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They will look at you weird. (On IOIs) (self.askTRP)

submitted by Heathcliff--

This post may be obvious to some, but it'll be useful for some newbies on their journey. I sure wish someone had mentioned something like this to me a while back.

I got hot, but didn't realize it for a long time.

It takes a while to get hot. It won't happen overnight. It will come in stages. If you're lifting (like you should be), you won't really notice the change in your body, as you're constantly scrutinizing yourself in the mirror. You'll always be forever small.

However, friends and family will. One day someone you haven't seen in a while will come up to you and say something like "wow you've really changed!" or "you lost a lot of weight dude well done" or "damn your arms got huge have you been working out?". You'll be genuinely surprised; you won't have noticed the drastic changes because you'll be so focused on the increments.

And girls will treat you better. I guarantee you. Women might "accidentally" touch you more, they will look at you different, they may hug you when greeting when they've never done that before.

While working out presents incremental changes; fixing your style or haircut will be a drastic change that people are sure to notice straight away. Some may even make fun of you for it at first. Don't stress too much about it; a lot of people are weirded out and uncomfortable with drastic change. They have this mental image in their heads that they've assigned to you, a caricature per se, and when you break through that image and present yourself as something different, their reality is flipped on it's head and they may be a bit befuddled at first. That's normal, they quickly acclimatize again and get used to the new you. It happens quicker than you think. Don't stress too much about it.

But the real clincher is the looks you get from women. They check you out. All the time. All the hot guys on this sub know what I mean. If you don't know what I mean, it's because you haven't reached that stage of attractive yet. I'm going to explain what happened to me:


Even though I've been lifting for at least a year now, I'm still pretty slim. The combination of doing a strength program over hypertrophy, being tall, not eating enough consistently and having an albatross wingspan means my skinny arms and weak chest really give away how beta I used to be. I can still be bigger, and that's the plan.

However, I fixed my posture. I started dressing for my age (Don't just dress well. Dress for your age). I got a decent haircut and I take care of my hair properly. I got some shades that suit the shape of my face. I started shaving every day. I wear cologne.

One day I was commuting to school and I noticed a woman was giving me a weird look. When I saw her looking at me she snapped away. I was confused. Was there something on my face. Did I have a booger? Did I just look weird?

Being beta and self conscious I went to the bathrooms before my lecture to make sure there wasn't anything in my teeth or whatever.

On the way back, some teenage girls kept glancing at me. One turned around to look and I caught her. Her friends laughed.

I went home that day dejected, were those girls making fun of me because I looked stupid?

The next day I was sitting on the train and some HB7 looks at me. Then looks away. Then looks again. She was staring me down angrily. I remember thinking "what's this bitches problem".

Another did the same thing, fixed her hair when I met eyes with her. I looked away quickly. "Damn, can't have her thinking that I'm stare-raping her".

This kept happening, for a long time. I seriously went at least a few months wondering why all these women were looking at me weird on my commute to and from school. Why did they keep staring at me? Maybe I just had a fucked up face. Maybe I dressed weird? Smelt weird? Gave off a weird vibe? I was so used to being that weird nerd kid that I assumed every time someone looked at me they were making fun of me.

And then one day I had a pretty obvious eye opener. A very effeminate camp man stared me down on the tube. He wasn't even shy about it. When I looked at him again, he smiled.

"Why did he smile?". I realized he was the first man I'd found who was looking at me with those weird "scared" eyes that all the girls were giving me. I thought I was scaring those girls cos I looked, acted or smelt weird.

But no other men were staring me down on the train. I couldn't remember a single time a man looked at me weird on the tube like the way the women were. If I looked, acted or smelt weird, surely I'd be getting death stares from all genders?

And bam, that's when I realised. Maybe they're checking me out.


The "imposter syndrome" post recently got me to write this up, because really, that's what I was feeling. I couldn't for the life of me notice that I was being checked out, because I never considered myself hot. I never even realized that I'd GOT hot; but of course it had to happen eventually. I was actively working on improving my appearance after all. I just never really internalized that at one stage I actually would reach "attractive". Eventually I was going to get to a stage where random strangers on the street were going to check me out. I just hadn't realized I'd hit that stage.

And from there all the previous encounters with women on the train made sense to me. They were all checking me out.

"No way", I thought. "There's no way they can be that blatant".

And then I started looking out for it. They do it ALL the time. On the train, at the library, at the coffeeshop. Women check me out CONSTANTLY now. I couldn't believe it. I've never had this much attention from random women before in my life. I've never been validated so much by strangers. Is this what it's like to be a pretty girl?

Once I started noticing it, I learnt to look out for it, and now I notice it more. On every commute I take there will be at least 3 or 4 women who give me the eye. They look at me, look away, and then look at me again. This is an IOI.

If they touch or fix their clothes or hair straight after seeing you, it means they want your dick. Almost certainly. A woman who notices an attractive guy will almost straight away groom herself to ensure she's looking at her prettiest. If you see a girl across the bar/cafe or whatever fix her hair after looking at you, you have been given a free pass to approach. I have never been had a rejected approach after hitting on a girl who fixed her hair after staring me down.

I know it's a sure thing because I realized I did it to. If I saw a hot girl I'd fix my hair quick while she wasn't looking. Women are the same.

I read in a comment on here a while back that if you catch eyes with a girl, don't be the first to look away. It's true. If you look away first it signals how beta you are. In almost all cases the girl will look away first. Some snap straight away. If she stares you down and you end up playing chicken it means you've got a feisty one.

If she looks away and then looks back at you and your eyes are still firmly locked on her, she will melt. It's a sure technique to framing yourself as alpha before you even open your mouth. You know what you want and you're looking at it, you won't look away because you're scared of her. She'll notice you checking her out and her panties will wet.


So, for those guys out there that are getting stared down; you're getting IOIs. If a girl you're checking out sees you and fixes her hair or clothes. You're getting IOIs. If she looks at you, looks away and then looks back at you, you're getting IOIs.

And no matter how you hamster it away to your beta self, it's becuase she thinks you're hot. You might not think so, you might still see an ugly nerd in the mirror, but the women who are checking you out don't. Don't let imposter syndrome stop you from apporaching girls that are very obviously sending you cues; you're wasting oppurtunities. Use these obvious cues to break through approach anxiety; these girls are bascially begging you to talk to them.

Or you could just have something on your face.

Lessons Learned

  • You will become attractive before you yourself realize you've done so

  • If women are staring at you in public places, you're being checked out. Even if you don't think so.

  • If you're being checked out, it's becuase you're hot. Even if you don't think so.

  • Women who groom themselves after seeing you are sending IOIs

  • Never be the first to look away when you look eyes with a girl

  • If she's constantly looking at you don't waste the opportunity and go fucking talk to her


[–]1jcromero 85 points86 points  (21 children)

Real talk, real IOIs are often WAY more subtle than you'd expect.

  • Instead of staring at you, a girl will desperately try NOT to make eye contact. She's so nervous and filled with attraction she simultaneously wants and yet dreads your attention

  • Girls negging guys. This is usually a sign of an older woman that's been banged out by alphas and has lost or just lacks a lot of her socialization skills.

  • Women and gay men will touch you WAY more. Like they get more physically aggressive and invade your personal space.

  • The weirdest thing that happens when you become attractive is that many women won't be your friend anymore. They're no longer interested in you for moral support; they have other beta males to do that. Weirdly, women will respect your time and energy more. This is because they're trying to lay you. However women get discouraged SUPER quickly, so you have to either move super quick or super slow.

[–]_the_shape_ 29 points30 points  (3 children)

The weirdest thing that happens when you become attractive is that many women won't be your friend anymore. They're no longer interested in you for moral support; they have other beta males to do that. Weirdly, women will respect your time and energy more. This is because they're trying to lay you. However women get discouraged SUPER quickly, so you have to either move super quick or super slow.

Great point, and one caveat to keep in mind is the old saying: "hell hath no fury like a scorned woman".

Women do not typically handle rejection well, especially the higher they appraise themselves. If she thinks highly of herself (i.e. Borderline to full-blown narcissist), outright offers you her pussy, and you friendzone her - hah! Prepare yourself for the reckoning..

[–]Heathcliff-- 18 points18 points [recovered]

There was this one girl who was into me and I had no idea. No idea at all. She was hanging out with me, sending me IOIs, making it super obvious. I didn't see it. I thought she was being super friendly.

One day on the bus to a club while we were all drunk she cussed me out hard in front of all our friends. Screaming at me "I hate you I hate you I hate you".

I had no idea why she was doing this. Still even after that, it took me months to realise "damn, she liked me. Fuck".

Girls get super angry when they're rejected. Guys are too stupid to notice hints.

[–]LexaBinsr 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Meh. I'd say you dodged a bullet if she acted so psychotic.

[–]RamboDonkey 17 points17 points [recovered]

I agree with this. Women will usually play their cards fairly close to their chest when they do not know you well. If unknown women are making extended eye contact from afar, without really trying to hide it, then you are encroaching upon chad territory. What will often happen instead, is that women in your social circle will begin to just be around you a lot, and drop vague hints, along with perhaps the occasional overt signal. They may start doing favours for you, or suddenly shit test you here and there. IOIs are useful, but just be mindful that women can be very cat-and-mouse about this sort of thing. The women that make solid eye contact from the outset, interspersed with preening behaviours, probably like you so much that you don't even particularly need game.

I don't agree on the friendship part though. I find that women who are not interested will often not proactively make efforts to be friends with you. Women who have a medium level of interest may proactively creep into your friend zone in some ways, perhaps sizing you up. Women with high interest will send the more obvious signals early on, such as sly touching or eye gazing.

[–]2Overkillengine 11 points12 points  (0 children)

What will often happen instead, is that women in your social circle will begin to just be around you a lot

And they will fucking jump on any excuse to be alone with you. The amount of plausible deniability she will require will also decrease the more she wants you.

[–]MAWL_SC 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Women won't be your friend...

This struck me, I've noticed this and wondered why women will be very respectful and complimentary and then not even respond to simple friendly gestures.

Also, the fickleness of female attraction is incredible. So many times I have not been in a position to return female advances due to circumstances or other variables. That attraction turns to disdain, apathy, and even loathing with blinding speed.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You attack their ego and destroy their currency. It’s obviously not appreciated. This is only in specific circumstances where they actually show that they’re mad, most time they’ll hamster it away "he’s probably gay" etc.

[–]1jcromero 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well, consider how hurt you've felt when a girl rejected you. Girls are just way more likely to feel rejected just out of regular female insecurity. It's fairly immature. The best remediation is just to start gaming them slowly.

[–]vorverk 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Haha. At social gatherings my ex would literally RUN to the orbiters she was not attracted to. Giving them hugs, kisses, even tease them with rubbing her boobs against them (by accident) and stuff like that. Then when a guy that she was attracted to came close, she completely froze up. Total black out. She couldn't get one word out of her mouth.
So funny, I see a variation of this all the time now. Girl I know is attracted to me hugs everyone around when she comes to a social gathering, but me.

[–]Pumptodump 2 points3 points  (1 child)

What I really need to know is how do I differentiate between "girls trying not to give eye contact" cause they are shy and like you or "girls that are avoiding eye contact cause they think you're a creep and want you to stop looking at them!!??

[–]1jcromero 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Women biologically have a huge peripheral range of eyesight. Typically if they like you they'll keep you in their peripheral line of sight.

If they don't like you they'll usually turn away from you completely, and have very closed off body language.

Also, here's a crib sheet of eye contact rules.

[–]Snufek 194 points195 points  (34 children)

So, for those guys out there that are getting stared down; you're getting IOIs.

Damn this swoleshaming, makes life sooo difficult.

[–]TomFoo 51 points52 points  (33 children)

watch out for them bitches on r / nice girls and r / legbeards

[–]ioncehadsexinapool 7 points8 points  (31 children)

Will lifting naturally decrease body fat? Or should I take care of that first before I start lifting?

[–]_fappycamper 57 points58 points  (1 child)

Start lifting right away. Don't wait because you will wish you have started sooner.

[–]roflrazz 77 points78 points  (0 children)

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."

  • Chinese Proverb

[–]ACE-JHN 18 points19 points  (6 children)

eat calorie deficit while lifting. If you are a noob/haven't trained consistently for a long time. You will get bigger while getting leaner.

Find maintenance calories reduce calories by 300-500 lift 3-5x a week. PROFIT !!!

[–]Luckyluke23 2 points3 points  (5 children)

i lift like 3 times a week now, I also do cardio some times too ( just for fun really)

say i eat 2.5k calories now, if i drop that down to say 1.8 - 2k would that help? i've been going like 6 months now and I've had no weight change ( though i know i need to work on my diet)

[–]ACE-JHN 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It might help but tracking is the only way to find out. weigh yourself everyday for a week while eating those calories then take the average of 7 days. To keep losing weight either increase activity or decrease calories. I suggest reading some stuff by eric helms and the 3dmj team. I know a lot of info can be found for free online, but the muscle and nutrition pyramid books have been a godsend, literally answered all my questions. Now its all about applying (much easier knowing that i am going in the right direction). Check out the New rules of lifting - 6 moves, my friend plays football and he gained a lot of size and strength following that, my other friend is into oldschool routines and he did the body for life routine from the book and got insane results in a year lost 50 lbs and then lean bulked for 15 lbs. I am on the back to fit program because i am coming from numerous injuries to my knee and shoulder. This was a rant, but i just love this fitness shit now.

[–]Thevoleman 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Calories in, calories out. You're just not tracking your diet, if you do and you're actually at a 500 cal deficit, you will lose weight.

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