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FitnessGuide for weight loss (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Zahlixx2

Background:

This first section can be skipped but is included so you know that I actually know what I am talking about. This is not some guy who lost a couple of pounds or read some fitness blogs about weight loss.

Everyone knows the BMI scale:

  • <18.5 = Underweight
  • 18.5 - 25 = Normal weight
  • >25 = Overweight

What most people don't know is that there are further categories for being overweight

  • 25 - 30 = Overweight
  • 30 - 35 = Obese Class I (Moderately obese)
  • 35 - 40 = Obese Class II (Severely obese)
  • >40 = Obese Class III (Very severely obese)

I was at a BMI of 47. Following the logic of the system above, they would have to invent an additional 45-50 category to file me under. I was fucked far worse than 99 % of you people reading this. Ironically, I have a degree in food technology and should have put my knowledge to better use at the time. Hindsight is always 20:20.

It took me almost 2 years to lose approx. 200 lbs. I lost all that weight through discipline and self control. No gastric bypass, pills or "other remedies". Since then I've had 3 surgeries to remove excess skin. As a side gig I started coaching other "hopeless cases" how to lose weight.

If you feel like you need a coach after reading this post, hit me up via PM.

Intro:

Invest the next 15 minutes into reading and understanding what I am writing here and you will be in control of your body weight for the rest of your entire life.

Weight loss is very much like TRP. The underlying mechanics are dead simple but often covered under layers of bullshit that society has taught you. Weight loss is all about understanding the rules of the system and then creating an approach suitable for your life that guarantees success without getting distracted by minor details.

In this post I will cover the following areas:

  • Calories
  • Macro nutrients
  • Micro nutrients
  • The mechanics of weight loss
  • How to create a deficit
  • On exercising
  • On plateaus
  • Dietary restrictions
  • Recommended macro splits
  • Myths, broscience and snakeoil
  • Final words of wisdom

Calories:

A calorie is a measurement of energy. It is the amount of energy that is needed to heat up 1 g of water by 1 °C (from 19.5 to 20.5 °C). Almost all food will be labeled with kcal. 1 kcal = 1000 calories. It is basically an outdated unit for Joule. Just like degrees Fahrenheit or inches and feet, the unit is stubborn to replace.

For the sake of an easy approach we will do what society does and stick to calories in this post. We will also call 1 kcal a calorie.

Like a car, your body needs fuel. That fuel comes in the form of calories. Food = Fuel.

Macro nutrients:

Calories can be consumed via the 3 sources:

  • Protein = 4 kcal/g
  • Carbohydrates = 4 kcal/g
  • Fat = 9 kcal/g

There is also 1 additional source I like to label "moron calorie" as it is the most pointless of all:

  • Alcohol = 7 kcal/g

This will be covered under the dietary restrictions section as well but I want to make sure that people understand that the 3 main sources (protein, carbohydrates, fat) are all relevant and trying to cut out any single one of those three is not a good long term strategy. If possible you should always aim for a balanced mix of the three. Alcohol is pretty much useless and should be avoided if possible.

Micro nutrients:

This section will simply be ignored for the sake of complexity and usefulness. There are a million supplement companies out there trying to sell you snakeoil pills. They will claim to

  • “raise your metabolism”
  • “make your fat burn faster”
  • “ keep you healthy” (whatever that is supposed to mean)

Our goal here is weightloss. Eat plenty of veggies and some fruits and you are good to go. Trying optimize micro nutrients during weight loss is like trying to paint the sails of a boat that is currently drowning. You are wasting time and energy on something that will not help you achieve your goal.

The mechanics of weight loss:

Society convinced you that you are some special snowflake but that is a lie. Your body is a stupid meat machine and it runs on fuel. People are not born with all sorts of different metabolisms (the shitty genetics died thousands of years ago, the human body is quite efficient).

Your body burns a certain amount of calories every day. And you are feeding it a certain amount of calories every day.

Picture it like a water reservoir with water coming in at the top and water flowing out at the bottom. The water flowing out at the bottom is the energy it takes you to be alive, walk around and breathe. The water coming in at the top represents what you are eating.

If there is more water coming in that flowing out – the reservoir get heavier (you gain weight)

If there is less water coming in that flowing out – the reservoir gets lighter (you lose weight)

If there is an equivalent amount of water coming in and flowing out – the reservoir stays the same (maintenance of weight)

This is basically it. That is the entire secret of weight loss: THE GOLDEN RULE

This is the one and only rule that has to be obeyed at all cost. You can do pretty much anything you want during weight loss except break the system described above.

If you keep track of everything (literally everything!) you eat it is pretty straight forward to know how much went in. Now comes the tricky part. How much went out and how much has to go out in order to lose how much weight?

In order to lose 1 kg of weight (water, fat and muscle) you will have to create a deficit of 7000 kcal. It does not matter how long it takes you to create this 7000 kcal deficit. If it takes you 2 weeks you will have lost 1 kg during those 2 weeks. If it takes you a year, you will have lost 1 kg durning that year. The speed if up to you.

To find out how much energy your body is burning you will use this calculator, enter your data, press the calculate button and note down your sedentary TDEE.

What does TDEE stand for? It means total daily energy expenditure and means the amount of energy it takes for you to be alive on a normal day (just walking around, standing, sitting, breathing and masturbating to transsexual midget porn).

How to create a deficit:

Summary of what we have learned so far in the previous section:

  • 7000 kcal deficit = 1 kg of weight lost
  • Counting your calories to know how much goes in
  • Calculating your TDEE to know how much goes out

Putting it all together:

Lets say your TDEE is 2500 kcal/day and you are willing to eat 500 kcal less than that; you would lose 2 kg/month (28 days * 500 kcal = 14000 kcal deficit = 2 kg lost). This may not sound like a whole lot but do this for a year and you will lose 24 kg (thats 52.8 freedom units!).

Over time you will have to recalculate your TDEE (I recommend maybe one a month). Because you keep losing weight, you are carrying around less weight with you and in turn you need less energy to go through the day.

The best rule is to start cooking your own food so you have complete control over your caloric intake. Only put food in your mouth once you have logged it. If you haven’t logged it, don’t eat it. If you are not sure how many calories it has – don’t eat it.

Weigh yourself naked daily in the morning after hitting the toilet. Not your weight down in a excel sheet. Because your weight will always fluctuate it is better to see a long term trend than simply comparing your weight today, to the weight of yesterday. If you are losing 2 kg in a month, that means drinking 1 Liter of water before weighing yourself can make it look like there wasn't any progress for 2 weeks.

Rule of thumb:

Guys: do not eat less than 1600 kcal/day for extended periods of times

Girls: do not eat less than 1200 kcal/day for extended periods of times

On exercising:

Do not add the calories you’ve burnt while exercising to your TDEE. People heavily overestimate how much they exercise and underestimate how much they ate. Treat working out as a bonus and leave it at that.

Weight loss is about 90 % diet (if not more). You could literally sit around the house all day and lose weight. You will always lose weight in the form of water, fat and muscle. If you want to reduce the loss of muscle mass you should will have to start doing resistance training. Don’t expect to build amazing muscles during your weight loss. You might make some noob gains but that is about it. Your body is already in a deficit (crisis mode) so it won’t spend precious resources on building additional muscles, it is going to be busy as hell maintaining what few muscles you’ve got.

On plateaus:

They happen for several reasons:

  • you calculated your TDEE wrong - double check it
  • you added exercise calories to your TDEE - I told you that you shouldn't
  • you just guessed the calories of food or didn't log everything - obvious fix

Sometimes you hit a plateau despite doing everything right. It happened to me once for almost 3 weeks. Nothing happened on the scale. I double and triple checked everything - I did everything right. Then one night I have to get up 4 times to take a leak and the next day I am almost 3.5 kg lighter. Plateau shattered in one night.

I read a couple of studies on the phenomenon and they found that this regularly happens with people losing a lot of weight and then suddenly (often after a big meal) they drop a serious amount of water weight. The theory behind it was that the fat cells are emptied by the body and filled with water in case the body wants to quickly restock the fat cells. A big meal comes and the body thinks it has a caloric surplus, empties out the water but ends up in a caloric deficit again. The fat cells are not filled with water again and stay empty. Theory sounded nice but currently there is no confirmed explanation for these kinds of plateaus. This phenomenon later got hijacked by the HAES movement and fat activists to prove that if you eat to little you will stop losing weight. They obviously never read the study because it clearly contradicts everything they stand for.

Dietary restrictions:

Every couple of years we get a new dietary trend. For example: in the 90s everyone was afraid of fat because “fat makes you fat”. Then we found out that fat is actually very healthy and the body needs it for cell regeneration and hormone production. Currently carbohydrates are considered bad so people went from being afraid of fats to being afraid of carbohydrates. The following list contains the food trends that are (currently) all the rage:

  • Keto (I will get a whole lot of shit from TRP for messing with our poster child diet system!)
  • Paleo
  • Low carb / No carb (these are closely tied to paleo)
  • Eating clean (get someone to try and define what that is and see how it is a load of BS)
  • Intermittent fasting (another TRP favourite!)
  • Gluten free (pointless unless you are literally – diagnosed – to be allergic)
  • No processed foods
  • BARF (bones and raw flesh – just kidding, that is a dietary form for dogs. But you never know)

You will be able to lose weight with any of the above systems (even BARF!) but not because that system has any particular advantage over any of the others but because you accidentally followed the golden rule of weight loss. We think back to the section “ The mechanics of weight loss” further up this post. In order to lose weight you will have to consume fewer calories than you are burning. That is the one and only rule that you need to follow to lose weight.

You can practice any of the dietary restrictions above and not lose a single gram if you are breaking the golden rule. You can however ignore every single one of those dietary restrictions and lose weight with ease by following the golden rule.

Think of the caloric deficit that you need to create as a distance that you need to travel. Your daily deficit is your speed of motion. The dietary restrictions above are the brand of cars that you can use to get from point A to B. The kind of car does not matter to get from point A to B. You can stand still in a Porsche and be faster crawling backwards on your hands and feet.

If you find it easier to stay within your daily calories by following any of those dietary restrictions feel free to do so. Just know that cutting out carbs will not make you lose weight, creating a caloric deficit alone will do that.

Often times people crash their diets because the dietary restriction they picked is to restrictive. A person that loves dark chocolate and pasta dishes will be miserable on a keto diet. A baker trying to lose weight will be miserable on a gluten free diet. For most people, eating in moderation will not only be the system most easy to sustain. It will also be the system that teaches them the most about making their own food and utilizing that knowledge for the rest of their life.

Regardless of dietary system I stand by my advice to reduce alcohol at all costs. It is utterly pointless to say the least.

Recommended macro splits:

I recommend getting your calories in check as #1 priority. If you have successfully logged your calories for a month and feel comfortable taking the next step you can look into optimizing how you are dividing your daily calories into the three macro nutrients.

  • Eat 1.6 g protein per kg body weight (any more than that is proven to be pointless)
  • Go for at least 50 g of fats a day to be safe
  • The remaining calories you can consume in the form of carbohydrates

It does not matter if you are just 80% right with this, the daily calories are more important. But don’t make the mistake of going extended periods of time without any fat or protein (I had a minor hair shedding crisis during my weight loss because of that!)

Myths, broscience and snakeoil:

This is the section where I bitch and moan about shit that people say

  • starvation mode is a lie – you will not hold onto your calories more if you eat less
  • metabolisms do not come in all shapes and sizes
  • you are not big boned
  • women do not like dad bods
  • being under 20 % bodyfat is not risky
  • eating windows are technically pointless but OK if it makes it easier for you
  • eating clean is BS
  • organic is BS
  • non processed is BS
  • raw is BS
  • just about all supplements are BS if you eat veggies and fruits
  • Omega 3 / Fish oil is an OK supplement if you don’t eat a lot of fish
  • detox anything is BS
  • cleansing products are BS

Also those zero drinks are fucking amazing, got me over a couple of bad craving periods for sugary bullshit. Inb4 aspartame is dangerous: source needed, I work in food tech and search far and wide without finding a single compelling health related argument. You literally do not digest it. It just passes through you (making the entire worlds water supply slightly sweeter over time).

Final words of wisdom:

It takes about 2 months of iron discipline to set up this system for yourself and force yourself to count all your calories. After it has become your routine, you will get bored a little because it literally becomes a waiting game. You are just getting thinner and thinner. People will lose their minds thinking that you are some insane genius and it is literally just Tuesday for you with nothing special happening.

Recomendet subreddits:

  • loseit
  • fatlogic
  • fitness
  • mealprepping
  • eatcheapandhealthy

Losing weight has been the single greatest decision of my life. It took me over 3 years and 3 surgeries to get where I am today. If I where to be send back in time to the day before I started this journey.

I’d do it all again in heartbeat – my life has never been better


[–]Herdsengineers 151 points152 points  (31 children)

When I dropped a bunch of extra weight, I was amazed at how simple it was. I get people asking all the time and they want to start talking about a gazillion minor details and then get annoyed when I won't go there. Losing weight is really simple, it's the discipline to stick to how you change your eating for it that's really the part that isn't always easy.

And for the record, I did Keto and intermittent fasting. Dropped 50 lbs in 2 1/2 months. And staying on it, with some deviations for fruits/non-process carbs, has kept me trim and fit. At it's peak rate, I was dropping a pound a day. I never felt like I was eating a calorie deficit big enough to cause that, and I had more energy than I knew what to do with that got put into lifting. However, I also didn't track calories carefully. What I was doing was working and my pants got really, really loose and baggy until I replaced them with new stuff that fit. That was all the documentation I needed.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Keto is great because you feel so satiated even on a deficit. Before keto I tried just calorie restriction on a high carb-low fat diet and although I lost weight I was always fucking starving and thinking about food, meanwhile on keto I felt full and satisfied on the exact same caloric deficit.

[–]Magnum256 33 points34 points  (8 children)

I agree dude, keto is a life-changer. Some years back I was at my top weight in the high-200s and decided to make a change. After a bit of reading/research, keto looked appealing so I went for it. In less than 1 year I went from high-200s to about 175lbs, over 100lbs lost.

During that entire time I always had high energy, I barely ever felt tired, rarely felt hungry (once every few months I'd have a day where I felt insatiable, but most of the time I felt satiated), and like you, I never really counted calories/macros, I just ate when I was hungry. It was the easiest, most painless weight I have ever lost, really life changing.

Funny, the baggy pants thing was a real motivator for me too. After about 5 months I had to buy all new clothes since nothing I owned would stay around my waist anymore. 5 months later I again had to buy all new clothes for the same reason. The whole experience was really uplifting and a confidence booster. After I lost all that weight I really started lifting/exercising a lot more seriously as well and I can honestly say that the decision to go on keto changed my entire outlook on life, and with how relatively easy the experience was, it feels almost criminal.

[–]Herdsengineers 8 points9 points  (7 children)

I wouldn't believe it was possible if I hadn't experienced it. I started looking into the biology and metabolic chemistry of it all, and it actually makes sense once you understand the biological process of it. It's actually not related to caloric deficit, it's making your body run on fat, then your body realizes there's extra fat, and just burns through it. Lifting and fasting help, but aren't the centerpiece of how it works.

[–]fanturnedon 1 points1 points [recovered]

The sheer amount of people who believe what you just said is simply astonishing. You literally are denying basic thermodynamics. No diet can break the rules of physics. You will not lose weight unless you're in a deficit. I feel like I'm repeating what OP said, but the only reason keto works is because, fats being more satiating for longer periods of time and unable to cause spikes in insulin, it tricks your fat ass into eating less, less often. In other words, keto gets you on a deficit without you realizing it. That's all there is to it. The mystifying and cult like following behind the ketogenic diet is senseless. This coming from someone who eats very low carb due to IBS.

If I had to guess where the whole keto>thermodynamics myth originated I'd say its from people who can't fathom being on a deficit for they feel full and energized all day. Them, and ignorant brosciencers who kept eating at maintance but switched to keto and "OMFG brah I lost 6 pounds while at maintance and look ripped af yo" Yeah, that's water weight loss you're seeing.

[–]xrorox_rp 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Actually, you are also wrong.

What matter the most is insulin sensitivity. Where you are right, is that you can't be sensitive to insulin if you are eating like a pig.

What you eat, influence greatly how great your metabolism is running. So some ketoers are confused about their maintenance calories, because they are actually eating less shit. So their metabolism, is running faster than it was. So they have energy, and have a caloric deficit where they expected none.

Yes, you can loose weight by eating twinkies. But you will loose weight faster, if you are not deficient in magnesium like most people are (greatly impact IS) and particurlarly active people. That's exactly why OP told to fucking eat your veggies.

Eating balanced is healthier than Keto though. Keto is a bit like falling for the dark side, it is an easy route to become sensible to insulin again.

[–]fanturnedon 1 points1 points [recovered]

I've yet to see any proof ketogenic diets increase metabolic rate. We agree on the rest.

[–]xrorox_rp 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Magnesium deficiency is rare

No actually it is really widespread, some numbers for america : http://www.jigsawhealth.com/blog/magnesium-mineral-deficiency/

One example of magnesium linked to weight : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15855585 There are numerous studies about that. If I remember well, some found an improved insulin sensitivity in the order of 20-30%, just by fixing a deficiency.

I've yet to see any proof ketogenic diets increase metabolic rate.

You should look it the other way around, that's western diet that slowdown your organism. If you already have adequate intakes you may not see a difference.

Test alone can raise your metabolism : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1730811

[–]Bucky_Goldstein 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Keto is amazing, I'll throw in my two cents and I don't care if it's all the rage, it's been around in different variations for quite a while, but I dropped 55 lbs like nothing on it whole building a garage last summer.

Might not work for everyone, but worked well for me

[–]BurnoutRS 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Funny thing you might notice about those people is that the reason they want to go into detail about weight loss is because talking about it makes them feel good, like theyre planning to do something good for themselves. Which is great if they follow through, but a waste of your time if theyre just engaging in mental masturbation.

[–]rossiFan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Intermittent fasting is very effective in men. Should be used with caution.

[–]AGallopingMonkey 1 points1 points [recovered]

Bullllllllshitttttttt. You are going against all of the science in this post. There's no way you were losing 1lb per day. You know how many calories that is? 3500. You know what that means? You'd need a TDEE of greater than 3500 to be able to eat even a bite of food. Sorry, but no. You did not lose the weight that fast unless you were 600lbs to begin with. Fuck idc with your lying anecdotes.

[–]Bammer1386 13 points14 points  (0 children)

He needs to specify what kind of weight. If its fat loss, then you are right, theres no way someone is burning 1lb/day. It's likely that they didnt weigh themselves at a consistent time of day, and were simply assuming their daily +/- in weight was fat loss, when it could have been water weight or weight from undigested food.

[–]Eyiolf_the_Foul 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Except it’s not calorie weight, but water weight your body literally exhales most of from being in a caloric deficit-a pound a day for a couple weeks is super common then it levels out to calories in calories out

[–]Herdsengineers 3 points4 points  (9 children)

The multitude of people that experienced the same would disagree with you. There's a body chemistry change at work that causes the weight loss. You basically piss it out, if I understood the way the doctor explained it to me at my last physical. Hence why drinking a lot of water is key to Keto and making it work.

[–]AGallopingMonkey 1 points1 points [recovered]

Chemical changes from keto still obey the first law of thermodynamics. 50lbs in ~11 weeks is an average deficit of 2200 calories per day. That most people's TDEE.

Fat people just love thinking keto is their diet unicorn and other people exaggerate shit so they believe it. I totally believe it curbs hunger and makes cutting easy, but it definitely doesn't break calories in vs calories out.

[–]V_M 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah yeah don't diet below 1500 cal or whatever but I was eating things like a zero cal energy drink for breakfast, modest salad for lunch, and a single cooked quarter pounder for dinner quite often while not feeling particularly hungry due to the biochemical witchcraft of keto and my tdee plus exercise was quite a bit over 3000/day because I was NOT skinny at the time. 2200 tdee is almost skinny... that was not a health diet, but it was healthier than my previous low fat high carb diet that got me fat... I find it unlikely OP averaged that loss for months but I totally had a couple of five pound weeks in my very biggest days... It wasn't unpleasant or difficult after carb cravings wore off. Very strange experience not feeling full after eating a quarter pound patty as my only dinner but not feeling hungry or weak either.

[–]Herdsengineers -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Not disagreeing with you regarding conservation of energy and mass. I'm a licensed engineer by trade, have a rather good understanding of it actually.

That said, something had to happen to all that mass. It went away that quick. Now, maybe the body didn't burn it for energy, but it was metabolized for some reason and used for some process. Doctors and other experts disagree on exactly what, I've seen some say it's converted into something that is needed for burning energy, not used for energy itself. I forget the chemistry involved exactly. Others say the body just melts the fat and if it's not used as energy from the blood stream, it just gets pissed out. When I was in full ketosis, I couldn't drink enough. Was always thirsty and always pissing every 30 minutes.

I don't the answer as to what happens exactly, I just know that myself and a lot of other people have experienced the same effect of rapid weight loss that otherwise defies pure caloric considerations. That means there has to be something else going on metabolically in the body chemistry. And as I stated in a previous post, exactly what that something is - who gives a shit? As long as the results are flowing, why get caught up in the rest?

[–]fanturnedon 1 points1 points [recovered]

I've done ketosis dozens of times and you are simply full of it. You lose 10 pounds the first week because of water weight. After that initial spike in weight loss, you start cutting just as fast as any other deficit. It is just as predictable how much you'll lose a week if you do a controlled ketogenic cut. The only reason I do them is because keto gets you dry as fuck and its just so fun watching the definition slowly but surely coming in. The only difference is the curve in hunger.

I'm ranting here, but I think ya'll are just looking for something to believe in because for whatever reason some people can't seem to live in reality 100% and must mystify trivial things such as for example the laws of probability or, as some call it, "luck". Luck is that mystical force that either wants to help or fuck with you. Then it comes in its variation: Karma. Except these this are not real. We actually understand how luck works, but people still choose to believe in luck, karma, the universe having a will and what not. Blue pill as fuck. Just as a diet breaking the first rule of thermodynamics isn't real and believing of isn't only blatantly ignorant, but quite frankly ridiculous. I think in this subreddit that's all about harsh truths and improvement we should forever put an end to this massively spread misinformation.

[–]Herdsengineers -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

you're ranting like a PMS'ing woman. good job.

i relayed an experience. nothing more. why you're so emotional about it and willing to post such like his about it - where's your composure? get a grip dude.

[–]fanturnedon 1 points1 points [recovered]

> you're ranting like a PMS'ing woman. good job.

Alright. I'll try and be brief this time.

> i relayed an experience. nothing more

No you didn't. You pulled a bunch of bullshit right out your ass.

> Doctors and other experts disagree on exactly what, I've seen some say it's converted into something that is needed for burning energy, not used for energy itself. I forget the chemistry involved exactly. Others say the body just melts the fat and if it's not used as energy from the blood stream, it just gets pissed out

Literally no doctor says any of this

> I just know that myself and a lot of other people have experienced the same effect of rapid weight loss that otherwise defies pure caloric considerations. That means there has to be something else going on metabolically in the body chemistry

What it actually means, is that neither you nor the other "lot of people" know how to keep track of calories.

> I'm a licensed engineer by trade, have a rather good understanding of it actually.

Hey, this guy has an irrelevant degree, guess I take everything back.

There.

[–]Herdsengineers -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Okay. You're complete right. Have a nice life.

[–]scapeity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We are finding out we actually exhale it in converted co2 according to the last study I read.

(Sorry, nerd anecdotes)

[–]1AuspexAO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whether you're in camp keto or not, drinking water is absolutely a great idea. It's counterintuitive because drinking more water actually makes the body retain it less, so you won't bloat as much and being dehydrated will actually slow the metabolic process (because water is necessary for the renal system to function at full capacity).

[–]ReasonableCampaign 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was loosing a kilogram a day getting from 110 to 100 in 10 days so do not say that half of it is impossible.

[–]Luckyluke23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

this is how i've found it. i've gone from 106 to 102Kgs in the past few weeks. ( i didn't track how long)

all i have done is started eating less. and trying to eat less bread. ( some days i used to have 6 or more pieces a day. ) now i have a max of twice a week if that

i can't wait to make it under 100 and beyond!

[–][deleted] 147 points148 points  (1 child)

Very well done my brother. This is what is called being a man:

Thinking for yourself.

Figuring out the truth.

Accepting the truth.

Doing the hard work it requires.

Succeeding in life.

Helping other men.

God bless you.

[–]TheQuestore 1 points1 points [recovered]

Can the mods please sticky this.

It’s unbelievable how high your smv rises from losing bf% it’s almost exponential when you’re below 10 - 12%

[–]jimbad07 21 points22 points  (6 children)

it’s almost exponential

Agreed, it's like a backwards asymptote. In math, an asymptote is a line that decreases rapidly but never reaches zero. Start with 100 and keep reducing it by half into infinity. You'll end up with a very very small number, but it will never be less than zero.

The reverse of this describes SMV increase during weight loss. Go from 55% bodyfat to 45% bodyfat? Ok, great, you're much less likely to die, but your SMV will have barely budged. You're still dealing with those tiny numbers.

The impact of 45% to 35% will be much greater.

35% to 25% even greater still. You're average joe status now.

25% to 15% the increase is greater than all previous increases combined

It's exponential growth in SMV the leaner you get.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

This. I went to my high school prom this past weekend at ~ 18% bodyfat and as I'm new to TRP, parties, and game, I have yet to read a solid chunk of the sidebar or get a lot of real experience with girls. I still got a k-close and #-close with a hb6. There is hope for everyone.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I'm around 20% and feel like a complete fatass. I come here to hear hard truths and I don't want anyone pulling punches. I think at 20% things are already out of control. (Obviously that has to take trend into context too - if you spent the last decade at 25-30% then 20 is great). For men, iirc below 10% is the danger zone, I told myself 15% is where I want to be.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

By all means, I agree. I used to play football and I was fat as hell because I played on the offensive line, so 18% is down from around 27% at my heaviest, and I'm still not at my goal, but I'm as lean as I've been in high school. That leanness, some cool shit I've been doing (like interning for my local MLB team, working the NFL draft, etc.), my sharp suit (black on black with red accents), and outcome independence (I was going home to sleep because I had work the next day) got me that close, so I really can't pin it on one specific thing. That being said, it was my first real success with a girl and I'm happy about how it turned out. Thanks for the constructive criticism.

[–]derektwerd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think below 10% is fine but pretty difficult and hard to maintain. The actual danger zone for men is like below 3 or 4%.

Women have a much higher level for the danger zone. I don't remember exactly, 12% maybe.

Anyway if you can get to 15%, you should keep trying to get lower until 10 or 11% is probably enough for pretty solid looking abs.

[–]indigo_pirate 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Here to back up Intermittent Fasting. Changed my life; essentially reduces your feeding window. Allows you to enjoy a decent meal or 2 with plenty of macros for muscle and energy. I found it really easy to maintain 15hr fasts and for longer if I wanted to.

[–]lobo9474 16 points17 points  (5 children)

I would just like to add, as OP explains, you simply have to consume less than your maintenance calories. Everyone knows this, but why do people believe in stupid diet fads? Because being hungry is uncomfortable and they want an EASY solution. You are going to be hungry and are going to fantasize about food, if you cannot deal with that you will never lose fat.

Here are my tricks to cope with being hungry:

1) Black coffee

2) Sparkling water

3) Gum

4) Protein Fluff (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8t7u5mupS4)

I promise you when you get into the routine of cutting, losing weight becomes easier as you get used to being hungry for most of the day and learn to tune it out. The first 2-3 weeks are the hardest, but once you get over that you have crossed the hardest threshold. From then on, its really down to how much you hate your body and use it as a constant motivating tool to get shredded.

There really isn't that all that much to pay attention to when you are cutting and absolutely no need to be anal about micronutrients and exact macro's unless you are an elite athlete, just make sure you don't eat shit and get a good amount off all macros.

Edit:

5) More vegetables

6) Stay busy to distract yourself when you are hungry.

[–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

Black coffee is amazing (I highly recommend checking out the coffee subreddit). Freshly ground and brewed black coffee simply tastes amazing and has about 0 calories.

The Protein Fluff looks great, I will check that out! thanks for sharing

[–]thisishowiwrite 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Could we add "eat more vegetables" as the fifth tip? You can eat a shit ton of vegetables for minimal calories and get a whole load of vitamins and minerals out if them.

[–]party_dragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Somemore Very low-calorie foods that still pack a lot of taste:

7) cinnamon bark 8) coffees beans 9) hot cocoa (not hot chocolate - that one has added sugar) 10) sundried tomatoes 11) pickled ginger (like the one you eat with sushi)

[–]vikTheFirst 27 points28 points  (12 children)

Good job man, interesting post.

I just want to add that, as far as achieving the Golden rule, intermittent fasting is one of the best ways to go(second of course to counting and managing your calories).

I just stop eating at 6:00 pm sharp every day. Works like magic.

[–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

If it works for you, perfect.

Now imagine a person hitting an all you can eat buffet every day at 4 pm in order to stuff up before the 6 pm deadline.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I've noticed since doing IF that I absolutely cannot eat nearly as much in one sitting.

[–]vikTheFirst 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Ha ha right, though if you have a bussy lifestyle, (because you don't have time to count your calories) you probably don't have time to go to the buffet :)

[–]ToiletPaperPringles 0 points1 point  (5 children)

If someone is doing IF, should they eat then fast for let’s say 14 hours or fast and have small meals along the day? (1 or 2)

[–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

Read the post. It does not matter how often you eat. It matters how much you eat in total.

If I gave you two candy bars a day, do you think it makes a difference if you:

  • eat both at the same time?
  • eat one in the morning and the other one at night?

[–]ToiletPaperPringles 0 points1 point  (3 children)

So overall, eating less than your TDEE and checking every month to adapt to your new TDEE? Does it matter what you eat? Theoretically, if you eat chocolate bars and candy but it equals to less than your TDEE, you still lose weight?

[–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

Basically yes. Your body works like stupid Russian tank that will fuel off of anything. Eating only chocolate is obviously a stupid idea because it won't fill you up and you will be hungry and miserable all the time. Over an extended period of time of only eating chocolate, you might also encounter missing some minerals and vitamins. Luckily humans like you and me survived the ice ages under severe malnutrition and our bodies can put up with a shitload of torture.

If you want to lose 10 kg (22 freedom units) of fat and use the conservative 500 kcal/day deficit. You would be done after 5 months. I am not saying that eating nothing but chocolate for 5 months is a great idea but you would lose weight and survive. There are people who survived way shittier diets for longer out there.

There will be an experimenting phase where you will make mistakes - go hungry and learn from it the next day. After a while you will have figured out what combination of food will keep you sane and filled up.

[–]ToiletPaperPringles 1 point2 points  (1 child)

One last question, what’s a freedom unit? (It’s probably a country thing) and thanks for the post, it’s probably the most informant weight loss post I’ve read.

[–]xXMillhouseXx 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Counting calories generally doesn’t work. Look at all the contestants on Biggest Loser. Over 90% gain the weight back.

Counting calories is actually detrimental to weight loss because it does nothing with the hormones that control where food goes in the body

Insulin tells the body to store fat. Grehlin is a satiety hormone that makes one feel fuller.

In fasting, insulin goes way down and our bodies respond by dipping into our fat stores.

In contrast to counting calories, which provokes an insulin rise every time we eat. So if we eat three squares a day, we are spiking insulin 3 times a day and it generally takes two hours to return to baseline

So its not what you eat. But when. Just my two cents.

[–]whitepois0n 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Sorry mate, that stuffs bullshit.

"I’d note, tangentially and I’ll come back to this below, that there is no data in humans that skipping a single meal or even a day’s worth of meals does anything to metabolic rate. Human metabolism simply doesn’t operate that quickly and various research into both fasting and intermittent fasting show, if anything, a slight (~5% or so) increase in metabolic rate during the initial period of fasting. The idea that skipping breakfast or a single meal slows metabolic rate or induces a starvation response is simply nonsensical."

https://bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/meal-frequency-and-energy-balance-research-review.html/

Bellisle F et. al. Meal frequency and energy balance. Br J Nutr. (1997) 77 (Suppl 1):S57-70.

[–]explorer1357 10 points11 points  (1 child)

OP I 100% agree with you, i went through all the comments but I think youre right, everyone is gonna have thier own opinion.

[–]theBaronDe 1 points1 points [recovered]

Eating windows sounds really dangerous, with all that broken glass and shit.

[–]thisishowiwrite 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Don't knock it til you try it. I lost 50lb because I could only drink blended vegetables for months after a single day of eating windows.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You only eat the sill, dumbass.

[–]eccentricrealist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They're sugar windows like in Hollywood

[–]huhub 9 points10 points  (7 children)

Could you extend the "do not eat less than 1600 kcal/day for extended periods of times" statement please? Are there any researches on that number?

[–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

At that point it will become tricky to get your daily protein and fat needs met.

To all those that recommend extended water fasting: just google "fasting + hair loss" have fun

No one will be able to back up those numbers with a calculation of sorts. I spoke to multiple doctors during my weight loss and got answers for men ranging between 1400 to 1800 kcal. Out of curiosity (working in the field) I always asked for women as well and it was always men -400 kcal. Obviously this does not include height, activity or age. It is a good reference point though and should not be taken lightly. If you want to go lower than those marks for an extended period of time you should consult with your doctor (not some woo woo dietitian).

I spend an extended period of time on 1200 and started losing my hair because there wasn't enough protein and fat in my diet. That's what you get for pushing the limits.

[–]1AuspexAO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let's math a bit, bro. I'll make it all clear.

Let's use me: 6'2" 190 lbs 39 years old

My basal metabolic rate (the amount of calories my body eats at complete rest) is 1925. I know that number by heart now, but you can calculate it using a BMR calculator online.

So I can eat 1925 calories a day and stay at 190 lbs. If I eat less I will lose weight. Now we need to apply the Harris Benedict Formula to figure out how much our daily exercise will effect calorie loss. I do "moderate" so my modifier is 1.55 leading to a total needed calorie count of 2983.

That's about 3k calories a day for a healthy RP man of 40 doing his cardio HT training and lifting. It should be noted that even though I'm pretty active I RARELY eat that many cals. I tend to stick closer to 2500. Now you know the basics, but where does 1600 limit come from? Let's see.

Ok, now let's take me at my fattest and crunch the numbers:

6'2" 387 pounds and 33 years old

  1. If I'm working out that's 4949/day. If I want to lose two pounds a week I need to dock myself at least 7000/calories a week (and when you're that fat, you should be doing about 3 a week for a little bit). That's 1949 a day now. 1949 a day for a giant fat man, but once you start getting down you're definitely gonna need more than 1600+ to function. Otherwise your body is going to be pretty fucked. It's eat your muscles, it'll start decreasing system efficiency and maybe even promoting renal failure.

Just don't dip under 1600 a day (when exercising) for too long. You can do lower if you're not exercising (like I wasn't when I was 387lbs), but you ideally should be exercising instead of just eating a starvation diet.

[–]TheeEmperor 1 points1 points [recovered]

BMI of 37 here. Thank you for this post. Ive got to cook for myself this summer and this is a huge help

[–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

  • log your food
  • watch what you eat
  • get good at cooking (spices make all the difference and don't add calories)

best of luck!

[–]TheeEmperor 1 points1 points [recovered]

What is your opinion of plans like Blue apron? Is it possible to construct a good diet with delivery services?

[–]LarrySellerz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

stop being a cuck and learn how to buy healthy food

[–]party_dragon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Figure out some tasty, quick-to-cook, healthy and low-calorie meals then cook those over and over again.

[–]Aggressive_Beta 6 points7 points  (2 children)

BMI is not as good of an indicator of health as body fat percentage is. BMI tends to underestimate how fat people are in a given population.

So if one doesn’t lift regularly, they’re probably fatter than what BMI says they are.

[–]kankouillotte 1 point2 points  (1 child)

yep, BMI is pretty much always wrong. Fat is low density, so for someone who doesn't exercise, has practically no muscle, your BMI will say you're OK but you're really not, you're a fat slob.

Inversely if you're dry, bf below 15%, exercice every day or every other day and consequently have muscles, you can easily get a BMI over 25, and be "overweight". You don't even need to go lift weights for that ! Just about any sports will do, while having a healthy diet with enough proteins.

We should just stop using BMI as a metric, it doesnt mean shit, and if a mirror can't tell you whether you're fat or not, nothing will

[–]derektwerd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree, my BMI was at 25.2 a couple of weeks ago and I am absolutely not fat. Yes, I have a few extra pounds from my 3 weeks vacation. But even when at about 11 or 12% body fat (not measured, just a guesstimate) with an (almost) 6 pack I'm at about 24.5 on the BMI scale.

Edit: 23.6 BMI

[–]GodOfDinosaurs 40 points41 points  (9 children)

Good post, 2 points I'd like to make:

  1. Micronutrients aren't essential to weight loss, but they are essential to health. I understand that's not the focus of this post, but it's dangerous to under-emphasize them to the degree you have here.

  2. You recommend 1.6g protein per lbs of bodyweight. This is actually way above what lifters need. 1-1.1g is sufficient while cutting, and .8-.9g while bulking. In a deficit, micronutrients always come at the expense at one another, and 1.6g protein per lbs leaves very little room for the necessary carbs and fat.

Other than that, nice job.

[–]Jaegerss 54 points55 points  (5 children)

  1. You recommend 1.6g protein per lbs of bodyweight.

Per kg of bodyweight, wich puts the number near the .8 you described.

[–]GodOfDinosaurs 26 points27 points  (1 child)

Oh, you're right. My fault

[–]frooschnate 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Made the same mistake. I was already braining how the hell I was supposed to fit 288gr of protein in my diet.

[–]archetypicalman 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Per kg of current bodyweight or ideal/lean body weight?

[–]Jaegerss 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Per kg of actual current bodyweight, including muscle, fat, etc.

[–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

If you eat a balanced diet including plenty of vegetables (low calories and filling) and the occasional fruit during your weight loss you will have no problem with micro nutrients.

People overemphasize their importance and get lost in a jungle of micro optimization and supplements while not paying proper attention to their caloric deficit.

If you don't like eating fish go for Omega3/Fish oil pills. If you need the peace of mind you can take a multi vitamin to make some expensive pee.

[–]thisishowiwrite 2 points3 points  (0 children)

2000mg is 10 calories. The benefits are awesome - mental and physical in a little capsule. Everyone should be taking fish oil every day.

[–]bkrugby78 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is useful as it explains a lot of things that are complex in a simplified manner.

[–]warthundersfw 4 points5 points  (3 children)

How much do those surgeries cost? Who do you go to for that?

For veggies I eat pretty much 95% broccoli and carrots. Any nutrients I should be concerned about? I eat a lot of citrus, PB, chicken, fish.

I’ve lost much weight and life is good being good looking. I want to push harder into the getting approached by girls zone. I’m capable of it

[–]1AuspexAO 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Mine came to about $15,000 (USD) all told. I was "lucky" because most of my fat was in my gut and upper thighs so I didn't need arm surgery, lower legs, etc. Those were still nice and elastic. Maybe TMI, but if you carry a lot of fat near your penis (like a fat pad around your groin), your weight loss will buy you back a ton of dick. That's a nice ego boost on top of the added SMV.

[–]AnkTRP 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Enter your days consumption into CronoMeter.

Unlike MyFitnessPal, it calculates your micros too. It'll tell you if you're deficit in any micro-nutrients.

[–]Piediver 3 points4 points  (1 child)

You don’t paint sailboat sails.

[–]mala_madre 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Great post, only want to comment on beginner gains. I think you can build an noticable mount of muscle as a beginner while cutting. Not as little as you make it seem

[–]thesexychicken 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Epic post. well done and greatly motivating. Thank you!

[–]ThePhilaDood 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Mods please sticky this as it is the most comprehensive, detailed and accurate guide on weight loss this thread has.

[–]otter6461a 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Huh. I’m not “diagnosed” to be celiac, so I guess my avoiding gluten is “pointless.”

Oh except I had diarrhea 10-15 times a day, constant migraines and joint pain, bloating and inflammation when I ate it. Also I lost 50 pounds effortlessly when I stopped eating it, and all my other symptoms went away. Pretty “pointless.”

Reddit is so damn reductionistic. If you CAN eat gluten, I say go for it, but the idea that you’re a fraud if you don’t have a doctor’s permission is too “black and white” a way to live.

[–]comcain 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Jordan Peterson also reports that sticking to meat and green veggies cured various strange autoimmune disorders in both himself and his daughter.

[–]Memus_Vult 5 points6 points  (1 child)

It's probably too late, but I think it's worth adding a few things, because some of its technically correct without being functionally useful, other bits are functionally correct without being technically true.

  1. All calories are made equal

The calorie count is determined by burning the food and seeing how much energy is released. It does not account for the energy required to metabolise the food, nor the amount which passes through the digestive system undigested. This only really matters if you're trying to measure calories to 3s.f.

  1. Starvation mode doesn't exist

Yes it does, but most people never go into it. The fasted state is what happens when you haven't fed at all for around 12-24hrs and insulin levels drop to almost 0. The body starts using ketoacids for fuel and the remaining glucose is reserved for the brain and red blood cells. Eventually the brain surfaces to ketoacids as RBCs need the last of the glucose ( for which the liver is busy plundering protein as it can make very little from fat).

The response is that the most fuel intense tissue in the body (the brain) starts shutting parts down in order to conserve fuel. The person becomes lethargic, slow of thought and clumsy. In this way, energy is conserved.

When fat activists really about starvation mode they think that feeling hungry is a sign of it even if they're eating 4500 calories. But as I point out below, hunger isn't a great sign of inadequate intake, and you can lose weight without feeling hungry.

  1. Type of food doesn't matter

It doesn't matter if you're strict, but different types of food affect your satiety differently. Important hormones to remember are leptin and cholecystokinin, because they are the ones that stimulate satiety.

Digesting fats is one of the most difficult jobs the gastrointestinal system has. Fats are big, clump together and refuse to dissolve in water, and the enzymes that dissolve them require basic conditions to work. The GI system needs to start early on fats to absorb them all, but the stomach is acidic, both to kill bacteria and to digest protein, and sending too much food down to the small intestine in one go will overwhelm the ability of the pancreas and gall bladder to alkalinise it.

Cholecystokinin's major job is to aid in the digestion of fats. To do this it stimulates gall bladder contraction (hence the name) to release bile to emulsify fats, and stimulates the pancreas to produce and release enzymes to digest fats and proteins. It also acts to prevent the stomach from sending down more food than the intestines can handle by reducing stomach emptying and stopping the brain from sending food down in the first place (reduces hunger). This is why fatty meals like lamb seem to fill you up so quickly and for so long. It's also why high fat-low carb diets work so well without calorie counting: hunger levels are regulated by intake.

Leptin is produced by fat cells and is supposed to make you less hungry when you're well fed, but fat also causes leptin resistance (like insulin it seems that chronically high levels seem to reduce the response). Do you know what else induces leptin resistance? Fructose. Do you know what contains fructose? Sugar (sucrose is a fructose and a glucose joined together). Do you know what goes in every fizzy drink made by coca cola and Pepsi? High-fructose corn syrup: sugar that has been artificially fortified with even more fructose. Now do you recognise why fizzy drinks and sweets make you feel more hungry and not less. Look at the sugar contents of takeaways like McDonald's and wonder why those that eat there often get fat.

So if you eat the same calories in fat or in sugar you'll lose/gain the same amount of weight, but you'll be more miserable on the sugar diet and calorie counting will be more vital.

[–]AloofusMaximus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

About the "starvation mode" thing. For one if parts of your brain "shut down" you would be functionally brain dead, that literally never happens. Often the symptoms you're talking about mimic hypoglycemia, but are actually from elecrolyte deficiencies. I did PSMF during grad school, but having already been ketoadapted it wasn't even noticible (from a neurologist standpoint). The brain adapts to using jetone pretty easily, it's just that most people NEVER go into ketosis for years/decades.

[–]1InscrutablePUA 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Adding leangains to the mix... the community on reddit is pretty active

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agreed. But there's no point in even reading the subreddit, just go to leangains.com and get everything you need. The more you listen to the reddit people the worse off you'll be.

[–]Moreofmore 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Awesome job. The top thing for me was tracking what I ate which created awareness and that did more good than anything else.

[–]blindface 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I have always known that counting calories is a reliable method of losing weight, and I'm actually surprised you're saying that society is opposed to this. Common liberal thinking is that all these fad diets are ridiculous and people need to stick to counting calories (AKA moderation) in order to lose weight. The 500 calorie deficit per day rule has been advocated in the media for no less than 15 years.

Under that paradigm, I think your post is very helpful and well-thought out. But I also don't think the mechanistic view of the human body (CICO) is the final word on it. What makes modern scientists believe that fat gain is susceptible to the first law of thermodynamics? Why does extra energy only get stored fat? Wouldn't it take some energy for the body to convert a kcal into fat, meaning that the math would never work out perfectly? I'm just not convinced that a calorie is a calorie. The body takes what it can from any food, but that does not mean all food is equal.

If it were true that it was simply a matter of calories, wouldn't obesity be on the decline rather than the rise? After all, low-fat diets were also low-calorie diets, and they did nothing to slow down the epidemic. I've been listening closely to the idea that fat was the wrong enemy, and carbs (specifically sugar) should have been selected long ago. I actually think you have it backwards - people who are counting calories are accidentally losing weight because they are cutting their carb/sugar intake.

If you do read this, I just have one question for you: why do you think that people need to eat carbs? If you have any research to back that up, I'd love to read it.

[–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

A calorie not being a calorie is a valid question for converting energy in the body but this is all micromanaging. The changes you are working on are menial compared to just creating the deficit.

Fat and protein are useful building bricks for the human body to use but they are also taxing for the body to consume. Protein isn't really great for your liver, gallbladder and joints. Fat is also taxing on the gallbladder.

Fat and protein most often don't come with a lot of dietary fiber attached to it so eating whole grains, brown rice, veggies (also carbs!) will keep your digestive system moving.

[–]blindface 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Sorry to keep bugging you, but you seem to be well-informed. Those who recommend we reduce our carbs significantly, possibly to zero, mention that in those cases we actually don't need the fibre if all we're eating is animal protein/fat and water. Carbohydrates, including veggies, are not as digestible as meat. I didn't take this line of thinking seriously but apparently there are hundreds of people who eat nothing but meat and apparently don't have constipation problems.

[–]SwoleyMoleyFrijoley 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fasting and leangains are great ways to lose weight too. Both have subreddits. Fasting has the benefit of autophagy, which repairs damaged cells and eats excess skin cells, so no droopy manboobs after weight loss.

[–]Nightwingx7 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can't believe this has double gold and is front page. No offense but this is like general info, doesn't even seem like it belongs here honestly. Either way, good write up. Seems to be helping others, and I guess thats what matters. Just difficult for me to find material that helps me in regards to this topic.

[–]Vinterblad 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Very well put!

Also, the Swedish national institute for food science agrees with all that you said. Especially that their research shows that all diets works, more or less, and that the main difference is how well they teach you how to change your habits in the long run.

[–]NutmegPluto 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Saying not to restrict calories below that limit for prolonged periods is dumb, intermittent fasting is a bit of a joke. Autophagy really picks up after 36 hours in a fasted state and full ketosis at 3 days. IF is a good default for gradual weightloss and some of the other benefits, but you should be doing at least 48hr fasts once every month or so to reap the rewards of autophagy and ketosis.

[–]Systral 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The few days you're fasting on an extended water fast don't come close to"prolonged periods". He's talking about months.

[–]velinxs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fasting gets a real bad name but honestly Ive done fasts from 2 days all the way up to 7 days and never felt better in my life. You’re body actually stores as much protein as possible too so you don’t lose that much muscle mass (as long as you continue to lift).

[–]PhaedrusHunt 3 points4 points  (14 children)

Good stuff. Anyone heard the Tim Ferriss interview where the guest talks about a guy that lost more or less 300lbs in a year by fasting?

I'd like to find it to listen to the details but it's nuts. He stopped shitting completely the last three months.

But the big takeaway was that at the end of it, his skin was normal. Basically his body had started to use all the extra fat and skin like a bear hybernating. It was all closely monitored by a doctor but holy crap

[–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

Sounds interesting but I seriously doubt the skin part.

Skin is a bitch and trust me I looked far and deep into this. Streched skin is not a problem, if you've been overweight for years it isn't streched skin, it is excess skin that your body specifically build to accommodate more fat (sounds horrible typing that out). The streched skin you can bring back into shape, the excess skin stays behind until surgically removed.

[–]PhaedrusHunt 2 points3 points  (12 children)

Streched skin is not a problem, if you've been overweight for years it isn't streched skin, it is excess skin that your body specifically build to accommodate more fat

I think the thing is all that was metabolized

[–]WorkThrowAway125 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Robb Wolf talked about that on the Joe Rogan Podcast as well. No excess skin after.

[–]xXMillhouseXx 1 point2 points  (10 children)

Fasting breaks down skin protein whereas counting calories doesnt.

[–]phoenix_nz 2 points3 points  (9 children)

Holy fuck can you stop spreading misinformation through this entire thread!?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (7 children)

Dr Jason Fung also advocates that long term fasting literally eats your own excess skin. CICO won't do that. Only autophagy will. He runs a clinic for it and has had to refer 0 people for skin surgery.

[–]phoenix_nz -1 points0 points  (6 children)

You reply to a 3 month old post about a fad diet author who is qualified as a kidney doctor. Fuck off. TRP is about educating yourself. How about you do that and stop believing bullshit

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (5 children)

You really have no clue what you are talking about.

[–]phoenix_nz 0 points1 point  (4 children)

No you

Educate your dumbass before you fling claims around lacking scientific evidence please

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Any scientific evidence I provide you will just say its either BS or that the source is BS...all the time whilst providing no actual evidence that it isn't yourself. All these PHD's are wrong but phoenix_nz knows best amirite?

[–]BillSander 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Here's mine: eat less often, don't pig out, stay away from carbs until you are ripped. Aka eating frequency, calories, macros.

[–]trp_nofap_rewire2018 5 points6 points  (4 children)

How to effectively lose fat: water fasting.

Effortless, costs zero money, promotes mental clarity (many relevant philosophers did it regularly, the Stoics for instance) and general well-being.

No, you won’t die, lose your precious lean mass or slow down your metabolism. Stop being a fucking fitness industry drone and buying BS advice, research about it and try it for yourself.

[–]Zahlix 2 points2 points [recovered]

google fasting and hair loss, have fun cleaning your shower drain. Go slow and steady, learn to moderate.

[–]shayme98 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is crap advice Zahlix. I've water fasted many times. Very safe to 3 days. You turn into Superman mentally. No ill physical effects. Then alternate with the 1200-1500 calorie diet for the other four days if the week. You will lose so much damn weight, and fast. Just don't go longer than a few days.

Also the longer you fast, the easier it gets. By day 3 your appetite will be completely GONE!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Trp_nofap_rewire2018 is right.

Fasting is an easy way to get into a caloric deficit and achieve results fast. It won't burn up all your lean mass until you get below 5% body fat (because there is very little body fat left to use for energy and the body needs it for your internal organs). At most you lose 1-3 lbs of lean mass provided that you partake in resistance training.

The hair loss you mention has never happened to me (recently did a 7 day fast). If anything, it grew a bit more. I will admit that everyone is different in that aspect though.

[–]shayme98 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Agreed. Water fasting is safe and VERY effective.

[–]dickcurls 8 points9 points  (6 children)

Fantastic post. I agree with pretty much everything and I love the part where you make it clear that the type of diet doesn't matter but something like keto can actually backfire because it is so restrictive. That's pretty much exactly what I say in a book that I sell on Amazon that is currently on page 1 for two of its categories. My motto is, if it's not sustainable, it's not a good strategy. Also, Consistency trumps intensity.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[deleted]

    [–]jimbad07 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

    cheat days

    DAYS? Careful, that sounds like a good way to undo a lot of progress.

    [–]lobo9474 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Multiple cheat days across several weeks. So typically I have one cheat day every two weeks. I would never have more than one a week, that would actually undo most of the progress for that week.

    [–]jimbad07 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Good call. I used to do Saturday and Sunday as my cheat days. Even though I did everything right Monday-Friday, my progress was pretty slow and I had to spin my wheels pretty hard.

    [–]Trvspkt 3 points4 points  (4 children)

    Some of the stuff you said is flat out wrong- metabolism does differ for everyone , and small eating windows are far more effective at burning fat while maintaining muscle then typical three to five meal a day eating considering you would be consuming the same amount of calories. It’s like the difference between accelerating 0-60 and cruise control at 25. Which do you think has the engine working harder to burn fuel?

    However, your golden rule is correct. Calories in has to be less than calories out.

    [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

    the difference the eating windows are making are menial at best. Just eat whenever you feel like it. If you want to eating windows and the system works for you, great. But don't fall down the rabbit hole thinking that you are losing weight due to eating windows. They are just your preferred version of creating a caloric deficit.

    There are also multiple studies suggesting that your body uses food even more efficient when pulse feeding

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22992307

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10357740

    [–]MinatoThe4th 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Can you expand on why you call eating windows pointless? Not to stir the pot but those studies are absolutely not relevant to a healthy 20s year old male looking to get gains (switching from the goal of losing weight).

    To call them "technically pointless" you negate all science on the benefits of fasting, and how can you deny that it's easier to maintain a caloric deficit (if that's your goal) when you're only eating between a a 6 hour window a day? There is a lot of information out there on burning glucose vs. fat for energy and IF seeks to capitalize on it. I don't get your bone to pick with this or the other fad diets.

    [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

    not relevant to a healthy 20s year old male looking to get gains (switching from the goal of losing weight)

    The goal of this post is weight loss and weight loss alone.

    how can you deny that it's easier to maintain a caloric deficit

    You can do IF, stick to your eating windows accurate to a second and not lose a single gram of weight if you are not creating a caloric deficit. On the other hand you can eat whenever you feel like it and lose weight rapidly as you stick to your target caloric deficit. What matters is the deficit, not how you create it.

    This is a great analogy to understand what I am talking about: What makes the glute muscle want to grow?

    You may answer: "squats, deadlifts, lunges" but that is wrong. What makes a muscle grow is progressive overload of the muscle. You can do all the squats, dealifts and lunges in the world and not gain an iota of muscle if there is no progressive overload involved. The exercise itself is just a method of applying the progressive overload but the exercise itself is not the reason that your muscle is growing.

    all science on the benefits of fasting

    It has been very well established that a caloric deficit is the only thing that matters in regards to weight loss. Everything else is micro managing.

    how can you deny that it's easier to maintain a caloric deficit

    I never denied that. In the post you replied to I literally said: "If you like eating windows and the system works for you, great."

    There is a lot of information out there on burning glucose vs. fat for energy and IF seeks to capitalize on it.

    Please post a study that shows that people are losing more weight than those people who are just sticking to a caloric deficit. I've posted this further up but would like to point out again that the deficit is the only deciding factor in how much weight you are losing.

    I don't get your bone to pick with this or the other fad diets.

    I don't want people wasting their time and energy on something that won't help them. You can toy around with all those diets if you want to. Heck try every single one if you feel like it. People think that

    • eating "good" food
    • eating windows
    • caloric restriction
    • drinking enough water

    are equally important. So you get people failing to create the caloric deficit but they put focus on drinking enough water, ate in their IF window and ate a lot of veggies and lean meat. They will tell themselves they took care of 75% of the requirements and only neglected one aspect of the diet. Will that person lose a single gram of weigh?

    FUCK NO!

    That person could have been losing weight while eating nothing but twinkies throughout the day and drinking black coffee or soda. Pick and choose your battles. Priority #1 is always the deficit, nothing else matters in weight loss.

    [–]MinatoThe4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Thanks for the response. I mean, I'm coming from a very different place as I'm not in need of losing weight. Your argument is sound but I just wanted to probe what your thoughts are on those of us looking for gains and healthy maintenance. But that's shifting from the purpose of your post! Thanks again.

    [–]ValuePrestige 6 points7 points  (6 children)

    Yeah the BMI Scale is huuuge bullshit though. I am at 25 something (overweight) but super lanky and around 15%bf with very little muscle

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]360_no_scope_upvote 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      It's still pretty shitty, I'm a pretty fit dude carrying a lot of muscle and it says im overweight by 10kg. Forget about BMI system, it's trash.

      [–]Memus_Vult 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Hip to waist ratio is better for avoiding BMI anomalies and has a similar predictive value, but it takes time and is rarely measured accurately.

      [–]RedwallAllratuRatbar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      look up HVI (height to volume or volume to height) index, it's all the rage

      [–]Deus_Vultan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Everyone

      Bmi Scale punishes Men, and rewards women. A "fit" male will always have a higher BMI than a "fat" woman because muscle mass pushes the BMI trough the roof.

      [–]blue-jean 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      One of the biggest problems in human society is that hindsight is rarely 20:20. Learning from the past is a skill. Study probability theory and scientific method for a start.

      [–]1Entropy-7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      One note on BMI: it is bullshit. The whole 18.5-24.9 is nonsense for any man out of his 20s who hits the gym. If you are 5'10" and a trim 180, that is a 26 BMI. On the other end, it is nonsense for women. My last 3 girlfriends had BMIs of 18 or 19. You know what a 24.9 BMI is for a woman? That's like 145 pounds at 5'4". Unless they are built like Christina Hendricks (who is apparently BMI 24.9), that is not a good sign.

      [–]avocadowithsalt123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I have to disagree. With some things at least.

      But first to say I am glad you said the only thing we need to know about weight loss: eat less and move more. Everything else would be bs.

      But where you are wrong is calorie counting. In 12 years of coaching I still havent met a person who had success with it. It is not the problem of controling how much you eat (amd even that is tricky and inaccurate). Real problem is in knowing how much you spend. Most of calculations are terribly wrong and it would take one month to properly adjust intake according to calculations..IF you had same day all 30 days of the month. Like, completely same.

      Calorie counting can be so inaccurate that most people will have same results with just eating less. And for people who had success with counting, its because they managed to eat less or their bodies are naturally better at protein synthesis or they were on gear.

      But no one had success with counting because he had every calorie right, that does not happen.

      [–]1AuspexAO 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      I have a feeling the OP is going to get a lot of shit, but I would like to support him because his post is not only scientifically accurate, it is also something that a lot of people deny fiercely to this day. I was weighed about seven years ago at the doctor's office at 387 pounds. It was the heaviest I've ever been in my life. That was also around the time I took the pill and I knew what had to be done.

      You don't have to do anything except for diet and exercise, period. If keto or paleo helps you get the calories down, then do it. I didn't even really start watching my macros until after my skin surgeries when I needed to start sculpting a better body. My entire regime was: Eat around 1200-1400 cals a day and exercise until I achieved the "moderate" classification of cardio (it's based on mets, a unit of caloric burn, but 150 minutes/week of cardio with your heart rate in the yellow is a good guideline). I also did resistance training because lifting made me feel good (unlike cardio).

      It took me almost two full years to drop the weight and I had two surgeries (one major and one minor). My belly looked like a big empty sack before the surgery, so I wasn't letting that shit go. Get the surgery, lol.

      On "cheat days": If you're not a social outcast, you're gonna get invited out a lot so don't ever "cheat" unless you wanna kill a brew with your friends or grab a burger with your father. I managed to always lose at least two pounds a week, even with some small deviances.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]1AuspexAO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I dropped 15k (American) and I mostly had lower belly problems and thighs. Chest required a little work, but not as bad as the stomach. I started getting a little more into bodybuilding techniques to get a six-pack, etc, but I'm not as dedicated to that level of precise eating as a I should be. As a result, I mostly just have strong arms and a decent chest, but my core is still just ok. I think I have the lifting disease known as arms&chest-itis, ha ha.

        Edit: Hey, btw, thanks for standing strong for the science. I know it can be frustrating to read a lot of people taking what you know is truth and spitting in your face. It takes a strong frame to not blow up at people and stay firm.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        i would say just do keto. appetite suppression happens automatically, leading to less cals

        [–]mozofila 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        This post is so true. I went from 82 to 76kg in 1.5 months only by following the principle of not suppressing eating my normal calorie requirement.

        Bought a kitchen scale, weight all my food and add into Cronometer app - pretty easy to track there.

        I have about 4 meals which I spread over the week and that consumes less time than I would have thought initially - not picky about food, raw veggies, chicken meat and carbs rice usually.

        Thanks

        [–]sa5mmm 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]Memus_Vult 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          The effects of hypothyroidism are small, and if they're enough to make you actually gain a significant amount of weight, then much of that will be water and there'll be enough other symptoms that you'll have seen a doctor already.

          Maybe you'll be about a stone heavier, but no one gets to 20st without eating their way there.

          [–]platinum1578 3 points4 points  (2 children)

          Ketogenic Diet, Intermittent Fasting and a solid HIIT regime, are the only three things you need.

          [–]jimbad07 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Ketogenic Diet

          Calorie deficit is still needed. You aren't going to lose any weight by eating 7,000 calories of bacon and cheese per day.

          [–]MacDrezzy 1 points1 points [recovered]

          While you’re not wrong that people will lose weight eating whatever, they’ll have a significantly easier time if they reduce the sugar and simple carbs in their diet. From my personal experience they change losing weight from simply eating less food to a fight against my own hunger.

          This might be more relevant as people get below 15% bf

          [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

          I agree, but this was more of a basic tutorial for weight loss. I plan on writing another piece on mindset/motivation/cravings/mealplans/logging in the future.

          This will work as the foundation to build on. Because everything you do is secondary compared to the fundamental law of weight loss. you could literally eat nothing but twinkies and still lose weight. Would that be healthy? Maybe not. Would you lose weight? Yes.

          [–]MacDrezzy 1 points1 points [recovered]

          Sure I totally agree with you on that. But I feel it's worth noting the reality that even while you can lose weight eating anything, it'll be significantly easier if you're eating lots of fruits, veggies, and meats as opposed to the aforementioned twinkies.

          [–]captainfashion 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          Some of this stuff is good info. Some of this stuff is bullshit.

          Starvation mode is not a lie. It's just not as simple as people put it. There's not much evidence about when the body goes into "starvation mode", mostly because there have been few studies on it. One of the best studies is ~70 years old.

          A body will adjust its metabolism over time to accommodate for limited caloric intake. We just don't have good enough information on what the thresholds are.

          There is mounting evidence that zero calorie drinks still cause a brain response to expect sugar. This can cause people to still crave sugar intake after consumption.

          There is some evidence that eating clean/organic/non-processed is better for weight loss, but full studies are not complete. Our bodies metabolize many processed foods better and much more quickly than non-processed foods. This means it takes longer for the non-processed foods to be fully digested. The current theory is that this results in people feeling full for longer periods of time, which results in less craving. Also, because we process less of the non-processed foods (especially vegetables), we tend to have healthier bowel movements.

          Also, "juicing" is bullshit, unless you are keeping all the pulpy goodness and consuming that as well. The pulp is great for pooping.

          Source: A very brilliant friend of mine, who is a registered dietitian and loves her work.

          [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

          There's not much evidence about when the body goes into "starvation mode", mostly because there have been few studies on it. One of the best studies is ~70 years old.

          The study you are referring to is called the Minnesota Starvation Experiment conducted in a prison. The conclusion of the starvation experiment was the patients kept loosing weight. The only way for the body to reduce its metabolism is if it does less (lower body temperature, less movement, more sleep). Your body is a machine that already maxes out on fuel efficiency . The only way to use less energy for your body is by doing less activity - it does not lower your metabolism.

          There is mounting evidence that zero calorie drinks still cause a brain response to expect sugar. This can cause people to still crave sugar intake after consumption.

          No they don't. Insulin is not a psychological reaction to the taste of sweet but a physical response to glucose levels in the bloodstream. It is very well documented that there is no significant insulin response after consumption.

          The current theory is that this results in people feeling full for longer periods of time, which results in less craving.

          You are describing hunger, not weight loss. Calories in vs calories out reign supreme no matter what you do. If you fill your daily caloric allowance with Oreos that is your problem. You could have eaten some chicken breast and steamed veggies so you wouldn't go hungry. But if you stick to the calorie limit, you will lose weight.

          Also, because we process less of the non-processed foods (especially vegetables), we tend to have healthier bowel movements.

          Also irrelevant for weight loss. You can eat brown rice or whole grain bread and have all the bowel movements you want. But calories in vs calories out reigns supreme.

          Your post is all over the place focusing on a million little details that are all about "feeling" hungry or pooping more. This is all micromanagement distracting from the task at hand - weight loss.

          [–]captainfashion 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Did you even read the study you referenced? It was determining if NNS increased cravings when taken with a full meal. It has nothing to do with NNS sating cravings, which is precisely what I am referring to. In fact, there is evidence to show correlation between consumption of NNS and weight gain

          And lastly, you are arguing about hunger and weight loss as though they are not related at all, which is laughable. No RD in this world would take you seriously.

          A degree in food prep does not make you qualified to talk about this subject. Perhaps if you were talking about new packaging techniques for a McCheeseburger, but not when it comes to nutrition.

          [–]Zanzir64 3 points4 points  (4 children)

          your post is useless as it only explains dietary terms and trends. every can look up these on the internet.

          it would've been more useful to explain your coping mechanisms with cravings, as it is the main reason why people fail.

          i also strongly disagree with your statement about going on less calories. i actually recommend going on no calories and i think that for someone who isn't on any kind of meds, long fasting is the best way to go.

          you only need salt water to replenish electrolytes and your body will eat it's own fat. it's not even catabolyc. you won't lose any muscle.

          the fact that you had to do surgery to remove excessive skin shows that you lost too much muscle in the process and not all the fat. if you had only fasted on water, you wouldn't have had the skin issue.

          when you eat less then you should, you body quicly runs out of fuel and, because of insuline resistance, it cannot directly tap in your fat ressources, so you lose a small amount of muscle in the process. this doesn't happen with fasting since you don't trigger insuline at all as you are not eating and you are body can directly tap in your fat ressource.

          look up snake diet on youtube, people have amazing results with it.

          now here are my advice to people who have a hard time coping with cravings. these things helped me

          and these advice are for those who need to lose just a few pounds, the fatasses don't need to eat at all. see above.

          when you get hungry outside of your eating window or if you crave some sugar after a meal,

          1. be mindful of your cravings. try to see if it's real hunger by focusing on your hunger.
          2. do something else. identify the cue which lead to the habit. so one cue could be to watch television. you might crave sugar because everytime you sit in front of the tv to watch your favorite show, you eat. try drinking tea instead.
          3. look at picture of the ideal type of man or woman you want to be. seeing someone ripped can make you motivated.
          4. a basic one : keep sugary food away

          peace

          [–]1kenpachitz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          the fact that you had to do surgery to remove excessive skin shows that you lost too much muscle in the process and not all the fat

          Hold up. You want OP to replace 200lbs of fat with muscle?

          [–]meowsero -1 points0 points  (1 child)

          Came here to write this but I'm glad someone else here already did and aware of it.

          Snake diet ftw. Get that fat in ya

          [–]RedwallAllratuRatbar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I'm snake dieter! . 2 weeks, about 5-6kg

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          alcohol makes me lighten up.......gets rid of the approach anxiety, makes me more fun, helps me let go

          [–]jrr6415sun 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          you say your opinion on things but then anything you disagree with you say "show your facts" yet you don't show any facts of your own? Organic has nothing to do with weightloss, but you can't think that putting less harmful chemicals in your body wouldn't be better for you.

          [–]molokomoloko 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          Today I learned I'm overweight.

          [–]fromdario 0 points1 point  (3 children)

          Been doing IF and a cutting LeanGains protocol for a year or so. Happy with the results both strength gains and BF% loss.

          However, I started to experience a plateau at around 10% bf (Dexa tested) and have not really been able to drop below that despite paying more attention to my diet and exercise for a few months.

          I should be below my TDEE (6'3", 190lbs 10% bf). I lift heavy three days a week and eat at my maintenance cals those days (around 2200cal) and then do around 1500 to 1800 cal on non-lift days (+ 1hr cardio 3 times a week). Protein numbers are daily .8 g per 1 lbs, Keto on non-lift days and higher carb on lift days.

          While I have no research to back this up, my thought was that losing the initial over-weight fat is pretty easy and the lower your BF % becomes it gets harder. At least it has for me.

          I'm still losing BF% but its become a LOT slower. Goal is to get to around 5%, just to know that I could, then maintain at around 8% and slowly start to gain more muscle.

          Apologizes for the rambling post but anyone else gone through what I am, or have any thoughts, suggestions?

          [–]miller211 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          5% Is at and around the levels that some competitive bodybuildingers have on stage bro.. very unhealthy to maintain for a long time... and HARD without steroids..

          [–]fromdario 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Thanks.

          Yea I know, but it's a challenge I want to attempt to see if I can even get there then slowly lean gain after.

          Trying to keep it natural and healthy, so no juice for me.

          [–]samjsmrnm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Thanks for the post, good read.

          Obviously eating a well-balanced diet full of vitamins and nutrients is more beneficial to your health, but this post is about weight loss and you pretty much covered it. People find it so hard to believe the CICO for some reason.

          When I was in my early 20's I went through periods of literally eating complete CRAP (#college) and doing very little exercise but still lost weight and everyone would always comment how I was so lucky I was able to eat chips and pizza and ice cream all the time.

          Thankfully, I care about the nutrients I feed my body these days, but I always follow the 80/20 rule when it comes to healthy/unhealthy food and just focus on CICO.

          [–]Philligan123 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          I just lost 47 pounds and yes basically it was just eating a lot less. And when I did eat I would eat slow and stop when I no longer had the hunger crazing.

          As opposed to back in the day I would eat a large pizza just because it was good. Then be so uncomfortable in all my clothes and everything else.

          [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

          At my worst I would do binges where I ordered two pizzas, got high and just spend the day eating and masturbating.

          If you are at the bottom, there is only one way. Up.

          [–]phouka_fey 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          Great Post! Exactly what I needed to hear. Orginally was 300lbs and have been doing a lot of hamstering at 230lbs for at least 3-4 months. Just started meal prepping, and after reading your post will start calorie logging again today. PREACH!

          [–]Zahlix[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          keep at it, focus on your deficit! Best of luck!

          [–]phouka_fey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          So far so good! Thank you for the encouragment brother.

          [–]KingDoni 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          39% BMI here and the age of 16, i grew up constantly trying to lose weight, everytime i achieve way more than the last one, but then i slack off, i learn way more about myself with each attempt, great post tho

          [–]Zahlix[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          keep at it. log everything. it is worth it.

          You hear all those people always saying "weight loss was the most important change I've made in my life"?

          They are right. It is your life and you should live it to the fullest. You are young and have all of life ahead of you. Buckle down and do this one thing - it will fuel you with a sense of pride that no one can ever take from you.

          [–]nadolny7 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          ok, another thing i want to add here. Dont be afraid to go to a doctor and ask for help, even if it is meds that cut your appetite. The benefits FAR outweight the negatives. Of course only go to meds if you really tried your fucking best in dieting and exercising and only then you should ask for some.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–]theSoothSlayerCoC 0 points1 point  (3 children)

              Is organic BS in regards to weight loss or in regards to not eating a bunch of pesticides?

              [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

              In regards to weight loss. If you want to buy "ethically" slaughtered animals you can go for organic. But even if the cows are on a field eating only the tastiest of grass that does not guarantee you much. In Europe we had this amazing egg scandal a couple of years ago. Some farmer burned tractor wheels ages before the stables were billed and the dioxin leaked into the food supply and eggs.

              That was a fun year...

              Organic also does not mean "no pesticides", organic still allows pesticides.

              [–]theSoothSlayerCoC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Ive always been under the impression that organic meant use of pesticides was limited to things Neem oil or another natural ways of repelling pests (at least in regards to vegetables)

              Thanks for being responsive. Enlightening post.

              [–]Memus_Vult 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Organic also does not mean "no pesticides", organic still allows pesticides.

              I suspect that depends on where you live. In the UK, food labelled organic can't be treated with artificial pesticides or fertiliser.

              [–]BillSander 0 points1 point  (5 children)

              Also... BMI is almost total horse shit as a measurement of health.

              [–]Memus_Vult 0 points1 point  (4 children)

              BMI has a really good predictive value for risk of heart disease, T2DM, stroke etc. The rule works for the best majority of people.

              If you think you're an exception because you're unusually tall or muscular then you may be right, but pushing the idea that it's useless just plays into the hands of the fat activists.

              Hip to waist ratio has fewer exceptions, but it's less well known and more difficult to measure properly.

              [–]BillSander 0 points1 point  (3 children)

              It's a height to weight ratio... that's it. That ratio is going to be broadly accurate. .. cause most people (at least in the US) are fat as Fuk.

              But there are much better indicators of health, and just because something is widely known doesn't make it correct.

              [–]Memus_Vult 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              It's broadly accurate because it only really fails to make good predictions in uncommon outliers like those who are uncommonly tall or muscular (overestimates) or uncommonly short or skinny-fat (underestimates). It's not really a good argument to say it oughtn't predict health outcomes, because it does.

              It being well known means that is has the best evidence base, and it's recognised by the public as a good standard measure of their weight independent from their height (prevents hamstering about being 6ft and thinking 15st is probably about right).

              [–]BillSander 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              I didn't say it can't be used to "predict" I said "measure".

              [–]Memus_Vult 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Prediction is a measure of risk. That's what BMI is.

              [–]hurtlingtooblivion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              TLDR

              Don't get fat in the first place

              [–]Colombslavia 0 points1 point  (3 children)

              This guide is amazing for the redpillers that want to lose weight. But what about the guys that want to gain weight? I've been 5'6'" 110lbs all my life and I'm fucking sick of it. I just started lifting and I want to maximize my gains. Where is the guide to gains???

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–]celtiberian666 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                always spend more time eating than training

                This... Professional bodybuilders in bulking, strongman and even powerlifters spend more time eating than training. Some of them even say stuff like "my job is to eat".

                [–]RagingStallion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Losing weight is easy. Its the discipline part that's hard. I lost 35lb in high school. Everyone asked me how I did it, even total strangers when they looked at my drivers license. "Run more, eat less." That's all I did. I ran a mile every other day and counted calories. Its not that losing weight is hard, its that gaining weight is so easy.

                [–]Rampageriley98 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I’m a 19 year old and I’ve never had a weight problem in my life until last year. I started drinking hard alcohol every night and I went from a healthy weight of 165lbs at 5’11ft tall to 185lbs.

                I’ve been dieting and reducing my consumption of sugary drinks, but I’m unable to lose weight and I’m beginning to think it’s the alcohol. I always get the urge to down multiple shots before bed every night and I think I have a problem, but I don’t know how to stop. Is there a way I can drink and lose weight or do I have to cut whiskey?

                [–]shayme98 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Pretty giod info. Just gotta do it. I went from 205 to 175 in 10 weeks on nothing but white rice 800 calories a day and fruit 400 calories per day. Push ups and pull ups 3x a week. No cardio except easy walking 30 min a day.

                So high calorie and low protein worked fine and I didn't lose much muscle. Look better. Jaw outline evident. Agree that It's all about the calories. But the key is to eat filling foods, which rice is, and drink water to keep hunger away.

                If anyone needs help on keeping motivated, PM me for info.

                [–]CapitalMM 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Agree with most except BMI is garbage. 210 lb of muscle at 5.10 is obese.

                [–]mfwiseeshitpost 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                The part where he mentions you should not go bellow 1600kcal/day as a man needs to be highlighted.

                It's absolutely mandatory that you eat well and, for the love of your masculinity, do not cut on fats 100%.

                Fats don't make you fat, excess calories do. In fact, healthy fats are key for good hormone production and brain health.

                [–]rossiFan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Great writeup, but I think that BMI is a load of crap. I used to run my unit's fat boy program after last formation when I was in the Army, and there were some "overweight" guys who could outrun me. And I ran a 12 minute 2 mile.

                [–]Martysteiner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Reading your past was a pleasure. Also as an ex-fat, I past through the same process.

                [–]110_percent_THC 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                How much can I expect to spend on surgery to remove excess skin? I've lost 100 pounds and still going. I anticipate if I don't severely bulk up with muscle afterward I'll have a lot of sagging skin.

                [–]Redpillandrew 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                you're right, the golden rule stays the same permeating all those dietary styles. But there's something you didn't consider. Different dietary styles can affect your hormonal blood pool in a different way. See GH and similia

                [–]specklemouse 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Been there, done that. Am in total agreement. This is exactly how to lose weight.

                [–]FromTheOR 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                How does a lifetime lazy get motivated for exercise though?

                [–]110_percent_THC 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Also why shouldn't I go under 1600 kcal a day? Muscle loss?

                [–]Lowabunny2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Tldr: eat less than your bmr

                Just saved you 10minutes of reading

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

                Hello, thanks for the guide! I lost 20 pounds last summer thanks to Keto (which led to me consuming a lot less calories) and it helped me feel way better by cutting sugar from my diet. Then I lost 15 pounds by Christmas just by eating less.

                My question to you is this: I want to transform. I want to lose weight (170 right now 5 foot 6) and gain as much muscle as possible before school starts again. But I am not sure what diet I should do. Cutting carbs made me feel GREAT and I would love to do it again, but to gain muscle one needs more carbs. My guess was that I should eat lots of protein and cut out sugar. Also should I have a caloric deficit or surplus if I want to lose fat but gain muscle?

                tldr: What's the best way to maximize fat loss and muscle growth in the next 3.5 months?

                [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

                Your ability to build muscle and lose fat is quite limited. I would focus on lifting heavy and cutting hard. You won't build any significant muscle in that time but you keep what muscles you have and lose fat quickly. Once you are all the way down start doing a long lean bulk. Don't think about school as some kind of deadline. See this as your lifestyle for the rest of your life and take one step after the other. lose fat first and then focus on just gaining muscle.

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                What about if I raise my protein intake and lower my fat intake?

                [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                  So do you think that I should lower my fat intake too?

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                  [deleted]

                    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Ok thanks, you've given me a lot to think about.

                    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                    Thanks for this. Great post. Can you talk mkre about (maybe this is a whole new post in itself) weight loss while trying to gain muscle? Are the two goals at odds with each other? Is it possible to do, but an extremely delicate balance? Or should we all be trying to do both as a standard practice?

                    [–]T4keTheShot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    tldr; calories in vs calories out

                    [–]Lord_Teapot 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                    that's a lot of text to say; use http://www.calculator.net/calorie-calculator.html to calculate your daily needs. i used sedentary, and it comes to 2200 calories to maintain my current body weight. so, a pound of fat is ~3500 calories, so if i eat 1500 calories a day, i will lose 1lb a week, without exercise. typically, walking 1 mile burns ~100 calories. so, if you walk 1 hour a day, ~3 miles, you can eat 1800 calories/day and lose 1lb per week. in one year, you've easily lost 52 pounds.

                    tldr; you don't need fancy diets, simply use the above calculator set to sedentary, calculate how long you work out and which exercises you're doing (walking, jogging, whatever), and make sure that's burning more calories than you're eating.

                    [–]P4_Brotagonist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    This is a pretty simple, great guide. I lost about 90 pounds so far and I'm down to 24% body fat. I still have another 30-40 pounds I want to lose but yes when you are in it, it's just so simple to do it. You also never realize how much you have lost until one day 60 pounds in you suddenly go "oh wait what is going on this shirt is way too big I remember not even being able to fit in it." However I think many people who lose a lot struggle with never feeling like they lost enough.

                    Also big boned is totally a thing, even though it's extremely rare. I can tell you that My rib cage is absolutely enormous to the point that I have to buy shirts 2 sizes larger than I should need to fit around my chest, and I'm not even muscular yet. However, when I buy them, my(still sort of fat) stomach just swims in a sea of fabric. My wrist size is also outrageously massive. It has nothing to do with weight however, and just makes you look awful if you don't have a perfect physique.

                    [–]lister777 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    To lose weight, stop eating your candies/sugar and move your ass every day. Reduce by 20% the amount of food and take probiotics. If you have a man, make love every day to him and don't play the starfish.

                    [–]havelbrandybuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Metabolic rate is +/-2-300 calories at several standard deviations iirc, varies between people not not overall notable as exaggerated.

                    [–]chrisname 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Alcohol calories are essentially "free" provided you consume no other macronutrients around the time that you're drinking. Converting alcohol to fat uses 97% of the energy (source) so if you consume 100g of alcohol (about ten 35 ml shots of whisky) you'd gain a whopping 3g of fat.

                    Now I'm not saying to go out and get shitfaced whenever you want. Alcohol kills your gains and your liver. It also makes you hungry and harms your judgement, so you end up eating greasy fast food meals that you don't need. But if you must drink, you're best off drinking spirits either neat or with zero calorie mixers. Wine is also ok because it has only 1-2 g of carbs per glass.

                    [–]zanefields 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    i would agree that "fat loss" supplements are bs, however there are many gym supplements such as whey protein that definitely are effective, they also can help fill you up while remaining low in calories which may help with eating less.

                    [–]lejarton 0 points1 point  (7 children)

                    Cool post. I would just add something : Organic is not BS, it's a choice (if you can afford this choice) This is not BS in the sense that it's "cleaner" than non organic. And by putting crap in your system, yes you can still lose weight, but you also add pesticides and shits like that.

                    Regarding the veggies. I disagree as well. The soils nowadays are lacking Magnesium due to the intensive harvesting in combination with pesticides. They basically kill the soils (macro and microorganims in it responsible of a lot of process and reactions, I'll not detail that here but can reply in pm) So some supplements are not BS, like magnesium (responsible of more than 300 metabolic reactions - I mean a good form.of magnesium, not the majority of crap we can buy at the supermarket), Omega 3 (critical as well due to the unbalanced ratio of Omega 3-6-9 in our diet (thanks to processed stuff and bad diets), Vit D of course, Zinc, B6-B12. Simply because except if you get quality fruits and veggies, you can't really cover that properly without supplements. I'm not even mentionning the fact that fruits and veggies now, lost big quantities of nutrients compared to their levels 50 years ago.

                    [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

                    Interesting point, nothing of which has to do with weight loss however. This is what I was talking about when I said people get lost in micromanaging stuff that does is irrelevant to the task at hand.

                    If the ship is sinking you focus on getting the water out and plugging the leaks, not painting the sails or the bearings on the steering wheels.

                    [–]lejarton 0 points1 point  (5 children)

                    Purely based on weight loss I agree, but saying Organic is BS is counter productive because if you involve time and efforts towards your goal, why ignoring the other parameters that can help you to reach it the best way possible. (Not saying faster, but better) Losing weigh is great, Losing weight while getting healthier by putting the good stuff in the machine is better. Nevertheless, as I said, cool post

                    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

                    [deleted]

                      [–]lejarton 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                      Long post to basically say "ok let's count the calories but of course don't have a look at what you count. Just count for the sake of counting" I think if you count, it's not even more time consuming to be sure that you count quality instead of counting blindly. It's like saying, guys, you have to run because you're doing a marathon. So run, run. I'm just saying to not forget to put the shoes on otherwise the run will be painful and will take time for you to recover from the injuries. On the other side, regarding the urgent fat loss, yes, I think you can forget what I said tho. Your post being targeting that, then I get your point. Well done by the way. Looks like you did very well

                      [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

                      Putting on shoes and getting lost discussing which brand of shoe is the best are (ironically) two pair of shoes. Most people are easily trapped in analysis paralysis. They think in order to start, it has to be perfect, that is why they keep researching and not starting.

                      Same reason guys are not approaching, better read some more TRP theory first!

                      It creates a loop where you never start and fuzz over minor details.

                      [–]lejarton 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                      It seems that you don't like constructive criticism. It also looks like when you face another opinion, you loose your frame. I leave plenty of space below for you to reply to try to demonstrate again that only your opinion is valid. The difference is that I wasn't invalidating, I was adding/completing. I leave you to that. All the best

                      [–]Deus_Vultan 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                      "aspartame is dangerous: source needed"

                      From what i have heard other nutritionists and doctors say, aspartame is linked to over-eating and an increased sense of hunger.

                      [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

                      [–]Deus_Vultan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      I never said it was unhealthy. A paper sponsored by aspartame :O, not biased?

                      Here is one saying its not a myth. From the same site. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2359769

                      https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160712130107.htm

                      Im not taking a stand against aspartame, anything is better than that fructose corn sugar.

                      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                      [deleted]

                        [–]-RaisedByWolves- 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        If it takes a 7000 kcal deficit to lose 1kg, I’m assuming you’d have to eat the same amount of cals to GAIN 1kg?

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        I count calories for specific meals and eat them every day. Eggs and salsa then chicken brocoli/beans.

                        [–]brassmonkey522 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Thanks! Just listened to a Podcast that also summarized alot of what you said here and went into greater deapth on fat loss and strength training. https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/podcast-401-the-science-of-fat-loss/

                        [–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                        I dumped 20lbs last year through nothing more than intermittent fasting. I found it difficult to consume a shitload of excess calories as I was full during my eating window and it eliminated all the snacking and junk food I was eating. That's the primary benefit IMO.

                        I also found it a lot easier to meal prep for a short 4-6 hour window. Typically it was something around 400 calories in the late afternoon, hit the gym right after work, and then follow it up with a huge dinner. It just... worked.

                        The drawback as I found out firsthand is if you fall off the wagon that the weight is easily gained back. Again, a lot of that was just being lazy and snacking on junk food (excess calories).

                        [–]3LiveAFTSOV 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        Does this work if you are skinny, with not much muscles (75lb shoulder press) or only if you are advanced in lifting?

                        Im tried of reading about fasting when Im already skinny as shit, im trying to bulk up

                        [–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        I really don't know. All I can say is that fating helps normalize blood insulin levels which helps the body unlock body fat for energy. If you're already shredded, then I'm not sure what benefit you'll gain from IF. Maintaining that shredded look is still a good idea though. You probably just need more protein and calories in general to put on mass.

                        [–]yunhaila 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                        I'd recommend reevaluating your conclusion on organic, non-processed, and clean foods. Much of the movement on these three topics are based on numerous studies. Of course, there's research suggesting both sides are right, but I don't think it's fair to say these three things are BS without mentioning the meta analysis of these topics.

                        [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

                        This post is about weight loss. Organic, non-processed and "clean" foods are ethical and/or personal dietary choices (just like eating kosher or halal).

                        To your body, those choices are irrelevant when your goal is weight loss. Spend 2 months tracking and logging your calories while sticking to your daily limit, eat whatever you want during that time. Your #1 priority is creating the deficit. Once tracking and logging is second nature in your daily life and the kilos are starting to drop you can spend the remaining time of your diet trying all sorts of diets. You can try only eating organic stuff or try eating vegetarian for a month, whatever you feel like.

                        All under the condition that you stick to rule #1. You can eat clean, organic and sustainable all you want and not lose a single gram if your calories are not in check.

                        [–]yunhaila 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        I agree. Although when worded in short as Organic is BS, the meaning might come off differently than you would like.

                        [–]SgtBrutalisk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Minimize salt intake to lower blood pressure and use spices, such as ginger and cinnamon instead.

                        [–]morcerfel 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                        Quick question about calculating calories: let's say I'm making a soup with potatoes and onions. Do I just search the calories for potato and onion and sum the up?

                        [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

                        pretty much yes.

                        500 g water -> 0 kcal

                        500 g potatoes -> 325 kcal (65 kcal/100g)

                        100 g onions -> 28 kcal (28 kcal/100g)

                        10 g butter -> 74 kcal (740 kcal/100g)

                        Black bepper -> I am sure black pepper has calories but unless you are eating more than 50 g a day I wouldn't waste time counting it

                        Salt -> 0 kcal

                        Sum everything up and you know whats in your stew. This is also why meal prepping is so great. Cook and count every sunday like a maniac and eat for an entire week only counting snacks and small meals.

                        [–]MrVodnik 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        There is something I don't get. Why, when I eat fat, it gives me 9 kcal/g of energy, but when I want to burn my body fat, I only need to "work out" 7 kcal/g?

                        [–]AlexCarlin 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        Do some of yall actually believe that girls like dad bods?

                        [–]WSBagholder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Great article, many people don't understand that you just need to eat less calories to lose weight.

                        Reminds me of a time two years ago where I consumed around 350-350 kcals/day and was on my feet at least 18 hours of the day. Boy that was hell.

                        [–]barachoochoo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        In case you are still reading -- is it true that the body can only process up to 30g of protein in one meal sitting?

                        [–]otter6461a 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        As long as we can agree that the second law of thermodynamics is the ONLY thing we should consider when dealing with the complex and subtle systems of the human body, we can move forward.

                        [–]JohnKway 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                        "eating windows are technically pointless but OK if it makes it easier for you"

                        Are you saying fasting and if is bullshit?

                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                        [deleted]

                          [–]JohnKway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          I agree on a standpoint that all that matters in weight loss is creating a calorie deficit. That being said, I don't think it's right to say fasting is pointless when so many people have had success with it.

                          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                          Awfully long post for such a simple concept.

                          [calories in] - [calories out] = change in weight.

                          If you burn more energy than you consume you will lose weight. I guarantee it.

                          [–]mozofila 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                          Is there a way to focus weight loss on stomach belly? Or it all comes down to eating a deficit of calories.

                          [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

                          It all comes down to the deficit. There is no (known) way of targeting specific areas of weight loss. A common myth is that crunches or other ab exercise will help you lose belly fat but your body doesn't work that way.

                          When your body is burning fat, the energy is transported via bloodstream all over your body. The fat cells do no just supply the muscles next to them with energy.

                          During my weight loss I had several phases where I noticed that my body kind of "shifted" the area of weight loss. You usually lose weight all over your body at the same time but some areas seem to be especially targeted during certain stages of your weight loss. You know how some people put all their weight on their thighs and others have skinny legs but get a huge belly first? When losing weight it works the same but in reverse.

                          The last thing to go are usually the love handles and neck fat. That is why losing those last couple of pounds can sometimes make such a huge difference in appearance.

                          [–]mozofila 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          The last paragraph seems to make sense since I've got both of those and seems like I am constantly loosing weight but on none of those areas. Anyways I have made a Target for myself to aim for 1400 calories daily. I went lower than what I would need to because I usually get quick meals or drinks that I forget to add in my app. Thanks for the detailed post!

                          [–]Redasshole 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                          What's the best way to log in the food you eat?

                          [–]toastystoner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Or you could just eat a whole food plant based diet. Eat until you are full and still lose weight. Amazing how people haven't caught on to this yet.

                          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28319109

                          BROAD proves it. Optimal for weight loss even while controlling for exercise.

                          [–]1Entropy-7 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                          It's a very personal thing. My sister swears by Dr. Poon which, as far as I can tell, is a modified keto plan. My mom, who is now in her 70s, had a health scare and was put on a low-carb diet (which is weird because the problem seemed to be fat rather than carbs).

                          My best plan is high protein, low fat, and moderate exercise; the carbs take care of themselves. On the other hand, in a time of crisis, I dropped 10 pounds in two weeks on a diet of vodka and a regime of walking 20k per day, not that I would recommend this.

                          I had a link to a study that concluded 12% body fat is the healthiest and most sexually attractive.

                          [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

                          the VW diet. Classic.

                          Vodka % Walking. I was actually expecting Dr. Poon to be some witty/shitty PUA website where the doctor picks up chicks

                          [–]1Entropy-7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          A bottle of vodka has about 1800 calories which is roughly the same as my BMR. A 20k walk burns about 1200. Multiply by 14 and that is about 5 pounds of fat right there. I lost maybe another couple of pounds and then the rest was simply water loss despite my hydrating 3 to 4 litres per day.

                          "Poon" is one of those names that falls in the category of "you can't make this shit up".

                          [–]TheHandsomeMF 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                          eating windows are technically pointless but OK if it makes it easier for you

                          You don't believe in IF?

                          eating clean is BS

                          I don't get it.

                          [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

                          I believe IF exists. But if you are losing weight it is because you are consuming less calories than you are burning. IF is just your preferred method of creating that deficit but not the reason you are losing weight.

                          Eating clean often refers to eating sustainable, organic or non GMO foods. None of that has an effect on weight loss. Those are all ethical choices, not dietary choices.

                          [–]VickVaseline 0 points1 point  (6 children)

                          Congratulations. Now comes the difficult part: maintenance. Please let us know how you do with that.

                          As for starvation mode, I do believe it exists, because I have experienced it. I do agree that its effect is much smaller than generally believed, though.

                          Your post is excellent. I would only add that for those starting out, the book on the subject by John Walker is also excellent. It covers everything that you have outlined and more:

                          https://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/

                          This book may be more attractive to the nerds among us, especially those just starting out.

                          [–]Zahlix[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

                          I wrote about the origin of the starvation mode myth in this comment.

                          Your body basically runs cooler and slower (if you let it) you also sleep more. Your metabolism doesn't really slow down, it just you doing less. So if you keep an active lifestyle you shouldn't notice it.

                          [–]modTheRedPike 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                          Don't hotlink any sub, including our own. However, I will approve this one.

                          [–]VickVaseline 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                          Why is hotlinking (even our own sub) not allowed?

                          I'm not being critical of it, I'm just genuinely curious because I can't think of any possible rationales behind it.

                          [–]modTheRedPike 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          We want to do anything we can to avoid brigading, intentional or unintentional, since we are under the very watchful eye of the admins. Links are fine, but put them through archive.is first

                          [–]VickVaseline 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          I agree 100%.

                          Starvation mode makes me feel cold, tired, and sleepy.

                          [–]thedaynos 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                          i'm no nutrition expert like you, but i found a few things i think you should mention at some point.

                          1) muscle weighs more than fat. that should be understood when you're overweight and lifting. your muscles will gain and fat will be lost, but you might not see so much difference in actual weight because of that.

                          2) cutting artificial sweeteners will help cravings. i realize it's all will power at the end of the day but i don't drink any fake sweeteners but when i consume some on accident, i do end up craving even worse shit by the end of the night. stay away.

                          3) fuck i had another one but forgot. i gotta stop drinking so much

                          good reading tho thanks

                          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                          [deleted]

                            [–]thedaynos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                            man i cut sweeteners out of my diet a while back and lost pretty much all cravings. the only time i drink them is with monster drinks when i just want that quick fix and then by the end of the day i'm thinking about brownies and ice cream and shit. i'm sure there are some people who are not affected the way i am but for me, the shit's real.

                            [–]do_it_or_leave 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Let me just correct a minor point:

                            Lack of proof it isn't affecting people's health isn't proof it isn't unhealthy.

                            All these studies have limited resources and time window. It might still have some impact after 30 years.

                            And not all zero soft drinks use aspartame.

                            And I conclude by saying I drink these soft drinks.

                            [–]phoenix_nz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Holy fuck the amount of retarded cunts in here arguing with OP using anecdotal or incorrect evidence is insane. I thought TRP was meant to be a place of logic and learning not hearsay and stories.

                            OP: I skim read the front end of your post because it's mostly stuff I already knew after losing over 60lbs myself (still a WIP), but your post is right.

                            CICO is everything. It is the be-all and end-all for fat loss. IF, keto, all of it, is just a structure for CICO to be attached to.

                            Metabolism, outside of real genetic disease, adheres to CICO.

                            [–]Camjd10 -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

                            The calories in calories out approach has been pretty heavily disputed though, it's not as if our understanding of the body is cemented. Hormonal research points to sugar and insulin as the most important factor for body fat and weight regulation. Avoiding simple carbohydrates, or carbohydrates all together plus getting a good nights sleep will get you the best results for weight loss.

                            If people are serious about having a sub 10% bmi, they may also want to look into fasting or intermittent fasting.

                            Lastly when it comes to building muscle, there's one phrase that I repeat every time I go to the gym now. HURRY UP AND FAIL. Tim Kennedy's words of wisdom are essential to making any gains in the gym. If you go in and do 3 sets of some arbitrary rep range, and stop when you get to feel a bit of discomfort you won't get stronger. On my last set of each exercise, I completely burn out my muscles, until I can't even move the weight an inch

                            Good luck with your fitness goals everyone.

                            [–]fromdario 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                            Piggy backing on the "hurry up and fail".... Started to do drop sets after my last set, watching myself fail with a very low weight is kinda funny but it does really help exhaust the muscle.

                            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                            [deleted]

                              [–]Camjd10 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                              It's ironic how this sub which prides itself on being awakened, able to see the truth of society while everyone else drones on chewing the blue pill can be so closed minded towards new science. Except its not new science its just science that was buried by the AMA and other lobbies.

                              Do you remember in middle school or elementary school the food pyramid? Do you remember got milk? Well, both of those government-sponsored creations were the stuff of scholarly and scientific consensus at the time but are now, as they were then complete bunk and in fact detrimental to your health. Carbs are bad for you fat is good. There is absolutely no reason to drink milk. Need calcium? Eat some Brussels sprouts or an orange.

                              I recommend reading any one of Gary Taube's books. He covers why CICO, like most of the health industry, is based on poor science.

                              Heres some shorter articles. One of which discusses the " basic principles of energy"

                              https://www.dietdoctor.com/first-law-thermodynamics-utterly-irrelevant

                              http://www.caloriegate.com/calories-in-calories-out/11-experts-demolish-the-calories-in-calories-out-cico-model-of-obesity

                              [–]broscientologist -1 points0 points  (1 child)

                              What do you mean ‘you people’?

                              [–]Systral -4 points-3 points  (6 children)

                              I have to disagree with you in that many females do prefer dad bods. And by that I don't mean obese bodies , but the body of a somewhat muscular guy who has a few kilos of fat overweight.

                              [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

                              [–]ThirdLegGuy -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

                              Genetics and hormonal health is the very base it all stands on. I work out 3.5 days / week, do extensive HIIT cardio, eat only low-GI carbs and lean proteins, and still can't get rid of those last 5kgs of fat around my waist - remnants from sudden 30kg weight gain 10 years ago.

                              My girlfriend doesn't work out, eats sweets like crazy, and is still thin, spots a great natural ass and thin waist. If I eat sweets - seems like ALL eaten weight goes directly to fat.

                              So fuck all that bro science. I'm making liposuction this summer.

                              [–]jmejiasilva99 -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

                              I Like the post. Very encouraging but there are some key points I would argue:

                              -Metabolisms DO come in all shapes and sizes. I understand your point in trying to emphasize that people should not use the excuse of them being at a metabolic disadvantage to rationalize why they shouldn't event attempt to change their diets. But for fucks sake this is the fucking Red Pill. There are different metabolisms that we inherit genetically and guess what GROW THE FUCK UP and fucking deal with the fact that this is your reality. Everyone's body responds to hormonal changes different and accumulate fat in different parts of there body as a result. That's why women tend to have more BF% than men. Just accept the fact that your metabolism might be worse off than others and start self-improving instead of focusing on others.

                              -Organic/Non-processed is NOT BS. I have been Keto for about 2 years now although you technically can get the weight loss benefits of while eating processed meats, it is HIGHLY disapproved. When you begin Keto or any weightloss diet it is normal to still include the process meats (to a reasonable extent) that have unfortunately become the staple of American diets. As you progress though you 100% should look eliminate these foods and replace them with Organic meats. So many of the studies done that vilify Red Meat are actually focused on Processed Red Meats. These processed meats come from unhealthy ass animals that are fed unnaturally diets (like grain instead of grass). You have to be aware that you are also eating the food that your food ate. Therefore you are ingesting all the crap that they feed these fatass animals. Like i said, you can still get the weightloss results from eating these foods but you will be ultimately doing your body a HUGE disservice if you continue eating processed foods.

                              Lastly I just want to point out that weighloss should be seen more as change of lifestyle in which you look to improve your health rather than just some numbers on scale.

                              [–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered]

                              Metabolism are more uniform than you think. On average (ignoring thyroid problems and ovary cysts here) the lowest TDEE abnormality they measured in a study was about -15 % in very sedentary people (read that as literally living on a couch doing NOTHING at all).

                              Organic meats are a strictly ethical choice and will have no effect on weight loss. If you feel a moral need to buy organic meats or prefer them due to taste you can feel free to do so. The only thing relevant for weight loss are the macro nutrients of what you eat. The US is a first world country where I expect the meat to be of FDA approved quality. The choice is yours to make but won't affect your weight loss (what this post is about).

                              [–]jmejiasilva99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                              I think there are is some confusion here that I will try to address. Yes you are correct about the uniformity of TDEE according to the study (interesting read btw). However pay attention to the title of the study, it says "Analysis of energy metabolism in humans...". Metabolism is not only the process of Energy intake and expenditure but also includes how people use this convert macro/micro nutrients into building macromolecules (aka proteins, lipids, carbs, nucleic acids. etcc...). This is where that bitch called genetics kicks in and you see major discrepancies in how effectively people's overall metabolism converts these nutrients. This is basically why for some people Keto really well and for others not as much. Last point, I may not have been clear but I am not refuting your point of weightloss and Processed foods, as I previously said "you can still get the weightloss results from eating these foods". You are right and I also know your post is about weightloss specifically, I am just adding my opinion that when looking for physical-self improvement general well-being should also be taken into account additionally to weightloss.