MetaLessons from My Father and RP Parenting (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by lifestuff69

Sorry for the long wall of text, this is my first topic on this forum. I started reading more about TRP last summer (starting with TRM, which was extremely eye-opening!), but I never felt compelled to post my own topic until now.


TRP has uncloaked a series of previously invisible truths. Among them, I now realize how alpha my father is, and how he taught my brother and I a lot of RP lessons that I took for granted or never even noticed. Reading more RP for the last year has also made me reexamine a few of his examples and lessons, including those that I ignored or didn't fully understand. He and my mother have an excellent marriage (relatively speaking / by LTR standards), and my brother and I are, more or less, well-adjusted (though I still have some work and learning to do for sure). While my parents have certainly had some major disagreements, I have always wondered why they did not fight like other parents I saw growing up - many of whom got divorced or probably will soon. Analyzing their behavior through a RP lens, I think I now understand why.


NOTE: In a lot of these examples I show how my mom tries to lie or be manipulative and how my dad shuts her down. This is not to disparage my mother, but to show that in many ways AWALT. My mom is amazing and I love her dearly.


A Few Ways My Dad Controls Frame


My dad dropped out of school to be a musician and went to Colorado for a few years because he was passionate about music. He can sing, play guitar, and has a lot of great stories he tells selectively. He is talented, interesting, and still has high SMV even at his age (late 60s). He works out every morning now and makes time for himself in the evening to do his own thing (read, watch sports, etc.) and expects not to be interrupted.


My parents are an unlikely pair, and met when my dad was 32 and my mom was 20. On their first date my dad told my mom some (but not all) of his adventures as a musician – talking about all of the friends he made, famous people he met or knew, and hinting at various sexual escapades (DHV). He told her about other girls he was seeing at that moment, including one that wanted to be exclusive with him that he wasn't all that interested in. Even now, he continues to carry an aura of mystery about himself, and while my mom tells my siblings and I that “your father fucked half of Colorado and you probably have some half-siblings somewhere”, even she does not know all of his secrets, as he reveals a new thing about his past every once in a while. My mom usually says “What?! I didn’t know that! You never told me that!”, to which my dad usually replies: “You never asked.” before moving on. More examples on frame to follow.


  • Passes almost every shit test and does not let my mom gaslight anyone:

Even now, my mom constantly shit tests him, and every time she questions him illogically or says something that is incorrect (or crazy) he points out why she is wrong - both firmly and unapologetically. Women have this unique ability to exploit group dynamics to win arguments, shit test, silence, or gaslight (there should be a term for this, and maybe there already is). In my family, my mom has always used family dinners and friendly gatherings to shit test or gaslight my dad and others.


Like most women, she believes that the need to be polite and cordial in front of others will prevent people from calling her and other women out. Not my dad. Just recently, my family was conversing after dinner and my mom started talking about how she always used to be a little fat when she was younger, which is why she is having problems losing weight. She kept looking sheepishly at my dad while she elaborated, and when she was done my dad smiled, looked her right in the eyes and said: "You weren't fat. You were never fat." This is the absolute truth, as my mother was gorgeous and extremely skinny when she was younger.


When she tries to rewrite various aspects of family history, my dad shuts that shit down immediately, and if she carries on he tells her exactly actually what happened step-by-step until my mom submits and admits my dad's version is correct. He does not raise his voice, and usually does it with a playfully skeptical smile on his face. At this point, she usually laughs off the fact that he called her on her bullshit and changes the subject.


  • Flirts with and negs women - even in front of my mom and his kids: (dread game)

Even though he is in his late 60s, my dad still flirts with random women and even lightly flirts with my mom's friends. He never says anything blatantly nasty, but uses sardonic wit and innuendo and then plays it off like it was nothing. A few times, women have come onto my dad in front of my mom and he flirted back a little, which definitely pissed her off, but clearly made her way more clingy and protective of my dad.


Once, my dad and I were in line returning something the day after Christmas and he saw a chick with tattoos of spiders going up her leg. My dad said (quite loudly): "See that girl with the tattoos? Worst case of crabs EVER!" We started laughing hysterically, trying to be as quiet as possible, as the girl clearly heard us and was slightly embarrassed. About a month later, he took my brother to a barbershop and the same chick was there and ended up cutting my brother's hair. He said the same exact thing to her face and said he recognized her from that day after Christmas. He started asking her about her “bad decisions, like getting crappy tattoos”, but did it in a playful and flirty manner, getting the girl to laugh and be comfortable. She ended up cutting my brother’s hair for a year or two, and according to my brother she was always visibly disappointed when my mom dropped my brother off instead of my dad – which pissed my mom off to the point where she would complain about the girl even though she did a good job cutting my brother’s hair. Clearly my mom sees that other women recognize my dad’s value and it makes her jealous.


  • Lets people's imagination fill things in when it benefits him:

During conversations where he is being attacked or might look bad, he dismisses and laughs everything off and moves on. During conversations where he looks good, receives a compliment, or is expected to elaborate on a skill he possesses or experience he had, he smiles, stays silent to qualify the statement, does not elaborate so people wonder exactly how awesome he is or why the statement is true, and then moves on. For example, no one in my family has heard my dad sing except for me and my mom. My mom always says that he has a beautiful voice and should sing more. She even asks him to sing in front of people so they can see it too (shit test). Does he sing because she asks him to? Fuck no. He usually smiles for a while, shrugs modestly, and moves on - usually nonchalantly taking a sip of wine or a bite of steak.


  • Stresses how important it is to stay in shape and make more money than your spouse:

When my parents met, he was 12 years older than her but in great shape. He let himself go off-and-on when I was younger, and when he lost his job my mom also let herself go. Both of them were upset by this, and this is the only time I can really remember them fighting a lot. My dad eventually got a better job making a lot more money than my mom and started working out again every morning – which he does to this day. After people started noticing my dad was in great shape, my mom started working out again too. I don’t think that is coincidence, and neither does my dad. He has told us that if a woman makes more money than you she thinks she can control you, and that if she thinks you aren’t better than her she might let herself go or stop trying. Sound familiar?


  • Almost never compliments my mom directly:

He compliments my mom all the time when she is not around – especially on her musical ability, intelligence, and work ethic (my mom is actually pretty amazing). This sends a positive message to his children (“I love your mom, and you should, too.”), but he knows that the compliment eventually gets back to her through us. In fact, I am pretty sure he counts on it. When I tell my mom “Dad says your voice always mesmerized him”, she gets flustered and says “He literally never tells me that!”, which makes her happy but puts her on edge. This makes his infrequent but direct compliments more meaningful and sincere, while also keeping my mom on her toes. When she fishes for compliments in front of people my dad usually just smiles and says nothing, which drives my mom nuts. He almost never compliments her directly or shows great affection in front of other people.


  • Walks away when he is not interested in something to do his own thing:

Growing up, we had various family friends over for dinner. Some of the dinner conversations became heated political discussions, which my dad wanted nothing to do with. Did he sit there and complain that we should be talking about something else? Did he attack someone when they accused him of having an inferior belief to their own? Nope. He would simply smile, say “I’ll check back in a while.”, leave the room, and do his own thing until he heard the yelling stop. Sometimes he would come back to the conversation, sometime he wouldn’t, but every time this happened he was literally doing something better with his time that he enjoyed. My mom and the other women took notice, and a couple times I remember my mom and her friends started talking about my dad, wondering what he was doing and complimenting him a lot while he was out of the room.


  • Never felt threatened:

My mom was smoking hot when she was younger (in case you were wondering it was great hearing my friends talk about banging her when I was young… >_>), and many of my friend’s fathers took notice. During this time, my dad never showed that he was threatened by any of them. Ever. If they flirted with my mom, he flirted with their wives. Despite not being very tall, he was in better shape than most of them and usually a hell of a lot more interesting. To be fair, my mom grew up in a household with good family values, and when someone made her uncomfortable, either in her head or in reality, she would tell my dad. My dad would then smile, calmly comfort her, and take care of it. He never lost his cool.


Various RP Lessons for Me and My Brother


  • When he fucks up he owns it and moves on:

My dad has made a ton of mistakes in his life, but owns them, imparts his knowledge, and moves on. The biggest mistake he made was getting into debt. Both he and my mom had a ton of credit card debt, my dad lost his job, and they had to borrow money from my grandma to prevent being evicted. My mom actually led the charge on this front to get out of debt, and when my dad didn’t change his behavior my mom actually told my siblings and I and him that if he opened up another credit card she would leave him. Let me rephrase this: the only time my mom has ever threatened to leave my dad was when he didn’t have a job and was incurring credit card debt – this is despite the fact that he supported her for years after she got laid off. He changed his behavior, and since then has encouraged never getting into debt and being smart with money. He has never swayed from this since, and this is but one example of him walking the walk and assimilating an important behavior and lesson into his greater frame.


  • Don't be a knight in shining armor:

When I was in junior high and early high school, I definitely had a white knight complex. I remember talking with my dad once about some girl at school saying something like "So I told her not to hang out with guys like that or she will find herself in a bad situation and people will think she is a slut." My dad shut that shit down and explained to me that protecting other people's honor is misguided, stupid, and an exercise in futility. He explained that I was being controlling, that you can't and shouldn't control people, that everyone makes their own mistakes, that people need to make some mistakes to grow, and that when I got older I would understand that better. He reinforced this any time he suspected me of being jealous or clingy in any of my relationships or when observing my friends’ relationships, and did the same with my brother. He also taught me that when a girl is acting like they need to be saved they just want attention, aren’t interested in you, and probably think you are a pussy. Tough love, but he was right and I learned.


  • One-itis is bullshit:

I had a “serious” relationship with a girl in high school that lasted almost two years. During this time, I would occasionally talk about how she was the one for me and a lot of other pseudo-romantic bullshit. My dad would laugh at this and explain to me how there really isn’t a “one”, and how the notion itself is unhealthy. He would ask hypothetical questions like: “You are 17, what if she got hit by a car? Would you never find another one like her until you die?” or “6 billion people (at the time) in the world and she is the only one for you? Give me a break.” I didn’t agree with him at first because I was young and stupid and getting laid, but over time his skepticism won me over.


Fast forward some years later, some of the biggest fights I had with my ex-wife were about us being the perfect “ones” for each other. I should have seen it as a red flag that we were still having these fights into early adulthood, but I was young and stupid and getting laid. By this time, I had adopted my father’s philosophy that there is no “one”, and that we should just be grateful that we found each other and were happy. This, however, did not work with my ex’s narrative since she wanted to tell people that we both saw each other as “soulmates”. Pardon me while I puke in my mouth a bit. I have my dad to thank for making me see the light on this issue early on.


  • Don’t shit where you eat:

My dad warned me multiple time growing up to never date people at work – especially those you work with directly. He had dated people in the same company before, but never someone who worked with him, or even in the same building. I did this twice, and while one instance was not so bad, the other was a complete disaster that almost ended very badly for me. My dad stressed the importance of being hardworking, confident, and unattached at work so that things don’t get complicated. He also pointed out that men are often most attractive when they aren’t trying to be. He was right.


  • Didn’t let me forget the financial side of love and divorce


When I told my dad I was thinking about divorcing my ex he heard me out and supported me. He showed sympathy, but also immediately pointed out that if I made or inherited significant amounts of money while I was thinking it over, my ex would be entitled to some of it. My ex and I didn’t have kids, so there were luckily no major complications, but I am so happy he was there to bring me down to earth and remind me of the practical side of signing that piece of paper. I went to the courthouse within a few days of that conversation to get it over with.


  • Fuck ‘em:

My dad taught me that respect was earned, and that authority was arbitrary. Both should be questioned constantly, and should not be given or recognized automatically. After getting out of debt, he stressed the value of “Fuck You” money, and definitely did not want to see any of his children be slaves to anything – debt, a job, or a person. If someone gets in your way or tries to stop you: fuck ‘em. Do your own thing. You will find people like you eventually, or others will follow you.


  • Miscellaneous:

My dad is pretty damn funny and witty when he wants to be, so here are a few other miscellaneous truths he told me and my brother growing up:


When I turned 30: "Don’t worry, you can still fuck 20 year olds when you are a billionaire!" My mom overheard this and got pissed at him, but we both laughed hysterically.


"Date the stupid ones, but only marry the smart ones." I told my mom that he would always tell this to me and my brother. She paused for about ten seconds ,then said “He’s such an asshole…” You could tell it made her like him more.


When I was playing Pop Warner football, we played a game against some really rich kids at their field. My dad started pointing out some ugly girls my age in the stands saying “How about that one?” I told him I was a bit confused why he was pointing out only ugly girls, to which he replied: "Marry an ugly rich girl. They will definitely say yes and their parents can pay to make them pretty." This one really made my mom mad when I told her he said that haha.


Last but not least, I have only seen my dad cry twice, and both times he went out of his way to hide it from my mom as best he could. Both times were at funerals for people we really cared about, and the losses were unexpected and absolutely devastating. Still, he stayed calm and collected around my mom because he knew he had to.


Things I have not lived up to (yet):


  • Always stay in shape:

I played basketball, lifted weights, ran, and did martial arts when I was in high school and early college. After getting married, I continued with this until my marriage faltered and I started to let myself go. I went from ~165 to 220 fucking lbs. I am back down to 180, and have recently started to lift and run again.


That said, it is important that you *always stay in shape – no matter what happens in life. Others have said this, and I cannot stress this enough. Don’t get comfortable, because something bad could happen at any moment and you want to be prepared to move on. Unless you were born with a chronic illness or disability, your health and to a large extent your looks, are things that you can absolutely control.


  • Getting completely out of debt:

I still have quite a bit of student loan debt to pay off, and am studying for a second degree (completely my choice). In addition to my full-time job, I do freelance work programming and building websites, and am working on a number of side projects to not only pay this debt off as quickly as possible, but to live the life I want and have a shitload of money so I am ready for anything in life.


I hope that if I ever have children, I can teach them even more RP stuff than my dad taught me.


Thank you to all of TRP people on this forum, and a special shout out to Rollo Tomassi and TRM for opening my eyes the rest of the way. I have purchased your third book but have not had time to read it yet. Something to look forward to! :)

[–]uebermacht 142 points143 points  (3 children)

I get little jealous of you for your awesome dad and life experiences he teaches you!
I appreciate you shared it here.
My dad was a cuck and died poor 13 years ago. I never had a chance to get mentored by a close family member or anyone at all. Learn everything by myself.
Be grateful for your family. You had an unique chance to learn the most important things in life straight from a dad who's holding your family happy together and isn't a cuck.
Oh and by the way: Got a pic of your young mum? ;P

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (2 children)

I am sorry that your dad died, and sorry that you had to learn from others. In a way, it might sink in more since you had to learn from other people and really understand and appreciate the knowledge.

I am extremely grateful for my family. To be fair, I didn't learn all of these lessons immediately, and some of them I only recognized after reading more TRM and TRP. My marriage was definitely a setback for me in a lot of ways. I did not share some of my lowest points in that marriage, and a lot of things my dad tried to teach me were solidified by those experiences. That said, I learned a lot.

Lol no. No pics of my mom! ;)

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

No pics of my mom! ;)

Pics or it didn't happen!

Seriously though, good story. Would make a nice article in Reader's Digest.

[–]2awalt_cupcake 49 points50 points  (6 children)

This is front page material. In an era of lacking father figures even reading about them seems like myth. These are all excellent bullet points and chocked full of example stories.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Thanks! There are other stories, but I thought it was long enough already haha.

One of the things I noticed growing up was the kids that had no fathers or bad fathers had a much more difficult time than kids like me. Their families often had a lot more money and various other privileges than mine did, but you can't beat solid parenting.

[–]2awalt_cupcake 2 points3 points  (2 children)

exactly having a masculine upbringing is invaluable

[–]saurabhshah 1 points1 points [recovered]

To mention the same thing the gentlemen below me said, I'm fucking jealous of you man. My father is a great man and does absolutely everything he can for me and my brother, but he never taught me how to behave or be with the opposite sex. I learned a great lot from your father! Cheers!

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Thanks, and I wish that my dad had taught me more. As I said, a lot of this didn't sink in until I started reading more TRP and TRM. I think that the TRP lens explains this stuff almost perfectly.

[–]GrimsterrOP 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Excellent read, really emphasises how important a relationship between the father and son is. I hope to be like your dad one day.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Me too. I hope to impart even more than he taught me to my children - especially since TRP is teaching me how to conceptualize and communicate the intricacies of what worked better than ever.

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 24 points25 points  (2 children)

Your dad has maintained and grown his dad swag with age. This is very important, and it gets at a truth I read in Victor Frankl's memoir of his time in a concentration camp. Which is that no matter how little freedom you actually have, you can still choose your response and choose your behavior. Frankl's example was talking about his mentality while starving in a cell watching his kin die, but the same principle applies to marriage.

A married man has lost his freedom, he's on the hook via our legal system and if he has kids, he's probably forced to work like a dog to provide for those kids and his wife under constant threat of having it all pulled out from under him. But no matter how fucked you are, no matter how much the situation is out of your control, you still can have swag. AKA you can still behave as though you are the cock of the walk, and act like you have complete freedom and authority.

If your dad was 5% less RP'd, he could have not recovered from the time where he lost his job and they got out of shape and fought a lot. A weaker man wouldn't have bounced back and retaken control of his keep, and then she'd trade up for a dentist beta who'd be happy to stepdad her brood in exchange for some pussy. Then this hypothetical man would have been forced to fight for access to his kids in court, but of course, with his career taking a u-turn and the legal system being what it is, a shark lawyer on her side could have won her primary custody and child support. Now he's depressed and like many men, he's either going through the motions as a slave for his children until they reach 18, praying their minds don't get poisoned against him. Or he just blows his brains out, like many divorced dads do.

Dad swag is that important. A little bit less, well, who knows. Obviously I'm not saying your dad would have been in this position, but another dad with less life experience and knowledge about how to deal with women and life? Absolutely.

Marriage is risk prone, it's a jail, it's a contract where you have to keep her under your control for decades while also keeping her happy and fulfilled, or she can detonate your whole world. But despite that reality, you have to find a way to behave as though you are 100% in control and free. No matter how fucked you are, a man has to be able to smile, not take shit seriously, and not show any signs of worry. Complete confidence with no cracks, that's what it takes, because you have to maintain an illusion of being a patriarch with authority, even though her friends are going to be swapping divorce war stories right and left.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Dad Swag - I love that term! You should seriously add it to the list of definitions in the sidebar.


I think you are absolutely right. Marriage compromises freedom and objectivity, just like any other association you choose to make in life. If my dad hadn't gotten his shit together that very well could have happened, fucking up the lives of my siblings and I.


What I learned from this was that if I ever get married again, I won't do it unless I have a lot of "fuck you" money that is as secure as possible. That way, if I do somehow lose the kids in a divorce settlement I am not completely fucked. In addition, I will never marry a woman who has a shitty job that makes her incapable of supporting herself. Not only does that mean she is a lazy, unambitious person, but it also means that the judge will rule in her favor because she has grown "accustomed" to the lifestyle you provided for her. You correctly mentioned that a woman can detonate your whole world. I have learned that I should do everything possible to lengthen or take away that fuse. There are various legal ways to protect your assets, including prenuptial agreements, putting all of your assets in to an LLC, S- or C-Corp if you own a business, etc. Hiding your assets will get you killed in court, so you have to play the game to protect yourself so she can see but not touch any of that shit. Do this BEFORE getting married if possible.


I know it is not very popular to say on this forum, but I do want kids someday. I don't believe in an afterlife, and I want to experience everything I can in this life - especially more important and potentially fulfilling things like fatherhood. That said, I am in no rush to get there, and won't even consider marrying again until my shit is completely together and I have a lot of money. Even if I somehow found someone worthy of an LTR today, I would explain that I will not commit or put a ring on it until I am where I want to be. Period.

[–]twofones 4 points5 points  (0 children)

But despite that reality, you have to find a way to behave as though you are 100% in control and free. No matter how fucked you are, a man has to be able to smile, not take shit seriously, and not show any signs of worry. Complete confidence with no cracks, that's what it takes, because you have to maintain an illusion of being a patriarch with authority, even though her friends are going to be swapping divorce war stories right and left.


I have been rehashing this all week to the point where I honestly think the math finally broke down for me on this: The only ONLY way to have a successful marriage and happy wife is to maintain the air-tight game you worked so hard to build WHILE you sign away the core advantages to game


1) Mystery. If you are going to be an honorable husband who is worth a damn, she all of a sudden has 100% ability to wrap her head who you are and what you're about. You're about your wife and kids.
From Game 101 we all know what happens to a girl's psychology and vagina when she feels you're all about her. THIS DOES NOT GO AWAY JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE MARRIED OR BECAUSE SHE'S A FUCKING ADULT. Very little surprises me these days but this is MIND BLOWING. There you go being an honorable husband and her vagina dries up with every passing day that you show consistency and responsibility. What. The. Fuck.


2) The ability to walk away. You're married, sooo you're in the hole thousands of dollars in the best case scenario if you decide to walk, and this is without assets and children on the line. And she knows this.


I have always wanted a family. I still want a family so I always viewed my successful game as a means to that end, the fact that the only way to be successful in a marriage is to game your motherfucking PARTNER in life the same way you have to game an 18yo college girl in her first semester away from home looking for her first big-city dick.


There is no distinction between what you MUST do to bang teens your whole life and what you MUST do to game and bang your WIFE your whole life (as per the current social and legal climate). No, just no.


I have an LTR who is literally the #1 girlfriend I could ask for (early twenties, beautiful, hot body, technical line of work, makes less money than I do, threesomes, initiates sex) and she STILL throws house-dad vibes (not the good ones if there are any) at me if I do ANYTHING remotely hints that she is more ambitious than I am (I have a full time job and 6-figure income) like take care of the cat (I've known the cat since it was a kitten, I fucking love that cat), or crash at her place (because I'm a team player), or sleep in any longer than she does. - If I do any combination of these within 48 hrs, she gets snappy, bitchy, starts wording questions as commands, and stops initiating.


Yes, I know, I give her a huge dose of silence until she's nice again and a huge dose of dick when she comes around, repeat, forever. I know, I've done this for 16 years with dozens of amazing women. I'm drawing the line at doing this forever with someone who is supposed to be my partner in life - the concept of partnership is a libido killer for women - no matter how NECESSARY the end (a good marriage, husband, and family). Unless she is literally TERRIFIED of ending up on the streets with no money or anyone to marry a woman CAN'T maintain her attraction to someone she shares the same lifestyle with her. Our society has done away with this fear, and the most reasonable, intelligent, and committed woman is still going to dry up on you as the consistency sets in and she will have no answers or solutions for you. You already know what the answer, Game.


Anyway, this probably should have been its own post/rant, but let's just say I have been voraciously reading about surrogacy and clearing my head to see if I'm missing something or there's something I'm doing wrong because it looks like it may be time to let her know I don't plan on marrying anyone.


Good luck out with your LTR's everyone.

Edit: spacing

[–]Reformed65 1 points1 points [recovered]

Your informative post is contributing, I realised however that you were telling your mom about the assholic things your dad would tell you, I got a couple of laughs from that reading her reactions.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When I told my mom those things I knew what her reaction would be. I have a feeling my dad wanted me to haha. ;)

[–]rmandan 3 points4 points  (4 children)

This would be pass for a great essay in the fucked school system of today... if it weren't for the "crazy" ideas of TRP. Nice work man! I loved it!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Thank you. The school system is a disaster. I made the decision that if I have children they are going to a good private school, or, if I have the time and money, they will be home schooled and privately tutored by actual experts. I can't stress enough how much school was a waste of time for me, and if my kids have half the irreverence I do they won't be happy sitting in a desk all day either.

[–]rmandan 3 points4 points  (2 children)

The only thing I have ever gained out of school is social skills. Definitely find an alternative sport. A homeschooled neighbor of mine can't even look me in the eye, or finish a sentence without stumbling over his words due to insecurity. Best of luck to you man!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thanks! Yeah, I know how you feel. I grew up in California, and one of my friends growing up went to elementary school with me until 3rd grade or so and then his parents pulled him out and home schooled him. Within a couple of years, he could only really function with the friends he made before being homeschooled, which was me and a couple other kids. His parents were super religious, though, and that definitely had something to do with it. I ran into him a few years back and he seems to have turned out pretty normal, though. Despite all this he was one of the nicest people I ever knew.

I live in Utah now, and some of the smartest, most affable, and most accomplished children I have ever met are homeschooled. In this state, the LDS church finds ways to discriminate in public schools. For instance, the PTA (Parent-Teacher Association) gets loaded with parents from the church, they organize "school" events around the church and leave children out, they let the mormon kids leave half way through the day to go to church, and so forth. I did not grow up here and never experienced any of this, but apparently it is pretty common closer to Provo.

It is pretty fucked up, and some parents get so fed up that they pull their kids out and educate them properly. I hope to be one of those parents.

[–]rmandan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Totally! Especially that far out west. The closer to Cali the worst. I'm on the complete other side. About a half of the teachers here are hyper-liberal. It's probably 95% out there!

Raise some good kids man! Too fucking many are raised by pussies of dads. You're the man!

[–]smyger 3 points4 points  (6 children)

What is TRM? Sorry I am new.

[–]GunnarX 4 points5 points  (0 children)

'The Rational Male' by Rollo Tomassi. I recommend this with every fibre of my being.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

[–]1redHussar 1 point2 points  (1 child)

When I read your story I thought for a second that Rollo is your father ;)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hahaha. Rollo's contributions to RP parenting are going to be more and more important as he develops his techniques and shares them with us. I'm excited, since I won't consider getting married again or having kids for at least another 5+ years.

[–]_flashpoint 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Rational Male. Highly recommend you read it.

[–]thealchemistguy 3 points4 points  (1 child)

"Put it in their ass quickly, take it out slow." My Dad...

[–]dreaborn 3 points4 points  (1 child)

This is best post here this year for me.I didn't read something like this for a years.I am jealous of you having father like that.I wish your family all best.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks, brother. It means a lot. Be an even better dude and father in your life. :)

[–]cashmoney_x 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Fuck man, meanwhile at my house.....an insecure, angry, blue pill cuck of a father who didn't teach me shit, screamed and hit us, beat us with belts, berated us, and tried to force garbage ideas on us.

And of course a fat, screaming, angry, abusive mother who thought sewing needles were a good disciplinary tool.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Man that sucks. The best thing to do is be better than them, no matter how good or bad they were. I have a feeling you will be. :)

[–]cashmoney_x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm 35; I far surpassed them long ago. Although I don't hold much of anything against them as we all are products of a myriad of factors well beyond our control.

Still, anything else would have been nice.

[–]Ramazotti 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Thanks for this! one of the greatest posts I have read in a while on TRP: informative, useful and funny as heck. And most importantly, an example of positive masculinity throughout.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you kindly. I hope my son writes this type of shit about me one day haha.

[–]Taguroizumo 3 points4 points  (1 child)

He seems like a cool cat, you do also. Thanks for the read. No matter how bad things are one should aspire to greatness even if it is going up one single step of the ladder.

[–]maverick99x9 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Great read and you are lucky to have a father figure like this. My father would be complete opposite to what your father is and for the most part made me and my brother a beta for most of my life till now. As they say like father like son. For my whole life I had never had a moment which I could have looked at my father and admire him for what he is. Due to his beta nature my mother, his friends, family no one gives him any respect or admiration. Even though he is such a loser in his life I always want to give him the best life at least in his later years( he's 58 btw) because with all his limitations( small frame, sickly and low confidence) he and my mom( she has suffered a lot) have done a lot to give me and my brother stable life and education for which I will repay him with the best. Feeling jealous about you having such a great father. But thanks to forums like TRP I've started living like an alpha now and even though it hurts a lot at times( because of my genetic beta) I think with time it will change with good lessons from all of you guys and most importantly working on myself always.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The fact that you are grateful for what your parents struggled to give you, and the fact that you want to repay it and give your parents the best life possible as thanks, makes you a better man than most. You sound like an awesome dude. That takes a lot of courage and strength, but make sure to take care of yourself first. Self-sacrifice and altruism are not ideals we should hold in high regard.

[–]maverick99x9 2 points3 points  (1 child)

True,currently I have nothing to worry about in life other than myself and my goals, so my focus is to be the best that I can. And after that I can go and help others who are struggling.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is the best way to do it, brother.

[–]jonpe87[🍰] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Thank you! Amazing person your dad.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes he is. I strive to be a better man than he is, and it will take me a lifetime.

[–]WhiteBeamz 1 points1 points [recovered]

I'm saving this post. Thanks for the great knowledge.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll pass along the thanks to my dad the next time I see him.

[–]PM_ME_UR_PROJECTS 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I would occasionally talk about how she was the one for me and a lot of other pseudo-romantic bullshit. My dad would laugh at this and explain to me how there really isn’t a “one”, and how the notion itself is unhealthy. He would ask hypothetical questions like: “You are 17, what if she got hit by a car? Would you never find another one like her until you die?” or “6 billion people (at the time) in the world and she is the only one for you? Give me a break.”

I don't believe in "the one" either, but I always thought it was a normal thing to say to a girl you are in exclusive LTR with (meaning by "the one" that you are committed to her and only her).

Has your dad ever communicated the idea that there's no "the one" in front of your mom, and if he did what was her reaction and how would he describe the relationship with her (aka if she asks "if there's no "the one" what are we then?")

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"The one" here is a synonym for "soulmate", the best and only person you are supposed to be with. I think it is normal in an exclusive LTR that they are "the only one", but I don't personally think a soulmate exists. We could have happy, fulfilling lives with different people if we met them at the right time and the circumstances were right.

As for your question: yes. We would talk about it at the dinner table sometimes, and my mom completely agrees that there isn't only one person in the universe that can make you happy.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

My main takeaway from this is to keep it light. Sounds like he was always on his path, enjoying your company while he could, enjoying his own time when he wanted, not taking your mother too seriously, and never feeling he had to qualify himself to others. Thanks for sharing.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the comment. Yeah, he just DGAF. The funny thing is, you can tell he does when something serious happens (someone is sick or injured, my divorce, etc.), but he keeps cool.

[–]_MysticFox 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Great post. I have a some questions

1) Where and how did your dad find a quality girl so much younger than him? What advice would he have for us now?

2) How would your dad have handled having a daughter?

3) Why did you end up "worse off" than your dad despite him being RP as fuck?

4) Why did your dad never sing in front of people? Would he hold back even if the whole audience asked? How do you say no to that?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1) Where and how did your dad find a quality girl so much younger than him? What advice would he have for us now?


Here is the story as I understand it: My dad managed restaurants at the time and befriended one of my mom's best friends. My mom was in a band and this mutual friend recommended that my dad go to one of her shows. He went to her show, thought she was awesome, and ran into her the very next day and said that he saw her play. Her friend said good things about my dad and gave him a lot of value and credibility. My parents both really liked music, so they hit it off. My mom was a rare breed, in that she was an ambitious and talented 20 year old who came from a household with strong family values (Scots-Irish / Catholic). She had a great mother and father, who consequently ended up being two of the most important people in my life. Her father was an extremely tough and humble man that fought in WW2, both her parents were teachers, and both were very hard workers (especially my grandfather). I can't speak for my dad, or help you define a "quality" women since the definition is different for everyone, but I will say this: if you are looking to find an LTR or settle down, a girl's upbringing is a pretty damn good indicator of a "quality" woman. A woman that comes from a fucked up household is going to have a ton of issues (lying, cheating, triggers, maybe BPD, etc.). This is true for men as well. Before you commit to exclusivity, let alone put a ring on it, make sure she has a stable foundation, no history or family history of mental illness (I'm serious), that she can take care of herself and doesn't depend solely on you, and that your assets are secured. Above all else, remember that in many ways all women are the same (AWALT!). No matter how great a woman may seem on the surface, plan for the worst and never let your guard down.


2) How would your dad have handled having a daughter?


I didn't mention it here, but he has one! My sister is 11 years younger than I am, and he is a great dad to her. She is almost 19, and for better or worse my sister is kind of an anime/arts nerd. She is pretty introverted like me (I am busy and prefer to be by myself most of the time, but rage once or twice a week), and hasn't really started dating yet. I started having sex pretty early (15), but my brother didn't until college, joined a frat, and crushed it haha. She is more like my brother in that regard. When she starts dating, we will see how he handles it, but as far as I can tell he has been a great dad to her so far.


3) Why did you end up "worse off" than your dad despite him being RP as fuck?


I don't think I said I was worse off anywhere in the post. I am divorced, and have not fully internalized or lived up to all of his lessons yet, but I think that just takes time, life experience, and building maturity. In many ways I am better off than my dad (e.g. I finished college and have more economic opportunity than he did at this age). As I said in the post, my dad taught me a ton of lessons directly, but I did not fully understand a lot of the things he did until reading TRP.


4) Why did your dad never sing in front of people? Would he hold back even if the whole audience asked? How do you say no to that?


Only he can answer that, but I think there are at least two answers. First: he is very passionate about music and does it mostly for him at this point in his life, and I relate. My ex-wife never saw me play music once, and there are some things that I am passionate about that move me that I don't want to share with other people (at least not right now). Music, writing, etc. My dad is the same way. Second: it would break his frame. He doesn't do things because people tell him to or ask him to, and I think he would rather keep you guessing about how good he is. He doesn't have anything to prove, so he is only going to play when he feels like it. He does not sing very often, but he plays guitar all the time at home when he is bored - usually when watching TV or when everyone is getting ready to go somewhere. He also liked to play for our family dog growing up a lot haha.


[–]follow_that_rabbit 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Eh. Wish my dad was like yours.

Great read though, keep up, mate.

[–]PowergamesEnchanted 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Great post man! My father was always an alpha in our family, and as yours, my parents were really good looking in their youth. But my dad always had some pretty major anger issues, still does. I still live at home, and work for my dad at his company. Working, and living close with my dad i get business and life advice everyday. I learned from the behaviour i didn't like about him, and copied the superb behaviour that made him a great business man. TRP helped me get the sex, and social behaviour better (i'm 19 now) I read everyday, lift 3-4 times a week, and study business on the side, hopefully start on my masters next year. Those of us who are lucky to have alpha dads, and found TRP early can praise ourselves fucking lucky. Always self-develop, always work hard, always belive in your self. And i hope your great dad lives a long life

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for that, and I know that you will be an even better man than your's. That is all we can really hope for. It sounds like you are on the right track.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Guys interested in this topic may also like Things My Father Taught Me

[–]Mithra9009 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It's really odd to me that your father went into music in College, believed in protecting people's freedoms but at the same time, isn't a total cuck. How the hell did that happen?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hahaha no idea. That said, he studied business in college and dropped out to do music.

[–]Wokiip 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Loved it. Thanks for sharing! Saved it to read later again and again.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 1 point2 points  (1 child)

authority was arbitrary

This is a point a lot of people totally miss. There is no divine entity that imparts authority. Though this is the exact mechanism that kings and queens used for thousands of years to legitimize their rule--that they were the rulers because their respective gods said so.

The truth is that authority comes from the consent of people. The people might be a democracy. Those people might be the army and secret police of a despot. It is entirely a human construct. So while politically you might have to behave under an authority lest you get beheaded or whatnot, IN your head never accept authority just because they say so.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly. I think Carl Sagan said this best about science, and it applies to just about everything else in life:

“Arguments from authority carry little weight – authorities have made mistakes in the past. They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better way to say it is that in science there are no authorities; at most, there are experts.”

[–]PinHunter65 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Im glad your dad taught you everything you needed to know. Why are you on here? My dad didnt teach me shit, so can take your dad story and piss the hell off.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Haha not everything, and like I said in the post I didn't notice how he handled shit tests (or what they were for the most part) until I started reading TRM and TRP last summer. Many of the A Few Ways My Dad Controls Frame examples were things he didn't directly teach us that I noticed later in life, while the examples in the Various RP Lessons for Me and My Brother section were things he taught my brother and I explicitly. I still need to internalize a lot of that stuff (shit tests, escalation, etc.), and it is interesting reading different perspectives about a lot of these things in the TRP community.

[–]rocacu 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Bro this was good to read, thanks for sharing!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

He also taught me that when a girl is acting like they need to be saved they just want attention, aren’t interested in you, and probably think you are a pussy.

happened to me few days ago.

: /

my dad never taught me this.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It happens dude. Learn it, internalize it, and pass it on to your kids and men you trust. Cheers! :)

[–]PsyMonk- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I fucking wish I had your dad....

[–]AkiRa84 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Cute post. I'm noticing some similarities with my parents, but some things bug me.

I never noticed my mom gaslighting. Is that normal for married people there?

What makes you think that asking your dad to sing was a shit test from your mom? Shit tests are supposed to be unreasonable. This was the opposite.

And I would love to know why you divorced? Was it about something that your dad could have prepared you for?

[–]mushroom_overlord 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I never noticed my mom gaslighting. Is that normal for married people there?

It may be that your definition is a little less loose than OP's. Either way, attempting to rewrite history an extremely common manipulative tactic or testing tool that women will subconsciously use if needed. Whether it is normal or not, it is something you need to look out for and respond to accordingly by holding frame.

[–]Drumcode-Equals-Life 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yup, women will always re-frame a story to fit their narrative, just look at all the men who've been great boyfriends/husbands for years and years, but then make one mistake and suddenly they're the devil who abused the woman the entire relationship according to her and her friends. Hell, the woman could cheat and sleep around while still finding a way to blame the guy for her actions.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never noticed my mom gaslighting. Is that normal for married people there?

In my experience, yes. My mom is much more gregarious and extroverted around her friends than most women, but AWALT.


What makes you think that asking your dad to sing was a shit test from your mom? Shit tests are supposed to be unreasonable. This was the opposite.


Good question. The reason this is a shit test is that she knows my dad doesn't like to do this in front of people anymore. My brother and I are kind of like this, actually. I can play the piano and guitar, but I do it for me and not to impress other people. My ex-wife never saw me play music once. Seems odd, but that is just how I am with music. Maybe some of you guys have something that you are so overwhelmingly passionate about that it moves you and isn't for other people. Anyway, she was asking him to do something that she knew he didn't like to do in front of other people - simply because she asked. That is what made it unreasonable.


And I would love to know why you divorced? Was it about something that your dad could have prepared you for?


I'll write another post about this at some point so you can learn from me being a dumbass haha. I could have stayed married if I wanted to, and it was my choice to get divorced. Needless to say I was unhappy. If I had read more TRP earlier I would have recognized and internalized some of my dad's teachings earlier, and either kept my marriage in a good place or never married the chick at all. As I said in the post, some of this stuff didn't sink in until last summer when I started reading TRM and TRP. Even now, I still fail the occasional shit test and have a lot of learning to do. More than anything else, I need to get my n-count higher! ;)

[–]thefaceless_097 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This post made me thought about how i grew up as an infant and trought teenage years. Your dad was right, you cant control and souldn't control people and surprise, thats what i did when girls told me they were sad due to this guy, etc etc. I remember the anger when giving advice to the girl, she nods, agrees, and after few days was crying again for the same guy and same reasons. Thank you for the post dude, saving it.

[–]welshmin 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The dad we all wish we had, what a BAMF (literally).

Also, isn't it interesting how you someday realise your mother isn't perfect? AWALT. Recently experienced this myself.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is true. It is odd to see our parents as regular, vulnerable human beings.

[–]S-Blaze 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Your dad is a wise guy and so are you. Good read

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks. I've still got a long way to go though haha.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 0 points1 point  (1 child)

When I turned 30: "Don’t worry, you can still fuck 20 year olds when you are a billionaire!" My mom overheard this and got pissed at him, but we both laughed hysterically.

Hmm and what was she doing when she was 20

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hahaha just saw this! Too true!