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Blue Pill ExampleI snooped at her messaging, and I'm know a better man thanks to it. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by JacquesNicoleSonne

What a clickbait!

I’ll start with some background so the still not-so-sure-about-everything-we-say-here-is-true-believers can relate to this story.

I also add that I’m generally pretty, pretty good at reading people. Like i’ve been cheated on before and I Sherlocked it quite fast, and I have some good knowledge of human cognition/body language. And still, I never found out of anything I’m about to post now. You think that you’ll know the day she decides to dump your sorry ass or cheat on you ? Yeah ? I would have bet my life on it aswell, but not anymore.


I was a blue piller for, well most of my life. i'm 26, so judge if you will. Had a 3years LTR end up because I wasn’t able to deal with the relation bullshit no more (that foreshadowing tho), so after that I had a bit of a monk phase. From that point, I absorbed bits and bits of the red pill, implementing, experimenting in my daily life.

It was fun.

Then I met my current girlfriend with whom I’ve been for a bit more than a year. We’ve had our ups and our downs, but as most relationships I suppose, nothing too bad. We always communicate and stuff. I feel like I’m raising up, showing her when she’s pulling some bullshit or hamstering, she seems to grasp most of it (seems is the key word here). The sex is good (thankfully !), she is fun to be around, well, I learned not to ask for too much in LTR and to enjoy the ride while it’s my turn.

Yesterday, I logged on Firefox instead of Chrome and I was in her FB account . I generally trust her, as far as I can trust another human being, but the curiosity got the best of me.

I looked at most of her messaging history.

Talk about swallowing the pill the hard way. I’ll quickly sumamrize what I learned about the girl I thought I knew more than anyone else :


  1. Everytime we had a fight, minor or major (at some point she said she wanted to break up with me ????), she complained to at least 3-4 friends. Some people that I meet on a weekly basis. It’s like she genuinely can’t think alone, she needs her friends’ help to process the arguments we have. I don’t think she is stupid, doing Masters’ studies and everything, but that sure says a lot about women in general.

  2. I had trouble saying « I love you », thanks to you guys I guess. I dont know what love is anymore, so I had to wait a year to say it, not to lie to her or just « say it ». Anyway. It was kind of a sensible topic because she said it first and I pulled a Han Solo (hardcore unvolontary dread, the best). The day I told her back she seemed happy and everything, well apparently « it changed nothing » and « she didn’t feel the butterflies», according to a convo she had. Well, she is a good liar as well, I’ll give her that.

  3. She has had sex with more guys than she admitted to me, I found like 10 different stories, at least (How shocking). Well I know she had fun in her youth (she is 24 now, yeah how sad is this). I KNOW this isn’t a competition, but I feel like I lost by the numbers. Anyway.

  4. She didn’t find me fit, or even pretty, compared to her ex boyfriends. Ok this one hurt to read, but I used to be obese, and has some stretchmarks on my belly. She said that she feels bad for saying it (oh, sweetie !) but she found it kinda disgusting when we fucked the first time. Oh, and I apaprently have a small dick.

  5. She keeps talking with an ex (just talking ?) who cheated on her. Let that sink in. She, a strong independant woman is still talking to an ex who cheated on her, because they work in the same industry, so they might need contacts from each other. I know this is true, but she never told me that she were still talking to him. Oh, and she dreamed about having sex with exes as well (not gonna blame her for that, I had dreams about past references too) That ex was also the biggest she ever had. Fair enough then.

  6. Her conversation is filled with so much bullshit including be not limited to tv show, drama, clothes, what she ate/is eating/will eat…. Like erratic convo, straight from a child’s mouth, going from one topic to the next with no link. This one shocked me,it was straight from reading an old MSN convo (Remember Messenger ?) I might have had at 14… It just make her look stupid to be honest

  7. Last but not least, this sentence : « Before I met JacquesNicoleSonne, I never thought I would find someone as good as my ex regarding sex and cuddles. Now that I’ve found him, I know I can find another »

Welp, that’s true love right here kids. At least this place taught me to take it with amused mastery, I can imagine my younger self crying over a message like this. Well, who’s crying now ?


But hey, everything’s not so bad. Her friends actually give her good advice and call her on her bullshit, i’m as good as her ex regarding sex (and cuddles), she finds that I dress well and she « loves me so much » and she finds me smart. And at least she’s not cheating, right ?

The day I read her messages was one of the best in my life. This is what AWALT is all about.

I won’t dump her, as I really enjoy her company and the sex (yeah it goes both sides), but suddenly I found that my motivation to go to the gym, to take care of myself and to generally improve my SMV just rose up…Who knew ?


Bottom line is :

Even if she loves you, even if you love her, she can and will leave you if you let her treat you as such. Enjoy your turn, as long as you want it to be, it will come to an end. At least, I’m preparing for it while enjoying the show. She is not the prize, you are the prize. **


[–]dRePe_Thill 511 points512 points  (38 children)

Mind blowing sentence from her (JacquesNicoleSonne is OP):

"Before I met JacquesNicoleSonne, I never thought I would find someone as good as my ex regarding sex and cuddles. Now that I’ve found him, I know I can find another"

Hypergamy at work boys another great post to keep us motivated.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 150 points151 points  (26 children)

Hypergamy is real, embrace it or lose it!

[–]1FunAndFreedom 242 points243 points  (23 children)

I did a similar investigation on two ex-girlfriends and it mirrored your experience. Honestly, I think it's a terrific idea to read their chat logs, you would get eviscerated in public for admitting this, but you learn so much.

Experience 1: When I was starting my career as a landlord I was with a girl who was so sweet and appreciative to my face. We were together for a year and things were great, I could hear wedding bells in my head. But when my curiosity got the better of me I read her chats. I found she would insult me to her friends and complain that my income was low (of course I paid all the bills while pouring excess money into down payments for investment properties. She also loved staying at my house instead of with her mom). She didn't understand that if I bought a property with 30k+ in equity which I could pay off in 10 years that this added to my wealth, she only saw the $300/mo it would bring in the short term, but I digress.

I wrote off the insults as a female type of idle banter that guys would have in a gym, convinced myself it didn't mean anything and I was a jerk for spying on her. Of course once I started I couldn't stop. Eventually over the course of half a year I found her chatting with other guys, talking sexually and getting ready to branch swing. Being blue pilled I thought she was just flirting and I could just be a 'better man' and turn her around. Then I found her leaving a message to some guy asking "why won't you sleep with me", I confronted her with this and she acted all offended and said "I meant he should sleep over at my house", yeah she used the phrase "my house" as in the house FunAndFreedom owned. That was a life lesson and of course I severed.

Experience 2: I was dating a young 19 y/o girl who claimed to be a virgin. She was funny and innocent and appeared to be the most pure girl you could imagine. Turned out through reading her chats that she was actually telling the truth! I also learned that while she was anxious to lose her virginity, once she did pop her cherry she wanted to sleep with, in her words, dozens of guys. Funny enough, she was pouring her heart out to an orbiter who was completely in love with her. He paid for everything when they were together, he took her on trips on his dime, met her parents, but never progressed past a friend. She knew he was in love with her but she kept him on a string. I imagine that every conversation ripped her orbiter's heart to pieces.

So after I slept with her I knew I had to stay emotionally distant. Ironically I was using TRP tactics without even knowing it, this emotional distance kept her from sleeping around for a while. I kept an eye on her conversations but eventually even miss pure virgin started to chat with other guys. Later on I saw a message she sent to a girlfriend in another language that translated roughly to "Oh I'm single, but my boyfriend doesn't know it yet". Taking my lessons from Experience 1 I broke up with her the next day.

It was one of the most satisfying things in the world to break up with her via facebook message. I never bargained with her, never answered her follow up calls, I just briefly told her I was moving on with no details. What drove her insane was that she never knew the reason. Suddenly her chat logs to her friend were full of self doubt. She was asking if she was ugly, if her breasts were too small, how some whore must have been better than her in some way. It really took her self esteem down a notch. For whatever reason she changed her login a few days later, but I was satisfied knowing that the breakup was emotionally traumatizing for her.

[–]Duchat 46 points47 points  (0 children)

Well written, good story. should be a post all on its own.

[–]JohnnySkidmarx 39 points40 points  (1 child)

Broke up via Facebook and had her questioning her self worth. Bravo!

[–]yomo86 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Might be projection. If girls break up not in person, usually they made up their mind and that usually equals a mate of a significantly higher SMV than yours.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (13 children)

How did you get their logins?

[–]A139380 points points [recovered]

Gfs often will use your computer/device and don't log off, or you can use a keylogger. The former always worked for me :p

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (10 children)

Most emails and social media now have a function where if you login from a new device it will send you an alert.

[–]1kenpachitz 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Which will trigger the first time she logs in on your device/PC.

After that, she probably won't know unless she specifically looks up logged in times/devices.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I've had it happened more than once unless the device is remembered. Perhaps I'm wrong, it's happened before.

[–]1kenpachitz 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I see what you mean.

I think that if the device hasn't logged in after x time, it treats it as a new one.

That or the platform is just suspicious of a user being online on 2 separate devices.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also, if you login from the same device but a different browser it will do the same thing.

[–]Jaridan 0 points1 point  (4 children)

And this matters why? This only helps if someone hacked your account or got your login information elsewhere.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Let's say she logs into her facebook with your computer and your keylogger captures her login credentials. She does not however select "remember this device" when prompted. She goes about her day and you log into her facebook. She will get an email stating that there has been a new login to her account.

The same is true for not only facebook (which I no longer have), but also gmail.

When I log into my personal gmail from work, then I get an email to another email account stating what just happened.

[–]Jaridan 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yes, that's a scenario but most of them, over a long period of time will probably "acknowledge" the device to make the annoying tickbox go away that pops up every time.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

They'll have to have used your device multiple times before you enact this then

[–]boom_bostic 0 points1 point  (1 child)

But you left out whether you popped that cherry or not!

[–]1FunAndFreedom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I thought that was implied, but yes i did.

[–]1StuttBuffer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah copy and paste this into its own post buddy.

[–]Kolbykilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Later on I saw a message she sent to a girlfriend in another language that translated roughly to "Oh I'm single, but my boyfriend doesn't know it yet". Taking my lessons from Experience 1 I broke up with her the next day.

When a girl breaks up with you she typically broke up with you way before that but push came to shove and she finally had to cut you off after typically gas lighting you for weeks on end meanwhile driving (beta's) into insanity to the point where you both agree to part ways so the woman can give her ego a pat on the back for begin a good person lmao.

[–]1jb_trp 52 points53 points  (1 child)

She'll keep going up the elevator of the "husband department store," but when she gets to the top, she'll find she never was happy with any of them. Good riddance, right?

[–]sj2k 30 points31 points  (1 child)

I gotta admit I also think this way. Since I started sleeping with women that are way better than my initial one-itis, it just motivates me to find another.. and another.. and another

[–]TurduckenII 28 points29 points  (2 children)

"Sex and cuddles" = Passing shit tests and comfort tests = AF/BB and the hypergamous strain of trying to optimize the two in one man.

[–]Surfac3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damn I never thought of it that way.

[–]shonthered 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nice observation. Was just about to post this.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't thinking this same thing after I met my current girl though.

[–]lnTheRearWithTheGear 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Who here hasn't felt the same way? Seriously, you guys bitch at women for this attitude, but every single person feels this way. This is the joy of outcome independence. This is freedom.

[–]Areu4realm8 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you dont love her, you just think you cant do better. Op's girl had oneitis for his ex, and thought she couldnt do better. Now that she finded another one, she understanded that oneitis is a farce, and we can fall in love a lot of times in our life,if we meet high smv people. This happens to both women and men. its normal.This is not hypergamy, this is just a normal person who falls in an out of love just like adults do. She is not a bluepill child anymore, who believes in one love for life.

[–]Platos_slow_brother 213 points214 points  (90 children)

She has had sex with more guys than she admitted to me, I found like 10 different stories, at least

Before I met JacquesNicoleSonne, I never thought I would find someone as good as my ex regarding sex and cuddles. Now that I’ve found him, I know I can find another

This is what inability to pair bond looks like. You are about as vital to her as that expensive purse or her favorite pair of designer shoes.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 45 points46 points  (88 children)

In a way, that's good?

I don't want her to depend on me because I don't depend on her. But there's one thing to think it and another to say it.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 192 points193 points  (73 children)

This is what inability to pair bond looks like.

In a way, that's good?

It depends on what you want.

Here's another Red Pill for you - take this one with a big glass of water:

The only way a woman will remain faithful to you is if she believes that her well-being depends upon your sticking around.

The corollary to Briffault's Law is that a woman will continue to associate herself with you if she believes that you provide her with some survival advantage that is too important to risk losing. This is the ONLY way to guarantee faithfulness in a relationship.

If you want your woman to remain faithful, she must feel inferior to and dependent upon you.

Why do you think casual sexism was so rampant in the past? It was society's collective method for keeping women's self-esteem low so that they would remain faithful to their husbands.

[–]Oz70NYC 31 points32 points  (1 child)

I'm currently in the beginnings of a LTR...I guess. Not really sure. She's an HB7. Cute Hispanic girl. Late 20s, pretty face but not super model. A little weight to her (about 5'6" 160lbs) but "she got a donk"...and I like big butts...I can not lie.

Anyway, at first she was just a plate. Another chick I met on Tindr. But she started to grow on me, and I allowed her to stick around. That's when she realized I was more then an awesome fuck for her. Naturally if I'm striving to achieve more in life for myself, I surround myself with people of the same ilk. She came to see she could gain more socially from me. I introduce her to more experiences. Better social circles. Stuff way more valuable then money.

Her view of me changed in the fact that I brought substance and purpose to her life. She knows she's just along for the ride though, so she stays in line because she can easily be replaced. A fact that has come up in convo.

Her: Why do you have so many female friends?

Me: Same reason Jay Leno has so many cars. I never know which one I might wanna ride next.

Part of me wants to LTR her, the other part wants to toy around with her and see if she breaks. But yes...the definitive way to keep a woman is to establish she has no power of you. It's a privilege for her to be with you, not vice versa.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 45 points46 points  (18 children)

The only way a woman will remain faithful to you is if she believes that her well-being depends upon your sticking around.

I'll have to let that sink in, thanks for sharing this powerful quote man

[–]Endorsed Contributorsqerl 30 points31 points  (0 children)

The only way a woman will remain faithful to you is if she believes that her well-being depends upon your sticking around.

I'll have to let that sink in, thanks for sharing this powerful quote man

For those contemplating marriage or ultimately having a kid, remember: "no fault divorce"

The day she decides not to be faithful anymore, the law is in her favor to ensure you're on the hook for her well-being.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

I argue you can give the same feeling, abundance and DGAF triggers similar emotions.

Since we can't get tigers to roam the streets, and she can earn her own money, you no longer need to be a high earner, or strong man. Yet still, they are attracted to them.

You can hit the self esteem, without beating it down, simply by acting and being high value enough for pre selection on the regular. It triggers the same thing

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (3 children)

You are confusing the qualities that keep a woman attracted with the qualities that keep her faithful.

She has to think you will find out and dump her and give no fux or she will cheat with lesser males.

A man cant just relax

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Does op want a wife? It sounds like she got demoted to live in plate. What does he care if shes faithful now?

Maybe a pregnancy, but thats outside this discussion. Unless hes added on, it sounds like hes gonna fuck her for as long as he wants, and when she pushes for more cut her loose.

Am i misreading his answers?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

no idea, I was speaking generally.

If OP does marry at least he knows what he is getting into and more importantly he can decide what a woman can actually provide

[–]frozen_yogurt_killer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, you're reading his answers correctly

[–]theONE843663[🍰] 15 points16 points  (10 children)

The only way a woman will remain faithful is if you get a virgin that perceives herself to be at least 3 points lower than you in SMV.

[–]BoalG 18 points19 points  (0 children)

That's conjecture, not fact... But also not far from a hard truth. Have an upvote.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 6 points7 points  (6 children)

In my experience virgins are more hyped to ride the CC more than anyone else.

[–]theONE843663[🍰] 3 points4 points  (5 children)

Okay bro I figured this shit out. Only possible way is that if you get a virgin that is blind. That'll work for sure. And virgins raised properly tho not your average 16 year old.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 1 point2 points  (1 child)

My oneitis was a 19 year old virgin. Was actually a huge cock gobbling slut.

[–]theONE843663[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's the culture man I don't think it's possible in the West. But who cares LTRs are so overrated.

[–]antariusz 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Virgin blind mute 16 year old on a desert island. With access to no other men or women.

Or you can ACTUALLY swallow the red pill and stop trying to find a unicorn. There are no unicorns.

[–]theONE843663[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Or imagine a perfectly feminine AI realistic robot wife that doesn't shit test and just follows your orders like a bitch should. Never gets old, never loses her bkowjob skills... If such a thing ever happens in my lifetime, watching the giant hit in the sexual market would be satisfying AF!

But what if they made male robots too? Well... Too bad honey the male robots don't pay your bills shit doesn't work that way bitch!

[–]theONE843663[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

DW just entertaining thoughts brah. If I ever get rich enough to own a private island with my own runway? Of course I'll have more than a few unicorns with access to no other men or women.

It would be Korean girls with big breast implants and ass implants with the cute plastic surgery faces. Young innocent types. No clothing allowed for them or me in the house.

And I'll choose the best one to carry on my genes. Mentally and physically.

[–]Ayrabs4Trump 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not in America

All the women whores now

[–]Kolbykilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or you become a high SMV man and date a woman with lower SMV then you (only successful way to maintain a LTR). This is why self improvement is king. The higher your SMV the hotter women you can date down to.

[–]Kolbykilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its not as black and white as that. This basically equates to the fact women date up, and men have to date down. You have to raise your SMV to the point where its higher then the girl you're dating. Thats how you prevent them from branch swinging. If you fuck/date a girl with equal or higher SMV, eventually she will leave your ass for the next highest SMV man that enters her life.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Why do you think casual sexism was so rampant in the past? It was society's collective method for keeping women's self-esteem low so that they would remain faithful to their husbands.

Huh. Interesting observation. This literally explains Islam.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 8 points9 points  (1 child)

[–]dRePe_Thill 22 points23 points  (13 children)

Took that with a glass of water then followed it with cranberry juice. "If you want your woman to remain faithful, she must feel inferior to and dependent upon you."

I liked the quote above, and I break it into two components the "inferior" part and "dependent" part. I'll start with dependent, this is fairly straightforward as it aligns with provisioning, and I think of it as material/external things.

The "she must feel inferior" part I believe is the start of how we frame her mindset with the psychology trp has taught us. Nevertheless, this starts to enter the realm of the dark triad which can be savage (just like hypergamy).

My personal issue and maybe other RPers is that the moral hump proves to be a challenge. My thoughts are that it would be tough to find that balance of what it would take to make her feel inferior(sweet spot) with out over doing it and being an abusive asshole. Do you have experience in this area?

[–]TangoZulu 35 points36 points  (3 children)

Don't overthink the "she must feel inferior" thing. All it is really saying is that she must believe that your SMV is higher than hers. You don't have to pull some emotionally abusive dark triad shit for that. Just follow TRP and keep improving yourself in the process.

[–]yomo86 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Tend to digress. Men with higher SMV than mine or yours are abundant no matter how hard I work out or slay the money making dragon. So she really has to be dependent to some degree.

[–]circlhat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The fuck you get abuse from ?

All the women who really liked me always told me I was too good for them , and wondered why I was with them.

Don't think it was because of self improvement because there is always a beta with more, to be honest it caught me off guard to see women like this

[–]circlhat -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Fuck you get abuse from?

It seems you're still very blue and will create fantasies out of thin air when the situations isn't in a women's best interest.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 46 points47 points  (6 children)

First, let me address the notion of "abuse".

The definition of abuse has expanded in recent decades (mostly by SJWs) to include anything that doesn't prop up women's self-esteem (even undeservedly). You need reject this definition outright.

Abuse should be construed as any exchange where one person is the sole beneficiary, and the other is the sole loser.

In an effective and sustainable relationship, a woman is paying for your leadership with subservience and obedience. In order to do this, she must abandon all notion that she can be a "strong independent womahn who don need no mahn". This paradigm doesn't qualify as abuse because she is benefiting from your guidance, and paying a fair and necessary price for it.

That being said, the answer to your moral conundrum is simple: as long as she is attracted to you, she will never see you as an abusive asshole. Her hamster will re-interpret all of your behaviours in a favourable light.

He's not demanding. He's discerning.

He's not domineering. He's leading.

He's not condescending. He's pointing out my weaknesses and guiding me.

The real trick is convincing everyone else who sees you interact with her that you're not abusing her. Nowadays people are drinking SJW Kool-Aid by the gallon, so you must achieve this by making your superiority look like harmless fun. And you achieve that by being comical and teasing her playfully.

Check out my Guide to Teasing Bitches for more info on how to do this.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Lol, he still loves me, I just do such stupid things sometimes.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 19 points20 points  (1 child)

"I still love you, boo. Now go do the laundry before I fuck your best friend."

(fuck her best friend while she does the laundry)

[–]1kenpachitz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

... I have a great urge to put this on my bucket list.

[–]Neck_Beard_Fedora 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Where is this guide you speak of?

[–]kingxander123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just search for "Guide to Teasing Bitches" and make sure to only include results from TRP, It's how I found it.

[–]Kolbykilla -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You don't need to make the women "inferior" or "dependent" to you. You just need to realize the fact you have to have higher SMV then her. If you don't she'll eventually branch swing to the next highest SMV man that enters her life. This is why men date down, and women date up. By having a higher SMV these qualities that you're talking about come naturally to a lower SMV woman submitting to a higher SMV man.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

No need to play mind games if you ARE superior to her. If you have your shit together in life then she stays. It is not all about muscle, that provides tingles but a man who is successful in his mission is a keeper to a woman. No mind games required, focus on your mission, own your shit and the bitches just can't get enough

[–]antariusz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep. They can't get enough. You don't have to be better than a woman's man to get her to cheat, you just have to be different.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

but but but.. what about true love?

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Don't worry, /u/SirGaetanDugas. I wuv you.

[–]TsuGhoul 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The only way a woman will remain faithful to you is if she believes that her well-being depends upon your sticking around.

Is this even possible nowadays with no-fault divorce?

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Nigga we're talking about how to keep a bitch enthralled by you.

Marriage is the exact opposite of that.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 1 point2 points  (22 children)

Other than financial dependency, what could she possibly find from her guy

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 14 points15 points  (19 children)

A good father is pretty damn irreplaceable.

[–]BoalG 7 points8 points  (16 children)

You're half right. The problem is she knows you're going to be a good father even when she's on to the next ride. You don't just stop being a great dad because your wife/gf bails.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist -1 points0 points  (15 children)

Depends on what your terms are.

[–]BoalG 3 points4 points  (14 children)

Not at all. There are no terms when it comes to your own blood. I'm going to be the best father possible, raise them right, and take as much control/time as possible.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 0 points1 point  (13 children)

Unconditional offer of resources.

[–]BoalG 1 point2 points  (12 children)

For them, you're right. For her, you're wrong.

[–]melb22 1 point2 points  (1 child)

In my experience this does influence some women not others. When I went through my divorce, the less flighty kind of women said of my ex-wife "how could she do that to the children?" but there were plenty of other women who just breezily said "well, if she's not feeling it anymore she should divorce". I'm not entirely sure how you pick out which women will react which way but having grown up in an intact family/good relationship with her father/some religion based moral beliefs/intelligence and self-discipline seem to be part of it.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can't. That's when you've finally swallowed.

[–]TRP Legal ExpertColdIceZero 6 points7 points  (1 child)

In addition to financial resources, a good man could be a source of entertainment or exciting new stimuli.

Through him, she could have access to social scenes that she wouldn't otherwise have access to.

He could simply be a source of particularly good sex.

What a "good" man could provide is entirely dependent on what she values. He could be the very best in any particular category; but if she doesn't find value in that category or otherwise derive value in it in some way, then it won't matter to her and she'll find a subjectively superior alternative.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 2 points3 points  (5 children)

If you want your woman to remain faithful, she must feel inferior to and dependent upon you.

Absolutely 1000% wrong IMO. Briffault's law only discusses association, that's why it explains the stages for a failed marriage so well. As soon as there is a loss of attraction, she remains for other reasons, but strays. She may feel inferior, she may feel she needs you around to raise her children. But she also has tingles (tm) for someone else. And until she's sure that he'll stick around, she'll keep trying to setup that branch swing.

Now of course, that's going to cause other problems at home and eventually, she'll find a way to make him redundant and then he'll be sent packing.

But in no way does it address fidelity at all. That's a matter of individual morality and circumstance, even biology. So of course, the purple pill angle on this is "look for xyz, abc, agah etc" in a girl, which is all mostly a front, girl game. If a woman wants to, she gets rid of the piercings, makes some friends at church, stops drinking every weekend, dresses down and puts on the front. She can hit 90% of the purple pill manifesto in her sleep. Never mind the fact that her n-count is from the fiction isle.

A strong father figure can have an extremely strong influence, but it's really down to the purpose of hypergamy and the function of the species. There is no net benefit or purpose to long term mate pairing. Men do it because its the easiest way to satisfy their biological impulse, which is indiscriminately procreatory. The biology of women is time limited, and for good purpose.

If she thinks she can get away with it, or she has social language she can use to neutralize it, she'll be just fine cheating. She didn't "cheat," she got "close with someone who helped me move on to the next stage in my life." etc.

Briffault's law means only one thing. If you're there, it's because you have something going for you, what it is, is up to her.

[–]Flashover-Fighter points points [recovered]

If she feels inferior to you, it's less likely that she will act on tingles, unless the other guy in the picture is of clearly higher SMV and he shows interest in sticking around. So yeah if you're poor and ugly, no girl will ever be faithful, because you literally can't make her feel inferior to you. But if she thinks you are the highest SMV guy she is capable of "getting," it is significantly less likely that she looks elsewhere.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 1 point2 points  (3 children)

unless the other guy in the picture is of clearly higher SMV and he shows interest in sticking around. provides tingles and she thinks she can get away with it.

[–]Flashover-Fighter points points [recovered]

Tingles generally come from SMV. There are exceptions, of course. And "can get away with it" usually is related to "shows interest in sticking around" - she needs to be able to hang on that branch if her current one breaks. But you're right, she might risk stability for tingles. It's just a dice roll. I find that it is, in my experience, less of a chance when she thinks she isn't good enough for you, never mind looking for anyone better who she is less qualified to keep happy.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 0 points1 point  (1 child)

she might risk stability for tingles.

Might?

So yeah if you're poor and ugly, no girl will ever be faithful, because you literally can't make her feel inferior to you. But if she thinks you are the highest SMV guy she is capable of "getting," it is significantly less likely that she looks elsewhere.

This is purple pill thinking. Dopamine releases for a partner have a finite amount of releases. ALL female relationships have an effective expiration date.

[–]1FunAndFreedom 15 points16 points  (5 children)

Here's the problem, life is full of bullshit and heavy seas are inevitable. Even if you have money there are events in your life that will rock your boat hard. If you happen to have a woman along for the ride you're going to want to know she is going to be there for you when the bullshit comes, that's where pair bonding comes in. Pair bonding is the glue that keeps two people together when it would be more convenient for one partner to abandon the other. And for some reason women lose the ability to pair bond very quickly.

A woman who has been fucked and chucked multiple times is going to have a chance of divorcing you that's higher that 50%, a woman who is a virgin is going to have a 5% chance of divorcing you. That's the power of pair bonding. Now if you never want to marry or have a committed relationship this is no big deal, in fact it's preferable to fuck&chuck because you can always trade an aging woman for a younger one.

However for society, this is a horrible bargain. Without committed relationships (e.g. marriage) there is no incentive for men to work. Society needs to adjust to a lower standard of living. The reason we can get cheap food and find willing workers for our businesses is that most of the people producing in our countries are doing so for the benefit of their families. If you want to see what society without men look like go to the inner cities of America (or Northern France if you're a Frenchman)

[–]internet_badass_here 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Without committed relationships (e.g. marriage) there is no incentive for men to work.

I'm not convinced this is true. As a single guy I work just as hard as a married man. In fact I have some advantages over the married man in that I have more freedom to job hop to a higher income level, and relocate for better work. I don't like the fact that our government punishes unmarried men by taxing us at higher rates.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Realize you are only speaking for yourself here. He is talking probabilities and not possibilities.

[–]Neck_Beard_Fedora 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What exactly is pair bonding?

[–]RedPill115 0 points1 point  (0 children)

However for society, this is a horrible bargain.

It's actually perfectly logical - married women aren't as profit producing as unmarried women. Unmarried women have to pay for their own place, they have to get a job and pay taxes on that income, they have to buy more stuff. I have a japanese documentary (from within the last decade) where they openly talk about raising government revenue, profits, and having more workers by trying to convince women to stay away from the model where they have a kid and become a stay at home mom.

It's all about money. It's a bad bargain for society in the long run because you have a lack of kids for the next generation, but in the short and medium term it produces more profit.

I think this is why liberals push this idea that marriage is bad and a career is "amazing" so often, it's driven by rich liberals.

Without committed relationships (e.g. marriage) there is no incentive for men to work.

That's innacurate, men have to pay bills just like women do, there's always incentive to work. The incentive to really bust some balls working goes down, but for the people already at the top this just means less competition from below for them, so they like it.

I think this is why conservatives push the idea that sex education and birth control are bad so often, it's driven by rich conservatives who don't want competition coming from below.

[–]Dystaxia 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I'm going to play devil's advocate with this one.

Is there really a difference? Why is it alright to think something yet be condemned to express it?

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because I can't control all my thoughts. I know some of them are bullshit (eg. I deserve this pudding, no, no I really don't.) But to say it, it means it went from stupid thought from concrete thought.

[–]TheYoungOwl_ points points [recovered]

I love this, why can't we just be two selfish human beings who happen to share a beautiful relationship with one another for the time being?

[–]Platos_slow_brother 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Because at some point, kids/marriage enter the mix, and suddenly you have her big brother the State living in your marriage, and he is 350 pounds of 'roided up badass. And he is totally on her side. Totally. At her command, he wrecks you.

Women know this. And being what they are, they think that is a good thing to introduce into the mix.

[–]TheYoungOwl_ points points [recovered]

When did I ever talk about marriage, do you even read the sidebar? No true redpiller who isn't already married WANTS to get married.

[–]Platos_slow_brother 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I was speaking generally.

And this account is my third REddit account. The other two were both endorsed contributor. I been here since the member list was in the thousands. Low thousands.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 169 points170 points  (63 children)

Every so often, I ask my wife something uncomfortable that I know the answer to just to see what she says. I never get the unabridged truth, just the parts she wants me to know.

I do it to watch her make perfect eye contact. Speak promptly and without hesitation. With a perfectly normal and unwavering voice, with no unusual inflections. It's important to remind myself how good of a liar she is, and how quickly and easily she lies to me about completely trivial things. That way, I don't feel bad about never trusting her and always checking up.

I've found the same practices to be prevalent in female coworkers and among female friends. Women lie about stupid shit. Not even important shit. Just to look smarter or more informed. Just to avoid looking socially iffy. Or for no reason. And they do it so often and so easily that lies sound just like normal speech. If you don't know the answer before you ask the question, you would never have any clue you're being lied to.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 41 points42 points  (47 children)

Every so often, I ask my wife something uncomfortable that I know the answer to just to see what she says. I never get the unabridged truth, just the parts she wants me to know.

I'd really like to read an example for your question and her answer.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 165 points166 points  (45 children)

Here’s a really elaborate example where I had some fun with her:

This one time, we had weekend plans coming up in about two weeks. They’d been on the books for several months. I find out that one of my wife’s favorite musicians is doing a concert that same night, tickets went on sale about a month ago, and the very day they went on sale, my wife went online and bought three tickets, with the intention of asking a few of her friends to go with her. She figured if she only found one person, she could just sell the extra ticket. So she started going down her friend list, and before the end of the day, she had two people going with her, and they’d booked a hotel close to the venue that night. She never breathed a word about this to me.

So a month after she purchased tickets, I remind her about our upcoming plans in two weeks and tell her how excited I am about them. She looks me in the eye unwaveringly, smiles, and says me, too.

The next day, she sits me down and says that just today, she talked with [friend’s name], and there’s this really awesome concert that same weekend, a couple of her friends are going, and someone they invited had to cancel. So they have an extra ticket, invited her, and she really wants to go. She has a lot of friends, so she gets invited to stuff all the time – at least I think she does. She could be lying every time for all I know. So it’s not an unusual type of story for her to tell. But in this case (hell, maybe in every single case), she’d been planning to cancel our plans for weeks, but was waiting until closer to the date so she could spin a tale about something suddenly coming up.

Since I knew the situation – that’s the very reason I brought up our upcoming plans the day before – I tell her no, we already have plans. And now, apparently, I’m supposed to change my plans to babysit our kid that night while she goes to a concert and spends the night in a hotel with her girlfriends. I toss in, just for fun, that I know how expensive tickets to this show are and we shouldn’t waste the money (that she already spent). I just wanted to see what she’d do.

She, of course, goes ape shit and starts screaming about how she never gets to do anything fun with her friends, I always get what I want, I’m controlling, unfair, thoughtless, and she begins bringing up her usual laundry list of everything I’ve ever done wrong. This was a calculated move on her part. She needed to pick a fight and act really angry because she had already bought the tickets. She then used her feigned anger so she could end the conversation by telling me that she’s going to go anyway, regardless of what I say.

So there was another outing she had planned with a different group of friends a few weeks after that – that she also hadn’t mentioned to me yet or put on the family calendar. We didn’t have plans that day, but just for fun, I told her the next day that I had rescheduled our previous plans to that date. She said that was fine.

She then began texting every one of her friends she was supposed to meet that day to tell them that “Archwinger is being an ass” about the fact that she was going to meet them that night (even though I didn’t officially know she had plans - she hadn't told me). She also threw in that “he never lets me do anything” but that “it isn’t worth the fight” for her to go.

So get this. I modify our plans so that we’re going to the same place she was going to go with her friends and tell her, “Guess what. I was online and saw that they’re doing [event] at [place] on [date]. So I got us a reservation there after we do [first plans].” She said that was great. Didn’t bat an eye or mention that she was even aware of the event. She then texted all of her friends to tell them “OMG. Archwinger is taking me to [event] now” and not to say anything about to me about the previous plans they’d made with her.

So then, I mention that we haven’t had a game night in a few weeks, and we invite some friends over the next weekend. And I mention to her friends that we’re doing [event] next weekend. Her friends are equally good at the lying game, and without batting an eye, respond, “Really? So are we! We might see you guys there!”

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 57 points58 points  (6 children)

This is way juicier than I expected. Thanks for the amusement.

Every newbie reading this, take notes. Especially the following paragraph is important and a lesson in reading women:

She, of course, goes ape shit and starts screaming about how she never gets to do anything fun with her friends, I always get what I want, I’m controlling, unfair, thoughtless, and she begins bringing up her usual laundry list of everything I’ve ever done wrong. This was a calculated move on her part. She needed to pick a fight and act really angry because she had already bought the tickets. She then used her feigned anger so she could end the conversation by telling me that she’s going to go anyway, regardless of what I say.

A woman creating unecessary drama should always ring your bells. She fucked up in some way and she is in desperate need to feed her hamster some plausible deniability for the reasons why she did it.

She urgently needs to rewrite history in her mind and in order to be able to do so, she needs to provoke a negative reaction from you. "He is an asshole anyways!"

The more she seems to be pressing towards you loosing frame and yourself and maybe even getting physical, the more you should be alarmed and the more sober you should be observing the situation and start digging for the truth.

Some stinky shit maybe waiting for you. Search for trickle truth here.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

She then used her feigned anger so she could end the conversation by telling me that she’s going to go anyway, regardless of what I say.

While she's doing it she's actually convinced herself that her lies are the truth.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

She urgently needs to rewrite history in her mind and in order to be able to do so, she needs to provoke a negative reaction from you. "He is an asshole anyways!"

This hit me really hard. Because I had a woman calling me hot multiple times who later friendzoned me and said she was never attracted to me, and she later went on to project and say I was just rewriting the history of everything that happened. We went from having really long conversations talking everyday and her talking about mailing me her cooking to her never wanting to talk to me again. I'm still healing from the gaslighting now that I know for sure it happened after finding some evidence from the messages I didn't delete, after having a total nervous breakdown and just deleting everything and feeling like I had been talking to a ghost for months and none of it mattered, it was all fake in the sense that it all ended like nothing ever happened.

Be yourself and you're an unattractive "beta" loser, I'd rather do that because I find it easier to be myself than the burden of being someone I'm not, but I know if I want a good, drama-free life the chances are I have to do it single and alone.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You will never get the truth out of a woman.

[–]zkatkin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds like my last relationship lol...

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 41 points42 points  (9 children)

The bigger question is, why do you deal with this crap?

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 102 points103 points  (8 children)

Mostly the kid.

We've come a long way. Gone from monthly duty sex and constant fighting to maybe twice a week sex except on shark week and one outburst a month that's over within a day.

I don't think things will ever be 100% awesome. I married my wife pre-red pill. She's seen me scrawny, jobless, struggling, and spent years watching me fold laundry and constantly seek her approval and permission for shit. It doesn't really matter how much I improve or who I become. She's not going to forget the guy I was and magically trust in my badass leadership. She knows I'm just a normal guy who's acting awesome, not an actual awesome guy, because she's seen the transformation. In girl world, guys who are actually awesome don't have to work at it.

My wife's not that special. She has some very awesome traits, and some very shitty traits. The guy I am today would never have married her. Probably never even noticed her, actually. I'm not really trying to turn her into the love of my life, just keep the sex coming and keep her doing useful shit and not fucking anything up.

But my daughter is awesomely special. She's the one I have crazy oneitis for and couldn't bear to lose. Don't tell my wife, though, or she'll try to use that against me.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Im with you bro. Things are good now with wife, not GR8

I got my kids living with me and raising em my way.

If it ends, I'm fine. If it goes til empty nest, thats cool too.

After that? All bets are off but there could be a very fit 50 something guy crushing poon in Hawaii

[–]smirk_addict 19 points20 points  (0 children)

That was some of the realist and profound shit I've ever read here. You're the best version of yourself and you've made the best out what sounds like what was the worse relationship dynamic a man could ever have. I always enjoy your post, but no one can say you had it easy. So much respect for you.

[–]kaane 8 points9 points  (0 children)

WOW! This is the kind of advice from someone who lived and learned.

I guess what you are describing is "husband goggles". But it works the opposite of wife goggles. Once a woman sees you in your lowest, she will always remember that. The lesson I learned from your "hard earned experience" is that you have to deliver constantly above a certain level. Yes sometimes life hits us hard, and sometimes it is really hard to keep your spirit up, but than again, the idea of someone loving you unconditionally was a blue pill fairy tale, right ?

[–]tempjewman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hands down a top 5 thread for me. Multiple veterans discussing a very sad but true realization about relationships. Even after swallowing, there was this glimmer of hope I could have an awesome relationship without the drama and bs. Clearly, everything is gonna be a game. What I took from this was:

  1. Don't show bitches your lows, ever. You are a natural at everything.
  2. AWALT, don't trust these hoes. Never get caught up in their bs, expect the worst but always maintain composure or frame
  3. Never stop improving.

You guys are preparing a generation of men how to handle women, be proud of that.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

arch, you never don't deliver on shit

[–]smirk_addict 12 points13 points  (2 children)

What exactly did you see in a woman like this that made you want to marry her?

[–]matt_eskes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll tell you.. she was a hot piece of ass. :/

This is more or less my exact situation too.

[–]logicalthinker1 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Don't play games, women feed off of drama. Just put your foot down. They want an argument. Just say, "we made plans, tough shit." When she yells and screams, don't respond in kind. Just firmly say, "this isn't a negotiation, this fight is over," and walk away.

Let them wear themselves out and yell. Ignore them.

[–]SlumsToMills 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That still does not solve anything... "this isn't a negotiation, this fight is over," and walk away will still result in her acting out or skipping on previous plans made with him. I don't think this helps

[–]Cartz1209 9 points10 points  (6 children)

Damn... this was depressing!

I don't know if I could master the willpower to hold it in and not just rub it all in her face before kicking her to the curb!

For sure I wouldn't trust her... that night in the hotel with her friends... I can only wonder if they slept alone.

Similar story, a girl I dated told me about her friend, this girl that was in a relationship with the same guy since forever. Anyway, every year she would go on vacations with a couple of girlfriends with the sole purpose of riding new dick! All in LTR, all with the excuse of "girls' time", would leave their boyfriends behind and just burn as much rubber as they could. Every year!

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 25 points26 points  (5 children)

I don't sweat too much about my wife cheating. She's probably not, but maybe she is.

She's as smart as I am. If she really, really wants to cheat on me and really, really wants to get away with it, she's doing it, and I would never have a clue.

I can lay awake all night shitting my pants worrying about something that might not be happening, and if it is I'd never find out for sure anyway, or I can just sleep soundly and hit the gym in the morning, go to work, eat good food, and fuck my wife at night.

[–]TheYellowPill 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Haha dear god. I've always been on the "DO NOT MARRY" team, but can you make a decent argument for it? I'm of the belief that it's better to LTR + kid, and not get the government involved.

Your insight is much appreciated.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 17 points18 points  (2 children)

What insight? Don't get married. It's all risk, no reward.

Women are giving away sex for the cost of a drink now. And sometimes not even that. And if a few women aren't, there are plenty of other women right next to them who are.

You don't need marriage for sex. You don't need marriage for companionship. You don't need marriage for children. Marriage is more of a social convention nowadays, and as time goes on, it's become more accepted to not marry.

[–]ManOfGrapes 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Worthy of it's own post, imo.

It's amazing how women can flip the narrative in mere seconds. I get this kind of shit all the time in my ltr, where magically things she can't do like see her family, be with friends at certain times when we've already made plans.. are 100% my fault in her mind. Thanks for the example.

[–]FruitSalad1010 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Check her cycle if there is shitty behaviour educate your LTR invest in her because it's investing in you.

I recently had an open discussion pointing out my LTR is horrible around her period. I recorded it, proved it, explained why it happens. (She's biologically angry her alpha didn't get her pregrant this month).

Now she's aware of it and controls it, it works for both parties because I will straight up leave if I have to put up with too much shit. So I get less shit and she gets to keep her alpha around.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

What a story. Whenever I do this with Mrs. Cross, she fesses up or just smiles and laughs and comes completely clean (I think).

It's just a reminder that if I am not vigilant, i'll never know when I am being lied to.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

An ex and I were watching a TV show where a big part of the plot revolved around this character's lie (he was supposedly a scientist). Well, it was cast as the truth at first, but then revealed that a big part of show was based on a lie.

I saw the plot clues it was a lie and called out that he was lying and that in that situation I would have figured it out by now.

I suspected my ex was a pretty big liar due to inconsistencies and such.

My ex said "I don't know, some people are pretty convincing in their lies."

I turned to her and said "all I would need to do is ask him about something relatively complex in a casual one day and then take careful note of his answer. I would then wait sometime and ask him the same question in a slightly different way and see if what he says matches the original. this works for all types of lies."

My ex's response was to put her face in her hands and weep in front of my. It was very ominous.

[–]TheBloodEagleX 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My ex's response was to put her face in her hands and weep in front of my. It was very ominous.

At this point I wouldn't know what to do about that later. I suppose the TRP side is to know whatever it is, it's already something screwed up, so just walk away?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She must be really good in bed or make a mean sandwich.

[–]Banana_Club_Alcudia 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fuck, reading this scares me about marriage. I've said it before that despite the risks, I would like to get married someday, but the idea of being with somebody who blatantly disrespects you so much and being tethered to them due to having kids terrifies me.

[–]BBB2000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

how do you spy on her so easily ? that's an art unto itself without getting caught , one every man should learn

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a post that if you really understand, should make you sick to your stomach.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She then used her feigned anger so she could end the conversation by telling me that she’s going to go anyway, regardless of what I say.

What ended up happening? How'd you ultimately handle the situation?

[–]visvavasu2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly what S would have done

[–]RedPillHanSolo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you also read your wife's text? I'm asking not for shaming/judging, but because I'm simply curious. TRP is full of with people who try to push their own moral values onto others. I personally don't see nothing wrong with this. What's your take on it?

[–]TheBloodEagleX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Damn, that was some 4D chess going on there. Thanks for the write up.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I've done the same

"Want to meet for lunch tomorrow babe"

"Oh, I cant..something I cant get out of"

I knew ahead of time what it was. Another guy. Maybe orbiter, Maybe not.

"Oh yea? Whats that?"

"Im helping at my daughters school with talent show prep"

Bitch could pass a lie detector test and maybe enhanced interrogation. She believed every lying word she uttered

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Every so often, I ask my wife something uncomfortable that I know the answer to just to see what she says. I never get the unabridged truth, just the parts she wants me to know.

Call me crazy, but I'm stealing this. It's a good cold shower I might need from times to times.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

This. I've done this with my current LTR. I'm amazed at how rock-solid she is when telling a lie. Props to her.

Have you ever had this straight-faced behavior drive suspicion in you that she might be lying? Sometimes I feel too much/consistent eye contact is a flag.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 20 points21 points  (1 child)

That's usually the best tell. Women don't normally make strong eye contact. Especially when dealing with a man they respect and admire.

When a woman is staring at your eyes when she speaks, it's not confidence. It's one of two other things (or maybe both of them). It's either defiance or dishonesty. Most of the time, when she's staring into your eyes, she's either staring you down trying to get you to buckle, or she's searching your eyes for a reaction that will tell her how much you know or whether you know/suspect she's lying.

[–]FinallyRed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Does the defiance thing apply to strong eye contact from chicks you don't know?

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 4 points5 points  (1 child)

It's important to remind myself how good of a liar she is, and how quickly and easily she lies to me about completely trivial things.

Archwinger is Bill Clinton? ;)

[–]NoFapMat 3 points4 points  (5 children)

What really made the truth sink in for me was when I was having sex with a married woman (still do, see her ocassionally), and her husband called. We stopped having sex, she answered and they had a conversation.

She was perfectly calm on the phone, sounded completely normal, and was rubbing my dick so that I don't go flaccid, the entire time having chit chat with her husband.

Then they end the call, she tells him she loves him, hangs up, makes a joke about what a loser he is, and we go back to fucking.

If i was on the other end of the phone, there is no way I'd catch even a suspicion that she lied about anything, not to mention that she's in bed with another man, rubbing his dick while she talks to you.

[–]VTMSCHVSVCTRY points points [recovered]

We mean literally nothing to them.

[–]NoFapMat 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Not entirely true. You can mean a ton to them, as long as you make them feel amazing. They're emotional creatures.

[–]VTMSCHVSVCTRY points points [recovered]

Wrong. You mean as much to her as her dildo, and her dildo means about as much to her as the batteries that go inside it. Have a great day.

[–]NoFapMat 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You're a spacial kind of stupid...

[–]failberry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Loved this so profound. I felt like I was sitting with dad one Monday. afternoon sippiing his espresso.

[–]postreformedpua 107 points108 points  (15 children)

Yeah you can see why Women are so secretive about the things they say in private because it is the harshest stuff you can imagine.

My ex wife of seven years said to the guy she was trying to bone:

"I wish I met you first"

She literally rendered our whole time together null and void. Harsh.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 30 points31 points  (8 children)

Do you think she actually thought it?

Like, my ex said after we broke up that our sex life was meh. But during the sex life she said that I was good.

Can they take everything back? Like they didn't mean it?

Or are they just incapable of remembering the good they felt?

[–]postreformedpua 114 points115 points  (0 children)

I truly believe the only thing that is real to them is how they feel in the moment. It's preached a lot on here feels before reals.

[–]Senior ContributorMentORPHEUS 33 points34 points  (3 children)

Can they take everything back? Like they didn't mean it?

Or are they just incapable of remembering the good they felt?

u/RedPillSchool wrote a great article on this phenomenon: The light-switch effect.

[–]lnTheRearWithTheGear 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Good read. This is actually a phenomenon already documented as "splitting" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology).

Notice the section on BPD...

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Interesting, I never saw that before, but I'm not the least bit surprised.

Also, your link didn't work. This one does though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology)

[–]lnTheRearWithTheGear 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess the formatting didn't like the double parenthesis.

Anyways, yeah, I dated a psychologist for a while and she was... not red pill, but acutely aware of her own emotions and those of the people around her. She saw through bullshit - including my own - like nobody's business. We had a lot of great conversations about psychology, relationships, and so on, including topics like this.

If anybody gets a chance to take psychology classes, I would definitely recommend it.

[–]RedPill115 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Problem with snooping is that you never know what these things mean. Girls spend a ton of time playing social positioning and positioning themselves for power games.

Take the stereotypical friend zoned beta guy - he listens to what an "asshole" her boyfriend is, what a jerk he is, how the sex isn't even that great, etc. He makes a move, and she goes "I can't believe he thought he had a chance! I have a boyfriend!". Did she "really" think her boyfriend was an unworthy jerk?

In software there's a saying "there's 2 kinds of languages - the kind people complain about, and the kind people don't use". You never know what her complaining actually means. Girls love to tell themselves and their girlfriends that they have tons of options and could leave at any time, then they never do. Sometimes one girl is having a rough time so the other girl tells her "oh, the sex is my boyfriend is super mediocre" to try to make her feel better. Or because she thinks her friend has an interest in you and wants to be like "he's terrible in the sack" so she won't go after you. Other times the girl says the sex was great because she's embarrassed that it was poor and wants to look good to her friend.

It's like asking someone about their previous job in an interview, the correlation between their answer and what they actually think is very low. They just want to say the thing that gets them the job.

[–]logicalthinker1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They're capable, but it helps getting over someone when you convince yourself they were shitty anyway. We all do this. Whenever a girl leaves you, you realize she wasn't hot shit at all. You realize you ignored a lot of negatives because you were caught up in her positives.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 19 points20 points  (1 child)

She literally rendered our whole time together null and void. Harsh.

And the timer is already ticking on his turn with her too.

[–]thewrightstuff88 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is no such thing as relationship equity, a fact that can be a harsh lesson for men in marriages lasting decades even.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Keep in mind she would have done the same to anyone. She'll do it to that guy too.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 90 points91 points  (10 children)

Everytime we had a fight

Don't fight with women. There is no judge. There is no jury There is no deciding panel. She knows this which is why she runs to her friends; they become her stacked jury.

Seriously, don't fucking fight. State your position. Allow her to state hers. Alter yours if it makes sense. Otherwise you are the rock. If she throws a tantrum, walk away. If she cranks it up, show her the door. Never put as much as a pinky on her. Do no raise your voice. Don't bring up shit from the past. Feel free to whip out your camera and take video of the tantrum; they make for good youtube uploads and I get a kick out of them.

[–]Flatlamb 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Doesn't this approach fail to appease the female need for drama? Won't that sink the ship anyway?

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 14 points15 points  (0 children)

That's what the purpose of female friends. They swirl that shit among themselves. My cohabitating female (I've decided not to call her my wife any more--marriage has ceased to exist in modern society) loves to tell me all the bullshit that goes on in the hen groups. She doesn't expect me to give her advice or help out, in fact giving advice can get you in a bad place--part of the drama. She just wants to bounce it around in her head while sitting safely under my tree. Her mouth goes. My ears aren't any worse for the wear. She feels comfortable. All is well.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

DEVI, theres plenty of ways to manufacture it

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 11 points12 points  (6 children)

Yeah...I don't know if you are 100% right tho.

I like your "rock" vibe, but it seems very cold, robotic...Girls aren't the only one entitled to feelings, at least I think so! Fights happen between my peers when necessary, same with my women.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 41 points42 points  (2 children)

When you fight with men, there is something to win. It's a contest. When you fight with women, there is nothing to win. You are not going to convince them through argument to change their feelings. Only a change in environment (rock) or situation (leaving) will change their feelings.

You are entitled to all the feelings you want. Just don't be surprised when people treat you differently because of it.

[–]Elephaux 13 points14 points  (0 children)

You can't logically argue someone out of a position that they didn't logically argue themselves into.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

When you fight with men, it's with fists and it's over relatively quickly. When you debate with men, it's with facts and without all the shitty undertones. You cannot fight with women, not in any way. Not because you shouldnt or because it's wrong, but simply because you will not win, or even gain anything. If you fight a woman like you'd fight a man, you will get fucked by the long arm of the law. If you debate facts, well feelz before realz. They don't care about facts.

Women are children. Treat them as such. Don't hit them, but instead put them in a corner for time out. If they don't like the rules under your roof, then they can move out.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt[M] 12 points13 points  (2 children)

By definition you cannot reason with someone who's being unreasonable. The only way you'll win an argument with women is if you can change how they feel. This could be about the source of the fight, how she feels about herself, or how she feels about you. There are a variety of options from kicking her out, ramping up dread, or my favorite...

"How would you feel if..."

That is my go-to for hijacking their emotional logic to do my bidding. It's saved me immeasurable frustration over the years as I stumbled onto this strategy after countless fights with a BPD bi-polar ex.

[–]Ou-tis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can you elaborate this? I m interested

[–]Olga_Schmutzer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Me too. This hijack seems interesting. Please tell us more.

[–]atomsk413 83 points84 points  (22 children)

"Trust, but verify"

Had an ex myself who couldn't decide her way out of a paperback unless she had her friends/sisters to encourage her. Strange what that group-think does to people.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 15 points16 points  (18 children)

Why do you think it is that way? Personnality or gender?

[–]dRePe_Thill 50 points51 points  (11 children)

Definitely have seen this in women more, I associate it with attention seeking and validation, depending on the case. There also could be a lack of confidence, maybe she doesn't know if she's making the right choice.

I am no nostradamus, but the quote where you describe that she resorts to her friend to discuss breaking up with you is troubling. I see this playing out one day, she'll meet a guy then there will be an argument, she'll run back to her FB friends. She'll exaggerate the argument, paint you as the bad, they'll give her the greenlight and use it as a justifiable means to pursue other options.

With your redpill knowledge and this new information, I'm curious, why would you not plate this girl? To me this would come across as too many red flag and I wouldn't want to invest more.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 13 points14 points  (0 children)

She'll exaggerate the argument, paint you as the bad, they'll give her the greenlight and use it as a justifiable means to pursue other options.

This is why you should never act on a woman's testimony. It's either bullshit for victim points or a shit test.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 10 points11 points  (7 children)

If she dumps me, so be it. I'll be ready for the next chapter of my life.

Maybe that's because I see potential in her, maybe just pure lazyness, maybe the fact that I just want someone to watch Game of Thrones with and no spinning plates or anything, maybe a mix of all these reasons, but I'm not changing anything to how I see her.

I mean, I knew before that she could behave like that, I just had the proof handed to me by some God's joke.

As well, as long as the ride is going, I'm going to enjoy it. Everything is a bonus for the next chapter of my life, may it come in 5, 55 or 555 months.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (5 children)

I just want someone to watch Game of Thrones with

You do realize that there are guys who watch Game of Thrones. This isn't a good reason.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Well I'm not gay so not the same!

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well yeah, but I live with roommates and we watch certain TV shows like It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I watch sports with some buddies of mine.

[–]Mostlyright91 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I gave you an upvote cause I laughed, but if you watched with a guy you wouldn't have to pause the show every minute to explain what's going on.

[–]BrackOBoyO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You might find some relief from seperating your activities down more conservative gender lines.

To be simplistic and crude, hang out with the guys, fuck the girls.

[–]DiggerClam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

After reading some of your posts in this thread, maybe you are?

[–]atomsk413 1 point2 points  (0 children)

netizen539 nailed it with the "objective reality" part, just the hamster at work.

I'd say you're erring more on the side of laziness. Now that the curtain is pulled back, every minute you spend with her will just give your own hamster more traction to spin. Too long, and you'll rationalize all the way back to led to those texts in the first place.

In the words of the Lord Humongous: "Just walk away..."

[–]dissentforall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Testosterone definitely plays a factor. All the studies done show testosterone improving honesty and limiting self doubt.

[–]TheRedStoic 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Women survive on social influence. I presume this is mostly nature because of the need of support through childbirth, and partially nurture due to the society they're raised in and how badly it enforces women are wonderful complex. This means every decision is a social decision. How anyone who even hears or guesses it happened matters because they could lose influence or support.

Just for an example a plate of mine went shopping for new years gear, "new toys for the bedroom", it wasn't until after I found out that was a girls thing. She and 3 friends went out and helped each other choose things for each other's guys. This is normal apparently. It's all group mentality.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but IME it never breaks the rule or discredits it. It just gets in the way if you're not a strong leader, as their friends will tell her what you want instead of her focusing on what you actually want. I think the most amusing case of it was a girl I had asking her girlfriends what to cook for my birthday. "As. If. They. Could. Know." They're all horrible cooks except mine, and yet she still needed their input. Probably tied to humble bragging too I guess, just to constantly remind/advertise that she's got someone high value, at least in her mind.

It's that simple. Must be a horrible way to survive but hey, the human race is still here and bitches still trippin

[–]TangoZulu 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is a great reply, but part of it is also that making the tough decision puts the crosshairs directly on them if they are wrong. Group think not only protects their social standing but also provides plausible deniability and way to dodge consequences down the road. It's not her fault if she can say that everyone agreed that she was making the right decision.

[–]epubliusrex 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Gender. It's what they do. Although the truly smart ones leave high school behind, most do not. Are you forgetting the pyramid? Socs at the top, clueless in the middle and losers at the bottom? Losers all engage in group think. Learning to control the group think message to your advantage is key to success in life.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt[M] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

First, women need attention and validation. Who better to get it from than their friends and orbiters?

Second, women are creatures of conformity. They actually value conformity pretty highly as demonstrated in academic studies of the subject. Personally I think this is a large contributing factor to why women frequently devolve into groupthink and make up a disproportional amount of the left side of the political spectrum.

Furthermore, women have always bunched together in the middle of the bell curve in all aspects of humanity, whereas guys make up the lion's share of the outliers both for good and for bad. This conformity mentality is likely ingrained into them from good old evolution, possibly as a survival instinct/strategy.

[–]thewrightstuff88 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's more gender because a vast majority of women do it. Women value being part of the "herd" more so than a mate, unless if the herd values the mate (high smv). When things go wrong, she seeks the herd's council because she wants to be in their good graces because, just like thousands of years ago, a woman without a herd or group couldn't survive because there she wouldn't have access to resources. Sure, things have changed nowadays but the underlying context remains the same.

[–]RedPill115 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why do you think it is that way? Personnality or gender?

Women invest a lot of time into passive-aggressively controlling other women. Mothers towards their daughters are the worst, sisters try to control each other, female friends, etc.

It's probably something that's happened with the girl since childhood. Her mother probably started it, a sister may have kept it going, then her friends found she had the buttons to push so they kept it going.

All those things feminism blames on "men" are largely ways women are treated by other women. Women will gaslight other women for doing anything they didn't approve of first, and eventually she finds that acting without group permission first always goes bad for her, so she stops doing it.

[–]tatoritot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You mean like... The red pill? Isn't that all you people do?!?

[–]klgdmfr 79 points80 points  (28 children)

I've snooped.

I've snooped because I just LOVE me some verification to my suspicions.

I've not been disappointed... once.

Damnit, if we could just read all of our ex's texts/chat logs/emails... what we would all find... one can only imagine.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Words and stories written in such ways you could swear they are not about you.

[–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (12 children)

I am torn on snooping. IF you find nothing...you are an insecure little bitch. If you find something youre an insecure little bitch dating a whore.

I have moved on from snooping and if I feel the urge to snoop I just next the girl ghost style.

[–]Buchloe 33 points34 points  (3 children)

I don't see how you have to be insecure. It's just objective data The most useful thing there is. The more in line you are with reality, the better, and that shit is pure unaltered truth. Keeps you from living in a fantasy

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

I understand what you're saying but I have a different philosophy. If I feel the need to check that means the relationship is over already for me.

[–]DisagreeableMale 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Disagree. If you feel the need to check, you may be paranoid, however, that doesn't mean you're unfounded or the relationship is over. If you find nothing, maybe re-calibrate what your suspicions are. If you find something, you're on point and don't change. People are too comfortable relying on what they think others don't know about them. It's time to put those people in check.

[–]demolpolis 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Ehhhh.

If you trust your SO 100%, you are really doing it wrong.

That isn't a red pill thing... that is just a life thing when dealing with people.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Appearance of impropriety.

Women do not have to actually have cheat, but do things that are suspect. Once that suspicion is seeded it's all downhill from there. THAT is how important fidelity is, which is maintained by a steadfast avoidance of the appearance of impropriety.

[–]VTMSCHVSVCTRY points points [recovered]

Could you elaborate more, as I'm very interested in this idea. Are you saying that you shouldn't begin an affair with the idea that there is fidelity to begin with?

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

AVOID SKETCHY BEHAVIOR AT ALL COSTS IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP.

Simplest explanation is don't do stuff that might come across as sketchy or you wouldn't want your spouse/gf/bf to find out about.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Yeah, I get you.

I was not actively looking if that makes any difference, it was more of a lucky accident...

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

right. "Hey dont press this red button"

Clearly Im gonna press the red button.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you are an insecure little bitch

Nah fuck off. If you have reason to suspect she's cheating and the means to look into it, do it. The "lol don't be insecure xD" thing exists so girls can cuck beta bucks with alpha dick on the side - don't try to find out if she's cheating on you! A Real Man™ would never try to find out such a thing!

Or don't do it, fuck it. Keep living with a woman who's potentially just some shitty whore and going day to day wondering if she really is fucking around, and continue living with the awful tortuous angst of not knowing for sure. At least you're a Totally Not Insecure Real Man™, or something.

[–]RedPillHanSolo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can spin it either way. You have a gut feeling, that's all. You just being careful and vet her.

The point is, you can paint it as anything you want subjectively, i.e. it's hamstering in a way. Do or do not do. Don't restrict yourself just because of how you think it makes you feel/look.

Just my 2c.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children)

the Keylogger is a must read

[–]hamhamt 0 points1 point  (5 children)

how do you keylog someones computer?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Ridiculously simple if you know passwords. Google it, there is free software

[–]hamhamt 0 points1 point  (2 children)

i know passwords. looked into it a while ago but the software i found on a google search seemed a bit sketchy. i wouldn't want anything to be detectable on their end. could you pm me some suggestions?

[–]Hoodwink 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A really easy way is to just download IFTTT app and look up pre-written scripts that copy messages and/or phone logs to a google Docs document (you have to download that app too, I believe).

This doesn't work if she has her app list very tight and efficient. Also, turn off the messages for that app in the app options menu.

[–]Buchloe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fuck man, gotta look after yourself imo. Know everything you can, don't make assumptions. Take those red pills and align with reality

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I've always wondered that. I have a strong suspicion that my ex cheated on me in some way, but I never knew for sure. I would love to read her texts to chats to see if I was correct.

Maybe one day years from now I'll just ask her flat out.

[–]lnTheRearWithTheGear 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I snooped on my ex-wife. I didn't even think there was another guy in the picture, I was legit wondering what she was telling her friends about us working on things.

To say I was blind-sided is putting it lightly.

[–]BrackOBoyO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The good old 'seeing if we can make it work' usually means:

Stay and satisfy my wants a while longer so I can swing to the next guy seemlessly please

[–]DisagreeableMale 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hopefully years from now you won't give a shit.

[–]zebrabh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I actually have gone through my girl's text messages before. And her facebook messages. I've been with her a year and she's seemingly completely in love with me - and I her.

You know what I found? Absolutely nothing. Nothing. I actually felt sort of bad. Even went back to a year ago and saw that she turned away two guys saying that she had a boyfriend.

It blew my fucking mind. Maybe she's a keeper. But I never want to get married. Sigh...

[–]Endorsed ContributorMeat-on-the-table 23 points24 points  (3 children)

Your detachment from this whole experience is admirable. I imagine your beta instincts would have been to confront her about, whereupon she would've turned the situation around on you for snooping. The fact that this simply reaffirms your ability to walk away and the truth about hypergamy means you've made significant progress.

For those who haven't read it, this is the ultimate example of detachment from a woman's bullshit.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Thanks a lot :)

Buddhism to some extent helps a bit. I am not angry at what I can't control, I just enjoy the present.

The glass is already broken :)

[–]RedEyesBlueShades 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What a great link... thanks for re-posting it, somehow missed it!

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was a bit let down by that post. He is pragmatic, but he was still not detached. If he was, why not demote her to plate?

[–]themanbat 65 points66 points  (12 children)

To each his own, but I don't sweat dropping an L bomb on girls anymore. When young, guys often have idealistic views of love, and feel its incredibly important not to say, "I love you," unless its some kind of deep admission of an eternal truth. Relax guys. You probably love ice cream, certain movies, books, and games. If you say you love Lord of the Rings, that doesn't mean you don't love Star Wars. When a girl says she loves me, if I like her, and I want to see her again I say it back. It's that simple. Love is just a stronger than average like. Saying it doesn't somehow give women power over you, anymore than saying it about your favorite ice cream. And it avoids a shit load of drama, and makes her feel comfortable in investing in you emotionally. If you want her to invest, don't say it first, but say it back.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Love is just a stronger than average like.

If you want her to invest, don't say it first, but say it back.

I expected to teach all of you something, and still I'm the one learning new stuff. I like your refreshing point of view on the L word, I like it a lot! Thanks!

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

That's not what the 16 commandments of poon says. - nevermind didn't get to your last sentence.

[–]caP1taL1sm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you link these commandments?

[–]TheStumblingWolf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. Even when I was most BP I resented the word. It felt so fake and hollow . like a line in a theater performance. I didn't believe love was anything special. I believed it was a function of evolution to make us procreate. This meant that it wasn't really any different from attraction. This is one of the few things that hasn't changed for me after finding TRP.

I haven't decided on what to do if someone says it to me again, but I might just say it back to avoid drama as I see the potential for this to be big. I would simply be acknowledging the fact that I'm attracted to her and she'd shut up about it.

[–]AwakenedSovereign -1 points0 points  (5 children)

This is interesting.

What would you say to this:

Girl likes boy. Girl is very emotionally charged, saying and doing romantic/spiritual things in tandem with really great sex.

Girl says she wants a relationship. Girl has not yet said she loves the boy.

Now, boy likes girl. Alot. But it doesn't really make sense to commit prior to the "I Love You" part. Which she is supposed to say first. Thoughts?

[–]themanbat 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Interesting. Now basically, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you think you love this girl, and you'd like to say it. And you would definitely like to hear her say it.

Fundamentally that's why people usually say I love you. To get that confirmation, "I love you too," back. Infatuation is a great feeling, and can be enjoyed for a long time in its own right, but eventually people want some reassurance that they aren't over invested and the feeling is mutual.

But I still wouldn't say it first. Here's why. Saying I love you first is more than a gamble. It's a move that surrenders power. It's symbolically submitting yourself to your partner's judgement. I love you, am I too worthy of love?

As a man a good policy is always to not day it first. Women generally, biologically, can't help but want a man more powerful than they are. They want to submit, to be taken, to be judged and found worthy. When you say it first it, you are the one submitting to her. And most women find a man who submits to them less attractive.

Women say they they want knights in shining armour who worships the ground they walk on, and kisses the nether most hems of their garments. They say this because it's a cute romantic fairy tale, and usually involves the knights fighting over them because they are seen as such valuable princesses. Back in reality it just doesn't arouse and keep their sexual and emotional interest. They exploit devotion, but they crave strength and domination. This is why white knights spend most of their lives in the friend zone, and even when they do land the position of provider, they are constantly in danger of having their mistress lured away by a badass black knight.

The big, saying I love you first gamble, pays off in a big way emotionally, when the object of your devotion says it back. But as a man the gamble isn't worth the risk of losing your position of strength and leadership. Let her be the one to submit, as she is naturally inclined to do, let her be the one to be on the edge of her seat about what your response will be, and then give her the big emotional payoff when you grab her, pull her close and say you love her too. Honestly the pay off will be bigger for her than for you, as women are more emotional, so I wouldn't deny her the joy of the experience, and certainly wouldn't miss the opportunity to continue to establish the pattern of her feeling joy after submitting to your authority.

Plus she hasn't pressed the issue by saying it first, so why should you? I know it seems logical to you that you should say I love you before you two are officially going steady, but this isn't a set hierarchy in a relationship. Many girls will be thinking, hey I'm crazy about this guy, but how can I know if I really love him of we haven't been in a relationship yet. You may be jumping the gun here. So don't do it. If you want to be in a relationship, don't ask her to be your girlfriend. Tell her you've decided to make her your girlfriend. There's an important difference.

Also what sort of spiritual/emotional things? Women get very emotional during sex, and in often sex shuts off a big part of their logically spiraling brain. So keep at it until you fuck that first I love you right out of her. And then don't immediately spurt it out back at her, say, something sly like, "Oh really?" Or, "Of course you do." Then after dragging it out for a few moments something like, "Well in that case you're in big trouble. Now you're all mine. Because I love you too."

Saying I love you first is essentially asking a question. Saying it second is making a statement. Make her ask for your approval, and avoid the habit of seeking hers.

[–]AwakenedSovereign 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thanks for your reply. It is a first time experience for me so far. HB8 asking for a relationship while knowing I have an open/poly thing with another girl and flirtations & one off besides her.

But she is very sweet. The emotional/spiritual shit is mostly her observations of how we have been near-missing eachother for almost a year. How we are both recently coming from places if profound self growth (TRP for me, not that she knows that) and the timing of our meeting seems to benefit us both by having "been ready". It's an emotional narrative she has created and I have supported.

I don't buy into the hippy shit as much as she does but I can literally make her quiver by talking about it in a certain way. I don't mind having that power over her. Let her believe it's destiny if she wants to and thaf helps us be good to eachother.

Really my time with her is effortless and amazing, with the only hiccups coming out of my own bluepill insecurities from old programming. But she accepted those gracefully and with not a single shit test to show for it. If anything, being a wee bit vulnerable and seeing how well she responded has vested me more in the idea of her being LTR material. Alot of chicks could have easily flaked and walked for the same mistakes, and been justified in doing so. All she wants right now is more.

Mainly, I think I'm ready to try love again, and she is someone who I see real potential in. Deep monogamous love. Way I see it, I'll work hard to build my SMV with her. And if she fucks me over, I'll learn a good lesson, and come out the other end tougher and meaner and hungrier.

There is an opportunity cost either way. I lose overt options with other women, or I lose options on a love that's "all mine".

But I plan to let her be the one to say it first and continue seeking my love. She has asked twice now, or rather said, "if you want me I'm yours" on two separate occasions. Told her I need to process but I do want it. Still seeing the other chick during this timeframe. The HB6, to her credit, knows I am considering an exclusive relationship with the HB8 and is still by my side.

We shall see. I'm at a place now where I want to take the plunge and know I can survive it no matter what happens. Very Zen about the outcome.

What's the worst that could happen, really? I'm not going to get her pregnant. We aren't going to get married. Maybe she cheats. Whatever. Maybe she loves me like a God for all my days. Or at least six months. Sounds worth it to me.

[–]themanbat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some red pillers think that you should never be in an exclusive relationship. Some think you should avoid women all together. I think perhaps the most important part of taking the red pill is learning how women actually work, how to manage them, and to be aware of all the risks involved so you can make informed decisions.

If it were me, when she says, "If you want me I'm yours," I'd say, "You're already mine." Or, "I know your mine."

Do what you think will make you happiest. That doesn't mean you have to be a jerk or a selfish prick. Just be a good leader and you'll be fine.

[–]i_forget_my_userids 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thoughts? How about your thoughts... Why are you thinking of committing? Stop thinking with your dick.

[–]Lucius-Cincinnatus points points [recovered]

I personally feel like if you had any type of abundance mentality you would break up with her.

All we have in this world is our honor....

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 14 points15 points  (9 children)

My honor is not attached to any other person than me. She doesn't treat me bad, or disrespect me. In a sense, she is just being a woman. As I'm being a man when I check out girls or masturbate from times to times.

Can't blame her for that really.

[–]HelloNeo points points [recovered]

Then why commit? Don't be an idiot. At this point, the best option would be to plate her at best.

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (4 children)

What he does with the info is on him. He kept his mouth shut, and didn't give her a headsup to hide things better.

Thats the smart play.

[–]HelloNeo points points [recovered]

True but it's idiotic to stay committed with this chick.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

he doesn't sound committed to me.

[–]HelloNeo points points [recovered]

He is. Read the post again.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I read it. She sounds demoted to me, definitely not climbing the ladder

[–]elpanocha 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Seriously. If you can't walk away then you're not quite there. It's hard. And you may justify it with saying you enjoy the sex and comfort but maybe you need the monk time to let the red pill really sink in. Plus not getting your balls fondled will be the fire under your ass you need brother

[–]SlumsToMills 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Is it bad to stay and enjoy her company while realizing how things are now and to improve himself while enjoying the benefits of having her?

[–]elpanocha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's just gonna make it harder. The ideal rationale is that you can replace her. Sounds like deep down you're rationalizing a slight fear of not having that or having better. Which you might not. But that's gonna drive you to make moves to get you there

[–]HS-Thompson 13 points14 points  (4 children)

I mean I know this is a truly sad truth but if you went through her messages and didn't find any evidence of cheating or almost cheating or I can't believe I let that guy kiss me or flirty exchanges with a backup plan guy she's probably in the top 10% of women.

[–]GrabHerByThePEPE 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Because it's OP's fault for being a fat beta with a tiny penis. If he was her ex bf she would be the best plate ever.

[–]askmrcia 14 points15 points  (4 children)

You're always going to be compared to her exes and you're never going to be enough to keep her satisfied.

The most interesting and important thing about all of this was she only stated your flaws like you're supposed to be some perfect Greek god.

What did she bring to the table? I guess she thinks she the most perfect woman in the world because her social media followers tell her so.

And yes, women's friends can be the worse for any relationship and they always get bad advice from their friends. One time I was with my ex and her friend. Her friend talked how she went through a slut phase in her twenties where she would sleep with guys and not call them back. Literally bragging about it.

The bitch was in her 30s fat as hell now, but the fact that she was telling my ex that while I was there lead me to Believe that they shared worse conversations. No surprise we broke up three weeks later. Good luck man

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

You're always going to be compared to her exes and you're never going to be enough to keep her satisfied.

True that. There will always be someone more alpha, taller than me, smarter etc.

I don't care, I just can't care anymore. The truth is I'm fighting the biggest of fight, the fight within :)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And they always have a backup in the kiddie. Thats pretty normal. It's a gift really, now you don't have to get feelings in the way, you can have a pragmatic relationship, just like she does.

[–]BudapestPUA points points [recovered]

So are you spinning others? Or are you just simply at peace with the fact dating anybody is like this?

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women be women. I'm at peace with that.

[–]yummyluckycharms 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Irony: guy says that he's not blue pill and that he's good at reading people.

But then doesnt realize that his gf isnt sexually attractive to him, is dead emotionally about him, still talks to her ex, and still wont dump the gf.

Like WTF people....are cucks multiplying now?

[–]chambertlo 69 points70 points  (14 children)

Dude, a Masters degree does not indicate that a person is intelligent in any way. All it does is prove that a person did the work required, and met the sufficient criteria to obtain that degree. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

[–]goldnhorde 28 points29 points  (6 children)

Masters or even a doctorate if not a receipt of intelligence.

first, the education bar has been lowered ... and lowered again. I find myself talking to far too many educated idiots these days. and the younger, the more stupid, and I do not mean naïve, I mean stupid ... like a sack of rocks could beat them at tic tac toe.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

The worst part is (and I got out of college in 2014, before it became completely pussified) that you are forced to take many classes that have nothing to do with your major.

I majored in finance and accounting and there were classes that were honestly, a waste of time. Also, test taking which is how you are graded, does not truly indicate how much you know the material. It just shows how much you can memorize.

[–]_cumulus_ 7 points8 points  (1 child)

It just shows how much you can memorize.

Temporarily memorize at that. Cumulative finals are a rarity in 20xx, because too many kids failed. The thought being, if they fail too much then they drop out, and if they drop out we're not getting paid.

2014 it was pretty thoroughly pussified. That doesn't mean that you partook, because it seems that you didn't. Finance and accounting have other problems, namely the amount of shit you have to do by hand to "learn it" but in reality is 100% software.

Congrats on picking a worthwhile major though, some aren't grounded in reality enough at 16-17 to make a good choice.

[–]curiously_crazy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

TR makes it sound like 2014 was eons ago.

You on the other hand are correct but take out the 'pretty' from "2014 it was pretty thoroughly pussified" US uni's have been thoroughly pussified since at least 2005.

I speak as one who obtained a degree in the mid 90's and then a second in 2004. The difference was like night and day.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

in the evolution of closing the gender achievement gap, educators found that women tend to excel over men at memorization, while men destroy women at applications of principles. as a result, more college programs are switching to rote memorization than application of critical thinking skills. take a look at STEM programs... software is almost no memorization and is overrun by men. comparatively, chem is almost entirely memorization and is overrun by women. side effect is you end up with all these kids with degrees who have memorized a bunch of shit but have no idea how to apply it.

[–]TheSlicemanCometh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm friends with a very intelligent college professor. Not in the top ten smartest friends I have, but way smarter than average.

He told me straight up that he know tons of doctorates that are completely morons.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I know...I just liked that echo chamber :)

[–]Lvm235 -1 points0 points  (4 children)

How can you say that lol. It definitely requires intelligence to get a masters degree. It doesn't prove they are intelligent in any way? Lol

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

if you go to a top 7 Bschool yeah or Data analytics...MA in english, pysch, poli sci, comm, all that shit. Joke. Easier than undergrad.

[–]askmrcia 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I completely agree with you. I met a chic on tinder who had her master's degree in library science. Don't even bother asking me what that is, but she was trying to get a job being a museum curator or something.

Dumb as a box of rocks and yes she's 26 working at panera bread.

[–]electricqueer points points [recovered]

Example as to why she is dumb?

[–]FuriousPorkchop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She has a master's degree and is working at Starbucks.

Just like my Uber driver who picked me up from work today. He has 2 masters degrees. One in education and another in music. It took him 25 minutes to drive 2 miles to my apartment because he kept turning down the wrong roads. He listened to the GPS which was slow to update and he wouldn't listen to me. At one point he came to a complete stop at a road the Y'd into 2 different directions.

[–]Platos_slow_brother 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It has nothing to do with intelligence.

Actually, it very much designates you as being no less than the top quintile, likely the top 10%.

That said, being in the top 10% doesn't mean a ton. It is like being a top 10% football player. Good enough to make high school varsity starting squad. Nothing more.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Some people are praising you but all I see is weakness.

You won't leave her? Ok, but this is a LTR and most LTRs have Red Flags. She's shown you plenty, and she's shown that she can lie to your face about it. These signs of disrespect, that she doesn't think you're the fucking king, and this isn't something that you should just be ok with. If you want a LTR, find a better girl. Have whatever fun you want with this one but from now on she is not your girlfriend and never will be.

Your problem is that it took her words to motivate you to go to the gym, better yourself, but I see none of that coming from within. Nothing to motivate yourself as a man, like some sort of attachment to the words of a woman.

Just how much attachment do you have to her? Your male hamster is spinning. Wake up cause you're still sleeping.

[–]TyrannyVengeance 23 points24 points  (4 children)

Jesus Christ plate this dumb cunt already. This post is literally the definition of lost frame, lack of abundance mentality, and lack of options.

Options are frame. Plate plate plate!

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

See, why call a woman who is being a woman a cunt?

I'm not butthurt or anything, she is following her basic instinct, a.k.a complaning and contemplating hypergamy. I'm rising up, lifting, reading and working hard. That's all that matters, she is not my life goal or end or anything.

[–]betahibitor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I like your post and I would probably do the same and stay in the relationship/commitment for a couple months to enjoy it.

But I think you should also consider the fact that you don't really see the relationship ever amounting to anything that you would be satisfied with in the end. Theres also the risk that the relationship will end with her cheating since there are a lot of red flags with her already.

All the time you spend with her you are sacrificing for all the time you could be doing something else to improve yourself or game other women and gain experience.

[–]perplexedm 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Some enjoys being cucks while some don't, that is the only difference. Enjoy your ride when you can, later can eff off anyways when she prefers another man.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Good post, thelse situations can have a tendency not to feel real until it happens to you personally so I think your mindset is gonna improve substantially.

Funny how these things motivate us

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My main motivation to post this here. It's not just for the others!

[–]1GroundhogLiberator 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I had trouble saying « I love you », thanks to you guys I guess. I dont know what love is anymore, so I had to wait a year to say it, not to lie to her or just « say it ». Anyway. It was kind of a sensible topic because she said it first and I pulled a Han Solo (hardcore unvolontary dread, the best). The day I told her back she seemed happy and everything, well apparently « it changed nothing » and « she didn’t feel the butterflies», according to a convo she had. Well, she is a good liar as well, I’ll give her that.

I couldn't agree more. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if I never said "I love you" to a girl again.

When you say you pulled a Han Solo, did you mean that you just said: "I know."?

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It was even worse I'd say, I said somehting like "Thanks"

[–]user_none 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Before I met JacquesNicoleSonne, I never thought I would find someone as good as my ex regarding sex and cuddles. Now that I’ve found him, I know I can find another.

Oneitis crusher right there. Once I realized whichever girl really wasn't the best in whatever category, and another could easily supplant her, the pedestal fell. The flip side to that is, it's more difficult to bond with a good woman.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And if it's the case that there are no good women left, so be it :)

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Well, now you know the truth.

Don't marry her. The messaging the ex she's "just talking to" is bullshit. There's a lot, A LOT, more than talking going on there. Just be aware of that.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am brother, I fully am. I know what I can expect of her, the job is to not forget that truth.

[–]mugsaucecity 30 points31 points  (2 children)

I also add that I’m generally pretty, pretty good at reading people

I don't trust anyone that says this haha

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

You might be right after all!

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Maybe he is just pretty, pretty good at reading people...

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

You dated a chick that rode the CC, has a huge network of friends/ex's that she communicates with more than you, and has a career she cares about more than you and you are surprised at the outcome? If you try to LTR a woman that doesn't need you then don't be surprised when they...don't need you in the end.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Wow, loads of assumptions here :)

Between her and me, I'm the most advanced career-wise.

OF course she talks to them more than me, I'm not her girlfriend. We do stuff, she talks with other people.

The same goes when I want to talk about things that matter (politics, science, religion, news..). I don't call her for that, I have friends :)

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I didn't assume anything. You said it yourself. It doesn't matter if you have a better career. The fact that she has one at all will seriously diminish your worth to her. At the end of the day, she wants that ex's dick and not yours. Seems like you need to cut this one off before it gets worse. Good luck.

[–]Hoodwink 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Between her and me, I'm the most advanced career-wise.

It's not a contest. It's about the ability to walk away.

That is, barring a religious education (not a McDonald's Evangelical Christianity) and true want to raise a stable family and a focus on transforming herself into an adult.

[–]Returnofthemack3 8 points9 points  (0 children)

people always tell you that snooping is wrong and that you're being overly paranoid, yet almost every guy I know that has snooped, soon found that his worst suspicions were correct. It's hilarious to me. If something seems suspicious and you have that feeling in your gut, trust it. The chances of it being true are incredibly high. How can you 'break trust', when there wasn't real trust to begin with? Ponder on that

In today's world, with all the social media and dating apps, you should almost assume something guilty is going on. At best she's only talking to a few back up options, at worst she's literally planning the next fuck session with Chad. Don't delude yourself

[–]1redpillthrowaway34 6 points7 points  (0 children)

To your points:

  1. She can fuck 100 dicks as easily as you can eat a bag of potato chips. Don't worry, she's miserable deep down while she's doing it.

  2. Her ex-boyfriend showed that he didn't give a fuck about her by cheating on her. Unfortunately she liked it.

[–]Mckallidon 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Omg. Why the fuck would you waste time with this bitch? I would just try to get as far as possible sexually then dump.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" :)

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Enjoy the ride, yes. You could be having a much more self-respecting ride, though. You're in a manual Civic with a faulty camshaft. That MPG isn't going to go back up unless you invest to fix it, which is expensive. Wasting gas is expensive too and bad for the environment. It could be worse, it's still a car, it gets the job done, but why not sell it for a decent motorcycle that you enjoy and maintain that one? Still carries everything you need. Do you really have so much baggage that you need a car to store it in?

Side note; Motorcycles are the shit and car metaphors are great.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

My motorcycle never woke up one morning and decided to let another dude ride it. I love my motorcycle way more than I will love any woman.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That hurts to hear. Yeah, I know the feel. Sucker for those 250's... wait, does that make me a pedo?

[–]RedditAdminsSuck_88 41 points42 points  (9 children)

I won’t dump her, as I really enjoy her company and the sex (yeah it goes both sides)

So you continue to pedestalize her.

Have some damn self respect dude. Absolutely pathetic

[–]peterson2004 31 points32 points  (5 children)

I have to agree. Women talking shit behind your back is disrespectful. Women will defend a man they idolize, and she is far from that.

A proper ghosting would put you back on top.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

All women do this, alll. No exceptions.

Ignore what she says, watch what she does. That emotion during the message no longer exists, but will exist again.

you seem to think if you vet, you'll get someone who doesn't do this stuff... it's not called sometimes, it's called AWALT

[–]peterson2004 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All women complain, agreed. AWALT is a framework for understand behavior patterns, not a sicker placed on clones.

Talking to her ex puts her into ghost territory IMO. Not all women do this.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Well..No they won't.

That's the point of this post. They will always find something to complain about. Enjoy the ride while it lasts.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I don't pedestalize her. I know what I expect of her, and I know she won't deliver more. I like the blowjob and the cuddles (yeah fuck it, I'll say it) and that's about it. The rest is just "be-alpha" masturbation, in the end it doesn't change what I have: blowjob and cuddles.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I like this response. No DEER, you see it for it's transactional nature. you get what you want, and pay what you're willing to pay. words are cheap, you watch for actions. and you don't let your ego have you blow up and end up in a worse position

[–]301niko -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'd black Knight that hoe. Have some fun and just disappear from her life.

[–]chadee points points [recovered]

Ditch the bitch. AWALT is not an excuse to stay with shitty women.

Tell her what you saw and leave her.

Just because your feelings aren't hurt, that doesn't mean you shouldn't bother showing yourself a little respect.

She's going to leave you eventually anyway. You might as well do her and your fellow man a favor by punishing her for having a bad soul.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

AWALT is not an excuse to stay with shitty women.

this. MGTOW and completely noncommittal TRP are growing because men are realizing most women are net negative expected value in our lives. expected value is probability of an outcome times magnitude of that outcome. she has a very high probability of divorce, and when she does, she'll get half your shit now and half your future shit, and if you have kids, even more than that (strongly negative magnitude). committing to a girl like this, even if 85%+ of women are like this, is a serious mistake.

[–]NoFapMat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Doesnt really sound like a shitty woman to me. just a normal chick. If he enjoys her company, why should he leave her?

[–]1trpposter 18 points19 points  (13 children)

I won’t dump her, as I really enjoy her company and the sex

You're still plugged in. You'd do well to dump her. Let her chase the man she desires, you're not him. Or you could end up with an STD, your choice.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Let her chase the man she desires, you're not him.

I'd say that much more you are still plugged in if you believe that a woman will ever be satisfied with the man she is with. The man she desires is always the man better than you and even if you were the richest, smartest, most handsome, most powerful, funniest, guy with the biggest dick, she would be looking for somebody "who isn't that perfect".

Hypergamy 101.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Bravo. While I agree OP is still a little attached, he's definitely more red pill than the guy with the blue pill in his throat rather than realizing there is no "the one" is trying to say "oh, she's looking for someone better, you're just not good enough" which is really a corollary to "she's no good."

Until you can say you'd have no problem plating a LTR, I'd venture to say you're not quiet there yet.

[–]1trpposter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd say that much more you are still plugged in if you believe that a woman will ever be satisfied with the man she is with.

There are degrees to dissatisfaction; it's not a binary black and white. A girl dating a buff quarterback will be much more satisfied than a woman who settled. Right now, OP's girl is at the bottom of the satisfaction meter. She WILL cheat on him, and if he continues fucking her, he could contract an STD. But hey, not my life.

The man she desires is always the man better than you and even if you were the richest, smartest, most handsome, most powerful, funniest, guy with the biggest dick, she would be looking for somebody "who isn't that perfect".

Did you read the OP? She has no respect for him whatsoever.

[–]RPDrogan 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I disagree with this. OP is not "wasting" his life. He is happy in the situation he is in. Not everybody needs or desires to be a true alpha. If they did then being alpha would become irrelevant because it is the status quo.

Op is content with his situation but he just wanted to see our views on it. He doesn't listen to your comments, that's fine. If you are striving for the alpha mindset as many of us are, then his response/reaction to your advice is not relevant. All that is relevant is that you offered it to him.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

OP gives a good example of Women's nature. I disagree as well. OP isn't planning a life/marriage/house/kids with her. He's enjoying his turn. That's inherently redpill.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

alpha gets laid period. OP is currently alpha, listening to the above guy means dry dick, and effectively, a beta male

[–]1trpposter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is all that worth an STD? His woman's even less trustworthy than average, and that's saying something.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

I'm not the man she desires, but I'm the one she is fucking right now, and she is doing a pretty good job at it, so don't mind if I stay! :)

[–]1trpposter 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I'm not the man she desires, but I'm the one she is fucking right now, and she is doing a pretty good job at it, so don't mind if I stay! :)

Meh, it's your life. If you want to throw it away, more power to you! You can be an example to others.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's a part of my life :)

Work, self-improvement and having fun, that's my life!

[–]NoFapMat 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You have no idea what youre talking about

[–]1trpposter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure got me there. How can I possibly come back from that?

[–]scissormytimbers69 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Good post. Quick question, doesn't it notify the person if you log into their fb from a new location?

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

It's not new, as she logged in at this spot already. But if she is notified, well so be it :)

[–]scissormytimbers69 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Fuck em, keep improving bro. is it true that they get notified with a new location though?

[–]betahibitor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dy default only if its another city. But I think the user can enable a notification for every new log-in too.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children)

Lol, CAD used to say, youll never know.

And now that you know, you can start seeing how all the rp advice makes sense.

Every guy should do this once... Shake any bp outta his mind

[–]1Sir_Distic 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Lol, CAD used to say, you'll never know.

It wasn't until I discovered the Red Pill that my jaw dropped because my ex used to say, multiple times, "You'll never know if a woman is cheating on you. Women can't get caught unless they want to get caught." (Of course my BP mind was like "yeah yeah")

I totally agree with you (and CAD)

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

And there's really only one play. You can't be paranoid, try to control it, that's just useless.

Have the value to replace her ass. you'll get cucked, but you don't know what you don't know. Once you know, how to act defines you as a man.

[–]1Sir_Distic 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Funny thing is, I wasn't paranoid. I didn't believe she'd cheat on me. "Why would she cheat on me? If she didn't want to be with me she'd break up." We even discussed it several times and both agreed "I'd rather break up than cheat on someone"

I laugh at that now. Jesus, when you're Blue Pill you're so oblivious to 2x4-to-the-head clues.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The lucky ones get to be the other dick, so they get the lesson without the pain.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are a lot of stories to the contrary though of women getting caught.

Your ex's statement reeks of female superiority. Why isn't the same true of men? Especially given that the smartest people have always been men.

[–]El_Serpiente_Roja 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Word...it miggt hurt but nothing kills the pedstal faster

[–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 3 points4 points  (0 children)

She didn’t find me fit, or even pretty, compared to her ex boyfriends. Ok this one hurt to read, but I used to be obese, and has some stretchmarks on my belly. She said that she feels bad for saying it (oh, sweetie !) but she found it kinda disgusting when we fucked the first time. Oh, and I apaprently have a small dick.

Inb4 shitredditsays links to this post to prove that redpillers are all small dicked misogynists.

This made me feel sorry for you. No matter how much you improve yourself, get fit, get jacked, make tons of money, be famous, whatever--you'll never be hung like a horse. This is WHY female chastity is so important. Once a woman has tried a few different dicks she will gain a preference. If she only ever had one she would be satisfied with that one (barring extreme problems).

Riding the carousel destroys a woman's worth. Once she's "had her fun" she is incapable of a stable monogamous relationship which is the bedrock of civilization. I'm reminded of the Christian origin myth: Eve ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge, sometimes referred as the apple. Then she gave it to Adam to eat. Once they had knowledge they hid from God because for the first time they knew they were naked and were ashamed. Knowledge is dangerous. Knowledge changes you and corrupts the innocent. When Eve gains carnal knowledge of cock size Adam just can't measure up for insert-reason-here.

[–]TheCello 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Gtfo the bitch immediately ffs

No 7 was ridicolous to read

[–]FoxMcWeezer 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I also add that I’m generally pretty, pretty good at reading people.

Don't say shit like this. Snowflakes say this, thinking they're special for being able to do something most people think they do well.

[–]BasketCase559 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I thought it was frowned upon/beta behavior to snoop through our girl's messages.

I've had plenty of opportunity to do so, but I've refrained from it because of what I've learned from TRP. Now it seems like it's accepted. Nothing makes sense!

[–]Geleemann 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Women are lying hoes, treat them as such

[–]AttackOnKvothe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh, and I apaprently have a small dick.

We all do, mate. We all do...

Also dump her if you want happiness. I can't understand how you can be in a relationship with a person who views you in a 40% negative light.

[–]epubliusrex 11 points12 points  (11 children)

How I would handle this, being me and being naturally dark.

First Id put up a tinder and okcupid profile. Then I'd find some hotties younger or at least far more successful than her--both is preferable.

Then I'd take her out to one of my favorite hangs and let the waitrons flirt with me. Then she'd get upset and start a fight when we got home. Then I'd pull up her FB account. Then I'd let her see the new hotties I had dates set up with.

Now that she's totally crushed and destroyed by reality, I'd smile and just go to bed. Women are their own worst enemies. Never forget that.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] -3 points-2 points  (10 children)

Well now that's just being mean, isn't it?

[–]epubliusrex 3 points4 points  (8 children)

Nope. It's called putting her in her place. This is what you guys don't get. Women are a dime a dozen. Like buses and trains, there's another one along every ten minutes. It's best to have the schedule with you at all times and that way, they'll know where they stand.

Women fuck each other over all the time. So do beta males. When you get wise to this, you'll be much further along in life.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 1 point2 points  (7 children)

This is what you guys don't get.

What you don't get is you caring is validation. You can't hate something not important.

[–]epubliusrex 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Haha. Funny. Where's the hate? All I did was do what women do all the time. I just turn it around on them. It's really fun asking them to pick out the one that I should date first.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Emotional investment.

Think of it this way. What do you do when someone at the mall runs up to you and says "911 was an inside job, jet fuel can't melt steel beams!"?

You ignore them. To even enter into the debate is to lose.

[–]epubliusrex 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yeah, but it's fun watching the look on heir face. And, down the road, if I want a quickie, it'll be there--even if she knows I have someone else floAting around. I like to dominate and it is what they want. It's how you make slaves of them.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You're not dominating this way, it's DLV. Just tell her that you're interested in other women and wish her luck. That's DHV, the same means to an end.

You're indulging in crab bucket mentality masturbatory material, don't.

[–]epubliusrex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And you know this how? I have plates that will baby sit my son for me while I go to clubs. I don't look for sex like a needy beta male. I seek to own them.

[–]DruidFlyAwayToday 0 points1 point  (1 child)

because we are not women. . .why would you want the OP to mimick female behavior?

[–]epubliusrex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's called reverse psychology. Using their tactics is always best. It's a primal thing that men once understood. Before they had it drilled into their heads women were their equals. Dumping her in a formative way will cause her to be more careful in the future. So, you are helping to make the world a better place.

[–]DruidFlyAwayToday 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I dont think being mean or not is the issue with this. Its kind of just a waste of time. Why go through all that work? for what? Shes not fit to be the mother of OPs children, so why go through all of that instead of the OP spending time on working on himself?

[–]vezokpiraka 2 points3 points  (1 child)

While I agree with some of your points I have some different insights to offer.

Point number 1: When I have an argument with a friend or anyone at all I like to ask the opinion of others. I find other points of view and maybe realise something I did wrong. I process everything myself, but I like asking around to see other perspectives.

Point 6: Most of my convos are also filled with non-sense. It keeps the mind off of your troubling thoughts. I would say that someone who talks about a lot of different subjects is smarter than someone who doesn't, but it's not an absolute.

The other points are true whoever and they are hard to accept at first.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's true, I might have gone too hard on her, but you make valid points, thanks.

[–]Viklove 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I think I almost had a stroke trying to read this. Why can't half of TRP write 500+ words in any capacity?

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Sorry, I would have wrote in my mother tongue, not entirely sure you would have understood it then.

[–]Viklove 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm talking about all the « bizarre punctuation », and random bold clauses.

[–]PATRIOTZER0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't think I'd be able to stay with her knowing all that. It's one thing to be disrespectful to you to your face, you can get past that, but to air all the dirty laundry out to everyone? I don't know man. She might not be the prize, you might be the prize, but no one goes to the carnival looking to be disrespected and hurt. I'd dump in a minute.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

"Welcome to the real world," when Morpheus greets Neo. The is why the Rep Pill is such an apt metaphor. A harsh introduction to the real world where everything you believed turned out to be fake. Your precious snowflake's window into her mind must have been like a kick in the balls.

« Before I met JacquesNicoleSonne, I never thought I would find someone as good as my ex regarding sex and cuddles. Now that I’ve found him, I know I can find another »

That's because she is 24 and pre-wall. I have met and seen so many women that think that way. Men are easily replaceable and the party will never end or I have time to settle down later. If I can find you, then I can find someone else.

I think that the wall is a woman's version of the Red Pill. That harsh reality that slaps them upside the head that the party IS over and finding a decent high value man isn't as easy as it was in her 20's. I am now in that age group where I now meet and see the wall or post wall women and the panic in their eyes when they talk about relationships.

[–]supremechuck 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Most Every woman settles. Most every girl is raised to believe they're a princess.

[–]aodh1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This post helps for those who want cuddles not just sex <3 hahaha great post

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We are the prize. Never forget that.

[–]1egoisenemy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

better yourself and trade up

[–]1empatheticapathetic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This thread absolutely crushed me and I'm grateful for it.

[–]Fox-SAF 2 points3 points  (0 children)

First things first OP, it's HER turn not YOURS.

By your response "hey at least she is great in bed", taking in consideration you've been with her in a LTR for that much time and you went and checked her messages history when you had the option not to (why? because deep down it affects you, hell you EVEN made a post about it) most of us (at least most) can tell by a mile that you are in a comfort zone and you don't want to push beyond that.

It's ok OP, that's how you learn. but now, is time to take action and stop hamstering about it:

  • Dump her, yes leave, but the sex is great! you say, go out and plate more chicks. (Unless she is your main plate and she provides you the most mind blowing sex you've ever had, which I doubt, well your choice)

  • Now that she is gone, that time you've wasted (or are still wasting because you don't want to push your boundaries ) use it to improve yourself. Read how to plate, read good books on improving yourself,etc (lifting is implied) and go plate. Better sex in the long run AND less drama, more happiness, if you learn how to manage your plates.

And last but not least, DISREGARD anything you hear or read about you, only ACTIONS matter. I've been told I'm short, I'm tall, I have a small dick, I have a big dick and I you know what? I couldn't care less. You know why? In xxx amount of years me and everyone I know or will ever know will be gone and none of this will matter .

Outcome independence is the answer.

[–]mocket_ran 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Regarding women conversations...I've never once overheard one that impressed me. As you mentioned its generally a pointless stream of pointless banter. Most of the time that i'm around men conversing it's either a probing type of conversation..everyone trying to learn from each other...or get to the bottom of something...or it's a conversation that is just pure comedy and entertainment...like your at a comedy battle roast or something. Both have purpose...I honestly don't know what the point of most girl conversations is.

[–]El_Serpiente_Roja 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Damn this one hurt to read.

[–]VanityKings 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't break up with her over that but I definitely would find it considerably more difficult to get emotionally invested in someone who complains about me to her friends over every minor thing.
If you're lonely enough to need an LTRS with whom you want to get emotionally invested in you'd better make sure she communicates better with you

[–]meh613 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Congrats, u/JacquesNicoleSonne on your discovery of proof that women are self-centred.

[–]TheCello 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Gtfo the bitch immediately ffs

No 7 was ridicolous to read

[–]suske127 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey man.. Sounds like she is "settling" for you and that you're not up to her standards. Your two options are to improve, or accept that she'll move on in time (like you said) ~ But it seems like the disrespects you a shit ton and I would never put up with a girl like that. Idc how hot she is or how well she cooks, that chick has almost 0 respect for you. I'd honestly stop talking to her unless it's for a hookup because that's all she's good for, to you, once she treats you like that

If you ghost her now, she'll be begging for you back in 2-3 years when you're in top shape, in a promising career, and when you have a greater respect for yourself. Physical fitness, Financial power/freedom, and most importantly confidence, are the most attractive traits a man can have. I would start working as hard as you can to improve those three things to your fullest potential. Then you'll find better women fall into your lap.

But don't do it for women, do it for you. Because you're an awesome fucking guy who deserves what life has to offer him, and who deserves to conquer his own life, and the men and women around him.

Hope you're all good, and glad you're starting to see things for how they are. "swallowing the pill" sucks but once you've accepted it, you're liberated and free to become the best damn version of yourself!

[–]chances_are_ur_a_fag 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I looked at my last exes convos in a kind of similar accident. same stupid conversations, has to always confer with friends about everything (same goes for her friends). I was pretty shocked to realize that she was that way because that's not how she was with me. definitely changed my outlook about her. also, was a damn good liar.

[–]Vishee15 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's really brave on you to keep your cool. This same shit happened to me and I lot it big time, if fucked me up for a long ass time, I'm glad I came across this post... It's just a lot to take after something like that but it does make you stronger.

[–]Liefskaap 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This was a great read and can relate to pretty much most of it. Bookmarking it, pretty sure I will want to read it again the short future.

[–]slay_it_forward 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just lol at your micro penis tbh

[–]Edgar_Allan_Rich 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I just popped in here to see if this place was as crazy as it used to be and it has clearly gotten worse. This entire thread screams beta male insecurity. I hope you all realize this. Point for point:

  1. If you understood the difference in how male and female humans use and value communication you wouldn't be worried about this and would be above it.

  2. She made herself vulnerable to you by saying "I love you", you waited a long time to reciprocate because you had to work up the courage, and by then she was over it. You're just pissed because you aren't as important as you think you are.

  3. What the fuck do you care unless you're insecure as fuck. You are the one fucking her now.

  4. Again, see point 3.

  5. Exactly. She's a strong independent woman who can do whatever the fuck she wants. The fact that you aren't keeping her fulfilled is the problem. They're always going to talk to their exes and they're always going to talk to other men.

  6. See point 1. And what are you, 15 years old?

  7. So you are supposed to be the only man in existence from here on out? Do I have that right? What's the logic there, exactly? You are too insecure to contemplate having to continually keep her happy in order to keep from losing her to other men? The competition is too much for you? Beta fuck.

No wonder she tells everyone about your small dick. You know, if you were really such a baller don't you think you would have picked up on some of this prior to snooping in her private accounts? I know I would have, but then again I never have issues like this because I'm not a mixed up angry niceguy. Enjoy getting dumped. It's coming.

[–]real-boethius 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Enjoy getting dumped. It's coming.

The only true thing in this post.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly. She's a strong independent woman who can do whatever the fuck she wants. The fact that you aren't keeping her fulfilled is the problem.

Holy shit, what are you doing in this sub?

[–]MEpicLevelCheater[M] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I just popped in here to see if this place was as crazy as it used to be and it has clearly gotten worse.

Then stay gone. Allow me to assist.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 0 points1 point  (1 child)

We booting purple pillers now? I'd love to start referring them to the ban counsel.

[–]MEpicLevelCheater 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Concern trolling has always been against the rules.

This is not the place to discuss whether or not RP theory works. It does, whether or not you agree with it.

If you see anyone concern trolling, report them.

[–]lagerea 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Every girl I've considered dating gets the snoop treatment, easiest way is just a keylogger. It makes it incredibly easy to weed out the undesirable girls. I'll save a lot of you the surprise, most of them have slept with a Shit ton more guys than you think, and most have cheated and disclosed it to their closest friends. Yeah invasion of privacy but insurance for your investment, you decide.

[–]DerHansWestmar points points [recovered]

Proof read your posts you illiterate foreigner

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree also no one cares about your stupid fucking complaints

[–]WeightsNCheatDates 1 point2 points  (4 children)

What is the point of this post? To verify things we've always known and to show us that you are still extremely blue pill?

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

When you say "we", are you talking of the entire population of this sub? Because I'm not sure we are all alphas chad serial plates spinners.

Some people want to believe, some people just need more posts like these in order to.

[–]qitjch 4 points5 points  (0 children)

IMO, no amount of anecdotal evidence is too much.

[–]perplexedm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How to enjoy being a cuck. That is the only moral of this story.

[–]epubliusrex 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It allows someone like me to post an alternative solution.

;)

[–]JohnGalt316 0 points1 point  (0 children)

welcome to "women don't know shit 101"

she found it kinda disgusting when we fucked the first time. Oh, and I apaprently have a small dick.

Before I met JacquesNicoleSonne, I never thought I would find someone as good as my ex regarding sex and cuddles.

[–]of-maus-and-men 0 points1 point  (0 children)

1-3 and 6 aren't that bad to be honest. They're normal and part of what happens in reality on a consistent basis. 7 though is the nail in the coffin.

[–]netherlanddwarf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great read. Thanks for the post.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be honest, based upon your title, I expected a lot worse. I fully expected her to be in flirty/lusty/sexual conversations with multiple men if not at least meeting them behind your back.

[–]reptiliansentinel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly I feel like I could be that ex you're talking about. I KNOW THIS WOMAN. Oh wait, AWALT.

[–]TheBloodEagleX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm glad you did read all that because this is where the real "truths" come out. It's confirmation to everything folks talk about on here.

[–]highenergysanders 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"accidentally" winds up in his gfs facebook account

decides to read through tons and tons of messages but it was just "curiousity." Definitely not insecure or snooping or anything.

turns out she's talking with an ex

has fantasies of fucking ex's

bashes and shit talks him constantly including but not limited to making fun of his small penis.

lies to him about how much she cares admit him

decides to stay with her because she's giving him sex.

rationalized his snooping and passive allowance of this shit behavior as himself actually being secure and strong for being able to ignore it and pretend it never happened

Wtf did I just read? Congrats op. She doesn't respect you at all. She dreams about fucking better looking guys and isn't attracted to you. She literally found you to be disgusting when you guys had sex. She still talks to her ex. But hey at least she thinks your smart and coherently dressed.

I'll be interested to see the follow up post where you find out she cheated on you 20 times and then you explain to us how alpha and secure you are for staying with her anyway and pretending like it never happened.

[–]casemodsalt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm with a cool ass girl now..maybe the nicest one yet. But there are red flags.

•said her phone was a long story. Then later explained how her ex still pays the bill...hmmm...

•told me how her Co worker starred flirting with her after he saw me drop her off at work one day.

•has been pretty much OK with the facade of me having other girls on the side...jokes about it, etc.

Meh...just enjoy it and never get your heart set on anything .

[–]BigSloppySunshine 0 points1 point  (4 children)

That's similar to what happened to me. I used to be a super beta. I logged onto the computer one day and my girlfriend of 3 years whom I'd lived with for 2 and a half was logged into Facebook. This was back before Facebook was popular. MySpace was dying, but still king. I had just made a Facebook.

I clicked messages because I thought I had a new one and didn't realize it wasn't my account. The guy I saw messaging was the one I hated most in the world. This guy is a pedophile/rapist/alcoholic that his family disowned for molesting his young sister.

She knew all this from high school when he'd anally raped a friend of ours and she had to go to the hospital for bleeding and trauma which had brought all his transgressions to the open.

Apparently my (then) gf had been talking to him there, complaining about me and buying into his bullshit. Agreeing with him when he called me shit and made fun of my behind my back.

My surprise was all negative and led to some pathetic garbage that almost got my shot/in jail.

It could be worse, you're certainly handling it better than I did but your news isn't as bad. At least she didn't cheat on you with one of the most garbage human beings on the planet.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

You brought up something that also use to bother me. A lot of discussion on a girl's past and disgust when finding out her n count is the usual here. But for me, it wasn't just about how many guys, but also why type of guys too. Finding out her number was one form of disgust, but when I also find out that the last guy she "dated" was a drugged out jail bird Meth dealer