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Red Pill TheoryWhat did you ever do to deserve being called a man? (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

My friend was talking to me recently about how it all feels completely surreal and somewhat out of place that he is now a father. I did the usual thing you would do for your BP friends and suggested he was just a new dad and this was likely normal. There was something in his eyes though at the back that were restless and possibly bordering scared. Was he scared that he was a dad and 'happily married'? No, he is content with the girl for all that matters and loves his Son. What else then was driving these little moments in our conversation where for all his "happiness" his face was clouded in self doubt and questioning...

I don't know man it's just... I did university and got a job and now... This is it? Right? It just happened very quickly...

At age 30 scrolling through facebook I see father after father sat on their sofas playing Call of Duty or some other videogame with their 4 year old Son with all the typical comment trains running underneath...

Where was their rite of passage? What trial or ordeal did they have to endure to begin to raise a family? Nothing. Nothing at all.

What are they going to tell their grandchildren when they are old?

I used to be good at cod and drinking beer.

Great story.

There is a oft quoted passage in Fight Club - you've all heard it.

“We’re the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a spiritual war… our Great Depression is our lives. We’ve all been raised on television to believe that one day we’d all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And we’re very, very pissed off.”

It's true, there is no purpose for men in these days except the ones we make for ourselves and between the television telling us what to think and chasing women we have no space or time to address this most important of issues - generationally we're not very pissed off about having no cause, we're wholly apathetic instead.

Since swallowing the pill you've started to lift weights, dress better and approach women, you're concentrating on your career and have learned how to say no. The truth is:

  • You should have always been in shape

  • You should always have been well dressed and care about your appearance

  • You should have always been able to speak to the blonde in the coffee shop

Our generation feel they should be rewarded for just for tidying their room or leaving the house, turning off the video games or going for a walk... Achievement unlocked - go back to sleep.

The discordance I saw inside my friend was "Eating the bread of shame", he was just a taller, fatter version of himself at 9 years old with all the supposed luxury and privilege of a settled life. He had no rites of passage, no trial by ordeal, no cause greater than himself and professionally sat at a place earning a pension that looks increasingly like it won't matter by the time he comes to claim it.

We were warriors by birth, years of brutal exertion, bravery and commitment was the price of feeling entitled to old age in front of the fire and getting fat. Now we are a generation of spiritually and physically fat and old men at age 20 wondering what this nagging feeling at the back of our collective heads is.

You haven't done anything. We haven't done anything. Short of military service or a committed effort to travelling what could you tell your grandchildren that they'd care for? What have you done to deserve being a family elder, someone to listen to, what have you seen or done that was in anyway remarkable?

I ask myself this as much as the community here and find myself lacking. I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life.

What will I tell my grandchildren? I lifted weights day to day and earned money, I partied and fucked girls? I was a wealthy ladies man? Is that it? By my own standards I don't deserve to raise children and settle down if that's my story to date.

What will you tell your grandchildren - what will you have done?


[–]kalstate 467 points468 points  (40 children)

These posts seem to be getting better lately. It's as if TRP is evolving. I love to see this, my brothers... These are the right questions we must be asking ourselves.

[–]Born2Ball 166 points167 points  (24 children)

Yes it really is evolving. It's directed more towards its original intention now more than ever, as the name would apply, of unplugging yourself from the bullshit that society is trying to feed you. It's a source of legit self improvement advice, empowerment, and being the man you deserve to be.

[–]kalstate 70 points71 points  (18 children)

Interesting. I was just looking over my past posts, and realized how cringe-worthy many of my comments were. I am definitely experiencing quantum leaps in my thinking (thanks to TRP, lifting, eating right, meditation, self-improvement, etc..), and it seems to be happening across the subreddit too. We're having fun, folks!

A side-note for people who thought this subreddit was turning to shit a few months ago..Perhaps it was from a wave of incoming freshmen, but we seem to be figuring it out pretty fast.. I recall one senior suggesting that some of the elders need to step up their game--it seems to be working. And as always--thanks to all of you..

[–]PowerfulHTX 21 points22 points  (3 children)

Interesting, I've noticed the same thing in my self-development process as well. From the blogs and books I've read, they all state that self-awareness and improvement is not a linear progression. The further down this path I go, the more I realize this to be true.

It seems every couple weeks or months I'm stumbling upon a new train of thought that opens a door to a whole new avenue of self-reflection and discovery. The problem I'm facing with this is that this process seems to be never-ending and that can sometimes make it exhausting.

[–]kalstate 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I am going through a major healing/repair process. While leaps are quantum, I find that if I'm exhausted, I need rest. It sounds ridiculously simple, but we need time to heal and build. Just be patient, and cut out things that are distracting (nagging people, extracurricular activities that no longer serve you, poisonous food, bad habits, etc..). I find removing those things and getting enough rest help a lot. Also, the time it takes to heal is essential to the process. Rome wasn't built in a day..

[–]RocketManV -2 points-1 points  (13 children)

I may be alone in this, but I picked up TRP fairly quickly. The first two weeks all I did was read, and now I can hold frame, place myself in an abundance mentality, and keep in mind I am the prize.

I can only hope this progression has happened just as fast for the rest of my brothers out there.

[–]Born2Ball 1 point2 points  (7 children)

I feel like this is what happens when you skip the anger phase that I hear so much about. Did that happen in your case?

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

It happens when members read the sidebar instead of skimming "hot".

[–]RocketManV 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Must've, I never really got angry. I sort of came right into this out of a TRP-independent monk mode, and I'm younger, so I didn't have too many preconceived notions I was shattering. Plus, I halfway knew I was doing something wrong with girls haha.

When you start to get it, everything just kind of falls into place.

[–]Born2Ball 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Wow this pretty much describes me. I half way knew what I was doing cause I was getting with a lot of girls, but not the ones I actually really liked. Of course the red pill solved that mystery for me. I was putting off the "I Don't give a fuck" vibe with the girls I didn't care about. Meanwhile, I was developing oneitis for the girls I really cared about, thereby falling into beta mode.

[–]mryddlin 2 points3 points  (2 children)

i went through the anger phase before finding TRP, it just provided the entire framework in one place to see and let me identify what I was doing right, what I was doing wrong and why those outputs happened.

I now understand why losing my shit (lose frame) is a negative thing to do, why stoicism is a good thing, why going all Disney Prince on a girl will dry her vagina up, etc etc.

I think the anger phase is the longest and hardest for people to get over.

[–]RocketManV 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Haha, right? I was the there with you! Being a prince, always saving the day and bending over backward. I mean, I knew I was doing something wrong I could just never pin it down.

I'm very lucky I made it through then.

[–]mryddlin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I went, by accident into monk mode, its one of the many reasons TRP made sense to me.

[–]1Snivellious 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One trick there is to be unhappy with your self instead of with your relationships. From what I've seen, people who arrive wanting self-improvement have very little anger phase (except maybe a bit of past-self-loathing) compared to people who arrive because they feel lonely or slighted by a woman.

[–]kalstate 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it also depends on how much damage was sustained beforehand. If you're young and fit, it may be an easier transition. I'm going through a major overhaul, physically, and otherwise. I'm making major progress, but it's going to take me another year to heal and build my body.

[–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I can only hope this progression has happened just as fast for the rest of my brothers out there

That's very kind of you to wish that, but IME it's unlikely, (and IMO you're a bit of a natural Rocketbro!) Not many of us are/were!

how did last night go matey?

[–]RocketManV 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Wait, are you talking about the club? Two nights ago, but I didn't end up with close. Great experience though, I can feel the up in game.

Last night, I flew back home. Picked up some street tacos for the flight!

[–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (1 child)

yeah, I'm in Oz so our days are ~12hours out!

Hey, at least you gave it a shot, did you have fun?

[–]RocketManV 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yea man. Between getting invited to the VIP area because of my dance moves, having a chick on either arm, seeing one of the most famous DJs, and dancing my ass off in the best nightclub in America. I had a blast. Not to mention, I felt like an AMOG the whole night.

10/10 would do again.

[–]1Snivellious 7 points8 points  (3 children)

It makes me wonder if the stages of development we talk about are taking hold. During the really rapid growth, it was tons of people in the anger phase ranting about women behaving badly. Now that some critical mass of users are past that point and on to self-improvement and understanding, we get posts like these.

[–]ShanksNes 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Absolutely. I'm much less angry now, and life seems more zen despite the fact that reality is still the same. Time passes and you "grow up".

[–]rpscrote -1 points0 points  (1 child)

You reflect much more on yourself than on the sub. Posts like this have been here for literally years (not to shit on OP. The ECs have been posting here a while now with similarly high quality content). You probably just didnt focus on them or they didnt ring true since you didnt yet have the experience to match it. I think you've gotten past the anger phase -- not the sub.

[–]1Snivellious 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a possibility, but I didn't mean to imply that posts like this are new. The flared contributors and a lot of other people have been writing great things for essentially the whole history of the sub.

What I meant was that there was a period of 3-5 months or so during TRP's recent fast growth where I felt like the average frontpage post was less in-depth and angrier than I'm seeing now. I also have the impression that the mods and a lot of long-time users agreed at least enough to be frustrated by a rise in shitposting.

My explanation above isn't the only one - aggressive moderation is another big possibility. It could also be selective memory/attention, but I have trouble fitting that to my experience.

If I thought TRP had always been angry until lately, your explanation would make total sense. But I think the frontpage average was good, then lower-effort and angry, and is now rebounding (with higher turnover from more users). I may well be deluding myself in that, but it would take a more complicated set of fallacies to explain my results.

edit: another possibility I neglected is that I might just be redditing differently. I'm less likely to come to TRP and scroll through, and more likely to see it on my frontpage since I cut down my other subscriptions. That may pre-select for the highest quality content and explain my recent impressions.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Red Pill is entering the fifth stage of swallowing the red pill.

[–]laere 45 points46 points  (2 children)

Man OP hit the fucking nail on the head.

I have been having this nagging feeling in the back of my head for the past year of finding this sub.

I dress better, better shape, lift, eat better, but still I have that nagging feeling in the back of my head.

And I feel unless I can accomplish something universally great, that it will be there until the day I die.

Now I understand why we need to find our passion in life, and do great things. Because that's what that nagging feeling in the back of our minds is there for.

I almost feel angry that lifting weights, eating better, be over all more healthy, learning new things, fucking new women won't be enough. I need to turn that anger into desire, we need to turn that anger into desire. I want to accomplish great things, and I fucking will accomplish great things. Because the only person stopping me is myself.

[–]Primemale 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Now I understand why we need to find our passion in life, and do great things. Because that's what that nagging feeling in the back of our minds is there for.

This just means your still not fulfilling YOUR desires, try and find out what's lagging, Not everyone has to change the world, do what ever you want, it's your life.

[–]ChadThundercockII 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is about community, to survive and thrive. We don't have these three elements anymore. We are alone, not needing to survive and not thinking about thriving.

This idea came to my mind when I was watching this show

[–]KilluaKanmuru 16 points17 points  (0 children)

The shade of red grows darker. Deeper.

[–]causeandcorrelation 4 points5 points  (4 children)

May be a result of the publishing of the handbook. Consolidated information to be consumed off line and reflected upon.

[–]Heizenbrg 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Where is this handbook that you speak of?

[–]xinhoj 3 points3 points [recovered]

"read the sidebar"

tldr: red pill hand book dot com

[–]TheFireMachine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It is not immediately available in the side bar with the other selected readings and there is no website red pill hand book dot com.

edit. Website does exist. My mistake. Thanks for the information.

[–]qwertyleftme 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Evolution is not progress, it is change. I would like to say that posts have become more mature. more refined. They reflect the experience and trial and error learning.

[–]kalstate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, whatever it is, it's more valuable than a degree in women's studies.

[–]seenit3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The question of one's legacy creeps up about once or twice a month on here. I agree that this one is the most direct and complete in recent memory.

[–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (1 child)

not to suck too much dick, but endorsed contributor posts have been nearly 100% top notch quality across the board ever since they started having them for quite a while now

[–]kalstate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe. Probably. Hence my use of the word 'seem'. Perhaps I just learned how to filter out RP101 posts. Or maybe I'm just a dirty little karma whore...

[–]kaspell 79 points80 points  (16 children)

I've often asked myself this question. I'm gonna be 36 in less than a month and I'm just now starting to feel like a man again. It's been a bit of a trip to tell the truth, and when I sit back and get out of my head and look at the things I've done and what I've experienced, I go wow... why do i not feel confident? 'Saving private Ryan, was the first time I remember really asking myself... what makes a life worth living? I remember asking my dad, who is by all measures a great man... he had no answer for me.

 

A bit of background. In my brief time on this earth, I've been on a nationally ranked wrestling team throughout high school in 4A, should have taken state at least twice but didn't. I've run a nuclear power plant on a naval submarine, I've worked as an operator in chemical plants, done ironwork in refineries, been on search and rescue teams (fire/rescue/hazmat). I managed to get an engineering degree from one of California's more prestigious public schools in my 30's and am now working as an engineer for the Gov in a role I really can't talk about. I've seen and been involved with the dark underbelly of society at times in my past, to the point which nothing really ever surprises me anymore, with the exception of people being stand up when I would have banked against it.

 

The thing is, after getting into some near life wrecking legal trouble in my twenties my self esteem got wrecked. I felt more like an adult at 24 than than I did until quite recently when I took stock of what I've actually been a part of as a contributing member of society.

 

As far as I can tell, the true test of a man, boils down to being able to walk away from the things that leave feelings of regret. It's a lot like how I see happiness. If you're happy/content, more than you aren't, you're winning at this life thing. If you go for something and fail, but left it all out on the line... you won. The only real regret is the lesson unlearned or the mistake repeated.

 

I guess the point I want to share is that, in my experience, We (I) can be our harshest critics. The self can be ruthless, we are not objective when it comes to our own place in the scheme of things. Do what feels right, avoid the things that feel like your getting away with something, own your mistakes, treat people with as much kindness as you can muster. These are the things I've found that have helped start to reclaim my own respect and begin feeling like a man again. Woman and relatioships are all secondary or tertiary issues to how you treat and deal with self.

 

Hopefully you got something from this, I'm out of practice soap-boxing, but wanted to share as this topic.... what qualifies the title 'Man' is one that I ponder often and is central to the things I care about.

[–]RPmatrix 11 points12 points  (5 children)

I remember asking my dad, who is by all measures a great man... he had no answer for me.

here's a recent one, a Man I (have always) admired greatly after I learned about him (in the late 80's)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hollows

and here's a slightly 'less recent' BUT NO less 'relevant' one ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller

[–]kaspell 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Will read later, thanks for the links.

[–]fistulatte 1 points1 points [recovered]

From now on you need never await temporal attestation to your thought. You think the truth."

It continued, "You do not have the right to eliminate yourself. You do not belong to you. You belong to Universe. Your significance will remain forever obscure to you, but you may assume that you are fulfilling your role if you apply yourself to converting your experiences to the highest advantage of others." - The voice buckminster heard before almost committing suicide.

[–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (1 child)

"You do not have the right to eliminate yourself. You do not belong to you. You belong to Universe. Your significance will remain forever obscure to you, but you may assume that you are fulfilling your role if you apply yourself to converting your experiences to the highest advantage of others."

which I very much believe IS the case!

thank you for that quote bro, Bucky has been one of the few True Heroes I've had. He kinda taught me much of what I now know to be True!

Fred was another, I wish/hope I achieve 1/1000 of either and I'll be happy!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

If you go for something and fail, but left it all out on the line... you won.

Yes. We can't guarantee outcomes. All we can guarantee is whether or not we give 100%. If you give 100% every day, anything good that was ever going to happen to you, will.

[–]kaspell 5 points6 points  (1 child)

It's glib, but "control is an illusion" is one of the mantras I love to throw at people, a lot of time i think people suspect I'm joking.

[–]2wiseclockcounter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it's because a movement of people ruined the impact of nihilistic wisdom when they used it as a soapbox for their needy, attention-seeking egos. Now anyone who says such things comes off as try-hard or sarcastic.

[–]deadstick_it 0 points1 point  (4 children)

As a former smoothy, concur that the training required and the duties required to operate a nuclear power plant on a submarine are makers of men.

To further that, being THE guy that the engineer asks first "can we do this?" And the Squeng informing you with a handshake that that was the best HUR he has ever seen is verification of man status.

I somehow lost this accidental alpha when I was the shit in the navy but thanks to these fine fellows here at TRP, I am getting it back!

[–]kaspell 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Whoever thought three knots to nowhere could be character building? I will never forget the feeling of no longer owning the title of dinq nub bitch.... or the cherry that lives in baby neptunes belly, or going to sea on the backup shaft seal so thet captain can hang out in florida for his kids baseball game. when you're in it the absurd seems commonplace. I just feel bad for the new guys having to slowly integrate now. Their hidden porn is gonna have to be chicks and dudes now.... but the gay shit won't be for humor.... just equality

[–]deadstick_it 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yeah, having a smoke while watching over 1000 gallons/hour of the ocean coming into your boat at a depth of 500 ft and not giving a shit is where men are made. Instead of being bitches we used brains and found that if we went deeper the leak rate would lower. Why? Because the ship's asshole would squeeze down on the shaft. Instead of freaking out like women, we tried shit and came up with a half assed solution. I miss those days.

[–]kaspell 0 points1 point  (1 child)

We had an EM1 destroy and MG while running drills once. he was running his proficiency watch, otherwise we never let him near the EP . he went to shift to a half power and paralelled about 120 out of phase thinking he was energizing a dead tie bus. my buddy was taking lighting grounds on the port side when the peckerhead went molten into the lagging. I was AEA shooting the shit with my chief and another 2cnd when half the lights dropped. The RO at the time was later reported to have essentially yawned, looked at his pump, informed the eoow and every other motherfucker in maneuvering.. in a slightly surprised tone... "well, starting RPcp #1 and #4" and went about the rest of the business. It was the day after we had NR onboard pitching some congressmen for money.

[–]deadstick_it 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ha! That RO sounded like me. ORSE comes around and they commented on how my drill operations were no different than day to day. Shit didn't phase me. I lived for disaster while on watch.

[–]Fagbasher01 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Navy nuc? i havent ran in to another one since i got out lol

[–]kaspell 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup. I'm in the middle of the desert and have a couple ex nukes I work with or have worked with oddly enough. It had been a few years without having any shippies around, but it's nice now that the FTN feelings have faded into a distant memory.

[–]trpmanforlife 163 points164 points  (15 children)

THIS is core TRP philosophy right here. TRP isn't about getting chicks, it's about improving yourself and making yourself the best man possible and going out there and experiencing new and unique things. The work that you produce and your legacy will be remembered after your death, not how many chicks you banged or how much beer you could hold.

[–]VayneWolf 47 points48 points  (1 child)

We'll said. I read TRP not to learn how to pick up women, but to become a real man who knows what he wants and how to get it. Women really are just another minor benefit to being able to take charge of your own life.

[–]darkstout 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Perhaps the sidebar mission statement should be updated since it says TRP is about getting chicks ("sexual strategy").

[–]holybad 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I always thought sexual strategy meant a strategy that is exclusive to a particular sex (TRP is a male only strategy) rather than a strategy for getting sex.

[–]darkstout 9 points10 points  (1 child)

In evolutionary psychology, sexual strategy refers to human mating strategies. e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8483982

[–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

TRP isn't about getting chicks, it's about improving yourself and making yourself the best man possible and going out there and experiencing new and unique things.

Not at all mutually exclusive

[–][deleted] -4 points-4 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]648262 11 points12 points  (5 children)

More or less all of us unplugged to get chicks. And you get chicks by being the best man you can possibly be. Not pretending, but being.

That path does involve discussing topics such as "what is a good man", "what does a good man do" or other topics that religious people have been talking about for thousands of years.

Some men then deviates from the path by changing the goal of getting chicks to be a good man. Chicks are still there, but no longer the goal.

[–]ThoughtOverFear 5 points6 points  (2 children)

"More or less all of us unplugged to get chicks."

Nope. I unplugged because of my interest in material science, and most of all, biology. I knew every bit regarding social interaction that the media feeds us is absolute nonsense from the beginning.

[–]648262 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You're one of the people I had in mind when I added "more or less" to that sentence.

[–]SMEGMA_CHEESE 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or having already gotten your dream girl and been supremely disappointed, so women no longer seem as important after-the-fact.

For me, women just get pregnant and stuff and I'm only sexually interested in them because of biology, so all I'd want a girlfriend for now is a bit of companionship. I got Tinder out of curiosity and I've found that I pay much more attention to her profile than her pictures and realized that I'd turn down any sexual advances because of the risks involved, but I'd always go for closeness. I'd of course take things in what direction she wants in order for her not to feel rejected if it comes to that, but sex is "whatever" now for the most part.

[–]RPmatrix -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

younger bro, I'd choose your words more carefully when posting around here, unless you wan't to be 'mistaken'

just sayin

[–]TheQuestion78 130 points131 points  (30 children)

I agree with the general sentiment but this is idolized view of history to me.

Most men of the Great Depression fucking died of starvation.

Most men in the World Wars died before they could even raise a family or if they were lucky went home a cripple.

Most of the chivalrous and brave knights of the Middle Ages typically didn't see more than one battle ever in the lives. Most of their time was spent playing nice with lords and oppressing serfs.

Most men throughout all of time simply went through the motions of life. They, like the typical man of today, grew up, learned a trade (got a job), raise a family, and eventually died.

What I am trying to say is our generation isn't at a much more disadvantage as you imply OP. Yes because of the internet and technology most of our days are spent glued to our computers or TVs, but I am sure the men of old spent most of their time on hobbies of little value as well.

All that being said we definitely ought to make the most out of ourselves and break the mold of the "average" male who does nothing but go through the motions.

[–]docbloodmoney 21 points22 points  (12 children)

I'm wondering if the world wars and all those children growing up without fathers was a strong contributor to the mess men find themselves in today. Boys need strong male role models. Has it just been getting worse every generation since then?

[–][deleted] 61 points62 points  (0 children)

I would imagine boys only need one of a few things to grow into genuine men.

Real Adversity.

Male leadership.

Masculine peers.

In a pinch any one will do, modern society/feminism saw to delete all three.

[–]RPmatrix 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Good query; In my country, Australia, due to WW1, we "lost" (killed) OVER 40% of the men under 25yo of that generation, (with many more wounded or had "shell shock" aka (now as) PTSD, legless, armless etc) and so many of the next generation grew up without fathers ...

She 'lost' 2 husbands, her first to WW1 and her second to WW2! I had no grandpa on my mums side for this reason!

[–]PedophilePriest 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Makes me think what effect the nearly constant wars the world has had until recently, played in controlling women's Hypergamy.

100 women for every 75 men makes a far more competitive environment.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One should also note that that 40% killed also likely represented the top 40% physically. So genetically the decline becomes a thing too.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'm sure that was a strong contributor, but there were two greater factors, IMHO.

1) Men had driven the advancement of civilization for millennia to ever greater heights - and got to the point where we slaughtered each other on an industrial scale, and invented a weapon that could wipe us all out. I think there was a sense that masculinity had overreached itself, that it had a dark side, that was always known, but that dark side now threatened everything. Maybe there needed to be a 'balance' of more feminine values before we truly fucked up?

2) The nature of work changed. Whereas in previous centuries no woman in her right mind wanted her husband's or father's job, because it was physically hard, quite often dangerous, and she was offered the much better (relatively) and easier job of staying at home, looking after the children, and feeding the chickens. Suddenly, they could go to work in comfortable offices and still call it 'work'. They could be equal, do everything that men could do (cough).

The combination of these two, a drawing back from the brink of masculinity alongside an encouragement of women to think they could do 'anything' (so long as it was warm and safe) made feminism inevitable as a stage of our society.

Add to this the grip that Marxism held on so many minds, the debasement of this idea into feminism was too enticing. How were we to know it was doomed to fail miserably?

[–]burn_bobonga 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There was definitely a period of delinquency following WW2 due to dead fathers. Charities were founded to address this problem and provide strong male role models. I can't say whether it's gotten worse. Things are just changing. Wars aren't killing dads, policies are. Poverty still contributes the same it always has.

It's harder to inspire boys when you're competing with modern distractions. Try to pull them away from their cozy homes and technology and they go into withdrawals. The chemistry can't be too different from narcotic addiction.

The good news is that society is still very receptive to the need to intervene. People want to help boys without father figures and they want men to do the mentoring.

[–]RedditArgument 3 points4 points  (5 children)

A very curious question no doubt. One would expect the former Soviet Union to be a feminist hellhole due to the loss of almost an entire generation of men by that logic, however I guess the situations within the USSR naturally saw to that not happening.

Alternatively we see Germany and Japan having the two lowest birthrates in the world. Perhaps you're onto something.

[–]SMEGMA_CHEESE 12 points13 points  (4 children)

In Japan it's more like you can choose between living your entire life doing things you love in the most interesting and feature-packed cities in the world (Cafes where all the waitresses are naked prostitutes? Check. Cafes where you order sexual favors as a side-dish for your food? Double check. A sizeable community for every hobby you could ever imagine? YUP.)

OR

You could give up your life to support a loveless marriage and a child you never get to see, having the only thing you look forward to every night being getting black-out drunk until eventually you can't take it anymore and kill yourself.

Don't get me wrong, they're so sexist in Japan that they view women as on the same level as children and give them very few responsibilities that they don't ask for, the men just have a crushingly strong sense of responsibility and they can't run away from stuff.

So... why get married? Why have children? They have 0 incentives.

[–]ShanksNes 2 points3 points  (3 children)

That's very interesting. Gotta visit sometime i guess.

[–]RedditArgument 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Yeah I live there and aside from the getting smashed every night it's really not like that at all. I imagine naked prostitute cafes would be a tad more common knowledge if they were actually available to anyone.

Also smegma is wrong in my opinion about the men treating women like children, they treat their wives like their mothers, many even getting a daily allowance (a fucking grown man getting an allowance of money he earned) from their wives.

It is a fascinating country but don't let anyone confuse you into thinking it's a RP society. Maybe MGTOW if you can call those herbivores men.

[–]SMEGMA_CHEESE 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The naked prostitute cafes are there, you just aren't looking hard enough!

The thing about women I mentioned is related to their work environment. I don't know if my Japanese girlfriend had a screw-loose or something (Ok, probably. She was insane.) but they weren't trusted with any serious jobs, but they were also treated very nicely by all of the men, naturally. They just know their places over there.

Are you living in Tokyo? Do you have a Japanese girl?

[–]RedditArgument 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes and yes and yeah at my company the 'office ladies' don't really seem to have much responsibility although there are a few women who share my STEM profession.

Unfortunately the workplace is probably where the treat women as children philosophy matters least. Although a few of my coworkers do seem to have a rather positive red pill relationship/marriage, (from what I can tell of course) it's rather rare.

[–]DoesNotMatterAnymore 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Most men in the World Wars died before they could even raise a family or if they were lucky went home a cripple.

This is an interactive video about how many people died in WWII: http://www.fallen.io/ww2/

Watch it!

[–]5t3fan0 4 points5 points  (0 children)

i did watch it; gotta say, i've read a lot and studied history and such, when you read any numbers the mind really can't even barely grasp the size of it... but seeing these towers of small men stacking higher and higher, and each is 1000 people, everyone with her/his own dreams and fears and friends and family..... damn

also, unrelated, but when the graphic shows the deaths compared to world population, the earliest conflict are just insane, considering everything was done by "blade and arrow" (okay excluding famine and disease fo course, but still!)

[–]TheQuestion78 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just...damn man. Videos like this just make me realize that yes war has many "manly" traits to it but the cost is just too damn high. So many men didn't get to live out their lives fully, and the impact such massive death has on children/the next generation is huge as well...

[–]kinklianekoff 3 points4 points  (0 children)

exactly, our generations existential crisis is simply an abundance of resources. we got plenty of food and time and can dwell on our lack of greatness.

it's a common theme in literature, what do you do when you don't have to do anything?

[–]Hilarious_Haplogroup 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes and amen to your comment! It drives me nuts when men that were fortunate enough to have been born into peace and prosperity pine away and long to have been born into the WWII generation. That's bullshit. Be fucking grateful that you live in a world that isn't drenched in the horror of bombing raids and large battlefields with thousands of dead strewn about for miles. You have the privelige to choose your own battles and fight with your mind and your labor instead of with bullets. Even in the arc of a mundane life, you can create greatness if and when you decide to act.

[–]doulikefishsticks69 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Its ok to die trying for greatness.

[–]TheQuestion78 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'd rather live a full and complete life than dying for glory. In Greek Mythology, Achilles' greatest regret was choosing to die for glory rather than living a more full life. The afterlife doesn't care how you are remembered in the living world.

Also reminds me of this quote from Catcher in the Rye:

The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.

[–]PlanB_pedofile 0 points1 point  (2 children)

If you want a measurement of a man, look at how many mourn his passing.

Through life I discovered that unless you are doing something great for many people, you wouldn't be missed. "Oh, he died? I remember him" I watched friends become dust. We had our little funeral, some with just family, some died alone with no one. There's evem those whom you wonder what happened to them and the only google result is a small byline in the obituary.

I'm glad when my name is googled, my accomplishments show up. My art is the top result, my website is the next. My community knows me and I've met people who've heard my name before I even know theirs.

It's my tiny bit of immortality. I have an unknown amount of years left. Can't honestly tell you if it's many or few. But even if it's few, I'll make the most use of them I can. I don't want to slack off as if I have many.

[–]eltiolukee 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm glad when my name is googled, my accomplishments show up.

PlanB_pedofile

I'm sorry but i find your username hilarious

[–]ShanksNes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is a good way of thinking about your own value.

[–]Barely_Intrepid -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Opressed

Disadvantaged

male

You write like an intern on the Hillary Clinton campaign.

[–]TheQuestion78 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is this a compliment or an insult...?

[–]PowerfulHTX 19 points20 points  (0 children)

The way our society is set-up now, a man has to choose the road less traveled, the harder route. With all these creature comforts we have available in our modern age, it seems very easy to slide into complacency. It's so easy to go to college, get drunk, take a shit job, eat shit food, sit on the couch everyday, get lost in sitcoms, and next thing you know 40 years have gone by. It's terrifying.

Unfortunately, I don't see many men choosing the tough route that was necessary in the past. My friends and I often joke about the "pussification" of America. It is all to real. It is something that has me greatly worried for the future.

[–]slippery_people 16 points17 points  (1 child)

What if a demon crept after you into your loneliest loneliness some day or night, and said to you: "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence - even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence will ever be turned once more, and you with it, you speck of dust!" - Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth, and curse the demon that so spoke? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment in which you would answer him: "You are a God, and never did I hear anything so divine!" If that thought acquired power over you as you are, it would transform you, and perhaps crush you; the question with regard to all and everything: "Do you want this once more, and also for innumerable times?" would lie as the heaviest burden upon your activity! Or, how would you have to become favorably inclined to yourself and to life, so as to long for nothing more ardently than for this last eternal sanctioning and sealing?

[–]bustanutmeow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is ...... wow. That sets in my mind exactly what I need to do. I would never relive my life up til now for ever. Time to kick this shit into overdrive.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 37 points38 points  (3 children)

Those are good questions to ask yourself, what have you done? What accomplishments have you achieved in spite of apparently insurmountable obstacles and impossible odds? What can you do, as in what do you know you're capable of? You know because you've been tested.

Me? Easy. Two wars, a crazy amount of work punctuated by boredom and terror, which on it's own might be enough. The rest of my life outside those five years separated by a decade, has also been a challenge. I've fought my way back from barely being able to walk. Endured a decade of physical abuse. Achieved a rather hard earned career in wrestling both in high school and in the military. I build cars, not just slap parts on something, I take a rusted out bare shell and make it haul ass, handle well, and run like a practically new car. Full frame off restorations and street machine builds, doing 99% of the work required.

I'm a great dad to my daughters despite the shit the state and my ex did to prevent me from being part of their lives. Of everything this is my proudest part, even if there was 12 years I wasn't allowed to be there for them.

You don't have to be impressed, I simply did my jobs, and I have fun with engines rather than computers. If you want to have confidence, you must be tested. Without the tests, the stress, the dangerous opportunities to overcome what forces others to stop, you will not know just how much you can endure. Once you've endured a great hardship and have been tested, everything else seems insignificant and petty. Stress is easy to handle when you've had lots of it.

Heavy lifting builds you, mentally, physically, and emotionally. Hard men are built by hard lives. Soft men have soft lives. If you want to be hard, you have to earn it. So go earn it.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

I've been familiar with your story for months, maybe bordering years and I actually thought of you specifically and a few others whilst typing this out.

The submissiion hinges not on the economic gains or lack thereof from military service, it's about knowing yourself, having your mettle tested and having your grandkids love talking to grandad cus "he's seen some shit!".

Without sucking you off too bad I know a beer with you would be more enlightening than a beer with a lot of other ECs, theorists, insightful as they are, do not hold a candle to real struggle and experience. Afterall, in theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice; they are not.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Money doesn't make a man, anyone can make money. It's a shallow measure to have money. I know wimps with soft hands who can't handle a little stress who have money. If it's what drives you, go get it just like anything else, but not having a big pile in the bank doesn't make you less of a man anymore than millions makes you a man.

My story isn't as rough as others, I'm here and talk about it is the difference. I'm not big on conjecture, hypothesis, and hopeful thoughts about how it should or could be. I live in reality, try to see things how they are without tinted glasses. Something feminists simply can't do.

If we sat around my firepit and talked, it'd probably be about cars...And how to kill more mosquitoes.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A sword must be forged in fire. Be the sword.

[–]nosesandsight 67 points68 points  (28 children)

There are thousands of things to do to have stories to tell...

  • Have a threesome
  • Participate in an amateur boxing match
  • Hike the Pacific Coast Trail
  • Do crazy awesome hallucinogens with a Shaman
  • Ride a motorcycle across asia
  • Open a bar or a restaurant
  • Learn to surf in nicouraga
  • Learn to do acrobatics or trapeeze
  • Live in a monastry for a month
  • Play music on the street for money
  • Live out of a truck and travel the country
  • Learn to repair motorcycles or cars or boats
  • Go to a Dance Party on drugs and let loose

There is a fucking awesome gorgeous world out there. With lots of crazy beautiful things to do and see and participate in. You don’t need a war or paramilitary training. You just need a sense of adventure and mischief.

(Thanks for the post... quality writing and thoughts)

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I guess I've always placed more value on experiences like the ones you've listed above for the better part of my twenties.

I didn't always make the right choice and may bank account won't impress anyone, but I've got a few stories to tell the grandkids.

[–]jx234 5 points6 points  (1 child)

These are great things to do.

However, why the emphasis in the comments on doing these in order to have stories to tell? Why not do them for the experiences themselves? Reminds me of sloots who can only enjoy things through a camera lens so as to post them on facebook.

[–]2wiseclockcounter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yea, after a childhood of well-intentioned emphasis from my father on collecting stories, the response eventually came to mind:

Some of the most beautiful moments in life would still make for terrible stories.

The meaning of life is to be alive. Stories aren't something you create by intentionally making risky choices, they're a product of attracting the company of interesting people and saying Yes to things fearlessly. In the temporary absence of these conditions, one must nevertheless strive to lead a beautiful existence. One where you can proudly relish as many moments as possible.

Riding to a cliff to have a beer with a friend at sunset is a horrible story, but serenity doesn't come with an opportunity cost.

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

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[–]SMEGMA_CHEESE -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't know a lot of good people.

[–]An_All-Beef_Engineer 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Why delete it? It's inspiring...

[–]SMEGMA_CHEESE -1 points0 points  (4 children)

I just figured people were going to hate it...

[–]An_All-Beef_Engineer 0 points1 point  (3 children)

The human benchmark is quite entertaining. I don't understand the sonata though. I know it took skill to create, but it's missing something. Can't tell what. The Funk mixes are off the chain man! Great work with those!

[–]SMEGMA_CHEESE -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Yeah, that game is the tits! It's amazing have the fact that you have a good memory verified as well. The is the first part is mainly major, the next part is a sort of bridge, and then the last part is the minor of the first part. I have dissonant chords connecting the different sections to give it a certain feeling that I like in songs, but I feel that people are much more receptive to songs that don't have them, so it's good to know!

And thanks! I gotta make more funk mixes in the future! I made a song today which is a chill-wave remix of the Mexican Hat Dance song LOL It's pretty funny, but I think I'll just keep it to myself.

[–]An_All-Beef_Engineer 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You've got the technical aspect of the classical music down, i'm trying to explain the musical 'flow' is off. I'm not that technical enough to have experience with the dissonant chord, but they're throwing off the structure of your song. Perhaps if you could share some songs with them...

Holla at me when you put more funk mixes up. Thanks man.

[–]SMEGMA_CHEESE -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Alright, I can see why people wouldn't agree with the flow. Check out "Animals As Leaders" for a band that isn't classical, but it has a broken-up flow.

[–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (10 children)

Not to shit on your spanish thing, but being barely intelligible enough to converse and being conversational are veeerrrryy different things. Much less being truly fluent. Spanish speakers on the whole are very forgiving and inviting if you want to try and speak with them. Like you, I could "speak" with someone and we'd understand each other for basic stuff pretty early in.

Took me another 4-5 years of classes and study, plus 4 months of only-Spanish immersion in Spain until I first heard the comment "you hardly sound foreign" And even then, it was only when I was speaking about common stuff in the present tense. I can speak and understand in all tenses but less convincingly. And even in just present that was still with an American accent. That is "conversational" level

Just trying to properly set expectations for people considering it. True fluency takes many thousands of hours of real conversation with real speakers of the language being surrounded by native use of the language.

[–]SMEGMA_CHEESE -2 points-1 points  (9 children)

Control your butthurt, man.

[–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Convincing retort, great reasoning there for sure. I'm sure your speech is flawless after 50 days. We should bow down to your clear and overwhelming superiority. Can I suck your dick? Just a little? Promise I wont use teeth

[–]SMEGMA_CHEESE -2 points-1 points  (7 children)

You're implying that I don't study incredibly hard. You're just upset that it took you so long and you didn't stay as dedicated as I have, so you tried insulting me and you tried to imply that I suck to make yourself feel better. Yes, you didn't try quite hard enough in Spanish, so you didn't advance as fast as you could have, but you bloody speak Spanish so be proud! Jeez.

[–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Nah bro. I have no idea how hard you study. Effort does not guarantee a result. You're just pretty obviously early on in the Dunning Kruger effect. I'm not all that great at Spanish and I've got quite a bit of experience with it, so it makes me lol heartily when I see internet bros talkin about how great they are at it after 50 days (lol). Good on you for doing it dude, just dont count your chickens before they hatch. You've climbed the foothills and claimed you've been to the summit. You're taking credit before its due. There's a psychological effect where if you announce you've "done" something before youve actually done it or you announce your plans to do something, you get the dopamine release of actually doing it without the effort.

You're just upset that it took you so long and you didn't stay as dedicated as I have

Fucking lol. Faggot levels critical. Been dedicated a whole 50 days now, shit, I better kill myself. I cant top that

By the way I started playing piano 50 days ago and now I write virtuosic pieces.

[–]SMEGMA_CHEESE -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

I've never claimed I'm at the summit lol When did I claim that? I'm just saying that I can express my thoughts with words in Spanish enough to get my point across after 59 days, not that I can speak with perfectly flawless grammar and talk about international politics. Fuck no! But I can speak Spanish. If I need to calm down an Angry Spanish man in a restaurant, I can do that now. I'm sorry that you aren't capable of doing what I can do, but you gotta control your butthurt levels. You are exactly the type of person I was talking about in my post.

[–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Reading your bullet points, they all start with "I." So, if the people you talk about most in your post are butthurt, that would be you.

[–]SMEGMA_CHEESE -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

THAT'S THE WORST COMEBACK EVER LOLOLOLOL That was legendary hahahahahhaha Holy fuck!

[–]nosesandsight 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! Exactly. So much cool shit to do.

See other people's lists are always good motivation.

[–]ShanksNes -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You sir are awesome. Hope to learn more from you.

[–]AvoidinAnalBeads -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Adding these things to my bucket list right now!

[–]1Yakatonker 47 points48 points  (13 children)

We were warriors by birth, years of brutal exertion, bravery and commitment was the price of feeling entitled to old age in front of the fire and getting fat. Now we are a generation of spiritually and physically fat and old men at age 20 wondering what this nagging feeling at the back of our collective heads is.

You haven't done anything. We haven't done anything. Short of military service or a committed effort to traveling what could you tell your grandchildren that they'd care for? What have you done to deserve being a family elder, someone to listen to, what have you seen or done that was in anyway remarkable?

Military is a grinder for the economically poor and a hardcore incentivizer of slavery which draws in predatory women(military benefits/credits for married service men). Traveling is fun but over rated in a sense of necessity, really most people are incapable of actually analyzing and observing anything of note from such travels and or establishing and expanding their perspectives, at most its only a means to establish social credit in a local environment which lends more to gynocentric capitol.

The so called fat generation is limited by economical factors, women are not economical, Gynocentrism isn't as attractive or as effective as a dopamine dispenser as video games. Women are also not economical because the new distribution of wealth amongst women, but because the mass dive in male participation in the jobs market and the economy of hypergamy makes most men completely unattractive. Video games are a great redistribution of male time and effort, rather then the abuse of women for men who've fallen below the economic belt line for a majority of women. Most guys here are gynocentric and frankly don't give a shit about the macro, "blue pill men" so this often flies over them and they go into conspiracies about socialism, lazy ass millennials, which are all poor excuses(the alpha hampster) for their own information/perspective deficits.

Does it matter what your legacy is, should such a thing even matter? Frankly being realistic you're being what's termed as a romanticist, an idealist. What actually matters most to children is your investment of time in them, that's the most premium item by which a child, grandchild will ever remember you by if you're in a close familial relationship.

[–][deleted] 46 points47 points  (1 child)

Agree with this. My grandpa fought in WWII and Korean war (he apparently hated guns after Korean war, I think he saw some shit). Don't really give a shit about him doing all that stuff when he was young ; all I remember is that everyday before his cancer got bad he would pick me up from pre-k and ask me about my day and give me a lollipop or mint candy he got from the bank. 12 years or so after he died my grandma gave me his a-2 leather bomber jacket and in one of the pockets were two mint candies. He was a pretty solid guy in my books. RIP

[–]ChadThundercockII 5 points6 points  (0 children)

May he rest in peace. Grandpas are the coolest people ever.

[–]thedeathofgod 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I have to say I disagree. My most memorable moments with my grandfather is him telling me stories about working on the pipeline in Alaska. I loved hearing about the bar fights and the bears that would bust into the camp. It always made him seem larger than life.

[–]DarthRoach 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Military is not about travel or whatever. It's about experiencing hardship, having your ego broken down and rebuilt.

Haven't done any service but it keeps nagging me. My country doesn't have the meatgrinder of conscription so one has to make a conscious choice to enlist.

[–]Khan_Shisnis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you enlist, go Infantry (Special Operations/Airborne if you have it).

You'll thank yourself later.

[–]TheWaterTemple 10 points11 points  (6 children)

Traveling is fun but over rated in a sense of necessity, really most people are incapable of actually analyzing and observing anything of note from such travels and or establishing and expanding their perspectives

Traveling is essential to establishing perspectives. Given the odds, we don't live in one of the best places on the planet. The world is filled with great people and places and the most a person can learn from a place is to spend time experiencing the environment. I wouldn't want to waste my time buying a car before looking under the hood.

Most guys here are gynocentric and frankly don't give a shit about the macro, "blue pill men" so this often flies over them and they go into conspiracies about socialism, lazy ass millennials, which are all poor excuses(the alpha hampster) for their own information/perspective deficits.

Very white knight of you comrade. Go now, ride into the darkness on your high horse.

Edit: I agree with you on everything else.

PS fuck off, I don't give a shit.

[–]redpilldiscourse 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Traveling is fun but over rated in a sense of necessity, really most people are incapable of actually analyzing and observing anything of note from such travels and or establishing and expanding their perspectives

Traveling is essential to establishing perspectives. Given the odds, we don't live in one of the best places on the planet. The world is filled with great people and places and the most a person can learn from a place is to spend time experiencing the environment. I wouldn't want to waste my time buying a car before looking under the hood.

I have to agree strongly. Most people on here are Americans, and let me tell you, the US is not the super amazing place everyone makes it out to be. 'Murica, fuck yeah? More like, 'Murica, fuck no.

It seems most of you on here are already aware of this, however.

I've lived in 3 different countries in my life so far - and intend to continue travelling. Rather ironically, I am currently living in America. But I am not an american citizen and was not born here. I'm only here while the tech economy is still good and earning the big bucks in silicon valley. Then I am out of here.

[–]1Yakatonker 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Traveling is essential to establishing perspectives. Given the odds, we don't live in one of the best places on the planet. The world is filled with great people and places and the most a person can learn from a place is to spend time experiencing the environment. I wouldn't want to waste my time buying a car before looking under the hood.

Hardly, most people who travel to foreign nations don't go to talk to the locals let alone have the capability to speak their language, live the land, most travel for leisure rather then for academic exploration. A book, a thesis, an internet post are loaded with perspective, the first two a mass templates to download concepts into a working framework of a narrative. The average laymen has the ability to gain the perspective an individual would've accumulated within a lifetime in only a few months, and I speak in contrast of people only fifteen years ago before the internet became a mainstream information tool.

Very white knight of you comrade. Go now, ride into the darkness on your high horse.

Its quite easy to see in the narrative of this limited philosophy, the antithesis is the blue pillers, the contrast group, the enemy, the boggyman and the personification of all that is wrong with half the world, or just a good scape goat for men here who don't want to own up to the fact that they too feed the Gynocentric beast with their own thirst for female validation. This system as we live it now exists on male weakness for the female form, its an infection point women psychologically twist to extract mass amounts of wealth from us. Its not all bad though, society is being socially engineered towards egalitarianism, women working means most men are effectively priced out of the dating market and are forced towards hobbies other then women, which is helpful as the north american economy is leaning heavily towards an information economy.

[–]TheWaterTemple 1 point2 points  (1 child)

most people who travel

I stopped reading.

You seem intelligent, but your verbose rhetoric does not sway my opinion. You are a snake in the grass comrade, ignorant to reality. You celebrate mediocrity, while maintaining the belief that you are a better, and more enlightened man than most.

[–]1Yakatonker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I stopped reading.

You seem intelligent, but your verbose rhetoric does not sway my opinion. You are a snake in the grass comrade, ignorant to reality. You celebrate mediocrity, while maintaining the belief that you are a better, and more enlightened man than most.

I'm afraid that I quite belong to the human animal kingdom, my intelligence is strong in certain areas, but weak in others just like anyone else as I work an economy for my own survival, as do others who specialize in other fields, work, etc.

Mediocrity? You don't define this and such a thing is something I find unacceptable, the super majority of people belong to mediocrity, no exceptions to those here either. Mediocrity as I define it is subservience to a system built upon the limiting subconscious motivations of the human animal, the micro(individual) reflects on the macro(society), if the individuals are garbage and embrace inequity, ignorance and indifference to others in their micro society become them, the red pill does not fall outside of this whatsoever, the red pill here is a economical philosophy to teach men to acquire Gynocentric capitol to trade for the services of women. What society can you build from such a limited philosophy? Thankfully the economy of present isn't being driven by the so called alpha traited individual, rather economy is now shifting rapidly towards those of intelligence, those that are of the information economy, an economy that is exterior to the human animal and can help blunt its deficiencies in the formation of a human system outside of human tribalism, the old order which held the weight of Gynocentrism on its shoulders.

I'm not enlightened but I've managed to break my perspective far outside the mainstream and its given me a rather open vantage point to reanalyze everything, the same is applicable to those who ingest the red pill with regards to women, however this philosophy is a fractal of whats out there.

[–]ThoughtOverFear -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Read this to understand why people obsessed with travelling are full of shit:

http://www.radixjournal.com/journal/2015/5/19/toxic-fantasies

[–]RPmatrix 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Read this to understand why people obsessed with travelling are full of shit:

there IS a HUGE difference between "obsession' and 'desire'

You should get yourself a dictionary OR (even better) USE this : http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=dig&allowed_in_frame=0

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 9 points10 points  (1 child)

What I did to deserve being called a man? I acted like a man when I was treated like a man by society.

I didn't give up in the moment I was laying in the gutter and was tempted to choose the easy way out and relief myself from the burden of having to stand myself. I fought my way back up. I grabbed myself by my hair and pulled myself out of the shithole I was in.

And I am still fighting every day and I will never give up again. Most other men at my age have given themselves up already. They are dead without knowing it. They are just waiting for their body to follow their mind and for when the time comes to close their eyes forever.

They are trying to lie to themselves, that they are living the life they always wanted, while getting fatter and fatter. They numb themselves with beer and weed to be able to ignore that nagging feeling, that they've built their own prison for themselves and are now unable to escape because of obligations they feel they have and the social pressure they cannot withstand.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 25 points26 points  (6 children)

Good post in general but I take issue with lines such as the following:

What will you tell your grandchildren - what will you have done?

This is similar to the "Man up" and "Serve your country" sort of talk, which is a way to shame you into being accountable to someone else instead of yourself.

Personally, I don't care whether I'll be able to entertain my grandkids with my stories. I don't live my life just so I can have stories for my grandkids, I live it for myself, and if my grandkids happen to like who I am, then that's a small bonus. It's more likely they'll be playing their XBox 1000 or watching their version of Spongebob or Dragon Ball Z than it is for them to be chatting with their grandfather - it's an unfortunate fact of today's society, and I don't want their parents to force them to spend time with me.

However, if my grandkids happen to see their swole grandfather working out and they happen to get interested in me on their own, then yes, I'll give them all kinds of great RP advice and stories.

IMAO: Don't live life so your parents will be proud of you and brag about you to their friends. Don't live your life so you can impress your kids or grandkids. Don't live life so you'll have plenty of people weeping at your funeral. Don't live life so you'll have great stories to impress others. Live life so you can look in the mirror and be happy with what you see.

[–]enriquex 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Exactly. We have no purpose on this planet. 50-80 years after you die, no one will be alive who remembers you. Might as well be happy.

Then you have the ones who are remembered. They gave themselves a purpose and succeeded.

So, give yourself a purpose and succeed, or be happy. Nothing will be handed to you.

[–]1oldredder 4 points5 points  (2 children)

ya... a lot of the people remembered are Kings and killers like Stalin or Hitler. Very few are remembered who did good things, like Tesla. Generally if you're forgotten you've probably lived a good life and not been an asshole.

[–]1aguy01 7 points8 points  (1 child)

We celebrate tons of great men. Lincoln, Jefferson, Newton, Copernicus, Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, Einstein, Hawking.. the list goes on much longer the horrible men.

[–]ChadThundercockII 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hitler is more known than Einstein.

[–]Barely_Intrepid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Offended by a metaphorical perspective?

Good lord.

[–]redpillspeeddate 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Life sometimes gives you the trials that either destroy you or make you stronger. If they make you stronger, I consider that you can proudly call yourself a man.

My wife and my first cousin/best friend both died of sudden brain defects (Anuresym for her, undetected tumor cutting blood flow for him) within 4 weeks of each other. To add extra fuel, wife and I had separated 6 weeks before she died. So heavy shit.

Thankfully I had a great father and mother that gave me the tools to manage putting away both peoples lives and then making myself stronger from it.

I believe if you can handle extreme loss and still make it through the insurance, the legal and the family issues that crop up then you can do anything.

Since this happened I have visited 15 countries, been with 50+ girls from 10+ countries, had 3 different jobs increasing my salary 50% with work that I love and actually now have a proper RPW as an LTR (she's new but she checks all the boxes but I know AWALT) not bad for 3.5 years of hard work.

So my measure of a man is does he control his destiny or does someone else? And if his world crumbles can he rebuild it better?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (13 children)

I'd like to give you people a great example of this. I live in Israel, a military country, surrounded by enemies, years of war and years of unbelievable suffering and courage. My grandfather, killed during a war. My grandmother, ran from her home, joined the army. My great grandfather, escaped before the beginning of the Holocaust. Most of the grandfathers of this country came to a deserted, dry, horrible land and built a fucking country. What have we now? A generation obsessed with iPhones, obsessed with stupid shit. My little sister asked me once "What will we tell our grandchildren", "I don't know" I said. Men became men at the age of 13 and not at the age of 30. They weren't lost and confused, they new what they had to do and they did it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Do you think the Muslims are getting stronger while the Jews are getting weaker? I would have thought that a country such as yours with a strong sense of national identity and constant looming threat would be in a better position than other western countries...?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Our national identity has gone to shit honestly. The country is divided into a hundred small groups. Everyone cares only himself. If we don't take care of this now it will be our downfall.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

It's only the Jewish law. But it's just a ceremony, everyone remains kids.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

It's kind of funny how people percieve Israel. This isn't sparta, nobody becomes a man at 13, trust me. It's just like the US, except that at 18 their's the army. The army is bound to turn you into a man right? Wrong. The reason for this is simple. Kids leaving high school directly transfer to yet another safe, closed, rule oriented system with people above you and punishments for being a bad boy. Now, I'm not talking about the commando which is fucking manly, I'm talking about the majority of the army which is either inteligence are what surrounds it which generally means doing a 9 to 5 and going home at night. Esentially Israeli kids joining the army are not going out into the real world. In fact your average Israeli kid has to wait 3 years to meet the real world and boy does he meet it.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

This is how the entirety of humanity works. Those who achieve are remembers whilst those who do not, are not. I didn't quite understand if you're Jewish yourself but don't let all the Jewish Billionairs, Wall Streeters and CEOs make you believe that once you arrive in Israel you arrive in the land of geniuse. Quite the opposite unfortunately. Hell, what was this conversation about anyway?

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Only life can make you a man. Maybe boys do mature here a tad more quickly because of the general instability this place has to offer. Also, it's hard to keep a kid here in a bubble. You can't help coming across holocaust survivors, war veterans, family's who's kids were killed, PTSD, illegeal immigrants, poor Ethiopians. Seriously, what the fuck is going in this country.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Our generation will be remembered as "worse than the Nazi".

    [–]VayneWolf 17 points18 points  (15 children)

    Excellent post. I'm in my early 20s, and I absolutely hate it when people call me a man.
    We are not men just because we are male and reach a certain age, a real man is forged though years of hardship and effort to EARN the lifestyle he has worked to achieve.
    There are very few real men left in these times, and it's communities like the Red Pill that give me hope that someday we adult males can become real men like our forefathers who lived, fought, and died to bring mankind as far as it's come.
    Modern Feminism is an insult to their memory.

    [–]interestedplayer 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    Modern Feminism is an insult to their memory.

    I like this quote. We like to say feminism is a giant shit test. It's much more than that, it's an insult to all the men who toiled and became great so that feminists could sit infront of the pcs and write a comment on huffpost about how the patriarchy is oppresing them.

    [–]ThoughtOverFear 8 points9 points  (12 children)

    Indeed. It's an insult to the men whose blood was shed on the land we live in, so that feminists can now get on the male-invented internet to post about male privilege. Ain't that some incredible shit.

    [–][deleted]  (6 children)

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      [–]RPmatrix 1 point2 points  (4 children)

      Good post bro, but,

      I think a man is someone who respects no person more than anyone else.

      I respectfully disagree, as 'respect' is earned, not 'given away', do you see why I disagree?/

      If not,, feel free to ask/pm me if you like

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        I think you misunderstand what I'm saying

        I think you're right! (Bro, hint: please, how about some formatting so I can read your posts more easily?)

        Other than that, I agree, although I'd call it "not being judgemental"

        Semantics can be important to get the right message across, esp when written

        It's all good bro, I know you're trying, which is all that counts

        cheers

        RPM

        edit: thanks for taking the formatting hint;

        p.s I'm basically a buddhist, which is for all intents and purposes, an 'atheist" ... but each to their own, it's NP's with me that you're not

        cheers RPM

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          no probs, it's just easier to read and you'll likely get more replies as a result

          If I didn't say it before, welcome to TRP matey, good to hear you're giving life a good go! sweet!

          p.s Good post/question imo

          [–]antariusz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          [–]6030747 4 points5 points  (1 child)

          been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model

          I don't consider these things to be manly.. but whatever.

          [–]stevince 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I've been involved in two bar fights in Dublin and I don't consider it manly either, no pride to be gained from stupid alcohol fueled fights that occur for no reason, felt pretty stupid and childish the day after both

          [–][deleted]  (10 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]Tom_The_Human 11 points12 points  (3 children)

            Whenever I want a little boost of motivation, I think of the millions of years of hardship my forefathers have had to endure to get me here, and realise I'm pissing on their graves by squandering my time when there's things to be done.

            [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 12 points13 points  (2 children)

            Exactly my Great Grandfather robbed Czarist banks to fund the Bolshevik revolution so I could live in a Communist utopia. Im not going to let him down.

            [–]Tom_The_Human 6 points7 points  (0 children)

            Yeah my Grandma and her family are Ukrainian, and had to survive life in a Nazi concentration camp for me to piss away my life on Reddit.

            [–]RPmatrix 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            lmao! Ah GLO you're a man after my own heart!

            My father was a Croation Partisan (who moved to Oz after the war and became a barrister!)

            [–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 8 points9 points  (5 children)

            This is a teaser for the origin story of GLO.

            [–][deleted]  (4 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 1 point2 points  (3 children)

              Thanks for the origin story. Damn, that’s a rough childhood. Folks who have had a tough life don’t have much tolerance for whiners.

              Somehow I was expecting to hear that your father started shooting you up with tren when you hit puberty.

              [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 8 points9 points  (2 children)

              It really wasn't a tough childhood. My family wasn't ritch but I had everything I ever asked for. I had a pretty extensive transformer collection as a boy. Which is definitely a luxury. I had the megatron transformer that turned into a T Rex. Anyone who had that had a great childhood.

              If you are raised on Soviet Values of competitivness, bluntness, and resolve it sets you up for opposition to liberal progressivism. "Cant we all just get along" isn't palletable for someone raised on "Victory at any price."

              [–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Russians have had a rough history so I can see why they would be more pragmatic and competitive.

              Now we know why Russians are the scariest white people.

              [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 7 points8 points  (0 children)

              Watch some dashcam videos lol

              [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (2 children)

              Survived cancer, refused to submit to depression and enjoyed a fulfilling life despite lots of physical handicaps and a short life expectancy. Ah, I am about to marry, even if I cannot have kids and I am not supposed to live to 60. Life is short, but good

              [–]ChadThundercockII 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              It is time to go beyond that brother. Life is waiting for you and you deserve it.

              [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Thanks, I would not have expected such kind words from Chad Thundercock...

              [–]sundaybrunch11 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Reminds me of the book "Assault on Lake Casitas" which is a book recommended here on TRP itself. It was a book about real men on a quest for Olympic glory. The author's mentor gave him a tape with words of wisdom to get him in the right mindset. It starts off like this and would always give me chills:

              " Good day. We are privileged to live another day in this magnificent world. Today you will be tested."

              How does this relate to your post? It is in being tested do we get our rites of passage. To be tested to our absolute limits. To be like warriors soldiering on towards a formidable foe.

              Wake up everyday with the mindset that today, you will be tested.

              [–]RebelWithoutANose 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              It's easy to romanticize this shit. Fight in a war. Fight in a pub. Do something that excludes caution. Yes, adversity is good, except when it breaks you. Ever heard of survivorship bias? A lot of those men died. A lot who didn't only came out with enough strength to just get by.

              What you need to do depends on what your goal, I mean your philosophical ideal, really is.

              You want to feel the greatest heights of emotion and adrenaline? Jump off cliffs, start doing drugs, and accept your truncated lifespan.

              You want stable happiness? Fix your relationship with your parents, make enough money that you don't have to worry about it, and find something living to take care of, whether it's a family or just a potted plant.

              You want to live the Christian good life? Marry a woman, raise some kids, and bend over backwards to make their lives good.

              You want to aleviate suffering in the short term? Donate to a charity. Better yet, move to a developing country for a couple of years, do everything you can to help. Last I read, 10% of the world lacks disease-free water. That's a lot of people dying every day.

              You want to perpetuate the human race in the long term? Start studying science. Biotech, artificial intelligence, life extension science -- pick one.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–]Venkas 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Trial by fire of your own choosing. That right there is excellent advice. I chose something I thought was impossible for MYSELF to do, yet here I am in a tech school. Struggle against bad habits and learning more about who I am and what I am capable of. Do it for you and you alone.

                [–]-Quotidian 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                I've experienced that discontent before. It happens whenever I have too much free time and catch up on all the things I let slip. Once I have nothing to do…I get the feeling that I should be out pillaging. If there are any stories I have--not that I plan to have children for a long time yet--they center around standing up for myself, overcoming certain obstacles, and pulling off some crazy shit by the skin of my teeth. But those stories are amusing or entertaining, not inspiring…and barely respectable, in a few cases.

                You're right. We need to do more with ourselves. I think most of us need to build up to anything epic, like ice-climbing, but it can be done. Traveling somewhere alone is a great first step. Just like with lifting or approaching, you just need to keep moving forward.

                [–]OilyB 4 points5 points  (3 children)

                Our purpose imo, is not practical as much as it is more abstract. It has evolved into abstraction. We're not saving lives and killing mammals to protect our families, not building boats and houses with our own hands. Not fighting wars against intruders that endanger our villages. We can work and provide for our families, that's the same as building houses. We can develop peacetime, take it one step further. We can pursue nobility and all the virtues contained in it.

                Ours is maybe a spiritual journey, a spiritual mission. Building or developing integrity, truthfulness, being helpful, strength, frustration tolerance, presence of mind, wisdom, insight, knowledge. These are enough to keep a man busy for a lifetime. And throwing our children as far into the future as we can by making them capable people; well rounded adults, is as good a mission as any. (as opposed to just having them survive into adulthood by feeding them and bathing them).

                Any thoughts?

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                My personal issue with this is that I feel telling my grandchildren I had integrity, strength and stood up for what I believed is an incredibly low bar to set. Where does wisdom come from? Experience right? Just because I'm "better" than "most" people doesn't mean I led a life worth leading. Not being instructive here just thinking aloud as it pertains to me.

                [–]OilyB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                <Standing up for what I believed in.> This is in no way a low bar to set, it's more masculine than countless other men anf certainly countless women - taking into account that agreeability is often a curse with many women because that's exactly what keeps them from standing up for what they believe in.

                Of course, being able to say "I've saved 3 people from drowning" is more spectacular than "I've streamlined mr So&so's books for 20yrs". Maybe being able to tell your grandchildren about what you're good at - which can be anything constructive - is enough. Experience and being a sage old person doesn't have to be talked about - it proves itself. We may still disagree of course. No problem.

                [–]jx234 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                Whilst I agree this is a great post, I struggle with the idea that men need hardship in order to become men.

                Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the impression that many on this sub actually wish life was more difficult for the majority of the population, as it was during WW2 or the Great Depression.

                I think there's a tendency to romanticize hardship here. It's true, a lot of veterans would say that their experiences helped them become the men they are, but that's kind of a truism. It's taking a "no point crying over spilt milk" view. They would have preferred for there to not have been a world war, because the reality of wars, depressions etc, is not stoic men sitting round a fire, being morally serious and talking about how they'll get through this together. It's children screaming because they're literally starving, it's young naive teenage boys being unceremoniously slaughtered, it's men facing the shame of being unable to provide for themselves because of circumstances out of their control.

                So while it's true that maybe our lives are too easy these days (See Steven Pinker, 'Why Violence has Declined'), having a lot of beta men these days is a small price to pay. Sure, people should be encouraged to be ambitious, but if they choose to sit in front of the TV all day it's a shame, but better than being mindlessly slaughtered.

                [–]1oldredder 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                A life of peace is not a bad life. Your post, I say, is out of line. Choose adventure, choose improvement but don't act like only you know what it is.

                You don't. A shit-ton of your comments are garbage and this post... is not so good.

                We can't all be warrior adventurers. IF we were there'd be no society at all, no civilization, only mercenaries and bandits.

                This man you criticize is in fact doing a good thing just not what you want to do. You see but a small shot of time vs a life-time not yet passed for this father to raise his son.

                You need to learn humility and listen more, write less. You're out of line.

                [–]narazz 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                sadly just taking some night classes and getting anAS in art at 34 was an accomplishment for me. pretty much my life is a failure but i'm hoping maybe one day i can at least get good at art. :)

                btw the military sucks. i couldnt last a month in it. thankfully my knee gave out on me haha.

                [–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                bro, That you HAD the initiative AND followed through on it with the art classes Rocks!

                The ONLY true failure is "the failure to Try!" ALL and ANY 'self improvement' IS good.

                Hang in here mate, do your best to get the basics happening (gym/diet/knowledge) and in a year you'll be glad you did!

                [–]theHangedGod 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                This is beautifully written and the question you raise is one I've had to face throughout my life, so I'll say my piece.

                The patriarchy of my family is filled with conquerers. Directly decendend from vikings, my great grandfather homesteaded, broke the land, and broke broncos. My grandfather rebuilt his father's land after 12 children inherited equal shares. My father rose to fame in football, and later, in business. But, me, I was born a wounded child in an tamed land.

                Sports were always a struggle and all exploration is done. But all I ever wanted to be was greater than my father and a man who braves the unknown. I lack interest in anything else.

                So here I sit, on a computer, exploring whatever's new on the Internet. Wishing there was more unknown to voyage into. Working on a farm I'm destined to be given. But wanting to earn my own existence. A middle child of history.

                It's incredible how your eyes open when you find something that was hidden away from you.

                I'd heard stories of my viking ancestors being shroom heads, I'd heard Joe Rogan talk about psychedelics on his podcast, I'd even heard a few first hand stories from my musically inclined friend. But, I had no idea what spirituality was until I did it.

                For my generation, the war is spiritual. Religion is dying and I was in the wave that killed it. But, the reason religion started still exists, it only faded back into the unknown. I found my place to explore and it's entirely within my own perception.

                The psychedelic experience is a tradition in nearly every single culture to ever exist, same with religious traditions. I could speak on this, but I'll direct you to Terence McKenna, there is much more.

                It's what I was born to rediscover.

                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                I'm an EMT in my early 20's. I'm earning my fuckin stripes

                [–]causeandcorrelation 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Great post. Thanks for your contribution.

                [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                [deleted]

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I largely attribute the mass "awakening" of people to the neo-reactionary movement from that. It definitely counted though for your average guy, who had all his tools taken from him I think it was more crushing than a mere "trial".

                  We took your home and your wife left you! I don't personally feel builds men very well.

                  [–]Opanion 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  The Great War can't come soon enough.

                  [–]CptDefB 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  TL;DR: Lifting weights and making money, according to the new Metric of Manliness™ should score higher as they are more relevant and useful to the landscape we deal with on a daily basis. The criteria posited by the OP is outdated, and while serves as great supplement to "Manliness", shouldn't eclipse the true definition in our present environment; money and status. Also, the idea of "deserve to be called a man" is about as silly as, "I want a REAL man.", despite them both alluding to similar, but not the same.

                  This will probably be an unpopular opinion based on the general level of agreement in this thread. I'm going to disagree with you. As usual, I'll try to explain so we can come to understandings.

                  So, your metric for Manliness is outdated. I get it, trial by fire/combat/ordeal/whatever. Struggle shapes us, we lose/learn and try to create positive feedback loops if we want to Halo effect our way to victory. No disagreements.

                  The things you used to describe "manliness", don't work any more. Military service? Anyone aware of geopolitics should be dubious of their own gov/military (and many things learned from can be learned outside of). Travelling? Also no. A cultured man, travel alone does not make. Millions of people spend time traveling and learn fuck all. They spend some money, take some photos, update Facebook then their 2-6 weeks are over... "Omg, it was amaaazing!" Right, sure.

                  As we came out of the caves of prehistory and built ourselves up to post industrialization, money and status are pretty much the top two, especially in Western societies where the threat of violence is minimal and most of all human knowledge/experience is a Google search away. Most great-grandparents wouldn't know what the fuck I'm talking about, the world has changed that much. They will still understand status and resources, that has never changed.

                  What's the point?

                  "Manliness" is a male construct? Something like that. "What did you ever do to deserve being called a man?" I have a dick, so do you. End of story. This question alone sounds a lot like, "I want a REAL man, not a boy." Everyone's all, "Yeah yeah, I want to be a REAL man. My great-grandkids will make old tough guy memes out of me!" No, my friends, do not let the goal posts be moved.

                  Money. Status.

                  Ask yourself this: Would you prefer your great-grandparents had "cool stories" and were very interesting, or would you prefer they had status and wealth, to make the lives of their descendants (including you) way easier, during which they could also pass on said stories via wealthy/powerful personalities they've actually met and introductions to said people (for your parents perhaps, who should do the same for you in turn)?

                  So yeah, go travel, put yourself in difficult situations so that your brain will form new points of reference for your experiences. However, I would say, don't move Money & Status away from their top positions on your list of priorities, even if spinning plates isn't your thing. Surrogacy and single parenthood for a wealthy and successful man would probably be a pretty good life for the child in question... again, probably better than, "let me tell you this story for the 50th time". Lifting weights and making money, according to the new Metric of Manliness™ should score higher as they are more relevant and useful to the landscape we deal with on a daily basis.

                  You could go be all kinds of interesting... money/status/frame... that's all that matters. Sell drugs, reshape Wall St., makes about 0 difference as long as the main 3 (I know, it was 2 a moment ago) are upheld.

                  Example: Littlefinger from Game of Thrones. Money. Status. Frame. Doesn't need to be King, doesn't need to conquer on a battlefield... sure, oneitis for Stark but no matter, he made a life for himself. You could sub Littlefinger for any real world, strong business minded person... even if they're not an overt alpha personality, so long as they have the 3, they're "manly enough" just fine. An even better example would be Varys, who can't even fuck and is fatter than most guys here. Fictional, sure. In all of human history, try to tell me a man like Varys didn't exist (especially when the practice was so common as little as 1000 years ago in our 3-5 million years as a species).

                  [–]charlesomimri 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  “Hmm! Adventure. Hmmpf! Excitement. A Jedi craves not these things." Keep your commitments. That is the person who is always referred to as "the man". That is the person who shows up for war or adventure or dinner. You may find that what you consider "the truth" may change over time. Being consistent to your word will not.

                  [–]curiousdude 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  That fight club quote is stupid. Having a great war or great depression to be in is not a good thing. Take risks and try to do something great, but the idea that war or externally imposed hardship makes life meaningful is pure b.s. Just because there's some fantasy out there of being a millionaire doesn't mean you can't have a meaningful life some other way.

                  [–]masturbator9000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  Great post. I keep asking myself the same question recently. Especially the "Is that it?" part.

                  Not gonna lie, it's really depressing. As much as am willing to form myself into a man that is worthy of that title, I don't have a single clue where to start.

                  How does one become such a man nowadays? The only true challenges we know are health financial success, more or less. Considering those are the only things you can take with you into old age. "I banged a thousand sluts" will be worthless fifty years down the line.

                  [–]vintagegirlgame 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                  I know one of the most enlightening and character building experiences my boyfriend had was taking 13 months to travel solo around the world at age 19. He busted his ear drum surfing in Hawaii, he rock climbed all over New Zealand, he made a didgeridoo in Australia, he rode a dirt bike across Zanzibar, he studied with the Bushmen in South Africa, he dug the safari bus out of the dirt when the guides were useless... I never get tired or hearing his travel stories and I know it's the kind of tradition he will want to pass down to his sons. Specifically, making the journey alone was life changing.

                  The next commitment he wants to make is learning to sail and making an ocean crossing.

                  [–]Masonjarteadrinker2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I don't ever save anything, but I couldn't help but to save this right here.

                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  The answer is blowin' in the wind.

                  [–]RPmatrix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I suddenly became an orphan at 17yo and literally moved from the house I'd grown up in onto the streets

                  I had NO choice but to "man up" or be fucked over.

                  that was the start, 30+yrs ago, and I'm still working on it

                  [–]monzzter221 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  "That and a pair of testicles"

                  --the dude

                  [–]Autodidact-Sanchez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Thanks for posting. It reminds me of a section from Marcus Aurelius' "Meditations" that I wrote down in my diary (If you haven't read this book, HIGHLY recommended...I also highly recommend a diary):

                  At break of day, when you are reluctant to get up, have this thought ready in mind: 'I am getting up for a man's work. Do I still then resent it, if I am going out to do what I was born for, the purpose for which I was brought into the world? Or was I created to wrap myself in blankets and keep warm?' 'But this is more pleasant.' Were you then born for pleasure- all for feeling, not for action? Can you not see plants, birds, ants, spiders, bees all doing their own work, each helping in their own way to order the world? And then you do not want to do the work of a human being- you do not hurry to the demands of your own nature. 'But one needs rest too.' One does indeed: I agree. But nature has set limits to this too, just as it has to eating and drinking, and yet you go beyond these limits, beyond what you need. Not in your actions, though, not any longer: here you stay below your capability. The point is that you do not love yourself- otherwise you would love both your own nature and her purpose for you. Other men love their own pursuit and absorb themselves in its performance to the exclusion of bath and food: but you have less regard for your own nature than the smith has for his metal-work, the dancer for his dancing, the money-grubber for his money, the exhibitionist for his little moment of fame. Yet these people, when impassioned, give up food and sleep for the promotion of their pursuits: and you think social action less important, less worthy of effort?

                  [–]falafin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life. What will you tell your grandchildren - what will you have done?

                  That's what I am thinking. I've never really liked the traditional script that society dictates people, go to college, get a job, start a family and live happily every after. At the age of 18 (I'm 22now) I decided that since I am already on this sorry world, might as well have an interesting life. After first year of university, I hitchhiked 2k kilometers to Paris, with only a couple of euro, slept under Eiffel Tower for a couple of days and then hitchhiked back. I was scared to death, anxious but deep inside I knew that I have to do this. I always think this was the rite of passage for me, that's the moment when I finally found my balls and started living.

                  Now, having found TRP and reading stuff here, I really think I'm on the right path. I want to spend my 20s traveling, backpacking, hitchhiking or whatever. Maybe in my 30s I'll settle down, maybe not. One thing I am sure, I'm gonna see the world and do something interesting.

                  [–]cmycorps 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  This is TRP at its core, and for me was the most empowering realization I had- getting women and doing something great with life aren't separate things, they are both byproducts of living a life with no disconnect from our true masculine desires.

                  [–]Jimmy_Big_Nuts 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Sorry dude, speak for yourself on this one, you must have been lucky or had rich parents or something. Some of us can claim we achieved something against bad odds. Had a fight for life. It does make you a man, you're right. Men aren't born, they are made. Forged against adverse conditions. You aren't a man until you faced something alone so harrowing it removes your sense of innocence, and you have to find your balls to fight it and win.

                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I've been focusing on training myself to be able to Join the French foreign legion and do something with my life. Im tried of all this modern bullshit and IDGAF about trying to chase pussy, fuck em their nothing to me. TRP made me realize just how full of shit people are and now i have absolutely no doubts about leaving these people for good.

                  [–]LeGrandDiableBlanc 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  You have to earn the title every day by making the right choices over and over again.

                  [–]mkopec 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Ive built things with my hands, like any real man does. I have thought myself that which I dont know, like a real man does.

                  And now Im passing these skills, knowledge, wisdom down to my two sons, like a real man does.

                  I dont think you have to fight in wars and face death to become a man. I think there is plenty of battles men go through in their lives to help shape them. And its how you deal with these battles and how you withstand the pain of life how you end up in the end.

                  [–]NidStyles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I served in the military. Not sure what you guys are bitching about...

                  [–]Nazrath2112 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  What have I endured? (The Narn's in the video are in the anger phase, G'kar = GLO)

                  • Abused as a child
                  • Watched mother abused by step dad
                  • Step dad committed suicide in our house
                  • Finished HS
                  • Joined the Army
                  • Served and discharged with honor
                  • Graduated from a trade school
                  • Got a job at a video game company
                  • Started as a temp, worked my way up to management
                  • Never married, no kids
                  • Promised my grandpa on his deathbed I would look after his wife after he passed away
                  • Spend 2.5 years taking care of my grandma

                  In my life I have endured much more than the average person and It has given me a strength that not many others have. The rest has yet to be written.

                  [–]leemanfor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  fuck man...

                  I don't know what to say.

                  [–]Sir_Shitlord_focker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  "You should always have been well dressed and care about your appearance"

                  I don't give two shits about my appearance, I have two styles, the suit (work) and the blue jeans (levis 501) with white t-shit, hoodie optional depending on weather.

                  In fact I find men who spend too much time on appearance to be distinctly effeminate and usually of weak character.

                  [–]UnkleTBag 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Ramble alert, these thoughts are not organized. I went to a lecture featuring architect Bryan McKay Lyons (something like that). One of the things he showed was a picture of two brothers working, one was handing a wrench to the other, but the brothers' positions within the photo bore a resemblance to that renaissance painting where God is reaching down to touch Adam's finger. That image has stuck with me ever since, and is first in line if I ever decide to get a tattoo. We don't keep our identity alive just by replicating genes, we do it by teaching our offspring the various ways we have mastered making nature our bitch. I come from amateur airplane builders, so I developed a wide range of skills as a kid, but since my dad didn't master any particular area (welding, woodworking, etc) I have only basic experience in these areas. It is my job to develop these further so that my offspring has better genes and better software than me. That wrench being passed is the sum total of the electrical signals in my brain. THAT is earning manhood. That wrench gets better and better until I die. It will never be perfect, but the prioritization of developing that wrench is what I consider the prerequisite for earning manhood. There is no event that you go through that makes you a man, since then you could just coast and still be technically a man. You must earn manhood every day. Some days you don't, but you get to try again the next day.

                  I think this is where I differ from many redpillers. There is a lot on here that is basically glorified hedonism. That is not using the full human capacity. To me, red pill is becoming the God in that renaissance painting and becoming worthy of handing that wrench.

                  [–]bombilla42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  What did I do? I pay my fucking bills - ON TIME, EVERY TIME!

                  [–]ogrethebuffoon 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                  I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life.

                  These aren't what's missing. What's missing is a mission and a higher purpose that guides your daily actions and a set of values that you adhere to which brings fulfillment. It's progress towards a vision of the greatest version of yourself that brings happiness.

                  I will tell my grandchildren, if I have any, that I helped hundreds and thousands of people overcome their fears, create better lives for themselves faster than they thought possible, impact the world through awesome businesses, and transform into who they really wanted to be. That's what I do for people as a coach for entrepreneurs. I will have hundreds of great stories about the people's lives that changed as a result of working with me. These are better stories to tell than ones about when I climbed a mountain or whatever which I may do anyway.

                  If you don't have a career and a calling that fills you up like that, I suggest you get one. It doesn't have to be coaching, but it needs to have higher meaning and purpose for you. If you're just working for money and living for pussy, you've not really swallowed the pill that matters most.

                  It's not feats of physical prowess or number of hotties banged that makes a man, it's the willingness to do what's needed in the world and to act as though you had unlimited responsibility for the well-being of others.

                  In fact, stop thinking of yourself as a man so much. It's a limited identity. See yourself as a being with enormous value to create and incredible love to share.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  This was a great response, shame it's all the way down here. More than a few people have missed the point that the submission was not instructive; just a question for one's own personal investigation and conclusion.

                  [–]ogrethebuffoon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Thanks, it's a great post. I think more important than asking yourself "what will I do?" is "who will I be?"

                  [–]S74RK 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  This is why I am committed to the path of entrepreneurship in my professional life.

                  I've already failed a few times since finishing college, learning valuable lessons along the way: how to hold and align a team together, how to know if a technology is ready to be commercialized, how to prep for investor meetings on no sleep.

                  Yes, I've been flat broke a few times. In fact after failing at my last company, I'm now recovering financially at a job that definitely pays less than my colleagues who went into i-banking or goog/face/soft or consulting. They're busy posting their material possessions on facebook, or getting engaged. I'm busy planning my next mission. You just spent 5K on a new deck at your wife's insistence? That's like 6 months of runway to chase your dreams, man.

                  Truthfully, I do it for the journey itself. There's no feeling in the world like being "switched on" for 12+ hours a day because you're so motivated in what you do. And since nobody will tell you how to run a business, you're always forced to think about what to do next. Forced to respond in real-time to a changing marketplace. No being passive and waiting for direction from others, because that's a surefire way to fail.

                  In the same way that being fed bluepill lies leads man to act in unnatural ways, I believe that not having autonomy, control, and responsibility of one's future does the same. It certainly doesn't cause you to grow and gain wisdom worthy of passing down. Would you rather have the grandfather that taught you about corporate culture, playing office politics, pleasing the boss, or would you want the grandfather who was a serial entrepreneur, had to conduct business in multiple countries with an adventure on every trip, was homeless while simultaneously partying with millionaires, and learned how to lead people to glory? I know which one I had, and which one I intend to be.

                  You weren't meant to have a boss. And if you're in North America, you live in a society where homeless people are literally overweight. You're not going to die if you try something and fail. What are you missing out on? Promotions? Growing up, I never understood the difference between having a 50K salary, 100K, 150K, or even 200K from a job you don't truly want. It's just a bigger house and more stuff. How many adventures happen inside your house? Probably not a lot, unless you're Hugh Hefner. And I'm pretty sure he didn't get to where he is by letting others direct him. In fact:

                  Working as a copywriter for Esquire, he left in January 1952 after being denied a $5 raise. In 1953, he mortgaged his furniture, generating a bank loan of $600, and raised $8,000 from 45 investors, including $1,000 from his mother to launch Playboy, which was initially going to be called Stag Party. The undated first issue, published in December 1953, featured Marilyn Monroe from her 1949 nude calendar shoot and sold over 50,000 copies.

                  In closing, I would strongly urge Red Pill men to consider entrepreneurship as a path in life. The world needs more of them anyways. As an added bonus, chicks can't get enough hearing about my adventures so far (and I'm not even a success yet). As a final note, I know many of you are gainfully employed already, actually killing it in your jobs, and aren't desperately in need of jumping ship to do something more fulfilling. But I also know that many more of you are not. And I'd wager that after some time, you might not be either. So know that a more fulfilling path does exist, and it may be your greatest opportunity to share your value with the world.

                  [–]Endorsed ContributorAFPJ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life.

                  What makes you think you were meant to? Danger and difficulty is being eradicated by technology. On the battlefield, even with all the NATO restrictions & treaties and shit, less and less people dying from other people - they're dying to technology. The only difference between civilian "soul" death and death in war from technology is how fast it happens.

                  warriors by birth, years of brutal exertion, bravery and commitment was the price

                  You see, before, we've had no choice but to fight, to labor, to undertake danger. If we did not, our town, society or village would fall. Our hind-brains understood this and forced us to proceed after having seen what happens to those who didn't make the same choice (excommunicated, shamed or outright killed. Deserting wasn't kindly looked upon)

                  Now, we have a choice. For the first time, we don't really HAVE to do those things - this is the result. Technological marvels have ripped our hearts out of the cozy illusion of choice, into the horrors of really having them.

                  We seek to defend or to gain. In an increasingly complex culture with a dizzying amount of abstraction to stop most via analysis paralysis, what to defend or seek to gain is more abstracted than ever. The people you see today result from abundance complacency as much as the complexity of society exceeding the average individual's mental capacity.

                  [–]Hennez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  What will I tell my grandchildren? I lifted weights day to day and earned money, I partied and fucked girls? I was a wealthy ladies man? Is that it? By my own standards I don't deserve to raise children and settle down if that's my story to date.

                  While I agree on the importance of asking oneself these questions I don't on the way they're phrased: "What would I tell my grandchildren?". The message is solid and I think the correct way to be asked should be "What would I tell MYSELF 30 years from now when I look back and critically analyze how MY LIFE was?".

                  Other than that I think you hit the point spot-on. This society now (from 50 or a bit more years back) is very different than what nature imposed on us. We no longer need to "survive" (facing great natural hardships), technology has made that almost irrelevant in day to day life and society has changed in order to account for that. The thing is: humans have not changed (or evolved) to account for that fact. Hence why a lot seems to be missing from our lives.

                  Nevertheless the fact you mention that there's no point of transition that has to be walked through in order to be considered a man is very real. Something is lacking in that sense. 2 of my 3 all-life-long best(male)friends have children now. One just a year after marrying and he cannot get by without help from his wife's family and the other just a year after reencountering a girl from our university (with a very misterious past) and he surely won't be able to provide for the three of them.

                  One (the latter) plays League of Legends like there's no tomorrow when he's not on his work schedule. The other doesn't really have almost time to play but when he can he does so.

                  I cannot but agree with the points made on this post.

                  [–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  In the upvoting fervor, remember "what have you done to deserve being called a man" is judged by your standards and no one else's. Hiking the Appalachian Trail may be one mans crowning achievement and another man's waste of a summer and they're both right

                  [–]old_man_tom3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  A bar fight? mate, that's blue pill behaviour; means you can't control yourself however your general point has merit. Men are becoming Nietzche's last men, not for want of things to overcome and achieve but because of the inability to imagine what these things are.

                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  "Our generation feel they should be rewarded for just for tidying their room or leaving the house, turning off the video games or going for a walk... Achievement unlocked - go back to sleep."

                  That was deep. I notice many of my friends do not have hobbies, they don't really do anything. Even their careers (or lack thereof) are paltry and non-interesting. I'm not sure we should care so much about what we tell our grandchildren we have done, however. I think if partying and earning money is all some men want out of their lives then good on them but I think that's a life unfulfilled.

                  I'm not sure really where I'm going with this post, but maybe I'd like to point out that our generation is so sad with respect to what is mentioned in this post that being a top 10% man isn't difficult.

                  The truth is:

                  You should have always been in shape

                  You should always have been well dressed and care about your appearance

                  You should have always been able to speak to the blonde in the coffee shop

                  Just these things alone, most men do not accomplish. As sad as it is, many men have never been complimented by an attractive woman (that isn't a relative/friend of their mother's). Many men have never gotten a woman's number while grocery shopping. Many men have never been in shape after they finished high school football.

                  Gentlemen, I'm not trying to say that the bar is so low such that anybody can be Top 10%. I'm trying to say that many men will never have it in them to make even the slight improvements necessary to be Top 10%. If you follow what is preached here and make a good faith effort to improve, anyone* could become a Top 10% man, given the competition.

                  *unless you were born hideous/mentally or physically handicapped

                  [–]tyson2444 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  This truly speaks to me, I've always wanted to enter the medical field for this reason. (not saying I plan to cure anything or become a neurosurgeon, but i'm sure whoever cured polio had something to say to his grandchildren)

                  [–]breakingmad1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  You realise fight club is a parody of anarchy and is mocking that train of thought?

                  [–]red_gerb 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                  The question is Beta.

                  I don't have to DO anything to BE a man. I don't need validation.

                  I AM a man. therefore I-AM. it begins within, gents.

                  [–]Eloni 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Yep. Was gonna answer OP with "born XY".

                  [–]BlindNowhereMan 1 point2 points  (4 children)

                  This post is idiotic. The OP has no idea what the joys of Fatherhood bring. Truth is of you done have kids the odds of anyone remembering you 5 years after you dead is close to nil. I generally agree with TRP but if there is one thing I hate about TRP is this notion of self gratification above all else. Because so many fathers choose to so nothing but play videos games doesn't make that the fatherhood gold standard.

                  There is so much you can do as a father, with you kid that has tremendous meaning..

                  So OP let me ask you, what was your great right of passage? You are a warrior you say, did you going the armed forced in an effort to better this world? If you are like most here, you talk of being a warior, but won't actually fight to defend anything, as that conflicts with your selfish values.

                  You are full of crap..

                  Ps: if you want to be selfish, that's fine, but don't go around flouting your supiriority.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                  Glad to have impacted on you, even if it went a little off course.

                  The point of the submission is not one of aloof condescension, it is for you to question yourself and see what answers you come up with as a matter of personal investigation. I have had rites of passage - but they're irrelevant to you. It harkens to the idea that there is a list somewhere of things you have to do in order to be a man - which is a falsehood.

                  I never said I was a warrior, I said that was the purpose to which we were born, the question is now that we are bereft of this purpose what then do we have that can fill the gap?

                  won't actually fight to defend anything

                  Are we still talking about me? How do you know that?

                  Ps: if you want to be selfish, that's fine, but don't go around flouting your supiriority.

                  You've misunderstood the submission.

                  [–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                  You've misunderstood the submission.

                  My brother, who knows I don't speak Chinese, once said to me "RPM, If I were to talk to you in Chinese and You didn't understand me, who's fault would that be?"

                  Clearly, it would be His "fault" that I didn't understand him, (as I do not speak Chinese and IF he chose to speak to me in it, whilst knowing this)

                  You have made many good points in your posts across TRP /u/MHackware, but, IMHO, this isn't one of them.

                  If this guy "misunderstood the submission" do you even consider the possibility it was a poorly worded post in the first place OR will you continue to insist you "are Right"?

                  edit: some clarification (the words in parentheses)

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  Clearly, it would be His "fault" that I didn't understand him!

                  False equivalence, what value is there in approaching a Chinese man if you cannot speak to him. The fault would be your own.

                  You have made many good points in your posts across TRP /u/MHackware[1] , but, IMHO, this isn't one of them.

                  I am more than comfortable with that.

                  If this guy "misunderstood the submission" do you even consider the possibility it was a poorly worded post in the first place OR will you continue to insist you "are Right"?

                  No I did not consider that, that is an entirely novel idea - you should make a submission about how sometimes questioning whether you are, in fact; communicating poorly is a good idea. /s

                  At any rate I made a statement that he has misunderstood the submission; there contains no prejudice as to how that fact came about. In this specific instance you, like the guy above him, are reading things that are not there and responding to that instead.

                  [–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  mate, re-read my post and try again, as it's clear you missed a very relevant and important point as to whom I was speaking with, as I never said anything about "Chinese men" (unless you weren't aware I am not Chinese and yet assumed both my brother and I am! lol)

                  Your sarcasm is what it is, a demonstration of "the poorest form of wit" OR were you trying to patronize me?

                  If so, you failed.

                  In this specific instance you, like the guy above him, are reading things that are not there and responding to that instead.

                  Which is exactly what I'm claiming, you did!

                  Care to elaborate upon this?

                  [–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                  One of the reasons why religion is so useful is because it provides a series of milestones complete with self-study, reflection (prayer, meditation), and public ritual. Some people today think they don't need any religion, and that they are so much smarter and better than people who believe in silly little fairy tales. You aren't better or smarter than anyone. People raised sans religion just make some other thing their god--usually money. Without ritualized milestones they don't appreciate growing older and wiser, and they don't receive the joy of helping younger people grow and pass through the same milestones.

                  Becoming a cynical disbeliever was supposed to be the last step, when you realize that it was more about the process, the story that you believed in. Everything is backward and flipped upside down today, with people starting out as cynical non-believers, and then clutching at straws in a blind search for meaning and a belief-system. It's all fucked.

                  [–]1oldredder 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                  No. Religion literally is the bluest of blue pills programming a system of lies into children to make them slaves. Those slaves will turn easily into an army, and have in the past, serving a top-level master.

                  Religion is poison.

                  Yes, the atheists are much smarter and provably so.

                  and then clutching at straws in a blind search for meaning and a belief-system.

                  Not at all for even one second.

                  [–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

                  Red and Blue pills don't translate to "Whatever I like and dislike." Blue is the illusion, the false reality. Red is the hard truth. The truth is that religion is a useful tool and to ignore it is foolish.

                  Atheism itself is just another cloak of superiority, a way for irrational apes to gain status and look down at other apes as inferior.

                  The notion that humans don't need meaning sounds very much like cultural marxism to me, right along with "gender is a social construct" and "all whites benefit from systemic racism."

                  One of the best recruiting grounds for ISIS is in the UK. Where there is a moral or spiritual void, something will rush in to fill that space. That something is now radical Islam.

                  Which atheist is smarter, the one who grows old and childless, or the one who converts to radical Islam?

                  Red pill men have used religion for thousands of years to control the masses. It is a very useful tool. To decide that men no longer need this tool, that it is useless because it is a fiction, is truly the height of stupidity and hubris.

                  [–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  The truth is that religion is a useful tool and to ignore it is foolish.

                  That is not the truth.

                  The actual truth is that religion is a tool to poison slaves to fight each other to death for their slave-masters. Everything else is incidental to keeping them poor and obedient, ignorant and unquestioning.

                  Which atheist is smarter, the one who grows old and childless, or the one who converts to radical Islam?

                  Both are nonsense: the atheist who has 3 children he can afford and refuses all religion is the winner.

                  [–]TheRealMouseRat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I've been chased by a bear, chased by a moose, done construction in the mountains, sailed >12 hours competitions in a tiny boat (while constantly hauling water out of the boat to avoid it sinking), benchpressed 220 punds (100kilos), saved people from suicide. I think I have done some "manly" things, and I keep learning and experiencing new things all the time.

                  But I can always be better. My experience is that when going trips with the guys is a good way of challenging yourself and seeing new things.

                  [–]OilyB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I took a detour from a safe banking job to pursue my dream and I'm living it, been living it for 10 years now.

                  [–]bowie747 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  I've wondered through Berlin on acid from midnight to 9am in the snow with a girl I met at a bar, that's about my gnarliest story. On a serious note though, I completely agree that we have no cause. I'm fit, smart, mature, strong, successful enough with women and am financially stable so there's no problems there and yet I remain unsatisfied. There's a very real need to feel a part of something, but what? My current answer to that problem is to pour my soul into my work, I'm in medical research so by making that my life's ambition I'm hoping to be able to improve the lives of some people, and to impart some sort of purely positive impact on the world. I don't know if this will be enough but its what I'm going with for the foreseeable future.

                  [–]RPmatrix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  My current answer to that problem is to pour my soul into my work, I'm in medical research so by making that my life's ambition I'm hoping to be able to improve the lives of some people, and to impart some sort of purely positive impact on the world. I don't know if this will be enough but its what I'm going with for the foreseeable future.

                  Great stuff, I wish you all the best and much success

                  I get a LOT from helping people who need it, just becoz I can ... not "for something" in return, 'quid pro quo' style - In fact passionately I dislike people who play 'tit for tat' games!

                  [–]Reanimate_87 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Blaming is always easier and can postpone pain - I sympathize the word postpone, it's a form of giving away power by saying that circumstances are responsible. Environment is something that has a big impact, notice how successful people are way more in their own reality? That's a choice really, having boundries is like a country with borders; your are your own customs while trading/sharing ideas, emotions and recources.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I'd say even better, if someone else tells your story.

                  But apart from romantics, it is your shortcoming, your mistakes and failings not creating the life you wanted to lead. Sure we do not have a definitive goal or place, but who has? Life is meaningless, all is vanity.

                  This is why you should do whatever the fuck you want and not give a shit. Go forth and claim your victory over those dreams, and if not, fail with the force of a thousand comets colliding.

                  Realise you cannot have everything, and seek what you really wish for. What helped me, personally is making an "Achievement List", not for recognition, not for others, but for my own sake. These are goals, skills to achieve, things to do, stuff to get. Write them down, define them, fight for them. That is all.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I want to dismantle common belief systems and receive death threats and honors.

                  [–]KurrKurr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Hope a little lighthearted response is ok:

                  I work with data and use Wolfram|Alpha sometimes, so I thought I might ask the great Wolfram brain:
                  http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?...

                  Well, I don't think it knows either...

                  [–]WolfofRainbows 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I just always kept my word and didn't let people down. As great as that is, the way I knew I was becoming a man was when I would get constant firm hardshakes from war veterans and nods.

                  [–]JetteAuLoinTRP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Now, what rite of passage would you set in place in our modern society ? Ideas ?

                  [–]TheJollySatan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  4 years military service, it isn't enough either, have to keep pushing boundaries.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  For me, its not about being called a man. I don't need anybody to validate me because I know who I am. I know I'm a man. I've overcome a lot of adversity - and I'm sure many of you have overcome a lot too. I didnt just have issues with women, I also had issues getting respect from other men. Now Ive fixed both. With time, I've become wiser and I have a better idea of what's really important. I wanted a career when I was younger. Then I just wanted a job. As long as I can pay for what I need, I'm good. That's less stress for me. And I don't feel the burden of having to impress women into sleeping with me - I can get it when I want. That's a peace of mind I'm glad I have.

                  [–]Polaris382 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Dude, this is something Ive thought about quite a bit myself. Im 31...and I still just dont really feel like an adult. The closest thing to a R'ites of passage" for me would have probably been the Navy...and while it sucked it was hardly a significant "rite of passage" type event.

                  [–]Merica911 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  It doesn't make him more of a man because his wife forgot to take her birth control pills. She was probably off it from some time because they probably haven't been fucking. They're tons of warriors out there that doesn't have kids. Also, there's tons of spineless boys out there with kids. It really boils down, if everything was together to get a girl pregnant.

                  A male is what you are, a man is what you become. Not ever male is a man. Getting a chick pregnant is like breathing air, easy as Apple pie. Now it's what happens the 18 years after that's going to define him.

                  [–]Stythe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Accurate. Most of us coast through life with little trouble, surrounded by safety nets of family and friends telling us we're perfect and to never change.

                  I've spent almost a decade looking for what I was missing, only to come to the conclusion that it was lack of accomplishment. It's no wonder people turn to drugs, become elitist assholes in their cliques or sit in misery. Most people don't even appreciate a hard days work. They lack the understanding of accomplishment it brings.

                  I genuinely believe this culture of depression, or the therapy culture we live in in the west stems from this and, sadly, with no real comparison to force people to understand these deeper truths, we're hooking up with our ego's way too much.

                  I just hope neuroscience can show us what the brain needs and we can manufacture our own growthspurts in our lives and create a great world. Look unlikely right now, but maybe one day.

                  [–]ShanksNes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I disagree with some parts and agree with others.

                  You are entitled to be a man, cause you have a dick and two balls below them. If we here at red pill start preaching others to look up to other people's standards and expectations, then what's the difference between us and the feminine imperative. Part of being a man is to make up your own mind. I don't need to be a good grandfather, a good father or anything. Let me make myself happy and content and then i'll start thinking about others. I make my own rules and have my own goals to achieve. Whether that is being a great grandfather of proud kids or a single conqueror of mountain peaks or a solitary mathematician trying to solve the Riemann's hypothesis is entirely my decision.

                  However asking questions like what our grandchildren will think of us, or even, what we would think about ourselves when we die is a great way of clearing all clutter and doing away with all bullshit in life. I highly recommend it. But make sure to ask your own question, for everybody is different.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  what will you have done?

                  You should be asking yourself this every day. Self improvement is key.

                  [–]king-schultz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  This, to me, is what TRP should be about. I believe in TRP, but I hate the constant focus on trying to get over on "bitches". Most of the time TRP seems to be targeted towards teenagers trying out PUA bullshit, or stupid FR's of how the OP is bragging about being so "Alpha".

                  [–]bobjoe177 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I think that this example applies moreso to urban centres than rural areas (I realize that most people live in some kind of urban sprawl). There are still pockets of masculinity alive and well in less densely populated areas. I'm gonna tell my kids how I planted over a million trees by hand over the course of a decade.

                  [–]mfigueiredo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Although nice pats on the back, the top comments don't answer the question.

                  [–]Philhelm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I was deployed to Iraq in 2003. I don't think that makes one a man or an alpha, but I noticed that people seemed to view me differently afterward. One of my friends, a former history teacher, confided that he was kind of jealous that he wasn't a veteran. I've also had some guys come up to me and another friend with whom I was deployed and debase themselves by stating that they would be too scared to go over there. My wife is proud of my veteran status whereas I view it indifferently; it wasn't as though I did anything heroic.

                  I never fired a shot, and was transferred to a bridging company of all things (I was a combat engineer by MOS), but I guess I can say that I had experiences that most young men will never have, and perhaps that gives me an edge, or at the very least makes others think that I have an edge, which can be useful.

                  [–]the_red_scimitar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  First off, a healthy contingency here (perhaps a majority, I don't know) are not interested in marriage, or having children, and won't. So the entire assumption is based first on that one will have grandchildren. This is a perfectly solid, red-pill choice.

                  There are many types of legacies one can have. As OP pointed out, progeny is one. But really, I think the better question than "what will you tell your grandchildren" is this: What reason will people have to talk about you when you are gone? That can be "good" or "bad" reasons, but where I agree with OP is that you should have accomplishments that are worthy to be told.

                  [–]themindiseverything0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Wonderful points (and form).

                  IMO hardship does not equal manhood. As in, running from a bear or climbing mount everest only matters if it matters to you. IOWords, being a man is a matter of self-respect. We have no Agoge like the Spartans did nor do we have a collective religious ritualization (bahmitzvah) BUT we do have modern challenges of living in a society that seeks to repress us and encourage mediocrity. As long as we have the clarity to define our goals and pursue them with courage (not caring what others think), I think we all have our own rights of passage.

                  I don't think the goal should be to impress our kids but to impress ourselves. Who knows what the world will be like when they come into it and who knows if we will even be alive to raise them. The idea is to Not have kids until we feel like we are worthy enough, as personal as that may be. Again, great post.

                  [–]DJVendetta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I'm honest and I stick to my principles.

                  Don't even fuckin' try to bend me in half for anything, I'm made out of Dwayne Johnson.

                  [–]kragshot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Those are damn good questions to ask. Personally, it's a good thing that I have good answers to those questions, but it is only because my father himself, set things into my character and mind that made me want to seek out challenges and pursue my own greatness.

                  The good thing for everyone else here is that there are still mountains to climb, so to speak. There are still challenges that even the coddled generations of the present can aspire to.

                  And of all of these challenges, there is one that is among the most worthy; seek to become a man worthy of admiration by those men who have come before you and who stand by your side. Take the accomplishments of your fathers (literal or figurative) and build upon them to leave your own mark on the world. Do not be afraid to accompany your friends and go on that "big adventure." Take that road trip with your grand-dad or your running buddies and build your own legend.

                  Only the bold and the brave can go out and build a monument to themselves.

                  In the words of the British Special Air Service:

                  "(He) who dares, wins."

                  [–]Dylan_Tnga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I have two kids, and more than enough stories to tell them when they get older because I DIDN'T stay with their mother and allow her to ruin my talents, passions, and friendships.... and trust me she tried.

                  The hardest thing was walking away from that, starting my life from scratch while paying 35% of my income to child support... I had nothing man, no furniture no TV... nothing but the clothes on my back and my keyboard.

                  Since then I've built and maintianed many positive experiences, I'm a passionate musician, I've been promoted to a high level job in credit card processing (which never would have happened if I didn't swallow the RP years ago and learn what it takes to be Alpha as fuck in the busienss environment and demand the respect I deserve) I also love physical activity, not a pro but I do many activities... and I get my kids to join in as well in things like soccer, baseball, etc.

                  I spend maybe 10% of the time I spend seeing my kids playing video games with them and 90% of it outdoors, or if it's a shitty day... reading with them.

                  I can say without a doubt that this would not be my life right now had I stayed BP and let my ex-wife complete her ritual of sucking out my soul, destroying all my passions and friendships, etc. Glad to be free, and so grateful to be a father to two wonderful boys.

                  [–]ChadThundercockII 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I ask myself this as much as the community here and find myself lacking. I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life.

                  Do I smell a bucket list before my forties ?

                  Also, once you get a fit body and good money, everything else is possible.

                  [–]pedler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  This is what i keep saying, but peopl who havent experienced it dont understand it.

                  Stop livig in excess, stop buying a new tv and gaming computer or replacing your automobile and develop yourwelf personally. There was a post about going to india for 3 months. Fuck, go to russia for a few months. Go to africa and try not to die. It sounds like imagination but hese places are real, and the reality is most barriers to doig these things are mental. Excuses like....oh but i might get sick, or i might get kidnapped....yeah you might but you also might not!

                  [–]capt-next-a-hoe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Wow! Thanks for this writeup.

                  I really need to rethink my priorities now.

                  [–]TheSliceman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Ive been through more shit than you can imagine.

                  Lowest lows and highest highs. But really none of that matters. The only thing that matters is where you are at RIGHT NOW.

                  [–]HDRed 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  I could point to my military service, me being a father of two and being an active part of there lives while being the sole breadwinner for the family, or my continued effort to be a good leader in the home and community but none of these feel right. I don't think there is a single thing that I can do that make me feel that I deserve being called a man, but it is the quest to be recognized as a good man, a worthy man that fulfills me.

                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  it is the quest to be...

                  “What you get by achieving your goals is not as important as what you become by achieving your goals.”

                  I liked your response a lot.

                  [–]capt_behindsight 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I think the most important thing to tell your grandchildren is your legacy; what did you leave on this earth different than anyone? Did you write an award winning novel? Design a drug for treating MS? Restore vintage cars?

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I've been thinking similar thoughts lately. The other day at the gym, I was constantly plagued by the one question: "what have I built lately?"

                  In the past year, I've paid off all my debts, had laser surgery to fix my eyes, and paid off my car. All this is less than a year, and in all the years prior I've never been so productive. (This is largely in thanks to the Red Pill.)

                  However, I constantly am reminded that I am not satisfied in the back of my mind. I look at what I've done so far and consistently ask myself if that is the depth of my ambition, if that's the best I can do. And time and again, I internally scream that no, I can do even better.

                  I'm gonna be 24 in six months. I can truly say 23 has been a big year thus far, but I look forward to what I'm going to accomplish by that point, and beyond.

                  [–]VikingOverlorde 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  What will I tell my grandchildren? I lifted weights day to day and earned money, I partied and fucked girls? I was a wealthy ladies man? Is that it? By my own standards I don't deserve to raise children and settle down if that's my story to date.

                  I agree with a lot of things you say..but while you look down on them, your friends having kids now will probably have grandchildren while they are still a reasonable age. If you wait longer to do a bunch of cool shit before you have kids, you may end up too old for your grandkids to remember you.

                  [–]moose_war 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  One of the biggest things I struggled with and still struggle with red pill wise is this idea that I will never be young again. let me explain.

                  Without getting too personal, from my teenage years until the end of college, i was focused on my passion. Let's just say my passion is not one that inherently makes money (though a lucky few do) and that I was doing it to do it- all or nothing.

                  But sometime in my last weeks of college, I realized something as I worked on a passion project. I had made no real friends in college, and by all accounts, I was still a social loser. A loner. I had actually had very little interest in my college years about running game and getting better with women, because I was genuinely happy to just jerk off. Because I lived for my passion, I really did.

                  But when this hit me at the end of college, I was 22 or 23 and I freaked out. I said "Oh my god, I only have one youth and I'm WASTING it by not trying to fuck every slut I can!" After that I lost all interest in my passion. It just died almost instantly and I became obsessed with living a "normal life". See, all of my peers and friends came from richer families, and so they all traveled, went to good schools, made great connections and friends and I didn't. I started isolating myself more because the more I thought about this, the more depressed I got. I started becoming obsessed with shallow shit like maximizing my looks, which is obviously a good thing- but I took it to an OCD level, staring at the mirror for long periods, working out just to look better, trying out really bad game at parties and trying to force a dark triad character when in reality, I was passing up tons of cute shy girls who weren't into that. But I had no way to gauge social interactions, and so I sunk deeper into depression for a while.

                  But after all this stuff I have been through, the forgotten years, the getting in shape, the improving my game- none of it matters in comparison to my original passion, which I regret losing focus on. It's still there in bits and pieces. I am still young. But...it's harder to get back into it. Because every time I try to buckle down, I think about how my precious youth is slipping away. I'm thinking every day closer to 30 is a chance for me to make money or game women and I have to do it all, I have to travel and act like a drunken idiot while it's still acceptable...before I become the 38 year old "creepy" guy trying to reclaim his lost youth.

                  But another, wiser part of me realizes this is all stupid bullshit. Life is one continuous line, and I should be focusing on my work, my passions. Because when I am 38, which will be more important? Living a unique, accomplished life where I at least reached for my dreams, or being a 38 year old guy who "fucked some hot chicks back in the day!"

                  At the end of the day, I think we have to remember fucking cute chicks is really not a big deal and no one will remember us in history for being a player.

                  [–]scallhero 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  While I agree with your sentiment, it is my personal belief that we should be wary of idealization. Climbing a glacial wall doesn't make you a man; what makes you a man is the character required to climb that wall. I know it is paradoxical to make objective claims in a subjective world of different minds, but I think that you could just as effectively be a man by wishing to be a great father to your children.

                  [–]Hennez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I see your point. The only flaw I see is the following (in a very positive way I point this out): only wishing without achieving is called "wishful thinking".

                  You must have the capacity to think in a way that makes transitioning from a boy to a man and you must accomplish the things you set out to do in order to really grasp the reality of being a man.

                  Thoughts without actions are almost always a waste of effort. Take science as an example of this: theories must be checked for them to be fully accepted.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  Strength, Courage, Mastery and Honour - The Way of Men

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  More people should read that.

                  [–]should_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Wars are rich people's games, and the more people that are realizing this, the less of a rite of passage that war or its cousins seem like. I think the new frontier is the inner landscape, as cliche and blue pill as that might sound. In terms of reaching family elder status, you can be the cool uncle/dad/granddad if you want, and if you do RP enough you will probably fall in line with that. But in our daily 'battles' in the office, at school, in the bedroom, the ones that endure and the ones that don't are differentiated by having a differing intensity of an inner spark or light that we're just beginning to tap into with meditation, eating right, sleeping right, and even working out. There are very few but memorable individuals who can look at you and you realize that they've activated parts of themselves that most people never access. It takes strength of will to attain and hardship to want it. It's alpha without the bells and whistles: low cortisol, discipline, positive emotion, charisma when necessary, centeredness, stillness.

                  [–]Transmigratory 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Obviously the following doesn't talk about being a man in the biological/literal sense.

                  Personally I ignore anyone who calls me a man (or anything else).

                  I'm a man when I consider myself a man. As far as I'm concerned, from everyone else it is just lip service. The objective view of what makes a "man" is up to each person's subjective opinions. People who adore you/need you will readily call you a man, whereas people who despise you will readily try to say you're not a man.

                  Tbh, if you need someone/people to let you know you're a man... you're not really a man.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  This is something that the Unabomber mentioned in his manifesto. I forget the terminology he used, but it had to do with the huge divide between necessary actions (hunting, for instance), and unnecessary actions like discovering biology for the hell of it.

                  We will never be actualized unless we actively go back to those primitive roots. But going back to those roots will make us learn why the hell we created medicine and society in the first place. Shit was hard, but now shit's too easy.

                  [–]Anletifer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Nobodies stopping you man, go travel see the fucking world. I have a 50 or 60 year old Uncle who just climbed a mountain in Africa. Go to the nearest bar and start a fight if that'll make you happy. You make it sound like in the past these things were commonly done, you can do them just as easily now if you stop making fucking excuses.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  What will you tell your grandchildren - what will you have done?

                  Made you. You ungrateful little shit. Now get off my lap.

                  [–]Kalepsis 0 points1 point  (10 children)

                  Well, Sonny, back in my day we joined the Marines, went to Iraq, and killed other men before they had a chance to blow us the fuck up with an old mortar shell wired to a clothes-dryer timer that they had stuffed into the dead body of a twelve-year-old boy and sat against a guardrail on the side of a road, waiting for us to drive by in our convoy.

                  I fucking hated that shithole of a country, but it did help me grow up fast.

                  [–]1oldredder 2 points3 points  (9 children)

                  Funny thing is, being in the blue-pill Matrix, killing those people in Iraq means you invaded some someone else's home and killed their children to steal oil whereas your own country wasn't under threat from Iraq at all.

                  There's nothing more blue-pill than following orders of a system of lies to murder other people to take resources.

                  By all means if you're a MAN, a true alpha in need of resources and you take them by force for yourself and say "fuck you if you don't like it" to whoever disagrees, fine, but when you're a soldier sending all the gains/profits to the leaders, the banks and oil companies that bought the politicians that sent you to war - you are beta. The slave. Sent to die for their money.

                  You may have got tough but did you really become a man? Or just a gun with legs?

                  [–]Kalepsis 5 points6 points  (5 children)

                  Son, you don't decide where to go. You go where you're sent and do the job you need to do. No, I wasn't giving all the orders, but do you expect to go from 18-year-old high school graduate straight to President of the United States? Tell me, how many battalions did you command at 18?

                  No, I didn't agree with the war. I didn't agree with the President's decisions. But you know what I sure as hell did not see? Oil tankers. Or pipes. You fucking sit on your ass and believe everything the media tells you, that's fine by me, I don't give a fuck about some lazy stooge. I went there. I met the people. I shook their hands, gave their children food when they were starved by their government. I lay next to a burned Iraqi woman in a field hospital who had just lost her daughter because religious assfucks burned her house down for stapling an American flag to her door. She held my hand and thanked me for being there. They wanted us there. Don't presume to fucking tell me why we were there, kiddo. You have no goddamned clue.

                  I put myself through college in the Marines. I worked my ass off to move up the ranks and finished my tours of duty in charge of 120 Marines. I learned countless invaluable skills that got me a very good career. I was taught how to follow in good conscience, how to lead when facing fear, and torture, and death. I am the master of my destiny. And I also slay pussy.

                  Becoming a man doesn't mean you give no fucks about anything but yourself. It is a transition from being dependent as a child, to independent as a teenager, and ultimately interdependent as an adult. Society doesn't work if people don't work together, and the military provides a sense of teamwork and brotherhood you can't experience in many places in this country any longer.

                  Your argument about killing children and stealing oil sounds like some shit a feminist force-fed you when she taught you about the "big, bad military industrial complex and how it's killing all the pandas". If you allowed yourself to be fooled by those women, I pity you. But even if that shit was true, which might be the case, the only way to fix a broken system is to get inside it and change the broken parts. Which is why I will be running for state Senate in the next election cycle. I plan to follow Bernie Sanders' excellent example of standing up for the people. But, no man is an island; interdependence makes us strong, and that is an excellent lesson you can learn from TRP.

                  [–]CptDefB 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  Hmm... this leaves my heart both conflicted and disappointed.

                  You very much believe the things you've said, and very much believe in the things you did (right or wrong is questionable, but not the question). The disappointment comes from all that had to happen for you to get to where you are (that bomb in the body description was dark as fuck, but I don't doubt it for a moment).

                  Conflicted because the same system that gave you these benefits, isn't very good. It's hard to pin point just wtf is going on the Middle East since 2001, but FoIA Requests have already shown the nature of say... the CIA, since the 50s. 2008+ is beginning to show the nature of our banking systems. Information already available shows the chances of, "Going to help people" being the reason, is pretty low. I don't say these to take away from anything you've done, but I do say it to blow away your last paragraph. War is a racket, you of all people should know.

                  I will say; dependent > independent > interdependent, is a good analogy/progression example.

                  You're going to run for politics, in which case, all the luck one internet comment can provide. Hopefully you won't get Ron Paul'd out of your local media.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Red pill senator? Good luck

                  [–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                  Son, you don't decide where to go. You go where you're sent and do the job you need to do

                  SON, this means you don't join up when your government will send you like that.

                  This means if you want to be blue-pill in this thing you are done.

                  The only red pill approach to the military to is to stop and ask "does my country ever fight justified wars or is this just a trick?"

                  Your argument about killing children and stealing oil sounds like some shit a feminist force-fed you when she taught you about the

                  NO, it's provably measurable in dollars, body counts and in each region with oil, showing the territory guarded, the oil company that benefits and you could, with the right access, show which platoons & other forces are assigned to do this.

                  It's that simple.

                  [–]Kalepsis 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  Yeah, whatever you say.

                  For the record, I joined before Bush flew airplanes into the towers.

                  [–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  So after Vietnam. Well, sometimes we learn and sometimes we don't.

                  It's OK. If you can unplug now you can help others not to be fooled.

                  [–]Barely_Intrepid 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                  Damn bro, how can you type with your head so far up your ass?

                  [–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I speak only the absolute truth.

                  Your head is so far up your ass you think everyone else's is.

                  It's you.

                  [–]1RXRob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Whilst watching WWE last night there was a silence for the late Dusty Rhodes. That's when I realised how far I've come, and far I can still go.

                  If I die today, there's a small wrestling company who'll tribute me and a handful of young fans who'll cry.

                  I find it a little depressing that that's far more than most will ever achieve, but also uplifting that I'm on the right side of average.

                  It's time to keep building this legacy.

                  [–]ThreeEyez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Getting back to the core of what makes us men and most importantly, human. Thats what TRP is all about. Great post.

                  [–]Smokratez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I am teaching all the pussies in the world how to be man. I am nice to women. I saved people who wanted to kill themselves. What did you do?

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Refused to betray my fiancee, even if I had a chance with a more beautiful girl. Left my country, my family and my friends at 35 to look for a better future in a country ruled by inbred pedophiles.

                  [–]drummmergeorge 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  This sounds like a mid life crisis. Life isn't meant to be taken seriously.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  It's nice to see this sub evolving from just trying to teach losers how to get their dick wet. I've been down voted before in this sub for saying there is more to life than lifting weights and spinning plates. It looks like people are starting to get it. Build your own life, write your own story. I hope it's an exciting one.

                  [–]whatgold 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  We do have a cause. Once it is learned the entire system collapses, thus it is hidden.

                  [–]SilentAlpha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life.<

                  What do any of these things have to do with giving someone a license to raise a family or dispense knowledge?

                  True wisdom is gained thru day to day life experience. Its the knowledge and instinct that's molded as the years go by. Many men who have lived and done some wild things and emulated 'great lives' have nothing of character or substance to show for it.

                  A man sets his own destiny and produces his own life. You cant measure a life until you're done with it.

                  This post, OP, seems 'pseudo red pill'. I wont discount what you're saying overall as bad. By no means. Live the life you want. But just realize that a mans true worth isn't judged by us or the 'world'. A man who worked in a factory for 40 years may have had countless effects on those around him as opposed to the Hemingway who appeared to live it to the fullest but was an empty shell, broken and bankrupt.

                  Don't fall into the greatest trick of all....idolatry.

                  [–]Tailback 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  Well, in my case, I spent 4.5 years in the active Army followed by 15.5 years in the National Guard.

                  In my Father's case, the most Manly Alpha Red Pill stuff I ever saw was him at a Christmas Concert when I was in middle school.

                  Some dirtbag drug addled homeless person was in the audience. He started flipping shit to a 82nd Airborne Paratrooper Staff Sergeant (E-6) that was the Uncle of a girl in my class home on leave. The dirtbag didn't stop flipping shit for over an hour, and when it was over, while the crowd was spilling into the parking lot, the dirtbag pulled a screwdriver out and was threatening the Paratrooper. The Paratrooper pulled a tire iron out of his vehicle and stuff was gonna get ugly. My 5'7" 140lb Dad out of the hundreds of people, while the 6'4" Principal watched, got in between them and talked them both down. Nobody got hurt.

                  My pops was an awesome dude, but that's the number 1 time that sticks in my head after all these years.

                  [–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  You know, as I began to read your post I was thnking "here we go ..." and then I got to this,

                  My 5'7" 140lb Dad out of the hundreds of people, while the 6'4" Principal watched, got in between them and talked them both down. Nobody got hurt.

                  My pops was an awesome dude, but that's the number 1 time that sticks in my head after all these years.

                  BUT, I was mistaken, and fuck yeah, your pops sounds like he was a Good Man and an awesome dude.

                  That this story is #1 in your head says a lot (of good things) about you, and I'm NO fan of the military, but that's history, and what you posted about is from how you are now, which is the only time that counts!

                  cheers

                  [–]TheRealMewt -1 points0 points  (4 children)

                  As much as I hate to dash your hopes for all of us to have a story to tell to our loved ones when we're old and grey, let's be real here. The days of the rite of passage are over. The same things that you say make people manly like killing bears or conquering physical obstacles are not worth half as much as they were in more ancient eras. We have high powered guns to kill animals for no effort and we have state of the art equipment meant to help modern people reach similar heights akin to those of our ancestors.

                  You even say military service is a rite of passage. For every guy who gets sent off all over the world, racks up a kill count, and has an unbelievable story to tell, there are over ten more who sit behind a desk and don't amount to jack shit. Hell, I'm an aircraft maintenance in the US Air Force and I found myself in a situation where I could fire off some rounds behind enemy lines - hardly anybody in the Air Force can lay to that claim! The thing is, though, I fired from an aircraft using what essentially amounted to point and click. I think it's an unforgettable experience, but in the end it's not fighting a bear and living to tell about it.

                  The days of the rite of passage are over. As humans, we've evolved beyond it - not necessarily because we no longer have a need to prove our adulthood, but because the old methods of making a boy a man are simply no longer relevant. Why do we need to send a teenage boy into the woods to fend for himself and if that were done, what modern technology would be at his disposal to make it more of a cakewalk than a boy beginning his journey during the Spartan age? It's impractical and it doesn't really equip the modern boy to face the challenges of modern life.

                  [–]LaV-Man -1 points0 points  (2 children)

                  For every guy who gets sent off all over the world, racks up a kill count, and has an unbelievable story to tell, there are over ten more who sit behind a desk and don't amount to jack shit.

                  Go fuck yourself. I was a 13E (artillery) in the Army (Combat Arms). If you think the 9 out of 10 guys in the military who are not combat arms 'don't amount to jack shit' you have no fucking idea how the military works.

                  Any grunt/red leg/et al worth a shit knows they can't do what they do with out support units.

                  I fucking hate this mentality. Support MOS's make the 'cool guy' military possible.

                  Thank a support MOS Vet.

                  An army marches on it's stomach. Means, cooks move armies. Those supply guy you make fun of, get you your ammo. Those admin poges you talk shit about, make sure your car payment is made while you're out taking all the glory, chump.

                  [–]TheRealMewt -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

                  You're right, for every badass out behind enemy lines, there's a looooooong chain of support he's receiving to ensure he's able to do his duties with the best of them. Kind of proves my point. You think of the old ways of the rite of passage, you think of the boy in the woods out to kill some wolves and shit like that. You don't think of him having a logistics chain to ensure he accomplishes that. Just because people have important jobs in the world doesn't mean it's anything akin to the idea of the rite of passage. The guys in the cubicle in the civilian world no doubt have important work to do too.

                  [–]LaV-Man 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I was referring only to your quote about non-combat personal "not amounting to jack shit.

                  [–]RPmatrix -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

                  I respectfully disagree -- it's just the 'rites of passage' have changed according to the times

                  Today's Hemmingway's probably see NO value in 'big game hunting' for example, it's "too easy" (as you suggest)

                  BUT, Ernie also didn't have to face the shit many/most of US, DO, of all sorts, and the things which I would consider 'today's Rite's of Passage' are/can be far more sublime, yet NO less 'intimidating' OR 'rewarding' once achieved

                  Being in The Military is neither here nor there

                  IMHO "learning, and then applying" various RP ideas can be called a current 'Rite of Passage' --

                  Swallowing The Pill is not a 'walk in the park',, that's for sure!

                  [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                  [deleted]

                    [–]RPmatrix 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    Do YOU ever want to be 'happy/content?'

                    That's "why"

                    edit: I actually mistook what I now think you're saying /u/DonBravera .... I now think you were trying to imply that an 'alpha RP' guy DGAF, which is usually correct.

                    As for the OP, all I'll say, is that;

                    . I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life.

                    I feel sorry for you. You wouldn't believe me IF I told you half the things I've DONE and 'been through'

                    Do you live in a cotton wool world? (like your 'entitled, chubby mate'?)

                    [–]Jimmy_Big_Nuts 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    You sound quietly depressed with yourself. Find something you love and do it.

                    [–]wolverstreets -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    Was born with a dick and balls then grew to adulthood.

                    [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    fuck you, you sound bitter as fuck

                    [–]luciansolaris -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

                    [deleted]

                    [Praise KEK!](72279)

                    [–]RPmatrix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    A person is (usually) born either male or female, and that's NOT what we're trying to discuss here.

                    It's pretty clear you don't know "what makes a male a Man"

                    Sadly, you're not alone!

                    [–]WhoizDanny -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    Exactly why I strive to do big things in my career and line of work. I love this post. This place has gotten a lot better recently.

                    [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    "I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model"

                    What's the point of walking a great dune in the Sahara or climbing a glacial ice wall if you don't have to?

                    All those rich douchebags climbing (or more like being pulled up by Sherpas) and polluting Everest with their countless oxygen tanks ain't accomplishing shit in my book. They're just attention-seeking posers. If you told them that they could climb Everest for FREE under the condition that they wouldn't be able to tell anybody about it, I bet that at least 90% of them would say FUCK THAT SHIT, MAN, RATHER PAY ME 100K AND GET THEM BRAGGING RIGHTS.

                    A bar fight in Dublin with some prole that could possibly leave you dead or disabled for the rest of your life? And for what? Great idea.

                    Doing a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model? What kind of achievement is that? Anybody who has 10-20k to spend can do that.

                    My point is if you're going to take risks in this day and age, make sure there's a goddamn reward at the end. And that's something to tell your grandchildren about--FUCKING THIS RIGGED GEFILTE FISH SYSTEM IN THE ASS AND SQUEEZING IT FOR ALL IT'S WORTH.

                    I'm living off the grid. I'm doing what I can. It's nothing to brag about to my grandchildren (which I do not and will never have) but at least I'm contributing as little as possible to this kosher pyramid of derivatives and funny money.

                    Sure, I'd love to be barebacking thousands of beautiful teenagers from Eastern Europe on my private island like Jeffrey Epstein, but I'm not a connected Jewish billionaire and I have to accept that.

                    If I was ambitious and brave and resourceful, I'd take serious risks in return for serious rewards or consequences. But I'm not. At least not right now. Right now I'm more or less content with what I've got. Right now the risk just isn't worth the reward, as I have something to lose, unless the score would be at least 7 digits. But how the fuck is a lonewolf like myself supposed to find and pull off a 7-digit score? Ain't happening.

                    Of course, if you haven't grown a pair of balls yet, if you can't sincerely call yourself a man because you feel like a pussy who's intimidated by women and other men, then by all means climb those glacial walls, get into those fights and fuck as many whores as possible. But once you grow a pair (as I already have), you'll find yourself looking at such undertakings from a different point of view.

                    [–]ChiefReap -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    This is an attractive idea and we should be doing more exciting things with our lives. But not hipster ideas like climb sand dunes, glaciers, or go into the chinese forest for a month with no resources. Our ancestors slaved away so that their descendents could live better lives but us hipsters are gonna end up going back in search of adventure and get beheaded.

                    [–]masnera -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    breed children with Truths (not necessarily RP truths) never get them vaccinated, self school with the most fundamental knowledge they need, have them eat healthy, mind proof them to the common pitfalls of today's time. Guide them, accordingly as they age, Nurture them by Nature, and if i can do that before i die... i think that's the answer to your question

                    [–]cascadecombo -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

                    I was born with a penis, and despite my best efforts was able to reach the age of adulthood.

                    Thusly, and rightfully, making me worthy of the title of "man"

                    [–]through_a_ways -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                    Men today tend to be manchildren. It's simply inevitable, and not only a product of our culture, but our lack of true economic hardship as well.

                    [–]circlhat -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                    this is missing the point completely although brings up a important issues, when dealing with women you want internal validation, when dealing with jobs and people outside your circle you want external validation.

                    Believe me you don't need a purpose to get laid, your purpose should be accepting and loving yourself above all else.

                    [–]Chinkibus -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                    Something something Hemingway

                    [–]jx234 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

                    I was born with a penis and lived to the age of 18.