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Rant/VentingI want to reject the red pill. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]x2

After years of lurking here, after all the lessons I've learned, I want it all gone.

Most of what is said here is true.

My LTR shows me the most affection when I hold frame. The times where I lost frame, when I showed my insecurities, were the times where she suddenly didn't want to be with me.

Dread game works wonders. I have more control over my current relationship than I know what to do with.

My girl is basically a subservient, though this is partly due to her nature (perhaps most asian girls are like this). She cooks, she cleans, we fuck when I want to fuck, we go out when I want to go out, if I ever put my foot down, that's the end of it.

But this isn't what I wanted. I'm a beta at heart.

When I was young, people would talk about soul mates as if it were a real thing, and I, in turn, believed it. I would fantasize about how I was going to meet her. What she was like. How nice it would be to have someone who's perfect for you in every way. Basically a disney fantasy on steroids.

It's still what I want.

I don't put pussy on a pedestal, I put the concept of a unicorn on a pedestal.

I want a woman who will love me for me, who will keep loving me if were to lose everything, if I stopped making her feel secure, if I stopped giving her the tinglies, if I lost frame.

Sometimes I want to chase the unicorn. To prove you all wrong. To show you it exists.

Sometimes I wish I never swallowed the red pill.

I want blissful ignorance. I want my fantasy back.


[–][deleted] 305 points306 points  (76 children)

Here's a nice quote for you from the rational male. I read it often.

"We want to relax. We want to be open and honest. We want to have a safe haven in which struggle has no place, where we gain strength and rest instead of having it pulled from us. We want to stop being on guard all the time, and have a chance to simply be with someone who can understand our basic humanity without begrudging it. To stop fighting, to stop playing the game, just for a while.

We want to, so badly.

If we do, we soon are no longer able to."

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 88 points89 points  (4 children)

In the words of patrice: "you never ever get to just love a bitch"

[–]JovianTrainWreck 22 points23 points  (1 child)

I still miss that bastard...

[–]favourthebold 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yeah man. I found about him after he died. Too young.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fuck, now this should be the motto of TRP. So concisely put; I love it.

[–]cntthnko1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then are we just playing the game for pussy? I dont believe that girls also dont want this... If this is not what they want, to genuinely be with another, than wtf...? I have very little experience with girls, i assume thats why i dont believe this -- or want to believe it.

[–]1CaptainFalconer 177 points178 points  (49 children)

And this is why it's so important to have good friends. Bros.

Guys who allow you to relax, show vulnerability, and weakness. To put down the persona, and just be yourself.

Or shell out a ton of money on therapists.

[–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (5 children)

Where are these friends? All the men I know are all betafied and I can't let my guard down around them any more than I can around women. Sometimes the men are worse.

Sure I can come here and get the support of my RP bros. But what are we 68,000 out of how many millions in the English speaking world? Even then, it's just text on a screen. Poor substitute for human interaction.

[–]Aaron565 7 points8 points  (0 children)

get a group of good guy friends thats beyond one thing in common. If you are only friends with them because they are in your class, thats not good enough.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They aren't that hard to find, I managed to find a proper bro at work recently, and generally men with reasonably red pill outlooks are everywhere. They might just not show it 100% of the time so you've got to keep your eyes open.

They're everywhere, usually fucking some other poor chumps wife

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (29 children)

This is the best way to go. It's great to fantasize about having a wife/gf who you can let in, and who will be your best friend. Hell, I was in the same position as you. Sadly, you can't have it all in one place. Women will use you when you show any vulnerability, and will rarely tell you the truth or give constructive criticism.

Build up a network of rational, well-balanced alphas. They are the only people you can truly trust.

[–]Imapancakenom 27 points28 points  (28 children)

Some women may "use you" when you show vulnerability, yes, but not all. I think it's more accurate to say that women lose respect for you and lose their attraction to you when you show vulnerability.

[–]CruiseCruise 43 points43 points [recovered]

Yeah, and I'd add:

They temporarily lose some attraction and idealize you a little less. But if you're not pathetic about it, then it's not permanent and you dont have to get stuck there. You just go do something masculine and you're back on track. Shove her against the wall and bite her neck. Flirt with a waitress. I do goofy shit like tell her how big my muscles are and how strong i am -- it's playful and it works just fine. And we're back in business.

Vulnerability isn't the end of the relationship. Being pathetic is, and there's a big difference between the two.

[–]elbirth 18 points19 points  (8 children)

I think you nailed a key aspect for those of us that get disheartened by all of this. Vulnerability versus being pathetic. It can be a very fine line, but you can show vulnerability without being a complete wimp about it.

[–]CruiseCruise 15 points15 points [recovered]

You might like this: One time, i welled up a little reading an inscription my GF's mom wrote to her in a book. The inscription was very very touching.

I kind of gave it a little time, then said something stupid about how it sucks having biceps that are so huge i cant even bend my arm enough to wipe my eye when i'm allergic to stuff.

My arms arent that big, and it's obvious i wasn't alergic to anything. It was dumb caveman OBVIOUS bullshit. Which was PERFECT. It felt big and strong and guy-ish, and gruff, and she liked that i gave a tiny little shit about her relationship with her mom.

Later I forced her up against a wall and kissed her because i know she loves that shit, and we went out to dinner.

She gets to feel like she's got this really physical gruff man who also has a nice side, but doesn't get carried away with it and can turn the nice shit off with no hesitation. It's all true, AND it's kind of an act to make sure she feels and remembers it's true.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What is the act? Being the "Nice Guy" or being the "Alpha?"

[–]CruiseCruise 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It's all me.

Just, sometimes it's a conscious decision to bring out one side to respond to a situation, or to balance out if i've been doing too much of the other stuff.

But usually by then, I"m sick of being nice and want to do some tough guy shit. or i'm ready to be nice for a while.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It has been expressed in many ways but Q on Star Trek said it best:

"All the galaxy's a stage."

[–]mzog 0 points1 point  (1 child)

But brah, barsloots only respond to my buff alpha dumbass frame, not when I cry about my inadequacies or why my father never loved me!

[–]CruiseCruise 1 point2 points  (0 children)

TRUE.

dont cry in bars. it will not get u laid

[–]psycho-logical -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Vulnerability and emotional expression is also a big reason why musicians swim in pussy.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 7 points8 points  (0 children)

We should probably apply Law of Power 46: Never appear too perfect.

A little vulnerability makes you human and approachable but just a little.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (7 children)

There are women who will mistake ANY vulnerability for being weak. In Atlanta, women tend to make final judgments pretty quick--quicker than I've seen in Los Angeles, Boston, New York, New Orleans, DEFINITELY Wisconsin and anywhere else I've lived. I've seen a fellow here talk about something--totally not being a pussy about it, just being frank about their feelings on a situation and you see women tune right the fuck out. Their fantasy is so easily broken. At least in this city (which has fairly recently been labeled as the gold-digger capital by a local news station a few months back) you can't let down the persona for a millisecond. Women in this town REALLY are after that chump who's gonna save them; any example of vulnerability or truth is met with immediate disappointment that you're not gonna provide them with frivolous STUFF. Its brutal, I feel really bad for the dudes that actually are looking to date the ladies out this way. ]

[–]dhump 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Atlanta area here, can confirm.

This place has quite a crop. I don't know if it's the "southern belle" thing, or what. That said, more than once I've played the "well, time for me to get out of here, come with if you want". Only to glance back once I've reached the door to see her scambling behind me.

[–]CruiseCruise 0 points1 point  (5 children)

You're not gonna get laid being vulnerable in a bar.

And if you want a relationship, you're not gonna be happy with a gold digger anyway.

I'm talking about an relationship where you are already perceived as masculine and strong, you dont have to constantly bullshit.

I dont understand why guys keep talking about an act or a "persona," like its something fake. We're men already, and that's what women want, we just gotta not emasculate ourselves. Just be masculine, like you naturally want to. Sometimes you feel shitty for a while. Okay, be shitty for a while, just dont be pathetic about it. And bounce back quickly and do some kind of manly thing and you're fine. Or else find some cooler chicks.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I refer to a persona because the amount of women..even the nice ones have a limit of how much of your TRUE self they can take before that feminine boredom kicks in.a good example is a friend of mine who went on a date with a girl to whom he explained that he really likes the Crow. its his FAVE. She has no problem with that until she sees his Crow poster in his bathroom. Apprently she was pretty offended by it. But she had fair warning and STILL proceeded to act like he's some creep for a PICTURE in his bathroom. We are always putting on a front that's reality....male and female

[–]CruiseCruise 0 points1 point  (3 children)

You can think of it as putting on a front.

Or you can think of it as bringing out different aspects of yourself at different times.

We are all tough, and soft, for example. Being tough isn't fake, it's just bringing out a part of yourself to respond to the situation. And that aspect of yourself is so effortlessly arousing for women.

I don't know man. I found TRP and it was like loosening my belt. FINALLY there's this whole explanation for why i can let go of the bullshit brainwashing i got from women, society, mom, etc, and just be how i want. and women love that shit. Seems like it would be horrible to feel like TRP meant faking it all the time, would be exhausting. Blue Pill is faking it--blue pill is pretending that you believe you're a loser and that you like it, basically.

If this shit all feels unnatural, it's only because we are out of touch with our natural masculine nature.

What women want is what we already are. It's just--our natural manliness is covered by years and years of basically trying to give your masculine power away (holding back, checking ourselves, not coming off too strong, politeness training, accommodating other people's envy, pretending we think we're pathetic so we dont upset anyone, etc.) Throw that stuff out, enjoy that you are already naturally a man and that is inherently enough, and it is by definition what women want. And it turns out that and you're naturally attractive. This life is SO MUCH fucking easier than the blue pill.

and by the way, i find, when it feels like i'm turning women off... i take a step back and usually I'm NOT being my true self. I'm usually giving in to feelings of fear or weakness or patheticness or neediness or worrying about rejection or trying to get approval or whatever. It would be a huge mistake to think any of that miserable shit is my true self. I just look at that stuff, call bullshit on myself, let go and move on. And it's like switching a light back on.

I don't know YMMV.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

That's my thing...using the different facets of who you shouldnt feel unnatural but yoyoure also not being 100% you either. there's a threshold, but i definitely see where you're coming from. Redpill IS a huge eye opener on not only women's behavior but how men have been enabling it by not forcing a basic standard on the women they interact with. most men's barrier doesn't end until its far too late, simply because they don't want to rock the boat abd potentially mess up the inhouse pussy that pacifies them

[–]Indeed_suh 0 points1 point  (7 children)

i do not agree. I very much respect men who show vulnerability. I also respect men who show leadership. I think its a balance of both that makes a difference. And even if you are always vulnerable, that means you will attract a woman who compensates for that, who i think would end up being your best partner, wouldnt it?

[–]hepatosplenomegaly 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Women say they want one thing but actually want the opposite.

Take note, gentlemen. This is why you can't get advice about women from women.

[–]Indeed_suh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I suppose so, but the relationships that have lasted with me have been with men who were more toward the middle of the road, which is kind of where I am. Alpha in some ways, beta in others, both complimentary to each other.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 3 points4 points  (2 children)

You respect UBER ALPHA men who show YOU (and you alone) their vulnerability because it had to be something special about YOU. You are imagining validation station over there. This is the problem- women imagine the Alpha guy who attracts them when giving their advice. Yes, the Asshole Alpha can show vulnerability and retain attraction. The average Beta dude that is invisible to you cannot.

[–]Indeed_suh 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I guess I didnt think about it like that? Though, I am an alpha female in many ways and like some beta aspects with a man because we dont compete with each other in those areas. Is it possible for a man and a woman to both be sort of in the middle of alpha and beta and in that they attract each other? Though I guess in the end I do prefer being the passenger to the driver of the relationship. Like.. Im the best co pilot ever! :D

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes this attraction dynamic you describe is common. Nobody except a guy with Narcissistic personality disorder and Psychopathy in prison is a "pure" Alpha- we are all a mix. Beta is great for a LTR but women need to understand that to much Beta makes them lose attraction. Your co-pilot comment is very interesting. Most people are shocked to learn how many women are actually supportive of the idea of being the First Officer or the Co-Pilot rather than the Captain. Whether it is "biology" or "God made us that way" the answer is the same.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (6 children)

Exert a lot of effort to alter your personality to more closely match your goal. So you enjoy yourself and aren't just acting. Every now and again you can let your guard down a little. Pressing your face against a woman's back at night is nice. But, yeah, nothing replaces other guys.

[–]DingoManDingo 85 points86 points  (2 children)

When I press my face up against my homie's back, I truly feel safe.

[–][deleted] 24 points24 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]StarkAtheist 14 points15 points  (0 children)

AGREED.

I started hosting a party every Thursday night with just the alpha guys from work. I call it "Boys Night" and all the women at work HATE me b/c I will NOT allow them entry. lol

We play darts, cards, video games, drink beer, do shots, etc.

More importantly, we encourage each other in maintaining frame, listen to each other's challenges, and it helps us get through all the drama/high-maintenance from the women the rest of the week.

We knew we wanted to hang out.

We just didn't know we needed to...

We're on Week 18 and it's gone from just fun, to an Institution.

Bro's before ho's. Every time.

And Strength in Numbers, gentlemen.

[–]Josh_The_Boss 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Or older male mentors. I recently quit doing kitchen renovation work to go back to school, and while I don't regret this decision, it made me realize something. I didn't realize how valuable this older coworker was to my well-being until I suddenly didn't have someone to get good, masculine advice from. How important having a man to look up to and model myself after is, and a man that I know won't turn his back on me during my times of darkness.

And if anyone has someone like this in their life, don't take them for granted.

[–]KingDBC 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah. I'm not ashamed to say the most important person in my life is my best friend.

[–]ametalshard -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Or girl friends who are basically bros. That's definitely possible...

[–]Casual_Tits 28 points29 points  (4 children)

This resonates with me so much. It breaks my fucking heart. But I fucked up before I swallowed TRP. I fucked up a lot. I didn't pay attention to what was happening in my life. But can't not pay attention now.

I'm not gonna fuck up like that again.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I hear you! That shit tore me apart. Trying to rationalize it away was useless and over time I realized that men aren't allowed to be weak. And that trusting someone as much as I trusted her was absolutely foolish. Not having a backup plan was a terrible idea. If I'm depressed I'll be that way around my guy friends. Around women I want to be with intimately I have to maintain frame. Now I'm mostly fighting off oneitis, arguing sunk cost fallacy in my head, and figuring out the best way to next the girls I don't really want to waste time with. They're nice to have around for a backup but this is my movie and they are lucky that I let them be a part of it.

[–]Upvote Me!trpbot[M] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

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[–]HeadingRed 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I want to reject it as well. The fable spun by the other side is so attractive. I can relax, take it easy and live in a fair and honorable world where my love, deeds and actions are returned in kind.

I also want to be a Jedi that meets Jesus when I get to heaven. Fables are so damn attractive.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Sadly poignant. Good quote!

[–]master235 9 points9 points [recovered]

First post because of procrastination: So if I will grow old my wife/relationsship will leave me as soon as I become weak? So EVERY woman cheats if the chemistry and oppurtunity is there, and her attraction for her partner is fading? So no woman can ever be trusted? There are all just animals?

[–]MasonJarTeaDrinker 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Nah man, some may want to but their sexual market value is already low or pretty low so they feel like the can't or they won't due to social pressures.

If you turn into a weak needy little beta though, you better believe that they aren't going to find you sexually attractive and I'm talking about pretty much every high value woman.

[–]zlex 12 points13 points  (1 child)

We are all just animals. No relationship is guaranteed, most end terribly, but sometimes not always.

[–]StarkAtheist 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You're correct.

We are just animals.

A bit more evolved than most animals... but animals nonetheless.

(Except on Black Friday. Every shopping human is a jackal that day.)

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No they don't all cheat. They ALL lose attraction. Choose your poison- a sexless marriage or a divorce are your choices if you grow weak.

[–]RPDBF 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Reading the book now its great

[–]randyzive 3 points4 points  (4 children)

If men understand men, we should just marry each other.

[–]Diarrhea_Van_Frank 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The other day I was thinking about how much easier life would be for me if I were gay. I just ain't, so it's back to the grind.

[–]xiko 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I realized that gays are born this way because I feel no sexual attraction to males. My life would be so fucking easy.

[–]1Ill_mumble_that 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And the problem with trannies is they start thinking like women due to the HRT.

[–]Indeed_suh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love that. I hope to meet a man who exists in that paradigm.

This is beautiful.

[–]Indeed_suh -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I love that. I hope to meet a man who exists in that paradigm.

This is beautiful.

[–]Wesleykin 38 points39 points  (8 children)

I was called a soul mate by a girl once. We never fucked.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (5 children)

I had a girl who told me she loves me and that I'm "perfect" never fucked$

[–]StarkAtheist 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I had a girl tell me "You are perfect in EVERY WAY..."

She dumped me 2 months later.

I will never be a "nice" beta again.

TRP hurts like hell... but life-changing truth often does.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What's hard for me is my mother. She's probably the only woman I know that can be called a "unicorn". She's stuck it out through poverty, she dedicated her life to her family, always cooking and cleaning, she comes from a family of that.. But in todays world being that way is just not in a womans nature or benefit.. And sure there are definitely woman who are better than the scallywags that are often shows on TRP.. But even so a woman is a woman and you she can lose all her attraction of you on any impulse.

[–]StarkAtheist 3 points4 points  (1 child)

My mom is the same way. She grew up taking care of 5 brothers. She cooks, cleans, everything... a total giver. My parents been married over 50 years.

BUT???

Back then ALL guys were alpha's... my dad included.

I can never compare today's women to my mom, even if I remove all emotions out of the equation.

We have completely fucked-up gender roles today.

And every song, movie, and TV show is telling guys to be beta. I never saw this until I read TRP.

PS -- "Everyone Loves Raymond" is the most evil, detrimental TV show EVER CREATED. (i.e. Loud-mouth, bitchy, negative wife is always right, and beta husband ALWAYS has to back down and be a slave).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah man. Its true back then almost every guy was alpha.. My dad has those tendencies but then again his emotions and thoughts are blue pill.. These days the best thing you can do is to improve to the point where you can just enjoy the women you can have if you're seen as superior.

[–]jjshinobi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haha holy shit, I see one of the most open (digitally, on social networks) girl I'm talking to sending me pics and telling other people this (some form of dread and to try to create jealousy) and I'm sure I'm the one with the leg up. Before I found TRP I'd be upset but yeah. It's great to know I'm on the other side now.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Please tell me you were a kid.

[–]Wesleykin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. It was fairly recently with a hot blonde. I messed up somehow and I knew it when she said those words.

However, I think it's smart to have good looking women around you so we hang out. More women flock to me when I'm out with her.

[–]JSploosh 527 points528 points  (40 children)

ok cypher.

ignorance isn't bliss.

That steak you want isn't real.

[–]1xwm 57 points58 points  (0 children)

That steak you want isn't real.

No, but the memory of it is. It is hard for some to distinguish, and harder for most to forget, even when we know better.

[–] points points

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[–]WindowsDoctor 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Ignorance is fucking bliss.

[–]BorMato 76 points77 points  (9 children)

What a well placed reference.

[–]systemshock869 6 points7 points  (5 children)

But.. but.. that's the point of the 'ignorance..'

[–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 180 points181 points 2 (4 children)

Ignorance is regret waiting to happen.

[–]RobbyTheLifeguard 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Mother of god that is one of the smartest things I've ever heard. Did you make that or did you hear it somewhere?

[–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Just made it up. I thought of my life and how much I regret and how much I wish I could change things due to my ignorance.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (2 children)

The harder I worked to make my wife happy, to reveal my heart, show her who i am, the more she resented me. After swallowing the pill her interest in me has risen AND her ability to take care of her own shit has gone up. The fucking steak is cardboard man.

[–]SubtleObserver 0 points1 point  (1 child)

After swallowing the redpill what changes did you make to alter the dynamics of your marriage?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I stopped doing everything for her. Started telling her what we would do a bit more. Worked longer hours. And maintained frame. I stopped losing my cool and started setting my own schedule more than worrying about what she needed. Hah its funny how it works

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Unless he's the chosen one

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (3 children)

Even then the steak still wouldn't be real. He'd just be able to bend it and shit.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No man... he can only bend utensils... so maybe the steak knife.

[–]nechoha 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm watching the movie now in sci fy

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly, look what happened to cypher when he tried to get re-inserted in to the Matrix. The Wachowski brothers wrote in to the script for Tank to wake up and shoot him with an electrical gun, then he dead.

Great post though OP - we all get this feeling from time to time; crush it. Serves no purpose.

[–]I_post_my_opinions -1 points0 points  (12 children)

It's more correct to say that the steak is a needle in a haystack. What really isn't real is you. What really isn't real is the relationship with whoever you are with if it is based on the mutual affection between a woman and this "alpha male" you've made yourself. There are ways to be 'alpha' without creating a "frame" you have to always uphold, that's why beta and alpha are mindsets and not divinely anointed statures. OP's relationship seems like it 100% lacking emotional understanding. That's a very unhealthy relationship and there is absolutely no happiness in that.

I mean, fuck, is all you want a girl for is to fuck?

I want someone who isn't afraid to speak their mind in an argument, not someone who stops the moment I "put my foot down". I want someone to cuddle with and discuss life and dreams with after sex.

Everyone wants something different because everyone IS different. Just because you couldn't find that steak doesn't mean nobody else in life will. And if you think that nobody else will find that steak just because you failed to do so, then you're putting yourself on way too high a pedestal, bud.

I'm sorry life didn't turn out the way you wanted it to. I'm sorry you're happy with settling for someone who doesn't actually give a fuck about the real you that everyone else in your life has come to love. I seriously am. I'm sorry.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 4 points5 points  (11 children)

I mean, fuck, is all you want a girl for is to fuck?

Pretty much.

I want someone who isn't afraid to speak their mind in an argument, not someone who stops the moment I "put my foot down."

No you don't. Trust me on this. If you want a wife with more discussion and argument than you can handle it will not be a problem. If you are in a relationship with a strong woman you will enjoy the arguments and heated discussions- my wife is a lawyer- but when you ultimately decide to 'put your foot down' you don't want her to continue to badger and poke at your frame. You know not what kind of hell you are inviting with this attitude.

I want someone to cuddle with and discuss life and dreams with after sex.

Fine, just read the Sex God Method and cuddle AFTER you choke her.

I'm sorry you're happy with settling for someone who doesn't actually give a fuck about the real you

Nobody is saying women 'don't give a fuck about you. We are saying that women will not love you in the way you have been conditioned by Disney et al to expect. We are saying the love for a woman is primarily transactional. Women divorce men who are depressed at staggeringly higher rates than the converse.

[–]I_post_my_opinions -1 points0 points  (10 children)

Pretty much

Well, I guess more power to you. I know nothing I say below will have any meaning to you, then. I had a close friend like that once, but he found his steak--I'm still using this steak analogy. He went from having this plan during the sophomore year of college to "fuck at least one new girl each day for the first two weeks" to saying he's going to marry a girl. And this was a guy who could have 100% accomplished his goal. He was a red pill God. So again, I'm saying sorry because I know you just never found the right girl and fell into this cult-like mindset.

__

I know what I want more than anyone else.

I mean, if you're happy in the lifestyle you have, that's fine. It's your way of living. My opinions mean nothing.

But I think you've been heavily deluded into thinking that the alpha way is the only way of living in the same way that others have been deluded into thinking everyone is going to find their juicy steak in life.

I think you just gave up. I think you failed with relationships in trying to be yourself earlier in life, and that's why the red pill message is so strong for you.

I wouldn't be happy with someone I couldn't explain my feelings to, and to be honest I feel like a chick sometimes because of that. But that's just who I am. I understand people changing for the better, but to completely shroud the real you because of what others think or because you've failed and are hurt that you can't form a meaningful relationship is just so cowardly.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Since you took the time to reply in depth and you seem to really be trying (there is just a block) I will reply in kind.

First, you are seriously misapprehending both TRP and me. I have been married for over 20 years to the same woman. You must be kidding about not being able to find the right girl or form a meaningful relationship- but I stand by what I said. My primary interest with my 40 something wife is for sex. We have epic discussions but most of them boil down to me telling her my intellectual ideas while she nods her head. We have 2 active kids. It's all great but, yah, sex. If you don't have that you don't have anything. With TRP the sex has gone from 1/month to 3-4/week. You do the math.

Before I met my wife I had 3 pretty serious LTR's. I can see now that each of those 3 relationship featured me being a hard nosed, I don't give a fuck dude who then 'got comfortable.' Cue the I love you but I'm not in love with you. The pattern is obvious once you open your eyes. Read this sub for a while and you will see the exact same story repeated over and over again.

With my wife the same pattern- except being a good woman she didn't "leave" or divorce-rape me. Nope, she just made my life a living hell of sexual denial and shit tests.

Now everything is different and I don't care if it is a "game" or a role playing thing. I was arguing with one of YOU PEOPLE over at TBP after they linked me out of context (naturally) and claimed my exceptionally talented wife (a rich attorney) was 'only pretending to let me lead so I will cooperate with her.'

My answer- "That could very well be the truth but it doesn't matter. The roles we play are important."

As Q said: "All the Galaxy's a Stage." We ARE the roles we assume. The "real" you is always changing.

For a LTR, TRP gives you the same dynamic that was advocated for all of human history until about 1964. For somebody looking to ride all the girls he can find TRP has the answer to that also.

[–]I_post_my_opinions 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Computer crashed mid-reply, so this is gonna be shorter than it should be. It's also gonna sound harsh because I cut out all the fluff to make myself not sound like an asshole.

With TRP the sex has gone from 1/month to 3-4/week. You do the math.

That was completely unhealthy in the first place. This case isn't rare, and you shouldn't think that it is. Because of that, it provides no support for red pill ideas, because honestly any change at all to the relationship would have led to more sex. She was bored of you.

Cue the I love you but I'm not in love with you.

Why be in that relationship, then? Why even be in the current relationship? Why not go fuck a bunch of younger, more attractive girls? I don't see the point in sticking to one girl if there's no emotional connection, and there's not since you have a "I only want my wife as a fuck toy" mentality.

With my wife the same pattern- except being a good woman she didn't "leave" or divorce-rape me. Nope, she just made my life a living hell of sexual denial and shit tests.

That's your first problem. You were a beta for not leaving her. I've been there and done that. I've made the same mistake as you, I just didn't put a front to hide my feelings and take control over someone who didn't want me.

Now everything is different and I don't care if it is a "game" or a role playing thing. I was arguing with one of YOU PEOPLE over at TBP after they linked me out of context (naturally) and claimed my exceptionally talented wife (a rich attorney) was 'only pretending to let me lead so I will cooperate with her.'

Well, I'm not from blue pill nor do I even have that mentality. I don't understand the point of this statement being here? If anyone is leading anyone on, it's you leading her on with a fake alpha mentality that you don't really want to have to use.

Honestly, I think putting up a frame makes you more of a beta. I think it counts as hiding from your fears. I mean, really, does it make you mad that there are actually some people out there who can be 100% themselves and still have a partner that loves them for them? Or can you just not wrap your mind around the fact that that actually happens because you're so deluded in your own insecurities?

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 1 point2 points  (4 children)

This case isn't rare, and you shouldn't think that it is. Because of that, it provides no support for red pill ideas, because honestly any change THAT LED TO YOU BEING STRONGER, IN BETTER SHAPE, MORE MASCULINE, MORE COMPETENT, MORE IN CHARGE, MORE CONFIDENT, AND A BETTER LOVER at all to the relationship would have led to more sex. She was bored of you.

FTFY

I don't see the point in sticking to one girl if there's no emotional connection, and there's not since you have a "I only want my wife as a fuck toy" mentality.

No, you don't see. I love my wife. I love her so much it hurts. I love her so much I have to fight the warm fuzzy feeling of comfort and drugged love in order to maintain her sexual attraction and interest. You don't understand that some- in fact MOST- guys are sentimental and weak. We were not raised with strong fathers who did what they wanted to do and taught us to do the same. Most of us want our lover to take us by the hand and make it all better. Except that is not how it works. Try it some time and you will see in 90 days or less exactly what we are tying to tell you.

I just didn't put a front to hide my feelings and take control over someone who didn't want me.

Again you do not understand. More often than not when you 'take control' of a woman she suddenly DOES want you. What do you think 50 Shades of Grey and Twilight are REALLY about? That is the Red Pill secret and I think that might be your problem. You think you are married to another man. You are not and you will learn that lesson sooner or later. Second, YOU are in control of YOUR emotions. It is not a "front." If you are thinking bad thoughts change them and think good thoughts. If you are getting ready to Beta out and get repulsively sloppy and sweet then just don't do it. Crack a joke or throw a neg instead.

You want everyone to "Just Be Yourself" and it works IF the "JBY" or what you call the "real you"/@tm is an independent man unfazed and completely unaffected by our constant feminine conditioning who naturally attracts women. If that is you then gratz. You are a "Natural" Alpha. More power to you. For the rest of us, excuse our pardon while we work to improve ourselves to that point.

[–]I_post_my_opinions 0 points1 point  (3 children)

No, you don't see. I love my wife. I love her so much it hurts. I love her so much I have to fight the warm fuzzy feeling of comfort and drugged love in order to maintain her sexual attraction and interest.

Having to fight your emotions means that's not the relationship you should have. You're hurting yourself to sleep with a woman that isn't attracted to the person you really want to be. I've been there, and I would fap with a cheese grater before I did it again. It fucking hurts. Also, that means you don't just want a wife to fuck. Don't kid yourself. If she cheated on you, you'd be fucking hurt. If she were just a piece of meat to you, you wouldn't give two fucks. You care about her, and she cares about something else.

You don't understand that some- in fact MOST- guys are sentimental and weak. We were not raised with strong fathers who did what they wanted to do and taught us to do the same.

No, I understand. I never had a father. Maybe that's why I am so sentimental and weak. But I embrace that as who I am and I am confident in that person. I am the farthest thing from a "natural" alpha, but I believe I stand out from all the people actively trying to act and put up a front that makes them seem alpha.

If you are getting ready to Beta out and get repulsively sloppy and sweet then just don't do it. Crack a joke or throw a neg instead.

You've got it wrong. There's a 60/40 rule. 60% of the time you crack and joke and be sarcastically mean to the point where they're asking themselves why the fuck they're even with you. The other 40% of the time you be sweet and witty to the point where they're saying, "Oh yeah, that's why I'm in love with him." You can't be alpha 100% of the time because that's just as bad as 100% beta. The real difference in attractiveness in terms of communication is knowing what to say and when to say it.

independent man unfazed and completely unaffected by our constant feminine conditioning who naturally attracts women. If that is you then gratz.

It's not about being unaffected. It's about using that feminine conditioning to your advantage.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Love it. I suspected you would chomp on the Beta bait. Very feminine and that's not criticism, just observation. As for my emotions, I was taught to exxxpresss myself and the fuck if I didn't do that. Men need to control their emotions, not express themselves more. The "Real You." The ultimate apex fallacy.

Since we are doing apex fallacy, as I understand your argument, I should be in a relationship where I can be sappy sweet all the time, let my wife make all the decisions, and sit around all day playing video games, fat and out of shape? That was the "real" me. That is the "real" husband in 90% of marriages- and hey it's not the "Real Me" to go to work either. Let me know how that works for all of you fakers.

Except it is not "fake." Every experience you have changes you. When you take a class, go to college, read a book, learn a skill it changes you. When you were never properly taught attractive behavior it is not 'denying the "REAL YOU" to learn said attractive behavior. It is creating a new, better "Real You." Class dismissed. I am done feeding the concern troll.

[–]I_post_my_opinions 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Since we are doing apex fallacy, as I understand your argument, I should be in a relationship where I can be sappy sweet all the time, let my wife make all the decisions, and sit around all day playing video games, fat and out of shape?

__

sappy sweet all the time

I literally just stated in the last comment that that is the worst thing you could do. Yeah, it might work for some girls, but a vast majority would find that boring and repetitive and ultimately unattractive.

let my wife make all the decisions, and sit around all day playing video games, fat and out of shape?

I can tell you no longer want to argue because you're putting words into my mouth. Some decisions don't matter and she should be able to call shots. Some decisions need to be mutual. Some decisions you should call all the shots. You don't get to call all the shots on every issue. What a shitty relationship that would be. You were fat? What does that have to do with red pill mentality? Good for you for getting into shape, but that means nothing. Nothing wrong with playing video games. If she doesn't like it, she can deal with it. If that's enough to break a relationship, then it wasn't a strong relationship.

When you were never properly taught attractive behavior it is not 'denying the "REAL YOU" to learn said attractive behavior.

And that is? Attractive to whom?? I've read some red pill discussions and if that's the person you're setting yourself up to be, then the women you're trying to be attractive to are the absolute worst women to be in relationships with. You're setting yourself up for failure, albeit you're probably too old to care now.

You have a very black and white mentality when it comes to attractiveness, and I'm telling you as someone who could do exactly what you're doing very easily--that your views are just weak.

Call me a troll, say class dismissed, whatever. That's lame. Never say that in an argument again, alpha man. It's embarrassing.

[–]donit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Red pill is not a cult. It's the realization that men and women are different and not interchangable. It the realization that each of the sexes has an evolutionary designed role to play, and stepping outside the boundaries of that role leads to relationship issues, especially loss of attraction, interest and motivation.

You think you know better and can carry out your individual preferences, but if you pay attention, you'll realize that stepping outside those boundaries is nearly always to your peril. Just watch, wait, and keep score. You'll see. Hoping to find a woman who can respect your right to be beta sometimes is like hoping to find a bicycle that runs backward. Their gears don't naturally bend that way, so it's like asking a woman to run her biological subroutines backward. You can hope all you want, but she don't work that way.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Some questions for you:

What evidence do you have that this girl your friend is dating is the steak? Has the relationship lasted for years? No one is saying that your friend is gonna get betafied in a year or less, or even that he will ever get betafied. We are just saying that he needs to hold frame like a motherfucker to make a LTR work.

It seems like you are turning your desires for a relationship into some sort of evidence for a world that doesn't exist. If you wouldn't be happy with someone that you couldn't explain your feelings to, is the world obligated to provide someone out there that meets your needs?

You'll find that people here have managed to find happiness that isn't dependent on women and then we are free to engage in romantic relationships that aren't based on unrealistic expectations.

[–]I_post_my_opinions 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What evidence do you have that this girl your friend is dating is the steak? Has the relationship lasted for years?

Yes, it has. He doesn't need to hold frame at all, if he did, then that wouldn't be a steak.

It seems like you are turning your desires for a relationship into some sort of evidence for a world that doesn't exist. If you wouldn't be happy with someone that you couldn't explain your feelings to, is the world obligated to provide someone out there that meets your needs?

That's exactly what I explained in my other post. No, and it does not work out for everyone or anywhere near everyone.

You'll find that people here have managed to find happiness that isn't dependent on women and then we are free to engage in romantic relationships that aren't based on unrealistic expectations.

Those thoughts are just as radical as believing in unrealistic expectations. I'd consider myself neutral, believing that there is a steak out there that I could possibly find while I'm still young. Sex isn't a priority for me right now, so I'll just keep living life and going what I'm doing in hopes that I find her on my way. I don't expect the perfectly cooked steak to pounce at me, but I'm not going to change myself and create a frame for someone when I have so many people that just like for myself. That's all I'm getting at.

[–]Santo26 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

yes and the steak will also destroy us

[–][deleted] 88 points88 points

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[–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (7 children)

Yeah I used to think that I could eventually rationalize with my mother if I just kept focus and explained shit as coherently as possible. Now I just say "Mother I'm not having this discussion with you. I'm going to do what I'm going to do" and she just constantly says "I LOVE YOU SO MUCH XOXO"

I want her to understand shit rationally because I know it will help her. Now I know she can't.

[–][deleted] 20 points20 points

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[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (4 children)

You'd think that our mothers for the most part would be on board to raise us to maximize our genetic potential but instead they raise us to be providers.. I never understood why they wouldn't want to raise us to be men -- to be raised to procreate to pass on their genes along with ours.

I hear you so loudly about the mom thing. Part of my bitter/anger phase was directed at my mother for how she raised me; and my dad in near equal parts for not intervening.

I'm glad your mom's on board with the book. Either I'm bad at explaining things to my mother or she REALLY doesn't get it but she's still attempting to appease me to "not hate all women." I tell I her I don't but that I'm definitely NOT looking for marriage or long term stuff, especially at 27 years old.

[–]winndixie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ignorance. And the promises of comfort from feminism. Try not to blame em, bro.

[–]Burner1701 0 points1 point  (0 children)

TRP doesn't talk much about having kids as being a worthy goal in life. TRP is largely anti marriage and definitely anti paying to support children. If anything it's pro vasectomy with sections on how to make sure no girl salvages sperm from your used condoms. No mother is going to deliberately raise her son to think of women as plates.

[–]TomHicks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

she just constantly says "I LOVE YOU SO MUCH XOXO"

Who talks like that? Is your mother 12 years old?

[–] points points

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[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Dont ever love a woman as long your momma love you

[–]calantus 5 points6 points  (0 children)

[deleted]

What is this?

[–]lightfire409 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Huh? Your mother is the literally only women in the world that loves you unconditionally. No matter how beta you are.

[–]1independentmale 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Most mothers love their children unconditionally. Some, sadly, do not.

[–]teeelo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Which only adds to the problem!

(Loving their Son, for being their beta self)

[–]lightfire409 0 points1 point  (0 children)

oh yeah, no doubt. Thats the only thing that has confused me about single mothers. Why isn't the instinct of women to raise their sons to be alpha, this maximising the potential to pass on their genes?

[–]zeny_two 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sigh. Amen.

When I told my mother that the pretty girl in our family would likely take no jobs after her degree, instead electing to rely on a husband, she told me I was jaded. Three months later, Facebook is littered with wedding pictures, references to children, cooking and homemaking articles. I was surprised that Mom lashed out in defense of team girl, but it's true - AWALT.

[–]teeelo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup me too. I maintain frame around her and show leadership and she almost gets a sense of relief that the leader is taking care of it.

(I live with my mom after my dad died a few months back)

[–][deleted] 29 points29 points

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[–]Modredpillschool 176 points177 points  (10 children)

You can't go back and enjoy what life was like before, because life wasn't actually good then. You had hopes/aspirations that one day you could achieve the ultimate blue pill dream-- but that doesn't mean you'd have ever reached it.

What you remember, and what you miss about your old life was a fantasy that you never did and never could achieve.

It's the carrot-and-stick that keeps the blues so darn blue.

[–][deleted] 86 points86 points

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[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Sounds like something Frank Underwood would say.

[–]emjayt 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Then tap his class ring on the table as he walks out of the room

[–]LoveOfThreeLemons 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Or Don Draper. "My life moves one direction--forward"

[–]87GNX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Was thinking more Corey Haim

[–]DoctorsHateHim 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Why. Because if you do not explain why, then it has much less lasting impact on people reading this. You should point out what you gain by adopting this mindset.

[–]1Ill_mumble_that -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Your drill will be the one that pierces the heavens!

[–]draketton 27 points28 points  (3 children)

my answer is a dualistic strategy, just like women use

don't try to fuck the women you confide in

[–]RPL23 1 points1 points [recovered]

this is brilliant. this should be the filter new guys to RP should use when meeting a woman.

would you rather fuck her or tell her your problems? if you want to fuck her, be RP and play the Game.

if you want to confide your problems with her, dont try to fuck her. be BPish (not too much or you'll go back to old ways in all aspects).

worse of all, imo: if she gets you to confide, she's playing you into a position where you won't be able to fuck her.

HOLD. FRAME.

edit: some added notes.

[–]2johnnight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think I once fucked up a good thing by making this error. A necessary lesson.

[–]1NPIF 65 points66 points  (1 child)

You don't really want your blissful ignorance back. You're just upset that your fantasy wasn't real.

This is part of swallowing the pill. Accepting that what we're raised to believe as boys is not the reality we face as men. And that becoming a happy, successful man requires you to adapt to this change in your belief system.

We all wish that the blue pill, fantasy-land where we can be open and honest and not spin plates and have that blissful LTR with a perfect woman who loves us unconditionally was true. But it never will be. So suck it up and make the best of it, because the world isn't going to change just because you ask nicely.

[–]damndirtyhippy 10 points11 points  (0 children)

That is a powerful statement you just made. It applies to life overall and not just with male / female relationships.

"The world isn't going to change just because you ask nicely."

A favorite comedian of mine, Doug Stanhope, talks about how he 'figured out' a lot of shit that is wrong with humanity and has said it all on stage but no one listens and nothing changes. This dichotomy between dudes and dudettes is not going to change so hop on board, gentlemen.

edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCGkVyyDOcU

[–]LibertarianLibertine 86 points87 points  (20 children)

What you really need is male friends and beer, because that's where you are allowed to complain and open up.

[–]1CaptainFalconer 19 points20 points  (2 children)

What's interesting to me, is that it's almost like the beer allows social permission for men to open up to each other. Like suddenly it's not considered to be "unmanly" on that specific context.

Also, camping with beer is interesting, because it's like a whole weekend of shooting the shit.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

add your favourite music festival and it's all you need to unwind..

[–]Johnny10toes 14 points15 points  (3 children)

That would be nice but I've never allowed myself to open up to anyone totally except one person, my wife, and that backfired. When I was really young I shared something personal with another person and I was betrayed. Since then I've been a clam.

[–]Apollo1982 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Been in the same boat. Anytime you open up is a risk. You just need to be gradual in the level of trust you place in people. Test the waters and see if they talk about you. Reward is when you find someone who will keep your trust and you can really talk about stuff to them. True friends are rare.

[–]DoctorsHateHim 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I would suggest to you to read up on the ego and how it fucks with your perception of the outside world, by observing your automatic emotional response from a higher vantage point you can see how irrational some reactions we all have are.

[–]Johnny10toes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you have a link? I'd like to read that.

[–]heeb 32 points33 points  (4 children)

God damn, had that last night. Just me, my male friends, and good (German) beer.

God, it's good to just talk men shit once in a while…

[–]Casanova-Quinn 30 points31 points  (2 children)

[–]heeb 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That's gold. Haven't seen the movie; an omission I will need to rectify soon. Thx for this.

[–]lucoztazade 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Absolutely brilliant movie.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Male friends? They are all beta bitches. They don't talk as men. They squawk like bitches about the same three or four "male" topics (guns, politics, and Japanese anime) like pissed off commentators on the TV news. And like Orwell's telescreen that shit never turns off.

And we can't openly endorse TRP. We have to subtly introduce concepts and plant seeds. If any RP concepts do come up in conversation, each one of these fuckers will pontificate at length at how "alpha" they really then turn around and lose frame like beta bitches. Fuck! I just want to put a gag in these fuckers' mouths and go "WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?!"

And these are my friends.

Beer? I'm trying to lose some damn weight. I don't want to undo my gains by drinking beer. I don't even drink cola anymore.

The Red Pill is a bitter pill indeed.

It's worth it to have finally f-closed with a woman I've been orbiting for years

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dude you should get some new friends.

I mean, friends with differing opinions can be helpful but if they can't truly relate to you, they're more like aquintessences.

If I mention to my friends anything about my severe depression or constant need for escapism, or the immense disdain I hold for certain entitled, sadistic women, they just reply "me too."

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Yeah fuck beer... real men do shots of vodka if they want to get drunk!

[–]winndixie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's funny, guns, politics, and Japanese anime none of my male friends talk about.

[–]nubfilter 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Something I've always been curious about.. I'm one of the few unmarried males in my main group of friends. I don't pull 'a lot' of pussy because I'm busy but some. Before TRP I would have said FWBs. some longer term, others not so much.

I do not bring girls around my main group because I don't want them hearing the other girls say "Oh you two are good together" and "we need to get you married" blah blah blah. For those of you in an LTR (but unmarried) what are your go to tactics to protect against(or inoculate your girl for lack of a better term) the other women unwinding all of your training and bringing her into their frame?

Edit: I should add, the 'girls' in the group are (pardon the pun) pretty tight. 10+ years as friends for 95% call each other sisters and so on.

[–]Riusakii 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The best tactic for this is what you have been doing: Don't bring her around those people.

You should never introduce a girl to your family or friends until the two of you have been in a LTR for a while.

Many guys make the mistake of bringing girl they are dating (not even in LTR yet) around to family gatherings and double dates with siblings and friends. This is the best way to kill the mysteriousness about you as your friends will start to leak secrets about you. Also introducing a girl this early is showing signs that you want to move things along too fast and she will get scared away.

[–]otiswild 28 points29 points  (1 child)

Want in one hand and shit in the other, and see which one fills up first.

[–]Turkerthelurker 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Holy hell I love this quote. To contribute a favorite of mine:

“Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.”

― Madalyn Murray O'Hair

[–]metallica11 69 points70 points  (17 children)

The trade off and sad fact about shifting the way your treat women to align with the red pill mindset is that you tend to lose parts of a relationship that really made you connect with someone at a deeper and honest level. the soulmate experience if you will. The openness to be completely honest about our feelings.

you aren't allowed to display true vulnerability

you aren't allowed to truly grieve

you need to maintain frame despite how hard you fall for her

It's all about staying closed, and that is what hurts. I love and cherish openness. this openness is what makes me really connect with someone. Without it women are just pawn in the game of life, dehumanized etc. Only for my fulfillment and enjoyment. What happened to being openly selfless?

Religion allowed people to love unconditionally, the thought that whatever pain you were going through in your physical life there was a light at the end of the tunnel in terms of salvation. Now that agnostics and atheists are climbing, there is no motivation to truly care for someone if they continuously cause you pain for the rest of your life.

[–]RobNine 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Back when I was in HS I learned about Stoicism. I've made it my life goal to be as close to the thoughts of the original meaning of it as written by Zeno.

"The Stoics did not seek to extinguish emotions; rather, they sought to transform them by a resolute "askēsis" that enables a person to develop clear judgment and inner calm"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism#Ethics_and_virtues

[–]Iramohs 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I've been unknowingly doing this for years. Good to know there are fellows like me in this world.

[–]deadgod1 14 points15 points  (3 children)

Yes, TRP has killed romantic/unconditional love for men. The trade off is it increases the chances of sex and relationships

[–][deleted] 70 points71 points  (1 child)

It killed off the illusion.

It never existed in the first place.

When you are vulnerable in front of your LTR you are taking a chance with her attraction to you every time!

[–]accursed_wolf 10 points11 points  (0 children)

The illusion of blue pill is what we were fed for so long that it makes sense to wish you could have that life again. I had a period where I reminisced about my blue pill days until I started remembering how that life is actually harder and it gets you nowhere.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Well no, the current state of our society has killed it. TRP is our Plan B

[–]joncho 11 points12 points  (9 children)

I don't agree at all with what you are saying.

you tend to lose parts of a relationship that really made you connect with someone at a deeper and honest level. the soulmate experience if you will. The openness to be completely honest about our feelings.

You were not connecting at athe deepest level, betas don't connect at a deeper level. You were just being selfish and leeching from her instead of fulfilling your role.

Connecting doesn't mean having to say everything and expect the other person to agree on everything. Connecting means looking at the other person and knowing that despite the differences and different strategies you are both pushing in the same direction.

Do I get the feeling sometimes that I deserve to have my wife act like a mother and love me no matter what? Yes, I bet we all do. But I quickly recognize that is a selfish though and I'm just trying to skip my end of the bargain. It's not fair to her. She is your partner not your mother.

Religion allowed people to love unconditionally, the thought that whatever pain you were going through in your physical life there was a light at the end of the tunnel in terms of salvation. Now that agnostics and atheists are climbing, there is no motivation to truly care for someone if they continuously cause you pain for the rest of your life.

Religion allowed you to keep sustaining the pain in hopes of a doubtful promise, thus reducing the incentive to do something to change the situation. Killing the dream and accepting there is nothing else forces you to do something about the pain here and now. There is no second life, you need to try harder in this one. It's empowering.

[–]soulmatter 5 points6 points  (8 children)

There is no second life, you need to try harder in this one. It's empowering.

I've never taken this view on religion. For one reason: religion allows you to let go of the fears that you have concerning your one life in this world. To not be afraid to die (assuming of course you're not going to hell). It tells you to let go of the risks and be all you can be in this life. Because even though you're just passing through, you're still working for the next life.

[–]joncho 2 points3 points  (1 child)

What works for you works for you.

But why work for something that is a doubtful promise and sounds too much like a fantasy when you can dedicate your energy to having the best life you can here and now? Why endure shit for a promise when you can adjust your mentallity to make the best of reality, not the best of something that might never happen? I understand that you think it's making your life easier but it's also conditioning the way you adapt to reality by taking away some of the incentives to make the best for you of here and now.

[–]soulmatter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I understand where you're coming from, but you're projecting your perception of how I run/"limit" my life concerning my belief in an afterlife. EDIT: I want to add that my belief in an afterlife has given more purpose to my life. That there's more to life than just what I see at the moment with my limited senses. That perhaps our time here has a purpose beyond our current comprehension.

[–]1independentmale 1 point2 points  (5 children)

There is no hell. It is but a charade designed to frighten you into compliance.

[–]soulmatter 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I'm impressed that you're so confident in your belief. We live such insulated, painless lives. It would be awful if an ocean of torment was waiting for us after death, despite following all the rules.

Why do we even need to experience pain? Why are we not just an infinitely reacting collection of molecules? Should we not just be automatons without souls then?

[–]1independentmale 2 points3 points  (3 children)

It would be awful if an ocean of torment was waiting for us after death, despite following all the rules.

Whose rules? There are hundreds of different religions and sets of spiritual beliefs. Most of them are in direct conflict with one another. Many of them proclaim their way is the only way and all others are going to one version of hell or another. People of the same religion can't even agree on the rules. There are numerous sects or denominations within the major religions who believe their particular take is the only way.

Let's say there is a hell. How do you pick which rules to follow in order to avoid being sent there? For most of us, the choice is made by our parents. We are all products of our environment. I was born into a Christian nation, raised Catholic and taught to believe in Jesus. Had I been born in Saudi Arabia, however, I would have almost certainly been raised as a Muslim. Born elsewhere, I might be a Jew, or a follower of Hinduism or any number of other religions. Whether I go to heaven or hell, therefore, seems to be based on nothing more than dumb luck, at least if you subscribe to the "our way is the only way to heaven" mantra that most religions postulate. If you're lucky enough to be born in the right nation to the right parents and taught the right things, you're in. Otherwise you burn for eternity in a lake of fire through no fault of your own (thanks, mom and dad :/ ).

I find the entire notion ridiculous. If there is a God who created us and loves us, it seems unlikely that such an entity would damn us to such a place - and if he would, then fuck him. I wouldn't bow down to a cocksucker like that anyway.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

You are not ready to take the ultraviolet pill yet.

Think about it for a second. You are privy to information (RP truth) that angers BP guys. You understand and see logic in your RP understanding, but when you were BP, you understood and saw logic in your BP understanding. There were splinters of cognitive dissonance, but not enough to congeal into a breakaway understanding without willingness to hear, and a compelling and compact explanation of RP truth available to you. You are also aware that society never had your best interests in mind as BP is very profitable. Even people looking for truths about alpha male mindset can stumble across bullshit sources that promote techniques with no deeper understanding of how the male must choose to be transformed. As RP likes to tell wistful newbies, the world has no obligation to be how you wish it was. You have the obligation to search it out and understand what you should become to profit from it.

And yet you dare to judge something that has the same kind of form as the BP/RP situation, with people testifying that there is eye opening truth there. You sound like the BP white knight, "I will never treat women bad like you guys because I'm better than that." except you are claiming moral superiority to a theoretical god.

[–]1independentmale 0 points1 point  (1 child)

except you are claiming moral superiority to a theoretical god.

You bet I am. The god portrayed by Christianity is an asshole, full of cruelty, contradictions and nonsense. I doubt he exists at all, and if he does, if he's really just exactly like his followers claim he is, then I want nothing to do with him.

[–][deleted] 41 points42 points  (4 children)

You only remember the good side of the bp. Reflect for a moment on the negative side and feel blessed.

[–]1independentmale 6 points7 points  (2 children)

This bears repeating. We tend to remember the good and forget the bad, especially when it comes to relationships.

Toward the end of my marriage, I began keeping a diary of my wife's antics. I had started to notice a pattern in her behavior, a crazy cycle, if you will. On more than one occasion I found myself thinking, "Didn't we just fucking go through this?" Since the cycle usually lasted several months, it was just long enough for me to forget and let things return to normal before fucking she-rex showed up again to fuck up my world and blame it on me. So I started writing shit down, marking an electronic calendar up with colors and log entries to track her behavior. I did this for nearly two years, verified my hypothesis that she really was crazy as fuck and there was nothing wrong with me, and divorced the nutcase.

After she had been gone for awhile, I had dark moments where I missed her. Moments where I wanted to call her up and make amends because of all the good memories. It was during those moments that I pulled out my log entries. It never took more than a few sentences to remember all the hell she put me through and how much better off I am without her.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

This is a fucking great, brillant idea. May I borrow it?

[–]DoctorWelch 10 points10 points [recovered]

"You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?"

[Takes a bite of steak]

"Ignorance is bliss."

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was thinking of the same scene reading the OP.

We were sold this lie as children of true love and soul mates. We believed it because people of authority, people we trusted, told us it was true. Then we grew up and the illusion fell apart.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

My advice to you is to stop looking at a romantic relationship as the singular bond that will satisfy all of your social needs. Instead look to your family/friends for social experiences that allows you to attain what you desire. We have this ridiculous notion in western culture that our SO should also become our best friend. Its nonsensical.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We have this ridiculous notion in western culture that our SO should also become our best friend. Its nonsensical.

Exactly -- its premise is that the two of you are equals. That's faulty and very toxic to an intimate relationship. The man should undoubtedly be the leader, as having the woman's respect is the only way she'll not wander.

[–][deleted] 62 points63 points  (21 children)

You can have it.

You can find her.

You WILL find her.

And it will be wonderful, and it will last quite a while, anywhere from 6-7 months to 6-7 years; then inevitably, she will either leave you or you'll grow apart, or she'll do something to make you leave; and that's if you're lucky, worst case scenario . . . you know.

So, if you are willing to have a series of long term relationships in your life that will start absolutely great, then settle for middle of the road, only to end sourly in a way that leaves you empty and mildly depressed, go for it.

EDIT: Thank you for the Gold Stranger

[–]alwayzhongry 9 points10 points  (6 children)

so true. my unicorn relationship lasted 10 years through the thick and thin. her sticking by through my difficult times blued me up to her and here I am now. never thought it would be possible for it to end the way it did.

[–]MaxManus 6 points7 points  (3 children)

I can feel you. Just going through the same for the last 4 month.

It was ..OK when it ended, how it ended, but then we fell back on each other and I never thought that what she then did was ever possible.

I feel a different kind of sadness then ever before and I am not sure if it because she can't love like I do, or because I am so angry at myself for ever letting her back in my life in the first place, or letting down my guard for the slightest.

She was the sweetest person I ever met and now she is more or less a whore to me.

[–] points points

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[–]MaxManus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think so. I am more heading towards MGTOW right now as I am disgusted by women for now.

[–]Soultrane9 1 points1 points [recovered]

never thought it would be possible for it to end the way it did.

I'll gladly hear you out if you need to vent. Also i'm in my unicorn relationship and interested.

[–]Zokura 14 points15 points  (8 children)

Just broke up with my girlfriend of 1 year half an hour ago.

It was a freaking mess, hell I even shed a tear too. She was such a good person and really good to me. But she ultimately held back, she didn't push me. I could have settled for some mediocre years with her, but I would always be thinking what if?

It started off absolutely great, but that's the thing, it fades and you settle for "good enough". Life is game but you only get one turn.

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points

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[–]SlootShamer[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This sounds very "carrot and stick" to me.

[–]Wheat-Thins 2 points3 points  (2 children)

You dumped a girl because she doesnt shit test you enough?

[–]Zokura 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It just one of many reasons, but yes there was no willpower to fight back which led it to become mudane and montone. No shit tests from a girl might sound like a Red Pill paradise but depending on the situation it can be just as bad as too many shit tests.

[–]ktappe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think he went into enough detail about the reason for the breakup for us to infer this.

[–]thebornotaku 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You may get only one turn, but remember never to regret what you enjoyed when you did. If it was good for you then, fine. If it isn't good for you now, also fine. But don't hold grudges or beat yourself over it. Ultimately the past is the past and the only direction you should look is forward.

[–]throwaway_explainer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you only get one turn

Life is a championship; a tourney with many games against many opponents, some of whom you meet later, some who drop down.

You have many turns, you have the ability to concede, you have the ability to gain back your losses, and many times you have the ability to play again. However, after every game, the standings in the tournament have changed. You can never go back, but you sure as hell have more than one turn to learn and shape your faith.

Today, it is even feasible to not play at all, or change the tournament if you want to.

Life is great, but remember the old wisdom that you must pick your battles well, and some games are so strange that the only winning move is not to play at all.

Lead a good life.

[–]LibertarianLibertine 6 points7 points  (1 child)

No, even in those relationships OP would need to hold frame.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

My point is that he can Beta his way through a relationship, yet it will degenerate with time.

[–]MojoMoley 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Hey buddy, uhm...what about couples who are married 50+ years until their death?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Couples who today have been married for 50+ year are about 70+ year old; meaning they were born right around 1940's (before WWII), different times, different culture, different upbringing, not the same ballgame as today's culture.

[–]erwgv3g34 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Repeat after me:

What is true is already so.
Owning up to it doesn't make it worse.
Not being open about it doesn't make it go away.
And because it's true, it is what is there to be interacted with.
Anything untrue isn't there to be lived.
People can stand what is true,
for they are already enduring it.

And again:

If the red pill is correct,
I desire to believe that the red pill is correct;
If the red pill is not correct,
I desire to believe that the red pill is not correct;
Let me not become attached to beliefs I may not want.

Given that I live in this horrible world, I do not wish I could regurgitate the red pill. What I wish is that the world was not horrible, so that I would not need the knowledge of the red pill.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So basically the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

[–]1800-afkmotivate 13 points14 points  (5 children)

Read a book about meaning instead of power.

Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, Concluding Unscientific Postscript by Soren Kierkegaard

[–]tyranus89 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Existentialism is a great way to deal with huge shocks to personal philosophy. Nietzsche specifically is good to read after swallowing TRP.

[–][deleted] 7 points7 points

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[–]Dreamtrain 29 points30 points  (9 children)

We already know, because those of us who were BP were fed their line of thinking, so I can answer you as if I was a 2XC poster:

"It's okay to feel this way, just be yourself, don't push yourself to be someone you're not. Don't let anyone make you think its wrong to be weak or vulnerable sometimes, life happens, if someone doesn't appreciates your highs without your downs then they don't deserve you, and guess what? This girl is probably just not the right one for you, the right one is right is probably around the corner, just be patient, she will come along."

I know, right? It does sound very alluring and nice. I'd like to see what TBP sub has to say though, even if its satire, there's some truth usually behind every little post/comment.

[–]topspeedj 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Probably quite close to what they'd say. What I saw there:

"Meaningless cliché, cliché, cliché. Meaningless cliché, cliché, cliché. Meaningless cliché, cliché, cliché. Meaningless cliché, cliché, cliché. Meaningless cliché, cliché, cliché."

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You get used to it. I...I don't even see the hamster. All I see is blonde, brunette, red-head.

[–]fatw 9 points9 points [recovered]

Hot damn. You're good at that.

[–]Dreamtrain 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I've actually told other men those lines in the past. If I could travel back in time I'd pop out and tell past me "Great advice, how's that working out for YOU?"

[–]1xwm 5 points6 points  (1 child)

And if you ever made a move on the person who said that using the things she said:

"I'm not good enough, you need to find someone better."

Or

"I just don't have the time for a relationship right now."

(Or insert other bs)

[–]Dreamtrain 9 points10 points  (0 children)

"I'm not good enough, you need to find someone better." is a line I got by 5 different women in a row. Then they would go for men, that lets say the kind of men their mothers/fathers would not be proud of, and I'd be dumbfounded, it really does a number on your self-esteem when you are taught that BP is the way and you BP harder than anyone you know.

Then you start to see yourself be treated like shit because of the way you are and you can't quite come up with an explanation of why shit is happening because you're doing everything you were taught was the right way and the way to be a good person, reinforced by people around you telling you how you're "such a great guy", "don't change", etc. so you start to victimize yourself because if you're doing everything right then everyone else must be wrong, after all you're just being yourself, so the problem isn't you.

Now you are not just heartbroken, clueless about why bad things are happening to you, with zero self-esteem and spiraling into depression but have also relinquished any control or responsibility to change anything by adopting a victim mentality.

And they still wonder why we read TRP. BP can do a number on men's life, but nobody wants to admit it. I for one am glad I'm out of that vicious cycle.

[–]krystyin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow - you should write a book - BP vs. RP

[–]cashmoney_x 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Have you considered that all you really want is for it to be easy?

[–]1dongpal 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I, too, sometimes dream about my wonder lamp and flying carpet. But some things exist and some don't.

[–]theredpillthrow 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I can relate a little bit. There are times where it'd be nice to confide in someone, you feel like you're emotionally flexed 24-7.

My confession: I talk to my parents and grandmother a lot when I feel this way. Women seem to be wiser after menopause, hopefully you can find someone to confide in, if not, try therapy (with a man).

You're allowed to have your weakness, just don't let your see woman it.

as for the unicorn that will love you, sorry man. I wished santa was real when I was a kid, but we all gotta grow up sometime. This is just Santa 2.0

[–]Unfiltered_Soul 11 points12 points  (0 children)

This reminds me of that one article about a 40 year old woman that regreted breaking up with his man 10 years prior because she thought she had limitless options.

[–]1NV0K3R 18 points19 points  (7 children)

I actually thought about this today.

I remember way back when, with my first girls, how happy and exciting it was, those fucking tingles, and how they could do no wrong.

Now women come and go, and I wonder, will I ever feel™ that way again.

I probably won't. Love isn't real. It's just serotonin and dopamine being secreted from the brain. I have to make myself happy. And I will.

[–]wheyapartment[🍰] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Don't lose hope.

You can improve the functionality of your dopamine sensors, you know? Chances are they're burnt out from overstimulation like porn, video games, drugs, or any other addiction. Just google it. Personally, my problem was porn addiction and video games and I"m fixing it at the moment. I've been clean for 8 months now. The difference is startling: I highly recommend it.

And no, I'm not religious. I was only convinced after seeing the science/theory behind it.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well I am religious so downvote me to hell.

The Bible is the penultimate Red Pill book which has been perverted by feminist inspired churchianity.

[–]1NV0K3R 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I've always wondered what "porn addiction" was. Like you can't get off without looking at porn? Or you HAVE to look at porn to get aroused? I just never understood what that meant.

I do look at it and I play a mild amount of video games, not going to lie, mainly as there's a lack of other things to do in the town I live in.

It's not that I really want those "tingles" back, I just crop it up to knowing better.

[–]wheyapartment[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn't realize I was addicted until I tried to stop. It took a while to recover, but the difference is like light and day. My baseline for enjoyment is so low that almost anything can be entertaining: work, studying, organizing my stuff, cleaning, going on walks, exercising, mild social interaction, etc.. I don't need highly stimulating sources of pleasure to enjoy myself, but when I do experience them, they're 100x better than how I experienced things while addicted.

You know how people consider being "easily amused" an insult? That's a fucking lie: it's a blessing unequal to anything else in this world. It's so easy to get ahead in life when you actually enjoy doing it. Hard work is no longer a worthless chore that I need to get out of the way: it's an enjoyable challenge.

Edit: Oh, and as for how the porn addiction worked, over time I just lost interest in many things in my life. The changes were so slow that I didn't notice them for years. I didn't feel like I had to watch porn, but I did it very frequently (twice a day on average; once a day minimum) and I escalated my porn use to various fetishes over time. I had no motivation to do anything productive, I was physically weak, I couldn't gain muscle after lifting for years, my social anxiety was TERRIBLE, and I was depressed to the point of strongly considering suicide (but I pussied out in the end). I'm on the far end of the spectrum, so I'm probably not the best example for the average person, but I'm sure anyone could descend this far if given enough time with porn. If you've ever met someone with a bad drug addiction, the effects are similar: they become a worthless, lazy human being and most don't realize it until it's too late.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU

This guy convinced me. Best decision of my life hands down. It's when I started taking control of my life.

[–]MasonJarTeaDrinker 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I remember way back when, with my first girls, how happy and exciting it was, those fucking tingles, and how they could do no wrong.

I still remember that also, it was such a great feeling back then, I do remember most of those relationships crashing and burning though.

It's good to reminisce but I feel better now that I don't get needy with women.

[–]twreq 1 points1 points [recovered]

I read a good forum thread once about this subject - someone chimed in that this feeling is actually mostly from neediness and to truly love/care for someone it takes time and experiences together. Not to mention once you take TRP, it's harder to care for women in general.

[–]MasonJarTeaDrinker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not to mention once you take TRP, it's harder to care for women in general.

This is true, you literally take them off of the pedestal so they don't have that aura around them anymore.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You are in the depression phase. You realize that the reality is so horrible that you were much happier being ignorant to the truth. Although in my opinion, the red pill is only one of many truths out there. Just remember why you swallowed the red pill in the first place. Remember that you weren't happy putting women on the pedestal and remember that you wanted to be more than just a beta bux. Just remember why you did this in the first place.

Also, keep in mind that if you are depressed this place is here to help you with that. And I also feel the same way you do but with what has been happening in terms of the women, I am becoming more and more cynical towards this disney fantasy. In any case, all you need to do is remember.

[–]sdfghjklooo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's where we all started. Accept reality not fantasy.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I want a woman who will love me for me, who will keep loving me if were to lose everything, if I stopped making her feel secure, if I stopped giving her the tinglies, if I lost frame.

What you're describing is a mother and this is a universal feeling. It's the same with a father to a daughter.

[–]reason_is_why 5 points6 points  (0 children)

" A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."

William Shakespeare

[–]frequentlywrong 22 points23 points  (2 children)

Sometimes I wish I never swallowed the red pill.

That's just stupid. Those beta losers live absolutely miserable lives. The older ones are beaten down husks of men.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 14 points15 points  (0 children)

That's just stupid. Those beta losers live absolutely miserable lives.

Not necessarily (at least not initiatlly). Why do you think are so many guys so invested in their BP mindset? Because they're actually happier that way - provided they succeed in finding their unicornor_who_they_think_is_one .

For them, falling in love is a bit like having your first crush when you were still a teen and totally oblivious to anything. Swallowing the pill is, in a way, like growing up and having to face reality - if you could have opted to stay young forever and everything that it entails, can't you imagine people going for that option? That's also why the RP/BP-metaphore is such a good fit. Because, as Cypher said, ignorance is bliss.

[–]Santo26 11 points12 points  (1 child)

[–]TRP VanguardYouDislikeMyOpinion 9 points10 points  (2 children)

I stopped fighting reality a long time ago.

I saw the truth and said to myself "well, this is how it actually is".

Then it took me much time to come to accept it.

Now I don't see any other way to live. It's like growing up to know you can't fly. Sure flying would kick ass, but I'm not going to live my life thinking of how awesome it would be to fly every day. And then you never think about how awesome it would be to fly again. You enjoy what you can in life.

I'm not going to fight reality.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]TRP VanguardYouDislikeMyOpinion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is the exact quote that I read a long time ago, that had a lot of impact in my life.

[–]FallenHighSchoolJock 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I agree with OP, but this life is unobtainable for most men. You basically need to be born 8/10 handsome, talented and with an alpha low inhibitions personality to go through life thinking this whilst also having success with women. I would give anything to be put back into the matrix as a male model, blissfully unaware of the real social dynamics between men and women, thinking that people loved me for my personality when in reality all they care about is my face and status. I could be successful in a career and think it was all based on my own merits. I could have lots of friends and girlfriends and think that they all loved me. I could get back into writing, and fiction and watch movies at face value and not see hypergamy, out of control feminism and the halo effect everywhere. Alas we were born genetic trash incels, at least we can do something about it. However most incels make this realization subconsciously and turn into Elliot Rodgers.

[–]a_chill_bro 2 points3 points  (2 children)

It sounds like you haven't yet fully accepted the truth. A part of you deep down inside has not yet peeled through enough layers of the false social constructs (feminism, blue pill, etc.) to make the full transition into a full application of TRP (aka Sociopathy).

Once you fully accept and apply TRP you will feel empty inside. You feel no emotional connection to any relationships with your plates because you recognize them as bullshit to begin with. In turn though, they are fully emotionally invested. All you see is code (shit tests, etc.).

For anyone reading this I would highly recommend that they read The Gervais Principle. It's a game changer.

http://www.ribbonfarm.com/the-gervais-principle/

Its a bit of a read but well worth it.

[–]Kirkayak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Semi-lurker, here (meaning that I only come here from time to time):

That is the first time I've read that TRP = sociopathy.

Given my limited reading here, I would have said that TRP = strategy, but I suppose that full strategic prowess probably does resemble, if not require, something like sociopathy.

I often wonder if solitude is not better. One can be as vulnerable as one desires with oneself.

I will doubtless need to read more, in order to present a more authentic response to TRP.

[–]Locastor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey I just started reading through your link, it's like the Red Pill for Work!

Upvoted, and thanks.

[–]socalnonsage 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Long time lurker, first time coming out in TRP but this thread struck a chord which I needed to respond to.

I'm 38, married, kids, and RP swallower. I can honestly say that I'm happier than I've ever been in my life (and my wife can proclaim the same). She's a very strong woman with a successful career and there's nothing that pleases her more than to serve me.


I can assure you that SHE (your girlfriend) wants needs you to be RP.

  • She wants needs a leader.
  • She wants needs to be given tingles.
  • She wants needs you to be decisive when she's not.
  • She wants needs you to show her that you're in control and you can protect her.
  • She wants needs you to be confident and secure in yourself.

The sooner you understand this, the better off you'll be.

[–]abbw2000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You need to see agent Smith about that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7BuQFUhsRM

[–]2RedPill4LYF 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We all want this. No one is here because this is what they always wanted. Female nature is inherently dysfunctional. This is the truth. Without the order of a masculine man, women stray and make poor decisions. A man's life is infinitely more difficult because we shoulder 100% of the responsibility for maintaining relationships.

[–]deepsouthscoundrel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I want a woman who will love me for me, who will keep loving me if were to lose everything, if I stopped making her feel secure, if I stopped giving her the tinglies, if I lost frame.

When you think about it this makes no sense. Why would she continue to feel that you're special when you're actively demonstrating to her that you aren't? Sure, it sounds nice in concept, but in order for this to be reality it would take women acting in opposition to their own interests. Never going to happen.

The good news is that once you accept that romantic love is conditional you are able to understand the condition and meet it, should you choose to do so. You can't expect to meet a condition you never knew was there, and this is why so many bluepill relationships fail. They don't know what they're doing wrong because they won't accept that wrong can be done.

[–]howie777 2 points3 points  (0 children)

hey thank you for this. I'm going to save this post as I feel the same way as you do. Getting pussy is not an issue, and I don't put the pussy on a pedestal. And just like you I've noticed that when I showed my insecurities, the girls I thought would hold it down, ran away. And this is what hurts because true love, and I do believe in it, is there for you when you do feel insecure. All this holding frame BS works, but I think you and I look for more than just a submissive, obeying lover. We want a soulmate. True love when you feel down, and when you feel good. I remember my mom told me that a girl doesn't truly love you when she won't keep up with you in your weak moments, or when you're acting beta, whatever that means. i'm a human and if I feel insecure, I'm not going to hide it. The woman who still holds it down, that will be the one I'd like to see for a long time. Someone who understands my sensitive side.

[–]CruiseCruise 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just sit in a chair and look at your life and recognize that you're perfectly fine right now, there's no reason you're not enough. The whole idea you're not enough came from people trying to manipulate you.

So just look, and let go of the bullshit idea that you even need a unicorn. It's just bullshit. just look.

You're totally complete without it.

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (4 children)

Yeah and I wish Pokemon were real. Get over it and grow up.

[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Maybe I've been here too long. I get tired of this shit

[–]TheRealMewt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You know what the Red Pill can teach a man, so you know what you need to do to condition yourself to perform otherwise.

Just don't come crying back here when that blissful ignorance you so yearn for blows up in your face and you have nobody to show for it.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (9 children)

You make me sad. Is it so incredibly hard to understand that there could be something in between juvenile naivety and blind TRP-biologism?

Yes, young people dream of soulmates, and then they grow older and learn that soulmates probably don't exist. And then they learn that the bread&butter of a partnership is this: WORK (no, i am not speaking about lifting). Love is an act, it's something you do. And at some point you have to make a decision to go through with it even if things become tough.

This is pretty easy to understand if you take into consideration the fact that humans are mindboggingly complex beings - with their consciousness, their different upbringing, their traumas and bad experiences, their different genetic starting conditions and what not. There is no way to ensure compatibility. It requires constant adjustments, and after years people usually develop a pretty good intuition, which lowers the effort required to maintain a partnership.

And the reward? A partnership between peers. No captain/1st officer bullshit. Two human beings fully aware of what they are doing and why. Something redpillers will never experience if they don't get rid of their simplistic p.o.v.

If you turn your own household into an experimental configuration to test manipulative techniques you might succeed in manipulating someone, but you will end up living with a "partner" who is either broken, silenced or naturally free of any ambition. How is this person supposed to enrich your life?

And now you have the mess. I honestly don't know what to say to you! You done goofed!

This is by far the most ruthless comment i have ever written. I am really upset. Sorry for that. Your post presents a good essence of what's wrong with TRP. It makes me rage and cry at the same time. Talk to your wife. I mean: talk to her as if she was a human being with own thoughts. Maybe she's way more interesting than you have ever imagined. I fucking don't know... this is sooo fucked up.

Young redpillers: read this and be warned. Someone hand me a handkerchief, please...

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (5 children)

And then they learn that the bread&butter of a partnership is this: WORK (no, i am not speaking about lifting). Love is an act, it's something you do. And at some point you have to make a decision to go through with it even if things become tough. There is no way to ensure compatibility. It requires constant adjustments, and after years people usually develop a pretty good intuition, which lowers the effort required to maintain a partnership.

That is quite true.

Talk to your wife. I mean: talk to her as if she was a human being with own thoughts. Maybe she's way more interesting than you have ever imagined.

You can only talk to a female lover in a way that does not show weakness. Sure, you can get away with showing weakness from time to time. In fact, it's even better to show a few moments of weakness that you then address and become obviously stronger from. But if you constantly confide your fears or show your weaknesses, the first thing that happens is she loses her attraction to you. And it's all downhill after that. No one is perfect and lapses are normal. However, the important thing is that you need to have an overall forward direction in life in order to maintain a LTR successfully. You have to keep things positive and playful or else suffer the consequences. Your confidence has to be quite consistent.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

If it were like you say: why does it work the other way for so many couples? Why are there so many couples with a strong female part and a weak and caring male part? How do gay couples work? Why are there so many women who stand by their men specifically during times where he fucks up?

You have to keep things positive and playful or else suffer the consequences.

Life itself isn't always positive and playful. Nobody can take the burden of creating such an illusion. If the partners only share pre-chewed bits of reality, how can they hope to overcome a bigger problem together? This whole "Hold your frame!" can only end in burn out, depression, major frustration and in the worst cases a violent outburst. Or a total mental sclerosis.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Why are there so many couples with a strong female part and a weak and caring male part?

Statistically, these couple are more prone to adultery and divorce.

How do gay couples work?

Statistically, male gay couples are more prone to either cheating or allowing an open relationship. Statistically, gay female couples have more drama, breakup, and dead bedrooms than heterosexual relationships.

Why are there so many women who stand by their men specifically during times where he fucks up?

IMO, it is rare that the woman will stay during a long term issue without privately cheating. There are some rare strong women who stick out difficult times and show great loyalty. I personally know some and think very highly of them. However, although they may stick it out, they do not retain a good level of sexual attraction for their spouses at this time. That is an important factor of the relationship and should not be forgotten when viewing intact marriages going through difficulties.

Life itself isn't always positive and playful. Nobody can take the burden of creating such an illusion.

I agree. The main thing is not to remain in a state of negativity. It is also important to be proactive and avoid wallowing in worries. If you admit you are upset but you follow that up with something hopeful or a plan to better the situation, then you'll usually get through fine. But if you fall apart in front of your wife and expect her to carry you through your difficult times, beware. She will lose attraction for you. She may still stay, though.

This whole "Hold your frame!" can only end in burn out, depression, major frustration and in the worst cases a violent outburst. Or a total mental sclerosis.

It's not about being fake or holding your breath while the bad times pass. It's about developing true mental grit and being strong. Of course, strength is revealed in various forms and is not all about machismo. Sometimes you do just have to weather the storms, beaten down by life, but striving to grow again after the storm has passed. Sometimes shit happens. Many wives are not waiting for their first opportunity to stab their husbands in the back. But over time, things add up, for good or bad. Sometimes one weakness too many tips the scale against you.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I want to add something that is often recommended by Blue Pillers. It is frequently said to never stop dating your wife. Do you know what that means? It doesn't mean going to a restaurant once a week. It means always put your best foot forward, don't whine in conversations, pay her positive and playful attention, etc. This is something both men and women talk about in Blue Pill articles and it means pretty much exactly what is being said in this thread.

[–]ktappe 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Statistically, male gay couples are more prone to either cheating or allowing an open relationship. Statistically, gay female couples have more drama, breakup, and dead bedrooms than heterosexual relationships.

Do you have any evidence at all to back up these claims? Because it honestly sounds like you're talking out your butt.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've read studies on this, yes. I don't have them at my fingertips, since I read, absorb, and move on. But I'm sure you could do a little Googling.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I think you're ignoring the fact that a lot of guys here have a pretty substantial level of experience with how "bluepill" behavior literally ends a relationship overnight. I've experienced it enough times myself to know that if you hang your ass out there for the "true partnership" you're essentially putting the relationship up for sale.

Is this true in all cases? no, we know it's not true in all cases. Of course there are people out there making "true partnership" LTRs work. However my own experience would lead me to believe these are the minority. And the ones that really do exist only exist because the man has totally surrendered to the woman's dominance (which is fine for them, whatever).

I'm hardly a kid and I think TRP isn't juvenile. It's really interesting in fact. Granted that the people working on this aren't Ph.D. sociologists but they're on to something and it isn't just teen angst. Your point about running experiments on a partner hits hard. I don't think anyone really wants to have to do that but if you pay attention to what's being said here it's related to past failures and seeking future success. The only way to do that is to try different strategies.

If there was One True Way i think we'd all happily follow it. But there isn't, life is an ongoing experiment that we're all actively participating in. A girl once said to me, "you know how many guy friends I have Jerry? Too many." It lingered in my head long after she said it. It struck me even back then that she was trying to pry open a lid with a noodle and getting frustrated that the noodle wasn't working. If something isn't working, try a new tool. Better yet, try a new toolset provided by people who claim the toolset works. Even better, try it just once or twice and see how it goes.

Is this experimenting? It is...but the alternative is you, a lid and a noodle.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

However my own experience would lead me to believe these are the minority.

I don't really care for statistics and probabilities when it comes to my personal life. My life is not a business operation that i tweak for maximized benefit constantly. I have certain standards, expectations and ethics. I'd rather have no relationship than one where i'd have to come to this conclusion:

My girl is basically a subservient

It seems like the red pill stance was a full success here. With devastating effect. And this is pretty much expectable. Only if you are content with a very limited form of human interaction can you ever be satisfied with the outcome.

they're on to something and it isn't just teen angst. Your point about running experiments on a partner hits hard. I don't think anyone really wants to have to do that but if you pay attention to what's being said here it's related to past failures and seeking future success. The only way to do that is to try different strategies.

Now this is interesting. Your post in general shows a glimpse of a side of TRP that is arguably a positive thing (self improvement, learning, adjusting yourself). The big question is this: why does this search for a new approach have to be combined with countless hilariously wrong statements about women? (women can't..., women are ..., women can never ...) With disregard for basic human rights?

EVERYBODY has these past failures. Building a waterproof philosophy around extremely simplified and partly hateful assumptions about women is not going to help. It just means amputating a part of life.

With my earlier relationships there were things that didn't work out. And there are indeed thoughts that seem to be mainly induced by feminism. And yes: sometimes you can observe patterns in the behaviour of women that make you think twice. These are simply due to the fact that humans in general have a very limited consciousness and are not mere rational beings. It is extremely naive to think only women act irrationally. I can observe the irrational behaviour of men on a daily basis. It's simply human. What's left are subconscious patterns that are mainly determined by social expectations. Learned behaviour.

I will do experiments in my next relationship as well. One of the most important parts: i will not be shamed for my sex drive! I've had enough of that. But it is something i'll do for myself, by myself. Not an elaborate strategy to provoke a certain reaction from a woman. Here i reach a point where it becomes personal: there are issues. There is typical female behaviour that is worth discussing. It's just that a group like TRP is a major obstacle for this. Nobody is going to take these things serious as long as the proponents are frustrated, aggressive men, screaming at the top of their lungs: "Women are evil witches who want to trick you into providing for them." That's just the manifestation of a huge blind spot regarding the own role in the game. It's not going to help.

To give you another glimpse of my personal perspective: i come from a quite "feminist" household. A strong mother, a quiet, reserved and introvert father, three sisters. I am a prime example of an indoctrinated beta who doesn't even know he is indoctrinated, if you stay inside TRP universe. And yes: feminism had an influence on my upbringing. It's just that i have mainly profited from this. What's really causing me problems is the relative lack of modern, positive images of manliness. The important part here is "modern". These questions need to be approached with a positive manner. These things need time. One could say people like me are way beyond TRP philosophy. There is no going back to relatively simple images of a strong, unfazed, manly man. If someone else finds his salvation with this way: fine. it's not my path. (edit: i want to add here that there are good reasons to antiquate traditional concepts of manliness. Aggression and "problem-solving" with violence are a lingering, almost inherent parts of these images. That's not something i want. Not because i am indoctrinated by feminism but because i don't like a fist in my face and war sucks. So many conflicts are ultimately possible because men either actively disconnect themselves from their compassionate side or have never learned that there is something else. So much suffering is linked to a limited concept of manliness)

Imo things like TRP are merely the painful, confused and embarrassing beginnings of a men's movement that can be taken serious. Exactly in the same way as there have been feminist groups that were quite awkward, stupid and fanatic. The storm passed, western societies kind of reached a consensus, real progress has been made. And like always there are fringe groups (tumblr-feminism, SJW). Something similar will happen for men's issues. There is a good chance it will take another hundred years. If TRP can get a grip and leave it's violent fringes behind it might even be able to contribute to this. Otherwise it will only be remembered as an obscure, short lived hate-group that inspired a number of college shootings by frustrated young men.

[–]ogrethebuffoon 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This brings up a false dichotomy in some ways.

You can still maintain frame and have a genuine connection with someone.

Having a genuine connection as a masculine man with a feminine women does NOT mean that you show vulnerability to her. It means penetrating her in all ways.

If you want to open up and be vulnerable with someone, that's what your family, friends, and coaches/therapists are for.

You aren't trying to fuck those people and maintain a passionate balance of opposite energies with them.

Of course, you should probably sprinkle in some beta tears to make yourself LTR material to the women you're interested in, but you should be the pure masculine alpha 95% of the time otherwise you're going to lose them.

It sounds like you just need some male friends to talk to about your problems.

Your emotional needs aren't being completely met so you've invested yourself in the unicorn fantasy as a glimmer of hope. Satisfy your emotional needs outside of the women you fuck and you won't care about unicorns. In fact, if and when a real unicorn does come along, you will be in a much better position to attract her because you won't be coming from a needy, desperate place.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your emotional needs aren't being completely met so you've invested yourself in the unicorn fantasy as a glimmer of hope. Satisfy your emotional needs outside of the women you fuck and you won't care about unicorns.

This is a great line and a good thing to remind yourself if/when you feel like you're falling into oneitis for a chick.

[–]Armonsters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What you think and see in your mind you will become. If it is not making you happy as a person who cares if it's supposed too. TRP is right about a lot of things but does that mean it makes my life better always to subscribe to it? No in cases like that it's best to do what truly makes you happy, if you're a beta at heart who cares if it isn't "possible" who cares as long as you are your primary concern and are happy you're good. Putting pussy on a pedestal is still occurring if your whole game plan is to create subservience because you're still focusing on it more than anything else.

[–]soulmatter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The love you desire originated from your mother's love. And that's something that another woman can never provide for you. Internalize that the only love you'll get out of your woman is the one she'll give to the kids that you provide her. She may desire to keep you interested in her in an emulation of what you think of love, but she won't love you the way you love her. A man's love is different than a woman's love. Her true love is reserved for her children.

[–]favourthebold 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm glad I read this. Since I got blocked on facebook by a girl I 'loved' I really don't ever think like this anymore. Your girl sounds awesome. I really have no idea why people even want a relationship. If you can get laid without one, why would you want a girlfriend.

I have like zero interest in a girl 'understanding me' haha. Who gives a fuck. Quite grateful for that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

In theory, the unicorn you want does exist.

Keep in mind that RedPill theory bases itself on most of the population, and predicts the most likely event/outcome. 95%+ of women can be adequately analyzed using RedPill theory. However, there are those women that deviate from the rules, but they are rare, and you usually find them doing research in a lab or some extremely specialized job.

I work in the medical field, and I can tell you that I have seen good looking and very intelligent women dating/married to beta men, who have never been with an "alpha", nor are they into them, and are perfectly happy with their lives and husbands. These are the women who literally want a companion who can challenge them mentally, etc., but even in my field they are uncommon.

Anyways, you won't be finding these women in clubs or bars, and rarely will you see them out shopping. They're usually working or reading or enjoy some quirky hobby.

[–]upvotes2doge 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Damn, the number of minds you just blew...

[–]drowninginfootwear 1 point2 points  (0 children)

These commenters are overreacting. It is correct to want what you want. Don't live your life based on the red pill, or any one philosophy for that matter.

The stuff on this reddit is good to internalize, which you have. It has let you become a better man, with more successful relationships. You don't need to stick around and keep pounding it into your head. You're done, you've graduated.

Now you can use what you've learned in your real life, without feeling the need to come here every day and let the constant parade of hopeless, pathetic, bitter, resentfulness dull your mind.

You CAN find love. You CAN find a woman who cares about you. Any one on here who is saying otherwise is either missing the point of the red pill entirely, or still in it's early stages.

[–]bananashammock 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe you want to truly open yourself up to someone that does the same to you. So that you know everything about each other and there's no fear, it's all alright. That stuff isn't just a fantasy. There are many people that have that. Don't play stupid fucking games and worry about control over a loved one. For fuck's sake, thats for insecure teenagers. And so is that thought of a unicorn, or one true soulmate, or whatever.

[–]raralala99[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

where can I read up on maintaining "frame?"

[–]othereal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Out of Frame out of Mind

A nice thought I have been bouncing around in my head today.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you have the concentration I really recommend reading my newest piece. It addresses the BP fantasy that like OP, most men struggle to come to terms with, and then some.

[–]ThisIsMyLulzyAccount 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok, I'm relatively new to TRP, but what the actual fuck is going on in these comments? The guy just wants a woman he can be exposed with; he wants a girl he can fundamentally trust and respect as a human, or at least that's what I see in his post- unconditional love from a mate who loves him for him and not for what he can provide.

And everyone is saying that this is a complete fantasy? What? I must be missing something, please, what am I not getting here? I thought this was relatively common. My gf and I have been going out for almost 3 years and I don't have to put up a strong front for her, and she doesn't put on a front for me, we're honest with each other and shit works out fine.

Though to his comments about his girlfriend, it is the same reason I switched from trying to be alpha to being what I really am; omega. This guy might be similar. You don't want a toy, there is no humanity in a toy, nothing deserving of love in something that is completely receptive-- to have a gf that you can order around completely is pointless, why not just have a robot? Maybe it is just me here, and tell me if it is, but having a completely submissive partner is, to me, kind of pointless.

To me it sounds like this guy needs to break it off and find someone who loves him for him, not someone who only loves him as a provider/protector.

[–]Dubsland12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You want a guy. Emotionally at least.

[–]HalfysReddit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dude here's the harsh truth - you're looking for the love you received from your mother, and that shit ain't gonna happen.

I'm talking about that unconditional love. The love you got just because you existed, not because of how you made the other party feel.

Don't believe me? Read your own words:

I want a woman who will love me for me, who will keep loving me if were to lose everything, if I stopped making her feel secure, if I stopped giving her the tinglies, if I lost frame.

Would you love a woman who didn't provide what you wanted out of the relationship? If she didn't make you feel secure, if she didn't give you any tingles, if she didn't in some way improve your quality of life? No, of course not. Unless maybe she was your daughter.

[–]SlutRapunzel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey. I'm probably the only one in this community who thinks it, but...

You can get it. The whole package. It includes compromise and throwing down walls and sacrifice, but it's there.

Never give up.

[–]prodigyx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No one said it would be easy. None of the things worth doing in life are easy.

[–]zenswag 2 points3 points  (1 child)

How the hell does this have so much karma? Is beta bitching really this valuable?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it is if we encourage them and I don't mean insulting them and call them beta. It's one thing to have this information and entirely another to put it into practice.

I keep seeing that you can't tell this shit to women you're in relationships with because that would be displaying weakness. Male friends probably won't understand if they are like most of the population. So who does that leave? /r/TheRedPill, that's who.

[–]ezlove8 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Man if you're not happy in a relationship, get out if it. Be a fucking man and make your own decisions, don't just come to the internet and bitch about it. Just because some bros on the internet say something isn't possible doesn't make it so. It's your life, do what you want with it, don't settle for bullshit. There may not be the perfect person out there but there sure has to be someone close, and I'm sure as hell not gonna let some dude sitting behind a computer tell me that there isn't. "I'm a beta at heart," you don't have to label yourself as alpha or beta or shit, you are you. You know what makes you happy and life worth living. If you're just gonna live in a world of this pseudo-happiness some comments talk about, then what's the point of staying alive?

That being said, I love the red pill, but everything on here needs to be read with a grain of salt. I think that it is a mindset every guy should have when approaching women, but it shouldn't be used to determine your happiness. Use the red pill to help you find and establish a relationship that makes you happy, but don't let it run your life.

[–]Indeed_suh 1 point2 points  (10 children)

As a woman who reads this sub, Im curious if now is the time to ask a question ive been pondering.

Does taking the red pill bring women in to your life who satisfy that deep inner yearning of attracting your beloved life partner?

Because what you described above is what Ive 'told the universe' that I want to attract... a man who lives that way and who can be man enough to say it.

I do agree it is attractive and something carnal is woken up inside me when a man holds his frame and takes the lead when the situation calls, but at the core of it all, I would still stay attracted to a man who showed me that when the time came, he was powerful, even if he was vulnerable when we shared our bed.

Does that make me some sort of Unicorn? I dont even know what that means. Arent we all looking for a unicorn of some sort? That person who you know exists because you feel them existing at your core. That person.

Don't most of us want someone who makes a decision to stay because they simply couldnt imagine their life with anyone else? Not because of money, or status or excessive perfection or stellar good looks or power or AMOG or whatever... but because that person gets you. She notices when your energy changes because you were disrespected and she listens to you share your darkest secret places and she cheerleads your victories and appreciates the effort put in to your defeats. She is respectful and appreciative, powerfully feminine yet delicate and capable of following your lead.

That is the woman I am.

Who will I attract? Should I change that because the men in this sub or the men elsewhere wouldnt like it?

Would I do best with an Alpha or a Beta? I read this sub and still have no idea.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Does that make me some sort of Unicorn? I dont even know what that means. Arent we all looking for a unicorn of some sort? That person who you know exists because you feel them existing at your core. That person.

...I don't knw what type of world you are living in... I've never felt that sort of stuff. Thats the epitome of blue pill for us men. Women tend to have the "right guy" syndrome. Thats what lads to so many divorces in the USA.

[–]Indeed_suh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting. I never thought of it like that. I guess I would simply like to be with my complimentary opposite. Whatever that means energy wise.

[–]Wordshark 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Anonymous stranger, drifting past. I'm not a regular here, but I think one of their basic wisdoms is to watch what women do, not what they say they want. Have you considered that what you believe you desire might be at conflict with what actually gives you happiness?

[–]Indeed_suh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting. I suppose that could be? However, if I look back.. the men who I stayed with the longest were easy going and emotionally mature, wanting to be peaceful and loving most of the time. Its nice when its just easy. Easy to talk, easy to be honest, easy to share dark parts, etc.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

There's something about what you said, the line: "Does that make me some sort of Unicorn? I dont even know what that means. Arent we all looking for a unicorn of some sort? That person who you know exists because you feel them existing at your core. That person." It's a very romantic concept. One we all believe is false, but I think we wish it was true.

It reminds me of Howard Roark and Dominique Francon's love in The Fountainhead. I don't know why, but it does. Two independent people who understand that a man's ego is the fountainhead of all progress, and they're inexplicably drawn toward each other.

Ultimately, they're a work of fiction. They represent ideals that Rand uses to discuss her philosophy, which happens to be one that I embrace. But Howard and Dominique are fiction, and I think most of us have resigned ourselves to thinking that what you described is fiction as well.

[–]Indeed_suh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hm. I guess I was more ranting than anything.. but yes that does make sense. Though I do disagree with you about one piece of your response.

Part of me, deep down, believes that a wonderful relationship is not fiction. That a man who compliments my energy, whether that be more alpha or more beta, and who genuinely enjoys what we choose to create, cherish and maintain together as a couple, does in fact exist and will manage to bump in to me one day in a random moment where our lives intersect. I figure we will start talking and wont want to stop... Is that ridiculous?

[–]favourthebold -1 points0 points  (2 children)

In my experience, I don't have that inner yearning. I'm glad for it because I am free now.

I did a lot of healing and work on myself. So whatever people have that needs to be healed, that they think their partner will somehow make them complete. I don't have anymore.

So I feel like, no matter how much I love the girl, I could quite happily leave at any moment and be fine. I don't need a girl anymore.

So with that kind of foundation, it's pretty easy for me to live in a way where I do things my way. Thank god. I'm so grateful for that. Cos I desperately needed girls to like me once. That's not a good way to live.

Alpha vs Beta. Alpha you get to be in love but have less/no control. Beta you get to be in control, but you won't be in love and probably not attracted to him. I think it's more natural for a woman to love the guy and have less control, but it seems western women's ego won't suffer that these days.

There's a question on OKCupid that says 'Should the man be the head of the household?' I think that's one of the most revealing questions on there. If a woman says it should be an equal partnership, that's exactly the kind of woman I don't want.

That's why Asian girls are so refreshing, I've asked Asian girls I've dated if the man should be in charge and they just go 'of course'. As if it's a stupid question.

I am very glad girls like that exist. I thought I'd have to argue with girls who didn't respect me my whole life.

[–]Indeed_suh 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I agree with you. I prefer being in the passenger seat of my relationship with a man. When I have to drive, I feel frustrated. So perhaps that makes me beta. Hm. Thank you for your honesty. Definitely something to think about..

[–]favourthebold 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It probably makes you a woman :)

[–]j0hnan0n 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Go ahead, Cypher. We won't miss you. You're free to swallow the blue pill and re-enter the matrix whenever you want.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

How the hell this post got 500 upvote and gold ?

[–]nofaprecommender 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Because this sub is Beta Central, lol

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It became beta central, 4 months ago , we got real stuff. w/e

[–]Indianbro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its a lot better you chose to swallow it man. Now you know your own weaknesses and can only use that to your advantage. Keep up the chase and who knows what may happen in the future. You control it.

[–]garlicextract 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can go back. Back to how it all was before. You just have to trade sex, for the Blue Pill. It's your choice.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is real? How do you define real? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.

I know what your thinking because I have been thinking it ever since I got here. Why oh why didn't I take the Blue Pill.

Because...

When you realize that you will understand the deeper reality...There IS no spoon.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I had a similar moment the other day when I pulled some dread game on my girl and was borderline disgusted at how well it works; the idealist in me wants to believe that you shouldn't have to do things like that to keep a woman's affections. Like you I want to relapse into my cozy inner beta and believe that I'll find a woman who will love me unconditionally but I know that to be a myth.

Ultimately, we all have a cypher moment. Even the reddest of the redpillers, relapse into being beta every now and again. For me the redpill is a blessing and a curse at the same time. While the reality of it hurts at first, I can easily say my relationships are better then ever before. However, as someone who is still killing the beta inside, dealing with women often feels like work because I have to think about everything I do and say. However there comes a point where it's all natural, and you'll ooze redpill without even thinking about. That day will come, just stick with it.

[–]sk_nameless 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your only other option is where some of us have chosen to go - eschew relationships, and focus on improving yourself and finding internal fulfillment.

I know how you feel, because I was there once. You might find your unicorn, but let me stress the near-impossibility of it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Uh. Who doesn't want to be himself? I'm honest with myself, at least on here and with my closest relatives.

I have many vulnerabilities. I try to be red pill 24/7/365 because nobody wants to hear me whine, which I realized recently. It's tough. So I show that side of myself to my family and I hide it with my friends. I was scared, I graduated, I'm scared of not having a job, no money, and being unsuccessful. I just started... Doing something about it, and it changed me for the better.

I'm better with women, and money. But I'm still not myself.

[–]FullMetalSolidSnake 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Would you rather be yourself than a trp

[–]JacksterTO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OP, I understand what you are saying perfectly. Over the past while thru real life experiences and thru this sub-reddit I've learned a lot about the interactions between men and women. And while some people in this sub may go on an angry rant here and there... most of what is said in this group is very true.

My interactions with women have gone a lot better since taking the red pill but deep down inside sometimes I wish certain things weren't true. You'd like to live in that fantasy where if you are nice to woman... they'll be nice to you in return... just because it's the "right thing to do". But unfortunately that is not real life and like it or not we have to realize this is not how the world works.

[–]Gstreetshit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everyone knows you can't go back once you've been redpilled.

Maybe there are unicorns out there, but they are so rare you would have just as good of a chance of finding an actual unicorn.

No one said the truth would be easy. Life is a bitch and then you die.

Try to die with your honor and dignity in tact.

[–]1kick6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And this, sir, is why we use the red pill metaphor in the first place. You are a Cypher, you want plugged back in. this has been discussed in the greater manosphere before

[–]joaquim56 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You haven't entered the Acceptance phase. Roissy's now Heartiste tagline, "where pretty lies perish" is apt for you. It's difficult to accept at first, but it takes time.

[–]cikatomo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only now, you are on your way to become real, not fake alpha. Keep on going.

[–]flatox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I want a woman who will love me for me, who will keep loving me if were to lose everything, if I stopped making her feel secure, if I stopped giving her the tinglies, if I lost frame.

Mate, i think we all wish this were how things worked out. But we know it's not, and it sucks. But that's just the sad truth.

At least we now know how to use it in our favor.

[–]elevul 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Give it a decade and you'll have it. Matrix is coming, and in there you can have everything you want, including that.

You might discover that's not what you really want, though...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

[–]Mike_The_Bike 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not once did I see you show how you provided for her, she's doing a lot for her at least do the same for her to be mutually happy

[–]1AlienSunrise 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That ignorance will lead to nothing but heartache in the end. The truth is harsh, but it is essential.

[–]Gayburn_Wright 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like this post. It opened my eyes to the red pill and the people who swallowed it.

[–]Oh_FuFu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would someone mind explaining the dread game?

[–]othereal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess we all have our own "unicorns"....it's like a Holy Grail metaphor :)

[–]conradaiken 0 points1 point  (0 children)

[–]NinGenShinRa 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I feel the same. But it never ends. Three years ago I started a relationship with all the best premises: being alpha, holding the frame, leading the road. She was a strong one, but she was dominated: and she loved it.

I kept this frame really strong for almost three years. She loved me wholeheartedly. We had amazing sex. We were going to get married.

We went through a lot of things together: we lived in 4 different countries. We lived in a caravan. We travelled and had adventures.

I thought, at that point, she loved me unconditionally. I was wrong.

I had a hard time the past six months. I was emotionally down. I thought for all the times she could count on me… I thought I could just let go and count on her. Afford to be weak.

She left me.

It was devastating not only because I was already down, and because I loved her truly unconditionally, through thick and thin. But because it showed me with extreme clarity what you are struggling with right now: the Game never ends.

[–]liftweights 2 points3 points  (0 children)

the game never ends

the mouth of The Lord has spoken, amen

[–]Gravityflexo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good for you, all this red pill shit is for dipshit douche bags any how. The thing is that they know that and think it's something to be proud of, I just don't get it. Treating relationships with how-to guides and instructions, it's just so lame.

[–]donit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't have a choice. You are male/alpha and women are female/beta. You can't just opt out of it, it's the law of the land. Trying to get a female to accept your being beta is like trying to ride a bicycle backward. The female gears just don't naturally bend that way.

[–]Ob1Kn00b 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sadly, you can't really return to your previous state of bliss, but it is worth noting that reality isn't n ecessarily as bad as you think. You can still be a kind, generous, and nurturing lover for your wife.

You just have to do it as a kind man, not a nice guy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These fantasies are just another obstacle, another challenge, another thing to be explored and manipulated-- when the pain goes on long enough and intensely enough, and it becomes a kind of existential background, its like soil for that transhumanist response. In time we will either eliminate this fantasy altogether through understanding of biology, attachment theory, and behavior, or create this fantasy using technology, and this requires men to cope by thinking about, talking about, and working on these things. Where the best option, the most evolved and learned, is to seek all ethical options.

[–]GOthee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats life mate, rty to find wha tyou want inside your girl, and if u cant... Teach mr how to find puzzy and we can find you a new girl in bars or places.

[–]Kalepsis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She doesn't exist.

Unless you take after a cartoon doctor named Krieger, and create her yourself.

[–]deschutron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The red pill is knowledge. How can you reject it?

If you want a better life, you have to give up, or seek further knowledge.

As others here have pointed out, ignorance is fake bliss - you think you can succeed and then wonder why you don't.

If you want that good life enough then maybe you should keep studying.

There might be more human behavioural mechanics you don't know about. The Red Pill is new. We have recently entered a new era in our ability to discuss relationships. Do you think we know it all now?

If your imagined good life is possible then look for it.

If it isn't then get the proof so you can focus on coping, and quickly show the next man why he should too.

It hurts to study the unknown, but if you're going to hurt anyway, then it's a reasonable option.

[–]krystyin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Go ahead lots of people do and end up with /r/deadbedrooms

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (2 children)

As an occultist I still believe this is possible. I am not in a position to try yet but I will.

The fact is 99% of the population have no idea what love is, current society is not structured so that we can discover it easily.

IF you want to try, an experiment, read about chakras, you have to open your heart, what you imagine opening your heart is exactly what you have to do. (Tantra is something different, don't bother with it)

Some stupid sluts think sex is separate from love, they could not be more retarded, love is a deeper connection in sex. Sex is a mingling of energies where you can pour love into it.

The mission is to get her to love you, if she moves from her self-centered nature and lost into you.

A WARNING here is that you might fall(there is a reason we "fall" in love) in love in one way relationship, it is very dangerous and essential that she should reciprocate or you will be stuck as a beta whipboy for some time, love is like acid to frames.

You would need to meditate alone and self love(love yourself) to compensate, remember the mission is to make her fall in love.

[–]liftweights -1 points0 points  (1 child)

occultist? sorry for killing your brothers in diablo 3

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No problem, diablo always gets his due.

What you thought you killed him? so was the fuckers in 1 and 2

He will be back.

[–]nofaprecommender 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I want a woman who will love me for me,

The idea of someone loving you "for you" is kind of an empty concept. What does that mean? No one can love you for your thoughts and your inner mind, because in this world we don't get to share that with each other. Maybe one day we will make telepathy work, but even then there will be many limitations and incomplete information. So what does it mean to "love me for me"? That's just an empty concept which was invented by the TV and put in your mind. Do you really love any woman "for herself"? If you really thought about it, you would realize that she has certain qualities which you love, but those are not her "self." Accept the world for what it is.

who will keep loving me if were to lose everything, if I stopped making her feel secure, if I stopped giving her the tinglies, if I lost frame.

For the rest of these standards, would you do the same? Do you have love for the homeless and the poorest members of society who have lost everything? Would you love a girl whose behavior amplified or ignored your insecurities? Would you love her the same if she gained 50 pounds, all around her belly and her tits and ass stayed the same size? That's basically equivalent to a permanent loss of frame. If you are really like this selfless, amazing, charitable person, who loves everyone unconditionally, then maybe you are right to be disappointed in your unmet expectations. But I think that you probably are just a regular guy, and you were misled by the hopes and expectations of other members of society who control mass communications, and the best thing to do is get over it in whatever way you can. Don't pine for an imaginary reality that never existed, just keep your head up and keep moving on. Make yourself in the kind of person who doesn't lose frame, because you are your frame. Make yourself in the kind of person who doesn't lose everything, because you don't have all your eggs in one basket. Make yourself into the kind of person who always gives her tingles, because don't you want her to always be sexy for you?

Stop fantasizing and pining for fantasies and wake up. It's really the best thing for you and for everybody. The less lies we all cling to, the better this world will be for everyone.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Men want to be lazy. We want to believe the lies.

[–]GBBL[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why is everyone here always so down about finding the perfect girl? In my experience the perfect girl comes along when you stop looking for her. So stop trying parlor tricks to get women if you want to find one who loves you for who you are.

[–]yeahweewee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

there are people who act "RP" without ever reading about it, its natural for them no acting no keeping their guard up no keeping frame, because their frame is just being themselves

anyone can get to that point, "fake it till you make it" is scientifically proven, so your still faking rp, so of course its not that enjoyable when you believe your a "beta" at heart, let that go your not anything at heart, personality are extremely malleable

[–]tyranus89 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I've often thought that part of TRP is bringing an alpha mindset to those who otherwise wouldn't have had one. Surely, some are naturally inclined to a beta lifestyle, whereas others are raised as such (nature and nurture).

Thus, we should have a system/plan for overcoming the beta mindset. I don't want this to sound like a concern troll, I just don't have a solution right now. I'd like to encourage others to think about this, and let's hear some suggestions. Danger and Play is a great resource, and I've personally found the podcasts to be especially useful for mindset and state control.

On a related note, OP, it may be that you simply haven't had enough time living TRP for it to be second nature to your mindset. Not sure how long it's been for you, but a similar experience occurs after people swallow the red pill of atheism -- they yearn for the comfort that religiosity brought them. However, with time, they come to embrace atheism for it's beauty... It may just take even more time for you. The key to this is constantly realizing that the world you yearn for is a fantasy. You might as well be just as upset that you aren't telekinetic. Start trying to embrace the pros of TRP, and you'll find comfort in it.

[–]Dreamtrain 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It's why I always tell guys to learn to be selfish, because I have the same issue too, and it's one of the things that help me have some footing and not fall into the old "What would she like me to do for her?" mindset I have pretty ingrained in me.

That along with lifting and having a hobbies in which you are periodically increasing your proficiency and mastery adds on to your confidence.

[–]tyranus89 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think there's a difference between selfishness and self-interest. Everyone acts out of self-interest, always. Selfishness is thinking only about yourself.

There's a story about Thomas Jefferson being on a train, explaining this premise to someone. Then, he sees baby pigs drowning in a lake, demands that the train be stopped, and saves them. When he returns, his companion questions: "How was that acting in self-interest?" He replies, "If I didn't do something, they would have weighed on my conscience all week."

Selfishness is considering only your feelings/outcome, etc. An example I've given before is that of a friend needing a ride to the airport on a day where you have no plans. If you think to yourself "ah, that's annoying, I'd have to drive for like an hour, so I'm not going to do it," then you're going about it wrong.

While being selfish will definitely work, it's an easy, immoral way to go about it. You'll be a better man if you live virtuously. I'd rather be a good person and live TRP than had to have "dealt with it" by being a prick.

At the same time, while lifting and hobbies are a big part of TRP, and their subsequent progress lends a lot to one's confidence, I don't think they should be used as an escape from the reality of the situation, i.e. to forget how the world is. The only way someone like OP will overcome this latent betaification is to face it head-on.

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[–]Apollo1982 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Iron Rule of Tomassi #6

I.E. Read The Sidebar.

[–]WindowsDoctor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get it man. Trust me, I really do get it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unicorns do exist. I have found one.

[–]bangwhimper -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

If your girl doesn't want to be with you when you "lose frame" or show insecurities, get out. Go. Walk away.

The Red Pill is bullshit, friend. My relationship is proof that TRP's unbending, evopsych-based theories are bunk. This woman has helped me through so much -- so fucking much -- and our relationship, after six years of being totally, utterly, uncompromisingly honest with one another, of being there for each other in all manner of crises, is much, much stronger than any relationship I've seen an "alpha" try to carry out. Because our relationship is built on shared humanity, on love for one another, on genuine care and sincerity -- not on "game," not on manipulation, not on coercion or fear or any of the other bullshit TRP espouses.

As long as you're TRPing, no woman will love you for who you are. TRPing is a self-fulfilling prophecy: treat people like shit, and of course they won't be unconditional lovers.

Abandon this nonsense. Give a shit. Be an empathetic human being. You will be astounded at the ways in which people can build solid, beautiful, wonderful relationships without resorting to abuse, disdain, control, and utter psychopathy.

Goodnight, TRP. I'm sure I'll be banned for this.

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[–]bangwhimper -1 points0 points  (1 child)

What exactly am I missing then? I've spent a lot of time watching this sub, out of sheer morbid curiosity. In not a fly-by-night commenter. What have I misinterpreted?

[–]FallenHighSchoolJock -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

Typical nonsense spewed by a woman. Yeah they'll be selfless and uncompromising with you. If you look like a male model.

[–]bangwhimper 1 point2 points  (1 child)

And that, my friend, is exactly why no one would love you as you are. So hateful, so abusive, so self-centered and self-victimized. Who would want to be with someone like that?

For the record, I am not a woman, an I don't look like a male model. And yet, being a decent human being has worked out well for me.

Imagine that.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Dude, and I was really unsure myself until you assured us of that you possess a pair of balls, at least marginally, the facts are you don't understand.

Nothing in TRP says you should be abusive, show disdain, or be psychopathic lacking empathy if you want a good LTR. Please go away until you have read the sidebar.

Are we saying that you can behave in this way in order to get laid? Yep. What you talk about DOES work on random girls and pickups but not so much in LTR's, although adding a little Alpha asshole works wonders where the sex has dropped off in a LTR. Is there a common theme here?

You just refuse to accept the true nature of the vast majority of women based on your Six year sample of 1.

[–]Ohmyqueef -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The soul that remains in ignorance cannot evolve. You've evolved now, there is no going back. You need to keep moving.

[–]Merica911 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well it's easy to want that from a third world girlfriend... Don't everyone down vote me all at once (:

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's messed up game that we have to play, but theres no use whining about the game. Just say fuck Em and play anyway.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

You're insane if you think some guys on the internet have social interaction debunked to a science.

edit: i'm not a feminist or a "blue piller." my idealogy leans more towards this subreddit, but i think taking everything perpetuated by this sub as literal is a bad attitude to have.

[–]cashmoney_x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Debunked? You mean reduced?

[–]Average_Black_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

but i think taking everything perpetuated by this sub as literal is a bad attitude to have.

Maybe if you want to lose your balls. Explain your reasoning

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Nope, not a science. Just the collective observations of thousand and tens of thousands of men figuring out what works and what doesn't work. Unless their all insane.

[–]agirlindenver -3 points-2 points  (4 children)

i'm a girl (hi) and i was banned from this subreddit on a previous username, but i meant no disrespect so i'll tread lightly here.

i think both men AND women were done a disservice by the popular gender-neutral approach that our parents/teachers/media have propagated in the past few decades. from the moment we differentiate in utero, men and women develop gender-specific (often complementary) traits, strengths, weaknesses, and biological imperatives. these differences carry us through life, lead us to seek different kinds of stimulation and pleasure, and ultimately lead us back to one another. the differences are fascinating and not to be underestimated. they also present us with very different challenges in this world, and i agree that men are given less of a voice in this culture to identify as victims of the system than women are.

there's something to be said for discovering and strengthening the attributes that make us valuable to the opposite sex and powerful in our own lives, and TRP does this very well. i was raised in a very blue-pill household (mother is a judge, father is a musician) and my brother and i were essentially treated as a genderless unit. i had to teach myself how to dress and wear makeup, because my mom found those things to be incredibly trivial. it wasn't until i got to high school and "grew into my looks" that i realized how powerful and exciting female beauty can be. i had boyfriends even though my mother thought girls who dated young were stupid, and i was nominated to prom and homecoming court which she openly scoffed. i had to actively suppress my conditioning as a gender-free being and seize my identity and sexuality as a female in spite of it. in this way, i have compassion for you guys and can relate.

it's a shame that our culture is unable to recognize the differences between the genders without also ascribing status to those differences. and i think the real shame of TRP (and what OP wants to reject) is that it treats complicated heterosexual relationships as an "either/or" game filled with mutually exclusive rules. alpha or beta. dread games or doormat. i swallowed TRP (as a female) for a few months, spouted it off to my friends for a while, and then realized i just don't buy it. there IS truth here. i think a lot can be learned from some of these strategies. but OP, you can take what you've learned from this ideology (and your current relationship) and use those tactics as you move forward, and toward a more rewarding romantic and sexual relationship. we are all fumbling toward that balance, men and women alike. we have all been hurt, abused, taken for granted, had the rug pulled out from under us.. and perhaps we have all found ourselves on the other side, holding too much power over another person, closed off, unfulfilled. i'm not a big fan of either of those scenarios, are you? call me crazy but i wholeheartedly believe in option 3. it's not the redpill, it's not hyper feminism, it's reality! complicated, delicate, gray-area-with-no-instruction-manual reality. good luck :~)

[–]nofaprecommender -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Great post. Not sure why you got downvoted, probably cuz you're a girl and you have cooties. :p

[–]TestosteroneFilled 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because she started with "I'm a girl(hi)". We don't need useless bullshit like that.