Dealing With Beta Friends

“AZ” wrote:

I am rooming with one of my buddies from college and we go all the way back to freshman year. I am from [foreign country] and I started college when I was 17, and as I grew older I began to act more like a man, but my buddy has not. He will talk for hours on end about inconsequential shit, how this 6 looked at him, and how he wants to pound crotch all day long etc, yet does nothing about it. What is driving me to the edge here and making me write this email is that [REDACTED]. At this point I’ve been trying to help him out, introduce him to game, get him to be less of a looser, but I have given up hope.

How do you deal with your beta friends that don’t want to learn? I don’t want to stop the friendship, and I have been trying to avoid him, but we hang out about 2 hours a day. How do I stop myself from cringing in his presence and resenting him for being himself?

If you are going to publish this in the mailbag please omit all personal details.

There were a lot of personal details, so I had to redact a full paragraph worth of juicy beta goodness. Suffice to say, it was nauseatingly bad, involving awkward hugs, egregious service worker tips, and invitations to cheesy strip mall restaurants. On the scale of game acumen, 0 being no game at all and winging it spergy style, and 10 being a Casanova for the ages, AZ’s friend was a -2.

Unfortunately, AZ, women do judge men based on the friends they keep. It is one of the more glaring psychological differences between men and women, and it has evolved for a good reason: men get all they need to know about a potential mate by looking at her for a second, while women need to recruit information about potential mates from a variety of sources, direct and indirect, because a visual impression is not nearly enough to trigger a woman’s full blown attraction for a man.

The ideal alpha projection attraction multiplier (APAM) social circle is a mixed clique of good-looking and socially savvy men and women, where you are the coolest guy among a group of slightly less cool guys, and the girls are hanging on your every word. You want to shine among your friends, but you don’t want to shine on the cheap by surrounding yourself with nerdos. Girls will not give you cunt watering points for being the exasperated leader of a bunch of social rejects.

A good example of what I mean is the movie ‘Swingers’. Jon Favreau’s character is basically a chill, decent guy with some issues connecting with girls. But he’s not so socially inept or teeth-gnashingly clueless that he continually embarrasses his cooler friends. Thus, Vince Vaughn’s character never experiences moments of crisis like you are in your email to me deciding whether or not to sever a friendship entirely for the sake of meeting girls.

I know some of my male readers will complain that a genuine alpha — a real man — never puts hos before bros, but that’s the kind of principled talk that almost always disintegrates in the acid wash of reality. If a male buddy you hang out with regularly is so blockheaded that he’s actually costing you chances to meet girls, you have to decide if the friendship is worth prolonged dry spells. For most men, that answer would be a resounding NO, despite their high-minded rhetoric to the contrary.

You see, a real man, besides having principles, also makes the difficult and unpopular choices. He screens out the losers when building a social circle of friends, and he dumps those who have demonstrated an unwillingness to take the advice of their betters to meet the high standards of the group. Your roommate is not special; there are many guys like him — stubbornly regressive, hopelessly ignorant, constitutionally spastic. A man like that is as much a product of his genes as he is of his environment. Maybe you enjoy his company when it’s just you two LANing it up Quake-style, and maybe he strokes your ego just by being there, nipping at your heels like an orphaned chihuahua. And that’s all good, until it’s time to go out into the real world and you find yourself making up excuses to avoid him. Am I right?

You can play that game for a while, but you’ll feel like crap constantly having to come up with reasons not to hang out with him. That he’s your roommate makes it doubly hard. Avoiding a college roommate is like avoiding your mom when she wants you to mow the lawn and your friends will be over in two minutes with a ride to the beach. Trap doors and escape chutes come to mind.

My advice to you is this: Give your friend one last chance to prove himself worthy of your company. But this requires some sacrifice on your part. Don’t just throw him to the wolves, blindfolded. Bite the bullet. Explain that his social skills suck, that he kills your chances with girls when you two go out together, and that he has to shape up fast if he wants to live the good life. Tough love is what we men are good at. Then offer him some tips, and show him where he’s fucking up. If he can’t abide your conditions for friendship, you have all the moral imperative you need to use him when he’s useful (playing video games) and dispose of him when he’s not (all real world activities). Get used to ignoring him. On your way out the door to parties, learn to visualize him as a lamp, an inanimate object you have no responsibility for placating. In fact, alpha males are skilled in the art of visualizing the vast hordes of male competition as lamps. Steal a page from their playbook.





Comments


  1. put your hat on him when coming back home

    Like


  2. his friend sounds like someone who’s purpose in life is being emo. He’s supposed to live up to failure. He’s not supposed to get laid. That’s his existence that he’s created for himself. Shattering that existence will be very difficult, and if it happens, it could end up badly.

    Like


  3. Maybe this is too passive aggressive, but without criticizing this guy’s shortcomings, I’d try to turn him on to this blog. By de-personalizing a “beta” as some ideal type dork they can both laugh at, hopefully the friend will start to avoid those behaviors, even if he is so lacking in self-awareness to realize that he possesses many of the same traits.

    Like


  4. I would tell him straight up, as Roissy suggested, that he’s fucking your game up. Tell him that when you’re going out cruising for gash that he’s not welcome until he gets his shit together.

    Like


  5. on July 2, 2010 at 11:56 am Steve Johnson

    “I know some of my male readers will complain that a genuine alpha — a real man — never puts hos before bros, but that’s the kind of principled talk that almost always disintegrates in the acid wash of reality. ”

    Putting one ho ahead of your bro is very non-alpha; alphas don’t throw valuable friends to the wolves for a commodity: pussy.

    Ditching a “friend” who costs you every ho he meets is alpha; alphas don’t befriend guys who drain value out of their lives.

    Like


  6. That advice is merciful, but it sounds like a tall order to expect a -2 to move up enough to take out in public, unless he’s young and/or tall and good looking.
    He may be ultimately better off being relocated to a circle of his own kind, to become a ‘king of the dipshits’ and nail fatties.

    Like


  7. Master Roissy:

    You wrote “You want to shine among your friends, but you don’t want to shine on the cheap by surrounding yourself with nerdos.”

    To do so is a woman’s game. Plenty of hotty / fatty pairs out there.

    Like


  8. fuck. whatta you do when this roommate is your own brother…

    Like


  9. Excellent post Sir.

    Ditch the loser freinds. That goes for the success of your dating, career, neighbors, and family. If they acting retarded do not even correct them. Just distance yourself from them, say hi when they do…Yeah, dump them. Neighbors and family who act douchey should be avoided. All bad freinds/people in your circle will do is cost you money, time, possible MAJOR embarrassment and a good girl or guy. (I say that as a female***)

    You know, the telegraph had a piece about dumping loser freinds:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/relationships/7581487/Breaking-up-with-friend-is-harder-than-splitting-with-lover.html

    Note: its from 4-2010. I share it with annoying facebookers who need to level up their quality of freindship. E.i., what do they have to offer and are worth my time.

    editor/thelp999

    Like


  10. Negative 2’s…are unhelpable. Talk about poor grammar. Is unhelpable a word? Ya gotta do the most “mericful” thing and walk away. Or, sometimes if they are ultra clingy say between a 1 and 5? Give them someone else to pow around with. If I have a work acquintance who does not understand I am not into them. I have to sic my girlfreinds on him and I never hear from him again meaning he is busy with their hyperesotrogenic dating bullshit. And yeah, us girls then compare notes and talk about the date and the man. Hey, its what we do.

    Can I hang out with a girl who eats alot, talks about food and insults me in front of others for having a glass of water and a apple?

    No, she is gone. Look, I mean no harm, forgive me, but sometimes you must walk away from those bring you down.

    Like


  11. Too true.

    Like


  12. GROAN!

    Unless you are WAY independently wealthy, your
    TIME is your most PRECIOUS asset. Rich or poor,
    you only get 24 hours each day.

    Get rid of activities that don’t give you active
    payback in some form or another, be it money,
    enjoyment, learning something new or anything else.

    This goes BEYOND game, chasing women, or
    being a good friend.

    This “friend” absorbes much more than 10% of
    your waking hours, and gives you NEGATIVE return.
    Either get rid of him or cut the time spent to
    the barest minimum! There is just no upside!

    This is generic advice to anybody: Get rid of
    friends/aqcuaintances that give you insufficient
    return on your time! Regardless of gender!

    Thor

    Like


  13. The Rookie, what do you mean by

    Shattering that existence will be very difficult, and if it happens, it could end up badly.

    In what kind of way would trying to end your life as a total failure be a bad thing? Of course very few people can make it big, but not being a total failure is still possible.

    But I have to agree with ditching the roommate part. Bad roommate is the worst possible thing that can happen to you during college. Mine was a true nolifer (which wasn’t that bad, could always play some games with him when bored), but he was also a prick who didn’t bother helping with cleaning and listened to metal into the late hours of the night, while I was trying to study.

    Like


  14. Ditching your friends because of mild social retardation is fucking callous. That’s the kind of shit that the “Secret” advocates: Abandon anyone who’s not convenient.

    If you have a friend who’s actively repelling women, then all you have to do is don’t spend so much time with the man, and spend more striking out on your own. Once he’s not your Siamese twin, that is pretty easy. But don’t cut the man out completely.

    And make sure your own game is up to scratch. You might be making mistakes of your own.

    A lot of alphas have uncool friends. They just make sure that they’re not their wingmen.

    Like


  15. on July 2, 2010 at 12:56 pm theobsidianfiles

    Tru dat, R. Better to roll alone than to keep bad company.

    O.

    Like


  16. Aren’t most Roissy readers the ‘beta friend?’

    Like


  17. Steve Johnson

    Exactly so. I was going to write something similar, but you did it for me.

    Like


  18. on July 2, 2010 at 1:33 pm gunslingergregi

    “””””””Cap’n Bob
    And make sure your own game is up to scratch. You might be making mistakes of your own.
    ””””””””’
    Exactly fuck that friend/roomate crutch bs.

    ”””””””How do you deal with your beta friends that don’t want to learn? I don’t want to stop the friendship, and I have been trying to avoid him, but we hang out about 2 hours a day. How do I stop myself from cringing in his presence and resenting him for being himself?”””””””

    The thing is he is your roommate and you said nothing about him going batshit insane from all the bitches you have been fucking on your bed across the room. Leads me to believe you are not picking up any woman. Lets say you and him go to club you don’t have to be hanging whole time together. You should be going lone wolf while in club and picking up. Have a good time with your friend at club act like an idiot shit like that but then go off and pick up a chick. Really should have nothing to do with how your roomate acts or what he looks like. At some point you will end up picking up woman for one night stands that drove their friend from 45 minutes away or so and want your dick at which point womans power or teamwork goes out the window in favor of the gina tingle. If you make a womans gina tingle it doesn’t matter if your friend looks like a dead chipmunk they will be driving to your room and their friend will be staying the night. So you get to help your roomate who is probably a virgin by introducing him to what it is like to sleep near a woman. Maybe not fuck her but up to him to game but the chick will be horny when her friend is fucking you in the same room he he he

    Or shit take an ex girlfriend and sex her up a little and pass it down. Thing is focus on your inner game and get woman. If you have a friend you have fun with then wtf does it matter for getting woman. Unless dude trying to say bitches can’t come in room but that is seperate issue.

    Again your friend does not need to learn game for you to pick up woman you need to learn game to pick up woman lol

    Like


  19. on July 2, 2010 at 1:33 pm Rollo Tomassi

    Unplugging chumps from the Matrix is dirty work.

    Law 10: Infection: Avoid the Unhappy and Unlucky
    You can die from someone else’s misery— emotional states are as infectious as diseases. You may feel you are helping the drowning man but you are only precipitating your own disaster. The unfortunate sometimes draw misfortune on themselves; they will also draw it on you. Associate with the happy and fortunate instead.

    I’m of the opinion that you cannot teach those unwilling to learn. Do you think that even your explaining to him his situation will effect a change? Is this guy ready to hear what you have to say? I run into this problem constantly. If you discourage your friend from smoking and later it saves his life from emphasema you’re a hero. If you help you friend rehab off of heroin you’re a saint, but if you advise him about women and Game that will improve his life in the long term, you’re a meddling busy-body with nothing better to do than stick your nose where it doesn’t belong. Eventually they tire of you – your successes with women reminds them of how misguided their beta approach has been all along, which usually makes them cling even tighter to it.

    I’ve been down this road many times. You have to keep picking away at him to lay the groundwork and wait for opportunities where he’s in doubt or frustrated to wake him up. That’s how religion works.

    Like


  20. Cap’n Bob

    Ditching your friends because of mild social retardation is fucking callous. That’s the kind of shit that the “Secret” advocates: Abandon anyone who’s not convenient.

    This doesn’t sound like a mild case but a severe and stubborn one. Roissy’s advice is right.

    Got news for you guy. Alpha’s CAN BE fucking callous. Part of being alpha, and having some sociopath in you.

    Now I think it is good to be loyal to loyal friends who are bringing something, and it’s the rare guy who brings everything. He might be too competitive w/the girls in fact.

    But if a guy isn’t doing anything for you, then you should rethink why you’re friends. If it’s just that he’s loyal to you, looks up to you or something, or it’s all old time stuff, and you really don’t that much enjoy doing anything w/him or talking about anything w/him, then that’s a pretty low rent, pulling you down, kind of loyal friendship. Sure try to help him out but also time to move on if he can’t learn. Doesn’t mean you have to never see him or not act friendly but does suggest not spending loads of time with him any more.

    It’s not just the negative social proof issue either. Guys you hang out with socially will tend to have some influence on your thinking. Not seismically if you’re a leader kind of alpha guy (or headed for alpha), but some.

    It’s like the office. It’s fine to have work sorts of semi friendships w/guys w/no game, over work issues and politics. They can be useful at doing stuff, and might be under or over you too in the work reporting thing. But guys you hang w/socially from work you should make more guys who at least somewhat get it w/girls. Maybe not at your level. Though there’s some utility early on esp. if sometimes you hang/observe guys who pull/game better than you do.

    Like


  21. Yeah, that sucks. I have a couple of friends that are just awful with women. They wanted me to be their 3rd roomate, but I turned that offer down. I couldn’t be in that kind of position.

    Now, I’ll hang out with them, occasionally if they just want me to come over and watch the game on their 52” HDtv and have a couple of beers or something, but I’m not a fan of going out with them at all. I always felt like it makes me look bad. The one time I will go out with them is when my entourage is so deep that I’m just fucking with girls with the other couple of alphas I know and nobody can actually tell that they’re with me or not….

    I avoid their phone calls and facebook chat messages with regularity.

    Like


  22. on July 2, 2010 at 2:13 pm Devilmaycare

    I had a nearly identical situation with my last roommate. We had been friends since freshman year and he exhibited similar behavior (playing WoW, never going out, socially retarded). I decided to move after he got drunk and effectively cockblocked me when I brought a girl home. Moral of the story: if your roommate is costing you ass, then they’re interfering with your lifestyle friends or not.

    Liked by 1 person


  23. on July 2, 2010 at 2:18 pm The Rational Male

    I can’t handle being around pathetic people.

    I had to spend a couple of days last weekend completing a work project with one such person.

    When the weekend was over I felt the overwhelming urge to sandpaper my entire body to rid myself of the stench of mangina.

    Like


  24. Doug1,

    A few points:

    1. If the man is acting like a walking cock-block, the best solution is not to go out with him. In fact, it’s good practice going out without friends, since you then have to approach women (No buddy crutch). Or else, have a reasonably competent wingman.

    2. No doubt, being callous in your relationships with women is a major indicator of alpha status. They respond to the dark triad: Narcissism; impulsiveness and deceitfulness. Treat ’em mean, keep ’em keen: Old and wise words.

    3. But I don’t think it’s a good idea to be callous in your dealings with friends. Someone who you have been friends with for years. If you use “attractiveness to women” as the main criterion for selecting your friends, then you’ll be shedding a lot of good people. Just don’t bring them on your poon-hunting sessions. But don’t ditch them. It’s brutal and a complete over-reaction.

    Like


  25. This post brings up a good point:

    What do you do with friends that are hopeless betas?

    I firmly believe that any man, no matter what his circumstances, can improve his game. He might not have the same success with women as other men who learn game and have looks, natural charm, height, status, etc. on their side, but game can always be improved if someone is willing to learn.

    The problem is that a lot of hopeless betas don’t even want to try. They have swallowed the whole BS argument given by femicunts and other betas that “being yourself” is the best policy. Thus, they are completely unwilling to try an improve their social skills with regards to women (aka game).

    In this case, avoiding said hopelessly beta friends is truly the best policy.

    Like


  26. on July 2, 2010 at 2:52 pm ahappinessexperiment

    What about all the testimonials we have heard from erstwhile losers who have revolutionized their lives after reading a few books or attending some seminars?

    Why give up on this guy if he hasn’t at least read Mystery Method or attended one Game seminar?

    It’s like you guys are losing The Faith.

    Like


  27. on July 2, 2010 at 2:55 pm Black Rebel

    Exacty spot on, the point about not ditching but rather reprioritizing.

    I have one friend in particular like this, only its even more frustrating because he has the social acumen of a piece of celery, but he’s a big, strong dude who more than a few of the women I’ve brought around when hanging with him said some variation of the exact same thing;

    ‘He’s so handsome, how come he can’t find a girlfriend?’

    Though this guy is more of a shut-in with potential than a social retard like he guy in the post. He talks about wanting a girlfriend, but no matter how many times I call him up and say ‘Yo B, let’s go out and chop some girls’ or ‘Hey man, I’m hanging with my girl and one of her friends who’s kinda cute, come out!’ he always finds a lame excuse not to. I was honestly at the point where I was considering getting him a pro for his birthday, but I never did because I’m not paying $300 for something he’ll probably fuck up anyways.

    Even when the girl he has oneitis for (who’s actually kinda cute) came up a few years ago I was chatting with her and I went into autopilot. She gave me her digits and told me to call…I didn’t because I thought buddy had it, but he didn’t so I wish I did.

    I don’t even bother anymore, and I never hear from him anyways. It’s sad that women judge you by your friends (since this guy is good looking I usually had a bit of extra room to close before his betaness would kill the interaction) but it happens. You can’t have a chink in your chain.

    ‘You see, a real man, besides having principles, also makes the difficult and unpopular choices.’

    Damn right.

    Liked by 1 person


  28. “What about all the testimonials we have heard from erstwhile losers who have revolutionized their lives after reading a few books or attending some seminars?

    Why give up on this guy if he hasn’t at least read Mystery Method or attended one Game seminar?

    It’s like you guys are losing The Faith.”

    Newsflash: If you are unwilling to try, then you will learn nothing.

    Game isn’t that easy to master since it requires actually going up and talking to girls that don’t necessarily want to talk to you. Only guys who really want to learn will improve.

    Hopeless betas who don’t want to change will never learn a damn thing.

    It would be like taking a Calculus class, but never attending class, never opening the book, and never doing the homework…and then complaining that you didn’t learn a thing.

    Liked by 1 person


  29. This post brings up a question: How much time — in terms of hours per week — do you think a red-blooded cool alpha male will choose to spend looking to meet attractive women, seducing attractive women and actually having sex with attractive women?

    Many of the plays you advocate seem to assume the desirability of devoting pretty much all your waking life to the quest for new pussy, but I don’t think most guys with actual friends, career prospects or non-sexual interests of any kind would agree — even guys who are both interested in sex and able to get a fair amount of it. A new hole is fun but devoting your life to it is like devoting your life to getting to that next level on some video game.

    Some will doubtless say that all that’s really being advocated is taking advantage of opportunities to meet and seduce women while you’re otherwise living your life, but you’re just kidding yourselves. You’re not really enjoying that book you’re reading if you look up every 40 seconds to see if any hot snatch is nearby. You’re not really enjoying the company of your friends if your dearest hope is to abandon them to talk to an absolute stranger who may or may not fuck you a couple dates later.

    Actually, if you’re over 25 and you regularly find yourself out in bars after midnight, you either don’t have much of a life or you’re slowly killing yourself. Life alphas — as opposed to game-only alphas — have jobs that require them to be well rested and functional.

    One other note: your suggestion for the optimal circle of friends is basically impossible, by definition, at least on the male side. No male who is even remotely aware of game (even subliminally) will hang in any group where he clearly ranks below some more dominant male. He will break off and find a slightly less cool group where he can be the dominant male — for just the chick-getting reasons you suggest. But then the lesser males in that group will peel off too.

    The only real solution is a group where it’s close enough that there is no clear alpha — so each guy can tell himself that he’s the alpha — or a group where a truly dominant alpha rules over betas who are too far down the ladder to kid themselves. There is no way that Roissy’s friends or the friends of any other would-be alpha who reads this blog would acknowledge said alpha as the alpha — unless they are the tools. And if the other guys don’t acknowledge it, you’re not the alpha. The entire point of alpha is that everyone knows who it is to avoid needless fights that destroy the group.

    Like


  30. did i miss something? what does “spergy” mean?

    Like


  31. on July 2, 2010 at 3:16 pm ahappinessexperiment

    “Newsflash: If you are unwilling to try, then you will learn nothing.”

    Where in the story above is it mentioned that this dude is unwilling to try? It sounds like he is trying, just clueless:

    “involving awkward hugs, egregious service worker tips, and invitations to cheesy strip mall restaurants.”

    Sounds like he is someone who tries too hard, not someone who has given up. Why would a try too hard type be likely unwilling to try Game?

    Like


  32. “Sounds like he is someone who tries too hard, not someone who has given up. Why would a try too hard type be likely unwilling to try Game?”

    Because it would require a massive change to his personality.

    As for “try too hard,” it is this behavior in the first place that needs to change, and unfortunately this may be the part of this beta’s personality that he is unwilling to part with.

    Like


  33. @ Scoop,

    If you want to meet women, then you have to be out “on the prowl.”

    If you want to be “rested” for your crappy beta job, then my advice is to hit the hay at around 9PM…just don’t complain about not getting laid much.

    This talk about what is “alpha” is always stupid.

    I prefer to use the terms “getting laid” or “not getting laid.”

    Like, that guy is getting laid like gangbusters.

    Or, that loser is not getting laid at all and devotes all of his time to his crappy job.

    Like


  34. on July 2, 2010 at 3:34 pm ahappinessexperiment

    “Because it would require a massive change to his personality. ”

    i thought that was kind of the point of Game. or at least being able to fake it until you make it.

    how are all these betas going around pulling women with game if they aren’t doing it in spite of their natural personalities? they learn how not to be themselves, right?

    Like


  35. Roissy, add in the juicy details so dorks like me know what NOT to do.

    Like


  36. on July 2, 2010 at 4:55 pm Vincent Ignatius

    A lot of guys from India are like this. I haven’t encountered any other nationality that pedestalizes like Indians.

    What I do with friends that are particularly bad is just not bring them around in the social situations that I’m picking up chicks in. They fill the need for nerdy conversation in my life and I don’t need to go to the bar to get that.

    Like


  37. “Alphas don’t befriend guys who drain value out of their lives.”

    Well said, Steve Johnson.

    Like


  38. on July 2, 2010 at 5:21 pm Trimegistus

    It sounds like this guy’s definition of friendship involves being surgically attached at the hip.

    I have friends I do certain things with, but they aren’t part of every aspect of my life. I don’t see why there’s any problem with having a dorky guy friend you enjoy hanging out with to play video games and watch movies, but that doesn’t mean he has to accompany you when you’re out on the town looking for an interesting woman. Even if he is your roommate, that doesn’t mean you do everything together.

    Declare this a non-problem and get on with life.

    Like


  39. on July 2, 2010 at 5:51 pm Mark Bachman

    That was me a few years ago, but I changed because I wanted to. Spent way too much time watching my Alpha friends bang women in college.

    I think the friend really has to want to change himself, or it’ll never happen. I got fed up one day and just told myself enough already.

    This was me: http://www.thebetterbeta.com/beta_story.html

    Like


  40. AZ here. I have actually stopped going out to social gatherings with him. I tried one last time and I opened a can of drama. From a dude.

    For background: he is a funny guy, but clown style. He sucks the game out of any interaction, he is like the married guy, so content in his shitty situation that he doesn’t recognize when a guy is trying to get his dick wet.

    Now I’m not saying my game is as tight as Tyler Durden’s, but I am learning, and a cockblock friend doesn’t help.

    Nowadays I leave him in the house playing age of empires by himself.

    Like


  41. on July 2, 2010 at 6:33 pm ahappinessexperiment

    @Mark Bachman,

    i’m a bullshit detection artist and im calling shenanigans on your claim that your site is a labor of love vs. a purely commercial venture.

    Like


  42. on July 2, 2010 at 6:39 pm ahappinessexperiment

    note that whereas the consensus here is that the beta in the story is a hopeless case, mark comes along and says: “That was me a few years ago, but I changed because I wanted to.”

    Like


  43. “He screens out the losers when building a social circle of friends, and he dumps those who have demonstrated an unwillingness to take the advice of their betters to meet the high standards of the group.”

    I’ve actually been thinking about this a lot lately, and I noticed that I’ve never been friends with a beta. I’ve been acquantances, but never close friends. My circle has always been other Alphas. The interesting thing, is how the group dynamics work with all the Alphas.

    Scoop, I have to disagree with you. You have a false dilemma. The way my group handles it is, that I am the generally accepted group Alpha, but I don’t dominate everyone, in exchange they go along with my suggestions, or peel off. The other issue is that each Alpha guy has an acknowledged area of expertise that the rest of us don’t challenge. When it comes up we give him the stage for a while then shift topics. The other important dynamic is women. Each other guy has a girl that focuses her attention on him more than the others, and the rest of the girls generally float to my orbit, with rare exception.

    Like


  44. “If you want to meet women, then you have to be out “on the prowl.”

    If you want to be “rested” for your crappy beta job, then my advice is to hit the hay at around 9PM…just don’t complain about not getting laid much.

    This talk about what is “alpha” is always stupid.

    I prefer to use the terms “getting laid” or “not getting laid.”

    Like, that guy is getting laid like gangbusters.

    Or, that loser is not getting laid at all and devotes all of his time to his crappy job.”

    Scoop is right and you’re wrong.

    If you’re a big-time doctor, lawyer, businessman, investment banker, etc (read: bona-fide alpha, or at least man with alpha job prospects and alpha-type income), then there are going to be major constraints on your time. Period. Partying and scoping out chicks on the weekends is perhaps possible for somebody working such a job, but hanging out in bars until closing time every weekday night is going to destroy your big-deal career in a hurry.

    There are many ways of measuring “alphaness” in a man, but perhaps the most important of these is income and career. Busting your ass to get ahead and dominate in your career is hardly “beta” behavior. (Conversely, working some shitty job and *not* applying enough effort to build your income and career sounds like pure beta thinking to me.)

    In general, I agree with Scoop that dedicating every waking hour of your life to hunting pussy is unproductive and ridiculous. There’s a more than a whiff of “pathetic” in such a lifestyle; it’s akin to the drug addicts who focus all their time and effort towards looking for drugs. There’s more to an alpha lifestyle than this, frankly.

    Like


  45. You can always have mixed social circles.

    Compartmentalize.

    No need to mix them up.

    Always works well, especially if you have MLTRs.

    Like


  46. Whaddup? I couldnt quite makout your post since I was balls deep in the girl you claim to love.

    what a fuckin maroon.

    Like


  47. Bad advice. A guy always need beta friends for places to crash. He isn’t forced to hang out with this one individual, he can easily start going out with his other buddies and like Gorbachev said compartmentalize. Every beta has its use.

    Like


  48. @Ahappinessxperiment

    “i’m a bullshit detection artist and im calling shenanigans on your claim that your site is a labor of love vs. a purely commercial venture.”

    not really You’re a bullshit making artist, the better beta is bang on

    Like


  49. There are many ways of measuring “alphaness” in a man, but perhaps the most important of these is income and career. Busting your ass to get ahead and dominate in your career is hardly “beta” behavior. (Conversely, working some shitty job and *not* applying enough effort to build your income and career sounds like pure beta thinking to me.)

    Fail. You’re living in the world of the past where career success actually correlated with access to snatch. It no longer does.

    Case in point – my sister. Her boyfriend, who she calls “MANgelo”, is a car salesman who only got that job after she met him; at the time he picked her up at a club he was unemployed. He is a “surfer dude” who pretty much bummed around in his 20’s after finishing university. The guy is broke, still lives with his parents, and he sells fucking cars for a living. Oh, and he even quit THAT job so that he could go surfing with his friends on the West Coast, so now he’s out looking for work again.

    My sister actually wants to marry this guy. But, wait, it gets better. A few months after they met, “Mangelo” confessed to her that he may be having a Herpes outbreak. (I’m training to be a medical professional, so I am now unfortunately privy to these stories from family.) He apparently went on to tell a tearful story about how an ex girfriend of his had had it, but he “never had any symptoms” so he’d assumed he hadn’t gotten it. I told her about Famvir and other stuff you could take to minimize transmission risk, but you can probably guess what happened. A few months later my sister told me the reason she was feeling irritable was because she was having a really bad outbreak.

    Morals of the story:
    a) Ewwwww…
    b) Don’t fucking tell me you need to have an uber job and a fast track corporate career to be alpha. My sister’s non-bath taking surfer dude car salesman boyfriend, who she DREAMS ABOUT MARRYING, puts lie to that. And my sister is beautiful, an 8.5 for sure. And she willingly took a herpes infection from a broke bum with the right alpha frame.

    Like


  50. on July 3, 2010 at 1:16 am ahappinessexperiment

    @Z

    the Better Beta TM is an obvious fucking faggot. if u can’t see thru that matrix u r either sucking his cock or playing some serious Tard Game.

    Like


  51. on July 3, 2010 at 3:26 am ahappinessexperiment

    after reading more of his site, i call all out war death-match against the fraud who calls himself Mark Bachman.

    i have no problem with someone trying to sell something, but you lying manhole licker claim not to be selling something when in truth you are selling false hope to losers.

    this is the problem i have with the Game industry. not Roissy: he doesn’t sell false hope. just the opposite.

    but manhole lickers like Mark Bachman and his ilk do. they are douchebags who deserve the title.

    Like


  52. > If you’re a big-time doctor, lawyer, businessman, investment banker, etc (read: bona-fide alpha, or at least man with alpha job prospects and alpha-type income), then there are going to be major constraints on your time. Perio

    What if you are in one of those alpha jobs while being personality wise much closer to a beta than an alpha (tho I do shoot back at all sorts of unreasonable stuff people – especially the GF – are trying to impose on me. Pick your battles but fight them to the end.)?

    Like


  53. Goddam that sucks Peter! I am a believer that being an Alpha or an Om3ga is genetic, i.e. nature not nuture. Some are natural winners and others are natural losers. Betas are stuck in the middle and are changible enough to become a greater Beta is almost, but not quite, an Alpha. T’is terrible to see Alpha bums who still get the babes but what can you do?

    Like


  54. Gil,

    You and many others on this thread (and on this blog) are way too caught up into classifications and putting people into boxes. Even if you fix upon one particular definition of “alpha” (for the purposes of discussions here, we should use Roissy’s definition), there is always going to be a CONTINUOUS range of it. Any given man may “naturally” fall at a certain point on the scale, although the word “naturally” should be considered to cover both his DNA and his upbringing.

    The point of “game”, treated as a body of knowledge/practice, is that using it it is possble for a man, wherever he is on the continuous scale, to improve his position. (Here again Roissy’s definition of “alpha” is the one most relevant, since the focus is specifically “improving male sexual attractiveness to women”.)

    The amount by which game can improve any given man’s position will depend on his ability to learn and to make changes in his personality — game is exactly like every other self-improvement program in this respect. Some men are so “set in their ways” that they will not be able to absorb or put into practice the required learning. But wherever you are, you can get better. Some men won’t have the capacity to become “alpha” in the sense that they will easily score with hot women; but they might still be able to improve themselves enough to get a real relationship with a 6 instead of a one-night-stand with a 4, which would make a huge difference for many men even if it is nowhere near “alpha”.

    Like


  55. Polymath-

    I agree with all you say very well immediately above, with one small caveat. This is w/respect to what you tend to imply rather than actually say at the end.

    It’s about always easier for guys who are prepared to be faithful to get a long term girl friend at a relatively high hotness level (generally at about his own level) than it is to pull girls of the same hotness level for casual or semi casual (puts out quickly in hopes/expectation that the guy will become LTR, while he tends to treat her has a weeks or months fling).

    E.g. a male 6 (middle beta) is much more likely to be able to get a good girl 6 for an LTR than he is to be able to pull less good girl or slutty 6’s for fast putting out sex, fling or casual. Similarly a greater beta (7) is a lot more likely to get a good girl 7 for faithful LTR, than a bunch of similarly hot (but sluttier) 7’s for fast sex.

    AND, good girls get really pissed when their higher betas cheat on them. Won’t stand for it, and blow them off. It wasn’t “THE DEAL” from her point of view. Her real thinking (gut feeling) is that if she wanted an evenually faithless asshole she could have gotten an alpha asshole, or a lesser alpha one. Though w/out the alpha terminology. Ironically, if she is in a LTR with some kind of alpha she’s much more likely to forgive his occasional, not too in her face, playing around.

    Like


  56. nupinup–

    What if you are in one of those alpha jobs while being personality wise much closer to a beta than an alpha (tho I do shoot back at all sorts of unreasonable stuff people – especially the GF – are trying to impose on me. Pick your battles but fight them to the end.)?

    This is typical higher or greater beta territory. Though it’s possible to be so nerdy that even with really good career trajectory on course, you can still be a middle beta. Which is where most guys are.

    If what you want to do is become some kind of alpha to your ltr gf or wife, as opposed to being able to get casual sex with hotties or at least cuties (non fat 6’s are cutties), then read Roissy’s “Relationship Game Week”, and esp. his post collecting much of “Dave from Hawaii”s excellent marital game tips and insights from Roissy’s comments over the months and years, w/Roissy commentary. though his post on “agree and amplify” in the same week series was also simple to implement LTR (and pickup too) Gold.

    Like


  57. […] does Roissy have to say about this? http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/07/02/dealing-with-beta-friends/ Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Fall 2009 RTW: Boy by Band of […]

    Like


  58. on July 3, 2010 at 1:59 pm Smashing_Retards

    Peter observed…. without understanding:

    Fail. You’re living in the world of the past where career success actually correlated with access to snatch. It no longer does.

    Case in point – my sister. Her boyfriend, who she calls “MANgelo”, is a car salesman who only got that job after she met him; at the time he picked her up at a club he was unemployed. He is a “surfer dude” who pretty much bummed around in his 20′s after finishing university. The guy is broke, still lives with his parents, and he sells fucking cars for a living. Oh, and he even quit THAT job so that he could go surfing with his friends on the West Coast, so now he’s out looking for work again.

    My sister actually wants to marry this guy. But, wait, it gets better. A few months after they met, “Mangelo” confessed to her that he may be having a Herpes outbreak. (I’m training to be a medical professional, so I am now unfortunately privy to these stories from family.) He apparently went on to tell a tearful story about how an ex girfriend of his had had it, but he “never had any symptoms” so he’d assumed he hadn’t gotten it. I told her about Famvir and other stuff you could take to minimize transmission risk, but you can probably guess what happened. A few months later my sister told me the reason she was feeling irritable was because she was having a really bad outbreak.

    Morals of the story:
    a) Ewwwww…
    b) Don’t fucking tell me you need to have an uber job and a fast track corporate career to be alpha. My sister’s non-bath taking surfer dude car salesman boyfriend, who she DREAMS ABOUT MARRYING, puts lie to that. And my sister is beautiful, an 8.5 for sure. And she willingly took a herpes infection from a broke bum with the right alpha frame.

    Well, it all depends. Are most guys are willing to *bleep* an jumbo size 2…

    You aren’t? But she is just fat because our toxic food made her fat! 50 years ago she’d be a slightly overweight six! Want to have sex with her now?

    Well, apparently Peter’s sister is unwilling to sex a male with all the status markers of a very bottom level omega.

    But wait! He is only a like that after 12 years of all-female teachers telling him what to do, watching Wall-E and other poisonous trash, and being humiliated daily at work!

    Well, if Peter’s sister knew the REASONS for his behavior…. then I’m sure she wants to have sex with him now?

    That’s what I thought.

    Like


  59. @ Peter

    Genuinely sorry to hear about your sister getting herpes.

    But in regards to what you said…

    Your sister has fallen for a ‘surfer dude’, presumably he’s pretty good at surfing? It’s nothing new, it’s no different to the age old in the band or penniless artist angle.

    Also have you never seen Pointbreak (women love that film and though it’s old, teen girls too, just like Dirty Dancing). Does he look like Keanu Reeves or one of the hotter surfing dudes in it, albeit with herpes?

    But this example is just one example, for every surfer dude getting lots of women on the grounds of being good looking/a bit of a rebel and for every guy running game several nights a week, there are plenty of guys who focus on their work and their own stuff and get plenty of women. At the top of the tier, you get the Mr Big in that Sex and the City programme types.

    I’m sure you don’t need to work hard to get with hot women, but are you saying the surfer dude’s options are better than his? And when you’re 50, whose life would you rather have? Although presumably being good at surfing is not achieved by lying around at the beach.

    Like


  60. on July 3, 2010 at 2:24 pm gunslingergregi

    ””””’The guy is broke, still lives with his parents, and he sells fucking cars for a living. ”””

    Selling cars can make over 80k a year and if you can sell you always have a job.

    Congrats on the dr title change if your still the guy who loves the hair on the snatch.

    ””””””””’Fail. You’re living in the world of the past where career success actually correlated with access to snatch. It no longer does.””””’

    It does though as has been pointed out. You can buy the best looking woman. Best porn stars have them do anything you want and break it off. Getting a woman for long term is nice to have someone you have a history with and the sex can be good but it changes in intensity but variable pussy is where the fun is at long term. Of course this is why woman love religion it makes slaves of men. he he he

    Like


  61. @ Doug

    “AND, good girls get really pissed when their higher betas cheat on them. Won’t stand for it, and blow them off. It wasn’t “THE DEAL” from her point of view. Her real thinking (gut feeling) is that if she wanted an evenually faithless asshole she could have gotten an alpha asshole, or a lesser alpha one. Though w/out the alpha terminology.”

    You’re absolutely right. I wouldn’t classify it in beta/alpha terms but if a woman has got into an LTR with what *to her* is say an overall 7 or 8 which she thinks is exclusive (which to me an LTR is but obviously I can’t speak for all women), then she’s going to feel really cheated if he acts like an asshole. Because if asshole behaviour is part of his deal, then she may as well have gone with the 9 or 10 (*to her*).

    Like


  62. @ Peter

    Even if the guy’s not good looking and/or good at surfing, then your sister’s case is more likely to be (just) bad (enough) boy syndrome, rather than part of some greater picture which negates successful guys.

    Like


  63. Especially as sales men are generally pretty good at building raport – they need to be.

    For the same reason, they almost invariably fail to achieve their target with me – I only get annoyed if you want to sell me something I am not already decided I will buy and the upselling will quickly translate into no sale at all.

    Which is why I love online shopping 🙂

    > If what you want to do is become some kind of alpha to your ltr gf or wife, as opposed to being able to get casual sex with hotties or at least cuties (non fat 6′s are cutties),

    Ideally I would want to overcome my everlasting approach anxiety. It used to be so bad that I put off scheduling doctors appoints until it was really really urgent whereas these days it is (driven by job that does not allow to procrastinate setting up appointment with clients) has been reduced to a complete inability to approach strangers on my own behalf (as opposed to being required by an external mandate). Or to take another view, figure out how to establish relationships – the maintaining part is much less of an issue.

    Like


  64. “The Rational Male”

    You’re not a male, your’re a MAN.

    By calling yourself a “male” you are following the feminist approach and seeing your man self as less than human.

    Like


  65. Meh, Polymath. I see an Alpha as someone who is ‘God’s gift’ to women. They have the ‘it’ factor where women flock to them regardless of what they do. They emit some sort of mystical positive energy.

    I see an Om3ga as someone who cannot attract women regardless. They have the ‘it’ factor in which women will not touch them with a ten-feet long pole. They emit some sort of mystical negative energy.

    Lastly, Betas are the changeable middle who have to work hard to become a Greater Beta who is almost on the same par as an Alpha. And if they ‘let themselves go’ they can become a lesser Beta which is one notch above an Om3ga.

    Like


  66. on July 4, 2010 at 8:10 am Jack the original

    “You’re absolutely right. I wouldn’t classify it in beta/alpha terms but if a woman has got into an LTR with what *to her* is say an overall 7 or 8 which she thinks is exclusive (which to me an LTR is but obviously I can’t speak for all women), then she’s going to feel really cheated if he acts like an asshole. Because if asshole behaviour is part of his deal, then she may as well have gone with the 9 or 10 (*to her*).”

    I don’t know about that. If he cheated with a hottie, it shows he’s attractive to women and a hot commodity. In addition, any woman who’s ok with being cheated on by certain guys but not by others deserves to be cheated on by EVERY guy. If some guys can cheat on you but I can’t, and I get that impression, I’ll make SURE to cheat.

    Like


  67. Gil–

    I think the alpha beta (as Roissy defines same) dividing line is quite real. Alphas including to a degree less alphas call pull hot (7 and up) and even definitely hot (8 and up) girls for fast sex and sluttier girls at this rank for casual sex.

    Higher betas have some gina tingle abilities to them, a bit, but also lots of good boyfriend signals and strengths, and girls basically want them locked down as loyal bf’s. Greater betas can get 6 to even 8’s (if the later are seriously into seriously committed male partners), more often 7’s is successful kinds of greater betas, but are expected to be faithful. They can get quite good pussy, but not lots and lots of it. Which frustrates the hell out of them since they often have the primo jobs/careers.

    Like


  68. […] Chateau: “Suck it up”, The Self-Delusion Cloak Of Invincibility, Science Continues Proving Me Right, Canceling Dates, Dealing With Beta Friends […]

    Like


  69. @Jack

    “I don’t know about that. If he cheated with a hottie, it shows he’s attractive to women and a hot commodity.
    If you’re in an LTR with someone you think is worth having an LTR with, you don’t need him to cheat to know hot women find him attractive.

    “In addition, any woman who’s ok with being cheated on by certain guys but not by others deserves to be cheated on by EVERY guy. If some guys can cheat on you but I can’t, and I get that impression, I’ll make SURE to cheat.”

    I’m not sure that it’s saying she’s ok with being cheated on by certain guys and not others. It’s just that with certain guys it may be more likely to be par of the course than in other guys and that may be part of her reasoning on deciding which guy to have a relationship with in the first place. So she will feel cheated in more ways than one if she’s in a relationship with Steady Eddie (if she had a chance with Bill Clinton/Mr Big etc, didn’t go for it because it was really important to her that her partner was faithful) and Steady Eddie cheats on her.

    Like


  70. on July 4, 2010 at 5:06 pm Original JB

    “I don’t get why you guys would want to help betas – it only encourages them, and risks the propagation of their inferior genetics.”

    Beta participation in society is critical to maintenance of our civilization. The smart alpha knows being a prince in paradise beats being a king of the dung heap.

    Like


  71. First of all, from a long-time stalker, great blog, Roissy.

    @Whaddup?
    “Aren’t most Roissy readers the ‘beta friend?’”

    Yes and no. It’s relative. The guy who emailed is probably more typical. No doubt he himself has been a ‘beta friend’ to others, his own social acumen being somewhere in between his nerdy friend and his cooler friends. In other words, a middle-beta, and a frustrated one at that.

    If someone is loyal to you, that’s no reason alone to keep hanging out with them. In the eyes of a clingy omega, even betas look like admirable alphas, especially those that give them the time of day. The most admiration I have received had has been from clingy omegas, and upon realisation of that, I have had to disregard their compliments when making rational self-assessments. Armed with this new-found knowledge, I am in the process of shirking off a sycophantic swamp monster of a girl (whom it transpires has been shunned in the past for stalker behaviour), upon the realisation that her friendship is as much a thing of desperation as it is admiration, and that my reciprocity is one of deluded albeit high-minded principle. Platonic friendships can be savoured like all good things in life, but only insofar as they are truly hedonic and/or constructive.

    Like


  72. Platonic friendships can be savoured like all good things in life, but only insofar as they are truly hedonic and/or constructive.

    And as this commerce of hedonism is the ultimate arbiter of life satisfaction, it is valuable knowledge for when asking for favors. Always frame the issue not that you need help, but that you can help the other person solve their problem, by solving yours.

    That, and be mindful of the balance of what you give and what you get.

    And the hedonism imperative as the monetary unit of communication exchange leads to this way to add value to your exchanges: don’t be boring. At least be good for entertainment value and panache.

    It’s a duty, and it’s adds value to your exchanges that you can draw on for benefit.

    Like


  73. “Beta participation in society is critical to maintenance of our civilization. The smart alpha knows being a prince in paradise beats being a king of the dung heap.”

    Hierarchy is inevitable, yes. But I’d prefer to be the dumbest person in the room. I’d prefer to be the least educated. I’d prefer all the babes to be way hotter than me.

    Like


  74. Here is a topic for another Roissy post if something similar has ever happened to him:

    the “friend” who assumes that, if you are with a set of women, he deserves one of them instead of you rightfully keeping both for yourself.

    In the Army I made the mistake once of telling ‘the guys” in the break room that I was about to take a shower and get dressed up for a square dance 20 miles across the plains.

    One of them begged me to take him.

    On our way out the gates of the base, he said “damn, I forgot to buy condoms at the PX”.

    I knew at that moment that he was going to be trouble, not for being beta but for possibly being too alpha.

    At the party I made the point of separating from him but I did not insist that he not bother me at all during the evening.

    I ended up getting into a great conversation with two 18 year olds, one of whom was heading to Harvard. I was 22 at the time.

    He later broke in as “my friend” and quickly decided that “his woman” was the Harvard girl while I was talking about something with the other woman.

    He was a fast mover and she ended up telling the other woman, before I had the chance to realize that my target had been appropriated, that she was going for a walk but to be “ready to call the police” if she didn’t come back within 10 minutes.

    This was the 80s. She thought he was a creep but women went for walks with insistent creeps back then. She never wanted to see him again and I was ruined in her eyes by my association with him.

    I tried on the phone the next day to disown him completely but she was on her way to Harvard and I and he were “just in the lowly US Army” to her.

    She’s be 45 now and I might accidentally date her daughter some day, but she was the best chance I had in my early 20s and a different fate might have happened with her in the 10-15 years I could have been her boyfriend so I still regret the evening I stupidly decided to bring a fellow soldier to a square dance.

    Bros before Hos doesn’t stand up to the acid wash.

    Like


  75. Lily, almost no women get in relationships with Mr. Big type guys. Those guys don’t commit easily and are few in number. The type of woman who would chase an already attached man is a worthless one anyway.

    All kinds of men, and women, can cheat. Your average higher beta has many opportunities to cheat.

    Like


  76. I’ve got a beta friend / housemate in similar situation but i don’t think he’s affected my social value. A girl i was seeing for a while eventually asked me what kind of friends i had and if i hung out with this guy much (shit test). I just said he tags along sometimes but i have my other mates that i party with.

    If he is out with you in a social environment while you’re leaning back slowly qualifying some chick, a shit test will come pretty quickly to see how you know him. Standing up for him when he’s clearly a a bit dorky can come across as though your championing a weaker man, taking him under your wing which is endearing. Saying something like “I’m showing him round town for the night he doesn’t get out much” can be good leader of men DHV.

    p.s – found this blog a few months ago – changed my goddamn life.

    Keep it coming Roissy.

    Like


  77. on July 7, 2010 at 6:00 am Master Beta

    I’ve never heard anyone in the “humans choose our own personality” camp deal the misfortunate anything other than sneering contempt.

    Personality traits, such as neuroticism and intro/extroversion are HIGHLY genetic and HIGHLY stable throughout the life span. False hope is a huge industry.

    And what is usually referred to as “intelligence” has absolutely nothing to do with attracting women. Nor does “social intelliegence”, imho. We all know women love narcissists who are constitutionally incapable of reading other’s emotions.

    I’m betting the sadistic fucks to which I’m refering are also liberals. Go full Hitler or shut the f*** up.

    http://www.psychologicalscience.org/onlyhuman/2006/12/neurology-of-contempt.cfm

    Like


  78. on July 7, 2010 at 5:32 pm Mark Bachman

    @Ahappinessxperiment

    Christ, dude. Judge the content, not the intent. No offense, but your blog is dumber than a bucket full of hair – regardless of your intended purpose.

    Like


  79. @Mark Bachman,

    so…. u wanna play ball?

    Like


  80. @Mark Bachman,

    reputation is an important free market concept. the USA is overregulated because liberals underrate the value of reputation. i got no problem with your selling a service. we all are. you are commenting on a site where people are debating what is true and what is not. if u come here and claim ur not selling when u obviously r, people r going to pick up pretty quickly on that shit. im calling a spade a spade. if u want to maintain u r a heart when u r clearly a spade that’s fine with me, but it might be bad for ur reputation.

    then again most of the commenters on this site are national socialists who r afraid of the free market so u might go over well with them.

    Like


  81. @Mark Bachman,

    Great Books For Men once referred to my site as a “major publicatiion.”

    Has GBFM made any reference to your site?

    Like


  82. on July 8, 2010 at 10:59 am Mark Bachman

    @AHE

    Nope, not interested in playing ball. Just writing a blog that no one reads.

    Perhaps we had a miscommunication on the term “selling”. Selling an idea, sure. Selling something for a profit, well, I’m not doing that at all. Not that there would be anything wrong with that.

    Write an article about why my advice is useless and how I’m selling false hope to losers (I think thats what you said) and email it to me. I’ll post it. I’m interested in releasing material that helps Beta males – and views from all sides are welcome.

    Congrats on your GBFM reference.

    Like


  83. @Peter

    Just because the loser is banging another loser like your sister, doesn’t mean the guy is alpha. It is typical for people to confuse one personal example with the general rule of thumb. If the surfer dude was alpha then he would have other girls flocking to him…

    Your sister’s example is a great case for misery attracts company. I’m sure it’ll be the end for both of them if they ever get married and have kids. He will work a variety of dead end jobs to support the one or two kids… completely transforming him into a beta provider/loser. Your sister wants to marry him because she is a typical dumb broad who thinks she can fix him. She is also trash since she stayed with the guy to get STDs. People who have self-esteem and care about their future will select their long term partners carefully, it was no accident that she got it.

    Like


  84. “Your sister’s example is a great case for misery attracts company.”

    Like


  85. “Congrats on the GBFM reference”

    ahahaha

    Like


  86. Wow!!! What brilliant example of brotherhood amongst men. This scumbag is actually advising u to dump ur good friend because he can’t get laid and for what exactly? Some hideous sack of amoral meat and what she will do to u once she is done. Toss ur sorry ass in the dustbin once someone richer and more “alpha” shows up. Whatever happened to honorable men. Pathetic!!!

    No wonder why those feminists rule and men live a humiliating and degrading life under the Matriarchy. This scumbag PUA should have been shot in the face for writing this.

    [Editor: Overreaction much?]

    Like