The Incredible Power Of The Backturn

I arrived at a Halloween party with a mixed group. We stood and talked and laughed, enjoyed compliments from drunk strangers on our costumes, and ogled competing costumes, particularly the skimpy ones. A man dressed as a 1980s glam rocker strode over to our group, standing tall and confident. He asked a question, pointedly addressing one of the girls with us, and then cracked a joke. She giggled. Ten minutes later, after he had successfully immersed himself in the flow of our conversation, the girl who giggled held up a camera in the direction of her girl friend while yelling at him over the noise of the music to join her for a photo together.

Add then, like Peter disowning Jesus, she was denied three times. And it was his cock crowing.

But first, a bit of background. The girl at the heart of this chronicle of game is not a playette. Not a slut. Not an ingenue. Not an attention whore. She is extroverted, but in a good way, soaking up the company of friends and having a knack for making people feel good about themselves. She listens as well as she talks. She hardly ever curses. She doesn’t have a reputation for sleeping around. She’s been single for a year, but that’s because her last breakup was difficult and now she tests the dating pool with one toe. She is cute, not hot. An inarguable 7. She is a professional in a female-oriented field. She’s a good girl, and more than that, a good person.

Not the kind of girl you’d think would fall for a common game tactic? Think again.

The first of her photo requests was basically ignored by glam rocker guy. He looked up at her after she asked, smiled warmly, then swiveled his head to glance around the room, returning to our group to make a comment to another one of us. She implored a second time, her voice rising in pitch. He didn’t even look at her this time, instead keeping his attention focused on one of her friends. The third time she asked him, furiously waggling her camera at arm’s length in front of her girl friend, she was practically screaming to be heard over the crowd, her face reddening and the tumult in her voice signaling desperation. This final request was answered when he performed a stone cold backturn on her. Not with any hint of disgust, mind you. It was all done so nonchalantly and indifferently that she could be forgiven for thinking he just hadn’t seen or heard her hysterics.

His third disavowal so cratered her self-assurance and social control that her mouth closed abruptly, stricken silence overcame her, and she stared at his back with wide eyes for an interminable few seconds while he watched the crowd swarm by. The whole episode was caught on videotape… the video recorder of my mind, that is.

He finally disappeared through the maze of costumed partiers. Camera girl looked dejected. It would have been hard to judge how much he had affected her were it not for the couple of times she asked where he had gone off to. But the proof came when her face lit right up when he later rejoined our group, and she feverishly interjected to monopolize conversation time with him. Regrettably for him, he learned that she was not a good-to-go girl, and to her everlasting despair she found him at the close of the night canoodling with a slutty blonde. I’ve no doubt that if he had asked for her number, she would have thrown it at him.

There is something to be said for blithely ignoring a girl to flip the script and get her chasing you. Of course, ignoring a girl before you have made any sort of impression is not going to impact her consciousness in any way. You’ll just be one among a horde of mediocrities breathing the air around her. Glam rock guy first made his impression, hooking her interest, then answered the call of her compliance test with a masterful backturn. A mighty backturn so impersonal and unmistakeable that she could not drive him out of her mind for the bulk of the night.

When a woman begins setting up compliance tests — aka hoops — for you to jump through, know that you are making progress seducing her.

When you refrain from jumping through her hoops, know that you have ratcheted up her arousal.

When you give her the backturn after her repeated attempts to coerce compliance from you, know that you have seduced her mind. You’ve created a disturbance in the force. A rift to a parallel universe has opened. Now she will feel an urge to seduce you.

It’s yours to lose after that.


  1. Yo, GBFM
    I herd u like to play NBA 2K


    • on November 1, 2011 at 11:28 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM)

      lzozolzllz i tures 2 take a day off 2 attend to all my hottiies who needd my slsosoploeeoege and ehre u are paging me.

      don;t i do enough 4 u? lzozozoozooz

      just kididididng glad to help u out

      yestterday i weint to the doctor to try and get some help

      i went to the docotor and guess what he told me guess what he told me
      he said son you better try to get better no matter what u do
      cause nothing compares
      nothing compares


      i thonk it is cool how sinead oconnoer ocomnnonr covered prince, i just wish she hand’t eaten too and lotsa twinkies i heard lshe like butthex good luck getting someoene to put theier cokaks in dat tusgshs zlzolzhim lzozolzlzl

      i can butthex who ever i choose
      i can buthex a neoncnc in a fancy restaurant zlzlozoz


      • on November 2, 2011 at 11:38 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM)


        sinead posted a pcicturess picture of my halalowweenie costume zlzolz

        halloweenie zlzozlzooz hallow-weeenenenieee loolslzozo

        da ghost of great books 4 men’s lostsass cockassS!!! lzozoz

        i love how sinead works teh inetenret like all womenz work the dating facebook sites, posting pictures iof themeselves when they were twnty years younger hotter and tighter and 100 pounds ligter lzozlzozozozo


      • on November 2, 2011 at 1:08 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM)

        speaking of backturns lzozozlzo
        we must think of da butt
        which is on da back
        once upon a timez
        behind every good man there was
        a woman
        now behind every “good” woman
        there is a
        buttcocking them in secrteive tapings of butthex to bolster book sales zlozlzzo
        buttcocking and assocking and deosuling womenz in coolege cermeonies
        then sending them forth
        to tame men as jonah goldberg states dat
        “Women tamez men, nuff said,”
        and wehn jonah cherubic faced fat face dgodlebebrg says “nuff said”
        NUFF IS SAID!
        sending forth college-asscocked women who were asskccoed and deosuled
        in college to tame men
        to get married to betas and gammas
        and seek evngance for their sore butts
        on nice guys
        asscockoing nice guys in divorce court
        and transferring theri assetts ASSETTES ASS-SETS lzozozl (ass-sets are like the dining sets you getz for your wedding, but isttss not just the dishes and cups and orks and knives, but the entire ASS that gets cocksed in da divocre system so i have heard as sda GBFM is no dummie so i do not partatke in da marriage hoax fronted by the churches working for da feminsist welath transferring benernkie fed lzozozzoz)

        k’ching! k’ching!

        everything that wwas once noble
        medicine univeristy marraige love education
        is transformed
        into tha which
        creates debt
        as tirckle-down debt trickles down
        and trillions in assettsts gush on up
        to da top of da fiat peeyrmaiind schemess zlzozlzllzlz

        NUFF SAID ! lzozozlzl


  2. That picture is hilarious. He got turned off by her 10, 3 fingered arms and too much caffeine.

    I think you mentioned before about seeing hoops and bypassing them as a method for attraction. And its a problem when they don’t give you hoops or shit tests.

    what would she have gained from a picture with him? A facebook posted image? Some validation?


  3. This can backfire if you overdo it — I know I’ve seen guys try to be over-cocky (giving her an answer that you’re acknowledging what she’s attempting to gain)…

    Last weekend I watched a guy new to game give his back while oversaying “Whoa, check this out” to something behind him. Utter fail.

    I’ve turned my back on one woman only to be face to face to another, much hotter gal, which I tried to play off by turning back to the first one (utter fail of the most revolting kind).

    The back IS important, but what most game newbs need to understand is that it’s not just that back that matters, it’s where your front is facing. In some situations, just tilting your body 15 degrees away from facing hers is enough for her to jump up and demand attention/validation.

    It’s all body language in the end: are you leaning in, or away? Is your body wide open and available for all women to admire, or are you closing it up and offering it all to only one dame?

    Great post — body language is something that is a DEAD GIVEAWAY for the upper beta that differentiates him from the lower alpha.


  4. As you mention, the art is in the way he did it without appearing rude or conceited. Please describe that a little more. Was he actually looking at her while she was making her photo requests? Or was he looking elsewhere and appeared unaffected, as if he honestly hadn’t heard her?

    [Heartiste: He looked directly at her after the first request. Second request, he glanced in her general direction but mostly kept his focus on the rest of our group. Third request, he didn’t look at her. He pulled it off without seeming rude, though in point of fact what he did was very rude indeed. But hey, chicks dig rude boys.]


    • I heard he smacked her across the face and said, “What did you say to me, woman?”

      When she followed him, he made her walk three steps behind. And stare at the floor.

      The ultimate negger.


  5. there’s no better evidence that the backturn works on women than the fact that women use it ALL THE TIME on men.

    try recalling how often you’ve seen hot chicks just abruptly turn around or otherwise get distracted when men are trying to hit on them. keep your eyes peeled for this sort of classic alpha female behavior and you’ll see it happen everywhere.


    • So how would you respond to such an IOD from a girl? Call her out on it in some way, or ignore it and neg later?


      • Never acknowledge a rejection. Don’t call her out.
        Move on or come back later with more aloofness.


      • Loud and authoritatively: “HEY. Don’t be fucking rude.” often with a grab of her upper arm to turn her back around and bring her back into your bodyspace.

        Most newbies won’t be able to pull this off though, the key is in your tonality and where it’s coming from in your headspace:

        If your headspace is “please turn around so I can try to win you over” it won’t work and you’ll creep her out. If your headspace is “I expect basic politeness and respect from the people around me, you are acting like a brat” it will work and make her gina tingle.


      • Good stuff.


      • i agree with the tactic. it does work. but its efficacy is wholly dependent on the appropriate context. a distracted girl isn’t being disrespectful, just aloof. grabbing her and rebuking her would be weird.

        these tactics are best used when a chick is blatantly disrespectful or trying to tool you like she does every other guy. when you check these types, man do they pause, usually w a curious glimmer in their eye.


      • see also, tony montana:


      • The backturn is used by hot chicks to reject men. It’s an easy way to ignore his attention without confronting him directly. Grabbing and yelling “don’t be fucking rude” at a woman who has already rejected you looks weird and desperate.

        The only way I could see this working is if a) she’s already attracted to you and is using the backturn as a coy, “playing hard-to-get” ploy, OR b) you’re extremely cocky and playful about it, like “get over here you saucy little brat.”

        Otherwise, getting butt-hurt with total strangers over “basic politeness and respect” isn’t very fun or sexy.


      • Go out and pick up chicks more.


    • on November 1, 2011 at 4:34 pm BornAgainAlpha

      Good Point. Just try to politely catch the attention of an alpha female bartender or high end waitress some time. Until game I never understood why they would be rude and ignore potential customers. It makes no sense! If it was me – ie. a rational male – I would want to maximize my income by being nice to everyone and selling more drinks. But their backturns can be truly masterful! Also, compare their reaction when you continue to politely try to get their attention versus blocking their way and giving them your order or touching their arm and assertively speaking to them. You get a lot more respect and interest with the latter technique. Before knowing game it always puzzled me that they seemed to be nicer to me the more assertive or rude I was in getting their attention. Now it all makes sense.


      • Good catch. Hadn’t thought about it until I saw your comment. Now, I’m remembering all those times this happened to me – and it makes sense. Pattern was always the same – single, young, attractive female server whose poor service was, in retrospect, a shit test.


      • …which can be answered with a shit tip.


      • i have an uncle. total alpha. in every way. old, fat and ugly but wicked personality and character. I’ve seen him yell out “fraeulein!” (usually quite offensive in this country when speaking to grown women, and he mightve even snapped his fingers) to get a waitress’ attention (after more subtle attempts didn’t work). he embarrassed the hell out of his wife, but boy did waitress hop to attention w a genuinely happy grin (girls have a sixth sense for this shit).

        that said, ya gotta be really careful to calibrate. if its not congruent you will crash and burn. this guy is a high alpha. he would deal w a total bitch response w the smoothest of social grace.


    • Right, in any twatty gathering the one who likes you has her back turned to you so she can talk to her friends about you.


    • Hi CH – care to comment on/analyse the lead story of The Atlantic: ‘All the Single Women’, by Kate Bolick ?
      Sure getting a lot of airplay…

      [Heartiste: Most of the “insights” in that article have been explored here on this blog for four+ years. I suspect the staff at Atlantic knows that. Heh.]


    • The big problem I see in the Anglo world is that men don’t do this sort of shit anywhere near enough. If you’ve ever been with a hot chick and walked into a nightclub, watch all the beta losers stare at here. They don’t do this in continental Europe or in Asia. More men ignoring the hot pussy will make the American (or in my case Australian) chicks behave more like those abroad i.e. happy to talk to a man and easily impressed by him.


  6. Honestly, I didn’t think backturns would work on that kind of girl. I usually try them on the spoiled types who aren’t used to being denied anything.


    • Though I suppose any pretty girl can get her way most of the time. So never mind.


    • It’s game theory. You can’t take the play out of context of the environment in which it’s being played. This blog could just as easily be talking about chess.

      Reading this tells you what moves are possible, but experience tells you when they are appropriate.


  7. Interesting. Did she give up when she saw him with a blond girl? Maybe she liked it, that’s so preselected, and she’ll go and stalk him? Hope you’ll write an update if something happens between them. I LOVE love stories!


  8. Sometimes, I’m under the impression that the mere fact that game works proves that women are crazy.
    Not seeking high status, not hypergamous, not low self esteem: goo goo ga ga C-R-A-Z-Y!

    Lucky that I enjoy interacting with crazy people.


    • I actually don’t see insanity in women, except those with BPD, of course.

      What I do see is complete and total indoctrination from a young age that masks their social-sexual roles. So many women are told to ignore their biology and psychology that they start to run counter to the reality that they CAN understand what runs their hamsters, and they can seek out men that would do it the best in the long term.

      Of course, since I live in primarily urban communities, the vast majority of women around me have BPD, so they’re already crazy. But when it comes to the suburban or rural gals I spend time with, they’re totally sane, even if they’re indoctrinated to ignore the best candidates to keep their hamsters spinning for the rest of their lives.


      • That’s bullshit: women are not blind to their underlying instinctual drives because of culture, they are blind because it evolutionarily advantageous for them to be blind. Have a read of “Why Everyone (Else) Is A Hypocrite” by Rob Kurzban or check out his TED talk for the lazy.

        Instincts exist to drive action. Conscious thought exists to communicate with other humans. Thus, in any situation where it is advantageous for us to lie about the true nature of our motivations, we will usually be totally blind as to what those motivations are.

        Guys who run a lot of game pick up on this in terms of the difference between female’s announced mate choice and their actual mating habits, however there are far more examples of this action/perception disconnect in both men and women.

        For instance, virtually everyone reports that they are better than average at everything. Including making accurate assessments of whether they’re better than average. (The exception being people with depression.) It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.


      • Count me out of that “I am better than average at everything.” I generally, and categorically, will admit often what I suck at. That’s also why I command a higher hourly rate than most people in my life of work — I sub out what I suck at doing (and there’s a long list of things there) to people who are really good at it, and take my 30-50% cut before paying them.

        One of my LTR’s grandmothers absolute loves me (and she reads me on various blogs that I pointed her to). She’s told me stories of women from her day — women who KNEW their biological dysfunctions and why they were attracted to strong, powerful men. She told me about the weakest guys in her circles, guys who never married because they were weak and the women knew it.

        My neighbor in Chicago is an old broad, and she admits the same thing and doesn’t understand why women can’t differentiate between losers who fake power and winners who are powerful and don’t have to brag about it.

        My cleaning lady in Houston is an older broad (50s) and she also admits the same.

        While I think that these older dames probably have learned more about themselves, I still strongly believe that modern “culture” has tricked women into ignoring their evolutionary biological foundations.


      • If you take the modern evo psych view as correct, it doesn’t really produce too different an outcome from what you’re arguing. Essentially it says that absent a culture which constantly reminds women the true nature of their instinctual drives that they will forget what they are.


      • Good comments. Where is your blog


      • Thanks dude, don’t have one. Maybe I’ll look into it.


    • on November 1, 2011 at 3:23 pm (R)evoluzione

      I say again, unto thee: it’s not a bug, it’s a feature. If they weren’t batshit crazy, our masterful techniques & alphatude would have no effect, or ill effect.

      Lucky for us, the hamster is a device that shields a woman’s mind from the crazy machinations of her inner mating instincts; if her consciousness would have to be in full contact with her inner drives, she’d be not only crazy but delusional as well. Thus the hamster serves women in that they get to at least appear sane (to blue-pill chuggers).


      • “If they weren’t batshit crazy, our masterful techniques & alphatude would have no effect, or ill effect.”

        it depends on how you define crazy. the only actual definition that might come close to justifying your comment is “foolish”, because it is so subjective. womens responses to game actually make a lot of sense because game is designed to convey desirable personality traits (confidence, strength, intelligence, leader etc). This all makes sense because women have different manifestations of these traits and to raise children to viability, a man with the opposite polarity is a huge strategic asset.

        the hamster is just a way for women to consciously rationalize truths they cannot or will not accept: that they are vulnerable and their ideal mate is also the riskiest partner (in that he will stray and leave them in single motherhood). that doesn’t sound crazy to me; that strikes me of as the epitome of rationality.


      • This is a good point and why I always stress not to judge or blame girls for doing their crazy shit. Once you understand why they do what they do it actually makes complete sense and you realize they’re predictably irrational and that’s why game works. They aren’t using the same logic a man does and their hamster keeps them from understanding their own logic, but it really is in there doing its thing in an organized chaos sort of manner.


      • But to be fair his point is that they are DUMB for not being able to differentiate between game signals vs. true status.

        [Heartiste: Game signals *are* true status, because the use of them makes women feel just as good as any other male attractiveness trait would.]


      • not really. they might be fooled for the odd ONS. but they are less dumb than the guy who marries a bleach-blonde, rhinoplastied, fake-titted playboy bunny type. cuz those genes you thought you were getting, *dont actually exist*.

        whereas w game even neil strauss types can fake it till they make it, but itll eventually become real.


      • I’m with you guys, I was (half) joking.


      • It’s not about appearing sane. It’s about pursuing a pattern of action that has been evolutionarily successful in the past.

        Most likely, the stated preference for beta males primarily exists to help women sucker them out of resources. Easier to lie to a beta male and say you want him if you really believe it.

        If this is true then one would expect that women who do not have a requirement to sucker resources out of a beta male would have a stated preference for alpha males. Preliminary evidence: rich girls, ones lacking resource insecurity (versus, for example, an ex-foster kid who was at least an 8 and said she hated muscled guys) and girls from alpha families tend to be much more likely to declare a preference for alpha males.


      • Ian,

        What about women who come from resource insecure origins, but either through marriage ( to either a beta or alpha), or through their own qualifications, or both, become resource secure? What effect would you say this new found security has on a woman’s stated preferences?


      • I don’t have enough experience to give you a definitive answer, but my grandmother once told me that in your younger years, all she wanted was wimpy little beta dudes, but that after 30 she was primarily attracted to beefy Shawn Connery types. Yeah, talking about sexual relations with the g-mother, good times.

        She had a resource trajectory *potentially* similar to what you mention, but honestly, it’s so hard to tease out the details of these shifts. It would make sense for a shift to occur however.


  9. The cartoon is telling: she’s getting the heart-flutter that fly fishermen get the millisecond a 26-inch rainbow trout coughs out the hook and calmly escapes into the abyss.


  10. “She’s a good girl, and more than that, a good person.”

    That’s not important, Heartiste.

    [Heartiste: In context, it is.]

    You don’t even need to tell us that! It’s looks 99%.

    [98%. But that’s quibbling. Looks are a necessary but not sufficient condition for LTRs.]


    • So what else is in these 2% that we need for LTR? (that we like oral and anal sex? – so says your DMV test for women)

      [Heartiste: The DMV test for women says a lot of other things, too. Why don’t you try reading the whole thing to get the answers you pretend you want instead of trolling the comments like you are doing now, k?]


    • Maya,
      I may be in the minority here, but while sufficient looks are a necessary condition, if the girl meets a hotness threshold (7 or above), character and personality traits outweigh a higher looks score for me. For example, I’m not going to leave an intelligent, responsible 7 for a ditzy trainwreck 9. But i’m going with a ditzy 8 over a 6 any day.


    • It’s significant for reasons of comparison. One of the first caveats any critic of Game is bound to make is that it only works on LSE bar sluts, or “certain types of girls”.

      In actuality it works on EVERY type of girl; even the good-girl HB7 church-mouse that most guys think they have a shot at “without needing to resort to playing games with her.”


      • I get your point, but be careful of using the word EVERY. Women need to understand that game is like rack. Great tits don’t have the same effect on every guy because some guys are serious ass men, and other dudes are just gay, but for the vast majority…


      • so… NAWALT?


      • Umm. More like… you ain’t the 1%


      • …wtf are you gonna do with a good-girl HB7 church-mouse…


      • bring out her inner slut, what else?


      • Give her communion, but with my cock instead of a wafer.


      • You’d be surprised…..


      • Play plant the flag, of course.


      • Me? Nothing, but churchy white knights who think their HB7 ‘barlow girl’ is immune to the biomechanical realities of Game might have their house of cards blown over.

        Then again, probably not,…*sigh*


      • It’s a common caveat because there is an element of truth in it. Many girls do preferentially pair-bond, and they will sleep with men who lack game. People were hooking up long before game, and they’ll be hooking up long after. Not every girl is going to spend her whole life holding out for a dick-swinging alpha.

        Guys do have a shot at those girls without using game. Game makes it a lot easier of course, but pair-bonders often won’t fall in love with guys with game because they instinctually understand that those guys will never pair-bond back.

        Of course, won’t fall in love does not equal won’t sleep with.


      • For example, my first serious girlfriend. I was 18, had no game apart from approaching and talking, and got rejecting by every girl in orientation week at university. Except her.

        Nerd parents, beta background, resource insecurity from being poor, stated preference for beta guys. In her words, she took me home that night because she felt bad for me.

        From there I ran that relationship just like Roissy would advocate: distant, push/pull, “I usually date prettier girls, but I like your personality”.

        The result? Sure, for two years she was obsessed with me, but she never really loved me and she was a manipulative bitch back.

        Honestly, it wasn’t a bad way to run a relationship, at least I didn’t have to worry about getting betafied or cheated on, and it gave me space to sleep around. I got mine. But I’ll never criticize anyone who prefers the light side of the force.


  11. when handed a camera in such event, I take a picture of myself and hand the camera right back…


  12. The backturn is amazingly effective. I’ve started using it more consciously on my wife. When the conversation turns in a direction that I don’t like or she is in a foul mood I turn my back or in some cases leave the room. I see it as a way to break the energy. It can be really subtle or completely overt. I find the subtle back turn is a great way to let a girl know you not interested in what they are talking about at that moment but leaves enough out there that says you are still available if they come around to pleasing you better.


  13. on November 1, 2011 at 4:49 pm Boring and annoying Maya

    sorry. i won’t write stupid comments anymore. (it’s just that your blog is making me extremely anxious because i’m unsuccessful and fucked up myself so I can’t resist writing really useless and idiotic posts here)


    • Like your earlier comments, this a plea for attention, and a pathetic one. If you want therapy, you have come to wrong place.

      This is a place to discuss and learn the cold, hard truth about the human male/female mating dynamic.


    • Secret: everyone else is fucked up too. But learning how to pretend can bring “success” in much. Effed up, I know. Wish somoene had taught me that a long time ago. You will find meaningful friendships when you pierce another person’s facade and start to learn about the real person (and actually like them). Little is more boring than a person who is in the dark- unless you are having fun bringing them into the light.

      ~Ancient Fortune Cookie I Wrote In Past Life


    • that’s the most sensible post you’ve ever written here.

      clearly you’re not the real maya.


    • You know, if you’re gonna get frame-controlled by a guy like that you should at least pick someone worth your while. Shit tests exist for a reason too.


  14. This is a favorite behavior of mine: gain their attention briefly, then ignore them. I do this in conversation with girls all the time, usually unconsciously. I’m looking around the room, distracted. They lean in try to get my attention. “Mmhmm…” I answer disinterestedly to whatever they ask. I take a step back, smile and look off to the side. It generates a, “hey I’m not trying to get anything from you. In fact I’m not even sure I want anything from you, relax” kind of vibe.

    The guy could have at the very least exchanged numbers with her or something, even as a ‘backup’, in case slutty blonde fell through. On the other hand, maybe he just wasn’t that into her, or maybe he just got very caught up in slutty blonde.

    I’m curious how he behaved towards the slutty blonde, perhaps he did similar things. Or maybe she was drunk and good to go, so there wasn’t much need for anything other than, “Let’s go.”

    And excellent point in the comments about how it is rude, only it doesn’t seem rude to the girl. I like to think of this as the kind of misdirection used by magicians. You look at a bird in a tree for a moment, the girl you’re with then has no idea you’re then looking right at her cleavage, or another girl’s ass because you’ve focused her attention on the bird in the tree. Similar with the rudeness, she believes you’re just ‘caught up in conversation’, or ‘distracted’. Whether unconscious or not, it can have the same effect on them. All of them.

    Right on man.


  15. That was a pretty good post, man.

    Especially the “she’s yours to lose after that” part. That resonated nicely with the exponentially bigger pool of fail I get now that I’m playing the field a bit harder.

    It’s how you get to Carnegie Hall, I guess.


  16. I would do this, but when i turn my back I tend to whip chicks with my dick.

    Purely by accident, of course.

    Hmm, come to think of it, that would be an even more effective neg…


  17. Turn your back to anyone in such a manner that makes the other person assume you didn’t hear them, and you’ll intrigue them – boy OR girl.
    Basic psychology. Not gender specific.

    [Heartiste: Nope. It’s definitely gender specific. When girls pull this backturn shit on guys, usually the guys respond like they have been rejected, and lose interest.]


    • Classic projection by a woman.

      Tell me, do you also think you’ll get more men if you have a hard-charging career as a V.P. or litigation associate?


      • Classic response by a man.

        Don’t try to console your fear of debate with personal stabs.
        Neither. I have no need for men in the plural. Let’s keep this more general, and less about my specific personal preferences. Thanks.


      • Whorefinder’s use of “Classic projection by a woman” is as much a retort as it is personal stab. However “Classic response by a man” is pure dig. Just sayin’


      • Classic response by a man.
        —-Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

        Don’t try to console your fear of debate with personal stabs.
        —I asked you a question, and you avoided answering it. Who has a fear of debate here?

        I have no need for men.
        —Because they have no need for you. Fattie.

        Let’s keep this more general, and less about my specific personal preferences.
        —Because you got caught projecting your own little ego and got smacked around for it.

        lol woman.


      • Why are you so intimidated by women is what I want to know.
        Why rush to poke holes in my response? I had an argument that neither favored women nor put blame on them.

        I’m 5’8” and weigh 120 lbs. Really?
        Way to cut out the important part of that sentence out… “in the plural”! Because, contrary to popular belief- I believe in being faithful. Raised that way and don’t intend on changing. This is ridiculous, I chose not to explain this earlier because it would just cause a whole other string of arguments about my personal preferences from non-believers.
        As for not debating your question, you and I both know it wasn’t a question worthy of being answered. You were being rhetoric.


      • Why are you so intimidated by women
        —lol. Note the feminazi mind: even questioning a woman’s logic is being “intimidated” by them. Spin, hamster, spin!

        Why rush to poke holes in my response?
        —-Because there are so many to poke.

        I had an argument that neither favored women nor put blame on them.
        —No. You desperately attempted a femicunt’s “equalist” spin on the issue when it clearly didn’t apply.

        I’m 5’8” and weigh 120 lbs.
        —Of course you are. Fattie.

        Because, contrary to popular belief- I believe in being faithful.
        —to an alpha.

        Raised that way and don’t intend on changing.
        —unless a bigger alpha comes along.

        As for not debating your question, you and I both know it wasn’t a question worthy of being answered.
        —lol. When cornered, the feminazi will “choose” not to answer any questioning of her logic, because it is “beneath” her pretty princess, sausage-resembling fingers. Note how entitled she is; she deigns what is “worthy” to respond to, based on how much of a logical pickle she’s in.

        Fact: Women get wet when a man backturns her.

        Fact: Men don’t.

        Fact: You have been pwned, woman.


      • “sausage-resembling fingers”

        Ouch. whorefinder wins the internet for the day with that brutal takedown.


    • Keep crawling, girl. I would do the same.

      Cognitive dissonances are nasty.


    • “usually the guys respond like they have been rejected, and lose interest”

      Not only that, but we will assume it’s impolite, like any other sane person would.
      Girls would assume the same thing, but the mighty hamster wouldn’t allow that to interfere with the laws of evolution.


      • “but we will assume it’s impolite”
        – And for some, whether one wishes to expend sincere energy toward casually interacting further with such an individual. Or the uncivil atmosphere she created. But if or when so, and in what capacity, if one wishes to play politics and recover socially from the rudeness.

        If one, for the appearance of social grace, decides to overlook the deliberate slight, and explore her nuances within the surroundings one could determine the degree of causal ignorance.
        And then decide the worth of amending the situation in some impervious manner. But she’ll have to try that much harder to get my attention next time.

        Or in due time go for another Artois. None of us are here for a long time.


    • See, it’s complicated. On the one hand, guys don’t want a beta chick who gets frame-controlled and bullied by everyone else, not for a relationship at least. I want a girl to stand up for herself. But I also want her to actually like me.

      The same stuff applies, you don’t want to jump straight in with a guy, or else A) he’ll think you’re slutty and B) he’ll think he’s suddenly become the man, and therefore can do better. But you also don’t want to be running back-turn game on him.

      I hear politeness and non-stalkery interest works best…


  18. “Heartiste: Nope. It’s definitely gender specific. When girls pull this backturn shit on guys, usually the guys respond like they have been rejected, and lose interest.”

    I agree. Which raises the question – when “girls” backturn, are they rejecting, or is it a shit test show of interest?


  19. on November 1, 2011 at 7:17 pm Big Game Hunter

    I once did this accidentally. LOL. Long boring story to anyone else but me.

    I was going after this maybe 8,5 to 9- girl in a mixed group of mostly 6 to 7,5 girls and a couple of decent looking beta guys, and I think I was making a good impression by showing some… fairly “alternative” (to the usual world-embracing leftist BS seen here in universities) political and social views. The discussion was mostly politics. This wasn’t a bar environment or anything like that, so direct game wouldn’t have worked, especially for me. She disagreed with me a whole lot, but wasn’t ignoring me and was actually talking more not less, never a bad sign. But then one of my mates came up behind me to show me a fantastically retarded drunken (in the middle of the f’n day!) text message he’d gotten from someone, and called out my name, and I just turned my back towards the group and faced my mate on instinct and impulse, not thinking about what I was doing. Right at the time she was saying something to me that I guess she thought was insightful (she had looks, but not all that much brains). I talked with my friend for maybe thirty seconds before turning back towards the group and her, and she had this look on her face like someone just hit her with a frying pan! She was clearly, obviously offended that I’d ignore her so blatantly. But after that, she’d literally not talk to anyone else at all, if they asked her something directly, she’d answer it with maybe a single sentence and get right back to what I said previously. When I replied to someone else, she’d just talk right over others to me like she couldn’t let anyone else have my attention. I figured I had a decent shot and ended the conversation with a made up “i gotta go, but we’ll continue the conversation later” and just bluntly told her to meet me that night at a bar. She didn’t even think, just asked me when and gave me her number. I had an automatic shit-eating grin, and needless to say, the guys around we’ren’t too happy, heh.

    Later in the night, we did meet up, but there was not a word of politics talk. I’m not massively alpha, more confident among men than women. Tall and in shape, sure, and I’ve learned a lot from places like this blog, but I’m not rich or handsome, more like eccentric looking. And I’ve been grown up to be nice and beta, and I’m not the most alpha in the head either I guess. I wasn’t expecting too much from the night, but tried to do my most alpha and hope that her good looks would bring me attention by way of preselection. Anyway, it didn’t go at all like I expected. She literally came on to me out there, right away. In the first minute after we met up outside the place, she clearly intentionally brushed her chest up against my arm and played with her hair probably half of the time. I was so surprised I actually almost chickened out. Luckily, the spirit of Mystery and Roi.. Heartiste were with me, and I managed not to jump up and down in excitement like an idiot. Inside I ordered myself and her a drink (I tried not even asking her what she’d like, and chose myself) and told her she should’ve worn something that showed more of her shoulders (the real me would’ve said she looked honestly fantastic, but I tried to be more alpha than that) but that I liked the color. First, I thought I went too far there, having said practically nothing “nice” to her at any point, but fuck that. If anything, it got her more interested. She actually replied she could always go back and change – with a smile, not in a temper tantrum threat sort of way. I downed my drink first before saying anything, so I was again kind of ignoring her, before I thought I’d just ask and see how far I get. She was throwing IOIs everywhere so why not. I think my exactly line was, delivered with a grin: “No, better we get to my place and I make you read a few things. Or I could just spank you until you learn what the world is really like.” Sounds idiotic when you read it here, at least to me. But it worked. LOL. We did leave for my place, and we had sex. She was tight and hot, and not as slutty as I’d expected – most girls that look like her have LOTS of experience. She’d try all kinds of stuff when told, but felt to me that she was trying to do something she’d seen done but had little actual experience with. But it was a lot of fun anyway. BTW, I did spank her a couple of times just for the hell of it, and she seemed to love it. The whole thing grew to a real relationship, lasting for three months of lots of sex and increasingly kinky sex at that. Eventually, I broke it up with her because of.. well, being a beta, I guess. I enjoyed sex with her, but she wasn’t that smart, and I’ve always wanted a girl I could actually talk about interesting stuff with. Foolish dreaming, maybe, but that’s me, and I felt like I was in relationship with a sex bot more than human, haha. She was very surprised by it, and kept contacting me almost a year after it. I still hear from her at times, by way of random text message or call. I tried to handle the breakup in a niceguy way, telling her that she was a good girl and deserved someone better than me.

    Looking back, I think the accidental backturn at the right moment was the thing that got her. I don’t know why and how that could have worked like that, but it did, and after that, I’ve tried something similar a few times and it’s often worked to get the female in question into chasing me. The more I understand women, the less I understand them. LOL.


    • You Sir are beta as fuck. Stop saying LOL all the time, total beta move. “please love me, I’ll even explain to you where you’re supposed to laugh at my writing lol”. Also:


      But cool story bro. You sound like a nerd. Sapiosexuality is nothing to be ashamed of, embrace that shit. I love smart girls.


      • Bit harsh Ian.


      • Yeah I’m kind of a dick.


      • That’s what she said!


      • on November 3, 2011 at 12:59 pm humansocialdynamics

        I’m not even gonna pay you out for that. But you’re leaving yourself wide open.


      • on November 2, 2011 at 8:20 pm Big Game Hunter

        You should’ve seen me about two years ago. Would’ve been a lot more than a couple LOLs. Still haven’t done away with them entirely, but I’m in the process of doing it, as they say.

        And yeah, beta, and a nerd. I blame my parents for that, boohoo. And perhaps natural personality as well. I’m just not a natural asshole (in the sense that would be useful to display confidence). So to actually game, I have to do a lot of thinking about what to do and say, but compared to my usual beta shit, the difference in how women react to me is enormous. This stuff does work, even for someone like me. I doubt I’ll ever be able to really “internalize” game so it comes naturally, without thinking, but this is still a ridiculously big improvement. Thanks to all you guys for that.

        Paragraphs are my enemy. In addition to being beta, I’m also lazy. At least I use punctuation marks. Occasionally. Trying to improve on this stuff, too. Appreciate the reminder. “Harsh, but fair.”

        Smart women would be exactly my taste, but the problem is that finding them is a challenge. No, it’s almost fucking impossible, it feels. And the rare smart woman I see is then almost always either hideously ugly (and trust me, I’m not overly demanding on the looks department) or just so asexual that there’s no point. Can’t we have a somewhat balanced woman, who has at least some brains and interest in sex, and doesn’t look like a monster from the swamps? I guess not. Insert sounds of a violin playing sadly here, I guess.


  20. on November 1, 2011 at 7:45 pm Manuel Dexter

    And it was his cock crowing.

    funny guy.


  21. Be desireless. Be excellent. Be gone


    • All I Need to Know About Game I Learned From Tao of Steve.

      Dorky as it is in parts, ugly as the chicks are, and unwatchable as the ending is, it has one clarion virtue: keep it simple. When the mission is boiled down to three solid precepts, there isn’t much to overthink in the moment of truth.

      ZEN, you people. Zen.


  22. @ Born Again Alpha I’ve witnessed the same social phenomena occurring within bar scenes and pubs, your right about your observation, the more “assertive” you are towards the bartenders, the more they respect you. You have to keep in mind that within those establishments, these bartenders have social status or can DHV simply on the basis that as a CUSTOMER, YOU CHOSE to SPEND YOUR MONEY, in that particular establishment. So these bartenders KNOW if they can act dismissive towards you, and you’re still willing to spending YOUR MONEY on THEM, then yes, they have pegged you as a mark or insert any derogatory adjective to describe people of low social value. Now expand that concept towards society in general, this is how the game is played. People work hard to gain the attention or validation of others that they perceive as DHV than themselves. Individuals with asshole personality traits, and behavior will make people realize that you are not effected by other persons opinons or feelings towards you. I always say this phrase and believe it full heartedly; “Nobody likes the asshole, but everyone respects the asshole for being an asshole”, interpreted as, the described person at the very least of their psychological make-up possess the conviction to be unashamed and truthful about their intentions and desires. Peole respect those who are 100% congruen with their beliefs, whether these beliefs are considered ‘right” or “wrong”, benefical or destructive. Think of any religous figure or social/ political icon, to tyrants and dictators.

    @Evil Alpha GAME works on EVERY woman because GAME is the art and science of manipulating, or if you perfer, managing social interactions. Now the tactics one may utilize when running GAME to enhance a man’s perceived attractiveness in the mind of a woman, is what differenciates success or failure with a woman. Women love men with game, now if the woman in question isn’t feeling a particular man, it is attributed to his inability to properly present GAME, not GAME itself.


    • Nah. Game is powerful, but not omnipotent. It has limitations.e.g. sexual orientation.


    • However, just like with over-gaming, I have stopped spending money in my friend’s pub altogether because his staff, particularly the barmaids, were total cunts to everyone. Who the fuck wants to spend their money in a bar where they act like you are privileged to be served by them?

      Doesn’t help that he started staffing his pub with a critical mass of lesbian man-haters. Really hasn’t helped his business.


  23. That’s a brilliant move! I usually tend to casually break eye contact, and slightly turn away to observe the party, when a girl I’m working starts getting involved in a story. I’ll ask girls to repeat themselves on occasion, too.

    But just straight up walking away? Give her some solid Gina Tingles and get the juices flowing and by the time you come back you’ve sent her hampster into warp drive.

    Good shit man – nice picture too, really helped me understand exactly how to walk away and what to expect from her.


  24. Great post mate.

    “When you give her the backturn after her repeated attempts to coerce compliance from you, know that you have seduced her mind. You’ve created a disturbance in the force. A rift to a parallel universe has opened. Now she will feel an urge to seduce you.”

    Bahaha… Its like it triggers some kind of brain malfunction which causes the alpha patterns in her mind to change… like in the matrix when tank explains how the agents are trying to crack morpheus’ mind… once his alpha patterns change the agents can get whatever they want.

    Once her alpha patterns change she’s yours. Even if ten seconds ago she was cold as ice. The change can happen in the space of a few seconds.

    It’s an unbelievable sight to behold.


  25. Fucking backturns! How do they work?


  26. P.S. Five minutes of alpha, cont’d, or….women will always love totalitarianism:


  27. I’ve done this without realizing it’s a technique.

    A comment and a question:


    At a big party once a girl who I’d been gaming, approached me and asked to try some cocktail I’d been talking about and mixing.

    I said: “Oh, maybe later” and walked away.

    The vibe I got from this was just pure lust.

    People watching didn’t know what she had said to me and what I had said to her but commented…wow, whatever you said she was eating it up.

    The question:

    If I’m at a party with another girl…and girls I’m gaming approach me, how do I stoke interest but not kill their pursuit?

    What I’ve done so far…is never acknowledge I’m with someone and let their imaginations run wild about who it is I’m with…they can assume it’s my gf, or friend or date…

    I never answer straight and keep it vague.


  28. I do this all the time to a girl who follows me around like a puppy dog. Then again, she’s stuck on me like a flippin parasite and has no intention of going away. And, that’s what happens when you rock that little world that lives inside her mind. You can treat her like shit, tell her you don’t want her, and she still thinks your the bomb.


  29. A total chick move – and I love it. Throw their game back on them, or better yet, employ it on them before they have the chance to do it on you. One thing I had to learn is to make friends with other women whom I wouldn’t otherwise be able to endure talking to, and play off them. This can be overdone though.


  30. This picture says it all…


  31. @ Big Game Hunter.

    I like your story.


  32. Off topic, but Man Woman & Myth blog has a great video on Feminism that will give you the creeps. Feminists should watch it and realize where their doctrine came from.


    • It also had direct ( yet hidden ) support from the First Directorate of the KGB.

      They’d run around London and New York buying up the latest screed of a Feminist so as to put her on the best seller’s lists.

      Such prominence would then trigger endless talking head appearances for radical positions across the networks – and speaking engagements.

      This type of manipulation of Western culture cost peanuts. So they did it time and again.


  33. Another point to be considered is that turning your back creates a certain self discipline on your own part. If you can ignore a female under these circumstances, then you train yourself to do so under other circumstances. This way, you are not desperately chasing after ever female who gives you a second look. You create an internal power, to which women will respond in the long run. More critically, you will also be able to blow off women and thus put yourself higher up the feeding chain.

    That which does not kill me makes me stronger, and all that sort of jazz.


  34. Man this blog is f’ing chock full of village explainer types these days and they do not write well.

    At least Gorbachev had rudimentary style.


  35. bad picture!
    where is the pee pee?

    [Heartiste: Mybad! I totally forgot to include the winger wanger.]


  36. LOL manboobz twin, this site

    For the record, there is no need to be casual about it. Ignoring a woman at any point after she has shown interested in you will suffice


  37. Heartiste, this is off topic, but I remember your tweet about the asian woman who developed some rare condition that accelerated her looks. Here’s a video of it.