Friendzoned By A Whore

A more nauseating example of inept betatude would be hard to find. Reader Will sent a link to this plaintive wail from a forum member (I have no idea what communities these forums are meant to serve) who is perplexed that a whore he visits regularly no longer sees him “that way”.

been seeing the same prostitute for a few months. Lost my virginity to her, only person I’ve ever fucked. She’s semi attractive and not too expensive. Normally do it in a hotel but I can’t afford it and just invite her back to my place. We fuck for the amount of time I paid for. Just as she is about to leave she sees my dvd of an old film called “a matter of life and death”. Says thats her favourite film, asks if she can watch it. We watch a film together, we don’t do anything. She phones up the next day and asks if I want to hang out. When we meet up I ask if I can have sex with her. She tells me no, because she thinks we have gotten too close. asks if we can be friends. Did I get friendzoned by a prostitute? What can i do to fuck her again?

To be LJBFed by a whore is quite an accomplishment. It’s like a restaurant manager turning away a thundering herd of famished NAAFA members. Some people are so disgusted by their clientele they’re willing to take a hit to the bottom line.

Let’s suspend disbelief about the anecdote above for a moment so that we can extract the valuable game lessons contained therein.

1. Girls who see you as long-term boyfriend material will be less likely to put out for you in a timely manner.

2. Girls who have fucked you but begin to have feelings for you will start to withhold sex in hopes that an emotional connection can grow, free from the confusing entanglement of sex. Girls often believe, with some justification, that a “love connection” — aka your efforts to remember trivial details about them — can only emerge in an emotional greenhouse where your needs as a man are left outside in the cold.

3. It’s nearly impossible to turn an overtly paid sexual outlet into an emulated unpaid sexual outlet. This is why you should never tip strippers you intend to bang.

4. Making it a habit to pay for sex will corrupt a man’s ability to relate to women, and his willingness to learn how to seduce them. This is why men who have to pay for sex are rightly classified as loser omegas. The need to turn to whores for sexual relief, plus the distance from women’s particular psychological needs that paying for sex creates, renders the john almost useless as a potential mate without the crutch of cash in advance.

5. When a whore despises you so much she refuses your money, kill yourself. When a whore feels glimmers of real closeness to you that she refuses your money, the last thing you want to do is dispatch with her attempts to relate to you as a non-john by immediately requesting sex when you hang out with her. That’s just autistic, son.

6. Never watch a film with a girl if you don’t plan on touching her during it. A two hour non-sexual vibe will dampen a tingle faster than a ripped fart. In front of her friends.

7. To a whore, a nonsexual beta male friend is way more valuable than a lover or a fuckbuddy, the latter of whom she has an unending stream of applicants to appreciate. You win over a girl like this by making your emotional friendship reward contingent upon her available orifice reward.

8. Whores are riddled with disease. And the ones who aren’t are soulkilled to the point that a relationship with them is basically an excuse to fulfill a cuckold fetish. The only good reason I could see for wanting to be friends with one is the benefit of capitalizing on her social circle, which undoubtedly consists of plenty of non-whore hot chicks.


  1. “…which undoubtedly consists of plenty of non-whore hot chicks.”



    • I have no way I knowing this because I have never been with a whore but you would think that a whore would have whore friends, because back in highschool all you had to do was look at the whore’s friends and you could see the rest of the whores at school.

      Whores usually hang out with whores.


    • “Non-whore hot chicks”? Jumbo shrimp?


      • Anon has it right. The biggest egg the author laid with that unfortunate sentence is in assuming that her friends were somehow cut from a different cloth.

        We know what he meant but aspies won’t.

        Since the feminists and White Knighters are trying to criminalize men for this stuff, it’s really bad for men’s rights as well as proper understanding of most women, while they are at their hottest, to write like there’s that much of a difference.

        Sure, pro vs amateur is a good distinction but let’s get real.


    • To keep things in perspective, this rich doctor who just threw away everything because of his one-itis for a 33 year old single mom, is more than a billion times more pathetic than he would be if he had constantly relied only on his money to get off with a variety of younger women who weren’t single moms:

      He had a half million dollar home and status as a renowned surgeon, but he still felt he had to shoot his ex-gf in the head and face death row.


      • His money could have given him a different amateur 18 year old every night.

        One-itis and pedestalization are the biggest components of beta males.


      • chicks dig jerks.


      • Oneitis is one thing, shooting chicks in the head is another.

        He had “issues” according to the articles, and I don’t think he had problems getting chicks since he was cheating on his ex-GF.

        The dude is a 300 pound trauma surgeon & former 18-year Special Forces weapons expert… someone who’s attracted to blood & gore and weapons probably ain’t all that right in the head, which is why the single mom, PSYCHIATRIC nurse (i.e., crazy) had an immediate crush on him according to the news.

        But who’s more pathetic – him or his GFs?


      • Except you forgot to mention one important detail:He a NIGGA!!


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    “4. Making it a habit to pay for sex will corrupt a man’s ability to relate to women, and his willingness to learn how to seduce them. This is why men who have to pay for sex are rightly classified as loser omegas. The need to turn to whores for sexual relief, plus the distance from women’s particular psychological needs that paying for sex creates, renders the john almost useless as a potential mate without the crutch of cash in advance.”

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    • Are these for realz? What a great gift for that special someone!


  3. Maybe you know a better class of whores than the ones I’ve met. They don’t have “non-whore hot chicks” as friends. Their friends are other whores and drug dealers.


    • I know, right? What does he think she does in her spare time, knit doilies? She’s either fucking other johns, doing drugs, or having domestic disputes with a guy who is no stranger to violence.


    • the whores i know are girls who’re fiending for coke, cosmetic surgery and designer bags. their female friends are models, stylists, haidressers etc. their male friends are photografers, drug dealers, djs, and club owners etc.

      most are part-timing. they’re usually law or med students. some are models, unsuccessful business owners or just professional girls living above their means.

      many girls are whoring 4 monies. the “pure” girl betas dream about is sometimes a whore. this i know, because i used to be part of the secret society. now i’m a father to son, so i care for men and boys and i’ll out them hoes, but obviously only infront of a chataeu audience. i’m not retarded.


      • This is more accurate than the super low class trailer trash vision that guys on the east coast of the US have.

        You described more about what it is like on the west coast of the US where it’s a very different game from the east coast. On the east coast, the PUA industry and its theories and assumptions got started. East coast PUA’s tend to believe that there is a big difference between a normal materialistic girl and a whore and this isn’t always the case.

        And a man who gets a 24 year old for free who gave herself to sugar daddies and a professor or two (for better grades) when she was 18, is more of a beta than her benefactors were 6 years earlier.

        They got younger, hotter, tighter and he got the stale leftovers.

        Hell, if you sleep with a woman for free even a few minutes after someone else paid her, you’re more of a chump than he is.

        Think about it.


      • Heh, heh… future female doctors moonlighting as whores.

        Somebody’s been watching too many Lifetime Movie Of The Week offerings.


      • Greg,

        My brother used to do a hooker in L.A. who was a lawyer, and she later hired him as her associate when she opened a law office in South Florida.

        My hooker ex-girlfriend used to work in the same hotel in Connecticut where a married female surgeon who made $350K set up shop one night a month. She’d make up some story for hubby, and fuck 5-7 guys in a night, for money, but primarily for the shits and giggles.


      • Personal anecdotes are one thing… statements like “most are part-timing. they’re usually law or med students” is quite another.

        Most recreational “pin money” whores are not future doctors and lawyers… well, maybe I’ll give you the lawyers.


      • what part of “the whores i know” didn’t you understand?


  4. on June 13, 2012 at 1:35 pm ThatNorwegianGuy

    This guy deserves some kind of award.


  5. This is like winning the gold medal in the FriendZone Olympics. Slow clap.


  6. on June 13, 2012 at 1:36 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    “She phones up the next day and asks if I want to hang out.”

    She actually called him — he can’t be totally Omega.

    “When we meet up I ask if I can have sex with her.”

    Oh, wait yes he is. There are two ways to read this. One is that she liked him and he insulted her by continuing to behave like she was his whore. Maybe she was trying to un-whore zone herself. She did make contact with him again, so my guess is his behavior made her IOI turn sour.

    The other idea of what happened, of course, is what’s written in the post.


    • I think the movies have poisoned the poor guys’ mind. Real life isn’t Pretty Woman or Trading Places, it’s more like he’s the stalker from the Body Guard.


      • Uh, actually, real life is a lot like Pretty Woman and Trading Places.


      • on June 13, 2012 at 8:07 pm Days of Broken Arrows

        Yep. There’s a subject for a post or ten. How the movies have effed with people’s perception of relationships. Frank Zappa said love songs were the problem; I think movies are.


      • I agree, but using as examples two of the only movies in history that portrayed hookers realistically – as real human beings, wanting to marry rich guys just like other chicks, not laying there and enduring sex, and not kicking the guy out at the exact moment the time is up – misses the point.


      • Dirk is right on this. Pretty Woman was fairly accurate except a man like the one Richard Gere played would not eventually marry her.

        Outside the east coast of the US, you wouldn’t believe how many young females look to that film as inspiration. If you live on the east coast, you will need to stop carrying too many preconceived notions of who these women are or can be.

        Heartiste’s advice is good enough in the post, but any young man is shooting himself in the foot if he pedestalizes women so much as to believe that upper middle class girls don’t look to Pretty Woman for inspiration, again, outside the east coast of the US.

        PUA ideology must not be used to pedestalize women as mostly good non-whores. I can see that this is done to get men to up their game, but one needs to be careful about that.

        A real alpha frame won’t assume a babe in question hasn’t already rolled for a few c notes.


  7. This might be a troll job. Looks like this comes from the 4chan forums.


  8. Maybe he should try letting her sleep. It worked in Catch-22 🙂


  9. Seen this on 4chan. It’s a troll copypasta for /r9k/ that’s been on lately.


  10. That guy forgot to Shark-Shock her. (This is by far my favorite PUAism)


  11. She phones up the next day and asks if I want to hang out

    Free meal attempt?


  12. I fucked hundreds of prostitutes in 5 different countries over the last 10 years. And I seduced around 15 non-whores (froms 6s to 9s, all under 30) during the last 3 years, since I learned about game.
    I’m not particularly loserish. I have a decent job, I’m maybe an 8 on the looks/height/muscularity scale, got a decent social circle, and I can be the center of attention if I feel like it (depending on the set and my energy levels). I’m not a master of crimson arts but my social skills are above average. They always have been, I just needed game to figure out what women truly want, and until then, hookers were the easiest way the fulfill my manly needs. They still are.

    Just saying that johns are not necessarily the omegas that they’re made out to be. I even encountered a few full-blown casanovas who enjoyed the string of hookers on the side.
    I had a few hookers who had a crush on me. And the frequency of unpaid sex with whores since I learned about game increased.

    I can’t disagree with the fact that it’s more difficult to relate to women when you’re used to fucking 9s an 10s. That goes for puas as well as johns. But I could relate if I really wanted.
    Most women are whorish anyway, so I keep it dark triad 90% of the time. But when I’m feeling emotional and in need of connection, I don’t feel that I’m jeopardizing my chances with the few pearls who trigger my long-term mating algorithm. I just have to be discreet about my lifestyle.

    [heartiste: that’s why i specified that to qualify as a loser john you’d *have* to pay for sex to get it. men who can get laid without paying for it, but choose to visit whores, are not necessarily losers.
    please folks, this is why i’m careful in my choice of words. you could save yourselves a lot of butthurt if you’d read more carefully.]


    • Alright, chief. I’m taking it back…

      Or wait, just leave it. The anti-john crusaders might learn something.


      • I think it’s not the worst point to re-state, since we all know how quick the want-to-be-offended crowd skips over the nuances lol

        “to qualify as a loser john you’d *have* to pay for sex to get it. men who can get laid without paying for it, but choose to visit whores, are not necessarily losers.”

        Yep, very important distinction. I know Alpha guys who’ve gotten hookers just because of the convenience, hotness, lack of drama, and their addiction to regular sex. But they didn’t HAVE to, to get laid.

        I also know a guy who was a hooker (on a website, not like walking the streets lol) himself. his mindset was “wait I can get laid AND get paid for it?? Where do I sign up”. The girls were generally not even horrible looking, but they had seriously fucked up personalities. He made some nice bank for easy-ass work though.


      • (just to clarify he took the hooking job because he gets laid all the time (very alpha and has solid game) and thought it’d be awesome to make money from what he’s doing (seducing girls quickly) anyway, he didn’t take it because he was desperate to get laid)


      • I think it might even be more impressive if he went directly from being desperate to getting paid to get laid.

        Alas, markets don’t work that way, even underground ones.


      • on June 14, 2012 at 3:16 am The Whammer

        Stop the bullshit. Men who get paid for sex 99% of the time are going with homosexuals. Many of them are not even homos themselves but just hustlers. In the rare cases where some wealthier woman hires a man as an escort you can be sure that he’s always someone of her own class who either lost his money or it’s some unusual circumstance where he needs to make extra money. He’s still going to need the same class and alpha qualities he would if he were her bf. As I said, this sort of arrangement is very rare and the reason she’s hiring im as an escortis not just for sex because it would be a rare female who couldn’t get a guy to fuck her especially if she’s the sort with the money to hire an escort.


      • uhh ya dude I was at his place when some of the girls came over. I almost ran a devil’s 3-way on one of his clients with him but she was too annoying and didn’t have enough $ on her for both of us lol

        He’s a good looking dude with super tight game. Some of the chicks would pay him just to go out with them and make ex-BFs jealous and shit but they all ended up fucking him.

        The city I’m in right now has an abundance of 28-45yo lonely career pussy who didn’t focus on relationships and don’t have much time for one or have such repulsive feministy career-woman personalities that they can’t find men who’ll put up with them…unless they drop a couple grand lol


      • can’t find ANY men unless they put up a couple grand? ya? really?


      • yareallypua

        uhh ya dude He’s a good looking dude with super tight game. Some of the chicks would pay him just to go out with them and make ex-BFs jealous and shit but they all ended up fucking him.


        Now this is the kind of game you’re good at
        teaching other dudes.


      • “can’t find ANY men unless they put up a couple grand? ya? really?”

        I know right? Here’s why that happens for the guys who haven’t met this type of woman yet. These girls are actually pretty common in my current city just because of the corporate culture here:

        1) The chick is full of herself, and she keeps herself in shape and buys herself the latest fashions and does her pilates and shit so she thinks she deserves a super stud rich jock awesome guy. So automatically 99% of the guys she runs into on a daily basis aren’t worth her time in her mind because she’s a special amazing princess. As a result, 99% of the guys she meets don’t make her gina tingle because she assumes they’re unworthy losers.

        2) The chick is generally older, in her 30s, so she has even LESS time to waste on the “wrong” guy because she subconsciously knows her baby-clock is ticking. So that 99% of guys she’s not into aren’t even worth her time for a fuck because she thinks they’ll get clingy on her (since she’s SO amazing in her mind) and she doesn’t want to waste months with some chump since again, in her mind she deserves the amazing super prince ASAP.

        3) Because she can’t admit to herself that she fucked up by focusing on her career, she’s fed into the Sex & The City myth and built herself a personality where she thinks she “intimidates” men with her success and again she thinks all the men around her are beneath her. So most of the 99% of men don’t want anything to do with her because she has the personality of a stuck up spoiled brat princess, and the ones in that 99% who are masochistic enough to attempt to get with her get shot down by her because she thinks she’s better than them.

        Remember girls don’t give a shit about notch count. Their hypergamy is making them go for the highest status over the ease of the lay. A hot girl can be hard up as fuck for a lay but if she’s surrounded by lame beta males she’ll go home alone to her vibrator because that’s better than settling for what SHE considers a loser (doesn’t matter whether YOU think he’s a loser or not, it’s her opinion that counts in this decision).

        4) She keeps herself busy with her career because every minute she spends alone with herself reminds her that she’s failed at being a woman. I think Rollo(?) had a really good article titled something like “The To-Do List” that talked about how women always have SO MANY things to do to keep themselves from thinking about how alone they are lol but I can’t find that link right now. Anyway, she legit doesn’t have much free time to spend and no reason to free time up since all the men around her are pathetic to her. And she makes a bunch of money to keep her in new clothes, pay for yoga class, getting her hair done etc. hoping she stumbles across that 1% of men who she’s legit attracted to and wants to invest time in.

        Of course that 1% of men is the 1% of men with choice and they’re sure as shit not gonna choose HER lol but she doesn’t know that because Sex & The City told her he’d fall in love with her.


        So what do we have here? A rich girl who has tons of money to burn, decent looking chick who’s convinced herself that no man is worthy of her and filled her life with so much bullshit that she doesn’t even have time to date around and even if she could either she can’t stand the men or they can’t stand her. But she still gets horny. So what does she do? She hires a guy like my buddy, who’s good-looking, won’t take up much of her time, is clearly part of the 1% because GIRLS PAY HIM TO FUCK THEM (lol, talk about social proof), and he’s got solid game so he gives her the exact seduction she wants a 1% guy to give her. Except that he charges for his time. 🙂

        The logical conclusion to this is that the girl starts to fall in love with him since he’s more of an alpha male than any of the guys she’s surrounded by on a daily basis and his game is so tight that she gets all those experiences she wishes a 1% guy would appear in her life and give her. And he has no other competition with her because she isn’t interested in other guys, so he just seems more and more amazing to her as she ignores that she’s handing him money for his interest the same way guys who think strippers have fallen in love with them keep going back to the strip-club emptying their bank accounts to spend time with the girl.

        And that’s exactly what happened with one of the chicks, she stalked the fuck out of him for a while lol Most of the other chicks have been pretty normal but this one paid well so he saw her pretty frequently and that was a recipe for disaster…the other girls he only saw like once a month or so.

        So ya, it happens. YOU might fuck this chick without her having to pay you a grand, but she wouldn’t fuck YOU (no offense, she’s crazy). 🙂


      • Ok, so what you mean is subjectively she can’t find any man, but of course objectively she could find plenty of perfectly adequate truly equal men if she was reasonable.


      • “Now this is the kind of game you’re good at teaching other dudes.”

        No idea what that means lol Being good looking matters on online dating sites which is where he got his clients from (not a dating site, but an escort site), because the girls are logically judging you by your looks first since online sites can’t demonstrate your personality and make her gina tingle. I’m uglier than him and shorter/chubbier, but my game is as tight (tighter on a good night) and the one girl was up for a 3-some with us, but she’d never have picked me out of the escort site lineup by my picture lol


      • “Ok, so what you mean is subjectively she can’t find any man, but of course objectively she could find plenty of perfectly adequate truly equal men if she was reasonable.”

        Yes exactly. BUT because she’s unreasonable and not going to become reasonable (hell society encourages her to BE unreasonal, you go grrrrl), it’s irrelevant to even discuss it objectively is all. 🙂


      • damn, yaR’s posts are insane.

        99% of the guys she runs into on a daily basis aren’t worth her time in her mind because she’s a special amazing princess

        he must be in DC lolza
        I had a similar thought about the hotness, girls like the new Mrs. Draper who get married to rich apex alphas in their prime. She’s fucked for life because right now, she is a princess superstar and has a guy who will make those things happen for her. There’s literally no way that can’t screw up a person’s mind.


    • I think if most women knew about your past, they wouldn’t want a relationship with you. You’d be okay as a casual acquaintance, but never anything more than that.


    • i can second the part about whores and game. the three times i have banged whores on duty, i was walking home from the club through an area with whores and i got approached. i ran game and got freebies with a thai chick, a brazillian chick and half price with a nigerian. the nigerian served me really well though, lol.


    • How could Charlie Sheen be a loser? Duh! Winning!


  13. 4. Making it a habit to pay for sex will corrupt a man’s ability to relate to women, and his willingness to learn how to seduce them….

    Yeah, and fucking a whore doesn’t feel like sex. Past the part where your dick goes in a hole, I mean. First time I fucked a whore I walked out expecting that victorious postcoital rush that comes after conquering a new piece of ass, and it didn’t come. It just felt like I had had the most elaborate, expensive jerkoff of all time. The pleasure of sex is as much in the conquering as the fucking.

    If you have a night of horrible drunken whiskey dick/ premature ejaculation sex with a girl you actually pulled form the wild, you will still wake up and feel great– “I got laid.” If you have a night of acrobatic kama sutra fucking with a gorgeous nineteen year old pro who was smuggled over in the rusty hull of some freighter out of Korea, you will wake up and feel nothing.


  14. Yeah, there’s really no way to recover from having paid for sex.

    She probably only wants to sell her body to faceless strangers, because it’s easier emotionally for her. (Who knows?)

    But the odds of her ever seeing him as boyfriend material are now too low to consider. He poisoned that chance the moment her offered her money. He should learn from the experience and move on.

    This reminds me of the movie “True Romance”, except in that case the prostitute’s client didn’t know she was a prostitute and wasn’t the one paying her (his friend arranged it in secret), so when she does fall for him after watching a movie together, it might actually be plausible.


    • Uh no, the theory that they don’t get attached to johns is part of the philosophy of the anti-john crusaders who needed to make men out to be losers in order to get the new laws passed making it a felony for men to solicit.

      In real life, around their mid twenties, these women will try to latch onto someone they think they can possibly hold on to.

      But they know that a guy who knows what she did is likely to wake up and leave at some point.

      So what’s going on is that “He knows too much”. It’s a bad bet for her to stay with a man who knows too much.


  15. I strongly object to your notion that paying for it makes you unable to relate to or seduce women. I had a phase of personal problems in my early twenties and fucked young whores (read college girls) for little money while being in therapy and working through years of repressed issues and anxieties. I could openly not give a shit about these girls and indulge myself. (which, as I learned later, was a turn on for them) And a year later I emerged with a much clearer view about myself and my expectations from a relationship (plus the confidence that comes with a sizable notch count).

    Not cheap though.


    • Alright. I take it back. Just read the editor’s notes a couple posts above.
      As usual, context matters.


      • on June 13, 2012 at 11:57 pm Convict Moll

        Some girls like to boost a man’s confidence and don’t mind being one of his first “notches”.


  16. Making it a habit to pay for sex will corrupt a man’s ability to relate to women, and his willingness to learn how to seduce them. This is why men who have to pay for sex are rightly classified as loser omegas.

    For regular payers of prostitutes I guess this is true. And you did say, “habit.”

    But I also think it depends on frequency and territory. Especially if you are in a place like Thailand or any number of cities I can think of in multiple countries, where pay-to-play is almost the norm and accepted.

    Also, I wonder about virgin betas/omegas or dudes who are afraid to even touch a woman. Or think about the hover hand schlubs, so fucking afraid of female skin they can’t even touch a goddamn bare shoulder or arm. Sounds ridiculous, but, do a search, look at the photos. Touching a woman’s breasts or vagina would cause these wimps to suffer a heart attack. I would think a paid-in-advance romp may help break their paralyzing fear of a woman’s private parts — if they can ever work up the nerve to make a call to initiate a sexual encounter.


  17. “The only good reason I could see for wanting to be friends with one is the benefit of capitalizing on her social circle”

    In other words it s good way to meet local politicians and prominent members of the clergy.


  18. Betas.
    I hate ’em
    YOU hate ’em
    – can’t shoot ’em
    whattyagonna do?


    • Don’t hate em. more betas mean less competition. Sure they can compliment a girl so that their ego shoots through beyond hubble telescope’s reach but game has ways to negate that ego. so all in all more omegas and betas is like more gays which can only do you and me a favor


      • But too many betas will mean that female voters will have too many allies and vote in more draconian laws, such as anti-john laws and age of consent laws, the latter of which will put more alphas in jail.

        It’s important to increase the alpha population of any society if you don’t want the women to take over.


      • that is why sites like these exist, and people like us exist my friend,.to make sure that we exist and exist in minority. being in minority isalways a good thing. sure anti john laws suck, but there is a way around that only don’t expect to have a fruitful marriage with an american chic in america (some do) but chances are very slim in these days but to put simply the system favors women literally supporting alphas you know? and what ever laws you put if you won the woman’s vag. .heart, she will never even report you not even to a city rover. there are even hundreds of abuse cases by alphas whose women do not even say a word to law yoou get what I mean?


  19. Cue Advocatus Diaboli in 5,…4,…3,…


    • Do you really believe that women have peak SMV at 22 instead of 18 or lower, Rollo? I refer to your recent post which was otherwise right on the money.


      • That sounds like a politically correct way to stay friends with “reasonable American female bloggers” and beta “traditionalists” who long for a time period that never existed and who simply don’t have it in them to game women under 22. Saying that women peak in SMV at 22 is a perfect way to ignore the vicious way fembots, churchladies and white knighters have been trying to raise the age of consent. One can rationalize that it’s OK for “traditionalists” to make laws that never existed in history because “we’ve found scientifically that girls are not as hot at 18 as they are at 22”.

        I would measure SMV by asking who would you cancel a date with if the other was suddenly available and both liked you as much and were equal in appearance and personality more or less. Almost every time I’ve been faced with this question in real life, I’ve told the 22 year old that something just came up.

        A smart girl doesn’t get that much more interesting with age because she will be an amazing person already at 18. And a less smart girl who is older than a smart girl doesn’t have any advantage of being more mature. Rather, it is still immediately evident that she’s not as smart. “Time Travelers Wife” made that point as did the film “Beautiful Girls”.

        I know that most males would honestly answer 18 or less as the year of peak attractiveness. The graph that has it at 22 may be accepted by the mainstream blogosphere, however, so hats off to Rollo for producing a great essay that puts a stake in the heart of feminism.

        Feminists will fight the idea that even 22 is too young to admit women peak at.

        But more rational women will notice that Rollo is being generous by writing that.


  20. “4. Making it a habit to pay for sex will corrupt a man’s ability to relate to women, and his willingness to learn how to seduce them.”

    It seems this hit a nerve, so I want participate too. To me too it seems a bit rigid position.

    Probably for game master the chase is important part of the excitement since they had big number and quality of labia. For most betas instead, me included, game is still the way to the squirt and orgasm pleasure, the chase is still seen as some sort of trade off.

    It is like being in a mountain climbing blog. Someone want to buy an helicopter to arrive at the top of the mountain, of course the climbers masters will consider him a loser. But not everyone is interested to climbing, just to arrive at the top and make nice photos for Facebook.

    I mean, I had the impression you say “relate with women” as it is broader than “seduce them”. Maybe I am wrong, but as a former loser beta, not that I am yet outside the tunnel, I answer no thanks I related too much in the past and what did I obtained – kindly schoolmates and coworkers all smiles and holiday tales who stop greeting you and cross the road when you arrive, as soon as you dare ask them out.




  22. “Making it a habit to pay for sex will corrupt a man’s ability to relate to women, and his willingness to learn how to seduce them. This is why men who have to pay for sex are rightly classified as loser omegas.”

    You heard it here first: Charlie Sheen = Lesser Omega.

    [heartiste: i wrote “have to”. HAVE TO. jesus, people, READ. charlie sheen can get plenty of pussy for free, leveraging nothing more than his fame.

    this is why dumbasses ought to be banned from the internet. you have to spell out tacit assumptions, and repeat critical qualifiers, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, just to make a dent in their blocklike skulls.]


  23. Cue Advocatus Diaboli in 5,…4,…3,…






  24. I had a prostitute as a steady girlfriend for about a year.

    I started going to see her as a client a couple of times a month after a (Low SMV) girl I dumped got obsessed with me, stopped eating and collapsed, ended up in clinic. This scared me off ‘bottom feeding’ for sex but at that point I wasn’t confident enough to go after high value girls again.

    I was really enchanted by her.

    The chemistry wasnt bad, she didn’t get wet but I would massage her and get her very relaxed every time before I fucked her, and I made her laugh too.

    I think around the 5th time when I went, after I payed the madam and got into the bedroom with her, she told me she felt bad working (it was the last week of lent and she was religious, a latina) but the madam forced her to, so I didn’t feel right fucking her and spent the hour holding each other and just talking.

    After that she called me and we went for a non-sexual walk one time, then the next time she had her period and was off work she came over to my place and stayed with me for 3 nights, slept in my bed. I never asked her for blowjobs or anything during this time, just holding each other and sleeping together, plus lots of talking, cooking together and that kind of thing. She later told me that this made a big impression on her because she said any other man would have demanded blowjobs and handjobs at least, she also said i was the only man who treated her as a person and not a prostitute. My behaviour during that time was fairly beta, friendly, provider type game, a lot of comfort but flirting too. One time she was folding my clothes for me (she did a lot of stuff like that, cooking, cleaning everything etc, without me asking) and she went through my pockets and I got really angry and she got scared, she later said she thought I was going to hit her. That’s contrast game but it was unintentional.

    After that when she started working again I would pick her up after she finished work a couple of nights a week and she would sleep over at my place, we would kiss (she doesnt with clients) and fuck – by this point she would be very wet by the end of foreplay – no money involved. After that, texting and talking on the phone every few days.

    A month or so later she got in a big argument with her madam (who was taking half the money) so she packed her suitcases and I went down to the brothel and took her to my place, the madam was really furious and I had to calm her down and everything which was pretty scary because the guy who protected her was a gangsterish guy with police connections. She stayed at my place for maybe 10 days until she found her own apartment and then she started working there on her own with no madam.

    That went on for about a year, she had her own apartment where I could drop in and sleep over (out of all the girls i ever dated she was the only one with no parents or roommates), she would cook for me all the time after work or the gym, and I helped her set up her business. I never asked her for money but felt kind of like a pimp in being detached and cool about her job, and teaching her how to talk to clients when they call her and shit like that. She was a really good dancer and she taught me how to dance with her, I have closed girls with dancing since then and that’s mainly because of her.

    It didn’t bother me she was fucking clients in terms of being jealous of them or whatever. She had an average of around 2 clients a day.

    We fucked without condoms after we did an STD test together, she is the only steady girlfriend I had who did this, because she was on the pill.

    She was not a bad person. She sent almost everything she made to her family in her country. She had been working as a hooker for around 6 years when I met her. She got jealous and possessive of me but when my life got kind of directionless and I lost my confidence and attraction she got stuck up and I lost hand so one day we got in a fight and I broke it off. I didn’t really care one way or another. I was never in love with her and by that point I was kind of bored of her. I had cheated on her a couple of times but never with girls as hot as her.

    Sex wasnt bad, a few times she was very passionate, but she would often get disconnected and this would bother me. She was over 30 but she could pass for a lot younger, I would say she was a high 7 with high 8 ass and legs.

    I worry about diseases too. I did STD tests again after we broke up and it says I’m clean but I don’t know about HPV. As far as I can tell there is not much I can do about testing for it or protecting myself from it if I have it. Diseases are the only reason I would advise against it. The new supergonorrhea might be a complete game changer too.

    All her friends were also hookers.


  25. not only friendzoned by a whore, but he has oneitis for a whore.

    about the only way this could get any worse is if she turns out to be a tranny.

    but then again, a virgin wouldn’t know a suspiciously shallow vagina if he fucked it.


  26. on June 13, 2012 at 4:27 pm Senior Beta

    “emotional greenhouse.” Hemingway gold.


  27. It’s like Leaving Las Vegas without the drinking problem. I think it’s sweet.


  28. Leave the Hooker Game to me. About 95% of the posts here are pure genius, but where do I begin with this one?

    Ok, I’ll start with the title, which should read, “HusbandZoned by a Sex-Crazed Nymphomaniac who is Probably into Threesomes, Wants to Grow Old Together, and Gets Off Watching Other Chicks Suck Her Man’s Dick”

    I’m a little short on time, so I’ll just kind of outline some key points:

    1. she’s over at his crib, seeing the lion in his lair, the king in his castle, instead of a hotel room, and wants to watch a romantic movie that emphasizes that life is short;

    2. she doesn’t want to fuck him right afterward, because she’s looking for more. You yourself even note this certainty as a possibility; She’s says she wants to be “friends,” which in this context clearly means she wants more of a relationship, not less; One hooker I know who started seeing one of her payahs free used to beam at the idea that he considered her a “friend”;

    3. as noted above, friends of hookers are usually fellow hookers; in fact, many start out that way, when they find out why their friend always has a shit-eating grin on her face;

    4. As for the near-impossibility of turning a paid sexual outlet into unpaid, I’ve done it about a half-dozen times myself. The girl will suggest it eventually if she’s interested; the guy should not suggest this. Doing things together as “friends” is the perfect route to this – I recommend this guy just do them, not even bring up sex, but be prepared for it. When she’s ready to fuck him for free, which won’t be long – she probably loves sex or wouldn’t be a freelance hooker able to stomach a lifetime of an omega cock she deflowered – she will.

    5. Several studies show hookers have lower STD rates than the general population of women, which makes sense considering that they tend to be with compliant beta and omega males, many of who don’t want to bring back STDs to their wives, as opposed to the sluts that get roguered bareback in the parking lot after running into their old high school quarterback at happy hour.

    6. You give stellar advice about not touching a girl during a movie – except if the girl you are watching with is a hooker than wants to be your girlfriend. “Treat a lady like a whore and a whore like a lady”, or something like that. Didn’t someone just recently comment that Churchill said that. Works every time on the whores. Just a month or so ago I brought a hooker a thong I got free at Vic Secret and her reaction was so over the top, it was like I handed her a gold bar. But she was genuine – that’s how they think.

    My advice to fix the situation: ask her to lunch in a very nice restaurant, tell her you’ll have to get back to the office or wherever, don’t talk about sex or really anything relationship-wise, set up a nice next date with her that you mention before lunch is over like to a theater, opera, or something that chicks like but guys hate, go on that date, again don’t talk about sex the whole night, and be prepared for her to offer you free sex that night.

    Trust me on this. Play it right, and your fourth or fifth date might include another girl, or be to a swingers club.


    • 5. Several studies show hookers have lower STD rates than the general population of women, which makes sense considering that they tend to be with compliant beta and omega males, many of who don’t want to bring back STDs to their wives, as opposed to the sluts that get roguered bareback in the parking lot after running into their old high school quarterback at happy hour.

      you got a link for that Dirk?

      I agree that there’s a good chance that some hookers have had unprotected sex with less men than a lot of easy one night stand girls


  29. What do you pay a hooker for??/




    To leave….

    Very old saying.
    As much as one loves the seduction, the chase and in the end the conquest.

    The drama and attachments of it are just too much…….


  30. “4. Making it a habit to pay for sex will corrupt a man’s ability to relate to women, and his willingness to learn how to seduce them.”

    Not sure I agree with this one, at least on a global scale. A couple of the most alpha guys I know are South Americans who grew up banging whores and who still bang whores when in SA. It doesn’t seem to have stunted their development in the crimson arts. If anything, it’s helped them to view all women as objects. Of course, the whores in Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela are extremely cheap and extremely hot, so a man with a normal sexual appetite is going to have trouble turning those opportunities down.

    OTOH, in the US you have to spend a lot of money to fuck a hot hooker, while the more reasonably priced ones tend to be ugly. So unless you are Charlie Sheen or an old rich guy, you’re probably fucking hookers in the US because you’re desperate.


    • AHE, not true about the cost.

      I have two regular hookers right now. One is cute, blonde, 20, 5’4″, 125, and charges me $100 for what typically amounts to a 3-hour date. Yes, I also pay for the Doritos Tacos after, so make that $108.

      The other is hot, 25, 5″2, 115, and charges me $140 to bang her in a hotel room for a half-hour session that actually lasts longer, and I’ve actually made some of that back from her on some rails.

      They are cheap enough and easily attract the non-desperate.


  31. Friendzoned by a prostitute. I’ve now officially seen it all.

    Last [type]: Stop Caring What other people think about you


  32. Nevermind. I see you’ve already addressed this.


  33. Adding carefully chosen, talented escorts to one’s sexual mix is a double-edged sword. Yes, you are not practicing your seduction skills and the immediate sexual payoff may dull your willingness to learn how to seduce women, but on the other hand you are developing a mentality of abundance. Your subconscious mind doesn’t realize that you paid for them, only that they jumped into bed with you for a good fuck. It feeds your desire for women but kills your sexual needinees.

    On my phone I have the number of an HB7.5 who will meet me the same day, greet me wearing a French maid’s outfit, have me fuck her brains out on her kitchen table, then give me a nice, attentive massage before I go back to work. If, later in the day, I run into an amateur 7.5, do you think this makes me more, or less, likely to flirt with her in an outcome-independent manner?

    If feminism is a sexual trade union, then escorts are the scabs. They cheapen sex, but in a good way. No wonder they used to get run out of town.

    What I avoid like the plague on the other hand is porn – a far greater evil if you want to avoid dampening your sexual fire.


    • Well said.

      Sure, the inclusion of hookers in my menu of pussy dulls my club game, but it strengthens my relationship game since I have options, strengthens my bedroom game since I am getting it regularly (and from hot sex maniacs, to boot), and the balance of factors probably strengthens my day game.

      And I totally agree about the porn. For this reason, I generally limit my spanking out to porn to the 24 hour period after which I have gotten laid.


      • Yes! Relationship game especially.

        If I know I am a phone call away from spending time with a smart, pleasant, feminine, sexually experienced HB7.5 who is eager to fuck and suck, albeit in a professional capacity, will I be more, or less, inclined to tolerate bratty shit from an entitled amateur 7.5?


      • and you don’t need to have a pro as a booty call. It’s not hard to find a virgin who will take you as her first and only customer before she retires and marries someone else in her mid twenties.

        Just don’t expect to be invited to her wedding.

        Wait. I can think of two big occasions when I was invited to the wedding of a woman who did that.

        Both times the woman trusted me, without even having to ask, not to ever reveal the secret of her more adventurous youth.


      • Needless to say, the betas they married were, in fact, getting sloppy seconds. More like sloppy fourths and fifths, but betas don’t care to count.


      • on June 14, 2012 at 7:07 am Convict Moll

        Poor guys.


      • on June 14, 2012 at 11:59 am DirkJohanson

        Its true; finding virgins to fuck you for money as a side girl is like getting water out of a faucet (sarcasm).


    • What I avoid like the plague on the other hand is porn – a far greater evil if you want to avoid dampening your sexual fire.


      And masturbation. Avoid both, and after a week you will have newfound strength to overcome approach fear. Believe it.


      • Porn is a fun way to spend time with my GF, but we have to frequently hit the pause button to relieve the tension.


      • This focus on stopping that seems to be a trend among some PUA bloggers but it smacks too much of men finding excuses to stand aside while right wing feminists and so-called traditionalist males try to take free speech status away from it.

        A. It’s a medical fact that you lose the prostate to cancer if you don’t use it twice every week. A good short video loop can be a lot more disease-free than a second or third rate human option you might have on any given night.

        B. If a man takes a second to stop pedestalizing the hot young ones, who won’t resent the women their age normally featured in these videos and shots, he will find that many get turned on by this stuff and it can become part of faster seduction.

        If you are dating women older than the ones in these videos, that is your fault. You can expect them to possibly be turned off by it, although many would feel they have to try harder to compete.


  34. don’t tell me f-ing hookers is sad and pathetic. I want to read about game all day and pay for sex thinking I’m the man.

    Pathetic. Sorry to shatter your world commentators, but if you are paying for sex, you, by definition, have zero game. You are bypassing using game at all to do what any jackass on the street can do, drop cash to pay for sex. What’s worse is they are guaranteed VIP members of the cock carousel.

    Pretty sure if we did a study of single guys who regularly o pay for sex, because they can or half too (celebrities excluded because they pay for no trouble), you’d would find a deep pool on the bottom of the game curve.

    This is why their butthurtness sounds pretty damn similar to a bitter beta.


    • Ok, Einstein, so when a celeb calculates its not worth his time to spend even just a few minutes using his fame to get laid, he doesn’t have to pay to get laid. But when a non-celeb decides its not worth hours of his time to chase pussy around – cuz it takes far more time for most non-celebs – he must not be able to get laid at all.

      You first paragraph makes no sense – you sure you don’t have a vagina? You should see my non-paying sexual resume.

      As for the cock carousel issue, yes, hookers fuck a lot of guys, but if you look at the reason the cock carousel issue is a negative for a lot of guys, its not because of the number of cocks per se. Its because of ALPHA cocks. Most hookers, unlike most other alpha cock carousel riders, have realized they can enjoy sex with fat middle-aged guys, and don’t need an alpha cock.

      Also as to the cock carousel issue, another problem is that it causes women to become jaded and hate men from being pumped and dumped. Hookers have far more positive interactions with guys because they aren’t constantly being dumped and have money to show for it. Thus, they are far less anti-man than the typical alpha cock carousel riding slut.


      • Paying for pussy when you have no other choice is pathetic.

        Why would anyone pay for something that’s abundant that they can also get for free?

        That’s akin to saying: “I pay for tap water because getting it for free from the sink is too much trouble.”

        The thought of getting a hooker for some sort of release should never even cross a halfway competent males mind. If you are repulsing women so bad you have to consider paying them to be around you, maybe you don’t deserve sex.


      • OK, well, when I start seeing blogs and books and seminars giving advice on how to get tap water, I’ll agree that getting free pussy is like getting tap water.


      • That’s akin to saying: “I pay for tap water because getting it for free from the sink is too much trouble.”

        Water from the “sink” isn’t free. Ever heard of a water/utility bill? You’re paying for every drop.

        Fucking idiot.


      • Nitpicking doesn’t change the value of the statement.

        It might make you feel a little bit better about paying for pussy though. 😉


      • But the value of the statement was low in the first place. It’s a low value opinion, for instance, that makes the assumption that there is much of a difference between pros, amateurs and regular women who like to date rich guys.

        It’s already been established here that feminists and white knighters want PUAs to use whatever logic they like to stand aside as disinterested observers while they criminalize men for treating women like objects, which is what paying is about.

        That’s why it’s already a given here that it’s only beta or omega if you have to pay (aspies have trouble with “have to”), but otherwise it can be fun at times and it sure can speed things up if a girl seems to want a relationship with you but you kill off that idea as well as her ASD (anti-slut defence) by gaming her into rethinking the nature of the relationship you want. If you want it to be wham bam thank you mam, many young women will feel less like sluts if you spell things out and make things openly mutually beneficial.

        A man who pedestalizes women so much that he can’t get off by treating them as objects, as in occasionally saying to non-LTR material something like “instead of me taking you to dinner tonight, how about I give you a hundred bucks and we go at it right now”, is likely on his way to Betasville because of his virgin whore syndrome alone.

        Also, if you do a girl for free as your long term gf this year who got paid by better men two years ago when she was younger and tighter, aren’t you more of a chump? You’re the one licking the used goods.

        Remember that many of the women you might try to pick up in a club have, indeed, sold themselves to some other guy before and, even if they haven’t lost 1% or more of their looks since then, you’re the chump if you go down on a woman “for free” who just took the seed of a sugar daddy two hours before. If they have lost 1% of their looks since giving it away for money, your lower price of “free” doesn’t necessarily mean anything more than her SMV is lower.

        Alphas don’t like to take used goods and I’d agree with you about it being pathetic to deal with a pro who has been around the block, but if you wouldn’t be the first customer who convinced her to take money and broke her in when she was a virgin, then you are more of a moralist than an alpha.


      • Seriously. Notice how butthurt he got when called out on the obvious…..going to a hooker is low-value, you are paying for sex, the qualification to fuck her?… and breathing. And the hookers have more positive interactions with men than regular girls?

        Haha, Holy fuck man, who knew guys can have hamsters this busy too. Dude, they are paid to be nice to you, it’s their job to be pleasant because you are paying them. Jesus, what’s next, talking about how that stripper you met last week really really likes you?


      • Dude, I’m friends with a lot of hookers, dated a lot of hookers free, and yes I think they are, on average, less negative toward guys than the average chick.

        But if your second-hand observations from feminist media sources that claim all hookers are abuse victims contradicts my first-hand experience – not to mention common-sense – than keep on living the illusion you want to live in.


      • “Dude, I’m friends with a lot of hookers, dated a lot of hookers free, and yes I think they are, on average, less negative toward guys than the average chick.”

        I concur with this. I dated a strip club chick for a while and spent a lot of time hanging with the other rippers on and off shift and a big surprise to me was how normal the girls were. A lot of them were drama-lovers and addicted to coke and stuff but in terms of how they view men even tho they’d all make fun of like 90% of the guys that came in (the second the old fat guy in a trucker hat who thinks Jasmine loves him leaves she rolls her eyes and jokes about him) most of them had pretty normal lives with boyfriends and stuff. I think they mentallycategorize clients and “real” guys as two separate things so if a client does something fucked up it doesn’t translate to “all guys are like that”.

        I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, and the girls I hung with were strippers not hookers (tho the two professions sometimes intertwine, but even that was less often than I expected). But I understand what Dirk is saying.


      • on June 14, 2012 at 8:18 am Days of Broken Arrows

        …but if you look at the reason the cock carousel issue is a negative for a lot of guys, its not because of the number of cocks per se.

        To a large degree it is the number. You might want to look up “oxytocin.” It’s a chemical that causes women to bond — with both men and babies. Studies have shown that when women are with guy after guy after guy, it screws with their ocytocin level and they lose the ability to bond.

        And while that might be cool if you’re seeking a one-night stand, settling down with such women results in the modern-day disasters you see (i.e. women abandoning kids, taking up with the pool boy, taking you for your house, etc.). The US is breeding such feeling-less robots.

        Below is one link that talks about this. The fact that I can’t find more means that Google is suppressing this politically incorrect bit of info — there used to be news articles everywhere about this.


      • on June 14, 2012 at 8:22 am Convict Moll

        The “cuddle hormone”.


      • There’s nothing in that article connecting the number of cocks to oxytocin.

        What is does say is that a jerk who is a good lover releases oxytocin. Not to stereotype, but the fat, middle-aged, short, bald-guys wearing tidey-whiteys that make up a good portion of a hooker’s clientele aren’t known for their lovemaking skills, and hence cause the release of less oxytocin than alphas (if any).

        [heartiste: there’s a post in the archives of a study that proves women with higher numbers of partners are worse long-term prospects, because they are more likely to cheat/divorce.]


  35. I guess this hooker related article is the place to link The Great Happiness Space for the guys who haven’t seen it yet lol trust me you want to watch it. It’s about male hookers in Japan who use mad long-term game to keep girls on the hook and paying them thousands of dollars a night just for emotional attention (they don’t even fuck them in some cases):

    There was actually a PUA in our community who went to Japan and worked as one of these guys for a few years and wrote about it and answered questions from other PUAs. He eventually quit though, can’t remember why cause it was a while ago, probably health reasons with all the alcohol consumption haha

    And on hiring hookers while being alpha I link to:

    Generally TotH guys (like myself) will be 100% against hiring a hooker (do whatever floats your boat but that’s not for me), whereas PoS guys (like a lot of naturals) are more likely to get one.


    • P.S. in the Happyness Space watch for the pimp body language on some of these guys. Especially the grey suit guy smoking with a bandaged finger. Dude is alpha as phuck.

      Also notice how the guys have different personalities. The head guy in charge is the closest to a good standard PUAs vibe, out-going and social, funny but able to turn on the drama etc. The alpha guy I mentioned above probably wouldn’t do as well as the head guy in a nightclub but once he’s one on one with the girl he’d be as solid as the extroverted guy.

      My point is that these guys don’t try to change their personalities, they embrace and magnify them. They have chill James Bonds and funny dancing monkeys and social extrovert types instead of making everyone fit one mold.

      In terms of real pickup, if you’re the James Bond type, skip going to chaotic nightclubs and do day game where being chill is an asset instead of forcing yourself to act extroverted to compete in nightclubs. And If you’re the extrovert type go tear up the nightclubs instead of trying to act all James Bond cool.

      Just make sure that what you think you are is what you really ARE, and isn’t just what you’ve let yourself be socially conditioned to believe you are. ie – experiment with your personality. Go BE a dancing monkey approach machine for a while. Go BE James Bond for a while. Figure out who you actually are through experience instead of being afraid to venture out of the label you’re categorized in.

      Hint: If you were an extroverted kid, like your early memories in kindergarten were of talking to everyone and being fun and having lots of friends and now you’re a shut-in computer nerd telling everyone you’re naturally introverted and shy, you’re a victim of social conditioning. 🙂


  36. My apartment building is full of pros. Don’t even want it for free. But I think it was Errol Flynn who said that he didn’t pay for sex, he paid them to go away when he was finished.


    • on June 14, 2012 at 3:55 am The Whammer

      Errol Flynn married a good looking 16yo when he was in his 50’s and when he was going downhill and washed up as an actor and probably drug addicted. I’m sure he had game.


    • Yes, most pros pale in relation to the amateurs you can talk into plying their trade, at least with you.


  37. “I understand mistakes were made. Good Luck [name]”

    Is this a reasonably alpha way to apologize to a girl I genuinely fucked up with(and who broke up with me) or is no response at all better?

    [heartiste: drop the “good luck”. it sounds spiteful. no response is probably the best (for two weeks, so you can let her stew without your presence), but a simple “i feel bad about it” would suffice if you genuinely fucked up and hurt her.]


  38. Maggie Mcneill, the Honest Courtesan is among the best blogs anywhere regarding the subject. She is smart, self aware, and very plain spoken. We should, imho, make her into our first female saint.
    St. Maggie of the warm wet valley… and Towcester just North of London.


    • Glorifying a whore?
      Are you hitting the meths?


    • on June 14, 2012 at 1:25 am Days of Broken Arrows

      I read Maggie’s blog UNTIL she came out in favor of circumcision…because it benefited women, specifically whores who can allegedly get AIDS easier from uncut men. So in Maggie’s world, men need to mutilate their bodies in order to please whores. Is that the world you want?

      I told her where she could go and never went near her blog again.


      • Most women view men as simply a means to an end. Specifically, men’s lives and bodies are there to provide increased ease and comfort to them.

        Why would it suprise you they see cutting up dicks as mainly an issue of how it impacts women?


  39. Gentlemen, Hookers are basically filthy pay-public-toilets that any and every guy gets to use. Please keep this in mind when your out shopping for the ring. ):-)


  40. What is so wrong about being put into the friend zone of a whore, to use the most derogatory term possible for the lady? Most women have a whore’s outlook on sex. Some get a better deal than others, eg. Jackie Kennedy/Onassis , Eva Peron and Theodora.

    Be friends with her if she wants. If you are a beta/omega type of guy, you will get an amazing education being around her and her friends and seeing the kind of social milieu she inhabits. If you come from a standard middle class background, your outlook on life and people will never be the same. You will have an alpha attitude towards women after you’ve known her for a while. “Respectable” women will find you more attractive, just be discrete. Like one guy noted, they can spell the pussy on you. Of course, you don’t want to be her walk over, go to guy, who gives her a shoulder to cry on and money. That is, don’t be that guy in a Bonnie Raith song (Nobody’s Girl).

    And, the world of free and paid pussy is still there anytime you want it. And, you will be getting more free pussy after you’ve had whore for a girlfriend, IMHO.

    It is amazing how badly testosterone screws up rational thought.


    • You can only get an education if you’re open to being taught.
      Even if a Beta absorbs what he see from her and her friends, who says this will yeld a positive change in his attitude or any change ?
      If a guy’s a Beta before the friendship, he’ll be a Beta during the friendship too.



    [heartiste: the lack of reading comprehension of the femcunts is truly breathtaking. some things never change. please point to the part of the post where it says women are villains for friendzoning hapless beta males. you dolts are incapable of forming a semi-sentient thought in your clit-addled peabrains that isn’t a half-baked strawman.

    ps penis!]


    • on June 14, 2012 at 12:06 pm Days of Broken Arrows

      You mean kind of like women in women’s studies classes turn men into “oppressors” because they invented everything in society including the very medium you’re communicating with now.


    • ahahaha

      P.S. PENIS!

      funniest shit i’ve ever read. i must be 12 again.



      If she is actually going to a friend, that might be acceptable. But a woman’s idea of friendship with a man is largely devotion to her without sexual interaction. Put another way, women are friends with a man like I am a friend with my hunting dog, except at least my dog gets food and a warm place to sleep from me.


    • Who is this imposter? GUARDS!


  42. “6. Never watch a film with a girl if you don’t plan on touching her during it. A two hour non-sexual vibe will dampen a tingle faster than a ripped fart. In front of her friends.”

    This. I. need. to. remember!


  43. @Convict Moll

    pimp game, son. no sane man would have a normal relationship with a whore.

    one should run some vulnerability game with some psycho game. tell her she’s special and you don’t want her for sex, you want her to take care of you. tell her you’ll always protect her, but also scare the shit out of her.


  44. I’d like to be friends with some hookers, borrow money from them, and then not pay them back. I suppose I could help them find more employment in lieu of paying back the money I keep borrowing from them as a friend.


  45. I hadn’t thought about point 3 before but it makes sense. I guess it’s like a company that issues dividend-paying stocks to the public. The company can’t suddenly decide to terminate the dividend payment because the shareholders are used to it now.

    The only case for prostitution is woman is well-and-truly out-of-the-league of nearly all men and you know you’ll never touch that heavenly ass without paying for it (afterall, none of us can afford a Lamborgini, but at the right dealership we might be all to take one for a test drive.) Women this beautiful wouldn’t reduce themselves to fucking the general public though. If they need cash they’ll shack up with some oil tycoon in a villa in Naples or something.


    • Only case? Plz. I’m 49, short, and not thin, but one of my regular hos is 20, cute, and only charges me $100, $108 if you include the cost of the Doritos Tacos we pick up at the Bell drive-thru on the way back to her motel.

      You know how much a 40-something wife would be costing me per screw? Do the math.


  46. on June 14, 2012 at 11:55 am DirkJohanson

    This is debatable; hookers I know seem to prefer a guy who already knows to one who doesnt know and might find out and go nuts. The biggest issue for hookers dating payahs (johns) actually seems to be that we know how easy it is to get other pussy


    • If she drops the divorce proceedings and goes back with him, he really qualifies then.


    • About 20 years ago I knew (and fucked) a chick that was the side girl for a guy getting married. He hired her as the wedding photog, and fucked her in the bathroom during the wedding. They didn’t get caught, tho.


  47. this post doesn’t make any sense, written by a PUA phony. theres nothing wrong with paying whores. why wouldn’t you want to even out a playing field already unfairly tipped in the woman’s favor anyway?

    [heartiste: you write like a loser.]


    • It’s only an uneven playing field from when a female first becomes attractive enough to give a man a chubby, up to when she’s 22 which is when she starts to lose her looks rapidly and alphas, at least, start to have the upper hand.

      In the US, betas probably have to wait until age 30 to have the upper hand. See Rollo’s great essay that says that age 30 is when American men and women trade place in the sweepstakes of who has the upper hand or not.

      Gammas probably have to wait until women are 50 to have the upper hand.


    • lol. ouch


  48. which undoubtedly consists of plenty of non-whore hot chicks



  49. Observant post but let me share my thoughts:

    On #4: You are ALWAYS “paying” for it. There is always a transaction taking place between men and women. Trading Status/Resources/Time/Commitment for Sex and Affection. Some men choose to rent rather than buy.

    I think you have #7 backwards. There is an endless supply of beta LJBF’d orbiters around women and only a few actual lovers.

    I think that terms like “seduction” or “seduction community” are inaccurate, it sounds too coercive and forced. Attraction is a better term. Attraction is not a choice but a natural consequence of proper behaviors and displays that signal high mating value to the opposite sex.


  50. on June 14, 2012 at 5:19 pm Wrecked 'Em

    Every guy should have a stripper as a platonic friend for a while in his life. The education value of this alone is worth the time and effort… it’s like getting a PhD in Women Player Skillz.


    • I could not agree more with this comment. This is what beta chumps don’t realize. Strippers can open the eyes of a guy a lot to see the true nature of women. Just make sure you don’t give the slut any money lol


  51. An important issue left out of the conversation is the effect of oxytocin, a naturally occurring hormone that induces a bonding feeling in women.

    If you can get a virgin to do something for cash that she was otherwise not all that interested in doing, like starting her first sexual relationship ever, oxytocin will cause her to bond to you and suddenly she’s hooked. This real world effect can put the lie to the theories that women automatically won’t respect a man who “paid”.

    It’s all a lot more complicated than that and depends a lot on whether a woman has grown resistant to oxytocin or not. Especially because a smart man makes it so she’s not admitting to herself that she’s getting directly paid.

    Meanwhile over in Egypt it looks like a battle between Alphas supporting the old regime and Betas supporting a religious “one woman for every man” regime.

    Betas do better with true democracy because they outnumber alphas 80 to 20.

    Alphas try to rely on supreme courts being comprised of other alphas.


    • on June 15, 2012 at 9:43 am DirkJohanson

      The night I hired my hooker ex-girlfriend was the first time she did E, which gets the oxytocin flowing. She came back free the next day.


  52. In Brazil, a millionaire guy left his wife for a escort girl. He married the bitch and had a baby. He got tired of her and started seeing another whore he met at the same website ( He was paying her US $ 15k a month for exclusivity.
    Bitch one, now wife, found out, shot him and cut his body to pieces. All over the news now.
    His family sold the company for US$ 1 BI for General Mills.


  53. Don’t knock whores until you’ve been to the bottom of them, so to speak. I assume you mean US whores, who generally are the worst ones on earth. I agree about those. But in Europe prostitution is legal in a lot of places, and really gorgeous sexy girls can be had for down to 50-100 dollars a shot in Germany if you know where to look for example. In Asia or Africa you can have even hotter girls for less.

    “Making it a habit to pay for sex will corrupt a man’s ability to relate to women, and his willingness to learn how to seduce them.”

    Having hot sex for an hour or two a day will imbue you with a sexual aura that women react strongly to, like aggression and testosterone. Likewise, no sex for months means you become repulse to them, and to yourself. Your fur loses it’s luster. Women don’t care where your animal magnetism comes from, if you’ve been to a war cutting up pregnant women and raping their daughters in front of them they’ll still be all over you wanting to rub off some strangely familiar raw energy. If you can always get laid to a standard you like then maybe you can say this, but that’s not the situation for most guys, most guys have problems getting laid for months or years sooner or later.

    “renders the john almost useless as a potential mate without the crutch of cash in advance.”

    The problem is US feminists have made it too expensive for quality paid sex except for really rich people. It wasn’t always like that. And fortunately it’s not like that in large parts of the world. Cute girls who want the latest stuff need to work for it, they don’t get it for free from the government if their parents can’t afford it.

    I’m with a really full figured 20 year old now. Very slim waist and big boobs, beautiful and intelligent. She has a younger sister who I also ravaged a few days ago. She has even more outrageous tits, but her personality is a bit more quiet and blunt. I plan to invite her later for twin menage a troises. I do pay the girls a little bit of money, but so what? It’s not more than I’d spend on knowing other girls anyway, and normal girls won’t let me screw their sisters and friends when they come over. And in the end that’s what I care about, hitting the tightest, hottest, juiciest girls a lot, regardless of the circumstance. Maybe if you’re a top musician or artist überhot girls line up to do you two at a time with little hassle, but if you’re not, you need to pay almost anywhere unless your game/SMV is off the charts.


    • Maybe the elites crashed the world economies because they, as really old men, saw the price of sex was getting too high. And I don’t blame them at all. Prosperity is a double edged sword. It hurts young men who don’t know how to take advantage of it, haven’t had the time to learn game well enough and mostly can’t do financially better than women their own age and it hurts older men whom young women don’t need when they can themselves earn close to a hundred bucks with one day’s work at McDonalds.

      Chaos and hardship can work better for both alpha and beta males, young and old. I predict that Greece will become what Russia was in the nineties with hot women available everywhere.

      The fundamental sexual problem with leftism is that it transfers wealth from males to females without the most important thing in exchange.

      And, regarding how manosphere bloggers treat this topic, anti-payer types never seem to think of how, when they write about “the thrill of the hunt” etc, they are really only talking about doing serial monogamy and making the decision not to get a group of hot friends all at the same time.


  54. I have never been with a prostitute in the US. In fact I have not been with any other women than my wife of over 25 years. However, I visited Thailand for 6 months, and I lived in the Philippines for two years previously. Obviously it was not much challenge to have sex with bar girls. So, I made it my hobby to try to seduce them for free sex or semi-girlfriend status. It is my opinion that Asian whores are not as jaded and cynical as what I have heard about American ones.

    I had a girlfriend one time who was married to a businessman in Manilla. He was constantly cheating on her, so she got even by whoring herself out. That’s how I met her. She gave me a blow-job for a Susan B. Anthony dollar. She didn’t really need the money. It was the symbolism of being a whore behind her husband’s back. We saw each other for several months.

    I met a Korean girl one time when I was there on a short visit. She insisted that she was not a prostitute. She said having sex with strangers was her avocation, not her vocation. She had a Korean-English dictionary. However, she did expect me to bring gifts, like freeze-dried instant coffee.


  55. mfw I was browsing /b/ when that thread was posted, possibly also replied to it