A Quick And Dirty All-Purpose Opener

“Does your boyfriend know you’re flirting with me? Let’s try to tone it down, k?”

LEAVE. Come back to her later.

“There you go again.”

***

Why this opener is so versatile:

  1. It is a cheap way to immediately suss out if she has a boyfriend without wasting precious minutes gaming her.
  2. It functions like a neg by disqualifying yourself, and it compels her to defend herself from your charge of blatantly flirting with you. Putting a girl on the defensive is critical to establishing your dominance over her, which naturally she will love.
  3. Leaving soon after delivering the opener is important. It adds gravitas to what you have said, and will make her wonder if she really was flirting with you. Leaving moves you from “fun guy” category to jerk category, which is a pussy promotion equivalent to moving up from a beta to a brooding rebel. Absence makes the sine wave of the gina tingle oscillate with higher frequency.
  4. This opener entraps her. There is no good answer she can give that you can’t spin to your favor. If she says “I wasn’t flirting with you”, you say “I figured you say that”. If she says “I don’t have a BF”, you say “Well, that explains your aggressive flirting”. If she says “My boyfriend wouldn’t care if I was flirting with you”, you say “I hear wedding bells”. If she says “He doesn’t know I’m flirting with you”, you say (to yourself) “It’s on”.
  5. ABL. Always Be Leaving. That is the trick to making the followup line work. (Obviously, this rules out using the opener on girls walking down the sidewalk.) Ten minutes later, the “There you go again” line should prompt a giggle and a puzzled expression where she asks how exactly she’s flirting with you. That’ll be your cue to make up some shit.




Comments


  1. Preposition Police: change bullet three to say “… oscillate at higher frequency.”

    “with” makes the sentence say not exactly what you mean.

    Like


  2. Ok, so how about this response…

    “He’s heading over here now, so I think he knows.”

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  3. on August 4, 2009 at 1:31 pm enuchenuch (like 3 stooges)

    ABL – a tenet of game that i learned from my first game-master…..tao of steve.

    sick!

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  4. @kalli0pe
    “He’s heading over here now, so I think he knows.”

    Response: Good luck

    Like


  5. ”””””“Does your boyfriend know you’re flirting with me? Let’s try to tone it down, k?”

    LEAVE. Come back to her later.

    “There you go again.””””””””””

    I am thinking this would work.

    Like


  6. @Gunslingergregi

    Pulling out in both cases would have to be very slow and deliberate, like when you are banging a 9. Can’t just scurry off because some schmuck comes along.

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  7. Apropos of nothing:

    Turning Pickup Artists Into Gentlemen by Dr. Paul Dobranksy

    “Women don’t want “wussies” and “wimps” – the product of our gender-sensitive, fatherless, politically correct, post-feminist culture that ignores the deep identification of males with their animal, “Reptilia-brained” nature.”

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-urban-scientist/200908/turning-pickup-artists-gentlemen

    Like


  8. Plus when you leave ya know she is gonna be thinking about you probably in a hot way.

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  9. i would probably say something like
    “why are you saying/thinking i have a bf?”

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  10. Most woman are needy like that nadia. 🙂

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  11. They are afraid to just have a good time with a guy for one night and see where it goes from there.

    Like


  12. on August 4, 2009 at 1:44 pm Seeking Alpha

    Would you want to get some eye contact first or are you walking right up to her and saying this?

    Also, how would who she’s with effect it. I’d imagine it wouldn’t work as well if she’s in a group of girls.

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  13. I’m a big fan of quick and easy openers like this. This is the first time I can recall hearing ABL but it’s what I do for the most part.

    Roissy, how often do you find girls you’ve opened swooped by another dude before you can come back to them? It seems in Richmond the chicas pair up with lightning fucking speed.

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  14. this is also a good opener because it let’s her know what you’re interested in. you’re *not* interested in small talk, and you’re *not* interested in LJBF. you paint yourself as a sexual threat which helps you get over one of the hurdles that many guys face when opening women with benign lines like “so, what do you do?” or “where are you from?”

    Like


  15. on August 4, 2009 at 2:18 pm Black Military Man

    You say: “Does your boyfriend know you’re flirting with me? ”

    She says: “Yeah, he told me to. You do threesomes?”

    What next?

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  16. If she ignores you, respond: “Ahh, good work. You’re getting better. But we’ll see if you can keep it up.” Then decide whether or not to come back later in the same manner as discussed.

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  17. JAM,
    Thanks for posting The Urban Scientist article from Psychology Today. I saw myself in much of what he wrote.

    Much appreciated. Perhaps Roissy himself may address it.

    O

    Like


  18. agreed – psych article was a decent read, if unexceptional to this crew.

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  19. Ten minutes later…

    In your experience roissy, how many women have left before you ever re-opened them with the “There you go again” line?

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  20. getting tired of this bullshit. The same old crap while the country is going down the tubes! A dumb jug-eared coon in the White House and a pack of slithering,organ-harvesting reptillian kikes running the country.And we have to hear about some dumb comment u make to some dipshit ninny with a nice set of tits! I’m done here…

    Like


  21. on August 4, 2009 at 3:08 pm Seeking Alpha

    I’m done here…

    Say it ain’t so!

    Like


  22. Maurice,
    If I may, I would like to suggest that the PT article speaks to some powerful issues that our humble group would do well to heed. There are real risks and pitfalls in this thing, and while we’re old enough to at least know this, if not steer clear of it, many of our younger brothers may not be fully aware of this.

    This is why I respectfully criticize some of the posts here, such as the “Apocalypse Opener” and so on, because over the longterm they don’t promote good mental health-we’ve all heard how guys become disillusioned to outright hateful of Women because of the “easy” way they can pick them up, but I also submit that’s because human beings weren’t wired to simply “hook up”. Over time, it has to have a deliterious effect on us, and yes I mean Men.

    Its an article I think we all should carefully read and think about.

    O

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  23. john is a moby?

    Like


  24. -doug- your scale is better than PA’s

    1 – repulsive
    2 – ugly
    3 – unattractive
    4 – not very attractive; tolerable
    5 – plain; ok
    6 – cute
    7 – pretty
    8 – very pretty; beautiful
    9 – gorgeous
    10 – international class gorgeous

    If a ten is the hot actress or model- the 9 is the almost but not quite hot enough actress or model.

    99.9% (Most men) will NEVER attain a 9 or a 10- they are very rare.
    8’s will have tons of men fawning all over them.

    In NYC it seems like a good portion of the 8’s that i encounter have huge rocks on their fingers by their mid 20’s.

    None of the women in the NEG picture rates an 8.
    i consider a 5.5 very fuckable. If a 5 is the average looking plain jane that is kind of cute a 5.5 is better than average.

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  25. ” Absence makes the sine wave of the gina tingle oscillate with higher frequency”

    That is very good stuff.

    “suss out”–I wish that phrase would re-enter the lingo again. Its a lost jewel.

    This was a great walk-through excercise showing everyone the mental processes that the woman will go through in response to what the man said.

    Kalliope,

    Even if you said that, this opener is still ten times better than a guy nervously walking up to you after waiting 2 full minutes of playing eye-hockey with you, and saying something like, “may I buy you a drink?”, or “do you come here often?”, or “Gee this is a pretty neat place, ya think?”, or “Would you like to dance with me?” that men have been taught a la movies and TV to peruse at clubs.
    Those make him look needy, weak, and optionless. The opener Roissy detailed make him appear non-needy, in-demand, confident, self-assured, and playful. In my experience (as an older guy whose eyes have seen much), the men who are in the latter category usually have the cute wives and the nervous-nice guys usually are married to overweight women or pretty homely ladies, even though their own looks could have attained something better.

    Roissy’s opener also would allot for a man to get shot-down, but still keep his dignity in tact. You probably haven’t ever thought about it, but for young inexperienced men, having a girl smirk at him and screw up her face as if she just bit into a lemon, while shaking her head quickly back and forth as if she just smelled something vile and half-turning her body away from him……………………all after he dug up the confidence and put social fear like a anvil on his back and walked across a crowded room to approach her, is embarrassing and confidence-draining, which is a bit painful. Opening with something like this would ease that a great deal. A cool response from the woman might entail a bit of a smart-remark from her, but it wouldn’t look like the social-proofing-roadkill I just described for everyone within a 10-foot radius that seen the missile hit the airplane.

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  26. on August 4, 2009 at 3:28 pm D. Ray Morton

    @ BK: Agree with the scale and the ensuing commentary.

    Like


  27. @ O

    I’ve always been a fan of Dr. Paul’s work ever since my community days. Roissy’s ‘hedonism-til-I-die’ philosophy always struck me as, at best, something that I would do only temporarily. And is was one HELL of a fun ride 😉

    But I want to do too much in the world. To build, to leave a legacy. Rake-until-death is something that I know won’t make most men happy. That doesn’t mean you don’t stop using Game and become a fat, slob of a Jabba the Hutt… but it doesn’t mean that you go to the opposite extreme either.

    > Maurice,
    If I may, I would like to suggest that the PT article speaks to some powerful issues that our humble group would do well to heed. There are real risks and pitfalls in this thing, and while we’re old enough to at least know this, if not steer clear of it, many of our younger brothers may not be fully aware of this.

    I completely agree. Ciaran (I think) had a post on this a while back. I’ve seen extreme burnout in guys who pursue the PUA lifestyle too long and too aggressively. They find PUA, but then give up too much to hold on to the chimera of external validation. Then, when the reality hits that there is more to life, they stand in shock at what (many of them) have thrown away. Careers. Family. Gone.

    Men do need to learn this stuff. But they can’t wallow in the froth and chaos for too long, or it can very well destroy them.

    Check out AJ Travis for details.

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  28. me- i never EVER utter the word boyfriend around a girl that i am flirting with.

    I might try this- but it will take me a while to start to use the B word.
    If they have a man that comes out when I ask for the number or usually a little earlier.

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  29. @D. Ray Morton
    that’s why i believe that the women in the neg pic only rate from a 5 to a 6 and change.

    i consider anything above a 5 a good score- as the women is better looking than the average- and if you are better than average, you are doing ok.

    i still can’t believe some people were giving those women 8’s!

    They were all fuckable- but i would not hit on the girl on the far right- the girl to her left with the bag- she is a coin toss. fuckable for sure, but that one pic was at a odd angle- from that one pic i don’t know i would hit on her either.

    The two on the left- those two i would certainly hit on- and subsequently probably fail.

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  30. Dr. Paul is the shit! That man is the keeper of an awesome amount of knowledge. He changed my life.

    Like


  31. @anonymous- i agree with obs on that point – game, in the broad sense of knowing how to push a woman’s attraction buttons, is neither right nor wrong, good nor evil. it just *is*. whether it’s helpful or harmful to men, women and/or relationships depends on the people that use it. but it is a simple, powerful and correct antidote to generations of feminized, anti-male programming that millions of men, a lot of us on the board included, have suffered through. make sense?

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  32. “If they have a man that comes out when I ask for the number or usually a little earlier.”

    unless you get the number within 5 minutes, you’re wasting precious time before finding out.

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  33. This opener is great.

    Like catnip to cats, it hits all the right buttons.

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  34. Lame. If a guy said this to me I wouldn’t even utter a word to him at first. I’d just stare at him and cock my head. Finally I’d ask “Are you feeling okay? Your face is really red – you might want to go to the bathroom and check it out.” Then walk away. No time for STD infested roaches.

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  35. O,

    We should get in email contact w one another . I have some questions to ask about game and life in general and feel like you could really help .

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  36. jam: to be fair ciaran was crazy. he admitted that before he ever got into the community. he was in an asylum. he literally lost his marbles one day. then he got into the community and discovered the shock and awe opener. only to leave the community and go seek out “consciousness.”

    yet another eckhart tolle fan.

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  37. JAM,
    I hear you, Man. Much has been said about Women losing their ability to bond w/a Man if she’s had too many lovers too soon. But I argue they’re not the only one, Men can loose their ablity to bond as well if they go too long in this thing. We’ve all heard of bachelors going to the point of no return so to speak, being single too long.

    This is why I say, w/o a strong moral foundation-and by that I don’t mean being the next Pope, here. I mean, w/o a basic sense of right and wrong, w/o a basic moral compass, Game can destroy your life, consume you and everything around you. Style talks about this in The Game and its something we all need to be mindful of, I know I do.

    Recently, I had a very deep discussion w/Brown Sugah. We were talking about the role of friends in one’s life.

    While she maintained that a Woman’s friends can give one a sense of perspective, I took another POV. I said that while no doubt friends, to a Man or Woman, are quite important, there comes a time in a Man’s life when, for the sake of his growth as a Man, he needs to pare back his friends, to make room for a special friend.

    I told her that I had several good, cose friends, of more than a decade, and one more than two. In fact, when he got married, he didn’t have to tell me anything-I automatically fell back. We see each other every so often, maybe twice a year or so. We know where we live, how to get hold of each other. But we both understand that he’s in a different phase of his life, and that I would be selfish and disrespectful of both him and his wife, a lovely lady indeed, if I acted as if we were still teenagers.

    I told Brown Sugah that the most important friend a Man can have in this world, is the Woman who shares his bed, who washes his drawers, who prepares his food and acts as his whore, and any Man who’s had such a Woman in his life knows exactly what I’m talking about. Guy friends can do a lot for each other, but a Good Woman is a friend in a way even the best of Men can never be.

    As often happens when I drop some science on Brown Sugah, she fell silent.

    O

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  38. Fascinating. In the West Indies the line is “Where is your girlfriend?”, not “Do you have a girlfriend?” It is said that the average man in Barbados has 3 girlfriends, so the second question isn’t asked because it’s assumed everyone has a girlfriend or 3.

    The operating definition of girlfriend in the W.I. of course being a woman with whom you’ve had sex and might plausibly have sex with again in the future. She could be located on another continent, you might not have seen her or talked to her in a year, she’s still your girlfriend. Anyway, if a girl is interested, this is what she’ll ask, the unspoken inference being if she isn’t around…

    Gotta love Ryan’ O’Neal’s line on his, err, daughter, it just reeks of the 70s:

    “I said to her, ‘You have a drink on you? You have a car?’ She said, ‘Daddy, it’s me–Tatum!’ I was just trying to be funny with a strange Swedish woman, and it’s my daughter. It’s so sick.”

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  39. O – I agree with you 100%

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  40. This is my rule for ABL. If I’m nervous and afraid I DO NOT ABL, tough it out, face your fears, she’ll notice.

    If it’s going well then ABL. It’s like the comedian who always leaves his audience wanting more.

    The building will shake with her gina oscillation.

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  41. @jam

    some men love A B C- or D
    A could be travel
    B could be money
    C could be cars
    D could be golf
    E or anything else- fill in the blank.

    i love women.
    i don’t know if i love anything more than i love women.
    That’s why i don’t agree with the philosophy that all men should find hobbies other than Pickup.

    While i do enjoy many other hobbies and activities, I find learning how to be good with women the most enjoyable, and the most fulfilling.

    i don’t know why that is- and i don’t know if it is unhealthy- would it really be better if i loved cars, or videogames more than women?

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  42. @ Game in BK

    > That’s why i don’t agree with the philosophy that all men should find hobbies other than Pickup.

    I’m not arguing that. Many will be happy to be rakes, and for them I offer my salutations. But this does not obtain for most. There is a very big danger for (most) men in spending too long in the PUA lifestyle. It can destroy them. In all the ways that count.

    Again, I am not saying that PUA is not fun and interesting — it is. But like too much of a good thing (candy, video games, whatever) making it the focus of one’s life for too long leaves most men hollow and empty inside.

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  43. Mm… Interesting. I bet its all in the vibe the guy saying that line gives off, and picking his target wisely. If a guy that doesn’t seem like a weirdo or a pompous jerk said that to me, I’d probably kind of smile and be like “what do you mean?” I’d want to hear him explain what he’s talking about. Or I’d do a throwaway laugh and ignore. By the way, sometimes girls want their boyfriend to see another guy come up to us – I loooove watching how the guy I am with handles the situation, it’s a nice test to see if he’s the fighting type, or the disarm with his words type, or the type who gets wimpy and is looks insecure and does nothing (aka use for fun then throw him type, what a coward)

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  44. My new go to is rubbing around my mouth like I have something there, and asking if I have something on my mouth. Then she’ll say no. I’ll say oh I thought you were staring at me.

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  45. that’s pretty terrible – rubbing your mouth seems like nervous habit.

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  46. Jam-
    Dr. Paul has got some good nuggets of wisdom there, but some of his ‘facts’ are way off.

    He says that women don’t want jerks, and offers Mr. Big from Sex & the City as proof?

    That guy was THE Alpha jerk. And the lead chick (Sarah Jess Parker) cheated on her ‘nice guy’ live-in boyfriend with him.

    Any conclusions based on that premise are dead wrong.

    Women are attracted to jerks like guys are attracted to sluts.

    Evolved men and women control their base desires in order to make wise decisions about who to be in a relationship with.

    Like


  47. About the PUA lifestyle, I don’t judge the guys who never want to settle down and all that. I do find it strange and bewildering because I just don’t see how they could be happy without a partner in life they are fully bonded to, who has their back and all that. Let alone the idea of the mother of their children, and wanting to raise their kids in a stable environment. I always found it interesting how many wealthy men on the rise, like athletes, politicians, and wall street guys get married and fairly young too (before 30). I guess if a guy is in a competitve field he wants that stability and support a wife gives, along with the public respectability.

    Like


  48. Obsidian–

    This is why I respectfully criticize some of the posts here, such as the “Apocalypse Opener” and so on, because over the longterm they don’t promote good mental health-we’ve all heard how guys become disillusioned to outright hateful of Women because of the “easy” way they can pick them up, but I also submit that’s because human beings weren’t wired to simply “hook up”. Over time, it has to have a deliterious effect on us, and yes I mean Men.

    The fundamental reason it’s so easy to pick women up if you have game is that they’ve become so slutty compared to most women in the past, certainly most upper half in social status women.

    Game works to get girls real quickly because feminism has created lots of sluts and semi sluts.

    Even relative good girls may go for real good gamer who also has other things going for him, by kidding herself into believing a lasting relationship is possible. But she still gives it up quickly. Whereas while that did happen 50 or 100 and 300 years ago, it didn’t anywhere near as often as today. Instead they and/or their parents were testing for commitment and character and ability to provide – or had pretested for some of these things before allowing the meeting.

    Like


  49. -lovelysexybeauty-

    i am a romantic at heart.
    Most women have ripped that heart out.

    After reading roissy and some famous pua’s i had to FORCE myself to change the view i held on women.

    This was a hard pill to swallow for a romantic- but true love doesn’t exist.

    Like


  50. Have to agree with BK in regards to mentioning the potential boyfriend. It comes off as fishing for information, almost no matter how perfect the delivery is.

    It’s a good opener, I admit, but if the girl is used to being hit on all the time, she’s just going to dismiss it as another guy, possibly brighter than the rest, trying another route to find out her status.

    Like


  51. So some men are disillusioned at how easy to pick up women? I understand that most men don’t like women (in a love/marriage way) if she’s been with any/many men. What I don’t get is why that would bother a man in a greater sense. There are women out there either cunning or brainwashed enough to screen the way doug1 described, and not put out because they have the bigger picture in mind. But why would a man care, what specifically about female promiscuity bothers men? Is it a evo. biological artifact type of gut reaction, which may have developed to screen cuckoldery?

    Like


  52. I think the disillusionment comes at how easy it is to pick up married woman.

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  53. on August 4, 2009 at 4:53 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ lsb

    he wants that stability and support a wife gives, along with the public respectability.

    Thats certainly true for me on both counts. I think most guys in my industry seem to get married young. A lot of the guys at work are married before 30.

    Like


  54. @ AJ

    > He says that women don’t want jerks, and offers Mr. Big from Sex & the City as proof?
    >
    >That guy was THE Alpha jerk. And the lead chick (Sarah Jess Parker) cheated on her ‘nice guy’ live-in boyfriend with him.
    >
    >Any conclusions based on that premise are dead wrong.

    He’s definitely off-base with characterization of Big as a ‘gentleman’ – he’s only superficially a gentleman. All hat and no cattle. That being said, the rest of the analysis is essentially true.

    > Evolved men and women control their base desires in order to make wise decisions about who to be in a relationship with.

    I completely agree… and so says the article (“high character”, “healthy pride”, etc, etc.

    And as you say, ‘evolved men and women’. That is not ‘all men’ or ‘all women’. The thing we need to do is to have people value these traits of high character. The number of such people has shrunk dramatically with the rise of feminism and misandry in Western Civilization and increasingly elsewhere, unfortunately. It will probably get worse before it gets better.

    I don’t hate rakes, as long as people recognize them for what they are… and there are non-negligible social consequences for women who associate with them. Of course, neither of these stipulations are currently true in popular culture and society.

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  55. Game in BK – aw, that’s kind of sad, but I guess its good to be balanced between believing in a higher ideal like love, and being in reality about the “selfish gene” nature of human behavior. A lot of girls have had their hearts ripped out too, it goes both ways. Some girls react to that in different ways. Some become golddiggers, some become promiscuous in order to forget the lovelonging and get temporary hits of a love-like feeling they had, etc. Ok another thing I don’t understand: how do so many women break guys hearts? In my experience its the guys who play around, or just decided they weren’t into a girl, or weren’t ready to marry her, etc. Aren’t there more books for why men weren’t into a girl, than there are for men on the same idea? I bet the Game for men market is less than the one for women. As a woman I get so bonded to a guy, I’ve stuck around with guys who were pretty bad to me in fact just because of that bond. So I don’t get it, unless a lot more girls out there are sociopathic from an early age

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  56. the surefire firepower way to pua poetry of fresh would be to ask:

    “who lies more – women with ballgags…or nipple clamps?”

    pause.

    for lovelysexybooty it’s just matter of properly speaking The King’s English in a clipped New Del accent whilst elegantly wearing my stethoscope to the Club 🙂

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  57. ”””””””’elegantly wearing my stethoscope to the Club ””””””

    Well I guess you deserve her then.

    Still laughing.

    Like


  58. Gunslingergregi – that’s messed up, married women… I’ve heard guys talk about being hit on by married women. I never understood why women would do that, other than 1. They married a man not for love but for money/status/something else, or 2. They are unhappy about something in the marriage (maybe they got chubby or nag and the hubby is clearly not loving them as muc) and instead of trying to fix the marriage issues they act out.

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  59. Firepower, I can tell you know me entirely too well.

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  60. even in
    the Biblical sense
    I know thee too well

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  61. Gunslingergregi chortled:

    ”””””””’elegantly wearing my stethoscope to the Club ””””””

    Well I guess you deserve her then.

    Still laughing.

    bro, the real elegant beauty of it is: she’ll never get the joke. It’d be like, asking her to cook something – she’d just look over at you with big Japanese Anime eyes and mention something about “going out for French food”

    Like


  62. Obsidian–

    Much has been said about Women losing their ability to bond w/a Man if she’s had too many lovers too soon. But I argue they’re not the only one, Men can loose their ablity to bond as well if they go too long in this thing. We’ve all heard of bachelors going to the point of no return so to speak, being single too long.

    I think the tendency is FAR, FAR greater for women than men, as a general rule.

    That’s because as is common knowledge women are far more likely to necessarily become emotionally bonded with men they have good sex with (or sex that seems like good sex to them, in their experience). This isn’t either or. It’s overlapping bell curves. Some men really bond from just good sex, or just sex with a pretty girl, particularly if they haven’t had much sex before. Some girls don’t particularly bond from sex and feel a lot of push pressure (not just pull desire from good experiences) to have a lot of it or even with a lot of partners. This girls are called sluts.

    I also think the pull of good and great sex and a certain mindset and set of beliefs and experiences, can turn a large proportion of women into sluts. These will have a hard time bonding.

    Male players as they get older not nearly so much. If they pick a suitably younger hot enough girl (10-15yrs). They may (probably will) want to stray some but that doesn’t mean they’ll want to leave their wife or stop loving her, if she’s suitably lovable.

    http://aliasclio.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/has-the-definition-of-rape-changed/#comment-723

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  63. Firepower – lol pfffff :-p so silly. Seeking Alpha – ya, isn’t that interesting? I’m sure for some they marry starter wives when they’re young, but its an interesting phenomena nonetheless. There’s only so much most us can spend our time excelling – for many here, that’s getting with as many top tier women as possible. For some, they want to excel at work or at sports or whatever. Even for girls, some of us do have to spend that 1 hour each day not at the office but at pilates, or those 2 hours each weekend on our nails, hair and makeup, or picking out the clothes that will make us look hottest. It takes time away from doing other things.

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  64. ””””LovelySexyBeauty,
    Gunslingergregi – that’s messed up, married women… I’ve heard guys talk about being hit on by married women.”””””””””””

    Or maybe they are tempting mens souls to destroy them both. We all make choices I suppose.

    Maybe morals are relics of a byegone era. Maybe it is all good.

    Like


  65. poetry of Flesh – Like just about everything else in the Game, it is all in the delivery.

    Hell, if delivered correctly (by someone who has that confident rakish look), anything you say works. If delivered badly (or without the jaunty air), nothing works.

    Like


  66. And what would you do if the lovely lady looked you up and down with a gleam in her eye and said “He doesn’t care, as long as I share.” ?

    Like


  67. Firepower,
    You might know me bibically,
    But everytime you post like this,
    I end up with
    Stephen Hawking
    Or William Shatner
    Narrating your comments
    In my head.
    It’d be hot
    Without the wheelchair,
    Boldly going,
    Where many men
    Have gone before.

    Like


  68. Oh and that’s not to dismiss the wonders that having a warm, loving life partner to go home to after a stressful day can do to help someone deal with life’s pressures, and work challenges. One of the “secrets” a book from the old days on girl game talks about, is making the home a very welcoming place for a man to come to after work. Including giving him at least 30 minutes of quiet time when he gets home, and having a fresh and delicious dinner ready for him, maybe even have his slippers ready too. What a nice way for him to unwind

    Like


  69. “Guns cuts off legs to roll up on poetry for wheelchair game”

    Like


  70. on August 4, 2009 at 5:28 pm Seeking Alpha

    that’s not to dismiss the wonders that having a warm, loving life partner to go home to after a stressful day can do to help someone deal with life’s pressures

    Or a nicely rolled J and a good history book.

    Like


  71. Good thing they only let us have plastic knives in war. lol

    Like


  72. Seeking Alpha – lolllll sureeee loll. Can’t sum it up in words, but even for me its an awesome feeling to be with someone who is there to cheer you up when you feel down, to have your back when others attack, and push the exact right buttons after they loosen up your buttons lol. Lolllll. Any way sorry for the off topic posts to all

    Like


  73. Obsidian–

    I told her that I had several good, cose friends, of more than a decade, and one more than two. In fact, when he got married, he didn’t have to tell me anything-I automatically fell back. We see each other every so often, maybe twice a year or so. We know where we live, how to get hold of each other. But we both understand that he’s in a different phase of his life, and that I would be selfish and disrespectful of both him and his wife, a lovely lady indeed, if I acted as if we were still teenagers.

    I think men do this far too much in this current culture of ours. Seems this does cross over to blacks quite a lot too. Women don’t tend to do it nearly as much.

    There was a lot of feminist media propaganda against men spending too much time with their buddies after getting married. Sitcoms, movies talking about poker nights and bowling nights and what not, excluding the girls. Sometimes just one on one guys together but mostly it focused on the guy group social thing. It used to be a constant theme I think through the 80s. Not nearly as much the last decade or two. Guess they won.

    It’s bad for men to neglect their buddies post marriage. There are some issues because single guys esp. those on the game and marrieds do different things. So it may be less often with some, but develop others who are also married or cohabiting, otherwise in a LTR. Make a real effort to pairs socialize around your buds at least as much as hers.

    Otherwise married men give women more social resources, and it makes them more emotionally dependent on their woman, which women think they want and constantly strive towards. But then they increasingly lose interest for the man who’s let them win too much on that.

    Like


  74. ””’30 minutes of quiet time””””

    30 minutes of quiet time should be at the door. Code for lovelytime.

    Don’t forget the big smile and excited to see him face with the shining eyes.

    Plus grab anything he has in his hands and make it dissapear somewhere. If food set it up.

    Take his clothes off.

    Shower him.

    Feed him by hand.

    Like


  75. ”’Seems this does cross over to blacks quite a lot too. ””””’

    We where doing so well. Does it really cross over doug that is in fact facinating stuff.

    Like


  76. LSB,
    I’m sorry to inform you, but there is no such thing as “Girl Game”, just like there is no such thing as an “Alpha Female”. Such notions belie, w/all due respect, a fundamental ignorance and/or unawareness of how actual Game works, and the insights and science that undergirds it.

    Moreover, it is a very powerful example of the very unisexual, politically correct groupthink that got us here in the first place. The very mention of such things are grievous misnomers.

    O

    Like


  77. Guns, you’re making this too complicated.

    One of my exes would call on his way back from work: “I want a bourbon and blowjob when I get home.”

    “Yes, sir.”

    Everything else is just girly frills.

    Like


  78. Gunslingergregi – awww ya that would all be really sweet to do. I remember with one guy in a high stress job, he picked me up after a really bad day at work (he actually had to go back after dinner), he told me about how he punched a wall or something. I was like awww and put my soft caashmere scarf with some ice on it, and just sort of was sweet to him. I only talked about pleasant topics, smiled at him a little extra and stuff, maybe complimented a little extra on what a great place he picked. Not sure if this meant anything but he had me go with him to his work after “if I didn’t mind, I feel like hanging around with you more.” He coukdve been mistreating by making me come to his work for 15 mins. but at the time I thought it was because I had a calming influence. At leats I hope I did.

    Like


  79. A.J.Travis–

    Evolved men and women control their base desires in order to make wise decisions about who to be in a relationship with.

    The word “evolved here”, which I realize you’re drawing from common idiom and PC culture, is fundamentally off.

    You need a more cultural reference for it to not be foolish.

    Like


  80. Doug,
    Well, you’re certainly free to disagree, but my reasoning for saying what I did earlier was simple: Men need Women in a way that Women don’t necessarily need Men.

    Why do I say that?

    Because study has shown that Men being cutoff from Women is actually highly dysfunctional for them in ways that’s not as bad the other way around.

    In other words, you’re likely to get more Muhammad Attas and Virginia Tech Chos than the female versions. A bunch of cackling females may be a drag, but a bunch of Attas and Chos can be deadly.

    Men are by nature more solitary than are Women, and thus Men need Women to help in the socialization process. When this dosnt happen a Man’s socializations skills atrophy; he remains in the state he was in highschool instead of being a grown Man.

    Of course, anything taken to extremes is not a good thing, and yup, periodically hanging out w/the buds is a good thing. Nevertheless the point is made: its not good for any society to have large groups of Men largely disconneted and unattached to their society in any meaningful way. For most Men most of the time, that connection lives and breathes through at least one special Woman.

    Otherwise you wind up w/Outlaws, instead of Inlaws.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  81. lol @ all of these AFCs talking about the “pitfalls” of the community.

    The majority of you aren’t even actively sarging. You are nowhere near the level that Style was at in The Game when he had his epiphany about pick up and its role in his life. Talking at length about how the PUA lifestyle is ultimately hollow is just another defense mechanism to keep you from going out in the field and living the lifestyle you’ve always wanted.

    Like


  82. I always found it interesting how many wealthy men on the rise, like athletes, politicians, and wall street guys get married and fairly young too (before 30). I guess if a guy is in a competitve field he wants that stability and support a wife gives, along with the public respectability.

    That’s true. Game skills are valuable for any man. But high volume PUA with no relationship requires a lot of time and energy.

    The ideal thing for an alpha with serious career energy and time commitments would be a settled relationship/marriage but also some freedom to opportunisitically play – in a way that doesn’t involve strong or any real emotional attachment to another woman.

    I’m curious. How would you feel about that if turned out to be key to getting a significantly hotter (and well off, important to you) alpha? If his playing was only under the sorts of rules I’ve outlined recently on this board a couple of times. Rules which fundamentally give you info and veto rights?

    Like


  83. Obsidian – first of all a belated sorry for never replying to some of your questions on another thread. I got so busy and didn’t check this site for a while, don’t even remember what post that was. But I do feel bad, just because its the internet doesn’t mean ignoring is ok! About girl game, for me girl game is getting married to the best guy possible, and keeping him in love with you. It mostly involves maximizing your looks, but there are so many hot and hotter women out there. So girl game also involves making yourself stand out from the other girls at your level via personality, inner peace, being a fun challenge, etc. Girl game is completely different from guy game for the most part, both in its goals along with methods.

    Like


  84. ””””One of my exes would call on his way back from work: “I want a bourbon and blowjob when I get home.””””””””

    I am not saying what I told the woman to do lol

    Anyway shouldn’t have to call to tell her what to do. It is supposed to be automatic and as if magic he he he

    Like


  85. Obsidisian–

    Nevertheless the point is made: its not good for any society to have large groups of Men largely disconneted and unattached to their society in any meaningful way.

    Yeah I agree.

    But I wasn’t remotely talking about that.

    I was talking about men not giving up their buds too much, or finding new ones, after marriage/cohabitation.

    Like


  86. Game in BK, I found your 1-10 chart rather interesting.
    I’ve thought somewhat about it and came up with the following system.

    Keep in mind that this diverges with ethnicity, conditions of life and age, so I’ll tell you that my “case study” are 15 to 30 (or 35?) years old looking girls living in a modern, somewhat sophisticated, society and of South Western European ethnicity, like girls from Spain and Portugal. I’d say Southern European Girls but it is a truth to me that Italian girls are way more beautifull than Spanish and Portuguese girls even though they are not much different. The occasional “other white” girl is conted as well but I don’t think it influences much. I do not count non whites. Here it goes:

    1 – 1% / Horrible. Girls you don’t even consider as sexual beings. Usually deformed or something.

    2 – 4% / Really, really ugly. You still have dificulty in seeing them as sexual beings.

    3 – 10% / Everybody agrees that the girl is ugly. The uglyness is consensual.

    4 – 25% / Already a normal girl although she is unatractive.

    5 – 5% / Really average girls. The kind of girls I’d still be disgusted fucking them although I don’t really know why.

    6 – 25% / Average girl. They have their flaws but most are fuckable. They are the female friends with whom you can hang out with and not feel she’s “low vallue” all the time as well as not feeling a urge to “have her” in a sexual way.

    7 – 15% / In a way, pretty. Nothing special, but this would already be a good universal fuck.

    8 – 10% / Beautifull

    9 – 4% / Incredibly Beautifull and Hot. Gorgouse.

    10 – 1% / Looks like an angel that lost it’s wings. And usually, like an angel, nobody truly knows her sex because no one has access to her sex.

    Like


  87. @Doug:

    I took it to mean “evolved” in the Freudian sense. That is, Freud believes we sublimated our sexual and death drives in order to create civilization.

    Like


  88. Game in BK

    This was a hard pill to swallow for a romantic- but true love doesn’t exist.

    Feminism has worked hard to kill true committed through thick and thin love in women.

    “Stand by your man” is a vastly ridiculed song phrase by feminists.

    Like


  89. Roissy, I also must say that this opener sucks.
    It sucks because noone can apply it successfully except the PUAs. You can only use it in a girl who’s already of a lower vallue when compared to you and as such it’s useless because you could have came up with a number of other openers.

    Also, it is everything but practical.

    This is Roissy at his worst.

    Like


  90. @Doug again:

    Sorry, I don’t think that was very clear. Essentially, we have to divert our sexual, base natures in order to fuel intellectual endeavours. Leisures of a “higher nature” in order to propel society.

    Like


  91. LSB,
    Again, what you’re talking about cannot be compared to Game because of one major reason, which you were careful to stress in your reply: Game can enable an otherwise Average Frustrated Chump to become a Booty Magnet if he so desires. On the other hand, a Woman’s beauty, which remains her number one weapon on the sexual market, is largely fixed, though she’s able to “tweak” it a lot more in our time thanks to cosmetics up to and including surgery.

    But there is no specialized, codified, field tested and scientifically based body of knowledge on the female side that is in any way comparable to Game-in fact, I would go so far as to say that the Mystery Method is far and away more consistently accurate than the whole of “Girl Game” articles to be found in the Seven Sisters magazines (Marie Claire, Redbook, Vogue, Cosmopolitan, etc, et al.). There just isn’t any comparison.

    I was talking recently about several Men who found themselves in quite a pickle. One of them, a White, tall, and handsome professional guy, was engaged to be married to an Egyptian girl. Problem? NO SEX.

    And they’d existed like this for at least months, if not years.

    My advice?

    Begin sending out not so subtle signals that you have options and that you fully intend to make use of them. Get a new wardrobe, change up the haircut, and start Sarging. Hard. She will either get the hint or fall back.

    Either way, he wins.

    O

    Like


  92. How’s this for a opener:

    “Hi, my name is X and I’m getting married in 3 days.”

    Like


  93. Guns,

    You’re absolutely right. But until I reach perfection, I suppose I’ll just continue to drown my boyfriends with alcohol and oral sex.

    Like


  94. hahaahahahahaahaah

    Like


  95. i think the women should be rated on a a scale of 1-10 . but there should be in between numbers for example you can say that two women are 8s . but one will clearly be a better looking girl than the other at least according to preferences.

    but that wouldn’t make her a 9. just because she is better looking than her fellow 8,
    she might a 8.5 if the girl is a 8.0 or 8.1

    Like


  96. Doug,
    Yea, I hear where you’re coming from, and can’t really knock it.

    For me, I’m cool w/my “The Wood” phase in my life. I’ve had many very good guy friends, several of whom I remain in touch with. But the phase of my life now is such that I’m about cultivating a relationship outside of that realm. In my view, it is vital for Men to do this for their own wellbeing. As The Urban Scientist notes in that Psychology Today piece, there are real costs to be paid when large numbers of Men aren’t socialized in ways that only Women can do.

    O

    Like


  97. Whether one calls it game, or strategy, or tactics, it’s all getting at the same idea of making choices that seem to yield better results. Doug1 – interesting question about letting a man get his ‘play’ on. Most religions say no to that so for me that would be an issue. But knowing biology and the reality of human behavior, I don’t want to take too strong of a stand against ‘natural’ human sin. For me, honestly it would hurt me a lot to know that the man I love wants to be physical with another girl. iintellectually I could see him talk about his commitment to me, and show it too – but my heart would be dying inside. And I’d be freaked out about what other people would think, and the gossip whispers. I really related to mrs. Berlusconi’s letter a few years ago when she talked about the insult to her dignity. So my reaction today would be that I would probably rather not know, and that the guy better do a super duper air tight job of keeping anything he does like that secret.

    Like


  98. ””””’lovelysexybeauty
    Gunslingergregi – awww ya that would all be really sweet to do. ””””

    Yea it would.

    Keep practicing poetry and one day you will be ready for the olympics.

    Like


  99. @S:

    Weren’t leisures of a higher nature made possible by a society that was no longer nomadic, but rather, agricultural?

    People took their time planting seeds, letting them grow, then began to settle down on land with a steady supply of food?

    Several people found better interests in the arts, astronomy, philosophy, etc. in ancient Greece, and I would say the Greeks were fairly sexual in nature. Many of them started homosexual relationships with each other because they considered men to be at their level, whereas women were considered less artistically inclined/intellectually capacitated to pursue such endeavors (not to mention much, much younger) and were only necessary for reproduction and keeping the home in order, essentially.

    Like


  100. lovelysexybeauty–

    As a woman I get so bonded to a guy, I’ve stuck around with guys who were pretty bad to me in fact just because of that bond. So I don’t get it, unless a lot more girls out there are sociopathic from an early age

    You were raised to be a one man woman for life and chaste until marriage. A lot of American feminist girls these days are not. Which is a lot of why men are now more commitment phobic than ever. That and the divorce settlement laws.

    They’re raised to think that a good marriage is the eventual ideal but so to is not having to count on a man but instead have an independent career you can count on (as well as that child support=alimony and half his money no matter what you did or didn’t do in the marriage.) They’re taught by the media and peers to have just as much sexual freedom as the guys, and some actually do or somewhat do. by guy’s they mean alpha guys. It’s much easier for girls to if they have a mind to it. All they have to do is mingle and not say no.

    A lot of girls found in the big cities these days go through college and screw 20 or 30 guys there, and then report that to any male/female sex partners surveyor as the 3 they had bf/gf relationships with.

    Like


  101. That shit made me want to check your site but can’t (:
    Your gonna have to switch over to wordpress or something.

    Like


  102. LSB,
    Again, w/all due respect: no. Game isn’t happenstance or by accident of birth; it is a field tested, time honored system of Seduction, that works. Because it is not based on one person but rather on a system which itself is based on scientific evidence. There simply is not female equivalent.

    For example, it would be very interesting to see the results of a joint study where say, “The Rules” and the “Mystery Method” were both field tested. While it is certainly possible for a guy like Style to grab 8s, 9s and 10s consistently, it is hard to see the female version of Style doing the same thing via The Rules. This is because the inherent realities of male and female attraction is so different.

    There is simply no scientific, field tested way you could explain Girl Game to me or anyone else here, not in the way that any of us Men would recognize it, based on such systems as the MM. Nor can you name the female equivalent of Mystery, or of any other leading voice in the PUA community. The reason is simple, because Women really don’t have to develop Game.

    Hence, my original statement: there is no such thing as Girl Game. It is a misnomer, which sprang out of a need to have a “his” and “hers” version of any and everything.

    And since you’re Indian, think about this-there is no female version of the Kama Sutra either, and that’s what, at least 2K years old?

    Hmm.

    O

    Like


  103. Obsidian – but if a woman is 20 lbs overweight due to growing up eating lots of carbs in her family but has a pretty face, isn’t it game if she loses the weight? If a girl is hot and sleeps around a lot and is known for doing so, isn’t it bad game if she doesn’t get that most men won’t to marry her? If a girl is an 8 and the guy she is seeing is clearly dating around, wouldn’t she tend to beat out the other 8 level competition if she’s sweet, feminine and fun to be around (rare traits in amnerican women today)? I’m sorry but I’m not totally understanding why you think there is no girl game. Also, I think most popular magazines are not very good at girl game. I was thinking more about books like he’s just not into you, why men marry b-tches, getting to I do, the rules (1, 2, online dating and marriage books), what guys want, fascinating womanhood, mars and venus (all like 10 of those ones), etc. There are message board for the rules and all other girl game philosophies too, even weekly conference calls. It must just be invisible if you don’t look. Just got to a bookst

    Like


  104. Obsidian – what’s your definition of game? There are books or oral histories from the beginning of time on how women can beguile men, even the bible, koran and other religious texts have recommendations for how women (and men) should choose their spouses and conduct themselves with each other. Not sure where we are disagreeing. And sadly its time for me to get my game on and work on getting my body hottt at the gym. Ttyl 😉

    Like


  105. Game in BK,

    “that’s why i believe that the women in the neg pic only rate from a 5 to a 6 and change.”

    The women in reality are very likely to be and rate differently from their images on pictures only.
    But, according to my rating, I’d say that the blonde at least was an 8, and the one in the red dress was at least a seven, close to an eight. The Asian was a five or a four (pretty good to an Asian, I know, I’m a racist. She’d be a five but she looks somewhat fat) and the one on the left was a high six or a low seven. That’s what I get from the photo.

    For instance this “friend” of mine (a mere aquaitance in truth)
    http://mulheresfamosas.blog.xoose.pt/andreia-vilas-boas-na-revista-j/
    is a nine in real life although here she looks lie an eight.

    The funny thing is that when I first met her I was thinking about my ten, who had invited me to another club and I couldn’t go because I was bored there at the aniversary of a real (male) friend of mine.
    The funny thing is that when I first met her, I looked at her, I talked to her, but I was thinking so much in “my” distant ten that she looked like a semi fat four to me. This is very Beta, a oneitis and is scarring.
    Some months after, I saw her again, I saw how she was a nine and I literally became petrified, uncapable of uttering a word… that’s also not normal.

    Our definition of “beauty” is constantly changing. It’s dynamic.
    At least, that’s my conclusion and what I wanted to say after all this.

    Like


  106. Obsidian, your words about friendship touched me deeply and actually do inspire me.

    My friend, why aren’t you the first American black president (lol) instead of Barack Obama? And btw, without pouring the conversation into race and/or politics, are you with him? If so, why?

    Remind that you will disapoint me if you are.

    Keep inspiring us, well… me, every once in a while.

    Like


  107. lovelysexybeauty–

    For me, honestly it would hurt me a lot to know that the man I love wants to be physical with another girl.

    There’s not a man alive with any kind of even fairly strong sex drive who doesn’t want to be after awhile. That’s different for women though it happens for many of them too even in very good sex and other relationships after a considerably longer time generally. More like after four or often six years

    Those that say they don’t are lying.

    Now right when first falling really in love, no, not so much.

    Like


  108. lovelysexybeauty

    @Obsidian – but if a woman is 20 lbs overweight due to growing up eating lots of carbs in her family but has a pretty face, isn’t it game if she loses the weight? If a girl is hot and sleeps around a lot and is known for doing so, isn’t it bad game if she doesn’t get that most men won’t to marry her? If a girl is an 8 and the guy she is seeing is clearly dating around, wouldn’t she tend to beat out the other 8 level competition if she’s sweet, feminine and fun to be around (rare traits in amnerican women today)? I’m sorry but I’m not totally understanding why you think there is no girl game.

    I agree with you.

    What guys mean is that guys are simply DEAD IN THE WATER if they don’t have game, natural or learned. The only exception in these feminist AA for women in the workplace days is men of supreme status (in women’s eyes), in which case the probably will have developed at least some game, and men of wealth. That’s a very small number of men.

    Women 7 and up have automatic looks game. I do agree with you that the girl game you speak of can make a real difference in what kind of man she can get, but she can get an attractive one without much girl game as you describe it. (You can’t really ascribe having a compatible or highly compatible personality to girl game. You CAN ascribe not acting like a feminist harridan, but more the opposite, to it.

    So yeah girl game matters. Just not nearly as much as guy game. But guys should welcome girl game with open arms. IT basically means girls maxing their looks for us, and acting un-feminist, in an active sort of way. You know, like those Eastern European and South American and sometimes SE or other Asian foreign girls that many here extol.

    Like


  109. V40,
    Thank you.

    I have great respect for Barack Obama; he is our country’s first African American President, and though I’ve never met him he seems like someone I’d like personally. Moreover, I respect the Office of the President of the United States.

    All that said, I respectfully disagree w/many of his stated policy positions and prescriptions and it was for these and other reasons that I could not vote for him. My criticism of Obama remains strictly in the public policy realms, and I am repulsed by what I consider to be banal and vitriolic personal attacks of the worst kind by some who oppose him. Dissing his wife, family and so on in my view have no place in reasoned and respectful discourse, and sullies us all as Americans.

    So, how have you been doing of late? I haven’t heard from you in awhile.

    O

    Like


  110. Maybe I should have my woman do some bootcamps for american ladies lol

    Like


  111. @Mandy:

    I’m talking pre-societal… The concept of a society isn’t possible without the sublimation of our base primal instincts (eros/thanatos dichotomy). Intellectual drives can thrive at the expense of the other two drives. I’m speaking in a psychological, not a historical context.

    The idea of being sexual and intellectual aren’t mutually exclusive though. I think you’re speaking on a different plane. Oh, and those pederastic relationships were partially oweing to the fact that their view of sex was indelible from the eros (intended in the strictly Greek sense) of intellectual exchanges.

    Like


  112. “Ok another thing I don’t understand: how do so many women break guys hearts? In my experience its the guys who play around, or just decided they weren’t into a girl, or weren’t ready to marry her, etc. Aren’t there more books for why men weren’t into a girl, than there are for men on the same idea?”

    People,
    Look at this average vallue girl that didn’t notice all the male suffering arround because she and her average vallue friends were too focused on having relations with high vallue Alphas.
    This disgusts me. In truth, I don’t know how a women can get a broken heart. A man to a girl is 1) Status 2)Lay 3)Slave

    Girls don’t like Guys.
    Guys love Girls.

    That’s why you have to put a ring on her finger in order to marry her (have her) while she will take you in order to recieve a ring.

    Like


  113. Obsidian–

    My criticism of Obama remains strictly in the public policy realms, and I am repulsed by what I consider to be banal and vitriolic personal attacks of the worst kind by some who oppose him. Dissing his wife, family and so on in my view have no place in reasoned and respectful discourse, and sullies us all as Americans.

    The personal attacks on BushII were far worse than those on Obama have been, even on high volume web sites. At first Obama was treated with kid gloves, even by those on the right.

    Bush never was, from the beginning of his campaign. Obama always has been, until a short while ago.

    Like


  114. [email protected]

    Girls don’t like Guys.

    Guys love Girls.

    You speak with deeply beta tongue.

    A beta to a girl is 1) Status/money 2)not Lay but security 3)Slave

    As (heavily) modified, true.

    Like


  115. Virgin,
    In my not so professional opinion, with an attitude like that, you’re giving women entirely too much power over you.

    Don’t let other people shape your reality so intensely with their self-absorbed actions.

    Like


  116. Obsidian, just to kill the Obama topic.

    Nice to know you were “uncapable” of voting for him.
    Also, I think he has too much ground to be attacked, wether personally or not but that family thing is indeed stupid.
    I mean this to Obama and to everybody else.

    But, in the Obama case, you see Michele Obama is nothing special, right? She’s not hot, she’s not classy, she really does not “fit” in the place the media wants her to fit.

    Well, here, there’s a media only adoration for Michele Obama it’s sick. The Obama adoration at least has political goals, right?

    Like


  117. Doug,
    First of al, I was equally appalled by the vicious and unrelenting attacks on GWB and Sarah Palin. That too sullies us as Americans.

    Second, I’ve always been of the view that one of the worst things that can happen to a Man insofar as Women is concerned, is coming into money. Because this runs the serious risk of being extremely ruinous to him insofar as running Solid Game is concerned. Men, being creatures of habit, tend to fall back on their wallets far more than necessary, which only sets them up to be “used and thrown away” to quote LSB. The best time to learn Game is when you don’t have any money, and quiet as its kept the best players are rarely the richest.

    O

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  118. Obsidian:

    This is why I respectfully criticize some of the posts here, such as the “Apocalypse Opener” and so on, because over the longterm they don’t promote good mental health-we’ve all heard how guys become disillusioned to outright hateful of Women because of the “easy” way they can pick them up, but I also submit that’s because human beings weren’t wired to simply “hook up”. Over time, it has to have a deliterious effect on us, and yes I mean Men.

    I disagree with this. There is no easy way to pick up women. It only looks easy if you watch a guy do it and ignore the 100 times he gets rejected for each success. The AO will succeed once in a while, but you have to take into account all the rejections in between, and there will be many no matter how good you are. Your slow way probably yields about the same results on average for the same amount of effort, but I would rather invest as little as possible in each girl before I have sex with her because I don’t want to be used. It is better to spend one minute and no money on 100 girls than hours and perhaps even multiple dates with one who might still reject you. I don’t want to give women anything if they don’t put out. So if one can muster the balls to do the AO and other “easy” approaches (I can’t regularly yet), then that is the way to go, in my opinion. It is more deleterious to my mental health to let women string me along and LJBF me. And just because you pick up a girl with the AO and other do-or-die approaches doesn’t mean you can’t have a serious relationship. That’s the difference between tactics and strategy; let’s not get them confused. Game is all about tactics. You can use it to persue a long-term or a short-term mating strategy just as easily. Now, if you are talking about exclusively pursuing a short-term mating strategy forever, then I agree it will eventually be deleterious to us. But even when the goal is an LTR, I favor quick tactics that leave the woman with nothing if she does not put out.

    Like


  119. on August 4, 2009 at 8:32 pm Black Military Man

    “But, in the Obama case, you see Michele Obama is nothing special, right? She’s not hot, she’s not classy, she really does not “fit” in the place the media wants her to fit.”

    Speak for yourself. I find Michelle a classy and highly educated career woman who “chose” to be a stay at home mom once the kids came along.

    As far as “hot”. She doesn’t have the face of Beyonce, but her figure comes pretty damn close (and even surpasses it, in my opinion – more toned).

    But I digress.

    Back to the topic at hand.

    Me: “Does your boyfriend know you’re flirting with me?”

    She: “Yeah, he told me to. You into threesomes?”

    So, how should I have reacted?

    Like


  120. How have I been Obsidian?

    Well… I lost the contact with my ten for two months, after a period in which she was getting slowly but constantly ever more distant.

    I ceased to get out with girls. I happened to replace bars for casinos. My parents give me 50~75€ a month and I play 100 every two weeks…

    I’ve been very busy with exams and entering to the University this last month. As well as getting a driving license.
    I’m also trying to improve myself – at least making plans of it – before entering University to see if I have a chance of something in the future. However, I’ll study the most beta thing: History.

    Also, some of my buddies 19 and 20 years old started to have access to regular almost 30 years old pussy.
    And I have a Philosophy teacher who may be wanting something… but I’m not mentally capable right now.

    I’m also turning 20 soon and I’ll do something great at a good beach resort wiht a great club of the kind I’ve never went to and invite some girls, my ten and eventually know others.
    I gave up smoking regularly but in parties or bars.

    Last weekend my ten was on the net and I was happy to know why she never appeared on.
    While I thought she was partying heavy with her boyfriend every since clases ended, she was in fact back to her country in Eastern Europe where she hadn’t been for three years. Now the sad thing: She went away in five minutes with a “we’ll talk later”.
    She never opened me back. I know she will not. And for now, I know I’ll at least invite her to my 20th birthday and will try to have “a friend” in her University to have an excuse to appear there.

    I’m just sad I’ve developed certain “disfunctions”. Like the childish hate I now have for my ten’s boyfriend and his buddies. As well as for the former best freind of my ten and girlfriend of my best male friend. And another girl as well who I’ve learned is more friend of the 10’s b.f.’s friends than me and her former best friends.

    I hate them because I instintly feel they “took away” my ten. And O, this is not healty at all.

    If it wasn’t for my current mission: The driver license and a car, I don’t know…

    It is suposed that the next Thursday, my former group of feriends will go out. I doubt it. They always say so but no one cares for each other.

    Like


  121. OH! And I found a local at least interetic PUA lair that claims to exist in real life. I’m thinking about laying an eye on it.

    Like


  122. I keep on hearing too much crap about legacy, society, marriage, kids etc.

    Tell me one thing, Who cares? Your genes don’t carry your mind. Humans are essentially the sum of their minds. Once you are dead, your genes might live on, but you won’t.

    In a few generations your descendants will be unrecognisable. Heck even your “beloved” wife and kids might stop caring for you in your own lifetime.

    So why care? Why compromise? Why go through all this trouble just to try and do the ‘right thing’? I prefer to live on my own terms rather than work to provide for an ungrateful bitch and her whiny brats.

    Really, what is in it for men?

    Like


  123. @doug1

    Nice further explanation, you put it more clearly than I could 🙂

    Interesting thought that for men, Game is more important. Hm….I bet Game can allow men to change a woman’s first impression of him. But a woman cannot use any sort of “Game” to change how much a man finds her physically attractive, after that first impression is made.

    Couple points:

    1) Most men have no clue how much control women have over their looks: the right hair color, hair cut, right eyebrow shape, right make-up can bring out an attractive girl’s features from unnoticed to noticeable. In addition to things like getting acne cleared up and losing weight, which can hide a girl’s beauty.

    Just look at how hot some celebrities look when they change their hair color or style, or lose a ton of weight. And of course subtle plastic surgery can make a huge difference: look at Britney Spears and Beyonce.

    These pictures show how much better Megan Fox looks with darker hair, 10-20 lbs. lighter (affects the face too), thicker eyebrows and some plastic surgery tweaks: http://stylefrizz.com/img/megan-fox-plastic-surgery.jpg

    2) Women all over the world need “game,” even those in societies where women are more naturally feminine. Here are stories on seduction schools for Russian women:

    http://www.marieclaire.com/world-reports/news/international/geisha-school-russia
    http://articles.latimes.com/2007/feb/11/news/adfg-manip11

    I sooooo wishhhhhhhh I could attend one of these. I bet they’d be really, really good. By the way I’ve heard of these types of workshops in Asia as well.

    For men, Game involves picking the right targets (women who give off indicators of interest). Women also have to “pick” men who are really, really attracted to them and are the committing type.

    Like


  124. on August 4, 2009 at 9:35 pm The Fifth Horseman (formerly Tood)

    Once thing I have noticed about the world is that the pendulum can be at an extreme for a long time, and a certain status quo can seem solid and permanent. But when it corrects back to the mean, the correction can be fast.

    We saw this with :

    1) The Soviet Union
    2) Dot com bubble
    3) Real Estate bubble
    4) Al-Qaeda (which really is a tiny shadow of it’s former capabilities at this point)

    We will, at some point, also see this with :

    1) California real estate and general economic viability
    2) Oil dependence and the resultant strength of petro-states
    3) The European entitlement society and low birth rates
    4) Feminism

    The corrections can be swift, and when most people are unprepared.

    Like


  125. on August 4, 2009 at 9:45 pm The Fifth Horseman (formerly Tood)

    About the PUA lifestyle, I don’t judge the guys who never want to settle down and all that. I do find it strange and bewildering because I just don’t see how they could be happy without a partner in life they are fully bonded to, who has their back and all that.

    LSB,

    Men face a conundrum. Most want to have a wife and kids, and be pillars of the community when they age, and die surrounded by grandkids and the like. Even for the minority of men fortunate enough to marry a woman who is an 8 or higher on the wedding day, the woman’s looks fade rapidly, and his sexual attraction to his wife is far lower even after just 5 years of marriage.

    Feminism, which is THE most hypocritical ideology in the world today, has behaved extremely irresponsibly in using sinister tactics to subjugate men. Divorce laws are absurdly biased against the man. An entire generation of men have suffered from this, and the seeds of backlash against women are being sowed. Average women who want nothing more to have a normal family will suffer in the backlash.

    Pre-nups are a must, which I told you before. The fact that your father was opposed to a pre-nup merely shows him to be a typical Indian ignoramus with a 12-year-old’s understanding of human relationships. Virtually all Indians of his generation have a shockingly incomplete grasp of this huge sector of human psychology.

    If you have a brother (or any similar male relative or friend) who is not yet married, MAKE SURE HE GETS A PRE-NUP. Don’t let some ignorant elder Indian display their stupid superiority complex about Indian values vs. Western (a huge joke. Indians are, by and large, lacking in moral fiber).

    Like


  126. I’m amazed that we have a post where the comments have gotten 121 deep without ..um..”evolving” .. into an argument about Black People, and whether they are a Good Thing or not.

    Like


  127. doug1:

    “Bush never was, from the beginning of his campaign. Obama always has been, until a short while ago.”

    That’s a lie. Sure, those on the left-of-center were attacking Bush, but so have those on the right with Obama. But the media never called Bush on any of his shit, not one iota, until after we were entrenched in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Now, some of the shit that Obama is talking about putting into place is worrisome, but one of the reasons I voted for him is because we finally get a referendum on liberal versus conservative principles. Perhaps it will provide a little evidence for the viability of each regime and do away with so much of the nuance that politicians hide behind. Thus far, liberals aren’t doing too well given that they are in complete control of the country.

    Like


  128. benjack,

    want to change that?

    Like


  129. The Fifth Horseman,

    Does the fifth horseman perform annalingus on the four horsemen and their horses?

    Like


  130. Please Chuck. The media was publishing pictures of Bush as a Vampire sucking Lady Liberty’s Blood, as the Joker, as a demon, as a chimp, from day one of his Presidency. He was de-legimatized and ridiculed on a personal level for 8 years, and still is. Along with Palin, who is now a private citizen.

    Meanwhile Obama is worshipped as a living god, with posters painting him as a saint, a unicorn riding Black shaman, and gay/SWPL yuppies labeling him as a “Lightworker” (no kidding).

    Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. Unless you get into a time machine and undo all the personal attacks on Bush, Cheney, and Palin, you can expect unrelenting and total attacks on Obama’s character, veracity, corrupt cronies, in the most vicious manner possible. Lack of restraint during 2000-2009 guaranteed it. [Obama as a matter of record LIES all the time about trivial and easily checked stuff like the typical son of a single mother always bragging himself up instead of actually doing.]

    Which is part and parcel of the deeply feminine/gay support for Obama. The cackling harpies on the View, Katie Couric, the gay/feminized media, gay SWPL yuppies like Mark Morford who believes Obama is spiritually superior, a “Lightworker” (not presumably, “Charmed” white-lighters, and presumably without the delightfully slutty Alyssa Milano) all fit into the “Big Man” socialist agenda. A hereditary aristocracy that runs everything (David Axelrod’s son is now running something at Huffington Post) is something women, who live princess fairy tales, and gays, all love. Along with the petty aristocracy of Hollyweird (Sean Penn’s hugs for Nutjob and thugs Chavez and Castro). Any pretty girl can sleep right to the top theoretically, and at least be a powerful man’s mistress.

    Meanwhile the August recess has been a fascinating display of sexual dynamics. Older men and women, in one way or another outside the sexual marketplace, are furious at their Dem Congress Critters and spitting mad. Even Keith (X) Ellison, the only Muslim Congressman (a protege of Farrakhan) got shouted at for Obamacare by his nearly all Black constituents.

    Yes of course Obama is the Joker. He just hates the US (for racial identity reasons related to his mother’s abandonment) and wants to see it burn. Just like his pal Ayers (who hated HIS father) wrote how he wanted to see the US burn. A matched pair.

    Lesson: never elect a guy who’s from a single mother (see: Clinton) much less one seething with resentment towards the US and Whites. Also: women and gays love the Big Man.

    Like


  131. I am bored therefore I am going to create a model of Tood.

    Tood:

    Parents = Indians who grew up in the 1950-60’s in India.

    Consequence = unlike those born after the late 1960’s these Indians always looked up to the white man.

    Ethnicity = North Indian

    Consequence = No self confidence or belief in self, because being ruled by muslims for a 1,000 years does that to you.

    Modus Opendi= Suck up to whites, pretend to be “white”, diss other indians.

    Reasoning= If I worship the white man, he might throw me some scraps. Let me play house n***er.. please!

    Other features: Constant self hate, doubt, requires validation from a white guy or girl, spends inordinate amounts of time and effort to become “whiter than white”.

    I just find it amusing, that is all.

    Like


  132. Tood,

    Why don’t you like what you are? Why do you have to define yourself? Who are you defining it for?

    Like


  133. whiskey:

    “The media was publishing pictures of Bush as a Vampire sucking Lady Liberty’s Blood, as the Joker, as a demon, as a chimp, from day one of his Presidency. “

    So…almost exactly like Obama? We have Joker and plenty of Chimp references. Are you talking MSM or fringe?

    “Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. Unless you get into a time machine and undo all the personal attacks on Bush, Cheney, and Palin, you can expect unrelenting and total attacks on Obama’s character, veracity, corrupt cronies, in the most vicious manner possible. “

    of course, Bush and Obama are polarizing figures….the opposite side’s base will despise them and engage in character assassination while each president’s base will wear rose-colored glasses when assessing the regime.

    the fact remains, bush didn’t get called on the carpet for his rushing us into war. It took a couple of years before the MSM grew the balls to start calling him on that.

    [Obama as a matter of record LIES all the time about trivial and easily checked stuff like the typical son of a single mother always bragging himself up instead of actually doing.]

    typical whiskey….always throwing bombs but refusing to back his shit up…i’m not stupid. but apparently you are if you believe that *any* of these motherfuckers aren’t lying or nuancing 50% of the time they’re speaking. provide me some of the trivial lies of Obama’s and i’ll provide you just as many from GWII.

    i take what you’re saying here with as much a grain of salt as your “insightful” basketball analysis from yesterday’s thread.

    Like


  134. O

    The best time to learn Game is when you don’t have any money, and quiet as its kept the best players are rarely the richest.

    Yes and no. Some basketball players will train with a thinner hoop – the handicap helps them be more precise. The handicap of being broke is good training.

    But for initial confidence boosting, being flush will get the motor running.

    So be an entrepreneur. That way you’ll have your ups and downs.

    Like


  135. Doug

    …If his playing was only under the sorts of rules I’ve outlined recently on this board a couple of times. Rules which fundamentally give you info and veto rights?

    I don’t understand the veto-rights thing. I don’t even see where voting rights come in. Is your relationship a democracy?

    In my household I’m the king. There are no votes.

    A king with a close eye on the welfare and moral of the people.

    What good would giving my mate veto rights over who I date do? I’m the best judge of if the new girl is likely to become the new #1. And I’ll be the judge if I want a new #1. No woman is going to tell me I can’t get a new #1. All she can do is try to remain interesting enough to rightfully captivate my attention to give her that position.

    I don’t share power.

    Like


  136. Poetry

    One of my exes would call on his way back from work: “I want a bourbon and blowjob when I get home.”

    “Yes, sir.”

    I like his style. Although I tend to be less formal. I prefer “Yes, Daddy”.

    Like


  137. Lovelysexybeauty,
    That Meagan Fox before-after plastic surgery pic was very illuminating. She was cute and pretty, but plastic surgery on her lips and nose, plus the hair color and tan put her over-the-top in appearance.

    Like


  138. lovelysex

    In my experience its the guys who play around, or just decided they weren’t into a girl, or weren’t ready to marry her, etc.

    Then your experience is more with the player types. I’m not sure what % of men start of their sexual careers as romantic, but I’d guess most of them.

    The player types are the rarities.

    Like


  139. Lovelysex

    But why would a man care, what specifically about female promiscuity bothers men? Is it a evo. biological artifact type of gut reaction, which may have developed to screen cuckoldery?

    I don’t care how many guys a woman has been with – as long as I’m the man who woke up her sex drive. Maybe the first to make her come, or to give her multiple orgasms, or to feel deep love during sex. Some sort virginity.

    Or if not that, at minimum I want to feel that I’m in the top 10% of whoever she’s been with, sexually, and that currently I entrance her beyond her control.

    Some girls you can’t grab with sex. THAT’s the problem. Men need sex as a hook to keep the woman in line.

    There is no more powerful hook. We need that power.

    Like


  140. xsplat:
    But isn’t it women who typically have that power over men, through biology and the selection process?

    Like


  141. I’m talking MSM: Vanity Fair did the Bush as Joker cover, and also the Bush as Vampire. LA Weekly did a pictorial picturing the lynching of Sarah Palin.

    Bush was called a “war criminal” … by Joe Biden, for the bombing of Afghanistan. Norman Mailer, Susan Sontag, and Eric Foner all celebrated 9/11 and blasted Bush for responding. Before that, the LAT, NYT, WaPo all ran endless series of articles blasting Bush as “selected not elected.” And constantly asserted a “corrupt bargain” in contrast to the total silence of Obama’s ACORN frauds.

    Obama lied in “Dreams from My Father” when he listed his “employment behind enemy lines” as a major wheeler dealer in an investment firm. Contrary to what he wrote, he did not have a secretary and an office, he worked at a cubical. The Black women did not cozen him, no one remembered him much for anything except sheer incompetence. He did not meet with Japanese and German investors, he was a copy editor for the financial newsletter. This was all stuff easily checked. And lies. On the part of Joe Biden lying about being under sniper fire in Bosnia and Iraq (untrue).

    By contrast, GWB did not lie about his personal experiences, and did not run (wisely) on his personal biography.

    Obama is the typical liar and boaster produced by Single Mothers. Lacking any status produced by the father in the house, he’s a boaster of unprecedented nature. Only Joe McCarthy and Adlai Stevenson came close. Even Bill Clinton gave BS-lies (“I didn’t inhale, I did not have sex with that woman”) that everyone knew were false, but were not boasting.

    Other than get his ass elected President, Obama never did anything, so naturally he lies all the time about his past, his person, his achievements, pumping himself up when he was a non-entity. Even Clinton (and I loathe Bubba) did not resort to the boasting lies that Obama habitually does (example: he “cleaned up housing projects” / translation: he was part of a lawsuit, he himself was never in court, to make the Chicago Housing Authority remove asbestos). He’s certainly been silent on his trip as a Columbia student, with a Pakistani room-mate, to Pakistan in the late 1980’s. Presumably that Summer trip was not for girls and the surfing. He lies about his Muslim roots all the time — in 2007, early in his campaign, he emphasized it, then it was a “libel” and after winning, he’s Mr. Muslim again, particularly in Egypt.

    He’s a habitual liar who lies about himself to cover up his innate doubts about his own self-worth as a bastard child. He is along with Nixon the most mentally unhealthy inhabitant of the White House.

    Like


  142. Lovelysex

    I do find it strange and bewildering because I just don’t see how they could be happy without a partner in life they are fully bonded to, who has their back and all that.

    But is it really so black and white?

    I refuse to commit, and yet I have two women in my life who have my back and want to grow old with me. I trust them as family.

    That doesn’t mean I commit. You never know, and I don’t know either.

    As of now, we’re family. What more could a person want?

    This future oriented thinking can get very extreme. A real poverty mentality. Like a mouse over-hoarding grains.

    You don’t have to commit in order to have all the benefits associated with marriage. Love, faithfullness (if desired), family, some level of trust, and deep bonds that lead you to cry sometimes when you come.

    Commitment is for people who fear.

    Like


  143. Re xsplat’s “Yes, Daddy.”

    Once I accidentally said “daddy” in the middle of sex, and my boyfriend was very taken aback by it. I think he might have judged me. Total Freudian slip.

    Like


  144. Mandy! xD

    xsplat:
    But isn’t it women who typically have that power over men, through biology and the selection process?

    It cuts both ways. Women are pretty easy to puppet, actually. Especially young ones.

    Most men won’t know this as they don’t put in the required time on the meditation cushion or practicing chi-kung or yoga or whatever body based meditation they choose. Most men are hugely out of touch with their emotions and body, and can’t play them as an instrument capable of playing another instrument. Sex is yoga. If you are good at it, you can totally own another person. Enslave them.

    Like


  145. Every man I have ever been with has had control in the relationship, save for my first boyfriend when I was 15. It’s the trade-off for dating older men.

    Like


  146. S

    Once I accidentally said “daddy” in the middle of sex, and my boyfriend was very taken aback by it. I think he might have judged me. Total Freudian slip.

    I totally play up this dynamic. I love it. Especially as role playing during sex.

    EVERY girl in the last 7 years I’ve ever been with has been hugely receptive to this. Maybe not at first, but if you set the frame right, they’ll love it. If for nothing more than how much the man does, at first, but then for the feeling of being protected and dominated and cared for. Of giving up control to an honored and respected and cared for man of power and mastery.

    Daddy. For men who haven’t tried it yet – try it.

    I can’t think of any more powerful trick.

    Like


  147. Links:

    Vanity Fair — Bush as Joker:
    http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2008/07/bush-as-joker.html

    Bush as Vampire:

    http://www.laweekly.com/2004-11-11/news/letters

    [Art by Shephard Fairey, the same guy who did Obama’s Hope and Change Stalinesque posters]

    Alex Ross did the Bush as Vampire drinking from Lady Liberty, I believe it ran in the LA Weekly but can’t find the link. Regardless it’s all over.

    Obama hates Whites (he wrote so in “Dreams”) and has acted in every way to confirm that through his own actions. He is the Joker — he just wants to see America burn (because he hates it). He’s typical of that sort of guy, along with a heaping dose of SWPL Gaia worshipping clap-trap.

    Like


  148. I forgot about these:

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=632405

    McCain as Blood thirsty vampire at Atlantic Monthly (they also photoshopped McCain to make him look bad).

    Also Palin as same:

    Palin vampire

    The Media is totally worshipping Obama as their living God, like most clueless SWPL yuppies. God I hate them.

    Obama as Unicorn Rider at LA City Beat:

    http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2008/10/30/obama-and-the-mythical-beasts/

    There’s this:

    http://www.weirdwolf.us/?p=151

    and this:

    http://www.boingboing.net/2008/12/05/nude-barack-obama-un.html

    Notice the homo-erotic component, both images done by men. Gays love Obama.

    Obama is the GAYEST President ever.

    Like


  149. Daddy dynamic gets me off, but I can see how the majority of prudish girls who have let themselves become so controlled by their conscious decisions to censor sexual thought, and therefore prevent growth of their sexual identities, might be put off by it. But, it’s definitely hot. Very hot. For some reason especially when the man is doing you behind with his hands wrapped around your waist. Or maybe riding him too. Or even with the wraparound in missionary. Scratch that – ALL the time.

    Like


  150. Lovelysexybeauty:

    Whether one calls it game, or strategy, or tactics, it’s all getting at the same idea of making choices that seem to yield better results.

    There seems to be some confusion about the distinction between mating strategy and tactics. In the interest of clearing that up:

    “Are Mating Strategies and Mating Tactics Independent Constructs?”
    Authors: J. Sabura Allen; Kent G. Bailey
    DOI: 10.1080/00224490701443601
    Published in: Journal of Sex Research, Volume 44, Issue 3, July 2007, pages 225-232

    Abstract
    This study explored the constructs of mating tactics and mating strategies. These constructs are conceptually related but distinct. In current research, the measurement of one of these constructs often is viewed as being indicative of the other. Therefore, an exploration of these constructs will enhance understanding of study outcomes in this research area. Self-report measures of mating tactics and strategies were administered to 183 female participants, aged 18-45 years. The Escalating Sexual Encounters Questionnaire (ESEQ, Greer & Buss, 1994), the Derogatis Sexual Experience Scale (Derogatis & Melisaratos, 1979), the Sexual Strategies Measure (SSM, Schmitt, 1996), the Sociosexual Orientation Inventory (Simpson & Gangestad, 1991), and two questions assessing age at menarche and total number of sexual partners were administered. Exploratory factor analysis with oblique rotation produced two distinct factors reflecting a “tactic”-based factor and a “strategy”-based factor. This finding is consistent with viewing mating tactics and mating strategies as distinct and varying independently. An important implication of this study is that measurement of mating tactics is not indicative of underlying mating strategies in women. Further, four patterns of female mating styles emerged upon review of participant factor scores and are discussed within an evolutionary context.

    These are the definitions used in this paper:

    A mating strategy is an integrated set of adaptations that organize and guide an individual’s mating effort. […] Sexual strategies theory (SST), described by Buss and Schmitt (1993), characterizes mating strategies on a bipolar dimension anchored by the concepts of short-term mating and long-term mating.

    A mating tactic is a specific act or behavior that promotes mating in some way, such as engaging in extra-pair mating, signaling sexual or romantic interest, promoting one’s physical attributes, or devaluing competition. All mating strategies rely on behavioral tactics to enhance the likelihood of strategy success.

    I don’t really understand why they call engaging in extra-pair mating a tactic, though. That seems to me more like a combination of short- and long-term strategies.

    This study found that mating strategy and mating tactics are essentially uncorrelated, at least in women.

    Loveleysexybeauty also said:

    About girl game, for me girl game is getting married to the best guy possible, and keeping him in love with you. It mostly involves maximizing your looks, but there are so many hot and hotter women out there. So girl game also involves making yourself stand out from the other girls at your level via personality, inner peace, being a fun challenge, etc. Girl game is completely different from guy game for the most part, both in its goals along with methods.

    The getting married to the best guy and keeping him part is your strategy, your goal. The methods you employ to accomplish this are your tactics, and only this part can be properly called game, as I understand it.

    Like


  151. xsplat said:
    “If you are good at it, you can totally own another person. Enslave them.”

    Do you finish by saying,”GET OWNED?”

    I kid, I kid.

    That actually sounds…appealing.

    @S:

    I accidentally called my boyfriend “Dad” once in a nonsexual context. I don’t think he heard. I hope he didn’t. So, so wrong.

    Like


  152. on August 5, 2009 at 1:46 am The Fifth Horseman (formerly Tood)

    Does the fifth horseman perform annalingus on the four horsemen and their horses?

    No, that would be you, Lucy.

    I figured out how you save money on your prostitutes. It is because you only go to GAY prostitutes.

    Ha Ha

    Like


  153. on August 5, 2009 at 1:49 am The Fifth Horseman (formerly Tood)

    Lucy wrote :

    I am bored therefore I am going to create a model of Tood.

    Translation : Lucy’s inferiority complex is so deep, that my superiority relative to him (which isn’t saying much) intimidates this faggot greatly.

    Modus Opendi= Suck up to whites, pretend to be “white”, diss other indians.

    er… You are dissed by EVERYONE here, Indian and not. Sometimes a creature is such an epic fail that no one can resist. You are, quite simply, the worst commenter ever to come here.

    Now go back to saying ‘Yand’, you potbellied Madrasi.

    ha ha ha ha

    Like


  154. S

    but I can see how the majority of prudish girls who have let themselves become so controlled by their conscious decisions to censor sexual thought, and therefore prevent growth of their sexual identities, might be put off by it

    Well, it’s really the mans responsibility to take charge in such situations. Push things just past her comfort level, back off to her comfort level, push it way past, back off, rinse and repeat.

    Women need to be initiated.

    Like


  155. Actually, making a woman feel a bit of fear in the bedroom, while at the same time a deep trust – that’s another trick any master needs.

    Unfortunately after a while there is no fear, and anything goes. Oh, wait, that’s a good thing.

    Like


  156. Off topic, but another little trick. Public sex. Especially in the vicinity of her friends or family.

    It’s one thing to command her “Say I love you Daddy” when she’s coming. That cements bonds, and associates you with both command and extreme pleasure. And love.

    Quite another to have her family hear the noises.

    Her cousin came over today to help with some work tasks, and I made him wait outside the apartment door for a half hour. Some noises you just can’t stifle.

    Public sex is similar to a marriage ceremony, only more romantic. A public declaration of union.

    Another reason I dress my girl up in ridiculously slutty costumes, and parade around town. She’s MY bitch. God that’s fun.

    Like


  157. That’s a good point, xsplat, but I’m not sure how effective it would be in reality. I’ve met some women who were so prudish they seemed asexual. It’s hard to imagine even the most dominant man freeing them from their mental chastity belts. I’m trying to imagine it in a personal context, but I experienced a lot of the desires I did even as a virgin. Thanks mostly to porn. I think.

    Like


  158. That’s funny about the family thing. I’ve done it within easy earshot of my ex’s family before, at a wedding, outdoors. I thought it was very risque, and consequently more exciting, to have his relatives greet us as we emerged from the woods. Oh, and his aunt picked some twigs off my dress curiously.

    Like


  159. I was at the pub on campus. It was a quiet Thursday night. This young cutie from the ‘burbs was out partying with her friends. I was standing with some male friends nearby. She kept looking over at me and checking me out. I went up to her and smacked her on the ass. We were bangin’ on her couch an hour later.

    A few months ago, I’m at a lawyer/doctor/mba party and I walk by this chick. She checks me out. I check her out. I stop. She stops. I say “hey”. She says “hey”. My penis is choking her 45 minutes later.

    Lessons learned:

    1. Be me.
    2. You don’t always need a good line. Alpha body language, and a badass attitude can take you far.
    3. Take opportunities when presented.

    Like


  160. Women don’t seem to be able to generalize.

    Some girls don’t like Daddy talk. ‘Never say “who’s your daddy?”‘, they say

    Some girls love Daddy talk. Always treat her like your lil’ girl, they say.

    Can’t we just agree that all generalizations are wrong? Always.

    Some girls like Daddy stuff and some don’t. Those that do generally let you know, and those that don’t generally don’t let you know.

    My last girl called me Daddy, and liked to put on glasses and would kneel down and beg me to bust on her face. The girl before her got mad when I called her a slut. You can never tell beforehand.

    Like


  161. Jam

    Again, I am not saying that PUA is not fun and interesting — it is. But like too much of a good thing (candy, video games, whatever) making it the focus of one’s life for too long leaves most men hollow and empty inside.

    I hear what you are saying, Jam, and I want to avoid that fate myself.

    But I think people compartmentalize to much. For instance there is a difference between love and lust. But why not have both, at the same time? Love is a zillion times stronger in the moments of the most hightened lust, and vice versa.

    Why not have principles and all good true and beautiful, and enjoy the company of many women? Maybe the two will not only not be mutually exclusive, but will enhance each other.

    I love my girls. That’s part of the whole process. It gives meaning and depth to my life. And the more the merrier where that is concerned.

    Like


  162. on August 5, 2009 at 2:19 am The Fifth Horseman (formerly Tood)

    Lucy asked,

    Why don’t you like what you are? Why do you have to define yourself? Who are you defining it for?

    I very much like what I am. I have almost everything that other people wish they had in life.

    I certainly don’t like what YOU are. No one here, Indian or otherwise, is willing to endorse your unhinged mental masturbation (which is alongside your massive physical masturbation).

    Like


  163. Chief

    My last girl called me Daddy, and liked to put on glasses and would kneel down and beg me to bust on her face. The girl before her got mad when I called her a slut. You can never tell beforehand.

    I’ve only known one girl who got her hackles up when I played the daddy/daughter dynamic with her. She was an ex, who I’d dated before I really took on that persona as my own. I think she didn’t appreciate the change in dynamic, and wanted to remain as some sort of equal.

    But at this point I AM Daddy. It’s internalized. So that’s what gets brought to the table from moment one.

    A woman who doesn’t like the dynamic – when properly presented – is likely chaffing at the idea of inequality. And that would seem to me to extreme arrogance. I date younger women after all, and I deserve the authority I assume.

    Like


  164. I think one of the reasons the whole “Daddy” thing seems wrong to some girls is that it brings up thoughts of incest.

    I’ve always found a sort of primal romantic attraction to dominance in stories like the one of Hades and Persephone or Beauty and the Beast. Those archetypes.

    Even a “master” type thing. But definitely not daddy.

    Like


  165. xsplat, that’s the thing. You get away with more as an older, experienced man. I don’t think I could afford the same deference to a guy my own age (20). Something about the situation feels decidedly more juvenile, and I can’t offer the same intellectual respect to him.

    I think the majority of girls like getting facials though. Having warm cum blasted on your face is surprisingly pleasant feeling, almost like stepping into a hot bath.

    Like


  166. Mandy, that time I exclaimed “daddy” aloud in the heat of the moment, I was most definitely not thinking of my own father, or anything incestuous. I don’t know how to explain it, but there’s a distinction your mind creates in a sexual context. I used to fantasize about my high school economics teacher, and I often thought about the daddy dynamic in those instances. Sitting in his lap, for one. I think it’s just the idea of “master”, or big, strong, protective man, being interchangeable with the “daddy” label.

    Like


  167. Once I accidentally said “daddy” in the middle of sex, and my boyfriend was very taken aback by it. I think he might have judged me. Total Freudian slip.

    That’s because you’re a weirdo. Any girl that pulls out the daddy reference with me is just going to have to deal with me leaving* in the middle of sex and not coming back or returning calls. A girl that says that out loud has some issues that I’m just not willing to deal with.

    *This is all highly theoretical since I prefer the company of my right hand over the average woman.

    Like


  168. David Alexander:

    Yeah, some men really get off on the fact that I’m crazy. There’s a niche for everything, I guess. Lucky for me. But really, my dad’s a great guy.

    Like


  169. S

    That’s a good point, xsplat, but I’m not sure how effective it would be in reality. I’ve met some women who were so prudish they seemed asexual.

    Well, the last two girls I’ve been with were disgusted at the thought of cock, and had revulsion at the thought of touching and kissing one.

    Now they both love to lick my anus.

    Asexual women are my specialty. Unfortunately, most women aren’t sexual enough, because most men aren’t either. But life is fun – people like to enjoy it. It’s not hard to show someone a good time, and have them learn to enjoy it.

    It’s simply a matter of educating someone just how much fun they can have. Once they have that fun, they’ll want more.

    Like


  170. whiskey:

    “Vanity Fair did the Bush as Joker cover”

    wasn’t on the cover. was on Vanity Fair’s blog. was timed to coincide with the opening of “Dark Knight” and also occured at *the end* of Bush’s presidency which had been much aligned by Obama *and* John McCain. McCain couldn’t get far enough away from Bush. part of the crux of this argument is that Bush was handled with kid gloves by the media even at the beginning of his term.

    there were many reports of his cocaine use (not saying that all dirty laundry should be aired, but rest assured the Republicans would have done so if they had such a story). he was the subject of favoritism for duty in Vietnam. the man who sent us into the biggest quagmire since that war didn’t face the same fate as most men his age.

    LA Weekly is an entertainment magazine. i’ll take them seriously for movie and music reviews but not my politics.

    it’s oh so laughable that you say Obama was elected on no substance when Bush was elected governor of Texas because of his name, his “oilman” title, and his 1% ownership stake in the Texas Rangers. if anyone should join Obama in the annals of Politicians with shallow resumes, it’s GWBII.

    here’s an obama cover from “The New Yorker”. the article was about the fear-mongering of Obama, but it captured the unfounded allusions to obama’s Muslim heritage.

    there was also the picture circulated of Obama wearing traditional muslim attire. cheap political ploy.

    obama has been called a socialist and muslim, for inflammatory reasons, by prominent figures on the right. if you actually look, obama is not much more socialist than any other American regime of recent history.

    MSM has taken hold of the “birther” story. Lou Dobbs has wrapped himself on it.

    http://journalism.about.com/b/2009/07/24/conspiracy-theories-about-obamas-birth-spill-into-mainstream-media.htm

    ***Here’s the point. Yes, I’ve always admitted that liberals are favored in the MSM, but that doesn’t mean that they get a blank check. Plus, almost all President’s get a little bit of a grace period at the beginning of their term. But Obama is not getting any more preferential treatment (as of now) compared to Bush. Bush wasn’t blamed for the recession at the beginning of his term, but Obama is.

    Further, the rise of blogs and secondary sources of media have greatly diminished the status of MSM. Rush Limbaugh has as strong a voice as The New York Times. Perhaps stronger as man people who read the Times read it without buying into it’s slanted view whereas most everyone who listens to Rush, Hannity, reads Malkin, or Coulter buys into what they say.

    You malign the liberal slant of a few deteriorating newspapers and magazines, but you don’t pay attention to many of the things said in other mediums and between men on the street. I’ve heard “Obama’s a nigger” or “fucking nigger” so many times I can’t count.

    Also, you completely sidetracked the main point. Magazine portraits aren’t all that important. Reporting on policy maneuvers and such by news organizations, are. Obama is not getting a free pass on healthcare or the economy, but Bush faced no tough questions from the media in the first year after he started the wars.

    Like


  171. S

    I used to fantasize about my high school economics teacher, and I often thought about the daddy dynamic in those instances. Sitting in his lap, for one. I think it’s just the idea of “master”, or big, strong, protective man, being interchangeable with the “daddy” label.

    Maybe I should try “Santa” some time.

    Like


  172. S

    I think the majority of girls like getting facials though. Having warm cum blasted on your face is surprisingly pleasant feeling, almost like stepping into a hot bath.

    Not sure about that. When I do it is is usually a form of dominance. A “what I say goes” attitude.

    I remember with a few girls the first time I did that totally freaked them out. Running to the bathroom freak out.

    Perfect.

    Way over the edge. Then back to baseline. Then just over the edge.

    Then way over the edge.

    And she always comes back for more. And then more extreme. Until…

    Owned.

    Like


  173. I should probably act more high maintenance, and uppity like that, but I can’t be bothered to invest that much effort in faking a gross-out. Which I know makes me gross on some level?? I guess?? Cum just makes things really fun. Oh, and it’s cool to look at fresh sperm through a microscope.

    Like


  174. @S

    I am going to hypothesize that most city girls like a big load on their face, and that most country girls don’t. We need a lab!

    @xsplat

    Ya, fuck. I totally forgot about some of the girls I’ve been with that were really not into sex or giving oral. These are the ones you have to treat nice.

    This one girl, she hated giving BJs. But after a few times with el chief, she’s in handcuffs, blindfolds and leather boots, on her knees, slobez le knobez, begging for more!

    You just gotta take it easy with this type of girl. Eat her out. Treat her nice, and she’s yours.

    Like


  175. …you have to eat out city girls too!

    Question to all the men here:

    Have you ever tasted your own cum? If so, in what context? And, what did you think of it?

    Like


  176. I’ve tasted my own salty seed only indirectly, via post-swallow girl tongue.

    A friend of mine, he’s from Winnipeg, he was banging this girl from behind, pulls out, grunts, blows a massive load. IN HIS OWN MOUTH. by accident.

    Good times. In your mouth.

    Like


  177. See, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with tasting your cum, especially to satisfy a curiosity. I don’t know why men aren’t curious about those things.

    Like


  178. I’ve always wondered if it was gay to go back in time and give yourself a blowjob.

    I mean, isn’t that just masturbation 2.0?

    Like


  179. I don’t think it qualifies as gay if you’re only doing it to see what it feels like, or if it just serves a masturbatory function. I would do myself if I were a man just to get the full S. experience. Maybe that’s the highest expression of narcissism, which is different from masturbation. I think.

    Like


  180. My response would be a simple “as if” or “you wish”.

    Like


  181. Dam whiskey,

    So apparently some guys should watch tv and look at the media so they can relay the bullshit to those of us who don’t.

    Good stuff.

    Like


  182. LSB,
    Again, w/all due respect, there simply is no such thing as “Girl Game” if by that is meant, a core body of knowledge, scientifically based and field tested, designed to attract Men for purposes of sex and/or commitment. None of the books you mentioned are truly comparable to say, the Mystery Method, or The Game, or Janka’s works, etc. I invite you to actually get hold of these works and compare them to works like “He’s Just Not Into You” and “The Rules”. No comparison.

    The reason is, simply put, necessity is the mother of invention-Women don’t have to do much to get laid other than put the word out that she’s interested and lay on her back/spread her legs. Women can always get sex a lot easier than can the vast majority of Men.

    Game came about as the direct result of Men needing some way to balance the scales in a postmodern world on the dating/mating scene. Women don’t have any such pressing need, hence no real “Girl Game” in the sence that any real PUA would recognize.

    As for your stated aims, I advise ALL Indian expats to simply not waste their time w/any Indian expat female who doesn’t put out prior to the “arranged” marriage. Why should he wait while she gets all the bennies? Indian expat Women, whom some of my buds call “HAPs” (a takeoff on “JAPs”), are among thee most self-absorbed and entitled Women around, who have no problem playing both sides of the fence-they want all the bennies of Feminism, such as career/education/independence, while at the same time insisting on holding out for the best possible deal for a longterm financial commitment in the form of marriage. Meanwhile, Sanjay gets…? Blue balls before the wedding, and God knows what after. I done lost count as to the number of Indian expat guys who are married and aint had their dick sucked in months if not years, to say nothing about gettin some on the regular. Meanwhile, they spending beaucoup cash on big assed houses, cars, etc et al, just to keep up appearances. Don’t get it twisted, Indian dudes in our time now are among thee biggest tools in the World.

    And right here in our forum, we can see the early beginnings of a very real backlash-both Tood aka The Fourth Horseman and Lucifer, both Indians, have quite a few words to say about all this here, and trust me when I tell ya LSB, they aint alone. You want my advice?-get beautiful, screen for the best guy you can get, do it before you hit 30, and when you get him, fuck his brains out. And keep fucking his brains out for as long as you can. Learn how to suck dick, well, get your girl S., she’ll put you D w/how to accept and enjoy getting regular facials. Study male anatomy and learn how a Man’s stuff works and how to work it. Keep your pussy well maintained, get some hi-quality Ben-Wa balls and use them regularly. If you’re really interested in developing and using “Girl Game” doing the above will all but guarantee that you’ll not only attract a good Man, but that you’ll also keep him, too.

    But get the I aint puttin out until marriage stuff outta your head, because I promise you, no Man you’d truly want would ever go along w/such an arrangement.

    As for the whole “Daddy” thing w/the females, Dave Alex as per usual should not be consulted in these matters. Dominance & submission is the natural order of things, especially when it comes to Male-Female sexual relationships. It is completely natural, as a girl’s daddy is the first Man she comes into contact with, and a big part of her sexuality is rooted in offering herself up to a Man more powerful, experiened, etc than herself. This is at the root of EVERY romance or erotica novel, film, etc. For every dominatrix or femme you can find there will be literally dozens of natural female subs. That is the way of our universe, and again it is wholly natural.

    As for Women receiving facials from her Man, again this is natural. It, like anal sex, is a form of her acceptance of him in every way, her offering herself up to him and his asserting his dominance over her. There is absolutely nothing wrong in the least w/this, and in fact those couples who engage in these things regularly are infinitely happier, both partners, than those couples who don’t.

    Finally, a word on “asexual” Women.

    These are Women who must be trained and initiated, as Xsplat has indicated, and they can indeed be trained-but the trick is, it takes a certain kind of Man to do the job. Patience, experience, and age are key here.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  183. on August 5, 2009 at 5:19 am The Fifth Horseman (formerly Tood)

    LSB,

    I’ll co-sign certain parts of what Obsidian says, in that there is no such thing as female Game, aside from making serious efforts to be physically attractive. Period.

    A woman who is a 6 will never, ever be competitive with a woman who is a 9. No way, no how. Unless the 6 becomes a 9 (which, while not impossible, can only be done in rare cases with a multi-front campaign of exercise, diet, yoga, plastic surgery, better clothes, better hairstyles, and better posture when walking).

    Plus, I have urged you before to choose a less egotistical handle than ‘lovelysexybeauty’. The probability that you are anything more than a 6 is slim to none. The choice of such a handle reveals deeper psychological denials.

    Go take two pictures of yourself in natural light. Post both of those on amihotornot.com. Unless the average of both of those two pictures is 8.0 or higher, you cannot consider yourself sufficiently attractive to get a top guy.

    Thus, follow Obsidian’a advice, and do what you can to improve your looks, and get married to the best guy you can before you hit 30. No woman, of any race, maintains the same attractiveness after 30. They fall, the only question is how steeply.

    And if the guy who is willing to marry you wants a pre-nup, show that you are a good woman, and sign it.

    Obsidian,

    Note that Indian ‘expat’ women try to play both sides of the fence, but end up being losers, and the Indian guys simply go to India and get a quick marriage to virgin who has been taught to be a dutiful wife (which is more accurately described as a ‘job interview’ marriage than an ‘arranged’ marriage). The expat woman, on the other hand, cannot do this. So to the extent that Indian expat women have advantages in the Western dating setting, the Indian expat guys have an easy path to avoid that battlefield altogether, while these Indian expat women do not (also given that very, very few are ever able to crack anything higher than a 7).

    Like


  184. ””””Tood,
    the Indian guys simply go to India and get a quick marriage to virgin who has been taught to be a dutiful wife ””””’

    Are you planning on doing this?

    Does the dutiful wife things transfer over for the indians you know or do they become americanized when you bring them to states?

    Like


  185. Canon

    This one girl, she hated giving BJs. But after a few times with el chief, she’s in handcuffs, blindfolds and leather boots, on her knees, slobez le knobez, begging for more!

    A man who takes his job seriously. Well done, Sir.

    Like


  186. Woops – attribution goes to Chief!

    Like


  187. on August 5, 2009 at 5:35 am The Fifth Horseman (formerly Tood)

    Does the dutiful wife things transfer over for the indians you know or do they become americanized when you bring them to states?

    Well, THAT, is the big unknown, and Indians don’t want to admit that it is an unknown.

    What a person is in India (where they are artificially kept to a childlike maturity level in sexual matters), is no indication of what they will be after 2, 5, or 20 years of exposure to Western culture, that too the unpredictable direction that Western culture may go in between now and 2, 5, or 20 years from now.

    So they have the same chance of being a good woman, as a woman of any other ethnicity. No higher or lower.

    Far too many Indian parents are hopelessly inadequatein understanding the complexities of human sexuality, within the modern world. They are themselves only 12 years old in mental maturity, even if their biological age is 55 or 60. They insist that the basic lust that may happen after meeting someone twice is the same thing as a lifelong commitment of love suitable for a 50-year marriage.

    I mean, what LSB wrote of her father is typical of Indians of his generation : boorish, lacking in finesse or nuance, and wholly ignorant of human nature, while believing that Indians are magically exempt from human nature. I call this WID, the World of Indian Denial. Lucifer is the high priest of this world.

    I know of an Indian woman who commited suicide recently, even while living in California, rather than get a divorce, despite having 1 kid AND the US divorce laws in her favor. I know another who thought about suicide and turned back from the lake years ago, then had 2 kids with the husband 5 years later, and even today complains daily about how much she hates her husband, before AND after having kids.

    There are others that conveniently use the US divorce laws to clean out their husbands too.

    So the answer is, it all depends…

    Like


  188. on August 5, 2009 at 5:48 am The Fifth Horseman (formerly Tood)

    LSB,

    First off, you are absolutely right about this :

    About girl game, for me girl game is getting married to the best guy possible, and keeping him in love with you. It mostly involves maximizing your looks, but there are so many hot and hotter women out there.

    I want to congratulate you on knowing this much, as so many Indian women here (Feministx, Desi FPUA, AuntiJi) are hugely in denial that a woman’s looks matter above all else, and that women cannot supercede this fact through anything similar to ‘Game’ that a man runs.

    However, you are drifting from what you wrote here :

    So girl game also involves making yourself stand out from the other girls at your level via personality, inner peace, being a fun challenge, etc.

    Well, being a nice person and not a bitch is certainly good, and will bring rewards to such a woman in the very long term. But in the dating market, this is not anywhere near as important as looks, EXCEPT much, much (years) later in a serious relationship. It should be, perhaps, but it is not.

    A woman has to give her looks the highest importance. Most major life/relationship goals she has hinges on this. That is why I am amazed to see even young women allow themselves to get fat. They thus destroy the component that comprises 90-95% of their market value in the dating market.

    Like


  189. Tood aka The 5th Horseman,

    I agree w/your initial points wrt a Woman’s basically fixed physical attractiveness; however, if I may, a Woman can increase her value to a Man significantly by being a very good Whore, Confidant, Friend, Lover & Mother to his children. To me, I’d rather have a Woman who’s say, a 7 w/these strong traits and qualities, than a 10 w/none. As you said yourself, a Woman’s looks WILL fade eventually. These other qualities, won’t. This, along w/the right attitude and mindset, makes a Woman’s value quite high, and she can successfully hint at these when considering suitors.

    As for expat Indian guys, true they can always return to India to marry a virgin gal from the sticks, but if he has any intentions on coming back here, he will need Game just the same for the obvious reasons. Bottomline: Indian guys need Game badly.

    Period.

    I might have asked you before, but what do you think of Matador’s work?

    O

    Like


  190. Tood,
    Yea, the irony is that the land that gave us the Kama Sutra has been reduced to this. Man, you can’t make this stuff up.

    O

    Like


  191. on August 5, 2009 at 6:08 am The Fifth Horseman (formerly Tood)

    Obsidian,

    Damn….I wrote a detailed comment that is under moderation. Wait for it – it has much that you will like.

    Yea, the irony is that the land that gave us the Kama Sutra has been reduced to this. Man, you can’t make this stuff up.

    I will say that Muslim cultures are even worse. What with fathers murdering their teenage daughters for wearing pants, etc. In London even, not just in Islamic countries.

    Infinity often leads to negative infinity. Baghdad was once the most advanced city in the world. Egypt was once the most advanced civilization. Victorian England was very puritan, but now British pop culture is more vulgar than America’s ever was.

    Like


  192. on August 5, 2009 at 6:10 am The Fifth Horseman (formerly Tood)

    Obsidian,

    “I might have asked you before, but what do you think of Matador’s work?”

    I have met him a few times (before he became famous), and know his real name. A lot of people today don’t know he is Indian.

    As recently as 2002, his Game was at novice levels. Then he shot ahead.

    Before Matador, there was also Kamal, but he got married and faded out of the visible scene.

    “Indian guys need Game badly.”

    Of course. Most are not even near being able to grasp *why* Game is necessary, though.

    The biggest enemy of younger Indian men and women, are their parents and older relatives. These people are from the ‘job interview marriage’ generation, and are so fully brainwashed into a bill of lies that 3 hours of interaction is sufficient for a lifetime of marriage, that they are openly hostile to their kids dating. They also think being of the same sub-sub-sub caste within the Indian mosaic is the sole metric of compatibility (a byproduct from a time when everyone in a small village new each other and were tightly interdependent). Multiple books could be written on how this massive blind spot/cognitive dissonance about natural male/female sexuality distorts every aspect of Indian culture. EVERY Western-made Indian film for foreign audiences (Bend it like Beckham, Monsoon Wedding, Bride and Prejudice, Mississippi Masala, etc.) is ultimately about the sexual ignorance and unthinkingly enforced dogma of older Indians, and how young people manage to find a way out of it. It is like a Jew escaping from a death camp, or a black slave escaping from their 18th century plantation.

    This, above else, is the reason Indian culture failed (yes, FAILED). The existence of dysfunctional bitter Omegas like Lucifer, seeking to project blame onto the West rather than look inward, is a byproduct of this.

    “a Woman can increase her value to a Man significantly by being a very good Whore, Confidant, Friend, Lover & Mother to his children. To me, I’d rather have a Woman who’s say, a 7 w/these strong traits and qualities, than a 10 w/none. ”

    Well, yes, but this only becomes apparent in the very long term. One cannot know, even after 1 year of dating, whether the same woman will have these traits at age 50.

    So they don’t really factor into the dating market (even though it would be great if they did).

    Like


  193. DA:

    That’s because you’re a weirdo.

    You really do have a right to choose your path but don’t try to pull others into your vortex of pathologising sexual desires, depression and self-hate.

    Like


  194. Tood: My mother’s skirt shocked last night shocked me. My uncle seemed not to mind. Where’s my knife, mother needs slaughtering.

    Whatever, if the media wants to focus on poor Bangladeshis/Pakistanis who’re backwards and muslim equivalent of chavtastic, then it’s nothing new.

    How many doctors and/or researchers are muslim by the way, StatMan?

    Like


  195. LSB: Do not have sex with him before marriage. Not a traditional man who wants a virgin wife. Or a man who wants a traditional wife but plays around otherwise. Don’t do it. Ruins your chances completely.

    I think some people need to remember cultural contexts before launching into that sort of advice. Or at least not be biased in favour of Getting Men Laid At (mostly) Any Cost.

    Like


  196. on August 5, 2009 at 7:13 am The Fifth Horseman (formerly Tood)

    Bhetti,

    My mother’s skirt shocked last night shocked me. My uncle seemed not to mind. Where’s my knife, mother needs slaughtering.

    Surely you know the difference between a strawman anecdote vs. actual tendencies. Honor killings of adolescent daughters by fathers and brothers have happened in Muslim families, even in Canada and in Britain. In many Islamic countries, this happens quite a bit. Public stoning, while less frequent, also happens, which itself is shocking to begin with.

    Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc. tend to have a lot of this. In Iran, the state has hung teenage girls for being lesbians. In Saudi Arabia, just recently a girl was punished physically for talking to a man in a car. Actuallly, Bangladesh and even Pakistan are less prone to this sort of thing, than Arab countries and Persian Iran. Wealth certainly has no corelation to Islamic moderation..

    No one can deny that honor killing happens regularly, and just as damning is the relative lack of condemnation of it from other Muslims.

    And remember, I am someone who actually wants Islam to start clashing with feminism. Just not in THAT way.

    Like


  197. Come on tood when you say regularly gonna have to show some numbers. 1 a year is not regularly. It is more legendary. Like the guy form chicago how did it my former brother in law told me about but that was the only example of that he had.

    Like


  198. Off topic:

    I’m sure roissy and others (like whiskey) will enjoy this.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/movies/31grant.html

    Like


  199. A traditional man who wants a virgin wife is just a man-boy who doesn’t feel the confidence to compete in the sexual marketplace, and so wants his wife ignorant of the competition.

    It’s a boy-man who refuses to take responsibility for his sexuality, and the value of it to the relationship. Someone who thinks he’s good enough just the way he is, and his wife should accept him.

    That’s the same attitude of feminism to fatness. It’s the womans responsibility to stay slim and fit, and the mans responsibility to be able to fuck like a man. To compete with the ability of others, and hopefully excell.

    Like


  200. Help me
    I think Im falling
    In love again
    When I get that crazy feeling, I know
    Im in trouble again
    Im in trouble
    cause youre a rambler and a gambler
    And a sweet-taiking-ladies man
    And you love your lovin
    But not like you love your freedom

    Help me
    I think Im falling
    In love too fast
    Its got me hoping for the future
    And worrying about the past
    cause Ive seen some hot hot blazes
    Come down to smoke and ash
    We love our lovin
    But not like we love our freedom

    Didnt it feel good
    We were sitting there talking
    Or lying there not talking
    Didnt it feel good
    You dance with the lady
    With the hole in her stocking
    Didnt it feel good
    Didnt it feel good

    Help me
    I think Im falling
    In love with you
    Are you going to let me go there by myself
    Thats such a lonely thing to do
    Both of us flirting around
    Flirting and flirting
    Hurting too
    We love our lovin
    But not like we love our freedom

    Like


  201. I awoke today and found the frost perched on the town
    It hovered in a frozen sky, then it gobbled summer down
    When the sun turns traitor cold
    and all the trees are shivering in a naked row
    I get the urge for going but I never seem to go

    I get the urge for going
    When the meadow grass is turning brown
    Summertime is falling down and winter is closing in

    I had me a man in summertime
    He had summer-colored skin
    And not another girl in town
    My darling’s heart could win
    But when the leaves fell on the ground, and
    Bully winds came around, pushed them face down in the snow
    He got the urge for going
    And I had to let him go

    [ Find more Lyrics on http://www.mp3lyrics.org/1TWu ]
    He got the urge for going
    When the meadow grass was turning brown
    Summertime was falling down and winter was closing in

    Now the warriors of winter they gave a cold triumphant shout
    And all that stays is dying, all that lives is getting out
    See the geese in chevron flight flapping
    and a-racing on before the snow
    They’ve got the urge for going, and they’ve
    got the wings so they can go

    They get the urge for going
    When the meadow grass is turning brown
    Summertime is falling down and winter is closing in

    I’ll ply the fire with kindling now, I’ll
    pull the blankets up to my chin
    I’ll lock the vagrant winter out and bolt my wandering in
    I’d like to call back summertime and have her
    stay for just another month or so
    But she’s got the urge for going and I guess she’ll have to go

    She gets the urge for going when the meadow grass is turning brown
    And all her empire’s falling down

    Like


  202. Joni Mitchell groks lotharios.

    Like


  203. A traditional man who wants a virgin wife is just a man-boy who doesn’t feel the confidence to compete in the sexual marketplace,

    BS

    any man wants a virgin wife. what is beta is hiding your failures with women through unrealistic high standards.

    my first best option is 18-year old virgin, 7-8 in looks, who cooks well and is a practicing Catholic. what I do to get one:

    – follow the Primal Blueprint of Mark Sisson (keep looks)
    – earn lots of cash
    – donate money to Catholic charities to be invited to their meetings

    Like


  204. George Sodini, the man who shot and killed women at a Pittsburgh gym last night, was upset that no women liked him. He didn’t have sex since 1990. He left a web diary. I hope that Roissy blogs about this. I am concerned that as more and more men are shut out with women we will see more of these horrific crimes. This is a must read.

    georgesodini.com/20090804.htm

    Like


  205. on August 5, 2009 at 9:17 am Seeking Alpha

    – donate money to Catholic charities to be invited to their meetings

    Wow, that’s actually pretty smart.

    I can see both points on marrying a virgin. I’m biased… my fiancée was a virgin before we met.

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it per se, but you shouldn’t use it as an excuse to not improve your talents. I know I’ve gotten ten times better from where I started and it’s always improving.

    I also don’t buy that just because a girl is a virgin it means she won’t notice if you suck. If she’s not getting off, she’ll realize that. Maybe in the 50s you could get away with that, but anyone who didn’t grow up in a hut in the jungle or a Mormon compound will have seen what a girl enjoying herself during sex looks like, whether from TV or movies.

    Like


  206. Woman in huts in the jungle have way more time for sex than the average american.

    Like


  207. just another irony who knew. You don’t need to be told about sex from books to enjoy it. lol

    Like


  208. Tood,

    I have no illusions about Indians, especially Indian women.

    Where I differ from you:

    1. You seem to have a perpetual race based inferiority complex. I do not.

    2. You actively seek acceptance by whites. I do not.

    3. You wish you were born white. I could not care.

    4. You agree with those who say ‘your type is inferior’. I just point out the deficiencies in their beliefs.

    Like


  209. on August 5, 2009 at 9:34 am Comment_Whatever

    I find the fact that the web-diary wasn’t immediately purged…. absurd.

    This is the typical American refuse-to-say-anything cop-talk that normally surrounds such actions:

    Moffatt said police were not sure who the target of the shooting was, but witnesses said moments after the incident that an ex-girlfriend may have been targeted. Moffatt wouldn’t confirm that.

    Moffatt said the gunman went into the health club planning to shoot several people — firing “multiple” weapons “indiscriminately,” — and didn’t say anything before unleashing a burst of bullets.

    The gunman was a member of the health club and had identification, but that police needed to check fingerprints and speak to his family to confirm his identity, Moffatt said. The Allegheny County Medical Examiner said three of the four victims had been positively identified early Wednesday, but their names would likely not be released before midmorning.

    Moffatt said police recovered at least two guns from the scene and that a note was found in the shooter’s duffel bag, but he would not say whether the shooter had written it.

    NOT SAY WHETHER THE SHOOTER HAD WRITTEN IT!

    In conclusion, if you are an IDIOT, then you can believe the web-site. It is FAKE. If it were real… much like the NOTE the ACTUAL GUNMAN left behind, then the police would SHUT IT DOWN. Just like they ALWAYS refuse to say what was in the note in these cases. ALWAYS.

    But listen to the government sock-puppet web-site say all the appropriate lies if it makes you feel oh-so-smart.

    Cop Moffatt keeping his cards close:

    Moffatt would not say what kind of guns were used, but he believes the gunman was their legal owner.

    Even the guns used are a super-super secret! The killer is DEAD, everyone agrees he is GUILTY, but even the weapon used in the attack… witnessed by dozens of people… is super-super secret.

    But oh-yeah, they left a detailed web-site up!

    SUCKER.

    And yeah, I’m tired of everybody lying about everything. He is dead. Just publish the damn note. And remove the fake website used to slander others for the actions of a man who probably didn’t even believe one word written on a website that isn’t his.

    Like


  210. on August 5, 2009 at 9:36 am Seeking Alpha

    if it makes you feel oh-so-smart…

    SUCKER…

    Firepower
    would do this
    justice

    Like


  211. Jay Fink,

    People often forget that the single biggest cause of non-gang related homicide is disrespect.

    Like


  212. on August 5, 2009 at 9:44 am Comment_Whatever

    My above comment is about:

    George Sodini, the man who shot and killed women at a Pittsburgh gym

    That is the only part of the ‘story’ of the fake web-site that I believe.

    Like


  213. Has anyone noticed that non-gang guys who kill more than 5 people at once usually have issues with women?

    Like


  214. I did a whois on George Sodini website, and it seems real. Created before the rampage.

    Registrant:
    George Sodini
    244 Orchard Spring Rd
    Pittsburgh, PA 15220-1714
    US

    Domain Name: GEORGESODINI.COM

    Administrative Contact:
    George Sodini
    Sodini, George A
    244 Orchard Spring Rd
    Pittsburgh, PA 15220-1714
    US
    (412)276-6401
    [email protected]

    Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
    George Sodini
    Sodini, George A
    244 Orchard Spring Rd
    Pittsburgh, PA 15220-1714
    US
    (412)276-6401
    [email protected]

    Domain created on 01-Aug-2000
    Domain expires on 01-Aug-2010
    Last updated on 19-Dec-2008

    Like


  215. Comment_Whatever,

    One of the more desirable consequence of our ongoing economic crisis is that we can no longer afford to support a large number of police and prison personnel.

    You do know that we imprison a larger % of our population than china.

    Like


  216. My last comment with the details is stuck in moderation, but according to the WHOIS search I did, the George Sodini domain was created on 01-Aug-2000, so I think it is real.

    Like


  217. I have to say that I agree w/Xsplat to a large extent. I’ve never been into the whole virgin thing, and don’t mind my Woman having other lovers before I come along (within reason-having two dozen or more guys running up in your Woman aint cool), and welcome the challenge to put memories of her past lovers to bed, so to speak.

    Also, following up my comments about “childlike” Women, I consider that whole virgin obsession to be part of that, and that’s something I don’t vibe to at all. I want a Woman who is experienced, and, failing that, has a heck of a lot of enthusiasm to learning how to screw properly. But as a rule, yea, she’s gotta know what she’s doing at least to an extent.

    As for George Sodini, I haven’t checked the link…but if it’s true, it only goes to strengthen my points made to Doug wrt the importance of Women in the lives of Men, that without them Men become dangerously dysfunctional on a whole host of levels. Often in a lethal way.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  218. Arpagus,

    Have you noticed one peculiar but common response.

    “It was all his fault, he was self centered, jerk.. whatever”

    Almost nobody is willing to say the obvious, namely that he was not a true outlier.

    Like


  219. Obsidian,

    Have you looked at Sodini’s picture? He was not even ugly, fat or poorly dressed!

    Like


  220. The name and address and everything about the website looks genuine.

    It would have taken me a lot less than 19 years of involuntary celibacy to do something like that.

    All I can think is kudos, really, if the diary is real. Here is a man who fought back. I have often felt the same way after a mere year or two of celibacy. The injustice of how easily girls can have sex while men can’t and feminism deliberately making it even worse makes you really, really, want to kill someone, though I would go for rape first.

    I was reading several posts on different forums and it seems many teenage girls have sex frequently. One 16 year old does it usually three times a day with her boyfriend. So, err, after a month of that, this little hoe has had more sex than ME in my LIFE, and I am 48. One more reason. Thanks for nada, bitches! Bye.

    Like


  221. on August 5, 2009 at 10:12 am mandy been here a while

    gig

    my first best option is 18-year old virgin, 7-8 in looks, who cooks well and is a practicing Catholic.

    Be careful what you wish for or you might end up with kids like me 🙂 Catholic mother, non-practicing Jewish father, its a cliche almost.

    Like


  222. bloomberg doesn´t publish news about shoot-outs. so am I right in supposing America has got yet another one???

    Muslims ? Sexually repressed Asians ? WHite EMOs ?

    Like


  223. Arpagus,

    That is why I just buy sex. It is cheaper, on tap, and you can get the experience you want. Just do your research on a few local escort review boards before hiring any particular escort.

    Like


  224. @Obsidian, Tood
    I don’t know, I think it takes much, much, much more than being an 8+ to get a top man. I strongly believe it rests 60% on the woman’s personality.

    I have observed a close friend and then a relative of mine who are men magnets. We’re talking diamonds, all-paid trips to NYC, to the countryhouse in France, all around the world…

    One of the girls, a close friend, does not in my opinion even touch 8. A cute 7 at most. But she is bubbly, zany, full of life, and incidentally, could pass for 14 or 15 years old but is 20.

    The other is 50 years old. She could be a model, she is super thin, beautiful skin and hair, exotic looking (constantly asked her country of origin but she is plain ‘ol American). I’d rate her a 9.

    She’s received marriage proposals, favors, diamonds, trips even up to her age of 50. But she has a magnetic, sparkling, enticing personality. She’s funny yet biting. Can be bitchy but never annoying. Always fun.

    These two women have exceptional personalities. I have to think without those personalities, they wouldn’t render as much attention. The first due to being only a 7, and the second due to her age.

    Like


  225. Is this the same guy?

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/george-sodini/3/2aa/466

    George Sodini
    Systems Analyst at K&L Gates
    Greater Pittsburgh Area

    Connections:28 connections
    Industry:Legal Services

    Like


  226. @LSB
    “For me, honestly it would hurt me a lot to know that the man I love wants to be physical with another girl.”

    Interesting. Not to generalize too much, but I think men can have sex w/o the attachment… they can go experiment with, fulfill some crazy needs/wants w/ another girl, then go home, make love to, and live their happy, public and home life with the one they love.

    Women, we tend to get the emotional entanglement.

    After a while, I think all men want to try some new flavors. But it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you or respect you.

    Like


  227. Lucifer,

    Must be him. He talks about the same job in the diary. I joined that site to view his full profile, but it didn’t have any more information.

    Like


  228. Search internet woman getting killed all the time over the divorce rules. Just another day.

    Like


  229. Arpagus,

    So we have an educated, non-ugly guy with a decent job. He still could not find a woman!

    But then again, I am not surprised.

    Like


  230. Lucifer:

    You do know that we imprison a larger % of our population than china.

    China doesn’t have blacks.

    Have you looked at Sodini’s picture? He was not even ugly, fat or poorly dressed!

    Indeed.

    “Twas hypergamy killed the Beast.”

    Like


  231. There is a hidden message in the source code of his blog.

    At the gym I saw a woman I like. I see her at the park and ride sometimes, so she isn’t a stranger. Occationaly she makes good eye contact and smiles, etc. She is maybe 40ish, and attractive to me. I made brief conversation to her and a younger woman she was with today. To get a friend like her (and for night time action) I would cancel this plan, or put on hold, at least for a while.

    It wouldn’t take much to prevent this, but he couldn’t even get that. He couldn’t get any woman and I know exactly how that feels. I am not the least bit surprised, either.

    Like


  232. Arpagus,

    I realized something after reading his site.

    He felt that no woman (even his mother) cared about him or loved him.

    Like


  233. have any of you rewatched falling down or taxi driver through the lens of game or female hypergamy? interesting stuff

    Like


  234. Arpagus – awesome article! That defined the difference between the strategy and tactics part of game. Although I suspect game is really more about tactics, since strategy can vary slightly in its goals.

    Like


  235. Different men have different preferences in terms of how much they are willing to tolerate in terms of a girl’s personality relative to her looks. I think personality, feminity, even prestige (if a girl is in a hot profession like modeling or on tv) can primarily put her ahead of the competition with other girls at her level of looks only. I personally am not ready to say a 6 can beat out an 8 on non-looks factors, though I also have seen it happen as dreamer mentioned. So obsidian – I still don’t understand where we disagree about girls having game for getting a guy to commit, you took things a step beyond me and said you would trade off for a much better personality and hotter sex for a girl who is maybe a tiny bit lower on the beauty scale. And you yourself said women can improve their desirability by becoming better at sex. How is that not game?

    Like


  236. Different men have different preferences in terms of previous sexual behavior of a woman they would marry/commit too. So obsidian and xsplat – great that you don’t care about virginity, that’s your choice. But that is your individual preference, there are many guys out there who either don’t mind a girl with limited experience or even prefer it. My decision to not get physical before marriage is not a tactic but a personal decision based on my spiritual beliefs, self awareness of how emotional I am, and also biology that says women are not programmed in general to have peace through promiscuity. I am very aware of that my choice to wait until marriage means that some men will not like me, and that’s fine – I have no illsusions about it and I accept the repurcussions. Its more important for me to live out my values and protect my heart, and as bhetti mentioned in some cultures it is the norm to not have sex before marriage. Anyway. Xsplat and obsidian are not the marrying type and my guess is those types of guys

    Like


  237. Quick and dirty all purpose response: silence and slightly bemused look

    Why it works: Opening game is one of the only battles in life a person does NOT want to get the last word in.

    Like


  238. I have to admit I struggle with the notion that its looks alone and not a combo of looks and personality. My gal pal and I were on vacay together recently and hit the town we were in. IMHO she is hotter than I am, blond, tall, wears short shorts and has legs to kill for, however when we go out I’m always approached first. Knowing what I know about Game I wondered if I was just the ruse to get her, but men don’t ask about her and aren’t making me feel like the ugly step sister. The difference I see between the two of us is personality. I’m bubbly, friendly and will smile easily to strangers. She gives off an aloof air, it’s shyness in truth, but it gives her a snooty vibe. Which leads me to believe that personality does indeed play a role in attraction. Thoughts?

    [editor: attainability. most men are fearful of approaching hotties and will often settle for a better shot with a reasonably cute lower ranked woman.]

    Like


  239. Yea aoefe what you say alone can help determine outcomes.

    Like


  240. ””’LSB,
    Its more important for me to live out my values and protect my heart, and as bhetti mentioned in some cultures it is the norm to not have sex before marriage.””””””’

    Well yea one of my wives will be a virgin.

    Like


  241. Was trying to say that it seems like guys who don’t plan to ever marry seem the most open minded about girls with lots of previous sexual experience. Interesting correlation isn’t it? So basically I am not too concerned about my choice, I believe in looking at results not so much theorizing and the results for me have been that I have been proposed too, guys like me, etc. I definitely have my areas to improve and as I get older I know I have to be realistic about what to expect. I am just trying to live my life in a way that will ma me happiest just like everyone here, so I’ve enjoyed reading all of the comments. I am open to changing my views, can’t say the commentary of obsidia, tood, etc has done that today but its definitely making me think about things. Also, the guys I interact with in real life, including guys from my culture, do not fit what has been brought up. I could spend a full day just listing links to wedding websites, and articles, and talking about anecdotes which show a different perspective bit i

    Like


  242. Tood:

    No one can deny that honor killing happens regularly, and just as damning is the relative lack of condemnation of it from other Muslims.

    Widespread condemnation of the terror attacks didn’t seem to help. Western imams at the very least seem to reject it quite soundly.

    I wasn’t using my anecdote to disprove what you’re saying. It is true. I can’t say how often but the idea of violence against female members if they’re sexually deviant is culturally prevalent in muslim culture. Although the automatic instinct is to protest, it is true and something that I myself worry about. Alternative solutions like marriage are more common in my circles.

    This isn’t an exclusively muslim idea though.

    I’ve e-mailed a sheikh to try and get the official rulings on it a few days ago (re:infidelsarecool quoting something or other) and am still waiting on this.

    Just mostly highlighting to any members of the audience that muslims come in different flavours. And positive contributions of muslims.

    Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc. tend to have a lot of this. In Iran, the state has hung teenage girls for being lesbians. In Saudi Arabia, just recently a girl was punished physically for talking to a man in a car. Actuallly, Bangladesh and even Pakistan are less prone to this sort of thing, than Arab countries and Persian Iran. Wealth certainly has no corelation to Islamic moderation..

    I don’t think either us can prove anything without figures, figures, figures. You can’t generalise about Arab countries specifically, considering important differences between them. I don’t doubt instances have occured.

    Wealth certainly has no correlation to Islamic moderation..

    That’s really strange if true. I assumed it wasn’t due to being hopelessly classist, I suppose. Does education have a correlation, I wonder?

    Like


  243. Roissy said “attainability. most men are fearful of approaching hotties and will often settle for a better shot with a reasonably cute lower ranked woman”

    Makes perfect sense now that I think about it. Jeesh and here I thought it was my winning personality….crap.

    Like


  244. But I am not really into doing a big discusiion on indian culture today, and identity issues, and marriage practices, etc. It kind of bores me, suffice it to say I disagree with the perspective that’s be communicated here and some day maybe ill get in the mood to share my different perspective. Again, different guys want different things from a life partner, some are happy with a pretty and young virgin girl who is basically mute, some want a woman who is hot but they can confide to as well, some want a pretty girl who understands them, etc. There are billions of people in the world, there is room for all of us to have our preferences and get what we want with a little flexibility

    Like


  245. on August 5, 2009 at 12:39 pm Comment_Whatever

    Websites are just bits and bytes on a screen.

    You know what you see today.

    Big deal.

    Like


  246. S-

    Daddy dynamic gets me off, but I can see how the majority of prudish girls who have let themselves become so controlled by their conscious decisions to censor sexual thought, and therefore prevent growth of their sexual identities, might be put off by it. But, it’s definitely hot. Very hot. For some reason especially when the man is doing you behind with his hands wrapped around your waist. Or maybe riding him too. Or even with the wraparound in missionary. Scratch that – ALL the time.

    This is just the most recent in a bunch of posts from you that are getting more revealing and that are making me think you are maybe hot. Or maybe very hot. In bed. So to speak.

    I loved it when my 19yo best college gf called the 21 yo me daddy. Her idea, novel to me. She was being intentionally feminist transgressive. The feminist abhorrence of this should be looked in the mouth – for serious tooth decay. There is the sugar daddy thing to be avoided, which feminists like to harp on. But mostly when girls want to say daddy, they’re expressing attraction to a lovingly dominant male figure, probably with more experience in the ways of the world than them, and their desire to be in some psychological way at least taken care of by him. But not necessarily a huge age gap. But maybe as well.

    No girl would feel an emotion pull to say “daddy” to a high income wimpy beta male provider. If she did, it would be pure act. Or soon would be.
    .

    Like


  247. LSB,
    Hang on for a moment. Have you read either The Game or the Mystery Method? If you haven’t, please do, then holla back. We can have a much more informed and balanced discussion. Fair enough?

    O

    Like


  248. aoefe–

    The difference I see between the two of us is personality. I’m bubbly, friendly and will smile easily to strangers. She gives off an aloof air, it’s shyness in truth, but it gives her a snooty vibe. Which leads me to believe that personality does indeed play a role in attraction. Thoughts?

    The way to think of it aoefe I think is that men have attractiveness thresholds. Particularly for long term relationship exploration sort of hooking up. Once the attractiveness threshold is met, which may be 6, 7, or 8 depending on the man, then factors other than looks start to play an equal or greater role. So a guy who’s threshold is 7 will choose a sympatico fun to him 7 over a haughty seeming 8 quite frequently. However looks are still in there competing with personality, her education and status and other factors, so an 8 who’s fairly close on personality but not quite as pleasing to the guy on that front as the 7, still might win. That will depend on HIS personality/values. 8’s start to get into trophy category, especially lots younger 8’s do.

    The magic number for a girl to get to is 7. A 7 with enough of the types of things you mentioned has a real shot at most kinds of alpha, except perhaps a super alpha male 3 levels ahead, if she meshes with him. Even better an 8 of course. I think there aren’t many guys who’s true threshold for a LTR is higher than 8.

    A 6 really can’t compete very well for alphas in LTR’s. Except perhaps in some ethnicities. But there she might not be considered a within group 6. I personally think and have observed I think that are more slut 6’s than at any other level. They’re always reaching for alphas, many of them, but can’t hold onto them. They also let many a higher beta (male 7) get occasionally lucky.

    Remember that even though Roissy talks about relationship game too, his thinking on these topics is formed primarily by pickup and fling sex. There guys often really are on a looks maximization mission period, so long as she clicks enough to respond to his game. But that’s more or less self limiting. (Well some of us put a bunch of weight on bed heat and D/s receptivity too.)

    Like


  249. on August 5, 2009 at 3:58 pm The Fifth Horseman (formerly Tood)

    Lucy/Loserfer wrote :

    1. You seem to have a perpetual race based inferiority complex. I do not.

    Projection. All you ever do here is proclaim that whites are about to collapse as a civilization. Quite insecure.

    2. You actively seek acceptance by whites. I do not.

    Projection again. I am quite good friends with Obsidian too.

    I never put down any other race, but you go out of your way to insist that ‘America will collapse’ despite knowing absolutely nothing about America.

    Your deformed mind equates ‘not hating whites’ with ‘wishing one was white’.

    You go to prostitutes, because you are an utterly defeated man with absolutely no chance of getting a woman in a relationship. This is known as an Omega.

    I am an Alpha with solid Game. On this board, I mostly help others, whereas everything you say reveals a self-loathing and knowledge of your inferiority.

    It has nothing to do with being Indian. You are just a loser, by any measure. Period.

    Like


  250. Doug, the men I’ve been with described me as sexually refreshing, open, and exciting, but it’s not a very accurate gauge of how I am in bed, oweing to bias or what not. I’ve often wondered what the average woman does or is willing to do in bed, and if it’s much different from my style.

    Like


  251. on August 5, 2009 at 4:01 pm The Fifth Horseman (formerly Tood)

    Bhetti,

    Wealth certainly has no correlation to Islamic moderation..

    People from highly educated and prosperous backgrounds have become terrorists (both leaders and suicide bombers).

    Ayman al-Zawahiri is a doctor.

    Some of the 9/11 hijackers were engineers, and had upper class upbringings.

    The person who tried to set of a nail bomb in a London nightclub was a Doctor.

    Mike Hamdi worked at Intel at a senior level, but was later found to be a Hamas operative.

    The 7/7/05 London Tube bombings were done by rich kids.

    Poverty is certainly not the cause of Islamic terror. There are too many counterexamples.

    Like


  252. S. the average woman is willing to do anything you want her to in bed. Does that help?

    Like


  253. Yes, definitely helps.

    Like


  254. A 6 really can’t compete very well for alphas in LTR’s

    As long as she’s having sex with an alpha, does anything else really matter?

    Like


  255. This is just the most recent in a bunch of posts from you that are getting more revealing and that are making me think you are maybe hot. Or maybe very hot. In bed. So to speak.

    Wouldn’t her lack of hotness basically destroy any erection despite her sexual vibe?

    Makes perfect sense now that I think about it. Jeesh and here I thought it was my winning personality….crap.

    Somebody made a bad presumption and thinks she’s hot…

    You really do have a right to choose your path but don’t try to pull others into your vortex of pathologising sexual desires, depression and self-hate.

    My kink is better than your kink.

    Dominance & submission is the natural order of things, especially when it comes to Male-Female sexual relationships.

    Some of us have no desire to being in a relationship where you’re basically barking orders to your sex partner in order to get a damned orgasm.

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  256. @gunslingergregi – ” the average woman is willing to do anything you want her to in bed.”

    There is truth to that, the issue is many men don’t have a clue what they want to do in bed!

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  257. This is good to say when she is implying you should buy a drink for her

    “hey, does your boyfriend know you’re flirting with me? we gotta tone it down, ok”

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  258. Doug

    (Well some of us put a bunch of weight on bed heat and D/s receptivity too.)

    Yes.

    And overall submissivity as well. Although I don’t wait around for that, I just command. If the woman isn’t working, she’s working for what needs doing around the house – even if that includes some of my business needs. She’ll be pulling her weight. And take commands and get pleasure in it.

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  259. ””””””””aoefe
    @gunslingergregi – ” the average woman is willing to do anything you want her to in bed.”

    There is truth to that, the issue is many men don’t have a clue what they want to do in bed!””””””””’

    Pretty much sure most of them know how to sleep lol
    Just got to tell em to use their imagination.

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