That Sinking Feeling

Stomach dropping. A pressing, radiating hollowing on the innerside of your solar plexus. Eyes widening to surprise-shaped orbs, drinking in threat. Face burning with bloodrush. Clammy hands, racing brain.

If you’ve ever lost a girl’s attention to another man, you know that feeling. It could be a first date who unexpectedly sing-songs an encomium about some guy who’s been on her mind, or a girlfriend you’ve started dating whose eyes dart around the room checking out other men as if you’re blind and can’t notice her distraction, or a more established girlfriend who betrays a wobbliness of the knees and a yearning in the voice when an ex-boyfriend joins your company.

You’re losing her, and that sinking feeling is your bioalert system letting you know she’s slip slip slippin away.

What do you do? When it happens, the advice from players with icy game in their veins is usually a variant of the following:

– Flirt with another girl. Act indifferent. You demonstrate high mate value by maintaining state control and refusing to get flustered by the imminent threat of another man or your woman’s emotional straying. Re-establish your attractiveness by signaling preselection from other women, and unlimited options which you threaten to act upon.

In other words, make her come back to you, like an iron filling to a magnet.*

This advice is given because it works. No doubt about that. But the problem is that certain conditions are needed for practical application of the advice. One, you need other single women around with whom to tactically flirt. Two, you have to be a borderline psychopath to be able to remain so coldly unaffected by the whirlwind of emotions emanating from your limbic engine room. That kind of eerily cold indifference to romantic outcome is either innate, or developed from years of profligate poon plunder.

Most regular guys don’t have years of poon plunder under their belts. And most of the time you’re out with a girl, there won’t be readily available single women within eyesight to welcome your counter-attack flirtations. You will be left with your date/girlfriend, her roaming eyes, and your sinking feeling, and that’s it. So, what now?

I’m about to give the best piece of advice you’ll ever hear on this subject. Advice that’s worked for me when I most needed it. Here it is. When you feel that sinking feeling:


Don’t even tell her you’re going. Simply walk out. This is the best… BY FAR the best… method for maintaining your aloof indifference in the face of reproductive annihilation. Get away from the negative stimulus that is impossible for you to properly manage, and you won’t be there to announce your beta insecurity to the world. Leaving in a flash has a second benefit: It frightens your woman. It fills her with the fear that you might skip out on her for good, to cash your higher value mate chips in at a better paying table.

Now this won’t always work — she might stay behind and wind up making out with someone else; but if that happens, she was never close to being your woman, so you saved yourself wasted investment — but when it does work, it works like a MOAB. Plus, you get to enjoy the wonderful, if temporary, feeling of taking the manly initiative and salvaging your dignity.

In the latter scenario, she’ll come running out, sooner or later, maybe the next day, hurling invective, demanding explanation. This is not the time to express the pain of your romantic disappointment like a lovesick beta. Drive the id shiv in a little further, with a twist of ambivalence: “I felt like going. Do you want me to slap on a GPS monitor so you can track my whereabouts?”

Chaser-chasee roles… INVERTED.

Reward good behavior intermittently, punish bad behavior promptly.

Her company should now improve. But if it doesn’t you have the luxury of timing the release of your disappointment with her behavior during happy moments when she least expects your ire, and when your state control is set to Maximum Aloofness. There’s nothing so psychosocially exhilarating as catching a woman off-guard; it’s similar to how a curse is more effective when you lull your foe into complacence with calm rebuke and then drop the soulsmashing insult at the very end.

*Some players recommend calling a girl out when she mentally strays, sort of an agree & amplify of an unspoken context. For example, “Hey, eyes over here you crazy slut. At least wait until I’m gone before you throw yourself at another man.” CH does not agree with this strategy. It sounds workable on paper, but the reality is quite different; you’re more likely to come across butt-hurt than bemused.


  1. “Leave.”

    Best advice you’ve ever given on this website. Don’t play the competition game with a woman looking elsewhere. Would you get into a fistfight with another man over her? Of course not.

    Once she’s declared that “you’re the one” (i.e. her boyfriend/date for the night), her looking at another man is either a shit test (leave) or she’s actively looking for your substitute (leave).


    • I once offered to introduce the girl to the object of her attention. She was instantly apologetic & submissive.


      • > “That Sinking Feeling”

        I gotta be honest with you – I have never had that sinking feeling.

        In fact, my visceral reaction has always been to think to myself, “Thank God I had a chance to see what a filthy stinking whore she really was – before I had made the mistake of getting involved with her more seriously.”

        > “Leave.”

        Also great advice.

        Just leave.

        The only big caveat here would be if you drove her to the function yourself.

        Then you still have the moral obligation [whether you like it or not] to make sure that she gets home safely, without being brutally raped and ax-murdered by roving feral Sons of Obama.

        In which case, you can walk up to Mr Big Shot, and slip him $40 [or $60 or $80 or whatever would be appropriate for your zip code] and tell him, “You own the situation now, dude; here’s some cab fare, so as to make sure that she gets home safely. Adios. I’m outta here.”


      • No


      • on October 28, 2013 at 5:40 pm Modern Primitive



      • Completely wrong and not “game”…this is butt-hurt. By approaching him you would you RAISE the other guy’s value by slipping him any amount of money. You would be “beta provider” chump by even suggesting a ride home of any kind. Leaving or better yet leaving with someone else would create dread.

        I’m now practicing this. It doesn’t work to the exact script that is in the original post, but the girl I’m doing this with is flipping out….I know this because she’s crying, she’s posting nonsense on Facebook alluding to either deliberately not caring about me or pretending to be happy—over-acting.

        I’m still mid-way through my own transition but what you suggest is creating drama.

        In my understanding of game the pua/MAN is to avoid the over communication and strive for “covert” communication. Leaving or better yet “disappearing” creates mystery. Mystery gets hamster spinning. Hamster spinning creates attraction.


      • > “and not “game””

        You’re right, it’s the antithesis of game.

        It’s called “honor”.

        If you drove her there, but then you up and leave in a huff, without making sure that she gets home safely, and if, after you leave, while she was trying to make her way home by other means, she instead gets brutally raped and ax-murdered by Sons of Obama, then HER DEATH IS ON YOU.

        If you drove her there, then you have a moral obligation to see to it that she gets back home safely.


        So either swallow your pride, and see the evening through to its natural conclusion, and make sure that she gets home safely [no matter how humiliating it might be for you].

        Or else man up, and confront Mr Big Shot directly, and tell him, in no uncertain terms, that he now owns the situation, and that ensuring her safety for the rest of the evening is ON HIM.

        Then and only then can you leave.

        It’s called being a man.

        As opposed to being a whiny little boy-cunt.

        PS: I agree with Heartiste that there are plenty of evo-psych games which you could play to lure her back to you over the course of the evening [the most obvious being to hit on all the rest of the chicks in the joint, just like she’s hitting on Mr Big Shot].

        Which is perfectly fine – spend the rest of your time at the function however you want to spend it.

        But if you drove her to the function, then make DAMNED CERTAIN that she gets back home safely at the end of the night.

        Her physical safety is not negotiable.


      • Are you sure you have enough room in your car for that pedestal as well?


      • on October 29, 2013 at 2:15 am The Spirit Within

        If she’s looking around, she doesn’t need your help … in any department.

        Zombie Shane has an excess of commitment. I imagine him holding a jambox in a gray trenchcoat under some broad’s window.


      • Zombie Shane comes across as pretty masculine. My guess is his pride can handle her flirting better than some, and he would rather make sure she gets home safely. It seems he would be doing it from a position of strength, rather than weakness, which makes all the difference. She’d probably be fine, but if he wants to drive her home, it isn’t a big deal.


      • kfg, that’s perfect. I laughed.


      • You only owe that if she voted anything but Democratic otherwise its called reaping what you sow..


      • I’m busy with Halloween shit this week but:

        “I’m now practicing this. It doesn’t work to the exact script that is in the original post, but the girl I’m doing this with is flipping out….I know this because she’s crying, she’s posting nonsense on Facebook alluding to either deliberately not caring about me or pretending to be happy—over-acting.”

        Just a reminder: this is all on track. Remember, you don’t take her back until she gives up. All of this over-acting “whatever I love my grrrlz men are stupid YOLO” stuff is just her hamster going haywire trying anything and everything to get you to react in some way.

        She’s still too in love with you to even consider seriously being with some other dude. 5 Minutes of Alpha and all that, so there’s no risk of her updating FB with “in love with (some other dude)” and you not being able to get her back easily. I could txt any of my exes from years ago in whatever relationship they’re in and they would come back to me without hesitation. That’s just the power of being attractive/alpha to her.

        In fact she MIGHT bang some other dude or post FB pics of her with some guy cuddling and posting all “so in loooove with my new man!!” but even THAT is just part of her hamster trying to get you to react. Any guy she gets with simply won’t have the ability to build as strong a connection with her as you had, in a short time-frame.

        So you’re doing good. It’s hard, but trust the psychology and stay the course. If you take her back while she’s going haywire, you reward her drama behavior and teach her that “starting drama WILL work, I just have to start ENOUGH of it” and set up a terrible long-term pattern that will escalate because next time you fight and she’s in the wrong and you need a break and ignore her even when she gets to this level of behavior, she’ll just escalate her behavior to an even HIGHER level because you taught her that “sooner or later, it’ll work”

        When she’s given up and truly thinks you won’t react anymore, and goes silent again, that’s web you can re-establish contact and allow her back. Note the wording there: not GET her back, ALLOW her back. This should be your frame.

        When you do let her back in, you can even tell her during cuddle talk after the make-up sex “I missed you, but when you were spazzing out like that, I didn’t want you back in my life because I don’t like drama. And all I could think was “I wish she would calm down and quit acting out so I could let her back into my life…”” That kind of thing 1) builds the relationship back cause you’re showing you missed her when she had given up, and 2) makes her know that it was her behavior that was unacceptable and keeping her out of your life, so in the future she knows that that behavior will result in punishment and ideally learn to avoid it.

        Good luck, just wanted to drop some support in cause I know this stage is rough. I’ll respond to your other post about caring about women when I have more time, but your “I thank everyone who helped” text was solid…aloof but keeping the line of communication open. Initially when she acts up you go full radio silence. But as she starts to accept that you might really be gone, you still allow communication, you just take away the good feelings from it.

        It’s like Mystery’s freeze out technique with a girl giving LMR. He’s not mad at her, he simply turns on the lights and pulls out a chess board to play with her. He’s not being actively mean, he’s simply removing the good feelings and validation she was getting, until she fixes her behavior. She’s free to keep in touch with him etc but she won’t get those good feelings back until she quits with the nonsense behaviors. But that initial couple weeks needs radio silence partly to send a blunt shock to her and partly to give YOU time to build up some resilience and fortify your emotions for the upcoming weeks as the dynamic goes through the stages of a Soft Next.

        You’re doin’ good, keep it up. When she gives up, you can re-initiate things on your terms.


      • awesome post.


      • Brilliant, reminds me of Cesar Millans playbook – exercise, discipline then affection…


      • @YaReally. Update, today I just noticed she deleted me as a Facebook friend. Interesting. I suspect she wants to move on. Or is this another attention-getting move?


      • @YaReally…. 2 weeks no contact. So far she’s reached out in a friendly way, angry way and now deleted me as a Facebook Friend.

        My reaction has been….nothing.

        This is in contrast to the pre-game me. I would have called her on some of this stuff especially the FB delete.

        But seems the right way is to feign naivete to her gaming me.

        Seems there’s some other scenario, either she’s going with someone else OR perhaps more likely she’s so angry at my flipping the script and not responding to any of her nonsense post “bye” that it’s causing her hamster to go into over-drive.

        Two things…one, yes I’m overly invested and so have been gaming other girls.

        But secondly, being a student of game, I’m keen to know what are the right reactions. Seems NOT reacting is counter-intuitive. But the best and safe play—just as “leaving” is the best play in the original post.

        You can’t punch air. If you’re gone it saves you the trouble of being seen to be struggling and imagination is a guy’s best weapon in game.


      • ZS– I love you brother in the way that two Eyes Wide Open Europeans ever could. Your predilection for RealTalk and proclivity for necessary Violence have won me over utterly. B U T— You appear to still be respectful of women that do not deserve the same.

        The girl that turned me into Jay in DC worked like this— College girlfriend, walking out of the house of the guy she just fucked, me, outside waiting. Her– surprised. I drove her to nothing. She was simply a Jersey girl that loved the cock and I was a naive D-bag college boy. But my darker side was already being cultivated even then. I invited her for a car ride to talk about her transgressions.

        We left the house, his cum still dripping out of her, that is ok, this was still a teachable moment. You see, she was the vanguard of our current crop of western women more than a decade ago. Do what you want to who you want, when you want. You are never fallible you have no consequences, and you are always right.

        We drove into the night, into a wooded area. My questions got more pointed and her answers got more femi-nazi. “Yes, he has a bigger dick than you”, “yes I liked it”, “I’m done talking to you, take me home”.

        And then, the record skipped because she had no frame of reference for someone who was more appreciative of the undergods of Cthulhu then anything from the high heavens. (Matt K, are you sure about above and below?, I am not convinced yet).

        After her rather aggressive protestations about dick size and loving the cock I reacted quite ferally as one might. A slight violent push of that beautifully coiffed head against a car window was more than she could imagine after uttering such whorish obscenities. Stunned and reeling from this strike she now knew fear. Fear that no woman today I think has ever experienced for acting in a similar manner, and it makes me sad. I then decided to remove her from said vehicle, under protest, by the hair, in the dark of night. In utter blackness, in an unfamiliar place, with no way out, no light source, and no way home.

        Would that we could have ONE, just ONE Jay in DC on every college campus educating our current whores why their lifestyle will destroy us all.


      • I hate replying to my own comments and I do it rarely but this is important. Rape isn’t about sex it’s about power! Nooooo femicunt, it is mainly about sex. Whoring yourself out isn’t about sex, it is about power, in this case, it is about both equally. You have the power to control men utterly through pussy and they will cut each other’s throat for this if they don’t have other options. So who REALLY what power in 2013? It ain’t the swingin’ dick fo’ sho’ its the willing hole, and she knows it.


      • Every time I hear a fairly decent guy tell a story like this, I think to myself:

        Where were you when I was 20?

        Hell, 16. I probably could have gotten parental permission from my crazy Christian folks with assurance that you’d let me finish high school before knocking me up.

        Oh, that’s right, you were chasing whores who would fuck someone else and then expect you to drive them home.

        Those of us who had good dads and didn’t want to treat guys like crap and were slim and very fit and even pretty, but didn’t wear a ton of makeup or curse unless an expletive was actually appropriate, and never in polite company were getting ignored so you einsteins could chase sluts.

        I have about as much sympathy for you dudes as aware former nice guys have for old cat ladies.

        But there is some saving grace in being nice and female. Eventually, because vagina attached to some good sense is so rare and precious, someone marries us. We might still lose him to a whore, but at least for a few years we get to function as we’re supposed to…live the dream.

        Maybe that’s the balance. We have to get it right early or we miss out, but if we do get it right, and things go wrong, we can look back with no regrets even if the future isn’t so great. You dudes…Seems you have to suffer for a decade before you get it through your thick skulls that a pretty girl with no manners or morals is not just useless, but a hostile useless that will hurt you.

        After that, you have years to get it right, but by then old habits die hard, and your orientation is pretty locked. Once you get a taste of stupid, smart still isn’t as attractive for some reason.


      • on October 29, 2013 at 7:46 am Ferqual's Ghost

        Just a quick question here – your reaction to being cheated on was to drive someone into the woods, slap them against a window and finally leave them there?

        And you’d like *more* people to do this? … why? Seems kind of a waste of time, is all. Oh and one step short of a assault charge.


      • “Those of us who had good dads and didn’t want to treat guys like crap and were slim and very fit and even pretty, but didn’t wear a ton of makeup or curse unless an expletive was actually appropriate, and never in polite company were getting ignored so you einsteins could chase sluts.”

        150% agreed. So true, Nicole. Great post.


      • Just got to pop in and say BRAVO Nicole for this post. So on point!


      • It’s an inversion of reality that men are oblivious to “good girls” that are attractive in favor of wanting the company of sluts.

        What you were seeing Nicole is attractive men that could fuck sluts while keeping you in their pocket. Meanwhile the population of the Earth that weren’t either hot guys or the women that throw themselves at them didn’t exist in your world.

        Are you really trying to say you couldn’t land a guy at all because all of the men were having their entire attention commanded by sluts? Sounds like some bullshit to me.


      • Kyle, that is not what I’m saying at all. I thought I made it clear that the advantage of being female is that if we’re realistic and not even that pretty, some quality guy will marry us, even if he doesn’t keep us forever.

        What I’m saying is that I have no more sympathy for the slut chasing man than I do for the alpha riding woman. It’s the same: people chasing the nightmare because Hollywood says it’s cool and/or because they have so little self esteem (which is more crucial for men) that they have to validate themselves through their partners, and do so on the shakiest of standards.

        It is somewhat understandable because beauty is so important initially, but except for a few rare cases, dudes aren’t even selecting based on raw beauty. Since you seem like a guy who has a little bit of sense, think of all the women you know…now think of all the raging sluts with a history of mistreating men who show them real affection…now out of all of those, pick out the ones whose beauty is so great that looking at them is its own reward and in natural terms, should make a guy ignore her notch count or bitchy behavior.

        Though it may seem rare, you probably know more hot girls with a bit of sense, who may even seem not to know they’re hot, than you know hot girls who are shagging half the town and/or treating whoever they’re with like trash.

        Most of the bitchy, sexually unethical women have visible signs of low-ness, and most are not actually prettier than other girls. There’s just something in way too many guys that finds this attractive.


      • This is a pretty good story, Jay. But, what happened afterwards? Did you ever see her again?

        I bet if this experience happened today, you’d handled it differently. Or, maybe, today, a woman wouldn’t even get to point she cheated on you because either you select different women, or you give off scary vibes.


      • Immediately afterwards her beta herb brother was going to come and “kick my ass”, which everyone knew he was incapable of but he was just showing out for his kid sister. I was called a psycho by our circle of mutual friends which, interestingly, just generated more female interest towards me from those who weren’t in her immediate circle. (Again, positive reinforcement from a young age).

        She came back after school for summer vacation about 6 months later and we hooked up just for that night she was back in town. *shrug*

        @Ferq’s Ghost And you’d like *more* people to do this? … why? Seems kind of a waste of time, is all. Oh and one step short of a assault charge.

        Had every guy on every campus done this at that time who was in a similar predicament do you still think it would be a waste of time? Teaching the morally unconscious about cause & effect, and meting out righteous punishment is sorely lacking in society. It is why modern woman is really modern child. She lacks what should have been instilled as a child in a non-upside down world.

        re: Assault charge- She could have filed one, but as I’ve said before once you’ve established that fear is not your primary driver in this world then a person wonders if poking a stick at an already enraged tiger is really a good idea. We wouldn’t have half the abhorrent behavior we currently have if this was normative instead of an outlier.


      • You should turn it into a novel on day, and make the ending different. End it the way you wish you could have ended it. You’d have a slew of feminists after you, but who cares. You’ll get lots of attention just from them trashing you. LOL.


      • Blood sample on your windshield or it didn’t happen…

        In all seriousness I’d never advise my son that approach instead you..
        Don’t ask once you know shes a whore drop her like a bad habit or treat her as such and know the arrangement.

        Why risk catching some hot lead from a ticked off relative your lifes worth more than any lesson you think you might be teaching damaged goods. Because a father isn’t going to remember the part about her being a whore if he hears you left her in the woods. Dads still have guns right?


      • Briefly to both you and Lily who I did not respond to all the way above. I’d do this differently today too but that is born of experience and wisdom. Remember this was an “Origin Story”, X-Men style of how I came to be what I am today. At 19 with no wisdom and experience with the sociopathic amorality of your average entitled semi-wealthy Jersey chick this was like being shot in the throat for me. Hence, my blindingly white hot rage and physicality with her. This would never happen today and I can spot woman like this within minutes now of engagement. Her father’s arsenal, or lack thereof was not in my immediate thoughts, I simply lashed out animistically on instinct.

        p.s. Lily- I lied, I have struck a female once, VERY hard, and never since then actually. (I had largely forgotten about that incident)


      • “p.s. Lily- I lied, I have struck a female once, VERY hard, and never since then actually. (I had largely forgotten about that incident)”

        That means, she really got under your skin. You must have had very strong feelings for her, which is why your rage got the better of you. This is why in most jurisdictions, if you kill someone in the “heat of passion,” it doesn’t carry the same penalty as premeditated murder. Of course, with some zealot district attorneys, there is a movement to be more strict against voluntary manslaughter. Influence of feminism, more or less.

        In any case, if you’re just dating a girl causally, could you feel rage against her sexual betrayal? Doesn’t rage only develop when you’re in love with a woman and she betrayed you with another?

        “This would never happen today and I can spot woman like this within minutes now of engagement.”

        Am I to take it that you’re finally staying way from whores? But, can you get off with a good girl? I am under the impression many here bitch over whores, but would never even consider dating a good girl.


      • Jay,
        I understand where you are coming from Jay. The heat of the moment isn’t where rational thought usually shines. I just started watching “I almost got away with it” on Netflix and if a guy wasn’t a hardened criminal it was often a crime of passion for a first crime that did him in and changed his life forever.
        To support our common perception of NJ I like to take the Biblical quote about “Can anything good come from Nazareth” and apply it to New Jersey. In Jersey’s case we know the answer.

        To Lily,
        Can you please send me the good girl detector I’d like to find one but am curious what % are they of the 50%+ of divorces 70% or so of which are initiated by women. How is a man to know if one is “good”? The concept of hypergamy means good is very dependent on comparative options and a sound mind to evaluate the options (yikes).


      • MTK, Do you really wanna know, or are you being rhetorical? LOL.

        Either way, no “good girl detector” is ironclad. But, there are signs that can indicate a girl is less likely to be a “cut throat” slut a la Jay’s GF. Slut from slut can vary. Whey not choose the least slutty?

        The chances she is a slut:

        • Is she from a liberal household? Then yes
        • Did her parents allow her to have a BF when she was a teen? Then yes
        • How many previous loves did she have? In the off chance she is honest and it’s over 2 by the time she’s 22, then yes.
        • Does she have tattoos and/or pricings? Then yes
        • Is she a vegan (this affects older chicks more)? Then yes
        • Does she consider the occult spirituality (anything pagan is considered spiritual to these wayward people)? Then yes
        • Does she have a big dog, too big for her to control? Then yes
        • Does she travel a lot, or is involved with the Peace Corps or some other liberal charity group that helps overseas? Then yes
        • Is she a supporter of PITA or the Sierra Club? Then yes
        • Does she volunteer in a soup kitchen? Then yes
        • Does she spew liberal mambo jumbo, especially the stuff she heard from her college professor? Then yes
        • Did she vote for Obama? Then yes
        • Are her parents divorced? Then yes
        • Was she raised by her mom? Then yes
        • She doesn’t have a good relationship with her parents? Then yes

        Haha…..You get the point, don’t you? Find a woman that answers no to ALL of these conditions, and maybe she ain’t a slut. It’s a tough job, but someone got to do it.


      • Lilly if I could fill that checklist and still manage at least 3/4 of a boner for her I’d definitely be in.

        Problem is those would be unicorns how many women do you know that fill those criteria? Even chicks working in IT have had more partners than you list…


      • Hmmm…

        If she will agree to meet you (for sex) without going on an actual date in a public place, or somewhere your or her friends will likely meet you or see you, then she is probably not a good girl.

        Good girls not only do not mind accountability on both sides. They thrive in it. If they will let you get away with low accountability, it may not be that they’re a raging slut, but they are already bordering on damaged. You might be able to work with that, but be on guard for trust issues.

        If she has a problem with people knowing what she’s up to, then run away.

        Also, if we’re talking someone older, or who has been around the block for reasons not entirely in their control (hippie cult brainwashing escapee, sexual abuse survivor) they may lack boundaries or allow themselves to do some things out of desperation without remorse because life has been crappy for them. Someone has to be treated with some dignity to learn how to have any…and to some degree, one must learn shame to have any.

        They won’t have the kind of mindfulness for certain social contracts that others do simply from ignorance and lack of exposure. What you may think is a “friend with benefits” or even “unofficial girlfriend” (you indicated you care about her, but did not make it explicit that you want to be exclusive), the girl might think of as a booty call, and behave accordingly. So what you may think of as a raging slut who cheated on you, may be from her perspective, a booty call you’re being strangely and overly possessive about when she don’t see no rings on her fingers.

        Guys today have to get out of this fear of double standards. You get yourselves into trouble often by not staking a claim. Most cases I’ve seen where a girl wasn’t holding up her end, it’s because the guy wasn’t holding up his.

        Still, there’s a way girls behave when they’re basically good, and a way they behave when they’re not, and that is the good hope even if they don’t expect, that you are good too. They won’t do things that might screw things up, just on the hope that you might be the one. Whether or not it is their fault they’re broken, the broken are broken, and this is just life. She can fix what is broken and do better, or she can stay broken. This isn’t something that requires a high level of independent thought because there are still plenty of churches and even other organizations that support sanity in sexuality.

        So if you don’t know the history, look at the now. If she treats you like she has no hope that you will ever see her as more than a booty call, she doesn’t see herself as worth more than this. You should be mindful of her self assessment.


      • Good God no.

        If you think you owe her a ride home, then the only deviation from Heartsie’s script is to tell her “I’m leaving, get your stuff if you want a ride home.” and then head for the door. If she wants a ride, she’ll follow.

        If she doesn’t, her problem. You don’t have to put up with any screaming or yelling or name calling or pouting. If she doesn’t act like you’re doing her a favor by driving her home, leave her.

        If you really can’t do that, then don’t give the guy the cab fare. Give the money to her if you really need to buy off your conscience. “Here, get yourself a cab” and drop a $20 on the table.


    • this is great too: “Reward good behavior intermittently, punish bad behavior promptly.”

      however, a practical question: what if the distraction isn’t in the room? example is i was at a restaurant with girl, both of us assuming a level of exclusivity, her phone gets a text and she hides the phone. i _know_ she lied about who it was from, had it really been them she’d have shown me and said “see, quit being like that” or something. but she hid the phone, turned it off.

      i ate dinner and pursued it later (to no satisfactory end), but in retrospect, and in keeping with this, would you just stand her up and say “let’s go”? i was her ride and i had a bill to pay so i couldn’t just walk out realistically.


      • saw the answer below, i need to go in prepared and get another portion of testicle.

        drop the cash for the bill on the table, drop her some cash for a taxi, and hit the bricks.


      • What’s with this misplaced chivalry? Bitch has a cell phone. She can call someone for a ride. Leave her ass there with the bill and go pick up a less slutty girl.


      • Gotta agree with the dude here.


      • That’s the answer. You owe her nothing if she’s treating you like that, and leaving her stranded with the bill puts you very much on top. She’s counting on your goodwill to save her an embarrassing mess. Has she earned your good will? No, and she knows it. The only way to regain your self respect (and her respect but who cares, she’s a whore) is to prove she gets nothing from you for free, and you have the balls to treat her like she’s nothing.

        If a girl isn’t afraid to piss you off, she doesn’t love you. It’s not sufficient, but it’s necessary.


      • YES! Please see above for more proper response from a not so by-gone era.. da fuq!!!!! White boys please stop. This is where niggers still know how to roll on us.


      • There is no assume for women.

        You staked a claim or you didn’t.

        If you didn’t then who she gets calls from is not your business. Enjoy the dinner, take the pussy, and be happy she bothers with your weak, afraid to own a chick ass.


    • I’ve only been played like that once, and when it happened I got that sinking feeling in a big way, asked her what was up, and she came back with “I don’t think we should be exclusive” so I walked out after explaining that if the other guy wanted her, he could have her. I didn’t keep her – but she lost interest in the other guy about two days later. On the one hand it’s clear I misread that a little, she was just trying to make me jealous and not really interested in the other guy, or maybe just playing “let’s you and him fight” – an epic shit test. On the other hand, who cares. She was a loose woman and not really worth keeping around, so to hell with her. Bonus points: I started dating an acquaintence of hers, a little HB redhead, within a couple days. Got glares for about two years every time I saw her after that.


    • No – just the second best.
      The best advice that has worked for me dozen times is the
      “disapearing act”
      “the easiest way to regain upper hand”


  2. This works when you actually have an exit available. It’s impossible when you actually work with the girl and she is the the more attractive female in the room compared to the rest. This is why it’s a bad idea to date/screw girls at your job; unless there are other attractive girls in there which you can use to as leverage. No matter what, you are going to get that territorial feeling. It’s worst when she knows it and she uses it as leverage when she is pretty much the main focus of all the guys at work. You can’t win. If you stop talking to her, you become the butthurt controlling guy. If you try to talk to her, you would be doing it with that angry feeling within you…Be careful about dating girls at work.


    • It’s only bad to screw your coworkers if you have feelings for them.
      If you have ice water in your aorta it makes no difference.


      • I gotta admit I’m not up to the “ice water in the aorta” level yet. For the 95% of guys with mortal blood mixed in with testosterone, this is something to consider.


      • Everytime you free yourself from a relationship
        Ten more women are awaiting.
        Dont get too full on zebra.
        You’ll have to hunt tomorrow or you’ll be chewing on bones for a week.


      • Wrong. Avoid female co-workers like the plague. Keep your philandering outside your job where there is no employment cost to getting scorned, ridiculed, or imbroglioed by women.


      • on October 28, 2013 at 4:04 pm Carlos Danger

        It didn’t used to be a problem but became one with feminism and sexual harassment laws. Work used to be one of the main places to meet someone. British women were also once renowned for their beauty back in Julie Andrew’s day. Times sure have changed.


      • Maybe wrong for you.
        I never date coworkers (or anyone) seriously for that matter.
        I have scooped up mail room tail and secretaries.
        Never from my department or from employees below me though as that is the only infringment against company policy.
        Then again if you can’t seperate your emotions from your conquests, do not attempt at home.


      • So, you’re the black guy who works in shipping?


      • Nah. I’m the school janitor.
        The lunch ladies always serve me up something good to eat 😉


      • Yes… anyone not on the loading dock understands 21st century feminism and workplace. There isn’t a cunt in your office even if its 18 years old and an intern who looks like Alessandra Ambrosio worth your career and livelihood. Anyone saying otherwise is either too intellectually dim to comprehend or as you said the nigger on the loading dock with nothing to lose.


      • Janitor Game though, think about it. He’s got that massive ring full of shiny keys which attarct all women and provide entrance to many store-rooms and broom closets where he can rogure the lassies before their spreadsheet presentation to the board, plus they will not dare disclose they are getting plugged by such a low-status male. If he is black then so much the better, as they are merely showing solidarity with a victim of white privilege. We all laff inside at the janitor picking up snot-rags in the bathroom but he is the one living fully in the moment and building his retirement while we mince around Encorpera trying to prove ourselves to colleagues we would rather boil in acid.


      • Plus he is dutiful in emptying out everyone’s waste basket. What plausible reason do you have for approaching that cute co-worker and chatting her up? It’s like he has the keys to the magic kingdom. Doubtless many Millenial gals stay late into the evening making them easy pickings for someone with a sympathetic ear.


      • Elmer nailed it.
        Yolo brah, yolo.
        Bitches be all up on my mop.


    • …or: don’t shit where you eat.


    • “No matter what, you are going to get that territorial feeling.”

      No, YOU are getting that territorial feeling. Because you hafesome messed up internals. That’s why you are here,to unfuck yourself.

      What you just did was run a general statement through your internal filter and came up with a new general statement in the form of advice. But your judgement sucks and really what you are doing is looking for overly emotional support for your damaged soul and frame.

      you can do better.keep reading.


      • I’m not saying you are wrong. But are you saying that the main reason I feel territorial towards a girl is because I have messed up internals?


      • your comment seems to convey truths, that while they may seem immutable to you, are not really the experience that CH and others are teaching you.

        so when I hear stuff like that then I necessarily and correctly (as much as you can on the internet) assume that you have deficiencies that you are working on.

        practically, you are suffering oneitus and not true paternal guarding. i know this because if it WAS real biological behaivior then you would be saying things like “I shall be murdering him promptly” and mean it.

        the real deal (watching an Alpha get biologically jealous) is scary as fuck to anybody with a functioning amygdala,. it ain’t oneitus.


      • Let me ask you this. If you read the first paragraph from CH’s post, where do these reactions stem from? Do they stem from having oneitis? Or do they stem from a biological mate-guarding/territorial source?


      • the thing about hanging out here is that the conversation and advice is coming from an alpha down to a beta in the hope of growing more alphas. (i take umbrage with more competition but it is the ultimate magnanimity for these guys to be teaching this, you should send all your money to them)

        its always helpful to understand that the sphere and the majority of its advice is engineered for the beta boi. CH, Rollo, Ya, Krauser….they don’t feel like you at all. but they CAN tell you how not unfuck yourself by relating to you. stop internalizing and processing thru your personal filter. some things don’t need explained, just accepted.


      • *to unfuck yourself


      • @Tilikum

        Well said. I like this new tone you’re using.


  3. Being able to weather that feeling is the concrete difference between a Navy Seal and a regular old officer. That’s what they talk about when they have all that training and try to “break you down.”

    Sounds stupid, but I always think about that when that feeling comes roaring through my loins. When she is flirting with other men…when she is openly challenging my value in front of other men. “This is what seperates the men from the boys. Embrace the feeling. She is challenging your manhood. Are you going to let this whore her beat you?!?! You better not melt or welt under this pressure.”

    I don’t think leaving is a great strategy. It looks weak. You need to find a calm way out and then put forward the ghost strategy.


    • If done correctly it doesn’t look weak at all. Smile at her and calmly walk like you would walk from a failed sale or business transaction.


    • I thinking just walking away without comment looks weak- like you’re running or slinking away. Better to unload a line to let her know why you bail: “You know, you seem more interested in other people than me right now. Maybe I’ll see you later.” Without something like that I agree this would be a bad move. As always, though, it depends on context- specifically, here, how much time/commitment you hacve invested. If it’s a first date? Nothing lost, nothing gained. A 2-year LTR? Perhaps worth a poitned conversation on WTF is going on. A wife? God help you.


      • You shouldn’t have a girlfriend for two years or a wife in the first place,
        But if you must then I would take Mr. Heywoulds advice from above and go grab the guy and introduce them. Social pressure is like fire to the bitchbeast.


      • this statement is a PERFECT example of why beta’s and women shouldn’t be listened to re: relationship advice


      • The best relationship advice is to not get into one.
        If she feels the need to be exclusive towards you, good for her.


      • @Tilikum. Yes, too much relationship advice seems to be based around “logic” rather than game techniques and strategies and ev psych.

        The jby, the “tell her how you feel” etc etc don’t work.

        Blowing up doesn’t work.

        Calling her out doesn’t work.

        Leaving and preserving you dignity flips the script. Suddenly if she actually gives a shit, she’ll ask and freak out “Where were you?!!”

        If she doesn’t…well, you have your answer.


      • Some years ago I’d have thought exactly like you but nowadays I’m all in for leaving without a word. Why? Cause I think we tend to try to explain ourselves too much when in fact, you know what is going on, and she knows what is going on (most likely cause she caused it) so the thing is when you leave she already realizes that you know what she is doing


      • I already fucked you up once over ‘Bamacare in spite of us being DC brothas… but you posted some salient shit since then so I forgive you. This, however, is not an example.

        I’ve been in this exact situation before… your best bet is anything you can do to inconvenience the fuck out of her. 1) “Baby, I know you are distracted but I’m out of cash, let me grab your CC so we can keep running this tab”– women this whorish are often this stupid. Do NOT leave the bar. Take the card, she will be looking at swingin dick and you will charge US$200 or more in drinks for any busted whore under 25 who wants free drinks… True Story Bro. 2) LTR– she will be even more trusting of you and your utterly beta-herbitude. Sooooo, leave. No ride home and car gone. Cellphone–> dead. Doors—> locked. She’ll arrive at some point. Usually the same night, sometimes the next morning. Hysterical as all women w/o a handler must become. “I felt you were so into the moment, and I didn’t want to disturb that moment at all, I just want to support you!”

        3) Wife— you marry a woman who has ANY inclination for such disgusting behavior and you get what you ordered. No advice, no sympathy. Just jerk it in your own home whilst she cuckolds you nightly…


      • on October 28, 2013 at 10:52 pm Hugh G. Rection

        Better to err on the side of silence than to risk sounding hurt.


    • I think boot camp might be a little harder for them, also.


    • thats because you have no experience converting a loss to a win.


    • If you think leaving looks weak, then you have the wrong frame of mind.

      Leaving is only weak if you are trying to qualify yourself to her. If she has to qualify herself to you, then leaving is not weak, it’s merely announcing that time’s up and she didn’t make the cut.


      • Jack Amocks comment times eleventy bujillion.
        You gotta be ready to walk at anytime and be ok with it, otherwise you’ll have to admit you need her more than you’re putting on, and you’re not fooling anyone, least of all her.


  4. Props to CH for so accurately capturing the physiological manifestation of that feeling. It’s an awful one, and, ironically, one that men with game will experience more often than others simply because they will date more women and thus run into scenarios like this more often.

    Having another regular girl really helps you combat this and maintain your state control. Theoretically, a man with the skillset could acquire another girl once something like this has gone down, but in practice this sort of situation can salt your game if you can’t shake yourself out of the negative head space.


  5. Don’t even tell her you’re going. SImply walk out. This is the best… BY FAR the best… method for maintaining your aloof indifference in the face of reproductive annihilation.

    Excellent advice. She hasn’t reasoned her way into being attracted to the other guy, so you’re not going to reason her out of it.


    • “She hasn’t reasoned her way into being attracted to the other guy, so you’re not going to reason her out of it.”

      Somebody bring this bastard a cigar. A fine cuban.


    • Logistically, it’s the reason why you should always carry cash to a date. Sitting and waiting for the waitress to run your card is weak-sauce, throwing down a twenty and turning heel is the way to go.


      • WHERE are you eating that your meal is twenty?!
        Hoe is lucky to get a happy meal.


      • Bring da movies!


      • on October 28, 2013 at 4:40 pm ain't nuttin but a gansta partayyy


      • on October 28, 2013 at 4:42 pm ain't nuttin but a gansta partayyy

        congrats if you can make it through the whole video lzozlzozlzol fuck


      • Seriously brah.

        I see lots of pissing and moaning in these comments about what to do to keep some slut with a wandering eyes.
        Starting to think I’m alone in believing that women are interchangeable…

        If the current flavor of the month does anything you consider over the line, just walk.
        Explanations and debates are mental masturbation and a waste of energy.
        The shock of slutty hypergamous behavior should wear off within about 10 belt notches I would estimate.
        For every dumb bitch some overly protective alpha wanna be fights over,
        There’s a hundred hotter hoebags within a few square miles of him waiting to be gamed.


      • Chilis $20 dinner for 2?


      • Pshhhhh….

        Ramen noodle cups 50 cents
        Crystal light off brand packs 15 cents
        Neighbors yard hose water free

        Making her sleep in the wet spot…


  6. I need some advice!

    So me and this chick (a solid 8, perhaps a 9 on a really good day) split after about 3 months. She confessed that she still had strong feelings for her ex (surprise surprise, he was an asshole and broke up with her one day with little reason and harassed her via text a lot), and after an argument in which she said some pretty insulting things,, she said she didn’t want a BF anymore. So, I told her if thats what she wanted, good luck, and I was out. We stayed friends on FB, and one day I posted a status that conveyed that I was in a good mood because I really was, and out of nowhere she texts me “Wow, looks like you’re doing fine without me, I’m moving on”. Which is weird because normally when you say you don’t want a bf that generally means you already moved one…sooo…

    I didn’t talk to her for a week, and out of the blue she texts me “hey”. I probably should have ignored her, but I texted her back in a aloof, civil way. I told her about all the good things going on in my life and whatnot to show her that I am doing fine without her. The whole short convo she only responded with either one word answers or very unemotional responses.

    So, she is obviously still thinking about me if she texts me after all that bullshit drama. Now, what I am confused about is why she is acting all boring and bland with her texts? Is she trying to get me to give her attention and drama or does she want me to fight for her back even though she said she still loves her ex?

    I have a suspicion she is just a drama queen.


    • If you want to fuck her again, try escalating to a meet when she texts you. If she balks, then you know she was just going for an attention fix, and you can next her comfortably with full knowledge of her motive.


    • Now, what I am confused about is why she is acting all boring and bland with her texts? Is she trying to get me to give her attention and drama or does she want me to fight for her back even though she said she still loves her ex?

      It’s the alpha male who’s supposed to be “boring and bland” with the texts — or, rather, give single-word answers, since women don’t find it “boring and bland” when the guy does it. At the moment, you’re still the beta to her alpha. You need to up the aloofness further.


      • @corvinus. Yes. Girls try for plausible deniability. She’s got one foot in and one foot out. She wants YOU to chase. I’ve seen this before and fallen for it.

        Years before understanding game I got dumped badly. My first instinct was to plead my case to get back together.

        A few months later I get a corporate Christmas card from her (pre-facebook days) apologizing for being mean to me…I take the bait, mistake this for genuine interest, start chasing again.

        She cools. I back off….she warms…I cool. It all ends horribly with me uber beta.

        Now, same thing happening, I’m ignoring (see my post below) Girl who completely disrespected me and tried to piss me off gets….NOTHING…from me, no reaction, completely proceed as normal but ignore…like she is someone I don’t know or is invisible or doesn’t matter.

        I have also tried this strategy and it has a huge impact. Girls HATE HATE HATE being ignored as long as you do it with a look of disdain and indifference not eyes down looking butt-hurt. They interpret the silence using their imagination….”Are you mad?” nothing…”I’m sorry I hurt you…” nothing….”Why aren’t you talking to me?” Nothing. Then when you feel like it reach out in some flaccid way: “Am going to be at xxx tonight…”


    • “We stayed friends on FB”



    • on October 28, 2013 at 12:58 pm Cad and Bounder

      Most likely with you, she is playing out the battles that she can’t get over losing with her ex. Classic alpha widow stuff. She messaged you because she wants some validation from you chasing her.

      Most importantly, do not listen to a word that they say about what they do or do not want in relationships. They don’t believe a word of it, and nor should you. Ignore what she says, watch what she does. She’s into her ex. He was an asshole. You should be the greater asshole.

      If this strategy appears demeaning to you (it may not feel that way to other guys though) then think what it says about the quality of the girl, and what you are getting out of it? Does it really make you happy to be constantly gaming some bint that is thinking about another guy? Think about what you want first.

      You were with her 3 months, so frankly, you KNOW she is a drama queen. She doesn’t want you to fight her back, and you thinking like that is just making excuses for her. Try to fuck her if you want (sad clown gave you decent advice) but otherwise just walk away.


    • Ray_Gun — Okay first thing. Any girl who dumps you for her ex, no matter how beta you may be, is not long term relationship material. It is irrelevant whether she wants you to fight for her back, because you should not. Such a misplaced sense of loyalty will forever seek to betatize you. Understand that a girl who dumps you for an ex and then tries to come back is a girl who tried to get something better than you and then settled.

      Anyway, staying friends on FB is not gay. After the breakup, any sort of overt distancing will come off as butthurt, and simultaneously seek to reinforce her importance in your life. You should be able to walk away from your losses unhurt, or atleast appear to be. That also ties up with this post btw,

      When she says “wow….etc Im moving on:, she’s actually questioning her decision to dump you. Any woman who dumps you will hate hate hate it if you are happy or easily moving on or doing well in life. She wants to see you destroyed, or atleast hurt, to be able to be happy with her decision to dump you. The absolute worst thing a girl wants is to be with a guy who pales in comparison to her ex.

      She wanted to get with you, or atleast try to find out why you were doing well. The best way to respond to such texts is to ignore them or reply something irreverent after 2-3 days. Anyway, you did (kinda,sorta) well by being being aloof, but there was no way you shouldve responded to her questions about your a direct manner. She was directing the flow of information and you were giving her what she wanted to know. Maintain the goddamn mystery. Just as betas are profligate with their money and emotions, you were (again, relatively kinda sorta) profligate with the details of your life, even if you exaggerated them. Dont.

      One last time, any time a girl complains about asshole things an ex did, listen extra carefully (while acting like you aren’t), go home and jot down all of those asshole things. When shit hits the fan or you act excessively beta or the relationship flags down or her eye starts wandering, deploy some of these asshole tendencies.

      I suggest you just cut away all contact with this chick, and improve a bit on your game. Or you could try to get her to be an FB — being an appropriate asshole should do this pretty easily. —-but you risk catching feelings for her again.

      Good luck


      • This is good stuff.

        In the beginning she was waaaayyyy clingy. A month in she was talking about moving in with me, she was buying me b-day presents months ahead of my b-day, and saying other future-orientated things. So I was like, fuck, this chick is a stage 5 clinger. She would text me nudes every few days or so as well after just a week in from dating.

        I don’t think her feelings for her ex was the main reason for her breaking up with me though, I am normally an “alpha” (lesser alpha I suppose as much as an average guy can get, I’m no master at game but I usually land nothing below a 7 for gfs or fucks) but I definitely shared my feelings with her too early. it was a giant beta mistake and I have no one to blame but myself, and I can only learn from it and not make the mistake again. So even though she was really clingy I noticed her interest slowly go away after a bit, even though a week up to the break up she was STILL talking about moving in and would send me nudes with the caption “Make it so you wake up to this every morning” etc etc etc. She did admit to me that we both did things that took it too fast, but really, 99% of it was her. I’m not trying to defend myself here, it is just the truth, even though sharing my feelings with her is a giant, giant mistake.


      • …but I definitely shared my feelings with her too early. it was a giant beta mistake and I have no one to blame but myself, and I can only learn from it and not make the mistake again.

        Been there done that bro. It was a hard lesson to learn for me — the more I like one the more likely I am to motormouth, but it’s indeed a bad mistake. Hang in there guy.


  7. NOTHING beats the look on a woman’s face when you pull this move. If she’s attractive and high-value, you just pulled the rug from under her. She expected you to sit there and simp like every guy, then drive her home, and now she just got tossed into the frozen wasteland.

    What a goddamn good feeling.


  8. Leave and dont come back. Her willingness to flirt in front of you is not tolerable. Period. There are other girls out there that do know how to show some respect and its not worth the hassle of spending time with a woman who is not mature enough to do so. Some shit tests are ok to answer but this is a ‘fail test’…she failed.


  9. nope – leave is the way to go. And if she don’t follow, go dark. No text, phone, face to face, nothing. Move on.

    And when she shows up your place throwing Booby-Snacks ask if she brought a condom cuz I don’t do sluts without em.


  10. A little over 3 years ago, I was just staring to learn about game, and rebounding after the end of 5 year relationship. Long story short, I ended up on a date with a 23 year old.

    We exchanged some ( safe/boring beta) small talk, ordered drinks, then she pulls out her phone and delves into her social media whore-a-thon. Two minutes I sat there staring at her and glancing around the room. Another minute passed, I got up and left without excusing myself. Drove home.

    I’d been gone about 15 minutes when she sent the first text.

    “U still in the bathroom? ”

    3 minutes later

    ” The ice n ur drink is melting. ”

    4 more minutes

    ” srsly WTF ??? ”

    10 minutes after that.

    ” ur car is gone , not funny !! ”

    ” I need a ride , u coming back ? ”

    Finally I responded

    ” maybe ur phone can buy u dinner and give u a ride home . ”

    Needless to say I didn’t get the lay, but the point is, I’ve always known when to walk away.

    Kinda reminds me of that old Kenny Rogers song.


    • Finally I responded

      ” maybe ur phone can buy u dinner and give u a ride home . ”

      Sounds butthurt. Complete radio silence until she apologizes would have been better.


      • Not sure I agree. Not like he was whining or anything. Problem with radio silence is she might be clueless enough not to know what she did wrong. Granted you can argue that isn’t his problem to fix, but who knows, might get her to treat the next guy with more respect.


      • Right. My young generation is totally clueless. They need the wake-up call and they need to be babied through why you’re “being such a jerk” to them.

        Otherwise they’ll never learn…


      • Problem with radio silence is she might be clueless enough not to know what she did wrong.

        Oh, she’d know full well what she did wrong. And if she didn’t, do you really want to get involved with a chick who is married to her iPhone?


      • This. There is no reason other than the smug fueled egogasm bliss circuitry reward for a guy to be explaining his reason for leaving, like a woman who just has no other recorse but “to tell you how it is” if you upset her fragile world view in some way. You decide if her actions are over the line. If they aren’t, don’t say anything. If they are, walk.

        Apart from the fun of pissing women off, there is no more valid reason to argue with a woman than to argue with a cat.


      • “Problem with radio silence is she might be clueless enough not to know what she did wrong.”

        This. Part of a Soft Next is that she has to know what line she crossed. You don’t just punish your kid randomly, you let him know why he’s being punished so he knows how to avoid the punishment in the future…otherwise it’s just random and crazy and fixes nothing. The goal is training her behavior, not passive-aggressively punishing her for shit she doesn’t realize is wrong.

        This was handled awesomely. I lol’ed at her txts. And the “maybe your phone” txt lets her know the reason for the punishment.

        The only thing I would change would be warning her up front first about the phone. Like as she’s doing it, say “it’s rude to txt while you’re at dinner, were you raised by wolves?” Then if she continues, you execute exactly as done here. By warning her of the line in advance, she knows that she’s crossing the line when she does it so she can’t play the “you’re overreacting, I didn’t know you’d get so butt-hurt god” card because you established your rule and are now simply enforcing it.

        Often they’ll whine about it but you keep the Soft Next going and ignore her until she turns her behavior around and apologizes and in the end she’ll respect you for having rules/standards and not being afraid to lay down authority like her father would. That tells her that if you can handle HER bullshit, which 99% of guys would let her get away with, you will be a rock solid oak tree against the world she could rely on if you were in a relationship together.

        Of course the rub is that by the time she quits spazzing and calms down and apologizes, she may have demonstrated enough shitty behavior that you don’t WANT her back lol


      • “Part of a Soft Next is that she has to know what line she crossed. You don’t just punish your kid randomly, you let him know why he’s being punished so he knows how to avoid the punishment in the future…otherwise it’s just random and crazy and fixes nothing.”

        ^Exactly. Another analogy would be an employer who explains his decision to fire (or his threat to do so) an employee. None of us would say he’s any less alpha for explaining his decision, but for some reason, when it comes to dating, everyone here says that an explanation is beta. Sure, the employee or girl you’re dating might think you sound weak or “butthurt”, but who cares what they think? All that matters to a true alpha, is that his rules and the consequences of breaking them are understood. People’s subjective criticism of his rules be damned


      • >warning her up front first

        I disagree…. just leave and she will be very careful next time…no to cross the line..

        >she might be clueless enough not to know what she did wrong.

        Instead of the line of her phone can buy her dinner etc.. you can just make a joke… something like “Oh… I’d thought it would be better to continue by phone as you seem to be more into that!!”


      • ” Sounds butthurt.”

        It does, and I know that now, but as A R G points out, it was the only way I could let her know why I left. The take away for me was; Don’t be a boring date. Which I was at the time. Thankfully nothing like that has happened since. But if it did , I would straight up call her on it.

        ” ‘Scuse me , are we on a date or would like to be left alone with your phone ? “


      • Why do you feel the need to explain your decision to her?


      • Teachable moment.


      • ?


      • His point was never to fuck her, but to teach her a lesson. He made it easier for the next guy, you should be thankful instead of being dicks.


  11. ha, i had the same deal happen last night. sorta.

    my bish has been with me for 1 1/2 years yada yada, she’s a 9 with no tits – she once confessed to me and my buddy, way early on that she had a fantasy to be plowed by a black guy. this came about after my buddy saying he doesn’t take pussy that’s been porked by black guys.

    this was over a year back – i from then on hate fucked her for months while actively looking for other snatch. she grew on me, as she did everything she was told/became even more submissive as a i turned up the masculine full bore.

    but the black comment has never left my mind. i’m a stubborn fuck, and as I heard what she said, it was around the time I was trying to fully embrace the red pill.

    flash forward to now, and blah blah we’re driving in her car last night, she has one of her old rap cd’s – i immediately switch it to some shoddy fm rock. she goes out to grab some advil – i turn her cd back on to see what she’s listening to. pure gansta rap to the tits – filthy poser white trash skankaholic slut tunes.

    she gets back in the car, i ask her wtf kinda shit is on your cd – she mentions ya its an oldie~!! back when i luvved rap. i tell her basically its a turn off for me, and then ask her why she listens to it – i mean really why. she gives me the same shallow skimmed shit of what i’ve read here about white sluts listening to gansta rap. ‘the beats, the attitude, working out to it is good etc’.

    we’re nearing my lot when i basically call bishes who listen to this shit skanky sloots etc. she pulls the dont judge me card yada yada. moral or this story:


    ..ya, but now i’m stuck with a bitch who worships the ground i walk on, all the while i have this insecurity that one day..somewhere along the way..this slut will take me up on that


    • i know how you’re feeling, and i wish i had a solid piece of advice, but i just wanted to say i enjoyed reading it. sounds like the kind of shit i’d put myself through.


    • “…she once confessed to me and my buddy, way early on that she had a fantasy to be plowed by a black guy.”

      Game Over


    • Daddy issues?


    • See Satoshi Kanazawas study. Men of all races find Black women least desirable. Flip side. Women of all races find Black men most desirable. Black guy fantasies describes about 85% White women min Id guess. Rap is White girl celebration of said fantasies.

      Solution is to develop as Alpha as you can and recognize there is always another guy … be very wary of comitting.


      • Whiskey– I’m seriously tired of your bullshit here, at SBPDL, at Taki’s at fucking anywhere. Pro Tip— SUCK OFF some black cock and indulge your ultimate YHW (sorry CH!) fantasy. I’m tired of hearing your bullshit meme.

        White girls who still have DADDYS don’t proscribe to your YHW hatched agenda of negro-worship. Period. Yes, they are a minority because well, umm…. MEDIA. But don’t pretend it doesn’t exist while you shamelessly promote it you Yid Cunt.


    • i think you are good. the white girl/black guy thing is a maladaption to pussy ass white boys, nothing more.

      she is looking for the strength not the bbc. keep giving her the strength, she’ll stay off the Mississippi black snake.


      • Yup. The particular form a fantasy takes (“black men”) is arbitrary. The underlying psychological need it fulfills (alpha cum) is what’s important.

        If you can fulfill the underlying need, then who cares what dumb socially conditioned alpha simulacra flit through your chick’s head?


      • Tilikum
        she is looking for the strength not the bbc. keep giving her the strength, she’ll stay off the Mississippi black snake.

        Actually, sometimes she is looking for the BBC; but knows she can flip it into “white girl game” where they use black guys as “filters” to short circut their way to the white alpha males.

        Something happened one day and I thought I was going to get shot; the white girl set me up to get caught.

        *that was a sinking feeling*

        I snuck out while they argued which was the whole point of the exercise.



      • says the guy with the BBC… ;P


      • Nope.

        I have a few theories about what is really going on subconciously, but if I go Freudian it will bring out too much joohate.

        But I will say this. For most of the guys here, if you are ever going to get shot; a woman is going to have something to do with it.

        It matters not how white you are.

        *be advised*


      • Truth. Your chances of random wanton shooting unless you are living in the various hoods of these United States are still statistically insignificant, for now. Although ni66ers know they can ramp up their game now on Whitey, based on recent events. This will continue for a time under the Cathedral and then I think it will cease abruptly and with dire consequence. Poor bastards like thwack who is a IKAGO of the highest order may potentially be mowed down in the blowback that I think is coming sooner, rather than later.


    • on October 28, 2013 at 2:17 pm ProudFeministGirl

      I do not find Black men most desirable, i am not attracted to their features nor to their hair texture and usual hair styles, White male beauty for the win ; ) . Blacks : good body and good personalities, but Whites: good body, good personalities and good faces, i choose White.


    • There are simple solutions here. One, when you do her, say who’s your __________ now? I’m that __________. etc. She’ll get it. And tell people in mixed company you’re “high yella.” and things like that. Indeed, saying I’m that N_______ to black people confidently and humorously is very ballsy and has high return . . . .for me at least. It’s vulgar, it’s silly, it takes balls.


      • ok, this is all good.

        right – basically what i concluded a while back as i was dealing with this is – white sluts listening to rap have a beta father (she has one) and have minimal to zero (white) dominate males in their lives. and with the media now having a bbc mainstream fetish, it’s now imperative to BE DOMINANT OR DIE.

        pretty much what Tilikum described, i felt it, applied it, and is now a natural way of being in this relationship.

        the girls who like country music usually have an asshole alpha/greater beta grown out of the harvest to keep them in line. urban bishes, nope – unless it’s a wigger alpha.

        i actually did confess to her once – about what she said that day. it was in the spring, i was beyond indifferent to shit, and yet she was totally head over heels for me. eventually she broke down crying saying why are you being this way blah blah..

        so i said fuck it and said it ‘lowered your value’ telling me that so easily, and i’m white, proud as fuck to be white, i’m the dominant race slut, you’re getting slayed by a white guy – fucking love it or leave it etc.

        she wants me to marry her etc, so it’s one of those relationships..


      • Because I like fried chicken.


      • The neck bone?


    • My girl used to occasionally mention her attraction for light skinned black guys, until recently when I discovered an effective counter move. One day her and her sister were going on about black guys, I keep my cool as always and say “I have the same attraction to Asian women, they are so exotic and sexy to me, so weird right?” Now I’ll even check out Asians now and then just for good measure ( even though I don’t really care for Asians) and living in Hawaii there are plenty of Asians around. Since that time she hasn’t said a word about black men.


      • had a nice reply lined up, then wordpress had to be a cunt and delete it.

        anyhow, ok, got it. everything you people have put i agree with. figured i was going to be flamed as phuk for ‘putting up’ with this ‘unique relationship’.

        this is how i’ve sized everything up, and pretty much what Tilikum put: BE DOMINANT OR DIE. never has this been more important to your relationship in these times than those 4 words.

        liberals/mainstream media has a bbc fetish, and consequently your white urban slut has the same.

        so, you take a look at the country girls and their love for country music. now generally the girl who likes country has a greater beta/asshole alpha grown on the harvest bf, who keeps the bitch in line. thus breeds happy days.

        head over to the urban bitches, and these sluts are butt fucked with loads of hip hop/rap since 7th grade. the only alphas around for them are usually the wigger bad boys. black on white.

        I’m only 5’8, but 210lbs of muscle, so i get respect that way. i HAVE to be a hard ass for respect – the shorter you are, the more you have to standout in whichever way.

        In a way, it’s better to know your enemy than being oblivious to it. i consider what she said that day a kind of blessing.

        a) it opened my eyes even wider to the world of red pill
        b) made me become a ridiculously dominant ‘alpha’ that has zero filters on what i say
        c) keeps me on my game. DOMINANCE or DIE.

        lastly, i have mentioned to her about what she said that day – it was this past spring, i was being super indifferent with her, where she was begging for attention. she finally had it, started sobbing asking why aren’t i the same, why don’t you care about us etc.

        i finally said fuck it and went with it – i told her, her comments about wanting to be plowed by a black guy lowered her value grossly, and i can’t seem to shake it. it was at the moment where i went into this diatribe where I’m white, i’m proud as fuck to be white, i’m the dominant race bitch, you’re getting slayed by me, a mother fucking white man, you fucking love it or leave it slut. (this is after swearing to myself i’d never let her know how much that fucked with my psyche.)

        by the way, with your comment Jay – i did use those logistics when she made her comment – i said i have a thing for Italian girls blah blah. lol she was totally unfazed back then, like ‘good, good for you, i’m glad, ok then!’ whereas today she’d freak out.



      • i’ve responded twice here and it didn’t post. fuck wordpress.

        quick points here:

        her father is beta, i agree with all comments especially Tilikum’s. this was my gut feeling, so I amped the dominance up full retard mode and it worked.

        i had a whole thing done up on these four words, but fuck it you’re smart enough to figure it out: especially if you’re white: BE DOMINANT OR DIE.

        i’m 5’8 but 210lbs or muscle. i still have to BE DOMINANT OR DIE. because i’m short, and white. blame the liberals and mass media for their bbc fetish on north america right now, but until the tables have turned in the white mans favour, i will continue to BE DOMINATE OR DIE. i’m canadian as well, so it’s even more important lol.

        i also wrote up a big thing on why hot country girls don’t have a black fetish. why? because they’re not butt fucked by rap since 7th grade, AND they usually have a white greater beta/lesser alpha homegrown from the harvest bf who keeps the bitch in line.

        urban girls? the go for the wiggers. why? white on black.

        fuck wordpress, my girls here to cook me supper, thanks for the comments


      • You can now get high quality condoms in almost any color you want. There is no better condom than a Kimono They are so thin you want to stop to make sure its on.

        retail price is about 3 bucks a pop; they are well worth it.


      • thanks washington, do you work at the same 7/11 I go to too?


      • Hate all you want player but they work; especially around Halloween


  12. I’ve never met a guy who didn’t get jealous really easily. I mean, really easily compared to me at least. I’m no expert on keeping chicks, but I am attracted to a guy when he is in jealous rage mode. Not that I ever deliberately try to make a guy jealous. There is no need. Even if you actively try not to make a guy jealous, he’ll still probably get jealous to the point of being enraged now and then. I kind of think it doesn’t even matter what the guy does as long as his jealous reaction is a reaction of jealous rage rather than jealous complaining. It’s that whining guy who wants to have a conversation about how you’ve hurt his feelings that’s unattractive.


    • “Not that I ever deliberately try to make a guy jealous. There is no need.”

      i tend towards not getting jealous at all, so i have repeatedly had girls try, just to f with me. and they are sincerely disappointed when i don’t get angry or upset. and _that_ is what then upsets me, that they want me to be upset. INFURIATING

      [CH: white hot jealousy is stronger in men because the threat they have to guard against — sexual betrayal — is much more immediate and tangible than the threat that women have to guard against, namely, resource redistribution following from lovelessness.]


      • “i tend towards not getting jealous at all,”

        Dude, that’s just weird. Have you ever loved a girl? Almost loved a girl?

        My experience is that guys are so jealous that its kind of ridiculous. Once I went on 2 dates with a guy, and I really liked him. I told him so, but he dumped me. He didn’t even make any attempt to get it. He flat out dumped me and said he had no interest in a relationship. I liked him so much that I asked if we could remain friends and we did. A few months later I was IMing him about some new guy I went out on a date with and liked, and the dude got totally jealous. He was all “so what if he did X, I can do X so much better!” He was angry for days. Ridiculous, yes, but I can’t say that it was all that abnormal.

        [CH: clinical psychpaths rarely feel jealousy. which is one reason why they score so much snatch.]


      • When I was younger, I would get jealous. Then I realized that it’s a pointless emotion, and just makes you vulnerable. Since then I just quit caring about it. If a woman’s going to make me jealous, it’s for two reasons: a) it’s a shit test/game or b) she’s looking for an alternative. Either way, I leave, regardless of my feelings for her. (I should point out that I always make my rules plain to a woman when I begin the relationship: no games, no drama, or I walk. My first two wives didn’t follow the rules, so I walked. Wife #3 has never played any games with me, and it’s been 18 years.)


      • Like Femx I don’t understand the bragging about never feeling jealous. If you care about someone and are genuinely threatened with their loss, you’ll feel jealousy. How can you escape it? Just because you can control what you do with jealousy doesn’t mean you won’t experience it.

        And if you really don’t give a damn, then why be in a relationship at all?


      • Jealousy is completely illogical, because if the woman is wandering, she’s to capricious for any investment of time and effort, or you have already done something to explode her interest, and it’s just future investment trying to salvage sunk cost.

        The best deal guy I ever encountered was infamous for how he handled the bluffs and threats of an acquisition discussion. What is conventional is to argue and refute the “I can get another better deal” bluster, and slowly, through iteration, converge on agreement. Not with M*****.

        M**** would just look at the counterparty, say nothing, pick up his papers and case, and walk out. Panic (by the sellers) usually ensued. If they corralled him before he got out of the conference room, he would shrug and say, “Well, we have nothing to talk about then. Do the other deal.” He closed a lot of deals.


      • Why would a guy with options fell threatened by the loss of one woman?
        What does she have that cannot be replaced by younger and tighter?


      • So essentially, all women are fungible? BV, you surprise me.


      • Amy, far from fungible, I consider sexual disloyalty profoundly threatening and unethical (if occurring in a self-defined, monogamous LTR).

        The behavior in the case above is fairly light-hearted, but I look at this through different eyes, with different experiences. I think immediate and complete rejection of the hypergamous, wandering behavior is required. Tolerating it does not make it go away; it encourages it. So it’s throwing good value after bad, and enhances the likelihood of failure, not success.

        So my deal on this subject is zero tolerance and separation from any behavior that, in my view, constitutes a breach of trust.

        Consequently, I think *you* are labeling the man here as fungible, and I am just applying a Pottery Barn rule to a wandering woman’s behavior: you break trust with me, you own it. I don’t own it. I don’t fix it. I don’t buy it. It’s therefore illogical for me to invest further in you, because I value trust and I deliver loyalty. I guess I’m surprised that you would find any other behavior by a man self-respecting or intelligent.

        Again, I’m looking at this way beyond the PUA frame and looking at partner deceit and hypergamy. I have never, on any date or in any social situation, had a girl do the wandering eyes thing or start flirting with other men or something. It just doesn’t happen to me.

        I get a lot of jealousy game from the women I date these days (can’t remember if I relayed that to you last summer her; one of the women here was decoding it for me), and now I just amplify that stuff to 100dB, and laugh when they get mad I am not affected.

        I also find that women who start online dating can’t shut it off, even if they say they are, or want to go, exclusive. I have abruptly terminated two putatively exclusive relationships — abruptly — in the last two years because of this behavior.

        If even serial dating is too much obligation for a woman, I’m not investing another minute. I know exactly where things eventuate with sexual disloyalty, and would advise any man to walk out, cut the cord, delete the info, and kick the woman knickers and knick-knacks into the street, if she wanders. There’s probably a 50% chance, if he is ruthless enough and calm enough and quick enough, that she comes back on her knees. (Not that “I’ll never do that again because I love you” is a very compelling piece of logic, to me.) There’s no chance of the relationship lasting if he tolerates, equivocates, or whines to her, without penalty. That’s just enabling. Zero tolerance here for sexual deceit or sexual hypergamy.


      • I think we’re talking about two different things. Cheating is always wrong. Hypergamous behavior on dates and early in a relationship isn’t tolerable, and I’d expect any self-respecting man to react swiftly and cleanly and cut her off. There’s little if any emotional investment at this point, so jealousy really isn’t an issue.

        I’m talking about jealousy in longer term relationships, after you’ve made some emotional investment. Maybe things haven’t been going great and you know she works with men who are interested in her, and she’s been working a lot. You won’t experience jealousy? Yes, if she’s cheating she’s a terrible person. Yes, if she’s working late to try to make you jealous she’s a terrible person. But maybe she’s legitimately working late and you just don’t like the idea of her with this guy all the time. She’s not doing anything wrong, but you’ll still feel a little jealous. Maybe it isn’t logical, but I think that’s a normal response from anyone who values what they have and wants to keep it. If you don’t have that protective response to the threat of losing her, how much can she really mean to you?


      • Amy, well, I have never been the slightest bit jealous when in a relationship. I consider misbehavior unequivocally out of bounds, so I regard potential, jealousy-inducing situations to be akin to trusting a mate with my money. I don’t snoop around checking credit card statements and checkbooks, either.

        At home or in business, I just make eminently clear that misbehavior will not be explained away, and I’ve had no occasions to regret that in business, and only one inside a serious relationship. Put another way, any hypergamous impulse is something I demand a woman manage, if she wishes to be with me. Just as I regard the lures of the flesh, and they are constant, to be something I need to manage without supervision if I choose to go exclusive.


      • kim explains most of it, i am older and it sucks to feel that way, so i don’t. a lot of it is a mental exercise, because i hate not being in control of myself. long story.

        i do know what it is and how it feels, i have spent summers being jealous, my stomach aching constantly, and rightly so. the body knows it should be jealous, because your girl is indeed straying to whatever degree. so your point is closer than i would probably want to admit to myself– i avoid jealousy now by avoiding allowing women close, and remembering at all times that there are thousands of even the one-in-a-million-girls out there.

        sadly enough, forcing myself not to get upset leads to more women, which leads to more more disillusionment with women, which then leads to even more lack of uncontrolled emotion (and more women).


      • beta guys are jealous in the first week to about 6 months or so and that turns into pathetic pedestalization and worship. your alpha (after some investment on his part) will start to exhibit attachment behaviors around 6-10months in, imo. It’s a good test for you lucky what, 5% of women that score an Alpha. Just be careful because shit will get real quickly so don’t force the test. just watch.


      • “CH: clinical psychpaths rarely feel jealousy. which is one reason why they score so much snatch.”

        Heh, a few months ago one of my current fbs tells me she’s going on a date with a doctor, probably to try to make me jealous. I responded that that was good because he could then hire a maid to help her clean her room.

        She’s still my fb, and there’s no doctor. I don’t know if I’m an actual psychopath, but I do score around 80% on those online psychopath tests


      • lol. thats game baby.


      • “[CH: clinical psychpaths rarely feel jealousy. which is one reason why they score so much snatch.]”

        That’s good to know. It had not occurred to me before. If I ever date a guy who never gets jealous, I’ll be on the lookout.


        “Why would a guy with options fell threatened by the loss of one woman?
        What does she have that cannot be replaced by younger and tighter?”

        Based on my dating experience, a guy’s options and SMV has no relation whatsoever to how easily he gets jealous. If anything, alphas are easiest to make jealous because they project their schemes onto other men.


      • “Based on my dating experience, a guy’s options and SMV has no relation whatsoever to how easily he gets jealous. If anything, alphas are easiest to make jealous because they project their schemes onto other men.”

        Depends on your definition of alpha. Jealousy is just stories you tell yourself about your own shortcomings, it’s a mindset for those who focus on their precious rather than exercising their options. It’s as lazy as it is fearful. But I can see why you’d want to believe that alpha guys get jealous, the swashbuckling hero doing what he feels is right in his heart… because of you etc. I bet you love Meatloaf. I’d rather hit the next button and move on.


      • ” But I can see why you’d want to believe that alpha guys get jealous, the swashbuckling hero doing what he feels is right in his heart… because of you etc.”

        I’ve seen plenty of jealousy that isn’t about doing what is right in one’s heart or about a reaction to a real threat.

        I’ve had boyfriends get jealous of 18 yr olds, my cousins, random guys that hit on me on the street. They show their jealousy because they can’t hide it. Maybe they would rather, but in the moment, they can’t.

        On this comment section though it looks like a lot of guys deny they feel jealous. I guess the feeling has such magnitude that they have to walk away from it. It’s a tough one to digest and face. If you face it, you have to feel it and the feeling of it is a hellish one.


      • It’s not ‘denial” Femx. It’s just logical. I don’t regard women as children who are unable to control themselves, anymore than I consider myself somebody who, when approached in a bar, is unable *not* to think with his privates. If I am confronted with a possible jealousy-inducing issue, I have already decided, resolved, planned my response. I have communicated that to my lover. I don’t accept it, won’t tolerate it, and this conclusion is liberating from the fear of loss. Women who don’t get this reveal themselves pretty quickly and I remove myself from them.


      • What’s the point in feeling jealous over a girl.
        If she doesn’t want to be with a guy, so be it.
        Find someone who does.


      • Speaking of this whole jealousy thread, I’ve got a question for the general audience.

        A few years ago, I went back to my alma mater and to a party at a frat I’m kinda cool with. It’s a mix of frat guys/sorority girls and my ex was still in that sister sorority. This ex of mine I made pretty clear I wanted nothing to do with her (ignoring her calls/facebook messages/her attempting to talk to me/etc.) so while at this frat party I basically get asked to leave because I was making “one of the girls” uncomfortable. I’m 99% sure it was my ex who accused me of that just to get me kicked out of the party. it wasn’t a total loss since I went back to a girl’s house who was at the party lol and I’m pretty sure the reason that she accused me of that is *because* I was flirting with other girls.

        I’m just wondering if my intuition about that is correct, if she really was being the crazy/jealous ex and wanted me to not be there because I was flirting with other girls… or if there’s some other explanation for her behavior (yes, the reason I cut off all contact with her was because of her… odd behavior in the first place).


      • on October 28, 2013 at 11:24 pm Hugh G. Rection

        Yeah that’s the kind of shit they’ll sometimes pull, finding some beta to hash out her issues with you.


    • on October 28, 2013 at 12:36 pm RappaccinisDaughter

      Really? So men doing jealous ragemode actually works on somebody? Huh, learn something new every day.

      Personally, jealous ragemode makes my eyes roll so hard I have to wind ’em up first. That’s why I love CH’s advice here…I *wish* the jealous rage-moders would just walk the F away and never call me again. It would save me the trouble.

      [CH: jealousy ragemoding can work, but it has to 1. come from a place of non-neediness and 2. has to be delivered in a semi-controlled manner, and at an unexpected time. it sounds contradictory, but you’d know it’s not if you’ve ever seen it in action.]


      • I haven’t seen men jealous really.. I have seen a man get angry if another man tries to talk to his woman, but I don’t think that is jealousy.. it is more the feeling of him being disrespected by the other man.

        I always thought women get more jealous. I have been jealous about a man, it was horrible.


      • I would say that female jealousy is more intense than male jealousy.

        Men get jealous over anything. When a woman gets jealous it means something. 5’s can make men jealous, when a woman gets jealous you know it’s about an alpha.

        I have been jealous about a man, it was horrible.

        That’s because he was alpha and other women wanted to fuck him. If he was an optionless virgin you would not care.


      • Really?

        I don’t really agree with this…because if a man is showing very much attention to a woman(even if the woman thinks he is optionless) .. and then suddenly he withdraws that attention and diverts it to another woman you don’t think she will feel jealous? I think most women will.


      • If you’re a high value woman, and you settle fairly early in life, there isn’t much reason for jealousy.


      • Yes Lara..I see what you are saying.. But I don’t think it’s only about being higher value than another woman, sometimes it’s just about feeling threatened to lose your husband. I know some women who’s husbands have cheated on them with women much less beautiful than their wives. I think it’s just about the novelty of something “new” not necessarily better.


      • embracing,
        I definitely think a wife should care about her husband’s behavior and loyalty to his family. That’s different, than a woman, who gets excessively jealous, over a recent boyfriend merely looking at another woman. That’s more what I was referring to.


      • I disagree completely. Women getting jealous means nothing. And just betas think that because she is jealous that means she loves you. They should pay more attention to jealousy games girls play towards another girls to pretend to be interested in a guy just so that another girl never gets him.

        Once my exgf approached an exbeta of her and started talking to him in front of me, she was too friendly to him and I thought it was weird. After she ended and he left she asked me: “You never get jealous do you?” I said: “Why? You can talk to him as long as you want but in the end it’s me who is going to your home”

        Game. Set. Match. but … yes bitches be crazy trying to ignite jealousy in us


      • I think most women get either turned on or drawn to men when they show jealous rage. However, I get what you mean about the eye roll reaction. That’s what I feel when I have to sit in a car driven by some guy with road rage. Road rage is one of those weird things that in theory could be attractive given the psychological elements that cause it. However, it’s sure not attractive to me and I can’t imagine many other girls are drawn to a guy that shows it. It gets the hardest eye roll from me. I guess that’s what jealous rage feels like to you.

        Embs, was the guy actually seriously involved with another woman? I only get jealous if a guy I really crush on is seriously involved with another woman. I also will get a different kind of jealousy if a girl who is obviously prettier than me walks into a room. However, I can only feel this reaction if the girl is also Indian. A white chick could be a 9.5 and I won’t feel anything standing next to her. Am I weird ? Can other girls feel cross racial jealousy of strikingly pretty girls?

        [CH: have you ever considered the possibility that maybe you’re just a weirdo?]


      • on October 28, 2013 at 1:29 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        First point: Yes, that’s dead-on about the road rage. Maybe part of it is that all of the jealous rage I’ve been subjected to has been just…so…stupid. I’ve had dates/boyfriends get jealous of:
        * gay friends!
        * colleagues old enough to be my father!
        * colleagues old enough to be my GRANDfather!
        * male relatives!
        * male relatives AT A FUNERAL!
        * random strangers who might have looked at me!
        * clerks who served me my popcorn at the movie theater!

        I don’t know what it is I do to attract the Stage Five Clingers, but I really need to figure it out because holy shit does it ever get old in a hurry.

        Second point: Yeah, I’m with you on the cross-racial lack of envy. It’s not that I don’t see the beauty; I do. I’m just somehow not threatened the same way I am by another white girl.


      • I don’t know what it is I do to attract the Stage Five Clingers

        My guess would be that you don’t treat them like shit.. like other women do. You’re probably too nice to them, in other words. That might make you a nice person, but also beta/gamma-catnip.


      • on October 28, 2013 at 2:18 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        Hoo boy. The only way I can test that hypothesis would be to treat guys like shit. I don’t really want to do that.


      • on October 28, 2013 at 3:53 pm alexandrahamilton87

        I too have the weird lack of cross-racial envy. I can see a stunning Asian chick and my reaction is zero, but if I see a white girl one point hotter I am jealous of her looks. I guess I figure if a guy likes Asian chicks there’s no chance in hell he would ever be into me.


      • alexandrahamilton87
        I can see a stunning Asian chick and my reaction is zero

        wait till you are 30.


      • thwack

        I can see a stunning Asian chick and my reaction is zero

        wait till you are 30.

        Or 40… Asian Women, the gift that keeps on giving… 4 or 5 decades means fuck all to these paragons of youth and beauty. By 30+ White girls are generally busted in the face. By 40+ black chicks succumb to ageing in the face (though bodywise most of them were busted at 30), Asian women, not even a little.


      • Road rage is of a piece, to me, with the in-office screaming tantrum specialist, the bully coach, the man who can’t think. It just signals fear, uncertainty, lack of self-control, incompetence.

        For the football enthusiast, Bo Pelini is a rager of staggering imbecility. It’s not because he knows what he is doing, how to fix his problems, or where he is going. Because he doesn’t. He’ll be fired soon.

        Perhaps one of the more gentlemanly coaches in the country is Ferentz, and he wins at the highest level in a state that produces 4-5 D-I football players a year. He is the third-longest tenured head football coach. Now, when *he* loses his shit on the sidelines, it’s for one reason: he thinks he’s right, and as a result, everyone, and in particular the zebes, listens.


      • “I don’t know what it is I do to attract the Stage Five Clingers, but I really need to figure it out because holy shit does it ever get old in a hurry.”

        Ras, as far as I know, that’s not stage 5 clinger behavior. Every guy I’ve ever dated would get jealous of everything you just mentioned if I paid kindly attention to said things in front of my fella. I think that’s just the way typical guys are built. It is sort of weird because these reactions will happen even in guys who generally have very high self control or high rationality etc. I figure it must be a really strong reaction in them because it’s so obviously ridiculous to me (and to them too in hindsight), but they cannot help show their jealousy. It’s like a primal force that involuntarily takes over an otherwise rational civilized person.


      • on October 29, 2013 at 7:55 am RappaccinisDaughter

        Oh, I disagree. That’s Stage 5 Clinger behavior, all right, and I made the mistake of putting up with it one time. Ever since then, I refuse to tolerate it. Men are 1/2 the population. They’re my colleagues, my doctors, my friends, the people who change my oil and serve my food. I’m not going to live in purdah because somebody can’t control his peeeewins.

        And yes, that sauce is also for the gander. I stopped giving a shit about trying to jealously police a guy’s behavior and contacts right around the time I got old enough to drive at night by myself.


      • Fem.. No they were not married yet..but they were dating, so it was still very disrespectful of another man to try to talk her when he knew she wasn’t single.. so I think it’s understandable the man got angry.

        I’m surprised you don’t get jealous easily if you have an interest in a man.. I thought we all did. It’s something I should work on of’s not a pleasant feeling,


      • LOL, EmYoFem. If some guy flirts with my wife (it’s happened), I just sit back and laugh, because she’s going to hand him his nuts on a plate. The disrespect is not if some guy hits on your woman (it’s gonna happen if you have a good one); the disrespect occurs when she responds with anything other than icy indifference/snarling hostility to his advances.


      • Yes It’s disrespectful is a woman responds… usually a woman will make clear she is not and the man will go away,and then like you said you sit back and laugh. But some men are very very persistent, for example if husband and wife are out together, and a man look at her and wait until he goes to the bathroom to harass her. That is disrespect, and if he won’t leave her alone, the man is right to be very angry.


      • Now that you mention it, on a really low level I do feel this. For ex, there was a guy at work who was all over me. I had no interest in him and within a few weeks he shifted to a new girl. It made me marginally jealous, but hardly something you’d be able to pick up on. But that’s usually the context in which that situation occurs for me. The reason the guy starts paying attention to another girl is because I show no interest in him. Inevitably, it will happen in very casual settings too. For ex, if you are in a group of girls at a bar, a guy will talk to one of you and then another. If the guy is attractive, this can elicit jealousy. However, for me this is an extremely low level of jealousy. At a bar or party, I always step aside as much as possible and let whatever other girl have all the attention. If they are pretty, they tend not to want it either.

        I’ve never done anything different, but experience is that it doesn’t matter if you do absolutely nothing to engage with a guy at a bar or party. If he’s within your social circle and he thought you were cute, he will find you. The facebook invite will happen or the text will appear on your phone even if he was talking to some other girl the whole night.


      • I think jealousy is a normal reaction for both sexes. If you don’t feel jealousy it means you don’t care.

        I think a bit of jealousy is good for a relationship.


      • “If you don’t feel jealousy it means you don’t care.”

        Exactly. It’s one thing if your partner is acting inappropriately or goading you into feeling jealous because they’re insecure. But sometimes you just worry. It’s inevitable. If you never feel jealousy, then you never feel love. That’s sad.


      • on October 28, 2013 at 7:27 pm haunted trilobite

        ‘Dating’ doesn’t exist as a choice on a census form. It’s either ‘married’ or ‘single’


      • on October 28, 2013 at 7:34 pm haunted trilobite

        ‘Dating’ isn’t an option on a census form. It’s either ‘married’ or ‘single’


      • Yeah, but I don’t know if I am weird regarding that particular aspect. I kind of get the impression that other women feel significantly less jealousy or even no jealousy to pretty women of other races. I don’t think it registers in the same way subconsciously. But maybe not. That’s why I am asking.


      • I think jealousy of another woman is just you perceiving her as a threat because you think she is more beautiful than you and will take your man, or will get the attention of the man you are interested in. (You meaning any woman)..
        But I don’t get the race-exclusive thing Fem. Perhaps it’s because you feel she’s on a different scale than you and there would be not competition between the two of you as you are a different race, therefore couldn’t possibly compare yourself?
        I’ve felt jealous of other women’s beauty.. now I just stop myself and say a prayer silently to protect her from the evil eye/our envy “Thank God for her beauty”. It will take away the envy.


      • feministx

        . I kind of get the impression that other women feel significantly less jealousy or even no jealousy to pretty women of other races.
        Wait till they turn 30.