Email From Mystery

I received an email von Markovic (the pickup artist who goes by the pseudonym Mystery) in response to this post I wrote. I can’t vouch for the authenticity of the email, but the writing style and splendid vanity on display do sound like Mystery’s voice. I won’t reveal the email address from which this was sent in the interest of privacy. Anyhow, this stuff is kind of insider-y, so if it bores you you can go over to Andrew Sullivan’s blog and read about Beta of the Month Candidate Conor Friedersdorf’s continued fascination with game and yours truly.

Several points of your article are in err.

1. The mother is not, nor has she ever been, a stripper. She has been in Maxim UK tho. I continue to offer monthly seminars on picking up hired guns which include exotic dancers (and Maxim models).

2. My daughter is not yet 3, to speak of her getting sarged is in bad taste, hell it puts a shit taste in my mouth. Her continued privacy (safety) is my priority. Please refrain from playing with shit.

3. Deadbeat dad talk: it’s as if you have never met me yet speak as if you have. She lives in England with mom yes – close to family. I lived there around the time of my London bootcamp, then traveled to Toronto with them so we could all spend family time there for a couple weeks – we roasted marshmellows with my brother, sister, mother, etc. Then baby and mom returned to the UK while I did my SF bootcamp, LA bootcamp, some pitch meetings for a couple new shows, and a thing for comedy central. I move into my new place in the Hollywood Hills Sept 1. Mom and baby move 30 min. away with nanny (a gay guy) in a month. It’s difficult to be away from my daughter for sometimes weeks or more at a time. We video-skype to stay close – like living in the future. I do not live with mom presently, tho I’m having them living much closer to me.

4. My hair is gorgeous! 🙂

5. My nails look fine. Never had nail fungus, this is plain silly. Haven’t painted my nails black in a couple months tho I reserve the right to do so in the future. Or maybe even red.

6. Matador’s hair: yeah he’s had work done: he highly recommends the technology to those students who would benefit from it. Saying wig? Looks like someone wants his face punched in by a man bigger, stronger, and with more wealth than you.

Preselected: When I say I understand women (a mother, older sister, two nieces, a daughter), it means I get it. I get it.

Leader of men: don’t worry, while Matador would press you through the floor, I’m the guy in his ear saying, don’t do it he’s not worth it.

Protector of loved ones: my daughter is not yet 3. Keep her out of your marketing in the future please. What movie is, “fuck with my daughter and I kill you” from?

Willingness to emote: I’m hurt by your silly comments. As if I’d never read them personally. Such time spent will preclude you from playing with the big kids.

Successful risk taker: I may take risks with my career (notice the operative word: successful), but never with my daughter. She is safe and happy. Where did you come up with your conclusions?! Nail fungus? Deadbeat dad?

All this aside, pleasure to meet another person interested in the PUA. Mystery.

What do I do with the text I wrote, send it just to you or send it to my double opt in mailing list? I wonder how big the list is today.

Mystery – Sent from My iPhone.

I don’t know if he meant it, but for some reason I found his email really humorous, and even touching in a twisted way. It’s over the top, it’s all over the place, it’s… an emotionally charged powerhouse. Some of his points are strange (nail fungus?) but I think he was responding to comments left by my mischievous readers.

I would just add that, yes, you do have gorgeous hair, Mystery. And whatever Matador had done to his hair, it’s a work of art. Maybe he should shill for his hair restoration doc. Also, any pressing through the floor that Matador wishes to do should be redirected to superomega David Alexander. A good, solid pounding (face, not ass) would be the best thing for DA.

I don’t have any future marketing plans, but sometimes I wish I did. Rest assured, any marketing will not involve your daughter. 3-year-olds and moms wouldn’t be my target audience.

PS I highly recommend that all the new and befuddled readers who are coming from sites like Larry Auster’s and who seem to fall on the traditional conservative (read: beta) side of the ideological spectrum get up to speed by reading Mystery’s seminal work on the science and art of game. You may also want to read Magic Bullets by Savoy. Then maybe you’ll be equipped to discuss matters for which you seem to have zero understanding to date.

PPS On a personal note, Mystery is of my generation. We grasped the nature of women about the same time in our lives. For this reason, I feel a sort of kinship with him and his mission in life.





Comments


  1. lmao

    frist

    Like


  2. on August 27, 2009 at 12:10 pm Indomitable Thoughts

    First!

    Ha. It’s interesting to see that Mystery reads this blog (if the story is true). It’d mean this place is more popular than I’d thought.

    Like


  3. Damn…I have an iTouch and I’m here to say that is a LONG motherfucker to type out on its POS virtual keyboard…and with nails. So props to the bastard there, at least…I guess.

    Like


  4. Good then you know about Roissy now, hehehe.

    Like


  5. It’s imposible to overestimate a guys’ protective instincts when his child is involved. You’re ready to kill or die like a crazed fanatic the moment someone fucks with your kid.

    Like


  6. And by the way I can tell your age mostly from your writings, Roissy.

    Like


  7. Drama in the PUA world….
    And this Friedsdorf character….might make more sense to ignore him. Why even bother with useless opinions.

    Like


  8. A few weeks ago I had some bitch zoom and swerve when my wife was going through a crosswalk with our boy. I slapped the car hard as it dodged by us and the bitch stopped and some punk leaned out the door with ‘tude. I was ice-cold ready to kill and walked fast toward him. He slinked inside and must have told his idiot girl-driver to hit the gas, because they sped off.

    Like


  9. barf. This entire novel is excessive “inside baseball” of the sordid variety.

    Still, it holds aptly predicted benefits
    of reinforcing why
    I avoid PUA forums.

    Like


  10. Roissy, if the entirety of your recent actions, words and image aren’t the result of a pre-determined risk-marketing strategy, then I commend you.

    It is really something lifted right out of Robert Greene or Baltasar Gracian.

    Throwing light barbarous words at a High-Ranking Lord of your Sub-Culture [THE LORD] from a relatively unknown blog and then having him respond in a way that shows his vulnerability and desire to come to terms with you. Not only that, but you’ve given a positive fraternal response to his initial disdain, thereby refusing to prostrate yourself to him or escalating the conflict and most likely appeasing his ego.

    I still have my doubts about a few claims of legitimacy and superiority hoisted by various regular characters in the “Roissysphere”, but I must say that I am increasingly interested to see how this situation and you develop. If all goes well and you continue to receive increased exposure from detractors, allies and inquirers alike, you’ll basically have solidified your position as an Underground PUG.

    Kudos.

    Like


  11. Roissy,

    As long as the subject of your relation and opinions of the Greater PUA Sub-Culture are up for discussion, would you possibly list which PUA materials and which PUAs you find to be beneficial, realistic, relevant and in lock-step with your own philosophy of “Game”?

    So far, the list seems to be composed of:

    * “The Mystery Method” by Mystery

    * “Magic Bullets” by Savoy

    * “Bang” by Roosh

    * “The Game” by Neil Strauss

    Like


  12. I don’t know if he meant it, but for some reason I found his email really humorous, and even touching in a twisted way. It’s over the top, it’s all over the place, it’s… an emotionally charged powerhouse.

    Kids really do bring out the emotions — even in players.

    Like


  13. Jesus, Mystery cries in that email like a little nancy boy.

    I’m shocked you didn’t tear him a new one because this email sounded like an emotional trainwreck, Roissy.

    Like


  14. BTW, Roissy, I noticed that Friedersdorf is suggesting an undercover hit piece on you (he must really have felt offended when you called him a “squishy pudding pop beta”).

    Considering what you know about female psychology, how would you sniff out a journo-bitch? Do you think you could do so quickly and effectively?

    I really am curious about this.

    Like


  15. on August 27, 2009 at 12:45 pm the_alpha_male

    “Jesus, Mystery cries in that email like a little nancy boy.

    If those emotions were real, then we know he’s not a psychopath.

    Don’t know why there’s so much hate for the guy. I just watched the 1st 2 seasons of The PUA and he across as a guy that genuinely likes to help other guys.

    Like


  16. I doubt that message is from Mystery… It doesn’t really sound like his tone, and I don’t know if he’s written more than a 100 word email since 2002.

    Also, he mentions “successful risk taker”… that was never part of Mystery’s “attraction switches”, and as far as I know, I’m the only one who teaches it. Even other Lovesystems instructors argue with me about whether it’s an attraction switch.

    Like


  17. as a guy that genuinely likes to help other guys

    Same with Roissy, which is why most guys like him. I guess a lot of PUAs’ blogs would be just bragging if there wasn’t an element of wanting to mentor betas involved. And such blogs would not be popular.

    Like


  18. on August 27, 2009 at 12:49 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    Larry Auster should be called an Auster-alopithecus. Such is his primitive inability to comprehend Game, despite his insistence that he does.

    But he doesn’t believe in evolution, so the irony would be lost on him.

    Like


  19. I agree that Mystery has provided a lot to the community. People should be grateful rather then hating him.

    Like


  20. I doubt this is actually Mystery writing the email. If so he should review the post. Roissy did not say half of the things that this email accuses him of, those were quoted (and funny).

    About his daughter; who cares? no seriously, who cares? as Mystery gets older he will see that whatever postulating that was done on some internet blog is the least of his concern wrt: his daughter.

    Insinuating all that physical violence from some guy who is touchy about his hair and that movie quote is a very “internet tough guy” move. Its not scary, not to a man who probably gets death threats daily for exposing the truth that others would rather hide.

    Whoever this troll is, they should go back to reading comprehension 101 as neglecting such basics will preclude them from hanging with the big boys; The ones who are not so concerned with their hair.

    Like


  21. I can’t load the original post on Mystery from July, but I recall it was rather admiring and wistful in tone, because a leader in the field had hit a milestone that typically would lead to a more conservative lifestyle for most people. Also, it linked to a YouTube video of Mystery singing a cheesy song to his daughter – so the fact of her existence was already public in that way. I don’t recall the details of the sarging arguments about her, but I think they were related to the general point that some men tend to rethink their sexual mores and behaviors once they become fathers of daughters. So I don’t think it’s correct at all to say that Roissy’s original post used the little girl as “marketing” – although Mystery certainly is right to be concerned about any public exposure of her.

    The vague threats of violence notwithstanding, it seemed like a pretty friendly e-mail, as these things go. So now Roissy is on Mystery’s radar. Cool.

    Saw the Friedersdorf piece today- that and all the tradcons coming over from Auster and those sites is very amusing. They are incapable of pulling the feminist gauze off their eyes or shaking off the miseducation of their entire lives about attraction, gender relations, and the social effects of political feminism.

    That tempest in this little teapot corner of the blogsphere so far has shed mostly heat and little light, precisely because these guys are incapable of getting it. They have placed all women on a pedestal of their own devising, which severely limits their ability to understand them.

    So in the interest of saving many wasted hours and keystrokes, I hope and urge that this sort of blows over quickly, and we can retreat back to our respective corners. I wish a worthy debate could be had, but from what I can tell so far that’s not in the cards.

    Like


  22. A comment from Nietzsche to Larry Auster:
    “What do they [conservative betas] really want? At least to make a show of justice, love, wisdom, superiority— that’s the ambition of these “lowest” people, these invalids! And how clever such an ambition makes people! For let’s admire the skilful counterfeiting with which people here imitate the trademarks of virtue, even its resounding tinkle, the golden sound of virtue. They have now taken a lease on virtue entirely for themselves, these weak and hopeless invalids—there’s no doubt about that: “We alone are the good men, the just men”—that’s how they speak: “We alone are the homines bonae voluntatis [men of good will].” They wander around among us like personifications of reproach, like warnings to us—as if health, success, strength, pride, and a feeling of power were already inherently depraved things, for which people must atone some day, atone bitterly. O how ready they themselves basically are to make people atone, how they thirst to be hangmen! “

    Like


  23. Crystal City Mariott, 2005.

    Roissy is in this photo.

    Like


  24. Roissy – you made me a big fan of your site with your Ted Kennedy post. Thank you.

    Like


  25. on August 27, 2009 at 1:06 pm Black Military Man

    Ha. Ha. PUAs are Drama Queens.

    Like


  26. Mystery is a little too emotionally unbalanced and immature for my liking. His approach doesn’t suit my personality. I prefer David Deangelo.

    But because Roissy so highly recommends Mystery Method, I’m gonna check it out.

    Like


  27. PA

    as a guy that genuinely likes to help other guys…

    Same with Roissy, which is why most guys like him.

    Darn

    It appears our munificent host
    is soon to be placed
    on a pedestal

    Like


  28. I enjoyed reading your original post on this as well as the comments, but you do have to admit that a lot of it was out of line.

    I can definitely understand his position. If you ever have kids, especially daughters, you’ll understand that “them’s fightin words” with all the stripper and whore speculation.

    I do have to agree with encolpius, by the way, that this is one long ass message to type on an iPhone!

    Like


  29. smoothvirus contributed:

    Crystal City Mariott, 2005.

    Roissy is in this photo.

    now that’s a very valuable pic – historically documentint a truly seminal event – like the signing of the Declaration of Independence – yet reminds one of History Channel’s GangLand

    Like


  30. on August 27, 2009 at 1:21 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    rofl this is awesome he got pretty upset over something somebody wrote on the internet, people are talking way worse trash about him elsewhere, I wonder why he decided you were and offender worthy of personal response.

    Like


  31. Anyone notice that those sites attacking Roissy and his world view don’t allow comments or allow for comment review before publishing.

    Those opposing Roissy know their views are easy to pick apart as they come from some sappy romantic novel that can be picked up from any Grocery store. I mean isn’t it right next to the Enquirer and Star “newspapers”? So these losers in the game of relationships have to censure or limit criticism.

    Sad…just sad.

    Like


  32. meh, Mystery can go fuck himself…

    much love buddy

    Like


  33. Why oh why when Mystery refefered to Matador pounding you into the floor–why did you turn it around and invite him to pound David Alexanders homley,plaintive,sad-eyed dogface into said floor? Was that called for? Is that suposed to be funny? Poor DA trying desperately to hold back the tears,and not wet his pants,as Matador slugs him over and over,glassess flying off,porn stash scattered across the floor,..oh yeah thats REAL funny!!!

    Like


  34. and lol, Conor Friedersdorf is such a pole-smoking faggot

    Like


  35. DeepThought

    Anyone notice that those sites attacking Roissy and his world view don’t allow comments or allow for comment review before publishing.

    I have to review first-time commenters on the site I run, mainly because of spam. However, registration is automatic, so once you’ve been cleared there’s no more review.

    One of the advantages of a wordpress.com blog (like Roissy’s) is that the spam filtering is very effective.

    Like


  36. One has to like the guy for what he wrote.

    Like


  37. The e-mail address should look authentic, as well as the signature, though I’m sure you’ve already assessed both. Googling the e-mail address itself sometimes uncovers some interesting results. Though, I don’t know why anyone would pretend to be him in order to write you. Who else would be so invested in his reputation? Except for maybe his PR agent…

    As for the actual e-mail, it doesn’t really seem to address the actual question that you alluded to when you said he “lost his edge”.

    Is it possible to be a purported “Alpha” male, or a credible PUA, with a child?

    I think it has already been established you can be Alpha and use game within an LTR, so we know that much is true. Having a child affects a lot, as we can garner from “Mystery’s” tone. He has a lot of effective knowledge up his sleeve, so I don’t know how this would bar him from continuing to make his seminars. Though, I highly doubt he’s still involved in the lifestyle himself.

    Like


  38. Here we go again.

    I don’t think the measure of the legitimacy of the respective sides in the Roissyphere vs. Beta Conservatives vs. 3rd Wave Feminists vs. Ethical PUAs vs. Etc. should be on the “perceived objectivity” of their ideals. This is bullshit.

    Whether any of the most radical proponents of these sides want to admit it, each side has some good points and observations to back up their point of view. The issues arise when each respective side declares that they have a monopoly on morality, utility and TRUTH.

    For this reason, the best criteria would seem to be the practical implications, results and consequences of each philosophy.

    Beta Conservatives had the historical advantage, but have lost major ground.

    3rd Wave Feminists have been trying to distance themselves with the Radical Feminism of Andrea Dworkin but are still very hostile to Men’s Rights and “Game”. Because of this caveat they are quickly losing relevancy within the modern face of the Date-&-Mate Field of Battle.

    Ethical PUAs are trying their best to commercialize and mainstream “Game” for mass consumption under various agendas. They currently have the upper-hand in practical application and results.

    Last but definitely not least, the Roissysphere seems to be the variable non-state actors in this little War; Possessing WMDs of unsubtle and unabashed socio-sexual observation and seduction technique. While not fully recognized as legitimate because of the more extreme elements in this camp, their pragmatism is unmatched. The ultimate results and consequences for their bid for power remains to be seen.

    Truly though, you see that after abandoning dogma, ad hominem, trolling and flame wars you can still come to an objective and useful assessment of this conflict and the various components.

    Consider doing so.

    Like


  39. Isn’t this whole insider game discussion getting a little fetishized, Roissy?

    Sort of akin to the media droning about itself or second and third-rate authors prattling on about their inspirations….

    BTW, when will Mystery be designated as Lord Foppington and your good self start suggesting The Scarlet Pimpernel as reading material?

    Like


  40. I haven’t read a thing that this guy Conor has posted before, but I just read the one above, and I think he is confused.

    For one, I can’t remember a bottle bar ever being mentioned here. In fact, I seem to remember roissy avoiding such bars in favor of more subdued lounges, which corroborates with his belief that money is not what impresses women.

    Second, I’ve always thought that roissy has an impressive knowledge of and love for women. The two are not mutually exclusive.

    Like


  41. It’s not just “inside baseball” self-referrential stuff. Roissy at one point had an article about Mystery and his daughter, to which an actor presumed to be Mystery responsed, reasonably enough, with the desire to set the record straight on several points. To that end, Roissy published his email.

    Like


  42. Sofia prescribed:

    The e-mail address should look authentic, as well as the signature, though I’m sure you’ve already assessed both. Googling the e-mail address itself sometimes uncovers some interesting results. Though, I don’t know why anyone would pretend to be him in order to write you. Who else would be so invested in his reputation? Except for maybe his PR agent…

    As for the actual e-mail, it doesn’t really seem to address the actual question that you alluded to when you said he “lost his edge”.

    Is it possible to be a purported “Alpha” male, or a credible PUA, with a child?

    I think it has already been established you can be Alpha and use game within an LTR, so we know that much is true. Having a child affects a lot, as we can garner from “Mystery’s” tone. He has a lot of effective knowledge up his sleeve, so I don’t know how this would bar him from continuing to make his seminars. Though, I highly doubt he’s still involved in the lifestyle himself.

    although longwinded, this is a very astute, clinical diagnosis of The Man, much like a dentist – or Proctologist – would give.

    you have a natural aptitude for medicine and or math – ever think of donning The White Coat?

    Like


  43. Dentist, Firepower?

    Like


  44. Your motives are now suspect.

    Like


  45. not so. you must have plenty of Dentists in the fam.

    odd – you not knowing what a doctor procto is

    Like


  46. on August 27, 2009 at 2:34 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Ruby,

    Your comment is well described.

    Social Cons are a total failure. There is no other group that has a poorer track record of achieving their goals. It is still not possible to get most socialcons to even admit that the anti-male, anti-family divorce laws should be high on their list of enemies to combat.

    I can’t think of another group that has missed the forest from the trees more completely than socialcons.

    Feminists are analogous to Al-Qaeda. They have gone from wanting rights for their group to becoming a hate cult. They have gotten this far mainly because social conservatives would rather throw men under the bus than experience feminist shaming language (which is super-effective against social cons).

    However, the great thing about extremists is that they always go too far. Feminists will collapse, just like much of Al-Qaeda has. This will happen through the Four Horsemen of Male Vengeance (which I have written about elsewhere) that will converge by 2020 to collapse the feminist power position.

    An imbalance can last for a long time, and seem normal, but when it corrects, it corrects quickly (Soviet Union, Dot-coms, housing bubble, Al-Qaeda).

    Ethical Gamers (such as myself) are certainly allies of Roissy-type PUAs. The only real difference is the desire for a small number of high-quality relationships vs. a large number of quick and impressively executed pickups.

    Like


  47. on August 27, 2009 at 2:37 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Mystery Method, as a technique, is very effective.

    Mystery as a person has shown himself to be weak at times. He has suffered from tremendous oneitis at least once, maybe twice. So he can’t always practice what he preaches.

    This in no way should dissuade someone from reading his book. There are a ton of valuable items in there.

    Like


  48. Firepower,

    Referencing a proctologist is immaterial at best, since it holds no relevance to our exchange thus far.

    No dentists or proctologists in the family. 3 doctors that I know of though. Doesn’t that fit in well with your presumptive portraiture of my life?

    Like


  49. The Fifth Horseman

    Social Cons are a total failure. There is no other group that has a poorer track record of achieving their goals.

    I’d have to nominate the US Border Patrol

    Like


  50. Though, I understand the joke. Marginally funny. Two points.

    Like


  51. on August 27, 2009 at 2:39 pm The Fifth Horseman

    DeepThought,

    Anyone notice that those sites attacking Roissy and his world view don’t allow comments or allow for comment review before publishing.

    Yep. It is the same thing as left-wing blogs, particularly feminist/misandrist blogs.

    Socialcons, more and more, are part of the left rather than the right. They are more about conformity to dogma rather than free-market entreprerneurship and self-determination.

    Hence the allies of Game are free-marketeers and fiscal cons.

    Social cons, more and more, are becoming indistinguishable from the left.

    Like


  52. Sofia bemoaned:

    Firepower,

    Referencing a proctologist is immaterial at best, since it holds no relevance to our exchange thus far.

    No dentists or proctologists in the family. 3 doctors that I know of though. Doesn’t that fit in well with your presumptive portraiture of my life?

    amazingly alliterative..
    Im Impressed

    quit luring me away from aoefe. she has moodswings

    Like


  53. Firepower,

    She’s busy luring A.J. Travis away from me. To your oblivion.

    Like


  54. on August 27, 2009 at 2:45 pm NJJR - No Jews, Just Right.

    Auster is a fucking Hebrew.

    That’s all you need to know about him.

    NJJR – No Jews, Just Right.

    Like


  55. on August 27, 2009 at 2:47 pm Sigmund the Sea Monster

    “You got to keep her off the pole!”

    Like


  56. I can’t say I’ve read too much of Mystery’s writing except The Mystery Method, but the email doesn’t sound too far removed from how way he speaks. He’s clear, alpha, and proud without being hysterical. I’m not sure why he’d send the email (responding to Roissy about comments not in Roissy’s post isn’t terribly bright), and the “Madator would punch you through the floor” stuff is just silly, but it seems possible, and interesting, that he’d write.

    Part of the fun here is that Roissy is an unusual voice in the PUA community. Of the blogs I’ve seen, he’s arguably the best writer, and he clearly has his own observations rather than parroting other people’s material. But he doesn’t do clinics at $1,000 a pop, he doesn’t link to books and videos for sale, and he stays anonymous in the shadows. He’s not on Team Savoy or Team Mystery (although I don’t think anyone could read the archives and not see that Roissy is generally a fan of Mystery).

    In this respect, he’s simply a loose cannon – he’s free to say what he wants without concern for his economic well-being or his reputation. People like that are confusing and dangerous to more traditional, self-interested parties. It will be interesting to see how much bigger Roissy will get in the PUA community as his popularity and mystique grow.

    Like


  57. Sofia boasted:

    Firepower,

    She’s busy luring A.J. Travis away from me. To your oblivion.

    and here i thought
    I’d never be rid of you both

    two birds
    one cup

    Like


  58. Firepower,

    Boasted
    or
    bemoaned?

    Like


  59. Response to the Fifth Horseman:

    Thank you, but ultimately what I’m trying to express is that the study of practical knowledge — it’s utility, structure, implementation, consequences, results, etc. — doesn’t have to be mired in identity and cultural politics; And unfortunately, “Game” as espoused by the Roissysphere has attracted Identity-Zealots via both Opponents AND Proponents.

    All these declarations of “Game” historically and ideologically being in line with so-and-so Economic/Political/Social/Religious/Philosophical group is just ridiculous.

    Trying to align the discussion of “Game” to one of these groups is akin to the creation and building up of those ‘Pretty Lies’ that the majority of us CLAIM to be here to dispel.

    I realize that Roissy’s various views will attract those who have an affinity and dislike of them and that the internet tends to concentrate extremes together but neither condition should become the basis by which cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias infect a field of study which has the potential to become as rigorously self-analyzing, objective and adaptable as it is to external conditions.

    Like


  60. iPhone???? And here I was led to believe that anyone who uses an Apple product is a conformist SWPL chode.

    Like


  61. I kinda wondered why roissy does this.(helping us men)

    I can see why Roosh does this since he used to be a beta, and he is also selling a book. but roissy doesn’t reveal his past, nor is he selling anything.

    and i doubt he’s just being a “good guy.”

    anyway. i doubt thats mystery.

    Like


  62. This is fake…

    it’s

    Sent from my iPhone
    not

    Sent from My iPhone

    notice the capitalization differences…

    [editor: the ip addy originates from CA, and the full message header lists this:

    X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (7A400)
    Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 7A400)]

    Like


  63. TimX raises an excellent point.

    Like


  64. I do have to agree with encolpius, by the way, that this is one long ass message to type on an iPhone!

    Maybe he Google Doc-ed it first, to think it over and such. Doesn’t sound that way, though…pretty off the cuff and spontaneous.

    Like


  65. Ruby shone:

    Thank you, but ultimately what I’m trying to express is that the study of practical knowledge — it’s utility, structure, implementation, consequences, results, etc. — doesn’t have to be mired in identity and cultural politics; And unfortunately, “Game” as espoused by the Roissysphere has attracted Identity-Zealots via both Opponents AND Proponents.

    meh. too much work.
    just ensure you look great in thighhighs

    mout

    Like


  66. The Fifth Horseman

    Mystery as a person has shown himself to be weak at times. He has suffered from tremendous oneitis at least once, maybe twice. So he can’t always practice what he preaches.

    So being in love is “weak” but fucking hundreds of disposable sluts is “strong.” How does this work, exactly?

    Like


  67. I’m glad I kept reading after your “insider-y” warning, otherwise I wouldn’t have made it to this paragraph of yours:

    “I would just add that, yes, you do have gorgeous hair, Mystery. And whatever Matador had done to his hair, it’s a work of art. Maybe he should shill for his hair restoration doc. Also, any pressing through the floor that Matador wishes to do should be redirected to superomega David Alexander. A good, solid pounding (face, not ass) would be the best thing for DA.

    Priceless — I almost spit a mouthful of ginger ale on my desk reading that.

    You really should write for a living. Apply your style and skill beyond the confines of this topic and write the sort of political stuff that P.J. O’Rourke used to write for Rolling Stone in the old days.

    Like


  68. ruby,

    i don’t have any immediate thoughts about ethical PUAs or roissy-ites. i may fall into one of those categories, but who knows.

    in regards to the first two groups, you make an interesting point. here is how i view them. beta conservatives are traditionalists who want to go back to the good old days of family values, but they fail to grasp the full extent of the cultural sea change that keeps us from going back. in their view, if men would just start acting like gentleman again, then women would turn into ladies. most people on this board will immediately grasp what’s wrong with that idea.

    the 3rd wave feminists want to forge ahead into some brave new world where they are neither 50s housewives nor 60s/70s lesbian feminists. on face value, there’s nothing wrong with that. the real problem is that they want to have their cake and eat it as well. the want to spend their twenties slutting it up with alphas and then find a suitable beta provider to take them, warts and all, when their sexual market value drops. they want to go into careers that they have great “passion” for and which allows them enough fleixibility to have a family, but they also demand the exact same pay as the men, and those women, who chase the dollar with no shred of sentimentality in their lives. they want to be free to walk away from their marriages on their own terms, but still want to be kept in the “lifestyle to which they’ve become accustomed”. in a sane world people would have the freedom to do whatever they wanted, but would also be held responsible for their actions.

    the really sick part is that both groups need each other, but neither really wants to face up to the reality of the present situation. the result is some preverse social ballet where women bounce back and forth between the blissful privations of alpha cock and the forgiving shelter of beta arms.

    Like


  69. Roissy,

    Capitalize on this blog as soon as you can. If it means to have a marketing plan, have one. It may make your loyal followers like you less. But, hell, who said that to be liked by many is of much importance in one’s life.

    The nature of this blog suggests that its appeal and/credibility be only as long-lived as you stay an active player in the market, unfettered by love and other passion. The trouble is that to run a successful forum like this, the host must know love and passion so well in the first place; yet followers will punish and laugh at you once you show any sign of betrayal to the cause for your personal love and passion. Look at Mystery, having a daughter and openly expressing his love for her practically turned the guy into a joke from a hero. His image was resurrected in Pupu’s mind by what he wrote in that email (if he indeed was the author). It’s cute that he threatened to ban you from playing with the big kids:-)
    You are providing a valuable public service. Everyone will be very happy to see you personally benefit from it.

    Like


  70. Did anyone note that Ol’ Conner -unless he was being very tongue-in- cheek- said he’d welcome an undercover hit piece on Roissy by Amanda Marcotte?

    [editor: i did notice it. if conor meant it, he’s an even bigger piece of beta shit than i had him pegged for.]

    If he was serious , shouldn’t he not only be drummed out of the biocon fraternity but the socon as well? It’s pretty hard to find a feminist who writes at even a pseudo influential blog * and Pandagon is pretty influential * more stridently anti-male than Marcotte. She was the one you all might remember who insisted even after the AG’s report of actual innocence that the Duke 3 just had to have raped or sexually assaulted that black stripper. She’s also one of two bloggers *the other being the one who runs Shakespeares Sister* who lost their jobs as official bloggers of the Edwards campaign b/c of anti-catholic remarks. And wtf is Sullivan doing publishing Conner’s shit?

    Like


  71. Libertarians and fiscal conservatives are the very problem themselves. They are more than happy with woman as primarily an economic producer and consumer, and are extremely uncomfortable with saying that a woman’s most important role is as wife and mother. Most capitalists are quite happy to trade in long term social stability for short term profits, and short term profits are maximized by women going to work and then using the money they make there to buy shit, not by women staying home to raise kids. So, no, market incentives will not help save society.

    Whiskey is right, it was contraception, anonymous urban living and female economic independance that got us into this particular situation. Leftist/feminist ideology provided a justification for all this, but it wasn’t the cause. Is it any surprise that it is Corporate America that has gone so hogwild for feminism and PC?

    Socons, tucked away with their relatively well behaved women, have been caught napping when it comes to analyzing the true sources of the Sexual Revolution. But at least they never lost sight of the fact that a free sexual market was a very bad idea, not did they ever completely lose appreciation for the benefits of traditional sex roles.

    Like


  72. Mystery’s tone (if this is really him) is interesting to note. In a sense, he gamed you Roissy.

    He points out that Matador would do some damage to you (I say fuck him, but whatever), but Mystery also plays the part of protector. He’s tugging at your emotions on that issue, giving you cold and then hot.

    [editor: i did notice the cold-hot-cold-hot routine. how could i not? chicks do it all the time!]

    He DHV by telling you that you won’t play with the big kids and by pointing out that he has a large double opt-in mailing list. All the while he’s using a friendly tone. You can’t peg him. On the one hand, if it were me, I’d want to lash out and berate Mystery for being such a pussy, on the other hand, you kind of still want to be in his good graces.

    [nah, i don’t want to lash out. he’s brought much light into a dark beta world. i still think dakota is a stripper’s name, tho.]

    Like


  73. J R

    in their view, if men would just start acting like gentleman again, then women would turn into ladies. most people on this board will immediately grasp what’s wrong with that idea.

    Shaming women and preventing them from slutting it up would do a lot more to help Western civilization than the game solution of nihilism and self-destruction.

    Like


  74. If Roissy loves his daughter more power to him. I hope this is so, and I hope he learns to be a good father and gets much love. He’s done much for men, I doubt even our esteemed evill host fails to wish Mystery the best. Yeah, he took a cheap shot at the kid’s name, but I don’t think Roissy is going to be doing any hatin’ on Mystery for reproducing.

    Now what that daughter might grow up to become so long as Mystery stays in her life: I can see MRA , a female “player”, “daddies lil girl”… ahh, the possibilities for humor and tragedy are endless 🙂

    Like


  75. ACK!! previous post..I meant if Mystery loves his daughter- no, no, I swear I haven’t been drinking.

    Like


  76. its funny in the Friedersdorf piece that he goes off on this tangent about roissy using bottle service. he creates the red herring and tries to tear roissy down as a “douchebag” for using it.

    either way, from what i remember, aren’t you a beer guy roissy?

    [editor: hoppy beer and pinot noir guy. lately i’ve been dipping into the world of single malt scotch. to my recollection, i’ve never paid for bottle service.]

    Like


  77. Shaming women and preventing them from slutting it up would do a lot more to help Western civilization than the game solution of nihilism and self-destruction.

    I disagree that game is inherently nihilistic and self-destructive, but the larger point is true, in order to preserve Western civilization women need to have more outside controls placed on their mating choices. The practice of game can only help on the margins.

    [editor: one way this could go: the increased options that game affords men will (re)create incentives for women to make mate choices that are more accommodating of a functional first world society.]

    Like


  78. Maybe if men weren’t so receptive to women “slutting it up” in the first place…

    Like


  79. Shaming women and preventing them from slutting it up would do a lot more to help Western civilization than the game solution of nihilism and self-destruction.

    you think? show me one social issue that was actually solved through the use of shame. you could make an argument that slavery and jim crow were ended, in part, by shaming southern whites, but that’s a stretch.

    a better example would be obesity. despite what some people think, it ain’t all that easy being fat in america. no one wants to be the fat kid in the pool wearing a t shirt. despite that fact, there’s an increasing obesity issue in this country.

    if you really think shame can be used as a in instrument of social change, how would you go about deploying it? bring back the scarlet A? mandatory implantation of “dick-ometers”? set up web sites like the ones for sex offenders? “oh my god, dear! look how many registered sluts we have living on our neighborhood.”

    Like


  80. Thursday,’

    ” Most capitalists are quite happy to trade in long term social stability for short term profits, and short term profits are maximized by women going to work and then using the money they make there to buy shit, not by women staying home to raise kids. So, no, market incentives will not help save society.

    Whiskey is right, it was contraception, anonymous urban living and female economic independance that got us into this particular situation. Leftist/feminist ideology provided a justification for all this, but it wasn’t the cause. Is it any surprise that it is Corporate America that has gone so hogwild for feminism and PC?”

    That is a good, cogent, to-the-point analysis of where we are. Corporate America, with “getting-the-stock-price-up-at-all-costs” mentality, has indeed been selling the future for the present for about 30 years now. In another decade or two, we will be reaching that future, and I think we will be less wealthy for it.

    *****If Mystery has been having to field questions about psoriasis (Salycic Acid shampoos and Coal Tar shampoos can help that autoimmune condition), and nail fungus (herbal nail soaks are available), he probably HAS been wondering where that info got public at. It would only take a google search in all probability to direct him here. This is a high-traffic blog, with a high-quality readership for the most part. Nobody would want any rumors, true or false, circulating about themselves at a place like this (I’ll bet ol’ Wendy Leigh is glad she lives out in the sticks). The deadbeat dad, fungus, psoriasis, and wig allegations were on a VH1 message board, and Roissy merely made note of their existence. However, most of the people who believe that information probably got it first, second, or thirdhand via this high-traffic blog, and thus he (Roissy) gets blamed for dissemenating it unfairly. Life isn’t a fair thing though.

    Like


  81. Shaming women and preventing them from slutting it up would do a lot more to help Western civilization than the game solution of nihilism and self-destruction.

    You’re forgetting that most of the slut shaming came from other women, not from men. Do you really think women are going to start shaming the sluts among them now?

    Like


  82. on August 27, 2009 at 3:40 pm Black Military Man

    Shaming only works in shame-based cultures like India.

    Americans have been shameless for too many decades now to reverse the trend.

    Like


  83. Response to J R:

    I’m not so sure the historical, social and cultural factors that led to the current Chaos in the West’s Date-&-Mate playing field are so simplistic.

    Again, I want to avoid any discussion of which group’s ideology and construct of past, present and future events has the most legitimacy; That just leads down the same old path of drawn out, counter-productive internet forum flame wars.

    One of the reasons I like this blog, even though I do not agree with all the views espoused in it, is because Roissy seems to understand the reality of all conflicts: Pragmatism triumphs perception.

    Through this realization, he seems to be utilizing tactics, social trends and greater strategy to personally profit. This intent is even stated in one of his infamous Roissy’isms…

    To paraphrase:

    ” ‘I’m not trying to chaos of the current dating scene — No, in fact, I’m just trying to profit from it.’ ”

    I’m pretty wary of the Culture Wars within our society and this bold and nakedly honest declaration of intent is a welcomed respite from it all.

    Finally, on the issue of ideology, what makes any social movement successful isn’t the strength of it’s principles — No, the principles only serve to attract, develop and cohere participators — But the strength of it’s technique and method.

    For this reason, I continue to suggest that for those who would best assist the Roissysphere’s Greater Intents, the minimizing of overtly controversial views and the continued development of how to arm previously hapless men with “Game” should continue unhindered.

    Perhaps more discussions of Long Term Relationship “Game”?

    I can’t be the only one who wonders how to integrate the ‘Roissy Method’ seamlessly into a relationship where “Game” wasn’t originally used?

    Like


  84. There is something a little tacky about bottle service. Its like someone is trying to announce, “hey, look at me, I have a lot of money over here”. If someone is truly wealthy and doesn’t want their conversation interrupted all night, I could see it. But for the average Joe trying to make an impression, its pretty ridiculous.

    MC Hammer, who went bankrupt, is the type one could see having bottle service multiple times while he was “in the money”. Mike Tyson also***.

    I remember a baseball player that used to play for the Cardinals in the 80’s named Jack Clark, who eventually had major economic trouble right after his retirement. The guy at one time owned some 20 or 30 cars (it was a ridiculous number). I wonder if he ever got bottle service. He is an assistant coach somewhere now, but I bet he doesnt live the high life anymore. Men are always a paternity suit away from economic distress in this country.

    ****I remember a sports reporter on the radio about a decade back claiming that at one time Mike Tyson used to have a guy go buy hundreds of shirts for him. He’d wear them once, and throw them away. Tyson went broke later on. I wonder how much money he wasted on clothing, jewelry, cars, and shoes? He probably could have bought a house with all that alone.

    Like


  85. Do you really think women are going to start shaming the sluts among them now?

    Oh, they still do it now. And ferociously. Blogger Agnostic has some posts on how nasty high school girls can be towards each other in this area. It’s just that with urban anonymity post-high school, slut shaming isn’t very effective.

    Like


  86. Novaseeker,

    If you give women $30-40K jobs in offices, sitting on their ass typing, running the fax machine, filling out forms, getting coffee, and answering the phone/making calls, …………………………………..they will be comfy enough in this existence to wait “to be swept off their feet” by the type of man they can indeed obtain sex from via the clubs.

    The thing is, that type of man is going to wind up with hotter, younger women for the most part, and the hypothetical women above have to “settle” for men who are actually about their own equal in percentile-attractiveness. They delay it too long holding out for the “one-night-stand”-quality (in purely attractive terms) guys, and are distressed when it doesn’t happen soon enough.

    Getting to sleep with the top 20% is like a drug for the gals in the 50th, 40th, and 30th percentiles. After getting to do that from 18-26, when they start to want to settle down…………………….they just cant figure out why those guys wont do it -with them-. Why would any guy getting laid by 3-4 different women per week WANT to settle down? He can father kids in his 40’s or even 50’s. He is having too much fun to marry, and when he does, he will want a women in his same percentile. If women did NOT have all these office-girl bullshit jobs, their concerns would be more practical. But these jobs are fucking easy, pay relatively well, usually have benefits. Its not like they are Rosie the Riveter having to sweat it out, or are underneath a car doing filthy repair, or having to do gross and depressing nursing work. THOSE gals usually want a man, so they can quit.

    Like


  87. J R

    if you really think shame can be used as a in instrument of social change, how would you go about deploying it? bring back the scarlet A? mandatory implantation of “dick-ometers”? set up web sites like the ones for sex offenders? “oh my god, dear! look how many registered sluts we have living on our neighborhood.”

    Stop enabling sluts, and make it clear that you don’t approve of their behavior.

    Like


  88. The day a man stops enabling a slut by NOT sleeping with her is a day when pigs fly indeed.

    Like


  89. on August 27, 2009 at 4:03 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Ruby,

    Perhaps more discussions of Long Term Relationship “Game”?

    I can’t be the only one who wonders how to integrate the ‘Roissy Method’ seamlessly into a relationship where “Game” wasn’t originally used?

    There is some of that discussed here, but no blogger who leads in that specialty. Dave in Hawaii has a lot of good writings on that subject, as does Obsidian.

    Roissy’s ’16 Commandments’ are a good quick-reference guide on tactics that can be used very well in LTRs. Those tactics alone can save many, many marriages.

    That quisling nebbish Conor Fried-dork is slamming these very 16 commandments, when he should be endorsing them.

    Like


  90. @ Thursday

    There is something a little tacky about bottle service. Its like someone is trying to announce, “hey, look at me, I have a lot of money over here”. If someone is truly wealthy and doesn’t want their conversation interrupted all night, I could see it. But for the average Joe trying to make an impression, its pretty ridiculous.

    I agree. I think bottle service is kind of ridiculous. But then, I don’t drink.

    That said, my (female) friends have been known to drop for bottle service when we don’t want to be disturbed. Which is…um, most of the time. In which case, it’s an effective solution.

    Of course, they’ve occasionally been known to drop it for completely idiotic things: “I don’t want to stand in line. I’ll get a table,” or, “I want to smoke inside this club.”

    Like


  91. Having followed Mystery since err, 2003, and having read Roissy for half that time, I am confident in making one particular distinction (and conclusion) about the two.

    Mystery’s method has a solid foundation, but the more detailed one gets with his M.O., the more attuned it is to Mystery only. That said, Mystery is only good for foundational work, but not anything more specific than that. Peacocking like Mystery only works for those like Mystery. People reinvent themselves after his image – and while that’s quite an homage to a man who has mastered the art of seduction, this means we’ve got mystery look-alikes and wannabe’s all over the place. One cannot be oneself AND Mystery at the same time. Still, game is not something that can be learned in a bootcamp – it requires a good deal of contemplation, intuition, and steady practice. This is why I get the feeling that most of the people on his e-mail list are lemon-puas: they got the attitude, the bagged lines, the right accessories, and the right hairdo, but none of that philosophical grounding that is needed. (Note: i distinguish foundational game concepts from a more integrated philosophical upbringing: There’s a difference between saying “can I get a girls opinion on something” and not needing a catchy opener at all and just going with what has become natural).

    This is what Roissy does best imo. Roissy’s work here has Mystery’s foundation, but also all the particular details one would seek in alpha-integration. I took myself off of those old PUA e-mail lists I would get from DD and Mystery and so forth because there’s a limit to what they can teach. Here – not so much.

    While I haven’t looked into anything that Mystery has done recently, I’m pretty sure there is no discussion of pressing topics that are found here. This is why I consider Roissy a thinking man’s seducer.

    That said, I would rather drive a real corvette than corvette pieces welded to a ford escort frame.

    And I agree with the above comment about LTR Game. There’s a scant discussion about this. (and Dave-from-Hawaii’s posts have been quite fascinating so far).

    Like


  92. on August 27, 2009 at 4:10 pm The Fifth Horseman

    I’ll agree with Sofia that men cannot seek to shame sluts while also seeking to sleep with them.

    Shaming is not the solution, at this point.

    Reversing the anti-male creep in divorce laws, that give women an INCENTIVE to divorce, is what would make cultural improvements flow downstream as a result.

    Too many people think that just because something is in the letter of the law, it is somehow morally just. Combine that with socialcons who would rather acquiesce to the enslavement of men rather than receive shaming language from feminists, and you get far too little resistance to the feminist agenda infecting the judicial system.

    Like


  93. Ruby

    Perhaps more discussions of Long Term Relationship “Game”?

    I can’t be the only one who wonders how to integrate the ‘Roissy Method’ seamlessly into a relationship where “Game” wasn’t originally used?

    I’m sure game works just fine if your girlfriend has a highly dysfunctional personality and needs to be pacified with game. But why would you want to be with someone like that? You don’t need game if you’re with a quality woman.

    Sofia

    The day a man stops enabling a slut by NOT sleeping with her is a day when pigs fly indeed.

    If one wishes to stop being part of the problem, one must stop sleeping with sluts. You can’t dump uranium into a river and then talk about saving the environment.

    The Fifth Horseman

    Roissy’s ‘16 Commandments’ are a good quick-reference guide on tactics that can be used very well in LTRs. Those tactics alone can save many, many marriages.

    Again, if your girlfriend/wife is dysfunctional. Or if you get your kicks from dominating and manipulating her to feed your own ego. But if you’re interested in a healthy relationship, abandon all thoughts of using game.

    Like


  94. The Friedersdorf piece is essentially an admission of defeat. Not only does he opt out of going point-counterpoint on roissy’s post about him, he opts out of questioning the truth of roissy’s claims altogether. The main contention of his post is that the roissy worldview is harsh, depressing, and ugly, and that accepting it might color your experiences a bit darker than they once were.

    It is the same last ditch effort that theists and anti-determinists resort to when they have nothing left to argue–“well, regardless of whether I’m right or wrong, doesn’t my way make you feel so much better inside?? Can we really handle the truth??”

    Good luck to conor and his life of deluded wish fulfillment fantasies and learned helplessness that he prefers.

    Like


  95. z-

    tackiness isn’t about the service; it’s about the people who order it (and more often than not, they are tacky and lacking a bit of class).

    Bottleservice is quite economical (imo) – liquor of your choice plus all the mixers you want (most of the time), you get your own table (so you don’t have to get pressed against the rail or stand, and there’s little wait to get drinks (plus, it is a bit louder sitting at the bar than back at a table, so it’s easier to do your thang).

    Like


  96. Firepower lamented – “quit luring me away from aoefe. she has moodswings”

    Firepower
    Is your craving for my moods
    Nearly sated?

    Like


  97. Pitts

    Jesus, Mystery cries in that email like a little nancy boy.

    I’m shocked you didn’t tear him a new one because this email sounded like an emotional trainwreck, Roissy.

    You’re an immature stupid little emotionally adolescent pipsqueak.

    That email gave me a lot for respect for Mystery, despite as Roissy point’s out, his wierdness in bothering to refute “nail fungus” apparent jabs by Roissy commenters.

    PA’s right about a dad’s protective instincts for any child he’s acknowledged and emotionally owned as his own.

    That’s a male strength not a weakness. It’s great that Mystery can be a caring dad, as well as an apex cad.

    Like


  98. Firepower regurgitated – “two birds one cup”

    Sick

    Like


  99. It’s quite fitting that Conor (or as he’s known in D.C. policy circles, ‘Cumguzzler’) would lob his passive-aggressive limp wristed beta ‘attacks’ on Roissy from the comfort and safety of the warm, fuzzy, moist, dry cum encrusted metaphorical butthole that is certified bareback cock riding Andrew Sullivan’s blog.

    Like


  100. You know who: nonsense, game is essential to a good relationship.

    my fiance and I have talked about this on several occasions, and she sometimes reads Roissy’s new posts with me. She agrees that being an alpha is essential to a good relationship, which requires spittin’ game.

    While anecdotal, I can think of 14 different marriages (both friends and family) that suffer because the guy has become a bystander, a beta, a provider in the relationship.

    Like


  101. Sofia

    I think it has already been established you can be Alpha and use game within an LTR, so we know that much is true. Having a child affects a lot, as we can garner from “Mystery’s” tone. He has a lot of effective knowledge up his sleeve, so I don’t know how this would bar him from continuing to make his seminars. Though, I highly doubt he’s still involved in the lifestyle himself.

    I don’t. I think your wrong babe.

    The mother of his baby’s moving within 30 minutes of him, with a nanny, but not into Mystery’s place, while he is very involved with the kid, is a strong tell to me that he’s still playing around.

    Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he is still having sex with his daughter’s mommy. Just not only with her.

    Is she free too? Looks like it, doesn’t it?

    Like


  102. Mystery’s method has a solid foundation, but the more detailed one gets with his M.O., the more attuned it is to Mystery only.

    That has always been my complaint with The Mystery Method book. Furthermore, it isn’t just too focussed on what works for Mystery as an individual, but it is also too focussed on what works for picking up girls in bars and clubs. That’s why it is good to supplement The Mystery Method with Magic Bullets.

    But credit needs to be given where it is due. Most of the major theoretical breakthroughs in the science and practice of game came from Mystery.

    P.S. I’d also recommend the compendium of Tyler Durden’s writings called The Tyler Digest. If I had to pick the second most important theorist in the history of game, it would be Tyler, though David DeAngelo contributed some important concepts too.

    Like


  103. you know who,

    “I’m sure game works just fine if your girlfriend has a highly dysfunctional personality and needs to be pacified with game.”

    OR if she’s ruled by her biological engineering and instinctively responds to it. Since it has been established that ALL women respond to game, I don’t see how your point stands.

    Like


  104. Sofia

    The day a man stops enabling a slut by NOT sleeping with her is a day when pigs fly indeed.

    Totally agreed. If anything falls within “the tragedy of the commons” realm, the ability of sluts to find interested males does.

    Lots of men can righteously turn her down. Makes no difference. Someone’s gonna graze his sheep in her meadow. Right quick.

    Like


  105. Doug,

    The mother of his baby’s moving within 30 minutes of him, with a nanny, but not into Mystery’s place, while he is very involved with the kid, is a strong tell to me that he’s still playing around.

    OK, you might be right. I think I got a little too optimistic when he said such protective things about his daughter. I feel that if he wants her to respect him in any way, he’s going to have to taper off on the philandering behavior as she gets older.

    Like


  106. Mystery plays the Maxim Baby Momma – “I do not live with mom presently, tho I’m having them living much closer to me.”

    He’s leaving the door open to continue gaming the Maxim baby momma. “Babe my life is soooo busy right now but I can picture the two of us on the front porch of our retirement home watching the sunset together”. Little does she know that’s when he’ll join her and not until then. It’s enough for her for the moment and if he’s half as good as he says he is it’ll continue to work.

    Like


  107. “But he doesn’t do clinics at $1,000 a pop, he doesn’t link to books and videos for sale, and he stays anonymous in the shadows. He’s not on Team Savoy or Team Mystery (although I don’t think anyone could read the archives and not see that Roissy is generally a fan of Mystery).

    In this respect, he’s simply a loose cannon – he’s free to say what he wants without concern for his economic well-being or his reputation. ”

    Ahh I miss those days. When you sell something people (rightly) are skeptical. But as long as you consistently provide value, your street cred doesn’t have to take a hit.

    The way I see it Roissy has provided a bible of life-changing advice to thousands of guys. He should be compensated for at least his time, which as a blogger I know isn’t trivial. Unfortunately working full time, blogging daily, banging a lot of girls, and writing a book at the same time is very hard.

    Like


  108. The Fifth Horsement

    I’ll agree with Sofia that men cannot seek to shame sluts while also seeking to sleep with them.

    Shaming is not the solution, at this point.

    Shaming by individual men has never been how slut suppression worked, when it did. And it used to, and still does in many societies.

    Instead what’s worked is general social shaming, done especially by other women, but also monitored and enforced by families.

    As well, the refusal of sought after men to marry or commit to sluts or serious sluts did used to have a big effect, and still has some. The trouble there is urban anonymity.

    I actually think that men should hire PI detectives to scope out a girls slut past, or not, when it’s at the stage of getting engaged. Why the hell not? It is a rather important life decision after all. Girls do lie massively about it. It does matter to a LOT of men, especially those who’ve broken a bit free of feminist propaganda on the subject and let their basic common sense and innate instincts have more free reign.

    In village or town life, or even in big cities (like Victorian London) with highly stratified social groups, and in societies where moving from college to city to city was far less common, a girl’s reputation tended to follow her and be well, known. Not so easily these days, particularly with girls determined to cover things up.

    So. If you yourself aren’t good at getting the truth, hire a detective. Myself I usually get at it pretty early under the guise of liking slutty girls, and wantting to hear stories. That’s not a lie, I do like them or some kinds.

    For some things.

    Like


  109. on August 27, 2009 at 4:36 pm some other guy

    Roissy is a gifted writer, author of one of the best blogs on the interwebs, almost certainly a well educated man, and an original thinker who is unafraid to combat cliche and common sense. Mystery, on the other hand, is a weak writer and not particulary well educated. He is also a genius, and, if the archives as fastseduction.com are to be believed, almost certainly underrated as a “Venusian Artist”, or whatever clownish phrase he applies to himself, and not overrated as many understandably mistakenly believe of such a self-promoter. Mystery originated a great deal of the ideas of contemporary pickup–most of the ideas?–and invented half of the fucking jargon we use today. So while I read Roissy and not Mystery–the nitty-gritty of pickup technique reads like an automobile manual–I think it’s important we give Mystery his due. Download one of his seminars to watch the guy in action. Go back five or ten years into the archives. You will find that Mystery was responsible for a burst of creativity comparable to what occurs in scientific revolutions. Roissy knows what I am talking about.

    Like


  110. Sofia–

    I feel that if he wants her to respect him in any way, he’s going to have to taper off on the philandering behavior as she gets older.

    Naaa. Not when he’s famous as he is. Maybe even not otherwise.

    What he has to do is treat his daughter’s mother with care and respect and even better with love.

    That’s fully possible while he’s catting around some.

    You could be right about having to taper it off some though. As a time management thing, etc.

    Like


  111. fyi for those interested, the relationship board at fastseduction.com has great stuff on integrating game into ltrs. although alot of questions posted there are repetitions on various themes by frustrated betas, there are a number of gurus who post extremely detailed and useful advice in response. esp. look thru the archives.

    Like


  112. A few generic but relevant questions:

    Why do you care about the distant future (beyond 10 years)? Does it matter? Can you predict it? What is the level of certainty for any prediction, given that we left the linear path about 200 years ago (and now the rate of change is increasing). Women are stuck in a stone age world, and do not want to change. Men, if anything, facilitate such behavior.

    Why do you want the “love” of a woman, when you know it is worthless (and economically ruinous)? Does the future of your kids really matter? Is there any chance that they will help you to any worthwhile extent?

    Would you buy a car that had a 10% chance of randomly exploding on you? But many of you are prepared to take a much higher risk for the right “woman” who could either be a good actor or a flaky bitch. Can any degree of game protect you from job loss, chronic illness or any other factor that would make the ‘love of your life’ bail out and ruin you?

    Would your wife or kids stand by you if you suffered a adverse life event? No amount of game or cleverness can protect you from the vagaries of chance (and we are ALL mortal). What is in for YOU? really..

    Like


  113. Fuck yeah, hoppy beer! Try DuClaw’s IPA’s. Anyway, I think the table service thing arose from Roissy describing bike messenger guy losing his chick to guys who could afford table service.

    But really, a hit piece? BotM guy needs to chill out. Roissy may be a wee Internet sensation and a stud around 14th St., but that’s a little overkill. In this new era, I guess all dissent has to be personally destroyed. It does remind me of a small internet fight that popped up a few years ago when some journo-beyatch went to a conservative dating web-site and quite unfairly tore apart the guys she met up with (one ugy wore a polo in a bar with important libs wearing suits…how awful!).

    Like


  114. “Babe my life is soooo busy right now but I can picture the two of us on the front porch of our retirement home watching the sunset together”. Little does she know that’s when he’ll join her and not until then. It’s enough for her for the moment and if he’s half as good as he says he is it’ll continue to work.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Yeah, I’m sure a Maxim model is going to be pining away on the front porch until then.

    Like


  115. Its contraception‘s fault.

    In 1968 Pope Paul VI made 4 predictions/prophecies about the consequences of contraception:

    1. “ this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards. Not much experience is needed to be fully aware of human weakness and to understand that human beings—and especially the young, who are so exposed to temptation—need incentives to keep the moral law
    Lowering of moral standards… Check

    2. “Another effect that gives cause for alarm is that a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection.
    Women are instruments to satisfy desires… women will be surrounded less with care… Check

    3. “Who will blame a government which in its attempt to resolve the problems affecting an entire country resorts to the same measures as are regarded as lawful by married people in the solution of a particular family difficulty? Who will prevent public authorities from favoring those contraceptive methods which they consider more effective?
    Some countries have had forced sterilations and abortions… Check

    4. “ unless we are willing that the responsibility of procreating life should be left to the arbitrary decision of men, we must accept that there are certain limits, beyond which it is wrong to go, to the power of man over his own body and its natural functions—limits, let it be said, which no one, whether as a private individual or as a public authority, can lawfully exceed. These limits are expressly imposed because of the reverence due to the whole human organism and its natural functions, in the light of the principles
    Test tube babies, killing old people… Check

    Like


  116. I agree with Doug1 on the slut shaming tactics. A womans past should be well known to all, its better for men to know the real deal for sure. Its in the interest of non slutty women also as men would know the sluts from the good catches instead of treating all women with mistrust and disrespect.

    Like


  117. Nonymous,

    The train has left that station many decades ago… it is not coming back.

    Like


  118. Mystery, on the other hand, is a weak writer and not particulary well educated.

    Mystery does seem decently well read in evolutionary psychology and has read a lot of self-help books. And some of the greatest geniuses in history from Confucius, Socrates, and Jesus in ancient times down to military theorist John Boyd in our own were more oral teachers than writers.

    Like


  119. Nonymous- contraception has allowed women to defy biology to peform dysfunctionally. You cant swing this one on men, a man sleeping around now is peforming just the same as he was 500 years ago, optimally and true to his biological design. Contraception hasn’t changed men or women innately, it’s just changed the way women can behave without becoming chronically pregnant, risking their lives and childrens lives etc

    Like


  120. Drogba,

    There is NO defined path for anything in this universe. It boils down to chance and probability, which is also the hardest concept to accept (for most people).

    Like


  121. I’m just saying people saw this was coming from a mile away.

    We can talk about birth rates and immigration like yesterday but lets face it, its about technology.

    Technology changes the way people interact. Look at the automobile, the telephone, the internet.

    Technology that changes human sexual organs will change human sexual interactions.

    Like


  122. The Roissy Revolution continues!

    Like


  123. Nonymous- That is true it will change the interations, but what it cannot change is the humans themselves, in other words pills can stop women from spitting out babies but they cant stop men hating sluts!! Because even if only subconsciously, men will view sluts as the same dysfunctional threat to their genetic legacies and themselves and offspring as they have been for tens of thousands of years.

    Like


  124. Women are instruments to satisfy desires… women will be surrounded less with care

    Pope Paul’s analysis, while prescient in some ways, is also a prime example of social conservative cluelessness. It was women’s sexual desires that drove the sexual revolution, not men’s. See here for my own take.

    Like


  125. on August 27, 2009 at 5:10 pm black military man

    You men need to stop enabling womens’ sexual revolution by refraining to sleep with them. The power rests with YOU.

    But it seems that you have a dysfunctional and very co-dependent relationship with such women.

    You both are feeding off of each other.

    Not healthy.

    Like


  126. Drogba,

    It won’t change humans, but it will kill those who cannot adapt. Frankly, I don’t care about the future of humans. It is not worth it..

    Like


  127. I hope Black Military Man is being sarcastic…

    If men and women were equally sexually frustrated, chaos would ensue. Female on male rape would be at an all time high.

    Like


  128. Thursday, I’ve only read 3 of Delvin’s articles on the subject. Do you have any more?

    I also want to know if you have read any of Dr. Lionel Tiger’s stuff. His “The Decline of Males” seems interesting but I haven’t had time to request the library ship it in yet.

    Like


  129. black military man- i respect this view and often practice it myself in some instances. However i feel men haven’t changed in recent times, i dont believe they are inherintly more predatory than before, they essentially have the same desires but i believe the breakdown of the family unit and womens liberation means fathers, brothers, uncles can no longer “look out” for their daughters effectively.

    Also, far from preventing sluttiness, i seek only discriminate and adjudge the sluts from more long term material. Let the sluts be sluts, just stamp their number on their heads so i know when to cut my losses(like before i waste any breath at all).

    Like


  130. Conor Friedersdorf seems absolutely fascinated with Roissy’s views, and with the PUA world in general. Read between the lines in his critiques of Roissy–there is a sense of excitement. Conor, welcome to the PUA world. Embrace these theories. They will set you free.

    [editor: a man barely alive. gentlemen, we can rebuild him. better than he was before. better, stronger, sexier.]

    Like


  131. Let friedersdorf stew in his own delusions… If he has not figured out the error of his ways by now, what makes you think he can change?

    Like


  132. Hmm…this is pretty interesting. There is a lot of things written about Mystery, but he felt compelled to respond to that post. I would agree that it sounds like a response he would have, it sounds authentic enough. Well keep up the good work Roissy…although the never ending comments can be tedious, your posts stay consistently solid.

    Like


  133. [editor: a man barely alive. gentlemen, we can rebuild him. better than he was before. better, stronger, sexier.]

    We can rebuild him, we have the technology.

    Like


  134. […] One of the most interesting and controversial PUA bloggers on the net, Roissy, recently got an email, which is allegedly from Mystery. […]

    Like


  135. Thursday — It was Roissy who articulated the contraception, anonymous urban living, and rising living standards FIRST as being the factors in women’s changing preference for men. I just followed his lead.

    Roissy was first.

    Re: Slut shaming? Impossible due to anonymous living. It will never happen, and women (see the posts at Amy Alkon’s, others regarding 83 partners) support “slutty behavior.” They in fact celebrate it, itself a telling indicator of women’s average partners in urban/suburban areas.

    Re: Mystery. He IS offputting to a lot of guys, based on his peacocking, nail polish, mascara, and other effeminate dressing modes that are no doubt effective in picking up women but scream “gay.” This is a huge barrier for Game. As for himself and Matador being able to fight? I doubt it. I can think of several “boring looking guys” who do poorly with women but are competitive martial artists (broken feet, hands, arms, legs in full-contact tournaments) who could easily kick both their asses. Fighting ability != picking up women.

    Like


  136. on August 27, 2009 at 5:54 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Doug1,

    Shaming worked when a fair number of women were virgins at the time of marriage, or at most had 1 or 2 serious partners pre-marriage. This was also when divorce rates were very low.

    But today, aside from the reality of being able to hide within an urban sea of people….

    If the average woman sleeps with 6 guys before age 30, while a ‘slut’ is someone who has slept with 20, I don’t see how shaming the one with 20 beaus down to a normalcy of 6 can be done.

    Shaming works when 0-1 partners pre-marriage was the norm, not when 6 is the norm and the target of shaming is someone of 10, 20, or more.

    Now, shaming in terms of being a predator/gold-digger from a track record of divorce-court, THAT certainly can be done, and is even more important than superficial promiscuity.

    Like


  137. Mystery was probably googling himself when he ran into Roissy’s post. He should know that too much googling leads to blindness.

    Like


  138. on August 27, 2009 at 5:58 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Nah…. forget about converting Fried-dork.

    The same amount of effort is better spent in bringing in 10 young college-age guys. That would be the most productive strategy to strengthen the agenda.

    Like


  139. Mystery is a fucking clown. A clown who trained himself to become the greatest pick-up artist in the world, and an indispensable asset to the PUA community…but a clown nonetheless. The over-peacocking, black nails and faggy goggles are just a bit too much, sorry. Any guy who wants to do well with women ought to go through Roissy’s archives and learn the body language and verbal tonality of an alpha male. Don Draper of Mad Men is a good visual aid.

    Like


  140. on August 27, 2009 at 6:19 pm black military man

    “I hope Black Military Man is being sarcastic…

    If men and women were equally sexually frustrated, chaos would ensue. Female on male rape would be at an all time high.”……………………

    I wasn’t being sarcastic, nor I am suggesting sexual frustration and chaos. Just good old fashioned marriage and waiting until. Ever heard of that?

    Like


  141. on August 27, 2009 at 6:25 pm black military man

    “Also, far from preventing sluttiness, i seek only discriminate and adjudge the sluts from more long term material. Let the sluts be sluts, just stamp their number on their heads so i know when to cut my losses(like before i waste any breath at all).”…………………………..

    Drogba, then what’s the difference between you and a “slut” who wants to have her “fun” and then settle down with a nice beta provider later on?

    You plan to do the same; have fun with the sluts and then find a nice beta girl to play house with.

    Pot, meet kettle….

    Like


  142. Before Mass-Flaming Measures of Black Military Man Ensue:

    Black Military Man, your perspective, which is often referred here as the “Social Conservative” perspective is generally seen to have failed within the Modern Date-&-Mate Playfield by the Roissysphere.

    It is not so much that abstinence and marriage have objectively failed, it is just that abstinence and marriage are seen to have failed enough in their duties of social cohesion, foundation and satisfaction that bloggers and commenters in the Roissysphere are discussing strategy and tactics of finding and obtaining desirable women as if it already has.

    For this reason, and the general nature of internet sub-cultural groups to dog-pile on outsiders who don’t in part concede to their basic tenets, you might want to consider listening to or at least not challenging the most fundamental values of the ‘God’s & Prophets’ of this realm rather than playing ‘Devil’s Advocate’.

    Just my advice.

    Like


  143. on August 27, 2009 at 6:30 pm The Fifth Horseman

    I agree that one of the wrong messages that Mystery (unintentionally) sends out is that you have to dress in a cartoonish, flamboyant, quasi-gay manner in order to master Game.

    In reality, you do not. You should always look good and alpha, but there are many acceptable ways that a 40 year old corporate middle manager can do this, without going anywhere near Mystery’s look.

    One good thing about Ross Jeffries was that he made it clear that looking like a geek was only a small obstacle, rather than an insurmountable one.

    Like


  144. Black Military Man,

    Oweing to the way the economy has restructured itself, waiting until marriage would mean waiting until you’re 30 for the average person. This is why losing your virginity on your wedding night was much more attainable 60 years ago, because women were getting married at 20 years old, and men slept with prostitutes until they were ready to settle down.

    Like


  145. on August 27, 2009 at 6:42 pm Black Military Man

    Ruby, thanks for the advice. I’ve been commenting here for a few weeks and realize all that you have said.

    As a black man with “natural game”, I was not abstinate until marriage, though that was an “ideal” in my conservative and church-going upbringing, espoused by my grandmother.

    As a military man who has travelled the world, I’ve had my fair share of women from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds, but probably low in numbers compared to today’s “players”.

    I was never a “player”. I never played with women or led them on. Nor did I disrespect them for engaging in the same type of behaviour I was engaging in (dating and sex).
    Nor have I ever felt threatened by a woman’s sexuality or displays thereof.

    Social conservative? In some ways yes, in some ways no.

    I just want my sons and daughters to be able to find decent and respectable people to marry.

    I’m hoping to find them nice Indian boys and girls and arrange their marriages (in a covert way, of course). Now that I have Indian people in my family I’m hoping that won’t be too hard.

    As you may know, the divorce rate in India is practically nil.

    Like


  146. And wtf is Sullivan doing publishing Conner’s shit?

    Fag bonding.

    Like


  147. Oh, they still do it now. And ferociously. Blogger Agnostic has some posts on how nasty high school girls can be towards each other in this area. It’s just that with urban anonymity post-high school, slut shaming isn’t very effective.

    In part, yes, but urban women are not inclined to slut shame to nearly the degree necessary to impact behavior. Urban anonymity does have a lot to do with it, I agree, but so does the complete abdication of responsibility in this area of older generations of women. Older generations of women traditionally did the lion’s share of slut shaming. Not so today. The older generations of women are often slut-encouraging, either in the books they write, the classes they teach, the TV and movie scripts they churn out and so on. Entire generations of women have been getting shit advice from older women for decades now, and almost no slut shaming.

    Like


  148. B.M. Man

    The standard Roissy-ite answer to a supposed “double standard” would be “Hell Yes !” Men and women are not the same, at all, in regard to sex.
    In a practical sense, though, it takes two parties to have a wait-till-marriage-relationship. The existence of a lonely, well intentioned guy looking for one is a much less than half of the components needed and by far the easiest to find.

    Like


  149. The older generations of women are often slut-encouraging, either in the books they write, the classes they teach, the TV and movie scripts they churn out and so on. Entire generations of women have been getting shit advice from older women for decades now, and almost no slut shaming.

    True that. I had a total lack of self-awareness when it came to sexual modesty. In fact, I felt pressured to become sexually experienced. I would say 40-50% of the girls I went to high school with, were sexually active, and actively promoted getting higher “numbers.” I thought something must have been horribly prudish about me to not participate in such a large extent of what was going on. Thanks to Sex and the City, and the larger stereotype of the sexually liberated urban female, this sort of behavior is becoming more prevalent. These are the women girls look up to because they’re presented as successful, stylish, and sassy.

    The problem is the alternative is inherently viewed as becoming a Mennonite, covering your bodies head to toe, and returning to a preceding generation. If being more sexually selected was reframed in a modern light, the situation would be a whole lot different.

    Like


  150. You can save a lot of time, energy, and money by going to escorts.

    Then you don’t even have to deal with all of this bullshit.

    Life is short.

    Like


  151. on August 27, 2009 at 7:03 pm No way that's Mystery

    That email reads like a mean-spirited (not that there’s anything wrong with that) parody of Mystery. It’s fake.

    Motive of the hoaxer? Malice toward Mystery and his gang. Just look at the embarrassing stuff that is confirmed or at least re-hashed in the email. Matador DOES wear a wig! Uh, yeah, it would be so like Mystery to dis his wing like that.

    Mystery’s passionate enemies probably number in the hundreds or thousands. And any competing commercial PUA would view damage to Mystery as good for them. And some people just like fucking with people.

    Suspect #1 would be the commenter who posted the speculative dirt in the first place. (Compare IP addresses if possible.)

    Roissy got used.

    [editor: when i posted it i realized it might be a troll. but if it’s trollery, it was well executed and entertaining, so i decided to throw it out there for the amusement of the masses. anyhow, i don’t think the email reflects badly on mystery, if it is him. he comes across a bit scattershot, which he is, but also charismatic and protective of his kid.]

    Like


  152. on August 27, 2009 at 7:06 pm Black Military Man

    Rum, men and women are really NOT that different when it comes to sexuality. Especially when, like Sofia mentioned, people do not marry or LTR until 30 these days. Back in the old days and even now in rural areas of India people marry as teens and get their sexual cravings satiated.

    Amongst the small town, urban and suburban Indians you can find MANY 30 year old virgins amongst both men and women, because they are also marrying later and later, although 30 is pushing it for marriage in India.

    Some (not all) of these men and women are so sexually frustrated they are like walking time bombs.

    So to expect American women, with all of their freedom and mobility to not have sex “like men” in their 20s when they are just as horny as young men, but to wait until 30 when they “settle down” is expecting to get blood from a turnip.

    I expect my kids to wait, but then I plan on having them all married by 24 at the latest. Let’s see if my covert plans fructify.

    Like


  153. on August 27, 2009 at 7:08 pm Cannon's Canon

    i challenge matador to a squatting contest. i will press him through the floor.

    ooooo i just threw down the gauntlet!

    Like


  154. The problem is the alternative is inherently viewed as becoming a Mennonite, covering your bodies head to toe, and returning to a preceding generation. If being more sexually selected was reframed in a modern light, the situation would be a whole lot different.

    Yeah that’s where older women are supposed to pop up and give mentoring type advice to younger ones. But that isn’t happening.

    It certainly is not going to be the case that the popular culture and media, in general, begin to support being more sexually restrained for women. It all points in the other direction: sex as female empowerment. There was a post over at Josh’s blog today about how a female “help” columnist was saying that infidelity for women is empowering and so on. As long as women are telling each other these things, the slutting, cheating culture will continue to grow.

    Like


  155. funny to see the bunch of douchebag faghags that have wandered over here from that buttfucking queer sullivan’s site.

    why o why do i find the company of women intolerable? cf. almost every female comment outside some regulars

    Like


  156. Novaseeker,

    I’m not sure the problem has gotten so out of hand that female cheating on men has become justified, and “normal”. Sexual promiscuity is certainly normal these days.

    I was telling a woman a few years older than me (she’s 26) about my worst relationship experience with a man, who turned out to be a huge womanizer that only wanted sex. And she replies, “Really? Because I’d actually just prefer sleeping around than being committed to one man. I’ve learned with experience that it’s the best route to go. I suggest you do the same rather than get emotionally involved.”

    Like


  157. on August 27, 2009 at 7:31 pm The Fifth Horseman

    I still don’t buy that Dana is a woman – that would be in the ‘too good to be true’ category. What woman (let alone a 60 year old woman) says ‘nuke the pussy from orbit’ and ‘buttfucking queer’?

    No woman has such unashamed clarity of logic….

    Like


  158. lol im not 60 i’m 39 for a couple more weeks.

    i swear i am a woman–i’ve just always been a “man’s woman”

    buttfucking queer is from team america.

    Like


  159. Dana is a “cool” 39 year old woman! Dana, are you going to be a “cool” mom?

    Like


  160. Roissy: “I still think Dakota is a stripper’s name, though.”
    === Not saying Mystery and his lady were necessarily at case, but celebrity can cause a name to become more popular.
    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0266824/
    Anyway, it’s not like they named her Bambi.

    Slightly off-topic, but I read a credible story once about how child names go through a cycle wherein they’re popular with the upper crust, then the lower class copies them in great numbers and the upper crust stops using them. Examples: Brittany, Heather.

    Black Military Man “Americans have been shameless for too many decades now to reverse the trend.”
    === Only if past trends were to continue. Most people don’t yet realize that this isn’t a “deep recession,” it’s a paradigm change. The depression that’s recently begun will end up with the USD being gutted, which will impoverish the present middle class (foreigners will stop accepting paper for their commodities and manufactured goods). When the whole family’s under one roof, the whole family’s looking very hard at who the girls are courting (I’ve lived in a traditional culture, girls are completely paranoid about their repurations). Of course the lower class will keep on doing their thing, but they’ll be on the edge of literal stravation.

    The Fifth Horseman “there are many acceptable ways that a 40 year old corporate middle manager can do this, without going anywhere near Mystery’s look”
    === Are you saying a corporate executive should *not* paint his nails black, where high-heeled black boots and a worn soft dark tall hat???

    Like


  161. Sophia’s friend advised – “Really? Because I’d actually just prefer sleeping around than being committed to one man. I’ve learned with experience that it’s the best route to go. I suggest you do the same rather than get emotionally involved.”

    I’d say she’s an outlier. I’m pretty sure most women aren’t able to separate emotion from sex easily (POF exception). We’d like to think we can be like men in this regard however we’re incapable. Don’t fool yourself. The article below backs me up. I didn’t wade through the ton of other supporting docs. but don’t believe me google for yourself.

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/51369/emotionfree_sex.html?cat=41

    Quote from link:
    Casual dating can only go on for so long with the same man before it takes on the hues of a real relationship, and casual sex carries all the pitfalls of feeling shamed, rejected, and undesirable – when he doesn’t call (and most of the time, he won’t).

    Like


  162. If Dana WERE a guy I’d have a crush. Just sayin…

    Like


  163. Me: (I’ve lived in a traditional culture, girls are completely paranoid about their repurations). Of course the lower class will keep on doing their thing, but they’ll be on the edge of literal stravation.
    === Nothing is worse for your repuration than stravation.

    Like


  164. sofia,

    i’m hoping i still have that option, but i’m realistic. i’ve definitely found the man with whom i hope to assortively mate and produce a child with aspergers lol

    i had a “cool” mom. i was allowed to smoke, be punk rock–she actually dressed me like i was her little Becki Bondage Barbie Doll, sleep over with boys, stay out all weekend. it led to me spending approximately 10 years living a dissolute alternative clubbing druggy whore lifestyle. i’m pretty sure it helped me become a “character”, but i’m not sure being a character is worth it. i think i would have been better off being a nerd and marrying another nice nerd in college and homeschooling up some nice high g nerd kids. if that’s what you mean by cool mom, i don’t think so 🙂

    Like


  165. assortative?

    Like


  166. on August 27, 2009 at 7:52 pm The Fifth Horseman

    === Are you saying a corporate executive should *not* paint his nails black, where high-heeled black boots and a worn soft dark tall hat???

    Well…..DUH!!!!

    But that 40-y/o Corporate Exec can still use Game to improve HIS life, in a manner consistent with HIS goals, in many different ways.

    Like


  167. @aoefe,

    Don’t fool yourself. The article below backs me up. I didn’t wade through the ton of other supporting docs. but don’t believe me google for yourself.</blockquote

    There *were no* supporting documents. Don't fool yourself: you don't know the difference between a writer who desires to see her opinion "published" at a self-pub site and a peer reviewed journal.

    Like


  168. black military man- you are correct, but then again i am an above average attractiveness and intelligence male. I can have it all. Alas it means a lot of women want to trick me, and most of them would rather lie about their escapades then simply fuck less men in the first place.

    Like


  169. on August 27, 2009 at 8:01 pm Cannon's Canon

    i named my ‘fantasy premier league’ team “drogba few cosbies off at the pool”

    Like


  170. I think its also important to note, that second to fucking them, telling them to fuck off is the second most pleasurable thing to do to a slut(and possibly women in general).

    I find it funny how feminists argue their right not to be shamed by men for sleeping with lots of….well men. Why would you sleep around with with the same people who judge you for such actions and then complain about it? Lesbian feminists make more sense to me and even they should shut up and fuck off.

    Like


  171. on August 27, 2009 at 8:05 pm Black Military Man

    “Why would you sleep around with with the same people who judge you for such actions and then complain about it? ”

    I pose the same question to you!

    Like


  172. canon- i named mine….Chelsea…haha die hard fan.

    I was quite dissapointed when i first found out Didier Drogba was married with 3 kids, i’d have thought he’d be picking up honeys this way and that. But then again maybe he does….

    Like


  173. on August 27, 2009 at 8:16 pm Cannon's Canon

    i think that any further comments pertaining to fantasy sports require a “no beta” addendum… just to be clear

    last year my team was named “hot cesc on a platter,” no beta

    Like


  174. Anon you were right I posted a link to an article, I was aware it was making my point from a woman’s point of view. That said there are many links to research, here are but a couple:

    http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/597158or full article

    http://www.sauder.ubc.ca/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Marketing1&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=32109

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080625092023.htm

    Like


  175. the phrase “willingness to emote” sounds very mystery-like to me. in fact, i think i’ve heard him say that.

    also, if it was someone white-knighting for mystery, they had a somewhat cool demeanor about it which is probably in contrast to the usually hate emails you’d get in response to something like this.

    Like


  176. http://www.newscred.com/author/show/name/conor-friedersdorf

    he has only one discred

    is that you roissy?

    Like


  177. Damn- blogger just got smacked.

    Like


  178. on August 27, 2009 at 8:52 pm Virginia Gentleman

    Bah, how appropriate that the above post actually contained an HTML error. Don Draper, assuming that he knew HTML, would not have made such an error.

    Cue Pete Campbell.

    Like


  179. Fifth Horsemen

    If the average woman sleeps with 6 guys before age 30, while a ’slut’ is someone who has slept with 20, I don’t see how shaming the one with 20 beaus down to a normalcy of 6 can be done.

    Shaming works when 0-1 partners pre-marriage was the norm, not when 6 is the norm and the target of shaming is someone of 10, 20, or more.

    Who attractive men will and won’t marry is still a powerful force.

    As I said before, and as Roissy has, urban anonymity cuts against this. But not in a way that can’t be deciphered, if/when men set their minds to this, in a mutual support, talking out loud about the issues, sort of way. I.e. the sort of way we do here. I’ve given one method. Hire a PI detective to investigate your fiance’s sluttery or not. Or maybe just before the engagement stage. Another might be some net date bases of slut experiences. Truth (or opinion stated as such, or a mixture that’s truthfully presented) is an absolute defense in America to libel charges, even against more protect non public figures.

    However, if this really caught on, count on feminist to lobby for law changes, if/when lawsuits under current law and it’s judge made extensions failed.

    But it would be worth someone getting going. Combined with a decent legal primer for contributors whose anonymity may not hold up against angry early targets, as to how to likely avoid successful libel lawsuit attack. This would be even better if some rich bio conservative(s) set up an early cases legal defense fund.

    Like


  180. aoefe

    If Dana WERE a guy I’d have a crush. Just sayin…

    If Dana weren’t so THOROUGHLY married, so would I.

    Like


  181. Who attractive men will and won’t marry is still a powerful force.

    As I said before, and as Roissy has, urban anonymity cuts against this. But not in a way that can’t be deciphered, if/when men set their minds to this, in a mutual support, talking out loud about the issues, sort of way. I.e. the sort of way we do here. I’ve given one method. Hire a PI detective to investigate your fiance’s sluttery or not. Or maybe just before the engagement stage. Another might be some net date bases of slut experiences. Truth (or opinion stated as such, or a mixture that’s truthfully presented) is an absolute defense in America to libel charges, even against more protect non public figures.

    However, if this really caught on, count on feminist to lobby for law changes, if/when lawsuits under current law and it’s judge made extensions failed.

    But it would be worth someone getting going. Combined with a decent legal primer for contributors whose anonymity may not hold up against angry early targets, as to how to likely avoid successful libel lawsuit attack. This would be even better if some rich bio conservative(s) set up an early cases legal defense fund.

    You’re right, Doug. My pragmatic view is that most men do not do investigations and also do not pry into history (there is a lot of “reverse shaming” directed at men who pry into history, to wit: you’re insecure, you’re worried you don’t match up, you’re worried you have a smaller dick, and so on), and marry girls with slut histories who never give up being sluts, cheat on their husbands ,and cash them out. As you say so well often yourself, the law supports them in this.

    Like


  182. Ruby

    3rd Wave Feminists have been trying to distance themselves with the Radical Feminism of Andrea Dworkin but are still very hostile to Men’s Rights and “Game”.

    The principal systemic difference between 2nd and 3rd wave feminists is that the largely gen X or playing to them 3rd wavers rejected the developing anti male penetrative sex messages that more extreme aging boomer feminists such as (the unabashedly and openly Marxist) Catherine MacKinnon and the repulsive pig like lesbian Andrea Dworkin were espousing. Aging boomer feminist follower women were willing to shrug at, so glad were they to damp down permisson for continuing sexual promiscuity, that was looking like benefiting their 40s boomer husbands in the early 90s than their 40s selves.

    Meanwhile 3rd wave feminists still wanted to be rad and male bashing in many ways, but they wanted to enjoy sex with alpha males from the position of their by then utterly secured educational, work, and cultural empowerment. Hell yeah they wanted to be able to rape men in divorce and child support=alimony; all female power initiatives were good and lets have more of them. It’s just that they wanted women to feel free to enjoy their huge empowerment any way they saw fit. Including by being a stay at home lazy mom well after the kids were in school, get bored with their hard working long hours upper middle class husband, begin fucking their private trainer or pool boy, and then dare their husband to divorce them and have to pay more than half his accumated wealth none of which she contributed much of anything to, child support=alimony, and since the oughts increasingly alimony on top of all that so that regardless of her marital fault, she still has as much money lying around on her lazy ass post divorce, or more than he does, the hard and long working hours sucka.

    As close to her marital level of income as possible, regardless of her cheating, and screw him, is the current feminist push. I kid you not. Check it.

    Like


  183. on August 27, 2009 at 9:29 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Doug1,

    Men need to have a ‘dontdatehim.com’ equivalent site, like women have.

    What is odd is that no entrepreneur has merely copied this idea, AND that the original site has apparently not chosen to double their market by putting bad women up there too (although I haven’t checked).

    However, if this really caught on, count on feminist to lobby for law changes, if/when lawsuits under current law and it’s judge made extensions failed.

    Agreed. But I really think the misandrists are going to take this too far, and spread themselves too thin, in coming years. I have determined in the last week that the strongest unwitting pillar of feminOrc strength is social cons, who would gladly throw men under the bus just to avoid the dreaded ‘shaming language’ that feminists know is super-effective against social cons. But as socialcons weaken, feminism will indirectly weaken as well.

    To the extent that there is feminist ‘Game’, shaming language is it. And it works on Betas, and double-works on social cons and SWPL manginas (those 2 groups are converging).

    But if more men coconut up and become impervious to shaming language, that is half the battle won right there.

    Like


  184. on August 27, 2009 at 9:31 pm BMM black military man

    By the way, I just saw the commercial for the new ABC series “Cougar Town” premiering September 23.

    Like


  185. Nova

    (there is a lot of “reverse shaming” directed at men who pry into history, to wit: you’re insecure, you’re worried you don’t match up, you’re worried you have a smaller dick, and so on)

    Of course there is but men should take that head on and stand up to it.

    1) yes I’m insecure about being divorced in female divorce theft America with it’s 50% divorce rate 70% or almost 2.5 to 1 initiated by women, and more than that effectively wanted by them (e.g. moving out; refusing to stop love adultery). Women even more overwhelmingly initiate divorce when minor children are in the home.

    2) For a slut who’s had serious double digit numbers of lovers, few men will both be a great long term life partner and the best sexual partner she’s ever had. Women in fact if not in their retelling emotionally weigh how strong the sexual bonding is in comparison to the best they ever had, even when the best was from an absolute impossible to live with much less marry asshole. Such men literally do ruin sluts for marriage, especially if she’s had a number of them. Yeah, there are some alpha amazing all around winners who will be not only an incredible life partner sex but the best sex she’s ever had among her 60, but come on. Not very likely, to say the least, with any particular serious slut. Particularly since that amazing good guy alpha will have his pick and REALLY not want anyone who might have been a slut.

    3) re: smaller dick. See 2 above.

    Hope that helps some guys at least.

    Like


  186. I think men who investigate also likely to be labelled along the lines of stalker-y/obsessive/controlling/paranoid even if they’re having a relationship.

    Of course try the low cost alternatives like checking her stuff, computer, so on. Although it would be an alarm bell to me if you had a relationship where she wouldn’t give you full access if even surprise asked anyway.

    A lot of information is there for you, if you care to look.
    So, for any betas, remove the rosy-hued glasses first or you’ll never find out anything about any woman. You need to deal with the human being in front of you, not the pedestal.

    Like


  187. I think it will help some, Doug. And I agree with what you said there.

    Like


  188. Honestly, how many women have made either made any implications or expressed direct dissatisfaction with a man’s penis size? I think this one is a myth.

    Chuck similarly discussed on his blog “foreskin shame”. I think men are more self-conscious about their foreskins than women care.

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  189. Bhetti

    I think men who investigate also likely to be labelled along the lines of stalker-y/obsessive/controlling/paranoid even if they’re having a relationship.

    No, Bhetti, that stuff is solid gold in court — especially if she pulls the “he was abusive” trump card. A woman who can be definitively proven to be a whore will not be as likely to be believed when she starts spouting the typical lies about “abuse.”

    And given female infidelity rates (over 50% in all marriages), it’s a good bet that a husband will reel something in if a marriage starts to go south.

    Therefore, investigating the wife is simply common sense. If you catch her so much as flirting online, time to serve the bitch with papers and be done with her. After all, women who flirt online are the most indiscriminate types of whores. None are worse than these sluts.

    Like


  190. on August 27, 2009 at 9:54 pm BMM black military man

    “Honestly, how many women have made either made any implications or expressed direct dissatisfaction with a man’s penis size? I think this one is a myth”………………..

    Black women do! In fact, why do you think BET shows those “Extenze” commercials so much?

    Maybe non-black women are used to and satisfied with less, but black women practically DEMAND more. That’s the primary reason why they are relunctant to date outside the race, they think they will get the short end of the stick, so to speak.

    But I do know some black women who appear happily married to non-black men, so either they made their men call that 1-800-extenz number or their men know how to really work with what they got.

    Like


  191. Welmer

    Therefore, investigating the wife is simply common sense. If you catch her so much as flirting online, time to serve the bitch with papers and be done with her. After all, women who flirt online are the most indiscriminate types of whores. None are worse than these sluts.

    I don’t agree with this.

    Well I don’t and i do.

    Yeah it should cause a man to pay attention and check her.

    But some freedom to flirt is also in order.

    That makes women feel so much sexier.

    Hey, when as a committed couple we go out with friends, or are at a party, with both flirt with attractive members of the opposite sex. I encourage my M to do that. Within limits. To a point.

    It’s really good to be ahead of your woman here, and pushing her to dress sexy in an elegant way to get some attention, and so on. Where she always wants to be sure it’s not too much and you approve. That’s the right side fo the line and curve to be on.

    Flirting really energies both sexes but especially our loved bitches. Just have limits. Make sure she’s worried that you still approve.

    Then it’s all good.

    Like


  192. “I highly recommend that all the new and befuddled readers who are coming from sites like Larry Auster’s and who seem to fall on the traditional conservative (read: beta) side of the ideological spectrum get up to speed by reading Mystery’s seminal work on the science and art of game. You may also want to read Magic Bullets by Savoy. Then maybe you’ll be equipped to discuss matters for which you seem to have zero understanding to date.”

    How can traditionalists have zero understanding of game when it has been consistently defined as a tool and nothing more? Knowing this, their criticism thereof is all the more pertinent. Game, in and of itself, cannot spare the West from decline. As per Ferdinand Bardamu, “attempting to replace traditionalism with game is like trying to replace a car with a fuel injector. Game’s utility to traditionalism is as a part of it – it cannot take its place because it is not a complete ideology.” Novaseeker likewise says “This is, of course, correct — “Game” is not a systemic worldview, nor is it intended to build one, or replace one.” Mangan repeats this: “Admittedly, game could never provide the material for saving the West.” In short, this indicates that game ALONE cannot serve the purpose of the biocons, which is what had been hitherto conveyed by apologists of game. It is still left to them to find game’s utility to the overarching traditionalism.

    Like


  193. Black Military Man,

    My bad. I don’t watch much T.V., but I can only imagine what a commercial advertising something calls “Extenze” involves…

    For the most part, I don’t think woman care too much at all, even if you’re slightly below average in terms of length and girth. (Girth counts more anyway.) Unless, you’re one of those freaks with an extra ‘X’ chromosome, then an issue definitely presents itself.

    This might be different in the black female community, thanks to the hype concerning black male anatomy. But, really now, have you heard of any specific instances involving your friends or people you know, in which a woman expressed or alluded to disappointment with their member?

    Like


  194. Virginia Gentleman:

    There’s no doubt that most guys will have little luck in acquiring (on a daily basis no less) Draper’s perfectly coiffed hair and impeccably tailored outfits. No harm in at least attempting to adapt some of his basic mannerisms and communication style, though. Like you said, the other ‘alpha’ alternative is the preening Ed Hardy douchebag type, and one is infinitely more attractive (and less soul-killing) than the other.

    Funny that you mention Pete Campbell. I suppose the danger here is trying much too hard to be like Draper and turning out more like Campbell :0

    Like


  195. Roissy is a notable character because of his writing on the greater implications of game and the sexual/feminist revolution. His work in this field is second-to-none. PUA stuff is a dime a dozen and that goes for Mystery’s and Roissy’s work on the subject. But Roissy has really added to society with his big picture stuff. Thus he wins. End of story.

    Like


  196. In Response to Black Military Man:

    If I may ask, what uniformed service are you a part of and what specialty? I understand if you would like to preserve all aspects of your anonymity here, so please don’t feel pressured to answer.

    Now, on the subject of penis size and its relation to black culture:

    From anecdotal and personal experience it seems those men and women who are obsessed with the penis size of black men tend to be insecure racists who are not-so-subtly hung up [no pun intended] on the subject of supposed black virility and physical prowess and insecure reverse-racists who are likewise not-so-subtly and very-disturbingly endeared to Thug/Goon/Gangsta Rap Culture and the “Black Sexual Satyr” stereotype; Itself being a hold-over from Jim Crow and “Birth of a Nation” days.

    The latter group seem to be composed significantly of what we might easily be able to describe as lower-middle class and outright lower class black and white women, black gay male “Size Queens” and older white women who tend to date black men exclusively for self-esteem and positive-perceptual reasons. [I am doing my best to avoid inflammatory language when describing these respective archetypes, but feel free to read between the lines to their most base descriptions. It shouldn’t be too hard.]

    For this reason, also being a black man myself, I tend to take all-too-quick inquiries of my ‘size’ by women who are interested in me as an absolute red flag.

    And if similar women were to criticize me in any way of not living up to these stereotypes, I’d follow the advice Roissy gave in a previous thread: Dump them.

    Like


  197. Nova

    Doug1: Yeah, there are some alpha amazing all around winners who will be not only an incredible life partner sex but the best sex she’s ever had among her 60, but come on. Not very likely, to say the least, with any particular serious slut. Particularly since that amazing good guy alpha will have his pick and REALLY not want anyone who might have been a slut.

    I should add that a large part of what that apex good guy alpha will instinctively or perhaps a bit more consciously reject sluts, especially since he has his pick even when the slut is a real hottie, is that he knows that his chances of being able to not just be her best, but totally blow her mind (that is her emotions) are greatly attenuated. As in it’s not likely to happen. Though she might very well want to pretend it has because he’s like her best deal ever and she knows it.

    Sluts lose the ability to seriously bond.

    What exactly constitutes a slut is best defined as the combination of number and kinds of sexual experiences that cause this bond (aka genuine love or adoration) deadening to occur.

    That’s all.

    Like


  198. on August 27, 2009 at 10:31 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Posec,

    We have been over this. Not only are your statements claims that people here are not making, but this topic of yours is also boring as shit.

    The total failure of socialcons in even noticing, let alone thwarting, the extreme anti-male/anti-family divorce law machinery that has created perverse incentive structures and ruined families and decent men in the last couple of decades, is really the coup de gras on any remaining claim to socialcon relevance or credibility. This is no less of a miss than if an astronomer failed to learn about the existence of the Moon.

    No group has been such a 100% failure in achieving its stated goals as social cons. Socialcons are not only uninterested in supporting the aspirations and challenges of the average man, but will happily throw him under the bus rather than experience the dreaded ‘shaming language’ that feminists know they can use to subdue and manipulate social cons. Larry Auster should be called an ‘Auster-alopithecus’ as someone mentioned, for that is how extinct and surpassed his species, and the ecosystem it sprung from, is. If Game instructors were to create a caricature of exactly what a man should NOT be, then they should look no further than Conor FriederDork.

    That is the epitaph of socialcon ideology. May it rest in the dustbin of history, amongst the used condoms of GamesMen.

    The End.

    Like


  199. Well, at least the social cons weren’t actively undermining the societal basis of marriage and family like the libertarians and fiscal cons.

    Like


  200. PA said:

    “It’s imposible to overestimate a guys’ protective instincts when his child is involved. You’re ready to kill or die like a crazed fanatic the moment someone fucks with your kid.”

    Yes. This is totally true for me and where I differ with some of the posts here where (presumably younger) dudes talk about knocking up a chick and it’s “her kid” and child support sucks etc… Although I do not dispute that there’s a lot of unfair shit biased against men w.r.t. child support basically amounting to alimony the concept of “her kid” is what irks me – or actually baffles me. Kids need a good dad.

    Like


  201. on August 27, 2009 at 10:44 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Well, at least the social cons weren’t actively undermining the societal basis of marriage and family like the libertarians and fiscal cons.

    Au contraire, they were. Even now, they are condemning Game, mainly because they are deathly afraid of confronting feminists. That shaming language works very well on socialcons.

    Your sentence alone shows how weak and irrelevant socialcons are. Where is the leadership? Where are the compelling ideas? There are none.

    Socialcons who disapprove of Game will never, ever admit that Game’s emergence is directly a result of socialcons being a total failure (or worse) at preserving the basic aspirations of the average, law-abiding, respectable man.

    I see that no socialcon can actually explain how the average man could possibly want to associate with them. What it in it for the average man? What?

    Like


  202. “We have been over this. Not only are your statements claims that people here are not making, but this topic of yours is also boring as shit.”

    So boring that you have felt the need to weigh in on various threads ruminating about it? So boring that it drives you to gleefully belabor how superannuated traditionalists are and stressing the vaunted “self-actualization” of GamesMen who occupy “exclusively the province of Outside the Box Thinkers”. Yes, this topic must have no bearing on you.

    Indeed, no one here made any claims explicitly stating that it was the duty of GamesMen to impede the decline of Western Civilization but Roissy misapprehends the nature of the ongoing discourse between traditionalists and biocons. It concerns the biocons only. They are the ones who perceive game as the cure to the West’s ills and therefore it is incumbent on them to make a cogent case for this position.

    Like


  203. Even now, they are condemning Game, mainly because they are deathly afraid of confronting feminists.

    Yeah, Larry Auster, who has openly questioned whether women should be allowed to vote, is deathly afraid of feminist shaming language.

    Sure, whatever you say, man.

    Like


  204. on August 27, 2009 at 11:02 pm Virginia Gentleman

    Posec:

    I’m still decidedly in the dark with regards to what a biocon is (buyer in the ordinary course of nihilism?) but I’m not so sure that visible players on either side of the issue have “accepted” the notion that game theory is merely a tool. I utterly refuse to dig back through various blogs and their archives to find this, but I think I’m on solid ground here.

    Somewhere (maybe at Mangan’s) one comment thread contained a couple of people, Horseman included, that crowed about the defeat of social conservatism and its subsequent replacement by whatever theories they were espousing. Auster et al seized on this, especially since Horseman seems intent on consigning us to the ash heap of history.

    Meanwhile, any effort by some quarters on the Roissy side to point out the concept of game theory as a thing to be wielded, not a unified theory of the world, went unnoticed or unaccepted by Auster et al. Rather, Auster et al continued to hammer the wrong target, focusing on the statements by the people who believe, wrongly, that running game on a woman is somehow a conclusive repudiation and replacement of the social conservative platform.

    I never got around to writing Mr. Auster—thanks for doing so, PA!—but it was considerably annoying to see the Eight Day War being fought over “biocons r00l, socons dr00l” and “the purpose of game theory is to notch up the bedpost”.

    As I think I’ve said before, the utility of game theory is as a means to an end. Those of us on the social conservative side of the aisle need a little better arsenal than sitting back and, as the old song says, “Wishing and hoping”, asking Mr. Sandman to bring us a dream. The utility of it is that it enables good men, who might otherwise be shut out since they’re not a flatbiller, to get a wife and hopefully start building a long-term nuclear family. We’re not going to get the next generation of social conservatives from abiogenesis, after all.

    We can count ourselves lucky that the elites of the other side are generally just at or below replacement level; however, they seem to have control of the culture and are excellent at sophisticated equivalents of brainwashing. Meanwhile, their foot soldiers seem to be just fine at doing like Pringles and making more. It is therefore in our interest to get the production lines ramped up and running.

    It is likewise irritating to see a lot of the responses from Auster et al boil down to, “You’re just a bunch of losers who can’t get laid”. That sort of “analysis” is the province of the left.

    Like


  205. on August 27, 2009 at 11:03 pm William of OC

    WTF are black guys doing on this site?! Blacks have their own such sites. Go spread your STDs and sexual myths somewhere else. Why would they want to be here? Just asking.

    Like


  206. on August 27, 2009 at 11:05 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Posec,

    nature of the ongoing discourse between traditionalists and biocons.

    What is a traditionalist? Someone who considers the 19th and 20th centuries as tradition (socialccons), or someone who considers all of human history before the 18th century as ‘tradition’, based on biological realities of male/female interaction.

    It would appear that Game follows a tradition that is older, and lasted for much longer, than the 200-year aberration that socialcons consider to be some bedrock ‘tradition’.

    It seems that the 200-year period that socialcons have made central to their being was merely a passing fad in human history, and that the pre-18th century norm has been restored after that blip/fad.

    So socialcons are the fad-chasers, and GamesMen are the real traditionalists, recognizing the reality of what human existence was for most of human history before the socialcon fad.

    Prove otherwise.

    Like


  207. Posec

    I have respect for the place from which you coming. However, game is more important than mere gimmick.
    The outbreak of excessive whipped nice guy personas in the West has been compared to the obesity epidemic, especially in respect of women. Let us be honest, too much fat on a woman and guys instincts kick in such that no one with choices even wants to start down the path that leads to commitment. Hard wired.
    But there are figures in the “Fat Acceptance” movement who will advise, “Single women should lard up as much as they feel like because if a man loves you for who you are inside he will not care.”
    This is, of course, completely insane. But it is no different than SoComs telling men, “Just go on being a decent, maybe awkward, well intentioned guy on the inside and a worthy woman will see those good qualities and want to fuck you. Really want to, not just to get your stuff thru marriage.”
    This does not seem insane to many men. But the first analogy does not seem insane to many women, either. But they both are equally insane because men and women are different in what makes for attraction. Proceeding as it it were otherwise will not save Western Civ.
    If women keep getting fatter very little serious marrying is going to happen unless guys are equally bloated at their hottest years.
    Likewise, very few guys who send increasingly stupid and wrong signals to young women are going to end up in a stable family with a fertile woman.
    The answer is not in shaming or encouraging anyone. There are too strong of instinctual headwinds too overcome to make progress that way.
    No. Saving the West will require young women to stay in better shape and for young guys to get in touch with their inner Conan the Barbarian.

    Like


  208. on August 27, 2009 at 11:08 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Yeah, Larry Auster, who has openly questioned whether women should be allowed to vote, is deathly afraid of feminist shaming language.

    That is pretty misogynistic of the Auster-alopithecus, then. All the world’s democracies and developed countries allow women to vote. Most of us here don’t question that. No wonder he is a no-name that the GOP steers wide and clear of.

    Yes, he is deathly afraid of feminist shaming language. As are you.

    Again, why should any young man be drawn to your ‘ideology’? What is in it for him, relative to better life choices, like Game?

    I see that you have no answer.

    Like


  209. black military guy:

    “But I do know some black women who appear happily married to non-black men, so either they made their men call that 1-800-extenz number or their men know how to really work with what they got.”

    or, just possibly, their non-black man is packing some meat.

    you know who i feel worse for out of anyone in the whole penis shame game: bigassblackdudeswithsmallskinnydicks.

    they are beholden to the same stigma, but if they can’t stack up they are punished more, in terms of disappointment from partners, than a man from another race who is in line or slightly less than his race’s average.

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  210. In short, this indicates that game ALONE cannot serve the purpose of the biocons, which is what had been hitherto conveyed by apologists of game. It is still left to them to find game’s utility to the overarching traditionalism

    Alone, no. Some endgame idea needs to be with it. Is that traditionalism? Maybe. But you need to make the case. Please do so here or at my place. I am more open minded than you may think. This is, after all, a silent revolution.

    Like


  211. Mystery still didn’t explain how she got pregnant…hm…intentional or entrapment?

    Like


  212. It is likewise irritating to see a lot of the responses from Auster et al boil down to, “You’re just a bunch of losers who can’t get laid”. That sort of “analysis” is the province of the left.

    He’s kinda a prick. I sent him some notes. Not firebrand bullshit, you all know me. But the first he miunderstood, and when I called him on it and rephrased it, he dismissed and did not publish. Second one had no reply and did not publish. He seems like an aloof arrogant ass. Sorry, just how I see him.

    In general there seems to be a lack of interest in dialogue. If that happens, it only hastens their demise. We are the future and they are the failed past.

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  213. on August 27, 2009 at 11:25 pm Virginia Gentleman

    The Fifth Horseman:

    It seems that the 200-year period that socialcons have made central to their being was merely a passing fad in human history, and that the pre-18th century norm has been restored after that blip/fad.

    Given the kinds of achievements in science, technology and all other things that your “passing fad” produced, I’ll take it.

    At the end of the day, I’d rather live in a civilization centered on the American nuclear family who could gather ’round the television to watch NASA reaching beyond lunar orbit. Whether you would is a separate inquiry; I suspect that you would not.

    Like


  214. “I’m still decidedly in the dark with regards to what a biocon is (buyer in the ordinary course of nihilism?)”–Virginia Gentlemen

    I would define a biocon as one who is conversant in HBD and who also holds to conservative thought–nothing nihilistic about that. The former, however, does not derive from the latter; the science is but a collection of facts not an ideology. If everyone in the world read up on HBD, I doubt they would all unanimously glean the selfsame political thinking. There could be such a creature as a ‘bio-radical’ or arrive at nihilistic conclusions.

    “It is likewise irritating to see a lot of the responses from Auster et al boil down to, “You’re just a bunch of losers who can’t get laid”. That sort of “analysis” is the province of the left.”

    Quite right–as far as the left is concerned, such arguments are despicable. But I think the traditionalist reservation about game is that, as Novaseeker admits, there is a great temptation for biocons to abandon the conservatism to which they hold. Not intentionally, mind you, but, having mastered game and met the need for a LTR, is satisfied and disengages from activism.

    Like


  215. The Fifth Horseman:

    That [Auster has questioned if women should have the right to vote] is pretty misogynistic of the Auster-alopithecus, then. All the world’s democracies and developed countries allow women to vote. Most of us here don’t question that. No wonder he is a no-name that the GOP steers wide and clear of.

    Yes, he is deathly afraid of feminist shaming language. As are you.

    Good Lord. You accuse people of being “afraid of feminist shaming language,” but as soon as you’re faced with a position that actually questions the basic tenets of feminism, you immediately start parroting feminist invective and shaming language yourself. This is beyond self-parody.

    Like


  216. on August 27, 2009 at 11:42 pm The Fifth Horseman

    At the end of the day, I’d rather live in a civilization centered on the American nuclear family who could gather ’round the television to watch NASA reaching beyond lunar orbit.

    Too bad those who valued that could not preserve that. In fact, feminists sliced through socialcon ‘tradition’ like a blowtorch through butter.

    Again, the 2 questions that socialcons are too cowardly to answer are :

    1) Define what ‘Game’ is, as per your understanding of it.

    2) Explain why any young man should listen to you at all. What do you offer him of any value? Why were you so oblivious to, and even tacitly in approval of feminists making the divorce laws extremely anti-male after 1990? Why should a young man give you the time of day?

    If social cons would man up, they could answer these questions.

    Like


  217. on August 27, 2009 at 11:45 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Vladimir,

    What? If Lawrence Auster says Game is misogynistic, but the same man says women should not have the right to vote (even though every functioning democracy in the world has equal voting rights for men and women), then HE is the projecting hypocrite.

    Questioning feminism, vs. rescinding the female vote are very, VERY far apart. A lot of the women here oppose misandry. None of these women deserve to have their vote revoked (nor is that even possible).

    I think you are getting thrown off by the double and triple negatives.

    Like


  218. “Alone, no. Some endgame idea needs to be with it. Is that traditionalism? Maybe. But you need to make the case. Please do so here or at my place. I am more open minded than you may think. This is, after all, a silent revolution.”

    It has been my intention all along to make such a case. It will be difficult, but I will essay to make it nonetheless. There needs to be an endgame. Thus far we have only begun to roll the dice.

    Like


  219. This is beyond self-parody.

    I know. This is Wendy Schwartz level stupidity and self-contradiction. Sometimes you just can’t make this shit up.

    Like


  220. Thursday — Au contraire, social cons WERE mostly complicit in the great feminist remakes of marriage and divorce laws, mostly because social cons draw a lot from the Enlightenment, and can and do share much of the same assumptions about how women need “protecting” from “bad men” … so we have no-fault divorce, palimony, no social shaming of women treating marriage and family as disposable, not duty to children first, and so on. By contrast, fiscal conservatives by pumping up real wages and economic activity boost the economic prospects of what Sailer dubbed “affordable family formation” which requires wage increases and low to no inflation.

    Virginia Gentlemen’s comments have been illuminating and very to the point. I see he too has experienced the Ed Hardy / Flatbiller phenomena. I’m not a fan of Mad Men, but the idea of suits and dress is appealing. Not the least of it is that pretty much anyone can look good in them. I too would rather live in the 1950’s America to reaching lunar orbit. We had a future back then. Now it’s like an episode of Max Headroom that never ends.

    Like


  221. I guess we should stop feeding the troll.

    Like


  222. Whiskey:

    I explain here how libertarians and fiscal conservatives are directly responsible for the mess we are in.

    Like


  223. It has been my intention all along to make such a case. It will be difficult, but I will essay to make it nonetheless. There needs to be an endgame. Thus far we have only begun to roll the dice.

    You’re up to it. I await your essay, with expectations.

    Like


  224. Fifth Horseman–

    Questioning feminism, vs. rescinding the female vote are very, VERY far apart. A lot of the women here oppose misandry. None of these women deserve to have their vote revoked (nor is that even possible).

    Thinker inside the box, apparently.

    Ummm. Use your imagination.

    Not without a military coup.

    Now weather that’s worth the downsides is another question. As is acknowledging that men aren’t remotely there yet for that. But we don’t need women there for that technically, and in terms of men’s emotions, we sure don’t need anything close to a majority of women there for that.

    After all, men ruling women in part through military supremacy is the natural order of the bio and especially cultural and historical (post literacy in high civ places) evolution of our species.

    Like


  225. mostly complicit in the great feminist remakes of marriage and divorce laws

    I don’t know of any social cons who were ever in favor of no-fault divorce. Furthermore, in a lot of places they pressed for “covenant” marriages as an option. Not a lot of support from libertarians and fiscal cons on those.

    Like


  226. on August 28, 2009 at 12:10 am The Fifth Horseman

    I see Thursday cannot man up and answer the two simple questions that are frequently posed to him.

    1) Define what ‘Game’ is, as per your understanding of it.

    2) Explain why any young man should listen to socialcons at all. What do you offer him of any value? Why were you so oblivious to, and even tacitly in approval of feminists making the divorce laws extremely anti-male after 1990? Why should a young man give you the time of day?

    *crickets chirping*

    Like


  227. The Fifth Horseman:

    What? If Lawrence Auster says Game is misogynistic, but the same man says women should not have the right to vote (even though every functioning democracy in the world has equal voting rights for men and women), then HE is the projecting hypocrite.

    Questioning feminism, vs. rescinding the female vote are very, VERY far apart. A lot of the women here oppose misandry. None of these women deserve to have their vote revoked (nor is that even possible).

    I think you are getting thrown off by the double and triple negatives.

    Your problem is that you view the world from a naive post-WW2 ideological perspective, and in your naivete, you believe that “feminism” is something that just suddenly struck out of the blue in the 1960s. Thus, you hold any triumph of feminism before that as sacred and righteous, as a victory of justice and common sense over bigotry and evil, and you deny that a sensible person could even begin to question it. In fact, you’re reluctant to even use the word “feminism” for anything that happened much earlier.

    Yet, the reality is different. Our civilization has existed for much longer than a few decades, and unlike what your PC-influenced view of history suggests, people living in past ages weren’t just deluded bigots when their positions were radically at odds with the modern PC sensibilities. A century ago, there was a controversy over whether women should vote, and it was resolved decisively in favor of the feminist side. Subsequent generations of feminists have smeared their former opponents, now dead and unable to speak for themselves, as sheer malevolent bigots, and they’ve largely succeeded at that, as well as in censoring any discussion of whether female suffrage has ultimately turned out to be a good idea — your reactions being a prime example.

    Ultimately, for all his faults, Auster comes off light years ahead of you intellectually because he understands this, and you don’t.

    (By the way, you might be interested to know that the reactionary hellhole known as Switzerland allowed female suffrage at the federal level only in 1971 — and some Swiss cantons have allowed it only since the early 1990s.)

    Like


  228. on August 28, 2009 at 12:18 am Virginia Gentleman

    Horseman:

    1. I can only speak for myself since it appears that I’m out in my own corner: It’s a useful device that can be put to profitable employment in the service of my interests, namely the attraction and securing of a valuable woman with which to continue building (rebuilding?) society through the nuclear family and re-knitting the social fabric.

    It is towards that end that I’m interested in the concepts behind and application of game theory. Ignoring valuable tools to increase one’s results, especially in as nasty a struggle as we’re in, would probably constitute unilateral disarmament, and I’m rather opposed to that. Like I said before, I want the John B. Thayers of the world to get the girl, not Bruce Ismay; furthermore, I want the girl to be something other than Carrie Bradshaw.

    Continuing with the NASA theme, I want both the Mercury Seven and the guys at Mission Control to have access to affordable family formation. To adapt Tom Wolfe, “No betas, no Buck Rogers”.

    2. Why should any man listen? If done right, we build a civilization where an honest and decent man can get a good wife and assemble a family, without having to resort to Ed Hardy flatbillerism. It’s a world where a man can have a valuable place in society, regardless of whether he works for Goldman Sachs or for the local Gold’s Gym franchise.

    In a sentence, my sales pitch looks something like this: “Their plan denies you access to women for meaningful marriage, gives them near unlimited access to those same women and delivers societal stagnation.” Correlation isn’t necessarily causation but it sure looks like it when we consider that all the neat stuff of the late 20th century happened before the New Order was imposed.

    As for 1990, I neither held elective office nor any other position of authority or influence. Your constant harping against that might be relevant were that not nearly fifteen to twenty years ago. I for one wouldn’t mind making no-fault divorce a thing of the past—I’ll accept a drop in the raw quantity of marriages if it’s coupled with an increase in the quality of those that are actually entered into.

    Furthermore, I’ve got nothing against enforcement of child support laws when a) the child actually is the product of, or the adopted child of, the father before the court and b) the ordered payments are actually used for the support of the child; Lord knows that they’ll probably need it.

    Like


  229. on August 28, 2009 at 12:21 am The Fifth Horseman

    Vladimir,

    and unlike what your PC-influenced view of history suggests,

    er… project much? My knowledge of history is vastly more than yours, that I guarantee.

    Your problem is that you view the world from a naive post-WW2 ideological

    Again, a strawman based on no evidence. My knowledge of world history surpasses yours by a lot. Simply see my other comments here, even just in the last 24 hours.

    Auster comes off light years ahead of you intellectually because he understands this, and you don’t.

    If you are such a big fan of the depth of Auster’s intellect, then why is he utterly incapable of grasping Game?

    Roissy said this :
    I highly recommend that all the new and befuddled readers who are coming from sites like Larry Auster’s and who seem to fall on the traditional conservative (read: beta) side of the ideological spectrum

    What is your answer to that?

    Like


  230. In fairness to the SoCons, there wasn’t much they could do about the pill, and ever increasing wage parity between men and women, to give just two examples.

    Like


  231. on August 28, 2009 at 12:23 am The Fifth Horseman

    Thursday continues to be a coward in the Auster-alopithecus vein, by not answering the simplest of questions :

    1) Define what ‘Game’ is, as per your understanding of it.

    2) Explain why any young man should listen to socialcons at all. What do you offer him of any value? Why were you so oblivious to, and even tacitly in approval of feminists making the divorce laws extremely anti-male after 1990? Why should a young man give you the time of day?
    ______________________

    The troll is you. I have been a regular here for a long time, and most assuredly not a troll.

    You are lower in Maslow’s hierarchy than people who study Game. This does not exempt you from the basic requirement to be a man and answer simple questions.

    No wonder social cons are such a shambolic laughingstock.

    Like


  232. on August 28, 2009 at 12:27 am The Fifth Horseman

    Virginia Gentleman,

    You are certainly not a socialcon in the lefto/mangina mold that Thursday, Todd White, and Vladimir are.

    This is why you understood Game. Also, why you had the courage to answer the questions that Thursday is terribly afraid/incapable of doing.

    Surely you can see that socialcons have been a large part of the problem, and have done a tremendous disservice to the average man. Socialcons of their ilk not only have no solutions, but don’t even see the need to offer solutions. Note how their blogs either don’t allow comments, or are heavily moderated.

    They are becoming more a part of the left, than of the right.

    Like


  233. pos equis:
    How can traditionalists have zero understanding of game when it has been consistently defined as a tool and nothing more?

    in the realm of psychosexuality, the tool encapsulates the philosophy.

    Knowing this, their criticism thereof is all the more pertinent. Game, in and of itself, cannot spare the West from decline.

    let’s stipulate that game gives a larger pool of men increased options in the sexual market. maybe not a lot more options, but for the average beta chump having the ability to sleep with one extra woman per year, and to do it with a woman one point higher on the mate value scale than he’s accustomed to, is a huge deal. suddenly our game-playing formerly beta chump finds himself not sticking it out with a girl who gets fat, or a girl who belittles him, or a girl who is older than him. he finds it easier to cut and run when things don’t go his way. what effect will this power shift have on the sexual landscape? well, it isn’t a stretch to surmise that women in the fat part of the attractiveness bell curve are gonna find themselves having to work just a little bit harder to keep their boyfriends, and experience a little more often the indignity of getting pumped and dumped when they attempt the risky brass ring grabbing maneuver of the ol’ alpha cock carousel lifestyle in hopes one of those alphas will stick around.
    so you ask “how can this save the west?”. if women can experience sexual satisfaction with a greater number of men, thanks to game, then the divorce industry suffers a blow. the female obesity juggernaut slows. even, possibly, the sluts stop stealing the show.
    or: save the betas, save the world.

    Novaseeker likewise says “This is, of course, correct — “Game” is not a systemic worldview, nor is it intended to build one, or replace one.”

    it might be helpful to replace the word “game” with “seduction”. or seduction science. i think game throws people off.
    anyhow, game is applied wisdom. it’s foundation is in deep, abiding truth. when it sloughs off the foundation, it becomes less effective. thus was born the field report.

    Mangan repeats this: “Admittedly, game could never provide the material for saving the West.”

    you got a better idea?

    In short, this indicates that game ALONE cannot serve the purpose of the biocons, which is what had been hitherto conveyed by apologists of game. It is still left to them to find game’s utility to the overarching traditionalism.

    another possibility is that game cause men to delay or avoid the raw deal that is marriage in such droves that the powers that be are forced by the disintegratoin all around them to reconsider the entire feminist project.

    Like


  234. Virginia Gentleman
    That reference to Bruce Ismay cannot be improved upon as as an example of your intended point.
    I know who he was, but I am in some ways a freak. Most people nowadays do not, I bet. But the example is still perfect.

    Like


  235. on August 28, 2009 at 12:30 am The Fifth Horseman

    In fairness to the SoCons, there wasn’t much they could do about the pill, and ever increasing wage parity between men and women, to give just two examples.

    The pill is a minor factor.

    I am talking about the divorce laws, which subject everyone to very leftist principles. Even a pre-nup between two consenting adults can be overriden in favor of the leftist-tilted law.

    But socialcons, in not even noticing this, let alone thwarting it, missed the forest from the trees in the most extreme of ways. Hence, they have proved themselves unworthy of being taken seriously. They are utterly empty as an ideology, and the lack of interest young men take in them speaks volumes (whereas a socon like Thursday cowers in silence when faced with simple questions that require an answer more complex than ‘because God said so’).

    Like


  236. Titanic dude right?

    Like


  237. on August 28, 2009 at 12:37 am The Fifth Horseman

    Virginia Gentleman,

    b) the ordered payments are actually used for the support of the child;

    No one opposes that. But that is now how it currently is. Child support has been increased to become a huge percentage of a man’s income, because it has an alimony component. Plus, to get the most money, the woman has an incentive to seek full custody, severing the relationship between father and child.

    Doug1 can tell you more about how child support = alimony. A trojan horse that uses the child as a moral club to give the wife a free ride (where she does not have to prove anything about how the money was spent).

    As far as 1990, that is a copout. You could certainly campaign now to get laws revised. Plus, 1990 was just when things got extreme. It has continually been revised since then, even in the last few years, to become even more anti-father, under a continuous ‘deadbeat dad’ campaign based on misrepresentation.

    Like


  238. “Mangan repeats this: “Admittedly, game could never provide the material for saving the West.”

    you got a better idea?”

    Game is merely an adaptation us men must make to make up for the deficits we’re suffering in other areas. There’s no reversing the trends that have already taken root in our culture. Men have to adopt Game or risk being left behind. After Game, some other shoe will drop that men will have to adapt to as well.

    Like


  239. some other guy:
    So while I read Roissy and not Mystery–the nitty-gritty of pickup technique reads like an automobile manual–I think it’s important we give Mystery his due. Download one of his seminars to watch the guy in action. Go back five or ten years into the archives. You will find that Mystery was responsible for a burst of creativity comparable to what occurs in scientific revolutions. Roissy knows what I am talking about.

    i do. and i agree. i remember reading those fledgling mystery posts on the fastseduction forum and saying to myself at the time “this guy is onto something”.

    Like


  240. horseman:
    The pill is a minor factor.

    widespread, cheap, and easily obtainable contraceptives are a recent change in how men and women relate to each other sexually. to think this has not had a radical impact on human behavior and even the trajectory of evolution is folly.

    Like


  241. “it might be helpful to replace the word “game” with “seduction”. or seduction science. i think game throws people off.
    anyhow, game is applied wisdom. it’s foundation is in deep, abiding truth. when it sloughs off the foundation, it becomes less effective. thus was born the field report.”

    At Novaseeker’s, I had suggested ‘bildung’, which can encapsulate both education and character (in this case, the rebuilding of the masculinity that was lost), but he deemed it too pretentious. And it very well may be, but at least it does not connote chicanery and frivolity as ‘game’ seems to for those who come across it in passing.

    “you got a better idea?”
    I would advocate a profound and punctilious study of history which could prove a revival of conservatism. It may seem like so much navel-gazing but historical ignorance is so rampant and so conducive to leftism that it demands remedy.

    Like


  242. I would advocate a profound and punctilious study of history which could prove a revival of conservatism.

    you’ll have an easier time getting david alexander laid with a 10 sporting 6 inch serrated acrylic nails. and no i’m not joking.

    Like


  243. Thursday:

    We have another tokyo beta grist/Wendy Schwartz on our hands. Best to leave well enough alone.

    Yeah, now I also see that he’s best left alone. He’s latched onto a few more or less valid insights, but he’s blissfully clueless that he’s got a whole lot more to learn before he can discuss these topics knowledgeably. Right now he’s trying to be smartass with what little he knows, and it’s futile to even try to snap him out of it.

    Like


  244. A study of history and how we got where we are would be wonderful.

    It would be wonderful if I won the lottery as well.

    Not gonna happen unfortunately.

    Like


  245. “I would advocate a profound and punctilious study of history which could prove a revival of conservatism.”

    “you’ll have an easier time getting david alexander laid with a 10 sporting 6 inch serrated acrylic nails. and no i’m not joking.”

    Why does it seem so implausible?

    Like


  246. Uh, Roissy beat me to it. In a slightly more clever way as well. heh

    Like


  247. posec,
    most people can’t locate South Dakota on a map. Most people can’t pick the vice president out of a line up.

    The majority of people have no interest in history or current events for that matter.

    Like


  248. on August 28, 2009 at 1:01 am Comment_Whatever

    Fifth Horseman said:

    Even now, they are condemning Game, mainly because they are deathly afraid of confronting feminists.

    Thursday said:

    Yeah, Larry Auster, who has openly questioned whether women should be allowed to vote, is deathly afraid of feminist shaming language.

    Sure, whatever you say, man.

    Larry Auster doesn’t like woman’s MORAL authority being questioned… and that is what Game attacks.

    Clearly, there is a limited distinction between Moral Authority and Political Authority… but women did have Moral Authority before Political Authority in American culture. And clearly those can be two different things.

    In fact, their gaining of Political Authority was often pushed in terms of their superior Morals.

    Like


  249. but women did have Moral Authority before Political Authority in American culture.

    it’s intriguing to speculate whether moral and political authority are mutually antagonistic. was it a coincidence that in the era when women had little political authority they wielded greater moral authority, and vice versa for the present?
    i think not, because moral authority rests in no small measure on self-administered wool-pulling. political authority undermines and exposes the pretty lies that are the lifeblood of moral authority, lays them out stark naked bare, and ridicules them, because the incentives to do so mount in reaction to the hypocrisy that must accompany any power aggrandizement by a formerly coddled constituency.

    Like


  250. “most people can’t locate South Dakota on a map. Most people can’t pick the vice president out of a line up. The majority of people have no interest in history or current events for that matter.”

    True enough, Gants. But if all scholarship was contingent upon the approbation of the masses, Western Civ. would have perished aborning.

    Like


  251. on August 28, 2009 at 1:38 am The Fifth Horseman

    Vladimir,

    but he’s blissfully clueless that he’s got a whole lot more to learn before he can discuss these topics knowledgeably.

    er…. this from someone who is not capable of even defining what Game is?

    You are not man enough to answer two simple questions, are you? I didn’t think so. You can go join Thursday in the whipped-Beta corner whispering “Eek! I hope they don’t keep asking us questions!!”

    Avoiding simple questions, and then doing some weak pseudo-intellectual posturing about ‘we know more than the Game community does’ merely advertises your intellectual emptiness.

    Like


  252. “Avoiding simple questions, and then doing some weak pseudo-intellectual posturing about ‘we know more than the Game community does’ merely advertises your intellectual emptiness.”

    A neocon like yourself dares bray about pseudo-intellectual posturing?

    Like


  253. on August 28, 2009 at 1:54 am The Fifth Horseman

    Posec,

    Weak non-sequiter. Answer the two questions. Thursday and Vladimir have already been disposed of. Now let’s see if you can be an adult :

    1) Define what ‘Game’ is, as per your understanding of it.

    2) Explain why any young man should listen to socialcons in this day and age. What do you offer him of any value? Why were you so oblivious to, and even tacitly in approval of feminists making the divorce laws extremely anti-male after 1990?

    I hope you have a more realistic answer than : “I would advocate a profound and punctilious study of history which could prove a revival of conservatism. “

    Like


  254. Roissy said:
    “this [Mystery] guy is onto something”.

    Mystery was indeed onto something. I know for a fact that he is not only respected by young men trying to be PUAs but also the academic intellectual leaders of psychology. Yes, he is a bit silly but then again he was a magician. I am astounded by how intelligent and articulate this man was and how deep his insights were.

    Like


  255. Roissy,

    unrelated, but more alpha science for ya:

    ” Too much testosterone disrupts family life ”

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17692-too-much-testosterone-disrupts-family-life.html

    Like


  256. Non-sequitur, you mean? Well, my comment is actually apposite but I’ll suspend that for the moment.

    1.) Game is a tool, no more and no less. It comes with no instruction manual for how to operate it. People can use it for either LTRs or illimitable flings. It does not give the strict imperative for one or the other. It is not as if everyone on the planet, having studied the science behind it, will automatically become a prudent fiscal conservative (or even a neocon). Biocons who practice game, in order to adhere to their conservative predilections, perforce must subsume itself within a larger conservative framework.
    2). Why should a youth listen to traditionalists? Here is a scenario: let’s suppose a youth has mastered game, became an avatar of alpha, and have used his craft to maintain sundry salutary relationships. But then what? Those feminist laws and other banes for betas have not vanished. They are still entrenched in political orthodoxy. Will you ‘game’ the laws away? No, something additional is required. Traditionalists have all the wisdom of the past at their disposal. Can you afford to overlook them? Insist that they are irrelevant all you like but consider this: Just as game has not been falsified by feminist society, so too has the Traditionalist thinking not been buried by liberalism.

    Like


  257. You come off as beta in your response to Mystery’s email.

    Of course, since you think the hierarchy only concerns who can fuck the most women, you may not care that you are knuckling under to another man (who told you that you were not worthy to be pounded through the floor).

    A friendly warning: Your position in the male dominance hierarchy is related to your attractiveness to women. Keep it in mind.

    Like


  258. Thursday — I stand corrected, you are quite right. Libertarians and fiscal conservatives DID NOT emphasize the role of wife and mother, when it might have mattered some. Though I suspect that it probably would not have mattered.

    Josh Xiong’s site (excellent read, highly recommended) which can be found at Ferdinand Bardamu’s site (trying to avoid link approval hell) has a bit on a feminist psychologist extolling female affairs.

    To bring in Virginia Gentlemen’s point, I don’t think it’s possible for even a “nice” girl to be something other than Carrie Bradshaw, given the social embrace by women, including as Novaseeker points out, older women, of affairs and high partner counts. That’s just the way it is. What Game does, on the margins, is make the Beta guy able to either constantly Game his wife, to avoid affairs (which society will encourage) or simply avoid marriage and cohabitate from one gal to the next, giving women “at-will” employment contracts back at them … ready to be dumped at a moment’s notice.

    I think the latter is where we are going socially.

    Like


  259. Auster is a fucking Hebrew.

    There’s nothing to debate regarding him, unless it pertains to gassing that fucker.

    Auster is the grandson of a crazed murderous immigrant Jewess.

    He’s a kike blowhard who should be jammed head first into a smoldering oven.

    Like


  260. on August 28, 2009 at 4:09 am msexceptiontotherule

    Now if this whole mess isn’t a very real temptation for me to go do what can be done through options thanks to my lovely employer(s), I don’t know what is. (reminding self that it’s bad to use that sort of power for such things, and even if it were perceived as action taken by the two idiots who ride my coattails, which would probably at the very least, get them some much deserved disciplinary action, it would still be wrong and a poor use of time during the workday. As much as I would enjoy doing it…dammit..)

    Like


  261. YKW says, “Shaming women and preventing them from slutting it up would do a lot more to help Western civilization than the game solution of nihilism and self-destruction.”

    Actually, while doing some research on the growing trend of modesty in France, I’m finding out something very interesting.

    Shaming does work, but not the way you might think. According to people who live there, what is driving women in France is not the church or conservative guys talking about values…It’s the sight of old saggy boobs and slutty tourists. Young French women now see going topless on the beach and wearing skimpy clothing as something desperate, low class, and old women do.

    Like


  262. j.d.

    You know who: nonsense, game is essential to a good relationship.

    my fiance and I have talked about this on several occasions, and she sometimes reads Roissy’s new posts with me. She agrees that being an alpha is essential to a good relationship, which requires spittin’ game.

    While anecdotal, I can think of 14 different marriages (both friends and family) that suffer because the guy has become a bystander, a beta, a provider in the relationship.

    Sounds like your fiance is low quality.

    Sofia

    OR if she’s ruled by her biological engineering and instinctively responds to it. Since it has been established that ALL women respond to game, I don’t see how your point stands.

    “But I can’t help being an obnoxious slut, evolution made me this way!

    No, it did not. Humans are not exclusively ruled by crude biological programming. If they were, we’d be banging rocks together in some forest, not using the Internet.

    As for all women responding to game, who exactly has gone through every woman in the world and confirmed this? PUAs have an enormous selection bias going on anyway.

    black military man

    Drogba, then what’s the difference between you and a “slut” who wants to have her “fun” and then settle down with a nice beta provider later on?

    You plan to do the same; have fun with the sluts and then find a nice beta girl to play house with.

    Pot, meet kettle….

    This is a double standard and contradiction that PUAs have not been able to resolve, because it can’t be resolved. If you sleep around, you cannot complain when women do the same. Period.

    The Fifth Horseman

    2) Explain why any young man should listen to socialcons in this day and age. What do you offer him of any value? Why were you so oblivious to, and even tacitly in approval of feminists making the divorce laws extremely anti-male after 1990?

    “Well gosh, since these socialcons here didn’t save the world back in the day, I guess we should just go full steam ahead with nihilism and self-destruction! I’m glad we have this convinient after-the-fact justification for our actions.”

    whiskey

    What Game does, on the margins, is make the Beta guy able to either constantly Game his wife, to avoid affairs (which society will encourage)

    If you have to actively dominate and manipulate her to prevent her from cheating on you, what the hell is the point of being married to her? She shouldn’t even be thinking about cheating.

    Like


  263. The only people who accuse men of being insecure because they care about sexual history are women who are insecure about their history. Everyone gets insecure about a variety of things, many irrelevant to sex and relationships, men are not and should not feel they need to be immune to this.

    However I would argue that actually a mans interest in sexual history comes from a place of security. Many men these days are simply greatful for any attention they get from a half attractive woman, possibly due to lack of game or attractiveness and do not seriously consider the quality of their woman. It is these men who are insecure. They will cling to, love and respect their woman irrespective of her actions past and present. A man who would seek to judge and evaluate a woman for her past is actually very secure, the inner game required to be confident, to believe….to KNOW that you can do better. That is very secure.

    Like


  264. The only people who accuse men of being insecure because they care about sexual history are women who are insecure about their history. Everyone gets insecure about a variety of things, many irrelevant to sex and relationships, men are not and should not feel they need to be immune to this.

    However I would argue that actually a mans interest in sexual history comes from a place of security. Many men these days are simply greatful for any attention they get from a half attractive woman, possibly due to lack of game or attractiveness and do not seriously consider the quality of their woman. It is these men who are insecure. They will cling to, love and respect their woman irrespective of her actions past and present. A man who would seek to judge and evaluate a woman for her past is actually very secure, the inner game required to be confident, to believe….to KNOW that you can do better. That is very secure.

    Like


  265. Fifth Horseman, Thursday recently stated what his definition of game is:

    “Game is the systematic study of what attracts women to men and the application of that knowledge towards finding a mate.”

    I thought that was an excellent definition. So how can social conservatives object to this? Is a man supposed to just wait for a woman to fall into his lap? If he is allowed to do something about it, then he needs some tactics, which is what game is.

    I have posted before about the conceptual distinction between tactics and strategy:
    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/08/04/a-quick-and-dirty-all-purpose-opener/#comment-114330

    Game-hating social conservatives may be confusing tactics and strategy. I can understand them having a problem with pursuing a short-term mating strategy. Even some game tactics I can understand them objecting to. But not the concept of game itself when it is used to find and keep a long-term mate. It has been pointed out so many times that game is just a tool that can be used either way. If they still don’t get this and think game is inherently evil, then there is no point in debating them.

    Remember that women are perfectly free to choose all the short-term mating they want. If men get that choice, will they automatically choose promiscuity? Especially if they are good Christians and so on, won’t they have the free will to choose?

    Which brings me to a medieval argument for learning game that perhaps even the most antisexual fundamentalist SOCONS can relate to. Andreas Capellanus, after explaining his game theory at great length, says:

    “Read this little book, then, not as one seeking to take up the life of a lover, but that, invigorated by the theory and trained to excite the minds of women to love, you may, by refraining from so doing, win an eternal reward from God. For God is more pleased with a man who is able to sin and does not, than with a man who has no opportunity to sin.”

    So there you have it. Even monks should learn game. 🙂

    Like


  266. BMM and you know who- I dont want sluts to stop sleeping around, i want them to be more easily idenitfiable, and will seek to use the best of my skills to weed the sluts from the long term material. Even if the average number of partners for women continues increasing, i will always seek to find the least slutty of the women, just as i would seek to date the most attractive of women available to me.

    Like


  267. Arpagus

    It has been pointed out so many times that game is just a tool that can be used either way.

    I’ve never seen any indication of this.

    Like


  268. on August 28, 2009 at 5:48 am You Know I'm Right

    If conservatives want to start taking back The West, they are going to have to start breaking some leftist/Marxist/NAM heads again in order to put that uppity pondscum back in their rightful subordinate place.

    In order to come to power and hang on to it in Eastern Europe, the Judeocommunists literally killed tens of millions of people both directly and indirectly. I’m not condoning that behavior, but it was effective in forcing people in to accepting a new regime. Similarly, the ‘anti-racist’ liberal ‘Allies’ of WWII killed millions of ‘Axis’ soldiers and citizens only to force upon them the pathetic legacy of a ‘anti-racist’ ‘progressivism.’ It’s rapidly approaching the point of payback for these two egregious transgressions against White-Western civilization.

    Everything worthwhile has always been borne of force. The weak slimeballs that most Americans are these days bespeaks of a declining populace in which the vital lifeforce and instinct for racial survival is slowly draining away – thus it must be revived via a trial by fire.

    Like


  269. You Know I’m Right

    Similarly, the ‘anti-racist’ liberal ‘Allies’ of WWII killed millions of ‘Axis’ soldiers and citizens only to force upon them the pathetic legacy of a ‘anti-racist’ ‘progressivism.’

    You’ve got your history mixed up. The US was hardly gung-ho about anti-racism in the 1940s like it is now. Even so, they figured that mass murdering millions and millions of people for essentially no reason was not a cool thing to do. Clearly you disagree.

    Like


  270. TJF:

    Sounds like your fiance is low quality.

    I would wager that his fiance is substantially higher quality than your hand.

    Like


  271. someone said:

    “social cons and SWPL manginas (those 2 groups are converging).”

    case in point, Rod “Yech” Dreher, le Crunchy Con

    social cons of that stripe are nothing but a bunch of Ned Flanderses

    socons, like leftists, are ultimately platonic–they believe words and concepts are real and have actual power to alter reality–they believe changing the names of things changes there nature–you can see this clearly in the way Austeria consistently chooses a special pet name for the straw men he constructs that is NOT what the adherents to the actual belief systems he opposes call themselves. this is why feminist shaming language is effective against them irrespective of the blatant ACTIONS of feminism in destroying western civ.

    they also believe they can control human behavior by writing specific laws against unwanted behaviors while leaving the actual INCENTIVES for the behavior untouched, cf. the sole method by which socons want to fight the “drug problem”–criminalization. that this has not only been a singular failure in controlling drug use, but has also made the sale of drugs so wildly profitable that it inevitably rises is of no interest to them. its the wordssss the sweet soothing words “we are good! we make bad things illegal! we careeee!”

    consequently, socons believe that by simply telling women its wrong to have babies out of wedlock and maybe making them go to church, the whole problem will stop even though ALL of the indirect incentives to bastardy remain in place–child support, divorce theft, food stamps etc. they can’t seem to see the deep systematic nonverbal causes of human behavior.

    because they have cause and effect backwards. out of wedlock birth was wrong and shameful because it led to a child with no man to protect and support, this threw the burden of the child on her already likely poor family, i mean it was the malthusian trap for christs sake–who can afford another mouth to feed! the CONSEQUENCES (potential starvation and burden) antedate the SHAMING. socons ALWAYS buck at BRINGING BACK THE CONSEQUENCES that would lead to the shame and the ACTUAL change BACK to the “traditions” they think they want.

    thats why ive always argued that libertarianism is the only way back to traditional morality–only libertarianism would throw people back onto their own devices in dealing with the consequences of their actions. would it be legal to be a drug addict? sure–no government money, rehab, housing etc for you though. go be a drug addict and die. can ya have a baby without a husband? sure! no food stamps, no female affirmative action to get a nice pink collar job with maternity leave and “health care”, no public schools–go for it! have that baby.

    but in the end, soft weak christian conservatives (and note, women have a BIG voice in the CC sphere) are too gentlehearted to let people suffer through the actual return to the traditions they seek–so they just blather on in righteous indignation and cluck their tongues while western civ commits ideological suicide. great

    Like


  272. on August 28, 2009 at 8:24 am snatch magnet

    Would Mystery really use an Emoticon to describe how ‘fabulous’ his hair is?

    Check this turd for as a Candidate for Beta of the Month/Year/Decade.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1209451/Cheating-husband-wear-I-cheated-sign-wife.html

    Like


  273. On the Topic of Game’s Role in Re-Vitalizing the West:

    It seems to be generally accepted by most Trend Pundits, Sociologists and Historians I know and know of that the only way the West will be truly ‘revitalized’ will be through the catharsis of a new culture after a major world-changing event [Civilization-Wide Disaster or Achievement] or changing of hegemonic reigns within the West.

    Such a culture would most likely be so Libertarian as to allow various sub-cultural or regional groups to flourish in lieu of the weakening quasi-national identity the U.S. has now amongst its populace or so neo-traditionalist [socially conservative] as to ensure a stable social, cultural and sexual field of interaction for at least a few generations.

    Realizing this, I tend to liken “Game” as a somewhat innovative sandbagging effort by various groups of First Responders to the rising tide of the rapid degradation of western civilization. Some heed the call out of a sense of honor, duty, publicity, love, hate, prediction, etc… But all have a general sense of meta-purpose while undertaking the arduous task.

    Still, many if not all participants who are fully aware of the sociological implications of “Game” — past, present and future — realize that the sandbags and personnel will only help for so long and eventually a better effort will have to be made to quell the loss of all properties along the raging river. Time is running out, the tide only seems to get more furious and materials & ‘man-power’ are running thin…

    Like


  274. on August 28, 2009 at 9:05 am mandy been here a while

    Mom and baby move 30 min. away with nanny (a gay guy) in a month.

    Sorry this is BS. Raise your won darn kid. They have only one kid and she needs paid help to take care of her? Rubbish.

    Like


  275. Where can I find the original Mystery posts? Google’s Usernet archives seem patchy.

    Like


  276. Random points:

    – Bill Clinton failed a massive shit test in his 1992 campaign, He was on MTV with young audiences,and some college girl asked him if he wears boxers or briefs. He sheepishly answered “boxers.” What a sweet opportunity for an ultra-neg that was.

    – It doesn’t matter that Game does not offer a comprehensive philosophy for saving the West. Game is more like a spark that sets off a chain reaction; this is not dissimilar from many other revolutions. For example, Martin Luther King’s activities catapulted to national attention over a bus seat and a sanitation workers’ strike. Solidarity in 1980 was not about anti-Communism, but about independent trade unions after someone was unjustly fired from the Gdansk shipyard and the state-run trade unions wouldn’t back him up.

    – Auster never said Game is bad because it is misogynistic. he resists it because it is (1) a shocking concept to many men of his generation, (2) Game operates on HBD premises, which he can’t reconcile with his religious beliefs, though I can.

    Like


  277. 2 errata: Solidarity was initially about demanding independent trade unions. Game operates on Darwinian, not so much HBD premises, though the two are related.

    Like


  278. on August 28, 2009 at 10:08 am Venusian Arts Knack

    Those of you in DC know me. I work with Mystery. Its him.

    Like


  279. on August 28, 2009 at 10:12 am Venusian Arts Knack

    Also I communicated to Roissy via a mutual friend that nearly all his points in the post were incorrect. So he shouldnt be surprised.

    Like


  280. Authenticity confirmed.

    Like


  281. on August 28, 2009 at 10:21 am BMM black military man

    “Sorry this is BS. Raise your won darn kid. They have only one kid and she needs paid help to take care of her? Rubbish.”
    ………..

    SHE doesn’t need the nanny, Mystery does, coz he doesn’t plan on being there to father his kid everyday. The nanny is obviously a surrogate father figure, and probably not even gay.
    (wink)

    Like


  282. PA,

    Regarding your comment about Bill Clinton & the ’92 campaign “boxers or briefs” shit test moment: out of curiosity, what sort of “ultra neg” responses would you have given?

    Like


  283. Nonymous commented on something I have been thinking on and off as I read this blog lately. It seemed too weird to put it on here, but it is true. The one thinker I have read whose worldview is closest to Roissy’s, on where our civilization is going, and why — is the late Pope Paul VI.

    Both men are/were hardcore realists about human nature.

    They respond to that accurate perception from different moral premises, and hence take and offer different responses.

    But the picture of reality they depict and the nature of men and women and how the sexes respond to modern conditions — is essentially identical.

    Like


  284. on August 28, 2009 at 10:50 am BMM black military man

    “Such a culture would most likely be so Libertarian as to allow various sub-cultural or regional groups to flourish in lieu of the weakening quasi-national identity the U.S.”……….

    Dangerous concept. Might result in civil/cultural wars between different sub-cultural/religious groups, don’t you think?

    Like


  285. what sort of “ultra neg” responses would you have given

    If I were at his level of alpha I’d probably have the perfect neg just come so naturally I wouldn’t even heed to think abut it.

    He could have said “aren’t you are too young to ask me this kind of a question?”

    Like


  286. on August 28, 2009 at 11:16 am BMM black military man

    RE: black men and size

    Ruby and Chuck, I’m not saying we all have big ones. Otherwise there would be no need for “Extenze” commercials on BET (Black Entertainment Television).

    Sofia, you are Indian, are you not? Indian culture does not have the same obsession with size that White and Black American culture has. In fact, with regards to sexuality, Indians are repressed. Like 5th Horseman said, average understanding of sexuality is on the level of a 12 year old.

    But yes, size is important to American Black women of all backgrounds – high class to low class.

    Like


  287. Clinton could have also walked into the audience, pimp-smacked her closed-fisted, and said “better put some ice in that.”

    Now that would be an ultra neg.

    Like


  288. the obsession with dick size in the 70s was nothing more than an unabashed push for rampant black male/white female miscegenation, with a dollop of gay male size queen influence to boot

    Like


  289. “Solidarity in 1980 was not about anti-Communism, but about independent trade unions after someone was unjustly fired from the Gdansk shipyard and the state-run trade unions wouldn’t back him up.”

    her, actually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Walentynowicz

    Like


  290. You’re right Cliff, it was a “her” not a him. Diligent fact checking. You’re hired.

    Like


  291. Mystery should remove the black eyeliner before video skyping with Dakota because 1). it’s a good skincare habit to remove eye makeup thoroughly before bed; 2). kids find dark eyeliner scary

    Like


  292. I think it’s a good bet that Mystery is gong to be an erratic scary presence in his daughter’s life (alternating long periods of inattention with short, terrifying bouts of ATTENTION!!!!!!) that she might as well get used to it now.

    But to be fair, I give him a few more years to settle down. But if he doesn’t he needs to be aware that 6 year olds do not want life-on-the-edge or cool parents (much less horndog parents who feel up ladies in public). They want boring authority figures who are there almost all the time.

    Like


  293. you know who

    Humans are not exclusively ruled by crude biological programming. If they were, we’d be banging rocks together in some forest, not using the Internet.

    We are. We just have great ways of suppressing it. We sublimate those crude desires into intellectual pursuits, but they remain very much an active part of us. Anything else would be psychologically unhealthy re: Jung.

    Like


  294. BMM,

    I have largely ethnic Indian heritage, but I’m not Indian, nor are my parents, and nor are more grandparents. Culturally, I’m anything but, so stack up to the average western woman in terms of my perspective.

    Like


  295. on August 28, 2009 at 12:19 pm Comment_Whatever

    Dana said:

    socons, like leftists, are ultimately platonic–they believe words and concepts are real and have actual power to alter reality–they believe changing the names of things changes there nature–you can see this clearly in the way Austeria consistently chooses a special pet name for the straw men he constructs that is NOT what the adherents to the actual belief systems he opposes call themselves. this is why feminist shaming language is effective against them irrespective of the blatant ACTIONS of feminism in destroying western civ.

    Since Men implement changes, while Women influence and suggest, I think women tend to practice ‘reality by declaration’. That is they Declare the way things are. It’s really more of a demand/request to men on what they want. This naming habit you are talking about Dana, and I hadn’t realized they even had it till you mentioned it, I think is an extension of that.

    Reality By Declaration

    Like


  296. yes reality by declaration–

    that’s why women routinely suppress speech that contains truths they don’t prefer exist–if you no one ever says it out loud it can’t be true!

    also why women talk incessantly about how things “should” be, and not how they are

    Like


  297. That sounds a lot like Mystery to me.

    Granted I haven’t seen or talked to the guy in a couple of years, but the tone is pretty reminiscent of Erik back when I worked with him from 04-06.

    I know VA does teach the stupid successful risk taker switch as it’s listed on their blog.

    The hair is gorgeous, Preselected means I get it etc… Are SUCH Erik quotes in fact I’d be surprised if anyone else could write like that just based on the complete scrotebaggeryness of the email.

    Matador does wear a wig and Mystery’s baby’s momma was a stripper. Those I can confirm.

    Is it Erik?

    My gut says yes, he’s very sensitive and likes to posture as if he’s some sort of badass. So this strikes me as something he’d waste his time on while not making products 🙂

    JS

    Like


  298. Black Military Man said:

    “Dangerous concept. Might result in civil/cultural wars between different sub-cultural/religious groups, don’t you think?”

    My Response:

    Possibly.

    Trend Pundits seem to think that the following scenarios will take place according to their respective regions if the U.S. were to ‘break up’:

    Southwest U.S. – Becomes mired in racial conflict and largely becomes uninhabitable without the extensive energy and water infrastructure to keep it running.

    Northwest U.S. – Succeeds in maintaining some semblance of modern civilization or becomes absorbed by Canada in part.

    Midwestern U.S. – Parts become uninhabitable because of both rigorous desert and winter terrains. The agricultural land that is usable without a nationwide infrastructure survives.

    Southeastern U.S. – Becomes mired in racial, cultural and religious strife. Is generally accepted to not do very well at all in the long-term.

    Texas – Initially is mired in racial, cultural and religious strife but is eventually able to maintain a semi-stable infrastructure. Possibly absorbs parts of Mexico or surrounding states into itself.

    Northeastern U.S. – Even though the initial circumstances are still heavily debated, the NE U.S. is seen to do the best out of all the regions in a U.S. break-up scenario. Some point to racial, cultural, population density and other such long-standing factors as being significant reasons why.

    Like


  299. Sofia,

    Any woman who expresses dissatisfaction with the fact she is identified as Indian although she is only “part Indian”, has some issues.

    Like


  300. Ruby,

    You forgot the part where whites become irrelevant..

    Like


  301. lmao @ Matador’s “Hair Technology”

    Like


  302. Lucifer,

    I didn’t express dissatisfaction. He was making a claim based on what he thought my culture was. Do you think I know much about Indian culture if even my grandparents weren’t from India? I have no problem expressing that I am of ethnically Indian descent, which I have done many times before.

    Like


  303. Sofia,

    Sophism has it’s limitations.

    Hate to break this to you, but people born after the late 60s in India (starting with educated upper middle class) are not ashamed of who they are. Most urban indians born after 1980 are certainly quite OK with who they are. But your type still carries the inferiority complex from your parents generation. Grow up..

    Like


  304. on August 28, 2009 at 12:53 pm Seeking Alpha

    Lucifer must be ashamed or he would’ve picked the Hindu version of his name.

    Like


  305. “Humans are not exclusively ruled by crude biological programming.”

    Nor is anything. Biology is overwhelmingly subtle and delicate and influences every part of every living being.

    Like


  306. Lucifer,

    I’m not employing sophistry?

    The last relatives of mine I can recall even being born in India must have been from my great-grandparents generation! My parents AREN’T from India, so they couldn’t have been born there pre- or post- 60s. Hooooly!

    Like


  307. Seeking Alpha,

    I had to simplify the name/ concept for you guys.

    Like


  308. “socons, like leftists, are ultimately platonic–they believe words and concepts are real and have actual power to alter reality–they believe changing the names of things changes there nature”

    Excellent point and worth repeating.

    “Indian culture does not have the same obsession with size that White and Black American culture has. In fact, with regards to sexuality, Indians are repressed. Like 5th Horseman said, average understanding of sexuality is on the level of a 12 year old.”

    I don’t know much about modern Indian culture. How did it get to this point from the ancient sexually rich Hindu culture (Kama Sutra, sexual aspects of Tantra etc)?

    Like


  309. Lucifer

    The way you sound about whites, you were probably born on the same day of Queen Victoria

    Like


  310. Lucy, stop using that good brain on top of your shoulder only to conceal a big chip there. It is a bad use of good resources. What is worse? No big head could ever cover that chip up!

    Like


  311. gig,

    I am not anti-white, just anti-delusional.

    Like


  312. I’d rather live alone in a hut in the forest than practice Roissyite techniques on another human being. But that’s me.

    Lawrence Auster

    when do I get my prize for noting that this guy is proposing a monastical life for all guys born after 1980? He is actually even worse, he wants that lifestyle (I don´t know the english word) in which the monk goes live alone in the desert

    Like


  313. on August 28, 2009 at 1:24 pm BMM black military man

    “I don’t know much about modern Indian culture. How did it get to this point from the ancient sexually rich Hindu culture (Kama Sutra, sexual aspects of Tantra etc)?”
    ……………………………..

    Indian tantra is not sexual. That’s an American invention just to sell “sex techniques” as something exotic.

    Kama Sutra was written hundreds, maybe even a few thousand, years ago in SANKSRIT, an elitist literary language that the mass of Indians never knew and still don’t, even though quite a number of Indian languages are based from it.

    (Think “Latin”)

    Kama Sutra was purportedly written by a celibate “sage” (monk/wiseman/yogi) in patronage to some royalty.

    It was not written nor intended for the masses.

    Westerners, with all of our various translations of the text and internet blogs about it, probably read it more than Indians ever have.

    Like


  314. Auster and Sailer should be forbidden to talk about game. It diminishes them

    Like


  315. on August 28, 2009 at 1:26 pm BMM black military man

    I’d rather live alone in a hut in the forest than practice Roissyite techniques on another human being. But that’s me.

    Lawrence Auster

    when do I get my prize for noting that this guy is proposing a monastical life for all guys born after 1980? He is actually even worse, he wants that lifestyle (I don´t know the english word) in which the monk goes live alone in the desert

    ……………………………………….

    In some cultures such an attitude reveals the TRUE ALPHA male. The man who has the courage to walk away from everything and go it alone.

    Enlightenment and liberation from the cycle of birth and death often ensue.

    Like


  316. Lucy, stop using that good brain on top of your shoulder only to conceal a big chip there.

    Pupu, stop using that good brain on top of your shoulder only to conceal yourself. Post .jpgs

    Like


  317. on August 28, 2009 at 1:28 pm BMM black military man

    Lucifer, Sofia is an Indo-Carib, completely different animal from the Indo-Indo or the Indo-American.

    Like


  318. Lucifer

    WHat do you expect for the next 10 years?

    Like


  319. LOL @ Gig’s comment… It merits a re-post:

    The way you sound about whites, you were probably born on the same day of Queen Victoria

    Ahahahahahhahaahaha.

    Like


  320. Sofia confesses:

    I have largely ethnic Indian heritage, but I’m not Indian, nor are my parents, and nor are more grandparents. , but I’m not Indian, nor are my parents, and nor are more grandparents.

    suweet! please tell me how to make one of those “Dreamcatcher” thingies – I’m seeing this hot chck from the reservation for a date 3

    Like


  321. Firepower, I know you are intrigued by me. But you don’t have to bait me to talk to me.

    Like


  322. cool. i like easy girls. let’s drop the bullshit. do i start with the feathers, or just make the wooden hoop?

    Like


  323. Tupac,

    The difference in Pupu’s case is that whatever her brain is unable to cover up, her good heart will make it up 🙂

    Like


  324. this thread simply cannot, must not die.
    simply bc *500 days* is new.

    Nintendo Gen – stand firm
    linger here
    be reminded
    in comfortable familiarity
    of TAF and VA

    Like


  325. on August 28, 2009 at 2:07 pm BMM black military man

    Firepower, she’s ethnically EAST Indian.

    That’s dot, not feather.

    OM

    Like


  326. Sofia

    We are. We just have great ways of suppressing it. We sublimate those crude desires into intellectual pursuits, but they remain very much an active part of us. Anything else would be psychologically unhealthy re: Jung.

    Great. So why is deplorable female behavior excused on the basis that you can’t fight biology?

    Like


  327. The difference in Pupu’s case is that whatever her brain is unable to cover up, her good heart will make it up

    *Yawn*

    Post .jpgs

    Let us have a looksee.

    Incidentally, I was surprised to see you not comment on the “ugliness of ears” post over at 2B. I’d have thought such an oddball topic would’ve been right up your alley.

    Like


  328. “Indian tantra is not sexual. That’s an American invention just to sell “sex techniques” as something exotic.”

    I agree that Neotantra, American version, has little in common with Indian tantric practices.

    But sex did indeed have a place in many tantric sects. Search Vamachara. Tantra in it’s many forms was/is a religious, spiritual, and philosophical practice.

    Like


  329. my last Indian gf
    gave her daddy
    the Indian Tantra
    when he told her
    she couldn’t go
    to Cornell

    Like


  330. Was Vamacharic “tantric sex” with a wife/girlfriend???

    Like


  331. BMM black military man,

    If you believe that humans can be that fundamentally different, what is the problem with believing that people like you are inferior to other “races”.

    PS- Why does south Indian temple art have so many naked chicks. North indian temples had that too, but muslims destroyed it.

    Like


  332. Luci: If you believe that humans can be that fundamentally different, what is the problem with believing that people like you are inferior to other “races”.

    Me: Was that in regards to my comment that Indo-Caribs are different from Indo’s in India and Indo’s from India that immigrate to USA?

    If so, there is a big difference. Indo-Caribs have been in the Carribbean for a very long time and are influenced by Afro-Carib culture. They have not preserved the social and religious conservatism that Indians in India have, including the Indians that have recently (last few generations) migrated to the USA or Canada directly from India.

    Luci: PS- Why does south Indian temple art have so many naked chicks. North indian temples had that too, but muslims destroyed it.

    Me: Can you name, oh, at least 10 South Indian temples that sport this art, and provide photos?

    Like


  333. Tupac,
    Ah, but in the post directly following the “ugly ear” one, someone nearly swallowed a bullet with her primal breakfast!

    Like


  334. BMM,

    Ajanta, ellora and elephanta caves (buddhist)
    Mahabalipuram (hindu)
    Konark (hindu)
    Khajuraho (of course!)

    to name a few.. hey, almost every indian sculpture from before the 13th century AD (especially from south india) has topless women and couples in close physical proximity + intimacy.

    Like


  335. One further warning about the Tao of Steve.

    It does teach some game ideas but in a thoroughly gelded and feminist approved manner.

    It’s based upon a semi autobiographical novel or roman au clef where the author was the heroine’s sought after prize. (With no doubt a lot of massaging.)

    The basic resolution that the Tao of Steve points to is that improbable guys can be romantically thrill — and in the end your house husband.

    So while in the beginning and end some downscale limited game is thought, the end message is terrible and thoroughly emasculating. Also false. She won’t be happy with her loyal house husband former gamer and will cuckold him or leave him or both in that order.

    Like


  336. beginning and middle.

    Like


  337. Wrong thread for Tao of Steve. Well it was enough of a mess that I’m not so unhappy that it was in the wrong thread.

    Like


  338. Luci, that was only 4, half of 10. I asked for 10.

    Four???

    4 is nothing. India has literally THOUSANDS of temples across its landscape.

    By the way…. Konark?!?! Which temple? I’ve been to the Sun Temple there, which one has the sexual position sculptures?

    Name please. Photos.

    Khajaraho is not in the South, by the way, it’s in Madhya Pradesh (central). Ajanta is in Maharastra, again not considered “South India”.

    If this was a contest, you’d lose.

    But it’s not. So no sweat.

    By the way, nudity is not neccessarily a sign of “sexuality”. In our culture it is because we have sexualized nudity, but not so in other places.

    It is not at all contradictory that even now in India (and Africa and the Amazon) you can find topless tribes, and they do not slut it up.

    Topless sculptures mean nothing. You will find old sculptures of buxom Goddesses in India because their concept of “Divinity” does not equate to an old, angry, clothed white dude with a beard. It does not at all mean the Goddess is promiscuous or that the people who worship her are.

    (and often they are not “topless” but just very buxom so that they appear that way)

    Ancient scriptures of India indicate that promiscuity and adultery was dealt with severly (shame-based culture). Islam and Christianity did NOT introduce that to India, but they were shocked by how flimsy some of the clothing could be, which in their minds equated loose sexual morals.

    I’ve been all over the world. The most naturally chaste, modest, sexually frustrated and repressed people are in India.

    And the temples with naked scupltures on the outside are very few and very far between. The majority of the THOUSANDS of temples in India do not have that. Though their Goddesses will always be buxom. A welcome change and nice break from the old, angry, white dude with a beard – don’t you think?

    Like


  339. You have topless women on the stones used to build that Quwat ul Islam mosque in Delhi. Suggesting the origin of the stones.

    Khajuraho isn´t in NOrth India?

    Like


  340. “Khajuraho isn´t in NOrth India?”

    Central India – the state of Madhya Pradesh. Madhya means “middle”.

    Like


  341. Black Military Man

    Lucifer, Sofia is an Indo-Carib

    Where do you get that?

    I believe she said she was 75% Indian and 25% Euro ultimate origin white (i.e. not Persian or Arab type Causcasian) of some sort. That’s certainly in line with how her pics look on her site as well.

    Like


  342. Sophia

    Firepower’s too young for you.

    You see the effects.

    Like


  343. gig,

    Before islamic rule in north india, young women went topless. Only older women wore something to hold them in.. In south india, islamic influence was much weaker (and later).

    The topless and semi-transparent dressing style of young women in India was noted by many ancient travelers.

    Another thing, most pre-islamic statues in india show physical intimacy that you do not see in India today.

    Like


  344. Doug/Black Military Man:

    Doug has it right, BMM has a bit of it right also.

    I am 75% ethnically Indian, but from South America, and 25% Euro-Spanish.

    Like


  345. Me: Lucifer, Sofia is an Indo-Carib

    Doug 1: Where do you get that?

    Me: Her website, or here. I think she mentioned it here. Sofia? You out there?

    The indiginous form of dress in India was and is a long piece of cloth for both men and women. The mens is called “dhoti”, the womens is called “sari”.

    A sari is longer and more ornate/decorative. It covers the entire body and there are many ways that it can be drapped. Traditionally, back in ancient times and even medieval times, women drapped part of the sari over their chests, but wore nothing underneath it.

    Now they were a type of cotton “bodice” or “blouse” underneath it.

    You can still find some old, poor, village women who do not wear “cholis” underneath their saris.

    I think the concept of wearing something underneath the chest drapping came from foreigners who thought that not binding the breasts and going sleeveless was “scandalous”.

    Fast forward to today where even sleeveless blouses are considered “western” and “shameful” to conservative Indians!!! And these are the Indians that want to “preserve” their great ancient culture!

    I guess the fact that breasts were not bound and all women went sleeveless in their great, ancient culture is something that they conveniently overlook.

    Google: “pink chaddi campaign” if you want to get an inkling into what goes on in India these days.

    Like


  346. Sofia,

    You are an attention whore.. aren’t you?

    Like


  347. Lucifer,

    I was responding to questions directed at me, which YOU prompted!

    Like


  348. Sofia,

    My statement was based on your blog postings.. topics.

    Like


  349. You could argue that it’s narcissistic, but ultimately, everything is narcissistically driven on some level. The things I post about aren’t normally things I discuss, so, it’s nice to have an outlet for the Shadow of Sofia. Though, I’m not forcing it down anyone’s throat, and I’m only incidentally happy if people read it and relate to it on some level, or like it because it’s enjoyable fluff.

    Like


  350. The Lucifer – Sofia love connection:

    Like


  351. PA,

    Assuming that you have a normal life expectancy, you will live to see the end for your kind. Do you really think you kind has enough “fuel” to make it for another generation.. demography and technology are a bitch.

    The funny part is that you are busy antagonizing the very groups that could have helped you.

    Like


  352. I’m only antagonizing you, not any group. I saw that pic by chance and it looked exactly how I’ve been piocturing you.

    Like


  353. PA has you pegged.

    Like


  354. PA,

    Try Neel Kashkari, without the creepy eyes.

    Like


  355. but in the end, soft weak christian conservatives (and note, women have a BIG voice in the CC sphere) are too gentlehearted to let people suffer through the actual return to the traditions they seek–so they just blather on in righteous indignation and cluck their tongues while western civ commits ideological suicide. great

    @dana —

    Very much agree. It’s time is done, I think. The future will not be held back. We need something new to combat the leftist juggernaut, not old-school soconism.

    Like


  356. Nova says, “Very much agree. It’s time is done, I think. The future will not be held back. We need something new to combat the leftist juggernaut, not old-school soconism.”

    From what’s going on in France, women’s social concerns may be the key. They seem to have realized that they went too far against nature, and are correcting their mistakes, and using classic female status jockeying to do it.

    The birth rate among native French people is going up, perhaps as a result of the social shift back to sanity.

    Like


  357. on August 29, 2009 at 9:08 am Virginia Gentleman

    dana says,

    socons, like leftists, are ultimately platonic–they believe words and concepts are real and have actual power to alter reality–they believe changing the names of things changes there nature

    Control of the language is a valuable thing, whether you realize it or not. Some British guy wrote a book, not long after the Second World War, that featured such control as a major theme; you might look it up. His name was Orwell.

    Like


  358. uh yeh virginia, i read 1984 ty

    i am saying that individual leftists and women in particular actually believe that words have that magic power in real life–not in a totalitarian state

    Like


  359. controlling the language and forcing society members to repeat known lies is a form of humiliation and dominance. it reinforces the power of the dominant caste over the weak.

    it still doesn’t change the underlying reality on the ground

    control of the language in 1984 does not give the state or the party control over reality, only how the party members are allowed to discuss reality and publically react to it–again, all words.

    in this same way we have a giant feminist memeplex regarding how men SHOULD react to fat women, ugly women, old women– generations have imbibed with mother’s milk–i could find 100 college senior men who would mouth the feminist fantasy of what male sexuality should be IN WORDS, but the boner factory of magazines and porn continues day after day to REFLECT the reality of male sexual arousal irrespective of the feminists “should”

    Like


  360. on August 29, 2009 at 9:49 am Virginia Gentleman

    Dana:

    Room 101 for you; say hello to Winston and Julia for me.

    I think it’s worth noting that, in the end, Winston winds up crying for his love of Big Brother. I’d submit to you that, if you can tell people that 2+2=5 for long enough, and can make that fact stick (“The answer is five and it’s Room 101 for you if you disagree”) then you’ve gone a long way towards transforming that particular society. Now, that doesn’t change the essentially inarguable fact that 2+2=4 (although I’ve heard some theoretical math types say otherwise) but for all intents and purposes in Oceania, 2+2 will be 5 unless you’re the Inner Party or something.

    I don’t think you need Oceania and IngSoc to get there, either; ask Lawrence Summers or James Watson. They kept their teeth but not their jobs. It helps that Big Brother had the ability to knock teeth out—Big Sister only has control of some laws, elements of the language and stiletto heels, so their advance will necessarily be slower. Can’t kick teeth out with Manolo Blahnik, after all.

    As for the “should react”, well, hey, there was a PornoSec after all.

    Like


  361. virginia–it was the RATS that made winston cry his love for big brother, not the WORDS 😉

    you can force the populace into lies but when the cognitive dissonance of holding patently false beliefs becomes too strong there is usually some manner of hysteria that brings the false belief to a head and then dissipates it

    we are in that process with environmentalism

    Like


  362. “Control of the language is a valuable thing, whether you realize it or not. Some British guy wrote a book, not long after the Second World War, that featured such control as a major theme; you might look it up. His name was Orwell.”

    I recommend Steven Pinker’s The Language Instinct for a comprehensive rebuttal of the ‘theory’ (more accurately, assumption) that language can control or change thought or a society.

    Like


  363. Nicole:

    It’s the sight of old saggy boobs and slutty tourists. Young French women now see going topless on the beach and wearing skimpy clothing as something desperate, low class, and old women do.

    I don’t see how covering their boobs on the beach will make women less slutty, hypergamous, or likely to want a divorce. Going topless has gone out of style here in Norway, too, but it doesn’t influence those other things.

    Like


  364. Going topless has gone out of style here in Norway, too, but it doesn’t influence those other things.

    So it’s the works of all wordls 😦

    During the 1970s, one of my uncles, a young guy at the time, visited Sweden and Norway (a rare treat during the Iron Curtain days) took a bunch of photos at the beaches there, and developed them before returning to the Fatherland. He gleefully showed us pic after pic of women of all ages, sexy ones all, posing delightfully for his camera, full sweet Nordic nudity from fjord to shining fjord, and smiling deliciously.

    Fast forward to 1997 when I visited southern France with a couple of my buddies, and much to my chagrin, virtually no woman under 35 was topless. Sure a few were; German-speaking families much more so, a few even sporting full nudity; rarely did a teenage girl of any nationality prance around topless.

    And now, you’r telling me that only trashy/old broads, if them even, show anything in Europe? That does it. I’m not visiting western Europe again.

    Like


  365. I exaggerated a little above. I saw quite a few women under 30 topless in France, though closer to 20, the more likely they were to have their tops on. You were more likely to see gorgeous young women topless in bar/hotel beach areas, where the atmosphere felt more exclusive. Also, docked yachts had tons of topless hottles on them.

    So yeah, it wasn’t so bad in 1997.

    But these days when I occasionally visit Voyerweb, for them most the women are worn-looking, have tats (huge turnoff for me) and often piercings.

    Will I ever see a photo of a topless woman on a beach without that ridiculous circle/sun tatoo around her bellybutton?

    Like


  366. Well, PA and Arpagus, it’s somewhat related to the interesting conversation Dana’s having with V-Gent. Lots of rhetoric was tossed about in the 70’s about how men *should* react to nudity, and on some level it changed the way some actually did, but none of the beautiful words changed the facts.

    The fact is that even in the darkest, dankest jungles of the world where nudity is common, people’s physical appearance is still judged. The only difference not having clothing on makes is that it’s just easier to do. There’s nowhere to hide.

    I wouldn’t reduce the shift in fashion as strictly about the style of dress. Some anecdotal buzz here and there suggests women are no longer happy to call themselves feminists. It’s unknown whether this is just because they know men don’t like it, but their being conscious of the fact that men don’t like it is a step in the right direction. A feminist is considered a high risk emotional investment.

    No fault divorce has resulted in a drastic increase of female initiated divorces across Europe, and this is a bad sign. Then again, it may just be because the whole thing is kind of new. It was high here in Israel too for awhile, and many 30+ clubs arose to rematch the wave…but these places are already known as meatmarkets for the desperate. So the only ones that are really populated now are catering to couples and dancers. I’m told it’s not much different in Europe. Clubbing is for kids.

    So statistics say one thing, and the social reality at ground level says another, or that the actual cost of the trend is higher than individuals are truly willing to pay. In real life, freedom isn’t free, and when you have already had children and/or gotten older, you just don’t have the options you had when you were younger.

    Young people who aren’t stupid understand this. They see how ridiculous old ladies look alone or with their mini hive of lonely desperate friends topless on the beach or roaming the streets at night, and they don’t want to become that.

    Much of Europe doesn’t have the level of infrastructure the U.S. does. Life is much more real for the average European girl, and her cities are smaller. So a social change that reduces their chances of securing a lifelong mate hits them harder.

    Like


  367. “Young people who aren’t stupid understand this. They see how ridiculous old ladies look alone or with their mini hive of lonely desperate friends topless on the beach or roaming the streets at night, and they don’t want to become that.”
    …………………………

    You might be surprised Nicole, how many of those women are not lonely or desperate. Many post 40 women have already been married once or twice and are not looking to go it again and really just want to hang out with their female buddies. If they are topless that is their culture, or if the are American tourists, doing something “different” for a change, while on vacation.

    It may sound odd to relationship oriented people like us, but I know plenty of singles and divorcees who just do not want to marry or marry again.

    They MIGHT be open to dating or LTR as long as the man lives in his own place. But they are not looking to move in with a guy and cook and clean for him.

    Especially the divorcees have the attitutude, “I’ve already raised 3 kids, I don’t wanna raise another one (a husband) in my ‘golden years’… I need some rest!”

    I wouldn’t start feelin’ all sympathetic for those older topless women out there. My bet is that they are not lookin’ for sympathy but just some relaxation and peace.

    Like


  368. blk military man

    Maybe non-black women are used to and satisfied with less, but black women practically DEMAND more. That’s the primary reason why they are relunctant to date outside the race, they think they will get the short end of the stick, so to speak.

    I hear sisters saying average or a little above average is just perfect. No one wants pain.

    Like


  369. Although I would never dress up like him, you gotta respect Mystery’s “I am who I am and screw you if you don’t like it.” attitude.

    Like


  370. Whiskey

    Thursday — It was Roissy who articulated the contraception, anonymous urban living, and rising living standards FIRST as being the factors in women’s changing preference for men. I just followed his lead.

    Roissy was first.

    Unless I’m mistaken, I think it was me.

    Like


  371. […] August 30, 2009 douchev I’ll attack someone on my blog as quickly as anybody.  However, if they show any sort of negative reaction, I’ll go out of my way to apologize, grovel, and try to save face by pretending we’re similar.  Why?  Because I’m SO FUCKING ALPHA. […]

    Like


  372. Speaking of the above. What’s the story of the SFAlpha hateblog? Obsessive and stalkery much. It’s just roissy after roissy with maybe one reference to roosh.

    Creepy.

    Like


  373. To me everyone is the same you all have exactly the same parts as everyone else and yet some people still seems to think they are way above the rest of us very sad.

    I want to make two points first one being Dakotas mum is not a stripper and never has been. I know this as I have known her all my life and love her very much.

    Second point how dare you start going on about a little girl who has an innocent mind to all the sad stupid games played in this sick world. What has been written here is very disturbing and you should all be ashamed of it.

    I am glad I like in the Uk as we seem to actually have lifes and not sit around getting involved in everyone elses business. What they do in there lifes is there choice but just leave Dakota out of it!!

    Reading this just makes me so glad I live a normal life

    Like


  374. Doug

    Flirting really energies both sexes but especially our loved bitches. Just have limits. Make sure she’s worried that you still approve.

    Then it’s all good.

    That’s exactly what I told my girl last night. She was driven back home from a luncheon business meeting with a single man who is openly flirting with her.

    I knew the guys intentions before she left for the meeting, and wordlessly let her wear her choice of the I let her wear her sexy dress, but with calf length jeans and a bra to the meeting.

    Exactly – flirting energies both men and women, and is acceptable and even to be encouraged – up to a point.

    Like


  375. Allowing some flirting goes hand in hand with keeping the girl slightly jealous and slightly fearful of other girls stealing you away from her.

    The uncertainty is needed for passion.

    It seems counter intuitive.

    In order to have a healthy relationship, you need to inject uncertainty into it.

    Like


  376. Rum

    There are too strong of instinctual headwinds too overcome to make progress that way.
    No. Saving the West will require young women to stay in better shape and for young guys to get in touch with their inner Conan the Barbarian.

    Bingo.

    Like


  377. Whiskey

    What Game does, on the margins, is make the Beta guy able to either constantly Game his wife, to avoid affairs (which society will encourage) or simply avoid marriage and cohabitate from one gal to the next, giving women “at-will” employment contracts back at them … ready to be dumped at a moment’s notice.

    I think the latter is where we are going socially.

    It’s where I went, socially.

    I don’t think there is a “we” that is going to one place, socially. There have always been different sexual strategies. Sex is game theory – by evolutionary necessity there will always be different sexual strategies. You’ve got your alpha, your sneaky fucker, your provider, your rake, your serial monogamist, your married infidel.

    Society leans in directions, sexually, but doesn’t en mass go in a direction.

    Like


  378. Dana

    consequently, socons believe that by simply telling women its wrong to have babies out of wedlock and maybe making them go to church, the whole problem will stop even though ALL of the indirect incentives to bastardy remain in place–child support, divorce theft, food stamps etc. they can’t seem to see the deep systematic nonverbal causes of human behavior

    I’ve been saying the same thing but with different words on this blog for quite a while now.

    Culture is weak. It is opportunity that drives actions.

    Like


  379. BMM, I can believe that some women are off the market and glad to be because I’m just about there myself, but I don’t take off my top at public beaches or go clubbing for peace.

    That’s what private hippy parties and actual pubs are for…places where someone can have freedom and peace in a context nudity or drunkenness is supposed to happen around supportive people.

    When a woman doesn’t mind her dignity by a certain age, she puts herself in the class of ugly girls. An older woman’s supposed to be an older woman, not an ugly girl.

    Like


  380. Sofia

    I am 75% ethnically Indian, but from South America, and 25% Euro-Spanish.

    The sexiest girls are the mixed up ones. Go to places in Indonesia that have been colonized by various European powers and you’ll have a perma-stiffy.

    Miscegenation is where it’s at.

    And cultural miscegenation is meta-cool.

    Like


  381. Gentleman

    Control of the language is a valuable thing, whether you realize it or not. Some British guy wrote a book, not long after the Second World War, that featured such control as a major theme; you might look it up. His name was Orwell.

    Orwell did not presage the blogo-forumo-sphere.

    The way people write has changed because of the net. You did not get this freewheeling politically incorrect sexually charged gonzo conversation style back in the day.

    There is no possibility of P.C. anymore. Wherever it lives, it is attacked. It’s dying or dead.

    Like


  382. on August 30, 2009 at 12:25 am Virginia Gentleman

    xsplat:

    The sexiest girls are the mixed up ones. […]

    Miscegenation is where it’s at.

    And cultural miscegenation is meta-cool.

    Can’t really concur here. I have yet to see any proof of this oft-asserted fact amongst the celebrity culture, save for Kate Beckinsale; she’s apparently about an eighth Burmese.

    Furthermore, I prefer my own culture, the one that went to the moon, as opposed to others which haven’t. “This is my culture. There are several like it, but this one is mine.” (Of course, just like a good rifle, it could use a cleaning every so often.)

    There is no possibility of P.C. anymore. Wherever it lives, it is attacked. It’s dying or dead.

    Tell that to Lawrence Summers, George Allen or James Watson. In the venues that matter, i.e. academia, politics and other professional realms, the nomenklatura of the PC state are well ensconced; moreover, they’re always on duty to skewer those who depart from the Party line.

    Like


  383. Gentleman

    Furthermore, I prefer my own culture, the one that went to the moon, as opposed to others which haven’t.

    I said cultural miscegenation. Meaning a mixing of cultures. It’s not in opposition to your own culture, or a different culture.

    Did you ever meet a woman who’s family traveled a lot and was schooled in international schools? That’s western culture, but with more. Added. Worldly.

    I agree that academia is lagging behind the newly arising cultural gestalt. I disagree that academia is what matters most. You’ve got it asswards.

    Politics will follow the cultural gestalt, not academic gestalt. After all, you don’t need a degree in order to vote.

    Like


  384. Gentleman, another sure sign that PC is dying is the unabashed rise of schadenfreude as the tone of discourse.

    Like


  385. That, and, people everywhere decrying PC. People that matter. The cultural creatives, the elite – the real elite.

    Just read any Xpat forum. You’ll see a progression over the years. Read stickmanbangkok.com. PC is no longer the dominant paradigm.

    Academia can suck its dick.

    Like


  386. You’re a miserable, unhappy man who will never find happiness or fulfillment. I feel sorry for you. Your attitude toward women borders on serial killer. And I also wonder why you won’t post a real photo of yourself? Could it be because you’re excruciatingly ugly and pathetic and are forced to hide behind a blog? I love sarcasm and humor, but you possess neither of these things. Your blog is a waste of time – and the only women who will ever date you are needy or desperate.

    Like


  387. on September 8, 2009 at 9:36 pm Cannon's Canon

    Jessica… Valenti? Sign your full name!

    Like


  388. I don’t accept the idea that a man’s place is determined by his attractiveness to women. It is interesting that you guys would use that logic at all because it gives women tremendous power over the society.

    You denigrate women and in my places consider them to be children and yet bestow upon them this incredible power and somehow find yourself subordinate to their choice and wisdom?

    cackle.

    Like


  389. this is a nice post.. worth reading and informative..

    Like


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