Stupidest Anti-Game Meme On The Internet

“The alpha male isn’t the one who can get the most hot women, it’s the one who leaves behind the most children. By that measure, childless gamers are beta.”

This is so silly it hardly deserves a rebuttal, but I’m in the mood to ruin some femicunt’s or whiny promise keeper’s lunch.

Alpha males who use game to attract women are doing those things which favor passing on their DNA in the state of nature, but they are thwarting the final step in the reproductive process with modern contraceptives. The use of the condom or Pill to prevent pregnancy does not render the successful alpha male womanizer any less alpha; a legal ban on all contraceptives would quickly restore his primacy in the snot-nosed litter market.





Comments


  1. While these idiots are pissing and bitching about word definitions, other men are out getting laid. Who gives a fuck?

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  2. Except we all know that the meddlers can never really stop the free market. Long live the pill.

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  3. Yes, you are right. But the very fact that the pregnancy can be thwarted means that woman are more likely to be more promiscuous leading to a perception of many number of people who seem alpha.

    [Heartiste: Slight correction: women are more likely to be promiscuous *with alpha males*. Betas still get the shaft. In fact, they get a more sadistic shaft than ever, because they suffer their involuntary celibacy under a regime of increased sexual opportunity.]

    One has to remember, easy as it might it be to sleep with many women in western society today, it is still very difficult to actually raise children. From that perspective, wealthy men like Murdoch who serially marry and divorce fit the definition of alpha better.

    [Nope. High status men who avoid marriage altogether and yet still enjoy a veritable concubinage of female attention are today’s super alphas.]

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    • on November 4, 2011 at 9:13 pm humansocialdynamics

      Whichever man wins an AMOGing competition is by definition the most alpha. To be exact, alpha is best defined as a pattern of behaviour that produces the strongest in our alpha-judging algorithm.

      It’s no surprise that many politicians are highly alpha: most voters prefer to elect highly alpha leaders, and party politics necessitates passing shit test after shit test.

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  4. This is true – in biology, anyway.

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  5. “Alpha males who use game to attract women are doing those things which favor passing on their DNA in the state of nature”

    If we’re talking state of nature here, then the alpha male is the biggest, strongest, most aggressive male who can take reproductive access at will and prevent other males from doing the same. Game would be completely irrelevant.

    [Heartiste: Nope. The alpha male would still be the one who can bed the most quality women, whether that’s through strength, charm, wealth or prestige. By “state of nature”, I mean a state where artificial and widely-available effective contraception didn’t exist.]

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    • on November 4, 2011 at 1:00 pm (R)evoluzione

      Size and strength are poor proxies for alphatude in most species. Offensive lineman are a great example; not many football players are more beta than those gentle giants.

      Survival of the fittest means survival of the most adaptable, and in mammals, adaptation often means speed, quickness, agility, intellect, wit, charisma, and curiousity.

      If size and strength were the end-all, be-all of reproductive success, we’d be as large as elephants. Instead, we’ve developed massive forebrains and opposable thumbs.

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      • on November 4, 2011 at 9:18 pm humansocialdynamics

        No, the first post is on the right track. He who can win the fight is most alpha. Other males will prevent you from taking mating opportunities, so unless you can beat them, you are not alpha.

        Imagine if you were the best fighter who ever lived. What could possibly beat you? What about two mediocre fighters? What about 10, or 100? What about a group with the intelligence to ambush you from above with rocks or spears?

        Humans and chimpanzees are the only two animals that engage in political assassinations. Thus, alpha is still whoever wins the fight, but the politics quickly surpass the fighting in importance.

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      • I do not agree he who is more alpha wins the fight. Were the conspirators more alpha than Cesar?

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    • Its a sexual designation. Some animals compete physically, others through sexual displays i.e. “peacocking.”

      Alpha/Beta is a delineation of sexual access.

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  6. I’ve always wondered, what exactly is your position on contraceptives? After the recent articles on the pill and your regularly noted disdain for condoms I am trying to figure out exactly what you do to be able to have sex so often yet never conceive a child. I always use a condom.

    [Heartiste: I use my own condoms with new girls and girls I don’t trust. With girls I have been dating a while and who I know are on the pill, I blast away unsheathed, but take special precautions during the week when she’s ovulating by pulling out.]

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    • Statistically, condoms are barely better protection than pulling out, especially if you’re combining with the rhythm method like Heartiste. Use rubbers as protection against STDs, not pregnancy. (Not to mention, condoms are easily sabotaged.)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods#Comparison_table

      Plus women get a lot more psychological gratification from sex without contraceptives. Even if their rational side has zero desire for children, unprotected sex stimulates the reproductive drive of their monkey brains, especially because it puts the man in control. It also creates a little free dramatic tension every time their period’s a day late. And you get to bust in her mouth more often.

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    • Heartiste,

      “… who I know are on the pill, I blast away unsheathed, but take special precautions during the week when she’s ovulating by pulling out.”

      How do you know you are ovulating when you are on the pill? (I’ve never been taking the pill so I have no experience with that)

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    • But girls on the pill like them beta boys. So..what are you saying? heh heh

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    • I think you should stop denying yourself pleasure by pulling out when your lover has (imaginary?) ovulation on the pill … don’t know whether you mistyped that or you really mean it …

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  7. This one really come down to how you choose to define alpha male.

    In evolutionary biology, it is most often defined as the male who leaves the largest genetic projection for posterity.

    [Heartiste: Yes, and that was accomplished by being sexually attractive to the most women of fertile age. Evolution did not anticipate the invention of reliable condoms and the Pill.]

    Hence, some gigantic gorilla shooting blanks might as well not be shooting at all.

    [Alphas don’t shoot blanks. They shoot into a contraceptive wall, most often of their choosing. Remove the contraceptive, and these modern casanovas would be siring huge broods.]

    While you obviously define alpha as the one who beds the most women, blank shooting or not.

    It’s more useful to think about how the traits and behaviors that make up an alpha differs in a fertile society versus a largely infertile one. For one, being good at picking up 20 something women in bars, is pretty useless if virtually all women have 10 kids hanging off their skirttails by then.

    Another factor in fertile societies, is that those who have lots of children, AND raise them (beta trait in America as of here and now) to be loyal, can use them as a power base, hence bias laws in a direction that favors themselves and their specific lifestyle. While in our “society”, showmanship, appearing cool in TV debates, and an above average ability to BS regulators, judges and juries are the traits that result in power and influence.

    Not saying you do so, but beware of the temptation to flatter yourself by extrapolating alphatude in our specific outlier environment, to be more universal than it really is.

    [Without contraception there would likely be thousands of little heartiste sprogs running around by now.]

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    • Again… I don’t know why this is so difficult.

      The gigantic gorilla shooting blanks, or the lion in charge of his pride who is infertile STILL HAS HIS HAREM.

      He may not leave a genetic legacy because of his impotence, but he still has the ACCESS and primacy over the females. He still runs off and competes against other males.

      Alpha / beta is a sexual designation, not a designation of genetic legacy.

      Jesus, even female fish “fake” orgasms.

      http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg16922822.200-fussy-fish-fake-it.html

      They get lesser male fish to ejaculate, and then they wait for a better male to release their eggs for fertilization [fish don’t even fuck, probably what will happen to most of human societies if feminists continue on their warpath.]

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    • Because I felt that him contributing financially (even though the amount was relatively small) was important to keep him engaged with his kids, and to allow him to be able to say that he is supporting them. He had not historically been very fiscally responsible. It was about the principle of the thing more than the money.

      You’re right, I could have paid for everything. How would that have looked to my kids?

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    • “This one really come down to how you choose to define alpha male.

      In evolutionary biology, it is most often defined as the male who leaves the largest genetic projection for posterity.”

      No. Alpha/beta are sexual designations. Its about ACCESS to females. Using your logic, could I claim that the gigantic gorilla that was denied access to a group of females, but still held sway over the current ones was not alpha? You quote evolutionary biology, but you then you speak shit.

      Does an infertile lion [or wolf, or gorilla, or anything,] that runs off the the competing males lose access to the females in the pride? No. He gains access. That’s what alpha is. Access to sex. Our kind host has never disputed that.

      “Hence, some gigantic gorilla shooting blanks might as well not be shooting at all.”

      Again, you don’t understand what “alpha” is. Does a peacock have to be the biggest? Or does he have to have the most sexually attractive attributes?

      You should really go through the archives.

      Even female fish [fish don’t have active intercourse,] will fake orgasms, and choose which male they will give the eggs to:

      http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg16922822.200-fussy-fish-fake-it.html

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  8. Heartiste, can you please weigh in on this MRA vs. “Gamer” debate?

    [Heartiste: Can’t. I’m too busy enjoying the company of women.]

    It is frustrating to see a bunch guys who could really be helped by learning game attempt to pick apart Frost’s arguments on irrelevant premises. I think Frost has potential but he is a bit too narcissistic to speak for Game practictioners at large.

    [I haven’t read much of this MRA debate going on, except at a passing glance, so I don’t know who the major players are, or what they’re even complaining about. I understand that it has something to do with being a man by avoiding interaction with women.]

    The MRA guys don’t understand that we sympathize with a lot of their beliefs or motivations, but that we choose to do something about it, instead of sitting around holding each other’s dicks.

    [This blog’s archives are chock full of pro-mra sentiment. Men really are getting the shaft by major institutions in some very unjust ways. I have explained here before that the reason for this is that the male of any species is expendable, so there is less motivation to right wrongs committed against men, or to sympathize with men’s issues. I don’t see this changing much in the future, as any change would require an alteration in human nature itself.]

    They claim that adopting behavior that lets you fuck more women is behaving like a circus clown.

    [Donald Trump once said that closing a deal felt better than sex. According to mra logic, the things he did to help himself close deals were akin to behaving like a circus clown.]

    They don’t understand that when you imitate a dominant mindset, body language, and demeanor it not only makes you more attractive to women…it more importantly becomes you. You get to the point where you aren’t pretending, you just are a dominant person and it helps you succeed in all aspects of life.

    [If behaving in a way that is more attractive to women so that I can enjoy their love and sex is enslavement, then i don’t want to be unshackled.]

    I understand how some people can characterize this as the same thing as self-help books, but it is more focused and can be scientifically tested by experimenting in the field. Really there isn’t anything wrong with self-help books anyways, a lot of people are just too lazy and/or stubborn to actually practice the principles they learn.

    [Game works. If someone’s too lazy or morally opposed to using it, then he has a simple solution at hand: don’t use it. No skin off my nose.]

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    • On the MRA issue, even though men have always been thought of as expendable men have always balanced this out by righting wrongs committed against them with force. If a women cuckolded a man, the women and child would be killed. There’s a reason rebels are mainly men. Women go along with the dominant group think no matter how wrong it is. Men have always been the ones to not tolerate nonsense.

      It’s always been men’s responsibility to right wrongs committed against them. This is because people don’t respond to men whining. They respond to brute force or action. Men dont get sympathy because people expect them to do something about it themselves whether by force or action. Men have just been neutered in general. Men no longer have the balls to bring forth justice with violence. Game is nice, but in reality men should have crushed the feminist movement so it never had to come to that.

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      • This is a falsehood.

        There was no way for any man to ever determine who was the father until very recently.

        SOCIETY, [as in the largest grouping that humans can have,] collectively chose to such things. Don’t just single out males as the only ones to have done that, and stop advocating violence. That just makes you look like a troll.

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      • If a man THOUGHT the child wasnt his, he would kill just the women, maybe both, or maybe just simply walk away. 100% certainty wasnt required.

        Who ran society? Men… women and children had very little say. They followed along with whatever the men did. Even if they did have say, who had to do the actual dirty work? Men did the violence, as is expected of and always has been expected of.

        Advocate? Not at this point in time. I said men SHOULD HAVE crushed the feminist movement. Obviously I don’t recommend that now as that’s a lost battle at this point in time, for now.

        Troll? Think what you want, cry me a river.

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      • How does advocating violence make him a troll? The host has often mentioned physical strength and stays in prison as alpha qualities and pts in the poll pay attention.

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  9. There’s a corollary I see on “game” blogs everywhere.

    A guy who gets married, has kids, and successfully raises a family is “beta”. Or a “white knight”, or some other silly name.

    This is incredibly stupid as far as I’m concerned.

    “Game” can be used for many purposes. The easiest way to use it is to hook up with sluts. The hardest is to find a good girl, marry her, have kids, and keep a happy relationship over the long term (using “game”).

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    • Yeah, where are the Alpha Providers?

      You might also ask why a “Beta Bad Boy” is never spoken of either. Why? There must be some, right?

      The reason ‘provider’ and ‘beta’ seem synonymous is because this is the most common association. Women ‘fuck the bad boy and marry the provider’ is the most common scenario, not because they wouldn’t love to have an Alpha Provider, but because the two attributes are so rarely found in the same individual.

      You can call that stereotyping, but understand, those associations aren’t established because some guru in the community said so. It’s because women’s behaviors have proven it to be the most easily identifiable association.

      Provisioning is an act. It is not inherently Alpha or beta, but it is colored by whatever mindset that provider brings to it. ‘Beta Provider’ is the most common term because this is classically what women approaching the Wall of their SMV will settle for when their potential to attract the Alpha declines. This is why being a Beta Provider is derided; it’s implied that being a provider with a beta mindset predisposes a guy to manipulations and an LTR based on that provisioning, not any real Alpha attraction. Is your woman with you because she genuinely desires your inspired Alpha confidence, or is she fucking you despite your beta-ness because that’s the price of your provisioning?

      Beta Provider is a warning. You don’t hear about Alpha providers because there’s really nothing to warn against if that’s what you’re already bringing to your providership.

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      • I think Tyler Durden said something really insightful on the provider/lover distinction. They aren’t mutually exclusive at all. In fact, even if your goal is to be in a long term relationship/family and to be a successful provider for your wife and offspring, it is better to take the “lover” (alpha) approach. It is not difficult at all for a guy who has attracted a woman and slept with her to later decide “I want to provide for you”. That option is always available, and there’s nothing contradictory about an alpha decided to pair bond with a chick. However, the opposite is not true. Its VERY difficult for a man who has interested a woman as a “provider” (beta) to later convert that interest into primal attraction. But I don’t think alpha providers are really that rare at all. Beta womanizers are very rare on the other hand.

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      • I’d take it a step further. Most urban women over the age of 22 are gunning for the Alpha Provider. They might hookup with an alpha or date a provider, but they’re dissatisfied because they can’t find both in one. If they find the guy, they will eat his shit to stay in the relationship. Alpha Provider = peak sexual market value.

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      • Well put Rollo

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    • I think alphas rarely decide to be providers because it opens them up to be cuckolded. They arent exactly immune to it, as women want genes from as many alphas as possible. An alpha can have any women he wants so why get cuckolded when you can get betas to raise your child instead? Betas have to be providers, because they lack the options the alpha has. The alpha has options, and to limit his option to one women is evolution wise very stupid.

      For one, your done spreading your seed far and wide, and two your opening yourself up to be cuckolded. Paternity testing is new. Before that, you almost had no way to know because babies evolved to look alike as to fool men into raising other men’s children.

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      • Again, you are misinformed, and your speech shows it.

        An alpha has ACCESS to women, he does not get all women. I suggest you seriously study how mammals [and hell even lizards, fish, and insects,] select their mates.

        ITS A SEXUAL DESIGNATION. YOU COMPETE AGAINST ANOTHER MALE FOR SEX.

        I really don’t know how to put it better, and if you are read this blog, and “claim,” to know anything about evolution or biology, you should know better.

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      • When did I say a alpha gets every single woman? Holy crap what the hell are you even blabbering about?

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  10. Even worse, Blunt, older MRAs who have checked out of the gene pool (voluntarily according to their hamsters), will not be able to advocate properly for most of their own rights where those rights refer to access to sexual opportunities with women. Witness one at Inmalafide who writes that, since doesn’t have the charm and looks to date a 17 year old, none of us can and, therefore, no MRA needs to oppose new age of consent laws.

    [Heartiste: Older family men oppose lowering age of consent laws because they fear that their daughters will succumb to the sexual sensation of a skilled and mature seducer.]

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    • But the new laws raising the age have all happened recently and not when older family men controlled the state governments. The US has been around for 230 years but the new laws have been around 15 years.

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      • Those older family men also had an institution called the “shotgun wedding”.

        A high percentage of the teenage pregnancy cases involve a father over the age of 18. So raising the age of consent makes sense according to the internal logic of the welfare state.

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  11. That meme would make guys like this alpha:

    http://www.celebuzz.com/2011-09-26/style-exposed-sperm-donor-sneak-peek-video/

    He may also be the wimpiest beta out there. Can’t conclude anything.

    We are not consciously trying to pass our genes. Alphas are the ones who are successfully acting on the unconscious impulse to do so.

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    • “Ben” is a complete idiot. He will have to build a spreadsheet to track all the names of his genetic offspring and hand them out to the ones raised under his own roof twenty years from now…”By the way, don’t have children with any of the names listed here. You wouldn’t want a kid with increased chances of birth defects.”

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  12. Not making this up: Albright says Herman Cain didn’t consult with her, but did consult with Kissinger, because she was “the wrong gender”

    http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/albright-cain-didnt-call-me-because-im-female

    Is it any wonder that Cain’s poll numbers are going through the roof as a result of things like this and the sex harassment allegations?

    Meanwhile, a religious right male radio host in Iowa is trying to destroy Cain for being a womanizer with the radio host’s own female staff:

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/iowa-radio-host-steve-deace-calls-herman-cain-compromised-in-his-private-life/

    Watch the Cain poll numbers rise further.

    Except, one of the female accusers will be releasing a detailed statement today as a gag order has apparently been lifted. We’ll get a Paula Jones moment in a few hours or minutes, but this time the male vote might jump for Cain from the left and the right depending on the details.

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    • Here’s what the religious right talk show host has to say about Herman Cain after Cain apparently told the receptionist at his studio that she was a very pretty young woman:

      “Many a man has been done in by the inability to control his urges,” Deace wrote. “I am no different and just as vulnerable as any other man, which is why I put safeguards around me and hold myself accountable to my wife and other men in my life. Especially since I have very talented employees that happen to be women. I go out of my way to treat them like my sisters. For example, I wouldn’t tell them or any other woman I am not married to nor related to how pretty she is.”

      Now, if one looks at a photo of the talk show host, one can see that he isn’t vulnerable at all in terms of the opportunity to cheat on his wife.

      Cain may not be alpha, however, if he’s calling women pretty and they’re not liking it, but there would be a few complaining after the fact, especially for political reasons, even if he were a charming alpha.

      [Heartiste: In the “defining an alpha male” post, it was pointed out that some conventionally high status men, like Cain, might not be alpha because they are awkward around women. Iow, being a leader of men does not necessarily mean you are a winner of pussy (although that is normally the way to bet). So Cain might be a clumsy beta with women, or he might be an alpha who gets complacent when hitting on chicks because he expects them to fall at his cock, or he might just be a famous guy that self-aggrandizing whores from his past now see as a ticket to fame and riches.]

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    • on November 4, 2011 at 3:08 pm Obstinance Works

      It’s like Jimmy Kimmel said last night that maybe America needs another horny President.

      America needs to learn the difference between a proposition and harassment. Personally, I don’t see how a woman couldn’t view either one as a compliment.

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  13. on November 4, 2011 at 2:51 pm Obstinance Works

    No mention of marriage in there. I guess all the men should do their best Wilt Chamberlain impersonation. F that! Just chain those hos up and let the tribal leaders rape the shit out of them until they pop.

    And the Rick Santorum folk conveniently forget what Jesus and his crew thought about this entire family entitlement boooooo-shit:

    Mat 19:10 The disciples said, “If that’s how it is between a man and a woman, it’s better not to get married.”
    Mat 19:11 Jesus told them, “Only those people who have been given the gift of staying single can accept this teaching.

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Now give me some mo’ pert nippy-num-nums!

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  14. Our biology means we always choose sex, because that led to children. In the age of contraception our biology has not adapted to make us choose children, now that the link of inevitable pregnancy has been severed.

    [Heartiste: Correct. We can speculate as to how evolution will respond to this quandary. Perhaps males will evolve supersperm that can punch through condom walls. Or, more likely, the children of the future will be born to people who really really love kids.]

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    • on November 4, 2011 at 6:01 pm The Real Vince

      Or, more likely, the children of the future will be born to people who really really love kids.

      Or people who are too stupid and/or impulsive to use protection, which is why many will say contraceptives and abortion are dysgenic.

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      • on November 6, 2011 at 1:25 am humansocialdynamics

        It really just creates a speciation pressure tho. Smart people will evolve to really like children and invest heavily in them. Dumb people already following a “live fast die young leave slutty children” strategy will have to evolve a way to stop using contraception, such as being really impulsive. But can you really see much interbreeding occurring between those two groups?

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      • If you want to look only 100 years into the future, we can use the present as some sort predictive tool.

        But genetic engineering and other unknowable technologies are not going to stand still.

        At some point in the future, offspring will not be about the dna that the parents were born with.

        But this concept can not be heard.

        This concept will not be heard.

        This concept can not exist, and will not exist. Because people have deep rooted biological instincts, and this concept can not exist meaningfully in relationship to their instincts.

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  15. From an evolutionary perspective the poster is absolutely correct, and ch knows this but would rather not admit it, being childless (by choice I would think).

    A super alpha spreads his seed willy nilly. You have not.

    [Heartiste: An alpha male who has spread his seed willy nilly into the reservoir tip of a condom or a pill-protected womb is still an alpha male. So the question becomes: are you trying to be stupid or does it come naturally?]

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    • I just said today that if I were a dude I’d want to be the warlord who is the guy all the Irish can trace their gene back to.

      What’s the point of being alpha (other than sex) if you can’t father a nation?

      From an Evolutionary Point of View the Most Alpha is the One Who Leaves the Most Children.

      In modern times…that would be Jim Bob Duggar and Black Pimps. Is Jim Bob Alpha? No of course not.

      But he’s managed to accomplish the same goal as the Days of Old Alphas.

      Where I differ is…..

      I think a Beta’s best bet at Pseudo-Alphaness is to become the Jim Bob Duggar.

      A beta won’t ever sleep with Natalia Vodianova in her prime….BUT….He can spawn an entire village

      Take your picks Betas!

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      • on November 5, 2011 at 11:11 am humansocialdynamics

        Why do you care how many kids you have?

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      • on November 10, 2011 at 2:34 pm Obstinance Works

        So just donate your sperm to science and see what comes out of the lab. It doesn’t even have to be fully human. Much more radical anyway. How would a squidbilly version of me materialize? I’d rather have good sex.

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    • on November 4, 2011 at 9:24 pm humansocialdynamics

      An evolutionary perspective is simply a human-designed mental framework that creates useful predictions about biological systems. And indeed, with regards to human cognitions, you need the further addition of evolutionary psychology to keep making useful predictions.

      EP explains that evolution codes for algorithms that process information, spurring behaviour which causes biological outcomes, causing evolutionary changes to those algorithms. Right now, the algorithm that judges alphatude does not produce a maximization of reproductive opportunities. Expect to see the eventual evolution of a strong instinctual desire for children, given that our current desire for sex doesn’t cut it.

      But Heartiste is correct. Your theories produce no useful predictions about the world. Sorry dude.

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    • Read above: The designations alpha/beta are about sexual ACCESS. ACCESS. Not sexual reproduction.

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      • on November 6, 2011 at 12:38 am humansocialdynamics

        It’s about response-generation in the status judging algorithm of the relevant species if you want to get technical about it. Given that human evolution is starting to experience a certain degree of speciation pressure (nerds give birth to nerds, jocks to jocks), there’s no longer even one stable trait which can be called alpha.

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  16. Observe a harmonious and fluid balance among restraint, rarity, and quality.

    We breed lions, not rats.

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    • Um, in America we breed rats. Lots of them.

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    • Rats can breed with very selective strategy and high paternal investment, and they will still breed rats.

      Lions can breed with wanton abandon, and they will still breed lions.

      A cad who has genes that afford intelligence and sporting ability and drive and emotional balance and cheer in the top 5% of humanity can drop seeds in the worst environment and still produce superior offspring.

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  17. Most betas would be surprised if they had a DNA test done on their kids. I know of several who are raising my little ones – or not, since I doubt I was the only one using that well.

    That is where the “laws” benefit the alpha at the expense of the beta since any children produced in a marriage are almost always the responsibility of the guy that bought that cow. Is it “fair”? No, but then life has never been fair – it is what it is…

    I know the MRA guys will go apoplectic over the above, but don’t shoot the messenger… I didn’t set things up that way – but I’ll make use of it to my benefit whenever possible… 🙂

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  18. on November 4, 2011 at 3:24 pm John the Troll

    The man who impregnates most women is the real alpha man.

    The one who fucks more women without impregnated them is just a man who feels like an alpha without being a real one. A “beta” with two kids made with his own wife ( = 1 women impregnated) is more alpha than an “alpha” who fucked 100 women using contraception ( = 0 women impregnated ).

    This is a pure biological fact.

    [Heartiste: It’s like you didn’t even read the post and just wanted an excuse to spout the comforting lies that swirl around in your head.]

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    • @Heartiste:
      In 100 years both of the two men (in my example above) will be dead. By then whose seed will continue to live and reproduce?

      [Heartiste: In 100 years, both men will be dead, so from their very dead perspective it won’t matter what their recombinated seed is doing.]

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      • @heartiste: In 100 years it will matter from the perspective of the living ones.

        [Heartiste: The perpective of the potential future living ones does not determine your alphaness today.]

        Indeed, what we do doesn’t matter for us after will die. I will matter only what we leave behind.

        [What we “leave behind” won’t matter either, as we won’t have the consciousness to appreciate it.]

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      • This seems like a pretty superficial debate over categorization. Is “alpha” categorized by its inherent nature? (ability to bed chicks) Or categorized by the biological effects of its behavior? (number of surviving and reproducing offspring)

        Either could be correct. The argument should be focused on which definition SHOULD be used. I go with the inherent nature argument. I think classifying something by its effects is bad science.

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      • Of course it’s bad science. John is trying to say that new technology should have changed the very nature of what an alpha male is.

        The next logical step after saying that is that, in a hypothetical society restructured by feminism where women must reproduce only with manginas and where men with confidence and pizzazz are shot, the manginas become alphas by definition.

        In any event, I wonder what the repercussions will be in the west now that a generation or two has been born where the alpha seed was largely stopped by condoms and the lesser seed got through.

        Like


      • Alpha seed has already been passed during the last two million years.
        Most men are carrying alpha genes. The betaization process is fueled by environmental factors.

        Most of us have the potential to be alphas (read fuck as many women as possible) because our ability to seduce doesn’t depend on some genetic features, as much as it depends on personality traits that are very marginally impacted by genes, and mainly developed through life experiences and virtuous circles of trial and error.

        Feminization/Matriarchy transforms more alphas into beta herbs. Patriarchy transforms them into somehow responsible fathers. In the state of nature everyone is struggling to be the alpha. Today we are closer to the state of nature than to a matriarchy.

        The alphas who fail the environmental meta shit test automatically become betas.

        Like


      • There are different ways of having concepts. There are two general theories of truth, called the correspondence theory and the coherence theory.

        From the blogger Modern Thinker: “The correspondence theory is also called realism and is the theory used by science : it assumes that an object is what it appears to be, that is, an object is made of matter. In this theory, objects are independent of the observer who is looking at them, so they are not mental creations.

        The coherence theory assumes that objects are not self-evident – their existence has to be explained. This theory is rather like a jigsaw puzzle ; every bit of explanation has to be mutually compatible with all other bits, so that everything fits together coherently. Any contradiction indicates a defect in the theory. The thinker searches for patterns in ideas over the whole range of his interests. For example, the patterns of power that he detects in forms of religion need to be compatible with patterns of power in other domains, such as social relationships. Hence the coherence theory is the hallmark of system thinking. System thinking is pattern thinking.”

        The platonic ideas that some like to have for alpha is that alpha is a thing. But PUAs use a coherence theory and use the term as a tool. Alpha is a function and the idea is used in how it fits into a system of thought.

        I like to say that for the purposes of attraction, we use the term alpha to mean ALL TRAITS THAT ARE SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE TO WOMEN.

        Therefore a higher than average amount of wealth and power, as they are traits that sexually arouse women, would be alpha traits. So would charisma be.

        This simple definition squares completely well with other theories of social dominance, as social dominance in the animal kingdom is used chiefly in order to attract mating partners.

        Like


      • on November 5, 2011 at 5:05 am Too Smart To Fail

        I agree with Anon here, the majority of people are reproducing given we have 7 billion people running around this planet. Yet, these people are average, both the parents and the offspring, and are not having problems with sexual access or reproduction. But, half of them 3.5 billion, being male, must be alpha since they’re fucking, which reverts back to anon’s statement of ‘alpha’ genes’ being passed down through generations.

        Heartiste, you know that the alpha hs quarterback that now changes oil for a living is not the alpha of the hs dork who now makes a half a mil doing brain surgery. Since when does does future potential for a man degrade with age like that of a woman?

        John, the legacy of both wealth and offspring is inherently more important than phantom fucking, ‘or shooting into contraception walls’. What we do leave behind is the most important, because we do die. And I have a conciousness of how that wealth will be distributed for generations after me to my offspring, like kings and queens! I don’t need to be conscious of that when I’m dead. Much better than leaving behind used condum’s that’s for sure!

        Like


      • on November 6, 2011 at 1:29 am humansocialdynamics

        Scientists tend to avoid these stupid philosophical arguments by asking not “what is true” but instead “what will generate a useful prediction”. Alpha is just a word that is a pale shade of a far more complicated reality. Stop twisting yourself into knots over it.

        Or, if you’d like a definition: alpha is whatever generates the strongest response in the social status judging module of a particular human, and thus varies (a little) depending on the observer.

        Like


      • For you alpha has some relationship to meaningful and important legacy.

        That’s because you have a strong biological urge to have children, and your brain is trying to explain that instinct to you in words.

        It isn’t because the concept of alpha only makes logical sense in terms of having a legacy.

        Like


      • Doesn’t the success of Joseph Kennedy’s offspring make him a lot more alpha especially since we know he had access to the best Hollywood had to offer and did?

        Like


  19. Related to Alpha definition: Dating Market Test for Men-

    Why isn’t number of sexual partners by age 30, 35 or 40 one of the critieria? Very few things are as determinative of future likelihood than past performance.

    I would suggest that one would have to be at least a higher beta to bed 15 girls by 30. Probably should use 30 or younger as the cut off age since some alphas do get married at 30 or younger which would artificially lower their number.

    Like


    • I’m splitting hairs here probably, but I’d say age 40 is a better pivot point than 30. A lot of guys (*cough*) get married too young which puts an artificial pause in their number.

      I’m about 35 and my count is about 20, but that count was stuck at 8 for a looong time.

      Like


    • A man can change his life direction at any age. Blogs are full of tales of guys with low number counts finding their third leg and getting a gallop on.

      Like


  20. “The alpha male isn’t the one who can get the most hot women, it’s the one who leaves behind the most children. By that measure, childless gamers are beta.”

    The alpha male is the one who can get the most hot women pregnant with practically no time or financial commitment.

    I’d say Obama’s dad is right up there. Crank out 10-15 kids with numerous women around the world and one is bound to be leader of the most powerful country.

    Like


  21. Fertility is what makes women sexually attractive. Youth, facial symmetry, breasts: all boner inducing because these qualities indicate she can bear a child. I wonder how many men would find the idea of siring multitudes of kids pleasing if child support was a non-issue?

    The idea of leaving behind a huge genetic legacy (à la Genghis Khan) is very appealing to my ego.

    Like


    • No, such features should mean she should bear a healthy child (because she won’t pick a loser of a guy). Most ugly women can get pregnant too.

      Like


  22. “The alpha male isn’t the one who can get the most hot women, it’s the one who leaves behind the most children. By that measure, childless gamers are beta.” From a very narrow, biologically reductionist point of view, the statement is true so far as it goes,

    [Heartiste: It’s true in a world where convenient and reliable contraceptives don’t exist. Since they do exist, even the narrow definition has to include those alpha males who attract women but thwart their gene’s end goal of procreation.]

    but it still totally manages to miss the point – what Alpha males want is sex, not progeny.

    [Yes, every man wants sex. That betas will eventually squirt out a couple of kids with a has-been doesn’t mean they are the alphas of the human kingdom.]

    Like


  23. That’s so absurd that it doesn’t even qualify as anti-game meme, since it implicitly acknowledges that learning game will enable a man to have more children if he so chooses.

    Like


  24. “That betas will eventually squirt out a couple of kids with a has-been doesn’t mean they are the alphas of the human kingdom”

    That should close the discussion.
    Next!

    Like


  25. Regardless of what they do before, during, or after the mating process, alphas put themselves in a position to monopolize the best mates possible, and thereby pass their genes down with the best possible matches. Who’s the alpha, a guy with 10 beta kids or a one with 5 alpha kids?

    Like


    • Alphas don’t always use the sexual strategy of monopolizing a mate.

      A woman can get pregnant from one fuck. Your genes don’t care who raises your kid.

      Like


  26. “The alpha male isn’t the one who can get the most hot women, it’s the one who leaves behind the most children.”

    Someone has mixed up their definitions…they confused “alpha male” with “prolific father”.

    Like


  27. on November 4, 2011 at 7:31 pm Born Again Alpha

    Hmmmm. The most alpha guys I know raise an above average number of kids AND fuck tons of hot young girls. The best manage to do a great job at both endeavors.

    Like


  28. An anti-PUA horror film would be “Teeth” from 2007. It’s very camp. You have to see it.

    Like


  29. I’d rather fuck one Bond Girl than produce 5 little mongs with an assortment of ghetto trash fatties.

    Like


  30. Who ever came up with this meme is obviously some beta bitch boy who is trying to bandage his tender, bruised ego after realizing he has to share his fat cow of a wife with his own 2 children, and her bastard spawn from an absentee alpha.

    Like


  31. CH,

    Nice, cutting replies in this thread. I enjoyed reading them. It’s good to mock the willful stupidity of men too dim to grasp the reality of contraception.

    People *hate* to admit — to take a great example — that someone like Berlusconi is as alpha as it comes. That’s what their whining boils down to. They want to shame seducers as “douchebags.”

    O ye wretched bagless manginae!

    So many haters glumly infest this sphere.–

    Like


    • I enjoy disagreeing with people, when there is some sport in it.

      But I get no pleasure in arguing with retards. Sometimes I’ll just give up on people, and let em mouth their inanities.

      King A for instance, now no longer inspires any argument from me.

      Like


  32. In a video…

    Like


  33. Wow this argument is stupid. It’s basically redefining alpha just because of a technology that has existed a blip on the evolutionary timescale. The logic that must follow from this is that a woman who has had all types of plastic surgery to go from Big Bertha to looking like Britney Spears c. 1999 is not a 8+.

    Technology is the delimitating factor in both cases; evolution isn’t smart enough to make men magically not sprout a hardon for a hot chick just because she was ugly before nip-tuck. Similarly, evolution is not smart enough to make women desire genuine alphas less just because the actual act of sex won’t produce children. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot, a troll, or both.

    Like


  34. Newton don’t had ANY children. So Tesla. In fact, both where something like virgins, or closeted homos. Omegas, in game terminology.

    Zero children. Like you.

    Like


  35. I know plenty of lowlife thugs with 5 or 6 children. And never wasted money or time in raise them.

    They are true alphas.

    Like


    • “child support” laws,like domestic violence laws,were never meant for niggers,even tho its niggers who least support their kids and most beat they bitchez.(White men of course do this the least–and we’re the ones who are of course brutally attacked the MOST. hate feminist cunts yet? ) Theyre an attack on white betas,to tear down the white family. Its kind of a joke that so many resources have to be wasted to try and make the niggers(and now,the mexicans)be good pussy-whipped beta white guys! Domestic Violence Court is jammmed 24/7–with minorities,not a feminist cunt in sight!

      Like


    • on November 10, 2011 at 2:26 pm Obstinance Works

      Your taxes do.

      Like


  36. on November 5, 2011 at 2:36 am Dr. Van Nostrand

    Who was more alpha? Paris or Menelaus?

    Like


  37. Sex is pleasure. Seeing your healthy, happy grandchildren growing to honorable manhood and motherhood is one of life’s greatest satisfaction.

    Just having non-productive sex with multiple women is fine but it can well be a vice and ultimately a waste of energy. In most modern cases, having productive sex with a number of women means leaving a large number of bastards (remember THAT word?) and dependent welfare idiots. In olden days, you will be the cause of number of starving babies. How would that feel, “Mr. Alpha Male?” You would also rightly be considered a menace to society.

    No, the real winning game plan is having a large number of healthy, balanced, secure children, ones that you love and care and provide for.

    Biologists rate the “fitness” of an individual not by the number of copulations but by the number of grandchildren Fitness and your concept of “alpha” may diverge but I’d recommend the former as a better life goal.

    Like


  38. OT…. you don’t have any children on your own. But, somewhere, in an not so distant place in EEUU, some single mother are rising some bastard offspring of some deadbeat thug with the money of your taxes.

    Do you feel alpha now?

    Like


  39. To: Middle and high social class PUA’s with no offprings.
    From: YO
    Subject: You have won the genetic Lottery!!!!

    Dear PUA: I glad to inform you that your “alpha” genes have been selected to be removed from the gene pool and remplaced with TRUE Alpha genes from true Dark Triad lowlife thugs.

    Congrats!!!!

    Like


  40. A super alpha who got every woman he met pregnant would quickly be put out of action by child support payments and the law. Condoms do have a relatively high rate of failure, likewise with the pullout method. By using them you make likely that there will be women with your babies, but they won’t know that you’re the father and they can continue spreading the love.

    Like


  41. Most of this war of the “memes” (and 100% of the “stupid[ity]”) is attributable to defining alpha differently.

    Ethology defines alpha as the individual animal of the highest rank in any given community. If the community goal is infertile sex — as it is with PUAs — then we will define alpha as the one who dominates that category. If the goal is reproduction — as it is with whoever the hell ch is responding to, never met the herb — then we will define alpha as the one with the biggest brood.
    Only recently has it become possible to have lots of sex with lots of different women without lots of offspring. That’s not attributable to contraception alone; unabashed and unprecedented female looseness contributes. Therefore, only recently has it become possible to separate the definitions.

    But again, ch’s concept of alpha is defined exclusively through sexual conquest. It makes sense in a pick-up blog to restrict the definition to that narrow category, but it does not give the fullest picture of what alpha truly is. While this works for The Chateau’s limited purposes, it falls apart once you start applying it to dynamics other than the sexual. (Seek no further proof of this than the godawful attempts to apply pick-up logic to politics, race, etc.) ch’s unattributed interlocutor applies it to family and reproductive dynamics, and ch takes the bait, insisting his narrow field is the exclusive defining field.

    The confusion is caused as much by the Chateau as it is by Mr. Anonymous Beta Promise Keeper. If you are going to appropriate an ethological term for your own narrow purposes, then don’t have a fit when others apply it to their own. Stay on point.

    Like


  42. The concept of alpha is broader than tallying up and comparing beaver collections. (Or is Bob Crane/Wilt Chamberlain the supermega-alphas of all time?) The Chateau acknowledges this in its own diversions away from pick-up. Now if only gamers can see pussy as the sweet fruit at the end of a feast — rather than recommending a monomaniacal diet of donuts — we’d be getting back to the original and expansive definition of alpha.

    The pussy hunt in isolation withers and dies, like a potted plant whose soil has never been changed. You can imitate the alpha traits that women find sexually stimulating, but without backing them up with some kind of substance, the “game” exposes itself. What’s even worse, this monomania and deception deceives the gamer into being unaware of the exposure. Monomania makes one a parody, an unwitting buffoon, rather like a cougar who fancies herself the equivalent of a 20-year-old. There are only so many pools of ungamed women to play tricks on before the shyster affect begins growing into the wrinkles of your face.

    This more than anything explains the Chateau’s foray into broader topics than gaming the local co-eds, such as feminism, long-term relationships, libertarian economics, and *gasp* advice to forlorn females.

    Like


  43. So what is the difference from an only Chinese male child who never gets inside a woman due to the gender imbalance and a Western hot shot alpha who screws hundreds of women but never has an offspring?

    The phrase “Empty Branch” applies to both.

    Like


    • on November 5, 2011 at 10:09 pm humansocialdynamics

      The difference is that you’re applying a biological model to a sociological situation. Wrong model, useless predictions.

      Like


      • Biology is a science and reflective of reality. Sociology is liberal bogosity and a chick’s major.

        If the predictions contradict, go with biology.

        Screwing many women without progeny is the same as fighting and winning many battles on your XBox. Both are ultimately pointless activities.

        A man who does engage successfully in gaming women into sex does give himself valuable skills for finally finding and impregnating a high value female which usually leads to successful children so it’s not a complete was of time and energy.

        I’ll also grant it is great fun.

        Like


      • on November 7, 2011 at 2:59 am humansocialdynamics

        When I say sociological situation I’m not saying “use sociological theories”. After all, you are correct, science has not produced any good ones, and those that we do have have been twisted to serve political ends.

        But that doesn’t mean you can blindly apply biological concepts either. Game and alphaness do not exist to produce offspring. End of story. You can’t make value judgements on something and say you’re being logical just because you’ve twisted a scientific model into an inappropriate environment.

        Why the fuck does it matter how many kids you have??

        Like


  44. Loving the blog – wish I had found it earlier.

    Question for you. This year a combination of things – near death of a close relative (mortality check) and a surprising amount of financial prosperity (don’t have to rely on others/supplicate myself to a boss anymore) – have turned me into something of an alpha.

    I thought this change would increase the amount of closes I’m getting, but it has actually been the worst year for me (only 3 lays total this year).

    Here’s what’s happening. Girls at first think I’m a beta (I’m naturally very nice to everyone, and have a somewhat annoying beta voice tone and wear glasses more often than not) – then they try to pull some shit on me. Showing up 45 minutes late to a date, bringing a male friend along, harping on me for the industry I’m in, or some other totally weird crap.

    Whereas I used to put up with this crap and play the numbers – every once in a while closing – now I simply call them out.

    ‘Where are you?’ a text I get when a girl shows up to a venue 45 minutes after our scheduled meeting time.

    ‘Oh, I’m not there anymore. Waited 20 minutes – then decided to bag it,’ I reply.

    She’s offended and never reaches out again.

    Calling them out on neurotic and disrespectful behavior now comes naturally to me, but instead of them apologizing and begging for a second chance, they are writing me off.

    I don’t understand why as a broke beta I was getting more lays than I am now as a wealthy quasi alpha / sometimes beta.

    Any tips would be truly appreciated as this drought is starting to shake me a bit. Don’t think I can go back to allowing women to walk all over me, but calling them out doesn’t seem to do the trick either. It just gratifies my ego.

    Like


    • How long a time period and how many dates are you extrapolating your generalizations from?

      Like


    • I experienced the same results during my first year of being unplugged — I was getting less success as a try-hard alpha than a natural higher beta.

      In my case, I attribute the observation to being an issue of calibration. Amused mastery is a concept that is easy to grasp but hard to execute without lots of experimental experience to base your calibration upon as each particular situation presents its own custom set of dials and levers for tweaking.

      Game works. But it takes a while to be good at it. Especially if you started late.

      Like


    • on November 7, 2011 at 8:48 am humansocialdynamics

      Honestly, I hate the “calling out disrespectful behaviour” frame. It just puts you in a combative frame which she’ll feed off of. Sure, for some guys it works, especially if they can establish a lot of attraction. but it’ll just as soon drive girls away.

      Try shifting to friendly teasing. It sounds like you’re still beta enough that girls that are attracted to you are in a resource seeking frame, so if you totally blow that off by using dick-alpha you’ll drive them away. Be friendlier and call them out with friendly teasing and non-reactivity.

      And most importantly, experiment. Try lots of different stuff and don’t be afraid of looking like a dick in the shorter t. Once you do get it, 5 minutes of alpha will cure whatever mistakes you’ve made in the past.

      Like


      • Humansocialdynamics – Great feedback, thank you man. I’m going to try friendly teasing, don’t know why that didn’t occur to me – their flakiness is a perfect opportunity to use the cocky & funny I used to do with some success when I was a full beta.

        Like


  45. I’m a lurker here, but I think even I can begin to help you with this. Look at the facts: a girl shows up 45 mins late, then texts you with a brief, demanding question, to which you respond. Did you respond right away? You don’t specify that, but it’s important.

    Second, look at the form your response took – two sentences, with faux-nonchalant grammar and usage. Much longer than her text.

    Third, the content of your response – you actually answered her question! Not only that, you explained yourself to her! You told her that you showed up on time (beta), then patiently waited for twenty minutes (beta) and then “bagged it” whatever that means. Go back to the facts: she shows up late, and she texts a demanding question. You have zero obligation to respond, much less right away, and definitely zero obligation to actually answer her question. What has she learned here? She has learned that she can show up 45 mins late, and you are still at her beck and call. The fake nonchalance of your text that I mentioned above is something that she can see through easily, if the other facts point to you being beta. So, of course, she flaked out.

    I honestly don’t know what a better answer would have been via texting, perhaps a single “?” would be better. Other, more experienced people, can help you more. The best answer, of course, would be to go out, find two hot chick to hang at your elbows, and then accidentally run into the original date. Then, if it was meant to be, it was meant to be, if it was meant to be a foursome, go forth boldly, and if not, hey, you still have two hotties to choose from.

    Also, one last point: what you are doing is clearly NOT gratifying your ego. In fact, you sound frustrated in your post, not gratified. Gratification would be if you got to bang the girl, or at least had the option to. I’m guessing that the whole “gratifying my ego” thing is just the male version of the rationalization hamster, as in, you didn’t get the girl, but at least your ego is gratified. I would avoid that, it will only keep you attached to your current technique, which is clearly not working.

    Like


    • on November 10, 2011 at 2:06 pm Obstinance Works

      Good take.

      The best response? You’re a real bitch. I hate you. Never want to see you again. Simple enough. Then she can jump through all the hoops you send her way if that’s what you want. Stay in control.

      Like


  46. Can you elaborate?

    Like


  47. I think it is important to note here that, woman control the impregnation process. Meaning THEY choose which male will impregnate them. From my experience being an alpha male, woman chose to take the route of having a kid for me as a way to lock me into a ltr, regardless of my capacity for being a provider.

    So for me and what i think the ultimate alpha traits are:
    – sleep with the highest quality, best looking, potential mothers
    – convince to go off of birth control and use no condoms
    – Impregnate these women to spread your genes
    – financially provide for these kids
    – pass on your alpha traits to both boy and girl kids

    Studies show that one of the main factors of a childs personality are genes, meaning u can pass on alot, without being physically present.
    Due to the breakdown of the family it has lead to a lot of kids beimg raised by the mothers and the result is confused and lost kids.

    That is what i feel my calling is, impregnate the highest quality chicks across the planet. Ultimatly they want kids from the alpha males.

    Also add to the list of not being controlled by these women using the kids. For that, stay away from western women and the court system.

    Like


    • Black

      From my experience being an alpha male, woman chose to take the route of having a kid for me

      Yeah, but you blacks are lucky:
      you always find sixteen or seventeen
      women to have a kid with

      Like


  48. […] can’t ever remember disagreeing with Heartiste, but I disagree with this post: Alpha males who use game to attract women are doing those things which favor passing on their DNA […]

    Like