Picking Up Girls Using The iPhone

I was discussing the potential of iPhone game recently with a couple of buddies. One of my friends had gotten the new iPhone and was giddily sampling all the apps like a kid at Christmas, when we stumbled across some novel uses for the phone as a tool to satisfy men’s insatiable sexual demands.

There is an app that acts like a lie detector. You speak to the phone (using its voice recognition capabilities) and the app calculates the truth content of your statement. Obviously, it’s not truth serum, but it makes for excellent opener material.

You sidle up to a chick, tossing your monstrous cock over your shoulder and out of the way. “Hey, check this out.”

Chick: “What?”

“Say something about yourself to the phone. It’ll tell you how truthful you are. Here, like this: ‘The girl I’m talking to feels dizzy in my presence’.” You press the analyze button. “Hm, 99% truthful. Do you need to sit down for a minute?”

You can go in all sorts of directions with this basic iPhone game template. For instance, walk up to a set and tell the girls you found a new app that guesses their ages. Then hold the phone up, wave it over them, and put it back down with a worried look on your face. “Hm, must be miscalibrated. Nevermind. I don’t think you guys are cougars, yet.”

Another opener: “I’ve got a new app that tells me which girls like me.” Hold phone up to group. “OK, you guys are gonna have to decide who gets the first crack. I’m a one woman kind of man.”

For the truly advanced womanizer, there is a free app for the iphone from the website Loopt.com described as a “social compass” which allows you to GPS track anyone within the loopt network. Now you can turn all your number closes into coordinates on a map for convenient stalking. You can “happen” to “run into” twenty girls a day for followup game. The sky’s the limit.

The world is moving toward a pickup nirvana, connecting alphas with the hot chicks who would love them. The job, house, marriage and kids never seemed more anachronistic.





Comments


  1. on June 22, 2009 at 11:51 am Sebastian Flyte

    Do the Ross Jeffries opener on the iphone painting application – act all serious like you’re painting her, then show her a crappy stick-figure.

    Like


  2. Want to swoop some fly girls?
    Theres an app for that.

    Like


  3. on June 22, 2009 at 12:01 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    It’s fun but seems to too gimmicky for me. There’s a opener I use once in a while on LOUD dance floors where I use text language to open girls, it works fine because of the novelty but I only use it after having serious blowouts to perk up again…

    Like


  4. I usually roll with a Cray Super computer in my Maserati when I swoop fly girls at the club. It let’s me mine meld with them and my Brioni suits.

    Like


  5. It’s amazing how gullible females are regarding technology. the age/cougar “app” is money. Could also be used as a subtle neg for a real hot cougar – if one was so inclined to snag grannies.

    As for the “Lie Detector App” I’ll stick with my Dad’s method: suspect deception as long as they have a pulse.

    Like


  6. on June 22, 2009 at 12:09 pm Gunslingergregi

    I pick up every fucking girl that falls into the 5 foot radius around me.

    Like


  7. on June 22, 2009 at 12:12 pm Gunslingergregi

    Any luck with the apocalypse Roissy?

    Like


  8. “The job, house, marriage and kids never seemed more anachronistic.”

    For alphas. Nothing has changed for betas with no game and limited knowledge of divorce laws.

    Like


  9. I agree, it seems a little gimmicky and dorky. not that it couldn’t work, but my suspicion is you’d get more eye-rolling than anything else. the problem is it focuses the interaction on a geeky, trendy device – one that’s pretty prominent in the culture, but still, a geeky trendy device. so even though it’s an Apple product, you’d probably come across more as John Hodgman than Justin Long.

    geo-locator thing more intriguing and promising, legal and social concerns aside. stalking is the wrong concept, though you were most likely exaggerating, but being able to track your objects of desire and show up alongside them in public unexpectedly … cool. although, it goes in reverse – if your girls were tech-savvy enough (a big if), they could track you too. which is a pretty big downside for the harem utopia you painted… who wants jilted ex-es stalking *you* around.

    i’m pretty sure loop’d and the others have a disable feature, so you can turn off the ability of others to track you. so why wouldn’t a cheating girlfriend do the same… trouble in e-paradise.

    Like


  10. F. Roger Devlin is a very prescient man. I wonder what his observations on the potential of GPS-tools might be long term.

    Think about getting some sort of GPS-signal if you are rated a “7” or above at a website like Hotornot.com or whatever. Then your phone could tell you how many hotties are at any potential shopping mall or resturaunt or street at any given time, so you dont waste time going to places with no quarry to hunt, oops I mean girls to game.

    Its like a video game writ large with real people.

    Like


  11. Here is an article about how feminists steered the stimulus money to create bullshit jobs for women, while not creating necessary jobs for men :

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/659dkrod.asp?pg=2

    Like


  12. I refuse to contribute to popularity of GPS stuff like loopt.com and google latitude. Any benefit a man can get from it will be far outweighed by the new opportunities a chick will have to keep tabs on you.

    Like


  13. @FP – see, that and the “which girls like me” fake app were the ones i thought were cheesy and stupid. only a moron could believe an electronic device could do that. girls aren’t tech-savvy but they usually aren’t morons at that level, at least in DC*. the lie-detector might work better, if cleverly applied, because that’s a real app (however bogus any data it might spit out) that has been in the press, and is an example of the usual kind of “chick crack” that works in those situations.

    *I often wonder about the geographic appropriateness of pickup lines and approaches. I thought about this while reading “The Game”. Style could use lines like “do you think spells work?” with the dumb aspiring actresses and couch-castees of the Sunset Strip, yet if you used that same line in a bar in DC – where the hot young girl is likely to be an Ivy League grad or sharp lawyer or whatever – she’d laugh in your face. I think this phenomenon appies to iPhone game (yecch, even the phrase is disturbing) – it might work in certain times and places, but probably not everywhere.

    Like


  14. You know, I was thinking. This whole thing should be turned into a movie.

    In an age where women reign and men suffer from blue balls every night…one…man…will rise.

    Presenting….

    SUPERALPHA:

    Taking creeper to a whole new level with his iPhone apps.

    Superalpha: Ladies, wherever you are, I am.

    (cutscene to outside of girls’ locker room with very loud audible screams).

    SUPERALPHA: Coming to you EVERYWHERE by next Fall. LITERALLY.

    I smell a blockbuster hit.

    Like


  15. I paint my cock up like an iPhone, blow a load in a chick’s face, and tell her it’s a feature, not a bug.

    Like


  16. Theres an application but on the itouch. The one which tells you how your feeling. I used it once on a potential LTR, and the igod spoke and said feeling “sexy.” A women just touches the screen with one finger and it states her mood and a background color along with it.

    Like


  17. @mandy, affe- not bad. default will need to show up and blow us away with even better humor.

    Like


  18. Nah.

    Like Joe, I too like staying off the grid as much as possible, on the Jason Bourne tip. No need to keep tabs on em, and I’ll contact them when I need to holla.

    In the meantime, keep it moving…

    O

    Like


  19. maurice:
    see, that and the “which girls like me” fake app were the ones i thought were cheesy and stupid. only a moron could believe an electronic device could do that.

    i thought it was fairly obvious that my iphone game examples were not to be executed with the seriousness of an end of year boardroom meeting. it doesn’t matter whether the chick actually believes there’s an age-reading app; all that matters is the cleverness and humor used to grab her attention, and the negs implied by these iphone openers.

    that some chicks might believe such apps exist and are accurate is a bonus to iphone game, not a prerequisite.

    Like


  20. @roissy – OK, noted. it’s all in the delivery, so open, move on, etc. but you’re still using a geeky device as a prop for that, when the same opener principles could work just as well without it. guess i’m not entirely on board with the point here, in which case feel free to disregard my views. i do like the lie-detector app, though – that one passes the moron test (because it’s real) and could be quite effective chick crack.

    any thoughts about my comment on the geographic/cultural applicability, or portability, of pickup? it’s actually something i have had in my mind for a long time. the principles are universal, the practice is probably not.

    Like


  21. @roissy: Exactly – women don’t need to believe your BS (especially in attraction), they just need to like it. If they like the idea of spells, lie-detecting ipod apps, or crazy ex-girlfriend drama they’ll play along.

    Like


  22. Mandy droned:

    Taking creeper to a whole new level with his iPhone apps.

    I smell a blockbuster hit

    funny, i smell an
    unused
    pussy

    Like


  23. That’s not me, I shower.

    Like


  24. on June 22, 2009 at 1:37 pm Keep a Movin' Dan

    Anyone want to start a betting pool on how long it will take for these kind of things to become pasé? And people are going to learn to hate the Loopt thing fast…

    But until that happens, great ideas.

    Like


  25. on June 22, 2009 at 1:45 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Think about getting some sort of GPS-signal if you are rated a “7″ or above at a website like Hotornot.com or whatever.

    Yes. 7+ girls totally need to go out of their way to be approached more.

    Way to go.

    Like


  26. on June 22, 2009 at 1:46 pm ironrailsironweights

    There’s a new iPhone app that lets you know if a girl who’s using one has a GNP.

    Peter

    Like


  27. The GPS app must be reversible: women will make a point of collecting and collating info on beta’s to set up a virtual screen/warning device/restraining orderer. On the internet, information may not die. Computers can store bad rep behaviors and their actors into the zillions, accessible to all for a nominal fee.

    To counter that, beta’s may need to pay for jamming devices, superior tech, or learn to use 4G tactics.

    On that last, see, e.g.: “Counter measures are simple; never ever keep the phone on, or the battery in. Never store numbers in the phone, always use throwaway cell phones and change them often. Set up prearranged talk times, and always talk on the move. Never talk in your home, or while you are stationary. Never ever send text messages, and always talk in code on the phone. Hard line to hard line is the best way to call if you can still find a pay phone.” http://www.lewrockwell.com/gaddy/gaddy61.1.html

    Or learn some game now.

    Like


  28. on June 22, 2009 at 2:10 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    I don’t like drama and don’t want any part of a man who has it.

    You may genuinely, in your heart of hearts, think you don’t like drama. You really may.

    But.

    Your life history, your preferences in men, and the tenor of almost every post with which you have beshitted this blog suggest otherwise.

    THINK about this for a few minutes before responding. Do not just crap out the first words that come to mind, since I (and anyone on here with sense) already know what those are.

    Like


  29. Peter, being deliberately unlikeable is a personality disorder.

    Stop being social, you diseased freak.

    Like


  30. epoxy on LR:
    You may genuinely, in your heart of hearts, think you don’t like drama. You really may.

    But.

    Your life history, your preferences in men, and the tenor of almost every post with which you have beshitted this blog suggest otherwise.

    beautiful, man.

    Like


  31. @epoxy – that was my advice to LR weeks ago – think before you post. she’s not dumb, and sometimes has worthwhile things to say, but those are overwhelmed by the frequent, obtuse stream-of-consciousness posts from the gut, meaning with no logic attached. it’s OK to challenge a comment or a poster, if it’s done in a reasonable way.

    Like


  32. Mandy explained:

    That’s not me, I shower.

    showering still does not constitute

    proper usage of said orifice

    Like


  33. maybe it’s bc I have always lived in one or another of the bitch cities, but geeky devices and other indicia of mild nerdiness are kind of charming and attractive. Combine with some biceps, complete reasonable sentences, and a cute smile and it works. I’m pretty sure my friends and I would snicker at the above … and then half the ladies would whip out their own iphones.

    Like


  34. maurice

    “*I often wonder about the geographic appropriateness of pickup lines and approaches.”

    In my opinion, even though people are becoming more and more the same everywhere, Game is extremely regional.

    The big picture concepts are universal, but what works in one city will not work as well in another city.

    DC is one of those cities that requires a very specific type of Game.

    Goofy, easy going Southern California beach Game won’t get you too far in DC.

    Vise versa. Any type of intellectualized, serious type Game goes over like a led zeppelin on the west coast beaches.

    NYC, LA, Miami Beach and Chicago (since they are on the same circuit) can have very similar Game styles.

    (This is mostly referring to swooping local girls in each spot.)

    – MPM

    Like


  35. on June 22, 2009 at 2:43 pm Willard Libby

    No. This is like a comic using props.

    iPhone = The Carrot Top of pick ups.

    Better to try a laid back Norm MacDonald style.

    Like


  36. Above is reason why you don’t see many “National” playboys.

    International Playboys, like your humble author are even more rare.

    – MPM

    Like


  37. on June 22, 2009 at 2:49 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    Eric Disco, Assanova and now Tenmagnet seems roissy’s getting noticed by professional PUAs……interesting

    Like


  38. Once, back in the day when my inner game wasn’t very thight, I approached a hot babe at a bar with an Atomic Approach. I asked her to go home with me.

    And much to my profound shrivlement, her response was a loud spray of her drink as she burst into a manic, mocking laugh, followed by these words, which will chill my soul — forever!

    Oh my God, you little geek
    Get away befoe I freak

    I’m a babe an you are not
    You can’t handle what I’ve got

    Why would I go home with you?
    You’re not fit to lick my shoe

    So ha-ha-ha, don’t make me laugh
    I want a whole man, not a half.

    In my ego-crushing mortification, with everyone at the bar now staring at me, I mustered just enough composure to ask her a follow-up question:

    “So I guess a quick blowjob in the parking lot is out of the question?”

    Like


  39. Hollywood Hotsauce chirped:

    Eric Disco, Assanova and now Tenmagnet seems roissy’s getting noticed by professional PUAs……interesting

    yep.

    $3,000 seminar offers
    can’t be far behind

    Like


  40. GMan concurs! Game is regional and highly adapted to local culture and standards. I lack your international playboy experience, but I don’t see how Chicago has anything in common with, say, Miami beach. But different cities/regions of cities have, and attract, different kinds of girls, with different goals and standards. So the male game must adapt.

    @al – “bitch cities” ? I have an idea of what you mean, but … please expound and enumerate. I can’t imagine DC would not be on that list. (also, you didn’t answer my waterfront question from the other day… .still wondering…)

    to clarify, though – roissy objected to my point that a woman would have to be a moron to believe an iPhone could read minds, guess ages, etc. or, rather, that it doesn’t matter, as long as it sets the right mood. fair enough. in techie/educated circles/cities, wouldn’t this be more the case, not less? in other words, people who actually use iPhones would be less likely to relate to them as a pickup tool, not more. your thoughts…?

    Like


  41. on June 22, 2009 at 2:59 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Tenmagnet has been posting here for over a year. At least.

    PA, I responded to your “cardio” post on the other thread. May have been lost in the noise.

    Like


  42. @FP – SJP? groan. the worst. i don’t usually post cruel humor here, but here’s my favorite SJP hate site:

    http://www.sarahjessicaparkerlookslikeahorse.com/

    @hollywood, FP – i noticed tenmagnet showing up as well. i think savoy actually posted here as well a month or so ago.

    @PA – did that chick ghost-write for Dr. Seuss? you were better off without her green eggs and ham.

    Like


  43. There should be a shit testing app, especially for LTR game. Input the shit test on your iPhone and the app generates a list of comebacks ranked by % likelihood of success. If the line achieves its desired goal and saves your enormous manhood from the evil designs of your sweetie pie, you can indicate this on the app. And of course if the line falls flat you can give it a negative rating.

    This would be a watershed moment for the seduction community. Field reports would start migrating from the PUA boards to the PUA app, inspiring a collaborative effort by the community the likes of which none of us has seen. Instead of waiting days, and sometimes weeks (and sometimes never), to post on your experiences, you can hit “yea” or “nay” on the app right away, enriching the PUA oeuvre both qualitatively (the sooner you record your experience, the more accurate) and quantitatively (a PUA app would streamline the process). Behold, the 21st century PUA!

    Like


  44. maurice

    “but I don’t see how Chicago has anything in common with, say, Miami beach.”

    They are very different, but I think you see many of the same types of people (or even the exact same people) in the big cities, where similar Game can be more universal.

    ie Chicago people going to Miami Beach in winter.

    Generally speaking, Chicago girls are more accessible to a guy with more “standardized” Game than Miami Beach.

    Chicago girls are very easy to open, hence easy to swoop.

    Miami Beach girls get pitched heavier and are probably more difficult for a guy who is not throwing heat.

    Miami Beach requires a specific skill set: Spanish speaking, Latin flair, high levels of stamina, no fear of drugs, appearance of thick cash flow, local knowledge etc.

    Any person that doesn’t think Game is regional lacks experience.

    – MPM

    Like


  45. Maurice,
    I can definitely say, that certain “routines” or “lines” will NOT work on most Black Women. Particularly the more Working Class/Hood Sistas.

    Why?

    Because they tend to be “right to the point” people. If you’re in a Black Lounge environment, like say, a Warmdaddy’s or a Zanibar Blue, then yea, a kind of culturally “tweaked” routine or two can work, because the Sistas there tend to be more upscale, college educated professionals, and like to think of themselves as more sophisticated. But even then you gotta watch it. In general, Black folk tend not to be as chatty w/folks they don’t know well, so as a rule its probably better to pare your routine down a bit.

    But going back to the Around The Way gals, yea, you gotta go Direct Game all day. Of course, there’s also the good chance that her Man may not be too far away, etc et al…lol.
    As a rule, w/Sistas, I tend to let them do the presenting; I like to do a role reversal. Which means, I look better than them, I’m sexier than them, I’m more popular than them, and simply put, am more important than them. Therefore, knowing Women as we do, they’ll want to get close to the flame, in the hopes of getting an audience with The Obsidian. If they behave themselves, they may even get to take me out.

    Because Sistas get approached in such a direct, yet crude fashion by most brothas *all the time*, both on the street and in the bar/club/lounge, I like to turn things around, so as to not waste my time frittering away my energy and time chatting to Women all night to no avail. With White Women, at least in my experience, things are infinitely much easier to pull off.

    Like this iPhone deal? White chicks will go for it. Sistas, by and large, will not.

    Just sayin.

    O

    Like


  46. on June 22, 2009 at 3:13 pm Gunslingergregi

    Quick someone copyright that shit.

    Like


  47. @maurice, I think it’s the silliness of it that would make it work, and I’m sure at least one of my gfs would whip theirs out to try on him. Don’t you just need a decent in?

    And G Man just sort of invalidated my whole point as I’m a LA-DC-NYC … though maybe not as I react to men differently when home than out here (so much more casual there allows one to be so much nicer and friendlier.)

    I meant the G’town waterfront. I have no idea how the guys managed business but they never went home alone from there.

    Like


  48. on June 22, 2009 at 3:14 pm Gunslingergregi

    The shit from butter that is the idea right there. 20 dollar a month subscriptions.

    Like


  49. Epoxytocin – saw your cardio comments. Makes sense. Thanks.

    Like


  50. Nice. I like this, Roissy. 🙂

    @ Firepower

    “It’s amazing how gullible females are regarding technology.”

    It is, isn’t it? We are just completely lost in the world of circuits and machiney things.

    @ maurice

    “I agree, it seems a little gimmicky and dorky. not that it couldn’t work, but my suspicion is you’d get more eye-rolling than anything else. the problem is it focuses the interaction on a geeky, trendy device – one that’s pretty prominent in the culture, but still, a geeky trendy device.”

    Aww…it’d be adorable if executed well. The last time I saw an iPhone, we were dipping it in BBQ sauce, but I’d still appreciate the humor.

    Like


  51. LILGRL attempted to crack wise:

    @ Firepower
    “It’s amazing how gullible females are regarding technology.”

    It is, isn’t it? We are just completely lost in the world of circuits and machiney things.

    well…just the hot ones are

    great. who rattled your cage

    Like


  52. @obs – OK, tx. most of the black girls that i am around and am attracted to are serious oreos- college educated, etc. – so are more like white girls that way. chicks from the hood probably wouldn’t be the slightest bit interested in me, and probably vice versa. (you probably coulda guessed that, though…!)

    @al – OK, so i’m the outlier here – never mind my iGame skepticism. LA is like a different planet form DC dating-wise, people-wise, etc. so if you can function well in both places, kudos to you. i spent a month in LA (August 07) and went around a lot on the town that month, basically every night. it was fun, but for this DC native, it was like another planet.

    @leopold scotch- “shit-testing app”, eh? i’d suspend my disbelief and moronically buy something like that if it existed … 🙂

    Like


  53. @Gunslingergregi

    Imagine if you had to pay 10 cents per wikipedia edit…. *sob* there’d be no wikipedia. Monetizing the pick-up app would make me rich at the expense of realizing the seduction utopia I envision.

    Like


  54. @LILGRL – yeah i’m the odd man out here. everyone else seems to like the idea a lot. Dipping an iPhone in BBQ sauce? that’s some serious iHate. Were you going to grill it in effigy…?

    Like


  55. on June 22, 2009 at 3:40 pm Willard Libby

    LILGRL – Nice. I like this, Roissy.

    Of course you would. You gooks are technology junkies.

    It’s like food to a fat girl.

    Like


  56. on June 22, 2009 at 3:42 pm Gunslingergregi

    Naaa butters the inventor comes up with the idea the marketer makes the money. I was talking about someone else copyrighting your idea.

    Like


  57. on June 22, 2009 at 3:44 pm Gunslingergregi

    “gooks’

    Ahh to be alive and in the vietnam war pricless.

    Like


  58. @willard – groan. again with the racist comments. you only make yourself look like an ass that way.

    Like


  59. @ maurice

    we were, um, testing its oliophobic screen. turns out the sauce really does wipe off quite easily. anyway the point is not to make it about technology (though the iPhone is pretty mainstream-fashionista-cool-chica stuff these days, so no worries), but to deliver it well. heh, if you’re good enough you could probably draw an iPhone on a piece of cardboard and use that as your prop, and still pull mad chicks with your little routine.

    Like


  60. PA & Epoxitocin

    is it true that if you running/jogging, it is only after the first 20-30 minutes that you start bruning body fat? A friend just told me that he lost weight because instead of running for , say, 30 minutes, he’d rather walk fast for 60, because the first option didn’t burn any fat

    Like


  61. It might be a lot harder for guys, (I can’t even really picture the differences) but all I do is adjust the level of friendliness (wattage of smile, snarkiness of responses, and height of shoes). But I don’t usually have the same aims as y’all, which is why I’m hear reading and observing.

    Like


  62. on June 22, 2009 at 3:58 pm Gunslingergregi

    “”””””””chic,
    @maurice- I really thought you were a blk guy.””””””

    Maurice is black. Chic can’t understand a black guy getting on someone for making fun of someone elses race besides black.
    Funny shit

    Like


  63. Maurice the problem is it focuses the interaction on a geeky, trendy device – one that’s pretty prominent in the culture, but still, a geeky trendy device. so even though it’s an Apple product, you’d probably come across more as John Hodgman than Justin Long.

    Maurice, if the woman you’re approaching is one who is trend and status obsessed, i-phone game will work well on her. I think I-Phone game will work well on hipster chicks too.
    Now the question is who do you know you have a status trend obsessed girl? Well the low brow trend obsessed types can be found with two of more of the following: a logoed coach bag or any high end designer logo bag(real or fake), juicy couture sweat suit(large obvious logo), talks about celebrities like they are her friends, overly manicured hair (for non black women), unnatural looking tan.

    Like


  64. @chic –

    *dead faint*

    really? i’ll take that as a compliment, I guess. i’m a 45-y.o. married overeducated white guy in the DC suburbs. act, look, and feel a lot younger tho, for what that’s worth.

    @LILGRL – ah, product testing. i see. i could never see a cardboard iPhone cutout working in real life – it would seem really goofy, like a Monty Python routine. i like to think women are more sophisticated in this in their screening. But again, i’m the outlier here, for today’s post .. everyone move on and iMultiply! don’t mind me!

    @al – well, i’m guessing the smile is for LA, the snark for DC, and the heels for NY … right? 😉

    Like


  65. on June 22, 2009 at 4:13 pm Gunslingergregi

    lol white oh shit he said he was lack before. Interesting turn of events.

    Like


  66. on June 22, 2009 at 4:13 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Butters, I like your idea, except for one little caveat: It won’t work.

    You can’t use “success percentages” independently of the identity of the PUA using the material.

    This applies ESPECIALLY to passing shit tests.

    Like


  67. Why the hell is my comment awaiting moderation, roissy?

    Like


  68. @gunny – i said i was black? really? i think i would have remembered that. i think the black commenters here are among the best (obs, kamal) and i tend to jump on people for racist comments even if i have no business doing so. sorry if that created confusion – not that it really matters, though.

    Like


  69. On second thought it might lead to a pick-up dystopia instead. Armed with iSeduce® — the world’s most advanced and accessible repository of PUA knowledge — the beta masses would start using stock lines to attract chicks and disentangle sticky situations. Even more likely, they’d butcher the delivery and render the lines unusable to genuine PUAs. Either way, PUA lines and concepts would finally filter down into the mainstream, raising the bar for us all. Men who were heretofore betas would become omegas. The rest of us — all except the men at the top of their game and the ones who possess real status — would regress into AFC betas. Omegas would start shedding their cocks. It’s all too difficult for me to talk about.

    Like


  70. on June 22, 2009 at 4:25 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Maurice, if the woman you’re approaching is one who is trend and status obsessed, i-phone game will work well on her. I think I-Phone game will work well on hipster chicks too.

    You guys are missing the point.

    The “status” aspect of the IPhone is pretty much irrelevant here, for two reasons.

    (1) Everyone and their mother has one, so the “status boost” is barely above that of, say, having two eyes.

    More importantly,
    (2) The point of introducing the IPhone here is not the IPhone itself, but, rather, the fact that it can host sundry applications that can segue into cool conversations.
    The fact that these apps are on an IPhone is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. If they were on a device with no “status boost”, such as a Nintendo DS, the Game potential would be completely unchanged.

    Like


  71. on June 22, 2009 at 4:28 pm Gunslingergregi

    could have sworn under oath before you said you weren’t lol but yea no big deal. I just don’t like niggers anyway.

    Like


  72. on June 22, 2009 at 4:29 pm Gunslingergregi

    Black human beings I am ok with.

    Like


  73. EP 87(1) Everyone and their mother has one, so the “status boost” is barely above that of, say, having two eyes.

    the status boost is still there because iPhones haven’t become played out. for a female, having an iPhone > than a brown logo LV purse. Why, because the LV purse is played.

    @maurice i’m a 45-y.o. married overeducated white guy in the DC suburbs. act, look, and feel a lot younger tho, for what that’s worth.

    I had you done as a 28-33 year old medium brown skinned blk guy who is tall, a bit handsome, smooth and also a tad shy. Your name “Maurice” is one that I’ve known a White American man have.

    @ Give a better example Willard.

    Like


  74. Chic —

    As a matter of fact … my own personal experience suggests that one should NEVER EVER:

    1. Intimate that you are familiar with or good at technology.
    2. Cook for a woman. [My biggest, most blockhead mistake EVER.]
    3. Indicate any particular interest in technology.

    Every single time I’ve done that, or seen other men do it, it’s a fricking disaster. This is why, with all due respect,

    NO MAN SHOULD EVER LISTEN … to a woman giving dating advice. Women are absolutely incapable of EVER being honest about what works with attraction.

    By contrast, I’ve done well with “sophisticated indifferent” type of Game, with specific subsets of girls, arty types, in museums, art tours, and so on. Since I LIKE Art, museums, and so on, I can talk about it enthusiastically, but with a kind of bored indifference to mask any attraction I might actually have for the girl. I become the challenge for them. [As you might expect, this requires a certain type of girl, who is sadly, rapidly disappearing, i.e. the “nice but arty” type of girl, now replaced by the “arty but slutty” girl with tats and a penchant for low-life indie rockers and flatbillers.]

    Doing ANYTHING for a woman, but especially with computers, is LJBF self-immolation. Cooking is of course a disaster, UNLESS you are professional chef. Women view it (particularly educated, sophisticated women) as feminine. I found out that the hard way. Women also view it as “cheap.” Even if you spend 4 hours on it, and search out expensive and hard to procure ingredients for a special meal just to impress them. [Yes I know, stupid beta move. NEVER try to do something special for a girl to impress her.]

    The trick with women is to make them think you have lots of other girls around, are indifferent to them, and that they should be competing over you. Naturally, this falls apart the longer they know you (and you inadvertently reveal your true nature) and requires enormous self-discipline most men don’t have (and certainly not me) to sustain long-term. I end up being myself far too often, which is disaster (as it is for most men). After all, if yourself was actually attractive, women would be all over you in the first place, now wouldn’t they?

    This IMHO is probably why Neil Strauss, Mystery, and the rest are IMHO probably less disciplined than Dave in Hawaii. Though the man had natural advantages (an ex-bouncer, martial arts instructor, hunter) that gave him time and space to recover his Alpha-dom, it still took tremendous effort to over-ride cultural conditioning and natural, learned tendencies from observing parents, to be a non-stop 24/7 Alpha. Something I think beyond not just me but Strauss himself who had motivations to do it.

    That’s the big “delta” over time — that Dave’s father, my own, probably pretty much everyone’s, never had to act Alpha 24/7. They just didn’t. Which IMHO explains men’s biggest complaint about women, and one that won’t ever go away.

    Like


  75. *snicker* epoxy.

    maurice;
    1. if you’re married no more asking me where the ladies lay down easy.
    2. The snark applies to the east coast, the shoes are obviously uglier in DC. I found when I was as friendly out here as at home I appeared to be wearing a sign saying “please, I want you to take me home NOW, please, the uglier the better, and touch me while you ask.” If I ever move back I may never be able to mellow out the bitch enough to fit fully in. Ah well.

    Like


  76. @epoxy- i agree, that’s exactly roissy’s point. but they would have to be real orplausible apps and not obviously fake/stupid ones to work. i said above i thought the lie detector app line would be very effective, because it’s a real app and segues nicely into all kinds of conversations.

    chic talked about status – i merely said the iPhone was geeky and trendy, which can work in geeky and trendy circles (probably most people here, and in east-coast SWPL cities) but not so well in others.

    done, off iSoapbox, moving on.

    Like


  77. Mu In general, Black folk tend not to be as chatty w/folks they don’t know well, so as a rule its probably better to pare your routine down a bit.

    This is very true Mu. Through reading this blog I’ve realized that there were times I was being hit on by WM and had no idea because he did a sort of long song and dance where I thought he was just being friendly.

    At the same time, I think a blk man can run game on blk women with technology. I’ve had a couple of cells phones that elicit oh and ahs when I pulled them out of my bag. People want to ask questions, look at my phones etc… With a guy, you must use her interest in your phone as a way to “get your hooks in”. I would argue that having one of those new Mini computer (esp Sony model) will help to open up women.

    Mu Like this iPhone deal? White chicks will go for it. Sistas, by and large, will not.

    Mu iPhone game will work on sisters but you have to keep it sort and sweet. The overly planned and laid out stuff will have to be shortened thought.

    Say something about yourself to the phone. It’ll tell you how truthful you are. Here, like this: ‘The girl I’m talking to feels dizzy in my presence’.” You press the analyze button. “Hm, 99% truthful. Do you need to sit down for a minute?”

    Most men would need to clean up or delete most of this for it to work with sisters unless she is the type who was raised in a mostly White environment.

    Because Sistas get approached in such a direct, yet crude fashion by most brothas *all the time*, both on the street and in the bar/club/lounge,
    yet some brothers don’t understand why sisters have a tendency to look so mean sometimes. We suffer daily harrasement from blk men.

    I get crude stuff when I’m walking down the street and men are standing in groups. It’s very rare that I get one on one crude behavior from blk men if they approach me in a bar/club/lounge. I think my size and no nonsense gaze helps to deter brothers who want to act a fool. Now blk women who are petite(4’11ft-5’2) and very thin(size00-2) catch no breaks, unless the brothers are classy and/or upscale. They even get crap from non blk men.

    Like


  78. 1. Intimate that you are familiar with or good at technology.
    2. Cook for a woman. [My biggest, most blockhead mistake EVER.]
    3. Indicate any particular interest in technology.

    Eh, I disagree. #2, especially when combined with copious red wine, = panty dropper at twice the rate of some place like Tao. I only ever been informed that a West Point ring on a 35 yr old is a panty dropper, never seen ’em actually fall.

    I’m pretty sure that you just think I just proved your point that women are morons at knowing what works.

    Like


  79. whiskey NO MAN SHOULD EVER LISTEN … to a woman giving dating advice. Women are absolutely incapable of EVER being honest about what works with attraction.

    Well Whiskey, I mentioned technology to you a few weeks ago. IIRC, Virginia Gentleman chimed in with how he used his rail raining knowledge to pull in a SWPL environmentalist chick, now Roissy is cosigning with iPhones. Maybe I don’t get all of right but I know technology game can work if executed properly. The issue is can you talk about technology without becoming geeky and talking over your target’s head.

    Anyway, as you said your problem is keeping women not getting them. So it’s not so much the openers you need.

    Quick question: Do you come across as needy once you fall for the woman? Are you the type who falls in love fairly easily? Do you wear your heart on your sleeve? Can a woman crap test you and see your true feelings on your face even when your mouth(use game) says otherwise?

    whiskey Cooking is of course a disaster, UNLESS you are professional chef. Women view it (particularly educated, sophisticated women) as feminine
    Whiskey, you are meeting the wrong types of women or you’re not a good cook. Cooking can work.

    Like


  80. on June 22, 2009 at 5:07 pm Gunslingergregi

    Whiskey rain will let you cook for her.

    Really though buy all the ingredients then get your woman to the house and surprize her with here ya go make some dinner with these ingredients. Don’t give her the recipe. It will be an adventure.

    Like


  81. @chic- “tall, a bit handsome, smooth and also a tad shy” – all basically right, imho, except maybe i’m not nearly as smooth as your boy Mu. only race and age were off ….

    @whiskey – i’m with al, cooking can work well if it’s not done in a beta supplicating chump manner. you seem to have done it that way, then blamed the result on the home cooking, not the way it was done.

    @al – so i was right about the various locales. also, don’t misunderstand me- i get out a lot in DC, and was just trying to place the local venue you mentioned to the ones i know about and frequent. that was my goal, not trolling for chicks. i come here mainly for theory, as my posting style would suggest, mainly for good LTR game a la DFH. also the personalities – i like the style of a lot of the guys here, not only our illustrious host, so it’s kind of an e-bar where i can hang with some cool guys.

    Like


  82. @ Epoxytocin No. 87

    “If they were on a device with no “status boost”, such as a Nintendo DS, the Game potential would be completely unchanged.”

    Are you saying my DS doesn’t give me a status boost?!

    @ maurice

    “but they would have to be real orplausible apps and not obviously fake/stupid ones to work”

    I don’t think that’s true. Part of how the iPhone brands itself is as “having an app for everything,” so having slightly ridiculous examples will work fine as long as you deliver it well. You know, keep it fun.

    We could totally segue into…iPhone negs? What whaaat…

    Heh. Playin’.

    Like


  83. One of the best guys with women I ever knew used cooking all the time. Big Italian guy.

    And Jeffy from RSD uses cooking too, as does Savoy from Lovesystems.

    Like


  84. @ whiskey

    if done correctly, making dinner with, and not for, a girl can be great fun. just like having dinner in a restauant, however, there’s the herb way to do it and the right way. here’s a couple of guidlines:

    1. make sure it’s a collaborative effort. have her go grocery shopping with you. put her to work in the kitchen. taste things together. that way you’re judging her performance and much as she’s judging yours; plus giving her direction in the kitchen sets a good precedent for compliance.

    2. don’t buy the whole meal yourself. if, for logistical reasons, you can’t take her shopping, then have her bring the wine and maybe dessert. again, you’re not cooking for her, you’re cooking with her.

    overall, think of it this way: inviting a girl over for a fully prepared meal is like taking her out to a nice restaurant. it’s an obvious attempt to impress her and something best left for women who have already earned a place in your life. cooking with her is more like grabbing a bite at some place you’ve both discovered together; or, if you cook a lot anyway, it’s like having her meet you at your local hangout.

    Like


  85. EPIC FAIL whenever you mention you are into Technology Chic. Girls think “geek … EWWWWW!!!!!” and exit immediately.

    I would NEVER EVER help a girl out with a computer. EVER. Because that would be like self LJBF. Alpha guys never do anything for women, EVER. Women do for them. [Cleverly, part of Roissy’s appeal with the Iphone, status marker and also making women “do” for the guy.]

    As for cooking, I tried three test meals during the week to get everything right (it was Indian food). Every spice was ground fresh for maximum flavor, cooked that day, it was in fact delicious. I showed up at her place with the food still hot, very tasty. What went wrong?

    One: she perceived cooking as “not macho” and also “cheap” vs. the typical masculine guy who would take her out to some expensive place and be the big shot. [This girl was easily the hottest I ever dated, 9.5 at least.] It was also her favorite, Indian Food, easily better than the place I’d taken her to two weeks before. Two: “cheap” vs. spending a lot of money in obvious ways at a place that had snooty waiters, or what have you. [The date was a total, I mean absolutely TOTAL disaster.]

    Women don’t like it. A guy who cooks is indeed “a kitchen bitch” and viewed as unmasculine (it’s also a tip-off of a guy who has lived on his own for some time) and screams to women “cheap” no matter what. Women don’t like time/effort put into stuff … they prefer obvious displays of cash and impressing waiters etc.

    And why yes I am very non-concealing. It’s why I am often effective in sales presentations, because I believe what I’m selling, totally. AND I’m not there for very long, either. I’m not very good at poker or much else requiring deception. I do indeed fall for girls very fast, hard, and heavy. My face is indeed an open book.

    I like the way Roissy uses technology. Not to “do for” women (who hate that and find anyone doing anything for them as a LJBF loser) but to impress/amuse them with stuff on his own.

    This applies to cooking (guys — NEVER EVER DO IT for women, EVER), technology, pretty much EVERYTHING. However, ALWAYS let women do for you. Always. In fact, encourage it.

    [If you read the Sandra Tsing Loh article, you will find that married women find men who do things around the house are unsexy and viewed as feminine “kitchen bitches” and prefer guys who fool around with secretaries. Women either don’t care about or dislike men who do things for them — it’s viewed as Beta Chumpdom. So guys, never ever do things for them. Ever.]

    Like


  86. @chic

    “Cooking is of course a disaster, UNLESS you are professional chef. Women view it (particularly educated, sophisticated women) as feminine”

    TOTALLY disagree! I had this great alpha boyfriend and he was a fabulous cook. There wasn’t one feminine thing about him believe me. He was all man about his approach and made no excuses or apologies for his interest in it. He did his own laundry too. Oh btw I’m educated and sophisticated.

    Like


  87. Fluffy bunnies and little children: female proof that God exists.

    Beer and sex: male proof that God exists.

    (Yes. I’m enjoying a fine beer right now.)

    Like


  88. @whiskey:

    As for cooking, I tried three test meals during the week to get everything right (it was Indian food). Every spice was ground fresh for maximum flavor, cooked that day, it was in fact delicious. I showed up at her place with the food still hot, very tasty. What went wrong?

    exactly, in this situation your cooking for her was on overt attempt to impress her with your skill. you were basically displaying your value at her feet and hoping she judged you kindly. the point is to demonstrate your value without seeking her approval.

    if cooking is something that you do a lot of anyway, then have her come over, have her bring something, and put her to work. if you’re cooking skills are mediocre at best, then have making a meal something you fumble through together. the point is to get her invested in the process.

    Like


  89. whiskey:

    this isn’t meant to be a shot at your personally, but just because you failed at these different endeavors doesn’t mean the strategy will *always* fail.

    yes, cooking for a 20 year old hottie, or a 30 year old that still likes the fast life is probably not the best strategy, but there are plenty of women that like this shit, if its done the right way.

    whether or not the cooking works or not has nothing to do with the act of cooking in and of itself, it is the atmosphere you create and the conversation between the two of you.

    yes, it can be perceived as beta in some instances, but if its done correctly the man can gain from such an experience.

    i should also note that if the man is beta in all other facets of life, cooking for the woman will be viewed as more evidence of betaness. cooking is a strategy best employed by lesser alphas as a sort of relief against a seemingly alpha exterior.

    Like


  90. @ whiskey

    Okay, you can probably disregard most of my advice, not because I’m a woman, but because I’m not your typical woman.

    But I do think tech stuff is sexy. I have definitely had a few friends that I’ve wanted to totally jump when they’ve fixed my computer. Seriously. Seriously. That said, I don’t think it’s a instant turn off in ABSOLUTELY ALL SITUATIONS EVER EVER EVER.

    “Alpha guys never do anything for women, EVER.”

    Not true.

    “Women don’t like it. A guy who cooks is indeed “a kitchen bitch” and viewed as unmasculine (it’s also a tip-off of a guy who has lived on his own for some time) and screams to women “cheap” no matter what. Women don’t like time/effort put into stuff … they prefer obvious displays of cash and impressing waiters etc.”

    Not true!

    Really, as a reader of this blog, you should know that ostentatious displays of CASH are not the way to win a woman’s heart. Also, yeah, what readers said above: you kind of did it wrong. Cooking together is usually fun, or at least cooking for her while she’s there and can help out a little or something.

    Showing up at her door with a four-course meal you’ve slaved over? Oh! Try-hard. Even girls don’t do that.

    Like


  91. on June 22, 2009 at 6:19 pm Gunslingergregi

    ”””””””””””””’Whiskey,
    As for cooking, I tried three test meals during the week to get everything right (it was Indian food). Every spice was ground fresh for maximum flavor, cooked that day, it was in fact delicious. I showed up at her place with the food still hot, very tasty. What went wrong?””””””””””””””

    Jesus Christ man was this a first date. This is why you need to have sex first before doing crazy shit like this.

    Good side is obviously you enjoyed the food you ate it three times that week. Maybe she felt like you liked the food more than her. Maybe she was jealous of the time spent with food. One date with her 3 dates with the food.

    Really she prob did you a favor though if she couldn’t appreciate you attention to detail and wanting it to be special she probably wasn’t for you anyway.

    Where game comes in is you go through the 1000 woman it takes to find the chic that ”””””””””””’appreciates””””””””’ that you spent all fucking week thinking about cooking her a nice dinner and can ”””””””””’appreciate””””””””””” your romantic attention to detail to make it a perfect event. Not many chicks can.

    Like


  92. @ whiskey

    “it’s also a tip-off of a guy who has lived on his own for some time”

    Yeah…if a guy couldn’t cook to save his life, I would be kind of turned off…it shows that he’s either a) never lived on his own (not sexy), b) subsisted on take-out, pizza, and beer before he met me (not sexy…or healthy…), or c) always eating out (which is just…high maintenance, and lazy).

    SRSLY.

    Like


  93. I’m sorry it didn’t work whiskey, though I personally find being cooked for waaaaay up there with super strong catnip. If I’m not into a guy, though, it might backfire. Not being allowed to help, or to do the dishes, might also ruin the scene.

    And I’d discount any woman who was unimpressed because clearly a restaurant, being more expensive, is much better. She sounds ungrateful and a nightmare.

    Like


  94. on June 22, 2009 at 6:38 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    As for cooking, I tried three test meals during the week to get everything right (it was Indian food). Every spice was ground fresh for maximum flavor, cooked that day, it was in fact delicious. I showed up at her place with the food still hot, very tasty. What went wrong?

    Whiskey, dude, ease up bro.

    If you tried to woo a woman with a florid love poem and were rebuffed, would you conclude that all women must HATE HATE HATE words, and thus that you should never talk to a woman again, preferring instead to lure her with Primeval Grunt Game thenceforth?

    Shades of gray, my man. Shades of gray.

    Like


  95. on June 22, 2009 at 6:41 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    LR from above:

    Also, you have to realize how illogical YOUR response was in saying that “I like drama and just don’t know it”. Isn’t that the same as women imagining they know what men are really like?

    Actions speak louder than words.

    Like


  96. The tricky thing about cooking is that, as others have pointed out, this is more of an intimate thing. You don’t do it early on. The relationship has to be more well established in your life, and then you invite her into the kitchen and cook together with her, but under your direction. That can work pretty well with some women, but it’s still tricky. I agree with Chuck that if you are channeling beta in some other ways, cooking will probably amplify that and not to your benefit. Also, you have to be careful that the girl doesn’t see it as pissing on her turf — some women will, and some women won’t.

    Like


  97. on June 22, 2009 at 6:53 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    The tricky thing about cooking is that, as others have pointed out, this is more of an intimate thing. You don’t do it early on.

    Not necessarily. It’s all relative.

    If you’re a 300-lb tattooed bouncer who met your girl after she watched you knock out 3 dudes in the street, then you can show up at her place wearing an apron and toting a fondue pot, and she’ll still beg you to fuck her in whatever hole you want.

    If you’re a 6’4″ 165lb helmet-wearing cyclist with a funny voice, then you should NEVER go ANYWHERE near a kitchen for the entire duration of your relationship.

    Most of us are somewhere in between.

    This is not unlike “vulnerability game”, which only works against a backdrop of non-vulnerability.

    I agree with Chuck that if you are channeling beta in some other ways, cooking will probably amplify that and not to your benefit.

    That’s more like it.

    Also, you have to be careful that the girl doesn’t see it as pissing on her turf — some women will, and some women won’t

    Any woman who sees a relationship is competitive IN ANY WAY is not worth the time of day. Fuck that noise. Sorry. Just no.

    Such women don’t even deserve to be blessed by my breathless fuck-o-matic awesomeness. They never have.
    After all, I’d hate to upstage them in that way, too. Sheesh.

    Like


  98. LILGRL nerded:

    we were…testing its oliophobic screen. turns out the sauce really does wipe off quite easily. ..though the iPhone is pretty mainstream-fashionista-cool-chica stuff these days,

    goddamn -you are gonna be too hawt when you hit 30

    Like


  99. Completely unrelated to the blogpost, but extremely funny in context of this blog:

    From the ONION:

    “”But If We Started Dating It Would Ruin Our Friendship Where I Ask You To Do Things And You Do Them””

    By Kimberly Pruitt
    June 9, 2009 | Issue 45•24

    Article Tools

    Digg Facebook Stumbleupon via @TheOnion – But If We Started Dating It Would Ruin Our Friendship Where I Ask You To Do Things And You Do Them Twitter Reddit Email
    To: From:
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    I really like you. I do. You’re so nice, and sweet, and you listen to all my problems and respond with the appropriate compliments. But, well, I don’t really see a relationship in our future. It would be terrible if we let sex destroy this great friendship we have where I get everything I want and you get nothing you want. Don’t you think?

    I knew you would understand. You always do.

    We’re so perfect as friends, you know? I can tell you anything, and you know you can always come to me anytime you need to hear me bitch about work or how ugly I feel. You wouldn’t want to ruin a friendship like that just so you could be my boyfriend, and have me look at you with desire and longing in my eyes, if only once—would you? Of course not. Well, if we started dating, it would only complicate this wonderful setup I’ve got going here.

    It’s just…you’re like my best friend, and I would hate for something you desperately want to change that. I mean, sure, we could go on some dates, maybe mess around a little and finally validate the six years you’ve spent languishing in this platonic nightmare, but then what? How could we ever go back to the way we were, where I take advantage of your clear attraction to me so I can have someone at my beck and call? That part of our friendship means so much to me.

    No. We are just destined to be really, really good friends who only hang out when I don’t have a boyfriend, but still need male attention to boost my fragile and all-consuming ego.

    Anything can happen once you bring romance in. Think about how awful my last relationship was at the end, remember? The guy I’d call you crying about at 3 a.m. because he wouldn’t answer my texts? The guy I met at the birthday party you threw me? I had insanely passionate sex with him for four months and now we don’t even talk anymore. God, I would die if something like that happened to us.

    Plus, ick, can you even imagine getting naked in front of each other? I’ve known you so long, you’re more like a brother that I’ve drunkenly made out with twice and never mentioned again. It’d be way too weird. And if we did, then whenever you’d come shopping with me, or go to one of my performances or charity events, or take me for ice cream when I’ve had a bad day at work, you’d be looking at me like, “I’ve seen her breasts.” God, I can’t think of anything more awkward that that.

    Oh, before I forget, my mom says hi.

    Anyway, you would totally hate me as your girlfriend. I’d be all needy and dramatic and slowly growing to love you. If I was your girlfriend, I would never be able to tell you all about the other asshole guys I date and pretend I don’t see how much it crushes you. Let’s never lose that. That’s what makes us us.

    Don’t worry. You’re so funny and smart and amazing, any girl but me would be lucky to date you. You’ll find someone, I know it. And when you do, I’ll be right by your side to suddenly become all flirty and affectionate with you in front of her, until she grows jealous and won’t believe it when you say we’re just friends. But when she dumps you, that’s just what we’ll be.

    Best friends. Friends forever

    Like


  100. @aoefe- Whiskey wrote that comment. I like it when a man can cook, it means that’s one chore we can share.

    Like


  101. on June 22, 2009 at 7:32 pm David on ipod

    There’s a new iPhone app that lets you know if a girl who’s using one has a GNP.

    I am currently working on an iPhone app that looks for women with nails who are capable of loving a beta. So far, it doesn’t work. When you set it to look for alpha-loving women, it overwhelms the iPhone’s processor.

    Like


  102. @Firepower: Yes, I’m a 17 yr old virgin! Surprise!

    @GManifesto (on game in different regions): That’s interesting…what would you consider Miami game to be like?

    Also, this may be a stupid question, but how do you those nifty quotes when leaving a comment?

    Like


  103. Mandy blossomed:

    @Firepower: Yes, I’m a 17 yr old virgin! Surprise!

    ugh. now i have to teach another one what a
    Rusty Trombone is

    Like


  104. @ Mandy

    (blockquote) (/blockquote)

    Like


  105. you guys are such fucking nerds sweetys!

    Like


  106. An opener I currently use with my phone:

    I see a girl in a busy bar, in her own world texting an entire book to whomever.

    I look down at my phone as if it is my whole world and I walk towards her as if my phone is leading me there, and I walk right to her without looking up from my phone, and I touch our phones together as if it were a magnet.

    I don’t even look up for a few seconds, I just stare at my phone and press buttons…

    “I think my phone likes your phone…it brought me right here”

    Usually girls will laugh and that is your opener….follow your own style from here on out to get her into bed.

    Like


  107. Whiskey I like the way Roissy uses technology. Not to “do for” women (who hate that and find anyone doing anything for them as a LJBF loser) but to impress/amuse them with stuff on his own

    *Shrugs*
    okay whiskey I think you are going to stick to your manifesto. At the end of the day, both roissy and Virginia Gentleman made technology game work for them. You need to figure out how you make your love of technology work for you.

    How are you going to impress/amuse women with your knowledge of technology. Run a scenario by us.

    Whiskey Women either don’t care about or dislike men who do things for them — it’s viewed as Beta Chumpdom. My first boyfriend would iron my clothes for me sometimes. It was one of the many reasons I loved/love him.

    Mu all basically right, imho, except maybe i’m not nearly as smooth as your boy Mu. only race and age were off ….

    Mu lucked up in smoothness, the average man of any race isn’t so smooth. There are times when Mu has taken me over his knee and spanked me but his way of going about it had me scratching my head wondering if I was imaging things. Mu is even difficult for the other men to nail down too. It’s like they know he has owned them but they can’t quite figure out how. I’m sure he could talk the Taliban into giving up Bin Laden.

    Like


  108. on June 22, 2009 at 8:18 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Whiskey…I cook one meal a day, everyday, for my wife and I. Usually breakfast…but if she starts cooking breakfast before I do, than I’ll usually take dinner.

    I love cooking….especially since I pretty much stopped eating fast food and dining out in nice restaurants…it is now something I only take my wife out once in a blue moon (when I do take her out, she actually gets excited, it’s a rare treat.)

    At one point in our lives, we ate 2 out of every 3 meals at restaurants or take out…and we were both getting fat after several years of doing that.

    I had to make a conscious and deliberate effort to put an end to it. And I started it by literally “taking over” the kitchen. I started cooking all three meals and lay the law down with my wife that WE ARE NOT GOING TO EAT OUT ANYMORE.

    It was too expensive, and we were both getting fat.

    At first, she liked me cooking all three meals…but than she started getting competitive with me, and she would deliberately beat me to the kitchen so she could cook a meal for us.

    We both lost a lot of weight, and we now realize that for the most part, fast food and lower scale restaurants all make food that is vastly inferior to our own cooking. We often take what used to be our favorite dishes from all the restaurants we used to always eat out at, and make ’em at home. I can say that we almost always succeed in making a far better, tastier and healthier home-made version.

    Oh, and my wife literally brags about my cooking skills to our friends and family all the time.

    Cooking for her is not necessarily Beta or an attraction killer…it’s how you do it. I agree with Chuck’s sentiments wholeheartedly.

    Next time you feel like cooking for a woman, invite her to your house. You need to come across as “I’m cooking some damn good food for myself. You’re welcome to join me and find out just how good it is…or not. Your loss, not mine.” The way you described it, you were trying to “buy” her attraction with your cooking.

    I’m sure your food tasted great..but your supplicating demeanor is what she was really contemptuous of, not your cooking skill.

    I have to say, we always discuss how feminism has corrupted society…but one area that really doesn’t get discussed much is how the role of feminism has played in the proliferation of fast food.

    The rise in working mothers who either don’t know how to or consciously disdain the arts of cooking directly correlates with the rise in fast food popularity and the rising obesity and ill health epidemic.

    Like


  109. Thanks LilGirl and DefaultUser.

    Like


  110. Mandy is the new blood.

    Tyler: Good opener.

    Like


  111. I feel uneasy now.

    Like


  112. on June 22, 2009 at 8:39 pm Virginia Gentleman

    chic noir:

    I’ll be the first to tell you that I’ve never expected to be compared to our host with regards to tech-game. The obvious difference is that our host could make something out of the iPhone, whereas I was talking to a woman who’s already off the bloody market.

    On the other hand, what worked on one SWPL woman might yet work again on another. Might have to dig up the NS and CSX annual reports to see what else might be interesting to the uninterested, along with further refining of the heretofore unknown rail game.

    All aboard!

    Like


  113. Virginia Gentleman

    I have taken to using your style of linking to the reply I am referencing. Good idea, thanks.

    Like


  114. Shit, just heard about the train crash in DC. Hope everyone that visits here from DC is alright.

    Like


  115. Mandy

    “@GManifesto (on game in different regions): That’s interesting…what would you consider Miami game to be like?”

    Miami Beach Game broken down to the last molecule:

    The South Beach War Report Part I: The Basics

    Models, Murder and Mayhem, The South Beach War Report Part II

    – MPM

    Like


  116. dave from hawaii Oh, and my wife literally brags about my cooking skills to our friends and family all the time.
    *shakes head in agreement*
    I’ve seen this amongst a broad range of American women.

    @mandy- Maybe there is another Mandy. I recall a Mandy from Great Briton who commented here a few times.

    Like


  117. on June 22, 2009 at 8:55 pm Virginia Gentleman

    Default User:

    I find that it helps keep track of things in the massive threads and it’s more efficient than the block quote. You’re welcome; consider it my contribution (other than rail game!) to the users.

    Like


  118. @G: Oh, I thought you had something about the locals or something.
    I’ve only been to a few parties so I don’t know all that much, except that guys will cockblock each other fighting over one girl. I’ve witnessed it firsthand. It’s kind of sad. But kind of interesting. Like watching a trainwreck. o.0

    The beach is a whole different animal.

    Like


  119. @chic

    Ooops, sorry now I see how I missed the quoter. Glad to know you and I are in the same boat, it’s easier to paddle. hehe

    Like


  120. Virginia Gentleman, there is something about you that makes me blush. In a way, you remind me of MU.

    Like


  121. Whiskey she perceived cooking as “not macho” and also “cheap” vs. the typical masculine guy who would take her out to some expensive place and be the big shot. [This girl was easily the hottest I ever dated, 9.5 at least.]

    Whiskey she was a 9.5, she is at the top and she can and will be picky to use r speak she has high market value. You should brush that off your shoulders. Now if a “5” had pulled that stunt, you would need to reflect. A 9.5 literally has men throwing themselves at her 24/7. The moment she leaves the house, here comes peen. Men bending over backwards to do things for her because of the way she looks*.

    *Sidenote- some 10’s become distrustful and hateful because of this very thing.

    Whiskey And why yes I am very non-concealing. It’s why I am often effective in sales presentations, because I believe what I’m selling, totally. AND I’m not there for very long, either. I’m not very good at poker or much else requiring deception. I do indeed fall for girls very fast, hard, and heavy. My face is indeed an open book.

    My women’s intuition was correct. It works about 80-90% of time.

    There are a few men who comment on this blog who are just misogynist a holes and other who are repetitive whiners.

    *ducks flying objects & stuffs ears with headphones to ignore the bad names*

    At the same time there are guys here who like you, would make a good husband.

    I don’t think I want to get married but if I did, you(via e-person) have most of the traits I would want in a husband. It boggles my mind why some woman hasn’t come along and rushed you down the isle. You said you are average in looks and most people are average so that shouldn’t be a big hindrance.

    Are you sure you’re not going after women who have no interest in you? Your open face is a weak point for women who like drama and games. Forgive me for preaching to you since you’re about 13 years older but as a man Whiskey, you must learn how to pull back and not show your emotions sometimes. Women like for their men to be the pillar of strength in a relationship, even feminist chic noir does :opps: Why do you think I run behind Default & Welmer when things get hot around here 🙂

    For those women who crap test you, you must stand your ground. For example, if you are driving her some where and she disrespects or berates your driving ability mean spritely, put her azz out on the side of the road(safe neighborhood & before dark)*. Those types will appreciate your having a backbone even if it goes against who you are. Actually, she wants you to have a backbone and stand up to her. There is a good chance she will call you the next day to apologize.

    The female side: Chic Noir does not like wearing dresses because of the attention. Chic Noir’s first boyfriend did like for her to wear dresses, so she would sometimes wear them to please him.

    *default, don’t worry, this will never happen with us since I’m not the aggressive crap testing type.

    Like


  122. on June 22, 2009 at 9:10 pm Tupac Chopra

    As you might expect, this requires a certain type of girl, who is sadly, rapidly disappearing, i.e. the “nice but arty” type of girl, now replaced by the “arty but slutty” girl with tats and a penchant for low-life indie rockers and flatbillers.

    Truth.

    Like


  123. on June 22, 2009 at 9:21 pm Tupac Chopra

    Epoxy:

    If you’re a 300-lb tattooed bouncer who met your girl after she watched you knock out 3 dudes in the street, then you can show up at her place wearing an apron and toting a fondue pot, and she’ll still beg you to fuck her in whatever hole you want.

    If you’re a 6′4″ 165lb helmet-wearing cyclist with a funny voice, then you should NEVER go ANYWHERE near a kitchen for the entire duration of your relationship.

    Most of us are somewhere in between.

    This is not unlike “vulnerability game”, which only works against a backdrop of non-vulnerability.

    Which is to say the issue of cooking is utterly *irrevelant* against the backdrop of masculinity.

    Like


  124. whiskey As for money, most girls in SoCal expect a certain amount of effort, time, and particularly money in dates. You don’t have to spring for Bottle Service or stuff like that, but you are expected to drop at least $75-$100 on the evening, including dinner at a nice place, parking, drinks, movie or event, and so on.

    *tood hops on segway heading str8 for SoCal so he can go tell those girls that men with game don’t need to pay for dinner*

    Dinner at Pinks or Oki Dog won’t cut it
    What about 5 dollar ethnic hole in the wall places with hispter and artsy types? Have you tried that? Did that go over well?

    Like


  125. “ANY time I’ve EVER helped a girl I was attracted to with computers, anything technical, I’ve instantly been put in the LJBF box. Once you get there, you never get out. Even though there was attraction before. This happened not once, but about six times with girls who had previously had rapport and IOI. Even I finally figured that out.”

    @Whiskey —

    I think you might be being a bit too hard on yourself here generally, but you are moving in the right direction.

    The most critical thing — as even DocLove will tell you — is that you take control of the situation from the beginning and make it clear that you are *not* a candidate for the friend-zone. Not only in the initial contact and getting the IOI, but also after that. You are interested in her in the way a man is interested in a woman, as her lover, as her romance partner. I think it is helpful, for quite a while in a relationship, to avoid doing things that a LJBF boypal would do for a woman — listening to her problems in excess, helping fix her computer, moving stuff for her, and so on. IMO, that’s fine for later, if she is your fiance, wife, or LTR partner. But in the beginning and even well beyond that, you need to do everything in your power to make sure you are in and stay in her sex and relationship zone, and one great way to do that is to stay away from doing things that her LJBFs are doing.

    That requires resisting your own impulses, I know that. The bitches programmed men to serve them, and mothers still do that unwittingly, because in prior eras, where there was, more or less, a girl for every guy, that was not a terrible thing. But in this era it’s a disaster because women select men based on sexual attraction now. So you need to overcome your own trained impulses and replace them with ways of behaving that women like. That isn’t hateful of women — it’s respectful of their needs. And it isn’t “not being yourself” either. It’s like learning a new skill. You learn it, and then you’re a a bit different with the new skill than you were before learning it, but you are not “not being yourself”. You are simply your new, augmented, self, and a self that conveys what Whiskey has to offer to women in a way that women understand, relate to, and enjoy experiencing.

    Like


  126. Dave — You’re right it was my supplicating demeanor, but even when I’ve cooked with girls (either at their place or mine) it’s never been good. Ever. Not just the one time (though it was perhaps the biggest, most spectacular flameout EVER).

    I think with yourself, since you’ve made the incredible effort to be Alpha 24/7, cooking does not make you beta. You also have height/size advantage. Me, not so much.

    I agree that feminism has hurt the cause of cooking at home, and helped encourage the obesity epidemic. But what really hit home was stuff like this:

    “Rachel is cooking dinner for three of us: Ellen (a writer, married with children), Renata (violinist, single, lithe, and prowling at 45), and me. Rachel is, more accurately, reheating dinner; the dish is something wonderfully subtle yet complex, like a saffron-infused porcini risotto, that Ian made over the weekend and froze for us, in Tupperware neatly labeled with a Sharpie, because this is the sort of thoughtful thing he does. Ian subscribes to Cook’s Illustrated online and a bevy of other technically advanced gourmet publications—he’s always perfecting some polenta or bouillabaisse. If someone requests a cheeseburger, he will fire back with an über-cheeseburger, a fluffy creation of marbled Angus beef, Stilton, and homemade ketchup. Picture him in bike shorts (he’s a cyclist), hovering over a mandala of pots that are always simmering, quietly simmering. To Ian’s culinary adventurousness, Rachel attributes the boys’ sophisticated taste buds—they eagerly eat everything: curry, paella, seaweed, soba noodles. My own girls are strictly mac-and-cheese-centric (but I’ve been told in therapy not to keep beating myself up over the small things).

    Leaning forward heavily across the bar, she swirls her glass and huskily drops the bomb: “I have to tell you—since we talked, I too have started thinking divorce.” “No!” we girls exclaim. With a stab of nausea, I suddenly feel as though now that I’ve touched my pool of friends with my black pen, a cloud of ink is enveloping them.

    “You can’t!” Renata cries. “Ian—he’s the perfect father! The perfect husband! Look at this … kitchen!”

    It’s true: the kitchen is a prime example of Ian’s contribution to their union. He based the design of the remodel on an old farmhouse kitchen they saw during their trip to Tuscany, and of course—carpentry being another of his hobbies—he did all the details himself, including building the shelves. One of the room’s marvels is how ingeniously and snugly all the specialty kitchenware is housed—the hanging copper pots, the garlic press, the mandolin, the lemon zester, the French press coffeemaker … ”
    ————————
    Loh goes on to detail how her female friends, all married with kids, loathe their beta husbands who cook and build, because they are not the exciting bad boys they left behind but now crave again.

    There IS something connected here, almost NO MAN IN THE UK cooks, something that depresses and amazes celebrity Chef Jaime Oliver, who reckons he could save hundreds of dollars a month off food bills.

    The sexual competition in Britain is brutal. Women rule, it’s completely feminized, and women by and large demand men who do not cook, save for macho celebrities like Oliver and Gordon Ramsay. Cooking is relatively easy to pick up at a journeyman level, cookbooks, internet recipes and how to guides abound, you can practice every day easily.

    Yet why don’t men use cooking as a competitive edge? Why do Loh’s married pals all despise their husbands cooking and carpentry? Despite actual mastery demonstrated over and over again?

    I think the answer is being Beta is everything. If you are Alpha it does not matter if you cook or not, but if you are Beta, cooking only makes things worse — because women will always assume it’s a female/beta thing unless you’re a professional chef.

    Moreover, for educated and professional women, cooking can be done just as easily by a part-time immigrant working for low wages, as can carpentry. It’s something easily replaced. Alpha Dominance? Not so much.

    Like


  127. Chick vs Guy speak on the same issue= ?

    chic wrote Whiskey, you must learn how to pull back and not show your emotions sometimes

    nova wrote That requires resisting your own impulses, I know that.

    chic wrote For those women who crap test you, you must stand your ground.Actually, she wants you to have a backbone and stand up to her.Those types will appreciate your having a backbone even if it goes against who you are

    nova wrote So you need to overcome your own trained impulses and replace them with ways of behaving that women like. That isn’t hateful of women — it’s respectful of their needs. And it isn’t “not being yourself” either

    Don’t trust my words Whiskey, but do look at what Nova wrote.

    Like


  128. Whiskey The sexual competition in Britain is brutal. Women rule, it’s completely feminized, and women by and large demand men who do not cook,

    Even to my spectrum eyes, something about this doesn’t look write. Feminism was about giving women equal access to everything and having men understand that there are no “female jobs”. So why would women demand that men not cook?

    @Default- do you iron well.

    Whiskey Why do Loh’s married pals all despise their husbands cooking and carpentry?

    because it’s a TV show and the script writers wrote the characters that way.

    Like


  129. @Whiskey:

    But isn’t carpentry manly? I could perhaps understand cooking, although chicnoir’s point is correct–it would go against all tenets of feminism.

    I mean, if you’re building something from scratch with your bare hands, that’s manly.

    Like


  130. on June 22, 2009 at 10:03 pm Tupac Chopra

    From Whiskey’s quote:

    It’s true: the kitchen is a prime example of Ian’s contribution to their union. He based the design of the remodel on an old farmhouse kitchen they saw during their trip to Tuscany, and of course—carpentry being another of his hobbies—he did all the details himself, including building the shelves. One of the room’s marvels is how ingeniously and snugly all the specialty kitchenware is housed—the hanging copper pots, the garlic press, the mandolin, the lemon zester, the French press coffeemaker … ”

    Which goes to show that men, with their greater capacity for abstract thought, are the true romantics of the world.

    The notion of women being the “romantics” rests on their ability to utterly deny reality in favor of their capricious yearnings.

    Like


  131. @Tupac: I think it’s a matter of people underestimating the value of what they have, ie a partner.

    This applies to both women and men.

    Like


  132. on June 22, 2009 at 10:08 pm Tupac Chopra

    Chic:

    Even to my spectrum eyes, something about this doesn’t look write. Feminism was about giving women equal access to everything and having men understand that there are no “female jobs”. So why would women demand that men not cook?

    Back in the days when women depended on men to bring food home to put on the table, the man was “sexy.”

    With technological efficiency and feminism, these same behaviors elicit nothing more than a shrug from the same women.

    Instead, their wandering eyes now seek out, not the guy who can hunt or cook, but the guy who can bash someone’s head in…or at least get in the media limelight.

    It’s escalation, baby.

    Like


  133. chic noir asked if:

    [I] iron well.

    I can do all my own cooking, house cleaning, clothes washing, and ironing. I don’t offer it as a service. I don’t expect it (or want it) to be done for me. I enjoy cooking because I enjoy eating. Microwave meals are a great convenience; they are not a fulltime diet.

    Like


  134. Chic — Ethnic places are OK. But this is SoCal. Anything with an “A” rating (health board) will run you around $15-20 per person. It’s OK once in a while. But sometimes the ambience can leave something to be desired. Strip mall city, various loiterers. Good to practice your stare-downs and figuring out who is carrying I guess.

    Some of the best things are non-dinner dates: I.E. Rose Cafe in Venice is hipster central, quite reasonable, followed up by say Third Street Market or the Pier. Cheaper and more casual. A cool thing and one I highly recommend is the Bonaventure Hotel Downtown, the elevators are scary (run on the outside, glass totally, if you can’t get her close you’re not on your game). Followed by the ROTATING BAR that actually rotates around 360 degrees at the top of the building so you can see all of Downtown LA at night, very impressive/romantic. Beats the Grove IMHO (though filled with Koreans, not popular with most West-siders any more).

    Orange County is tougher, you are basically at Newport Beach for Ambience, walkability, shops, cafes, stuff to do. [Movies suck as dates, IMHO.]

    Nova — Very true. It’s crucial to avoid the LJBF box. I was younger and stupider. I would not do that now. What works for me is an activity I suggest, I’m in control showing her a good time, and flirting carefully but constantly. Sadly I self sabotage consistently by being what Chic Noir nailed, generally when I start feeling comfortable after a relationship starts and being myself instead of very careful responses.

    This is very, very difficult for me, because it requires negating most of my built-in bad habits and open personality plus a lifetime of behaviors that are self-defeating. I can do it for a while, but slack off and always self-destruct in the end.

    It only takes 3 seconds of saying/doing something stupid to put yourself back in eternal Beta box.

    Like


  135. “Which goes to show that men, with their greater capacity for abstract thought, are the true romantics of the world.

    The notion of women being the “romantics” rests on their ability to utterly deny reality in favor of their capricious yearnings.”

    @Tupac —

    Oh indeed.

    Men are the romantics, and women are the consumers of romance. Women love romance, but the essence of romance is that it is initiated by, and modulated by, men. It is men behaving in a way that women find intriguing and emotionally and sexually irresistible. And we’re *good* at it, when we do it the right way, and are not beta/herb about it. Romance done properly is quite good game, but romance done badly (supplicating and so on) is ridiculous and disastrous.

    I think that a case can be made for game as being a more mindful approach to generating romance.

    Like


  136. on June 22, 2009 at 10:10 pm Dave from Hawaii

    It only takes 3 seconds of saying/doing something stupid to put yourself back in eternal Beta box.

    Perhaps this is your problem, Whiskey? You’re so concerned with ‘blowing’ it every time you’re conversing with a woman, that it shows? By worrying about making a mistake and being perceived as Beta, you’re giving out “Beta” signals like crazy.

    Like


  137. “Sadly I self sabotage consistently by being what Chic Noir nailed, generally when I start feeling comfortable after a relationship starts and being myself instead of very careful responses.

    This is very, very difficult for me, because it requires negating most of my built-in bad habits and open personality plus a lifetime of behaviors that are self-defeating. I can do it for a while, but slack off and always self-destruct in the end.

    It only takes 3 seconds of saying/doing something stupid to put yourself back in eternal Beta box.”

    @Whiskey —

    And this is where you need to focus your work.

    The mindset change you need is to not see game as being not you, but as being a key that unlocks the masculine, dominant kind of guy underneath the programming you have. It’s a way of borrowing into yourself to find the real Whiskey, the manly Whiskey that those artsy chicks will just go gaga for. That is a mindset issue, though. If you realize instead that it is a process of self-discovery and unearthing your own inner man, then I think you might have an easier time with it.

    I’m not saying running techniques and so on. But just getting into your own man-self — the part of you that women are interested in getting to know. It takes work and practice, but you can do it. If you had your toe in the door of a 9.5, then you certainly have enough natural to work a very personality-appropriate game for the girls that are more in your league.

    Like


  138. whiskey
    This is very, very difficult for me, because it requires negating most of my built-in bad habits

    It’s not that they are bad habits, it’s the women you come across don’t appreciate them. Don’t get down on who you are naturally. No woman is worth that. Just realize you have to change a bit to impress women. This is what a fat woman does when she slims down with the hope of landing a better quality man. To a lesser extent, this is what you do on a job interview too.
    —————————————
    default I can do all my own cooking, house cleaning, clothes washing, and ironing. I don’t offer it as a service. I don’t expect it (or want it) to be done for me. I enjoy cooking because I enjoy eating. Microwave meals are a great convenience; they are not a fulltime diet.

    *reads the above*
    😯

    *packs two rolling suitcases*

    *yells to parents as I run for my waiting taxi*

    holla at you when I smile at atcha.

    * swings front door open*

    I have a good man waiting and I’m not going to let another woman move in on my territory.

    *visualizes aoefe*

    Like


  139. on June 22, 2009 at 10:26 pm Tupac Chopra

    Whiskey:

    It only takes 3 seconds of saying/doing something stupid to put yourself back in eternal Beta box.

    There was a time when I felt bad for women. You know, the fact that they are so severely judged by their appearance — an appearance which inevitable disintegrates upon meeting The Wall, like those vampires who crumble to dust when encountering sunlight. So cruel.

    But the thing is, once a woman is chosen by a man, she can rest easy for the most part knowing she has passed muster. She has gotten over that initial hurdle. Her appearance does not rapidly fluctuate. Sure, women are known to balloon up like a heifer, but the process takes time and normally occurs after the wedding.

    It’s not like that for men. For a man, a woman is *constantly* taking stock of his alphatude. In everything he does. From how he deals with her parents, to how he deals with other men at parties, with the doorman at a club, with children at a pre-school, in virtually any situation during the day that calls upon the man to act in a certain way — either alpha or beta. And the women brook no quarter. Your Alpha Quotient is *constantly* being evaluated and judged by the whirring machinations of the gears in the woman’s head. You could be Mr. Alpha for a whole year, and then in one moment, BAM, you failed a shit-test, or weren’t assertive enough with some cop or authority figure and you get put in the metaphorical doghouse. It’s like an eternal sword of Damocles hanging over one’s head. At least with the hotties, anyway.

    No, I don’t pity women any longer.

    Like


  140. on June 22, 2009 at 10:28 pm Tupac Chopra

    Dummy:

    It’s not that they are bad habits, it’s the women you come across don’t appreciate them.

    Yeah, Whiskey actually prefers to date attractive women.

    Silly him.

    Like


  141. on June 22, 2009 at 10:30 pm Dave from Hawaii

    For a man, a woman is *constantly* taking stock of his alphatude. In everything he does. From how he deals with her parents, to how he deals with other men at parties, with the doorman at a club, with children at a pre-school, in virtually any situation during the day that calls upon the man to act in a certain way — either alpha or beta. And the women brook no quarter. Your Alpha Quotient is *constantly* being evaluated and judged by the whirring machinations of the gears in the woman’s head. You could be Mr. Alpha for a whole year, and then in one moment, BAM, you failed a shit-test, or weren’t assertive enough with some cop or authority figure and you get put in the metaphorical doghouse. It’s like an eternal sword of Damocles hanging over one’s head. At least with the hotties, anyway.

    No, I don’t pity women any longer.

    Amen Tupac…AMEN!

    Like


  142. “It’s not like that for men. For a man, a woman is *constantly* taking stock of his alphatude. In everything he does. From how he deals with her parents, to how he deals with other men at parties, with the doorman at a club, with children at a pre-school, in virtually any situation during the day that calls upon the man to act in a certain way — either alpha or beta. And the women brook no quarter. Your Alpha Quotient is *constantly* being evaluated and judged by the whirring machinations of the gears in the woman’s head. You could be Mr. Alpha for a whole year, and then in one moment, BAM, you failed a shit-test, or weren’t assertive enough with some cop or authority figure and you get put in the metaphorical doghouse. It’s like an eternal sword of Damocles hanging over one’s head. At least with the hotties, anyway.

    No, I don’t pity women any longer.”

    @Tupac –

    Oh, that was good. So true.

    Like


  143. Dave — on the contrary, I get comfortable and then be myself and blow it.

    To wit, DANCING in front of the girl I’m with. Or telling her unprompted that I love her, after we are sort of on-off living together. FIRST. Or expressing enthusiasm, and detailed knowledge, of the Dark Horse, Valiant, and Malibu Comic book lines, and what was cool about the heroes in each one. Reciting from memory how many Captains of the Enterprise, or how many partners John Steed had in the “Avengers.”

    Cool and attraction city: telling the arty girl I am fooling around with how much I love Eakins use of light and darkness in his paintings, how emotionally they hit you from across the room as much as the French impressionists.

    Girl repellent: Telling same arty girl that character actor Peter Jurasik in “Babylon 5” was in “Beverly Hills Buntz” with NYPD Blue actor Dennis Frantz. Playing the “snitch” character Syd.

    What I do, is gain attraction, rapport, comfort, and build an image of Mr. Sophisticated, and then blow it up to smithereens by revealing my inner dork.

    The worst thing I ever did, to simply destroy attraction, was dance in front of this girl who had been crazy about me. If you can’t dance, never do so.

    Like


  144. I will occassionally cook for a woman. But she better like her burgers rare. And she better just keep her hands off the fucking grill.

    Like


  145. Telling a woman how much I admired her talent, beauty, brains, and character

    Avoid gushing over a woman’s looks. When she fishes for a beauty compliment,then you can give her one but keep it short and sweet for the most part.
    Most women hate it or feel uncomfortable when random men give compliments about their beauty. Even woman to woman beauty compliments can be uncomfortable.

    Funfact: Chic Noir has approached top models on the streets on NYC to compliment them on their looks and work. I can notice they turn off once the words pretty or gorgeous leave my mouth. I find the short conversation flows better when I compliment them on an editorial or their runway walk instead.

    Dancing (I can’t and tried, tried, tried to learn it).
    Fun fact: I’m not much of a dancer either and I’m Black
    😯

    But I sure can two step like a mother. I made plenty of 60, 70, and 80 something year old’s night in the old head clubs with my two step. Two stepping is fairly easy even for those of us with no rhythm can do it fairly well. Those of us who are bad dancers are partly that way because we are overly conscious about our lack of dancing ability.

    Like


  146. @ThoseDiscussingBritain:

    The problem with Britain is, of course, that it is full of Brits.

    Ignoring that, however, I cannot echo the comments about the sexual competition being brutal; it is brutal if you are trying to compete while being a feminized thinker, but if you break that trap, British women are easy (though I still struggle to understand why you would want them, which is another story entirely – just hop the channel and hit France).

    They are not used to men who do not tolerate their bullshit, who will express their desires even when the women pretend not to want it, and who will not allow them to behave like little fucking princesses.

    In short, because Britain is so beta, if you have game, the world is your oyster.

    Like


  147. tupac Yeah, Whiskey actually prefers to date attractive women.

    Silly him.

    WTH is this suppose to mean?

    Like


  148. two step for dummies

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MLPMFlJOig

    *asks for Gods forgiveness*

    Like


  149. I want to clarify something. The LEAST attractive woman I dated gave me the most grief. Did the one actual shit-test (“Do you want kids” … and she did not). Had the most drama. Dumped me the fastest once I became beta in her eyes. This was the one I sort of on-off lived with (and yeah cheated on me). Shrug.

    The Nine I was with entertained dumping her fiancee for me. For a while anyway. [She did in fact marry him.] The 9.5 was probably the nicest gal I ever dated. The 9.1 was nearly as nice.

    It’s weird — I did better, mostly, and had less drama, lasted longer (throwing out the 6 I on/off sorta lived with for a while) and had an easier time picking up, the solid 9 to 9.5 girls. Weird. It’s almost inverse. The more attractive girls were NICER than the 6-7’s. Easier to approach, easier to date, pretty much everything. THEY did not cheat on me, while the 6-7’s did reliably. Another weird thing — I’ve been able to build rapport with 8’s, but never ever date them. EVER.

    I can’t explain this. Weird.

    Like


  150. Chic — that was after we’d been dating for about … four months.

    It was still monumentally stupid.

    Like


  151. on June 22, 2009 at 11:01 pm Tupac Chopra

    The Nine I was with entertained dumping her fiancee for me. For a while anyway. [She did in fact marry him.] The 9.5 was probably the nicest gal I ever dated. The 9.1 was nearly as nice.

    The SuperHotties(tm) often display the wide-eyed innocence of children, what with them never needing to have endured the ugliness of the world. “Life Is Beautiful” for them.

    It can be a touching thing, especially if you manage to nail them.

    I have known of such pleasures..

    Long ago…

    Like


  152. on June 22, 2009 at 11:05 pm Virginia Gentleman

    Whiskey:

    To boil down the advice of others who know better than I do, think of it like I do, as a marketing question. Assume for the sake of argument that you’re inherently valuable and desirable, and that anything between your acceptance of this fact and others’ acceptance constitutes a mere question of marketing.

    If I happened to be Don Draper or Roger Sterling from Mad Men, this would be simplicity itself. However, I don’t happen to be either of those men, nor do I happen to have Matthew Weiner overseeing a script favorable to my interests. (Hello, Mrs. Draper!) I’m also not a marketing type.

    Therefore, game. Find your core competencies and develop a marketing plan. You might be across the pond, and from what I hear, things are bad over there, but that doesn’t mean that you don’t keep trying, on the theory that you can’t win if you don’t play.

    As for your remarks regarding the inner dork, that’s what you get for watching Babylon 5. (I kid, I kid. I never watched it, but Andrea Thompson was reasonably attractive in promotional stills I saw for it.) I’ve been trying to come up with a counter that could be applied to your situation, as well as mine: “Oh, you know that two actors worked together and so forth? That’s so nerdy/beta/whatever!” “Yes, lo and behold, a human remembers simple facts. I’d say it’s a sign of a capable intellect. You know, that same intellect could be put to use for your benefit, but since you’re not able to recognize its value…”

    If you want to put a cobalt jacket on what appears to be a hydrogen bomb, finish it out with, “then I’ll move on and let the 90 IQ knuckledraggers you’re more suited for have their chance.” Either way, it has to be delivered with equal parts straight face and mocking scorn, along with a whiff of contempt. Top it off with an insincere smile, kind of like Dirk Benedict used to do.

    I have no idea if it’ll work with game theory, but it’s getting deployed anyways the next time I run into some half-wit sorority type with a worthless degree. Opinions wanted.

    Like


  153. whiskey:
    We’d been dating for about 8-10 weeks, don’t remember exactly. It was about the 12th date or so since we’d doubled up on two weeks because she wanted to see me again/more.

    had you slept with her by this time? because if you hadn’t banged her after 8-10 weeks of dating, then she was ALREADY LOST TO YOU long before this dinner date fiasco. 3 date rule, whiskey, abide the rule.

    as for your bombout, some commenters above gave good advice. dave, lance, tupac. personally, i have never cooked a meal for a woman i wasn’t already fucking. it’s too much effort when it’s not even necessary to getting into a girl’s panties. that’s not to say playing chef for a date is always a bad idea. it’s not a black and white dichotomy of chef beta vs fast food alpha. if your game is tight, and you approach the dinner from the right frame, you can impress a girl with a home cooked meal. have her help you with some of the prepping,and then bark a few commands at her.

    “here, cut these aspargus stems while i’m doing this.”
    “ok, go sit over there on the couch now. i’ll let you know when i’m finished in here.”

    then throw a couple plates down on the table, light a candle, and pour wine. don’t go overboard with the romatnic shit. keep it casual, like cooking meals is what you do every day for your harem. save the truly romantic shit for girls who have alrady accepted your seed into their holes.

    Like


  154. That’s pretty disturbing that my girlfriend would be able to know that I’m trying to pick up girls when I said I would be doing something else.

    I’m trying to learn iphone programming. Imagine the possibilities for going out at night…

    Like


  155. Whiskey- Ever try the Formosa Cafe?

    Go for the chicken fried rice for 2, with a drink each, you can get out under $30. Serious “old Hollywood” vibe also.

    As for the cooking, best thing to do is bring the ingredients to her place and “teach” her how to cook for you. Keep the meal simple and be sure to let her know how shameful it is that she can’t/doesn’t cook. You might just bring out her inner Giada.

    Chic- The fact that you would show up HERE, defending feminism means that you are really not that smart.

    LILGRL- Since you like technology so much, you should love the fact that I am using photoshop to ‘enhance’ your slutty half-naked pics, that you posted on your blog, and reposted them on http://amateurcumsluts.com/

    Go on, tell us how you write that in hex.

    Like


  156. also, whiskey, you committed a major game foul by cooking the dinner at her place. if you’re gonna do domestic shit for women, do it on your turf.

    your turf, your terms, your cock to rule them all.

    keep saying this to yourself and eventually you’ll shed the crippling beta niceness that sabotages your best efforts with women.

    ps chic and lady rain gave the worst possible “””advice””” imaginable. more proof, as if any was needed, that bitches ain’t got no clue how to explain what really gets their holes distended.

    Like


  157. tyler:
    I see a girl in a busy bar, in her own world texting an entire book to whomever.

    I look down at my phone as if it is my whole world and I walk towards her as if my phone is leading me there, and I walk right to her without looking up from my phone, and I touch our phones together as if it were a magnet.

    I don’t even look up for a few seconds, I just stare at my phone and press buttons…

    “I think my phone likes your phone…it brought me right here”

    Usually girls will laugh and that is your opener….follow your own style from here on out to get her into bed.

    bumped.
    this is some good shit, tyler. i may try it out.

    Like


  158. In compliance with the MM 7-hour rule, my cooking Game is down pat :

    After the first meeting (1-1.5 hours), I invite the woman home for me to cook for her. I am actually a good cook (or rather, these women are impressed easily with a man who knows a lot about food).

    A bit of dancing in the living room (I have enough room), some cooking, wine, and dinner. After dinner, you are in the seduce phase of MM. THAT is the time to run the ‘seduction’ material on her, which can include Ross Jeffries NLP, games with embedded commands, palmistry to Kino escalation, etc.

    Sex happens almost every time.

    The only snag is whether to invite her home after the 1st meeting, or to have a second one outside before inviting her home. Big flake risks here. The 7-hour rule can make having the cooking at home date a tall order, as you have to be tight for 5-6 hours. If the home meal is just the 3rd meeting, you have released the pressure of how many hours you have to Game her for.

    Like


  159. on June 22, 2009 at 11:46 pm Comment_Whatever

    Okay, Whiskey can sell to men. He is far beyond some socially inept person who can’t talk to others.

    Whiskey probably has a reasonable income(at least until the economy got bad).

    He has skills at tech-stuff and others(cooking).

    He has traveled and worked in other countries. He should be a DHV machine.

    So what is the problem?

    Everyone here has agreed that he isn’t dominant enough.

    He than parries that by saying he is not SOCIALLY DOMINANT enough.

    NO.

    That is NOT what everyone has said. Everyone has said Whiskey fails to be dominant TO THE WOMAN HERSELF.

    Whiskey is too submissive to women.

    Whiskey, it is the pedestal you carry around that is responsible for this. It is a FEMALE SPECIFIC problem that is causing your failure.

    Smash the pedestal. Then you’ll be able to deal with women as something other than a submissive omega. I’m truly doubt Whiskey acts that way with men.

    Whiskey will also be able to see each woman as who they actually are, which will allow him to avoid all sorts of other problems.

    Step 1:
    SMASH STUPID PEDESTAL. See women as they are.

    To put this in practical terms, Whiskey, as you sell to guys, you probably try to evaluate their personality.

    Read a Game book, all the way through. Then, when talking to women, evaluate them as you would evaluate any male client. There is no need to act on the evaluation… at first. Simply do it. Consider it a mental exercise.

    Evaluating women is also called QUALIFYING. Look it up in that Game book you read.

    Like


  160. also, whiskey, you committed a major game foul by cooking the dinner at her place. if you’re gonna do domestic shit for women, do it on your turf.

    He says he cooked the meal at his place and then brought it over to her, which is even worse.

    Like


  161. Whisky: “It’s weird — I did better, mostly, and had less drama, lasted longer (throwing out the 6 I on/off sorta lived with for a while) and had an easier time picking up, the solid 9 to 9.5 girls. Weird.”

    Nothing weird about it. Ugly chicks are at war with themselves. Hot chicks ain’t. I remember a few times in my misguided youth where I decided to take pity on some butter faced troll, hoping brains or “personality” (or at least gratitude for fuck’s sake) would make up for pulchritude. The thing is, they were such fuckwits, you’d need a Ph.D. in psychology to get down their shorts. Hot chicks (7+): no problems. I’m pretty sure “hogging” is a myth, or at least Marines chase fat cows because it’s a harder objective than a reasonably attractive female. This is worth keeping in mind.

    Like


  162. Comment_Whatever-

    You’re missing it. Whiskey said that he can sell to men when he believes in what he is selling. That’s honest.

    And it logically follows that being something he is not, just to get laid, is something that he can’t keep up long-term. Because it is inherently dishonest.

    And I think most beta men feel this way (I know I do.) They can’t keep up the facade of alphaness forever. Eventually you will reveal who you are.

    Unless you become the mask, you have to take it off eventually.

    This wasn’t a bad thing for a beta male, in generations past, but now, in this world ruled by slutty women and their alphas, it is.

    Like


  163. on June 23, 2009 at 12:20 am Hollywood Hotsauce

    Tyler’s opener is kinda similar to this “Text Msg Opener” I’m starting to:

    Get someone to send me a text saying “you’re hot”. Bring the text up and build opener using body language by catching a girl’s eye with a little confused and concerned look. Then look at the phone making sure she sees me looking at the phone. Then look back at her and start walking over. The whole time I’m walking over I look at the girl and look at the phone (repeat as necessary). When you reach the girl you say “Did you just text me?”. Girl would say no and ask what I’m talking about. With incredulity you continue “How did you get my number?” “Do you work for the phone company?” “You know I’m right here you could have just said this to me” “Oh I get it you’re shy”. Every time she denies having your number ignore the denial, control the frame. This will keep going back and forth while tension builds. Then finally show them the text message “You’re hot”, girls burst out laughing. Then next you say, “I know you don’t want me to know that it’s you but I know it’s you. I’ll play you little game I think it’s cute. Ok you know what, give me your number and I’ll text you back”. She gives me her number and I’ll text her back saying “I know”.

    Its sounds complicated but it only takes about three minutes when you get down to it….

    Like


  164. on June 23, 2009 at 12:23 am Hollywood Hotsauce

    …….IF they don’t play along you either botched the delivery which I’ve done on a few occasions or they aren’t that fun which is good news..you just saved yourself a twenty minute set to nowhere

    Like


  165. on June 23, 2009 at 12:38 am Tupac Chopra

    Whiskey:

    Sigh. I end up falling for a gal, building rapport, etc. I don’t self-destruct until after I’ve slept with her, THEN I do the stupid submissive stuff. I do it because I copy my Dad and how he was with my Mom, all my life. He was always doing special things for her, brought her hot tea in bed every morning, cooking for her, telling her how beautiful she was. My Mom still misses my Dad every day (he died five years ago).

    Except for the initial approach, all efforts should be made to ensure that the woman is investing energy in YOU, not the other way around.

    Some men prefer to have the power imbalance at a 90/10 ratio in their favor. But even if you are the romantic sort, it should never dip below 51/49 percent.

    The minute you go to 50/50 (to say nothing 49/51 or lower), you are dead in the water, even though it might not seem like that *at the time*.

    But it *will* end up that way, in the end.

    Like


  166. Yes. I had slept with her.

    But you got laid. What are you complaining about? If you wanted a female to hug you, they have these things called platonic friends, and you don’t have to cook for them…

    Like


  167. Lady Rain o’er the betas:
    Is whiskey actually an imaginary perfect man filling our simple female minds with hope?

    you are so full of shit. a thug-lite chasing low class single mom like yourself wouldn’t give a guy like whiskey the time of day in real life, except to have him over to cook your dinners pro bono and sans boner.

    Like


  168. Yell at me if I’m wrong guys.
    @WHISKEY:
    whiskey, I think it’s ok if you do the “submissive” stuff, if it’s not done in a way that’s “submissive.”
    I can’t give examples, but I can restate something I said before (stolen shamelessly from a friend and the bible):
    Basically, you can do things for her. But she has to be submissive to you, she has to fall under your protection. Under your sword (hahaha pun) and shield. So, ultimately, if you’re doing things for her it’s because she’s doing things for you and she’s fallen under your protection.

    If that made any sense.

    Like


  169. whiskey:

    When you speak on your game (past game that is) it makes you seem like a normal man trying to figure things out. This is the kind of side that is beneficial to you and most guys here are open about it trying to help you, since we all have gotten frustrated in the journey of learning game.

    As oppose to your rants about the inevitable fall of america.

    Just try and keep fine tuning your game, and just lay off the “doomsday talk” for a while. Best of luck.

    Like


  170. Pretty vs. Beautiful girls:

    The 5-6-7’s are a PITA. All Drama, all the time, have no problem getting guys, the 6 I was with had a new guy lined up as we fell apart, and was with the guy living with him after I moved my stuff out. The 7 I dumped after too much BS (and revelation of her drug habit) had a new guy in two days. [Both workplace romances btw. NEVER do it.]

    By contrast, the 9.5 went about four months after we imploded to a new guy. Another gal I knew, a solid 9.4, tall and beautiful, constantly complained that the only guys who approached her were D-bags and DID NOT HAVE A BOYFRIEND FOR TWO YEARS OF THE MBA PROGRAM. That’s TWO YEARS. Both 9.0’s that I was involved with were sweet as all get out. Me and one guy after when I knew them.

    Three 8’s that I was crazy about, by contrast, were pretty out there sexually. One bragged to me she pulled a train in a foreign country with a rap group. Another was seeing me and another guy at the same time (ouch), and a third confessed she’d been sexually active at age 14 (!!!) and lost her virginity to a local music legend at that age.

    As far as my experience in the MBA program, the girls who were most active sexually were the “girl next door type” who had guys (in and out of the program) ALL OVER THEM. One girl slept with five guys that I know of in the program. Another had four guys. The least attractive girl had the most partners, guys in/out of her place all the time (subject of complaint by her female room-mates). And that’s not covering the Chinese girls, not very attractive, hooking up with not very attractive Indian guys. Those booty calls were infamous.

    The hottest and nicest, let me repeat, did not have a boyfriend during two years there. She was model pretty, and yeah had been a swimsuit model in Florida. She was picky. There was not an exact correlation, but mostly, the hotter the chick, the fewer the partners, the more picky, the less she was into just someone for the night. As a general rule, the 9’s and near nines all had long term boyfriends, and were faithful, excepting the one eight who bragged about the train and who I know had three guys in the program.

    This maybe colors my perception, but it sure was an eye-opener. The program was about 35% female, so even say, the married 6 who was late thirties could and did screw around with various guys. Girls who were natives, living in the city, were generally faithful, nice, sweet. Same with the out of town hotties (9 or near nine). The girl next door 5-6-7 however, went insane. The subject of their affections too were the same guys. Macho-cocky, funny, total PUA. I know one guy who nailed five different girls.

    Lesson: Market power imbalance empowers the girls on the lower end, perhaps more than the ones on the higher end. The 9’s all wanted a guy who was good looking, fun, smart, and had something on the ball. That made them more selective, but it’s like shopping for a Saab. You can’t find them anywhere. Meanwhile, the 5-6-7’s could and did get almost any of the PUA guys to pump them. And did not really care about being dumped either. They just went on to the next.

    Like


  171. DA the troll from another dimension:
    I am currently working on an iPhone app that looks for women with nails who are capable of loving a beta. So far, it doesn’t work. When you set it to look for alpha-loving women, it overwhelms the iPhone’s processor.

    congratulations, this is the second funniest thing you’ve ever written here.

    Like


  172. on June 23, 2009 at 1:00 am Hollywood Hotsauce

    I think females on this forum should just stop giving game advice! I know you guys can’t resist and you want to feel “involved” like you’re giving “valuable” advice but you’re really not….however…tips and guidelines on the right speed and velocity a guy should utilise when sticking it up your rectum would be a lot more pertinent… 🙂

    Like


  173. on June 23, 2009 at 1:02 am Tupac Chopra

    you are so full of shit. a thug-lite chasing low class single mom like yourself wouldn’t give a guy like whiskey the time of day in real life, except to have him over to cook your dinners pro bono and sans boner.

    Love might bloom if Whiskey brought his finely crafted culinary delights over to Lady Rain’s house on a BMX bike…

    Like


  174. Tyler Durden, the Game Guru, once said that when women tell you what they’d like for a man to do that she is only telling you what her dream guy would do on a date (or courtship) that would make her feel like she was actually good enough to be with HIM.

    She’s dreaming of Cary Grant when she is explaining how he would be “very respectful to me, and compliment me on my outfit, and tell me my new hair color is pretty, and hold the door open, and….., and……, and”.

    If YOU do all of that shit, you come off as a pussy.

    Like


  175. Whiskey,

    Your problem is that you often form an idée fixe that is based on some true observations, but taken to ridiculous extremes and blown out of all proportion. Whenever there is some general tendency in human behavior, you immediately derive from it a simplistic and absolute iron law of nature, and you insist on using it to explain everything that ever happens in real life, no matter how ludicrous it makes you sound. If you start behaving with that same attitude around girls when your self-control fails you, it’s no wonder they want to run. Hell, *I* wouldn’t be able to stand it after a while.

    The foolishness of your stubborn and simplistic approach is visible in the list of things that you’ve identified as chick-repellents. You look at the list of all things you’ve ever done for girls that dumped you and process them robotically: Whiskey did X for chick; chick left Whiskey later => doing X repels chicks always, no matter what. You’ve also drawn the master conclusion, of course: doing ANYTHING for a woman is a mistake, because it’s beta, and women will hate your guts the moment they sniff even the remotest indication of beta behavior, irreversibly and without exception. I mean, it’s consistent with Whiskey’s Simple Iron Laws of Women’s Psyche, so it must be true. It’s also confirmed by the attitude of some obnoxious feminist broad who writes for gossip websites, so obviously it applies to all women everywhere, right? Life is harsh and painful, but at least it’s simple!

    In reality, of course, things are much more complex. Cooking for girls can be anything from an epic fail to an excellent move, depending on both the circumstances and the execution, as several people have already explained. Helping them with technical stuff, including computers, is generally OK, as long as you don’t make a geek fest out of it. (Don’t expect to woo them with your computer skills, but with the right attitude, competence in more manly work can look like a major plus.) Beta moments can usually be salvaged unless you really exaggerate, except perhaps in the earliest stages of the relationship (obviously, I’m talking about LTRs, not pick-up here). Dancing? With most girls, you don’t have to do it, and nobody’s forcing you to make an ass out of yourself if you’re bad in it. Dorky comics and trash TV? Why do you even bring up this stuff in conversations? If you started rambling to me about your “detailed knowledge of the Dark Horse, Valiant, and Malibu Comic book lines,” I’d be bored to death too. Is it supposed to reflect badly on girls that they’re not interesting in this stuff either? (Mind you, you said “expressing detailed knowledge,” so obviously you were really pushing it.) You’re dumping all these things in the same category naively and stubbornly.

    Also, your writing just oozes that David Alexander attitude “life is horrible and I’ve been dealt a miserable hand, but I’m cool because I don’t fool myself about it and call spade a spade.” You’ve both contrived a simplistic fantasy dystopian world based on nuggets of ugly truths about human nature, and you’re both venting your anger and soliciting pity with over-the-top comments directed at this imaginary world. Girls aren’t the devils that you paint them to be, but they are indeed extremely good at sniffing out desperation and frustration, and they’re quite right to blow off men who display such attitudes. If there’s something about you that will repel a girl instantly as soon as you lower your guard, it’s this attitude — possibly combined with unnecessary outbursts of dorkiness such as “expressing detailed knowledge” of comic books — not the fact that you cooked a dinner for her or fixed her computer.

    Like


  176. whiskey:
    By contrast, the 9.5 went about four months after we imploded to a new guy.

    this doesn’t surprise me. 8, 9 and 10s are choosier than the mid-range girls, and the lower end girls can be downright slutty as long as they aren’t so fat or ugly that desperate guys can’t get it up for them.
    overall, though, the 6s and 7s seem to me to have the most extensive sexual history, and i suspect this is because with the freedom to shamelessly chase alphas who don’t mind pumping and dumping them, they have lost all perspective of their proper place in the sexual market hierarchy.

    note also that most men are afraid to approach 9s and 10s, so they paradoxically wind up with fewer opportunities *that they would wish to act upon* for flings than the “attainable” looking girls.

    Like


  177. @HollywoodHotsauce:

    I can’t give advice on anything then. 😦

    I’ll just sit and watch.

    Like


  178. vlad:
    Beta moments can usually be salvaged unless you really exaggerate, except perhaps in the earliest stages of the relationship.

    yeah, whiskey, i’ll second vlad’s point here. general rule of thumb: the longer you have been in a relationship, the larger your margin for beta backsliding.
    if you tell a girl she’s beautiful on the first date, you stand a good chance of blowing yourself out.
    if you tell your lover of 3 years she’s beautiful, she will feel happy all over again to be with you.

    Like


  179. Collegeboy — My rants are not that far off Roissy’s or Obsidians for that matter. It’s all the same thing — blowup of the nuclear family.

    And see my comments above regarding the MBA program (which shall remain nameless). It was NOT the uber-hot girls going slutty. Cause they didn’t. It was the “girl next door” and the geez, the foreign girls, who were 3-4-5’s at best, who were totally out of control.

    David A — What am I complaining about? I was crazy about this girl. I wanted more than just the sex.

    Roissy, yes bingo again on LR.

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  180. @Roissy:
    I always wondered why so many fat and/or not that attractive girls managed to get guys.

    And one day, one of my male friends told me,”Look, the fat girls are shouting,’FUCK ME! FUCK ME!’ You just say,’Let’s be friends.’ That’s where the difference is.”

    He was right.

    Like


  181. on June 23, 2009 at 1:38 am Hollywood Hotsauce

    Mandy I knew you would understand. You’re probably the most agreeable of all the female commenters so far..hurrah for femininity!!

    Like


  182. whiskey:

    Yes. I had slept with her. After the third date. But before the fourth. “Come on over.” “OK.”

    If she slept with you after the third date and dumped you soon after, she’s firmly in the slut category. (Unless you did something really dramatic to creep her out.) You’ve got nothing to regret — you already got everything she’s good for, and getting into a long relationship with her would most likely have resulted in nothing but disaster.

    Like


  183. Whiskey-
    Secret west side hang out: Snug Harbor on Wilshire. West of the Bocce Court. Great food. Inexpensive. Family place, been around 50+ years.

    Secret #2: Pass up skybar and head to Boa on sunset. There’s always a line outside to get into the bar, so just walk into the restaurant entrance, and hang a right before you hit the hostess station, then walk straight into the bar. There’s a bouncer there, so pretend that you just ate dinner in the restaurant and he’ll let you in for free.

    Bonus, your date will think you are the shit when you breeze past all the suckers waiting outside in line for hours, to pay $20 to get in. Just like Ray Liotta in Goodfellas sneaking his future wife into the nightclub, through the kitchen.

    Like


  184. Vlad — She and I lasted about two months, a little over. We had sex until the disastrous date. It was just a total disaster.

    The date before, she wanted to come over and help me study for my GMAT. Like a stupid moron, I declined. Because I knew I would not get any studying done. Moron!

    Let me repeat: this was a drop-dead gorgeous girl I’d known for six years, was crazy about the moment I had seen her but played “hi” cool, who had gone through a succession of guys who were tall (all 6′ 4″), professionals (one was a teacher, another a reporter) and had cheated on her, smacked her around. She had basically decided to change up her pitch, so to speak, and when I heard she was single (again) was immediately receptive to a date, and was making out with me on the second date. [I am 5’8″.]

    I was definitely NOT her type, but all I had to do was not F- it up. Which predictably I did by making an over-the-top effort to impress her. We crashed and burned around Date #10-12, don’t exactly remember which. I’d slept over at her place a number of weekends. she’d been over to my zoo (obnoxious room-mates) any number of times, a considerable drive for her.

    She was hardly slutty, serial monogamy, and went about four months or so (don’t remember exactly) after me until she hooked up with the guy she later married. Who was about half-way between my size and her prior exes, about 5’11” or so.

    The girls I never really cared about, they lasted the longest, about six months to maybe eight months (not really sure). Shrug. What can I say?

    Like


  185. AJ — I will definitely try Snug Harbor and Boa. A fun thing to do around Wilshire is the museums, then a cheap dinner at Farmer’s Market, then people watch around the Grove. Not much fighting cross-town traffic, decent on a Saturday, fairly inexpensive.

    It works on arty chicks, but sadly the national supply of nice arty chicks has been going down, replaced by arty slutty chicks. Sigh.

    Like


  186. I’ve only told two girls that “beautiful” stuff, and so on, and that was about two months into a sexual relationship.

    Bam.

    That’s generally my danger zone. We’ve had sex. Things are going good. Overconfident.

    First and second dates are all about a good time with nothing but companionship.

    Like


  187. Whiskey,

    I don’t know what you’re doing wrong but everytime I’ve gone over to a chick’s place and cooked dinner with her I ended up fucking her her for the first time. You should cook 1 or 2 things that you’re good at and have her do most of the rest. Most chicks don’t know shit about wine plus they don’t have a whole lot of money so I always bring it otherwise I end up drinking either 2 buck chuck or something far, far, worse.

    I even bring my ‘fuck kit’ – stuff to stay the night (toothpaste, contact lense cases, etc…) and prominently display it before the dinner. I fall asleep after I get off and don’t feel like driving home. If a chick knows you’re going to spend the night it may break down LMR.

    Like


  188. What am I complaining about? I was crazy about this girl. I wanted more than just the sex.

    Does not compute. You either fuck or hug a girl. You can’t do both to the same girl!

    your writing just oozes that David Alexander attitude

    I would sue for copyright infringement, but my writings are based on the amplified version of an attention-whoring real life person who probably will never date since it infringes on his little Asperger-esque routine of home-work-masturbation-sleep, and forces him outside of his little warm cozy shell*.

    *See: Non-date begging me to come to bar/club with her, and my perpetual refusal. Cause you know, scary drunk racists and women who give dirty looks linger at the bar, right?

    Like


  189. Roissy wrote:

    ” the 6s and 7s seem to me to have the most extensive sexual history, and i suspect this is because with the freedom to shamelessly chase alphas who don’t mind pumping and dumping them, they have lost all perspective of their proper place in the sexual market hierarchy.”

    PRECISELY.

    Folks I got to live this stuff up close with my two roomates that I had back in my twenties. Both men were in the top 10th percentile of attractiveness and one who would have been in the top 5% (at least) of physical attractiveness. They brought home 5’s, 6’s, and 7’s for one-nighters all the time. They’d -date- the 8’s and 9’s.

    Thats the biggest “problem” out there as far as the birthrate is concerned. Top alphas (the top 10%) and lesser alphas (the next 10%) are happy to fuck gals in the middle third of the looks-sweepstakes on the side for years. These gals begin to think that they really OUGHT to be with these top men, but can’t get them “to commit”. After being dumped by them, they chase similar men who are also “out of their league” genetically-speaking (one of my roomates used this kind of language—he knew precisely what was up *primally* and what drove human nature). You dont oft see 8’s-10’s who go childless unless they literally wanted to. The women you see who turn 35 unmarried with no kids are usually women who are 4’s-7’s, and are mad as hell at “men” about it. They really think that being with a man who is a 5 or 6 is “settling”, but the truth is that these men are about their equals in attractiveness (especially with their make-up off).

    Deep down……………..most women above 25 probably know what I wrote above is true, but dismiss the thoughts from their minds. Women want the men they think other women want, the men with “status” and who instill fear in other men in various social situations (usually by ostientatious displays of their willingness to go to prison rather than lose face, which is all you really have to do to get 90% of men to back down from you). We are going to have, in about a decade, the largest contingent of over 35-childless women that we have ever had on earth, many staring old-maid-ism right in the face. Its not going to be pretty. I think these gals will find that once no longer reproductively viable that men wont give a fuck about them or what they think or their insults or their feelings, any of that.

    Like


  190. are going to have, in about a decade, the largest contingent of over 35-childless women that we have ever had on earth, many staring old-maid-ism right in the face. Its not going to be pretty.

    Au contraire. Unmarried men of, say, 45 will have it MADE. They will get to bang women who were in college when these men were in their 30s.

    Like


  191. z,

    you’re right. Most single chicks over the age of 32 are ugly. At that aged divorced chicks are far better bets than never-been-married. Just look at any personal adds and compare the hotness at age 35 for divrorced versus single.

    Like


  192. whiskey:

    why all the personal openness all of a sudden? are you on tilt, in regards to females?

    keep your head up man, you fucked a 9.5 which is better than 95% of men will be able to achieve in their lifetimes…yeah, maybe you fucked up something bigger and better, but it’s a learning opportunity.

    Like


  193. Chicpea,

    You still have zero knowledge about Game, and it will stay that way, as you are incapable of learning.

    Men with Game do NOT buy drinks or dinner for women. They don’t have to, and know that it is counterproductive. Ask any man with Game (Obsidian or doug1 or Tupac, for example).

    Disagree if you want – it is the reality of Game.

    Like


  194. > willingness to go to prison rather than lose face,
    > which is all you really have to do to get 90% of men
    > to back down from you

    Count me in that 90%… I’d rather lose face in the real world rather than spend a year where my only chance of sex is to punk some meth head. My hinges just don’t go that way – i just don’t know how a guy can pop wood for that.

    Like


  195. the largest contingent of over 35-childless women that we have ever had on earth, many staring old-maid-ism right in the face

    I see several options:

    1) Adopting little foreign kids under the guise of SWPLism.
    2) Not using birth control during alpha cock worship.
    3) Sperm donors and expensive IVF treatments.
    4) Finding a sucker (aka beta/herb who isn’t David Alexander) who will pay for IVF, and after several years of marriage, serve as a “victim’s trust” for 18 years.

    Mind you, I do find it interesting that 4 to 7s will go for the single mother route, but not realize that once they have kids, their chance of securing an alpha in something resembling a long-term relationship declines by 200%.

    Like


  196. whiskey:

    Vlad — The dinner itself was not the problem, it was that I made a big Beta production out of it AND did not involve her AND it was an obvious move to impress her.

    But it was also out of my competence zone as smooth. It screamed beta. You might pull it off, I just can’t. I’m not saying it’s an iron law.

    Oh, it isn’t? Let’s revisit some of your statements:

    Doing ANYTHING for a woman, but especially with computers, is LJBF self-immolation. Cooking is of course a disaster, UNLESS you are professional chef.

    A guy who cooks is indeed “a kitchen bitch” and viewed as unmasculine (it’s also a tip-off of a guy who has lived on his own for some time) and screams to women “cheap” no matter what.

    This applies to cooking (guys — NEVER EVER DO IT for women, EVER), technology, pretty much EVERYTHING.

    You should tone down your rhetoric if you don’t want to sound so bullheaded. And don’t get offended, but you really sound like a shrieking hysterical woman when you write in this style together with screaming in all caps. Seriously, you’d better drop this attitude, and make absolutely sure that you’re not lapsing into it in real life. It will repel all girls withing a mile radius, and I won’t blame them for it.

    I tried to hard to impress her, and epic fail.

    See, now you’re being reasonable. You need to ask yourself how to avoid trying too hard to impress girls in general, instead of naively compiling a list of things through which your overeagerness happened to manifest itself in the past, regardless of whether they’re actually bad by themselves. This is Logic 101, and I don’t understand why I even have to spell it out for you.

    And you’re not reading what I wrote. My fails were all getting too comfortable and blurting out beta stuff. Stuff that undermined their perception of me as this sophisticated guy who had it together. Comic book geekery, Star Trek geekery, other stupid stuff.

    And who’s forcing you to talk about this stuff to girls? If you really can’t stop yourself from talking about things that people around you aren’t interested in, then it’s a more general problem that you need to solve even regardless of your issues with girls. It’s an elementary social skill. (I’ll grant you that rambling about Star Trek and comic books will be a turn-off for nearly all girls, but I can hardly condemn womankind on that account.)

    Helping a girl with a computer screams BETA. It screams BETA CHUMP. Maybe Roissy or Mystery could pull it off. Maybe. Too many Beta guys have done that, to make it worthwhile.

    I’m not talking about trying to woo a girl by showing off your computer knowledge. That would be retarded. What I’m saying is that if you happen to be in a situation where she’s stuck with a problem with her computer and you go ahead and fix it, you haven’t done anything bad at all unless you choose to make a pathetic geeky exhibition out of it. (You’re shrieking again, by the way. Relax.)

    Whiskey, I know a bunch of people who work in engineering and IT professions and show absolutely no shame or remorse about it, and still have hot girlfriends who adore them. Some of them are even fairly successful players. Girls are repelled by dorkiness, lack of manliness, and bad social skills — not by intelligence, erudition, technical expertise, or good manners. Sadly, in the modern North American culture the latter comes with the former all too often, but there is no necessary connection, and I personally know plenty of counterexamples.

    You are exhibiting the same behavior.

    What are you talking about?

    I DON’T think that Beta moments can be salvaged, in a LTR, if you have less to work with. Dave in Hawaii and PA are both tall guys, rugged, knock-about lives, Dave worked as a bouncer. That gave him time, space, and wiggle room to recover from errors.

    And there you go, stubbornly interpreting everything in terms of your fixed ideas again. Dave sensibly changed his behavior, correcting his mistakes that seem obvious in retrospect, and it worked. So you instantly search for a way to reconcile his story with your simplistic theory that women viscerally hate any man who isn’t a slimy Don Juan or a testosterone-driven thug. Again, a vague reflection of the real world situation can be seen in your ideas, but it’s caricatured and exaggerated to absurdity.

    I certainly don’t see any evidence of you recovering from beta-dom. You’re not married. You’re not living with anyone. You might have a higher notch count than myself (I probably have better and worse quality chicks) but you are not any different than myself. I sure as hell don’t see any evidence of it.

    How do you know anything about me? I don’t remember writing anything about my notch count or present relationship status here; anonymous bragging on the internet is the last thing I’d ever want to do. (You’re probably confusing me for someone else.)

    I’m writing this out of purely friendly motives. You seem like a smart and nice guy who got stuck with some stubborn fixed ideas, and it seems like this obsession is really taking a toll on you. I’m trying to shake you out of it.

    Like


  197. @ whiskey

    “Your boyfriend, like a big shot celeberity or teen idol like Pete Wentz, can afford to beta-ize himself. Joe Average cannot.”

    I don’t think that cooking for me = beta-izing himself. SRSLY. But, I suppose we’ve already established that ’twas not the deed, but the delivery, which = beta.

    Anyway, I have a soft spot for anyone who feeds me. 🙂

    “Your boyfriend is tall, good looking, muscular.”

    Careful with all the LILGRL BF <3, it's going to go to his head.

    "The date before, she wanted to come over and help me study for my GMAT. Like a stupid moron, I declined. Because I knew I would not get any studying done. Moron!"

    Mmmhmm. The GMAT (and situations surrounding it) is where love happens. True story!

    @ A.J. Travis

    “Since you like technology so much, you should love the fact that I am using photoshop to ‘enhance’ your slutty half-naked pics, that you posted on your blog, and reposted them on http://amateurcumsluts.com/

    Sweet. I’ve been wanting to break into the industry. Fan art!

    @ Vladimir

    “You look at the list of all things you’ve ever done for girls that dumped you and process them robotically: Whiskey did X for chick; chick left Whiskey later => doing X repels chicks always, no matter what. You’ve also drawn the master conclusion, of course: doing ANYTHING for a woman is a mistake, because it’s beta, and women will hate your guts the moment they sniff even the remotest indication of beta behavior, irreversibly and without exception.”

    True. I think Vlad is onto something. Epoxytocin No. 87 made a similar point earlier:

    “If you tried to woo a woman with a florid love poem and were rebuffed, would you conclude that all women must HATE HATE HATE words, and thus that you should never talk to a woman again, preferring instead to lure her with Primeval Grunt Game thenceforth?”

    Like


  198. whiskey:

    Let me repeat: this was a drop-dead gorgeous girl I’d known for six years, was crazy about the moment I had seen her but played “hi” cool, who had gone through a succession of guys who were tall (all 6′ 4″), professionals (one was a teacher, another a reporter) and had cheated on her, smacked her around. She had basically decided to change up her pitch, so to speak, and when I heard she was single (again) was immediately receptive to a date, and was making out with me on the second date. [I am 5’8″.] […] She was hardly slutty, serial monogamy, and went about four months or so (don’t remember exactly) after me until she hooked up with the guy she later married.

    Sorry for being this blunt, Whiskey, but on reading this, I think you were foolish to fall for her, no matter how pretty she was. A succession of adventures with alpha guys who ran major asshole game on her, and then she decides to reform and find a nice guy. I’ve seen that before, and in cases like this one, I’m even more cynical and pessimistic than you usually are. Even if her “serial monogamy” didn’t involve very large numbers, such a history likely places her into the damaged goods category. I don’t think you had any chance for a long and enjoyable relationship with her, let alone anything more, and you’re probably lucky that you managed to have sex with her and still get out of it without major trouble.

    Like


  199. @ whiskey

    “Your boyfriend, like a big shot celeberity or teen idol like Pete Wentz, can afford to beta-ize himself. Joe Average cannot.”

    I don’t think his cooking for me = beta-izing himself. But, I suppose we’ve already established that ’twas not the deed, but the delivery, which = beta.

    “Your boyfriend is tall, good looking, muscular.”

    Careful with all the LILGRL BF doing X repels chicks always, no matter what. You’ve also drawn the master conclusion, of course: doing ANYTHING for a woman is a mistake, because it’s beta, and women will hate your guts the moment they sniff even the remotest indication of beta behavior, irreversibly and without exception.”

    Truth! I think this is worth taking another look at, whisk. It’s like Epoxytocin No. 87 said, earlier:

    “If you tried to woo a woman with a florid love poem and were rebuffed, would you conclude that all women must HATE HATE HATE words, and thus that you should never talk to a woman again, preferring instead to lure her with Primeval Grunt Game thenceforth?”

    Mmmhmm.

    Okay, so I really just liked “thenceforth”…but it’s still worth looking at.

    Like


  200. Hmm that messed up. Hold on.

    Like


  201. Should’ve been:

    Careful with all the LILGRL BF LOVE, guys, it’ll go to his head.

    “The date before, she wanted to come over and help me study for my GMAT. Like a stupid moron, I declined. Because I knew I would not get any studying done. Moron!”

    The GMAT (and situations surrounding it) is where love happens. True story!

    @ A.J. Travis

    “Since you like technology so much, you should love the fact that I am using photoshop to ‘enhance’ your slutty half-naked pics, that you posted on your blog, and reposted them on http://amateurcumsluts.com/

    Sweet. I’ve been wanting to break into the industry. Fan art!

    @ Vladimir

    “You look at the list of all things you’ve ever done for girls that dumped you and process them robotically: Whiskey did X for chick; chick left Whiskey later =…”

    And then continue.

    Ah, I see what messed it up.

    Like


  202. on June 23, 2009 at 4:44 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    Whiskey:

    The date before, she wanted to come over and help me study for my GMAT. Like a stupid moron, I declined. Because I knew I would not get any studying done. Moron!

    “You’re insufficient, bitch!”

    Like


  203. And who’s forcing you to talk about this stuff to girls? If you really can’t stop yourself from talking about things that people around you aren’t interested in, then it’s a more general problem that you need to solve even regardless of your issues with girls. It’s an elementary social skill.

    I think that’s an issue with a sizable number of men. They have slightly esoteric or non-mainstream interests, and and have little interest (or knowledge) in mainstream stuff which makes it harder for them have conversations, especially with women. Thus, you’ll end up with a railfan who knows a lot of about trains, but very little about what’s popular, which makes him less attractive and boring to the average female. Of course, one could suggest that they learn about mainstream stuff, but some either relish in being anti-mainstream while others just can’t simply find it enjoyable.

    Like


  204. on June 23, 2009 at 6:08 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    Thus, you’ll end up with a railfan who knows a lot of about trains, but very little about what’s popular, which makes him less attractive and boring to the average female.

    David, I haven’t watched a television show in almost twenty years, and the extent of my pop-culture knowledge, apart from the occasional internet tidbit, is gleaned thirdhand from conversations with women.

    Do you think this is an impediment to my game?
    Not in the slightest bit.
    Fuck, I’ve had women in conniptions of laughter by telling stories about … grocery shopping.

    You just need to get better at telling stories.

    Like


  205. You just need to get better at telling stories

    Don’t make it up, make it good.

    Like


  206. The line about marriage and kids being a thing of the past is spot on. Not so sure about the job part, but I get your bigger point.

    That said, the whole idea of using the i-phone directly in a pick up nears dorkdom. SERIOUSLY: Think of the alphas Roissy talks about on here…how many of them would do something like that? Can you see Cary Grant from the video a few days ago pulling out a gimic? Can you see Chris Brown doing it? Can you see Steve McQueen resorting to that?

    Now using it behind their backs to track them…credited.

    Like


  207. marriage and kids being a thing of the past is spot on

    complete bullshit. The explosion in the number of single old people that is going to happen in the next years will discredit this view. I’d rather say that acivilization that discourages marriage and kids is a thing of the past

    Like


  208. What the iPhone giveth, the iPhone can taketh away… now they’ve figured out how to turn the iPhone into a vibrator. Who needs a man when your phone can double as a vibrator? lol

    Like


  209. the iphone also calls you bitch and slpas your ass while doing it? when you are sitting over the iphone, does it finger you in the ass?

    Like


  210. on June 23, 2009 at 9:09 am Virginia Gentleman

    This is totally unrelated to Apple game, but it might be a victory for a measure of sanity: Jon Gosselin is getting a divorce. Money quote:

    “I was too passive. I just let her rule the roost and do whatever she wanted,” Jon said on his marriage. “Now I finally stood up on my own two feet, and I’m proud of myself.”

    Like


  211. Hey, just wanting to know, if Roissy’s OK-just got word that a big Metro train crashed went down in DC. Roissy if you’re out there, holla back!

    O

    Like


  212. “Jon & Kate plus Eight” turned into a case-study in matriarchy. The money came magically from the sky; ie., from the reality show. The wife then took over running the roost, because nesting and child-raising is a woman’s skill. The husband became an afterthought in the whole arrangement.

    Too much of a regular guy to play the baby-daddy mooching off the wife’s table, he just disappeared into insignificance.

    Good for him to be discovering his mistake.

    The marriage must NEVER be “all about the kids.” The kids eventually fly away, but the couple will always be with each other. Marriage needs to be like a platoon with the man as the Captain commanding its overall direction, and the wife as an NCO tending to the day-to-day business.

    Like


  213. @lexi- that sounds a little on the unsanitary side to me. best not to have a multi-use device for that, but a specially-engineered single-use device (vibrator). no? 😉

    @VG – that whole thing is manufactured for maximum ratings/money, of course. i am quietly impressed by the PR/publicity people for Jon & Kate. whatever they got paid was worth it. how these two noninteresting nobodies from rural PA ended up on every tabloid and the evening news is quite amazing. this morning i saw Jon & Kate’s divorce reported on .. CNN. yeesh. but you are right – the story of Jon finding his balls in that manufactured drama is relevant to the board.

    @Madras – that’s what I said, but was outnumbered.

    @LILGRL – GMAT love? really? i’m a GMAT prep course instructor/tutor, have been for 2 years. i haven’t seen love bloom among any of my students – co-studying sessions, maybe. seems even less likely of a topic to inspire romance than the iPhone, ferchrissakes … 😉

    @whiskey – i agree that your posts about your dating history/insights are a little more interesting and useful for the board than the usual decline-of-the-west stuff. and unfortunately, i agree that your problems are nowhere near as bad as you make them out to be, and are caused mainly by a fair dose of DA-style self-defeatism.

    the point about beta men always having to “keep the mask on” is a little better. but it’s also a little off. LTR game isn’t a mask, like you’re pretending to be someone or something you’re not. it’s just keeping the upper hand in the relationship, keeping your male role on the surface, in whatever way is consistent with what/who you are. DFH is a bouncer/martial arts guy; fine. his style works for him. if you have an artsy/geeky side that is a big part of who you are, then long-term, you need a girl who can relate to that, accept it, and even dig it. there are some out there.

    then, you can establish dominance in a way that is natural for you. the error is in thinking you have to wear a “mask” to attract women – your alpha side, your better alpha self, is going to be a recognizable augmentation of your usual “beta” self. not something totally different. if you go into a reltationship thinking you have to be false to yourself in that way, then you’re basically setting up the blowups of the kind that you described.

    also – where was the MBA? UCLA anderson?

    Like


  214. on June 23, 2009 at 9:55 am Gunslingergregi

    Whiskey putting carpentry into same basket as cooking. Fuck no!

    Carpentry is for you the man and is definetly in the league of mens work.

    Cooking like dishes if you hands touch a dish for a reason of making it clean you are fucking up. I knew from really young age womans work vs mens work. Don’t try to do womans work your just intruding on there shit and competing with them at their job.

    ”””””””””””’PA,
    The marriage must NEVER be “all about the kids.” The kids eventually fly away, but the couple will always be with each other. Marriage needs to be like a platoon with the man as the Captain commanding its overall direction, and the wife as an NCO tending to the day-to-day business.””””””””””””

    Yea shit man in the house should be doing whatever the fuck he wants. Every once in a while you grab her ass up while she is sweeping the floor and kiss her or toss her ass on the bed. Every once in a while after she is done washing your balls and shaving you. You bend her over the tub and go to work on that ass. You don’t even know what cooking looks like. You just know that somehow food magically appears on a plate and is brought to you. You rate the food by taste and if it is good you let her know. If it is not you let her know so she can practice more till she cooks food that you like. She knows you like to drink coke so somehow these magically appear in your hand when you are thirsty. Sometimes you think it would be nice to have some cigerettes while I am laying the fuck out doing what I like to call la la which is doing jack shit nothing but focusing on relaxing to the best of my ability and magically some cigs will appear along with a cold drink. Some pillows might magically appear as well under my head. Or you go to the shower just to cool off and somehow a fucking towel with some hands attached to it comes by to dry you off. Or you lay down in bed and there are some titties to use as a pillow.

    I liked pa’s thought before about shit around the house magically fixing itself. Yea no list from her of to do’s. Just if you see some shit that is fucked up you fix it because hell it is fun and gives a manly sense of accomplishment.

    Like


  215. on June 23, 2009 at 10:00 am Gunslingergregi

    Just like shit are you gonna learn to sew too or are you gonna watch your woman notice that you have a couple pockets with some holes in them maybe a pair of jeans that you tore get out a needle and some thread and go to work repairing them sitting on the floor beside you looking at you while doing it while you chill and bask in it while also watching a movie.

    Like


  216. LILGRL-“Blah blah blah, I’m so cool/smart/witty, look at me…”

    #1 I would never be your fan. Asian attention whores, with thunder thighs & huge asses are NOT my style.

    #2 Shouldn’t you be spending your time somewhere else, like trying to convince your friends/family/Self that your “boyfriend” from Frisco, is not cheating on you with other men.

    BTW- You are exactly the type of girl that every normal guy despises. The good news is that you CAN change that. The bad news is that you probably won’t.

    Like


  217. Jon of Jon & Kate is the quintessential beta. I wonder if their contract with TLC had a divorce provision for dividing compensation from the show.

    Jon just needs to read Roissy’s blog for an entire weekend. He’s so AFC it’s ridiculous.

    Like


  218. on June 23, 2009 at 10:11 am Gunslingergregi

    You got to throw woman bones and let them have an area of epertise even if you have to swallow some perfectionism and let them fail a few times at it. Like the first time your woman gives you a haricut it ain’t gonna be perfect. You have to love her enough to let her fuck up even if it takes a bunch of failures she will more than likely get it right at some point then your good. She might be a little afraid she will cut you shaving you for the first time. You may bleed a couple times. You need to have a little patience with her. Then she will know how to do it. So she can have her own set of things that gives her a womanly sence of accomplishment. Just like men can go to a massuse, or barber/salon to get a massage or shave or haircut. Men can go to a tailor or just buy new shit. If you don’t and give your woman a little time to learn some of the shit she may not know yet again sense of accomplishment for a woman she is taking care of her man.

    Like


  219. I see Chris Brown managed to redifine the term “Felony” by avoiding jail time all together:

    http://www.mercurynews.com/entertainment/ci_12666987

    Now he is free once again to punch chicks in the face after they swallow his load.

    But remember, no justice… No Peace.

    Like


  220. @z – fucking brilliant , your assessment is spot on . its their own self-delusion that hinders these 4-7s from realizing their jumpoff/booty call/bust it baby status . we live in a culture and age where men take all responsibility for relationship failures two fold : from themselves (self-defeating betas) and from women who deflect all blame away from themselves by claiming ‘all men are assholes’

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  221. A.J. Travis

    I see Chris Brown managed to redifine the term “Felony” by avoiding jail time all together:

    Now he is free once again to punch chicks in the face after they swallow his load.

    But remember, no justice… No Peace.

    c’mon now – have faith – they’ll eventually come out to protest. when one gets off for killing a white girl.

    Like


  222. PA kinda stole my thunder, but there’s still a bit of meat on the bone.

    I’ve never been a big tv watcher, and definitely not a “reality tv” watcher, but I’d heard of “Jon & Kate Plus 8”, and right off, the premise literally made me sick. In my social circles I was poo pooed as a kind of moralizing fuddy-duddy, but just look at the events of today. Jon & Kate have officially announce their ON AIR divorce, Ed McMahon dies, at 86.

    Now, I don’t know about anybody else, but I see a big change here. Though I came of age in the twilight years of The Tonight Show, I recall very well Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon, in fact remember like it was yesterday, their final show. What was that, 1993 or so? And, although Jay Leno, if I recall was annoited Carson’s successor, like most younger African Americans, I tuned in to Arsenio Hall, who always claimed that *his* inspiration was Carson.

    McMahon was part of the Greatest Generation, like my grand-dad, and so many other Americans. He didn’t need a “reality show” to crow about his duty in the Good War. Like the vast majority of the Men of his time, he handled his business, went back home, and started a new life. In fact, I’m pretty sure, that had I’d known him personally he would not have even talked about his service in the war unless directly asked, like my grand-dad. Such was the way of Men back then.

    I’m not a Doom & Gloomer, but I gotta tell ya, to see the passing of Ed McMahon, at the same time that we’re about to witness the realtime dismantling of a family on Prime Time TV, is to me a true changing of the guard. Within less than 20 years, we have seen a huge drop from the classiness, selflessness and just true grit, of an Ed McMahon, to the the overtly crass, selfishness and utter narcissism of a Jon & Kate, and the rest of their “reality tv” ilk.

    And I say, if this ain’t the End of Western Civ, it’ll do till the real thing shows up.

    Um, um, um…smh

    The Obsidian

    Like


  223. @AJ – WTF? man, you come across as mean and bitter. the beta revolution stuff was amusing, if a little ridiculous, but now you’re just being unpleasant. news flash: game, and pickup, are for men who LIKE women. DIG them, love them, want to understand them better, want to have fun while charming them into the sack. one of the few beefs i have with this board is that the comments can slide a little too easily into misogyny. and you are exhibit A for that, along with maybe Arpagus.

    lose the hate! it’ll make you a better man for sure. sorry to be so direct, but this comment is intended in the spirit of helpful advice, as with the whiskey subthread yesterday. take in that spirit if you can.

    Like


  224. @maurice

    “Game, and pickup, are for men who LIKE women. DIG them, love them, want to understand them better, want to have fun while charming them into the sack. one of the few beefs i have with this board is that the comments can slide a little too easily into misogyny. and you are exhibit A for that, along with maybe Arpagus.”

    WORD!

    Like


  225. David Aleander = Dr. Jekyll
    A.J. Travis = Mr. Hyde

    Like


  226. Aleander = Alexander

    Like


  227. @maurice

    Game, and pickup, are for men who LIKE women. DIG them, love them, want to understand them better, want to have fun while charming them into the sack.

    yeah – it’s like making the decision to have kids, then having to coax them into potty training

    Like


  228. on June 23, 2009 at 10:42 am Gunslingergregi

    ””””””’on June 22, 2009 at 10:08 pm Default User
    chic noir asked if:

    [I] iron well.

    I can do all my own cooking, house cleaning, clothes washing, and ironing. I don’t offer it as a service. I don’t expect it (or want it) to be done for me. I enjoy cooking because I enjoy eating. Microwave meals are a great convenience; they are not a fulltime diet.””””””””””””””’

    lol of course guys can do all that. The question is shuould you?

    Like


  229. on June 23, 2009 at 10:45 am Gunslingergregi

    The thing about you guys that do all the womanly work so great as you put it and are good at it. Then what the fuck do you need a woman for. You don’t she probably would get in the way when your trying to clean the house or wash dishes. That may be part of the problem with picking up woman they see they are not needed.

    Like


  230. “Thats the biggest “problem” out there as far as the birthrate is concerned. Top alphas (the top 10%) and lesser alphas (the next 10%) are happy to fuck gals in the middle third of the looks-sweepstakes on the side for years. These gals begin to think that they really OUGHT to be with these top men, but can’t get them “to commit”. After being dumped by them, they chase similar men who are also “out of their league” genetically-speaking (one of my roomates used this kind of language—he knew precisely what was up *primally* and what drove human nature). You dont oft see 8’s-10’s who go childless unless they literally wanted to. The women you see who turn 35 unmarried with no kids are usually women who are 4’s-7’s, and are mad as hell at “men” about it. They really think that being with a man who is a 5 or 6 is “settling”, but the truth is that these men are about their equals in attractiveness (especially with their make-up off).”

    Yup.

    This is pretty much exactly correct.

    When women whine about “where are all the good men?” and so on, what they are really whining about is that they failed to snag men who are out of their league, despite the fact that such men would sleep with them regularly when they were cute and in their 20s. Amazingly, many women don’t get the fact that guys who are 8-10 will pump and dump girls who are 5-7 Monday through Thursday, and then date 8-10s on the weekend.

    I think that’s because of the tendency to project. Men are not serial monogamists by nature, men are polygamists by nature and if they can get away with it and pull it off (and don’t have cultural or moral compunctions), will have sex with a different woman each day of the week. Some of these women seem to think that because they are on the sex rotation plan in some 9’s 21st century virtual harem that they have a chance to snag him, when in fact they have no chance doing that at all. If any woman snags him, it will be an 8-10, not you, with your cute 6 or 7 thing going on.

    Like


  231. on June 23, 2009 at 11:54 am Virginia Gentleman

    novaseeker:

    The whole “settling” concept (and its troubles!) comes most clearly illustrated to me in the guise of a man from the recent version of Battlestar Galactica. Commence compressed recounting of several years’ story:

    There’s an relationship between an officer and an NCO, which eventually ends badly. The girl flakes out—long story—and shoots a senior officer; she dies not long thereafter. Our NCO is left alone, but the story doesn’t end. His dream girl technically re-appears as a copy, carrying the son of another guy. The new guy is an officer and objective slab of beefcake; he’s tall, brutish and tough (except when trying to win the war of extinction the characters find themselves in) and yet rather submissive to the girl and her desires.

    Terminally blocked, the NCO guy finds love, or at least the appearance of it, in the arms of another. Later on, he flips out and starts screaming about how he “settled” for a cow with dead eyes, approximately. I don’t recall that anyone ever points out to him that he wasn’t exactly in the female officer’s league himself.

    I just figured I’d throw that out there; it seems to perfectly illustrate the concept novaseeker was talking about, the individual who played a league or two higher than their actual talent being furious and so forth when their (perhaps unreasonable?) ambitions are thwarted.

    Make of it what you will.

    Like


  232. Maurice-
    By definition, I cant be a misogynist. I don’t hate all women. I don’t hate all men. I hate ‘women’ like LILGRL, and I hate the men who enable them.

    A 22yr old girl who posts half-naked pictures of herself on the web is a slut. Plain and simple.

    Maybe a pussy like you never had the benefit of a little negative reinforcement from a father, coach, or military service, but I have, and I can tell you that sometimes, if you want to change someone’s behavior, there is no quicker way to do it than a kick in the ass.

    If LILGRL was the least bit intelligent, she would take those pictures down, and change her slutty ways. One of the reasons that she won’t is because guys like you are still defending her behavior. Never trust a ‘woman’ who craves the attention of more than 1 good man.

    BTW, you giving me advice on how to be a ‘better man’ is ridiculous. Your sole interest seems to be getting laid, and frankly that’s not something to be proud of. Better men build corporations and create jobs for men to support their families with. Better men give money to charity. Better men give their lives for something bigger than themselves.

    Better men also hate injustice. The current sexual culture is unjust, and I will do everything I can to tear it down.

    If you get in my way, then you’ve just made an enemy you don’t want.

    Default User- Aaefe’s awake now, shouldn’t you be over on her blog sniffing around her ass?

    Like


  233. @AJ – over and out. i’m done with you. good luck with the rest of your life – you’ll need it.

    Like


  234. Nova,
    Excellently well put. I was just saying to a friend the other day, that girls and young Women NEED more hardheaded advice and guidance MORE than young boys and young Men do. She disagreed, citing the gross irresponsibility of so many boys and Men in our time.

    I agreed w/her point, but noted agin that it had nothing to do with mine-the bottomline is that it is very possible, indeed common, for Men to make an utter mess of their lives, straighten out, fly right, and within a matter of a few short years, live a completely different, fulfilling life. More often than not, they have a new family to boot.

    Not so for young girls and Women-by nature, they have literally, a smaller margin for error. Goofing off, making a fool out of themselves, “partying” and the like, isn’t something they as easily drop and “go straight” if you will. Women only have a limited amount of time-at best, if she’s very lucky and blessed genetically, she’ll have 25 years from onset of first menses, to make good on her eggs. Most Women don’t even have that long-about 15 years on average.

    I’ll speak on it in more detail on the appropriate thread, but what I’ll say now is that Devlin hit the nail on the head, there used to true, real “Wise Women” in nearly every community, who past on their hardwon wisdom of the facts and great truths of life to their daughters, nieces, and even younger girls on the block. Nowadays, the “Crone” is trying to out-slut her younger “sisters”.

    Talk about Monkey see, Monkey do…

    O

    Like


  235. I don’t know what it is about you novaseeker but, if you are saying the same as the French chateau, I understand the message more easily. Maybe I get to distracted by the shiny humor and euphemisms for ladyland. (note: this is not an indirect neg or whatever. I like the writing, it’s why I initially started reading.)

    3 date rule, whiskey, abide the rule. brutal.

    VG: Helo was not brutal, he was just self-righteous with all but Athena. And the Chief was on par with Boomer. (and yes I understand the difference btw an officer and NCO, but as a person he was smart and tough and she was whiny and needy.)

    Like


  236. Gunslingergregi asked:

    of course guys can do all that. The question is shuould you?

    Yes.

    I do not do the live-in thing. It is my house; she comes to visit. It is not “our place” it is my place. It is my place so I need to look after it (and myself).

    That is not to say I do not like having a meal cooked or a shirt ironed but I am not setting up house with some woman just to have stuff done for me.

    Like


  237. Maurice-
    “over and out. i’m done with you. good luck with the rest of your life – you’ll need it.”

    Right back at you slick.

    Like


  238. @VG, al – i agree with al – tyrol was closer to boomer in desirability than to cally, despite the difference in military rank. they seemed pretty happy together, even though they hid their relationship, until she found out she was a cylon. but VG’s point is pretty good, too – men can get bitter if they think they’ve married down, or if they actually have, just as women can.

    Like


  239. on June 23, 2009 at 1:00 pm Virginia Gentleman

    al:

    Good point; self-righteousness oozed off of him way more than anyone else on that program, a considerable accomplishment. However, I think “brutal” applies. Look at how the guy went nuts on that Pegasus lieutenant who, admittedly deserved it for the attempted rape of Agathon’s wife.

    He was always willing to employ violence in defense of his prerogatives or those of his wife and child. At the same time, when it came time to do his job as an officer, you could always count on Agathon to be the weakest link. I wound up with nothing but contempt for the guy.

    My evaluation of Chief Tyrol vis-a-vis Lieutenant Valeriiwas solely confined to external appearances. Grace Park is supposed to be the smoking beauty of that series while Aaron Douglas as Tyrol ain’t.

    Your mileage may vary.

    Like


  240. @ al, Maurice, VG —

    but VG’s point is pretty good, too – men can get bitter if they think they’ve married down, or if they actually have, just as women can.

    Indeed. People are most satisfied when they are well matched. The trouble today, though, is that with the sexual free market system combined with greater female sexual opportunity, more women get a “taste” of playing above their league than men do, generally speaking, and I think, as a result, more of them end up perceiving that they are “settling” when in fact they are getting a well-matched mate. It’s a perception issue, because perceptions of her own mate value become distorted upwards simply because some male 9s are happy to have sex with her when she’s 25 and cute.

    Like


  241. A.J. Travis (David Alexander’s evil twin) put on his best Alpha snarl and spat:

    Default User- Aaefe’s awake now, shouldn’t you be over on her blog sniffing around her ass?

    [on LILGRL] A 22yr old girl who posts half-naked pictures of herself on the web is a slut. Plain and simple.

    I am not sure I want to head over to Aoefe’s blog. You see Aoefe does not post half naked pictures of herself. Anyway, if she is already here way make the journey?

    When I last checked LILGRL’s site the pictures looked disappointingly clothed (however the slutty bitch did leave her face uncovered, maybe that is what you meant). Could you please point me to the half naked pictures. Thanks.

    Like


  242. novaseeker

    the 1-10 scale does not apply to males, just like the alpha/beta/o m e g a distinction doesn’t apply to females.

    put 10 men and 10 women in a room. make each one grade the other gender members. in anyway, the 10 women would still like to fuck only 2 or 3 guys of the 10, so those 2 or 3 may receive grades like 8,9 or 10. the other guys would all receive grade 1,2 or 3, grade of unfuckables. game would help one or two of those jump from 3 to 8.

    just like the other way around. the hottest woman in the room is not alpha. no one would like to fuck her only and ignore the existence of the the others. every man would be happy to fuck the 10, and cheat on her with the 9, with 8, with the 7 in rarer circunstances

    Like


  243. A.J. Travis excoriated:

    Maurice-
    I cant be a misogynist. I don’t hate all women. I hate ‘women’ like LILGRL.

    A 22yr old girl who posts half-naked pictures of herself on the web is a slut.

    wow dood – lilgirl is never gonna fuck you with harshin negs like that. then again

    Like


  244. Default User warned:

    Aoefe does not post half naked pictures of herself.

    damn – just when I was starting to like her a little bit

    Like


  245. David Alexander:

    I think that’s an issue with a sizable number of men. They have slightly esoteric or non-mainstream interests, and and have little interest (or knowledge) in mainstream stuff which makes it harder for them have conversations, especially with women. Thus, you’ll end up with a railfan who knows a lot of about trains, but very little about what’s popular, which makes him less attractive and boring to the average female. Of course, one could suggest that they learn about mainstream stuff, but some either relish in being anti-mainstream while others just can’t simply find it enjoyable.

    I’m not saying you should immerse yourself into the popular stuff. On the contrary. Pop culture is filth, and I see no rational reason why anyone would want to waste his time with it. I sure don’t. As one of the above posters has remarked, you can find plenty of good conversation fodder outside of both dorky and popular stuff — and on the other hand, knowledge of pop culture won’t help you with girls at all just by itself. It can be useful for gaming them in certain ways, but on the whole, it’s nearly irrelevant.

    (And anyway, all that dorky stuff is just a niche of the mainstream pop culture that happens to be disliked by women and infested with dorky guys. People who “relish in being anti-mainstream” just because they enjoy some such interest need a serious reality check.)

    Like


  246. “put 10 men and 10 women in a room. make each one grade the other gender members. in anyway, the 10 women would still like to fuck only 2 or 3 guys of the 10, so those 2 or 3 may receive grades like 8,9 or 10. the other guys would all receive grade 1,2 or 3, grade of unfuckables. game would help one or two of those jump from 3 to 8.

    just like the other way around. the hottest woman in the room is not alpha. no one would like to fuck her only and ignore the existence of the the others. every man would be happy to fuck the 10, and cheat on her with the 9, with 8, with the 7 in rarer circunstances”

    Yes, I was using the number scales for men to make my point about matching up more easily. It’s quite right that men are not “ranked” on a scale the way women are. But my point is that people — men and women alike — are happiest when they are well matched (or at least when they think that they did not “settle”). In other words, the matching relates to the scale of the woman comparative to how relatively alpha he is.

    Of course, in our current market conditions, many women decide not to settle and just pursue short term liaisons with the most alpha men they can find. But when it comes to *partner* selection, there is settling going on in almost every case, in their minds, because they can’t snag their desired alphas for a commitment to them in terms of partnership. It’s better for women to realize their own mate value, but the current setup encourages women to exaggerate their own mate value due to their sexual access to alphas.

    Like


  247. Default-
    #1-“Half naked” means in her underwear. You’ve seen the pics I’m talking about. I’m not posting a link because the attention whore does not need any more attention. Anybody who’s looking for hot pics would be disappointed anyway, she’s bottom heavy, like a weeble.

    #2- She’s not attractive to me so covering her face could wouldn’t help. (Yes, I know you were implying that I want women to wear burqas, but since you’re being a fucking idiot on purpose, what’s the point of trying to straighten you out.)

    Like


  248. A.J. Travis

    …but since you’re being a fucking idiot on purpose…

    I have to try to be an idiot but you are a natural.

    PS
    The only pictures I see are her (LILGRL) and boyfriend. Latest one (I just checked) is a tight fitting dress. It is not half naked.

    Like


  249. @ maurice

    “GMAT love? really?”

    True story!

    I worked for a GMAT prep company about a year ago, met my boyfriend, and the rest was history.

    @ A.J. Travis

    All this attention is going to go to my head! 😉

    “If LILGRL was the least bit intelligent, she would take those pictures down, and change her slutty ways.”

    Mmmhmm. My slutty ways? Interesting. I’d love for you to expand on said ways of sluttiness.

    Oh, and sorry to kill the fantasy, but there are no pictures on my blog in which I am in (only) my underwear.

    SRSLY.

    Like


  250. on June 23, 2009 at 2:57 pm Comment_Whatever

    Whiskey said:

    Vlad — She and I lasted about two months, a little over. We had sex until the disastrous date. It was just a total disaster.

    The date before, she wanted to come over and help me study for my GMAT. Like a stupid moron, I declined. Because I knew I would not get any studying done. Moron!

    So WHICH DATE, Whiskey, caused the breakup?

    This is where your Pedestal screwed you good, Whiskey. She was smart enough to realize that if she came over and ‘helps you study’, studying is unlikely to happen. However, like almost all women, she is unable to come out and directly say “I want SEX!”.

    She did make it pretty clear she wanted sex though, and you said no. Next date, she seemed angry, eh? I wonder about what. Maybe the cooking. Yes, the cooking, definitely. Never cook for a woman again, Whiskey! That was the problem!

    In a non-pedestal world, we see that women do indeed want sex. And that turning them down can make them mad.

    What I would have done is make up a reason why she can’t help till around 10. Then say I should probably take a break at 10 and could she please come over with some take-out for us to eat together? Then she can drill me about what I just learned.

    And then sex will ensue! Yes, you will miss some study time, but clearly your girlfriend is more important.

    Like


  251. @LILGRL – a GMAT prep company, eh…? so we were probably competitors. Don’t tell me that the famous alleged hex flirt took place in the context of a GMAT course ..?!? *true* computer geeks look down their noses at MBA types…

    Like


  252. maurice

    …computer geeks look down their noses at MBA types…

    …but real men don’t waste time on girls with only undergrad degrees. unless they’re exotic dancers. or hot skanks

    Like


  253. Maurice,
    I agree, when it comes to Women, once a certain level or “floor” of intelligence is achieved, everything else, in pure mating/dating terms, is really a waste, and its to Womens’ advantage to get this and get it good. The vast majority of Men simply don’t care about the education and credentials a Woman has, again, once a certain floor or baseline intel is in evidence. So if a Woman thinks that turning a guy on is by having an MBA, a PhD, a LLD, an ED, MA, etc et al, they are in for a very rude awakening. For a Woman, her looks and manner of deportment especially early on in the dance, pretty much account for errthing. Not pretty, but y’all know me. Just keepin’ it real.

    O

    Like


  254. Arpagus,
    Did you see my previou comment to you about the book The Game and the attributes of the Alpha Male? If so, please respond.

    O

    Like


  255. @arpagus – noted. that’s consistent with what you’ve written before, but sometimes you can come off as angry at all women. don’t get mad, get even – learn game, learn how to generate attraction, practice, etc. that’s how this blog is best used, not *only* for venting.

    Like


  256. Obsidian —

    Yes, I was getting around to replying. I have indeed read The Game nearly two years ago and that’s how I found out the seduction community is serious and probably can be helpful. I have read a lot more since then and found the best info and encouragement here, but so far no results. I am still learning and hopeful.

    I agree with the importance of smiling and I try to. It is just a little difficult as long as I have no reason to smile. It won’t be congruent, but I guess there is something to be said for fake it until you make it.

    Like


  257. “The vast majority of Men simply don’t care about the education and credentials a Woman has, again, once a certain floor or baseline intel is in evidence. So if a Woman thinks that turning a guy on is by having an MBA, a PhD, a LLD, an ED, MA, etc et al, they are in for a very rude awakening. For a Woman, her looks and manner of deportment especially early on in the dance, pretty much account for errthing. Not pretty, but y’all know me. Just keepin’ it real.”

    @Obsidian —

    Very true, and something, I find, which leads to irrational anger among women, akin to the anger some men have about the greater sexual power/opportunity that most women have over most men. It’s fruitless for women to be angry about this, because it’s just the way it is. Once a certain threshold is passed (which may be different for different guys), the rest of the resume is really not important in terms of attraction. In can be important for partner selection, but when you’re talking partner selection, you’re basically talking about a whole host of additional criteria that come into place *once* attraction is present — so that’s a different issue.

    “Polygamy benefits most women and few men while monogamy does exactly the opposite, and having no hope of being a successful polygamist, I favor monogamy.”

    @Arpagus —

    This is very true. Monogamy as a norm is a male egalitarian norm. It also is the only way humans have come up with to reliably ensure men parentally invest in their offspring, and take an interest in the broader social framework as well. So ditching monogamy as a norm has not only screwed up the dating/mating scenario, but has also coincided with the gradual yet inevitable withdrawal of a lot of men from fatherhood and society in general.

    Having said that, under the current problematic market conditions, much can still be achieved by men who are the natural “losers” in this environment through the use of Game.

    Like


  258. Excellent point to Arpagus, Nova, and I was just about to tell him, that he can indeed turn his situation around.

    But, before we go further, Arpagus, I’m willing to do all I can to help you, and I call on my Brothers in Game to please do the same. Now, w/that said, we have to have an understanding:

    You have to, as PUAs say, “Manage Expectations”. Please do not think that w/a crash course in Game, you’ll suddently be able to land the hottest chicks around-NO, that’s NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. It *can* happen, IF, you put in enough time and work-you have The Game, look how much time Style put into learning Game, and note the results. Your success Arpagus, will be in direct proportion to the amount of time you put into Game, how much you read and study, and how much you actually go out and practice. The more you do of this, the more consistent and better you will get, the reverse will hold if you don’t practice and study.

    So, your goal right now, is to focus on 6s. Sure, you might get lucky and score a solid 7, other days, all that’s available are 5s. By all means go after both. You’re in no position to be choosy, and if read The Game, you’ll notice Style took on all comers, pardon the pun. You need to think like he thinks, if you’re going to be successful.
    But your deliberate, consistent focus, are 6s. Should you accept this mission Arpagus, I’ll help you learn how to get consistent w/picking up, seducing, bedding AND KEEPING Solid 6 Babes-and, please, please, please don’t believe the hype-most guys don’t get laid. So don’t listen to anybody denigratng 6s, because 9 times outta 10 said denigrator is working it out with the hand on Saturday night. His. By being able to consistently bag 6s, by definition alone you’re an Alpha. Why? Well, for one, you’ll know how to get laid, when you want to, for the most part. And two, you’ll have the option as to whether or not you want to get laid, or not. Most guys walking around ar literally at the mercy of Women in this regard. I, and I hope the rest of the Brothers here, will help you to turn that around, for a true Alpha, always options.

    So, we’ll use The Game as a guide, not a straightjacket; it’ll be a jumping off point, and I’ll add my own insights that I’ve learned, both pre and post The Game if you will, and we’ll take it from there.

    You’re mission, Arpagus, should you decide to accept it, is to transform yourself into a likeable, lovable, smooth and intelligent guy the average gal, if she could, would want in her bed.

    Good luck.

    When I hear back from you, we’ll begin.

    This mesage will self destruct, in 5 seconds…

    The Obsidian

    Like


  259. on June 23, 2009 at 4:54 pm Gunslingergregi

    Shit arpargus already been changing which is good. Going from needing to rape a bitch to actually trying two apocalypse openers. As you see though arpargus you need to up the numbers to at least ten.

    Like


  260. on June 23, 2009 at 5:07 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Whiskey,

    First of all, yes I was a bouncer when I was in college….but don’t draw the conclusion from that, that I’m a huge, musclebound guy, football lineman type physique that is typical of most bouncers. I got the job because one of the instructors of the martial arts style I train in was the head bouncer, and he hired only black belts. Believe me, If a guy was starting trouble in the bar, and he was far larger than I, I was no fool, I’d get back up to help get him under control. I’m much more of a technique-focused, speed and agility martial artist, rather than brute strength.

    I’m fairly average build for a part-Hawaiian – 5’11” and 185 lbs. I have an athletic build, but I’m not some musclebound roughneck that intimidates people on first glance.

    However, I am taller than my short filipina wife, so I guess the height thing does come into play as far as relational dynamics goes….

    That being said, I think this post hits close to the mark:

    In reality, of course, things are much more complex. Cooking for girls can be anything from an epic fail to an excellent move, depending on both the circumstances and the execution, as several people have already explained. Helping them with technical stuff, including computers, is generally OK, as long as you don’t make a geek fest out of it.

    This brings me to some of the best advice I ever found online about dating and relating to females by a non-PUA guy…a shooting instructor named John Ross. Check out this column – it applies to ANYTHING you do. Fixing a computer, cooking, or fixing her car.

    From Ross in Range:

    One of the Internet discussion boards I visit is an exceptionally civil and well-run shooting-oriented board. Recently, a young man posted there, asking for advice. He had met “the girl of his dreams” and in a few days was going to have his first date with her. He was taking her shooting, something she was eager to try and had never done. He did not explain exactly how he’d made the offer, but it was clear he was putting a lot of hope into the upcoming date, and was desperate to have it go well. He listed the guns he had available, and asked which ones he should bring and how he should structure the date at the range.

    Most of the advice others gave him was good, as far as it went. They stressed the importance of safety instruction, using light-recoiling guns like .22s, and suggested bringing targets that did something interesting when hit, instead of just punching holes in paper.

    These were all valid points, but from the tone of his post, I saw that this man really needed advice focused on a different area. He was obviously a safe shooter and knew to bring light-recoiling arms for a first-timer. His risk was not that the day would go badly if he brought the wrong guns. It was that he would do the kinds of things that men so often do when they decide a woman is “it.” I began to think of this guy as “Anxious in Austin” and myself as the Relationship Advice Columnist. Here is my reply, edited a bit for Ross in Range.

    Dear Anxious:

    If this really is “the girl of your dreams” I have a few suggestions that don’t have to do with what guns to bring, as others have given you good input on that score.

    1. Maintain an air of quiet competence. People in general dislike motormouthed know-it-alls but are impressed when they see knowledge and skill at work.
    This is doubly true when the activity in question has the potential for danger if safety concerns are ignored.

    THIS is pretty much gold standard advice, whether your fixing a computer or cook her food. It’s not what you’re doing for her as much as it is HOW you do it that really gives off alpha vs. beta vibes.

    Explain, don’t lecture, and early on say something like “If I see you doing something dangerous I’m going to stop you immediately. You probably won’t, but I’m telling you this now so you won’t get upset if I raise my voice. I don’t much care about your marksmanship today but I care a great deal about safe gun handling.”

    2. Do not fawn over her. Pretty girls get this so much they lose all interest in the guys who kiss up to them. New mindset: You are LETTING HER join you in something exciting. I hope the invitation was “I’m going shooting this weekend–it’s going to be perfect weather and there’s a great range I use. If you’d like to join me I’ll pick you up at 8:30, if you’ve got something to wear that you won’t cry about if it gets a little dirt on it” (said with a grin.)

    When she said “yes,” I hope you added “I’m assuming you’re not one of those flaky women who thinks 8:30 means ‘sometime before noon.’ I intend to be at the range by 9:00.”

    3. Pack up and quit shooting while she’s still having a good time. Do not wait until her shoulder or hand hurts or she’s tired.

    4. After shooting, do not make plans right away to do something else next weekend, no matter how well you think things went. I cannot stress this strongly enough: DO NOT SELL TOO FAR IN ADVANCE. Not even if she rips your clothes off on the ride home. End your first date with her while she’s still wanting more, and don’t be too eager to plan the next one. This holds for future dates as well. And don’t think of them as “dates,” think of them as “I’m doing this and I’ll let you join me if you behave.” New mindset: Welcome to MY world.

    5. Be prepared for a test. (Men call this a “shit test,” which is a more accurate term, but from now on I’ll avoid the vulgarism for the sake of Internet decorum.) You may get such a test before you pick her up for the date, a phone call at the last minute telling you her best friend just broke up with her boyfriend and needs consoling, so she has to cancel. It may be an attempt to get you to do something different than what you planned. Do not accept this. Call her on any attempt to change plans. Make it clear such behavior is unacceptable. Be ready to say “Next.”

    Pretty girls have a different reality than you or I have. Their reality is that men almost always do whatever they demand. Believe it or not, the women are tired of this. The “test” is a way to cull out the mediocre males and find the ones with backbone. It’s instinctive for women, because it works so immediately and so well. When you pass one test, you will get another, sometimes right away, sometimes later. This usually goes on as long as you remain involved with a woman, but as you keep passing her tests, they become less and less frequent. Be aware of this, and act accordingly.

    6. Whenever you find yourself wondering what to say or how to act, and wanting to avoid screwing up because you think this girl is THE ONE, imagine how you would treat the hottest babe in your zip code–who happens to be your little sister. You’d tease your little sister, right? You’d laugh at her and call her on it every time she tried to get YOU to behave the same way she gets all the other guys to worship her and do her bidding. When she was acting exceptionally princess-like, you’d tell her of your surprise that she’d wear such a tight skirt when it made her ass look so fat, or a hairstyle that made her ears stick out. Then you’d tell her you liked the way her nose wrinkled up when she got mad, and would she bring you a soda from the kitchen? If you don’t think this works, you’ve never tried it.

    7. Don’t get “one-itis.” Talk to EVERY girl that catches your eye. Tease them. Let others come shooting with you on other weekends (if they promise to behave.) Pretty girls have lots of options–it just happens. You can have lots of options, too, but it won’t just happen. You’ll have to see to that yourself.

    If this guy, John Ross, never heard of the PUA cyber-world, he sure seems to have figured all of the basic principles on his own.

    Like


  261. Obsidian —

    Thank you. I accept the mission and would be delighted if I could get a 5 or 6 and keep her, or at least not having to go years without getting laid at all.

    Like


  262. Dave from Hawaii, I think that made me a little giddy.

    Like


  263. Since LILGRL and her fellow lying stooge Default_User need explicit html, I’ll repost those pictures on my blog.

    http://ar2012.blogspot.com/2009/06/lil-lying-grl-srsly.html

    Her captions are most enlightening, especially where she calls herself an attention whore.

    Enjoy all.

    Like


  264. Vlad —

    You’re not reading again. Dave had plenty of things that a far more experienced PUA Guru, far more advanced in experience and theory, Neil Strauss, did not. This is why Dave, had time and space to correct from Beta dom and Strauss could not do so, despite being accomplished in picking women up.

    I’ve cooked for another girl, AFTER sex and we’d been seeing each other for about six weeks. She cooled noticeably after that and things fell apart, traded me in for a more macho type guy. Then there was the fellow teacher who grabbed me in the empty classroom, we made out right there on her desk, were hot and heavy for weeks. As soon as I cooked Thai for her, things started to fall apart.

    My problem is not approach, sex, or any of that. It’s keeping the girl AROUND afterwards, where I always screw up and I see a massive hole in Game. I don’t see anything developed about how to stay in a relationship, and keep up attraction. I obviously killed attraction. By demonstrating/revealing nerdiness. Girl repellent.

    I DO think that overall, given that I’ve seen similar things women have said around me in the workplace about their husbands/boyfriends, that if you are over 6′, macho, cooking and other things identified as “girly” are OK. My small, wiry, French Chef Neighbor is also OK with that, because he is both very French-macho and it’s his job. But for the rest of us, no. It’s a very, very bad idea. I have seen so many guys FAIL, and epic fail, approaching women in Starbucks offering to help with their computers it’s ridiculous. And what has worked for me, is casual flirting about Art, Science, culture, things I’m good at and stand out from other guys. Any time I’ve offered to help a girl with computer stuff, epic fail, LJBF box. I speak from experience. DOING things for a girl has never, ever worked for me. Not once. Ever. Meanwhile, talking about Art, skiing, suggesting a date to a museum or ski outing, has worked every time except once. Nearly 99%.

    [I never went in for overboard stuff, always casual. It’s always AFTER the sex that I really, really fall for them big time. As for what forces me to talk about my interests — duh, I copy my Dad. Who always talked his obsessions with my Mom, including gardening, photography, science, science fiction, etc. When you sleep with a woman, it’s very, very hard (at least for me) to self-edit.]

    [Sigh, Vlad you might be right about her. It wasn’t just her pretty face. She could read and write French, German, Spanish, could discuss Nietzche and Mann, was a classically trained violinist and pianist, sang like an Angel, funny as hell, very calm and collected. Catnip for a guy like me.]

    Maurice — MBA was in a Southern University.

    Like


  265. OK Arpagus,
    Let’s begin. I trust you have your copy of The Game at the ready, yes?

    Let’s go back to that list of attributes of the Alpha Male, per Mystery, on page 21:

    Smiling

    Connecting w/people

    Having a sense of humor

    Being well-groomed

    Confidence

    Being seen as the social center of the room

    Now Arpagus…carefully read over this list. Its very, very important. In fact, here’s an assignment for you this weekend-I want you to go out to some of the more popular nitespots in town. You’re not going out to pick anyone up, not even going out to bust it up w/anyone-you’re going out to observe. In this case, you’re going to observe the naturals.

    Take this list w/you and watch the guys in the place who always seem to get the gals-theyre usually smiling; usually connecting with folk; usually good, are well-groomed; usually have mad confidence; and always seem to be the life of the party, or as its said above, being seen as the social center of the room.

    They may not have *all* the traits Arpagus, but if I were a betting Man, I’d lay good odds that they have at least half of em-but you’ll soon see for yourself. And if what I’m saying is true, then hell, there’s really no reason at all why you can get a similar result, right?

    In the meantime, between now and your first “mission” I want you to take an honest-brutally honest-look at yourself, inside and outside. Let’s go back to our list:

    Well Arpagus, how about it-are you confident? Do you exude, confidence? Women are very jittery creatures. They like a confident Man. And if you’re not confident, not sure about yourself, well that makes them not so sure about you, and you lose.

    #2: Do you connect well w/people? Tell the God honest truth. Scenario: you’re invited to a party by a friend. You know the friend of course but you don’t know everyone else. Question: do you wait for them to introduce themselves to you, or do you introduce yourself to them?

    #3: are you well-groomed Arpagus? And by that I don’t necessarily mean decked out in the latest fashions-we’ll get to that. What I mean are the basics-fresch haircut/shave, teeth brushed/mouthwash, good deodorant/aftershave/colonge, fresh, clean and ironed clothes, nice looking shoes. Sure, none of us are on our “A” game 24/7, but you need to be thinking about these things a lot more than you do if you want to start attracting Women, because Women have a different set of senses than we Men do. What do I mean by that?

    Its been my experience, as a Black Man, that the two main things he has to have together is his head and his feet-nice haircut/shave and nice looking shoes. I have seen Women literaly look a Man up & down before considering responding to his approach-hint-if a Woman does indeed look you up & down, chances are you’ve lost. Women are very, very sly about how they do things, Arpagus. She’s already checked you out before you got close. See what I’m saying now?

    #4: how often do you laugh, Arpagus? You don’t strike me as a funny sort. That needs to change if its true. Life is too short, and you’re way too young, to be so damn serious all the time. Come the weekend, you need to be out acting a fool so to speak. Women like Men who can make em laugh-but you gotta be careful about this. Being too goofy can turn a Woman’s sexual attraction for you “off” and put you in the all-dreaded Friend Zone, which is to be avoided at all costs, lol. So, you want to be funny, but you want the Woman to laugh *with* you, not *at* you, you know what I mean? Develop a sense of humor.

    #5: Being seen as the social center of the room-Women are attracted to leaders, or at least Men who appear that way. When you’re able to “hold court” so to speak, Women will tend to pay more attention to you than when you’re just a face in the crowd. Now, there are ways to work this one, I’ve done it, so don’t worry if you have trouble w/this right off the bat. But just keep it mind, especially while on your first mission this weekend. Watch how the guys who do best w/Women tend to kinda “hold court” so to speak.

    #6 And finally, agan, Smiling. Lik humor, you gotta be careful here. Having a silly Kool-Aid smile won’t get it, but you don’t want to go the other way and be “hard” look either. So, I go for ahappy medium-grinning. Its easy, its measured, and you’re at ease. Try it out. A big Chesire Cat grin.

    So, there you are, the 6 traits of the Alpha Male. Its something just about any Man can do, if he simply works at it.

    Holla back

    O

    Like


  266. A.J. Travis

    I see you spent your time trawling through the back isues. I just looked at the front page.

    Don’t you have other things to do? You know, like starting a revolution or something.

    Like


  267. Obsidian —

    I would personally recommend targeting the 8-9 group rather than the 6-7 group. The 6-7 will pretty much bang anything, and tend to focus on just the few Alphas. Meanwhile if you can get DHV, the 8-9 are in your wheelhouse.

    What has worked for me, is not so much approaches in Bars (about zero batting average there), but in a social circle, casual acquaintance, achieve validation, know for about two weeks, validate IOI and ask her out.

    BUT … you have to play the compatibility game. If your strength is say, X Games types sports, ask out the amateur athlete. If it’s music, the budding alt-rocker singer. And so on.

    Cold approach IMHO favors not just the bold but the tall. Us shorter guys need the social validation, and ability to casually charm a girl before making a move. This is why the collapse of a lot of social circles and scenes makes for dating hell for Joe Average.

    Like


  268. Default-

    A real man owns up, when he’s wrong.

    You might want to work on that.

    Like


  269. Whiskey:
    I mean this delicately, and nicely, and as someone who is far far from perfect in this or any other realm.

    I notice you’re stating all these things occur after: sex, increased openness, doing things … Any chance that they occur because of the physical relations? All of the above start happening around the same time, so one seems as likely as the other to be the causation. (Obv. it’s not a next morning thing but more of a ‘huh no progression along awesome’.) I have no advice to offer, or anything, just a thought.

    Like


  270. Whiskey, just in time. Pull up a chair.

    First of all, let’s slow our roll w/Arpagus here. Keep in mind-he ain’t had NOTHING at all, w/all due respect to him. So, him startng out at 6s is just right for him.

    You, on the other hand, are a different story, ain’t ya? You can pull the 8s and 9s; your problem is keepin em.

    Alrite. This is what I would advise:

    Do NOT cook for ANY Woman under ANY circumstance, for at least a year. In fact, and this may get me in trouble w/the ladies, but so be it, its always been my view that all good Women want to serve a good Man-I have never cooked for a Woman in my entire life. They’ve always cooked for me.

    And unlike you Whiskey, I know what its like to maintain a relationship longer than some people have been married. Years. Plural.

    Do NOT “offer” to help fix ANYTHING for a Woman, either. Me, I never do such a thing unless specifically asked to do so. And even then, its per my timetable, not hers.

    My approach to love and relationships is that in order for all to be well in my/your/any Man’s Kingdom, the Man is to have the upperhand. For this is not a Democracy, but kind, loving, benevolent, Dictatorship. It is the natural order of things that a Woman serve a Man, provided he has proven he is worthy of such service.

    Doing the things you’ve done Whiskey has given the signal to the Women, that you aren’t worthy of her! And she/they will reward your signals.

    So, in your case, its a simple matter of taking what I said above, along w/DFH’s excellent earlier comments, apply, then wash, rinse, repeat…and you should be able to get Love longtime.

    Holla back

    O

    Like


  271. A.J. Travis

    LOL

    You really are an insufferable prick.

    Stop taking yourself so seriously (or in honor of the object of your attention SRSLY).

    Like


  272. Damn A.J., that was a megaburn.

    Like


  273. @FP – well, thanks for saying so. if you looked anything like the GMan model photo in your link, i’d say non-touch and non-homo would not apply. but that’s obviously just an eye-candy pic…

    @whiskey- so, probably vandy/owen or emory/goizueta. those are the best two b-schools in the south and you’re too smart to have gone anywhere besides a top/midrange school.

    also, you didn’t comment on my advice – about your alpha self being your better self, not some totally different “mask” you put on. doesn’t that strike you as sound…? what would your alpha self (art, music, culture, tech, sci-fi, whatever) look like? don’t you think geeky sci-fi writers like damon lindelof or ronald moore are considered alpha in their worlds, despite being short and a little introverted?

    Like


  274. Oh, and Whiskey,
    About being short being a disadvantage on the “cold calling” market? Speak for yourself. I know what it is to have Women make passes at me in supermarket parking lots, on regional rail trains, etc, et al. I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating: Master Yoda says, Size Matters Not. And to paraphrase him, for my ally is Game; and a powerful ally it is.

    The vast majority of Men are not and never be over 6 feet tall; as you probably already know, the national average height is 5’10”. Many Men fall under this average height; I’m 5’8″, the tallest I’ve ever been in my life. You’re probably close to my height.

    But it doesn’t matter, Whiskey. The great thing about being a Man is that we have a wider pallet to work with in terms of what can attract a Woman, than the other way around. Height is really a proxy for defence and social dominance; as you’ve said many times yourself, thanks to modern day tech, a lil guy w/a knife can do some serious damage to a guy the size of Sabertooth (the original); and Style’s proven that a shorter Man can be the life of the party. Heck, I’ve done it. Many, many, many times.

    In fact, Whiskey, I say being a shorter Man is a kind of peacocking in itself. Why? Because, to be successful *in spite* being short, is a signal to a Woman that this guy is a force, pardon the pun, to be reckoned with. Roughly a solid third of all Women I’ve ever had in my life were 5’10” and taller; I think the tallest was like, 6’2″?

    So again, Size, matters not.

    Next question?

    O

    Like


  275. @Obsidian:

    What you said about height is very, very true.

    You might find the occasional girl that is SUPER ADAMANT about height. But really, and awesome alpha personality can overcome that. I know plenty of guys around 5’8″ or under that can attract girls. Attractive ones too.

    But I wonder if super short guys won’t do as well. I think of 5’8″ as around average for a guy, but what about 5’2″? He might not be so successful.

    But maybe game will work too. What do you think?

    Like


  276. SWEET! OMG, A.J., I am so flattered that you find me so offensive as to dedicate an entire blog post to me. Seriously, that’s awesome (AWSM!).

    A few things of note:

    1) I’m not in my underwear, I’m wearing a corset-style top and black shorts. And stockings.

    2) “over-educated” – Who doesn’t have an undergrad degree these days?

    3) “who lives 3000 miles away” – I live with my boyfriend.

    4) “She will most likely carry that false belief (that she can attract and hold the top level man) well past her prime marrying years.” – Nice, dude. We’re getting married next summer.

    @ Default

    SRSLY.

    Like


  277. Default-

    Perhaps you should take this shit a little MORE SRSLY.

    Obsidian-

    Your advice is airtight, as usual. But this is my ultimate problem with guys who are not naturally dominant, learning ‘game.’

    ‘Game’ will never solve the problems of submissive/weak men.

    It’s not good enough to put on the mask of a strong man. Men must BE strong, period. Mentally, physically, and emotionally. Every day. All day long. Because even if the world was not in the shit (it is) a society of week, or disinterested men allows idiot women and evil men, to burn it all down.

    Every man should train himself how to lift heavy objects, shoot guns, hunt, fight, argue and win. No matter where he lives, no matter how tall he is, no matter how much money he makes.

    This is the only way a man can save himself, from being shit upon by other men, and the women, in his life.

    It’s also the only way we men can save the world from sliding down the drain.

    Game will get you laid.

    Strength will get you more.

    If a man can’t do these things, then ultimately, his manhood is, just that, a ‘game.’

    Like


  278. P.S. For anyone who wants to read A.J. Travis’s LILGRL<3 (and who cannot sift through the 250+ comments), you can find it here: http://ar2012.blogspot.com/2009/06/lil-lying-grl-srsly.html

    Like


  279. Lilgrl,
    Who doesn’t have undergrad degrees these days? Actually, quite a number of people do. I think at present, perhaps a full third of the adult aged population has undergrad degrees or above? I don’t have an undergrad degree, and I am in no way unique. I think the problem w/people like yourself, is that they tend to move only in circles w/people like themselves, and tend to assume that everyone else is *like* themselves, you know what I mean?

    Just sayin.

    O

    Like


  280. meh.

    you and aj powerflirting

    who cares

    Like


  281. Obsidian,

    It’s so hard for people like that to think any other way. A good number of people going to college to get undergrad degrees probably took AP and IB classes in high school (especially within the past decade). They probably were in classes with ONLY other students going to college. They probably never met a high school dropout. They probably saw college as the only possibility for anyone’s future.

    Fact.

    On the other note, the number of people graduating high school and going to college is increasing.

    I’m not going to assume that everyone is though.

    Like


  282. @ O

    Ah, yeah, I feel ya. My point, anyway, was more, I don’t think an undergrad degree is necessarily worth more than no undergrad degree.

    Like


  283. AJ
    I don’t disagree with what you said. Being more “Manly” is always a good thing, especially these days.

    A little while back the forum discussed this, prompted by my question about Male Rites of Passage, like Hunting. You might want to run a search for those comments, it was a very good discussion.

    And thank you for the very kind words.

    O

    Like


  284. @LILGRL, sister I’m on your side in this but those are shorts the way the briefs we wore in cheerleading and volleyball were shorts. As in, not at all.

    not shorts:
    hej!calisia!!!

    shorts:

    Like


  285. LILGRL –

    Whats your fiance do for work? (dont know if you’ve ever discussed it)

    Like


  286. “I don’t think an undergrad degree is necessarily worth more than no undergrad degree.”

    @LILGIRL –

    Hmm. I suspect that the percentage of women with degrees, especially advanced degrees, who will date men without a degree is small — and I’m not talking about guys like Bill Gates.

    Like


  287. LILLIAR:

    Silly girl. You have revealed yourself for what you are. Anything that you say now, is less credible than your other lies.

    Married next summer.

    Fighting by Christmas.

    Separated by Spring.

    Divorced next summer.

    You want to impress me, invite me to your 25th anniversary. Till then, save your bullshit for your ‘boyfriend.’

    Like


  288. @novaseeker:

    Do you think men with some sort of certification would be more or less on par as a man with a college degree?

    ie a mechanic or a construction worker?

    I’m wondering…

    Like


  289. @ Mr.M

    Teacher by day, superhero by night.

    @ Nova

    Probably true.

    @ A.J. Travis

    No, thanks. No offense, but I don’t think I want you at my 25th anniversary.

    Like


  290. LILGRL –

    Since when do superheros dress in White? Clearly he should be in black rubber or red/blue spandex. Give him that memo ASAP. SRSLY.

    Glad to see you’re so optimistic about the marriage… its so beautiful to see true love! (Only mild sarcasm…i swear!)

    Like


  291. LILIAR-

    Never said I’d go.

    Just said invite me.

    A moot point anyway. I’ve seen so many girls like you fail at marriage, I’ll bet you $1000 you don’t make it 2 years.

    I’ll give the money to charity if I win.

    Put up or shut up.

    Like


  292. “Do you think men with some sort of certification would be more or less on par as a man with a college degree?

    ie a mechanic or a construction worker?

    I’m wondering…”

    @Mandy —

    I guess it depends on the degree that the woman has. What I mean is that a woman with a BA from Stanford is probably unlikely to want to date any man without a degree who does not have other high mate value (rock star, athlete, etc.). A woman with a degree from a lesser school in a practical discipline may date men without degrees — I don’t know, though. Are you familiar with many such relationships? I’m not, but the circles I move in include women mostly with advanced degrees from top 20 schools — these women would never consider a man without a similar quality degree, unless, again, there were other value markers.

    Like


  293. @novaseeker:

    I think you’re right. I know that with the example of my parents, my mother has a professional degree and my dad never finished college, but he’s 15 years older than her, and she’s foreign. He also has a decent job. Those things play a part in “status” and attraction.

    On the other hand, I am going to a top 20 college and my boyfriend isn’t. That doesn’t make him “worth less” than me in terms of dating. Intellectual elitism is bs.

    I think one of the reasons you see people of similar careers or education levels dating is that schooling for some careers takes so long that people end up marrying people they meet in college or through networking. ie doctors marrying doctors. Although I don’t think it holds true in every case.

    You make a good point.

    Like


  294. Lilgrl, Nova, Mandy,
    Hang tight Mandy, I’ll respond to your “height” questions in a bit.

    Actually Mandy, there are more college dropouts, than grads. And that’s all up and down the post-highschool chain.

    The REAL debate that really hasn’t happened, despite being 15 years after its publication, is that the Bell Curve tried to discuss what happens when a Society is bifurcated along IQ lines-a kind of cognitive haves and have nots-and what happens when the two groups move farther and farther apart. What kind of longterm effects can this have-on our economy, national defence, social relations, mate selection? Unfortunately, that debate never took off, due to the stir the book created by an actually small section of the book that took up the question of racial differences wrt IQ, which is the present focus of the HBD crowd today.
    What Charles Murray, one of the authors of the Bell Curve, and Steve Sailer, a kind of leading voice in the HBD movement, are trying to do is to put the spotlight on this “cognitive divide”, w/I’m sad to say, very limited, at best, results. But all of these events of the past decade-Enron, Subprime crisis, the Wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, and more, have a direct bearing on these things.

    Murrary’s chief point is that not only do MOST people do NOT belong in college, but that colleges are making money hand over fist by essentially scaring them into the “Yale or Jail” notion.

    Sailer’s point has been that the Cognitive Elite has been waging a kind of highbrow status war among themselves, while at the same time shitting on their lesser cognitive brethren’s heads, by opting for things such as massive legal and illegal immigration, outsourcing manufacturing, and so on. An outgrowth of this “war” is the virtual Untouchable status we give to those who work in the Blue Collar sector-as I said to Lilgrl above, how many people right here, actually hangs out, w/people like me? I think we all know the answer. To ask the question, is to answer it.

    Yet, the “Creative Class/Cognitive Elite” make all the decisions for errbody, and because they are so fundamentally out of touch w/how “the little people” actually live, they have little understanding, or interest, in seeing that whatever they propose doesn’t hurt their fellow citizens. And that’s not always by accident-as Sailer argues, often its a deliberate, sometimes visceral, hatred of the Working Class that’s at work here.

    Consider the following fact-there are more Jews in the USA, than there are people in the US military-and more often than not, the Cognitive Elite rarely if ever, enlists.

    Assortative Mating virtually ensures that not only will people be pretty much class-stratified in love, but that their kids will be class-stratified, too.

    And as mentioned earlier, the economy is crumbling around us as we speak. Much of the decay has come from the manufacturing and other blue collar sectors, who again have been hit hard by the “attacks” on it by the Cognitive Elite (who also works in the Financial World).

    Only a generation ago, it was possible to come right out of highschool and get a job, and w/on the job training, and a strong work ethic, a guy had a path to a better life. Today, that is no longer possible. And everyone doesn’t have the inclination, or what the heck, talent, to go on to college.

    This is a serious problem that we are not talkin about. We need to address it, soon.

    Or there won’t be much of a country left for either side of the Bell Curve to work with.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  295. Mandy, Nova,
    There’s a very interesting book called Mismatch, by Queens College sociologist Andrew Hacker. In it he makes a very powerful point:

    For Women, having a degree isn’t just a proxy for earning potential: its a *social credential*, a kind of vetting shorthand that the prospective suitor is familar with the more “soft” skills and interests that are more commonly found among the Cognitive/Creative Class. Put this together w/the fact that Women tend to like symmetry (sameness) moreso than do Men, and that Women are attracted to higher status in a Man, and its very easy to see a scenario where not many Women are willing to “marry down”.

    Again, the Black community is a good place to see this in action. At Howard U, one of the flagship historically Black colleges in the country, the Black female to male ratio is something like 10 to 1. And this ratio holds steady throughout the college system, regardless of color.

    I can personally tell all of you, the number of Black Professional Women who are accomplished, polished, even wealthy, and ALONE are quite considerable. Some opt for a short term fling w/a Roughneck Alpha-we pretty much know how that ends. Others attempt to date and/or marry outside of the race, w/mixed, pardon the pun results. And a sizable number of such Women stiffen their upper lips, and resolve not to “settle”, instead opting to face life alone.

    White America is now beginning to see firsthand what Black America always knew-that such a lopsided situation would be disasterous for the building of longterm pairbonding-families. The facts and stats, speak for themselves.

    O

    Like


  296. @ Mr.M

    He took the night off to go to the party with me.

    Don’t worry, unlike everyone on this board…I believe in marriage.

    @ A.J. Travis

    Done.

    Like


  297. on June 23, 2009 at 8:45 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Don’t worry, unlike everyone on this board…I believe in marriage.

    And why wouldn’t you? You’re female. Marriage is a win-win for you based simply on your gender and the laws regarding marriage and divorce.

    It’s only a win-win for him if YOU decide to make it so.

    Like


  298. on June 23, 2009 at 8:47 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea who is the boyfriend that posts lots on this blog that is gonna get married in the us.

    Like


  299. Gunslingergregi queried:

    Yea who is the boyfriend that posts lots on this blog that is gonna get married in the us.

    lilgrl lets him post on roissy

    not read roissy

    Like


  300. The vast majority of Men simply don’t care about the education and credentials a Woman has, again, once a certain floor or baseline intel is in evidence.

    The level of education serves as a proxy for social class and a half-assed proxy for IQ, so if I feel like social climbing and appealing to the elitist side of the parental set, then the girl with the high degree will win.

    Like


  301. @ Dave from Hawaii

    “It’s only a win-win for him if YOU decide to make it so.”

    Doesn’t that kind of automatically make it not win-win…?

    Like


  302. or Women, having a degree isn’t just a proxy for earning potential: its a *social credential*, a kind of vetting shorthand that the prospective suitor is familar with the more “soft” skills and interests that are more commonly found among the Cognitive/Creative Class. Put this together w/the fact that Women tend to like symmetry (sameness) moreso than do Men, and that Women are attracted to higher status in a Man, and its very easy to see a scenario where not many Women are willing to “marry down”.

    @Obsidian —

    Thanks for the reference — haven’t read that one yet, and I’ll have to take a look.

    My own anecdotal experience suggests that what you’ve written there is true. I do think women will “marry down” if there are other factors on the table — such as, she is a SWPL high end professional (think lawyer, banker, etc.) and he is an artist, musician, writer, and so on, maybe without a degree, but with a nice level of social dominance and a ‘career’ that gives the relationship some spice.

    The thing about that, though, is that I go back to an article published in one of the NYC magazines earlier this year (can’t remember if it was New York or The New Yorker, but I think it was the former) which detailed one after another of those kinds of marriages where the wives were leaving their husbands because, after all was said and done, they didn’t think their husbands were pulling their financial weight, and the women really didn’t like being the breadwinner and all that this entails.

    Interesting stuff, really.

    I have had two female colleagues over the years who have married nurturing artistic types who became SAHDs. Both of them are quite ambivalent about it (after a few drinks, hehe), but still with their husbands.

    Like


  303. @ Firepower

    “lilgrl lets him post on roissy

    not read roissy”

    Hehe.

    So…that means my boyfriend would just be posting random comments that have absolutely no connection to the topic at hand — comments which would inevitably make no sense.

    Wait a minute…

    Maybe Firepower is my boyfriend!

    🙂

    Like


  304. *LILGRL enters the room*

    *bows in the presence of greatness*

    You are the female version of mu.

    Like


  305. The level of education serves as a proxy for social class and a half-assed proxy for IQ,

    An attentive once-over plus a ten minute conversation is a much better proxy for social class and IQ.

    Like


  306. on June 23, 2009 at 11:30 pm Virginia Gentleman

    chic noir:

    I forgot to ask: What the devil is ‘mu’?

    Like


  307. @Virginia Gentleman-

    Mu = Obsidian before he changed his “name”. For some reason, I continue to call people by their original names. There are few commenters who changed names but my mind goes back to the original.

    Like


  308. An attentive once-over plus a ten minute conversation is a much better proxy for social class and IQ.

    A college degree is generally a way to weed out certain ranges of IQ. A college degree can weed out those below 90 or so, and masters degree below 105. As I stated, the degree buys some social credibility, and prevents family members from wondering why one chose to marry a “prole” when you’re capable of marrying the career woman.

    Re: Females marrying down…

    My female friends at some point have admitted that they’re willing to marry down, but it seems to be mostly income based. In other words, they’ll marry a teacher or a social worker, but they’d have college degrees. Athena has openly admitted that she wants a man with a college degree, and even blue collar guys with money won’t cut it.

    Like


  309. Obsidian —

    Got it. I am going out this weekend to observe the naturals. Before that I am going to assess myself on the six attributes of the alpha male. And then report back here.

    Like


  310. Great plan, Arpagus! Take the initiative and just do it. Obsidian is a fine teacher.

    Like


  311. whiskey:

    You’re not reading again. Dave had plenty of things that a far more experienced PUA Guru, far more advanced in experience and theory, Neil Strauss, did not. This is why Dave, had time and space to correct from Beta dom and Strauss could not do so, despite being accomplished in picking women up.

    Again, you’re just spinning endless theories from a few data points. You don’t know either Dave or Neil Strauss except from a few written anecdotes, and you’re obsessively twisting these stories until they fit your preconceived notions. Before making conclusions, you should make more observations about the real world without frantically explaining away everything that contradicts your simplistic axioms by denial and special pleading. You accept Dave’s story because it can be somehow distorted to fit your model, but when I or anyone else points out counterexamples, you call bullshit. You’re just deluding yourself that way.

    My problem is not approach, sex, or any of that. It’s keeping the girl AROUND afterwards, where I always screw up and I see a massive hole in Game. I don’t see anything developed about how to stay in a relationship, and keep up attraction. I obviously killed attraction. By demonstrating/revealing nerdiness. Girl repellent.

    And you’re never going to solve that problem until you cool down and start analyzing the situation objectively. Right now, you’re just obsessively screaming out half-baked desperate and defeatist conclusions, which admittedly have some basis in reality, but they’re hopelessly exaggerated and caricatured. Instead of trying to figure out your concrete mistakes that effectively repelled these girls, or maybe asking yourself if you’re perhaps going for the wrong kind of girls, you make ridiculous sweeping statements that are supposed to make your capitulation look respectable. Hence the parallel with David Alexander.

    Also, are you aware how profoundly unmanly such screaming is? You mention your father. Do you ever see him exhibiting such hysterical attitude? Are you sure that you really “copy your dad” after all? PA has written some very good comments about this topic — a lot of this game stuff is nothing but learning attitudes that men used to take for granted before the modern emasculation of society and culture.

    I have seen so many guys FAIL, and epic fail, approaching women in Starbucks offering to help with their computers it’s ridiculous.

    Again, you’re being willfully blockheaded. Read again what’s been written about this topic, especially what Dave wrote in one of the above posts. The key words: quiet competence. Not pathetic geeky showing off. If you can’t fathom that difference, you’ve really got a lot to learn yet.

    [Sigh, Vlad you might be right about her. It wasn’t just her pretty face. She could read and write French, German, Spanish, could discuss Nietzche and Mann, was a classically trained violinist and pianist, sang like an Angel, funny as hell, very calm and collected. Catnip for a guy like me.]

    Yes, Whiskey, I know how it is. Such cases almost make me want to cry; it’s like a seeing a magnificent horse with a broken leg. It’s an ugly truth, but that’s just the way it is. Messing with alpha cads and being burned will take an irreversible toll on any girl and turn her into a sad, useless, destroyed creature, no matter how much her looks and class are still shining. She’ll become as capable of love as an old slag, as Houellebecq put it. If it’s any consolation, I think you’re probably lucky that it ended up quickly. With such girls, the likely outcome of a long relationship is nothing but ugly drama and bitter disappointment.

    Like


  312. David Alexander:

    A college degree is generally a way to weed out certain ranges of IQ.

    It’s not so much about intelligence, which is easy to estimate in many other ways, even excluding direct tests that are illegal under the disparate impact doctrine. My impression is that the basic things that a college degree is supposed to signal are literacy, conscientiousness, and the ability to abide by stringent PC codes. The latter is an often overlooked factor, but it’s in fact immensely important — even the best employee can still do more harm than good by saying or doing something that results in a discrimination or hostile environment lawsuit. This is one of the main reasons why universities compete in taking political correctness to extremes — it adds real value to their degrees.

    Of course, there are also a few university programs, primarily in engineering, that actually teach real professional skills as their primary purpose.

    Like


  313. Arpagus,
    Good for you, man. The biggest difference between guys who get laid and those who don’t, in the end, is that the former group has more get up and go than the latter. As Mystery says so very well, it is very easy for a guy to take himself out of the hunt-all he has to do is sitdown. Women, on the other hand, ARE CONSTANTLY BEING HIT ON. Its like what Chris Rock said, how are you (would you like some dick?); can I open that door for you (and how about some dick?), you know what I mean? You really do need to watch Chris Rock, he is funny as hell, and you should check out his hit tv show Everybody Hates Chris, too. For those who think Black guys are born Supermen on the chickfront, that show will show you the real deal. Brothas struggle with it too, but its just that often, the “game” as it were, is played “above the rim” because of all the HBD stuff. Think about it, and you’ll see what I mean.

    Anyway, a big part of Game is being a keen observer of people…all kinds of people. If you want to be successful, the quickest route to get there aint reinventing the wheel; its simply a matter of learning from those who’ve been there, while at the same time avoiding repeating the same mistakes those who have failed did. Some advocate putting guys right out there in bootcamps and the like, I disagree. Most Men are NOT aware of themselves nor of others around them, and here is another reason why most tend to fail a lot w/Women, because nature has deemed them to more attuned to social environments than guys, all things being equal, more often than not.

    So I’m a big advocate of guys, just starting out, go and “case the joint”. Meaning, get the lay of the land. What do Women actually do when in bars, clubs, lounges, other social gatherings; what do guys do? How are they arranged-are nice looking Women often standing alone, are within a group of people? What about guys? Where do they stand/sit in the venue-is it near the door, or further to the back? Where does the center of attraction, locationwise, seem to be? Good hunters not only know their prey, but they also know the habitat in which their prey lives.

    Anyway, good luck! And looking forward to hearing back from ya this Sunday.

    O

    Like


  314. Dave Alex, once again you’ve actually proven my point without apparently even knowing it.

    Think about it-what gets your motor running-the chick who’s Summa Cum Laude from Brown, or that pornstar looking broad w/the great nailjob and killer “fuck me” heels? And do you really care what the latter chick’s IQ or curricula vitae is? Hmm? Tell the truth and shame the devil.

    Now, what you said about social climbing and more importantly, what your folks will think, yup, that’s a major concern for anyone looking to ascend into the vaunted middle and upper classes. Here’s the trick though-it only really matters, if said peeps are really in a position to really make a difference in your life moving forward. In other words, do you have someone in your immediate family who can move a boulder or two outta the way for you to get that cushy job, or that slot in next fall’s college class? If the answer to these and related questions is “no”, then there’s no real, cost/benefit reason for you to give a shit what they think of who you spend your time and dime on.
    Im just sayin.

    You see Dave, very often, people who have the concerns you noted above, usually do so for good reason-the peeps in their fam can actually make things happen for them. Again, if you have such peeps in your fam, then you owe it to yourself to play the game because there’s a good chance you’ll win. If, on the other hand you don’t, then it really becomes one of those as per usual moot faux-academic debating points you have a penchant for injecting into an otherwise hard hitting discussion we tend to have.

    From all that I’ve gathered of your immediate fam, while they certainly love you, they aint able to put you in a position to launch into the cherished classes you so admire on their own accord. While you may lament that though, I actually see I strength in that-because it opens the path to be a Self-Made Man.

    That’s how I see myself, because like you, in fact moreso in my case, my parents, while good people, and they did love me, weren’t able to help me move up the ladder in life. And like you, I lamented, and even hated, this for some time. But life has shown me that sometimes a liability on its face can actually be a strength, if a person chooses to see it that way. My life is today, what I have made it to be, and while I am grateful to my peeps for helping me when I was a child, my successes in life was by my own agency. So, this is why I couldn’t care less what anyone thinks of who I screw or what I like in a Woman; simply put, they don’t pay my rent, helped me get a job, or see me when I’m sick. If they did it would be different. But they don’t, so it don’t matter really, what they think.

    That’s how I see things, Dave. The question of course, is how do you see them.

    O

    Like


  315. Mandy,
    Yesterday you asked me some questions wrt shorter guys and Game, natural or acquired. Sorry for the delays.
    I believe Prince, the singer, is considerably short for a Man-I think he officially lists at 5’4″. Do you think he has any trouble getting Women? Tom Cruise, another longtime heart throb, officially lists at 5’7″. *shrugs*

    But of course, these are very famous people. What about the average guy, though?

    One of my best friends is shorter than me. We go back some two decades. He’s I guess about 5’6″, at best? NEVER had a problem pulling chicks. He’s been married more than a decade to a gal of another race (he’s Black, she’s Puerto Rican) who’s about my height or so. Oh, and he got hit on relentlessly by Women of all heights after he got married. Wearing a wedding band literally transformed him into a Booty Magnet.

    I maintain that Size matters not. Its really all about whether a guy is comfortable in his skin, Women look out for stuff like that. Keep in mind, there’s a lot of tall uncoordinated galutes out there, too, LOL! Which is worse, when you think about it?

    O

    Like


  316. @LILGRL – congrats on the engagement! a happier ending to an already happy story. to a superhero, no less. you will need to have the icing on your wedding cake be in the form of hex codes, in homage to your moment of falling in love … 😉

    @all re “marrying down”, bell curve, etc. obs again makes great points. the cognitive/ruling class takes care of itself, mainly at the expense of the working class. there’s a lot to that. i never read the bell curve, though i mainly know what it’s about – maybe i’ll take a look at it.

    Like


  317. “Yes, Whiskey, I know how it is. Such cases almost make me want to cry; it’s like a seeing a magnificent horse with a broken leg. It’s an ugly truth, but that’s just the way it is. Messing with alpha cads and being burned will take an irreversible toll on any girl and turn her into a sad, useless, destroyed creature, no matter how much her looks and class are still shining. She’ll become as capable of love as an old slag, as Houellebecq put it. If it’s any consolation, I think you’re probably lucky that it ended up quickly. With such girls, the likely outcome of a long relationship is nothing but ugly drama and bitter disappointment.”

    Indeed, Vladimir.

    To me, one of the key attitudes is to remember that, regardless of how you perceive it, you have options. It’s what we talk about when we mention things like one-itis. Yes, that girl *could* have been a great girl, but she actually isn’t one. And in any case, there are millions of girls out there. You do have a lot of options, whether you realize it or not. Realizing that you do is a core part of inner Game, I think.

    Like


  318. on June 24, 2009 at 10:12 am Gunslingergregi

    Billions Nova billions is the key to remember.

    Like


  319. on June 24, 2009 at 10:15 am Gunslingergregi

    So basically if one out of 10,000 is gonna be a keeper that is only 100,000 keepers in a billion. So basically yea I have my work cut out for me to get 7 or so.

    Like


  320. Hi Maurice,
    Thanks, man. And like Chic, I too had assumed you were a Brotha, in part because of the name and the way you “presented” yourself, lol. Guess that’s what happens to us all when we assume, eh?

    The Bell Curve is I think I greatly misunderstood work that repays close study and consideration. I don’t necessarily agree w/all of its premises, or conclusions, but the basic point is I think legit-look, the simple reality is errbody can’t have leading man looks. Errbody aint gonna be in the NFL or NBA. Errbody can’t have Susan Boyle like singing talent. We all recognize this, so why should be so hard to see that errbody ain’t gonna be the next Einstein?

    My personal sense of it is because IQ is so valued that it is in essence, a value judgment on the inherent worth of a person, right or wrong. And that rings many bells in many people’s heads, all accross the spectrum.

    Its something that we really need to take a hard look at because the stakes are so high-as we are seeing right now.

    O

    Like


  321. obsidian

    I am in the financial sector and I say to you. The cognitive elite will break. Part of it is tax-paying, part of it is tax-consuming.

    the alliance between the tax-consuming cognitive elite and NAM makes me afraid like hell. Afraid of massive tax rises to pay for both of their privileges

    Like


  322. “My personal sense of it is because IQ is so valued that it is in essence, a value judgment on the inherent worth of a person, right or wrong. And that rings many bells in many people’s heads, all accross the spectrum.”

    @Obsidian —

    This is, in my view, the issue as well.

    People are comfortable with the idea that there is a gradation of attractiveness, for example. It’s not fair, but it’s life and it’s also very obvious.

    People are much less comfortable that there is a gradation of IQ, precisely because IQ is valued higher, and is correlated (wrongly, in many cases) with success. And so there is a sense that if we admit that not everyone has the same IQ abilities, we are “condemning” certain people to a “capped” level of “success”. Of course, looks also “caps” people to a certain level of dating/mating “success”, but in that area we tell people to lower their sights, be realistic, and so on. We’re really not comfortable at all telling people the same thing when it comes to IQ.

    Like


  323. LILGRL giggled:

    @ Firepower

    Hehe.

    So…that means my boyfriend would just be posting random comments that have absolutely no connection to the topic at hand — comments which would inevitably make no sense.*

    Wait a minute…

    Maybe Firepower is my boyfriend!

    🙂

    well, you would be the Luckiest Girl In The World – for about 2 whole weeks. Then, I’d dump you for mysterious reasons.

    *my girlfriend is hot so she does dumb stuff. Still, I find ways to forgive her. Don’t be so demanding.

    Like


  324. on June 24, 2009 at 10:56 am Gunslingergregi

    Got to be firepower then congrats!

    Like


  325. yeah, the jig is up; you can tell by our witty banter. Whenever she makes with her weird humor – out comes the roleplay to keep things fresh.

    she’s always up for a game of Ho Chi Minh Trail, while I prefer “John McCain Interrogation”

    she’s my little

    Hanoi Hilton

    Like


  326. Think about it-what gets your motor running-the chick who’s Summa Cum Laude from Brown, or that pornstar looking broad w/the great nailjob and killer “fuck me” heels? And do you really care what the latter chick’s IQ or curricula vitae is?

    The latter is more likely to induce my sex drive, but if I have kids, the former definitely comes across as better genetic breeding stock if one wants to improve their child’s odds in the IQ lottery. As you stated before, you view your sex partners as potential mothers of your children, and I take the same view, which leads me to very picky about what women to have sex with in the first place.

    Like


  327. David Alexander mewled:

    The latter is more likely to induce my sex drive, but if I have kids

    the only way
    you’ll have kids is if
    you abduct
    them

    don’t step on my posts

    Like


  328. Dave Alex,
    All Praises be! So you do listen afterall. Perhaps there’s some hope for you yet.

    Yes what you said about my view wrt potential Women in my life is quite true, and trust me Dave, it is quite possible indeed to have the best of both worlds. The truth is that some of thee freakiest Women out there sexually, have IQs above 100. You take it from me. I have marked this!

    And besides, its always better to corrupt a “good” girl; all Women long for this.

    More later.

    The Grand Courrptor
    Obsidian

    Like


  329. @Obsidian:

    But 5’6″ isn’t all that short, considering that the average female is around 5’4″. I even know guys under 5’8″ that can get girls like crazy. Of course, most of them are really good at sports, which compensates for a lot.

    I’m talking about guys (other than Prince) that are around the average female height, or even shorter than that.

    Like


  330. Obsidian

    The truth is that some of thee freakiest Women out there sexually, have IQs above 100. You take it from me. I have marked this!

    wow – and you tapped both of them behind my back?

    them cheatin’ bitchez

    Like


  331. Firepower, you’re funny.

    Mandy(?), yeah, I hear what you’re saying. Actually the average American Woman’s height is about 5’6″. As for really short guys, below the American female average doing well, I can’t recall any personal examples, but I’ve observed guys that size who’ve done well and seem to be well adjusted. There’s something to be said for the scrappy Napoleonic complex.

    O

    Like


  332. thanks bro

    hey, isn’t the average height for asian girls like 4’2″

    it gives hope to those short guys.

    my little brother is 13 – he wants one to practice on before he graduates to the Real Thing

    Like


  333. on June 24, 2009 at 12:38 pm Gunslingergregi

    My wife 5′ 7″ or so he he he

    Like


  334. We’re really not comfortable at all telling people the same thing when it comes to IQ.

    I’ve argued that the real barrier to HBD acceptance is the fact that it crushes the entire notion of the American dream, and it implies to the average white American than their kid has no chance of getting into an elite school or barely graduating college.

    If we tell fives to date other fives, they’ll eventually find love. If we tell the low IQ that they’re low IQ, they’ll be poor, miserable, and jealous of the rich high IQ types.

    The truth is that some of thee freakiest Women out there sexually, have IQs above 100. You take it from me. I have marked this!

    As I stated on numerous occasions, the problem isn’t that the girls are incapable of high sexual output, especially as indicated by anecdotal reports from alphas, but that these girls visually do not induce the sexual desire. The girls with the nails and heels cry sex, while the other girls just say “hug me” or “let’s talk”. In other words, Wellesley Queen acting sexually would not have turned me on, and she’d probably run away crying after I laugh at her. One could argue that it’s the visualized version of the Madonna-Whore complex.

    Like


  335. Indeed it is, Dave Alex. Indeed it is.

    The question is: what are you gonna do about it?

    If the answer is “nothing” or some facisimle thereof, you will indeed be miserable for the rest of your life, no matter how much you rhetorically clap your hands around your ears and “scream” otherwise.

    Moreover, you have to decide which is more important-leaving behind a (hopefully) good genetic legacy, or getting your freak on, assuming of course, you’re able to pull yourself away from the pc screen to do so in the first place?

    All of us have to make decisions in life, and often they come with tradeoffs. It is the hallmark of Manhood to understand this and deal with life on its own terms.

    O

    Like


  336. On the cooking thing.

    Do what you feel. If you don’t want to feel used, have them come over with the ingredients and wine. Be specific in your instructions.

    Like


  337. Moreover, you have to decide which is more important-leaving behind a (hopefully) good genetic legacy, or getting your freak on, assuming of course, you’re able to pull yourself away from the pc screen to do so in the first place?

    Since it’s unlikely that I’ll get the high IQ queen to increase my children’s odds of the IQ lottery, then the best course of action is get me freak on in a safe responsible matter. Of course, even that is unlikely thanks to a health supply of cheap pornography that ensures that’ll orgasm whenever I want instead of whenever she wants with little effort on my part.

    Like


  338. on June 24, 2009 at 10:12 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Hey O,

    How many times ya gonna keep trying to lead the horse to water, and try to force him to drink, before you finally give up?

    Like


  339. Wait, DavidAlexander, are you saying that you’re choosing your hand over choosing a relationship with people? o.0

    Like


  340. Wait, DavidAlexander, are you saying that you’re choosing your hand over choosing a relationship with people?

    Yes. I don’t have to leave my bedroom or interact with people to get my orgasm.

    Like


  341. …..

    So you’re antisocial?

    Like


  342. So you’re antisocial?

    Anti-social (in an an avoidant, not spiteful way), weird, and lazy. Makes for a bad combination.

    Like


  343. Dave From Hawaii,
    LOL. My dearly departed grandmother use to say, that a drop of water will wear a hole through a rock.

    Dave Alex,
    Of course, your choices are your own, and I have no problem at all with that-but-let’s be clear. They are your choices. No one else’s.

    So there’s really no need for you to continue on w/the kinds of posts you’ve registered previously, right? I mean, at the end of the day, you’ve chosen a particular course of action, and according to you, you’re happy about it. Make your aunt and adopt stiff upper lip and get on w/living out the rest of your life w/o prattling on about stuff no one wants to hear about anyway, hmm?

    😉

    O

    Like


  344. I’ve argued that the real barrier to HBD acceptance is the fact that it crushes the entire notion of the American dream, and it implies to the average white American than their kid has no chance of getting into an elite school or barely graduating college.

    The average American, of any sort, needs to be told the truth, which is that you do not need to go to an elite school to be happy and successful in life. The idea that unless one attends an elite college and then obtains an office job specializing in symbol manipulation, then one can only lead a sad, unfulfilled, and worthless life is utterly pernicious.

    In other words, recast the “American dream” and this problem goes away!

    Like


  345. Tarl:

    The average American, of any sort, needs to be told the truth, which is that you do not need to go to an elite school to be happy and successful in life. The idea that unless one attends an elite college and then obtains an office job specializing in symbol manipulation, then one can only lead a sad, unfulfilled, and worthless life is utterly pernicious.

    Trouble is, this idea is becoming more and more true. The vast majority of jobs today fall in two categories: (1) those that involve advanced symbol manipulation and/or ordering people around, and (2) being some sort of servant for people working in jobs of type 1. Jobs outside of these categories are few in number and disappearing, and the remaining ones are getting worse in terms of respectability and compensation, along with those in category 2.

    Obsidian is right that the most important point made by Murray et al. is that the left side of the bell curve is completely screwed in such a situation. Yet, while it’s undeniable that the academic racket with its political privileges is making the situation worse, it’s not the ultimate cause of the problem. Even if other, much better mechanisms for certifying knowledge, intelligence, and personality traits desired by employers were available, it still wouldn’t address the root causes of the situation.

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  346. Vladimir,
    In your view, what *is* the root cause, and what do you propose be done about it?

    O

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  347. The definition of the “American Dream” is not specified in the US Constitution or anywhere else. So it can have various meanings.
    In my humble opinion, it comes down to this: The Laws are not meant to block a persons fulfillment of their dreams because of who their parents are.
    I really like the fact that our President came from the opposite of a privileged background even if I think he is wrong about everything he thinks or says.
    The necessary compliment of upward mobility is downward mobility. Therefore, it is fine with me if the spoiled, indolent children of the rich end up waiting tables and sweeping the floor. That process, imho, is at least half of the American Dream in practice.

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  348. Obsidian:

    In your view, what *is* the root cause, and what do you propose be done about it?

    For start, the decline of manufacturing has eliminated many decent blue collar jobs. By this I don’t mean only wages, but the overall level of respectability. Even if they pay the same money, low-skill service jobs are viewed as less dignified than those in manufacturing; after all, they mostly boil down to being someone’s servant one way or another. Furthermore, mass immigration has made low-skilled jobs not only worse paid, but also associated with immigrants from poor countries, further lowering their status in the eyes of everyone — including those who would rather die than admit that they’re susceptible to such thinking. All this has led to a great widening of the class divide in prestige, where low-skilled workers in general are looked upon with ever increasing contempt by the white collar population. I think there is also a significant cultural shift independent of the economic trends operating here — as a consequence of the general adolescentification of culture, jobs are now supposed to be hip and cool and “making a difference” and whatnot.

    Another important factor, of course, is the general increase in complexity of the remaining respectable occupations due to technological developments. The left side of the bell curve in intelligence and other important traits is getting shut out of respectable occupations and their options are increasingly reduced to the above mentioned crappy jobs with humiliatingly low prestige.

    The academic establishment has managed to place itself in the role of an increasingly absolute arbitrator of who gets to join the respectable classes. But the existence of this harsh divide is not due to them, and in their absence, something else would take their place, without the divide going away.

    I myself don’t have any solutions to propose; certainly none that would be viable in the current political climate. But for start, a realistic diagnosis of what’s going on is hard enough by itself.

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  349. http://ca.tech.yahoo.com/blogs/the_gadget_hound/rss/article/3675

    With this new application, some won’t need to pick up girls anymore. DA this is for you. 🙂

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  350. Blimey! What a popular thread. Amazing what happens when you combine the delights of the iPhone with pickup 🙂

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  351. Reading this article I just realize I’ve made an iPhone app that is perfect for this.

    It calculates how attractive a face is and gives a score from 1-10, here’s the video: http://www.tavshande.com/vanity

    and here is a link to the App in the app store.
    http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=318044093&mt=8

    Enjoy it, and have fun with it out there.

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  352. […] 20 tags: being dorks, the boyfriend by LILGRL Because my boyfriend is so fucking alpha (like Pete Wentz) he can walk around the East Palo Alto IKEA with me, wearing a wife-beater and holding a […]

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