Thought Experiment

There is a subgenre of anti-game, putatively trad-con haters who like to assert that having kids is the defining feature, and motivating impulse, of the alpha male. But try this thought experiment.

Imagine you have two choices to pass on your genes and create a lasting legacy. One involves repeated visits to a respected sperm bank to masturbate into a cup. The other involves repeated copulations with your wife and second wife (for the sake of simplicity) that result in both women getting knocked up multiple times over the course of many years. In the latter instance, you voluntarily have no further contact with your kids once they are born.

The two choices are guaranteed to fill the gene pool with five cherubic apples of your eye.

The choice which leaves you more satisfied, more personally fulfilled and brimming with positive feelings of high self-worth, is

a. creating a legacy through a sperm bank, or

b. creating a legacy through sex with your wives?

Remember, hypothetically both choices result in the same number and same quality of offspring issuing from your seeding shaft. If the old skoolers who claim that children are the crux and the crucible of alpha maleness are right, either choice should result in very strong feelings of self-regard and confidence, two undeniably intrinsic traits of the alpha male with which no one but a deranged feminist (but I repeat myself) would object.

And yet, I predict there are very few men who would consider choice (a) as ego-affirming and confidence-inspiring as choice (b). In fact, I bet a lot of donating men leave sperm banks feeling oddly morose.

The reason for my prediction is that the anti-game trad-cons are incorrect in their assessment of what constitutes alpha maleness. It is not the children or the genetic legacy per se that swells men’s souls with alpha sweetness; it is the sex with feminine, willing women which does the trick.

The sex is the prime directive and the origin source of alpha male nourishment. Sex is the trick that evolution concocted to make sure we don’t let ourselves die out. Not kids. Not lovingly-swapped soiled diapers. Not videotape of bursting birth canals shared with creeped-out relatives. The sex is first and foremost, it is primal, it is the cosmic chorus. And it is only relatively recently by evolutionary standards that this ancient sleight of reproductive selection is finally meeting its match in the plunderdome of non-procreative recreation, the prime directive thwarted by an ocean of condoms, IUDs, Norplants, and Pills.

This is why a man who fucks his way through hundreds of maximally fertile women but leaves no legacy thanks to the convenience of modern prophylactic tech is leagues more alpha male than the man who fills his 35-year-old wife’s womb with babymeat, and is certainly more alpha male than the man who sires a whole Duggars’ worth of kids at the local sperm depository.


A clarifying example is needed to focus minds. Picture a fat, acne-ridden, manboobed, greasy, bald, boring, stupid, charmless underprole man who manages to capture the elephantine devotion of a morbidly obese underprole woman. They marry, and, owing to their religious beliefs (or stupidity) neither one uses birth control. Over time, she grunts out twenty of his fat babies (yeah, I know, hard to believe, but this hypothetical is not so far removed from our current idiocratic reality). This man has certainly made his mark on the world. His tribe is impressive, larger than the families built by some sultans and certainly larger than that of most accomplished Western men. He presides with haughty patriarchal pride over a brood that would be the envy of any trad-con harboring dreams of winning fertility wars with the third world. He belches insouciantly at your child-free hedonistic existence, knowing that the future belongs to his progeny. He has ensured his legacy. His waddling kids adore him and respect his ability to unearth cheesy poofs in the folds of mommy’s fupa.

And, yet, would any of you anti-game trad-cons call this man an alpha male? With a straight face? Drop him in the middle of a nightclub, or heck, even in a Whole Foods aisle full of slightly old-country looking SWPL chicks, and the girls would run away, repulsed by the sight of him. He wouldn’t be able to get laid at a lesbian porn star convention full of scheming, mustachioed feminists itching to cry “regret rape!” for street cred. Such a specimen of malehood can only settle for the lowest females of the low. The very bottomed out dregs of vaginadom. He is the patriarch trad-cons extol as exemplary of the powerful alpha male who leads his posterity to the promised land, and yet he would be kryptonite to any feminine woman worth having. Were it not for the grotesqueries among womankind willing to wallow in the sty with him for a chance at producing more pighumans in God’s image, he would struggle to get action beyond the feeble offerings on tap from the friction of his overhanging stomach slapping against his foul pud.

There’s your alpha male, trad-cons. Choke on him. And then think twice about drawing parallels between fecundity and real, true, authentic alpha maleness. You know, the kind of alpha maleness so eloquently and succinctly described right here in these blog pages.

tl;dr  It’s not difficult convincing a C.H.U.D. with a vagina to pop out a fetid stream of your sewer spawn. What’s difficult is winning the love of a hot babe(s) who is a valuable commodity in the sexual market. Any kid-popping is just icing on the cake after you’ve accomplished that.


  1. Agreed. It’s not about knowing that babies are out there.


    • I would say the quality of son you produce is the defining characteristic of Alphaness. It’s not just about sex it’s about a genetic struggle. The lower quality female produces the lower quality son and so on. So yes reproducing with one 8 at age 18 is better than banging 10 10’s if you don’t impregnate them. In that sense our grandfathers were superior men to most of us.


      • Something to consider though: statistically, some of the most very “Type-A” men tend to produce female children in an overwhelming majority. I’m speaking of military special forces… which is, thankfully, the closest the female-dominated government will ever come to being able to easily identify and track alpha men.

        It makes a certain kind of sense too that alphas would have more daughters than sons, given that eventually sons would likely become competition.


      • It is the sperm that decides the sex of the baby. But there are a couple of other interesting facts along these lines Men coming home after fighting a difficult war have more sons than you would expect – perhaps this is nature figuring lots of men just died in the war, so better restock the cupboards. Another oddity, men who have their first children at a relatively youngish age tend to have more daughters, while men who have their first kids later have more sons.

        What’s up with that? One theory is that rich boys settle down and get married later, having the resources to live an adventerous life as a dashing young bachelor, while poor boys need to get cracking on the farm chores and get married off quick. And since in most societies a married couple’s social status is based on the groom’s lineage, an aristocrat’s best bet for continuing the family fortune is an heir – a son, while a poor man’s best bet at seeing his family climb the ladder is to have a fetching daugher who catches the eye of somebody on the next run up.

        Of course, the little aristocrats have been banging girls for a long time, probably since before their farmer cohorts. But maybe the body knows the difference between a pump-n-dump and a wife? .


      • Hey Jack, thats interesting.

        Have you heard the one about the sex of the child being determined by whether the wife thinks she’s more attractive than the husband?

        It goes like this:

        A girl child means the wife thinks she is more attractive than her husband.

        A boy child means the wife thinks the husband is more attractive than herself.



      • Hadn’t heard that one, but it fits with the younger dads have more daughters bit . Younger dad = not yet at his SMV peak = wife likely to think she’s hotter.


      • @jironghrad, @Jack Amok

        I find your post really interesting. I read something like that, except it was the opposite. I read that (from a reputable site; sorry cant remember the name), that alphas tend to have sons, while betas tend to have daughters. This is as a beta probably cant set his son up to succeed in a hypergamy market, and therefore having a female would give the lineage a higher chance at continuing, as it easier for the average girl to get laid than the average man.

        Alphas would tend to have sons, as we all know how the pareto principle applies in hypergamy, and therefore, an alphas son could have access to many women, as opposed to a beta, who has to settle for a girl who fucked the entire wrestling team at age 15.

        I believe I came across while reading about some Algerian prince who fathered 600 children or so, many of them men, with the ‘serf’ equivalents mostly producing daughters.

        And honestly, I feel that my experiences hold that theory true, as I often see many poorer men with multiple children producing daughters abundently, while more ‘alpha’ men with better careers, etc. producing sons, as the hypergamy and harems were built for the.

        I apologize if I am repeating what Jack Amock already posted, just trying to humbly add perspective on it.

        On the matter of Spec Ops producing more sons than daughters than kids, IDK if that rings true, as I know that these guys tend to produce after many years in their deadly, yet extremely noble craft. Therefore the rate of death rises, and unfortunately these valient soldiers don’t make enough to leave their children much behind. Therefore it would make genetic sense that they leave daughters. I read a lot on this things, and right now and training my arse of to serve as a SEAL. Also I read alot of great blogs authored by these awesome men, and thought I would share, as I feel you may appreciate them. (blog written by an started by former SEAL Brandon Webb, author of book) (forums for all SOCOM forces, with Mods and contributors of retired SOCOM) ( same, but focused on Army Special Forces/’Green Berets’) (self expl.) (self expl,)

        anyway, sorry if my post was really long, just trying to add to this thought discussion,

        Thanks for listening.


      • I also think that when it comes to the psychic payout of reproduction, it’s not just children that the selfish genes care about, but grandchildren. Doesn’t do your genetic line any good to have 5 kids who all fail to reproduce. That’s where an Alpha- a socially dominant Alpha – can employ a K strategy very effectively. If you are a rich, powerful bigshot in your community, and you raise a son in your house with your name and access to your wealth and influence, he’s going to have a much better chance of giving you genetically superior grandkids than 5 seeds sewn on the winds will.

        And something we should all remember is that every single one of us – including the lowliest, most wretched omega, is the product of a very, very long line of successful reproducers. Every single male ancestor we have succeeded in fertilizing at least one female of the species.


  2. Why must you make these posts demonstrating that people who are clearly idiots are idiots?


  3. on December 18, 2012 at 3:54 pm patriarchy shall redeem us beauty blossoms under true patriarchs. What a lovely country would Estonia be if patriarchs made sure it would be populated by many such beings.


    • +googol

      After watching this, my inspiration takes flight.

      In honor of the Christmas season, the next sonuvabitch who says to my face “Who cares if white people disappear from the earth?”* is gonna have to extricate my size 12 boot from his ass… and if said SOB is white himself, he’s gettin’ both boots.

      * we’ve all heard this from the usual suspect lib and coloured dweebs… but I’ve actually heard it said by patriotards on firearms forums, no less.


      • So… if you’re worried about it…have some kids.


      • Right.

        All these wankers concerned about “the white race” disappearing need to impregnate a bunch of Aryan women or else STFU because they’re mentally masturbating.


      • You haven’t been paying attention, have you?


      • Touché


      • You’re another one who lacks reading comprehension… how many times over the past few months have I mentioned my four children?


      • Assumes you’ve been interesting enough for us to bother reading for four months, but the point of principle remains the same. In your case it’d be “persuade some of those childless whities to go spawn.”


      • When I get a snarky reply to my posts, then yes, I assume there’s been interest in what I’ve said.

        Weak-sister attempt at a second snark to save face, Beevis.

        Have some background information next time before you go shooting off your mouth about how others should have children.


      • You really expect somebody commenting on the internet to know what you’ve written as comments to somebody else’s blog over the course several months? REALLY? So I should expect *you* to be totally in-tune with all my comments if you reply to something I’ve said? Footnotes and all that?

        Dude. Decaf.


      • All I expect is for you to shut your yap and don’t address my posts unless you know what you’re talking about.


      • Stop taxing us to pay for non-white children of hypergamous sluts that we didn’t father and we’d be happy to oblige.


      • Hey buddy, if you think little old libertarian me in Texas is taxing you, then you’re hallucinating. Save the omega bitterness for somebody who cares.

        Adapt to your environment, or go extinct. That’s the way it works. If the current environment suck so bad that it’s a “SWPL extinction event,” that’s a SWPL problem.


      • Wow, quite the feminist you are: pull out “the you can’t get laid card”. Maybe you can accuse me of having a small penis next.


      • You have a small penis.


      • More seriously and less troll-y, because you’re right. I was referring to “omega” in a social sense and didn’t make that clear. Bad commo on my part. Point-blank, bitterness and “I can’t do X because of ‘society’ [taxing you]” is a pretty girly way to think, and isn’t the mark of somebody successfully navigating his social environment. If you’re being taxed too much to have kids, and you want kids…move to someplace with low taxes. All my economic-refugee neighbors from the coasts demonstrate that it can certainly be done.


      • Doing so results in playing in the enemy’s frame. A highly feminine suggestion you’ve done here, well done miss happycrow.


      • I think the phrase you’re looking for is “beta schmuck happycrow.”

        I think that’s a ymmv thing. *I* pushed my wife to had children she *didn’t* want, because *I* did. Now she thanks for having done so (profusely). So whose frame is that?


      • The problem at hand is mass immigration. You give away borders control, you give away your country’s freedom and future. Your wife isn’t your enemy, don’t be silly.


      • I’d love to have open borders — Switzerland-style.
        Prove you can speak the language, you understand the culture and political system, and you have your shit wired tight. Pass that bar, you’re in.

        Too many unskilled proles — bad thing.


      • Greg, consider this my early Christmas present to you that Im keeping my mouth shut.

        You’re welcome.


      • Thank the Lord!


      • Indian gives in 3… 2… 1….


      • And may all your Christmases be whiiiiiiite 😉


      • Thwack, old friend… if you truly want to give me an Xmas present…



    • On a side note, what wouldn’t I give to have the haberdashery concession at that gathering. 🙂


    • And you wonder why muds and mongrels call for our destruction either through miscegenation, displacement, or outright murder? Look at those girls. If you had to visualize what angelic beings descended from heaven would look like, sort of a ‘missing link’ between mankind and the creator, do you imagine they may look like the girls in that crowd? Or would they look more like this?

      If I had skin the color of shit, and hair on my head like most humans have around their asshole, I would spend ALL of my time trying to interbreed with deified beings. It took about 100 years to pull it off, but it has been pulled off. So the brainwashing is basically complete. Now if only the suicidal ‘Gabriels, Michaels, and Raphaels” would hoist their flaming swords and smite ruin upon the lower creatures of earth, we would be fucking straight. What will it take?


      • Jay in DC
        And you wonder why muds and mongrels call for our destruction either through miscegenation, displacement, or outright murder?

        The supreme irony is that the white man will destroy himself without nonwhites lifting a finger. A fitting end for such a sick twisted being. The white man is like the rabies virus; his sickness makes him angry and his anger makes him attack others which allows him to spread his sickness until all is made in his rancid image of death and misery.


      • If, and only if, what? Greg Eliots send you back to Africa with a hug and boat ticket right? Me, I’m more a Gabriel with a flaming sword, verify this here; 90% of White Males (like moi) wish for this in a world that has been ever increasingly seen them marginalized recently. Me nigger? I’m a different type and the one that you rightfully fear the most. You aren’t hard, you are an intellect, and I respect that actually amongst of a race of genomic cretins. But! That being said, don’t count on Greg to save you. Because, unlike him, that values an entertainment monkey, for the sake of, I’ll open your neck in short order… sorry.


      • I thought you were supposed to shut the fuck up for Christmas?


      • I’m dreaming of a white Christmas.


      • The supreme irony is that the white manmale SWPL will destroy himself without nonwhites lifting a finger. A fitting end for such a sick twisted being. The white manmale SWPL is like the rabies virus; his sickness makes him angry and his anger makes him attack others which allows him to spread his sickness until all is made in his rancid image of death and misery.



      • As predicted, it didn’t take long for the Indian giver to arise… but in thwack’s defense, Jay in DC does push buttons needlessly.


      • To put it in Estonian: laku persed.


      • Because having skin the color of pus, rot, and a variety of parasitic fungi is soooo much better, right?

        Nobody wants you dead until you (or people who claim to be representing you) attack them. When you keep yelling that you’re someone’s enemy, they tend to believe you.


      • and of course you picked the in heartiste words farthest outlier tribe to categorize the entire planet of black people. You my dear, are very smart!

        Don’t bother responding to me with potentially calling me one of those “white liberal females” whatevs, the internet thuggism (funny a black word) emanating from your post is blatant. But whatever makes you sleep at nice sweetie.

        @ Nicole, umm same thing goes for you in relationship to your grouping all white people, why even bother reponding to stupidity with more stupidity. That’s why I like/love/admire the Ya’reallys of this blog. Some people must have really sad Lanza-esque lifes. Carry on *sips coffee spiked with baileys*


      • true. can’t understand why black girls don’t go for white guys more, if only as sperm donors. it’d look like win/win to me to bear half white brighter spawn.


    • Mis maa see on? Muidugi, see on Eestimaa. Meile meeldib laulama.

      Just Google the term “Laulupidu.” Our food sucks, but we’re masters of choral kickassery.


    • That video reminds me of something which I tend to forget from time to time, as I’m sure many people do:

      White people are the most beautiful people on Earth.

      [Heartiste: k-selection = beauty.]


      • …White people are the most beautiful people on Earth.

        that is why everyone else hates us


      • “White people are the most beautiful people on Earth.”

        well if you hafta run around telling everyone something, it can only mean one thing…?


      • Your kind should know:


      • Thank you for making my point Greg. But I must correct your assumption. The song is NOT called “Im proud to be black”. The message, “Im black, AND Im proud” is direct challenge to the white supremacy system and by logical progression, the white man himself by telling the black man his existence IS his validation.

        No need to wait for white people to validate you as worthy of respect, justice, love… (like niggers are taught)

        Im black,


        Im proud.

        Now indeed, it does raise the question: Proud of what? Because if you are proud to be black, you did not make yourself black so you can’t take credit for being black.

        Same thing with being white and male; you played no part in either of those outcomes.

        This is why racists come across as such pussies; they take credit for things of value they had nothing to do with; Especially that whole “well my anscestors…”

        So you are left with the question, “what should you be proud of?”

        This answer is first and foremost, SOMETHING YOU DID; you gotta start there.

        2nd, (and this is just my own personal opinion so don’t get all butt hurt)

        it should be something that helps and or improves another person in a manner that results in you coming under attack for doing so.

        Thats the “proof”.

        Its a rare but not unique phenomenon.

        Heartiste is an example.

        Thats why you keep coming here.


      • Thwack said,

        …This is why racists come across as such pussies; they take credit for things of value they had nothing to do with; Especially that whole “well my anscestors…”

        Following your own logic,

        We whites had nothing to do with slavery, it was our ancestors – not us – who did that, so no one should blame us for it.

        …So you are left with the question, “what should you be proud of?”

        This answer is first and foremost, SOMETHING YOU DID; you gotta start there.

        Well I did not do SLAVERY so I do not feel guilty about it

        thanks Thwack for helping us whites show everyone we have no reason to feel bad about what our ancestors did to your ancestors!


      • C’mon, thwack… no negro babble now… you know full-well that song and the whole “Black Is Beautiful!” memes that began in the ’60’s is merely focusing on negritude in its physicality.

        Your continued finger-pointing jibe at whites showing pride “merely because they’re white” has three of your own fingers pointing back at your tribe.


  4. on December 18, 2012 at 3:55 pm jonathanjones02

    You may be correct, but anyone who advocates such a worldview should grapple with a comprehensive formidable opposing view (in this case, John Paul II Theology of the Body). The idea of the body and human life as the Greek concept of Logos is powerful, and as right or wrong as it may be those looking for evolutionary and philosophical underpinnings to life should check it out alongside more nihilistic ones


    • I think CH is an atheist. If so, he *might* feel that any philosophies or worldviews built on myths such as the existence of a god or gods cannot have much to offer to the modern rationally-oriented mind. At some point the chain of purely rational or scientific reasoning will break down, where the only support given for some important premise or conclusion will be ‘because God x ‘ (at least, I suspect this would be the case, but not knowing any religious philosophy, I could be wrong).

      Speaking for myself: I’m sure that experts in Catholic or other religious philosophy will disagree that their god-based reasoning is without value even to atheists; but we atheists generally do not feel it is worthwhile spending the very large amounts of time necessary to try to genuinely understand such things to see if they do have value. There is simply not enough time in life; it’s difficult enough to try to educate onself in secular philosophy, which of course is much more important to atheists.

      I admit I am completely ignorant of genuine Christian philosophy (Aquinas and all the rest); but I would have to be given a good reason to spend precious time studying it instead of studying anything else. If anyone can provide me with good reasons, I’m listening.

      (Actually one good reason is purely for historical and cultural interest. But I would like to hear a compelling reason that the study of religious philosophy could actually benefit me in ways that the rest of Western philosophy cannot.)

      Hmmm — I feel I have been unfairly filtered out and deleted in the past by CH — but this time I wouldn’t blame them for scrubbing this comment because it may lead to long and boring disquisitions by religious fanatics!


  5. Dude, the trad con assertion is asinine, but are you really comparing cads to prolific sperm donors? The better comparison, which you alluded to, is Jim Bob Duggar himself. He’s no alpha, but he isn’t spanking it into a cup either.

    The traditionalists prefer the biological definition of alpha and Duggar is winning genetically.

    [Heartiste: Under the biological definition preferred by traditionalists, the alpha male cads would win the procreative sweepstakes, because in a state of nature their sperm would not be blocked by condoms or pills.]

    I have kids and can tell you there is something extra primal about sex when you know you’re going for procreation and not subverting it. And it is pleasing to see little people who look like you and share personality traits with you toddling about.

    [That extra primal feeling is mostly the result of going raw dog on a woman.]


    • True, but the trads are bending the definition to present times because they think patriarchy requires alpha men. It’s a semantic game.

      Raw dog no pills, no pulling out is different. The lizard brain smells success and gets stoked.


      • The doctor is correct.
        Having sex with the possibility of conception adds a whole different level of energy.


      • Agreement. What I’m about to say next will forever brand me as fairly sick. I had to straighten out nigger thwack a ways back about my true self. This next thing will just re-confirm what I posited earlier. It won’t make me friends with King A, for certain, though I respect his command of language and reasoning about bringing society back to an even keel. All that disclaimer bullshit out of the way, here is the straight dope.

        I have fucked 5 women, ever, that I knew were not taking any method of birth control. Two of those, early in life, when I was simply too fucking stupid to understand the power of young motile sperm. Three of them MUCH later in life once I developed a far darker side of my personality. Out of those five, who knowingly, by the way, let me (low alpha) do what I did to them which was accept me doing my best to fuck a baby into their womb. Let’s then call this what? “Neolithic Game?”

        I succeeded twice, yet, I bear no bastards. But I can tell, particularly on the latter three, I had orgasms that no other nut I’ve ever poured out of myself can be measured by. R E P T I L E brain, indeed. What happens to the kid afterwards? I have no concern about that, just like any Komodo Dragon, et al. dumping his jizz often violently into a female. And the God’s honest truth, I’m not up nights that those little tadpoles (have you ever seen early stage fetuses? They are fucking repulsive) were wholly dismantled by a high powered vacuum cleaner for cunts. shrug

        Again, my borderline sociopathic personality has generally served me well. The balance is the key I’ve found out. Don’t go Ted Bundy, but instead, push out just enough aura of “Ted” that you have an element of danger that is, quite frankly, irresistible especially to the extremes of the spectrum of women. Middle of the road women, most in DC, find me repugnant. Some indoctrinated Americunt finds nothing desirable in the likes of me.

        Naive women who maybe landed here from flyover states are sometimes fearful of me, hence, they want me to fuck a baby into them (see above). Conversely, psychopathic nutty bitches, who as many of you know tend to be really- (props: Barney Stinson) fucking hot need a man that will simply dominate them wholly. Verbally, emotionally, physically. I made an art of this in my late 20s but grew bored with the “maintenance” required for HB8/9s. Walking into bars with Paris Hilton knockoffs (literally 5’10″+) is a fucking drag and will get you in too many fights to be worth it, especially when she is crazy enough to WANT the fight. Her pussy is just as pink on the inside as some busted 6.5 with 20% of the required effort.

        True Stories.


      • Jay in DC
        Again, my borderline sociopathic personality has generally served me well. The balance is the key I’ve found out. Don’t go Ted Bundy, but instead, push out just enough aura of “Ted” that you have an element of danger that is, quite frankly, irresistible especially to the extremes of the spectrum of women.

        You are like the “gateway fuck” for white girls who really want to fuck niggers. You may get them “hooked”, but eventually they need something stronger, scarier, blacker…

        Thanks for breakin em in Casper.


      • YES!! Again, it isn’t that I dislike you in any way, but I simply will bleed you out when I need to, from the neck. Greg E and I are quite different in this way, but I accept your assessment. Beckies (fly over cunt) and Whitneys (city hot cunt) require what I said above, danger. Dangerous white men (RARE, even in metro areas, excepting myself), or quite frankly, your average nig-nog can provide this. This is the price we pay in the 21st century for angelic cunt. Tell me mudformed golem thwack, do you NOT view those Estonians as Angels? I trust you enough, strangely, to tell the truth, and in that way, I’d even allow your particular DNA to perhaps score a Becky. If I’m wrong just say it— Jay, you cock-sucker, you raaaaaaycist… you…. damn I really want to fuck your women. You get it, right?


      • Tell me mudformed golem thwack, do you NOT view those Estonians as Angels? I trust you enough, strangely, to tell the truth, and in that way, I’d even allow your particular DNA to perhaps score a Becky.

        Jay, I don’t know what you were taught or where/how you learned it, but when black guys see an attractive white girl, we arn’t thinking about flying away with her on a space ship to start a master race in some far off galaxy… When Im fucking a white girl, Im not thinking about white guys and how Im “sticking it to the man…”

        Where do you get this stuff?

        Its a peice of ass… its some pussy… You sound like something out of the mind of Quetin Tarrantino?

        First of all, I would never condem a nonwhite baby to be raised by a white female for the same reason I would never marry one.

        Why marry a guard when you are already in prison? I can think of no worse situation than to be stuck with a white person you can never get away from until the day one of you die.

        Jay, I think your problem is you project your attraction for pale skin onto dark skinned people. Let me be diplomatic and tell you, its not as attractive to us as it is for you.

        Do I need to clarify that?

        Look man, its the holiday season and Im trying to avoid being blacker and uglier than I already am; but I can do it if you need a dose of the beast in order to act right?

        Look man, I catch what I know how to hunt; but if “Bambi” walks up and acts like she wants to be eaten; well, Ima eat that.

        Tha fuck you think Im gonna do?

        BTW, what country you from?



      • When Im fucking a white girl, Im not thinking about white guys and how Im “sticking it to the man…”

        Where do you get this stuff?

        From your favorite band and the chief inspiration of your fantasies, Afroman.


      • The most dangerous European men I know are not racist. They view anyone who is in their way as the enemy, regardless of their color. They view racism as a mental defect and sign of weakness, and one even commented that it is just natural selection when your own women turn on you. They’re conscious of ethnicity, but not dependent on it for their sense of self worth.

        This is because most truly strong people simply don’t live with the kind of stress that weaker people do.

        I’m not male, so I can’t really explain the dude side of that, but as a female I see clear differences between my and other non feminist “tough cookies'” worldview, and that of weaker women. Weaker women are usually more feminist because they feel more threatened by men. It’s not always about physical weakness since even the strong among us are generally weaker than most men. It’s a kind of relative thing but it strongly affects one’s day to day life and how they relate to others and others to them.

        I just don’t live in as much fear despite having actually been in fist fights with men. I view those incidents as exceptional and odd experiences because I have had so many male role models and friends who are wonderful people, including those who taught me to fight and survive. I owe some men a great debt of gratitude for my survival, plus this gave me ample opportunity to prove that I could survive bad things. It makes me feel good inside and confident and want to be more friendly and engaging. I meet a dude, and I give him more benefit of the doubt as far as being a good person than I do most women I encounter. I’m comfortable in my world, and the few times I’ve had bouts of insecurity, it’s usually a man who helps me to snap out of it.

        Weak women on the other hand, do not feel as safe in their world, and this determines who they view as their enemy. What’s funny is that many of them feel men are the enemy even though no man has ever really harmed them. It’s the fear of harm that works on their minds and turns them into hostile bitches. The only way I have ever managed to cure anyone of this is through making them stronger. More strength resulted in more comfort in their world and less hatred of men.

        I am not certain, but I suspect that it would work similarly for men with regards to race. When you become a formidable foe, you see those who are not as less of a threat and less your enemy.


      • “What I’m about to say next will forever brand me as fairly sick.”

        So you basically created a couple of human beings just so you can have a mind-blowing orgasm and later vacuumed them out form their mothers’ cunt pussies?

        I can understand getting an abortion when an accident occurs, but to get her pregnant deliberately for the thrill and then abort because you don’t want kids is so cold hearted. It’s so wasteful.

        Surely, you’re not running out of thrills? Are you?


      • Mmmm… cunt pussies …

        A pouch within a pouch, the holey of holeies. SAY MORE about these nested vaginae.


      • I thought that was a cute little new meme-worthy phrase myself…

        But I haven’t exhausted CASH ME, MUTHAFUCKA! yet.


      • If women kill your offspring you are not alpha. A woman would do anything to have an alpha’s baby.

        “I can understand getting an abortion when an accident occurs”

        You’re cold hearted too, Nitelily. Aborting Aryan children is never ok. Aborting your own children is genetic suicide.


      • Abortion is not for me, but I don’t want to tell other people what to do. Forcing people is cold-hearted and creates rebellion. People should be educated on making compassionate, good, proper choices, BUT BEING GOOD IS ULTIMATELY A CHOICE. Otherwise, you can’t be rewarded for it by the almighty. I rather educator people on the ills of abortion than legislate it, and let everyone make their choice. You see, that’s what liberals don’t understand. They think the State can make you do the right thing, or stop you from doing the wrong thing. I’m for free choice and let the chips fall where they may. However, it doesn’t preclude us from teaching the right thing to do, and shaming people for doing the wrong thing. The liberals took away the shame aspect and the morality teaching, that’s why we have so many abortions and other ills that plague our society.

        Besides, abortion is better than letting the streets raise your kids, which is what’s happening in a city near you. That’s why we have a nation of degenerates, criminals, and delinquents. And it’s not always the children of colored people, as was demonstrated by what occurred last Friday in CT.

        Regarding the activity of Jay in DC, that was uncalled for. Creating a life just so you can sniff it out after you had your fun is bordering on sadistic and cannibalistic. A true uncalled-for waste.


      • I’ve never heard anything so creepy and sick as having a fetish for killing your own offspring. It is not only suicidal but also, in my opinion, marks someone as worthy of being locked away.


      • Infanticide is not for me, but I don’t want to tell other people what to do.

        The relativism at the heart of your faith, NiteLilyofTheValley, makes you a dopey, unreliable conservative and cryptolibertardian. Go to Childermas on December 28 and contemplate one-hundred and sixty-five Sandy Hooks every day for forty years. Still worse: it is an evil protected in law, encouraged by culture, secured by the sleaziest sloth, and perpetrated by the very women who not only formed their victims but are primally and primarily charged with their protection. A mother dismembering, decapitating, liquefying, and siphoning out the bloody pulverization of her own issue — so she can more conveniently get her fuck on.

        I’d rather educate people on the ills of mowing down 3300 elementary students a day rather than legislate against it, and let everyone make their choice.

        Yes, the preservation of our will is a gift from God Almighty, a share in his divine life. Yes, that requires the possibility of choosing evil. But it also requires your intercession to prevent the evil in your midst, at the expense of your own life if necessary. And what in this universe could be more wicked than a mother snuffing out her own child “when an ‘accident’ occurs”? The systemic massacre of six million Jews? In the time you’ve been alive, there have been seven or eight holocausts, five-sixths of WWII’s entire death toll, silently perpetrated because of your casual indifference and political equivocation. Because you “can understand” it.

        White Woman correctly captures the abject horror of murdering your own progeny. You simply haven’t contemplated it deeply enough. Your citation of liberty in this case is an insult to liberty, and your literal cut-the-baby-in-half reasoning is sloppy and unbecoming any creature with the potential for motherhood.



      • i’m for making abortion only a hair less than mandatory in some situations. such as when the father can’t/won’t marry/support her.

        god knows we have enough ‘wards of the state’, and mostly low quality ones at that.


      • How could you even compare the murders in Sandy Hook with women aborting their children? Are you for real? It’s a travesty what you are saying.

        The best thing against abortion is teaching abstinence, in other words morality. But you see, there are some people who will never be moral and don’t have the same morality as we do. We can’t force them. It will be like religious persecution and we don’t do religious prosecution in this country. We should have a standard that people should live up to, but we can’t force people. The best way against abortion is education of morality and doing good.

        Now, if you insist on making abortion illegal then you have to make homosexuality illegal. Then I’ll support it. Otherwise, you can’t have double standards. If you want to clean up shop, let’s do it across the board. We need to have consistency. No picking and choosing according to your white supremacy beliefs.

        I wonder, do you and White Woman feel the same way about black babies? Or is it only evil when you abort white babies?


      • Ummmm…. wow. Just wow. Are you, like, for real? For REAL for real? Incredulity is not an argument. Though it seems like a sturdy placeholder in your mush-pot of a mind.

        I am comparing abortion to Sandy Hook, yes. And abortion is worse. The child is more innocent and the murderer is the one upon whom the child depends and who is most intimately entrusted with his safety, nourishment, and thriving. Annihilated not in a fit of unmedicated insanity but by deliberate calculation and malice aforethought, so that the murderess would not be inconvenienced by the consequences of her sexual slovenliness.

        What do you feel makes Sandy Hook more heinous than dismembering an infant, the flesh of your flesh and blood of your blood, and casting his viscera into an incinerator like trash? Because the fourth-grader could lisp at you cutely? Because he is less dependent on the tender mercies of those who are supposed to love and protect him?

        Nonsensical woman. Only the female mind could be ideologically bullied into discounting as irrelevant the most fundamental distinguishing characteristic of her sex: to co-create, incubate, produce, and nurture human life.



      • “I am comparing abortion to Sandy Hook, yes. And abortion is worse. The child is more innocent and the murderer is the one upon whom the child depends and who is most intimately entrusted with his safety, nourishment, and thriving.”

        Please, let’s put this into the right context, instead of you freaking out as if we’re taking about real children here. We’re talking about cells. There is nothing wrong with a woman taking the morning-after pill before the fertilized egg could even divide. A fertilized egg is not equal to a 6/7-year old child. So no, Sandy hook is not equivalent to abortion.

        “What do you feel makes Sandy Hook more heinous than dismembering an infant,”

        It’s not an infant yet. Please stop trying to make it sound worse than it is. It makes you look dishonest, and I know you are not, so what gives here? Maybe you are too emotional about abortion, but Sandy Hook had me shedding tears all week long, yet I don’t shed tears for aborted cells. If the abortion is carried out within the first few weeks of a pregnancy, it’s not a human being yet. It’s still cells. This is especially so with the morning-after pill, which I think is a great invention.

        Some people have no business having sex, let alone reproducing. They end up having the streets raise their kids, and their kids end up being burdens on society or violent criminals. Think about it this way, if we could go back in time and abort Adam Lanza 20 years ago, would you have done it? I rather have aborted him as cells, than thrown such spawn on society who grows up to kill all those innocent people.

        Furthermore, the blood of aborted cells is on their slutty parents’ hands, not ours. Let God deal with them, not us. It’s his job to be the judge, the jury, the executioner. It’s wrong to act like God and do his job. In this respect I now agree with you, since you told me how I shouldn’t do the job of men.

        Therefore, all we can do is teach morality and goodness and hope more people listen to us and learn from us about doing the right thing, and it’s not just about not tolerating abortion, it’s also about obeisance and not having kids out of wedlock. That’s where it all begins. Out-of-marriage sex is the source of abortion. It’s an irony we even say this here.


      • I will end as I began, NiteLily.

        Let God deal with them, not us. It’s his job to be the judge, the jury, the executioner.

        The relativism at the heart of your faith makes you a dopey, unreliable conservative and cryptolibertardian.


    • I’m not so sure that the Jim Bob Duggar is comparison is as apt as the sperm bank donor. One of the reasons that the Alpha in a state of nature seeks as many partners as he does is that it provides his gene pool with a greater level of biological diversity. A mammal that simply primes one womb time after time after time is not truly Alpha because a) it is only demonstrating domain over one female of the species and b) it’s gene pool will forever be carriers of whatever traits the female that is bred with carries. That is why heartiste is specific in making the comparison between a donor and a man with his wives (plural). Biodiversity is a positive aspect and likely one of the reasons primates have such long pregnancy periods (thereby encouraging the Alpha to spread the seed across a greater population while the first is carrying).


      • Sperm donation strikes me as omega — a man who can’t even get one womb to fill. And Duggar’s kids will multiply with new genetic sources and spread the genes far. But we’re also getting into a level of pedantry that rivals the trad cons when it comes to quibbling over definitions.


    • “Jim Bob Duggar himself. He’s no alpha”

      An important quibble here: he is an alpha. Game-wise I mean. He’s no Ned Flanders. I watched a few episodes when I still owned a television, in particular an episode where they go to London. A hot female tourguide was showing them around and he was running natural alpha game on her. She was aflush in giggles in his presence for the entire episode.

      Other random women in other episodes react strongly to him as well; this includes showbiz pros who are used to the company of celebrities.

      [Heartiste: Interesting. I may have to violate my rule of not watching reality TV to catch an episode of the Duggars.]


    • The best thing to do is have many children with a woman. You can still have flings on the side if you enjoy sexual variety. The only reason the white race is going extinct is because white people don’t have children.


      • …and one of the reasons White people aren’t having children is the fact that (many) White women don’t want to have children with White men.
        And the ones who do are hideous.
        Thanks, pop culture.


    • “[That extra primal feeling is mostly the result of going raw dog on a woman.]”

      Or maybe it’s the result of L O V E?

      [Heartiste: Love feels great too.]

      I guess it feels a bit different when you sleep with a girl you love and who loves you back…

      [Sex without love feels awesome. Sex with love feels even better.]

      Sadly, you had never experienced the love of a self-respecting feminine woman

      [I have, and I do. But you may persist in your guessing game if it helps you rail against the enveloping shadows of your loveless life.]

      (because, by definition, a feminine woman would never sleep with you

      [Is this definition pulled from the OED, or from your My Little Feminist guidebooks?]

      – or anyone who does not believe in love) so you don’t know how it feels and it would be better for you just to shut up about things you know nothing of …

      [You sound distressed. Did you finally give up your virginity to a man you thought would still be there in the morning?]


  6. since the manosphere is coming to the realization that bastard spawn of single mothers become bad people, wouldn’t your hypothetical kids be better off being born to you and your second wife (whoever you end up spending the most time being married to and able to discipline your brats).

    [Heartiste: Yes. But alpha maleness does not necessarily mean admirable maleness.]


    • But alpha maleness does not necessarily mean admirable maleness.

      Yes it does. Always. The terms define each other. Admiration is what gets the alpha recognized as alpha, which creates the basis for his power, which confirms his status. The synonym obtains even when it is secret admiration, as it must be in this era of feminist ascendance.

      You just have a problem grappling with what’s “admirable.” So you vacillate between advocating the right thing (shaming sluts) and succumbing to the “fun” thing (fucking them). This is the human condition.

      Now add a third variable: the feminist ethos has defined what is admirable. That is the ethos into which you were born and the ethos against which you admirably wage war. But feminism is the lie that inverts the meaning of admirable (alpha/manly) and solicitous (beta/feminine) in order to equalize ugly females. You picked that inversion to define “admirable” and must then conclude it to be qualitatively different from “alpha maleness.”

      Luckily we still have a good internal gauge to detect virtue, despite a century of ideology’s attempted subversion. People naturally look up to neither the weak-chinned beta nor the drifter date-rapist. Creating a ghettoful of “bastard spawn of single mothers” isn’t admirable under any standard besides your (mood-based) urge to get your dick wet. It’s called the black American culture, and that makes you a sophisticated wigger.

      You select the feminist’s rejection of the cad because that’s the judgment you know how to neutralize. The grrrls’ irrational rationale is based in anti-masculinity. But there are other critiques you deliberately avoid — because you occasionally share their rationale. No, they’re not as simple as, whoever produces the most sprogs wins. Rather they acknowledge the insuperable difference between men and women, which you promote, but then do not conclude with you that sexual anarchy, nihilism, and degenerate Epicureanism must result.

      You have never made the necessary connection between manliness and libertinism, nor can you. If you could, you’d spend your time articulating it rather than simply assuming and asserting it. You joust with easily-dismissed chumps conjured just to knock down.



      • This, the above, gives me a fucking boner. It the mythos of almost all civilizations. The classic tale of good vs. evil wielded by powerful men, that command language beyond most mortals, respect, and power, that comes with such superiority. Six movies were based on this myth, one of which was fucking awful beyond measure, but at the end Anakin and Obi-Wan who loved one another in a strange way, had to draw their battle lines. Good vs. Evil. Right vs. Wrong. The modern “Republic” (read; Empire) vs. the old “Jedi code”. Nerdy? Yes, salient and proved throughout time? Undoubtedly.

        Sadly, as I have said here before, I took the easy route. I embrace the poison of the dark side. In this uber-fucking nerd reference, I see myself as sort of a Boba-Fett. I’m a mercenary for the winning team. I could just as easily embrace goodness and the light if it became dominant again, but when I see a King A I can only think of Mace Windu (turned nigger for the times) and his talk with a Senator…

        Isn’t it curious though then, that EVERY civilization in history for the last I dunno, 10,000 years has a Heartiste and King A? They do, if you read between the lines, and particularly look at their deities and creation myths. I truly think, there is something to that…. but that’s just me.


      • At the risk of being labeled a pedant, I’d substitute “virtuous” for “admirable” in Heartiste’s quip.

        Alphas are, by definition, admired. Not all of them are virtuous — hello, Dark Triad — but all of them are admired, even if only by women.

        alphas : admired men :: rectangles : parallelograms

        If you’re going to split alphas into categories, start with “virtuous” and “not virtuous.”


      • Split the hairs further. Men can motivate others through admiration as well as fear. Alphas can lead men with either. But which is the superior mode?

        Machiavelli says it’s better for the prince to be feared than loved. “I come to [this] conclusion [because] a wise prince should establish himself on that which is in his own control and not in that of others.” And yet, he also says “a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred.” In the absence of admiration, he has no bulwark against fear degenerating into hatred.

        I’d claim admiration is better generally and in the abstract whereas fear is more useful in particular circumstances and for specific motivations. Whichever is superior per se, a combination of right admiration (virtue) and controlled fear (“instilling dread”) is superior to either one in isolation. CH, in his gospel of the dark triad, insists the two qualities cancel out each other — illustrative of “men without chests … [who] laugh at honour” and mock virtue. We are therefore forced to conclude it’s better to establish dread than inspire admiration.

        But being dreadful is more direct and therefore an easier method to execute than the slow, difficult, and elite course to becoming virtuous (and thereby “admirable”). The very barrier to entry should clue us in on which is superior and ultimately more effective. Any shitbag who reads a psychology book can push a person’s buttons and create anxiety. But who can become admirable to the point of passively creating attraction? Exceeding few. Though all should aspire to it. Which is ironic in the CH’s case, as his artistic virtues make him one of those exceeding few.



      • Jedi or Sith.


  7. I am not anti game but the articles here that talk about children show a lot of ignorance andare clearly written by someone that doesn’t have children. You have not experienced real love until you experience the love you have for your children, In fact i would go as far to say that it is the only genuine love that exists.

    [Heartiste: Love for one’s children is not a defining feature of alpha maleness. It is a defining feature of most men, whatever status strata they occupy.]

    Now would guess there are a lot of people that read that and think its condescending bullshit, I used to be one of them until i actualy had a son myself, but its the truth and its a shame that people don’t acually realise it until they have children.

    Out of all the bullshit of feminism and feminist driven socialism the greatest crime against everyone IMO has been the destruction of the family and the bond between fathers and their children.



    • “I am not anti game but the articles here that talk about children show a lot of ignorance and are clearly written by someone that doesn’t have children. You have not experienced real love until you experience the love you have for your children, In fact i would go as far to say that it is the only genuine love that exists.”

      Didn’t you notice, at CH they like to shame men who have kids, yet they complain about the white race dying. So what’s their solution, go to the sperm bank and make a deposit. Then watch said deposit grow into a small nation. Wow! Great solution to make sure the white race is not going to fall to extinction. Or, if the sperm bank sounds too lowly just bed lots of females forever. BUT, make sure you vacuum her cunt pussy when you’re done because you don’t want no bastard spawn (to quote someone). So fathering kids is just in their mind. Just the idea they can do the deed is sufficient for most.


      • Cunt Pussy. So nice they named it twice. Just like my Dick Cock.

        Or is the thrill of expressing the c-word causing you to spill out a double vulgarity? Or is it simply a Tourette thing?


      • Yeah, your dick cock. You’re cock is a dick. Her pussy is a cunt. I’ll admit it’s a thrill. But I’ll admit “your” unhinged pussy insults had me spilling my coffee.

        I want to drive the ugliness home. The pussy of a ho is the most disgusting thing.

        [LOL! Tourette. You always change my mood in a positive direction when I read you]


      • I am imagining you a junior high girl who just learned how to swear.

        ZOMG, she’s such a goshdangit cuntpussy jerkhead!!!!


      • Close, but not close enough.

        I don’t swear. It’s so unfeminine. But sometimes, I like to say it here because it drives the point home or it amuses me.


      • It amused us as well.


      • Didn’t you notice, at CH they like to shame men who have kids, yet they complain about the white race dying.

        Wrong. I’ve done neither.

        So what’s their solution, go to the sperm bank and make a deposit.

        Good lord, is that what you really think? I’ve said it before: sperm banks should be all shut down forever.

        [Heartiste: Sperm banks are actually a very interesting real world experiment in “managed evolution” aka eugenics (or dysgenics). But I believe use of them is too low to have much of an impact on the wider society.]


      • Didn’t I comment to you that ITAWY regarding the sperm banks? I thought I did, ‘cause I agree with you completely. Those single mothers are raising defective kids. Single mother lesbians shouldn’t be allowed to get pregnant. Do you know some of them carry kids for their homosexual male friends? Now, I am getting disgusted. I better quit.


      • I agree corvinus. They are degenerates all. Natural children only, none of this IVF bulls*** for degenerates unable to breed.


      • Please stop. Some couples can’t get pregnant , which is very painful when people really want kids.

        A little bit of compassion will go a long way for you.

        I don’t see a problem with a man impregnating his wife with HIS sperm if she can’t conceive in bed. It’s the single mothers and the strange sperm introduced within a couple (whether through adultery or artificial insemination) I object to. The rest is good.


      • I don’t see a problem with a man impregnating his wife with HIS sperm if she can’t conceive in bed.

        The problem with that is that usually several embryos are made, and only one or a few implanted, leaving the others to chill on ice indefinitely.

        No, I don’t like IVF. Besides, whatever genes responsible for blocked fallopian tubes or whatever other problem is making her infertile should be weeded out anyway.


      • Life is about the what’s best for the tribe, not people’s feelings.


      • @corvinus,

        I don’t agree at all, and sometimes, it’s not a gene.

        And I don’t have a problem with extra embryos. Sometimes, the couple uses them for subsequent kids too.

        Anyway, embryos are not a human yet. On the other hand, the problem with abortion is that by the time a woman discovers she is pregnant, It’s way into a pregnancy, which means she is aborting a human being. I think by 41 days it’s a fully-fledged human. That’s why the so-called “morning after pill” is a good invention, if one is playing with fire. It beats aborting. But again, I wouldn’t play with that either just for the sake of my kicks.

        @White Woman

        And how is having kids with your husband through alternate methods not good for the tribe?


  8. The better scenario would be a combination of the two.

    Any way, I would submit that the “alpha maleness” carries on past the copulation and birth, and into raising the kids.

    [Heartiste: That’s not alpha maleness, that’s “admirable maleness”.]

    Any deadbeat can reproduce with multiple women.

    [Rage-filled incels would disagree with that.]

    How many men can truly step up in the role of provider? How many can teach their boys to be men?

    Latest Post: Have an Plan, Have an Aim

    [Don’t confuse alpha maleness with what is good in the world. The two are not necessarily the same.]


  9. Well this is truly Thought provoking not only Alpha male loves to conquer new ground, they are bound by their imperative thinking to copulate with many females in their life as possible and by females i mean feminine, naturally good looking, soft, sensitive, totally submissive (In bed that is), universally beautiful (Although worldly beautiful will also work).

    Alphaness is measured through the character traits of a powerful Man (Powerful meaning who is confidence, resilient, know’s his game, Can charm the following females, when stands infront of a crowd will make the party all about himself) and it is not about passing genes but children are sometimes inevitable.

    So i say trad-con have no idea what an Alpha male is, for them he is a fellow that works 9 to 12 and has a fat bitch wife and 2 kids (Sounds nice 🙂 )


  10. Sex = kids to biology.


  11. on December 18, 2012 at 4:13 pm Lucky White Male

    In other news:

    The left thinks Guns are bad when 20 kids are killed – we need to ban guns right now..



    A movie about shooting Whites for over 2 hours — KOSHER – , and Fat Harvey wants the show go on!:

    [Heartiste: I despise my culture with a burning hatred even my florid powers of description cannot sufficiently relay.]

    Everybody got that? Don’t argue.

    [Fat Harvey and Tarantino are pustules on the ass of truth and beauty.]


    • Leftists are more worked up about actual dead kindergarteners than fictional dead slave owners? The horror.


      • Nobody will remember those children except for their poor families in a few months…

        That movie, however, will be playing in the theaters and on TV for a long time… generating white guilt and negro hate in the minds of the impressionable for years.

        This isn’t rocket science, dweeb.


    • Lucky White Male


      A movie about shooting Whites for over 2 hours — KOSHER – , and Fat Harvey wants the show go on!:

      Movies are fiction. If you want to see white people killing nonwhite people, just read a history book, or better yet, watch a news broadcast.

      BTW, what country you from?


      • Are you aware that gang-bangers and generally violent nig-nogs have killed 10X the amount of their own people in the last 50 years then ALL lynchings combined by EBIL WHITEY. You know me well enough now to accept my statements as fact, but if you want, just ask for proof, and I’ll bury you under a mountain of needless weblinks. Sorry brah…


    • Better gun up now because the po po are not bound by any legal code to prevent you from being harmed by criminals.

      *be advised*

      Warren v. District of Columbia

      Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981) is an oft-quoted[2] District of Columbia Court of Appeals (equivalent to a state supreme court) case that held police do not have a duty to provide police services to individuals, even if a dispatcher promises help to be on the way, except when police develop a special duty to particular individuals.

      By a 4-3 decision the court decided that Warren was not entitled to remedy at the bar despite the demonstrable abuse and ineptitude on the part of the police because no special relationship existed. The court stated that official police personnel and the government employing them owe no duty to victims of criminal acts and thus are not liable for a failure to provide adequate police protection unless a special relationship exists. The case was properly dismissed by the trial court for failure to state a claim and the case never went to trial.[3]


  12. on December 18, 2012 at 4:18 pm The Man Who Was . . .

    The problem is that you can simply reverse the experiment with different contants:

    1. Sex with a beautiful woman for many years with no children.
    2. Sex with a beautiful woman for many years producing many children.

    The latter is more alpha.

    [Heartiste: Depends. Was the former by choice? Then no difference in alpha maleness. Otherwise, yeah, in this case the latter would be more alpha if for no other reason that that he was able to convince his woman to wreck her body for species propagation.]


    • How is the latter more alpha?


    • Right. Most women, except perhaps the dumbest, realize that having a kid makes them much less desirable. If the beautiful woman is using birth control, she is not really surrendering to you and forsaking all others, so to speak. If she lets you knock her up, on the other hand… you get the idea.

      And for the record, I am of the opinion that sperm banks should all be shut down and banned. Plenty of betas donate their pollen, and a large portion of the consumers are lezbocunts and well-established older (ugly, fat) single women. Dysgenic effect right there.


  13. on December 18, 2012 at 4:20 pm The Man Who Was . . .

    That extra primal feeling is mostly the result of going raw dog on a woman.

    No, the extra primal feeling is the result of knowing that a woman is willingly giving up her body to be completely taken over by your genetic material. Colonize me, baby.

    [Heartiste: Raw dog IS colonization. The feeling is the same even if you know she’s on the pill. (unless you pull out, which is no fun.)]


    • on December 18, 2012 at 4:29 pm patriarchy shall redeem us

      the feeling of the moment (flow) may be, however, the feeling of state for a longer period of time having many beautiful children with a woman as you can see at at 3:55 or even better being a true patriarch with multiple such women creating your tribe in a manner of progressive replication … goes beyond bachelor alpha being


      • my god… those folks are gorgeous. not a single one in that crowd could be described as plain. i’d make an exception to my generally anti-immigrant stance for any young estonian (or finn!) with a 3 digit iq to be allowed in. god knows, the american gene pool could use the improvement.

        thanks for the link.


      • on December 18, 2012 at 5:36 pm patriarchy shall redeem us

        @NY: wouldn’t it be better if white Americans settled and build a future in in Estonia with large families? Unfortunately in the US the proposed genetic influx would be diluted away soon. I believe a solution for the w r will be a) to establish havens of patriarchy, b) focus on technology and c) spirituality. Imagine a country with a low density of population, but with cities that focus on technological advancements and spirituality at the same time…

        btw. here comes a translation of the song

        What is this land?
        There’s no mountains,
        only forests and swamps.
        But the people here are full of magic
        and their songs are strange.
        What is this land, once the night eats up the day
        thae the day is so long that swallows the night.
        They both pass away the same
        when a stranger rests, a local works hard
        What is this land, can people only be slaves
        And who will collect this pain
        that would come love and ends this torture.
        What is this land where the compassion is in danger
        What is this land where the freedom is digged in the ground
        Where is the justice, where is the peace
        Where should the troubled look for justice
        What is this land, compassion is in rust here
        in rust is shame heartless chest
        I could run from here right now
        but something is keeping me from doing from this.
        What is this land, what can hold me
        and how is it doing that, don’t know
        It doesn’t cover or feed me
        but it still drags me along with it
        What is this land, can I understand it
        What is this land, can I be without it
        What is this land, how could it leave it’s children
        without their mothers
        What is this land?
        There’s no mountains,
        only forests and swamps.
        But the people here are full of magic
        and their songs are strange.


      • Finland is…odd….but the girls are indeed gorgeous.
        They don’t say much, but who cares?
        Estonians smoke like Victorian era chimneys.
        Still cute.


      • your ideal scenario bears a close resemblance to the culture of fundamentalist latter day saints. not that i think there’s anything wrong with that. _somebody_ has got to step up to the plate and generate more white folk. from what i’ve read only mormons, religious christians and jews are doing so.

        moving to estonia is a non-starter. why should they let us in the door? i’ve been reading up on the country after viewing your link and it seems they are having a lot of trouble ejecting their russian invaders from cold war days, who themselves are no slouches in looks and ability.

        i think of the old joke where the emigration of a certain group lowers the iq of both the country they move to and the one they left.


      • patriarchy shall redeem us
        @NY: wouldn’t it be better if white Americans settled and build a future in in Estonia with large families?

        Why should Estonians let you in when you have already proven yourself worthless defenders of a continent your forefathers conquered?


      • +1 for Thwack


      • Yeah, a solid point… goddammit, it can’t be denied.

        On the other hand, though it is the eleventh hour, there are yet some minutes left on the clock.


      • Maybe thwack ain’t really black.


      • Poetry sir. I’m sure that when muds envelop this land, I will, hands bound, having murdered countless numbers of the lesser races raise my eyes to you thwack and say– “Remember we talked once on CH?!?” At which point, YOU will open my neck, without prejudice simply understanding human nature. The West is doomed. Greg on the other hand, will become your pet nigger. From a HBD/Race perspective he isn’t quite ‘red pill’ yet. Sort of 50/50 but he may go either way, I shall watch and see…


      • Pet nigger, eh? Keep talkin’ your shit, Jay in DC, and I’ll open your neck for you, when the time comes.


      • Well, at least I know now you talk the talk, if you walk the walk when the time comes, then you needn’t ever commit such an atrocity against someone like myself. My concern is how many “thwacks” will shuck, jive, sing, and dance their ways back into mercy. Methinks too many. Most creatures will go to “any means necessary” (props Malcolm) to preserve their own life.


      • I think we’ll have to break up the country to make these things happen. You’d have to do some resettlement, etc. to get there. It would take a war to crush the vested interests as well.


      • say what? there were a whole bunch of them that looked borderline retarded/inbred.


  14. Alpha needs context.

    [Heartiste: Status context, you mean.]

    Building your own tribe with your family as the skeleton of that tribe is that context. To get that family requires mothers and children, lots of children, with each of them also having lots of children. In time the tribe becomes a nation and it is known by your name, the first father from which it all was seeded.

    [Most men who father children are standard issue beta males who pop out a couple kids with a late 20s, early 30s wife, upon which the entire extended family naturally rallies around him and his wife and dotes on the kids, because it is the simplest thing in the world to convince immediate family to love one of their own blood. If this is tribe building, then it is building of the sort that requires almost no effort or powerful leadership of the sort that is typically associated with alpha males.]

    That’s alpha.

    [Nope. That’s processive.]

    Sterile serial copulation is functionally the same as masturbation.

    [Functionally the same, but not emotionally the same. And we are creatures of emotion before anything else.]


    • Functionally the same, but not emotionally the same. And we are creatures of emotion before anything else.

      And so this website may now close forever. CH is revealed as a chick.

      We are creatures of emotion before anything else? Speak for your moody, mercurial, manic self. This female brand of analysis is why women are so unreliable and easily manipulated. Emotions are faulty signals that mask reality like drugs. They help women submit, bond intimately, and nurture in ways men cannot. They possess great power for maternity and cooperation where reason is unavailable and force is inadvisable. But as a measure of a thing’s value? They’re the worst possible yardstick. They form the erratic nature we put up with in women so we can reap the better stuff, a sweet weakness idiosyncratic to their sex, not the thing that defines the human condition.

      This superficiality and sentimentality exposes the soft gooey center of your rationale. Men don’t act to create falsely-based emotions in themselves. They act to have an actual effect on their actual environment. We are all about the functional above the emotional. To dump your impotent seed into an impotent womb is to play pretend, just to derive a simulation of a feeling available only because you’ve tricked your reproductive system into thinking your action is significant.

      But wait. Elsewhere you go on to say:

      I’ve blasted inside women who were not on any contraceptive (not a smart move on my part, I’ll confess), and it felt pretty much the same to me as those times with women who were pilled up.

      Well, which is it? “Not emotionally the same” or “pretty much the same”?

      At least present your emotion-cum-analysis consistently. Either steady your flights of caprice, or try using that manly noggin to reason backwards from alpha, and tell us what incontinent tail-chasing and the pedestalization of emotion has to do with being an apex male.



  15. In the long term, the only thing that matters is the line of your progeny. Alpha males are alpha in the sense of an obsolete environment, in which the behavioral proxy for reproduction (having sex with women) worked. In a new environment, when this is no longer so, these people are perceived as alpha but in reality they are not.

    Or, to phrase it easily – having sex with a lot of women was necessary and sufficient condition for being alpha in the past (in no small part due to the high death rate during childbirth). Nowadays it is a necessary and sufficient condition for being perceived as alpha. Being alpha today does not require for you to have sex with a lot of women. It is strictly optional. However, since alphaness in the old and new sense somehow correlate, a lot of people being able to see past the liberal veil of contemporary idiocy are confused about what the ultimate goal is.


  16. on December 18, 2012 at 4:26 pm The Man Who Was . . .

    The feeling is the same even if you know she’s on the pill.

    No, it is not.

    [Heartiste: Well, I’ve blasted inside women who were not on any contraceptive (not a smart move on my part, I’ll confess), and it felt pretty much the same to me as those times with women who were pilled up. But I guess we’ll have to abide our impressions on this matter pending scientific rebuttal either way.]


    • It feels better with a pilled up woman. You can relax without the nagging worry of unwanted pregnancy.


    • “Well, I’ve blasted inside women who were not on any contraceptive”

      Are you sure you’re not shooting blanks? I’d like to have kids, just to be sure.


      • I used to do this all the time, never got anyone pregnant so I thought I was shooting blanks, then one day I did get one of them pregnant. Making a kid is sometimes more difficult than your high school sex ed class would make it out to be. I wouldn’t take too many chances ~


    • Agree with TMWW, there is nothing like the feeling of flooding a tight, post-orgasmic and fertile womb with copious quantities of my mighty seed. The risks of getting her preggo are rarely worth that massive feeling of dominance, so I rarely do it. I look forward to the day when I can release at maximum intensity with impunity.


    • on December 18, 2012 at 5:32 pm The Man Who Was . . .

      it felt pretty much the same to me as those times with women who were pilled up.

      Have you considered the possibility that you are not a representative sample?

      Fuck, this is too easy.


    • on December 18, 2012 at 6:02 pm Karl-Friedrich Hollywood

      Being open to having children, and having your wife be open to it, does change the experience. I don’t think the difference is scientifically verifiable, but its there. The “not a smart move” element is not there. You are both ok with it. It’s different.


      • Women on the pill don’t ovulate. My husband always wants me more and pays me more attention when I’m ovulating. Even when he has no idea that I’m ovulating. Pheromones? I take it he is addicted to the feeling of shooting inside of an ovulating woman. There are lots of differences in the female body when she’s ovulating. I’ll let you do the research yourself, there is lots of it out there.


      • There are lots of differences in the female body when she’s ovulating.
        Is swelling of the yoni one of them? I noticed it a day or so afterwards when I was thinking to myself, “damn, that pussy I had was better than usual???”


    • [Heartiste: Well, I’ve blasted inside women who were not on any contraceptive (not a smart move on my part, I’ll confess), and it felt pretty much the same to me as those times with women who were pilled up. But I guess we’ll have to abide our impressions on this matter pending scientific rebuttal either way.]

      I agree, it is pretty much the same…


    • Yes, the feeling is the same. You probably just don’t have much experience in raw dog no pill blasting so it got you excited. Once you’ve done it hundreds of times it’s the same.


  17. While i have time post it occurs to me that the men that are carrying out all of the atrocious school shootings are in fact acting like women.

    If a woman’s needs and desires were treated the same way by society as a man’s while also having the increased agression and agency of a man i belive that school massacres are the exact way that hypothetical woman would behave.

    So you have boys/young men being raised only by women, the women have no experience of how society treats men so they teach them based on their own experiences, so these boys belive their wants and desires are the most important thing in the world and they can expect the wider society to care about what they want. Then they bump into the real world and a violent rampage is the result.


  18. It is not the children or the genetic legacy per se that swells men’s souls with alpha sweetness; it is the sex with feminine, willing women which does the trick.

    This is the binary imagination of a person who can only think in terms of hedonism and darwinism. Harems and bastardy or sperm bank.

    …anti-game, putatively trad-con haters who like to assert that having kids is the defining feature…. the old skoolers … claim that children are the crux and the crucible of alpha maleness are right….

    These “trad-con haters” are either elaborate straw men or the very worst advocates for their philosophy.

    “Alpha maleness” is the aggression and assertion that leads to power. In the context of genetic legacy, it can be expressed through a sturdy and numerous progeny. In the context of the military, it can be vindicated by leading men to victory. In the context of academics, it can be created through a dominant class of acolytes. In the context of a bar, it can be measured by picking up the hottest chick. Where do each of these rank along a continuum of importance? That is an entirely different conversation.

    You and your phantom interlocutor are making the same category error.



    • And yet the Trad-cons are the haters.

      They have a real problem with the pursuit of sex for it’s own sake. (Traditionally, even within marriage). They’re just as “binary” as the host.

      The ability to procreate is good. But the ability to procreate with the hottest babe possible is even better.


    • These “trad-con haters” are either elaborate straw men or the very worst advocates for their philosophy.

      I interpret it as trad-cons who think beta is the only way to go and close their eyes to the red pill. Both of us are trad-cons, but we aren’t “haters”, despite your playing Dutch uncle to the hedonistic attitudes here (which I’d say is certainly needed at times). And we all know that manboobery has completely infected the Republican Party, so the “trad-con hater” problem is real.


      • Yeah, King A is an exception. But he thinks he’s the rule.


      • It’s not about being “an exception” or “the rule”, it’s about being right. Feminism is “the rule”, yet is it any more acceptable? Fuck no. You guys constantly miss the point.


      • Cuntpress ate my reply. In case it doesn’t mysteriously show up, a paraphrase:

        The “trad-cons who think beta is the only way to go” are not the enemy. Most men go along to get along. They don’t want to rock the boat or blaze new territory. “The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.” If the culture didn’t punish anti-feminism, these “trad-con” betas would act like men. They are not the corrupting element, they are a symptom. When the new radicals make it easier to be manly, the great middle 60-80% will go along to get along in a different direction. That’s how feminism levers the present majority.

        This explains the “manboobery … infect[ing] the Republican party,” too. They are not the infecting agent: if they were, they’d save themselves the grief and gather across the aisle from the “anti-woman” party. The culture that rewards feminism and punishes manliness is what make it dangerous to promote certain truths. This failure to recognize/confront the enemy might make an average man and Republican more cowardly (and prudent) than the radical, but it doesn’t make him a complete pushover. It’s pointless to go after potential allies when they’re just keeping their head down the way most men do.

        Second, the people CH labels “trad-con” are neither traditional nor conservative. I doubt their existence. They are figments of CH’s inescapable darwinism as the explanation for everything. He strains to define hedonism as the preferred alpha mode because it is his mode. Conservatives note the folly of this way of life not because it is unavailable to them but because they have bigger fish to fry than the red snapper of every flooze that wafts by. Traditionalists honor the “democracy of the dead” because that’s what experience has demonstrated to work better than giving maximum voice to animal urges and defining success against them. A man directs his progeny not just by sheer quantities but by quality of influence — Philander Rodman has no legacy to compare with Brigham Young’s.

        The CH tautology is to assume barren-womb friction defines and sustains alpha, therefore alphas seek eternal masturbation into dryboxes. More than libertine and onanistic, it’s a little gay. All the pleasure, no possibility of significance 1) beyond the moment or 2) unifying and reflective of both participants, i.e., independent of the act itself.

        The genetic legacy is a side-effect of alpha, not the defining factor. It is one piece of circumstantial evidence that points toward proof. There are virgin trekkies who sire broods through the internet and sperm banks, just as there are infertile alphas who drank from plastic water bottles and now shoot blanks. Outliers don’t define a type.



    • I agree. This whole Trad-Con label is a straw man to a large extent.


  19. on December 18, 2012 at 4:32 pm The Man Who Was . . .

    The problem here is that you are projecting what you value above all else, sex, onto males (and people) in general.

    [Heartiste: I’m not talking of values, I’m talking of limbic impulses and primal emotions.]

    Don’t get me wrong, sex is a very high value for most men, but not the ultimate value, as it is for you. Face up to the fact that you are different, that people are different, and admire and value different things.

    [I bet there are vanishingly few men who pursue sex with the best babe they can get thinking firstly of the children that will ensue from the intimacy.]


    • on December 18, 2012 at 4:55 pm The Man Who Was . . .

      I bet there are vanishingly few men who pursue sex with the best babe they can get thinking firstly of the children that will ensue from the intimacy.

      I bet you’d be surprised at what most men want.


      • on December 18, 2012 at 6:02 pm Holden Caulfield

        “I bet you’d be surprised at what most men want.”

        Just because most men lack the charisma and skills of a typical alpha male doesn’t mean they don’t want the same things as the alpha. However, the acquisitions of the alpha male are often beyond the skill set of the beta male. Therefore, the beta male assuages his ego by saying he wants *different* things and sometimes going so far as to chastise the decisions of the alpha (most likely from a place of extreme envy). See “sour grapes” as an easier explanation.


      • It is possible to want more than one thing

        Some men may want “true love” and children, there is no denying this, but they also want great sex with a woman that turns them on ( which does not mean she has to be a 9 or 10 or even an 8 men are realist unlike most women ).

        No man wants all this – marriage, fidelity, children, a career, a house with a white picket fence etc etc – without the sex

        wanting one thing does not exclude wanting the other things

        and with great sex all of the above will be better, even the white picket fence!


    • I bet there are vanishingly few men who pursue sex with the best babe they can get thinking firstly of the children that will ensue from the intimacy.

      And since when does “thinking firstly” constitute the entire interplay between our will and “limbic impulses and primal emotions”?

      Thinking “firstly” about “the best babe they can get” would mean rape, which would mean jealousy, justice, violent confrontation, and death. Thinking “nextly” is what keeps us from indulging the “impulses” and “emotions” that allow you to operate without being set upon by a murderous mob of betas. Thinking “nextly” is how we determine not just our “very high” and “ultimate” motivations but also how best to achieve them. Without an ability to manage the firstly, a man is neutralized in civilization. We don’t live in a state of nature, so the nextly takes precedence.

      You flit between the rules of civilization and the law of the jungle in order to evade getting pinned down. That maneuvering might do wonders for your self-satisfaction, but it hardly presents a coherent case. Without civilization, your behavior gets you dead, quickly. With civilization, you pontificate about the state of nature and lecture about proper motivations. If men were controlled by these “impulses and emotions,” there could be no civil protections, and you would be castrated or worse.

      The Man Who Was has discerned the most rational explanation for your rejection of every other possibility but your own, and you reject even that explanation as possible. This is the symptom of a recalcitrant and inert mind. You are frozen in the glories of youth with no ability to imagine the uses of maturity or long-term thinking.



  20. on December 18, 2012 at 4:33 pm patriarchy shall redeem us

    the conductor in this video has many children – one of them a beautiful blonde at 4:00 at

    would he achieved the heights of patriarchy without having procreated in a physical and spiritual act?


    • on December 18, 2012 at 4:35 pm patriarchy shall redeem us

      @heartiste: and isn’t patriarchy the height of being alpha?

      [Heartiste: Alpha refers to individuals. Patriarchy is a system of cultural governance. If you want to call it alpha, be my guest, but know that it bears little resemblance to the term as it is accurately defined.]

      with a true patriarch being a leader of men among more

      [Overlap happens. A true patriarch who was a leader of men would inevitably be attractive to a lot of sexy women, thus making him alpha.]


      • on December 18, 2012 at 4:58 pm patriarchy shall redeem us

        let’s compare 3 men:

        an alpha male

        1. who does not procreate
        2. who procreates via a sperm bank
        3. who procreates with one woman
        4. who procreates with many women in loose relationships
        5. who procreates with many women in a polygynous family setting

        most alpha of the above is 5. Why? because he is so alpha to create and keep this polygynous / polygamous setting, because he has influence and can direct the results of his procreation – his sons and daughters, his legacy.

        btw. if many white alpha males – let’s call them patriarchs – would unite to create a society based on such concept – how would that society look like?


      • Not sure I would classify their patriarchs as ‘Alpha’ – zealot nut case might be more accurate – but there are towns in Utah and remote mountain areas of Arizona that fit your description.


      • If I convincingly pretend to believe Joseph Smith was other than a brilliant con-man can I get that lifestyle going !!?


      • If I convincingly pretend to believe Joseph Smith was other than a brilliant con-man can I get that lifestyle going !!?



      • Nope, too hard for him.


      • The closest thing to 5 is Islam and now-unconventional Mormonism. Islam is now a cluster fuck of the most moronic nations ( witness the murders of the Polio vaccination (!) workers in Pakistan in the last few days), but Mormons seem pretty hard-working, with a low murder rate, if a little dim witted if really really believing Joseph Smith was who he said he was.


      • Your ideology is salient, rational, and logical. FIVE is indeed the “Apex Male” by any yardstick, particularly a K selected Apex Predator Male, but then… as I said above does this world exist anymore? It ONLY exists if and when, as I posted in my first response to your astute points here ArchAngels, Gabriel, Michael, Raphael re-establish their BALLS as uber-mensch and smite lower races. Do you think this can happen now? If not, how will YOU personally, remind them of their heritage? I read CH, I read SBPDL, I read a few other places that point to the same problem. CH and SBPDL are -expert- disseminators of the problem-, and they have massive hit rates, so I don’t shit on them for that. BUT, they are not places you can find solutions. As I have said too many times on SBPDL, expand your fucking network… This war is not yet lost with some action.


      • Don’t waste your time thinking about it. #5 is never coming back. If you think saving western civ so that #5 can ensue, you’re dreaming in Technicolor. If you like #5, you have to establish a colony of people that like living this way, especially women who will acquiesce to this. There are nutjobs that would. LOL! Marry just one of them or none at all, it makes no difference, because you’ll live with them and have sex with all of them either way. Make lots of children with them, and live like they did back before modern conveniences. The women will toil during the day and you’ll fuck them at night. That’s what you’ll do every day on your special colony. Is that what you’re longing for?


      • That’s what you’ll do every day on your special colony. Is that what you’re longing for?

        You misread me sheboon. I’m longing, not for an old world that will never return, but a new world, born from the ashes of this still thriving shithole the West has become. Those angelic looking women from ‘patriarchy’ above, you think they were held, coddled, and pedestalized prior to 100 years ago? Not even a little. They were taken, submissed, forced, compelled. Maybe through words, definitely through physical action. I’ll go off-script here for just a moment.

        Race has little to do with this. For 50,000 years men had eyes, and we still do. We are Visual Lizards. So when some men saw women with supple breasts, pink nipples, green, grey, blue, white, hazel, eyes. Skin as white as the driven snow. Hair blonde, red, auburn, light brown, straight down to between her legs, etc. There was what I like to call historically “an orgy of DNA transfer” as it should be. We saw that the gods had sent us a gift. 49,900 years later— Regular humans, and sub-races who share more in common with simians than humans, also noticed these creatures. They built 100 year of propaganda to lift themselves out of shit and misery. Doing whatever it took, against all odds, to fuck angels. And it worked…


      • I know you are talking about a new world born out of the ashes of the old. You can’t go back in time, so you have to establish it anew – obviously. I got that. What I meant is that “5. who procreates with many women in a polygynous family setting,” is an old world notion (over 2,000 years old) that will never come back. It hasn’t been part of the West since the time of Jesus. So what you are longing to create is unrealistic.

        In addition, what you are proposing is compelling sex through force or rape. Do you think you can really do that? Don’t you think those gorgeous women you’re dreaming of forcing have brothers, fathers, and husbands who will not allow such behavior? What you propose never occurred in civilized human society unless it fell to another. The men in civilized society never allowed their women to became free-for-all.

        And why do you bother thinking about rape so much my entitled heboon? Is it really necessary? Aren’t you able to get enough women as is, or the fact that some women reject you for whatever reason rendered you irrational? If you need to rape women or submit them to your will, why not date submissive women who get off on being raped? I’ll admit it’s part of the female psyche. Women want to be forced into sex with a man they fancy. So you see, you can will it in your relationship by being dominant without having to stoop to the disorder rape creates.

        For society to function properly there has to be hierarchy and order. Children should be born out of the purity of knowing who their daddy is. That’s why I am so opposed to sperm banks. It takes away a human being’s history and legacy so that we became people that just exist. There is no father that taught and instilled values and dread for misbehaving. There is no inheritance of your father’s name or property. It’s equivalent to communism. In communism, the individual has no property or name. He’s a number. Part of the collective, an appendage of the greater body, another sheep in the herd. Animals don’t need to know who fathered them, but humans do. Animals don’t need the father’s influence but humans do. What you’re proposing takes away order and creates a chaotic void.

        BTW, it also sounds like you are angry black men go after gorgeous white women, right? You have no one to blame for that but those whores. I don’t see what they see in black men. I was never attracted to black men. It’s the sign of the times – lack of morality and lack of standards – ‘cause what does a black man offer a woman other than sex? So these women are sluts. Don’t go out with sluts. Look for nice girls, unless you yourself are too sleazy for nice girls, which is why you are so frustrated and thinking rape will solve these issues???? If that’s the case, you need to un-sleaze yourself.


  21. Yes and no.

    In the animal kingdom, where alphas and betas exist in their natural habitat, sex = procreation. Alphas have the most sex and the most offspring, not either/or. When you separate sex from procreation the term “alpha” becomes sketchy.

    That said, the mating patterns of cads are more analogous to an alphas than family men’s are. While the legacies of family men are more analogous to alphas than childless cads’ are.


    • You could argue that mating patterns are the defining characteristic of alpha males, and therefore childless cads are necessarily more alpha than dads. But mating assumes procreation and is inseparable from it without throwing the whole alpha/beta system into disarray.


  22. Christians believe man is more than a biological entity, therefore an alpha definition that is restricted to biology is limited. It doesn’t refute your argument, but from a Christian viewpoint, your argument is incomplete or only a subset of a larger definition.


  23. on December 18, 2012 at 4:46 pm RappaccinisDaughter

    I just read that reformed-incel piece and it made me want to cry. I know he’s doing well now, but you have to wonder how many others are out there suffering like he did.

    Proposed: Every self-proclaimed Slut Walker gets to wear her slut badge with pride, no mockery or societal disapproval, on one condition. She has to have crazy chandelier-swinging monkey sex with one incel a quarter. Assigned by lottery.


    • I agree. Tragic. Still wrappin’ my brain around it. I imagine plenty guys here have been there?


      • Yup, been there, although not quite as badly since I had tried some PUA material before and was fully aware that feminazism was wrong about women. This blog is the only thing that has helped at a fundamental level.


    • on December 18, 2012 at 6:05 pm Karl-Friedrich Hollywood

      “but you have to wonder how many others are out there suffering like he did.” Millions. Literally.


    • That’s an amazing proposal. Seriously. I wouldn’t mind the slut walkers half as much if they made themselves useful, and doing their part to prevent mass murder via pussy access would certainly be that.


      • on December 18, 2012 at 7:32 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        To feminist lurkers: It’s not so bad.

        “Cool Story, Bro” Time!

        He was an LJBF (although, in my defense, he’d never come on to me in any way, shape or form) and we were hanging out one night. I was bitching because I was having a dry spell and my FWB had just called me to tell me he’d started a relationship and, therefore, wouldn’t be able to meet up with me over break. And LJBF, who was normally the sweetest, most passive, quiet guy, came over all angry all of a sudden. “A month?!? A MONTH?!?! How about NEVER? You want to try NEVER on for size???” And so on. I was shocked.

        But then…an idea occurred to me.

        I said (and I’m paraphrasing this, I was kind of high at this point): “What am I, chopped liver? I’m right here, bro. We’re friends, right? So let’s help each other out.”

        He sputtered. He did a spit-take. I actually had to take my shirt off and straddle his lap before he realized I wasn’t kidding. It was kind of sad. But eventually he rallied, and by the third time, seemed to be hitting his stride.

        The next morning we both went home for winter break. He never came back. Turned out he was failing and his parents pulled the funding. I knew he had some problems, but I hadn’t known it was that bad.

        So yeah, go ahead, call me a slut. I might have saved some lives. Maybe not–it’s hard to prove a negative. But look me in the eyes and tell me I did a bad thing.


      • Sleeping with someone you aren’t really into, because you feel bad for him, is a nice thing to do.

        [Heartiste: The pity fuck: the solution to, and the cause of, omega male self-loathing issues.]


      • on December 18, 2012 at 7:58 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        I wouldn’t go so far as “nice.” After all, I got mines, too. Eventually.


      • on December 18, 2012 at 8:00 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        @ Heartiste: Are you saying I did a bad thing? Genuinely curious. Because I did worryabout him thinking of it as a pity fuck. The field report is that he didn’t seem to mind.


      • Fuck off LDR, NO man would… it is the disproportionate sexuality between men and women. BUT, after you ply your pink wares to him in a sympathy fuck, follow it up with action… TEACH him, why, why you had to provide this in the first place. Why he has been lied to most of his life. Why a CH, a YaReally, a Jay (me), has caused more harm than good in this fucked up world. If you can do that, you are providing for the next generation as ANY good XX should. If not, you are a sympathy cunt with no solution to the problem. Reality.


      • on December 18, 2012 at 9:48 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        I didn’t have a chance. He was gone, back to his overbearing mother and his distant father (yes, he told me), before I’d have had a chance. If I could have even articulated it to him at the time, which I probably couldn’t have, I’d have said, “You’re such a good guy, there’s someone out there for you,” and…here’s the thing…I’d have MEANT IT.

        Why do you think I’m here? I want to help and I don’t know how.


      • “I want to help and I don’t know how”

        Become a free hooker with a heart of gold?


      • “Why do you think I’m here?”

        Attention, validation for your choices, catharsis among aging hedonists.

        “I want to help and I don’t know how.”

        If you wanted to help, you’d feel remorse rather than grasping for pride. “I might have saved some lives.” This is tongue-in-cheek, right? You need some kind of beating. A shock to the slut-system.



      • on December 19, 2012 at 9:22 am RappaccinisDaughter

        Yes, Matt, that bit was tongue-in-cheek. But what about your offer of a beat-down? You know the rules; clown mask or GTFO.


      • You like the mother theresa of sluts.

        The only thing wrong with this can be summed up with the old adage:

        “Give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he won’t go hungry again”.


      • on December 18, 2012 at 8:06 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        Just had to go with the fish metaphor, did you? I’ll have you know that my hygiene is impeccable.


      • Maybe, but I’ll bet you came home that day with a red snapper.


      • Give a man a whore and he will be sexually satisfied for a day

        teach him how to seduce women and he will be happy for the rest of his life


      • True, but what she did can still be useful, for those incels that are already red pill, or have been incel for so long that their judgement is clouded.


      • on December 18, 2012 at 10:17 pm Ed the Department Head

        I think you did a very good thing.


      • No she didn’t. She behaves like a prostitute (oh, except that she’s for free!) and doesn’t care that her future husband will be hurt by that. Sex without love is dirty, no matter what is your excuse (sadly, in many cultures even rape is not a good excuse).


      • on December 19, 2012 at 2:08 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        Coming from you, Maya, that’s a compliment of the highest order. ❤


      • Juggling LJBF and FWB is such a silently degrading dynamic for all parties that there is no way your little anecdote could have ended with anyone’s dignity intact. Not that I’m complaining in your case: your regular confessions are illustrative of the soul of the debauched woman and are therefore useful to those who have never peered into that abyss. And such cautionary tales would not be possible if you had secured your dignity at any point along the way.

        “Yeah, go ahead, call me a slut.” If only it were that easy. Along with the loss of dignity comes an immunity to shame.

        “Look me in the eyes and tell me I did a bad thing.” If only you were well-adjusted toward bad things rather than desirous of them in a perverse attempt at absolution.

        Your unhinged vagina dispenses no healing balms. Hygienic as it might be, it’s not magical. The boy simply had never encountered female darkness before, which is why he reacted the way he did. At least he got some easy pussy out of his loss of innocence.



      • His precious loss of innocence!!!


      • You misread it, yeahoktool. His innocence wasn’t something precious to be preserved. It was something that ill-prepared him for his first gaze into the heart of slutness.


      • Innocence that it hadn’t occurred to him that they could “help” each other out without having deep feelings for each other.

        I think the whole topic is an interesting one. If you do anything for anyone out of pity, they’ll feel patronized. If you ignore them because you’re not interested, they’ll feel slighted.


      • harsh, matt.

        ‘Your unhinged vagina dispenses no healing balms’.

        ask that poor guy that would have otherwise been friend-zoned. maybe he was glad to have been sexually validated, at least temporarily.

        my take is that RD was administering a work of mercy, and is blessed for having done so in lieu of serving her cruel hypergamous instincts.


      • It’s a work of mercy for an underexperienced lump who pedestalizes sex out of unfamiliarity. But then he has deeper problems than can be cured by any condescending pity-quickie from a skeeze with a twat-itch.


      • ’twas a mitzvah, I tells ya… a mitsvah!


      • on December 19, 2012 at 9:40 am RappaccinisDaughter

        Don’t worry about it, newyorker. I had a pretty good idea what some of the replies were likely to be like.


      • I don’t think you’ve sufficiently allayed newyorker’s “worr[ies].” I think he needs one of your topless lapdance-cum-spellbreakers to become whole again. You still game?


      • “your regular confessions are illustrative of the soul of the debauched woman and are therefore useful to those who have never peered into that abyss.”

        Ha Ha….. the soul of the debauched woman. LOL! I can’t stop laughing at that statement. She should write an article “The Confessions of a Debauched Woman” for all the feminists. I’ll be a hit just from the title.

        “Your unhinged vagina dispenses no healing balms.” LOL! Unhinged vagina. They usually are unhinged, more so with the debauched.

        Sometimes, I wonder what you like more, shaming sluts or fucking them. I think it’s shaming them. Because shaming causes strong mental anguish and you love that.


      • on December 19, 2012 at 2:11 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        Actually, I think you may have just found the perfect title for my memoirs. I hope you don’t expect a royalty…


      • I like fucking them. Don’t really care about shaming them. Sluts are good for society and have their purpose. Just avoid marrying them. I think what RD did was a good thing too.


      • So, you regularly read a gaming-blog, but it never came to your mind that you could, maybe, mention these gaming theories to actually help him?

        But, yeah, sanctifying your pussy and putting yourself high on that pedestal for a pity fuck (self-esteem isn’t a thing anymore, is it?) surely saved lives.

        Run hamster, run, she’ll need it.


      • I was under the impression this happened before she knew all of this. Now, she’d likely suggest something for him to read, etc.


      • If now she knows better, what explains her continuing unawareness of the true, hidden effects of her skanky condescension? She still thinks her veiled contempt for his manliness ultimately did him a favor.


      • “What am I, chopped liver? I’m right here, bro.”

        did anybody else’s cock get a little limper reading this?


      • on December 19, 2012 at 12:25 pm Days of Broken Arrows

        This was actually a nice thing to do. I had a similar circumstance happen several times and each time turned the girl down, fearing there was some hidden agenda I wasn’t seeing.

        That upset the women do bad it pretty much ended the friendships. But, hey, at least sex didn’t ruin the friendship, the big boogeyman of women everywhere!


      • Turning it down turned the tables on her pity. Of course it “upset the women,” you exposed their manipulation and their power.

        Focusing on the “nice thing to do” is the slut’s compensation for an uneasy conscience and a substitute for doing the hard work of determining the right thing to do. You established enough dominance over the situation and did the right thing because you had enough manhood in you to refuse the condescension, “fear[s]” of “some hidden agenda” notwithstanding.

        If you had understood the mechanics of the slut, you could have demonstrated the futility of their ways, rather than avoiding their “hidden agenda” or spazzing out and then meekly complying like Rape-accini’s frightened little victim did.



      • I’m very much anti-casual sex, but sex out of pity really takes the cake. Is there anything more wasteful than a woman slutting her body out of pity for a guy? It’s the lowest of the lows.


      • on December 19, 2012 at 2:51 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        @NiteLily: Does it count as pity if I actually liked the guy? Remember–he was a friend. Someone I cared about.

        What if I enjoyed it, too? Does that make it better or worse, in your book?

        This is fascinating.


      • “What if I enjoyed it, too? Does that make it better or worse, in your book?”

        It’s irrelevant because it’s casual sex, and I think that’s the death of a woman. It’s on par with drugs and alcohol in my book. You should have kept your legs closed.

        And another reason it’s lowly is because you knew he had no chance of being in a relationship with you, right? You just needed some cock. That’s low in of itself. And to justify it, you said to yourself ‘I’m doing him a favor,’ since you had some discomfort with the idea of sleeping with him when you’re not that attracted to him.

        Truth of the matter is, you weren’t truly doing him a favor. Now we’re getting somewhere with the truth, because really having sex with a man (opening yourself to him, physically) as a favor, is tantamount to getting paid for it. You just wanted some cock and he was a good candidate for that, because you’re not that into him and he has no chance of hurting you should you had feelings for him and he rejected you. And there is no judgment from a man like him either, because what he thinks about you doesn’t matter much to you. I bet, had he been a guy you really fancied, you wouldn’t have jumped in bed with him for fun.

        See, that’s why I think women are so fucked up and only old-fashioned notions of women’s sexuality could keep them from turning into the wastes they have become.

        That’s why Kate says she’ll have her daughter married at 22 to an older man. And I am sure she meant her virgin daughter. Kate realizes the reality.


      • on December 19, 2012 at 4:41 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        “It’s irrelevant because it’s casual sex, and I think that’s the death of a woman. It’s on par with drugs and alcohol in my book. You should have kept your legs closed.”

        I find it very interesting that, on a blog dedicated to helping men get laid, there are so many commenters who would seem to prefer that women didn’t participate in the physical act. I could make a cheap shot about homosexuality here, but instead I’m going to ask: How do you reconcile that?


      • What men want and what women want is always at odds, UNLESS they both want the same thing at one given moment, which is marriage. The rest of it is always at odds with each other. He wants sex, she wants to trap him. He wants sex, she wants him to care for her. He wants sex, she wants to be the one woman that did the imposable and snagged him. And the more unattainable an alpha he is, the harder she tries, and the more she wants, and more impossible is the dream.

        The only power a woman has over a man, is not sleeping with him.


      • on December 19, 2012 at 5:40 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        “The only power a woman has over a man, is not sleeping with him.”

        If you believe that, why would you prefer the woman have the power?


      • You see, only feminists make such comments. On the face of it, your rhetorical question sounds non-feministic because it’s supposedly anti-female power. BUT, it’s not the power I mean. I DON’T mean I want to have power over men.

        I mean the power of not being disrespected by a man. I mean the power of protecting myself, which is my right to do. A man has no right to expect me to be a public toilet so that he can get his needs out of the way. There are prostitutes and loose women for that.

        If you hold that attitude men know and they act accordingly.

        If you want to be in a relationship with an alpha, where he holds the power over you, or makes you submit to him, that’s not the issue here. The issue here is that women are willing to do this with every asshole alpha, not just a worthy man that will not abuse you for putting your trust in him. Selectivity is the name of the game for women.

        Feminism is not about selectivity; it’s about acting like men and whoring it up. Ultimately, it robs a woman of her innate needs as a female, which are different from a man’s innate needs. That’s what I meant by causal sex is the death of a woman.


      • “Selectivity is the name of the game for women.” Doubleyes. The reason is really because women can and will fall in love with anyone. So, unless, one guards against it, one will emotionally and then physically bond with someone they shouldn’t be with.

        At root, I think Rapp acted out of compassion, and, if he didn’t feel pited, then she shouldn’t get too much of a bad rap for it.


      • “The reason is really because women can and will fall in love with anyone.”

        Precisely! Thanks for expanding on my point. Any man showing a woman a little bit of forceful intent and a bit of masculinity can make her swoon for him, even if only temporarily, which can obliterate reality for her. That’s why a woman needs to be very, very, selective.

        As I commented later in the thread to White Woman about oxytocin, after sex women release it in much larger quantities than men, which cusses women to bond with the men they are fucking. While he can walk away from her to graze in greener pastures, she is much more bonded to him and unable to walk away. It gives men the upper hand, yet again. Women will never be able to beat men in the game of sex. It takes men a lot longer to bond with women and simple sex alone is not enough, as we have seen all too often from the men’s comments on these threads.

        This can easily be exploited by men if women are not careful about whom they are opening themselves to. Who knows, perhaps not being selective is why White Woman fell for her man whom she married despite him cheating on her when they were dating, and who is cheating on her and causing her much unhappiness till this day. While he is grazing elsewhere from time to time, she can’t even think about loving another. A woman’s bonding in action? That’s why I don’t understands how women sleep with men who have no potential and expect it not to mess with their mental well-being. And Rapp is asking me if sleeping with a man for fun, is it good or bad. LOL!

        The original question by Rapp was if she enjoys unattached sex is it good or bad, implying that if she enjoys it she is in the driver’s seat and can’t be hurt or exploited. I think for the various reasons I mentioned it can cause trouble and women who think they are in the driver’s seat are deluding themselves. Selectivity is the name of the game if a woman wants to protect herself from mental anguish and unwisely using her body.


      • My guess is that by refusing, you conveyed to them that they couldn’t get you hard, i.e., that they were mediocre, and it was like a shiv to their egos.


      • heheh, glad I’m not the only one into that. Except I could never call it a pity fuck. It’s a “variety” fuck. Judging by how you describe it, you liked it, it wasn’t a disgusting “lets get it over with” experience.


      • @ Rappacinis daughter – Remember the Hippies? Free Love and all that?
        Well, what that actually *meant* in the cold, harsh light of reality was ‘I can fuck your girl anytime I want, but you better lay off of mine’.
        Same here.
        The Game Bois want to get laid,

        [Heartiste: Good rule of thumb: anyone who uses the term “game bois” is probably a grade A retard. Jes sayin’.]

        but only by virgins, who are also 10’s and worship Jesus.

        [Actually, what most men want is more and better choice in women, and better success bedding women. Similar to how most women want more and better choice in men, and better success roping them into commitment.]

        Realism and truth are never very strongly represented in online forums/blogs, topic irrelevant.

        [Are you new here? Because you sound like someone who has not read one lick of the archives.]


    • I read it (what a long read) and didn’t feel anything. If I’m a wicked snake woman for not being moved, I guess something in my nature just doesn’t let me care. And I guess that’s why I deserve to be married to a dick that cheats on me. But only since reading heartiste do I understand human nature and understand myself and why I only love mean men.


      • If I’m a wicked snake woman for not being moved, I guess something in my nature just doesn’t let me care.

        Not at all. It means you are healthy and well-adjusted, in convenient contrast to Rappaccini’s Daughter above.

        The “reformed incel” — I assume this means involuntary celibate? — didn’t publish that piece as a bait for sympathy, which is how the slut interpreted it. He wrote it to his unreformed brothers to offer proof that there is hope no matter how harrowing (and pitiable) one’s condition may be.

        But gnarled women who are twisted deeply back into themselves are conditioned to condescend in reaction to sad cases like M3’s to make themselves feel better as charity givers, having no earthly idea the uncharitable indignity their pity visits upon such souls. The unreformed “incels” and Rappaccini’s Daughter both imagine, prior to the act, that all a wretched boy needs is her queenly gesture of niceness, and so the slut interprets her own patronizing attitude as generous.

        This is why the poor sap of Rappaccini’s story should have turned the tables and dominated his charity caseworker sexually, fucking the truth into her, to literally drive home the point that her attempt at injurious pity was not welcome.

        You are far from a “wicked snake woman” for accurately judging virtue and the incel’s lack thereof. That is a woman’s primary job, which is why the slut above is so ugly in contrast. M3 invited you to condemn his former self, not to patronize and excuse it and validate it and bury the possibility of liberation still deeper. Further, your indifference is even better than condemnation, as that is the harsher judgment against weak and weepy men. Brava.



      • Good Lord man, why are you so hard on this chick?

        She gave a guy a pity fuck and also in a land of hamsters on steroids lying deceitful women who think they can do no wrong, she is at least on this blog honest.

        I respect honesty in women. True honesty. When I meet a girl that has confidence to break away from the herd and display real human emotion and honesty that is someone that I take note of. I truely would rather hang out with the prole waitress that I meet with sleeve tattoos all down her arms than the narcisstic SWPL like women that infest my work environment. The waitress is probably deep down more feminine too.

        In order to be anything worth a damn in America, you have to willing to go against the entire mainstream. Going with the flow is no longer an acceptable option if you actually want to retain being a true human being.


      • Well, I think everyone becomes hardened to a certain extent due to their experiences and we beging to recognize all of this as the human condition, not some terrible thing that is only happening to *me*.


    • ” read that reformed-incel piece and it made me want to cry”



      • The sum of all my failures has taught me that it doesn’t matter how hard one tries, if one is doing the wrong things, it still won’t work. The advice we often receive is usually very simple, yet difficult to achieve even when correct.

        Example: Women know men are visual. So, common sense tells us to look good and be quiet. But how hard can it be to sometimes hold one’s tongue, especially if we accidentally start relating to men like women and try to connect with them emotionally.

        Men have discussed that women will never be able to love them and appreciate them the way that they want. And I think the same is true for women. Really taking the red pill means we recognize that we will never get all we need from just one other person.

        One person is not enough. Part of building a full life is having different people in it to interact with about different situations and for different reasons. No one person can be our leading character and simultaneously play all the supporting roles as well. Life is not a one person show.

        While I agree with M3 and Rollo’s point that women don’t know what its like to feel a man’s sex drive and I certainly don’t want to diminish his anguish, there is another side of the story. Women suffer in a different way that men have difficulty relating to.

        Women’s suffering is emotional. They seek committment from the men they love, and as much as I don’t think men should suffer, don’t women suffer when men know they can turn to the next, and the next, and the next to get sex without committment? This leaves women twisting in the wind, or sacrificing one of their precious “number” from time to time. It seem common practice now that no man on the planet with any kind of worth would marry a woman without such an audition.

        In a great irony, online dating has become a modern matchmaking service and hopefully it will help (especially with the new Stir events Match is doing) to get some people together. We have done away with arranged marriage in order to have freedom of choice and now there is so much choice, there isn’t marriage.

        As God as my witness, I will have my daughter married at twenty-two to an older man of good character so she will never have my experiences or suffer for her grandmother’s desire to have a career.


      • You are entirely too morose. The red pill is a liberation, not the cause for despair at reality. You attribute too much primacy to the male sex drive and equally too much primacy to the female emotional drive. Being exposed to the sexual chaos of reality should inspire you to discipline, not defeatism.

        Whoever told you

        taking the red pill means we recognize that we will never get all we need from just one other person. … No one person can be our leading character and simultaneously play all the supporting roles as well. Life is not a one person show.

        is misguided. We cannot get “all we need from” any number of “other person[s].” No person whatsoever can be our leading character. Anyone who promises that is a murderer and liar from the beginning. You seek salvation in men and men’s artifices rather than Nature and Nature’s God.

        Fecisti nos ad te et inquietum est cor nostrum donec requiescat in te.

        Once you come to grips with that, you will stop wookin pa nub in all da wong paces.



      • I am not despairing nor defeated. I am aware of the hierarchy of God, man, woman, child, and I do not seek to put anyone is God’s stead.


      • I think Kate has a pretty good idea what it’s all about. But I do think that her bad experiences with her ex makes her a bit more pessimistic , but maybe it’s why she is more realistic than most of them.


        I enjoyed reading your comment above, it’s very accurate, but one thing I have to counter.

        “Men have discussed that women will never be able to love them and appreciate them the way that they want. And I think the same is true for women. Really taking the red pill means we recognize that we will never get all we need from just one other person.”

        That’s part of the fun. If you want someone to fully love you/understand you, then you need to hang out with your mom. Romantic love is conditional and not fully open or understood. Much of it is a game. You the feminine fight like hell, he the masculine pursues. If you give in too quickly or reveal too much, he knows you too quickly (in the biblical sense) and understands you completely (in the modern sense) and the mystique is gone. Always keep him guessing, even after 30 years of marriage. There should always be an area he can’t reach, but will always try to penetrate. Otherwise, it becomes too boring. And that’s in addition to keeping yourself looking good throughout the marriage – it goes without saying and I can’t believe women need to be told the obvious.

        But you see, when you don’t seek to be completely understood by a man you get liberated. He can love you without understanding you completely and vice versa, because love is connected to the spiritual and that is never understood fully. Enjoy the love without needing to complicate it.


      • “The sum of all my failures has taught me that it doesn’t matter how hard one tries, if one is doing the wrong things, it still won’t work. The advice we often receive is usually very simple, yet difficult to achieve even when correct.”

        True. I’ve been where that guy has been, and in retrospect I’m amazed at how stubbornly I persisted in doing the wrong things. As I’ve gotten older I’ve learned that, while being stubborn is a virtue, it has to be tempered by occasional reality checks.

        But then, compared to the bleak and nihilistic truth as reported daily in this blog, I can see why the pedestal is such a hard thing for guys to let go of.


      • Yes, I have been stubborn too! Imagine that 🙂 But, once you just let go of old ways and give the new ones a try- the ones everybody has been telling you work- is does come together rather simply and you wonder what all the fuss was about.



        “If you want to know why society seems to shun you, or why you seem to get no respect, it’s because society is full of people who need things. They need houses built, they need food to eat, they need entertainment, they need fulfilling sexual relationships. … Either you will go about the task of seeing to those needs by learning a unique set of skills, or the world will reject you, no matter how kind, giving and polite you are. You will be poor, you will be alone, you will be left out in the cold.

        Does that seem mean, or crass, or materialistic? What about love and kindness — don’t those things matter? Of course. As long as they result in you doing things for people that they can’t get elsewhere. For you see …

        [link to Alec Baldwin’s scene from Glengarry Glen Ross]

        ‘Nice guy? I don’t give a shit. Good father? Fuck you! Go home and play with your kids. If you want to work here, close.’

        It’s brutal, rude and borderline sociopathic, and also it is an honest and accurate expression of what the world is going to expect from you. The difference is that, in the real world, people consider it so wrong to talk to you that way that they’ve decided it’s better to simply let you keep failing [just as that incel guy discovered].”

        There’s a bunch more good stuff in there, too much for me to quote, including a good disemboweling of Nice Guy syndrome.


      • “As God as my witness, I will have my daughter married at twenty-two to an older man of good character so she will never have my experiences or suffer for her grandmother’s desire to have a career.”

        By the time she is 22, we could be living in yet another world. Things keep changing at the speed of light. Barring no change, it’s a good plan.


      • Thanks for your thoughts, NightLily. I was with my ex-husband for ten years (from 20-30) so, yes, its certainly had an impact. Heading into year five on my own, I feel like that adage about it taking half the amount of time you were with someone to get over them is true. Not so much him as an actual person, but the person I was then, my beliefs and expectations, and the things that happened during that time. What’s transpired in the past four years hasn’t all been a picnic either, but I wouldn’t keep trying if I wasn’t an optimist and didn’t believe things would eventually work out. I have met a lot of good people who have inspired me to have faith as I keep trundeling along.


      • Of course! You’re constantly reliving and asking if you made different decisions how would your life look now, including never meeting him to begin with. I’m sure that crossed your mind. And, I am sure it’s why you are so cautious now, not wanting to make another mistake. I think maybe cautious is more accurate than pessimistic in your case.

        Anyway, the harsh reality is no one here can understand you completely unless they are in your shoes.


      • There isn’t any way I couldn’t have met him as he was a family friend from the time I was eleven. No, I don’t expect to be understood; any one of our problems could have ended the relationship, but, as it was, there were several combined. You have to be cautious if you want to retain any semblance of integrity.


    • on December 21, 2012 at 3:54 am aspic the fuckin' aspie

      Lol. I am a 21 (22 in April) year old male virgin. It’s tough, but not nearly as bad as that melodramatic article made it out to be – especially when you are curious about the world and have lots of hobbies. Ive been in the wilderness of loneliness for long enough now that it doesn’t really hurt me anymore, it just blunts me.

      My main problem was extreme anxiety and introversion (also briefly some significant mental health issues such as depersonalization) leading me to be bereft of social experience. Now I suffer much less from anxiety, but I just can’t talk to people or hold conversations beyond the most mundane topics. I also struggle with being highly reserved to the point where I can’t escape my “shell” no mater what I do, even with copious alcohol. Last year (been reading this blog since 2010 btw) I went through a period of zero anxiety and was able to hold confident eye contact with girls and create attraction and get “IOI’s”, but since starting at my current job my confidence has become totally destroyed through the negative social feedback I have received and in some ways I am back now to almost worse than where I have started.

      You also have to understand that what most incels really crave is love, emotional intimacy and validation not just physical sex. Hiring an escort isn’t that hard, they just don’t see the point in having a loveless sexual transaction. As for myself, I would be cool with casual sex once in a while, I just don’t want to undergo the shame of loosing my virginity to a prostitute. Loosing your V card to a whore at age 13 is cool, at 21 it’s just sad.

      It’s also funny reading these kinds of empathetic statements online. If you unknowingly talked to an incel IRL you would probably be thinking to your self “who is this lame fuck and why won’t he go away?”.


  24. on December 18, 2012 at 4:52 pm The Man Who Was . . .

    I’ve said it before that people tend to use alpha male in two different senses:

    1. Sexual attractiveness
    2. Social status

    The two are obviously related in complex ways. High social status obviously will make you sexually attractive, but pure sexual attractiveness, even from something otherwise revolting, like being a boy band, can give you social status. Or look at PUAs, who can amass a substantial following of men (and women), simply from the ability to get laid.

    Our host has tried to dismiss the latter social status sense of alpha,

    [Heartiste: I have?]

    but it can’t be dismissed because it simply exists.

    [High social status is an attractiveness trait in men. Evolution has designed men to pursue it because it enhances their reproductive fitness.]

    There really exists a set of traits that people value and admire in men, among which sexual attractiveness is but one, and those males who possesses more of these than others are the alphas in this sense. It really just is what people happen to value and admire. Resisting it is like resisting the sun.*

    Our host values sexual attractiveness to the exclusion of just about all else, so he wants to conflate the two meanings, but he’s something of an outlier.

    [But see, there’s the rub. We all value sexual attractivenes, even those of us who firmly claim otherwise and point to social stauts cues as proof of their worldview, because those cues are simply tools our DNA uses to get itself copied in the most efficient and maximally advantageous possible way.]

    *Please note that while moral worthiness may be something that people admire and value and thus can contribute to social status, there are other traits that contribute to social status which are not at all morally admirable. For example, people admire brutal killers or unscrupulous politicians all the time.

    [King A likes to refer to category errors. Well here’s a big category error trad-cons make: the belief that alpha maleness is necessarily admirable maleness. I’ve never claimed so. The long march of civilization seems in part to require a bit of a turning away from the darwinian imperative.]


    • on December 18, 2012 at 5:01 pm The Man Who Was . . .

      So, our host is free to use the term alpha to refer to sexually attractive men because that is one of its meanings, but he’s not free to exclude people from using the other meaning of the term, because that is simply is one of its meanings. Words mean what they mean. You can add meaning to a word, but you can’t stop a word from meaning something.


    • Well here’s a big category error trad-cons make: the belief that alpha maleness is necessarily admirable maleness. I’ve never claimed so. The long march of civilization seems in part to require a bit of a turning away from the darwinian imperative

      I appreciate the distinction being drawn here. I’ve caught the sense of that in a lot of what you write, and I’m still not convinced you’re not one of the most gifted satirists of the day because of that.

      Could one then say the same thing about alpha males that one says about hot, slutty, young females; that the predominance of such individuals in a society dooms that society to decay? That morality involves sacrificing part of our base, animalistic desires? That there’s a balance that must be struck? When it comes right down to it, we’re all bound to give up some of what we want in order for a civilization to flourish and stay vibrant?

      Interesting conflict, then, between alpha men and admirable men. I’d like to see more about this from you. I know the blog’s about Game, but I think you’re touching on something bigger, and frankly, more important.


      • Read my issues above, but if you ever find yourself in/near DC, I can choke you and hatefuck you until you want to bear my children. Seriously, I’m that good… but salient points!


      • Jay in DC
        Read my issues above, but if you ever find yourself in/near DC, I can choke you and hatefuck you until you want to bear my children. Seriously, I’m that good…

        Or you can just cross the Anacostia river and get yourself a real violent straight out of prison negro who will not only choke and hatefuck you, but he will stab you and throw you in a ditch when he’s finished.


      • Finally thwack describes reality as it is


      • Straight fucking dope kid, and sadly, he’d know me by name to boot— I spent too much time keeping those fucking cretins behind bars. Southeast of Anacostia use to = most of my day. I wouldn’t wish my old life on my worst enemy, it is a soul-killer. Probably has alot to do with why I’m so eff’d up now. But again, I ain’t up nights about any of it.


    • I’d say that in order to be a True Alpha, yoiu need both the sexual attractiveness AND the social status.
      I would classify a high-status guy who isn’t physically attractive to women as a Gamma.
      They still get quality pussy, but always with an agenda.


      • I really wish I give you good looks for a week. I really do, so I could follow you around and laugh as you fuck up hard with women and then you can finally realize that looks just gets you the interview and doesn’t in any way seal the deal.

        You idolize good looks because you are bad looking. You think that if I could just be good looking I’d be successful. If you took your brain and then transferred into a good looking man’s body, you wouldn’t pick up. You literally have to be a male model type to pull based simply on looks. It’s just not good option to strive for.

        I’m going to say this because I’m tried of you bitching and moaning in every single fucking post that you write.

        Stop mopping like a fucking woman and go out there and sarge on 5s. That’s probably the best you can do. Look at the CH chart, you’re probably a lesser beta so Game will up you about 2 points to a 5. Find a plain jane and fuck her. Lower your standards you shiveling little bitch, run Game on 5s and fuck said 5s.


      • on December 18, 2012 at 8:32 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        Is Wolfie male?


      • Wolfie definitely sounds male

        his cynicism seems to indicate a lack of success with women but it is hard to tell why

        his looks? his attitude? his status? bad luck? impatience?

        Wolfie if you are reading this, I used to have only very limited success with women, but it does get better, maybe you are simply too young, I only became better at it in my 40s

        Maybe you are too nice? I used to be that way


      • “You idolize good looks because you are bad looking.”

        It’s a very convenient way of excusing himself from putting in the hard work it would take to fix his shit. Like a fat chick who blames an imaginary thyroid or genetics on why she’s fat while she sits there eating donuts and her workout DVDs collect dust. “It’s not my fault, it’s not that I’m a negative person who’s happy wallowing in the victim identity I’ve carved out for myself…it’s that it’s IMPOSSIBLE!”

        “You think that if I could just be good looking I’d be successful. If you took your brain and then transferred into a good looking man’s body, you wouldn’t pick up. ”

        This. In one of his earliest appearances (2 hour audio seminar by Tyler when he was fresh on the scene, it’s super cocky but has solid old-school game info in it), Tyler says “Put me in any one of your bodies, and I’ll pick up, just like I do now.” I’ve spent enough time in the field and seen enough guys who shouldn’t have success having success, to have the same belief.

        This is why I don’t bother trying to help Wolfie. He doesn’t WANT help, he’s perfectly happy playing a victim, just like the fat chick is perfectly happy eating those donuts.


      • This is how I feel about myself sometimes, I feel like I’m not good looking enough, or fit enough, or have anything to offer people. I just moved to a new city, have no friends, and am not good socially. I saw your comment a few days ago about starting from nothing, and going to bars every friday to chat different people up, but how is someone who has no friends, no experience, and nothing to offer supposed to make friends?

        I dunno, maybe it’s not as harsh out there as I think, but I can’t imagine successful people with friends and experience would want to be friends with someone with none of that. You’ve said in the past that you started from nothing as well, did you ever deal with anything like this when you first started out? I’m willing to try anything, but I have no idea where to even start. Any advice from you would be very much appreciated.


      • Here’s my newbie method, merry Xmas lol:

        “maybe it’s not as harsh out there as I think, but I can’t imagine successful people with friends and experience would want to be friends with someone with none of that.”

        It’s not as harsh as you think it is out there. 🙂

        Other people don’t logically compare your life resume to see if you’re worth interacting with, all they care about is “do I feel good emotions around this person?” and “do they bring value or are they looking to take value?”

        Value can be making people laugh, smile, cheering them up, complimenting them, helping them with something, helping them relax, etc.

        You’re not shooting for banging 10s on day 1 here, you’re more at the “I like your outfit!” And “excuse me do you know where Blah Bar is? What do you think of it? Cool, where are you guys headed tonight?” level of basically handing out compliments and making small-talk.

        Sure, it doesn’t offer MUCH value, it’s just shooting the shit. So how can we make it seem like more value?

        1) be in a venue where EVERYONE feels nervous and anxious (aka a nightclub)

        And 2) choose people who seem to have low-value lol

        Where do we find this combo? Go to a nightclub and look around, usually along the bars or beside the dance floor. You’ll see a bunch of guys standing around holding a drink not talking, just staring at the girls. They’ll often be solo or in small groups and they look like they’re thinking about talking to girls but they just stand there, occasionally talking to their buddy if they have one. They’ll do this the majority of the night.

        These guys are on Death Row. The club environment has overwhelmed them and they’re shell-shocked. They want to socialize but they’re scared as fuck, the same way you are.

        So how can you offer these guys value? Right now they’re nervous and scared to approach or talk to strangers…so you can offer value by chatting them up. That makes them go “oh thank god someone is talking to me!!” and you’ll relieve that tension/fear they have because you’re taking the initiative and letting them know hey, it’s cool to talk to people. They’ll be friendly because you’re rescuing them from the shell-shocked state they were in so they’re GRATEFUL that you started a conversation.

        These guys aren’t going to be rockstar player badasses with tons of friends and lots going for them, but they’re also not always losers, often they’re nice/friendly guys who are just shy with socializing and just froze up and are in panic mode and waiting till they get drunker and can relax in that environment.

        So the value you’re offering is helping them get more social/talkative, which, in a nightclub enviro full of hotties, is HUGE value because if you help them loosen up who knows maybe they’ll talk to a girl and take her home! How much more value could you GIVE someone, you know?

        To not look gay (lol) I usually open talking about the girls. Like I’ll stand near these guys being a part of Death Row myself, and when I see one of them check out a hot girl that walks past I’ll check her out too and then make eyes with him and be like “shit, cheers to THAT girl hey? lol” and hold my beer up for them to cheers “is this place always this good?”. From there if the guy seems friendly I’ll stick to girl talk but share some info about me like “man, we don’t have girls like that back home. I just moved here and some girls on the street told me this place has a bunch of drunk sluts so I figured hey, that’s where I want to go tonight! lol”. Note that I’m setting up easy conversation topics with this, because the guy can ask “oh where are you from?” Or “how do you like the city?” Etc cause remember he’s feeling nervous at the club too…so if you lob him easy conversation topics he can keep the convo going with you.

        Also note how positive a conversation that is. It’s complimenting that girl, complimenting the bar, saying where you’re from isn’t as good, it’s implying you talked to some girls on the street, it’s got some humor to make them laugh. Combined with the value of loosening them up, the end result is they’re going to think “this person gives me good emotions and value!”

        Now this isn’t gonna get you laid, and sometimes these guys are awkward/lame. Hell sometimes it’s their first night in the bar (I love that, I tell them about all the sketchy shit I’ve seen lol).

        BUT, you CAN meet some nice dudes and build some small friendships. Exchange names and now when you see them at the bar again in the future you can say hi. Hell they may even be with girls and introduce you!

        The gold mine is the totally solo guy. This guy is scared as fuck because he’s basically doing what you’re doing. Most of my best wingmen and longest friendships have been with these guys. After the small-talk up above I’ll say something like “ya I’ve never really been here but no one wanted to come out tonight so I figured I’d come out by myself but I’m nervous as fuck!! lol the girls here are so hot I don’t even know what to say to them.”

        Now you’re relating to him and sharing some vulnerabilities so he starts feeling like he knows you. Plus it lets him open up about how nervous HE is. From there you can keep eachother company or try to encourage eachother to approach girls. Ideally you approach first (you’ll probably get shot down, THAT’S OKAY!! lol), just as soon as a girl walks by go “cheers!” and hold your beer out to her. She’ll probably just cheers, give a puzzled look, and walk away…but that’s more than your new buddy has done so while you laugh to him about “man I think she hated me lol” he’s going to go “wow this guy actually talked to a girl!! He’s way higher-value than me!” and from there you’ll probably both start talking to girls or at least talking to eachother ABOUT talking to girls which at this stage of your social life is just fine and dandy. You’re just socializing and making friends.

        The nice thing about these guys is you know if they came out to the bar, they’re bar type people so if you two are still both solo at the end of the night you can say “this was fun we should creep girls out again sometime, you got a cell number?” and boom, you’ve got a wingman/friend who likes to go to the bars and since you both to solo you’re offering value to him because now he has a friend to go to the bars with. You’ve created a win/win situation for both of you.

        When you have a few of these guys, you invite them all out to the same bar on the same night or over for pre-drinks before the bar and introduce them all to eachother. Now you have a little social circle you can build up from. 🙂 It’s not going to be the highest value social circle where girls are lining up to fuck you all, but you can work your way up over time from there and build more social circles with cooler people and merge circles etc.

        So there you go, give it a try. Like I say my best bar-buddies have come from this method over the years. And if I moved to a new city or was in a new enviro I would do this exact same thing because it’s simple and pretty much can’t go wrong.

        Notice that nowhere in that conversation example did I have to admit I have no job or no friends or no social life etc. all that guy knows about me is “this guy is friendly, slightly less shy than me, makes me feel good emotions, and is offering me value!”

        “You’ve said in the past that you started from nothing as well, did you ever deal with anything like this when you first started out”

        Oh ya. Lots. See my problem was that on top of not knowing how to socialize and being scared to talk to strangers and being overwhelmed by the club environment, I had been a computer nerd hermit most of my life so I hadn’t DONE anything, so I had no stories to tell or things to share because my life was boring as fuck.

        What I did was tell strangers stories my friends growing up told me about stuff THEY did, except pretend it happened to me lol if you’ve never had a friend who’s told you funny stories about their life, make shit up or exaggerate things that COULD’VE happened to you. That’s what early PUAs did with routines, it was actually similar to how a comedian looks at their day to day life and thinks “hmm what funny or weird or awkward things have happened to me this week?” and writes them down and practices how to tell them in front of a mirror. In fact a book/website/YouTube video on “how do I tell stories” or on comedy writing ideas might help you out a lot so Google for some of that shit. When you have a story make sure to tell it in every interaction so you get better at telling it, etc.

        What happens is over time you start to collect new stories of fun/weird/awkward stuff that actually HAS happened to you. So you say “cheers!” to a girl and she goes “fuck off!!!!!” and barrels past you. Well that’s a story. “Man the girls here are so friendly. I was at a bar last week and said cheers to a girl and she shouted “fuck off!!!!!” and literally shoved me into my friends! I don’t know if she was hammered or having a bad day but wow I’m so glad you guys are friendlier lol”. Hell, steal that story I just wrote right there lol that just happened to you last weekend! Boom your first story! lol

        It took me a solid 2 or 3 months before I started having interesting stories of my own to tell. 6 months in probably 60% of my stores were my own real ones that happened to me. By a year in it was 100% my own stuff because in a year of going out and socializing I had collected a bunch of random adventures and stories. Now years later I have stories of shit that’s happened to me that people can’t even believe lol

        Hope this helps! This is my method of getting started in new cities and getting warmed up in clubs when I’m feeling shy. I’ve actually gained a few super close friends from it where we hang out outside the bar and I’ve been invited to their family dinners and we play Xbox and shit.

        Also here’s a fuckton of stuff by Style you can watch over the Xmas holidays. I recommend him because for you Mystery’s stuff is going to just cloud your head with “thinking too much” and RSD/Tyler’s stuff is too vague (“say anything you want!”) to be useful to you right now, and both methods are too “getting pussy” focused. Style is sort of a halfway point, he runs similar game to Mystery but he’s a bit more social, casual and friendly which is good for making friends. Once you’ve made some friends you can start worrying about actually seducing girls. 🙂

        Here’s DVD 1, enjoy and good luck. Let us know how it goes. If you blow thru this fast, Google “juggler method”, which is based around building comfort/rapport with people and will help you build a deeper connection with your social circle of misfits lol:

        Make 2013 the year you start getting this shit handled. 🙂


      • Can’t reply to your other post for some reason, but thanks for writing that all out. I’m only 20, so bars aren’t really an option, but the basic ideas still help a lot.

        Just curious, I’ve seen you mention that you are able to easily befriend most people in clubs by being real and not trying to compete with material things, is doing that any different from this? For example, a rich VIP guy with a mansion and six cars, how exactly would you “bring value” and get in that social circle?


  25. I think the man who is most alpha is the one who impregnates a lot of other men’s wives, leaving their beta male husbands to provide or their upbringing.


  26. There is only one defining trait of alpha male rest are all contextual and/or derivative. “Ability to access and control resources (poon/money/job/etc) when he wants where he wants.” When you have that the rest just oozes out in your mannerism and communication.


  27. Alpha is about winning. If the game is kids, who have kids, who have kids, and so on, then he who wins is alpha, and alpha becomes whatever traits the man has and passes on.

    A man that gets laid but has no kids is a temporary situational alpha.


  28. A related thought-experiment: you’re married to a 10 and the sex is fantastic. You have a child with her, who you suddenly discover is not yours. Why do you get angry?


  29. hmmm, so my options are:

    1) Bang a wife who, after birthing my kid, could decide to stay fat and let herself go while society supports her, and when I encourage her to get back in shape since as a fatty fat she doesn’t want to fuck anymore and I’m legally required to only fuck her for the rest of my life, and, when she realizes I’m not satisfied, decides to get a divorce, take half my shit, and I get to see my kid on the weekends if I’m lucky, while paying out my ass for her to get her hair done to fuck some new guy who ends up getting to spend more time raising my kid than I do, IF she can find a new guy, and if she can’t my kid is basically being raised by a single mother who’s too irresponsible to even take care of herself.

    2) Have a dozen kids, have a shit-load of sex with a bunch of different women, keep all my money and free time.

    Why would you choose number 1 again? Because for a 30 second orgasm you felt “cool”? Sounds like a lot of risk to me. Oh, wait, I forgot, you’re going to find the magical NAWALT girl, there are so MANY of those running around society today, I can’t surf the net without running into articles by men on how wonderful and high quality women are these days thanks to feminism lol

    brb not going to use condoms anymore because the most important thing in the world is validating my self-worth through raw-dogging it with women like a badass alpha male, which is totally worth picking up a bunch of STDs and spending a fortune raising an unplanned kid with some random chick while the cysts on my dick explode every few months. Solid long-term logic goin’ on here lol

    This is just a bigger version of “REAL MEN DON’T PEE SITTING DOWN, SO YOU BETTER ALWAYS STAND OR YOU’RE NOT A REAL MAN!!!!” Like Tyler says “Even if you could live up to everyone else’s idea of who you should be, guess what, you’re still a dumb chode who spends his day trying to live up to other people’s standards.”


    • 1) is a beta route, 2) is an alpha route.


      If an alpha went the 1) route, he shouldn’t get divorced or suffer a fat wife.

      If a beta went the 2) route, he’d never get laid, or only with mediocre women.


      • 99.9999999% of women are mediocre


      • TRUTH.
        If only men would realize that, they’d have a lot less trouble with women.


      • So what do you recommend for men?


      • Look — EVERYBODY’s a waste of time for SOMEBODY. I don’t care if you’re a comic-book character who makes men come from a hundred yards, the minute you open your mouth, some man has written you off. In the environments where some shine, others are hopeless. So find a place that suits you and don’t get all wharrlgarbl if something doesn’t go right. Self-knowledge, persistence, character (as defined healthily, not feminist bullshit).

        I do NOT have any trouble getting laid, and never really have except for one short stint in college where I got too religious for my own good and fell apart into betawhiteknightland. But I couldn’t really PUA without some serious motivation — those guys are too into it for me. I think they’re AWESOME, though, for a very simple concept, called “next.”

        Men who can’t Next are in for a world of hurt.


      • Of course they are too much into it for your taste; they are single and playing the field, while you are married with children and responsibilities. That’s why you need to take what suits you from here and leave the rest. There is something for everyone here – it’s not an all-or-nothing deal – and each has to know what’s right for himself and his individual needs. That’s a level of awareness we all need to cultivate.

        Regarding nexting, I think it’s the women that can’t Next. If men are doing it, then they are acting like women with low self-esteem. My only concern is that men will next women not deserving of nexting. Realizing what’s good is also a skill needing cultivation.


      • Damn right


      • Most women have at least one of these defects

        ugly, dumb , mean


      • in my experience its usually two and all three isn’t as unusual as i’d like it to be.


      • mean is the best failing to have. unlike mean, dumb and ugly aren’t fixable.


      • Shakespeare’s Taming of the Shrew had the solution to mean: be meaner.


      • “If an alpha went the 1) route, he shouldn’t get divorced or suffer a fat wife.”

        You can’t punish a woman for shitty behavior when you’ve legally locked yourself into a contract where she holds all the power so you’ve given her free reign to do whatever she wants. Have you really never seen a guy who was an alpha badass, 10+ years into a marriage, stuck with a gross slob? Seriously? An alpha guy has a better chance of avoiding that, but is that really a game of Russian Roulette you want to take so you can “feel like an alpha” for a 30 second orgasm?

        I thought it was women that made all their decisions based on their emotions and “feeling good”, and men made their decisions based on actual logic, stats, numbers, etc. When did these roles reverse? I missed the memo lol


      • You can’t punish a woman for shitty behavior when you’ve legally locked yourself into a contract where she holds all the power so you’ve given her free reign to do whatever she wants.

        Men can divorce too, you know.

        Have you really never seen a guy who was an alpha badass, 10+ years into a marriage, stuck with a gross slob? Seriously?

        No, I haven’t. I’ve seen plenty of dudes (old and young) with fat wives, but none of them ever came across to me as alpha.

        OTOH, I’ve seen wives, even some who’d had several children, but who somehow managed to stay thin or at least normal weight. They’re the reason I know it can be done.


      • Even if a men divorces, he’s still the one who loses half his shit. It’s not who does the divorcing, it’s whether or not it’s done at all.

        Women tend to not bother marrying down because if they marry up, they have free reign to do what they want and if the man doesn’t like it, if a man displeases them in any way, she can go down to the courthouse and get a divorce just like that.

        Men would be smart to not get married at all.


    • There is nothing preventing you from doing both, should you feel like it. Just make sure you’re a donor first.


    • It’s called a prenup. If you are as alpha as you say you are, you should have no problem getting your future wife to sign one. Put in a clause that weight gain is an irreconcilable difference and ground for divorce.

      The law and legal system all you big bad alpha dogs are so afraid of is easily beaten if you have half a brain and cash for a lawyer.

      [Heartiste: Even ironclad prenups can be shredded by a half-competent divorce lawyer. The divorce industrial complex is simply too heavily weighted against the interests of men. Although I do approve of your idea to include a weight-gain clause, just to see the look on the prospective wife’s face.]


      • “The law and legal system all you big bad alpha dogs are so afraid of is easily beaten if you have half a brain and cash for a lawyer.”

        We have enough of a brain to Google how iron-clad prenups really are. Turns out the answer is NOT FUCKING VERY. lol But I, too, approve of the weight-gain clause.


      • You could have a kid with a very wealthy woman (and marry her). There must be some seriously hot heiress you can nab. Then you divorce her and take half.


      • Given the fact that pre-nups are full of holes you could drive a truck through, they are beta. They tell her that you expect her to leave you.


  30. on December 18, 2012 at 5:25 pm The Man Who Was . . .

    But see, there’s the rub. We all value sexual attractivenes, even those of us who firmly claim otherwise and point to social stauts cues as proof of their worldview, because those cues are simply tools our DNA uses to get itself copied in the most efficient and maximally advantageous possible way.

    You’ve completely missed the point. Most people do value sexual attractiveness, but not to the exclusion of all other things.

    Well here’s a big category error trad-cons make: the belief that alpha maleness is necessarily admirable maleness. I’ve never claimed so.

    Again, you’re confusing things. There is the traditional, leader of men, high social status alpha, often with lots of kids. He’s not necessarily morally admirable. Crazy Mormon polygamist cult leaders are alphas, in the traditional, high social status sense, with lots of kids, but they’re not any more morally admirable than the most sociopathic PUA.


    • Alpha maleness is necessarily admirable maleness. I claim so. The idea that strong men are not admirable is a feminist thing. The idea that cads are strong men is a PUA thing. The idea that virtuous men are admirable is an eternally true thing. If virtue weren’t admirable, it wouldn’t be called virtue.

      The question therefore becomes what is virtue and what is vice? The PUA calls pussy-collection the apex of virtue. The classical man calls the traits of leadership the apex of virtue, and pussy-collection one of its many side effects. Room for argument.

      Now are vice and viciousness tempting? Are they attractive? Yes. But alphas they cannot make. Promises are attractive until they are revealed to be empty. Vice is that which tempts us toward destroying the unity of the soul, which produces the strength which is admired.

      What virtuous men do is labeled unadmirable chiefly by the resentment of inferiors. Which is why my critique of the hidden assumptions of this site is automatically classified as resentment. Whatever. I get it: envy drives the usual critics to deny all possibility of superiority, and it is easiest to presume envy rather than fortify one’s defenses. But I am not they. So stop hiding the assumptions and start openly justifying them.

      Is the summum bonum of life vagina? If so, this flies in the face of every civilization’s understanding of manliness from the beginning of history to the dawn of feminism and the self-annihilating sexual revolution.

      At times this site is on the verge of understanding this verity, even at the expense of silently accepting the incompleteness of one’s choices in life. Hint: “summum bonum” is what gamesters would call “the pedestal.” What motivates us? What do we admire so much that we direct our lives around its pursuit? What do we spend our lives chasing?

      The host’s answer isn’t even “women,” for pedestalizing that would be beta. No, their answer is literally just their cunts. But that’s not enough: it is their dead, lifeless cunts, made artificially incapable of fulfilling the function for which they were made, that define their imagination of the very highest pursuit.

      I can understand why a teenager would pour himself into that myth. But we’re attempting a conversation a little above the high school level here, aren’t we? You’d think the perishing of pretty lies would demand it



      • on December 19, 2012 at 5:34 pm The Man Who Was . . .

        You’re as confused as our host. Russian mafia kingpins are certainly alpha males in the traditional social status sense. Polygamous cult leaders with bazillions of kids are alpha males in the traditional social status sense. But they are not morally admirable.

        Being a morally upstanding guy is one way of gaining status, but it is not the only, nor necessarily the most effective, way of gaining status.


      • on December 19, 2012 at 5:36 pm The Man Who Was . . .

        We have another word here that is being used in two senses: admirable.

        This can be used in the sense of morally admirable, or it can be used in the sense of something that simply is admired.


      • Who said “Russian mafia kingpins” weren’t alpha males? They are certainly admirable for having achieved a rare status by whatever means. How they achieved what they incontrovertibly achieved and what they do with that achievement are different questions altogether, which is why elsewhere I introduced the variables of “virtue” and “fear” into the formula. The amoral excellence that put them at the top is what fellow men admire, follow, and respect.

        As I said, “[A]re vice and viciousness tempting? Are they attractive? Yes. But alphas they cannot make.” Even evil kingpins do not achieve their leadership status through evil means. The immoral alpha cannot gain followers by treating them immorally. Those are asinine Hollywood myths, where a murderous cretin like The Joker kills his own henchmen on an evil whim and yet still somehow inspires unwavering loyalty from innumerable others.

        The best such a villain can do is threaten, deceive, and cajole, which is not leading men anywhere so much as coercing them. The weakling with the gun in your back forcing you over the ridge would never be mistaken for alpha. The man in front of you waving you over the ridge is proven alpha by the very fact of your voluntary following.

        Yeah, I’m sick of splitting hairs too. But CH uses semantics to conceal a meaningful switch in terms that makes a subversive definition of alpha seem to be naturally occurring. Whatever the relative strengths of the virtuous alpha versus the “dark” alpha (if there is such a thing, which I don’t concede), the bottom line is this. Morality is not ipso-facto weakness, immorality is not strength; therefore, the quality of alpha cannot be denied by gauging how moral he is. CH does this both subtly and overtly. His cruder imitators sum it up by saying “morality is beta.”

        Add to that being stuck on a strictly sexual-power definition of alpha, and there is no way to avoid confusion, equivocation, and word-slipperiness.



  31. Heartiste your on the largely correct path here. Donate to a sperm bank at the height of your life is roughly the same as juicing into a gash. The only difference is that your letting someone else select the worthiness of your seed, and if you have no intention of raising said hellspawn then that doesn’t matter.

    I have considered for many moons of raising an army of children and I can say with certainty and through relatively recent discovery that while sex is a pretty easy gateway to explain what is most powerful in the male heart I would disagree. It is certainty, no different than a woman (the approaches at obtaining it are wildly different obviously).

    The certainty a lifestyle provides is what gives people their spice, their power. For your life, one perceived by your readership of successful pickup, you will have no trouble continuing it (as you say poolside! :P) while the collapse of the world happens. You have achieved a pass to not participate in the darkness that is brewing and through effort it is a worthy reward.

    Defining “alpha” characteristics should only involve the traits consistent with provided emotional certainty and health (which is a shit word – it should mean “vividness and alacrity in the interpretation of sense data”) in a persons chosen (or most of the time given) style of life.

    I think the want to have children is from a calling that while biological in force…is actually rendered through a realization that something in the world is wrong, and that you have to change it. With my dad it was his redemption from a life of sin. He perceived his actions as sins because our family is heavily religious.

    Once you realize this world is nothing more than a mudball and you literally actually fictionally dickbutttually all the “allys” in the world — ARE NOTHING. Noone cares about your insides (unless their dick wants to thrust into it) and that you have no value. Once you can get that, you will realize that is all the certainty you need. Then your life can be about seeing whats really under the wants of your life and harvesting that power.

    Most people stop at the heights of new certainty and test it by letting shitty things happen. Like addicts, we crave chaos. Once you can get past that you will know that none of this actually matters. That the reason why the production of anything is so paramount, so urgent, in peoples mind is because they effectively arrived on the scene of a battlefield everyone in this own private universe contemplating the single enemy — Value. At constant odds with trying to produce it, to attempt to cope with not having it, and for creating strategies for the alleviation of the two formers toll payed upon the body and soul of its perceivers.

    In short, everyone is trying to cheat death or add 1 to 0. We think the ones who are winning are in a different position but the only difference is the perception of the game and the rules it has to exploit.


  32. What defines the alpha is really about choice.

    Take the following scenario about marriage.

    Is that man in control of his own destiny concerning his mating options? So if he truely wants to stay married and raise kids to a woman that he desires and it’s the number one thing that makes him the happiest, then that’s the alpha decision. If hot women throw themselves at him and he turns them down when he is married and is totally ok with this scenario. Then the married family man is an alpha. His happiness comes first. He has kids because he has the option and he raise them because he wants to.

    Contrast this with the beta family man with the nagging bitchy wife. If he had options for hot young ass, ask yourself with complete honesty, would he stay faithful? Would he not leave his marriage if the option was there to folic in the glorious muffs of pleasure was there? I would predict that many a beta male would leave his wife if he could experience the hot ass he never had.

    Being alpha doing what you want when the fuck you want to do it. End of story.


  33. I’m trying really hard to figure this question out, and at the end of the day, it all comes down to the b) choice being WEIRD. If I choose to have a baby WITH a woman, then I (ymmv) am also choosing not merely to have a legacy, but to SHAPE that legacy by being involved with the kid.

    Which is all kinds of awesome. Kids rock.

    But if I weren’t seeing the kid again? Route A all the way, and may I populate the universe.


  34. ^and I haven’t the foggiest idea which is more “alpha,” assuming that you can in fact get laid if you like. But A) sure seems more to the point. Whereas B) sounds more like doing women. (way more fun).


  35. on December 18, 2012 at 5:55 pm The Man Who Was . . .

    It is easy to see how a man could be a social status alpha without being all that sexually attractive. One can easily thing of an 80 year old billionaire who is less sexually attractive than charismatic 20 year old nobody going nowhere fast.

    Don’t get me wrong, the 80 year old billionaire will do way better than the average 80 year old, but still in terms of sexual attractiveness he’s lower than the 20 year old. But according to our host’s definition of alpha, one would have to count the 20 year old as clearly more alpha than the 80 year old. However, most people would say the 80 year old is more alpha than the 20 year old, or at least be conflicted about it (because of the two different senses in which the word alpha is used).

    The point is that social status alpha (i.e. what is admired or valued most, regardless of moral worthiness) is separable from sexual attractiveness alpha. They aren’t the same thing.


  36. Here is the failure of logic that most people are tripping over themselves on this post:

    1) Alpha male = good
    2) Being a productive member of society = also good
    3) Therefore, being a productive member of society = alpha

    This simply does not follow… unless you have a hamster. Why?

    1) Pol Pot = bad
    2) Feminism = also bad
    3) Pol Pot = feminist

    If you agree with the logic of the first syllogism, then you necessarily agree with the logic of the second.


  37. I’ll be succinct, unlike the author, who I’m sure isn’t deliberately misunderstanding anything, just wasting too much time with the wrong arguments.

    Heartiste has a very flexible definition of an alpha, and he seems unable to nail it to less than 100 words, instead devoting 1/4 of all of the blog posts to bombastic elaborations. It’s much due to the fact that there are probably multiple authors, yet it reminds me of the Supreme Court’s definition of pornography – let’s just call it as we see it.

    Not everyone agrees, Heartiste. An alpha is a leader of men (hence women), which means he has their respect. The scoundrels who receive so much adulation here are omega males who make more enemies than friends. Sure, there’s some leeway, but if you want to sling terms like alpha, which is borrowed and more suited to capturing the behavior of animals, you better be sure you’re making sense.

    The true determinant of a man’s ability to lead is how he raises his sons. They might not test him as hard or often as women, but their amount of respect for him, and what they become, states far more about their father’s character than how many women he can bed.

    I’m surprised that somebody who spends a lot of their time preaching about the effects of single moms can’t put that together.


  38. False dichotomy. NOBODY thinks sperm donors are alpha. If all your offspring are raised by lesbians you’re doing it wrong.

    Here’s the two alternatives:

    1. A player who games lots of hot or mostly-hot women, but never stays with any of them longer than a couple of months. Eventually he can’t pull anything but MILFs, then can’t even pull them, spends his declining years alone and dies unmissed and unmourned.

    2. A patriarch who games a few hot or mostly-hot women, picks the best one, stays with her and raises a bunch of kids. He goes from banging his hot wife to banging his MILF wife. He spends his declining years gingerly banging his old wife, and dies mourned by a large number of descendants.

    When you put it like that, the choice isn’t so clear and simplistic. One can pick one or the other based on one’s priorities. There isn’t a Single True Answer.


  39. The uber-alpha male is the one who can deposit sperm in lots of vaginas, have a significant number of such acts result in his DNA-carrying sperm–and get the rest of society to pay for them all. Desmond Hatchett comes to mind.


  40. I have been a sperm donor for two years now and will keep doing it. I have several reasons for this:
    – avoid being trapped in the wife-house-child cycle, that has a high probability of extrapolating into divorce-child support
    – not having to stay with the same woman for ages. I like the freedom to be able to walk away. If I would have kids, that would no longer be an option
    – I don’t care that donor children can track you down once they are 18. Actually, it would be fun to meet them. I’ll be able to show them my lifestyle, with more money and freedom and less fat old wives than what they are used to. If i get lucky one of my donor sons will also become a donor, perpetuating the cycle and leaving me with a genetic footprint that you can not achieve in a monogamous relationship (excluding religions where each generation spawns 10+ kids)
    – When my donor kids track be down, I will be able to give them the red pill at the right age/state of mind
    – All of the above does not prevent me from getting married and hand raising some spawn if I feel like it. The choice presented in the article is a false dichotomy as you can actually have your cake and eat it too.

    As a donor, I can lean back comfortable and know that dedicated people, willing to jump through a lot of hoops just to have a child, are raising my offspring. They will probably do an excellent job.


    • on December 19, 2012 at 3:25 am quantumtunelling

      I like your way of thinking. I am a sperm donor, too, from mostly the same reasons you are. People like you and me should reproduce more.
      Best wishes,
      a fellow sperm donor.


    • All of this.

      I haven’t actually been a donor yet, but this aligns with my thoughts on it and this article/comments section just confirms that it sounds like a solid plan since the other side’s arguments are basically “but dude-bro don’t you want me to not think you’re a pussy bro????” which is pretty much on the same level as the “man up” articles the MSM crowd has been throwing at us. “Man up bro you don’t want me to think you’re a pussy do you??”

      Lets see some logical rational stats/math/etc on why A is better than B beyond “but…FEELINGS!!!!” I feel like eating a giant box of donuts for dinner but that doesn’t make it a smart decision.

      The fact that the people raising my kid would want it is a big one. Logically if some chick I get preggers decides to smoke/drink behind my back while she’s pregnant (I actually saw an article about this on Jezzie where a bunch of women in the comments were like “a few drinks is okay! Grrrl power!” and shit) and my kid pops out all fucked up, or she ends up being a shitty lazy mom who’s basically going to fuck my kid up, but I’m married to her, I’m stuck with a retarded kid and a fat shitty wife in a legal arrangement where I’m forced to stick around.

      At least people looking for donors legit want a kid, and if they fuck him up, I don’t have to deal with the consequences of that (paying for special needs schools and raising him while hoping he doesn’t shoot up a school)…plus I have 81 more YaReallys out there that might turn out better.

      I’m just looking at this logically lol you guys do what you want. I can’t convince my blue pill friends that marriage isn’t a logical deal for men to enter either “because LOVE!!!!”…I hope you get one of the empty chambers on the Russian Roulette gun and everything works out for you, but I don’t think I’ll play that game with my life all the same, thanks!


      • I must say I’m rather surprised at the overall attitude here, where guys seem to be more worried about what is considered to be Uber Alpha instead of sitting down and weighting the different options.

        Surely, rawdogging random chicks and knocking them up is one sociopathic way of spreading your genes. It is also a good way to spread stds, get harpooned and reeled in to family court for child support and have a pretty good chance that your kid will grow up with only a single mom as parent. As often discussed on this blog, kids growing up with a single mom tend to be more criminal, lower educated etc. Finally, I care too much for my potential offspring to have them raised by a single mom who lets guys she just met fuck her without protection. Not the role model I have in mind.

        I much prefer the future parents who will go through all the tests at the fertility clinic, shell out 100s of dollars to get inseminated and then joyfully raise my spawn while carrying the full financial burden, which is more than likely to include excellent medical care and top rate education.

        Actually, I am quite glad that most guys here worry more about the opinion of some nerds on a blog than actually plan out their financial legacy. It means less competition for me when I move to the US next year.


  41. “deranged feminist”. I love this site.


  42. If you’re a believer in evolutionary biology/psychology, I am confused as to how you can argue that sex itself, and not procreation, would be the primary directive.

    Imagine that the assertion that “having kids is the defining feature, and motivating impulse, of the alpha male” is indeed true. Your thought experiment concludes that creating a legacy through sex with your wives is always preferred to creating a legacy through a sperm bank and, thus, genetic legacy can’t possibly be the primary endpoint for alpha males.

    Couldn’t that be explained by the fact that sperm banks are a very recent addition to human civilization, and the only way to successfully “spread your seed” in the past was through sex? Maybe sperm banks just haven’t been around long enough for men to have “evolved” to derive pleasure from masturbating into a cup to artificially inseminate women.

    One objection to that could be that you can ensure “high quality” offspring by selecting attractive women as your mating partners, but you can’t be certain which women select your sperm from the bank.


    • The sperm donor doesn’t know what kind of degenerate women are buying his sperm to combine their DNA with his.


      • That is what I am saying – that the motivating impulse of the alpha male is to have children. Not just a large number of degenerate children, but the highest genetic quality children possible. Thus, sex will always be preferred to sperm bank donations because there’s more control. That doesn’t mean that sex is the defining feature.


      • “the motivating impulse of the alpha male is to have children. Not just a large number of degenerate children, but the highest genetic quality children possible.”

        Exactly, it’s about having quality children, not quantity where you can’t even raise them properly and turn them into winners. Who wants to have loser kids?

        That’s why I don’t understand the anti-birth control crowd. What’s worse, delinquent kids that turn out criminals, or having no kids? By that rationalization even abortion looks better.


      • Or if its even being used?

        Cecil Byran Jacobson (born October 2, 1936 in Salt Lake City, Utah) is a former fertility doctor who used his own sperm to impregnate his patients, without informing them.

        During the course of the criminal investigation, another type of fraud came to light. For a variety of reasons, some patients had arranged to be artificially inseminated with sperm provided by screened, anonymous donors arranged by Jacobson. In order to preserve the anonymity of the donors, Jacobson explained, he identified them in records using code numbers; only Jacobson was to know their true identities. Investigators found no evidence that any donor program actually existed. Some of Jacobson’s patients who had conceived through donor insemination agreed to genetic testing. At least seven instances were identified in which Jacobson was the biological father of the patients’ children, including one patient who was supposed to have been inseminated with sperm provided by her husband. DNA tests linked Jacobson to at least 15 such children, and it has been suspected that he fathered as many as 75 children by impregnating patients with his own sperm.[3]


      • A.M.O.C. Alpha Male of the Century.

        Of the Millennium if he was black, gaming all the new moms into believing their Nobel Prize winning donors were of African descent.


      • Jacobson was a jew.

        The goal should be to produce many beautiful, healthy Aryan children with a beautiful woman (or two or three, since most men seem to be never be satisfied with one).


      • A lowercase jew? That’s harsh. You even want to demote their noun status from proper? What did the Christkillers ever do to deserve that? (Besides the whole deicide thing.)


      • It’s that persistent hegemony discourse of theirs that bothers me…

        That, and the Titanic.


      • And the degenerate women buying the sperm probably don’t understand that one of the traits they are getting is a gene for not giving a damn about their offspring.

        Only certain kinds of men have no problem casting their seed to the wind and not giving a fuck; whats that word you guys use to describe them?

        Oh yeah,



    • on December 19, 2012 at 7:02 am Hugh G. Rection

      I’m wondering, what kind of thoughts go through your mind when you are looking at a woman. Do you think about all the ways you could defile her or do you think about what your children will look like? I think that should pretty much cover the biological imperative.


      • if that question is directed at me, I’m a woman, so I can’t really answer.

        There is a difference between consicous and subconscious thought and drives. You are conscious of the woman’s hotness, but you aren’t conscious of the fact that your genes are directing you to perform behaviors to increase your reproductive fitness. Why ARE you thinking of all of the ways that you can defile her? Because her phenotype (her hotness) indicates that she might have good genetics and might produce you a high quality baby. Just because you aren’t consicously thinking about your future children when you’re having sex with her doesn’t mean that reproduction not the primary biological imperative.


  43. on December 18, 2012 at 7:20 pm Marlo Stanfield

    Bedding a 9 is bedder than bedding an 8.5 because the hypothetical spawn would do bedder.

    Seriously 9>8.5 only because the resulting kids would have a greater chance at landing their own alpha/nein. Und so weiter.

    Going to a sperm bank is basically the same as going to a glory hole, just more depressing.

    [Heartiste: Just be careful not to turn into a bed wedder.]


  44. on December 18, 2012 at 5:30 pm The Man Who Was . . .

    Evolution has designed men to pursue it because it enhances their reproductive fitness.

    No, that is only part of the reason men have pursued it.

    [CH: The reason men pursue it is because it feels good to win. But underneath the veneer of good feelings his genes are rejoicing that their chance to extend their lifespan into the future has increased.]

    You are neglecting its survival value, for both men and their offspring.

    [It’s implied. You can’t fuck without first breathing.]

    That’s telling.

    Really, just face up to the fact that you are not representative of the male sex and that you don’t have access to the average male psyche through introspection.

    [If you insist…]


  45. God, what an asocial sperg Heartist is:

    1 Wanting to have kids makes you a “hater.” Right.

    [Heartiste: No. Wanting to claim that men who do well with women but don’t have kids are not alpha males makes you an idiot. And a person with low reading comprehension skills.]

    2. Since you could have them after anonymous sex versus sperm bank; it means sex is the only motivator.

    [Try to stay focused on the relevant issue.]

    What about the social pleasure of knowing your kids, dimwit?

    [Point to anything I wrote where I said that there is no such thing as pleasure derived from enjoying the company of one’s kids.
    And then shoot yourself in the labia.]


    • Pointy should change his name to Mr obtuseface


      • Heartsy should bust pointyphiz’s chops more… not merely when he, heartsy, is the target of this yiddler’s inanities.


    • Wanting to claim that men who do well with women but don’t have kids are not alpha males makes you an idiot. And a person with low reading comprehension skills.

      You want to talk about reading comprehension? We don’t claim that those who “don’t have kids are not alpha males.” We claim that having kids is a reliable if circumstantial indicator, and we claim that the desire to not have kids is preposterous as a defining trait of alpha, and more likely your own (suddenly doubt-filled?) preference projected onto the alpha-male blueprint for no clear reason.



      • on December 20, 2012 at 1:05 pm Hugh G. Rection

        You see “alpha” as a value judgement, and as you disapprove of the lifestyle pursued by many here you just argue the definition.

        Having children is not a reliable indicator of being alpha, it’s only a reliable indicator of having had sex (well there is this one case in the bible…), which is something most people achieve in their life. Reproduction is again something many men achieve, and so your indicator would apply to a very large population which makes it not a particularly reliable indicator by any standard.


      • Do you know what “circumstantial” means?

        Your use of the term “value judgment” marks you as a shallow, regurgitating, relativist dupe, and I’m not in the business of disabusing the handicaps of someone who is fundamentally disoriented about first principles.

        You think I’m the one confusing my “lifestyle” judgments with the definition of alpha? Who told you that alpha is synonymous with sexual conquest? And did he do more than just assert it despite its simplification and/or contradiction of longtime ethological standards? Did you do anything other than swallow that assertion?

        Of all the definitions of alpha, CH’s is one of the more misleadingly idiosyncratic, and not just because of its narrow construction. The definition was backward-engineered from a project to imitate alpha signals in order to manipulate the one quality of alphatude they were interested in: the ability to effortlessly attract high-quality women. They are only interested in zesting some flakes of rind from this orange, wanting nothing to do with the substantial part of the fruit.

        Only a dull evolutionist would consider gamete combination significant in the definition of a cultural type. No shit having kids is easy. But fathering and raising children pushes otherwise solitary men into an opportunity for leadership — i.e., as head of household — which encourages alphatude out of sheer practicality. You don’t get this status by simply knocking up a fat chick and retiring to the barcalounger for the next two decades. Nor can you achieve it by jacking off into a beaker. You get it by leading human beings through their formation into adults.

        Obviously you have no capacity to converse about this, as your narrow study focuses exclusively on a question-begging definition of alpha. Whatever the fuck ever, coolbro. But don’t present tautologies as wisdom that contradicts a subject you proudly avoid knowing a single thing about. What spurred my response was CH’s absurd declaration that alphas demonstrate alphatude by how unreproductively they fuck, and that’s, at best, irrelevant to the definition. At worst, it’s the confusion of personal preference for a categorical imperative.



  46. Seeing ones offspring turn into young adults with widely recognized, astronomical SMV is kinda nice.
    I think the Middletons are experiencing some good vibes these days, all things considered.


  47. Agree with your post, CH, with one modifier. Leaving one’s legacy as a man (disclaimer: not a personal goal) involves, I think, two different aspects: 1) genetic legacy, 2) personal legacy. The personal legacy can only be transmitted through raising one’s offspring and imprinting thereupon one’s life’s lessons and experience. For that reason, your binary scenario might be well served to include a third option of the man who pumps out many kids with one or several women, and then actually raises them in order to increase the probability of achieving solid personal imprint on the kids. It’s obvious watching my friends with children that this is a huge reason that they love their kids and are willing to suffer the negatives of marriage. Those friends range from upper betas to full blown alphas. Again, not my view, but also, it seems, not a minority view.


    • “The personal legacy can only be transmitted through raising one’s offspring and imprinting thereupon one’s life’s lessons and experience.”

      I actually consider the raising/teaching of a kid to be more important than just dumping my genes in a vag somewhere. From the PUA community I’ve seen and been a part of, time and time again, helping guys fix themselves up and setting them on a path where their lives become awesome.

      But 1) I don’t want to raise a kid for a looooong time and 2) society has made doing this without tying yourself down to one woman for the rest of your life not impossible, but a lot more trouble than I feel like it’s worth right now. In that regard something like a Big Brother program is actually appealing, but as the MRA guys know, the shit I would teach the kid, if whoever runs Big Brother found out, would be considered crazy MRA brainwashing and the PUA stuff, regardless of it’s actual content, would sound to feminist-types like I was teaching him to be a rapist lol Plus these days we live in a culture where every man who willingly spends time around young males is viewed as a pedophile So I know that would all blow up in my face lol

      This is part of why I help out other guys online (here and on PUA boards), even if it’s all annonymous. I wrote up some Field Report analyses for Scray here this week. It’s an hour or so of my time and not a big deal to me because I like discussing/teaching guys about social dynamics so I actually consider posting here part of my hobby-time. And maybe he’s going to decide to stop going out tomorrow and just become a hermit recluse and end up as the next King A.

      But maybe he’s going to read that shit I wrote and go “wow, I think I’m starting to understand this, and I like that it makes sense, so I’m excited to go out and keep gaining experience and learning to improve this skill-set because I don’t feel like I’m clutching at random straws with no idea what I’m doing anymore!” and start himself down a path where, 5 years from now when he’s gone on to do whatever he does with his life, he can’t wipe the grin off his face because his life has turned into something he couldn’t even IMAGINE it could turn into when he was writing those Field Reports and he’ll think back and go “Man, I’m sure glad I ran into that YaReally fellow”. I know this is possible because I did it with my own life and I’ve watched other guys achieving it alongside me.

      Sure, I haven’t popped out a kid myself yet. But I know that over the years I’ve helped other men achieve happiness, satisfaction, confidence, a love for women, and a generally positive outlook on life, and those men will pop out kids that they pass this stuff on to if I don’t.

      Same time I totally admit there’s a weirdly illogical fear of dying without my genes getting passed on that is totally 100% instinctual because I have absolutely no logical reasons for it but it makes me wince to think I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and my genes would stop here. So in a way donating to a sperm back is more of a fail-safe back-up to pass on my genes, rather than a high priority goal.

      It’s not an issue of not being ABLE to get a chick preggers. Like wtf line of thinking is that, that us “metrosexual butterfly chasers” CAN’T just not put a little piece of rubber on with one of the girls we’re fucking? lol Hell, even if I was on my death-bed tomorrow I’d probably pull off banging my nurse.

      It’s more a matter of “what’s the smartest method to go about reproducing and raising the next generation of men, that doesn’t involve fucking myself in the face with a $30,000 wedding or child-support after a divorce?” lol If I found out I had cancer and only had a year to live I would go raw-dog it with a ton of chicks, but if I’m going to live to be Greg’s age, there are long-term consequences of popping out babies to consider.


      • “but if I’m going to live to be Greg’s age, there are long-term consequences of popping out babies to consider.”

        LOL! Couldn’t pass it up, eh?


      • CASH ME, CUNT PUSSY!!!

        /jes’ playin’ whicha, girl 😉


      • Heh, heh… don’t make the night darker than it already is… I can still keep up with the majority of thirty-year-olds that I encounter, physically.

        And I’ve yet to see a Social Security check… nor a grandchild.

        Although I do admit I’m starting to get phone calls about cemetery plots. 😡


      • I can certainly appreciate your view, minus the swipe at King A. (Well-meaning men launching snark at other well-meaning men with whom they disagree, does not move us forward.) Ya, I hope you get this by now: I get where you’re coming from, and while I don’t agree fully with your views, I’m of the opinion that you should have at them; just transmute your attacks on those with whom you disagree into a more civil dialogue. Then we can all just, well, have a dialogue.


      • “Well-meaning men launching snark at other well-meaning men with whom they disagree”

        lol King A is a boy, not a man.


      • No worries, avd. Kids will snigger and snark when their daddy’s away. It’s just what they do, they can hardly help it. They play at rebelliousness from a safe distance, practicing for the real thing.



    • on December 20, 2012 at 1:15 pm Hugh G. Rection

      You can probably leave a bigger legacy if you focus all your effort on it without the distraction of children. Take Nikola Tesla for example, his output was astonishing but he lived in celibacy (though popular with women it appears). A lot of the everyday items we use are based on things he came up with originally. That’s a legacy.


  48. I still don’t think you can argue that having kids ISN’T the motivating impulse of the alpha male. Maybe the biological directive isn’t simply to have a large number of low genetic quality children; maybe the directive is to balance quality vs. quantity. Thus, when it comes to methods for spreading their seed, men will always prefer sex compared to sperm bank donations because men have more control over the “genetic fitness” of the eggs that they’re fertilizing.


  49. Something of a tangent(since Heartiste brought up sperm donation): if any of my green-eyed brothers who are 6’0″+, under 32, and don’t have any genetic defects are reading this, drop by your local sperm bank. Our swimmers are like gold to them.


  50. Pendtangle – 1969 “Once I had a Sweetheart but now I have none, ” The face of a Neanderthal Child that was murdered 50,000 years ago.
    My people have VERY long memories.


  51. on December 18, 2012 at 9:47 pm Full-Fledged Fiasco

    A male feminist in 1916: What Women know about Men.



  52. we are a genes way of reproducing itself.

    women act like they do and men act like they do because their genes “make” them do so, so that the genes can multiply.

    examples. genes make you beautiful. genes make you horny. this site is full of examples of what genes “make” men and women do – all so that genes reproduce themselves.

    this post doesnt stop there though does it.

    once multiplied or reproduced, is there not more to do? the baby is out, but is that it?

    could it be that genes also, via various means, “bond” the man to the woman? make him want to be with her and her him?

    does the baby ONLY need a mother and no father? is that the best for the baby? is that the best for the gene that wanted to reproduce itself. reproduction and then motherly care ONLY? is that all a father is for? genetic donation?

    i think there’s a case to be argued, per by this post, that genes make men want to have sex, not just donate. that sex is more than just a motivation for delivery but a motivation for staying with the woman. also, and more importantly, that there are more things than just sex that a gene takes control of to the ends of making the man want to stay with the woman.

    just thinking out loud. and im sick. and on cold medicine. critique if you may, nicely.

    really enjoy this site btw.


    • ha, did you just read The Selfish Gene?

      so, are you saying that there is a biological drive to not just spread your genetic information, but also to ensure that your genes are properly cared for, so the vessel holding your genetic information (aka your baby) will successfully grow up and mate and once again spread your genes? and sex (and bond mating) increases your (and your baby’s future) genetic fitness? makes sense to me


      • I read that men release the bonding hormone after they ejaculate. Increases the likelihood that he will stay with the woman to raise the child rather than run off. Also probably why women want to cuddle after sex – human skin-to-skin contact also releases bonding hormones.


      • It’s in the woman’s interest to do her best to make the man monogamous to her, since we aren’t naturally that way.


      • It’s women that have the bonding hormone. It’s called oxytocin. That’s why it’s hard for a woman to leave a man she’s fucking, but a man has no problems in leaving her for greener pastures.

        That’s one of the reasons casual sex hurts women.


      • Men also release oxytocin after ejaculating.

        [Heartiste: I release mine as a fine spray mist.]


      • Not on the same level of men. It gives men the upper hand, yet again. Women will never be able to beat men in that game. So when women say they use men for sex, they are in deep delusional denial.

        The secrete for women is to navigate within the facts, not try to change them so that they can live an imaginary existence that doesn’t exist.


      • Well-spoken, NL. Internet Beer’s on me.


    • You mistake the medium fror the motive.


  53. OT but any odds on some Italian Gianpaolo’ing Silvio?


  54. John Lennon.. Adam Lanza, and , Albert Fucking .
    Einstein, and RUM has all
    this iin common ./.. … …


  55. Seeing her smera


  56. this stupid reply black hole just ate my greatest comment ever.


    • And the patriarchy strikes again.


    • Actually, unfortunately, I have to side with the blog author. I mean, look if you let yourself be a reproductive dead end, your kind will eventually die out, but personally, I just can’t bear the idea of having kids now that I am definitely old enough to have them.

      The idea of giving up freedom to go whereveer whenever is not appealing to me. the idea of spending that much time and effort into someone else sucks so hard. All that energy i could be spending on myself. God, I just can’t do it right now. Maybe never. I’m going to get my eggs frozen. I will buy myself some time so I can think about this some more. I hate myself kind of for feeling that way. Goes against my female instincts.


      • >I just can’t bear the idea of having kids now that I am definitely old enough to have them.

        Are you sure about that, i mean it maybe late for you to have any at all.

        >The idea of giving up freedom to go whereveer whenever is not appealing to me.

        I am with you on that, Yes the idea of giving up once freedom, money, house, mental and physical to a slimy bitch and an unknown bastard is appealing to me too.

        >God, I just can’t do it right now. Maybe never.

        You can always try it after 50, atleast thats what western women today are doing. But i liked the NEVER part, Yep stick to it, we need less and less feminist in this world as possible. Extinct yourself and maybe civilization will prevail.

        >I’m going to get my eggs frozen.

        Do you even have eggs? I though all feminist have laid their eggs in protest of patriarchy, I doubt those eggs are dead or infested with the feminist bullshit.

        >I will buy myself some time so I can think about this some more. I hate myself kind of for feeling that way. Goes against my female instincts.

        Well if you take my advice, DON’T DO IT, it’s not worth it, look at this example, if you give birth to a girl, she will grow up feeling oppressed, joins school and with all that gender social constructing, she might feel that she is being robbed of her female masculinity and she might feel hatred for ALL the men, after she joins college, she might enroll herself in a “women studies” or “queer studies” (There isn’t any Hetero or Men Studies class SO SHUT UP) class and feel that men are her enemies and may become a separatist and demand ALL men be killed, Now will that be good for society and civilization I THINK NOT. Now lets reverse the gender, imagine you give birth to a boy, in his early days you will be filled with raged THAT WHY DIDN’T YOU BIRTHED A GIRL, and with that rage growing as time passed, you will teach your son that ALL men are rapist and ALL men are oppressors, You will not let him have an education (Like Hanna Rosin), you will fill him with thoughts of inferiority and would hold him accountable for any bad things happening to you, and in that aspect ONE DAY HE MIGHT TURN INTO ANOTHER ADAM LANZA and shoot you in the head with a shotgun, WHATS THEN?.

        So you see its better that FEMINIST don’t breed and go away with the flow. Female instincts? What are those? i thought feminist said that female are more nurturing and loving kind I NEVER KNEW they have such hatred for male and children. Yeeks i am sorry for this long rant 😛


      • That’s what my wife said.
        Now that I more or less forced her into it, I get repeated and heartfelt “thankyous” from her now. We don’t travel as much, but she’s sixty times happier than she used to be. It has its flaws, and say what you like, but patriarchy *works.*

        Kids make GREAT pets, and are loads of fun. There’s no “good time” to have ’em, but you’re missing out if you don’t.


      • Right. You can’t really talk to your cat or dog. Or even parrot.


      • When I was 17 I was all set up to go to college as my parents intended. I picked the college because it was close to home and a bunch of my friends were going there too. I had been dating the man who is now my husband for a little while and I really loved him but I thought he didn’t see me as being a serious relationship. He cheated on me multiple times and it was a never ending drama fest of arguments and backstabbing with other girls who were supposed to be my “friends.” And this man had never even told me he loved me before. When I told him I loved him he told me “you’re made of good stuff” lol. He invited me over and said he wanted to talk to me about something. Out of nowhere, I could have never seen it coming because I thought he was just using me, he told me that he loved me and thought that I would make a good wife for him. No engagement ring or anything. But he wanted me to choose between going to college or moving in with him. I canceled all my college plans and moved in with him and got married a few days after my 18th birthday. I had never really even thought about children, and never realized how much I love children until I was carrying my own. Feministtx I think it will happen to you when you meet the right man that knows how to pull on your heartstrings. My story doesn’t really sound romantic to anyone but myself probably though.


      • … He cheated on me multiple times and it was a never ending drama fest of arguments and backstabbing with other girls who were supposed to be my “friends.”

        would you be kind enough to explain why – if he cheated on you multiple times – you still wanted to be with him? marry him? give up everything for him?

        I would really like to understand


      • I thought I could change him. As the cliche goes.


      • My boyfriend has tried to convince me to have his kid so many times over the last few years. And I can’t say I find fault in his genes. I just am not ready to grow up myself. It’s ridiculous and unnatural but it is what has become of me.


      • I know women who *didn’t* have the abortion even though starvation was an ACTUAL possibility. Life changed; things turned around. The kid’s 11 now and made of awesome.

        Give in. Have some tits (that’s what they’re there for, after all) and chick up. You’ll be very, very glad you did.
        You’ll thank yourself. And if you’re like my wife who was the EXACT SAME WAY, you’ll probably thank him, too.


      • It might be him though. I want to be with him now but probably not for the duration of anyone’s childhood.

        He’s much older than me (he’s 57 and i am 30). I don’t like the idea of my child having a father dangerously close to serious physical demise or death. He does already have children in their 20s, so he does not actually need me to experience fatherhood.


      • That gal I told you about?
        With a gal forty years her senior.
        They have an awesome boy together.

        Parallels are getting eerie here.
        Medicine is a ton better than it used to be. He’ll be old when the kid’s in college, but it’s very unlikely he’ll be dead. And the last bit about “experiencing” fatherhood… it sure SOUNDS like he wants to experience it with you. Sanity check: are these real objections, or fear talking?


      • (read “with a GUY forty years her senior)


  57. “At least I was a major alpha and got tons of ass” is a fitting tombstone for a Dodo bird or wooly mammoth. Existence is alpha. Extinction is beta, always. Alpha cannot, by definition, lead to extinction, or else you’re defining it with some bullshit social status in mind that doesn’t matter a few generations down the road.


  58. Well, it isn’t just about being alpha. Having kids isn’t so bad. It’s actually pretty fun sometimes. Personally, I’d rather have one of my own than ten sperm donated kids with my DNA being raised by embittered lesbians.

    A few kids can do a man good. Even gives you a bit of Game. After dealing with two-year-olds having tantrums, shit tests just roll off your back like water. Being a real “daddy” gives you some cred, believe it or not. Of course, a guy without kids can easily make up for it and then some with the extra time and energy, but if you’re a daddy you don’t have to work quite so hard to get female attention. Especially if you’ve got good-looking kids; daughters in particular. Not sure why, but when you’ve got a devoted, pretty daughter, you’re instantly “qualified.”

    I just buy my daughter a little girls’ comic/coloring book, take her to a hipster café and order a coffee for me and a hot chocolate for her, and suddenly we’re the center of attention. She loves it, too. Just cracks me up. The boy, of course, prefers going to the Sound for some fishing, and that’s fun, too. It’s just good times all around.


  59. About this spreading your genes thing. Geez. Are you really that enthused over chemical evolution? You know that in a few generations the genes become really scrambled. We also know that most genes are shared by all humans. We also know that all species, with rare exceptions, become extinct. In the course of time, the human race will cease to exist. At which point, all those gene spreading alpha males will have their genes go poof. But, not to worry, other species also share our genes, or have very similar genes.

    The gene, not the species, is the real unit of evolution. Genes are immortal, really. They may mutate, become less common, but I doubt they really ever die out. Similar genes occur across phyla. Do you care if your version of the hemoglobin gene is slightly more prevalent in 100,000 years than it is today? I doubt it.

    Once you understand that life is absurd, you can enjoy your life much more.


  60. Robert A. Heinlein. If the universe has any purpose more important than topping a woman you love and making a baby with her hearty help, I’ve never heard of it


  61. ….Mr Heartiste, I’d like to have your kid. It would be great. Best of all, I’d get a monthly child support payment from you. No, that’s wrong actually. The real best of all would be I’d get to fuck you again and again until you filled me up with your baby. Hmmm.

    [Heartiste: Maya protracted her claws.]


  62. And, yet, would any of you anti-game trad-cons call this man an alpha male?

    Without accepting the tendentious labels, I’ll answer that. No, he’s not an alpha male. But he is the most minutely detailed and floridly described straw male I’ve ever seen put down range of a .50 cal.

    We aren’t talking about those déclassé breeders you nodded in sorrowful recognition at while watching Idiocracy. We are talking about alpha males whose influence is so large that, for one thing, it reverberates through the generations, coursing through the blood of many who are directed by his example even after death.

    Is that man superior to a metrosexual chasing the butterflies of fleeting sexual moments preserved only in his memory, which will ultimately be consigned to oblivion? Yes. This is factoring in the assumption that his nights at the disco were so historically epic, bards will write blog entries about it for years.

    Is that same sterile metrosexual superior to a fecund father of nine from Idaho? Who would win a cage match to the death, Wolverine or the Incredible Hulk?

    Nobody cares. It’s a hobbyhorse of yours that has nothing to do with the definition of alpha.



  63. So you are suggesting that men who keep beautiful women interested in spawning a brood while simultaneously banging on the side is a true test of apex alpha. Double concur. When you have a hard time deciding when a certain guy has reached his prime, alpha.


  64. On the fence. Alpha is a role and the characteristics we label alpha come naturally to anyone who assumes it. Sticking feathers up your ass doesn’t make you a chicken and becoming an aloof asshole in your basement doesn’t make you alpha. You become that way when others confirm it.

    There is no greater dominance relationship than being a girl’s father. You can mimic this relationship with a wife, you can mimic it with a harem, but the experiment is irrelevant because the physical act of procreating has nothing to do with it. Fatherhood is the pinnacle of alphadom, but it is neither required nor limited to offspring.

    But it is the closest 99% of men could ever get.


  65. Heartiste, do you have any desire for children? Any regret that you have never fathered any? (to my knowledge, you have not).


    • But you seek to socialize the costs to all men and privatize the benefits of children for yourself. You advocate a raw deal for any potential father. Men with foresight would be reluctant to play ball on those terms.


      • What are you talking about? As if I have the power to reorient social policy. There are a lot of good reasons why a man should not want me as the mother of his children. Yet i have never lacked for men who saw such potential in me.


  66. A Patriarch has children. By definition.

    [Heartiste: What about a childless president? Or a tribal shaman with no children?]

    A patriarch is always an alpha, but an alpha is not always a patriarch.

    [Incorrect. A patriarch may or may not be an alpha, and an alpha may or may not be a patriarch.]


    • I would agree with this assesment of things but the only thing that allows non alphas to be patriarchs is the welfare state, under a natural or at least a more normal state of affairs an alpha would be a patriarch and a patriarch would be an alpha.


  67. I just want to blow stuff-up. People and their body parts… interestuing, but not so important.,


  68. If your so-called alpha is spending his life sleeping around without producing any children, then his genetic days are numbered.

    He’s weeding himself out of existence, while the world is being taken over by “primitive” pig-humans who are dumb (or smart?) enough to make babies.

    Like a drug addict to sex, the alpha is killing himself slowly.


  69. Regarding the Update, I think it’s kind of mean to use King A as your example guy. Think of how he’ll feel when he reads it.


  70. ‘A clarifying example is needed to focus minds. Picture a fat, acne-ridden, manboobed, greasy, bald, boring, stupid, charmless underprole man who manages to capture the elephantine devotion of a morbidly obese underprole woman. They marry, and, owing to their religious beliefs (or stupidity) neither one uses birth control. Over time, she grunts out twenty of his fat babies (yeah, I know, hard to believe, but this hypothetical is not so far removed from our current idiocratic reality). This man has certainly made his mark on the world. His tribe is impressive, larger than the families built by some sultans and certainly larger than that of most accomplished Western men.’

    But this example is not his accomplishment, It is a figment of the welfare state. Such a state of affairs could not exist in the natural order of things because such an inept man could not hope to command the resources that would be needed to sustain such a large brood.

    The mark of an alpha male when it comes to his children IMO is not only must he reproduce so his genes are passed to the next generation but he uses his power to give his children the advantages they need to pass his genes on and on for many generations to come. If an alpha male is not a good father his children will for the most part be the fat, acne-ridden, manboobed, greasy, bald, boring, stupid, charmless underprole man tha tyou use in your example and as such his genes would get weeded out of the evolutionary process which would make him far less than alpha.


    • FYI To me being alpha means winning at evolution, everything else is just gravy.


      • But he has won at evolution by being perfectly adapted to his environment.

        When the world crashes and burns, his descendents will drive the deserts looting tanker trucks and using force to guarantee their survival in THAT environment…..


      • “Winning at evolution” is as dumb a definition of alpha/the meaning of life/the summum bonum as CH’s barren-vagina sweepstakes. It’s no wonder he selects easily-dismissed arguments like yours to challenge while pretending the more sophisticated and superior explanations either 1) simply do not exist, or 2) reflect “trad-con hate.”

        (Take note whenever an ideologue employs the “h” word. It is the go-to leftist-feminist escape hatch when at the limits of their rhetoric and ratiocination. Why oh why must you h8???)



      • We have several limp-minded folks right here at the chateau who toss the h-word around like a frisbee, thinking it’s a weapon… with about as much effectiveness.

        And their chieftain is…


      • Alphie-who-loves-to-snipe!


      • Or is it cuntlilly?


      • C’mon, give us a hint. Does it rhyme with “THWACK ME, MOTHAFUCKA”?


      • OK, Maybe i could have phrased it better, what I mean by winning at evolution is to create a substantial intergenerational increase in the quality of life for your descendants. That IMO is true alphaness and in practice that means two things

        1) An alpha male has to effectively amass power.

        2)An alpha male has to build a framework to pass that power on through the generations.

        Once that has been achived it means the alpha male’s offspring even if they are not alpha themselves will have all the trappings of the alpha lifestyle the primary benefit of that will be the best pick of mates to pass on the family genes.

        As someone posted eariler being a patriarch in the era of the welfare state does not make you alpha but if you are not a patriarch you are not alpha. Alpha is leaving a legacy everything else is a symptom of that, including success with women.


    • Good response.
      I think Heartiste’s straw-man is easy to mistake for the real argument, because parental investment – and thus acquiring the resources to be so invested – is so engrained in traditional Western morals that it often remains an assumed, unstated premise of the “kids=success” argument.

      Relatedly, because of that assumption of acquiring and investing resources, tradcons underestimate the welfare state’s enablement of your hurtling-towards-idiocracy example.

      That’s why we talk about the different kinds of selection, after all, and why Darwin really keeps score by grandkids.


  71. All in all I’ll take option number 3 – having sex with other men’s wives so they are responsible for raising the rug rats… Wait – I’ve already done that when I was younger… So, what was the question again? These days I spend my days with women a lot younger than I am, because they don’t want kids and neither do I – although I like practicing in every position, and setting that I can…

    As to being alpha – I couldn’t care less, my goal is to have sex with women I find attractive – they are willing, and that is all that matters to me. You can call me whatever – and I have been. None of it matters as long as I get what I want since that is what matters to me.


  72. It’s somewhat alpha to seduce some stupid SWPL chick by gaming her into spreading her legs, but it’s ALPHA to turn a SWPL chick into a love slave fevering to bear your alphalings and support them, and you, and the patriarchy, for life, until she throws herself on your funeral pyre because she can’t live without you.


  73. I’m somewhat shocked by the simplistic and fallacious reasoning of this post. All heartiste has demonstrated with his hypotheticals is that all things being equal, a man would prefer to have sex with a hot girl than to masturbate into a container, or to sleep with a war pig. Nothing in his hypothetical gets to the issue of offspring. No one who believes that reproductive success is a factor in “alpha-ness” would say that they’d rather sleep with an ugly girl or provide a sperm sample at a clinic than inseminate a hot girl if it leads to the same result.

    A better hypothetical would be to choose between the reproductively successful sperm donor and war pig husband, and a man who sleeps with hot, but sterile, women. As sad and perhaps unfair as it is, I have seen men leave attractive women who were unable to have children to pursue relationships with women who were fertile. The other huge issue that is avoided by the author is the ability to raise your offspring. While I might prefer to bang sterile hot women to anonymously inseminating thousands through a sperm bank, I would probably choose the sperm bank if it included raising and knowing my children from birth, and there was no chance I could have that opportunity otherwise.

    The post also muddles the definition of alpha between the specific (a man who women are sexually attracted to) and the general (a variety of traits, behaviors and beliefs that comprise a successful man across a broad spectrum of behaviors, including work, family, friends and most importantly attractive females.) This is one of my nagging complaints with the philosophy of this blog. I believe it needs to be addressed. Almost all of the posts discuss general alpha traits and ways of thinking, but then in posts like these, the author reverts to the specific and simplistic definition to suit his purposes.

    Certainly reproduction is not the ONLY criteria in alpha-ness. But quantity of female lovers is also not the exclusive measure, nor quality of the female lover(s). I believe you have to take a comprehensive view of sexuality. The ability of to reproduce with reproductively fit (hot) females (number of available women willing to carry your child) is a determination of alphaness. Its not just accomplishing the sexual act. An alpha is one that can make a woman give her ALL to him, and that “all” is her willingness to carry and deliver his child.


    • Hear, hear. Great prosecutorial summation.


    • Seconded.


    • on December 19, 2012 at 6:07 pm The Man Who Was . . .

      Nice summary, Sidewinder. The confusion between the two meanings of alpha causes no end of stupidity. It is legitimate to use alpha in both the general or traditional social status sense, and in the specific or sexual attractiveness sense, but they aren’t the same thing.

      One might quibble about whether the ability to attract beautiful women is even the most important characteristic of the high social status or general definition of alpha, but no one doubts it is a very important part. If you can’t attract a decent looking mate, your social status takes a sizeable hit, and, even if you can do nothing else, being able to attract a beautiful woman will add something to your status.


  74. Define a human being not as a single body contained within his epidermis that is born and dies within a 74-year span, but rather as a continuum of life from your earliest ancestor to your last living descendant, and you see these things differently.

    The sterile man, alpha or otherwise, is the death-end of an ancient singular human life.


  75. My high school graduating class in the late 80s produced a number of prolific, accomplished men. Politics, money, science, music. I’m still friends with a number of them, and keep in touch with others on Facebook.

    I notices that guys whom I respect and who are all-around awesome — and unmistakable alpha — but never had any children, I kind of feel sorry for them. The alphas, that is, who never lacked for quality women willing to give them that. There is a sadness about a man who is aware on some level that his body is on an irreversible decline and its lights-out after that, forever.

    [Heariste: That’s a trick of consciousness, for the fact is the body of the man who procreates is also on an irreversible decline and it’s lights out after that for him as well, with no memory retained whatsoever of the children he will leave behind. The only rational choice, it seems to me, is hedonism. At least from the individual’s perspective. (Though some will rightly argue that having kids could be viewed as a hedonistic pursuit, if you are the sort of guy who loves being around psychologically stunted ingrates.)]


  76. Can someone gift me with a link to the reformed incel article everyone’s talking about?


  77. Off topic … I found a really interesting “dating” site, I wonder where they found such good-looking prostitutes (?) … which look like normal girls ( – watch the video)
    Isn’t it fascinating?


  78. Maybe I’m not understanding the last few posts that have talked about fatherhood but I kind of feel that it’s missing the point saying you are less of an alpha just by having kids and choosing to be a parent. Half of the posts on here are about how single moms are destroying the simple bastion of maleness due to their lack of ability to raise proper men, yet you then bash guys who purposely choose to raise/guide their child? Besides having the advantage of raising a proper off spring, they may also have the advantage of someone there to take care of them in the future when their health is no longer so alpha as to be physically able to withstand the effects of aging.

    This is a paradox that seems to have the author flummoxed as he continues to try and clarify himself but can’t quite pull it off.


    • +1

      I’ve got not a damn thing against donation, but you raise your own kids b/c you impress your values on them. That’s why the gun-grabbers lost in the U.S. — they were a bunch of shrieking harridans who were too selfish to have kids, so now they’re permanently outnumbered even in Dem-land.

      Not my phrase, but “the future belongs to those who show up.”


  79. “Say hello to a foreign “escort” services. Does the tour come with a happy ending? 7 minutes ago”

    Haha, NO, it’s not an escort site. They even warn you against girls who try to get your money:

    “It is a first time for me at this site, how secure are travel arrangements? Did any girl get in any kind of trouble?

    Usually it’s other way around – girls try to cheat by uploading fake pictures and asking for the money before the trip. We have never heard about a guy trying to cheat since the start of our site. The thing is – if a guy pays quite a big amount for a membership he is simply looking for a serious deal. Please read the “Travel tips” for further information just in case.”

    LOL … that’s so weird …


  80. Plato, Descartes, Spinoza, Kant, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Locke, Hume, Wittgenstein, Hobbes, Voltaire, Pascal, Kierkegaard.

    Unmarried and childless.


  81. After reading this I am not sure I can look at a piece of bacon again without getting sick.


  82. on December 19, 2012 at 4:18 pm The Man Who Was . . .

    There’s your alpha male, trad-cons.

    There’s your straw man, trad-cons.


    • on December 19, 2012 at 5:56 pm The Man Who Was . . .

      There are whole suite of characteristics which make a man an alpha in the traditional social status sense. Having and raising children is only one such characteristic among many. The ability to have sex with beautiful women is also only one such characteristic among many. But no one has ever claimed that having and raising lots of kids is, on its own, enough to make one an alpha male in this sense. So, positing a man who has no redeeming qualities except raising a brood of children is something of a straw man.


    • Yea, I just saw that. I don’t think anybody here is seriously suggesting that the ability to beget a commercial hog farm marks one as alpha. I’ll say again, however, that having satisfying sex with a 10 that results in her getting knocked up and bearing my child would be more alpha to me than satisfying sex with a 10 that doesn’t result in anything.


  83. Sad but true post. There is no real sexual dimension to being an admirable and virtuous site of multidinous children.

    I’ve been reading Evelyn Waugh’s “Sword of Honor”, essentially a lament for the death of traditional Western values and a bittersweet love letter to Catholisicm. Great novel. Waugh writes like a petulant alpha. He’s been lableded a closet homo but I think he was just really really British. Anyway the novel is a convincing salvo for the conceits of Catholism, yet I can’t shake the feeling that such devotion to stern faith is a cry against the inherent ruthlessness of life as a virtuous male in the face of his increasingly diminishing sexual market value. Feelsbetaman.

    What’s great about this blog is it taps so deep into the heart of darkness that it both tenderizes and hardens the soul to the ugly realities and irrefutable truths. Once you let go of your ego, everything becomes distant and impersonal, rendering one untouchable for life, no matter his position in the sexual market hierarchy. Also, I’m drunk.


  84. Actually, i thought about this and I have a new theory that somewhat sides with the perspective of tradcons, but it is not a tradcon sentiment, it is based on my knowledge of human evolution.

    So, I have read recently, that if a trait has even a 1% advantage towards reproductive fitness, that trait will become ubiquitous in a mating population of humans within 3000 years.

    For a hundred thousand years, the trait that was favored was a combination of alpha males and beta males in a society. Alpha maleness to spread themselves and beta maleness to actually dote on the kids till adulthood. Not that alpha males in practice can’t do this. They just didn’t for all the children they fathered, while beta males did for all children they fathered and this apparently led us to a society where both beta males and alpha males co existed. Not all species are like this. Some of our close primate cousins favor an alpha male that has sole access to a harem of women.

    Suddenly, the system has been shocked with birth contol and now the trait that has repdroductive advantage is low standards for reproduction. No money? who cares. Don’t love her? who cares. She is a whale? who cares.

    In 3000 years, lower standards for reproduction will become ubiquitous in humans.

    Until now, alpha maleness has actually correlated with a form of diverse reproductive success in women. Alpha maleness is such because it was favored by evolution, not because it is inherently alpha male according to some structural law of the universe. As much as it may seem like a deeply rooted instinct, alpha maleness actually is one of the most evolutionarily malleable traits (true, not my opinion)

    3000 years from now ,the pendulum will have shifted and the new alpha maleness will be some other set of traits. 100,000 years from now, the psychological instincts that define alpha maleness could completely change. The alpha male may no longer crave the .7 waist hip ratio or youth. They might actually want 300 lb dykes or something.

    [Heartiste: This has never been the case and it is unlikely to ever be the case as long as sperm is cheap and eggs are expensive, and female fertility correlates to her youth, beauty and hourglass shape. But I’m sure the fatties will squeal with glee over fantasies that their blubbery kind will be desired by men 100,000 years from now.]

    Mr. Heartiste is really the alpha male of yesteryear. Things have suddenly changed and the definition of alpha male is adapting as we speak.

    [Wishful thinking. Though I do think that the widespread availability of cheap and effective birth control is leading us into a world where female hypergamy is fully unleashed, beta males suffer sexual droughts in their teens and 20s, and alpha males get lots of play but not the “benefit” of passing on their alpha male genes in the numbers that would be expected if all their play occurred without the thwarting effect of condoms and pills. Bottom line: the future belongs to religious groups where the women forego decades of useless libtard education and paper pushing careers for family formation at a younger age with established men.]


    • “Bottom line: the future belongs to religious groups where the women forego decades of useless libtard education and paper pushing careers for family formation at a younger age with established men.]”

      Rates of religiosity are declining in a clear trend overall, so hopefully what will happen in the next several centuries is the following:

      1. Despite the fact that the religious procreate more, eventually people who believe in religions will dwindle to a tiny minority.

      2. We will reach a technological state where women can successfully conceive at any age. For that matter, women won’t physically age as badly as they do now either. Though it seems far fetched, in the last 100 years we have invented birth control, in vitro fertilization, egg freezing, sperm freezing. Now 2 women can technically have children and 2 dead people can technically have children. So, i think it will be possible to overcome the barrier of female fertility decline with age in the next century or 2.

      As for 100,000 years from now. Hey, look at female orangutangs. Somehow evolution has made them desirable to the males.


  85. he’s still more alpha than you no matter how you try to rationalize it otherwise. he lives on, you do not. sex is hedonisitc pleasure, reproduction is the creation of life and legacy, whether for better or worse.


    • LOL even you don’t believe that. Anybody with a dick can procreate even if if it’s with some seriously ugly women (i.e Desmond Hatchett)


  86. Pointless to argue semantics unless you simply wish to brush up on debate skills.

    The cad is alpha to women and poison to patriarchy. In the chivalrous cultures of yore the cad was killed or ran out of town. Hard to appear alpha running with your tail between your legs like a cowardly rat. H has spoken of this before.


  87. I love the idea of “belching insouciantly”. Have two more mutually alien words ever been juxtaposed so?


  88. Yo, whorefinder!

    I was at a Chapters book store today purchasing Christmas gifts and in through the door walks an absolutely stunning blonde college age girl arm in arm with a poorly dressed black teen a good few inches shorter than her.

    I just stood in line and silently lolz’d.

    Cause I mean really, why would a nig be in a bookstore? LOLZLZOLZOZL!!!!!


    • on December 20, 2012 at 2:08 pm Hugh G. Rection

      Oh great, more dating advice by women. That’s like a person who’s been operated on a few times training surgeons.


  89. To be alpha is to pass the cosmic shit test known as Civilization. Ted Bundy was alpha, Heartiste is alpha, anyone whose spirit is free to roam above all men-made laws, for good or for bad, are passing the Supreme Shit Test. Repressed obedient niceguys are the soul of Civilization, they are part of the Shit Test, so they aren´t able to pass it. Men who breaks most basic and implicit laws are the cosmic alphas and women are programmed to sexually reward them.


  90. Both option a. and b. provide the chemical release that signifies gene validation. An orgasm inside a female is the same as an orgasm inside my hand. Both provide a shorterm spike in ‘happiness’ due to the same chemical release.
    Anything extra that procreating provides lies in the emotional connection established with the offspring.
    Anything extra that having protected sex with a feminine beauty lies within the enjoyment of the act.


  91. I cannot remember a discussion which gifted me more amusement.

    At the end, I must conclude that there is – yes – a perfect couple to be found in here.

    CH’s discombobulated penis – constantly oscillating radar-like in case a passing pussy gets away unattended- and RappacinnisDaughter’s unhinged vagina – dispensing succor to all and sundry.



  92. Why didnt my comment post


  93. There is a movie called ” idiocracy” picturing this exact scenario you describe in your update. Watch it; if only the omegas reproduce, thats where it ends.

    The thing with kids is not about reproduction in a gene-bank. It is about knowing your kids from day #1 and *** SPENDING TIME WITH THEM *** so they get the chance to learn from your wisdom.

    They wont be a younger form of “you”, ever. But the children you raise will enheritage something from your inner self, from whe way you live your life. Your values and believes.

    That my friend is what I call an alpha legacy.

    If you do not have physical children you did miss something. However you created this blog and over 500 comments on this topic alone are prove, that you indeed already DO have a legacy.