Second Stupidest Anti-Game Meme On The Internet

“Game is just learning how to supplicate to women and be a slave to women’s desires.”

If enjoying the exquisite pleasure of a beautiful woman’s sex and love is supplication and enslavement, then I don’t want to be emancipated.

Certain quarters of the MRA movement have a lot in common with feminists. I wonder if they are aware of the similarities?


  1. That’s what I’ve been saying for over a decade: you treat a woman in a way that best instills her adoration towards you. That means usually doing the exact opposite that love advice columnists recommend.

    I’m not being an asshole to women, I’m proving to them that I stand my ground.

    I spent the evening with my #1 this Saturday. She was getting on my nerves a bit, so I raised my voice slightly and told her to knock it off. She immediately gave me the sad face, and then for the next 2 hours she became much more silent.

    I told her many hours later that I was impressed that she was so quiet (versus her usual over-chatty self), she said “I don’t want to say anything because I’m worried you’ll yell at me again.” I gave her a loving fist to the shoulder lightly, smiled, and said “You’re always such a good girl to me.”

    After her self-inflicted time-out, she couldn’t stop touching me, offered me constant blow-jobs (I don’t like riding the crimson tide) and took care of me once again before I went on my way in the morning.

    Feminists would say that I treated her ill, but in reality I beat her challenge to her test of my masculinity. Any other guy I know would likely ask her “What wrong, baby?” I did the opposite, went on my way, and won the tiny battle her internal army waged against mine.

    Treating a woman right means proving that you’re masculine through actions alone, and that you’re higher status than her.


    • Telling your woman to be quiet and having her obey is an essential masculine skill.


      • And it’s an important feminine-proving-her-guy-masculine trait for her to immediately shit test a guy until her hamster is certain he’s got the masculinity she needs for survival and happiness.

        I think her “quiet time” shit test came from me over-doing my “acts of beta” on her birthday 2 weeks ago. There’s a fine balance — if you introduce random acts of betaness to get the hamster wheel spinning, expect some feedback in the form of renewed shit testing.


      • At first it helps to pinch their lips. At first men sometimes need to escalate all the way up to an arm around her waist and manhandling her out the door.

        After time, the girl gets trained. After time, she internalizes a respect.


    • Hey, random, but does having long hair/a mane get positive responses from women? I think it’s time to change it up from the usual cropped office-drone.


      • Jews hate my long hair (75% of my clients, and confirmed). Ugly women hate it.

        Hot women are 50/50.

        It’s too easy to look metal or Magic:the Gathering. I wear it ponytailed when I ride horses or surf, loose when rockin a suit, covered head in skullcap (think: Leon the Professional) otherwise.

        It does offer IOIs regularly and randomly, but plenty of haters.


      • Great, thanks. I thinned it out and made it all scraggly looking like yours. What do you think: Yours is definitely more wispy though, color me jealous since I’m going for the pathetic martyr look. llzoz.

        Good god people, A.B. Dada and xsplat, the two people you should NOT be taking game advice from.

        -Dada admits he avoids bars and clubs. If you’re taking PUA advice from someone who can’t get the good pussy at a club, move on.
        -Dada admits he only fools around with rural low-status women. That’s barely, and I do mean barely, above xsplat’s domain of ESL Taiwanese teens. Dada is the white trash version of some Latino gang-banger from the ‘burbs of LA telling you ‘tell that bitch to shut up.’ Gee, I wonder why women aren’t flocking to Anaheim looking for dick.

        Psychological profile- blabbermouth neurotic. Also, pathological liar. This fucking guy talks about what he does to hold down long term relationships in the same paragraph he refers to his “The Rotation.” (Who actually does that, btw). You’re a fucking liar and weird. Yeah, I’m calling you out. How many people going somewhere with their lives post their real identity on a PUA website? A: None.

        You’re a one post per thread kind of guy. At best. And even then, what you post is shit. You take your crappy little fly-over state life experiences and then pretend like it applies to all women, or all of game, or somehow black and white truths can be drawn from them. It’s fucking retarded. It’s like me saying:

        Hey guys, here is the best way to use game and get a blowjob. Join the track team your freshman year of high school. Befriend all the girls. Sophomore year, throw a party at the house of the “bad” girl on the team. Bring weed, introduce girl’s track team to getting high. Later that night, when everyone is passing out, start hooking up with the girl closest to you on the couch. Get blowjob under the blanket. That’s how you get blowjobs.

        Maxim: To get a blowjob, get girls high and hook up with them after.

        Oh, and shut the fuck up about your shitty little consulting practice. You may not know, but outside Peoria oddjob consultants are laughed at and given a wider berth than bums and lawyers.

        tldr; A.B. Blablah gets crucified by a jew.


      • I love you.


      • on November 8, 2011 at 9:57 am humansocialdynamics

        Dude, awesome comments below. Leave a comment on my blog and I’ll send u an email, would be very interested to see what you’re like in real life. I’m pretty much as I represent myself.

        Then I’ll spend the next ten weeks fending off trolls for posting this comment.

        Seriously. It’s taken me a week to learn to be less earnest. What the hell is wrong with you people.

        But flame on.


      • on November 7, 2011 at 9:08 pm humansocialdynamics

        Hahaha that was impressive dude. Honestly, I don’t even want to get involved, I’m just here to speculate about the science side of things. But damn.


      • Jesus is:

        1. Jealous
        2. Projecting his own lack of self-worth
        3. Proving he’ll never amount to anything.

        I don’t need drugs to pull hot women. An HB8 when you’re drunk is probably a 5 when you wake up next to her. I like top shelf women, and I’ve earned the right to be selective.

        Don’t feed the trolls.


      • on November 7, 2011 at 11:41 pm humansocialdynamics

        Hey bro, I couldn’t give a fuck what his motivations are or whether you’ve got good qualities. Everybody’s image has holes. He just fucked yours hard. Funniest shit I’ve seen all day.

        You don’t start owning that shit and he’s gonna fisting you by the end of the week. I’m not saying I’m much better at keeping the trolls out, but damn, you got p0wnd.


      • Laugh all you want, but a man with options has nothing to hide behind. Hell, I’ve read and commented on the Chateau with a member of The Rotation laying next to me.

        To the rest… not everyone who likes Game sites is a PUA. 95% of men are wanting LTR but need to understand how to best handle one. To have a successful LTR one must be the master of their lives. That means keeping options open, not living with one-it is, being self-employed, saving capital over frittering it away.

        My dames generally know who else is out there, and why shouldn’t they?

        As for consulting in Peoria…I’ve been on 6 continents this year — provably pulling a solid income, traveling first class more than half the time.

        What do you pull, Jesus? Want to compare D&B ratings? I have 19 years of them filed away. How’s your financial profile?

        Put it out there, or bring it to my face and we’ll se e who is left standing.


      • For your own sake man: You’re qualifying yourself to an annonymous person on the Internet who doesn’t give a shit about your financial profile. The second you started defending yourself and listing your credentials is the second you lost that.

        This is why even with no financial profile I take girls from rich guys who think anyone really cares about that shit lol


      • Sometimes you guys are bitchier than those punk lawyers at Volokh Conspiracy.

        Whatever drives your backbiting, be it insecurity or just untame T, it sure is annoying.

        Except when its funny.


      • It’s the internet, where plump and pastey pimply-faced post-teens with too much time on their hands because they’ve never done anything and never will, can troll from the ‘rent’s basement and pat themselves on the back for ‘successful amogging’. *shrug*


      • Jesus is currently raping men at Occupy Wall Street.


      • I was surprised at how easily amused HSD was until i skimmed his blog
        and caught him gloating about how he rocked a “mission impossible set” (mixed set taller girl?!) and managed to even get his *arm around a chicks waist*! he calls this getting “fairly physical”. like i said: easily amused.

        look jesus, i love a good roasting more than anyone else, but this slander rant is anemic at best. case in point: you think clubs are the pinnacle of pick up. not fashion shows, not day game, not a gym. but a smoke & mirrors club where hair, make-up and lighting can easily turn a 4 into a 7. where mediocre chicks go to get their slut on, amped up by overpriced liquor and loud lady gaga.

        you call him a liar. yawn. *everyone* here is a potential liar/exaggerator. it doesn’t fucking matter whether HSD *actually* managed to get his arm around that chicks waist, what matters is that he has established that with guts and will *anything is possible* as long as your fundamentals are tight. wow, you actually called him out: holy internet drama, batman! but, at least HSD is amused. “crucified”? nah, not really. you just went on a totally unprovoked hate tangent ended mercifully by a pathetic self-imposed pat on the back. bonus lame points for the biblical allusion to your internet avatar, from which you heckle with the anonymous aggression of a starcraft geek.


      • on November 8, 2011 at 9:37 am humansocialdynamics

        Duuuude. Totally missing the point. It’s a sandbox. He built a prettier sandcastle than you. Is it a pointless sandcastle? Sure. Is it pretty? It sure is.

        You AMOGing me? Potentially successful. Some people might say, hey, that guy loves himself and has no game. Or they might say whatever, he has something useful to say, I found that useful. More likely we’ll have a distribution between those two poles.

        But Jesus’ AMOG? That was tight. It was on the Internet, so it’s meaningless, but ultimately so is real life.

        Stop taking shit so seriously bro.


      • This is our local feminist agent provocateur seeking to ingratiate herself with key members of the blog in order to appear as if he is one of the gang. Student is a sock puppet. There have been a lot of them lately. The burden of success I suppose. Pay attention to how Commie activists work. Student has studied her Alinsky and Gramsci well. This is why you have been sold socialism on the sly for the last 50 years.


      • HSD, im not your bro. i would consider an-arm-on-waist-in-a-club a gal pal friend find. and yet your blog is teaching PU? heh. youre a kid, a nerdy one at that. hence the references to sandcastles and seeing everything through RSD PUA templates. real life is “meaningless”? hey man, you said it!

        i don’t give a shit about you, i just found your cyber cheerleading annoying because the original heckle was lame as fuck.

        PS i didn’t AMOG you. i exposed you. now run along, and stop feeding the trolls.


    • You’re really just a sexist pig;when she wises up she will leave.


      • I’m not sexist, I’m a male chauvinist.

        Get it right.


      • on November 7, 2011 at 11:44 pm humansocialdynamics

        Leave Adam alone, he’s having a bad day.

        “Hey, guys, check out this bandwagon, it’s way cool!”

        Sorry bro 🙂


      • Bad day?

        I *like* getting haters. The best way to know you matters is when you have haters.

        Boys like Jesus don’t matter. My reputation goes up anyway — when people meet me and see what I have, the projecting trolls end up looking like fans.

        It’s a good thing to have haters


      • Yeah but sometimes you gotta stop worrying about simply mattering and start questioning WHY you matter.


      • Jealous are we?


  2. Also, a hunter learns the behavior, patterns and impulses of his quarry and modifies his strategy accordingly is of course a supplicant too.

    And don’t forget an horse trainer who has the option to apply a wide range of techniques to improve the response of his mare, yet choses to employ those tried, tested and true. He is actually the one being controlled by his horse.

    Sounds like chick logic if you ask me.


  3. on November 7, 2011 at 11:02 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM)


    yes the men’s movement seeeeems
    to be lacking
    one thing
    MEN!!! lzlozozo

    first all the conservatives support butthex, sodomy, gambling away moneys, feminismsm, warmonger fimendinsns, sending other men to fight their battles, sending forth women to tame men.

    and the MRA movemeenet totally lacks men zllzolzozoz

    if you read the GREAT BOOKS FOR men you will see they were written by MEN FOR MEN.

    but toadyss milquetoast MRAs h8 hate h8 hate to read, think, act, and talk like men.

    the supreme advantage of women ihis her beuaty bupuussysysys wet pussy tight pussy (until it is bernankifieid get it while its young gohot tight beofre the bernakkifiers/asscockers set in on it!!! )

    the supreme advantage of men is his MIND and ART and RATIONALE.

    and thus other than heratisste who presenest reason heart mind soul each and every day, i see a bunch of whining betas who, while getting assockced left right and center, worry more labout grammar than tuth and beuaty, like da againg neocon charleotte allenznznz zlzozolzlz

    all the women of tehir genertaion are getting butthexed, and all the MRA can worry aboutis the proprprer spelling of butthex.

    “HELP ! HELP! the womenz are scraming, “HELP I AM BEING BUTTHEXED!!!”

    and the collective mra “men’s” movement grouo group-blogs “that is not how you spell butthex!”


    heartiste is just teahcing y’all how to loves womenz and treat womenz so you get pusysysusysysypususysysyussysysy lzozozlzo and enjoy it

    but heartistse also understands the assrpaing assocking divorce system that is trying to GAME him

    so you see, that hearistse’s game is not like he showed up on the basketball court and called everyone to come, but rather

    heartistse shwoed up and the GAME was already on. he’s just trying to teach you how to play it, out on a court where courting a woman will egt you lumbped into the beta provider, while dissing them will get you into sperminiator teritrory here she will open her warm hot tight pussy for your loststas cockas lzozozlz if you want lzozozozl

    omg i did not sleep eneough dis weekeedn as i had 2 servievce many pusysysysies with my lostsa cockas and sometimes i wish there were more men in the men’s moevemenet to help out as da GBFM can’t do all teh hard HARD work forever!! lzozzlzzozozo


  4. Has the Chateau been following the discussions at GLP and OneSTDV?


    • Yeah, the meme in the post is the same meme that Harry/Titian/Johnny/Greg guy was pushing there, as well as over at Frost’s place and In Mala Fide.


  5. “Game is inspiring women to supplicate to you and be a slave to your desires.”

    There, fixed that for you.


  6. Well, we know at least one proprietor of the Chateau (the “original” probably) reads my site as this meme was being supported in the comments of my Sunday post where I criticize anti-Game MRAs:


  7. MRA are right, you actually CHANGE yourself to please women.

    [Heartiste: Do women roll out of bed in the morning as is?]

    This is pure bullshit, no man should ever change himself for the sake of the others.

    [Must be nice living in that hermetically sealed perfect world you inhabit.]

    CH is right. If you cannot ever get laid or do not possess any game, you really NEED to learn it. It is a choice between getting laid or not. And maybe after the change you’ll feel better than before ?

    In the end no one but yourself cares about it.

    Still this is stupid there is a war between MRA and PUA. Well commercial PUA sucks, stupid society where we need to be fake and pay in order to get laid.

    [Pay? I’m with Roosh. I keep my cost-per-lay as low as possible without coming across like a cheapskate. It helps weed out the genuine loving girls from the golddiggers.]


    • Heartiste wrote: “If enjoying the exquisite pleasure of a beautiful woman’s sex and love is supplication and enslavement, then I don’t want to be emancipated.”

      Perfectly put. Sums it all up, that sentence should be both “Maxim #1” and the First “Commandment of Poon.” It is the central principle that both limits and empowers game.

      The slave either fights his circumstance or makes his peace within it. Heartiste’s mode is the latter, a rationalization that draws on the obvious benefits of demure female company while disregarding the possible ill-effects of a life built around any monomania. Those who claim to have bigger fish to fry are considered by Holelier-Than-Thou PUA-wannabes as insufficiently monomaniacal about the greatestest thing like ever and like you must be a fag who doesn’t like vag if a man fails to regard the frantic satisfaction of more and greater physical pleasures to be the summum bonum for life in the universe.

      (Now have at me, groupies. Let’s hear about my insufficient libido or improper understanding of game or ignorance of evolutionary psychology or whatever feather excites your peppy little sphincters for the thousandth time, you obedient bitches.)

      It is progress for Heartiste to call enslavement by its proper name, no matter how many “If lovin the Lord is wrong, I don’t wanna be right!”-type assertions are added to the end of it.

      Anonymous is correct that the “war between MRA and PUA” is stupider than the “second stupidest game meme,” but mostly because there is no proper war, and the meme is an obsession of the dickless: Male Rights Activists (dread term) aren’t fighters or achievers; they are whiners and scolds, worse than feminists in a way. At least feminists have straightforward penis envy based on what God gave (or neglected to give) them. MRA’s chop their own genitals off and then commence with their green-eyed covetousness of the Big Swinging Dicks still bludgeoning the world around them.


      • “Those who claim to have bigger fish to fry are considered by Holelier-Than-Thou PUA-wannabes as insufficiently monomaniacal about the greatestest thing like ever and like you must be a fag who doesn’t like vag if a man fails to regard the frantic satisfaction of more and greater physical pleasures to be the summum bonum for life in the universe.”

        Again, please quit speaking for PUAs when you have no experience with what we do. A ton of pickup teaching these days is about developing other parts of your life and not putting girls up on a pedestal.

        You are arguing against pickup from The Game’s era. It’s evolved since then the way our knowledge of flight has evolved since the Wright Brothers.

        Either go out and practice current teachings or please stfu with your bullshit “puas think this and that” crap. You’re acting like an overdramatic feminist telling people men all want to rape every women they meet.

        You write very eloquently, I just wish you weren’t writing ignorant shit.


      • You’re a boring old queer, Burger King. You’re the Anti Great Balls For Manginas.


    • This is Harry/Johnny/Titian. Possibly Tokyo Jesus Fist.

      He’s been over at my blog engaging in this sophistry.

      But he has yet to tackle this very important part of his argument: how does one “change” ones self? Is “self” so malleable that it is fundamentally changed by approaching a woman and adapting to whatever she throws your way? I think not. I move through the world adapting to my surroundings all the time. When I want to go to the store I sometimes have to navigate other cars that weren’t part of my mental landscape when I set out on the trek. I had point A (my house, my non-pussy getting self) and then I had point B (the store, pussy). Employing different tactics to get from point A to point B – which is what driving or what Game is – does not necessarily *require* a man to become suppliant to women or a slave or to submit.

      This is a very crucial sticking point in the divide. Gamers *could* lower themselves to pussy, but some MRAs could also truly be misogynists. This does not define what Game or MRA is as a concept.


      • King A/Chuck Pelto’s Id/Tom/Dick/Harry, has some flashes of insight from time to to time, bringing some incendiary but enlightening commentary. I have, from time to time, appreciated KA’s old-school rhetoric, but the constant old-testament moralizing and judgments of us “peppy little sphincters” reeks of geriatric beliefs and worldview from the Land Before Time. It’s these dusty old fucks who most recently let the banksters tank the economy, and prior to that, those who sat idly by while the feminists ride their fishy bicycles right into the mainstream.

        Let’s put all these old-ass boomers & silent generation types who would judge those of us in the prime of life whom have the balls to seek the ripe fruits of life, let us put those all these geezers on an iceberg, and give them a warm, military sendoff with full honors. Replete with 21-gun salute, as they float off into oblivion.

        It’s our time now, KA, and it’s our prerogative if we choose to enjoy the decline of the world you fucked up. Your generation gave us the lemons, and now we’re swimming in pussy-flavored lemonade. We’re merely making the best of the hand we’ve been dealt.

        As Heartiste would say, your righteous indignation is not my moral crisis.


    • uhh just to point out: There’s no war. PUAs pretty much have no idea MRAs exist. I’ve been around a long time and had never even heard the term MRA till I saw it in a comment on here.

      Also pay? Wtf?


  8. The problem is that too many “father’s rights” betas don’t want sex anymore. Their concept of MRA begins and ends with the right to see their 16 year old daughter on weekends with zero and I mean zero concept that maybe, if her friends came over for a sleep over party, he might be turned on by the friends and his right not to go to jail for accidentally touching one of the friends might be more important than the custody issue of someone who will be off to the work world or college soon anyway. We’re talking asexual mentalities in many of these father’s rights guys. Asexuals don’t represent men well.

    Newsflash about Herman Cain:

    Glora Allred, the feminist lawyer, is about to announce that one of Cain’s accusers is now her client.

    If conservatives allow her to win this new play, even if he is a horndog, US men will have rolled over and taken it up the butt once again.


    • So, do what? Vote for an unqualified, affirmative action candidate just to spite the feminists?


      • I’m sure you voted for an unqualified affirmative action candidate just to please the feminists, so why is Herman Cain a bad choice? Can’t be worse than Prince Opie who has just recently made it acceptable for a man to be expelled from college based on the preponderance of evidence standard versus a reasonable doubt standard. The same guy that has spent the bail out money on public unions and in support of womens’ jobs versus mens’ jobs. At least he’s had the balls to stand up to you bitches.


  9. heartiste

    Certain quarters of the MRA movement have a lot in common with feminists. I wonder if they are aware of the similarities?

    Nope. The certain (hind)quarters are not aware…which,
    makes the perfect comparison
    to the commonalities they share with feminists


  10. “Certain quarters of the MRA movement have a lot in common with feminists.”

    Yes, and it is worth noting that feminism was originally about creating a better world for everyone, equality, and freeing women to express their sexuality. It was hijacked by a small band of insane lesbians and they turned it into a anti sex except for homosexuals hate movement.

    The MRM faces the same danger. There are a small number of hate spewing MRAs who have slipped beyond reason, and despite their small numbers, they are prolific posters. We cannot let them become the face of the MRM or dictate the agenda.

    The goal has to be a new social compact that satisfies both sexes. I believe this would work itself out if it were not for the fact that man hating Feminists seem to be the only ones with input on the laws and administrative rules governing relationships. Return to legal neutrality and the two sexes will work it out.


  11. on November 7, 2011 at 11:21 am humansocialdynamics

    You know, that meme would be true, except that men have built-in programs for dealing with women. Game just unlocks those programs.

    Of course, men without any game or imagination will see those patterns of behaviour as unnatural and therefore supplicatory.


    • It seems that way, yes. There are parallels to humans and zebrafish. Hormonal changes beget large physical and mental changes.

      Being alpha raises testosterone, which makes men act more selfish. Many game techniques begin the feedback loop of raising testosterone by acting more selfish.

      The behaviors become internalized not merely by reinforcement of habit, but by hormonal reinforcement. The hormones unlock innate brain neuro-chemical behavior pathways.


      • Counterpoint: I’m an extremely selfish person, but I still have no game.


      • The socially skilled can insult you to your face and you’ll find yourself enamored of them.

        The socially unskilled will get a bloody nose.

        T makes men more selfish, but the feedback loop of raising T occurs in a social context. You get more only as your social skills that give you power over others rises. Or only as your raw power over others rises – through money or status.

        So selfishness is associated with high status and testosterone, and selfish behaviors are often interpreted by women as markers of high status and testosterone, however if you don’t include the social component, you could be doing it wrong and not sending off those markers.


      • I’ve never found myself “enamored” of the socially skilled people who have insulted me to my face since middle school. I’ve always held a desire to avenge myself upon them, to torture them horribly both physically and psychologically, to inflict pain on them until they are broken and submit to My will, to make them bow down before Me.

        But I have no power to make this happen and likely never will, so it will only ever exist in my fantasies as an omega.

        High selfishness+high status = Alpha. Low selfishness+high status = Beta (provider) Low selfishness+low status = Gamma (social bottomfeeder) High selfishness+low status = Omega (antisocial outcast)


      • I like your breakdown of selfishness plus status.

        I had in mind a different type of pleasant insulter than a high school jock type. Perhaps you’ve either never come across or never noticed someone who could tell you ugly truths to your face without hurting your feelings, in a funny and endearing way?


  12. You can say that this one is number 2, but to me saying that by refusing to buy a woman a drink you are her slave is quite a bit dumber than simply choosing to define alpha by the number of kids you have.


  13. Ask some MRAs what’s more important: using the money saved from getting the excessive child support reduced in order to go fishing or using the money saved in order to have a decent enough apartment to support the interest of a really hot young replacement for his aging ex-wife, and he’ll look at you with a blank stare like the latter concept is something strange.


    • Oh, but didn’t you know, the advantages of a great bachelor pad are all in your mind! If you only stop having those limiting beliefs, you’d no longer acrue any advantage from one!

      Peter Pan Principle PUAs piss me off.


      • Here, here. All a bachelor pad needs to be is clean. Looks clean, smells clean. That’s it.

        Once you get a girl to come over, decor and furniture are the last things on her mind. As long as everything looks clean and smells clean, she’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.


      • I’m tempted to take a pic of one of my buddy’s bathroom. There’s grout all over, dust, hairs, dirt, grime, when you turn on the fan dust comes out.

        He fucks new and returning girls in it every week. Sober, drunk, day, night, classy girls, innocent girls, slutty girls…

        If a girl rejects you because of your place, you’re not attracting her enough. This is where normal guys who get shut down about their place should be going “huh maybe that pua stuff I make fun of could actually help me here”.

        Or, you know, base your self worth on external stuff and work a shit-load of overtime being miserable to pay for a swank apartment with a maid. That’s cool with me, I like when girls take me to their boyfriends’ nice apartments to fuck. Please stock the fridge with Coronas for us. 😛


      • “That’s cool with me, I like when girls take me to their boyfriends’ nice apartments to fuck.”

        What are your insights on cheating bitches?
        Are they just fucking around because they’re tired of their beta boyfriend, or are they just slutty and don’t give a fuck if their bf is alpha or beta?

        I’m asking this cause this blog advocates alphaness as the ultimate anti-cuckoldry technique, I wonder if it eliminates or just reduces the risks.

        [Heartiste: There are no guarantees of fidelity. There is only more faithful and less faithful. Being a man women love will reduce the risk, of course. As will dating higher class girls. The best predictor is simply screening for girls who don’t have a lot of slut tells, or a long sordid history of cock hopping.]


      • Heartiste’s answer is dead on.


      • on November 7, 2011 at 11:00 pm the_alpha_male

        Every women that has ever hit on me has been a slut. Every women that i approached so far has not been.

        One the easiest screening methods is: did she hit on me?

        Take it for what it’s worth. I’m no PUA guru.


      • Yeah, one should not get into LTRs with chicks who have been picked up this way:


      • I wrote a blog post just for you on my blog. Hope you got a chance to read it.

        I think you are self hypnotizing yourself with feel good dogma, just so that you don’t lose confidence.

        Yes, we agree, that part of attraction is charisma, and that does a lot.

        But if you are not able to see that money and displays of money and status are attraction triggers for females that work alongside with and boost your game above game acting alone, then you’ve never had money.


      • It’s only loony to you because it’s so far outside of your reality that it would be a mindfuck to accept it right now. From your blog:

        “It’s as if you either don’t know, or don’t want to know the difference your pad can make.”

        I’m aware. I’ve fucked girls in swank places and I’ve fucked them on friends’ old futons. Hell, there was a point where I had literally no furniture and had to sleep on a hardwood floor. Tyler Durden lived on a matress in a closet. It’s not relevant unless you want to be a provider for a girl and she’s looking at you through that lens.

        “I’ve had a regular fuck buddy come to my new hotel, and refuse to fuck me as it was too downscale.”

        This is the same as the guy who says “that girl was into me but then she saw that my shoes aren’t nice shoes so she didn’t want to fuck me anymore :(” If she’s paying attention to your shoes or the niceness of your hotel, you’re not that attractive to her at that moment.

        “I’ve had another girl take one look at the inside of another bungalo and tell me flat out that it wasn’t good enough for her”

        wtf? What do you when you take a girl home? Give her a tour of the place and ask her what she thinks? Pour her a glass of wine and put on some Barry White? You should be pinning her up against the wall a finger deep before you even get in the door.

        “The first time I had an entrepreneurial high swing I was surprised to have first dates start telling me what a “great personality” I had.”

        Same as the guy who buys a new shirt and thinks it’s a lucky shirt because he’s suddenly getting all these compliments. It’s not the shirt, it’s because he’s attached his sense of self-worth to external things like having nice clothes, so he carries himself better and gives off a better vibe.

        I’m not saying an entrepreneurial high swing DOESN’T help you, it aligns a bunch of nice shit in your head. But understand that it’s that nice shit in your head that attracts women, not the high swing itself, and that you can have that nice shit in your head by default 24/7 if you quit attaching your worth to external devices.

        “Wealth and power and status are in and of themselves attraction triggers.”

        No, power and status are attraction triggers. Wealth is irellevant. And you can have power and status with no wealth. Wealth is irellevant to women unless they’re looking at you as a provider instead of a sexworthy guy.

        “But if you don’t know the difference that money can make, you’ve never had money.”

        Game PLUS money is nice, the money provides you access to more environments where you can meet more women, but the money and job success isn’t what attracts the women. If your worth isn’t attached to your money, having it or losing it won’t affect your confidence and your ability to get quality girls. See the jobless alpha male who doesn’t care that he hasn’t paid his rent in 2 months. Or the depressed rich guy who’s bored with money because he wishes instead that he was jacked like Schwartznegger…if he was just a few inch bigger in his biceps THEN he can trade up!

        If you attach your self worth to money, and you make money, yes, it’ll help you feel confident. But what happens if you lose that money? Or if you’re in an environment where money isn’t a mark of status? Or if you meet people who don’t place high value on money (aka people who’ve grown up rich)? What happens is you tell yourself your $800/mo mattress on the floor isn’t high status enough because your self-worth bottoms out even though the reality is nothing about you as a person has changed.

        We’re speaking two different languages here and I’m honestly trying to help you because I understand why you’re limiting yourself the way you are. Most of us are that way, I used to be, it’s the way society raises us. Your beliefs are very common and society perpetuates it because a lot of people benefit when you build a business from the ground up providing jobs for people and pay a ton of money to people for two luxury apartments and fancy dinners and such.

        But you can drive up in a Ferrari and not only will you not be able to take girls off an $800/yr matress on the floor guy with solid inner game, but he’ll take the girls you drove up with. Seen it (and been it) again and again. That’s not talking smack, that’s experience.

        “I think you are self hypnotizing yourself with feel good dogma, just so that you don’t lose confidence.”

        That’s because you don’t go out and work on your game and see this stuff first-hand. You’re too busy making excuses, even if they’re valid ones like wanting to put time in on your business or being content with a girlfriend. But at the end of it, you’re not going out gaming and crushing your limiting beliefs. It has nothing to do with chanting feel-good dogma sitting in my computer chair every weekend.

        “But if you are not able to see that money and displays of money and status are attraction triggers for females that work alongside with and boost your game above game acting alone, then you’ve never had money.”

        You can keep saying this, but it still won’t be true. I already linked the Blueprint clips where he talks about it, but I’ll summarize the important part: If you want to be a provider, money is great, but it will hinder a girl from sleeping with you because she’ll categorize you as a provider instead of a guy to fuck that night. I know a guy who actually has to NOT tell girls he’s successful because then they tell him shit like “this bungalo isn’t good enough for me”.

        Money doesn’t attract women, the way other people respond to you when you have money is social proof and that’s what attracts women. When the waiter addresses you by name and takes you to your VIP table and the manager comes out to shake your hand, the chick is attracted. It’s not because of the money you have, it’s because of the way those men are treating you as high status.

        But if you’re simply a cool guy with good social skills, you can get that exact same reaction from those guys, and you’ll get the exact same attraction from the girl. Because it was never about the dollar bills, it was about how people respond to you.

        Try an experiment: Get yourself alone with a girl, nobody else around, and then ask her to count the dollar bills in your wallet. Watch how fast she jumps on your cock. (how do I make a sarcastic smiley-face here?)

        You can’t even imagine how many guys I see dropping hundreds of dollars on girls, and my buddies and I can just walk up and take them off them without a sweat. It’s hilarious. I’m talking guys wearing expensive suits who tell girls about their private jets and are literally pulling out actual wads of hundred dollar bills to buy rounds of shots/drinks for people. Hell, half the time I have those guys buying ME drinks by the end of the night lol

        But their self-esteem is attached to their money and they’re left going “wtf!” when the girls walk off on our arms, home to our shitty apartments to fuck them in grimey bathrooms. 🙂

        Go out more, you’re spouting theory and anecdotal evidence, not experience.


      • You arrogant little fuck.

        Would it hurt your psyche to acknowledge the utility of power tools?

        As I said – I’ve done fine with a mattress on a floor.

        That does not mean that I don’t do better in a swanky pad.

        But acknowledging that reality would hurt your mojo.

        Not EVERYTHING is down to charisma, you twenty two year old little know it all.


      • You’re such a purist. Makes me wonder if you also refuse to notice the advantages of any other attraction trigger other than game. Do looks help? Does body building help?

        Only some attraction triggers are valid to you.

        That kind of purist attitude is pure religion.

        Gives game a bad name. Puts people off.

        Take in all of reality. It doesn’t bite. You don’t need to bolster your confidence in game at the expense of acknowledging the power and utitility of other real attraction triggers.

        1 plus 1 equals two. It doesn’t equal one. Game plus money gets you more girls than game alone.

        But that can’t be obvious to you.



      • Listen hard. The movie Revolver and Fight Club are about this concept too.

        Happiness and high self-confidence are a default state, not a state you have to try to achieve. Society just puts a lot of barriers on it so we don’t all walk around as cocky alphas cause that’s not good for society.

        You should be as confident in your $800/yr pad as you are in your bachelor pad and you should be able to get the same girls. If you can’t, you’re not done working on your inner game. If the girl is basing her attraction on your apartment, you’re in a provider beta role to her, not an alpha “I hope I’m good enough for this amazing alpha male to impregnate me” role.

        I know that’s a hard ego hit to take. Every skilled PUA has gone through it. Shed the ego or you’ll be trapped by it.


      • Yareally, you are actually positing that money is not an attraction trigger.

        That’s the most unrealistic statement I’ve ever read on this blog.

        I realize that the attraction triggers that you mentioned are real and valid.

        That is not in opposition to money being an attraction trigger. The fact that money is an attraction trigger in no way needs to lessen confidence in other attraction triggers. Other attraction triggers can still work to 100% efficiency, even having awareness of the fact that money is an attraction trigger.

        You are in denial of an obvious fact that has been obvious to near all men throughout all of recorded history and before.


      • And if I recall correctly, there have been studies that prove that money is an attraction trigger. Women are shown pictures of men, and asked if they are attractive or not. Sometimes the men are described as poor, sometimes rich.

        When they are described as rich, their physical appearance is said by the women to be more attractive.

        But you have an unfalsifiable belief. It’s religious. You say that you can fly, and if you can’t fly, it’s because you aren’t believing hard enough.

        And your idea of finger fucking every date before getting into the door is the very strangest unrealistic bragging I’ve ever heard. Makes you seem a bit of the keyboard jockey.


      • Also your adherence to game and only game above all borders on religious. And using Tyler Durden as your proof – a man standing on a stage preaching. What logical fallacy is that? Appeal to authority.

        Experience of thousands of men is available online – and they have concurred. Money is an advantage. In the real world, off the stage.

        You don’t have to be a true believer in game in order to boost your confidence. Game works. Money does too. No contradiction.


      • “And using Tyler Durden as your proof – a man standing on a stage preaching.”

        lol Tyler’s credentials are solid. 🙂

        “Experience of thousands of men is available online”

        Experience of betas is not relevant to alphas.

        “You don’t have to be a true believer in game in order to boost your confidence. Game works. Money does too. No contradiction.”

        It’s not about belief. It’s about experience.

        You keep saying stuff like “If you can’t see that money boosts your game, then you’ve never had money.”

        Well if you can’t see that money is irrellevant, then you’ve never had hardcore success in pickup.


      • “Yareally, you are actually positing that money is not an attraction trigger.”

        Only for golddiggers and only for beta providers. If you’re a loser with no game and you’re begging your way into the pants of girls who are looking for a provider to take care of them while they fuck alpha males, then yes, money is totally an attraction trigger.

        I’m sorry if this comes as a mindfuck to you. Go out more.

        “And if I recall correctly, there have been studies that prove that money is an attraction trigger.”

        OMG a scientific study!!11111 Asking women what they think is attractive!! That is TOTALLY the way to figure this shit out. Fuck going out and actually trying the shit I told you to try, that’d take effort and an ego hit. You know what, let’s just ask women what they want in a man? I heard there’s scientific studies that saw women want nice guys who buy them pretty things! That is teh way for teh attraction!11

        “And your idea of finger fucking every date before getting into the door is the very strangest unrealistic bragging I’ve ever heard. Makes you seem a bit of the keyboard jockey.”

        Oh zing, you 180’ed that on me using the term “keyboard jockey”! Nice move! Seriously, have you even been laid before? Have you ever had sex with a girl on the first date? Or within a few hours of meeting her? Like, you can pretend this is all impossible but my friends and I do it all the time. It’s not difficult when you have game.

        You clearly don’t go out, you clearly don’t have game, you clearly don’t even understand game, and I don’t think you’re a virgin but you sure as shit aren’t a guy that gets laid regularly by hot chicks. It’s written all over your posts and beliefs.

        But hey, cling to whatever helps you sleep at night. That’s way easier than admitting you suck and working to fix yourself. Just make sure to stock the coronas. 🙂


      • I was being sarcastic.

        For any who have had the experience to compare, they will note a definite advantage to the bachelor pad.

        This is NOT to argue that you can’t get laid without a bachelor pad.

        But an advantage is an advantage.

        If you are running at 100% top of your game without a bachelor pad, you will be running at greater than 100% of your usual game with one. Because a bachelor pad is an attraction trigger, over and above your very best game.

        And any improvement can translate into fucking girls who you would not otherwise fuck.

        Men who have had both bachelor pad and not will concur.


      • “Because a bachelor pad is an attraction trigger, over and above your very best game.”

        Nope. You can keep repeating it, but it won’t become true. Go out more, take more girls home. Start telling them you work as a janitor. Start making them pay for your drinks and cabs. Start taking them to your buddy’s couch instead of your awesome bachelor pad. Start picking them up wearing a t-shirt and jeans. Start picking them up and telling them they’ll have to take the bus home in the morning. Start picking them up and fucking them in alley-ways or bathrooms.

        It’s all irrelevant when you know what’s actually an “attraction trigger”, and it’s not what your gay MSN “how to get the girl in 10 easy steps: step 1) clean your car, step 2) get a haircut” articles and “you have to mirror her body language, then release your pheromones!” scientific studies tell you.

        …again, unless you want to be her beta male provider. I’m starting to suspect you’re that type.


      • Beware, a bachelor pad that is TOO neat and TOO clean and TOO “with it” looks gay which in turn can raise doubts.


  14. I dont see why both concepts have to be mutually exclusive. Only the fringe element of absolutionists have the “no women” at any time for any reason they sound a lot like feminists in reverse.

    Now treating women like a hot stove is just plain smart but it doesnt mean you have to give up hot tasty food either. On the other hand if you dont like hot food thats fine and your risk of burn is lower however dont belittle those who want DO like hot food and are simply applying techniques to aquire more of it with minimal risk.


  15. British men just buckled under and allowed female succession to the thrown ahead of brothers.


    • Brits have been grabbing their ankles for at least 15 years now. I’m sure it feels natural at this point.


  16. Paraphrasing Keoni Galt over at the Hawaiian Libertarian mentioned today, much of game is simply advice our fathers and grandfathers should have been giving us, but were too busy being cogs in the machine, or worse, were too beta to know, having been shut down by feminizing cultural influences. Today’s game is a distilled scientific, yet artistic realm, using naturally occurring gender differences as a means of play and tension-building.

    Using this definition, game has always existed in a hidden fashion, and its characteristics and techniques have simply been discovered, elucidated, refined, and developed, much like the discovery of a medicinal agent in a plant or mineral substance, which is then extracted and refined into some powerful medicine.


    • Society became more atomized due to long office hours and T.V.

      The internet de-atomized it.

      The commons of men is reborn. With it the transmission of men’s social knowledge.


      • The internet is not such the ‘noble commons’
        as it is figment of your wishful thinking.
        Rather, it’s more a place to vent.
        nothing else

        You’ll not mine gold
        from teenagers shit


      • on November 7, 2011 at 7:22 pm (r)Evoluzione

        Parts of the internet ARE noble commons. It is very rare, but the noble commons exists as flashes and sparks, emergent properties that dissappear back into the murk. Posts here, and certain commenter’s insightful comments, highlight my point.

        Otherwise, yes, the internet is full of teenager shit and other detritus of a dry-rotting civilization.

        Even in the decay
        slivers of gold
        can be found.

        (I like poetry too, FP)


      • I understand your point.

        In actuality, the labor of mining is tiring and offers poor rewards. If you want gold your own way.

        It’s better to readily obtain gold at a…Jewelry store – a Library, where it’s ready to wear and double-refined ages ago.

        If Nietzsche had written about Game and Rousseau had a bitchin’ eternal stash o’ pr0n – well, would there really be any need?

        I see no tangible good that came out of Rome’s ultimate decay, a Holocaust, or a Jihad.

        No, rather than mine for tiny slivers shimmering in an ocean of shit, it’s better to wear a regal jewel-encrusted crown, provided courtesy of established wisdom already long-residing in accumulated archives.

        It’s better to heed a good philosopher or historian, than give credence to a drunk in a bar.


  17. Most of the original writers from TS are gone, and aside from Price (and scant few others), the collective IQ has “entropied” itself into futility. Entropied itself hard…right up the ass.

    Like America, it’s degenerated into two camps. One camp, a bitter bastion of scorned older males seeking revenge against any and all women. Implacable. Calcified to all reason.

    The other – a cadre of kidz who were nine when The Game was published, repeating its concepts as if it were a newsflash fresh from the Bible. They, also are implacable and calcified to all reason, screeching fantasy, wishes, shouldacouldawouldas and nonsense as if CoD were some, “like, allegory, man” for real life combat.

    Actual accomplishments are postponed for endless keyboard orgasms of venting. “Let’s Pretend” has primacy over “let’s do.”

    Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM)

    yes the men’s movement seeeeems
    to be lacking
    one thing
    MEN!!! lzlozozo

    and the MRA movemeenet totally lacks men zllzolzozoz
    but toadyss milquetoast MRAs h8 hate h8 hate to read, think, act, and talk like men.

    The Emperor’s New Clothes lolllzloolllz.

    The men’s rights movement has hardly any men, is not about rights – and is certainly no movement.

    Discuss amongst yourselves…


    • on November 7, 2011 at 1:07 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM)

      da only oeomeoevemnt in da men’z movement is da circle-jerk blogger movemeeng zlzlzooz buttehxual moevement lzozozo

      never in a million reyayers will
      any man
      in da “men’s” beta moevemengt womvemen lzozozz
      ever stand up for the art
      and great literature books classics exalted art zlzlzl


  18. Certain quarters of the MRA movement have a lot in common with feminists. I wonder if they are aware of the similarities?

    Can we stop the silly MRA vs Gamer war? It’s ridiculous.


    • on November 7, 2011 at 1:11 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM)

      dat depends,

      can u stop trying 2 instert your tiny cockas in our buttocks ? lzozzlzlzl


    • I don’t understand this argument.

      First, nobody is dying or being harmed in any way. So what does it hurt? If anything the debate raises our awareness that men should remain vigilant in their various ways against the feminist zeitgeist. MRAs and Gamers really didn’t have a whole lot of overlap beforehand: no great love is lost but I think a higher level of awareness have been achieved. It’s a net gain.

      Second, these arguments need to be teased out. If the deep philosophical divide goes unmentioned we just kick the can.

      Third, this is what the internet was invented for. Well, this and pr0n.


      • G.L. Piggy

        … this is what the internet was invented for. Well, this and pr0n.

        You are held spellbound by a relatively still-recent technology. Like an enamored new lover, you gloss over its flaws – because it feeds you – is mutually beneficial.

        The internet, is like the lightbulb – but an invention delivered to a world of jabbering monkeys, masturbating. They just like it because now, they aren’t relegated to only jerking it in the dark.

        When you’re 50 – none of this will have meant a speck of significance. You’ll have spent thousands of hours, writing for free.

        [Heartiste: Yeah, but it beats watching gossip girl.]


      • I don’t always jerk it, but when I do, I prefer jerking in the dark.


      • I have stepped into The Light.
        teh internets really allowed us a communion

        Jerking it to Gossip Girl (with the lights on)
        is the 21st Century version of salon


      • lol, I love that meme


  19. New Cain accuser says she traveled to DC to meet with him about him helping her find a new job.

    He made a pass at her as he was driving her around after drinks in which she was friendly to the guy she wanted help from.

    She was not his employee at the time.

    Of course a guy would expect a favor for private help. This was not an employee of his.


    • This is an outrageous release of what happened in a private interaction between non-coworkers.

      This puts men in future jeopardy for asking for sexual favors for any favors from female friends or acquaintances.

      She was not an employee. She told Cain that she had a boyfriend at the time but so what. She was asking Cain as a friend to help her get a job and he may have, rightfully, asked for a favor like that.


      • on November 7, 2011 at 2:54 pm David Rockefeller

        Cain doesn’t have the balls to admit he wanted her to suck his dick in return for doing her a favor.


      • Why should a man have to admit this publicly? Feminists are the ones who want to bring men’s private desires into the light of day for scrutiny. We know male desires are not seen as politically correct when women have the vote.

        There is no moral imperative for him to have to publicly describe a private interaction. Apart from the alleged head pulling toward the crotch, it would have been reasonable for him to have made a smoother move.

        [Heartiste: This Cain thing reeks of a coordinated campaign. Nevertheless, pulling a girl’s head into your lap is not good game. It’s anti-game.]


      • “Nevertheless, pulling a girl’s head into your lap is not good game. It’s anti-game.]”

        Heh. No there are times but it takes a shit-ton of social calibration, reading the girl’s level of attraction VERY accurately, juggling her LMR and ASD, and having a very sexual vibe.

        My buddies and I do stuff like that all the time. You can even just whip your dick out and put her hand on it. This is all very advanced shit newbies shouldn’t mess with but it’s there.

        Caine is a creeper with no game. Being ballsy is not the same as being good.


      • She didn’t just travel to meet him. She traveled to meet him and let him know in advance that she was going to be staying in his hotel.

        We’ve only heard one side of the story. She might be leaving out some details such as “I grabbed his cock and rubbed his balls” before the part about him moving her head into his crotch. She might also be leaving out, “and after he asked about if I wanted the job, I sucked him dry and he didnt give me the job, anyway.” Of course, Cain is powerless to fill in those blanks.

        Watching this chick’s statement, she’s strikes me as a blonde Sarah Palin, but who can read.


      • Who knows, maybe she blew him and is only admitting the parts she feels good about. I suspect Herman didn’t just think to pull her head down. She was probably dropping big hints that she was willing. In any event. the sexual harrassment charge has lost its luster as a weapon.


    • Her description of the actual incident of “harassment” was that it was a pass between private citizens that she didn’t want, which wouldn’t come close to the definition of harassment of any kind.

      As the private citizen with power in his early 40s was being flattered (buttered up) by the hot young blonde (she was probably an extremely hot twenty something 14 years ago), he was rather beta in the way he handled the pass, according to her.

      From what she says, he parked the car and then moved his hand up her skirt while simultaneously grabbing her head and pulling it down toward his crotch.

      That would be very bad kino.

      An alpha would wait to see the reaction from putting the hand up slowly up the skirt. Grabbing the head would be overly aggressive and an otherwise willing woman would bail.

      An insecure, aggressive man would be like that.

      The proper way to do that would be to keep the hand on the leg while discussing whether she really wanted help or not.

      And BJs are an exchange of bodily fluids that a man in that situation should not go for as the first step in establishing a sexual tryst.

      My conclusion: if this is believed and hurts Cain, it will be the description of pulling her head down toward his crotch and not putting his hand on her leg and asking her how much she wants his private help as a friend to find her a job.


      • These are the “tells” in this particular bluff, indications that this is made-up to stimulate the audience into wrath and disrespect.

        I just don’t see how this is physically plausible. as told.

        Besides, she comes begging for an economic pay-out (a job), allows herself to get sauced, and then he suggests a return favor. This is somehow a terrible act of immorality and illegality?


      • Here’s something else that doesn’t make sense, perhaps bad game, or perhaps because the story is complete bullcrap. He got her an expensive suite in the hotel. I can see making some move in the car, but why push her head into his lap in the car when he can be back in that suite within minutes, banging her in luxury.


      • Sticking your hand up a girl’s skirt and trying to force her face onto your crotch is not a “pass.” It is sexual assault.


      • It works for me more times than not. Of course, mostly with drunk women who are begging me for a big favor but for others too. You do need to read the situation correctly.

        Try it sometimes!


      • it’s only sexual assault to manginas. This girl wasn’t some stranger seated next to Cain on a bus.


      • No its not, its a ham fisted way of testing the waters at worst. And yes, it works much more than it fails.


      • And one wonders why she showed up in a short enough skirt with bare legs in the summer for him to get his hands under, asking for a huge favor.


      • Nathan bitch is a sock puppet. So is her buddy Student.


      • if the girl is telling her friends that ‘it just happened’, you’re alpha.

        if the girl is telling the police that ‘i was raped’, you’re beta.


  20. Cain will be able to claim the high tech lynching thing and the lefties who call him out on it will end up looking stupid. Black people especially will think its BS. My guess is he’ll come out looking better than before. Ambulance Chaser Gloria Allred or none.


  21. I’ve always liked this blog because it was about male/female relationships from a “red-pill” perspective (game), and it also had some MRA topics mixed in and an overall anti-feminist attitude.

    A couple of years ago when I first starting reading blogs around what’s known as the manosphere I thought Game and the MRA would mix together nicely – men taking on feminism from all fronts, from personal relationships to the legal and social in the larger culture. But it hasn’t really happened.

    Novaseeker, or Brendan, has a good explanation why on Gucci Little Piggy, Chucks blog.


    • You are right In my view MRA’s and gamers combined with the MGTOW crowd will have a huge effect on feminism.I sent heartsie a link to a video of Kate Bolick on the today show and it was an awesome public display of the dynamics we speak of hear. The MRM needs to get as many woman as possible into involuntary childless spinsterhood. Any man with the slightest knowledge of game can see whyand where this is going. As an MRA I see nothing wrong with men that are into wearing out pussy. The cock carousel comes in handy for an MRA trying to make old spinsters. You cock carousel operators provide a valuable service. Also the concept and aplication of game will protect my son from feminism. He’s 5 now but I have enough sense to know he will be one horny dude come 14 to 30 and will need to know and understand how to control it with out being taken like a chump. In ten years if I can’t get things rolling the misandry may be so bad my boy could lose his life with out game.


      • “The MRM needs to get as many woman as possible into involuntary childless spinsterhood.”

        Ya this is the weirdly angry “let’s get thise bitches!!!!” creepy vibe I’m talking about when I say I glanced at some MRA stuff and was weirded out. PUA teachings dont have this “gotta punish them” mentality, especially these days.


      • agreed. its a massive inner game fail. women are pretty easy-peasy when you know how to handle them. its guys who fail w/o learning who seem to harbor this bizarre hatred of them and burning desire for revenge.


      • I’d say it has far more to do with having their civil rights stolen and being turned into second class citizens within their lifeimes. That’s what has me pissed. I won’t hire women either. I have no troubles at work and excellent productivity for that very reason.Women get their asses kissed too much as it is in this society.


    • I’ll save initiates the bother. Every other blog on this topic is shit. Their hit-or-miss bloviations are not worth regularly checking to see if they stumbled onto something interesting. And the high-quality commenters here are sufficient push-back against The Chateau’s more outre material.

      Other sites have been recommended, but I found them to be bleh. I think I would have heard by now, but if there is a bigger or better readership elsewhere I’d be happy to be corrected. Because sooner or later one man’s hobbyhorses, no matter how compelling they are at first, start to get old. The Chateau could stand employing some other voices. But even Heartiste’s repetition is better than other sites’ “originality.”


  22. Does anyone know of any other incident where a man was publicly accused of sexual harassment, in an attempt to hurt his career, for being asked by a friend as a friend to help her find a job and he said “OK, but what’s in it for me?”

    How many of us do that several times a year when a hot young woman asks for help? Isn’t it beta to help a very hot woman rise in her status without anything sexual in return?

    Gloria Allred is saying that men who ask for favors for favors in private life will be destroyed.


    • Huffington Post “males” are all saying that putting your hand up the skirt of a woman asking you as a friend to help her get a job is “sexual harassment” or “sexual assault”:

      It turns out that she had dinner with Cain and not just drinks.


      • thats because it is sexual assault. it doesn’t matter that it sometimes works. what matters is he did it and she didn’t want it. that’s the risk you take w sudden gropes in sexual areas.

        or look at it another way; if that chick was your daughter, and she comes home telling you some creepy politician put his hand up her skirt completely out of the blue, the fuck would you do? just tell her that “boys will be boys”? or would you find the fucker and give him the sonny corleone treatment? which do you think is the alpha play?


      • You’re indeed a sock puppet. So what would you do, lock him up for 50 years? Maybe he should have had her sign a form at each level of escalation. What a bitch.


      • Your daughter analogy is a stretch. She went on a date with the guy. A well raised daughter would have slapped old Hermie and that would be the end of it. Your standard for assault is too narrow and technical as to be practical and it is unfair to men who are expected to initiate sexual contact. That’s the evil of your feminist position. Its deliberately intended to make every move by a man a risk of jail time. Anyone who so enthusiastically internalizes an ideology that seeks to bring about their own demise is a fool.


      • Uh, yeah, the “males” on Huffington Post are correct. An unsolicited hand up a girl’s skirt is sexual assault. What else would you call it?


      • Foreplay.


      • Males and females in nearly every species, including humans, mate by the woman putting herself in the position and giving out IOIs for the guy to make the move. That move is only sexual assault in the most technical sense, unless its over the top, and it strikes me as something which we must absolutely defend as legal, or legalize if it isn’t legal. Otherwise, even a light tap on the elbow, not to mention the claw move, are assault or battery, as well.


      • You’re a sock puppet too.


      • In sum, the court finds that a showing of a tangible job detriment or adverse employment action is an essential element of plaintiff’s Section 1983 quid pro quo sexual harassment claim and that plaintiff has not demonstrated any tangible job detriment or adverse employment action for her refusal to submit to the governor’s alleged advances. The president is therefore entitled to summary judgment on plaintiff’s claim of quid pro quo sexual harassment.

        For the foregoing reasons, the court finds that the president’s and Ferguson’s motions for summary judgment should both be and hereby are granted. There being no remaining issues, the Court will enter judgment dismissing this case.

        It is so ordered this 1st day of April 1998.
        — Susan Webber Wright, United States District Judge

        This is the judgement in the Paula Jones Case.


      • There’s more to this story than the Commies are admitting. I’m sure she was sending out the appropriate signals to Herman and maybe teasing him in the hopes her “charm” would be enough. He called her bluff. This case is utter BS.


  23. I’ve had four partners in the last week, including my first threesome. I’m on a roll, in part due to the teachings of the Chateau.

    But let me remind you of your third commandment:

    >> III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority <<

    That's what such critics are getting at. Like, don't you have hobbies other than poon? There is more to life… me, I'm a composer. That takes time. Yes, it increases my market value, but it has an inherent, civilization-building value beyond the ass it seems to get me.

    [Heartiste: Making moral judgments about whether the pursuit of poon is more noble than the pursuit of excellence in some pleasurable hobby is pointless. All roads lead to self-interest and maximizing one’s happiness (or at least trying to). Hedonism encompasses more than just sex. I get a lot of pleasure out of playing piano, for instance. The 3rd poon commandment is simply an acknowledgement that the man who focuses on the needs of his woman to the exclusion of all his other gratifications risks losing her because women don’t like to be fawned over, and they especially don’t like to be with men who are always seeking their approval or flattering them with cloying sycophancy.]


  24. Thank you for being the first gamer to finally ADMIT that game is about supplication and essentially being enslaved to women!

    For the longest time I did not know how to answer game-haters when they said that – I mean, they have a point, no? But now I will have less shame in simply admitting that I am supplicating to women in refined ways. After all, why not? I am getting sex!

    I knew I could count on you to show me the way!

    [Heartiste: Not too bright, are ya? By the way, it’s Mr. Heartiste to you.]


  25. you do realize you covered this more than adequately back in 2010?

    16. Dancing Monkey Hate

    Hater: Men who run game are just doing the bidding of women. Alphas don’t entertain women.

    If you want success with women, you are going to have to entertain them… one way or the other. The same is true of women. Once a woman stops entertaining men with her body, her femininity, and her commitment worthiness by getting fat, old, ugly, bitchy, or single mom-y, she stops having success with men. We are all doing the bidding of our biomechanical overlord, and on our knees to his will we surrender, by force or by choice. You fool yourself if you believe you have some plenary indulgence from this stark reality.
    Or: If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.

    I respond to CH, by invoking CH. We have at last come full circle.


    • Straw man. The criticism of putting Pussy on a Pedestal is not about “doing the bidding of women.” It’s about doing the bidding of your crotch with no mediation or self-reflection.

      The louder and louder assertions to the contrary only confirm the aptness of the criticism. As if we’re supposed to all be intimidated into vigorous head-nodding agreement with Heartiste’s philosophy of Thinking Primarily With One’s Dick. That’d be just peachy. Except for the fact that it is embarrassing frat-house idiocy which a well-adjusted man gets over by his fifth fuck. The talented rhetoric and the pretensions to urbane sophistication and science of The Chateau can’t quite conceal the pubescent gonadocentric hooey at the core of his philosophy.

      But Heartiste is a moving target. At times, like today, he plays Reverend Dick Warren and give us excerpts from the Cock-Driven Life. At other times he pretends his critics have missed the point by over-extrapolation: of course there are higher pursuits than chasing skirts (cf. his confused paeans to “love”). His thinking is muddled, it shifts depending on the criticism in front of him.

      And there’s always the fall-back pose: this is a blog about game, except when it’s not, so discussions which stray from The Exalted Pants of Heartiste are verboten, except when they’re not. All very well, if you are the brand of masochist who doesn’t mind the whiplash.

      As his post above happens to be a response to anti-hedonism, Heartiste will be quite single-mindedly pro-hedonism. The consistency will slip — as it must in all modi vivendi that contradict themselves — and, while he’s certainly not gullible enough to buy the estrogen-oil the MRA’s are hustling, he will occasionally wax eloquent about issues that transcend the bar and the bedroom. Some of us notice his impracticable inconsistencies based on a fundamental brain burp, and call shenanigans.

      The rest of you, well …

      “I respond to [Heartiste], by invoking [Heartiste]. We have at last come full circle.”

      Break the cycle. The sycophancy is gross. It’s unbecoming the independent thinker you appeared to be.


  26. Well, game is basically trying to weasel around a woman’s mental defences

    [Heartiste: No. Game is about conveying your masculine allure in the best possible way so that women experience pleasure in your company.]

    and trying to get her to sleep with you

    [All men are trying to get women they like to sleep with them, game or no game.]

    and keep her doing what you want her to do.

    [Do women not have volition? Are they empty vessels? Walking pussies, into which willpower and intent and penii are poured?
    No free woman is forced to keep doing what her man wants without her consent to oblige, unless she is physically coerced or threatened, which is not the way of game.]

    Fail that and you’re facing a strong persistent need for sex which doesn’t get satisfied unless you do something.

    [Women need. Men want.]

    A man is then a slave to his nature,

    [So are women.]

    dependent on women for happiness,

    [Not solely. But involuntary celibacy is a leading indicator of unhappiness.]

    but he doesn’t want to stop being that.

    [Struggling against human nature has been the cause of so much pain and anguish.]

    It doesn’t mean you’re supplicating women or do everything they want you to do, but you’re still a slave in a way.

    [According to your very broad definition, everything with a biological basis is a slave. Maybe that view is correct, but it’s ultimately pointless. It doesn’t even rise to the level of a trollish semantic campaign.]


    • Let’s assume you are a slave to getting pussy. What’s the best way to unshackle yourself?

      Well, one could argue that a person is a slave to food if they don’t get food and must spend a lot of time searching for food. How does a person overcome this monomaniacal focus on food? They learn to hunt.

      I’ll let you put all that together.

      Wait, no I won’t because you might not do it right.

      If someone has a certain deficiency they focus a lot of psychic energy on that deficiency. Best then to learn how to fill that deficiency, and the best way to do that is to learn about a system that they can implement in lean times. This is very empowering and soul-satisfying.


      • Yes, you do what you can with what you have, it’s the only thing you can do anyway. Although some buddhists go for destruction of all their needs, which is not for everyone. I’d personally go for a combination of both. Whatever works best for you. I don’t think either of those methods is more moral than the other, and both make you strong in different ways.


      • Buddhism and PUA have WAY more in common than MRA and PUA.


      • In what way? I guess I can see how both of the former just take things as they are and go with the flow (unless I misunderstand buddhists), MRAs want to change everything.


      • Yes. Exactly. We aren’t out to change the universe, we just accept it for what it is.

        There are other principles too, like not associating your worth with material things, destroying the ego, not taking value from people, seeking higher purpose, letting things (feelings, attachment to stuff) go, not being outcome-dependent, etc.

        This is more in the advanced stages after you’ve done your dancing monkey fuzzy hat time. 🙂


      • In that case, I admire PUAs and MRAs for very different reasons. PUAs are good at adapting. MRAs are good at rebelling and going against the flow (can be good). Both are useful to do, depending on the situation.


    • Glad you replied to my post. It wasn’t meant to be insulting and there was no need to react so negatively.

      “No. Game is about conveying your masculine allure in the best possible way so that women experience pleasure in your company”
      Yeah, maybe I worded that badly, I just meant that you have to pass the ASD and her fear of STDs and all that. Of course it’s more than just passing those.

      “All men are trying to get women they like to sleep with them, game or no game.”
      Yes, exactly.

      “Do women not have volition? Are they empty vessels? Walking pussies, into which willpower and intent and penii are poured?
      No free woman is forced to keep doing what her man wants without her consent to oblige, unless she is physically coerced or threatened, which is not the way of game.”

      I didn’t say it was coercion, it’s manipulation. You don’t need to force someone to make them do what you want. And manipulation is a negatively charged word, but it’s not fundamentally bad.

      “Women need. Men want.”
      Ah, I would be extremely happy if some proof for that appeared, because the only men I know that don’t need sex are older MGTOWs who don’t have that much testosterone or sex drive anymore. Everyone else really does need it, and women, with their lower sex drives, are able to live without sex just fine much longer. That’s why I think no sex-needing man is truly alpha to the core (he can be alpha by your definition of course, no problem with it). Needing is beta. Where am I wrong?

      “So are women”
      Yeah, never said anything else.

      “Not solely. But involuntary celibacy is a leading indicator of unhappiness”
      Not solely, but it’s hard to be incel and still be happy. Maybe if you have little sex drive anyway, or your hamster is rationalizing it, or you’re just that strong, but most people aren’t.

      “Struggling against human nature has been the cause of so much pain and anguish”
      Agreed 🙂

      So you are pretty much agreeing with me. Not sure why you call me a troll then, you even said it yourself. If enjoying women is slavery, you don’t want to be freed.


      • Like with the weak MRA armies of straw, this is where anti-hedonism gets its bad name. Emma’s thinking is as muddled as Heartiste’s.

        There is much, much “need to react so negatively,” Emma, dear.

        Either man has volition, or he doesn’t. Either discipline is admirable, or it’s not. Those of us who have striven to master our “biological basis” (whatever Heartiste means by this) can report that he does, and it is.

        Those of you who have decided from the beginning that the effort at self-mastery is pointless — as if athletic or musical training were pointless — can report nothing except assumptions against our experience. Hence we are treated to Heartiste’s colorful first-hand testimonials that fit hedonistic fatalism, silence where they do not fit the preconception, and reversion to abstract, third-hand tautologies (social science from popular sources) when it comes to grounding his faith. With a curt dismissal of any other social possibility as the last word, as if he ever delved down this far, as if the rest of us wouldn’t notice the sloppiness and implausibility of his thinking, as if centuries of thinkers before him hadn’t asked and answered these imponderables outside of the notice of his preposterous but catchy dilettantism.


      • Cool, does it mean you’re so disciplined you can go without sex and be fine, that is, you truly don’t need women?
        What I’m talking about is a good attitude to have for a woman who wants to tone down her hypergamy. If no one is truly alpha, you really don’t need to strive to get one since that man is imaginary anyway. It’s not a fitting thing to say here though, but on a women’s forum. I’m not usually there, but you guys can use it to disillusion women and get them to sleep with you despite betaness. Might be a lame idea, but worth a try?..


      • Emma,

        OT, how can you tone down hypergamy? Is this possible? I’d appreciate any advice 🙂


      • Maya, I’m not entirely sure if it’s possible or not. I was never that terribly hypergamous anyway, so my attempts to help others get rid of it might not work that well. I will think real hard before I answer (kind of busy writing a report right now and I want the answers to be good), but I’ll get back to that. Might make a blog post about it.


      • Emma the Emo wrote: “Cool, does it mean you’re so disciplined you can go without sex and be fine, that is, you truly don’t need women?”

        No, it means it is possible to sublimate low passions that seem uncontrollable to a hormonal teenager and allow them to do our bidding rather than we theirs. It means we are not destined to be marionettes pulled on the strings of our biological urges. It means a mature intellect will eventually demand a man derive meaning from and organize his behavior around something more sophisticated than the interplay of the sexes. Life is more than a Univision soap opera.

        Further, it means calling out poseurs when they insist that their personal enslavement to biological functions is the highest any man can achieve anywhere, and so we all should act and think and talk accordingly. Life is more than seeking the ultimate orgasm or the infatuation of a co-ed, and much more than a really good bowel movement.


      • Just a note: if you’re good, you don’t get ASD or LMR or STD worries or anything. Think of it like how a family member can give you $5 and you’ll take it with no second thoughts but a stranger offering you $5 will make you hesitate wondering whats the catch, and a creepy stranger awkwardly offering you $5 might make you flat out refuse it.

        A good PUA builds the same comfort you have with close friends and family or that you had with your favorite boyfriend, but in a really short window of time.

        This is why I keep riffing on the “she saw my crappy apartment and said it wasn’t good enough for her” guys. They’re the stranger offering a $5 and don’t realize it yet.


    • Umm. Actually game allows me to get better pussy both faster and cheaper. In other words I have a lot more time and money to spend on the other shit I love.

      Game does not make you a man a slave it frees him


      • “Game does not make you a man a slave it frees him”



      • “Umm” is the affectation of a tweedy sarcastic twerp. Get rid of it, “Alpha.” HTH


      • Says the dude who finishes with HTH.
        Sarcasm gets your more pussy, you should try is sometime. Not so sure about acronyms though.


      • KAs joust skewers a passive aggressive rhetorical tactic. i have a friend who does it and it is truly a juvenile social quirk (it has an air of…valley girl to it). its contrived weakness coming from a genuinely weak source (where wit and decisiveness is lacking). that’s what makes it so annoying.

        HTH was a bit of a haughty flourish tho


      • Sarcasm ain’t passive aggressive any more than negging. Are you gay for KA or something? All your talk of jousting and skewering has me wondering.


      • gay joke! man you’re so aces. call yourself evil (not to mention the other bit which is more of a stretch) yet shriek like a wolfbagged cheerleader because you got some constructive criticism.


      • Your cartoon-character views in action yet again.


      • Game allows you to indulge in what you really NEED and can’t free yourself from, but game doesn’t make you a slave all on its own.


      • Wow you are defending this point so fiercely. It’s like your whole ego is tied up in men needing sex from you. lol You probably wouldn’t even know who you were if you stopped receiving male attention for a week.


      • I can live without much male attention for decades, and I have. It’s not about my ego, it’s the truth. Men need sex from women. It’s a great thing to remember for many reasons.


  27. Monsieur Château :

    I would be curious to get your take on the accusations of groping that the Times are riding like a bicycle to discredit Cain.

    They (the NYT) even put the photo of the accuser (who actually might have been hot when the slap-to-the ass or whatever allegedly occurred in the 90s) prominently up on their web site.

    Whatever enlightenment you can give us, as to how anti-game inhabits the poison that spews from the pages of Amerika’s newspaper of record, would be appreciated.

    Bien à vous camarade,



  28. Being new to the PUA/MRA thing, it was hard to understand the MRA vs PUA infighting. They share many common beliefs like the incredible around of misandry and destructive feminism, how the legal system fucks men over.

    To the MRM, I’d say that my understanding of game is that it is about than using the knowledge of women’s psychotic psychology against them in order to get laid. And there is nothing wrong in getting laid. Whether gamers are just betas in alpha’s clothing, to me, misses the point. Who fucking cares? If you want to get laid, there are some techniques that you can use. The idea that Game is supplication is mind bogglingly stupid. Game is about getting back and asserting our masculinity by being in charge.

    To the PUA’s, I’d say that there are men who could give a shit about getting laid. Some men want to solve quantum mechanics or solve Hume’s is/ought problem. I don’t think that makes them any less men. There are men that, like the vast majority of men, that will hate fellow men. These men are going to make the exact same mistakes employ the exact same methods as feminism with their self hatred. Well, ignore these fucks.

    I will continue to peruse both sides knowing that there is vastly much more agreement than disagreement. Sure MRM’s men that are manginas and think that playing by the women’s rules is supplication (I would use the analogy that you play the hand you are dealt and the cards women hold are some fucked up pscyhotic fucking cards). And I know that there are PUA’s who really are slaves to pussy. I am sure there are PUAs who define your manhood ONLY by how many 7 or 8 you’ve banged in your life.


  29. on November 7, 2011 at 3:50 pm Manuel Dexter

    Thank you for that link which supports the assertion that men are superior at math than women. I just finished reading the article and was surprised to read that on average, men have larger right testicles.

    I’ve always noted that my right nut was bigger than my left nut; it hangs lower. Amazing what one can discover from reading. Thank you.


  30. on November 7, 2011 at 3:53 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM)


    question fo ru!!!

    if someone is butthexting you
    and you say
    “hey someone is butthexting me!”
    does that make u a conspiracy theorists?



  31. […] checks in, kinda, on the Great Game Debate.  So does Keoni […]


  32. on November 7, 2011 at 4:33 pm tokyojesusaspie

    “Game is just learning how to supplicate to women and be a slave to women’s desires.”

    If enjoying the exquisite pleasure of a beautiful woman’s sex and love is supplication and enslavement, then I don’t want to be emancipated.

    Certain quarters of the MRA movement have a lot in common with feminists. I wonder if they are aware of the similarities?


    I see what you have in common with feminists.

    Stupid rhetoric.

    [Heartiste: Comeback of the year.]

    “If enjoying the exquisite pleasure of a beautiful woman’s sex and love is supplication…”

    Dont you mean:

    “If expending great amounts of time and effort and probably destroying your male identity in order to have sex with women is supplication…”

    [Why would I mean something that was loaded with as many false premises as you have here?]

    Did you phrase it on purpose like that or did it just come naturally?

    [Wouldn’t you like to know.]

    How is it possible that you can deny that spending time pursuing women is not supplication?

    [Ya know, if you want to meet women and fall in love some day, you’ll have to make some sort of move. They aren’t going to fall into your rickets-disfigured lap.]

    The day a pick-up artist has 100 women come to his house begging him for love and sex and he has to choose among them and reject others is the day he stops supplicating.

    [So what you’re saying is that almost every man alive is supplicating to women. Way to set the bar impossibly high so your failure with women seems like a success.]

    Until then… Keep deluding yourself.

    [Does your WoW avatar have a pockmarked ass?]

    I use game but at least I’m honest with myself.

    [That you accidentally grabbed your boner during a boss fight and shot magic missiles all over your monitor?]


    • Masterful retort.

      [That you accidentally grabbed your boner during a boss fight and shot magic missiles all over your monitor?]



      • Yeah, toady. “Masterful.”

        Grounding your weak thoughts in ridiculous anecdotal observations like, “almost every man alive” is almost as trite as the juvenile assumption that those who disagree are ipso facto social rejects. But entertaining to a certain spirit-squad sort, I suppose.


      • King A, Are you having your period, or was it just a very bad day?

        Your last posts are unbearably moralistic and bitter. Stick to the grandiloquent lectures about philosophers and stuff. Attacking the commenters on this blog won’t get you anywhere (not that you were heading somewhere anyway).


      • Since his first post, I have to admit I’ve always thought he was heading somewhere. King A, just out of curiosity, and there is no right answer, where do you come down on my favorite pasttime (doing hookers))?


    • “The day a pick-up artist has 100 women come to his house begging him for love and sex and he has to choose among them and reject others is the day he stops supplicating.”

      For the record that happens. Not 100 women, but women chase us when we get to a certain skill level and we do have to pick and choose and reject a lot of them. Your comment might be sarcasm but I actually agree that this IS the point where a PUA stops supplicating. That’s where they realize “girls want me” and they can drop the training wheels (routines and such) and build themselves back up with a solid foundation that they didn’t have when they were betas googling “how to get girls”.

      This is the full circle cycle that happens on the PUA’s journey. It’s also the stuff that people gloss over or don’t know about when theyre busy writing “Jim carey feel-good beliefs” and “omg look at this shocking NEG thing!!!!” comments/articles.


  33. So a free man should choose to eat insipid gruel rather than be slave to succulence? One may eat like a slave, but in his mind be free. That must be where the term “free shit” comes from.


  34. Beginners / intermediate pick up guys usually do supplicate horribly to get the lay. They lie, change their identity on a whim, and pursue lost causes far too much. They talk too much, give too much value, and their life revolves around chasing pussy.

    It’s not till they get better that they can get laid without diminishing themselves as men. I think that’s what the MRAs are getting at.

    Well, I hope so. That’s what I’ve been writing about recently.


    • 100% true. There is a cycle to going from beta through PUA to alpha that people who skim the surface don’t really understand. They just see the routines and don’t get how those are training wheels so they label it supplication.

      And to be fair, a lot of PUAs don’t actually get past the dancing monkey stage and those are the blatant fuzzy hat “so I was saving my stripper girlfriend from snakes…” guys that you can easily pick out of a crowd at the bar and like the Horse Girl story way back on the Chateau those guys come across as supplicative and weird.

      But just as any martial artist learns that getting your blackbelt isn’t the end, it’s where you’re finally ready to really learn, the game goes far beyond “who lies more, men or women”.


    • on November 7, 2011 at 9:44 pm (r)Evoluzione

      True, and well-said, Krauser. A certain level of self-development must be attained for men to truly express authenticity and original thought in any field.

      A freestyle skier or gymnast must master the basic movements of the art, before innovation can occur.

      This is why martial artist learn forms and kata’s–nothing more than memorized routines and serial, pre-choreographed phrases of movement.

      Ultimately, to move from intermediate to advanced, all forms and kata’s must be forgotten as one spontaneously creates original movements and expression.


  35. Many male haters of game can be summed upped as follows:

    Easier to rationalize game away then go through the painful changes and work needed in order to learn and internalize game.

    People love to say “gamesmen put pussy on the pedestal by spending so much time working towards it! Pussy rules their lives!”

    Wake the fuck up. If you are a man, YOU WERE BORN OBSESSED WITH PUSSY.

    Gamesmen have merely figured the most efficient way to get it.

    Some make pussy their sole obsession and don’t peruse other pursuits so vigorously. However, many more make the learning of game just another tool in their arsenal towards living the life they want to live.

    People love to hate on others and try to hold other people back. It’s easier to try and hold others back than move forward yourself.


    • 100% agree.

      Game isn’t an easy road. Aside from the girls aspect of it it required a lot of self-analysis and looking at your personal beliefs and all those little ego-protecting tidbits you hid at the back of your mind to avoid dealing with, and then you have to not just accept that you might not be perfect or a good person or living up to your potential as a human being let alone as a man, but then you have to work on those parts of you and fix them.

      On top of all that you have to deal with seeing the world thru a new lens and seeing the shitty side of humanity in the married girl who gives you head in the bathroom while her husband is looking for her, the way men AMOG and treat eachother like shit, the way people lie to themselves about their motives and backwards rationalize crappy behavior with “it just happened” and avoid taking responsibility for their actions.

      Going out one weekend and asking a girl if her nails are real and getting shot down does not make you an experienced PUA who can brush it all off ass pussy obsession/supplication. Stuffing feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.


  36. [Pay? I’m with Roosh. I keep my cost-per-lay as low as possible without coming across like a cheapskate. It helps weed out the genuine loving girls from the golddiggers.] — this is good

    While that is a quote that only points at the downsides of learning how to be socially competent you guys are missing the point as well!

    People want the most out of their time in life, and parsimony is the key to that.

    It isn’t just cost per lay, really it has nothing to do with laying at all. Thats fixating on a primal urge. Its exploring the depths of your primacy that leads to new frontiers of glory. Its trading your good enough for great at the best time possible.

    Men and women do the same thing literally, and furthermore, we all use the same system. Your just not present to it.


  37. There doubt. Our gain.


  38. MRAs are the kinds of guys who wear a backpack in their forties.

    To their aspergersy minds any self-improvement just feels like an interruption of their rigid aspergersy routine.

    Further, it is a perfect example of a Nietzschean inversion of values. Their ascetic ideal is having no interaction with women and championing it as morally superior. Timid and petty. It is an ideology of ressentiment. Just like a poor person sees richness as inherently evil and poorness and inherently holy, they see women as inherently evil and celibacy as inherently virtuous.

    “[People] would rather will nothingness than not will.”


    • Everyone who gives up sex or any vice for that matter has to tell themselves they’re morally superior otherwise it seems foolish.


  39. They seek certainty because they lost (their footing). That’s why people get so activated when you break the rules. Kings break rules. The only use of power should be to kill weak rules and revel in the energy that is released in the chaos.


  40. For what it’s worth:

    I’ve been heavily involved in various PUA communities over the years and no one gives a shit about MRAs. There’s no war, there’s no “hey what do you guys think about what this MRA said?”. Like, there might be some PUAs trolling their comment section or something, but seriously, probably 99% of PUAs have no idea MRAs exist.

    I gave their shit a skim and it seems fuckin weird and angry to me. PUAs don’t hate women, a lot of guys come to pickup WITH some anger toward women because their chick cheated on them or they got rejected but our teachings snuff that out quick because it’s simply not a productive mindset to have.

    The MRAs seem kind of like religious fanatics but determined to have a “no girls allowed” club to the extreme for the rest of their lives in some kind of weird attempt to punish them. It’s fuckin strange and creepy to me, but I don’t know enough about their beliefs to pass a full out judgement…hell, PUA looks strange and creepy to outsiders so who am I to talk lol

    Honestly PUAs just don’t give a shit. We understand and accept that women sometimes do fucked up things and that most of society favors them, but we’re not trying to change the system or anything. We’re fine with the system because we’ve learned how I work within it to get what we want.

    For instance we LIKE shit-tests. They weed out our competition and we know how to pass shit-tests and we know that passing them builds attraction extra fast, plus we understand the psychology of why women NEED to shit-test men. MRAs seem like the guys that would get mad and frustrated and hate women for shit-testing, from what I’ve skimmed over.

    The place both sides are coming from are probably why the two haven’t merged even tho from the outside they may both look equally misogynistic and like they SHOULD merge.

    Hazarding a guess as to why MRAs know about PUAs but PUAs don’t know about MRA: if you’re pissed at women and are looking for tools to use and discard, hurt, exact revenge, etc on them, you’ll probably stumble onto pickup theory like a bully taking up Karate to beat people up. But if you’re a guy who’s just shy and frustrated he can’t get laid but doesn’t have a hate-on, you’re likely to find PUA and never really bother looking at anything MRA-ish, like a person taking Karate for self defense won’t decide to suddenly become a bully.

    Just my thoughts. No animosity toward MRAs, I just don’t understand them lol


    • The natural reaction when one takes the red pill is anger. This blog should make it clear that it’s legitimate to be angry, not necessarily hateful.

      Angry at ourselves because we’ve been tooled as betas, angry at society because of feminism and shit, angry at biology and evolution because women are fucked up… And angry because our dreams of a perfect family life with an adoring wife are shattered by hypergamy and the divorce laws…

      Some don’t experience anger because they’ve had too many positive experiences with women. Others can manage it and still have a balanced view. And there are those who are consumed by it and want to get their revenge, either by ignoring women (useless tactic, men are not that valuable), or breaking a million hearts.

      I’m not an MRA, but I understand their anger. It’s necessary for a newbie PUA to understand them. It’s necessary to be perfectly aware of female nature and the legal climate before engaging women in the dating scene.


      • Well said. I think this whole PUA/MRA debate is silly anyway and counter productive as well. It just provides a wedge for our enemies to damage us with.


    • Hold on.

      This thread got way out of whack above because it falsely defined MRA as the kind of MGTOW or religious anti-premarital sex type whom women like to divorce and otherwise abuse by virtue of their inherent betatude.

      That might be 50% of MRAs but the other 50% of MRAs have taken over the PUAsphere and redesigned it in their image. Now we have PUA/MRAs like Heartiste (who helped a lot in his own transformation and visa versa).

      And most guys here are now PUA/MRAs if they’re smart.

      For instance, any real alpha is going to need to check IDs. Girls will lie that they’re 18 in order to fuck an alpha.

      So good PUAs put themselves in DIRE DANGER OF JAIL by virtue of being good at what they do and or alpha.

      That age of consent issue alone is why a smart PUA is an MRA.

      The Cain Sexual Harassment story also shows PUAs that they have to be MRAs to work to stop the feminist nonsense. Do alphas here really think they can expect to run for President and not have jilted pumps and dumps coming out of the woodwork claiming “sexual harassment”?

      That’s naive. PUAs face the highest likelihood of future political attacks.

      To that end, there have been 3 big feminist memes expressed by some PUAs above who don’t seem to understand that they need to call themselves PUA/MRAs.

      Criticism of Cain as a “beta” based on this Chicago woman’s story should not make you think Sexual Harassment laws are OK to remain on the books as law, because you think you would never be accused because you’re “alpha”.

      Thinking that way serves the feminists. They want “alphas” to say “We’d never get accused of sexual harassment because we’re smoother”.

      Believe me, the feminists want “alphas” to be relaxed around these laws because alphas as MRAs might actually get the laws reversed.

      Alphas are the real managers in society. They need to take over and manage the MRM, but not by whining on the Internet, rather by challenging the bad laws and getting foreign leaders and new media outlets to slam US feminism.

      It’s mentally sick to think that alphas are not subject to the feminist laws and won’t get caught up in them and punished. Alphas arguably face a higher chance and we don’t know for sure that Cain isn’t one and didn’t make a more reasonable move on that girl, which she later embellished, that worked on plenty of other women.

      It’s also scary to see some PUAs above resort to what feminists wanted men to think about things that feminists want to make illegal, such as solicitation (which now includes giving any kind of gift to a 17 year old) and anonymity (technology may force the next generation of men to identify themselves to women electronically before being allowed to speak with them) including the right to lie to women. We need to be careful when we say “Paying for sex being always beta or gamma and lying to women is always wrong.” This is what the feminists want you to say. There are circumstances when getting laid depends on a lie, such as when you’re 36 and she’s 18 but she and her parents guess you’re 29 so it’s all good for the night out on the boardwalk.

      PUAs can’t afford new laws and new invasive technology cramping their style and limiting their options.

      Any advanced PUA, who’s been in the corporate world or attracts 16 year olds, is an MRA. Or else he wants to go to jail.

      Or he’s lying about his prowess. Even an upper beta should find himself in the position of having to check IDs, or else he’s probably not even an “upper” beta. And men should not HAVE to be legally forced to check IDs with ever expanding and tightening progressive feminist laws that the religious whacko “MRAs” might actually support.

      To that end, those religious MRAs are actually the enemy of real MRAs.

      They’ve subverted a movement early on and PUAs are going to need to take over the movement for real so it can go somewhere unsubverted.

      What needs to happen is that the MGTOWs and anti-premarital sex divorced dads who dream only of the idea of having their kids back, need to be sidelined as the PUA/MRAs take over the general MRM.


      • “For instance, any real alpha is going to need to check IDs. Girls will lie that they’re 18 in order to fuck an alpha.”

        …yes, we do check IDs. Part of the reason gaming at bars is popular is that presumably bouncers have to check the girls’ IDs so we know they’re of age. But even then if a chick looks young you just say “lemme see your ID” and check it, it’s no biggie. If you’re super paranoid you just stay away from chicks under 25 altogether.

        If you’re gaming at a mall or something, and she turns out to be underage you just go “oh sorry lol” and back off, no one cares.

        wtf does following the law have to do with MRA? Are you saying you want to fuck kids?

        “PUAs face the highest likelihood of future political attacks.”

        …pretty sure not a lot of PUAs care about becoming politicians. Is this seriously a concern? That’s like not going outside because you might trip on a crack on the sidewalk and hit your head on the ground and die. Like, ya that can happen, but it’s not something everyone should be worried about.

        “They want “alphas” to say “We’d never get accused of sexual harassment because we’re smoother”.”

        This is true. It’s why PUAs discuss avoiding and dealing with Buyer’s Remorse, Last Minute Resistance, Anti-Slut Defense, etc. Most guys don’t know shit about that and, like Caine, are creepers who get accused of sexual harassment. A guy with good game doesn’t have girls who hate him.

        “Alphas arguably face a higher chance and we don’t know for sure that Cain isn’t one”

        You do if you have game. It’s not some mystical “without a videocamera we can’t tell” secret. It’s in the way he’s handled the situation, it’s in the way women have come out against him, it’s in the descriptions of his moves, it’s in his general background/history with women, it’s in the eyewitness accounts from colleagues, etc.

        “It’s also scary to see some PUAs above resort to what feminists wanted men to think about things that feminists want to make illegal, such as solicitation (which now includes giving any kind of gift to a 17 year old)”

        wtf? Why are you giving gifts to a 17 year old? Is this the fucking kids thing again? There are plenty of girls 18+ out there dude…

        “and anonymity (technology may force the next generation of men to identify themselves to women electronically before being allowed to speak with them)”

        …this isn’t even a thing lol Fuck you guys are weird.

        “There are circumstances when getting laid depends on a lie, such as when you’re 36 and she’s 18 but she and her parents guess you’re 29 so it’s all good for the night out on the boardwalk.”

        You don’t need to lie if you’re 36 and she’s 18. Learn some fucking game and get out of your house and talk to some girls lol Have you ever talked to a girl?

        “Any advanced PUA, who’s been in the corporate world or attracts 16 year olds, is an MRA. Or else he wants to go to jail.”

        What? PUAs don’t want to attract 16 year olds man. In the corporate world you just follow the “don’t shit where you eat” rule where you don’t mack on your secretaries.

        “Even an upper beta should find himself in the position of having to check IDs”

        Why are you obsessed with hitting on kids?

        Man, this comment section has made the MRA thing look creepy as hell. Go out and talk to girls, they won’t leap out of a bush and smack you in the face with their vaginas while holding papers for a lawsuit in their hand. How do you guys live like this??


  41. “Marriage is just learning how to supplicate to women and be a slave to women’s desires.”
    There. Now it makes sense.


  42. Regarding Herman Cain and his obvious lack of game — spot on.

    He’s quite a specimen — a dude who oozes enthusiastic go-getter charisma but couldn’t game his way into a slutty underling’s pants to save his life.

    Inexplicable, you’d think, that a guy who can easily sell a 9% sales tax hike to the poor would fumble and bumble so much with women that he looks like a total loser in the seduction game.

    And you’re right about Clinton. His sexual rap sheet consists almost exclusively of (once) attractive women he banged or of women who falsely claimed he raped them (i.e. who later regretted letting him pump ‘n dump them).

    A sexual success story, essentially. The opposite of Cain’s ham-fisted buffoonery while trying to seduce career women. What’s worse for Cain is that his failures run counter to popular notions of black men being suave womanizers, and suggests that he can’t even leverage his natural advantages without coming off as a creep.

    Most of what he apparently did doesn’t even rise to the level of “sexual harassment,” and was only “inappropriate” because he has no game, no understanding of women, and thus the hammer’s coming down on him now because he betatized himself repeatedly. If he had conducted himself in the manner of an alpha male, the women he hit on wouldn’t be destroying his nascent political career. He’s reaping the beta whirlwind.

    He truly is a special candidate, vying to be our first failed philanderer president.

    Hell, even fat-fuck Newt was able to score some young staffer poon. Herman Cain’s just pathetic.


    • Speaking of our next President (as I have been predicting for more than a month) for better or worse, Newt also has a high voice, another liability. But after seeing Rick Perry’s speech in New Hampshire, I think its clear by now that Newt is the alpha on the Republican side. Romney is too worried about coming across as a nice guy, Santorum looks like he’s still angry that short guys got more ass than him in high school and college, Ron Paul is a visionary who would’ve gotten a lot of ass if he was a professor instead, Gary Johnson can’t even look straight at a camera, so that leaves Newt. Another fat guy with appeal to women, along the lines of Chris Christie.


    • That’s quite an extrapolation!

      Start with a no-detail hatchet job then get it “substantiated” by some broad that Gloria Allred parades before the cameras – but no questions, PLEASE! – and conclude the man never gets a taste of poon except from his ball-and-chain wife.

      Plus, it is an inversion of the intended effect of the Lefties which is moral repugnance in the voting public.

      BTW, Bill Clinton’s favorite sex act was active oral sex, at least according to a book I read. Since it wasn’t on the internet, I believed it..


    • From your link:

      Update: After Jacqueline’s message went live, Jezebel received this response from Ashley Madison founder and CEO Noel Biderman:

      The best thing that could’ve happened to this woman is that we used her in our ad. Despite what she may want you to think, she is reaping the press for her own pornography website. She took these pictures and signed the release knowing that they were not just for ‘personal use.’ However, if she can get great publicity from this, all the power to her.

      I love the bolded part in the message above. You can tell Noel has game.

      As for the fattie, she is praying desperately for fat-acceptance to take off. Helps with the slow emotional death, you know.


  43. There’s a growing rift between “MRAs” and the self-styled “PUAs” that is vaguely reminiscent of the ugly imbroglio between “granola lesbians” and the “urban sophisticate lesbians” that tore geopolitics asunder during the early 1990s. Let’s keep a common voice and not follow their model towards stylistic minutae and eventual irrelevance.


    • You make some good points, Uncle E. I hope we can keep some semblance of unity as we work out these little details.

      Also, you may be overstating the effects & risks of this ‘rift.’ I’ve known quite a few lesbians, and I’ve never heard of such a rift. It doesn’t seem like it really affected their clout all that much.

      Nonetheless, I hope that we can hash this out with a minimum of collateral damage.


  44. Feminist women (yes its an oxymoron) now crying about twitter

    the white knight protectors arise in impotent fury in the comments section
    to protect their ball protectors


  45. Feminist: “You wont fuck us?! You must be a beta and have a small penis”

    PUA: “You don’t chase pussy?! You must be a beta and have a small penis”


    • Ass. Can’t spot the difference between getting laid and being chained to some marriage contract to a shrewd, heh?


  46. Feminists and PUAs are so damn threatened that other men enjoy other activities.

    Women damn have an inherent right to my time.


    • Feminists and PUAs are so damn threatened that other men enjoy other activities.

      Women damn have an inherent right to my time.

      No one’s stopping you from taking your ball and going home.

      But realise #1 it isn’t normal and #2 you can’t have the sex/love of a woman (if you choose) without the shackles of marriage or even a formal relationship.


  47. This PUA vs MRA is overdone, a few MRA zealots and PUA dick wavers throwing bombs at each other. The philosophy underlying both groups is do not let the culture and women turn you into a sucker. depending on what your personal (pussy lust) to (I am sick of their shit) ratio is at any given time probably will determine which ideology you graviate to. My observations are that some of the alpha macho dick wavers over here are really holding on to the little PUA/MRA flare up. Maybe the trash talk has something to do with the ego in preparation for the chase/hunt.


  48. It doesn’t matter how fast you go as long as you don’t stop , why shouldn’t men change themselves? have you met men? on average we are the nastiest living beings on the planet.

    I’m not changing myself “for women” I’m changing because I have an internal need to do so , to improve, to grow , to think if that results in more attractive women being interested in me , fuck it, I’ll take one for the team.

    game or game theory is not specific to men or sex its just a framework . it can be applied to anything with variable outcomes.


  49. on November 8, 2011 at 1:53 am Reinhard Heydrich

    “He said I needed to be a douchebag drug dealer type of guy, because he said you can be that good guy but you’re not going to pull the girl and then at the end of the night it’s some guy whos aggressive than you who gets the girl. That’s the thing, Jeffy said he’s given up being a good guy. He has good intentions for the girl but he knows he has to be a thug to get her. And that’s why girls end up sleeping with a lot of bad guys.”

    You bitches, as the proprietors of the Chateau have elucidated exceedingly succinctly, need only look into a mirror. I know there are dozens of you lurking out there, right now. Listen up, dear.

    “Jeffy said he’s given up being a good guy.”

    I quoted and repeated just in case you bitch a** mutha f***as didn’t get it the first time. Do you see what the f**k is right there? Do you see why “There are no good men left?”

    I don’t intend to belittle your limited capacities for logic and reason…but g*******t, it’s right there.

    Ich bin der Hammer dieses Blog…


  50. This schism only began because Elam forgot what it’s like to be crazy-horny.


  51. In my experience of MRA circles, there seem to be two types who dislike Game. There are the social conservative, often religious, types who are still to some extent emotionally attached to the idea of women being less carnal and more moral, and who dislike more than anything the fact that Gamers/PUAs are holding up the dirty linen of women’s less than admirable sexual nature for all to see. These are closely related to father’s rights supporters. They tend to have a beta-first mentality that men who do the right thing and contribute to society are more deserving of being given a break ahead of the players and alphas.

    Then there are the nerdy beta types who are so socially inept that they tend not to get laid much, who resent the alpha males who get a lot of pussy, and would prefer to pretend that their lack of success in the sexual marketplace is part of some principled decision to not compromise their values and integrity for the sake of getting some. Feelings of moral superiority are too often the psychological refuge of the failure.

    I am not 100% pro-Game. I am generally pro-Game, but with some reservations on a few things. I am not opposed to have a critical discussion of Game. But many of those who oppose Game are so irrationally contrary and hostile to the whole thing that it is obvious they have their noses out of joint about something and are incapable of being even remotely objective.


  52. It turns out this Sharon Bialek has been a Cain groupie all along:

    If this is true, it was Gloria Allred who was sucker punched.


  53. From Yahoo News:

    And Bialek said she decided to go public at this time mostly because her 13-year-old son told her to.

    Looks like this blog hasn’t done enough yet to create men out of post-pubescent boys going through the school districts. The kid was white knighting to his mother.


    • That kid might be white-knighting there, but he must also be reasonably dominant to be able to tell his mom what to do.


    • Either that, or he was just cooking up an excuse to get her out of the house. The stupid cunt has been unemployed for 13 years, the kids’ entire lifetime. Imagine having that bimbo around virtually 24/7, without even fucking her.


  54. Why the fuck do you insist on calling any random quote probably taken from someone’s facebook status a “meme” anyway?


  55. If PUA is just purely a system or lifestyle code then MRA should just go home happy that less will be trapped in marriage and leave it.

    Is feminism rooted in the politics of cultural corrosion? Or is it something else…


  56. It’s ironic that the OT try to make himself like a “moral superior man” that mra¡’s arguing that “mra is about revenge” and game about “mutual pleasure” or something like that. And, If that is the truth, so what? It’s no more fun to punish, degrade, use and discard the weaker sex?

    Ask yourself: what a true Dark Triad man will do? hehe

    You know. OT don’t have any moral foundation no claim about “good” and “bad”.


  57. A true Alpha: a PIMP. That is a true Alpha.

    A PUA? well, is not bad, he use whores for free… but a pimp win the contest any day.


  58. And you aren’t coherent.

    From a egotistical point of view, is in your best interest that most males in the world don’t have a share of your “secret knowledge”. After all, this will lead to more competence.

    You have a monetary gain for teaching game? Or is only a strategy to raise your status among MEN? That sound a little gay to me, hehe.


  59. If I find a formula to convert lead into gold, you better bet that i not going to share it with the world.

    But, in game…. it’s seem like a contest, no to bed 9’s and 10’s, It’s sound like a gay ego contest between game practitioners. Game only have sense because you can show your 9’s and 10’s to OTHERS MALES. The only source of real status is your rank among other males, that is what game is saying?


    • Neither game nor being alpha has anything to do with acquiring status with other men. Only a female could fail to understand that it’s all about the physical appearance of the women one gets and how that effects the pleasure of the male organism.