“Day Bang” Review (Plus Day Game Thoughts)

I have a question for the men reading this post right now. How much time did you spend in a bar or nightclub this past week? Answer honestly to yourselves. One hour? Five hours? Ten? Or no time at all? Now, ask yourselves, how much time did you spend everywhere else — the supermarket, the gas station, the bookstore, the office, the bus stop, at a restaurant, the coffee shop, the sidewalk, a music festival, the mall, the park, the beach, the train, the pool, etc?

You should see where I’m going with this. Most of the girls you cross paths with will be outside of bars and nightclubs. The largest reservoir of pickup opportunity is everywhere that isn’t a bar or nightclub. PUAs call this day game, for short. If maximizing your efficiency at meeting and bedding women (and maybe a future girlfriend or wife) is your goal, then you need to learn the art of the day game pickup.

Day Bang, a guide to daytime pickup, is Roosh’s latest offering, and it stacks up well to Bang, his first game book. Technically, the writing is sharper and clearer than his first book, minus a few grammatical typos. It is also blessedly free of well-worn community jargon, so you get the impression that you’re reading a cool guy talking to another cool guy in a natural setting, instead of a reformed geek giving a seminar in a hotel conference room. The book is a breeze to read and stresses practical advice as much as theory, which is to be commended. There is enough game theory in circulation, and while having a theoretical underpinning for the reasons why game works is critical to building your inner game and strengthening your resolve, ultimately it’s the field-tested tools of the trade that are going to motivate you to get out there and put it all to work.

Roosh is a proponent of indirect game, where you don’t state your intentions up front like you would do with direct game. He is especially adamant that direct game is a poor strategy for daytime pickup, for sensible reasons he outlines in his book. As he writes:

The bottom line is that there are girls who will reject your direct game that would have eventually fucked you had you gone indirect, but not the other way around.

I’ve read good arguments for and against direct and indirect game, so I can’t definitively tell you that one is better than the other in any given circumstance. (For instance, some PUAs say that direct game is more suitable for girls walking down the sidewalk because you only have less than a minute to make your pitch. Roosh does acknowledge that situations similar to this might call for direct game, but he also points out, correctly in my opinion, that number closes from direct approaches tend to result in more flaking than those from indirect approaches.)

All I will say on this hot-button issue is that I agree with Roosh’s perspective because indirect approaches better match my personality and vibe, and as a result not more than 5% of all my pickup attempts have been direct. So I don’t have a wealth of direct game experience to make a reliable comparison. If you’re new to the game, you should focus on indirect game. Direct game is simple to learn, but hard to master, and you have to be comfortable with lots of outright rejection. Although the time and energy investment with indirect game is greater than direct game, in the end you will achieve more consistent dating results with the indirect approach.

Fundamentally, day game is not much different than night game. You still have to approach, intrigue a girl, play a bit of hard to get, raise your value, and close with a number or continue the conversation with a venue bounce (aka “insta-date”). But there are some subtle, yet important, differences in how you should approach a girl during the daytime versus the nighttime.

Roosh explains these differences in his day game model. Quote:

My model has three main components. The first is the opener. It will be something basic, disarming, and natural enough that it doesn’t scare away the cat. I think you’ll be both amused and pleased at how simple they are. The second component is rambling, where we build attraction by being interesting instead of cocky. Using juicy pieces of bait, we’re going to display our value in a casual way that intrigues her and makes her want to learn more. The last component is Galnuc, a system that personalizes the interaction and helps you get the number (or more).

Two points to make about day game. As Roosh says, girls are more skittish during the day. You simply cannot approach the majority of girls with the same flirtatious gusto during the day that you do at night and expect equally good results. Second, the cocky/funny banter and negs that work so well to lower bitch shields in a nightclub are going to strike a girl as weird or insulting when she’s browsing through a discount table of cookbooks or hurrying to catch a bus. (Not that there isn’t room or need to be cocky/funny in a daytime setting; the caveat is that it’s better to deploy the big neg guns after you’ve eased her into a fruitful conversation.) A more refined, oblique approach is needed for day game, where your flirting and cockiness is toned down and your plausible deniability is ratcheted up. You must master the art of the “slow boil”, as he calls it.

Roosh gets into the exact types of daytime openers to use on girls in specific situations, and they are crafted to sound almost boring, yet maximize the odds that she will be open to continuing the conversation. For example:

She’s writing something in beautiful cursive on pages that have floral borders. She’s using what seems to be an expensive ballpoint pen. What’s the elderly opener? In this case there are two possibilities. Your instinct may be to ask, “What are you writing?” but remember, that’s personal in nature and not likely to get a warm response. She may think of you as a nosy man trying to gain access to her closet of secrets. The best elderly opener from this situation is, “Excuse me, is that a good pen?” You’ll then inquire about the brand, the color of the ink, its width, and if it’s comfortable to hold for long periods of time, all with a serious expression on your face. Almost pretend you’re a pen salesman on the first day of the job, doing research in order to eventually sell it to other people with a long-term goal of having a successful pen career.

Good stuff. And proof that you can productively talk about almost anything with a girl as long as you say it with confidence.

What about segueing from the opener? Roosh covers that, too.

I have a good idea of one way I’d segue out of pen conversation: I’d make a brief comment about how it’s important to have a suitable pen for “my career.” If I did a proper job with the chat and she was open, she’d either ask about my job or respond with how pens are important to her, which would allow us to start talking about something else.

Like Bang, Day Bang is filled with this sort of readily accessible and easily adapted pickup advice, some of which Roosh gleaned from his time with students taking his pickup workshops. But be warned: if you haven’t read Bang, you are likely going to be somewhat lost reading Day Bang. Consider Day Bang more of an adjunct to Bang, a continuation of the series, rather than a standalone book for newbies. You’ll want to get the first book under your belt before you tackle Day Bang.

There’s much more covered in Day Bang, in generous detail (conversations are often replayed exactly as they occurred in real life), including how to respond to or initiate eye contact, coffeeshop and public transit logistics (with helpful diagrams), street pickup, clothing store pickup, bookstore pickup, pre-openers, optimal facial expression, voice tonality, calculated pauses, body positioning (you should never face the entrance of a venue because you want arriving girls to settle in before you hit on them, and you want to be able to see them leaving), baiting the girl to ask you questions, “going personal”, fitting your style and vibe to your target demographic, the value of ambiguity, the art of rambling, closing, and his GALNUC system (GermanAgeLocationNameUsuallyCool), among others.

I thought the book was excellent on openers, logistics and rambling but maybe not quite as comprehensive on closing and follow-up dates (this is where having read Bang will help you). Nonetheless, while the game theory isn’t groundbreaking or heretical in Day Bang (female nature hasn’t changed in ten years), Roosh’s presentation of the theory, and practical application of it, is. In my opinion, it’s not a stretch to consider Bang and Day Bang worthy entries to the canonical game literature, right up there with Mystery Method and Magic Bullets. You read Roosh’s advice, and you can actually see yourself saying it.

More information on Day Bang here.

PS: Roosh’s stories about his time with his younger 14 year old brother were heartwarming. I wish there were more of them. It must be a great feeling to properly guide a young man to understanding the nuttiness psychology of women.

PPS: It’s inevitable that you will eventually tire of the nightclub scene. Nightclub enthusiasm tends to peak for men in their early 20s, and gradually wane after that. If you plan on living a fulfilling, exciting life sharing the company of beautiful women, it is in your interest to see the light on day game and learn it well. Life is full of change. Embrace it.





Comments


  1. Hmm….sounds interesting, but I doubt I’ll read it. Seems way too technical.

    I don’t think I’ve ever booked a chick with an innocuous opener. A really hot chick will sniff out a line like “What pen is that?” from a mile away. You won’t be the first guy to take that approach and you won’t be the last.

    Personally, I’m a big fan of drawing fish into my pond and then throwing TNT in that b*tch. It’s far easier to throw a house party, mingle with girls you already know, and then pivot to girls you’re interested in. In my 30 years of experience, I’ve learned that most girls need some type of “authentication” (unless you’re 6’4+ with magic eyes).

    In practice, “day game” is just as inefficient as night game. I think you’re better off working to make women come to you (running for office in some organization, DJing, hosting parties) than you are hitting on girls at random locations.

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    • The topic of women coming to men has been discussed before, brothers are more likely to naturally attract women with jungle fever, rich guys with gold diggers, etc. But if that’s your ambition than you’re another ant instead of the indolent fun having grasshopper.

      Game is about doing what you want and having the sex you want. Sure you can be a bartender, a DJ, a club owner or whatever, you’ll meet lots of attractive women and with a moderate amount of game get laid a lot. But the bartender only ever sees the girls from the VIP from a distance, the DJ only gets the hipster music snobs, and the club owner is getting used more often than not.

      Game is the difference between needing to give out lines of coke for a blow job and girls needing to get in line to give you a blow job.

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      • The reality, as most of us who have lived a day on this earth should know, is that random street approaches yield a very low rate of success. Women get approached all the time and many of the men who approach them are smooth-talking alphas. A friend once told me (and she’s about a 7.5) that if she slept with every “cool” guy who approached her, her number would be around 200 a year. So the odds that you get the number close on an unknown cute chick who’s accustomed to the flirtations of alpha males is abysmally low. I’d say, running tight game, the odds of getting the number close on a random hottie (7-8 range) are about 1 in 10. That’s a lot of work for one telephone number.

        So I think it’s more efficient to meet women on your terms. It’s better to throw a nice event and casually drop during the course of conversation, “I like throwing these types of things. It’s good bringing people together.” Chicks dig that. It’s even easier to go to a party where you have a number of female friends in attendance and play off of them. Give the appearance that you’re really working the room, even if you’re just walking back and forth across the room to socialize with the same six people. They won’t know that. Those are the cues women really look for. They like guys other guys like. They like guys other women like. They like guys who can get them into VIP with bottle service. They dig social status markers, so it’s best to accentuate the markers that work in your favor rather than tossing game at random chicks in the supermarket.

        Of course, if you don’t have friends to invite to parties, or you don’t have female friends to pivot off, then that’s a whole different problem. The jerks and douchebags women adore are usually unavailable to the hot chicks they bang because they’re too busy running the streets with their buddies. I really don’t think you can bed chicks without the basic foundations for a decent social life in place first.

        [Heartiste: I don’t have time to read these long comments, but just a quick note: beautiful women don’t get approached very often in the daytime. The man who puts real effort into hitting on a girl during the day (or in any non-bar or club environment) is the exception to the rule. By real effort, I mean anything that isn’t a catcall or “hey baby you got a man?” type of come on.]

        Liked by 1 person


      • seriously condense your incoherent ramblings to a paragraph

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      • “I really don’t think you can bed chicks without the basic foundations for a decent social life in place first.”

        You just like to make shit up as you go along?

        It’s obvious from your comments you’re an amateur when it comes to women, so I’ll just leave my comment here to remind readers cold approaching will get you more sex than almost any other method.

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      • [Heartiste: I don’t have time to read these long comments, but just a quick note: beautiful women don’t get approached very often in the daytime. The man who puts real effort into hitting on a girl during the day (or in any non-bar or club environment) is the exception to the rule. By real effort, I mean anything that isn’t a catcall or “hey baby you got a man?” type of come on.]

        We’ll just agree to disagree here. Bad chicks get approached all the time, everywhere. Most guys aren’t so lame that they can’t muster up the courage to utter a few words to a hot girl who happened to stroll down the frozen foods aisle at the local market. Just ask attractive women how often they get approached. While they will tell you that the majority of advances are indeed catcalls, they don’t have any shortage of attention from legitimate potential suitors who caught them at at [Whole Foods/Target/Bed Bath & Beyond] at the right time.

        [Heartiste: Wait a sec. I thought we were talking about beautiful women. Sure, cute chicks get approached way more than ugly chicks, but 9s and 10s are so hot that they’re intimidating to most men. Paradoxically, they don’t get hit on in public as much as you would expect. Venues where elites congregate are a different matter. There, the majority of men will be alpha, so 9s and 10s will get seriously hit on a lot more.]

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      • [Heartiste: Wait a sec. I thought we were talking about beautiful women. Sure, cute chicks get approached way more than ugly chicks, but 9s and 10s are so hot that they’re intimidating to most men. Paradoxically, they don’t get hit on in public as much as you would expect. Venues where elites congregate are a different matter. There, the majority of men will be alpha, so 9s and 10s will get seriously hit on a lot more.]

        I think you said “beautiful.” Besides, would you consider a 7 or an 8 to be just “cute?” The overwhelming majority of women don’t even meet that threshold of attractiveness, so when most guys are talking about running day game, this is the looks range of women that they’re focused on (7-8). There are so few 9s and 10s that most guys will never get a chance to game them anyway.

        Plus, we’re talking about day game here. These are interactions with women in more intimate settings (Barnes & Noble, etc.) where fewer eyes are watching and the cloak of rejection doesn’t weigh as heavily. I don’t think most guys would feel any more intimidated by a 9 browsing a bookshelf at B&N than they would a 7. It’s only in bars and clubs, where there are likely competitors of higher value (and other women who will be turned off by another woman’s rejection of you), that guys will hesitate to approach a 9. In that situation, I’d agree that it’s better to play it safe and go for the lower hanging fruit.

        But if there’s any guy alive who would not approach a 10 in a bookstore or coffeehouse, please just turn in your balls now. You owe it to men around the world to crack on a woman that beautiful just off of GP. I mean, how often do you end up in Game 7 of the World Series, bottom of the 9th, with the bases loaded? Go out swinging, dammit!

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      • on September 22, 2011 at 12:59 pm Obstinance Works

        I agree that social proof works in one’s favor, but how about approaching a group of high school girls in with what looks like the football team as you have absolutely no social proof and are not dressed all that well and hair is outlandish as you are running personal errands not even expecting a challenging yet irresistible chance to practice some day game? I was verbally and physically amoged to the point of a physical confrontation. I could have still pulled a number close and had huge IOIs, but wasn’t really in the mood for a lynching and really just wanted to finish my lunch and leave; though at times would have pushed it to that point.

        Most of my “game” was body language and situational awareness. Keeping a superior sophisticated frame and at the same time maintaining enough redneck cred to intimidate the hostile part of the audience demonstrated how with so many problematic factors one needs to have a strong grasp on all aspects of gaming not just his niche forte.

        Again, will be buying and reading all 3. Sooner now rather than later.

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  2. I don’t believe I’ve ever bought a game e-book, but Roosh is definiely getting my cash whatever it is — partially in support for his awesome site, and partially because many of his tactics work extremely well not just with women, but with clients, friends, family. Plus it never hurts to get some insight into things I may never have thought about.

    That all being said, when is “The Chateau: Volume 1” hitting Barnes & Noble?

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    • Was thinking the same thing yesterday. Phrases like “crossing the Rubinesquecon” are too good not to see print.

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      • Phrases like “crossing the Rubinesquecon” are too good not to see print.

        Absolutely hilarious, and so cogently true statement… major props to Heartiste.

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      • While “ratcheting up” is so bad it ought to appear nowhere. Real Roissy wouldn’t use it.

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    • I’m copy/pasting all the chateau posts.
      In case the internet breaks down, apocalypse happens and i remain the only human living on this planet, I still wanna read that shit.

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  3. Roosh writes AWESOME stuff. Down to earth, and real experiences, none of that contrived game guru bullshit. Even me, already up to my neck in pussy, read it and get stuff out of it.

    Also, I recently figured out that dating 18-19 year olds is fun and also easy, without having to stalk out highschools and junior colleges. On my blog, poorly written, but you might still get some ideas out of it – here:

    http://two.cedonulli.com/2011/09/online-dating/

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  4. While I probably won’t be buying Day Bang (at least not yet), I have great respect both for Roosh and his first book, Bang. And make no mistakes, it is easy for the average person to implement, while bringing solid improvements. I wish him all the best with this book.

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  5. I’m interested to see the book. I much prefer direct daygame (and that’s what my book is all about) but there is certainly a place for indirect – especially when the girl is in a natural location and not moving anywhere soon.

    IMHO the only way to stop a walking girl is direct. It’s just blatantly obvious to her why you stopped her so to hide it under indirect is socially retarded. However, a girl sitting nearby in a cafe or browsing the fruit stall is more amenable to indirect.

    [Heartiste: Krauser, do you have a link to your book? I’d like to take a look at it.]

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    • “IMHO the only way to stop a walking girl is direct.”

      I’ve taught dozens of students (complete newbies) and they’ve all stopped girls walking with indirect openers. And yes, they got numbers from doing that. Your statement does not match reality.

      There is a reason why my book is called “how to *casually* pick up girls during the day.” Truth is a lot of guys simply don’t want to approach saying something like “You look fucking phenomenal,” “You look stunning,” or “Your style is so amazing,” lines that are common on day game videos floating around. My readers don’t want to have to get pumped up to hit a girl with a strongly complimentary opener that is unsuited for beginners. If your audience likes that sort of game, then by all means help them out.

      I think a big problem with direct guys is that they never got indirect to work for them, so they are closed minded to its effectiveness. I at least concede that direct game had its uses, and give example direct openers in the book. A successful player has both forms in his toolbox. That said, even at advanced skill levels, I firmly believe indirect is superior for day game.

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      • I’m not ragging on indirect. I’ve ordered your book and I’m gonna try your system so I can see how it works for me. About 10% of my opens are indirect, based on things like a situational observation in a coffee shop queue. My point is that running across the street to stop a girl is OBVIOUSLY about hitting on her so that has to be acknowledged or it becomes creepy. Girls don’t like incongruent deceptive guys so pulling off an indirect opener in such a situation actually requires more skill than direct. The reverse is true in an “ambush” scenario where the girl is stationary.

        While the “you look fucking phenomenal” sort of openers do exist on the internet videos, these are NOT what I teach and mean in direct. That’s just Mode One bullshit and it forces the girl into an early fuck/don’t fuck decision which will usually be the latter. When I say “direct” all I mean is you are not hiding your intent. I actually prefer indirect-direct in which the subcommunication is clearly man/woman but the words are not openly hitting on the girl. This has the advantage of turning on a girl’s hindbrain without giving her logical forebrain a reason to cut the interaction short.

        Anyway, I’ll be checking out your book. There’s more than one way to pick up a girl in the daytime so I’m interested to see what works for you and your students.

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      • I don’t think you’ll like the book, but thanks for buying it.

        As you said, there is room for multiple models of day game. In the end they will compliment each other.

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      • Best day game opener I’ve discovered and it works in any sort of coffee-shop, supermarket, or even cocktail/buffet type situation.

        Hot girl is standing over sugars/creams in coffee shop.

        Hot girl is taking sushi from buffet line…

        Me: Hey…save some for me…

        That always gets a laugh…then you can talk about whatever it is that she’s taking..

        sugar, food, drinks, frozen peas.

        It’s the neg without any immediate sexual connotations but works every time.

        [Heartiste: Yep, that’s a good opener. You want to mute the sexual connotations of day game openers so you don’t startle the cat, as Roosh says. At night, in loud clubs or bars, it’s easier to get away with more sexual innuendo.]

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    • on September 21, 2011 at 2:58 am Obstinance Works

      Next to Mystery, Krauser and Roosh are the best 2 full-time PUAs I have ever read. I am getting their books btw.

      That line about when a man sees an interesting girl, it’s the most natural thing in the world to go up to her and talk to her is one of the most ingenious direct game openers I have ever heard.

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  6. If a girl is hot, she has many men approaching her every time, everywhere. There’s no need to go to a place where men can feel more comfortable approaching her. She has more than enough approaches daily!

    Regular girls in a nightclub can taste the same feeling that a hottie feels when she simply walks on the street.

    Bar & Nightclubs = A place where handicap men can meet needy girls.

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    • Bar & Nightclubs = A place where handicap men can meet needy girls.

      Brother – truer words never spoken…

      “Night Clubs Force Impossible Perfection”

      &

      “Attractive Men Should Avoid Nightclubs”

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      • You can’t approach women at standard condition for temperature and pressure?

        Beta tip:
        Go to a smoky nightclub, drink a lot, spend a lot of money, hear ear damaging music all night long and sleep less than half of what a healthy man needs. There’s a chance to meet a girl who went out dick hunting, because there aren’t enough dicks coming after her.

        Alpha tip:
        Look around REAL LIFE and see endless possibilities. Sleep 8h everyday.

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      • “Look around REAL LIFE and see endless possibilities. Sleep 8h every day.”

        This is critical. You don’t need a bar or club to pick up women. Such places are a crutch for men who need their “prey” all in one place. The problem is, bars and clubs may yield quantity, but they don’t necessarily yield quality. Additionally, you’re facing competition from other men, allowing the women to choose from more than just one option.

        Personally, I always hated clubs and bars. Not because I couldn’t pick up in them, but rather for the same reasons caRIOca states. Overpriced alcohol, smoke, ear-damaging music and egotistical early-20-something a-holes who think grabbing a girl’s a$$ is being a PUA.

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  7. Great review, I’ll be sure to give it a good read through within the next 2 weeks.

    @A.B. Dada

    I don’t really want to speak for Roissy but.. Chateau Volume 1 will never be released at Barnes and Noble, so everyone needs to stop asking for it. Unlike Roosh, Roissy (and colleagues) has an anonymous internet presence only (i.e. in a room full of game gurus 99.9% of readers would be able to point him out visually). This is most likely because Roissy has achieved great career success and has a lot more to lose if he reveals his cards through photographs, books, or other means. That’s how he likes it and that’s how I would like it too, if I were in the same position.

    To reiterate, stop asking for a Roissy book because it isn’t coming. Learn to appreciate someone who has reached the highest level in Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and at this point, is just giving back to the community.

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    • This blog contains more than enough material for many books anyway. Just use the archives as a valuable resource. Blogs are the new books.

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  8. The guys on that “Simple Pickup” youtube channel go direct in what seems like an effective way: http://www.youtube.com/user/SimplePickup

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  9. I’m tempted to print hundreds of copies of Day Bang and just leave them around my city for the Greater Good.

    Going about my East Coast SWPL existence (Whole Foods, hipster cafes, public transport etc) I see lots of guys furtively looking at me and then visibly chickening out on saying hello. And I see them doing the same to other girls in the vicinity – I never draw conclusions about a man’s behavior unless I see him pull the same on a hotter girl. White SWPL guys seem petrified of a day approach, whereas lower class men and black/hispanic men just go for it.

    It might just be American men though, because of the predations of feminism on the male instincts. In Europe I got approached constantly, confidently, by average-to-ugly guys who seemed more attractive because they had the balls to say “hi.”

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    • Where in Europe you got approached constantly?

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    • In Europe I got approached constantly, confidently, by average-to-ugly guys who seemed more attractive because they had the balls to say “hi.”

      Perhaps Hannah, but I am sincerely curious here: Were the ‘average-to-ugly’ dudes who were approaching really seem more attractive to you(?) – or did you primarily just enjoy the positive attention and affirmation they were momentarily providing you?

      Either way it is totally alright, but I am curious as to whether the ‘average/ugly but seemingly made more attractive’ fellows were really made more attractive enough for you to go out on a date or more with them if they asked (which I assume they did, or at least wished to?)

      [Heartiste: Having seen it in action, I do believe that women actually feel more sexual attraction for a man who demonstrates ballsiness. Women and men simply have different attraction triggers.]

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      • I was only traveling for a week, which would make any dates or encounters into one-night stands, which don’t hold much appeal for me. If I had been living there for a few months I would have accepted some of the approaches. Mini-relationships aren’t actually less slutty, but they’re more pleasurable for me.

        But: yes, the effect was remarkable. My more masculine side (the side that cares greatly about physical attractiveness of a mate) was evaluating them and saying: they’re not that handsome. Yet I could feel the magic being cast, I was definitely tingling and not just at the validation. It was a feeling of admiration, like “wow this guy isn’t a wimp,” and that translated directly into a kind of physical excitement. Heart beating fast, skin flushing, I felt like jumping up and down with pom poms, etc.

        When a cute guy makes eyes at me and I can tell he WANTS to approach and then acts like a scared middle schooler . . . I feel a physical deflation or wilting. Energetic contraction rather than expansion.

        [Heartiste: This is a very good description of what emotions go through a woman’s head when she is confronted by a man with balls, and his opposite, the man who’s too scared to go for what he wants. Rare, but some women like yourself are capable of accurately assessing their feelings and what causes them. Men should read this and understand that Voltaire’s famous line holds as true today as it did back then: “Give me five minutes to talk away my ugliness and I can bed the Queen of France.”]

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      • Hannah and any other fem readers out there looking to roll their own alpha,

        You know you don’t have to be completely passive in that process. I spent a lot of years getting stuck in that “scared middle schooler*” stage. Since I’ve learned game, the difference is absolutely unbelievable.There are several women who would love to have me now who could have had me then but were too turned off by the “scared middle schooler.”

        They could have grabbed me and set me down the right road. That’s what my mother and grandmothers did and it worked out for them.

        * – doesn’t necessarily mean he’s too scared to go after what he wants in general, just you. The flip side is that if he’s a not a little nervous at first, he’s probably not that into you. And it isn’t a permanent condition. There’s a reason its called encouragement.

        Whatev. Men are learning to fake it.

        The real thing is better.

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      • Wonderful Reply! I truly mean this.

        However, the problem is that for many women in the past generations, the beta male and maybe even the greater omega male were good enough. Now all they want is Alpha all the time maybe with some beta qualities. If you’re lucky, some may want the greater or middle beta male after they’ve experienced enough pump and dumps by the Alpha males these days, but it’s usually for some desire to achieve some companionship, support and babies in a long term relationship after the Alphas ravished these same women. Now even the greater omega and the lesser beta are held in the greatest contempt as human beings by most women. Remember, I’m probably being overly generous and kind about women’s current behavior.

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      • That’s the symptom. I don’t think we’ve yet gotten a full handle on the cause or the most effective general cure that treats that cause instead of just the symptoms (that’s game).

        Hannah is doing what Dalrock calls “Judging the Performance” instead of fully participating in her own life.

        Good way to end up in the cat food business. The question is how she got that way. Feminism is a necessary but not sufficient cause.

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      • However, the problem is that for many women in the past generations, the beta male and maybe even the greater omega male were good enough.

        Now even the greater omega and the lesser beta are held in the greatest contempt as human beings by most women. Remember, I’m probably being overly generous and kind about women’s current behavior.
        @doclove (*Is this the same ‘doclove’ who has a website and wrote a bunch a books on the subject of dating…?)

        doc,

        I think you will, as all the other Brothers and Sisters at the Chateau here, will find this of interest:

        And to make a long story short, women feel attraction for such masculine men, because for survival, women have needed MEN who were courageous and tough. Life was pretty rough for humankind for most of our history. A woman needed a MAN. And today, emotionally, in their DNA, women STILL carry this legacy of our human history. But today, in the “Western World” women are MORE POWERFUL than they have ever been in history.

        Now, before anyone jumps to conclusions, let me make it clear: I am NOT saying this is a BAD thing.

        However, since attraction is BASED on the dynamics of power between a man and woman, it would be LUDICROUS to ignore the effect of these social developments on the situation between men and women today. ESPECIALLY when you consider that MOST MEN are ACTING toward women AS IF THEY WERE STILL LIVING IN 1951.

        Let me tell you something:
        That behavior has only become a formula for disaster in the last couple of generations.

        You see, in 1951, if you saw a woman on the street, or in a shop, and you complimented her, you would NOT be immediately categorized as UNDESIRABLE “DESPERATE GEEK”.

        Why?
        Because the average man relative to the average woman was far more powerful. He earned the bulk if not all of the money, he had far more rights and privileges, etc. Also, there was really no such mainstream activity called “dating for fun”. In general people married far, far earlier, they were dating for marriage. (Of course there were exceptions to the rule, but I am talking about in general.)

        This meant that women were thinking about a man’s long term qualities as well as his “sexiness”. It was not a “singles culture” like today, where nothing need last more than a day. Okay, so do you see what is going on here?

        Since men were far more powerful relative to women than today, “nice” behavior was interpreted far differently. Buying a woman flowers on a first date, or chocolates, or even telling her “I love you” after just a few weeks was not the KISS OF DEATH that it is TODAY. TODAY, women already have TONS of power – education, careers, politics, etc. PLUS, most men have bought into the “GUILT TRIP” that men are BAD, nothing but sex hounds, who are just trying to use women. So we end up with men who are kissing women’s asses, in order to “PROVE” that they are not the psychos that women have made us out to be.

        […]

        http://www.alovelinksplus.com/advice/the_dating_wizard/how_todays_woman_thinks.htm

        *I hope that Heartiste can do a whole seperate post on the vital Truths this article delves into… .

        Like


      • Reality Check,

        I agree with Heartiste. At three separate instances that I can remember I was approached by two men together, one good-looking and the other bold. In each case the bolder was more viscerally attractive, even though I was consciously rooting for the attractive guy to win me. Its a very surreal experience!

        And I did end up dating the bolder one in two of those instances.

        Like


      • Reality Check,

        I agree with Heartiste. At three separate instances that I can remember I was approached by two men together, one good-looking and the other bold. In each case the bolder was more viscerally attractive, even though I was consciously rooting for the attractive guy to win me. Its a very surreal experience!

        And I did end up dating the bolder one in two of those instances.

        Risable,

        I completely trust your sincerity here – you made me a true believer – many thanks from your personal perspective on this matter.

        *See – men and women can really help eachother out – to our mutual benefit if we only tell the Truth to one another

        Like


      • Reality Check,

        Most women do not intentionally lie when they say what they want from men. They honestly can’t verbalize it. I know I couldn’t before I was introduced to game. The key to always remember when a girl tells you what she wants (hat-tip to Vox Day) is that she wants those things from an alpha. She can get the exact same treatment from 2 different men, 1 beta, 1 alpha and it will be the alpha who gets her 99.9% of the time. She very likely will have a difficult time explaining why she picked one over the other. She will likely say something about confidence and poise and that is as far as she will be able to explain it.

        Like


      • Ok fine there Stingray, and I of course overall agree with ya there, and your overall assessment of the situation…

        *however, like many of the other ladies here in the discussion are saying (Hannah, Risible and Neecy for example) if any man is bold enough in his approach to a lady, she will seemingly find him attractive – or at least his boldness will make him more attractive, whatever his looks – and presumably, his ‘alpha or beta’ status.

        Or does boldness in a (putative) ‘beta’ make him really an ‘alpha’ – at least to the woman of his momentarily targeted desires…?

        [Heartiste: Boldness = alpha. It’s a defining characteristic.]

        Like


      • [Heartiste: Boldness = alpha. It’s a defining characteristic.]

        Fair enough Brother – but is there a ‘law of diminishing returns’ here, i.e. would a ‘george costanza’ type of fella be made into an alpha merely because he boldly pursued women he found attractive?

        [Heartiste: At the least he’d be made into less of a beta.]

        Like


      • [Heartiste: At the least he’d be made into less of a beta.]

        LOL – I don’t know if that is possible for ‘ol george from Seinfeld (and his real-life ilk) – since the costanza character was, probably, more of an omega than a beta… but I digress.

        *I would still like to hear from Stingray on whether if a ‘beta’ gives the ‘exact same treatment an ‘alpha’:

        She can get the exact same treatment from 2 different men, 1 beta, 1 alpha and it will be the alpha who gets her 99.9% of the time.

        …does this contradict what the other ladies (and yourself Heart) are are saying: that *boldness* on the part of a ‘beta’ means he is really an alpha – or at least a ‘greater beta’ and hence appreciably attractive to many/most average women (which should be above and beyond ‘good enough’ for most American women – who are the female equivelant of their male ‘beta’ counterparts through and through).

        Like


    • An excellent idea!

      Like


      • Er.. my bad! being newbie and all….

        “An excellent idea!” …. this was in response to Hannah’s idea of distributing copies around her city for the Greater Good.

        Like


    • I tended to do a lot better, particularly in the SWIPPL-esque areas of the US, when I realized that I wasn’t going to be arrested or beaten (or even humiliated, usually) for speaking to an attractive woman.
      Too many men have had a fear of the consequences of normal sexuality beaten into them over the last 30 years or so.
      In general, most women would like, I think, or at least briefly tolerate, a man approaching them. Even the few who respond with hostility can’t really harm us for normal behavior.
      In general, it’s only the women we know well, whom we’ve devoted our resources and efforts to for years, who will harm us. Strangers are generally harmless, to men.

      Like


    • Hannah,

      I experience the same thing and it can be frustrating – its definitely a result of feminism. What people fail to realize is White guys (American) are more directly affected by Western Feminism which “told” them they wanted nice, respectful men who gave women their space. So they have been doing what White women asked them to do, yet find they are missing out and not being rewarded for being “the nice respectful guy”.

      White guys I find are not as direct and even some clam up when they are talking to a girl of interest. It can be frustrating but I do understand why they do this – its more cultural than innate due to directly being affected by feminism more than other races of men.

      OTOH of course Black men and Hispanic men will be more direct with women b/c they were not as directly affected by feminism and come from more masculinized “macho” type cultures.

      Like


      • Neecy, your articulate empathy & insight in this comment is refreshing & welcome.
        That excessive caution was my past. I was defenseless against the risk of being shamed; too ready to feel too guilty.
        Discovery & liberation was thrilling, but damn, so many wasted opportunities behind me — the rotten consequence of cultural bullshit brainwashing.

        Like


      • Lazy Guy,

        I do understand 🙂 Many women don’t really seem to think about this on a deeper level, but its true. Culture plays a role in how most men act and respond. Men across the board all have the same nature. but when you throw in culture and its variations, it can change the raw nature of men for better or worse.

        Also, many men today have heavy female influence very early on in life (moms, teachers, etc) and are taught from female persepctives on how to treat women etc. While the intentions may be good, its not always accurate coming from a female.

        Like


      • Your responses are wonderful. I second lazy guy. I seldom see or hear women think, act or feel compassionate to the less fortuneate men in the Sexual Market Place(SMP) or a lesser man on any other human and especially male charactersitic or behavior you can measure for that matter. The Fifth Horseman(TFH) said at least once that (WESTERN) women have a tendency to regard a lesser man especially those who are low in the SMP as not fully human whose feelings can be hurt. I agree with him. You truly are an exception to the rule in this regard, and I personally appreciate it.

        Like


      • Doc,

        I don’t think women who do look down on the males who may have it harder in the SMP realize that if we had to be the hunters for mates it wouldn’t be so nice and fun. But i guess its human nature to take advantage and never be empathetic to others who have to do all the hard work when you don’t. More women need to be consciously aware of this – I never want to have to be (as a woman) in the position of the hunter. And i don’t think many other women would like that role either. So i say, go easy on the guys. as long as they are not being rude or vulgar etc., there is no need to look down or talk crap or mistreat them or make them feel stupid. That’s just my opinion. And i also don’t hang out with women who act this way when out b/c that kind of behavior bugs me.

        Like


    • Hannah — see the elevator breakdown of the chick who wrote on her blog that a guy asking her for coffee in an elevator “was like rape.”

      Multiply that times a thousand, and you will see why US White guys mostly don’t approach you. They’ve had that experience too many times, or have seen it with other guys.

      Like


    • “White SWPL guys seem petrified of a day approach, whereas lower class men and black/hispanic men just go for it.”

      And SWPL girls sleep with such how often — next to never, yes?

      “In Europe I got approached constantly, confidently, by average-to-ugly guys who seemed more attractive because they had the balls to say “hi.” ”

      And how many did you deign to take to bed? zero? one in a blue spaghetti moon?

      We don’t approach you twats ’cause you’re not approachable. Because you are twats. And don’t want to read your shitty blogs about green tea. Understand?

      Like


    • I think random people from an anglo/northern european white background just tend to be shy in general and express themselves mostly when they are drunk. And looking at cultures, by the way, it seems like shyness is negatively correlated with IQ.

      Like


  10. I have a friend who is a god honesty solid 9. 5-6, blonde, 110 lbs and very hot.

    I asked her the other day how many times a month does a guy approach her on the street with decent approach/opener non cat call. She said maybe twice a month…maybe. Doesn’t happen that much was her words.

    Now if we go to a bar, it’s like bees to honey with the guys. It’s nauseating. Dudes are all over her. But on the streets, the intimidation factor is ramped up 10 fold i guess. I was shocked when she said she didn’t get hit on in public that much. She said lots of door openings or stupid one liners, but rarely a thought out approach. It has since emboldened me to approach more in the daytime. She said that when she does get approached most of the efforts are pretty pathetic in nature. She also told me she rarely ever says no when a guy asks for her number, but that rarely ever happens. She said she’d rather just ignore his call then reject him in person.

    Solid info.

    Like


  11. Openers for pen girl:

    Handwriting is always revealing.
    My aunt wrote cursive like that. She was miliyaryy, though.
    That pen might be mightier than the sword, but I doubt it.
    The last girl I went out with said writing longhand made her daydream.

    Roosh’s approach was labored, sorry.

    Like


  12. The reason daygame is not that popular is only because the approach anxiety is crippling, when the girls don’t exude the same signs of sexual availability as in night clubs.

    I would say that the probability of a crash and burn is similar, but the probability of a flake is higher in daygame, because as Hannah pointed out, girls, being the attention whores that they are (no offense), love to be approached in casual situations, but only for ego validation purposes. A daygame number close is meaningless. A number close plus kiss close is way better.

    In clubs, the physical alpha traits (height, looks, muscularity) play a huge role for the modern urban female bang machines. I know what i’m talking about. I used to hit clubs when i was overweight, and now that i’m ripped, my success rate is way up. Plus, the noise is detrimental to an optimal game delivery.
    In clubs, I usually try to go caveman, because i’m not that eager to spend my wits on a drunk slut. The Mystery method kind of strategy is more adapted to classy bars and lounges.

    So far, for Day game, i relied on Gunwitch (you know, the-dumb-retard-who-shot-a-girl-in-the-face-but-had-interesting-pua-insights). Direct approaches, followed by quick comfort building, sexual escalation (bedroom eyes, slow talking, alpha body language). I don’t complain, it works sometimes, but i’m impatient to discover Roosh’s insights.

    Like


    • …but the probability of a flake is higher in daygame, because as Hannah pointed out, girls, being the attention whores that they are (no offense), love to be approached in casual situations, but only for ego validation purposes.

      This is what I also suspected (see my comment above replying to Hannah):

      Perhaps Hannah, but I am sincerely curious here: Were the ‘average-to-ugly’ dudes who were approaching really seem more attractive to you(?) – or did you primarily just enjoy the positive attention and affirmation they were momentarily providing you?

      …but Heartiste thinks otherwise, for some reason:

      [Heartiste: Having seen it in action, I do believe that women actually feel more sexual attraction for a man who demonstrates ballsiness. Women and men simply have different attraction triggers.]

      Like


  13. Much thanks for the review.

    I understand a main criticism I will get for Day Bang from guys already well-versed in game is that it’s indirect. The book is intended for day game beginners, who I firmly believe should start off with indirect game. If you’re a strong believer in direct, and have got it to work for you, that’s great; then you will probably not like this book.

    The direct vs indirect argument is likes boxers vs briefs. Try both, pick one that you like most, and then stock up.

    Like


    • Yes. A good way to test is see if super hot women try to ignore you as you start to say something as they approach from the opposite direction. Often they are already by me and going in the opposite direction when they process that all I was asking was for directions.

      That’s when they stop suddenly and turn and walk back to me and answer my question. I draw out more details about where I want to go.

      Then when a woman realizes I’m a nice guy, she might actually apologize for having walked by me a minute earlier.

      That’s when I’m like “Oh, that’s OK. Male stranger on the street and all that. What’s your name, I’m John.” etc.

      Like


    • I use neither boxers or briefs.

      I you use a bum squirter instead of paper, as we do here in SE Asia, you’ll find that there is no purpose to underwear.

      Like


      • Underwear is for wicking away perspiration, not for keeping dookie off your pants because of bad wiping technique. Sheesh.

        Like


      • That doesn’t make sense. Another layer of clothing will keep perspiration in.

        Your pants or shorts are just the same as a pair of boxer shorts, only they breathe MORE.

        Like


      • It’s the same as wearing socks with closed shoes. Your feet get sweaty if you don’t wear socks, though you think you’d be cooler without the extra layer of fabric covering your feet.

        You’re going to perspire no matter what. An undergarment keeps it away from your skin where it would otherwise collect and drip from. The fabric is important, it needs to be an absorbent natural fiber like cotton or a synthetic made specifically for athletic performance.

        Like


  14. You know what game coaches can’t teach? Situational awareness.

    Coached openers make the fatal mistake of assuming that every opener is ex nihilo. Wrong. When you’re next to a girl, you’re both there at the same time. Assume therefore that you’re somewhere together. If you are not an oblivious idiot, you might notice her noticing something, like the tv, or some other person. Assume then, just for kicks, that you’re noticing this stuff together. Smile as if you’re in on this, and open her from that mental attitude. You never have to overdo this, because, bonehead, you actually ARE there together.

    The best openers are acknowledgements of that. Toss in amusement and implied mastery. You can always strengthen the frame from that point.

    I’m tired of people telling the newbs that an approach is some kind of crisis. It isn’t. Don’t act as if it were.

    Like


    • Excellent point. Situational awareness is the right term.

      It’s about flow and improv and artistry. Rules and categories and rigid orthodoxies not only fail to capture the spirit of the task, they add anxieties to an already highly charged situation when our key purpose is to communicate relaxation.

      There is something sporting in the whole day-game, direct-approach, cold-open pastime. It’s exhilarating like riding dirt bikes or skydiving. You’re meeting a challenge with courage, demonstrating your worth to her and proving it to yourself. But as a seduction practice it is too on-the-nose.

      You can knock her back on her heels, overwhelm her and exploit her. Or you can ingratiate yourself into something more real and therefore more lasting. At a certain point the novelty of the thrill fades, especially as the women begin to converge into recognizable types (even as they insist upon snowflakery). To connect at the level of her uniqueness requires dedicated effort and patience, like a long game of golf as opposed to a quick trip through a snowboard half-pipe. Different aims, different pleasures.

      Like


    • Agree. Recently I got a kiss close within 15 min with an opener which was, basically, a funny reference to a drunk guy next to the girl.
      Laughs, small talk, etc, then I went with something like “I’m going to buy a beer, come with me”, another witty comment about the sluggish waiter and you got it, kiss.

      Like


  15. Hey Heartiste,

    Not sure I completely agree with you. “and you have to be comfortable with lots of outright rejection.” Is not really a fair statement. My name is Brian, I was interviewed by DD for his interview series, spoke at Cliff’s List convention, written for SoSauve, taught game and run around with Lance, Zan, Will, Brent and a few others. Lance and Zan are indirect game and good looking, Will is my brother and like me direct but funny as hell and Brent, well, he is simply a master at laconic.

    I do agree it depends on your experience and personality. If you are naturally more inclined to be laconic, then indirect game works well. I have also noticed that the better looking the guy (not me), the better indirect game works. Personally, I like to lay my balls out there in such a way that it demonstrates I am a force of nature. My rejection rate is extremely low – especially during the day.

    The point I think that is missed between direct game and indirect game is the style in how it’s achieved. For example, you are completely right about using negs until they are needed (if the bitch shield goes up) for a day approach, but the cocky funny works well – especially when it is coupled with a pattern interrupt. Most guys simply do not have the confidence to say the things I do, yet when I say them, I get results. Most guys could not walk up to a girl on the street/store/shop and ask her as the opener “Ar you bi sexual?” Yet, with confident body language, strong eye contact and a slight smirk the girls eyes light up and the game is afoot. This always leads to fun conversation and can lead sexual fast. You just have to be socially aware enough to see if you need to press forward or pull back based on her reaction.

    When dating I agreed with Roosh about getting to the lay ASAP, and direct game does that with very little rejection for me (caveat – after I became extremely confident).

    I have tried indirect game, especially a few years ago – works, but for me, it just didn’t fit my personality. It wasn’t face paced enough, tended to create girlfriends instead of a harem and felt too shallow.

    I am curious, do you have any extremely confident friends who are masters at direct game that you have observed enough to see how well it can work?

    Most Sincerely,
    Brian

    Like


    • “…tended to create girlfriends instead of a harem…”

      Wonder if there is some selection bias with direct game? Your comment made me wonder if girls who’d slide into a harem respond to direct game better. I use indirect game and always end up with girlfriends as well.

      Makes me a bit curious if the type of game impacts the relationship you get out of it. Thoughts?

      Like


      • I don’t buy that. A girl that you gamed indirectly can very well become a FWB. If you’re astute enough, you can make her sexually loyal to you while you’re getting extras on the side, but it’s too much work and drama, and she will eventuelly start seeking monogamy or leave.

        Intuitively, it makes sense. An indirect approach is a characteristic of a “serious” guy who ain’t playing games. You’re simply dealing with women’s expectations here, and as guys who took the red pill, it’s our moral duty to never surrender to women’s agendas.

        Like


  16. Could anyone speak a little more about the GALNUC system?

    Like


  17. Another incentive to buy the book is the talk about young kids. I love to teach my nephews how to be more assertive with girls. They don’t really get it yet, but i’m not giving up. The best thing you can do for a future man is to save him from betadom.
    Wish I had an uncle like that.

    Like


  18. “(and maybe a future girlfriend or WIFE)”

    Oh 🙂

    “Roosh’s stories about his time with his younger 14 year old brother were heartwarming. I wish there were more of them.”

    I wish this person wrote more about his sister – I’m really interested what does she think about him …

    I feel sorry for him, especially after reading this post: http://www.rooshv.com/the-dark-side

    Glad that you are more fulfilled than he is … “If you plan on living a fulfilling, exciting life sharing the company of beautiful women …”

    Like


  19. I ordered Day Bang yesterday from Amazon, cant wait to get my hands on it. Read Bang a while ago, concur its a real good read.

    and agree with @Clit Commander above that Heartiste is a god send to the community.

    Like


  20. Roosh’s first book is a classic- that and the mystery method

    As for our host, I think his book will be a novel, probably controversial and hopefully successful. And he’ll use another pseudonym, so we won’t join the dots

    Like


  21. on September 20, 2011 at 7:46 pm The Man Who Was . . .

    I too prefer to go direct during the day. And I almost never get rejected. And Krauser is right, in many situations you have to go direct.

    The main problem I’ve had with day game is overcoming AA without benefit of a wing or alcohol. Especially when you are first starting out. You can sometimes waste an hour or so just screwing up the courage to do your first approach. (I actually have my own extremely effective solution to this, but its not something I want to share in public.)

    [Heartiste: Tease.]

    Like


    • Either tell us or don’t mention it at all. There’s absolutely nothing good about putting that at the end of your post.

      Like


    • “And I almost never get rejected.”

      Bullshit

      Like


    • Why would you need a wingman for day game? And why would you need alcohol? You’re not storming Omaha Beach. You’re just walking up to a girl and saying, “Hey.”

      Like


    • Opener at gym yesterday:

      “Don’t fall in love with that mirror”

      Eyes light up. Unreal.

      [Heartiste: Nice. This is the classic “neg as opener“. I’ve found that the best teases are the ones that call a girl out on her vanity. Why? Because ALL women are vain, and they know it.]

      Like


      • Why ALL women are vain? Because guys want good-looking women. It would be stupid not to care about your appearance when you know that without it you can’t make a decent guy to fall in love with you. There’s nothing wrong with looking beautiful (=healthy, fertile).

        Like


    • since you’re not going to mention your unmentionable extremely effective solution to approach anxiety… I’ll mention one of mine:
      this song:

      I generally have an irrationally high level of confidence, but AA still creeps in sometimes, and when it does, I’ll replay certain songs in my head. my favorite one recently is Ween’s ‘My Own Bare Hands’. swagger and ballz.

      Like


  22. The best part of Roosh’s material is its “regular guy” character. Too much game advice smells of the lamp, not the street – long intricate sentences spell defeat for most guys, especially with a girl you’ve just met.

    Like


  23. Buzz Aldrin Is Having a Sex Scandal

    http://gawker.com/5842164/buzz-aldrin-is-having-a-sex-scandal

    81-year-old former astronaut and Dancing with the Stars geezer Buzz Aldrin is having a sex scandal. After 23 years of marriage, he left third wife Lois Driggs Cannon to be with 51-year-old marketer Michelle Sucillon, whom he met while signing books.

    Like


  24. H,

    Sometimes you make me sooo mad I wanna scratch your eyes out and rip your earlobes off and I don’t always agree with everything, but I do have to say that these kinds of posts are a really good deed for both men and women 🙂

    So many guys simply don’t know what to do or say when it comes to approaching women and I really wish they could all come here and learn to get more confidence, b/c as a woman who generally likes more reserved laid back guys it can be quite frustrating. There are so many cute and shy guys going dateless b/c they simply don’t know what to say or do with women or lack the confidence to just go for it. 😦

    So *oh gawd I can’t believe I am saying this* THANK YOU for this post! teaching them how to have more confidence in approaching women in daytime public places b/c they really need it out here. So many have no clue where to go to get this kind of info. Feminism really screwed a lot of good guys up and they are finshing last.

    Like


    • Neecy – fair enough, but what about what Whiskey said regarding “Elevator Man” and “Skepchick”…?

      Like


      • RC,

        I certainly wouldn’t use the Skepchik situation as a measuring tool for much except that there are some really Looney women or sensitive women out there that you will come across when cold approaching. That’s the unfortunate part of approaching women in public – its like a box of chocolates you don’t know what you’re going to get! LOL. Some women are going to be responsive, rude, bitchy, happy, welcoming, kind, off putting etc.

        But ultimately a man just has to go for it. You’d be surprised at how many undesirables are hooting and hollering at women day to day and we just brush it off or laugh it off and keep going. So the decent attractive shy guy who has a lot going for himself has really nothing to lose IMO by going for it. Most women like a man that takes charge and goes for what he wants – caution, rejection be damned. To me that represents what a man is by raw nature. One who isn’t afraid of a challenge or afraid to get a door slammed in his face – he’s still going to try and go after what he wants. And if he gets a door slammed, he’s going to dust himself off and keep moving. If you don’t knock on the door, it won’t ever open.

        Like


      • Neecy

        You’d be surprised at how many undesirables are hooting and hollering at women day to day

        i dont know why you want to keep living in such a bad neighborhood

        Like


      • Ha! Not moi…..

        Like


      • Therefore… Game!
        Your advice is male-friendly, but ineffective for someone who doesn’t possess the necessary tools to act on it. Actually, during my beta days, i heard many women talking about how they were attracted to “confident men”. I don’t know exactly how i managed to dismiss that with some kind of emasculated rationalization, but i succeeded.

        Actually, the “decent attractive shy guy” (attractive btw can help, but ultimately means very little) can’t reprogram his deep beliefs by simply hearing “I love confident men, how do you like my new shoes?”… He needs to understand female nature on a fundamental level (thank you, Heartiste), and he needs the seduction process to be broken down ruthlessly by former geeks who understand the male white knighting psyche (thank you, Mystery).

        Like


      • He needs to understand female nature on a fundamental level

        It *IS* female nature to want confident men. That’s what I am saying. The fundamentals of how a man gains confidence really doesn’t matter to the average woman. All we see and experience are guys who show obvious interest but lack the confidence to follow through on his desires. And that is frustrating for women who do not believe in making the first move. Its female nature to respond to mating through body language and *not* what she says. More men need to understand female body language and cues.

        Like


      • “More men need to understand female body language and cues”

        I do understand that. Wanna fuck?

        Like


      • “… can’t reprogram his deep beliefs by simply hearing “I love confident men, how do you like my new shoes?”… He needs to understand female nature on a fundamental level (thank you, Heartiste)”

        True. But I’m afraid that one of the tools how these PUAs make you understand the “female nature” and gain confidence from this knowledge is focusing exclusively on the negative sides of us women (=how slutty, shallow, stupid, fake etc. we are). I guess It’s easier to feel confident talking to a girl if you despise her. Although I’m not sure whether this is the right way to go. If we take Roosh for example – he feels no respect towards women – and making love to a girl is “a mechanical means to relieve the pressure building up in the sack and nothing more” for him. If that’s what you want I’m sure you’ll be able to find enough of these damaged and mentally disturbed women (now I’m 100% convinced that girls who can have casual sex are not quite sane) to sleep with.

        But I’m stupid to think that I’ll convince people here to stop wanting to sleep with as many girls as possible … It’s not your fault if these girls sleep with you, sadly it’s entirely their fault – or the fault of the feminism which taught them that they can/should have sex like men. They are even very happy and proud to be sluts … until the 25th (or 30) birthday, but sometimes forever – which is very harmful for the young girls who have to listen to them.

        [Heartiste: Respect must be earned. Possessing a vagina doesn’t automatically qualify you for respect.]

        Like


      • I understand why Roosh despises women.

        [Heartiste: You are a slithery lil’ eel, ain’t ya? Hint: Accepting the reality of women’s natures is not the same as despising them. Or: It’s kinda hard to make love to someone you despise. Unless you have experience with it?]

        I just wanted to say how sad it is that he ended like that. Also, I hope you know that girls who are capable of having one night stands are very stupid and naive at best, more likely they have some serious emotional problems.

        [Or maybe they’re just horny.]

        Why would you despise people who are mentally ill?

        [Is it your contention that girls who have one night stands are mentally ill?
        You see, this is what I mean by you being a troll.]

        Like


      • My comment got lost. In short: I realized that not respecting does not mean the same as ‘despising’. Sorry. I should have used ‘despise’ from the beginning. I’m convinced that Roosh despises women – if not, why would he write that the girls he sleeps with are “worthless dirty whores” ?!

        [Heartiste: Literary license.]

        Like


      • @ Maya
        I’m convinced that Roosh despises women – if not, why would he write that the girls he sleeps with are “worthless dirty whores” ?!

        Don’t worry, I’m sure he made each one of them feel special.

        Like


      • That’s the unfortunate part of approaching women in public – its like a box of chocolates you don’t know what you’re going to get! LOL. Some women are going to be responsive, rude, bitchy, happy, welcoming, kind, off putting etc.

        You’re an absolute gem, Neecy…!

        Like


    • This blurb will be on the back of Roissy’s book.

      Like


  25. strongly complimentary opener

    I don’t get why guys use strong compliments ever, in any situation. “I thought you were cute and I wanted to meet you” should be the strongest compliment you ever use.

    Like


    • the younger (read dumber) the girl and if your value far above hers, a compliment will let her know that she can attain you.

      the rules are different for high value players and incoming new learning gamers

      Like


  26. i read the book.

    my only complaint is that the approach is kind of like, play dumb.

    uh, i’m lost.
    uh, is that a good pen?
    uh, so whatchya got there a new music fandangle box?

    with a doubt i’m an expert on all things electronic, locations, where the fuck i am, what stores are about, how to use gps, etc etc. and ten fold more than some chick.

    opening with something that makes me need to have them share info with me that i should already know is incongruent with who i am and who i’ll be later.

    i think it’ll reek of bullshit pretty quickly.

    then again, haven’t tried it in the field yet either.

    [Heartiste: If it helps, you can consider this “playing dumb” effort something akin to vulnerability game.]

    Like


    • dc1000,

      I see your point. And like you I am very resourceful and intelligent when it comes to gadgets and mechanical things. Trust me I’ve had the same notions about congruency and using dumb functional openers with chics.

      Where I’m going is that when gaming I actively shut it all off and remember a cardinal rule of women: They are not driven by logic, but emotion. Chances are extremely high she will not call you out later and say “why did you ask for directions when you could have Google mapped it?” If she does, who cares. Say “mines broken?”

      Yesterday I was in the grocery store and I opened a chic with “excuse me, I really need your help with something, do you know the difference between Jam and Jelly?” (while holding a jam and jelly jar and animating along with my words.) 1) who gives a shit. 2) I could have googled it. 3) chics know dumb shit about jelly. 4) the most important thing about jam and jelly is that you cant jelly your cock up a chic’s ass.

      🙂

      Like


      • “Yesterday I was in the grocery store and I opened a chic with “excuse me, I really need your help with something, do you know the difference between Jam and Jelly?” (while holding a jam and jelly jar and animating along with my words.) 1) who gives a shit. 2) I could have googled it. 3) chics know dumb shit about jelly. 4) the most important thing about jam and jelly is that you cant jelly your cock up a chic’s ass.”

        LMAO

        Like


    • In most places on Earth, it’s OK to a woman that a man doesn’t know the local vicinity and she does. Zero points are lost and his out-of-towner status is often a major DHV. Vulnerability game.

      The one place where this meme of not being local shot me out of the water entirely, however, was in Manhattan – the New York one, not the Kansas one. There women will want to know a guy knows his way around, but he can still get away with asking where the latest new restaurant is. Just about everywhere else, a man can be new in town.

      And it’s too bad that Ted Bundy ruined one of the best vulnerability game ideas. His idea of being in a cast and on crutches was brilliant. Too bad he used that for pure evil.

      Like


    • DC,

      There’s no reason to play dumb; you are trying to involve her, take her mind off of what you’re trying to do.

      Example with the pen:

      You: “Hey*, I couldn’t help but notice your writing; it’s really nice to see someone writing in cursive, it’s like a lost art these days”
      (she’ll agree because guess what, she’s writing in cursive for a reason, she likes it)
      Her: Yeah I agree, I just preffer it so much more….

      *(you say hey, not “excuse me” because you’re dominant and you’re projecting your confidence, not qualifying to her by even giving her the idea that you may be bothering her)

      From here on you steer the convo or see which way she is trying to steer it: is it a diary/ do you tell her that you learned writing in cursive but lost the art/ ask about the pen etc. and then steer the convo into another direction or whatever fodder she gives you. This is where situational awareness and instinct come in.

      You have maximum 2 questions to ask back to back, if she just says “Thanks” and then responds plainly to your second question; it’s a lost cause and you can just say “Well anyways, keep the art alive” or whatever, no reason to be an ass.

      A few weeks ago i was at a coffee shop, hungover with 2 of my friends. Noticed a gorgeous girl that I couldnt stop looking at through my shades.
      After some observation I notice that she’s reading the local independent magazine which I’m also reading. At this point she’s checked me out a couple of times and she’s reading an article and smiling. As I get my refill and walk by her, with my two buddies watching I proceed:

      Me: Hey, what article were you just reading earlier, I noticed you were smiling while reading it (risky, almost creepy but the only thing in this situation). I was also just shuffling through the independent.
      Her: Smiling, “Oh” *shuffles pages “it was right here an article about the GOP blah blah
      Me: cool, I’ll have to check it out, are you from here
      Her: Yeah, but i go to school at NYU

      From here on I got her involved w what she studies etc.

      Again it’s all about situational awareness and your delivery. Ended up chillen w her for about 5 minutes talking and getting her number. Might chill w her
      soon.

      GL

      Like


  27. Seriously? That’s a really bad example.

    Let’s be real. If you start your approach by pestering with a dozen questions about her pen, she’s going to be annoyed. Women can smell that underhanded shit a mile away.

    I’ve read the sample chapter on Amazon. Some quibbles:

    – Roosh recommends the “elderly opener” approach. He can’t be serious. Everyone knows that annoying old guy who won’t leave you alone. That’s no way to chat up a girl.

    – Roosh discourages push/pull, teasing, or any hint of romantic intent. Anyone can have a friendly conversation. Sounds like a surefire path to the friendzone.

    Anyone can write a convincing book. Did Roosh actually field test this?

    Like


    • Critic,

      There’s more to it than that.

      Roosh discusses escalation. It’s just that indirect opening is a way of entering the fortress.

      Like


  28. First, get BANG and read it, then DAY BANG. The next one will be BANG Players Handbook, then BANG Monster Manual, and finally the BANG Dungeon Masters Guide.

    Like


  29. “It’s inevitable that you will eventually tire of the nightclub scene. Nightclub enthusiasm tends to peak for men in their early 20s, and gradually wane after that. ”

    i agree. i recently hit 29. i’m done with that whole scene.
    straight up.
    and i did great in that scene.
    but it will fade.

    Like


  30. Indirect Game vs. Direct can be similar to Leaning Back vs. Leaning In

    (Not always of course. I’ve seen masters do direct day game well. I’m just not one of them)

    In the short term, if you get a conversation going, it’s to your advantage that you’re not necessarily available and she has to qualify herself based on more than just her looks.

    In the long term, it can pay really big dividends. Here is a story from today (or six weeks ago depending on how you look at it):

    I was not feeling in top form at lunch sitting at an outdoor cafe because it was one of the two days per year that I hadn’t showered. I’d only just barely managed to shave after buying a razor and cream at a store and shaving in the cafe’s bathroom. My neck would have been blotchy. There’s a reason why 363 days per year, this doesn’t happen.

    Murphy’s Law was enforced, of course, and a goddess walks past and into a neighboring shop. I had to accept that I was not going to go into that shop and game her in any way, considering the condition I felt I was in.

    When she walked out a few minutes later and started walking away, I watched her butt and probably murmured “if there’s a God in Heaven, she’ll turn around and come to papa”.

    Just then she did just that. She glanced back, saw me, smiled, waved and came back. I was in shock. I told her to take a seat and join me and she sat down and beamed and I was in even worse shock. Where the Hell had I met this goddess before? Why was she acting this way? Had I been killed and wound up in some kind of PUA Heaven?

    It took about 5 minutes but I finally realized that, six weeks ago, I’d asked her and her friends for directions to somewhere that I already knew how to find. I’d probably thrown in a couple funny observations before the girls went on their way.

    Apparently, by having done that, I had obtained the status of old friend.

    That’s how girls think. It’s like I’d been pre-selected by herself.

    Every time you ask a woman where the nearest ATM is, you are putting social currency in the bank even if all you do is thank her and go on your way.

    Like


    • So each little hello is an investment in your future. An investment with an uncertain payoff individually, but an overall payoff.

      I wish there were some way other than alcohol or a long term lack of sex to feel social enough to often make day approaches.

      Like


      • Yes, a cool unconcern about the immediate results of every little interaction. It’s like a flirting karma that came back around in Jerry’s case when he least expected it.

        Like


  31. Shut up and take my money! 😉

    Like


  32. Roosh’s sales just increased 327%

    Like


  33. Roosh is going to inspire a lot of men to build on what he teaches in Day Bang. I expect his forum will start exploding with game advice for men who are mainly interested in picking up during the day.

    Like


  34. Simple pickup seem to do whatever they want for day game and it seems to work well; magazines are even calling them the greatest puas of this generation.

    Like


  35. “It’s inevitable that you will eventually tire of the nightclub scene. ”

    I’m back in Bali after having been away for 5 years.

    I see girls coming into their peak fertility years, putting themselves out there to play around and eventually marrying themself off the market – only to be replaced by the next crop of talent.

    Everywhere around me is a new crop of talent. All the shopgirls, waitresses, and disco chicks I used to know are all gone. Not gone – replaced.

    Life is good if you are a man.

    Like


  36. Theres a girl I like in my gender studies class. An 8 or 9. She seems like she could be a bit crazy but shes hot so I want to fuck her. The problem is, I cant seem to qualify her. I can disqualify her easily – I asked her if she excercised, she said no and I said damn we could never date or something like that. The disqualifications are super easy but I really failed when I tried to qualify her by saying I thought she was a stupid feminist but now I realize she is actually intelligent and I value that etc. It didnt really hit with her, she just changed the subject. She doesnt get offended by anything; negs are never too harsh. She talks A LOT, something I really dislike. I actually dislike a ton of things about her and its really hard to find something good about her personality but I’m going to keep trying because I think there may be a sweet little girl inside of her.

    How do I qualify her? Also, whenever I try to connect with her she keeps looking from left to right and fidgeting. Its really hard to build a connection like that. She works at a bar and has big tits.

    Like


    • Seems like you’re in the friend zone. I’m sure that you come to her as too needy or too friendly. Stop talking to her for a while. Make sure that she sees you with another HB, and try gaming her later, with more aloofness, and sharper seduction skills.

      And this kind of advice-seeking reeks one-itism. If a girl is not responsive enough to your game, look for other targets. It is not possible to get in all women’s pants. You can only improve your game with lots of approaches.

      “I think there may be a sweet little girl inside of her.”

      Don’t ever think like that. Always assume that your target has the corrupt soul of a promiscuous cheating whore. In order to consider her as a nice sweet girl, you need crystal clear evidence, not white-knighting assumptions.

      Like


    • “Theres a girl I like in my gender studies class.”

      Gender studies class? Son, you have larger problems than this girl’s apparent disinterest. Get thee to engineering or chemistry.

      Like


  37. “It must be a great feeling to properly guide a young man to understanding the nuttiness psychology of women.”

    I have two teenage nephews, who great-looking young men. (Mixed Mexican and Nordic heritage. Imagine naturally-tan, dark-haired, blue-eyed Thors.) Tall, athletic and movie star good-looking, they get female attention without even trying–girls wet their panties watching them just walk out on the football field.

    The younger nephew is a natural alpha. He is totally cool and relaxed and in frame around women. Him, I give no advice to. Hell, he could give grown men pointers, if he was more aware of his natural talent.

    The older nephew is the one I have to work on. He gets all rom-com and obsessive about chicks. I told him to remain politely cool, slightly distant, bemused, occasionally warm without being sappy. Freshman level game, let’s call it.

    The older one still got dumped by his last girlfriend. He stank of puppy love devotion to a chick clearly beneath him in beauty, brains and future prospects.

    He moped around town post-breakup. Hot chicks would be flirting with him as we were out and about, and all he could do is whine about his ex, a gal who is probably the *least* attractive chick he will bang until he is old and feeble. /facepalm

    I told him that he was dating beneath his level. I told him that if he really wanted her back, he should ostentatiously date other, hotter chicks and make the new gals gaga over him. His ex would come back to him with sudden renewed lust, but, I continued, he would find zero interest in her, because his next three girlfriends will all be hotter, once he gets control of himself.

    Trust your uncle, I told him, this is really how it works. He seemed so uncertain. Sigh…. The mangina programming even genetic lottery winners suffer from runs deep, I fear.

    Like


  38. Also I’ve heard of people who daygame occasionally having problems with security or whatever, though I’ve never personally experienced it. It’s probably something that happens to guys that hit on 25 girls in a single venue, which admittedly would look very odd on CCTV.

    Perhaps being socially retarded or overly needy/desperate contributes to it.

    Like


  39. on September 22, 2011 at 12:12 pm Is that a nice pen?

    Roosh, when you have dozens of clips of you on your site successfully day gaming chicks with your method then feel free to lecture Krauser, who’s actually being pretty polite and diplomatic with you in my opinion, given that you’ve not as much as a photo of you with a woman.

    Plus haven’t you been day gaming for less than 2yrs? I recall a post on your site not that long ago of you gushing about how you wouldn’t have believed day game would yield such results and were firmly a convert. And now you’re not only ‘teaching’ it you’ve written a book about it? I bought your first book and nothing in it that wasn’t rehashed stock seduction community knowledge. Only got your word for it you’re any good. But hey, I’m countering you so flip out like you do when you stay up all night hammering out another rant on women if you get cock blocked or disrepected (in your mind) by some random bar chick. Then you can post one immediately after it about Buddhism.

    [Heartiste: Not to take away anything from Krauser’s ballsiness (craziness?) at posting vids of his lays online, but there are good reasons why a man with an extensive dating history might want to keep pics of his lovers off the public airwaves. And, no, it has nothing to do with said lovers’ attractiveness.]

    Like


    • on September 22, 2011 at 4:00 pm Obstinance Works

      Krauser is pretty well-connected in the PUA community where he is. He has a crew. Roosh is more of a lone wolf and a pensive wanderer. It makes sense if you think about it. It’s part of their persona/lifestyle in other words. One needs to stay on the down-low, the other would not want to. Krauser with piercing energy even comes out and tells some of his victims who he is and what he is about.

      I find both sides of my personality identifies with both styles at times. I’m not really setting aside as much time as I used to however, but have to carve out opportunities. There are times I have to be very indirect almost to a whisper, as I attend church and move and breath among those types most of the time in my business. It’s just the way it is in this area. But there are other times where I feel liberated to go howl-pig on those hoes. A complicated existence have I, but am delighted by the thrill of the chase more every day as I experience and subject human nature in my realms.

      [Heartiste: I’d like to give Krauser’s book a review as well. Direct game is not my style most of the time, but I think I can still be dispassionate about analyzing its pros and cons.]

      Like


      • Just so we’re all clear, I’m not ragging on Roosh or his style. I enjoy his blog and I’m waiting for a paper copy of his Day Bang book which I will read with great interest.

        Like


  40. I took Roosh’s day game course a couple of years ago when he was just starting to teach it. The price was impossibly low at the time…like $150 for 8 hours of instruction. He could charge ten times that and it would be worth it to a lot of guys. At that point in my life, my skills had atrophied and I needed a push to get back in the game. Roosh’s day game course provided that and his concepts were solid, all of which (and more) are in his new book. I don’t know what his students’ overall success rate was, but I am one of the guys who took his course that eventually banged one of the chicks I cold approached in Urban Outfitters that day using Roosh’s techniques. I believe his advice and thoughts on day game are excellent for newcomers and naturals alike.

    Like


  41. Besides this blog, I’ve the learned the most about Game from Krauser. His videos are priceless, his game theories are solid and his facebook chats are informative and funny.

    Like


  42. How much did you get paid for the book review? It’s a fair question. And you deserve to get paid considering all the time you’ve spent building this site. I’m just curious…

    [Heartiste: Nothing. Just a free advance copy. I’ll do the same for any respected pickup artist who wants to have a book reviewed.]

    Like


  43. Question for all the advanced PUA’s on here:

    Much time is devoted to a discussion of alpha characteristics in sparking an initial attraction in a female. But the comfort stage is where she decides to bang you or not (or to want to date you). And a key component in a successful relationship for both men and women is the feeling that your partner has your back and is unconditionally on your team. Loyalty.

    How does one demonstrate this quality, early on in the comfort stage, without coming across as a “sensitive” beta? I get that by passing her shit tests you demonstrate that you are unshakeable and have a strong frame. But how do you communicate to her that you will not waver for her, without coming across as try hard?

    Like


    • I don’t think it’s time to consider that issue before you’ve fucked the girl. There is no need to broadcast commitment and stability during seduction. Let her pursue that from you – don’t offer it up.

      Like


  44. Roosh really should be posting infield videos, at least a couple so we can understand how his system works in practice. He could blot out the girl’s details from the video to respect privacy and he could even make the video private or at least unlisted on youtube so we have to request to see it. Sorry Roosh, although your book is great there really is no excuse not to post infields.

    Like


  45. […] Roissy (Heartiste) reviewed the book and immediately the debate began. “Hot women get approached all the time.” is met with “Most men won’t approach hot women precisely because of the perception that hot women are approached all the time.” Or words to that effect. It’s an interesting debate because day Game is so qualitatively different from night Game. […]

    Like


  46. […] first review is by the blogger formely known as Roissy: Technically, the writing is sharper and clearer than his first book, minus a few grammatical […]

    Like


  47. […] first review is by the blogger formely known as Roissy: Technically, the writing is sharper and clearer than his first book, minus a few grammatical […]

    Like