The Undercover Orbiter Strategy

Beta males who get stuck in the friend zone (“LJBFed”) with women are rightly mocked for their self-defeating clinginess and the burden of their blue balls. But the strategy — if it can be called that — to befriend girls that one would like to fuck must have some utility for some men some of the time, or it wouldn’t exist in the state of nature. And, if one observes women through the years, there are those beta male orbiters who do manage, through sheer force of persistence or ungodly patience for a stroke of luck to come their way, a tender five seconds of intimacy with their female friends which the girls immediately regret afterward.

So you might say the undercover beta male orbiter strategy is extremely long-term, with no guarantee of sexual closure. It’s a painfully slow and laborious process for extracting sexual favors from girls, so why then do some egregiously betas do it? Well, because for these kinds of weak men the pain of the subversive orbiter strategy is less painful than the pain of outright rejection from busting a move that would destroy all their hopes and the delicious uncertainty that acts as mental lube for their masturbatory daydreaming.

However, if approaching and hitting on girls with sexual intention is simply out of your realm of possibility, then there are ways to conduct your undercover orbiter strategy that will maximize your odds of a bang with the torment of your dreams. I lay them out here.

– Always talk about the girls you are dating, fucking, or seeking same from to your girl “friend”. Do so in a way that does not seem try-hard; that is, offer it up like an afterthought to some other topic that triggers the segue.

– Limit your friendzone time to drinking, shows, art exhibits, and house parties. Try to avoid shopping or other quintessentially girlie or best gay boyfriend activities. The object is to do friendly things with her that mimic real dates, while avoiding doing those things with her that strengthen her impression of you as “one of the girls” (who happens to have a penis, if the rumors are true).

– Immediately and without qualification change the subject when your girl “friend” begins talking about a guy she likes, or the dudes she’s fucking or wants to fuck. Once you go down that road, there’s no turning back from eternal LJBF hell. She will never see you as a sexual creature if you are willing to listen to her sob stories about other men plowing her clean.

– Don’t make a production of her wistful musings about other guys, though. Don’t change the subject by exclaiming your refusal to listen to her dating life; doing that opens her to suspicions that you really like her, and if your Undercover Orbiter strategy is to work, you can’t put yourself in a position of needy weakness. Better to change subjects by simply changing them, as if you didn’t even hear her comment about the serial killer she really wants to boff who offed her twin sister.

– You’re going to want to invoke feelings of latent jealousy as much as possible. A girl “friend” that you are orbiting may not consciously perceive you as a potential lover, but when she sees you holding court with other girls, or flirting with one of her friends, her instincts will kick in and she won’t be able to control a growing desire for your preselected malehood.

– Use her as a target for practicing your teasing skills. A platonic girl friend (but you know better, don’t you, tiger) presents an excellent opportunity for honing your cocky teasing skills. And a welcome bonus is that she may start to want you after all your gentle insulting.

– Once in a while, she’s going to unload that “I fucked a hot dude last night” conversation bomb. Do not react negatively, even though you will feel intense burning jealousy mixed with disgust. In fact, do not react at all. Raise an eyebrow, and say something along the lines of, “Tell me more when the wedding date is set.” The idea is to ridicule her idea of a fulfilling dating life. More good replies: “Your parents would be proud”, “Hey, congratulations, you magnificent slut!” (say this with a shit-eating grin), “This is news?”

– Your one advantage, if you can call it that, is that you are the guy who is “there for her” when times are tough and she needs a shoulder to cry on. Occasionally, like when Jupiter aligns with Uranus and her oxytocin levels are off the charts, a girl will feel strong intimate feelings for the emotionally available and sensitive beta male. That’s when you leap in. You’ve been laying the groundwork for months, perhaps years, and now it’s time to cash in your “terrific guy” chips for a shot at her weepy vulva. Bust your move by gently stroking the back of her hand for hours. Progress to giving her many more hours of cunnilingus when you’ve gotten an unambiguous green light for bedroom intimacy. (Your green light will need to be unambiguous, because pushing hard for sex over her coy protestations will strike her as terribly incongruent with your personality, and she will recoil.) Finally, be prepared for waves of regret to wrack her mind in the morning, or even as soon as when the tip of your penis grazes her labia. Allow that she will need this time to regret her actions, and take the necessary precautions to avoid a feminism-inspired legal imbroglio by wiring your place with audio and video recorders the day before she arrives. You can never be too safe.

– Finally, preemptively dump her after the first time you bang her. Yes, that’s right, unceremoniously dump the girl of your dreams, your White Womb. As her confirmed beta orbiter, there is little chance she will want more sex with you after her moment of weakness (that’s what she will think it is), let alone a relationship, if you do not take steps to push her in that direction. And pushing her in that direction means pushing her away from you. There’s nothing more infuriating, and hence, more alluring, to a woman than a man who has inexplicably made himself less available to her after sex. Especially when that man has spent so much time prior being the guy she could count on. This is script-flipping on steroids. You must make her stop seeing you as her reliable, sensitive, asexual friend, and that means you need to start becoming less reliable, less sensitive, and more sexual. A preemptive dumping is just the strong medicine a girl “friend” needs to being the healing of her “regretiness”. Don’t do it the very next morning, but don’t wait too long either. You have to get the jump on her before she hits you with the “I don’t want to ruin our friendship” sermon. Timing is critical. You want to be the bearer of that message before she is.

– If you are slow to act, and she manages to “dump” you first, you have a counter maneuver. Agree with her. “Yes, this was a mistake. We need to stop so we can remain friends.” (Never mind the bizarre logic of this statement; with women, emotions are what matter.) Then, in the days immediately following, see her once, and then cut off all contact for a few weeks (or months, as the circumstances require). Cutting off contact means taking a full day or two to reply to her texts or vmails or IMs, and not making a big deal about it when she inquires why you are being distant. Act as if she is the one imagining things are wrong between you two.

– This is hamster manipulation of the highest order. You are the one instigating the Distancing Protocol, while blaming her for perceiving something that’s “all in her head”. This contradictory tactic spares you from leaving an impression of butthurtness, and keeps her in a constant state of self-doubt. From such fertile psychological ground sprouts the chaser-chasee inversion algorithm, a seduction ploy that is the special sauce which underlies every womanizer’s exotic power over their prey.


  1. And a second-order effect of going through all this might be to cure you of being a beta orbiter, period, by taking women off the pedestal. There was an earlier CH post that suggested that the quickest way to de-pedestalize is to think of the Beloved smiling with a cum-drenched face after giving it to another guy; this is essentially forcing yourself to do that by living with her through all those stories. I’d be cured of beta-orbiter really fast after playing pseudo-GBF.


    • Whenever she says “but they’Re JUST friends”.. remember Orbiter Bear:


    • “There was an earlier CH post that suggested that the quickest way to de-pedestalize is to think of the Beloved smiling with a cum-drenched face after giving it to another guy; I’d be cured of beta-orbiter really fast after playing pseudo-GBF.”

      ITAWY. It’s definitely a way to remedy you of her mystique. But this tactic gets employed by women too. Some of us girls do the same thing to keep ourselves away from engaging in casual sex. When it’s clear a charming guy is hitting on us and probably wants to escalate things right then and there, we imagine his red pulsating swollen dick – bumped, bruised, and STD drenched from all the vaginas he fucked. It sure halts his charms instantaneously. Because it’s really true. A guy with game can really twist a girl’s mind, but when you apply this antidote, he can’t penetrate your defenses. The only way he has a chance with you is if he slowed down a bit and you decided to give him a chance. But the moment he gets out of control, bring back the pulsating dick image, which I assume isn’t far off the truth if he is that sexually active.


      • @NiteLily

        Hm. Interesting. Similar to the guy’s visualizing, though, that implies awareness of the larger picture of what’s going on–either that there’s Beta Orbiter Syndrome in progress (on the guy’s part), or that the guy is charming and escalating and the woman consciously opts to slow down.

        I think the general rule though for guys is that game is like working a sales job–it’s worth physically escalating harder earlier (so to speak) for clarity about the intentions of both parties involved (in this case, whether the woman is reciprocally interested, or is slow-playing, or is not really interested) so that time and other resources aren’t wasted on pursuing bad leads. Not sure what the female equivalent is.


      • “that implies awareness of the larger picture of what’s going on–either that there’s Beta Orbiter Syndrome in progress (on the guy’s part), or that the guy is charming and escalating and the woman consciously opts to slow down.”

        Of course there is awareness; you couldn’t do it without it. But it need not be employed on a beta orbiter. A beta orbiter is nonthreatening. You must use it on a guy whom you know is interested in you because he is charming as hell and you’re very attracted to him and you know he is flirting and escalating, and driving you crazy with his antics and dominance. He takes liberties touching you, caressing your sleeveless arm, making eye contact and mentioning how soft your skin is. A woman’s body is very sensitive to touch, much more sensitive than a man’s body, and that’s when she enters the danger zone. So it’s why I admit that a guy with game can really twist a girl’s mind, but when you apply this antidote, he can’t penetrate your defenses, or at least it slows down things until you’re ready (or not ) to give him a chance. But that means nothing happens that night, and possibly not even the next night or the night after that. It depends how lax or strict you want to be with a particular guy. So usually, when a guy is this hot (and I don’t necessarily mean good-looking, I mean he has a sexy disposition and attitude) you need to watch out. He knows how to use his sexuality to get you to bed. You must not let him in, maybe never if you determine all he wants is sex. Visualizing his infested cock slows you down so that your common sense can prevail.


      • “Not sure what the female equivalent is.”

        The female equivalent to a guy wanting to get laid fast, is a woman employing converse action. Where the guy wants to work fast, the female wants to go slow and take her time getting to know him. Of course, if he’s not into relationships that scenario is not going to be for him, and that’s fine. Men and women are often at odds. So when you encounter such a girl you don’t stick around since you don’t want to waste your precious time. However, some players like challenges and they will stick around and try hard to bed you. That’s when you need to remember, however intoxicating his attention is, that he’s a player, he had many women before you and will have many more after you, and if you don’t want to be another one of his conquests or worse get STDs, you better repeat this to yourself like a mantra.


      • Wow never in my life, I have seen a girl defeat my game, Where were you in all these days, why don’t you do a thing, create a blog and give advice to women on how to tackle the GAME tingles once they meet that Charming but STD drenched dude, Lolz.


      • Ok.

        Now imagine that you see him more than once, he is popular with most of the girls, and you constantly get displays of his charisma.
        He becames aloof to you, while having a blast with other girls in front of your eyes.

        From day to day the sexual energy builds up in you, and after some time if that picture can still function – you will not be willing to employ it once he finally approaches to you again.

        There are always exceptions and shit, but i have never seen effective defense to that.


      • LOL! You’re right; assuming he travels in my circles. If he’s friends with my friends, it’s a whole different ballgame than encountering him at a party or a club one time.

        The attention is always intoxicating, so when he shifts his interest away from you, it’s almost like you want to pursue him, or at the very least you wait patiently for him to come around again. I think women have this irrational thing built within them – the moment the guy seems to lose interest, she becomes interested.

        In that case, when he starts focusing on me again, I don’t deprive myself of his attention, I just go along for the ride and I flirt. I learn to enjoy the tête-à-tête, but I still don’t let my defenses down and I keep him at arm’s length. It’s like wanting to have ice-cream when you know you shouldn’t, so you satisfy yourself with just a few licks to get the urge out of your system. Hopefully, you don’t lose control and end up devouring the whole cone. Hence, I always keep it to superficial flirting. However, I will admit that after doing this for a few cycles – he pays attention then gets cold then pays attention then gets cold again – can exhaust my defenses. So ultimately you are right, it’s almost impossible to stabilize the sexual energy this creates. You just have to continue visualizing him with STDs and hope that your common sense will prevail if you really don’t want to engage in casual sex with men. Falling like a penetrated fortress is so weak. At least a girl can put up a fight.


  2. Second!


  3. Also, bang your girl “friend” ‘s friends.

    CH are you inferring with quotations this girl isn’t actually your “friend?” Lulz nice.

    I had a ton of female friends in college since I was on a co-ed sports team and they all ended up dating my friends. Luckily they weren’t that great and they tried to bang me first, so I was fine with it.

    Male-female Platonic friendships don’t exist, let’s face it. Even if you are truly trying to be friends with a girl, there is always that possibility in the back of your mind that you could bang her at some point.


    • Male-female Platonic friendships don’t exist, let’s face it.

      It can happen. I have the ideal female platonic friend. She’s somewhat overweight, and the girlfriend of one of my buddies, but very popular, with lots of hot girlfriends.


  4. This is all extremely good advice, containing both practical tips and enough Evo Psych theory to point the Beta orbiter in the right direction.

    I can’t, however, for the life of me figure out why any man would want to be friends with a woman. I can see how a man might, at some point in his life, end up at a museum or a show or something like that with a woman who is 100% off the radar screen of sex (something semi-work-related, or a cousin, sister, niece, grandmother), but how is it possible that anyone but a total beta schlub ends up at a date-like event with an otherwise fuckable woman who has unilaterally declared herself off-limits for you?

    Women aren’t good friends. They don’t like to do anything cool. They talk too much. They are too sensitive. They are a pain in the ass about everything. I’d sooner poke my eyeballs out than hang out with a woman just for kicks. How is any of this fun?

    And I say this even though I’m not exactly the most manly man in the world. Sure, I like to do some typical guy stuff, like work on cars, build motorcycles, and go bird hunting.

    But I also spent a lot of my 20s in art classes. The only context where I could see myself hanging out with a woman I wasn’t fucking would be if she were (a) naked and (b) modeling.


    • on December 24, 2012 at 12:20 pm Days of Broken Arrows

      I can’t, however, for the life of me figure out why any man would want to be friends with a woman.

      Because she’s a direct pipeline to other women and by hanging with her you’re “preselected,” not just a stranger walking up to that particular woman hoping for the best.

      Most of the women I’ve dated I met through other women, and this goes as far back as high school. Not only do you get access to a lot of women through female friends, but you get to know what their friends are like and can then capitalize on the commonalities.

      As for the attraction that might happen, here’s what I recommend: deliberately befriend women you’re not attracted to who have large crowds of hot friends.

      Male-female friendships do exist if you know what you’re doing and have a game plan.


    • social proof and keeping your game skills sharpened.

      of course most women are useless as proper friends – you can’t really exchange knowledge with them or have a logical debate with them, and you can’t really shoot the shit with them like they’re one of the guys (the exception is the high-t girl who essentially is one of the guys but with a vagina). but that is not what women are for.


    • “Women aren’t good friends. They don’t like to do anything cool. They talk too much. They are too sensitive. They are a pain in the ass about everything. I’d sooner poke my eyeballs out than hang out with a woman just for kicks. How is any of this fun? ”

      Just for kicks…no I wouldn’t hang out with a woman. But women are cool if you plan on something cool you like, control the conversation, and don’t give in to their sensitive emotions.

      If you let the woman lead the whole thing…then yeah I’d rather poke out my eyeballs because at best it’ll be boring and at worst you’ll be blue balled or in physical pain.


      • Da rub:
        Hot women have hot friends.
        Average women have average friends.
        Ugly women have ugly friends.
        Most of the time.
        And by being friends with a hottie, the only thing you’re ‘pre-selected’ for is Best Gay Friend’.
        You want a real friend, get a dog.
        You want to fuck girls , DON’T BE THEIR FRIEND!!!!


    • You can always practice game…
      It’s like playing games; that girl is level 1( for beginners) some other has a bitch shield. That is level up.
      Next one has beauty, bitch shield and orbiters, so you must penetrate the setting…

      I stopped to play video games so i play these games.

      It’s good when you have beautifull girl – friend, that is married or unavailable otherwise, that admires you, or wants your friendship, because when such a girl and her hot friends are on your side, beta haters fade to the ground in any social setting.


  5. “But the strategy — if it can be called that — to befriend girls that one would like to fuck must have some utility for some men some of the time, or it wouldn’t exist in the state of nature.”

    Go back 10,000 years. After a gal got pregnant by the local untamed alpha–who promptly bounces on to other adventures–she will need protection, resources, and other support from a devoted male. The orbiter beta strategy in that world is to couple with the woman post-alpha-impregnation. Beta orbiter supports the alpha child as stepfather, and he gets a woman’s unenthusiastic sexual favors for years while the woman raises the alpha mini-me and the beta orbiter’s subsequent offspring with the woman.

    In short, the orbiter beta is getting the five years of beta after five minutes of alpha left her perpetually unsatisfied with his betaness. No doubt the gal will scurry off for furtive alpha sessions when the opportunity arises, so even some of the subsequent kids are likely not the beta’s.

    Jump to now. Same software is installed in the same hardware. BUT now that a woman can avoid pregnancy, women do not have to obtain post-alpha-dumping protection, resources, other subsistence needs by scurrying into beta arms once the alpha bounces on. Thanks to birth control, the beta orbiters are now not simply waiting a few months to a year after a woman’s sexuality gets them alpha-impregnated before the orbiter gets a shot. Rather, orbiters spend their entire twenties pursuing this strategy.

    Those guys are pursuing what was sensible 10,000 years ago when living in a small community with few alphas and limited time frames before consequences played out. But now women are not faced with the horror of raising a child without fatherly male protection and male-provided resources.

    Beta orbiters were the welfare state back in the day. Now gals get to avoid dealing with betas, if they want.

    As a wise man keeps saying, “beta bucks and alpha…..”


    • Not to mention that there is actually evidence that the Alpha males often went to far and had the Beta males gang up on them and kill them.

      Although there legitimately were less Betas before civilization, the weak often died of disease.


    • “Go back 10,000 years”

      You made every bit of that up. Proof: zero.

      Recorded history doesn’t go back that far.


      • You don’t have to go back that far. He described the way things are now in non-feminist, non-socialist cultures. In a normal state of nature, that can be reproduced in the west within 5 years of an economic collapse, women have to stop riding the carousel by age 23 and marry their beta. I’ve seen it happen half a dozen times since I took the red pill that a playmate had to leave my harem to get married to a guy that was less fun but more willing to commit than myself.

        So you don’t have to go back so many thousands of years to understand that feminism and socialism, with their transfers of wealth and over-confidence to young females, are forcing otherwise “successful” betas to wait into their thirties for sloppy 22nds instead of being #3 or #4 the way their strategy would have gotten them before.


      • We dont have recorded history for evolution either, but we still have theories about it.


    • “Go back 10,000 years”

      Then you have a *true* state of nature: Rape, rape, rape.


  6. While this is good advice, I’ve spent some time expaining such things to the types of guys who refuse to abandon the LJBF strategy, if you can call it that.

    The problem is mainly with the latter part of your advice. Typically, as soon as the girl gives some attention to the LJBFd, all logic and strategy goes out the window (i.e. once penis goes into vajjjin, the LJBFd, overwhelemed with the fuzzy feelings of perceived success, will already be making wedding plans…)


  7. What about casual nudity (yours or hers) if an appropriate situation happens? I was LJBFing a girl when in my early twenties. One time we took a dip in her parents’ backyard pool when we were alone, and afterward I just casually changed form my swim shorts to regular clothes right in front of her. Banged her a coupel of days later — as though the undressing changed our dynamic.


  8. on December 24, 2012 at 11:55 am Days of Broken Arrows

    Just a word of warning here.

    I’ve had a longtime friendship with a woman I dated in college. She’s still hot and I occasionally regret I’m not still sleeping with her. But when you get to know a woman as a friend, you get to know parts of her you wish you didn’t.

    I must have subconsciously employed the advice above, because the other night she said she was through with the Alpha who has been “plate spinning” her and came right out and said “You’re closer to me than anyone, and I would really like to have a relationship, so let’s think about it.”

    My thoughts? At first it was “Cool!” About a minute later it was “Um, no!” I know what she’s really like — I’m not going there even for easy sex. I could not put put up with her drama on a daily basis.

    What we don’t realize is that there might be a subconscious reason we’re friends with them and maybe it was *us* who chose orbiter status because deep down we knew we didn’t really want them. Most of the females we’re friends with are histrionic drama queens who want female harems. If they were decent women, they wouldn’t be fucking around with male friends to begin with.

    Finally, it also occurred to me that I kept her around because she’s a pipeline to a lot of good-looking women with who she’s friends. This area we need to explore — women lead to other women.


    • If they were decent women, they wouldn’t be fucking around with male friends to begin with.


      Let the NAWALT hamsterwauling begin.


      • on December 24, 2012 at 12:39 pm NoQuarterForCatLadies

        Nah, it’s not that not all women are like that, it’s that any male friend who they fuck around with wasn’t actually a friend, and was in fact an evil guy pretending to be nice the entire time. Therefore, it was totally justified for them to fuck over the “friend” in the first place.


      • “Hamsterwauling” = le portmanteau juste. Brilliant.


    • Good move telling her no. Assuming she’s in her late 20’s early 30’s, if you had agreed, it would’ve been female imperative (cuckolding) time


      • on December 24, 2012 at 12:59 pm Days of Broken Arrows

        Exactly. I’m not about to jump into this on her terms like I’m some puppy being given a treat. And it’s beyond arrogant she even thought to ask, as if I was her servant (hence my point about why I subconsciously never wanted anything serious).

        It also shows how women can be insanely manipulative and how they think we’re too stupid to notice or see through their “feminine wiles.: Then they wonder why they get played.

        BUT…I didn’t give her an answer, which I indicated. I want to see if I can spin this into occasional sex, which is how it worked best back in the day. Plus, I’m into one of her friends so I don’t want to alienate her too bad.

        Anyway, no answer = I have the power now. Whatever the case, this is the last woman you’d want to commit to, unless you want to be committed.


      • “It also shows how women can be insanely manipulative and how they think we’re too stupid to notice or see through their “feminine wiles.: ”

        They only think that because it’s so true so often.


    • the other night she said she was through with the Alpha who has been “plate spinning” her and came right out and said “You’re closer to me than anyone, and I would really like to have a relationship, so let’s think about it.”

      My thoughts? At first it was “Cool!” About a minute later it was “Um, no!” I know what she’s really like — I’m not going there even for easy sex. I could not put put up with her drama on a daily basis… histrionic drama queens who want female harems…


      You’re writing the script for yourself!!!

      SHE: “I would really like to have a relationship with you.”

      YOU: “Remind me again why any sane man would wanna get nekkid with a histrionic drama queen like you?!?”

      At this point, remember that COOKING AND LAUNDRY are your best friends in these situations.

      Something like: “Did your mother even teach you how to iron a man’s dress shirt?”

      Or like: “And you put Roquefort in your Macaroni & Cheese, which is just totally retarded.”

      And after a little more back-n-forth banter, you slam her with: “If I ended up with you, I’d need to bring five or six sister wives into the home so that you could be happy dominating them all as the first wife. Sheesh!!! If I’m gonna be puttin’ that kinda maintenance into you, then our sex life had better be off-the-charts smokin’ hawt.”


      • on December 24, 2012 at 1:01 pm Days of Broken Arrows

        Hehe. See my reply above. I’m into one of her friends, so you’re reading my (sick) mind here. Hahahaha.


    • “What we don’t realize is that there might be a subconscious reason we’re friends with them and maybe it was *us* who chose orbiter status because deep down we knew we didn’t really want them…”

      I swear you’re on to something here, mate. One must be careful of post hoc rationalizations/sour grapes/whatever, but I think sometimes our guts put the brakes on our balls for the sake of self preservation. I wonder if the beta-orbiter approach is occasionally more like a cautious recce of what looks like fertile ground, which our instincts suggest may conceal a minefield.

      I still can’t help feeling a twinge of regret for ‘friends’ I never fucked, but cold, calculating hindsight tells me – without any doubt – that I also dodged a bullet in several cases.

      Of course, the standard advice to young bucks still applies: don’t be a pussy and put yourself in the position to be LJBF’d in the first place, but looking back as a man of more experience can alter one’s perception of events and not judge one’s younger self so harshly.


  9. And here we see there is no dignity in being the friend of a woman. A REAL friend. A girlfriend with a penis. The only thing to do is use her to practice your skills on so you can get used to hearing about the filthy whore’s pig ways and truly understand the truth about a woman, firsthand.

    After you fuck her and she hasn’t shown signs she’s going to press charges against her “good friend”, you should of course dump this “friend”.

    Anyway I can’t stand talking to women unless its leading up to fucking and this has been the case my entire life, as far back as elementary school. So to those men who actually enjoy the company of these awful creatures when you aren’t fucking them, my hat goes off to you.


  10. “The pain …is less painful than the pain” ???

    Why not “less intense”, it’s way smoother.

    I’m ACCUSTOMED to a certain standard of writing on this venerable blog. Therefore I’m ENTITLED to complain.

    And no, I’m not a woman.


  11. “I don’t want to ruin our friendship” = I don’t want to ruin the attention gravy train I’m getting by giving you anything in return.
    Women really do understand the concept of hand. And they command it boldly and ruthlessly. The average beta male, with no concept of game, is ass-out everytime


  12. She fucked a hot guy last night…I guess I’m too nice of a guy when I give her this.


  13. I can conceive that this strategy could work.

    But why?

    Just go chase some of the other three billion chicks in the world. Even if only 20% of those are of fertile age and only 20% of those are bangable, there are still over 100 million chicks to go chase. Jesus Fucking Christ.


    • on December 25, 2012 at 1:12 am Dr Van Nostrand

      I can conceive that this strategy could work.

      But why?”

      Exactly. All said and done..isnt a beta orbiters pussy acquisition really a more convuluted version of a “pity fuck”..Any non repulsive non omega would eventually wear down any hot chicks defenses given enough time ,emotional connnect and proximity.

      But would either party wake the next morning with a feeling of joie de vivre?
      Most likely not.


  14. I find platonic girlfriends are a great opportunity to practice some honest, mutually enjoyable sexual harassment without all the politics of actually fucking the person. Some of them I have gotten into a habit of fucking when both drunk, then not talking about it during the week. Great arrangement if both parties are into it.

    Good post, and I’d only add that an element of self-amusing harassment is very beneficial if you’re trying to sexualize the friendship. Text her pictures of yourself after the gym, saying “hell yeah I pity the poor girl I’ll be slaying from the bar later.” Ask her embarrassing questions about her sex life, making sure to crack about the nerds she’s probably getting with. Trick her into looking at dick pics in your phone. In every way, reframe it so she is orbiting you.

    This shit works, and it’s great practice – you can get away with a lot more because she is less willing to break it off with a friend than a random dude from the club. Just make sure she’s reacting with that mix of exasperation and good humor, and not genuine distaste. If she does the latter, why are you hanging out with her in the first place?


    • platonic girlfriend… fucking when both drunk, then not talking about it during the week…

      Or, in the vernacular, what they call Holy Matrimony.


    • Seconded. I’ve got a cute tomboy friend. I keep her around to make my girlfriend jealous. She willingly plays along with this(girls LOVE such manipulative games).

      It’s a two way bargain: I’ve had to persuade some of her discarded beta orbiters to move on with their lives, stop following her home, et cetera.


    • “Some of them I have gotten into a habit of fucking when both drunk, then not talking about it during the week.”

      If you’re doing that, you’re establishing a fuckbuddy with no commitment…pretty much the polar opposite of platonic relationship.


  15. what do you think of this ‘self-rating’ quiz made for girls? I need your opinions because I want to rate my looks but I don’t want to ask people to rate me.

    thank you


    • The test seems flawed somewhere. I tried to score a 100% for a girl and maxed out at 67%. My tastes aren’t one-third subjective compared to the standard model.

      I think there is a modifier built-in to preempt self-esteem issues (both on the high end and low end). In other words, not scientific. These studies hide the subjectivity deeper than simply wild-guessing the resulting number. That doesn’t make it any more accurate than a subjective judgment of a still, 2D image, just more difficult to detect the bullshit, as it is buried in assumptions like, “huge eyes” are 3.8 points better than “larger-than-normal eyes.”

      Further, without drifting into the “eye of the beholder” lie, there is more than the physical to account for composite attraction. Finally, bodies in motion (4D) add and detract substantially from an abstract motionless (2D) self-assessment.

      The real problem with making beauty assessments in our age isn’t the inescapably subjective component, but rather our ideologically tainted standards of beauty. What we know to be beautiful has been called ugly, and if that lie is perpetuated for decades and generations, we eventually lose our ability for true judgment, setting our minds against our senses. “Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?”



      • what did you answered to the questions trying to get 100%?


      • I answered the qualities that corresponded to my understanding of “physically attractive” in a woman, a subject in which I am expert. Along with three billion other men.

        “Long legs” or “stubby legs”? Hmm. Hmmmmm.


      • well, I also answered with what I thought was attractive and I got “100%”, It seems that you need to answer accordingly with that scientific reserch on physical attractiveness that says “larger than average eyes, small nose, slightly up turned nose, full lips, high forehead, thin jawline, hourglass body shape, long legs…” I answered those things and got 100%


      • Those were all of my answers as well. It’s not a difficult test to ace, which is why I suspected they built-in an ego deflater. But if you got 100%, email me your number.


  16. During high school, I was a total (higher-)beta nerd. I was LJBFed, but I didn’t want to hear complaints about their sex life, I used to tell imaginary stories about MY sex life (I’m a pathological liar so it helped afterwards). And once a girl who friendzoned me asked me if another guy she heard about that I knew was hawt.

    I simply answered : “I can’t tell you that. I’m not your girlfriend”.

    I never spoke to her again, and something started to change inside me that day. Soon after, I stumbled upon the Mystery Method. I escaped from my beta era rather unscathed, and I did fine in college.



  17. on December 24, 2012 at 12:42 pm NoQuarterForCatLadies

    The only problem with this advice: while it would likely work, anyone who could actually implement it wouldn’t be in this type of relationship. Anyone who tries it is going to see it blow up in their faces.

    Although it’s probably worth the try anyway as a first step to becoming the type of person who wouldn’t get sucked into orbit in the first place.


    • Actually, this seems like something that would require more game than it would take to approach.

      Which is probably to the point, as it’s easier to replace them than it is to chase them.

      Applicable Commandments of Poon:

      III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority
      VI. Always keep two in the kitty
      XI. Be irrationally self-confident
      XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little
      XV. Maintain your state control
      XVI. Never be afraid to lose her

      All of these are 10x easier to follow whenever you do not try a strategy like this.


  18. Completely OT, but it’s science so I thought you should know:


  19. Did six approaches last night. Six rejections. Maybe the beta male orbiters are on to something. I went home alone and unsexed, they probably had a shot in the dark later that night when the booze flowed.


  20. That’s gold, Jerry! Gold!


  21. This great, but I would like to add something.

    For the gentlemen of game who are already gaming (not being beta bitch boys), this advice is useful for something great.

    When you hit a drought.

    I have a couple close female friends whom would jump at the chance of fucking me because I do hang out with them, and I do do these steps, but quite simply I like their company as people and have other women I could bang. So I treat them like my platonic friends and even though they tell me of their sexual exploits or whatever, this drives them nuts.

    If for whatever reason I hit a drought, or am invested in school and work, I call my female friends over and bang them until I’m back on my feet with new pussy. Don’t get me wrong, they regret having fucked their best friend and all that mushy shit, but if you reassure them you were both in the moment and that that’s all it was, shit usually goes back to normal granted you never make the mistake of bringing it up again (until you go for another bang).

    Friendzone game is great to have in the back pocket if you hold the power of the friendzone in the first place as it always gives you some side or back up pussy.


  22. It’s better to not be an orbiter in the 1st place but nice post.


  23. That would be pretty epic if someone actually played the beta friend for 6+mos only to do what CH advocates here.

    I find it hard to believe that a beta could actually pull this off without some serious….enlightenment of the red pill sort.
    All the recommended tactics simply are not in beta boy’s toolset.

    Concerning female friends…well I have several. By “friends” i define that as a girl that makes my dick hard whom I have not yet fucked due to logistical reasons.

    I am fortunate to work in an atmosphere that has in its employ many many fuckable babes. I make it a point to talk to all of them when they are around me and do one of several things

    1.DHV myself with stories about my current LTR and how she gets jealous alot about other women.

    2.Flirt and immediately talk about how flirting is natural and acceptable even when Im in a serious relationship because women are beautiful and I cant help myself. This leads to
    a) me touching them and possibly kissing, making out depending on what I feel I can get away with.
    b) fucking, which turns them into a ff (fuck friend)

    3. Recite lines from old Ric Flair interviews, slightly changing them to claim for myself and the circumstance and get them hyped on the charisma.

    4. Make it clear that I am a very sexual person and any girl that does not harden my studcock up immediate glance is invisible. This seems to make them smile.

    5. Make comments about their body while looking at them with a critical eye. Kind of like the way an art critic would look at the newest paintings in a gallery. i will go into detail about things I like about certain body parts and why..and also what it does to me. I will also go into detail about the things that I would like to see changed.


  24. Another use for ‘undercover orbiter’ is when you’re trying to bang friends of friends. If you meet several girls, want to bed them all, but they know about each other, I found that going for all at once rarely works with any particular one. Just personal experience. Focus on one, flirt with the rest (be a very lightweight orbiter), see what happens with the one, then focus on the next. If you do it right there’s a good chance you’ll be able to tap several girls in the same social circle before the gig is up (and even then it’s usually up only temporarily). Making yourself an ‘alpha orbiter’ for maximum ROI can be quite profitable.


  25. CH, you should do a write-up of how to re-establish dominance after the beta-ization process has gone a step or two forward. So much of the alpha allure relies (in my eyes) on maintaining mystery and withholding intimacy, and it’s very hard to get that back if you slip up. I usually break it off after a certain point when the adulation wears off, but it would be nice to get a fresh start.


  26. on December 24, 2012 at 5:36 pm Johnycomelately

    You better make sure you bang like Dionysus if you bang one of her friends because chicks compare notes.

    It’s a whole lot easier to put in a sub par performance with a stranger than a member of a gaggle.


    • on December 25, 2012 at 1:04 am Dr Van Nostrand

      I agree. I remember one of my colleagues wasnt quite up to par with to tap this hot Romanian sales exec. That pretty much blew his chances with the rest !


  27. I’d suggest that it is critical that the orbiter fucks her to a lump of flesh and juices to establish his potential “alphaness”. This will come handy with the distancing protocol the hamster will spin of charts and with significant certainty the orbiter will get another fuck.


  28. Great article. I would add one technique to the arsenal in this case: disqualification.

    “You’re not my type.

    “We don’t have much sexual tension.”

    “It wouldn’t work between us. We’d just be using each other for sex.”

    Add in some triangulation, as in the fact that she’s already involved and/or you’re also actively charming her hot friends/roommates/coworkers, and it is a recipe for some sexual heat from your “LJBF.”

    Use with caution–girls who put you in the friend zone first, then see you sexually, usually want to put you firmly into the LTR position because now you check all her boxes (ha!) for both compatibility and sexual chemistry.


    • Use with caution–girls who put you in the friend zone first, then see you sexually, usually want to put you firmly into the LTR position because now you check all her boxes (ha!) for both compatibility and sexual chemistry.

      See Holy Matrimony, as above.


  29. Some beta orbiters are actually alphas in the woman’s eyes. (I played that role many times before I learned I was hot.) Several women played the “I’m fucking him” card on me that I later found out were faking (a couple were heartborken when I told them I was in love with someone else.) These are probably the betas that can convert the women.


    • Several women played the “I’m fucking him” card on me that I later found out were faking (a couple were heartborken when I told them I was in love with someone else.)

      Could you elaborate? The “I’m fucking him” card, as you put it, is generally recognized as telling you that you have no chance, and that if they were “heartbroken”, they were disappointed at losing their orbiter. (Remember, women display feelings at a much lower threshold than men do, generally.)


    • All females should think about this before opening their legs to someone who isn’t committed to them.


      • Most females believe that a dad isn’t necessary, and since they’re the ones either divorcing or fucking the guy willingly… I’d bet the percentage of them who truly don’t understand there won’t be a father around is in the minority. Unfortunately.


      • Vegas odds on that one: None.


      • And yet you don’t spread your legs to guys that would commit to you. So what are you implying, we already bought that lie once you really think we’re gonna buy it a second time?


      • please. As though you’d ever commit to someone who’d spread her legs for every man before you who had offered commitment. Women may tell lies but so do men and most of us know this one.


      • Please, stop selling your truth-twisting to yourself or to us. No one is buying it. You think that committing to women makes a man beta. That’s a joke. Men can commit and still be as alpha as hell. We will open our legs to men that rule us, but also commit to us.

        A woman has the best sexual experience with an alpha that can have as many women as he wants but chooses to commit to her thereby developing her trust for him, not an unsophisticated cad/lute she meets in a bar who promises to give her a sexual experience she will never forget only to end up with a Tucker Max who thinks of himself first and if he can get the girl off too he’s fine with it, but it’s an afterthought for him. Only idiotic sluts fall for Tucker Max or men like him. Indeed, you don’t need to commit to such women. Maybe it’s time to look for better quality girls.


      • Whoa nelly: never really expected an answer much less one so rich in rationalisation and seriously sad overly obvious personal motivations.

        First of all I think it’s hilarious you’re projecting your own “truth-twisting” on to me by basically emplying a strategy I personally call “skewing the scale” and is so often used by women when they feel they have to make a point but nothing in reality really fits as a basis for the arguement.
        What you’re doing is basically bullshitting that any man who commits is alpha when you’re actually talking about the hypergamic pipe-dream that alphas commit.
        Now to enforce that little gem you’re basically doing a one-dimensional portrayal that anyone outside that top 20% is nothing more than some little lower-beta loser.
        Now the whole trick is of course to skew the proportion so that you can lure in the upper half of betas into thinking they really are eligible as alphas for women. Basically you’re repackaging the blue pill™ and trying to sell it off as something fresh because you have a personal stake in shaping the views of the upper half of betas which constitute your backups.

        Something else I find hilarious is that besides throwing a little moral tantrum, because you have a personal stake in disproving the very simple point I make; is that you manage to shoe-horn in that old adage that any woman who fits in the carousel-riding category is of course A: a minority B: a total hypergamic slut. The format of this arguement is of course once again heavily relying on skewing the scales and making them highly black-and-white.
        The sad fact is most women are hypergamic sluts indeed. Agreed: only a few are completely slutty and total alpha-cock-whores. However we also have those mundane, average nice girls who while not behaving slutty/whorish retain all the entitlements and selfish, demeaning and dismissive attitudes towards betas.

        So no hun: the red pill is being produced en masse and shitty arguements like yours are laughably transparent. It would have been a better idea to shut up instead of inadvertently increasing the validity of my arguement.
        What was the argeument I made in the first place? It’s that old saying: don’t listen to what women say but what women do.
        So keep on hating betas who are no longer accepting a relation to women where moral demands of socio-sexual reciprocity and equality are a “turn-off” and keep trying to shame them by portraying them as lower unsavory Tucker Max betas. The fact is you’re achieving the exact opposite when you do this. It’s really the one bit of friendly advice I can give you and all your “nice girl” kind: stop lying and stop trying to sell that blue pill.

        I have a heartiste post I think it’s good if you read. It basically outlines what you’re trying to protect and what you self-proclaimed “nice/good/clean girls” have in common with your far more slutty brethren:
        Hypergamy is basically nothing more than a utilitarian associative view on men based on the innate selfishness and entitlement that most women are born with and refuse to acknowledge, much less control it. And last but not least: unsuccessfully try and defend it.


      • Often enough, it’s not that the father split, it’s that mommy kicked daddy out.


    • That’s sweet, but santa might never grant the wish these kids seek because Mother doesn’t need a man or a father, she is too independent and strong.


  30. I’ve tried a variation of this that Krauser calls “Long Game”….I use that mostly for girls in my social circle where I can build up tension without my usual hard dominance.

    The difference is by offering this mix i’m usually a bit more successful longer-term in keeping these women in my own orbit.

    The ones I game hard usually spikes attraction, bang them but then they often get spooked because i’ve over-gamed them.

    This was written about here about a previous post i did called “The Player Vibe”.


  31. on December 25, 2012 at 12:49 am Dr Van Nostrand

    Being a good looking higher beta, I was never was a beta orbiter because most of my female friends who were coworkers and were either married or in relationships most of the time were interested in me.But I was bit of a knucklehead as I didnt realize that these women were giving very strong IOIs, I remember dropping off this married friend of mine- a Muslim chick- at her house during Ramadan and she asked me if I wanted to come up for “coffee”(Ramadan hours are for fasting) and she told me during the ride that was her husband wouldnt be home until much later.I stupidly reminded her about Ramadan! And the friendship slowly fizzled off,especially after I quit the company.

    This was but one example of many female friends of mine I shouldve banged but was too stupid to notice any IOIs.In such cases, rarely did any of them want to be friends with me anymore.I suppose the “rejection” was too much to bear.

    Now that I am self employed, I usually take the traditional route of banging the chicks I meet on day game rather than coworkers and doing the nightclub thing(which I frankly loathe)…..I cant say I have any real female friends left!


    • on December 25, 2012 at 1:07 am Dr Van Nostrand

      Forgot to ask, anyone else here inadvertently LJBFd a hot chick? Did you share the same experience in that the said that chick doesnt want to deal with you again be it a sex interest or a gay boyfriend/girlfriend.


  32. I’ve never understood the “Let’s just be friends” deal. I’ve been offered that position twice in my life, and instantly rejected it both times. I wasn’t subtle. I unequivicably stated, “I’m not interested in being your friend.” The first time was when I was going through a divorce. The second was when I broke it off with a girlfriend about 2 years after my divorce.

    I don’t know why a man would ever want to be “friends” with a lady he’s fucking. I have friends who are women. I’ve even had close, attractive, female friends. But I was never interested in them as potential bed-mates. But even those females dropped out of my life once they found husbands. The husbands recognized me as a “leader” and didn’t want the competition. I completely understood that, and never tried to make an issue of it.

    I’m a guy who is used to being in charge. I choose who my friends are, and I choose who I will pursue as a sexual conquest. And I don’t mix the two categories. Why anyone would do that completely escapes me.


  33. I don’t usually comment here but I see that nobody has stated the obvious so I will.

    In fact, the beta orbiter strategy has some sense. Passingby explains how it worked 10,000 years ago.

    Today is not that different but the beta orbiter doesn’t wait months to get his “prize”. He waits some years until the woman approaches “The Wall” and alphas stop paying attention to her. Then, when the biological clock is ticking, the woman is willing to marry the beta. This marriage is likely to end in divorce when the woman is through with her reproduction and starts chasing alphas again.

    Betas are the men women want to save for later, just in case Mr. Alpha doesn’t commit. Meanwhile, they can extract emotional support and favors from them. Don’t be this chump.


  34. When I was 17 I made a deal with a really good girl “friend” that if we both weren’t married by 30, we would get hitched…

    Hahaha I wish I could slap 17 year old me in the balls.


  35. I need help asap. Im a virgin and i’ve been trying to loose it i have very little experiance with women. And it seems like a fuck up every chance i get! I just dont understand what im doing wrong


  36. While I don’t think men (or women for that matter) should accept the role of orbiter in the life of anyone they sincerely want to be with, there is a basic point to be made about the necessity of presence.

    Men who don’t truly understand women are foolish in this way. We women love who is in our lives *at the moment.* If a man isn’t willing to stay there once he gets there, he loses our love to someone else. PUA and Manosphere types expound that no woman is special. It is equally true that no man is special and that he can be just as easily replaced. While some things *become* more special than others, they have to be maintained. Many men have this idea that they can leave and then pick right up with women where they left off. It isn’t true. In the passage of time, for better or worse, with the opportunity to do so, women move on. There is a window of opportunity and it must be seized and capitalized upon or it grows cold.

    This is not to say that women are not loyal or honorable given the right structure. They should never be tested in this manner in the first place. A man who truly loves a woman would never allow her to learn her true fickle nature. A woman would never be so sure of a man’s love for her as to leave him in the company of a bunch of tens for any amount of time and assume things would stay the same between them.

    We cannot expect superhuman, and unnecessary, efforts from each other. When people decide they want to be together, they must understand it is a choice to remove themselves from other temptation and it will be an undertaking to sustain what they have cultivated. Instead of ditching people the moment anything seems like work, we need to remember that the greatest things we ever achieve take the most time and effort.


    • spin hamster, spin to your heart’s content


    • “It is equally true that no man is special and that he can be just as easily replaced.”

      That’s straight bullshit and you know it. I will fix it for you “No BETA is special and that he can be just as easily replaced.”.

      Alphas are not easily replaced at all. That’s why women will march straight onto the firing line knowing damn well they aren’t good enough and going to be pumped and dumped with the hamster telling her this time will be different. To get commitment to an alpha is extremely hard. That’s the counter weight, attractive women are not more attractive than an alpha. Alpha trumps all. That’s why it’s worth it to get to that rarified air of alphadom because it’s so damn worth it.


    • “it has to be maintained…” As in high-maintenance… yeah it’s called diminishing return on investment. PUAs create the magic ‘moment’ in a laughable fraction of the time, close the deal, and bail when it she gets uncooperative.


    • Tits or GTFO.


    • “They should never be tested in this manner in the first place.”
      I Think there is a significant difference whether woman will jump for another man as soon as i turn my back, and the one that will wait for much more.
      Moreover most women won’t be able to learn about their fickle nature after a thousand encounters eyes to eyes with it…

      That is what testing is all about – yes we know she’ll fall – but how quick, is a real question. And that’s what determines slut from keeper.
      Why isn’t that obvious?
      I can love her all i want if she’s a slut. It’s all in vein than, because she’ll leave me once she gets the chance to cheat.

      If i don’t know how does she acts in male company i’m the blue pill monkey waiting to be dumped… In my experience before you see her in action there isn’t many things by which you could assess level of someone’s slutiness.

      “We cannot expect superhuman, and unnecessary efforts from each other”,
      Is it unnecessary when you have kids, and have to go work somewhere where she and kids can’t go? Her not being a slut and not prone to frequent such places would be a deal maker.

      Sure i give you that, that you shouldn’t give up on first sight of work if you are already tied to her by kids…


      • Yes, there is a great range of behavior in terms of loyalty and I do agree with you that testing to some extent is needed.

        It shouldn’t take much to ascertain its not a coincidence.

        I’m curious from your reply if you consider children the only reason to establish committments with women.


      • well it’s all pretty much intertwined. If i find a nice girl that resonates with my way of thinking, and is sympathetic with my life mission, also throw in a little bit of attraction, and that’s it, commitment is what i would have sought.

        It’s not also that i’m insisting on finding all of these traits in perfect condition in order to seek something more, but all of it has to be there.

        If the question was about seeking non sexual commitment from women, yes i’ve found them to be great social asset, since guys tend to respect you more if you’re constantly hanging around 9s and 10s. These women can also in times extract resources from men, and i myself may get a hand on these extracted resources by knowing these girls. If some other girl has some resources i think i can get it quite easily – and than it’s my turn to share…

        To remain in the presence of hot girls you have to shine a lot of the times, and that as i can see produces a lot of disdain in other men, but on the contrary a lot of sympathy in almost all of the women that are exposed to moments of my charisma.

        What i managed to notice is that in high school – i was very popular with guys, nearly all of the girls hated me(for being jerk and so) – except the hottest ones. Now when i’m on a college, the script has turned.
        Now most of the girls like me, the hottest ones especially, but most of the guys can hardly stand me – except those most influential that at least don’t express it that openly – most of the time.

        It seems to me that some kind of mutual orbiting has developed between me and my girl – friends (one setting is a 10, with a 9). All of the why do they keep socializing with me are charisma, intelligence, dominance, constant flirting, distinctiveness… They all have either husbands or boyfriends much older than me, and i simply because of my faith don’t want to cheat, though flirting and kino are constantly there. So to summarize i think that in the future i will befriend a lot of girls/women but for practical purposes(social proof, but also emotional needs, and probably lack of associates. What their agenda will be i can’t tell, but so far, as i can see their relations with me have been fueled with sexual energy the most(also i used to be the most humoristic person around…)…


      • Thank you for your reply, Alexander.

        “If i find a nice girl that resonates with my way of thinking, and is sympathetic with my life mission, also throw in a little bit of attraction, and that’s it, commitment is what i would have sought.

        It’s not also that i’m insisting on finding all of these traits in perfect condition in order to seek something more, but all of it has to be there”

        It is nice to see people with realistic goals and I join you in them. Perfection in God, acceptance in people.


    • If a man isn’t willing to stay there once he gets there, he loses our love to someone else. PUA and Manosphere types expound that no woman is special. It is equally true that no man is special and that he can be just as easily replaced.

      Speak for the men/boys in your life. I have found just the opposite to be true. Non-presence increases attraction. They even made a whole cliché out of it: “Absence makes the heart grow fonder.”

      You praise the very quality that makes orbiters so contemptible and despicable to women: they’re always around. This feminine desire for presence simply does not match up with the reality. Be careful what you wish for. More on your naturally contradictory expectations below.

      Are you attracted to your father (assuming he stuck around)? Your brothers? Here is another wise saying for you: “Familiarity breeds contempt.” You cannot long for that which you already possess; the meaning of “eros” is longing. Familiarity militates against our attraction to the exotic, even if it is essential for successful bonding. Admiration and love are still possible, but not the explosive attraction of matter and antimatter which makes romantic thrill. Hence the hypergamous dilemma: a woman is not sovereign over her emotions enough to both admire and long for the same man. Therefore the man must become sovereign over her emotions, rather than strive for the disastrous fiction he can be both lover and provider to her. A man can’t be there and not be there at the same time.

      Romance stories always end with the guy getting the girl. They do not contemplate the aftermath of such a hard-won victory. The epilogue is necessarily unerotic in comparison to the exciting chase.

      The great modern example of this in art is the concluding scene of The Graduate. After the whirlwind climax, after catching their breath, the nameless ennui sets in, all portrayed in the eyes, enraptured and wild at the chapel, already flickering into lifelessness on the bus:

      An experienced, absolute master of female psychology has a chance of artfully combining the two modes of male attractiveness. But since the needful qualities of the different roles are cancelling and contradictory, most men fall into one category or the other, but never both. At least not naturally. The stolid provider cannot be adept at the mating dance, nor can the exciting mate instantly morph into provider. But such are the demands of hypergamy. Control them. ride roughshod over them, or they control the relationship.



      • Presence is not the same thing as smothering. It means the person is felt- even if they are away. A woman, left to her own devices, will fall in love with whoever is around, which is why women fall in love with their kidnappers.

        [Heartiste: And why a society’s men must mate guard their women by mate guarding the nation’s borders so influxes of migrants don’t assume the role of the kidnapper.]


  37. Russia held a roadrace for women wearing 3.5″ high heels. Note how competing required skills not taught in America.


    • A woman puts on a high-heeled shoe during a high-heel race in St.Petersburg July 21, 2007. Some 100 women took part in the race wearing high-heeled shoes with a required minimum height of 9 centimetres (3.5 inches) to compete for a shopping voucher worth 50,000 roubles (about 2000 U.S. dollars). (Reuters Photo)

      They do things right in Russia. 😀


  38. on December 25, 2012 at 4:52 pm Rihanna Deserved It

    Young males who want to learn game can benefit from orbiting hot girls if they implement a utilitarian strategy:

    When a fatty AKA practice girl calls you ugly, use your female friend to keep your confidence high. It’s an unwritten rule that all hot girls must compliment their beta orbiters.

    When you fall for a girl and are tempted to text her, shoot a text to your friend instead. This will provide you with the dopamine your brain desires while allowing you to maintain an aloof image with the target girl.

    When a girl you are fucking stops responding to your texts, hang out with your friend and bask in her feminine attention. This will prevent depression and ONEitis.


  39. Thanks for this, CH. You have a knack for writing posts that are relevant to my interests just when I need them.


  40. Lotsa girls on here today, hmm. In case you are looking for a last second gift idea for your bf…


  41. […] to be effective with a friendzone […]


  42. Dr. Frank Salter speech on multiculturalism and its effects on humanitarianism.

    Starts at 12 min 50 sec to 21 min 20 sec.


  43. OT, but a classic example of what happens when the sexes rub against each other in the workplace.
    Dude fires dental assistant because he admits that he’ll end up coming onto her, and needs to protect his marriage. She sues. Iowa’s supreme court upholds his side.
    OOT, check out the awful hair.


  44. However, if approaching and hitting on girls with sexual intention is simply out of your realm of possibility, then there are ways to conduct your undercover orbiter strategy that will maximize your odds of a bang with the torment of your dreams.

    Yeah, but “if approaching and hitting on girls with sexual intention is simply out of your realm of possibility” then chances are good he doesn’t have the gumption to execute your too-clever-by-half strategy either. There’s a reason he allowed himself to be subject to the agonies of the friendzone, and it’s not by choice.

    Maybe if he had the degree in female psychology that comes from the school of hard knocks, he would be capable of manipulation at that level; i.e., the plan from start to finish would be to deliberately orbit as cover for an eventual fifth-column strike. Otherwise, the only self-respecting thing to do in the friendzone, once you figure out the real score, is bail.

    This sounds suspiciously like the anecdote RappaccinisDaughter relayed a few threads back. But instead of restricting himself to the limitations of the poor sap, CH imagined what he himself would do in that circumstance to take advantage. But the very mentality that invites and traps a man into the friendzone precludes the possibility of his taking advantage — until he achieves escape velocity from her orbit.

    And what is the best way to escape the drag from her gravitational pull? Yes, exactly: by “approaching and hitting on [other] girls with sexual intention.” Then he goes all SyFy on her planetary existence, where the formerly-orbiting spaceman becomes the sun, and she begins to naturally revolve around him (along with a harem of eight other buxom planets).



  45. “to befriend girls that one would like to fuck must have some utility for some men some of the time, or it wouldn’t exist in the state of nature. ”

    These days, it’s because dads who got married by using the strategy tell their sons that it will work, or women who don’t actually understand what attracted them to their husbands in the first place tell young men (their sons, or their friends) that they really like that their husband is their friend.


  46. Regarding when women give the LJBF to their beta orbiters, something I wrote elsewhere:

    In my experience, LJBF happens the first time the guy actually makes a non-deniable pass at the girl. Having been there myself, and looking back, it was clear that I’d never explicitly propositioned the girl before getting to LJBF. So, aside from the idea that girls are socialized to not say “no”, there’s quite often nothing explicit to say “no” to!

    From the girl’s point of view, here’s this guy who’s hanging around her, they have a good time talking, and maybe being a little physical (never gets to even a kiss, or removing clothes, though), and then, after a few months of this, out of the blue, the guy either asks her on a “date” (using that word), or makes an unmistakeable pass which says (usually in a few more words) “I wanna fuck you”. She doesn’t see all those months of hanging out as “investment” in her, or even as the guy working up the courage to make a pass at her, she sees it as something coming out of nowhere. Because if he had wanted to fuck her all along, why the hell didn’t he make that obvious going in, like any normal (alpha-ish) guy?

    Note – if she *is* aware that it took the guy months to work up to making a pass at her, it’s *even worse*, because now she *knows* he’s a coward.


  47. “But the strategy — if it can be called that — to befriend girls that one would like to fuck must have some utility for some men some of the time, or it wouldn’t exist in the state of nature.”
    Heartiste, have you considered the possibility that orbiter behavior is not a successful strategy for males at all, but rather an expression of femininIty in males. Similar to how females now expend so much energy trying to be as masculine as possible. Neither are successful reproductive strategies, but they are being reinforced by the current culture. .


  48. As a recovering beta, who has done more than my fair share of ”white- knighting”, I find it fascinating – looking back – that just about all men have an inherent confidence within us.

    However misdirected, misplaced and mischanneled that confidence may be, most of us, when ”white-knighting”, have a genuine belief that we are ”different” to the ”other guys”, and that the girl of our affections will fall for us because ”we’re not like the others”.

    Yes, it’s obviously naive to attempt to get girls this way, but I think it’s encouraging to understand that if that diffident and deferential ”self-confidence” of betas were to be channeled in more of a realistic – and, possibly, uncomfortable – way, then it’s not such a huge step up in turning yourself from a doormat into a more desirable man.