Wayne Elise, Pacing, And Conversational Context

Wayne Elise, aka Juggler, is a fairly well-known and well-regarded pickup artist. He’s been in the business for a while, and his game guides, while occasionally derivative, are grounded in the basic reality of male-female psychosocial sex differences and thus useful to aspiring womanizers. He emphasizes the “warmth & connection” part of seduction, but tends to engage in a little too much PUA strawman bashing (probably in order to attract a wider audience). I, for one, am getting tired of reading “evolved” pickup artists caricature the neg with the same ignorant glee that feminists do.

Quibbles aside, he has some good insights, and this post at his blog exemplifies that. I’ll examine it here because his analogy of seduction to letting out a “rope of personal history” is very good, and a lesson that a lot of newbs would be wise to take into account.

Imagine a stranger next to you. They reach out and take the end of your rope from you. They begin reeling it into their arms. So long as you allow it, the rope passes from the floor around your feet, through your hands and collects in the arms of this other person.

This is the beginning of someone getting to know you. The details they learn about you in the first few minutes may be give-aways such as your taste in high-fidelity stereo speakers and the fact that your mouth goes crooked when you smile. But soon they could be exposed to a slice of your dead-kitten sense of humor. Then later it could be your feeling toward relationships. Eventually it could be your sexual preferences. And on and on.

Through this process of information transfer, you stop feeling like a stranger to the other person. You begin to feel like a friend or potential lover.

This is an artsy reinterpretation of the comfort stage of Mystery’s Attraction => Comfort => Seduction three-stage process. Women feel attraction for the aloof alpha, but they also feel more bonded — and hence more open to sexual surrender — to men with whom they have mutually shared personal information. The details of a life are the building blocks of a woman’s romantic imagination.

Now, of course, you can boldly lie about your details if you’d like, but unless you are a clinical sociopath you’ll find it easier to remain internally consistent and externally congruent if you don’t deviate too far from your real life history. This goes double if you plan to stick with a girl for longer than three months.

A reader may reasonably ask, “How do you reconcile women’s love for aloof alphas with their love for ‘getting to know each other’?”

The answer is in the conversational tension, as Elise says.

People won’t appreciate learning about your life-details if you just give them up. That would make you sort of a life-detail slut. […]

People appreciate hearing the amazing things you have to say more if they desire them first. Don’t push. Instead, counterintuitively, you should resist.

Returning to our metaphor. You want to keep your conversational partner in a state of wanting more – pulling on your rope, sort of speak. While, at the same time, YOU want to be in a state of resistance – keeping the length of rope between the two of you taunt. This tension gives you control over the transfer of your life-details.

What Elise is describing here are the classic pickup techniques known as “assuming the sale”, (i.e., this chick wants to know me better, so I’m gonna hold out until she’s throwing money at me to buy my product), and “pacing” (i.e., cat string theory; cats respond more enthusiastically to string that is being pulled away from them). There is a broader category heading that all of this could be put under: Overconfidence.

People may not consciously be aware of pacing but they respond to it.

Pacing that’s too fast deflates the tension out of an interaction. Imagine throwing all your rope into someone’s arms. There’s no more for them to want or seek.

But pacing that’s too slow makes people feel bored and as if the interaction isn’t going anywhere.

Knowing the balance only comes with real-world practice. Generally, the balance will be the same for most women you meet because women, like men, share generalizable psychological properties with their sex.

Elise offers an example of good conversational pacing (and also some good shit test passing):

PUA: “That was a famous tennis player,” he adds. “He – got – mad – at – people. Probably before your time. I was just trying to guess your age.”

PREY: “How old do you think?”

“I’m afraid I can’t answer that question.”

“Why can’t you answer that question?”

“Because if I do then all the tension will leave the conversation. As it stands, you want to know my guess and if I give that up I’ll lose your interest.”

“I promise you won’t lose my interest.”

“Fine. But first, let’s sit down and make ourselves a bit more comfortable, if that’s alright. Then I’ll tell you all about yourself. I’ve been told I have an intuitive nature.”

They sit down on the couch nearby.

“Where are your friends? Perhaps they should join us.”

“Don’t worry about them. I’m a big girl. I can take care of myself.”

“I bet you can. Okay, I think you’re twenty eight.”

She hits him in the shoulder.

“Okay. Twenty six?”

“You’re really bad at this.”

“I know. My credentials might have been over-stated.”

“How about you? How old are you?”

“Older than you. Let’s just put it this way. I’m your real father. I remember your mom. She was hot back in the 80′s.”

“She still’s hot.”

“I’m sure she is. People of any age can be sexy. [ed: female ego bait. the purpose of these pretty lie pebbles is to lull the woman into a state of reception to the man’s sexy taboo-breaking.] But personally I end up dating girls who are uh…”


“Younger, mostly.”

“Why do you do that?”

“Well, there’s a long answer to that question and a short answer.”

“What’s the short answer?”

“They’re hotter.”

“Okay, what’s the long answer.”

“I can’t really tell you. I’d have to show you.”

This is a textbook exhibition of flirting aka pacing. Women love this sort of “pulling teeth” kind of conversation because it signals to their hindbrains that the man engaging in it is not seeking their approval. And a man who is not interested in a woman’s approval is regarded by her evolved alpha male-detection cortical system as a man who likely gets plenty of female attention, and thus possesses the genes that would give her potential sons with him the same advantageous mating market genes.

Elise also illustrates bad conversational pacing with this example:

GAME NOOB: “I ride a fixie. Want to see my fixie porn?”

GIRL: “I have no idea what you’re talking about. Look. I didn’t ask to know anything about you. Perhaps you can hold some thoughts back.”

“I could. But I’m not going to. I’m an all out there kinda guy. I’m going to this fab party later. If you’re lucky I might invite you.”

“No thanks.”

“Aww. You’re playing hard to get. That’s so cute.”


“I hear an accent. Where are you from?”


“Ha. Nowhere. That’s funny. Can I buy you a drink?”

“Yes. I’ll take a piña colada but don’t even think about dropping a roofie in there. I’m not going to hook up with you.”

“Whoever said anything about hooking up? You’re more of the kinda girl I see as a friend.”


“Good. So what’s your name?”

Elise takes some gratuitous shots here at well-worn PUA disqualification lines (“You’re more of the kinda girl that I see as a friend”), but his overall point is that bad pacing — that is, giving away the store — can render otherwise effective PUA lines like “That’s so cute” embarrassingly try-hard and pathetically transparent.

The difference between a sour grapes disqualification and a cool-as-fuck disqualification is timing. When you’re chasing — when you’re on the losing end of a pickup attempt — your DQs will be perceived by her as spiteful sour grapes. When you’re being chased — when you have pickup hand — she will perceive your DQs as challenges and redouble her efforts to win your grudging approval.

Which, I believe, really gets at the core of why game-haters and feminists and traditionalist pedestalizers have found it easy to lampoon certain aspects of game philosophy. Yes, the neg is very easy to make fun of when you put it in the mouth of a generic, socially awkward noob, like Elise has done above, who practically assaults a woman with approval-seeking behavior and regurgitated PUA lines delivered with pressing urgency at the wrong times. But put the neg in the mouth of an accomplished seducer who understands the value of teasing women with crumbs of information, and of pulling back at just the right moments, and suddenly that same neg is explosive pussy dynamite.

All great philosophies and theories of the mind throughout history have had their old guard detractors who latched onto digestible concepts that offered possibilities of being distilled into simplistic caricatures and thus made meaningless outside of their philosophical and practical context. To this day, the neg continues to be mistakenly thought of as a brazen insult by the prestige press and their manboobed and feminist lackeys, and there seems to be no let-up to their determination to remain unschooled hicks in matters of seduction.


  1. I don’t understand why so many people can’t grasp the use of the “neg”. I don’t know if I got this solely from your site, or a mixture of you, Roosh, and Rolo, but it’s become pretty obvious to me that the neg isn’t about finding some way to make a dig at her; it’s about making it clear that you don’t take her that seriously without being so blatant that you piss her off.

    As you’ve said on here before: tease, tease, tease. Even in a serious relationship, playfully teasing keeps her interest better than anything else. Granted, if you’re dating European women, you have to rein that in more than usual.


    • “Granted, if you’re dating European women, you have to rein that in more than usual.”

      No, if you’re dating European women and you’re not fluent in their native language — i.e. your primary flirting language is English — you might have to rein it in, because nuances of meaning can get lost.

      If you speak their native language fluently, then flirting functions basically the same way it does in English.

      As much as the cultural relativists and deniers of biological foundations for human behavior might wish this wasn’t the case, human universals are real and undeniable, as anyone who is fluent in more than one language can confirm. Linguistic and slight cultural differences are a paper-thin cover upon universal patterns of male-female interaction.


    • “I don’t understand why so many people can’t grasp the use of the “neg”.”

      Because they don’t go out and try it and learn the calibration needed to understand “ohhh if I say it this way with this bull-in-a-china-shop timing I’m a socially awkward retard who pisses girls off but if I say it this other way with this other timing they drop their panties”.

      Keyboard jockies spouting their “theories” with no (or limited) field experience. Whether they’re shitty PUAs, keyboard jockies on manosphere comment sections, or feminists or average Aunt Sue type women who spout nonsense like “if my husband ever DARED tease me I’d divorce him instantly!!!!!!!” completely oblivious to how much their hubby actually does it.


      • If you are so smart, then give examples of everything you mentioned. We need specifics kid.


      • Sure. What specifically do you want examples of? Happy to clarify anything I talk about.


      • Calibration, timing, shitty PUAs are good for now. Also you said once that you never call a girl, just test. I can see this maybe, but why is this? Just being laconic or why don’t you ever let her hear your voice over the phone?


      • I’d like to know about the phone thing. My experience is that a day 2 is unlikely if I don’t talk to her on the phone. Text game is fine after that, but if I relied on it for the first meetup I’d get flaked on. It’s also a great test for a time waster. She doesn’t pick up or call back she’ll be a flake.


      • Calibration:
        – understanding that how the girl perceives herself on the 1-10 scale isn’t always the same as how you or everyone else perceives her

        – understanding how she believes you’ll perceive her on the 1-10 scale based on her life experience

        – reading whether she had a playful teasing personality or one that won’t receive negs well

        – reading whether you went too far with a neg or not far enough and pulling back to smooth it over or escalating further with another neg or callback humor

        – understanding what sort of neg will apply to what sort of personality type (can’t neg a girl’s looks if she doesn’t value her looks, maybe the neg should be about her social status or intelligence etc)

        – the environment you’re in and the company in her group

        etc etc etc. lots of little nuances you learn in the field. You can’t just READ about this shit.

        – how invested is she in you?

        – what is your value to her at any given time in the interaction? Low value + neg = lol fuck off loser, high value + neg = omg I want him to like me

        – what stage of the seduction are you in? Opener? Flirting? Rapport/comfort? End-game? Should you neg her when she’s opening up to you the way you’d neg her on approach? Is she so full of herself that you need to neg her all the way to the bedroom? Does she like you so fast that a neg will destroy her and fuck up the pickup?

        Shitty PUAs:
        – guys who don’t have enough field practice and fuck up all the stuff I described above lol sure an analytical person like myself could break down like 90% of all likely situations and calibrations for those situations…but it’d be thousands of pages of writing that even if you read it it wouldnt be internalize, and instead you could learn it in a few months by just going out 4+ times a week and trying it out.

        Phone stuff below.


      • (essentially I can tell you how to throw a hook punch. And you can read pages and pages of when the best opening for a hook punch is. You can even watch videos of boxing matches and pay attention to when they throw hooks.

        But if you haven’t stepped into the ring and thrown hundreds or thousands of hooks and noted when they work and don’t work and when they need modifications and what types of opponents will fall for them and how people react when you land them or how to recover when you miss them, you will get raped in your first fight. Especially when your “opponent” (ie – the hot girl) has thousands of hours in the ring already (girls learn calibration and basic gsme shit as soon as they grow tits just to survive the barrage of male/female good/bad attention they get daily).

        The only way to gain that skill and instinct and natural flow of “this is the time to throw a hook in this particular way at this particular spot” is to get in the fucking ring and take some bruises lol)


      • I just don’t like talking on the phone lol I grew up with IRC and ICQ and MSN and shit so txting is more natural to me. And people on the phone are boring and like, chew food or there’s long silences or “what? What was that?” etc. I’m just not a fan.

        My txting is pretty verbose. I send longer txts than the community advises (“bring da movies”) but I know what I’m doing so its fine. I’m essentially running the same verbal game I run in person but via txt so it’s a little slower paced but the teases and everything are the same style.

        I txt during the day because I know girl’s can’t talk on the phone at work and they’re usually bored shitless at work. So if I meet a girl Saturday and grab her # cause she works early in the morning, the next day I’ll txt her about how nice it is to sleep in while I know she’s at work and it starts a teasing vibe right there. Throughout her day we’ll txt, it’ll come in spurts as she gets a little 5 minute txting window here and there depending on her job and how busy she is. Some girl’s we’ll chat all day…so I’ve put in 8 hours of txting technically but we really only shot txts back and forth every hour or two. This builds comfort though so when I push for hanging out that night or after work tomorrow or whatever 1) she’s comfortable with me and 2) she’s used to me txting so it’s not weird for me to arrange a meet-up via txt.

        I’ll also txt late at night (10pm+) where she’s probably in bed chilling and winding down and not in a phone convo mood.

        I escalate via txt too if the vibe is there. I use txting to practice turning conversations sexual. You get time to think up a good response and figure out how to make whatever she said lead into innuendo and sexy flirting. This translates to real life with other girls where I’ve led so many convos to sex that it flows naturally now.

        If the signals are there I’ll escalate to turning her on or making her get herself off via txt too. Girls love the written word that’s why romance novels sell. They can get horny off a good description or just the right extremely direct phrase at the right time. And if her environment logistics allow it (night time txts she’s alone in her bed half naked, some girls jobs don’t watch them or they have a bathroom they can sneak off to etc) I’ll make her play with herself and usually try to make them send pics/vids as they do lol this is best with fuckbuddies you’ve already hooked up with but I do it with girls I haven’t banged yet too so that’s not a requirement. It just comes down to reading her emotional state in her txts and smoothly escalating when the logistics are solid enough.

        Every chick has a few swimsuit, naked titty, “playing with my pussy”, lingerie, etc pics of herself handy. You just want to get SOMETHING where she’s trusting you with this personal pic/vid and from there it usually snowballs because they get into the exhibitionism of it.

        For the record I pretty much never send pics of myself either lol I will if it’s a fuckbuddy and we’re just horny and I’m building up to later that night/week when we can meet up and finally fuck (tons of sexual tension built up by then) but new girls it’s a one-way street. I don’t send pics of my wang to randoms lol


      • Very nice. I think realizing at which state in seduction one is is the most difficult part for most.

        A good move when you are trying to get a girl’s pants off is to feel her butt then finger her pussy from behind. It’s easier than trying to go from the front. Also you don’t always progress in a line. Sometimes you have to step back a little then procede. You kiss her mouth, ears, face and neck, then stop. Do it again go lower and rub her crotch with her pants on then slow up. And so on.


      • My texts are also a little longer sometimes. There is a need to understand when to do thise. I have been escalating more during text. It doesn’t always work for me, but it’s better to have her chasing and using more words at first I think. I use dirty talk when I know she is just offering some LMR then we get straight to fucking when we see each other.

        My problem right now is when I’m high or drunk I talk a lot of shit and that can kill it sometimes if I’m not in 100%. I’m trying to figure out how to recover for that as that seems to be a problem for me. So what I have been doing is just not talking a lot during sex the first time. I use the dominance talk for the next fuck or later.


      • The way I talk, I make even boring statement interesting, so that is why I like the phone sometimes; but I can make certain statements more clearly with text. So the emotional talk is good with vocals and the commands and directions work well with text. I do like to command a girl with my voice, but mostly in person where she can see my body language and everything at once.


      • Damn, Yareally. I thought you were coming around to starting a blog. Whats the plan?


      • If he does, he needs to focus mostly on text game. He keep stating how much better he is than anyone at it. Maybe he is?


      • he already said it’s not gonna happen.
        he wanted to gather all his posts on the manosphere, but got lazy.


      • even worse I’m too lazy to bother logging into the WordPress account I made lol my phone auto-fills me in as yareally instead of my yareallypua one with the boobie avatar so it’s like fuck it this is good enough.

        Experiment FAIL!!


      • YaReally wrote:

        Because they don’t go out and try it and learn the calibration needed … Keyboard jockies spouting their “theories” with no (or limited) field experience.

        Hey, if all I had was “field experience,” I’d think it was the ne plus ultra of pick-up too. And I’d also think that everyone who disagreed were by definition “keyboard jockeys” spouting inert “‘”‘”theories.”‘”‘” Nowhere in your imagination is there room for people like Heartiste himself, who not only has the experience but also the mental acumen to develop theory around that experience.

        Some of us understand the power of the neg because we have seen it work and because we understand (and can articulate) why it works. Just because you can’t explain the source of your tricks’ power doesn’t prove that those who can lack time “in the field.” The two sources of knowledge are not related. In the best people they are unified, the wisdom of the street combined with the power of the tower.

        So the best you can come up with — just like all of your other futile attempts to go deep — is that people don’t believe in the neg because they haven’t come to Revelation by your path, which is, by witnessing it at work. That is not the case at all. Your typical feminized man does not believe in the neg because he has been taught from the cradle that all “negative” comments against princesses is socially gauche, and he lacks the courage to break the moratorium himself. Even the few naturals who discovered the neg before St. Mystery Taught Us All face the pressure of going against massive convention alone. Despite witnessing it working, they feel mother-instilled guilt at being “manipulative” or “sociopathic” or just plain rude. You say, Don’t feel guilty, because it works. We (including CH) say, Here’s why you never should have felt guilty at all, independent of its utility in the field.

        That guilt is what underground forums like this site attack, because here we meet many men who attest that negs work and are nothing to feel guilty about. It is not an exclusively by-the-numbers forum on how to get laid. This forum attracts people beyond your expertise because CH has the ability to apply wisdom in the game to the broader culture. As his most recent tweet indicates:

        Deficit spending+equalist zeal+Danegeld+feminism+open borders+social safety net morality = perfect storm of American decline.

        . But what does that have to do with pick-up!

        It has plenty to do with pick-up because CH naturally, almost accidentally, extends his mastery beyond the area that taught him wisdom (game) to other realms of knowledge.

        So you talk exclusively to men who want to know what works; the rest of us talk to them, too, but we also allow for their liberation from a greater influence they weren’t aware was binding them. And that influence is applicable to much more than pick-up, despite the fact that our discussion of its broad application confuses and frustrates and irritates you. It’s not your expertise, fine. But your petty barbs about “keyboard jockeying” speak more about your limitations than ours.



      • lol

        “Nowhere in your imagination is there room for people like Heartiste himself”

        What? I like Heartiste, dipshit. I’ve said numerous times that the chateau spouts good stuff that’s congruent with PUA teachings and when it does stray its generally from a lack of understanding (such as the Horse Girl opener that brought me here).

        Or is this where you make it sound like I’m saying ridiculous easy-to-argue-with shit I didn’t actually say so you can argue with yourself for 10 paragraphs again?

        “Just because you can’t explain the source of your tricks’ power doesn’t prove that those who can lack time “in the field.””

        lol oh, I guess it is where you make shit up to argue with yourself after all. Good to see you’re keeping true to form!

        Just like most pickup concepts I can explain the FUCK out of the neg lol from a combination of the guy who invented it’s teaching, the thousands of guys who tested it out over the last 10 years’ testing/revising, and my own extensive in-field experience with it.

        If you’re going to just make shit up at least make it something that makes sense. Anyone who’s read any of my posts knows I can explain the shit out of concepts, there’s no “mysterious magic power”.

        You write so well, it’s just a shame you write such useless unhelpful bullshit lol


      • Of course you like Heartiste. That’s why you and I contribute here. You just can’t fathom how his posts on pick-up are related to, say, the “perfect storm of American decline.” And so you assume that those of us who are conversant in broader topics can’t be conversant in the narrow specialty that interests you. If it doesn’t relate to pick-up, it doesn’t relate to you. But it doesn’t appear to relate only because you either refuse or are too dull to make the connection, even when it is laid out for you in “10 paragraphs.”

        Of course you can explain a neg. You can probably explain how it works, too. But you can’t explain why it works. Which is fine, for the most part. Where you go off the rails is thinking that our ability to explain why it works is some indication of our reliance on unapplied theory over experience.

        My focus is broad. Yours is narrow — and good on you for that. That kind of minute scrutiny is important to tease out the implications of details, a necessary curiosity that I don’t share. Your constant impulse to confront me is silly and short-sighted. I am not encroaching on your little bailiwick. “The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.” Both areas of concentration have their uses.



      • “You just can’t fathom how his posts on pick-up are related to, say, the “perfect storm of American decline.””

        What you don’t get is that I fully understand it. I just don’t give a shit. If it helps you sleep at night to sit on a high horse pretending you’re a better person for caring about all of mankind, go nuts. And let us know when you change the world, I’m sure you’re right on the verge of it.

        “Of course you can explain a neg. You can probably explain how it works, too. But you can’t explain why it works.”

        lol saying it over and over doesn’t make it true. I understand the big picture very thoroughly, it’s just that your well-being is not a concern to me. I don’t go around handing out thousands of dollars to the homeless alcoholic bum on the street either. He can fix himself if he wants to.


      • @yareally
        You know he’s a troll, right? He hates on guys that are good with women because he himself sucks. He dogs field experience because he has none. Not everyone has the balls.


      • See I’m pure gold with a horse girl like opener. I make shit up like this on the fly anyway. You have to come from the perspective of that this entire conversation is surprising the shit out of you that you have met a girl like this and you are reliving it. It’s as if she’s not even a part of the conversation.

        If you are all leaning in and sounding like you are reading from a script you will fail at this.


      • P.S. I just started watching “The League” on Netflix, and right there in the second episode the “player” of the group used the word “neg” only so that the show could dramatize how sad and pathetic players are. It’s a funny enough series about men playing fantasy football as an outlet of escape from their harridan-dominated existence. But it also reveals just how far from mainstream respectability game is for people whose chief understanding of the phenomenon derives from the feather boas and goggles of Mystery lore. The only shows that use the lingo use it to ridicule the practice. Meantime, Sailer thinks the premise deserves sitcom treatment.


      • As a reforming AFC (older guy) who has benefitted from YaReally’s advice in the past, I will say that calibrating negs is hard. At this point negs are difficult for me, (still got a lot of that “gentleman” indoctrination in me).

        Negged a woman I was interested in but it was too soft, did not make much impact. Next time we met, both my timing was off and i negged too hard. She was a little pissed off. My conclusion is that I need more practice.


      • “My conclusion is that I need more practice.”

        You’ll get the hang of it eventually. I don’t remember my first neg but it was pretty weak I’m sure. Now there are times where I’ll do stuff that would just mortify most people lol stuff that goes way past negging and would be considered straight up abuse *IF* I wasn’t highly calibrated enough that I can tell when a girl knows that we’re playing a game. This results in a lot of white knightery from the sidelines where a guy is like “hey you can’t do that!!” and wants to kick my ass but then the girl grabs me and says “noooo I like him” and we run off leaving the WK behind confused as fuck because he can’t comprehend what just happened because he has no social calibration.


      • Thanks. And many thanks for the piece on calibration, above. I thought that calibration was analysis in the moment and your comment is really clear on what that means.


      • I don’t know how people even think about this stuff in the field.

        It’s good for debriefing but damn, just talk to people.


      • When I was first starting out, I negged a pair of lesbians in a pizza shop. Oh man, no calibration whatsoever, they got so pissed off and threatened to slap me and yelled at me for like 10 minutes, shit… I really couldn’t wait for my pizza to cook so I could gtfo of there, haha. I took me a long while to get a good vibe for the playful, cocky, teasing neg… but its the most powerful weapon in my arsenal when deployed decisively. And often, the most powerful neg is the one which is so outrageous, it is borderline offensive… Ah well, if you want the glory, you’ve got to risk it all.


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      when bill bennett & kay hymowitz say “man up,” what they reallys meanz is “lube up.” “Bend over–you and your future wife–and take it ike a man form our neoocn heroic tucker max rhymes with godmans sax assocking mahcinesz zzlooxozlzllz”



      Dear sirs of estimabel repute,

      I have erecenly been doing a lot of htinking and on behlaf of me and bmy bortherssz i was wondering if u could please hold back on the assocking of our future wives in secretey tapped sessions during college and stop wiring fiat dollarz to assockers for ther assocking feats, and laos please stop laoading epic unprecedednt asscocking debt on our future wifves wihile senidng forth neoconalphas to asscokc them in the buttocks and thsly deosul them zlzolzzlz. Mr. Bernanke and Mr. BEennett–dear sirs with all due repsects–you are really old like thomas jeffersons era s so your wives probably were no deosuled and assocked in college and taught in their feminist literature courses how to intinaiteate doivi divorce and transfeer a mans assetts to bernnake and his neoocn divorce regime zlzzlzllz. See, pardon my englisshsh but when a omwan is assockced in college, even if just th tipppy tip of a cock goes in da anuth, a piece of her soul is deousled and shaved off, and thus she is far more likeley to be loyal to fait dolalrs and work for the fed instad of honorainig her husband family schildren. and as broken homes are the leading cause of fucked up childrens, by assocking womenz in colle,e by da eonoens and even when it is not secretly taped teh womene ez is still deosuled, which adversley aeffects the future of our country, and as mr. bennets said with his moral compass, america is out last , best hope zlzolzzllz


      da GB4M
      p.s. pleasee support the heartistse gb4m presidential ticket in 2010, with heartiste being the predsidental candiidtae bring forth his humor, love, compaassion leader, insights, and me backing it up with my cheneyesque gravitas lzozlzlz ytahanks in advancnened!!!


    • Maybe it’s due to hungry guy willing to eat bad food than continue to stay hungry?


    • on July 10, 2012 at 2:11 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

      if u neg a lot does dat make you a negger? lzlozozo


    • “Many people” can’t grasp it because many people are socially incompetent retards with no understanding of social dynamics. And many of these social retards are precisely the people who wind up reading PUA literature. Combine this with, perhaps, some badly-written PUA literature and you’ve got yourself a situation where there’s a legion of men wandering around thinking that the way to get women to drop their panties is by walking up saying “y’know, for a fat girl, you’ve got pretty small tits”.

      The neg is an advanced-level tool which should never have been placed into the hands of beginners. It’s like handing sixteen-year-olds the keys to Formula 1 cars and expecting them to teach themselves how to drive; they’re going to crash, and then they’re going to burn to death while they try to figure out how to undo their harnesses.

      Negging isn’t even a tool as such, in my opinion. It’s just something that comes out of your mouth naturally, when you have the correct attitude.


      • “The neg is an advanced-level tool which should never have been placed into the hands of beginners.”

        Yup. Mystery wasn’t writing his original shit for the keyboard jockies or for mainstream fame. He was writing his shit for guys who went out 4+ times a week actually training their skills. Guys who were advanced and could wield it properly. Not the idiot who goes “maxim says the neg is teh ultimate weponz!!! Imma use it hey girl you are ugly as shit let’s bang!!”


    • on July 10, 2012 at 2:13 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

      hey hey ehehehetaristsess!! heartsistesS!!!

      FIREBOWPER FIREPPOERER AND KING A (KING AHOLE ELZOZOZO) r coclpmaing dat da GBFM language is an emebraessments!! dat my spelling and grammaszz are embarrassmentszz!!! lzozlzozlzo

      So, I have decided to gently place a fire poker in my butthole, and write like King A, and in Latin too!

      Here is da Latin!!!


      sic omnes murum streeteetetet nitwit proetestors

      sunt oblitus ad


      ius populo

      in neoconc warmonhgering, debitum-creans, honorem-odientes diam reserver privata numulariis qui creare moneyz
      tenuem ex omni debenti ponendo
      privatievze protssics et socialize periculo
      feminism et bellum (ut feminism est bellum)
      qui institutum
      asscocking in spiritus et in litterae cockckass in CENSEO zlzozolz
      qui oeconomus
      Tucker max rithimus sitwh Goldman sax secretive cereos de butthex (cum futura uxorem qui opus ad desoul ad eam fidelem ad fita doallr et non deus homo familia) ut mundi usus ad ens butthexed ut olim sunt butthexed per neoocn cockas vos sunt servile obedienet morietur in tehir bella
      qui institutum
      in phahameecuatical turmas qui medicamento omnia pueri
      qui funed institutum in fmeinsit motus
      ad deconstruct in magna librorum et classica in omnes campuses
      excavant eos et tollendum choro et Dantes et Shakespeare an dthe Biblia
      relinquere cum animadvertentes sed femlit classes in entitlement et welath translatio lzozlzl

      foederati resvere privata banksters

      exsequendam decem tabulis ths e communistarum Manifesto

      qui creavit
      in welath transferirng dot com bulla
      in welath transferirng dot com bulla mattis bulla matrimonium bulla collegium studnet mutuo bulla sumptu professores qui conveniunt cum fiat dolalrz et degreess donec fiat degreees tantum funcion est ut in studnet in debitum dum dumbing eos teahcing eos ad obery horrida deformis malum dsoulles Harpyia womenz zlzozl
      in welath transferirng dot com bulla

      detsorying familia


      quam in fatassed in in beltway neocon Ionas goldber Gulielmus benenetes operari lzozllzlzlzlzlzozo:

      I. deconstruct in magna librorum in univeristy campuses
      II. Vir dicam homines indigent
      III. mutum per totum scholis ratio
      IV. Vir dicam homines indigent
      V. assrape homines in repudii curia
      VI. Vir dicam homines indigent
      VII. mittere ad mori in aliena litora in aliena neoocn bella
      VIII. Vir dicam homines indigent
      IX. medicamento pueri cum ritalin / adderoll enim esse pueri
      X. Vir dicam homines indigent
      XI. robora woem ad dantis thie aholes et ginaholes mane et saepe ad douchebags
      XII. Vir dicam homines indigent
      XIII. destruere Classical, heroica moribus in eorum neocon movies, reponendarum cum asscocking gay Nubila
      XIV. Vir dicam homines indigent
      XV. procer pecuniam a aera et inflet et dlate bubbes ad capere hominis domum et bonis
      XVI. Vir dicam homines indigent
      XVII. enocurage mulieres ad adipem, whiney bitches
      XVIII. Vir dicam homines indigent
      XIX. auditum, promovere, fiscus, et oeconomicis asscokers licke Tucker max qui amet secrtive tap9ng de assockinhg sessionem sine puellae consensu, Tucker ma rithimorum cum goldam sax, repetens Tucker scriptor iacet quod est sex fet alta inthe neocon septimanis standadth.
      XX. Vir dicam homines indigent
      XXI. transofrm ecclesia ab instititution ubi coul semel ad occursum a virginalis, exaltabitur uxorem, in fronte in repudii industria, ubi una matres cum tres filii a tres asscockers ad funem in a betabmale ad pro in assocker scriptor spawn
      XXII. Vir dicam homines indigent
      XXIII. castigant, oppugnare, et impugnare homines agendi sicut
      XXIV. Vir dicam homines indigent
      XXV. reformabit nobilis, exaltabitur universitatis in seminario, regitur neocon mulieres extollens asscockers, asscokcing, et bonum grammatica, exiling et deconstructing magna libro et homines, et rewading in servile futurum nannies semel CUNARIUS statu cum fiat pupa tradidit recens ben beranke scriptor helicopter
      XXVI. Vir dicam homines indigent
      XXVII. omnem ex editae industria, ut priscialla painton Simonis et schuster Sodomam et scheister potest auditum Tucker max rithimorum iwth godlman sax scriptor fabulas in quomodo asscoked puella (somone scriptor futurum uxorem qui asscock futuris huspband in repudii coutrt ut ultionem fuisse assocked per neocns) et taped eam secrtly sine conthent lzozozlzoo. omnem homines formare editae industria et repalce altum, prodoufn realis magna libros cum crepusculum lamia asscocking feminam raptus fanasty raptus fanatsatsy “roamance” conscripserit
      XXVIII. Vir dicam homines indigent
      XXIX. cogitare centum imperium progressio ad criminalzize et opprimere eos o manu super assetts ad mulieres
      XXX. Vir dicam homines indigent
      XXXI. financially incentivizee womem ad lima enim repudii, promittens eis quod priores husdband erit pro omnibus futrue assocking sessionibus, et quod adepto haedos / domus / currus / assetts
      XXXII. dico hominum opus ad ma usque
      XXXIII. replete legem scholis cum fatm, acerbitatis, conbusit-de, bona (in spectat spiritus) post-asscoked lawyeresses, an restituo Moses et Deus lex cum bernake scriptor remi leges whichexlats furtum per inflatione tributum
      XXXIV. dico hominum opus homini usque.


      quod aalalz sum i mizssing hic:???

      sentire liberum ad addodoon ti ½! lzozlzl



      yes all the wall streeteetetet nitwit proetestors

      are forgetting to


      the right people

      the neoconc warmonhgering, debt-creating, honor-hating federal reserver private bankers who create moneyz
      out of thin air by placing everyone in debt
      privatievze protssics and socialize risk
      feminism and war (as feminism is war)
      who fund
      asscocking in spirit and in literal cockckass in assess zlzozolz
      who finance
      tucker max rhyme sitwh goldman sax secretive tapers of butthex (with your future wife who they need to desoul to make her loyal to the fita doallr and not god man family) to get the world used to being butthexed as once you are butthexed by the neoocn cockas you are more servile obedienet will die in tehir wars
      who fund
      the phahameecuatical companies who drug up all our boys
      who funed fund the fmeinsit movement
      to deconstruct the great books and classics on all our campuses
      hollow them out and get rid of homer and dante and shakespeare an dthe bible
      leave them with noting but femlit classes on entitlement and welath transfer lzozlzl

      the federal resvere private banksters

      implementing the ten planks of ths e communist manifesto

      who created
      the welath transferirng dot com bubble
      the welath transferirng dot com bubble real estate bubble marriage bubble college studnet loan bubble funding professors who agree with the fiat dolalrz and degreess until the fiat degreees only funcion is to put the studnet in debt while dumbing them down teahcing them to obery horrid ugly evil dsoulles harpy womenz zlzozl
      the welath transferirng dot com bubble

      detsorying the family


      how the fatassed in the beltway neocon jonah goldber william benenetes operate lzozllzlzlzlzlzozo:

      1. deconstruct the great books on univeristy campuses
      2. tell men they need to man up
      3. dumb down the entire schools system
      4. tell men they need to man up
      5. assrape men in divorce court
      6. tell men they need to man up
      7. send men to die on foreign shores in foreign neoocn wars
      8. tell men they need to man up
      9. drug boys with ritalin/adderoll for being boys
      10. tell men they need to man up
      11. encourage woem to giver thie aholes and ginaholes early and often to douchebags
      12. tell men they need to man up
      13. destroy the classical, heroic character in their neocon movies, replacing them with asscocking gay cowboys
      14. tell men they need to man up
      15. print money from thin air and inflate and dlate bubbes to seize a man’s home and property
      16. tell men they need to man up
      17. enocurage women to become fat, whiney bitches
      18. tell men they need to man up
      19. publish, promote, fund, and finance asscokers licke tucker max who film secrtive tap9ng of assockinhg session without the girl’s consent, tucker ma rhymes with goldam sax, repeating tucker’s lies that he is six fet tall inthe neocon weekly standadth .
      20. tell men they need to man up
      21. transofrm the church from an instititution where a man coul once go to meet a virginal, exalted wife, into a front for the divorce industry, where single mothers with three children from three asscockers go to rope in a betabmale to pay for the assocker’s spawn
      22. tell men they need to man up
      23. castigate, attack, and impugn men for acting like men
      24. tell men they need to man up
      25. transform the noble, exalted university into a nursery, ruled by neocon women exalting asscockers, asscokcing, and good grammar, exiling and deconstructing the great book and men, and rewading the servile future nannies of teh nanny state with fiat dollars delivered fresh from ben beranke’s helicopter
      26. tell men they need to man up
      27. remove all men from the publishing industry, so that priscialla painton of simon and schuster sodom and scheister can publish tucker max rhymes iwth godlman sax’s stories on how he asscoked a girl (somone’s future wife who will asscock her future huspband in divorce coutrt as revenge for having been assocked by a neocns) and taped it secrtly without her conthent lzozozlzoo. remove all men form the publishing industry and repalce deep, prodoufn real great books for men with twilight vampire asscocking female rape fanasty rape fanatsatsy “roamance” novels
      28. tell men they need to man up
      29. conceive of a hundred government programs to criminalzize men and force them o hand over their assetts to women
      30. tell men they need to man up
      31. financially incentivizee womem to file for divorce, promising them that their former husdband will have to pay for all their futrue assocking sessions, and that they get the kids/house/car/assetts
      32. tell men they need to ma up
      33. fill the law schools with fatm, embittered, burned-out, nasty (in looks an spirit) post-asscoked lawyeresses, an replace Moses’ and Zeus’s law with bernake’s banker laws whichexlats theft via the inflation tax
      34. tell men they need to man up.


      what aalalz am i mizssing here:???

      feel free to addodoon ti oit! lzozlzl


      • on July 10, 2012 at 2:16 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

        lozozzzo here is where firepowrz was lamenting my misspspleleings bad gramamarz language zlozozoz


        i will never pollroly never be able to write for teh weleekly stadadth like charloetet alenz who has very good grammszrs to hea praises on assockers sectirvee tapperszz lofof buteehhxt zlzlzzlzl


      • Vincebus Eruptum



      • on July 11, 2012 at 11:34 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

        From: http://www.savethemales.ca/001904.html

        “How the Rockefellers Re-Engineered Women

        February 1, 2007

        By Henry Makow Ph.D.

        Feminism is an excellent example of how the Rockefeller mega cartel uses the awesome power of the mass media (i.e. propaganda.) to control society.

        In 40 short years, many women have lost touch with their natural loving instincts. Consequently, the family is in disarray, sexual depravity is rampant and birth rates have plummeted.

        I will expand on the Rockefeller’s role, but first we need to remember that for a woman, love is an instinctive act of self-sacrifice.

        She gives herself to her husband and children and is fulfilled by seeing them thrive and receiving their love, respect and gratitude.

        A woman makes this supreme sacrifice to only one man who will cherish her and provide for his family. Men instinctively want to fulfill this responsibility. This is the essence of the heterosexual contract (i.e. marriage): female power in exchange for male power expressed as love. Sex is the symbol of this exclusive bond. Marriage and family may not be for everyone but it is the natural path for most.

        Feminism has trained women to reject this model as “an old fashioned, oppressive stereotype” even though it reflects their natural instincts. ”


        People do not realize that feminism is mass indoctrination because they cannot identify the perpetrator, the means or the motive.

        Recently Aaron Russo, the producer of Bette Midler’s movies and “America: From Freedom to Fascism” identified all three confirming what I have been saying.

        While trying to recruit Russo for the CFR, Nicholas Rockefeller told him that his family foundation created women’s liberation using mass media control as part of a long-term plan to enslave humanity. He admitted they want to “chip us.” Google “Rockefeller Foundation” and “Women’s Studies” and you’ll get a half million citations.
        The hidden goal of feminism is to destroy the family, which interferes with state brainwashing of the young. Side benefits include depopulation and widening the tax base. Displacing men in the role of providers also destabilizes the family.

        A drastic paradigm shift is required to make sense of the world. The Rockefellers are part of the private world central banking cartel that also controls media, defence, pharmaceutical and other cartels. To protect their monopoly of credit and wealth, they are instituting a world police state (“world government”) using the bogus 9-11 attack and endless war as a pretext. Rockefeller told Russo about this plan a year before 9-11.

        The poet Charles Peguy said, “Everything begins in faith and ends in politics.” The banking cartel needs a philosophy to justify enchaining mankind. That philosophy is Satanism. The cartel controls the world through a network of occult societies linked to Freemasonry, Communism, the Vatican and organized Jewry (Bnai Brith, ADL, AJC, Zionism.) The highest occult rank is known as the Illuminati.”




      • IF
        you get anyone
        under 35 to know wtf
        all that means I’ll buy a t shirt


    • on July 10, 2012 at 2:59 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)


      hey hey heartssites!!! dis is where i live!!! lozzololozzolo

      Lozzolo is a comune (municipality) in the Province of Vercelli in the Italian region Piedmont, located about 80 km northeast of Turin and about 35 km north of Vercelli. As of 31 December 2004, it had a population of 797 and an area of 6.7 km².[1]

      lozzolo has a poupulation of 796 womenz and on emenz known by da GBFM lozzololozzololozzololozzolo

      all da omenw da owmnez ride da cockas lotsas cockas caorulsess of da GBFM instead of getting married lozzololozzololozzololozzololozzololozzololozzololozzololozzololozzolo


  2. Read Read Read. If you don’t understand what you’re reading then you sure as fuck won’t get the concept, obviously. However, some people need things spelled out. (Ehem, why the fuck are we here?) Words Aren’t Just Words; Accept that the knowledge is beyond your level of experiance and move the fuck on so you can get there. These motherfuckers get upset easily. This shit is the way of the gods. These are’nt just tools for picking up whoore bags; they’re tools for life.


    • I stopped reading when I saw their ages.


      • Good Lord! A 27 year old bitch is too OLD for you? Ha ha ha you must really be alpha.


      • You’re right. It’s not really about their age, I’m just not interested in what women have to say.
        … especially when they’re pushing 30 and above.


      • on July 10, 2012 at 2:15 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

        lozozozzzol let’s do da math!

        27 – 16 = 11 years of sex and butthext

        3 sextettrs and 2 buththextetdters pe ryear = 55 ginabutthetxtxerzz!!!

        55 losttass cockas gizzed all over her as beenrnake da central banks commanded them too and she was likely btuutthexd in secrteeply taped by tucker max rhyeme siwth golmadn sax da dsososmite who hi is publsihed by sododom and scheistst rlzlzzozol

        so yah 27 in modern american women years = 127 in 1950s womenz yearss



      • Thats something many people don’t put into focus.

        A girl who fucks 5-10 different guys per year ends up having a notch count up to 100 by marriage.

        Does any man, alpha or not, want that?

        Being in college I see a lot of girls who only stay with a guy for 1-2 months. Then they move on. Why is that?

        Ovulation, ovulation, ovulation. College girls generally only dedicate a cycle or two to one guy, and they usually gl bored by then.

        When a new guy gets replaced every 1-3 cycles, many girls notch counts even beat players’ – they hit 50 guys even in college – hooking up with alphas and betas alike – although usually the betas sneak in when shes extremely drunk.

        My advice to other college guys – go for freshmen. Seriously. It used to be a societal joke to go for the freshmen, now it’s a NECESSITY.

        Because you know what happens when you go older? VK said it best – dick sandwich lololollllol lololollllol. One current fwb of mine is in her 20s of notches. She felt comfortable telling me because I myself am notorious for being a slut.

        Long live all te GBFM.


      • on July 10, 2012 at 2:02 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)


        if he says she is in her 20s of getting 20+ cockas den she is in her fifttiess cockas lzozozoz at least

        ’cause der was dat one night dat only da tip of his cockas went in her gina
        before she passed out
        and dat othernigt he put it in her butthole
        and made her sucketh it zlzoozzo
        and dat other night dat he came on her boobs, before eating her out
        and then sticking it in
        and dat one time
        she was watching a late night tv show
        and her roommate passed out
        and her roommates boyfirend cummed over
        and it “justahppened” zlozoz
        and dat one night on da dance floor spring break
        he sruprised her
        in the corner by
        slipping it in
        and it felt goooood lzozozozo
        well, you see, none of these count!
        well, generally this happed 25-50 times and more
        and her buttole is sore
        but she ignore’s truth door
        because it’s too painful
        to feel like a whore
        and da bernaken neoconcths
        taught her god’s judgment 2 ignore
        and to worship goldman sax
        and sxceteivre tapings of butthetx
        with tiucker machs zlzozozlzo
        as dey repalce the fmaily
        withgovernement bully


      • on July 10, 2012 at 2:03 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

        the bill of men’s rights

        lzozllzllzl every man shall have the right to

        1) a womenz who hasth been butthexed less than 4 times
        2) said 4 times not being done in the same night nor two consecutive nights niether lzozlzl
        3) said butthexing events not being secretly taped without her conthent
        4) no woman shall have a right to her husbands assetts if he comes home and finds her banging the poolboy ontop of his ps3 controller, thusly damaging said controller lzozl that would suck
        5) wehnu ask a women how many poeple she has been with it wil be law that she will have to verbally multiply her anser by 10, and then add at least half the ass cocking sesssions which still count as sexth in certain religions lzozlzlzl
        6) no man shall be made to fund a pussy that it out banging biker drummer cock, nor shall any man be made to pay for past use of a pussy lzozlzlzlz

        i think that if we can pass this men’;s bill of rights into law, 90% of marriages will last lzozl.zlzlzlzlzl lzozllz which is why the butthex congreth and fiat masters will rail against my sublime logic reason phsilophy and religion lzozlzlzzl


    • Notice the only ones worth dating (ie, not a career whore) are Helen and Rachel, possibly Jessie. And notice the manjaws immediately take over with their feminist crap mid-way through the interview.



    • I might have found it funny if it wasn’t so utterly predictable. Confidence. Ambition. Chivalry. I could have guessed their age range from the answers alone.


    • They’re all actually saying the same thing: “Have Game. Please. Really.”

      Money quote: “A date either has to be relaxed and confident, or he has to be good at faking it.”

      Second money quote: “Touching is always a good sign — for me, it’s huge. Just a little touch on the wrist, that kind of thing”

      Game. Validated.


    • on July 10, 2012 at 2:23 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

      lzozozl hey i noticed dey made some typose mispronununciations so i helpd da yahoos out!!!

      Q: OK, that man you gave your contact info to — whether online or at a party, or another place entirely — has just met you for your first official date. What’s the first thing you notice?

      Diarreah: How mature or immature he is. One guy I met didn’t even know how to butthext — as in, how to lube me out, or what to say during the butthexting. He wasn’t a butthextetr, and he seemed very young in that regard — he reminded me of my little butthetxual brother.

      Prissie: A lotsa cockas cockiness helps. If a guy maturbates too much out of nervousness or if his cock cracks, that’s a turn-off. C’mon, it’s just a date!

      Smellsme: It’s important for a man to treat people well. If he’s really disrespectful, that’s a turn-off. I once dated a guy who was impatient in restaurants and actually snapped his fingers to get service, and I fucked him in the bathroom stall.

      Hellhell: How confident he is. That really cums through outta his lotsas cockas lzlzozozo.


  3. on July 9, 2012 at 3:58 pm timtebowdancer

    I like to think of the neg as a defense mechanism against pedestalization. I can be talking to a girl and be nearly positive that I haven’t done or said anything that could be even loosely analogized as putting her up on a pedestal. But just to be extra sure, I might toss out a slight neg and then a devilish smirk. And at that point, I’m 100% sure.

    Also, generally solid post, Heartiste. More like this.


  4. The neg is an extra safety rope to make sure that there will not be a free fall into an abyss of pedestalization.


  5. This is good. I thought I had some game, I never realized just how much more I have to learn until reading this.


  6. Great post. The hypothetical example of poor pacing hit close to home. I have definitely been a little too eager in some pickup attempts, and using pickup lines and negs did not salvage them from their try-hard frame.

    Please keep up the comfort building posts. It really is the critical moment of the interaction: it doesn’t matter how much attraction you generate with the opening moments if you fail to build a connection, and once you build that connection, short of a complete meltdown, you are going to make out with the girl.


  7. At a sales training seminar I heard it described in a fishing metaphor, i.e. ‘letting out string.’ You get the hook in –some level of interest, and then let them, the sales target, pull or run away with information. The hook, or the interest is still there. In fact, it’s going deeper in because, slowly, incrementally, the fish is dragging a longer, larger load, or gathering more information. (Don’t get too hung up on the metaphor those of you with dirty minds.)

    After a while, of course, you will have to direct things and ‘reel’ them in –and if there is great resistance, maybe let out more string.

    Basically, the point being that it is a dynamic, mutual situation, where interest and capture levels have to be constantly judged.


  8. on July 9, 2012 at 4:56 pm Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)


    choosing between a ruepnblican repebiclan repubiiclan and a democrat dummycrat is basiccly like selcting etween different forms of anal lube for getting buttehxtd lzozozozo

    wheras if you vote for heartiste/GBFM 2012, you’ll be voting 2 put your cokass in da ginas!!! lzozozlzlz

    HETRTYRISTEIUES! i am thinking of chcnagingg my name form form “Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM): ” to “GBFM: DA ONE-MAN LOTSAS COCKAS CAROUSELZ(TM). WHY RIDE THE REST WHEN U CAN RIDEZ DA BEST?(TM) LOZZOZOZLZOZLZO(TMLZOZLO).


  9. on July 9, 2012 at 5:16 pm (R)Evoluzione

    Back when I was an AFC undergrad, I remember verbally vomiting every interesting thing about myself, every possibly cool fact or idea, all over an attractive blonde over beers one night.

    Nowadays, I don’t even give full or straight answers to the most basic questions about myself when talking to new women. Every answer is a riddle, an enigma, a clever retort with a shred of truth and a mist of swagger.

    It’s so much more fun this way, even if it weren’t a massively more productive way to interact with women.


    • “Every answer is a riddle, an enigma, a clever retort with a shred of truth and a mist of swagger.”



  10. Juggler’s legit. His stuff tends to be the opposite of the “college bro” style of game. Great for daygame and older men and just generally mixing into the “college bro” style around the comfort/rapport/qualifying stage.

    This is why when idiots who’ve just glanced at PUA shit try to imply I’m some 20yo Jersey Shore wannabe to discredit me it just tells me they only have a surface level understanding of actual PUA game. The Jersey Shore cocky-funny shit alone won’t get you laid or repeat business (except by certain specific personality-types of girls).

    Most advanced/pro PUAs have solid comfort/rapport/qualifying skills but unfortunately with the current “gimme a magic pill!!!” generation of noob PUAs no one is interested in buying those products. “spend 7 hours talking with the girl over coffee and eventually take her home and have sex with her” VS “go be obnoxious and loud and get head in the club bathroom!!!!” and all that.


    • “go be obnoxious and loud and get head in the club bathroom”

      LOL shit the only time I got head in a bathroom stall was because I was loud and obnoxious.
      I get the jist of what you’re saying but thanks for connecting these dots.


      • Night vs Day Game. You can pull drunken sluts for a same night lay if you are pushy, aggressive, and a little or a lot mean. It’s not hard at all if you aren’t scared. Day game is more artful and less bullyish.This has probably been discussed 10 million times already however.


      • “You can pull chicks for a same night lay if you are pushy, aggressive, and a little or a lot mean.”

        Fixed what you wrote for ya.


      • Haha. Thanks bro.


  11. The most pithy way to express this, which has to do with how cats react to a dancing string in front of them, is in Mystery’s line to Styler early in “The Game”:

    Be the dancing string.

    Once the strong stops dancing and drops to the ground, the cat loses interest and walks away.


  12. I shit you not I used the “hand model” neg on saturday and banged her that night.

    HER: I have a photoshoot in philly that weekend.
    ME: What are you a hand model or something?
    HER: What you don’t think I’m pretty enough to be a real model?

    The rest of the night I ruthlessly mocked her flip flops which transitioned into contrasting me to all the douchebag guys wearing flip flops in bars. (I love the look of epiphany in their eyes when they realize they’re with the coolest guy there.)

    Same night, outside the bar, watching some street musician’s with the model girl and two buddies, I stopped a cute girl (to boost my value to the model girl and for shiggles):

    ME: Is that a Hello Kitty playing card tattoo? How old were you when you got that 16?
    HER: Last year (blushing)
    ME: Don’t worry I won’t judge you for the tattoo, I’ll judge you for those earings.

    I forget the retarded wording, but I compared them to hoops that a dog jumps through. It sounds stupid here and even worse in person, but she was having fun and giving it back.
    Anyway, there’s your neg of the day to use and abuse. Remember to not be an aspie.

    [heartiste: good negs, solid banter, i want to see how good, solid and tight your game can get. for those who are wondering, this is similar to how gay guys sound when they’re talking to their fag hags. and you wonder why the hottest chicks have so many gay guy friends? those homos know how to TEASE.]


    • on July 10, 2012 at 1:04 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)


      her: i have a modeling job tomorrow
      GBFM: hand modeling?
      her: Noooo!
      GBFM: hand job? lzozzooozozozoz
      her: not funny
      GBFM: oh a hand job modeling sesisosnsz lzzoozzoz


    • I love the look of epiphany in their eyes when they realize they’re with the coolest guy there.

      “The Look of Epiphany” is a great turn of phrase. Poems should be written about it to get betas to understand what the goal is.

      There is no blinking, there are no micro-movements. The Look is still a casual focus, not quite a state of rapturous awe (that cums later), but it is the maximum enthrallment allowable in a public place without her complete loss of control. They do not hang on every word; in fact, the words become almost irrelevant, like the lyrics of a hypnotic tune. The expression is childlike, like a kid seeing her first rainbow.

      The result is surrender. I understand that PUAs want to focus on the score, but when the lay becomes one of many side-effects to the surrender, an entire world of options opens up to you. Going beyond the drunken trickery of coeds brings with it a calm, reducing beta anxiety and broadcasting an aloofness/serenity to which she responds with a deeper sexuality than any cocky routine or approach banter could ever achieve. You dominate with eye contact, and every defense is penetrated.

      Not that every brah should drop all the fundamentals and try to become a bug-eyed hypnotist. But journeymen should be aware that there are levels of dominance in pick up, and that they might achieve higher forms of mastery. One-note PUA.com types will scoff at this, as their audience is for recently eurekaed betas just trying to wrap their brains around all the knowledge heretofore hidden from them. Their game is quantity, and that approach is impervious against and mutually exclusive to the pursuit of quality.



      • “One-note PUA.com types will scoff at this”

        God you’re SO right. Us PUAs are fucking shallow idiots who only look at the surface and this amazingly eloquent description you gave of this phenomenon none of us have ever seen because we’re not as advanced as you just blew my mind.

        Except oh no wait, what you described is what we call “the doggy dinner bowl look” (in field reports it’s usually used like “she went DDB on me”). We started calling it that before The Game, and I can dig up Field Reports with the term that go back to 1999 and earlier.

        You are such a knob. You constantly talk about PUAs do this and PUAs think that and PUA focuses on these and you have clearly not studied more PUA teaching than glancing over The Game once lol

        Just please quit spreading misinformation about my community so you can “big-up” yourself on here. I will make you look like an idiot by calling you out on it every fucking time.


      • Oh. Your “community” had a three-letter acronym to describe it.

        I know I “look like an idiot” to those former-chumps who learned how to socialize with women from websites and seminar videos, whose every facet of human interaction must be catalogued in a nerd-manual glossary before being recognized legit. And true enough, I am not familiar with cutting-edge terminology from 1999 about stuff I learned “in the field” my freshman year of fucking high school.

        If you ceased your obsessive crusade to recruit all men to the church of Real Social Dynamics, you might notice that I described the phenomenon so that I could place it at a higher priority (total surrender) than your PUA.com puppetmasters allow you the latitude to accept. I promote it as an end-in-itself; you can only recognize it as one more tool to get already easy pussy. That’s exactly what I predicted sub-PUA blowhards like you would “scoff at,” and whattaya know, you obeyed obediently. Not unlike a “doggy” called to his “dish.”

        Do “dig up” those decade-old “Field Reports” for me, doggy, to prove your original discovery of what is, in fact, an immemorial sexual observation. The evolution of your obsessive insecurities would be a fascinating case study.

        And no, I have never cracked open The Game. I did however read his investigation into “your” “community,” back when STYLE was known more humbly as Neil Strauss, reporter. Neither his late-life conversion nor yours impresses me. I didn’t need to compare notes and codewords with outcasts who were isolated from normal, masculine rites of passage until adulthood.

        No matter how many times you fantasize about “calling out” the guy you resented in high school and making him “look like an idiot” years later, you can’t go back to be the dashing Senior Prom King with too many dates. You can only try ever more feverishly to compensate for those formative years that still haunt you. I understand your resentment toward people like me, who see right through your frantic playacting. But I can’t quite relate to its intensity.



      • bla bla bla lol

        Allow me to summarize your post: “I admit I haven’t done any real research or have any real understanding of PUA concepts and what they teach but I will continue to make broad generalizations in my posts about what PUAs think and what they teach.”

        At least you’re aware you’re full of shit, prom king lol


      • I allow you to summarize. That’s how simple people cope with a complex world. By reducing everything they can’t digest to baby food. lol lol lol … you giddy retard.

        It surprises me that you haven’t found an Owen Cook video to post, to speak your opinion for you. I prefer the moldy pablum straight from him, rather than puked up by the even more clownish sycophants of a Canadian clown.

        Get on that, would you? “Tyler” must have shot ten minutes of YouTube-posted seminar footage on how to deal with party crashers like me. D some HV, chucklehead. ASAP, AMOG. PDQ. lol lol lol

        Or are you in the habit of declaring how accomplished you are — even as you fail to demonstrate any ability to handle heckling beyond a few forced giggles and too-loud guffaws, the telltale reactions of a dork? Whatever the conquest of a couple easy-sleazy-diseasey tramps does to inflate your ego, you are a sad little beta before men. “The Cube” doesn’t work on the sex that possesses judgment.

        What would “Tyler” think of your fail? Just as his balding mullet-wisdom impresses lonelyhearts and strivers like you, you impress a still more pathetic bunch, the abjectly dysfunctional, itchy-dicked omegas who are enraptured by your reflection of a reflection of fake glory.

        lol lol lol


      • tl;dr lol


  13. ive been reading this blog since it started so would appreciate some advice on my current dilemma.

    me: 33 year old. a solid 7.

    her: 22 year old, a 7. she is insecure, neurotic..

    we have been in a ltr of sorts for 6 months, except i havent committed to her.
    i have made it explicit we are not bf/gf and that we are letting things ride.
    we have great chemistry, good sex, see each other about twice a week.

    a couple months ago my ex came back into my life. we have been texting back and forth and we are planning on going on a camping trip in a couple weeks.
    my ex is a very serious possibility for the future which i wont go into.

    my current girl saw the texts. says she doesnt want into a relationship with me. said “now i know why you wont commit to me and why i am insecure all the time when it comes to you”. i displayed strong emotions, grabbed her told her i loved her and that she was precious to me and that i wasnt going to let her go that easily. i then left her apartment.

    i didnt come off as needy or desperate. i have hand in this relationship. my girl knows this and has said so many times. she is constantly insecure about the status of our relationship. its true, i am not all there with her because i am seeing what develops between me and my ex.

    i want to keep her. whats my next move ? i am thinking radio silence for a week, then maybe drop a letter off with a very short missive.


    • Okay, warning, I’m an rAFC, but as a loyal reader of this blog, my opinion:

      You don’t have hand in your relationship. Your ex does.

      Yeah…you won’t go into your ex being a “serious possibility”…wonder why? This is pretty much a cliche at this point. Forget your ex. And reject this girl. Has she always been nothing but a pawn for you to get back with your ex? Be honest now. Well…sometimes such honesty takes time.


  14. Two recent negs on a 19 + 22 year old church girls. Wow those are really nice shoes! [Thanks!] My mom has some just like them! [They are comfortable.] (Qualifying) Also negged her friend about an article of clothing telling her that if she hangs with her too long she’ll look just like her friend. (Isolation. You have to break up those gaggles.) The girl is by far the prettiest one there a solid little 8. She sits next to me the entire activity like I’m her man.

    You still learning how to walk in those shoes? [No I’ve had these blah blah]
    I see you have a bandage on your heal. [Explains the reason because of a blister but I don’t hear her my back is turned.] (Qualifiying)

    Funny was that I walked right up to her when she was talking to her boyfriend. I greeted him then turn halfway around and negged her. He was pissed, but she eyed me the entire church service and look flustered around me. Totally inapporpriate.

    If you don’t directly face a girl and look a bit distracted sometimes that is a neg in and of itself.


  15. Had an “Ah-ha” moment last week with negs and inner game.

    First date with an online prospect at a low-key but semi-well-known bar/restaurant in her neighborhood. She was late (‘natch) and I’d already finished my first drink at the bar and made friends with the bartender. She’s apologetic, blaming a sprained toe, but quite attractive, so I make a comment about getting her a mobility-scooter. We get a fresh round, staying at the bar, and I make sure I’m sitting three-quarters turned toward her. Chit-chat ensues.

    I only realized later that the neg was completely unconscious, just a natural response:

    Her: You’re actually much more attractive than your photos [true that; need to update them]

    Me: Thanks. I thought your hair would be redder.

    Her: Oh, well, yeah, it’s pretty flaming red in that photo, isn’t it? There were some others where it was darker, and it gets more red in the summer when I’ve been out in the sun, etc. etc. [she went on for a while like this]

    Fifteen minutes later, she’s turned facing me, I have my leg between hers, foot perched on a rung of her bar stool, lots of touching [a part of Game that I’ve had trouble with, but not this night], teasing back and forth, etc.

    An hour and a half later, we were making out like teenagers on the roof deck of her building overlooking the Hudson, ending with a finger-bang.

    She’s making me dinner at her place tomorrow.

    But in the cab on the way home, I realized that it was the neg about her hair that changed the tenor of the interaction. After working on myself and my Game for the last 18 months, it’s good to know that it’s finally really sinking in and becoming more of just a natural part of who I am.


    • on July 9, 2012 at 8:41 pm ImmoralGables

      Nice work brother keep it up. I doubt you at 18 months ago would of had the balls to push for the make out on the roof.


      • I would have always gone for the make-out. But the finger-bang in a public place–there were other people up there, though it was very dim lighting–that was a different thing. Had to stop because while she was really into it, it scared her a bit. Didn’t want to spook the kitty.

        I’ve always been pretty good at escalating once the making out starts, but to get to that point, I’ve had to re-learn, post-divorce, what I once knew in my 20s but never really knew that I knew. All in a very different environment.

        Seeing it all laid out here and other sites blew my mind at first. But thinking about it, I realized I’d gradually lost whatever latent “alpha” tendencies I’d had to massive beta tendencies during years of marriage. I can’t claim to have ever been a real alpha, though I had several natural alpha friends. More like a classic greater beta that I slowly lost.

        But, finally unplugged from the feminist matrix, it’s getting better day by day. Life is good.


      • Some months ago I did a similar thing in my favourite bar, finger banged her to orgasm (she bit my shoulder to avoid shouting) on a couch while some hipsters and two bartenders looked at us astonished. It was an amazing relationship, sex was mindblowing. Later we broke up, but she will always remember that ballsy move.


      • lol I fingered a chick leaning on a table (doggy-style, reached up under her skirt from behind) while her sister and GFs were talking to my friends and us while leaning on the other side of the table lol my buddies had no idea either and when I told them what was going on after they were like “I wondered why she was just standing there with a stupid grin on her face!!” lol

        I fucked up though, the bar had private bathrooms I could’ve snuck her away to to finish up but I was laughing so hard in my head at the situation and the potential chaos that I didn’t even think of it till after they had left lol this was all within 30 min of meeting them and the girl approached me so it was easy to escalate the situ fast so I’m posting this more as a “keep up what you guys are doing, you can do crazier shit than you even imagine right now :)” encouragement rather than bragging cause all I did was escalate on iois and position us optimally. Fast escalation is my main forte


      • “I realized I’d gradually lost whatever latent “alpha” tendencies I’d had to massive beta tendencies during years of marriage.”

        Yeah, that shit can sneak up on you if you don’t stay alert. Awareness is key. You’ve got to always be closing.

        Me, I run crazy game on girls whenever my wife and I go out. I’ve had her literally pulling me away from girls who’re inviting me to afterparties, and she’s always wearing a big smile on her face when she does it. The desired effect is achieved: demonstration of high SMV to wifey. Mission accomplished.


  16. on July 9, 2012 at 9:41 pm Professor D

    Just stumbled across this via a link at Taki. Good stuff. Anyway, more silly stuff here: http://www.yourtango.com/2012155676/changing-reality-gender-roles


  17. The dailyhamster strikes again:


    “But it’s taken us more than 20 years to meet properly. And, if I’m honest, I wasn’t completely convinced at first. I’d grown so used to semi-detached relationships that it took a while to accept someone who is properly nice.”


    • Also note how it took some serious social proof for this woman to get interested:

      “While I was trapped signing books, there was no shortage of other glamorous single women keen to meet him. Friends emailed the next day saying: ‘Who is that lovely man?’
      Better pay closer attention, I resolved.”


    • The photographer of that first picture deserves… whatever award photographers get. “Hey,” I thought, “she’s not bad at all for a 48-year-old!”

      Then you go down to the second picture and realise that the reason she has her hands on her face in the first one isn’t just a “look wistful” pose; it’s to keep her face from collapsing. Also, to cover her neck.

      Also her new boyfriend is as gay as eight guys blowing nine guys. I don’t blame him for wanting to settle down into a nice non-sexual relationship with a decent housekeeper though.


  18. I support Hartiste for president and gbfm for vice-president.

    All the other PUAs and presidential candidates can go fuck themselves.


    • on July 10, 2012 at 1:02 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)


      das right day can go buttfufkc themselves and tape it secrtrely like tucker max trheyems with godldman sax lzlzzllzlzoz


      “HEARTISTE & GB4M 2012 lolzozlz YOU CAN B

      heartiste is WILLIAM WALLACEEEDCC!!!!!


      (in the later part of the video u can see neoeoconth publisher trying to buttock da heartsiste zlzozlzozozl when da gbfm saves the he artistes texts form being buttuffuckkekekd zlzlzozozlzo)


  19. “Elise” is a girls name without hope of recall. In sober fact, it is a young girls name.
    When B Gates and his buddies were looking for a killler brand name for their enterprize, they came up with”Micro Soft, ”
    The corrected translation by rights (in English) ought to have been, considering their intent, Gigantic- Rock Hard FuckTool .
    This gets personal for me because one of my favorite toys is my Lotus Elise. It is girl-like in many respects. It is tight to get into and feels warm,very warm indeed once you push hard enough. to get where you need to be.
    Then she puts up track times that burn down whole trailer loads of corvettes & vipers, etc.
    A girl that can do that is worth keeping.


  20. […] How To Approach A Girl – Basic Principles Of A Day GameWayne Elise, Pacing, And Conversational Context […]


  21. Babble


  22. A welcome return to the old fire and flame


  23. Always love the articles on negs, very interesting shit to read and learn from. Being young myself (19) I find that negging girls my age really ups the value towards my end. Although i find myself naturally using them on higher-value girls sometimes having to stop myself from putting them on the pedestal , i dont need to use them on lesser girls because they know that my attraction for them is low.. it way benefits me when i throw out a light bait compliment.


  24. “Assuming the sale” is probably the big way to get anywhere – men and women accept/reject someone as a potential partner in less than a second. In other words, you have to be/seem Alpha as soon as she sees you. If you walk in and look like a geek then probably nothing you’ll say will interest her.


  25. This video supports this original post. Note the try hard vs Hitch who comes in smooth. There’s also that shit-test….that he blows off suggesting he could live without her…


  26. Note how Hitch dismisses her shit test….


  27. OT (is it ever though):


    WN femcunt hamstery.


  28. The girl in the “NOOB” dialogue seems worth talking to. Probably fictitious, then.


  29. Heartiste.

    You can’t deny it though, can you ?

    In the Manosphere there is a phenomenon as unassailable as a Law of Medes and Persians :

    That any PUA is an MRA, but an MRA is not necessarily a PUA … and there are so many MRA’s … and they are setting the Terms Of Debate … which means the focus is on the relationship …

    … and all the problems relating to the relationship … and why it’s not worth it to pursue a relationship … and all the justifications for this … and all the justified invectives for abstinence …

    … so that in order for men not to get fucked … they shouldn’t fuck at all …

    And here you are giving good advice on how men should start fucking again … ha … the comment thread will warp this idea …

    Sad really.


  30. how do you expect femcunts and blue pillers to understand negs when even ‘red pillers’ dont? look at the comments in this thread, a bunch of guys bragging about the “awesome negs” they have used. if you are that focused on finding the perfect neg you are going to be too invested in her reaction so it will come off as insecure and approval seeking.

    good negs are the tiny little zings that neither of you really even notice as they are happening but at the end of the convo she is thinking ‘wow, he is really judgemental. he must have ridiculously high standards for women. hot girls must throw themselves at him. swoon. i need to hit the gym more and get implants.”

    i love it when girls bring up “negs” that made their hamster spin on overdrive since the last time i saw them, that i didnt even realize i had said.


    • This this this.

      Some of the negs only keep you around as the entertaining monkey. There’s no hamster spinning in that.


    • Yep, this is an important point.

      When negging was a new concept we had routines for it but it wasn’t the routines themselves that made it work, it was what they suggested about the overall status/psyche of the man saying them. We didn’t have a wide enough scope to grasp this back then but the PUA community understands this now.

      But, to cut people some slack, the “show a girl you aren’t impressed by her like every other guy” concept is fucking mind-blowing to newbies learning about the matrix. It’s such a crazy backwards concept that they need a lot of examples of it in action to really grasp the idea.

      As a newbie, what you should be doing is taking all of the negs you read about and are interested in and ignore the words…look at the structure and the bigger overall picture, what are the overall consistent similarities across the board? This is what separates the pro PUAs from the dabblers…Mystery, Style, Tyler, they were guys who were looking for the deeper spiderweb connections in the surface level stuff their followers were happy regurgitating, that’s why they did so much ground-breaking stuff for game.


  31. The reason why PUAs get all the criticism they do, is due to the fact that PUAs spend every other sentence insulting everyone who isn’t a pua, or ego tripping about how awesome they are compared to all those “betas” and “losers” out there.
    In almost every blog or forum I read, PUAs spend and inordinate amount of time calling married men “betas” or “losers”. They call men who don’t game losers, or just pussies. There is also this ridiculous need to label everyone a beta and preen on and on about how alpha they are.
    Imagine- people getting rubbed the wrong way when they are being insulted. As a natural consequence many men either turn off the whole thing, or those still in it- guys like me who enjoy game- spend an inordinate amount of time trying to bring everyone back down to earth. PUAs should welcome the criticism, because it makes Game adapt and grow.
    The Neg is a perfect example. When the idea first came out, it was all about taking advantage of every womens insecurities. I remember reading how Negs were deliberately a way to be a little insulting to women so as to lower her value and make her more insecure. Over time, after much criticism, the Neg has evolved to what is described here- a way to tease and have fun, a way to show you are comfortable with yourself and not needy. But lets be honest, thaqt is not how it was described and practiced early on, The concept has evolved- and it is all the better for it.
    I have seen Game proclaimed to be answer to everything from mens rights to fucking hair loss. It may help to step down from the high horse a bit, and be a little less self aggrandizing.


    • Exactly.

      And thus the PUA business becomes a pony show where millions more betas than any of us comprehend buy into the “was this alpha?” effect. All the while PUAs blow smoke out their ass, with fame and sniveling beta followers actually being the reason they get laid.

      Caring vs Uncaring asshole game speaks wonders towards this. Some guys will always be caring and there’s nothing they can do about it. Thus they should find a different approach.

      I overheard a student(read: nerd) talking about how they “negged” a volleyball chick at my school. By her description, I knew it was a girl one of my baseball buddies was railing.

      Most of the “art” to pickup artistry is just that – relying on thousands of followers to build your social proof so you can attain hotter an hotter girls with your following.

      Betas should take this in consideration, and work on inner game.

      The way I see it…… Experience + inner game = becoming a “natural” as some in the game-sphere call it

      While experience + smoke and mirrors = lay count builds but you get no harem out of it.

      What would you rather have? A following of men who social proof you to more lays with hotter girls, OR a following of women you attained by building your skills?

      I still have 5s and 6s texting me from 2-3 years back between new boyfriends, back when I was too afraid to approach anything hotter.

      Not to drop too much hate on the PUA’s, but when I first read that stuff 4 yrs ago none of the girls I got with have an inkling of a desire to hit me up now.

      Just my .02. Develop that irrational self confidence, pick up a sexy hobby, and watch the harem build.


    • “I remember reading how Negs were deliberately a way to be a little insulting to women so as to lower her value and make her more insecure.”

      Then you remember wrong:


      That’s from 1999. Relevant shit:

      “***A NEG HIT is a qualifier.*** The girl is FAILING to meet your high expectations. It’s not an insult, just a judgement call on your part. The better looking the girl, the more aggressive you must be with using neg hits. A 10 can get 3 neg hits up front, while an 8 only 1 or 2 over a longer time. You CAN go overboard if they think you are BETTER than them You can drop the self-esteem right from under them (just like most 10s do to guys) and this isn’t good. You have to get as close to the breaking point as you can without crossing the line. Once you have gotten her RIGHT THERE, you can start appreciating things about her (NEVER LOOKS). There is a mutual RESPECT now. Something most guys never get from the girl.”

      It was never about insulting her, it was always about qualification. Yes the result was it tripped a glitch in her self-esteem but that self-esteem was based on a retarded value system (“everyone wants to fuck meeeee”) to begin with. He warns AGAINST dropping their self-esteem out from under them and advises not to use negs on average girls and he explains the difference between a neg and an insult and explains the type of girl and psyche that negs are meant for.

      These guys were hitting on rich socialite 10s in posh LA nightclubs, not the chick in sneakers at your local pub, when they were talking about advanced stuff like this.

      “They call men who don’t game losers, or just pussies.”

      Can’t speak for other PUAs but a pet peeve of mine is people who misrepresent our teaching either due to ill intentions (King A) or lack of understanding/research (lots of people, especially the anti-gamer and MRA and game dabbler types).

      We’re only arrogant because we know our shit. When a guy who’s been married for 10 years and hasn’t laid a hot chick off a cold approach in years spouts off how things “really” work it’s like no, shut up, you are just mentally masturbating and there are newbies who won’t understand that you’re full of shit and you will lead them off course from fixing their dating lives lol


      • “We’re only arrogant because we know our shit.”-YaReally
        In my life as a musician I have met and played with some of the worlds most accomplished musicians ever. Literally, some names you’ve probably heard of. To a one, and I can not think of one exception, they have all been some of the least arrogant and humblest, beautiful human beings I have ever met.
        The same applies to many of the doctors I work with in my “day job”. The best doctors, the ones everyone goes to for answers and when the shit hits the fan, are the ones for whom the word arrogance would never apply. Confident, in control, secure..yes. Arrogant? No
        The claim that arrogance is a result of “knowing your shit” is something that can only fly with someone with no experience with people who truly “know their shit”. Arrogance is, and always will be, the sign of a poser, a wanna be an insecure pretender. Always.
        And people sense this…


      • I am 100% not concerned with Internet people thinking I’m arrogant. I’m not here to sugarcoat everything so the newbie who keeps making excuses to stay in and read this website instead of going out and interacting with the real world can feel good about himself and be coddled. I also don’t care if he ignores what I say because I’m not stroking his self-esteem cock as I say it cause quite frankly I can only think of maybe 5 guys max in this comment section who I can tell are actually trying to work on themselves. The rest are just happy mentally masturbating.

        I’m just presenting how shit works to counter the Jockey Theory in here.


    • Centaur wrote:

      The reason why PUAs get all the criticism they do, is due to the fact that PUAs spend every other sentence insulting everyone who isn’t a pua, or ego tripping about how awesome they are compared to all those “betas” and “losers” out there.

      You put your finger on it. It’s playground taunting that most of us grow out of — once we realize that attitude is the most reliable tell of the insecure man. Arrogance works on women but it drives away men.

      But don’t take my word for it. Take Heartiste’s:


      The confident man is not arrogant. He draws women and leads other men by the same mechanism, and so he doesn’t have to hyperfocus on the specific traits that work exclusively on girls to compensate for his general social deficiency.

      This is why the original definition of “alpha” as “leader of the pack” (rather than notch-whore) must be rejected by pretenders to the throne. This is why naturals appear to have no conscious technique. The leader and the natural don’t have to scrutinize technique so hard to successfully inspire women or men; their example does all the work for them. Therefore they don’t have to demonize critics who have alternative approaches.

      The self-made PUA emphasizes method over essence because essence did not help in his rise to success with women. He appears laid-back, but this is a hard-won pose. His life is a constant analysis of the hundred ways he is successfully applying method or accidentally deviating from it. Is my drink at my waist? Is my smile cocky enough, or is it goofy? How did I blow that last approach? It is an outside-in approach, rather than inside-out. An attention to superficialities and appearance — paint job and wax — above than the maintenance of core performance — engine and fuel. While PUA checklists eventually mature into a seamless, instinctive posture, at the bottom of the artifice is a perpetual question mark, not an exclamation point. So they have a savant-like answer for every specific situation, even while a discussion of essence baffles (and even threatens) them.

      When you are confident, criticisms do not appear as threats to be answered in-kind. They are opportunities for improvement, no matter how much you think you know. Arrogance brings know-it-all syndrome, and that freezes you in place. If you already know it all, then disagreement can only be ad hominem — a threat to your delicately poised impression of yourself that must be disavowed as “beta” or “loser.” Why else react so viciously to such harmless specimens of man? A beta doesn’t need to be ridiculed. Who can be bothered? He needs to be pitied.

      Great comment.



  32. heartiste:
    The difference between a sour grapes disqualification and a cool-as-fuck disqualification is timing. When you’re chasing — when you’re on the losing end of a pickup attempt

    This is one of your best (recent) Game posts.

    Juggler has (and tenmagnet) a credible link to the original founders.

    With their vacating the stage, not much remains worth spending the time on reading.

    Noobs just can’t perceive (in our endlessly talky internet world)
    that Mystery, DD, TD and Style DID write The Book and 98% of ALL you need to know is written there. They ARE the last word – esp Mystery and Style.

    As a side note, I can’t recall the names of the strip-club bouncer who looked like Wolverine and his hippie-looking partner; each had various nom de plumes in Style’s tome. That pair were Masters of presenting themselves. I remember Style was highly impressed by them.


    • “Noobs just can’t perceive (in our endlessly talky internet world) that Mystery, DD, TD and Style DID write The Book and 98% of ALL you need to know is written there. They ARE the last word – esp Mystery and Style.”

      Yup. That’s why the manosphere was so intriguing to me. Like take this Juggler post. This concept of not giving it all away was PUA standard knowledge loooong before The Game was published. This is an old as fuck idea but it’s being presented as if it’s new and a ton of guys are like “wow this is genius!! I never thought of this!!”

      But if they went and read the old school books and the Fast Seduction archives of the top PUAs they’d find thousands and thousands of posts and descriptions and breakdowns of all of this stuff.

      Modern PUA does expand on the old school concepts. Tyler Durden’s “The Blueprint” is the best example of this but RSD in general has done a great job of zooming out the scope for the bigger picture and mixing self-help and inner-game in there.

      But the oldschool Mystery Method is still 100% as solid as it was back in the day.

      Again this comes from PUA not being based in “theory”. It’s based in practice and experience. If Mystery found that Negs don’t work or Juggler found that it was better to tell all about yourself right away, that’s what the PUA teachings would reflect. All we care about is what consistently works in real life.


      • I’d also go further and give Tom Leykis much of the credit, likely inspiring (and encouraging) Mystery’s concept of the “neg” as valid, counter-intuitive seduction strategy.


  33. hearrtiste:
    The difference between a sour grapes disqualification and a cool-as-fuck disqualification is timing. When you’re chasing — when you’re on the losing end of a pickup attempt

    This is one of your best (recent) Game posts.

    Juggler has (and tenmagnet) a credible link to the original founders.

    With their vacating the stage, not much remains worth spending the time on reading.

    Noobs just can’t perceive (in our endlessly talky internet world)
    that Mystery, DD, TD and Style DID write The Book and 98% of ALL you need to know is written there. They ARE the last word – esp Mystery and Style.

    As a side note, I can’t recall the names of the strip-club bouncer who looked like Wolverine and his hippie-looking partner; each had various nom de plumes in Style’s tome. That pair were Masters of presenting themselves. I remember Style was highly impressed by them


  34. All great philosophies and theories of the mind throughout history have had their old guard detractors who latched onto digestible concepts that offered possibilities of being distilled into simplistic caricatures and thus made meaningless outside of their philosophical and practical context. To this day, the neg continues to be mistakenly thought of as a brazen insult by the prestige press and their manboobed and feminist lackeys, and there seems to be no let-up to their determination to remain unschooled hicks in matters of seduction.

    You summarize why game should be taught as an art rather than a science. That sounds like a quibble, but it’s not.

    Women do not universally react to the neg the way postassium reacts to H2O. The woman’s attitude, environment, and the woman herself are widely variable; the negger’s approach, delivery, and sensitivity are variable too.

    There can be no formula that always produces consistent and repeatable results (which is the definition of science), therefore one must develop an aura of spontaneity that can only be achieved on an individual level of artistry. There are no game manuals. There are only anecdotes, metaphors, examples, and general guidelines. A mentor is worth a thousand written commandments.



  35. Thanks Heartiste. I’ve been reading Day Bang, and this post really resonates with the material in that book. Your comment on pacing really gets to the heart of why most of the “criticisms” of negs are flawed.

    I do have a question though. On seddit (the seduction area on reddit) they are telling people that negs are obsolete, and have been replaced with disqualifiers. It makes sense, as every neg acts as a disqualifier, but not every disqualifier is a neg. Or is there something more to it? I know the terms aren’t going away, but if you could start over, would you still have a word for “negs”, or could it all be subsumed under “disqualifier”?


  36. Does anybody know what happened to onestdv? Google says now you have to be invited to get in.

    If anybody knows please answer on :



    – Arturo


  37. […] Heartiste – Wayne Elsie, Pacing, and Conversational Context, Questioning The Meritocracy, Universal Logo Of The Feminized Male, What To Do If A Girl Calls You […]


  38. […] Heartiste – Wayne Elsie, Pacing, and Conversational Context, Questioning The Meritocracy, Universal Logo Of The Feminized Male, What To Do If A Girl Calls You […]