Double-Dipping Alimony Whores

We here at CH don’t just knock women off their princess pedestals (or knock men out from under them), we grind the pedestal into dust and toss the ashes into the Pacific breeze. But even our yeoman efforts occasionally struggle to adequately express the depraved depths of unrestricted female nature. Apropos, a reader writes:

Hi. I ran across your blog through a Google search. It looks very interesting and I am for sure going to read more later tonight after work. I was wondering if you had any advice for second wives that are married to nice guys that are paying alimony to an ex-wife that might have gotten secretly remarried to their elderly boyfriend? I’m sorry that sentence is so complicated.

Me: Wife #2

Me thinks: Wife #1 secretly remarried and is “double-dipping.”

Wife #1’s boyfriend: considerably older than her and has no heirs

She has tried to financially double-dip in the past, has a history of lying, there’s no nation-wide search we can run to check this out, and besides just having to pay back the money, there’s no downside like jail time or punitive fines for secretly remarrying and continuing to collect alimony from Husband #1.

Any suggestions would be super helpful!

Alimony double-dipping by ex-wives is real, and since it affects the resource pool of women hitched to the victimized ex-husbands, dumbshit man-haters can’t go around calling those men “whiners” without also incriminating their newly beloved women for the same illusory crime against status preening. Thus, we hear SILENCE TOTAL from the feminist kunt kollective on this matter of alimony double-dipping, which undoubtedly occurs with greater frequency than official tallies claim. Speaking of official tallies… where the hell are they? Is this mass buttfucking of betaboy cogs just one of those crimes that no one in power gives a rat’s ass about to even bother writing a report?

Double-dipping alimony whores are nearly the worst of the hypergamous worst. Second only to knowing cuckolders who try to foist alpha issue on unsuspecting beta providers. Think about the utter degradation, the abject humiliation, these craven harlots visit upon their ex-betas:

1. Coerces alimony payments from beta ex freed from any sex obligation in return.

2. Shacks up with new alpha lover and uses ex-beta’s coerced payments to buy sexy lingerie as demanded by alpha.

3. Refrains from reporting relationship. Gets to enjoy continued flow of resources from both new alpha lover and estranged beta ex.

4. Beta ex’s money now going to buy not only ex-wife’s pre-coituswear, but her alpha lover’s cock rings.

5. Cackles to herself how easy it is to keep kids away from schlubby beta ex.

6. Impoverishes beta ex and kneecaps his ability to find and keep a new woman to give him love.

What I just described above is the legal equivalent of getting a meth-addled ferret shoved up your ass, pulled out, and then shoved into your mouth to lick it clean. I believe the Latinate term is AF2MF, Ass-Ferret-to-Mouth-Ferret.

What man in his right mind would go to war for such a system?

Having never gotten myself entangled in the vulgarities of the divorce-industrial complex, all I can tell you, dear reader, is to find whatever shred of evidence that you can of your husband’s ex-wife’s remarriage and present it to a family court. This may mean coaxing your husband to wheedle any kids he may have to cough up the goods on their mother. Surprisingly, despite years of mommy poisoning the well, many children can see through her machinations and retain affection and loyalty to their father. But channels of communication will have to be open for this strategy to work.

In the meantime, you should do your best to ostracize any female or manboob acquaintances who parrot feminist lies in your presence. It’s a small act of rebellion, but big revolutions are seeded with the polite vengeances of individuals.





Comments


  1. Amen. Most egregious example I’ve seen is my bro-in-laws ex, who openly lives with her boyfriend (but since they’re not married, she still gets to collect alimony…), getting a load of bucks from both places….

    Like


    • on December 14, 2012 at 10:37 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

      hey heartistestst!! good newss!!! you don’t have to particicpatez in the hookup culture!! you don’t have to uccumb to peer pressuree!!!

      instead of hooking up with chix, you can wait until they turn 30 and then pay for what eveyroeen elese got for free when it was younger hotter tithter and fifty pounds ligterssz!! and den when she goes vack to the bucttccoking buttcocckcicerz who she is stsill friends with on facebook, who taped it sctrley and got large book dealsz, when wh she goes back to the buttcockers, and you get mad, she can divroce you and take alf of eeevything after being buttocck3d, she can buttcocked you!!! lzozzlolzzzlzozozo

      but hearatsiets this si nothingto be asheamed uof, you can leave the hookup cuclture and tsop hooking up, man up like willima beennet said, and mary the heavy, std-laened, deosuoed, haarard, buttcocked sluuty slsslutzttz lstutztz zlozozzlzozoz

      Like


    • Many single women, a key bloc, are avoiding GOP
      By NICHOLAS RICCARDI
      Associated Press
      December 15, 2012

      There was just no way I could have supported any Republican this year,” said Stevenson, 31. “They skew so much to the religious right… They focused so much on taxes. It’s not something that women in my demographic really care abou. I’ve never heard my friends lament their taxes.”

      Uhh, yeah, we’re focussed so much on taxes because we’re the ones paying for your WIC, your AFDC, your bastards’ SSDI, your Section 8, your EITC, your bastards’ gubmint schools, your bastards’ subsidized school lunches, your Obamaphone, your salary as a useless gubmint social worker or librarian or whatever, etc etc etc.

      Oh, and did I mention, YOUR ALIMONY?!?

      Like


      • OMG:

        Newtown, Conn. shooting: Sandy Hook elementary school gunman Adam Lanza learned to shoot from his gun-collecting mom
        NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
        Saturday, December 15, 2012, 11:42 AM

        …Lanza’s dad, Peter, a successful financial services expert, was divorced from his mother. But it was the dad, who reportedly took the divorce hard. And he made sure his ex, and his kids, were well provided for.

        Peter Lanza was paying his ex annual alimony payments that started at $240,000 and would have reached $298,800 in 2015. He left her the family home before he decamped for Stamford…

        In other words, the beta was paying $20,000 a month to the ex so that she could turn the younger son into a Glock-wielding pyscho-nihilistic mass-murderer.

        BTW, the older brother, Ryan, claims that he hadn’t had any contact with the younger brother in almost 2 years.

        What a fucked-up “family”.

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      • I am sure there will be much more that comes out on this story. These events don’t just erupt out of nowhere; they only appear that way. Every life is built on millions of interactions with others. In likely several places the chain was broken here. Bottom line: we need to take better care of each other.

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  2. Find a good pro-father family lawyer (aka avoid most women lawyers, the majority of family practitioners) and start issuing subpoenas and hiring private eyes.

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    • This.

      It should be noted that within the last decade or two a number of states have passed laws providing for the modification or termination of alimony if the ex is merely cohabiting, not necessarily remarried. The idea being that alimony is (supposedly, in theory) about supporting a financially-dependent ex, not phat lewt in perpetuity.

      Of course these laws are administered in biased fashion, but they’re there, and they might provide an avenue for getting out from under the alimony.

      Like


    • Any idea on how to identify a pro-father lawyer?

      On topic: The fact alimony exists at all shows just how deep the matrix is.

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      • “Find a good pro-father family lawyer.”

        I have some advice on this.

        Recently I shopped family lawyers to do a prenup. My big takeaway was that lawyers are very much subject to ideological bias. They will prioritize those biases over your interests, even if you are their client and are paying them. Surprising at first, but after I thought about it not surprising at all.

        I live overseas and was visiting my folks in my home state. The woman lawyer I met omitted several salient facts about state law. The first thing the man lawyer said was “This state is one of the most unfriendly in the union to the higher-income party.” Then he said flatly “You don’t want your fiancee represented by a [this state] lawyer. If you’re able to avoid it don’t get a prenup in this state.” I followed his advice.

        Lawyers vary widely in experience and ability. Always hire a specialist when hiring a lawyer (or doctor). Ask your friends, particularly those who have been divorced, about family lawyers. Check their websites — sometimes they way they write about their services will reveal their ideology. One female family lawyer website said “We strive for fair outcomes that are in the best interests of our clients and the children involved.” A statement like that screams that the lawyer will put her own ideas of “fair” and her own ideas of “what’s best for the children” over your interests. Call me old fashioned, but a lawyer should work like hell to advance his/her client’s interests and not give a damn about anyone else.

        Meet at least two lawyers in person for a consult. Most lawyers will have a short meeting with you for free so you can get to know them and describe your problem — make the “free” part clear up front. I would not use a lawyer who insists on being paid for the first meeting unless he comes highly recommended from someone you trust.

        I ended up using a female lawyer after meeting her. She wasn’t ideological and put my interests first.

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  3. “Surprisingly, despite years of mommy poisoning the well, many children can see through her machinations and retain affection and loyalty to their father.”

    That’s because mommy usually shacks up with a lowlife who oogles the girls or berates the boys, and otherwise creates a constant air of animosity that erupts from time to time. Compared to that, what’s not to love about the chubby, beta dad who shows up once in a while and takes them out to ice cream.

    Plus, mommy’s constant diatribes against a guy who takes them out to ice cream makes her lose her credibility real fast. And at some point, children rebel. What better than seeking out the guy she reviles?

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  4. There’s another form of double dipping… when the ex-spouse receiving alimony shacks up with a new partner but doesn’t marry that person…thus receiving financial support from the new partner while still receiving alimony from the ex.

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  5. The priesthood is starting to look more and more enticing.

    Now I see why they don’t marry.

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  6. yeah, fuck marriage equality bullshit, time to start pushing for marriage fairness. It seems the only people who should get married are gays. There’s nothing in it for straight guys. You see a lot of normal white guys are getting the same benefits of just knocking up chicks and with less in child support payments.

    Society is so fucked. Related to the last couple of posts, I blame our fathers and their fathers, they didn’t bother to hold the line as civilization was assaulted from within. Or maybe they’re in on the joke and are happy to watch the old ways burn too.

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  7. My husband, has explicitly stated, any time these alimony horror stories come up, that he would disappear in the middle of the night if I ever so much as hinted at alimony (should we divorce). I take him at his word.

    I work in a mostly male dominated business and have therefore been given a lot of the “girl duties” like hiring and payroll, and you should see what some of these guys pay in alimony and child support. It is astonishing. Some of these dudes are execs that make very good money, and their take home is sometimes less than mine!

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    • Why is alimony even a thing? I suppose if a man detonates his marriage after his wife has worked to put him through school or helped him build a business or something, it might make sense. But how is possible that a woman can destroy her marriage and still claim the right for her husband to support her?

      What the hell?

      #learningcurve

      Starting to understand why so many men are saying no to marriage altogether.

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      • It won’t be if women keep working and getting equal pay. It obviously much less common, but sometimes women end up paying spousal support. I bet Kevin Federline won’t be getting off the gravy train anytime soon.

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      • Tis true. I have never heard a person squeal so loud at the injustice as a woman ordered to pay alimony to a man. I know two.

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      • How many female billionaires are in the Forbes list? How many in the top 1%?
        Not close to 50%, and it will never be, except through divorce-theft. If women end up paying alimony in considerable proportions, most of them will pay it with ex-hubbies’ assets.

        Except inheritance, marriage, Oprah, and turbohottie movie star singer, women are not wired to generate wealth. This old truth has been buried with PC blank-slatism and “war against pattern recognition” (CH ™), along with many others.

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      • Right, but what I’m saying is that if a couple earns the same amount of money, then neither of them would pay alimony to the other. Just like if they share custody equally and make the same amount of money, there is no child support.

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      • Alimony is a thing, because, like other means of taking from someone and handing it to others, it allows the scum in charge, to dole out supposed favors to drones, in return for support. In civilized, sans government, societies, alimony is never a thing. IOW, it helps create a class of people who feel dependent on the pack of trash called government, for their livelihood.

        What’s sad is that those who are being victimized, which are inevitably those with first possession of the resources that keep the whole racket going in the first place, are so thoroughly indoctrinated that they too believe the organization(s) that robs them for the benefit of scum and sycophantic whore drones, are still somehow useful; for anything other than target practice. Once that delusion disappears, we may once again find ourselves in a world that wouldn’t benefit greatly from Ahmadinejad obtaining a nice stash of nukes.

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      • Alimony is a hold over from at fault divorce and men divorcing women to trade in for a younger model.

        Before anyone screams at me, neither were ever a large problem, but they happened and so there were laws to deal with them

        The main idea of those laws were that they acknowleged that womens value peaked early while was also a highly contributing factor to preparing the home so that a man could work and advance his career. If he cheated or left her the courts understood how hard it would be for her to secure resources again as an older woman that isnt a virgin. She actually was a victim and was treated as such.

        So alimony was created.

        But it was never looked at closely after the sexual revolution. The feminists and men figured itd be the same song and dance. Reality obviously has proven them wrong after no fault divorce, but no one outside of the manosphere acknowledges the lies or reality that it’s now an easy tool to reward the criminals at the victims expense

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    • Alimony and child support can be twisted into slavery.

      A few years ago a good buddy caught his wife in an affair. He divorced her.

      She took him to the cleaners.

      Never mind that his ex had a JD/MBA degree from a top school and was quite capable of pulling down six figures. Never mind that she had inherited seven figures before they were married (so it wasn’t community property). The court only looked at the fact that she hadn’t been working, that my buddy had been making very good money during the marriage and that they had three kids. The court awarded her a half their marital assets and good chunk of his income each month for alimony and child support.

      A few years later he said screw it and quit his corporate job to start a biz, in part to have no income to pay her. She’s *still* not working and back in court trying to cut more pounds of flesh out of him. The law allows her to say he “should” be making $X and she is entitled to a part of that even if he isn’t making $X. He fought back by showing she is capable of making big bucks but chooses not to do so. The process is still grinding along.

      It’s been a living hell for my friend. I don’t know how he hasn’t burned up in anger. He said he did, but he couldn’t live like that. He’s taken a very zen approach to it since for sanity’s sake.

      His experience showed me up close and personal how f’d up the system is. For Pete’s sake, protect yourselves. No marriage without an iron-clad prenup. Do it right and don’t be cheap. Get a family law specialist who isn’t biased against men. Make sure your fiancee has her own independent counsel, even if you have to pay.

      More important than a prenup, only marry the right girl who is traditional and feminine and modest. Never, ever marry a lawyer. Screen her. My buddy’s ex threw a fit when he offered her a diamond engagement ring that wasn’t flawless. In hindsight that was an early warning sign right there. No diamond engagement ring, no fancy wedding. If she balks at these she is a low quality woman. Don’t marry her.

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      • I may be reaching, but shit like this is what makes me rue the day we accepted Chritsian “morals” into the West. Not the Christianity of Constantine and Byzantium, but this feel good, hippy, zen, long hair, guitar stringing, SLAVE MORALITY. Your friend doesn’t burn in anger and exact appropriate revenge because “it’s not the right thing to do,” right? Countless movies and text where revenge is ‘wrong’ showing us the virtue of bending over and asking for another one.

        The feminization of the male started when Jesus told us to turn the other cheek and we took him at face value. We need to go back to the old values, ROMAN values, that show a healthy appreciation for justice.

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      • on December 16, 2012 at 6:03 pm Nobody of Import

        It wasn’t so much that he told you to turn the other cheek for everything- that’s what they TAUGHT you in Bible School, etc.

        What they don’t tell you is that Jesus taught to defend ourselves as well- there’s a time for turning the other cheek, and a time for brandishing a sword (though one needs be careful with that- you don’t start fights you END them…)

        And…one should be careful of embrasing what Constantine and Byzantium brought to the table as well… The notion of monogamy comes from them and it’s a source of numerous problems in and of itself (You’re not wired for anything other than short-term monogamy and males…heh…aren’t wired for it at all.). If God had intended for us to do what that of Constantine and Byzantium brought to Christianity, we’d be wired for it and there’d be a lot less “cheating” going on.

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      • I’m with you Flavia Flav.

        But with my friend it was more a case of finding that living in a state of perpetual outraged anger was killing him. Something had to give. So he just puts it away and doesn’t touch it. He hasn’t forgiven his ex at all. He doesn’t want the kids to get in the middle of it. He still has to see her a couple times a week when they exchange the kids.

        I have a theory about “morality” like turn the other cheek. It’s often used by those in power to get away with outrageous things and disarm others from retaliation. Those who shout moral pieties the most are often those who violate them the most.

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      • That is the honest truth. How many movies/shows do you see where the protagonist doesn’t kill the bad guy when he has a chance because he does not want to “stop to his level.” The sense that martyrdom is more virtuous than justice is a constant theme in our media, and I don’t think it is a coincidence. It is another part of the onslaught to complete the total pussification of the American male.

        Justice is in our blood though, at least mine. Revenge is healthy, not pathological like the dicks in the media like to pretend.

        BTW I have a blog post about Taken being the exception if you wanna have a look : http://revoltagainst.wordpress.com/2012/04/18/taken-the-rejection-of-slave-morality/

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  8. on December 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm youdon'tneedtoknow

    Your sentence about “what type of man would go to war for this system” just struck a nerve brother.

    In the fall of 2009 I was barely 20 years old and home in New Jersey for my two weeks of pre-deployment leave, as I was about to deploy to Afghanistan with the Marines. During this time, my uncle’s ex-wife put him through hell and it left a mark on me. My uncle is a doctor, although not very knowledgeable about women. This bitch was a mutual acquaintance through friends, and one day theyear before, she came to his house literally with bags and her little whelp by the side. He felt sorry for her, and to be honest, she was kind of hot, so he let the cunt into his house. She played the usual game of acting wifey-cooking, cleaning, sex, until he married her (he was the third one, by the way). Soon afterwards, the cunt got breast cancer from the cigarettes she was so fond of sucking on, and my uncle paid big bucks to get her treated.

    Wasn’t long before she started acting like the entitled bitch she was, even her little bastard spawn locked the door in my uncle’s face because he didn’t get candy from the grocery store! The final straw was when she tried to put her biological mistake under my uncle’s name to make him legally the father. When he made it known that a divorce was in the proceedings, he had to leave his OWN HOUSE and live with a friend because if the bitch accused him of abuse, he would probably lose everything. He had to go into debt to pay for her lawyer and his, and he lost the car he let her drive (that he paid for of course).

    Lessons to take away:
    1. Never marry.
    2. Exhaust every female in your zip code before you have any relations with a single mom.
    3. This corrupt upside down system is not worth fighting for, and I have no loyalty to america.

    In fact, every time a national disaster happens, I laugh my ass off and hope as many people died as possible. I think men like Tim McVeigh and Theodore Kaczynksi are heroes, because they show just how much damage one determined individual can do to this system. That being said, I wasn’t gonna let my friends go to war without me. I’m a man of my word, so when I signed the dotted line I wasn’t going to back out when it was my turn. Not trying to be macho, but that’s just how I am. Of course, I will NEVER go to war for this country again, I don’t do volunteer work, I don’t donate any money to charity, I do my best to be as selfish as possible.

    Last I heard of the cunt was that she was currently with victim #4.

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    • young friend .. appreciate your service.. I mean this sincerely ..get help ..stay productive .. you are way to young to carry that attitude forward into life..

      your anger is not unjustified ..but is an injustice to yourself as a man to carry it with you.. as f**ked as the world is in many ways .. there are wonderful experiences and much work to do for your own benefit.. find a way to be happy in spite of how bad it is ..endure

      Like


    • on December 13, 2012 at 6:56 pm Slobo Milosevic

      There are other vets who have like feelings and thoughts, friend. Loyalty to the man next to you in the same trench exists out in civland as well; said loyalty may not need to extend higher, in time.

      May your soul find solace, either way.

      Endure.

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    • I’ve seen and heard worse done to our fellow veterans. I’m a former 8 year Army veteran of both the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars with one tour in each country. There was a soldier in my battallion who got married to a woman and had a daughter with her. He was divorced from the woman. He went home a week earlier than his normal R & R leave(vacation) on emergency leave from Afghanistan. He was supposed to be home for his daughter’s 3rd birthday. This soldier seemed to be happy until he went home on leave. The mother and former wife of the soldier hooked up and lived with a boyfriend whom I’ll call Mr. Thug Life. Mr. Thug Life had often beaten the soldier’s 2 year old daughter. Mr. Thug Life one day killed the 2 year old girl about a week before her 3rd birthday. A Captain, his Company Commander and top commisioned officer of his company, and his 1st Sergeant, the top sergeant and non-commisioned officer of his company, told him that he could and should stay home as they would not expect him to return.(I know that you a former Marine know and understand the rank structure, but I’m trying to clarify for those who have never been in the military.) He returned anyway. His Company Comander and 1st Sergeant were angry for him returning. He said he would rather return and fix aircraft, helicopters, because he had nothing at home now that his only child, his beloved daughter, was dead and he couldn’t stand going to her grave or thinking about her every day because he buried her. He stated that he’d rather be with his fellow soldiers, brothers, fixing aircraft despite the airfield being the favorite target of the enemy taliban for firing mortar rounds and rockets on the Forward Operating Base. Whereas before you could sense and internal happiness in him now there was an internal sadness. Many of his fellow soldiers thought he was an “emotional ticking timb bomb”. Both the mother and Mr. Thug Life were arrested by the police, but that did the soldier, the father, little good and did the 2 year old girl, the daughter, even less good.

      I have many other horror stories as well. Hang in there brother. I understand why you would want to live selfishly. I do too. I do try to give as much as I can to my fellow veterans. It saddens me to say this, and I have absolutely no plans to bring about the fall of the USA and plan to never be a traitor. I really don’t want to see our nation fail because I know how bad it can get based off of experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets worse in the USA because I truly believe our divisions are greater under the surface and once the money and freedom go, then everyone realizes it, then there will be hell to pay, and we are in my humble opinion on that course. It frightens and saddens me. I don’t want this. However, I recognize as many others do that the USA is bound to fail at some point because it has turned its back on everything which made it great in the first place. It amazes me that the USA has lasted as long as it has. Most veterans I know feel as though this nation treats them like garbage. Who can blame them?

      Like


    • on December 14, 2012 at 6:41 am Days of Broken Arrows

      I hate to add to your negativity here, but there is yet a fourth lesson in all this: never let a woman live with you.

      I don’t know if you’re familiar with a radio talk show host named Tom Leykis, but he warns against this for the very reason you describe. Women can throw you out of your own home on a whim and you wind up answering to a judge for a house you’re paying for. You don’t need kids for this to happen, just an unhappy wife or girlfriend.

      Leykis’ old shows can be heard on YouTube and he’s currently doing podcasts.

      Like


      • He’s also trolling the DateHookUp.com forums, posing as a woman.

        Like


      • on December 14, 2012 at 12:22 pm Hugh G. Rection

        Leykis even had a show on military wives:

        The worst thing is that the military will help your ex steal your paycheck and military pension, they’ll just pay some of your money directly to her while you are overseas getting shot at for inadequate pay.

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      • “warmakers are tampering with your wives, while pocketing huge profits”

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      • She says “warmakers are tampering with your LIVES, while pocketing huge profits” but ‘wives’ works too.

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  9. A private detective would pay for itself here.Suspicion is good but photos are better.

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  10. I agree, hire a PI and get dat evidence. Don’t stop digging until you have enough dirt to bury the whore. You have to be ruthless with whores.

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  11. With the laws in place, a woman can screw up a man’s life more than the other way around. Also, a miserable woman can make your life hell, whereas it isn’t that hard to ignore a man being unpleasant. When it comes to commitment, men need to be more selective than women.

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  12. I think GBFM should put his poem up again.

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    • Yes. Once more, with feelingzzzlozlzzzlzolz.

      Like


    • on December 14, 2012 at 10:39 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

      lozozozozozozoz heartsistez!!!

      i need to send dat lady some t-shirts!!!!!!

      http://www.cafepress.com/greatbooksformen.582539775

      “da professional womenz ode”

      alpha fucks and beta bucks
      dat is how we roll
      da butthexting cockass we fucks and sucks
      and in our anuthes it doth deosul
      alpha fucks and beta bucks
      it is da way of da fed
      to transfer assetss to dose who butthext
      cuckold dose who pay for our bread
      beta bucks and alpha fucks
      it’s what day teach us we;’re entitled too
      da assetts from betas we plucks
      after da alphas desol us through our hole for poo
      lzozozlzzolzlzlzlz
      cuckold da betas cockhold da alphas
      datsz what day taught us in mba grad school
      as da feiisnsits see no truth nor justice in their laws
      and say da great books for menz was all fools.
      yes, yes, i did very good on my gmats
      dey bernenakifed my soul away, left me with cats

      zlzlzzozozozo

      Like


    • on December 14, 2012 at 10:40 am Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)

      yah man feel free to use it all anywhere lzozlzolzzoz i thk the matrix post would be funny in digital animation:

      http://greatbooksformen.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/i-can-show-you-the-way-neo-but-you-will-have-to-walk-it-zlozlzlzozzlozlzlzo/

      alos one cock rule would rock as a animated rap:

      OMG both of you betado9uches above are violating THE ONE COCK RULE!!!

      You are alloowing chix to bring other COCKS into your mind lozlzlzzoz zlozllzl. The second a chick makes me think of another cock she is outta my house outta my mind or if she’s texting on a date which almost never happens because i almost never date i go “i gotta use the men’s room lzozlzl” and then i leave her with the bill. she can text her ten other cocks to comne over and pay for her drniks/dinner lzozlzlzllzlzlz and then,. after paying, they have full right to gizizizizizalizzz all over her lzozlz

      “I’ve been seeing this girl for a year. We live together and I’ve still got hand.”

      OMG lzozzlzll wtf are fuckity fucks doing with chix in your homes? lzozlzlzlz omg lozlzlzlzlzl looozers lzozlzlzlz1!! hzhzh

      THEY VIOLATE THE ONE COCK RULE THEY ARE OUT! OUT!

      OUT!

      O U T OUT! lzozlzlzl

      OMG lozlzlzozlozozolzl wft r u doing dating a chick 4 a yer did your dick fall off? Were yu chosen by Beernanke and given an award and medal to support today’s slutty slutt vampiressses cuckholders cockcutters?

      sounds 2 me it is the latter as u have no cock lzozlzlzlzl lzzozl

      and she made you think of another cock

      fucktard haven’t u heard of the one cock rule?

      hey yo!! let’s teach these douches somethin ’bout nbein a man yo!

      throw a beat over this way.
      yo yo yo yo
      yo yo yo

      now hit it!

      one cock rule one cock rule
      i ain’t no beta fool i ain’t no beta tool
      about another cock ya make me think
      i’m gone, yo bitch,
      let the betas buy yas yer next drink

      one cock rule one cock rule
      i ain’t no beats fool i ain’t no beta tool
      over vampires and werewolfe you ginas all drool
      letting their cocks touch your deep down stool
      then you blame the betas in school
      and transfer wealth for the bernanke gene pool
      jonah goldberg sends our alphas 2 die on foreign shores
      stuffing his face with dc pizza as they die in fiat wars
      neocon womenz repeating butthexers lies in their mags
      even after menopause and no need for da ragz
      telling young chickas to lust after vampires
      as they build their fiat empires

      one cock rule one cock rule
      i ain’t no fool i ain’t no tool
      about another cock ya make me think
      i’m gone, yo bitch,
      let the betas buy yas yer next drink

      let the betas pay to raise your bastard kids
      let the betas sign teh fiat masters marriage contracts
      theft in fiat inflation is hid
      as they swing their bankrupting axe
      i don’t care what last night u did,
      ever since i kicked ya gina out, i been relaxed.

      as they promote butthex across the land
      ripping out fetuses from parenthood planned
      as fathers form teh homes the neocons ban
      the atalnatic authoresses just don’t undertsand

      but when chix wakes up and her butt is sore
      it’s not my fault no–it’s cause she’s a whore
      as the fiat masters desoul women with butthex cock
      teach them to transfer wealth with pre-teen strumpet rock

      one cock rule one cock rule
      i ain’t no fool i ain’t no tool
      about another cock ya make me think
      i’m gone, yo bitch,
      let the betas buy yas yer next drink

      womenz womenz bernanke took advanatge of you
      you wasted your best years on vampires and werewolves
      and now you cry your tears cause of your sore anus
      stamp your little feet saying, “you betas must pay for this!!!”

      and aging neocon women promoting butthexing vampires
      teacxhing women to lust after the undead
      as the neocons suck the western world dry
      bankrupting it all,m enlsaving it debt
      while selfish womenz at the atalnatic monthly
      cry cry cry
      cry cry cry
      not for you or me
      but for themselves
      not for the 50,000,000 aborted souls
      but for their dried up ginas and sore assholes
      so many chances they had to marry a nice guy
      but he left her dry
      so whe butthexed with the asshole
      and now see her cry
      and wonder why
      and transofrm the entire univeristy
      into a program to further the fiat lie
      to transfer wealth and wage war and death
      to about fifty million more
      and redefine fifty cocks in her ass as empowered
      and not a whore

      all together now!

      lzozllzzl lozlzlz zlozozoz
      lozlzl lzozozlz ozlzooz zlo9oo
      lozlzlz ozlzoozl ozlzlzoz lzozlz zlzoz zlzozzlozlzozlo

      one cock rule one cock rule
      i ain’t no fool i ain’t no tool
      about another cock ya make me think
      i’m gone, yo bitch,
      let the betas buy yas yer next drink
      alreayd seen yer pink stink
      bent ya over the sink

      and howscomes the bankers southpark never does satarize
      because everything is fair game–truth love honor–excpet for fiat butthexing lies.

      all together now!

      lzozllzzl lozlzlz zlozozoz
      lozlzl lzozozlz ozlzooz zlo9oo
      lozlzlz ozlzoozl ozlzlzoz lzozlz zlzoz zlzozzlozlzozlo

      AND THREE COCK RULE:

      ^^^^ to the 24 for or so tardbetadouches who voted my “one cock rule” rap down

      lozlzlzlzlozzllzlzlzlz

      what do ya want?

      a two cock rule rap?

      or three cock rule?

      three cock rule, three cock rule,
      i’m a beta herb my own cock won’t do
      i need a chick to cuckold me
      i need a chick on me to pee
      three cock rule, three cock rule,
      i love being the greater fool
      one cock in her mouth, one in her anus,
      i keep mine in my pants,
      and pay her bills and rent and fare for da bus.
      so she can club and grind, on denim cocks dance.
      three cock rule, three cock rule,
      i treat my lady like a nice guy,
      give her chivarly while with 2 others she doth lie,
      three cock rule, three cock rule,
      while your cock doth touch her stool,
      i play videogames @ home in my single mom’s basement,
      as teh fed fianance feminsits studies @ school,
      teaching her to love and bail out the butthexers,
      to persucte me 4 letting her live 4 free,
      while she tickles drummer/druggie cock until it goes
      splooge splooge splooge! tee hee tee hee!
      three cock rule, three cock rule,
      i’m the beta herb, teh cuckholded fool,
      i respect her, keep my cock in my pants,
      fund her with other cocks to dance.

      lozlzlzlzl

      or would u betaherbs prefer a five cock rule rap! omg i bet someofya would like dat! lzozl

      lzozozozo

      Like


      • Thanks. I’m going out tonight and a girl I dumped last weekend will probably be there. I’ll have to remember this!

        Like


  13. If you suspect they are actually married, go to a courthouse in the state in which they live, or call a courthouse, and see about requesting a copy of any marriage license in the ex-wife’s name. This should not be difficult to do.

    If you simply suspect they’re living together, then you need to consult an attorney, see about a private investigator, etc.

    Like


  14. Archie Bunker FTW.

    Like


  15. on December 13, 2012 at 5:09 pm RappaccinisDaughter

    Why is there even such a thing as alimony? You’re a big girl, go get a job and support yourself. Oh, you were a stay-at-home wife and you missed out on several years’ worth of career? Boo f’ing hoo. That doesn’t mean you’re owed a certain lifestyle. Suck it up and go get an entry-level job and a roommate to share expenses with.

    Like


    • In Olde Timey days — like, medieval England, we’re talking about — a husband gained ownership of all his wife’s property (her dowry) when they married, and did not relinquish it when they divorced. Since women didn’t work back then, the result was that a divorce would frequently leave the woman totally destitute. Alimony was a way to avoid that: a divorced man kept the dowry, but incurred an obligation to feed, house, clothe, and otherwise support his ex-wife until she remarried or died.

      Two things upended the applecart. First, we started dividing marital assets at divorce. That’s a subject about which entire books could be (and have been) written, but the key point is that ex-wives ceased to be penniless; they took (oftentimes substantial) assets with them when they left a marriage. Second, women fully entered the workforce as primary wage-earners in their own right, and there ceased to be any good reason why they couldn’t support themselves.

      Together, those two developments have pretty thoroughly undermined the policy rationale for alimony, and in a sane world it would have become a historical footnote occasionally pressed into service to avoid injustice in truly extraordinary cases. Instead, the American family law system in which I toil has been marinating in femcunt ideology since the sixties, and while there are a few scattered efforts at reform, the result is that alimony largely persists — not as necessary spousal support, but to make it more financially convenient for women to abandon the beta providers they swore to love, honor, and obey.

      Like


      • In medieval times, the landlord also had the right of ‘first night’ with anyone’s wife and the firstborn son (possibly the landlord’s) was first in line to inherit whatever little they owned.

        Like


      • This ‘first night’ stuff is almost certainly apocryphal. See Wikipedia on Droit du Seigneur.

        Like


      • on December 14, 2012 at 12:25 pm Hugh G. Rection

        That’s actually a myth, most historians dispute this and there seem to be no credible sources. But if it happened in a Mel Gibson movie it must be true 😉

        Like


      • Charleton Heston beat him to it in The Warlord.

        Like


      • on December 14, 2012 at 1:53 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        Seems to me that if you’re a feminist in the classical sense–e.g., someone who believes that women have the same rights as men–then the next inevitable conclusion is that we have the same responsibilities. Which would include supporting your own damn self.

        Now child support (for legitimate, biological children born into the marriage) is a different story. But even then, I would only see it being paid upon a DNA test that proves that the ex-husband is indeed the children’s father, and if the father had chosen to leave custody to the divorcing wife.

        Like


      • I agree with you. But that’s the thing: modern feminists aren’t feminists in the classical sense. They’re a grievance lobby, interested in exalting women (often at the expense of men) rather than in equality of rights and responsibilities.

        Like


      • on December 14, 2012 at 3:13 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        It’s a pet peeve of mine; can you tell?

        And while we’re on the subject, why isn’t there Selective Service for women? Isn’t that supposed to be our half of the social contract? Even if we’re not physically suited for certain combatant roles (not all of ’em; women can make damn good snipers, for one), there are plenty of ways that women can serve their country in times of need.

        Like


      • They could let themselves be captured by the enemy and nag him to death.

        Like


  16. “4. Beta ex’s money now going to buy not only ex-wife’s pre-coituswear, but her alpha lover’s cock rings.”

    I associate cock rings with homosexuality. Can cock rings be alpha?

    Like


  17. Cuckoldry and alimony (fraud or not) are more horrifying, degrading, and long-lasting crimes than a rape.

    A female rape victim will get sympathy. A male alimony/cuckoldry victim will be told to suck it up, man up, or even be laughed at. He may even be told that he was “lucky” to be part of some bitch’s life and help provide for a wonderful child.

    Like


  18. Alimony should be completely abolished. Don’t want to part with your spouses money try and work it out. I also feel child support should be abolished unless the couple was married.

    Like


  19. I think I’m going to be sick.

    Like


  20. The entire concept of alimony is sickening . If you have no children, the spouse should get nothing.

    Like


  21. Once again from the Twitter feed: ” Black Conservative ‏@BlackConser2012
    Left-wing activist calls low white birth rate a “good thing” http://topconservativenews.com/2012/12/left-wing-activist-calls-low-white-birth-rate-a-good-thing/ … #teaparty #tcot #LNYHB #p2 “.

    Yet another hard core feminist/leftist, in this case Emily Bazelon, and yet again a YKW. Prominent in the leftist media, also a hard core abortion activist. In this instance agitating for the end of white people.

    Really, this ethnic hostility is becoming remarkably open and obvious.

    Interestingly, according to Wikipedia, she is related to that noted beauty Betty Friedan.

    Now we can wait for NiteLilly and the rest of the Hasbara Rapid Reaction Brigade to show up and correct our thought crime. As usual no doubt, calmly and concisely (lolz).

    Like


    • Naw, she saves her carpal tunnel exercises for my posts.

      Like


      • Yeah I noticed that she was using the “naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews” line on you a lot.

        The purpose of which of course is to cause you to retreat in shame, refrain from further thoughtcrime, and spend the rest of your days trying to atone for your white privilege.

        Thankfully, more and more people are seeing through that particular form of thought control.

        Like


      • Maybe, but where there’s smoke, there’s fire–and there’s been a lot of smoke coming from Mr Eliot’s encampment for several months now.

        Anger towards jews? Check.

        Anger towards all NAMs? Check.

        Germanic idioms? Check.

        Love of Wagner? Check.

        It’s the last piece of the puzzle, really.

        Like


      • Got to let those Valkyries ride.

        Like


      • Alphie rides again with his exquisite grasp of logic. lllozozozozlllll

        I’ve heard tell that one can even find the occasional Jew who fits every criteria of that checklist.

        Check your premises, tootsie… and by all means, curb your enthusiasm.

        Sigh… I guess my collection of Burt Bacharach and Joe Jackson CDs don’t get me a reprieve from the fey SWPL shabbos goyim.

        Like


      • That’s not a denial.

        Like


      • Alphie, alphie, alphie… why do you refuse to learn?

        I’ve told you in the past that certain allegations are too ridiculous to even merit your much-vaunted denial.

        Much like I no longer bother replying to each ridiculous jot and tittle of the long-winding bloviating bullshit of some of the others here.

        More important, I don’t play the game by your hackneyed Alinsky rules, attempting to put me on the defensive.

        Now, if you and your coterie of hotsy-totsy-let’s-scream-NAHZEE dweebs want to run onto an abandoned field and score touchdowns, that’s you’re brand of Special Olympics… keep you warm.

        Like


      • Hell, your…. I hate when I do that. 😦

        Like


    • Starets

      Really, this ethnic hostility is becoming remarkably open and obvious.
      ——————————————————-

      Wake me up when they start hanging you from trees.

      Like


      • There probably is no need for them to hang us, when their feminist useful idiots can convince white women to delay motherhood until their fertility has declined to low levels. It takes longer, but YKW are definitely patient, and take a long view of such matters. They’ve been at it for a long time.

        By all means though, try again and maybe you can convince me that black is white, and that I don’t see what is right out in the open for all to see.

        Like


  22. on December 13, 2012 at 7:11 pm Anti-Blue pill

    Suddenly Have the Urge to kick a random chick in the cunt.

    Is this normal?

    Like


    • Just remember it the next time you have any urge to marry one of them. As I see it, marriage inherently dooms your relationship because it gives the woman hand (namely, the hand of the State) and then the usual sad process of expanding waistline, vanishing gina tingles, cuckoldry, and divorce court rape begins. The only way I can think of to maintain the balance of power is to make sure she’s more afraid of YOU getting it on with other women after the divorce than you are of HER raping you in divorce court. But if you’ve already instilled that dread, why get married? Marriage is a relic of the vanished beta male civilization.

      BTW:
      http://www.f2bbs.com/bbs/show_topic/763902

      Like


    • You gotta focus on whats important to you and remember why youre here man: To learn game. And too develop/build/maintain the alpha male locked up inside yourself.
      This CH post is about bad behavior. Recognizing bad behavior, which is often veiled in a “nothing to see here” facade, is an important trait for us as men to strengthen. Be the oak tree, not one of the weeds.

      The bitches that come on here with thier snarky remarks display bad behavior. They do a disservice to themselves, disrespect to us male readers, and disrespect to the blog’s author.

      Like


    • Focus on why youre here dude: To learn game. To develop/build/maintain the alpha male you have inside you.

      This blog post is about bad behaviour. Learning to recognize bad behaviour and calling it out is a very worthy goal and not alway easy to identify right away.

      But, be the oak tree not one of the weeds.

      Like


  23. i wonder what search she used to find the chateau… perhaps “lying cheatin’ exwife slut whore”???

    Like


  24. Perhaps not completely on topic – more data points that confirm the Chateau worldview:

    http://www.dailycal.org/2012/07/26/why-good-girls-like-bad-boys/

    Like


  25. Gentlemen, a moment of silence. Mila Kunis has made first contact with the wall. dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/arti

    And how. Yikes. I’d only rate her as about a 4.5 now.

    Like


    • Yeah, but after that impact you should see the wall!

      Like


    • Lol, was never a fan of Mila Kunis, but the quotes on that article are hilarious:

      “Make-up free: Mila doesn’t feel the need to wear make-up or get dressed up around her boyfriend, relaxed enough to be herself”

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2247570/Mila-Kunis-Ashton-Kutcher-completely-sync-baggy-tracksuits-dog-walk.html

      Like


    • She looks like she just got fucked for four hours straight and didn’t catch a wink of sleep.

      Like


    • That’s what Ashton Kutcher likes: chicks who’ve hit the wall. Makes it easier for him to milk them for fame (she’s got a steady movie career, he’s a hack who’s on a flailing sitcom) whilst cheating on them (you think Demi only had one rival for his cock?).

      I’m halfway between admiring the mother fucker and wanting to murder him for all the really shitty, failed, unfunny “entertainment” he’s put out over the years that has STILL not killed his crappy career. This guy is like Rick Solomon with a sitcom.

      Like


      • I have no idea why Americans over the age of maybe 8 find guys like Ashton Kutcher, Adam Sandler or Jerry Seinfeld funny.

        Like


      • Sandler rocks.

        Seinfeld is for the SWPL fags.

        Kutcher is, like Dane Cook, a talentless fag.

        Like


      • You got the first two reversed.

        Like


      • Please. Seinfeld, for all his deserved success, is for the supercilious,we-will-not-protect-society crowd who like to insult those who act with passion and feeling.

        Sandler’s career has been degraded by SWPL critics, who don’t like low-brow, angry-masculine humor (many of his characters have tempers that inflame themselves to defeat opponents) and slapstick. In short, SWPLs hate that Sandler’s audience is largely red-staters, or blue state working class people. But, like most comedians/humorists who aren’t SWPL tongue-bathers, his career will appear much better in retrospect—probably be called a “genius”.

        Bob Hope, Marx Brothers, Chuck Jones(Bugs Bunny director), Jerry Lewis, Blake Edwards, Harold Lloyd, Buster Keaton, the creators of the “Carry On” series in Britain, the Three Stooges—all comedians/humorists whose work was downplayed, ignored, or degraded during their lifetimes by the SWPL set (because the works played to non-SWPLs), only to see later SWPLs re-evaluate the work (i.e. blow it out their asses) and call them “geniuses” or “extremely talented” later.

        Famously, Woody Allen re-invigorated Bob Hope’s reputation when Allen, early in his career, bluntly stated that Hope was his main comedic idol. Most SWPLs at the time had written off Hope as talentless and hacky, but SWOP-favorite Allen’s words made many of them do a complete 180.

        In other words, in about 30-40 years, prepare yourself for the “Adam Sandler Retrospective” when suddenly SWPLs start talking about how “genius” Sandler’s films were—-whilst, at the same time, degrading their own contemporary Sandlers.

        And SWPLs will never see any contradiction, either.

        Like


      • Was about to say…

        Like


    • The cock carousal hasn’t been kind.

      Like


    • on December 14, 2012 at 2:02 pm RappaccinisDaughter

      It’s because she’s not wearing any makeup. Makeup makes a LOT of difference for many women.

      Like


  26. Quick game question:

    If a chick mirrors my language in text messages, is this an indicator of interest?

    [Heartiste: Yes.]

    For example, I replied to some bullshit she said with “Sounds good.” Now whenever I suggest a meet-up she replies with “sounds good.” Maybe I’m thinking too much about it but it almost seems like she’s mocking me.

    [Either way, she’s into you. Girls don’t bother sarcastically mocking guys they don’t have an incipient tingle for.]

    She has a boyfriend so she has flaked a couple times but keeps initiating contact.

    [Close the deal, or all you’ll be to her is validation of her sexiness.]

    And no I have not tapped it yet.

    [To tap or not to tap, that is the erection.]

    Like


  27. Society only pays attention to alimony rape when a woman (the second wife) is a victim. The husband is seen as fair game.

    Like


  28. I’d get a private investigator before I even talked to an attorney. With the info that an investigator can bring, you can get better help from an attorney.

    Like


    • Enh. Any halfway decent attorney is going to recommend you retain a private investigator anyways.

      Like


    • Didn’t help my uncle in his divorce – wife was sleeping around with four or five different guys, and she still took the house, the kids, and most of his six-figure salary.

      Like


  29. Have a female friend steal old guy from wife#1. Get friend to have old guy spill the beans about the secret marriage then have friend dump old guy.

    Like


  30. See, crazy prevents this sort of thing from happening. Aside of my not being a complete bitch, I’m sure that if I ever tried to pull something like this on either of my exes, they’d just end me. I would fear for my life if I ever tried to defraud either of them, and they would fear for their lives if they ever tried to defraud me. If I didn’t do them myself, someone in my family would.

    When you have lines people know they shouldn’t cross, this kind of thing can’t happen.

    Like


    • Don’t worry, soon you will be able to collar ex-boyfriends like dogs, and will be able to steal anything you want, since your husbands in blue will intercept them before they can come close.

      Like


  31. Double-dipping cuckolders need to be double-kneecapped. Then maybe they could get some free money out of not being able to walk again.
    Aggressive proposition? Yes. Necessarily aggressive proposition? Yes.

    Like


  32. 1. Hire a PI. If she is married, stop paying alimony; hire attorney to recover alimony paid while she was married. If she is not married, have PI fully document her co-habitation.
    2. Bribe the boyfriend to marry her.

    Like


  33. nobody here has considered becoming a sovereign citizen ? There was someone on the-spearhead who would brag about not paying child support nor alimony to his ex. i know if an ex wanted me to pay him exorbitant amounts of money every month for the rest of my life at no benefit to myself, i would be looking for every fucking loophole that ever was in order to make sure that NEVER happened.

    Like


  34. Even Charlie Sheen has beta moments.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2247701/Lindsay-Lohans-possessions-including-designer-clothes-potentially-embarrassing-items-set-auctioned-off.html

    “While the actress – who also owes around $8,000 in rent for her Beverly Hills mansion – was recently given $100,000 from pal Charlie Sheen to help pay her tax bill, the actor recently complained she hasn’t even said thank you.

    He said: ‘She got shorted and I found out, so I said, “Here”. I’m still waiting for a text to say Thank you. Anything you know?'”

    Like


  35. There is but one solution:

    RAPE!

    ok, I keid. You could also beat her like a Muslim wife.

    Like


  36. Not trying to be macho, but that’s just how I am. Of course, I will NEVER go to war for this country again, I don’t do volunteer work, I don’t donate any money to charity, I do my best to be as selfish as possible

    I don’t know who said that “American soldiers have always fought for the biggest nothing in History”, but whoever he was, the dude was smart.

    Of all American wars, I only respect the soldiers that fought against Mexico in 1846-1848. They actually fought for something, the right of conquest of the top piece of real estate on Earth.

    All the others fought for nihilism

    Like


    • Gerald O’Hara from Gone With the Wind said, “Why, land is the only thing in the world worth workin’ for, worth fightin’ for, worth dyin’ for, because it’s the only thing that lasts.”

      Like


  37. Divorce-industrial complex had me rolling in the aisles.

    Like


  38. This situation reminds me of my ex, and mother of my child – secretly got married in Antigua, was living with him for almost 2 years prior to that, and they were collecting welfare, claiming she was an abandoned single mother. She and her new husband got nailed with welfare fraud and kicked out of their home, which they also got under the false auspices of her being a single mother. I’d say thay’s triple dipping.

    Like


    • Damn.

      Like


    • I know of a couple (both previously divorced and unmarried now) who have bastardized a new joint child to maximize their own position. More shocking than that is that no one seems to see anything wrong with it.

      When discussing equality, what most people fail to realize is that a person’s rights only extend up until the point that they infringe upon someone else’s rights. Taking more than what is fairly yours is called stealing.

      Like


      • a person’s rights only extend up until the point that they infringe upon someone else’s rights. Taking more than what is fairly yours is called stealing.

        It’s “being progressive”.

        Like


  39. Headline of the Day
    Woman enters plea after husband is hit by truck
    http://www.wtop.com/46/3057635/Woman-enters-plea-after-husband-is-hit-by-truck

    Prosecutors say Morehead accelerated when her estranged husband walked in front of his parked vehicle and pinned him between the two trucks.

    The husband’s right leg had to be amputated at the knee.

    Not “Wife Cripples Husband for life with powerful lethal weapon”

    Like


  40. Off-topic:

    Had a pretty good night last night! Opened two girls before I just opened and engaged this group for a pretty long time. Got a few numbers, but I feel like they’re more ‘friends’ numbers. And I feel like I could have gotten more, but I was too much of a pussy. I also started to get nervous after several minutes of solid interaction, which is funny. In retrospect it’s funny at least. So, personal standpoint, I took the advice I got on here and paid close attention to everything about myself. I tried doggedly to, whenever standing in a group, to maintain the open contrapposto alpha pose. I was surprised at how often I just kept wanting to fall out of it. Whenever I was sitting, I also tried my hardest to lean back, but it’s so hard to hear that I found myself leaning in more than I’d like just to hear what was going on. I also noticed that I lose state pretty quickly. I don’t know what it is about my approach, but I really tried damned hard to just follow the identity building advice. What resulted was a ton of shit-talking from the women. The guys I actually seemed to get along great with, though.

    Line check (approaches HB 8 at bar, leans on counter putting profile to woman):
    Me: Hey…you see that weird fight outside?
    Her: ….what? There was a fight outside?
    Me: It was this little midget lady and her tall boyfriend….you didn’t see it?
    Her: ….no (seeming disinterested)
    Me: Oh….well, I knew the boyfriend would win out, but she put up a fight.
    Her: Wow…you must be psychic (flat)
    Me: (not going well, may as well just say the dumbest shit I can think of and get the fuck outta here; straightens posture) Actually….I’m from the future.
    Her: (laughter)….ohhhh really?
    Me: (inner surprise; I can’t think of anything cool to say so I shrug my shoulders like it ain’t no thang)
    Her: Well I thought that they’d be taller in the future?
    Me: I’m not short, I’m just really far away from you.
    Her: Uh-huh, hoooookay….

    (fast forward, I said I was waiting for my friends, we eventually moved over to another table where the rest of her group joined us — two guys and another girl. The other girl is a 5-6, made up out of her mind. I ignore them for a minute or two to talk to the guys. When I switch back to the girls, I just notice this intense spike of ‘talk shit.’ e.g.,)

    Her: (blah blah blah)….I really like that shit.
    Me: (Trying for misheard innuendo) …you really like dick?
    Her Friend: (Gut check mode) Uhhhhhhhhhh noooo….and if there were a dick around, I’m sure you’d be all on that shit anyway.
    Me: (Can’t think of anything cool to say, so I just give her a raised eyebrow and a smirk)
    Her: ……you know, I could see that.
    Me: (Takes a risk) you liking dick?
    Her: No, you being gay.
    Me: Does gay me wear sunglasses?
    Her: (laughs)
    Her friend: No, he just has sex with a lot of men. (they both laugh…feel like I’m crashing and burning)
    Male friend: That’s not really such a bad thing. Gay men dress really well.
    Her: (takes a look at my clothes, makes an ‘they’re okay/standard’ gesture with her hand, then laughs and shakes her head) Yeah, then I guess he’s not gay.
    Me: (figure I’ve totally just blown this exchange, so I just shrug and try to power through) ….am I getting some fucking sunglasses or what?
    (Gets solid laughter)

    Me (just generally addressing the group): So, is it scrunchie or ‘scoonchie,’ for the company?
    Her friend: What, what do you mean?
    Me: I just know I’ve seen labels with the hair tie with this weird ‘u’ with two dots over it.
    Her: Where would you have even seen that?
    (Her and her friend proceed to lose their shit over this — I don’t really get it, but I figure I’ve made a huge tactical error here)
    Her friend: You’re so dumb! (to be fair, said in a playful way) It’s scrunchie!
    Me: Ooooooh….so that weird ‘u’ means nothing then?
    Her: Nope…you’re wrong on this one.

    I gotta say…I mean, the way they say it and the way it feels, the teasing just doesn’t come off as overtly flirty to me. It just seems like they’re ripping on me. Probably have to recheck my body language and tone. Some other highlights of the night — pretty sure I got AMOG’ed a few times and had no comebacks. Here’s an example that at least felt like an amog:

    Guy: (after a group laugh over something I said) Man….can we just like, we should just like make a cartoon out of you.
    Me: I dunno man, I’m pretty sure my lats are too huge to be drawn (stupid line, they can’t all be winners I guess….)
    Guy: No I’m serious, you could have your own little animated series or something.

    So…this sort of lets me know I’m being more of an entertainer, and I have no idea how to work out of that zone. I mean, all in all a far better night than most I’ve had at least.

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    • Yeah dude, they are ripping on you, and the reason is you are presenting yourself as entertainment.

      Like


    • I get myself into similar situations to yours quite often. I think it’s something to do with reveling in the fun I socially create. But before long, you realize you’re missing the point of this show and while you were having fun with the people around you, the night is over and you’ve gained nothing. One way to re-balance the situation would be to show more of a stern side to you. For example …

      “Her friend: You’re so dumb! (to be fair, said in a playful way) It’s scrunchie!”

      You with a grin on your face could say “be careful, you’re starting to sound rude”

      Also I find that banter lines are not enough to move beyond the initial attraction stage, you need to have few stories, which can be serious, fun, and meaningful about yourself to tell.
      Other seasoned members will sure help shed more light on this, but I related with your story and wanted to add that.

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    • You have the lines down pretty solid, but otherwise, you’re still coming across as an omega dork. They find your canned lines amusing; but because that kind of verbal skill is incongruous with an omega, they therefore think that maybe you’re gay instead of a typical straight omega dork.

      It’s good that you’re at least trying. Eventually, with practice, you’ll pull yourself up into beta territory.

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      • Nah, I’m not -that- bad off, Corv. Omegas have never had LTRs or hooked up with decent or good-looking women. I’ve done those things. Omegas can barely pull fatties or sub-5’s — I can do both of these easily. Point is — I no longer -want- to do those things. Maybe what I think of as an ‘omega’ is different, though, than the accepted community definition.

        My only ‘canned’ line of the night was the initial opener. Unless the scrunchie thing is an actual routine — I didn’t know it was, so if it is, then count that.

        Naz —

        Yeah, I’m kind of afraid to reveal a ‘stern side’ for fear of them just completely shitting down my neck, though. Although, at one point I did make a little face with a chuckle and was like ‘hoooo….cold,’ and her friend went out of her way to say she was just kidding. So….they seem to not -dislike- me.

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      • I see… I didn’t know your history. You could have gotten really out of practice, and your overall attitude has deteriorated. The clue here is that they were teasing you about being gay, which is a telltale sign that you’re probably giving off an omega vibe. And men can go through omega phases without being omega normally. It’s really common if they have just been divorced or dumped, for example.

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      • Well, I’m like 30 pounds overweight now 😀

        It used to be 50…so, progress.

        Plus, I’m a manlet, and half-black (although no one ever thinks I’m part black).

        But yeah thanks for the input. I think it’s sort of weird how people will give off mixed messages of having fun and just…merciless teasing 😀

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      • Dood – Forget the ‘contraposto alpha pose’.
        As far as they’re concerned, you’re furniture.
        See a girl you like – ask her to dance.
        If she says yes, ask for her number after 1, max 2 dances.
        Might still be fake or flake, but at least you’re not wasting your time with useless bullshit.

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      • Congrats Wolfie. You are crowned *Mental Masturbator of the Month* !

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    • They’re all picking up on incongruency and reacting to it. This’ll happen for a while lol it’s a good thing, it means you’re trying new shit out and it just doesn’t fit proper. A night of getting shit thrown at you and learning is better than a mundane night going through the same ol’ motions playing to “not lose” instead of playing to “win”.

      On my way out to the bar but I’ll write some more in-depth shit here tomorrow for ya.

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      • Ha. Look forward to the read.

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      • Sorry, had a busy weekend (the good kind lol). I’mma do a big breakdown here for ya ’cause quite frankly I think you’re capable of getting your shit handled compared to a lot of cases…you’re new so it’s still going to be a lot of work, but you have a good attitude about approaching all this and your problems are really a bunch of small TOTALLY handle-able sticking points and a few big ones that overlap eachother so once you start knocking them out, they’ll start snowballing over eachother like knocking down a bunch of dominos.

        One of the reasons I became fascinated with pickup was because of how interconnected most of it is…you can almost distill pickup down into just a few over-arching concepts, all the external stuff (routines, body langauge, voice tonality, etc.) is just zooming in on the strands that make up those concepts like wool on a sweater. Man I’m full of analogies today.

        Alright so let’s get to it:

        “Got a few numbers, but I feel like they’re more ‘friends’ numbers.”

        They are. You’ll know when you have a number where the girl sees you as fuckable instead of a friend. But that’s okay, this is just a symptom of one of the large concepts you’ll need to work on, which we currently call “communicating as a man to a woman”, vs communicating as “a friend to a friend” or, as a lot of PUA newbies and a lot of the old-school routines did, as “a woman to a woman” lol

        The underlying concept is that when you’re talking to her, she should basically be getting the vibe that if she hangs around you, you are going to eventually fuck her. Todd from RSD puts it the best way (the “imminent danger” bit goes way back in the PUA community lol):

        (30 second clip)

        Right now the girls don’t see you as having a penis, basically. It’s not a big deal, EVERYONE runs into this when they start learning about pickup. Hell, even I still have sets here and there where I get the number and I’m like “fuck, there isn’t even any point in txting this one, this was all totally friend to friend” lol I still try to turn it around for practice, but it’s usually a REALLY huge/awkward leap to switch modes because you’re playing the “surprise, I have a penis!” game at that point and doesn’t pan out much and I don’t have the patience to play it suuuuper slow and really slowly turn it around which can actually work…my mentality is more “ah, fuck, that was gay of me, okay next chick remember YaReally: Man to woman, none of this friend to friend shit” and move on.

        I’ll talk more about the “man to woman” communciation down below.

        “And I feel like I could have gotten more”

        You could have. 🙂

        “but I was too much of a pussy.”

        You were. lol Again don’t beat yourself up about it. Learning pickup is basically like running after someone who’s riding a bicycle. At first you’re only gonna get a block and then lose it. Then you’ll get 2 or 3 blocks and lose it. Then you’ll actually touch the bicycle for a split second and lose it. Then you’ll manage to keep pace with the bicycle for a few strides and lose it. Down the road you’ll be able to keep up with the person on the bicycle, but this is how the learning process feels and you are in for YEARS of it lol At first it’ll be just getting solid phone numbers, then it’ll be getting those girls to actually want to fuck you, then it’ll be actually getting laid, then it’ll be getting hotter girls, then it’ll be getting threesomes, etc. etc.

        This is why we stress trying to look at the game as fun, and approaching as fun and hilarious and retarded, because if you take it too seriously it’s going to stress you out like crazy since there’s no end to the learning process.

        “I also started to get nervous after several minutes of solid interaction, which is funny. In retrospect it’s funny at least.”

        This is why I say you have a good attitude for handling this. You KNOW how absurd it is to be getting nervous over it lol We all have little incidents like this. I remember being out of the game for a bit (settled with a girl for a few months and stopped going out) and when I got back out there I’d like, know exactly what I should’ve said…5 min after the moment had passed. And I’d laugh like “c’mon brain, work faster like you used to” because it was funny to me to drop the ball like that so much for a while. I remember going into a strip club and ordering a drink and as I passed my money to the bartender my hand was literally uncontrollably shaking with nerves, it had been a while since I had been around a bunch of hot naked chicks, and I grabbed my hand and laughed at myself like “wtf YaReally?? never seen a naked girl before?? lol”

        “I took the advice I got on here and paid close attention to everything about myself.”

        Good stuff. Handle one thing at a time. There’s so many different areas to the game that it can be overwhelming if not impossible to tackle them all at once. What a lot of us did was focus on one or two main things at a time. Like “okay tonight, I’m going to stay in every set until they tell me to fuck off, no matter how awkward it gets, either they flat out literally tell me to go away or they leave.” Or “okay this month I’m going to work on my kino, so I’m going to find an excuse to hug the girl in the first minute of the interaction in every set, even if it feels awkard and weird at first.”

        It’s a long-term game, so right now you’re working on your general alpha vibe (body language, eye contact, voice tonality, loudness, taking up space, etc.), which is great, so don’t be annoyed with yourself if you don’t get around to fixing the dancing monkey stuff till you get that stuff handled. Baby steps. 🙂

        “I was surprised at how often I just kept wanting to fall out of it.”

        You’re unwiring a LOT of years of bad habits. We always want to return to what we’re used to even when we know it’s bad for us (this is why pessimistic angsty people tend to stay that way, even when good things happen to them they instantly find the black lining to it). Fortunately it works the other way around too…if you build good habits/outlooks, and do them for long enough, those will be what you return to.

        It supposedly takes 21 days of doing something to literally build new neural pathway whatevers in your brain that make that thing no longer seem like a struggle to make yourself do. Google it for more info, but the important thing is to keep consciously focusing on “okay, how am I standing, oh shit, I’m standing like a wuss again, okay fix that, good, that’s better.”

        The learning process for anything is:

        1) Unconscious Incompetance (oblivious that you suck)
        2) Conscious Incompetance (you suck, but you KNOW you suck (this is you with your body language right now)
        3) Conscious Competance (I suck but I’m focusing on fixing it (this is what you’re transitioning into right now))
        4) Unconscious Competance (I’m all fixed up and don’t even have to think about this shit anymore)

        “Whenever I was sitting, I also tried my hardest to lean back, but it’s so hard to hear that I found myself leaning in more than I’d like just to hear what was going on.”

        lol this is an annoying problem in bars especially. In quieter places like restaraunts or at someone’s house, it’s not a big deal. You’ll learn to lip-read a bit and a lot of bar situations involve just emotional communication (ie – the girl isn’t really saying anything important, she’s just trying to get across to you some emotion that she’s feeling and you can pick that up through her body-language, facial expression, etc.). Really though, if you’re just chilling with your social group and you can’t hear, go ahead and lean in, it won’t kill ya.

        The main area to focus on not leaning in is when you’re standing and talking to a girl. Guys will lean in to hear what she has to say and it’s very supplicative looking/feeling…like the words of some random girl you met 5 seconds ago are the most important thing in the world to you, you don’t even know if she’s worth your time yet and you’re giving her all that value, you know? So the main time to be paying attention to whether you’re leaning in is in a legit approach.

        It actually helps with the “man to a woman” communication thing, because instead of leaning in you can pull her in and say “I can’t hear you, what was that?” and have her talk closer to your face while you brush cheeks together or stare into her eyes intently etc., which starts building sexual tension (VS standing 2 feet away with your hands in your pocket nodding at her).

        Here’s an AWESOME 80 min video by Gambler (I recommend watching the entire thing, there’s tons of good stuff in there for dealing with loud environments etc.) with like a 30 min section in the middle demonstrating this “man to a woman” communication thing.

        Everyone who’s working on turning their vibe more sexual should watch this video, I’m not even really a big Gambler fan but this is solid as fuck:

        Vital section on “man to a woman” stuff starts at 26 minutes in:

        At 30:20 he stars escalating the sexual tension lol same with 33:45. But watch this whole segment with the girl because his actual explanations of what’s going on and why it works is excellent.
        Watch how the tension goes through the roof just from cutting into her space and staring her down with laser eyes and doing what we call “Triangular Gazing” (look from eye to eye and down to her lips and back up, it shows you’re thinking about her lips/kissing/etc. without being blatant) while she talks.

        My fav summary of what he’s doing is: “The reason it’s sexual is there’s no way on EARTH you would do that with a male friend.”

        Robbie Williams doing the same thing but as a Natural doing it to just fuck around instead of as a specific pickup tactic:

        Robbie isn’t even touching her and she melts into a blubbering mess. You can see how this overlaps into that “imminent danger of being fucked” idea. It’s not because he’s a celebrity, you can do this to girls you’ve just met at the bar, try it lol Hell Tyler and Julien from RSD sometimes open literally without talking for the first few minutes, just getting in her space and staring her down.

        For you, because you’re new, I wouldn’t do a lot of the blatant stuff with like, your social circle girls/friends…that’s why we stress going out and cold approaching randoms, ’cause you’ll probably weird chicks out for a while lol And that’s fine if they’re randoms at the bar you’ll never really hang out with again, but it can fuck up your social circle.

        So for you, do all of this shit Gambler’s talking about with random cold approach girls…but with girls in your social circle, stick to focusing on body language and eye contact and learning to build a deep connection just looking into their eyes…making a “bond” with them, you know?

        Down the road this skill will help you create what we call a “Bubble of Love” lol where when you’re talking to someone everything else in the world seems to just fade to black like there’s just a spotlight on the two of you and the other person feels like you two are the only people in the world. Guys like Bill Clinton, Steve Jobs, etc. are legendary for their “Reality Distortion Field” which is just this “Bubble of Love” concept except they apply it to everyone they interact with instead of just girls.

        This is part of why people in real life trust me REALLY quickly. They’ll open up to me about super personal shit and I can find out pretty much anything I want to about people because I’m combining leading the conversation where I want it to go with this “Bubble of Love” where they feel super special and like we have this amazing deep connection and feel like we’ve known eachother for years even though we just met a few minutes ago. This is useful for bonding with guys and girls.

        “I also noticed that I lose state pretty quickly.”

        Right now your state is probably based on external results. So when you’re getting good feedback from girls, you feel great, but if you get bad feedback or if the girl just isn’t giving you much to work with in general, your state dies because it’s like “ah shit, I don’t think she likes me, so I can’t feel good. And my buddy’s girl over there clearly likes HIM, so fuck, I must be a loser (etc. etc. big negative state-destroying mental spiral)”.

        Don’t stress this too much for now, honestly. It’s something you’ll work on down the road when you’re more Advanced and you’re getting a lot of success because overall it’s healthy to learn to base your state internally instead of externally, but as a guy who started out from scratch I know that chasing that external validation gets you to actually approach and make moves and work on your game so I say fuck it, don’t worry about fixing that for a couple years, it’s not something that’s going to hamper you at the start here aside from giving you frustrating nights now and then. Fix one or two things at a time, you know?

        One thing that might help is to get in the mindset of “I can’t control whether a girl likes me, that’s out of my control, but I can control whether I approach her, or whether I escalate the situation, or whether I try to kiss her, or whether I go for her phone number…so as long as I’m taking action, then that’s pretty awesome, because that’s something I can control and feel good that I’m doing, even if the girl doesn’t like me or it doesn’t work out.”

        But again I wouldn’t stress this one much, I’m only addressing it so it’s in the back of your head a couple years down the road. 🙂

        “I don’t know what it is about my approach, but I really tried damned hard to just follow the identity building advice. What resulted was a ton of shit-talking from the women.”

        🙂 This is actually a good thing. It means you’re trying to work on your identity, and what’s happening is that you’re working on it but not there yet, so girls and guys are picking up on “this guy is trying to come off like he’s Such and Such but there’s something off about it, he doesn’t seem to really BE Such and Such”. So what happens is they subconsciously try to test you to see if you’re actually this guy.

        It’s like the puppy with a big bark. You KNOW the little puppy is just pretending to be big and scary but it’s not really a threat and so instinctively you want to go “rarr!!” and step toward it like you’re going to attack and it skitters back and hides behind someone’s leg while it keeps barking furiously at you. It’s just cute and funny and totally incongruent.

        But then you run into a lion, and the thing isn’t even doing anything. It’s just slowly walking around surveying it’s surroundings…but you know to stay the fuck away from it, because you know if you test it it’ll bite your fucking head off lol That’s essentially what congruency is.

        So for a while here, while you build your identity (this could take months or years, hell, my identity is pretty rock solid now but there are still aspects as I gain more life experience where I learn “okay this is how I feel about this topic” and solidify a little more), you’re going to get a ton of testing from people. This sucks but there’s no way around it lol It’s like learning to ride a bicycle, you’re gonna fall off and skin your knees a few times, that’s just how it goes, until your skills solidify.

        But as your identity solidifies, you’ll get tested less and less. I very rarely get shit from people when I’m out because everything I say and do is congruent to who I am and what I think/believe, and I have that congruency because I’ve spent so much time interacting with so many different people in so many different situations and environments and different types of people, that I know myself extremely well…which comes back to what I said before about how people with strong identities have boundaries they don’t let people cross (doesn’t mean they get into a fight, they just don’t tolerate that kind of behavior and let people know or stop hanging out with those people). That all comes from experience putting yourself in different situations.

        That’s also why people who go backpacking through Europe solo and such, tend to come back with a lot stronger an Identity…they were forced to learn to rely on themselves and handle different problems and situations and they were basically forced to forge their Identity to survive, especially in a place where they don’t speak the local language.

        Society these days is built on making us all repress our feelings trying not to offend anyone else, and coddling us through growing up to try to keep us from harm or “feeling bad” and the end result is that we become “adults”, but we don’t become “men” because we never really HAD to. A lot of PUA is just forcing ourselves through that process…you can gain confidence and stuff through other means, like climibing a mountain or backpacking around or starting a small business or whatever, but pickup is a fun method to build it through because, well, it involves getting pussy. lol I’d rather chat some cute chicks up and get laid than climb a mountain.

        (incidentally, from what I’ve seen it looks like the MGTOW are actually in alignment with PUAs in this area, in that MGTOWs are basically forcing themselves through the “grow into being a man” process they missed out on earlier in life, except that they’re purposely choosing a path that avoids male-female relationships…in a way, while I think it’s a bit of a waste to avoid learning to handle relationship stuff because I love women, I can respect their underlying idea of “focus on doing shit for you as a man, not to impress women”)

        “The guys I actually seemed to get along great with, though.”

        Guys tend to be more forgiving of incongruency and often are just oblivious to it because they aren’t as socialized as women who are playing crazy social dynamic games all the way back in elementary school and tend to have a much more finely toned radar for this stuff since for them it can mean the difference between finding a husband or being raped and tossed in an alley.

        “Me: It was this little midget lady and her tall boyfriend….you didn’t see it?”

        Honestly as a short guy I would avoid talking about height related topics at all unless she brings it up. Like I’m an older guy now (early 30s) and I’m often approaching girls I know are in the 18-early 20s age range where I know the age topic is going to be polarizing…even if it’s blatantly obvious that I’m way older than them, I don’t bring it up unless she brings it up and then I address it quick with a line and change the conversation to something more productive. Same goes with when I was younger and going cougar-hunting now and then, it’s clear that I’m way younger than them, but I know that logically talking about age is going to make them screen me out or feel self-conscious about their own age, so I just never talked about it.

        Once you set the frame that you view the world through height, like it’s something that’s relevant to you, she’s going to view the world that way too because what you feel, she feels. Whereas if you seem basically oblivious to even the CONCEPT of height existing, she won’t give it much thought either (unless it’s really a big deal for her, which isn’t nearly as common as most people think, usually the guys getting screened for that shit are boring/lame and she’s actively looking for a reason to reject the guy and height is an easy one to go with because the guy can’t be like “Well I’ll grow 10 inches and MAKE you love me then!!!” lol).

        One of my short buddies that does well with chicks doesn’t even really get the idea that a tall girl and short guy couple is strange. He’s not oblivious to it as a notion that exists in society, but he’s been with enough girls taller than him and flirts with tons of taller girls (since most of them are taller than him lol) that he has so many reference experiences of it not mattering that it’s not a part of his outlook. As a result he gets a lot less height shit-testing because girls pick up that it’s not something he’s insecure/nervous about or sees as any kind of detriment.

        Same concept works with anything else, like acne, having a stain on your shirt, not having a job, etc.

        Anyway, this is just something I wanted to mention because I know you’re a short dude and if this is one of your standard openers I’d change it up a bit to avoid the subject of height.

        “Me: (not going well, may as well just say the dumbest shit I can think of and get the fuck outta here; straightens posture) Actually….I’m from the future.”

        lol’ed. Good on you for sticking in there. A lot of guys eject early when they don’t get an obvious positive response and a lot of times those sets can be turned around with some solid game down the road. Even though this one didn’t really work out in that you’re probably not going to fuck the girls, you got a fuck-ton of experience handling social pressure and pushing through awkwardness. That’s stuff that’s going to help you down the road…Like Heartiste’s recent article on Naturals, where they seem oblivious to the idea that approaching a girl should be “scary”, they just have a lot of reference experience of pushing through awkwardness and not dying so their brain says “ehh there’s not really anything to worry about dude, go for it, you’re the man!”

        “Her: Well I thought that they’d be taller in the future?”

        There’s actually a lot of little places where you could turn this around. They’re definitely being bitches to you lol but it’s not necessarily that they’re bad people, it’s again that they can tell they can talk shit to you and fuck with your frame because it’s not super solid yet…even though you handled yourself pretty decently all things considered, like shrugging your shoulders instead of trying to qualify yourself, not apologizing for the stuff you say, etc.

        A lot of guys will be like “oh you should say something like “Well you’re ugly in the present!” ohh burrn you totally got that bitch, bro!!!” but that’s a reactive low value response where you’re falling into her frame. By not being phased by it and staying calm, you’re actually displaying solid value. Down the road when you get tested a lot, you’ll have a bunch of routine comebacks for these kinds of things.

        One of my short buddies is a monster with shit-tests…he’s really out-going and worked as a bartender for years, so he’s been the center of attention most of his life, so he’s gotten shit-tests from people his entire life and has heard EVERY short joke in the fucking book a million times. So when anyone tries to give him shit on his height he has a dozen different responses to whatever they say that are super witty, play to the crowd and tool the person, make them feel silly for trying to give him shit, etc. etc. and because he handles these shit-tests so smoothly and flawlessly from experience, the guys all want to befriend him (like “ohh wow lol you burned me good, shit lol” and “oh man you got my buddy good lol lemme buy you a shot that was awesome”) and the girls attraction for him spikes because he’s either called them out hardcore and made them feel silly and they need to qualify themselves to not look stupid, or he’s tooled the guy in their group that gave him shit and he’s suddenly higher value than those guys, so they’re attracted because he’s showing he can handle himself, even with the alphas in her group (who end up qualifying themselves to my buddy or buying him shots or whatever).

        Thing is, no one shit-tests the quiet shy Nice Guy with no identity who stands in a corner trying to blend into the background while his buddies are approaching girls. He’s insignificant. When you start getting shit-tested, that means you’re popping up on people’s radar. So get used to it lol

        I get shit-tested a LOT, especially because my Identity is the in-your-face asshole type with girls that talks about sexual topics right away etc. So girls test me right away to find out if I’m really like that or not, but I’ve got a lot of experience with all the types of shit-tests I’ll get so I just brush them off and my value goes up.

        So what I’m saying is: This’ll fix itself in time, keep going out. 🙂

        “I ignore them for a minute or two to talk to the guys.”

        Good stuff. Solid move. This is part of why the guys liked you, you’re not a predator going after their girls, you’re just a cool guy who’s shooting the shit till his friends show up. This is also part of why the girls test you more, because they feel like there’s something incongruent/off about you, but the guys in their group don’t seem to care and they feel like they need to “expose” you, know what I mean? Like if you knew someone your friend was dating was shit, but no one else believed you, you’d be frustrated and be like “ahhh no one can tell but me!! Can’t they see it too??”

        “Me: (Trying for misheard innuendo) …you really like dick?”

        lol’ed. You basically said to them “okay girls, shit-test me HARD, let’s get this battle started! :D” by doing something so blatantly offensive and impossible to ignore. Which is actually a GOOD thing when you can handle shit-tests, because you’ll basically piss them off, they’ll test you, you’ll pass the tests flawlessly, and they’ll become attracted because of how you passed the tests. Right now shit-tests are tricky for you so this could go either way 50/50 from here, but the important thing to understand is that you can 100% recover and build attraction from saying shit like this even though they react offended and pissed off lol

        But really, good on you for doing it. Because you’re “knocking her off the fence”.

        Here’s an hour-long video of Tyler explaning the idea in depth (important part starts at 4:35):

        I actually do this kind of thing on purpose because I’d rather a girl shit-tests me so I can pass those tests and build attraction fast, than just think I’m a “nice guy” and not test me at all and we get stuck in that gay friend zone vibe lol

        “Her Friend: (Gut check mode) Uhhhhhhhhhh noooo….and if there were a dick around, I’m sure you’d be all on that shit anyway.”

        Here come the shit-tests lol The two girls will just gang up on you here and generally the guys will go quiet because they don’t want to rock the boat with the girls to defend some random guy they don’t even know.

        From here you have three options:

        1) get sucked into their frame, apologize for what you said, backtrack, defend yourself, explain yourself, try to logically convince them not to be mad at you, qualify yourself, etc. etc. You know by now I’m sure that this isn’t a good option lol

        2) agree and amplify, use some cocky-funny, tool them with something smooth and witty, basically keep your wits about you, keep calm, remain completely unphased, and just laugh off what they say. If an 18yo girl at the bar says “I hate you”, it hurts. If your 5 year old neice says “I hate you” and pouts it’s cute and you go “lol awww” and are completely unphased by it. So this option is basically treating her like she’s your 5yo neice or little sister, like what she tried to burn you with was silly and she just amuses you trying to give you shit. This shows a lot of confidence and it passes the shit-tests and builds attraction (often causing more shit-tests until she finally decides “okay this guy is solid, I can’t get to him……so I LIKE him!”) lol

        3) completely ignore it, like you did, shrugging or raising your eyebrow and smirking. This, like option 2, shows high value. It’s also a lot easier than option 2 because you don’t have to come up with something witty etc. so there’s less room for error. The only reason why I choose option 2 over option 3 is because option 3 doesn’t really let you express a strong personality…it nullifies the shit-test, but it’s like, in terms of advancing the pickup towards sex, it only advances it an inch, whereas a solid option 2 handling can advance it feet or miles lol because you’re demonstrating more personality and especially in an environment like a nightclub where you’re talking to a girl who spend 4 hours getting herself all dolled up and is full of herself cocky and feels like the princess of the club etc. etc. you can need that kind of value bitch-slap (lol) to stand out from all the other guys.

        The other problem with option 3 is that it doesn’t STOP the shit-tests. A solid option 2 can stop the shit-tests cold and 180 the interaction instantly. But option 3 makes her go “hmm that one brushed right off him, okay I’ll try again then”. It’s like the difference in a fight between deflecting an attack and exchanging a blow. Just deflecting and standing there makes them go “okay I’ll swing again”, but exchanging a blow makes them go “hmm maybe I don’t want to do that anymore” lol

        You’ll develop option 2 over time (you’ll fuck up a TON and say a LOT of shit that you’re like “wow that was terrible and I knew it as I was saying it but couldn’t stop it from coming out of my mouth lol”, like the “I’m from the future” where you’re pretty much like wtf was that??), but option 3 is solid right now so mix it up depending on your mood/state.

        “Her: ……you know, I could see that.”

        See, this is them ganging up and keeping taking swings because you “deflected”. Again it’s not a bad thing, you deflect enough shit and they’ll give up…it’s just that if you look at attraction as making her feel a wide range of emotions in a short amount of time, option 2 does that more than option 3. Again not a big deal, either way works, and both are 100000x better than option 1.

        “Me: (Takes a risk) you liking dick?”

        lol’ed. Frame control battle here. This is essentially you saying “Nope, I’m not gonna’ apologize for what I said before even though I know you want me to feel like I should. In fact I’m gonna rub your face in it some more because you’re shit-testing me lol Not a single fuck was given this day! :)” which will cause them to shit-test you again and try to control the frame and make you feel bad.

        “Her: No, you being gay.”

        This isn’t even witty or clever on her part. It’s like going “noooo you’re stoooopid, you’re stoooopid” in an arguement. She just figures because you’re still incongruent in general, that you’ll eventually cave to her frame. This can go back and forth and fuck your state up bad and cave your frame and result in exploding in your face…

        “Me: Does gay me wear sunglasses?
        Her: (laughs)”

        …but you actually do alright here and instead of getting into a logical debate you just basically shrug and redirect the subject into something silly which probably doesn’t come off super congruent yet (I’ll say stuff like “Look just because Bob (whatever her male friend who approves of me’s name is) and I were swordfighting in the bathroom earlier doesn’t make us gay……Now the blowjobs, THAT part was a little gay.” and they’ll all love me after).

        So you’re really not doing as horrible as you probably felt in the moment here. It’s like you’re making a building and I can see you’ve GOT the right materials out and stuff, they’re not necessarily being arranged in the best way to make a really solid house, but you’re building something that could at least keep the rain out.

        This is also making the guys like you, because you’re getting thoroughly shit-tested by these girls but you’re handling yourself okay. It’s why people like guys like Russell Brand or Joe Rogan, because just watching them handle shit-tests is awesome. It’s that thing of like “wow I would’ve shit my pants at that and this guy just shrugged it off, or turned it around and totally owned this girl lol awesome”. So they start to root for you.

        The snowball effect of all this is that because the guys like you, that makes the girls who hated you, until the guys liked you, start to like you more because guys liking you is a sign of higher value. How’s that for confusing lol This snowball effect is why goading girls into shit-testing you can spike attraction fast…Mystery knew exactly what he was doing with his insane peacocking, he’d get shit-tested non-stop by everyone about that, but he had solid comebacks for everything and knew how to escalate out of it, so he’d win over the guys and the bitchy girls that gave him shit would turn around and start liking him because he was owning the group and his value was spiking up.

        Ironically, if everyone is pleasant and friendly and no one gives Mystery shit when he goes into a group, he just comes off as a weird guy in a crazy outfit lol He’s almost relying on going so over the top that he knows everyone will have to shit-test him because he’s so in their face. These days PUAs don’t peacock as much (the RSD guys all look/dress like normal guys) but they instigate shit-tests through what they say/do instead.

        This comes back to the option 2 thing…if no one shit-tests Mystery’s weird outfit, he doesn’t get to demonstrate his personality. It’s like being only a counter-boxer where if the guy attacks you first you can own him but if he doesn’t attack you can’t get a hit on him…you need to goad him into attacking you by sticking your jaw out or giving him an easy opening to try to get him to give you a chance to show your moves.

        See how these concepts all overlap eachother lol

        “Her friend: No, he just has sex with a lot of men. (they both laugh…feel like I’m crashing and burning)”

        Still trying to shake your frame here, again this isn’t even funny, but now they’re teaming up on you like jackals.

        “Male friend: That’s not really such a bad thing. Gay men dress really well.”

        Boom! A life preserver thrown by the guy in the group to the guy treading water. This is him basically saying “lol c’mon lay off girls, this guys cool, I approve of him”. Your value actually goes up slightly from thing and usually at this point the girls will keep shit-testing but they’ll be a little less vicious about it…like they might not want to fuck you or anything and be actively attracted, but often their shit-testing will go from “extremely hostile” to just “neutral ball-busting” where you haven’t won them over, but they aren’t trying to constantly bitch-slap you with hostility.

        “Her: (takes a look at my clothes, makes an ‘they’re okay/standard’ gesture with her hand, then laughs and shakes her head) Yeah, then I guess he’s not gay.”

        Again this isn’t even funny lol But she’s in an environment where everything will treat her like anything stupid she says is genius and brilliant because she has tits so it goes to her head. Again this is a shit-test though, where you can display option 1, 2, or 3. You actually handle it with option 2:

        “Me: (figure I’ve totally just blown this exchange, so I just shrug and try to power through) ….am I getting some fucking sunglasses or what?
        (Gets solid laughter)”

        You could’ve stopped at shrugging it off (option 3) but you demonstrate some personality with your “fucking sunglasses or what?” comment lol At this point you really could turn this 100% around with some solid game…like it’s not an optimal situation, but there’s the framework here to turn it around. You’d basically have to do it by passing a bunch more shit-tests flawlessly, winning the guys over, other stuff like social proof (imagine if right now a hot waitress came over and hugged you and said hi to you, the girls’ minds would explode), that’s why we have a ton of different tactics/strategies for this stuff…but you’ll handle this in time. Mystery Method was basically designed for this scenario (interacting and winning over a group of people you don’t know).

        “Me (just generally addressing the group): So, is it scrunchie or ‘scoonchie,’ for the company?”

        lol far as conversation topics go, if scrunchies is something you’ve actually wondered about, that’s cool, if not then in general go for topics you’re actually curious/interested about even if those topics aren’t things that girls are supposed to think are cool. The main reason for this is just that it helps with your congruency…like a nerd talking about Warcraft can actually work out because he’s enthusiastic and passionate about it. I bring up sexual topics because I think it’s fun conversation and hate talking about boring shit like work or the weather etc. lol This comes down to the idea of “self amusement”…saying/doing what makes YOU laugh or entertains you instead of what you think they’ll be interested in.

        Not saying this was a bad move or anything, this is just a general tip for your conversations. 🙂

        “Her: Where would you have even seen that?”

        lol it’s just such a strange conversation topic to bring up. At the same time though, if you hold your frame and have the mindset of “who cares where I saw it answer the fucking question already jeezus, c’mon, focus Woman lol”

        “(Her and her friend proceed to lose their shit over this — I don’t really get it, but I figure I’ve made a huge tactical error here)”

        There’s some shit that triggers fucking crazy “lose their shit” reactions with girls. The “Best Friends Test” was HUGELY popular with PUAs back in the early pickup days (you basically say you can tell they’re best friends because they make the same facial expressions and before they say anything they look at eachother first…which they ALWAYS look at eachother right after you say that, so you then instantly bust on them with SEE you just did it again lol They lose their fucking MINDS at this). Calling them Powerpuff Girls (back when PPG was popular) and naming one of them as the Good Girl and the other as the Bad Girl usually got the same kind of reaction.

        The funny part is I don’t think anyone ever really even looked into WHY they shit their pants over these things lol We just knew “this will make their brain explode” and would use it. Personally I think it’s just something they never in a million years expect a guy to understand let alone acknowledge or call them out on it so they freak out because you just dove way into chick-territory where no man is supposed to have breached lol

        Anyway, my point here is who the fuck knows why that blew their mind. For all you know they both have giant scrunchie collections at home and were just discussing which scrunchie to wear for an hour before they came to the bar and you just stumbled on it blindly lol

        “Her friend: You’re so dumb! (to be fair, said in a playful way) It’s scrunchie!”

        They’re less hostile now, even if they don’t want to actually fuck you or don’t even really LIKE you.

        “I mean, the way they say it and the way it feels, the teasing just doesn’t come off as overtly flirty to me. It just seems like they’re ripping on me. ”

        They basically just “don’t hate” you as much as the start now lol so ya they ARE ripping on you instead of flirting, but considering the shit-show you walked into and what you’re trying to work on and everything, don’t beat yourself up over it. You did good sticking through it all. This has all been pretty rocky/shaky as an interaction, but it’s just the nature of the beast while you’re solidifying your Identity and becoming congruent. Things will go a lot smoother down the road when shit-tests don’t phase you and you come off more solid.

        “Guy: (after a group laugh over something I said) Man….can we just like, we should just like make a cartoon out of you.”

        lol this is a tricky one because it can actually be a legit compliment. It DOES mean that you’re more of an entertainer than a “legit threat of fucking the girls”…but if you joined the group with a super “I’m going to bang your women” vibe, the guys would’ve tried to get rid of you. It’s two ends of a spectrum, you know? The Mystery Method way of handling groups tended to start out being an entertainer, then once they’ve hooked the set or one of the girls, isolate her from the group and transition into being a sexual threat. The modern direct RSD way where you go super sexual direct right off the bat is great on solo girls or small all-girl sets, etc. but it’s not solid group dynamics game. The MM way would work really well for you in this scenario you’re in here, sitting at a bar/lounge table with some strangers in an enviro where you can talk, whereas RSD type stuff is better at like a crazy elbow-to-elbow loud dance club.

        Generally with AMOGs, try to get into the mindset that everything is a compliment, even if it’s logically probably not…VS the opposite mindset where everything is an insult/AMOG-attempt, even if it’s logically probably not. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll “win” or get the girl or win over the group or whatever, but it’s a healthier mindset because a lot of times when people tease you but see that you laugh it off and they can’t shake you, they respect you for it and then legitimately warm up to you. That’s why Naturals give eachother a TON of shit…and a lot of beta computer nerd guys who don’t socialize much hang out with Naturals and the Naturals give them the usual ribbing they give eachother and the nerd guy is like “god those guys are such jerks” and his state goes to shit and he googles AMOG techniques etc. when really the Naturals were just joking around because they know none of them would get upset by being teased a bit so it’s actually unexpected to them that the nerd guy would be phased…make sense?

        Male social dynamics/interaction is like a whole fucking separate topic in general lol Especially when there are girls around.

        “Me: I dunno man, I’m pretty sure my lats are too huge to be drawn (stupid line, they can’t all be winners I guess….)”

        lol you know it’s no good so I don’t have to say it. This is basically you saying “ah shit, I feel bad because of your comment so I’m going to qualify myself to try to save face by bragging about something”. It’s the equivalent of the rich guy trying to qualify himself by bragging about his Ferrari…it just comes off like he feels insecure. Add to that the dynamic that it’s a male to male interaction where you have that “who’s the alpha, who’s reacting to who” dynamic at play and it kills your value quick.

        Not a big deal, like I say you know it wasn’t good and probably knew as soon as you said it. For something like that I’ll usually laugh and say like “lol I’m just drunk, this redbull has gone right to my head, ignore everything I say lol”…like I’m not taking it as an insult, and I’m not feeling insecure because I don’t mind self-depreciating a bit and I’m acting like a redbull is making me drunk so I’m basically just spouting nonsense and self-amusing which is like option 2 way up above where I’m just laughing off a shit-test and demonstrating some personality.

        “Guy: No I’m serious, you could have your own little animated series or something.”

        This says to me that he’s legitimately complimenting you, not trying to tool you. He may come OFF as having higher value to the girls from giving you his approval like that, but it doesn’t seem like it’s something he’s actively doing on purpose in a hostile way, like there isn’t an ill intention behind it. If he was trying to be a dick he’d probably have made fun of your lat drawing comment because it would be really easy to tool you from that, but he just kind of went “no no seriously”

        Thing is that still means you’re being an entertainer to him, like you suspect…so it doesn’t mean you’re going to get the girls or anything, but again if you’re working a mixed set like that, being an entertainer till later in the night isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

        And to hit up your posts below this:

        “Although, at one point I did make a little face with a chuckle and was like ‘hoooo….cold,’ and her friend went out of her way to say she was just kidding. So….they seem to not -dislike- me.”

        Ya, see, they might not want to fuck you, but you won them over enough to stop being so amazingly hostile. That’s something you should be pleased with in terms of your overall progress. 🙂

        “Well, I’m like 30 pounds overweight now :D”

        Like I say, stick to the gym stuff, it’ll help you feel good internally when you like your body more, plus it means achieving a goal you’ve set which is a good confidence boost as a man and builds your character.

        Notice though, that that whooooole interaction above wouldn’t have gone any different whether you had a 6-pack under your shirt or whether you had a big baggy winter jacket on hiding your body completely. All the stuff I explained and advice I gave on how you could turn things around, and the videos of Gambler and Robbie Williams staring those girls down, none of it has anything to do with “make sure you lose 2% more body fat before you try this”, you know? This is why a lot of guys who get into bodybuilding purely hoping it’ll get them girls, end up depressed and frustrated Forever Aloners because they don’t get that in an interaction like this, how they feel about themselves has more to do with building attraction than how they look.

        As I mentioned before, it sounds like you’re working out for your own approval instead of for girl’s approval though, so I’m not real worried about you there.

        “Plus, I’m a manlet, and half-black (although no one ever thinks I’m part black).”

        lol it’s an old joke but if I was half-black I’d be using the “it’s my lower half 😉 lol” bit.

        You should have plenty to read, think about, watch, etc. from this for now. If you get some free time, hit up YouTube for the Mystery Method series someone posted up. Mystery’s a little weird as a speaker and some of the routines in it are pretty hokey/try-hard/over-used now, but like 99% of it is still rock solid psychology for working groups.

        But more importantly go out and get some more practice under your belt. 🙂 Good luck!

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      • Most of our actions are not only inexplicable to us they’re incomprehensible. You did a great job breaking down this social interaction. Thanks yareally.

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      • Ditto. 10/10 would read again.

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  41. OT but worth a discussion or a post from heartiste

    Is the Training of Women Doctors A Waste of Money?

    UK GP shortage to worsen as young doctors switch to part-time work.

    UK More than half of all students taking up scarce places at medical school are women – yet, after 10 years, 60 per cent of them have given up, leaving a huge hole in the NHS. The same goes for teaching. Alice Thomson – Daily Telegraph 27/06/03

    60% of women doctors will give up their ‘careers’ within about 10 years.

    The continuing deterioration of the National Health Service despite the enormous extra sums of money being put into it by the taxpayer is largely thanks to the training of more and more women to become doctors in the place of men.

    the requirement to give women ‘equal opportunities’ … is leading to far worse conditions and shortfalls in the NHS

    In areas such as medicine, the requirement to give women ‘equal opportunities’ by demanding that medical schools try to train as many women as they do men to become doctors is leading to far worse conditions and shortfalls in the NHS – a service that is already failing the country abysmally.

    The fact that so many of these women doctors will take out years from their profession in order to have children and to look after them (with some never returning) is a major drain on a system that is already unable to cope.

    In theory, it sounds great to have as many women doctors working in the NHS as men. In practice, however, the consequence is that EVERYONE has to wait a good deal longer to be dealt with, and the entire service is considerably less efficient.

    And with waiting lists already far too long even for urgent surgical operations, the price for this ‘equality’ is rather high. And it costs some people their health and some people their lives.

    Most people have a great deal of sympathy with the view that women should be permitted to become doctors working for the NHS if they have the requisite abilities – even if they do log out of the system to bring up families. But there is a price to be paid! In the case of the NHS, everyone who uses it pays a price – particularly the old, the young, the weak, the vulnerable and the sick.

    In fact, the most needy of all pay the price!

    And these are mostly women.

    many times more women are negatively affected by an impoverished NHS than there are women doctors.

    Indeed, many times more women are negatively affected by an impoverished NHS than there are women doctors.

    Indeed, all women are affected by this.

    Further, of course, all of us will need medical treatment at some stage in our lives, and so all of us will suffer from the adverse effects of an NHS that is greatly diminished by the low long-term career aspirations of a relatively small number of women.

    Furthermore, the training of doctors is a very expensive business that stretches well beyond the five years that students spend at medical school. And with 60% of women doctors giving up their careers within ten years, the training of women to become doctors is largely a waste of taxpayers’ money.

    ++

    Is Medical School a Worthwhile Investment for Women?

    The average female primary-care physician would have been financially better off becoming a physician assistant.

    Over the last quarter century, women have been earning college and professional degrees in record numbers. In 1976, women earned only 45 percent of bachelor’s degrees in the United States; by 2006 that had increased to 58 percent. During that same interval, women have made even larger gains in advanced degrees. For example, in 1976 women constituted only 24 percent of first year medical students. By 2006, that number which doubled to 48 percent.

    Despite these gains in education, a number of recent studies find that women’s incomes lag those of men. In a study of MBA students from a top program, Marianne Bertrand, Claudia Goldin, and Larry Katz found that while men and women had similar earnings at the outset of their careers ($115,000 per year for women versus $130,000 per year for men), within ten years of graduation men outearned women by $150,000 per year. Similar income gaps have been found for doctors and lawyers.

    This raises two interesting and uncomfortable questions. First, why do women earn less? Second, if women benefit less from these high-end professional degrees — but pay the same high costs in time and money to acquire them — have their degrees actually paid off? That is, would women have been better off not getting those degrees?

    In a study being published this month in the Journal of Human Capital, we try to shed light on these questions by looking closely at doctors in primary-care fields and a plausible alternative career for anyone entering medical school — Physician Assistants. Physician assistants (PAs) are medical professionals who diagnose and treat illness under the supervision of a physician and who may, in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, write prescriptions. The first PA program started in 1965 at Duke University, and was initially designed to provide civilian medical training to field medics returning from Vietnam.

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  42. That’s a tragedy.

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  43. 1. Why get married?
    2. Why have children?
    3. Alimony? I don’t understand. Men are women are equals! Complete and total equals! The Democrats constantly tell us so! So why should a women get alimony simply because she tricked some fool into marrying her? Let her get a fucking JOB, just like a man would have to. Let her go into a combat and get killed or disfigured like a man would have to. Then we can BEGIN to talk about women being equals, and NOT BEFORE.
    4. Child support is of course different. If you absolutely had to replicate yourself to stroke your ego, you are responsible for paying for it.

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  44. Now this scene makes absolute sense.

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  45. You are right CH, that a women cutting a guy off at the knees financially, will limit his chances to find another woman. So the financially shackled man will have to consider one of three different paths:
    1) give up on women completely and just pursue his own interests…MGTOW
    2) look for a different type of woman (that has her hypergamy under control) and has the capacity to see something in her man that she cherishes other than his ability to provide fun and excitement, Range Rovers, spa treatments and Louis Vuitton purses 24/7. I don’t believe in Unicorns, but I would like to believe such a woman exists.
    3) use game to bed women when he feels like it, while being tied down to none of them

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  46. Equity court would be better than Family court – Robbryder has YouTube vids explaining how to.

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  47. The first mistake men make is to sign divorce papers – never sign divorce papers!

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  48. One of my favorite alimony stories:

    A Delaware County judge issued an order to jail Mr. Chadwick for failing to deposit $2.5 million in a court-controlled account that would be used to pay alimony to his ex-wife, Barbara “Bobbie” Applegate.

    Mr. Chadwick contended he no longer had the money, saying he lost it in a bad overseas investment. The judge believed he hid the money after divorce proceedings were started. Court-ordered investigations after he was jailed turned up no money. (…)
    In yesterday’s ruling, Judge Joseph P. Cronin said Mr. Chadwick had the ability to comply with the 1995 court order to make the bank deposit and willfully refused to do so. But, after 14 years, Judge Cronin said, the contempt order had lost its coercive effect and instead had become punitive.

    http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/09192/983301-454.stm

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  49. The first men’s rights organizations (1920s) in the USA were anti-alimony associations
    SEE: “The Alimony Racket: Quotations”
    http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2011/09/alimony-racket-quotations.html

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