How To Respond To Girls Who Call Out Game

File under: Meta game. A possible growing trend of women calling out men for using game, or for thinking about using game, may be infiltrating mating nooks and crannies. Days of Broken Arrows sounds the alarm:

I was window shopping and came across an OKCupid profile where a woman said, at the end, something like “And don’t try that Neil Strauss shit on me. It won’t work.”

She’s in the 8-9 category, so I thought this might merit an email to you. What do you do when a woman is onto game. I’ll send you info if you’re interested.

The war between the sexes never ends, it just evolves new weaponry. If more men employ the advantages of game, more women will find new shit tests to filter out the players from the poseurs. There will never be a time in human history when girls will offer the average man access to their pussies without at least putting up a figurative fight.

A simple, and effective, response to a girl with defense shields at maximum power against players using game is this: agree and amplify. For example:

Woman who was burned by players in the past: “And don’t try that Neil Strauss shit on me. It won’t work.”

Despicable You: “Too late. It’s working right now. Aaaaaand….. you’re hypnotized.”


“So negs are out, then? Good. I like to cut to the chase. How about we just drunkenly bump and grind.”


“Hold on, I think this is the part where I’m supposed to neg you.”


“Phew, that’s a relief. I was hoping you were the kind of girl who’d rather take long walks on the beach and let guys buy her flowers and shit.”


“Listen, this stuff came with a money-back guarantee. Don’t make me waste it on a nice girl.”

Or, more edgily for the truly stuck-up, asshole-loving cunts:

“It worked on your mom. I figure the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.”

Basically, you’re reframing what could be a negative (“You’re a creep using mind tricks. Now apologize for it.”) to a positive (“Ha, ha, this guy is in on it. He gets it. Very smooth. And why am I so horny all of a sudden?”).

There are other ways to handle getting called out for using game (or getting shit tested for thinking about using game), but agree and amplify is probably the easiest countermeasure to recall instantly under social pressure, and to formulate cleverly with minimal mental effort. Other commenters have offered similar advice. YaReally suggests:

lol E-Mail her “hey, I can only stay for a minute and then I have to get back to my friends, but I need a female opinion: who do you think lies more, men or women?

Did it work? Are you dying to jump my bones? Wait, let me try page 38, there’s a really good one about how I’m supposed to make fun of your hair…”

Send it and let us know if she responds. I figure if she reads it she’ll have to respond because it’s purposely poking her buttons. I would just make fun of the whole thing if she responds and lead it into stuff like “well shit, I guess I’ll just have to try having a normal conversation with you and do that whole “get to know you and actually take an interest in you” thing…god, dating is so much work these days! I’m pretty sure the pickup book would tell me to just invite you to my sex dungeon, but how about we try a cup of coffee sometime instead lol”

And then do her in the bum.

If she’s a feminist, she deserves nothing less than unlubed bum stuffing.

There is a good chance, unfortunately, that a girl who is obnoxiously anti-game is a raging ideological feminist. If you really want to bone her because she happens to be the rare attractive feminist, don’t be dissuaded by her faux outrage. Most feminists secretly wish for a strong man to confidently charm and dominate them into mewing submission. Since feminists are surrounded on an hourly basis by manboobed, asskissing sycophants who dream their crotch thimbles will someday receive a pity tug from one of them, your unapologetic, reckless alphaness will be a breath of fresh air reinvigorating their forlorn furrows.


  1. She mentions the Strauss book?! Red Pill wisdom will evolve faster than women can figure out. Besides, who cares what they say? We all know it’s the actions that should be followed.


    • Exactly.

      Particular techniques out of Neil Strauss or wherever are to sex what a slapshot or spin move are to ice hockey.

      Game is to sex what experienced, trained play is to ice hockey.

      Who would be surprised or somehow alarmed to observe that developing a heightened aggression and technique is basic to high-level ice hockey success?

      Panicking over “oh she knows my Neil Strauss!!!!!” is like Alex Ovechkin worrying that his opponents have seen a slapshot before. It just doesn’t make any sense to red pill types.


      • It’s called the spin o Rama. And the goalies are usually at the ready for it so , it doesn’t work as often as it did the first hundred times, but they still do get deked out by it occasionally


      • It’s called the “spin o rama” for the same reason stupid words get added to the dictionary: because I hate you. I refuse to call it that.


      • Good analogy. Well said!


    • It’s all about comfort. If it makes you get uncomfortable, you lose. If you are comfortable, you win.


      • Are there parts of the country where women are more or less likely to know about game ? I imagine a lot of women are probably aware of game in cities like DC,LA, and Miami. Am I right ?


      • Yep. Dead on. PUAs call this concept “what you feel, she feels” and it underlies a TON of other game concepts (like say if you’re peacocking you’ll get shit-tested…if the tests make you uncomfortable, she’ll think you should be uncomfortable, if you blow thru the tests and feel awesome, she’ll think you’re awesome).

        Very important concept. Women and betas react to their environment and ping off it to figure out how to feel. An alpha male is unreactive and self-amusing and doesn’t ping off anyone else for how to feel.


      • One could also say its about being internally directed versus externally directed. That is really what taking the red pill is about. Learning to make that shift in your own mind and modes of thinking about who you are and where you fit in to the matrix. In my mind, it is what ultimately defines a man.


  2. What if you completely ignore it while still using canned material afterward?


    • My opinion is that Heartiste is right here. If you ignore it she will think she got you and the chances that any of these girls has actually read the book and will recognize the canned responses is slim. A big cocky grin and then offering her an intentionally poorly acted canned response might be funny, though.


  3. I game my wife all the time. She reads this blog and thinks she has game figured out. They don’t even recognize game if it’s done right.


    • I’ve seen the hamster spin wildly and utterly without self-awareness in women who read Heartiste regularly and insistently claim to know game and PUA.


    • Even women who are aware that such a thing as game exists still don’t know what it means. For example friend of a friend comments that kids are learning game at an early age, then explains that a sweaty nervous16 year old kid in the grocery store told her she had nice eyes. That is womens perception of what game is. Betas complimenting them.


      • lol also this.

        In the Gossip comments I described an AMOG tactic I’ve used a bunch that plays off the gossip concept. You think ANY girl in a million YEARS would be able to spot what I’m doing in that move, or even grasp how over-arching the move is and how many variables it covers at once and how long a duration of time it covers etc? Especially IN the moment? lol it would terrify them to get a glimpse at how in-depth real Mystery Method style pickup can be.

        Meanwhile to the guy who asks “hey where’s the bathroom?” she’ll say “what is that a neg?? That’s a neg isn’t it i know all about your “game” I read Neil Strauss!!! Get lost you player!!!” and she’ll high-five all her grrrrl-power friends and come on game comment sections and say “you guys don’t get how smart we girls are, we can spot you a mile away and will call you out instantly! Like this one time where a guy asked where the bathroom was–” like the retarded chick in this comment section doing exactly that lol


      • Understood.

        But it looks bad if bitches are now angrily waiting to reject guys for using indirect openers on them.

        That sounds like nuclear scorched earth policy.

        Most of us can’t get anywhere unless an innocent open ended question gets answered with some IOIs or with the woman qualifying herself as an interesting person, thus allowing the guy to suggest she’s earned more attention.

        So a more relevant question here would not be whether American women are now “on to game” so much as:

        Are more American women now cynically and arrogantly ready to see indirect opens, such as requests for directions, as attempts by men to meet them and seduce them?

        And, if so, are these women prepared to shoot themselves and the men in the foot by reacting with hostility to the indirect contact or, worse, ignoring the men entirely?

        Alternatively, and this could be a good thing, are American women more tuned into the idea that a man asking for directions is at least possibly interested in her and she should do more than just give the answer and keep on walking if she could be the least bit interested?


      • “And, if so, are these women prepared to shoot themselves and the men in the foot by reacting with hostility to the indirect contact or, worse, ignoring the men entirely?”

        Nah, they just act hostile because when they picture someone running game on them, they picture a sleazy creeper guy. If Brad Pitt asked “Hey, who do you think lies more, men or women?” you think they’re going to be like “pfft, get lost loser!!”? lol

        It comes down to higher-value. The same happens for us. A fatty fat saying “that’s a nice shirt” makes us think “ugh this is my lamest shirt, this gross chick is just trying to fuck me”, but a smokin’ hot 10 saying it makes us think “wow this is my lamest shirt so she’s probably just making that up but fuck it she’s hot!! :)”

        That’s why you can’t really listen to women when it comes to what’s going to work or not work for game. When they start a sentence with “If someone did that to ME, I would–” it’s them picturing a super creeper doing it.

        That’s why worrying about this is all moot if you’re intermediate+ with game…it’s just rough on the newbies because they’re the ones that are going to go up and use routines and get called out because their vibe is weird. But there’s no fast fix for this, the way you learn to calibrate is by fucking up and analyzing your fuck ups until you fuck up less and less lol


  4. Right, a womam saying don’t use game is actually saying, don’t have a personality that I find attractive.


    • lol this is the irony they don’t get. They should want guys to learn game.

      Tyler describes it well, he says basically “Learning game isn’t creepy. You know what’s creepy? NOT learning game. Because you think guys without game will just NOT approach? No, they’ll still approach, but it’ll be in this creepy lame awkward uncultivated weird way.”

      But it pisses girls off because they had a very clear system of who’s alpha and who’s beta before and now with game we can take a beta they’d have ignored and make him look like an alpha they want to fuck so suddenly they can’t trust their senses anymore.

      Ideally down the road the beta who looks like an alpha will stick to his training and eventually BECOME a legit alpha, but during that transition period there’s a whole lot of “omg I can’t believe I’m fucking this girl she’s so hot and she has no idea I’m a total nerd hahahaha” lol


  5. on August 30, 2012 at 1:42 pm The Man Who Was . . .

    You will occasionally get called out for using techniques from the seduction community, but it is so vanishingly rare that it isn’t worth worrying about. Most people are so wrapped up in their own little world that they don’t know much about anything that isn’t in their face mainstream, much less something whose media presence peaked half a decade ago. At worst, a tiny percentage of women will recognize some of the most well publicized lines from The Game. As for all the other techniques, game should be so smooth anyway that she should never notice it happening. Successful seducers, whether they have explicitly studied game or not, use the exact same techniques, so you if you are doing it right you should be indistinguishable from a natural.


    • Except, as I posited above, if bitches in some feminist regions are now more ready to be hostile toward any man who asks them where the bathroom is.


  6. on August 30, 2012 at 1:46 pm stevie tellatruth

    Just play it like that scene from “Safe House”

    Ryan Reynolds: You’re not gonna get in my head.

    Denzel Washington: I’m already in your head.


  7. If you allow a woman to switch into logical mode (i.e., Man mode), you’ve lost.

    Switch her to emotional mode and it won’t matter if you pulled a book out in front of her and tested things out.

    Hamsters = hormonal emotional mode
    Shit-talking mouths = logical man mode

    Don’t deal with a woman’s attempt at masculine logic. She is not your equal there, and her hamster will fight her own brain for superior positioning. Stroke that hamster out onto the wheel.


    • There was a thread on reddit where a woman posted a message she received on a dating site which she said made her laugh. In the comments section some tried valiantly to point out that it was a copy and pasted message from some forums and that the guy probably spammed this to many women. To the chagrin and confusion of the commentators, she actually didn’t care because she found the message entertaining.

      I’m certain there was an older Chateau post on how women will sometimes be aware of game but still not mind it because they enjoy it.


      • “There was a thread on reddit where a woman posted a message she received on a dating site which she said made her laugh”

        Which is really all the excuse you should ever need to pump and dump.


      • “I’m certain there was an older Chateau post on how women will sometimes be aware of game but still not mind it because they enjoy it.”

        This is another reason not to bother denying game. I know she’s wearing a push-up bra and makeup and heels and shit and she doesn’t really look like that when she rolls out of bed on a Tuesday, but do I care and want her to not do herself up for me? Fuck no.

        Think of how silly it would be if she was like “no these are my real eyelashes, this is how I really look by default, this isn’t makeup!!”. That’s what denying knowing about game looks like when you’re clearly running game.


      • Bad analogy.

        Denying game is more akin to a woman denying she’s had plastic surgery.


      • No, I think it’s a good analogy. Women want to make themselves appear attractive to men, just as men want to make themselves appear attractive to women.

        I think many women do understand the concept of game, but they may not understand how it applies to them. It’s kind of like you KNOW that that car salesman is just trying to get you to buy that car, but yet you really want to buy that audi. On some level, I think women know that a man is gaming her, but it just feels so right, it’s easier to not resist. Besides, it is impossible to know and recognize every type of game. Women could be familiar with some approaches, like negs, but if you start out a different way and then weave the neg into your conversation, then she might not necessarily recognize it.

        I think it is kind of funny that all these guys are trying to deny that women have any knowledge of game. It’s like the little boy in his treehouse going, “Nuh uh! You can’t come in here! No girls allowed!” So what if women know about game and understand it? Don’t be like the Redcoats; adjust to your surroundings.


      • You are stupid.

        1. A woman at and Audi dealer is OBVIOUSLY interested in purchasing an Audi.
        2. “it is impossible to know and recognize every type of game.”

        Thus the makeup analogy and your car analogy suck!


      • I didn’t mean a woman at an audi dealer; I meant a man. Or a person. Even if they know the guy is going to make a sucker out of them, they will let him talk them into buying the car if they want it bad enough. The point I was trying to make was that people will believe in what they really want. If you don’t understand, then that’s your loss.

        It is impossible to know and recognize every type of game. People are always coming up with new techniques. You repeating what I said doesn’t make the analogy bad.


      • Being gamed and knowing it simply means that she know the man finds her attractive. What could be wrong with that?

        If she truly has a problem with it it is because she thinks highly of herself and she doesn’t want the beta trying to increase his value to bother with her.


  8. on August 30, 2012 at 1:49 pm Thasswhatimtalkinbout

    I always thought that girls may have heard of something called ‘game,’ they really don’t know what it is. Which means you can game them even as you deny you’re gaming them.


  9. Niel Strauss? Not into opera…


    • Perhaps she meant Leo Strauss, influential German-Jewish-American philosopher?


    • This is the best response so far. Why even acknowledge that you’ve read the book? Unless you’ve been caught using a canned opener, don’t need to draw attention to it. Just ignore it and direct the conversation to topics of your choosing.


      • I think so too, including those of the estimable Mr. H. “Who’s Neil Strauss?” works for me, and then get her to explain it to you, which will probably open up several opportunities to use game. The “not into opera” bit sounds good too, and there might be other possibilities along those lines.


      • I agree. It sounds like a great excuse to seat yourself and get into a long discussion, fascinated by the existence of some book about relationships that she brought up and, presumably, would be ready to have a great discussion about. And she’d be up at bat first to give her view of what game is and what sources of information she has on the subject as well as her opinion (and her ideology).

        All of this would help you qualify her as well as show her that you are qualifying her.


  10. The right attitude is who the fuck is this chick? I don’t rifle though her bag to look at her brand of lipstick. I’ll wait until its on your lips and decide whether or not you have become an object of fashion or a clown.

    So you are going to get the whatcha doing in my bag response which in this case is, “not into opera” which is really saying not into discussing what isn’t your business, and BTW

    did you douche fer me?


  11. War of the sexes is not a war anymore. Game made it so asymetric that it’s now ridiculous. Game versus shit tests is like AK-47s versus machetes.

    We will sooner or later start hearing some women begging for mercy, and asking to negotiate terms of capitulation.
    And if that doesn’t happen, well, we will keep fucking this nation to oblivion like many civilizations before us.

    No big deal, really.


    • It really is over-powered. I’m always 10 steps ahead of interactions. I know what she’s thinking before she does and I know what she’s going to do before she does it. Game really gives you a sense of god-like omnipotence when you’re on fire with it.

      It doesn’t mean you always get the girl, but you can usually pinpoint exactly where things went off track because you understand the situation so well and can calibrate better in the future.

      This is part of why we encourage guys not to get shit-faced and game. Most of this goes out the window when you drink and your brain and memory aren’t as sharp.


  12. Chess game: moves are met by counter-moves which are then met by more and more sophisticated counter-counter moves. And then at some point you flip over the board.

    I have to say, this site is giving way too much thought-food for my already unhealthy cynicism. What ever happened to falling in love? A relic of a by-gone era, I’m afraid; women aren’t into it either. So all we have now is periodic sex and then eventually a socio-financial decision to commit to one person, with tacit agreement that both partners will cheat. Fucking modernity, man.


    • Washing machines, microwaves and vacuum cleaners is what happened to love.


    • “I’m afraid; women aren’t into it either.”

      You crazy? Plenty of women are dreaming about love. Except some irretrievably broken sluts and female sociopaths.
      And not to brag, but it’s fairly easy to make them fall in love, assuming you’re not a complete dork loser with no game.

      As for cheating, it depends on opportunities. I don’t recommend marrying a woman who is working, for starters…


    • I make my woman lovable.


    • The “women are giving up on love” trend is another lie that fembots tell themselves to ease their slow spiralling down to catladyhood and sexual worthlessness.


    • Love is for later. Love is what happens after you’ve tamed her hamster into something you can handle for a while. Love is when you’re so confident in your attractiveness to her that you can by-pass all the dumb shit and enjoy life with her. Love is the carrot, Game is the stick.


  13. How to respond to girls who call out game:

    “What game?”
    “Never heard of it.”
    “Who’s on first?”
    “What are the rules to this ‘game’?”
    “Are there chaperones? Umpires?”
    “It sounds kind of silly. Anyway…” (proceed with game)


    • LOL. But I’d take her bringing up the subject as an invitation to have a seat, lean back, and let her explain what she knows about this “game” thing.


      • As long as she doesn’t count top pick up gurus among her personal friends and hasn’t, say, helped work on their latest book, you should be good 😉


    • In-between tea services, Kate’s gonna put us wise to game, boys.

      And if’n y’all are real attentive and quiet until she’s done expounding, she might even give us a peek under that kimono.

      /and please, baby… lose the puns.


  14. Don’t forget kino in all of this. It is hands down the most powerful thing there is. Requires no talking, minimal thought (gauging reactions and escalating), and covertly projects what you’re after. Doesn’t even matter what you actually talk about.


  15. on August 30, 2012 at 2:29 pm theislander829

    This follows the response when I get called out for being a player. All I say is “me? Nah… I’m not a player.. I’m the coach.”


  16. To really see how to handle this in action, just watch Hank Moody in the Californication series. It’s the best I’ve ever seen in the media.


    • I second this. Heartiste did a good write up of the first three seasons of Californiacation–largely pointing out that Hank is kind of an uber-Lothario / white knight feminist fantasy–but didn’t delve too much into the particulars of Hank’s gamesmanship.

      Hank is a fantastic tutorial on cocky-funny, in a lot of situations that go beyond initial pickup (and hence the sorts of situations that you won’t see in pickup videos online). Of course, Hank if a fictional character with a bunch of writers, so his game is tighter than 99% of us can hope to acheive and consistently maintain, but a good aspirational model.

      If you are a witty guy and generally work cocky-funny game, a good mental fallback position is “what would Hank Moody do?”


      • “Hank is kind of an uber-Lothario / white knight feminist fantasy”

        True, I’m sure Californication’s finale will be him marrying some fat feminist with a strong personality.
        There is absolutely no hope with movies and TV shows when it comes to sex differences.


      • “True, I’m sure Californication’s finale will be him marrying some fat feminist with a strong personality.”

        You’re probably right. Life for an alpha never seems to end well in TV-land.


    • Hank’s game is dead on solid. Especially in the first 2 seasons, mostly in the 3rd season, but from there it all gets pretty retarded and the show falls more into ridiculous situations.

      When the show first came out all the MSM was like “this is just some writer’s wet dream, girls throwing themselves at Hank and sleeping with him right away, it’s all bullshit!” but the first 2 seasons and most of the 3rd are legit if you understand game.

      Even the Porsche sales-chick, there’s teasing, cocky-funny, leading all in the store, then AMOGing and social proof when he burns the guy in the other car, etc. it happens quickly but the principles are there if you know what to watch for. Not saying that kind of thing happens all the time, but it’s not as crazy and far-fetched as the MSM railed against it. The funny part to me was how ANGRY they railed against it. Like it made them mad to watch the show lol


  17. Take the entire unique visitor count of this blog and divide it by the number of males of banging age in the U.S. alone and I’m sure it’s a portion of a percent. So running into the occasional woman who “knows” game is as likely as someone winning the lottery. The real concern is, how many males don’t know game and don’t know how to handle the average woman’s shit tests, much less a feminist who stumbled onto Game.


  18. How about some of these?

    “Yeah, you’re right. Game only works on pretty girls.” Walk away.

    “Neil Strauss? How quaint! Really, Cupcake, if I wanted to get in your panties I’d be there already. I’m just trying to get your friend jealous. You never approach the prettiest girl first.” Walk away.

    “Neil Strauss shit? Please, I’m better than that. I’m just a chubby-chaser, and you look like you’re gonna balloon up in a couple of years and I wanted to meet you now. But I can see you’re reluctant . . . ” Walk away.

    “Yeah, you’re right. You’re clearly not worth the effort.” Walk away.

    (Wide eyed) “But . . . But . . . everyone I talked to said that you were the easiest chick in town, and all I had to do . . . oh, I see. You went to the clinic this week, didn’t you?” Walk away.

    Seeing a pattern, Gentlemen?


    • #1 and #4 are solid gold, the rest are good but a bit long-winded IMO. A dagger should be buried swiftly.

      [heartiste: chicks dig the shiv.]


    • ya the pattern is you being completely butt-hurt and going home to lotion and kleenex.

      These are terrible and not just pointlessly mean but actively burning down a completely workable set.

      “sorry, we don’t have any pepperoni pizza right now.”

      “fuck you then!!! BURN THIS PLACE TO THE GROUND!!!!!”

      To quote Anchorman: “boy, that escalated quickly.”


    • I say, think of what William Shatner playing Cpt. James Tiberius Kirk in “The Wrath of Khan” would say:

      “Neil Strauss? Who’s that?”

      Then change the subject.


  19. Oh Heartsie. You are the best.


  20. Ken Titus the alpha father to a beta son.(the parts with different women in his life are hilarious, for e.g. at 2:15)



  21. A certain single mom once known in these parts, with a now-defunct blog, devoted much of her attention to combating and criminalizing game. All the while gruff commenter Willard Libby negged her and female commenters viciously, much to their delight.


  22. Meanwhile, in real life:
    Girls warn each other about ‘game’.

    [heartiste: boys warn each other about beautiful heartbreakers, but that doesn’t stop them from wanting to get in their panties.]

    A prominent example is the hot girl who now knows to absolutely get a man to buy her a drink before going home with him,

    [she better hope her plan fails. the man who buys her a drink instantly makes himself less attractive to her.]

    and knows (in the way only a woman can believe she knows something)

    [“can believe”. haha. you got that right. here’s a pellet.]

    that a man who won’t is a creepy homeless guy with a shopping cart full of human hands.

    [in real life, the men who are least likely to buy girls drinks are usually the men women want the most.]

    When a girl has been trained to be fearful,

    [if you fear men who refuse to buy you stuff, i imagine you’re too scared to step out of the house. dem babies in strollers can be lethal.]

    truly fearful-get-away-now of whatever particular game you are applying, you can’t recover.

    [a girl who is that insanely neurotic is not worth pursuing, so the question of recovery is moot.]


    • “A prominent example is the hot girl who now knows to absolutely get a man to buy her a drink before going home with him,”

      Except there’s a second hot chick and to get with the guy before the first hot chick does, she leaves with him *without* getting that precious drink. That’s where your plan falls apart. No pickup happens in a vacuum.


    • “A prominent example is the hot girl who now knows to absolutely get a man to buy her a drink before going home with him,”

      And what, pray tell, is that supposed to guarantee? Later, she’s telling her friends, “I slept with him then never heard from him again. But he did buy me a drink.” ??? 🙂

      [heartiste: people asked for the dummy haters and trolls to be banned. so they were. and comment quality did go up.
      but the fun went down.]


  23. Re: the Tweet about Karachi:

    “Pictures of Karachi’s past remind that progress is not inevitable.

    Karachis’ higher level of progress in the pictures shown is almost entirely a legacy of British colonialism. Almost a cargo cult veneer on their civilization.

    Leave the w*gs to their own devices, and as we can see, it only takes a couple of generations for them to revert to chaos and barbarism.


    • When the good ideas left the bad ideas took over.


    • Yeah, that’s right, they use to want to imitate the West, but who would want to imitate the madhouse the West has now become? Is it any wonder that fundamentalism has arisen as a counter to following the West down the sewer drain?


    • You either have prosperity and women running around naked getting plowed by playboys. Or shitholery and a sustainable civilzation, no matter how barbaric it is.

      Despite their rather long history, humans still haven’t figured out how to get the best of both worlds.


  24. How about getting a confused look on your face and saying, “Neil Strauss? … Who’s Neil Strauss? Maybe I should look him up.”


  25. Sometimes I feel like the timing on this blog is uncanny.
    Last night was flirting with a 7 from London at some lounge downtown, in the middle of the conversation she asks if I’ve read “The Game”. My immediate reply, naturally accompanied with a shit eating grin, “Obviously not, otherwise I wouldn’t have forgotten to have negged you.” Ended up spilling vodka cranberry on her later (It was free haters) but she surprisingly wasn’t mad at all. Was going to go for the number close but realized she was only here for a week so I moved on towards better prospects.

    Same place this NYU sophomore that I’d just met (who’s actually in the same program as me) asked me to grab her a drink. Mid-way through her sentence I cut her off – are you actually trying to get me to go grab you a drink? Her response – maaaybee. Me, smirking – Well I guess it’s too bad that I have asshole written all over me.

    I was going to go for the number later but lost her when I forayed into the bathroom to do a little blow (I probably should have invited her along but that’s backfired in the past).

    Did number close two coke whores though.

    But enough keyboard jockeying. I’m just glad to have stumbled across the generous denizens of this chateau and know what I do as 19 year old.

    On a more serious note, do any of you adults out there think I shouldn’t be fucking around with drugs and basically soulless people at this age? I’m around coke and in “good” clubs basically 2-3 nights a week. I think of you all as mentors to a certain extent, and sometimes I wonder if I should just start dating a nice girl to attain some level of stability in the dark existential abyss residing where my soul used to be. Alas I’m finding my social circle is just too damn jaded and cynical (to be expected from wealthy club kids) to make that happen.

    I had been seeing a 6.5ish gf material girl for a bit but basically used her to make an ex jealous. I let things fall apart.

    As one female friend put it, “She was nice Graham. But you’re polar opposites. You belong to the dark side.”

    And now I really must get going. I have to return some videotapes.


    • From the long-term view – at least in my eyes – its probably best to steer away from the drugs. I sound like a fricken goody-two shoes, however you can never be quite sure what’s in that shit. I like the idea of still fucking 18-year-olds at age 40+

      All people are basically soulless though, so keep on keeping on.


    • I wouldn’t worry. Chicks and blow is how a man should spend his twenties. I missed the chicks part until 26 and I think I will never have enough pussy to make up for all those wasted years.

      Just keep some focus. Bear in mind that coke is nasty and can destroy your life if you’re reckless.

      You should count your blessings since you discovered game early. Just never stop learning.


    • Well done, young man.

      To answer your questions, you have to ask yourself a couple more. You’re clearly trending Alpha…but what kind of Alpha do you wanna be?

      Bull Alpha, where your primary goal is to fuck as many women as possible without commitment, eventually running a small harem? In that case, get yourself a vasectomy and a degree in business and you’ll be in pussy paradise for the rest of your life.

      Or Wolf Alpha, where your dedication is to reproduction, family, and home? Where your focus is on the creation and development of high-quality human beings, mandating a careful and thoughtful — and extremely deliberate — choice of mate? Where the initial seduction skills Bull Alphas use to go through an endless river of cooze must transform into a workable system to maintain a fulfilling sexual, social, and intellectual relationship with one high-quality woman?

      Either choice is valid for the man who Goes His Own Way. But you just have to decide which way you want to go, and educate yourself accordingly. If you go Wolf Alpha, then spend the next few years refining your criteria and doing research while banging as many babes as you can…and then find the Mama Wolf you want, investigate and vett her thoroughly, and live HEA raising a mess of pups. That’s what I did. But that’s not for everyone.

      If you do decide to go Bull, then enjoy your time in the clubs with the blow, but understand that you’ve got your Game set on the lowest difficulty setting. Running game on rich girls looking for a thrill and a way to get back at Daddy is fun, at 19 — hell, at 19 all pussy is fun — but it gets boring after a while. You’ll start looking for newer and more challenging companions soon enough. That’s when you’ll be able to up your Game far beyond your peers, thanks to the Manosphere. Play your cards right and you could become King of the Puerarchs some day. And that’s not a bad thing at all.

      Why? Because the Puerarchy and the Bull Alphas provide a big scary stick with which the rest of us use to both scare and intrigue women. When we ALL know Game (or at least enough of us do) then there will be no telling Dads from Cads, while we have a much better idea of how to separate the corporate sluts from future mothers of our children. That’s valuable intelligence for a man in the Age of Hypergamy, regardless of whether you are a family man or a player.

      Good luck, Graham. I’m rooting for you.


    • Troll.


    • If you build an assosciation between doing coke and being “in state” (having fun, running game, etc), eventually you’ll train your brain to require coke to get into state.

      We do this to ourselves all the time in harmless ways (like needing a beer with your nachos to really enjoy the nachos, someone gives you a Pepsi and you’re like “wtf? 😦 this sucks”) but coke is a pretty dangerous dependency to build so be careful.

      If you want to do it, at least force yourself not to do it till after you’re in state (ie – you’ve opened a few chicks and gotten a couple numbers or makeouts) so that your brain doesn’t learn to depend on it to get into state.

      I’m not your dad and I’ve never done coke so I’m not going to lecture you on not to experiment with it, but most of the top PUAs live a pretty healthy lifestyle: healthy eating (paleo diets and greens and shit), taking vitamins, working out, no drugs (at least not while gaming, recreational time is different for some of them but definitely no hard drugs, generally it’s just some weed with buddies vs like, shooting up heroin lol), and a lot of them don’t even drink alcohol or only have a couple drinks instead of getting hammered. A lot of them do drink, but usually not when they’re teaching boot-camps and stuff.

      Part of it is that to go out regularly, especially as you get older, you need to take care of your body (you’re exposing yourself to a lot of germs and staying out late and shit so if your body gets run-down from alcohol and bad food etc. you get sick all the time). But another part of it is just respect for your body and psyche. Self-improvement is about taking care of yourself and minimizing self-destructive habits.

      But I’m sure that at 19 none of that is really a big concern for you lol so just be smart about the coke stuff and don’t get sucked into the coke scene too far. If you stick with learning pickup you’ll meet a lot of people, especially in the high-end rich social circles who are dependent on coke because their lives are pretty much empty and too easy, especially girls, and it’s pretty sad to see.


    • Throw away that coke shit.
      Long live weed.


    • Coke is bad Ju Ju because it makes you think you’re invincible and you start doing stupid shit and get caught. I never thought much of the stuff and its a whole different level of dealer. Much skuzzier. Its expensive too, right up there with a serious gambling habit. Cops also differentiate between reefer and coke. You’ll do time for cocaine possession in a lot of places and life in prison in Asia. My 2 cents.


  26. >> “Most feminists secretly wish for a strong man to confidently charm and dominate them into mewing submission. Since feminists are surrounded on an hourly basis by manboobed, asskissing sycophants who dream their crotch thimbles will someday receive a pity tug from one of them, your unapologetic, reckless alphaness will be a breath of fresh air reinvigorating their forlorn furrows.”

    Yup. This.


  27. “She’s in the 8-9 category …”

    An 8 – 9 girl who says game doesn’t work on her, huh? Well I, for one, believe what she says.

    You see, what she really wants is a man with some “charisma who is comfortable in his own skin, has a good sense of humor, is confident, unflappable, charming, fearless, exciting to be around, and has that certain ‘je ne sais quoi’.” That’s it.

    You see? That’s not game.


    • When she’s saying it doesn’t work on her, that statement should be ammended to say it won’t work on her forever. “Game” works on everybody. However, if game is a facade, it will eventually become apparent. For some people game is an overcoat. It gets put on, and since its uncomfortable to wear a coat all the time, it gets taken off. For others, its their skin. That’s the kind of person she’s looking for when she says that, imo.


      • Why is it that you people always neglect the fact that females are running their own game while you’re trying your pathetic bullshit.
        Her game will always be superior to yours because it comes natural to her while you had to study under some guy with a floppy hat and learn your lines and technique (which doesn’t work anyway)
        The female only has to be herself without making any conscious effort to run game on you while you have to try some trick you learned.
        The Natural will always win.
        So my advice to all of you little ecto-omegas is that you may be more successful by just choosing like a 3-4 and beg like a dog for sex until she gives in. That’s your only chance of getting any outside of a whorehouse 🙂

        [heartiste: speaking from experience?

        ps smiley faces at the end of a rant are beta.]


      • “The Natural will always win.”

        Mmm, completely wrong. Humans are amazingly adept at learning and adapting. Read Carol Dweck’s book ‘Mindset’ to understand why you’re wrong.


      • “The female only has to be herself without making any conscious effort to run game on you while you have to try some trick you learned.”

        Being herself is not the greatest advice for women either, unless “herself” has learned certain lessons in restraint, etc.


      • Exactly. Being yourself is a good way to turn off men.


      • Was that a personal dig or one of your hilarious aphorisms? 😉

        Nobody says, “I’m not going to brush my teeth because people should like me the way I am.” There’s a lot to grooming, dress, manners, etc. that women do in order to be appealing. It really does take conscious effort until it becomes a habit.


      • No, it wasn’t a personal dig. I agree with you. I wouldn’t tell a young woman “just be yourself” if I thought she was behaving in a men would find unappealing. It takes some effort to be feminine, attractive, classy and still a little fun. That’s why I admire women who are those things.


      • The secret to an LTR is letting your partner be who they truly are… and pretending they’re someone else.


      • The one charm of marriage is that it makes a life of subterfuge absolutely necessary.

        (stole it)


      • “Be yourself” is an inane content-free Oprahism that has misled a generation of idiots into personal stasis.

        It’s not that we don’t want you to try. We just don’t want you to see you trying. We want to plausibly imagine that your beauty is natural just like you want to pretend our confidence is natural. None of us want to see behind the curtain, really.


      • on August 30, 2012 at 11:10 pm FuriousFerret

        ‘Be yourself’

        The ultimate in shit test technology for both men and women.

        It’s like saying when you are paying poker ‘Hey man what is your hand?’ and if the guy tells you, he’s a fucking idiot.

        It ultimately means show me your weaknesses so I can judge and exploit. Never ever ‘Be yourself’ to 99 percent of people in this world. Just asking for trouble.


      • FuriousFerret, where have you been all my life? Everything you say is so true.


      • Creating sock puppets to pat you on the back on a forum is pathetic enough… but when you try to make it appear like a member of the opposite sex is enthralled with you, well… you’re truly setting a new lead standard for omega of the year.


      • Bullshit. Squared.

        If your Game sucks, maybe it’s you. My Game used to suck. Now it doesn’t, and I’m getting laid more. The dudes I’ve introduced Game to are getting laid more, with hotter women than ever.

        So . . . what went so wrong with your Game?

        And the difference between those “naturals” is the difference between talent and craft. You can only go so far on talent before you fuck up big because you everything came “naturally” to you, and you missed some important basic detail in their arrogance. Craft is learned, refined, honed, and tailored through effort and trial and error until it’s smooth . . . or the AFC gave up.

        Sure, a few idiots are going to miss up the point and mess up their completely, but the solemn fact is Game works. If it didn’t, then Roosh wouldn’t be on the SPLC hate list and banned from Iceland. If it didn’t, my friend Carl would still be a WoW zombie and not boinking his nineteen-year old girlfriend. And my friend Aleph wouldn’t be having crazy weekend sex with his pretty wife, he’d be puttering around the house in his Betatude, waiting for his wife to get bored with him.

        But hey. If a 3-4 is the best you can do, dude…knock yourself out. Just don’t tell me the shit don’t work. That would be a gross misstatement, made out of ignorance or malice, not an assessment based on the facts.


      • Are you seriously trying to argue with Whammer? lol

        You obviously don’t know the guy.


      • Mr.Chipps sounds like Whammer under a new handle. The gay bait smiley faces give it away.


    • Beautifully put.

      When a woman says “Game doesn’t work on me,” all she means is, “Game that I can spot in the moment that it’s happening.”


    • That is not something that you can teach these inept ectodweebs here. And I’m not even taking into consideration their physical defects that immediately turn on the ASH in the pituitary of the female.


    • Game is without a doubt most effective in the prevention of anti-game. I suck at taking shit. I pity the pimp that would try and turn me out. However girls are different and I gotta be respectful and nice and tame my….

      So for those that adjusted their natural state to run anti-game because of a snotty layer of feminist propaganda, the gains are rapid and permanent.

      A licence for irreverence and rebellion? I suffer naught from defiance? I signed up and went into hock…..

      Anti-game prevention is worth a pound of game.


    • lol’ed. Fuck, if only there was a way to learn how to be some of those attractive things girls like!!


  28. Don’t be a pussy and lie about an important book you’ve read. How about:

    “Neil Strauss? Interesting guy. Most women would benefit from reading him. Have you? What did you think? How did it make you feel?”


  29. I think what might work is if Neil Strauss emailed her.


  30. LOLZ


  31. Do not even go there. Fuck up her frame with ridicule.
    My response to any stupid shit like this is always.

    “If you ever hope to get drinks….you MUST stop reading the urban dictionary.


  32. I’d just play stupid. Not dumb, stupid.

    Me: Like a Strauss Waltz? But I like Classical Music. Just the masters though, Bach, Beethoven, Mahler…

    Her: No, I mean The Game.

    Me: Is that a book, a movie?

    Her: Its a book that tells men how to pick up women.

    Me: …does it work?


    • Why play anything? What are you afraid of? You are doubling down on concealment, as though it would be disastrous to be exposed. I don’t get it. I don’t understand the lies within lies.

      I didn’t read the book, but I know all about it because I visit pick-up blogs and they’re smarter than you think. In fact — believe it or not — they’re one of the few places anywhere that doesn’t engage in abject bullshit. So what’s your point, little girl? Let’s try some of it out on you right now… It’ll be a blast…

      Either defend your principles openly, or get new ones. Don’t run from a fight. Step into it.

      It will be a short fight with a girl. I promise. Neil told me in his chapter on “shit tests.”



      • I am afraid of boredom. It is so much more fun to make her explain it and then in the end say. “I know but I just wanted to see if you could pick me up” . Life is too shot to stand on principles to a sort of creature that has no appreciation for principles. You may as well recite to her your rights under Salic law in old Dutch for as much as she would understand it. They have an appreciation for the unprincipled.

        Besides, why not practice lying with skill when there is little consequence?


      • “Why play anything? What are you afraid of? You are doubling down on concealment, as though it would be disastrous to be exposed.”

        I actually agree with this outlook. The example you give is really socially awkward and uncalibrated but the mindset you’re describing is a solid one.


      • Everything looks “awkward and uncalibrated” on the page. It’s a limitation of the medium. Communication is at best 25% express-word content, and when dealing with women, probably closer to 5%. For evidence, look at any conversation transcribed literally.

        The point is, running away from one’s familiarity with game is more a sign of insecurity than it is smart tactics. You can talk about any topic under the right “frame.” Nonsense can be imbued with deep meaning when delivered with aplomb, a commanding voice, and steady gaze.

        Given the impossibility of conveying that skill set in a combox, we just have to trust each other that we’ve pulled it off.



    • You’re in her frame when you do this. That’s not a bad thing that you can’t recover from, just be aware that you’re letting her define the interaction when you do this, so be ready to cut the conversation thread and actually game her instead of getting stuck in this for too long.


  33. Challenge accepted


  34. “Old boyfriend?”
    If she says author of book on game:
    “Never felt the need to read any books to learn that.”


  35. Anyone who has ever used a dating site or has even looked at the personals is a complete ectoloser.

    [heartiste: what’s with you and your rainman-like yammering about “ecto” this and that? do you have a pencil dick?]


    • This is The Whammer or The Shocker with a new handle. He has a point but doth protests to much.


      • Shocker is a lefty faggot but I don’t recall him being a game denialist.

        No, I think that this my good old friend Whammer, finally getting his ass kicked on a thread. I know that you back him up for some obscure reasons, but I think he’s more delusional and deceptive than you believe him to be.


      • Yes he is delusional, and yes he appointed himself Detector of the Ectodweebs without demonstrating much to commend himself for the post.

        But a little challenge to the orthodoxy does a body good.

        A little. After a certain point the criticism becomes obsessive and speaks more about the critic than who he is criticizing. Zealots don’t know the law of diminishing returns. Repeating oneself forever gets old for normal people. I speak from experience.

        Either people receive the message or they don’t the first dozen times. After that,

        if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it; but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town.

        Particularly with the old and the obdurate: they have invested a lifetime into their delusions and cannot be liberated from the ingrown shackles without doing much damage.



  36. A possible growing trend of women calling out men for using game,

    That’s funny because all “game’ is is some pickup lines and bullshit that wouldn’t fool a naive 14yo virgin from Podunk

    [heartiste: if it doesn’t work, why are you so apoplectic?

    ps get off this board, troll!]


    • “That’s funny because all “game’ is is some pickup lines and bullshit that wouldn’t fool a naive 14yo virgin from Podunk”

      Are those the credentials you’re offering?


    • Hasn’t your mother taught you to wear your panties when you visit the manosphere?


    • “get off this board, troll!”

      Finally! Notorious game-denialist WHAMMER aka MrChipps has been tolerated for a long time, and I’m still scratching my head about the reason why, since similar trolls are quickly banned.

      I tried to destroy his credibility and drive him away by impersonating his real dad (Hi son 🙂 ) but my posts magically disappeared.

      Whammer’s free ride is coming to an end. He surely won’t be missed.


  37. “And don’t try that Neil Strauss shit on me. It won’t work.”

    Who is Neil Strauss?


  38. How is getting “called out” even an issue? To regard this as criticism implies you are nervous about being exposed. You cannot escape the nagging fact that it is the height of nerdery to learn how to flirt from books and blogs.

    Treating simple wisdom as a secret to be guarded contributes to my theory that pick-up is more a cult than a practical discipline.

    Women don’t want to know how magic tricks work. They aren’t curious little boys taking apart the lawnmower when dad’s gone just to see how it runs. They want to be delighted. We are the masters of substance and process; they are preoccupied by appearances and surfaces. Nietzsche: “Women aren’t even shallow.”

    Women want to be seduced by you. They should be flattered by the attention and count themselves lucky you made them a target. If they don’t, work on the “you” part. If they are driven to wondering about the hows and wherefores, a distinctly unfeminine mental process, you have no aura and no chance. You are so clunky that you inspire a girl to contemplate science. If you are showing your seams badly enough for her to recognize your routine as a routine, you need more than a quip to deliver you.

    I would discuss game with girls if they weren’t so instantly, naturally bored by shop-talk. They think they’re living in a romance novel, not a text book. You don’t talk with women, you act upon them. They are your willing, even excited guinea pigs once you demonstrate competence.

    “Don’t try that Neil Strauss shit on me. It won’t work.”

    No kidding. Anything else you feel compelled to warn me about, Miss Priss? We’re about to begin.



    • on August 31, 2012 at 12:44 am FuriousFerret

      The reason that ‘Game’ blogs even exist are because of the blue pill world with all of it’s feminist glory.

      When men are manipulated into acting like feminine little boys then you will have sorts of fucked up shit happen. If someone is taught unacceptable behavior because of a bad upbringing, is it wrong to at least try to teach some proper manners?

      The problem that the feminists have created is that by making the bar so incredibly high to have access to their golden medicore pussy is that they are pricing themselves out of the market.

      The ones that benefit from the post sexual revolution are the ones that ultimately get screwed by it. The HB 5 – 7 are the ultimate losers because they are good enough for alpha pump and dump and no where near the quality for marriage.

      Any 5 – 7 male counterpart has to improve themselves to a higher level to have consistent access to their pussies. The ulitmate catch comes in that when they are put in the work in the style, game and gym department they are no way in hell going to want to settle from some average lizard. It’s so delightfully ironic and sad at the same time.


    • “Treating simple wisdom as a secret to be guarded contributes to my theory that pick-up is more a cult than a practical discipline.”

      Yes that’s why we don’t encourage guys to be secret and guarded about it. It’s like you pride yourself on building strawmen and being deliberately ignorant lol

      “No kidding. Anything else you feel compelled to warn me about, Miss Priss? We’re about to begin.”

      KJ visualization. Wouldn’t work in real life. A girl busting you on game is a girl who sees you as too low value to bite on a “Miss Priss” jab and come along on a “We’re about to begin” ride. When you have higher value that kind of thing can work but if you HAD high value she wouldn’t be calling you out on using game in the first place, she’d already be receptive.

      That’s how it works when you stop visualizing scenarios in your head and leave your computer room and actually approach girls, at least lol


      • Dude. I’m describing the frame of mind, conveyed by more than words, not providing a 100% RSD-GUARANTEED™ NEVERFAIL LINE TO GET YOU INTO HER PANTIES. Those lines, pace St. Tyler, do not exist. I would never say the words Miss Priss. I’d riff off of some distinguishing feature of hers. This is elementary stuff.

        You are doltishly literal in your attempt to prove yourself winner of a contest nobody else has joined or cares about. So you niggle away exclusively about inconsistencies in your head. Who is “visualiz[ing]” now?

        Your manic “KJ” witch hunt can blow me. We’re all using keyboards here, dipshit. If you want to build your cred on faceless criticisms of people you never met — the main component of your dimestore shtick — try to keep up with the rest of us who have already mastered the obvious, KJOG.



      • Did you really expect a welcome mat from all the converted betas when you jab like this?

        “You cannot escape the nagging fact that it is the height of nerdery to learn how to flirt from books and blogs.”

        All shit tests (and this is surely one too) are an issue… as in you have to deal with them one way or another. Even no response is a response.


      • I don’t want a “welcome mat.” (Or a “Welcome, Matt!”)

        I — and to some degree, Whammer — am explaining to them the vulnerabilities they still retain, and that it will not do to pretend and proclaim they don’t exist. My words aren’t “jabs” so much as incidental bumps conceived as epic confrontations by the insecure, like when my limo mirror wings a ghetto kid playing stickball in the street.

        Perhaps it doesn’t go without saying, though it should: I couldn’t care less if they persist in their delusions, delusions I overcame as an adolescent. But I won’t be talked down to by snarky children who still haven’t acquainted themselves with reality.

        Game is highly useful, but it is only useful insofar as it is practiced in proper places and to proper degrees. Like very other instrument in life. These overeager puppies who want to bark the Gospel of Game “to all the nations” are tolerable enough, so long as they don’t sidle up next to me and suffocate my air with their toxic clouds of Axe Body Spray.



  39. This is like the Mr. Charles scene in Inception – “Accept the fact that you’re in a dream and I’m here to protect you.”


  40. When encountering a game retardant form of women ; just adopt a 2 date rule instead of the usual 3 date rule.and the main thing is amount of effort the projects/
    Lie about everything to the authorities


  41. “Fyi, I don’t shit with nobody”
    “So tell me, buttercup, who do you think lies more, men or women?”


  42. The reason agreeing and amplifying is better than pretending not to know about the book and denying it is the same reason the asshole who makes his intent clear gets the girl while the Nice Guy(TM) who pretends not to want sex or be making any moved is unattractive. One embraces his desires and makes his intent known, the other hides it and masks it, ashamed of his desires. Girls pick up on that.

    On top of it when you deny something that’s really obvious it makes you look retarded. Like the kid in your class who’d memorize jokes off the Internet and tell them like he came up with them and then when you called him out he’d deny it until you’re showing his joke already written out to him and he’s like “no what are you talking about that’s a coincidence”. It’s pretty hard to respect him after that lol

    On top of ALL of this, the main issue with this whole situation and all the responses is that you’re letting her set the frame and you’re reacting to her and getting into a logical discussion with her.

    I wrote my response to it purely because the guy asking wanted to know how to respond to that bit of her profile and that’s how I’d do it.

    But the reality is, if I were messaging her I would ignore that part of her profile COMPLETELY and game her as normal. Same thing in real life. BradP put it best on his Underground Dating Seminar CDs:

    PUA: “hey do you like horses?”
    Her: “this is that BradP opener isn’t it–”
    PUA: “no shut up do you like horses?”

    Strongest frame always wins. What you feel, she feels. Be the cause, not the effect. Be unreactive, make her react to you. Change her mood, not her mind. These are all PUA guidelines lol

    See the PUA community already went thru this discussion a thousand times. We all shit a brick when The Game came out because we were all heavily canned routine based back then and all using the exact same lines and wording. We were still looking at the surface (“say this this and this”) instead of deeper like we do now (“say whatever you want, but convey this this and this concept”).

    It’s actually a big reason Tyler switched from canned to Natural game, which he’s talking about a lot and described how hard the transition was for him. But he knew “who lies more?” would become the next “hey baby what’s your sign?” and game needed to adapt.

    The community tends to teach more concepts and inner-game than specific outer-game and canned routines now because of how limiting that was and to avoid these situations.

    Like a few people above have mentioned, solid game should be so smooth that she can be looking FOR it and still not spot it.

    Personally I like routines and shit, I think they’re a good way for newbies to get started and everyone has a handful of “go to” lines they say or stories they tell. The key, though, is to look at the structure and build your OWN routine off the structure.

    So you take “Excuse me, I can only stay for a minute but I need a female opinion on something…who do you–”

    What is that? It’s stopping them, getting their attention, demonstrating that you won’t hang around them all day, asking for assistance, and building some intrigue.

    So “Hey! Hold up a sec. Help me out. Who do you–” is the exact same thing, it conveys all the same stuff but with different wording and a different attitude. The original way will get called out if she’s read The Game, the second way is impossible to detect.

    The problem is a lot of guys getting into game are super socially awkward and don’t get all these nuances so they think “I specifically have to say these words in this order” and become robots (aka Tyler in The Game era).

    Anyway, ya, PUAs have been having this discussion for like 10 years. Girls knowing about game doesn’t affect shit if your game is solid.


    • Yup.

      And “hey baby what’s your sign?” How old is that? It pre-dates the Game Era by longer than I’ve been alive, that’s for sure. “Ave, infanta. Quid est tuum signum?”

      It’s so trite, so hackneyed, so obvious that, properly used, it should make for a good opener today.


      • It can be used in a number of ways, as a opener or even as a respone to the shit test from a girl who says game won’t work on her:

        Her: “Don’t use that shit on me. It doesn’t work and is lame and stupid.”

        Me: “Oh, I agree completely.”

        [I take a slow, meaningful sip from my drink, then put it down and look straight into her eyes.]

        Me: “So, what’s your sign?”

        Agree and amplify. See? And with any luck, you’ll get into a long (and boring for you but exciting for her) discussion of astrology. Make it up as you go along.


    • Her: “this is that BradP opener isn’t it–”

      We clearly have different target demographics. Any girl who has heard of “BradP,” much less can recognize his influence in a line, is more dorkily obsessed than you are, and without the saving grace of being male. If I ever met a woman with your level of hyperinvestment in PUA process and attribution, I would do an impromptu Olympic gender test (hand up skirt).

      Luckily, women like the one you conjure for purposes of example do not, in fact, exist.

      And if somehow, someway, you do run into a girl who says this, holy hell man, you need a radical adjustment in strategy and target acquisition. Reoutfit your ship at sea, brother. “BradP openers” are supposed to break the beta ice that has frozen around your mojo until you, hopefully very quickly, gain the confidence to not need lines so tactless that they can be recognized instantly. Game should assist you into a rapid personality adjustment, not expose you as a member of a cult.



  43. on August 31, 2012 at 1:46 am Dr. Grzlickson

    Big Man? Why you censoring me, bro? Where’s your brutal truth? Or are you just full of shit?


    • dude i gotta thank you for this.

      i copied and pasted all that into my online personals ad and within an hour i got like 30 responses! half of them were from guys, but of the ones that were from girls, a couple of them were from legit 7’s and 8’s!!

      i gotta say, i pretty much gave up on online dating, but then i saw your template and figured there was nothing for me to lose.

      props, bro!


  44. on August 31, 2012 at 2:50 am (R)Evoluzione

    A hot 24-year old grad student I had already been banging recently brought up the idea of game, spoke briefly about the concept, and admitted she liked the idea of being able to read people and subtly influence people and their decisionmaking processes.

    Normally quite the conversant one, I simply shrugged, said nothing, smirked at her, and smacked her ass hard when she walked by. We were naked on the floor within the hour. I don’t believe it was a shit test, but I just didn’t feel like intellectualizing or even entertaining the conversation. I had other goals.


  45. Her: “Don’t try that Neil Strauss shit on me. It won’t work.”
    Me: “Someone shit on you and it worked?


  46. To the original post…. I’d reframe along the lines of holding her eye contact with the sort of quizzical look an honest man gets when he can’t even conceive someone would think he’s lying and say “Are you telling me it’s a bad thing when a man goes up to a woman he likes, introduces himself, and tries to find out what sort of person she is?”

    If she’s still trying to hold her frame, continue with… “Normal women like it when a man has the confidence to make an opportunity happen, and to show attractive qualities”

    If she’s still being bitchy, back turn and walk away.


    • I like that. Especially the part about finding out what type of person she is. It will make her feel like she was being a little foolish and she might start qualifying herself.


    • Too wordy, man. Not enough “calibration.” YaReally “KJ” post coming in 5 … 4 … 3 …

      Oh wait, it’s Krauser.


      • on August 31, 2012 at 2:48 pm (R)Evoluzione

        King A giving advice to Krauser on calibration. That’s rich.


      • Your lack of reading comprehension explains much. You’re one of those Church of Darwin types who pokes his head out from time to time, right? No wonder you struggle with advanced concepts when the basic ones elude you too.

        I like Krauser, probably because he’s an elder statesmen among PUAs. He is low on the bullshit and the proselytizing, straightforward, and secure with what topics he has encountered first-hand. Like a good beat reporter, rather than a blogger who just got out of college and has an opinion on everything. Aloof wisdom comes with experience.

        Meantime, the rest of you theorists spout off about subjects with which you are not familiar, and you think that a PUA-pose is enough to bluff us. Evo-psych, the cred of “keyboard jockeys,” atheism, “ectodweebs,” etc. You think you can size a man up by his opinions expressed online, especially when they contradict your own.

        Try taking a man at face value. It’s what men do. You and others think you know enough to make a general judgment of a man by what he chooses to express at the bottom of a blog post, and that makes it especially difficult to take your judgments at face value. But I will continue to operate that way, even while you continue to prove my good will to be too generous, if not outright naïve.



    • Nice reframe. I think reframing is the part of game that I am weakest. I’ve always been a pretty literal-minded person and easily fall into another person’s frame. Gotta keep working on it.


      • I think to get to this level of smoothness, you need a lot of experience. I don’t think you have to be that clever to think of this reply, you just need to be really calm and confident.


      • Turbo,
        Properly learn to ridicule. Go light at first.

        Hear something you don’t like… say this “I promise to not make fun of you for asking me that.


  47. I don’t know about game or no game, but it seems to me that bringing up her mom (“it worked on your mom”) is really burning all your bridges – if that’s what you’re after.


  48. Online Game exists.


  49. Women hate to be called “babe”, they prefer “darling” and shit:

    I say don’t listen to what they say, listen to what the guys who fuck them say.


  50. Ignore and or change the topic to something that will make her laugh.
    I really like the whole classical music thing if done in a less serious tone and more like witty banter.

    You should make her feel silly for even mentioning The Game.

    I once mentioned game to a guy with game. A very smart and outrageously witty man. He’d said something and I said “Why because you “got Game”?
    in a half silly/exaggerated manner. “Because you’re an alpha?”

    He laugh and then said something like “Alpha? I’m omega I’m like …..”
    I can’t think of what he said next but it was extremely funny and witty. He agreed and amplified? He just said something really funny that wasn’t self-depracating. Made me feel silly for mentioning game and we moved on..

    By the way I have no problem with game I think men that don’t have it should get it and I see nothing wrong with using it. I would if I were a guy/beta You aren’t raping women…..they want to sleep with you. I’ve read on several pua blogs that you are just helping them do what they want to do.

    I remember a few men that I wanted to like and they just ruined it for me by being betaesque. It’s an instant turnoff that I can’t move passed.


    • He laughed and then said something like “Alpha? I’m omega I’m like …..” I can’t think of what he said next but it was extremely funny and witty.

      Classic. Even our wittiest material and most spontaneous comebacks are overwhelmed in their mind by frame and demeanor and delivery. Ten-to-one odds it would look pretty lame (or “try hard” or “awkward” or “defensive”) on the screen, if she remembered it.

      And what does she take away from the experience? Not the formulation of the word order, just the effectiveness of the expression. Game can bear only so much precision analysis before it becomes self-defeating.



  51. Why even respond. Silence….with a smirk says everything or nothing. : ))


  52. Or, in response, to the “no Neill Strauss shit” woman…

    “Otherwise, babe, have some character and be a worthwhile dating/mating prospect, not an asshole-cock chasing whore worth only an assfuck-‘n-dump.”


  53. on August 31, 2012 at 1:46 pm dalek that exterminates stupidity

    If she can catch you running game, then your game sucks.


  54. I’ve had two girls I’m gaming respond to some invitation or comment with “Wow, you’re so confident”—-it’s a similar kind of shit test….

    I’ve responded with: “Of course.””

    Her: “Why?”

    ME: Because…..

    Her: “Because why?

    Me: because it’s true…..

    In another case i didn’t respond.

    all these shit tests of references to game, or negs or being a player….are the same question.

    Saying the opposite of what’s expected, being cocky funny or reframing.

    The only responses….


  55. “And don’t try that Neil Strauss shit on me. It won’t work.”

    Reply like this :

    Madam, of course Neil Strauss’ Shit won’t work. Rather try Olay Night Care. Who told you to use Neil Strauss’ Shit anyway?

    And in that reply there is :

    1) A reframe.
    2) A neg.
    3) Some Cocky-Funny.
    4) A Disqualification.
    5) Eliciting values.
    6) Amusement.

    Ahhhhhh, Neil Strauss’ Shit really won’t work.


  56. “And don’t try that Neil Strauss shit on me. It won’t work.”

    “Better guard that tone… people will think you’re antisemitic.”

    (and then chuckle inwardly as the hamster back pedals).


    • That’s good. It would even work better if you are Jewish and just accuse her of antisemitism. She’ll have to prove she isn’t.


      • She’ll have to prove she isn’t either way… so powerful is the fear of that latter day Scarlet Letter.

        And if she sloughs it off and openly admits it, well… I’m in love!



  57. From personal experience, if the guy’s doing it right, I don’t even notice. It’s the obvious manipulation I tend to look for, and the stuff I actually enjoy – like having him take control of the night/date/situation/whatever and not asking for permission to do it – I don’t tend to analyze it. It’s when a guy hasn’t internalized it, and is just going through the motions, that it’s easy to spot and therefore, earns suspicion/derision. If I call a guy on his shit, it’s already too late for him to save the night. Of course, on the other side of that, if I’m suspicious he might “try” something on me, and I don’t notice anything like that happening, I’ve got nothing to call him on in the first place.


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  59. For those of you who still stuck with Mystery method/ the game: use the structure not the actual material. The MM game thing has become extremely popular. I remember watching some kind of dating show on TV the other day and all the guys were using some corny mm line. But even mystery predicted this would happen; it has become the norm. Now only those who really know what they are doing would get laid.


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