Fat Women And Fat Men Aren’t Equally Repulsive

Marriage is more satisfying when the wife is thinner than her husband.

[M]en who had a higher Body Mass Index than their wives (calculated from a person’s height and weight) were a little happier at the outset than those who had the same or a lower BMI. This advantage was maintained throughout the period.

What is more it appears it’s not just the husband who is happier if his wife is thinner.

How heavy the husband was didn’t play a role in happiness at the start of the study for the wives.

However, by the end of year four, the wives whose BMI was lower than that of their husbands were significantly happier than those who had the same BMI, or a higher one.

These finds held true even when other factors such as depression and income level were ruled out.

The researchers from the University of Tennessee speculated that physical attractiveness was a more important quality in a partner to younger men.

This is yet more evidence that physical appearance in a potential mate is less important a criterion for women than it is for men. Fat chicks suffer a graver penalty in the sexual marketplace than do fat men. And slender babes who fulfill the sexual polarity directive — that is, women who are more naturally feminine and relish their roles as such within relationships — are happier than women who look and act more like their men.

Is there anything feminism ISN’T wrong about?





Comments


  1. ‘Is there anything feminisism isn’t wrong about?’

    No.

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    • on December 10, 2012 at 3:26 pm Days of Broken Arrows

      That was a great closing line. Laughed out loud.

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    • “Marriage is more satisfying when the wife is thinner than her husband.”

      If the wife isn’t thinner than the husband that’s not a marriage, that’s “See you later, honey”.

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    • +1.

      It’s just a special case of “is there anything progressivism is not wrong about?” Which is also no. And the crazy thing, that’s not even hyperbole!

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      • Careful with your terms. Progressivism properly understood is not merely a synonym for “liberal.” Now, I happen to be an AnCap outlier, but most of us are quite happy in a world where elevators are inspected, and your city mayor isn’t allowed to appoint his nephew to a cushy sinecure.

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      • Progressivism is the belief that “things are different this time”, and “we know better now”, hence don’t have to accept the restraints appropriate for earlier “leaders.” In other words, it’s crass, simple hero worship, where the “hero” is whomever is the most loudly self promoting narcissist.

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    • Meh. Even when wrong, feminists will attempt to claim the benefits.

      To wit, the Atlantic suggests bringing back chivalry.

      http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/lets-give-chivalry-another-chance/266085/

      Not much discussion in there about how women should behave to engender such activity.

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  2. I have a question I have been grappling with though, given porn, men dropping out of dating etc, what I cant figure out is why girls are such still bitches who readily turn down every advance that comes their way. Seems like supply/demand should start to really change the dynamic, but to no avial.

    It is just a massive FALSE overvaluation of themselves?

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    • on December 10, 2012 at 2:53 pm Spoos in August

      Sort of.

      They’ve been told all their lives that feminine behavior is abnormal. That, combined with the occasional fuck’n’chuck by a passing alpha, reassures them that they’ve still got it.

      The sexually invisible betas they ignore would be driven off by the bitchiness, if they got laid regularly. But they don’t, so they keep trying, and many women enjoy a large amount of satisfaction from shooting them down.

      Women may also issue nuclear rejections is a status symbol (as only the hottest women could “get away with it”). What they don’t realize is that this screens them out of almost every desirable man’s relationship queue.

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    • You assume the abundance of porn and other factors have affected supply. They haven’t. Have you been to a bar or club in a college town recently? Men with bad game get rejected. Period.

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    • Half the women being overweight is as big a problem for the men as sex-selective abortion in India and China is for the men over there. A slender young woman has plenty of options, making tight game absolutely essential.

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    • I’d find a different venue, seems like most girls that don’t want me to talk to them, just give me a fairly polite brush-off. shrug.

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    • Due to men’s higher sex drive and women’s natural propensity towards the harem it will always be a seller’s market, particularly in an environment of economic security. Maybe if 90% of men died off…but really that would just make them bitchier

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    • Men have porn to get them off, women have their smart phones and social media. Women’s perceptions of themselves soar through the roof every time they get a “like” on Facebook or a message on Plenty of Fish. With smart phones, women can get this validation 24/7. This is why you see a lot of 5’s who think they’re 8’s, and act accordingly.

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      • I changed my user name, but a lot of these points are pretty good. Despite the decrease in ‘demand’ it is still only small compared to the rapidly shrinking supply of thin girls, and the ego-whoring of every facebook girl.

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    • Because girls run on emotion, not logic.

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  3. Re: Sword:

    Girls have outsized egos b/c they get hit on hundreds or thousands of times a year, and they don’t see each of those guys hitting on hundreds of other girls, so they maintain a false sense of being the prize.

    Cavewomen grew up amidst only a few dozen eligible guys, and through intimate gossip were more aware of their competition…the female brain is not built to handle the unprecedented scale of modern urban population density.

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  4. on December 10, 2012 at 2:51 pm RappaccinisDaughter

    True–overweight guys just aren’t fighting the same uphill battle in the marketplace that overweight women are. The caveat is that he has to be fat in a masculine way. Big belly, fine. The teddy-bear look actually works very well for a lot of men.

    On the other hand…big FUPA or pear-shaped in that weirdly feminine way? Kind of hard to look at.

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    • I think being fat in a ‘manly’ way only works when the guy is tall. Like, Vince Vaughn allowed himself to get pretty fat, but I doubt it really affected his attractiveness to women that much.

      Me, on the other hand — I’m short, so…my high (but dropping steadily) BMI works against me hardcore I bet. I carry my fat almost exclusively in my stomach and in my face. So…it’s the dreaded skinny fat.

      Basically, I’d say short men = fat women in SMV.

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      • I feel bad saying this, but the last sentence is correct.

        When I lived in Toronto-Occupied-Ontario and spent my summers in Denmark (both places with some of the world’s tallest men and most entitled women), when women would say “Well, girls don’t choose men by their looks”, I would respond “Um, HEIGHT !?!”. They would defensively say “That’s not true”, to which I would immediately reply “That’s about as convincing as me saying ‘Like no way! Like, guys date fat chicks.” Girls would either laugh or look at me like I had just raped their grandmother.

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      • Yeah, and every time I hear about a short guy who makes it hardcore with women, it’s always some guy who literally has 10/10 facial aesthetics. Little need to diss game, though. CH has a post about its limits. Like, it just will not make up for everything.

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      • Go out more. Meet more people.

        I have a handful of super short friends (5’0″-5’3″). 2 of them get hotter women than most of the guys commenting here and one of those two is skinny/frail, Asian, with blatantly fucked up teeth. His bread ‘n butter is banging waitresses & beer tub girls.

        Some of the other guys are better looking (the good facial features and in-shape body type, wearing suits all the time etc) but have less confidence than those two (the frail one peacocks heavily, the other wears skater clothes and has shaggy unkempt hair and basically looks like a bum lol).

        Their confidence is thru the roof and the frail one studies/applies game.

        They run their game a little differently from tall good-looking guys, a lot more behind the scenes shit and a heavier focus on using social circles to demonstrate value and create opportunities to isolate, but they’re guys you’d look at and go “no WAY that dude can get laid” until the hottie you were hitting on starts ignoring you to talk to them because they have better game and more charisma than you.

        In conclusion like I said before: go out more, meet more people.

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      • on December 10, 2012 at 3:39 pm Days of Broken Arrows

        Go for Jewish women (or Indians and Asians, to a lesser degree) because their culture values brains way over brawn. A common sight at my ex’s old synagogue was wives towering over their husbands. You need to be well-read and educated to pull this off, BTW. Also, I saw some study that black women value brawn over brains, so it’s the opposite there.

        Subcultures, especially ethnic ones, matter when it comes to game, and that needs to be addressed.

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      • Jewish women value money, more so than most women.

        Back on point, women prefer larger men because size is perceived as power. A small, in-shape man is perceived as wimpier than a large, out-of-shape man.

        Also, BMI doesn’t work that well with men. It doesn’t always correlate to fatness in men because fat men and muscular men both have bigger BMI. Whereas for women, those with large BMI are indeed fat.

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      • Not true for Indians or Asians. The girls still prefer taller guys, all things being equal.

        However, both Indian and Asian women are shorter than average, so it’s easier for a short guy to pick up a Indian/Asian, because he has a higher chance of finding a shorter girl. Aka, height is relative; no need to be tall, just taller than the girl, and even a tiny fraction taller counts.

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      • You understand that there is no such thing as “Indian” ? It’s either Indo-European or Dravidian or Aboriginal.

        Aryans, say from Punjab are an average of about 6′.
        Dravidians say from Tamil are 5’2
        Aborginals are all over the place
        Chinese/Asian Indian (about 100 million in absolute numbers) are again all over the place.

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      • “You understand that there is no such thing as “Indian” ?

        Oh jeeebus. The only distinction that matters is between woo-woo Indian and Dot Head Indian.

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      • “Gwen, can I ask you a question? American Indian or 7-11 Indian?”

        The skinny.

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      • Matthew King (King A)
        “Gwen, can I ask you a question? American Indian or 7-11 Indian?”
        —————————————-

        “Indian” always means dothead, because white girls were among the first to adopt the PC term “Native American”. I always bust out laughin when some totally white girls claim Native American “heritage”. I always reply, “Oh, so you’re part mexican?”

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      • on December 11, 2012 at 10:46 pm Modern Primitive

        As long as you’re taller than her whn she’s wearing heels. *

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      • Women definitely have a type. However, it’s true that you can make up for it a little bit by having a very masculine attitude.

        Also, being smart helps. Women equate intelligence with masculinity to some degree, and they do respect it in a man. I once read that Marilyn Monroe had a serious crash on Albert Einstein and wrote him sort of love letters. Can you imagine Einstein and Marilyn as a couple?

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      • Can you imagine ANYBODY and Kissinger? But watch that man walk into a room….

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      • Oh yes, Kissinger had many beauties flocking to him in his day.

        But, I don’t know, I rather think Einstein and Marilyn make a nice couple. Except, she became interested in him toward the end of his life so his mind was on something else entirely, not to mention she was screwed up too and wouldn’t have made a normal partner. It was just fantasy for her and that’s why she corresponded with him. What I tried to say is that even a woman like Marilyn who could have any man, appreciated Einstein for of his brains. Brains and beauty often went together before feminism made women act like men.

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      • Based on my experiences, the only thing about intelligence that turns women on is if and how it relates to income or income potential.
        MM writing ‘love letters’ to Albert Einstein could have easily been studio spin.

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      • How can intelligence NOT relate to income or income potential?

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      • Liz, once again, floor rather than ceiling. High intelligence != high salary. Low intelligence, otoh…

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      • Well…I suppose there is the cast of Jersey Shore. Which brings us to the topic of entertainment, modern society, and perverse incentives. But that’s too depressing so I will stick to snark.

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      • Among Marilyn’s possessions catalogued after her death was an autographed photo of Einstein. Nicolas Roeg directed a film about them – “Insignificance’.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insignificance_%28film%29

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      • “Subcultures, especially ethnic ones, matter when it comes to game, and that needs to be addressed.”

        THIS. In my single years, in the right subcultures (“learned” nerdy stuff in grad school, for example, and a few others), I got more ass than a bus-stop bench, all of it, with a single hilarious-but-fun exception in the 9-10 range. In the wrong one (restaurants near SMU gold-diggers), I had a great time but never even bothered trying to go after the women (it may surprise you that raw beauty was actually MORE prevalent away from the SMU types, who had an alarming tendency to ruin their looks with too much makeup, etc). I learned a lot from being in the first environment, and could now easily float the second, but starting out I wouldn’t have been able to hack the verbal game.

        Scray needs to find a group of women in an environment where he’d be absolutely comfortable with the women, so that he can ignore the fact that they have tits, and build up some experience there. Some men HAVE confidence whether they can back it up or not; the rest of us get it from being able to reflect upon successful experience.

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      • on December 10, 2012 at 4:36 pm RappaccinisDaughter

        I know a couple of guys who are quite short–I mean, we’re talking 5’3″ and maybe 5’5″–who get more ass than a toilet seat. And good-looking girls, too, sixes and up. One of them is lean, one is chunky, and they’re both really only average in the face. Not ugly or anything, just average. I’ve never asked either of them for the secret to their success, but if I ever get the chance to raise the question in a way that won’t come off insultingly, I’ll do it and report back to you.

        One thing I’ve noticed about both of them is that they are both extremely self-confident. To the point of being egotistical. But they’re both genuinely clever and funny and fun to be around, so they don’t wind up pissing everybody off. (And before you ask, no. They’re colleagues and none of us is that dumb.)

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      • on December 10, 2012 at 4:55 pm Days of Broken Arrows

        LOL — True story: I entered college as a freshman at a freakishly short height and did better that year than any other in my life. If I could figure out what my secret was then I’d use it now. It MAY have been that I had a seriously hot girlfriend back home, so I just behaved like I didn’t care. Which I didn’t.

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      • As a short guy, you are definitely starting 1 point down from normal. In order to have a chance, you need to get game.

        Lifting weights and being fearless were basically my methods, before learning game. Of course muscles and fearlessness can be considered game too.

        Note that 5’4″ is the average height of women in the USA. Thus, for your short guy friends, half the women they meet won’t dock them on height, because height is relative. “As long as the guy is a little taller” (even a millimeter counts) seems to be the SMV cutoff (before they dock a point).

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      • I’ve been hitting the weights, and I’ve been losing weight and seeing gains. I mean, I want to stipulate that what I’m aiming for is just casual sex with 6’s and above. Like, fatties are easy — even for me, and older women are also easy…like 40+. It’s really just women who are fairly high SMV in their prime. Granted, the 4-6 (wasn’t clear, lighting was shitty — but she had a nice petite body) pissed me off because she could have potentially have been a 4 trying to talk shit to me, which is just offensive.

        So yeah…I kinda just think that posting or recalling anecdotes somewhere — I guess this blog — will help with the learning process.

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      • Make that about 10 points.
        What I’m seeing in the Real World (you guys remember that place, dontcha? Dontcha…..?) is that they all want guys 6’2 or better, even if the girl barely scratches 5’nuttin’ in heels.
        Plus, he also needs to be AT LEAST 3-4″ taller than her+heels+hair+headdress/tiara/cowgirl hat etc.
        Quick&E-Z aspproach guide for men:
        If the top of her head is below your chin level, you’ve cleared Hurdle 1 and may be her ‘type’.
        If the top of her head is between your chin and your eyes, you are borderline and acceptance will depend upon a host of other factors, most of them having to do with your looks, age and (perceived) cash value.
        If the top of her head is above your eye level, you most likely have no chance.
        Scratch all the above if you are rich/famous/powerful (rock star, well-known millionaire, politician, etc .)

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      • As a pretty short guy (5’9 in my stocking feet, I don’t count shoes and hair like a lot of frauds out there), I know where you’re coming from.

        However, being a generally well-calibrated and interesting guy can somewhat make up for the height disadvantage. Trying to compensate by wearing lifts and such nonsense is readily transparent to just about everybody, so I just roll with what I got and try to feel comfortable in my own skin. This, combined with the maxims of Game, has allowed me to not be an abject failure in the SMV department.

        Then again, I’m still not laying hot chicks despite my best attempts to be alpha, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

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      • If you are having blaming your problems on being 5’9″, your game sucks.

        You are *not* short. In fact, you are almost exactly average height in the USA.

        You are taller than the vast majority of women (who average 5’4″), and that’s what counts when you meet a girl face to face.

        Girls don’t dock you for being short until you are shorter than them.

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      • Hey man, I’ll be the first to admit my game sucks.

        But I find that a lot of short girls, say 5’3” and under, will shamelessly label me as “too short”, even more than girls that are taller than 5’9.

        5’9 is pretty short for a modern male, especially when I’m around a bunch of girls wearing heels and guys that are 6′ and over.

        I don’t think one has to be merely taller than a girl to escape the shortie trap. A lot of girls prefer to be towered over, with some exceptions.

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      • I wrote this in another comment, but basically, your height is average, and girls treat you as such on first impression.

        If you were short, girls would dock you a point or two on their scale.

        If you were tall, girls would add a point or two to your market value.

        Being average, they treat you as average.

        As a short guy, I can safely say that girls are NOT docking you for being average height. Short guys have to work harder just to make par.

        You are the status quo, and the girls treat you as such. They only mention height as a (not so) subtle excuse to turn you down.

        The taller girls (mostly) don’t use it as an excuse because, when in heels, they tower over their girlfriends (and most of their guy friends too), so height is more of sensitive issue for them.

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      • lies. I dock a guy if he’s shorter than 5’10. I’m 5’3.
        When I go out with short men I feel like everyone notices. When I’m out with a taller guy I feel very protected. People treat us differently, they just do.
        I really like looking up at a man and being carried in his arms when we’re alone. When I was younger I would beg my father and uncles to carry me and toss me around. Still love it. I have had a few guys say I was too short for them. Probably alphas.

        Maybe it’s something to try. Most petite girls are self conscious about their height. (5’4 and under). You can tell a short woman you prefer taller women.

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      • Wow, you are pathetic. Its not youre height that’s the problem…my guess it is probably your looks. Maybe you should try to change your style and body if you wanna get laid by girls out league.

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      • on December 10, 2012 at 5:08 pm lagunabeachfogey

        Of course, being Vince Vaughn has probably helped him a bit.

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      • From Wikipedia via Google:
        “Silvio Berlusconi
        Silvio Berlusconi is an Italian politician and media tycoon who served three times as Prime Minister of Italy: from 1994 to 1995, 2001 to 2006 and 2008 to 2011. Berlusconi is also the controlling shareholder of Mediaset and owner of A.C. Milan. Wikipedia
        Born: September 29, 1936 (age 76), Milan
        Height: 5′ 5″ (1.65 m)”

        I know it’s an extreme example; but it does illustrate an important difference between the predicament faced by short men vs fat women: For the shorties, there are balancing traits available. For fatties, there are none, short of no longer being a fattie.

        I’m not so sure about the conclusion that fat men suffer less in TODAY’s (USA) sexual market than fat women, though. While men’s attractiveness suffer less on an absolute scale; female hypergamy combined with a culture of pervasive state subsidized whoring, only the top 10% of men get any sex at all, whereas any woman outside the bottom 10% can get as much of it as she can possibly handle.

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      • Also look into Bernie Ecclestone, the guy who owns F1 racing. He snagged a Croatian model 6″ taller than him and 20+ years younger. His two daughters are smokin’ too.

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      • He divorced his first wife, and just wedded a Brazilian gal something like 40-50 years his junior……

        Oldest daughter is on the market………..

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      • Don’t get overly excited by the Brazilian he married. Hispanic girls from South America will often overlook a man’s age and height to marry an American of means. But they get smart eventually, as they become more Americanized and file for divorce after a few years hoping to run off with a huge loot. In court, any pre-nup is generally set aside on the grounds the woman didn’t understand what she was signing due to language barrier or due to lack of sophistication, in other words she was “duped” by a smarter man and his lawyers. Feminist judges and greedy lawyers find a way to make the man pay despite the pre-nup.

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      • on December 11, 2012 at 1:28 am Days of Broken Arrows

        I have one more piece of advice: if you look good with long hair, grow it out. People tend to put “in boxes” visually, so instead of being “short guy” you become “hippie guy.”

        Again, this is something I noticed in college, when a Frisbee-throwing dude was well with women in another dorm. It didn’t register to me for years that he was short because his hair, and his whole demeanor, suggested a different persona.

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      • Charlie Manson game.

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      • Being rich/famous/prime minister had, of course, nothing to do with it….

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      • It’s kind of neat how that works, isn’t it? I was standing next to one of my husband’s friends yesterday and it suddenly hit me that I’m taller than he is! Like, 3 – 4 inches taller! But he has such a forceful, hilarious, self-deprecating personality, I literally never noticed that he was short.

        Maybe because I was never looking at him as “material”?

        I don’t know, but they say fat chicks need to be jolly in order to be liked. I suppose short guys need to have wicked personality?

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      • on December 18, 2012 at 11:51 pm Days of Broken Arrows

        If you’re still on this thread and/or have it set so you can read followup comments, you should be happy with this quote, which I’m pulling off a woman’s online personal:

        ” And no tall people (6 ft+); it creeps me out when huge guys are into petite women.”

        [Heartiste: Very large and/or manjawed women tend to say stuff like that. It’s classic sour grapes.]

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  5. @Sword
    “what I cant figure out is why girls are such still bitches who readily turn down every advance that comes their way. ”

    There is no shortage of new guys for them to trample over like the elephants they are. There’s always new guys being born into the matrix every day.

    There will eventually come a saturation point, critical mass if you will, of men who are redpill where it becomes accepted as fact and no longer derided as it is today. Once that happens, their ego’s will disappear and we’ll see feminine women once more.

    Don’t know if it’s in my current lifetime tho…

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    • Yeah man, you are talking about a world that exists, It’s called the Czech Republic, been here for 2 years now and never looking back. Occasionally I meet an American girl who’s not 10-15 lbs over weight and has a feminine personality, but then she opens her “ohh my gwad” and twitter hash tag cesspool of a mouth and I relish the fact my phone book is full of Swedes, Russians, Slovenians, Czechs, you get the point

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      • I’m ordering Rosetta Stone – Polish edition for my Christmas gift to myself. X-pat is in the cards near future.

        I will make a note about visiting the land of long supple legs known as the Czech Republic when i finally cross the pond.

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      • You’d get more mileage out of learning Russian. Only because it is the second language of most EE’s and it frees you to hit up ALL FSC’s which is a good thing…

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      • @ M3 Jay in DC is right I spent a lot of time learning czech, dont get me wrong it’s paying off big time, but most czechs know russian even thought they dont want to admit it, and I could have 2 birds’d it with russian

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      • Can u make a good living in the Czech Repub????

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      • Yes, especially as a restauranteur… when I was over there, everyone always paid their Czech.

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  6. Biracial manlet checking in — still failing at this whole thing by the way. At least now I’m getting numb to it. Although, I had a particularly bad episode at the club a few nights ago. I started dancing with a girl, and she was somewhere between a 4 and a 6. She made a face, then expected me to notice she made a face. I was focused on other things besides her face at the time, so she informed me that when she made that face, it meant that she was ‘creeped out’ and didn’t desire my company.

    Now, I know that we’re all supposed to remain nonreactive, but this broke the dam that holds back my primal anger. Sorry — we’re scaling new heights of betatude now. I just shrugged, stepped further into her space, snapped my fingers, and danced more. This woman lost her mind and literally -pushed- me away from her.

    I blinked and held up my hands. Guess what happened? No less than 6 white knights arrived and told me how uncool I was being. Granted, I guess that was kind of a dick move — or hey, maybe certain people need to lighten the fuck up. So uh…yeah…..literally shoved away on the dancefloor. I’m starting to think that club dancefloors are -horrible- for me 😀

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    • When she made that face you should have asked her if she farted.

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      • I wish, man. Next time — I’m sure there will be a next time — I’ll remember to keep cool and say something like that. Probably similar rejected outcome, but at least I’ll have said something funny.

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      • Serious question: How do you “say” anything on a dance floor where the DJ is pumping the shit in at like 110dB?

        If you get up in her face and scream at her, she won’t be able to understand you unless she can read lips.

        Been there, done that – “game” as an intellectual exercise just doesn’t work unless you’re in an environment where the barest, most skeletal minimum of a conversation can take place.

        On the dance floor, it’s PURE MEAT MARKET and facial expressions and body language.

        Fuck that shit, man.

        That’s gigolo territory.

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    • Perhaps your ,Robbot was not running the new dance methods.

      What kind of club clothing did you wear? Parachute pants, fashion statement of last year, causing the girl to rub sensitive areas and lose face.

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    • @Scray I have my Commotion Theory. Commotion is loudest around the known treasures. Do NOT let broads deture you. You were in the right place at the right time on the wrong way and she instinctively filtered you out. I see lots of advice in this sphere on technique and escalation. It’s only in the ballpark. Study evolution theory and have your Theory of the Hamster and test it out. You should not retreat. You should evaluate the experience and try instinctual communication. She saw you as a suitor or she would not have called you a creep. You are halfway there. It’s just a jungle out in society, that’s all. Play the hamster not the fixed progression of courtship. Women have no discipline for progression, only an instinct for ranking and status. You triggered something wrong. Are you opening the social set first? That is the open secret to stop cockblocking. Maybe she cockblocked herself. lol The blowback means you are closer than ever, to both risk and reward. Think. Experiment. Observe. Watch guys fail and watch guys succeed. When you grab one of these specimens in the crotch and she likes it, you will not be so impressed at her judgment or indignation.

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      • Literally, it was just me on the dancefloor with some friends attempting to dance with women. Her friend seemed fine with me there — honestly she just seemed to be disinterested. I mean, it’s hard for me to watch guys fail and succeed. I hang out with guys who mostly do well with women — or a good deal better than me. One is very tall, the rest are between 5’7-5’9. So…it’s hard for me to know why they succeed. Is it because one is very ripped? Is it because another is very tall? Is it because they have better faces? Or is it because they have better game.

        Ironically, though….I do believe that trying — even if you fail — with women earns you more respect among males. Like, people talk about it and joke, but you become noteworthy. So….maybe you’re right

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      • I admit I am cerebral, so my bias for it is there. It’s hard? Is that an emotional thingy you need to work out, i.e. develop your inner game? You must fake game until you internalize it to suit you and your needs. Think more. Most guys go the other way and don’t field test enough. Maybe you are young, or maybe you have learned to stop thinking so you don’t feel the pain of the matrix code.

        Looks? Were you hitting on a 7 or 8 like your good looking friends who would never hit on a 5? Think rationally here. Work with what you got and try and try. Accept that you don’t get attraction from a 7, but loose approach anxiety. Practise the more intimate socializing with as ugly as you need. You don’t have to bang a 1, but you can get her to allow you the choice. Looks? If she was a 6 and you are less than average looking, then it could slightly matter. I think its your ‘game’. Think and study more. You are making some simple mistake on ignorance. Those fundamental answers are here online. Be persistent and patient but think. IMHO.

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      • When I did the Dating Market Value test for men and put up my pic on Hot Or Not, my average score was a 7.2. So I mean…by the test I’m average, but I’m also short, so maybe not 😀

        And by ‘it’s hard,’ I mean, it’s hard to pick out the signal from the noise. If I’m trying to tune up my game by watching successful guys…then I feel like I should be able to account for ‘okay, she’s going for him, but it’s in spite of that lame beta game he spouted, not because of it’ versus ‘this guy is spitting some good game and he’s getting success because of it.’

        I’ll try to ‘think’ more. There’s just a lot of shit to remember. I tend to keep my thinking to ‘stand up straight, good posture, lift chin, if you can’t think of a good response…shut the fuck up for two seconds and look at her like she’s a child.’

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      • When I say think more, it’s about refinement for efficiency and effectiveness rather than intensity to cover everything always. She is a she-child. She is not complex. To change is complex and laborious because conguency of effectiveness is not easy to achieve. You got it. Just keep doing it. Maybe go out alone to observe, or observe people you don’t know so you can be objective. Observe your practise targets. Observe yourself. You and your friends should observe each other and fix bad habits. Your bias should only be what the evidence shows. Collect, analyze, and repeat. Not a sprint but a marathon. Keep on living. I will suggest Michael Byc’s Alpha Dog Days of Summer and seductionbase.com. There’s books if you got money. Rome was not built in a day. Good luck.

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      • +1

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    • You didn’t handle it well. You can’t force a woman to dance with you. You should have just shrugged like, “Okay, your decision” and danced off. There are a lot of women in the world, don’t let rejection from one make you lose your cool.

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    • You don’t have an identity yet, which is fine because you’re still learning and observing other guys and adapting bits and pieces here and there to figure out your identity.

      The biggest thing about my short buddies who get laid is they have VERY clear-cut identities. They know exactly who they are and what behavior they do and don’t tolerate from people around them, and have developed extremely strong mental frames for how they view the world around them.

      Basically you’re still wishy-washy as a man. That’ll fix itself over time. It could take years, but it comes down to how much you want to get it handled. You are entirely capable of surpassing your buddies, you just don’t really believe that yet. Again this is stuff that you’ll fix over time, gaining little reference experiences that slowly add up. This isn’t something you’ll fix in a year.

      One of my close wings these days is a 6’4″ super good looking MMA Natural WITH solid game. It took me months to get out of his shadow and quit letting the logic of “there’s no way I can compete with him, he’s better looking than me” fuck with me and just trust Game and not subconsciously hold back. If I don’t do anything, he gets all the girls. But if I step up and fully execute and express myself thru my Game, I take the girls from him.

      You can also change your strategy up. If I’m out with a bunch of tall good-looking alpha jock types, I won’t open around them, I’ll venture off on my own or just with one of them, and work my shit. By the time those guys come over, the girls have experienced my awesomeness and even if my buddies are better looking they have an uphill battle because I’ve already got the girls feeling various emotions. If the other guy just relies on his looks and has no game, he’s practically invisible to the girls.

      My short buddies tend to work social circle game more than direct physical game. So they’re the leader of a group and inviting girls to parties or night out at other places, where they isolate the girl and escalate behind the scenes vs trying to be the make-out guy in the middle of the bar.

      One of my short buddies dances and girls love it and come over to dance with him because he’s just doing his own thing (dancing for his own amusement vs trying to dance over to a group of girls). But if he doesn’t do anything, the song ends and she leaves. So as the song winds down he grabs her hand and says “let’s go get a drink” and drags her over to get water at the bar. Except he’s actually dragging her specifically out of view of her friends so he can work his verbal game and DHV a bunch and escalate etc with no interference and if its a club enviro he collects her # and txts her thru the night while they’re still at the club to keep her mind on him, and meets her again “for food” closer to 2am or sets up a Day 2 for during the week. If its a lounge/pub enviro, once he’s hooked her after isolating he’ll lock her arm in his and introduce her to his friends and he’ll go back to the girl’s group and hang with them and work the group to get their approval and go home with her later with everyone’s blessing.

      The bad news is: you might not be running the type of game that really resonates with your personality/attributes/environment and that will take a while to figure out since you don’t have a strong identity yet.

      The good news is the Game has plenty of nuances to it that you get to experiment with and the cost of playing the game is just going out for a few hours and having fun…so it’s a long journey but ultimately a fun one. Hang in there lol

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      • Thanks a lot man. I’ll definitely try to build an identity for myself — that sort of makes sense. I mean, I have a lot of friends, but I’m not really -known- for anything. I mean, I know this is bad thinking, but I feel like…when I finally get the body I want, and the facial fat leaves my cheeks/neck, I’ll be able to run better game because I’ll just feel so much better about myself.

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      • Scray, please explain to me why you give the advice of the person you are responding to any validity at all? Do you believe everything you see on the internet? With the benefit of anonymity anyone could claim and say anything. And when I read what you just read I think, “Douche of the decade”, not “person to be listened to”.

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      • Reading through it again, that one wasn’t bad I was thinking of another one of his recent entries.

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      • Please. Just stop. You add no value here.

        If Scray wanted to learn how to catch fish, who is he going to listen to?

        The fish or the fisherman??

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      • Why wouldn’t you ask the fish? I’m sure if fish could talk the fisherman would ask them if they’re willing to reveal what makes them bite. They would be the ones to ask. Why not? It’s the internet, with anonymity after all.

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      • What he says gibes with my experience? People who have set identities seem to do well in life, I don’t currently have much of an identity, and I wish I had one because of what I’ve seen.

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      • Because I know what I’m talking about, dipshit.

        Why are you in a forum for men to discuss picking up women again? With all your vast experience picking up women?

        Oh, right, you have a vagina so you figure your opinion is relevant because you are the center of the world.

        Soon as you can offer the guy practical advice based on actual real-life experience that helps him get past his sticking points, feel free to contribute it. But you can’t. Because you are on the other side of the coin.

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      • “Why are you in a forum for men to discuss picking up women again? With all your vast experience picking up women?”

        You’re exactly right. I am the dip-shit for being here. Guilty as charged. What the fuck am I doing with my life? I was drawn here by an article CH wrote a couple of weeks back and have far overstayed my welcome. Thankyou for having me (so to speak). We run in very different circles and I don’t belong here.

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      • That’s exactly it. You’re not “the (something) guy of the group” (except for the short guy lol but that’s based on your physical features you can’t control, not your personality).

        Maybe you’re the ballsy guy who’s an approach machine, maybe you’re the intense slow-talking guy, maybe you’re the energetic used-car salesman guy, maybe you’re the intellectual guy who talks about brainy shit, maybe you’re the sports buff who wouldn’t even talk to a chick if she didn’t root for your team, maybe you’re the cheesy romantic, maybe youre the loudmouth asshole, maybe you’re the dirty perv of the group, etc etc.

        Right now your identity is more “what will make me accepted, or at least not DISLIKED by the people around me”. So you’re coming from a frame where you are whoever you think your friends, bar buddies, girls dancing nearby, etc would approve of.

        Part of having a strong identity is being willing to be polarizing…ie – the world to you works a certain way and if other people have a problem with it oh well, that’s their problem, you’re not gonna change who you are because you know yourself.

        When you have an identity, a lot of alpha behaviors are built into it. Like the guy who’s big into sports, he asks the girl “do you like Team?” (qualifying/screening) “I don’t really watch Sport…” “pffft we’ll never work out then” (push) “!! I mean but I could learn!!” (trying to regain his validation) “hmmm I guess I could give you a chance, but normally I’m not into the girly types. I like a girl who can go running and play sports with me” (qualifying/screening) “oh I love running!!” Etc etc

        The brainy guy shares exciting shit he’s into and is bored by girls who can’t keep up with him. So again he screens and qualifies girls because of his identity.

        The unstoppable player of the group gets “I don’t date short guys” and goes “oh I don’t want to DATE you… ;)” The asshole of the group gets “I don’t date short guys” and goes “that’s okay I don’t date ugly girls. But I figure after a couple of drinks both our standards will go down.” The super cocky guy goes “what makes you think I’m interested in you? You’re hot, but what have you got going for you besides tits?”

        All these different identities are polarizing. Like I’m the fast-talking asshole perv of my group. So quiet shy girls won’t like me. But loud bitch-shieldy girls LOVE me because I get in their face. Either way, I make an impact good or bad on both of those girls compared to the generic average guy who has no identity. I am on their radar, I am impossible to ignore, here I am try to keep up, know what I mean?

        You’ll form your identity over time and it’ll probably surprise you down the road when you settle into your groove that works for you. The thing is parts of it are already there, you’re really unlocking your identity from the social conditioning that’s told you “that’s not cool don’t do or say that don’t talk about take don’t do this make sure you always do that”. That’s why we go out so much…each experience you run into and all the different methods you try in the game, you find bits and pieces that really resonate with you. Maybe direct doesn’t feel congruent for you, maybe social circle events are where your personality really shines, maybe being an asshole is actually fun to you, maybe you love peacocking, etc. you have to experiment and go out.

        The catch is guys will go “oh that’s not me” and avoid something without really trying it for a while, and then they just stay how they are. You really have to be like “okay this month I’m going to try being more direct” and “this month I’m going to try peacocking” etc

        You’ll get the hang of it. You may be exactly like someone else in your group or you may be completely different from them, who knows? You’ll find that out in time. 🙂

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      • This all makes sense to me. Thanks a lot man

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      • As an exercise think of each of your friends who do well with women and think “what is their identity? What are their obvious values?” and think about people you know with a strong identity…how would each of them react to a girl sneering at them?

        Mystery has a lot of haters and looks ridiculous…BUT he had a very strong identity. To a sneer he’d just drop a “you can dress her up but you can’t take her anywhere” to her friend in the group. I would call her out and tell her not to be a bitch. James Bond would just chuckle like she was a silly little girl. How would your friends react?

        How did YOU react? You probably weren’t sure HOW to react, because you’re still figuring out your identity and that’s where this comes from. 🙂

        What are you boundaries? Your values? What behavior do you accept or not accept from people? How do you let them know that? When’s the last time you made someone aware that they’ve crossed a boundary with you? Ever? We’re conditioned by society to be easy going and hold back our thoughts and feelings for fear of people not liking us or approving of us…but the guys who get laid are the ones who you can go “oh man if she said that to HIM, he would do such and such”. You want to be one of those guys people say that about

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      • +10

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      • Also 2 things:

        1) the weight stuff is fine man, keep at it. You’ll definitely feel better and it’ll come thru in your confidence. For new guys you have to get a handle on that stuff, grooming and fashion and all that. The problem to watch out for is when you make the excuse of “well I won’t go out yet I’m still at 19% body fat, when I get down to 15% ill DEFINITELY go out!!” or “well I don’t have a job right now so once I get a job ill approach that cute girl over there” etc. guys use that stuff as an excuse to avoid taking action. There are literally guys who think if they work their ass off making money for 10+ years and become a big CEO working 80+hrs a week etc that they’re going to just buy a fancy suit and walk into a club and they’ll tear it up like a boss. Those guys stand around with their bottle service VIP booth and a drink at their chest and hire a hooker at 2am because they put off learning to seduce women until the time was “perfect”

        It doesn’t sound like this’ll be a problem for you though because you’re going out as you work out so that’s good, you’re a step ahead of a lot of guys learning pickup because you’re getting out there while you work on your body. So keep it up!

        2) hit on hotter girls. Think about why I say that, from a game perspective. What do you think of, say, Babe Ruth pointing out the homerun he’s gonna hit? You think either “that guy’s crazy” or “shit, if he’s that sure of it he must’ve hit a ton of home runs before so he can probably do it”. So what does it say when a guy who’s short, chubby, and theoretically shouldn’t have a shot with a turbo 9 or 10, walks right over to her and chats her up? Either he’s crazy or he completely expects to get girls like that because he’s done it before.

        Sure, you may crash and burn but 1) you get some awesome reference experiences, 2) everyone thinks you’re ballsy as FUCK because even the 6’4″ model guy is nervous to approach her so you get tons of respect not just from your friends but from everyone in the room for even trying, and 3) you’re implying to the girl “this isn’t something insane to me, I’m used to getting girls like you, now lets see if you impress me enough to have a chance with me” and she’s going to have less of a bitch-shield with you because she’s going to be curious at wtf you’ve got going on that you’d believe you could get her.

        Come to think of it, the short guys I know either rarely get laid at all (the unconfident guys) or get laid by super hot girls. There’s very little middle ground, if I think back on it. I hadn’t really noticed that before lol

        Anyway also consider that with the hotter girls, if you get rudeness, shit, that’ll roll right off your back, she’s phenomenal looking. It’s when you KNOW the chick doesn’t deserve you, when you KNOW she should be grateful you gave her the time of time, and when you KNOW you could and should get better girls than her, that her rudeness pisses you off as much as it does. 🙂

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    • Cool old lady checking in here.

      Do not dance with women. Just dance. Hang out with your friends, make a kind of a loose circle that women can insert themselves in if they’re interested, and when they do, you should all treat them like they’re a nuisance and had better start being interested or they’ll be ignored.

      Alphas do not go to clubs to pick up. It happens sometimes, but this is not why they go. They go to get their party on. Women should have to try to work and be offering something, to get you away from your pack or if you’re alone, to make herself more interesting than beer.

      When a woman pulls you in or starts trying to get your attention, look around the room at other women for a short while before settling your eyes on her. Make as if there is someone else there you might be more interested in, but that since she’s there, you’ll throw her a bone.

      At no point before she is offering sex, should you behave as if you wouldn’t take other available options in a room full of gyrating vagina.

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      • Never take pickup advice from a woman, no matter how well meant. They cannot possibly grasp how women actively screen without even thinking about it. You have to perform the formality of being seen to open her or she won’t feel validated like her flighty, insecure “mind” needs.

        I’ve seen may chicks drooling over me, practically masturbating in public but maybe one in ten thousand will actually open thir mouths and say a word. They really just can’t.

        The flip side of this is once you open her, you can be a horrible frat boy or some other alien species, end up beating her up when you fuck her and having her think about you all the time nonetheless but at least you actually EXIST, whereas every Beta who won’t [appear to be] kowtowing to her “beauty” does not get one neuron’s worth of thought.

        It is almost impossible to overstate the passivity and stupidity of women.

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      • I don’t know what kind of clubs you go to, but the ones I go to are loud and impossible to hold a conversation in. The guys who actually get women to go outside where they can talk are the ones who don’t give a fuck, and who women have to practically rape on the dance floor to get them to notice them.

        A crowded dance floor is like a lake. If you float around in it, eventually, you are going to hit every spot of the surface. People mill around, and you’ll get to see and maybe rub against every girl who is available. You don’t want to waste your time with girls who are not interested at all in getting laid. There is also the problem that once you are seen talking to someone, if your body language was too interested looking, and she rejects you, other girls will too.

        Dance is body language set to rhythm. Using your body to demonstrate high value is going to mean much more than words in a situation where you can’t talk. Chasing women on the dance floor is bad because you are playing her game. She gets to entice and reject at her whim.

        I don’t think my having a vagina somehow disqualifies the advice. However, feel free to follow women like puppies, and give them ammunition with which to make scenes and attention whore. Maybe it works for you in a way that it works for no other man on the planet.

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      • “Don’t dance with women”? So he should dance by himself, alone? Yep…thats a big turn off. Creepy, looks lonely and pathetic.

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    • What a cunty chick … this reminds of the snarl post. She had no reason to be that rude. Don’t give a rude bitch the pleasure of your company and you shouldn’t give her the satisfaction of knowing she got to you.

      You should have said something that made her feel self conscious about what a bitch she was being without seeming beta. No idea what it would be… I feel for fledgling PUAs. It’s hard to come up with something in the moment.

      Maybe…. a shrug, cue smirk, “you seemed like a nice girl.” (??)

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      • Yeah, that’s what I thought. I mean, rejection is one thing — rudeness is another. And as time goes on, the rejection just kinda bounces off (it still stings a little but, you know, like the way whiskey stings :D). But oy vey, the rudeness….it’s still a weak point for me.

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      • It is certainly true that night clubs are some of the most hostile environments, especially if you are White, over 30, shorter than 6’2 and do not resemble Brad Pitt and/or aren’t ‘gangstah’.
        They are, however, in some ways also among the most straightforward and ‘honest’.
        The girls will judge you (within 1/3 of a second) on height, looks, age & her first guess as to your cash value.
        They do exactly the same everywhere else, but use 50,000 billion different lies, ruses, smoke & mirrors to obfuscate the fact.
        At least in clubs you don’t have to waste any time whatsoever on chicks who aren’t IMMEDIATELY ENTHUSIASTIC , because it will be immediately apparent.

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  7. Whatever the study shows, it’s sort of moot because women, especially women at the height of their biological sexual power, are buying into the concept of having it all, which in their HypergamyGoneWild mentality means:
    -they want someone super ambitious (read rich business man)
    -someone well travelled (read rich, ability to take junkets to far reaches of the globe every month)
    -someone super smart and overly educated and worldly (to take mental adventures with, and to look up to)
    -someone who has the ripped body of Werewolf boy and the romantic stimulation of Sparkly vampire from Twilight (to choose the lego block above all others despite this mans ability to attain anything he wants from whoever he wants)
    -and they want all the above ^^^ to commit solely to them to princess them, wine them, dine them.. but know when to stand up to them.

    With a starting point like that, it’s hard for them to think that physical appearance in a potential mate is less important a criterion. Especially when one must show off their potential mate to the rest of the herd for oohs and awws of approval and drool drippings.

    Let the great cat collection continue.

    Note that when men get to the height of their biological sexual power and they demand thin… well you’re just a cruel evil person who can’t see people for their real inner beautiful worth. Bah.

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  8. But, but haven’t you heard about the grim news? Apparently, you can’t diet and lose weight. IT’S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It’s biology that they remain land whales. I mean simply cutting back on crack … i mean sugar doesn’t allow them to maintain a normal. It simply returns when they start they resume their full dosed sugar habit.

    Don’t even start with that cutting out sugar/carbs non-sense. It’s all so stupid. Forgoing chips, sodas, cakes, and chocolate simply can’t be done. It’s simply scientifically impossible. I mean eating a diet consisting of protein, fat and veggies is ludicrious.

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    • The belief in being genetically or medically predisposed and doomed to being fat is STRONG…….
      Granted, there is such a thing as the ‘fat gene’.
      Affects maybe 1/100th of 1% of the population.
      In the US, that would mean 1 small town in the abandoned NW corner of Iowa.

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    • Furious, most people just don’t know any better. You can’t hold people accountable for information they don’t have.

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      • They watch TV/internet all day.
        How many times a day do they have to hear that eating tons of crap turns you into a lard mountain before it sinks in?

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      • I agree with Wolfie65

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      • Skinny people who aren’t in health or fitness professions don’t know what or how fat people eat. You assume that it’s because of eating a lot of “crap”, and it is. You’re just vastly wrong about what kind of crap it is that is making them fat.

        It’s not usually sugary sodas and snack foods. It’s new, fake foods that they’ve been told are healthier for them. It’s eating unfermented, unsprouted grains. It’s canola oil and margarine instead of butter or fat from meat. People are eating a lot of poison and fakery that the body would naturally react to by becoming slow and fat. When you know what the real crap is, the fat people are the lucky ones because it means their pancreas and liver are actually functioning well under crappy circumstances. A skinny person eating the same crap, you can be sure, is carrying poison in what few fat stores they have, like their brain and breasts.

        To some degree, the obesity epidemic is just a cover for the cancer and glandular problem and organ failure epidemic.

        Again, what is right or fair doesn’t and probably shouldn’t have much to do with what people find sexually attractive, but let’s not confuse attractive with healthy. A lame newborn wildebeast is more attractive to a lion than a healthy one. A skinny woman, regardless of how unhealthy, if you hose her down, is going to be more attractive than a merely sturdy, strong one to most men. So a fat woman is going to be even less attractive.

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      • Calories In, Calories Out

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      • So put some sugar in your car and see how well it runs.

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  9. Just dumped a girl the other night. She was a 6.5 (+22 on DMV test for women) and we had been seeing each other for a bit over a month. I was starting to lose interest, and I left her alone for a week. But this weekend, she also started saying things like she had gotten a little chubby and was “proud” of it, and that she had been abused by her mother when she was little because she had been fat. Her mother is a total seacow, giving me a vision of what she’d look like in 20 years. After I dropped her off at her place and walked out, she sent me like ten drunken texts, the last of which was begging for a meeting to “talk”.

    I went back to the bar, and told her more attractive, slender roommate (about an 8) that it wasn’t working and I was through. The roommate, who I suspect fancies me a bit, threw three verbal shit tests at me in rapid succession (“It was really nice of you to walk her home”, “At least she actually likes you”, and “She wasn’t going to have sex with you anyway”), which I batted away thanks to CH training. I then walked away.

    There were several reasons I dumped her, but a longing to chub up, that she didn’t even bother to hide, was a definite deal-breaker.

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    • I am curious. How did you respond to the shit tests.

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      • Get the roommate out alone to “talk about the friend” and then segueway into how you’ve always found her more interesting because… (insert hamsterization here). Then try to smash an 8 who is slender, chances are if your game is crazy tight she will fuck her roommate over w/o hesitation.

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      • Arguably, girls sometimes have very intense slut shields when it comes to guys their friend had sex with.

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      • Nah, I don’t think this one does. She wouldn’t be throwing shit tests at me if she wasn’t considering getting carnal with me. Instead, she’d be kind and sweet as women normally are with cute widdow sackless teddy-bear betas (who haven’t tried hitting on them).

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      • and then segueway into how you’ve always found her more interesting because… (insert hamsterization here).

        I’ve never been able to say that kind of thing without coming off as beta. I guess that’s why I’m still stuck with mediocre 6’s, although granted that’s an improvement from nothing a year ago due to a refusal to dumpster-dive.

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      • Good on you for that. Bottom feeding does nothing good for you or for the girl.

        As one who was socially flawed in her youth, and actually flawed in her age, I can tell you that it is a flawed woman’s dream to meet a guy who will value her despite her flaws. Between the mediocre sex, and the embarrassment and shame when she finds out you’re ashamed of her, you haven’t done either any favors. Best to just pass over women you don’t feel are good enough.

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      • and then segue into how you’ve always found her more interesting because…

        … your roommate let herself go, you keep a tight ship, and you aren’t as plain [6.5] as her [8]. Simple facts, with no investment. How can I walk past you every time I come to see her? It’s not fair to her, it’s not nice, but it is what it is. (Don’t be so blunt and inappropriately generous to say “I’ve always found you more interesting” though. There’s a million ways to make that clear without being so excruciatingly on the nose.)

        There is no such thing as female solidarity. If she was shit-testing you on behalf of her roommate, it was for her own purposes and interests, not to defend a sister. Stealing you from her roommate is a (shameful) bonus in the hotter one’s eyes, not an obstacle. “He just couldn’t help himself, of course he’d dump her just for a chance at me…”

        Drop the hints with plausible deniability, stay aloof. (“Sorry you misinterpreted, I was just being playful.”) When she flirts in response, call her out on her treachery: how could you betray a friend? Frustrate her with teasing and refusal to verbally admit attraction even as every unspoken sign is telling her all she needs to know. She will do the rest.

        Matt

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      • This looks like a much better road map on how to proceed… thanks.

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      • “..no sucg thing as female solidarity…” is key. Women are ultra competitive over us, use it to your advantage.

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      • To the first one: “I wasn’t being ‘nice’, she was f***ing drunk.” (implied: …and getting really annoying.)

        Second one: I replied, “What do you mean, ‘she “actually likes” you’?” and she replied “I mean, she likes you!” (I parried her insult, and got her to de-fang it.)

        Third one: “That’s deh-finitely not the impression I got…” (she had taken me up to her bedroom, but I had absolutely no inclination to do anything with her, and walked out. The girl I dumped would either corroborate me, or would have to lie about what happened.)

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  10. Of course!!!

    Women enjoy being small or smaller because it makes us feel feminine. Even if it is relative petiteness, say being a 5’11 girl married to a 6’6 guy. Being smaller than your husband is very important because then both of you can appreciate the sexual dimorphism between you…..

    This is why it’s harder for short guys. It’s not anything to do with you. You make us feel big. That’s it. Same thing with fat girls. They make you feel small. That’s it.

    Hmm, which is interesting that it’s total omegas who are “into” fat chicks, probably the same group of men who have sick cuckold fetishes- men who have accepted their total emasculation by modern society….

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    • Well put. Additionally, I want to be the better looking of the two of the couple, adjusted for gender. Being pretty and on the arm of an ugly guy can have it’s own thrill, because folks assume he’s really got something going for him.

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    • trolololololol

      Like


    • “It’s not anything to do with you. You make us feel big. That’s it. Same thing with fat girls. They make you feel small. That’s it.”

      Nope, you’re right. That’s all there is to it. Short guys aren’t at a disadvantage because they are physically puny thus weak and therefore not able to achieve high status in a given tribe. It’s simply because he makes her feel big.

      Fat women are simply unattractive not because they displaying a symbol of “My insulin/hormones are going wild and this the end result of my horrible, horrible disease”, but because they are bigger than the guy. Besides that they are beautiful unique snowflakes.

      Like


    • This is very true about height. All things being equal, I think chicks dig a guy over 6 foot, and probably subtract a point for guys under 5′ 8″, but there is much to be gained by self-selecting potential targets that would be a good physicaly match for you.

      I’m 5′ 11″. I’ve only dated two girls over 5′ 7″. All but one of my LTRs were with girls 5’5″ or shorter. And I definitely got the sense with the girls I dated 5’6″ and up that they wished I were taller.

      As a rule of thumb, I use a six inch rule. If you’re 5′ 9″, you need to be looking for girls in the 5′ 3″ range, for example. There are exceptions, particularly with girls 5′ 10″ or taller. They are used to dating shorter guys. But the pickiest are the girls 5′ 6″ and 5′ 7″. They seem to all want guys 6 foot or above.

      Like


      • As a short guy, I can definitely say that most guys have completely the wrong impression about how height works in the dating market. They basically think not-tall equals short, and that is absolutely not true.

        Here’s how height actually works:

        Guy is shorter than girl: -1
        Guy is taller than girl: 0
        Guy is much taller than girl: +1

        Note that this is how it works face to face, on first impression, in whatever shoes/heels are being worn at the time.

        However, since the average height for guys is 5’9″ and the average for girls is 5’4″, not-tall guys will still be taller than most girls, even factoring in shoes. Thus, he is opening her with zero advantage; aka, his height is neither an advantage nor a disadvantage.

        When the guy strikes out, he mistakenly blames it on his height. But the reality is that he struck out due to bad game.

        Basically, his short friends have a harder time, his tall friends have an easier time. He’s the average, but mistakenly blames his height, because he only compares himself with his taller friends. He doesn’t even realize his shorter friends have a harder time.

        Like


      • I agree with you, however I think you are underestimating the advantage that a big, tall man has. Even facially unattractive men. If they are tall, broad shouldered, long-limbed, and even if a little overweight, they absolutely capture female attention right off the bat. I personally know a few cute girls who are with complete oaf guys, who aren’t strikingly handsome, who happen to be big and tall. Even though the girls seem to have contempt for them mentally, they are loyal to them. I agree with you that its not everything, and you certainly shouldn’t give up on girls if you’re under 6 foot, but there is certainly an innate attaction in women for a bigger, taller guy. Whether it is a father-figure thing, an evolutionary pressure to find a protector, or an automatic switch for female submission and tingles I don’t know.

        Like


    • I’m 6’3.
      Feelsgoodman.

      Like


    • Exactly so! I would hate it if my husband was smaller than I am.

      Like


      • Racist.

        Like


      • Wouldn’t heightist be more appropriate?

        (kidding , of course I know it is not a word )

        Like


      • I am insensitive towards the altitude challenged.

        Like


      • As I am insensitive towards the muscularly challenged. If there’s one thing I’ve learned since coming to the CH, that is I am entitled to my preferences, as they exist for very good reasons.

        If I settle and suffer, it is my own fault, and if I refuse to settle and am alone, that is also my fault. In my opinion, it is best not to settle because in the end, what you feel isn’t heartbreak so much as it is shame.

        Like


      • Then again, ’tis better to have loved a short person,
        Than never to have loved a tall.

        Like


      • Yeah it is.
        The current minimum in order to be considered a ‘desirable male’ in the US is 6’2.
        Anything below that is trouble.
        Cue screeching denials from the Game Boi gallery.

        Like


    • Same thing with fat girls. They make you feel small. That’s it.

      No. They make us feel nauseated.

      Like


    • Having had the same problems being strong that I have being strong + fat, I have to grudgingly agree with most of this. Two kids of men flirt with me: the painfully submissive (not in the fun way) and the supermasculine extremely dominant who are usually into some brand of institutionalized or non institutionalized but organized thuggery. One type is looking for a woman to be the man, and the other is so much stronger and usually bigger than me that they are unimpressed by my size.

      I seldom meet a guy who weighs less than me who relates to me as a woman. When they do, somewhere along the way it becomes clear that they’re doing something or are retired from doing something that involves an extraordinary amount of strength, endurance, or combat ability.

      When I was less fat but still a fairly obviously strong, fit woman, it was about the same. There is less judgement about being a very strong woman than there is about being a fat woman, and even being fat I still don’t catch much hell offline because of the strength, but less judgement doesn’t translate to more attraction. It just is what it is. It doesn’t matter what’s fair or what should be.

      Like


      • It’s not complicated:low carbs (including alcohol) forever, and no whining. Just like I have to approach 500 moronic bitches holding my nose and smiling until I get it.

        Like


      • “Just like I have to approach 500 moronic bitches holding my nose and smiling until I get it.”

        Yes, I’m sure it is very difficult indeed to find the one who is moronic enough.

        Like


      • Now, Elizabeth. What have I told you about the sarcasm? It is unbecoming a young lady.

        Earnestness will get you everywhere.

        Like


      • But it is so boring….

        Like


      • Heh. A chick who *doesn’t* whine all day has no IDEA how much quiet cred she’s getting from men because of that.

        Like


      • It’s not complicated if someone has been natural all their lives, but by the time someone’s glands start going haywire, or joints turn to jelly, it is very complicated, and there may be no livable way back to skinny. There can however, be a livable way to healthy, and this is why I give more focus to the latter than the former.

        For the average fat person who isn’t climbing mountains, swimming in the ocean, or sparring with Russians though, I wouldn’t hand them a crock of shit like “eat right and exercise and it’ll be alright”. It won’t be for years once you’ve crossed 200 unless you starve at something like 700/day for awhile. People who tell you they did it somehow else are lying.

        There was a big scandal some time ago about weight loss stories in which people omitted the surgery and drugs part of the story. I’m not a hypocrite. If it’s really important to someone to lose weight and in a hurry, once they know how to eat naturally, get the surgery or take the drugs and go from there. The willpower crap is just crap from people who’ve never had a substantial amount of weight to lose.

        Like


      • if I may be a little blunt, are you working on being less fat? are you okay with being fat? I ask because at 5’2, I have to work hard to maintain being around 115lbs ( I blame my Italian genes), even though an hourglassy shape affords me some wiggle room, I find I start feeling really insecure even when I eat or drink too much and I get bloated. I am not sure if it is low self esteem or superficialityor both that makes me literally freak out if I gain 3-5lbs, so I have a hard time understanding how people, especially fellow females can allow themselves to become fat and be okay with that.

        I’m not gonna lie, when I am not being judgemental, I admire and respect women who can still be confident when they are fat.

        Like


      • I am working on being more healthy. Being less fat is the gravy. I am okay with being fat though. I consider it a sort of battle scar.

        So it’s not that I view it as a positive thing, just a thing that I’m not going to kill myself over or take people’s crap because of.

        I don’t really believe in self confidence the way that most people would define it. I believe in accomplishing things one can be proud of, and living a life that enables one to sleep well at night. So I’m not a very good example or guide for most fat people on how to live as a fat person. Most fat people probably should focus on losing weight because being perceived as lesser causes them real stress that they don’t have an outlet for.

        For the most part, people accumulate fat over a long period of time during which they are depressed or have other problems due to being off feed. Those little things ultimately make a big difference. Some will need surgery or drugs to correct their weight problems in a timely fashion.

        After blowing up on Depo Provera and becoming hypothyroid, I chose not to take the thyroid hormone, get the surgery, or take the drugs, so I stayed fat. About 14 years later, I went natural and lost a lot of the fat, but am still fat. I’m cool with myself, but I don’t really expect or demand that others be cool with me. I only demand that anyone who wants to be close to me be cool with me. People who don’t want to be close to me can do as they please so long as they’re not in my way. If they are, then Nature decides who will be the victor.

        Though I am okay with my scars, I understand that same as if I were an amputee because of a war or illness, others are not required to love or be attracted to me just because I have a good reason for my defect. If what I am disgusts someone, it is their right to be disgusted. It is one of those things one just accepts as a fact of life.

        Like


    • One of the unspoken things a big man protects us from is OURSELVES. I’m 5’6 and 135lbs My husband is 6’2 and 220 lbs. He is way bigger than me, and although he has never said so, I’m pretty sure that if I ever cheated on him, he would not divorce me, but he would beat the crap out of me. Which I would well and truly deserve.

      A big man keeps a woman honest. There is no way in hell I would ever betray him. He’s just too big.

      Well, that, plus I happen to really love him.

      Like


    • on December 11, 2012 at 11:22 am Mavala (mother and wife)

      Agreed. Feeling feminine is important…I actually like a guy who is a bit shorter than I am… but I am extremely thin and he has broad shoulders and is quite big, not fat, overall… plus he is behaves commanding but protective towards me… so I still feel feminine next to him…

      Like


    • That is exactly what I thought when I read the study. Sure, fat isn’t as attractive as fit, but I think the other big reason for the arrangement is what you say. Women want to feel smaller than their mates.

      Like


  11. on December 10, 2012 at 3:46 pm Holden Caulfield

    Don’t forget that fat is innately disgusting, just more so on women than men.

    Like


  12. This post needs to be controlled for negro males. I could never possibly count the number of gorillas I’ve seen squiring around the disgustingly and permanently fat, both fellow negro and human. They seem to enjoy it.

    Is there anywhere in the world one can live in and avoid this sight permanently?

    Like


  13. Some of the comments at the DM original article are spit out coffee hilarious and I agree with Holden, there is something inherently disgusting when looking at someone who is obese, male or female.

    Like


  14. KUATO IS MY WINGMAN.

    Like


  15. Being fat as a man is only a confidence killer. Very few guys who grew up fat can have the same confidence (ie game) as if they were ripped.

    Therefore, no excuses. Even for guys. Get your fat asses to the gym.

    Like


  16. One problem: BMI is a bullshit measure of one’s health/attractiveness. Lardasses and lunkheads can rate the same.

    Like


    • For a guy (or a girl, but especially a guy), waist to height ratio is your best indicator of fitness.

      Waist / height = 0.45 for a male body builder. That’s a 34 inch waist on a 6′ guy. Note that the healthy cutoff ends at 0.5, or a 36″ waist on that same 6′ guy.

      Like


    • BMI does not work for men that are more muscular than average

      at 5’8″ and 189 lbs I am supposed to be overweight but I am not, my pant size is 32″
      I have 151/2″ arms at the bicep,

      muscles are more dense than fat – in laymen terms; they weigh more than fat of the same size.

      I don’t remember where I score on the BMI chart but it says I am fat or something which is beyond ludicrous

      Like


      • Spearhead did an article awhile back that revealed that there is no obesity epidemic if one accounts for gender differences. There is a women getting too fat epidemic.

        Like


      • Nah, both sexes are getting too fat. The government study is below, and it definitely shows the fat trend affecting both sexes.

        http://win.niddk.nih.gov/statistics/index.htm

        This is very easy to see for yourself when traveling overseas, especially to any city where people naturally walk or bike to work.

        Like


      • Certainly both are getting bigger, but not necessarily fatter, and even then, I’m loathe to call fatness obesity unless or until it is disfiguring or causing health problems aside of having extra fat. Nobody argues about the numbers. The question is what the numbers actually mean medically and practically.

        Like


      • Yes, that is very true. My husband is overweight for his BMI but that’s because he’s SWOL life 24/7. BMI is a good indicator for women though…I actually think it’s a bit lenient.

        Like


  17. I’ve been married 20+ years – both me/hubby were thin when we married. I’ve stayed thin – he is about 15-20 pounds heavier (still thin by today’s standards). Over the course of 7 pregnancies, I was easily able to regain my girlish figure – except for one time where it took longer … and hubby very gently made rumblings that told me HE preferred the thin me. It’s a double standard, I guess – but while I’d like him to drop the extra lbs, it’s not a deal breaker for me nor does it really influence how attractive he is to me. BTW, I also enjoy being feminine and the lone time I kept some extra weight, it was the lack of feeling like a woman (and hubby) that lead me to shed the extra.

    Worth noting is since I am genetically inclined to be thin (thanks mom) – and since I gained minimal and lost easily while pregnant, I was constantly on the defensive from my overweight ‘normal’ friends as to HOW (implying I was either starving or throwing up) I stay thin. Isn’t it odd that I would never ask “why are you still claiming ‘baby weight’ when your kid is 4 years old?” but THEY are ok challenging my weight??! Go figure.

    Like


    • You know the answer to that. It’s because being thin is a positive and being fat is a negative. For example, your friends can put you on the defensive for say, having good skin without doing much about it, but doing the opposite is horrific. Why? One is good and one is bad.

      Seven pregnancies? Wow. I am on my first now and thankfully have not gained weight so far.

      An interest note about thinness. It is more to do with your hunger signals than metabolism. Thin people are less hungry and get fuller faster.

      Like


      • “An interest note about thinness. It is more to do with your hunger signals than metabolism. Thin people are less hungry and get fuller faster.”

        I found that interesting – I am not naturally that hungry – compared to my sister who is pretty heavy and is always concerned about the negative effects of missing a meal, lol.

        Like


      • on December 15, 2012 at 6:50 pm Hugh G. Rection

        Leptin, and the bodies’ sensitivity to it plays a big role here.

        Like


    • Hi Liz! I love your name. 🙂
      Kudos to you on shedding baby weight after 7 pregnancies….Fantastic!

      Like


      • Are Liz and Life of Liz the same person?
        I’ve been married for 4 1/2 years and have had 3 children. I am 7 pounds heavier than I was when I got married. I don’t look fat but my body doesn’t have the “sleekness” that it used to have. I am 22 years old.
        I really want to get back into shape before God decides to bless me with another.

        Like


      • Since I have promised not to respond to you WW, I will respond to myself. No, we aren’t the same person. You are young and will get back in shape. And 7 pounds heavier now than before, after 3 kids in less than 5 years is flipping fantastic.

        Like


      • I’m short though and 1 pound on me looks like 5 pounds on a tall girl.

        Like


      • I’m sure you look amazing. In spite of my internet persona, I am insecure about my looks…every single female on the planet is insecure about her looks. With so much at stake, how couldn’t we be?

        Candidly (which you won’t get from me in this place very often), I’ve been around some celebrities and they don’t look anything like their pictures and they too (even people on the top of sexiest on the planet list) don’t feel secure. What you hear is more generally, “makeup!” (for this or that zit) and/or “put on the hair extensions!” It ain’t glam. It’s all bullshit.

        Like


      • Just responding to myself again…there are some really awesome women who have practiced natural family planning in the past (my “awesome self” has too, with much success).

        There aren’t many in this day and age, but I’ll reference Lillian Moller Gilbreth (she is the original mother of the ‘cheaper by the dozen’, they had 12 children in something like 13-14 years, the original film is available on netflix instant player I think, there’s an especially funny part where a neighbor points a planned parenthood spokesperson to her house as a gag). Also, Shirley Jackson (no one knows who this author is, but everyone seems to know her most famous work, ‘the Lottery’). She was an amazing stay-at-home mother of a fairly large brood, back in the day they darned socks and patched pants. She wrote a newspaper series entitled ‘Life Among Savages’ which has been comprised into a book (available on Amazon) that I highly recommend. A person of sardonic wit..very interesting, and engaging, and she knew what was most important in life. Nothing else comes close.

        Like


    • Tits or GTFO.

      Like


    • It’s because being thin became such a big issue that people are starving, throwing up, taking drugs, and getting surgery to be thin. Even healthy sized people were catching hell for being too fat. Nobody would be worried about it if it wasn’t being shoved down our throats day in and day out for decades.

      The teens now are in the first generation since feminism that is being taught that fat may not be such a killer in and of itself, within reasonable limits, but they’re still not being taught how to eat well. The whole issue is wrapped up in feminist ideology that fat or thin, preaches men and women are the same except genitally, despite scientific proof to the contrary, and eating animals is bad, and fat is bad so you should essentially eat more sugar.

      So you’re being challenged about your weight because people think it’s their place to challenge other people about their weight. Welcome to the club. Your card and pin number will be sent separately.

      Like


    • Seven pregnancies. Now there is a woman who is interested in the future of her republic! Have seven more.

      Wait, are you white?

      Like


    • Funny how much that pisses women off, isn’t it? I gained a ton of weight with all three of my pregnancies (like, 60 lbs!) and I also lost it. I weigh two pounds more after three kids than I did the day I met my husband in college. And no, I’m not naturally thin. Bullshit.

      I’m not sure what the protocols for posting are, but I write about why women are so goddamn fat at my blog http://www.judgybitch.com. I think it has a whole lot to do with just not giving a shit about men. Why not be fat? Nothing any man can do about it. It’s a “fuck you” to men when women, especially young women, are fat.

      And not losing weight after pregnancy is a very effective way of telling your husband he no longer matters to you. How nice.

      Like


      • You’re exactly right, JB. I think I was thinner after my last son, by the 5th month after his birth, than I had been since college (maybe highschool). Kids are outstanding exercise (if you don’t rely on the television as a nanny).

        If you care for your spouse you will take care of yourself. As life partners, spouses are a reflection on each other.

        Like


      • The media proclaims FAT is ok constantly and fat women eat it up. My husband has been perfectly blunt – he (and he feels men in general) are attracted to thin women. I have started to clue into the large percentage of very beta men that are lead around by big women — coincidence? I think not. I will check out your blog. ~Liz

        Like


    • I’ve had a ballooning friends/coworkers accuse me of having “disordered eating” for:

      1.Cutting calories shave off 5 holiday pounds before they become 20 (but you’re so skinny!)
      2. Skipping lunch if I had a big breakfast and/or am not hungry (you’re starving yourself! don’t you know that will destroy your metabolism?)
      3. Eating less when I can’t get to the gym
      4. Ordering a salad with 800 calories (just a salad?)

      On the flip side, if I treat myself to a burger and a soda, I’m made to feel guilty because that means I’m naturally thin, and other women can’t have a burger once a week and not gain weight. Please

      Like


      • #2. 3 Big meals are for farmers and people who do manual labor for 8 hours a day. I either eat lunch or dinner, never both. It’s not even about cutting calories….a meal is FILLING. Some people have seriously stretched out stomachs. They’re the weird ones, not you. Plus, they’re hating b/c you look good.

        Like


      • A fetus needs 300 calories per day. Many pregnant woman are eating for much more than two (and most aren’t having quintuplets).

        Like


  18. Rape!

    Wait, wrong thread….

    Like


  19. Let’s not forget the main difference between bigger men and bigger women: muscle mass.

    A 5’8″, 210 pound guy (if he lifts weights or has a labor-intensive job) will probably have 20″ arms and legs like tree trunks. Women will overlook a big gut if the owner of that gut has a visible penis and his arms can lift her over his head (Babe Ruth game FTW!)

    A 5’5″, 210 pound woman, OTOH, is far more likely to have habits like
    Sitting on her ever-widening ass
    Competitive doughnut eating
    “Liking” pictures of Beth Ditto and Rebel Wilson on Facebook
    Bragging about that time she got fucked by a blackout-drunk John Cena in Philadelphia

    Always remember, Rey Misterio (5’5″, 185lb) and “that fat chick at the bar”(5’5”, 185lb) are both obese. Which one is more likely to be seen in public with a HB10?

    Like


    • on December 11, 2012 at 11:22 am Days of Broken Arrows

      “A 5’5″, 210 pound woman…”

      Thanks for that visual image. Great way to start the day. You do have a point, tho.

      Like


  20. “Is there anything feminism ISN’T wrong about?”

    No. Thank you for asking.

    Like


  21. “Is there anything feminism ISN’T wrong about?”

    You’d be surprised how many truths are buried beneath the thick veneer of bullshit on feminism. To take just one example, a favorite phrase of feminism:

    “A woman can do anything a man can do.”

    We all know this is blatantly untrue, but with a little tweaking it’s close to the truth:

    “A woman can do anything a modern man does.”

    In an age where the jobs of burly union members are being outsourced to be done by little chinese girls, this statement is pretty close to the mark. Thanks to technology, men have innovated and engineered themselves into superfluity.

    Like


    • Yeah, right. Look at any field that requires even a modicum of technical aptitude or mathematical ability, and you can count the womyn on one hand. They’re just not wired for it. (No pun intended.)

      Like


    • All three of my brothers work in physicaly demanding, technically sophisticated fields and there are NO women on any of their crews. My dad was a miner, and never saw a woman at the face of the wall. Not a chance.

      Women can do anything a modern man can do as long as the modern man is in a cubicle. Even then, senior managers are still overwhelming male. Perhaps women CAN do office jobs, but they don’t WANT to. Nope. No thanks.

      Like


  22. Is there anything feminism ISN’T wrong about?

    I loathe the day something is found that feminism is right about. Because the harpies will hammer that fact to counterbalance all the wrong.

    Like


  23. So where does that leave facially attractive and bodily attractive men? With so few attractive ladies around today (most are overweight, and even the ‘thin’ ones aren’t necessarily attractive), and the female preference for less fit, less attractive men, do I have any other choice but to settle?

    Like


    • Move to Eastern Europe.

      Like


      • ^^^–This. Living in DC has only one benefit, foreigners. I haven’t tried to get with an Americunt in years. My last long term GFs were EEs and a Persian, respectively. I fucking marvel at what I see out which is average to in some cases very fit dudes walking around with hippos on their arm. How sad is the creature called the Western Male to have to deal with ego-inflated pigs are their only sexual outlet.

        Like


    • Not sure where you are coming from, but girls still prefer fit, attractive guys.

      They just prefer game more.

      The difference being a fat, unattractive guy with game is in a 1 strike and you’re out scenario, while a fit, attractive guy gets 3 strikes before he’s out.

      Like


    • Are you nuts? Women don’t prefer “less fit, less attractive men;” they just don’t value looks as highly as men do in women, and men can more easily overcome a bad boy/bad face with women than vice-versa.

      Like


      • I meant ‘relatively’ less fit, less attractive, as compared to themselves. Heartiste has referenced this study before, in which women reported greater happiness when involved with a somewhat less physically attractive man. My point is that as you go up the attractiveness hierarchy you’re going to find fewer and fewer people who are genuinely ‘in your league’.

        It’s easy for 5s to pair up, because 5s are abundant; 9s and 10s are harder to find, and so 9s and 10s face more difficulty pairing up with their equals.

        Like


      • Women that are “9”s and “10”s do not need to wait around for someone as equally as attractive as them. Looks matter to a degree, they need to be fit and healthy – that’s how looks matter – no one wants a fatty if they themself work hard for their body – guys and girls -… Besides, it’s bad for your health and shows you’re depressed – just lose weight and work out. No one is perfect, in a marriage people are going fluctuate their weight because it’s not all about sex. Maybe some of you here are so sex deprived that you can’t comprehend the possibility of sex not being a big part of your life. But most women aren’t sex craved losers that need to see a counselor O.o . What a woman of ANY “rating” wants is something real that is also good with someone.Women like being treated special, especially women that aren’t easy – which are the ones you want to marry, incase you forgot ( it shows that they have good morals). Praying on the weakness of others is not good, I don’t understand why so many men treat women like they’re almost a different species. Men and women are equals, if you want to get with the times…you will have to realize that women DO NOT NEED YOU. They want a significant other, because they want someone to share the rest of their life with and to love. Maybe you all are too young to understand this now, but later, even you will want someone special to spend the rest of your life with…That’s why so many people are married and have kids. Think about your parents… It’s not a crazy concept, and why trick and damage these sweet niave girls just so you can ultimately do the same thing you can do with your hand??? Or girls who may also love to have sex, why don’t you have sex with them? They may be labled with the term “skanky” or whatever, but really, they are just like alll of you. Don’t screw up the girls who are trying to do what they believe is right – just so you can find fulfillment in something that is so temporary and delusional.

        Sex is just a desire – don’t let it consume you. Not saying repress it, but This Should NOT BE a big part of anyones life.

        Like


    • I’ve never known physical attractiveness to be a handicap for anyone. It doesn’t make up for all short comings, though. Narcissism, for instance, is extremely unattractive. Do you own a loofah?

      Like


      • ” Narcissism, for instance, is extremely unattractive.”

        It aint’ a CH comment thread without at least one or two hamsters lettin’ it all hang out.

        Like


    • you can go gay.

      after all, sexual orientation is a social construct.

      Like


  24. Awesome, the Simple Pickup guys made it onto Jezebel. I haven’t even read the article yet but I’m sure it’s full of implications that they’re evil rapists lol

    http://jezebel.com/5967279/meet-the-nice-guy-pickup-artists

    I wonder how it’ll go over considering the Simple Pickup guys are pretty much the nicest friendliest funniest PUA types around the net these days…it’s easy to make fun of creepy Mystery and Tyler, but even to the mainstream public the SP guys are generally just goofing around. Plus they have an Asian and Indian guys of average height/looks who do well with chicks, so they’re underdogs busting stereotypes left and right really. I imagine the general reaction to this article will be a lot more “jesus lighten up” lol

    Like


    • Don’t let Scray hear how these average looking guys are doing well with women and busting stereotypes. We might have to hear another woe is more tale about the ONE girl that shut him down when he did a tucked up approach.

      Like


      • *woe is me tale
        *fucked up approach

        Like


      • lol I actually left him an encouraging reply when I saw his longer thread where it sounds like he’s actually interested in trying to figure his shit out. I thought he was just pissing and moaning like that Wolfie guy at first but it sounds like he’s working on it so good on him and I have to give him props for it. But my posts are all doing that thing where they don’t show up until next week sometime 😛

        Also the initial wave of “look at those evil evil menz” feminists/whiteknights set in on that article, but I’m hoping it spreads around and some calm rational gamer types lighten things up there. It’s amazing how they can ignore all the positive responses from the girls in the video and just pick out the really offensive shit to paint the SP guys with. brb video of 10 girls laughing and smiling and giving their numbers and 1 girl being offended TAR AND FEATHER THE BASTARDS!!11 lol

        Ah well, more publicity for them at least. I like their shit, they make PUA look a lot less creepy and weird than the Mystery generation did (even though Mystery Method is still rock solid and the concepts are still there inside all these different styles of pickup, the way of executing it back then was easy to mock).

        Like


      • Jezebel article made me so upset. They HONESTLY want their cake and eat it too. Can’t be manipulative and aggressive… no way. Can’t be nice and aggressive……creepy! They really expect Hugh Jackman to swoop in with an indirect opener followed by a compliment on how they have a unique sense of fashion.

        Anyways, my earlier comment to Scray got modded as well so hopefully he takes a read of this. I had one of those 1 out of every 20 nights out kind of night saturday. I got shut down by maybe 5 girls and opened another 15. None of them were harsh at all but even when it wasn’t positive I was still able to sit back and try to look objectively as to why happened.

        Scray, you should to the same. This girl didn’t reject you in as much as she rejected your method of doing it.

        -Was your body language to direct (were you facing her?)
        -Did you use any kind of opener? Or did you literally just come up and start dancing with her?
        -Did you have any kind of social proof at the venue? Were you seen talking/flirting with girls? Did your crew of awesome players come with any girls? Are you cool enough to go to one of those girls and say hey “I want you to be my wingwoman.”
        -What was your style of dress like?
        -Did she notice you checking her out for a few seconds, psyche yourself out, go to the bar for one more beer and then meekly come back 10min later?
        -What was your eye contact like?
        -What was your overall vibe like?

        I actually spent all saturday evening/afternoon just being chatty with my friend while we were out and about in NYC. Clerks, fellow bus riders, the guy who flipped my burger @ Black Burger, the two female concierge at the front desk, chatted up the group of girls outside the hotel at the cab stand after my friend opened them, chatted up my buddies group of friends from college even though I didn’t know them and didn’t see the point,etc etc.

        Did you do any of this before you went out? Did you try and start by just opening ANY girl just to warm up?

        And even if you did a lot of things right you still might get shit on for being at the wrong place/wrong time. Call the bitch out if she really deserves it but I ask you this this: If your approach could be better, and if you were to do it 100 times you would get rejected 70% because it’s not tight enough, then don’t get all butt-hurt and discouraged. It ain’t nothing wrong with you buddy just in the way you’re trying to do it. Separate the two from your identity/ego/whatever and you will have really awesome nights where getting rejected 5 times in one night ( yeah I know ) doesn’t phase you.

        You can sit back, recap the exchange and not take it as personal. It would have happened to MOST people if they did it the same way.

        Like


      • Btw Scray. Sure, if you are not good-looking then YES it is difficult to go with the direct branch game if you are lacking in other areas (body language, social proof, style, etc).

        Why not try other ways of opening at the club?

        I remember the last venue I went to this weekend it was very intimidating. Tons of amogs, fine women, I didn’t know the venue. It took me 5-10min to talk myself into approaching this 7 near the VIP section with her group of friends. If I would have went up and started dancing like you did then I would have probably got the snarl, the backturn, or the laugh. Or a white-knight orbiter getting up in my face.

        As soon as she glimpsed at me for a second I confidently walked over, paused,and told her that if she “was going to stare at me like that she might as well say something; I’m not just some piece of meat, I have feelings too.”

        The result? She laughed. Told me I was “crazy” and kept dancing; except her body was turned toward me now. I talked for like maybe 20+ more seconds before I could tell it died down and I gracefully ejected. I definitely fucked it up right after I opened but I did not get shot down in the classic sense of the term. If I did maybe 3-4 things right with my verbal/nonverbal right after then it could have been successful; but I was too nervous to be my natural smooth self in that scenario.

        But even then, no harsh feelings. I had over a dozen GOOD interactions that night and was legit proud of doing the direct and not getting blown out. You can make up your own line or whatever but there’s more than one way of skinning the cat. Sounds like you did the middle-school 8th grade dance routine whereas you just come up from behind and grind. Lord almighty.

        Like


      • ‘Sounds like you did the middle-school 8th grade dance routine whereas you just come up from behind and grind. Lord almighty.’

        Lol…it’s hard to hear anything on the dancefloor.

        Like


      • I think the whole reason that they hate PUA so much is that they see these guys as interlopers in the mating market.

        They look at guys that should be betas that aren’t worthy of their golden pussies and recoil in disgust that they will sneak on in there. Women want the real McCoy. They want guys that have it figured out from birth, they don’t want imitations learning how to seduce them.

        The real joke is that by wanting only natural alpha, these women have created super betas. The SMP equivalent of MRSA staph. They killed off the normal betas and only the strong have survived. And guess what, the super betas aren’t going to fall for your shit, they are going to pump and dump and never ever think about committing to some feminist perversion of a woman. Just as staph is crippling people with lifelong aliments, super betas will bring the marriage to desirable men to it’s knees.

        Like


      • “The real joke is that by wanting only natural alpha, these women have created super betas. ”

        Interesting theory. You’re probably right.

        Like


      • They look at guys that should be betas that aren’t worthy of their golden pussies and recoil in disgust that they will sneak on in there.

        True. Righteous.

        Like


      • Yeah man I hear you. I just think it’s a noteworthy failure of mine. I mean, most of my original post is about the -merits- of just approaching. I mean, win or lose, I realize that it makes you more of a man anyway. But yeah…hey, I’m out there. I feel fortunate to be in a group of people that thinks just going out and getting strange ass is important — most guys seem to just stand around and do nothing.

        Like


      • on December 11, 2012 at 11:05 am Hugh G. Rection

        Nice adjective you put in there. “Unique sense of fashion” might make for a good neg because it cuts both ways.

        Like


    • I’m tired of conversations between you two.

      Get a room!

      Like


    • There’s been a lot of discussion lately about whether “nice guys” can be rapists. The answer is no; you can not be “tricked” or “confused” into raping anyone.

      The More You Know

      /shooting star

      Like


    • The only thing you have to remember about the Jizzawhores is that they’ll never be satisfied with anything.

      In other words, Jezebel women are why Muslim men beat their wives.

      Like


      • …they’ll never be satisfied with anything.

        In other words, Jezebel women are why Muslim men beat their wives.

        I agree

        Like


      • Manjaw cunts like these are literally destroying the fabric of femininity and womanhood. Some one should jihad their fucking asses.

        …or perhaps a Brevrik 2 Electric Bugaloo would be more apropos…

        Like


    • Yes, the article did identify game as “rape culture” as you said.

      Like


  25. I’m not sure how you got “Fat Women And Fat Men Aren’t Equally Repulsive” from this study. The study says that women with lower BMIs than their husband were happier. This does not mean their husbands were fat. BMI will indicate a man with lots of muscle mass and relatively normal body fat is overweight. Physically attractive males have almost always scored higher BMIs than physically attractive females. This is even true in the current obesity epidemic.

    I think it is foolish to say they aren’t equally repulsive, especially since fat women will almost always have an easier time finding a mate than fat men.

    Like


    • I think it is foolish to say they aren’t equally repulsive, especially since fat women will almost always have an easier time finding a mate than fat men.

      They’ll have an easier time finding a mate somebody to dump a fuck in them, but that’s true for women in general. Unless the sow moves to a town next to an army base, she’ll have trouble finding a husband.

      Like


    • I’m glad somebody spotted this. BMI is a function of height and weight. Men are broader and denser than women. It is possible for a man to be overweight and have a low body fat percentage, it is virtually impossible for a woman to do the same. Even the upper category of female bodybuilders barely go overweight.
      Every time BMI is discussed on a women’s forum, plenty of fatties chime in and say how “muscular” they are because they walk their dog twice a day or some nonsense. Reality is, BMI UNDERESTIMATES true obesity (body fat percentage over 35) in women. However, men are about as likely to be miscategorized as overweight with a low body fat percentage as falsely categorized as a healthy weight with a high body fat percentage.

      Like


      • BMI is, for all its’ simplicity, a very accurate measurement of someone’s body composition and works just fine for about 95%+ of the population. The numbers only go out of whack at the very extreme ends of the scale, i.e. giants, dwarfs, body builders, who show up as ‘obese’ even if they’re not.
        But we all know that extremes are the Googlie Internet Nerds’ stock-in- trade……

        Like


      • Yes! I agree. BMI is a terrible indicator of obesity for men, but even women who fall on the high end of a normal BMI could usually stand to lose a few pounds. I think a BMI of 19-21 is ideal for a woman, give or take one or two points for frame and musculature.

        Like


      • Couldn’t agree more. I think its way off for men. I work out but am not a bodybuilder by any stretch. At 5′ 11″ and 180 pounds, i’m on the cusp of overweight? Of the guys at the gym, I’m on the scrawny side. BMI comes out to just over 24, or boderline overweight. Sure, I guess I could lose a couple pounds, but anybody who looked at me would think I was a slender guy. Not stocky, not even average, but on the thin side.

        Like


      • At 5’11, 180 (gong), you are right on the border of being overweight, unless you are a muscle-packed body builder/wide receiver.
        Ask your doctor.

        Like


  26. Speaking of feminism:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/gunmen-kill-senior-womens-activist-in-afghanistan/2012/12/10/956957a0-42a1-11e2-8061-253bccfc7532_story.html?tid=pm_world_pop

    As much as Afghanistan is a stone age cesspool, it does warm my heart a bit to watch how feminists fare in a country where the men don’t cooperate with their agenda.

    Like


    • I like how one of the first comments on that page is some woman saying 10 random men and boys should be killed for each woman assassinated. Even young boys are considered expendable to feminists, and then they wonder why the men over there are not willing to give them one inch.

      Like


    • Open season on feminists and aging baby boomer cunts! Pinch me cause’ im dreaming!

      Like


  27. Feminism is definitely wrong about junk food, portion size, and the effects beer drinking has on precious.

    Been seeing a lot of college age fat women roaming the gym with little cute pot bellies rationalizing that those twenty minutes of cardio a day allow her to have cheat days EVERY single day. Most women in the gym used to be fit, now most are fat and ugly.

    Like


    • on December 11, 2012 at 12:56 am Days of Broken Arrows

      It’s not necessarily “cheat days.” It’s that a lot of them embrace the vegan or vegetarian lifestyle and in doing so, substitute so-called “healthy carbs” for mean, and blow up like balloons. On average, I’d have to say vegan chicks I know are fatter because they eat this way and won’t question it because it ‘s supposedly healthy.

      Like


      • 20 minutes on the treadmill while being firmly Ipodded AND watching ‘The View’ entitles her to a triple-extra mocha latte with whipped cream and 3 donuts.
        100 calories burned, 1500 re-supplied.

        Like


      • The modern entitled female will consume up to three times her hamster’s body weight in sugary caffine drinks and ice cream in a single day alone.

        Like


      • I couldn’t agree more about the vegan analysis. I dated a vegan for some time and she was a bit curvy and I realized her sugar intake was quite high putting her at risk for diabetes. She didn’t eat any fish or meat and had a tremendous sweet tooth. She was a liberal femcunt and judged me for ordering a ny strip on our third date because she said I support animal cruelty by eating meat. I replied that her soybean consumption has led to destruction of Rainforest in Brazil and widespread deforestation.

        Like


      • Not only that, but soybeans have been implicated in a host of modern diseases. In any case dating a vegan is like dating a crazed liberal lacking any common sense.

        Like


    • The elliptical machine is great for low impact HIIT training or for the obese/elderly to get in some sort of exercise. For an otherwise healthy individual to rely on ellipticals for exercise without substantial incline/resistance is a waste of time.

      I constantly see young women on these machines doing the “zoom zoom” with zero resistance. The machine only measures how fast the gears are going, it has no way on knowing how much work you are doing. It does not factor in forward momentum. The result is these girls think they are burning 400 calories in those 20 minutes, when they are burning 150.

      The human mind being the flawed dopamine seeker it is, will justify that extra cookie over 20 minutes of easy cardio.

      Like


      • They are not even burning 150 in 20 minutes. The machine never tells you the truth about what you’re really burning. If you have good base metabolism, for a girl you’ll be lucky to burn about 400 Calories on the elliptical machine (or the treadmill) with a fairly high incline for about 60 minutes. That’s not much when the machine shows you 800 calories burnt.

        Also, 400 calories is about the size of a girl-size medium meal and a small salad, that’s all. So that 20 minutes of easy cardio only burns around 70 Calories (+/_) – that’s barely a cookie. That doesn’t even justify drinking a few sips of Gatorade afterwards.

        Most people don’t realize that everyone burns differently, and that the gage on those machines is not accurate in the least. I don’t do much cardio on the machines. I like doing strength training, Pilates, spinning, and Zumba instead. I am not looking to lose weight, just maintain my tone. I weigh 106 lbs. and I allow myself 2 lbs. leeway, that’s it. But let’s say I gained my 2 extra lbs, then I do cardio on an incline for at least an hour at a time for a couple of days. In conjunction, I watch what I eat so that there is a big deficit between the calories I consume and the calories I burn. It’s the only way to lose the extra lbs fast, before they turn into old fat that you can’t get rid off, like cellulite. I don’t think most people understand that you need to burn more than you take in. It’s simple math.

        Like


      • A toned 106 lbs on a 5’4″ body with blonde hair and hazel eyes…

        and a feisty debater that can hold her own quite well who is NOT a feminist

        why are you single?

        Like


  28. Quick question, since theres a great deal more beta and omega males (approx=90% of the male population), than they are alpha’s, theoretically couldn’t all the betas and omega’s get together and either:
    1. vote on policys that favors betas (ie, smaller welfare state)
    2. kick alpha’s out, and policys that require all the females to stay.
    I mean its certainly more of us than it is of them, and majority rules right?

    Like


    • Up until fairly recently, western civilization was pretty beta-friendly. Monogamous marriage backed by social and religious disapprobation of infidelity placed a severe damper on female hypergamy, and gave beta males a reason to buy into the system and put in 100% effort into building society – in order to provide for a wife who would probably remain faithful and children that they could be reasonably certain were theirs. Get all those betas pulling and BAM! Western civilization.
      The alternative is pretty clear – look at any of the hellholes in the world that don’t have that tradition of monogamy. When betas don’t have that incentive to buy into the system, they turn violent (Middle East) or just “drop out” by not making any effort to do anything beyond supporting their own minimal needs (Africa). The latter is, incidentally, what most closely resembles where we’re headed.
      But hey, enjoy the free poon while it lasts. The Gods of the Copybook Headings usually get the last laugh.

      Like


    • This is one of the dumbest comments I’ve ever read. Alpha-beta-omega is a generalization but the fact is people exist on a spectrum. There’s a bit of each category in all of us at different times. You seem to think we have a serial number that tells us whether we’re an alpha or a beta.

      Further, almost every man aspires to be an alpha, if they haven’t already deluded themselves into believing they’re a full-time alpha. They’re not going to somehow vote anti-alpha when that’s what they aspire to.

      Like


      • I pretty much agree with the ‘types’ outlined on the ‘Alpha Game – The Socio-Sexual Hierarchy’ blog.
        They all come in many different shades, and they work for women, too, if somewhat differently.

        Like


    • on December 11, 2012 at 11:15 am Hugh G. Rection

      I think the results of the last election pretty much answer your question. Given that the majority of women wants the alpha dick you are already up against a large part of the population (unmarried women overwhelmingly vote Democrat).

      Like


    • White knights gonna white knight…

      Like


    • That’d be great if it weren’t for the fact that women also vote, and they hate betas and omegas as much as they love the nanny state. And a goodly chunk of pedestalizing white knighting betas/omegas will go along with them.

      Like


  29. Good post – I must say that even in public places, fat men don’t repulse me as much as do fat women. Probably because we men are programmed to look for fit females, so unfit ones repulse us. Possibly this is also because fat women insist on rubbing our faces in their varicose-veined jelly rolls, with their sleeveless tight blouses and shorts. Fat people should wear modest mu-mus

    Like


  30. “Marriage is more satisfying when…”

    Getting stabbed is more satisfying when stabbed in the ass or thigh than in the arm or chest

    Of course, the most satisfying thing is simply not getting stabbed

    Like


    • This response needs more love. Considering this is the era of marriage 2.0, it is best for men not to sign the slavery contract.

      If you want a lifetime commitment, you do have to take into account that life isn’t always ideal, so people aren’t always going to be ideal. It’s not commitment if you can’t handle life.

      If you don’t want to deal with that then don’t commit and definitely don’t marry. If you do marry then whatever whims you allow the woman to take up, she will because women are generally more socially dependent. If you don’t go hard and stay hard, you will lose relevance compared to the herd.

      At the moment, the herd is telling women that it’s ideologically okay to be fat since it’s men’s fault somehow, but that they should get surgery or take drugs to fix it. If you don’t want to be married to either a fat woman, a woman on amphetamines, or a woman getting her guts cut up and rerouted every few years, go natural and make sure she understands this is the law in your house.

      Like


  31. Is there no accounting for age in this? I agree wholeheartedly that if you want to embark on an LTR or marriage that it is hugely important that the woman does not bloat up like so many do. However, young chubby chicks rock my world. Big firm tits and arses, tight pussy and lots of eagerness to please is a winning combo. My wife was a chubster through her 20’s, I married her when she was 30 and now after 2 kids she is fit and slim but amazingly her tits have stayed nice and full and not too saggy at 40. So I guess she reversed the trend.

    Anyway, just a vote for 18-25 pneumatic sex machines from me and a mention that really scrawny chicks turn me off and, I’d suggest, are often high T with small tits and no curves. None of you concede that curves are correlated with femininity?

    [Heartiste: I suspect you are a troll, but if not, here is your answer:

    Slender does not equal “scrawny with small tits and no curves”. But nice strawfatchick.]

    Like


    • Not that it matters to your point, but the girl in the first photo is very photochopped. I think everybody’s clear that most men prefer skinny women, but I do believe men go too far these days in attempting to socially enforce a preference that needs no enforcement. It overcompensates and adds to feminist pressure for us all to become empowered cyborgs with 12% bodyfat or less, but silicone implants.

      Of course you would generally prefer cartoon like perfection. This doesn’t mean that anyone who shags women who aren’t photoshop perfect are settling in a bad way. They’re simply accepting that women are not cartoons, and that even skinny women have defects.

      To me, it’s sad that a man would be asking for anybody’s approval to shag whoever he likes shagging, and doubly sad that other men would engage in the rather feminine pursuit of convincing other men they need approval.

      Like


  32. Is there anything feminism ISN’T wrong about?

    Some feminists like roller derby. Roller derby is ‘aight.

    Like


  33. Who’s surprised by this? We’ve all seen hot, petite women with doughy dudes. It’s not a matter of one gender being more concerned about physical appearance, it’s just that we’re looking for different things.

    Women are naturally attracted to men who are physically massive in one way or another, because being large and intimidating are inherently masculine traits. Men see things the same way and will naturally be turned off by overweight women as they too seem masculine.

    Like


  34. I have a question ,

    My girlfriend’s massage therapist was a female, she quit and now the only one available is a heterosexual male

    I told her I don’t want another man touching her naked body, or I will put an end to our relationship

    Am I right ?

    Like


    • I have no problem with my husband having a female masseuse. He’s coming home to me afterward.

      Like


    • Yes.

      Like


    • A masseur ain’t a doctor… dump her.

      Like


    • on December 11, 2012 at 12:57 am Days of Broken Arrows

      Learn massage. It’s not brain surgery.

      Like


      • That’s her job.

        Like


      • I do not have formal training but I’m actually good at it – she likes my massages – but she wanted an osteopath to try and do something about her stubborn back pain.

        she is convinced osteopaths can fix everything

        she started with a woman, but that woman quit and now it is that man who is not gay, thus not to be trusted.

        She is a hot looking woman, blond, blue eyes, she is an 8, her superb D size breasts could be on the cover of Playboy, I don’t want any man looking or touching her naked body as any man with a pulse would have a hard on for he,r and we all know what a man with hard on will want do to a hot naked woman on a bed that he is alone with behind closed doors……right?

        Like


      • on December 11, 2012 at 11:19 am Hugh G. Rection

        Compromise. Just make sure the masseuse is a faggot. You don’t want her to get breast reduction for her back, do ya?

        Like


      • LOL! A woman this hot can make a faggot turned on. I wouldn’t trust them either. They are only suppressing their sexual urges with women and letting them loose with men because they like gay sex.

        Like


      • There are simply no other female service providers around, so she simply *must* go to this guy? Seriously, she is peddling that?

        Lemme guess: Mr. Ram McStudrub is not some gruff, fat, bald, middle-aged massage therapist with good technique. No. Rather, he is fit, late 20s-early 30s and attractive, with a great laugh. Amiright?

        If so, you have your answer: she wants him, you foolish, horned cuckold.

        Like


      • Do you really think that your girlfriend is the only hot woman this guy massages?

        It’s not a hot, sexy industry. He would lose his job if anything like that happened.

        Like


      • @CF

        ” she is convinced osteopaths can fix everything”

        Are you talking about a massage therapist or a Doctor of Osteopathy?

        DO’s pretty much do everything that MD’s do – surgery, prescriptions, allopathic diagnosis, x-rays, etc. In its formative years about a century ago, the profession focused only on manual manipulation of the musculo-skeletal system – somewhat like rudimentary chiropractic – to remove blockage and interfence, thereby promoting arterial flow and hence oxygenation throughout the body. AFAIK, the rare osteopaths who still practice this non-drug, non-surgical approach toward healing do not need or ask their patients to disrobe or don a gown.

        Like


      • He is supposed to be both a massage therapist and Osteopath

        she only keeps her panties on…for a back pain problem…

        something is not right

        Like


      • Osteopath AND massage therapist… I never heard an alleged doctor bill himself as such… but then again, D.O. being the discipline it is… a bone-cracker who is allowed to write prescriptions.

        Reminds me of how the kid’s orthodontist used to fix cars on the side.

        Like


    • dude, you’re overreacting. a hetero guy can totally rub oil all over a hottie’s d cup titties without wanting to jizz all over them.

      Like


    • “I told her I don’t want another man touching her naked body, or I will put an end to our relationship
      Am I right ?“

      Absolutely. Don’t stand for it. It’s inappropriate and the fact you don’t like it should make her feel elated. Would she rather have a man who doesn’t care what she does? When you are fucking a fuck body, you don’t care what she does, but a serious GF or wife, no way. I would have stopped seeing you if you didn’t care what I did.

      It’s possible she wants a reaction from you, that’s all.

      Like


  35. In some old Woody Allen movie, the writer explains that a guy is most likely to start to question the existence of God right after his wife starts taking on the lard-flesh. There you have it, ladies. “Letting yourself go” in actual fact will condemn the man you supposedly love to the eternal flames of Hell.
    Have another deep fried sugary donut!! . Ummm- good!! Just loosen that belt and give yourself a well deserved hug of fat-self-love.

    Like


  36. White girl makes fun of Serena Williams

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/tramlines/wozniacki-hilarious-serena-impression-112139895.html

    I aint mad; imitation is the best form of flattery.

    Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

    Can anybody translate what the commentator is saying?

    Like


    • I used to like women’s (girl’s) tennis as a kid. Then those bead-braided, screeching monkeys came along and ruined it forever. Not even a sweaty swaying Danish piece like Caroline Wozniacki could bring me back. Forever unclean.

      Interesting how a stacked body like Serena’s could be utterly repulsive to me. It’s cartoonish in its exaggeration, and usually squeezed into tight shit that leaves nothing to the imagination. No subtlety, no delicacy. Her broad shoulders aren’t the only masculine thing about her..

      Dat azzzzzz! Badonkadonk. *retch*

      I’d say thwack can keep her, but I know he wants the milk-skinned Beckys too.

      Matt

      Like


      • Do you think the too-tight clothing plays into the black culture of overt, obscene sexuality or just a matter of convenience for the game? And when I refer to overt, obscene sexuality, I’m thinking of nine year olds ‘popping’ their asses, the women you see on the streets wearing clothes that would make a prostitute blush, the video we’ve all seen of the children emulating sex at a party with either no adult supervision or might-as-well-be-no adult supervision. If you have to shave to wear a skirt, and I don’t mean your legs, then you shouldn’t be wearing it in public. Save that for the bedroom. Granted, a lot of white people are picking up on that, too, now, but it seems to have started in the black community.

        Ugh, and NOTHING is more disgusting than a big, fat person, male or female, white, brown, yellow or black, wearing clothes that leave nothing to the imagination. Overweight and happy, fine, but wear proper fitting clothes. If your back looks like cleavage, don’t wear that shirt. cOVER IT UP. Ugh, so gross. Eww.

        Like


      • Granted, a lot of white people are picking up on that, too, now, but it seems to have started in the black community.

        I trace the sexualization of young girls back to one particular watershed moment: Sixteen-year-old Britney Spears’s “Baby One More Time” video. It is the Beatles on the Sullivan show for Generation Y. Bold minor-key piano intro, syncopated twangs of a porn soundtrack, a burlesque dance in high-school hallways, and jailbait begging with blinking innocent eyes to be abused “one more time.”

        I had observed this development during a conversation back in college, and one dude (white and herbly) said, no, Brandy broke the barrier. I asked, “Who?” He said, “Brandy, the girl who plays Moesha.” Could be true, but I never noticed. Maybe the negro culture has been sexualizing their girls for decades? It’s all a brown blur to me, tucked out of sight.

        In white culture — the one that matters — January 1999 was the turning point. Around then I recall a letter to the editor of Playboy from a concerned father who objected to one of the magazine models wearing a tartan skirt. Ha. A decade ago we still had some frame of reference why that might be inappropriate. Now the “Catholic schoolgirl” look is a whole porn niche unto itself and the standard uniform for strippers everywhere (but glows in the dark).

        Also at the turn of the millennium, here comes the coup de grâce, ten pounds of shit stuffed into a five-pound bag stomping into my beloved WTA tennis stadium, polluting the silent*, fluid, on-court dance between cream-and-honey Eastern Europeans like Anna Kournikova, Martina Hingis, and Jelena Dokic. Like somebody let loose two barking dogs to drop turds all over the Wimbledon lawn. They gave it soul, you see.

        Matt

        __________
        * Only Monica Seles grunted before Da Sistaz, and she was from the generation before, and that’s why she was stabbed. These days even the lithe Russian goddess Sharapova screeches, making her nearly unwatchable.

        Like


      • The black community has been sexualizing girls for a lot longer than BS has been around. The difference between then and now is the total breakdown of the black family. With the idea that ‘I don’t need a man’ is the disconnect that yes, you do need some support structure, which is where big daddy gubmint comes to the rescue. There was a piece a while back about the fact that you can’t say you don’t need a man and only mean it in the physical sense of some dude with a dick if you’re using the government as a replacement.

        If you remember the show Good Times, you’ll probably remember the painting they showed of all the characters as caricatures. Look at what was exaggerated on the women and the stances in which they were painted, especially the younger ones. You never saw white chicks in Nat Geo with their boobs out; that was only in those African countries, along with the men wearing nothing but a sheath over their dicks. Black femininity and white femininity are two different things. Serena likely chooses her gear to exaggerate what she feels is that femininity, which, to most whites is a distorted view. It seems to be a much more primal interpretation.

        I blame the movie Waiting To Exhale for a lot of the ‘don’t need no man’ culture of older black women. You can’t say you’re empowered just because you’re subordinating yourself to a different master- one who has no real interest in your general welfare. At least a dude will come fuck you every now and then; the government just leaves your money on the nightstand every month without even a lil’ slap n tickle.

        Like


      • +1
        Serena Williams shouldn’t be playing other girls, she’s a foot taller than they are and oputweighs ’em by half a person.
        That’s how she gets to just caveman-club them right off the court.
        Pit her asgainst Rafa, they can just grunt each other to death.

        Like


      • Yes but…did you know both sisters were beaten by some dude who ranked 200th or so, and was smoking throughout the match?

        From Wiki: In 1998, 203rd ranked male player Karsten Braasch took on Venus Williams and beat her 6–2. He also played Serena Williams and won 6–1 after the Williams sisters, who were 17 and 16 at the time, said they could beat any man ranked 200 or worse. Braasch was 15 years older than Serena and Venus, and had drunk 2 beers and played one round of golf that morning.[20] Braasch said afterwards, “500 and above, no chance” as he claimed he had played like someone ranked 600 in order to keep the game “fun.”[21] Yannick Noah and Justine Henin also played a match. The Frenchman won 4–6, 6–4, 7–6.[22]

        Like


      • Martina Navaratolova (sp?) once admitted that, even in her prime, she wouldn’t seed in the top 100 of the men’s game.

        Like


      • Feminism refuses to concede that there are physical differences between men and women. There are, and nothing any man-hating feminazi with barbed wire for a tampon string will change that.

        Like


      • *can do* will change that.

        Like


      • This is what I like to see. With more posts like this you might be a guest writer at the Chateau soon.

        There are more than physical differences though.

        Like


      • Agreed, Mad, but the physical is what this discussion is about. Even metabolically, a fit man’s metabolism runs about 15% faster than an equally fit woman; it has everything to do with keeping up with the hunt.

        Years ago there was a push to get women in firehouses. The pretense was that women are physically equal to men so why not? Then they adjusted the physical portion of the test for the women. The problem is twofold: They say men and women are equal but only when the controlled portion of the situation is not. It’s the same reason I disagree with affirmative action. You’re putting your thumb on one side of the scale and then saying it all weighs the same. The other is that regardless of who is diving into a dangerous situation to save a person from a burning building, that hose or fire extinguisher or dead-weight unconscious person weighs exactly the same. Those two problems are just opposite sides of the same coin.

        I always thought that commercial for a women’s weight loss product showing how the cartoon man lost so much more weight than the cartoon woman by doing a whole lot less was more factual than most products because it put, in layman’s terms, that men and women are just different in that aspect.

        Feminism doesn’t distinguish between equal and same on any level.

        Like


      • “Feminism doesn’t distinguish between equal and same on any level.“

        Oh, they know the truth alright, they just hope they can convince you of their lies.

        Like


      • Matthew King (King A)
        Interesting how a stacked body like Serena’s could be utterly repulsive to me. It’s cartoonish in its exaggeration, and usually squeezed into tight shit that leaves nothing to the imagination. No subtlety, no delicacy. Her broad shoulders aren’t the only masculine thing about her.
        ———————————-

        Its “cartoonish” to YOU because you cannot accept the phenomenon called the black woman; especially one that routinely crushes your precious “Becky” in court.
        From an evolutionary perspective, womens tennis demonstrates all the qualities men values in a woman *if he could only have one* That is the key to its popularity among men; that’s why you watch it. “Masculine” is a relative term; relative to the observer. Just because you are a pussy doesn’t mean Serena is any less feminine. It just means you would have married her when she was 14 because that’s all you are confident you could have handled.

        All female tennis pros (if they are any good) have pronounced masculine qualities because their craft requires it. The fact that Serena clearly appears more than capable of producing, suckling and defending a baby… just makes her more attractive from an evolutionary perspective.

        But only to real men.

        Womens professional tennis is not a beauty pageant, its not a popularity contest… it’s a war. Your flaccid comments about Serena are a weak attempt to compensate for and distribute your own insecurity about your own masculinity (what little of it you obviously have).

        Please miss me with that ball-less rhetoric.

        Like


      • Serena has said she has no interest in black men.

        Like


      • ‘Course not.
        She knows them.

        Like


      • At least she’s not FAT. Even so, any kids she has in future would be a bit like this critter here:

        Like


      • Thwack could turn her.

        Like


      • If I really want to fuck a white girl, the first thing out of my mouth is: “I don’t date white girls”; Works everytime.

        Matter of fact, it works so well I just pretend I hate white people full time.

        Have my angelfood cake and eat it to.

        (shut up Greg)

        Like


      • White guilt is the best thing that ever happened to the black community, it gets you anything from free pussy to free education to lower mortgages

        and it is the worse thing for us whites

        Like


      • I don’t think it’s a matter of acceptance. He just doesn’t like it. It’s you who has to accept that.

        Like


      • She is also dating Patrick Mouratoglou, who is her coach, white, very rich and founded some fancy posh tennis school, take away from that what you may. Patrick seems beta to me, there are pics of him holding her purse. I am huge Serena Williams fan btw. Would I want to look like her? Nah, but I think her body is “wow”.

        Like


      • Oh for shit’s sake. Serena juices. Period.

        Like


      • Yard Ape, you are fucking delusional. https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Byom9AuLNMyWUnlkUnQ2NGNoQjA

        Really? Really? As I said a month ago, you can suck her clit off or just reach around her hips and jack it off while you fuck her. Take your pick. This is a chick with a dick, like many She-Boon negroids. I work with some, did you know they have facial hair? Some shave it, some just let it grow because why not? Call me out please… Jay you are a racist liar. And I will photograph monkeys at work. Monkeys driving cars (badly), monkeys who were told they can do the very same thing as humans. Do you know if you shave a chimp down past its hair that there is not black skin underneath? They are sort of olive skinned like Arabs. So technically speaking, nig-nogs are some weird species that wasn’t related to homo-sapien over the long haul. Based on most of your behaviors and inability to maintain (if Whites build it for you) civilization or produce it on your own, it makes sense.

        You want to fuck black men, s’ok just come out with it. If you do enough crime you’ll get your very own “Serena” in jail. Men with bodies just about like hers. You know that awesome trend amongst “yoof” of letting their underwear hang about at the edge of their ass cheeks? You know where that comes from? My world, prison, where every Serena would advertise by hanging their pants off their ass for nigger bucks, again just be kind and rub “her clit out” nig-nog.

        Like


      • Whitay in DC
        “I will photograph monkeys at work. Monkeys driving cars (badly), monkeys who were told they can do the very same thing as humans.”
        —————————————-

        Will you stab a monkey in the back? You big brave white man you…

        Like


      • …You know that awesome trend amongst “yoof” of letting their underwear hang about at the edge of their ass cheeks? You know where that comes from?

        read in a magazine almost twenty years ago that it began with gay prisoners “advertising” they wanted to be fucked in the ass by doing that.

        Like


      • Only “real men” can handle manly women, thwack? I suppose that’s strictly true.

        I didn’t peg you for one to slip so easily into the “masculinity (what little of it you obviously have)” mode. Must have touched a nerve.

        Serena is a masculine, heinous beast that incorporates just about everything I find unattractive in a woman — including her bullying girls off the court. Martina Hingis was more my style, out-maneuvering her opponents rather than overpowering them. But it’s true, Serena was “one that routinely crushe[d] [my] precious ‘Becky’ [on the] court,” preventing my effervescent, underpowered, trash-talking-with-a-wink kinswoman from winning another slam.

        “Masculine” is a relative term; relative to the observer. Just because you are a pussy…

        This was my point. Masculinity is relative to race. But you’ve got some weird bisexual shit going on in your head if you think manliness is sexually attracted to dominating the manly, as though the more the woman is like a man, the more his competitive instinct wants to conquer her. It is rather the opposite. We want to protect the delicate. We don’t want a woman with shoulders like a linebacker the better to “defend[] a baby.” That’s our job. We want cute, soft, and feisty, not loud, muscular, and fierce.

        If not loving muscles and aggression in my women makes me “a pussy,” so be it. But that is the gayest thing you have ever said, and I hope it wasn’t intentional.

        Matt

        Like


      • That’s a weird thing going on among nigs. Most successful negroes go for masculine beasts. From Mike Tyson to President Nigger.
        The National anthem of Niggers should be Miss Independent by Ne-Yo.

        Like


      • Matthew King (King A)
        “Serena is a masculine, heinous beast that incorporates just about everything I find unattractive in a woman — including her bullying girls off the court.”
        ——————————————–

        Matt,

        I’m glad you made that comment because its a great opportunity to clarify a very important point for all the nonwhite people reading this thread.

        In a system of white supremacy, a nonwhite person who does not seek the validation and/or approval of white people will experience one of 3 reactions from white people:

        1. Fear
        2. Hatred
        3. Ridicule

        The white supremacy system is a parent/child ARRANGEMENT; it’s not a relationship. The white people who practice racism work hard to establish, expand, maintain and refine this system.

        Just like “King A” is doing here.

        Both Williams sisters are a lot of white peoples worst nightmares. Two black females who are the exact opposite of everything that makes white people comfortable with black females:

        Fat, lazy, incompetent, silly, unfocused, undisciplined… you know the list.

        Serena Williams is the exact opposite of those behaviors and it’s why white people hate her. How dare a black female validate herself instead of playing “mammy” to white people?

        Who the hell does she think she is?

        Doesn’t she know she’s a nigger?

        Both Matt and Caroline’s behaviors are attempts to remind her of as much; but what if she’s not listening?

        You might have to hang her from a tree?

        You might have to hang me from a tree?

        Matt, are you prepared to hang all nonwhite people from trees?

        Matt, what are you UNWILLING to do to expand, maintain, and refine the system of racism white supremacy?

        Because its under attack.

        Not by some out of shape surly negro postal worker; but by a focused, disciplined, competent, serious black female tennis pro;

        And me.

        Do you feel lucky?

        Like


      • I think matt is really nuts. I could see him after the gubmint collapse wing nets warn of/hope for, sitting near the empty food store with his AK with a sign saying “Will work for chance to kill concentration camp prisoners.”

        Like


      • And whitey’s on the moon.

        Like


      • Matt, what are you UNWILLING to do to expand, maintain, and refine the system of racism white supremacy?

        Whining is beta, but… your race is beta. Omega, more precisely.

        Like


      • Serena Williams is the exact opposite of those behaviors and it’s why white people hate her. How dare a black female validate herself instead of playing “mammy” to white people?

        Who the hell does she think she is?

        Aw, don’t go all liberal Democrat on us now.

        “Serena Williams is the exact opposite of those [feminine] behaviors and it’s why [men] hate her.” Fixed that for you.

        You are weirdly ignoring the all-important male-female component of this (and on a pick-up site, no less). I have no problem with Tiger Woods, Jesse Owens, Usain Bolt, Joe Louis, Allen Iverson, or Bo Jackson “validat[ing] themselves” in their respective arenas. So take that faggoty neoliberal phrase and use it to fellate yourself.

        If it eases your mind, I find Amélie Mauresmo just as unattractive, maybe even less so because of the jaw, beady eyes, and shapeless form. She has a lesbian chip on her shoulder just like Williams has a black-American chip on her shoulder. So it’s a wash.

        At the same time, it is true, I do not believe nappy hair, stocky shoulders, and purple-black nipples are objectively attractive, particularly in comparison to flaxen-wavy, waifish, and pink — regardless of the comical size of her bosom and behind. Sue me. None of that derives from your phantom motives of “fear,” “hatred,” or “ridicule.” It derives from sensory information, particularly the optical variety.

        Prejudice isn’t what’s keeping me from admitting Black Is Beautiful any more than it is keeping me from singing a paean to the musculature of Serena Williams, which I’m supposed to buy as “attractive from an evolutionary perspective.” She’s just manly, and that doesn’t do it for me. Further, I am attracted to women who don’t make a spectacle, forfeit their modesty, and publicly “validate” themselves on behalf of their race/culture/country. That’s a man’s job, and that too contributes to Serena’s manliness. Demure and submissive women give a race a leg-up in the sexual marketplace. Your shrill, forthright, stupid, and obese Obamaphone ladies don’t help their case. Orientals FTW.

        Seriously, I thought you were more honest than this. I suppose every race realist has his limits before succumbing back to the warm acceptance from the monolithic groupthink of his insecure people. At very least, cut out the “white supremacy” theories. You are not going to shame us by using white-guilt words, as if we were SWPL. A “nonwhite person who does not seek the validation and/or approval of white people” is called a “challenger,” as distinct from a “bargainer” like Bill Cosby or Oprah Winfrey.

        Put down your weepy liberal excuse tracts penned by your new plantation owners and pick up Thomas Sowell or Shelby Steele. Then we can talk.

        Matt

        Like


      • The base of all respect is rooted in fear. No other person can really respect you unless they fear at least a little bit in some way.

        So “hate” and ridicule can both be indicators of respect because they are rooted in fear. Not always, but enough for any person that experiences one or both to seriously consider the possibility.

        BTW, Both Tiger Woods and the Williams sisters are examples of what black children can achieve when they are ALLOWED to have fathers. So all you black men out there?

        Prepare to come under attack from the white supremacists if you try to funtion as one.

        White people may say they dislike lazy, fat, silly, stooopid black people?

        But they REALLY hate smart, in shape, serious, focused, intelligent black people.

        Serena Williams is a perfect example of the phenomenon.

        You have to train and prepare your black children to be comfortable being around white people who are uncomfortable with them.

        Otherwise, they will automatically default to acting in a manner that makes white people comfortable;

        This is why black people act like

        niggers.

        Like


      • As Freud once said, some times a cigar is just a cigar…

        And loathing is merely loathing.

        Like


      • What’s wrong with you? He just said he is not attracted to beastly looking women.
        I am not attracted to Serena’s because she’s manly(in look AND in mentality) as fuck. The thought of fucking that beast is as pleasant as fucking Mike Tyson.

        Like


      • “Its “cartoonish” to YOU because you cannot accept the phenomenon called the black woman;”

        Please. Serena is disgusting to watch. Men want to see pretty girls whether they are delivering the news on TV or playing tennis. No one wants to see an un-dainty female body, even if tennis is a war (as you call it). He doesn’t like black girls since they really aren’t pretty or feminine. It has nothing to do with being racist, just realistic.

        I don’t like black guys either and never dated one. They turn me off. It has nothing to do with racism. It’s a matter of taste.

        I doubt you date black girl either.

        He lacks white guilt that will make him feel he needs to say black women are on par with white girls.

        Like


    • It would have been funnier if she’d added blackface.

      Hilarity ensues!

      Like


      • More honest at least.

        Still Thwack has a point. You just hate us no matter what we say or do, so we may as well do whatever we want.

        I am so glad Russians are not generally as weak as American White people. The weakest, nerdiest Russian guy I know doesn’t find them masculine at all. When I tell him what some guys here have to say about them, he laughs and says this is proof most of you never lifted anything heavier than your laptops.

        Like


  37. The observations about BMI and happiness in this article are true in my marriage.

    Like


  38. Dads are fat and girls want to cuddle with and bang their dads. Moms are fat but you’ll never hear a guy say “OOoh you smell like my mom” in a positive manner. Women say you remind them of their dads or grandfathers and they’re happy about it.

    Women are deranged and sick creatures.

    I wonder if any study has been done comparing the likelihood of complications in a Father/daughter coupling vs. mother/son coupling. Obviously there isn’t much data but I’d still be interested.

    I don’t know any men who like how their mothers or sisters smell.

    Like


  39. This only makes sense is that being resourceful is a Plan B for men. Being a resourceful woman isn’t that important in the dating market. The good news for guys is that, with a bad economy, being resourceful would make him even more attractive to women.

    Like


  40. You can’t compare a man’s BMI to a woman’s; A healthy man will always have a significantly higher BMI than a healthy women: Taller = higher BMI, broad shoulders = higher BMI, thicker bones = higher BMI, big muscles = higher BMI, huge penis = higher BMI.
    For example, my BMI is over 25 (overweight apparently) yet I have no easily visible fat on me (I’ve got a visible six pack in fact), where as a women with BMI of 26 is a big fat hefa.
    Likewise, a women with a BMI of 21 is a sexy little creature, where as a Man with a BMI of 21 is not a man at all, but a puny little dweeb.

    In summary, I think you’ve drawn the wrong conclusion from this, the fact is that the ideal woman has BMI of 19-23 (slender and petite), where as the ideal man has BMI of 23-27 (tall, broad and muscular).

    A better conclusion would have been this – BMI is totally meaningless bullshit, especially for men.

    That said I still agree with your conclusion, that looks are more important to men than women. I just think this “study” is a about as useful as one of my farts…… actually that’s unfair on my farts, at least my farts are hilarious.

    Like


    • Utter crap.
      BMI works the same on men and women.

      Like


      • The formula for BMI is weight over height (squared).

        Since a man has higher muscle density, and muscle weighs more than fat, he is correct.

        Like


      • Yes it does work the same.
        It doesn’t mean the same though.
        Let me dumb it down a notch so hopefully you can understand:
        Men are bigger than women, and not just taller.

        Like


      • All the differences ‘twixt boils & grills are taken into account by the fact that they use 2 differmint scales (& not those on fish) after BMI has been determined.
        If you get this done by a (half decent) PT, the measurement sites will also be slightly different.
        Still, horrendously accurate. Deal.

        Like


      • I just took my BMI from the ‘advanced calculator for bmi ratio’ that ostensibly fields for gender. My BMI is 18.5 for a female. When I switched it to male it said, “you’re a pussy” but otherwise it was the same.

        Like


      • Isn’t that exactly what I said? That you need a different scale for men and for women?

        Like


    • on December 11, 2012 at 1:04 pm gregariouswolf

      BMI is meaningless if you are athletic. I am ~12% body fat but the BMI suggests that I am clinically obese.

      Like


  41. Women hoard cats because they’re simulacras of aloof asshole alpha males:

    Like


  42. on December 11, 2012 at 1:00 pm gregariouswolf

    Ladies,

    Obesity is unattractive. Yes, there are some men for whom fat is a fetish, however this is a small number.

    Men’s minds are not shallow. We know that beauty is more than skin deep, but pure limbic system attraction is not. We are attracted to what we are attracted to. We are repulsed by that which we find repulsive. Tastes differ among individuals but attraction is not a choice.

    If you were fit when you met your man and you are obese now, then the chances are very good that his physical attraction to you has diminished. No amount of shaming him into “loving you just as you are” will change that. He may still care about you. He may still love you. But know that he is swallowing his pride. Inside he is conflicted.

    The worst thing you can do is berate him for being superficial. If you hold him in contempt for wanting to be attracted to you, you will destroy the emotional bond that is holding near you. You will drive him away.

    Like


    • It’s not a fetish. It’s a consolation prize. Like beta White men and Asian women or Black men and their fat blonde wives.

      Like


      • >Like beta White men and Asian women or Black men and their fat blonde wives.

        Excuse me Beta white men and Asian women (How you can say that they are beta JUST because they choose an Asian women over a western one?)

        Black men and their fat blonde wives? Have you seen any, wait i haven’t being a black man with an Egyptian woman i can see why you say that and it doesn’t make sense because even Men (Or whatever color) choose whatever they seems attractive too, Not every Black man prefers a fat blond wife, but you’re a woman so NO HARD FEELINGS because you don’t understand Man’s feelings and their likings.

        Like


  43. Is it me, or does this guy sound like a PUA in training? http://ialwayschoosetheasshole.wordpress.com/2012/07/30/man-x/; this is what a guy’s PU attempt looks like from the woman’s POV.

    Seems like he’s getting a failing grade

    Like


    • He does seem a bit overenthusiastic, and it also appears that he did not make an alpha-enough impression on the girl when he first hit her up for her number.

      Like


  44. @Heartiste

    I’m curious to your thoughts on how this could be connected to changes in current reproductive patterns among high T / low T men and women

    “Scientists May Have Finally Unlocked Puzzle of Why People Are Gay”

    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2012/12/11/scientists-may-have-finally-unlocked-puzzle-of-why-people-are-gay

    “These epi-marks protect fathers and mothers from excess or underexposure to testosterone — when they carry over to opposite-sex offspring, it can cause the masculinization of females or the feminization of males,”

    Like


    • I am 5’3 and a half. My husband is 5’11. Anything above 5’10 to me is tall. I’d be willing to date anything over 5’8 but would prefer 5’10+.

      But it is also respective to frame. Broad shoulders and back are important. All things equal I’d prefer to date a man who is 5’8 and broad, than a guy who is 6′ with girl shoulders and lanky arms.

      I’m sure its the same for guys- would you prefer to date a girl who is 5’4 110 lbs but built like an apple (skinny legs/arms no waist, broad stomach/back) or a 5’4 girl who is 135lbs but built like a perfect hourglass and a nice booty.

      Height and weight are important, but so are proportions.

      Like


  45. Ladies, height poll:

    What is the cut-off height below which a man is “short”?

    What is the minimum height whereby a man is considered “tall”?

    I’m not assuming that you wouldn’t be attracted to a short man, or that a tall man is necessarily attractive, but all other things being equal, I’m curious what you perceive as short, tall, or normal/average.

    Like


    • It varies on the girl. To some girls, a guy of average height is a “short” guy even if she herself is a dwarf. Others see any guy taller than them as “tall.”

      I get I’m not a “lady” but I’m just laying all that stuff out there. As ironic as this sounds, it really shouldn’t matter what women think in regards to anything about men. Their words can’t be taken at face value because they speak a completely different type of english (or whatever other language) than men do.

      Like


      • Dwarf registering here (5’2″) my current BF is 6 3ish, my last two LTRs BF were 6′ and 6’2. Some of my tall friends resent me because I just don’t find anyone below 5’11 attractive in a “I want to bang you” kind of way and they always whine about dwarfs like me preferring really tall guys…oh well. I also like big men (like country boy big not guido muscly big). In fact I hate those muscle heads I see at my gym, you know the ones with the affliction tees and bulging biceps, gross. I like a little fat on my man with just enough muscles to show he works out few times a week.

        Like


    • My husband is 6’3”. i am 5′ 6”. He is really tall…I feel very short unless I am in heels (I can them my cheaters). I think 5′ 10” is tallish…if he were under 5′ 8” that would seem a bit short because I would be eye to eye with him in heels.

      Like


      • So only 5′ 8″ and 5 ‘9″ are seem average/normal to you?

        Like


      • lol. Sidewinder, you know it’s almost impossible for a woman to answer a question clearly.

        Like


      • I second madvillian’s answer. What girls say and what actually matters are two completely different things.

        Like


      • Basically, IMO…below that, a bit short, and above that tallish (tall is okay though, nice even…unless it’s freakishly tall which would be about the 6′ 5” point). I wouldn’t use the term ‘normal’ though…I don’t consider outside that two inch margin to be unusual exactly.

        Like


    • interesting… i read a study where any height shorter than 6’1″ or so is less desirable to women –the more he departs from that stature the worse,but the decline isn’t sharp. 6’1″ through about 6’3″ was the optimum, but if taller than that, a man’s appeal drops off sharply. there’s also a sharp drop off on the shorter end-anything less than 5’9″ .

      you’d think a woman’s height would influence her preferences. it does, but nowhere near as much as you would think.

      Like


      • This is why men invented the quiff.

        Like


      • 6’2+ = good
        5’9 – 6’1 = meh
        <5'8 = go play in traffic
        Height of woman irrelevant.
        Real world observations, no 'studies' needed.

        Like


      • 6’1 + up to 6’5 = tingle
        6 foot = good
        5’10 – 5’11 = non-issue
        5’8 – 5’9 = meh, better be facially attractive or ripped
        below 5’8 = height is an issue.

        Guys six foot and 6’1 do pretty good. i’ve never heard of a girl complaining of their height. I think guys 5’10 to 6 foot aren’t really hampered by their height. They don’t get any points for it, and their girlfriends probably wish they were taller, but they are still in the game. But in my experience, below 5’10 seems to be recognized as on the short side for girls, and while they may not care themselves, they perceive others as seeing guys under 5’10 as short. 5’8 and 5’9 take a hit but could otherwise do alright, but under 5’8 and I think it does become significantly more difficult.

        Like


  46. “Is there anything feminism ISN’T wrong about?”

    I agree with them that cats are pretty cool.

    Like


    • I nominate “Jeff” for Alpha of the Month

      Like


    • I don’t mind being called fat. I only mind if they’re saying that to insult me, they think I’d piss on them if they were on fire.

      I think the reason women have a problem being insulted in any way is because it’s a kind of breach of social contract, after which they are often forced to remain gracious. Since I had plenty of practice being Black before I was fat, I’m not nice to people who aren’t nice to me.

      This is not a happy shiny planet where people are tolerant and sweet. You have to be tough to survive when you’re in a category wherein few people are going to value you. When you decide that people who have a problem with your existence will no longer benefit from it, life becomes a lot easier, and their insults mean a lot less.

      Like


      • There’s another thing. People tend to be more tolerant of older women getting pudgy, because it’s expected. What drives a lot of us nuts are all the YOUNG sows waddling around nowadays.

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      • I don’t think a young woman becomes fat simply because of character flaws. I think they have low energy and overeat because they’re off feed. If it drives you crazy to see young fat people do what I do and instruct them how to eat properly.

        My daughter suffered from the same ignorance I did when she was younger. It was very difficult, once we I went natural and tried to take my family with me, to compete with external forces and her own stubbornness and depression and legitimate despair about the world she lives in. I won because of the strongest reality thing, and her being very intelligent. It was a struggle though.

        The thing that made it most difficult was that other women were set against me. There were the fat ones whose weight was out of control, who either promoted the extreme “fat and proud” or were chronic dieters in the wrong way. Then there were the skinny ones who worked insanely hard at it, or did extreme things for it, and promoted insane diets, surgery, and drugs.

        The former got together to accuse me of emotional abuse for not having cookies or candy in the house. The latter over pathologized her weight. I won mainly because mine was the sanest way. No need to stress over things, just don’t eat crap. It also has the rebel appeal, which in hindsight, I probably should have worked more. She’d have given up the sweet drinks she was sneaking sooner if I’d made it a sugar conspiracy instead of just sugar is bad for you.

        When you encounter a fat youngster, if you have a chance for a conversation, just give the information. Refer her to the Weston A. Price or a beginner paleo site. Teens are already convinced the world is against them. Informing them that the government and society is wrong about their diet would give them something to rebel against.

        Use your abs or ability to go for years without catching a flu as the mark of a rebel instead of having it get absorbed into the white noise of fitness gadget infomercials.

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      • “There’s another thing. People tend to be more tolerant of older women getting pudgy, because it’s expected. What drives a lot of us nuts are all the YOUNG sows waddling around nowadays.”

        Very true. I can’t stand fat women either, but I can overlook older women and can forgive women after they had a couple of kids not having the perfect figure, but a woman in her 20s who hasn’t had children yet has no reason to be fat.

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  47. OT.

    According to the research, reported on by Scientific American, which looked at 80 man-woman platonic relationships in “emergent adulthood” (read: twenty-somethings), men were more attracted to women than vice versa. Men also consistently and mistakenly assumed that their women friends were harboring a secret sexual crush of their own. The best part? The men surveyed didn’t care if the woman was involved in a relationship; their feelings and assumptions didn’t change.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2012/07/26/every-man-you-work-with-thinks-you-want-to-sleep-with-him/

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  48. […] been participating in the comment section of the post “Fat Women And Fat Men Aren’t Equally Repulsive” dated 10 December by Château Heartíste. I notice that comments on the subject of fat vs. thin and […]

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  49. […] Science: Marriages where women are thinner are happier. […]

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  50. I recall someone on In Mala Fide mentioning a Family Guy quote to the effect of: “men can’t be fat. Only women are fat”.

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  51. Hahaha, look at them:

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