Telling Girls You Were Once Engaged

If you are a man such as myself with a long and storied relationship history, it will start to worry new girls that you meet why you have decided to remain “single”, i.e. unmarried. You see, a former marriage, no matter how spectacular its failing, is a mark of success on a man; it says to a prospective mate he was able at one time to attract a woman the traditional way and bind her in the facsimile of a long term commitment. This is another one of those intractable and intrinsic gender double standards that whiners will just have to learn to accept with dignity — divorced men suffer less of a blow to their dating market value than do divorced women. The same is true of divorced men with kids, or single dads; they do not suffer nearly the same market value penalty that single moms do.

It all comes down to the biologically induced disparity in how men and women respond to the phenomenon of preselection. Men, being nearly 100% visually oriented in their attractions to women, couldn’t care less what kind of man is on her arm, or what kind of men used to be on her arm. They see, they like. Simple equation. All they care about is that she is unencumbered (or unskewered) by dicks present, and to a lesser extent, by dicks past. Women, on the other hand, rely heavily on preselection (when it is available as a tool to judge mate quality) in their attractions to men. They see he is liked, they like.

And so it goes with divorcées. Divorced men can see a boost in their attractiveness to women (as long as they avoid bringing up the ex-wife in reverent tones during pickups), while divorced women see no boost, or even a negative hit, in their attractiveness to men. Consequently, my advice to divorced men is to mention your divorcée status early in a conversation. My advice for divorced women would be just the opposite — refrain from bringing it up, and if he asks, lie. This double standard is so entrenched that even *married* men will see an increase in their pickup success.

This is why I have discovered that a man telling girls he was once engaged works to stimulate their curiosity. And female curiosity is the catalyst that speeds the chemical reaction leading to tingles. Why engaged? Because former finacée sounds sexier than ex-wife. It is pregnant with romantic and tragic possibility. She sees this man, once engaged but no longer, and her mind reels with fantasy of what went wrong. Was it irreconcilable differences? Did he cheat on her? Did she move away? Did he make demands she couldn’t meet? Did she die in a horrible car accident? Was there a vast cultural gulf? Did her family sabotage their love? What did she look like?

Don’t worry if you were never engaged. Lie. It is the sort of lie that is nearly impossible to detect, or accidentally expose. And it is the sort of lie women crave from men, and would not disrupt with arid investigative pursuit. Your job, as a man with a keen grasp of female psychology, is to lie and let her overworked hamster fill in the missing narrative. The best way to do this is to say you were once engaged to a French girl, for American women bristle from the imagined competitive threat of French girls. (When American women ask me who my favorite actresses are, I always mention Marion Cotillard and Audrey Tautou. Then I watch with satisfaction their faces flash a hint of sexually lubricative insecurity.)

HER: Were you always single?

THE DEVIL WHO REMAKES U IN HIS IMAGE: No, I was once engaged.

HER: Really!

THE DEVIL WHO REMAKES U IN HIS IMAGE: Yes. [Turn away, look pensively at the horizon] She was a French girl. We were in love.

HER: What happened?

THE DEVIL WHO REMAKES U IN HIS IMAGE: It’s complicated.





Comments


  1. I love that line, “It’s complicated.”!

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  2. yeah, just don’t tell them your “why I left my fat wife” story.

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  3. [Zomg, I spotted Roissy’s 2nd typo ever.]

    Btw, nothing is more insanely powerful than preselection. I’m currently banging a chick who’s fucking obsessed with me, because by lucky coincidence I banged two of her friends – one of whom has fallen under my spell. Last night she asked,
    “…Do you think Sarah is in love with you?”

    Preselection = Super-tingles.

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  4. What if you’ve just broken up with someone. Worth mentioning or will they assume you’re just out for a rebound?

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  5. Are you cribbing Seinfeld for your posts? If so, you forgot to mention that a finacée who died a tragic death is the biggest tingle inducer of all. Forget “it’s complicated,” and instead go with, “She died from licking toxic glue contained in the wedding invitations I picked out.”

    [editor: hey, great minds think alike.]

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  6. Hmmm. I think “baggage” if a man’s been divorced and has children–he will always be attached to their mother somehow. But, if he was once engaged, it does show an interest in commitment without all the mess and drama of a divorce. Also, the divorce thing is probably something that will have to be overlooked if a woman finds men in a certain age group appealing.

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  7. Do you people really think that if Roissy was the Game master he says he is, he’s have the time to write long blog posts about the decline of the US financial system(see: previous post)?

    He’s just some guy who read Neil Strauss and Mystery and gets his only sexual thrills from the attention he receives from all you virgins.

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  8. i might have to do this. i lie about everything else anyway.

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  9. @Kate: Your attitude is on the rarer side.

    I spent some time as a single dad with full custody. I had a decent job, and am probably a 7 in the big city but an 8.5 where I was living (tall, dark hair, well tanned white guy, athletic build, all my own teeth) and without seeking anything the sheer volume of pussy being slung my way was amazing. Of course, it didn’t hurt I worked in a hospital as the power plant engineer.

    Guys: if you are in a slump and want the ego boost of being propositioned by women all the time, go work in a hospital, even as a contractor. If your face won’t stop a truck you will get laid.

    Regards,
    Pol

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  10. *watches as a bunch of newbie obvious-virgins start running around dropping “Wow, you look like my ex-fiance” lines*

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  11. “It’s complicated” was gold when that savvy experienced in the ways of love and relationships girl first advised Roissy to use it in a somewhat different context, and it’s gold in this context too. (Hot hot girls use that phrase a lot themselves of course, in my experience.)

    Certainly it’s gold to begin with, not elaborated on even when probed. “Let’s not talk about it.”

    As for later on I’ve found from experience something that really works. “She died in a car accident. Let’s not talk about it, K”. Since it was true in my case. Well she wasn’t a fiance but a living together gf.

    Fiance would up the effect on girls a good lot, I’m sure.

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  12. roissy, hit drudgereport – you must have perspective on the mel gibson soulrape that is occurriing in the public eye.. .what does it say about game?

    for an alpha, mel comes off as pretty fucking beta

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  13. on July 12, 2010 at 1:04 pm Dr. Grzlickson

    “[Zomg, I spotted Roissy’s 2nd typo ever.]”

    And I spotted the 2nd thing VK ever spelled correctly.

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  14. If you were married, just don’t tell her that you got divorced because you finally had enough of your ex wife bringing home biker guys and banging them in front of you.

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  15. tunacanman, celebrity alphas seem to have a greater capacity for betatude because their world becomes soft and they are no longer forced to compete for things in the same way. well wishers and glad handers make everything velvet for them, so any type of adversity is a cold shock, but something they no longer contend with on a regular basis.

    that’s just a general point, i would argue that even if mel’s actions are beta (whining), the content of his message isn’t, and most betas wouldn’t go there.

    the most beta thing of all, is the fascination with tearing mel down for things he said in private. something every borderline virgin .edu guy in croc’s finds irresistible at the moment

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  16. [editor: hey, great minds think alike.]

    Yes we do.

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  17. “My advice for divorced women would be just the opposite — refrain from bringing it up, and if he asks, lie.”
    What sort of lie would be an ‘acceptable’ one in this situation?

    And is there not the risk that he’d think you’d spent years saturday nights in bars and riding a cock carousel instead of being with one person and watching come dine with me?

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  18. [dutifully raises hand]

    professor roissy, i have in my notes from a few semesters ago that you’re not ever supposed to admit you were in love. i don’t want to suggest that this is a contradiction in your system, but could you comment?

    [editor: you’ll have to tell me which post you’re referring to. i need context.]

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  19. on July 12, 2010 at 1:35 pm Vincent Ignatius

    This is essentially what I do. I usually use “We drifted apart” rather than “It’s complicated” but I’m going to start using the latter.

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  20. Unless your why I left my fat wife story is: “…because she was a lesbian.” That shit is gold.

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  21. Hm… not sure that a divorce is always a negative for a girl. Age is a bigger hit. Same with if she spent the last 10 years in holy matrimony or riding the c–k carousel.

    After a certain age, a girl who hasn’t been married sends up warning signs too. I know the over 25s are not in the interest zone of most guys with options, but for the 60 year olds open to a 35 year old,

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  22. as timing can be important, i think it’s important to mention to the noobs that this isn’t something to bring up on a first date.

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  23. Don’t worry if you were never engaged. Lie.

    Lying is really smart. Do it all the time. Great results!!!!!!

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  24. Oops posted too early. Was trying to say I think older women (25 or 30 and above range) are probably viewed worse if they never married or was in a serious relationsjip at all by age 35 or 40. Why? Espevially a stunning woman will be seen as having rode the ck carousel because well… what hot sweet sexy woman wouldn’t go for commitment by that age unless she’s a jaded slut?

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  25. By the way the Millionaire Matchmakers advice to divorced women is that in a way its a prequalifier for men (betas I guess) that these women had the sanity and personality to get a guy to marry them before. Her advice is weird but interesting

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  26. Fugazzi,

    By your logic, Casanova and every other lothario who ever put a quill to paper was probably making it up.

    Pol,

    That’s a good point: Go where the ladies are.

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  27. Fagazi-

    Are you named after the DC band?

    Roissy-

    You frighten me with how well you know the female mind, you are spot on.

    It works both ways though, as you know. No guy wants to hear of a past Italian lover of the girl he’s trying to bed. French guys too. They know their way around women. Pretty much all Mediterranean cultures in general are highly sensual/sexual. They seem to balance sophistication with machoism well. Again, generally speaking.

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  28. Divorced men can see a boost in their attractiveness to women

    Untrue. We all know that women initiate most divorces. We also tend to assume that married women who divorce men tend to be older. If an older woman leaves you, knowing that she’s risking not being able to find a better mate with her lowered market value, then we younger women with options sure as hell don’t want you!

    Divorced men = older women’s trash

    Divorced women = was probably committed and devoted for x number of years to her husband, thus makes a good partner.

    Like lovelysexybeauty said, if she’s never been married/in a serious relationship, people are just going to assume she has tons of flings.

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  29. I had two women(basically strangers) stay at my apartment for two days on their across-country road-trip.

    Here’s the deal. I isolated the great looking one and banged her the night before they left. She mentioned that she could possibly be coming back through the city in a couple months on her way back, without her friend.

    I’ve known her for basically a day and a half. Have not talked to her since she left(2 1/2 weeks) and I have no experience with one night stands where the chick leaves the region the next morning.

    How would I communicate with her while using the most alpha behavior, to get her ass back here?

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  30. @Sniper
    “We also tend to assume that married women who divorce men tend to be older”
    IMHO that would be a wrong assumption, if you look at the statistics, more likely to be younger. Also women who marry at the youngest ages are most likely to divorce.

    “Divorced men = older women’s trash”
    I’d disagree with that. The divorced men I know tend to be great guys who got married quite young (25-30, now 38-45), most of them natural alphas. Looking at the women they’re getting involved with now, it’s mainly women who’ve been married. I’m thinking of about 15 guys here but obviously but this is a personal example and I can’t claim it’s replicative of the overall market.

    And I’m waiting for bated breath for the advice for divorced women and what ‘acceptable’ lie they should say 🙂

    “Like lovelysexybeauty said, if she’s never been married/in a serious relationship, people are just going to assume she has tons of flings”
    I got the impression that lovelysexybeauty was saying it was about age rather than anything else and one may as well be riding the ‘cock carousel’ as in a relationship with one person (damn, all those seedy bars and STDs I missed out on).

    @lovelysexybeauty
    “By the way the Millionaire Matchmakers advice to divorced women is that in a way its a prequalifier for men (betas I guess) that these women had the sanity and personality to get a guy to marry them before. Her advice is weird but interesting”
    I don’t think it’s weird, I remember reading that divorced 30+ women were more likely to marry (again) than women who’d never been married. I don’t think it’s a beta thing, see above. Think it’s more likely to be with someone who has been married before though, I think the least likely would be with a beta who had not been married before, perhaps a ‘herb’ or omega would be more likely if you were desperate. Personally, I think the most likely factor is expectations, a lot of 35+ women who have never been married seem to have crazy expectations (IMHO).

    As an aside and back to the original topic, when I got married and started wearing a wedding ring on, the number of approaches I got did not decrease.

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  31. Common wisdom among many women is that if a guy doesn’t marry by his late 30s, he probably never will. Backed up by countless Cosmo mags everywhere along with social research (reported in those same mass market mags)

    So Roissy is wise to seem like he came *this close*. Even George Clooney was married once
    .. berlosconi multiple times

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  32. @Sniper: If women initiate most divorces, wouldn’t divorced woman mean fickle bitch?

    Seriously, you have it backwards. Preselection works much more in men’s favor than women’s favor. And, since most women realize that divorces are initiated by women for the most shallow and vain of reasons, a divorced man is a much better catch than a divorced woman.

    Regards,
    Pol

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  33. on July 12, 2010 at 3:38 pm namae nanka

    “Divorced men = older women’s trash

    Divorced women = was probably committed and devoted for x number of years to her husband, thus makes a good partner.”

    lmao
    omg sniper thanks for the laugh

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  34. on July 12, 2010 at 3:40 pm namae nanka

    and it gets even funnier when contrasted with the faces you make

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  35. This nails it, with one caveat: the dude must be alpha about describing (or better yet, alluding to) the divorce or former engagement.

    I didn’t discover game until after it was too late to save my own marriage. I’m not that great at game now – I’d give myself a green belt or so. But the divorce card works wonders.

    My guess is that it lets a woman know you *can* play the role of beta, even as you’re acting alpha around here. To a woman, the idea that she can crack your alpha shell and get to the gooey, caramel-flavored beta inside is like catnip. Suddenly it becomes a challenge and competition to see whether she can be the one who makes you long for love again… [stare pensively into middle distance here].

    The other GREAT thing about the divorce/engagement card is that, assuming the girl pulled it out of you somehow and it’s not a complete nonsequitur, their response is a dead giveaway indicator of interest. Example:

    Confidunce: I love dogs. I miss my dog.

    Girl: Awww, did your dog die?

    Confidunce: No, ex-wife got her in the divorce.

    Girl: How sad! Do you talk to your ex- very often?

    *****

    Now why would she ask me that?

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  36. well Citizen Renegade, since April I’m playing the engaged game and it’s working.
    Engaged game give you the ultimate confidence which you need when facing vagina. But your inner game has to be strong to support the whole con.
    I tried seduction on two chicks who both had boyfriends. Seduction was going smoothly. They didn’t mind the fact that I was “engaged”. I had to drop both cases for bad luck circumstances. But now I will be pulling the trick again on other ones.
    In engaged game you don’t need to state explicitely that you are engaged. The ring gives a partial answer. Chicks directly notice the ring, and I don’t need to state the fact I am engaged. Sometimes, when asked if I am engaged I also give an ambiguous answer. It keeps them wanting and wondering.

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  37. and about dead fiancees. one guy I know while seducing a single divorced chick told her that his wife died and that he doesn’t have anybody to take care of him (in reality his wife is alive). the divorced chick fell for the trick. I think you can file this under vulnerability game.

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  38. @namae nanka
    She’s young, give her some leeway. That’s what you have to do when you play with the younger.

    @Sexy Pterodactyl
    LOL, perfect timing, I was wondering earlier today what happened to you and here you are. But I would never want to control you..promise..x 😉

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  39. I mean, it depends on the reason you were divorced. Pre selection is not an incremental benefit here since the new girl you are talking to feels comfortable enough to have a relatively personal conversation with you. Even without the divorce mention, you are probably 70% on the path to sex.

    If you are divorced for a good reason, then you might get some small benefit, but if, as is more likely, you were divorced because you were beta, then you will lose benefit.

    Girls understand chick speak better than guys do, so you better be careful which reason you give to explain your divorce.

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  40. @Nestorius
    Out of interest, which country do you live in? The only country I can think of where men wear engagement rings is Sweden (but they don’t then get a wedding ring) so just curiosity question to expand my general knowledge.

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  41. @anoukange,
    as you say “Pretty much all Mediterranean cultures in general are highly sensual/sexual. They seem to balance sophistication with machoism well.”
    your conclusion is not inaccurate. i tell you as a mediterranean myself.
    you look so eager to try it. well then come to Beirut and try it.

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  42. @ Lily,
    Lebanon. everyone here wears engagement rings.

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  43. @Nestorius

    Thanks for the info. What does a male engagement ring look like and do you also get a wedding ring? (I did do a quick google but couldn’t find anything quickly).

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  44. Being alpha about being divorced, in my experience, has been a huge plus. As soon as they hear I’m divorced, I get a bonus in any pickup attempt, especially if it’s a long-boil attempt.

    Even better is if I’m with an impressive girl at the moment, but nothing has happened yet. Or if I’m busy dating around.

    As for not settling: If you’re unmarried or otherwise unaccountably single past 30, it definitely raised eyebrows with women.

    I get lots of questions about my ex-wife – which I answer vaguely or thematically, echoing a note of confidence and Alpha wherever possible; *ALWAYS* mixed in with a (genuine, in my case) note of sadness, such that it’s obvious I’ve got a heart. Not the time to seem like a jerk.

    Just make it seem like, appropriately, another woman had you and she lost you somehow, and whether or not it seemed like that at the time, that’s how it worked out.

    PS – my ex-wife has been single and without a man now for at least two years; I can’t know, but I suspect the Hot Alpha Train has dried up, as I never, ever see her with a man at the few functions I still meet her at, and her social networking status is still set to single. I’ve been multply non-single for all but the first 11 months of my divorce recovery of 6+/- years.

    It’s much, much easier for men post-divorce than it is for women, unless they’re lined up their replacement first. I can probably keep this going into my mid-40’s, whereas she definitely won’t be able to. When I married her, she was a solid 7, and now is a good, respectable 6.

    I haven’t been seen anywhere near her without a woman much,much more attractive than she is in years.

    * Of interest: Exes are profoundly interested in what their former partners are up to, in relationship-terms. After showing up with my current (Much, much hotter) belle in public and meeting my ex, which I usually do 2-3 times a year, the ex has been noticeably more solicitous on facebook and with errant questions.

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  45. I’ve been using the “I was once engaged line” for a few years now, (since I really was engaged/no intention to marry/did it to make her happy).

    If you get to the age of 40 (like myself) you have to say you were once engaged, there’s no choice. In fact, you probably should have been engaged at least once. It’s going to be awfully hard to pull if you’ve never been ‘preselected’.

    I’ll take the advice about using a French woman as the locus of the lie, however. Fucking brilliant. Demonstration of High Value at its finest. My ex was Thai. But French, now that isn’t just High Value, that’s High Class.

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  46. With women, pre-selection seems to be far more important than I ever thought it was.

    Recent experience bears this out.

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  47. ALPHA SUBMISSION:

    The man federal authorities say was targeted by his ex-wife in a murder-for-hire plot says the most insulting part is that she only was willing to pay $2,000 to have him killed. He then goes on to talk about his numerous affairs and the threesome he will be having later that day while he taunts his ex-wife in jail.

    Here’s the interview:

    http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/target-of-alleged-murder-for-hire-plot-talks-about-ex-wife

    Hilarious stuff.

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  48. But watch out for the messy divorce stories. They can scream Beta and that you’re too complicated to be worth it, if you’re after anything more than a one-night.

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  49. on July 12, 2010 at 4:31 pm greatbooksformen

    lozlzlzlzozoz yah i was once engage lzozlzl but then she lost my playtstaion contoller when she had her fiends over to watch the twilight dvd and so i freaked out and borke it off lzozlzl and ever sinece then i have been afraid to get close and open up with womenz lzozlzlzllz

    usually after i say this they take pity on me and stroke my penis until it goes jiziziziziizallizizizizilozlzlzozlzozlzlzozl

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  50. on July 12, 2010 at 4:33 pm Vincent Ignatius

    @lovelysexybeauty
    Hm… not sure that a divorce is always a negative for a girl.

    I think it probably is always a negative, though you’re right that age is far more important.

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  51. @Lily,
    engagement ring is put on the right hand, wedding ring on the left hand. both rings are usually golden circles. Muslims usually wear silver rings, Christians and Druzes golden rings. but there are many exceptions.

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  52. The “it’s complicated” line is one of the best trump/joker cards a man can use!

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  53. @Nestorius
    So when a man gets married, you get another ring and wear one on each hand?

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  54. Swoon @ Sexy Pterodactyl

    Just in passing, I don’t expect recognition.

    *lowers eyes and does not gaze directly at the alpha Pterodactyl*

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  55. Lily–

    @Sniper
    “We also tend to assume that married women who divorce men tend to be older”

    IMHO that would be a wrong assumption, if you look at the statistics, more likely to be younger. Also women who marry at the youngest ages are most likely to divorce.

    You’re right as far as that goes. However younger men are even more likely to get divorced. I.e. when a 23yo girl marries a 10 year older guy she’s less likely to get divorced than if married to one her own age.

    The feminist implication is that girls who marry “too young” (i.e from their point of view before their late 20s anyway) either i) weren’t mature enough or ii) discovered weren’t really ready to settle down in a sexually free age.

    There’s more divorce down the SES scale than up it, at least among whites. Blacks down the SES scale often don’t get married. Marriages at less than 22 tend to be down the SES scale in the US, given all the career and feminist messages more operative up it.

    As well marriages at ages below 22 often involve unplanned pregnancies. Often these are situations where one or both partners really didn’t love the other or wish to form a partnership beyond the kid pressure. Further these days unlike previously they don’t tend to feel nearly as much social or cultural pressure to make the marriage work. As e.g. happens much more in arranged or semi arranged marriage cultures, e.g. traditional India or Arab ones.

    Finally, when there isn’t a kid involved or that much money or house wealth accumulated, divorce can be a lot less traumatic for young couples, particularly if it’s a short marriage. Not so terribly different for the many from splitting up after living together outside of marriage.

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  56. @Doug1
    As you probably know by now, I have no feminist agenda but was curious at ‘I.e. when a 23yo girl marries a 10 year older guy she’s less likely to get divorced than if married to one her own age.’ Can you point me somewhere for some info on this? I had a quick google but just got some from England and CZ which on first glance gave impression not much difference.

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  57. Pol Mordreth,

    “@Kate: Your attitude is on the rarer side.”

    It probably is. The circumstances surrounding the whole thing, as well as how many times he’s been divorced, would contribute more to any red flags. I know a serial marrier, and there is definitely a reason he keeps getting divorced.

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  58. @Kate
    I’ll take a 42 year old natural alpha who was married once from age 25-40 with a couple of kids over a 35 year old player who hasn’t had a relationship over 6 months any day…(and in likelihood was some sort of harem thing). There’s a difference between having options and feeling the need to shag every option going..;-)

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  59. @Sexy Pterodactyl
    That would hardly be trading up from you, the winged god.

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  60. “Untrue. We all know that women initiate most divorces. We also tend to assume that married women who divorce men tend to be older. If an older woman leaves you, knowing that she’s risking not being able to find a better mate with her lowered market value, then we younger women with options sure as hell don’t want you!”

    Sniper’s comment makes a lot of sense if you are an older guy trying to game a woman under 25.

    For those women, talking a lot about a past divorce will just make the age difference between you & her seem bigger since the young woman will most likely never have been married, and endlessly talking about your ex-wife will just make the young girl want to gag.

    If you are divorced, briefly mention it but DON’T dwell on it.

    P.S.

    Roissy, from reading your posts, I kind of get the idea that you no longer go for younger women (under 25).

    What is the age range you normally date nowadays?

    [editor: early 20s to early 30s. i wouldn’t mind dating more early 30s babes, but for whatever reason i wind up attracting more of the younger girls. it must be my bold and confident immaturity.]

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  61. @ Pol

    If women initiate most divorces, wouldn’t divorced woman mean fickle bitch?

    It doesn’t matter why the woman divorces him. Assuming that marriage is ideal for women (provided for, protection, stability, commitment), if a woman leaves all this and takes a hit to her market value by becoming a single mom, then he probably really sucks and is likely a flaming beta.

    Women want men who are currently taken. Not taken a long time ago, used up, and then thrown away. That’s just gross.

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  62. @ Lily,
    no, they move it to the other hand.

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  63. @Nestorius
    Thank you for the info! Interesting, same as Sweden.

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  64. I’ve kept this under wraps for quite a while, but should start trying it.

    In Hong Kong culture a local guy who was never married and is pushing 40 or more and never maried is considered a loser.

    When I’ve mentioned being married, to a Japanese woman, to Chinese women my status has gone way up.

    The questions then start: “Why didn’t it work?”

    Until your “it’s complicated” post I would fumble through this.

    Interestingly, when I first became separated a few years back and was telling girls I was meeting I was separated (technically still married) far from scaring them off, I would nearly always get banged—hard.

    The response was generally the same “It’s ok, it means you have experience.”

    It’s better if you don’t have kids, which I don’t.

    I’ve started droppoing this lately.

    The shit-test is “Why aren’t you married?”

    Response: “Once is enough…” change subject.

    Reaction: usually wide-eyed attraction.

    I haven’t tried this much since I learned about game, but will start injecting it.

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  65. on July 12, 2010 at 6:55 pm The Rational Male

    “What, are you going soft? Early 30s women frequently don’t look that much worse than younger women (it’s more a sense of what is coming that is so horrible), but their bodies just don’t feel near as good.”

    Depends. The chick I’m with right now is 33 but she’s tighter than most 21 year olds I’ve been with. Smooth, creamy skin too.

    Good genes are key.

    Like


  66. @Lily,

    42 year old natural alpha who was married once from age 25-40 with a couple of kids over a 35 year old player who hasn’t had a relationship over 6 months any day…

    YOU FORGOT ABOUT 41 YR OLD UPPER BETAS WHO WERE ENGAGED 36 – 39 WITH NO KIDS!!!

    WHAT THE HELL AM I, CHOPPED LIVER????

    Like


  67. I recall crazyshoe’s reference but I don’t recall the post.

    The context of it is by claiming never to have been in love, you give the girl a trailblazing opportunity to be a ‘first’ in your life. If you’ve been in love before, she has far less to strive for, and is put off by the emotional sloppy seconds.

    [editor: i see. yeah, that was roosh who wrote that. there may be some merit to that thinking, but if you are an older man (above 30 let’s say) then it might seem strange to a woman you are dating to tell her you were never in love before.]

    Like


  68. It was Roosh that recommended never telling a girl you were in love.

    http://www.rooshv.com/never-tell-a-girl-that-youve-been-in-love-before

    Although they give different advice, both Roissy and Roosh are playing the mysterious card. Conceal information to increase interest and legs being spread.

    [editor: phrasing matters. it’s better to say “we were in love” than it is to say “i was in love with her”. a small, but important, detail.]

    Like


  69. Sorry, Tim, didn’t mean to leave the upper betas out! Especially if chopped liver is like pate..very yummy indeed.

    Though I just had a look back through the posts and you said ‘since I really was engaged/no intention to marry/did it to make her happy’…
    Hmm.. that’s not very upper beta?? 😉

    So afraid at least in my case, I’ll still take the 42 year old out of a long marriage. Besides I like kids so a proven good dad (if indeed that is the case) is better than an unknown quantity.

    But I’m over 30, so despite my good genes (I’m a quarter southern italian and grew up in upper middle class english circles hence the slight sensitivity on the ‘white’ race) in terms of ageing,
    I’m over the hill in terms of this blog anyway so you wouldn’t be interested in me 🙂

    Like


  70. “We were in love.” – implies you a man worth falling in love for. Social proof.

    “I loved a girl.” – implies she dumped your desperate beta chump ass because you were needy.

    Like


  71. i doubt at 60 i’m going to be pulling 20 year olds effortlessly, but you never know. nonetheless, i will always shoot for women at least ten to fifteen years younger than myself. i believe most men who stay in shape and have a decent understanding of how to seduce women can pull off such a pussy plan.

    Cosign fully. Your perspective of what’s attractive changes as you age. At 21-23 I “despaired” of soon being too old for teen girls. Today at near-forty I view 16 year olds as nice to look — in the most abstract sense of appreciation of form — as they may as well be alien life forms. A hot 27yo, on the other hand, could drive me berserk with her sexuality.

    A sixty year old guy I recently talked with tells me that an in-shape woman of 36-45 is where it’s at for him. Makes sense to me.

    Like


  72. @Doug 1

    “However younger men are even more likely to get divorced. I.e. when a 23yo girl marries a 10 year older guy she’s less likely to get divorced than if married to one her own age.”

    I’d like to see the stats on that one. You may be right, but I’d guess that two 33 yos are less likely to divorce than a 23 yo women and a 33 yo man. After a 2-3 yr age difference between the couple, the divorce rate tends to go up as the age difference does–at least according to the stats I’ve seen.

    Like


  73. Kate,

    “I’ll take a 42 year old natural alpha who was married once from age 25-40 with a couple of kids over a 35 year old player who hasn’t had a relationship over 6 months any day…(and in likelihood was some sort of harem thing). There’s a difference between having options and feeling the need to shag every option going..;-)”

    Certainly. However, 35 year old men are not as attractive to me as men about 10 years older than that. Also, players aren’t really that hard to spot, imo. They are plagued with perpetual impatience and a lack of any sort of investment — it doesn’t long at all for these to surface.

    [editor: you sound like a decent woman, kate, but i would still impose the three date rule on you.]

    Like


  74. I meant to address the above comment to Lily, and not myself.

    Like


  75. @ Kate

    “Hmmm. I think “baggage” if a man’s been divorced and has children–he will always be attached to their mother somehow.”

    Agreed. When I was younger, I’d have never looked twice at someone else’s babydaddy. Too much drama. I do think though that women with less self-esteem or more
    desperation would though.

    OTOH, now that I’m much older, it would be hard to find a man without kids. I have kids myself. And, at this stage of the game, never having been married is a bigger red flag than being divorced. I would look very carefully at the marriage and the relationship the man has with his kids and his ex. A good relationship with the kids despite the divorce says good things about the guy, as does remaining civil with the ex if possible.

    “But, if he was once engaged, it does show an interest in commitment without all the mess and drama of a divorce. ”

    Yep, but I’d want to know why the engagement broke up.

    @Pol

    See above. Kate is not as much of an outlier as you think.

    Like


  76. @ Lily

    “And is there not the risk that he’d think you’d spent years saturday nights in bars and riding a cock carousel instead of being with one person and watching come dine with me?”

    In terms of the way men respond to me, I would say that being a good man’s wife is a major pre-qualifier. If my husband died tomorrow, there would be a number of widowed and divorced guys of my acquaintance interested in me, precisely because I’ve been a good wife and mom in a highly visible way in my community. Of course the caveat is that these are family men and not PUAs.

    Like


  77. @Kate
    We’re in agreement (I think).

    Like


  78. @ Pol Mordreth

    [email protected]: Your attitude is on the rarer side. I spent some time as a single dad with full custody.

    You’re having full custody says to most women that you are the responsible party and that something is wrong with your ex. As a mom, a non-custodial mom is a huge red flag in most circumstances.

    Like


  79. Though I just had a look back through the posts and you said ‘since I really was engaged/no intention to marry/did it to make her happy’…
    Hmm.. that’s not very upper beta?? 😉

    You’re right, Lily. It’s lower beta, indeed. I can see how a woman who would need to pre-select on that.

    I’m over the hill in terms of this blog anyway so you wouldn’t be interested in me 🙂

    Not true. There’s another side of the story women never hear. If a couple are truly in love, sex in the thirties is still fantasmagorical!!! (the jury is still out on 40’s, though)

    Plus you got the Italian thing going for you. Just googled a picture of Sophia Loren. I think she was the most ravishing beauty of all time.

    Like


  80. editor: phrasing matters. it’s better to say “we were in love” than it is to say “i was in love with her”. a small, but important, detail.

    Yep yep. very important detail. Women love to hear words like:

    Us
    We
    Together
    Sharing
    Caring

    Sprinkle these words into the conversation with your woman; show how much you lurve her.

    Like


  81. Women love to hear words like:

    Funny ehough, you reminded me of my slightly drunk convreasation with a buddy durig my mid 20s, whom I told that these are the five words that hit womens’ pleasure centers:

    Special; Forever; (shit, this was almost 15 years ago; can’t remember the other three)

    Like


  82. “[editor: you sound like a decent woman, kate, but i would still impose the three date rule on you.]”

    I’m certain you would. That’s why you’d quickly move on to some other woman of interest. But the 3 dates would probably be interesting, so all is not lost.

    J,

    “I would look very carefully at the marriage and the relationship the man has with his kids and his ex. A good relationship with the kids despite the divorce says good things about the guy, as does remaining civil with the ex if possible.”

    This is such a good point. The kids of the serial marrier I mentioned before rarely, if ever, have contact with him — very strained relationship. And the women he keeps meeting and marrying all buy into the story that’s it’s all the other wives before and his children’s fault that they don’t want to be around him. Things like this make women look stupid and desperate.

    “Yep, but I’d want to know why the engagement broke up.”

    Understandable. The only thing is, there are some things about the past I really don’t want to know — like the details and such. And I wouldn’t want to pry too much into a potentially painful experience. I would probably just observe, like you said above, quite a bit how he treats all the different people in his life, and continue to quietly and closely observe his behavior as I spent time with him before I committed to anything.

    Lily,

    I think so. Just say no to players. 🙂

    Like


  83. In Hong Kong culture a local guy who was never married and is pushing 40 or more and never maried is considered a loser.
    Asia is a patriarchal culture, relative to the USA. Once China drinks from the feminist sewer ‘rogue’ (unmarried) males will become commonplace.

    BTW, Polanski is Free! Nancy Grace (aka Lady MacBeth) has a stroke. Film at 11.

    Like


  84. Guys have you seen this? Casillas (Spain’s GK) sheds a tear during the interview after Spain’s victory. The reporter is his girlfriend. He then kisses her. This is an alpha moment imo. Watch the video and you’ll see why.

    Like


  85. on July 12, 2010 at 8:30 pm namae nanka

    “Untrue. We all know that women initiate most divorces. We also tend to assume that married women who divorce men tend to be older. If an older woman leaves you, knowing that she’s risking not being able to find a better mate with her lowered market value, then we younger women with options sure as hell don’t want you!”

    “We younger women”? INTJ women lower your glasses.

    “Divorced women = was probably committed and devoted for x number of years to her husband, thus makes a good partner.”

    And how large this x is?

    “Like lovelysexybeauty said, if she’s never been married/in a serious relationship, people are just going to assume she has tons of flings.”

    Or depending on the x she is waiting for Mr. Right, which you are probably doing too.

    “It doesn’t matter why the woman divorces him. Assuming that marriage is ideal for women (provided for, protection, stability, commitment), if a woman leaves all this and takes a hit to her market value by becoming a single mom, then he probably really sucks and is likely a flaming beta.”

    Not if she has got the laws to make him pay for her. How the hell does a married woman have more market value?

    And the beta in a marriage with his wife isn’t gonna be automatically beta for other women too. That’s a fallacy of assumption that the man was beta from the start. If he were so, why the hell would have the woman, when she was younger and hotter and had more value, married him in the first place?

    I would argue that the little bit of misogyny he gains from the experience makes him even more alpha than before, if he tries to get back in the game.

    “Women want men who are currently taken. Not taken a long time ago, used up, and then thrown away. That’s just gross.”

    Eww!!

    Like


  86. on July 12, 2010 at 9:03 pm Sir_Chancealot

    Roissy, any ideas on how to use becoming a widower at a young age to your advantage?

    [editor: first, my condolences. ok, let’s get down to it.

    you won’t want to just come right out and announce that to a woman you are picking up. it’s too heavy for most women to absorb without weirding them out, even if they are sympathetic and they like you. keep that emotional cluster bomb in storage for later use.

    if she asks in a general way about your previous love life, i’d brush it off at first. “ah, ups and downs. i was married once. good times and some very tough times.” and leave it at that until the next deep rapport session. when on a later date she asks about what she will assume is your ex-wife, that’s when you reveal the tragedy. avoid any maudlin histrionics. be matter of fact. make sure to peer pensively into the distance off to her right, sigh a bit, then return and stare into her eyes as she digests the news. she will, naturally, say stuff like “oh my god, i’m so sorry! it must be so tough for you.” don’t take that as bait to force a deeper rapport; you’ll run a danger of getting shunted into the poor bereaved friend zone. just reply “thanks. you seem like you have a good heart. though she’ll always be a part of me, she wouldn’t have wanted me to be alone forever either.”

    then run the cube on her.]

    Like


  87. Nestorius-

    “…well then come to Beirut and try it.”

    –sure thing. I would love to visit Beirut!

    Roissy-

    “….but for whatever reason i wind up attracting more of the younger girls.”

    –believe it or not, the young lads like me too, they are who approach me the most. I wish they would stop, I’m never quite sure how to handle it. It is a rare find to have a guy younger than me tread water with the sophistication I’m accustomed to and I hate to wear the pants, it’s just weird.

    also…

    “…but if you are an older man (above 30 let’s say) then it might seem strange to a woman you are dating to tell her you were never in love before.]”

    –so very true. Not only am I not threatened by old flames, I get turned on by the fact that a guy may have loved before. It reads as experienced, which in turn reads as sexy. General rule? Say you’ve never been in love to the younger girls since they most likely have never been in love and say that you have loved and done a long term for the 27 plus girls. No successful long terms in a guy’s past equals out to damaged goods in my book.

    Heart, brain, brawn…the one, two, three punch of male masculinity.

    Like


  88. Seed-

    Fantastic video!

    Like


  89. on July 12, 2010 at 9:40 pm The Alchemist

    Was just thinking about the video of the footballer kissing his gf interviewer. Her body language, after the kiss, seems to indicate that she was not happy about it. She turns her head away and down from him ending the kiss prematurely and kinda swats his hand away from her. These are not the actions of somebody who’s thrilled with what’s happening.
    Him getting all weepy before lunging in for an awkward kiss, probably didn’t help him either.

    Verdict = beta, very beta

    In a week, after the party dies down, she’ll be ankles up for the alpha program director at the tv station she works for… if she’s not already

    Like


  90. @ The Alchemist

    He just became WORLD CHAMPION! That’s a massive DHV. Please note the translation :

    Sara:Well,how everything started,and look where we are now

    Iker: What do you want me to say?

    Sara: Just tell me how you’re feeling

    Iker:I’m happy,really happy, at this moment I feel great. I think we deserve this,we have deserved it since the beggining,and I really have to thank all that people that have always been supportive.My parents,my brother…(stops talking)

    Sara: It’s ok, we can talk about the game if you prefer

    Iker: And my friends.

    Iker: And you. (kiss) . Now I’m leaving.

    He doesn’t care. He said whatever he wanted to say, did whatever he wanted to do, messed with her on the job and made every pussy in Spain drip.

    Like


  91. on July 12, 2010 at 10:08 pm The Alchemist

    Seed of course world cup is DHV! I was joking about him getting weepy – it’s totally justified under the circumstances. But, i’m not kidding that the girl looks put off by what he did. She definitely pulls away from him and her expression is that of somebody who’s not crazy about what just happened. My guess is that she was more concerned about appearing professional in front of the cameras than about giving in to the emotion of the moment. So, in that context, i think its pretty obvious that her career interests (however much they pale in comparison to his achievments) are at the forefront of her mind…not his moment.

    Like


  92. The higher the risk, the bigger the reward. She now has this memory imprinted in her mind.

    And let’s set things straight : “Madre mio” is the her last line…you can guess what that means.

    It’s equal to an orgasm.

    Like


  93. The Alchemist–

    Maybe it’s due to her being on the job.

    Like


  94. on July 12, 2010 at 10:31 pm The Alchemist

    Yeah, no kidding Ankourage, that’s my entire point. The guy just won the freaking world cup, put your career ambitions on hold for a second and give the guy a proper kiss – he deserves it!

    Like


  95. @ The Alchemist

    The guy just won the World Cup and he plays for the biggest team in Spain. He’s basically Michael Phelps and Derek Jeter combined right now.

    I don’t speak Spanish, but my guess is that she was embarrassed by the kiss because it made her look unprofessional. All I can pick out from her reaction is “Bueno.” Anyone translate the rest?

    Like


  96. Tim

    Yep yep. very important detail. Women love to hear words like:

    Us
    We
    Together
    Sharing
    Caring

    Sprinkle these words into the conversation with your woman; show how much you lurve her.</blockquote?

    I used to share that same general attitude. Yes, romance is a fertilizer for the bloom of love. But you've got to decide if you are gardening crocus flowers, or working on a 4 season installation. If you care about how the bare branches frame the sky, about having a bonzai framed with against large boulders, and seasonal shows of color, then you have to be spare with the notion of "us".

    Don't over water. Keep a portion of the garden arid.

    Like


  97. Tim

    Yep yep. very important detail. Women love to hear words like:

    Us
    We
    Together
    Sharing
    Caring

    Sprinkle these words into the conversation with your woman; show how much you lurve her.

    I used to share that same general attitude. Yes, romance is a fertilizer for the bloom of love. But you’ve got to decide if you are gardening crocus flowers, or working on a 4 season installation. If you care about how the bare branches frame the sky, about having a bonzai framed with against large boulders, and seasonal shows of color, then you have to be spare with the notion of “us”.

    Don’t over water. Keep a portion of the garden arid.

    ———-
    For instance. I don’t let my girlfriend touch my cell phone. That’s MY property, MY space. When it comes to my phone, there is no WE.

    Now I know the very idea of individuality seems shockingly unromantic to a lot of guys.

    Those guys will learn.

    Like


  98. on July 12, 2010 at 10:51 pm Aspiring2bAlpha

    A variation on this may be useful for people who aren’t very good at lying. Talk about an *actual* girlfriend you had, or have, who was (is) high quality, in (distant) past tense but sprinkle in the fiancee detail for some spice. I used this recently when one asked me about a completely insignificant ring I was wearing (thanks, Roissy, for the fashion post). Off-the-cuff drunkenness worked in my favor. (note: I added that she was French… maybe a key detail). Looking back, and after reading here, that had to have been the deal closer.

    The only challenge here, as stated for the original line, is keeping the ambiguity up (ie her hampster) and too much detail down.

    Like


  99. The Alchemist–

    I agree with you but some women are incredibly uptight or uncomfortable with public displays of affection. She’s gorgeous so maybe he’ll forgive her.

    Like


  100. Also, emphasizing the WE tends to put the man at the disadvantage. He’ll find himself more open to manipulation by the girls emotionally stated needs. To keep WE happy.

    Whereas if you emphasize your personal autonomy, you’ll find a counter intuitive paradoxical result. She’ll start to come after you.

    Like


  101. @ Kate

    “I would probably just observe, like you said above, quite a bit how he treats all the different people in his life, and continue to quietly and closely observe his behavior as I spent time with him before I committed to anything. ”

    Yep, especially observe behavior around service people, kids and old ladies. It’s always very telling.

    Like


  102. @Seed

    “He doesn’t care. He said whatever he wanted to say, did whatever he wanted to do, messed with her on the job and made every pussy in Spain drip.”

    And in the process, upped her status as half of a golden couple.

    Like


  103. Sniper – I just saw your pic. You’re young. In a few years, you’ll see a divorced man with kid(s) as pre-selected, responsible & not afraid of commitment, expecially if he has custody. Just like Lily..

    Sniper – According to studies I’ve read, women are not afraid of filing for divorce. Typically, they get custody (often full-time), alimony, child support. (usually far more money than required to support a child – Doug1 calls this stealth alimony.) The typical divorce allows women to gain power over her ex-husbands.
    Studies show when laws do not automatically grant child custody to women, they file for divorce in far lower numbers.

    Sniper – Do you have a sister named Cassie?

    Like


  104. PA

    Funny ehough, you reminded me of my slightly drunk convreasation with a buddy durig my mid 20s, whom I told that these are the five words that hit womens’ pleasure centers:

    Special; Forever; (shit, this was almost 15 years ago; can’t remember the other three)

    Oh my god, I would NEVER use a word like FOREVER.

    Security sucks all the passion out of a relationship.

    Avoid security.

    You may as well start taking crack cocaine. Sure, you’ll get an immediate rush, but you are setting yourself up for a lowering of life quality.

    Keep her on edge. Hopeful for security, but never sated with it.

    As soon as security starts to creep in, do role play to have playful pretend insecurity. Pretend you are picking her up for the first time. Or talk about or role play threesomes during sex.

    My last close lover used to mention that it would sicken her if I called her “dear”, or “sweetheart”. She liked it when I called her my bitch. The edge to it made it more real. Something true bonds can be built on – a real foundation, because we don’t deny all the messy, passionate, barely controllable urges of our chemistry and the sexual nature of the power imbalance. And it even hints at at an understanding of her barely controllable drive to fuck other guys, and my open drive to keep her from doing that. Something we can trust, because it’s not built on fairy tales of romantic union. Sweetheart. Dear. Ugggh, indeed.

    When your woman is your bitch, then you’ve got a foundation to work with. When she is your sweetheart, you setting yourself up to be the bottom bitch.

    Like


  105. @Tim

    “There’s another side of the story women never hear. If a couple are truly in love, sex in the thirties is still fantasmagorical!!! (the jury is still out on 40′s, though)

    Let me assure you–older than that.

    Like


  106. Oh my god, I would NEVER use a word like FOREVER.

    I mean this in a different context than what you’re describing. Think of how many love songs or trailers for epic romance movies have words like “forever” in them.

    Like


  107. Security is like money. If you have an understanding that there is always security, that you provide a permanent state of welfare, then you reduce the incentive for the girl to work towards pleasing you.

    Don’t be welfare. Don’t give welfare. Every day, what did she do you for you?

    That attitude is fundamentally more secure than notions of lurve and forever.

    You give security as incentive and reward. Not just because that’s what the two of you have chosen to do.

    Like


  108. An unmarried woman at 41 is seen as a “winner” in that such a woman often is educated and dedicated to her career.
    She is single by choice.

    By contrast, an unmarried man at 41 is seen as single because no woman will marry him. He is a “loser”.

    The above applies to marriage 1.0 only. Things have changed. The above attitude will change also.

    For a man in today’s society, getting married is like playing Russian roulette with his future.
    If you do not understand this, Google “marriage 2.0” & read the first several search returns.

    Like


  109. Yes, PA, women love it.

    No, PA, never give women what they want.

    Give them a taste. Giving devotion is giving up your power, which is what the woman wants.

    That’s relationship crack, and leads nowhere good.

    Like


  110. Women love diamond rings, too, PA.

    DON’T GO THERE!

    Like


  111. Rather than emphasize security directly, much better to emphasize your bonds as if you just met. Don’t emphasize the forever – emphasize the sexual tension.

    For instance, as your woman walks out the door, you could say “Don’t fuck anybody”.

    You are telling her that you own her. Good job. You are telling her that you find her sexually attractive, that she is a sexual machine, and that all men want her. Great. She’ll tingle all day.

    What would happen if as she walks out the door you say “Love you sweetheart!”

    Security is the wrong attitude. Cultivate insecurity.

    Like


  112. @ J : Yes he did. But she acted bitchy and so lost the sympathy of male viewers. A passionate kiss was the answer here, in her case. Imagine her kissing Iker afterwards , with puppy eyes while trembling , saying “I love you”.

    That would have made her a sweetheart, which is the best word you want to be called as a woman (nobody hates sweethearts).

    Like


  113. “HER: Really!

    THE DEVIL WHO REMAKES U IN HIS IMAGE: Yes. [Turn away, look pensively at the horizon] She was a French girl. We were in love.”

    There is something so cute about this!

    Like


  114. I can’t believe I’m translating between food languages. From the video:

    Female food: … princes are going, but Iker stays. Well, look at how it all started, and look at it now.

    Male food: What do you want me to tell you?

    FF: Tell me how you’re doing, how you feel.

    MF: Well, I’m very happy now, quite content. Really, just happy, I think we deserved this, from beginning to end, and I have to tank all the people who always supported me, my parents, my brother…

    FF: That’s all right, let’s talk a bit about the match.

    *Male food says no with his hand*

    *Female food asks “no?” and is interrupted by a kiss*

    MF: I’m off!

    *Clapping sound (or audible gina tingles, I cannot be sure) from the background*

    FF: Madre mia (literally “Mother of mine”, non-literally something akin to “holy crap”). Well… So, let’s continue later, okay J?

    Like


  115. Question: when do you bring this up? In some cases, I get asked questions like “How do you know how to speak Japanese, and Japanese slang?”

    I just kind of smile. But maybe I can use my past marriage to better advantage in game.

    How do I bring this up?

    Often the questions would come up…”Why aren’t you married?”

    I usually use the Mystery: “I’m picky, there’s a test…”

    Though I do say: “Once is enough…”

    That gets a laugh and usually more questions which I deflect.

    Any experiences?

    Like


  116. @Seed

    “But she acted bitchy and so lost the sympathy of male viewers. ”

    So no guys out there can understand that she might have been embarrassed by a PDA or afraid of looking unprofessional on her job? My husband backs away from kisses if I pick him up at work for just those reasons.

    “Imagine her kissing Iker afterwards , with puppy eyes while trembling , saying “I love you”. ”

    That would indeed have made everyone, male or female, go, “Awwww.”

    She probably should have done it, but I read her not doing it as insecure rather than bitchy. She had a moment where the world would have cut her a lot of slack even if she jumped up and down and shouted like Tom Cruise on Oprah’s couch. She just didn’t see it.

    Like


  117. ”Why aren’t you married?”

    “Ya, I’m not sure about marriage.”

    Why not?! Don’t you want a wife

    “Oh sure, a mate is great. But marriage just ruins the passion. I mean, that’s what I always see. Who knows, maybe one day…” Pause. .

    But don’t you want someone to take care of you when you’re old?

    “Why would I worry about that? I’m so loveable!”

    Girl gets exasperated, and pulls out her last commit to me forever or I won’t fuck you card “ But you have to be married before having sex. Otherwise God will punish you.

    ” I don’t believe in God. Why are you nagging me?”

    Ok, ok. Sorry to disturb you.

    Problem solved. Move on to the next girl who is not such a marriage whore.

    But usually the girl won’t push it that far, and will cling to hopes that she’ll be able to change your mind. And will put out in hopes of discovering or making a family man out of you. It’s not your job to pretend to be her Prince Charming. It’s your job to make her want you.

    Like


  118. Who knows, maybe one day…” Pause. . — shrug shoulders with an exaggerated spasmodic shudder —

    Like


  119. HER: Were you always single?

    THE DEVIL WHO REMAKES U IN HIS IMAGE: No, I was once engaged.

    HER: Really!

    THE DEVIL WHO REMAKES U IN HIS IMAGE: Yes. [Turn away, look pensively at the horizon] She was a French girl. We were in love.

    HER: What happened?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1293165/Nanny-30-died-sexual-arousal-watching-pornography.html

    Like


  120. Can I say I’m gay to them?

    Like


  121. Conversely, don’t tell a young woman in feminist-occupied territory the truth about what happened when you were really engaged…that you opted out because the other woman was your age and you realized that you could just as easily get someone a generation younger.

    In the former Warsaw Pact or Asia a man can explain this to any beautiful and intelligent 21 year old and she will see this as a reasonable explanation and even romantic because it says that she is qualified over the older women the man once knew.

    But in the USA or England?!! This would be the worst thing to say to any woman anywhere. I actually made this exact mistake when I was asked why I wasn’t married by a 21 year old who had been completely into me for 1.5 hours at an upscale black and white ball.

    When I made the answer that I broke an engagement because the other woman had been my own age and it was more prudent to marry someone a lot younger…the young woman turned to stone and slowly started to squirm with rage.

    I had already email closed (back then I didn’t insist on number closing) but she never answered an email. For about a year or two I would write now and then that what I had said should not have had any effect on her attitude toward me because I had only repeated simple evolutionary biology. I explained that, in Russia, a woman like her would not “hate” for it.

    But feminist-trained women will let their blood run cold as ice if you discuss evolutionary biology.

    If cornered on why I am not yet married, I would now stick with another truth which is less relevant than evolutionary biology or the ridiculous legal climate for marriage: that the woman of my longest LTR has died of cancer.

    This produces massive sympathy. I am often disgusted at how some women want to use my tragedy to fulfill a tragic-romance fantasy. But its only human.

    But, even then, one feminist-trained woman winced when I said this because she was “too smart” and thought I was making the story about the former gf dying as a part of “game”. She thought I wanted to enduce sympathy sex.

    You can’t win with feminists. They are looking for reasons to hate.

    Still…don’t make up a dead former fiance if it isn’t remotely true. The last thing PUAs with real dead fiances need is for a meme to go around among American women saying “Watch out for guys who say their ex-fiance died of cancer. They are just trying to enduce sympathy as part of game.”

    Another blog is talking about the “Social Catch 22 in America”:

    http://happierabroad.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8109

    One man writes that, if a man is good at socializing he should move to a foreign country where this ability will actually optimize his happiness and not be wasted on bitches.

    He writes “Why go to the desert if you are good at swimming”.

    Like


  122. Completely different subject.

    I was online gaming girl who asked me my age.

    From my photo, she said I look young. I do, but I’m 45.

    I said: “I”m 72, well preserved.”

    Her: “It’s a simple question”

    Me: And I gave you a simple answer.

    Her: Ok, how young are you

    Me: Ok, I’m actually 68.

    She wouldn’t give me her number and said “I’ll see” when I suggested “let’s meet xxx for drinks.”

    Like


  123. Conversely, don’t tell young women in feminist-occupied territory the truth that you ended a previous engagement because the other woman was your own age and you felt it was a lot wiser in the long run to date and marry someone from the newer generation.

    In the former Warsaw Pact, this would be a reasonable thing to say to a 21 year old about why you didn’t marry a fellow 40 year old.

    But Women’ Studies courses in the USA have immunized young women to turn cold and hate any man who says the truth like that.

    Like


  124. Just got an email from a forum that discusses a Social Catch 22 in the USA. The guys on this forum don’t believe in game (preferring to just bash US culture all the time), but much of what they write is still relevant:

    http://happierabroad.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8109

    Here is a video about French feminists not hating men as much as US and Brit feminists:

    I don’t believe it because the worst feminist I ever dated was French.

    Like


  125. on July 13, 2010 at 3:56 am College Grad

    Roissy,

    I was in a very serious (nearly 4 year) relationship that began in high school and ended late college. Although I ended it, she became engaged to another man less than one year later. Since I am young, 22, what details about my past, if any, should I mention??

    Like


  126. on July 13, 2010 at 4:01 am anonayodsfuj

    Here is the latest Doug Stanhope release. Draw Game parallels at your own risk:

    “It is very easy for a comic – or anyone I guess – to get bogged down in hate and cynicism.

    I am guilty of that most hours of the day. It has nothing to do with money or career or all the other trivia. While some of my bitterness could be attributed to excessive drink, it is mostly rooted in the idiocy that surrounds me and the shit people will accept as good or correct or real, etc, without any question whatsoever.

    Regardless, it is still hate and whatever angst I can’t immediately turn into comedy proceeds to ruin my daily life. So I try to limit my exposure to it, recognize it for what it is and move on.

    Try something new. Travel someplace I’ve never been. Try food I’ve never tasted. Listen to music I’ve never heard. And hate all of it.

    It’s important – especially in my business – to have a very deep well of hatred.

    One thing though that I’ve hated since even my youngest,hope-filled days as a comic – worse than bad comedy, hack comedy or even joke thieves – are people who teach stand-up comedy classes.

    Keep in mind that before I started comedy, most of my young adult life was spent working in low-level fraud – from toner scams and ad-specs to inventor/patent hoaxes. But comedy classes fall into that gray area of deceit – like Jesus or psychics or chakra healing – where you can’t prove that it’s a con.

    Say what you will about any Carlos Mencia, Dane Cook or Jeff Dunham but I would lay Rubenesque on my side, chin cupped in my limp hand blowing the lot of them before I would say one positive thing about anyone who steals money by teaching a comedy class.

    They are all 100 percent bullshit. It wouldn’t matter if it were Pryor, Carlin and Mark Twain at the podium at the Holiday Inn banquet room, it would be them ripping you off.

    Usually it works out that the folk who teach this shit never did any comedy on any actual paid level and act like fly strips for those whose dreams outweigh any innate skepticism. Maybe the person bullshits a community college into letting them conduct a course or puts an ad in the weekly to siphon a few suckers out of the woodwork.

    These people are loathsome enough but don’t create much damage.

    Then there are people equally as worthless but with better “marketing” skills that can make a career out of it.

    See Judy Carter.

    She’s been grifting would-be comics since before I learned how to do stand-up myself (the only possible way to learn comedy.) J.C. had the audacity to write a book called the Comedy Bible with no more qualifications as the guy at the VFW hall who re-words old Polish jokes into Iraqi jokes or whatever the unpopular country of the day may be.

    Somehow she made a living out of it as opposed to settling for the beer money that others are content with but her success makes her no more legitimate than a snake-oil salesman’s success makes his tincture actually cure whooping cough.

    Then you have the worst breed yet – the industry guy who has NEVER done comedy teaching you from an “Insider’s Perspective.” This is someone who used to be an agent or casting director or some other “behind the scenes” guy claiming to have secret knowledge of what the big-wigs in television are looking for.

    I’ll tell you exactly what they are looking for – people who are getting the most attention from other industry. They wander like blind coyotes in packs and jump on whatever seems to be creating the most noise. They have no insight and scramble around whatever apple is the shiniest like cartoon drunks in a scrum around Mardi Gras titties.

    Somewhere around 1998 there was a comic named Michael “Chicken” Roof who played the Montreal Fest and – so far as I know was the last comic to get a big development deal there. I think he is the reason why Montreal is just a cheap knock-off of it’s former self.

    Chicken’s act made Dane Cook look like Lenny Bruce. Dane Cook has the courtesy of proposing a reason to gesticulate. Chicken had bits as simple as saying “Dont you hate dance clubs” before hitting some heavy dance music and dry-humping a guy in the front row.

    That’s the whole bit.

    Zero joke, zero punchline, crowd goes fucking fall-down bananas. Blind coyotes rear up from their mango-tinis and throw half-million dollar offers based on 6 minutes of this shit. Agent takes an offer, cancels the rest of Chicken’s show at the Fest lest they see through the veneer and second-guess it all.

    Chicken rides out on the shoulders of idiots, goes nowhere and eventually kills himself.

    Am I saying that Industry killed Chicken? No, I’m insinuating it. There’s a difference.

    And now Industry is teaching classes to “Step Up Your Stand Up.”

    See Jeff Singer.

    He is the newest and maybe the worst in that he has actual credits that sound very good unless you know what they entail – being a manager and a producer in Hollywood is something any used car salesman could do and just because you’ve produced comedy doesn’t mean you have skill to even critique it much less sell yourself as a coach.

    Jeff Singer is most shameful doing this because he is also the talent guy for the Montreal Comedy Festival, the iron pyrite gold ring for up-n-coming comics. Singer isn’t just dangling a carrot in front of you with his sham comedy workshop, he’s flopping it out of his pants and rubbing it on your lips while you cry on the couch.

    Industry people might have their names appear in the credit-scroll on a lot of shows but I guarantee you that 999 out of a 1000 times, if the show was funny it was because the talent fought hard enough to stop the Industry fuck from ruining it with his “insider knowledge.” You might as well get financial advice from the brick-layer who built the bank.

    But worse yet…

    …now there is a plague called Kyle Cease who has either bribed, bullshitted or butt-fucked his way into making Louie Anderson a de facto partner with him in the biggest Comedy Hucksterism that I have seen in 20 years called “Stand Up Boot Camp.”

    I really don’t like to say bad shit about other comedians. It sucks when people say bad shit about you – it does to me – and I wish I’d taken a higher road on a lot of occasions. So in defense of Kyle Cease, I will admit that I don’t know if he is purposely pick-pocketing the weak or if he is simply a person with delusions of mediocrity.

    Either way, Stand Up Boot Camp is without question a complete waste of time, money and probably more damaging to your chances of being a successful comedian than cutting out your own tongue. Unless it’s worth hundreds or thousands of dollars to have a guy you’ve never heard of introduce you to Louie Anderson and then blow toxic fumes up your ass for an afternoon.

    Comedy Defensive Driving will do you as much good but I wouldn’t tell you that a DUI will help you become a stand-up comic.

    I was once in my early years of comedy and semi-popular in the ranks of the open mics in Phoenix when a comic higher-up in the ranks – Joey Scazzola – caught me giving advice to a new guy.

    He said “Never give anyone advice because you’re only telling them how to be more like you.” Every time I’ve erred and given someone advice, I remembered that.

    If you want advice, you most likely just want someone to reassure you of what you already know. If they tell you otherwise, you’ll either discount it or you’ll take their advice and no longer be following the instincts that got you in this to begin with. So either way, you didn’t need the advice.

    But if you really want the advice anyway, you can get it very easily for free without going far out of your way. If there’s one thing that you never have to pay for, it’s some other jerk-offs opinion.

    You’ll get the same advice from the comic at the bar after a gig in your local comedy club or on any comedian’s forum or any stand-up comedian message board, etc etc. And it will be free and worth just as much.

    This is where Kyle Cease goes from confidence man to megalomaniac. He sells this shit no differently than religion – let’s say Scientology to give a more telling analogy. It’s simply about you BELIEVING in yourself in his eyes.

    Really? I could give you 1,000 examples of people who DON’T believe in themselves and are great because of it but I’ll stop at Dave Attell. I have never met anyone more down on themselves than Attell – hates himself every step of the way, second-guesses every joke, every set and goes home feeling like shit about his act every night.

    Oh, and he’s one of best comedians of our entire generation either in spite of it or more likely because of it.

    Where’s that in your class, Kyle Cease? Do you even consider shit like that, you fucking orphan-snatching Fagin?

    The simple math is that it is highly unlikely that you ever make a living at stand-up, no matter how rosy your outlook is or how much you believe in your inner-worth.

    That would be almost the same as me telling you that you can win at roulette if you just keep repeating “I think I can, I think I can, I know I can, I know I can…” and on n on.

    Only 3000 bucks, please.

    Fucking rotten, soul-plundering asshole.

    Even if he honestly thinks he’s doing a good thing because of the smiling faces of false hope that walk out of the Aw Shucks Comedy Mall into the early evening air, he won’t be around when all those dreams turn into shit and you are blaming everybody but him down the road.

    Let’s go over some of the garbage from his website regarding his Stand-up Mastery 5 day class, ignoring how much just the idea of him saying that you can master stand-up in 5 days makes me want to kill his innocent family in front of him on Day 2. Make that funny, you slice of shit cancer.

    Remember – this is 60 hours in 5 days – that means 12 hour days if you don’t wanna do the math like I didn’t.

    Day 1. He tells you that you’ll meet stars, headliners, agents and managers all at the “legendary” Comedy Store in LA.

    Um… you could do the same thing by paying the cover at the Comedy Store and hanging around all night. But if you take his class, they will all know you’re a complete chump who took a comedy class and you’d lose any credibility before you got past “Hello.”

    Day 2 he tells you that it’s time to work on marketing and your relationship with industry and bookers. That’s really how most comics get started. Work on marketing before you pay any attention to having an act. But again, this is the day I want to kill his family in front of him – and who wants to work on their act after that? Let’s stick with 12 hours about Facebook til the grieving wears off.

    Day 3 – if you made it this far without phoning an attorney, a consumer rights advocate from the local news and another guy to kill his extended family including any sperm he might have spilled while cashing your check – on this day you “work together and we all benefit!”

    Or as he explains, they “find all the people in the room who also book rooms, work regularly, tour, and can offer help.” Sounds like a day where he leaves the teaching to everyone else while he blows L Ron Hubbard’s mummified remains in the ladies toilet.

    Day 4 and 5 are evidently for the VIP and Executive members. I don’t know what that means but he evidently took the marketing class first as well. It tells you that headliners – which he rightfully doesn’t seem to classify himself as – will tag your jokes. That means when you do a joke about blowing L Ron Hubbard’s corpse in a ladies toilet, Ant will wake up and tell you to snap your fingers and say “you go, girl!” afterwards and you will now kill your own family rather than face the shame of wasting money on this.

    Here’s where it gets really ugly for the poor, poor bastards who don’t know any better…

    For the extra money of getting the VIP or Top Gun or Nigger Please package, they will tape you on the final night showcase and send it out to industry.

    Read this again… THEY WILL TAPE YOU AND SEND IT OUT TO EVERYBODY IN THE BUSINESS.

    If the all-caps didn’t clue you in – This is a Bad Thing. It’s the Worst Thing anybody could do to a new comic. It is the equivalent to spending five days telling a virgin how to fuck a girl, filming their first time and sending the tape to everybody in adult entertainment, explaining you it will help their fledgling porn career.

    Ask Kyle Cease or any working comedian to show you a tape of their first time – or first years of comedy and they’d recoil at the thought. Much less sending it out to agents and networks.

    It is abominable. It is shit-baggery at it’s worst. And they charge you money for it.

    You might- or must – ignore the fact that Kyle Cease is an inarguable nobody WITHIN comedy, much less outside of it. God knows why Louie Anderson attached his name to it but at the same time Louie Anderson wouldn’t have the most cursory idea in how to get started in stand-up today. He’d tell you to mail your VHS tape to Budd Friedman and hope for the best.

    Sure there are contemporary comedians that may sit in and give you advice for a minute. Why? Because it’s a gig and they are getting paid. For the same way they will do a show at your college or chime in on a VH1 list show, they will drive across town to tell a bunch of boneheads to “just keep writing and performing” or “find your own voice.”

    They’d tell you the same thing at a bar for nothing if you asked. It’s all bullshit and it’s all available for free.

    Should you take my advice? Fuck no. I would have told Dan Whitney to dump that silly “Larry the Cable Guy,” that he’d never make a dime with that goofiness. I would have told Daniel Tosh that his show would never work, that he was just interrupting good Youtube footage like a latter-day Bob Saget. I would have been wrong on many occasions.

    My best advice doesn’t even work for me. I thought going on stage on mushrooms for New years Eve would make for exceptional comic insight. I’ve convinced myself that 2900 dollars in the bank is “fuck-you” money. I was sure that making fun of a tragic burn victim in a room nearly empty would be hilarious – especially to the burn victim. Oops.

    You learn everything from experience. You could get a doctorate in listening to someone else’s road and not get shit from it.

    I’m grumpy and caustic and miserable all around and my advice isn’t worth a sack of rat-shit either. But I know a raging scam and dream-profiteering when I see it.

    All the Stand Up Boot Camp classes – whether it’s a two-day “immersive” or a 5 day “mastery” – say that seating is limited. It’s limited to how many of you retards will actually show up. So much so that they do actual live telemarketing.

    I think the part that really threw me over the edge is when was a comic in Denver – a working comic that came highly recommended to me by other comedians – told me that Kyle and Louie Anderson cold-called him on a conference call saying they’d heard he was a comedian and wanted to know if he wanted to take his comedy “to the next level.”

    Even knowing how much garbage this comedy class is, for a new comic that has to be a very intimidating moment. Fortunately, he didn’t fall for it. But who knows how many cold-calls they had to make to fill the limited seats. I’m surprised they didn’t offer him a clock radio or a waffle-maker if he’d just come and listen to a brief presentation.

    I don’t condemn someone for making a living. I’m not some Hicks-ian “You do a commercial, you’re off the artistic roll-call” purist. But I am whole-heartedly against people who prey off the innocent delusions of the incapable.

    “You sure could kick field goals in the NFL, Mr One-Legged Man! You just have to Believe! 3000 dollars, please.”

    You contemptible parasites. Fuck you.

    And for this whole night of hate and vodka and spell-check and Wikipedia, a world of desperate dreamers will still part with hard-earned money just to waste a day or a week of lies and sunshine amongst a veritable AA meeting of other suckers – all of whom were lucky enough to get a limited seat and all of whom are told they are good enough because Kyle “Who?” Cease said it was so.

    I’ll make you an offer.

    If you really want to give your money away for free advice that will probably do more harm than good, I’m going to teach a class.

    It’s called Doug Stanhope’s Comedy Death Camp.

    No, I’m not kidding.

    I’ll do it next year so you have time to save up your money – late spring or fall – somewhere out in the middle of the desert or maybe even at my house so you can run some errands between absorbing my genius.

    It will last 5 days but for anyone who has taken Kyle Cease’s class there will be an extra day to de-program you with wine and angry bees.

    You will perform every night for local “The Hills Have Eyes” tweakers or bikers or whoever we can con into watching you – a far harder task than getting students. You’ll get advice from everyone and most of it will conflict – just like real-world comedy.

    You’ll be filmed but not under the guise of helping, only to exploit your naivete -just the same as Kyle Cease does.

    Day One will be the same – meet stars and headliners and club owners and agents. They won’t give a fuck about you, they are just friends of ours there for a party. It’s like Montreal only more selective and without the pretense.

    On day one, we just get fucked up and hang out until you perform, then we get more fucked up while we give you the free advice that’s included in the enormous fee.

    Day two – everyone will be hungover and it’ll be hot as fuck. You won’t wanna get up but you’ll have to for radio. Sure, it’ll just be a podcast but it will last on the internet forever so you’d better put your “A” game on. Then you’ll receive unsolicited advice from all corners and enjoy an all-day yet intermittent symposium from me called “All Comedy Classes Are Bullshit Including This One.” This will probably start on day one and last sporadically throughout but technically it is scheduled for day two.

    I’ll try to invite my brother as he’s the only family I have left for you to kill and I want to play fair.

    Day 3 is “Work on Your Act day” where you are berated for not having been working on your act this whole time. You’ve only been doing comedy this long and you haven’t been working on it? Un-fucking-believable. Night 3 is Carlos Mencia night where you steal another classmates act and see if you can do better with it than that shit you wrote yourself. Club owners will be watching and don’t give a fuck who wrote it.

    Day 4 is where all of our serotonin levels have plummeted and we feel really bad about the shit we’ve been giving you and actually try to help. Of course, we won’t be of much help but we’ll be honest about it. By now you will have some beefs with the other members of the class because some will be better than you or have gained favor with us for reasons other than comedy merit such as drugs or hot-chickness or maybe they have a connection and can get us free Bose headphones. That’s the reality of the business. Tonight you’ll try to find a way to one-up or sabotage them.

    Day 5 will probably be an Ambien blackout for me so just make some shit up.

    Day 6 we’ll all go to Vegas and the pick of the litter will open for me. Based on some loosely judged contest we will pick a Grand National Tomorrow’s Next Huge Comedy Star or otherwise amplified title and on

    Day 7 I will fly with you to Reno and bring you to the Bunny Ranch to fuck a whore on the house.

    You’ll be left to find your own way back, go home and tell all of your friends the stories and then you’ll be back to where you’d be after Kyle cease’s stupid fucking rip-off class – trying to do stand-up comedy after a week’s worth of effort.

    My class will cost one more dollar than Kyle’s- never price yourself lower than someone less known and remarkably unmemorable. Space will be limited to how much money my bank holds and the accommodations will make your first comedy condo on the road seem like Valhalla.

    But the drinks will be on me, ladies and gentlemen. The advice will probably be of no effect, the stage time will be nothing but adrenaline and fear, the party will be unforgettable until you blackout and we put it on the internet and none of it matters because we all die at the end.

    Stay tuned for details on how to sign up at http://www.comedydeathcamp.com.

    In the meantime, I might take a refresher at Kyle and Louie’s class. Get my wig and my fake moustache.

    ******************************

    I’ve noticed other comedy classes have a “win free passes” or “get 50 dollars off” propositions so in keeping with the theme…

    Find 5 places that I’m a hypocrite in the update above and we won’t pee on you while you sleep at Comedy Death Camp.

    Act now! (PUNCHLINE CAN BE RE-WRITTEN BUT I LIKE THE ADD-ON)

    Like


  127. Conversely, don’t tell a young woman in feminist occupied territory the real reason why you broke an engagement: that the other woman had been your own age and you decided it would be foolish not to marry someone from a younger generation.

    A young woman in Russia or Poland would see this as a great explanation and be honored at the idea of being that “more appropriate” younger wife.

    But a young American or British woman would have been trained to hate you with a white hot rage for saying the truth like that.

    I actually said the above at a Manhattan cocktail party where a 21 year old had been seriously into me for 1.5 hours. She turned as cold as ice after I said it, however. Never could get her to be friendly again and see the world reasonably.

    Like


  128. on July 13, 2010 at 8:29 am namae nanka

    Lily

    “She’s young, give her some leeway. That’s what you have to do when you play with the younger.”

    She’s my age. She looks quite young though, her face looks a lot like my little cousin who pouts the same way.

    Like


  129. on July 13, 2010 at 8:57 am Badger Nation

    No matter how women choose to see divorced/dis-engaged men, it’s clear even from comments on this thread that women do a ridiculous amount of assuming, presuming and filling in the gaps in the story to fit whatever fantasy they want running through their head. If they want to think he’s a cad, they’ll fill that in…if they want to think he was a loving committed provider booted out the door by his bitchy ex wife, they’ll fill that in. It’s like a Mad Lib.

    Confirmation bias it’s called. Ditto for chicks who say “I didn’t know my boyfriend was spoken for!” You just didn’t want to know, sweetie.

    Like


  130. on July 13, 2010 at 9:03 am Badger Nation

    “Untrue. We all know that women initiate most divorces. We also tend to assume that married women who divorce men tend to be older. If an older woman leaves you, knowing that she’s risking not being able to find a better mate with her lowered market value, then we younger women with options sure as hell don’t want you!

    It doesn’t matter why the woman divorces him. Assuming that marriage is ideal for women (provided for, protection, stability, commitment), if a woman leaves all this and takes a hit to her market value by becoming a single mom, then he probably really sucks and is likely a flaming beta.”

    I don’t know if sniper is a man or a woman but s/he is free-hamsterwheeling all over the place.

    Because women tend to marry up, the material benefits of divorce are slanted in the woman’s favor (besides vaginamony, she stands to gain in the “equitable division” of assets the man did more to earn). For rational females, divorce in a suitably misandrist district is a material boon, allowing her to go find her carousel horse*.

    But you know a lot of women also pull irrational relationship moves. They don’t understand the value hit they will take, or they don’t have kids so it’s not an issue. You don’t have to do a graduate thesis worth of research on the Internet to find crops of women who divorced for the hell of it – got clucked into it by the sisterhood or their own hamsters, they thought life would be better with the man out of the picture and they are shocked to find out it’s not.

    I’ve also known a lot of women who want the man to be preselected – by a shitty bitch. They love to be able to say “he’s taken, so that’s hot, but I’m WAY better than the girl he’s with, I’ll be able to steal him away from that awful wench!”

    “Divorced women = was probably committed and devoted for x number of years to her husband, thus makes a good partner.”

    Riiiiight. Most of what I hear from married associates and read about American marriage is about thankless, capricious wives. The idea of a wife’s “devotion” went out the window with 70’s feminism. There’s still some of it, but it’s by no means the rule.

    The idea that divorce is an institution strictly caused by philandering or inattentive husbands is way past its shelf life. People just don’t want to accept that a lot of divorces occur when the man did nothing wrong.

    *Ahhhh you see what I did there mixing the cock carousel with the white horse/knight meme?

    Like


  131. on July 13, 2010 at 9:07 am Badger Nation

    “if a woman leaves all this and takes a hit to her market value by becoming a single mom, then he probably really sucks and is likely a flaming beta.”

    Gotta amend once more…you’ve got it totally backwards. Today’s American woman has higher demands for a husband than ever. That means that, rather than being hopeless betas, they are probably regular dudes or even quality men caught on the wrong side of a woman who feels she “deserves better.”

    Face it, in the case of a divorce you know nothing about, the likelihood that the woman is an entitled princess who wanted to “find herself” is higher than the likelihood the man is so beta she can’t stand him. Although even those stats are skewed towards betas because alphas are increasingly not getting married in the first place.

    Like


  132. on July 13, 2010 at 9:11 am Badger Nation

    “Every day, what did she do you for you?”

    I assume this was a Freudian slip? 😛

    “For a man in today’s society, getting married is like playing Russian roulette with his future. If you do not understand this, Google “marriage 2.0″ & read the first several search returns.”

    I show this stuff to guys, and they just sort of shrug and pretend it’s not there. It just blows my mind how they stick their heads in the sand. Some give me lines about how prenups aren’t romantic, etc etc and I just can’t believe they are so naive and feminized.

    To take a page from Chomsky/the left, these are cultural games you don’t have to play! Don’t tolerate society’s bullshit by getting in the sandbox in the first place!

    Like


  133. on July 13, 2010 at 9:16 am namae nanka

    Ronin that was hilarious, but it arouses suspicion on the man’s abilities.

    Madam Sniper Lolita

    Since your highness has stopped me from posting any comments on your blog.

    “Women have long been taught how to be feminine, and interestingly that requires bottling in a slew of very human emotions including anger.”

    No madam, the older women here are more masculine than you ever will be. The women 50 years ago were more masculine than many men today. Today’s women mostly BS about how being angry is being maculine, not realizing that emotions are essentially feminine qualities, women just don’t have the balls to follow them up openly.

    And yes that was a preggo dress. I hope it comes in handy one day.

    Like


  134. on July 13, 2010 at 9:19 am Badger Nation

    dragnet on your study,

    These psychologists are always missing the point. They are correct to note the preselection, but they don’t consider that pursuing an attached man makes the rejection easy to take because you can blame it on his morals. Women today still feel they are not supposed to get rejected.

    Like


  135. on July 13, 2010 at 9:22 am Badger Nation

    “Today’s women mostly BS about how being angry is being maculine, not realizing that emotions are essentially feminine qualities, women just don’t have the balls to follow them up openly.”

    I don’t buy this. Men are very emotional, it’s a human quality, but it’s masculine to not let your emotions make decisions for you (that’s a very feminine act). Men see emotions as either rewards for work well done, as in teamwork rush or sex, or problems to be solved – I’m pissed off so I’m going to the cave for a while. Women are encouraged to let their “feeeeeelings” drive what they do, which is almost always a disaster, and like to use emotions as a trump card against rational, balanced discourse (that makes me ANGRY and we’re not going to think anymore! My needs are the only ones that matter! )

    Like


  136. Oh, fun post! Love this blog.

    The problem I am having as a female with never marrieds and/or divorced is that I have more money than they do.

    R and C’s saying, “its complicated” and leave it at that. Is far safer than going into it. I really do not need to know – just yet.

    I wanted to get to know the person and listen to what he has to say. We do not have to discuss heavy stuff…I no longer judge men over 35 about why they are or are not married. If I listen to him I can find out everything I need to know without asking a thing. If we ladies could only STFU and listen to HIM SPEAK, miscommunications might be lowered.

    thelp999

    Like


  137. @Anonymous

    “In the former Warsaw Pact or Asia a man can explain this to any beautiful and intelligent 21 year old and she will see this as a reasonable explanation and even romantic because it says that she is qualified over the older women the man once knew”

    So you’re working with a very narrow window IQ-wise? Smart enough to see the advantages of youth and beauty and stupid enough to think that those advantages will last forever. Hmmm.

    Like


  138. @Badger Nation

    “The idea that divorce is an institution strictly caused by philandering or inattentive husbands is way past its shelf life. People just don’t want to accept that a lot of divorces occur when the man did nothing wrong.”

    I’m of an age where I see a lotg of “gray” or “silver” divorces initiated by women where the man hasn’t done anything wrong. Surprisingly, what I see about three weeks after the man has left the home and the anger subsides is relief to be gone. I was appalled when I started to notice all these marriages breaking up around me, but if the men don’t care and the women don’t care, why should I? A lot of marriages that break up at this point are dead marriages anyway.

    A lot of women don’t feel they NEED men anymore. I think it makes more sense to try to figure out one keeps the love and desire alive than to worry about need. Is keeping some woman around for the money, what guys really want?

    Like


  139. on July 13, 2010 at 12:41 pm greatbooksformen

    lozlzlzolzlz

    teh advice one owuld give 2 men is fairly consistent throughout their decades gets lottsa pussy don’t sign no contracts lozlzlz have kids maybe but without contracts lzozlzlzl otherwse ben bernake can use your work to transpose his fiat debt based dollars into physialc wleath and preoperty lzozlzlzozlz

    the advice i would giveto women is different:

    18-25: find a good man and get married and be good to him
    25-30: oh well you blew your chance by blowing too much cocka cocka and taking too many in yhe anuses
    30-35: lzozlzozolzlz let me help you pick out a cat: NOT!!!!
    35-40: all those degrees and fiat dollars lzozlzzlozlzl and yet you wonder why your life is so empty zlozlzlz

    Like


  140. on July 13, 2010 at 12:41 pm greatbooksformen

    ^^^^^

    kzozlzozlzlzozozl!!!

    it’s because fiat dollars ain’t worth nothin but debt! lzozlzl

    Like


  141. on July 13, 2010 at 12:42 pm greatbooksformen

    ^^^^^

    hahahahhahahahahah lzozlzlzozlzlzozzlzlzo

    and as you chased fiat dollars and marketd subrpime loans while wearing short skirts 4 ben bernanke your lzozlzolzozlzzolzzozlzozlzozlz your eggs and gina dried right on up lzozlzozlzozlzozlzlzozozozozl

    Like


  142. Your some bastard….
    My Girlfriend is Italian/Austrian with a dislike/inferiority complex about all things German. Happily my not so distant ex is of the German persuasion.
    I’ve never realized why this has continually intrigued her until now..

    Like


  143. on July 13, 2010 at 2:32 pm namae nanka

    “Men are very emotional, it’s a human quality,”

    and animal quality and so forth. Let’s not go down that road.

    Not to say that you’re wrong about what you wrote, but generalisations shouldn’t be removed from the perspective.

    Like


  144. Lily

    @Doug1
    As you probably know by now, I have no feminist agenda but was curious at ‘I.e. when a 23yo girl marries a 10 year older guy she’s less likely to get divorced than if married to one her own age.’ Can you point me somewhere for some info on this?

    This conclusion comes from a fairly recent Australian study IIRC with a sizable sample size that was linked in Roissy comments six months ago or so, roughly. It was linked for different purposes but the write up had some fairly detailed tables allowing me to deduce the above.

    The effect (correlation really) of a significantly older male being married to a young twenties woman wasn’t huge but looked significant. I don’t have it at hand. Feel free to look for it.

    I’ve seen other data that show that young twenties married women who get divorced do so most often after only a short time, e.g. within two years. If she didn’t have kids, as I said above, the cost all around in this definitely non virginal at marriage society we have is generally not so great. Not even that much divorce 2.0 theft in such cases, usually. A lot like a non married living together breakup. Though if he’s 10 years older divorce theft to some degree becomes more likely due to likely income disparity.

    Like


  145. The effect (correlation really) of a significantly older male being married to a young twenties woman wasn’t huge but looked significant.

    Hmm…I take this to mean that the study didn’t say anything of the sort, but you “feel” that it was significant and are now throwing correlation around?

    Heh.

    That said, I’ve seen some studies that show that people who tend to be closer (albeit not right on top of each other) in age and who tend to be more flexible (which most often means a little younger) in life tend to have more successful marriages. This is oft attributed to the fact that people who have similar life goals and are in similar places at similar times (and who are young enough to be flexible if something doesn’t go exactly as planned) are less likely to split up.

    My guess in the couples with a 10-15+ year age difference is that the girl wants money and the guy wants youth, and the marriages only stay together because of that…which, of course, is not at all a bad thing (assuming the marriage can stay). Especially since it’s probably the best that a lot of people can get.

    Like


  146. on July 13, 2010 at 3:08 pm Gunslingergregi

    ””'(assuming the marriage can stay)””””’

    That is the problem you can assume that 50 percent of marriages will fail and it is the nature of marriage.

    Like


  147. @ namae

    “No madam, the older women here are more masculine than you ever will be.”

    LOL. J adjust her testes in her y-fronts and growls “Thanks, bro.”

    “Today’s women mostly BS about how being angry is being maculine, not realizing that emotions are essentially feminine qualities,”

    Everyone has emotions; we couldn’t live without them. Depending on the culture, men are often freer to express anger than women are. In many of those same cultures, men are less free to express the more tender emotions. I’m not sure that there is anything particularly masculine or feminine about any emotion.

    “women just don’t have the balls to follow them up openly. ”

    Nah, women’s prisons are full of women who do.

    It’s interesting that you regard the older women here–who are perhaps more assertive and emotional than younger women–as masculine because you are falling into the same mental habit as those who deny that women get angry.

    BTW, I hope too Sniper gets to wear a maternity dress someday. My sons are the best, and being a mother has been one of the coolest things in my life. I highly recommend it.

    Like


  148. “This is oft attributed to the fact that people who have similar life goals and are in similar places at similar times (and who are young enough to be flexible if something doesn’t go exactly as planned) are less likely to split up.”

    I do think that is key, being “young enough” to be flexible. Women who wait too long to marry (28+, and most definitely mid 30s) typically can’t yield in any way for the greater good of the relationship. They’re just too fixated, unwavering, demanding, etc. Perhaps, that’s why they wait so long to get married in the first place.

    And I’m gonna throw out one that I really can’t utter IRL unless I want NOW descending on my doorstep, and that’s women who have children later (let’s say first kid at 34, but possibly I should lower this cutoff), suck as parents. It’s either because they’re used to a very structured, rigid lifestyle (which is why they delayed having kids- sorry, but your 3-month-old doesn’t care what’s in your 401k when you’re dropping him off at daycare for 10+ hours.) or biologically it’s a much better idea to begin having children when you’re in your prime (not just because it’s easier fertility-wise), but because the activation of maternal hormones is much different than when you’re aging.

    And as we’re all aware feminism has been very successful at getting young women to ignore their desire for children. Being pregnant is pretty blissful (minus the morning sickness), but feminists have succeeded into convincing many women they’re simply incubators for an evil science experiment.

    Like


  149. @Badger Nation

    “Today’s American woman has higher demands for a husband than ever.”

    Maybe not higher but different. The rules have changed for guys, in midstream in the case of guys my age. They went into marriage as “providers,” but are now expected to provide emotional fulfillment and often don’t have tools to do that.

    People also live longer than ever and go through more changes. When my husband and I first married, we were DINKS–double income, no kids–for many years. We had a very egalitarian marriage, mostly because we brought in about the same amount of money. Then came the kids and I stayed home.
    Everything changed; he was the breadwinner and I became the traditional housewife at first, a flextime worker later. When the kids go, I imagine things will change again. We will enter into phase that, in years past, most people died before entering. We will have to negotiate more change than couples in any previous generation have had to. And though we love each other, based on what I see when I look around myself, it seems that how we negotiate those changes will make or break our marriage.

    In fairness, I have to say that it calls for more flexibility and effort from my husband than my dad ever had to put in. OTOH, we have a better marriage than either of our sets of parents did.

    Like


  150. @wantadvice

    Don’t contact her. She has your number and will contact you when (and if) she comes through. Any contact would be very beta. You don’t need her!

    Like


  151. @Name

    “and that’s women who have children later (let’s say first kid at 34, but possibly I should lower this cutoff), suck as parents. It’s either because they’re used to a very structured, rigid lifestyle (which is why they delayed having kids- sorry, but your 3-month-old doesn’t care what’s in your 401k when you’re dropping him off at daycare for 10+ hours.) or biologically it’s a much better idea to begin having children when you’re in your prime (not just because it’s easier fertility-wise), but because the activation of maternal hormones is much different than when you’re aging.”

    Nah, I was older than that, and everyone who knows me IRL thinks I’m an amazing mother. It would have been much easier physically, but a plus of being older is that you don’t sweat the small stuff. Of course, there is a lot of individual variation, but I see young women who are ignorant, vicious and authoritarian with kids. I’ve always been more authoritative than authoritarian, and my sons are basically really good kids who can think for themselves.
    They’re happy and well-adjusted kids. My 401K, OTOH, is fucked.

    Like


  152. Name —

    I agree with the being young enough to be flexible — but this absolutely goes for men, as well. I’ve met only two or three men over the age of 35 who are fun and flexible — most are just as stuck in their ways as aging women are. And baggage is unattractive on either sex.

    That said, this:

    And I’m gonna throw out one that I really can’t utter IRL unless I want NOW descending on my doorstep, and that’s women who have children later (let’s say first kid at 34, but possibly I should lower this cutoff), suck as parents.

    I have not necessarily found to be true. My mother was 41 when I was born (note: I was adopted), and I know several fantastic mothers who were in their mid-to-late thirties when they had children. The difference, I believe, is that all of these women really wanted children and had planned their whole lives for it. None of them suddenly woke up one day and discovered the ticking clock — in fact most of them were trying for kids much earlier.

    Like


  153. *found this

    Like


  154. on July 13, 2010 at 5:59 pm namae nanka

    “Everyone has emotions; we couldn’t live without them. ”

    In reverse.

    “It’s interesting that you regard the older women here–who are perhaps more assertive and emotional than younger women–as masculine because you are falling into the same mental habit as those who deny that women get angry.”

    I am not sure what do you mean by the mental habit. It was the culture, men are more feminine than they were earlier. Same with women. Relativity doesn’t change absolutes.

    Like


  155. @J,

    (If you’re still reading this thread, anyway).

    They went into marriage as “providers,” but are now expected to provide emotional fulfillment and often don’t have tools to do that.

    This is why I’ve avoided marriage, and in my case, it has been a wise decision, because I find women my age (40) are much more realistic, mature and wise.

    As a male, my inclination is towards rational thought/systems/targets/equations.

    Could you please list the range of services in bullet form as to what comprises emotional fulfillment.

    You’re correct, women initiate divorce now because they’re husbands aren’t sensitive enough. Women leave now when they become bored.

    I must admit, as a man I am prepared to provide emotional fulfillment to a child, in particular my child, but I was raised to believe that fully grown women are adults, and should be treated as such.

    By demanding emotional fulfillment from your husband, are you not then infantilizing yourself?

    By emotional fulfillment, do you mean entertainment and/or drama?

    Like


  156. @Namae

    “Everyone has emotions; we couldn’t live without them. ” In reverse.”

    Nope. For example, if you didn’t have fear, you wouldn’t flee or fight when appropriate.

    “It’s interesting that you regard the older women here–who are perhaps more assertive and emotional than younger women–as masculine because you are falling into the same mental habit as those who deny that women get angry.”

    “I am not sure what do you mean by the mental habit.”

    I mean you are stereotyping. To say that female emotion is all sugar and spice is indeed a ridiculous stereotype. Women can obviously get quite angry. To say that the more rational, less emotional women here are masculine is the flip side of that stereotype. You are also saying that anger is masculine; therefore women who get angry are masculine.

    It also contradicts your orignal notion that all emotion is feminine.

    Like


  157. J

    So you’re working with a very narrow window IQ-wise? Smart enough to see the advantages of youth and beauty and stupid enough to think that those advantages will last forever. Hmmm.

    At what point does the recklessness of living for today slide into joy killing future orientation?

    Do we want to save ALL our cookies for tomorrow?

    Future shmuture. If you set your life up such that getting new mates is easy, then security is not something that should weight heavy in your life decisions.

    Of course a 21 year old girl isn’t going to be concerned about who she will be living with when she is 90. Why would she be?

    Like


  158. Tim

    By demanding emotional fulfillment from your husband, are you not then infantilizing yourself?

    By emotional fulfillment, do you mean entertainment and/or drama?

    Reality is a bitch. But if you love reality, reality will love you back, in it’s bitchy way.

    Yes.

    To keep a woman you have to infantilize her and give her drama.

    Like


  159. LILGRL

    Hmm…I take this to mean that the study didn’t say anything of the sort, but you “feel” that it was significant and are now throwing correlation around?

    You take it wrong.

    Like


  160. on July 13, 2010 at 8:26 pm namae nanka

    “Nope. For example, if you didn’t have fear, you wouldn’t flee or fight when appropriate.”

    flee or fight isn’t an emotional response. Emotions are not instincts. Emotions can be trained.

    ” I mean you are stereotyping.”

    somwhat, or you can use a less negative word like categorizing.

    ” To say that female emotion is all sugar and spice is indeed a ridiculous stereotype. ”

    Of course women have had all the fun with it.

    “Women can obviously get quite angry.”

    Yes it only takes a few moments observing them with someone with lower physical strength, like a child. Or the lesbian DV rates.

    “To say that the more rational, less emotional women here are masculine is the flip side of that stereotype.”

    No, it fits in with my world view of things – rationality- masculine attribute
    emotionality – feminine attribute

    ” You are also saying that anger is masculine; therefore women who get angry are masculine.”

    I was saying emotions and hence anger is feminine?!

    “It also contradicts your orignal notion that all emotion is feminine.”

    uh-huh 🙂

    Like


  161. @Tim
    Thanks 🙂

    @Kate
    Thinking about it more, in a way I’d actually like to be with someone my own age. The reason I hang out with the player (though not in that way) is it’s like having a best friend but with mutual attraction and after having done the older man thing, it’s just a completely different dynamic and very refreshing. I think the closest I can call it is like being a boyfriend/girlfriend at 15 because we just have lots of fun together and have the same cultural references.

    But thinking back on my life I don’t know what I’d done differently, in my early twenties guys my age weren’t ready to be settled down in a relationship. (And I’m glad I spent that time married, I see a lot of single women my age looking jaded and not having much sense of fun or whimsy).

    And now at this stage, decent guys (alphas or betas) of my age are relatively-recently married and the singles ones are either players whose longest relationship is a few months or herbs/omegas.

    From what I see around me the best bet for an LTR is one of the slightly older guys out of a marriage. If it was just for fun for a little while, then of course a younger guy may make more sense, even a player though of course if this period went on for too long, then one would get far less approaches as one ages.

    Like


  162. @Tim

    “By demanding emotional fulfillment from your husband, are you not then infantilizing yourself?”
    I think in the case of the silver divorcees, it just means more than the man being a traditional provider type and that’s his ‘job’ done. And they are expecting the emotional fulfilment out of the marriage rather than the man providing emotional fulfilment to her, i.e. her expectation is that they both get emotional fulfilment out of the relationship. But maybe it’s not so important to men?

    I do think both genders get the ‘is that it’ moment, the mid life crisis seems to happen at different ages (often to the same person). I obviously don’t know as many silver divorces as J and haven’t read up much about it but the ones I’ve seen personally are the woman usually has a lot more interests than the man and he’s happy to stay at home and potter around the garden and read military history books in this study or something and she wants them to travel, do her pottery whatever and at some stage she thinks actually she’s doing all this on her own anyway and she’s had years of looking after other people, it’s time for her. Often these women married young and consider they’ve spent years ‘putting other people first’.

    Like


  163. “To keep a woman you have to infantilize her and give her drama.”

    Unless, of course, the woman is INTJ and despises drama. Then you simply need to pound her hard in the bedroom at regularly scheduled intervals and all is well.

    Like


  164. @Lily,

    Ok, that makes more sense. I have no problem with the initial phase, of course in the beginning there is seduction and the excitement, but then everyone understands I think that marriage won’t always be a biochemical high; both men and women within a marriage will eventually no longer become aroused by their partners, and it seems more like work. I was just a little worried that J was demanding emotional fulfillment -all the time, 24/7- for the duration of the marriage. I don’t think any man can do that, not even Clooney (if he were married).

    Like


  165. Name

    “To keep a woman you have to infantilize her and give her drama.”

    Unless, of course, the woman is INTJ and despises drama. Then you simply need to pound her hard in the bedroom at regularly scheduled intervals and all is well.

    And that’s not dramatic?

    Anyway, I’ve never met a woman who didn’t need to be emotionally manipulated to have ups and downs. I disagree with you that such a woman exists. Of course temperment will dictate which specific ups and downs are appropriate.

    Like


  166. Tim

    both men and women within a marriage will eventually no longer become aroused by their partners, and it seems more like work.

    If that’s so, what is your motivation to take on that job?

    Like


  167. Hi Tim,

    “Could you please list the range of services in bullet form as to what comprises emotional fulfillment.”

    I’m sorry, but no. It varies from woman to woman. Me, I’m happy with sort of a buddy thing, having fun together coupled with good sex. And I like my husband to support me in times of crisis. I can’t speak for others.

    “I must admit, as a man I am prepared to provide emotional fulfillment to a child, in particular my child, but I was raised to believe that fully grown women are adults, and should be treated as such.”

    If you regard woman as adults, you really stand out among the male readers of this blog. I like to think of myself as adult, but I still want an emotional relationship with my husband. It’s very different though from what I would provide a child. More sexual obviously, more reciprocal, more romantic.

    “By demanding emotional fulfillment from your husband, are you not then infantilizing yourself?”

    Not at all, I give things to my husband that I didn’t give to my father. The reciprocal giving is a defining factor in an adult relationship.

    “By emotional fulfillment, do you mean entertainment and/or drama?”

    I think we entertain each other. Twenty-some years together, and he still cracks me up!! We both hate drama.

    Like


  168. @ Tim

    “both men and women within a marriage will eventually no longer become aroused by their partners, and it seems more like work.”

    In a good marriage, sex actually gets better over time.

    “I was just a little worried that J was demanding emotional fulfillment -all the time, 24/7- for the duration of the marriage.”

    I was describing a phenomena I see around me as opposed to one that currently exists in my own marriage. I was also theorizing about how to NOT be affected by it in the future.

    Like


  169. @Xsplat,

    No, I’m in no rush to get hitched; just saying I want to be prepared in case it one day happens. However, I have read that for men, once they are over 40, it statistically does not happen. Which I’m fine with. My sister has a great relationship with her partner. (cohabiting).

    @J,

    Ok, thanks for your reply, and it seems reasonable. My sister takes up ‘Latin dancing’ to get her emotional/romantic fix. I remember she used to be pissed that she couldn’t find a man before who danced. I don’t think women properly understand how stupid most white men feel dancing. I’m not kidding. I’d go so far as to say it makes me feel a little gay. (not that there’s anything wrong with that).

    If all it takes is a little dancing or flowers then I suppose that’s not too much to ask. On the other hand, I’ve seen men whose wives’ sucked the masculinity out of them. It’s a terrible thing to see a man become his wife’s bitch.

    Like


  170. “And that’s not dramatic?”

    Nope. Not compared to the dram-o-meter of 90-95% of females. I AM human, afterall. I do have a couple of feelings every now and then.

    Like


  171. Tim However, I have read that for men, once they are over 40, it statistically does not happen

    they use to say the same thing about women. Did fortune mag once have an article that said something like once a woman is over 40 she is more likely to be struck by lighting or hit by a bus than get married.

    Stats are good sometimes(sorry polymath) but don’t put all your trust in numbers my friend.

    Like


  172. I don’t think women properly understand how stupid most white men feel dancing. I’m not kidding. I’d go so far as to say it makes me feel a little gay.

    Tim speak for yourself buddy. This dudes 60 and in better shape than many men less than half his age. Look at his muscle tone. he’s an old freak too, you see what he did with his fingers and tongue.

    Like


  173. I don’t know where you find these vids, Chic, but they’re awesome. I always have a good laugh. Thx.

    And the one of the asian kid break dancing was a riot.

    BTW, whatever happened to coffee, cigarettes and jazz blog?

    And is that you on your new blog, the nubian goddess? For some reason I thought you had children, did I read that somewhere or was I mistaken?

    Like


  174. on July 14, 2010 at 12:54 am Robert Seymour

    The reason divorcee status hurts women isn’t a lack of preselection by men. It’s that men are hard-wired to favour chasteness like youth.

    When a women has kids or has had a husband, it’s like a milder form of being a porn star or a hooker. It tells the primate in us that if we screw her, the progeny exiting her womb is less likely to be ours. It’s much the same instinct that is triggered when you’re screwing a chick that feels ‘loose’.

    Like


  175. Hi exsplat,

    “Future shmuture. If you set your life up such that getting new mates is easy, then security is not something that should weight heavy in your life decisions.”

    I don’t want to get into a huge, futile debate about how long a guy can do that. I will say that at my age, you do start to see old, lonely, former playas. But if you want to live for today, fine. In my experience, life is like a store, we can get what we want but sooner or later the bill comes due. The secret is knowing what you want and being willing to pay the price.

    “Of course a 21 year old girl isn’t going to be concerned about who she will be living with when she is 90. Why would she be?”

    Because if she is smart, she’ll realize that going into relationships with the idea of their not being permanent is tantamount to putting a foot on the carousel. What becomes of the 20yos that PUAs serially seduce? In ten years, they become the 30yo used up tingle followers that that you guys are complaining about.

    No sense of complicity in that, fellas?

    Like


  176. @Exsplat

    “To keep a woman you have to infantilize her and give her drama.”

    EEWWW, dude. We’ve had this discussion before, so just eeww.

    Like


  177. @Tim,

    “Ok, thanks for your reply, and it seems reasonable. ”

    Yor welcome and thank you!

    “My sister takes up ‘Latin dancing’ …”

    I love to dance, but my husband, uptight white guy that he is 😉 doesn’t dance. It’s not a deal-breaker.

    “I’d go so far as to say it makes me feel a little gay. (not that there’s anything wrong with that). ”

    LOL. Yeah, dancing can be a little gay. But PUAs tend to be good dancers.

    There’s the whole McArdle thread that I didn’t get into where the some of the debate centers around her calling PUAs “girly.” IMHO, many are. Mystery, for example, is both extremely unattractive and girly in my book. Back in the Pliestocene when I was still dating, I found a lot of PUA types to have something vaguely effeminate about them–the clothes, the concern for appearances, the narcissism, sometimes the tendency to be mama’s boys. The hysterical reaction some of the guys to McArdle sort of proves her right.

    “If all it takes is a little dancing … It’s a terrible thing to see a man become his wife’s bitch.”

    It’s all about having a sense of balance. You can be romantic or simply considerate without being a bitch.

    Like


  178. @Robert Seymour

    So, what about widows?

    Like


  179. @ namae nanka

    “flee or fight isn’t an emotional response. Emotions are not instincts.”

    Emotions are based in instinct; it’s the evolutionary root of emotion.

    “I mean you are stereotyping.”somwhat, or you can use a less negative word like categorizing.

    I intentionally avoided the word the first time around and you didn’t get my drift.

    ” To say that female emotion is all sugar and spice is indeed a ridiculous stereotype. ”Of course women have had all the fun with it.

    Aw, c’mon

    “Women can obviously get quite angry.”Yes it only takes a few moments observing them with someone with lower physical strength, like a child. Or the lesbian DV rates.

    Hey, I despise a female bully as much as a male one.

    “To say that the more rational, less emotional women here are masculine is the flip side of that stereotype.”No, it fits in with my world view of things – rationality- masculine attribute emotionality – feminine attribute.

    You seemed to me to be saying that the older women here are both angry (feminine in your view) and argumentative, rationalist and macsuline. There’s the contradiction.

    ” You are also saying that anger is masculine; therefore women who get angry are masculine.”

    So, have you heard the recent Mel Gibson tapes? Who’s the bitch there and who’s the man. Even with the faux alpha-posturing, I say Mel’s the bitch. Oksana’s pretty cool and calculating. That makes here masculine, right? With her tight clothes, trout pout, and fake boobs? Is she masculine or feminine? See how complicated it gets when you look at attributes in a stereotypical way?

    Like


  180. @Lily

    Thanks for stepping in and giving a fuller explanation. Liked the tired of taking care of others bit; I see that IRL.

    Like


  181. @ J
    You’re welcome 🙂

    Actually on another note, something that occurs to me, women marrying a man who is 10-15 years older, with the difference in life expectancy it means that she could have up to 25 years on her own in later life. She can have her later life freedom and no need for divorce theft!

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  182. @Robert Seymour
    “When a women has kids or has had a husband, it’s like a milder form of being a porn star or a hooker. It tells the primate in us that if we screw her, the progeny exiting her womb is less likely to be ours.”
    Really? Let’s say you’re marrying a woman who is 30 and one has been married for 7 years and divorced (let’s say got married to their college sweetheart and they drifted apart, starter marriage) the other been single and dating all the time. You think the married one is more likely to cheat on you?

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  183. ” Let’s say you’re marrying a woman who is 30 and one has been married for 7 years and divorced (let’s say got married to their college sweetheart and they drifted apart, starter marriage) the other been single and dating all the time. You think the married one is more likely to cheat on you?”

    Lily,
    You’re probably talking to the clouds now. Hardly anyone here is going to even believe such a notion (college sweethearts-let alone high school sweethearts :). And if they did, then they’d simply discount the person-“no hot female would settle so young” she must be fat/hideous, etc. Or “she must be really, really stupid. No respectable woman who is also hot would not know her true market value. I wouldn’t want a woman that stupid because she might hump the refrigerator repair guy when he asks if her meat dethawed yet.” Or that only happens to rural folks who really don’t count anyway because they were raised so far removed from urban America. (which is probably true 🙂

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  184. @Lily at 12:30

    Well, I’ve known many a happy widow. I just wouldn’t want to be one. I’d miss my husband. Being with a man you wouldn’t miss is a big waste.

    As to divorce theft, that’s something the guys here like to go on about, but personally I don’t see it. I see myself as an equal contributor to the marriage as a full time worker before the kids, a flex-time worker since the kids stated school and a homemaker whose labor would cost, according to some estimates, over 100K per year if my husband had to hire people to do what I do. I fully deserve my half.

    As far as a second husband goes, I see some benefits to going younger. Who wants a sick old man on their hands the second time around? If my genes do what I think they will, I’ll be a very young and healthy 70 yo. Most people think I’m ten years younger than I am. If I were a widow, I’d rather travel the world with a 60 yo guy at that point than push an 80 yo’s wheelchair. And me and 60 yo would physiologically be about the same age!

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  185. @ Name

    Ha ha, you’re right, they won’t. However, many of them are probably not the marrying types anyway so it doesn’t really matter what they think
    http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/3088165
    (long and a bit boring but some interesting stuff within it)

    It’s a bit like people without children making judgements on people with children.

    However, college sweethearts aside, I was interested on why someone would think a woman who had been married for most of her twenties was more likely to cheat on them in their than someone who had spent that time dating various guys.

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  186. on July 14, 2010 at 3:36 pm namae nanka

    “Emotions are based in instinct; it’s the evolutionary root of emotion.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion
    we can go down to animals if you want. That would only lower the feminine even further.

    “I intentionally avoided the word the first time around and you didn’t get my drift.”

    You don’t seem to get my argument.

    “You seemed to me to be saying that the older women here are both angry (feminine in your view) and argumentative, rationalist and macsuline. There’s the contradiction.”

    No, I presumed that they are more masculine because they were raised in a more masculine culture. In other words, less feminine that today’s.

    “So, have you heard the recent Mel Gibson tapes? Who’s the bitch there and who’s the man. Even with the faux alpha-posturing, I say Mel’s the bitch. Oksana’s pretty cool and calculating.”

    searched can’t find em. Maybe taken off the net.

    ” That makes here masculine, right? With her tight clothes, trout pout, and fake boobs? Is she masculine or feminine?”

    It wasn’t – Is it black or is it white?
    It was – Is it darker or lighter?

    ” See how complicated it gets when you look at attributes in a stereotypical way?”

    Yet, there is a black and there is a white but grayness exists everywhere.

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  187. Sniper

    @ Pol–
    If women initiate most divorces, wouldn’t divorced woman mean fickle bitch?

    It doesn’t matter why the woman divorces him. Assuming that marriage is ideal for women (provided for, protection, stability, commitment), if a woman leaves all this and takes a hit to her market value by becoming a single mom, then he probably really sucks and is likely a flaming beta.

    Women want men who are currently taken. Not taken a long time ago, used up, and then thrown away. That’s just gross.

    She doesn’t leave all that under uber feminist America’s divorce 2.0. She gets to keep it all for the most part, especially if she’s married an upper middle class earning man. She gets the house and the kids almost certainly. Even if she’s cheating, becomes emotionally involved, and refuses to stop, she can still usually kick HIM out of the house he paid for and is paying for as soon as she files for divorce. To make that a 100% deal she can call 911 after some yelling argument over her cheating, and falsely claim her husband was threatening her and she feels afraid for her life. No proof, no marks, under the abominable uber feminist VAWA he’s arrested, and released with a restraining order which forces him out of his home. Happens all the time now.

    Then he becomes her indentured servant, paying child support equal to half his after tax income or more for two kids regardless of her income, or what she could earn if she really wanted to prioritize earning. With no enforcement of child visitation.

    No this hasn’t happened to me, but to friends, and I’ve read up.

    Marriage in America is now ill advised for men, even if they don’t want to make like Roissy. Seriously. Live together instead and endlessly stall her on marriage. If she threatens to leave call her bluff. If she does, time for new love.

    If men want kids, wait till you’re 40 or older and have them with a girl 10-15yrs younger, if you’ve got the alpha stones. But don’t even consider it without a prenup that mimics living together in the event of a divorce. She’ll still get that way upped by feminists under the “deadbeat dads” slogan in the early 90s child support=alimony, but at least she won’t get half the wealth you earned while married nor alimony.

    Alimony is obscene in these women are in college almost 50% more than men days. Totally obscene. (Oh and 96% of alimony in the mid oughts was paid by men.)

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  188. And is that you on your new blog, the nubian goddess?

    Nope not me but it’s one of my favorite blogs. She is a very pretty girl isn’t she 🙂 Too thin for some men here but I know Gordy and PA like them super boney.

    For some reason I thought you had children

    *chic noir gets bhetti MD to write a ginka galoba scrip for Tim ASAP*

    did I read that somewhere or was I mistaken?
    You are mistaken, no children for chic noir sir.

    I don’t know where you find these vids, Chic, but they’re awesome. I always have a good laugh. Thx

    That’s what I post those videos for and you’re welcome. Did you check out the 60 year old guys muscle tone? He looking pretty good for an older man.

    BTW, whatever happened to coffee, cigarettes and jazz blog?

    It’s still there. Just click on my handle. I have a fiction piece posted.

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  189. That was addreseed to Tim, sorry.

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  190. @namae

    Agreed regaerding the shades of gray. Check out Radar.com for the tapes.

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  191. “This is why I have discovered that a man telling girls he was once engaged works to stimulate their curiosity. And female curiosity is the catalyst that speeds the chemical reaction leading to tingles. Why engaged? Because former finacée sounds sexier than ex-wife. It is pregnant with romantic and tragic possibility. She sees this man, once engaged but no longer, and her mind reels with fantasy of what went wrong. Was it irreconcilable differences? Did he cheat on her? Did she move away? Did he make demands she couldn’t meet? Did she die in a horrible car accident? Was there a vast cultural gulf? Did her family sabotage their love? What did she look like?”

    She died in a horrible car accident!

    Use it always! And carry on your lies from there… mwah hah huh!

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  192. ‘It’s complicated’ – what a brilliant way to end the post!

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  193. on July 17, 2010 at 1:27 am anonymous bastard

    Agreed with all, I could have damned near hugged you for that “It’s Complicated line”. It wasn’t a classic lol, it was more a lean back and warmly chuckle kind of laugh.

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  194. […] Telling Girls You Were Once Engaged, Aging Urban Broads: The Manliest Of Women, Feminists Still Not Getting It, Never Will, Why You […]

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  195. […] Telling Girls You Were Once Engaged, Aging Urban Broads: The Manliest Of Women, Feminists Still Not Getting It, Never Will, She’s […]

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  196. If you’re going to lie, why not just wear a fake wedding ring and act like you have a wife?

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