An Analysis Of Text Game

The Chateau has received quite a few requests for text game advice lately. Here are a few.

Email #1

First of all, let me say thanks a ton for your insightful blog. Two months ago, I didn’t even know what game was. Largely due to reading your’s and Roosh’s blogs, I’m slowly climbing the ladder from greater beta (my natural element) toward alphadom. Two weeks worth of reading the knowledge contained within the catacombs of the Chateau helped me get a bang!

Today I got into a text conversation with a girl I’ve been banging, and I think I ran some solid text game with interesting results. The back story is that I’ve been sick, haven’t bothered contacting her in 4 days and she’s wondering where I’ve been. She’s asking if my illness is causing me to lose muscle mass and strength. See the relevant part of the conversation below:

Her: I’ve got an extra 5 lbs you can have 🙂

Me: Psh you don’t have any extra weight, I can bench press two of you

Her: You can huh? You only seemed to manage one of me at the pool!

Me: That’s shoulder press, totally different

Her: Let’s see this bench press then, sir!

Me: Find a girl of equal weight and I’ll bench the two of you in a stack. No dudes though, I ain’t no fruit!

Her: You just want to see me on top of another girl!

Me: She can be on top of you, I’m not picky

Her: As long as i get to pick her out… I’m not sold on your taste 😉

Me: I have impeccable taste, thankyouverymuch. However, I’ll allow you to pick your top 3 choices and then I’ll narrow it down

Her: You trust my taste in women then? I pick katty, sandy, or madi 🙂

Me: Kat heartily dislikes my presence, so she’s vetoed by executive decision. Pics of the other two???

Her: Hot mexican or skinny blonde?

Me: Blonde for the win

Her: Haha, i haven’t seen madi in a couple of months, but i’ll work on it.

Me: I’m down

Her: Haha but fist you have to prove you can bench press me by myself.

Me: I think I can handle that

Her: Haha, but maybe not when you’re sick

Me: Im getting better

Her: Well, what are you up to after my work tonight, mr. Healthy bench presser?

Me: After you’re done? How about I work on “bench pressing” you

Her: Haha, is that what the kids are calling it these days? I’ll give you a call after work 🙂

Me: You don’t know what bench pressing two girls at once means? Get with the times! I’ll talk to you tonight

It seems like she’s down for it. Any ideas on how to [keep] the momentum of this threesome idea building until it’s a reality?

Your protege in evil and debauchery,

“Anon”

Texting as a substitute for long-form conversation is somewhat beta in nature. You risk lowering your value by playing a “girl’s game”; and make no mistake, typing hundreds of witty replies back and forth sight unseen, your dick nowhere near her pussy, is playing by a girl’s rules. It is inescapably betatizing.

That said, these are new times, and it seems a lot of girls can’t flirt outside of a textual context. A by-line of grudging acceptance has been added to the Chateau Guest Rules to account for the reality of endless text game.

As for the emailer’s question about how to swing a threesome with this chick he’s banging and texting ad nauseam, there is only a sense from the exchange that she did not fully comprehend, or accept, the seriousness of his innuendo. It sounds like she is playing along for fun, not for profit. He’s on the right track by telling her to pick out the girls she would want to include in a threesome, but his tone is too glib, when he should be affecting a pose of laconic pimpery. She should feel a growing nervousness if his offer is taken under serious consideration by her. Such nervousness would manifest as stronger shit tests, which is how girls relieve their burgeoning arousal (which, in women, is always tainted with a hint of fear), yet her shit tests in this exchange are too playful and goofy to suggest anything other than she doesn’t really believe what he’s saying.

His tone, too, sounds overeager. There should be a disqualification in there somewhere, like “we’ll see”. He should wait two weeks before bringing up the subject again, (in order to neutralize the impression of eagerness), and when he does reintroduce the subject he should do so with more dominating gravitas.

One other point: a man never submits the coda to a text exchange (or, for that matter, a phone conversation), unless he is telling her he has to go. The last text should have been hers, when she wrote “I’ll give you a call after work :)”.

******

Email #2

Here is a great example of non sequitur game in action.

I felt I must share a recent experience I’ve had, and reiterate how truly powerful the non-sequitor game is, (not too mention the purely alpha possibilities it opens.)

When you posted your readers email and your comments/analysis on the email I was sitting on the couch, surfing the internet trying to decide which way my weekend was going to take me.  The obvious answer was to try what you had posted, I texted this super hot Russian-hole I’d met a couple weeks prior we had hung out a couple times prior.  I really felt I was getting close to the LJBF mode so I had stopped contacting her and was letting her ice.  The text coversation is as follows:

(2:35p) me:  sounds good

(2:35p) her: 🙂 ? What sounds good? 🙂

(2:47p) me:  my bad wrong person

(2:48p) her:  🙂 ok how r u?

(2:53p) me:  good

(2:55p) her:  🙂 I just woke up from a nap 🙂 thinking what im going to do today..

(3:08p)  her:  😦 no plans at all..for now i think maybe a movie later…

(4 :23p)  her:  still home, did you want to hang out? 🙂

(4:45p)  me:  not feeling the movie thing

(4:45p)  her:  it’s ok, we can do what you want, i can be ready in 20 minutes

(5:12p)  me:  yeah sounds good

(I re-use the opener to make reenforce that we’re only talking because I accidently texted and she chased me into hanging out)

(5:56p)  me:  on my way

I picked her up and we hung out, we went to bourbon street and I did everything I could to to continue the facade that I didn’t really even care about hanging out with her.  I smiled at every 8+ girl I saw, and let this guy continue to hit on her through much of the night, at one point my mom called (I know not cool, but my dad is chronically ill and when she calls that late something bad has usually happened… of course I never let the girl knew who called I simply just walked out of the bar, phone-to-ear, and got the intel on my dad.)  I was out for a few minutes, 3-5, when I came back in, I saw her at the bar with the guy that had been trying to game her.  Beta-man was buying her a drink, I walked up to the two and for the first time made a comment to the guy, “Having a good night?”  I’m not sure if he replied or not but she immediately asked who was on the phone, I just shook my head waiving off her question and went to restroom.  I came back out and her and Beta-man were still talking, the second I approached she left his side walked up to me and asked, “So, did you want to get a hotel?”  Of course, I responded, “Sure, let’s get out of here.”

I dropped a little bit of money on a hotel and had one of the wildest nights of my life.  From the minute we entered the room until we checked out the next morning I was covered in warm Russian love-butter.

I have always been fairly good at the game but this entry is powerful, it really emphasizes the power of text-game. This shit is evil good and must be added to everyone’s playbook that is trying to capitalize on a number you have but can’t seem to f-close.

When we left the hotel on the ride home she asked why I don’t have a girl friend and I told her that I get bored easy, telling her, “When I meet a girl I buy a gallon of milk, and when it expires I get rid of her.”  I have no idea where that line came from but it just flowed out effortlessly, in the couple weeks since the f-close it has been nothing but her chasing me, trying to not beat the expiration date rule.

+1 for aloofness and non-sequitor game.

Indeed, young padawan. Not only is this a fantastic example of non sequitur game, it is also a clinic in how to properly run aloof and indifferent uncaring asshole game. As has been written here before, Russian chicks are especially vulnerable to aloof game. Privet!

******

Email #3

Went on a date with a 22 year old 8.5.

She was dumb and aloof as shit (she literally has ADD, and it shows), but hot as shit. Immediate shit test: she comes in talking on the phone and doesn’t hang up when we sit down. I go to the bathroom and come back and she’s off the phone. Exceedingly difficult to talk to, it’s like she’s 15. after 1.75 hours and 2 beers, we bounced. Enough IOIs that I kissed her and we continued to make out on the street. Brought her back to my place to party with roommates, despite the fact that she said she had to get up early for a family gathering. She got shy and reserved and sucked. She was ruining my night, so I drove her home. Kissed more in the car, but she seemed more reserved on the way home.

Texted her 48 hours later: was the family gathering as fun as you envisioned?

her: it was ok. i only watched on race though. [gathering was at a race track]

me: haha. wtf did you do the whole time then?

her: i chased around a 5 year old and drank

me: lol. what’s your week looking like, we need to have our second date.

her: it’s shark week this week.

me: i live every week like it’s shark week.

No response. Her texts were always dry short, before and after we had the date. She will not text again, it’s not her style. What should I do AND What should I have done? I still want to pierce her labia.

Texting a girl after a difficult date is approval-seeking. It won’t help, and it could hurt your future chances with her. If you want to know how well a date went (as perceived by the girl, which, hate to say, is the perception that matters for getting laid), see if she texts you first. Girls who feel good after dates will often, in fact almost always, text you soon after the date has ended. They can’t help themselves. It’s like they want to shout their tingles from the top of a mountain.

Your text exchange started off badly and didn’t get any better. You are forcing rapport by asking about her family gathering when she knows you don’t really give a shit, and by dropping random “lol”s and “haha”s in reaction to her sub-par humor.

Also, when asking for a second date, never say “we need to…”. “Need” is a verboten beta word, passive and weak. You should banish its use from all your interactions with women. Instead, say “Let’s get together”, or even “I want to see you again”.

Make no mistake, her shark week excuse was a humiliating rejection so patently absurd that I’m surprised you even bothered taking her seriously after that. Your subsequent reply was beyond lame. No wonder she didn’t respond. The world could practically hear her pussy snapping shut.

What you should have done: “Bring the movies”. Text a second date meeting time and place and tell her the first round is on her. It sounds like the first date was a loss, so a follow-up from her was unlikely, and as we can see a “normal” text feeler from you did not have any positive impact on whatever lukewarm feelings she had for you. Going forward, you may want to try non sequitur game, like the emailer above. But more probably you will have to NEXT this girl.

******

Email #4

Comments from the Chateau about this man’s text game are interspersed in bold.

This is my first time writing you, so let me say thanks for putting out what I consider to be the most important site on the web for males. I am a natural beta and this site has had an incredible positive impact on my quality of life and happiness.

Anyway, an old girlfriend texted me out of the blue yesterday and the exchange is below. I don’t really want a relationship with her again, but I do hang out a lot in the town she currently lives in and wouldn’t mind keeping open the possibility for a late night rendezvous. My goal with this exchange was basically to ignite some gina tingles for a potential meetup in the future.

Quick Backround: We dated for about a year. She broke up with me about a year ago for some BS reason, but after discovering your site, I realized it was because I had become pathetically beta. She’s 23 now ( I’m 24) and works for a huge accounting firm in NYC. She was probably a solid 6-7 back when we dated, I attached a picture for reference (sorry I couldn’t find any nudes). [Ed: Accurate ranking. She’s a 6.] I’ve added any explanatory comments in italics.

Her (12:17 AM): I miss you

Me (7:03 AM): cant say I blame you

Her (9:01 AM): Do you miss me?

Me (11:32 AM): What do you miss most about me?

[Excellent deflection and reframe.]
(All of the below texts were sent within 15 minutes of the previous one)

Her: We had fun together

Me: Do you know what I miss most about you?

Her: What

Me: Big boobs (seriously, 34D @ 5’5’’ 125)

Her: If that’s the case then I guess that doesn’t say much about our relationship

Me: Just sayin they were nice. It’s a compliment. Anyway I recall you ended it

Her: I know. I was in the wrong.

Me: Is this your way of trying to get back together?

Her: No I am just telling you

[She’s lying. No girl contacts an ex out of the blue unless she wants to be with him again. Watch Swingers.]

Me: Its ok you don’t have to be coy about it

Her: LOL do you really expect me to randomly say after like a year  lets get back together

Me: Hey im not the one sending random I miss you texts

Her: OK then sorry I won’t say anything

Me: Don’t get upset. Anyway I meant what I said

Her: You meant what?

Me: That I miss your boobs. They were fun to play with

[The boob joke was funny at first, but now is overplayed. If you want to convert her to a fuckbuddy you have to, at some point, show a little attainability, which means curbing the cocky/funny act and assuaging her female sensibility. You run the risk here of overqualifying (out-assholing) yourself.]

Her: Great thanks

Me: What fun things do you miss most about us?

Her: Doesn’t matter

[No surprise that she is clamming up with regret. You could have jumped straight into comfort stage with her because your value was already sky high.]

Me: Hey don’t get upset. I wanna know what it was.

Her: We just had a great time together in my opinion

Me: Like what specifically? Im trying to remember

[This is a great asshole line, but might be counterproductive at this point.]

Her: Are you still in east Brunswick? (my hometown, moved back after college and am still here for now)

[Now she’s redirecting the conversation.]

Me: No actually I moved to california

Her: Really or are you joking

Me: Haha got me. Still in NJ. You never answered my question still.

[Good save to regain convo leadership.]

Her: Our trips. Relaxing. Movies. I moved to Hoboken (In NJ, Directly across the river from NYC. Known for its many bars and single young professionals)

Me: Its nice there. Easy to meet a lot of people. How do you like it?

Her: I love it

Me: I should tell you im getting married

Her: What?

Me: Yeah I should have mentioned it before

Her: Congrats

Me: Haha just joking. Cmon I thought you were sharper than that. Do you really think Id do that to myself?

Her: Why wouldn’t you what to get married? I do

Me: I don’t blame you. I just don’t think im marriage material. Its too hard to pick one person forever

Her: Maybe. But when you love someone you know I feel Just because you didin’t feel that way about me doesn’t mean you won’t (WTF??)

[Don’t sweat it. This seemingly disqualifying reply is just the female hamster spinning to death. She’s trying to trap you into chasing her.]

Me: What? That didn’t make sense

Her: Nevermind

Me: Haha ok. you must still be drunk from last night. So what do you do for fun in Hoboken?

Her: No I’m not. I’ve been working a lot and studying for my last part of the cpa. But I run and like the bars around

Me: Cool. Im sure you do work a lot. Are you partner yet? (I know it takes 15 yrs to make partner there)

Her: Soon. Another year

Me: Yeah you wish. For real do you know what the best way to get promoted is?

Her: Don’t even start. I’m sure you going to say something sex related

Me: Haha so you know its to sleep with your boss? Maybe you really will be partner in a year then…

Her: You’re def not the guy I used to know

[Normally, this admission would be a good thing, but since she contacted you first she already had it in her head that she wanted to fuck you again. Therefore, your cocky asshole act may be backfiring and driving her away.]

Me: That’s not true. Im still as ruggedly good looking and charming as ever

Her: K

[The banter was good, but went on for too long. Again, you likely overplayed your hand by revving your engine in the attraction phase without switching gears into a smooth cruise of genuine rapport. You needed to get real with her so she had the flimsy excuse she sought to rationalize sleeping with you again. And don’t focus so much on dating vs fucking and moving her into the FB zone. That will work itself out *after* you start banging. Keep your eyes on the prize.]

This is a decent representation of my text game and the type of attitude and banter I try to get over on the phone. I’d love to hear your comments about what I said, my frame, and overall alphaness from this. I think this is a good litmus test considering how this relationship ended and where I am now. Also, any suggestions from you as how to proceed from here would obviously be appreciated.

Thanks again,
“Anon”

Your overall alphaness was try-hard lesser alpha. You have lost sight of the sweeter brushstrokes of game in favor of the crowd-pleasing fireworks. Regulate yourself before you celibate yourself. In the future, if you talk to her again, make sure it is face-to-face, and keep your mouth shut. Her hamster will find a way into your pants. After that, manage the relationship in the direction you want it to go. To convert her to a fuckbuddy, this is easy: just refrain from talking to her or taking her out more than once per week, and never on the weekends.





Comments


  1. This is exactly why I don’t do text game. Don’t have the time to write that much text.

    Like


  2. thanks
    for reminding me
    how much women suck

    Like


  3. i hate the “forced rapport” of email #3. i have a co-worker who tries to pull that shit with me. it’s so annoying. he’s a real social guy, always organizing events and shit. you think he’d be better at being social.

    email 4 is kinda sad. presumably, you were close to this girl for a while. harsh.

    Like


  4. Regulate yourself before you celibate yourself.

    This needs to be turned into a hit rap single.

    Like


  5. great contrast in what to say and what not to say. examples always explain everything well.

    Like


  6. ABC=

    Always.
    Be.
    Closing.

    ALWAYS be CLOSING.

    AIDA=

    Attention. Do I have your attention?
    Interest. Are you interested? I hope you are because it’s fuck or walk! You close or you hit the bricks.
    Desicion. HAVE YOU MADE YOUR DECISION FOR CHRIST?
    Action.

    Best scene from Glengarry Glen Ross.

    Like


  7. @Eduard

    come on, don’t have time for texting? there are lots of good reasons not to text a girl, but not having enough time is not one of them.
    it takes less time than talking on the phone, its one of the least time intensive ways of communicating with a person.

    Like


  8. on September 15, 2010 at 1:19 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    lozzolzolzlzzlzzoo!

    text “lotsa cocka!” to a girl

    wait for her ????? Wtf????

    and then text her lzoozozlz sorry worng #!

    she’ll wanna touch your cocka

    Like


  9. the last of the text exchanges was absolutely cringe-worthy. i think the chateau went far too easy on him. he tried to cram FAR too much cockiness (and unfunniness, really) into far too long of an exchange.

    dude, its ok to be yourself. even mystery talks about the importance of congruity, and you fail that test miserably. sure, there’s a place for ‘fake it til you make it,’ but that exchange was embarrassing–she knew it, too–and you can be sure that it cost you any chance at reconciliation (and evening rendezvous). you’d be better off augmenting your existing personality with game, instead of trying to completely reinvent yourself as cocky and unfunny.

    Like


  10. on September 15, 2010 at 1:23 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    a girl texted me, “srry a’t make it this week i have 2 volunteer at the hospital and meet my oral surgeon husband.”

    i texted her:

    i volunteer 2 b ur oral surgeon.

    i ate her out from behind lzozlzozoz a week later lzozlzzl with the oral surgery preceision instrunent tongue which is as sharp as my cocka is well hung cause i like em young and don’t want no cougar dingleberry dung on my scholong becase it’s long but no butthex for me that is left up to tucker max whyes with goldman sax as sure as bernake rhymes with spank me lzozlzloz whic is why sodom and shucster the fed wires lotsa iat dollars to butthex heroes secrteove tapers of buuthhex without the girltsh conthent as the neocon goal is to desoul adn devauch women alongside he wucfrenyc as it gives jonagh goldberg power poer the cherubic faced honah goldberg shouting for others foto die in his ifat wars on foegiegn shores eating stuffing his fat face with dc pissa mamma boy chicp of theold block lzozlzozlz butthextopia!!!

    Like


  11. on September 15, 2010 at 1:24 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    lotsa cockasa!
    just say no to da neoconbutthextopia!

    Like


  12. These kinds of posts are consistently among the best on this site. More, please.

    Like


  13. The conversation in email #4 was badly bungled, but I did like the way he asked her questions. This puts the burden of conversation on her and lets her talk more.

    Like


  14. Text game plays a huge role in gaming a girl, despite how trivial and frivolous it seems. Can solidify a weak number close when done well, and can blow you out of a strong n-close when done poorly. Can often be the difference between banging and blow out.

    Like


  15. on September 15, 2010 at 1:51 pm The Rational Male

    1) 7 out of 10 chicks will agree to a threesome or at least entertain the idea in the beginning of a relationship. The kicker is that the vast majority of the time they have no intention of following through with it. She’s just trying to sink the hook deeper so she can reel you in. Most chicks will completely back pedal from this once you are actually in a relationship with them or when you try to push for it, whichever comes first.

    2) Nothing wrong with text game, but one of the most important things to remember is that you are communicating at a 7% capacity. This can work for you but it can also work against you. It looks like guys are trying to run the same kind of game without the benefit of vocal tone, facial expressions,body language, etc but it just doen’t work that way.

    Context > Content

    Like


  16. excellent analysis throughout. Right on the money.

    Its Shark Week……..THUD!!!

    Like


  17. The Specimen

    Regulate yourself before you celibate yourself.

    This needs to be turned into a hit rap single.

    doesn’t everything?

    Like


  18. Witty banter is fun and attraction building, but it’s a lot of work and hard to come up with things to say. I like it for a short time and then I would rather talk about something else.

    Like


  19. greatbooksformen GBFM

    lotsa cockasa!
    just say no to da neoconbutthextopia!

    this is yet another prime example of why your talented skill is as fresh and current as that Ashely Judd. its like having Wynonna Ryder post

    Like


  20. Email 4 was instructive. I have trouble judging when to tone down the cockiness and shift to comfort building. Stay cocky for too long and she thinks you’re actually an asshole; move to rapport too soon and it feels forced or turns into a desexualized, LJBF conversation.

    Any rules of thumb?

    Like


  21. Laura

    Witty banter is fun and attraction building, but it’s a lot of work and hard to come up with things to say. I like it for a short time and then I would rather talk about something else.

    so, you like it when Mr. Witt blurts out “let’s cut the movie bullshit and fuck?”

    Like


  22. #1 – Textbook overgaming – too much try-hard witty banter and buying into her frame. Cut the thread while the her emotional state at her peak. “Hitting the gym, take care” and wait for her to initiate.

    #2 – Nothing more cringeworthy than forced rapport. She’s not into you.

    #3 – Non-sequitur game worked because she was already invested in him. The ball was in his court, it was his to fuck up by blabbing too much. He didn’t. Well played.

    #4 – Sounds like an uncalibrated try-hard beta who just discovered David D’Angelo. She’s DTF, lay off the C F.

    IMO the examples above illustrate texting hurts more than it helps most guys.

    #1 is preciptiously close to losing her attraction by overgaming, #2 was a lost cause and #4 just fucked it up by trying too hard. #3 did well but it wasn’t his texting that sealed the deal.

    It’s too easy to bungle text game without the nuances of tonality, facial expressions, body language etc. Unless your game is finely honed, even well-meaning texts can be misinterpreted and backfire. There’s too much margin for error and women seldom give you the benefit of the doubt.

    Like


  23. crowd-pleasing fireworks is apt.

    these are very valuable posts, stripping down game to its bare essentials and knowing what your motivations are is key.

    game is not being a constant entertainer.

    Like


  24. Two basic things about text game for men:

    (i) keep it short;

    (ii) finish while she’s still wanting more.

    The stories behind the texts here are the icing on the cake. A really good mix.

    Email 1 – nice kids.
    Email 3 – a post on gaming very dumb girls would be interesting.
    Email 4 – she wants him back.

    Like


  25. That would be way too forward, although it might work with someone you already know. I’m thinking that maybe after a few minutes of witty banter, you end it. Let there be an uncomfortable lull in the conversation and then you redirect it to something neutral that doesn’t have much to do with either one of you. It could every be something arbitrary about the song that’s playing, anything like that. I don’t think it desexualizes the conversation as much as makes her feel a little more comfortable.

    Like


  26. “Regulate yourself before you celibate yourself.”

    Lol. Good breakdown here. There needs to be like a Chateau text game Android & iPhone app to help us out….

    Like


  27. i can’t understand men like the one who had a girl refuse to get off the phone when he sat at the table. i could not put up with that much unpleasant bullshit just for a chance at a wet hole. if she consistently acts like a bitchy 15-year-old girl, no thanks. i’ll take a cold shower and go without.

    Like


  28. @luvsic
    “game is not being a constant entertainer.”

    So true. Always err on the side of saying too little rather than too much. Let her feel uncomfortable and struggle to keep the conversation going. She isn’t some queen who gets to be entertained all the time.

    Like


  29. Laura

    That would be way too forward, although it might work with someone you already know.

    thats kind of slutty,
    but to be fair
    I know lots of sluts

    Like


  30. Great stuff. I would only disagree with this:

    “She’s lying. No girl contacts an ex out of the blue unless she wants to be with him again. Watch Swingers.”

    Girls will contact exes out of the blue for all kinds of reasons, usually related to the fact that the ex has gone completely no contact on her. It doesn’t always mean she wants to be with him again. It can also mean she simply feels guilty and wants to make sure he is a “friend,” or that she is incredulous that he didn’t try to get her back after a dumping. Women with little to no romantic interest in an ex will still try to keep him in her life for two reasons: 1. Clear conscience after having dumped him, 2. ego boost/one more male friend orbiter.

    Like


  31. “Regulate yourself before you celibate yourself.”

    Yeah, #4 turned a booty call into train wreck right after the awesome boobies comment. R is right, you already had her hooked; tingles were already present.

    We’ve seen the try-hard alpha game lead to this dead end before “Don’t even start. I’m sure you going to say something sex related.” You went so far overboard, you went from fond memory to “I regret calling that guy and am thankful I left him.”

    Plus, as Roosh points out, game doesn’t work work on 6’s, they’re already fragile and asshole game may lead to looking elsewhere. Likewise, how many j/k’s can a guy pull off without causing irritation?

    Incidentally, I would think you should wait until next evening to respond to get a meet up without excessive chit chat; constant day texting killed ya, I thought you were recounting an actual conversation.

    What would be a better reply to “Her: If that’s the case then I guess that doesn’t say much about our relationship”?

    Greater beta reply, “damn, shug, there’s plenty of fish.”

    “God made boobies so men would talk to women, just sayin…”

    alpha ? “does that mean you got skinny?”

    Like


  32. […] ghostwriters who have been plaguing the site recently – did another post on text game, where he reprints text conversations with women that his readers have submitted and then analyzes […]

    Like


  33. chateau dawgs, what’s this chick’s story? here’s a clip of christine o’donnell, the gop’s delaware candidate for senate, campaigning against masturbation on MTV in the 90’s. she’s good looking — any insights on what would motivate a girl of her stripe to be so kooky? i can’t glean much from her body language

    Like


  34. on September 15, 2010 at 3:31 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    lozzlzozlozlzozlzlzlzozozl

    neocon butthextopia !!!

    Like


  35. Agreed, Spade.

    #4 bothered me. #1 and #3 scenarios have been seen on here before (forced rapport, etc.), but #4 went from having a guaranteed lay to his ex thinking he’s a creep. Too much gaming, not enough flashing the side of him that she liked. Even if that side is something you’ve abandoned since, dangle it in front of her to lure her back. After you’re done with her you can let me facade drop.

    Like


  36. *the*

    Like


  37. Wasn’t sure on which slope the chateau was located for contact purposes so I’m posting here. I was reading an article on How Female Suffrage Destroyed Western Civilization and there was an ad there linking to: http://www.catchhimandkeephim.com

    The contents of that website might be seed stock for an article highlighting countermeasures (if any) thwarting mens attempts at securing crotch locks.

    If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

    Like


  38. on September 15, 2010 at 3:54 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    LOZZLOZLZOLZOLZZLOLZLZLZLZLZ!!!

    I AM GETTIG FAMOUSER AND FAMOUSER ON PAJAMAS MEDIA LZOZLZZOZOZOZOZOLZZOZOZOLZLZOZOLZ ZBUTHTHTHTHTHTHTHEXUYXYXYXHJXHXHXHXHX!!! BUTHTHETHXXX!!!!!

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/dreams-from-his-father-obama-as-petulant-anticolonialist/

    Clearly, The Shadow has been studying and attempting to master (not quite there yet) the methods of greatness that propel the internet sensation known as GreatBooksForMen, who states in no uncertain terms:

    “omg social media is so coooooool!!!! twitter, myspace, and facebook are all loesing money but lzozlzl that is what socialist media is desighned to d0–commodify teh indvidual and augment debt lozzlzl as mark zuckerberg gets lottsa valuations! ben bernake was time magazine’s pesron of teh year because he has creathed more debt then any man ever. and neocon charlotte allen exalted tucker max’s fiat PR lies about his height and succeth in teh pages of the weekly standard because to the noecons sectrive taphings of butthex wihtout teh girlh;s conthent like tucker publishes and profits off of = god & good lzozlzzlzlzllolzllll!!!!”

    T.S.

    Yeah, probably should have included one of these: 😉

    And probably should have linked to GreatBooksForMen:

    http://greatbooksformen.wordpress.com

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/dreams-from-his-father-obama-as-petulant-anticolonialist/

    lozzozlozozlzlzz

    last night i had a dream of ourbutthextopia, with tucker max and be bernake wering purple robes in the offies fo goldamn sax as they corronated jonah goldberg chubby jonah goldberg only in my dream joan goldberg was played by jack black lozlzozlzlolzozolzlzlzlz

    http://wonkette.com/407743/jonah-goldberg-in-trooooooouble-for-loving-obama

    lzozoozlzlzlzozzlllozlzozomglzoozozlzlzlzomglzozlzolzl

    Like


  39. one of the best advices. btw can you make like a best of? you have alot of game related posts that deserve to be put in its own section like “Game Treasure Chest”.

    I agree that turning a women into a FB will work itself out if the guy does not take her out on fancy dates, doesnt talk much to her and doesnt see her in the weekends (Except sunday)

    I also agree that if a women has ALREADY chosen a man, the best thing he can do to his game is to SHUT HIS MOUTH (so as not to say something that would blow it up) and let her hamster fill in the blanks and focus on getting the logistics right.

    Like


  40. @sdaedalus
    “””Two basic things about text game for men:

    (i) keep it short;

    (ii) finish while she’s still wanting more””””

    I was just thinking the same for women. Wonder what would happen if they are playing the same game?

    Like


  41. what,
    We can get away with talking too much. I don’t think men usually hold it against us, although they probably will ignore much of what you say.

    Like


  42. why talk so much?

    Like


  43. on September 15, 2010 at 4:17 pm gunslingergregi

    ”””’what
    @sdaedalus
    “””Two basic things about text game for men:

    (i) keep it short;

    (ii) finish while she’s still wanting more””””

    I was just thinking the same for women. Wonder what would happen if they are playing the same game?

    ””””

    Nothing as it was meant to be.

    he he he

    Like


  44. @gunslingergregi
    ”””’what
    @sdaedalus
    “””Two basic things about text game for men:

    (i) keep it short;

    (ii) finish while she’s still wanting more””””

    I was just thinking the same for women. Wonder what would happen if they are playing the same game?

    ””””

    “”Nothing as it was meant to be.

    he he he””

    deadlock!! hahaha!!

    Like


  45. on September 15, 2010 at 4:21 pm gunslingergregi

    The point is that you really don’t care which really puts the chick you are dealing with in a lower position when you are actually already getting your balls drained.

    It gives you a lot of power as a man to be allready hitting daily when at the same time having a good time gaming chicks.

    You do what the fuck you want take chances throw shit out there not give a fuck and outcome doesn’t matter.

    Just enjoy the show or enjoy creating the show.

    So you can just relax.

    Fishing muthafuckas.

    Like


  46. “augmenting your existing personality with game”

    Very good advice for most men.

    Like


  47. on September 15, 2010 at 4:23 pm gunslingergregi

    Well yea but if the chick knows about you anyway and doesn’t put forth effort then not meant to be.

    The point being there are more chicks.

    Like


  48. @Gunny

    more like stalemate(s)

    unbroken short texts from a woman are a bit like faux-lesbian game

    you have to be an 11 to get away with it

    if a woman wants to shake the frame a little without actually demolishing it I would recommend going for a mix of short & long texts in one conversation

    but really the trick is to kill the conversation just when he’s getting interested.

    goodnight

    Like


  49. on September 15, 2010 at 4:26 pm gunslingergregi

    Although I suppose you could make female friends with no intention of sleeping with them to just use them for their other talents.

    Never thought of that he he he

    Like


  50. on September 15, 2010 at 4:26 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    NSFW !!!

    this is the road all the ocuagrs cougars live on so if you want your cocka to touch cougar dingleberry twisted matts of pubic butthexed berankifed womenz buttpubes go here do not passs go do not ocllect [email protected] just go here driectly lzozlzl:

    Like


  51. If I am temporarily amazed that a woman’s interest in a man can dramatically rise or fall by a single sentence that a man uses, I have to remind myself that women do not men.

    How can one not believe that men are not better than women?

    The stupidity from a woman that a man must deal with in order to get laid is absurd. Fortunately as you age the sex drive drops and you don’t feel the need to waste so much precious time with worthless bantering to get sex.

    Like


  52. on September 15, 2010 at 4:36 pm gunslingergregi

    ””’“”Nothing as it was meant to be.

    he he he””

    deadlock!! hahaha!!
    ”””””

    Well no not really because that would assume men and woman are equal.

    I can get equal joy from fucking a hooker a I can from picking up a chick.

    So after the deadlock I can go fuck a hooker.

    After the deadlock the chick can only pine for what could have been.

    Like


  53. “He’s on the right track by telling her to pick out the girls she would want to include in a threesome, but his tone is too glib, when he should be affecting a pose of laconic pimpery.”

    You should drop in more often.

    Like


  54. # 2 is so good I almost don’t believe it. “So, did you want to get a hotel?” Epic.

    # 4 lost sight of the prize. I mean really, in that exchange she was his to do with whatever he wanted, but instead he continually insulted her until she backed off completely. I don’t know what the point of that was unless there is a revenge motive, conscious or not. But if he’s at all still attracted to her, and I assume he is since she was the dumper, better to clinch the sexual encounter before returning the dumping favor if that was his intent. Some good lines at first but ultimately the hidden anger came through.

    Like


  55. on September 15, 2010 at 4:39 pm gunslingergregi

    Well ok sometimes there are extenuating circumstances but the guy definetly maintains more state by not giving in to the onitis.

    Fuck other chicks have onitis for another 100.

    Like


  56. on September 15, 2010 at 4:43 pm gunslingergregi

    ”””””The stupidity from a woman that a man must deal with in order to get laid is absurd. Fortunately as you age the sex drive drops and you don’t feel the need to waste so much precious time with worthless bantering to get sex.”””””

    In real life?

    No No No

    real life it is not so hard to get laid.

    It is much harder to get internet laid lol

    Like


  57. on September 15, 2010 at 4:43 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

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    lzozlzloozlz

    eveyr greta journey statrst with a small step just like very neonc buthex sessions starts with a small bit of lube and then comes the secrteiv taping of buthex and then the repating of th e butthexual heroes lies in the weekly stadnadtdh about his heiaght and hundreds f hosunads of barenkae doallrs for the dnoecn publisheing homes for a scertive taping of btthex jhob wel done lzozozz and den cmes the deosuled women and then cuks jonah goldberg scremaing fro more preepemtive wars and jonah goldebrerg screamin that somwne tae men now that the neoncs havebutthex the womenand deosuled them they are patrt of the noeocn army to be sent formth to convert fiat bernae debt into physical welath and property while others die in their foreign shres in foeighn wars os that jonahcgoldberg can contintue stuffing hisfat fce with dc pizza yum yum as hs mom said so lzozlzozozlzl ad th it must and sjall bee tee heehe ehehehelzozlzlzlzl buthextopisa wemnz tame men lzozlzl

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    47. great books for men GBFM

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    greatbooksformen.wordpress.com/2010/06/07/how-da-university-works-feminism-debt-debauchery-divorce-desecration-machinearmy-lzozlzlzlzlzl/

    i think i misspeleed quote above as ote but my spellechek i turned it off as it was making the screen all red with squiggly ines under all the ords fuck that shit lzozolzolzozozozozlzozlz

    Like


  58. on September 15, 2010 at 4:46 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    OOOPSSS!!!! here is da link to my pahj pajamsas media debut!!!!!!

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/dreams-from-his-father-obama-as-petulant-anticolonialist/#comment-636589

    this is kinda like the begining of somehting good and my rise to power in da neocn butthextopia lzozlzlzlz of ifat debt lzozozl

    THE FED cretaed the deomcratic party to grwo the welfare state and the ocnservtive republicans to grow da warfare state but then bernake discovered that the democrats are just as hppay growing the warfare sta and th rpeublineocons are just as happy growing te efare state athe great thing about the neocon–liberal or contherative– is that as long as they are butthexing the commonman and is fture wife ad taping it secrtely, they are happy. ozlzozlzozllzz

    Like


  59. the reason the last guy crashed and burned is he turned into a dancing monkey. i was really annoyed, and can imagine the ex mustve been put on ice with that utterly weak birthday-party clown shtick.

    Like


  60. on September 15, 2010 at 4:54 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    LOZOZOZZOL some search temrs for my blog: Yesterday
    Search Views
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    BOLSHEVIK PUA!!!!! LZOZLOZLZLZ

    WTF?????

    i gues a neoocns are needing to up their game to get sum now dat dabernake dollar is collapsing and don’t buy thda pussy it once did lzozlzlzlz

    Like


  61. me: lol. what’s your week looking like, we need to have our second date.

    her: it’s shark week this week.

    egads, “we need to have out second date…” we do?

    It’s Sharkweek should be the female version of “Bring the movies.” She gets a high-five for perfect female blow off game.

    It hurts but it’s kinda funny.

    Seriously though, I don’t think text game is going to get you a date #2 if you failed.

    Like


  62. The Chateau advice to texter #4, particularly the black editor stuff he interjected into the text stream back and forth, was money. It’s good to see him giving very specific too much assholery advice. A little bit in the beginning with her was fine, but then it should have been comfort building.

    Re: texter #3, it was a bad idea to kiss her some more in the car driving her to her place, when she wasn’t that into it. She should really want the kiss or don’t do it. It’s chasing her otherwise.

    Of course just bringing her back to your place to hang with your roomies before you’ve banged her was the first bad idea. Raises anti slut defenses big time, and tends to kill the atmosphere. You’d have done better letting her go home and get some sleep after you kissed her outside the bar.

    Like


  63. These text submissions illustrate a continuing abundance of self-inflated DHV FAIL. Can we learn to differentiate:

    i live every week like it’s shark week.

    and

    That’s not true. Im still as ruggedly good looking and charming as ever.

    from remembering you aren’t out to impress, you’re out to qualify them:

    GIRL: I think in a seduction it’s the man who’s supposed to impress the woman.

    ME: This is what most men think, but it’s not true. A good seduction surprises you. Next, I ask you questions that show I’m a discriminating man who wants more than just looks in a woman. Looks are overrated. So for instance, I will now ask you if you have more than 20 pairs of shoes.

    responding to compliments:

    [GIRL] i’m really falling for you!

    [ME] don’t get pregnant.

    and DHV’ing, imply it, don’t state it:

    “You’re very brave to come over to talk with me.”

    Like


  64. FWIW i dont think those studies are taking into account that a woman like that is more likely to marry whoever finally asks her to or who she can convince to, not someone shes really committed to. or in the alternative, she likely tries to marry the man shes cohabiting with to save a dying LTR, so it was destined to fail.

    Like


  65. #4 is a dope, you’ve banged her in the past, she clearly wants on, it takes a max of like 3 texts to set something up.

    All the passive aggressiveness directed towards her is a direct result of bitter animosity over the breakup, and all it’ll get you is a reminder to her of why she dumped you in the first place.

    Like


  66. I wonder if there is going to be a day in the future where he comes clean that he made up the email queries from readers in order to better illustrate a point of game such as in this post. Like the writer of some religious text who fabricates a parable in order to elucidate some hidden lesson. I think it would be really interesting and add a new level to the Chateau if the queries from readers that form the launching point for these game lessons were actually fabricated by himself. The lessons would still be as powerful and true.

    I remember when Stephen Glass wrote those hilarious and fraudulent articles for the New Republic back in the 1990’s there was one that finally made me say “he is making this shit up”. I get that feeling from alot of the email he gets that is just too perfect as a springboard for a game lesson. Today’s post gave me that feeling again as Email #2 is such impeccably executed text game, that I can’t help but think this is an invented exchange as it sticks so well to his principles (and led to such coveted results).

    Don’t mistake me for accusing him of lying – I think he might be fabricating fiction in the service of a higher truth – a lie no more than “Moby Dick” is a lie.

    Like


  67. on September 15, 2010 at 6:23 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    “dana

    FWIW i dont think those studies are taking into account that a woman like that is more likely to marry whoever finally asks her to or who she can convince to, not someone shes really committed to. or in the alternative, she likely tries to marry the man shes cohabiting with to save a dying LTR, so it was destined to fail.”

    yah i have 2 agree with dana

    todays womenz fuck and suck aand fuck and suck when they are young hot and tight and then they just marry some poor sucker who settles for he when she is all loosely goosey t thirty so she can divocre his ass and give his assetts to beranke lzozzlolzlzlzlzolzozzozooz and with o fault divroce teh fed beranke promises that she can take the betachump money and go back to fucking and sucking drummers druggies asscoekrs anything dat makers her ass or gina tingle as we are in a world ruled by ginatingels which is why obamma is president lzozzllozlozozlzl

    Like


  68. on September 15, 2010 at 4:33 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    lozozlzozlzzlozlz butthextopia !!!

    hey ch you are my morpheus mentor lzozlzlzolzl my yoda but not my trinity as i don’t butthex like da noeocns lzozlzlzlz not that there is anything wrong with that but i don’t put my ocka in da ch butthole i mean i like you but not in that way and i dounbt that ch would let me do that even if i aksed really nicely and promised him an inrveiw i n the weely standadth form michalell malkin zkzkzikz

    i hope i make you proud:

    UCSB Conservatives Are Whiny Feminists
    u

    http://dzheng.freeshell.org/?e=56

    “GBFM you’re hilarious lzlozllzolzolzolozlzz”

    “fellas

    friend s romans and countrymen, lend me your ears.

    the way ebernankified womenz work is like this:

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    they then create legislation transferring welath from the good men to make up for all the assckokcing asshole fucking sessions where tehy a=got fucked hard and now h8 men.

    so they get asshole sperm and they get the betas to fund it zlzolzozlzlzozlzlzzo

    a more civil society would not force otehr men to pay for asshole spwan.

    but when women run things they wire lotsa fiat cash to secrteivetapers of sodomy without the girlths content lzozlzlzozlzlzozl and they call this moral ad good for teh gretaer beneift of society lzozlzl as teh fed gets a cut.

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    07-09-’10 09:26

    http://greatbooksformen.wordpress.com/20..

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    07-09-’10 09:28

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    gbfm lzozlzl

    Like


  69. ” txting is playing by a girl’s rules. It is inescapably betatizing.”

    That was gold.

    All txt game is pre-fail.

    You use txt to speed meeting up to fuck…not as follow-up. Its a more efficient way of saying: hi, lets meet here, ### main st.

    Only proven txt game is “who is this” or hail mary xtx after u deleted her #, for being lame.

    Baiting via txt: “Have tix to red-carpet party” or “back stage pass” is one exception, but she must be supervised or give BJ or massive + at pre-drinks.

    -1st email: way too long txting; “come over with soup” has brought pussy to me in this context 10x

    -2nd email: BS, russian chicks dont fall for that shit, Moldovan maybe

    -3rd: he is a rookie 8.5, 22 = 10 in reality

    -4th: He should have said come over now.

    NYC Big $ accounting babes blow Partners; living in Hoboken = “i get banged a lot, but dumped alot” its a shit hole…no one with a straight face admits living there esp. WOMEN; NOTE she panics on “Living in CA” comment …as she knows that pussy heaven. MOVE.

    Like


  70. per the post above, here’s the money quote, gotta love that sense of entitlement:

    “Wait — you say she supposedly “asked for it” because she was wearing tight jeans, or because we’ve since learned she has modeled bikinis in the past? Right. Go try that argument in any court in America. Then get ready to write a check.”

    Like


  71. This in the news today: ultimate loser texts (this is actually worth reading)

    http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/9000/21370422/Wis_prosecutor_Texts_to_abuse_victim_a_lapse

    Like


  72. Reading these text message exchanges is like knee surgery without anesthesia.

    Shoot a couple of texts if you have to then get that broad on the horn.

    Then close.

    – MPM

    Like


  73. Text game is brilliant when used judiciously. Unfortunately many guys treat it as a Letterman interview and feel compelled to spew lines and lines of monologue to demonstrate their wit. Short, sweet & a little bit dirty is the key.
    I sort of disagree with CR’s take on punctuation and laconic language. I always use meticulous spelling and punctuation in texts which make it easier to project different moods. A sharp text on Friday night when a girl *thinks* you’ve had a few drinks works wonders.
    Also pay close attention to her vocabulary and style. You need to know if texts are actually coming from her bestie while your girl is in the can.

    Like


  74. i love that email #3 calls the girl extremely dumb. then:

    me: lol. what’s your week looking like, we need to have our second date.

    her: it’s shark week this week.

    hah.

    Like


  75. on September 15, 2010 at 8:02 pm gunslingergregi

    I’m the great white bitch.

    Psyche but seriously.

    Lets go catch a shark then.

    Like


  76. on September 15, 2010 at 8:03 pm Chad Buffington

    CR, what’s your take on this kiss? This dude is a celebrated musician at the prime of his career, but his chick instinctively recoils when he smooches her on the stage:

    [Editor: I love Arcade Fire. Yeah, that kiss looks bad for him. Waddaya expect? They’re married. The romance is dead. She’s probably pissed that he interrupted her during her song. And considering that fanboys think the songs where she sings are inferior to his songs, she needs all the concentration she can muster to prove everyone wrong.]

    Like


  77. on September 15, 2010 at 8:06 pm gunslingergregi

    G manifesto is on it game is not about being a womans orbitor where she is the only one you are orbiting. Sure you can orbit some chicks for fun but if that is all you are doing it is (da) game. You need to be closing other woman as well. Got to have more than one level of game going or woman will eat you alive.

    Like


  78. conversational texting = honest indicator of beta fear

    Can you imagine any alpha on the planet vomiting out the shit from those examples? Go back and read Comacho’s text game. Or imagine the text game of the mexican drug runners who where banging miss universe sending her this:

    “me: lol. what’s your week looking like, we need to have our second date.”

    texting is like investing in penny stocks. If you call them all a scam and never, ever invest in one, you will be right 99.99% of the time.

    typing “bring the movies” caused great irritation to comacho for how much of his day it wasted. That is the frame.

    Like


  79. Genius text game from Krauser. This guy is ripping up Europe and actually has pics and video to prove it.

    [Editor: Rivelino, that’s actually chat game he’s running, which is a different beast than text game. But yeah, it is excellent.]

    Like


  80. on September 15, 2010 at 8:23 pm Chad Buffington

    Thank you for cleaning up my drunk post.

    Like


  81. Text game can be a devlish trap. You must txt because that’s just how people talk now. But never “want” to txt. U know? Txting is to communicate, bring the movies style. To me this falls to inner game. Everything does. When u don’t give a fuck, u never over game regardless of method of gaming.

    Like


  82. e-mail #3 about shark week is familiar, I have read that text exchange before. If not here than on Roosh or something like that.

    Like


  83. Advice is all gold, but:

    #1: RC

    You need to get used to this concept: Texting is here to stay. Women can retreat behind it and if you refuse to play, you’re boned (or not).

    In Korea for business; Trends here usually hit the US later. Given cellphone rates and female nature, texting will only get bigger. Here, all communication is done by text. Flirting by text is everything.

    You’re slowly adapting and admitting that text is where men will have to focus attention: I hate it too, given how easily it slips into women’s modes of communication, but there’s no way around it.

    #4

    You went way too easy on #4. I’m surprised at you. He used the wrong tone throughout and misplayed it continuously. Almost nothing was done well, from the start.

    Too hard and heavy, clumsy like a brute fist. He wasn’t brusque enough when he should have been, wasn’t dismissive enough, had a golden apple laying at his feet and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Unnecessary asshole game. His whole frame was textbook rather than tailored for the girl.

    He has experience with her. He can tailor it. He needs to link it to their shared experience somehow, make it seem like he’s doing her a favor. Instead, he came off as an unknown asshole.

    Proper tone: Dismissive but familiar.

    #2:

    Textbook and even better than textbook. Expertly played. Should be listed as a perfect example of how to play the art.

    #3:

    Sounds flaky.

    After a bad date, there’s virtually nothing you can do but ignore. Anything else seems to catch-up. She needs to think you had a worse time than she did.

    #3:

    Like


  84. “e-mail #3 about shark week is familiar, I have read that text exchange before.”

    “Live every week like it’s shark week” is a Tracy Morgan slogan on 30 rock, so it wasn’t even an original line. If she had heard the line before it made it doubly lame.

    Like


  85. Off-topic, but check these before / after pics. Anglo girls b/4 marriage and after marriage ~ 50lbs difference.

    http://cavemanforum.com/miscellaneous/i-blame-corn-sugar/

    Like


  86. Chad,
    I didn’t really think she recoiled from the kiss as much as she was being playful. She seemed to like it. Musicians at the top of their game probably don’t have to worry too much about appearing “alpha” anyway. I’ve never heard of that group, but I liked the song.

    Like


  87. Before and After Images

    Holy crap. WTH went wrong.

    Marriage in these cases = Disaster.

    Like


  88. “This dude is a celebrated musician at the prime of his career, but his chick instinctively recoils when he smooches her on the stage:”

    the asexual music probably doesn’t help

    Like


  89. It’s high time the Chateau did a clinic on gaming into a threesome. Taking requests?

    Like


  90. I thought the song was very pretty, but it wasn’t a song for getting in the mood. Plus they are married.

    Like


  91. based on their music, i suspect Arcade Fire sold their souls to god.

    Like


  92. “Russian love butter”. That’s fucking gold.

    Like


  93. There is a huge gulf between text game and email game.

    Email game is about the email itself, creating something that will be a pleasure to read and reflect on, while subtly advancing the ongoing conversation in directions you want it to go. Text game is about connecting in real-time and requires much more awareness and quickness.

    I’ve just spent 2 hours pingponging about 20 emails back and forth with a female friend, most of which were short ones in between some longer exchanges. Even 2 or 3 minutes to craft a response is an eternity compared with the quickness of texting.

    If I were texting rather than emailing, my goal would be to make the girl unable to forget that she was waiting for a response from me, and yet make each eagerly anticipated response surprising in some way. Deadly to say exactly what is expected, except at the very close. The content would be almost irrelevant.

    The other way to handle texting is to initiate it with a more serious message, like a full sentence asking a question about her opinion on something, and then control the pace, making the successive responses shorter and quicker or longer and slower depending on which seems to engage her attention more, or push-pulling by alternating short and long responses, but while imposing a direction on the conversation. This only works if you can be very precise with words, saying something that is misinterpreted derails everything, unless you intended a multiple meaning (highly recommended fun to put those in).

    Like


  94. on September 15, 2010 at 9:53 pm gunslingergregi

    Dam on the before and afters.

    That is just sad.

    Like


  95. Yeah, I thought I saw that shark week text string before. It was in a Roosh forum.

    Like


  96. on September 15, 2010 at 10:50 pm gunslingergregi

    ”’I’m the great white bitch.”””

    This may have been freudian or something.

    Trying to bring myself down a notch and nobody helped he he he

    I love you guys 🙂

    Like


  97. wow, that is a really high-quality comment from polymath. one might disregard that the number of women he has brought to climax in the past 25 years is its own square root. SRSLY

    Like


  98. OR IS IT….

    Like


  99. on September 15, 2010 at 11:25 pm Prophet Jeremiah your Daddy

    I love GBFM but “its like having Wynonna Ryder to post” is funny.

    GBFM you should expand to international affairs. how butthex is viewed in other cultures?

    also, there is a new publication on text game called B4UTXTHER hahaha and they want hundreds of fiat dollars for it, it’s very lame.

    Like


  100. Update:

    I’m the dude from email #3 (forced rapport, shark week rejection).

    This transpired about 6 weeks ago. After the shark week rejection i let thing sit for about 3 days, and hit her with a non-sequit “sounds tempting but busy, maybe friday”.

    she texts back within 30 seconds: “what sounds tempting?”
    I wait 3 hours: “wrong person. my bad.”
    No response, then I text 48 hours later: meet me at [bar]. 8pm. wear heels.

    she wears heels. eventually i end up finger banging her in a parking lot. could have fucked but the logistics were beyond salvageable. we hung out again but my game was not tight and I ultimately failed to get the bang.

    The whole sad tale was discussed and dissected thoroughly on Roosh’s forum if anyone is interested in examples of what worked and what didn’t.

    http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-2453.html

    Otherwise thanks for the comments, you were spot on.

    Like


  101. Good Lord, that sad thing reminds me of Remington Steele
    http://fisherwy.blogspot.com/2008/01/keely-shaye-smith-is-pierce-brosnan.html
    and then there’s this nugget of correcting self delusion:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8002283/Men-look-at-bodies-not-faces-when-picking-date.html
    more Brooke Burke, less Delta Burke.

    Like


  102. on September 15, 2010 at 11:43 pm (R)Evolutionary

    That last example, #4, was excellently ciphered by Maestro CR; the calibration was sorely lacking. Made this mistake myself a few times when first learning the crimson arts; calibration is all.

    Gorby, your repartee is usually spot-on, but I think your time abroad with non-American girls may be warping how well you grok the current US feminine zeitgeist.

    MPM’s comment is spot-on with the pith on gettting the job done efficiently. Acerbic is best, as it reinforces detatchment.

    Game on, gamesmen.

    Like


  103. regarding Ines Sainz, I thought the central joke of hispanic tv was that the girls were culturally approved T&A. Her complaints are a joke, considering that south of the border she’s probably taken as seriously as boxing ringside girls.

    As far as I care to read into them, the football players flirted with her.

    Like


  104. Great post. Thank you.

    Like


  105. wow, that is a really high-quality comment from polymath. one might disregard that the number of women he has brought to climax in the past 25 years is its own square root. SRSLY

    180.

    Like


  106. before and after ouchville

    Like


  107. I wish I’d read this post a few years ago. My lack of text game lost me a lot of opportunities. The G Manifesto is probably right about minimizing the number of texts: my exchanges always went on too long.

    But about the threesome thing – unless you’re a super-alpha, or your lady is cool with bringing hookers into the mix, it’s not going to happen.

    Mixed blessing, even when it does. The one man I knew who did it, hired a hot whore-lady with his wife on a trip to Amsterdam. Told the whole country about it, even though he had to pay. Trouble was, it gave his wife a taste for adultery, and she left him soon afterwards (for a man though).

    Like


  108. By the way, “shark week” is another one of those cutey women expressions for “monthly bleed-out”.

    In other words, she was telling you she was ragging. It was a rejection.

    Like


  109. CH, in russian you say “privet” when you meet people at the beginning. Its awkward and clumsy to place it in the end of text.

    At the end or when you go away the shortest thing you can say is “paka” It roughly translates as “for now” or “till [later]” where “later” is not said but assumed. English equivalent for “see ya”” A more alfa way that leaves more insecurity about next meeting (but is so informal that becomes unsuiable for writing) is to say “nu davai ” that equals “ok then” in english. It is also so informal that is going to cause a great smile in every russian girls face and make her wonder where did you learn such a slang, definately not from books, maybe from another russian cutie in past?

    Also texting is the worst type of communication ever. Short of Morse code.
    1.It takes long time
    2.It is tedious
    3.No body language cold reading possible
    4.No physical contact possible.
    5.It costs money if over phone
    6.Your hands are busy

    I have a codex not to send more than two massages to a girl per day. If she texts I reply that we can meet and discuss whatever she wants to say in a laconic “bring the movies” style. (Tough I was never THAT short, this phrase is unbeatable!) Works like a charm. I do not use chats and skype and any type of online communication at all. It is against my codex to have cybersex only real fleshy sex permitted.

    Like


  110. I was wondering what “shark week” was.

    Like


  111. It’s a stupid expression.

    Like


  112. I don’t think it’s a stupid expression. There’s blood, more than normal amounts of mean, and bingeing.

    Thinking on the original post though, and having the experience of being classed as “fuck buddy” despite my desire to be otherwise, back when I was a bitch, I can confirm that it is very easy to overqualify yourself.

    A guy should remember that no matter how busted he thinks a girl is, there are other guys who want to fuck her, and probably won’t make her feel as bad about herself for doing it.

    Most of them are doing it at least under the pretense of a desire to be some sort of boyfriend. Except for a few extremely delusional or sociopathic women, most girls want to be someone’s girlfriend, not their fuckbuddy or “fallback 5”. So if you give a girl the idea that she has no chance to be anything more than a hole to you, her feminist programming is going to make her say, “It’s all good,” but her hamster has gone off the wheel and is gnawing on her ego.

    When the benefits of being your friend cease, you cease to be a friend with benefits.

    So if you want to keep her around, you have to keep it from becoming either weird or humiliating. Women like to submit to dominance, but hate the idea that they’ve submitted to someone who isn’t interested in dominating them.

    When I promoted my friends, what kept things from ending badly was that they were still my friend when the sex was over. We still had fun together. They didn’t reject me as a person. It was “bros before hoes” even if the “hoe” was me. They didn’t suddenly bolt, disappear, or do anything to make me think I’d made a huge mistake and shagged a penis equipped girl who played social games.

    I understand that I was under feminist influence during that phase of my life, so it wasn’t exactly an ideal thing to do, but it wasn’t really a very harmful thing to do because the guys I was dealing with were on the level. Well, for the most part.

    The one time it got weird and awkward, I was heartbroken, not because I had really romantic ideas about the guy, but because he stopped being my friend. He was interested in another girl, and pushed me aside totally rather than just sexually.

    He learned his lesson, but years later and too late. If I have the chance, now that we’re over 40, I might hit that for old time’s sake.

    Guys going that direction should consider that in better times, your friend with benefits might have ended up being your wife. You just might have landed, dick first, onto a woman who would never harm you because that would be harming herself.

    It’s weird to me that today, guys will marry women who wouldn’t rub their shoulders after a hard day’s work, and will leave them and take half, but wouldn’t marry a woman who would take a bullet for them…or who, for the occasional pleasure of his company, will settle for being the one on the sidelines who sincerely cares about his wellbeing.

    Keep that in mind, and you’ll probably avoid overqualifying yourself. You are an idiot who won’t consider a girl who truly cares about you because she’s not ideal arm candy. So don’t screw up the arrangement by behaving as if your friend with benefits stopped being your friend after you shagged her.

    Like


  113. laura do you honestly take everything on the internet at face value? shark week is a week of shark-related programming on the discovery channel.

    god. seriously.

    in other words, she was making up a weak excuse. rejection.

    Like


  114. “based on their music, i suspect Arcade Fire sold their souls to god.”

    Haha. +1 for wit on this one.

    She’s ugly and can’t sing live and the music is contemporary SWPL tripe. Is this some kind of Emperor’s New Music shit?

    Maybe I’m too harsh and the album version is better.

    Like


  115. @Cauthon
    “”Email 4 was instructive. I have trouble judging when to tone down the cockiness and shift to comfort building. Stay cocky for too long and she thinks you’re actually an asshole; move to rapport too soon and it feels forced or turns into a desexualized, LJBF conversation.

    Any rules of thumb?””

    I live in Hong Kong where every chick has iPhone, linked to Facebook, Yahoo, MSN, etc. They rely on it as a way to communicate and love to be sent cool short texts.

    Biggest learning for me is don’t be so “try-hard”. The examples from #3 and #4 were me 3 months ago. Now, I’m tightening it up. I keep my texts to one or two words. usually I’ll text a funny line from the night before. Sometimes it will just be “bring drinks” if we’re meeting up.

    For Chat/IM, this is tougher. The key is understand when there’s role-play and when she’s seriously interested and looking to move into comfort.

    Chicks here will rely on MSN as a way to qualify you. So you can flip it to qualify them. Ask them “feeling” questions: “how do you feel about XXX?”

    It’s also important to know when to end it. If you feel she’s stopped asking questions or isn’t responding instantly. Shut it down. Either log-off or just walk away and dont follow up to her subsequent texts/IM’s.

    One key is if you write: “let’s meet up for drinks” or some activity and she doesnt reply with “ok”. Drop it. Don’t bring it up again.

    She hasn’t forgotten. It could be a shit-test. It could be she doesn’t want to meet up. Leave it there. Don’t bring it up. If she brings it up, take your time responding.

    Like


  116. Is Arcade Fire like this decade’s Talking Heads of Suckitude? There’s just something metaphysically wrong with this band. I would like to undo watching this video.

    Like


  117. Let’s see a post with the Chateau’s take on Christine O’Donnell, the Tea Party Express’s winner of the Delaware GOP primary.

    After getting fired for cause, she sued a conservative think tank just a few years ago for sexual harassment…because a coworker said “strap it on” in a friendly slang manner when she had a big project to do in a hurry.

    The lawsuit documents show she wanted $3.5 million for emotional damages because he wasn’t fired for that (in addition to another $3 million because her getting fired for cause hurt her ability to start going to school at Princeton.

    She won because Sarah Palin backed her with a group of possible but not proven White Knighters in California who started “Tea Party Express” for profit (I’m a backer of the general Tea Party movement but I’m not yet impressed with these guys’ integrity).

    Delaware men are, apparently, having none of this and she’s already 16 points behind in the polls against the male Democrat despite the fact that Tea Party candidates are doing extremely well everywhere else.

    Delaware men have no choice in this coming election apparently…did I mention that Christine O’Donnell is known for not only condemning premarital sex but with doing it to yourself? Comments in political blogs are joking about this constantly, which is reviving the GOP’s old image of being a bunch of anti-sex religious nuts.

    This isn’t to say I’d vote for the Democrat White Knighter she’s up against.

    I still think the Tea Party movement is the best thing men have going for them in terms of their rights getting a few nods in the future (as the gynocracy takes more control).

    But I can’t trust Sarah Palin more than I can throw her. She shouldn’t be getting more attention than Ron Paul.

    ————————–

    Good news for men from the business front.

    HP fired their CEO a few weeks ago because he seemed to have had an affair with a female contractor.

    Oracle, their competitor, hired him last week, totally screwing over HP because he knew all their secrets.

    The leader of Oracle mocked the girlie men on the HP board who fired their CEO for being politically incorrect vis a vis women (sex on company time).

    Now the CEO of IBM basically said the same thing, saying yesterday that HP shouldn’t have fired their extremely competent CEO over something so trivial.

    Like


  118. In other words, HP shareholders are going to suffer financially in a big way while the computer industry openly talks about how the board of directors shot the whole business in the foot because they wanted to be politically correct about a feminist issue (that businessmen, especially CEOs, shouldn’t have sex with subordinates).

    I’d like to see a CR post that spells this out and gets search engine keyword traction.

    Like


  119. @walawala

    “Chicks here will rely on MSN as a way to qualify you. So you can flip it to qualify them. Ask them “feeling” questions: “how do you feel about XXX?””

    Walawala,

    The “feeling” question…..Isn’t that a therapeutic question? You and therapy?

    Like


  120. Wait, why did the guy in #2 get a hotel? Why didn’t he just bring her home?

    Like


  121. @Madras

    Maybe there’s a long story there irrelevant to the field report. He sounds too young to have had a main squeeze living with him but he could have had roommates and she might have had roommates or parents. Then again, he might have been living with parents, in which case he did the right thing for sure.

    Women really do like being taken to nice hotel rooms. Its in their DNA. And it can make them do things they wouldn’t do in their own home.

    Like


  122. I was once with a woman on Bodega Bay near where Hitchcock filmed “The Birds”. My place was on the Peninsula. I didn’t want to drive her back through San Francisco after we started making out. The drive could have killed the mood. We got a nice hotel room nearby. Getting a hotel room fits the good advice that one must strike while the iron is hot.

    Like


  123. This is an amazing post, btw. I would like to see an elaboration on “email game”. Same rules apply? Treat emails like texts and keep it short, unpunctuated, no caps?

    Her: [3 pages of emotion, feelings and insecurity looking for affirmation of her interest]

    PUA: thats cool. bring the movies

    Like


  124. Okay. I’ll look for it.

    Like


  125. Dana–

    FWIW i dont think those studies are taking into account that a woman like that is more likely to marry whoever finally asks her to or who she can convince to, not someone shes really committed to. or in the alternative, she likely tries to marry the man shes cohabiting with to save a dying LTR, so it was destined to fail.

    (Note to others: we are of course both referring to the study that Thursday links to Slumlord’s discussing at his own blog.)

    No it’s not worth much at all. You have no evidence. Rationalization hamster.

    The oldsters were on to something. It IS much better for men to marry a virgin, if they want the marriage to last. Especially in the days of divorce 2.0.

    Note that with girls who’ve slept with 16 or more partners, the odds of remaining married after 10 years drop to 18 – 20% !!!!!!!

    Like


  126. I.e. if she’s slept with 16 or more guys before you your chances of getting divorced within 10 years are 80% or higher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This in the days of divorce 2.0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Like


  127. She’s ugly and can’t sing live and the music is contemporary SWPL tripe. Is this some kind of Emperor’s New Music shit?

    Whew! So I was not the only one to notice… 😉

    Seriously, it’s amazing what people pay money for these days. You can go to youtube and find many great amateur/semi-pro female singers that are not only purdy, but can sing like a pro.

    Just a few in no particular order:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/alleycat82
    http://www.youtube.com/user/kinagrannis
    http://www.youtube.com/user/julianaeveryday
    http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=69D97131614C196C

    Like


  128. Doug1,

    I have some serious doubts about that study, but nonetheless, I don’t think its rocket science to conclude that girls that sleep with a lot of guys probably won’t adjust well to married life.

    I don’t disagree that sluts make bad wives. It has just been in my experience that the opposite also holds true: virgin brides divorce at higher rates. Typically, a virgin bride is marrying her high school boyfriend, or maybe a long term college guy at a young age. Studies have already conclusively demonstrated that those that marry young have a much higher divorce rate.

    Like


  129. @Sidewinder

    Its a silly question to ask if all women have free will. Most hotties don’t. You have to phone them, open them, call them. Otherwise they will do nothing, unless Church Girl standing there fidgeting is nothing, which it wasn’t.

    This woman really likes you. You should have reminded her this Sunday that you *expect* that report by email (in a mock stern voice). She’ll be your friend if you behave like you expect it. You didn’t behave that way months ago but you’ve obviously been learning on this blog, big time.

    I think I wrote to you back then that you need to make the decision on whether to become her husband’s friend as well, in order to get invited a lot to their house, etc. You’d be surprised how many husbands let that happen, which gives the wife carte blanche to hang out with you a lot.

    By the way, did you *have* to bail out on that set at Starbucks last Friday? You were doing so well. Could you have engaged the female professor and established IQ credentials (the professor, if feminist, might not have allowed you to use her for that).

    Like


  130. @Sidewinder

    Not that IQ credentials are ever needed with most hot women.

    I just meant, could you have managed to number close with the two 19 year olds when their professor showed up?

    Like


  131. Divorce rates, schmivorce rates…

    No marriage = no divorce.
    How fucking simpler it can be? 😉

    [yea, I know did it twice… Some people learn from their mistakes (me), some learn from mistakes of others (can be you)]

    Like


  132. Sidewinder,
    It sounds like she probably does find you attractive, but you make her a little nervous. Also, she might be worried it will look bad if you and her are seen as being too friendly with each other. I’m not sure why she didn’t email you, that seems like it would have been an easy thing to do. As far as telling her girlfriends about you I think she might say something like he is cute, but maybe not talk too much more about you.
    The fact that she seems uncomfortable around you probably means she does find you attractive and that she is aware that you find her attractive.

    Like


  133. Doug1,

    I think the ideal wife would be a girl in her mid-20s, with 5 or less sex partners. She should have one long term from high school, one or two guys that she fell for after leaving mom and dad’s house, and i’ll give her up to two free rides on the carousel.

    I think for it to work, the girl has to know the value of your connection to her and has to have enough life experience to know what is worth working on and not bailing out on. I know for myself, personally, it took a LTR and a very difficult breakup for me to develop into a person capable of marriage. While too many crashes and burns can lead to a jaded woman (not good), a little bit of life experience can make her a more appreciative partner.

    Like


  134. Sidewinder,

    No. Email game is very different. It is multilayered and long-term. Back when people wrote letters, there used to be a whole area of game devoted to epistolary relationships. Compared to old-fashioned letters, email has the advantage of much faster interaction allowing for issues of pacing and momentum to be brought in. The big pitfall with email is that everything is saved and if you screw up it is there forever. Most people don’t treat emails carefully enough, so if you are careful to read everything over once before sending, avoiding mistakes and misinterpretable words, you can win big. The goal should be for your friend to have a Pavlovian response when the email system chimes that a new mail from you has come in, and to like them enough that she will reliably write to you in order to get a response if you have not written to her. If you can manage multi-threaded conversations where you talk about several things at the same time, and are adept at cutting and pasting appropriately and sending links and maybe pictures too, you can make your emails the high point of her day. Almost all the normal principles of Game can be applied in email: as a replacement for kino, address her by name (or pet name) occasionally; push-pull with longer and shorter intervals between sending; agree and amplify works well if you cut and paste and respond “inline” rather than have each email sitting on top of all the previous ones — when you do that, you can help yourself out by always using italics or a different font for what you write, and setting off things you had previously written in some way, so it is easy to focus on the new stuff that is beign said while keeping it in context. Pay attention to signoffs and mood-establishing cues. When there is something important you want to say, maneuver things over several exchanges to set up the best possible context for saying it as naturally and powerfully as possible. Keep a connection by starting occasional new threads with some interesting observation or talking about what you are currently doing, trying to stay present to each other. Warning: if you are compatible intellectually, this can suck up every hour you have unless you are careful.

    Like


  135. Sidewinder
    I think the ideal wife would be a girl in her mid-20s, with 5 or less sex partners

    Generally correct (3 max), but what is this wifey stuff?

    I call my LTRs a “wench”. I usually provide a translation beforehand = I am committed, unless you pull some kinda shit.

    Like


  136. Jerry,

    Re: 19 year olds

    Honestly, I think I could have f closed those girls. I don’t think they had anything going on, they were attracted to me enough to initiate the flirting, and were putting out the vibe and kino that they wanted to be physically close with me.

    The professor exchange was brief, and I could have waited it out. It may have appeared a little try-hard to the girls, and I was a little self-conscious about appearing to be having a “real” exchange with them because I am a professional in my 30s and they looked like barely legal college girls. I chose to abort since we had a fun exchange and I might run into them again. I live in a small city in the midwest. Plus, morally I feel I should draw the line somewhere before asking for numbers with girls that I have absolutely nothing but physical interest in. If there were a hidden camera, my wife would have hit me in the arm while viewing the video, but if I would have asked for their numbers, she would have punched me hard in my balls.

    Like


  137. Polymath,

    Your email game advice is legendary. It deserves its own post or the text game post should contain a link directly to your comment.

    This might seem like its coming out of left field, but is there, or was there, someone other than your wife whom you have a strong intellectual/emotional yet non-physical relationship? And I don’t mean just female friends or acquantances. Is there, was there, someone special that if you weren’t committed to your marriage, you would be with?

    Like


  138. “She’s ugly and can’t sing live and the music is contemporary SWPL tripe. ”
    Whew! So I was not the only one to notice

    Yeah, she has that Natalie Merchant look that doesn’t sit well with me.

    Speaking of music, about a year ago I wrote favorably of Mireille Mathieu, one of my all-time favorite singers.

    In response, commenter Admiral (I think) posted some Youtube vids of a female French singer from sixties or seventies, whose songs blew me away. Not Edtih Piaf. Someone less well-known.

    I’d be appreciative if anyone remembers who that singer was.

    Like


  139. Polymath,
    Good point about email somewhat replacing letter writing. If you read letters from the past, you can see that many people put a lot thought into them. It was romantic.

    Like


  140. Laura,

    Thanks for your read. The reason I’m curious as to her own level of self-disclosure is that I’m trying to determine how I should approach a more in-depth meeting, conversation or email with her.

    I personally think the mutual attraction is a huge elephant in the living room, and if we’re going to get to know each other better I wonder whether some acknowledgment needs to be made on the front end to get it out there in hopefully both a harmless and flattering way. Or maybe at least just acknowledge how awkward it has been in getting to the point where we can talk to one another (this has been going on for over TWO YEARS).

    If she were just a girl I thought was hot, I’d just flirt and not give a shit and not pursue any further. Because I want a non-physical relationship with her, i feel like I need to give some explanation why I’m not leaving it at flirting. On the one hand I don’t want to creep her out and make her think I’m a stalker loser looking to hook-up, on the other hand I want her to know that I want more than just flirty banter for 5 minutes every week. Its a tough middle road to travel.

    I’m afraid if I just leave the tension unaddressed, it will prevent the possibility of a real relationship.

    Like


  141. Jerry,

    Don’t you think too much time has elapsed to make reference to her flaking?

    Really, all of this tension is her fault. She single-handedly volunteered and then flaked on the email thing. While she may think she was being preventative in not going down that road, the effect of her flaking was that it multiplied the tension by 10 at least. It revealed that one way or another, she views me as dangerous, and its becoming less likely that she views me as stalker dangerous. I think the entire interaction revealed that she wants to be closer to me and at the same time she feels bad/afraid of those feelings.

    What scares me about being our spouses into it is that I know my wife will appreciate the threat immediately. There are not too many songwriter people in the world, much less women songwriters. For reasons unknown to me, her husband NEVER goes to church with her, so I wouldn’t even know how to talk with him.

    I’m afraid that once this ball starts rolling, its going to roll really fast, really soon. I think I need to get on the same page with the girl before spouses are brought into it. At least on my end, it is going to be a really delicate sell to my wife.

    Like


  142. @ Polymath

    Comments like these are why I come to this site. Even guys with solid Game can learn a lot from your missives.

    Thanks.

    Like


  143. @Sidewinder

    There’d be no video that your wife would ever see unless she was best friends with the manager of Starbucks. What you did was you bailed while your ego had been boosted by the great reverse open…you wanted to hold the self-confidence of that *success* going into the next set.

    For those who don’t know what we’re referring to, Sidewinder plans on being faithful to his wife in terms of going all the way with anyone else, but he’s apparently quite attractive to women and wants to socialize with women who find him interesting.

    With practice doing sets, Sidewinder, you’ll learn that its counter-productive (frankly, insane) to bail when things are going well, just so you will feel confident with the next woman who will probably be rude, stupid or incompatible (by the law of averages).

    You will probably see them again if they are studying locally, but life’s a bitch in that the best, even in a college town, often don’t come into a guy’s path by accident for months. You can up the odds by having lunch at the college cafeteria (find an excuse to give lecture help to business students).

    Its not try-hard to wait out an interruption, although I can see how someone who’s just getting used to doing sets might think so. Someone just getting back into doing sets might misunderstand some of the advice on this blog about appearing “needy” and maybe, when a woman you’ve opened has to take a call or talk to a friend who’s passing, he will think of the post about what to do when a woman turns her back on you.

    Valid interruptions are not cases of deliberately turning one’s back on a man.

    In my experience, if they already liked you and were in a conversation with you about other than giving you directions to the nearest post office, they will be amazed by your confidence in waiting out any brief interruption.

    If they stay on the phone more than 45 seconds and keep their back turned to you the whole time, that might be a sign to leave, but be confident and wait out the interruption otherwise.

    This advice is easier given than followed however.

    It does take nerves of steel to stand still with someone you just met who’s just had to field a phone call for 20 seconds or briefly talk to someone important like a professor.

    Like


  144. @Sidewinder

    Church Girl is not going anywhere and, if you’ve got any kind of reputation in that church, she’s not going to be thinking of you as a stalker if you make it clear you’d like to see each other outside of church (about songwriting or as friends).

    Please get the fear of being seen as a stalker out of your mind. At worse, she can get the idea that you want to cheat on your wife, but you’re already working on how to make friends with women who know you’re married.

    I can’t help you in that department because my only experience is in totally lying about whether I have any other women in my life. If I were suddenly you, I’d hang out at the university, get a second apartment and never tell anyone I was married. But you’re not a bad guy like that.

    Yet.

    Like


  145. Additional church girl interesting fact:

    There is an older man at church that sings in choir with girl in question. He is a married professor, and I’ve sensed in the past that he is trying to slow-play the “older, wiser, mentor” role into her pants. Maybe he’s already succeeded, I don’t know.

    She ended our conversation Sunday by saying that “these guys” were motioning for her to come over to them, but it had to be him because 10 minutes later, while I’m talking with the pastor, I catch him staring me down. I stare back and hold his insane gaze for at least 20 seconds and then have to look back at the pastor.

    I don’t know how to describe it, but something instinctual kicked in with him staring at me like that and I felt the need to seriously kick his ass. If he looks at me like that again, I am going to ask him what his f’ing problem is.

    Like


  146. @Sidewinder

    The plot thickens…is that guy married too? What a putz he is for staring you down, as if that would do anything to stop you.

    No, don’t turn him into an open enemy because he has her ear.

    But I’d playfully say to her “I think your mentor likes you” and then follow that up soon after with “Hey, I’d really like to be working with you on songwriting and being friends with you outside of church. Do you think your husband would be jealous of you having male friends”.

    The mentor is even more reason to get the relationship out of the church.

    Like


  147. arcade fire are The Premier Canademo masters of wussitude. I only have Black Mirror on my IPod, and that is a whiny suicide-y whimper

    Like


  148. @what

    Walawala,

    “”The “feeling” question…..Isn’t that a therapeutic question? You and therapy?””

    Maybe it’s therapeutic for the chickst open up.

    I’ve been experimenting with this “what do you think?” vs “what do you feel” ? approach in my game.

    Works better face-to-face to use “feel”. But in my chat/text game, using “feel” in Comfort stage helps.

    The other day I f-closed a cute, HB7 Indonesian-Chinese hotel rep I met in the hotel bar where I was staying by using the Mystery Method.

    In comfort stage I sprinkled “feel” throughout. Two hours later from “hello” to kino escalation, to push-pull, to kiss-close, brief neighbourhood walk, then hotel room…

    When she pulled the “so what are you looking for?” shit-test–well documented here, I replied “Someone cool to hang out with. With the right person, anything can happen, don’t you think?” 10 minutes later she was riding me.

    “Feel” vs “think” in text/chat game has also worked for me in building better rapport and getting more positive responses.

    Like


  149. dogpoop

    chateau dawgs, what’s this chick’s story? here’s a clip of christine o’donnell, the gop’s delaware candidate for senate, campaigning against masturbation on MTV in the 90′s. she’s good looking — any insights on what would motivate a girl of her stripe

    the 90s could make ANY person look goofy.

    Plus, we have a little thing called religious freedom in America – so she can believe what the fuck she wants.

    Only Americans are brave enough to brand Christians “kooks” while giving pork-free blowjobs to Muslims who want to build a mosque on the site of every bloody victory.

    Rather she call for celibacy etc – than Rev Al or Rev. Jesse calling for every ghetto jiggaboo to outbreed whitey

    nes pa?

    Like


  150. Jerry,

    He has marked me as an enemy already. On the one hand, that confirms to me that her IOI’s were apparent to others besides me, which is good news. But you’re right, he has her ear. I think he will unwittingly help me however. If he says anything about not liking me or having suspicions about me, its going to send her tingles into overdrive. He will unwittingly act as a middleman confirming my interest in her just as he confirmed her interest in staring at me.

    I guess I should just ignore him for now.

    I’m considering whether I should just go full frontal assault on her at this point and strike while the iron is hot. I know her name, so I could send her a facebook message. That might appear beta, considering she’s already flaked on me once, but I really feel like this dam needs to burst and the sooner we can be communicating one on one in private, the sooner i can work around this putz.

    Like


  151. Laura,

    Church girl situation: i.e. your favorite topic to discuss with the married Sidewinder.

    Either its on like Donkey Kong, or I am so delusional that I am borderline psychotic. After church service, instead of getting up and wandering into the lobby with everyone else, I just stayed put, sitting down with dominant/relaxed non-verbal posture. Girl comes down aisle, sees me, freezes, makes eye contact and immediately looks down at feet. Awkward exchange of hellos/how are yous. Then she just stands there, looking away, holding her arm and shifting her weight from one leg to the other. She looked like she was in pain and I felt pity for her.

    In an assertive yet relaxed voice I called her by her first name. She came right over. We talked for about 5 minutes and it’s all a blur to me. Its like the words were all noise and the real communication was going on non-verbally. I don’t know anything about game or picking up girls, but as objective as I can be, my intuition felt that she was very happy to be talking with me. When she left, she said exactly that.

    I agree with him that girls are typically pretty worthless for giving strategic advice in this area (no offense), but I had a couple questions as to what she may be thinking.

    1. Would a married girl disclose to friends or sisters if she had a crush on another man? Or should I assume that she would not say a word, or maybe not even acknowledge to herself, that the tingles exist?

    2. If my read on her is correct, why wouldn’t she drop me an email? About 4 months ago she volunteered to email me some stuff for my research, and i gave her my card. She completely flaked, making things awkward. She has complete plausible deniability in opening up a line of communication and I can’t understand why she wouldn’t take advantage of such an easy, low-risk opportunity.

    But maybe i’m thinking too much like a man here. With our conversation Sunday, I think she would have stood there feeling awkward for 5 minutes without saying a word before initiating conversation. Yet she responded enthusiastically when I directed her to come hither and communicate. Do girls just not initiate emails or convos with (married) guys they like?

    Like


  152. @ Sidewinder

    “If he looks at me like that again, I am going to ask him what his f’ing problem is.”

    That’s a great way to close out a Sunday church service.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    Like


  153. Dragnet,

    What are you getting at? jk.

    Here’s the deal: I caught him staring at me, so I looked up and made eye contact expecting a polite look away. But it did not deter him. His eyes got wider. So I stared back for 20 seconds, which feels like 5 minutes in that kind of awkward situation. He is challenging my honor, accusing me of doing something wrong. I have never been in a fight outside of the ring, but I really think kicking his ass is the right thing to do in this situation. Not in church…in the church parking lot.

    Like


  154. The only good and relatively original contemporary rock bands I am aware of are Muse (England) and Mando Diao (Sweden, english-language songs). I will have to give Arcade Fire more listening though and see if they grow on me.

    Like


  155. the 90s could make ANY person look goofy.

    Being twenty-one when I first hear “Smells like Teen Spirit” and the concept of Grunge has not yet crystalized in popular consciousness was one of the more awesome times to be young.

    There were other good things about that decade. Guns n Roses “November Rain” was the swan song of an older kind of rock music. Its glorious farewell.

    U2’s “Achtung Baby” and “Zooropa” were in the nineties but not of them. Good stuff. (Aside: nice memory of banging this chick while the latter album was playing to muffle our, um, noises.)

    Other than that, the Nineties are better remembered by Alanis Morissettes’ ridiculous “Ironic” and “Hand in my Pocket” attempts to be the voice of a generation.

    Like


  156. Totally off topic…

    Recent polls show an astounding rebound in the former president’s [Bush] favorability — to the extent that in the bellwether state of Ohio, voters would rather still have Bush as president than have Obama by a 50–42 margin.

    Heh

    Like


  157. Thursday

    Arcade Fire are really good. I’m with Sailer, we’re going to miss SWPL culture (but not SWPL politics) when it is gone.

    why – if you are compelled by Destiny to inconsolably masturbate into Black Kleenex while old Sloan tunes play, who’s stopping you

    Like


  158. @walawala,

    ”“Feel” vs “think” in text/chat game has also worked for me in building better rapport and getting more positive responses.”’

    Walawala,

    I”m not surprise that it works. The Asian culture prides itself on the their cognitive abilities,therefore really leaving the feeling sensing underdeveloped . They are not encouraged to feel. Therefore, when someone actually asks them “how do you FEEL about……???” their sense of connectedness will be heightened and their sense of comfort will sore. However, Too much of anything can be counterproductive. Is advisable to find a balance. Good luck. Happy hunting!!

    Like


  159. Sidewinder,

    Be careful. You have a fair amount of thinking to do before you take any action.

    Regarding my own situation, I would rather not give any details, but there are enough hints in the archives and on other blogs for people who have been paying attention.

    However, your situation is much more dangerous than mine, since it involves physical proximity. You need to analyze all reasonable scenarios, figure out what you want, and figure out what can go wrong.

    Like


  160. PA, I remember banging a niner redhead chick with Yes’ Relayer (Sound Chaser, Gates of Delirium) on my tape. It was cosmic and I did not need acid to trip. 😉

    So, I may be biased as music goes, it was seared into my memory.

    Like


  161. what, their sense of connectedness will be heightened and their sense of comfort will sore.

    That would be bad. Unless you mean soar. 😉

    Like


  162. @Morsellaux
    “what, their sense of connectedness will be heightened and their sense of comfort will sore.

    That would be bad. Unless you mean soar. ;-)”

    Yes…TEACHER!! lol!!!

    Like


  163. What would be sore? hee! hee!

    Like


  164. what TEACHER

    I was, at one time. But it caused a severe profesional deformation. As you see, other still have to deal with the rudiments of that period in my life. 😉

    Like


  165. what

    What would be sore? hee! hee!

    you sound like the hottest asian on here. Post a pic: lilgirl will suddenly feel compelled to reappear.

    Like


  166. what What would be sore?

    As my grampa always said, Kdo maže, ten jede {loose transl.:it’s all in lubrication}!

    Like


  167. @Firepower
    @what

    “”What would be sore? hee! hee!

    you sound like the hottest asian on here. Post a pic: lilgirl will suddenly feel compelled to reappear.””

    I think I’m the ONLY asian!!!

    Like


  168. theres no such thing as
    only one
    asian

    Like


  169. Morsellaux,

    Good to see that the Dubya hating is slackening a little. Reckon he will be treated much more kindly by history, like Harry Truman.

    Sidewinder,

    Probably a good idea to be very careful with the Church girl. It’s unlikely you will be seen as a stalker. That said, if you’re running game successfully (even if it’s unconsciously) on a woman you see on a regular basis, then an affair becomes likely. Playing with fire. That’s a lot more dangerous than flirting with girls in a cafe.

    Like


  170. what, there are many asians out there, trust me (I live in Vankong).;-)
    You, though, as Firepower noted, may be the hottest one here.

    Picture, a good idea. [wink]

    Like


  171. @Morsellaux
    “what, there are many asians out there, trust me (I live in Vankong).;-)
    You, though, as Firepower noted, may be the hottest one here.

    Picture, a good idea. [wink]”

    keep on wiiiiinnking…….!

    Like


  172. As my grampa always said, Kdo maže, ten jede

    The running gag among Poles is the funny effect of Czech language ito our ears. For example, “hodovla divek” is supposed to mean “girls dormitory” in your language. I don’t know if that’s real Czech or a joke, but to Poles it sounds like stereotypical Czech. The punchline is that Hodovla Divek means “slut hatchery” in Polish.

    There are lots of other similar examples.

    Buy the way, I can almost understand Czech when spoken slowly. While drunk, I understand it much better. And Slovak crystal clear in such a state.

    Like


  173. PA,
    I think you’re right about “November Rain” being one of the last great rock songs. I always liked the rock song “Hunger Strike” from the 90’s, but not as much as “November Rain”. Most cultural things come and go, but the best will always stand the test of time. I think I could listen to that song every day and still not grow tired of it.

    Like


  174. Morsellaux

    what, there are many asians out there, trust me (I live in Vankong).;-)
    You, though, as Firepower noted, may be the hottest one here.

    Picture, a good idea. [wink]

    ok, a picture is definitely out. living in Van Kong she’s probably an illegal “working in a spa” wink wink

    and wants to avoid RCMP deportation

    still, its a flight of fancy, imagining one daughter of cambodia having the cojones to fight lilgurl for the title of Tightest Dress as Avatar

    Like


  175. PA

    ..to Poles it sounds like stereotypical Czech. The punchline is that Hodovla Divek means “slut hatchery” in Polish.

    I don’t get it.
    What’s so funny – Czech (and especially Slovak) girls dorms are slut hatcheries.

    btw, “Prague” is Latvian for “regal tentpeg”

    Like


  176. PA, “ubytovna dívek (or děvčat)”, what you refering to is likely a slang from Brno area and it is “holdovna dívek” (e.g. where girls are kept). Brno slang borrows a lot of German and English words and Czechizes them.

    BTW, I loved girls’ dormitories, it was like an impromtu harem, if you knew how to get in past the reception.

    I was once in Yugo prison for crossing illegally the border, and when I told in Czech to the Slovenian judge lady that we went to Trieste “podívat se”, she burst in laughter and I and my wife were sentenced for days served (3) and released.

    Like


  177. Firepower, What’s so funny – Czech (and especially Slovak) girls dorms are slut hatcheries.

    True that!

    Like


  178. Text messaging your way to LOOOOVE! 😉

    Like


  179. Slovenian judge lady that we went to Trieste “podívat se”, she burst in laughter and I and my wife were sentenced for days served (3) and released

    My story is less dramatic. At my earlier job (in the US) I dropped my sandwich on the floor and mumbled “kurwa mać” (equivalent of ‘goddamned fuck’) under my breath. A Croat-born girl nearby giggled and said “I know what that means!”

    Like


  180. For those not fluent in Czech, “podívat se” = sightseeing. The Slovenian judge interpreted it as “humping whores”. 😉

    Like


  181. For those not fluent in Czech, “podívat se” = sightseeing. The Slovenian judge interpreted it as “humping whores”.

    In Polish “podívat se” (“podziwiać się,” very similar pronounciation) means “to admire oneself.”

    Like


  182. @Firepower
    @Morsellaux

    “what, there are many asians out there, trust me (I live in Vankong).;-)
    You, though, as Firepower noted, may be the hottest one here.”

    “Picture, a good idea. [wink]”

    “”ok, a picture is definitely out. living in Van Kong she’s probably an illegal “working in a spa” wink wink

    and wants to avoid RCMP deportation

    still, its a flight of fancy, imagining one daughter of cambodia having the cojones to fight lilgurl for the title of Tightest Dress as Avatar”

    What’s with Avatar? Firepower, you’re funny, but I have no idea what you just said. lol!!! cambodia and avatar? what??? hahah!!

    Like


  183. Morsellaux – for amateur linguistics fun, these apparently disparate meanings that occur within the Slavic language family all rest on the root word “div” (with variations per language).

    The root word “div” or “dziew/dziw” in PL ultimately goes back to the proto-Slavic concept of “wonder,” as in something otherworldly or divine. (aside: divine?)

    So you can see how “div” rests within “podziwiać” (PL “admire”). How do whores figure into this? “Div” is in the word divka (CZ girl) and dziewczyna (PL). Here, the word “girl” is built on the ur-word “divine,” which refers to a young gir’s wonderful qualities.

    Words like “whore” are rooted in an unflatering spin on the word “girl,” in Slovenian apparently, and in PL “dziwka.”

    Other words in PL that have the “div” root is “dziwne” (strange).

    Like


  184. on September 16, 2010 at 3:33 pm Gunslingergregi

    ”””’Sidewinder
    Dragnet,

    What are you getting at? jk.

    Here’s the deal: I caught him staring at me, so I looked up and made eye contact expecting a polite look away. But it did not deter him. His eyes got wider. So I stared back for 20 seconds, which feels like 5 minutes in that kind of awkward situation. He is challenging my honor, accusing me of doing something wrong. I have never been in a fight outside of the ring, but I really think kicking his ass is the right thing to do in this situation. Not in church…in the church parking lot.
    ”””

    lol catholic guys were the only guys who would fight me he he he

    Some tough bastards lol

    Like


  185. Polymath,

    I think the church girl’s older admirer is forcing my hand. He either thinks that its his pussy, or he’s convinced himself that he’s her protector (lying to himself that he’s only “looking out” for her pussy). Maybe he knows something, I don’t know, but he did not like it that we were having an innocent convo at church. My gut tells me that he thinks he’s running game on her and he sees that he’s not her top choice. So he’s going crazy macho dude on me, trying to make me aware of his “presence” with her, and I’m sure if I called him on it he’d try to claim some moral high ground about how inappropriate it is for me to talk with her (which makes no sense: I would have been comfortable with my wife observing the convo. Nothing inappropriate took place). He’s a jealous kook. That being said, he could seriously f my life up. He has access to my wife and kids and has demonstrated that he has no qualms about making an embarassing ass of himself.

    As far as things I need to think out: what more is there to think out? I have not successfully dealt with these feelings for over two years. The current strategy is not working. I feel like we have to start talking with one another. Hopefully that leads to a de-escalation and de-idealizing of her, but there is a risk it could go in the other direction. While i’m no super player or PUA, I’m attractive enough that I’ve flirted with girls at work, the gym, coffee shops… I can handle casual interaction with girls who I would like to otherwise sleep with. This is different. I’m at the point that I accept that I have authentic feelings beyond a physical whim. But I feel like I can segregate in my mind the physical attraction from the potential mental/emotional connection.

    She should have emailed. While I am sure she had good intentions, it only amplified the situation. If I don’t talk with her outside of church and get on the same page with her, this old dude could do something that would force a conversation with my wife that would be extremely premature and not helpful.

    My goal would be to establish a line of communication outside of church interaction, let her know that I’m a little concerned with the way her friend was looking at me, and without inquiring as to what his problem may be, let her know that I’d like to get to know her better and listen to some of her song ideas. And I would give her a heads up that I would probably be pretty short with any future conversations at church so as to avoid having to deal with this douche bag. I have no way of knowing where she might take the conversation from there, but hopefully it at least takes this crazy dude out of the equation.

    Like


  186. My goal would be to establish a line of communication outside of church interaction, let her know that I’m a little concerned with the way her friend was looking at me, and without inquiring as to what his problem may be, let her know that I’d like to get to know her better and listen to some of her song ideas. And I would give her a heads up that I would probably be pretty short with any future conversations at church so as to avoid having to deal with this douche bag. I have no way of knowing where she might take the conversation from there, but hopefully it at least takes this crazy dude out of the equation

    Sounds like a reasonable plan. In fact his existence actually gives you a good excuse to email her.

    Like


  187. Sidewinder,
    This man at your church clearly has it in for you and sounds like the type of person that would be more than happy to make a scene. He might see you with your young, cute wife and then see you talking to this other woman and think you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. I think it would be best to get her email address rather than have too much interaction under his watchful eye. He must be jealous.

    Like


  188. Laura/Polymath,

    Thanks for helping me think this out. Upon further reflection, this intervening third party (douchey old man) needs to be dealt with above all else. I have to get him out of the equation. Talking with her directly outside of church is probably the best course of action.

    The only remaining thing I have to do is to figure out what my plausible deniability is in sending her a facebook message. She knows i know her first name, but she never told me her last name. I looked through recent church announcements to see if I could portend to have seen it there, but no luck. I could email someone else from church and ask for her info, but that brings another person into the loop. Any ideas on what I can say if she asks “how did you find me on facebook?”

    Like


  189. How did you find out her last name?

    Like


  190. @Sidewinder
    >>Upon further reflection, this intervening third party (douchey old man) needs to be dealt with above all else. I have to get him out of the equation<<
    Are you not married?

    Like


  191. @Anonymous (to Sidewinder)
    Are you not married?

    I was just wondering the same thing.

    Sidewinder, how do you see your relationship with this girl fitting into your relationship with your wife?

    By the way, no need to answer if you feel the question is too intrusive.

    Like


  192. Anonymous,

    Sidewinder’s problem is that he wants a platonic/professional friendship with this woman (being prepared to deal with the mutual attraction and keep it at bay because of the potential benefits of friendship and professional collaboration), but a jealous 3rd party could put the kibosh on it by misrepresenting the situation to Mrs. Sidewinder.

    Sidewinder is playing with fire here, not so much because of his intention to have an opposite-sex friendship (those can be compatible with being happily married, and very valuable), but because of the intensity of the attraction he describes between himself and the woman. This is always a danger in opposite-sex friendships for married people — there is an infatuation phase which must subside before the friendship is “safe”. Using email to create distance would be a good way to get to know her better in a safe context, while keeping personal interactions minimal until they are necessary for professional collaboration or desirable for specific activities.

    However, it would be naive to imagine that Mrs. Sidewinder can be kept in the dark about all this. It would be best that she is aware of the friendship and acquaints herself personally with the woman so that she will not feel threatened — of course, if she has something to be genuinely threatened about then that must be defused.

    I stopped almost all my posting on blogs because of an intense e-mail friendship that takes up a lot of time, and don’t regret the tradeoff; but it is a relationship that is limited to email, the intercontinental distance involved creates safety. There are natural limits to it; and it therefore does not threaten my marriage (my wife is aware of it). In fact, it was probably only able to become so intense because I would be more restrained with a female friend whom I regularly encountered in person.

    Like


  193. on September 16, 2010 at 6:20 pm Gunslingergregi

    sure sidewinder don’t take my advice and talk to your wife about it.

    She may be the only one that could give you a good answer (advice) on the situation.

    Otherwise why did you marry her?

    he he he

    Like


  194. on September 16, 2010 at 6:21 pm Gunslingergregi

    Same with polymath did you talk to your wife about that shit yet?

    You should.

    Like


  195. Laura, I don’t recall ever not knowing her last name. I probably saw it in the church announcements at some point a couple years ago. I’ve never acknowledged knowing this to her, in fact, I always make her remind me of her name when I speak with her.

    SDaedalus/Anonymous – I am married. I will not do anything to destroy my children’s sense of home and family. But that does not mean I avoid all risk when it comes to my family. We take risks when we get in the car to go on vacation. At the same time, there’s a difference in degree between driving risks and letting my kids play with loaded guns. I am not exactly sure how a relationship with this other girl will be compatible with my marriage. If this jealous dude was not a threat to saying something to my wife or I in front of others at church, i would allow things to proceed naturally.

    But given his interjection into the situation, I feel that continuing to openly speak with her at church is a problem. And if there is mutual interest, its probably at the point that her and I should talk and figure out where we go from here anyways. That’s my thinking at least. Please tell me your thoughts. No one is being intrusive. I am looking for help.

    Like


  196. Gunny,

    I have a long comment in moderation which explains things; my wife is aware of my opposite sex friendships (both online and offline) and agrees they are not threats to her.

    Like


  197. Gunslinger, i think its too early to talk to my wife about this. I realize I am being far less than forthright with her, but things are too uncertain for me to say much anyway. The end result is that she is going to be upset and more concerned than she needs to be. And for what? I don’t even have confirmation that this girl finds me to be anything more than a pleasant guy at church.

    Ideally, I’d like to get this “concerned” old man out of the picture by opening up communication directly with the girl outside of church, even if its purely by email. I feel like I need to give her a heads up why I may seem less talkative with her from here on out at church. Then, hopefully i can feel her out (figuratively) and see where she’s coming from. If she seems totally happily married and not in to me at all, than it shouldn’t be a problem and I can let my wife know that I talked to this girl at church and am going to run my song ideas by here….etc.

    But if she acknowledges some interest in me, than I will let her know that she isn’t crazy and that the interest is mutual, yet I will seek to establish clear ground rules, and once those are in place, then go to wife with same information.

    Like


  198. @Cannon’s Cannon and Sidewinder,

    Poly has it right on email game. I’d never credit it, but I’ve actually seen email game pull some weird shit. It plays on women’s hindbrains and their intellect. It panders to them and and sets them up at the same time.

    It has to be done well. Despite the fact that Poly may be happily married, I’ve seen the guy pull it off.

    I hate email and texting with a passionate loathing, but I’ll give it this: if it’s done well, with a clear goal, email can be golden.

    I know people who’ve fallen in love through email. Well, I should clarify: I know… women who have fallen in love through email. The men might have fallen in love later.

    CC, you’re being exceptionally trollish and personal this time.

    It’s not like I didn’t know you had it in you – but on this score, Poly’s right, you’re not.

    Like


  199. @Laura, @Poly

    There’ an entire older culture of letter-writing that often intellectually/emotionally bound people together. That culture’s been largely lost. But if you maintain such a thing through email, drawing on a compositional, carefully constructed mechanism – with game – you can use email like a loaded dependence/seduction mechanism, making women sit waiting for your email, checking religiously to see if they got anything, reading and re-reading letters over and over again.

    Alas, this takes a special kind of art and a hell of a lot of patience. It’s not for guys going for a quick lay.

    But once you butter a girl up like this, it’s possible she’ll fantasize about you in her spare time for weeks or months. Then when you meet, … you just need to make sure you fit into her frame, and BANG you practically own her.

    I know one story where this happened, two from famous novels, and both novels are chick crack from the 1920s-30s, can’t remember the titles, and in the 19th century letters like these would grip the hearts of young girls and make them swoon uncontrollably. That’s a fact and a cultural memory.

    Poly’s advice about acquiring that kind of control over women is spot-fucking-on. if you can do it, it’s often more powerful than in-person game; you can claim the loyalty of a woman you’ve never touched. It’s bizarre, and it’d never work on me, or most of the guys I know, but it works on a certain class of intelligent woman.

    Like


  200. I’m still not sure what you are talking about when you refer to contemplating a relationship with this other girl?

    Are you talking about a sexual relationship, a platonic relationship, a quasi-sexual quasi-platonic relationship (assuming there is such a thing) or what?

    I think you need to have some idea of where you are going rather than let things drift along.

    It sounds from your posts as if you’re not quite sure what sort of marriage you want to be in.

    The difficulty is that if you start going in a particular direction without being sure
    (a) it’s the direction you want to go in and without
    (b) taking account of possible consequences
    fate has a way of overtaking and you can end up somewhere you didn’t expect. Maybe somewhere you don’t want to be.

    Particularly when there are kids involved, I think you should consider all this very carefully before proceeding further.

    Most women know our men fantasise about & crush on other women occasionally & chat them up & flirt with them when we are not looking and maybe sometimes even when we are. But actively seeking out specific other women for a relationship, even a platonic one, might be a bit hard for us to take.

    Like


  201. Re: Email game.
    I know that some guys conflate asshole game with everything. So, you’d take Neil Strauss’s online dating advice of total asshole, etc…and apply it to email.
    But I think back, girls who’ve like my emails have said they looked forward to getting email from because each one was interesting and/or fun. I like what PM says about the email version of kino, it rings true. So, yeah, if you find yourself in an email situation, and you’ve been back and forthing for awhile, you’d be surprised that she’s grown accustomed to you.
    But I’d also say that you need to be vigilant for beta bait shit-tests…going sexual or flirty or jerky could blow up. I wonder if there are concurrences about always being gentlemanly to force them to force you to talk nasty in emails.
    Also, looking back, having email correspondences flame out show that asking the usual loser questions has the same result as in real life. I think trying to be too clever also can cause the hamster to fall asleep.

    Like


  202. on September 16, 2010 at 7:16 pm Gunslingergregi

    ””””””’Sidewinder
    Gunslinger, i think its too early to talk to my wife about this. I realize I am being far less than forthright with her, but things are too uncertain for me to say much anyway. The end result is that she is going to be upset and more concerned than she needs to be. And for what? I don’t even have confirmation that this girl finds me to be anything more than a pleasant guy at church.
    ”””””’

    lol now would be the perfect time to come clean before it does become something. he he he

    Like


  203. on September 16, 2010 at 7:18 pm Gunslingergregi

    Sidewinder,

    If you want that chick to be a friend for real.

    The easiest way in the world to do it.

    The absolute surest way to get it.

    Would be to have your wife tell her that.

    Like


  204. on September 16, 2010 at 7:24 pm Gunslingergregi

    Then to keep it safe go ahead and only meet at your house when your wife is there to make your “music”
    together he he he

    Like


  205. on September 16, 2010 at 7:31 pm Gunslingergregi

    Well I am off to make my phone call first one.

    he he he

    Like


  206. @CW,

    Fuck Me.

    That was hillarious.

    Please post the HTTP link.

    I nearly wet myself in public. I laughed out loud and people wanted to know why I was rolling on the floor.

    So fucking hillarious, Dear God in Heaven, it’s just too much.

    Like


  207. PA, yea, in Czech a whore is “děvka” (pron.: dievka). Not sure how that came about. Maybe a corrupted dívka became a děvka. LOL!
    There are also “coura” and “běhna”, same meaning as “děvka”. “Courat se” means to walk slowly, lazily, while “běžet” is to run. So, there is a joke that there are generally two types of women, slow–“coury”, and fast, “běhny”.

    The Czech “divat se” – (to watch, observe) probably has it origin in “div” – (wonder)/ “divné” – (strange). Or maybe a reversion of “vidět” — to see.

    Like


  208. @PA, Morsellaux, et al,

    Morsellaux – for amateur linguistics fun, these apparently disparate meanings that occur within the Slavic language family all rest on the root word “div” (with variations per language).

    The root word “div” or “dziew/dziw” in PL ultimately goes back to the proto-Slavic concept of “wonder,” as in something otherworldly or divine. (aside: divine?)

    So you can see how “div” rests within “podziwiać” (PL “admire”). How do whores figure into this? “Div” is in the word divka (CZ girl) and dziewczyna (PL). Here, the word “girl” is built on the ur-word “divine,” which refers to a young gir’s wonderful qualities.

    Words like “whore” are rooted in an unflatering spin on the word “girl,” in Slovenian apparently, and in PL “dziwka.”

    Other words in PL that have the “div” root is “dziwne” (strange).

    Divus – Latin for Of the Gods or Heaven.
    Sanskrit – Deva (same meaning)

    Likely same all around.

    Must go back to a ProtoIndoEuropean root word.

    Like


  209. @PA

    “”Buy the way, I can almost understand Czech when spoken slowly. While drunk, I understand it much better. And Slovak crystal clear in such a state.””

    Right, to my ears, Czech sounds like Polish spoken quickly with a German accent.

    Ukrainian simply sounds like drunken Polish. Think ‘po goralsku’.

    Interestingly enough, Slovenian sounds the most like an older version of Polish.

    Like


  210. @Science,

    Zdrastye, Tovarisch.

    Like


  211. on September 16, 2010 at 10:31 pm Prophet Jeremiah your Daddy

    I have a codex not to send more than two massages to a girl per day.

    hahahaha privet you russian sleazy bastard, go make out with Gorby Gaytchov

    Like


  212. Jew Penn and Jew Teller demonstrate Mencius Moldbug’s law of the “ends against the middle”:

    (hi Cannon)

    Like


  213. @6:45 in, i mean

    Like


  214. @Gorby

    Polish:

    Dziwic: to wonder

    Dziwne: strange

    The Polish word for girl is “dziewczyna” clearly derivative.

    Dziwka: slut perjorative from the dziewczynka or little girl

    Interesting roots.

    Back to game….

    Like


  215. @Gorby

    one other interesting note, in the mountains of Poland, they use the derivative word “dziewce” as “chicks”.

    As in the folk song:

    Hej Bystra Woda

    Hej bystra woda, bystra wodzicka
    Pytało dziewce o Janicka
    Hej lesie ciemny, wirsku zielony
    Kaj mój Janicek umilony

    But one needs to be careful not to slip and use “dziwki”.

    Easy to sing that drunk with “Pytalo dziwka o Janicka”

    Like


  216. Quiet guys, we’re distracting CC from real e-Game: he’s busy achieving level 99999 on Elder Scrolls IV (Windows version).

    Like


  217. that movie deserves mention alone for its usage of “Sum Dum Goy”

    Like


  218. Hey, ya’ know what’s new? No more global warming, not even global climate change, now it is global climate disruption. Which can be almost anything. Does it rain tomorrow? Global climate disruption. Does it not rain tomorrow? Global climate disruption.

    See how that works?

    Like


  219. @Morsellaux
    “Some more linguistics:
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Slavic_*kury

    Professor Morsellaux

    Like


  220. @Sidewinder

    you should TOTALLY suckapunch that mf’er in the parking lot. you should take a crucifix to his head and go all stations-of-the-Cross on his ass

    b/c i’m sure he was staring you down in a mano-a-mano over someone else’s wife… rather than staring back at you like “why you lookin at me hooooomes”

    go for it!
    maybe you can get one post, instead of one call, when the nice blue guys come and give you a free ride downtown in the cab with the cool lights on it

    Like


  221. dam did I just seriously fucking talk to chick on phone for 3 hours and not realize it. lol

    Like


  222. @Sidewinder

    I have to admit I was laughing last night about the scenario @Manyacapo was just envisioning. Maybe he or she can help us write a screenplay for an episode of Desperate Housewives, an episode of Cops or a new pilot series “Desperate Church Deacons”.

    It sounds like your church is quite dysfunctional to the say the least.

    Is this woman better looking than Starbucks Girl? If she isn’t friends with you after 2 years, she sounds like she’s got less than 1% the social skills of the 19 year old.

    I never liked how US churches were devoid of nubile women or the way they might stay for the service to please their grandmother and run like Olympic sprinters the moment the service ended.

    But I can’t imagine a church where women who actually want to be there don’t sprint away…aren’t socializing very heavily with everyone there.

    Of course you should all know each other’s last names and the names of their children and all about every state they ever lived in. In a church parish, you would have every right to ask this woman if there are sick relatives you should pray for.

    You (like the rest of us) are learning enough game here that, within a short while, the lack of social skills of the people at your church will grate on you to the point where you may have to go less often. Especially if you learn this Sunday that Church Girl is an emotional midget and can’t hold a candle to the emotional maturity of 19 year old Starbucks Girl.

    I get the impression, so far, that Starbucks Girl was more grown up and mature than this woman (who’s 12 years her senior?).

    But I can’t really tell because you bail after opening them both and doing well for 5 minutes.

    I also get the impression that the woman’s husband has long ago decided that the people at the church have below-par social skills and is bored by them.

    You’ll find out soon enough if he is Alpha. There’s a good chance that he is, which is why she’s been behaving like a docile (mostly satisfied) cow so far.

    Meanwhile, do *not* get angry at the jealous old Beta.

    Like


  223. @Jerry what’s your drink of choice out there in e. europe? do you chug down vodka like a local champ, or do you order western drinks?
    what sort of sub-text would be communicated if a westerner ordered top shelf vodka shots in a bar out there, vs if he ordered a blatantly western drink like scotch?

    i remember trying to ask for a martini in europe once, haha the bartender had no idea wtf i was talking about and thought i was asking for a straight glass of martini&rossi

    Like


  224. Despite the fact that Poly may be happily married, I’ve seen the guy pull it off.

    yo, tired old man

    you are supposed to say “no homo” when your ubiquity wanders across the realm of the double entendre.

    if my compliment to polymath was too back-handed for you, fix your life. unlike you, i understand the opportunities to refine my worldview. who better to glean chess moves from than a grandmaster, especially one who is 1/4 Ancient? i mean, he’s using his visuo-spatial intellect to the fucking max. that’s like kobe pulling up off the dribble. can’t teach that – it’s inherent. might as well try to mimic, as long as i remember my own strengths in all those other areas.

    Like


  225. also

    could have fucked but the logistics were beyond salvageable.

    i need to figure out how to clean up this pronouncement so i can work it into the family christmas letter. grandma will nod her head in approval, as i see it, in that feeble little mind of mine.

    Like


  226. @manyacapo

    Western drinks are ubiquitous in EE. I’ll have to ask the bartenders here how they do with women, by the way. I’ve never asked.

    What I have done is had bartenders ready to accept a $10 tip if they introduce me to a hot woman who gets into a conversation with me as a result.

    Normally I don’t game women in bars, preferring day game on the street and in parks. This fits my belief that virgins are more likely to be found anywhere but bars.

    The kind of day game tip I’d give would be to stand in line at the train station when someone interesting gets on the line.

    Like


  227. @manyacapo

    I just subconsciously translated what I’d give a western bartender as a tip. Divide that by 4.

    Like


  228. About Email Game;

    In early 1995 the first serious web browser appeared (Netscape) along with the first serious websites. Almost within seconds, online dating sites became big.

    What was immediately apparent was that American women, outnumbered 200 to 1 on the net, felt they didn’t need to present decent photographs or anything more than fuzzy head shots…while women from Russia were showing what they actually looked like head to toe. This changed many a man’s entire world view to say the least.

    It was clear as daylight that the US women were counting on the idea that men wouldn’t get on airplanes to fly out of the country while they would fly from San Francisco to San Diego for a date with them (mostly sight unseen).

    I got into 5 or 6 long email exchanges with American women (and one Dutch woman) in 1995 and 1996 and quickly realized that having a deep knowledge of literature and other subjects was a huge plus. It seemed romance was heavy in these exchanges.

    But it meant little when we actually met in person. Once I flew 1000 miles to see an American penpal. I wasn’t attracted to her and ended up meeting a Russian exchange student in the park near her house while I was there for the weekend. The new woman was a bad email writer but the relationship worked better.

    Another time I flew to Holland and stayed with the penpal’s parents for two days before I was supposed to continue on to the Mediterranean where the daughter was, only to make the mistake of not recognizing an album photo of her mother when she was young. This pissed off the mother, a radical feminist, who made sure the daughter was cold as ice when I arrived on the Mediterranean.

    I haven’t used email game in more than 10 years. I will use email to send photos and maybe the occasional link. I also avoid meet the parents game because of the above episode and one other.

    Like


  229. Regarding the stupidity of my hanging out with the Dutch woman’s mother for two days before having my first real physical date with the daughter: the “Email Romance” had given me a completely false sense of security that there was a strong relationship there. I had mistakenly felt that we’d reached the Meet the Parents stage when we hadn’t even really had a first date.

    Amsterdam was on the way to the Med and we all thought it was a cool idea. Visiting the parents on the basis of an email relationship ranks as one of the 5 stupidest things I’ve ever done. The penpal had been saying in emails that we’d jump into bed as soon as I arrived…but that was before her mom spent a weekend with me before the first real date.

    At the very least, do not *ever* accept a woman’s email address if she’s refusing to give her phone number along with it.

    Be adamant about that. Do not do it.

    Like


  230. oh, i’m sorry…

    COULD HAVE FUCKED, BUT THE LOGISTICS WERE BEYOND SALVAGEABLE.

    take that, dad!

    Like


  231. omg bhetti!!!

    i caught that little sleight of hand! you’re a peach! 🙂

    now go back to your guttural religion you trashbag

    Like


  232. on September 17, 2010 at 6:20 am gunslingergregi

    awww jerry lol

    Gives jerry manly hug no homo.

    Poor trusting bastard.

    Guys don’t take the russian love letters seriously that appear in your inbox he he he

    If your gonna go to another country to see a chick yea call her.

    Or treat it like a vacation.

    I think I was talking with ulga before at one point but I kind of realized you know it wasn’t real when none of my questions were answered on the form letter he he he

    The 20 mil from some lawyer in africa prob ain’t real either or at least I hope not. he he he

    Like


  233. on September 17, 2010 at 6:25 am gunslingergregi

    Yea cannon there was blood in the water he he he

    And did jerry just come out swinging or what couple rounds with dejourno and he is a new man.

    Like


  234. now go back to your guttural religion you trashbag

    the ods are forty to one that this is a very erudite yet crude joke about things being shoved down the back of people’s throats

    and, unfortunately, one to forty that you actually think “guttural” has something to do with gutters

    Like


  235. on September 17, 2010 at 6:27 am gunslingergregi

    ”””could have fucked but the logistics were beyond salvageable””””’

    Yea it really doesn’t matter what kind of car it is you can still fuck in the front seat so what if she gets a stick imprint on her knee.

    Love don’t feel pain.

    Like


  236. moderation!
    “guttural” has nothing to do with gutters, but perhaps, givnig you some serious benefit of the doubt, you are making a very obscure joke about ramming things down throats.

    Like


  237. @Sidewinder

    Its great to see you doing field reports and proving to the world (along with Polymath and PA) that game is necessary for married men just like it is for single men.

    You, in particular, are showing that a married man should be able to befriend any interesting woman, including the exchange and use of contact information, without *her* putting the kabosh on that for any reason.

    Game would be used for that.

    Game is about control of your social environment.

    It is too bad that very few men are providing field reports here. Half the regulars are women and half the remaining regulars aren’t apparently actively gaming women.

    As to why so few of 3000 readers per day post field reports, the answer probably has a lot to do with an unfortunate historical aspect of the PUA and men’s rights communities.

    Until he took over in the past year as the Dean of Men’s Studies for Internet University, the PUA Studies field was infused with Marxist Feminism and men’s rights blogs were filled with social conservatives who didn’t want to see other men talk about having premarital sex.

    The Marxist feminist view of PUA Studies was as follows:

    Game was something that men needed because each man was like an insignificant sperm competing in large numbers to get through to a justifiably cruel and judgmental target who shouldn’t be bothered by him any longer if she gave off negative signals. Men were always wrong in this scenario (unless they were the one perfect Alpha) and women were always right (and right up there on pedestals).

    If a man failed with a woman and discussed this in a forum, he would be derided as a loser and, if he tried to say she had been dumb as a bunch of rocks, White Knighters would instantly say something like “Sounds like she knew what she was doing and you’ve just got sour grapes”.

    He has reversed the pro-feminist concept of game in the past 2 years in an ongoing process. White Knighters are only now appearing in the comments here less and less.

    His version of game is that it describes a minority of men who assume they are high value relative to the women they approach, whom great women already like, differentiating themselves to the women they find most interesting, preferably including a lot of the most fertile ones, who are mostly either dumb as a pile of rocks or who have “too much self esteem” considering that they probably won’t be sexually attractive for more than 3 or 4 more years.

    As you’ve witnessed recently, when I just repeat the above manifesto, I get attacked by the few remaining feminists and White Knighters like @Dalerojo while its otherwise clear that His new take on game has taken hold as a total refutation of the old Marxist feminist view of game.

    He has established that being anti-feminist is a fundamental part of being Alpha. That’s an accomplishment. He’s brought men’s rights people and PUA people together while he’s put single guys and married guys together on the same page as well.

    While there are some loose ends where he still needs to sweep some lingering cobwebs of Marxist feminism out of the concept of game (no commenter should ever arrogantly claim a guy is beta for getting a group of college freshmen to strip for him for pocket change now and then), he’s revolutionized the field of study and his manifesto could become a political force.

    Like


  238. or a thematic typo

    who knows?

    the demiurge?

    give me capo now or give me capo manyana, no homo

    Like


  239. @Gunslinger

    I had met that Dutch woman at a party in Italy over Christmas of that year. We talked half an hour there and exchanged numbers, I flew back to the US and then we did the 5 week email romance thing. Actually, the email bit was advantageous. I could have flown directly to the Mediterranean to cash that good will and not bothered with the outrageously stupid visit to the parents (back in 1995 many thought that one long email counted as one date so I stupidly figured that we’d gone on about 15 dates).

    I have completely avoided ever getting into an email exchange with someone in Russia or any stranger. That is a corrupt industry where the person writing isn’t who the man thinks it is. If you want to meet a Russian woman via an agency, make sure your first contact with her is in person.

    Like


  240. Jerry,

    How long exactly were your “long email exchanges”? You can think you know someone a lot better than you do after a few dozen emails. But after a few hundred the connection can’t be faked; there may still be whole areas of inaccessibility, but you can’t maintain a personality that is not really yourself over hundreds of pages, especially when they can be saved and reread. And when you average over 20 per day (counting both directions), a sense of being mutually present develops that is also unfakable.

    Gotta go now, someone has just sent me 3 emails….

    Like


  241. Cannon,

    if my compliment to polymath was too back-handed for you, fix your life. unlike you, i understand the opportunities to refine my worldview. who better to glean chess moves from than a grandmaster, especially one who is 1/4 Ancient? i mean, he’s using his visuo-spatial intellect to the fucking max. that’s like kobe pulling up off the dribble. can’t teach that – it’s inherent. might as well try to mimic, as long as i remember my own strengths in all those other areas.

    Thanks, I think.

    Like


  242. My comment from yesterday is still stuck in moderation. The part about Sidewinder was mostly echoed by other commenters. What I said about myself was this:

    I stopped almost all my posting on blogs because of an intense email friendship that takes up a lot of time, and don’t regret the tradeoff; but it is a relationship that is limited to email, the intercontinental distance involved creates safety. There are natural limits to it; and it therefore does not threaten my marriage (my wife is aware of it). In fact, it was probably only able to become so intense because I would be more restrained with a female friend whom I regularly encountered in person.

    Like


  243. Jerry, Laura, SDaedalus, Polymath:

    I sent church girl the following message to her facebook.

    “hi. interesting picture. i want to talk with you sometime before Sunday. shoot me a message or text. Sidewinder”

    Here’s my thinking: if she responds favorably, my plan is to keep the conversation extremely light, politely telling her that it was nice to talk with her but letting her know that I noticed her friend was staring at me. i won’t read into it at all and tell her that anything involving that guy is not my business. I’ll tell her that I don’t want to cause any conflicts in the church parking lot and that I just wanted to let her know so that she has a heads up as to why i’m less talkative on Sundays.

    If this approach makes me a beta wimp in her eyes, than so be it. Probably for the best.

    And that’s the other potential outcome: maybe she blows off my invite. She’s flaked before, and it really wouldn’t be a bad outcome for my mental health if she just flaked and her and her crazy admirer can talk about what a stalker freak I am. I can write her off in my mind, and go about my life.

    That was my thinking at least. Please feel free to tell me what an idiot I was to send that message.

    Like


  244. @Polymath

    I messed up on that email story because I hadn’t made it clear that I’d met the woman already at a resort in Italy and we were highly compatible physically (she was a 10 back then – would be close to 40 now – interesting how the most beautiful young women of the early Internet era are now pushing 40, meaning those girls who figured they could show a fuzzy head shot on Match.com in 1995 because men outnumbered them 200 to 1, could be out of the gene pool without a towel now).

    I have to admit she was good about answering back with sufficient sized emails. I’ve never met anyone since who could communicate with me in writing like that. But the mother’s report on me not being feminist overrode a 15 email romance. I hadn’t learned from 15 emails what her overriding ideology was.

    Both my current main girlfriends have together sent me about 10 emails over 5 years and all of them have been for sending photos or files (for me to straighten up the English on college homework or a resume or whatever). Texting is an entirely different story. The womenfolk are active and wordy enough on that medium. We’re talking thousands and thousands of those (all saved in a password protected section of my computer).

    Like


  245. @Sidewinder

    What an idiot you were. (Just kidding – After two years of dicking around, you do need to move on this situation)

    But, seriously, you didn’t make that ominous sounding first message easy to swallow like a simple Hi let’s connect would have been. That would have been a first step that would have deniability if she had to refuse – it rarely means anything big when someone tries to connect to FB as long as they don’t say “I have to talk with you in secret before Sunday”. ;-0

    I assume you were asking for a connection on FB right?

    Can she only send you a message back by connecting with you or did you include an alternative means of communication? Does she know your cell number to text you? You’d be presuming a lot that she would connect with you because her husband and weirdo the mentor could be Facebook Friends of hers. Also, when most people agree to connect, they normally aren’t asked to suddenly get into some kind of serious conversation.

    That said, if she likes you and her hubby isn’t an FB friend, she will go ahead and connect. But that would instantly bring you to the attention of all her friends online.

    Is your wife a Facebook friend of yours? Everything you do with Church Girl goes onto all your friends’ reading wall.

    If she asks you what you want to talk with her about, keep it light like you want to be friends but say the other guy was giving you the eye like something was wrong about two people talking with each other.

    But don’t make it look like you want to start an affair with her. Keep it light.

    Like


  246. Jerry, I did not ask her to connect for all reasons you mention. I just sent her a message and included my contact info.

    The goal was for the message to appear spontaneous, written by a busy guy who has other things to tend to. But I can see how it may appear ominous to her. I actually originally phrased it like this: “I want to talk to you before Sunday, nothing serious.” I removed “nothing serious” thinking that I can always say that if she responds with “what do you want to talk about?”

    Believe me, I will not suggest having an affair with her because I do not believe I can mentally handle having an affair with her. I want to keep convo light, brief, covering two points: 1) enjoy talking with you 2) your old man friend is crazy. Then I would steer the convo to music.

    Goal: open up a line of communication outside church environment. It takes crazy guy and wife out of it. That way she can flirt, reject, crush, or LJBF me one-on-one. Building true comfort is the goal, hopefully to the point that the relationship can be clear-cut enough to bring to wife’s attention.

    Like


  247. @Sidewinder

    I’m reminded of the funny scene in True Lies when the car salesman tells the other guy’s wife “Quick, we have to talk. I’m on a mission, my life is in danger and you need to take this briefcase”. 😉

    In the film that worked. The woman needed adventure.

    Like


  248. Jerry,

    One more thing…I think ominous might be okay here. If she’s into me, the message will go off like a bomb. If she’s not, the message is still perfectly socially acceptable and if for whatever reason in her head she can’t bring herself to respond, then I think you’re right: she’s a social retard. This is what I keep coming back to: I HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING WRONG OR INAPPROPRIATE. What is with this girl, and what is with this professor dude? Two years for her to finally talk to me like a normal human being? For crying out loud. If she thinks I’m a stalker weirdo, than the ominous-ness will hopefully scare her away from ever going to church and she can start spending her sunday mornings with her husband.

    Re: husband alpha status. Her husband is not alpha by any stretch. I’ve got him on every metric. Old professor dude probably has him on most metrics.

    Like


  249. @Sidewinder

    I would have brought music (song-writing) into the original message today. That way she’d be more likely to respond with ease. But she’d be seriously flaking not to answer you now. You had to move on this…so you will know whether or not to move onto becoming a mentor for Starbucks Girl.

    Like


  250. CHURCH GIRL UPDATE:

    She responds with “Hi. What’s up?”

    Anyone think that an in-person convo is necessary, or can we cover the necessary ground by email?

    Any suggestions for how/when to reply are welcome.

    Like


  251. @Sidewinder

    How did she respond? Email or phone text?

    Like


  252. Jerry, I thought the songwriting thing would be loading the message up too much. Because truthfully, I would not be taking this step but for the weird guy. Communication is obviously improving with her and I would have let it come up naturally in later conversations.

    I should have anticipated her response. Its passive and neutral, which is consistent with 2 years observed behavior. My email is not exactly clear that I want to meet in person in that I said i wanted to talk, and then advised her to send me a message or text.

    Like


  253. Jerry, she responded to facebook message, approximately 1 hour from my sending it.

    Like


  254. If it was a phone text, go ahead and call if you’ve got the experience of not sounding nervous with women on the phone. I’d call.

    If it was email, immediately respond with something like “Hi – I wanted your song-writing input for a project and I felt that church was too crowded. Plus Mentor Guy doesn’t like me talking with you there. He’s like your big brother. How about maybe meeting at the River Grill after work today or maybe for brunch tomorrow? It would be great to work together rather than just say hi every Sunday”.

    Like


  255. UPDATE II: she changed her facebook photo.

    Am I coming across as the fag that I feel like right now?

    Like


  256. She made the photo worse or added her family to the picture?

    Like


  257. Jerry, I’m not going to immediately respond. I don’t want her to think that I’m sitting here on the internet all morning (which is probably going to be the truth however). I’ll send something at noon. I’m liking your idea of bringing up the music because that is a legitimate diversion from any heavy feelings stuff and her older admirer (which is also connected to our chemistry).

    Like


  258. I think its actually the same photo, she just backed it up to show her entire body and her cat behind her.

    Just to show you how this situation and sleep deprivation has made me crazy, I am wondering if she may be a witch that has cast a curse on me.

    Like


  259. what, Professor Morsellaux

    Awww, you just couldn’t help yourself to jab, couldn’t you? 😉

    Piccie? When? 😉

    morsellaux at gmail dot com

    [don’t worry, my lips (or clicks) are sealed!]

    Like


  260. She likes you if the photo makes her more appealing. Sounds like you might get a new *real* friend now.

    Don’t delay too long. You want there to be a back and forth that gets somewhere before relatives and friends get her to commit her entire weekend.

    Like


  261. Jerry,

    I find it interesting that she changed her photo after my slight neg. I originally was going to say “Hi. Nice pic. etc etc etc”

    But due to my training via this blog, I changed “nice” to “interesting”. I think she changed the photo because she was self-conscious, which is a good sign.

    Like


  262. on September 17, 2010 at 11:45 am Gunslingergregi

    ””””Building true comfort is the goal, hopefully to the point that the relationship can be clear-cut enough to bring to wife’s attention.””””

    yeaaa riiiigghhhttt.

    If you just wanted breezy nice little friendship why the fuck is it a big deal to talk with your wife about it and why have you been practicing on other chicks to get ready?

    Like clear cut enough that in case she slips falls and lands on your dick you will be “safe” as far as the wife not knowing about her.

    Although I suppose that might be as much “danger” as you can get nowadays as a normal type guy.

    I’d say buy a motorcyle and drive really fast it can put a lot of things in perspective as you watch mack trucks come at you on a two lane with no divider or lines.

    he he he

    Like


  263. Sidewinder,

    You are doing well. Mention the music in the next email, you have to have some reason for having initiated contact and that is the best one. Ask if she’s interested in collaborating, do NOT bring jealous older dude into the picture on the next few messages, since you’ve now made a connection that has bypassed him you do not need to justify it or make things weird.

    I assume you are communicating via private FB mail, not by “writing on walls” that everyone can see. When convenient but only when you can do so smoothly, switching to regular email would be a little better since FB is full of distractions and is also more often left as an open window on someone’s computer.

    And get a grip.

    Like


  264. To meet the mistress in church lol, what kind of church is it, why go there if you dont believe in it?

    Like


  265. Gunny,

    Appropriate for him to mention the contact to the wife pretty soon, not necessary until an occasion to get together in the same room away from church is imminent. Sidewinder should assume Mrs. S will eventually learn about everything he does, and make everything consistent with an innocent friendship and professional collaboration.

    Pitfall is his own intense infatuation and possibly church girl’s. This is certainly manageable if for someone who has done it before, but if it is a new experience then it is necessary to be constantly aware of both innocent and non-innocent contingencies at every stage in order to avoid falling into something “unintended”.

    Advice would be different if he really wanted to cheat; but if he doesn’t, he shouldn’t start playing with fire by juggling flaming torches but with much simpler and more controllable situations.

    Like


  266. You’re a married man gaming married chicks, in church no less! Your intentions to not have sexual intentions after lusting for this woman for two straight years amuse me, mortal. Come straight to HELL, do not pass Go, do not collect $200! Intentions like yours pave the way here. Plus we have cookies. *EVIL LAUGH*

    Like


  267. I feel like I need to defend myself here. I am the “normal” person in this situation. While I have incorporated game principles into my general personality, I have not tried to set up anything inappropriate with this girl. It has become weird because of her and the weird ass mf’ers at this church. I approached and talked to her like a normal person on multiple occasions the past 2 years, culminating with one of my better approaches ever that led to her asking for my email address (and then never following through).

    Last Sunday, by the grace of God and my gentle command, she came over and we had a nice normal conversation for once. But it couldn’t just be that simple; some weird asshole evidentially has a woody for her and acted like a psychopath because I talked to her for 5 minutes and she appeared to enjoy talking with me.

    The church is a unitarian church composed of hippies and academics. The social awkwardness of the congregation is so extreme that it is comical.

    I live in a college town where many other attractive girls are available to me for much less effort and risk to my family. But I genuinely to like this person and would like to get to know her further. I can separate this from the fact that she is attractive, but it makes it a delicate situation.

    At this point, wife wouldn’t care that I talked to this girl at all. While this girl is attractive (between 7 and 8), Wife figures she has her beat on looks. The problems are going to come up further down the line when she learns more about this girl. My wife already doesn’t understand why im in the basement recording piano and guitar parts for hours at a time, she is going to be extremely threatened if I’m down there with another girl.

    Like


  268. Polymath, thank you for reminding me to sack up. I was going to ask you, do you see any reason to meet in person or can I just talk to her over email?

    I’m confused on your advice now. Yesterday, I thought weird old guy was the topic that I needed to discuss with her in order to give myself a pass on talking with her in church. Now you say I shouldn’t even bring that up? If I don’t, then why did I tell her I wanted to talk with her before Sunday?

    The more I think about it, it would be ideal to meet in person. I would open the convo saying nice light things about enjoying talking with her and then talk about music stuff. I would throw in weird dude issue at the end, as an explanation for why I wanted to talk with her before Sunday (not looking to cause any conflicts at church).

    Like


  269. Bictopia,

    I have yet to find a single thing the church believes in, which makes it available to basically anyone. I’m probably being too hard on it. I do believe in the Unitarian approach and agree with Jefferson that it is the ideal of protestantism. However, Jefferson was wrong in predicting that everyone would be unitarian in 100 years, and as a practical matter, the unitarian church in my town attracts hippy liberal freaks like bugs to a flame.

    Like


  270. I just meant that you shouldn’t mention him right away because it makes the initial contact weird, eventually he provides the explanation why you wanted to get in touch before Sunday. But you could also say that you wanted to talk away from church simply to avoid making other people wait up.

    In person is fine in a safe place where you can talk freely, email is fine too, the thing you need to do is simply establish a rapport so you can talk comfortably with each other.

    However, what worries me is that you say your wife doesn’t understand why you are doing music in the basement. If music is important to you then it should be important to her that you get to do it. In that case you have a good reason to make musical connections with other people. But if she is already hostile to your musical hobby, you have a more serious problem — even apart from the fact that it makes it much harder to have an open and innocent friendship with church girl, this is a marital issue you need to resolve.

    Like


  271. Polymath,

    I don’t even want to get into the problems in my marriage. The family is what matters to me now. Marriage is a fundamentally weak connection. I want my kids to have their Mom and Dad in the same house for the rest of their lives. I just also want their Dad to be happy and fulfilled and not a miserable person.

    Tactics: when should I message her back? Is noon a good plan? Is asking to meet in person to discuss music too much too soon for my next message? Or do I need to get to the point?

    Like


  272. @Sidewinder

    We’ve assumed that you want to meet in person before Sunday. That would probably require a phone call between your FB messages and the meeting. Did you not write back yet? I had been thinking that, without mentioning weird mentor good naturedly, she could just say “let’s talk in church – I’ve got family plans tonight and tomorrow”. That’s why I presumed to allude to him briefly in the message that says let’s meet to discuss music collaboration where we won’t be under everyone including your mentor’s watchful eye. You know the situation best. If you think he’s the best reason to get her to agree to meet away from church, by all means use him in a playful manner.

    Enough time has elapsed. You can message her anytime now if you were hoping to get an exchange going that would lead to her cell phone number, a call and agreement for this evening or tomorrow for brunch.

    Like


  273. Yes, women like it when you get to the point.

    Like


  274. @Morsellaux
    @what, Professor Morsellaux

    “Awww, you just couldn’t help yourself to jab, couldn’t you? 😉

    Piccie? When? 😉

    morsellaux at gmail dot com

    [don’t worry, my lips (or clicks) are sealed!]”

    heheheh!! nonononon picccie no!!

    Like


  275. Beware of Stealth Sluts…..they are amongst us

    As I have posted I have dated about 35 women on Match.com this year.

    90% went nowhere; however, in conversations it became apparent that slutiness and age are highly correlated.

    The older a women gets, the more guys she has fucked, pure math.

    So, I met many clean cut, conservative women who admitted they had “friends” (ie, themselves) who had “slept with over 100 guys or stopped counting after 100”

    So, was I dating crack whores?

    NO…women who reject 90% of MEN

    The Math:

    Here is how they described their friend.

    She goes out every weekend, Thur-Sat, and usually blows off guys 90% of the time:

    “She just got tired of going home with nothing after 12 nights out a month! So every other month she sleeps with a guy.

    So 3 times out x 4 wks = 12 guys*10% =1 fuck * 6mo= 6/yr

    So

    -So over 5 yrs (25 yo) this girls sleeps with 30 guys

    -Over 10 yrs this girls sleeps with 60 guys

    -Over 15 yrs (a 35 yo) its up to 90!

    You object and call BS!

    In reality they fuck 4 randomly (one night, vacation, travel,f-buddy) the other 2, one is BF for 9 mo, one is “seeing her” for 3 mos. “So. she had a BF all yr her friends say.”

    These are the happy hour, pool party, vegas party, club chicks you see out…and imagine them not fucking, BJs or doing anything for 11 out of 12 night out a month !

    Most are doing something 3-6/12 nights a month so those number are off charts.

    Like


  276. what, non? why non? c’mon!
    I don’t do voodoo! 😉

    Like


  277. Sidewinder,
    Your wife doesn’t have to be your soul mate. One person can’t be everything and there is nothing wrong with pursuing friendships with other people.

    Like


  278. Sidewinder,

    Your situation is becoming clearer now. It is more dangerous than had previously been apparent. Having friendships with women other than your wife works well only if your marriage is satisfactory. It is not easy to keep an infatuation under control if you are happily married, but it’s workable; if your marriage is doing badly then it is more important to fix that BEFORE developing any emotional connections with other women.

    Keep your friendship with church girl online for now, and start gaming your wife. Being friends with another woman, if you do it openly, will actually make you more attractive to your wife (you might be shocked how effective this is, especially if the other woman is very young).

    Like


  279. Laura,

    Your wife doesn’t have to be your soul mate. One person can’t be everything and there is nothing wrong with pursuing friendships with other people.

    True, but if your wife is not your soulmate and your new friend just might be, you are in deep trouble. The better your relationship with your wife is, the better your relationships with other women can be.

    Like


  280. Also, a bad marital relationship means that a lapse into cheating with a new woman friend could lead to disastrous consequences including divorce. With a good marriage, cheating is much less likely and the marriage is much more likely to survive it if it does happen.

    Like


  281. on September 17, 2010 at 2:04 pm Gunslingergregi

    ””””on September 17, 2010 at 1:52 pm Polymath
    Also, a bad marital relationship means that a lapse into cheating with a new woman friend could lead to disastrous consequences including divorce. With a good marriage, cheating is much less likely and the marriage is much more likely to survive it if it does happen.
    ”””””

    Except if you are emotionally (instead of just fucking for variety) as a man cheating on your wife and your religion says that you can only have one.
    Then isn’t that some pretty dangerous territory as well no matter how good the marriage is?

    I mean if you could have 2 and no biggy then an emotional connection with 2 woman might not be so bad. If you must choose at some point and you will have to choose then wtf over

    Like


  282. on September 17, 2010 at 2:07 pm Gunslingergregi

    hmmm interesting what is the word for (cheating) when it is known by the woman your with.

    Like


  283. Looks like negging got a guy in trouble. He was stabbed by the chick after telling her that her feet smelled: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/09/17/us/AP-US-Smelly-Feet-Stabbing.html?_r=1&hp

    I’m wondering if as women become increasingly violent, some tactics will need to be adjusted.

    Like


  284. Polymath,
    I agree. Your wife should come first.

    Like


  285. Laura is right.
    From my perspective, there is no harm in having friendship or flirting with other people, its harmful to stand closer to strangers then a family. Cheating can be forgiven, but not always! Some missteps breach the foundation of trust, others times it does not. Naturally i dont accept cheating as a norm, if it would happen, the act itself is not powerful enough to break strong bonds, but it is the way one did or the way one explained or the choice of words that can cause the damage that will ultimately destroy or rescue a relationship.

    Like


  286. If Mr. Creepy McCreepster had any effective game he’d be a predatory menace in that church. As it is, he’s only pathetic. He sounds like a junior high school girl endlessly speculating on and analysing every glance from the football captain she’s breathlessly obsessed with.

    This won’t end well. Either she and her husband will have to leave that church because of Creepster, or the minister may end up having to advise/warn him to leave her alone or ask him to leave the congregation (if the minister has any balls – Unitarians are about as morally judgmental as Wiccans).

    If Creepster’s intentions were truly friendship-only, then he wouldn’t be bending over backwards to try to convince everyone that his intentions are honorable and that he would never ever consider tempting this woman into having an affair with him (promise! really!). Nor would he be discussing this on a GAME blog, duh. The rationalization hamsters of Creepster and the other old fart on this thread are stronger than those of most women. That must be something that comes with age, when old men start to turn into old women like old women start becoming old men.

    Like


  287. Biki’s play on the Cyrilic alphabet is one of the cutest things I came across on the internet.

    Like


  288. Merci PA, I have my creative moments 🙂

    Like


  289. Hell, for all you know that old guy in the church may be her own father or father-in-law, correctly detecting you as a predatory threat to his daughter’s marriage.

    Like


  290. Tinderbox, i guess it could be speculated, for me it seems that Sidewinder should take a careful look around him, especially what signals he gives off and to who.

    Like


  291. Laura,

    Thank you for being reasonable. My parents have been married over 35 years and I don’t think they would ever describe the other as a “soul mate”. And Polymath, what if this girl is my soul mate? I am not going to be able to go on living wondering what if.

    But all of this is absurd at this point. I don’t know this girl. And that’s her fault. I’m just manning up to figure some shit out. This girl, and this crazy church, are introverted weirdos and I’m not going to let them drive me crazy anymore.

    The plan is we’re going to go on a walk tomorrow sometime. I will wear spandex and a thong. I’m just going to talk to this girl like she is a cool chick, and maybe she will relax enough to actually be one. I’m not going to discuss any heavy issues.

    Tinderbox, I will not f this girl because I will have already been with your Mom in the morning.

    Like


  292. on September 17, 2010 at 3:46 pm gunslingergregi

    ”””The plan is we’re going to go on a walk tomorrow sometime. I will wear spandex and a thong. I’m just going to talk to this girl like she is a cool chick, and maybe she will relax enough to actually be one. I’m not going to discuss any heavy issues. ””””

    That makes sense.

    I think your getting the hang of it.

    Like


  293. If you are prepared to leave your wife for a “soulmate”, fine. Otherwise, the only way you will be able to safely enjoy a friendship that close with this girl is to improve your relationship with your wife first.

    However you handle Church Girl, work on your LTR game so your family life will be happier, that’s something you should be doing anyway.

    Like


  294. Sidewinder:

    All right, buddy, i hate to be the downer here. but let’s take a look at what you’ve told us so far. First of all, you are the same guy who left this comment, correct? The comment in which a girl turned to you, unsolicited, and said, right in front of her beta bf, “It was a pleasure talking to you. I hope you have a good day.”

    The same guy who thought he could have “f-closed” two 19-year-old college girls who *gasp* commented on his briefcase, correct?

    Yeah, that’s what I thought.

    Whoever’s up there telling you that you sound like a pre-adolescent girl over-analyzing every look the quarterback gives her is right. I hate to break it to you, but let’s go through the interaction that you had with “church girl”:

    *You had a neutral, casual 5-minute conversation in church
    *You gave her your card once, and she forgot to send you an email
    *Some guy looked at you
    *You sent her a facebook message and she responded

    Okay, so that’s what we have so far.

    Let’s analyze!

    1. Conversation in church:

    After church service, instead of getting up and wandering into the lobby with everyone else, I just stayed put, sitting down with dominant/relaxed non-verbal posture. Girl comes down aisle, sees me, freezes, makes eye contact and immediately looks down at feet. Awkward exchange of hellos/how are yous. Then she just stands there, looking away, holding her arm and shifting her weight from one leg to the other.

    What might have been going through her head: OMG…I totally have a huge crush on this man. Maybe I should just stand here awkwardly not talking to him so that I can highlight this tension.

    What was probably going through her head: Wonder why this guy isn’t saying anything. Would it be rude for me to leave? I do have to see him every Sunday.

    In an assertive yet relaxed voice I called her by her first name. She came right over.

    The possible situation: She loves you, which is why she immediately came over.

    The probable situation: She knows her name, and you said it.

    my intuition felt that she was very happy to be talking with me. When she left, she said exactly that.

    This might have meant: She was happy to be talking with you…happy in a sexytimes way, that is.

    This probably meant: She wasn’t really all that happy to be talking with you, but was trying to be polite.

    Conclusion: You had a really boring, normal, after-church conversation with some girl and all of the supposed “sexual tension” was on your side. She felt nothing, except perhaps awkwardness as she tried to escape said convo.

    2. You gave her your card once, and she forgot to email you

    Really, all of this tension is her fault. She single-handedly volunteered and then flaked on the email thing.

    Riiight. You gave her your card and asked her to email you about a research thing, and she didn’t.

    Possible situation:

    It revealed that one way or another, she views me as dangerous, and its becoming less likely that she views me as stalker dangerous. I think the entire interaction revealed that she wants to be closer to me and at the same time she feels bad/afraid of those feelings.

    Probable situation: Your conversation about the email was so sexless and neutral that, um, she forgot.

    3. Some guy looked at you

    I catch him staring me down. I stare back and hold his insane gaze for at least 20 seconds and then have to look back at the pastor.

    What might have been going through his head: That guy was totally talking to that girl that I wanna fuck. Fuck him, fuck his wife, fuck his family. I’ll fucking kill him!

    What was probably going through his head: Wonder why that guy is staring at me.

    4. You sent her a facebook message and she responded

    What might have been going through her head: Wow, he totally messaged me on the book of faces! That must mean he really likes MY face. Maybe he loves me.

    What was probably going through her head: Oh, crap, it’s that dude from church that I forgot to email. I feel bad about that…I’ll respond. Let’s make it super-neutral though, because he’s kind of creepy.

    **By your own admission:

    I should have anticipated her response. Its passive and neutral, which is consistent with 2 years observed behavior.

    So, yeah. There we have it. You talked to a girl in a casual, neutral manner at church and now you’re reading WAY THE FUCK INTO IT.

    Remember, you are the same guy who thinks that two 19-year-olds “initiated flirting” with you because you walked out of a Starbucks and ONE OF THEM LOOKED AT YOU!!!! AAAAAH OMGWTFBBQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111one1

    Like


  295. So what’s the big justification for risking potential family destruction by messing around with married women from your church? Does your wife withhold sex or something? That’s what married game is supposed to remedy.

    Instead you’d rather risk your own family, this woman’s family, your reputations in a church you have no respect for (do you only go to church because of your infatuation for this chick?), because you can’t stand being “unfulfilled’ for the years it will take to raise your kids until they’re out of the house. Whining about your lack of a “soulmate” – a feminine construction in itself.

    Like


  296. on September 17, 2010 at 5:55 pm gunslingergregi

    ioi’s do mean the woman want to fuck though. Woman don’t do that shit on accident.

    Like


  297. @Polymath @Gunslinger

    You guys aren’t being men tonight if you let a fem and an insecure young guy get away with their overly hostile ad-hominem attack on Sidewinder, a guy who’s trying to improve himself.

    Its not as if they’re going to get away with it anyway. I’m sure Sidewinder will have the last word. But let’s make it a definitive slam-down. Sidewinder doesn’t have the time to monitor a flame war against him by much younger tykes and dykes…and lurkers shouldn’t be learning how they should avoid making constructive posts for fear of feminists and punks descending on them.

    I explained above how man on man hostility on PUA blogs comes from a PUA scene that was duped for years by feminists who got the insecure non-contributing males (or themselves disquised as such) to imply that the women in all bad field reports were “correct” in their behavior while the men were always wrong and unworthy.

    This sudden non-constructive hostility toward Sidewinder only sets things up for a flame war where I’ll have to read dumbed down feminist or social conservative hogwash directed against Sidewinder, which will definitely cause more interesting lurkers to refuse to contribute their own field reports.

    If either attacker had some field reports or harem composition descriptions to counter Sidewinder’s input, that might be different.

    Now @Mercury is clearly female…also clearly feminist. That’s clear because any male reader can tell that Church Girl and Professor Mentor are obviously more socially inept than Sidewinder is (and at least Sidewinder is improving his social skills by listening to him and asking for feedback).

    Mercury spent a lot of time, obviously, on her analysis of Sidewinder’s quoted past writings (its creepy to do that) but deliberately left out the fact that 19 year old Starbucks Girl actually did open the guy, who is apparently a well-built 35 year old guy with a buzzcut…and that counts for a lot.

    Its very rare for 19 year olds to start talking to male strangers about something she likes about him (and she wasn’t really interested in the briefcase). But then again, feminists and insecure young males don’t WANT to believe that 19 year old females can be attracted to a 35 year old man.

    Sure, since Sidewinder was a Beta Married guy a month ago, he’s obviously making some mistatements, but none that would cause a non-insecure person to get so hostile.

    Now @Tinderbox seems to have a problem that Sidewinder is 35, financially well-off and well built and 19 year olds are opening him outside of Starbucks? And what’s with the sudden social conservatism? Tinderbox: You’ve often made it clear that you don’t believe in any other kind of sex except full intercourse. Sidewinder would be OK with a massage from Starbucks Girl.

    That’s no reason to get hostile online when Sidewinder could probably kick your ass in real life.

    It was way off base (and feminist oriented) to assume that Sidewinder’s wife is with-holding sex instead of what’s always more likely in such cases: the wife is possibly getting too fat or no longer sexually attractive to a husband who is getting better and better looking as he gets older.

    @Polymath and @Gunslinger: The issue here is the childish hostility coming out of nowhere. In real life you would stand up to fems and insecure kids who would launch an arrogant ad hominem attack on a guy you were having a grown up conversation with.

    Let’s please see the same dynamic on this blog.

    Like


  298. “”gunslingergregi
    ioi’s do mean the woman want to fuck though. Woman don’t do that shit on accident.””

    But without game, those IOI’s are like rainbows, they flash, then disappear.

    The best thing I read on this blog lately was that the key to a successful pick up is to escalate without looking like you care.

    Like


  299. Mercury,

    Your post echos my own thoughts. These are exactly the over-analyzing and self-degrading thoughts I think every day. I’m tired of thinking like this. I have taken the matter into my own hands.

    I talked with the girl on the phone today. We are meeting tomorrow morning for a walk. She could think I’m a total creeper, she could be in to me. I don’t know. I’m going to talk to her and listen to what she has to say.

    Even if she is totally infatuated with me, and even if the chicks at starbucks wanted to double-time me, that does not change that I am a through and through beta, 30 something, lawyer. I do not mean to sound over-important. I only post this stuff because I am looking for help.

    Like


  300. Tinderbox,

    I want to talk to this girl. That’s it. I would like to connect with a girl that is not one of my wife’s boring friends. A big part of me hopes that I am completely underwhelmed, that I gain a more realistic sense of the female gender, and I feel more satisfied with my spouse. Another part of me hopes that this other girl unequivocally rejects any idea of being interested in me. This would be an ego blow, but would probably be good for my mental health long term. But part of me thinks otherwise. I wouldn’t be doing this if I just wanted to have sex with another girl, and I definitely wouldn’t be doing this if I didn’t think the feelings were mutual. I could definitely be wrong. We will see. I feel confident that nothing will happen tomorrow that will foreclose my ability to make controlled decisions in the future, even if she professes her love and strips all her clothes off.

    Like


  301. bictopia,

    #1, if that is you in the picture, you are a hot chick. I will stare down any mf’er to hang out with you.

    #2, I didn’t put off any vibes. I stayed seated in my chair the entire time. The old dude at church got mad because he observed HER reactions.

    Like


  302. Polymath,

    Situation at home is stable. The game dynamic is very favorable. To put it bluntly, wife and I have IQ deficit of about 30 points. There is much that I just cannot share with her.

    I’m okay with the situation now. What concerns me is 10 years from now, when both church girl and my wife have hit the wall. To my thinking right now, its a no brainer. I’d like to spend my ugly years with church girl. I’m happy spending banging years with hot wife.

    I realize this is selfish, shallow, all that shit. I’m just trying to be real here.

    Like


  303. Sidewinder,

    I feel as though you have missed my point.

    I talked with the girl on the phone today. We are meeting tomorrow morning for a walk. She could think I’m a total creeper, she could be in to me. I don’t know. I’m going to talk to her and listen to what she has to say.

    Dude, your facebook message to her was something along the lines of “I want to talk to you before Sunday,” right? If some guy from church had emailed this to me, I would think that perhaps he had some sort of urgent church-related problem, e.g., his cousin was dying of cancer and maybe he wanted me to pray for him. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Even if she is totally infatuated with me, and even if the chicks at starbucks wanted to double-time me, that does not change that I am a through and through beta, 30 something, lawyer. I do not mean to sound over-important. I only post this stuff because I am looking for help.

    I don’t think you sound over-important, so good for you. However, I also do not think that church girl is infatuated with you, nor do I think the chicks at Starbucks wanted to “double-time” you. Rather, I think church girl probably thinks you are a normal guy from church and has absolutely no sexual feelings toward you whatsoever.

    I think the girls from Starbucks were making polite conversation with a random 30-something lawyer who happened to say hi to them.

    I do not think any of these women want to jump your bones. I think they probably all forgot about you the second you walked out of their line of vision, or perhaps even before, because your interaction with them was so fucking boring and non-sexual.

    Sorry, had to be said.

    Like


  304. P.S. You’re meeting for a “walk”? Where are you? Is this Little House on the Prarie? Are you going to walk down to the old mill and then pick up some eggs?

    Like


  305. *Prairie

    Like


  306. Mercury,

    I’m not arguing with you. I think these things myself. I think your posts reveal a slightly negative outlook, however. Based on my wife and history with girls, I’m a decent looking guy. And while I may not convey these interactions in a very detailed manner, you have to trust on some level that as a decent looking guy, I’ve had the experience to perceive girls and how they express interest.

    While I consider all the negative possibilities/probabilities that you mention with church girl, the most revealing fact is that this other guy made a scene by staring at me. I can assure you I did not hallucinate this. And in talking with her Sunday, I remained seated and did nothing excitable that would have caught his attention. I noticed her IOIs, and I think he did too. As objective as I can be about it, I think this is what happened. I could be wrong, but why would you assume that I’m delusional?

    Like


  307. Sidewinder,

    If your looks are in fact so incredible that they’re a large part of your game, let’s see a pic.

    I believe that the guy totally stared at you in church. That said, I also think that you are probably reading a little too much into it. And by a little, I mean a lot. And by a lot, I mean a whole fucking shit-ton.

    Yeah. Even if he was totally staring at you like “That’s MY woman,” hell, even if he comes up to you and says, “That’s MY WOMAN BIZNATCH!!!!!1111one1,” all that says is that he’s as insane as you are. It doesn’t mean she likes you, it means you are both having some stupid cockfight over a girl who probably doesn’t even think about you, who is married to someone else, when both of you are married.

    Hmm, I can think of better things to do with your time. Like, go game your wife. Or start a small business. Or stare at a wall! All of these are much nobler and useful endeavors than fighting over a married girl with some guy who is not even married to her.

    Like


  308. Mercury,

    I think your analysis is clouded by your judgment of me as a complete asshole. I respect your assessment. But am I really doing something wrong in talking with this girl tomorrow? I mean, I picked the faggiest thing I could think of as far as a meet up. And the only reason I set this awkward meeting up was to avoid a cock-fight scene with this other dude on Sunday. What am I doing wrong?

    Like


  309. Sidewinder,

    Again, you read me incorrectly. I don’t think you’re an asshole. Very far from it.

    I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong by talking to the girl tomorrow. However, I also do not think you’re doing anything “right,” in the context of game, per se. Basically, this: You are not doing anything wrong because she is a girl from church and you are meeting her in a faggy (you said it yourself) and neutral setting. So whatever. But also you are NOT gaming her or even increasing her “gina tingles” one bit. Ugh, how do I put it plainly?

    She’s just not that into you.

    I really don’t think you’re an asshole. I think you’re giving examples of normal, everyday conversations that 99.999999% of people have all the time. They are not sexual. They are not full of tension. They are boring, mundane, and everyday.

    Let me give you an example of a conversation I had with a girl the other day:

    Setting: we are in the gym. She is tall, blonde, mid-twenties, I’d say a 7.5.

    Me: Hey, are you using this bench?

    Her: No, go ahead.

    Me: Thanks

    Her: I really like that shirt, did you buy it at the store here?

    Me: No…I think I got it in New York.

    Her: Oh, cool.

    END CONVO.

    Now, the question is this: why did I not post this here for everyone to analyze?

    The answer: because it’s a boring conversation that happens all the time and connotes absolutely no sexual interest on either side.

    Like


  310. Mercury,

    Good. Then we can agree to agree. I am not a PUA or “game” guy. I have tried to incorporate game principles into my non-verbal, and as objectively as I can be, I think it has been beneficial. But I do not run “game.” I have never taken it beyond flirty banter so I don’t have any real way of knowing whether my minimal adjustments would result in successful numbers closes or better.

    The facts today are this: I facebooked this church girl out of the blue and she responded. She then texted me 3 or 4 times. And then she called me. After all of this, she still is willing (or heaven forbid “wants”) to meet up tomorrow morning for a fag walk. I don’t know what she thinks about me, but getting a girl to meet in less than 24 hours is a sign that she doesn’t think I’m a complete creeper asshole.

    The unintended “urgency” of my message was unfortunate. I should have sent the message 3 days ago. While it picqued her interest, I think our subsequent phone conversation may have been a let down. For whatever reason, she still wants to meet up. I don’t know what to tell you. I really don’t know. The only one who is more skeptical of my “game” abilities than you is me.

    Like


  311. @Morsellaux
    “what, non? why non? c’mon!
    I don’t do voodoo! ;-)”

    yes you do! It’s written all over your ‘new” face! haha!! can’t you see it across your forehead!!!??? lol!!!

    Like


  312. on September 18, 2010 at 4:21 am gunslingergregi

    ””””””’Jerry
    @Polymath @Gunslinger

    You guys aren’t being men tonight if you let a fem and an insecure young guy get away with their overly hostile ad-hominem attack on Sidewinder, a guy who’s trying to improve himself.
    ””””””””’

    No I think I am being a man and trying to get him to man up rather than bitch up.

    You have to realize if you start playing that eventually you will meet a chick who when she finds out your married it will be like chick crack.

    I am just trying to make sidewinder with eyes wide open rather than trying to fool self and doing something against what he says he intends to do.

    Hate to have him break a vow that he didn’t intend to which will probably really fuck his head up and his dealings with his wife unless he talks to her about them or at least owns to himself what he is doing.

    ”””’@Polymath and @Gunslinger: The issue here is the childish hostility coming out of nowhere. In real life you would stand up to fems and insecure kids who would launch an arrogant ad hominem attack on a guy you were having a grown up conversation with.””””””

    I am defending him.

    Defending him from himself.

    ”””””’I’m okay with the situation now. What concerns me is 10 years from now, when both church girl and my wife have hit the wall. To my thinking right now, its a no brainer. I’d like to spend my ugly years with church girl. I’m happy spending banging years with hot wife. ””””

    Yea see now it comes out cool.

    Yea why I don’t agree with the one wife for life or throwaway option and get new.

    There is a diference between people maybe sometimes it takes two to get what you need.

    Everyone has diferent skillsets.
    How many companies only stay with 2 employees there whole existance.

    Like


  313. Sidewinder,

    You’ve made your problem clearer, you’re stuck in a marriage to a hot woman who is no intellectual match for you and worry about what happens when she hits the wall.

    Short answer is if you are much smarter than she is it should be easier for you to game her and keep her happy, so figure out how and do it.

    That is separate from your situation with church girl — if you need intellectual companionship that is understandable, but don’t start a fire you can’t put out. If you apply LTR game properly your marriage will be much happier for both of you and you will be able to have great friendships with other women where you are in control of how far they escalate.

    Otherwise, in situations where you are dealing with infatuation like you display now, you will not be in control of how far they escalate, so be warned.

    Like


  314. @Gunslinger

    I wasn’t referring to the respectful discussion you and Polymath had with Sidewinder.

    I was referring to the disrespectful attacks on Sidewinder from Tinderbox and Mercury, at least until he disarmed them with his Christian humility. And while Tinderbox just doesn’t seem to like the idea of 35 year old businessmen taking the young women he wants, Mercury tried to bring Sidewinder’s self esteem down to his or her own level with the BS about how, if a woman says “Hi, I like your shirt” or “Hi, I like your briefcase”, it means nothing and shouldn’t be acted upon or else your bothering women.

    I’ll explain how the latter attitude comes from having a feminist mother like mine was.

    Like


  315. In other words the cognitive dissonance some would-be PUAs have between their feminist upbringing and the fact, which they learn at least by age 30, that women are not equal to men and women are not straightforward like men are.

    Take any hint you need to approach and close.

    Like


  316. For some time now, speculation has abounded regarding Cannon “Brotha From Anotha Motha” Canon. How is it that a white boy par excellence could be so…down?

    At long last, the truth regading his formative years and subsequent devlopment into the character we know and love has been revealed. Here is the footage:

    Like


  317. @Sidewinder

    What did she say on the phone? It’s otherwise a plus that she phoned so fast. You do better than I expect when you live blog.

    CH and most PUA leaders say that going for a walk is much better than going to a restaurant, especially on a first meeting. It has huge advantages besides saving $20-50. It means the woman trusts the man, it means that there is a “relationship” there (even if church girl seeks the meeting to end the relationship) and it provides single people the opportunity to hold hands, a major kino move.

    Anyone who calls walking “faggy” is showing sour grapes because that person would have seen tons of other men walking with 9s and 10s in parks and at the beach. It may also be a poser move that says “I do one night stands only cuz I’m cool dude”.

    Like


  318. I lost most of my 20s partly because my own feminist mother taught me to ignore IOIs from women (I also lost a lot of dating time because I was in the military). But its also the US culture and even other PUAs who strive to tell men not to believe their own senses when women provide IOIs (I explained above how the PUA movement was largely feminist-friendly until he took over).

    There are two reasons why feminists try to ruin their own sons and the culture tries to fuck men up:

    1) They tell the sons not to bother women. They say “just because the woman at the gym said she liked your shirt, that doesn’t give you an excuse to interrupt her workout”.

    2) Worse, they tell their sons that women are like men and will be straightforward about liking a man, wanting to date him, wanting to kiss him and wanting to fuck him. They tell the son that cool women will instigate. Otherwise the man should ask at each stage…but he shouldn’t bother a stranger who hasn’t directly told him “I like your body” instead of “I like your briefcase”.

    I’ve never figured out why some would-be PUAs get so hot under the collar about repeating what their mom said by telling other men on these forums that they should *not* assume any woman likes them because the woman said something “I like your shirt”.

    That is the opposite of the message of this blog (which is to even assume a woman likes you when she’s sitting with her back toward you) and I’m surprised he didn’t say anything last night. 😉

    I remember about 8 months ago I was explaining in detail on this forum some of the ways my feminist upbringing caused me to react to women in my early 20s.

    I said I was working at a hotel when I was 21 during spring break and gorgeous young women were sometimes pushing a second key back to me with a wink and a smile. They weren’t saying “I don’t need this and don’t want to waste plastic”. I was there and I even knew at the time that they didn’t mean that they didn’t need that second key (I didn’t do anything because I remembered my mom telling me that women will tell me directly if they want to have sex, not just give big hints).

    Anyway, this asshole commenter who thought he was God’s gift to PUA-dom, came out of the blue and wrote in a really snarky way that “They were just giving you the extra key back because they didn’t need it”.

    Well no, he wasn’t there and probably knows nothing about what Spring Break was like in the 80s.

    The guy was clearly exhibiting the mental problem some would-be PUAs have about women not being equal to men and straightforward like men are. These apparent equalists don’t want to accept that IOIs are the best hints most men will ever get to propel them into gaming a woman.

    Like


  319. Walk was a success. She arrived very nervous and uncomfortable, and by the time we left she was laughing, visibly more comfortable and she said that she hopes I continue to talk with her at church “or like this.”

    But I don’t want to give the impression that I sensed sexual interest. I sensed more sexual playfulness with our interaction at church…she was much less comfortable this morning. Its difficult to identify the cause, however. She was hanging out alone with a married man, basically on a date, talking about an uncomfortable situation involving another man (among other topics). Given the context, I think she would act the same whether she was in love with me, or whether she was afraid of me as a creeper stalker.

    Like


  320. (cont.)

    The one characteristic about her that was evident is that she was totally passive. I asked the questions, she went on and on. She asked some questions, but only followup questions connected to topics I brought up. I think this passivity was related to her uncertainty and discomfort with the meet up. I don’t think she knew what to expect, and she is naturally a nervous person, so again, I can’t read into it one way or the other. At times I wondered if she was just trying to be polite and was “doing her time” with me until she could get the hell away. But as she became more comfortable, she continued to prefer to defer to my lead. Can’t read into it one way or the other. This is consistent with her previous observed behavior.

    There was absolutely no mention of wives, husbands, or kids.

    Like


  321. I said I was working at a hotel when I was 21 during spring break and gorgeous young women were sometimes pushing a second key back to me with a wink and a smile. They weren’t saying “I don’t need this and don’t want to waste plastic”. I was there and I even knew at the time that they didn’t mean that they didn’t need that second key (I didn’t do anything because I remembered my mom telling me that women will tell me directly if they want to have sex, not just give big hints).

    That goes well beyond “feminist brainwashed” and into the range of “so colossally stupid i’m surprised you made it this far without winning a darwin award”.
    Did your mommy also make sure to tell you: Pants, then shoes?

    Like


  322. Jerry, I completely agree with your comments regarding Mercury. At first I thought he was just being a dick, but after about his 5th post, it became apparent that he has WAY too negative interpretation of women signals.

    I think the naysayers miss the forest for the trees. It isn’t whether she touches her hair with her left hand or right hand, and it isn’t if she looks down or to the right or to the left…you need to look at the BIG picture. Is a girl spending time with you? Is a girl expressing interest in having a continuing conversation? Is the girl a total stranger that initiates a convo with you?

    I think the Editor is right, girls do not do social things on accident like men do. They are aware of every touch, every look, every comment. If she’s giving you her time of day and she hasn’t given you an indication that you are disqualified, you are in play.

    Like


  323. It’s sad when a guy posts on a blog about women and game that he wants help to get with a girl and he gets attacked for it. Pathetic.

    Like


  324. Sidewinder,

    I’m glad the walk was successful. Again, I think that perhaps she thought you had something important to talk about, as you were contacting her outside of church. Her passive-ness might have simply been polite-ness. In all honesty, it probably was. I’m glad that you at least have the social skills to get her to laugh, but please realize that making someone laugh DOES NOT MEAN sexual interest. Unlike what Jerry is trying to tell you.

    Yes, while female signals are subtler than male signals, this DOES NOT MEAN that you should read every glance as an invitation to jump into their bed. This will get you arrested, and very fast.

    I really do not think you’re an asshole. If anything, I think you are so tame as to be a non-threat. This may be how women see you. It also may not.

    Also, if you want to spend the rest of your days with church girl, you’re setting yourself up for failure, man. She’s married. You’re married. As far as we know, you don’t want to break up your marriage. WTF is going on here? This is not okay.

    If you’re looking for intellectual companionship, perhaps you should be finding a guy friend. Really, this relationship doesn’t look like it’s going to end up anywhere good.

    Jerry,

    Anyone who calls walking “faggy” is showing sour grapes because that person would have seen tons of other men walking with 9s and 10s in parks and at the beach.

    Jerry, Sidewinder himself said that the walk was “faggy”. GTFOI.

    deliberately left out the fact that 19 year old Starbucks Girl actually did open the guy, who is apparently a well-built 35 year old guy with a buzzcut…and that counts for a lot.

    Jerry, Sidewinder himself said that he started that conversation — one of the girls looked at him and he said “Hi.”

    Please, reading comprehension everyone.

    Like


  325. Cee,

    It doesn’t seem like Sidewinder knows what he wants. He doesn’t want to “get” with her, he wants to be her friend (we can only assume).

    *He doesn’t want to break up his marriage, for the kids
    *He wants to spend his “hot” years with his wife
    *His wife is hot
    *He and his wife are on different intellectual planes
    *He likes this girl, a lot

    The question is this — if his intentions with this girl are 110% innocent…

    Why the fuck doesn’t he just man up and tell his wife?

    Like


  326. Sidewinder,

    it became apparent that he has WAY too negative interpretation of women signals.

    Sidewinder, here are some good female signals:

    *She touches you while she’s talking to you
    *She stays for a conversation that is not going anywhere
    *She gives you opportunities to ask her out
    *She hints at how she would love to go somewhere or do something, possibly with you
    *She holds your gaze for longer than is socially acceptable

    Here are some female signals that, if you think they are IOI’s, you JUST MIGHT BE READING TOO MUCH INTO THEM:

    *She looks at you once
    *You ask her for directions, and she gives you directions
    *She looks like she wants to run away
    *You say her name, and she responds (dude, all this shows is that she knows her name. How awkward would it be if you had called her name and she had just stood there, apart from you? Not rocket science)
    *She looks uncomfortable

    Like


  327. Mercury said:

    “It doesn’t seem like Sidewinder knows what he wants. He doesn’t want to “get” with her, he wants to be her friend (we can only assume).

    *He doesn’t want to break up his marriage, for the kids
    *He wants to spend his “hot” years with his wife
    *His wife is hot
    *He and his wife are on different intellectual planes
    *He likes this girl, a lot

    The question is this — if his intentions with this girl are 110% innocent…

    Why the fuck doesn’t he just man up and tell his wife?”

    Oh. That’s what I get for jumping into something without reading all the background information. I apologize.

    Sidewinder said:

    “Walk was a success. She arrived very nervous and uncomfortable, and by the time we left she was laughing, visibly more comfortable and she said that she hopes I continue to talk with her at church “or like this.””

    I’m no expert, I can only go by what I have experienced, but I think that she likes you. Women sometimes get nervous around guys they like. Keep in mind that church girls are the biggest freaks. I bet if you keep this up, you can fuck her.

    Like


  328. Cee,

    Thanks for the support. I don’t know if this girl and my particular situation are applicable to game concepts and theory. I think there have been IOIs in portions of interaction, but given my married with kids status, and the fact that I’m older, professional, (she’s 25), I think the situation is so tense (and generally f’d up) that I don’t see anything happening. Regardless of what tingles she may or may not have for me, she is very intelligent and conscientious, and she just wouldn’t cross that line.

    That being said, I get the sense that her marriage is on the ropes. She is just so nervous and afraid of putting herself out there that any messing around would have to be initiated, clearly and assertively, by me. And even then, I don’t think she’s going to go with something like that until she is assured that I’m committed to being with her. Not that she likes me that much; its just my read on what kind of girl she is.

    It’s a f’d up situation, and I’m going to let it lie for now. I accomplished my goals for today: we had a nice talk, she laughed and was more comfortable around me, and she said she would be excited about collaborating on my songwriting. I’ll get some song ideas to her next week. The only way this escalates (in the short term) is if she contacts me and wants to talk again. But with her, even if she wants to talk with me again more than anything, I don’t see her making that move on her own. This is pure speculation, but I imagine she’s run this scenario by her female advisors, and has made the decision that she is not initiating anything.

    Like


  329. Sidewinder,

    You’re going to end up fucking her. Collaborating on songwriting? That’s how she’s setting it up, women are indirect. Just don’t do or say anything stupid.

    Like


  330. I was totally wrong. Church girl came right over and sat next to me after church and we talked music for about 10 minutes. It was so deliberate that I could tell it was not a spontaneous decision. It kind of made me uncomfortable. I’m glad my wife wasn’t there.

    I really think she was just trying to be nice. She realized that our first get together yesterday was naturally awkward, so she wanted to send the message that she thinks I’m a good guy and she’s legitimately interested in being friends. So much so, now she wants to be facebook friends and has sent a request.

    If I confirm her request, she immediately will appear on my wife’s radar. This may be good because it gives me a legitimate opening to tell my wife about talking to her at churh today and I can selectively not mention the walk yesterday.

    But I feel like she’s backing me into a corner I don’t want to be in. I’d rather there be distance and her be aware of my interest in her, than faking some LJBF thing involving spouses. And the opposite scenario would be worse: I don’t want to initiate a “friendship” that is a slippery slope into infidelity and the end of my marriage. Best case scenario is she has no sexual interest in me and wants to be friends, but then I’m the same as the pathetic old professor with the secret crush.

    I just want things to be cool. We now have ways to get ahold of each other. I will send her song ideas. She can get back with me when or if she wants.

    My thinking is that I will tell my wife about talking with her at church today re music ideas, but that I will ignore her friend request. Church girl needs to recognize that while I will be appropriate around her and I do like her, I am not safe enough to be her best friend. If she has other ideas, I’m not interested in getting over my head into something that I will be unable to control down the road.

    Any ideas on how to send this message? “I like you. I’d like to know you better and work on music together. I do not want to hang out with you and your husband and I do not want to have you over for dinner with my family. I will not cross any lines, but at the same time I will not deny my feelings for you, so it would probably be appropriate to keep a level of distance.” If I told her this straightforward, I imagine she would never talk to me again.

    Like


  331. Sidewinder,

    Of course she isn’t going to be all over you in church. It’s church, and she’s a church girl. Don’t send that message, just wait and see what happens when you hang out. Worse case scenario is that you don’t sleep with her. Remember that women are indirect, if she wants to screw you she won’t come out and say it unless she is ugly/desperate.

    Like


  332. Cee,

    I tried to side-step her friend request by telling her i’d think about it and making a joke. I don’t know if this is good or bad for me as far as my alpha-status, but its probably a decent indirect way of telling her that I see my relationship with her as something that is not going to 100% out in the open.

    She will think: why won’t he accept my friend request? He’s the one that sent me the facebook message and asked to hang out. He’s the one that said he wanted to be friends and now he won’t be facebook friends?

    [hamster wheel will spin a little]

    her: Aha! He doesn’t want his wife to know about me. He isn’t telling his wife that he’s talking with me.

    At that point, she’ll either be excited/flattered by this possibility, or she will write me off as a sleaze.

    The more I think about it, this facebook issue is a good way for me to indirectly let her know that I’m not going to be her gay friend, or her husband’s new buddy. This is probably a good thing.

    Like


  333. sidewinder–if you saw your wife having this same interchange on a website, how would you feel?

    Like


  334. Cee,

    No, the situation at church was the opposite. She came right over, all her body language was focused right at me, and we talked for a pretty long while. If my wife would have seen that, I would definitely have some ‘splainin’ to do. It was making me a little self-conscious and I was keeping a look out for that old dude that was giving me bad looks. I think he had left already however.

    I can’t have her talking to me like that at church when my wife is there. In fairness to her, she could see that my wife wasn’t there today, so maybe she would know to tone it down. But even with me giving my wife the heads up about her, she would have taken note of that convo big time. I need some way to softly suggest to church girl to keep it polite, short, with maximum plausible deniability.

    Like


  335. Dana,

    Honestly, I might feel relieved. I wouldn’t feel like a terrible person. I might broach the open marriage subject with her, while telling her that the #1 priority is to keep the home together for the kids.

    If you read my posts, you will see that I am trying to confront this and deal with it in a positive way. I am afraid I may of done too good a job of breaking the ice yesterday and this girl is getting too close too fast. I would like to take a few quiet steps back, without hurting anyone’s feelings or suggesting that I want to sleep with her.

    This may just be an impossible cluster that I have created. But I couldn’t take dealing with this in my head anymore and wanted to sort this out one way or the other. My attraction to this girl is what it is, I would have never chosen it.

    Like


  336. Sidewinder said:

    “No, the situation at church was the opposite. She came right over, all her body language was focused right at me, and we talked for a pretty long while. If my wife would have seen that, I would definitely have some ‘splainin’ to do. It was making me a little self-conscious and I was keeping a look out for that old dude that was giving me bad looks. I think he had left already however.”

    You hang out with her, she’s going to fuck you.

    You push her away, she is going to come after you more and want to fuck you even more.

    That old dude could be fucking her and he doesn’t want you in on his secret slut, unless he is an orbiter or a relative.

    Dana has a good point, as usual.

    Like


  337. Cee,

    I don’t agree with you. Keep in mind, this girl is mensa smart. So if she wants to screw, how is she going to pull it off?

    Probably the worst thing she could do is get my wife’s attention. Had my wife been at church, she would have interrupted the convo and would have forced an introduction. Then I would have been subjected to several uncomfortable questions on the ride home. If she wants to get something going with me, her big move at church today would not have been a good one.

    But it would have been a good move to force LJBF. While she came right over with positive body language, it was all appropriate conversation. She said nothing suggestive and acted as if we were good friends. She may have even been hoping wife was around to force the introduction and the LJBF relationship.

    And then you add the facebook friend request: what was the point of that? She already has my phone number and email address…i think the point was to make the relationship transparent and in the open. She wants my wife to know, she wants her husband to know. She wants my penis to know that it is SOL.

    Like


  338. @Sidewinder

    You did so well earlier this weekend. Don’t make her look stupid.

    And do not tell you wife anything about what happened this weekend. Remember the film “Sex and the City 1” where the Beta husband admitted to fucking the nanny and a nuclear war resulted. He would have been Alpha if he’d just shut up and either not screwed around again or continued to do so.

    Now I’m going to take a page out of the Mercury Playbook and say that you may be reading too much into what was otherwise an impressive way to take charge of your environment. An Alpha marred male will still have the young women orbiting around him because they like him and wish they were the lucky wife. You’ve begun building your virtual harem of accolytes.

    Women don’t need to be fucked or even kissed in order to be enthralled to be with a guy (although many married women lose interest when a guy they want to cheat with decides to “do the right thing” and not act).

    I tried to get on a computer fast enough to say “Don’t send that message yet” and Cee beat me to it but you still sent that refusal without waiting for feedback.

    Now I’m not one to talk because ZERO of my girlfriends are my friends on Facebook or other social networks (they must not know about each other)…but you’re in a different situation. You should be able to seek Facebook connections today with about 12 people including some other churchmembers and become friends with them all at once and then immediately delete the 12 announcements from your Wall.

    Refusing a Facebook connection can be traumatizing to another person. Sad but true. Especially if you directly refuse instead of simply clicking Ignore.

    Don’t make her look stupid.

    And frankly, I’m shocked by all the moralizing going on at this particular blog thread…some wanted you to remain in the schizophrenic position you were in before you finally got some nerve to take control of your environment on Friday. I’m glad I did my part to convince you to do what you did on Friday and Saturday.

    A main theme of this blog is that a man *should* be having multiple relationships, even if they don’t involve intercourse, on any number of women who may or may not know about the activity not involving them.

    I guess there’s a gray area for married men who’s wives are still hot…I’m not interested in everyone arguing about that.

    But remember that most here say that Marriage is a Mistake.

    Still…many men just fall into marriage anyway. I’m practically married to my main local girlfriend – if she ever catches me on out with another there will be drama, but it won’t end the relationship.

    I reported a few weeks ago how I was waiting for a date thinking my girlfriend was home in bed with a cold…and suddenly my girlfriend appeared dressed to the nines heading for the opera. I immediately said I was just hanging out getting some fresh air, went to the opera with her and stood the other woman up.

    Keep a straight face. Never admit to doing anything “wrong”.

    Like


  339. @Sidewinder

    I can see what you mean by saying the Facebook connection would be like accepting her request that you be LJBF.

    But you’d quickly know a lot about her life and get a feel for how much she really loves her man.

    Then again, if you have less than 80 friends, she would be on your wife’s radar.

    I may have said you replied to her too soon, but I’m not disagreeing with your logic at all.

    Like


  340. But my gut feeling is to make 12 Facebook requests today, preferably to other church members as well and accept her’s and a bunch of others tomorrow and then erase the wall anouncements.

    Make sure you switch your privacy settings so your friends do not see announcements on their walls of every little thing you do on Facebook (my setting are to this now and I frankly don’t know how to change them – don’t have to yet).

    Facebook friends can still have private lives together that don’t get discussed on the walls.

    Like


  341. Jerry,

    My hope is to kill two birds with one stone. I’m going to put her on my wife’s radar by telling wife that I talked to her today at church about working on songs. But I’m not going to give church girl the satisfaction of knowing this.

    I will politely put off her facebook request and let her think about what that might mean. It could scare her off, but that isn’t the worst outcome. It could also turn her on, which may lead to a more frank discussion in the future where boundaries can be clearly delineated.

    I think its a wise move from a game perspective. Its somewhat of a curve ball and I’m sure she will discuss this unexpected response with her female advisor(s). It adds some mystery. Better she think I’m a slime ball with initiative than a beta willing to take LJBF or anything she’ll give me.

    Like


  342. I don’t see any reason to tell your wife about this. I don’t tell my main local gf *anything* about my other friendships with women. Women don’t want to know.

    CR could do a big post on Friendship Connecting. Is it LJBF or not. I say it isn’t. But I haven’t dated anyone on Facebook.

    I just have western European women as Facebook friends and I see that one or two whom I’d like to fuck just love their husband or boyfriend to death. Its hard to see their beach pictures with them kissing their husbands or current boyfriend, but at least I know what my chances would be with them if I ever flew to their countries on a business trip.

    Offline, their lives can be a different story than the one presented on Facebook.

    You will learn better who Church Girl is and where her mind is at if you connect. If she’s really Mensa smart, you will want to see what she’s been writing on her walls.

    Like


  343. Jerry,

    That’s a good point. It would be excellent intelligence gathering. But I don’t want her to have access to my walls, pictures of my wife and kids, etc…

    I haven’t heard back from her after I politely put off her facebook request. I’ll post what she says.

    While she seemed to have a plan to talk to me after church, the facebook thing was pretty off the cuff. I asked her for her email address and she said “here, let me send you a connect on facebook. it has all my contact info.” She may need to stop and think about it before she gets it. Her next response may be helpful.

    Like


  344. Yeah, I guess I was thinking about it from the POV that my page doesn’t glorify any woman, especially not a wife. If my page was centered around a wife and kids, I’d have to give out a false name to other women and build a separate Facebook identity for that alter ego. 😉

    I have made zero Facebook posts of anything regarding any girlfriend, which means that any new potential girlfriend could look at my page and not get scared off.

    The main gfs are not western. I’m sure a western woman would instantly know something’s going on if her man hasn’t changed his status to Currently Involved With Blank Blankston.

    It must be so Beta for men to allow themselves to be pressured into having such a status on Facebook.

    Does anyone living in the west with an MLTR have any ideas on how to handle Facebook when each girlfriend would expect to connect and carry out the relationship on Facebook in front of your other girlfriends?

    Like


  345. s’winder:
    i feel like i’m watching a slo-mo train wreck. you figure out which party/ies is/are the train.

    the first thing you need to sort out here is whether or not you actually want to stick your cock in this girl.
    ambivalence is for chix, just MAKE A FUCKING DECISION about this issue, and stick with it; right now 1/2 your posts are saying you want to fuck, and the other 1/2 are saying that you don’t.

    let’s get something straight:
    you are obviously incapable of having a purely sexual affair with this chick (my god, you’re already saying you want to grow old with her after your wife hits the wall — oneitis anyone?)
    therefore…
    you need to
    (a) shit (= you’re actually trying to fuck her)
    or
    (b) get off the pot (= you just want to be her friend)

    you have to shit or get off the pot, else you’ll get hemorrhoids. similarly, you DO NOT have the option of “i don’t wanna just be freinds, i want to keep her enthralled for 15 years until my kids are grown and then i can steal her away to be mine”. this is just not an option; you’ll get relatioship hemorrhoids, as it were.

    once you MAKE A FUCKING DECISION things will be a lot clearer.
    if you decide you want to be her friend, then you be her freind, and accept her offer, and all is jolly;
    if you decide you want to get in her skirt — whatever the chances of that — then you don’t accept the offer.

    finally, wtf with the “my wife would cut my balls off on the way home if she talked to me”?
    have you not socialized with a woman between your wedding day and today?

    Like


  346. and you guys cant see that sidewinders tale is the exact reason why women cheat and wont be “owned” today? think about it–hes going to fuck over his wife of his youth when she “hits the wall? why should she invest an iota of fidelity or obedience in him?

    you guys better think about what you all want from “society”, because a restoration of female honor will entail a restoration of male continence as well

    Like


  347. Manyacapo,

    Thank you for your advice. It feels like a slo-mo train wreck. I think my confusion comes from the different definitions of what I “want.”

    Sure, in my idealized world, I want to f this girl and I want to pursue a LTR with her. Those are my true “wants” that I cannot deny.

    In the real world, my wife and kids are the most important thing to me. Because of the risks to their well-being, I do not want to f this girl or get involved in a LTR with her. This is also a true “want.”

    I also am fascinated by her musical talent and intelligence. I want to know everything about her and how she thinks. This is a true want.

    The issue is more complicated than to try to f her or to friend her. If I break it down to 2 choices like that, either way I will be doing something that i do not want to be doing, one way or the other. I am trying to find a way to stay true to my idealized wants, while maintaining my real world responsibilities.

    Exactly how to do this requires more clarity from her. If she’s already suspicious of me and pushing hard for a LJBF, then that makes it easy. If she is ambiguous or hinting that there’s more interest there, than I need to see if I can get to the point with her that we can discuss the situation openly, and I’ll explain to her my priorities, and see if we can continue a non-physical relationship. And maybe she’ll understand my situation and want to be my mistress. That’s still too risky for me with my current thinking, but in time, who knows? And maybe I’ll get to know her better and not be as attracted to her.

    But if I had to choose one of your paths right now, I would pick the friend path. That doesn’t mean I still don’t wonder whether she’s interested, or try to conduct myself in an alpha-like fashion to hopefully score some tingles with her. Hell, if she f’s her husband tonight and thinks of me, that would be awesome.

    Like


  348. Dana,

    Why don’t you tell me what i should be doing. Tell me exactly what I should be doing. And keep in mind that I can’t lie to myself like a self-delusional woman. I can choose my behavior, however, so tell me what I”m doing wrong and what I should be doing. I’m getting sick of your moralizing bullshit

    Like


  349. Sidewinder

    You are an online clone in a lot of ways of the recently departed “David Alexander”. Are you an artful troll or just a hopelessly immature personality? Is there a reason for any of us to care?
    Er, no.

    Like


  350. Manyacapo,

    Re: socializing at church.

    Last week’s interaction would have been acceptable and my wife my have even caught the tail end of it. Her behavior this week was much more intense, and appeared to be premeditated. She came over, sat down next to me and talked to me as if I was her best friend. I had to get up and leave her after about 10 minutes. She didnt say anything suggestive, and was not as flirty as last week, but that’s because we talked for a couple hours yesterday. It really caught me off guard. She had been so passive and nervous up to today. If my wife would have seen that, she may not have gotten mad immediately, but like I said, she would have asked a number of questions and would have her eyes wide open from then on out.

    Like


  351. Rum,

    Thank you for the completely worthless comment. I don’t expect anyone to care. To the extent anyone is interested, I appreciate the feedback and I respond to those that are trying to help me out.

    Like


  352. im making a meta point about what i think is one of the one of root causes of modern female infidelity and refusal to submit in marriage or give up the cock carousel while they have the chance. i didnt “moralize” once, i dont give a flying fuck about “morality”. its not “immoral” what you are doing–it is simply introducing literal poison into your life that will likely blow up in your face harming your children, wife, you and the girl your trying to bag . go for it, not my life, but if you wreck your marriage and youre being dragged through a “divorce 2.0” don’t go to mra sites crying that your wife is a bitch who took all your money and doesnt let you see your kids, because you are doing EXACTLY what led to that state of affairs coming into being as the pendulum swinging wayyyy too far in the other direction . you think anyone encouraging you gives a damn if your life is ruined?

    Like


  353. Dana,

    I would like to avoid all of those things. However I am genuinely interested in this other girl. There are a lot hotter girls here, so its not like I can’t keep myself from banging her. I’m seriously asking you, what do you think I should do?

    Like


  354. Sidewinder

    You simply cannot be “interested in this other girl”. Think of this as a fragmentation grenade tied to your neck. If you pull the pin certain very unpleasant things will happen as surely as the next sunrise. Why waste time analyzing this situation? It is just dumbness squared..

    Like


  355. Sidewinder said:

    “Sure, in my idealized world, I want to f this girl and I want to pursue a LTR with her. Those are my true “wants” that I cannot deny.

    In the real world, my wife and kids are the most important thing to me. Because of the risks to their well-being, I do not want to f this girl or get involved in a LTR with her. This is also a true “want.””

    Judging by your second comment, I don’t think you should go through with it, because (don’t take this the wrong way, no insult or anything) you care too much about your family and you have doubts. It’s one thing to have a frame with your wife from the beginning that you will see other women and she goes along with it, but you are married with kids already (not sure how long you have been married). Playing the game is fun, but you have to know your limitations, you have children to think about. Plus women get really nasty in divorce court. Once again, Dana has a good point.

    With that being said, I shouldn’t answer this but,

    “I don’t agree with you. Keep in mind, this girl is mensa smart. So if she wants to screw, how is she going to pull it off?”

    Dude, this is a classic woman sex setup. She already said she wants to work on music with you right? You work on music with her for awhile out in the open and then one day she will set it up somehow so it’s just you two and then…

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  356. i am the wrong person to ask, my husband and i are almost modern victorians with regard to allowing anything that smacks of poison to our marriage in our lives

    you should do whatever you can take the consequences of. we all want to do things we arent supposed to do, so what? imagine your wife saying “but i REALLY REALLY want to eat everything in sight and gain 150 lbs”, is that ok?

    Like


  357. Cee,

    Yeah, but I was the one that asked for her help with the music. What was she going to say? (although she was pretty enthusiastic about it today)

    Back on point, how do you suggest I tone this down a notch or two? Is there a way I can do it that keeps her on the line if the timing were to ever become right? I don’t think I can just drop her. I mean, I see her on Sundays and she did meet me outside of church to talk at my invitation. I think I need to at least be friendly.

    Like


  358. Sidewinder said:

    “Back on point, how do you suggest I tone this down a notch or two?”

    I don’t think you can tone it down for later. If you flee from her, it’s going to make her want you even more. If you give her the wife and kids reason, it may romanticize this whole thing and she will want you more and it will get worse. If you ask me, I would cut her off. How would I do it?

    I don’t know.

    It would be hard to just blow her off because you all go to the same church and something might get back to your wife, you can’t just cut it clean.

    Damn, Sidewinder. You got yourself in some shit.

    Like


  359. I’ve been keeping track of your interesting dilemma. What is happening in your life right now besides this exciting, tantalizing quandary? What is personally happening to you as a man at this time? What kind of stage in life are you? How is your career going? etc……..

    Why I ask is because, infidelity or the thoughts of such transgressions are always distractions from what we really DON’T and AVOID to face and deal with in other parts of our life…I suspect the slow eroding intimacy between you and your wife. Only speculation.

    Answer those questions and others for yourself and perhaps as you redirect you energy towards what you might be avoiding, you might begin to gain some perspective with the whole situation.

    Like


  360. Sidewinder,

    You want to feel alive!

    Like


  361. Cee, isn’t that putting the cart before the house to a large extent? She’s been polite, but its all been rated PG. She has said absolutely nothing that would suggest she has motives to hook up. Honestly, I think she’s probably attracted and intrigued, but definitely has no reason to hold expectations of a hookup of any sort. I think I can just play it cool, email her some songs, talk occasionally via text or email, and be polite at church. At most, she’ll be minimally disappointed.

    What,

    You are correct. I’m about to make a pretty significant and risky change in my career. My wife over the past 3 months has demonstrated that she has poor judgment and is just not at a similar intelligence level as me. For the first time, I am discovering that intimacy is not just physical. Its an ability to connect with another person, and i’ve finally admitted to myself that she just isn’t capable of it. I think i’ve avoided it for years with a good sex life with her, but honestly, i feel like I am without a partner in life and it makes me feel lonely.

    Then you throw in this church girl, and in the span of 40 minutes, we understand each other better than my wife has ever understood me, mostly a function of IQ. I can talk with her effortlessly about music, economics, religion, philosophy, politics, movies that require some thinking…

    The fact is, and I don’t know church girl this well, but it appears that she is a better match for me. Objectively. Honestly, my wife is too good looking for me anyway. And i’m going to be starting my own business in the next couple weeks, and I realize I need a true partner in life.

    You are very perceptive. Thanks for caring enough to comment.

    Like


  362. I was reading through the whole sordid story and noticed the lack of context. Damn good questions, what!

    Like


  363. Morsellaux,

    you’re the professor. A younger professor! heheh!!

    Thanks.

    Like


  364. what, any professor would be proud to have a student like you. No thanks necessary. 🙂

    I’ll be on the road, and will check tomorrow night how this develops.

    Like


  365. Sidewinder, you do have to make a decision, because your course of action is radically different if you do or don’t wish to have an affair with the girl.

    Note my use of words there. There is a difference between “want” and “wish”. Want is desire, wish is volition meaning that you will make it happen if you can.

    If you do wish to have an affair, which I strongly discourage, you have to keep your connection with the girl secret. If you only want to have an affair but wish to remain faithful, a very effective way to make that happen is to make sure your wife knows about the girl and the intended musical collaboration.

    However, even prior to this, and a reason you should move slowly with church girl, is that your wife already appears to have problems both with your musical hobby (which you presumably have had for years) and your socializing with other women. Neither of these is an acceptable attitude from her — she can properly feel that you should not socialize with other women behind your back, but if she is aware of who your female friends are you can have female friends. You have to be clear to your wife about this, but it only works if you have internally resolved that you are not going to try to have a sexual affair with church girl. Then you can be alpha and insist on the appropriateness of spending some of your time on music and friendships.

    You’ve got to focus on gaming your wife at least as urgently as getting to know church girl better, if not more so.

    My wife knew that I had email friendships with both men and women; when she discovered that I had exchanged a very large number of emails with one particular girl, she was concerned and upset, but when I showed her the emails we were exchanging she was able to see that the relationship was not a threat to her (because we were satisfied to keep the friendship long-distance). This had the side effect of my wife finding me even more attractive than before (DHV enhanced because the girl is quite impressive).

    Like


  366. Sidewinder, I have to side with Dana on this one even though I’m polygyny friendly. The deal you and your wife signed up for is monogamy. If you can’t hold up your end, you need to find a way out of it before you start the chain of lies and betrayal that cheating will entail at this point.

    If you just need some spice in your life, try base jumping or amateur racing, or do what a lot of guys do, and buy a motorcycle. If you go looking for happiness in strange pussy, it’ll make you as disatisfied as you are now because a man can’t be made happy by any woman. A man needs a mission and stuff to do aside of shagging, once that is taken care of.

    Like


  367. Sidewinder
    Your comments keep getting stuck in moderation because your comments are like long thin wet noodles. That sort of truth always gets stuck in anything because it is unmanly.
    IOWs, you are offering the world nothing but a long thin wet noodle that could not devirginize a trussed up 11 year old girl even if she were held in a getfuckedsoon parole-prison
    Dull brained (goy,thnking oops). Just change a few words and mister moderation will always become distracted and let just about anything past. Do, redo, keep fighting for your internet place in the sun,.

    Girls really like it too just not with guys whose dick is likely to get stuck in moderation.

    Like


  368. dude
    at this point i think we’re at a stalemate, since we don’t really have a basis for judging these encounters on which you’ve been reporting.
    i mean, don’t take this the wrong way, but your evaluations of grls interest level are to be taken with a grain of salt, since it seems taht you sometimes ascribe more ‘i’ than may be actually present in some ioi’s. for instance, in your coffeeshop exchange, you inferred strong sexual interest from an exchange that, to my jaded ears, sounded at best like the sort of innocent flirting that i’d have with a genial middle-aged store clerk. in other words, those grls may ahve been ‘flirting’, but it sounded a lot like they flirted and you couldn’t’ve converted.
    i mean, dude! have you ever been on the receiving end of *real* sub-rosa flirting, with a concrete end? if that’s what was happening the girl would most likely not have acknowledged your presence, let alone with a rather neutered greeting like “it was nice to talk to you”, once her boy came back.
    i’m not totally dismissing any possibility here, just laying some ods

    so the same thing might be happening here: you may be reading genuinely platonic interest signals as non platonic.

    anyway, how long have you known this girl? on what basis are you making this judgment that she is your fantasy dream of dreams come true?
    hint buddy: that shit fades after a while. if you act on this, what will most likely happen will be either (1) you’ll just embarrass her & her husband and your wife might even leave you, or (2) both of you’s will just leave a trail of broken relationships and fucked up children behind you, and will probably divore anyway.

    nicole is right on this one, go get a bike.
    or go wack it to some good porn, the selection is pretty amazing thes edays my man.

    Like


  369. @Dana

    An MRA would say that Tiger Woods didn’t owe a penny to his wife besides allowing her to see the kids some of the time and providing a per diem for the kids while they are in her care.

    An MRA would abhor not only the double standard in which Tiger Woods reputation was destroyed where, if he were a woman, everyone would be saying “You Go Girl”…but he or she would stand squarely against society and government hurting a man’s income potential and self esteem because of his private life.

    The fundamental drive of feminism is to stop men from cheating by introducing new laws and poison pills. It is similar to the fundamental drive of social conservatism.

    Like


  370. @Sidewinder

    Because the prior situation was dysfunctional with you accepting status lower than Weird Mentor Guy, you did exactly the right thing so far and I’d only agree with a naysayer or two here in that, if you don’t Facebook connect with Church Girl, you will be moving in a “non-innocent” direction.

    Then again, I don’t think a naysayer here bothered to give you the immediate advice about Facebook.

    An Alpha married male will have the ladies he comes into contact with looking up to him and considering themselves honored to be his friend and wishing they were his wife. What he decides to do with the options that presents is another matter.

    Like


  371. on September 20, 2010 at 3:10 am With friends like Jerry, who needs enemies

    Jerry —
    Hate to say it, but it’s guys like you, more than any actual feminists, who will ensure that the MRA movement never gets off the ground.

    Tiger Woods as a poster boy?
    Boo fucking hoo.
    Tiger is pathetic lying beta scum who wasn’t even in control of his dalliances; They obviously controlled him.
    Also, Tiger, like Paul McCartney, is hardly an object of pity; each of them still has hundreds of millions of dollars left. Anyone who thinks that either of these guys, or the likes of Mark Hurd, deserve any pity is an idiot.

    Also, I shouldn’t have to tell you that “stopping men from cheating” is actually seen by the vast majority of the general public as a *good* thing, so you are unwittingly promoting feminism here, Jerry. (Not to mention that you’re dead wrong about that point, anyway; feminists biggest hero of recent times is the avowed cheater Bill Clinton, so there goes that theory.)

    Like


  372. my husband and i are almost modern victorians with regard to allowing anything that smacks of poison to our marriage in our lives

    LOL except for him marrying the judenfrau

    try again, Thomas Carlyle!

    Like


  373. Speaking of the Victorian Era, check out how beaches looked back then:

    http://www.dont-panic.co.uk/how-beaches-looked-100-years-ago/

    Note the photo of the pervert using a tape measure to chastise a teenager for wearing a swimming dress cut too high above the knee. He’s not a pervert for being attracted to her (no hetero male wouldn’t be), but for trying to control/regulate her while he’s a hypocrite getting his Gamma thrill being so near her leg.

    Like


  374. Teach your male children to be constantly “Taking a Closer Look” with women as the linked blog article suggests. The attitude in this series of images is priceless:

    http://www.smilorama.com/priceless-unplanned-moments-with-naturel-views/

    In fact, consider taking the first black and white image and blowing it up to poster size and maybe frame it under glass.

    Then put it up in your male child’s bedroom to make very sure he doesn’t grow up with a Beta PC POV.

    Like


  375. on September 20, 2010 at 4:50 am gunslingergregi

    Yea note the amount of people.

    Try going to a beach today empty.

    Man those some bottom heavy bitches.

    Like


  376. Dana “i am the wrong person to ask, my husband and i are almost modern victorians with regard to allowing anything that smacks of poison to our marriage in our lives”
    –> Did you intend the irony in that comment?
    For the most part, “being victorian” would pretty much mean that your marriage was a business deal, and your husband could pretty much screw whoever he wanted as long as she wasn’t another family member lol.
    http://www.umd.umich.edu/casl/hum/eng/classes/434/charweb/MARR_485.htm

    Like


  377. on September 20, 2010 at 5:11 am gunslingergregi

    audrey

    I still don’t get why you have not tripped fallen and landed on my

    It is confusing to me.

    I guess another mystery of the universe.

    Like


  378. In the following series of amusing political images, scroll to the one where the US soldier mocks Hillary Clinton while shaking hands with her:

    http://www.slideshare.net/wings/top-20-funny-politician-pictures

    Regardless of one’s political views, that is the kind of moxy a father needs to teach his sons to have. That photo should have a post all to itself.

    Like


  379. Audrey just pointed out that modern social conservatives are a billion times worse for men than Victorians (and mostly no different from left wing fems when it comes to making sure men should be stopped by the state from having sex with anyone they want who’s willing).

    At least, when Victorian men publicly espoused sexual repression, they were making damn sure they were not legally liable for any punishment from the Nanny State for what they did with the women in their lives. A rich man could kick his wife out and install the nanny as his new wife or concubine who would raise the kids. If the wife had been known for being nasty, there would little social opprobrium for him either.

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  380. More often than that, the Victorian man did the nanny and the wife knew enough to shut up if she wanted to keep a good thing.

    That would have been an Alpha society…much as I’d rather not go back to seeing such beach scenes.

    Like


  381. on September 20, 2010 at 8:21 am gunslingergregi

    Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews

    Sanhedrin 57a. When a Jew murders a gentile there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

    Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has “exposed their money to Israel.”

    “Relying upon the Code of Maimonides and the Halacha, the Gush Emunim leader Rabbi Israel Ariel stated: “A Jew who killed a non-Jew is exempt from human judgment and has not violated the religious prohibition of murder.”

    Facinating.

    Like


  382. The chick emailed last night after midnight. Maybe she’s a night owl. Not reading into it, but not stupidly putting my guard down either. Did not accept her facebook request. Told my wife earlier last night that I was going to send this girl from church some songs. She was evidentially already on wife’s radar because she knew exactly who I was talking about. She didn’t ask any questions however, just noted that she is a “younger” girl.

    I’m not going to bang this girl while I am living with my wife and kids. That has always been my position.

    I am not going to pretend to be a beta platonic gay friend bitch with her either. I’m content to let the elephant in the living room remain sleeping, but if she expresses feelings or wants to know mine, I’ll tell her, and ground rules will be set.

    Sure, I guess there is a very remote possibility that she will put it all out there, assure me that there is absolutely no risk, that she doesn’t want to leave her husband or break up my marriage, but that she is dying to suck my johnson…I’m not holding my breath for this revelation.

    So that’s the deal. I’m sure there are better ways of handling it, but I’m going to have to man up and deal with the situation day by day, and so far, I think I’ve done a decent job. I’m a little nervous about next Sunday; wife could put me in a really beta position by forcing an introduction. My plan is to treat both bitches like I don’t really give a f because in reality, they both don’t hold a candle to my kids.

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  383. on September 20, 2010 at 10:30 am Gunslingergregi

    I will say that putting yourself in position to cheat and sitting there on another chicks bed after not having had sex with any woman for about 10 months and you told your woman at home your not going to cheat while away and this chick on the bed is ready to go and you are able to control yourself does make you feel manly.

    On the other hand if you are a mere mortal I wouldn’t suggest putting yourself in that position although if you want to test yourself I suppose an interesting way to do it.

    Like


  384. Guns,

    I don’t see this leading to that kind of situation. And if it were headed in that direction, I’d bet money that I would somehow screw it up before it got to that point. I have an amazing beta way of screwing shit up with words.

    Like


  385. on September 20, 2010 at 10:42 am Gunslingergregi

    lol dude.

    Some woman will fuck you just to make you go against your principals no matter what the fuck you say but especially if you say you don’t want to go againt your principals.

    Kind of a challenge for them eh

    almost like you could use it to game them eh

    Like


  386. audrey i was referring solely to the segregation of the sexes after marriage–ma faute

    Like


  387. on September 20, 2010 at 10:51 am Gunslingergregi

    Dana on hate the muslims but the jews are the ones who also think of us as killable. wild shit.

    I may have to go talk with some hasidics in nyc ask them wtf is up dog whats with the hate.

    Like


  388. @Sidewinder

    Women can smell pussy-whipped married men a mile away and are not turned on by that. If she gets the slightest idea that your wife “controls” you, she won’t be attracted anymore. Problem solved right quick.

    If a married woman makes a play for a single guy and he behaves “honorably” – making it like he feels that there’s an ethical problem involved – the problem will solve itself fast enough because the woman will be turned off.

    Again, problem solved right quick.

    Like


  389. In other words the supposed Takeaway Alpha formula of a man pulling away to make a woman want you more…does not apply to those who seem to be pulling away because “ethics” are involved. This is because the woman is mortally insulted by the concept that he feels he’s basically more moral than she is.

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  390. Guns, its completely non-PC to say this, but this is the real substantive revelation of Jesus Christ according to Saul of Tarsus: it is a new covenant with God, open to all men, not just the chosen. Jesus is reform judaism. Full disclosure: I am not christian. Modern christianity is so hocus-pocus and superficial. The truth of much of what Jesus had to say does not depend on his supernatural status. It could have been said by mickey mouse or adolf hitler and not been any less true. But there has always been a jewish problem, known more universally as an us vs. them tribalism, in-group/out-group social cohesion, or more recently, racial/ethnic nationalism.

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  391. Jerry,

    So how do you suggest I handle next Sunday? Wife is going to try to control her terroritory or force an intro. My plan is to appear disintereted and aloof, maybe preoccupied with something else. If wife gets too intense, maybe i’ll neg her. But generally, I’m willing to let church girl and wife worry about it. Let them freak all over themselves trying to indirectly reassure each other that everything is cool. Knowing women, I’m sure they will both more than likely set off each others’ hamster wheels.

    Like


  392. on September 20, 2010 at 11:11 am Gunslingergregi

    Yea christianity being open to anyone. Not as bad a deal I suppose but doesn’t lend to that feeling of specialness and giving yourself permission to beat everyone else at the game.

    See I told you to get your wife involved and she would go ahead and make what you wanted happen. he he he

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  393. @Sidewinder

    Well I told you not, under any conditions, to tell your wife.

    Are you going to tell your wife about Starbucks Girl also?

    So this is like answering someone whom I advised to quickly sell their stock saying after a crash “what do I do know that its lost half its value according to your warning”.

    You’ve gone and told your wife that you basically feel guilty about a new relationship with this woman. Women know when a man has that Beta urge to “get something off his chest” (conscience).

    Are you saying that someone gossiped back to her recently about your church behavior? Weird Mentor Guy tattle-taled?

    Even so…your talking to her about it has confirmed to her that this is “important” to you. Not good.

    Of course its outrageous that any man would let his wife openly shame him about age difference friendships. She’s showing her insecurity there big time. If she mentions the age difference again, shut her down fast by telling her she’s more beautiful but you don’t need her to show such insecurity now or in the future.

    I’ll think about it overnight…meaning your having done the one thing I stridently advised against which was telling your wife about something so harmless as making a new friend out of what was formerly a schizophrenic acquaintanceship.

    I hope to Unitarian Church Heaven you didn’t tell your wife you met this woman out of church and went for a walk! By bothering to tell your wife a little, she stands to dig for and find a lot (should Church Girl open her mouth about that walk next week). Loose lips sink ships.

    Like


  394. That Facebook quandary should be a lesson to all male readers of this blog and maybe a CR post. One should probably have two Facebook profiles, one as the family man and another as the business guy or whatever.

    Like


  395. Jerry,

    I did not discuss the walk with wife. But if it comes out, I’ll have to fall on my sword and tell wife the semi-truth: this dude was staring at me and i was trying to prevent causing a scene at church. Then I’ll have to directly reassure her that I will not make a move on this girl. My wife was out of town at the time, and i can always tell her that church girl implied that she didn’t want it known that we had talked about it.

    If church girl were to be so stupid, I would be really pissed and wouldn’t feel the slightest hestitation to put this back on her. But I think she probably has figured out the facebook thing, and girls are pretty good at being discrete.

    I had pretty strong plausible deniability with wife re talking to girl at church. She sung a solo for the offering, and my wife knows I’m looking for a singer/lyricist for my songs. It would have been more curious to my wife if I hadn’t talked to her about it. I think wife probably saw some of our interaction last week, because she knew immediately what girl I was talking about before I even described her.

    I think telling the wife was the right move on every level: on the game level, I can tell you, this girl will not openly participate in deliberate, dishonest adultry if presented as such. It is much more likely to happen as you described earlier: indirect, originally everything cool and in the open, feelings develop, she’s a little drunk…etc. etc. etc.

    This girl has too much self-respect to openly be an out-and-out mistress from day one. Even if she wanted this, she would never admit this to herself. She is an intelligent and caring person, and would never admit to herself that she wanted to steal a husband and break up a home. I’ve heard total slut bitches rationalize their messing around with a married man, and even they go out of their way to explain how it was something out of their hands. Based on her out in the open enthusiastic conversation with me after church, I think its apparent at this point that she doesn’t want to be seen as participating in any sketchy.

    But as I explained above, I don’t wish to bang this girl. I want to maintain dominant frame with her, and hopefully give her some tingles while she makes my songs better.

    Like


  396. my husband and i are almost modern victorians with regard to allowing anything that smacks of poison to our marriage in our lives

    LOL except for him marrying the judenfrau

    lozl tov!

    Like


  397. @sidewinder

    “plausible deniability”? seriously?
    !!
    you don’t even have anything to deny!

    the only way your wife will even find this weird is if you have literally never socialized with a woman since your wedding day. otherwise, it’s NORMAL EVERYDAY SOCIAL INTERACTION.
    NORMAL.

    the only fuckup so far is acting like it’s something you actually have to justify, or that it’s out of the ordinary … this will of course make wifey think you’re doing something (wait for it) unjustified or out of the ordinary.

    hellooooo

    Like


  398. sidewinder,

    i feel kind of sorry for you. i would really like to talk to you about this entire situation, and to explain what people are trying to say to you. i think you’re coming at this the wrong way. this thread is getting old but feel free to email me at [email protected].

    –merc

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  399. Sidewinder, my dad has been in the position of young, hot women being attracted to him many times. He says he wouldn’t give up what he has with my mom for any of them, partly because a woman who actually flirts with a married man already shows herself to be skank.

    This is a man who has never worn a wedding ring because basically, he thinks it’s beta…like the link of a chain. Since he and my mom had a rough start (breakup, going off with another guy, getting pregnant, guy turns out to be psycho, returns, psycho tries to do a good old fashioned American murder-suicide) I think it’s his way of keeping hand.

    He’s a very attractive man, and for all I know, might have had an affair or two, though I doubt it. The main reason none of us would know about it is because he has a brain in his head. I have heard him make comments to other guys he’s counseled after cheating akin to, “You could have avoided this drama and just repented and moved on if you weren’t stupid enough to poop where you eat.”

    See, he considers the disrespecting the wife by doing it with someone close to the family’s social circle a double sin on top of the cheating itself. It’s like, the least you can do is do it with someone your wife doesn’t know and will probably never meet.

    So this whole thing is a bad idea not just because you’re going to break your word, but because you’re actually considering it with someone she knows.

    Don’t do it. If you do, you’re a dumbass and don’t deserve the wife you have.

    Though someone else said don’t complain if she does a 2.0 on you afterwards. I actually hope she doesn’t. I hope she does the right thing and asks for nothing.

    …cause that is going to mess with your head over the years much more than her taking revenge.

    It’s not about karma or any kind of mystical concept. It’s about the natural consequences of the choices you make. You’re talking about throwing away a diamond for some shiny glass. Worse, making that diamond feel like she’s less valuable just because she’s got a little dust on her.

    As soon as you pull out, you’re going to find out that it wasn’t worth it, but damned if you won’t try to convince yourself that it is. I’ve seen this happen so many times.

    Find something else to do, or at the very least, don’t fuck someone your wife knows. I feel bad even having to explain that to a grown man.

    Like


  400. @Sidewinder

    You know you’re getting good advice when both Dalerojo and myself actually agree on something. 😉

    You really didn’t do anything out of the ordinary for an Alpha male who’s married. Last week you were unable to control your environment and now you’ve learned a bit how to do so. That is huge for you. But you’ve only learned how not to be a putz like Weird Mentor Guy.

    But telling your wife that this was an important new thing for you may have been a mistake.

    It was like “Hi Honey, I just learned how to make friends with younger women. We’re going to write songs”.

    To help you reframe how to handle your wife in the near future, here’s a story about a married American man who once worked for me:

    He was about 5’3″ and really ugly with bad teeth and smelled bad. On top of that he had a mean streak. Still, I promoted him to foreman because he was super competent, honest, loyal, smart and charming when things were going well (so workers wanted things to go well).

    I still figured he was an Omega with women. I was way wrong on that.

    One day I was in a truck with him and learned that, apparently on Wednesdays, lots of young American women know to lift their shirts for truck drivers who give a certain sign. While this is sophomoric, I realized that he was into controlling the environment as far as women were concerned.

    Then I met his wife. She was a 10. I was in complete shock. I’ve never envied another man his wife so much.

    I won’t get into how he probably got her and kept her (but I can imagine she liked his mean streak in contradiction to all feminist teaching about how women don’t like abusive men) but one incident a few months later provided instruction on how all men should behave with their wives:

    We were loading a truck in a hardware store parking lot and he had accidentally switched on the walkie talkie part of his mobile phone as a heavy object brushed against his side. He didn’t know that his wife was about to get a play by play of the action back home in the kitchen.

    The Babe Factor suddenly rose in the parking lot and he started telling another male employee what he would like to do to each young woman in view…with very detailed language about how they looked and what the play by play would be like. I probably broke a few feminist laws by allowing employees to talk to each other like that.

    Suddenly the walkie talkie crackles and its his wife! She was furious about him wanting to cheat on her. And then I learned why he probably got her in the first place:

    He immediately got on the phone with her and said “You will NEVER spy on me like that again. Do you HEAR me?”

    And he continued to berate her for spying, saying that no wife of his was going to be so deceitful.

    He also said, but only as an aside, that he had only been showing off to his co-workers like a comedian would.

    Within 30 seconds she was crying and apologizing to him.

    That’s how the Hunchback with bad teeth got that 10 in the first place.

    ———–

    Last night I asked a group of married EE women about this subject. They said they assumed their husbands were cheating on them with friendly massages and the like, but not going all the way so as to get a disease.

    They said that, in any event, the local culture was such that it was completely unacceptable behavior for a woman to confront her husband about anything but possible intercourse with another woman (a concern about disease). Other than that, it’s don’t ask don’t tell.

    Anglo males need to re-enforce a don’t ask don’t tell regime on their womenfolk. If a man swears to be faithful, it has to be on the honor system…

    …and certainly with no Divorce Industry Sword of Damocles hanging over his head.

    Just like in Victorian Days.

    Like


  401. on September 21, 2010 at 5:16 am gunslingergregi

    ””””I probably broke a few feminist laws by allowing employees to talk to each other like that.”””””’

    Yea it is funny how deep the rabbit hole goes isn’t it.

    Your job in a company is to have a list of what is allowed to be said.

    Like


  402. This will be my final post on this church girl topic.

    Half of the posters are assuming that I will be banging this girl sometime in the future and I assume are advising me to cut things off with church girl. The other half are telling me that I am essentially a big wuss, that I haven’t done anything, and/or I’m screwing everything up.

    Here is what has happened in the past 72 hours:

    A girl that I like and with whom I sensed some mutual attraction is now in my life. In what capacity, who knows? Who really cares? There’s only one extremely unlikely scenario where I would mess around with her. She returns my emails and texts, she agrees to meet with me for a couple hours on a saturday morning, and she appears happy to talk with me when she sees me. These are all vast improvements from the previous weirdness. And she’s in the process of working on one of my songs, so everything is going better than I would have expected with church girl.

    I didn’t make a big deal about telling the wife. She asked who I talked with at church and I ran through the list of people I talked to, including this girl. And I threw in that she agreed to take a listen to some of my songs. Wife made mental ID of the girl, noting that she was younger. Current status with wife is that she is cooking and cleaning like she never has, and she’s putting out at my whim. Complete coincidence? Maybe. Whatever the cause, I’m happy with the results.

    Things have gone extremely well. (cont.)

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  403. (cont.)

    To those suggesting I will ruin my marriage: i have control of this situation. There is only one outstanding risk, and that would be if church girl mentions our walk to my wife. My experience with women ni the past has taught me that they are pretty good at these social dynamics and will know to remain discrete unless told otherwise. In her own interest, she doesn’t want to volunteer to my wife that she was out on a 2 hour walk on a Saturday morning with her husband. I assess this as a fairly low risk. I know through past experience to control my surroundings with girls I’m attracted to. I will not be playing any one on one drinking games with this girl.

    To those suggesting I am a big beta wuss: Maybe I am, but besides Polymath and Guns, do any of you have girlfriends or wives? Maybe I could have been more alpha in my interactions with this girl, but what would that have accomplished? I accomplished everything I set out to do. Polymath is the only poster who has got the concept that while I want to bang this girl, I WISH for my family to remain together. This is not an inconsistent position. I’m sure I could have done things differently, but I can’t think of better results than what I have. Unless you guys are such amazing hypnotists that you think you could convince church girl to suck my johnson without any expectations or risks to my family, there is nothing else I could have accomplished that I haven’t accomplished.

    You might say that I’m no different than the old, professor dude with his secret crush. However, I am not that guy. I am a lot better looking, confident, cocky and clever. And you’ll just have to take my word or trust my perceptions, but I would not have moved on this girl if I wasn’t sure that she was digging me last Sunday. I saw it, crazy professor dude evidentially saw it, and everything that has happened in the past 72 hours has been consistent with it. That being said, the girl is not a moron, and she appears to respect the fact that I’m not available sexually.

    I don’t mean to appear boastful, and I realize these aren’t the greatest accomplishments in the history of male/female relations. It was a little bit of a sticky situation, and it required me to go out on a limb a little bit to reach out to the church girl. Those of you dismissing this as “normal socializing” are avoiding a great deal of the sexual dynamics and uncertainties in such an interaction. Not saying anyone else couldn’t handle it, but this wasn’t a meet-and-greet in the church lobby type of situation.

    What more can I say? Everything has worked out great so far. Please feel free to tell me what a philandering terrible husband I am, or what a beta/omega douche I am for not being more alpha.

    Like


  404. on September 21, 2010 at 10:45 am gunslingergregi

    ”””Current status with wife is that she is cooking and cleaning like she never has, and she’s putting out at my whim. ””””

    he he he

    You got to train her to always put out on your whim.

    Get her to agree that her body is your body.

    Get used to feeling that you own her body then you will feel more responsible for it.

    Like


  405. @Sidewinder,

    I respect your not wishing to damage your marriage.

    I hope you do what you most need to do.

    BUT

    Just a note:

    That being said, the girl is not a moron, and she appears to respect the fact that I’m not available sexually.

    In my experience, this rarely stops women from fucking men they want to.

    I can’t tell you to do it or not: I’m as far as you can be from being in a moral position to judge or give advice. I can say that random sex with hot girls when you’re attached is exciting, sometimes, … but also often emotionally damaging to yourself, if you really like the girl you’re with (um, either of them). It can be both at the same time. It can also be boring as hell, and dangerous for all that.

    It’s like going on holiday to a British resort: often, it’s raining and dull, and the worst thing: You’re paying for it. (lesson learned while living in Paris: Go south).

    BUT IF YOU DO IT:

    You’ve got to avoid: 1) Lying to the woman you’re cheating with. Be up front. Make it clear you’re not in any space except physical intimacy. Absolute. Never, ever give her the impression that she can get anything else. It may actually attract her. In any case, post-sex complications may ensue.

    2) Getting attached. Your wife is more important. Remember this. Forget this and you become that asshole women and other men hate. That can be fine, if you want a divorce.

    3) Be respectful. She has your reputation, and your marriage, in her hands. This gives her some power. You can mitigate her possible Fatal Attraction urge to use it by being ultra respectful of her at all times (but remaining Alpha).

    4) Don’t supplicate. Give her plenty of explosive orgasms, maybe, enjoy your time with her, be respectful, but don’t be anything other than the Guy You Don’t Mess With. You don’t need to be an asshole to pull this off.

    In short: If you’re going to fuck around, do it like a man, not a weasel. In the end, your wife will forgive you for being The Man and screwing around and then coming home and respecting her as your wife, if you do it as a guy with strong game. If you look weak, weasely, conniving, or wheedling or uselessly deceptive, she won’t respect it and will hate you for being both a cheater and a a weak-kneed fool.

    Hearken to these words, man. If you’re going to fuck around, know what you’re doing and don’t be a shit.

    Like


  406. Gorb,

    Thank you for the good advice. If it heads down that path in the future, I will keep all your points in mind. I especially agree with the honestly towards the mistress…the ONLY way I could see something happening with this other girl would only be after several very honest conversations. I think that’s a long way off from now. I agree that women can often be pretty amoral when they are assured that no one will know about their behavior, but from this girl’s perspective, I think she’s getting out of a marriage and would rather pass on a married man in a complicated situation, in spite of his rugged good looks and commanding presence. SA. I think she probably sees the world as her oyster right now, and she likes the ego boast from my attention, but she probably sees herself finding a more straightforward Mr. Right.

    Like


  407. @Sidewinder,

    You’re probably grossly overestimating this woman’s good-naturedness and lack of interest in a married guy.

    In my experience, a woman in her situation is more likely to fuck you than a single guy.

    That said – should you EVER go down this road, and want to keep your marriage (or at least not be raped in court), remember:

    If you’re going to fuck around, do it like a man. Don’t be a pussy. Own it. Know it: Don’t feel too guilty, so that it makes you do stupid things; do it; be comfortable with it.

    If you lose your own internal frame, you risk unbalancing yourself, and your wife is married to you. She’ll smell that from the next room.

    If you’re going to cheat, say: I’m going to cheat. Go in, enjoy it, game the woman, be The Man, and get out.

    Don’t let it go to your head (ego);
    Do use the boost in self-esteem to game your wife more thoroughly and fuck her like a man should;
    Don’t let the girl you cheat with think she has anything on you;
    And enjoy your time.

    Should you decide not to – don’t regret it. Then you go home and make your wife beg for your attention.

    Actually, you do that anyway.

    The whole point of getting married is to have a partner. Whether you’re cheating or not, your wife should be your partner. Not your superior or your chain or your trap.

    And if you neglect her, you’ll just get divorced and remarried and do the same thing again.

    Just remember to do it with some pride no matter what you do.

    IE: Be a man.

    Like


  408. @Sidewinder

    It was more to calm you down and counteract some of the moralizing from others that I said today that what you did was normal. And Dalerojo actually made a post that wasn’t putting anyone down.

    He was just saying that, for a married man, you’d done nothing wrong (and I can’t believe I’m defending him).

    So those were two people who didn’t mean that you were a wuss. You were actually quite brave to do what you did.

    Now what you did with Starbucks Girl was wussy (just kidding).

    And for a good looking guy like you say you are, handling this type of situation *will* be normal in the future.

    Please update this thread about the Adventures of Church Girl and Sidewinder. 😉

    Like


  409. Lol @ Jerry, I’m 39 myself so I have no problem with the idea of older men picking up younger women.

    What seems a little silly is the extreme over-analyzation of minor interactions. Also that SW is pedastalizing this girl. Neither tendency is good when dealing with women.

    I don’t know if it was CH or Roosh who stressed making the play quickly for a girl you find interesting. In context of bar game or day game at coffeeshops, etc, this means approaching within 30 seconds or a minute, before you have the chance to psyche yourself out.

    SW has his sights set on a particular girl instead of understanding that women are mostly interchangeable. He’s fantasized over her for so long that he thinks she’s special and he’s already thinking he’d want to spend his old age with her, even though he really doesn’t know her.

    Of course the biggest problem remains a married guy pursuing a married woman in a church environment of all places. Think, man, how you’d feel if some guy was using your church to pull this on YOUR wife.

    Like