#1 Herb

king of all satchels

What do herbs carry in their satchels that they need convenient access to whatever is inside while at nightclubs? Grapes? A back issue of Wired? Naomi Wolf’s ‘The Beauty Myth’? E tabs? An Obama-shaped buttplug? Scientists are baffled.

Other trademarks of the species herbisaurus maximus:

He goes straight to the leg press machine at the gym because he has no upper body strength. And it’s easy to stack a lot of plates on the leg press without actually exerting much effort.

He only exudes confidence around women when he’s already in a relationship. The herb will turn into an unstoppable and slightly creepy parvenu of flirtatious banter when he knows he has a girlfriend to fall back on. If his practice target reciprocates, the herb will suddenly get nervous and start babbling about having to go to Bed, Bath and Beyond to buy his girlfriend scented tub stickers.

Related to the above, the herb is happy when in a relationship, morose when single. A herb who has been in a rut for longer than six months will sweat droplets of pure estrogen.

The herb constantly white knights, subconsciously hoping it will lead to sex. It never does, and the herb never learns. This white knighting instinct can be particularly annoying to the herb’s buddies. Try it and see for yourself. Example: Herb’s friend negs girl. Herb intrudes, “Hey, man, that’s not cool. Her shoes are fine.” Friend loses pickup momentum as herb monopolizes convo with girl, emoting furiously about the latest indie band.

The herb is more flexible than most female gymnasts. He does 1,500 Kegels a day, inadvertently.

The herb is not gay, but sometimes wishes he were, because he is that open-minded.

Herbs are vegetarians. Super herbs are vegans. Meat eating herbs will indulge in private, away from scornful female peers. Almost all the herb’s peers are female LJBFs.

Herbs have never — not ONCE — acquired a girlfriend by picking her up. All the herbs in the world met their girlfriends through social circles.

There are many subspecies of herbs, but the one thing they all have in common is lumpenbeta passivity. Not only does the herb have no concept of game, he will be actively repelled when you try to explain it to him. He doesn’t understand why men need game because he is happy with his chubby 4 girlfriend.

Now there are Japanese herbs! The herb has gone international!

Typically, “herbivore men” are in their 20s and 30s, and believe that friendship without sex can exist between men and women, Fukasawa said.

The term has become a buzzword in Japan. Many people in Tokyo’s Harajuku neighborhood were familiar with “herbivore men” — and had opinions about them.

Shigeyuki Nagayama said such men were not eager to find girlfriends and tend to be clumsy in love, and he admitted he seemed to fit the mold himself.

“My father always asks me if I got a girlfriend. He tells me I’m no good because I can’t get a girlfriend.”

Midori Saida, a 24-year-old woman sporting oversized aviators and her dyed brown hair in long ringlets, said “herbivore men” were “flaky and weak.”

“We like manly men,” she said. “We are not interested in those boys — at all.”

It can no longer be denied; I have my finger on the pulse of trends in first world decay. What will be the next meme to capture the world’s imagination? Stay tuned!

No herbs were harmed in the writing of this post.





Comments


  1. good call man.

    long die the herbs!

    Like


  2. on June 9, 2009 at 11:48 am Seeking Alpha

    Idea:

    Next time you see one of these guys, pretend to be a writer for a popular herb blog and give a quick interview.

    It’d be difficult to hide your contempt, but you have to appear sincere.

    ‘Love the satchel? What’s in it?’

    Like


  3. on June 9, 2009 at 11:53 am whippersnapper

    aren’t East Asian men, for the most part, by definition “herbs”?

    Like


  4. Yeh, and then you wonder why we are attracted to “thugs”.

    Look at what non prole urban women have to choose from? Yech, i’d rather get slapped by a biker

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  5. Also of note;
    its golumn like slumped in posture
    its hands in front of its body (likely holding a weak beer)
    its directing its attention to a man that has his back to it

    It seems that its choice of shirt is incongruent with the attire of the venue at least 4 out of the 5 other guys seem to be properly wearing button up shirts.

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  6. The herb doesn’t often drink beer, but when he does, he prefers Dos Equis.

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  7. Ohh fudge!, I’m a herb.

    Like


  8. “But If We Started Dating It Would Ruin Our Friendship Where I Ask You To Do Things And You Do Them”

    http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/but_if_we_started_dating_it?utm_source=onion_rss_daily

    Police sergeant repeatedly tried to call suspect she considered ‘hot,’ charging document says

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/waukesha/47221487.html

    Like


  9. on June 9, 2009 at 11:58 am Conscientious observer

    Mishima must be rolling in his grave:

    Like


  10. haha, herbs…

    you know a lota military guys are herbs. i even knew one whose name actually was “Herb”

    Like


  11. I notice the herb is wearing glasses. Is that inherently beta? I’m trying to think of an alpha with glasses and its not coming to me.

    The monocle strikes me as a strong alpha accessory, but it also seems completely silly in the modern era to wear one.

    Like


  12. It looks like Marvin was a bad choice, considering the line (on Saturday, at least) that these dudes had to wait in in order to get into that sausage fest. Try Policy.

    I do find Senor Uno to be mildly amusing, is he sporting a faux hawk? Does it feel good to have no muscle tone? He also appears to be shorter than the other guys in the herd (aside from slouchy mc brown collar, grey shirt).

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  13. poor herbs.

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  14. “E tabs?”

    I don’t think “Herbs” would be slinging E-Tabs in the spot.

    This part was funny:

    “Example: Herb’s friend negs girl. Herb intrudes, “Hey, man, that’s not cool. Her shoes are fine.” Friend loses pickup momentum as herb monopolizes convo with girl, emoting furiously about the latest indie band.”

    Rolling out at night with someone who doesn’t have Game is painful.

    That is why I primarily roll Dolo.

    – MPM

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  15. “…An Obama-shaped buttplug?..creepy parvenu of flirtatious banter… ”

    ahh, the joy in the wondrous versatility of English language

    Mishima was gay, but being gay doesn’t mean Herbdom.

    If the warrior spirit and culture of Japanese manhood is negated in just one brief generation, woe betide the burgeoning sissy culture here.

    suddenly, I feel the hunger for immediate vagina, served hot – preferably blond.

    Like


  16. G, you rock, as usual. I aspire to your position. We all gotta have heroes.

    Like


  17. I’m reminded by firepower of ancient rome (again) about gay men. Pitchers were considered manly. Catchers were pussies/herbs. Rape by soldier was often a threat of punishment used against male criminals.

    Are we becoming feudla Japan or feudal Europe now? Check out “The Seven Samurai” for the sharp societal distinction between alphas (samurai) and betas (farmers). Or the American adaptation, “The Magnificent Seven.” Yule Brenner and Steve McQueen=always the alphas.

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  18. […] by no means the first to admit it, but I find the Roissy in DC blog hilarious and totally addictive.  He’s one of us, for sure (secular, Right); and his […]

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  19. “Herbs are vegetarians. Super herbs are vegans”
    Killer whales, sharks, octopi, barracuda, bears, raccoons, snakes, hyenas, lions, tigers, dogs, cats, lizards, snakes, wolves, gar, pirhanna, squid, bass, catfish, insects, crocodiles, alligators, eels, jaguars, lynx, bobcats, polar bears, foxes, hawks, eagles…………………..all proud carnivores, and some are even cannibals. And most taste great themselves. I’ll carry on the proud tradition of eating herbivores like cows and chickens and fish even if Im the last human on earth to do so.

    Vegetarianism for most is an act of moral vanity. Notice how they announce to the world their herbivorism everywhere they go so loudly. I -really- dont get the vegans. It does not hurt a cow to be milked, in fact much of a cows milk will sour in its belly if you dont milk it. Jesus fed a crowd with fish. At -least- eat dairy and fish.

    Ever notice how many people put way too much weight on leg-presses but only do roughly quarter reps? Thats like getting on a bench press and only bringing the weight half the way down. One is supposed to bring the weight all the way down until their thighs are at a 90′ degree angle from the floor on squats, and the leg press depth of motion is supposed to be the same——just as if you were sitting in a chair with your feet flat on the floor. People at the gym should be impressed by each other’s physiques and not the poundages they lift. Lifting too much weight will just injure your joints and lead to muscle tears. Thats the price fo showing off in there.

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  20. When you see some puddles on the ground
    You lay down so she don’t have to walk around
    You think that will protect her from the rain
    But you’ll never ever stop the pain
    She walks all over you
    You know she can, she knows she can
    You’re a carpet man, you’re a carpet man

    You take such care to keep that girl’s feet clean
    Like she’s some kind of figurine
    The world’s so far below her it’s not her scene
    And so she uses you to stand between
    She walks all over you
    You know she can, she knows she can
    You’re a carpet man, you’re a carpet man

    I would think you’d get tired of hurtin’
    Every now and then
    It’s no good down there that’s for certain
    And carpets do get thin
    And that’s when they have to be thrown away
    That’s what she’ll say to herself some sunny day
    And she’ll say come to my wedding and of course you do
    And then the groom and her will have a dance on you
    She walks all over you
    You know she can, she knows she can
    You’re a carpet man, you’re a carpet man

    –5th Dimension, 1967

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  21. “No herbs were harmed in the writing of this post.”

    That’s a presumptuous statement. They’re sensitive.

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  22. Sara said in the last batch of comments that roissy has a kid. Is this true?

    Don’t mean to change the subject, but it seems extremely relevant to what roissy preaches.

    Like


  23. I love how Roissy posts can bring out the ultra beta/omega boys who read European Right literature (Evola, de Benoist, Spengler) and other Rightist writers like Mishima, think that they’re super tough badasses, and fantasize about being masculine warrior he man/gods and Rightist political leaders, in between bouts of beating off to porn in their dark, dank rooms. They’re all very socially awkward and the only remotely strenuous physical activity they can finish is jerking off to completion.

    Like


  24. on June 9, 2009 at 12:50 pm Conscientious observer

    Yes, I wonder what Roissy would make of someone like Mishima, who in many ways embodied the prerogatives of Alphadom yet whose object choice may have lain more in men than in women.

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  25. Conscientious observer, see my earlier post on ancient rome.

    Like


  26. Very funny…and yet so accurate!

    I am truly so put off by the vegetarian mantra, I usually order some sort of bacon eating around them, because most do still admit to loving the smell even if they are repulsed by it. 🙂

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  27. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with alpha-beta status. Plenty of gay betas and plenty of gay alphas.

    Gay culture though, like straight culture, seems to go along with wider cultural trends too. Check out the wikipedia entry for “Bears” (a gay subculture). Traditionally, this was a subculture that was based on “lumberjack” masculinity – beards, motorcycles, etc. Many of the older generation of “bears” bemoan the current state of the culture, especially pageants (!).

    Gay culture is not immune to the cultural rot.

    Like


  28. wynter lisps:

    I love how Roissy posts can bring out the ultra beta/omega boys who read European Right literature (Evola, de Benoist, Spengler) and other Rightist writers like Mishima, think that they’re super tough badasses,

    I’d sentence you to Rape by Soldier – but with your superior knowledge of obscure scribblers, you’d

    want a life sentence…

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  29. Modern gay culture is so left driven its ridiculous. When Andrew Sullivan is considered “right wing gay” you know your culture is headed towards self-induced annihilation. But what do you expect from the pink shirts who violently oppose any study into whether sexual orientation can be changed?

    Me thinks the fairies doth protest too much.

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  30. The leg press comment is odd though. Z, I actually never really watched the kids at my gym go through their leg press machine routine, but it’s mostly HS football kids doing it. Not quite vegan beta boys. But I don’t do that machine. I find that actual real world exercise and P90X is good enough.

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  31. Alphas use free weights. Betas use machines.

    Like


  32. “1,500 Kegels a day, inadvertently.”

    this was the funniest line in the post.

    @askjoe: I agree, Marvin is damn near intolerable on the weeknights any more. It’s like being on a subway platform at rush hour. I was at Policy for the first time on Saturday and thought it was decent – will try again later.

    Let me go out on a limb and try to connect some large dots that have been raised here:

    Is the herb phenomenon, the feminization of educated, urban men, related to the “beta withdrawal” concept put forth by Obs and others? These dudes *think* they’re dating but they’re doing it purely on female terms, often in explicitly non-sexual ways. is this one, or one-half, step removed from the DAs of the world? Is the Great Beta Withdrawal already upon us, happening in gradual stages?

    Or, is it compeltely different in kind? Betas engaging in the social sphere are agreeing to jump through feminist hoops, after all, and the withdrawal from circiulation would imply a definite rejection of them – the first step to a larger world.

    Thoughts?

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  33. Gay culture is not immune to the cultural rot.

    “Gay culture” is cultural rot. In a culture that was not rotten it would be impossible to speak of “gay culture”.

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  34. “I love how Roissy posts can bring out the ultra beta/omega boys who read European Right literature (Evola, de Benoist, Spengler) and other Rightist writers like Mishima, think that they’re super tough badasses, and fantasize about being masculine warrior he man/gods and Rightist political leaders, in between bouts of beating off to porn in their dark, dank rooms.”

    You left out Mein Kampf. It is teh best! Lebensraum and all that good stuff… And dark, dank rooms? My Fap Studio is well lit and very comfortable. Sounds like you need to clean up your place and air it out.

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  35. Mo, there was some hotness at Policy when I was there (maybe I am just a sucker for young girls in cocktail dresses).

    In connecting the dots, there does seem to be a lot of adoptive anti-gaming by these betas. That is, they seem to take on the lame PCish drivel that their female circles mindlessly recite, in order to conform with what they think the girl wants to hear. I don’t know if it’s SWPL or beta. Most guys I know who are actually with left of center, DC PR girls or lawyer girls, haven’t adopted their woman’s politics, taking on an eye-rolling, isn’t that cute attitude.

    However, the beta locked in the LJBF cycle still thinks that servitude and niceness is what will land them a girl. Maybe they just need growing up.

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  36. As a gay, I am in agreement that “gay culture” could well be a marker of decadence. Societies past and present that allow for “heteroflexibility” while maintaining the family unit as society’s basic building block seem to have the right idea. As in, a guy can play around and do whatever he wants for recreation, but is expected to take a wife and sire children.

    And yeah, alpha gays exist. I am one. I run roissy- and other PUA- influenced game on pretty boys all over NYC. I’ll leave the specifics to latent homoerotic imaginations.

    I also like to flirt with attractive women, and feel I will not fully be a man until I’ve bedded attractive women, even though my current preference is men. It takes interaction with the power of Woman to make a man.

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  37. don’t feed the trolls.

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  38. @anon- great links, especially the “Onion” article. Should be read, and laughed at loud at, by everyone who shows up here! Someone said the other week that the Onion jumped the shark years ago – I disagree, I think it’s still hilarious and dead-on satire. they might have lost some of their edge when they moved from Madison to NY, but they still got it.

    the female-cop-hitting-on-criminal article is also classic. perfect illustration, like the Australia story yesterday, of everything here.

    maybe there should be a “Tramp of the Month” award to complement the “Beta of the Month” ? To showcase equally typical and egregious female behavior patterns? The Oz and Wisc stories would be great first entries.

    Like


  39. OK, I’ll give it a whirl.

    First off the Man-Purse’s gotta go. For the life of me I do not know where this trend came from, but I can’t die out quick enough for me. And I’m w/Roissy, the vast majority of guys don’t need a bag of any kind going into a bar or club.

    Second-what’s up with this modified Mo-Hawk look so many of you White guys are wearing these days? It looks whacked, shave it off. Some White guys can make the buzzcut work, and in Herb’s case, he don’t have much choice, ’cause the Last of the Mohicans look ain’t gonna get it.

    Next, the Polo shirt, I agree, completely out of place. Notice the guy to Herb’s right, a bit off in the distance, he’s wearing a black buttondown dress shirt? Simple, to the point, inexpensive. I copped a bunch of buttondowns like that in different colors for like ten bucks a pieace but when it was still cold out, what, Feb or so? Looking nice doesn’t have to cost a lot. If Herb had on a nice tailored buttondown, loose the Man-Purse, get a haircut, he’d be good to go.

    As for his height, nothing can be done about that, but it don’t matter; fortunately for us guys, Women don’t have as “hard” a set of criteria in the looks dept like we do. Being a shorter guy myself, I can tell any guy under 6 feet to make sure your Game is fundamentally sound, stick to the basics and hold your head up high, and you’ll be able to mack the hottest honies. Size matters not.

    Same deal with the physique-not knocking weightlifting or anything like that, but I know for a fact that being on the slim side is no barrier to getting hotties. Its all about how you carry yourself.

    Couldn’t inspect Herb’s kicks, maybe Roissy can give us a report on that, but y’all know me-your kicks have always got to be on point.

    So, to re-cap:

    1. Loose the Man-Purse; in fact, burn it.

    2. Loose the modified Mohawk, get a White boy style buzzcut even all the way around. In fact, he should go over to Z Street and let the Brothas do it, that way he can pick up extra pointers on Game.

    3. Loose the Ralph Lauren Polo shirt, it don’t fit the venue, plus its too loud. Get a inexpensive tailored buttondown dress shirt, *no patterns*, always solid colors. White and black should always be in the closet, then work in pastels per the seasons of the year. For example, I might rock baby blue french cuff dress shirt, throw some silver cuff links in em, and play it on the outside of my jeans (which, for that color, have to be indigo blue got to coordinate). Get me?

    5. Height and physique, within reason, don’t really matter. What matters is your confidence, your swagger. Trust me.

    That’s it.

    Never let it be said that the Obsidian never did nothin for the Herbs of the World.

    O

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  40. —Sara said in the last batch of comments that roissy has a kid. Is this true?—

    Sara spends all of her time on the internet. She doesn’t know anything about anything.

    Like


  41. Roissy Herbs don’t even do leg presses, they never train legs.

    They just do curls with 5lbs pink dumbells, lat pulldown, and jogging. You also see them in the “body pump” classes wailing their arms with a 5lbs dumbells, and plastic step up boxes.

    Like


  42. on June 9, 2009 at 1:44 pm Seeking Alpha

    Second-what’s up with this modified Mo-Hawk look so many of you White guys are wearing these days?

    Day and Nitttttte…

    Like


  43. on June 9, 2009 at 1:45 pm Seeking Alpha

    As a gay, I am in agreement that “gay culture” could well be a marker of decadence. Societies past and present that allow for “heteroflexibility” while maintaining the family unit as society’s basic building block seem to have the right idea. As in, a guy can play around and do whatever he wants for recreation, but is expected to take a wife and sire children.

    That’s actually really interesting. A lot of people today would view ‘heteroflexibility’ as hyprocritical, but it’s really just doing your part to help move society along.

    Like


  44. @askjoe – I got there pretty close to closing, so wasn’t so impressed, but do intend to check it out again. location pretty good for many other venues.

    what you described isn’t withdrawal – it’s guys jumping through, or pretending to jump through, female hoops to stay in the game. What DA is about, and what Obs says is coming, is guys voluntarily withdrawing from female companionship, because the rules are so rigged against them that it isn’t worth the effort. So they spend their time on video games and porn, not out on the town.

    I guess my question, then, was if the former is a stage of becoming the latter. Maybe not – the herbs might be an end-state in their own frame, happy to be (yechh) what they are. submissive/passive sexual relations, after the feminist hoop Olympics, being better than none, in that view. Up the scale, they could learn game and become more masculine; down the scale, they degenerate into DAs. I guess herbs are not an undifferentiated lot and some could pick either one of these paths.

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  45. Herbs don’t do leg presses. If they do do legs it’s leg extensions.

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  46. O, seriously, I have seen more than one black guy with a faux-hawk here in NYC. Including a bouncer I know quite well.

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  47. @Kevin K:
    You wouldn’t think glasses are inherently beta, but maybe it’s a sign of genetic weakness.

    Glasses by themselves could be OK, if the guy was visibly alpha in physique, style, swagger etc. Tom Brady in glasses: OK. It’s the combination of spectacles with pretentious polo team shirt, long man purse, pointy hair that’s deadly.

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  48. roissy,

    hilarious.

    i’ll agree with a previous commenter though that leg-press machines aren’t used by most Herbs, perhaps just Herbs in your gym or in DC.

    the leg press is a relatively strenuous workout. i see Herbs curling 15s for 25 reps or using the hip aductor machine but hardly ever on legs presses, the squat rack, bench press, or doing deadlifts.

    The Herb also incorporates crazy exercises into their workouts like hanging upside down from the pull-up bar, doing reverse crunches.

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  49. on June 9, 2009 at 2:02 pm Seeking Alpha

    using the hip aductor machine

    YES!

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  50. I am still a noob, missed what DA stands for. From what I understand, I think that there is always a fresh crop of kids coming on to the stage ready to give it a shot. Older guys (and age here is relative) tend to get married or fade away into isolated singletude. That single life may be a protest, I guess, but I think that guys at a certain point just give up. If the new, fresh kids start off “protesting” female companionship, then you’re on to something.

    I wonder how hard it is for the kids these days, growing up in full feminist immersion. They’ll never even know…

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  51. Maurice,
    I saw your post asking just where’d the Beta Male come from, and I think I might have “a” answer.

    I think a lot of it comes from being disconnected from “manly” things. Think about it, how many of us has actually fired a gun? Gone hunting? Roughed it out in the wild? To say nothing of “Man’s Work”, which today we call Blue Collar, or worse, “Prole” work. Sitting in a cubicle, pushing a pencil surrounded by Estrogen all day, ain’t gonna toughen you up.

    That’s what I loved about my job, that it was Men did, Women didn’t want no part of it, and the Women who thought they could hang couldn’t last a week.

    Plus, and I’ve spoken about this before, after I got old enough to walk and talk, I spent most of my time around my Dad, who taught me about being a tradesman. And I went out on camping and hunting trips, fired guns, killed game, worked on my uncles cars, among them a 61 Chrysler Imperial (he had about five cars, all Chrysler/Dodge products; he had the “Blade Charger” and he also had a special modified 70 Super Beetle, w/Dual Webers from a Porsche, colored fire engine red; he called it “El Toro”, The Bull), etc. I spent much of my life working with my hands, doing men’s stuff, hanging around other Men, and I honestly believe a lot of the “Herb” problem stems in him being seperated from manly stuff, sounds simple, I know, but the first thing I always reach for when I wana solve a problem is Occam’s Razor.

    Holla back

    O

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  52. @askjoe – DA = David Alexander, a regular commenter whose life…. well, you’ll see. He is as described – nice enough, smart, but a hopeless, self-confessed, proud beta.

    generation angle nice comment. college-age kids have not been through the ringer so much, and college is the age when women are the easiest. a lot of us here have learned stuff that the young bucks don’t know yet.

    Obs, what say you? Holla back.

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  53. arthukade.com

    alpha or douche?

    Like


  54. leg presses, yeah, I think my gym is too low-key, cheap to appeal to the RESULTs crowd, so it’s all (I guess I will generously call them this) alphas who are in to actually lift and not cleanse their chakras.

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  55. whoops, meant arthurkade.com

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  56. on June 9, 2009 at 2:13 pm ironrailsironweights

    Other trademarks of the species herbisaurus maximus: He goes straight to the leg press machine at the gym because he has no upper body strength. And it’s easy to stack a lot of plates on the leg press without actually exerting much effort.

    In contrast, the special douches bagimus spends an inordinate amount of time doing biceps curls (in the squat rack) and bench presses, as those develop the “beach muscles” which allegedly get chix nice and excited.

    Leg presses can be a fairly hardcore exercise if you use enough weight and a full range of motion. What’s really hardcore is filling the machine’s weight arms with plates and having a couple of guys sit onto the sled to add addition resistance.

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  57. @Obs – posts crossed. Good stuff, agreed, but i don’t think that’s the question i was asking – not where they come from (upper middle class, suburbs, liberal arts colleges, office jobs, feminized social environments, etc.) The questrion was if herb behavior is related at all to the beta men withdrawing from the sexual market, as you have posted on at length over the past few days. Is it a stage toward that, or different? whiskey, thursday? roissy? any views?

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  58. on June 9, 2009 at 2:17 pm ironrailsironweights

    They just do curls with 5lbs pink dumbells, lat pulldown, and jogging. You also see them in the “body pump” classes wailing their arms with a 5lbs dumbells, and plastic step up boxes.

    One of the warm-up exercises for my weekly Muay Thai lessons involves shadowboxing three 3-minute rounds while holding a green 3lb. dumbbell in each hand. After a couple of minutes, I develop a newfound respect for these “sissy” dumbbells, as by then they weigh something like 20 lbs. each … or at least feel that way.

    Peter

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  59. Firepower,

    you’re just as knowledgeable of those obscure scribblers as I am.

    stop pretending to be tough and manly, saying things like “I feel the hunger for immediate vagina, served hot – preferably blond.”

    you get no girls.

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  60. Gay culture is not immune to the cultural rot

    this is one of the most stupid things I ‘ve ever read in this blog.

    take the Bible. measure how far the behaviour in question is far from it. that measure is exactly how rotten the behaviour is. but it also measures how fun the behaviour can be, i.e., anal sex with other man is sick, while if it is with a hot chick it is fun, but both are rotten nonetheless.

    anyway, the Bible is not fun.

    the great insight of the Bible was convincing people that the pursuit of fun would lead them to hell. now we all know that life can be fun now, and the hell will be on Earth, but for the next generation, so , relax and enjoy

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  61. You know, I think the thing is, maybe most guys want to white knight it. You know, what R describes as working is so counter-intuitive for a reason. But remember, he is describing bitter career gals in DC, not all girls. I’ve been lucky enough to date eastern euros, and even the ones with law degrees and bitchy American friends are nice and find white knighting kinda hot. so there you go.

    damn, IRIW, show some respect for the gun show!

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  62. I just re-started going to the gym, and I must concede this one to Roissy.

    If you go when the gym is crowded, it is pretty embarrasing to put on light weights, so it is kind of ego-saving to work out your legs, since any lazy/sedentary/coronarianless guy can put heavy weights in the legs.

    Like


  63. Maurice,
    Oh, OK, I get you now. Well, I’d say, no, I don’t think a withdrawl from the mating grounds is what brings about Herblike behavior, etc. Remember, dude in the photo up top is in the bar, not withdrawing from it.

    I think the withdrawl part comes in later down the line for most Betas (DA notwithstanding), and when it happens, my guess it will be w/a range from hatred to indifference and errthang in between.

    OK, holla back

    O

    Like


  64. The Herb is an evolutionary adaptation to the new Matriarchal Order. They are a product of feminist social engineering. The first prototypes of neutered “worker-ant-males” who pass no genes of their own, but assist their female masters in passing theirs (paired with suitable alpha genes of course).

    Like


  65. it is pretty embarrasing to put on light weights

    One of my first realizations at the gym was that nobody cares what the other guy is doing. It’s in fact the beginners who select high weights on the machines and then pull a tendon.

    But hey, if low weights are embarassing anyway, then just go for the high-reps look: start counting off with “…ninety eight, ninety nine, one hundred!” 🙂

    Like


  66. obsidian

    when I was a kid, my dad brought home goat, for the goat’s feast . It is a hispanic tradition that is pretty barbaric. You raise the goat in your home for a few months, then kill and eat it.

    My father asked me to kill the goat, with a hammer. I, 8 or 9 years at the time, messed everything up. The first try was wrong, and the goat fell on the ground, with convulsions. I kneeled and hit it two more times

    My dad looked at it, turned to my mother, and pretending to be a doctor, pointed at me and said: “it is a boy”. The reason was I behaved like a men, since more effeminate guys would just cry and ask for help once the first try went wrong.

    barbaric traditions are alpha

    Like


  67. Exactly what is the subtle difference between a Beta and a Herb? Is a herb more effete in an SWPL way, while a Beta might be masculine, just a failure with women (i.e. a family-man engineer)?

    Or is it something else?

    Like


  68. My first impression is that DA-style withdrawal is bad. At least betas will try, they just don’t realize that they’re being used. I think that for most guys (and this isn’t even a PUA show boat snob distinction), going to meat markets like a mega-dance club or even Marvin or St. Ex is an act of futility. The internet gives normal guys a lot more options.

    gig, dudes at the gym who can lift aren’t judging you. You learn that there is always someone stronger. The only people I roll my eyes at are the bad form types, lunging with their body weight to do a tricep pull down.

    Like


  69. that nobody cares what the other guy is doing.

    you don’t get the full picture. if it is your first time REALLY, you don’t know how much you can pull.

    either you completely ridicule yourself through girlish weights, or try heavier and risk the ridicule of having to stand up and diminish it.

    it is not the first weeks, it is the very first day when you have no clue about how much you can pull

    Like


  70. i know a trainer who uses hip abductor and adductor machines. he adds them to his routine aggressively for 10 weeks at a time twice a year and then watches his squat weight shoot up.

    Like


  71. gig’s story reminds me of the old joke about the husband and wife trained by the CIA.

    Marriage:

    as a final test, the wife is drugged and and husband sent into the room with a gun that is secretly filled with blanks. The husband is told he must shoot and kill the person in the room. Upon seeing her, he tries to fire the fun, but cannot, running out of the room in tears.

    The CIA grabs and drugs the husband now, and wakes up the wife, and gives her the same instructions. She enters the room, and the CIA hears six shots in rapid succession, followed by incredibly and fast loud thumping with wood breaking.

    The wife emerges from the room, alone, sweating profusely.

    “What happened?” her handler asks her.

    “Well the gun you gave me was full of blanks,” she said. “So I had to beat him to death with the chair.”

    Never get married, boys.

    Like


  72. I’m with PA on the gym – don’t worry about what other people think of your own routine, nobody cares. mix of machines and free weights is best, to keep the muscles confused (i.e., no “memory” from repeated similar motions). not every guy doing curls is a douche, Peter, but if they work *only* on that then you may have a point. I do almost no leg work in the gym (some glutes) but run and bike a lot.

    @Obs – I see what you are saying, and what askjoe said about it being generational – young guys, herb or not, are out in the game, but older guys, esp. as they build assets and start dealing with desperate or demanding cougar-ish women with their biological clocks pealing, may rationally choose to disengage. still, i can’t shake the feeling that the herb is at least first-cousin to the DA celibate somehow. both are out of touch with their own better natures and women’s true needs and desires.

    Like


  73. @gig

    I thought you were brazilian…I’m pretty sure someone mentioned it before..

    Like


  74. Exactly what is the subtle difference between a Beta and a Herb?

    I did a Beta classification in another thread:

    – Herb: an average, inoffensive guy with nothing being really wrong with him, except that he lacks assertiveness, Game, charm, or anything that impresses others as to him being an interesting person. Subspecies: (a) the de-balled family man, (b) the unsure-of-himself single guy

    – SWPL: a snarky, effeminate, arrogant specimen ruled by his status-crazed females. Subspecies: (a) the left wing activist, (b) the chip-on-his-shoulder sulker, (c) the former child-prodigy, or at least womeone who grew up all his life listening to how smart and special he is and hasn’t gotten past that

    – Hipster: the non-alpha varieties are artistically inclined (but rarely artistically-talented) poseurs who compensate for their lack of success in love or career by affecting an artist’s pose.

    – Emo: a withdrawing and sensitive type who wears his emotional scars that stem from an adolescence of abuse by stronger boys as a badge of pride. Subspecies: (a) goths

    – Nerd/Gamer: a broad category of males with very masculine minds and personalities who withdraw from the world of women by pursuing geeky male-oriented interests such as compulsive video gaming

    Like


  75. Gig,
    LOL! That’s a funny goat story. Yea, little boys can be downright cruel, that’s why they gotta be trained early how to channel that inherent aggression. Otherwise, well, we all know the end of that story.

    In my case, I would’ve either shot the goat between the eyes point blank w/my grand dad’s WW2 .45, or, took is head w/a mini-scimitar looking machete. If course, at that age, handling a big gun like a .45 probably wouldn’t be a good idea. So the second option has to do it.

    How’d you feel afterward? And lemme ask all the fellas here-who else has had a kill?

    C’mon ladies, don’t be shy…

    O

    Like


  76. lurker says:

    …“Well the gun you gave me was full of blanks,” she said. “So I had to beat him to death with the chair.”…

    fucking classic example illustrated with humor.

    The sissified male coming to his final, just end with tapioca sweetbreads on his pillow – while wifey likely goes off and fucks the brains out of the handler.

    pick which way you wanna lose ’em

    Like


  77. who else has had a kill?

    As a kid I watched my grandfather in the Old Country slaughter cows with an axe.

    In my 20s, I had a girlfriend who had a small chipmunk-like pet that got sick and she wanted to euthanize it because it got visible tumors appeared to be in perpetual pain. She asked me to do it humanely while she was out of the apartment.

    I wrapped its entire body with a rag, and smashed its head with one blow of a hammer. I liked the little critter so it gave me no pleasure. But it felt good to do the right thing.

    Like


  78. Big O:

    I killed a rabbit once, with my bare hands. I fucked it up a couple of times trying to do it quick (I can only imagine his/her pain.) As soon as I heard the snap I felt my evolutionary instincts to hunt click as well. This was while visiting my grandfather at his ranch.

    Like


  79. well, I have to confess something about the goat. The stupid creature just didn’t die after the second and third tries, and kept convulsing itself

    99% of the boys fail in the first try, and the whole point is what they do next. pre-teen boys, weak arms, weak hammer. I did the “right” thing, tried again and again, and the stupid thing didn’t die.

    my father knew he couldn’t intervene, so we all stopped and looked at the goat. after some 30 seconds that felt like an hour, it finally stopped and died. it was tehn that the “it is a boy”comment came.

    @sylvia the country is far bigger than Rio and Sao Paulo.

    Like


  80. I watched a goat exposed to nerve agent in a training video. Not for the squeamish.

    Like


  81. PA–

    Not a bad taxonomy.

    I think hippsters are probably the most successful betas.

    Hipsters higher betas can actually get casually laid sometimes it seems. Which I suppose calls into question their categorization.

    Of course they are generally treated like dirt by girls before getting laid. They’re just sort of there it seems.

    Like


  82. PA:

    > One of my first realizations at the gym was that nobody cares what the other guy is doing. It’s in fact the beginners who select high weights on the machines and then pull a tendon.

    Bingo. That’s the hurdle that many beta-nerds never jump over WRT making cold-approaches. Literally no one cares about you/ if you fail. The girl won’t remember you five minutes later.

    It’s sad in some ways that this is true… but it’s *enormously* liberating in others.

    Like


  83. on June 9, 2009 at 3:06 pm ironrailsironweights

    not every guy doing curls is a douche, Peter, but if they work *only* on that then you may have a point

    There’s nothing inherently douchy about biceps curls, unless they’re done in the squat rack, but way too many gym-goers obsess over them due to the visibility of developed biceps as compared to most other muscles.

    Peter

    Like


  84. — either you completely ridicule yourself through girlish weights, or try heavier and risk the ridicule of having to stand up and diminish it.

    Again, who gives a crap? no one cares! When I work out alone, I’m inside my own head and ignore everyone else. If I’m working out with a buddy, we’re talking and working out, and ignoring everyone else.

    — it is not the first weeks, it is the very first day when you have no clue about how much you can pull

    Beginners don’t know this, but you are supposed to start out light. The muscles are stronger than the tendons and ligaments. So if you go out like stupid, you’ll hurt yourself.

    At many gyms there are trainers who can get you started out with a workout program that will feel riduculously easy at first. But again, no one else gives a crap.

    I do overhand curls with a freeweights bar, rarely more than 35 pounds. It looks like a sissy weight but I go for reps, so after 2-3 sets, it gets real heavy. And I couldn’t care less that someone sees two little five-pound plates on it!

    Like


  85. on June 9, 2009 at 3:08 pm Cannon's Canon

    “Other trademarks of the species herbisaurus maximus:

    He goes straight to the leg press machine at the gym because he has no upper body strength. And it’s easy to stack a lot of plates on the leg press without actually exerting much effort.”

    Fuck you, Roissy.

    Ten minutes on stationary bike
    3 sets of single leg extensions
    5 sets of squats
    5 sets on leg press machine
    3 sets of hack squats, rep last set til failure

    You don’t make fun of herbs on their legs day. You make fun of them when they’re throwing their hips into their modest dumbbell curls.

    Similar to not making fun of fat girls when they’re jogging… save that trash talk for when they open the jug of Haagen Dazs.

    Like


  86. My first kill was a squirrel.

    This was accomplished with the brand new .22 rife I’d acquired from the Christmas card child exploitation company I’d hooked up with from the back of some magazine.

    I used to tell heart rending stories to girls in HS and college (if they were the receptive kind of girl for this) about the little squirrel, mother that she undoubtedly was, sickeningly slithering down into the high up hole in the old tree fork that was her home, never more able to care for her little pup squirrels. How that made me feel like a very bad man. I got reassured.

    Actually, it didn’t affect me much one way or another.

    Offed a deer once in Vermont. It was a bonding experience with one of my brothers, who was into hunting for a time, unlike me. Too damn boring. You spend forever waiting. Well I guess that’s the bonding part.

    Like


  87. ironrailsironweights Quote:
    “Leg presses can be a fairly hardcore exercise if you use enough weight and a full range of motion…..”

    Correction…
    (AssToGrass) Back Squats + Front Squats = hardcore

    Neither douchbags, frat boys, herbs, do them.
    ———————————–

    ironrailsironweights Quote:
    “One of the warm-up exercises for my weekly Muay Thai lessons involves shadowboxing three 3-minute rounds while holding a green 3lb. dumbbell in each hand. After a couple of minutes, I develop a newfound respect for these “sissy” dumbbells, as by then they weigh something like 20 lbs. each … or at least feel that way.”

    Correction…. A herb’s workout does not come close to the intensity of a Muay Thai warm up.

    Just stop by any commercial gym and look up ‘body pump class’, and u will see the disparity.

    Like


  88. on June 9, 2009 at 3:13 pm Seeking Alpha

    There’s nothing inherently douchy about biceps curls, unless they’re done in the squat rack, but way too many gym-goers obsess over them due to the visibility of developed biceps as compared to most other muscles.

    What’s wrong with using the squat rack? It hits a different part of the muscles using a straight bar, just like hammers hits different than normal curls or concentration curls, etc.

    Like


  89. gig —

    you don’t get the full picture. if it is your first time REALLY, you don’t know how much you can pull.

    either you completely ridicule yourself through girlish weights, or try heavier and risk the ridicule of having to stand up and diminish it.

    it is not the first weeks, it is the very first day when you have no clue about how much you can pull

    If a rank beginner doesn’t have a knowledgeable friend at the same gym, the smart thing would be to hire a personal trainer for three visits or so. That’s all you need to be set up on a routine, with variations, and so good beginning weight settings. Then you’ll start picking other stuff up and trying it.

    Like


  90. on June 9, 2009 at 3:18 pm Cannon's Canon

    gig
    “it is kind of ego-saving to work out your legs, since any lazy/sedentary/coronarianless guy can put heavy weights in the legs.”

    try it next to me; i will crush your ego.

    Like


  91. “scented tub stickers”

    Wow! Cool.

    Like


  92. who else has had a kill?

    I had the chance to live in a tropical country for a few years during my childhood when my dad took on an expat assignment. One time a footlong lizard entered our townhome when I was around 11. Somehow it had made its way all the way up to the second floor. My parents told me to open the balcony door and just chase it away. Instead, after chasing it to the balcony, I pummeled it with the blunt end of a broom stick.

    Like


  93. on June 9, 2009 at 3:28 pm Tupac Chopra

    Seeking Aloha:

    There’s nothing inherently douchy about biceps curls, unless they’re done in the squat rack…

    What’s wrong with using the squat rack?

    Oh.

    So you’re one of those guys.

    Wanker.

    I should have known.

    Like


  94. @aeofe – you’re such a girl. does this mean you’d date the herb in the photo? *loaded question, knows the answer*

    Like


  95. Re: Hunting
    It is hard to understand until you are involved. The first time I went stalking thru a bunch of dense undergrowth looking to bag a 300lb feral hog with a single shot rifle backed up with just a bowie knife I felt an amazing clarity of all 5 senses. It is as if there are huge parts of the brain that never get properly exercised without the dimension of really real, literal life & death, blood & guts.

    Like


  96. on June 9, 2009 at 3:29 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    oh come on. Your leg press comment was just fuckin retarded. A lot of people go to the gym to get a balanced workout instead of just doing variants of curls and bench press until redundancy. Your assumption that people are only working out to show off how much weight they lift is really dumb. A guy who can squat 500+ pounds but can only bench 225 is in way way way better shape(and will look better) than some douche who can bench 300 but has never done a proper barbell squat or deadlift in his training career, and believe me there are a fuckton more in the second category. Working lower body does not equal herb, in fact people who actually squat and deadlift are like the antithesis of herb because those are the most difficult, productive, and dangerous exercised but they work mostly lower body.

    Like


  97. @sylvia the country is far bigger than Rio and Sao Paulo.

    I know. I am brazilian.
    and my name is siiiiiiiiilvia not sylvia ;D

    Like


  98. on June 9, 2009 at 3:31 pm Seeking Alpha

    Tupac –

    I do any exercise my (non-meathead) trainer tells me to do. I forgot to ask the opinion of every judgmental cunt on the Internet before I started my set. I’ll keep you in mind next time.

    Like


  99. on June 9, 2009 at 3:31 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    “Alphas use free weights. Betas use machines.”

    Alphas squat with a barbell, betas hack squat or use some sort of squat machine. Alphas use the leg press with plates, betas use the leg press with a pin.

    Like


  100. on June 9, 2009 at 3:35 pm Tupac Chopra

    SA:

    I forgot to ask the opinion of every judgmental cunt on the Internet before I started my set.

    Maybe next time you’ll consider the opinion of the serious lifters in the gym who need that squat rack for doing heavy, dangerous lifts.

    But considering my opinion is a good start.

    Like


  101. Are satchels always beta? What bag does the alpha wear?

    Like


  102. on June 9, 2009 at 3:38 pm Seeking Alpha

    Maybe next time you’ll consider the opinion of the serious lifters in the gym who need that squat rack for doing heavy, dangerous lifts.

    But considering my opinion is a good start.

    And they can wait their turn like every other guy. You don’t get a monopoly on a piece of equipment for a specific movement as long as you let people work in.

    But in my case it’s a trainer-only gym, so it’s not an issue.

    Like


  103. The herb constantly white knights, subconsciously hoping it will lead to sex.

    I can’t speak for other women here, but there is something so endearing about a man who plays the “white knights” role for me.

    *shrugs shoulders*

    I’m such a girl at times 😦

    Like


  104. @chic – what’s up with the random links on your name? didn’t you used to have a blog?

    also, would you bang one of your white-knight dudes, or is it just nice to have them around to stroke your ego?

    Like


  105. I’m not a huge roissy disciple, but even I’m willing to say, Blazemore, that a ‘satchel’ is ALWAYS shit.

    Just look at your bag. If you think someone could reasonably call it a satchel, don’t use it. But generally, backpacks or laptop bags with form and shape are fine. If it’s floppy, hangs low, and is made out of organic, natural fibers, you’re in bad territory.

    Like


  106. Maurice—

    Is the herb phenomenon, the feminization of educated, urban men, related to the “beta withdrawal” concept put forth by Obs and others? These dudes *think* they’re dating but they’re doing it purely on female terms, often in explicitly non-sexual ways. is this one, or one-half, step removed from the DAs of the world? Is the Great Beta Withdrawal already upon us, happening in gradual stages?

    Or, is it compeltely different in kind? Betas engaging in the social sphere are agreeing to jump through feminist hoops, after all

    The core thing that distinguishes herbs from other betas is that they believe their passivity, non violence and often vegetarianism to boot is a virtue, and makes them more attractive to intelligent, highly educated (and feminism spouting) sorts of women whom they profess to be the ones most worth idealizing. After all these sorts of women tell them that, while doing something different when they have a chance. Most betas may be wimpy to one degree or another, but herbs are trying to max out their wimpy vibe, which they prefer to style as “sensitivity” and “awareness.”

    I don’t think herbs think they’ve withdrawn from the world of dating or anyway hoping to have a girlfriend, or having one. They will generally very much disapprove of serial dating or playing the field though. That is disrespectful to women and douche guy territory. Not our herbs.

    Like


  107. anyone see “The Hangover” yet? How the borderline retarded brother of the bride carried one, and kept insisting “it’s a SATCHEL, not a purse” …? that’s about all you need to know. ridiculed in the hit guy movie of the summer – stay away …

    Like


  108. chic noir–

    I can’t speak for other women here, but there is something so endearing about a man who plays the “white knights” role for me.

    What’s the “endearing” to “got into Chic’s panties” ratio like lately?

    Like


  109. maurice – funniest movie i’ve seen in awhile.

    Like


  110. on June 9, 2009 at 3:56 pm Dr. Grzlickson

    I have several kills. Subzero, Buzzsaw, Fireball. I did let Dynamo get away though.

    Like


  111. How does doing standing curls in a squat rack hit different muscles than doing standing curls outside a squat rack???

    Like


  112. Alpha/beta on weightlifting routines?

    Alpha/beta on slaughtering animals?

    Let’s keep the discussion relevant.

    I tore up my knees in high school sports. I don’t do leg presses, period. Yes, I focus on muscle groups where training isn’t likely to send me to a wheelchair prematurely. Everyone has their reasons for the routine they follow. The much hated “marathoners” and “triathletes” have ample reason to train legs over upper body. The bar-goers who parade around in wife-beaters have ample reason to exclusively train their chest and arms. Live and let live. Any other mentality is distinctively beta.

    Killing animals, likewise, is an extremely nuanced activity. Killing for food is an historically alpha endeavor, but killing for sport conveys no such honor. In the USA, where you can easily consume the meat of any animal without doing the deed yourself, there is little merit in blasting game with your 21st-century rifle. Compassion for lesser creatures is not an indicator of betatude unless the survival of the animal and the survival of the beta are in direct conflict.

    Like


  113. on June 9, 2009 at 4:04 pm Tupac Chopra

    How does doing standing curls in a squat rack hit different muscles than doing standing curls outside a squat rack???

    It spares SA the indignity of having to pick the bar up off the floor. All 55 pounds worth.

    Like


  114. on June 9, 2009 at 4:06 pm Tupac Chopra

    Chic:

    I can’t speak for other women here, but there is something so endearing about a man who plays the “white knights” role for me.

    Does it also make you horny?

    Rhetorical.

    Like


  115. on June 9, 2009 at 4:06 pm Seeking Alpha

    It spares SA the indignity of having to pick the bar up off the floor. All 55 pounds worth.

    That’s all you do for straight bar? Weak.

    Like


  116. Blazemore–

    Are satchels always beta? What bag does the alpha wear?

    I’ve had a somewhat structured heavy black nylon computer bag (no advertising) with a v. lightly padded bottom (the structure) for more than 10 years that I like for causal bagery, when I need something.

    Flaps and dividers and a few little compartments inside, fairly narrow, clean lines outside. Liter or two (hers as well as his) of water, a magazine, a book, deli wraps, all fit easily within. Or without all that crap it’s nice and thin. Then it can be expanded and stuffed like a banshee (with the expandable losing straps) if I’m toting lots of stuff back home or where ever.

    Like


  117. @doug – OK, i’ll buy that. i don’t think there’s any one good answer – i liked PA’s and askjoe’s and obs’s answers as well. i agree that the answer to my question is probably no – herbs are in the game, not out.

    this thread, unexpectedly, has reminded me of a joke an old friend of mine used to use many years ago. we were a bunch of grad students, and one guy got a girlfriend and disappeared from the mix – he was with her all the time, every waking hour. so he said that this guy became an “erichinoida” – the fish species in which the male lives its entire lifespan inside the vagina of the female. i just googled that name and apparently that species name is wrong, but it lives on in my mind that way. so every time this guy’s name would come up, my friend would roll his eyes and say “erichinoida” – “he lives inside a cunt!” – etc.

    i guess that’s another viable description of an herb.

    Like


  118. chic: Get out of here with that b/s. No real man is falling for your crap, especially with you being a 6.

    Like


  119. on June 9, 2009 at 4:08 pm Seeking Alpha

    How does doing standing curls in a squat rack hit different muscles than doing standing curls outside a squat rack???

    It doesn’t Joe. I said straight bar curls hit a different part of the muscle than other types of curls.

    The reason you would do them in the squat rack is if your gym doesn’t have dedicated straight bars for curls, you have to use the squat bar anyway. If you’re going to use the bar, it doesn’t really matter where you use it, does it?

    Like


  120. “Just look at your bag. If you think someone could reasonably call it a satchel, don’t use it. But generally, backpacks or laptop bags with form and shape are fine.”

    There’s a difference between what you carry to work and what you carry out on the prowl. Mens’ pants have pockets. What do you need on your night out that doesn’t fit in your pockets?

    Keys, wallet, mobile. What else do you need?

    Like


  121. @tupac-

    Funny enough a little & makes my heart beat faster too. There is a sort of bonding that takes place when a man saves a woman (or at least with Chic Noir).

    Like


  122. LOL Love the way she pulls him back in to keep beating his ass.

    Like


  123. i am friends with an almost gay Hipster- skinny, artistic, vegan, and he cock blocks me all the time when I try to neg or pickup women in bars.

    But guess what?
    The mother fucker surrounds himself with 7’s and eights— his damn social circle is chock full of hot hipster chicks that are above 7 ‘s! and guess what he FUCKS and fucks and fucks them. Then he dumps them.

    The mother fucker pumps and dumps the hot hipster chicks- personally I think he is 45% gay but he will never come out- either way he fucks more hot pussy than most of us will ever get.

    But you are rights—all of his lays come through social circle- and they come because he acts gay.
    Get a young 22 year old hipster chick fresh to NYC (from the Midwest) get her drunk- and introduce her to some ambivalently sexually men- and the panties come right the fuck off.

    Does it piss me off? Hell fucking yes- my answer- try to act gay in front of these chicks!
    But getting into these social circles is hard as FUCK! Esp if you don’t weigh 120 pounds and know how to dress and act the part.

    But some of these fuckers get LAID!

    Like


  124. @chic – three of us asked you a direct question and you didn’t really answer it. ‘nuf said. white knights are LJBFs who will not get laid.

    @Mr. M – yup, i thought so too. funny concept, written and paced really well, good lines, good cast. i usually don’t like the Seth Rogen type pictures but this one was extremely well done. laughed pretty much the whole way through.

    “yeah, he looked like a Carlos to me too, man…” 🙂

    Like


  125. chic noir–

    There is a sort of bonding that takes place when a man saves a woman (or at least with Chic Noir).

    When the man has genuinely saved her from something significant, especially if all kinds of others weren’t falling all over themselves trying to do it at the same time, then there is something to that, yes. There particularly is if he’s otherwise in the running with her, and what he’s done is display character.

    That’s not what the term “white knighting” really refers to. Instead if refers to competing to make pointless displays of chivalry that aren’t very hard to do and don’t actually impress girls at all.

    Like


  126. on June 9, 2009 at 4:18 pm Seeking Alpha

    That’s not what the term “white knighting” really refers to. Instead if refers to competing to make pointless displays of chivalry that aren’t very hard to do and don’t actually impress girls at all.

    Like Roissy’s example of defending against a neg.

    Like


  127. @doug – the difference is supplicating vs. dominating. a guy who saves a chick from being raped, beat up, falling off a roof, whatever- alpha. (this gets at my thread on the NY club murder of a week or so ago.) the one who opens doors, buys drinks/lunch, does platoinic shit like the guy in today’s Onion link – beta. nothing new here – chic is missing the point and/or blowing smoke.

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  128. Use of the leg press is indeed the hallmark of a twat who doesnt know their way around a gym. But prioritising upper body strength over lower isn’t a hell of a lot better. Real men build their workout around the SQUAT (capitalisation required to signify superiority over all other exercises).

    Like


  129. Teddy Roosevelt disagrees.

    It shows that you’ve got the killer instinct. The killer instinct is Alpha and masculine.

    Like


  130. Re: satchels.

    I read a lot. Paperbacks used conveniently sized to fit in the pocket. Most paperbacks are much bigger now and are called trade paperbacks. I fucking hate them.

    I also write a lot. I’m working on a novel and a collection of essays. There are copious notes.

    How the fuck am I supposed to carry my books, my legal pads, my writing notes, my iPod, etc to the library or coffee shop if I can’t use a satchel or messenger bag?

    Do I carry them in a paper bag? How about a plastic grocery bag? Is that alpha enough? Or is the only alpha option a leather briefcase that so many business douches carry?

    I think context is important. If you’re using a messenger bag for work or for a laptop, that’s fine, but don’t take to a party or bar.

    Like


  131. maurice @chic – three of us asked you a direct question and you didn’t really answer it. ‘nuf said. white knights are LJBFs who will not get laid.

    What???

    I just got here. I’ve read questions from tupac and doug.

    Some men can carry a “man bag” but they need to be ultra masculine to pull it off. The problem with American men is they concern themselves too much with what other people think. You can see it(a weakeness) on their faces as you pass them by on the street. Americans of both genders tend to be bad dressers. We are too sloppy and we love to wear logos.

    http://thesartorialist.blogspot.com/search/label/Men%20New%20York

    Some pics^^^ of men with man bags who range on the scale of masculinity. Bruce Boyer is sporting a Longchamp bag, I’m about 60% sure that’s a woman’s bag.

    Like


  132. Gooch –

    wear a backpack. have some self-respect.

    Like


  133. on June 9, 2009 at 4:33 pm David on ipod

    David admittedly walks around with his Manhattan Portage messenger bag but I usually carry my photo equipment or books inside.

    As for being a herb, for some of us, it’s far easier than using game and this is our version of opting out. In other words, if you don’t use game, you might as well take advantage, have your fun and enjoy the platonic relationship. Why do something that you suck at?

    So while somebody else maybe having sex with non-date, I still get to have my fun with her with little effort on my part. And with pump and dump, there is a steady supply of women looking for a friend. The smart thing to do is to maintain a large number of friends to keep yourself occupied. One could call it herb game…

    Like


  134. I’m sure most of you have read The Game by Neil Strauss, and if you have, you’ll noticed he used to carry a bag (prop bag) around clubs, just for the sake of practicing everything in game.

    His arsenal included:

    1 pack of gum
    1 pack of condoms
    1 pencil, 1 pen
    1 piece of dryer lint (dryer lint opener.)
    1 envelope of preselected photos.(mystery photo routine)
    1 digital camera
    1 box of tic tacs (indian giver routine)
    lip balm, coverup,eyeliner blotting paper (optional male makeup…yea i know very dandy.)
    1 cheat sheet 3 pages ( favorite routines and lines)
    1 set of wooden runes in a cloth bag
    1 notebook
    1 krytolight necklace (peacocking)
    2 sets of fake ear and lip piercings (optional adornment)
    1 small digital recorder
    2 spare cheap necklaces, 2 spare thumb rings (for anchoring target)
    1 small blacklight
    4 sample bottles of different colognes.
    Various magic tricks(forks, cigs, and levitation.)

    Like


  135. on June 9, 2009 at 4:34 pm Tupac Chopra

    Real men build their workout around the SQUAT

    Seeking Alpha builds his workout around the squat RACK.

    He’s a squat rack TRAITOR!!!!!!

    Like


  136. on June 9, 2009 at 4:39 pm Seeking Alpha

    Use of the leg press is indeed the hallmark of a twat who doesnt know their way around a gym. But prioritising upper body strength over lower isn’t a hell of a lot better. Real men build their workout around the SQUAT (capitalisation required to signify superiority over all other exercises).

    Any suggestions for someone with a bad knee? If I do any kind of weight for squat / leg press / extension (anything that puts pressure on the knee) my knee gets inflamed and I have to ice it and rest it to get it back down.

    Like


  137. Wonka–

    I’m not a huge roissy disciple

    Why not?

    You don’t have to be into picking up and banging in the triple digits to get a whole lot out of Roissy’s as a man.

    Most of the guys here probably have no such ambition in fact.

    Like


  138. maurice chic is missing the point and/or blowing smoke.
    Not so, the difference wasn’t highlighted. I(chic) like all types of white knighting. I’m well aware of the fact that many American women are indifferent too it. I witnessed it first hand and notice how I wrote CHIC NOIR LIKES WHITE KNIGHTING.

    a guy who saves a chick from being raped, beat up, falling off a roof, whatever- alpha.
    When I wrote about bonding, I was thinking about this line of white knighting.

    doug Instead if refers to competing to make pointless displays of chivalry that aren’t very hard to do and don’t actually impress girls at all.

    Thanks Doug 🙂
    Okay I learned something new today. Doug, I thought white knighting covered opening doors and well as physically protecting women.

    Like


  139. When it comes to offing biggish fish in the back of my largish sailboat though, I’m strictly a rum or vodka man.

    You all can be as blood and guts macho as you like. Myself, I find it’s WAY too much mess that way. Besides, barracuda for example are not to be messed with.

    Like


  140. collegeboy
    chic: Get out of here with that b/s. No real man is falling for your crap, especially with you being a 6.

    😈

    Well being that you are still a boy, collegeboy, it seems you don’t know much about what makes a real man. Now just keep quiet& take notes, maybe you will learn a bit from kamal,doug, PA and MU.

    Like


  141. Seeking Alpha –

    whats wrong with your knee, exactly?

    Like


  142. >Any suggestions for someone with a bad knee? If I do any >kind of weight for squat / leg press / extension (anything >that puts pressure on the knee) my knee gets inflamed and >I have to ice it and rest it to get it back down.

    Squats are supposed to help with knee problems, espiecally pain resulting from old injuries like (healed) shattered knee caps and things like that. Have you tried squatting without weight before easing yourself into a weighted squat? The commenters above are correct in saying that squats will greatly improve your routine.

    Like


  143. chic may just be saying that she likes a guy who makes her feel safe, has nice biceps to grab, and stuff like that. Does that get the White Knight laid? I would think so if he actually made a play. If you want her to jump you, that’s beta.

    Also, on the beta/herb thing. I am looking at it like this, betas are puppy dogs to girls they like and generally act all wrong. R’s term omega (which is different than omega men) is a guy who is flat out unattractive. herbs are guys that have a girl, but has lost his sense of self in the deal. and maybe let themselves go to seed. They want a mommy. They will get dumped hard, or cheated on.

    Hipster douchebags, including prancing, mincing 120 pound men who manage to score chicks are alpha because they score…they may not be an alpha like Putin or W, but they’re able to score through “cocking.”

    R (and most of us, I guess) would like to be an alpha without submitting ourselves to complete body/personality overhauls (”peacocking”) like taking steroids to be 240 pound musclebeasts, hipster douchebags, or Arthur Kade.

    Real alphas are men who are simply good looking or talented and women vie for their affection. I’ve had friends like this, you can’t do it.

    Like


  144. @Doug1

    It’s not the emphasis on picking up women that keeps me from embracing roissydom.

    I can’t entirely agree with him because his views on women/men seem inextricably linked to his views on politics at large. What roissy has yet to explain is how I can be liberal and yet agree with 90% of his views on marriage, divorce laws, and the abhorrent feminization of males. He blames liberals for these trends, and I’ve been complaining about them for a loooong time while also being near socialist. For me, roissy is missing something because his world view seems to suggest I don’t exist.

    Like


  145. @chic – the question was simple: do the “endearing” white-knight guys get in your pants? you didn’t answer, instead wrote something like “why give it away so early”. that’s what i meant by “blowing smoke”.

    Like


  146. chic:

    I just like any other guy here, is at roissy’s to learn. No matter what the age. I have no problem here “taking notes” as you say. Most boys, guys, and men, have a reason to be here. Whats yours?

    Like


  147. @wonka – maybe it’s the liberal views that need to change. or at least evolve. they usually do. as the old joke goes, if you’re not a liberal at 17, you have no heart, but if you’re not a conservative at 40, you’ve got no brain. if you get the damage that feminism – a core plank of liberalism- has done to society, then you’re that much more ahead of the curve.

    Like


  148. The ambiguous sexuality artsy hipster has the ‘indeifferent’ air about him that is one component of triggering attraction (like that of teh Alpha male’s indifference to the hottie making her want him all the more).

    Like


  149. @km – i think the androgynous rock-stars of the 60s and 70s (David Bowie, etc.) channel that vibe too.

    Like


  150. on June 9, 2009 at 5:01 pm Seeking Alpha

    whats wrong with your knee, exactly?

    I forget what the doctor called it. Basically, when I over-exert it, or keep it bent for a long time, like stuck in the back of a small car, the tissue underneath the kneecap would become inflamed, making it stiff and sore.

    I’ve tried adding in and taking out various parts of my routine to figure out what effects it and what doesn’t. Running doesn’t. Jump rope doesn’t. Squats, extensions, press do.

    Out of curiosity, why do you guys think squats are so important? From the cardio I do, and from genetics, I don’t have skinny legs, so I don’t look ‘unbalanced’ the way some guys do.

    Like


  151. on June 9, 2009 at 5:06 pm Cannon's Canon

    Squat rack traitor:
    Try some front squats. Or, ask the trainer in your trainer-only gym who you pay to watch you do straight bar curls off the squat rack.

    A cursory fundamental analysis suggests that your trainer’s P/E ratio is through the roof. I suggest you step up your due diligence next time before signing any contracts.

    Like


  152. Since I was a messenger as a kid, I’ve always carried satchels. All messengers carried them, along with the radio strapped to the chest, and we weren’t seen as having a very beta job (actually, it was one of the most dangerous jobs in town). They are more comfortable on a bike than backpacks, because you can swing them around to your back or your side as needed.

    I guess it’s a sad commentary that messenger gear has been appropriated by weenies, but I’m not going to let the weenies define me either way, so the satchel stays.

    Actually, at this point in my life, I am so beyond caring what other people think of me that I would ride a pink bicycle if that’s all I had to get around (fortunately, however, that is not yet the case).

    Like


  153. @Seeking Alpha

    Check out Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe which gives great insight on proper execution of squats, as well as other broad-based exercises that should be the core of any weight-lifting program (deadlift, pull ups, bench).

    Too much to go into here but squats properly executed (i.e. full, deep squats, not half or quarter) should have no impact on your knees as the tension between the hams and quads offset each other. Also important is proper knee and foot alignment (i.e. they should be both pointing in the same direction) and stance – approximate shoulder width with feet at 30 degrees. Also tensed, arched lower back, head looking slightly down, and be sure NOT to pause at the bottom of the squat – use the bounce. Practicing technique without weight is critical to train muscle memory…

    Anyway, check out Rippetoe. Knows his stuff.

    B

    Like


  154. on June 9, 2009 at 5:11 pm Seeking Alpha

    Cannon

    Try some front squats

    Why would that make a difference? It’d still be weight on the knee, right?

    I don’t really get the rest of what you’re saying though. Your insult could presumably be aimed at any trainer. ‘You pay them to watch you work out.’

    I’ve been working out with the same two trainers – brothers – for ten years, and they train both pro-athletes and the local football team starters. What should I be mad about? That he didn’t risk fucking up my knee again so my thighs could be a bit bigger?

    Like


  155. “Any suggestions for someone with a bad knee?”

    Either work through it with ice and rhino doses of ibuprofen, or if its too severe get a diagnosis. Then get it fixed or if theres nothing that can be done then there’s nothing that can be done. You will have been dealt a bad hand and will miss out on the best testosterone booster short of chewing a bull’s sack.

    Like


  156. @Seeking Alpha RE: “Out of curiosity, why do you guys think squats are so important?”

    The human body is not meant to have muscle groups trained in isolation. The squat is by far the one exercise that works the most muscle mass in the body. The dead is second.

    Like


  157. on June 9, 2009 at 5:15 pm Seeking Alpha

    and will miss out on the best testosterone booster short of chewing a bull’s sack.

    Squats specifically build/produce more testosterone than other lifts? Is that specific to the muscle group or the exertion involved?

    Like


  158. on June 9, 2009 at 5:17 pm Seeking Alpha

    The human body is not meant to have muscle groups trained in isolation. The squat is by far the one exercise that works the most muscle mass in the body. The dead is second.

    That definitely makes sense. Could you link to something backing it up? I’d be interested to read more about it.

    Like


  159. The largest muscle groups are enlisted with the largest range of motion with (except for the deadlift which has more restricted range of motion and recovery issues) the largest weights. This causes the largest increase in testosterone. Its science…

    Like


  160. on June 9, 2009 at 5:21 pm Seeking Alpha

    The largest muscle groups are enlisted with the largest range of motion with (except for the deadlift which has more restricted range of motion and recovery issues) the largest weights. This causes the largest increase in testosterone.

    So it’s not a question of the movement per se? It’s more that any muscle you work – no matter which muscle – will increase testosterone in proportion to the size of the muscle group being worked?

    Its science…

    I must have slept through my muscular biology classes at business school… no need to jump on someone for trying to learn more.

    Like


  161. Game in BK

    “i am friends with an almost gay Hipster- skinny, artistic, vegan, and he cock blocks me all the time when I try to neg or pickup women in bars.

    But guess what?
    The mother fucker surrounds himself with 7’s and eights— his damn social circle is chock full of hot hipster chicks that are above 7 ‘s! and guess what he FUCKS and fucks and fucks them. Then he dumps them.”

    I don’t doubt it.

    I have met guys like this before. And yes they usually do turn out gay.

    Hipster girls in my opinion are a horrible target.

    Sure they can be sometimes pretty fly, but bottom line, they like feminine, pseudo-gay, hipster/wimpster guys.

    – MPM

    Like


  162. “I must have slept through my muscular biology classes at business school… no need to jump on someone for trying to learn more.”

    Not tyring to jump on you, its just that I cant help quoting Anchorman.

    “So it’s not a question of the movement per se?”

    All the things I mentioned are a function of the movement.

    Like


  163. `slightly off-topic… i don’t know if any of you read nymag.com’s sex diaries, but this is an off-shoot blog that’s a real doozy: http://www.therealladyinred.blogspot.com/?zx=f16f9224a8d603fa

    this 33-year-old nyc woman has had sex with 12+ men in the past month since breaking up with her boyfriend, the reason she broke up being that she wasn’t willing to give up her independence and move, and neither was he, in a long-distance relationship. even though she obviously loves him.

    she does some really grimy shit, like have sex in a bathroom stall with a tourist. and then there’s a black jazz musician she just met that she lets drive her home, makes out with him, etc., but apparently she’s turned off because he’s “too old” for her. i say 33-year-olds aren’t really in a place to say that.

    the epitome of the neurotic career woman that roissy talks about, who can’t deal with her emotions and instead fucks them away.

    Like


  164. yeah, they say that about squats, testosterone. Probably makes you bald too. There is the point, though, about working out big groups versus isolated muscles that jumping on a nautilus machine and hitting one leg muscle is stupid and, apparently, betahood.
    I concur with SA that cardio and unweighted squats and lunges have given me decent legs.

    Like


  165. Blazemore

    “Are satchels always beta?”

    Yes.

    “What bag does the alpha wear?”

    None.

    Especially to a bar.

    – MPM

    Like


  166. Seeking Alpha –

    I know where you’re coming from…I’ve got a pretty weak left knee from a HS sports injury. However, I still try to do squats, just can’t get the full deep range of motion (I stop when my shin/thighs make an ALMOST 90 degree angle).

    There’s a lot of things you can try to get squats into your routine. The easiest being a band-aid type solution, a knee brace.

    Have you tried yoga? I found it helpful in increasing my knee-joint’s flexibility/reduction of pain, while strengthening the joint itself.

    As for the benefits of squats; no other single exercise hits your quads/ass/abs/back/shoulders in one fell swoop. While you could isolate these, I think having the body learn to use these simultaneously is the real benefit.

    Like


  167. @fmlr – another prime candidate for “Tramp of the Month”. What say you, roissy? Any interest in a regular feature like that to showcase the most outrageous female specimens?

    Like


  168. Wonka–

    I can’t entirely agree with him because his views on women/men seem inextricably linked to his views on politics at large. What roissy has yet to explain is how I can be liberal and yet agree with 90% of his views on marriage, divorce laws, and the abhorrent feminization of males. He blames liberals for these trends, and I’ve been complaining about them for a loooong time while also being near socialist.

    Interesting.

    I don’t think it’s impossible to be a liberal and still think Roissy’s key points on gender realism and the rest you mention are right. There’s a certain friction, but not an impossibility, I think. It’s sort of like being a HBD realist but still being in favor of affirmative action for blacks. Not impossible but there’s a certain friction.

    I’m actually not on the right on a bunch of different things. What I am is thoroughly against leftist dogma, virtually all of it, it’s so suffused with lies and misrepresentation, but not all left derived policies. Tax policy for example. Inheritance taxes. I think there is something to be said for each generation building up it’s own wealth or not, as opposed to a vast inheriting class that inherits big. Course that happens anyway, through various mechanisms, trusts etc. Let’s not go there on here though.

    So actually. What is your view of affirmative action in it’s various forms for women.

    Like


  169. on June 9, 2009 at 5:30 pm Seeking Alpha

    All the things I mentioned are a function of the movement.

    I know, I just meant that, there’s nothing extra special about the squat. In other words, (making up numbers) if a squat works 30lbs of muscle group and a bench works 15lbs of muscle group, then a squat builds 2x the testosterone of a bench press, not 3x or 4x.

    In business-speak, there is no special synergy to the squat.

    I’m going to give some unweighted squats a try at the gym tonight and see how it works out. Hopefully it won’t be a problem.

    Like


  170. lolz @havana: “Roissy Herbs don’t even do leg presses, they never train legs.”

    Ultimate Herb weight exercise is to do that weird hybrid lateral raise/crabbing move where they hold their pink DB’s out sorta in front of them and flap their elbows like they’re a funky chicken. Preferably in a wife beater, while making little squeaky grunting sounds.

    Proper shoulder exercise: using blonde or japanese dumbells for presses. For cool downs, of course, after you did your 2+ wheel presses.

    Like


  171. @ chic noir

    I get what you’re saying. I, too, enjoy being saved from burning buildings or falling bridges. I don’t see that as the same as “white knighting,” though. Haha, I just thought of an example:

    A couple of nights ago, I was at a bar in SF with my boyfriend. My boyfriend, who is 30-going-on-10, was spitting water on me with his straw. I got all “annoyed” and huffed off in fake exasperation, and some guy immediately swept in with a line about how he didn’t think it was a good idea to spit water on a girl if you wanted to get her attention. I was kind of laughing, because, well, yeah…but he was obviously trying to gain my interest by letting me know how he was more of a gentleman than that.

    I told him that, yeah, spitting water on a girl was a good way to get her wet.

    I don’t think he got it. He told me that he thought it was very “immature” and that “that guy” obviously didn’t know how to “pick up a girl like myself” who was “so hot that I could obviously go up to any guy in the bar and take him home with me.” (Then my boyfriend came back, went all neanderthal on me and yanked me over to him by the hair, and I think the other guy actually called security. Because a few minutes later, security showed up to make sure the boyfriend wasn’t beating me up, or something. Really.)

    Anyway, my point is that, even if it hadn’t been my boyfriend that the guy was trying to “save” me from, I was totally turned off by his approach. Not sexy!

    Re: Messenger bags

    I can feel these if you’re just carrying around like, a laptop or something. I know a lot of guys with manly messenger bags. Men should not ever carry bags into clubs though.

    @Ed

    “Either work through it with ice and rhino doses of ibuprofen”

    Hmm, don’t mess too much with knee problems, yo.

    Like


  172. on June 9, 2009 at 5:34 pm Virginia Gentleman

    Obsidian:

    This’ll probably be more for comedy than anything else given the match-up, but here goes. A few years back, my father and I were readying his big lawnmower for use when we realized that something had eaten various cables from the battery. About that time, some mice starting making a run for it from underneath the mower. Between the two of us, a pair of adult males, we managed to squash half a dozen or so of them. Probably looked like Super Mario Bros. for a minute or so.

    The recently-born young mice that we found shortly thereafter were dumped near a wooded area on the property. All concerned probably wound up in something’s stomach before the next morning. Message? Neither property damage nor posing a threat to the infrastructure are acceptable and carry the death penalty.

    Like


  173. maurice–

    as the old joke goes, if you’re not a liberal at 17, you have no heart, but if you’re not a conservative at 40, you’ve got no brain.

    Winston Churchill famously said that (upon switching parties).

    Probably predated him though.

    Like


  174. maurice

    @chic – the question was simple: do the “endearing” white-knight guys get in your pnts?

    The two men who were lucky enough were both the white-knight types.

    As I’ve said many times before, there is no way in hell I would be in a relationship with a man who won’t protect me.

    college boy Whats yours?
    *squeezes collegeboy’s cheek*
    originally it was to learn about men. Now it’s more about the comments and to give you another view of the female side .
    I apologize if I can across a bit harsh earlier.

    welmer Actually, at this point in my life, I am so beyond caring what other people think of me that I would ride a pink bicycle if that’s all I had to get around

    you will be different and women will chase you if you give off a masculine energy and not giving darn what other people think.

    Like


  175. on June 9, 2009 at 5:42 pm Cannon's Canon

    Squat rack traitor:

    The benefit of front squats for those with dainty knees:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19002072?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

    If you are absolutely adverse to the real thing, you can always break out the sled pulls outside.

    As for your trainer’s pedigree, it has little bearing on what he is helping you accomplish. To be fair, I’m sure he’s giving you what you asked for. His athlete clients train for performance, while you are training to “look better.”

    Straight bar curls are inferior to dumbbell curls for two reasons: your stronger arm compensates for a lack of symmetry, and you use less stabilizing muscles to achieve the same range of motion. This might SEEM trivial, but you will never, EVER read about straight bar curls in a Muscular Development article. Any football team with that strength and conditioning routine is, well, playing their games in Greenwich, Connecticut.

    Like


  176. @Seeking Alpha: “In business-speak, there is no special synergy to the squat.”

    You need a new personal trainer, dude. You don’t have to squat. You can also do deadlifts. Personally, I like trap bar deadlifts, though I also like squats. Bench pressing is not a useful replacement for squats. If you want to replace squats because of some kind of injury to your knee, and you’re too chicken to deadlift, use the push press. At least it’s a whole body exercise.

    Squats are pretty technical, and there are all kinds of squat variants; front, back, overhead, olympic style, power lift style. If you can’t squat, deadlift. If you can’t squat or deadlift or push press, at least stay out of the goddamned squat cage.

    Personally, I see weight lifting as exercise for my back and shoulders. Bench pressing is almost entirely a cosmetic exercise. The only way you’ll build muscle on a bench-only program is if you take steroids; you don’t get the growth hormone and testosterone boost from pushing a barbell off your chest.

    Like


  177. LILGRL–

    Men should not ever carry bags into clubs though.

    I suppose some guys do have to be told things like that.

    Witness Roissy’s pic today.

    Like


  178. lilgirl Then my boyfriend came back, went all neanderthal on me and yanked me over to him by the hair, and I think the other guy actually called security

    😯

    Oh, it would go down. I don’t like stuff like this boyfriend or husband. I’m not a fan of wrestling with the boyfriend either because it can turn serious in a heart beat.

    Like


  179. on June 9, 2009 at 5:48 pm Cannon's Canon

    askjoe
    “I concur with SA that cardio and unweighted squats and lunges have given me decent legs.”

    Branch Warren DOES NOT APPROVE!

    Like


  180. chic noir asserts:

    Most of us can’t hold out own in a fist fight against a larger male like “elevator girl”.

    damn right girlie – “elevator girl” is Asian. everybody understands they all know Kung Fu from birth. Plus – as in the video – they always go straight for The Balls

    Like


  181. @ chic noir

    “I’m not a fan of wrestling with the boyfriend either because it can turn serious in a heart beat.”

    Awww, really?

    Like


  182. Virginia Gentleman
    Between the two of us, a pair of adult males, we managed to squash half a dozen or so of them

    Would you believe that some men run from mice? I once had a guy jump behind me as a mouse ran across the floor.

    SHM he was nice looking man too.

    I just didn’t see him in the same light after that.

    Like


  183. @doug- a realted political joke – i think this one was from eugene mccarthy – that when john connally, governor of Texas, switched parties from Dem to GOP it was a great moment for American democracy because it increased the average intelligence of both parties. (Ouch!)

    @chic – only two? in your whole life? you can’t mean that …

    @lilgrl – good thing you ahave a boyfriend after that move to SF – it’s SWPL heaven.

    Like


  184. dam, lilgrl, I hate chaperone guys like that. You and your bf are having fun and dude runs beta game like that. “Oh, your bf treats you wrong, blah blah blah.” It actually works everynow and then. not for beta, but it does hurt relationships.

    Like


  185. on June 9, 2009 at 5:55 pm Seeking Alpha

    Cannon

    I trade treasuries different than corporate bonds.

    They train high school football students different than adults trying to – as you said – ‘look good’.

    But let’s be real… it’s kind of catty to be sending insults over some message board on the Internet at someone trying to learn. Help out or stay quiet.

    Getting back to questions, you don’t think straight bar curl adds any benefit to a workout routine? I was under the impression that – if nothing else – it’s good to switch up your movements for diversity’s sake. Is it really detrimental to make every seventh bicep movement a straight bar?

    Lupo

    Bench and squat work different muscle groups so they can’t be a substitute. What I was asking Ed was whether – from a testosterone building point of view there was any difference, other than the size of the muscle groups being worked.

    I don’t know anyone who does bench only. But I’m not sure I understand why you’d be against bench press?

    From an aesthetic perspective, you’d want to work out all muscle groups – back, shoulders, arms, bench. It’d look just as stupid to have big shoulders with a smaller chest as it would to have a giant upper body and a small lower body.

    Like


  186. @Seeking Alpha

    Learn about proper form BEFORE you start doing squats.

    (Why practice without weight without proper form?)

    Again, check out Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe.

    @Lupo

    Absolutely correct, squats properly done are highly technical. But learning variants is unneccessary, especially for general strength training. Also, you’re right, the squat & deadlift should be core exercises in any routine.

    B

    Like


  187. SA, you could always just do P90X. It hits everything, but nothing gets too big. I try to keep my physique just a shade smaller than Branch Warren.

    Like


  188. on June 9, 2009 at 6:00 pm Seeking Alpha

    Learn about proper form BEFORE you start doing squats.

    (Why practice without weight without proper form?)

    That’s what a trainer is for. You can disagree about the composition of a workout routine (even two meatheads will), but a good trainer knows good form, period.

    Like


  189. @joe – that dude seems like more of a beta than she is a tramp. i mean, murdering a chick who wants to leave you? abundance, not scarcity. they had two kids which complicates things though.

    Like


  190. @ askjoe

    SRSLY.

    Like


  191. on June 9, 2009 at 6:07 pm Babaero Serrada

    LilGrl said, “Because a few minutes later, security showed up to make sure the boyfriend wasn’t beating me up, or something. Really.)”
    –> they “showed up?”
    what, did he drag you into the coatcheck?

    (…and without even taking you on a nice date first, how unforgiveably rude)

    Gig said, “either you completely ridicule yourself through girlish weights, or try heavier and risk the ridicule of having to stand up and diminish it.”

    –> sensitive much?
    if this is all you need to feel “ridiculed,” then your’e absolutely hopeless.
    If someone is lifting “girlish weights” the default is assume that he’s warming up, or rehabb’ing an injury. If you think this is ridicule, then you’re just wrong. wrong. sorry.
    The last time anyone gave a shat how much I was lifting was in high school football max testing.
    Maybe it’s different in brazil.

    Like


  192. “I notice the herb is wearing glasses. Is that inherently beta? I’m trying to think of an alpha with glasses and its not coming to me..”

    The observation can be made that worrying about whether or not wearing glasses is beta, is indeed beta.

    Like


  193. Chic Noir–

    Oh, it would go down. I don’t like stuff like this boyfriend or husband. I’m not a fan of wrestling with the boyfriend either because it can turn serious in a heart beat.

    Take a look at LILGRL’s blog. She’s got a pic of her bf near the top post now. Couple down or so. Good and alpha looking guy. Apparently brainy too. She CLAIMS he first won her heart by answer her question “how old are you anyway” in hex, without saying that’s what he’d done. As I said, “claims”.

    I realize that doesn’t directly address you’re not liking roughhousing point, but it sorta does. In a Roissy kind of way.

    Like


  194. If anyone wants to see a perfect example of the modern, fucked-up little girl, that most of us Beta men have to deal with on a daily basis — Take a gander at LILGRL’s vomit on a webpage, which she calls her blog.

    http://lilgrl.wordpress.com/

    Go away attention whore. You have nothing to add to a discussion between men.

    Like


  195. @ Babaero Serrada

    Heh.

    You figure that out.

    @ Doug1

    “She CLAIMS he first won her heart by answer her question “how old are you anyway” in hex, without saying that’s what he’d done. As I said, “claims”.”

    He doesn’t believe me, either.

    Like


  196. what? a pickup line involving numbers in hex? no way, unless lilgrl is actually a japanese fembot of the type that roissy advocates. or a super female nerd, which would not be congruent with her posts here. the dude does kinda look like the type who would flick water on his girlfriend in a bar – and i mean that in the best possible way. congrats to the happy couple on the move.

    Like


  197. @Seeking Alpha ” What I was asking Ed was whether – from a testosterone building point of view there was any difference, other than the size of the muscle groups being worked.”

    I realize that, and I was answering that. Benching will not raise your GH or T at all. I don’t know or care if it’s ever been measured in a lab (I’m sure it has, actually): I can tell you it’s the truth, as sure as the sky is blue, and the end of my nose. Whole body exercise like squats, push presses and deadlifts activate something the old timers call the “grow or die” response. It’s a cascade of hormonal responses that cause your muscles to grow all over your body. That’s why every single weight program before steroids involved doing lots of heavy squats. Squats = man drugs for your body.

    “I don’t know anyone who does bench only. But I’m not sure I understand why you’d be against bench press?”

    High risk, low reward; most gym injuries are going to be shoulder capsule related from benching. It’s a particular concern to me, because I have ape-like long arms. Touching the BB to my chest would be a recipe for bursitis. I do my share, but it’s purely for aesthetic reasons, and I do not do regular benching. I prefer incline, neck and DB presses off the bench.

    Personally, I lift weights mostly for health reasons. I look much younger than I am from all the GH and T I get from lifting. Secondary in consideration is having absurd strength for every day superman type awesomeness; I started lifting because the BJJ dudes I was rolling with were mostly stronger than me. At this point, I can bend nails, pick up and throw people who annoy me, and have lifted small automobiles. Not bad for an aging nerd. Gross body aesthetics are a tertiary consideration. I’d rather be strong and healthy than some kind of underpants model who appeals to poufs and women with crotch-anesthesia who think a man should wax his chest. But hey; that’s just me.

    Like


  198. interesting stuff, lupo.

    Like


  199. @ maurice

    “or a super female nerd, which would not be congruent with her posts here.”

    Aww, no faith in my uber-nerdiness? As I type this, I’m discussing, with my boyfriend, whether I should work for PC World or Wired.

    In his words: “Yeah, well, I’m not sure I can handle you being around all those Alphas.”

    Like


  200. Anyone else think Lilgrls bf, at least in that picture, looks like Brad from the Real World/Challenge/Duel thing?

    Like


  201. The satchel contains my date rape kit. For later that night.

    Like


  202. OK, time to jump bac in.

    DA: glad to see you back in (in)action. Are you serious tryin’ to peddle “Herb Game”? I think they already beat you to the punch on that one, Dave; they call such dudes SUCKERS.

    Back on the man-Purse: this “satchel” business, where’d that come from? What these dudes are carrying around, they’re not “satchels”. A satchel is made out of leather for one thing, and is often bigger than a lot of the MPs these dudes are carrying around, looking like Women. Also, the only guys for real who carried satchels back in the day (40s, 50s & 60s) were either lawyers or insurance men. Kenneth Cole had a really nice black leather satchel that was in that “back in the day” vintage look, and I always told myself that one day, I was gonna cop one. Gotta accessorize. But a dreaded Man-Purse, it most assuredly, is NOT.

    On the Imortance of the Hunt, & the Kill: first off gentlemen, in case you didn’t get the memo, let me break it down to you: Women are *seriously* attracted to violent men.

    That’s, right, you heard me. Let me say it again:

    Women are *seriously* (read, mad sexally) attracted to VIOLENT Men.

    Now, lemme explain why and how, etc.

    Waaaaay back in the caveman days, Women had to have ways to know that dude she was letting crawl between her thighs, had the goods in case someone else, Man or Beast, came callin’; not only would said Woman be in a bit of a jam tryin’ to protect herself, but all the moreso if little ones were around.

    The cave dudes who kicked the most ass and cracked the most skuls tended to get the most females. Period. So, as time went on, Women developed an evolutionary soft spot for the kinds of guys who will not hesitate to kick ass and take names.

    Simple as that.

    If you look around in our time, why do Women have a weakness for “men in uniform”? Because, such men have been “approved” to be able to be quite violent if need be; in other words, the uniform, be it military or police, serves as a proxy for that caveman thing.

    Of course, it ain’t just cops and GI Joe that’s gettin’ trim; so too are gangbangers, serial killers, and the like, too. Of course, that shit is not only foul but kinda sick on its face, but when you go back t what I said earlier, it really makes sense.

    Let me also say, that Women cannot help their animal attraction to violent men. They will get very, very wet knowing their Man can, in a heartbeat, take the head of an intruder.

    Remember that whole thing w/Chris Brown and Rihanna? Part of that whole thing is what I’m breaking down, right now. Of course, Brown being a youngbuck, he wasn’t properly trained in the ways of a Woman, and handled the situation in a wrong way; what he should have been, is light that ass up in the bedroom, because Rihanna is that kind of female who likes her Man to fuck her w/authority, to dominate her, and to make it hurt just a bit.

    But, all that’s covered in the Kama Sutra. Ain’t none of this new, fellas.

    OK, so what does all this have to do w/the hunt, the kill? A lot.

    First of all hunting in just about all cultures was an important Rite of Passage on the way to Manhood. Being connected w/Nature, and understanding the Circle of Life and Death, is very profound to contemplate.
    When a boy gets his first kill, its like he’s taking his first steps into a new world. You understand all of this in ways that aren’t always easy to put into words. But a few of you, in relaying your stories, its in there.

    Well, a Woman gets excited when you go out and bring back fresh meat (or fish). As always, don’t pay attention to her chattering, inside something primal has been switched on in her, and she starts to get moist. Every Woman I’ve ever had LOVED that shit, and none of em ain’t never come near a dead anything unless it was shrink wrapped in the supermarket. Try it out, you’ll see. Go out fishin’ and bag a good sized one, get a couple, and bring em back for to clean up. She’ll love you for that shit. Watch her wet her pussy is later on that night.

    So, I can understand, in a way, why Chic would say what she did about a Man saving a Woman from being raped, etc. Actually, she gets TURNED ON by a Man displaying AN APPROPRIATE USE OF VIOLENCE. And don’t expect Chic to explain it, most Women have little if any understanding of themselves at her age.

    OK, I’ll hold here. Any questions, holla back

    O

    Like


  203. @lilgrl – i’d go for wired, even though both are in trouble as old media. strangely, conde nast separates the wired website from the parent magazine. and i think the website is run out of NY. i met chris anderson a few months ago at a conference in DC – he was as cool as you’d expect. it would be an awesome place to work. no alphas, though – bf is wrong. and i still don’t believe the hex line – no way.

    have you considered tech blogs like gigaom or paid content? they hire writers and researchers, though you have to know a lot about the sector you’d be writing about.

    Like


  204. on June 9, 2009 at 6:39 pm Cannon's Canon

    SA:
    “I trade treasuries different than corporate bonds.”

    How’s business?

    Like


  205. @ maurice

    Yeah, Wired is at the top of my list, but they haven’t offered me the position yet. PC is secure. We’ll see how it plays out.

    Yeah, I’m looking into freelancing/blogging, though if I work at a tech publication it’s supposedly better form to freelance in a different sector (if possible).

    Hence, Cosmo, which I do write for on occasion.

    Yeah, okay, I can see why you don’t have any faith in my nerdiness.

    Like


  206. @ Doug1

    Well, there’s generally a distinction between mainstream practice of a concept and the real thing. Liberalism, for me, is about individual social freedom and the recognition that the social contract allows us to make economic choices for our own gain on a large scale that we could not individually.

    Frankly, I’d be interested in paying for social programs and scientific research out of government funds because I don’t want to live in a shithole or worry about getting stabbed because I secured a mansion next to someone else’s shithole.

    Feminism would be a great idea if it had anything to do with real equality. Face it, hardly anyone is interested in equality. Feminism isn’t the quest for gender equality. It’s the quest for gender supremacy.

    How the majority of the population thinks they should have the right to vote without the RESPONSIBILITY to register with the selective service is beyond me. You can call the shots, but you don’t have to face the consequences of your decisions. Women volunteer, but men are required and that’s nowhere near the same thing. If we think they are, then rape and consensual sex are the same thing, right? Rights and responsibilities are two sides of the same coin.

    Talk to just about any feminist, and they giggle with glee that colleges are now dominated by women. It’s all fun and games to try to push others down on your way to the top, but how did you get there? Why wouldn’t others do that to you?

    It’s all bullshit, but it’s not the fault of liberalism. A woman shouldn’t have to stay with a man who punches her teeth out anymore than a man should have to pay alimony. Let’s unleash the true liberal idea of equality and see what feminists think of that.

    Like


  207. [email protected]“I’m reminded by firepower of ancient rome (again) about gay men. Pitchers were considered manly. Catchers were pussies/herbs. Rape by soldier was often a threat of punishment used against male criminals.”

    This was an old Afghani / Persian social attitude. The doer was seen as masculine and manly, basically a fucker. The doee, or rather the fuckee, was seen as effeminate

    I once read an account of an English diplomat who was more or less butt raped in his sleep while in 18th century Persia and used as a “human cannon’ for the amusement of the court. Basically whilst asleep ( I presume drugged) his anus was stuffed with peppercorns, he was bent over, and induced mechanically to dispel his stomach gasses in a most violent manner. He woke up with a sore bum. I read the account in an old travel log. I have no idea if the writer was exaggerating or not.

    PA should appreciate the significance of this…

    This is from memory, but I recall that Sir Richard Burton reports that Afghan Pathan fondness for Beardless boys (“Batchas” in farsi) actually instigated the first Anglo-Afghan war.

    The English more or less installed a puppet Emir in power in Kabul and set up a garrison. The Afghan wives were desperately horny frustrated and angry over their husbands sexually neglecting them in favor of young boys and so started, at first, discreet sexual liaisons with British soldiers.

    Discretion was soon lost and reports of long lines, queues, of women all dressed in Burqas lined up outside the British officer quarters exist. Alexander Burnes was reportedly a notorious cuckold of Afghani husbands.

    Basically once mass cuckoldry and infidelity on this scale became widely known, and discretion was flung to the winds (a sexually deprived woman can be quite flagrant) massive unrest grew among Kabul’s men, an angry mob killed Burnes.

    This created a serious diplomatic incident. The English installed pretender to the throne (Shuja Shah) was quickly deposed and Dost Mohammad, a fervent opponent of the British, was able to quickly mobilize tribal support and ride the wave of this incident, put the British garrison under siege, starve them out, and finally allow them to leave “in peace’ once the British were outside of Kabul you had a human train of thousands of officers, soldiers, sepoys, camp followers, wives, and children. The afghans then simply picked the entire British army off as they made their way back to Peshawar in the NWFP, one by one, in the winter, with few clothes and horses. Pathan tribes would occasionally give them food and water, and then return to picking them off.

    There was one survivor. One. This instigated a larger British invasion of Afghanistan

    Basically for the Pathans it was an honor thing. Invade them, they grumble. Put an indecisive weak and drunken sot on the throne as a puppet, they grumble and a few rebel. Let your soldiers fuck their wives en masse while they watch helplessly then their honor gets inflamed and they lynch you. Clever opportunists waiting in the wings take advantage of this, and whip up public ill will into a firewall and well, the rest is a military disaster…

    Yes, they were fucking boys in the asses, yes public morals had degenerated to the degree that this was socially acceptable even while being widely condemned by moralists and religious reformers (one particularly unpopular Mullah in Bukhara was almost stoned by a mob because he ran around lecturing that the Russian invasions and subjugations of their kingdom was God’s punishment for the widespread prevalence of Buggery in their society… evidently his was an unpopular view), yes all of this was the fault of Pathan men, but in their culture, they are allowed their sexual indulgences but touch their women and it’s an affront to their honor…

    Mishima as a man who clung to an old Samurai ethos falls under this category. Buggery as a vice is often frequently found in hyper alpha warrior cultures (think federal prisons) conjoined with a general diminution of females. it makes sense contrary to modern West political correctness. After all, if a certain amount of misandry is inherent in a good deal of lesbianism, it only makes sense that homosexual buggery can be the ultimate expression of a female hating misogyny.

    Examples of Alpha Warrior caste homosexuality conjoined with misogyny:
    -the Greeks and later Hellenic civilization.
    -the Pashtun Afghans (even to this day the homosexual proclivities of Pathans are frequently commented on across south and central Asia)
    -the Mongols (who also fucked their horses sometimes. Kid you not)
    -Pre modern Persia and Khorasan (e.g. Afghanistan and the Central Asian .stan republic areas)

    -A bit of this existed in the pre-Islamic “jahili” Arab warrior society as well.

    Like


  208. @ maurice

    “no alphas, though – bf is wrong. and i still don’t believe the hex line – no way. ”

    Haha, first of all, that comment was delivered with dripping sarcasm. Not that he would worry about Alphas anyway, but I think he was just trying to highlight what a huge geek I am.

    As for the hex. Heck yeah! What don’t you believe? That I know hex? That he knows hex? That he delivered a hex-laden line in order to woo me (okay, so it was probably just to PWN me, just like my response was meant to PWN him). Do tell.

    Re: Conde Nast separating their website vs. the magazine, I feel you — Hearst does this too. I think the giants are reluctant to admit that the paper-printed word is dying.

    Like


  209. @lilgrl – cosmo? QED. not a real nerd. venn diagram intersection of helen gurley brown and chris anderson = 0. good luck with wired though – it would be awesome.

    are you the one that writes those “how to drive your man wild in bed” pieces …? hmm… 🙂

    @wonka- not much of that seems conventionally liberal, other than maybe mild income redistribution in the first bit. explain why you identify so strongly as a leftie, then …?

    Like


  210. Maurice,

    I think you’d find the magnitude of my willingness to invest government money in the public good would put me closer to socialist than conventional American leftie.

    Like


  211. on June 9, 2009 at 6:52 pm katherine willey

    wonka, don’t worry, even the feminists don’t take their stuff seriously.

    Like


  212. @ maurice

    I’m a nerdy girl who likes sex’n’sports…Cosmo + Wired = FTW. SRSLY. If we could put like, Sports Illustrated or ESPN (THE MAGAZINE) in there, ‘twould be orgasmic.

    Like


  213. LILGRL–

    Haha, first of all, that comment was delivered with dripping sarcasm.

    Don’t worry. Everyone but Maurice got it. (Rather unlike maurice. You must have him nervous for some reason…)

    Well not everyone. At all. You can think of some that wouldn’t have.

    Wired definitely. But you don’t need telling that. Just a lot more fun on top of other things.

    What I could really see you doing is getting into video casting and such, like Veronica Belmont or Molly Wood. Nerd hotty girl niche. (Well Molly’s not really much of a hottie.) Bay area is the place for that.

    What about CNET? They do a bunch of video casting.

    Like


  214. the gym comments are retarded and unrelated on leg days I do all the machines including the adductor between presses.

    and before you go calling me a herb or a beta just double check to make sure I haven’t fucked your girlfriend recently.

    there you go.

    Like


  215. @ Doug1

    Ah, see, I think I’d be good at video-casting too. PC has already mentioned this would be a definite option — as a smaller mag looking to redo its image, I’d have a little more leeway. I am enthralled by Wired, but I’m sure I’d have less pull.

    CNET isn’t hiring at the moment, as far as I’m aware.

    Like


  216. @Kamal – interesting. i usually think of rampant male homosexuality as a symptom of societies in decay or crisis (weimar germany, fall of rome, present day, etc.) but you make a case that the upper classes of ancient greece might not have been an outlier, and that homoeroticism can be an offshoot from hyper-masculine cultures.

    @lilgrl – i figured about the sarcasm, but what i don’t believe about the hex line is that it worked as pickup line in any way. because it’s intrinsically unsexy. especially for a COSMO WRITER, fergodssakes. unless you’re a fembot a la Austin Powers … 😉

    Like


  217. Kamal, does the British cuckolding of the Afghan husbands account for that green-eyed girl from the 1984 National Geographic cover?

    Also, I’ve also read elsewhere about the Pashtun buggery of boys. Some (Sailer?) wrote that this brought the Talibs to power, with their promises of piety and sexual order.

    Now, don’t those buggered boys have families that would be angered by someone cumdumping into them? With the tight-knit tribes and all. Just asking, since it sounds like you know a lot about this Aghan thing.

    Like


  218. Obsidian is spot on, as usual. A lot of modern “hunting” is pretty lame. Offing a harmless ungulate like a deer from inside a blind with a scope sighted rifle is not going to put anyone in touch with their true hunter instincts. But stalking a large animal into its own turf at close quarters , when it might, under certain circumstances, see you as a vulnerable target .. that is something different. Primal stuff gets kick-started in the hind brain. All to the good, imho.
    Back in the old days it was considered a very big deal for men to confront apex predators like Lion & Wolves and kill them in an open fight. Modern folks are programmed to see that as crazed machismo run wild; an un-necessary effusion of excess testosterone.
    But why do you think Mountain Lions have started killing and eating Californians? There are parts of rural Africa nowadays where Lions stalk and eat villagers without shame. Apex predators see humans as easy meat UNLESS they are taught to fear them on a regular basis. And the best way to do that is to provoke a charge and then kill the thing right in front of the pride.
    It is all just politics. But as modern people we have forgotten more than we have learned.

    Like


  219. @ Wonka, you can be like Jenny’s hippie (and presumably socialist) boyfriend from Forrest Gump, acting alpha (or, apparently, like Obsidian) while bitching about Nixon and spending other people’s money on the “public good.” Or you can go move to formerly socialist countries and sell your crazy to them, I am sure chicks recovering from your ideal totalitarian societies would love to bang a true believer. In other words, get over it, boo hoo that R’s politics shake your foundations, rest assured, being trampled on by a chick is a bipartisan experience.

    Like


  220. MU- chris brown grew up seeing his mom get beat by his step father and it rubed off on him.

    tunacanman and before you go calling me a herb or a beta just double check to make sure I haven’t fucked your girlfriend recently.

    *DEAD FAINT*

    Like


  221. 🙂
    ok, maybe a bit aggressive.

    Like


  222. @doug, lilgrl – nervous? nahh … a little jealous, if anything. I *wish* i was 22 and starting my adult life as a tech journalist in the bay area … not that my life is bad, but it is sometimes interesting to wonder what would have happened had we taken other roads in life …

    videocasting idea very cool. could lilgrl be the next amanda congdon? (who flopped when she left the web, btw.) looks? check. tech chops? check. gets guy-guys? check. saucy/aggressive persona? check. as long as you don’t have an annoying voice, you’d be a shoe-in.

    @wonka – a great sentiment, to be sure, but … where does that government money come from? and what is the “public good ” and who defines it? drilling down on those issues gets you into hard choices very quickly.

    Like


  223. Why is the hip machine beta? I used to use that machine all the time when I played soccer.

    As far as weights go, the reason many guys don’t use them is because they believe all the B.S. about weight lifting routines and how hard they have to be. I work out for 10 minutes each day with free weights and pushups. That gives me all the strength, tone, flexibility and muscle mass anybody needs who is not into some insane body contact sport.

    Seeing all these skinny boys walking around just amazes me. They just don’t get it.

    I am done with my workup before most guys even get 1/2 way to the gym.

    Jogging? Now, I would call that beta. A time waster.

    This sort of fitness program allows more time for a successful life.

    Oh yeah, watch what you eat.

    Like


  224. Get a young 22 year old hipster chick fresh to NYC (from the Midwest) get her drunk- and introduce her to some ambivalently sexually men- and the panties come right the fuck off.

    this is interesting, and i’ve been thinking a lot about it lately. guys like this are essentially demonstrating alpha behavior, but not masculine behavior. they are queen bees.

    a guy like this is doing what any guy who wants to get laid a lot has to do: trigger insecurities and make women wonder if she is good enough to get him. he is thinner, more fashionable, and more socially adept than she. considering that most hipster broads live life like overgrown adolescents, of course this sort of thing works.

    Like


  225. Regarding the satchel question, for those who are arguing pro-satchel (compulsive readers, writers, laptop-needers, etc)…

    I feel you on wanting to have your reading/writing gear with you. Get yourself a black leather briefcase with a strap. I have one with a strap that tucks into a side pocket. It’s appropriate for the most formal business meetings. A nice one… $200 on-sale, online. You can use it every day.

    When at all possible, I drop it off at home or office before hitting up a bar or club. I’d much rather not have it with me when meeting up with a girl, of course. But I live in a huge city and sometimes I go straight from a meeting to a venue to meet a girl or friend. If you have to carry books or a laptop with you, just carry it like a briefcase the way all men used to do all the time.

    95% of the time I carry it like a briefcase. The strap is there if you are stopping at the store on the way home, then you can sling it over your shoulder for the walk home. Otherwise, pretend the strap isn’t there; carry it like a man. Practical, classic, sharp, and you don’t look like a fucking chihuahua enthusiast.

    Like


  226. scratch amanda congdon. the next olivia munn from AOTS. How’s that …? more LA than SF, but still suitably geeky and fun.

    Like


  227. Huning in our society is so silly and easy it is not very alpha.

    I stopped killing for fun when I decided, when very young, animals have lives like me, and although their lives may be relatively short and narrow compared to me, I had no right to deprive them of their life just for my enjoyment.

    I think that may be beta, but, to paraphrase that man:

    If this be beta, then make the most of it!

    Like


  228. on June 9, 2009 at 7:19 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    maurice:

    @lilgrl – i figured about the sarcasm, but what i don’t believe about the hex line is that it worked as pickup line in any way.

    Read in context. This wasn’t an opener (the usual meaning of “pickup line”), but, rather, one brick in a wall of banter.

    Most likely, either (a) he had already calibrated her nerdy side*, or (b) this was a sort of neg, of the “heh, silly asian girl, you would understand that, wouldn’t you” sort.

    Or (c) it didn’t really matter what he said, because he already had one big neanderthal hand pulling on her hair and the other one grabbing that big, decidedly un-mongol ass.

    If it were an opener, then, yes, it wouldn’t work.

    **Haven’t you ever interacted with nerdy, or even semi-nerdy, girls?
    They appreciate the occasional bit of jargon. Really, they do.

    Like


  229. The messenger bag is beta argument is ridiculous. The old school leather messenger bags are very stylish, and were worn by a lot of old school Hollywood actors (and in the movies with alpha characters e.g. Indiana Jones).

    Oh, and once again some of the commentators don’t know their evolutionary history.

    Rum, go read ‘Man the Hunted: Primates, Predators, and Human Evolution’ by Sussman or ‘Hunter and Hunted: Relationships Between Carnivores and People’ by Kruuk. For the vast majority of our hominid evolutionary history we were prey, and a scavenger species. It is only very recently that we become hunters, and was not very long on an evolutionary timeline when compared to the ‘man as prey’ period.

    The reason people are scared of apex predators is because of the evolved fear we have of them when they hunted us in the dead of the night. The archaelogical record, and primate behavioral field studies, would also indicate that we evolved anti-predator strategies through teamwork and weaponary. Not through lone he-man suicide missions.

    Some of you guys have an incredibly fucking ill-informed view of evolution. It’s like watching a pack of fucking snarky leftists that have half-read Chomsky and talking about how evil America is.

    Like


  230. Firepower like hockey. real and tough. hardly any pansy prima dona players either.

    gonna go watch it now with my big fat long stinky cigar.

    when lilgirl is done with all of you, hose her off, then have her email me those karaoke tips

    Like


  231. @askjoe LOL Good point.

    @maurice

    Yes, tough decisions and I don’t deny that. I will say that my worldview doesn’t generally correspond to the “let’s have everything without making any hard choices and sacrifices” liberalism you see around today. There was a time when leaders on both sides were required to be disciplined, intelligent and actually rub a couple of brain cells together in exchange for their pay.

    In any event, my only point is that roissy’s presentation of his ideas clearly maintains that these ideas are for conservatives, making me think we see something differntly along the way since I have always considered these to be part of a true, hardcore liberalism.

    Like


  232. maurice–

    because it’s [birthday in hex] intrinsically unsexy.

    No it’ isn’t. Really.

    Not once there’s already sexual tension based on looks, carriage, confidence, place in life perhaps, etc. In fact it could definitely be a turn on. It’s like being a strong enough man to wear a pink tie. It’s we can be nerds together and not be self conscious about it because we’re obviously both hot. It’s we speak the same language in this area too.

    LILGRL will now confirm everything I just said.

    Like


  233. Reality

    Humans as prey??? Speak for yourself…
    Are you hungry? Would you like a piece of Feral Hog meat? I always cook the shit out of it because they are filled with worms when you take them.

    Like


  234. @joe – that dude seems like more of a beta than she is a tramp. i mean, murdering a chick who wants to leave you? abundance, not scarcity. they had two kids which complicates things though.

    My bad, I misread the headline and thought the wife set her husband on fire so that she could be with her boss. Disregard.

    Like


  235. @doug, epoxy87 – OK, you win! i was just doing a little friendly negging, but it *would* have to be in the right context, with all those other things going right, for it not to be a geeky show-stopper.

    Like


  236. doug1 She’s got a pic of her bf near the top post now. Couple down or so. Good and alpha looking guy

    Yes Doug, a very very handsome man. He knocked me for six.

    Arpagus-no sweat off my back. Have your fun youngman. Just don’t make any children you don’t want and be careful of disease.

    Like


  237. on June 9, 2009 at 7:39 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Obsidian is spot on, as usual. A lot of modern “hunting” is pretty lame. Offing a harmless ungulate like a deer from inside a blind with a scope sighted rifle is not going to put anyone in touch with their true hunter instincts. But stalking a large animal into its own turf at close quarters , when it might, under certain circumstances, see you as a vulnerable target .. that is something different. Primal stuff gets kick-started in the hind brain. All to the good, imho.

    Back in the old days it was considered a very big deal for men to confront apex predators like Lion & Wolves and kill them in an open fight. Modern folks are programmed to see that as crazed machismo run wild; an un-necessary effusion of excess testosterone.

    Heh….gotta disagree here, for two reasons:

    1) The act of harvesting your own meat is a primal survival skill….regardless of the superiority of the technology you employ – if you kill and EAT your kill, you are getting in touch with your primal nature as a mammalian omnivore.

    2) Do some research into the nutritional differences between natural, wild animals and their diets and how their meat is far more nutritious than the standard, sterilized, factory farmed and feed lot fattened meat products that make up 95% of the meat in the Western World’s grocery stores.

    There is NO comparison between the two.

    So whether you’re in a tree stand with the best scoped rifle money can buy and shooting a “poor ungulate” that doesn’t have a chance…or you hunt as I do here in Hawaii (I hunt wild boar with dogs and a knife…and have been for over 15 years now…it doesn’t get anymore primal than that,) you are simply finding a nutritionally superior source of protein and fat that will nourish and strengthen your body far better than the standard fare of factory farmed and preservative laden meats of the modern day grocery store. That is as good as it gets.

    Don’t diss on hunters simply because “there’s no sport in using high-powered technology to kill a defenseless animal.”

    Because this is simply a myopic and ignorant view to take.

    A hunter with all that superior technology STILL has to put a lot of time and effort into stalking, tracking, and patiently waiting. Than after the kill is made, any ethical hunter that hunts to eat his or her kills, has to track the animal if it didn’t die right away, field dress it, than either de-bone it or carry the carcass back through the woods/forest/mountain to get their kill home to eat.

    That is a LOT of work, physical exertion and hard labor. Yeah, having the best gun money can buy and sitting in a blind may seem “a joke” to those of you that haven’t considered all of the other aspects of hunting I just mentioned, consider that the ethical hunter that hunts for FOOD is not worthy of your scorn or denigration.

    BUT, if we’re talking about a “trophy hunter?” The chump that kills an animal simply to hand the head on the wall and use it as some sort of status symbol? By all means, than all of your guys approbation and criticism’s certainly apply!

    Like


  238. Dave –

    Where do you hunt pig? I spoke with someone in Lanai once about hunting they have there…but I’m assuming you mean mostly in the forests around the valley areas?

    Like


  239. @DFH – really? huting boars with dogs and knives? and your wife thought you were a beta? does not compute. (also – there are wild boars in hawaii?)

    i went boar hunting once in eastern europe. a bunch of guys walked through a frozen swamp and drove the boars out of the other side of the reeds poking through. then we all shot at the boars as they ran away. didn’t see the point. and fishing for me is like watching paint dry. to each his own, i guess. i believe the meat is fresher and tastier, but on the other hand you don’t know where they might have been getting their food.. landfill, waste dump, etc.

    Like


  240. DA: glad to see you back in (in)action. Are you serious tryin’ to peddle “Herb Game”? I think they already beat you to the punch on that one, Dave; they call such dudes SUCKERS.

    “Herb Game” isn’t any worse than regular game. If you’re using it to get laid, you’re an idiot, but if you’ve secured yourself a number of platonic female friends to keep you occupied and prop up your ego, you’ll be very comfortable…

    And as for the Onion article, I wouldn’t want my friendship to be ruined by sex. Once you have sex, you can’t have ice cream after work…

    Like


  241. @ Kamal

    so we have come to another war caused by sex. it may be a bias of roissy’s blog, but it seems that we’ve got a pattern here

    Like


  242. on June 9, 2009 at 7:49 pm Dave from Hawaii

    The rainforests of the mountains and valleys here. I’ve hunted deer in Lana’i, as well as mouflon sheep on the Big Island…but I mainly hunt pig here on O’ahu.

    And yes, there is a very primal thrill that runs through your body when you hear the dogs corner a large wild boar in the rainforest, and you have to run to it as fast as possible so you can kill ’em with your knife before the boar escapes or kills one of your hunting dogs.

    No drug compares (and I’ve done my fair share, let me tell you) to the adrenaline dump you’ll experience when you first kill a large feral boar with a knife to the heart.

    Like


  243. Rum–

    Apex predators see humans as easy meat UNLESS they are taught to fear them on a regular basis. And the best way to do that is to provoke a charge and then kill the thing right in front of the pride.

    By far the most important thing in any life or death battle with a man killing predator, whether beast or man, is sang froid at the moment of truth.

    This was apparently true in the American old west as well. The real issue wasn’t how fast you could draw your gun 95% of the time. It was whether you could hit anything when someone else was aiming at you, and speed did matter some.

    Like


  244. on June 9, 2009 at 7:53 pm Seeking Alpha

    Cannon

    How’s business?

    Amazing. I don’t say that out of pride. I’m only 23. I’m not making buy or sell decisions yet (except tactically, i.e. I can wait if I think I might get a better price later in the day, etc.), so our performance has nothing to do with me.

    @ Gym people

    Did squats for the first time in a couple years today. Went really light: 100 pounds. My knee held up fine (although we’ll see how it feels in the morning) but my hamstrings feel like jelly now. Great feeling.

    Also set a new record for myself for bench press. Put up 230 for 4 and then 240 for 1. I’m sure most of you guys do better, but for a 23 year old former computer nerd who weighs 170, I’m pretty proud. My goal is to put up 275.

    Like


  245. on June 9, 2009 at 7:58 pm Dave from Hawaii

    @DFH – really? huting boars with dogs and knives? and your wife thought you were a beta? does not compute. (also – there are wild boars in hawaii?)

    No, my wife didn’t think I was a beta…I WAS acting like one.

    But I was NEVER a ‘herb.’ heh.

    I’ve never been a beta chump with regards to other men. I’ve been a martial artist for half my life, and in fact, I teach martial arts to a class of men, women and children as well.

    I spent years as a nightclub bouncer and have had to handle more than few violent guys. I’ve been in my share of fights and I’m no chump when it comes to bullies or thugs.

    I simply followed the pattern of married behavior of my parents once I was comfortably married to my wife…I let her rule the roost and I was letting her emotional state dictate the state of our relationship.

    That was certainly Beta.

    As for hunting…that’s my weekend sport. And I eat everything I kill…or if it’s a very small pig that the dogs catch, they get to eat the fruits of their labors as well.

    Yeah, we got plenty of wild pigs in the mountains here in Hawaii. They make for great sausages.

    Like


  246. so, no Don Ho or “forgetting sarah marshall” crap for you. i guess i never thought of hawaii as a badass state. my dad used to live there, in Hilo, and i visited many times and have been on all the islands (except niihau, of course). never suspected it was a good hunting place. live and learn. i guess by taking the feral pigs off the market you are doing the vegetation a favor as well…

    Like


  247. off topic:

    *thinks to self*
    no default and no aoefe. What the hell???

    *sound of firecrackers*

    It’s on now. I’m not gonna let this one get away.

    Like


  248. @chic – guess they got that e-room i told them to get!

    *dead faint*

    Like


  249. seeking alpha

    business is booming indeed. the financial markets are hiring again, foreign capital last month just established the record inflow in history and GDP came well above expectations

    it is hard to believe it is so good, when just 8 months ago IBM Brazil had to implore money to its matrix for cash flow, because credit had completely dried up

    only Karl denninger can screw things now

    Like


  250. Dave –

    What kind of dogs do you have?

    Like


  251. [email protected]
    “Kamal, does the British cuckolding of the Afghan husbands account for that green-eyed girl from the 1984 National Geographic cover?”

    It’s possible, but I honestly don’t think so. Green eyes and light hair pops up throughout central Asia. Take the Hazaras, often they have Mongol facial features, but sandy blondish hair and light skin. They do not intermarry with Pathans, and indeed are scorned. Hazars lived far from areas of British penetration. Grey eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes are common with the Hazaras and they report descent from Mongol stock. I believe at some time in the distant past they intermarried with Caucasian peoples native to Central Asia (like the ancestors of the Tajiks or further back, other Medo-Persian peoples) giving their people a distinct appearance, not quite Mongol, not quite European.

    Also look at the Kashmiris – white skin, and usually black hair but sometimes sandy blond. Kashmiri facial phenotypes are very European. And this was the case long before the British arrived. Some believe that Greek blood attests for this (due to the passage of Alexander the Great) but I am skeptical. Nuristanis (formerly known as kafirstanis) also have these traits. Green eyes pop up throughout Nuristan and Kashmir. So I surmise that these traits are just native to the populations there.

    English cuckolding introduced British genetic material, but much of this only occurred in one City – Kabul. So even if you had a few hundred bastards sired from this, jump 180 years in the future, this isn’t enough to account for the sheer number of light hair, green eyed, people you find in Afghanistan.

    Also the etymology of Iran is the same as Aryan, Central Asia is more or less the area from which Indo European peoples migrated, in successive waves. Whether it is the ultimate home in which they evolved or not belongs in pre-history, but the world’s oldest recorded Indo-European languages hail from that region, the Scythians were a nomadic blond white people who terrorized the steppes and they emerged from Northern Central Asia. Copious grave sites with frozen/mummified remains of red hair and blond hair peoples dating to pre-historic times have been found there.

    “Also, I’ve also read elsewhere about the Pashtun buggery of boys. Some (Sailer?) wrote that this brought the Talibs to power, with their promises of piety and sexual order.”

    Sailer’s (if he wrote this) is on the mark. The incident that brought the Taliban to power was basically a feud between two warlords over the right to bugger a particularly attractive teenage boy (who doubtlessly was cowering in fear at home), one warlord saw him and fell in love with him, another contested it, their supporters turned out with arms and soon it became a melee. The village was reduced to rubble, the family sent word to the Taliban begging then to save them their son and their village, so the Taliban rode in like white knights, and restored order, lynching the two feuding warlords.

    Another incident is that a parade of gay men decided to throw a wedding, the more conservative villagers were highly offended but found themselves powerless to stop it, so they called in the Taliban who enforced public morality at a gun barrel.

    These stories are too pat, of course, to fully explain things. That the incidents happened – I have no doubt – in fact a couple of incidents of that nature happened, but a good deal of the rise of the Taliban seems far too pat – like an artificial phenomenon. Pakistan’s former head of military Intelligence, general Gul, also alluded in past interviews to Pakistani military intelligence support of the Talibs with CIA foreknowledge…

    Which makes sense, Gul was in the CIA’s good graces at the time and reportedly there was still cooperation between the ISI and the USA. Some variant reports suggest that it was actually Pakistan’s Frontier Constabulary that initiated support for the Taliban, under the ISI’s and Benazir Bhutto’s administration’s noses. The CIA, these reports go, still supported Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, as did the ISI, the Frontier Constabulary just went a bit maverick, threw in some support to the rising Taliban, gave them coordinates for one of Hekmatyar’s Arms depots, they seized it, battled Hekmatyar, and now freshly armed started to assert themselves. The ISI eventually came around, the reports allege, Washington at the time had few objections though as the Taliban’s career advanced Washington grew increasingly uneasy with them, and eventually dropped them like a hot potato.

    In truth non of us will probably ever know what exactly happened in our lifetimes…

    “Now, don’t those buggered boys have families that would be angered by someone cumdumping into them? With the tight-knit tribes and all. Just asking, since it sounds like you know a lot about this Aghan thing.”

    Hell, I would think I’d be pissed… But I’m not Afghani. Pathans have a notorious stereotype as Buggers and rapists. Is it a deserved stereotype? Not necessarily, but in all such things there is a grain of truth. There is an old Central Asian “tradition” of Alpha male buggery there, consensual in the past, but sometimes today basically just rape. Afghanistan has been wrecked by 30 years of war, so previous social institutions that kept this sort of activity reasonably discreet don’t really exist.

    Older boys/men “batchas” in the past could find themselves socially well served by sort of close erotic “friendships” with more powerful men, due to increased social capital and patronage networks. “Batchas” (the word basically means “boy”) were often very artsy. Older boys or young men who could sing well, dance well, recite and composed poetry, and do, well, effete artistic gay stuff. In the old social order this had an orderly place, with social breakdown I surmise it just got out of control.

    Some artistically talented young men may very well find choosing to spend lots of time around strong men, as entertainers and drinking party companions, with nudge nudge, wink wink, buggery also going on, to be an acceptable option. In the old order “batchas” were often retained by teahouse owners, popular pretty ones kept the guests coming in. They were well paid in the old order, and retired well. But basically they were dancing boys. Tribal chiefs / warlords regarded keeping them as status symbols.

    Fuckin’ degenerate, I know, but to continue…

    If a family is strong, well armed, highly religious, etc., they may resist the…. recruitment… of their boys by show of arms. Sometimes however a father might just beat his son senseless, but the boy can just leave.. or a client can just pay the family. If your son’s the “best friend” of the village strongman, they what are you going to do, besides the previous social institution of the poetry spouting, dancing, polite and refined, pretty boy batcha, is so engrained into some quarters of urban (Urban mind you) Afghan culture that the more degenerate modern survivals are hard to weed out take the Taliban, they aggressively tried to ruthlessly stamp out homosexuality in Afghanistan, taking to public execution and making sodomites do swan dives off from cliffs. Did the institution die off? No.

    The relationship between a batcha and the older man enjoying his company could generate very strong emotional bonds between them, indeed men would often literally fall in love with his batcha. Once the batcha grew older and of marriageable age their bond of intimate friendship would persist, indeed sometimes the older man simply gave the boy his own daughter as a bride.

    As for modern rape, of boys or girls, from what I’ve heard is sometimes settled by violence, if the offended family has the wealth and power to project force. In many cases however they are just too poor, lacking in social capital, lacking in arms and armed supporters, to really resist the predations of well armed, well connected, war lords.

    I do not mean to suggest that this stuff is absolutely set in stone or as widespread as the media may suggest. But it does exist, if you run into any Punjabi guys try to see if you can coax out of them pederast jokes about Pathan. Pathan buggery is the butt of jokes throughout South Asia (no pun intended).

    Interesting link:
    http://www.glapn.org/sodomylaws/world/afghanistan/afnews009.htm
    telling quote: “Daud is unmarried and has sex only with men and boys. But he does not consider himself homosexual, at least not in the Western sense. “I like boys, but I like girls better,” he says. “It’s just that we can’t see the women to see if they are beautiful. But we can see the boys, and so we can tell which of them is beautiful.”

    That article comes from a liberal progressive bias that “just doesn’t get it” and is utterly unfamiliar with the history of the region, but does point to some interesting things..

    That said, I must learn the art of brevity…

    Like


  252. Joe
    How does doing standing curls in a squat rack hit different muscles than doing standing curls outside a squat rack???

    1) Because I want to use the Squat rack for doing Squats and Deadlifts to start my workout with a mindblowing T – Pump before moving onto upper body

    2) You dont really need to do standing curls that much – do enough bench, chest, back workouts and your bicepts will get big automaticall

    Like


  253. Here is a picture of a Hazara immigrant, I dug up.

    Hazara

    The claim of Russian influence with the Hazaras is not tenable, the Hazaras have had these sort of features for generations. Doubtlessly over the last 30 – 40 years some Russians probably did fuck some Hazara girls, either by rape or the typical submission of conquered peoples to invaders, but it hardly explains really old men and women with these features. And again the British didn’t really penitrate this far into Afghanistan (I think, I really could be wrong here and frankly welcome correction ..0

    Like


  254. [email protected]
    “*thinks to self*
    no default and no aoefe. What the hell???”

    It’s a slow and sunny day.
    Perhaps they are out courting…

    Like


  255. 1) Because I want to use the Squat rack for doing Squats and Deadlifts to start my workout with a mindblowing T – Pump before moving onto upper body

    2) You dont really need to do standing curls that much – do enough bench, chest, back workouts and your bicepts will get big automaticall

    These have nothing to do with my question. Did you mean to direct this to Seeking Alpha? I’m opposed to doing standing curls anywhere, inside or outside of a squat rack. But especially inside a squat rack.

    Like


  256. LILGRL, maurice, doug1

    Doug is right. It is very simple.

    If she is already attracted then he can get away with any line.

    If she is not attracted he can get away with nothing.
    [this applies in all cases not just LILGRL]

    Obviously she was already attracted.

    What concerns me though is not, knowing what hex is but been able to convert it in you head. I mean that is what Calculator is for.

    Like


  257. on June 9, 2009 at 8:23 pm Dave from Hawaii

    What kind of dogs do you have?

    Mixed breed hounds…pitbull/german shorthair pointer/rhodesian ridgeback/whippets.

    Like


  258. Kamal S.

    “*thinks to self*
    no default and no aoefe. What the hell???”

    I heard that!

    Like


  259. I have been told via first hand information that the basic currency, indeed the primary form of pay-off-bribery in Aphganistan is – brace yourself- Viagra tabs.
    This is what the CIA has used to entice a lot of limpoid warlords into compliance.
    Don’t blame me for telling.

    Like


  260. chic noir, Kamel S.

    *thinks to self*
    no default and no aoefe. What the hell???

    So it was you spreading rumours?

    Kamal S. I now realize that you were quoting chic’s orginal post.

    Like


  261. Dave –

    That’s pretty crazy, how large do the boars get?

    I actually encountered a boar’s den once (they were not there at the time)… pretty weird seeing evidence of live animal, or even seeing live animal.

    A lot of people don’t realize how rare it is to see a wild animal in a wild habitat.

    Like


  262. on June 9, 2009 at 8:31 pm Cannon's Canon

    SA:
    “Did squats for the first time in a couple years today. Went really light: 100 pounds. My knee held up fine (although we’ll see how it feels in the morning) but my hamstrings feel like jelly now. Great feeling.”

    That’s all anyone was really saying to you – good work. Believe it or not, you’re already in the top 20% of guys who go to the gym.

    gig:
    I’m drinking the Denninger koolaid big time. PPIP is crap and this all will eventually bite t-bills in the ass. Hyperinflation, the beta revolution, and all that. The little bird-in-hand is FHA mortgage paper, where we will definitely be seeing the mints cranking out money to cover those defaults. Commercial paper will also continue to die slow until unemployment starts dropping.

    Like


  263. [email protected]
    “Kamal, does the British cuckolding of the Afghan husbands account for that green-eyed girl from the 1984 National Geographic cover?”

    PA, that photo is iconic. Someone found that girl a few years ago and she has aged horribly. The afghan climate is harsh. The editor of National Geographic at the time, said that a few men had wrote to the magazine with marriage proposals. IIRC Her cover received more letters than any other.
    _________

    So default, you finally decide to show up huh? Where have you been?

    Like


  264. On killing goats: Who knows if I would have passed the test and kept hitting the goat when I was a kid, but something tells me I might. When I was about 8 I walked past some farmers slaughtering sheep by hitting them with a hammer before slashing their throats. They asked me to go away but I said “this is a public road” and kept standing there watching. That is as close as I have come to the killing business and it doesn’t particularly interest me, but after reading Neil Strauss’s latest book I appreciate the value of learning survival skills including hunting.

    On topic: Today’s post was somewhat heartening. I may be beta but I now know that at least I am no herb. None of that fits except the lack of success with women, not due to herbal traits. I certainly eat meat, totally disrespect feminism, and even have zero female friends because I have made it clear to all women who tried to LJBF me that there can be no such thing without sex. At the very least they would have to follow the sequence outlined in Chekhov’s Uncle Vanja: “A woman can become a man’s friend only in this sequence: first an acquaintance, then a mistress, and then a friend.” If that is not enough, herbs should read David Buss to disabuse themselves of the notion that men and women can truly be just friends from the man’s perspective, as opposed to just using the women as pivots.

    Like


  265. chic noir

    So default, you finally decide to show up huh? Where have you been?

    I checked in earlier but had nothing to add.

    I just caught Kamal’s reference to your where-are-they-now? comment, and felt I should say hello.

    I am sure aoefe will be along any minute. 😉

    Like


  266. The blockquote strikes again!

    Like


  267. “who else has had a kill?”

    I killed a gerbil in a pet store. The sign said don’t touch, I didn’t read it. I picked it up, it was a tiny baby, it leaped (ok squiggled) out of my hands to the floor and died in convulsions. It was horrible. I hope never to kill again.

    @maurice

    “you’re such a girl”

    Thanks! 🙂

    Oh and Herb’s not so much my style, nope. Hope you weren’t thinking they were. I kind of liked Lilgirl’s story of her boyfriend’s Neanderthal move (hair pull). That’s hotter than a satchel, vegetarians and white knighting any day.

    Like


  268. Kamal – thanks for the long proze. Fascinating as usual.
    Rum – I read about CIA’s Viagara bribes too.

    Like


  269. on June 9, 2009 at 8:46 pm Dave from Hawaii

    That’s pretty crazy, how large do the boars get?

    On this island, a 150 lbs. boar (Field dress weight…about 210 live) is considered a big pig.

    On the Big Island, they start to consider them big at around 225.

    But the size is not really as concerning as the length of the tusks…the longer and sharper they are, the more chance your dogs could get gutted before you reach ’em.

    Like


  270. @MU- I agree with a lot of what you said but let me clarify. I’m not into men who are violent for the fun of it. I need a man who can protect me if needed, nothing more. I don’t care for gratuitous forms of violence like extreme fighting. Boxing isn’t so bad since it’s structured.

    Women like Police officers, firemen, and like because they are very masculine. They are often well built and fearless. Something I also noticed long ago, of the men who work those types of jobs, a similar type of facial shape seems common. It’s the very masculine large jaw(highT) look of NFL players like Ray Lewis, Mark Sanchez, and Will Demps. Funny enough, Sanchez and Reggie Bush are equally masculine and pretty boyish.

    When I see academics on TV, more often that not, they have more feminine looking features regardless of race. Male academics tend to have softer looking faces like DA.

    The faces of male politicians tend to be a mixed bag. Newt Gingrich has a feminine babyish looking face as did Limbaugh before his addiction.

    Those two types of men tend to inspire different types of feelings in women of at lust in me. They are also the type who come to mind when I think “Player”. The more masculine inspire feelings of lust but not much else. The softer faced men tend to inspire feelings of love and cuddling.

    Like


  271. @default – brushing her e-hair?

    Like


  272. arpagus On topic: Today’s post was somewhat heartening. I may be beta but I now know that at least I am no herb.
    Not with that ex drive you have. I would say your just a man who has problems meeting women.

    _________________________

    😯

    and you wonder why I’m suspicious huh. why does aoefe come stumbling in behind you?

    * looks at default zipper*

    default, your fly is down.

    *looks at aoefe*

    *notices wrinkled clothes and uncombed hair*

    Oh GOD
    *runs off*

    Like


  273. @default
    “I am sure aoefe will be along any minute”

    Too funny! I was busy typing away my reply and reading and didn’t refresh, had nooo ideas of the comments re our e-room (ooops did I say that out loud?).

    Like


  274. yeah, yeah. hastily putting on your e-clothes after a furtive e-quickie. then pretending that nooothing ever happened…

    😉

    Like


  275. @maurice

    Are you saying I’m having an e-cigarette right now? Cuz I’m telling you right now I don’t smoke!

    Like


  276. try it next to me; i will crush your ego

    LOL! talk about incorporating the avatar!
    I already feel humiliated!

    Like


  277. @chic – lol. how did you manage to post that question about D&A just before they signed on? were you e-stalking them? e-peeping in their e-room? 🙂

    Like


  278. maurice, aoefe, chic noir

    *default unispired*
    *default falls back into silence*

    Like


  279. well, it’s only an e-cigarette, so no harm done…

    Like


  280. @default

    Ok, change of subject, bring you out of your silence. Did you ever kill anything?

    Like


  281. chic noir

    *default sees latest chic post*
    *default breaks silence*
    *default remembers about “the print”*
    *default sad that no *dead faint* *

    Like


  282. @maurice

    Phew…I can be a pack a day e-smoker and not lose colour in my skin, wrinkle faster, or stink. Cool.

    Like


  283. aoefe

    I was born and raised in a city. Only the occasional foray to rural parts. So no animal kills. Pity, I agree with others that say it is good for a boy/young man to experience that.

    I was in a fight age about 13. I had the other guys neck in my grip. I was squeezing hard. Saying nothing. Just looking into his eyes.

    I was pulled off him. I don’t think I really had the intention of killing him but it felt like it.

    Like


  284. maurice
    @chic – lol. how did you manage to post that question about D&A just before they signed on? were you e-stalking them? e-peeping in their e-room?

    *pats eyes with kleenex*

    Maurice, a woman knows her man.
    *sniffles*
    WE can sense things about you, it’s called women’s intuition. You see how they walked in one after the other right.

    *blows nose*
    First Chris left me when he found out I come from a spectrum family.
    Then whiskey LJBF me when he said we live on different coasts
    Now default has stepped out with aoefe.

    *gazes at default*
    He’s even walking differently now. Default never had a swagger like that before.

    * body racked by sobs*

    Sad/Fun fact: That’s why it’s so much easier for a woman to cheat and get away with it. As long as the third party doesn’t say anything and the girlfriend doesn’t act weird, she is home free

    Like


  285. Dave –

    You kill these with just a knife? The fuck.

    Like


  286. Default

    What ticked you off so bad? Curious minds want to know.

    Like


  287. I am a 5th generation Texan. I was raised to respect & revere women. My father & all his brothers and all their fore-bearers have personally killed bad men who more than deserved it..
    Feral hogs??? just aim for the neck.

    Like


  288. “What will be the next Roissy meme to capture the world’s imagination? Stay tuned!”

    delicious throbbing cocks and hairy assholes.

    I predict them in your near future.

    Like


  289. on June 9, 2009 at 9:27 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Depends. If the dogs got ’em pinned, than you gotta run in, grab the back legs, and stick ’em in the heart. I also carry a gun most times, because feral hogs are very smart quarry. I’ve seen dozens of hogs that will spray their piss all over the brush to confuse the hounds scent, and quietly sneak away while the dogs are running around trying to pin point the source of the spray. I’ve watched one too many hogs get away like that back when my buddies and I strictly hunted “dogs and knife,” so I bought a 30/30 lever action. If I have a shot at a boar, I’ll take it — but I still prefer the dog catch ’em. It’s cheaper on ammo…

    We don’t generally go for slashing the throat, because the dogs are usually all grabbing the nose/ears, and you might risk getting bit or gouged by the boar or one of your dogs may bite you by accident…and if you stick your blade right under the armpit and straight to the heart, the pig will die in under 6 seconds.

    Also, slashing the throat may take a longer time to bleed the fight out of the pig, giving it more time to rip your dogs up with it’s tusks.

    Like


  290. aoefe

    What ticked you off so bad? Curious minds want to know

    We were two 13-year-old males. Who knows? Maybe he said my bicycle was uncool. Maybe it was over which was better Ferrari or Lamborghini.

    Actually I cannot remember how it started. There already was some antagonism between us (cannot remember why), and that had been growing.

    However it started, it was a case of pushing turned to grappling, followed by a few punches thrown…

    Like


  291. @default

    Were you best buds after? Isn’t that what dudes do, fight it out and then act like nothing happened?

    Like


  292. aoefe

    Were you best buds after? Isn’t that what dudes do, fight it
    out and then act like nothing happened?

    That is often true. In this case we just left each other alone. We were never really friends to begin with.

    With best buddies what you said often happens: big fight, meet next day like nothing had happened.

    Like


  293. do guys like women who lift? enough to build muscle tone, but to become grossly muscular?

    Like


  294. * not to become grossly muscular

    Like


  295. Dave –

    I think you should take me boar hunting…wat the fuk. Sounds like a fucking blast.

    Like


  296. @fmrl

    I’m not into muscle bound, but strong biceps and thighs very very attractive. Oh big shoulders really make a shorter man look much bigger too, which I find attractive. For me a man who looks like he works out hours a day is likely a guy who works out hours a day and heck then he wouldn’t have time for me!

    Like


  297. @ Doug1, Default

    Truth. Default is right — once there’s attraction, he can get away with pretty much anything. And what Doug said:

    “It’s we can be nerds together and not be self conscious about it because we’re obviously both hot. It’s we speak the same language in this area too.”

    Exactly! It makes it even better/hotter, to be connecting on more than just the physical attraction level. SRSLY.

    @ chic noir

    Alright, so we (he, I) were talking about your comment:

    “I’m not a fan of wrestling with the boyfriend either because it can turn serious in a heart beat.”

    What do you mean, exactly, by “turn serious”? If you can’t playfully wrestle with your guy because you’re afraid he might accidentally beat the crap out of you, then you probably shouldn’t be with him…?

    @ aeofe

    “I kind of liked Lilgirl’s story of her boyfriend’s Neanderthal move (hair pull). That’s hotter than a satchel, vegetarians and white knighting any day.”

    THANK YOU! mmhmm.

    Like


  298. on June 9, 2009 at 10:08 pm Cannon's Canon

    “LOL! talk about incorporating the avatar!”

    good catch; i designed it in the image of my biceps

    Like


  299. chic noir

    * body racked by sobs*

    *default realizes how good chic is at pulling his heart strings*
    *tries to look unaffected*
    *dead fail*

    Like


  300. Rum,

    Humans as prey??? Speak for yourself…

    It’s bullshit like this from the science-denying parts of the right wing that pisses me off. You subset of non-thinking douchebags, as well as lefties, are part of the reason why we get our asses kicked in wars, and part of the reason why western civilization is falling. You deny science and any sort of thought over your pre-conceived bullshit and gut instinct.

    Battles are often won because the winners take advantage of the mistakes the losing side made.

    You my friend are a mistake that needs to be corrected, as you and your neanderthal ilk are going to lose us the war.

    Thank fuck for the Darwinian right, and the libertarian right. They are a voice of sanity among the science-abusing right wing proles like yourself, and the lefty ‘studies’ crowd.

    Are you hungry? Would you like a piece of Feral Hog meat? I always cook the shit out of it because they are filled with worms when you take them.

    What the fuck has that got to do with anything. See above.

    Like


  301. So Herb is a subset of Beta?

    Like


  302. @chic – fear not – you can always rely on Dave Alex for e-hugs. and you did inspire some serious e-guilt on the part of Default.

    Like


  303. on June 9, 2009 at 10:51 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    from upthread

    The messenger bag is beta argument is ridiculous. The old school leather messenger bags are very stylish, and were worn by a lot of old school Hollywood actors (and in the movies with alpha characters e.g. Indiana Jones).

    In bars?

    No.

    Like


  304. @ 87

    “(and in the movies with alpha characters e.g. Indiana Jones)”

    Indy is my first love.

    Like


  305. Default–

    Doug is right. It is very simple.

    If she is already attracted then he can get away with any line.

    If she is not attracted he can get away with nothing.

    I will go all ingrate and look your gift horse a little in the mouth.

    It’s actually BETTER to push it and get away with near anything once she’s big attracted. Actually, some all along the line as she starts to be.

    That’s all. Not going to belabor it.

    Just know you all that this doesn’t come from game books or theory. It comes from my 102 years of happily banging girls.

    But game theory appears to be 100% congruent. Which makes me think game theory is probably right, in general.

    Like


  306. Violent Game :

    Interesting. Now, how can someone who is not in one of the ‘violence approved’ professions, at least benefit a bit from this?

    In other words, the corporate employee, who happens to be Asian? What is the best way to gain some benefit from ‘violent man’ game?

    To own guns?
    To learn a bit of Martial Arts?
    To collect a few medieval weapons (swords, etc.) and hang them on the mantle?

    Ideas, anyone?

    Like


  307. Kamal:

    Buggery as a vice is often frequently found in hyper alpha warrior cultures (think federal prisons) conjoined with a general diminution of females. it makes sense contrary to modern West political correctness. After all, if a certain amount of misandry is inherent in a good deal of lesbianism, it only makes sense that homosexual buggery can be the ultimate expression of a female hating misogyny.

    I don’t buy it. It just doesn’t jibe with our understanding of sexual orientation not being a choice. There are bisexual women, and they are known to sometimes embrace lesbianism for ideological reasons, but male sexual orientation follows an almost completely bimodal distribution. Kinsey had it wrong: Nearly all men are either completely straight or gay, not somewhere in between, and they hardly ever change their orientation. So how could men engage in homosexual acts for any reason other than being gay? That’s what I don’t get. Aren’t they disgusted? I just don’t get the prison buggery either. Probably it is much exaggerated. And if it really isn’t due to being gay, I doubt misogyny has much to do with it. Extreme mate deprivation would be more plausible, but I still don’t get it.

    Sure, the Greeks had institutionalized pederasty, as apparently do the Afghans, but that institution was about educating boys and not necessarily sexual. I suspect that probably only the homosexuals actually cared to bugger the boys and the rest is overblown. I know the ancients had no concept of being gay, but rather made the distinction between top and bottom, but that does not mean biological orientation did not exist. If it exists now, then it must have existed back then, and there is no way you could have induced so many men to engage in buggery and enjoy it. Maybe they could be conditioned to be less disgusted, but they would not enjoy it, any more than I would enjoy writing with my right hand at best. That article you linked to claims that if not for the Taliban, 50% of men in Kandahar would practice homosexual sex. In my world view, men don’t want to have sex with men unless they are gay, and only at most 6% of men are gay, but there might be something I don’t understand.

    Like


  308. askjoe
    “I’ve been lucky enough to date eastern euros, and even the ones with law degrees and bitchy American friends are nice and find white knighting kinda hot.”

    &

    doug1
    “When the man has genuinely saved her from something significant, especially if all kinds of others weren’t falling all over themselves trying to do it at the same time, then there is something to that, yes.”
    “That’s not what the term “white knighting” really refers to. Instead if refers to competing to make pointless displays of chivalry that aren’t very hard to do and don’t actually impress girls at all.” & so on with chic noir and lilgirl, etc.

    doug1 was very insightful. If a guy genuinely steps in to save the day and be the HERO, it’s hot. Super hot.

    obsidian

    “Women are *seriously* (read, mad sexally) attracted to VIOLENT Men. ”
    “If you look around in our time, why do Women have a weakness for “men in uniform”? Because, such men have been “approved” to be able to be quite violent if need be; in other words, the uniform, be it military or police, serves as a proxy for that caveman thing.”
    “Actually, she gets TURNED ON by a Man displaying AN APPROPRIATE USE OF VIOLENCE. ”

    Wow, I have never thought of it that way! I have also wondered why I find policemen, firemen, and military men so attractive. Is it the posture? The self-assuredness?

    A man who is not afraid to be violent will fight to the death… he is fearless and a real man. HOT.

    Like


  309. The camera may have acted like a sort of compliance, but herb gettin it.

    Like



  310. Herbs are vegetarians. Super herbs are vegans.

    Let’s say this was 150 years ago. Remember, there are racial differences in intelligence just as there are species differences in intelligence:

    “Herbs don’t believe in owning slaves. Super herbs are abolitionists.”

    Like


  311. By the way, I got so distracted reading all of the comments I forgot to say…

    this post was hilarious! ahahahahaha

    I’ve interacted with “herby” guys before. They’re nice to talk to, but there’s definitely a weirdness there… even if the face and body look good they’re just not attractive. It’s like the guys you would look at in the yearbook and think wow he’s cute… and see in real life and be like whoa… not! lol

    Like


  312. my rubiks cude record is 36 seconds. on the alpha scale this is only half a notch below killing a wild boar with a knife.

    Like


  313. aoefe–

    @maurice

    “you’re such a girl”

    Thanks! 🙂

    (If you will accept it:)

    Kiss!

    Like


  314. Alphas use free weights. Betas use machines.

    While free weights are superior to machines for muscle-building, neither has anything to do with attractive women.

    Well, the belief that many men hold, that more muscles and a ripped torso = success with women is not just a Beta belief, but a *lesser Beta* belief.

    A lesser Beta believes that a man’s looks are what attracts women, and thus spends hours in the gym far beyond what is needed for general fitness. He fails to see that a man’s looks only matter if he is at either extreme of the bell curve. The middle 80% of men don’t see any effect from a slight rise/decline in their physical looks.

    A greater Beta figures out that this is not it, and thus concludes that money gets women. As this can be partly true, this belief stays forever, and thus is what most men end up believing permanently.

    A nascent lesser Alpha figures out the importance of Game, and how it is a disruptive technology. But he has trouble practicing Game. Thus, he still does not get results, despite his superior knowledge.

    A bona-fide Alpha is able to successfully practice Moderate Game.

    Like


  315. on June 10, 2009 at 12:04 am GNPs are for Apes

    Michelle Obama vs. Carla Bruni, side by side. Both are about the same age. Who looks better?

    Like


  316. Sorry to be a prick, ok not sorry, but what’s the deal with all the impressing the other guys at the gym stuff? Ok, wait a minute, when I was young (and dumb), maybe that stuff made sense, like worrying about who could lift what. Not saying it sounds gay, that would be a cliche of an insult, but it sure as hell is shallow.

    Like


  317. on June 10, 2009 at 12:14 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    A lesser Beta believes that a man’s looks are what attracts women, and thus spends hours in the gym far beyond what is needed for general fitness. He fails to see that a man’s looks only matter if he is at either extreme of the bell curve. The middle 80% of men don’t see any effect from a slight rise/decline in their physical looks.

    This is somewhat self-contradictory. You’re castigating betas for spending “hours in the gym far beyond what is needed” because “a slight rise/decline in physical looks” is insignificant. You’re shifting the goalposts.

    If anyone is in the gym far beyond what is needed, the gain in looks shouldn’t be “slight”. If that’s the case, then someone needs to get a trainer, and fast.

    I also think you are severely underestimating, discounting, or ignoring the absolute, unfettered power of a muscular physique with 5-6% body fat (provided it’s combined with confidence and/or swagger).

    You can get away with some pretty baaaadd shit if you’ve got that, even if your face is jacked up big time.

    Like


  318. unfettered power of a muscular physique with 5-6% body fat

    Spoken by a man who has not practiced Game.

    I will put short, bald Neil Strauss or short, pasty J-Dog against any non-Game body-builder type in a contest of pickups.

    Like


  319. So if your “satchel” is made out of “natural fiber” you’re a beta. Ok. How about, if you carry around things in a bag, you’re just a fucking loser who should kill yourself.

    Like


  320. on June 10, 2009 at 12:23 am Dave from Hawaii

    my rubiks cude record is 36 seconds. on the alpha scale this is only half a notch below killing a wild boar with a knife.

    Bah. the killing part with a knife is overrated. The dogs do all the work, you just deliver the coup de grace.

    It’s the field dressing than throwing it on your back like a backpack and carrying out of the mountains that really separates the mentally weak from the mentally strong.

    When I was a rail-thin, skinny boy of 20 years old, we once went hunting in a particularly steep river valley. One of the guys who came hunting with us was a huge, musclebound gym rat who was pig hunting for the very first time. We caught a good sized, 120 pounder. The musclebound gym rat simply quit after about 15 minutes of carrying it uphill. I carried it the rest of the way.

    I’ll never forget the look of humiliation on this guys face when I, the skinny little kid of 155 lbs., dropped the boar off my back for a breather after one particularly arduous section of mountain, and looked at the guy expectantly waiting for him to volunteer to take another turn. This guy that was probably 190 lbs. of all muscle and 2% body fat, and a purported tough guy that talked shit every time he was out with the boys, wouldn’t look me in the eyes. In fact, this big boy tough guy looked straight at the ground like a nancy-boy beta chump.

    I literally snorted with disgust and hoisted it on my back and carried it the rest of the way up the mountain side without another break. This guy never, ever talked shit in front of me again.

    Like


  321. What is it that is so objectionable about the comments here? All swagger no substance, or something. Or how about, blogging itself is beta. Or you haven’t figured that out?

    Like


  322. @doug

    “It comes from my 102 years of happily banging girls.”

    You are sexy for your age my man (not MY man, Bhetti’s man)! But then again I’ve learned here on this ole blog that men just keep getting better and better it’s us here chickies that hit the wall at 35.

    Doug said “If you will accept it:) Kiss!”

    And miss out on the ancient secrets no way Jose! Kiss me! Bhetti be damned. (just kidding Bhetti – insert nervous laughter)

    Like


  323. I am not calling into question the truthfulness of these manly exploits. Killing the boar, knife hunting, dead lifts to the moon, whatever, that’s great. Something though in the telling is missing. Oh wait, that’s right, modesty, perspective. The big picture. Your part in it. Believe it or not, cavemen had their faults.

    Like


  324. @ Tood

    “I will put short, bald Neil Strauss or short, pasty J-Dog against any non-Game body-builder type in a contest of pickups.”

    Are “having game” and “having a nice body” mutually exclusive? I think not.

    Like


  325. on June 10, 2009 at 12:39 am Dave from Hawaii

    I am not calling into question the truthfulness of these manly exploits. Killing the boar, knife hunting, dead lifts to the moon, whatever, that’s great. Something though in the telling is missing. Oh wait, that’s right, modesty, perspective. The big picture. Your part in it.

    Hey, if my intention was to brag, I would certainly link to the dozens of pictures I have from hunting…

    …but I was merely responding to Ob’s query on who had killed animals before, and someone here mentioned something about modern day hunting harmless animals with a high powered rifle is a “joke.”

    As a long time, avid hunter, I had to interject my objections to that, and share my personal experience to back it up. My modesty comes from my guarded anonymity. “Dave” is not my real name, and I do have my own blog…but I don’t participate here to whore myself for blog traffic, and I’m certainly not relating my hunting experience for some kind of “machismo glorification” purpose.

    Like


  326. Yes, it is the case, wexler is a poor sap who has not learned his game very well. He is working on it. He actually bothers with the comments because there is some (“some”) good stuff therein.

    But to say it again, the machismo has to be tempered. I said tempered with modesty before, but more to the point, it has to be tempered with failure. In a lot of the comments here, that refined characteristic is not there. I find that suspect, or impossible.

    Or else it is just shallow. If that is the case, please, leave the stories to those qualified. To tell them with perspective. Thank you.

    Like


  327. on June 10, 2009 at 12:40 am Dave from Hawaii

    …but I don’t participate here to whore myself for blog traffic.

    addendum – for all you that link to your own blogs here…

    …not that there’s anything wrong with that. lol

    Like


  328. I wouldn’t bother reading the comments if there weren’t good stuff to be found, Mr Dave from Hawaii. Those who haven’t had their humble pie, well, sooner or later.

    Like


  329. it’s us here chickies that hit the wall at 35

    So, what’s that incentive for beta males to get married again?

    Like


  330. on June 10, 2009 at 12:52 am Virginia Gentleman

    GNPs are for Apes: There’s only one possible answer, and it’s Mme Sarkozy. That’s not even a question—as much as I dislike her apparent easy ways, she does manage to look good, clothed or not. Sooner or later I’ve got to get her US-released album simply for the novelty factor.

    WRT exercise, good thing nobody’s mentioned ellipticals as betamobiles; I like using ’em, since it’s a good way to kill a known quantity of calories at a known distance and speed while not beating aging knees to death. The weight room seems like a good way to either exacerbate old injuries or find new ones, all while adding bulk that I don’t want.

    Any resources for a primarily running-centric fitness concept? I keep thinking I’d rather be fast and lean than heavy, regardless of muscle mass.

    Like


  331. “I eat at Burger King ’cause I’m not Herb
    And if your name happens to be Herb
    Just say ‘I’m not the Herb you’re looking for. Word'”

    from the Maestro Fresh Wes song “Just Swingin'”

    He is Canada’s greatest rapper (yes, we have one). I met him backstage on my birthday once. Nice chap.

    Roissy, you’re Canadian, non?

    Like


  332. on June 10, 2009 at 1:05 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    Spoken by a man who has not practiced Game.

    I will put short, bald Neil Strauss or short, pasty J-Dog against any non-Game body-builder type in a contest of pickups.

    No really, you should leave “Spoken by a man who has not…” to the G Manifesto.

    Again, meaningless statement, since those guys specialize in pickups. I mean, I’d take the bodybuilder in a contest of bench-pressing. Or grunting, waxing, tanning, or looking in mirrors.

    The point is that an absolutely ridiculous physique opens doors that simply don’t open in other ways. Hint: Strauss et al. usually take hours to “close”.

    Like


  333. @DA

    “So, what’s that incentive for beta males to get married again?”

    For the record I made my comment a little tongue in cheek. Is this blog about marriage? I missed that somewhere.

    Like


  334. The examples of machismo that I listed earlier were not specifically ones I thought part of a shallow story (well, maybe the dead-lifting). Those examples were chosen for effect. Perhaps that was shallow of me, how ironic. Now I’ve explained myself and referenced “irony”, whoa, can’t get any more beta than that! I’m not looking to pick a fight with the regulars. Best, and good night.

    Like


  335. I assume that many here are interested in weightlifting to improve your looks.

    Well we’ve all heard about wast-hip ratio for chicks. But a very important one for us is the waist shoulder ratio. The easiest way to calculate this is to take a picture of yourself and measure it on a computer. Measure the shoulder at the widest part. Ideally you’re ratio should be .75 or lower. There’s ample research to back up the idea that women are much more attracted to men with this “v” shape independent of most other things.

    This implies lateral arm raises to make the lateral deltoids pop out a bit. You’ll get an inch or two out of this. Yes this involves using dinky little 15lbs weights with your pinkies up. lat pulldowns are good for this as well. A little arm work can help with this. Developing pecs helps – but indirectly.

    The supreme importance in waist shoulder ratio has a lot of other implications as well. Certain clothes can exaggerate the waist shoulder ratio a lot – simply tucking your shirt in can make a difference.

    Female appraisal of your waste-shoulder ratio interacts greatly with your posture and the way you carry yourself. A portion of the success of the “contrapposto stance” in game can probably be attributed to the fact that not only do you look relaxed, but you are often twisted a bit.
    If you are not directly facing your target chick with your lower body, but your upper body is “twisted” towards her a bit, you have are exaggerating your apparent waste-shoulder ratio.

    Here’s something I’ve noticed, as I flirt with my target, or begin to “walk off” I can use a slight turn of my body that suddenly exaggerates the apparent WSR – especially if you have well-developed pecs. I notice when I do this that often a woman’s eyes will scan and check me out – sometimes followed up with a pupil dilation. A good WSR is important, but modulating it during strategic parts of the flirting game seems to get a lot of mileage on top of having a good WSR.

    Like


  336. on June 10, 2009 at 1:23 am Cannon's Canon

    Tood:
    “While free weights are superior to machines for muscle-building, neither has anything to do with attractive women.

    Well, the belief that many men hold, that more muscles and a ripped torso = success with women is not just a Beta belief, but a *lesser Beta* belief.”

    Chicks don’t genetically respond to beefcake. Biggest muscles never indicated evolutionary, survivalist priorities; do the math.

    I pledge to expound on this soon… my blog remains ruinous.

    For an omega, a quick squats, deads, hang cleans/push presses triumvirate of workouts once a week gives him a rocket-fueled blastoff.

    Roissy cites Tenmagnet and Cagun on his blogroll: to my memory, they both have clowned aspirant bodybuilders at the expense of amateur soccer players, in theory.

    Personally, I played a shitload of soccer until the game passed me… I’m further on the meathead bell-curve than I used to be on the soccer bell-curve, and this keeps increasing…

    But when all else fails, putting up those high-resistance core weights gives the most rewarding rush.

    Like


  337. @ JerrDogg

    “I notice when I do this that often a woman’s eyes will scan and check me out – sometimes followed up with a pupil dilation.”

    My boyfriend says: That’s some serious visual acuity, if you can see her pupils dilating as you walk off.

    Like


  338. @LIL,

    Not so much while walking off… but turning to prepare to walk off while still making eye contact.

    Like


  339. LILGRL–

    Roissy links a girl who references her boyfriend’s alpha sayings.

    That locale has been inactive for quite a while. “Things My Boyfriend Says.” Upper right corner.

    It’s actually quite good but thin. And dead for a long time.

    You and he look promising.

    Consider it.

    Like


  340. @ Doug1

    Funny, my boyfriend was just talking about that. (Roissy linking to that blog, in fact.)

    Like


  341. “Wesker”-
    But to say it again, the machismo has to be tempered. I said tempered with modesty before, but more to the point, it has to be tempered with failure. In a lot of the comments here, that refined characteristic is not there. I find that suspect, or impossible.

    Or else it is just shallow. If that is the case, please, leave the stories to those qualified. To tell them with perspective. Thank you

    You say this as is if finding examples of failure is hard.

    You could look at any PUA website for examples (masquerading as “calls for advice”). Or you could watch the media in general, and the spineless, gelletin mass they claim to be a man. Or just look around in any social setting or club. Shit, clubs leak male failure all over the fucking floor.

    Those of us who consider ourselves in the Beta spectrum when it comes to women (like myself, as of now, or I suspect, you) shouldn’t need to hear more failure.

    We can’t start our own engines. We need someone to show us how to look under the hood, and rev that motherfucker up.

    And even if the accounts are exaggerated, so what? It’s the example, and not the details, that are important.

    I’m down for a happy ending.

    Like


  342. “who else has had a kill?”

    First time poster…. Longish time reader.

    I’ve done a fair amount of fishing, which some might say doesn’t count. But, there’s nothing better than fresh-caught fish cooked up at the end of the day.

    Also, I owned a 12′ Burmese that ate rabbits. I regularly thwacked the bunny so that she could eat safely.

    Balance

    D

    Like


  343. The point is that an absolutely ridiculous physique opens doors that simply don’t open in other ways. Hint: Strauss et al. usually take hours to “close”.

    Wrong again. You won’t get anyone who actually knows about Game to agree that a muscular physique trumps Game.

    Plus, ‘hours to close’ is bad? A bodybuilder goes years without closing…

    Like


  344. My first kill I can remember was a mouse. I was a little kid playing in our sandpit (located under the verandah of our house). A mouse ran past and I grabbed it by the tail, spun it around and smashed its head into a post.

    @ HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO:

    “oh come on. Your leg press comment was just fuckin retarded. A lot of people go to the gym to get a balanced workout instead of just doing variants of curls and bench press until redundancy. Your assumption that people are only working out to show off how much weight they lift is really dumb. A guy who can squat 500+ pounds but can only bench 225 is in way way way better shape(and will look better) than some douche who can bench 300 but has never done a proper barbell squat or deadlift in his training career, and believe me there are a fuckton more in the second category. Working lower body does not equal herb, in fact people who actually squat and deadlift are like the antithesis of herb because those are the most difficult, productive, and dangerous exercised but they work mostly lower body.”

    You misunderstood Roissy’s post and actually agreed with him. By the way, a deadlift and a squat are only leg exercises. The squat is a back exercise (as well as other areas such as the leg) and the deadlift may be considered a leg exercise but it also includes other areas. Most importantly, they both, and the squat particularly, increase core strength. Core strength is the most important area for any body looking to improve their overall strength, grow bigger etc. Any whole body weight building regime should have the squat and the deadlift at its centre along with the benchpress and something like the clean.

    Roissy was talking about the herb types who do a few leg presses, or lunges, or pilates to tighten their arses so they look good in their spandex.

    I know a herb poster boy who has so little upper body strength that he ought to snap in half every time he sneezes. He, however, can stand up from a sitting position without using his hands and considers it a major accomplishment.

    @ mike: “Keys, wallet, mobile. What else do you need?”

    Condoms.

    @ Gooch:

    “Re: satchels.

    I read a lot. Paperbacks used conveniently sized to fit in the pocket. Most paperbacks are much bigger now and are called trade paperbacks. I fucking hate them.

    I also write a lot. I’m working on a novel and a collection of essays. There are copious notes.

    How the fuck am I supposed to carry my books, my legal pads, my writing notes, my iPod, etc to the library or coffee shop if I can’t use a satchel or messenger bag?

    Do I carry them in a paper bag? How about a plastic grocery bag? Is that alpha enough? Or is the only alpha option a leather briefcase that so many business douches carry?

    I think context is important. If you’re using a messenger bag for work or for a laptop, that’s fine, but don’t take to a party or bar.”

    It probably has some extra make up, a little mirror they can use to help powder their nose and a rape whistle in case some drunk biker mistakes them for a fuckable chick at 3 in the morning.

    @Wonka

    “It’s not the emphasis on picking up women that keeps me from embracing roissydom.

    I can’t entirely agree with him because his views on women/men seem inextricably linked to his views on politics at large. What roissy has yet to explain is how I can be liberal and yet agree with 90% of his views on marriage, divorce laws, and the abhorrent feminization of males. He blames liberals for these trends, and I’ve been complaining about them for a loooong time while also being near socialist. For me, roissy is missing something because his world view seems to suggest I don’t exist.”

    The reason he blames liberals is because they are responsible. Roissy’s political views probably come from his understanding of male/female dynamics. You have been complaining about the policies and actions of liberals while supporting them….why are you a liberal then?

    Also, why do you support socialism? Do you understand it? Do you think you will benefit?

    Socialism flies in the face of everything Roissy preaches. .

    When males speak of socialism they are imaging a paradise where women and work are shared and everybody gets some. To do so forces women to fuck guys they don’t want.

    When females speal of socialism they are imaging a world where beta men, such as yourself, do all the work and do not interact with the women. The women spend all their time indulging themselves and fucking alphas.

    Socialism is impossible because it flies in the face of human nature. To think otherwise is to admit you do not grasp human nature or male/female dynamics.

    + I just read another of your comments. It sounds like you support liberal politics without really thinking about it. Stop thinking in terms of your American political parties and start examining your basic beliefs. The only good book I can think of from the top of my head is Thomas Paine “Common Sense” published in 1776. Its very short and was written at a time when politics was concerned with reason and not with what was hip.

    @ Seeking Alpha: If you didn’t do it before, search for Mark Rippetoe and Starting Strength. Its the program I started with. Amazing results, and Rippetoe understands what he is talking about. I used to do squats wrong when I first started. When you are squatting properly it will be like you are sitting down. Your arse moves outbackwards, your calves stay straight and your thighs end up perpendicular to your calves. Sort of like sitting down in a chair. If you just bend your knees then you are going to injure yourself.

    @ askjoe: Years of martial arts had given me strong legs but when I started lifitng weights and doing squats they improved and became stronger (something I didn’t think was going to happen). I am not going to argue the point though.

    Like


  345. gotta laugh at a guy impersonating a high-school queen-bee trying to pass himself as some kind of superior man. Since when did men really give a hoot about what other men were wearing?

    Turn the computer off man, and get of town for a while.

    Like


  346. i work at a restaurant….i see “herbs” all the time. they’re the guys that look at their wife when i ask “what would you like to eat?”

    “should i have a beer or not” i don’t know motherfucker, do you feel like having a beer? is your harpy wife going to help you drink it too? pussy.

    they make sure its okay if they order salad instead of soup.

    they look up at her when they’re leaving the tip…”is this too much or not enough?”

    Like


  347. Question for Wexler: when’s the last time you had some pussy?

    DA: only a Man who hasn’t had some trim in years could attempt to make a real case for “Beta Game” over the real thing.

    Chic & Lovely: Please see A History of Violence, if you haven’t already. Make sure you watch the stairwell scene several times. Then re-read what I said. Everything will be illuminated for you after that.

    Dave From Hawaii: can’t get down w/the swine, neverthless you are the Man, and sorry Roissy-Rubic’s Cubes don’t count.

    Apeman: Let’s compare Condi Rice to Tony Blair’s wife, or Gordon Brown’s wife. The End.

    The Baglady Issue Revisited (Again!): listen ladies, this isn’t all that complicated-if you’re heading to the mating grounds, leave the bags at home. OK, if you’re going straight to the bar/club from the office, you should be able to leave that gear in the coat room. Lugging around bags makes you look like Linus and his security blankie. All you need is your cash (NEVER carry your cash in your wallet, keep it seperated; put the cash in your front pocket, wallet in the back), a fountain point pen which doubles as a Jason Bourne-type shiv in case things get hairy and you need to equalize the fight (you never know), your cellie, which should be in your magnetized holster on your hip and finally, your keys.

    That’s it.

    O

    Like


  348. Saddleback leather makes a good satchel popular with crooked Mexican Federales, and sundry world travelers.
    Your grandchildren will fight over it, or potentially kill you to get it if they are Alphas. The very sight of all that dead animal hide makes Herbs cry.

    They are made of 4 – 5 oz. Full Grain Leather oil tanned and made 100% from American hides, stitched with industrial marine grade UV resistant thread, riveted everywhere a weakness could develop. They are fully warranted against all defects in materials and workmanship for 100 years, unless you take it shark diving in salt water, or if an elephant stomps on it and creases the leather. It is

    The site is:
    http://store.saddlebackleather.com/

    Like


  349. Oh, and only take your man bag to a club if you decided to run a way from home again.

    Like


  350. Obsidian

    When a boy gets his first kill, its like he’s taking his first steps into a new world. You understand all of this in ways that aren’t always easy to put into words. But a few of you, in relaying your stories, its in there.

    Not me. I shot a bird off a branch with a BB-gun when I was a little kid, and I felt so guilty seeing it flop around that I fetched the cat to finish him off.

    The only time I find any satisfaction in killing an animal is when it is a pest or menace of some sort. Therefore, I could see hunting wild pigs, and would happily shoot ghetto dogs if such an activity were licensed.

    Like


  351. Wexler sounds like he has anger issues.

    Anger issues = beta.

    Like


  352. Roissy,
    does this guy qualify as a herb?
    note the dicktarget goatee and anti alpha posturing…

    is that revulsion on her face?

    Like


  353. and I think keyboard cat qualifies as the animal world’s roissy…

    Like


  354. What exactly is a ‘Beta’ again? I see the term as a guy who is ‘ho-hum average’. Others, especially D.A., use it in a derogatory way that I would personally reserve for an ‘Omega’ (read: terminal loser). And I sure as hell don’t know what a ‘Gamma’ is.

    On the other hand, I view an Alpha in the same vein as a V12 car – just as few people can afford a V12 so too are few males geniune Alphas. Just as a guy with a decent job and is willing to make sacrifices elsewhere and own a good V8 car, so too can some Betas can scrub up and get the odd chick. Then again, are guys purely Alpha or purely Beta? I can notice some guys who don’t quite have fully Alpha features but sure as hell aren’t mediocre Betas either. They’re sort of Alpha-Betas (if that makes sense).

    Talking of gym work – is this not pointless as Alphas are naturally large and muscular through birthright? A down&out Beta (bordering on Omega) or an Omega hitting the gym and trying to show off their new physique is as headscratching as seeing Spike Dudley in the WWE taking on big wrestlers? One big reason Alphas may be slow to hit the weights is the way they’re friggin strong even when they don’t work out (I’m related to such a lucky prick). But then how do you compete when an Alpha male does workouts? I met one guy who was damn close to 7 fucking feet tall and muscled up to boot! I was practically a toddler next to him.

    By the way, I agree Dexler in that Alphas don’t seem to be particularly angry types (unless you pick with a fight with them). Most of them are pretty happy-go-lucky because they know they’re pretty much at the top of the pecking order. If anything Omegas are the grumps as they’re at the bottom and if they were born centuries ago they’d either have died early on (as the runts of the litter) or would have been eunuchs managing the Sultan’s harem.

    Like


  355. OT How I hate my people…

    Unbelievable bitch causes beta nothing but suffering, rejects him, and he comes crawling back to marry her…

    http:www.jdate.com/Applications/Article/ArticleView.aspx?CategoryID=2006&ArticleID=100000131&ShowTitle=1

    Like


  356. on June 10, 2009 at 8:58 am Days of Broken Arrows

    Eurosabra,

    It’s not just your people.

    I’ve never come across any woman who had to use a dating service that was normal in real life (I can’t speak for the men).

    I had several women as Facebook friends I learned were doing online dating. One by one, I had to de-friend them because they were all raging bitches and it showed in their posts.

    The worst offender was a woman who put out a MySpace profile with a hot pic, then would make fun of the guys who tried to contact her by copying the mens’ MySpace profiles and pics to Facebook. In other words, she was such a collosal bitch, she was shaming men online just for getting in touch with her (and a lot of these weren’t bad looking guys, either).

    Anyway, as Roosh (DC Bachelor) has said (I’m paraphrasing): Women are offered cock every day. If one has to go online to find a guy, she has a problem somewhere.

    Like


  357. on June 10, 2009 at 9:00 am Seeking Alpha

    Maybe it was just the light weight, but my knees feel fine. Thanks to everyone who goaded me into doing the squats. It felt great.

    Like


  358. I can’t really equal the greatness of my buddy’s first kill, which was the neighbor’s cat with a .22.

    Mine was a fish. I pulled it in, and while it was flopping around in the back of the boat my uncle handed me the gaff and said, “Kill it.”

    Like


  359. Reality

    No one has said anything about humans confronting apex predators as individuals on a “suicide mission”. And no one doubts that anthropoid creatures were far below the top of any primeval food chain.
    At the same time, I think everybody understands that some point between then and now we got the upper hand. It is easy to surmise that that happened as guys developed the verbal skills to work as a team plus the technology to make an effective lance or spear. It also no stretch to believe that the fear that many apex predators show towards humans is because of generations of losing fights with them.
    So, where is your grumpiness coming from about this? Maybe this subject is simpler than you want to make it.

    Like


  360. on June 10, 2009 at 10:50 am lovelysexybeauty

    Interesting discussion about weightlifting and working out… I wonder how guys get bulky and avoid just getting too skinny or thin? My next body goal is to get uber hot like skinny mini toned like Megan Fox or Jessica Alba… I do lots of squats and lifts, even a little arm stuff like recommended, but hate how the muscles don’t really shrink when they tone up. Like Jessica Biel muscles, I mean she looks good but is not really petite? And I don’t want to increase testosterone by the way ewwww..

    How fo .

    How

    Like


  361. on June 10, 2009 at 10:55 am lovelysexybeauty

    Obsidian – thx for the movie rec, I was supposed to see it when it came out and the guy I was seeing then actually changed my mind saying its not really for me, I would get scared lol how funny

    Like


  362. on June 10, 2009 at 11:09 am Hofmann's Problem Child

    I’m vegetarian and I use the elliptical, and I can tell you my muscles are probably a bit bigger than Roissy’s, based on the video showing him doing pushups.

    I also know that there are plenty of herbs who post here, because their theorizing does not jibe with my extensive experience in the field.

    E.g., “Muscles don’t matter to women.” “Alphas practice game.” Etc., etc.

    Well, looks do matter, and hot women love muscular men. I see this consistently. A man can boost up his looks easily just by working out and getting in shape by dieting properly.

    Also, most alphas do not practice game in the sense that most posters here do. There is a difference between natural game and Mystery Method entertainer game. I do think though that the RSD philosophy is much closer to how naturals game.

    The biggest difference between a natural and someone who practices game is that naturals are fully congruent in their behavior and have socially optimum patterns of behavior internalized (i.e., they are not fully conscious of what they do).

    Like


  363. David Alexander

    “it’s us here chickies that hit the wall at 35”
    -aoefe

    So, what’s that incentive for beta males to get married again?

    I’ve seen some women in their late 30s and 40s (even early 50s) who look (ie. face, body, demeanor), dress, and behave far sexier, more feminine, and more appealing, than women in their teens, 20s, and early 30s. I’m not sure I agree w/ women hitting the wall at 35, especially if they take care of themselves, and / or have good genes. If you catch a good one and age together, I guess your mind and soul will sort of fuse and you’ll have a cool lifelong partner, friend, and lover. I’m hoping familiarity and deep friendship builds lasting feelings.

    Isn’t that an incentive?

    This idea of women looking “old” after 35 astounds me… plenty of good looking older women, and in today’s beauty and health market, many ways to keep oneself looking fresh with effort and lifestyle choices. I don’t think that Carla Bruni, Iman, Catherine Zeta Jones, and Cindy McCain are simply famous examples… there are plenty real life “older” women who fit the bill, as well, and without the need for plastic surgery or other unnatural enhancements. This bashing of the 40+ woman is a bit out of hand.

    (Anyway, nothing says you have to marry with someone your own age, either, if you’re scared off by the aging equality.)

    Like


  364. on June 10, 2009 at 11:23 am Seeking Alpha

    Dreamer –

    Quite simply, who is more attractive? 41 year old Carla Bruni or 19 year old Carla Bruni?

    Like


  365. Dreamer,
    Although you make many good points and I don’t personally have an axe to grind w/older Women, on the objective evidence I’d have to agree w/Seeking Alpha-all things being equal, a say, 25 year old Woman beats out a 45 or 55 year old Woman. From the standpoint of reproductive fitness-which is a huge factor for most Men-the plain truth is, even in our time, there is a ceiling or limit to which a Woman can be both fecund/beautiful while also being an advanced age. That’s just the facts.

    O

    Like


  366. . I’m not sure I agree w/ women hitting the wall at 35, especially if they take care of themselves, and / or have good genes. If you catch a good one and age together, I guess your mind and soul will sort of fuse and you’ll have a cool lifelong partner, friend, and lover. I’m hoping familiarity and deep friendship builds lasting feelings

    this paragraph serves as a case study for kool-aidism

    Like


  367. Some disjointed points…

    Culture is passed down from parent to child. There is no “gay culture” just a dominant that either allows or suppresses various behaviors. Both the ancient Greeks and ancient Romans would have laughed in the face of anyone suggesting same-sex marriage.

    Blogging is not beta. Blog like this are analogous to the Greek philosophers sitting around pontificating about life, human nature and society. (Dave in Hawaii has a really good blog, too but since he doesn’t advertise here neither will I)

    Chic

    “We are too sloppy and we love to wear logos.”

    Preschoolers recognize dozens of brand names and symbols but can’t find the USA on a globe. Even if they don’t watch television, they are exposed to it everywhere unless they live remotely, are home schooled and don’t ever venture to stores or restaurants beyond little mom and pop operations.

    They recognize characters like Ronald McDonald and actors but not historic or political figures. Vacuous celebrity has become the new honor. Buying stuff is the new noble deed.

    Like


  368. what’s that incentive for beta males to get married again?

    If you’re not planning to breed and raise the resulting spawn together, there’s not much point to it.

    Like


  369. chic noir burbled:

    When I see academics on TV, more often that not, they have more feminine looking features regardless of race. Male academics tend to have softer looking faces like DA.

    Newt Gingrich has a feminine babyish looking face as did Limbaugh before his addiction.

    you’re so sharp for noticing this babygirl. It’s the same thing with Cornell West with his cloying speech and dandy clothes. Jesse Jackson with his non-existent chin, Sharpton with his effeminate hairstyle and portly gut. Malcolm X (I mean, Malcolm Little) sure had a slender, graceful, boyish, smooth face – even when he got out on his armed robber/pimping/assault charges.

    And that academic Harvard smartypants Barack Obama. Jeez, the stuff we two could come up with on his effeminate mannerisms.

    guess you were too busy on the blackberry to notice. you’re the best!

    Like


  370. Dreamer —

    The center of gravity of this blog is young guys. Say abt 30 flat. Lots of twenty somethings. Lots of early thirties. Some older dudes. Roissy is I think 32, give or take a year.

    The view here, both of Roissy and his fans, is that women should marry by 30. At the oldest. It would be better if they married by 25, but that’s being optimistic. So maybe she finds her husband at 27 and goes final at 29.

    What’s this based on? Pure ideology, like the feminist left, informing Sex and the City, etc.?

    No actually. Women’s fertility starts declining after 25. It declines rapidly after 30. By 35 a lot of women, not just a few though probably not yet a majority, but a LOT of women become infertile. It certainly takes much longer to get pregnant. The risk of birth defects goes WAY up.

    The media treat all these things as just the modern age. Or something we’re just now becoming more aware of. They virtually never treat it as the consequence of women waiting WAY too long for their biology to try to have children. WAY too long.

    Further and maybe more important for men here there’s the bonding and sluttification factor.

    Hot women 7 and up, and hell in many cases 6 and up are thrill f*cking alphas whenever they can. Making sluts of themselves to do it in many cases. Further, since there isn’t a label that is attached to every alpha and denied to every higher beta, women don’t always get it right the first time, and so f*ck more guys.

    Many think that the ability / likelihood of serious for life bonding for women goes way down once they’ve fallen deeply in love once, and then had their heart broken. And also once they’ve sluttified themselves to varying degrees which is a topic of debate around here.

    Hope that’s cleared things up a tad.

    Oh finally. For the long term. It’s likely to work best if your husband’s 5-10 years older than you. If he’s really a catch and really has stuff on the ball, 15 might be best.

    Like


  371. Arpagus: “Gays can have sex any time they want just like women can, so I really don’t see how this distinction is relevant. At least there would be no compelling reason for a gay man to aspire to be alpha, methinks.”

    Some gays are more masc and some more fem, so the dynamics can be akin to men-women, which is why game works in the gay world as well.

    True, gays can have sex any time, just like anyone else. Pay a prostitute or fuck someone ugly. Don’t forget that men are visually wired, whether gay or straight–so looks are important. You need serious game to land the 9s and 10s, because attention is so available to them, and they know it.

    Like


  372. Doug,
    Very well put. I have my doubts about the whole “inability to bond” thing some here and elsewhere put forward (and I must say, that I have never heard a Black Man say such a thing; that said, and being fair, the Black marital rate isn’t very high, soo…*shrugs*), and see it as still being very much an open question.

    But what cannot be denied are the basic biologcal realities you just noted. I feel so badly for so many Women who were duped, deceived and in many ways, cheated by their elders, especially other Women, who didn’t tell them about these very important life matters. Simply put, Women have a “shelf life” when it comes to childbearing, courting, cohabitation and marriage. Wait too long and you could miss the boat-for good. Yet another reason why I say that Feminism’s biggest victims, ultimately, arent we Men-we do get thrown under the bus in many ways, but our pain is acute. The biggest losers are Women themselves. Because what they lose, is profound, and often, permanent.

    O

    Like


  373. There are many assumptions regarding age and women that seem to try to put women in a cage and rush them into a commitment that may not be right for them. I agree that a woman marrying an older man is a good idea in terms of the woman having a lover and a sort of role model all in one, but there is also much to be said about two young people of the same age (2-3 years range) falling in love, building a relationship and friendship, and solidifying their relationship through marriage.

    Maybe a woman is most fertile in her 20s, for sure, and I agree that a woman is best suited for reproduction in 20s and early 30s. But people are living longer, and it is not impossible for a woman in her late 30s or even early 40s to give birth or, more wisely, adopt a child and raise them happily.

    It seems a sort of female-bashing and limiting idea that women have a “looks” expiration date of 35. I was not at all speaking to their fertility levels, which in this age, can be overcome in numerous ways (just like one can halt the reproductive process in several manners).

    Re: Hot women having tons of sex w/ alphas
    I’m not exactly sure where this idea that a woman’s beauty makes her more likely to be having tons of sex and chasing around “alpha” men comes from. If anything, a woman’s beauty may make her more prone to selectiveness.

    And a woman who has fallen in love multiple occasions may be a far wiser and pliable lover and mate, you never know 🙂 So, Carla Bruni at 25 will be too much to handle, while Carla Bruni at 40 will be mature, wise… and beautiful.

    Like


  374. Obsidian wrote

    Very well put. I have my doubts about the whole “inability to bond” thing some here and elsewhere put forward

    As a woman, I’ll say there is validity to it. It may be more a “difficulty to form further bonds” than an all out inability. At least in my case, I love my husband but I really wish he was the first man I loved. Not because of a shortcoming in the other man so much as I think it would make my marriage closer and more special.

    But what cannot be denied are the basic biologcal realities you just noted. I feel so badly for so many Women who were duped, deceived and in many ways, cheated by their elders, especially other Women, who didn’t tell them about these very important life matters. Simply put, Women have a “shelf life” when it comes to childbearing, courting, cohabitation and marriage. Wait too long and you could miss the boat-for good. Yet another reason why I say that Feminism’s biggest victims, ultimately, aren’t we Men-we do get thrown under the bus in many ways, but our pain is acute. The biggest losers are Women themselves. Because what they lose, is profound, and often, permanent.

    Yes, Yes, Yes and black women in particular seem to be left in the dust by this arrangement.

    What can we do? I’ll teach my children but they’ll be swimming in a sea of misguided or delusional people. Dangers abound.

    Like


  375. Rome82:

    True, gays can have sex any time, just like anyone else. Pay a prostitute or fuck someone ugly.

    Like so many women you really don’t get it. Fucking someone ugly is far harder than you can imagine. I consider no girl too ugly, yet it takes me years to get laid. There is no ability to have sex “just like anyone else” for a lot of heterosexual men. We are the sexual pariah caste, literally untouchable. That’s how selective women are.

    Like


  376. Dreamer

    There are many assumptions regarding age and women that seem to try to put women in a cage and rush them into a commitment that may not be right for them. I agree that a woman marrying an older man is a good idea in terms of the woman having a lover and a sort of role model all in one, but there is also much to be said about two young people of the same age (2-3 years range) falling in love, building a relationship and friendship, and solidifying their relationship through marriage.

    If done w/in a few years of getting out of high school, this type of relationship generally lasts the longest.

    Maybe a woman is most fertile in her 20s, for sure, and I agree that a woman is best suited for reproduction in 20s and early 30s. But people are living longer, and it is not impossible for a woman in her late 30s or even early 40s to give birth or, more wisely, adopt a child and raise them happily.

    Science has prolonged lives, not changed underlying biology. Adoption is not the same as giving birth to your own child or passing on your own genes. While, often adoption works out for everyone’s benefit, I have no idea why this would be wiser than having your own biological child. It is very natural for women to crave this.

    It seems a sort of female-bashing and limiting idea that women have a “looks” expiration date of 35. I was not at all speaking to their fertility levels, which in this age, can be overcome in numerous ways (just like one can halt the reproductive process in several manners).

    Looks are subjective and entirely in the domain of mens’ desires. No matter how beautiful you feel or believe a particular older woman to be, can change the fact that biology hardwires men to prefer youth if given the choice. Perhaps a few older men who already had children would disagree but I doubt many would.

    IVF and other technologies to help older women have babies are expensive and often have side effects (emotional and physical.) No way, no how is that a good substitute for having a baby the old fashioned way.

    Re: Hot women having tons of sex w/ alphas
    I’m not exactly sure where this idea that a woman’s beauty makes her more likely to be having tons of sex and chasing around “alpha” men comes from. If anything, a woman’s beauty may make her more prone to selectiveness.

    Well I actually agree that a woman’s beauty is not what makes her more prone to having many partners. Instead it is a mindset.

    And a woman who has fallen in love multiple occasions may be a far wiser and pliable lover and mate, you never know 🙂 So, Carla Bruni at 25 will be too much to handle, while Carla Bruni at 40 will be mature, wise… and beautiful.

    Wiser in the ways of romance and sex, perhaps but at great cost. Men generally do not find experience to be a great turn on.

    Also this experience would not make her wiser in the area of maintaining a long term bond or nurturing children. In fact it would probably work against her in both regards as she would be spending her youth not learning how to be a good wife to him and good mother to his kids.

    If you are talking about a one night stand then I guess you may have some men agreeing with you. But long term? NO WAY!

    Like


  377. Dreamer you sound liek a Dreamer women exprie at 30, they just don’t look as good some people deny this but its painfully obvious that those gusy are zeros. and dotn even bother with the straw man arguement. that’s flat out wrong

    Like


  378. Mandy,
    I’ve mentioned Dave Simon, the creator of the critically acclaimed HBO series The Wire, here before; I saw an in depth interview he had w/Bill Moyers.

    Among the many things Simon talked about, was a bitter truth-that African Americans, taken as a group, not necessarily individuals, were bascially no longer needed by American Society. In a word, Black folk were obsolete, and this goes a long way toward explaining so many of the things we see on that score. When America shifted from an agrarian to an industrial and finally, a services/information-based society/economy, Black folk-especially Black Men-were hit especially hard.

    Now, of course, this piece is very important, because Black Women, like any other Woman, wants a Man who can provide for her and her kids. And for virtually the whole of American history, Black Men had a much harder time doing this than other Men, particularly White-hence the always higher out of wedlock birthrates, the higher divorce rates, and the higher never married rates, among both Black Men and Women.

    Less than a half century ago, 3 out of 4 Black Women could expect to marry in their lifetime; today in 2009, its 1 in 4, if that.

    At Howard University, one of the nation’s historically Black colleges, there are somthing like 10 Black Women to every Black Man. This trend is the same throughout the university system, Black or White.

    And because a mutual lack of attraction between White Men and Black Women, we can be reasonably sure that not many will marry…perhaps 5%, if that?

    So, it all adds up to quite a sizable number of Black Women spending a good chunk of their lives, without a mate-and alone. And let’s be clear here-this isn’t a choice borne of heady doses of You Go Girl Feminism, but rather a circumstance imposed on them as a result of the things Simon noted.

    Let me end on this note. I happen to know a Black Women, nearing 50 years of age. She’s a BAP, was lucky to have beem born to good parents, in a nice suburban neighborhood in one of the richest per capita states in the Union. She had a stress free life, went to a good college, and got a series of great jobs. Currently she’s a VP of something or other in one of the skyscrapers in NYC.

    As a result of the many lucky breaks she got in her life, coupled w/hard work on nher part, she’s now a certified millionaire, she’s got at least a cool mil in the bank, and her home is worth upwards of a mil. By any account, she’s a success bigtime.

    And she’s alone. Well, if you count her cat, she’s not alone. You know what I mean.
    Because she’s a bit hoity toity, a Blue Collar Brotha wasn’t good enough for her, and there weren’t enough Corporate Brothas to go around; besides, she always liked the White guys in the office. Of course, problem was, that the feeling wasn’t mutual.

    Now she’s 49 years old, and the Brothas she once turned her nose up to a quarter century ago wouldn’t shag her w/their worst enemy’s so & so.

    Its kinda sad to see this lady. She takes yearly vacations in Aspen, the Berkshires, Jamaica, Greece-all alone. In many ways, hers is an empty life. And trust me when I tell ya, she is miserable. And goes off the rails in an Id sortt of way, when she sees her female relatives with their Men and babies.

    So, in a lot of ways, its tough being a Black Men. But I wouldn’t be teling the truth if I didn’t see what my Sistas are up against.

    Deep.

    O

    Like


  379. Arpagus,

    It’s because the men who try that route are either too arrogant or too nervous, thinking that they only need to show up, or that they are really pathetic for potentially messing up a “sure thing.” I suppose one COULD do it as a “test to destruction” kind of thing, dealing with women who MUST be social outliers of a sort. One thing to note is that virtually ALL women have extensive friendship networks of other women, no matter how freakish in appearance, so they are more likely to be reasonably socialized than men, who tend to be isolated as soon as they are not the top achievers.

    I think a detailed socio-demographic analysis of how and when you get laid is useful for the men who go years in between, and then the application of game to exactly that demographic, like “Fat Brunettes from Stavanger, Age 18-24.” Maybe not that precise, but a general read of your “type”, which will be (for starters) women who are attracted TO YOU, not necessarily all the women TO WHOM you are attracted.

    I don’t have any answers, other than that that is what Game is for, to get you started on the road to success, however winding it may be.

    Like


  380. Arpagus,

    A guy thinks no girl is too ugly, but still can’t get laid? Come on. I don’t advocate preying on girls with low self esteem and conspicuously lower status than oneself, but a man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do.

    Like


  381. Eurosabra, Rome82–

    There was a website here in Norway made to help obese, retarded, handicapped women find companionship. When it became known, it was absolutely inundated with men seeking sex and apparently thinking this would be easy. So much so that I didn’t even bother checking out the site myself after reading about the stampede to hook up with those obese retarded women because I just knew the competition would be overwhelming. An average man is incomparably sexually worthless even compared to an obese woman with Down’s syndrome. I guarantee you, there is no such thing as a sure thing and there is no such think as girl who can’t get laid.

    But yes, focusing on fat (but not necessarily retarded) women makes it a little less hopeless and that is what I am doing.

    Another thing I tried, while living in the US, was writing letters to women in prison, thinking they would be a little easier, but the competition turned out to be overwhelming there too, and the women were mostly just trying to get me to send them money, which I foolishly did. I know that because twice after the woman was released, she did not want to see me anyway but still asked for money (at which point I of course refused).

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  382. @obsidian

    tell us, be sincere. you have fucked the VP chick!

    @aspargus

    lowering your standards makes getting laid easy. it is better than celibacy and, depending on you, a prologue to banging higher quality girls.

    @ dreamer

    I would feel completely humiliated to sit in the same table with my wife, mother of my children, and a man who has fucked her before, say, before our marriage. if a woman is fuked by a guy, all the guys in HIS social circle that have OPTIONS, will eliminate her from any “potential wifes” list

    Like


  383. Mandy

    incorrect; beauty is objective. its like the attraction switches you get taught in pick up (leader of men etcetera). what are qualities that are universally attractive in women? perk boobs, good hips, non-sagging arse, clear skin, clean hair, not too fat, not too skinny and a caring personality (not an ultra tomboy) are some. i think we can all agree that all those make for a damn fine lady. best part is: theyre all just indicators of a girls health and ability to harbour babies; boobs for breast feeding, 0.7 hip to waist ratio is the Perfect proportions for having a baby (look it up), perk boobs and tight arse are general signs of youth (which means better fertility. did you know that girls are at their most fertile in their late teens?), clear skin, hair and weight are signs of a healthy gene pool and that she can groom of herself and therefore her young, and the caring personality shows that she will take good general care of her babies. fascinating aye.
    awesome thread by the way.

    ever heard of the golden ratio? beauty is found in geometry, math the natural world and human faces certain should be certain rations to each other, beauty is science NOT subjectivity….. if anyone thinks otheriwse they are fucking stupid

    Like


  384. Tarl

    I can’t really equal the greatness of my buddy’s first kill, which was the neighbor’s cat with a .22.

    Mine was a fish. I pulled it in, and while it was flopping around in the back of the boat my uncle handed me the gaff and said, “Kill it.”

    You killed the fish with a gaff hook? We always took a club along for that purpose — no need to tear a hole in its flesh.

    If you really want to see cold-blooded killing, go to a Chinese market sometime. The animals are kept alive in cages to ensure freshness. The customer inspects the animals, then chooses the tastiest looking one (it is very personal). The peasant hawker then seizes the animal from the cage, beats it into submission with a club, and throws it, still twitching, right into a big kettle full of boiling water. With pigs, they hoist them, squealing in terror, up over a bucket by the hind trotters, then cut their throats. The pain and fear aroused in the struggling pig causes it to writhe in paroxysmal terror, which more rapidly and completely sprays its blood into the bucket.

    I have seen the grim demise of many a poor beast on the bloodstained cobblestones of the alleys of old Beijing.

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  385. You’re absolutely right Sisko, beauty is objective. I miswrote that in my post.

    Like


  386. Check out http://www.tlc-trust.org.uk. The UK is at the forefront of disabled sex advocacy in many ways, and one of the more interesting and perhaps problematic ones is the advocacy of paid sex workers’ provision of services to disabled men *and women.*

    The website you discussed is more of a social issue than anything else, and I would be afraid of being accused of being a fetishist, since I have dated skinny, able-bodied women, fat women, disabled women, and disabled fat women in the past. If you can genuinely connect with a person for whatever reason, for a mutually-satisfying arrangement, there is no harm done, legally or morally, and if anything I would applaud the Scandinavians for recognizing these women as consensual (hmm, I suppose “legally-competent adult”) sexual actors. With the age of consent at 16, and criminalisation of the purchase (but not the sale) of sexual services, Norway seems to be one of the “to each according to his ability, from each without respect to his needs” states, that is, totally sexually anarcho-libertarian and decreeing that people’s, really men’s, lack of attractiveness is their own problem. (I.e., not allowing men legally to leverage economic dependency or economic incentives for sex.)

    I am tempted to reply with you that women’s lack of safety is therefore their own problem as well, but I doubt Scandinavian men really want to follow the Islamist route of urban gang-bangs. Noblesse oblige and all that.

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  387. TLC Trust looks like a great initiative, but though they may pay lip service to providing sex workers to disabled women as well as men, there is no such need as all disabled women are more desirable than normal men. I understand Britain may be next in line to ban the purchase of sex but not selling. It is so bad in Norway that gifts are included as well, not just money for sex. Women are to have sex only out of their own desire, for themselves, or else the man is a criminal in all cases.

    And don’t be fooled by the law cursorily treating Scandinavian women as consensual adults from 16 (15 in Sweden) even if they are slightly retarded. Consent is only good until the woman regrets sex, at which point it falls under the all-inclusive feminist concept of rape or at the very least, the law against gaining sex with a woman on the basis of a position of trust, which would cover just about anyone a disabled woman comes into contact with.

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  388. Well, we’re just going to have to learn Game or learn to live without sex then, eh? I don’t know what to do about the “everything is always impossible” dynamic, except perhaps to learn to live for one’s work.

    Like


  389. The truth hurts Mandy, I’m glad you’ve come around

    Like


  390. Obsidian, you are making some very interesting comments regarding race relations in America, and the dating / marriage scene for black people.

    I would have to think that for an upwardly mobile black man in today’s society, it’s just as difficult for him to find a suitable mate as it is for an upwardly mobile black woman.

    Regarding the late 40s/ 50 y/o example you supplied, I have to think that a woman this “perfect” must have turned down a number of men throughout her 20s and 30s, and perhaps didn’t understand what was coming ahead. That is a sad thought. 😦

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  391. There is a review, covered in the BBC Online, of women who paid for sex http://www.bbc.co.uk/ouch/features/disabled_women_who_pay_for_sex.shtml. There is a potential problem with the “controlled for gain” section of a new (2009) crime bill, which might outlaw agency-brokered escort services. (Escort services themselves are legal in the UK.) The UK already has “position of trust” provisions which are more limited than the potential ones you outline in Scandinavia. Guess ordinary men had better work on becoming desired by women.

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  392. Arpagus–

    You seem to be saying that Norwegian alphas are banging virtually all Norwegian women.

    Why would they want to do the 4s and down. Or for that matter the 5s?

    Or is what you’re really saying you’re an omega, a male 2 or 3 in Norway. Your pic doesn’t make you look like one.

    Though it would be hard to pick a wimpier job/profession than grad study of Latin these days a number of years behind your classmates due to indecision about specialty.

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  393. Dreamer–

    I would have to think that for an upwardly mobile black man in today’s society, it’s just as difficult for him to find a suitable mate as it is for an upwardly mobile black woman.

    No. Not close.

    There’s a huge shortage of black men. Particularly black men that white collar black women feel comfortable dating, most of them, status wise etc.

    Several years ago the NY Times noted on it’s main editorial page, in the context of trying to be helpful in some way that I don’t recall, that 25% of black men in America in their twenties are either in jail, on jail awaiting trial, or on probation. It’s often said that the percentage of black men in jail is higher than those in college.

    Black women, with lower testosterone (though very high for women) and less trouble following rules and authority (though often quite a lot of that) or concentrating on a single task before them, and with double affirmative action, black AND female working in their favor, have done quite well in post 70s America. Black men a lot less so.

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  394. Eurosabra —

    Alright, maybe some disabled women hire male escorts, but it would be ridiculously simple for them to get the same attention for free. It’s not like women have to have sex every day in a normal relationship either. Just talking is fine sometimes if that’s what they feel like. By the way, the proposed British law is much less extreme than the Norwegian and Swedish one. Being “controlled for gain” is not a requirement here; the man is a criminal even if the woman is only working for herself by her own volition and provably has no trafficker or pimp whatsoever.

    Like


  395. [email protected]
    Why don’t Scandinavian men protest these things en masse? My (stereotyped) impression of Nordic societies is that they were small, non diverse, historically and culturally homogenous population of men. Unlike the USA or the UK. This should make then less susceptible to social engineering by particularistic special interest groups, in particular when these interests threaten the long standing Liberty tradition in your lands…

    [email protected]
    Aww.. you’re kinda adorable. Really.

    [email protected]

    I utterly disagree with you, you are missing the point.

    “I’ve seen some women in their late 30s and 40s (even early 50s) who look (ie. face, body, demeanor), dress, and behave far sexier, more feminine, and more appealing, than women in their teens, 20s, and early 30s. “

    I have met some exquisite women in their 30s, without a doubt, and even 40s, exquisite on aesthetic grounds as well as on magnetic sex appeal.

    I have no prejudice towards older woman, my first lover was pushing 40 at the time (and sadly enough, I made her come for the first time in her life.. but that is a story for another day.) I would date a lovely older woman still, though my wanting a couple of children someday may affect my ultimate choices in partners. The point is that I can appreciate the mature nuanced beauty of an older woman.

    However, and this is not to knock older women in any way, but it is a fact. And I must honestly state it. I’d be lying my ass off – utterly disingenuous – if I said they had the same raw physical appeal as even stupid, silly, immature, bratty 18 and 19 year olds. And in states with more liberal consent laws, 17.

    No beautiful woman over 35 has ever had the sheer visceral, instinctual, “take my breath away” appeal in the way that their counterparts in beauty, hot 17, 18, 19, 20, or 21 year olds, have had. Really. Though I do find an endearing beauty in certain soft aspects of an aging woman’s face, like small slight crow’s feet, or a gentle slight sagging of her breasts. This may be simple sexual imprinting on my part, given that some of my formative erotic experiences were with older women.

    Still there is something about being able to see subtle beauty, nuances, things most people simply miss. Finding the latent beauty behind things that society may think of as flaws… my eyes, and heart, is always open.

    But the affect a hot younger woman has on me physically is irrational.

    And certainly 20 and 21. I do not date women under 25 simply because I find them a pain in the ass, I will say that the last 19 year old I was with was physically an experience that I will never, ever, forget. The fact that she was a raving twit with the maturity of a 7 year old doped up on Ephedrine pills is besides the point. I’m talking about physicality and instinctive desires.

    “I’m not sure I agree w/ women hitting the wall at 35, especially if they take care of themselves, and / or have good genes. If you catch a good one and age together, I guess your mind and soul will sort of fuse and you’ll have a cool lifelong partner, friend, and lover. I’m hoping familiarity and deep friendship builds lasting feelings.”
    My last ex, who I almost married, was pushing the 35 wall. She had extremely good genes. Her mother was radiant at 61 even. When I decide to have children finally, I might knock on the girl’s door again..

    Women like her are genetic abnormalities. Pleasant ones, but lets face it. Adjusting heavily for race (some racial types physically age slower than others) 35 is seriously pushing it.

    This isn’t sexist. I don’t like it. I wish it were otherwise. But it’s a fact. The older women who do, honestly do, turn me on, are a)rare, and b) again no matter how beautiful made pale by even some mediocre examples of younger women. Even fugly ones with good bodies. There is something to their youthfulness that transcends just looks, it’s something a man’s body reacts to on an unconscious level. I can ignore it, because most younger women are frankly annoying ditzes, but I can still recognize it..

    Like


  396. Arpagus–

    What’s life like for a Norwegian alpha? Are you friends or even friendly terms acquaintances with any? Would you call them, all three grades (lesser, solid, and super alphas) combined about 15% of the population.

    Aside from Roissy’s chart of various characteristics, I think one of the things that separates alphas is that they can get casual sex with hot women (7’s and up) with some frequency, and solid alphas can get it quite readily.

    How would you compare the proclivity of Norwegian girls in their twenties and early thirties to have casual or fast (by third date say) sex with that of American girls?

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  397. “metrosexual is close but herbs are also ideologically self-effacing..”

    Metrosexual: A man who makes tender love to his designer jeans, but rough fucks his reflection in a mirror.

    This is my working definition based on samples of the species I’ve observed in the wilds of New York, Vancouver, and London.

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  398. Herbs are about non violence, being in touch with their feminine side, doing at LEAST half the housework regardless of how many more hours they MAY do at money work, not being disrespectful to women ever, believing that women are really the better gender in every way and more equal than men, etc.

    Metrosexuals do overlap but are more about following gay fashion sense and being stylish in that gay aping sort of way.

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  399. @Kamal
    Very well put! My thoughts were more in terms of a woman, within a marriage, in her mid 30s or beyond, still having appeal to her husband. In fact, married women are probably better preserved overall.

    I would sincerely (and sadly) have to doubt that a single woman in her mid 30s or older would have high chances of marrying. Dating, certainly, but marrying is another story.

    My idea is to say that women in their mid 30s + can maintain more beauty and attractiveness. But I’m not speaking on their chances of marriage.

    @Doug
    Upwardly mobile black men seeking a suitable black female match… would have a hard time. Just a clarification. For those percentages that are not in jail or fighting the law somehow, I feel it is hard from them, too, to find a black match… but this is another story entirely. Very off-topic.

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  400. You killed the fish with a gaff hook?

    I hit it with the other side of the pole, that didn’t have the hook on it. Basically it was a billy club with a hook on it.

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  401. Hot women 7 and up, and hell in many cases 6 and up are thrill f*cking alphas whenever they can.

    Admittedly, I don’t blame them. Would you have sex with a beta male if you could have access to an alpha male? Why squander good looks on awful sex with men who can’t please you? I don’t see you guys having sex with fat women to boost their moral and make them feel better.

    The biggest losers are Women themselves.

    They won their autonomy, the ability to work in high paying professional and middle class jobs, the ability to have sex with alphas, and no need to marry the beta males they never found attractive. In turn, beta males were freed from being the sole earners, and they were able to weed out the women who never really loved them. I’d argue that everybody is a winner.

    supporting it without reaping the benefits like alphas do

    Avoiding women who never loved you or found you interesting is a benefit.

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  402. “Herbs” drive Roissy insane because you can’t live in DC without seeing that “herb” types do fine with girls and frequently marry attractive women. Which basically blows Roissy’s ideology all to pieces. So he can’t help but get all bitchy about them.

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  403. Admittedly, I don’t blame them. Would you have sex with a beta male if you could have access to an alpha male?

    DA, women quite obviously have enthusiastic sex with and pair off with all kinds of men, certainly including “beta” or “herb” types. You keep telling yourself they don’t because you need an excuse not to make an effort with women and continue wallowing in self-pity, which you’ve become addicted to. You’re exactly like a fat chick reaching for the next pint of Ben & Jerry’s because she tells herself guys just want perfect 10s, so why should she even bother not being a fat slob.

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  404. #1 herb:
    “Herbs” drive Roissy insane because you can’t live in DC without seeing that “herb” types do fine with girls and frequently marry attractive women.

    most herbs who’ve managed to pair off have chubby, plain jane girlfriends. the few who score cuties are noticeable for their rarity.

    You’re exactly like a fat chick reaching for the next pint of Ben & Jerry’s because she tells herself guys just want perfect 10s, so why should she even bother not being a fat slob.

    so you are saying a fat chick should slim down and become more alpha if she wants to attract a man.
    glad to see you embracing my ideology.

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  405. “herb” types do fine with girls and frequently marry attractive women

    No, herbs get cuckolded as they have sex with Roissy and other alpha males.

    women quite obviously have enthusiastic sex

    That presumes beta males are capable of such sex with women which they are not. They lack the testosterone to do so, and the beta penalty brake would prevent him from engaging in Roissy-esque sex moves.

    a fat chick reaching for the next pint of Ben & Jerry’s because she tells herself guys just want perfect 10s, so why should she even bother not being a fat slob

    Somehow, I’d imagine that the ice cream will provide a better orgasm than any beta male is capable of providing. If she can’t get an alpha if she loses weight, then the best option is to stay fat and enjoy food. Why lose weight to have sex with the human version of a broken vibrator?

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  406. david alexander is this you at 4:06?

    Like


  407. Dreamer,
    Good question. I once heard that you told predict w/some degree of accuracy which Black Women were most likely to be married-those earning 40K and above. Maybe some of the numbers-crunchers out there can check this out, but it could make sense. What I do know is that, just on a basic level, Black Women have a tough time finding their way down the aisle.

    The reason? Well, from where I sit, and keep in mind I have three sisters of my own, two of three have married, is because many Black Women who’ve gone on to college and the like refuse to “settle”-meaning they aren’t interested in marrying a Blue Collar Brotha. And in fairness, there are many Blue Collar Brothas who have problems w/BAP type Sistas-look, let’s face it, in America, hell, anywhere, Money is Power, and Black Women, who have always made more money than Black Men on the whole, are quite used to having that power. It explains why many Black marriages don’t last.

    The number of Black Male professionals is small, and these guys found out quick that their worth on the “respectable” dating/marriage market is quite high-Black Women aren’t the only ones who are interested. And in a country that stil maintains a White beauty standard-what I like to call the Barbie Doll standard-its understandable in a way, why an OJ or a Tiger, to name a few, go the Barbie route.

    Doug was correct to note the double benefits Black Women received over the past nearly half century, that of being a “double minority” by being both a Woman and Black, and, like or not, Affirmative Action, among other things, have been good to them as a group. Even Welfare has been shown to be a big help to Black Women, far and away moreso than for Black Men.

    As you might expect, many Black Women are quite upset that the relatively few successful Black Men don’t always choose them and decide to marry, or at the least, date outside of the race. What a lot of Black Women don’t seem to realize, was that there are tradeoffs to everything in life. I don’t like it, but the truth is, its much easier for a Black Man to get the interest of Women of other races in America than the other way around-put that together with the simple fact that the more education a Woman gets, the harder it will be for her to attract potential mates, and we see another kind of double-whammy that to me kinda forms the doubleedged sword for Black Women-theyve done well economically, educationally and socially, but the downside is they’ll be fewer longterm pair bonding options for them as a direct result.

    As for Black Men, who’ve faced high double digit unemployment figures for decades, just keeping one’s head above water is a daily struggle. When big manufacturing left the big cities for the suburbs, along with White Flight in the 60s & 70s, and eventually out of the country altogether, as noted earlier, Black Men were hit especially hard. Well, why don’t they do what Black Women did, get an education, etc, et al, right? Well, I think there are a number of reasons why, but one of them was, again, Black Women got a serious boost that wasn’t available to Black Men. Of course, many Black Women refuse to recognize this, because, like many middle class folk, they’d rather like to believe that they got by on their own pluck and no luck. But the truth is that had it not been for Affirmative Action and Feminism, basically happening at the same time, Black Women would never made it as far as they have-and let me be clear here-i don’t knock anybody’s hustle, I aint gonna front, if I were a Black Woman I would have taken advantage of those opportunities, too. I’m just sayin.

    And a lot of White folks know exactly what I mean.

    Which brings me to another reason why you see relatively few Black Men walking the corridors of Corporate America-its because White folk prefer it that way. Studies show that Black Men w/degrees are still twice as likely to be unemployed as their White counterparts, and this holds true among the previously incarcerated and paroled, too. Simply put, and I know some don’t wanna hear this, being a White Male still means something in early 21st century America. It means at the very least, you get a shot to audition for a job, unlike so many Black Men whose resumes go right in the trash when a Black sounding name is at the top of the cover letter. Or, because they have a record, they’re ineligible to be hired-even though we know for a fact that White guys w/records still seem to get jobs. Hey look, the reality is that its human nature to feel more comfortable among your own kind, put that with the inherent competition that arises among males and the political pressures to hire “Women & Minorities” and it kinda makes sense to hire Black Women and at best, do a bit of window dressing when it comes to hiring Black Men.

    Many Brothas see all of this, and say, what’s the point of going to school for all those years, go in hock for it, only to end right back up the block with the rest of the homies? Its something the NAACP crown doesn’t wanna hear, but one of the reasons why there are so few Brothas in college is because many of them don’t see any benefit in it, if by benefit means, being able to actually get a job.

    Then there’s another ugly truth many Black folk, especially the more middle class among us, don’t wanna face-alot of Black Men simply aren’t academically inclined, and are better suited to the trades. But since the trades are literally on life support these days, its ironically easier to get said Brotha into college than into one of the trade unions.

    Simply put, as Dave Simon said, Black Men are by and large, obsolete to and in the American economy. Their heyday was in the post-War years, up until about the late 70s-early 80s, as the last of big manufacturing was leaving the cities, first for a “layover” in the burbs, and during the merger-drenched 80s and 90s, big manufacturing’s final destination to places like Mexico and China.

    Ok, so why is the out of wedlock birthrate so high among Blacks then? A very good question. And after giving it some thought, I think I have a less than politically correct answer. And that’s this:

    Its because, for all the economic, political and social pressures that are real for Black folk, they’re still Human-and what could be more Human than to fuck, to love, to replicate oneself? Sure, we can fingerwag about marriage and responsibility and family formation till we’re all blue in the face; but at the end of the day those urges are primal, are strong, and I suspect many African Americans know deep down, that it may be the closest thing they may ever come to having that sense of family, that sense of legacy. No, its not the best or most rational choice. But then, who said these urges and human needs were rational?

    So, you can see Dreamer, why its so hard for Black Men and Women to get together and stay together; I argue that a Black couple has to be among the toughest people the world has ever seen, because they have damn near everything working against them, and still they choose to love.

    And that’s a tough thing to do, even for the best of us.

    The Obsidian

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  408. D. Alexander what’s your definition of a ‘Beta male’ and how is this different from an Omega male?

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  409. I once worked with a Herb whose GF proposed to him.

    He actually wore his engagement ring to the office. True story.

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  410. on June 11, 2009 at 8:17 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    doug1

    Herbs are about non violence, being in touch with their feminine side, doing at LEAST half the housework regardless of how many more hours they MAY do at money work, not being disrespectful to women ever, believing that women are really the better gender in every way and more equal than men, etc.

    Yikes.

    Almost an EXACT overlap with the following description of men who become victims of parental alienation syndrome (PAS):
    The “typical” father that is targeted for PAS generally has the following characteristics: he avoids conflict , honors women, respects children and puts their perceived “best interest” above his own, loses in Family Court (due to the gender biased family court system in most states) and he loses contact with his children because he was too “nice” and conciliatory and never thought it could happen to him… until it was too late.
    — It’s Father’s Day and All I Want is to See My Children!
    By Karen Wagner, Executive Director, National Parents Rights Association

    Scary.

    Dog eat dog.
    You choose whether to be the subject or the object.

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  411. on June 11, 2009 at 9:25 am Tupac Chopra

    Gil:

    D. Alexander what’s your definition of a ‘Beta male’ and how is this different from an Omega male?

    DA conflates betas and omegas in order to drag everyone else down to his level.

    Like


  412. D. Alexander what’s your definition of a ‘Beta male’ and how is this different from an Omega male?

    Sub-human males tend to be unable to secure any women at all. Beta males can secure women, but these women have no true romantic or sexual attraction toward these men. Beta males are merely useful for co-signing for a mortgage, hugs, and helping to raise the secret offspring of an alpha. With enough money, some sub-humans may cross into beta status, but only with the worst women.

    In contrast, only alphas can secure true romantic and sexual interest from women. Some betas can become de facto alphas by learning game, but remains to be seen if such game immediately transfers over to long-term relationships for these game-learning men.

    Like


  413. [email protected]
    “DA conflates betas and omegas in order to drag everyone else down to his level.”

    Yep.
    I just stuffed the overly long reply I was typing out to DA out of the realization that it would do no damn good.

    He’s like Gollum in lord of the rings chanting “my shiny precious…” while dragging everyone down into a swamp of self loathing.

    They should take his sweat, distill it, and use it as a sedative for dangerously hyperactive children. Shock the little kiddies into numb passivit.

    DA, dude, criticism of you is well earned and justified due to the realization that your worldview is utterly full of shit.

    No offense.

    I once held a similar worldview as yours. Any evidence to the contrary I explained away. Over and over again.

    I actually broke several girls’ hearts in my inability to honor their affections for me. There are still women, former friends, who are bitter over this, one used to just cross the streets every time she saw me around town to avoid cussing me out. This girl tried everything she could, managed to just coerce a kiss on the cheek out of me, after months, then wrote me several love letters, stalked me around campus, and finally just threw her hands up in the air wondering if I was actually gay. I think I actually fucked up her later relationships, from what I heard her self esteem sank and she put on quite a few pounds. Maybe 2 years of trying to get me to pay attention to her burnt her out..

    From the age of, eh, 19 – 22 I had psyched myself out into believing that something was wrong with this girl because she actually liked me. I get the feeling she started to agree. Anyway that’s just one example.

    A number of girls used to have crushes on me. and I couldn’t understand it. Why?

    After all I was chubby, unlovable, wore glasses, depressed, and anyone who liked me – I thought – had to be insane. I managed to ask out the love of my teenage life to the prom, because everyone in my social circle kept pressuring me to do it. It shames me to this day to reflect on how mopey and depressed I was, how I ruined her evening, and a couple of my close friends much latter confessed to me that they overheard her complaining that I didn’t make a move on her to multiple friends.

    I was increduluous. I mean, She actually wanted to sleep with me? Unlovable me? I could have had the one girl in high school I would have literally sawed off my hand for, who actually said yes when I invited her to the prom, and I blew that chance? My heart still races when I think about her, to this day. This was a woman I would have pawned the entire world off for, and I manage to convince myself that she just went to the prom with me out of pity. Then to have my friends mention to me that she was angry I didn’t fuck her?

    That rocked my worldview a bit. Put a ding in my armor, though I later welded back that David Alexander like armor.
    In fairness the girl did insist on us going to dinner with her ex, and her ex’s date. That was awkward and left me in a funk. But face it, I blew her entire evening, and mine, out of myopic imaturity and the inability to see things as they really were. This still haunts me.

    It took years of many women in my life who actually really did like me, a lot, a few of which I emotionally hurt badly because of my selfish, stupid, insistance on seeing myself as the most passive beta dog whelp spineless male thing.

    Then there were the girls who loved me as a platonic boy-pet who would listen to them, brush their hair, keep them company and comfort them when their asshole boyfriends hurt them. Some of them, even, gave me chances to get in their pants. And I either missed them or rationalized it away. Basically at some point many became convinced that I was secretly gay.

    At a certain point I woke up, realized that I was living an inauthentic life, and decided that my previous opinion of myself and the world was utterly full of shit.

    And it was.

    And so is yours David. Get out, stop bitching about being bad at everything you do. You have passions, like photography. Cultivate them and stop being a mediocre man. It makes others grit their teeth, like watching a train plow into a baby stroller..

    Like


  414. Just to followup on Kamal’s point wrt DA…

    Dave approaches this thing as if he’s the only Man in the world who’s been what he’s going through. Not only is such a notion not true, its, as you’ve said Kamal, bullshit.

    If Dave Alex were as happy as he claims, *he would not be here*. He would simply go on and live his life in the manner he constantly talks about. It doesn’t take Dr. Phil to see that Dave is miserable, and as it loves company, he is intent on making others miserable as well.

    Only it doesn’t work. Guys who have real disabilities and problems in this world, like Eurosabra, soldier on and by dint of sheer determination, manage to find love, or at the very least some very nice female company. In fact, just knowing they are guys like Eurosabra out there, would be enough to shut me up if I were Dave Alex. But of course, he has a rationalization for that, too.

    Anyone who calls themsef “sub-human” has real problems. And unlike Kamal, who was in his late teens and going through this phase, Dave is staring down 30 in a few short years from now. There’s simply no excuse for him to act this way.

    Everyone in this forum has gone out of their way to help Dave Alex, and he has repaid the good will of others with with one of the worst of human traits-ungratefullness. I would have no problem if Dave had actually gone out and tried the many suggestions given to him, and failed. There is no shame in trying and failing, the only real shame is in failing to try at all.

    The reason Dave is here, is to bring down the entire energy of this forum. He brings nothing good to it. He is miserable and is determined to spread his pain to others. That’s not sub-human. That’s immature, and ultimately, sad.

    Because Roissy doesn’t believe in banning people, Dave will simply continue to come here and do his best to pull down the energy of this venue, despite the many good faith efforts of other Men to help him. In fact, one of the reasons I decided to remain in this forum was because of Roissy’s reaching out to Dave Alex. For all the many bad things said about the Man, R won me over by trying to assist a Man in one of the most important areas of any Man’s life. And like everyone else, Dave repays this Man by coming into the living room of his house, dropping his drawers, and taking a big, stinky, runny shit right on the carpet, then claiming he can’t help himself.

    I’ve grown past pity or empathy for now to contempt. Because no matter what a Man’s problems, one would think a Man at least has enough dignity to keep him doing the things Dave does every single day here. He doesn’t respect any of his. He doesn’t respect Roissy. And he doesn’t respect the so-called “non-date” ladies in his life either. In fact, he holds them, and virtually all Women, in a kind of contempt. Women, having a keen nose for these kinds of things, pickup on this and leave Dave alone.

    It will be interesting to see Dave Alex ten years from now. He is on a collision course with something bad.

    O

    Like


  415. [email protected]
    Hell yeah.

    One other note.
    “Anyone who calls themsef “sub-human” has real problems. And unlike Kamal, who was in his late teens and going through this phase, Dave is staring down 30 in a few short years from now. There’s simply no excuse for him to act this way.”

    It was actually a long drawn out process for me. It started in my late teens but dragged on for almost a decade.. really I was pushing 30 when I finally, really, got my head out of the sand.

    Prior to that I’d have small personal victories here and there, little bits of sun peeping out from between the clouds, but then just slid back into a swamp of low self esteem and confidence. I didn’t really start fully blooming until i hit 27, that was a half painful, half magical year, and then by the time I hit 29 I was like “this shit is absurd. Cut it out.”

    And I did.
    Then my Dad died, and that was the last chain, having to deal with that aged me a good 10 years, in the span of 2.

    I think DA’s a late bloomer, some of us are.
    I think DA will look back at this forum in 10 years and laugh his fool head off.

    Remains to be seen though..

    Like


  416. Kamal,
    Like you, I also lost my dad, and is something Dave doesn’t have an excuse for. Nor do I envision you deliberately participating in a venue like this doing the things Dave does. I certainly didn’t.

    And like you and maybe Dave, I too was a late bloomer. Being a short guy, I never even went to the prom because all the girls I asked turned me down on the basis that I was too short. I thought I wasn’t good looking, too. And, as I got older, going out into the working world, I got shotdown by quite a few gals who deemed I wasn’t good enough for them because I was a prole. And that’s not even scratching the surface.

    For every thing Dave Alex can bring up or mention, I can come back w/a corresponding story from my own life. And like Dave, I had Men in my life, many of the considerably older than me, who did their level best to help me on the path. And like Dave I too was angry at the world for my perceived raw deal life dealt me. The only difference betwen Dave and myself, is at least I externalized my angst and anger.

    So, things didn’t really turn around for me until well into my 20s, in fits and starts. I had much to learn about Women, and by the time my father left this world, 11 years ago, I finally began to get it.

    Kamal, I’m simply tired. Tired of listening to Dave’s mopings. Tired of seeing him on here w/absolutely nothing good to say about the purpose of this forum. Tired of seeing him destroy himself. Tired of seeing his know-it-all so-called rational reasons, answers and excuses as to why its better for him, and others, not to do anything better with their lives. Just…tired.

    When I frst ran into the Seduction community, I was fortunate to run into a few good guys locally who turned me onto some things that were happening in the area. As a result I got to attend a few meetings and connect w/some of these guys. I can personally tell Dave Alex that there are Men who would give their right arm to get what Dave has gotten for free. I’m simply tired of Dave Alex.

    And I do not think I am alone.
    I wish him well, but I also wish he’d go. If he has any shred of decency, respect for the many here, or himself, if he has any dignity as a Man, he would go on his way.

    O

    Like


  417. What am I?

    I’m full-on alpha when I’m single: I can get any girl I want, it doesn’t matter if she’s single or even straight.
    But the second I get a girl in the sack (always on first date), I turn into Herb, move in, play white knight, etc. for about 6 months. Then I start getting pissy, withdrawn, etc. until the girl dumps me or cheats on me and I dump her, acting surprised and hurt but really feeling relieved.

    I’m sure there’s a category for my type.

    Like


  418. on June 11, 2009 at 7:02 pm Virginia Gentleman

    Kamal:

    I was increduluous. I mean, She actually wanted to sleep with me? Unlovable me? I could have had the one girl in high school I would have literally sawed off my hand for, who actually said yes when I invited her to the prom, and I blew that chance? My heart still races when I think about her, to this day. This was a woman I would have pawned the entire world off for, and I manage to convince myself that she just went to the prom with me out of pity.

    An interesting story, so much more because it makes me wonder about the debacle with Miss Scientist referred to earlier. (I go back to this one not so much out of one-itis, but rather because it was so spectacular a failure of what seemed like a sure shot. Others over the ensuing years have essentially fizzled out on my end, kind of like those early NASA launches where nothing happens, or have died off for reasons that are now known and understood. This one, on the other hand, was like the last Challenger mission: Great launch, looks good so far, and boom, obviously a major malfunction.

    Taking your story and the Thirteenth Commandment together, it makes me wonder if I should have aggressively pursued the physical option. Thinking back over it, I limited my actions in that area for two major reasons, namely Be a Gentleman and “What Consequences if Something Goes Wrong?” Take my inaction and add it to a behavioral change (from the mean one on my athletic team to hesitant and tentative) and I think I’ve got the best explanation yet as to why that particular effort failed.

    If I don’t get anything else out of Roissyism, this one recognition will be valuable in closing the biggest cold case I’ve got in the personal file. It is, of course, useful information.

    Like


  419. italics?

    Like


  420. Question for Wexler: when’s the last time you had some pussy? – Obsidian

    I stated clearly enough where I considered myself in the spectrum. But, why not?, too long. Any other obvious things you would like to point to? It’s all in fun, it’s not like there’re anger issues or anything, haha.

    And as for anger issues, Mr “Dexler”: Indeed, a brilliant observation. How about I complain about some things, and you can point out that I’m complaining about some things. First rate work, old man, good job.

    Back to Obsidian: The criticism I made re the unreflective tone of some of the posters here is valid. Decide whether it applies to yourself. Your posts in their abundance are beta. If you can’t say more with less, you are failing. Perhaps that failure, if reflected upon (and that’s the big if), will be worth something to you.

    Like


  421. You say this as is if finding examples of failure is hard.

    You could look at any PUA website for examples (masquerading as “calls for advice”). Or you could watch the media in general, and the spineless, gelletin mass they claim to be a man. Or just look around in any social setting or club. Shit, clubs leak male failure all over the fucking floor.

    Those of us who consider ourselves in the Beta spectrum when it comes to women (like myself, as of now, or I suspect, you) shouldn’t need to hear more failure.

    We can’t start our own engines. We need someone to show us how to look under the hood, and rev that motherfucker up.

    And even if the accounts are exaggerated, so what? It’s the example, and not the details, that are important.

    I’m down for a happy ending. – Arrakis

    You make a point, and I agree, and that is why I am here. My criticism of the exaggerated accounts is probably motivated by unmagnanimous sentiment; it is certainly beta. On the other hand, the criticism is deserved. “Swooping fly girls” for instance. This language is not right. It’s moronic. Someone who wanted to be hip might have said this, like, 15 years ago. Yet we’re supposed to think this is some PUA to be looked to for advice. Please. (Or perhaps there is the essence of it. Which would be, you don’t actually have to be talented or whatever, you just have to act as if you are, silly girls don’t know the difference. It’s a good lesson, albeit bitter.)

    Like


  422. How many view that classic video of Triumph the Wonder Dog at the Star Wars movie line? Gawd, that was so funny to watch again! How many Omega males were in that video? Perhaps a particular warning to D. Alexander that the door that goes from Beta to Omega in a one-way door? Once you go Omega, you stuffed? At least a down&out Beta has a chance for change. Who knows maybe he’ll feel he’ll be an Alpha in an Omega convention just as someone could go to a midget convention to feel tall even though they are a tad under the average height.

    Like


  423. The phrase “Swooping fly girls”

    is clearly used in an ironic manner, by MPM, The G Manifesto, and this certainly seems the case when the phrase is thrown around by others.

    Indeed a good deal of Roissy’s blog simply drips with irony and sarcasm, which forms a certain subtext that many people find difficult to pick up on.

    Like


  424. anyone who liked me – I thought – had to be insane

    Of course, and whenever a girl may possibly float the idea of being interested in you, it makes nearly no sense. Given the other advantages in other men, you’d have to presume that she has a seriously flaw that prevents her from hooking up with somebody better, and she’s desperate enough that you’ll do which reinforces the issue. Hell, I recently found out that an old classmate (white, thin, 6, no nails) from elementary and high school had a crush on me and wanted to have sex with me back then, I was rather shocked, and pretty much presumed mental illness on her part. Even given the criticism of me by the other men and women of this group, and the comments of Wellesley Queen and the Mistress, it really does lead one to challenge the entire concept of romantic interest in somebody like me. Even with some positive traits, there isn’t a shortage of better men than me out there in the world. Despite the recession, there are still plenty of college educated beta males who make more than me in nice, socially approved white collar jobs, and come with a bit more normalcy and sense of fun.

    It took years of many women in my life who actually really did like me, a lot, a few of which I emotionally hurt badly because of my selfish, stupid, insistance on seeing myself as the most passive beta dog whelp spineless male thing.

    That reminds me of how I allegedly made non-date cry by not attending her little birthday gathering last year. Mind you, I was somewhat tired, and sitting in her backyard with a bunch of prole suburban whites didn’t seem like my idea of fun, so I bailed on her despite her and her friend begging me to come. That was the concrete evidence that put to rest denials on my part that she was romantically interested.

    Of course, I still look at the longer picture, and there’s a part of me that feels that whatever relationships would have developed would have eventually failed with her being bitter and angry or sad. Regardless, there would have been heartbreak and depression, but by preventing the relationship from occurring, we don’t waste time or money, and she’s free to move on and find somebody better (read: alpha) that can make her happy or provide great sex. So, I don’t look at it from the context of somebody who hurts women, but somebody who is nice enough to stay away and not bother women.

    Some of them, even, gave me chances to get in their pants.

    Non-date tried that on several occasions, but I obviously didn’t make use of the opportunity. I didn’t feel like disappointing her with lack-luster performance, and I had some new porn waiting for me at home. Plus, admittedly, at the time, the whole thing came across as a joke. If she really wanted to have sex with me, the theory was that she’d just make her move as the Mistress did.

    As for being a platonic boy-pet, it actually isn’t half bad. You get some attention, and somebody to talk about your day with, and you have a dining partner for those times you want to go eat at a chain restaurant. Who wants to be the loser who walks into Applebees or TGI Fridays alone and watches the happy people?

    And he doesn’t respect the so-called “non-date” ladies in his life either.

    The $64,000 that I’ve yet to answer, would I be friends with non-date if I still had Wellesley Queen? I still can answer this question in an honest and rational manner…

    Like


  425. I should add that I can only confirm four girls having romantic interest me. The rest is merely specious reasoning on my part…

    Like


  426. Hey David Alexander – here’s some dating advice you would enjoying reading

    Like


  427. “normalcy” – D. Alexander.

    Uh-oh! ‘Normalcy’ the correct word over ‘normality’ which isn’t supposed to be a word. You probably know the difference between ‘healthy’ and ‘healthful’ and when ‘healthy’ is being misused when it should be ‘healthful’. Your transition to Omega Side can’t be too far away. Release your non-anger and your journey will be complete.
    }>:)

    Like


  428. [email protected]
    “..Given the other advantages in other men, you’d have to presume that she has a seriously flaw that prevents her from hooking up with somebody better, and she’s desperate enough that you’ll do which reinforces the issue..”

    Yeah well, that sentiment was close to mine previously, but that was before I realized that in reality.. I’m actually pretty fucking awesome.

    This is a realization many other men have had. Seriously, I have my faults and flaws. They are rather gaping and wide. But I have my distinct areas of perfection. And the older I get, the more I contemplate them, the more they simply astound me. After all, sure, there are men who are superior to me in many areas, whilst others are inferior to me in some areas, but all in all I had advantages that I wasn’t even aware of.

    Not just limited to my passions, my hobbies, my thoughts, my heart and soul, and frankly my cock.

    And it is a very good cock, from what I’ve heard from the friends of women I once dated. Albeit, nowadays, a refined and selective one which does want to be dined first. I know my ex’s girl friends tell the truth because, frankly, it just makes sense.

    But knowing how to work my magical member is only one of many aspects of my value. I am erudite. Urbane. Cultivated. Highly intelligent. I am a gentleman who, these things notwithstanding, also knows when to pull a girl’s hair and spank her while riding her slowly and deeply. These things are simply mere, how shall I put it, traces of the deeper awesomeness lying deep inside of me, the deeper primal awesomeness that I have discovered as a discrete being standing alone in the swirling forces of life.

    All men go through a season of regret. But how many can transmute that regret into joy? Sure. I admit that in many ways, I’m a bit of a schmuck, a putz, a dork. But in so many more ways I am a deeply interesting guy, I’ve accidently lived a life with interesting adventures, I have acquired knowledge of things veiled from the vast majority of humanity, and I’m simply very… grateful to God most high that I am an awesome motherfucker. In a metaphorical sense. Other people’s mothers, in any case.

    I am now, therefore, of the distinct opinion that any woman does not want to cross multiple state lines for a night on the town, and then a pleasant evening at my place, has to – I presume – have a serious flaw preventing her from hooking up with Moi, a flaw driving her into the arms of a man not quite as groovy hip and chill as I am. Therefore she is to be tragically regarded as someone else’s problem.

    Oddly the older I get, the more I wake up, cognizant of these facts, etched in stone, in the ontological foundations of the universe itself. The more this occurs the more pretty little things just seem to put themselves in my path. Even the ones who flake on me, as I increasingly pleasantly notice, tend to try to get back in my graces. In particular when I am seen taking walks with others. Therefore it becomes a matter of filtering, selecting, and refining.

    My life is evolving into something, either tragedy or comedy or simple refined drama. Perhaps a mix of all. I do not know exactly what it is, but my world expands with every day, my wisdom deepens, my cup runnith over with life’s delicious sweet juices, the very marrow of the world seems increasingly squeezed out before me.

    Finding the secret of your being, dude, is what you need to do. Digging your fears out of your soul, examining them for what they are and seeing them as, well, empty wraiths. This you must do, lest your panty-wringing drive tupac, obsidian, and others here who engage you into massive puking fests ending in spasmodic dry heaves in utter disgust over the gray cloud of self loathing and self contempt you playfully float in.

    Like, just get a life man. You actually have one, but you are not content in it no matter how much you may argue to the contrary. Your posts question it constantly, it is an edifice requiring significant mental energy to maintain.

    As for determinism, bend it over a park bench and fuck it like a man.
    Fuck determinism.
    All I care about is that my destiny is mine, my gifts are mine, I am a unique man, as we all are. Whatever defines the aggregate does not define me, I will live life on terms that I freely choose, and heaven help the man who tries to interfere with my destiny.

    The masses of people in every age, every clime, every race, and every nation, are simply seething potentiality unexpressed. Qualitative mass. Human beings with hopes and fears, loves and hates, dreams usually, however, unlived. Because they choose to remain aggregate pebbles in the group: the good, the bad, the beautiful, and the ugly.

    But the man who rises up from a mass aggregate; no matter what his formal education is, his background, his class, in every age there are men who decide to become masters of themselves. What defines others, they choose not to allow to define themselves. They discover their talents and virtues, they discover their faults and weaknesses, they strengthen what they can strengthen, and ride life like a bitch in head instead of being ridden by her.

    It’s a choice, but like, dude, stop being all limp about it. It’s kind of painful to watch. Like an amusing but badly scripted episode of south park.

    Just grab your nuts, and go out into the world, and seek life. Change your routine, do, act, and stop reacting. Make your passions work for you, your photography, discover a new world, explore it, and if it STILL is not suiting to who you really are, just move on to something else..

    Like


  429. Notice that the term “herb” applies to Japanese men. It’s no wonder that Japanese women fantasize about being anal raped by Korean and/or black men. A Korean man (not those floppy haired pussies on TV) would eat your so-called alpha ass for breakfast.

    Like


  430. Kamal,
    Wrt DA, very well put.

    Word.

    O

    Like


  431. on June 12, 2009 at 1:09 pm Tupac Chopra

    That link Gig put up a couple comments back has a trojan in it.

    Like


  432. so roissy should exclude the comment. anyone reading the post will see the link waaay before they reach Tupac’s comment

    Like


  433. And it is a very good cock

    Hint: You may be an alpha. It’s probably backed up by the fact that you may not have the beta penalty brake that prevents most beta males from pulling hair and spanking even if requested by the woman…

    But knowing how to work my magical member is only one of many aspects of my value. I am erudite. Urbane. Cultivated. Highly intelligent.

    Again, another difference between you and me. I am none of things listed. Maybe to non-date and other proles, I am, but in the real world of actual smart pretty people, I am far away from being in that realm of the true intellectual, and I no longer have the energy to even chase such a dream.

    Like, just get a life man. You actually have one, but you are not content in it

    Actually, home-work-home isn’t too bad if you have few bills and you avoid people who are better than you. Sprinkle in a periodic night out with a female friend, lots of opportunities for sleep, lots of days off, and ample time for masturbation and replying to blogs, and it can be rather fun. Add in the ability to save some money to plan for potential trips to other locales or buy stuff, and it can be enjoyable. In contrast, home-work-hospital-home in contrast tends to be a drain even on the marginal hobbies and work, especially since I have to pick up the errands of the other person who is sitting in the hospital.

    Finding the secret of your being, dude, is what you need to do.

    I did find him. He posts here on a daily basis.

    Like


  434. on June 12, 2009 at 4:30 pm David's Younger Brother

    Since David left this sad site on my laptop, I feel forced to reply…

    1) David is really sad because he didn’t graduate on time four years ago, and he lives in this prison of the mind where he feels that he can’t be around the kinds of people he thinks he wants to be around because he doesn’t have the kick ass job or college degree. He’ll never be happy since he keeps chasing a dream track that never existed.

    2) David also feels guilty that since he doesn’t have a degree, he can’t help out our parents in paying the mortgage or the bills since he can’t get a good job.

    3) I tell David to exercise, but he always says that he’s tired. Of course, like an idiot, he wakes me up while he’s masturbating at 5 AM when he has to wake up at 9 or 10 AM. It’s inconsiderate since I wake up early to go to school.

    Like


  435. alright, for this weekend, everyone be sure to dress properly when hanging out on 14th street and leave the murses at home. Photos will be taken, so, offensive betas, beware.

    Like


  436. Indeed a good deal of Roissy’s blog simply drips with irony and sarcasm, which forms a certain subtext that many people find difficult to pick up on. – Kamal S.

    Is that phrase being used ironically? Okay …

    I may be missing some of the irony here, fair enough.

    Like


  437. That phrase being “swooping fly girls”. If one were looking for a phrase to be obnoxious with, yeah there it is. Haha on the irony.

    Like


  438. Actually I should thank you (all), for the advice. Not like I got laid or anything, but at least did not leave this last encounter with the tail between the legs. Pressed up against, no pull-away; left first, established distance behind in the dominant position. Next time [if …] we meet, I’ll be the mysterious non-beta.

    Like


  439. And Mr Obsidian if I was a little hard on you, well you deserved it, and I do read some of your comments, so you can’t be all bad.

    Like


  440. busco a carla arpagaus en suiza por fabor contactame siemprtenaz @msn.com………………………..

    Like


  441. on June 20, 2009 at 9:05 am Gunslingergregi

    Nice manifesto Kamal!

    Like


  442. on June 20, 2009 at 9:13 am Gunslingergregi

    So yea I am on vacation and I built a 8 foot bench and painted that bad boy. So now I have a lasting thing at the house I built with my own hands. The wife is like you understand everything. Kind of like when we went to play golf for the first time. She is like you want to understand everything. I think that is part of life. To develop skills. I fixed stuff around the house. I felt like yea shit I want to actually build a house with my two hands. Cool feeling building something you know will last a while. Plus I always wanted a resteraunt now I can probably build one cheap looking at material costs. It will probably cost me 40 bucks a table in materials but they will be supersolid construction. Cost 3 dollars for a 4 x 10. Wild stuff. Dad always tried to get me to build stuff. I think I have hit an age where it would bring some serious satisfaction to build my own furniture and house. Plus building furniture out of real wood is cheaper than buying the fake glued wood crap.

    Like


  443. […] Idiocy, Sexuality In a follow-up post, the Con-man revealed that he is not just a beta, but a white-knighting herb: I’ve found that these guys don’t know what to do when you crash their game by […]

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  444. […] Scrawny, unathletic herb with insufficient upper body strength to throw a shoe across a room. …the man yelled: […]

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  445. […] Was ist der Unterschied zwischen einem Beta und einem Herb? […]

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  446. […] Leave a Comment Tags: Ellen Stratton, Jill Taylor, Playmate 1. Männer sind ziemlich wertlos: “An average man is incomparably sexually worthless even compared to an obese woman with […]

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  447. […] syndrome.  As some women can attest, nice guys are seldom nice, but passive aggressive weenies who label themselves as feminists and spew what they think women want to hear in an attempt to win their….  Ultimately this fails; these supposedly nice guys ironically blame women for their solitude, but […]

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