A Valid Criticism Of The Mystery Method?

The Shocker writes:

one of the common criticisms with the Mystery Method is that it takes an adversarial approach to game- like two lawyers in a courtroom. You’re trying to come up with rebuttals based on what she says and what she does. It’s good for beginners since they can detach their identity from their performance (and suffer no ego consequences when they fail), but it’s really not that great of an approach to social interaction overall. Rock solid inner game always wins because you aren’t making assumptions about your target, you’re more agile and dynamic since it’s authentic, and ultimately is the image you’re trying to impress through Mystery’s scripts anyways. Women can tell the difference. [Ed: More precisely, women can *feel* the difference between bad game and good game.]

Chateau Heartiste is popular with inner-game types because it looks at the rules of attraction from a very high level. We’re not really looking for techniques here because we don’t need them – just a deeper understanding of the laws and strategies at play. It’s the difference between practicing chess openings from a book versus reading about game theory. Yale vs ITT Tech.

All seduction is, in a sense, adversarial. It has to be, considering that men’s and women’s reproductive goals are at odds. But it is the adversarial nature of courtship that electrifies women’s libidos. A budding seduction that lacks this tension will wither on the vine. It’s evolutionarily preordained that women will swoon for sharply charged flirty exchanges, and crumple into boredom under an onslaught of dull agreeableness.

That said, it’s true that game greenhorns too easily fall into a lawyerly pattern of badgering the witness and courtroom objections. This isn’t a fault of the specific game tactics so much as it is a problem of overthinking one’s next move at the expense of free-form conversational adaptability. Men who first take on the learning of game tend to think in rigid blocks of discrete information — must do this now, then follow up with this — instead of the better mode of thinking in fluid cascades of themes: i’ll do this, unless this other move is better. What results from thinking like the former is a man who fumbles when a woman, for example, shit tests at the “wrong” time, and he flails in his misguided effort to steer the conversation back to where he was in control.

For the beginner, it’s almost more effective to think actively about what *not to do*, than what to do. Avoiding common beta pitfalls will get you farther as a newbie than trying to perfectly apply all the little details of the Attraction-Comfort-Seduction sequence to targets of interest. As you progress, you can start to think more in terms of tightening your game instead of avoiding anti-game missteps, because at that stage you should have enough experience with women under your belt (heh) that you can, one, predict with uncanny accuracy how a woman will react to a given scenario and, two, shift on the fly.

Mystery did the world a service by breaking down the trajectory of a successful seduction and female attraction mechanisms into their component parts. The nature of making a (relatively) complex subject understandable for the masses naturally ensures that imitators and acolytes will miss the nuance. Nuance comes with practice, so don’t sweat it at first. The Mystery Method blueprint is just that — a blueprint around which to erect a work of pickup art. Don’t try to jam every preposition or unexpected riposte into its framework. Exigency happens.





Comments


  1. on August 17, 2011 at 3:45 pm Ari Hinkelberger

    I don’t think Mystery gets enough credit personally. He really has cracked the code of social dynamics. What’s funny is that he learned this code trying to get people to buy his magic tricks, not trying to score pussy.

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    • on August 18, 2011 at 3:29 am Reactionary_Konkvistador

      Yeah; I know what you mean. People like to sometimes make noises about how Mysteries old stuff is obsolete… hogwash, his model is solid, yes the canned routines aren’t as useful as they where, but the canned routines shouldn’t be the basis of your game anyway! Who still uses those after a few of the early approaches?

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  2. I am on Chapter 3 of The Mystery Method, and it is clear to me that this man has absolutely revolutionized the dating game for men. God, how my life would have been different had I had this book when I was 18 rather than 50.

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  3. on August 17, 2011 at 4:02 pm (r)Evoluzione

    Learning the flow is almost like learning to ski or snowboard well, dance, or most appropriately, practice the martial arts, for as you said, seduction is adversarial. The bedroom arts are a form of sensualistic jiu-jitsu. Just like strong grapplers, strong seducers develop an almost kinaesthetic sense of movement and action. The adversarial nature becomes a form of spirited play, and as such forms automatic responses, whip-quick functions of the hindbrain.

    Coordinated parry-thrust-attack movements from the limbic and cerebellar centers of the brain become second nature. Integration of this sort takes takes two things–full saturation of red-pill evolutionary psychobiology and frame-mastery, both found here, and, most importantly…… practice.

    With the right frame and lots of practice, the cocky-funny frame, the aloof amused mastery frame, all become automatic and fully integrated into one’s being. Bruce Lee said all martial arts forms exist to practiced, assimilated, and forgotten. I wouldn’t go so far as to call Mystery the Bruce Lee of his art, he has at least given us a basic kata form to follow, integrate, and ultimately forget.

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  4. Yeah, I’ve been living this post. I get it, I got it, I went through the phase where I was trying and observing all the techniques and gimmicks, and I got what I need out of it. These days I do plenty of things that run against not only game technique but also often understood principle. Once I figured this out–that adverserial feelings along these longs kill it, for me and her–I just excised whatever contributed to it. If that seemed to be superficially “good game,” so much the worse for game.

    I don’t think Mystery gets enough credit personally.

    Maybe not in general, because of all the abuse over fuzzy hats and whatnot. But certainly Chateau writers and readers are able to look beneath the fur and recognize that, as painful or ironic or unlikely as it may be, Mystery made a major breakthrough in the knowledge and applied experience of humankind.

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  5. Mystery is a freakin genius and his book is a revolution in itself, but the mystery method has to be completed with something else. I studied game alone but on the forums, many people who rely exclusively on the MM crash and burn because they lack something. It can be a weak inner game, a lack of situational awareness…
    Direct game and day game are also superficially dealt with in the MM.
    The perfect combo for a game beginner would be: MM+ Savoy’s Magic bullets+Heartiste.

    [Heartiste: *preen*]

    Ross Jeffries, De Angelo, Gunwitch are fine… but reading too much about game can lead to creative avoidance. I’ve been stuck there for 2 years before hitting the scene.

    [It’s been a while since I browsed magic bullets. I’ll have to pick that up again. And Deangelo has some great cocky lines that are well worth memorizing.]

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    • To Mystery’s defense, he insists in his book that betas (what he calls AFCs) need to learn from experience. Actually IIRC, in every chapter he emphasizes the importance of going out and engaging girls without worrying about rejection.
      And he’s right, after a while, being rejected becomes equivalent to losing a life in mario world.

      [Heartiste: Yeah, Mystery was never a quck fix kind of guy, like so many of his detractors paint him. (Which is easy to do when your e-book has colorful flowcharts of pickup strategies and you wear fuzzy hats.) He’s always stressed the importance of field experience.]

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      • Guys, if you haven’t gotten the Revelations materials from Venusian Arts, you are really missing out. The microcalibration sequence is really, really powerful stuff.

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  6. H, The reason why MM is not as good is that Mystery has literally like 50 hours of routines in memorized in his head that he has practiced dozens of times so he always has something when gaming a woman. The average guy doesn’t have the time to invest all those years into getting better at women.

    [Heartiste: Good point. For all the sneering leveled at routines, having a huge repertoire memorized can only help in the pursuit of pussy.]

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  7. As good as Mystery Method is, the fact is you can only learn so much from reading books and blogs without becoming a complete keyboard jockey. Eventually betas got to sack up and talk to girls and get good that way.

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  8. on August 17, 2011 at 4:26 pm Ari Hinkelberger

    You should do a post on canned openers. I think you did one talking about how you lead out of the gate with a neg, but some post on opening i think would compliment the site well. Savoy really hammers home that you need a canned opener and that wining it won’t work. I think Roosh talks about how we concentrate way too much on the opener too. Interesting topic. Mystery doesn’t do a great job talking about it – just provides it as a given.

    [Heartiste: There are some posts on canned openers in the archives, but I think new ones are overdue. I’ll have to field test a bunch and get back to you.]

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  9. on August 17, 2011 at 4:29 pm Rollo Tomassi

    People tend to forget what the ‘A’ stands for in PUA – “artist”. It’s called the Art of seduction for a reason; it requires creativity, improvisation and adaptation appropriate to varying circumstances and environments.

    Critics of Game tend to focus solely on the skills, scripts and techniques, but fail to grasp that they are simply tools of the artist. When the art sucks, it’s not the brush that gets blamed, it’s the lack of understanding or inspiration of the artist. If all you have is a hammer, all your challenges tend to look like nails. Applying a Neg (because it’s all you know) when C&F is more appropriate is an artistic misstep. Using the same Game on Goth club girl that you would on a more prim sorority girl is likewise bad art.

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    • on August 18, 2011 at 12:42 am Obstinance Works

      And balls. You have to be a real man to do this. But doing difficult things makes you a man, so forcing yourself to talk to hot girls who will probably shoot you down 9/10 times helps.

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  10. Notice that Shocker tries to dis Mystery without owning it.

    “One of the common criticisms” allows him to weasel out of any blame if defenders of Mystery appear to confront him. It enables the weasel defense of “I’m just reporting what others are saying”. He could have taken responsibility for his criticism by starting, “What is wrong with Mystery’s method is….”, but that would require ownership of the criticism. Reason alone to discount his comments.

    Mystery is a groundbreaking genius in PU; no further proof is needed than the constant attacks by lesser men.

    [Heartiste: Point taken, but to give him his due, I have heard this specific criticism of MM from various quarters. I personally don’t think there’s so much to the criticism that it warrants discrediting Mystery, but it does animate a lot of doubters.]

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    • What? This isn’t Wikipedia. It is, in fact, a common criticism, or at least one I’ve read in a few other places. It’s not his original idea and he’s acknowledged that. Not sure what your problem is.

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    • “Reason alone to discount his comments.”

      No, the sole reason to discount statements is their content, as opposed to the perceived personal defects of the person who made them. That is, if you are interested in debating, and not in bickering.

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    • I agree with your assessment of Mystery, though, Old Guy.

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  11. It’s maybe too soon for off-topic points but i had a borderline heartistic epiphany when i read this:

    http://www.theattractionforums.com/best-forum/107700-dominance.html

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  12. As PUA does contain such a strong artistic element, it’s tough to teach the artistic element. That comes with practice, inner Game, and solid frame.

    I think the best analogy is a sports-oriented one. Good Game is like a basketball match. It’s fluid and moving with a variety of tactics based on what the opposition is doing.

    Early practitioners of Game think it’s more like American gridiron football with precise plays that are discrete.

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  13. Well somehow you just need to get started. Inner game is great if you have it. You don’t start learning to play the piano with complicated orchestra pieces. If you are a nerdy kind of guy who relies on logic and feels at home in a world of science and certainity with binary outcomes you will have some problems dealing in the more ambiguous areas of social interaction (this is also why probability theory alone won’t make you a good poker player).

    If there were an ultimate flow charted routine that worked every time it would be impossible to remember.

    The beauty of it is you don’t need to be right all the time because it’s a game of numbers. A well executed routine that works 1 in 50 times is probably still a lot better than what most people were doing before. Naturals maybe can extend their repertoire by PUA literature but it doesn’t really make that huge a difference.

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  14. artvandelay: “If you are a nerdy kind of guy who relies on logic and feels at home in a world of science and certainity with binary outcomes you will have some problems dealing in the more ambiguous areas of social interaction ”

    I don’t think it’s the logical leanings of nerds that trip us up so much in attempting Game, but rather what others have emphasized in this thread and elsewhere: flirtation’s fluidity.

    Steve Sailer has insightfully observed that he and other nerds, are deep and slow, as opposed to quick, thinkers. Nerds think better than everyone else about complex, abstract problems, and this capacity seems to put drag on our ability to think agilely and glibly, especially in the already stressful, often unfamiliar context of socializing.

    [Heartiste: Keep in mind that Mystery was a self-professed nerd who didn’t do well with chicks in high school. So his system is the product of a nerd’s brain, and is geared toward teaching systematizing nerds like himself. Btw, having met the guy in real life a couple times, I can tell you that he occasionally reveals nerdy tics in his manner of speech. Nevertheless, that hasn’t stopped him from ploughing through hordes of babes. You can tell he works very hard to keep his body language slow and controlled. I suspect he is fighting against some ingrained nerdy wiring.]

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    • on August 18, 2011 at 4:19 am Reactionary_Konkvistador

      If nerds are indeed deep and slow thinkers it may indeed be that MM might be very good for them because they can build up a large store of cached thoughts (an answer that was arrived at by recalling the old conclusion, rather than performing the reasoning from scratch) to see them through in social situations where quick thought is preferable.

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    • I think, too, that nerds tend to take to the beta programming better than most men. We are told early on how great we are by the female teacher and mother figures in our lives, social skills notwithstanding. In fact we see the class clowns berated for their behavior. We have an overdeveloped sense of justice, and so we expect that women should be just like men and should be treated well. We expect, furthermore, that things in the world are logical as they seem to be, rather than chaotic and uncontrolled as they actually are. So we take at face value that what girls say they want is actually what they want, and we take shit-tests at face value as well. So game is needed most by, and adapted best to, nerds. Thank God. This is truly the age of the nerd.

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      • Excellent post, Schmoe. “Overdeveloped sense of justice” is a *very* accurate phrase.

        Elite western culture in toto suffers from that particular delusion.

        If you “nerds” start to enter into deep sympathy with the uses of evil, we’re all in trouble. 😉

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  15. It doesnt work well in Brazil if you follow to the letter.

    I’ve gamed american girls before and its different. What goes for an american girl will sound nerdy and try-hard with a brazilian.

    David DeAngelo and Bad Boy make far more sucess down here. Most of my PUA friends dig Bad Boy’s books and all. I didn’t really read him though.

    [Heartiste: I like Badboy’s style. He’s actually closer to how I operate than MM is.]

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    • MM is most certainly, without a doubt designed for American Girls. Other places around the world are COMPLETELY different.

      Different cultures require different skillsets actually.

      Its necessary to have a little cocky, funny material with a Korean girl, and to be able to tease them.

      BUT…. Women from Thailand HATE teasing, especially from a ‘farang’ or foreigner who they don’t know…

      Qualification and Comfort techniques hold weight everywhere.

      But the product of demasculation of men + proliferation of womens rigths + MTV generation has made america a nation of women with E G O … (as well as 10-15 extra pounds)

      and negs are valid here…

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      • WTF? You claim to be specialists about Asian girls? You can tease Asian girls just fine – and that includes Thais -, just dont go overboard with hard negs. Those are for Americans, indeed, but I am not sure why anyone would bother with them in the first place…

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      • lol hehehe!! You actually have a set of skills cater to us Asians? haha!! With so many different kinds and dialects yeaahh, I can see that. You can’t forget upbringing though…..R and H would say “the template”! ha!

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      • I believe that not being able to tease Thai girls so much stems not from their lack of appreciation for the tease per se, but because your value as a farang (foreigner) is so sky high that any teasing can only make her unsecure and mad.

        But this is the same as anywhere else in the world, if you have much more value than the girl don’t tease her so hard. It’s not necessary and it’s counter productive.

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      • Teasing is all good. It depends WHAT you tease them about. I won’t name anyone, but a few guys here are pretty good at it from an “Asian” point of view! hehe!! I would agree with Nupi about the negs. : )

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      • Whatever, no one can even check his material, if he has any…

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      • I can speak for other Asian females. You want tingles, teasey no neggy. Nupi, dupi is correct!! haha!!

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      • Tell me more, or else I write long angry letter to your sister, your president, and your doctor that injects medicine with long sharp needles !!!

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      • @Asian Dating.

        And Japanese Girls are the most difficult to game of all, aren’t they ???

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    • If mystery or the other pua’s stuff appears too complicated, Badboy (and maybe gunwitch) are out there to simplify things. They both advocate that opening the whole set is a waste of time and energy.
      I approach lonely women most of the time and i open sets only on very good days, so i can’t really compare. But if done properly, approaching the target directly (and casually chatting with the set afterwards) can lead to decent results.

      I also like Badboy’s model to constantly alternate between trust/comfort/connexion on the one hand, and sexual escalation otoh. Like you chat casually like good friends for 5 minutes and then tell her flirtatiously out of the blue that her hair smells nice or some shit.
      It must be done during the pickup and also during the whole relationship. It’s simple stuff but it’s quite powerful.

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  16. Mystery may have been a nerd, but he was also into magic, and pretty extroverted. Experience performing for strangers = instant comfort with club game and large sets. It makes his style kind of hard to translate to day game, where you have to be more low key and go with the flow.

    [Heartiste: True, Mystery likely would not have been the nightlife ladykiller he was/is if he was an introverted nerd instead of an extroverted nerd. But he still would have had some success. His performance artist extroversion was a valuable trait that enabled him to take his game beyond what regular guys can do. And so a lot of MM presupposes some comfort with entertaining large groups of mixed sets. Nevertheless, his core concepts are unassailable.
    And yeah, there are better systems for day game.]

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  17. Mystery is the Newton of game. Sure others have improved on his method, but we’d all still be sacrificing goats to the god of pussy if it wasn’t for Mystery laying the groundwork.

    The best argument I’ve read for why seduction has to be adversarial.

    “Socializing is to women what fighting is to men.”

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  18. I’ve been reading this blog and other game materials for a few years now, mainly to improve my nerdy inclinations and become better socially. While I don’t have much field experience gaming girls (go out maybe once a week), I can see drastic improvements in my professional interactions (networking, obtaining interviews/internships, relationship with coworkers and profs).

    However, I’ve been trying to work out the relative importance of working on game vs. working on myself (i.e. obtaining new skills, sharpening/excel in existing skills and gaining new experiences). After any relationship of a reasonable time, I would think that I don’t have enough experiences to share with another.

    What’s your take on this issue?
    Also, for someone lacking field experience, is MM the best starting point? I much prefer your style of natural flow (also Christian Hudson’s approach), what’s the consensus here?

    [Heartiste: MM, DeAngelo, Savoy are your starting points. MM is primed for club and bar pickup. DYD is more universal in application. Also, gotta give some love to Roosh’s Bang, which is an excellent easy-to-learn guide for the beginner who’s afraid of sounding corny or stumbling over long-winded routines. It’s got lines that you can hear a normal guy saying.
    Read MM first, get the lay of the land, and try out some of his openers and negs (among other things). Learn alpha body language before you learn any routines. If you stand like a beta and fiddle with keys in your pocket, no matter what you say girls are going to brush you off. After you hit up against some walls, begin incorporating other pickup styles until you find the right mix that suits your personality.]

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    • I got to disagree with learning body language before you learn any routines. I think body language is secondary because body language is actually the delivery of the routine. You can’t deliver without the routine. I would definitely work on your stack or routines before you go and talk to women. Go over it in front of the mirror, practice your smiling and how you say it while making eye contact the best you could. Given, both of them do go hand in hand, but routines are way more valuable.

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      • This is insightful. I have found that confident demeanor, while easy to adopt when you’re doing something mundane like walking down the street, is much harder to maintain when talking to an attractive woman.

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      • One approach to this is to become very nitpicky in female looks. Always look for something unattractive in every woman. If you stare at anything long enough it looks weird. Practice on celebrities. Also, learn to factor personality into your gut assessment of women. Think how much a bitch she is due to having been treated like a princess her whole life. These can be fuel for well-placed negs too. The drawback is if you meet a girl that pushes all your buttons, you won’t be able to stay on your game.

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      • The basic premise is pure gold.

        The caveat is right where I usually get in trouble – the girls that dont push all the rigth buttons dont seem to be worth any time (which is largely true) and the others mess with my head…

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  19. Mystery can use this blog. In The Game, he was depicted as a beta dweeb, crushed by a gameplaying russian chick. And Heartiste already hit a nerve when he pointed out his beta tendencies:

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/worlds-greatest-pickup-artist-goes-down/

    Mystery is a great pick up artist. LTR management is a whole ‘nother science.

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  20. Indirect Game and Day Game arent really hard for me. If Mystery was a nerd in high-school, I was a brainy weirdo with anti-social behaviour. Rosseau, Plato and fist fights, that was me.

    To this day I’m far more sociable but still not the effusive kind found in truck loads here. I had to taylor my Game for maximum efficacy, and dont remember approaching more than 3 girls in the same night (almost never came home alone though). I try to dress sharp and give a bold impression, talk little but personal.

    I still couldn’t put MM in practice to the letter, but it filled in the blanks of my game (natural game its called, I supose).

    My friend came telling me about “cocky and funny”, and I told him “can’t I just be cocky? I’m not funny at all mate”. He nodded. “If it works for you…” he said.

    The last time I gamed a brazilian girl, with wich I’m in a LTR today, I just mentioned I was thirsty and wanted a beer. She said she was too. I said lets take a ride and sip some. She said “okay”. Once there, she said her beer was warm. I took the bottle from her hand and tossed through the window, and “Problem solved, drink from mine”. 15 min later, make out.

    The last time I gamed an american girl was a shorty from Tenessee, blond, blue eyed, quiet type, very cute. I was the only one in the room with a penis who could speak english without stutter. I signaled her from the other side of the room, in a party threw for her, to come and sit with me. She came, and took seat. We talked a little bit, normal sociable stuff. I said “I wanna have a smoke outside, you can come with me”. She followed me. It was chilly, almost cold that night, so I took my coat and offered her. Total niceguy. I wrapped the coat around her and we talked some more as I smoked. Then she started staring me in the eyes. Then I moved closer. She held her eyes on mine. Then I kissed her.

    Later that week, her hostess told me found me a bit too straightforward but exciting, and wanted to see me again.

    Little did she know the ogre I’m used to be with the local petites.

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  21. What do you think of Carlos Xuma’s stuff? I’ve read/heard a miniscule portion of his works. I think they’re decent. Though he’s now taken the side of the of a greedy salesman.

    [Heartiste: I haven’t read his stuff, but I’ve heard good things. Supposedly he appeals more to the older man who doesn’t like clubs.]

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  22. Training wheels. Problem is that most of these dimwits never take them off. You’re doing the world a favor by taking it up to the underlying concepts.

    “Game” in the way that it’s going mainstream, is pretty annoying: http://two.cedonulli.com/2011/08/game-the-science/

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  23. “Mystery is a great pick up artist. LTR management is a whole ‘nother science.”

    That is where blogs like this one become particularly usefull.

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  24. I really like Tylers approach. Mystery is good for complete beginners but if you want the best results you should have a good inner game.

    MM teaches you how to ACT like alpha but you should really learn how to BE alpha.

    For example: Mystery says that it is ok to have approach anxiety but you should deal with it by learning good lines and techniques for approach.
    On the other side you have Tyler from RSD teaches that you should not have approach anxiety and puts emphasis on inner game.

    Point is that MM is acting and pretending that you are something you are not, you learn a hundred lines, negs and techniques to get women but you are still the same person; and Tyler’s blueprint decoded is personal development and the guide on how to become person who attracts women which is more beneficial to your game.

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    • But in the beginning, for most folks, they fake it until they make it. They use Mystery, they get a few girls, and the confidence rises, and their inner game develops as a result.

      If you’re not a very confident man, starting with Inner Game is putting the cart before the horse. Get the first few easy pick-ups.

      And don’t spend a fortune on seminars and DVDs: Tyler D is a brilliant PUA and he’s got great insights, but the RSD stuff is way too expensive.

      But I agree that good Inner Game will accelerate your progress.

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  25. Mystery Method models the interaciton that naturally occurs between male and female courtship.

    As far as comfort and qualification goes – theres not much arguing that stuff is at the crux of ANY pickup scenario, regardless of the ‘method’

    That being said – Mystery Method FAILS many guys for mainly two reasons (in my experiance coaching guys, and hearing thier complaints about MM)

    1. The indirect opener – Men get confused and continue the ‘gamey’ interaction instead of dropping it and moving onto more productive aspects of game such as the comfort and qualification that MM suggests.

    In other words, men get stuck in A1.

    On the other hand, going direct does have its effectiveness but inherent failures as well. Men sometimes put a woman on the proverbial pedestal with vacuous compliments backed by little substantial evidence.

    The second Failure….

    2. Canned Lines/Routines – Some guys don’t realize that they aren’t mystery, and his lines may appear weird for them to use. OR they put all thier confidence in the ‘lines’ and don’t realize that the woman is attracted to THEM and not some stupid opener.

    Although this doesn’t eliminate the merit of canned lines altogether -Some men use routines as a grappling hook to get to higher levels. They see the canned line as having merit in its own right – and don’t displace their originality or personal stories with incongruent and obviously false tales of strippers and ferraris.

    All in all, there are probably better models of seduction, but mystery was a pioneer, and his work should not be discounted.

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  26. It’s like poker. You learn the basics and the intermediate (Mystery) and then, if you’re serious about the business, you get into the game theory. If you start with Inner Game, and you’re lacking in social polish, it’s not going to help you very much in the early days of approaching girls.

    That’s why the Mystery Method is the best place to start, though Roosh’s Bang works well in Europe.

    The biggest issue with Inner Game is the degree of profiteering associated with it. Tyler D’s Blueprint is unbelievably expensive, for example. I’d advise anyone interested in Inner Game to read the Chateau archives, and the Sixteen Commandments and avoid the seminars.

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    • Kane’s point about Mystery being the Newton of Game is a great one. Yes, the limitations of his method will be discovered by new experts and visionaries, just like Einstein, Heisenberg and Schrodinger showed the limits of Newtonian physics. But all their work will be refinements of his, or extensions of the theory. And for many people’s requirements, Newton is all they need.

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    • Thats actually Tyler D’s “Blueprint DECODED” video series that is expensive.

      The original PDF “The Blueprint” is rarely talked about but is actually freaking golden. its still floating around the internet somewhere im sure…

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      • Getasiangf, I was trying to check out your asian pickup material but the payment button is broken, any idea what the problem is?

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      • Probably the criminals at paypal freezing his account 😉

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      • That’s how a lot of the PUAs wind up. In the beginning, they’ve brilliant insights which they make available via forums or cheap PDFs. Tyler D was particularly impressive.

        Then they succumb to the lure of selling $2K seminars and the $400 DVD boxset.

        That’s what I like about this site – top grade advise, and not even advertising revenue. The Chateau might pretend to be a nihilistic libertine, but there’s a lot of generosity in how this site is run.

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      • on August 18, 2011 at 2:48 pm old guy, lower case

        Who says nihilistic libertines aren’t generous?

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      • You dont have to buy it retail,ya know. We ARE on the internet.

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  27. I applaud the Chateau or Heartiste or whatever it’s called now for not trying to be “above” the Mystery Method, and giving the book it’s proper due.

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  28. game advice: you meet a chick, lie to her about what school you attend because you are embarrassed that you are still in community college in your later years. you don’t give a shit about lying because you are in short term strategy mode. then, you realize chick is actually relationship material and you will need to fess up the truth before she finds out.

    how do you proceed ?

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  29. If you’re a natural alpha you’d do well with leaving Mystery Method alone. Aside from two chapters if taken to heart as a whole will actually harm your game.

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  30. Here for anyone reading this and wondering what the Mystery Method is, it’s this:

    The attraction phase is divided into :
    A1 – Approach
    A2 – Attracting the HB or Female-to-male Interest
    A3 – Male-to-Female Interest

    The comfort phase is divided into :
    C1 – Building rapport
    C2 – Building emotional connection and physical connection
    C3 – Intimacy

    The seduction phase is divided into :
    S1 – Foreplay
    S2 – LMR
    S3 – Sex

    I think critics fail to realize it takes practice and also requires time investment. You can’t get every girl into bed withing 10 minutes.

    But you can bed any woman if you work through the stages and understand why you’re getting resistance.

    The one thing I’ve worked on is “over-gaming” ie…spending too much time in A3 and not moving into C1 or C2 fast enough.

    You end up looking like a dick or some cold asshole.

    At some point you need to display a vulnerability as long as it’s one you’ve overcome.

    Guys who read this blog I get the impression have the idea that if they just act like jerks or deploy “asshole game” they’ll get what they’re after.

    The reality is, these are tools and tactics. You have to display the right attitude at the right time…that’s why there’s also “Beta Provider Game”.

    But the Mystery Method has proven the test of time…it’s a platform.

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  31. In my experience, a worthy woman is going to be most attracted to at least a dry sense of humor and have one herself (which is rare). She’ll be able to banter back and forth, especially by text. The host of this blog also seems to value this in women. It could be worth as much as 2 points out of 10, if not 3 (in both directions) and it would sure help an older women compete with younger ones.

    Inside jokes are big (inside between you and her).

    Mehow has hit on something with his “be in your own world and draw her into it” instruction. So a discussion about the weather can easily turn to how what the sun is doing affects “our plans for this weekend on the Moon” (she would have already accepted a position as your intergalactic space princess). This all might sound corny, but so does the palm-reading stuff that women seriously respond well to, often letting the man hold her hand for a minute after he starts an entirely new thread.

    Two things to establish with a new woman within minutes after meeting:

    1 – That you can touch her at will (take her hand for more than just shaking it)
    2 – That you can talk about a fantasy reality between the two of you (or at least get her to imagine sharing a part of her past or a part of her future with you)

    It takes a lot of practice to get past these benchmarks.

    I’d like to see more written about how to establish these and other benchmarks.

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  32. Kino is king. I’d say 99% of men don’t know how easy it is to say to a woman that you can read her future, take her hand, do a palm read and say “You will meet a tall, handsome stranger…wearing jeans and a white polo shirt…and you will want to have two kids with him immediately…” and she’ll often be laughing and enjoying herself while not pulling her hand away.

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    • Jerry,

      This is a brilliantly true observation. Kino *is* king for those of us who actually get our hands on women.

      One accomplishes infinitely more with touch than with words.

      Like


    • Great line. Gonna field test it soon.
      But if one is a short ugly fuck, it’s better to slightly change the “tall handsome” part.

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  33. Off topic again but for anyone who doesn’t yet believe the elites aren’t trying to control how we think, regardless of whether we think we want to be “liberal” or “conservative” check this:

    In a further attempt to gauge the post-straw poll attention to Paul’s campaign, PEJ also used the Snapstream server’s closed captioning capability to assess the candidates’ television coverage in the first few days after that balloting.

    The sample included the three network Sunday morning panel shows on August 14, the morning and evening network news programs on August 15 and four hours of prime-time cable and one hour of daytime from each of the three major cable news networks on August 15.

    According to that analysis, Paul was mentioned just 29 times. By comparison, Perry was mentioned 371 times, Bachmann was mentioned 274 times, and Romney was mentioned 183 times.

    Meanwhile Bachmann just finished 4th in a NH poll behind Romney, Perry and Paul (35%, 18%, 14%, 10% if we can even believe the poll results).

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  34. So being a relative newbie I looked into the point about top things “not to do” and found this list:

    http://www.seductionbase.com/seduction/cat/Others/tyler/112.html

    Any thoughts on this? Or maybe a better list of top things to cut the Beta from your personality?

    Like


    • Its not bad, I would not necessarily agree with number 7 though – gestures used the right way can be very powerful, both with girls and other audiences, it just goes back to the no fidgeting, not overdoing it part (unless you are Italian of course, at which point all is fair game)

      Like


  35. To be MM?
    Or, not to be, MM.

    That, is the question.
    Whether ’tis nobler in the hearts…

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  36. agreed. . . .

    However, this blog isn’t for beginners. It’d be hard to find where to actually begin with this blog. If you went onto this blog wanting to ask the question, “how do you start a conversation,” you would be desecrating the search bar for hours. This blog is great for all the people that are acquainted with game already, but I doubt it gives beginners a proper upbringing.

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    • The post “Just Say Something” would be a great place to begin:

      https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/just-say-something/

      It also has a great selection of suggested openers.

      It would be great to see a Part Two for that.

      Like


    • I’ve had people criticize some of my comments for not being 101 enough. The criticism is that the comment could be misconstrued. It’s the “you can’t get there from here” argument.

      The advanced applications of psycho-sexual dominance are at least as important as the beginning steps. The aim of game is not to be able to get a decent girlfriend or to avoid long dry spells. It’s to be the master of your social dynamics, such that you can not only seduce the girl, but re-create the girl into your ideal.

      It is a long ongoing learning process, and us men need a forum that deals with more than repeats of 101 decade after decade.

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    • Yep.
      This place is a filter.
      Those that make it here have achieved a higher grasp of concepts.
      Gold is found.

      The dross flails away on hasbeen PUA sites
      arguing repetitively over concepts from 2002
      and quoting Fight Club as if it were the Koran

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    • on August 21, 2011 at 7:14 am Obstinance Works

      You start with alpha body language.

      Like


  37. You know, that comment by CH about “under your belt” reminds me that I miss a prominent (heh) feature of the earlier Roissy blog: his inimitable stick figure drawings….

    Like