The Subtle Art Of The Insidious Neg

In-her-face negs are really only suited for very hot girls (8s and above) who think too much of themselves, work in a sex field (stripper, pharmaceutical sales rep), are ovulating, or are in a social context such as a club where they are primed for flirty banter. The rest of the time, your negs should be crafted in such a manner that they deliver their payload with sneaky plausible deniability, like a homing missile launched from a hidden bunker aimed at the soft chewy center of her ego. The best negs are those which are conceivably meant as compliments, but which linger in her psyche for hours afterward, undermining her self-conception and encouraging her to qualify herself to you.

I’ll give you an example of what I mean. I was at a party talking with a girl, a cute 7.5, and I mentioned offhandedly (or so it seemed to her, for little I do or say isn’t calculated to maximize my personal advantage) that she seemed really modest. (My assessment wasn’t wholly without merit, judging by her clothes and shy demeanor. Another defining feature of the best negs are that they have the ring of truth to them.)

Naturally, and predictably, she, being a member in good standing of the SWPL industrial complex where modesty is considered a character flaw, balked at this. “Modest? You think that? What do you mean by that?”

I ignored the first importuning, but by the second I had to address her metastasizing concern.

“Modesty is a lost art. It’s not a bad thing… usually. Not everyone feels a need to be an exhibitionist.”

You’ll note three things in my response. One, I didn’t back off from my initial assertion. Nothing kills tingles faster than defensiveness or apologia. Two, I continued the ruse under the assumption that my insidious neg was actually a compliment. Three, I added the qualifier “usually” as a means of keeping her hamster in full throttle spin mode.

I see a lot of guys throwing out community-approved negs on 6s, 7s and sometimes 8s like they are jokey zingers, and the result is often bad, as the girl turns on him or slinks away to find better company. No wonder; their technique carries the whiff of insult, which under normal circumstances with normal cute girls will backfire. (Very hot girls who crave assholes tend to better channel direct insults straight to their vagina region.)

The neg is, as Mystery used to implore, almost a hidden code within the larger conversational framework. It’s supposed to be perceived as a throwaway line of sincere and innocent intent that serves two purposes: one, it disqualifies you to sexy babes who start on the assumption that you’re just another joe schmoe who wants in their pants, and two, it infiltrates a girl’s subconscious so that she spends more mental energy analyzing her worth than she does analyzing yours.

Negs often can be as simple as one-word descriptions that are as easily interpreted as unflattering observations as they are as compliments; and therein lies their effectiveness. No need to memorize one-liners. All you have to have at your disposal is a handy list of vital and penetrating adjectives that cause a click and a whirring in the female limbic system. To wit:

responsible one.
good person.
don’t care about other people’s opinions.
excited to be here.
out of her element.
social butterfly.
above it all.
queen bee.
march to her own drummer.
social/fashion/party maven.
netflix kind of girl.
put up a facade for the crowd.
keep to herself.
energized by the scene.
natural performer.
happiest person here.
good friend qualities.
easy to approach.

You’ll also note that a lot of these unnervingly ambiguous observations focus on a girl’s presumed inability to cut loose and have some fun. They are designed, in other words, to eradicate anti-slut defenses and persuade her to open up… to you, the fearless judger of her feminine worth. Some others focus on her social naivete, or her craving for attention. Sprinkle to taste. Some of these negs fall under the category of cold reads; the difference being that cold reads are usually unambiguous compliments worded to entrap a girl deeper into conversation by getting her to talk about herself.

Seduction is the art of contrived concealment. You want to seduce without revealing the machinery of your mind, or the purpose of your words. You introduce the dangerous idea, and if you are successful, she picks up the idea and joins you in her own seduction.

At the end of the night she proved to me her bona fide immodesty with a streetlamp illuminated makeout.


  1. on September 26, 2011 at 2:33 pm Charlesz Martel

    Very true. THe fine distinctions make all the difference.


  2. “it infiltrates a girl’s subconscious so that she spends more mental energy analyzing her worth than she does analyzing yours” Bingo! So long as you have a woman auditioning for you, power remains where it belongs – squarely in your pocket.


  3. All these posts about game and girls are getting in the way of politics.

    Just kidding! Thought I’d flip the script on the routinized fags who come on here and complain. Hey, if you don’t want to talk politics along our Euro-nationalist lines, I don’t want you to vote. How’s that trade sound?


    • Just kidding! Thought I’d flip the script on the routinized fags who come on here and complain. Hey, if you don’t want to talk politics along our Euro-nationalist lines, I don’t want you to vote. How’s that trade sound?


      wah wah wah, you’re distracting me with all this talk of my ethnic genetic interests!!!


  4. I prefer the word “typically” over “usually.” It seems that any woman who holds herself above the average guys in her life HATES the idea that she might be typical, and using the term “typically” doesn’t mean that she’s typical, but that what you’re saying is common, but it still gets the hamster spinning.

    Great post — so many guys don’t understand negs. They think it just means being mean or an asshole.


  5. In-her-face negs are really only suited for very hot girls (8s and above) who think too much of themselves, work in a sex field (stripper, pharmaceutical sales rep)

    *horrifying face* Uhm Exsqueeze me Heartiste! But I am insulted by the idea that you believe Pharmaceutical sales reps are “working in a sex field”. LOL! We are ones who provide those wonderful free drug samples that grandma and grandpa and others may need to stay alive, be healthier with a better quality of life – thankyouverymuch!

    *proudly exiting thread with head held high*


    • …and with hamster wheel at maximum RPMs.


    • I know plenty of ex-phramasales reps (females), a good number of which admitted they basically had sex with distributors, head doctors of clinics, etc, to get their products shelved and samples distributed.

      Also, I can’t name one medication anyone is on that is better for them than eating healthy. Statins, diabetes “medications” and all are fraudulent. Stop eating wheat and GMO grains and many of those medical conditions have a good chance of resolving themselves naturally.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Thanks for that. Grains are evil, as is anything promoted as being “heart healthy”. Processed foods suck.


      • Not sure if this was posted here earlier or not but you should all check this out. Funny ass editor comments too, like it could have been Heartiste himself.


      • AB,

        We agree on one thing in your post – that many of the major diseases are avoidable if one takes care of themselves properly throughout life. But we live in a society that it takes a great deal of self control and discipline (which a lot of people don’t have) to do the right thing and eat the right way all the time.

        many of these bad habits start during childhood and are ingrained during the early years. Its sad, but without the medications for those where the damage has already been done, many people would simply not have a second chance for starting over – so this is where the statins and diabetic meds come in – to help people at least have some sort of quality of life. Also people don’t always have to take the meds if they changed the way they ate etc. but a lot of people don’t want to and so that is why the medications are necessary.

        You’d be surprised at the number of docs that hate prescribing drugs. But they HAVE to b/c they will and can be sued if they don’t RX statins and other meds to help their patients. That’s the crazy part of it all – even docs wish they didn’t always have to prescribe these drugs.


      • My doctor (who is in his 80s now, and still plays tennis, swims and lifts weights) has only prescribed statins to approximately 2% of his patients with signs of genetic disorders that can be treated with statins. For the rest of us, he says repeatedly “No drugs, diet.” He helped me lose 80# off my ass and gut without any major changes in my life.

        It’s ALMOST NEVER too late to make dietary changes to get healthier. I’ve consulted with some people in their 60s (along with their PCMD’s) and seen plenty of outcomes where they were able to get off of 70-100% of their pills within a year of eating right.

        I think the biggest issue is third party non-neutrality. My doctor refuses to accept insurance, Medicare or Medicaid payments. He accepts cash, check, credit cards. Because the patient pays, he’s able to make better calls regarding their health. Even though he’s taken the Hippocratic Oath, he still knows when to permanently refer a patient to another doctor if that patient doesn’t make lifestyle changes.

        Now that the voting morons have decided they want a bigger, more bureaucratic third party payer for health care (i.e., the federal government), things will only get worse — but this is good news for us alphas, natural or otherwise. As more and more men get morbidly obese and self-treat with beer and pot, demand for solid, athletic men will skyrocket out of this world.

        Too bad I’ve seen the new college students who just started their freshman year down the street from me: at least 70% of those 18-19 year old gals are fat. So I guess it’s not that good news for men who can control what goes in their mouth and bloodstreams.


      • AB o agree with what u said and u have a unique doc for sure!


    • Neecy is the Jar Jar Binks of the manosphere.


      • Nah, Not really – quality intelligent men have never had a problem with Neecy. For some reason though the losers always do. interesting huh? Oh poor me.


      • Too easy. “Quality intelligent men” wouldn’t give Neecy the time of day, so of course they would have no problem.


      • HATERS are gonna HATE. You all on this site are beyond pathetic bitter dickhead losers. No wonder you can’t get laid.

        And as i said, QUALITY men don’t have a problem with women – just the losers who have to pay to get laid – I’m guessing that represents oh 90% of you here!

        The fact is I was talking to the REAL ALPHA here not his little minion of cockroach peons occupying this space trying to “LEARN” how to be men.

        Now move along, fuck off and gather up your coins to go pay for those prostitutes that you need so desperatley to get laid!


      • “You all on this site are beyond pathetic bitter dickhead losers.”

        Such venom — and from a member of the most undesired and undesirable demographic: mouthy kaffir broads.


      • Neecy is having her period. Mid-30s… If my math is correct, she still has 120 periods left.

        Go spend those last eggs with some quality man. Your rants are only a sign that your body experiments a grief over the missed opportunity to fulfill your destiny as a woman.

        In other words: go fuck elsewhere, and leave this gentlemen’s club alone.


      • Why Neecy, such venom! Such vulgarity! How… becoming of you!

        Must have really hit a nerve there. Heh.


      • The anger of a person’s rebuttal is directly correlated with how badly the truth stung them.


      • Wow. You just can’t get enough of this place, can you?


      • Quality men that keep u so busy and take u on so many trips u have tons of time to waste on here. Those kinds?


      • Anon the comments I drew in this post was UNCALLEd for! I was making a joke with heartisite. Why did u all feel the need to co
        E at me like a bunch of catty bitches is beyond me! These responses to me for my original post were fkng uncalled for and is more of a reflection of the men on here than me! You nor any of u had the right coming at me the way you did. So yeah I said what I said b/c men don’t act like the way I all have displayed yourselves here – like a bunch of catty insecure women!


      • Neecy refers to herself in the third person?


      • The Neecy abides.


    • So you’re a sex-worker?


    • I would be insulted to if I saw a Pharmaceutical rep that looked like you. Don’t they have women send in headshots for those jobs? woof


      • Ha! Well that is something you will never have to worry about b/c dumbass losers are usually not in the medical profession – unless they are sweeping and cleaning up the remnants of shit and piss 😉



      • I wonder if she can get any job other than cleaning ladies toilets!


      • Awww wassamatta FAT SKANK, you must be one of those beasts that sits at the desk waiting for a FREE hot lunch from one of us reps huh? The only free lunch I have for you is the taste of my foot in your mouth. mmmm tastes good huh fat skank?


      • …and with that, Neecy has jumped the shark.


      • I haven’t jumped the shark. These losers had no reason to respond the way they did. I made a joking response to heartistes pharma comment and in came running all these pathetic swamp creatures talking shit. It was uncalled for and I’m fkng sick of them. It’s clear why some of the guys on here are unsuccessful with women. They are hateful and bitter and I’m not going to sit quietly while they make unnecessary uncalled for fkng remarks b/c they have issues. I wasn’t talking to anyone here but H. I was joking with HEARTISTE! They had NO FKNG right starting the shit they did out of nowhere! They act like a bunch oh catty bitter school girls instead of men!


      • ‘no right’?

        this is the internet. nobody has more or less ‘right’ to say what they want than anybody else.

        you stepped into the playpen and now you’re crying that you got hit in the eye by a thrown baby rattler.

        no surprise, though….you’re a woman.

        and yes, all women are like that.


      • Uhh, hey Neecy…you know this is like, a free blog, right? And you can, like, leave if you don’t like the people here, or even ignore them?

        Getting your back all up over random comments from Internet strangers says more about you than it does about them. Like the person above says, go get a man and enjoy life, you spend way too much time here and take the shit that’s said WAY too seriously.


    • Pharmaceutical sales isn’t even sales. Being in ‘direct’ sales where you have a commisioned based comp plan where you are paid a % per booked order, that IS sales. This is NOT pharma sales. It’s more of a tits and ass marketing gig.

      After college many of the sorority slurrs that I knew became pharma reps. Such a fucking joke of a job. You drive around with a bunch of meds in your company car and drop off samples to doctors and bring them cupcakes and other bullshit, show some cleavge and shake your ass.

      I second what AB mentioned. Had similar conversations with a few of them.


      • It pays the bills and has its perks. And you do earn bonus and commissions based on the market growth of your territory based on how the prescriptions grow or decrease overall.

        I agree its definitley a no brainer sales job, but really anything not in the science, engineering, math etc., arena is really a no brainer job IMO.

        Yeah the rumors and myths around female pharma reps is that they sleep with docs to get RX’s. i’m sure it happens like it does in almost any field where you have a number of women who sleep their way to become successful. Pharma sales is not unique in this instance.


      • As a joke, a business partner in a tech C2B company that I own a small part of decided to title me as head of purchasing.

        Of course, I know nothing about the infrastructure we sell, nor do I care to, but 3 of the sales women who provide pricing to us all basically hinted that there were fringe benefits if I bought from them and met them at trade shows and conventions. One of those was way more blatant than just hinting, too — and after discussing with other industry folk, it seems that it is pretty common to get a little ass when you make a solid purchase.

        A few years ago, I was introduced to a gal who comes to a corporate head’s office to measure him for custom suits and shirts. She also hinted that a large purchase ($2500 or more) would bring fringe benefits with it. Since I already have a tailor (an Italian man who refuses to work with guys who need pleats), I passed. Plus, she was easily 40# heavier than I could imagine sleeping with.

        Sales and sex go hand-in-hand.


      • Anything not in science, engineering, math?



  6. @neecy, “head held high”? don’t you mean, giving head while high?
    i thought that is how you encourage doc’s to start pushing your product


  7. Any woman in any type of sales is working in a sex field.


  8. I used to me much more Machiavellian with my verbal game, and it has it’s time and place for sure.

    I really like, “You have really nice hair! Do you have any split ends? (They all do.)

    This usually gets them stumbling, “Oh yeah, well, I need a haircut soon, blah, blah, blah,”

    At this point you feign disinterest

    It’s pretty devious.


    • Along the same lines I like this one:

      [While she is talking to you, interupt, give puzzled glance at her hair]

      You: what is your natural hair color?

      Her: omg can you see my roots? I need to go back to stylist blah blah, my natural hair color is baby shit brown blah blah blah


  9. Neg. If you have an abundance of girl things, you don’t need to think so hard about all this game theory.

    My thought, talking to a girl, usually is something like … “Is it worth expending more energy into getting to know you, or is it time for me to leave and get fed by, massaged, and sexed on by … hm, let’s see, maybe Jessica. Or no, that Tiffany girl, massage school. Hmm, yea, or …”

    Negs, good as training wheels. And then step it up past all this basic game talk and go for the Kaiser Soze strategy:


  10. Seduction is the art of contrived concealment. You want to seduce without revealing the machinery of your mind, or the purpose of your words. You introduce the dangerous idea, and if you are successful, she picks up the idea and joins you in her own seduction.



  11. “In-her-face negs are really only suited for very hot girls (8s and above)”

    For a reasonably good-looking guy, absolutely. An ugly dude would be smart to throw negs at 6s and 7s (and 8s and 9s…)

    Actually, negs can so easily backfire that it’s preferable to use them with chicks who are radiating with bitchiness, independently from their hotness. Bitchiness should be the signal to activate asshole game (with negging as a choice weapon).

    That’s for the pickup, playful teasing can be enough to fuck close.
    But some degree of assholery should emerge during the relationship, even with more conventional cuties. Negs have to come into play, sooner or later.


  12. One more category where opening with a neg can work well OR be a disaster- online game.


  13. Heartiste,

    Your message is spreading:


  14. Best discussion of negs I have read since the original mystery method. Examples are particularly good and avoid being offensive or contrived.


  15. In fact, a lot of the Community-Standard negs only work in very specific circumstances. These are more general purpose.


  16. Netflix kind of girl.



  17. on September 26, 2011 at 4:38 pm Proud-to-be-an-Omega-Male

    The “neg” is a powerful weapon in any gamer’s arsenal. I love using negs, but not to pick up or seduce or any of that lame bullshit. I just love to laugh at girls, punch through their bitch shields and push them off their pedestals.

    You see, so many women, the majority in fact, are arrogant and narcissistic and often undeservedly so. All the typical woman has to do is get big and fat and guys still get on bended knee, kiss her ass and tell her how beautiful she is. A woman lives her life as if it were a Hans Christian Anderson fairytale – everything she does is perfect, regardless of how fat and ugly she is. I’ve even seen the ugliest and most repulsive women boast about being able to attract any guy they want or entering some beauty pageant.

    This is why negging girls can be so psychologically devastating for them; women live their whole lives free of criticism because so many guys want to get in their pants. A woman lives her life wrapped in fantasy… that is, until I come along and punch a hole through that massive bitch shield of hers. I always ask the girl I’m negging if she’s having a baby and because the majority of women are overweight to big and fat, it’s a pretty easy neg to deliver. It works every time, like a charm almost. I’ve punctured so many bitch shields and even reduced females to tears. There’s no vice more obvious than the vice of gluttony. Point out that her stomach hangs over her pants and guaranteed that bitch will be on your ass like white on rice. I’ve had bitches giving me crazy stares all night after pointing out how big their asses are. There are many others, but the pregnancy neg is my favourite… it makes me laugh all the time.


  18. If someone called me modest I would take it as a sincere compliment. Same goes for humble, polite, calm, low-key, easy to approach, etc.

    Maybe it’s a Southern thing.


    • So Anne, what is your SMV? Rhetorical.

      ~6 or less. “Modest.”


      • Not that it really matters, but you’re wrong. I am 5’6, 110 lbs, aryan, young, in-shape and have a .73 WTH ratio. But I suppose I’m used to a more conservative culture than most of CH’s readers. In the social circles I’m used to, a man calling an obviously-attractive girl “modest” it is an expression of serious interest that basically translates to “I think you’d be good wife material.”


      • pics or gtfo


      • Aryan? Fucking moron.


      • Don’t have a conniption fit. “Aryan” is a parsimonious way of describing someone of European descent who has pale skin, light hair, and light eyes. The term’s popularity among retarded white nationalists doesn’t make it any less valid as a physical descriptor than “Asian,” “Mediteranian,” or “East African.”


      • Southern girl using the words “Aryan” and “parsimonious”, eh?



      • Except most proper present day Aryans are found in, hold your breath, South Asia. And if that does not make it obvious, they neither have pale skin (although there are Indians that can easily pass for Southern European both by skin tone and facial features) nor light hair (almost exclusively black) nor light eyes.


      • I’m aware that “Nordic” would be a much more accurate adjective than “Aryan” for the physical features that I was describing. However, IME almost no Americans knows what “Nordic” means (much less what people from that region look like) and almost all Americans picture a pale blonde person when they hear the word “Aryan”. Precision of language, in this case, would have obfuscated my point.


  19. Netflix kind of girl! Fucking brilliant. There is just something so perfect about that one…


  20. conservative

    I would take care of anything that could resemble politics, at least for the first dates. Unless, obviously, you are in a political event.


  21. The original Roissy seems to be back.

    netflix kind of girl

    what, pissing off all her admirers and splitting herself in two? yeah, a lot of girls are really good at that. 🙂


  22. Negs are best used as counters to her shit tests. She wants to shit test moi! bitch.. take that cunt.


  23. “netflix kinda girl”

    I love negs. They always work on the skankier girls.


  24. Great post.

    I used this to great effect with a girl who had been giving me IOI’s at my Latin dance class.

    “You’re very serious about Latin aren’t you?”

    Her: Yes…you think I’m too serious? etc etc

    I just smiled…


  25. Netflix kind of girl = Bring the movies


  26. “…to eradicate anti-slut defenses and persuade her to open up… to you, the fearless judger of her feminine worth”

    This is the essence of why the lines and, perhaps more importantly, the perspective that Roissy describes have such a powerful impact on women. Only high-status men have it in them to make judgements of any sort about other people, especially about attractive girls, and especially if said judgement is not necessarily positive. Judgement separates the guy who will nod, smile, and agree with everything she says from a real man.


  27. Excellent post.

    As some others mentioned, there is much misunderstanding about negs. Admittedly it took me some time to fully grasp their application and effectiveness. And overcome the common mistake thinking that “a neg is an insult.” It surely is not.

    It is also important to mention that a neg is not always needed. That is also a misconception to think you have to neg.

    A successful neg I’ve been using lately (usually on dates or in convo with a high compliance target.):

    [Frame discussion around health/working out/diet etc]

    You: it’s perfectly OK for a man to desire a healthy woman as his partner, eats right, stays healthy, has healthy waist-to-hip-ratio…”

    Her: [hamster if full fucking overdrive]

    The responses I get vary, however they almost always lead to an endless spew of her qualifying her “healthy” habits (sometimes while smoking a cigarette on her 4th cocktail of the hour.)

    Other responses include:
    “lol what is a waist to hip ratio. ” in which case I school her a little bit, use as excuse to touch her, show her wiki pedia page on WHR on my phone. Get those insecurities about her weight bubbling over the top.

    “oh lol, I guess I’m not that healthy…lol” this being the self depricating type of response.

    Try it out. Works well for me b/c I’m in shape.

    Caveat: if you’re out of shape, hold the frame that you are aware and working on it if she throws it back at u.


    • Other responses include:
      “lol what is a waist to hip ratio. ” in which case I school her a little bit, use as excuse to touch her, show her wiki pedia page on WHR on my phone. Get those insecurities about her weight bubbling over the top.

      Fucking brilliant, dude. Happily, 95% of the targets won’t be able to piece together the total meaning of “waist to hip ratio” at first hearing, and require instruction.


  28. I agree – subtle is better. The blatant ones are too easy to spot for a girl of even average intelligence.

    And yes, keep her on the defensive wondering if she is good enough for YOU.


  29. Damn right I read Roissy, Stingray. And Spearhead, and Oz, and others.

    Damn good stuff here.


  30. Negs are primarily an American construct. In most other cultures (particularly Aisa as well as much of South America) Neg’s are a big No-No

    Besides hot Korean women, you would never want to neg a 1st generation Asian girl.

    BUT for hot Asian American girls – Negs are absolutely necessary. As American born Asian women (9’s and 10’s) are some of the most self absorbed creatures on the planet. A product of their environment, no doubt. All this and more is covered in my Asian Seduction System

    Its funny how what has a zero or negative effect on women elsewhere in the world – sends hot American women into a frenzy…

    Whats necessary to be succesful in America – is irrelavent in other domiciles.

    However, it’s great to see an article like this that explains an important but often misunderstood constuct of game.

    Even after so many posts about game, players, alphas and POOAHS of all levels can still gain wisdom from this blog.

    Nice post.


    • @Asian SS

      Totally disagree, negs work on ALL women. I live in Hong Kong.

      Negs work if not over-done and if done in a teasing manner.

      They tend to produce a mixed, often hostile reaction from super hot Chinese women who see them as challenging or insulting.

      But with Korean women, no, they usually have goood senses of humour. I just met a Korean flight attendant.

      I negged her saying my flight was delayed, and what could she do about that…she laughed, said she’d look into it…broke the ice and we progressed from there.

      It’s about tonality with Asian women who often tend to overly shit-test, and very often become pouty and childish which is a passive aggressive challenge to dominance.

      THAT is hard to manage. But negs…absolutely essential.


      • Just give up on him, he’s shown on numerous occasions that he does not have the slightest clue about any Asian culture.

        Teaching Western guys how to get Asian girls? Mhh, I wonder how many hours you can spend explaining the concept of “go, talk to her”.


      • on October 4, 2011 at 4:42 am The Chrome Microphone

        That sounds more like teasing, not a neg


  31. This is all useful and extremely well-articulated.

    Applies equally to LTRs.



    Speaking of negs

    [Heartiste: You were in prison? Tell us about the pillow fights.]


  33. @Asian Seduction System –> A.S.S.

    Negs are primarily an American construct. In most other cultures (particularly Aisa as well as much of South America) Neg’s are a big No-No

    Besides hot Korean women, you would never want to neg a 1st generation Asian girl.

    I see your point in Korea; saying anything negative is usually seen as a direct assault on Face (no matter how watered down this concept is today in Korea), and is rarely done; a direct neg would radically disqualify you.


    This doesn’t mean they don’t work. In fact, they tend to have a more nuclear effect. Women spend so much time bolstering their self-esteem in a society that values them largely just for their looks, it can seem like they’re naturally bitchy. But the truth is that even under the mask of intense self-admiration, they’re nervous wrecks. Korean society is savagely oppressive in one way: Everyone is constantly judging everyone else, evaluating them, and comparing themselves. If you neg, you need to cloak it in subtle admiration; complement something she obviously doesn’t value, and by *omission* leave out what she does. Downplay or ignore what she thinks she’s best at. Drop hints at how… Hard she obviously works in the morning to get ready to go to work, and how well it worked, … implying that she needs makeup and slimming dresses to look good. Be subtle.

    It helps when you speak the language.

    This is as good as gold in Korea. In China, it also works a treat, but in China it’s acceptable to throw out HARD banter with women you meet. The reason Beta Chinese guy think you need to be sweet is that Chinese women throw up a “sweet girl” facade whether it’s genuine or not; this is why many think Chinese women are so wholesome and decent. In fact, as many or more are slutty tarts as elsewhere: It’s an act. To bypass this, you can drop massively scathing banter once you establish some communication with a Chinese woman from mainland China. It needs to be tactfully delivered, but when you play the “proper” bad boy, Chinese women generally give in gleefully.

    There’s a deep “female power” culture in urban China. Communism destroyed the family in China and did lots to liberate women – so affairs and sex are hot topics among women and if you’re outside their usual no-go zones, and seem discreet and of the right temperament, you can get even the nicest-seeming girls to distract themselves with you for a while.

    Asian guys have this unfortunate view of Asian girls as pure, unsullied, and virginal; certainly, some are. Urban girls – definitely not. In Korea, multiple BFs and casual sex are virtually institutionalized; once you make the cultural adjustment, it’s relatively straightforward to tap into it. In China, it’s literally the Wild West for sex: a woman’s value for marriage is in how well-behaved she is, but they have 3000 years of pretending to be nice and sweet here.

    I’ve seen the most tragic situations, where nice, utterly oblivious Chinese guys (often from overseas) fall hook, line and sinker for the “sweet little innocent girl” routine Chinese women wear as naturally as others wear hats. I’ve seen it and done it. Married women there’s no possible way anyone would suspect of fooling around have made phone calls from my bed. The change in their demeanor while on the phone is profound.

    So Korea and China are fertile grounds for negs: it’s just that you have to deliver them in a culturally appropriate fashion, and you need to understand their full usefulness.

    Negging an unattractive woman is still a guarantee of terror-flee. You need to be consistent and careful.

    I know what ASS means, but as a white guy who adapted to local cultures pretty effectively, I have to say – dead wrong.

    It’s all in the delivery. It’s all in the context.

    But these industrial societies aren’t actually all that different from the US.

    I never, ever fawn over hot women in Korea. The trick is to consider their looks meaningless – they know they’re hot, so you cant touch it. Go after their modesty, their lack of ambition (quite a tell in a society obsessed with social rank), their lack of modesty, their arrogance, their vanity (always a plus – works on so many levels), their physical feebleness or inability to endure even mild discomfort, etc.

    But my personal experience: They’re *so* obsessed with not letting their plastic surgery secrets get out, the trick is always : never mention it. Fake tits? Be very oblique with negs. Eyes? Same. Nose? Don’t fucking touch it. If you even hint that their $10k surgery isn’t fucking brilliant, it will get you dropped.

    Why? They feel a loss of respect and deep shame: They faked their appearance, meaning they were “ugly” before, and got caught. It’s “hand – in – the – cookie – jar”. The dump you partly because they got caught in their charade and feel ashamed in front of you.

    That shame drives people away here, not just women. When you make a woman lose face, you need to be aware of the likely consequences.

    Dropping negs without making her lose *face* (even with you) is the key. Hence, the much greater importance of plausible deniability in Korea or China.

    Bear in mind China is very different.

    But negs: when well-calculated and delivered, I’ve found they smash home like multiple warhead nuclear weapons. Smash that public ego and you’re suddenly

    “Genuine, truth-seeing, real, not like all these blind stupid Chinese (Korean) guys.”

    Also gives you huge relationship power.

    Which goes to teach you:

    Asian women are still… women.


    • on September 27, 2011 at 2:22 pm (R)-Evolutionary

      Proof that Gorby ought to be teaching the seminars on Asia rather than the ASS dude.

      While my experience with Asian women is limited to west coast of the USA, Gorb’s ideas & conceptsn are legit, and still very much apply to Fresh-off-the-Boat Asian women, or even to 2nd generation women. If they’ve still got an accent, they’re still subject to the cultural values of their homeland. Lots of 2nd generation girls in CA and elsewhere still have the linguistic traits of their homeland, since they learn engrish, and expected gender roles, from their parents, who are themselves ESL speakers who speak with a thick home-country brogue as they impart the values of the ‘innocent’ Asian woman.


    • @Gorb

      The other thing to note, Chinese guys who do well with women in China, Taiwan, HK are either super betas…or guys who are so aloof they almost seem gay.

      Super betas because many women see guys who come across as cocky and funny as players who are “over-confident”.

      Beta provider game in Asia is important to avoid giving off the player vibe.

      But it’s more about the “protector” component of attraction than beta backsliding.

      But women here love and seek masculine men. The confidence without over-gaming is vital and a neg delivered with confidence is a vital ice-breaker.


    • Hey Gorbachev. You made a fascinating post several months ago about how feminism was about lowering women’s standards – something like that. I think I copied and pasted it but I forget where to. Do you know in which blog post I can find it? I would be really interested in seeing it again.


  34. Whether our not to neg a girl has to do with her self assessed value on relation to her perception of yours. Its like that old Chris Rock joke, where he talks about how broke people can talk all kind of shit to rich people about being rich, but a rich person talking shit to a poor person about being broke is an asshole.


  35. The neg should be second nature. If you’re decently skilled, negs will just come out naturally in conversation, you won’t even think about them.

    I have a friend who uses a particularly good neg on hot girls.

    “I bet everyone thinks you’re a bitch, but I think you’re just putting up a front.”


  36. “At the end of the night she proved to me her bona fide immodesty with a streetlamp illuminated makeout”

    Some we know would have gone as far as say “At the end of the night she proved to me her bona fide immodesty with a streetlamp illuminated blow-job”

    Sometimes you sound like there’s some trace of closet romantic in there and really come close to looking for, finding and appreciating the most feminine and womanly of all women 🙂 This means her qualifying as whore material or one night stand isn’t exactly encouraged or to be desired.

    [Heartiste: While streetside bjs are great, they aren’t nearly as frequent as streetside makeouts.]

    Good stuff.


  37. on September 27, 2011 at 8:39 am carthy mccormac

    If you can be reasonably certain that she is (and style of dress, mannerism, the purchasing of an expensive deli tray at a high-end grocery store at 10am on a weekday provide considerable certainty), asking a pharmaceutical sales rep whom you’ve opened cold (and indirect) if she’s a pharmaceutical sales rep can be a very effective neg.

    It’s a win-win, either she is and probably knows exactly how you were able to tell what she does for a living, which gives you attraction leading into rapport (she’s thinking ‘This guy knows the score and is savvy enough to be subtle’ and ‘He knows about me’), or she isn’t, in which case attraction may or may not be practical. If not, tell her it was nice talking to her and exit gracefully, you get to reject her.

    But let’s be real, anyone who’s ever dated a pharmaceutical sales rep will pretty much know when there’s one standing in front of you at the deli counter…


  38. Some other possible adjectives:



    nappyheaded (just kidding…)


  39. on September 27, 2011 at 8:57 am Did he say that

    Did he just say what I think he said…..

    At a family get together a late 60’s male (known for low social intelligence) complimented a late 80’s female whom he hadn’t seen in many months by saying in a genuine, sincere and complimentary tone…

    “You look good, have you gained some weight?”

    My jaw dropped to the floor and after a pregnant pause she thanked him for the compliment.

    I still crack up when I think about it.


    • Not to be the devil’s advocate here but isn’t weight gain in the elderly a good thing? I think at a certain age a plump senior is more attractive than a stick figured one. Just sayin’.


  40. What are some thoughts on gaming girls at work?


    • Personally, I subscribe to the theory of “don’t shit where you eat”. But then I like my job, it pays pretty well, and I’d be foolish to risk it over some girl. And anyway, I’m in IT and the pickin’s are pretty slim here at the office.

      Not trying to be insulting about pay. Just noting that if you work as (for instance) a bartender, you don’t have to care as much about losing your job, since even if it blows up in your face, you can always make a lateral career move.

      But I think you have to approach it assuming that SHE will be concerned, or at least act concerned, about looking like the workplace slut. Getting to that first level of comfort is key. Once you’ve isolated her outside the workplace, proceed as you would with any other girl.


  41. You need to steal all the good stuff
    you can get.


  42. Gents, what are some of the basics of gaming a girl you work with?


  43. Last two posts have been gold. Welcome back to the original author.

    A lot of girls have heard of the game/PUA phenomenon and will talk about how they never fall for it. This isn’t always the hamster talking. They mean that they’ve experienced the jokey zinger approach and it didn’t work. These same girls are totally susceptible to the kind of game described at this blog.


  44. i got another question. how do you ignore their questions without looking like a douchebag?

    [Heartiste: I talk about something else. Women are cats. They will follow the string or the laser pointer wherever it goes.]


  45. Add to the list “particular”


  46. Wow. Most of the comments directed to Neecy above seem like insults from third graders to the icky girl. I’m surprised to find them on this site, especially on the post about intelligent and subtle negs. I know you guys aren’t trying to fuck her, but still, it’s just weak.


    • Agreed. A bunch of “men” attacking a woman like a bunch of school girls? FOR NOTHING? Definitley not a good look on a game blog for sure. I feel sorry and embarressed for them.

      I do apologize however, for my insults that may have offended the rest of the fellas here who maintained their MASCULINE ALPHA FRAMES and stayed out of it like real men typically do when drama arises between women.. I mean a woman and school girls.


    • “I’m surprised to find them on this site, especially on the post about intelligent and subtle negs. I know you guys aren’t trying to fuck her, but still, it’s just weak.”

      Ah, Mr. White Knight seems confused. A neg is only used on a woman with whom you are interested. FYI, Neecy is neither. And the only ‘weak’ thing is her ad nauseum whining and pathetic shaming attempts.


  47. Question: What do you do if a girls says something like this:

    “Nice neg.”


    “I can’t believe you just negged me. That is so lame.”

    This goes beyond just negs. Game has been public since Mystery started giving his seminars in 2001. Its been 10 years now. Girls know what this stuff is. What do you say if a girl directly calls you out on using Game or negs or anything PUA related?

    [Heartiste: I’d run with it. “Yeah, I’m trying out my new stuff on someone who looks like they could use it.” Whatever you do, don’t get defensive.]


    • In other words, go meta.


      • I love that. My favourite conversations are the ones where you’re peeling back the fluff, uncovering context layer by layer, until all that’s left is naked scaffolding and a silent, mutual understanding.


    • I have only had this happen to me once, and that was by a hot 9 vegas VIP table cocktail server. I can’t remember what exactly was said, but it was one of my friends that said something stupid. Wasn’t really even a neg.

      Her: “was that a neg?”

      Me: “no, because if it was, we’d actually be interested in you. go get our drinks, thanks.”

      Never had it happen since.

      IMO women aren’t analytical enough during social conversation to dissect the content and render the conclusion that you have negged her. If she did say that, it was premeditated from her watching mystery on VH1.

      Just chuckle and say “dork.” Roll off.


  48. The most subtle neg with women in the 8+ range is NOT to compliment them on anything relating to their looks, clothes, hair etc.

    Every other guy (AFC chumps etc) has been throwing her free compliments since the day she started growing breasts.

    She has to earn your comliments and until she does so, light teasing and making light fun of her is a better strategy.


  49. I don’t owe anyone any apologies and I don’t HAVE to do this, but i want to. So i want to apologize to the guys here who I may have offended that had nothing to do with the UNFORTUNATE and UNCALLED for drama up above.

    My insults were directed to those who felt the need to unnecessarily attack me… for what? I still have no clue. But It is my right to defend myself although my intentions weren’t to offend the rest of the guys here who are respectful , sane and just want to come here to have a decent discussion without a bunch of UNECESSARY and UNCALLED for drama that could have been avoided had people chosen to act like adults and not bully and gang up on one woman – FOR no apparent reason at all.

    I made a joking light hearted comment to Heartiste about something he said and it unfortunately and SHOCKINGLY took a strange twist into a bunch of “MEN” attacking me. So to those lurking and those who I may have offended that stayed out of it, i’m sorry.


    • neecy,

      your comment which started the scuffle had a signal to noise ratio of zero. it was not only a perfect example of blogospherical attention whoring, but a reminder of sorts to the rest of us that despite your shrieking about leaving this blog to start your own, you are in fact still here. this saddens us, much like the little roach droppings that appear on the countertop a week after the exterminator came by.

      one could ask what motivates you to do such a thing, but it’s really not necessary because: a) your answer will be untruthful so we’ll ignore it, and b) we already know the answer.

      thank you again for reaffirming the tenets of this blog vis a vis the behavior of women. a consolation, however small, nonetheless.


    • ‘So to those lurking and those who I may have offended that stayed out of it, i’m sorry.’

      A female apology? And unless I’m just easily duped, it sounds sincere.

      A sincere ‘I’m sorry’ is as rare as ‘It just happened! It’s not my fault!’ is common among chicks.

      Sorry, not buying it. Neecy is a dude.


      • notice that even in her ‘apology’, she frames it in such a way as to absolve herself of any real culpability.

        ‘it wasn’t my fault [for walking into a cage full of lions and provoking them], i was defending myself from BULLIES who had NO RIGHT to attack me [i mean, like, what is this, the internet or something?]’

        what do you get when you take a man and remove all reason and accountability?

        she’s definitely female. the rant she posted on her blog about what happened here is a shining example of the female mind at work.


      • “a shining example of the female mind at work.”

        …and one of the funniest things I have read in at least a month.


  50. Dont sweat it neec

    talk of girl pharma reps
    and cunty lawyers
    naturally gets our blood up


  51. This Neecy, I would I love to bend her over, and alternately pile drive her butthole and pussy back and forth. In one hole, then the other, back and forth.


  52. How about this one:

    Me: “So how old are you again?”
    Girl: “26.”

    ** twenty minutes later **

    Girl: “I can be a bitch sometimes.”
    Me: “Yeah. 26 and ticking!”


  53. One neg that is too much for me is: dominant/ strong/ in control.

    It always makes me feel masculine and will repel me. Maybe if I wasn’t already touchy about it, I wouldn’t care that much and it would work. For now, it instantly kills it.

    The man should be dominant. At all times.


  54. Jessica Alba is a hot pharmacy rep.


  55. on September 29, 2011 at 2:16 pm Deadliest Snatch

    I have a fish on the line boys! And she is a fighter! Here’s the situation:

    This has all been done online, I haven’t met her in person. Her profile pic is literally just a picture of her tits (in a bra), the other pic shows her face and also prominently shows off her boobs. Her boobs are basically a 9, her face is a 7. I would call her an 8 as far as I can tell. Her profile indicates she is an absolute maniac, a total nutcase, imo. I’ve played it really slow and light-hearted. I have NOT negged her yet. She ignored me for quite a while, but then responded with some comments that, taken literally, indicate no interest, but were actually pretty funny and light-hearted in their own right. In other words, her wheels are turning.

    I told her to meet me at the zoo. She did not respond. I did not go to the zoo. She did not go to the zoo, either. BUT, she mailed me, unprompted, and asked me if I had a good time at the zoo by myself. She then mailed me again, minutes later, with a joke that I wasn’t alone because the animals were there (she’s a regular Rodney Dangerfield).

    Should I tell her I didn’t go to the zoo, either, and make a joke of it in the sense of: 2 can play at this game? Or is this too “logical?” Or should I tell her, yeah, I had a great time at the zoo! Should I ignore the zoo altogether?

    Is it too late to neg her? She is in definite need of a neg, but now that she mailed me to tell me she didn’t go to the zoo, would negging her right back would look way too spiteful? I was thinking about saying here boobs are great and her face is mediocre, but I was thinking maybe negging a chick’s face, as a general rule, is too much. Or I was thinking about just saying she would be hotter if she was a blonde. I don’t wanna do anything out of spite, but at the same time I am unattached to the outcome, I’m just having fun playing the game!


    • on October 4, 2011 at 5:17 am The Chrome Microphone

      I’d recommend ignoring her
      As a strategy and as a general piece of advice
      Seems like a bitch
      And you’re prolly in damage control haemorrhaging value right now
      Turn your back


  56. I have known a lot of Pharm Reps. The good ones are very clear in their minds as to what the job requires. They are there to get your attention and to entertain you. If they get that right, you might check out their stuff.
    The absolute best one I have known, ever, was a smoking hot blonde with a big blue-eyed innocent act. She could always get in the door – any door at all. Guys would pretend to listen to her spiel while she leaned down to show her tits. But because of all that, guys would look often it up online afterwards.
    A really good one I knew would never talk about her product at all. She only talked about the Doctors she had fucked and her evil Ex-Lawyer husband – while leaning to show her tits.
    It is like a tiitty bar except they buy the drinks.
    You need some more depression? There are several drug products that have failed in the Medical Marketplace because they had a dorky name. They were cheap and effective but they had a dorky name. So, you have to pay more and/or die.


  57. From alternet

    You can cut a girl down to size with backhanded “compliments,” belittle her until she thinks the only way to feel good again is to win your attention. You can taunt her with insults about prudishness, until she thinks she needs to prove something. You can taunt her with insults about sluttiness, until she thinks she might as well confirm what you already think of her. You already know that these dick moves are beneath you.


  58. Thank you, blogger, for setting the record straight about negs. So many guys think they are “flirty teases” when in fact they are just the opposite. Seemingly sincere yet innocuous statements that no guy who is on her jock would ever make.


  59. What about implying she is the opposite of modest?

    “You look like you live dangerously..”

    Is this a total dead-end?


    • Oh, that could backfire. She could get defensive.

      Better to neg her into qualifying her self as a woman who lives dangerously. “But you don’t look like the adventurous type”

      Then she’ll get defensive and try to prove that she is.


  60. @A commented on The Subtle Art Of The Insidious Neg.

    Hey Gorbachev. You made a fascinating post several months ago about how feminism was about lowering women’s standards – something like that. I think I copied and pasted it but I forget where to. Do you know in which blog post I can find it? I would be really interested in seeing it again.

    No idea. I get around a lot.

    It was a good argument.


  61. […] – Women on the Pill tend to become Netflix kinds of girls. […]


  62. The general tenor of the negs (responsible, straight-laced, modest, and so on) got me wondering whether anyone has ever tried ‘morality game’, the idea being to neg the girl by poking at her foibles and moral failings with a tone of mild shock mixed with amusement. Examples of handy adjectives might be devious, crafty, sly, unscrupulous, manipulative – or even just the opposites of those above – irresponsible, immodest.