Confronting Vs Ignoring A Manipulative Girlfriend

I-dawg writes:

Good stuff, man. I can’t tell you how much easier your blog and a rough knowledge of Game in general has made my dating life. Here’s a question for you though: how do you handle a steady girlfriend who wants to hang out with one of her now-married Ex’s (and his wife) from ‘back in the day’? It doesn’t sit right with me, but she keeps pestering me about it. Unfortunately, my stripper-ex has moved 1000 miles away and gotten married herself, so I can’t just agree-and-amplify by hanging out with her.

First, it’s almost always bad news when a girlfriend wants to “hang out” with an ex “from back in the day”, regardless of her ex’s current relationship status. You may as well start visualizing his cock sliding in and out of her right now.

You can take this to the bank: A girlfriend who want to hang out with an ex does so for only two reasons.

1. She wants to fuck her ex.

2. She is manipulating you for fun and profit.

Either way, it’s a red flag that your relationship is sailing for rocky shoals.

Don’t think for a minute that just because your GF candidly tells you of her idea to see her ex means that she isn’t thinking of fucking him. Quite the opposite; girls will usually drop bombs like that to alleviate the guilt they feel from harboring illicit thoughts of infidelity. It’s a major hamster rationalization that sounds something like this in their pretty little heads:

HAMSTER VESSEL: I can’t stop thinking about my ex.

HAMSTER: If you do something about it, it won’t be your fault if you warn your boyfriend first.

HAMSTER VESSEL: If I warn him, he’ll dump me! Or act clingy and beta and that is a huge turn-off I can’t abide if I want to marry and divorce him someday.

HAMSTER: What are you worried about? You’re just thinking about hanging out with your ex.

HAMSTER VESSEL: Yeah, hanging out! It’s his fault if he gets insecure about that.

HAMSTER: Now you’re getting it. And, hey, while your talking to me, can you pass me an aspirin? This spinning is giving me a headache.

My advice, friend, is to test the waters for which emotion is motivating her actionable offense against you. Is she really daydreaming about her ex, or is there something amiss in your relationship that is causing her to lash out like a mischievous impette? If the former, you should dump her first so that you can glide out of her life with that all-powerful hand which will give you a confidence boost for future pickups. If the latter, you have the luxury of deciding whether you want to play along and devise tactics which will reel her back into your orbit, or fuck with her head before delivering the sayonara shiv.

To determine where she is coming from, I suggest initiating the “instill dread” protocol. Do you detect whiffs of jealousy? Does she seem bothered by your flirting with her sister? Do your “late nights” at work get her worked up? Or does she seem blasé about your machinations? You could also call her bluff, but, as you said, counter her oh-so-innocent offer with your own suggestion for you to see your ex. “Funny you say that… my ex is in town and she emailed me to get together for lunch. I suppose we’re both cool with this, then?” Watch for facial tics that reveal she isn’t cool with that bargain.

The nuclear option is to straight up deliver an ultimatum. “If you see your ex, our relationship is over. These terms are non-negotiable.” If she’s bluffing, she’ll recant her suggestion. If not, she’ll act annoyed and say something like “we’ll talk again when you’ve calmed down.” If she was thinking about leaving you anyhow, she’ll just use your ultimatum as the excuse that she needs to dump you free of guilt.

Many men will be tempted to confront an unruly girlfriend who asserts her desire to see her ex-boyfriend. Confrontation is the useful strategy in some cases, but it’s not what I consider a go-to option. Confrontation can just as likely blow up in your face as smooth over problems. Cavalierly ignoring a manipulative girlfriend can be useful in measured doses, but as a strategy tends to diminishing returns the longer she knows you or the deeper any problems — like her roaring cuntery — fester.

The best strategy is structured, and builds upon itself as the circumstances warrant: start with a calculated amusement and teasing, coupled with a distant and condescending regard of her offer, followed by active steps to screen her motivations, and then finally a bold statement of your intolerance for her shit if it need come to that.

Whatever you do, don’t do beta. That means, no “aww, honey, let’s talk about this”, no “do you not love me?”, no “what did I do wrong?”, no “what do I need to do to make it better between us?”, no “why do you want to see your ex?”, no “do you still love him?”, no begging, no pleading, no supplicating, no butthurtness, no white knighting (“i’ll kill the guy!”), no manboobery (“but i thought he was a jerk to you last time you dated?”), no uber-manboobery (“i’m a card-carrying feminist! isn’t that what you wanted??!?”), and no promises to love her fitter, happier, more productively.


  1. Dread and the fade away are spectacular.


  2. This post is awesome. My advise would be to walk away I’d she is already under his skin. A suggestion to meet a married ex is not to be taken lightly.

    It’s a power play.

    Who’s being played is the question. If its the ex than you are the prise show off if its you than keep the hand and walk away, don’t bother to be around this cunt.


  3. on December 14, 2012 at 5:23 pm Holden Caulfield

    Having been in this situation before, I agree with the CH suggestions. This is also why you should always have some orbiters, if not a full-on booty call list. Having viable back-up azz options makes you much less tolerant to this kind of bullshit.


    • She is either not in love enough with her current man, or she is a feminist and has no common sense or idea how a man reacts to the thought of his woman sleeping with another man before him.

      Furthermore, if a man was alpha enough, she wouldn’t couldn’t think of any other man, period. Her thoughts would be only on him, no one else.

      The fact that a woman even talks about her ex and wants you to meet him, a man she slept with, is enough to render her a slut. A woman doesn’t have to pretend she is a virgin, but at least don’t give a face to the man (or men) she slept with before her current BF. Women used to know this instinctively, but feminism made them think they can act like men, boast about it too, and still be desirable as GFs or wives.

      Dump immediately.


      • Yes, Puleeze more information coming guys from a woman ABOUT women.

        I dont know to take you seriously or just ignore you, will see how you respond between YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT A WOMAN WANTS? but it sure beats it that women are spewing their opinions here.


  4. I believe it also matters on how their relationship ended.

    Did he dump her, did she dump him?

    If he did the dumping, really should watch out.


    • Agreed. If this ex dumped her, she’s infatuated for his dick.
      Besides that, HE’S MARRIED NOW. So I think she’s playing to get him back one way or another.

      The ‘steady’ girlfriend sounds bored. So I think the best option for the OP is to pick up new leads or game orbiters.


  5. Nuclear option in this situation…some shit tests she throws you don’t take her seriously. This isn’t one of those times.


    • I agree. Situation like this, I’m straight-to-nuclear-do-not-pass-go.
      Anybody who pulls this shit has, simply by doing so, demonstrated that the relationship is already over.


      • I’m straight-to-nuclear-do-not-pass-go.

        Yeah, this chick is frickin EVIL.

        She is attempting to destroy two lives in one fell swoop – her current boyfriend’s life, and the life of her ex-boyfriend’s current wife [and God forbid that there should be any children in that marriage].

        Evil EVIL EVIL.

        The one and only purpose in dating a chick – seriously enough to call her your “girlfriend”- is for the purpose of auditioning her to become your wife and then THE MOTHER OF YOUR CHILDREN.

        And evil chicks are NEVER candidates for becoming the mother of your children.

        Were it I, I wouldn’t even formally “break up” with the bitch – I’d just make certain that I got all my shit out of her apartment [books, CDs, DVDs, computer peripherals, etc], and then never speak another word to her for the rest of my life.

        Move on.

        Find a chick who’s got the moral fiber necessary to be the mother of your children – she’s out there somewhere, waiting to meet you – go find her and claim her for yourself before some other dude beats you to the prize.


      • books, CDs, DVDs, computer peripherals, etc

        Also power tools!!!

        Don’t go forgetting $500 or $1000 worth of really fine-assed DeWalt/Stihl/Milwaukee/Bosch tools in her garage and then not be able to go back and retrieve them after you’ve gone nuclear.

        Power tools are better than pussy.

        Shit damn.



      • Well said.


      • “The one and only purpose in dating a chick – seriously enough to call her your “girlfriend”- is for the purpose of auditioning her to become your wife and then THE MOTHER OF YOUR CHILDREN.”

        True. If you are not looking for a wife, just have fuck buddies. Who needs a GF?


      • But why would you keep all your stuff in her apartment? A wife-material wouldn’t be living with you before marriage (even if you are banging after dating for a while).


      • But why would you keep all your stuff in her apartment?

        It’s just amazing how much shit starts to accumulate in the bitch’s apartment.

        That time you wanted to teach her about “jazz” and you left an Ella Fitzgerald CD over there.

        That time you needed to fix the plumbing in her kitchen sink and you left some really nice wrenches over there.

        That time you had a dinner with another couple and there was one really nice bottle of wine that you brought that never got drunk and it’s still lying around somewhere in her kitchen.

        FIRST you get all your shit outta there.

        THEN you can go nuclear on her ass.

        You don’t wanna be in a situation where you’re totally radioactive but then suddenly you remember that you left your $250 DeWalt jig saw over there and you have to get all beta and go back with your tail between your legs and beg her to let you in so that you can retrieve it.

        Fuck that shit.


      • LOL! I love your stories.


      • Last time I met an attractive woman who listens to Jazz was…..umh…never.
        2 1/2 dimes for a power jig saw,eh?
        Mine’s a manual, bow-type, vintage circa mid-70’s, works great.


      • You don’t wanna be in a situation where you’re totally radioactive but then suddenly you remember that you left your $250 DeWalt jig saw over there and you have to get all beta and go back with your tail between your legs and beg her to let you in so that you can retrieve it.

        I hate when that happens.


    • Yes.

      Of course, I usually just tell them “no.”

      They look at me: “What do you mean no?”

      “You will not hang out with him. End of story.” (emphasize with swat on ass, if available).

      (Tries route of laughing at your insecurity, might get angry).

      Looking at her: “If you do so, or attempt to do so, or do so behind my back, it’s over. Even if I find about it a year from now, it’s over.” (smack again). “Now get on the bed.”

      And if she does see him, walk. No matter when you find out.

      Most just want you to put your foot down like a man.


      • I’m convinced just saying no to a woman causes tingles. It doesn’t even matter what the no is about.

        Use it frequently…and without apology.


      • True dat.

        Also, a menacing star and uncomfortable close quarters thrills them.



      • “Most just want you to put your foot down like a man.”

        Very true. It may be nothing more than the woman in this scenario wants reassurance from the boyfriend that *he* is committed to *her*, that she is claimed, etc. She might very well be relieved, pleased, even proud to be told no, especially if she was dumped by this ex.


      • “Most just want you to put your foot down like a man.”

        That’s true, especially if she is saying it in jest looking to see your expression. More than likely it’s a shit test. Therefore, a little bit of you throwing your weight around is enough to thrill her. Otherwise, you’re simply not turning her on enough and now she’s craving her ex and the sex they once had, and she is alos slut who likes to rub your face in it. If you were controlling her sufficiency, she wouldn’t be thinking about her ex and wouldn’t even want you to meet him and get judgmental over her past. Honestly, some of these women are beyond clueless about how man react to their women past whoring.


      • “Yas I’ll do whatever you say…whorefinder.” Lozzolozzolozzl!


      • That’s usually what your mom says.


  6. ” and no promises to love her fitter, happier, more productively.”

    Radiohead. I like your style.


  7. on December 14, 2012 at 5:39 pm youareallwankers

    I see that as no-win situation .
    if you play her game and start making her jealous it will be like a gaming the woman you don`t want anyway – manipulative cunt.
    You will be in this negative mindset – power games , remember that women are much better in social manipulation, she showed you disrespect already , so why try win her back ?

    the second option is just split with her , just to minimize the damage, maybe LJBF her.


  8. Why bother with anything but a dumping? For a hotter, younger chick? The whole point of Game, really, is that commitment is for suckers. Losers. If you’re going to be constantly Gaming, you might as well just … constantly Game. Why put up with it? When you can always trade up?


  9. I’d ask her if ex’s new wife is hawt or not, and make any “visiting” contingent upon her being a full +1 point above said GF, including making her fetch a good to excellent photo of her (even if she has to email the “ex” for a candid photo).


  10. on December 14, 2012 at 6:17 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    This just in: Taylor Swift is already dating the killer’s brother. She was impressed with his sudden rise to fame.


  11. Within the terms you set, yes. Best answer is: if you are dating a manipulative girlfriend, dump her and get a less manipulative girlfriend


  12. So in other words. Boot the cunt.


  13. OK, what about this, though. Mr. JB’s ex-fiancee came through town and wanted to see him. Back in the day, she let him know that she was busy fucking the entire Sunshine Coast Surf Team by leaving him with an (easily treatable) STD, and the marriage was off!

    He wanted to see her to say “Check it out, bitch. This is what you missed!” and I was totally fine with that. Hey, dude, have fun.

    Sometimes meeting with the ex is just a way of sticking it to them, no?


    • “sticking it to them”? isn’t that what you’d be trying to avoid?


    • While I would normally go nuclear immediately, there ARE exceptions, and something like this is one of them. If I were to talk about meeting a very certain someone, Mrs. Happycrow would know it wasn’t for the shtupping purposes, but to make a given point as brutally as possible.


    • Seems like a bit of insecurity to me. Why would you want to prove to some cum dumpster how much better your life is? Getting away from a terrible woman and being with a better chick is all the internal proof I would need. Plus with women she’ll probably forget pretty easily anyway…the next dude will do that.

      At least with me….I consider all my exes as dead.


  14. 6′ tall model with a feline face and spectacular green eyes. Shit. Maybe he fucked her, for old time’s sake?

    Oh well.

    I guess that’s one way of “sticking it” to her.



  15. on December 14, 2012 at 8:37 pm Robert Seymour

    In assessing whether to let your women see one of her exes, you have to assess his prospects with women. I have an ex-girlfriend who has kids I love to spend time with, but I can’t see them because her husband is jealous of me. She probably wants to sleep with me and likely introduced me to them for that purpose — or at least to introduce drama into her marriage — but I do _not_ want to sleep with her. I only want to play with her kids. I dated her in her early 20s, she’s now in her early 30s, and I do not find her physically attractive anymore. I pull far more attractive women now and I don’t want to wreck her marriage and hurt her kids. But this guy’s insecurity robs me of the joy her kids bring me. He’s a loser.


    • Why on Earth are you interested in her demon spawn? If you don’t like either of the parents, wanting to be around the kids is weird.


      • on December 14, 2012 at 8:59 pm Robert Seymour

        I like her as a friend, just not sexually. I like kids. They’re fun to play with. If that’s weird, so be it. Being an uncle to someone else’s kids is a fun thing to do until I have my own.


      • Stay away from someone else’s kids. If something happens to them, you’ll get blamed first. People have no business with other people’s children. If you like kids, have your own. In addition, the mother is married, why ruin her marriage? It’s not a good situation for you.


  16. If Game has improved this fellow’s life, why is he sticking with a woman who clearly wants somebody else? I think the perfect approach is to tell her it just won’t happen, explain why, and tell her never to raise the subject again. Then, start lookin’ for her replacement. So, when she mentions it again, dump her, and just move on. Or, to save yourself a bother, just dump her now, take time out for reflection, then move on. There is no way this gf is a keeper.


  17. The solution:
    Never have girlfriends for longer than a few weeks.
    They ALL have Ex’s of some type or another lurking in the wings.


  18. “You can do whatever you like Babe, you’re single now.” and walk out and ignore her calls/txts for a couple weeks.

    You don’t need the explanation, I’ve just always wanted to use it lol

    Details on the art of the Soft Next:


    • This is the kind of shit I was looking for. Good looks YR.

      Question for you. Whats the most devastating way you have broken up with a girl?


      • No dramatic stories, sorry. I’ve only legit broken up with a few serious girls and they were sad events to me.

        In general I keep my relationships casual enough that there’s no need for a breakup…It’s completely in her control whether we hang out again because I can get other girls. As long as she’s drama-free and fun and a good lay, I welcome her into my life. If she fucks any of those up (acting out in jealousy over my lifestyle, being too depressing/pessimistic in general, letting herself get fat or stopping dressing up when I see her etc), I just don’t put in any effort to keep the relationship going or contact her until either she’s gone from my life or she smartens up and gets with the program. And if she fixes whatever caused me to stop putting effort into her, she’s welcome back into my life, I don’t really hold grudges, I love women and would love for them to all be in my life…like I say it’s completely in their control. A lot of them have trouble wrapping their head around that concept at first lol

        The funny part to me is that the super serious monogamous girls I broke up with, I’ll never hear from again or keep in touch with or bang again because it’s too much drama and too devestating to them etc. whereas the casual fuckbuddies I’ve cut out, I’ll occasionally run into months/years later or keep in touch with and we’ll fuck around together. I find that funny in a way, that the girls I cared about the most are the ones I won’t see again after a breakup lol

        These days it’s not even a game tactic for me, I just don’t accept that type of behavior because I only like positive happy fun people in my life in general. I’ll cut out guys, casual acquaintances, family members, etc if they cross my boundaries, life is too short to waste on people acting shitty. Except for on here, cause I’m here to teach men learning game and that’s worth putting up with some douches lol


      • The identity is strong within this one


      • on December 15, 2012 at 9:52 am Holden Caulfield

        “the girls I cared about the most are the ones I won’t see again after a breakup”.

        Dude, that is so fucking true. I agree with you – they just can’t handle it, yet the former casual flings are texting again as soon as they’re single again (some even before lol). Doesn’t matter if its years later.


      • +1

        Cutting out bullshit works wonders. Fuckbuddies, friends, family… doesn’t matter. Life is so much simpler when you -choose- to stop letting drama weigh you down.


      • “the super serious monogamous girls I broke up with”

        That’s why we’ve been telling you that there are whores and a few madonnas.


      • lol women go through phases of riding the cock carousel and wanting monogamy. Do you really think the girls I mentioned have been and/or will be completely monogamous for their entire life? Or, like all human beings, they’ll go through different phases depending on their needs and goals at the time?

        No you’re right, these ones just had the magic Madonna fairy dust sprinkled on them that sluts don’t get sprinkled on them. That’s much more logical.


      • Well, it makes sense that the girls you cared about you won’t want to see ever again, there is too much pain there. You can only be friends with girls if the relationship didn’t mean anything but sex. That’s the whole point of being a PUA – having sex without getting too close to a woman and developing feelings for her – ‘cause the moment you do, you can’t continue the lifestyle anymore. PUA is about sex, not feelings.

        Women too, feelings works similarly for them, which means that if she wants to hang out with her ex, it’s because he didn’t really hurt her emotionally and this is just an ego boost for her in front of her current guy, or because her current man is not keeping her sexually enslaved to him while her ex was a good lay so she wants to sleep with him again. I doubt she’d want to see him if he really hurt her. Whorefinder is right; he should use some menacing action and that will get her swooning for him and hovering on clouded 9, semi-turned on at all times.


      • Guys who are PUA do hold feelings for the women they are banging, THEY ARE NO SHALLOW Nitelily, it is just that in today’s world and in this century women trample a guy who shows an ounce of feeling because not only feelings are thrown out the window but they are laughed at, and really showing emotions and feelings is by far not the best way if you want to get into the pants of the girls.

        So PUA guys keep it to themselves, I havn’t in my years shown feelings, if even i had any i would make myself stone hearted who doesn’t care if the girls like it or not.


      • “THEY ARE NO SHALLOW Nitelily “

        Wait a minute, I never called men shallow. I think it’s the women who are shallow. Men are more purposeful. Whether it’s to get sex or more, it’s equally a purpose.

        Men usually have a direct motive for engaging in something, hence it’s purposeful, while women are on the receiving end. As long as we’re desired we’re happy. Hence, the shallow.

        “it is just that in today’s world and in this century women trample a guy who shows an ounce of feeling because not only feelings are thrown out the window but they are laughed at,”

        Wait a second, even if women didn’t trample on men, a PUA couldn’t develop feelings for a woman because then he couldn’t continue the lifestyle unrestricted. So women’s behavior toward men is irrelevant to the PUA’s continued enjoyment of pussy variety. More accurately, if a man wanted to give up the PUA lifestyle in favor of settling down, then I can see you blaming women’s attitudes and feminists brainwashing against men as the reasons for the current misalliance between the sexes.

        “So PUA guys keep it to themselves, I havn’t in my years shown feelings, if even i had any i would make myself stone hearted who doesn’t care if the girls like it or not.”

        Well, it’s to be expected you haven’t shown any feelings in years. If you want to continue your PUA-ing lifestyle, why would you let yourself have feelings and get hurt in the process? Keep it on a light note and everyone is happy. And I doubt the girls don’t like it. Any girl you’re banging who is disappointed by your lack of feelings for her is an idiot. PUA-ing is about the thrill of the chase and the sex that ensues. Then you repeat it all over again with a new girl. No room for emotions to get in the way.


      • @NiteLily

        Could you please tell us some more about what PUA is about and how PUAs think and feel? Because as a PUA who knows a shit-load of PUAs, I definitely think that your opinion as someone who isn’t a PUA and has never studied PUA and who has the opposite genetilia from 99% of the people who are PUAs, must be completely and totally accurate and you should definitely feel like the most important smartest princess in the universe. Could you tell us how to build a space shuttle next? I’m sure you’re not a rocket scientist but your opinion on that is probably far more valuable than the opinions of rocket scientists.

        I love all the women I fuck, hell sometimes we even love to hate eachother lol. But 1) I can love more than one woman at a time and it doesn’t affect my feelings for the other women…you don’t love your mom less because you love your dad or love your daughter less because you love her sister or love your newborn baby less because you love your husband, that’s silly. And 2) I may love them for just a few hours or for the rest of their lives, there’s no specific amount of love you can have for people, and 3) I know that expressing that love has to be done in a very specific slow manner doled out in little doses here and there, to avoid blowing the relationship up and to keep a woman attracted for a longer period of time rather than blowing my love load all over her face at once (lol).


      • @ YaReally

        “I love all the women I fuck, hell sometimes we even love to hate eachother lol.”

        Yes, I believe you superficially love all women, otherwise you’d hold resentment for them, and you don’t seem to have any ill feelings in your writing about your conquests. So I think you are like a modernday Don Juan – you live to love women.

        “1) I can love more than one woman at a time and it doesn’t affect my feelings for the other women…”

        Please don’t spin. This is not the kind of love most of us think about when we say romantic love. Your love is superficial, not the kind of love that encourages exclusivity within a couple.

        “2) I may love them for just a few hours or for the rest of their lives, there’s no specific amount of love you can have for people,”

        Again, that’s not the kind of love we’re speaking about. You are just rationalizing now. Moreover, it’s interesting you said that. I like studying up on other religions besides Christianity. There is such a concept in Islam. When a man wants to take a woman sexually, he justifiers it by declaring her his wife temporarily. She can be his wife for a few months, weeks, or even a few days or hours and that gives him carte blanche to have sex with her. I think you’re engaging in something similar mentally, albeit you both enjoy the temporariness of it all. So I don’t want you to think you invented the wheel or anything here with your rationalizing. You can rationalize whatever you’re doing, any way you like. But you know full well it’s not what most of us mean when we say love or developing feelings for a woman. You feeling giddy about fucking a girl for an hour or two is not the love or feelings we’re speaking about.

        “3) I know that expressing that love has to be done in a very specific slow manner doled out in little doses here and there, to avoid blowing the relationship up and to keep a woman attracted for a longer period of time rather than blowing my love load all over her face at once (lol).”

        Well, why would you care about dispensing your love to her slowly and measurably so that she won’t take you for granted, if she is only someone you see for sex as you described in your other comments above? That doesn’t make any sense. After all, you yourself said that you keep the relationship causal enough that there is no need for a breakup. That means that in your type of relationship there is no need to have feelings dispensed slowly. You are not pretending to be dating these women. All you guys are doing together is having sex.

        I can understand statement 3) only if she was a girl that you wanted to have a full-fledged relationship with. Then for sure you don’t want to appear too needy and too attracted, instead you want to play it more cool so she can become attached to you. But with those girls you meet up and fuck, it’s all fun and games, and they even call you when they want to “hang out.”

        Additionally, I’m a little bit perplexed as to why you are trying to prove to me that you have feelings for these girls. As if you’re trying to say you’re not a bad guy or whatever. Do you really care what I think of you? And for the record, I don’t think anything bad in respect to you. I just think your lifestyle is not the best kind for a guy to live in perpetuity. It’s good for a few years to sew your wild oats. But eventually we all have to grow up. But eventually we all have to grow up. Also, boredom sets in and that leads to a lack of satisfaction. So I say, there is a time for everything, but you can’t do the same thing forever.


      • @NiteLily

        lol it’s REALLY frustrating to you when people (both men AND women) are happy 1) in ways you don’t approve of and 2) in ways you are not.

        Keep playing judge, jury and executioner with everyone else’s lives, it’s a lot less depressing than honestly objectively looking at your own lack of satisfaction you’re venting out here.


      • @YaReally

        I think you are misunderstanding me completely. In spite of it not being my cup of tea, I have said repeatedly that if this lifestyle makes one happy, that’s all that counts. At the end of the day it’s all about what gives you satisfaction.

        And, why do you even care what I think? You constantly sound hurt that I’m supposedly judging you too harshly.

        I don’t mean to hurt your feelings and I don’t mean to come across too judgmental, but you have to understand where I’m coming from. I am old-fashioned, so I like the scenario of the men leading the women (or gaming her) within an exclusive relationship or a marriages. I’m not much into casual sex, that’s why guys like you are not my cup of tea. But other than that, I have nothing against you. Actually, I think your comments are quite entertaining and you have lots valid points.

        On the other hand, it’s you who gets into arguments with anyone who doesn’t egg you on, or tells you it’s not their dream lifestyle. And it’s not just me; it’s lots of guys too who left this lifestyle and are in a marriage. Why don’t you tolerate their choices? Why you and the other PUAs constantly shame men who say they have found a decent woman and got married? You’re being pointless. If you’re going to help men and teach them game, then teach them whether they are dating lots of girls or they are in a marriage with one wife.

        Therefore, I think you need to chill out and stop getting upset with every comments you think is not flattering. Most of it is in your head.


      • “I doubt she’d want to see him if he really hurt her.”

        I’m certain Rhianna would agree with you. It’s amazing that the amount of time you spend here tou haven’t learned anything. Lol this is why smart guys ignore the advice of women when it comes to attracting them.


      • Dear Nitelily

        You’re correct, I am wrong and I am done, I rest my case not because i am wrong but because you seems to think (as in your world) that PUA’s have a stone for a heart, atleast feelings are not always love, tell me That what is it with women these days that In 10 years Marriage they think they are not “in love” anymore, were the “in love” when she was saying “I do” and why was it after 10 years in marriage that she found out that she is not “in love” anymore.

        Isn’t it funny that you claim PUA’s to be stone hearted, don’t have feelings, doesn’t feel pain, don’t have a heartbeat. cannot see the “so called” romantic love that women desire, WOW romantic love what is it all about? Does it involve sex or its asexual, i mean come on you are trying to paint a picture that you yourself never saw in real life or felt or imagined.


      • @Gamerp,

        “you seems to think (as in your world) that PUA’s have a stone for a heart, atleast feelings are not always love,”

        No, I think the opposite. You’re probably very sensitive, which is why you feel you need to protect yourself and your feelings from women. Women have power to hurt men, which is why you don’t want to find yourself being disrespected and devalued by a woman who is supposed to be loving, docile, and submissive.

        “tell me That what is it with women these days that In 10 years Marriage they think they are not “in love” anymore, were the “in love” when she was saying “I do” and why was it after 10 years in marriage that she found out that she is not “in love” anymore.”

        Was that your experience?

        “Does it involve sex or its asexual, i mean come on you are trying to paint a picture that you yourself never saw in real life or felt or imagined.”

        What is it with you PUAs spinning? Romantic love involves sex. No romantic love exists without sex. Now stop the bullshit. Either say something coherent, or say nothing at all. Both of you need to chill out.


      • Do you teach PUA’s how to fall in “Romantic Love” (It is the same love that is shown in Disney pictures right? Prince Charming loving the shoe of Cinderella and feel he is a foot fetish chump and falls in love with her feet.

        >No, I think the opposite. You’re probably very sensitive, which is why you feel you need to protect yourself and your feelings from women. Women have power to hurt men, which is why you don’t want to find yourself being disrespected and devalued by a woman who is supposed to be loving, docile, and submissive.

        Ohhhh, you have psychic senses i see, did you found out about that from 2 comments of mine? No man (I say leave mangina’s and beta boys) wants to be disrespected or devalued whether by a woman or a man, which is why they say that ‘Respect a man and a man will sacrifice everything for that’ but it seems you feel that only PUA’s are afraid of being disrespected and devalued, Will you Nitelily respect PUA’s and her future (If any) Husband.

        >Was that your experience?

        Way to go Smart (Not really) woman you totally blew the question without answering anything.

        >Romantic love involves sex. No romantic love exists without sex. Now stop the bullshit.

        Ohhh, Romantic love has described above, Prince Charming slaying dragons for Fiona or sleeping beauty.


      • @Gamerp

        You sound like an incoherent loser. I have no interest in responding to you anymore because you sound ridiculous and I don’t know WTF you want or what’s pissing you off, but you’re obviously pissed off. Like I said, you need to chill out. Please, refrain from responding to me. Thank you.


      • Okz I am done, your last comment made me chill out, Thanks for responding ONE LAST TIME.


      • “I already dumped my cum in you. You have no other use”


    • Good man, great response.


  19. At best, she just wants to thumb her nose at the ex by showing off her new beau.

    I suppose that’s a compliment, in that she thinks the new guy is better and that the old guy will see that the new guy’s better.

    But, if this is “at best”, you don’t need that kind of woman.


    • There’s no “at best” here. A girl who’s genuinely into a guy is not going to be interested in hanging out with some beta schlub ex (which by her standards he *has* to now be if she’s serious about her bf).

      Not only that, but according to him she’s repeatedly “pestering” him about it. All this proves is that her ex is on her mind. Since women are hypergamous not polygamous, there’s no reason for her to be stuck on her former beau unless she wants him. No, there’s no innocent explanation. Dump her now.


  20. The “Dear Woman” crowd, in “blog” format :


  21. on December 14, 2012 at 9:51 pm femininemystiquetwra

    Is this for real? Is the guy really asking about this? Just put your foot down. Seriously put her in her place(not necessarily beating), how hard is that to do he needs “game” advice. No offense but I find it ridiculous that he needs advice on how to handle this.But then again I do call my man master, however I still cannot believe such a common concern is being put on this blog.


    • Maybe you should go to a different blog then. We’re discussing shit men have to learn to handle here, no one cares how stupid you think it is or that you like clamps on your nipples. Get a Livejournal.


    • Your non-antagonistic self-expression, while reasonable, offends my sensibilities. You see, I come from the background of a deep deep loser, and therefore project my loser nature on all commenters herein who hold a different worldview than my own. Therefore, rather than address the valid point you make, I will shout you down through shit-talking: insert shit-talk here ___. In this way, rather than evolutionarily adding value to this conversation over time, I can insure that it remains stuck in the muck of the lowest common denominator of losers who are fixated on the RSD worldview. Please don’t post here again unless your post is accompanied by RSD youtube videos.


      • Lol bro please just stop.

        Give us actual legit advice on how to get from point A to point B. either that or go see a shrink and get your issues fixed.

        Listen, find a new handle to post under because whenever we see AVD we simply skip the rest of your comment.


    • “Seriously put her in her place(not necessarily beating)”

      lol thanks for clearing that up




    • Twerps are cute, like little scat packages on the carpet. Your comment is legitimate. Why not just put her in her place (hold the boundaries of your own reality)? This approach is much more efficient than the vagaries of “game.”

      “I find it ridiculous that he needs advice on how to handle this.” A reasonable observation. If one’s testosterone is flowing freely, then why should one need youtube clips of someone else to figure this out? Obviously, they do, hence this blog. But to point out the redundancy of it is fair, and not deserving of sniveling loser snark. Better to post an RSD youtube clip to school us all.


      • brb going to a pregnancy message board and posting “why do you girls all bitch about birthing pain, god, just take some Advil that’s what I do when I have a sprained ankle. My wife didn’t have a problem with the pain it’s ridiculous you girls are even exchanging advice about this lol” and expecting anyone to waste effort engaging me in a rational discussion.

        Thank god you’re here to point out what a meany-pants I am.


      • Some women prepare themselves for natural childbirth and have no painful complications during the event. Others experience pain. To the extent that women could pursue a healthy natural approach to experiencing a minimal-pain birth, wouldn’t that be preferable for her? If that’s not possible, then a preventative discussion is also surely beneficial. For the ones that must go through a painful birth, then, yes, a conversation about those issues involved is helpful and useful (though it’s not the exclusive conversation). However, not all are intent on putting themselves through pain. Some would prefer prevention, and reasonably so. A preventative discussion is as valuable, if not more valuable, than a diagnostic discussion.


  22. “why do you want to see your ex?”

    Why not this? How is this “beta”?


    • Malcolm X might not be a favorite of the HBD’ers, but he was right about this:

      ““Never ask a woman about other men. Either she’ll tell a lie, and you still won’t know, or if she tells you the truth, you might not have wanted to hear it in the first place.”

      The only advice here is to ditch the ho.


      • @Balaeniceps: Nice quote. I didn’t know Malcolm X talked about that stuff too.

        And to address the quote, this is why no man should ask a woman how many men she’s been with. I personally wouldn’t want to know since I don’t want to think any less of her than I already do.


    • It’s pointless to ask such a question. If the girl wants to her ex, she will. She’s not worried about you at that point and it makes no sense to try to change her mind. You’re gonna come off as if you’re supplicating to her.

      Point is when a girl tells you she’s gonna do this, the relationship should pretty much be over.


    • Never ask questions to a woman. Statements only.

      Okay you can ask them what time it is…even then take it with a grain of salt.


  23. It’s better to just dump her although I know that’s hard for a lot of guys to do. I didn’t have the guts to end it with my last gf for 2 weeks until I finally just said “fuck it…”

    I had to do it and dudes themselves should do it more often.


    • Yup, ace. Beautiful women are a dime a dozen. Keepers? Hey, that’s a different commodity altogether. I don’t suffer fools gladly — check that, I don’t suffer fools AT ALL. But a keeper who’s having a bad day gets much more slack from me, until they do something which demonstrates that they’re not one. CH talks a lot about pointless women, not so much about the fish worth NOT throwing back, but it makes a difference.


      • on December 15, 2012 at 9:59 am Holden Caulfield

        Physical appearance is a woman’s #1 SMV attribute. Her commodity. Beautiful women eventually hit the wall and become part of the dime a dozen community. Its the sad reality we all deal with. That’s why game makes hotter, younger women an attractive option. The whole “keeper” concept reeks of white knighting and/or trolling. Yes, you will lose a few of the better women, but the other reality is there always another one waiting to be picked up. Its a pro/con reality when you have experience with women.


      • Except you won’t hold YOUR value forever. It’s not beta to accept that a sweet beautiful girl is better than a bitchy beautiful girl.


      • on December 15, 2012 at 1:10 pm Holden Caulfield

        “It’s not beta to accept that a sweet beautiful girl is better than a bitchy beautiful girl.” Stop the strawman bs and pay attention to the CH archives and comments from the regulars (e.g., YaReally). Having attractive options is what makes you alpha, not being worried about your own value. Are you an alpha male? Then you will always have value. Try not to be so dense or such a hater.


      • Aaand if you want to have kids, and functional family? Also if you want somebody that would cook, wash, take care of your kids while you work/getting up on the societal ladder?
        How’s about that?

        Also wouldn’t you like to have somebody that you know. Somebody that you know is on your side, who you can trust – of course only because you know she already invested in relationship with you much time and effort, and because she sucks your game hard?

        I care shit who is, or how should archetypical Alpha male look like. that’s a principle, and i stopped to live for principles.
        I know what i like, and I know what i want and so i’m going to obtain it.
        What matters only are the things that are useful on the way to that desired point.

        YaReally is surely alpha, but is he necessarily the embodiment of Alpha male in all of it’s purest form? C’mon.

        Instead it is more logical that criteria of Alpha male are Charisma, societal savvyness influence, resourcefulness, dominance, persistence, and other traits that make you successful in life/get you what you want.


      • “YaReally is surely alpha, but is he necessarily the embodiment of Alpha male in all of it’s purest form?”

        Obviously. lol


      • “Obviously!”

        It seems that this is not clear to everyone.


      • Your inability to distinguish keepers from sex toys is what allows a woman’s beauty to act as the primary determinant of her SMV. If you’re a slave to beauty, then you’re her bitch. It’s as simple as that.

        I have walked away from a 10 who very much wanted me to fuck her silly on a regular basis. Why? Because she bored the ever-loving SHIT out of me. I did another woman, not fat, but oh, man, classic butterface, probably a solid 4, until my balls hurt. Why? Because like a lot of women who can’t just coast on a pretty face, she was FUN, in *and* out of the sack.

        If you think the keeper/sex-toy distinction is trolling, then man, your life around women must suck. Hate to be you, dude.


      • btw – I don’t think I’m doing all that bad in the “this hottie brings me my coffee” department, either.


      • “The whole “keeper” concept reeks of white knighting and/or trolling. Yes, you will lose a few of the better women, but the other reality is there always another one waiting to be picked up.”

        I don’t want to speak for happycrow, but I think you’re missing his point. What if he doesn’t want to keep picking up? It’s OK for some men who do want to be perpetual PUAs forever, or at least for a long time, but what if a man got tired of that lifestyle and wants something more lasting, why does that “reek of white knighting and/or trolling”?

        You and him are comparing apples to oranges. You guys are talking about hos, and he is talking about marriage-material women. They are not the same. Therefore, if his woman told him this stuff he’d get very angry and rightfully so. It will probably cause some hesitation in his trust for her. Unless, he can honestly determine that it’s a shit test and just a cry for him to be more alpha with her. In that case, he can try throwing his weight around and see if that squashes her “request.” If not, then they have issues that can cause the end of the relationship, since it’s inappropriate to hang out with an ex if you’re in a serious relationship.

        I can’t see why it’s beta to settle down with a good women and have a family. It’s a beta only if the girl is a worthless ho that can’t be taken seriously. And I don’t think that being a PUA who won’t allow himself to fall in love because he wants to continue PUA-ing forever makes one an alpha. It makes one a PUA, which is a choice. You guys keep shaming men that want to get married and raise children within a marriage, not within some PUA arrangement that she has your kids while you are continuing to gallivant and picking up hundreds of girls a year until you turn 60-65 and your sex drive diminish.

        You are comparing two kinds of lifestyle and both of them can be either beta or alpha, it depends on how you carry yourself. The man himself is in charge of making his relationship beta-based or alpha-based. A marriage can still be an alpha-based lifestyle.


      • NiteLily,

        That’s fairly well-put.
        I married a gal who hadn’t dated, so “situation does not apply,” but we’re, to quote judgybitch, monogamISH rather than classic-exclusive. I *have* a mistress/lover in another city, and the only time my wife gives me flak about that is when I miss said gal’s birthday (which I did this year, bad me). By CH standards, pretty alpha, right? If my wife stumbled onto a guy who revved her motor THAT hard, she’d tell me, and I’d say yes/no based on whether I thought it was random entertainment or a relationship threat. If I don’t trust her good taste and judgment, after all, why did I marry her. By CH standards, that’s pretty hopeless beta, right?

        If my wife were to get hit by a bus, I could have my bed warm and coffee served hot in about a week. In CH-ville, that’s solid alpha. I also happen to value this woman highly – she’s pretty, got a Ph.D. in a field I actually happen to publish in and give a shit about, and she enjoys cooking (which is great for me, as a guy who’s done everything there is to do in a restaurant but wasn’t about to be a damn chef — too much work)! Oops, that’s “one true love” business, hopelessly beta.

        “Pfft,” I say. Let everybody define game how they want to. Mine is “do you understand women and now how to life the life you want to?”


      • Gah, CH eated my reply.
        Bluntly, yes. I got shit to do, and don’t have time to constantly be trolling bars/clubs/whatever for a lay. I get laid whenever I want, and don’t happen to see that as a problem. If he thinks that’s beta, hey, whatever. But far as I’m concerned, game is about understanding women and building the life you want. If HIS definition is different, hey, it’s a ymmv world.


      • happycrow, You sound like you lead a satisfying life. And that’s all that counts at the end of the day. It’s about satisfaction.

        “Pfft,” I say. Let everybody define game how they want to. Mine is “do you understand women and now how to life the life you want to?””

        And that’s exactly it. The man himself is in control of how he wants his relationship to develop, and he alone can make it alpha-based. That’s why we say the man should lead the woman in the relationship. I think you are right – that’s game in of itself. So what if you are not practicing it on a multitude of females? You choose on whom to practice it, and if it’s only on a wife and a “mistress” – so be it.

        Just one question though, from what you wrote I picked up that you wouldn’t mind if your wife told you she needed to try out one time another guy? Did I get that right?


      • Short answer: if I didn’t trust her good taste and judgment, why on earth would I have married her? I have occasionally told her point-blank to go for it; she demurs, but the point stands. I’m many things, and many of them bad — hypocrite isn’t one of them.


  24. I feel weary. What is the point, honestly. Women are just farm animals. Who could be fcuked dealing with them.

    Reading articles like this, it just makes me want to cauterize the part of my brain that makes me need and want women.

    They aren’t even worth the effort.


  25. as an ex told me when she cheated on her bf with me (they were fighting). “you’re not a slut if you sleep with an ex. you’re just recycling dick.”

    i broke up with her after 3 months of dating…….fucking her.


  26. For whorefinder…


  27. on December 15, 2012 at 11:16 am Full-Fledged Fiasco

    O. T.: Unpedestalling Women.


  28. Totally O/T:

    I was reading some reports about Adam Lanza, the mass-murderer who killed the students & staff at the Sandy Hill Elementary School and then killed himself.

    The news reports stated others described him as “intelligent, but nervous and fidgety;” that he “avoided attention;” that he suffered from a personality disorder and lived with his mother; and finally, that he was “intelligent, nerdy, goth, remote, thin.” There’s also an undated photo of the guy and he isn’t what the high school skanks would look for in their homecoming king or Football Hero.

    Sadly, I wasn’t surprised when I read these descriptions. I don’t want to speculate, but he sounds like the Columbine murderers and the VA Tech killer: an introverted, omega ectomorph. The kind of guy ignored by society and who isn’t going to get any action. There are enough guys like that in the world who go through life, and who don’t snap, so the blame does rest with Lanza and his messed-up moral sense, but the profile “fit” just disturbs me.

    But never mind all this. I’m just thinking while that gigantic Jabba-the-Hutt-like mass of quivering fat Jerrold Nadler is blaming it on the NRA.


    • Yep, another Aspie goes postal. This kid was doomed – Aspie, bizarre, lived with his mother, no father around. Nobody to help him learn how to appreciate people and interact with them. Little chance of ever getting laid. Doomed


      • Is this the only discussion in the manosphere about this so far?

        This deserves its own post.

        The mother of the 20 year old male shooter (forget the theories that there were 3 shooters coming from Mankow) was getting $200k per year in alimony plus she got the family mansion.

        The father who left 4 years ago, seems to have battled the mother about how to deal with the introverted child and left in exasperation when the kid was 16 and hadn’t seen him at all since the kid was 18.

        If we establish that the mother was “over protective” and was fine with him playing WoW in his bedrooms (she gave him two to live in), she’d still be to blame for not caring for him in his best interest but more in an emasculating feminist “control of a male” interest.

        I mean, seriously, with $17k per month coming in and knowing he was an aspie, she could have easily bought him some company once she decided that he could live with her in that mansion instead of being forced to go have an apartment of his own or forced to join the military.

        She not only could have had strippers over constantly, she could have bought some of his less prosperous classmates.

        Note that, in Connecticut, the feminists have made solicitation a felony on the part of the male and the mother could have been arrested as a pimp if she had tried to arrange paid companionship for her adult son.

        These ectomorph school killers all seem to come from politically correct households in a feminist matriarchal society.

        That she didn’t do any of this caused her death. He killed her first. 4 bullets in the head while she was sleeping.

        That $200k per month stays in the father’s wallet now. The empty house should be sold to help the victims still alive.


      • Interesting notion. There is a great piece over at Taki’s Mag showing how so many of these mass shooters were on pharmaceuticals. It would be very interesting to see how many of them lived in female-led households or in “progressive” households.


  29. How about (and this could apply to a lot of situations, and notice it’s a statement and not a question) saying in a curious but slightly unconcerned way: “Seems to me that either means there’s a problem with us or a character problem with you. I wonder which.” Another rule of thumb is to think about what you would say if it were a woman you didn’t care that much about – no special treatment.


  30. sounds something like my situation. girl i was dating a year and really liked, during a rough patch, mentioned “going to africa next month to fuck a lot of guys”. i already knew she had an africa fetish (she did humanitarian work there and constantly talked about the country), and figured she hooked up with locals before we were together, but saying this stuff crossed the line. i’m sure her mother would of been proud.

    she also said this in front of other people who she didn’t know very well, jeopardizing her personal and professional reputation. my theory is this: her motive was to demonstrate high value by showing she was ‘desirable’ by being able to have sex with whomever she wanted (she leaned feminists, can you tell?). this works for dudes, not for girls.

    her comment made me peg her as low value and totally destroyed whatever attraction i had for her. even if she was bluffing, saying that shit to me while another person was in the room showed no class, poor judgement, and that she would use scorched earth manipulation tactics to get her way.

    and did i mention i really liked this girl? broke up with her a month later. it was fcking hard and i still miss her at times, but i think i did the right thing.


    • Her mother probably would have been proud. It’s her father who would’ve been heartbroken, if he was in her life enough to care one way or the other.


    • HIV is everywhere over there dude… Don’t go near this one with someone else’s Johnson…. Ditch her like the 2-bit whore she is…

      [Heartiste: THe odds of catching HIV from a woman are very very low. It is predominantly a gay and needle user disease.]


    • God damn. That’s me. Perfect description of my high-school self. Overprotective mom and all.

      If I hadn’t manned up and learned how to talk to women, God knows what I’d do.


  31. Here’s a LTR situation for ya’ll weooo~!!

    There’s 2 clubs and one restaurant that’s owned by the same guy. He’s pulling a contest where he will be taking 8 people from the big club, 2 ppl from the smaller lounge (where I & gf work) and 2 from the restaurant.

    Remember those golden stars you got in school if you did something good? That’s what we will be doing here. Starting in the New Year (trip is March break to Mexico) they will put a board up, whoever has the most stars after a month (work ethic etc etc) wins.

    Anyfuckingwho, the reason why I know this is because my gf came into my work yesterday all tits n giddy saying I have a really good chance of winning this trip to Mexico omg1!!

    I’m like, what trip? explain? So she tells me (without telling me that you have to ‘earn’ your way – not just a random draw) and I go without hesitation saying “that’s great babe, but just know if you go, I won’t be here when you get back.” She balked a bit, and made a really fucked excuse by saying if so and so goes they can keep an eye on me! (I’m paraphrasing but I’m callin spade a spade here)

    So here we are – this fucking trip is inevitable – bitch will win regardless, they need a hot blonde bar slut with low self esteem for parties etc, which is her.

    Clearly what I told her (I’ll leave you if you go without me) hasn’t registered in her 20yr old hamster, as just last night, and I’m sure tonight, she couldn’t fucking help herself not talk about the contest/trip and that she’ll hopefully win and “what if we both win!?!?!”….

    This is impending fucking doom. This bitch will be a disposable cum rag for 4 nights and 5 days over there, not to mention the drugs. She’s crazy about me, but that doesn’t mean shit these days.

    Here’s the kick: bitch clearly doesn’t care – why should I?


    • she has obviously been downgraded to the status of fuck buddy, hasn’t she? life goes on.


    • “She’s crazy about me, but that doesn’t mean shit these days.”

      Sorry to tell you, but if she was really crazy about you, she couldn’t go on a trip without you.


    • You’re the crazy one for GFing up some bitch like that.
      Next time, keep in mind two words: “Fuck buddy”.


    • If you can handle it, downgrade her to fuck budy without her noticing. Don’t go looking for her, let her come to you, fuck her and then leave her.
      At best she will be your fuck budy.

      If you like her however, you should call her in and talk to her clearly:

      You should tell her that you vallue “your girls” too much to allow them to go on such a trip, and without any neediness, you anounce that you will not know for sure what will happen in Mexico and that you will be put in an unpleasent situation.

      You say that the question is not you trusting her or not, it’s not what’s going to happen in Mexico (because you’re confident, you’re not worried your girl will fuck other guys because you’re that alpha, even if you’re not and you know she will fuck, don’t let it show).

      The problem is you do not allow your girls to put yourself in such an unpleasent situation. You are mad because she put you in this situation and you were expecting a more elevated level from her.

      Act naturally – not buthurt – as if she was dumb she hadn’t notice this situation is unpleasent to you.

      Even if she goes to Mexico and nothing happens, it’s unpleasent to you she is so thrilled to leave you and go to Mexico (because it’s stupid whatever she’ll be doing there). Then proceed to tell her that you had been planning a great trip to Mexico with her, the best trip ever, it’s a lie, just search something make a skech of a trip and let her imagination roam. Inspire her.

      Make her believe you have a better alternative you were working on to take her to Mexico and that she being all happy to go with you is… unpleasent.

      You have to be somewhat alpha to pull this out. But also sensitive. Don’t be sad or insecure to her face. Just make her understand the following:

      1) She is putting you in an unpleasent situation and you are surprised she did this. Thus, you’re thinking about leaving her because you don’t want to be with a girl who puts you so easily in such an unpleasent situation;

      2) You dispise her a little now because now you realised she is kind of dumb/futile/stupid for not realising she’s putting you in an unpleasent situation and for wanting so badly to go to Mexico on a stupid shit:

      3) Mexico is special because you were planing the best trip ever to go there with her. It can be a lie and you don’t have to pull this trip out, just make her believe you had been working on it and you really mean to go and make it special.
      3,1) Temprer it with a whisper: “It’s just like that girl I liked when she was 10… she wanted a pidgeon and I bought her a pidgeon but then she had recieved a cat and then she didn’t vallue my pidgeon”. DON’T BE SAD ABOUT IT, just make it like the world is out to get you, is fucking unfair, you’re better than the world and girls are stupid. Joke about it and laugh it out but be mildly annoyed by the occorence.
      3,2) Work on a better story because the pidgeon/cat story is not convinving enough lol

      4) Conclude that because she is merely thinking of going and putting you on such an unpleasent situation, she’s not “the girl for me… and I pitty that because you were so cool/pretty whatever”. Then, INSTIL DREAD by getting apart from her and looking consternated in her presence.


    • Said like a champ but you missed something out if really she is such a hot blonde bar slut why would you need her as a GF when you can just have some sexual sessions with her and off to another hoe.


    • lol it’s your fault how it turned out, not hers. She just reacted to your lack of authority/discipline. You Nexted without actually Nexting her.

      “that’s great babe, but just know if you go, I won’t be here when you get back.”

      followed by:

      “as just last night, and I’m sure tonight, she couldn’t fucking help herself not talk about the contest/trip”

      …why the fuck are you talking to her? lol

      “Clearly what I told her (I’ll leave you if you go without me) hasn’t registered in her 20yr old hamster”

      It didn’t register because your ultimatum didn’t carry any weight because you didn’t walk away or kick her out right there:

      Also see 3 minutes into this video:

      You basically pulled the equivalent of:

      (dad driving a car): “If you kids don’t settle down I’m turning this car around RIGHT NOW.”
      (kids): “(not settling down)”

      Now she knows when you give her ultimatums like that, that you don’t REALLY mean it and she can weasel around it and basically your word/rules mean shit and she’ll know in the future that she can keep breaking them.


  32. Loved that video about the dwarf-jock. He really is making the best of being dealt a bad set of cards. On the other hand. it is a lot like watching womens basketball.
    Slightly off topic: To stop school-shootings put armed guards in schools. That would cost about 2% of all the other ideas being bandied about and would actually solve the problem. There are places that do this and it actually prevents this shite.


  33. “You can take this to the bank: A girlfriend who want to hang out with an ex does so for only two reasons.
    1. She wants to fuck her ex.
    2. She is manipulating you for fun and profit.”

    There may be other reasons.
    3. In an effort to appear and feel desirable, women exaggerate their relationships. Her ex may not have been a bf at all. He could have been a friend or some other girl’s bf.
    4. She is curious about the wife. Naturally. It is part of their DNA. Women check out other women.
    5. In the end, you may need to dump her. First, try to train her. If not for you, for the next guy. In my experience, younger women need training, especially in how to be feminine, including how to not say things that damage their relationships.


  34. Alpha?

    She’s trying so hard to get him to compliment her. He’s just like ehhh how do I get around this haha.


  35. Before I truly understood game, i had this situation. Girl I was seeing exchanging cards with a dude in front of me. He’s clearly desperately orbiting.

    I went mental. She was Chinese. I had never displayed any sort of anger.

    She was extremely regretful. I dumped her a short time later.

    She continues to apologize to this day.

    I think the prescribed approach works best.

    In my case this one and another where my ex-gf invited some dude to a party and I went mental on her were kind of shit tests.

    I think in my case the girls wanted to get a rise and I felt like just blowing up.

    I wouldn’t recommend this to anyone but in the two specific cases I mention I read that the situation dictated that I completely go nuclear, berate and browbeat these girls because they wanted to be put in their place doing something they knew would piss me off.

    In the case of ex #1, she is still always hanging out, I game her but I’ve put her in my Friendzone.

    In case of ex #2 she’s also in my Friendzone with the distinction that this girl cannot do enough for me: gifts, various favours, anything i ask for she’ll rearrange her schedule to accommodate.

    So not sure how this would be categorized. In both cases I believe i was cool and aloof and these flashes of rare anger somehow provided a kind of “comfort” for them.


  36. Gold… especially that third paragraph.


  37. Downgrade her to fuckbuddy status and go beasting… find other bitches. No point of getting rid of her if your already banging her, that would just be your ego talking.


  38. text her she’s a cool girl and you hope you can somehow remain friends.


  39. I dont know what to comment here because not only is she begging to meet the ex but she is desperate SO FUCKING DUMB you can be to not see the red flags.

    The solution: Say “no” or just fucking find other ass doll and leave her to mourn and scream for the ex she “desperately” wants to hang out with, really its not rocket science she is “with” you but she “thinks” of him all the time. Its not your fault because women are like that (and before any womyn jumps on me for saying that I AM JUST GENERALIZING so cool your hamster down ‘let him rest after a long day at the spinning wheel’).


    • on December 16, 2012 at 11:51 pm Rumpole Stilskin

      Had this situation about three times with the same girl. After the first time I was already in the mindset that it was going nowhere and just wanted to have her over for some easy pussy (I was working long hours at the time and didn’t have time to go out), plus she was filthy and I had some things to tick of my list.

      I don’t think saying “no” is a good answer, she’ll see it as controlling and being scared to loose her. Yeah she’ll probably stick around for a while before she dumps you for him. I found success three times with “you’re a big girl now, time to put on you’re big girl panties and make your own decisions” when I was asked for permission.

      In the end I dumped her at 2am after she decided to bite me for refusing to kiss her on her birthday because she smelt like salami.


  40. Just dump her man. Find another


  41. OT, but is there such a thing as beta rage? Thinking about the Connecticut shootings.


    • Yes, I’d say that there is. “Beta Rage” is what happens when a clueless Beta realizes he’s been played for his entire life by everyone around him, including those that he trusted to protect, guide and look out for him (think parents, siblings, teachers, etc).

      If he’s a genuinely decent person, it will take the form of Calm Fury, before he either learns the real score and adjusts accordingly or resigns himself to a life of being society’s Butt Monkey. If he’s not a genuinely decent person ….. well public shootings are on the rise …


  42. Hey Heartiste…

    Latest school shooting…

    Can you say Reichstag fire?


  43. Checking in…huge step backwards. I’m noticing more and more that state control is probably my biggest problem. It’s weird, I’m starting to view social interactions the same way I view poker hands…just trying to find, then fix leaks and maximize EV, lol.

    Anyway, had a party for a friend of my social group’s over the weekend, and — now that I’m aware of the manosphere — I kinda realize that this friend of ours, in the way she acts toward me, doesn’t respect me as a man. I never really noticed before, but now that I’m paying attention, it’s very strange. I mean, this was just a friendly interaction, so I’m not trying to ‘game’ hardcore or anything, but I am trying to at least present more of a confident persona.

    So we’re at this bar, sitting at two tables, and I’m having a long, fun chat with these three girls who are also in the social circle, but more distant from the core group. But almost every damned time I make a successful joke or get the attention of everyone in a positive way, frenemy is sure to talk shit. Like, without fail. And then, I notice that the stuff she’s saying sort of mirrors the one-off critiques I got the other night — it always boils down to something like ‘you’re gay’ ‘your outfit sucks,’ and then something along the lines of being a snob — which flat-out isn’t true, everyone I know says I’m one of the most down-to-earth people they’ve met. She teases all the guys in the group, but from her to me it’s way different. I attempt to use the whole ‘two second alpha stare’ on her remarks….which PISSES her off even more! Eventually, she actively starts trying to get the other girls around her in on the shit talking.

    At this point, I kinda break and start reacting way more. Not in an angry way, but you know…like…in that way where I’m somehow justifying myself. I count the experience as a good thing though, because slowly I’m starting to see that these skills apply to most every area of life. So much of how you’re treated seems to boil down to how people perceive your SMV to be.

    Office Holiday Party at the Club

    Setting is simple — we get a booth at a pretty nice club. When we get there my plan is to just hang out with the work group for like half an hour to hour before peeling off to hit on EVERY hot girl in the club. I know it’s going to be an uphill battle because the club is a country-ish club (line dancing on the floor, but lots of normal club music mixed in with the country music), and I ain’t a cowboy. So….at the dinner beforehand I had two budlights. At the club, while hanging out with the office, I had a like one and a half vodka orangejuices. I dunno what happened, but I felt like I got hit by a tranq dart. Not drunk, not buzzed, just tranquilized.

    But, I managed to stick to the plan — somewhat — and make two approaches. The first approach was at the bar and consisted of ‘hey!’ (energy level way too high), and hb 8 nodding with an ‘wwwtttfff’ smile ‘uhhh hey!’ My mind was foggy so I said something stupid about seeing some lady trip in the middle of the line dancing. And she was like ‘what?! No way…’ And then I nodded (way too fast, so eager to get approval!) ‘Yeah, I helped her up…’ Now she turns toward me ‘wow that was really nice of you.’ Before I can think of anything to say….this big guy comes to the bar and puts his arm around her. Inward wince, I give it up almost immediately.

    I see a legit hb 9 with two lady friends — probably a 5 and 4 respectively — just standing near the dancefloor, watching, and I walk up to them and say ‘hey, how are you guys doing?’ I was feeling kinda shitty over the last set and pretty much made the approach a cheesy pickup line. One of the friends looked — the 4 — and said, ‘we’re fine.’ But she said it dismissively. And at that point, I just gave it up for the night.

    So…..I think really, I just need to nail down this ‘irrational self-confidence at all times’ thing.


    • I dropped a massive response to your other Field Report as a Reply to:

      Should show up today sometime when WordPress decides it loves me again and finally shows it lol

      I got work to do right now but I’ll give this one a breakdown too. An off night sucks, but don’t worry, nothing you’ve written in this Field Report or the last is unfixable, even though it usually feels pretty demoralizing/hopeless when you’re playing the night back in your head without a clear idea of what’s happening or how to fix it.

      This is why on PUA boards we write Field Reports, they’re not about bragging (well, some guys’ are lol), they’re so other PUAs can chime in with fresh unemotional 3rd-person perspectives and go “here’s where you went wrong, man! (explain explain explain) Get it? Next time try Such and Such!” and help get the guy heading down a path to fixing his sticking points.

      A large combination of men passionately working together toward a single goal is pretty fucking powerful. I think that’s part of what freaks the blue pill crowd out about pickup, like “o shit the menz are pulling down the curtain and we can’t stop it!! quick, demonize them in the MSM so no one pays attention!!” Like Leiningen watching the ants sacrifice their bodies as bridges in the water ditch so the other ants can crawl over them…”o shit, they’re organized now” lol


      • Lol. Yeah, I mean…I can tell that I have a long way to go. But, another thing I’ve gained is mad respect for a few of my friends. I think I’m lucky to be in a social circle of well-connected, cool guys that make a point of randomly approaching women.

        But these posts you leave, like I said, are awesome! Blending this with poker again, I had a moment where I was frustrated with having analyzed a hand wrong. Just, really annoyed. And, as I was talking about it….I just ignored the impulse to quiet my emotions and how I felt. Instead, I was just like ‘well, I guess I’m fucking wrong here man…I just really hate being wrong when I analyze shit, it pisses me right the fuck off.” While it’s just an outburst I allowed myself to have, and yeah, it’s revealing vulnerability to a friend…I feel like that’s a good thing. And I feel like this ‘game’ stuff is pushing me in that direction.


      • The direction is just one of being more human…realizing that it’s better to act out, even if it’s unmanaged and weird (at first) than holding back your emotions and who you are.


      • Yup, you’ve got it!

        “as I was talking about it….I just ignored the impulse to quiet my emotions and how I felt. Instead, I was just like ‘well, I guess I’m fucking wrong here man…I just really hate being wrong when I analyze shit, it pisses me right the fuck off.” While it’s just an outburst I allowed myself to have, and yeah, it’s revealing vulnerability to a friend…I feel like that’s a good thing.”

        Good stuff. That’s what I’m talking about in this post where your actual Identity is just shackled up right now, and that it might surprise you down the road when you start seeing who you REALLY are:

        Guys and girls are usually surprised at how open a book I am with people I’ve just met. I’ll show all sorts of vulnerabilities and hold up my weaknesses for people to see, it’s all good to me. That’s just expressing who I am and people appreciate authenticity…and once you show them “look at my faults, we don’t have to pretend we’re perfect here, I won’t judge you if you don’t judge me” they’re almost relieved to be able to take off the mask for a bit and share their own faults and beliefs and feelings with me and you build a real legitimate connection with the person instead of a surface level one that a lot of people have.

        This is part of why people who hang out with me feel like they’ve known me for years. They’ share stuff with me that only their closest best friends t know about them so it feels like we know eachother the way they know their closest best friends they’ve spent years building a relationship with, except I’ve only known them for a couple hours.

        This whole authentic expression thing is REALLY powerful in the high-end social circles, where everyone is full of shit trying to impress eachother and put on some bravado and try to look perfect and flawless. Everyone’s sipping their wine all “yes, this wine is quite exquisite!” (meanwhile they don’t even LIKE drinking wine) and then I come in and shit all over the social etiquette in a charismatic fun way and show them that tonight, right here and right now, it’s okay to be retarded, and next thing you know those wine and cheese types are doing hooter-shooters of JD off the waitress’ tits with me, relieved to be able to let down their mask and really be themselves lol

        Compare that to if I tried to throw on a suit and play the wine and cheese discussion game and run around in the “let’s try to impress everyone” rat race that I can’t possibly win because it’s all bullshit posturing to begin with. I suck them into my frame instead of letting them suck me into theirs…Strongest frame always wins. 🙂

        “But, another thing I’ve gained is mad respect for a few of my friends. I think I’m lucky to be in a social circle of well-connected, cool guys that make a point of randomly approaching women. ”

        You have no IDEA how lucky that is lol I ran solo game for years not because I wanted to but because I didn’t know any guys who wanted to go out and pick up, or any guys that were cool enough to actually keep up with the shit I was learning to do. I knew plenty of guys who’d stand around at the bar critiquing the hotness level of the girls that go by without actually talking to any of them lol It’s only the past couple years that I’ve had access to a solid core group of buddies who like to hit on girls at the bar. Going out solo tightened up my game a lot but man do I not miss it lol


    • on December 17, 2012 at 11:20 am RappaccinisDaughter

      Scenario #1–“frenemy”
      Has she always talked to you this way? Or is this new?

      I ask because I have guy friends and when we hang out it’s just nothing but ball-busting all day. I don’t mean anything by it.


      • She’s always teased me. I mean, I’m not saying that she’s actually a frenemy. I’m just saying that it seems indicative of a larger ‘she doesn’t respect me on a prime level that a man needs to be respected on, if he’s going to start slaying some poon,’ problem. While she rips on other guys in the group, it’s different…doesn’t come from the same place.


    • My posts still haven’t shown up yet (sigh), so check the last couple articles in a day or two for a shitload of knowledge bombs being dropped in your face lol. Anyway, now on to this one, which will probably make more sense after you read the one that hasn’t shown up yet…if this one shows up, fuck it, who knows what you’ll get to read and when! lol

      “I’m noticing more and more that state control is probably my biggest problem.”

      That’ll stick around for a while. I recommend working on one or two things at a time, and state control is a pretty big one to tackle and the easiest time TO tackle it is when you have a solid foundation going. ie – if being internally validated involves having a “delusional sense of coolness” and fully believing you’re awesome, it’s a lot easier to do that when you’ve picked a few girls up or really nailed your body language down or achieved your workout goals etc. and have something you can logically base that on. This all depends on the type of learning method you resonate with and how hardcase a newbie you are and what your goals are, etc.

      Viewing it like you view maximizing poker hands means you’re probably a pretty rational/analytical guy and you’ll probably do well with the analytical/strategic approach to this (VS the drill sergeant style “Man up and get in there you pussy!!” stuff that’s popular in the community these days). It honestly might not be the fastest route for getting quick results, but a slower learning strategy that you feel comfortable and in control with is a lot better than a faster learning strategy that feels like you’re just riding a roller-coaster hoping something useful sticks in your brain.

      “I kinda realize that this friend of ours, in the way she acts toward me, doesn’t respect me as a man.”

      Welcome to seeing The Matrix around you. 🙂 You’re going to notice a lot of stuff like this where you’re like “wow, how did I not notice this before? It’s so obvious now!!” I see a lot of stuff in people’s personalities/actions that my normal non-gamer friends are completely oblivious to, and it’s like a flashing neon sign to me. It can give you a minor feeling of omnipotence at times, which feels pretty good…like when you know you have the nuts in poker and that the other guy has no idea he can’t possibly have the hand he’s trying to bluff lol

      “But almost every damned time I make a successful joke or get the attention of everyone in a positive way, frenemy is sure to talk shit. Like, without fail.”

      Okay so here’s an unfortunate reality that trying to learn game will shove in your face: The people around you (even your BEST friends and family) don’t necessarily want you to become better (or more accurately they don’t want you to “change”). There are a few reasons for it and they’re not necessarily malicious, they’re just like, human nature basically:

      1) “Crabs in a bucket” syndrome, where if you have a bunch of crabs in a bucket and one starts crawling out, the others will pull him back down so they’re all stuck there together. This is like when one guy in a group of burnout pot-head buddies cuts out the pot so he can go to law school, and his buddies are all “you’ve changed man, why are you selling out like this, you used to be cool”.

      Part of the reason people do this is that you’re fucking with their life (ie – someone they relied/counted on to play a certain role in their life is leaving that role and they feel a lack of control because of it which is scary), part of it is jealousy (ie – how come HE gets to succeed, he’s supposed to be our group loser, or he’s supposed to be like me and I’m not going to succeed so it’s not fair that he gets to succeed and I don’t and since I’m not going to put in the effort to come up to his level, I need to bring him back down to my level), part of it is that you working on yourself and getting success forces them to look at their own lack of success (ie – two fat friends, one works out constantly and gets in shape and the other one actively resents them for it because seeing them working out is a reminder that they don’t have the motivation/discipline to work out and change themselves too, so the in-shape guy’s success rubs the fat guy’s failure in their face), and part of it is that people don’t like having to re-label something (ie – you’re the shy quiet nerdy one, that they can count on to be shy quiet and nerdy…then you start being out-going loud and dressing cool. Well we can’t have THAT, or I’ll have to re-evaluate who you are as a person and re-label you, and I’ve already handled labelling you 10 years ago when we met and I’m used to that label, I don’t want to have to look at you different, I have other shit to do and that takes mental effort…”this isn’t YOU man, what are you doing? that’s not YOU dude, why are you being weird? Why are you wearing that? That’s not YOU.”).

      You may have noticed a running theme here…those reasons are all selfish as FUCK, and don’t involve having your best interests (the betterment of your life in general) at heart. Along the way you’ll actually learn who your legit REAL friends are, because those are the friends who are going to be going “awesome work buddy, glad you’re coming out of your shell now!” and “that new outfit looks great, you’ll lookin’ stylin’ these days!” and “hey man I’m passing by the gym, do you need a ride?” etc.

      The sad part is that often you’ll find that your legit friends are a lot fewer than you thought…often it’ll only be like 1-5 people in your social circle that really support you as you work on yourself. You’ll run into a lot of situations where you’re like “wow, I really thought this person was my friend but they’re trying to keep me down… :(” And, even more sad, you may have to cut some of these people out of your life, either for a while (till you’ve solidified your new Identity enough that they finally accept it), or forever if they’re really detrimental to your mental state…or at least keep them at arm’s length and avoid hanging out with them unless you have to.

      The good news is that down the road you won’t regret cutting any of them out of your life because you’ll be fully aware of how poisonous they really were and you’ll feel more bad for them than for you, because you’ll think “man, I really wish this person had been more supportive instead of being such a negative person, I really valued their friendship and they’re really missing out by not getting to be a part of my life.”

      The other good news is that ultimately “the strongest frame wins”. If you take on a new Identity, and you solidify that identity over time with all your reference experiences, and you really become that new Identity and all your behaviors, thoughts, actions, etc. align with it congruently, for a long enough period of time, a lot of those people who had trouble with you changing will come to accept the “new” you and end up back in your life but this time accepting you for who you’ve become instead of trying to get you to stay in the label they had you in. It’s like your reality wins over theirs so they just cave and accept it, which is something common in pickup in general.

      “And then, I notice that the stuff she’s saying sort of mirrors the one-off critiques I got the other night”

      The rejection of your changing can manifest itself in pretty cruel ways depending on the type of person you’re dealing with. Some people will just be like “dude, that’s not you man, are you okay? Why are you acting like this now? You’ve changed man…” and some will be hostile dickheads like this chick.

      “it always boils down to something like ‘you’re gay’ ‘your outfit sucks,’”

      As you’ve noticed, this is the same type of shit you were getting from the girls in your last Field Report. Girls aren’t super clever, especially when they think the guy’s frame is incongruent/weak. Like you wouldn’t bother taking a huge wind-up swing to punch through a thin piece of balsa wood because you’d figure you can just break it with a couple fingers squeezing it.

      When I get shit-tested these days, I get shit-tested HARD…girls try to bring out their A-Game with testing me because they know stuff like “your outfit is gay” won’t phase me at all. They know if they’re going to test me, they need to do it with something brutal to have a shot at shaking my frame. Their shit still usually isn’t funny though lol

      And again, they’re just doing this because you’re acting different than how they think you “should” act, and they sense they can get away with it, like a cheetah tackling the injured gazelle of the group, it’s almost instinct to pounce on a weakness.

      Tyler puts it good in a video where he says that “the field” will take your sticking points, incongruencies, and any weak parts of your game and just shove them right in your face, harshly and brutally, until you fix those things. So in a way it’s a good thing, because when you approach 10 girls and they all go “eww don’t touch me you creep”, you learn “okay there’s a problem with how I’m doing my kino, time to zoom-in on my kino and figure out where I’m going wrong here”.

      The thing about their one-off insults is that they’re not real consistent or specific, so you can ignore them. If you got 20 insults and 15 of them were that your shirt is ugly, then your shirt is probably ugly lol But if you get 20 insults and they’re all over the map and vague like “you’re gay” “your haircut’s stupid” “you’re weird”, it’s just the girls shooting a shot-gun blast spread of insults hoping SOMETHING gets through a crack and hits you and makes you react. So you can just laugh that shit off because when you see them doing it, in your head it should translate to them saying to you “I have NO ammo at all, I’m just desperately flinging shit at you and crossing my fingers here”.

      “and then something along the lines of being a snob — which flat-out isn’t true”

      Ya, see? It’s like she can’t get a reaction out of you so now she’s even just making shit UP hoping you’ll fall into her frame, and defend yourself (against shit you know isn’t even TRUE) and qualify yourself to her, which is beta’ing yourself to her, and then she can feel like she “won” the little frame battle exchange she instigated because she’s insecure and needed to re-enforce to herself that she’s better than you. It’s really silly and petty lol

      So she might try like “you’re stupid” and you go “lol whatever” and she goes “grrr…you’re ugly!!” and you go “lol whatever” and she goes “grrr…you have a tiny dick!” and it’s not even something she could KNOW, and you happen to be sensitive/insecure about your wang so you go “what?? no I don’t!” and she goes “aha!! GOTCHA!!” and turns to the girls beside her and goes “right girls? this guy totally has a tiny dick! What a loser, I bet it’s the size of my pinky lol!!” and now she’s poking a sore-spot issue with you AND rallying up the people around her to pile on, and she’ll do it until you finally cave to the social pressure and she breaks your frame.

      Pretty fucked up hey? lol But again, she’s not always necessarily an evil horrible bitch even though it’s bullying behavior…she’s just testing you and trying to keep her world in the order it’s supposed to be in. And in fact, a lot of times these girls will be the sweetest girls in the world to you once they’re 100% sure that you’re congruent to who you’re portraying yourself as. It’s hard not to want to muff-punch her though, I know, lol

      Anyway, so that’s the general psychology behind this. The girls from your last Field Report did it too, where they test you for a sore spot and then try to gang up on you to put social pressure on you to cave. AMOGs will sometimes do this kind of thing too. It can be frustrating, especially when they actually DO strike a nerve, and you’ll react a bunch of times where as soon as you react you’ll go “ah shit I shouldn’t have done that”.

      But that’s okay, because it’s a learning process. Over time you’ll learn that a lot of the things they say really AREN’T things that SHOULD affect you. Like a girl making fun of your haircut, who the fuck cares, why would that affect your state or self-worth in any way, who the fuck is SHE? lol At the same time, you’ll also learn what things really DO affect you and where your boundaries are. I’ll let a girl SLAP me, I don’t give a fuck at all…I say a lot of offensive stuff and sometimes girls will react by slapping me because it was over the top and I’ll just grin and keep going like it was nothing. That’s not a boundary that really bothers me. But then on the flip side, a girl who’s being a dick to one of my Nice Guy friends will get a full verbal-bitch-slap reaming-out from me until she feels like a piece of shit and like I’m the meanest person in the world. I learned where my boundaries are, from being tested a bunch over the years.

      I like this Joe Rogan clip as an example of boundaries. He really isn’t affected by this girl, because he knows she’s irrellevant in the long-run, she doesn’t affect his self-worth at all, but at the same time he’s basically unapologetically saying “you are crossing my boundaries and if you keep it up I’m going to keep laying into you”:

      The crowd goes wild over the stuff he’s saying, and a lot of that is because they know they’re watching a man express himself from the core and not holding back. He’s not being PC, he’s not trying to appease anyone, he’s not holding back his opinion, he’s not embarrassed by his boundaries, he’s being completely honest and congruent and expressing himself. There’s NOTHING that chick can say that will phase him or get through any cracks, his Identity is rock solid even if it’s abrasive to the Politically Correct crowd.

      At 2:20-ish he threatens her with his dick and says “I’m a short guy but I’ve got a big dick” lol So now picture way back to your earlier post where you said the dance floor uggo sneered at you for trying to dance with her, or think back to the girl who made fun of your height…how would Joe Rogan have handled that? Well he might not have handled it in the best way and he might not handle it in a way that you’ll end up handling it when you get your Identity down (being a cool chill Owen Wilson type guy is as much of an Identity as being a loud asshole), but he sure as shit would have a way to handle it that’s congruent, you know? 🙂

      That’s part of why I asked you earlier if you had any boundaries, or knew what they were, or when you last made other people aware of your boundaries when they crossed them or if you just bottled it up inside, etc. At this stage you probably don’t know what your boundaries are yet. Like ya, the calling you gay or a snob is annoying, but it doesn’t REALLY piss you off…so you’ll probably be able to handle that stuff and laugh it off and down the road it’ll be completely insignificant to you. Whereas if a girl called you fat, since you’re working on your weight, that might actually sting you right now. These are things you’ll learn about yourself as you go.

      “She teases all the guys in the group, but from her to me it’s way different.”

      I actually think you could fuck her lol

      “I attempt to use the whole ‘two second alpha stare’ on her remarks….which PISSES her off even more!”

      lol you did good, regardless of her reaction. Her getting pissed off is because she’s frustrated that nothing is getting to you. Probably in the past before you found the Manosphere you’d qualify/react more often to this shit she’s throwing at you, but now you’re not anymore, so it’s that frustration of “keep being who you’re SUPPOSED to be, grrr, why isn’t this working anymore??” And because you’re not reacting and you’re staying cool, she just starts looking more and more irrational and petty and she can sense that, so she has to keep trying to up the ante to get you to react…thus:

      “Eventually, she actively starts trying to get the other girls around her in on the shit talking.”

      Maybe SHE can’t pressure you into reacting, but maybe the combined social pressure of her and the 3 girls you’re talking to can get you to cave. I actually use this tactic on AMOGs lol, if I’m worried the guy’s going to hit me I’ll use the girls in the group and/or the other guys and/or passers-by and try to turn the group against him to get him to feel the social pressure and force him to calm down out of fear of everyone judging him as irrational and angry.

      “At this point, I kinda break and start reacting way more.”

      lol it’s all good. This chick is pro, she knows exactly what she’s doing and she’s probably been doing it a lot longer to everyone in her life than some silly 18yo at the bar who’s still learning the ropes of how to use the power she has over men. You stepped into the ring with Tyson and didn’t come out completely mangled, that’s pretty decent all things considered. 🙂 It’ll get easier over time, and you’ll get more competent at it and eventually you’ll be 10 steps ahead of her and know what she’s thinking better than she does.

      “Not in an angry way, but you know…like…in that way where I’m somehow justifying myself.”

      Right, this is what we call “qualifying yourself”. It feels stupid, right? Like you’re DOING it, but you know you SHOULDN’T be doing it, but you can’t help it because you just need to do it like scratching an itch. Down the road you’ll start using this on girls and getting them to qualify themselves to you and they’ll react the same way you did, where they just NEED to qualify and feel like they have to justify themselves. It’s pretty powerful stuff when you use it consciously. The old-school PUA examples are (once you pass the hook point and you know you have some kind of value to the girl) the classic “Can you cook? I can’t date a girl who can’t cook.” or “Are you adventurous?” etc. where when she qualifies herself to you, you reward her, which sets up a frame where she wants more rewards so she keeps qualifying herself, creating a loop where she keeps investing more in the interaction and chasing your validation.

      “I’m starting to see that these skills apply to most every area of life. So much of how you’re treated seems to boil down to how people perceive your SMV to be.”

      Yup. Welcome to the Matrix. 🙂 If two people were applying for a job and one guy was a shy nervous guy who spent all his time studying and he had amazing qualifications but was socially awkward, and the other guy applying had half or even no qualifications, but was extremely charistmatic and had an obviously high SMV and could build a connection with people quickly and get the interviewer talking about how much they both love golf etc., my money would be on the 2nd guy getting the job. It’s kind of a mind-fuck to realize how much societal conditioning brainwashed us all to believe that working hard will result in the universe rewarding us fairly…when the reality is a lot of people who have good jobs, financial success, great opportunities, etc. really just got those things by knowing the right people and being “liked”.

      “When we get there my plan is to just hang out with the work group for like half an hour to hour before peeling off to hit on EVERY hot girl in the club.”

      lol excellent plan. A booth is fun if you’re just fucking around with your boys and don’t care about getting laid, but the reality is that most bar/club booths are really awkward logistically for talking to girls. Your friends won’t care because they can’t approach girls anyway so they’re happy drinking in the booth, but you have to be like “I have to go to the bathroom” and then go do some approaches. Most of my friends know that I’ll occasionally vanish here and there through the night instead of holding their hands and cuddling around the bar all night.

      The expensive VIP booths are often even worse…they’re a good place to bring girls back to, and you’re socially proofed if everyone can see you in your important rich-people booth…but unless you’re in a Vegas style club where promoters bring golddiggers over to your table, you’re segregated from the general population in the club behind a velvet rope or up on a stage etc. and you don’t get to interact with them unless you leave the very expensive VIP booth you paid for lol

      “But, I managed to stick to the plan — somewhat — and make two approaches.”

      Good on ya. It’s all reference experiences that add up over time.

      “Now she turns toward me ‘wow that was really nice of you.’”

      Shit, not bad for winging it. You basically DHV’ed a bit and you probably could’ve taken this somewhere…till the big guy showed up lol Nothing you can do about that right now. Hell, I don’t even bother with those sets these days, where the guy is clearly over-protective…it’s just not worth the hassle, even if I can tool him he might just end up punching me out because for all I know she’s his girlfriend of 10 years lol

      “I was feeling kinda shitty over the last set and pretty much made the approach a cheesy pickup line.”

      lol one of the ways Tyler recommends getting into state is to purposely do shit like approach as a cheesy pickup line guy, or to purposely approach like a total AFC asking interview questions, or purposely approach trying to get shot down or get her to slap you, or approaching using a made up foreign language, etc. Basically doing stuff that you KNOW probably won’t work and is retarded, but is funny to you and makes you laugh at how dumb what you’re trying is. It helps get you outside of your head and away from outcome dependance and dying for approval because you’re shooting yourself in the foot on purpose from the start. Once you get back into state, your sets usually go a lot better because your sub-communications are fun instead of needy.

      “I think really, I just need to nail down this ‘irrational self-confidence at all times’ thing.”

      Like I say, it helps to have the reference experiences for it so it’ll come with time.

      But in the meantime, try some Affirmations:

      Saying Affirmations to yourself feels pretty cheesy if you’ve never done it, and while I don’t really do them now (because my brain is basically telling me how awesome I am 24/7 lol), I found they helped a lot when I was starting out. I combined a few of them into one long one and I’d recite it while showering, while doing my hair etc., into a mirror before leaving my apartment for the bar, etc.

      Some people respond well to them, some people don’t, try doing some Affirmations daily for a couple weeks and see what it does for your mood. I thought they were completely retarded at first, but I’m always up for at least giving new stuff a fair try, and it turned out they helped get me jump-started on building that irrational self-confidence thing.

      Good luck!


      • Man, every time I read one of your posts, I just want to go back out and do it all over again. Fills me with hope. Really appreciate the effort. I’ll try to work on this stuff, man.


      • lol glad to help. Hope some other people reading get some use out of it too.

        Just wanted to post this quick ’cause I linked it elsewhere and just realized it’s a great example of a more chill Identity that isn’t crazy-in-your-face like Joe Rogan:

        So compare Cajun’s vibe here to Joe Rogan, specifically at 2:50 (tho the whole clip is a good explanation of the Identity stuff you’re working on). If a girl sneered at Cajun on the dance floor or told him she thought guys would be taller in the future, how would Cajun’s Identity cause him to handle it? Joe Rogan’s Identity would cause him to bitch her out and call her a stupid cunt. Cajun’s Identity would be more of a smooth persistent “oh, that’s cute, you’re trying to get rid of me…but it’s not going to work, I’m too charming, you might as well just accept that we’re going to hook up. :)”

        So your Identity down the road as you learn more about yourself 1) might be anywhere in the spectrum from smooth guy to in-your-face asshole, and 2) might be an Identity you COMPLETELY can’t even tell is really under the surface in you right now and you could be surprised by what your Identity turns out to be when you finally melt away all the social conditioning and shit that holds it back.

        When I got into game I was super shy and quiet and anti-social…and now I’m the complete opposite of that. But I realized looking at photos/videos of myself when I was a little kid (like under 10 years old) that I was actually exactly like I am now, out-going and funny and talkative…it’s just that in elementary/high-school/college I learned to stuff that all down and hide it because of social conditioning that told me to be a Nice Guy and because I had bad acne and was chubby and Disney told me only the good looking prince gets the girl etc. and I chained my personality up like a lot of people do. The current me is actually just a return to who I used to be.

        Tyler describes it as “At some point when you were growing up you chose an Identity that wouldn’t even make people LIKE you, but that would just make people not DIS-like you.” A big part of game is just unwiring all that bullshit.

        And in fact a big part of why alcohol is such a popular substance in society, and I mean, it’s POISON, it doesn’t make SENSE that we would all be willingly poisoning ourselves all the time…why do we do it? Because it allows us to take off those social conditioning chains for a few hours and really express ourselves and our Identities. So the innocent girl ends up dancing up on the bar. The Nice Guy ends up picking fights because he’s sexually frustrated. The shy quiet guy becomes loud and outgoing and confident. The guy in his unsatisfying marriage that he TELLS everyone is “just great!” sleeps with a flirty waitress.

        When do we drink? When we instinctively know that social conditioning will hold us back from our goals. So a shy guy and innocent girl go on a date. They both WANT to fuck, but society has conditioned him to be a gentleman who pretends not to want sex and its conditioned her to be a Good Girl who doesn’t put out like those slutty Bad Girls.

        So they bring a bottle of wine to share, of course. A few drinks in, the shy guy’s confident horny side is unlocked and the innocent girl’s flirty horny side is unlocked, and they make sweet love and then when they wake up cuddling in bed together they go “wow I can’t believe we did that, we must’ve been SO drunk” and return to their social conditioning.

        Crazy, hey? lol


      • GOLD!

        Thanks very much for being here!


  44. Rather than be in a captive audience observing these slim pickins, consult the ultimate slut-tell map. Zoom out for a global view of the wife market.



  45. Walk away from this one. The fact that she brought it up, means she will do it – with or without your agreement. I would tell it that it speaks volumes that she wants to hang out with her ex, and get rid of her. She is testing you to see if you’re a chump, the only way to handle this is to kick her to the curb. Now you can f**k her, but make it clear that she is just a f**k-toy and nothing more.

    She wants to get it on with her ex – it is as simple as that. Women are completely transparent once you understand their little hamster brain.


  46. Your selection map



  47. I am dealing with this very issue right now with my WIFE….

    She spend all day yesterday rationalizing why its ok for her to stay with her daughter and ex husband and not me for the week of Christmas, while they are in town…

    I am not arguing or discussing. Papers have been filed by me a year ago and now I simply will prepare to Next her the rest of the way and finalize divorce after holidays as to not make a scene for kids sake.


    • You wifed up a singe mom.
      You deserve everything that’s gonna happen to you.



    • Do you also have kids from a previous relationship?
      Or, is it just her kid?


      • One would presume that if her daughter is living with her ex-husband, that she is the ex-husband’s daughter.


      • I realize that. But it’s not what I asked him. I asked if he was also a single dad. If he’s not a single dad who married a single mom, then Anon is 100% correct.

        However, if he’s a single dad then I think it’s more understandable to wife up a single mom. Everything is relative, and everything has its appropriateness depending on the situation.


    • Men, I just despise people like you, Don’t you have any shame, Don’t you feel repulse by her that you married a single mom who is probably divorced and has a kid from another man and is now IGNORING you for the same guy she dumped.

      I have never heard of Super Beta but if there’s any YOU”RE ONE OF THEM.


  48. It all has been said on here, but to reiterate, the only reason to even have a gf is if you are considering her to be your wife and the mother of your children. If not, then just have fwb or f-buddies and cut the bullshit.

    This shows that she isn’t wifey/motherly material, and probably a cuckolding risk, so get out now.


  49. on December 27, 2012 at 3:58 pm Alpha Confidence

    You left out the #1 “go-to-option” Hertiste.. SMACK THE BITCH! Nothing says “You aren’t going to see your ex” like a well delivered back hand, either that or become a serial killer. Apparently chicks dig serial killers..

    Disclaimer: For any idiot who reads this and takes it seriously, I shall not be held responsible for the prison ass rapings you will more then likely incur.