“How do I get out of the friend zone?”

A reader urgently requested an answer to this post’s heading.

I’m certain Le Chateau has covered this issue before, but the archives are huge and formidable, so I’ll offer an update here.

If you initially tried to ingratiate yourself to a girl you want to fuck by spinning into beta orbiter mode, listening with growing ball pain to her woes about assholes she’s banging, and predictably getting friendzoned as a result, I can assure you that getting OUT of a friend zone and into a lover zone is far more difficult than working from scratch as an unabashed lover prospect. Once a girl has it in her head that you are a harmless castrati, an abrupt shift to incongruent sexiness will jolt her comfortable feelings of safety and security. She’s a good bet to lash out in anger, spite and emotional distancing. If you are a beta at your core, you will then make the situation worse by apologetically backpedaling and begging her to remain friends with you so that you may go home and vigorously masturbate your pimplepeen to the memory of her elbow lightly brushing against your arm when she hastily reached for her cell to take a call from your white whale.

So, my first piece of advice:

Don’t let yourself get into a scenario where friendzoning is possible.

You should be flirting all the time and dropping bits of sexual innuendo. Let a girl know, through subtle cues, that you are a sexual creature right up front. This is what successful players mean by “make your intentions known”. They don’t mean “go up to a chick and tell her you love her body and want to spill your sin all over it”. (Well, sometimes that works.) They mean that you should be innocuously flirting, with plausible deniability, sooner rather than later, so that her subconscious registers you as an alpha male not to be trifled with nor cavalierly tossed into the LJBF discount bin.

If, however, you do find yourself in the friend zone, the way out of it is… drum roll please… scarcity.

Disappear. Vamoose. Deprive her of the happy nonsexual emotional support she’s come to expect from you.

It’s a bit more complicated that that, but that’s the gist of the “LJBF2Lover” program. In detail, it would look like this:

1. Knock her out of her comfort zone with a surprise flirtatious vibe. Don’t overextend this. Too much shock to her system will drive her into a cocoon. You want to give her a small buzz, not an electric storm that immediately activates her anti-beta male, egg-preserving bitch shield.

2. After your flirty expectation sabotage, promptly pull back into beta orbiter mode as if nothing unusual happened. Your goal is to strike a hot iron at the girl’s subconscious without alerting her conscious awake state. If she calls you out on your flirt, act like she’s weird for bringing it up. “I hope you don’t get the wrong idea” is a great line to drop at that moment.

3. Leave her on a good (i.e. congruent) note. But leave her for at least two weeks. During the interim, if your LJBF is strong, she will attempt to contact you asking why, as a friend, you’ve been incommunicado. Again, chastise her for being needy, and tell her you’ve been busy. Do not explain yourself beyond that.

4. Meet her again. Repeat the above three steps, with the exception that you will amp up the intensity and frequency of your sexual, aloof vibe each new time you hang out with her. You are in the process of acclimating her to your new, sexual self.

5. You can speed up the process by actively flirting with other girls in her field of view. Jealousy is the most powerful hacksaw against the chains of the friendzone.

6. When enough time has passed, and your shift from asexual lump to cocky bastard is almost complete, drop the following line on her (with brow deviously furrowed in deep, phony concern): “You’ve been flirting like crazy. I think we should be apart for a while so we don’t risk our friendship.” Wham. Game dynamite with the fuse attached right to her hamster’s anus. You’ve implied she’s falling for you, you’ve disqualified yourself by insisting that you need time away from her, and you’ve flipped the script so that any further interaction would require some amount of chasing by her.

7. If she agrees with you, admit defeat (to yourself) and move on. The LJBF was too powerful to overcome. If you have made an impact on her perception of you, her attitude will be different. She will act confused, half-heartedly agreeing only as a default response with nothing better to say, or disagreeing in mild protest. “Nooo, I’m not flirting with you.” (The very act of verbalizing this will put her in a chaser frame of mind.) Or: “Nooo, we can still be friends.” Either way, insist that you’re right to spend time apart until “the heat cools off”. But if she can “control herself around you”, you might be OK with hanging with her some more.

8. Segue like a diabetic tourist. Forcefully move the conversation away from the drama that just went down. Act like she’s a girl you just met. Gauge for positive reception. If she attempts to pull you back into a friendship frame, the attitude you want to avoid is sounding resentful. She’s testing you for congruency with your new identity. A funny quip like “Oh, man, it’s just not the same anymore. I already miss the old you” should do the trick to pass her test. Again, hit on another girl in front of her. Leave prematurely.

9. At some point you’ll have to make a bold move for her vagina. This is when verbal game stops and physical game revs into high gear. A lot of recovering betas make the mistake of letting the attraction and comfort phase of pickup drag on too long, for fear of losing the good feelings they are engendering in the woman to a sloppy bedroom move. “You’ve never seen this part of my life” is a great line to use on a former LJBF to persuade her to come to your place. It ignites a sense of wonder in her that she will presume is missing with a man she (thinks she) knows very well.

10. Does the above sound like a lot of work? You’re right, it is! Accept the challenge of converting an LJBF for its own sake, but if lay efficiency is your goal, you’d be better off pawning that girl buddy into social circle game with her hot, and relatively unfamiliar, friends.


  1. open the door, andwal out.


  2. who has time for all this…… gah… women lol


  3. 1. Fuck one or more of her friends.


  4. Lmfao at #1
    That is correct, bang one of her friends or flirt with hotter women in front of her face. Call her friend zone bluff. Watch the cock blocking, jealousy and hating commence 🙂


    • on June 14, 2012 at 3:26 pm Art Vandelay

      What’s the virtue of doing this? Wouldn’t you rather bang the hotter woman than getting her to cockblock you?


      • on June 14, 2012 at 6:14 pm Simon Corso

        The idea is you CAN do both.
        Jealousy is a fantastic catalyst for sex.

        It’s like a kid with toy. Kid plays with the toy for a little while and quickly gets bored. The kid drops the toy and completely loses interest in it. Then another kid ,(kid2) sees the toy laying around. Picks up the toy and starts to have fun with it. Now, kid1 sees this and suddenly, wants the toy. Kid2 wont give it up without a fight. The actual value of the toy is immaterial. Both kids want it just because the other one does.

        When a woman realizes she has to compete for you, the love juices flow like a river.


  5. Correction, one of her slutty friends, and do so well, in as depraved a manner as possible.


  6. The real paradox is that anyone who has the skills to pull this off didn’t get ljbf’d in the first place. Or, they’re going to focus their efforts on new prospects. Some good moves in here nonetheless, and probably best for girls who’ve ljbf’d you because you’ve already been pounding one of her friends. Kind of like the ol’ Seinfeld roommate switcheroo, without proposing a threesome.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Game is, at least to some extent, learnable. Someone might have fallen into the trap before, but now at least recognize there is a way out.

      Why on earth anyone, anywhere, at any time, in any universe whatsoever, would even want to expend even a millisecond’s worth of time pursuing some whore who tells you about how she’s being someone elses cum dump, is completely beyond me. If you go through all the trouble outlined in this post, at least do it for someone worthy of something more than a casual stoning.


  7. @PDX Agreed. This probably is too high skilled for someone who got LJBF’d in the first place to use. It’s like Derek Jeter telling a tee-baller how to get out of a hitting slump.

    I’d go with the simplified program, which I used back in the day when I got LJBF’d in college with a chick.

    (1) Go bold asking her out from the beginning. Expect a rejection. But this sets up a hamster double shock. Keys here are to not ask her out like a beta, no undying confessions of love, simply, hey, we should go out sometime. Do not act butthurt or bitter when you get the rejection, you should already be prepared mentally for it to even smile when you get it. You’ve planted the seed.

    (2) After rejection pull out of orbit. Again, key here is to avoid butthurtness, but you need to stop giving the store away especially when you just named the cost. I recommend going slowly no-contact over 2 weeks, she must feel the pulling away. Do not let the frame re-establish.

    (3) Go out with and be scene with other girls. As said above, this truly is the nitrous oxide that drives you out of the friendzone. Jealousy, I believe, is the only tonic that truly can break you out of the LJBF. Key is again, do not be appear to be doing it on purpose. The right frame is, cool, she said pass, I’ll pursue other girls. The paradox is, you truly have to pursue them, not do it to get her back.

    (4) She will pursue. Make sure it is on you terms, make sure you physically escalate and make sure you don’t jump back into your frame at the brush of your one-tis allowing you to come in from orbit.

    This crash course worked for me twice. I’d say is the advanced course, this is breaking out of LJBF for dummies. Of course, during college, I learned it’s best to never have to work out of this hole in the first place. But this poorman’s guide did work wonders at the time, both girls came running back, one I just tagged and dumped, the other was my gf for quite awhile.

    Regardless, it’s a short term antidote for a long term problem. Instead of seeking anti-venom, you should be asking how to avoid snakes.


    • @PDX Agreed. This probably is too high skilled for someone who got LJBF’d in the first place to use. It’s like Derek Jeter telling a tee-baller how to get out of a hitting slump.

      Nah, there are lots of betas out there who know the basics of alpha game and have taken the red pill, but who don’t quite have it together (like me). SimpleMan’s comment just underneath this one is Exhibit A for this being useful.


  8. I can confirm with 100% accuracy that this works. Have tried it on at least 3-4 LJBF’s. Keep the force strong on this.


  9. The letter writer is quite possibly developing the frequently comorbid Oneitis.

    File under: “a lot of work”

    In order to communicate that you are a sexual creature, and not just a guy funneling all of his sexual energy towards her, you will have to flirt with other women around her (and not around her), in order to create the right general vibe (and the right internal frame). This also means talking about sexual matters more frequently in an observational, Seinfeldian, people-watching way. Just to get her mind on the right track. Polarize your being towards evolutionary success. These notions are contained in the orignal advice, but it should be emphasized, due to looming Oneitis: don’t focus everything on the chick like a laser. This should be a part of a period in your life in which you are choosing to raise your game, overall.

    Spoiler alert: This general raising of game will probably attract some other, worthwhile girl


    • I have a policy:

      I will not be friends with girls I would like to fuck. No expiration date: I will never stop flirting with an exlover when I encounter her, if it’s what I’d like to do when I encounter her. Nothing sadder than becoming a beta orbiter to an ex. This sometimes leads to pleasant little reunions.

      Have that line in the sand before you even walk out the door. It’s good to have a policy.


      • ^^This.

        An ex-gf called me a year after we broke up. She asks how I’m doing etc and says something like, “I knew we’re the kind of people that could just be good friends.”

        I never called her back.


  10. Per a recent discussion at The Private Man:


    Practice Outcome Independence. Find a flaw and focus on it. How she always says, “like” or “ummm”, her eyes aren’t symmetrical, she has fat calves, whatever. It will alter your interaction with her and your interest will take random hits whenever you notice her flaw. Your attraction to her will begin to wane and she will pick up on your IOD’s. The only way she will be able to get you back will be to up her interest. If she does not, it will be easy to walk away from her and find someone else. This will simultaneously get you out of her friendzone and allow you to LJBF her back.


    • Sweet! Then when you finally get her your prize is a fat ankled girl with weird asymmetrical eyes who says “like” too much. Follow this method and you can land all sorts of girls you aren’t into!

      lol I’m exaggerating but I seriously never understood the guys who were like “just remind yourself she shits and farts and has boomers dripping out her nose bro then go get her!!”. Like eeww no, now I don’t want her.


      • That’s a possibility. But if you go in looking at every girl as flawless, Oneitis, approach anxiety, and/or settles in. What finding the flaw does is make approaching easier (because you’re not afraid of rejection), keeps your interest levels from getting out of hand, and if you get LJBF’ed, it’s not a big deal.

        Also, it is easy to overlook flaws when a girl is actively trying to attract you. If she stops, her flaws will begin to show.

        I personally don’t subscribe to the “smelly shit” kind of flaw because you have to imagine that one.


      • Not if you know ten flawless oneitises. Then you have what, tenitis? I thought that was ringing in the ears or something. I mean, I have never heard of anybody getting oneitis in Ukraine.


      • If you have tenitis, I’m guessing getting friendzoned is not a problem. But the post isn’t about you.

        Seriously, the reader’s problem is that he’s into some chick who friendzoned him. As PDX observed, if he got friendzoned, he’s not going to be able to knock her out of her comfort zone, fuck her friends, or avoid going back to beta orbiter mode. Why? Because the reason he is in an LJBF is not because of HER, it’s because of HIM. He’s is allowing himself to be an orbiter.

        So he has to kill some of his attraction to her, hence finding a flaw. Once he kills his own attraction, he can step out of the friendzone. Once he steps out, she will have to find a way to get him back by being more attractive to him. Once that happens, he will find it easier to flirt with her friends, tease and neg her, make her comply.


      • lol ya I know what you mean. I was just being a dick there. 🙂

        In all seriousness “she picks her nose too” is basically an exaggerated form of “don’t put the pussy up on a pedestal” which is legit advice. One of the best naturals I know is a guy who grew up with 5 sisters. No girl is a special unique flower to him, he’s seen what women are like his whole life.

        It’s still not advice I use myself though eww but half of accepting the red pill is accepting that you’ll have to find ways to trick your brain into unwiring all the bullshit society wired into it your whole life so if this helps a guy, then he should go nuts.


      • No worries. We’re all trying to make the red pill easier to take. Some people need to take it with a glass of water, some people don’t.


  11. on June 14, 2012 at 2:56 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    I found another way.

    Most women have “vanilla” sex with boyfriends who they want to respect them, but they hide their freaky side from guys like that. Yet they’ll happily discuss this freaky side with some male friends, though. What you have to do is convince them they need to try whatever freaky activity they want for their own good. (All women have a freaky fetish. It’s up to you to find it. Usually it can be gleaned through the movies they watch.)

    Here’s how I did it. First, STOP SEEING HER in person. Say you’re busy. Then you need some intense, highly sexual late night phone convos to plant seeds. While you do this, zero in on her freaky fetish and how it’s healthy for her and why she needs to at least try it. Then talk about how you know A LOT about it. If she says “that would be weird” agree with her, do some push-pull, and remind her that a lot of what she just told you is weirder. Then cite research, which you can find on the Web to justify anything. Then find what Neil Strauss called “chick crack.” Come up with some astrological or space age reason her fetish is really important and why you need to be the “shepherd of her desires.”

    I’ve found women’s fetishes can run from mutual masturbation, to being jerked off on, to public nudity, to anal sex, to stripping, to spanking, to foot worship. WHATEVER it is, you have to say “Oh that? Sure! Hehe.” When she gasps “You know about that??” you then tell her about the older woman you learned it from at 19.

    If you do this right, by the time you get together again, the sexual tension will be so high that she’ll probably make the first move. This is what happened to me. You probably won’t get “a girlfriend” per se out of this, but then you won’t want one. You’ll get some great non-vanilla sex, though. I also found this limbo zone between friends-lovers and freakiness can go on and off for years.


    • lol are you a wizard? This is totally one of my main M.O.’s with taken girls and it works like a motherfucker. Let her know you’re used to and prefer kinky sex, that let’s her ASD know it’s safe to open up a bit about her desires (tho usually she’ll just be vague and keep it pretty vanilla like “I love when a guy takes charge…(insert blushing emoticon)” and you have to extrapolate that that means she wants rough dominant sex), act totally unphased by her desire as if you’ve done it a thousand times and lots of girls are into that, hell I even use the “older woman taught me some things” bit (tho that’s partly true for me), and eventually she gets so curious about it that she’ll help arrange the lay.

      And she’ll never let her BF know any of her desires because it’s too risky. She’s got hopes, dreams of a white pickett fence and marriage with her guy, it’s too risky to go “so hey I like to be spit on and face-fucked till I puke” and have him freak out and bail and have all those dreams come crashing down around her.

      Even if she DOES attempt to explore that stuff with her partner, she’ll do it suuuuper slow and ease him into it. So he’ll think he’s the man lightly choking her and she’ll tell him it’s the first time she’s ever done it and he’s amazing, and she’ll try to slowly build on that for months and years just to get to where we were on day 1 lol

      anyway ya I just wanted to back your shit up. Guys who identify too heavily with being into the “BDSM world” creep me out with the way they talk/write but the actual advice/tactic you’re dropping here is legit.


      • on June 14, 2012 at 3:52 pm Days of Broken Arrows

        Hehe. The “older woman” line is true for me too. I discovered all this by accident when I was in college and got to know a real trashy high school girl who was too young to do stuff with, but not too young to talk about it with. I discovered early on that some women compartmentalize “boyfriend sex” and “kinky sex.”

        The heyday of this sort of thing for me was back in 2000-04 when it was very easy to meet semi-anonymous women via Yahoo Messenger. They’d first tell you of their perversions, then you’d get to know the “real” them. The way this has played out, I’m now friends with “respectable” married women on FB who I first got to know on Yahoo when they’d tell me how they blew their b/f’s in sex shops in front of other men. As I said above, find their pervy side and you’re in!


      • Last night a girl told me with my cum still on her face that she made her boyfriend pay for blowjobs. Hot girl, dumb guy, etc but yes this is truth.

        I’ve been lucky in life though, and my dads stalker settled for me for a stint when I was 13 and I’ve been riding this train off and on ever since.

        This is isn’t even 80%/20% advice, people just want someone safe to act out their fantasies with…if your reading this you need to realize as her boyfriend your her meal ticket and thus NOT SAFE TO BE A FREAKSHOW AROUND lolol

        This shit is truth keep preaching lords of the lay


      • When I did online game that was pretty much how I ran it too. Start with sexy talk to get them curious then build comfort and push for the meet-up, then escalate from there. Now I don’t do online game, in my area it’s become a cesspool of fat single moms lol

        I still follow the same basic concept of eliciting values and letting them know right off the bat that I’m into kinky stuff, but now I do it verbally in person with the girl as soon as I meet her. I’ll talk with a girl I’ve just met for a few minutes and my buddies will ask “So what does she do?” “Dunno.” “How old is she?” “Dunno.” “Where’s she from??” “Dunno.” “WTF were you talking about?” “She likes fucking in public and isn’t wearing panties right now.”

        I learned this from a natural who would always steer conversations with new girls in our group toward sex, which I thought was TOTALLY inappropriate and rude when I was a newbie AFC beta. Now I understand why he got laid so much lol


      • on June 15, 2012 at 12:59 am Days of Broken Arrows

        Yeah, good points. Ya Really — why is your blog private?

        And just in case anyone is reading to this point from my original comment, I left out that you need to escalate to phone sex at some point, although that’s sort of self-evident. As one woman once said to me “What does it matter — we’ve cum together.” She meant on the phone, but it was easy enough to move that to the real world.

        I also left out some other things women talk about, most notably nude or topless sunbathing. It’s not real hard to escalate from rubbing down someone who is naked with lotion to sex — just saying. Several women also confessed they had “amateur night strip club” fantasies and call girl and street prostitution fantasies. While making those fantasies come to IRL might not be smart, role playing has been known to get women off, so brush up on those acting skills….


    • on June 14, 2012 at 6:41 pm Mexican Pete

      Days of Broken Arrows,

      I’ve seen your method work – but not for men stuck in the friendzone.

      Getting a girl to do that implies that she always saw you as the kind of alpha she’d consider doing weird shit with.

      She’s not going to pick one of her “sexless” beta orbiters (as she sees them) for her walk on the wild side. The second her favourite beta starts asking her about her fetishes, he’s going to get shot down quicker than the Libyan air force.

      Though, that’s not a bad thing in itself, since nothing’s more soul destroying than “friendship” with a woman who’s oblivious to your feelings towards her.


  12. I’m glad I don’t move in the vanilla world. When a woman knows you tie your women up, have rough sex with them and keep them in line with spankings, she won’t put you in any zone. They either get it, in which case, you’re probably going to have them at some point, or the subject just doesn’t come up. On that note, I have to agree with PDX. If you got there, you probably belong there. Go out and use some women like she wants to be used. Maybe word will get back to her. Drop the pussy shroud society put on you and get back in touch with your core manhood. By the time she wakes up, you want want her anymore. Then she’ll want you. That’s how they are. And word does get back, sparks curiosity. I went through a trio of sisters that way, all of them wanting to know what it felt like to be dominated.


    • @Mikey,

      Good for you mate!

      I seem to have a knack for finding chicks who are just waiting to be dominated – or else, they have a knack of finding me?!

      Either way, I’ve had much fun doing so…


    • Seriously tho this article is about the best possible advice for getting out of that situation. The dumb part is a guy in this situ won’t even be able to handle the “2 weeks of silence” thing let alone do it multiple times cause he’s got mild to moderate one-itis. But if he COULD manage to follow this, this is about the best shot he’s got at reversing the situ.

      It’s way too much work tho. Better to just find a new girl who’s just as awesome as her. “there’s another girl who looks just like her up the street”. And then don’t end up in the new one’s friend zone.

      I’ve told girls straight up that I have enough friends and I don’t need a “txting buddy” lol my view of male-female friendship was corrupted by going from 100% female-less virgin (not even platonic female friends in my life) to finding the PUA community and banging girls out left and right. So the concept of a female friend you don’t fuck is completely foreign and strange to me. I have guy friends to hang out with if I just want to shoot the shit or see a movie, why would I hang out with a girl if we’re not fucking?

      That was a big adjustment when I moved to a city where my buddies all have girlfriends that party with us. I still have to consciously not escalate on them when they get in close to talk to me when we’re all at a bar or whatever lol but it annoys me when they do that because that sets off all the instincts I’ve built up and I have to remind myself that’s a no-go. I’m not even INTO them, it’s just when a girl is in a certain part of my space, my mind and body go on auto-pilot seduction mode.

      Those instincts get me laid but even I’m aware that they aren’t the healthiest mindset to have to function in normal society.


      • Hey YaReally. Please expand on how you made that transition from virgin to banging left and right.

        1) How long did it take?
        2) What kind of work did you put in?
        3) what advice to you give to an intermediate looking to do better?

        I’ve come along way but kind of feel like I’m in a rut now.



      • Here’s my life story lol

        tl;dr version: It was a fuckton of work.

        Noobz don’t appreciate how hard learning pickup was back in the day. We didn’t have DVDs and free YouTube content and blog articles from 400 different gurus handing us this shit on a silver platter, and bootcamps were only just starting to be offered and were super unproffesional (Tyler sleeping on your couch style) and not a “bootcamp tour across North America, we’ll be in every major city so sign up at your convenience!” situ at all.

        And there weren’t as many pussy debates that plague the PUA forums and Manosphere comment sections these days. The response to “Do you think this would work?” is “Go out and try it and let us know.” and there was even a rule that if you wanted to post a tactic you had to have at LEAST successfully pulled it off with a minimum of 3 girls before even bringing it UP to the rest of the community. We tried to stamp out Keyboard Jockeying as much as possible, but there were still a bunch of KJs even back then…but it was more like 50:50 PUAs:KJs instead of now where it’s like 5:95 PUAs:KJs lol

        Journey from Newbie To Mastery:

        This vid starts getting into it about 3 minutes in after Tyler’s awkward “humor”:

        Anyway, to your Qs:

        1) I found the community back before The Game was published, and the week that I discovered it I tried some shit out THAT weekend because I was at rock bottom and knew I was shit with girls and totally lost, so I figured I might as well try it out. Got a phone number the first night, and a number the second night. Continued reading the material and following it and managed to lay both girls, sober and everything. I pretty much shit a brick and jumped into it full-tilt from there.

        So technically I had success right away, but it was a solid couple years before I had an actual consistent deeper understanding of everything (even though I was getting laid, there were still a lot of random elements in it and a lot of concepts I didn’t really grasp/understand in depth). I was a super shy “introverted” computer nerd hermit, so I actually had to learn to socialize with people in GENERAL during that time. I had no idea how “bros” interact with eachother, or that saying/doing certain things was weird and socially uncalibrated, etc. etc. I didn’t know how make small talk or anything, with anyone, except really close friends. I had to learn how to dress, groom, fix my body language, etc. So I had to undo a lot of bullshit programming in those first couple years. This first few years was pretty much all external.

        The next couple years were more about solidifying my skills and getting deeper. I knew the surface level of most of the concepts and had seen/experienced them in the field, but I didn’t really understand their depth. So this was the stage where I started fixing my internals and actually growing a lot beyond my external skills/routines/etc. After that the next couple years were about making this stuff all natural and subconscious…before that I was doing the “fake it till you make it” method, which totally worked, but at this stage I was ready to start really internalizing it all so that it became a part of my personality.

        Currently and for the past year or so I’ve got all the concepts down, in depth, and natural (I’m not a “PUA” to people, I’m just a naturally attractive man), but now I’m working on my own standards and filtering and just knowing what I want with regards to the women in my life, as well as focusing on the rest of my life (concentrating on my job, focusing on my health, expanding my social circles, etc.).

        2) My day job faded into the background and I would literally spend from like 5pm – midnight every weekday night reading anything I could find on pickup and reading the forums (the main place to find new info back then). I lived, breathed, ate, and slept this shit. That’s why I have such a large encyclopedia in my brain where I can say “that line came from this PUA” or “that concept was invented by blah PUA in this time period of game” or explain a simple concept to really in-depth levels…I absorbed everything from everyone.

        Every Fri/Sat I’d go out and try new stuff out. There were TONS of new things to try back then, and everything to me was a little success. Guys now are like “ohh I tried that line and she didn’t blow me in the bathroom, this shit doesn’t worrrrrrk!!!” But back then if a girl even gave me her number or would TALK to me for an hour I was like “This is awesome!! Best night evar!!”

        I still vividly remember the first time I tried opening with a sexual opener and fully expecting to be slapped or called a creep, and instead the girls were into it and attracted. I lost that set quickly afterward but there were all these little “holy shit!!” moments like that that kept me going.

        After a couple years I started going out more and more till I was going out 4-6 nights a week and sometimes during the day. There were a LOT of bullshit nights. Nights where I’d go out, wander around for 6 hours, see a bunch of girls I WANTED to approach but pussied out of approaching, then go home not having talked to a soul, kicking myself for being such a loser. Nights where I could tell right from the start that I wasn’t feeling the vibe and would just stick it out through it. So many frustrating depressing unforgiving mentally-draining painful nights, I can’t even describe it in a way that guys who haven’t gone through it could wrap their heads around it.

        But on the flip side I’d have good nights. REALLY good nights. Nights that some people will never experience in their lives. Nights with adrenaline rushes that other people go skydiving and shit to get. There were nights where I’d walk into a 400 person nightclub solo and unknown with no friends there or showing up later, and by midnight EVERYONE in that club would know me by name, love me, be asking to hang out with me if they were dudes, wanting to go home with me or dance with me or make out with me if they were girls, inviting me to parties, buying me drinks, asking other people about me and who I was, etc. There were nights where I basically started the entire party, where managers/bartenders would give me free shit because they watched me doing it and getting their business going for the night. Girls would ask if I owned the bar because they just assumed I must be someone important since so many people knew me. I’d take girls home out of big groups of guys. I’d insta-wing guys and lay the friends of the girls they were hooking up with. I’d go for after-bar food with people I had only just met.

        And I’d do that all in the span of a few hours after walking into the bar solo.
        Consistently, methodically, and 100% on purpose. It was like being a force of nature (socially). I’d bar hop from bar to bar pulling numbers, makeouts, dances, blowjobs, going home with girls, taking girls home, etc.

        To me what happened was at first I’d have 1 good night for every like, 50 shitty nights. Then I’d have 1 good night for every 25 shitty nights. Then I’d have 1 good night for every 10 shitty nights. Eventually I got to a place where I was having 1 good night for each shitty night. Now not all of my nights are awesome, but the majority are a blast.

        The other thing that happens is if you go out consistently and always try to push things, you’ll find that your best night NOW becomes a normal night to you 6 months from now. And your best night 6 months from now will become a normal night to you 6 months from then. At first I’d consider the night shitty if like, I didn’t talk to anyone. Then down the road a shitty night was if I didn’t get any phone numbers. Then down the road a shitty night was if I didn’t get any makeouts. Then it was if I didn’t take a girl home. Then it was if I took a girl home but I was hammered instead of sober. etc. etc.

        Right now I’m slowing up compared to when I was younger and I know what I like and don’t like in a girl because I’ve met so many of them over the years. So in a random nightclub there are only 3 or 4 girls there that are really my “type” and I’ll turn down a lot of easy lays from girls who aren’t my type because I just don’t care, I’ve had enough sex and get it regularly enough (I’ve got a primary girlfriend) that I’m not hard up. And I care more about the “thrill of the hunt” with a chick who’s my type than about just getting my dick wet in a girl I’m not into (I have buddies who ARE like that, so nothing against it, it’s just not for me).

        I’m also focused more on my social circles now so a lot of nights out are just partying with friends celebrating stuff and getting drunk with them and if there’s girls around cool, but I’m not in “gotta find pussy!!!!” mode 24/7 like the first few years. There were actually a couple years near the start where I was annoying as fuck to hang out with because I’d ALWAYS be like “fuck this place sucks there aren’t any girls, let’s go to a different plays guys this blowwwws” when we’re like, in a grocery store lol Pickup and social dynamics are still fascinating to me and I still practice the skillset a lot, but they’re not the focus of my life now.

        3) You’re gonna hit plateaus. It happens to all of us. The worst part is you never really realize you’re on a plateau until you’ve been in it for a while and you realize one day “fuck I’m in a rut”. Generally the solution to plateaus is to figure out what the next level for you is. ie:

        – Are you getting phone numbers regularly but most of them flake on you? Next level is to work on your comfort/rapport stuff till they don’t flake.

        – Are you getting laid all the time, but the girls never want to see you more than one night? Next level to work on it managing buyer’s remorse and playing with some basic relationship game

        – Are you getting laid, and the girls all get attached to you, but none of them are hot enough to brag about to your buddies? Time to stop banging uggos and step up to the turbo girls in the club that you’ve been avoiding and making excuses not to approach

        – Are you getting laid, and the girls are super hot, but none of them are really your type or high-quality to you beyond their looks? Time to start qualifying girls and learning to screen for qualities you like, and approaching girls outside of just nightclubs

        – Are you getting laid, but you don’t have any friends beyond a few bar buddies and you’re getting tired of spending all your free time in bars? Time to start expanding your social circles in general where you’ll end up doing other activities and building solid friendships

        The key is that you have to understand what exactly your plateau/rut is about. What’s the thing that’s quiety nagging at you? If you can explain it, I can probably give you a direction to head in, but that thing that’s nagging at you is deeply personal to you specifically and to narrow down and admit what it is can sometimes be embarrassing (ie – “I get laid a lot, but it’s with just fatties and hammered girls…”), but hey, you won’t get any judgement from me lol I’ve been there. 😛

        Also the game never ends. Tyler is still learning/solidifying things, so am I, so is every PUA who regularly goes out. That’s why when people ask “how long did it take?” it’s hard to answer without a big long story like above…because the game is about self-improvement and developing your lifestyle and learning to become a man, and that really “takes” the rest of your life. 🙂


      • “why would I hang out with a girl if we’re not fucking?”

        This is precisely what I think whenever I read storiesarticles about the friendzone. Never been friendzoned before, don’t even understand how does one get there.


      • on June 16, 2012 at 7:49 pm Andrew Medina

        I’m with you on this. The dude in question is nowhere near the point to actually use this advice. This is why I focused so much on inner game and frame control. I knew I needed to address a lot of issues with myself and how I interact with the world before moving forward.

        Can I read your blog please?


  13. “Alpha male? Yes. Admirable man? You tell me. bit.ly/M1WKxm”

    I think the father of the bride is pretty admirable.


    • If men can’t criticize those kinds of sociopathic d-bags because they’re afraid it’ll make them look “beta,” then all is lost.


      • beta if their wife control every fucking thing in their relationship
        and that’s something you can’t hide.

        There’s no way a she-man can publicly act like a submissive women when it’s socially sanctioned to be a bitch.


    • No respect for guys like this even if they’re alpha.

      If you can’t commit, don’t get married. As a man, you should know yourself and what you want in life. If that isn’t commitment, then don’t commit. That’s why I don’t do monogamous relationships.

      A guy who promises monogamy and then cheats behind his girl’s back is a guy who 1) his word is worthless, 2) he doesn’t know himself or his desires/goals which is pretty weak in terms of being a man, and 3) he’s too pussy to break it off (whether it’s because it’d be difficult/uncomfortable work to do, or he can’t handle the social pressure of calling off a relationship for a “shallow” reason, or he’s in scarcity and scared to lose his girl and be alone).

      Bride’s dad handled that situ like a boss.


      • “A guy who promises monogamy and then cheats behind his girl’s back is a guy who 1) his word is worthless, 2) he doesn’t know himself or his desires/goals which is pretty weak in terms of being a man, and 3) he’s too pussy to break it off”

        Then Italian guys aren’t real men? You sound like a grrrrl.


      • 😥

        Friendship OVER.


      • naah. An alpha is perfectly entitled to the best of both worlds. Monogamy (from her part) and loving companionship, plus a string of flings to satiate the desire of variety.
        Your principles don’t lead nowhere, Yareally. What if a guy wants a family but cannot stand the idea of eternal monogamy? What if a woman he loves dumps him because she cannot stand the arrangement?
        The idea of open relationships is a joke for most of the readers here so don’t try bringing it up.

        A alpha who “cheats” discreetly doesn’t lose his honorable man status. A female who cheats is a worthless cumdumpster. Double standards…

        But the guy in the article is a scumbag. Discretion is key. And timing too. The wedding day is the worst timing of all.


      • “An alpha is perfectly entitled to the best of both worlds. Monogamy (from her part) and loving companionship, plus a string of flings to satiate the desire of variety.”

        I don’t disagree. That’s how I like my relationships ideally.

        “What if a guy wants a family but cannot stand the idea of eternal monogamy?”

        Then he sets up an open relationship with his girl from the start. You can raise a family in an open marriage. It requires a lot of discretion and some tight game but there are entire sections of PUA knowledge dedicated to managing m(multiple)LTRs, o(open)LTRs, open marriages, raising kids in these situations, etc.

        “What if a woman he loves dumps him because she cannot stand the arrangement?”

        You are asking “What if a guy likes fish, but his girl dumps him because she cannot stand him eating fish?” Does he stop eating fish for her? Or does he have abundance and say “ok cool” and find a girl who likes fish? And when he picks up does he pretend not to like fish, or does he let the girl know straight up from the get go that he likes fish so he screens out girls who ultimately wouldn’t be compatible with him for him to have his ideal life in the long-term?


        She may get mad down the road in an open relationship, but that’s where the game and game teachings about managing that come in.

        “The idea of open relationships is a joke for most of the readers here so don’t try bringing it up.”

        I’m not here to stroke your cock and tell you the world owes you a pot of gold. I’m telling you there is a way to make this work and if you’re a man who’s fully explored relationships with women and fully knows himself and understands game, you can make it work.

        It won’t be easy. You’ll probably fuck up a bunch. But who the fuck said any of this was easy? lol

        “A alpha who “cheats” discreetly doesn’t lose his honorable man status.”

        An alpha who cheats loses respect to me. An alpha who’s been up front with his girl and let her know from the start that he may have flings on the side and then has those flings discreetly isn’t cheating, so I can respect that arrangement. He doesn’t have to rub it in her face and be like “hey, do I smell like Sarah’s pussy? Because I was just eating her out!” but he shouldn’t promise commitment if he has no intention of honoring it. That’s pussy behavior that’s based in having a scarcity mentality (“but what if she leaves me!!! I can’t GET another girl!!!11”) and in not having the balls to admit what you want as a man and not settle for less (“I’m not eating fish anymore, Janice won’t let me 😦 so I don’t do it because I’m scared of making demands or standing up for what I want…”)

        “But the guy in the article is a scumbag. Discretion is key. And timing too. The wedding day is the worst timing of all.”

        lol agreed there. Tho I was going to fuck a girl in her wedding dress a few days before her wedding. You’d be surprised how much “well I never plan to get married so this could be my only chance to fuck a bride in a wedding dress” made logical sense to her hamster lol Her conscience kicked in though so we’re taking a break. 🙂


      • Because I talk a lot:

        Guys who cheat behind their girl’s back are generally guys in three categories:

        1) They have no moral qualms with cheating. Hate the playa not the game bla bla and they secretly love a little drama. They just don’t have the game skills to arrange relationships in an ideal way and don’t believe it’s possible to set up the frame of “I’m allowed to sleep around and you’re not” with a girl. So basically they have no game and don’t care about eventually hurting the girl their with, not because they’re bad people but just because they don’t know there’s a better way to do things or figure it’s too much work.


        2) They’re guys who legit thought they were ready to settle down, and promised monogamy. Then realized once they were in the relationship and the honeymoon period died down, that they aren’t done playing around because that cute new girl at work is giving them the eye and she makes their wiener tingle. Or their ex called them up and they realize they still have chemistry with her and kinda sorta wanna maybe secretly bang her once or twice.

        In other words the second type of guys didn’t get enough sexual experience/variety in their lives and didn’t do enough self-analysis to learn enough about themselves, their desires, their needs, and what makes them happy in their life, to know that they weren’t ready to settle down. And so instead of manning up and admitting they aren’t done yet and risking losing their girl (scarcity) or even admitting to themselves that they weren’t as ready for commitment as they thought they were, they sneak around cheating behind her back like a little pussy.


        3) They were ready to settle, but then their chick let themselves go in both looks and personality and now they’re gross unpleasant fatty fats and they would’ve been 100% committed and faithful if their girl had stayed in shape and not become a dickhead but instead they’re stuck and on top of it have kids with the girl (back when she was hot). Those guys are pretty fucked lol They needed to learn game before they got into that whole mess. These are the only type of guys that I can excuse for cheating because with the way divorce courts rape guys and the way that no one can predict the fatty-fat grenade exploding ahead of time, these guys were duped and trapped in an un-winnable situation.

        So the third type of guy I cut some slack because his situation wasn’t his own fault. Whereas the first two types of guys’ situations were entirely their own doing.

        So there’s my views. Believe it or not, I DO have a moral code, it just isn’t the same as most people’s. 😛


      • “and don’t believe it’s possible to set up the frame of “I’m allowed to sleep around and you’re not” with a girl.”

        If you got tips about that, I’m all ears.

        My whole opinion is based on the fact that it’s very difficuly, and most of the time impossible to set up such a frame.
        I’m only convinced that some women can put up with their man’s infidelities if he proved over the years that he’s alpha as fuk.
        And even then, there is a risk that she might cheat so that “he’d feel what (she) feel(s)”.

        And that’s the undesirable outcome that the guys you’re criticizing are more or less consciously trying to avoid.


      • “They don’t believe it’s possible to set up the frame of “I’m allowed to sleep around and you’re not” with a girl.”

        Pretty hard frame to set with really hot girls who have options with other alpha guys who would be monogamous with her. Girls with the type of personalities that most guys want for LTRs (i.e. girls with good self-esteem who come from good families), would be the least likely to go for this frame.

        Discreet cheating is less drama, easier, and in a way its actually polite.


      • You can’t reject one half of the morality pie and keep the other half. men and women are fundamentally different, Therefore men in fact if he chooses to can have a relatively secure relations for purpose of procreation while getting on the side for variety and extreme outlet. In doing so he is doing what has been ordained in the natural order, getting kids from a relatively better quality woman with higher chances of faithfulness and the wife gets commitment, and advantage of the status and other benefits of being the guy’s wife while at the same time the dude bangs hoes on the side for variety and extreme outlet.well cause they are hoes. Just the way nature intended or at least a little closer to nature than other methods.


      • aww, that’s cute, you guys have a bunch of “theories” on why it “couldn’t” work because you’ve never done it before and don’t know how.

        And you think you have to have a negotiation with the girl? Like you’re going to convince her with logic? Maybe draw up a pros and cons list? I mean, that’s how you pick up a hot girl right? You list the pros and cons of why it makes logical sense that she should be with you instead of some other guy? And she rationally listens to your very logical fair analysis and deal offer and then makes a completely unemotional decision that’s always based on a mutually beneficial deal?

        Re-read your own comments looking for the parts where you revert back to “no longer the Chateau’s game principles” while you mull that sarcasm over, I’ll write up an actual YaReally-length comment breaking down how to set an “I can fuck around but you can’t” frame with a girl (yes even a good marriage material girl (“game only workz on whorezzz!!!! Quality girlz wouldn’t fall for your trickery!!!”)).

        I’m in one of these relationships now, and most of my relationships have been this setup (its all i do since my last monogamous relationship where I was miserable not wanting to cheat on her but not happy being monogamous). I have a PUA buddy who’s been in one for like 6 years with a girl he plans to have kids with. One of my natural player buddies sets this frame up with even his fuckbuddies. Etc etc. Like I say PUAs have broken down EVERYTHING from the pickup to long term relationships, it’s the MSM and “skim the surface” Aunt Sue type bloggers who paint us as only knowing how to pick girls up but not being able to maintain long term relationships.

        Anyway I’ll write some explanations up for you. But it’s advanced shit, you won’t be able to do it if you’re a newb lol once you get the hang of it it’s easier.


      • on June 16, 2012 at 3:14 pm Art Vandelay

        just saying your stories are much appreciated.


      • “Then he sets up an open relationship with his girl from the start. You can raise a family in an open marriage. It requires a lot of discretion and some tight game but there are entire sections of PUA knowledge dedicated to managing m(multiple)LTRs, o(open)LTRs, open marriages, raising kids in these situations, etc.”

        With all due respect, that makes me puke. And I’m a part-timer in secret society, so it’s not because I’m an uptight MRA who is afraid of female sexuality.
        If you like the idea that the mother of your kids that you provide for is getting plowed by random dicks on the side, knock yourself out. Although that’s cuckold fetish territory… I’m not even discussing paternity certainty because I’m sure pua forums found out about contraception pills.

        I ma be mistaking but I sense that you have an equalist mindset. “If I do this, my girl can do it too”.
        You need some patriarchal wisdom, not only knocking women out of the pedestal, cause I’m sure you’ve already done it, but place yourself on the fucking pedestal. You got the dick, you got the power.

        I’m sure open marriages can work for a certain breed of don’t-give-a-fuck alphas, but most men are deeply unconfortable with their women straying, not because they can’t understand the nature of female desire, but because it strikes some very sensitive ancient hindbrain chords. You can’t fight biology.

        Marriage is a necessity for family-minded men. And the faithfulness of their wives is a necessity too (in the sense that any “mistake” is a deal-breaker). Some alpha family guys can lose their minds if they don’t their sexual variety fix. An open relationship is an unacceptable solution. Life doesn’t owe anyone a pot of gold, but most alphas are gonna take it anyway. That’s what alphas do. Pointing your fingers at them because it’s unfair for their poor poor little wives is just useless. Better accept it as a biological necessity and don’t consider it a faux-pas.

        “but he shouldn’t promise commitment if he has no intention of honoring it. That’s pussy behavior that’s based in having a scarcity mentality (“but what if she leaves me!!! I can’t GET another girl!!!11″)”

        No, it’s cold-blooded realism, because not giving a commitment can deprive you from marriage and a family, and revealing your intentions can scare the woman away.
        It’s not that you can’t get another girl, it’s that you will have the same problem with the next girl.

        Besides, this arrangement worked for high-status males (and their wives) for centuries. Open relationships sound like an unnecessary concession under the zeitgeist of feminized brainwashing.

        I know that this is a borderline ideological debate, and I don’t want to split haire. Just want to clarify a few things and leave it at that.

        Peace out lol.


      • The part you’re forgetting is the girl’s hypergamy. How do you think that would come into play in an open marriage arrangement?

        Think on that while I write a longer explanation lol


      • Exactly. As was said here recently, girls don’t want to hear about you cheating anymore than they want to hear about you taking a dump.


      • I found a perfect solution for women that would like to satiate your alpha mate variety need without the cheating going on.

        Get a wig of a blond,brunette, redhead or whatever color you fancy,
        rent some cheap hotel and uniforms or disguises a create your own fantasy ‘affair’.

        Do some kegel exercices to play with the sensation and intensity of tour orgasms

        if you already tried all of these and still need to cheat BREAK UP


      • lol I actually prefer girls who are into dressing up in various outfits/costumes for sex. It really DOES feel kind of like banging different girls. I always try to screen for this but a lot of girls think just showing up naked is the best outfit to every man.


    • nah, that doesn’t really count because he was drunk.


  14. From my own experience, point number 5 is VERY true.

    Back in my naive beta days, I fluked myself out of the friend zone with one chick. In hindsight I can see that she fell for me because 1) I distanced myself from her and 2) she either saw or heard about me hooking up with other girls.


  15. omg. Holy DHV Batman
    What with the new posterkidz
    …will the the chateau
    turn into stylelife forum??

    Tune in next week.


  16. on June 14, 2012 at 3:42 pm The Chosen One

    I don’t understand how bad some guys can be with girls. When you got a chubby at 5 years old, your body was telling you your mission. When you’re 10 and you saw your first sweater puppets, you figured out your mission. When you’re 15 you fulfilled your mission. Get your dicks wet men. It’s what you were put on this planet to do.


  17. “Rollo, how do I get out of the Friend-Zone?”

    Never allow yourself to get into it.



  18. on June 14, 2012 at 3:58 pm Senior Beta

    ‘fuse attached to her hamster’s anus.” Got to stop drinking beer for lunch. All over the computer now.


  19. Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you’re not fucking her, you’re her girlfriend.

    Get it out of your head now that you’re even in a so called “friend zone” with any woman. There is no friend zone – there is only the limbo between you being fooled that a girl is actually a friend on an equitable level to your same sex friends, and you understanding that as soon as she becomes intimate with another guy your attentions will become a liability to any relationship she might want to have with the new sexual interest and she puts you off.


    • on June 14, 2012 at 4:22 pm Backdoor Man

      I have female friends. Honestly. One of them I even regard as a great, almost-best friend. We used to work together, and we’re both married, so there was never any confusion about our friendship. We just connected from the beginning, and can talk for hours about pretty much anything. It’s not the same as having a guy friend, and it’s not the same as talking to the wife. We were both in our mid to late 30s when we met, so maybe it is something I had to be older to appreciate


      • Such friendships are nearly always based on base attraction from one or both of the parties though.

        I’ve either subtly or not so subtly LJBFed female friends, either that or the attraction/flirting is obvious but it’s prevented by existing relationships or logistics (e.g. work org chart). I do agree that things get easier at a certain level of maturity because you’re both less likely to fuck up your life for a fling.


    • @Rollo,

      Correct – there is no friend zone…


  20. on June 14, 2012 at 4:11 pm Newly Aloof (formally BD)

    Broken Arrow’s tactic of finding girl’s kinky sides is indeed wizardry! Should have thought of that way back in the day. I could see that working wonders back in my blue pill days. That method is the perfect short-cut for Beta’s to use in parallel until they master Game.


  21. Segue like a diabetic tourist.

    i loled.


  22. “Segue like a diabetic tourist.” Couldn’t stop laughing.


  23. on June 14, 2012 at 4:33 pm Steve McCroskey

    This is probably a good post to ask for advice under. There’s a hot new girl in my group at work, a solid 8, that I’m handling some training for and also doing a 4-day business trip with soon. Just us two, same flights, hotels, etc the whole time. I’m 33, she’s 26. As background there are almost no decent looking women at the large multinational I work at, and I’m the only guy in our group. I’m switching jobs soon anyway, possibly to a different company, but should I attempt to game this chick or just establish alpha cred for later when a sexual harassment suit is less of a threat?


    • You won’t have any alpha cred if you don’t push her now.


    • on June 14, 2012 at 4:58 pm Newly Aloof

      @Steve: Develop a twisted hotel-related fetish and tell her about it before you leave.


    • on June 14, 2012 at 5:06 pm Rick Derris


      Do the latter – “just establish alpha cred for later when a sexual harassment suit is less of a threat.” Seriously, don’t try anything on the trip, even if you’ve already agreed to the new job *before* the trip. If you’re both still at the same company then there is still a risk.

      Besides, the “scarcity” parameter can help you out in this situation, so play it up.


    • on June 14, 2012 at 5:47 pm Days of Broken Arrows

      You can make up an imaginary/sometime girlfriend as a placeholder until you leave the company. Then when you meet up again there will be no g/f and no threat of a sex harassment suit, so both of you will probably feel the weight off your shoulders.


    • Don’t shit where you eat, man.


      • I second that notion !


      • I’m a big fan of pinching a footlong stinker right on the breakroom table.

        – are you both approx at the same job level, not her supervisor, etc ?
        – is she in a different dept/floor/place where you don’t stare at each other all day?
        – does she seem discreet? not crazy?
        – are you in it for an LTR?
        – is HR against relationships or just “sexual harassment”? Anyone else in the office dating?

        If so, shit away. Work is a great place to meet people because you instantly have a connection.


  24. I’m not saying you’re not right about this, but man, that’s a lot of work. For most guys who aren’t semiprofessional gamers, just ignore the girl. Unless she’s a virgin supermodel, there are others out there that are better. If she responds by pursuing you (which she will do more and more brazenly if she really cares), fine. If not, fine too.

    But seriously, do not, ever, be friends with girls who talk about how they are repeatedly being used as cum dumpsters and want your sympathies. For the sake of all that is good, just don’t do it. Might as well go befriend some toothless crack whore. At least then you can have deep, drawn out conversations about the generally poor state of American dentistry or something.


  25. on June 14, 2012 at 5:11 pm Senior Beta

    Re: Rollo’s comment about there being no friend zone. Catholic equivalent – purgatory. You don’t want to be there.


  26. Fucking EPIC lulz:

    Man, it’s like they recorded a day in my life lol Love how the guys are just like “what? no it’s just pottery!” and “of course I have to take off my shirt for this picture that makes complete sense doo dee doo” with big grins on their face.

    Here’s the thread with a bunch more in it:



    • Hey YaReally. Please expand on how you made that transition from virgin to banging left and right.

      1) How long did it take?
      2) What kind of work did you put in?
      3) what advice to you give to an intermediate looking to do better?

      I’ve come along way but kind of feel like I’m in a rut now.



    • Hilarious.

      Funny, tho, none of them actually caught on to the ruse. Chicks never act that brazen. Unless they are trying to get something…like ratings for the box. Or they’re chicks in training – trannies.

      Balls of steel my right barnacle.


      • “Chicks never act that brazen.”

        Maybe not for YOU… 😉

        haha no seriously tho, these girls have badass game. They’re actually using some solid AMOG stuff on the girlfriends. The best is how they purposely piss the GF off then drop the “wow is she always this possessive?” thing or “she seems like she’s not a fun person” reframing the girl’s totally normal reactions as DLVs. thats wicked-smooth because the girl cant escape that label trap.

        Unfortunately a guy would resort to fists WAY faster than a girl so being as in-his-face like they are is a lot riskier. You can use the same principles but just 1) more subtly and 2) preferably when the guy isn’t within earshot.

        If a guy from a girl’s group comes over to “save” her because he has a crush on her and he tries to tool me or anything, as soon as he leaves I say to her “wow I think your boyfriend is jealous of me lol” which is similar to these girls labeling the GFs as lame. The guy can’t escape the label and if he’s not actually her BF I get an instant “oh he’s not my BF!! No no he’s just a friend” which is the green light ioi for me to go “oh good then he won’t mind this…” and escalate on her. 🙂


      • “Maybe not for YOU… ”

        Ya, can’t argue that point. But have seen milder forms of the fancied interference. I just brushed them off. The one whom I’m with gets my attention.

        Definately guys are more the powder keg. On a number of occasions when younger and prettier I’d been treated to the get lost treatment for just merely being in the same general area casting a few glances or simply minding my own affairs. I generally leave couples alone regardless of who she’s with. Everyone needs to get out so I’m not going to put a run on his due. But that’s just me.

        However, your approach has been noted.


  27. on June 14, 2012 at 5:35 pm Count Chocula

    I’m not vibing with this post. If a girl hangs out with you as a friend and you want her as more, then don’t do that.

    The space of not seeing her shouldn’t come from a tactic to get her, it should come from avoiding wasting your time on a girl who is showing no interest in putting out.

    Whatever happened to the three date rule? How is it you let yourself get in a position of having a drawn out non-sexual relationship when that’s not your aim?

    There is a girl I’ve had some dates with who once told me “I don’t think of you in that way”. We were already naked in bed, and I’d been playing with her pussy, as had happened on previous dates. This was like the third time I had her naked, and she never even sucked my dick. And she was a virgin at thirty. She’d pull that same stunt on all the boys. She wasn’t even putting out a proper rape-me vibe. It was like I was masturbating her.

    So naturally I stopped calling her. She’d told me that’s what all the boys do – eventually just lose interest and stop calling. Last time she asked for a meet up I flaked. Could I turn this around and get out of the “friend zone”? Why bother? Where’s the passion? Where’s the heat?

    When I date, I date with a purpose. There is no friend zone. I’m not interested in being friends. Either you find the heat, or you don’t. I have no use for a woman who “decides” to fuck me. She’s got to be hungry for my dick like she’s starving.

    I don’t see the purpose of dating as seeing if you can sneak your snake in. I’ve been in enough girls that I’m not about numbers. I want to make a passionate connection. A girl who isn’t seeing me that way isn’t even a challenge – she’s a waste of time.

    I think much of the skill of dating is about knowing what indicators of interest are, and then expanding on that. If a girl has been around you for a while and isn’t giving you any sort of fuck me vibe, then there is nothing more to talk about. Unless your in a long dry spell and need to relieve some tension, it would be pointless to fuck her. Tepid sex sets up bad habits in your body.


    • on June 16, 2012 at 3:37 am The Whammer

      Chocho, a girl’s in bed with you naked and you didn’t fuck her? lol Well, I may be old fashioned but if a female even comes home with me she’s consenting to sex. Females used to know this.


  28. on June 14, 2012 at 5:53 pm Count Chocula

    There are several main areas of concern regarding winning over women.

    Outer game, including your social status, financial status, appearance, fitness, etc.
    Inner game which comes from many experiences of success and overcoming adversities

    And then there is just meeting girls. Screening girls. Doing what it takes to find that one in a 10 or one in 50 or one in a 1000 girl who you click with.

    You can work it so that a greater percentage of girls click with you. But still, this third main area of game is going to be important, if you want to click with the girl.

    We all have nasty dry spells, and when lonely we are prone to inappropriate romantic feelings. So it takes discipline to pull away and work hard like it’s your job as a man to get the fuck out there and meet other girls. Cast a wider net, go to new venues, travel, change career, move to a new city – whatever. Just cast a wide enough net so that you don’t have to focus on a situation that is setup to be unsatisfying.


  29. on June 14, 2012 at 6:09 pm Count Chocula

    Has anyone here ever had a satisfying relationship come out of a friend zone situation? Of the girls I’ve fucked who I was into more than they were into me, none of them made me feel deep joy or satisfaction. There was always unease and tension and want. Never that joy you get from a deep mutual communion of ecstasy.

    It is painful when you feel more passion than the girl does. I don’t think any of us actually want that. Sometimes nothing is actually better, because nothing is a better motivator than something that isn’t good enough.

    Actually, I only remember one girl I fucked I was into but who wasn’t much into me. The rest I was just trying to fuck. That was long ago, in another, much more frustrating and stupid lifetime.

    I remember some girls leading me to believe that I had a chance at opening a sexual door. Plenty of girls are teases who do that with plenty of boys, with no intention or desire to actually put out, out of some sick twisted desire for attention. Their phones are full of numbers of boys who aren’t getting her.

    I remember being stupid enough to have unrequited love for a girl showed no interest.

    I remember fucking some whore and getting feelings for her, even though she was clearly a professional slut.

    All of those mistakes of the heart arose out of lack of experience. Lack of perspective. They weren’t much about lack of seduction skill. They were about wasting investing my interest into a bad situation.

    Game is at least 1/3 about knowing where to invest your interest.


  30. You should see what happens when you tell them you are in love with someone else. Even the one who had become a lesbian reacted sharply! The one who was straight would have been available except she had made he hate her by then (hadn’t talked in several years; called her then because the new relationship was my red pill moment.)
    Actually, if you live in different towns from the LJBF, you could try this and tell her about the wild sex, then turn to the LJBF when “she” decides to marry the rich guy and just be fuckbuddies with you.
    Also, I have established real friendships with women:
    You are higher sex rank
    You did have a relationship


    • on June 16, 2012 at 3:28 am The Whammer

      Sure Dale, because females of a high enough quality to get a rich man to marry them are always looking for omega fuckbuddies


  31. “You’d be better off pawning that girl buddy into social circle game with her hot, and relatively unfamiliar, friends.”

    Bingo. Most helpful piece of advice in the whole article. Bring the girl out as a pivot or a wing, and you’re get further, faster.

    The only reason I would ever try to get out of the friend zone is if I were pretty resentful of being there in the first place, and wanted to get revenge by making a girl fall for me, aggressively defiling her, and then putting HER in the friend zone afterward.


  32. on June 14, 2012 at 7:10 pm Simon Corso

    I started reading this blog to hone my game skills.

    I keep coming back for lines like this.

    ” Wham. Game dynamite with the fuse attached right to her hamster’s anus. “


  33. So what if I started banging a girl who originally friendzoned me and then she started sleeping with my best friend while simultaneously sleeping with me? Things got weird, there was drama, I basically cut-off contact for three weeks, naturally she texted me yesterday asking me when I’d come back to the city, she missed me, blah. I know she’s been sleeping with my other friend the entire time though. Would it even be worth it to start it up again? I’m thinking my efforts would be better spent elsewhere, problem is the is one of the more intelligent girls I know (bookish ones are my weakness).


  34. got LJBF’d, fell out of contact after she felt awkward, but wouldn’t trying to get back in touch after that put me in a bad spot?


  35. nice recovery, H


  36. I think altering your look helps too. Literally she sees you in a different way, so her perception of you is more likely to shift. Time apart followed by a new look followed by your suggestions/general tight game is optimal. If you’re in school, and your crush LJBFed you, go get an expensive haircut and maintain it until school starts again.


  37. I agree with a lot of things in this article but there are a few things I’d like to point out.

    1. If a guy was friend zoned in the first place chances are he isn’t very congruent with the end goal here. She will probably smell the fact that he is trying to trick her from a mile away. Sure if a guy follow your playbook by the T he has a chance of breaking out but what are the chances he really does do a good job being outcome independent during the whole thing?

    2. I don’t necessarily think you need to do all the “tell her she is being needy” and “accuse her of flirting with you” stuff. That just seems try hard. You don’t have to be that cocky. Maybe that’s why you need to do, I don’t think it’s personally necessary.

    3. Doesn’t all that “oh man I miss the old you” “you are trying to ruin our friendship” ect stuff lack congruence when you move to her vagina?

    I think you could accomplish the same end goal by doing half of what you said and after a while of not talking to her just saying something to the effect of “I actually realized I’m not that interested in being friends with you anymore” (which you aren’t) and when she asks why just saying you aren’t. If you did a good job being sexual in front of her when you did hang out, she gets it. Much less trickery, much more honesty, tends to get you the result you need, at least in my experience. I don’t really get friend zoned that often though without me deciding that’s what I want so I guess my advice is slightly biased.


  38. Heh, OT: Proof that feminism (i.e. giving women more freedom) correlates with cuckoldry http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2012/06/do-world-religions-make-cuckoldry.html


  39. i got out of the friendzone with a chick i liked by never calling her, never responding to her SMS’s, never smiling when i saw her out (just the head nod greeting then back to talking to some other girl, ideally), never so much as looking in her direction until she had spent 10 mins waiting to be approached and then came over to join me, then being a total jerk and a massive smart arse towards her non stop.


  40. of course i didnt get her home again until after a whole year of doing that to make up for being too needy after i got her to come home with me the first time. so yeah, easier to start afresh with a different chick, to be sure.


  41. yo, Heartis te , its almost friday, Father’s day weekend man happpy father’s day in advance


  42. “You should be flirting all the time and dropping bits of sexual innuendo. Let a girl know, through subtle cues, that you are a sexual creature right up front. This is what successful players mean by “make your intentions known”.

    Did I miss something? How does this square with Mystery’s admonishment to always disqualify up front. Never let a girl know you are pursuing her, or you lose social status.

    Just askin’.


  43. on June 15, 2012 at 10:19 am RappaccinisDaughter

    There are a million stories in the Friendzone City. Here are three of them:

    1. He was in a band. I’d been “just friend”-ing him for about six months. One day while he was hanging out at a mutual friend’s house, he yanked a guitar out of the lead guitarist’s hands, plugged it into the amp, and played Dick Dale’s “Miserlou,” staring at me the whole time. He then put the guitar down and said, “Come here.” And I did.
    (He was very, very alpha. A total prick, too, but that part came later.)

    2. I’d been “just friend”-ing him for three years. There was a party. A lot of alcohol. I was drunk but not out-of-control, room-spinning drunk. We went outside for a smoke and I was playfully refusing to give him one of mine. He started playing grab-ass and tickling me to get it away from me. Then we were kissing. Turned into a brief but very intense relationship that flamed out–his choice!–after which we became friends again.
    (I guess most people would call him a lesser beta, but you’ve got to give him credit for sacking up and going for it. I sure did.)

    3. I’d been “just friend”-ing him for a year and a half. Unlike the two above, whom I really never suspected of being interested in me until they made a move, I knew this one liked me. His soft, moist eyes would follow me whenever I was in the room. The problem was that although I liked him quite a lot as a person, I was not attracted to him at all. He smelled odd to me. (Go ahead and call me a freak; smell is very important to me and there are a number of studies about human response to pheromones that help explain this.) One night, once again, there was a party. A lot of alcohol. A plausible excuse to get me alone. And then a POUNCE. Just this big desperate grab, with hands going everywhere and a big slobbery kiss that landed on the point of my jaw as I turned my face away. Turned into me avoiding him like the plague and feeling very guilty about it.
    (Also a lesser beta, but one who simply would not ever have been able to overcome my visceral lack of attraction to him. But if he’d at least tested the waters the way #2 above did, I’d have been able to give him a graceful “out.”)

    I hope that this is helpful to someone out there.


    • @RappaccinisDaughter: Yes, it’s helpful all right. It helps confirm just how flaky and unstable women really are.


    • ” Turned into a brief but very intense relationship that flamed out–his choice!–after which we became friends again.
      (I guess most people would call him a lesser beta”

      So he fucked you hard in every hole, then ditched you. Yup, lesser beta’s just what I was thinking.


    • Thanks. It helped me realize that you’re a loose slut.


  44. Long time reader, never posted. Thought you should see this one tho…



  45. on June 15, 2012 at 1:38 pm increasing stats.

    Not a friend-zone issue.

    I’m studying at uni and sharing a house with a bunch of girls. I’m dominant and alpha so they’re all attracted to me. There are two girls i want to fuck but one more than the other. She flirts with me and gives me the fuck me eyes often.

    How do i do it though? I want to limit the awkwardness by not being too bold because we all live in the same place and all that.

    Isolate and escalate? Any tips on how to do that?


    • on June 16, 2012 at 3:24 am The Whammer

      So you’re living in a house with the stink of females. That alone makes you sound omega.


      • @The Whammer — agree with you.


      • And why is that? I just moved from another country a few months ago for uni.


      • Pretty uncool behavior to call someone asking for advice an omega.

        Would an omega ask for advice in the first place?

        Anyway, I’d be grateful if anyone experienced could offer me some advice, because I’m still learning stuff.

        Also i could go fuck other chicks and i will, it’s just that she’s here and i want to fuck her, either now or eventually, so yeah…


  46. on June 15, 2012 at 2:40 pm Shrimp Po Boy

    Hit her again, Chris! And this time put some STANK on it!


  47. on June 15, 2012 at 2:49 pm cuckooclock

    How do you keep a girl though as a friend only? When you want her as just a friend, but she wants more? Is it even possible. You know what’s even harder than getting out of the friendzone, is remaining in it when the girl’s into you but you just want to be friends. Maybe I’m a pussy but I really do like having a girl only as a friend, and I like “using” her for emotional support just as much as the opposite.

    I tried this last year with a girl who was pretty, educated, whatever, and for a number of reasons I don’t want to get in here, I didn’t want her as anything more than a friend. Well it got totally insane because she did want me and pursued me relentlessly for months. After I gave in the relationship was just awful as I knew it would be. Now she hates me and we don’t talk anymore. It’s happened to me before in some variations. I try to remain friends, the girl wants me, it gets very uncomfortable, it’s impossible.

    I’ve tried everything from setting her up with other guys to making very explicit “hints” I wasn’t interested and nothing works. Meanwhile the friendship is not what it could be because she’s too interested in winning me over.

    Is there any way around this? Is remaining in the friendzone possible when she’s after you? Is it even possible to be friends with a girl.

    Hell has no fury…


  48. on June 15, 2012 at 5:28 pm The Whammer

    Friendzone? Give up and just drop her and move on to someone else and never get in the friendzone again.


  49. A girl I banged twice started to bore me…so I put HER in my Friendzone.

    She texts all the time, wants to come over, always trying to set things up.

    I do to her what chicks used to do to me….reply, tease…once in a while meet up….

    But am not that keen to bang her again because it was so myeh…


  50. I can’t even become platonic friends with a woman, they think I’m “creepy” and so I can’t even use them for their social network.


  51. I wonder if the “make her catatonic” thing would get someone out of the friend zone.


  52. “Leave her on a good (i.e. congruent) note. But leave her for at least two weeks. During the interim, if your LJBF is strong, she will attempt to contact you asking why, as a friend, you’ve been incommunicado. Again, chastise her for being needy, and tell her you’ve been busy. Do not explain yourself beyond that.”
    HOLY SHIT , this is what gramps used to tell me when I was a needy herby schlub just out of puberty. at that time I couldn’t understand why he’s keep callin’ me pussy and I just thought that his advice is just too “offensive” or “rude”. too bad the old man is dead you would’ve gotten along well


  53. […] never get put there in the first place. Getting out of it is way harder. If you do, follow these and these […]