Putting The Penis On A Pedestal

One of the biggest problems of our phallocentric culture is the constant pampering to the superficial behavior of men. The dating arena is a prime example of this. I won’t ridicule mainstream dating advice. That the “golddigger” strategy is dubious at best should be common knowledge by now. Instead, I want to attack a particular corner of the Internet that proclaims that they have the solution to the dating problem: the so-called “women’s issues” community. A lot of the criticism applies to the “glamourmagosphere” as well, though.

What struck me always as absurd was that those alleged relationship madams didn’t teach women to “woman up”. No, not in the “be a real woman and get a high-paying career so you can marry a grateful niceguy after you’ve had your fun”, but for real. They just don’t tell you to stand up for yourself. No, instead you are supposed to become an expert on cosmetology, fashion, exercise science, gossip, looking your best, behaving in a sweet feminine manner, and all kinds of frivolous nonsense. This alone should make any reasonably smart woman very skeptical. Even if this stuff worked — wouldn’t you want to have an at least halfway intelligent man instead, since as we know intelligence and primal biological sexual preferences are mutually exclusive?

That’s not all, because mainstream relationship madams also tell you how you should react to his ambiguous behavior. They call it “charming” when he’s acting flirty towards you, and tell you to “just keep making him chase you, girl!” Do you know what any girl with an inkling of self-respect would do? If he’s charming, you just move on, but if he’s really sexy and dangerous, you can just tell him to go fuck himself. Amazingly, some men are so damned sexy that they’ll get turned off by that and next you.

The men you’re interacting with are supposed to be adults, but if he behaves like a high value man with options, you have the choice of either confronting him or trying to change his behavior. Have fun with that! What also works is to not bother with him and looking for a more mature man instead. By “mature” I don’t mean some boring man with no game, but a man with a modicum of mental maturity who has a bug up his ass about the idea of having to impress the opposite sex. Mental maturity depends on a cultivated resentment that there exist two sexes with differing reproductive goals and psychologies that must be accommodated if one is to make it through life as something more than a loveless loser. There are plenty of shockingly immature normal people who don’t carry chips on their shoulders — men and women — around.

Let me just dwell on this topic a bit longer. Probably any girl who ever agreed to go out on a date with a man, or went along with it when he wanted to “hang out” will have experienced that some men just won’t commit. No, they don’t toss you out of bed. Instead, they just don’t show up three months later. A smart way of dealing with this problem is to make the man wait a little for sex so that you can tell if he’s the type just looking for a fun time or if he’s really into you and wants a deeper relationship.

It is not the case that men are unaware that they are cagey about commitment. I guess the “matriarchy” keeps them down so that they can’t pick out a ring and marry you, or just say “I don’t want a relationship” in the first place. What do those ridiculous dating madams aka your grandmas tell you, though? They talk about “getting Mr. Right”. You’re supposed to keep showing cleavage and dressing sexily and putting on make-up and watching your figure and flattering him to “build attraction”, and if he still won’t commit, you’re supposed to play hard to get and withdraw sex and generally act as if time is short and you need real commitment before your peak fertility window of desirability closes.

I mean, whom are those “relationship artists” kidding? Even if you managed to eventually win such a man over, what kinds of precedents did you set? If anything, the man now knows that you like him for more than sex (horrors!), and that you’ll work hard to pin him down in a long-term relationship. He knows that you’re a completely normal woman who happily gives up self-righteous celibacy for the remote chance to get some love. As if a man’s love was the solution to anything (*snort*)! Instead of calling him out on his foot-dragging, you invite him to remain indecisive, and you even make excuses for his normal male behavior, all for love!!! This is nothing but absurd. Congratulations, you’ve turned yourself into what they call a “lovestruck girl.” Yes, this — “relationship game”, they call it — is the supposed alternative to mainstream dating advice. It’s laughable.

“Relationship management” and “beautification” are just more elaborate forms of penis worship and pedestalization. Women will never earn their self-respect until they are ready to “go their own way”.

Many thanks to Paul Elam for publishing this post at his blog A Voice For Women.





Comments


  1. I recommend comments-section. The author and especially his lackeys are as ludicrous as you’d expect.

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    • on November 8, 2013 at 1:48 pm ProudFeministGirl

      Awww 🙂 What a cute avatar, love it !

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    • i recommend yacv go to hell for that recommendation i took and now regret

      they must be extremely frustrated, they’ve been trying to make the point that seduction tactics are playing into the girls’ hands– what they never seem to pick up though is that when you do things correctly, it is less work to get women than to attempt it beta style, you get treated far better for far less effort, you set the bar low early so she doesn’t expect flowers every day, etc etc etc.

      i spent far more time pining and trying and basically begging for affection, and getting none, than i do now, where it overflows. i was pedestalizing women _before_ and that’s why i didn’t get laid.

      the other issue i have is why would he bother writing that horse manure? is it his goal to get guys not-laid? just seems unproductive and petty.

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      • How is getting guys laid productive? Is that the meaning in itself, like find meaning in money by itself? Seems these two “communities” value different things in the end.

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      • Do you realize that getting pussy is the foundation of just about everything? Hard wired bro. Unless you like fucking other men. Then I might understand your confusion.

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      • It’s the foundation of life, but without making children or strengthening civilization (children at the least), it is a meaningless exercise in depravity. I don’t really care myself if you super-alphas get all the 10s you want, that by itself helps only yourself (and only if you only care about sex-points), There are “foundations” higher than sex nowadays, like furthering science, philosophy, art, or athleticism.

        Of course sex made all this, but as an end in itself, is stupid. ‘Course I’m sure many here would just say I’m some sort of omega or whatever consoling myself, and I don’t really care. Do what you want and all that, but ask yourself at the end of your life is “I fucked alot of 10s” really what you want to be most proud of.

        And I only like women by the way (hard wired bro)

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      • Cellular reproduction is the basis of life, and everything. Or was it the Higg’s boson? Of course sex is hardwired and fundamental to humans, but so is cognition and consciousness. Since eating is required as well, should I maximize my ability to eat?

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      • Yes.

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      • The orgasm is the basis of life.

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      • As long as it isn’t carb laden, yes. Would make the world fitter and healthier and more attractive. Something the west desperately needs.

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      • Oh whatever Dat. Even pure red meat, I’m sure health defects could be found by eating only it. I think any person with common sense knows I’m not even really criticizing game, just that it isn’t an end in itself. If you think all you are is a fuck and eat machine, then that’s all you’ll ever be.

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    • Damn! The entire Jizzabel staff at a Silvio Berlusconi party with Chris Brown as the house band couldn’t generate more butthurt than that comments section.

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    • “Men’s” “Rights” “Activism” is a non-starter because:

      Men do not change the world through complaint, protest, and the attempt to persuade from a weak/minority position. Women wait for circumstances to change, indirectly petitioning (nagging) and passively “heightening awareness.” Men create their chance and shape the world as their prerogative, and deal with incidental consequences later.

      The very translation of politics into rights is part of the problem that has led to our advanced degeneracy. A right is an assertion against prevailing conditions, justified by an authority that transcends those conditions. It is an intangible thing made actual by sacrifice. Our subliterate political culture translates every individual preference into a “right,” even contradictory ones (the right against theft and the right to redistributed “entitlements”). MRA uses these degenerate terms in an attempt to arrest/roll back the degeneration. It can’t work.

      And activism is not activity. An “-ism” implies agitation, superfluous motion surrounding a concept rather than effective action born of a purpose. Barack Obama was a community “activist.” Did he build any communities, or did he just use the concept as the excuse for organizing and expending pointless energy in its name?

      Matt

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  2. This reminds one of the at times vicious infighting between granola lesbians and lipstick lesbians, and it’s tearing the manosphere apart!

    [CH: it’s fun to call out stupidity, wherever it’s found.]

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  3. Lindy West, is that you?

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  4. “What do those ridiculous dating coaches tell you, though? They talk about “contingency plans”. You’re supposed to keep sending her text messages to “build comfort”, and if she flakes on you, you’re supposed to act as if nothing happened or even pretend that you (!) missed the date, and tell her that you’re sorry and would like to meet up some other time.”

    I hadn’t heard that one, but I could have so much fun with it, I almost want to go find someone to flake on me.

    “sorry i missed drinks the other night, started early and woke up in jail. bring bail money”
    “sorry i missed dinner, the dog shit in the bed again. bring clean sheets”

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  5. Sex is a weapon…it’s like a drug. It gets him right into that grave that he just dug.

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  6. A lot of posters in the past have made it clear that for some reason women are able to group together and rally for something furthering their own interest, but yet in men, this is almost absent.

    [CH: there are two reasons for this. one, women are reproductively the more valuable sex. so there is a psychological tendency in both sexes to rally around women and support them. two, men on the whole are less tolerant of rank stupidity, and will call it out when they see it.]

    Even if you look at the manosphere it is true. One person will branch out from the “mainstream” manosphere and claim his blog is more enlightened, is more elevated, or more moral, or the more correct point of view. Of course this is pure BS, it is simply a rebranding of the manosphere with how THEY think the world should be.

    And it is also why an organization like a Voice for “Men” is destined to fail. You now get writers giving the same old reason that men who seek to bed many women are l000sers and “trying to be something they are not”. They seek to impute their views of the world, of morality, onto biomechanics. But Biomechanics don’t give a fuck.

    [game is also useful for creating and maintaining healthy, loving relationships. there are lots of posts in the CH archives that delve into this aspect of game. some “manosphere” types don’t like the idea of game because they are operating from false premises, and this pollutes their entire worldview. it would help them if they thought of game as applied charisma. chicks dig charismatic men.]

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    • You’re right. This is all very unfortunate and short-sighted. This fellow Jalon Cain (that ain’t white) doesn’t need to be mocked, he needs to be guided.

      In any enterprise there will be diverging purposes. Successful ones unify over what keeps divergent principles in common practical cause rather than nitpicking the small stuff.

      It would help if Cain took a different approach, but for whatever reason he chose to interpret game as tendentiously as the feminists do, rather than understanding it as the visceral first response to the same issues which animate him but from the trenches rather than from on high.

      Men can indeed work together under leadership that is stronger than any constituent part is individually, which does not exist in the “manosphere,” not yet, anyway. The idea that women unify more easily because of shared reproductive value is nonsense.

      PUAs and MRAs all demonstrate promising traits of leadership, which is why they attract these microfollowings online. But they all seem to be deficient in one of the more underappreciated qualities of the gig: humility.

      For my money, RooshV and Nick Krauser come closest, but it appears their foibles/lack of direct ambition/strategic befuddlement stymie them from seizing the swagger stick. I don’t know enough about Elam or Hembling or Cain to gauge their potential, although their womanly approach to politics appears to disqualify them from broader appeal. At any rate, their patrol & whine method keeps me from pursuing deeply what is already only a marginal curiosity.

      Matt

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    • Ther’s some powerful man controlled resources spent in furtherance of this “spontaneous” rebellion of wymin. Some/few have come to the bitter realization that they traded their womb for a fat free granola bar.

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  7. Damn, CH, you trolled your own blog. That’s cold. 🙂

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    • Only blog I enjoy in the Manosphere for this reason. It’s important to be right but it gets mad boring unless you either carry a bazooka or have a sense of humor.

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  8. on November 8, 2013 at 2:25 pm RappaccinisDaughter

    OK, so the source text…is this an example of “MGTOW”?

    And if so, am I to understand that one of their core beliefs is that PUAs pedestalize women? Or is it just this guy who thinks that?

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    • Elam’s kind of discordant. On one hand, he’s for leveling the playing field in a legal sense (ie, paternity testing, reforming divorce laws, etc), and those are things that need to happen. On the other, he has this attitude that masculinity is not what defines a man, and that men need not strive to cultivate their masculinity. Leads to a lot of weird screeds against the rest of the manosphere that don’t make much sense.

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      • I heart Paul Elam and A Voice For Men. They’re doing good things in important MRA categories like addressing biased family courts and false rape accusations and divorce rape and all that shit that should be important even to PUAs as they get older and start realistically thinking about settling down and raising a family etc. And I like that Paul is outspoken and doesn’t try to play nice, because playing nice doesn’t get attention.

        He also fully subscribes to the same notion I do, that we’ll never win over the MSM or feminists or Blue Pill’ers, they will always slander and fight us. But for every hit-piece they run on us, a few men reading or watching it resonate with what we’re saying and they take a rational logical look at the information for themselves and it hits home and we gain a few more men on our side. He was willing to let himself personally get raped on 20/20 just to gain some exposure and reach more men. I have to respect that.

        But when it comes to game/PUA, that crowd is exactly the same as the Jezebel crowd. They don’t understand game because their experience was skimming a copy of The Game and listening to other people talk about how evil it is, and they extrapolate everything from there the same way feminists label MRAs as fedora-wearing neckbeards who can’t get laid and want women to live in the kitchen and then extrapolate everything from there.

        But it doesn’t matter lol PUA has been shit on since we left the underground. It’s just one big shit-test. 🙂

        Friday night, hope y’all are planning to go out and make some cute chicks happy. Remember: in the winter the girls with boyfriends are at home curled up with their BFs sipping hot chocolate in front of a fire…the girls shivering thru the cold in miniskirts to get to the bar are dying to meet a cool social guy for the winter so they don’t have to keep freezing their tits off in bar lineups. You can rescue them from their frozen nightmare starting with saying “hi”. 😉

        [CH: true about the winter. my most productive time of year is when jack frost reigns.]

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      • Winter is like heaven, summer is like hell.

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      • I feel like I could take a woman straight out from under your arm with brute force. I’ve done this before to dudes like you. You are an incredible mouth piece with all the right words, but unlike women, that shit only takes you so far with men particularly those like me. You are transparent to me I see through you completely. These are rare men that balance active aggression with a healthy dose of intelligence.

        This guy is basically calling MRA up on the carpet, and then eve better actively dogging PUA. You are, by any objective measure, a PUA. If you say otherwise you are pathologically retarded. But you are in this guy’s court? Really?!

        So he pulls your fucking card, publically, and even in MSM (had it aired) but you respect him? I know your type buddy. “Peacemaker”. It is the same reason I can always touch your face in public if I want, and they usually will come home with me. Lots of your stuff is useful but this shit is weak and not a defenseable position by any means.

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      • 8====D ~~~
        an ejaculating penis is the only logical consequence after a three paragraph wank session

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      • Dafuq? I followed the ‘upstream line’ to RD’s comment. So neither her, nor CH, nor anyone here posted 3 paragraphs. The original link was FAR more than 3 paragraphs. What amazing ASCII dick w/ awesome range are you saying actually? You seem partially retarded to me at the moment, I don’t hold it against you at all it is basically most of America these days. ❤ ❤

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      • jay,

        You should try thinking about who benefits from two organized groups of men who agree on most things fighting each other over a wedge issue.

        The enemies of our enemy should be our allies.

        Clear your head.

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      • “I feel like I could take a woman straight out from under your arm with brute force.”

        I’m trying to decide whether to just respond with a “lol” or put in some time to actually break down why you wouldn’t be able to take my girls in-field, for people to learn from. For anyone who’s followed my AMOG writing, this is an example of what I mean when I say guys assume I’ll be easy to take girls from. This is exactly the kind of “I can take that little pussy’s girls with my macho manliness” guy that I run into in cowboy and biker bars where I clearly don’t belong and am clearly not the fighting type.

        You can absolutely take a girl from under my arm with brute force. I won’t even try to stop you. But she’ll end up back with me. 🙂

        “I’ve done this before to dudes like you.”

        No, you’ve done this before to dudes.

        “So he pulls your fucking card, publically, and even in MSM (had it aired) but you respect him?”

        You are insecure and looking at the small picture.

        Paul can say whatever he likes about PUAs. A 5yo probably has strong opinions on whether NASA’s next space shuttle should be piloted by a unicorn. It’s irrelevant, the 5yo doesn’t have enough knowledge of what she’s talking about for NASA scientists to care what she thinks or waste effort debating her.

        The activism he does with regards to men’s rights is solid. I can give props where it’s due.

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      • You are always AMOGging straw men/figures of your imagination. That’s why Jay calls out your boasts. More men should. And you should welcome this kind of real-time challenge because it makes you better.

        You are getting nowhere by flatly asserting I am A and Jay is B and that’s why “she’ll end up back with me.”

        Finally, NASA rocket scientist, your implication that all who differ from you are by definition “5 year-olds” who cannot understand your advanced concepts just beggars your already shaky credibility.

        Matt

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      • “And you should welcome this kind of real-time challenge because it makes you better.”

        Oh I DO welcome it. Do you know WHERE I welcome it? In the field. In real-time. By real-life people, for real-life rewards.

        Getting into an “if you said this I would say this” mental masturbation-fest online is silly. I know it would never convince the guy I’m writing to, the same way women think game won’t work on them because they’re special unique snowflakes. That’s why I say if I write it would be purely for other guys who deal with AMOGs to learn from.

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      • In the field. In real-time. By real-life people, for real-life rewards.

        Yes, you rely on this canard for the entirety of your credibility, but strangely cannot duplicate your magic for all of us to see. It’s like you want us to believe you can speak feminese fluently but are abjectly illiterate in the language when it comes to writing.

        You eschew physical contact (and in fact mock it), relying on simple speech to Demonstrate Your Dominance. And yet you cannot duplicate such a famous skill on a medium consisting solely of speech.

        This isn’t mid-1990s AOL chat where “nobody knows you’re a dog on the internet,” where only losers found simulated social succor. We all know the limitations of the medium without your repetitive citation of it in lieu of actual demonstration. We have since developed habits and customs around those limitations. We derive different advantages in this circumscribed dynamic. It is an inferior social space, but a virtual one nonetheless.

        You are emblematic of a PUA.com problem from the beginning. You write out fantasy scripts to teach others and (likely) exaggerate your field reports to make a point. But real AMOGging is reactive and unknowable, split second decisiveness with no “wit of the staircase” applicable. You cannot know how your opponent will react, or how his moves will throw you off kilter. In other words, you can’t write the foe’s dialogue for him, as you do with your straw-man interactions here (the latest being with Jay), even though it is a golden opportunity for you to pick your own timing, edit, reconsider, re-edit, and press send.

        Even with that delay you can’t put a critic in his place on this medium, à la CH. All of your conclusions are based on self-reported victories and selected failures, an over-reliance on the dichotomy between meat-space and cyberspace, and conveniently arranged so that we cannot make an independent judgment for ourselves. The most I’ve ever seen out of you is unreadable, eye-watering prolixity (in which the zinger is supposedly buried) and neener-neener “I’ll bet you have a little dick”-type assertion when someone challenges you on your smoke-blowing.

        Matt

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      • “But real AMOGging is reactive and unknowable, split second decisiveness with no “wit of the staircase” applicable. You cannot know how your opponent will react, or how his moves will throw you off kilter.”

        lol oh of COURSE not. Human beings are completely unpredictable. That’s why game doesn’t work, because feminists have told us that you can’t know how women will react because every woman is different and a unique special snowflake. You can’t break human behavior down into predictable patterns and responses to stimuli…I mean that’s why there’s no advertising industry, because people can’t be predicted. And forget about training in boxing or martial arts, you can’t predict how someone will react so you might as well not train. And driving, I mean, I just close my eyes when I drive cause who KNOWS what other people on the road will do when I turn on a signal light or my brake lights come on. You can’t know the unknowable!!!

        Anyone who considers online interactions the equivalent of real world interactions has spent too much time hitting on chicks on blogs lol

        But feel free to keep trying. I’ll be sure to read your scathing breakdowns of my psyche tomorrow, cause I have to go shower up for tonight soon. Tonight I’ll be heading to that “real world” place where I apply this stuff and will probably have to deal with an AMOG or two. 🙂

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      • on November 9, 2013 at 6:48 pm haunted trilobite

        That’s “l’esprit de l’escalier” to all you average neandarthals festering in the gutter

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      • look what i found awesome stuff. wow just wow.

        Motivated forgetting is a debated concept referring to a psychological defence mechanism in which people forget unwanted memories, either consciously or unconsciously.[1] There are times when memories are reminders of unpleasant experiences that make people angry, sad, anxious, ashamed or afraid. Motivated forgetting is a method in which people protect themselves by blocking the recall of these anxiety-arousing memories.[2] For example, if something reminds a person of an unpleasant event, his or her mind may steer towards unrelated topics. This could induce forgetting without being generated by an intention to forget, making it a motivated action. There are two main classes of motivated forgetting: repression is an unconscious act, while suppression a conscious form of excluding thoughts and memories from awareness.

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      • I never get where your at..Ya.. you write like you have achieved some success that matters..socially.. but then again you have a job..and have not achieved real success.. doing what you want when you want how you want .. you are tethered to somebody else’s income stream..

        2nd.. maybe defending being weak is a good strategy among women ..but it is clearly an easy to see self rationalization..extending your thoughts further.. oh he kidnapped my daughter ..no biggie I’ll have another..

        dont settle for a life without confrontation it is BS

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      • Jay in DC wrote:

        This guy is basically calling MRA up on the carpet, and then eve[n] better actively dogging PUA. … So he pulls your fucking card, publicly, and even in MSM (had it aired) but you respect him? I know your type buddy. “Peacemaker”.

        Cain should be corrected firmly and publicly, but with an eye toward conversion rather than destruction. “Peacemaker” indeed. We have real enemies, and that doesn’t include those who already agree with us 80%. The only litmus test is anti-feminism, which is a clear majority in this country, even in this day and age. Everybody who passes that simple test is clay we can work with.

        Elam and Cain have established their bona fides by speaking truth to harpy power, even if they’ve misinterpreted a couple details. Praising them is not a matter of sleeping with the enemy, and it’s definitely not the product of cowardice.

        Matt

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      • on November 9, 2013 at 6:45 pm Eliezer Ben-Yehuda

        I feel like anyone living in DC is at the wrong end of a very shitty stick.

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      • I am turned on by Asian chicks,but not sure why. Theyre really not very pretty,and good luck finding asweet azz on one!

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      • @YaReally, update, as you predicted my ex gf’s hamster exploded after 4 weeks of no contact apart from the “…”

        I got 4 texts starting with “What is …?” great validation
        Then: “You didn’t come to class” ironic since the week prior she blew off my entire event.
        Then: You chased me out of the elevator and then ran away”—projection: I walked off the elevator saw her turned around went back up, SHE came running up to look for me.

        2 phone messages with no voice mail,

        Then one final text: “you disappeared”.

        I didn’t reply to any of this.

        She had come out to our weekly party looking hot. I blanked her. It was my other ex gf’s birthday so we all acknowledged that. I know it drove new ex gf crazy.

        It’s clearly “trial texting” and smacks of entitlement and chick logic. No apologies.

        Very interesting to see how NEXTING works.

        Any thoughts on next moves?

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      • @YaReally I have a comment which I think has gotten lost somehow.

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      • Check down below!

        One thing I forgot to mention below: the “misinterpretation of events” she’s doing where she says you chased her into the elevator etc? Like where she’s rewriting history to make it sound like YOU were chasing HER and she’s the high-value one etc? Where you KNOW she’s full of shit and you’re DYING to text her and correct her with “no YOU chased ME that night”?

        That’s part of her Rolodex. 🙂 because any news is good news. Sub-consciously she KNOWS that kind of thing will make you instinctively want to respond to correct her on how things actually went down so that you don’t sound like a big vagina. And any reply, even one saying “lol I wasn’t chasing you”, is success for her.

        Devious, isn’t it? 🙂

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      • Right.

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    • Who let you out of the bedroom?!

      Put your schoolgirl outfit on and bend right back over that mattress, young lady!

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      • on November 12, 2013 at 7:13 am RappaccinisDaughter

        The pigtails were giving me a headache, and if I have to hear “Hit Me Baby One More Time” ONE MORE TIME, I’m just not going to be responsible for my actions.

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      • The pain is good for you. Keeps you in line. And you’re not responsible for your actions. I am..when I order you around.

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  9. i don’t read any other “manosphere” blogs. what am i missing here?

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  10. It seems to me that dudes who bash “PUAs” are the same type of people that bash late night infomercial weight loss devices when they don’t work. There is no magical formula for developing game, which they just don’t understand. Learning game is like taking a 24 hour sociology course that demands trial and error. There are just certain people that cannot be helped.

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  11. Huh? What the fuck he trying to say?

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  12. on November 8, 2013 at 2:47 pm long time fan

    Nice try reverting the sides but do you really think “she’s rude to you” equivalents to “he’s sexy and dangerous”? Just being rude doesn’t mean having options, it’s just that – bad manners.
    Anyway, he makes a number of good points. Being civil and polite is absolute requirement, game or not. I mean, I’ll happily bang a rude 9, but having a relationship with this bitch? I’ll need a more mature (yeah, that way mature) girl who knows how to behave herself. I think the Queen of England is polite to her servants even if they are miles lower than her. And you could see he isn’t saying the game doesn’t work. Well it does work but what does it do to you? Fake it until you make it is a nice goal, but most gamers just faking it without making.

    [CH: proof by assertion is no way to go through life son.]

    Exactly what he is saying: alpha outside, supplicating beta inside. Not being a man and standing up for yourself but jumping through girls’ hoops to get pussy. It’s about mentality. THAT is what he is criticizing.

    [his criticism is imbecilic. making oneself more attractive to women is hardly “jumping through her hoops”.]

    I can make a bit of examples. For instance, recent Tuthmosis post. He chat’s up a girl, she mentions her boyfriend, he instantly drops her. Why? Oh, she cut the possibility of romantic connection so he punished her. Yeah. That’s the same beta mentality. If you enjoy women attention so much why not chat with girl just because, for the fun of it? Because scarcity. He couldn’t continue chatting because it didn’t yield results.

    [if you think that game is the equivalent of putting pussy on a pedestal, then you have to concede that make-up, staying trim, and acting feminine is the equivalent of putting penis on a pedestal.]

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    • ya, losing weight must be all about ‘trying to make society like you better’ too. Learning a valuable skill must be the same. Hell, taking a diarrhea dump is just jumping through your colon’s hoops.

      But here’s the subtle point you’re missing: you do these things to give yourself permission to step into a role. When you learn game, you start to think of yourself as a guy who gets pussy. When you think of yourself as a guy who gets pussy, you act like a guy who gets pussy. Subsequently, you get pussy. Admitting that you want something and taking the most effective steps to get it isn’t jumping through hoops. Christ that’s a dumb way to think.

      [CH: well said. it’s like a successful business owner saying his effort to run a profitable company was unmanly because he jumped through the customers’ hoops, like that’s a bad thing. sometimes i wonder why i bother, but then i’m reminded that it’s impossible to overestimate the depths of self-deluding stupidity that spiteful loser toads are capable of plumbing.]

      Like


      • on November 8, 2013 at 3:21 pm long time fan (believe it folks!)

        Please. I’m not some hater. I know game works. But you know how it is? When my wife gets extra bitchy I think “shit, need to up my game”. Then I get the results, she becomes sweet again, all is fine. But why do I do it? Because I didn’t want to lose her, that’s why. Scarcity. Beta with game, no alpha. So I know what I’m talking about. I hate myself but I can’t make it, just faking it!

        [CH: if you want to troll, you’ll have to be more subtle than this. gotta up your game if you want to play with the big boys.]

        Like


      • Whenever my stomach makes me hungry I think ‘man I really need to get some food’ Then I get results, I become sated again, all is fine. but why do I do it? Because I don’t want to die, that’s why. Life scarcity. Beta with food game, no alpha with ascites non-reactivity to death game.


        lol tool.

        Like


      • on November 8, 2013 at 3:33 pm long time fan (i swear!)

        Belive it or not,

        [CH: i don’t]

        I read this blog through from first post to last and keep reading now. Your advice was really useful. Hell, I met my wife thanks to you.

        [is her name alex pareene?]

        But I use the game only as a tool. I don’t feel any change to my mind. I have to always be on my toes. Always concentrate and watch myself not to slip. To play the role. Or maybe I was an omega and elevated myself to beta. Anyway not a troll.

        [if you feel it’s too much for you to handle, you can always stop using game and revrt to your natural cheeto-stained carpal tunnel-afflicted omega state.]

        Like


  13. on November 8, 2013 at 2:47 pm Reservoir Tip

    Love the beard pet tweet, CH.

    Reminds me of something, actually. Went to the movies with one of my girls back home not long ago. I was enjoying the movie, but she was literally groping me trying to make out. She’d peck me on the cheek to get me to kiss her, so I’d turn and look at her, then just look right back at the movie.

    The look on her face was just great.

    “But a boy’s never turned down a kiss from me before!”

    Like


  14. The article at A Voice for Men is more or less right. Why would you even want a girl who flakes on you, for instance?

    [CH: maybe she’s got a righteous ass.]

    “Game” is good because it tunes men more into what women want on the whole and at least gets men thinking and observing reality.

    [the set-up…]

    That’s probably the extent of the goodness, though, because “game” is mostly for immature brats at bars, not quiet, gracious women with intelligence.

    […and the concern troll pay-off!]

    What’s with the passive-aggressive copycat-type article?

    [it’s called parody.]

    Isn’t CH more mature than that?

    [grown ups are boring.]

    Like


    • on November 8, 2013 at 3:05 pm Cigars, Whiskey and Shiney Shoes

      “What’s with the passive-aggressive copycat-type article?”

      The phrase ‘passive-aggressive’ has become overused by people who don’t graps its actual meaning. Hint: making fun of someone is not passive-aggressive.

      “Isn’t CH more mature than that?”

      BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

      Like


      • Seems like regular old “fuck your hat!” aggression to me. I don’t see how jacking someone’s style and phraseology to make an opposite point is passive in the least.

        Like


    • I like this CH guy.

      Like


    • That was, so funny. I wish I could learn how to do that.

      Like


    • on November 11, 2013 at 8:35 am The Burninator

      ” That’s probably the extent of the goodness, though, because “game” is mostly for immature brats at bars, not quiet, gracious women with intelligence.”

      Those mature professional women I see all the time who sneak to the biker bars I frequent don’t seem to share your fantasy, UUU. Church chicks seem to have no problem dropping the Virginal Mary veneer once the sermon is over either.

      I suspect we are working on different definitions of quiet, gracious women of intelligence here. Are you speaking about the ones in romantic fantasy literature perhaps? Or the far older, shriveled, dried up, square jawed post wall broads who predictably display disgust and disdain with women who can still attract men?

      Like


  15. Sooner or later the “game” guys are going to get tired of sticking their dick in crazy.

    [CH: false premise. sooner or later “game haters” are going to get tired of logical fallacies.]

    Like


  16. “some “manosphere” types don’t like the idea of game because they are operating from false premises, and this pollutes their entire worldview.”

    Changing your inner frame and mentality isn’t a false premise. If people think the “fake it till you make it” technique is all there is to it, they aren’t understanding ‘game’ properly. Game applies to all aspects of life, not just dating. The struggle for power exists everywhere.

    [CH: the false premise i was referring to was the belief that game only works on “skanks” and is only useful for short term sex romps.]

    Like


  17. Omega Team making excuses.

    Like


  18. “Women’s issue society”? Don’t you mean feminism? All the same thing to me with 1 message.

    Like


  19. Femarchy, not “Matriarchy”. Patriarchy implys FATHERhood, not mere male control (Andoarchy?), Matriarchy implies MOTHERhood, and the last thing most of thest bitches want is to have a baby and take care of it properly.

    Like


  20. I marvel that this was the guy that 20/20 picked for the “so called manosphere” hit piece. If he had any credibility it was just jettisoned to the surface while he himself sinks ballasted by misinformation, like fucking Red October into the murky black abyss of the Marianas Trench.

    This is why MSM sucks so hard. Because even when they think they have a story they are getting it from the wrong people about the wrong topics with the wrong information. It is good that thing never aired, I’d feel utter shame if this guy was somehow given a “Voice” for this man.

    And like moths to a flame, the never before seen usernames pop up here to say how he is correct in his assertions…

    Like


  21. The author is Jalon Cain, not Paul Elam himself.
    I don’t think they can out-victim status feminists who have Tribe connections, but it’ll be fun to watch. Side-note: Pre-emptively DARVO’d a co-worker half my age last week. Firm IOIs this week. Dark Triad FTW.

    Like


  22. If she’s unfriendly, you just move on, but if she’s rude to you, you can just tell her to go fuck herself. Amazingly, some women are so screwed up that they’ll get turned on by that and start chasing after you.

    cognitive dissonance ftw

    i, for one, welcome our new dark triad overlords

    Like


  23. AvfM and Elam is…..

    not the manosphere.

    Like


  24. The God-given role of men is to countermand the Feminine Imperative. Sexual success and personal integrity are aspects of this role, with many techiques available to help him improve his performance. Each man is free to choose his technique as he sees fit.

    Women Game men shamelessly, successfully and ruthlessly, so Game can be an effective countermeasure. For men who are troubled by the extraordinary sexual hypocrisy extant in a gynocracy, Game may also be the only way they can keep their heads above water.

    If attracting a woman sexually is the only way you believe you can perform your God-given role successfully and you can keep yourself and others safe while employing it, then learn and use Game. If personal integrity is more important to you, or if you don’t have the moral autonomy to use it wisely then avoid Game and learn other techniques.

    The decision rests with the man and his conscience, not the movement. That’s what it means to be a man.

    Might sayeth Hamlet:

    To be Game, or not to be Game, that is the question:
    Whether ’tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
    The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune,
    Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
    And by opposing end them: to die, to sleep
    No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
    The Heart-ache, and the thousand Natural shocks
    That Flesh is heir to? ‘Tis a consummation
    Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep,
    To sleep, perchance to Dream; Aye, there’s the rub,
    For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
    When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
    Must give us pause. There’s the respect
    That makes Calamity of so long life:
    For who would bear the Whips and Scorns of time,
    The Oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s Contumely,
    The pangs of despised Love, the Law’s delay,
    The insolence of Office, and the Spurns
    That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
    When he himself might his Quietus make
    With a bare Bodkin? Who would Fardels bear,
    To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
    But that the dread of something after death,
    The undiscovered Country, from whose bourn
    No Traveller returns, Puzzles the will,
    And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
    Than fly to others that we know not of.
    Thus Conscience does make Cowards of us all,
    And thus the Native hue of Resolution
    Is sicklied o’er, with the pale cast of Thought,
    And enterprises of great pitch and moment,
    With this regard their Currents turn awry,
    And lose the name of Action. Soft you now,
    The fair Ophelia? Nymph, in thy Orisons
    Be all my sins remembered.

    (apologies to the Bard)

    Like


  25. I have an instinctive understanding of what this guy is getting at. Upthread, where CH incredulously analogized his attitude to that of a business owner too proud to serve customers: this is exactly right. If being a player is enough at odds with your natural personality, it will seem as though going to all that trouble is too compromising of doing exactly as you please from moment to moment. Do I feel like going outside myself and my skillset to think of a bunch of clever things to say to a girl? No. Do I care to nag myself at all times that I should be sitting in a fucking chair like Steve McQueen? No. I don’t want to and nobody can make me. Not the gameosphere, with your laughable attempts to shame me. Not some woman, by implicitly offering me sex in exchange for completing this exhausting obstacle course. Like our business owner, I’m too proud, and if I go out of business, so be it. I’ll starve like a man.

    Like


    • I kind of agree with E, here. There are things I just don’t like doing — hanging out in clubs is one of them. Much of the Game advice is wasted because it applies to things I simply don’t enjoy, and I’ll be damned if I spend my time doing something I dislike in order to meet girls — and they’ll be girls who like doing things I dislike! Screw that.

      Like


      • Stand ur ground, keep ur frame, don’t be a pussy when confronted. How is that improper in any situation in any circumstance?

        Like


      • I know how you feel. We should all leave our comfort zones on a regular basis to meet women, but that doesn’t mean becoming comfortable with things we genuinely dislike.

        But, whether our dislike of something is genuine or based on fear, we must find out through experience.

        Like


    • I agree with you in spirit, but what’s wrong with trying to sit like Steve McQueen?

      Is it uncomfortable? Is it uncomfortable because you are unused to it? Or are you familiar with the discomfort of sitting like Steve McQueen?

      Is it outside yourself, or is it beneath yourself, or is it above yourself?

      Like


  26. on November 8, 2013 at 5:29 pm EnterNameHere

    E Delta: I understand that, but you get older and you aren’t as drive to get sex at any cost.

    You’ve got to realize: Then rude women just appear to be … rude women. No desire to fuck them. Bar skanks just appear to be … bar skanks. No desire to fuck them.

    Let the younger game guys eat them up. Go get ’em, boys. I am more interested in building my career than spending hours in a bar with immature brats.

    Like


    • What if it’s actually possible for a person to change his life and improve his career, finances, status, and number of quality pussy.
      If a man believes in himself he can get whatever he wants. Long term relationships, short term relationships, one night stands, wives, mistresses, babies…
      Does this scare you?
      Do you feel like you’ve missed out on life?
      It’s never too late…

      Like


    • E Delta: I understand that, but you get older and you aren’t as drive to get sex at any cost
      ———————————————————————————————-

      That may be true, but also, the longer you stay in the game, the more “wreckage” of the burned out hulks of other men you pass on the side of the road. You think it doesn’t affect you but its there in the back of your mind.

      Over time it adds up and you learn to not be so wreckless with your dick; or you end up in court, prison or the cemetery…

      Most of the guys on this site have stories about bullets they dodged.

      Life is hard; its even harder if you’re stupid.

      Like


  27. I just about shat myself laughing. Parody is good for you.

    Aaaahhhh to have a Pythonesque sense of humour.

    Like


  28. Nice try, CH. I did the same thing with a SPLC post. Mine was better.

    Still, this makes me wonder: is it possible to score Elam’s woman just to prove a point? She’s gotta be thinking its time to find a man again, after watching Elam lick his crotch for so long.

    Like


  29. That AVfM piece is built from strawmen big enough to make Edward Woodward shit his pants.

    Like


  30. […] One of the biggest problems of our phallocentric culture is the constant pampering to the superficial behavior of men. The dating arena is a prime example of this. I won’t ridicule mainstream dating advice.  […]

    Like


  31. Didn’t understand a word of that.

    Like


  32. I don’t get it

    Like


  33. Women certainly have the upper hand, and I think strategies to reduce that are absolutely right for men.

    You get older, though, and rude bitches and bar skanks just aren’t what they used to be. I got laid plenty 30 years ago in college, just by being big and drunk.

    The joke is that today I wouldn’t want to go near a woman who is easy prey for “game”, and I frankly want to make more money. The problem with the alpha male thing is that humans have a frontal lobe. Bar skanks likely don’t, and they are too easy. Go get ’em.

    Like


  34. tteclod sez: “Still, this makes me wonder: is it possible to score Elam’s woman just to prove a point?”

    ———

    I’m just guessing, based on your posts here, that it would be a lot easier to score your woman – just give her $50.

    Like


  35. What is this thread about?

    That men are divided?

    I say yeah for us. Im glad we are fractured and split into different factions. The sooner we become a union the sooner we get sold out/stabbed in the back…

    Besides, do you really think you smarter than the Creator?

    Look around?

    Look at all the different plants and animals? Look at all the different people?
    That n166a is hedged up deep cause he know once erybody get on one side of the boat, that shit bout to tip over.

    Matter of fact, the “freak” is God’s insurance policy against monoculture burnout syndrome. When the last white man dies off, all that will be left is duck billed platypus, coelacanths and n166ers who read books.

    The world is in mint condition; meant to be that way. Leave it a,one.

    (and don’t touch my dog)

    Like


  36. Post for YaReally. And further validation of the “…” elipses game. Verdict: Hamster of ex gf in over-drive—10 days after receiving it.

    Update for you and yes, you were correct.

    The now ex gf came out to our weekly latin party.

    it’s been 4 weeks since the “Bye” drama and the complete avoidance of my huge event.

    So she’s desperately trying to make eye contact, she’s wearing rare pair of shoes I brought back for her (she paid) from a trip and looking smoking.

    I…completely blank her. It also happens to be my other ex gf’s birthday, so we’re hanging out, laughing.

    After the party: I get a series of texts:

    “What does … mean?”

    “You didn’t come to class” —a reference to me blanking the class we signed up for after she blew off mine a week earlier.

    “You chased me down the stairs but then ran away”— this is a complete fallacy, that time I was going out for drinks and happened to see her at the bottom of the elevator, so I turned around and went back up. I didn’t follow or chase.

    No mention of breaking up 2 days before my event.

    No mention of deleting my off FB….Just positioning this as her frame and putting me in “responder” mode.

    I did not reply. A few observations relevant to this blog.

    But it’s interesting how she positions it as me blowing off class, not her apologizing for blowing off my event…Chick logic. You also predicted this rationalization.

    You also predicted hamster would be in over-drive…

    This “no contact” thing, you laid it all out there. Now it’s the engagement.

    But also a great follow up to the “…” text I posted. She’s now asking me what it means.

    So…what do I do with these 3 texts? Do I not reply? Do I reply?

    Bear in mind, she has now completely forgotten all the shit things that happened and now seems to be in the beginnings of chase mode.

    The fact it was my other ex gf’s bday must have triggered this off.

    Curious to hear input.

    Like


  37. @YaReally…further validation of ellipsis game and update.

    Went to weekly latin party event. Ex gf was there, wearing shoes I brought back for her months ago looking smoking. I ignored. It was my other ex gf’s birthday and we are on great terms so we went to dinner and came. It was her birthday so everyone made a thing of it…that must have triggered off the response I’m going to describe which you predicted.

    So I blanked her all night despite various attempts to get my attention.

    I get this text:

    “What does … mean?” validation of elipses game

    “You didn’t come to class” trying to engage me on why I blew off a class. Ironic because the week prior she completely blew off all the things she had promised to do for my big event.

    “You chased me down the stairs but then ran away”—provocative but nonsense. It was a complete coincidence. I happened to be going out to get some drinks from the shop and unknown to me she had left and just happened to be at the top of the escalator when I got off the elevator. We saw each other and I turned around and went back up. She came in after more and I was hanging out with another girl.

    So…now she’s in chase mode. Chick logic has taken over, rather than apologizing (WHAT?? WHAT??) she’s now highlighting that I blew her off…

    This is exactly the kind of drama she pulls all the time. I get defensive, she blows up, I blow up , we bang, back to normal. 2 months pass and it goes.

    So she broke up a month ago just before my big event. It was disrespectful. But I never said a word to her, not a word.

    So…what do I say? Do I reply?

    Elipsis game works.

    Chick logic downplays everything bad they did and plays up everything bad they think we did.

    I think the pre-game me would have immediately replied.

    But I can’t think of anything to say…No apology here. No offer of anything. It’s a kind of “trial text” to get me to give her the attention I withdrew.

    She’s hurting and thinking about me. But10 days to reply to “…” you’re right, she was expecting more.

    Like


  38. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2495932/Texan-wins-election-misleading-voters-believing-black-using-flyers-showing-African-Americans-supporting-neighbor-Dave-Wilson.html

    ‘As a conservative white Republican running in a district whose voters are overwhelmingly black Democrats, the odds seemed overwhelmingly against him. Then he came up with an idea, an advertising strategy that his opponent found “disgusting.” If a white guy didn’t have a chance in a mostly African-American district, Wilson would lead voters to think he’s black.

    And it apparently worked. In one of the biggest political upsets in Houston politics this election season, Wilson — an anti-gay activist and former fringe candidate for mayor — emerged as the surprise winner over 24-year incumbent Bruce Austin. His razor thin margin of victory, only 26 votes, was almost certainly influenced by his racially tinged campaign.

    Wilson printed direct mail pieces strongly implying that he’s black. His fliers were decorated with photographs of smiling African-American faces — which he readily admits he just lifted off websites — and captioned with the words “Please vote for our friend and neighbor Dave Wilson.”

    One of his mailers said he was “Endorsed by Ron Wilson,” which longtime Houston voters might easily interpret as a statement of support from a former state representative of the same name who’s also African-American. Fine print beneath the headline says “Ron Wilson and Dave Wilson are cousins,” a reference to one of Wilson’s relatives living in Iowa.’

    Like


  39. on November 10, 2013 at 1:10 am Eliezer Ben-Yehuda

    Cathedral (“Doctors Without Borders”) colonialists cut and run in the face of resistance from indigenous-peoples. The faggot imperialists know that the indigenii are willing to cut a Euro’s dick off and shove it down his throat.

    http://www.voanews.com/content/burma-protesters-force-ngos-to-leave-town/1786199.html

    Immediate & violent response is also the correct method of dealing with lesbian feminists.

    Like


  40. on November 10, 2013 at 1:53 am Eliezer Ben-Yehuda

    Apprentice cat lady gets a message from the cats about her Market Value…..

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/11/10/worker-killed-by-wildcat-at-oregon-sanctuary/

    Like


  41. The only point I can agree with with the male movement is that sometimes the game community claims sex as the most important part of life.Once in a while CH will write something along the lines of sex with beautiful women being the only thing that makes life worth living. Feelings of despair over the ugliness of the modern world can sometimes lead us to making such statements, but I don’t believe that CH actually believes this. If he does, he might find himself coming back as a eunuch (like lord Varys) in his next life.

    Game is best understood as a technique for sleeping with higher quality women. Game does not advocate putting pussy on a pedestal, in fact, if anything, game preaches the exact opposite.

    Bottom-line: If you can use game techniques to improve the quality of your women, then use them. It’s very simple.

    Like


    • Another way of looking at it though is that a certain level of social and sexual competence are necessities just like food, sleep, and shelter. Having those things frees you to accomplish whatever it is you wish to do with your life.

      Like


      • Yes, good point. A healthy sex life with young hot women makes you better at accomplishing your mission in life but should not be mistaken for your mission in life.

        Like


  42. Ah, a lamPOONing of a voice for manginas was destined to happen. Bunch of bitter old cat people over there. Of course, a mangy would assert that I’m just using shaming language, which is about as useful as telling someone punching you in the face that they are just using “physical language.”

    Sure, some of the policies these people champion are just and sensible, but I’m not going to refrain from noting and stating what socially inept dorks they are, just because we agree on fringe policy that has no chance of passing any time soon.

    Like


  43. Update: @YaReally and anyone interested in Elipses game….( not sure if these posts are actually getting lost)

    My ex gf who I’ve been in No Contact with apart from Elipses game 10 days ago came out to our weekly event. I blanked her.

    Then around 2am I get 3 texts: “What is …?”
    “You disappeared from class” reference to blowing off a class we had signed up for
    “You chased me out elevator, then disappeared” -Not true, more like I ran into her and then went back up. She came running back up only to see me chatting up with another girl.

    Then, at 4am 2 calls 2 hours later–no message. And a final text: “you disappeared”.

    I didn’t reply. Should I?

    Is this just the hamster spinning out of control fueled by competitive anxiety and no contact? On that night it was my other ex gf’s birthday so we had a little ceremony for her.

    So I followed your advice and just kept silent without taking any of this bait.

    It just looks like an attempt to provoke a girl’s insatiable appetite for drama and conflict which put the guy in a position of losing hand and being in her frame.

    Like


    • “I didn’t reply. Should I?”

      Nope.

      “Is this just the hamster spinning out of control fueled by competitive anxiety and no contact?”

      Yep. She’s just going thru the Rolodex.

      Because you slipped up and txted a “…”, she’s going to go thru the whole Rolodex all over again multiple times trying to figure out what combination of things caused the “…” response. Like I say, that “…” extended the Soft Next. If you hadn’t txted a “…” she might have given up by now. This is why No Contact means NO Contact lol

      To put it in perspective, imagine you’re trying to find a cure for cancer. You’ve tried almost everything you can think of with zero progress or success at all…then right as you’re about to throw your hands in the air and give up and admit defeat and failure, you mash your hands on the keyboard in frustration and go have a drink. When you come back, you notice the inkling of a successful result on your computer screen and you realized some combination of keys you mashed got the teeny tiniest bit of success finally.

      You would spend a MONTH trying every key on that keyboard in every combination possible trying to duplicate that bit of success so you could work out a cure from there…whereas if you hadn’t had any success at all, you would have given up that very night. That’s what your “…” did to her.

      Expect this to take a few months, unfortunately.

      Like


      • @YaReally What’s the end game? Seems that from a psychological perspective, two things are going on:

        1) She’s not used to being “Dumped” in the sense that she said “bye” and I left and “disappeared”. That doesnt’ fit with her sense of entitlement. I think she would like an “orbiter”.

        2) She’s got mixed feelings and any slip-up on my part would help to rationalize the decision to leave: either “angry” guy or “Beta” guy: ie lash back=angry, whew good think I dumped him or “pleading” =beta, wow he’s weaker than I thought good thing I dumped him.

        Silence only confirms that I was the alpha who she let get away?

        This is my first post-game break-up so I’m curious to understand how I handled it and how I could have improved.

        Like


      • “Silence only confirms that I was the alpha who she let get away?”

        Basically. Remember the opposite of Love isn’t Hate, it’s Indifference.

        By going silent you remove her existence which means she has no effect on you good or bad, which is worse than having a bad effect on you. Like you might have a shitty dad who disciplines you and doesn’t let you have any fun and you might hate him…but an orphan will probably still be jealous of you cause at least you HAVE a dad, he has no one who cares about him and that can feel worse.

        Again you can take her back at any time. She will want you FOREVER after all of this. She would gladly come running back right now off one txt and make you dinner and bang your brains out and promise you the world.

        …but you’d be teaching the pitbull that when it bites it gets rewarded, as long as it bites hard and long enough. And you’d be taking your chances with the results of that, possibly with kids and a divorce on the line.

        This whole thing is just waiting for her to give up and accept that you can erase her from your reality if she misbehaves. Once she learns and truly accepts that, you can take her back and she will be afraid to give you that kind of drama again because she knows how losing you feels.

        That’s why the “…” sabotaged it…you’re basically starting over. She might have given up and you could have been back with her by now, but that “…” was petting the bulldog so now she’s not only trying the Rolodex again but trying it with “I KNOW I’m getting thru to him!!! He txted me that one time” in the back of her mind.

        That’s why I say this could be months. It could take 6 months before her hamster gives up now and you can finally get back together.

        Ordinarily you could Soft Next for a shorter period of time. It’s basically proportional to what type of girl she is, how serious you guys were, how big her Rolodex is, and how much drama she brought to the table and how many of your lines she crossed.

        So a random girl flaking on me might get a week of radio silence, no biggie. A fuckbuddy flaking on me a few times gets a few months of radio silence. A serious girl you could see a future with who did what she did to you with your celebration event and everything? That’s not a week-long Soft Next lol so like I say, mentally prepare for the long haul.

        It’s gonna suck going thru Xmas etc without her but ultimately it’s for your guys’ own good. Again you MIGHT lose her, it’s theoretically possible so I can’t guarantee shit…but it’s unlikely, because even if she started another relationship you are her “alpha widow” and you could get her back pretty easily.

        Like


      • Thanks, very insightful.

        Like


      • I go back and forth on this. But she did pull the “Bye” thing 2 days before my big event, then waffled to try to make it like no big deal.

        Then didn’t come to anything and posted photos of her having dinner with friends on one of the days she’s signed up for an event.

        Then she showed up for our weekly thing like nothing happened.

        Then defriended me.

        So….yah, this is a sackable offense.

        Going back too soon or without a proper mea culpa on her part would be super-beta.

        I like how I handled this overall.

        Old me would have caved, would have tried to reason or lecture. I did that—didn’t work. I can see where I could have done better and how taking her back in the past only lead to more of what you say: pit bull eating baby stuff.

        On the upside, I have other chicks i’m gaming and pipelining.

        Like


  44. I read the OP which led to a discussion of PUA’s being fake which led to a series of diatribes against David DeAngelo. RJ despises him.Others say his methods are crap,he is marketing guru who isnt even any good with the 2nd sex. His choice of a wife,some bizarre trannie(!) seems to support that notion. Apparently the PUA world is a bit like the gay world,(except the PUA’s like pussy,not getting a fist rammed up your anus, heh heh heh) in that there are no secrets.Dave(Eben Pagan) is regarded as a pussy who isnt good with chicks. The best stuff seems to be RSD,Mystery PU 101 and Love Systems,all descended from Mystery. I was thinking of .ahem,acquiring his Man Transformation, and working on all around inner game and getting ahandle on life its own self. Is his stuff any good,is basically what I am asking…

    Like


  45. [i]if you feel it’s too much for you to handle, you can always stop using game and revrt to your natural cheeto-stained carpal tunnel-afflicted omega state.[/i]

    fckin’ grease pole. fckin’fck (with no real fckin’) fckin’fck.

    Like


  46. Some of us are simply wired differently.
    Last night I banged some girl, pretty hot. Today I feel nasty.
    Its simply not enjoyable for me to bang a girl that I know I have no future with
    I wasn’t like this at 20 years old but now in my 30s it just doesn’t do it for me anymore

    Like


    • on November 11, 2013 at 8:48 am The Burninator

      You’re well on the path to Oneitis. You’re already looking for “something deeper”, your post aches with that theme.

      Women will not provide that for you I’m afraid. The good, decent American woman is nearly a thing of myth these days. No matter what they wear or how they present themselves these days, they’re all the same feminist ruined puddle of crazy underneath.

      There may be exceptions, but we’re at the point where they’re rare enough to not disprove the rule.

      Enjoy what you have, move to another more traditional country or get out of the game is the only advice I can give.

      Like


      • There’s always the monastic path – not a bad one to take if you have the ballz.

        Hypergamy, as biological fact, is the same for all. ‘Merkin grrlz just flaunt it more.

        Like


      • There are plenty of good women, especially first generation or foreigners. I’ve never dated a full American women. All have been first generation or immigrants.

        Like


      • There are plenty of good women, especially first generation or foreigners. I’ve never dated a full American women. All have been first generation or immigrants.

        ‘Hi, my name is Jay, and I’m a Xeno-philic’. HI JAY! I’ve been Westerner Free for 5 years. *thunderous applause*

        At first, I just wanted to experiment a little. The same old careerism and materialism droning was just no doing it for me. I wanted to see what it was like and you know, what they say is true. It is the first hit that gets you hooked. On a first date with a pretty hot girl, I immediately felt the sensation. No shit test about career. No snark and sarcasm. Smiles. Genuine nature. Flirtation.

        I left the date, and knew this was the beginning of addiction. I tried to stay clean and knew the path I was headed down. I went out with a lawyer, and a senior marketing executive. Just to you know… ‘prove’ I was still normal. But it just wasn’t the same.

        Soon, I found I was obsessing. And after some more dates and bangs, I was hopelessly addicted. I spent my entire day thinking about how I was going to score more Eastern Euro and South American tail. I was even going out during weekdays with demure feminine intelligent East Asians. My friends, all of whom we’re normal started to see I had a serious problem. They told me how care free and unstressed I was looking. They counseled me about getting a fucking shrike wall hitter soon before I got too old. Behind my back, they bad mouthed me for my ridiculous and abnormal lifestyle. I actually had money to spend, great sex, intelligent conversation, and fun most of my days. I was really hitting rock bottom.

        I’m not sure how much longer I can go on like this. Most of my ‘friends’ have pretty much lost contact with me because of my aberrant lifestyle. They haven’t invited me to any soccer games, or Dancing with the Stars Home Trivia nights. And it fucking hurts. Bad. Thanks for letting me share!

        Like


      • on November 11, 2013 at 10:26 am ProudFeministGirl

        United States is the King of the world; Japan or European countries or the BRICs,etc there is no real rival for United States ,not in this era.

        Like


  47. Anyone here that can help out a newbie?

    So I hung out with a girl (she has a boyfriend). The next day she texts me telling me that she had a dream that she was a lesbian. I text back just saying that’s hot. She later replied, but ignored my comment and instead mentioned something else.

    I’m just wondering if there’s any potential in this one, because I figured if she was receptive, she would’ve flirted back or something.

    Like


    • I’m newish too, but I’m fairly sure they call that beta bait, the way you responded. Something more like, “you should really save that for your shrink” or “…” might have been better.

      Like


    • The number one rule of text game is we are always pushing for the meetup.
      “ur hot” lame
      “ur hot, let’s have lunch weds” lame but way better

      “ha you gotta tell me more about that at lunch weds or something” good

      If you aren’t affirmatively pushing for meetups and insteadare just ‘chatting,’ you’re cutting your dick off in her eyes (if you had one to begin with) smiley-face by smiley-face.

      Like


      • I agree to a point. I’ve found lately that when just pushing for a meetup without text chatting it can chase away the bird.
        Her text was bait with a bow on it and he chomped down hard.
        A better response for him would have been: funny I was just picturing you making out with a chick
        Or
        I knew you were naughty now come get in my bed

        Like


      • Understood. But here’s where I was coming from:

        I’ll have no trouble getting this girl out. Since we just hung out the night before, I wasn’t aiming to push for another meet right away. She sent me a long-ass text about this lesbian thing, and all I responded with was “that’s hot”. The aim of this was to try to work on text game (be more economical, feign coolness and disinterest with a shrug). I would have thought that a more beta thing to do was to discuss her “lesbian” feelings. Instead I just remarked how it was hot and that’s it.

        Like


      • lol why not? Did you fuck her the night before? Your work is unfinished if the answer is no.

        And you’re not conveying disinterest by saying ‘that’s hot.’ It’s economical — which is good — but you’re still essentially saying it’s hot. Now, if you meant it to come off as real blase….indicate that. HERE is a good use of the ellipsis for the DQ

        “that’s hot…”

        Better

        “uh….that’s hot?”

        Idk, don’t even text chat if you’re not going to after AT MOST two or three txts, push for a meetup.

        Like


      • To me those both are still chomping down on it: she flaunts her sexuality and you respond with eagerness.

        “ya you could pull off the whole flannel shirt look, for sure.” DQ is always the way to go when faced with the bait.

        Like


      • I think you’re right. I like that flannel line.

        Like


      • reading your stuff leads me to believe that you are waaayyy better in person.

        Like


    • If you’re really a newbie quit it with the chicks with boyfriends. You’re chasing your tail, becoming an orbiter, and risking a beat down. There’s tons of available girls go find em.

      Like


      • One interesting problem that I’ve noticed is that when you’re a newbie, the girls with boyfriends (that they’re happy with) are more open and friendly but the single girls stay away from you. But when you have alpha cred, the complete reverse happens.

        He needs to work on turning into an alpha more than looking for girls at this point.

        Like


      • To start with, he should stop drinking anything with corn syrup in it.

        Like


      • I knew HFCS makes people fat, but I was unaware that it drains men’s T like soy does.

        Like


      • on November 11, 2013 at 7:46 pm PimpinBlueStar aka preenis

        yeppers. when you’re a threat, people respect you in that way. the real deal gets treated like one. the harmless little puppy just gets petted.

        corn syrup ultimately takes the fight out of a man. instead of calling out society’s bullshit, thinking clearly for yourself and taking action on what you know to be right, you say “ehh fuck it” sit back and let fox/cnn and ads to teach you how to think. sadly most men i know are bitter, angry and they tuck in their faggot little shirt into their khakis and talk shit who aren’t on the fast track working for someone else to move up and make that extra 3% per year.

        yea…sounds fun to me too.

        Like


      • Corv is spot-on. Taken girls will start shying away from you the longer you do this, because you’re becoming a threat. But it’s actually cool to see that because despite all this talk about ‘women can’t control themselves, women are sluts, women blah blah blah…’ a lot of women seem to be able to avoid trouble. They can realize when they’re in a situ that will cause them heartache, despite whatever in-the-moment tingles they’re having, and they can remove themselves from it.


        That said, if you’re a newbie I’d say do your thing. Taken girls are a good set to practice your ‘be an alpha orbiter’ rather than ‘beta orbiter.’ A beta orbiter’s mindset?

        “Hey maybe if she sees how emotionally available and open I am, she’ll see what a great guy I am and maybe, just maybe, she’ll be with me and we can hold hands and walk off into the sunset together!”

        An alpha orbiter?

        “Just keep showing up, dropping in for a quick flirt, and trying to extract. She can’t make good decisions all the time.”

        The only difference is in how much you invest.

        Like


      • True that. Everyone has a tipping point.

        The question, as always, is why. Especially since we live in a slut factory, why would someone want to put in all that effort? For a beginner, that could be demotivational. Small and quick successes are the key to building confidence.

        Like


      • That said, if you’re a newbie I’d say do your thing. Taken girls are a good set to practice your ‘be an alpha orbiter’ rather than ‘beta orbiter.’

        I disagree. Even if he’s just starting out, he should still concentrate on single girls. At first, he’ll only get the left end of the bell curve, but as he improves, the distribution will shift to the right.

        Like


  48. Weekend FR:

    We and my wing head out to a club I hadn’t been to in months. Lots of kino and dancing, nothing remarkable. I talk to this chick for a while, her bf shows up and she apologizes. Her bf gets mad at her for flirting with me. I lol.

    And then I head to another bar area and I proceed to fuckup two pretty much guaranteed ONS’s. These happened basically near last call.

    Me: (to Mexican HB7 coming out of bar): YOU. Who are you?
    HB7Mex: Hi… (eyes get huge).
    Me: What are you doing here?
    HB7Mex: Hanging out with my friend.
    (Friend giggles, my wing comes in)
    Me: You’re a nurse, aren’t you?
    HB7Mex: I’m… actually a pediatrician.
    Me: See? I can tell. It was destiny. You’re my girlfriend now.
    (Do some kino, blah blah blah)
    Me: … So what do you do for fun?
    HB7Mex: I dance.
    Me: Like this? (rubbing my ass on her)
    HB7Mex: Uhhhh… no, I do this Mexican style of dance (yup, we were already in comfort. And I cluelessly ignored that fact).
    (Wing jumps in)
    Wing: I’m cold, why don’t you hug me? (Hugs my target… yeah…)
    HB7Mex: Uhhh, maybe you should hug my friend. This is my boyfriend (looks at me)
    Me: … (lol yup, I’m retarded…)
    Wing: (some words I forget)
    HB7.5Mex: Alright we’re gonna go. Bye guys.

    And if it wasn’t bad enough…

    Cute girl (HB7.5) I meet outside a bar. (Honestly, I’m not sure how to rate these girls. I would definitely bang them and show them off to friends, but they’re definitely not models… and they could look MORE attractive… so I dunno, I think there’s a CH post in here with ratings and numbers, I’ll try to dig it up. I recall Scray breaking it down.
    EDIT: Sample rating scale: http://puahate.com/showthread.php?t=17604)
    Me: Hey, what’re you up to?
    HB7.5: I’m like, hanging outside. My friends are inside 🙂
    Me: Yo, do you smoke (weed)?
    HB7.5: TOTALLY. My house is like 10 mins away.
    Me: We should totally smoke sometime.

    Intros to friends, we exchange numbers. I leave.
    Sent a weird text the next morning, she doesn’t respond.

    Saturday night proves to be quite a hilarious (and annoyingly expensive) adventure. After watching this video:

    Pretty much got the idea (why can’t I just have fun?) and from that the night was set. Opened a few sets at a bar (why aren’t you dancing? etc.) things went okay. Went upstairs to the dancefloor, started dancing with all the girls. Did kino and I run into an HB8 (later found out that she was a stripper) and yeah… things got crazy lol

    Made friends with two fatties pretending to be in love with them, told them to come on the dancefloor. Dance/chat with a few other girls (everybody’s watching me, seriously lol) rub my ass on every chick. I’m with two wings and they’re kinda stifled (one’s a bit drunk). I dance on stripper, asks her how good she is at dancing. She just dances… she was fucking hot lol. Decent face, tiny waist, nice tits and ass… dolled up, high heels… sorry I’m mentally masturbating over this, but it gets better.

    SO at one point she starts circling me, never giving me eye contact, but still in my general area. Then I’m like, eh this is boring and she comes closer to me but I reject her for the two fatties who make their way on the dancefloor I befriended earlier. So she’s like “Wtf?” and I’m like lol I don’t care hahaha

    Danced with the fatties, and she moves to talk to some other dude (I swear everyone in the bar/dancefloor was a chode). I pretend to not see her and I’m just enjoying myself. She brings the loser dude onto the dancefloor and I’m like “wow this is my competition? HA” and I just dance with some other girls. Talked to an older married chick, turns me down, but says I’m cute. I’m just spouting lines to random girls, and she’s literally going up to different dudes and like, trying to get with them or something, I dunno… I later find out she is drunk (ish?). Anyway, this is early in the night, I think (like 12) and whatever, she passes me again, the fatties are pissed cuz they can see I’m a player (lol). I grab StripperHB8, put her hands around my neck, grab her waist, and I try to makeout. She turns her cheek to me. I do this several times and she won’t let me kiss her (apparently this is a thing with strippers, according to one of my wings). After dancing a bit:

    HB8: I’m gonna go outside and smoke.
    Me: Okay, I’ll be here (wait, what?)… I mean, I’ll join you.
    HB8: Let’s go.

    We go downstairs and outside:

    Me: Look, you’re hot, I get that, but what else can you do? Like you’re a human (?).
    HB8: I am a human. I’m a cheerleader. (drunk lol)
    Me: Oh great, you’re a ditsy cheerleader.
    HB8: I’m not ditzy!

    Creep from inside the club apparently followed us cuz he’s outside again. Instantly HB8 turns to him and has her back to me. Im like lol… I honestly forgot what I said here, but somehow she responds:

    HB8: Kim Kardasian? Kim Kardashian’s fat. I’m skinny. I have abs.
    Me: (grabbing her flat stomach) POOCHY, POOCHY, POOCHY LOL
    HB8: I am 110 lbs!
    Me: Oh really? (I carry her in my arms, she grabs onto me) Oh.. hmm… pretty light. God you’re so cute.
    HB8: I only like Kanye.
    Me: I AM fucking Kanye!
    HB8: … I have a boyfriend. He’s rich. He buys me things.
    Me: … Uhhhh, I don’t wanna be your boyfriend, I like having fun. You can keep him. I wish I was you I want presents too.
    (This is all while the creep is just standing there with us outside lol wtf)
    She talks to creep about her bf. I get bored and go back inside. Then I think wtf, I can just take her off of him. Stood there for 5 mins thinking about whether that would look needy… then I think, fuck it, why not.

    I go back outside, they’re like huddled in front of another bar, not far from where we were standing. I grab her hand, she sees me, takes my hand and we head back inside.

    I say she should drink water, and she’s like NOOOO, I want Patron!. So she asks for two shots:

    Lady Bartender: That’ll be 18 dollars.
    Me: …
    HB8: …
    Me: Well?
    HB8: He’s got it.
    Me: Uggh… fine. (I figure why not, why stall the pickup and act retarded over a shot? Not like I offered it for no reason like most guys. Reluctantly paid. Key difference to me at least).
    Lady Bartender: lol

    We’re grabbing each other’s asses. I try to kiss her again. Denied. We take the shots.

    Me: I wanna go dance.
    Arm in arm, we head upstairs to the dancefloor. Instantly lets go of me and runs to some short black dude (she has a thing for black guys and I’m guessing her bf is also black) and he’s with his friends so lol I rub my ass on her and she’s like “No get away” ignoring me. So I’m like whatever. My wings are still here so I go dance with them.

    She runs back to me and grabs my hand. We dance. I try to kiss her again. Denied. She turns around and grinds on me. I can’t believe a girl this hot is dancing on me like this. We go to the speakers next to the booths and she’s grinding on me again. Feeling awesome:

    HB8: Let me get on your back! Piggyback!
    Me: Okay.
    She gets on my back, chokes me, screams and shit, I put her down.
    Me: Alright, I’m tired, go dance.
    HB8 lays down in the booth. I get on top of her and try to kiss her again. I get the cheek.

    I get off of her and she pushes me on the seat, gets on top of me and dry humps me lol. I concluded the sex would’ve been awesome.

    HB8: Do you have a big black cock?
    Me: Yes.
    After a bit more of that and EVERYBODY looking at us, HB8 pulls me out and says we should go back to her hotel. I’m like, sure (!!!!) This is like… a dream come true. Never in a million years would I have thought that this would be happening with a girl this hot…

    I carry her down the stairs (she says “Wheee I’m a princess” lol) and I’m somehow banned from this bar for the rest of the night because of it (???) and I lose my ticket and can’t get my coat.

    We get into a taxi, she gets into the front seat and I’m in the back. She just jumps in and I’m like… OKAY…

    She starts crying about her boyfriend (also her manager) and her shitty life as a stripper, dancing on scumbags. I comfort her (I guess?) by just telling her some personal stuff of mine. Her life is way worse, so I’m like, man, that sucks… not sure what else I can say.

    We make it to her hotel room and just as things get interesting… she can’t find her hotel key. I’m like… how can you lose that? Me still being realistic, I think that she’s probably done this before and her friends most likely have her key to prevent her from being an idiot (aka cheat on her bf). As if on cue, her friends show up five mins later and say “You’re not supposed to bring random strangers to our hotel!. I just bow out lol… I can’t help but feel that I could’ve charmed them and gotten in anyway. Oh well, didn’t get a chance to test that hypothesis. Or if I lived NEARBY or gotten to a motel or SOMETHING… I honestly wasn’t thinking ahead… bringing two condoms was the EXTEND of my planning lol

    And YUP paid for the cab to and from her hotel lol. I go game some other girls in a different bar, but eh they’re okay. Like, 6’s.

    And that was my awesome almost lay report lol. Lost 3 ONS’s in one weekend. Better luck next time…

    Like


    • I can’t believe I just read all that.

      Couple things. That stripper wasn’t an almost ONS. She was a time waster. You will soon be able to tell the difference quicker.

      And your wing wasn’t being a wing he was being a dick and you need to call him on it. He who opens owns. Work on your signals with your wing. Maybe you should have had your arm around the chick after she was your ‘girlfriend’ so he knew. I finally noticed my wing has been ignoring the rules and blowing sets and I’ve been going solo lately with better results.

      If you blow a set it don’t matter but always get the number so you can experiment with fucking up some more. When the chicks were walking away you could have yelled, “stop.” And then said, “give me your number.” If said with authority you could regain hand and salvage it.

      Btw, I’m ignoring all that BS with the stripper. It’s all mental masturbation. It was a fun night and they should all be like that. Thing is, don’t attempt a make out in a bar. It makes the chick look like a slut and will kill any sexual tension you’re building.
      She duped you for a drink. Next time, “you’re acting like feminism never happened, what do I get?” “not good enough”.
      Finally, stop pulling the chick into the bar when you should be pulling her into a taxi.
      I’m glad you’re having fun. Good luck, bro.

      Like


      • “Couple things. That stripper wasn’t an almost ONS. She was a time waster. You will soon be able to tell the difference quicker.”

        Lol fine, fine i get it, it sucked. I dunno, I feel like I still could’ve fucked her though. I didn’t chase her around the bar, I came back for her ONE time. Fine, she got on my back, but then I pushed her off and told her to go dance (like, okay, bye). Okay paid for her drink… sure. Probably shouldn’t have done that. Never again (unless it comes from a place of higher value). Lesson learned.

        “And your wing wasn’t being a wing he was being a dick and you need to call him on it. He who opens owns. Work on your signals with your wing. Maybe you should have had your arm around the chick after she was your ‘girlfriend’ so he knew. I finally noticed my wing has been ignoring the rules and blowing sets and I’ve been going solo lately with better results.”

        Yeah he was just being an idiot, no big deal. He’s a newbie, I’m a newbie, I’ll let him know next time.

        “If you blow a set it don’t matter but always get the number so you can experiment with fucking up some more. When the chicks were walking away you could have yelled, “stop.” And then said, “give me your number.” If said with authority you could regain hand and salvage it.”

        “Btw, I’m ignoring all that BS with the stripper. It’s all mental masturbation. It was a fun night and they should all be like that. Thing is, don’t attempt a make out in a bar. It makes the chick look like a slut and will kill any sexual tension you’re building.”

        Yeah I was just practicing the makeout mission from YaReally.

        “She duped you for a drink. Next time, “you’re acting like feminism never happened, what do I get?” “not good enough”.
        Finally, stop pulling the chick into the bar when you should be pulling her into a taxi.”

        Got it.

        I was scared half the time to be honest. Thought I would get laid. And yes, it was all mental masturbation cuz it was awesome lol yes didn’t get the lay… I get it.

        Learned my lesson.

        Like


      • I see where you’re coming from. This is a very sensitive time because you are smashing the walls of your comfort zone. Be careful not to backwards rationalize events to make it more palatable to your ego. Keep yourself open to reevaluate things. I constantly fuck up and experiment with things. I even fuck up sure things. But I always try to be honest with myself when analyzing after. It’s good that you even prefaced your stripper bit by saying you were mentally masturbating so you knew. I guess my tinge could’ve been softer.
        Yareally’s mission was to go for the makeout as soon as possible with as many girls as possible in a night, not the same girl. And without expectations of outcome. If it was the makeout mission then you would’ve done so with the girls earlier too.
        I’m not trying to get you down. Everything you’ve written is like me from years ago. That’s how I know. That’s how all of us know.

        I say it was not an almost ONS because if you got to her room, the stripper would have likely passed out or pushed you away with heavy LMR. So don’t beat yourself up by shoulda coulda. You’re doin great. Everyone’s comments have been excellent so far. So I hope you take em to heart and keep pushing yourself. One thing I tell newbs when I’m in field is that them knowing a modicum of pick up puts them above 95% of the dudes out there. You are no longer the guy by the wall with his buddies behind a beer shield complaining about all the douchbags. You are the douchbag and it feels awesome.

        Like


      • It’s all good man 🙂 You’re trying to help and I need to acknowledge that. I was way outta my league (experience-wise), but I threw myself in there and it was definitely worth it.

        Yeah, wasn’t doing the mission lol but I did think about it when I tried to kiss her… I’m going outta town this weekend so I’ll make it happen then.

        “You are no longer the guy by the wall with his buddies behind a beer shield complaining about all the douchbags. You are the douchbag and it feels awesome.”

        You said it! lol

        Like


      • I think my reply got eaten up, check back later. Thanks for the tips.

        Like


    • ‘Me: (to Mexican HB7 coming out of bar): YOU. Who are you?
      HB7Mex: Hi… (eyes get huge).
      Me: What are you doing here?
      HB7Mex: Hanging out with my friend.
      (Friend giggles, my wing comes in)’

      As someone who regularly goes out with a wing, I’d say this is probably too early to have the Wing come in. You should be past the SHP and well in to A2 before you bring in the Wing. Or at least, we’ve tried doing it earlier and later and that seems to be the best time.

      ‘Me: … So what do you do for fun?
      HB7Mex: I dance.
      Me: Like this? (rubbing my ass on her)
      HB7Mex: Uhhhh… no, I do this Mexican style of dance (yup, we were already in comfort. And I cluelessly ignored that fact).’

      I think you were still getting to SHP. If you were in comfort, liiiiike…..she would be chatting you up, constantly asking you questions, talking in big paragraphs, etc. (IMHO).

      This is a great point to hook the set tho!
      ‘Oh yeah, show me!’
      ‘Cool, what’s it called?’

      And actually, at this point you probably want to focus on your obstacle, rather than your target to get her invested. That makes getting to SHP WAY easier in a 2 set. Drop a flirty bomb on the target — which you did — THEN switch it up and start chatting up the friend. When done right, it’s very effective.

      There does seem to be at least a spark with this girl tho, you probably could have turned that into a fire (or lay).

      ‘(Wing jumps in)
      Wing: I’m cold, why don’t you hug me? (Hugs my target… yeah…)
      HB7Mex: Uhhh, maybe you should hug my friend. This is my boyfriend (looks at me)
      Me: … (lol yup, I’m retarded…)
      Wing: (some words I forget)
      HB7.5Mex: Alright we’re gonna go. Bye guys.’

      Ya she went along with your roleplay, even if she was trying to come off like she was tooling you….which is always an IOI on some level. PROBLEM: your wing, wtf lol. He rolls in 2 seconds into set, stays silent, then his FIRST move is to hug the girl you’re talking to? lmfao.

      Set up some signals between you and your wing — it makes shit run way smooth. A signal for when you want him to roll in, and also some sort of routine you can run to subtly communicate which girl is your target and which girl you want him to talk to (unless it’s fucking obvious….like there’s a whale and an HB in the same set lol)

      ‘Cute girl (HB7.5) I meet outside a bar. (Honestly, I’m not sure how to rate these girls. I would definitely bang them and show them off to friends, but they’re definitely not models… and they could look MORE attractive… so I dunno, I think there’s a CH post in here with ratings and numbers, I’ll try to dig it up. I recall Scray breaking it down.’

      EDIT: Sample rating scale: http://puahate.com/showthread.php?t=17604)’

      Uh, ya I’ve seen that scale. I just kno that how I rate vs that scale is like whatever I say +1.5. My two LTR ex-gfs look like girls in the 6 camp, but I thought they were 5’s. It really doesn’t matter tho — whatever you like is whatever you like, tbh.

      ‘Me: Hey, what’re you up to?
      HB7.5: I’m like, hanging outside. My friends are inside 🙂
      Me: Yo, do you smoke (weed)?
      HB7.5: TOTALLY. My house is like 10 mins away.
      Me: We should totally smoke sometime.’

      Hahaha. None of this is bad, it’s just you’re doing too much too soon. If you want a non-flake number, you’re gonna have to put in about 15 minutes of good conversation and DHVing (provided she gets attracted to you in that first 5 minutes).

      To put it into perspective — me and the 7 had a great first meet. She still flaked on me. And had I not txted her or done something, she probably would have just kept on living her life lol. Now that girl is crazy in love with me and kind of needy. So….you really just need to view it with that mindset. Young hot women live in a world of abundance. It takes awhile for a man to show himself as a scarce commodity (unless she immediately likes you or whatever).

      The whole stripper situation is….

      ….well, first of all, seems like she was an attention whore. That’s not to say she didn’t like you, but her shit testing is going to be a little different. Her push-pulling you (ya that’s probably what she was doing…poorly cause she was drunk) and all that other shit was her seeing what kind of power she had over you. And you kept trying to kiss her and chase her, which fed her ego and her desirability. Think about it….her bf is nowhere to be found. His hot stripper gf is at the club, denying dudes who want her left and right, and this dude is just….off (probably fucking someone else). Yet she cries to you about him, instead of fucking you.

      Honestly, the solution probably would have been to keep the sexual escalation out of the conversation completely. Don’t let her jump on your back, don’t pay for her drink, and when she comes over to you to dance, make sure you’re less invested. When she leaves, you leave. Just walk away.

      Granted, I’m only analogizing to the attention whores I see out in field — ACTUAL strippers may be different. My experiences with them have been fairly similar, altho I just never pay for shit or emotionally do anything for a chick until I’ve at least gotten a kiss…so I’ve never really been down the same rabbit hole you went into. If I were you, I’d adopt those rules ‘never buy her a drink, never take on any of her emotional baggage’ until after you have fucked her.

      ‘HB8: Kim Kardasian? Kim Kardashian’s fat. I’m skinny. I have abs.
      Me: (grabbing her flat stomach) POOCHY, POOCHY, POOCHY LOL
      HB8: I am 110 lbs!
      Me: Oh really? (I carry her in my arms, she grabs onto me) Oh.. hmm… pretty light. God you’re so cute.
      HB8: I only like Kanye.
      Me: I AM fucking Kanye!
      HB8: … I have a boyfriend. He’s rich. He buys me things.
      Me: … Uhhhh, I don’t wanna be your boyfriend, I like having fun. You can keep him. I wish I was you I want presents too.’

      This is where she was digging you. This was a tiny little power struggle for who wanted the approval. She qualified herself with the abs and her weight — but you let her have the validation she wanted. Then she turned right back around with the Kanye remark, and you immediately said that you WERE what she liked. Then you walked inside and came back after her…

      Another rule that has served me well ‘if she ever says she likes something, or that you gave the wrong answer to a question, the right answer is some form of I don’t give a shit.’

      Her: I like Kanye
      Me: I like Megan Fox (actually, the secret is to name a girl who is the OPPOSITE of them….so if they are a brunette with smaller bewbs, name a blonde with larger bewbs, etc. etc. it drives ’em crazy when they think they’re not your type. not sure why). We both like great things.

      Her: I am 110 lbs!
      Me: Maybe your bones are big?

      Her: I have a boyfriend, he’s rich, he buys me things.
      Me: Did he buy me a condom to use tonight? Otherwise he’s dead to me.

      Notice how that last line gives you the easy out:
      Her: Who said we’re doing anything tonight?
      Me: Who said I’m using the condom on you, lol.

      If you would have had this attitude, she would have called you an asshole and been more attracted.

      Like


      • “As someone who regularly goes out with a wing, I’d say this is probably too early to have the Wing come in. You should be past the SHP and well in to A2 before you bring in the Wing. Or at least, we’ve tried doing it earlier and later and that seems to be the best time.”

        Lol we don’t plan anything hahaha no worries, we’ll plan shit next time.

        “I think you were still getting to SHP. If you were in comfort, liiiiike…..she would be chatting you up, constantly asking you questions, talking in big paragraphs, etc. (IMHO).”

        Ohhh, I get it. Thanks, clears some things up.

        “And actually, at this point you probably want to focus on your obstacle, rather than your target to get her invested. That makes getting to SHP WAY easier in a 2 set. Drop a flirty bomb on the target — which you did — THEN switch it up and start chatting up the friend. When done right, it’s very effective.”

        Nice, great stuff here!

        “Hahaha. None of this is bad, it’s just you’re doing too much too soon. If you want a non-flake number, you’re gonna have to put in about 15 minutes of good conversation and DHVing (provided she gets attracted to you in that first 5 minutes).”

        Lol she actually texted me back tonight and said she left on Sunday blah blah blah. Most likely fucked some other dude cuz she texted me after the weekend was over.

        “The whole stripper situation is….

        ….well, first of all, seems like she was an attention whore. That’s not to say she didn’t like you, but her shit testing is going to be a little different. Her push-pulling you (ya that’s probably what she was doing…poorly cause she was drunk) and all that other shit was her seeing what kind of power she had over you. And you kept trying to kiss her and chase her, which fed her ego and her desirability. Think about it….her bf is nowhere to be found. His hot stripper gf is at the club, denying dudes who want her left and right, and this dude is just….off (probably fucking someone else). Yet she cries to you about him, instead of fucking you.”

        Yeah she was acting pretty randomly. Okay fine, should’ve stopped trying to kiss her. Okay, chased her TWICE (made a mistake in my response to pulsotic sorry). But I don’t get it, I didn’t even talk to her that much lol she kinda just said stuff and I was like yeah, my family sucks too and then she’d bitch more and then I just gave up lol. “Man, that sucks… (silence)”. I never once like, actually discussed anything. I’ve concluded she just wanted to fuck me based on my looks and sub par game. Like, I don’t think she took me to her hotel just to talk about her bf… though she was definitely texting him while we were in the club, outside, and in the elevator hahaha sigh… funny the things you randomly forget…. I glanced at her phone and she texted “We broken up?” Do you think she brought me to her place for no reason (honestly, I should’ve led. Gonna practice that this weekend)?

        “Honestly, the solution probably would have been to keep the sexual escalation out of the conversation completely. Don’t let her jump on your back, don’t pay for her drink, and when she comes over to you to dance, make sure you’re less invested. When she leaves, you leave. Just walk away.”

        Yeah, never gamed a stripper before. Or attempted to in this case.

        “Granted, I’m only analogizing to the attention whores I see out in field — ACTUAL strippers may be different. My experiences with them have been fairly similar, altho I just never pay for shit or emotionally do anything for a chick until I’ve at least gotten a kiss…so I’ve never really been down the same rabbit hole you went into. If I were you, I’d adopt those rules ‘never buy her a drink, never take on any of her emotional baggage’ until after you have fucked her.”

        Nah, you’re probably right. Never again.

        “This is where she was digging you. This was a tiny little power struggle for who wanted the approval. She qualified herself with the abs and her weight — but you let her have the validation she wanted. Then she turned right back around with the Kanye remark, and you immediately said that you WERE what she liked. Then you walked inside and came back after her…”

        Ah… I blame my penis for this. The Kanye statement lol I actually thought that was funny. Like for myself. But yeah, got it 🙂

        “If you would have had this attitude, she would have called you an asshole and been more attracted.”

        Sigh, you’ve definitely given me some things to think about.

        Like


      • ‘ Do you think she brought me to her place for no reason (honestly, I should’ve led. Gonna practice that this weekend)?’

        She brought you back, I’m guessing, because she was trying to console herself over her bf. So in this situ you need to reframe the bf as an insecure niceguy while simultaneously not giving a fuck about him or his mention while at the same time not indulging her desire to converse about him and turn you into an emotional tampon. I’ve never done this with a bf, but I have done it with alpha orbiters. So….YMMV obviously.

        Lol women do stupid crazy shit. Just remember that she wanted you to validate her in one way or another. That’s not to say you couldn’t have fucked her tho. In her mind she’s like ‘ya im just gonna use him as an emotional tampon’ but in your mind, ‘she’s vulnerable, time to strike.’ Make yourself the source of that validation — now that you’re all alone, let her kno that she’s not really that hot (subtle — ‘people are so superficial, i kno i can be….i mean that’s probably what would keep me from you. something stupid, you know? like how your nose/forehead/etc. does this…even tho ur a great girl) I mean….not gonna lie, it’s a little Machiavellian but…it is what it is. That type of shit would probably work in this situation.

        Essentially, you have to use their flaws against them. The 6 is kind of an attention whore, and thinking back, this is kind of what I did. This frame I set also unfortunately made me kind of resent her as a person.

        ‘Sigh, you’ve definitely given me some things to think about.’

        Rejoice tho! This is the best FR you’ve put up, man. You’re starting to get into and go for it more. Great stuff.

        Like


      • Great tactics here… in the back of my head at the time, had I encountered resistance… I was probably going to do a freezeout (complete attention removal) or just sleep over and jack off next to her lol (“what would Tyler do…?” is usually my thought process).

        “Rejoice tho! This is the best FR you’ve put up, man. You’re starting to get into and go for it more. Great stuff.”

        Thanks! Def looking forward to the weekend.

        Like


    • on November 11, 2013 at 8:47 pm PimpinBlueStar aka preenis

      good stuff man. honestly the thing that sticks out to me to watch for is how the hb8 lead parts of the convo…losing a bit of respect for you each time. i’ve seen “player” girls do this SO many times and yes, they are shit tests. she’s out for some emotional kicks, some grinding and free drinks….UNLESS she gets turned on by the asshole that gets what she’s doing and doesn’t fall into the traps. you gotta stand out from the guys that she plays, which if it’s a stripper, it’s a lot.

      it was a bit of a shock to me at first because take your example when she ordered patron shots: what i USED to do is not wanna fuck up the vibe and be “cool” about it like “alright but YOU are getting the next round!” so while i would try to be chill about the whole thing, unfortunately, she’s thinking “hmm dude is turning out to be a little lame” and i would wind up with a ton of LMR (assuming i got back with her) or wallllla…her friends would magically show up. some girls you can get away with that shit being cool but for the “asshole” equivalent girls (aka cockteases) you gotta be icy.

      this seems weird to me even typing it, but when she was spilling her guts to you in the cab, it’s best to let her “fall on her face” per say. it’s a fake emotional plea to see how you’ll react — if even in the slightest you’ll run in to save her. she doesn’t fuck those guys unless they pay or conditions line up just right for the guy where she’s like “ehh why not” even though the game ran on her wasn’t good….maybe the guy is good looking and at that moment in time he can get laid on it alone. a better option as she’s saying that shit is “well im sure you’ll be able to work it out” and then to the cab driver “now how far is the hotel from here?”. not in a mean way, but a emotion-neutral way like “me discussing your problems is not an option for you, but good luck with that”

      the buttrubbing can be a funny move and i can see tyler doing it. but are you doing it to be funny with the intention of gaining acceptance from their group (caring) or just in the zone going from one to the next and living the night on your terms (uncaring)? if you’re gonna be that bear, be the grizzly.

      “HB7Mex: Uhhh, maybe you should hug my friend. This is my boyfriend (looks at me)
      Me: … (lol yup, I’m retarded…)”

      ahhh you got rattled!! lol happened to me many times in the past. remember though: you aren’t doing anything wrong, so there’s no need to feel shame. ever. if her eyes were dialted when you spoke, then she’s intrigued and it’s worth it to see if the “bf” (fake or not) will hinge on your taking it further. get that number and give yourself just another option in the night.

      “HB8: … I have a boyfriend. He’s rich. He buys me things.
      Me: … Uhhhh, I don’t wanna be your boyfriend, I like having fun. You can keep him. I wish I was you I want presents too.”

      you missed a good agree&amp opprotunity or a complete reframe. answering straight on doens’t help with “experienced” girls such as this whore. “yea santa’s good to me to you could say…” would have been mine fyi.

      “e: Look, you’re hot, I get that, but what else can you do? Like you’re a human (?).”

      compliment a cocktease and she’ll manipulate you into oblivion.

      overall tho good stuff. you clearly know more than 95% of most guys ever will. good luck.

      Like


      • “good stuff man. honestly the thing that sticks out to me to watch for is how the hb8 lead parts of the convo…losing a bit of respect for you each time. i’ve seen “player” girls do this SO many times and yes, they are shit tests. she’s out for some emotional kicks, some grinding and free drinks….UNLESS she gets turned on by the asshole that gets what she’s doing and doesn’t fall into the traps. you gotta stand out from the guys that she plays, which if it’s a stripper, it’s a lot.”

        I definitely felt like this was going to be a mutual rebound fuck and not an “I’m so turned on by this asshole” fuck.

        “this seems weird to me even typing it, but when she was spilling her guts to you in the cab, it’s best to let her “fall on her face” per say. it’s a fake emotional plea to see how you’ll react — if even in the slightest you’ll run in to save her. she doesn’t fuck those guys unless they pay or conditions line up just right for the guy where she’s like “ehh why not” even though the game ran on her wasn’t good….maybe the guy is good looking and at that moment in time he can get laid on it alone. a better option as she’s saying that shit is “well im sure you’ll be able to work it out” and then to the cab driver “now how far is the hotel from here?”. not in a mean way, but a emotion-neutral way like “me discussing your problems is not an option for you, but good luck with that””

        Addressed this in my response to Scray, read above.

        “the buttrubbing can be a funny move and i can see tyler doing it. but are you doing it to be funny with the intention of gaining acceptance from their group (caring) or just in the zone going from one to the next and living the night on your terms (uncaring)? if you’re gonna be that bear, be the grizzly.”

        I definitely did it for myself at first. The second time with the stripper was to gauge her reaction and to see if she was still into me (fine, CARING). She seemed to not be, so I left.

        “compliment a cocktease and she’ll manipulate you into oblivion.

        overall tho good stuff. you clearly know more than 95% of most guys ever will. good luck.”

        Sigh, I’m not even close to being the dude I thought I was being last weekend: uncaring fun guy. Rather I turned out to be semi-reactive and a weak leader.

        Thanks for the advice, everyone.

        Like


    • lololololllol awesome. This was great. Massive props for pushing your comfort zone lol

      It was possible to fuck the stripper but it would have taken a certain style/intensity of game that you’re not at right now…basically you did good but got in over your head into a situation that you don’t have the experience to handle yet. NO BIG DEAL at all, that’s just a natural part of learning, there is still a TON you can take away from that interaction. You handled a LOT of her shit-tests beautifully.

      Will do a full-out breakdown on all of this, check back before the weekend. Awesome stuff man, your game is looking better, you’re displaying your personality to girls more.

      Like


      • Hahaha thanks, man! It was scary for sure, especially when we got in the taxi…

        The encouragement is definitely good to hear. I finally feel like I’m moving in the right direction. Like, yeah rejection after rejection isn’t a big deal, but where am I heading? Am I heading anywhere at all? I was thinking like that for a while.

        What’s holding me back from making out with these chicks? From leading? Practice. Just like approaching a lot, gotta makeout and lead a lot, and then eventually it won’t be a thing anymore…

        Can’t wait for the breakdown! I know they take a lot of work, so I’ll be patient 🙂

        Like


  49. i coulda sworn there was a more recent post here earlier today

    Like


  50. Is this the DARVO you’re speaking of?

    Like


  51. Thing is also in relation to the paragraphs about taming the man; when and if she does succeed in taming him, she will eventually resent it and move on or make his life miserable.

    Like


  52. on November 11, 2013 at 8:21 am Holden Caulfield

    The black guy is pissed that he didn’t win solely by being black:

    http://news.yahoo.com/white-guy-pretends-to-be-black-to-win-election-212328015.html?vp=1

    “He never put out to voters that he was white,” Austin said.

    Intriguing comment.

    Like


  53. Oh shit. Its here. Virtual sex Oculus Rift with feedback.
    (some dude humping a machine to some Anime shit with VR goggles on) http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d5d_1384199712

    Like


  54. Off Topic.

    But today is Veterans Day. Does Chateau have anything in the backlog that acknowledges all those brave Alphas who screw the wives of men in the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines who end up downrange?

    Because I don’t live in SWPL land, I’ve already seen two of these such Alphas get beaten to pieces. How does the alpha defend himself from the non-SWPL Beta who is ready to throw down?

    Like


    • proves why r-select pussybegging =/= true alpha male sexual competitor

      tell these niggaz to hit the gym and pop in a karate vhs because thats what the unawared govt merc is practicing while they’re trying practicing openers and kino and dhvz

      Like


    • Concealed carry? AFAIK the law enforcement types are those that one has to REALLY worry about.

      Like


    • Sooo, did the “alpha” keep on fucking the skans after the return of the mercs?

      Like


  55. Guys, Jalon Cain, who wrote the AVFM article, is Aaron Sleazy – the famous PUA/seducer turned anti-PUA after getting a girlfriend who hates PUAs.

    Like


  56. Pre-selection is very strong among women.

    Like


  57. Every single one of their arguments could be used as a basis for not owning a dog. “You’re putting the paws on a pedestal! Dogs should just behave! If a puppy isn’t house trained and does not know how to sit on command right when you first get it, you should leave it on the side of the road.”

    Like


  58. wala, let it go. She is a waste of time. One big offense and/or 5 minor offenses is enough.

    Like


  59. […] That’s not all, because mainstream relationship madams also tell you how you should react to his a… […]

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