More Science Confirming Game Concepts: Long-Term Relationships Can Bring Out The Worst In Couples

Digging through the archives of the Chateau Heartiste library, we find a post about the hazards of LTRs and marriage.

Now you can’t do anything without her, and she you. In the beginning, this is a necessary process to build the level of trust and bonding that distinguishes the LTR from any run of the mill fling. But it morphs into a hermetic pair-bond cocoon, a soft escapable prison that shields from the outside world more than it protects. Increasingly consanguineous, the LTR alienates friends and slackens ambitions.

Scary stuff. Science has something to say about the deleterious effects of marriage on the female body, as well:

•Women in their teens and early 20s who continued to date but didn’t cohabitate gained an average of 15 pounds over five years; their male counterparts added about 24 pounds.

•Newly married women in that age group packed on 24 pounds in five years; newly married men gained 30 pounds.

That degree of gain wasn’t seen in couples who were living together but not married. Women gained 3 pounds more than their single peers — 18 pounds — and men gained 24 pounds.

When you see photos of the groom stuffing the bride’s mouth full of wedding cake as she licks down every last ounce of sloppy creamed filling, you may as well be watching the groom disposing of his sex and love life down her maw. But as we all know, men get very, very stupid about marrying the first semi-decent pussy who comes along.

The latest from the scientific front presents more CH-confirming evidence that LTRs and marriage have negative consequences for their practitioners.

For better or for worse, in sickness and in health – there’s a long line of research that associates marriage with reducing unhealthy habits such as smoking, and promoting better health habits such as regular checkups. However, new research is emerging that suggests married straight couples and cohabiting gay and lesbian couples in long-term intimate relationships may pick up each other’s unhealthy habits as well. […]

Corinne Reczek, a UC assistant professor of sociology, reports three distinct findings into how unhealthy habits were promoted through these long-term, intimate relationships: through the direct bad influence of one partner, through health habit synchronicity and through the notion of personal responsibility.

Reczek reports that gay, lesbian and straight couples all described the “bad influence” theme, while in straight partnerships, men were nearly always viewed as the “bad influence.” [ed: there go women again, abdicating all reason and accountability.]

[…] “Third, respondents utilized a discourse of personal responsibility to describe how even when they observe their partner partaking in an unhealthy habit, they do not attempt to change the habit, indicating that they were complicit in sustaining their partner’s unhealthy habits. The final theme was described primarily by straight men and women,” says Reczek.

So if your partner has unhealthy habits, (smoking, drinking to excess, overeating, underexercising, staying up late to watch Modern Family recordings or Jon Stewart smugly sing to the SWPL choir), you will likely pick up those bad habits. And thus we see how the fat acceptance movement gets its steam — osmotic inevitability. (In related news, according to the Red Cross, there are more obese than there are hungry in the world. We’ve entered the era of globulization.)

Of particular interest in the above study is the evidence that women, and presumably their lapdog betabitchboys, placed the blame for being a bad influence squarely on the men’s shoulders. It’s obvious to those in the know that this blame-shifting is complete bullshit, since (just to pick an easily discernible example at random) there are innumerable couples where the woman has gotten fat while the man stayed slim. Nothing will kill a man’s desire to please his woman in every way faster than the disfigurement of her body caused by bloating up from bellying up to the buffet.

Is there an enterprise in existence where women will blame themselves for something bad they did? To ask the question is to laugh at female absurdity. The rationalization hamster is a cosmic force on par with dark matter; you can’t see the little bugger, but goddamn is he everywhere, redirecting galactic phenomena at will.

Also interesting is the last line quoted above from the study. Partners are complicit in sustaining their SO’s bad habits because they don’t call them out on it. I think we can figure out who is most responsible for this dereliction of duty: sackless beta males who are afraid of the divorce raping and/or sex withholding they will assuredly receive if they displease their queen sovereigns by timidly mentioning in squeaky-voiced passing their increasing girth. Women, for their part, don’t attempt to change their partners’ bad habits for a different reason: they don’t have a clue how to articulate what is wrong with their beta boyfriends and hubbies.

This post, and others like it, is a helpful reminder to the “marriage is best” crowd that marriage — and, similarly, LTRs — hold special dangers for the man who allows himself to become ensnared. An LTR is a beautiful thing with the right woman and undertaken with the right alpha attitude, but it isn’t a panacea for all psychological, emotional or sexual needs, and it isn’t without its own problems that men who serially date don’t experience. When you commit to a woman with the intent of remaining monogamous, you acquire new obstacles to navigate and problems to avoid. Failure to recognize those LTR-inherent deficiencies and counteract them will lead to exile in betaville, where begging for blowjobs once per year and praying you don’t get reamed in court if she gets bored become part of the wonderful fabric of life.

As with everything you venture to explore, do it with your eyes open. Otherwise, you may as well hand your decision-making process over to a committee of cog-molding industrialists and ball-chopping feminists.





Comments


  1. It may bring out the worst in couples, but it creates a more stable environment where their offspring (carriers of the genes) will be able to increase the parents’ inclusive fitness (if the parents are of the same race).

    Finn

    Article of the week:

    “Problems with Mixed-Race Families, Marriages and Relationships”

    http://sociobiologicalmusings.blogspot.com/2011/10/problems-with-mixed-race-marriages-and.html

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    • What’s with the link to that pseudoscience? Everyone knows that marriage is for chumps. The fact that they would base so much of their pontificating on an inherently broken system (marriage) already indicates they’re not thinking critically.

      Moreover, the focus on pseudoscientific “racial purity” is why harmful mutations get fixed in a population. There’s a reason why inbreeding is looked down on. Two half retards who are racial purists will just ensure that their spawn go full retard.

      Luckily evolution is smarter than racial purists who aren’t well read enough to know why sexual reproduction is beneficial in the first place (the concept of racial purity will yield results closer to asexual reproduction, as far as genetic fitness goes).

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      • Go breed with some Aboriginal Australians.

        I’m certain the hybrid-vigor will do your offspring some good.

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      • Well, I agree that ‘race’ does not guarantee quality, the best marriage partner is undoubtedly someone who is both of high quality and racially compatible. There are all sorts of reasons why race matters (read J. Philippe Rushton’s work on ethnic competition).

        Plus, you’ve made the classic fallacy among miscegenators: just because inbreeding may be bad, that doesn’t necessarily mean that outbreeding is good. There is plenty of room to ‘air out’ your genes within your race without perpetuating dangerous mutations due to genetic closeness.

        Marriage is for two kinds of people: those who have the sufficient genetic predisposition toward such relationships, and those who, without such genetic influence, have enough cultural support to sustain such relationships. Since America has lost its monogamy-enforcing cultural and legal mechanisms, this inevitably results in the shift toward monogamy only for those who are wired for it genetically (or at least genes become the dominant influence). See, for instance, the relationship between intercourse and intelligence. It’s all about ‘Life History Theory’!

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    • All this data is on black-white relationships. How about white male-Asian woman? Seems like a good mix, high testosterone male submissive woman.

      All the comments say the Asian/White kids have a tough time with their identity, anyone know if this is true?

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      • I’m white, my gf is Asian. We have 2 kids. The only “identity problem” that exists is on the Asian side via jealous family members. That’s all there is to it. It’s not just us; my gf’s Asian friends who have mixed kids go through the same thing. Any extra emotional baggage these kids end up with is due to jealous family members in Asia. Sorry but it’s the truth.

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  2. ALL relationships involve slippery slopes. If you slide a little, you WILL slide more as “comfort” and “security” sets in.

    When you’re single, you have plenty of time to engage in doing things with your friends — and you should. Social proof comes from actually doing things with other people and being too busy to jump at a woman’s requests.

    Once you get into a long term relationship, you should not just continue to do things with others, you should also go out of your way to do some things you don’t normally do, at least randomly.

    The worst thing ever for a long term relationship is giving a woman the knowledge of your schedule for her. Don’t see her every Friday, don’t always sleep over or let her sleep over (the second is especially true), don’t always pick her up (have her meet you places, even a year later), don’t slack and constantly answer her calls or respond to her texts instantly.

    I don’t know what it is with my own LTRs, but around the 1 year mark, I always notice myself slipping — and that’s when I notice her interest in me decline a little bit. My last LTR that fell apart did so entirely because I let myself slip just three times after 2 years, and it was over in about a month after that. I blame myself.

    Now, work comes first (but not too much work), friends come second, and the dames come third, tied with family. Ahead of all that, though, is my own time to travel or just do things I want to do, alone.

    If she feels like she’s top priority, she’s already on the pedestal — it’s almost too late to knock her off of it. Dopamine highs for women in power aren’t easy to break without destroying the relationships. It can be done, but it’s better to set the standard early.

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    • ” Dopamine highs for women in power aren’t easy to break without destroying the relationships.”

      An excellent insight. It is illuminating to watch a woman as she savors the visceral ecstasy of power. Woman, in her natural state, is one of the weakest creatures in existence. Hence, experiencing power fills her with such an alien rush that it consumes her entire essence. She becomes addicted to it, and sacrifices her femininity to taste it.

      The only way for men to comprehend this strange behavior is to contrast it with our own guilty pleasure: status. Unlike women, men are born worthless. Women are the most precious resource upon birth, while young boys are by far the most disposable. When a man gains status and is desired by others, he experiences the emotional high that is reserved for females: desire. It is an interesting feeling when a man is respected by men and desired by women. It becomes painfully addictive, and a man does whatever is necessary to protect his newly found status. It becomes more important than his work, his mates, or his offspring.

      We are but puppets in old man evolution’s show, dancing to his ancient tune. We must see the strings if we are to influence our own fate.

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      • Everyone remotely interested in evo psych should check out Dark T’s blog.
        It elegantly puts things into perspective.

        Keep up.

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      • Yeah, almost as badass as yours. lol.

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      • “Women are the most precious resource upon birth, while young boys are by far the most disposable.”

        If that is so obvious a case, then why is there such a gender imbalance in China and India? Earlier this week, there was a report of a ceremony in India for young girls to change their names from the Hindi word for “unwanted”, or something similar.

        http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1074446

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      • Inherent value is notably different from potential value. Males are just as likely to be worth twenty billion dollars as CEO of the next Facebook as they are to die homeless. Female value, for the most part, is directly linked to their mating market value. In countries whose populations total a third of the world’s total, mating market value is trivial. Thus, parents would rather gamble at a chance for economic success with a son, rather than be stuck with a worthless daughter in an oversupplied mating market.

        These mechanics are quite novel in the history of man, as prior to the industrial revolution, a healthy womb was worth its weight in gold. Soldiers did not grow on trees, and empires without soldiers were doomed.

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      • you aren’t alone in your empirical head scratching. DT tends to pontificate on highly complex sociological matters in a oversimplified and extrapolated manner. you really caught him w the quote you cited; he makes a sweeping statement -the truth of which, as you proved by your egs of india and china, depends completely on context and differences in culture- and then rationalizes it not by admitting your contribution to the discussion as a worthy rebuttal but by going off on another “answer-for-everything” pseudo-academic lecture and concluding with an operatic melodramatic grand-strategy flourish that might feel good in his brian but irritates readers who have a more humble approach to the dynamics of human relations.

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      • An excellent ad hominem thrust, though it lacked intellectual momentum. Much to learn you still have, my student.

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      • im assuming petrified yoda is talking to me. if that’s the case, he clearly doesn’t know what AH is.

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      • *inter alia, my latin-phrase-posturing friend

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  3. should read “stewart sing smugly to the swpl choir”

    tisk tisk

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  4. As far as becoming complacent and allowing bad habits to transition from one partner to another, I’m seeing that in my marriage. She doesn’t like to cook and doesn’t like to eat my healthy food so I either cook her unhealthy food or I don’t eat it and we eat out (which I see as a total waste of money). When I was single, I was on a regimented food diet that I enjoyed doing. Now that I’m married I’ve become lazy. It’s very hard to be healthy when your partner does not carry their load or have those same interests.

    I loved the line “Failure to recognize those LTR-inherent deficiencies and counteract them will lead to exile in betaville, where begging for blowjobs once per year and praying you don’t get reamed in court if she gets bored become part of the wonderful fabric of life”. Total brilliance.

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    • I used to *love* eating out, but over the past 2-3 years realized that eating out isn’t just a waste of money, it’s really unhealthy. In Chicago — a center of supposedly fine dining — I’ve found 3 restaurants who will commit to a healthy menu of grass-fed, pastured beef and fats along with decent safe starches. That’s 3 out of literally thousands.

      If a woman I date won’t eat what I’m eating, she still better be able to learn to cook it. If not, there are other women desperate for male attention equal to her.

      Sidenote: my “diet” is simple: toss a sweet potato or vegetable in the oven; add butter to a hot pan, toss in a grass-fed beef burger or a piece of ruminant meat, cook 2-3 minutes per side, serve. It literally takes me a total of 1 hour *per week* to prepare my meals, and I have the food delivered to my shop every Tuesday so I don’t really have to waste time and gas and energy grocery shopping. My way of eating is part Kurt Harris, part Steve Guyenet — and I’ve lost a ton of weight and built muscle to prove it works.

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      • SABL

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      • WTF is this?

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      • that’s the beauty of learning to cook. you can buy a feast of the world’s best food and drink and pay as much as on frugal night out at a mediocre restaurant. this principle is amplified on anniversary nights (esp valentines day). there’s also the added benefit of being able to control your environment and what goes into your food, including being able to count calories for your date’s dish.

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      • Valentine’s Day — if you feel like she’s worth it — is a great night to plan one of those typically off-limits group dates. Tell your gal to invite one of her friends and her friend’s dudes, and then invite one of your dudes and his dame. Let the women set the tables and light the candles, men can prepare the food, women can cook it.

        Social proof explosion for all 3 guys, as you’ll interact with all the women individually and your own woman’s hamster will spin like crazy, even though she won’t notice her own interaction with the guys.

        I haven’t gone out to dinner for Valentine’s Day in probably 10 years — the last time I went I was beta’d up for a 9 and she tore my head off and crapped down my gaping neckhole. Steamy.

        If your woman can’t cook, there’s plenty of solid and comforting negs you can give her that will make her want to cook. And if you must, you tell her: “Woman, cast iron skillet, butter, meat, 3 minutes per side, serve.” It’s that easy.

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      • What if you don’t have alpha friends. Do you invite your beta friends and their girlfriends. Or do you plan a dinner night (at home) just with your girlfriend alone? What do you do if your friend is putting his girlfriend on pedestal, like when you want the women to set the table, and your male friend jumps in, wanting to do the work himself..

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      • I’ve found that my lower beta guy friends either learn through experience, or they stop coming over.

        There’s nothing wrong with being the AMOG in a group — if anything, your gal will get all the hornier for you when she sees how the other women interact with you.

        And if one of your guy friends gets mad at you for “flirting with his woman” — just tell him that she won’t be his woman for very long if he acts like a girl around her.

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      • AB Dada–
        Eating out is extremely unhealthy and it’s mind blowing when you find out how everything is loaded with extra salt, fat, cholesterol, etc. As far as my diet used to be pre-marriage—I made a lot of fruit and greek yogurt smoothies, ate nuts, salads and a lot of sweet potatoes and stir fries.

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    • Good habits can transition from one partner to another as well. Simply stop eating the crap and especially cooking it. If you are doing the cooking, you decide what to eat. (I know I say this and make it sound easy, but I do know how hard this is.) If she wants to eat out, let her, You stay home and eat your dinner. When she sees how good you look (hit the gym too, beef up), she’s gonna be pissed and turned on at the same time. Let her. She will probably join you in this. Especially if you somehow let her know that in your new found muscles more women are paying attention to you.

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      • This is very true. My diet was never bad when I was single, but my husband is a health nut. I adjusted my eating habits to fit his, and I will never go back. He also encouraged me to lift weights by asking me to “spot him” at the gym….he is sneaky. But he’s a great influence. I am in my late 20s and weigh the same I did at 16…I owe it all to him.

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      • stingray and anonymous–
        Good advice.

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      • on October 25, 2011 at 12:02 pm So, Do the Zonk

        This is exactly right. If the husband commits to improving himself, the wife will follow. It the husband starts getting fit, his wife will scramble to catch up. I don’t think it works the other way. The kids will notice and respond to it, too. If the man takes the lead, the whole family will improve. If not, the whole thing will drift. In any family, the man has to be leader. If he does not lead, the whole thing falls apart. It is a lot of responsibility. Still, it is rewarding when you see it work. The claim seen often on here that “marriage is for chumps” is an overstatement. In this day and age it fails for many people, for a lot of reasons. But millions of people do make it work. Avoid traps, do what works for you, don’t get into something you don’t want to do — but don’t convince yourself that something that has been around for thousands of years cannot be made to work if it is what the people involved want, and they are willing to work at it. One size does not fit all. But it fits many. And the game concepts on here are very helpful for any LTR including marriage. Truth about human nature is of universal application.

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  5. Delusion Damage wrote an article recently which jibes with what you say called, “Promising Commitment Is Asking for Bitchiness.” He states that if women can withhold or withdraw sex, men should be able to withhold or withdraw commitment. He tells men to stop playing by the old rules which are damaging to men. He’s right. It’s a great article along with the one posted here by Heartiste.
    Here’s the link
    http://delusiondamage.com/2011/10/18/promising-commitment-is-asking-for-bitchiness/

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  6. I suspect that girls in LTRS with higher betas or alphas will not let themselves go. If she does, next time she asks you how she looks, pause, look her up and down raise your eyebrows and say ‘maybe you should lay off the ben & jerrys”

    then smirk and go about your business

    for less attractive girls, if she starts to notice you hitting the gym and not being a fat fuck, she will follow suit.

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  7. OT:

    Haha, there’s always a beta at the end of every story:

    http://rumorfix.com/2011/10/the-prince-harry-kiss-photos-everyones-talking-about/

    I don’t care if it was a kiss or not. You don’t get into a serious LTR with a party girl, especially if you’re a beta.

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  8. The other night, the girl I’ve been seeing for the last 10 months says “Oh I’m going off the pill next month, I’ve been getting fat.”

    Me: Hit the gym.

    But clearly relationships ebb and flow….In these situations it’s best to keep a lower profile.

    We now see each other about once a week, down from about 3 times a week.

    In the meantime, I’m keeping in shape, going out, gaming other chicks.

    The lesson I’ve learned since understanding game is never stand still…

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    • *Fist Bump*

      When objectives are completed, success fueled complacency is your worst enemy. Set new, more challenging objectives.

      Never stand still.

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    • Cracked is “MSM” now? Heh.

      They’re surprisingly well-researched for a dick-joke site. Usually worth a read. And yes, if Cracked replaced MSNBC and The Onion replaced the New York Times, our avenues to information would be improved. I’m not even kidding.

      Like


    • on October 25, 2011 at 1:56 pm John Norman Howard

      OmegaBeta first bad-mouths racial cohesiveness, then comes here with a Cracked article by some snarky Jewess?

      Get thee behind me, Beevis.

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  9. “It’s obvious to those in the know that this blame-shifting is complete bullshit, since (just to pick an easily discernible example at random) there are innumerable couples where the woman has gotten fat while the man stayed slim.”

    I doubt that would stop women from blaming men either. They can always play the “you’re not supportive enough” card, or the “you have male metabolism and it’s unfair” card, which I’ve noticed is very popular among the tubby couch potatoettes of suburban America. One of my exes deployed this one on me.

    Yep, women won’t accept blame for much. The recent case in Queens of the woman shooting her husband *11 times* and then walking (except for a gun charge) is an excellent reminder. Feminists have completely rallied to her corner, on the thin claim that she was slapped around. Her smug grin during press conferences is disgusting, and she should be shunned by civilized society after she gets out of prison.

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  10. If you want to keep your health, you must learn to cook for yourself.

    WIth few exceptions restaurant food is prepared from the cheapest ingredients by the disease-ridden bottom feeders of society. Believe me, you don’t want to know what they were doing with that “grass-fed” hamburger meat in the kitchen!

    So buy a few basic cookbooks (Doubleday’s is very good), invest in some serious knives and pots & pans, buy fresh veggies and meats from a butcher you trust, and fire up the range and oven. You will find the basic stuff, grilling sauteing, steaming, is easy and soon you’ll be turning out grub far tastier and healthier than what you can get at 95% of most restaurants, for far less $$, too!

    It’s also a great way to get poon up to your place, as most woman today can’t boil water. But make sure you wear a waist apron and a white wife-beater while cooking for her, not one of those girly aprons that hang from the neck and cover the chest — very beta!

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    • I cook far better than most women but I made my wife learn to cook again. She used to cook for her younger siblings before becoming an urban single. She’s a good cook but the urban single life style suppressed that talent. Its beta to cook for women and validates feminism. Its better to shame them for not knowing how to cook. This is a great way to test them for LTR potential as well. Let it be known loud and clear that you don’t think any woman who can’t cook is worthy of marriage and they will be slinging pots and pans with the best of them. Asking them what kind of crap will your children eat is a great way to get them thinking about this issue. Joke about how cold cereal or take out pizza three times a day is a great diet and that all of us should live that way, etc. You should also remain unimpressed with anything they do that promotes a career versus a family, especially a useless woman career doing made up work at state expense. Praise wifely behavior and denigrate or devalue career oriented behavior.

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  11. Guys, America got over its eugenics craze 80 years ago. You may attempt to abdicate the responsibility of a volitional consciousness by leaping back into the primordial jungles of determinism and the biological mysticism of Freud, but your own destruction is all you will find there. I do not doubt the validity of many of the concepts discussed here, but it is the worst kind of intellectual laziness to attribute all human actions to the machinations of glandular secretion. As a somnambulist of faith claims supernatural revelations for the cause of whatever effects he can distinguish, the material zombie has no mind and claims reality to be whatever his genes were doing in a cave two million years ago. You should explain your positions in allegiance to man’s only true source of knowledge, Reason.

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  12. Marriage is about as bad for orderly relationships as high school is bad for the world perception of teenagers. People come out of school completely unprepared for the real world because nothing in school works like it does in the real world. Marriage doesn’t work like relationships that aren’t bound by the long arm of the law because, well, it’s the long arm of the law.

    You really don’t need science to show evidence for this kind of stuff. The principle guiding the actions exists and as long as it does, all evidence will point in its direction.

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  13. A good reason to drop any bad habits you have, if you want to avoid dragging the other person down with you. You should instead have good habits and the partner willl follow.

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  14. “Globulization”? Who wrote this? The voice of this article doesn’t sound like Roiss]y’s.

    Solid, though recycled, information anyways.

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  15. Reczek reports that gay, lesbian and straight couples all described the “bad influence” theme, while in straight partnerships, men were nearly always viewed as the “bad influence.” [ed: there go women again, abdicating all reason and accountability.]

    I recently watched a ted talk about lying.

    wawawa.ted.com/talks/pamela_meyer_how_to_spot_a_liar.html

    Somewhere in the beginnings of the video she says something along the lines:

    “Men lie more, and when women lie, it is to protect others”…

    There is hardly an escape from this misogynistic carpet bombing of the little intact areas that survived the tsunami and the earthquake of misogyny.

    Like


    • on October 25, 2011 at 10:30 am Rant Casey - BR

      I enjoy your blog, Sir.

      Like


    • and when women lie, it is to protect others…

      Jesus. The fact she wasn’t laughed off the stage shows how deeply the blue pill is embedded in most. Women frequently lie for sport alone.

      Is the video worth watching despite that gem?

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  16. on October 25, 2011 at 10:05 am Rant Casey - BR

    Witheld sex aint the problem. It only happens to the most painful betas.

    There is something more corrosive do the male soul: lazy sex.

    There is a plausible deniability, since she spreads her legs. Her general apathy in bed keeps him locked by sex but still unsatisfied. No blame-shifting is possible. Its a “dont ask for more” situation.

    The argument of “sexual abstinence” for leaving the relationship is stole from him this way. And if the tries to, then he is the one to blame for having cruel expectations, and being frivolous and demanding. She, on the other hand, will claim she is “giving what he wants” (sex) and thus, able to make her own demands in a righteous fashion.

    His sense of unfulfillment and desire to flee will be stronger than ever, but no possible socially acepted excuses are available to him. For a long time, he won’t even realize why exactly he feels so unsatisfied, and will lay the blame on himself.

    Anger will become frequent, and he will feel (and look) unreasonable for resenting his life. Over time, many will start to skip the uninteresting sex for beer and hobbies, and it will be the wife the one who complains about the assexual relationship as if she was doing her best.

    By this time, he already knows better than sugesting her that sexual routine is boring – he tried to hint that before, and she made a big drama about it.

    He will either cheat or become an alcoholic.

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  17. I like Modern Family. that shit is funny.

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  18. I find that if you reread all of Roissyj’s game posts every 6 months it helps prevent you from beta sliding too much while in a ltr.

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  19. Regarding:

    “Women, for their part, don’t attempt to change their partners’ bad habits for a different reason: they don’t have a clue how to articulate what is wrong with
    their beta boyfriends and hubbies.”

    Personally, I do not attempt to change my husband habits because he will not allow me to nag him, so I know better than talk and talk and talk.

    As an example: I wish he ate more fruit and vegetables; what I do: serve him a small bowl of fresh fruit every morning… for years he would not finish it, now he does as his doctor told him he nedded to.

    Some women care about their husbands and are not completely stupid.

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  20. Regarding:

    Women, for their part, don’t attempt to change their partners’ bad habits for a different reason: they don’t have a clue how to articulate what is wrong with
    their beta boyfriends and hubbies.

    I do not attempt to change my husbands habits because he will not let me nag him, so I know better than talk and talk and talk.

    As an example: I would like him to eat more fruit and vegetables. What I do: every morning I serve him a small bowl of fresh fruit. For years he would usually not finish his fruit. Now he does as his doctor told him he needs to.

    You see, some women care about their husbands, as they are not stupid.

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  21. I have something I’d like to take to you guys…..

    My husband IMO is a natural alpha (rugby in college before knee injury and later dropped out, funny, 6’5, green eyes, dark blonde hair, easy smile, ridiculously literate and smart, energetic, 27 years old) who I was fortunate to have fall in love with me. Now, as male market value stays about the same, and mine frankly you could say is starting to decline, I really do realize my good fortune.

    And—here’s the scary part for a chick especially his wife of 5+ years—I feel that _if he knew game, wanted to take it to heart and/or applied it as a practice, he would honestly corner the market_. Do you realize what a horrible feeling that is, haha! But really!… Also, thank the gods he has debts and generates relatively little income; that helps me (just being honest, here!). He feels one man and one woman is how it ought to be.

    My data: I just turned 30 years old (but I’ve been eavesdropping on PUA conversations for 5 or more years so it’s not just the number talking, I enjoy the perspectives. Just FYI 🙂 ). I eat well, hair is still full, haven’t over-tanned, naturally slim, as long as I’m over-sharing … 5’8, B cup, medium-wide hips (not narrow, yay!), decent waist (can’t remember my exact waist to hip ratio, but it wasn’t half bad last time I checked—I might have my waist be a little smaller to accentuate my hips, but it’s a minor quibble), good ass that I am probably going to have to work to keep up. If have a couple days where I neglect my beauty routine , then people would put me in my early 30s. Otherwise, in looks and demeanor late 20s. I have a couple upper teeth I need to realign with braces, which is frustrating and most likely a detractor from prettiness. Enjoy working out, but have not been as dedicated as I could be, and plan to be. Currently 9 months pregnant with no stretch marks, not sure how I lucked out there, but woohoooo. My niece blurted out, wow, you look gorgeous! out of the blue the last time I saw her. So I know I have some pull there.

    Anyway, here’s the thing. ——If I am going to be faithful as I have been, I feel as if I would like to live out tips, behaviors that help him keep that commitment fountain turned on and running as well. 🙂 ——- Yes yes, gloat if you want, it _can_ be scary when the other person seems to have widening options while yours are seeming to narrow. So you guys that worry about age, keep your chin up.

    I think I actually know the answer if you really put me on the spot. I’ve learned some things. It’s like … a softening. Lately when he wants to take the lead on something, I roll with it; I express when I’m feeling vulnerable/want him to pay attention to me; I’ve added more fun stuff to my beauty routine and clothing (that’s generally been easy for me) that makes me feel better and more well-kept and put together, like soft textures, buying only my best colors, etc. More attention to keeping up face and hair, grooming for smoothness… But the analytical side of my mind is running ahead of me, and I don’t want to miss something obvious.

    What would you advise in my case?Thanks!

    Like


    • You could be my wife from the description. She frets about being 32, going on 33 and still looks in her 20s. She is smoking hot. Morning head, good meals, kind words, good friendship, and evening head all keep me fathful. The fact is, I just don’t have the jam to sleep around. I get sex 2-3 times a day. Most men half my age can’t hang with that much sex. My balls stay empty. Its not a 100% guarantee, but it makes me evaluate carefully what I’d lose if caught cheating and 99.999% of the time, I’d be left with far less. I call my wife precious and mean it. I love to come home to her and spend as much time as I can with her.

      Like


      • Sounds like the good life.

        There are many versions of the good life, but that version you described has got to compete well with just about any of them.

        Like


    • I’m not married and I don’t intend to be, AND I can’t really see myself getting married, but you seem to be doing everything that you can do right. You have 3 years on him, which is a huge detriment, but there is nothing you can do about that. Just like Tyrone said, keep him happy with sex, cooking, looking as good as possible, and acting feminine and you’ll be doing everything in your power right. Also, having a kid helps… it’s been shown to lower a man’s testosterone levels, which will lower the chances that he’ll stray.

      Like


  22. I have something I’d like to take to you guys…..

    My husband IMO is a natural alpha (rugby in college before knee injury and later dropped out, wicked sense of humor, 6’5, green eyes, dark blonde hair, easy smile, ridiculously literate and smart, energetic, 27 years old) who I was fortunate to have fall in love with me. Now, as male market value stays about the same, and mine frankly you could say is starting to decline, I really do realize my good fortune.

    And—here’s the scary part for a chick especially his wife of 5+ years—I feel that _if he knew game, wanted to take it to heart and/or applied it as a practice, he would honestly corner the market_. Do you realize what a horrible feeling that is, haha! But really!… Also, thank the gods he has debts and generates relatively little income; that helps me (just being honest, here!). He feels one man and one woman is how it ought to be.

    My data: I just turned 30 years old (but I’ve been eavesdropping on PUA conversations for 5 or more years so it’s not just the number talking, I enjoy the perspectives. Just FYI 🙂 ). I eat well, hair is still full, haven’t over-tanned, naturally slim, as long as I’m over-sharing … 5’8, B cup, medium-wide hips (not narrow, yay!), decent waist (can’t remember my exact waist to hip ratio, but it wasn’t half bad last time I checked—I might have my waist be a little smaller to accentuate my hips, but it’s a minor quibble), good ass that I am probably going to have to work to keep up. If have a couple days where I neglect my beauty routine , then people would put me in my early 30s. Otherwise, in looks and demeanor late 20s. I have a couple upper teeth I need to realign with braces, which is frustrating and most likely a detractor from prettiness. Enjoy working out, but have not been as dedicated as I could be, and plan to be. Currently 9 months pregnant with no stretch marks, not sure how I lucked out there, but woohoooo. My niece blurted out, wow, you look gorgeous! out of the blue the last time I saw her. So I know I have some pull there.

    Anyway, here’s the thing. ——If I am going to be faithful as I have been, I feel as if I would like to live out tips, behaviors that help him keep that commitment fountain turned on and running as well. 🙂 ——- Yes yes, gloat if you want, it _can_ be scary when the other person seems to have widening options while yours are seeming to narrow. So you guys that worry about age, keep your chin up.

    I think I actually know the answer if you really put me on the spot. I’ve learned some things. It’s like … a softening. Lately when he wants to take the lead on something, I roll with it; I express when I’m feeling vulnerable/want him to pay attention to me; I’ve added more fun stuff to my beauty routine and clothing (that’s generally been easy for me) that makes me feel better and more well-kept and put together, like soft textures, buying only my best colors, etc. More attention to keeping up face and hair, grooming for smoothness… But the analytical side of my mind is running ahead of me, and I don’t want to miss something obvious.

    What would you advise in my case?Thanks!

    Like


    • Relax, the simple fact that you’re older means that he’s a higher beta at best.

      He may have the body and the intelligence of an alpha, but alpha means having options with women (mainly through game) and acting on them. Alpha knocks women up, beta takes care of the kids.

      Higher beta/Lower alpha is the perfect catch for LTR. Don’t blow it, because your fascination with PUAs means that you’re nurturing the idea of slutting it up.

      Keep being feminine and supportive. Don’t cheat. Don’t try to make him jealous (it works on you but it doesn’t work on guys), and you’re gonna be fine.

      Like


      • I understand your POV; what’s kinda interesting to me is that there are dozens of interpretations of Alpha that I’ve come across simply from this one site:

        a) Alpha is makin’ lotsa money go go go, Patrick Bateman wannabes are ok by us b) no true Alpha would be Bernankedified and subsume his life to the money-changers c) Alphas don’t give their heart, or only an iota of it d) Alphas give their heart intelligently… or they give their heart but may not necessarily inform their woman of that fact 😉

        I do want a man who is giving something of his heart. If you haven’t ever been in love and completely stupid for another person, then you’re missing out on something huge in the human condition, IMO. (in time, the goal of course is to develop smarts while remaining in love….. very challenging I feel…. or, you could say it’s all only biological lust, I’m ok with that interpretation too, and then you experiment with keeping the bio drives/lusts nourished…)

        If you haven’t ever gotten your heart broken into a million pieces, at least once, just once!—-you probably won’t have as much depth as someone who has. This goes for men and women. Some things _sound_ like cliche, yet they remain unassailable.

        …ok, Femme/supportive, check (for me it’s remembering to be a bit more supportive). No cheat, check (I think much like a guy, yet am reserved and get shy/embarrassed in line with my girlieness; it’s actually a pretty good combo so I should maybe stop complaining). No jealousy plays, I will have to control my trigger finger there, but I definitely believe you on that one.

        I’ve always felt I think like a guy, and although I love love love just sitting around playing with and caring for my nieces and nephews as much as I enjoy reading the Poetic Eddas or sculpting, I honestly can’t imagine caring _only_ about family and kid life, people like that are so fvcking boring, ugh…. so yes my purely feminine side sometimes needs watering and this is helpful.

        thank you.

        Like


    • on October 25, 2011 at 2:02 pm John Norman Howard

      Breast implants.

      Like


    • i’d advise you to make your trolling a bit more believable.

      you’re welcome.

      Like


    • My advice, as a bit older woman in your shoes (35 and married an alpha), take care of him better than anyone out there is able to. Cook for him, keep a good house, find out the little things he likes and do them (and be happy in doing them). If he likes a sandwich and a beer during the game (or whatever) bring them to him just because. Be there for him if he needs you and don’t push if he doesn’t. Let him be, don’t nag, give him some space when he needs it. At five years of marriage you are probably starting to figure out when all of this stuff is appropriate. It only gets easier if you pay attention. Also, you’re not going to be able to care for him as you might like for a while after the baby comes. Be patient with yourself as it does not take too long for the time to come back. Take good care of his children, but do not allow them to come between you and your man. The best way I have heard this described is like this:

      A man a woman marry and are holding hands forming a circle. When the children arrive some let the children join in holding hands in the circle. But when the children move away the circle is broken. Instead of allowing the circle to be broken, the man and women should never break the circle but put the children in the middle. When they move away, the circle remains complete.

      And obviously all the body/looks stuff you’re already doing.

      Congratulations on your little one! Enjoy it!

      Like


      • Good advice. A woman might do all this naturally if her husband is alpha enough and if she’s feminine enough.

        But hello2heaven sounds less feminine (or submissive) than you, and her husband sounds a little bit more beta.

        Assuming she’s not a troll, I think her spontaneous reaction would be something like “tssk, who the hell my husband thinks he is, I’m not doing any of that crap”.
        Simply because she knows deep inside, that her husband is indeed not valuable enough to deserve all that.

        Like


      • I’m culpable of being a spoiled brat at times, and overestimating my own value, forgetting that while intelligence and conversation is truly good in the long run, the softer sides of me need to come out, in some ways like they did when I was a teenager… omg I was such a romantic sitting in my room with music, or dissecting crushes with my girlfriends, in love with love. My goal is to work part time by end of 2012 (and life as we know it har har), because of baby, get more into making an awesome home, and because I really do feel workplace environments get us women off track.

        Like


      • Good advice. A nicer version of my own.

        Like


      • Thanks, but I cannot BELIEVE I forgot to add the importance of good sex. Completely and utterly important and essential.

        Like


      • can never be under-stated I think. thx.

        Like


      • feel free to be harsh. I can take it, …and if I can’t I suppose I will cry like I usually do…

        cuz yeah… out of the few things that I’ll turn on the tv watch… ok I cried over Barney feeling love (or was that indigestion?) the other day on “How I Met Your Mother”. This type of thing is standard for me, husband and fam are used to it… but it’s funny how it continually takes other people by surprise.

        Like


      • Thank you Stingray! I’m very excited to be a mom, and to create something that is part of my husband and I is a concept I still can’t get over, it’s awesome.

        Funny you mention, because in recent months I started doing little things like cupcakes during baseball game watching, and surprising him by buying us all (including upcoming baby) these button-down team jerseys. I was surprised that it was fun for me too. Guess I have creativity that doesn’t all have to be channeled into _ahem_ super-serious pursuits. I love party planning and I love getting our new house staged just right with candles, decor,… even though we are in the country, I passionately hate hokey cheesy old lady country knicknacks like farm animals, and I’ve learned my husband does too, yay!

        I love love love that husband/wife/child metaphor, am taking it to heart. Thanks again.

        Like


  23. on October 25, 2011 at 2:05 pm John Norman Howard

    Generates little income… and is 27 married to a 30 year old? Meh.

    Toots, if that’s a “natural alpha” then I’m the Emperor Of The North Pole.

    Like


    • > if that’s a “natural alpha”

      maybe it’s not.

      maybe it is!

      all I know is he’s someone who dumped one girlfriend in particular and then later one wife (they got married real young and she shortly got…. faaaaaat, and lazy, and disrespectful and started thinking she was big susie-homemaker boss in control of his life and kids) only to have them _both_ slavishly ignore his truly callous treatment of them, and commence stalking him.

      And I don’t mean a little light “I’m-a-bit-bored” type stalking that tapers off with a new guy. I mean like _true_ old-fashioned female stalking “I will be here waiting for you forever, please come home to me” and then actually living out these promises for literal _years_… there were no new guys for them. Each lady driving hours to visit him where he lived, asking him out for drinks when they could, asking what they did wrong and what they could do different for a second chance… he dated a stripper with a big rack somewhere in the meanwhile, please note he had less money at the time than he does now, in fact, I’m not sure he ever stuck any money in her panties….. this one pursued him, got herself nice and drunk and threw herself at him buck-naked (I have seen the handwritten girl letters to confirm these things), he soon got concerned about diseases but thought she was amusing for a little while… the whole point and pattern being, he kept buzzing them all away as if shooing away some flies that were annoying him a little. No formal game training/honing, he doesn’t even think he has lady-charm… just instinct and not giving a fvck.

      Can you say the same? 🙂 maybe you can! are you passing along your genes with healthy women of good stock? 🙂 maybe you are!

      like I referenced in a post above, there are different interpretations of Alpha. and FYI, I know how life is: “maybe he’ll dump you!” Perhaps he will! If I get fat and/or ridiculous. Or for some other reason! That’s kinda why I’m here asking things.

      that’s the only thing that gets a little tedious about this place, is the snark levels on some of the posts. I mean, hey, I’m always willing to consider that I’m off-base. At the same time, there is a diff between a) eviscerating someone’s bullshit and b) snark/bitchiness; it’s a subtle thing you can pick up on.

      Hey ya know I’m a chick, there’s gonna be bitchiness—-but what is these other people’s excuse?! 🙂

      I allow for the chance I’m being over-harsh, and perhaps projecting other comments I’ve seen here onto yours, but I just had to vent about that.

      Like


  24. Just wondering why in all stats the man gains more yet we are obsessing about the woman getting out of shape…

    [Heartiste: Because it’s different for men.]

    Like


  25. Pair-bonding isn’t something dreamed up in 1852 by Queen Victoria. Humans have formed long-term relationships ever since we mastered the control of fire and began to hunt. Women could barter pussy and housekeeping for meat and protection.

    The laws and feminist insanity have fucked with the bond between men and women but that bond still exists. Trying to deny it is as silly as women trying to deny they’re attracted to alpha men. Living the life of a perpetual pussy-hound leaves one in the same position as a woman who’s been riding the carousel. You may get an extra decade, but the end state is very similar.

    So instead of giving up on marriage, a better approach is to make it work for men again. Make it clear to your wife — well before you tie the knot — that you expect her to keep in shape, do certain things. If she cops a lot of “I’m my own person” attitude, then bail out and let her know why.

    Athol Kay’s blog shows how game can work within marriage, and I can attest that it has been useful in mine. (And I admit I was skeptical.)

    Like


    • on October 25, 2011 at 6:14 pm John Norman Howard

      The trouble with your precept is this:

      Things that a woman gets made “clear to her”, and which she eagerly agrees to, pre-marriage, have a tendency to get forgotten/ignored after the ring is secured.

      The best a man can hope for is that said duration between the “Absolutely, darling!” and the “Whatever, chump!” spans at least a decade or two.

      Like


    • Extra decade? Try two.
      A single cougar starts to seriously beg for sex at 45.
      A 65 year old man in decent shape can easily game mid-late 30s (but he will have to hide or lie about his age, no need to be stupid). With status or money, he doesn’t even need to stay in shape.

      Above 65 is a useless age anyway. If i live that long, i’m gonna switch into King A mode. Drowning myself in old books and stuff.

      Like


  26. Interesting Change in Dynamics
    “For all those men who say, “…why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”.

    Here’s an update for you — Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage.

    [Heartiste: Cite.]

    Why?

    [If your number isn’t just pulled out of your ass, i’d say the reason is sour grapes and lack of acceptable options.]

    Because women realize its not worth buying an entire Pig, just to get a little sausage.”

    [That is the lamest rewording of an old saying I have ever read. Talk about try hard.]

    http://forum.esnation.com/showthread.php?t=105866

    [ps: referring to yourself is not a cite.]

    Like


  27. Haha, I’m on your side. That quote was on a graphic I’m seeing some (ugly) women friends post up on their facebook. Since I didn’t want to post a link to the facebook page (though I can if you’re interested) I googled that quote and the forum link is the first thing that came up. I suspect you’ll start seeing it too if you have a facebook. Its NOT a cite referring to myself. It is probably a fact pulled out of a feminsit slut’s ass, but that slutty feminist is not me. (Though I wouldn’t mind being the slutty category seeing as how I am a man). I just thought it was a funny quote, chock full of the hamster spinning and sour grapes stuff you’re always writing about. And if its true, and thats a BIG IF, then it would be an interesting change in dynamics. Pulled out my ass? Are you kidding me, there was a reason I put quotation marks around the quote, as to indicate it wasn’t attributable to me.
    Sheesh,
    Of all the questions I’ve asked and advice I’ve sought from you both by posting here and e-mailing you, who would have thought the only thing you’d respond to would be some bullshit I got off of facebook?
    O well, carry on the good work Heartiste.

    [Heartiste: woops, carry on then.]

    Like


  28. I am in an LTR and love these articles. The bottom line is even if you are in an LTR it is important to rarely act like it. Stay in shape. Continue to game her, although go easy on her when she has fallen in love.

    Like


    • nice. to me that perspective is smart… and more importantly… generous.

      see, first ya gotta be brave to be generous.

      men, know you have nothing to lose,…… ever. and then live that way. after awhile drops the need to micro-calculate life. own yourself, your blunders and wrongspokeness, and successes. conduct your grand experiments.

      embody this and you’ll see the chance to win all.

      Like


  29. I’m in my early twenties, young, in a LTR and my gf has been asking me about my views on marriage

    I told her that I view it as unnecessary and pointless paper, especially if the two people love and trust one another.

    She didn’t know what to say at first and then came up with this: “It’s a beautiful tradition, and if you truly love the other person wouldn’t you want to partake in it, especially since its inherently good tradition?”

    Basically, how do I diffuse her arguments? Just to make myself clear she is not pressuring me to marry her now, but she just wants me to accept the concept of marriage

    Like


  30. Just came across this, I guess its no suprise that the “committee of cog-molding industrialists” likely created the ‘ball-chopping feminists”

    Feminism Was Created To Destabilize Society: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN05DHO9bJw

    Like


  31. Do you really want a self-loathing wife obsessed with making sure her body doesn’t change? I have worked like hell to take off an extra 20 lbs. that has stubbornly refused to budge following the birth of my twins four years ago. I do cardio five times a week, lift weights with a trainer twice a week, eat 1300-1500 calories of low-carb, high-protein food per day, and keep detailed food journals—all to little avail. (Yes, I cook extremely healthy meals at home, only to have my husband binge on soda, take-out, and other junk when he’s at the office. He’s FINALLY started a regimen of his own, though, but long after I did.) I’ve recently seen a doctor who is convinced that medication I’m on is suppressing my metabolism, so I’m trying to change that.

    Having internalized the values espoused by people like you, however, I’m almost suicidally depressed about how I look. My husband has repeatedly told me that I’m beautiful, that my concerns are shallow and superficial, and that he would far rather have me 20 lbs. overweight but happy and self-accepting than killing myself to achieve some difficult-to-attain ideal. Undoubtedly, you’d deride him as a beta (although he’s five years older, holds degrees from two elite universities, and makes very good money, which I assume has some effect on your calculus), but I thank God that he is. Believe me, love like THAT makes me want to please him. It seems like being married to an alpha would ensure a lifetime of perpetual insecurity. I can’t answer for all women, but I come equipped with enough of that to last me an eternity.

    [Heartiste: Life is a bitch. Anyhow, a little insecurity is good for the soul. It builds character. You’ll have plenty of time to be comfortable after you die.]

    Like