Are The Cads Outbanging The Dads?

The dude who runs the Evo and Proud blog has an interesting post about earlier male maturation rates indicating that females may be favoring cads over dads as mates.

There is thus plenty of genetic variation for selection to act on. No need to wait for new mutations. But why would there be natural selection for earlier male puberty?

One reason is that early puberty is genetically linked to other sexual characteristics. In particular, a class of X-linked androgen receptor alleles is linked in males to aggression, impulsivity, sexual compulsivity, and lifetime number of sex partners and in females to paternal divorce, father absence, and early menarche (Comings et al., 2002). It is likely that these alleles also influence male pubertal timing, but research on this point is lacking—apparently because it is difficult to find a marker for pubertal maturation among boys that is as salient as age at menarche among girls (Ge et al., 2007). Early male puberty thus seems to be part of a “package,” or more precisely a reproductive strategy, that affects the way men go about finding a mate. Natural selection may favor one strategy or another, depending on the current cultural environment.

Is natural selection now favoring the “cads” over the “dads”? That might be what’s happening. As sexual relationships become less stable and shorter-term, women will ignore men who are oriented towards stable, long-term relationships.

I am on record as hypothesizing that two major sexual market shifts are pushing boys to earlier puberty: 1. Diversity and 2. Unrestrained female hypergamy.

Diversity of different groups of boys who mature at different rates would tend to favor the selection of boys with alleles for earlier maturity rates, given a sexual market that benefits sexually aggressive cads. Or, late-maturing k-selected boys will conform to the norm for r-selected early-maturing boys instead of the other way around, given a lack of cultural or circumstantial constraints on female sexual choice.

Female hypergamy — women’s desire to mate with the highest status men they can get, given what their looks and willingness to put out can afford them — is the complementary force that pushes evolution to select for earlier maturing, and thus more caddish, boys.

If earlier puberty among boys is real, no matter the cause, and is indicative of women favoring cads over dad, then core philosophical underpinnings and cultural analysis of the dating market found at Le Chateau Heartiste are validated in some measure.

You’ll notice I titled this post “Are the cads outbanging the dads?” That was deliberate, because there remain questions about whether cads are actually breeding more or less than dads. Outbanging is different than outbreeding. A woman could casually ignore potential beta dads throughout her teens and 20s (her prime years) for a sterile ride on the cock carousel with alpha males, only to settle down later with a beta male and bear him 1.8 children. Cheap and easy contraceptives thwart the natural procreation advantage that alpha males would normally have over beta males in the state of nature, so it is very possible that alpha males could be winning the Banging Sweepstakes while losing the Breeding Sweepstakes.

Evidence that cad outbanging and supercharged female hypergamy is occurring resides in the later age of first marriage rates, and the lower overall marriage rate, as well as the higher STD rates among women.

And there is evidence for cad outbreeding as well. Serial monogamy — which is a form of soft polygyny — is on the rise, and men who have had more than one partner have more children than men married to one woman.

On the other side of the debate are the GSS (General Social Survey) gurus who marshal self-reported evidence that dads are winning the breeding wars over cads.

I remain skeptical of the GSS data, but give it its due. My contention has never been that cads are having more children, but rather that cads are having more premarital sex than dads with higher quality (read: better looking) women when those women are in their sexual primes. This, not the discrepancy in fertility rates between alpha and beta males, is the contraceptively-aided shock wave that is roiling the sexual market and upending organic rules thousands, perhaps millions, of years old.

A society of both cad ascendence and civilization is unsustainable and incompatible. One or the other will go, and the pendulum with either swing back to dads or civilization will regress to accommodate the rise of women choosing cads. All social and economic indicators (particularly the debt overhang), and my personal experience in the bowels of the dating market, lead me to be pessimistic about a happy resolution to this building tension. Hopefully, I’m wrong, but in the meantime I’ll do what is necessary to secure my pleasure.


  1. on December 26, 2012 at 11:38 am retardedinternetuser



  2. No “pool side” sign off? Wow, this must be pretty bad then.


  3. The dating game between heteros in a post-socialistic, command economy with a marxian legal framework is heading the way of the dodo. Poor men will their right-hands, porn n hoodrats. Middle-class men with have escorts and robots. The upperclass will have surrogates and airtight legal contracts. There will be more than a few Empress Dowagers like Paris Hilton and scam artists like McCartney for the tabloids, but PUA as we know it ain’t going to be the social norm.


    • I like the class system you broke down.

      While I think there is a selection for earlier puberty, I would argue that males are actually becoming much more feminine because of estrogen level in our water and food. This is demonstrable.

      Simple anecdotal evidence is pretty easy to confirm, like any male in this generation can compare to our parents our esp. our grandparents generation. Life was tougher back then, and men were more often to ‘be men’.


      • So is it estrogen in the food and water or the fact that life was tougher and men were more often told to be men? Both are argued for in the same post.


      • Both points are for the same direction: men were more ‘manly’ back then both because of society, and the lack of estrogen in food/water.

        Now we lack the society telling us its okay to be a man, and further poisoned literally into lesser men.


      • I’d go with more nurture than nature. While estrogen in the water might account for some of it, the vast majority of men have been feminized by society. We have blue Easy Bake ovens now not because of estrogen but because some little feminazi-in-training decided we need to. Given the choice, with no input from Billy’s aunt Robert, boys will still play with cars and girls will still play with dolls.

        If it were 50/50 for these two things, I would expect less caddish behavior. Take away the social media telling them skinny jeans on men are sexxxy and mommy to wrap them in bubble wrap, drop a bunch of young adults on an island with the basics to survive and they’d find a way. And the ones who don’t, well, that’s culling the herd

        We raised our son to be a man. He has a job, good credit, no police record, no illegitimate children, and no illusions that we wanted him to be anything other than a man. He has a skill set (several, actually), can change a flat without calling AAA, make a campfire, is handy with a knife and isn’t afraid of things of which he has no need to be afraid.

        Quite a few of his friends are of the same mindset, so good, manly men and good parents are out there. I know most of their girlfriends, and other than the one who moved this way when she was already an adult, I can’t say any of them are overtly sexual or trampy or stupid. Birds of a feather and all…

        I expect when he does have children, they will not be raised much differently than he was.

        I could be wrong; all I have is anecdotal evidence, but if they’re all I have to surround myself with, that’s not so terrible.


  4. It’s perfect timing for Game/PUA to arrive – betas still have chance…
    Question is if beta+game=alpha?


    • I am not necessarily opposed to beta+game as a posture but it certainly doesn’t make for alpha. Alpha is really a state of being in my mind. One can get there if one is not, but I do also hold to a bell curve distribution. Not everyone can be alpha. I think the distribution is necessary for order. At very least, if everyone was alpha, some new order would be established.

      Beta+game does allow for Joe Average to perhaps live up to his potential by succeeding, not settling.


      • Not sure – few years ago I was typical AFC, now I am as good as natural plus I understand what I am doing. It looks like this state of mind come itself after banging few chicks.

        You might want to ask what is the difference between natural alpha and beta with internalized game? They act the same, they look the same and they both pull pussy.


      • You might want to ask what is the difference between natural alpha and beta with internalized game? They act the same, they look the same and they both pull pussy.

        The natural alpha still has the potential to turn into an AFC if he falls in wuv with “that one special girl”. Beta ex-AFCs who’ve trained themselves will be less likely to.


      • That just got me thinking that there is no such thing as alpha/beta. At least not in general sense. It’s just pickup skills or social value.

        Few bulletpoints:
        – I have seen top executives/company owners behaving like total chumps and having ugly and crazy girlfriends
        – I have seen naturals with 100+ lays. They can do with chicks in bars, yet they are scared of approaching on street and look at me as some god when I number close
        – I have seen 30+ years old virgins, yet they can pull pussy left and right after going PUA
        – different cultures = different game. Try to pull any asian with super-alpha game…
        – from my observations – in group of alpha there is always one the most alpha. Yet, knowing few body language tricks I can easily become center of attention and be the most alpha
        – I have seen millionaires’ sons without any game (one is even frequently beating girls) – yet chicks come to them all the time
        – I was introverted beta AFC, I am doing as good as naturals now after few years
        – I have seen old guys (executives,etc,) with 25-yrs old hot wife. Yet they are scarred as shit she will leave them

        Thus it makes no sense – there is no such thing like general alpha.
        Some guys can be good with chicks in some environment, but this is learnable skills.

        Anyway, Happy New Year and lays with 10hb!


      • In some ways I think an AFC who learns and masters game would do better than an alpha in the long run. AFC knows what brings about dry spells and how to avoid them. Some naturals run into it when oneitis hits them.


      • AFC means?


      • I here that Tatereal. The guys that are constantly successful in life don’t cope that well when they run into failure. Same thing with my natural friend when he doesn’t bag a girl; he doesn’t understand why or what he could do next time.

        He still moves on and slays another girl though.


      • For me, the matter of nature versus nurture in creating alphas and betas is one of great curiosity. Five years ago, I couldn’t have been more beta. Today, I reek of alpha.

        Was an alpha waking to discover himself or is it possible for anything to be learned?


      • on December 26, 2012 at 7:10 pm Rihanna Deserved It

        Game > Constant self-improvement > Increased social status > Ability to fake confidence > Real confidence > Higher social status > Success > Options with women > Alpha mentality


    • Maven6 wrote:

      Question is if beta+game=alpha?

      Beta + Game ≠ Alpha

      Beta + Study + Technique + Imitation = Alpha appearance

      Game is a program of mimicry designed to yield a single side-effect of alphatude: the ability to effortlessly attract high-quality women.

      This idea is mocked in the PUA/game community as a rogue “Leaders of Men™” theory. It is a theoretical framework, yes, but it is larger and thereby encompasses the narrow PUA ambit. Joke’s on them.

      There is little consistency among those who throw the terms “game” and “alpha” around, so they speak of “married-men game” and “game in the boardroom,” and an entire internecine cottage-industry has developed around the argument of how words are officially and unofficially defined. Perhaps 3/4 of the internal disputation among gamesters is semantic.

      There is no purpose to enforcing a uniform code of definition. The marketplace of ideas decides what will be called what. For example, a “liberal” used to denote a partisan of liberty, but today more regularly describes a statist and leftist totalitarian. There are many such evolving imprecisions (see “amused” vs. “bemused,” for example), until critical mass is reached, and the popular connotation becomes the official denotation. Perhaps the most pertinent hijacking of meaning is found in the slow commandeering of words like “queer” and “gay” for revolutionary cultural purposes, and the biggest one of all: “sex” itself.

      Without splitting hairs over definitions, the problem with using the sexual habits of “alpha” as a synecdoche is that the narrow constructionists begin to find contradictions where there are none. They come to regard the greatest exemplars of alpha — such as generals, presidents, and men widely held in esteem — but who do not take full advantage of the sexual revolution, as “beta” in their souls.

      Then they try to retrofit the narrow definition into the all-encompassing one, producing distortion. It is the tail wagging the dog. The progression goes like this:

      • Perceptive beta notices the characteristics of the man who effortlessly gets women.

      • Horny beta defines as “alpha” the men who display those characteristics as strictly applied to sexual context — a definition produced negatively against his own personal deficiencies.

      • Rising, focused beta excludes all other characteristics as irrelevant.

      • Theorizing, quantifying beta extrapolates those narrowly-observed characteristics over non-sexual areas of dominance (or else defines all matters as controlled by sexuality).

      • Caddishness becomes synonymous with “alpha” to the alpha-aspirant and beta-anchored soul.

      The reverse-engineering process is complete. First they take a philanderer like Philander Rodman, make him the example against which alphaness is defined, and then ask What Would Alpha Do to determine whether leadership itself is consistent with the imagined sexual theory.

      The solution is to understand the self as more than merely the product of his relationship with the opposite sex — which is an essentially feminine and feminist understanding of life! The men who are not controlled by the accumulation of vaginal friction but rather consider it a sublime and even superlative side-effect of his broader achievements — these men constitute a better definition of “alpha” than those who externally mimic their behavior while condemning the necessary internal qualities as superfluous to their crude little personal mission.

      Do we judge Lincoln by his achievements and actual deeds, or do we judge him as portrayed impeccably by Daniel Day-Lewis?

      Pick-Up Scientists : Alpha Artistry :: Moviemakers : Historical Accomplishment



      • Hey, matthew, would you mind giving me some advice on this moral/metaphysical question i’ve got? my email address is [email protected]

        I would really appreciate it.


      • “The solution is to understand the self as more than merely the product of his relationship with the opposite sex — which is an essentially feminine and feminist understanding of life! The men who are not controlled by the accumulation of vaginal friction but rather consider it a sublime and even superlative side-effect of his broader achievements — these men constitute a better definition of “alpha” than those who externally mimic their behavior while condemning the necessary internal qualities as superfluous to their crude little personal mission.” — Matthew King

        Very true, Matt. However, while there is much worthy discussion of social and political questions on Chateau Heartiste, the primary reason for CH is, in crass terms:

        “Penis in Vagina, the younger and hotter the better; and here’s how to to accomplish this…”

        Now, the information presented in this blog may be used for more honorable purposes (i.e. how to be a man rather than a blubbering weenie, finding and winning a worthy young woman) and this is freely admitted by the hosts of CH.

        I agree with your premise, and there does exists a multitude of sources — websites, books, sermon audio, personal discussions with wiser men — dedicated to the full development of manhood in every sphere (and a healthy love-life would be a happy by-product of this). Just be aware of the basic premise of Chateau Heartiste.

        Loved the linked article on Taki’s Mag, by the way.


  5. “Cads and dads” has a catchy ring to it but alas it’s an asymmetric representation of the two types of men. After all, who would want to be a “dad” when they can be a “cad”?

    “Cad” evokes a mental image of an aggresssive, young, well-toned badass, while “dad” creates a mental image of a passive, pudgy herb. “Lovers and Fathers” is more even, though too polysyllabic.

    And chanelling commenter AB Dada, there is “Vultures and Eagles” to tip the connotations in favor of “dads,” with “Chickens” representing non-banging, non-breeding betas.


  6. This very much proves the point that why men reject marriage, not only marriage is on the decline but it is being destroyed through legalizing same-sex marriage, Now I am not a homophobe nor i want the Gay Guys/Gals to become all furious over this (If they are lurking here), The thing is that the incentives that brought men to a halt and in a commitment with women are nowadays mocked, laughed at, it’s like dads are seen as creeps and cads are seen as HOT & SEXY. Although i love being a dad but i know that being that HOT & SEXY guy is pretty much what every men desire, so if you shame men for being a responsible freak with feminist rhetoric than DADS WILL BREED CADS.

    The reason i say that nowadays Cads are in majority is because that the cultural shift has brought men to a crossroad where either you want to suck it up and take that old hag to an altar or you take the road to NOWHERE. So i say in this day and age it is the place of NOWHERE which is safe, so Dads Good luck being all beta because this might be your last chance to save a collapsing civilization but remember that Men are now evolving and they have evolved pretty fast.


  7. I too think the “cads” who are really just more animalistic people with little self-control are Currently out breeding the dads.

    I live in a conservative Jewish neighborhood where the norm is at least 3 kids and families with 5+ are not uncommon. They’re having plenty of kids but their overall numbers are still very small compared to the residents of the ghetto. Who just bang everything and anything and probably still don’t know how a condom works or just to cheap to spend their welfare money on them.

    With the impending economic depression and new ice age set to begin at any moment, k-selected peoples will see their numbers start to dwindle. And maybe some semblance of order and sanity will return.


  8. I suspect that the cads are far outbreeding the dads in the lower (darker) classes, while dads in the upper (whiter) classes are still outbreeding the cads. Well-off white girls know how to avoid getting pregnant while on the cock carousel and most well-off white guys know how to avoid pregnancy and marriage. Thus the primitive classes may be getting more primitive while the SWPL class becomes increasingly pussified.


    • Right. Without applying Charles Murray’s “Belmont-Fishtown” observations, any general or aggregated conclusion is distorted by the very rough-hewn statistics they employ.

      And Murray deliberately didn’t factor in race. He was speaking of the class and cultural differences among whites. Throw in the dystopic, self-annihilating behaviors of non-Asian minorities into your sundae, and a gallon of vanilla is mixed with a gallon of shit. Bon appétit.



    • Humans will split in two species:


  9. Many STDs are easier to transmit from men to women, than women to men. The skin of a penis is less permeable than the interior of a vagina, the skin of a penis is less likely to tear, and a guy can wash after sex, but no matter what a lot of semen stays behind.


    • Not true. The rugged, utilitarian vagina is more resistant to infection and damage than either the fragile penis or colon. Warshing your dick after sex is of little help either as spirochetes and viruses have already made their way into your lifestyle by then.

      I have some funny personal stories about “social diseases” that I should share with the mano-sphere sometime. Lotsa laffs.


      • Mmmm. “Rugged, utilitarian vagina…”

        This requires a comment from RappaccinisDaughter STAT! She, the white-trash poetess who blessed the world with delicate phrases like, “These things are rinse n’ re-use.”

        Wait. Is it just coincidence that we never see Uncle Elmer and the poisonous daughter in the same place at the same time? Someone check the avatar patterns. Is her “Uncle Elmer” a tribute to the one who touched her?



    • If you’re suggesting that the fact that women have higher rates of std’s than men is because of easier transmission from men to women than vice versa, methinks you’ve swallowed another pretty lie.

      Sixty years ago, men had materially higher rates of std’s than women. Have vaginas and penises changed since then?


      • nah its no lie. females are at higher risk for STDs.

        think about the biology of male-female penetrative sex and its pretty obvious why this is true.

        though hypergamy and the cad/dad dichotomy does also help explain the gender disparity in STD rates.


      • Then there’s the penile urethra, a rather inviting moist, warm hole for today’s penicillin-resistant ghonorheas.


      • Sixty years ago, maybe prostitutes outnumbered the johns?


      • “Sixty years ago, men had materially higher rates of std’s than women. Have vaginas and penises changed since then?”

        Women also slept around less. That’s changed; see also the inception and subsequent thriving of this blog. QED.


      • Assuming the “60 years ago” figure is correct.

        Sixty years ago [1952], before the pill, in a high school class of, say, 100 graduating seniors, you might have had [totally hypothetical] numbers which looked like:

        50 men total
        50 women total
        30 men who were still virgins
        20 men who had lost their virginity
        45 women who were still virgins
        5 women [SLUTS] who had lost their virginity

        I.e. you’d have something like 20 sexually active guys sharing maybe 5 sluts in the school.

        So the “neural network” of associations between sexually active guys and sexually active girls would have been very small and very intimate – probably even “topologically connected” – and if a single incidence of a communicable UTI had gotten into that one “topologically connected network”, then it might very well have infected all of the sexually active guys in the school.

        But fast forward to the 2000s/2010s, and your numbers might look like

        50 men total
        50 women total
        10 men who were still virgins
        40 men who had lost their virginity
        10 women who were still virgins
        40 women [FEMINAZI/HYPERGAMOUS] who had lost their virginity

        At this point there is a much greater likelihood that you have multiple “networks” of sexual activity – all existing independently of one another – and many dudes could now be getting laid in long-term serially-monogamous relationships, without the threat of other dudes’ spurious communicable UTIs entering the picture.

        Conversely, so many more women are sexually active now that their UTI rates are gonna skyrocket [relative to where they had been in the early 1950s].

        MORAL OF THE STORY: Feminism is great for horny young men, but horrible for young women.


      • BTW, I wanted to add – back in 2005, there was a minor broohaha when some Ohio State researchers claimed to have graphed the sexual relations “network” for an entire midwestern USA high school [known pseudonymously as “Jefferson High School”].

        They’ve still got a copy of the graph at Ohio State, and you can also find it at other sites by googling the structure of romantic and sexual relations at jefferson high school.

        Anyway, if you wanna minimize your risk of contracting a venereal disease, then stay the hell away from the sluts who form the big, heavy nodes on the graph.

        [Or, if you’re a chick, then stay the hell away from the “alphas” who have their own big, heavy nodes on the graph.]


      • What’s odd to me is how gender-balanced that graph is; the number of vees with one member of one sex and two of the other is almost the same, and there were 63 exclusive couples. There seem to be about the same number of blue and pink nodes.

        I guess things don’t really start to get the way CH describes until college?


      • Yeah, right. The women who lost their virginity were sluts. Oh, no, actually they were SLUTS. But not the guys. What is it with you guys and your double standard? I think you are all SLUTS. Or virigins.


    • It’s true for HIV.

      According to the CDC, women are twice more likely to get it during P inside V than men (10 on 10000 for women, 5 for men)

      And almost ten times more likely when it’s P inside butthole (50 on 10000 for women, 6.5 for men)


      • on December 26, 2012 at 4:13 pm Days of Broken Arrows

        I was just going to ask if HIV counted. I’d read it’s very difficult for a woman to infect a man with HIV.


      • Just look at porn whenever theres been an outbreak its always been a guy giving it to girls never vice versa..and the girls usually arent having sex everyday whereas the guys are.


  10. First it was holding hands at “art museums” now it’s descending into “bowels”. I am beginning to wonder about your mental stability. Perhaps it’s time to take a break form “blogging”.


  11. “A society of both cad ascendence and civilization is unsustainable and incompatible. ”

    Why? You have some proof of this?

    [Heartiste: Africa.]

    Other than among the super white trash and the blacks in the ghetto, where is the cad father? And I’m talking serious white trash here because even Honey Boo Boo’s mother is married to that child’s father.

    [Married on legal tender only. Have you noticed the infinite, listless, glazed look in his eyes?]

    In all my life, Ive met one 100% white person who had no relationship with their father. I have met 0 non-adopted Asians and South Asians who had no relationship with their father. I have met maybe 4 white people who had such distant relationships with their fathers that you could call their fathers deadbeats.

    [Fatherlessness isn’t solely a function of abandonment at the moment of conception. Degree matters.]

    Otherwise, when it comes to being a father, there is only beta if you are white or asian. I know guys who have slept with 100+ women who are 100% dedicated fathers and every bit as dedicated as a guy who has slept with 1 woman. Does anyone find this to be untrue?

    [No quarrel there. But the means are the message. Generally, fatherlessness will be found in greater proportion among 100+ players than among one woman loyal herbishe kops.]

    Whether alphas or betas are having more children, does anyone have any evidence that alphas are somehow less dedicated as fathers?

    [Regarding the raising of kids, quantity trumps quality.]

    Do you have low self esteem or something deep in your heart?

    [I have open eyes and a willingness to use them as satan intended.]

    Why would you imply that the rise of yourself is bringing down civilization?

    [Last I checked, I’m not abandoning any kids. Thank you, birth control!]

    You may not have or want children but this has nothing to do with the number of women you want to sleep with.

    [Chicks dig trait association.]


  12. O/T:

    A friend told me that he wanted to start D-bol to get bigger so he’d look more attractive to chicks. I think (hope) I’ve talked him out of it. He’s a really bad ectomorph with very little muscle mass and long, thin bones. Not the type who can easily put on muscle mass, even with weight training, hence his desire to use ‘roids.

    Then I thought of trannies. It’s legal for people to go woman —> guy with doctor approved hormones that work akin to anabolic steroids, but an ectomorph can’t get them to simply build up a bit? What a crock of sh*t.


    • Tell him to drop the roids and pattern himself after successful ectomorphs such as Don Knotts, who was rumored to be quite the ladie’s man.

      Success comes from building on one’s natural strengths rather than attempting to improve a weakness.


      • “Success comes from building on one’s natural strengths rather than attempting to improve a weakness.”

        This. It’s like a skinny little guy going “why can’t I go punch for punch with Mike Tyson and win? What if I punch every day and night?” You probably still won’t be able to go punch for punch with Mike Tyson…why not think outside the box and learn to evade?

        This is why teaching guys Game is important. You could show this guy Russell Brand or Mystery and he’ll go “well they’re famous and tall” and decide his situation is a special unique snowflake and impossible and go fuck his body up with steroids and shit trying to play the “looks = attraction” game and even if he achieves his ideal look down the road after a bunch of years of feeding his insecure inner-self he’s going to be just as shit as he is with girls now because he didn’t learn to base his confidence internally…then a few years later nature will take its course and his looks will start to fade with age and he’ll be worse than he is now because then he’ll have tasted his “ideal looks” and have to fight nature trying to keep them. Once his external attributes start to go, he’s doomed because his entire self-worth was based on them.

        It’s depressing and awful and I hope he listens to you.


      • Thanks. I stole the quote from management guru Peter Drucker and his essay “Managing Oneself”.

        Also from that tract : “It takes far more energy to improve from incompetence to mediocrity than to improve from first-rate performance to excellence”


      • Thanks, I stole the quote from management guru Peter Drucker and his essay “Managing Oneself”.

        Also from that tract : “It takes far more energy to improve from incompetence to mediocrity than to improve from first-rate performance to excellence”


      • Also a good quote. To relate it to pick-up: Hot girls don’t really care WHAT you’re interested in, good at, passionate about, or awesome at…just be interested in, good at, passionate about, or awesome at SOMETHING.

        That’s why you can talk about “uncool” shit with girls, like if you’re passionate about videogames, you can talk about that. Tyler from RSD talks about nutrition and shit with girls. I talk about psychology and social dynamics with them now and then. They care more that you have passions and goals etc. than what those passions and goals etc. actually ARE. Because really, most girls don’t have any fucking interests of their own lol

        It goes back to that rule of “I don’t do it because it’s cool, it’s cool because I do it.”

        So if you’re good at or passionate about something you don’t think would appeal to girls, it’s often more worth your time to really own that than it is to start doing shit you think will appeal to girls but that you have no real interest in.


      • There will always be someone better looking than you, there will always be someone with more money than you, there will always be someone with a more defined 6-pack than you, there will always be someone with a nicer car than you…and the really high-end girls are surrounded by these guys so that stuff starts to lose its value because everyone has it. Hell, even SHE has it if she’s rich or high-status or a celebrity etc.

        So what in your life is something that every other guy isn’t competing tooth & nail to be the best at, or even capable of being the best at? How do you stand out?

        A lot of super hot girls end up with “weird” guys (like super artsy dudes) who make you go “wtf? why is she with THAT guy??” And then you hang with that guy and you realize he’s got a really strong frame and is super passionate about whatever his shit is, while the other guys around her are just cookie-cutter guys all running the rat race to compare dick sizes with eachother hoping to get her attention.


      • on December 26, 2012 at 9:02 pm Lucky White Male


        I went through the list of last year’s Playboy Playmates – at least half of the 12 (that I could get info on) are dating either

        – celebrity men, or

        – pro athletes

        How do you explain this regarding your claim that Money Power Status do not matter?

        Do you think these guys know Game? Or do you think to GET WHERE THEY ARE IN LIFE – they already have a sizeable amount of Dark Triad traits which are the same as having game

        You and I have gone back and forth on this at Rollo’s, but I again do not see how your claim holds up in reality. Maybe the exception, not the rule



      • How do you explain guys with money, power, and fame who aren’t dating Playboy bunnies?

        If MPF make men attractive to hot women, why are there a lineup of good looking guys in Armani suits standing on Death Row all night then going home alone at every high-end nightclub every weekend?

        That’s like saying “a $10 bill can buy 1 of this item except sometimes it can’t.” It doesn’t make sense. Either that $10 bill is worth $10 or it’s not. If MPF alone creates these superhuman dark triad super ninjas, why are there guys with MPF who don’t have Playboy gfs? Or are you saying those don’t exist? That every man with MPF has a super hottie the instant they come into MPF? Are there no pro athletes who are single or dating mediocre women?

        Sure, there are guys who’s “dark triad” traits helped them get MPF and that’s great, their dark triad traits are what are attractive to women, not the external MPF itself (except to gold-diggers and even then that’s opportunity not attraction).

        The good part to having MPF is that that helps you get access to Playboy bunnies whereas Joe Average in Wisconsin probably isn’t going to be invited to Heff’s mansion anytime soon. But when you drop Bill Gates in the middle of the Playboy mansion along with any of the Naturals I know, the Naturals are getting poon while Gates holds up a wall.

        Go out a bunch, to high-end nightclubs, and watch how some MPF guys get pussy and some don’t. Then figure out what the commonalities and differences are between the groups. Then figure out which commonalities produce consistent results. You’ll end up back where I said: at internal confidence.


      • From bike racing:”Train your weaknesses, race your strengths.”


      • Here’s a simpler way of putting why your fears of these super ninjas is a waste of time:

        How many Playboy models did you talk to this week? Ballpark figure. Say even this month, like when they weren’t busy doing their centerfold photo-shoot? Zero?

        And how many super ninja alpha MPF rich Ferrari driving mansion owning dark triad badass 6-pack super players did you meet this week? Say this month even. Zero? Maybe one or two max?

        And how many times did you compete head to head with these super ninja alpha dark triad playboy billionaires, for the attention and subsequent fucking of the previously mentioned Playboy models you were both surrounded by? Ballpark figure? Say in this last month? Approximately zero times?

        …so what exactly is your concern? Seriously.


      • “…so what exactly is your concern? Seriously.”

        His concern is that he’s a fucking loser that wants to deny Game so that he can justify his patheticness.

        “MPS guys are the only ones that pull so I’m not going to try. Boo-hoo”. You and Wolfie65 should form a support group for one another.


      • on December 27, 2012 at 9:21 am anonymous does not forgive

        Both of you are right to a degree.

        MPF only gets you so far, otherwise Bill Gates and Warren Buffett would be banging Kate Upton or Emmy Rossum or some other young hottie.

        At the same time, these super hot celebrity types aren’t banging the unemployed drummer with game types either, the unemployed drummer may clean up with the strippers at the local club (fucking them after all the lonely betas buy air dances from them) but he isn’t getting the hottest of the hot.


      • on December 27, 2012 at 9:44 am Lucky White Male


        Please rest assured: I’m actually not scared or concerned about anybody – I’m trying to figure out the nuances.

        I think you and I are coming to some important distinctions here.

        The Manosphere needs to start being more exact and truthful – for the benefit of all men:

        1. The Unemployed X-Box Gamer who is an “Aloof Asshole” par excellence with Game cannot hold an 8 – 10 indefinitely. As the Hairy One said recently, “Game in the future for the hottest girls is going to mean you need 1) Game + 2) Something Else.

        In other words, you’re going to have to have some kind of other Value (read MPS) to bring to table beyond, I know how to neg you.

        She is going to want a guy who can provide resources at some point. This means some kind of MPS.

        2. You can have the best game in the world, but “ACCESS” is key.

        if you don’t have “ACCESS” to 9’s and 10’s, you cannot actually “game” them to begin with.

        As you say, MPF gets you “Access.” You must have physical access to 9s and 10s in order to game them, let alone sleep with them,

        As you know 9s and 10s operate in a limited social world compared to other girls – they feel like they should only be talking to certain people, under certain conditions.

        This goes for not just your Hollywood celebrity chick. But the girl in the “elite” of your local social scene.

        Point: Men need to be working on their VALUE, as much as, if not more, than Game.

        3. How do you accumulate substantial MPS and NOT have “Dark Triad” traits?

        Its a short step from here to there in many cases to Game, certainly with younger generation – who have all heard of Game to begin with, 11 years in now.

        It’s wishful thinking that the trial lawyer partner in the law firm in your nearest city is a pit bull in a courtroom, but a clueless doofus with chicks otherwise


      • Lucky White Male:

        I went through the list of last year’s Playboy Playmates – at least half of the 12 (that I could get info on) are dating either celebrity men or pro athletes.



        If MPF make men attractive to hot women, why are there a lineup of good looking guys in Armani suits standing on Death Row all night then going home alone at every high-end nightclub every weekend?

        Selective data vs. severely-construed anecdote + metaphor. Data wins.

        YaReally’s focus is narrow, limited, and temporary. He is good at telling you the best bait and tackle to produce bites, not how to reel them in to mount on a wall (or eat). Everything else is a big-fish tale.

        Lucky White Male searched a database of a very particular kind: what a Playmate will publicly admit being publicly attached to. It is the male equivalent of wanting to show his friends a picture of what he just fucked last night versus wanting to cast it down the memory hole forever.

        This isn’t to say in a club context (or in a bookstore) the ten couldn’t be gamed into a bang or series of bangs. But to be a Bragging Item on the Official Handwritten Playmate Questionnaire? You need to bring more to the table than perceptive sexual deviancy, tricks of touch and speech, hypergamous exploitation, and alcohol. You need recognized status, not just being the supercool guy in an Affliction tee she casually brushed her vagina with.



      • money power fame = access to hot girls in situations where other guys are supplicating to you and feeding into your high value. this leads to success with those girls with leads to unlimited confidence around those girls and the feeling that you are entitled to them. If you could skip the money power fame and get access to the same girls where guys and everyone are reacting to you as if you’re high value you’d get the same results. obviously for the extreme example of playboy playmates this is hard. But the concepts are still sound.


      • @annonymous:

        The reason she’s fucking celebrities instead of the unemployed drummer isn’t that his lack of job isn’t attractive, or that celebrity status is attractive, it’s that the drummer doesn’t have access to her world. ie – he’s not partying in the same bars/social circles as she is, and when she goes out she’s not mingling, she has 4 bodyguards with her and she’s meeting guys through her social circles which, as a celebrity, are generally networks of celebrities. Women tend to date men they meet through social circles in general (like a college girl dating someone in her school), and her celebrity status only enhanced that because she has more to lose (risking her reputation, finances, career, etc) banging a random guy who isn’t pre-approved by her social circles. And even when she meets an “outsider” she has to put up a wall of fake politeness because of her reputation because she doesn’t know who that guy is so even if he’s cool, he has an uphill battle to break through that wall of artificiality.

        Note that those are all external logistical barriers that are preventing the unemployed natural and the celeb from hooking up. They have nothing to do with actual attraction. They’re the same as if you hung out in a sausage-fest bar instead of the Playboy mansion…it’s not that those girls won’t find you attractive it’s that you’re not in the same social world as them.

        So gaining MPF can get you access to these environments and get you an intro to that celeb, but that’s all it gets you. From there you need game.

        This is a very important distinction and I think that guys who don’t go out don’t fucking get why I’m differentiating these two things. They read what I wrote and think “so you’re agreeing I should get MPF because then I’ll get celeb pussy” and ya the end result is you will have better access to where those girls are compared to the average joe but that’s not getting you attraction.

        You can get the exact same result through other means. Like say being Hugh Heffner’s best childhood friend. He became a jillionaire and you’re a janitor but you and him go way back and he trusts you like crazy and you’re his best friend in the world because you guys have history and he trusts you. Would you need MPF to land Playboy bunnies? No, you’re Heff’s buddy, you have access to the mansion plus the social proof of Heff introducing you to people. You’ve just gotten into the same logistical scenario as the MPF celebrity except you did it by fluke by being his buddy…but the important thing to take from it is that despite being a janitor, you have the same opportunity to bang those girls as the MPF guy so if you have some decent game, you’re banging playboy models like the MPF guy.

        Group Theory in traditional Game (ie – Mystery Method, and Lovesystem’s Social Circle DVDs) are about learning how to work social circles and use Game to connect people and network and use women as pivots and build comfort/rapport with people and build your way up TO the point where you’re a part of these social circles that have the types of girls that you want. Whether it’s the rocker type chicks who hate MPF guys or the high-end socialite hotties that have 4 bodyguards out with them, you’re working your way up the ladder of those groups to have access to those girls without needing MPF so you end up in the position of Heff’s janitor BFF.

        From there it comes down to whether you have better game than the MPF guy, as any ugly charismatic guy who’s gotten laid while their better looking but AFC buddy goes home alone, demonstrates.

        Get what I’m saying? This is why I say I’ll put my Natural buddy up against most MPF dudes with Playboy bunnies any day of the week and he’ll get laid first and by hotter girls because his game is ridiculous…BUT he’ll never have access to those girls because as a Natural he doesn’t consciously cultivate climbing the social ladder toward that goal.

        Some PUAs on the other hand, who are looking at the bigger picture, purposely figure out the ladders and focus on climbing them using the skillsets Mystery et al laid out for us.

        I think a lot of you guys have too narrow a focus in what Game is and what potential it has beyond just picking up a one night stand.

        Here’s a sample of how I’d work a room to put myself in a high-status position quickly, I posted it at Rollo’s:

        This part of the seminar talks about merging sets and using pivots and comfort etc, but with MM his view OF pickup is that basically the entire bar is one big set, so Group Theory is sort of mixed into all of his stuff as opposed to just having a very separate “how to shmooze the manager of a bar” section, you know?:

        I recommend watching all the MM clips (that’s Part 4, I think there’s 5 parts), because a lot of the stuff that works on women, works on men too. Men respond to social proof (lonely old man comes up to you and says hi, old man with 4 Playboy models comes up to you and says hi, who do you assume is higher value?), comfort/rapport building (figuring out what their values are and mirroring them back to him, being authentic/honest, sharing vulnerabilities/commonalities, making confident eye contact, etc.)…there’s a hook point (the point where they go from not caring if you leave to enjoying the interaction and not waiting for you to leave) with guys just like there is with girls and mixed sets. And once you cross the hook point you can build comfort/rapport and lead the conversation towards qualifying them, etc.
        so basically you’re running a lot of the same stuff one-on-one stuff on the guys that you are on the girls (not kino, lol), and to GET to that one-on-one situation you use external Game tactics (social proof, pivots, merging sets, etc.), depending on how high value the guy is. If he’s just a random Nice Guy dude in a mixed set, you can just be like “Hey man how’s your night, these girls are gorgeous hey?” and he’s happy to chit-chat with you and boom, you’re his new BFF for the night and he introduces you to his girls.
        If the guy is super high value, like a Rollo at one of his liquor promo events where his time is taken up by all the attention he’s getting and he’s very clearly the highest value person in the room, you need to bust out more tactics to get on his radar. It’s the same as an average girl VS a smokin hot turbo girl surrounded by 10 guys…you can just say “Hey, what’s up?” to the average girl, and that MIGHT work on the smokin hot turbo girl, but better would be to roll up to the turbo girl with 2 girls on your arms laughing and then dropping a Neg on her as you pass by, know what I mean?
        So here’s some mental masturbation for how I would work one of Rollo’s events (except it’s not mental masturbation because I’ve actually done this kind of thing, more than once, lol I usually follow a gameplan similar to this but you have to tweak it for the situation of course):
        If I walked in solo, I’d start from the bottom and work my way up. Open and befriend a bunch of easy sets, merge them with eachother to be the social connector (if two sets are merged by someone, the person with the highest value in that new large set is the guy who connected them because both sets assume he must know everyone in the other group of strangers they’ve just met) and use them as social proof and pivots to work my way up to the hotter girls in the bar. I’d keep an eye on who Rollo talks to and figure out which of them are close to him and which are random acquaintences and I’d approach them instead of him directly (same way you get to a turbo girl, open her friends instead of bee-lining it for her which makes her think you want something).
        Building comfort/etc. with his acquaintences (if they’re women, innocently flirt with and flatter them, if they’re men, introduce them to women I’ve met that night), eventually I’d end up in Rollo’s vicinity and onto his radar. Ideally I’d have one of his closer acquaintences I’ve been building comfort with introduce me to him (“Oh is THAT Rollo? I love this event, I wanted to say hi to him but he’s running around so much I haven’t gotten a chance.” which generally results in an “Oh come with me, I’ll introduce you!”). Now I’m getting intoduced to him, maybe with a hottie on my arm, through one of his close acquaintances (social proof, pre-selection, being recommended by one of his social circle etc. are all packed into my introduction now) and he’s probably noticed me doing my thing at points throughout the night and, as far as he knows, I know a ton of people at his event because I’ve been chatting with people and twirling girls around on the dance floor etc…Much better than just making a bee-line from the door as an annonymous nobody and going directly up to him looking to take value which COULD work and he might be friendly because it’s his event, but would probably put him on his guard and keep me at arm’s length and I have bigger goals in mind than just scoring a promo drink off him.
        Once I get to him (lol like getting to the boss in a videogame after levelling up, working a room really is similar to that), and introduce him to a girl or two that I’ve met that night, I figure out what his values and our commonalities are (not hard to figure out based on the event we’re at and the conversations I’ve had with people who know him etc.) and I start building a connection with him. From here, ideally I isolate him from the group (lol, this sounds so gay I know) because people bond better with some alone time together, but this can be as simple as grabbing a drink at the bar with him or whatever, I just need a few minutes where we’re talking directly to eachother. DHV a bit, be a fun guy, joke around with the bartender as we get a drink (who ideally I’ve met earlier in the night when I was building up my value), and basically be an all-around cool social high-value guy.
        He’ll have shit to do mingling and all that, obviously, so I know I only get a few minutes, but generally manager types will give me their card at this point and offer to hook me up etc. because it looks like I’m the kind of guy they want at their events and that I can probably bring people, etc. (ie – I bring value instead of take it). From this point on that night, I’m about as high value as he is, or slightly less, because he thinks I’m cool but I’m not a close friend yet. That’s enough for that event though, I can use the value I’ve got now with pretty much any chick at the event.
        But to play it long-term, I’ll shoot him a txt the next day congratulating him on the event, saying I had a great time, and because it’s Rollo probably mentioning I got laid to make him laugh. He saves my # and the next event I’m out at, I invite him out, or when he’s doing his “invite all the event type people out” invites he has to do as part of his business networking he invites me out. When I show up I make sure to come say hi to him and shoot the shit for a bit (usually if they own the club we’re in they’ll buy me a shot/drinks here, but they do that for all the regulars so I know I have to make an effort to shoot the shit about something relevant to them and build some comfort). Over the course of a few events I don’t necessarily become one of his close friends (though you never know, sometimes you just click with people solid and end up hanging out outside the bar scene, or if I threw a good party or something he might show up as we got to know eachother), but I at least become a guy that he looks forward to seeing.
        At THAT point when I walk into his event, he goes “YaReally!! Hey man! Glad you made it, how’s it going?” and shakes my hand “I want you to meet Such and Such” and I get introduced via him and everyone around us (staff, girls, etc.) sees I know the most important guy in the room and how happy he is to see me, and now I basically look higher value than him since he’s so eager to introduce me around, so I MUST be high value. If we DO build a friendship outside of the bar scene as well, then I become a close friend and become even higher value when I show up because now I’m his good buddy dropping in.
        So ya, that’s what I’d do. Like I say, I know that’s what I’d do because I’ve done it before lol It sounds like a lot of work to read all this, but when you logically look at what’s involved in it, 1) the only money I NEED to spend is whatever it costs to attend the event (usually like $10 club cover, or more for a larger ticketed event), 2) the majority of it only takes me like 2-4 hours at the first main event then some after-care, 3) I don’t even need massive seduction skills for most of it, just general social and comfort/rapport skills, 4) I don’t need to have money, a job, a car, etc. for any of it, just charisma and understanding Game, 5) it’s all fun, I get to meet a ton of people and probably come out of it with a bunch of cool stories…
        But most importantly 6) It’s sure as shit easier/faster/cheaper than starting a line of liquor brands and running a promo event or buying and managing a nightclub etc.

        One other thing to note about that strategy I wrote up above is that no part of it requires any kind of superhuman magic powers. If you break down what I’m doing through out, literally all I’m doing is causally chatting some people up in a friendly way, getting to know them a bit, and introducing them to eachother. There’s no “oh I could never do that” magic ninja tricks in there. I’m just doing it in a very strategic manner, and applying Game tactics to help out (like comfort to connect with guys, and teasing/kino to flirt with girls, etc.). It’s all just basic game applied strategically with a purpose/goal.


      • Jack gets it.

        The disconnect is that to you guys you can only get the high-value that MPF brings by achieving MPF. Your scope is too narrow and it tells me that you don’t have a wide variety of social circles and that you don’t have solid cold-approach skills that you regularly work on (thinking you’d be good at chatting up strangers and visualizing it is not the same as doing it for 10+ hours every week).

        If you regularly cold-approached and worked varieties of social circles and merged them and pivoted off them you’d have seen first-hand that high value is about building connections with the right people and the rest can be an illusion or temporary or situational and the same result is achieved (access to hotties the MPF guys have access to).

        Again read my comment here about how I’d work Rollo’s party. The end result of that strategy (that I’ve executed before, consistently) is that I’d have the same or even higher value than Rollo and thus have access to the same girls.

        You have to understand that Game, even PUA Game, is not just about getting one-on-one short-term pussy. A lot of the marketing focuses on that because that draws guys in, but the Mystery Method wasn’t about just banging some lone wolf girl separated from her friends. It was about becoming the highest value guy in high value social circles without needing to run the MPF rat-race every other guy is running.

        Watch the Mystery Method DVDs, they’re on YouTube. I believe Part 4 is where he talks about using pivots and merging groups etc. Combine that with understanding how alpha/value/AMOG tech works and you’re on your way to worlds of access that normal people only dream of.

        I’m VIP at a few clubs where I live right now. Is it because I have MPF and I make it rain money and shit? No, it’s because I strategically targeted specific people and methodically worked my way up the social chain to where managers and owners see me and come over to shake my hand and introduce me to people and I get free drinks all night and access to the hot girls and staff chicks.

        And I can reproduce that in any environment with the same strategies…whether its the local coffee shop or my work environment or a new nightclub etc.

        Sure the MPF guy walks in and has the same value as me but while he spent his time building his MPF, I spent mine practicing seducing women specifically, so he may be high-value and a badass in his social circle but my game is tighter, and it only needs to be 1% tighter. Go head to head with guys for girls and try taking girls off guys at the bar to experience this. If you’re not willing to do that and haven’t both succeeded and failed at it and seen the consistent patterns, you’re just mentally masturbating theory.


      • YaR’s stuff is long-winded, but it does fill in a lot of gaps. Getting the right attitude around women is one thing, but by itself it still can’t do shit if one is not cool with the right people!


      • Corvinus wrote:

        YaR’s stuff is long-winded, but it does fill in a lot of gaps.

        And so we burrow down to the essence of YaReally game: Volume + persistence. Very workmanlike, and admirable in that respect.

        Watch what a man does, pay attention to how he speaks rather than what he says.



      • YaReally wrote:

        The reason she’s fucking celebrities instead of the unemployed drummer isn’t that his lack of job isn’t attractive, or that celebrity status is attractive, it’s that the drummer doesn’t have access to her world.

        True enough, but spoken like a purveyor of dogma rather than a disinterested analyst. You give away the game (literally) by claiming “celebrity status is [not] attractive” in itself. Say what?

        Why, pray tell, doesn’t the drummer “have access to her world”? It’s because her world barricades out the pretenders and mimics: you need the actual status that attends actual accomplishment to gain entry, not just the superficial attitudes and imitated postures of status, which you believe to be everything.

        Of course the essence of attraction manifests itself very differently when stripped away from certain social contexts. But those layers of protection are there for a reason. They filter out the bottom feeders and mid-level chumps, even if some of you have overcome the self-imposed chumpdom which causes shlubs to preemptively disqualify themselves. To disregard the social milieu as fake and therefore irrelevant smells like the resentment of an outsider held back by bouncers and velvet ropes.

        I suppose you have something important to teach the most asocial of your students, and God bless you for it. But this is some seriously basic stuff. You’re not talking to average frustrated chumps, you’re speaking to social misfits and autistic adults. Who gets through high school without a rough understanding of the difference between status and attraction? Who can make it through our culture without some sense of it? Even the omegaest of omegae can see through the lie of Taylor Swift videos and She’s All That nerdling-to-swan stories that happen when the girl takes off her glasses. They’re living the underside of that lie.



      • So gaining MPF can get you access to these environments and get you an intro to that celeb, but that’s all it gets you. From there you need game.

        Please. Stop with the rote proselytizing. We all acknowledge game to be important, even vital in most contexts, that’s why we are here. But your faith that Game Is Everything makes you an unreliable witness to reality.

        Yes, game always helps, never hurts. But do you really think some dashing lunkhead millionaire center for the L.A. Kings can only get “an intro” to prime pussy? Rather than needing game to score like fish-flaps in a barrel, he’d need game to fend it off, given that so much labia is flying at him so fast and so furiously. No woman, celebrity or non, says, “I could have slept with Justin Timberlake but he was just so boring to talk to.” Women whore after status so much that there is an entire publication industry devoted to the fantasy of intimate access, the tabloids.

        You have come so far, but you really have to transcend your outsider-looking-in mentality once and for all. You wear that attitude secretly, like nevernude jorts.



      • Objective measures of success (education, wealth, nice car) open barriers to certain classes of women. Quality, upper class “wife material” women may be vulnerable to tight game from an unemployed drummer, but their social circles are such that they would never come into contact with that guy.

        Women are much more abundant to men with a good job, a nice car and a house. I was probably more “alpha-like” in college, but I had no ability to even meet quality women than to seduce them. I wasn’t in a fraternity, but my friends who were said it was tough for them to meet the hot sorority girls because they often were dating older guys and stayed aloof from the greek events.

        There is a population of cute girls who like to party and do the bar scene, and they will make the rounds with guys regardless of social class. But most quality girls are looking for guys in the same or higher social class than themselves. Class trumps looks in my experience. In college there was definitely a class of girls that I had very little chance of success with. After getting a professional degree, a good job and good car, almost any single girl, even the hottest single girls, would at least go out with me once.

        Class opens doors. Game and looks help in closing the deal, but class/status is the biggest factor, IMO.


      • I sure wish we could all be badass pussy slayers who deeply understand all the secrets of the universe right out of high school like King A.

        I bet even Jesus wants to be like King A.

        I am absolutely CERTAIN that you hang out in the highest of value social circles with the absolute hottest women and wide varieties of friends from across the world.



      • Sure, pattern yourself after a guy who’s on a sitcom.

        He wouldn’t be getting any if he wasn’t on TV.


    • Can’t really blame the guy for wanting to. A large number of men are already using anabolics to improve their chances in the current mating landscape, although most of them will stubbornly deny both the using and them deriving their prime motivation from the prospect of pussy. This number will likely only increase, with many becoming more desperate to secure pussy in the matriarchal utopia of the (near) future.

      A nice future indeed… Men (game aware or not) having to resort to steroids, putting their healths in the scale, hoping to grap the attention of some miss ‘unrestrained hypergamy’.


    • on December 26, 2012 at 9:33 pm Rihanna Deserved It

      Tell him to take 2 teaspoons of creatine and eat 3500 calories per day (by eating calorie dense AKA fatty foods)


    • on December 27, 2012 at 8:51 pm Lives in Dupont

      tell him to get on 400 mg testosterone. Should be everyone’s first bulking cycle, imo, no need to add in an oral, especially if he is a skinny ectomorph….he will blow up on test alone, provided his caloric intake is sufficient.

      You can get anything you want…just search Google for anti-aging clinic / hormone replacement clinic / physician rejuvenation clinic and your zip code, all legal, but ethically dubious, I guess, since does a healthy 20 something really NEED to use? It is all vanity.

      Despite that, don’t listen to the hysteria surrounding anabolics. I’m 27, been pinning since I was 18, and I’ll never come off. If he starts using, he better commit himself to blasting and cruising — the whole post cycle therapy and coming off and on just sends the body thru a stressful hormonal roller coaster, I cruise on a low, hormone replacement test dosage and then ramp up as appropriate. If he cannot deal with this, better to remain natural.


    • on December 28, 2012 at 10:12 am Hugh G. Rection

      Well he better keep an eye on his liver then (means have blood drawn and checked for liver enzymes), or better choose the safer Option of injectable steroids, which of course requires to learn how to give yourself injections. Also of note, with many steroids you’ll also increase your estrogen.

      But if he doesn’t pack on the muscle in the first year of training he’ll not pack on anything with roids either. It’s probably his training and diet that’s lacking.


  13. Indeed They are Outbanging and maybe in many cases Outbreeding Dads.


  14. Early puberty is associated with shortness:


  15. I was perusing some who-dated-who website and even if obvious, it stroked me how long is the chain of relationships for some of those top-alpha guys, it is basically one hot girl after another each relationship 1-2 years long. As for the girls , most of them date those top guys during their 20s, early 30s and then “settle” with some director or showbiz executive. It is uncontrolled hypergamy all the way down.


  16. I have posted this before. Maybe it is worth another post.
    In the late 70s, I lived in the Philippines for two years. During that time, I had sex with about 200 women. That includes blow jobs, threesomes, foursomes, penetration lap-sex while watching a floor show, 69, and normal sex. Most of them were bar girls, but not all. It was a game for me to see how much free pussy I could get, but I did not mind paying for it. I once got a BJ for a Susan B. Anthony dollar. I never used a condom unless the woman insisted. I never got an infection from it. I always washed up and took a good strong San Miguel beer whiz right afterward.

    If you got a STD right before your reassignment date, the military would not let you leave until the infection was cleared up—usually two to three weeks. Sexually active guys assigned themselves a PCOD (pussy cut off date) about two weeks before reassignment. I did this but I did not catch anything anyway.

    Some of these women got pregnant and told me about it. They said American men made pretty babies.


    • on December 28, 2012 at 6:45 pm Student of scholomance

      “American men made pretty babies”

      Being half Filipino, I can attest to this. It’s true. I’m one handsome motherfucker!

      My mom had me in Clark Air Force base, and my dad died in acti- …*gulp* …….Dad?


      • How old are you stud?


      • on December 28, 2012 at 10:09 pm Student of scholomance

        You were there at the 70’s so nah Mr. Ken I was born just before they closed down that US base and handed it over to the Philippine government lol

        But for any white men reading this; go to the Philippines. Lots of girls wanna jump you there and wear you as a hat. Mr. Ken saw the light

        (the same girls native Filipino men don’t want anyways, different taste in looks so win-win)


      • *squonk*

        Greg, whorefinder,
        we have a racemixer in aisle 9, thats a racemixer in aisle 9, please dispatch a beatdown team to aisle 9.



      • We don’t go near Petrie dishes for fear of contamination… my men are not expendable.


      • How ironic if you would come over here and fuck white bitchezz!!


  17. As Anonymous was saying….this just in…

    ““We have one class that thinks marriage and fatherhood is important, and another which doesn’t, and it’s causing that gap, income inequality, to get wider,” Mr. DiCaro said.
    The predilection among men to walk away from their babies is concentrated in the inner cities. In Baltimore, 38 percent of families have two parents, and in St. Louis the portion is 40 percent.”


  18. Wow. I just found this blog and I can’t stop reading it despite how offensive it is at times.


  19. “1.8 children”



  20. also, a crazy high suicide rate for boys who go through puberty early:

    “In boys, the attempted suicide rate was five times higher in those who went through early puberty than those who went through it at a normal age, which is a frightening statistic. Nothing I know of comes close as a risk factor for teen suicide,” said Gluckman.


  21. Calm

    We should all be lucky to be cads.


  22. I got an interesting case for you Heartiste. New neighbors moved in (i live in a Southern state). Both are from DC. They are seemingly expats from the SWPL machine. They have six!!! kids ages <8 years old. No iphones, no hollywood movies. The wife seems to have been a minx at a younger age. Beta husband now.

    A shock to see them so far down in rebel territory.


  23. My guess is the Cads are outbanging the cads, and that it is happening among middle and upper classes. You can look at Murray’s trendlines for White middle and working class illegitiamacy, from about 4% in the 1960’s for all classes to about 40% for the White working class and 20% for the White middle classes.

    Women freed from economic dependency and in open cultural/political alliance with non-Whites against Straight White guys have for now, maximum power. But that power will decrease as literally the power grid does not stay up. Technology based civilizations have enormous power, their ability to dominate neighbors is amazing. But they have a weakness, unsexy beta males cooperating and focusing on “boring” stuff that women find tedious or repellent: math, science, and technology. Instead of becoming the dangerous, sexy, dominant, thuggish, bad boy singers, dancers and fighters that women all love.

    You will have fewer and fewer beta males born every year, as bad boys dominate fertility and the social need for a father declines (see Murray’s stats in his latest book). If form follows function, fertility follows who a woman has sex with. And mostly, that’s with bad boys/Alphas. As sexy and as dominant as say, Chris Brown is, he’s not the type of guy to produce nerdy engineers who keep the power grid going. [Related, the latest Pillsbury commercial features two “adorable” Black kids making Christmas cookies then a pan up to their White mother. See the Lexus Christmas commercial a few years back with a Black guy, his two kids, and White wife/mate. Clearly in the sexy Chris Brown dominance department, Black guys have it over White guys, who are far too beta male. Otherwise advertisers catering to nearly 85% female watchers would not push that. Guys don’t buy much Pillsbury Christmas Cookie dough.]


  24. OT:

    So I watched “It’s a Wonderful Life” for the millionth time…but I never realized this.

    In the nightmare scenario…his wife was a single librarian and referred as an old maid. In his real life she was a happy wife and mother. It’s amazing how different movies were back then.


    • I regret that I did not profile Jimmy Stewart in my recent Spearhead essay “Air Force to Scrap the Strawberry Bitch?”. My dad said he was highly regarded by the air crews and flew 20 combat missions over Nazi Germany despite resistance from the brass. Jimmy looks like an ectomorph.

      Bogart, Stewart, Knotts; those guys didn’t need to spend all their time at the gym getting “buff”.


    • on December 27, 2012 at 7:06 am Days of Broken Arrows

      Yep. Someone recently told me Beyonce’s “Single Ladies” was used in tge recent kids movie “Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel.” I’m sure this is Hollywood’s way of indoctrinating young girls into a lifetime of carousel riding.


      • I thought that song promoted marriage. The guy she was with wouldn’t commit, so she was saying if he didn’t want to see her with someone else, he should have “put a ring on it.”


      • That’s like saying people understand ‘Born to Run’ by Bruce is not the american anthem that people who lack reading comprehension think it is. They don’t. They think that whole album is about as rah rah as you can get. Same with ‘all the single ladies’. Have you ever been to a wedding? Ever seen what happens when that song comes on? The floor doesn’t get bum rushed by a bunch of married chicks, i’ll tell you that.


      • You mean Born In The USA.


      • Great,now we’re analyzing Beyonce songs!


      • The only way I could twist that song meaning into promotion of marriage is if we dwelve on the specifics. In other words: it promotes marriage with the top tier of alphas, cads and studs and if that doesn’t work out then be “independent”. Because God forbid some little random 5/10 slut ever get the idea she should “settle” for someone her own SMV.

        So no: all that dumbass song is promoting is being an entitled carousel-slut that’s too good for everyone.


      • I always found it curious that the songwriters used that pronoun.


    • He still should have done Violet


    • If a woman couldn’t get a Dad in the old days, she went cuckoo. Apparently riding the Cad carousel back then made it much, much more difficult.

      For example, here’s a case study that might interest CH:

      Audrey Munson was arguably the most sought women in New York around the turn of the last century, and couldn’t get a husband after in her 30s. Apparently she couldn’t find a rich beta willing to jump on that grenade. How times have changed, indeed.


    • And flipping through the channels today, a scene from Bewitched:

      Musical chairs at the kid’s school. One chair left, two kids, one being the Bewitched kid. Teacher says, after announcing the game almost over and there can be only one, “Losing isn’t bad, but winning is grand.”

      I long for the days when everything wasn’t FAIRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!! I can’t even imagine a teacher saying that these days. You’d have Susie’s two mommies at school threatening a lawsuit.


  25. It is a polite fiction that women get STD’s more easily than men. 80% of the women have sex with 20% of the men.

    HIV rates:
    Black males > black females > white females > white males.

    (This includes all comers, not just hetero’s, I believe.)

    Any questions?


    • Is it true that herpes leaves the body after 20 years? I haven’t had an outbreak in months.


    • My guess is that some monstrously high percentage of all black males – maybe out around 75% – are secretly “on the down low”.


      • Zombie Shane
        My guess is that some monstrously high percentage of all black males – maybe out around 75% – are secretly “on the down low”

        OK, I finally have a theory about the “down low” meme and it goes like this:

        Because gay white men clearly and openly dominate homosexual culture, it became necessary to invent an “invisible” black male homosexual culture in order to compensate for the increased perception of black male masculinity that resulted.

        This is the origin of the “down low” meme.

        Like all sucessful memes, it is rooted in a logical base. “Gay rights” is a recent phenomenon and only white people could afford the luxury of being openly gay.

        Even today, despite a full white supremacists promotion of all things gay on the black community; black people still largely refuse to accept homosexuality as anything other than abnormal.

        Therefore, black homosexuals are more likely to hide their homosexuality than white homosexuals. This closeted behavior gets classified as “bisexual” and the white supremacists use it as an excuse to amplify the numbers of “bisexual” black males by claiming they are hidden in the “down low” culture.

        This creates distrust and confusion between black males and black females which expands and refines the system of white supremacy.

        To sum up, black people are much less tolerant of homosexuality than white people. Only white people can afford to openly present as a fag.


        Because under the aegis of white supremacy, only white fags cans support and defend faggotry; they control entire industries and many employment opportunities.

        Black faggots?

        They remain niggers no matter how hard they try to function as homosexuals.



      • Urban legend has it that meme was created and perpetuated by a gay black male writer for monetary purposes as a form of emotional therapy for 30-something black women to help them rationalize why many of them are still single. The high occurrence of HIV in the black male population is mainly centered around the prison/ex-con population.


      • “According to Fox News exit polls, whites, 60 percent of the Maryland electorate, supported Question 6 by a 54-46 margin; while black voters, making up 28 percent of the electorate, opposed it by a 54-46 margin. But the same exit poll shows a split along gender lines within the black community, with black women narrowly approving Question 6 by a 51-49 margin and black men votingagainst it by a 60-40 margin.” A majority of black women in the sixth blackest state in the country , while a significant margin of black men did as well voted for gay marriage. You also missed the point of extremely higher STD rates among blacks for the theory of down low black men. Black women don’t seem to have any shame in being openly lesbian. And the more dense and urban the area is, even more do you notice the black boys in women’s jeans and wearing lip gloss. Black men in prison will openly admit to reviving blowjobs or giving anal penetration and still claim they are not gay because those are the only options available, obviously overlooking abstinence and/or masturbation.


      • That said, I suspect the % of black men who butthex each other is higher than the % of white men who do, just because of the higher HIV rate among black men and women.

        But good on y’all for your continued anti-fag attitude. I wish we whiteys still had it, and not just in places like Russia.


      • No. The queer lobby is banking on the idea that blacks and sodomists are natural allies because they are both groups oppressed by bourgeois whitey.

        Thwack rejects half of that formula (the natural alliance) while, predictably, promoting the equally absurd other half: whites are holding him down, at the expense of their own advantage, rather than affirmative-action-lifting him up to levels out of his depth, which results in the embarrassment of underperformance, which requires an emotional scapegoat, such as blaming rednecks, latent racism, and goofy, self-refuting supremacists for the comprehensive failure of their apocalyptically dysfunctional culture.

        He will strenuously deny his sympathy for the deviants — even as he consistently promotes their agenda through what he believes is political expediency. And so we get off-the-wall conspiracy theories about “necessary … invent[ions]” and “invisible black[s]” against the harsh statistical truth in front of his face. When facts don’t fit the frame, make a ruckus, blame honkey, and let white guilt prevent scrutiny from ever coming close to touching his absurdities.

        Cep homey don play dat shit roun here. Here there be whiteys who laugh at the usual guilt-trip shuck-n-jive and are willing to speak directly, eye-to-eye, about the lie. Surrounded by the fluffy cowardice of SWPL and the stupidity of white-trash racists (the only snobbery available to the poor), he returns here consistently to provoke us. It’s his sign of respect.



      • corvinus
        That said, I suspect the % of black men who butthex each other is higher than the % of white men who do, just because of the higher HIV rate among black men and women.

        Indeed Corvinus, there are probably more black homos than white homos; but thats also true for all pathologies.

        When it comes to destructive behaviors and or circumstances, the darker you are, the worse it is, so the fag thing doesn’t surprise me. But calling it “down low” is misleading.

        In addition, HIV rates are a poor indicator for homo sex when it comes to black people because it does not account for the better health care white people recieve which prevents opportunistic infections which serve as pathways for HIV transmission.

        Its actually difficult for a fully healthy person to catch HIV from anything other than a dirty needle, blood transfusion…

        To sum up, in a white supremacy system, theres gonna be lots of unhealthy black people walking around sick with weakened immune systems.

        All AIDS does is kill off the rest of it so you can die from something like a common cold.

        BTW, one unpopular theory I heard about the origin of the AIDS virus describes it as a viral mutation that occured in response to gay men taking huge quatities of antibiotics BEFORE flying down to the carribean for week long homosex orgies.

        The logic being that these gay men tried to “beat the system” by taking mass quantities of antibiotics before their orgies instead of waiting till they got back and showed symptoms.

        Has anyone else heard of this theory?


      • BTW, one unpopular theory I heard about the origin of the AIDS virus describes it as a viral mutation that occured in response to gay men taking huge quatities of antibiotics BEFORE flying down to the carribean for week long homosex orgies.

        The logic being that these gay men tried to “beat the system” by taking mass quantities of antibiotics before their orgies instead of waiting till they got back and showed symptoms.

        Has anyone else heard of this theory?

        Since the Big Three STDs (syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia) are all bacterial, and therefore can be treated with antibiotics, it wouldn’t surprise me if the butthexers tried something like that. But antibiotics don’t do any good against viruses like HIV, so when HIV did emerge, the fags caught it in the butt (heh) and started dropping like flies.


      • That is such bullshit! Its very easy to spot black fags;theyre the guys parodied so cruelly–and funnily–on Living Color. Black male HETEROS are often willing to go for males. I guess that hurts your manly nigga pride but its true. I have been hit on by hetero black males as well as black fags. In both cases….EEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWW YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    • Can’t we just stop talking about gay shit?
      Damn disgusting…


    • of course hypergamy is a factor in a larger portion of women having STDs than men, but women DO get STDs more easily, and if you think about the biology of sex its obvious why.

      a good STD defense is keep your dick out of niggers and fuck women with lower N counts.

      black males have high HIV rates because their dicks are riddled with herpes and ulcers, which drastically increase transmission rate.

      If you are a white male with no ulcers on your dick, female to male HIV transmission is practically nonexistent. the same can’t be said for a white female.


      • a good STD defense is keep your dick out of niggers and fuck women with lower N counts.

        That won’t save you because white people are slowly being turned into niggers.

        The BEST strategy is to get one good woman and just have sex with her.

        They are out there, but you have to show them “hand”.


      • on December 30, 2012 at 8:02 pm gunslingergregi

        i don’t know how but yea tests came up negative yesterday he he he


  26. on December 26, 2012 at 7:10 pm Mike Erpelding

    Remember that when you sit atop the breeding chain you want to limit potential competition. All life is the struggle for resources. Food, water, shelter, and wombs. True Alpha males, the so called dark triad types are direct competition to the elite. So you check their ability to breed by providing easy legal abortion. Do you think that the third world Alpha leader would allow for easy abortion of his spawn amongst his numerous concubines? Civilization depends on vast numbers of provider males working in the trenches providing the goods and motive power that the elites depend upon. Take those Beta males away and you have Afghanistan. Lot’s of breeding Alphas but few able to sit upon the world as the types of overarching power-brokers that now rule. The power elite doesn’t desire competition, it desires co-operation. Hence the violent imposition of women’s rights and reproductive freedom in traditionally patriarchal societies. For our people to recover a sense of themselves, our women must bear Alpha males. But that means that our hypergamous women can’t be allowed to abort their children.


  27. OK, here’s the word on this one:

    First of all, if boys are indeed experiencing puberty earlier, then the most likely cause is simply better nutrition.

    Secondly, while it is a decent hypothesis, there is no evidence that the presence of boys from other racial groups causes (White) boys to experience puberty earlier. I personally doubt it, but you’d have to dig up data to see if that’s the case. I’d imagine it’ll be hard, but far from impossible, to test.

    To the general claim that cads are getting more sex than dads, I can’t argue there. Indeed, this is what makes them cads!

    To the question of whether or not cads are outbreeding dads, the jury is still very much out. I agree, the GSS data is probably not reliable on this question, since, as I admitted on my blog post on the issue, “men lie up while women lie down.”

    The paper that states that men who have multiple partners have more children is useless; it’s clearly not controlled for race. Obviously among groups like Blacks, men who have had multiple partners bear more children. Come now dude, for someone who talks a lot about the reality of HBD, I’m surprised that you’d gloss over this basic point.

    As for the long term prognosis on this point, the main issue here is the “rightening” of American Whites (since religious conservatives are by far the most prodigious breeders). The growing of this obviously intolerant group combined with an increasing non-White population is bound to be an explosive mix…


  28. on December 26, 2012 at 11:41 pm Gouverneur Morris

    In related news, fathers are disappearing in America, especially in the black community. Who would have thought?


  29. i’m 38, never married, and have a soft harem back home in new orleans; and have FWB here in jax- a 23 yo stripper, hard 8.

    i’m never getting married, and i’ll never quit banging. hopefully oung girls keep watching MTV and slutting up. as long as they do, i’ll never be for lack of female attention.


  30. on December 27, 2012 at 7:55 am Ritchie Fuckmore

    I’d say cads have always outbanged the dads.
    This may have had the reigns pulled on it between about the 1810’s-1950’s – easily one of the most repressively conservative eras in the history of western civilization – but it’s back in full swing now.


  31. If you spend enough time ‘above the law’, and being the absolute top of the food change, where does the line get drawn?

    In my case, having almost unlimited cash (for local conditions), almost unlimited access to teenage girls, and nobody to tell me what to do, no cops having power over me … where do you stop?


    At some point ‘outbanging’ just merges. I can tell you that there are several of these chicks that will be happy to have my babies. And I can support them, on the side. Presented as the default context, it becomes real. It’s not cheating. it’s what it is. I rule.


  32. Excellent post.


  33. The modern school system (kids grouped by age) favors earlier male puberty. Since guys are artificially restricted to competing against others more or less the same age, those who hit puberty first come out ahead through higher confidence and superior early socialization. In earlier times hitting puberty early wouldn’t have done much for a man and might well have been a drawback if he hadn’t developed adequate life skills.


  34. […] produced some evidence (primarily from the GSS) that tenuously indicates that this is not the case, it may be impossible to know for sure, due to the potential unreliability of self-report promiscuity and […]


  35. Beta chronicles.

    50yo woman beats up her 30yo boyfriend because he quits 69ing before she does.

    Woman dumps her luvvy duvvy beta b/f in college to chase badboys who can’t pay for dinner, let alone commit. Decades later, she laments. The hilarious part is that she is warned in advance NOT to do this by her dad’s girlfriend – who is getting the exact same treatment. Her dad just sits through the warning with an inward smirk.


  36. While I agree the pendulum will swing back: we are unfortunately sacrificial generations that will not reap the rewards.
    All we can do is make sure that the red pill truth about women is passed on for future generations. That’s the easy part: we must really teach all younger men that women will lie and that they need to refuse the blue pill vehemently. The second you start believing their pretty lies is the second their hypergamy will rise again. Women need constant and extremely harsh discipline to keep their inner whore under control: unlike men they cannot contain their most primal drives by themselves (honor is a uniquely male concept and term) but need a strong backhand to set them straight once every week.

    Please teach this lesson to all men wherever you see fit.


  37. on December 30, 2012 at 7:59 pm gunslingergregi

    my 8 millionth false pregnancy from a chick i am under the impression that i cant have kids


  38. on December 30, 2012 at 8:07 pm gunslingergregi

    i was rooting for her too its kind of sad when a chick wants your baby to try and keep you and cant have it


  39. on December 30, 2012 at 11:29 pm gregory cochran

    Every man a woman sleeps with shows her contempt for her future husband. If you spoke to a teenage girl in 1950 she’d say “no, I’m saving myself”

    That’s respect. Fucking around is precisely what she thinks of the chump she cons into marrying her.

    Marriage is for virgin girls. Ask any muslim.

    Marrying a slutted up woman in her thirties is some bizarre sick marxist scheme to destroy marriage itself.


  40. I can generally bounce around AOM and find some interesting tidbits to walk away with… But, what are your thoughts on this series? I’m linking part 3 of 3, but the other two entries are there to cloick to as well. And look at those comments below!


  41. […] lot has been made of Kevin Drum’s article on lead exposure and crime.  Much has also been made of research showing that boys and girls are entering puberty at earlier […]


  42. […] Science: The necessity of fathers. Related: Cads outbanging dads? […]


  43. I believe that avoiding ready-made foods is the first step to help lose weight. They might taste great, but ready-made foods contain very little vitamins and minerals, making you consume more simply to have enough vitality to get throughout the day. If you’re constantly having these foods, transitioning to grain and other complex carbohydrates will aid you to have more energy while ingesting less. Great blog post.