Alpha Delivery

In this post, I chided (chid?) a PUA newbie for unsuccessfully using a difficult and ponderous Brad P opener on a girl buddy I know, and by association criticized the opener as well. Thinking on it, I may have been a little unfair to Brad P and his game techniques. There is more — much more — to a good opener than the words that come out of your mouth.

YaReally offers up some detail:

[The Horse Opener] works for BradP because he delivers it well. He talks slow and deep and captures the chick’s attention, uses massive pauses in his delivery to build suspense, etc. But most guys who read it online just spit it out as fast as they can because they’re worried the girl will leave if they don’t get to the punchline as fast as possible, which sounds to the girl like he’s “all over the place”.

BradP does it in a challenging, accusing (breaking rapport) way. Guys trying to copy just based off his text do it in an approval seeking, needy way.

You can hear his delivery in his “The Underground Dating Seminar” which is one of the better “no fuzzy hats and black nailpolish” PUA products out there in my opinion. He actually sounds like a cool chill guy when he talks and you can see why the things he says work for him. One of his students asks “What if she calls you out on it?” “Doesn’t matter. If you’re like “Hey do you like horses?” and she goes “Isn’t that that BradP line–” “No shut up. DO you like horses?”” He expects them to fall in line, and that’s why it works for him.

Women don’t walk away when you have your subcommunications down and exude alpha behavior (like the vibe that you EXPECT them to listen to you and answer you). You can command “HEY! Come here.” from across a room and just stare the girl down like you expect her to come over, and she will. Same time you can run a 5 minute opener and blab away like Russell Brand. When your subcommunications are down you can do pretty much anything you want.

Don’t get caught up in “canned” VS “improvised” Hang around for long periods of time with any of the naturally social people you know and you’ll find they all repeat their same stories to people (sometimes even to you, forgetting that they’ve told you before) with the same wording, emphasis, etc. ie – canned routines. It’s not a bad thing. The trick is understanding that the routine isn’t magical, it’s what you’re displaying during the routine that affects things.

All good points. I haven’t seen video of BradP in action, but from what YaReally writes, I can easily picture the horse opener working very well for him. His delivery sounds alpha: slow, steady and deep with requisite pauses to build suspense and eradicate the girl’s initial impulse to pigeonhole him as just another low value beta. Newbies take note: merely mouthing the words isn’t nearly enough. Parroting an opener won’t even get you 10% of the way to successfully sparking attraction. You’ve got to work on the whole presentation, from style to posture to voice tone to alpha body language mimicry to the all-important take-it-or-leave-it attitude. Only when you’ve nailed the entire delivery can you truthfully judge which openers suck and which don’t.

The Chateau spends a lot of time discussing body language and voice tonality because the fact of the matter is that the nonverbal improvements in your game will redound to your pickup success a lot more than improvements to the actual words you spit. Like YaReally says, if your total game is tight, you can accost a girl with just about any silly line and she’ll come alive with interest.

But my issue with the Horse Opener had more to do with the idea of foisting it on unready newbs in unwelcoming circumstances. A (relatively) complex opener that requires rock-solid frame and nonverbal cues should not be the first thing with which neophytes engage the field, particularly the day game field where women are on the move. It’s setting them up for failure. What BradP can do with horses and negs, the majority of newbs cannot. It’d be best to teach these guys the right nonverbal cues with a much simpler opener that won’t have them straining to recall all the details or rushing to get the words out and then crashing and burning in DLV dorkhell.

A guy with little pickup (or female) experience will feel weird talking about horses with a random girl on the street. This is not the case for experienced womanizers, who have the self-confidence and comfortable familiarity with their skills that they don’t feel strange talking about things that would rattle mere mortals just trying hard not to sound like a social pariah.

YaReally continues:

You’re missing everything that’s going on in those “Simple Pickup” videos. (http://www.youtube.com/user/SimplePickup ) Those guys have studied pickup and use a ton of PUA concepts and routines.

What they have isn’t “pure bluster and confidence” and above average looks. There are a dozen subtle subcommunications going on in how they approach women that allow the random/offensive stuff they say to not just work but build attraction.

I won’t get into it all, study pickup literature, go out and approach girls, observe naturals, etc. like the rest of us had to but here are a few things to watch for in their vids:

– congruency. If a girl tests them, they stick to their story and turn things around on the girl like SHE’S the one being weird.

– misinterpretation. They misinterpret everything sexually, that’s why they can be talking about masturbation and 3-ways with girls they’ve only just met, they direct the conversation to a sexual topic in a smooth/funny way.

– frame control. After they say something super offensive, they’ll just stand there and stare the girl down like “ya, I said that.” totally unapologetic and unashamed. A PUA concept is “what you feel, she feels”, so she pings off him to see if he’s embarrassed or apologetic about what he said and when he’s not, she feels like it must be okay. This is why when you go up with an opener you don’t think will work, it won’t work, and when you think it will work, it works.

– breaking rapport. Their voice tonality is loud, clear, and authoritative. They make statements and accusations and don’t sound like they’re seeking the girl’s approval.

– body language. They stand up straight and don’t fidget around nervously and hold eye-contact etc.

There’s a ton of other stuff going on that you’ll see if you study pickup in-depth.

It has nothing to do with their looks, as long as you think that way you’re in the wrong headspace.

Based on YaReally’s checklist, I can easily imagine how the aspiring PUA in the failed Horse Opener attempt blew his shot.

Congruency —  Once she asked him a question about what he was getting at, he backed away from his initial boldness, and tried to explain himself. I bet he even sounded apologetic.

Misinterpretation — If anything, she was misinterpreting him.

Frame Control — As soon as she tossed that first “are you a weirdo?” look his way, I bet he got nervous and thought about bailing, thus ensuring that the remainder of his opener would come off even worse. (Once you’re committed to an opener, it’s surprisingly hard to break cadence for more fruitful pursuits. Call it the curse of the male mind.)

Breaking Rapport — She broke his rapport because his voice tonality was meek and trepidatious. If a girl is making statements and accusations, you know your game is failing. You want her to bounce off your statements and answer your accusations. From whence is love born!

Body Language — I bet he had his hands stuffed in his pockets, driving them deeper in his jeans when the opener began stinking.

I won’t bother putting looks in this list. Unless the guy was repulsively ugly, his looks or lack thereof had little to do with his failure. (The girl who relayed the story to me said nothing negative about his looks when I asked, which made me doubt it was anything more than his delivery which cost him a number close.) Men need to get it through their heads that women simply don’t react to a man’s physical attractiveness with the same urgency or lustfulness that men react to female beauty. A man with the right attitude and pickup technique will run rings around a socially clumsy or approval-seeking good-looking guy.





Comments


  1. on September 2, 2011 at 3:14 pm The Most Interesting Man in the World

    A girl tried this opener on me. He delivery was horrible but I still gave her my number.

    Liked by 1 person


  2. on September 2, 2011 at 3:15 pm The Most Interesting Man in the World

    her

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  3. Within the first few sentences of this, I was picturing Steve Carrel in 40 yearoldvirgin channeling David Caruso.

    frame control. After they say something super offensive, they’ll just stand there and stare the girl down like “ya, I said that.”

    yeah, you’ve noticed how some girls are more than willing to demonstrate that they’re not prudes?

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  4. I have a line I use that makes me come off as arrogant and narcissistic, but it works because I really believe what I am saying.

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  5. That’s the paradox of game. If you need it, it probably won’t work very well for you. If you can do it well, you probably don’t need it. If you can do this routine, you can probably get the same result by just talking to the girl.

    [Heartiste: I’m sure the horse opener has some merit on its own, even for a veteran like bradp. Maybe he discovered that he gets better responses with this than with “hi”. Like any self-improvement pursuit, you’ll only get experience through practice. And body language and tonality can be learned just as much as canned openers.]

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    • It all builds on itself. Inner game boosts outer game because you can deliver lines better, “outer game” boosts inner game by giving you some tricks to get some easier laughs and maybe bed some easier girls.

      It’s only a paradox if you could never build one without the other…but I can pick up a book and learn some “outer game” lines.

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    • Horse Girl builds way more attraction than most openers because it actively goads the girl into shit-testing him and lets him display his alphaness. There are a lot of deep concepts fused into that opener that most guys reading can’t see because they’re still reading the surface level words and don’t really understand how attraction works…yet. 🙂

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      • I guess it depends on the overall strategy. I almost never use openers of this type. More like a very innocent banter at the start, though sometimes filtered through NLP patterns if I think there may be a bit of resistance. It is not perceived as a pickup line or an assortment of them. That sort of eliminates shit-testing as the subject wench has no idea what is going on. With bitch shield down, it’s easy to sneak in through backdoor via tonality of my voice, absolutely unintentional kino (it looks innocent and accidental enough) and overall poise. The moment the chick mounts some mild version of a shit-test almost as an afterthought, I already know the deed is done and a hindbrain decision’s made. She thinks that I did not hit on her, just the opposite, she fees the urge to hit on me. I become “must have”.

        There is a problem with this strategy regarding LTR considerations. As if the chick realizing that there was no meaningful shit-testing done, she goes into an overdrive later (a few days or a week after the first lay) and does not know when to stop. It took me quite a while to find a way how to deal with it. Years, in fact.

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  6. I believe that women are ONLY attracted to a man’s physicality, not his “beauty,” but the way he exists.. his “soul” or whatever. The way he moves and holds himself.. this body language is the only thing that really matters.

    Even in still photos, you can see when someone is present.

    The words don’t matter if you don’t have this basic thing down. You need to be present.

    It’s kind of like listening to well a performed song in another language.. if the singer is present, you can still have a strong emotional reaction even though you can’t understand what is being said. Girls hear things first on an emotional level and will not hear your lines if you aren’t alive in this way.

    The actual text of most conversations doesn’t matter. It’s the big mistakes and the really good stuff that can make a difference.

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    • yep. it’s why i can have the dumbest conversations and get laid.

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      • Try not to have any conversation at all. That was my favored strategy at parties when I was in my early twenties. I suppose I irritated my friends a bit, they simply couldn’t make any sense of it. I admit that I did not ponder about it, it worked, what’s to ponder about. One funny moment, my nerd friend was explaining this cute chick something, maybe unary algebra, he was really smart. The thing was, I liked the chick. I approached the chick, extended my hand, she reciprocated, I lifted her up and we located the nearest bedroom and we fucked. Later we returned to the large room where everyone was and I noticed the sour grapes look on my friend’s face. Asked him what’s the problem. “I wanted her”. I replied: “Well, I thought you just wanted to share your brilliance, why didn’t you just do what I did”?

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  7. on September 2, 2011 at 4:41 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    “Thinking on it, I may have been a little unfair to Brad P and his game techniques. There is more — much more — to a good opener than the words that come out of your mouth.”

    lzozozoozozlzlzl yah there is the 1) lotsa cocka that comes outta yer zipper zolzlzlzlzlzl

    and even more imprrirtant than the words that come oout of your mouth is the cockas dat come out of her mouth all of them beloming to u as the cokca goes in and out and in and out an din and out and in and out zlzoolzlzlzl

    i remember oneece time i was brekaing up with this girrllrlr as i had ridedn for a ocuple monts every which way and noew she wa sin that flrirthing iwth other guys phsse hjust to get a ris eout of my bored ass and my boreed cockas lzozlzozlzl bored coka bored lostas cockcas lzozlzlzl

    so i tell her “listen i don’t approve of you derresisng like taht and going clubbing if we are going to be an item.” (i knew she would have a hissy fit and dress that way anyways so then i could go ahead and blame the breakup on her and say that she was pumping and dupnibg ime and not interested in geting serious zlzolzlz), and she goes, “you know what? i’m no dummy. i know that your hjust sayoing that so you can blame the breakup on me and say i’m the one who sin’t intereted in getting serious.”

    checkmate! she checkmted me!

    but being the GBFM, i looked her in my eye and i said, “i know you’re no dummy. i’ve seen losta smart things come out of that mouht, like my losta cokas zlzozllzlzoz pwed!!! “”

    she stormed out and i never saw her again lzozlzz until i was out one night ad she looked like sinead o’connor after eating her pain in donuts zlozozooozoo

    true st9ry

    noboydy fuck with da gbfm lzolzlz

    Like


  8. on September 2, 2011 at 4:47 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    ON SUNDAY theis sunday the preacher asked the GBFM to give the SERMON!!!! so i came up with a short one and a long one.

    let me knows which you like betterzlozzl!

    the first short one is, “o lord let us forgive all the future spinsters in these pwews who have given freely of their gins holes and buttholes an igina cockaing and assockcing sessions, yes oh lord. let us forgive the womenz who have had three kids out of wedlock with three basddanssbasses iwth tatoots drug habits and no jobs, let isus bles them all and hope they find a good beta here and prey they find a goddodod beta to mary and assrape in dirvocre court so they can furth fund their asscokcing sessions with tattoo artsist as the neoccns addicted them to butthex butthexual activities at an early age. amen.”

    lzozozlzl how do you think t that will go down? teh chrurch is fairly consertaive so do not worry i will wear a time tie! zlzozozlllzoo

    and here is my longer church sermone for sunday:

    o lord, blessed are assocked for they know not what they do and theta teh neocns are scfetertly taiping it to selsls vicaomc boosk zlozllzlzozolz.

    i luvs you allls o ye of little faith

    cum gather round the gbfm the great gbfm

    blessed are the assocked for they shal inherit the bigger butthosles stertehced lzozllozolzlzlzl

    to all the spinsters with cats
    who teh fed tricked into spinsterhood/serving debt lxolllozlzl
    to all the fanboys in ther single mom’s basements
    whose dads they never knew because the fed tookawy fatehrhood lzozlzl
    to all the broken familes
    who were split up by the need to make two salaries to feed the kids
    to all aging necon womenz celeberating secretive tapings of butthex without teh girlths conthent lzozllzlzozlzl they tircked you too
    to all the spinster chix again i am sorry they sdesouled you
    in asscokcing sessins drugged you up on prozac
    told you to abort your kids no wonder your’re d[pressed and all fucjked up no lozlzlzlzling here
    my heart goes out to you while tucker max & goldman sax laugh zlzolzlzl
    too all the aborted fetushes we ask for forgiveness we deserve not and to all those tricked into aborting the gift of life lzozllzllzl we forgive u too and pray for teh fethuses, but not in school as prayer is illegal in school lozlzllzlz
    to all those inthe rising genertaion who will have to pay off their parents cultural and monetary debts lzozlz war isn’t fun but it’s part of teh fed’s fiat bubble cycle lzozlzllz so like after th e country goes bust the war starts in the ultimate pump and udmp scheme you thought enron/worldcom/fannae mae was bad lolzozlzlz just you wait lzozlzlll i hope not and ai pray for peace lozlzlz maybe we can all learn to live and get along but i think we would have to start with truth and nobility and honor and ocurage and virtue and not with fiat debt and butthex lozlzlzl that’s just nmy gues from reading heroduts and the great boooks and classis in greek and latin zlzolzllzlzl

    and the bible too about sodom and gomorroah did yuknow taht sodomycame form sodom and gonnoreah came from gommroah? lzozllz kidding about that second one i doubt it did but maybe who knows i have never had eitehr sodomy nor gonorreah and i ahve never been to sodom nor gomoorrah

    sodom must;ve been a funny place lzolzlozolllzzll and a crazy party or two and the editor in chiefstress priscilla painton at simon and schuster would have fit right in publishing tucker max’s books yah i betin gmorrah they had a tower of babel with the ofices of simon and schuster at the top across the hall form the fed lzozlzlzllzlzlzlzllzlzlz

    sometimes i wonder if poets and prophets can still change the world?

    or have they trainde too, too many women to hate, and dumbed down and drugged up too many menz? have they destoryed too many fathers and killed to many families? have the y deocnstructed tyoo many books and spilled too much blood and aborted too many fetuthes as one is one too many. have they prescribed ritalin to too many cretaive sols in chool in prozac to too many who need to be depressed and face it when they abort fetuses as god gave us feelings and makes us not pay attention to boring stae corproate teachers as all creativity comes from not paying attention to the state lzozlzzll and now it is diagnoses as a diseas lzozlzlz.

    lozlzlzzlzl

    well juust wanted to say i luv u all and nice 2 know ya and welcomes abords lzozlzl

    and 2 asnwer my own above questions
    let me jsut say
    teh great books
    wouldn’t be great
    if they weren’t immortal
    and they offer us redemption
    the moment we start living by tehir ideasl
    and epic higher stories
    so put down your hate and your secretive butthex tape
    and pick up a cross
    and come follow me
    and let me shoulderyour burden
    for my yoke is light
    dante wrote la vita nuova–the new life
    and it is time 4 u to find your new life
    for to loseth one’s old way is to fuind the new path
    so do not fear
    lozlzlzlzlzlz omg wtf am i saying lzozlzlz
    i almost blew my cover here as teh messiah lzozlzllll i hide it beind all my lzozlzllzlzlzlzlzlzlles but a couple of you ahve caught on lzozlzlzlzllzlzl

    Like


  9. on September 2, 2011 at 4:52 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    it’s friday firdy!!!!!!

    Like


  10. on September 2, 2011 at 4:53 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    IT’S FRIDAYAAYAYAYYAYA! !LOZZOOZOZO L!!!! FRIIDDYAYAYAY!!!!

    Like


  11. on September 2, 2011 at 4:57 pm greatbooksformen GBFM

    ^^^^ guess which dadndincing chicck i hooked up wthi in the above video? lzozlzlz

    i shitss u not! zlzoozlzolz

    Like


    • (Sorry, i wasn’t going to post in this thread but i couldn’t resist!)

      WTF? That is the most revolting, repulsive, regurgitating, regressive, remourseful, ridiculous, thing I can ever see a man doing. What is this world coming to?

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      • Neecy,

        I’m not clicking that link … too scared to (since I can’t unsee it and I’m taking Stingray’s advice since I value my eyes), but I had to say that I do love your use of alliteration there–6 “r’s” in a row. Very good.

        Good-looking profile pic, too.

        Not in the mood for negs right now, just legitimate compliments–not that that works on women unless you’re tall, dark, and handsome (and charming).

        Now, back to regularly scheduled programming…

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      • somebody tell me this dude ain’t srs
        he just can’t be

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      • What’s a srs? Saturation R syndrome?

        I see. you mean serious, like ancient egyptians… skipping the unwieldy vowels…

        Well I have a pet (no pun intended) theory, while women have a hamster, some men have a ferret. His is particularly wired for R-alliterations. If she doubled the load, he’d surely come. (I’d recommend latinas, they really have that R phonically down pat).

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      • I think it means a sex change operation. If this peaks your curiosity, even a little bit, you still do not want to click on that link. Trust me.

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      • I know, I just couldn’t miss the opportunity, due to chaining, to comment on Capsaicin’s slobbering all over Neecy.

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      • Ahh crap, sorry. It’s been a long day and I missed it. I saw “what’s srs?” and I answered. I guess I should read the whole post first, huh?

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      • No big, some slack cut.

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      • HI CAPS!

        Thank you for the compliments! 🙂 and don’t feel bad about the negging thing, any girl that has spent enough time in the Chateau already knows what they are all about anyway 😉 Oh yeah, Since I’ve already discovered I’m an alien of a woman these days, I’ll just say this about the tall dark and handsome comment you wrote: A woman that is very old school / traditional will always be flattered by a good natured compliment coming from a man whether he is “tall, dark, and handsome” or not. And BTW tall dark and handsome is not the standard for male attractiveness for all women – just an FYI 😉 Hope you had a great weekend!

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    • Men, if you value your eyes, do not click on this link.

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      • it looked more uncomfortable than repulsive, though it was pretty damn repulsive. where did hisdoorknocker go? not comfy, all bunched up like an accordion.
        real men wear boxers, btw. give me land, lots of land, the open range, with room for my rifle, space for my spear, air for my aerolingus.

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      • “where did hisdoorknocker go?”

        I wondered about this for a moment too, then decided that I really didn’t want to know (or think about it any more).

        And yes, boxers are superior.

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  12. on September 2, 2011 at 5:19 pm Beta and proud

    The best opener, full of old world charm: Send over a bottle of champagne.

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    • Right. Do that. While I and her will appreciatively drink it in between her moaning and screaming “oh yea, more, more!”

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      • Beta Vs. Omega. Cadnerd’s gonna nail her on his Zimmer frame.

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      • You don’t get the basic concept: It’s them wenches that ultimately decide who’s alpha or not. You can genuflect beta and omega as much as you want, but that does not guarantee you any poon.

        In my previous quip, replace me with anyone. That’s what’s coming to this guy, it’s just a matter of time. He just doesn’t know it and even if he did, he’d go through hoops to rationalize that it’s not true.

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      • on September 2, 2011 at 6:08 pm Grammar Police

        she and I…

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      • Thanks, appreciate the errata. But being a bit of a selfish sumfabitch, it’d be “I and she”.

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      • on September 2, 2011 at 6:41 pm Grammar Police

        Good point. Carry on.

        Like


    • Nah, a bottle of champagne is too cheap for such wonderful creatures.
      Instead, at a restaurant, call the waiter, hand him a box with a blank cheque and a strap-on in it (you should always carry that box when you sarge), show him your soulmate, and right when she receives the box and looks at you with her sparkling eyes, assume the doggy position and make a come-here with your delicate beta fingers.
      Now go do it, you can thank me later.

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  13. The “what you feel, she feels” concept is pure gold. I already read about about it, but never gave it much thought, until now. It seems like a powerful guideline. I don’t know if it can be field-tested, but i’m gonna try.

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  14. I’d say alpha sub communication (body language, tonality etc.) is 95% of game by itself. Alphas can get away with almost anything because its not so much what you do but how you do it. A alpha holding the door for someone is saying hurry up and come through and quit wasting my time when I’m doing you a favor. A beta doing this is saying youre better than me and I was meant to serve you. These messages are sent subconsciously through body language.

    I also notice alphas arent tryhard and do what they want with no shame even if it wont make them fit in. If a alpha wants to wear a pink shirt he will do so without shame. If you make fun of him youre the one who will look stupid as you get no reaction from him and will not be able to make him crack under social pressure. Seems more like social norms, fads, etc. were made for betas by betas and alphas break them if they want without loss of social status because of their rock solid frame. A beta cant get away with this because his body language betrays hes not confident in breaking the social norm. .

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    • This is why a woman can tell whether or not she is attracted in less than 3 minutes. A woman can read these signs extremely quickly and often doesn’t need context to do it.

      Obviously, it is far harder to do, but just by reading a decent amount of posts here I think I could do a decent job picking out which guys are alpha and which are not. Even in the way they write, an alpha will stand out.

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      • Thought you would be too busy with your marksmanship career.

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      • For example, Mongrel, I can tell you that it is not alpha to follow a girl around simply because she proved something you believed about her to be false.

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      • true. alphas don’t chase, unless its to be funny. there is something hysterically funny about seeing a girl who hates your guts, turning towards her, and saying, “geez, stop following me around, will ya? what are you, a stalker or something?”

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      • “A woman can read these signs extremely quickly and often doesn’t need context to do it.”

        No, it’s all context. Context is simply the environment and subcommunication. Women read the situation and man without needing the *content* of what’s said, meaning she can read the a man even if he’s reciting the alphabet.

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      • Yep, thanks. You’re right. Poor choice of words on my part.

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    • Agree with @Blajard (and with our host on the post above): With the right body language and tonality, you could recite the alphabet as a pick-up line, and it would work. No amount of words can substitute for the correct body language and tone of voice.

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    • Ya. An alpha and a beta walk into a bar wearing ridiculous fuzzy hats. People make fun of both of them to their faces.

      The beta feels dumb and makes excuses for wearing his hat and ends up taking it off later in the night because he’s embarrassed.

      The alpha laughs and feels bad for anyone who makes fun of his hat because they obviously don’t understand how awesome it is, the poor fuckers.

      Peacocking, negs, Horse Girl openers, etc. are all just ways of goading girls into shit-testing you so you can demonstrate that their shit-tests don’t phase you, which is what builds attraction (if you don’t fail her shit-test, you probably don’t fail the rest of the world’s shit-tests). If you’re a nice guy, you don’t get shit-tested, so you don’t get to demonstrate whether they’ll fluster you or not, so you don’t build attraction and stand there wondering why the asshole keeps getting the girl.

      Once you fully understand this concept, pickup becomes a lot less complicated. …and a lot more fun. 🙂

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  15. just talk to them, for chrissakes. they stand around like little kids in line at dairy queen waiting for a man to just f’ing talk to them.

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  16. Beta and Proud.

    Fuck off.

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  17. I think it’s like anything else in life, the newer you are, the simpler things should be.

    It’s akin to a rookie quarterback in the NFL. In his first game you want to keep everything as simple as possible, limit the plays, run as many times as you can.

    When he becomes a seasoned vet then you make it more complex, you make things as creative as you can, and let him improvise as much as you can.

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  18. on September 2, 2011 at 7:42 pm Beta and Proud

    All I have done is to come here with advice. It’s worked so well for me, and I think it could help you all too. Rather than pessimism and cynicism, I offer you hope. I am marrying a truly beautiful (and late-20s) woman next year. You might laugh and scoff, but I know she wouldn’t stray. I trust her. She trusts Me. She’s tired of players – and I’m glad she’s grown out of her wild past.

    As for the commenters’ who’ve made nasty remarks: She wouldn’t spare a second glance on any of you: Because she could see the meanness in your hearts.

    When you talk about Game, you make something so simple so complicated.
    So I’ll tell you what you’re all overlooking. Listen.

    Women need love and respect. Even the most beautiful are sometimes vulnerable, and need a little support. They don’t need negs – they need to be loved. And for the man who is prepared for this, many, many doors will open.

    So drop the teenage-girl-like games, and be yourselves. And prepare to be amazed. As a Great Man said, Yes We Can.

    Like


    • Obamunist Obot, we’ll cherish your advice. Now, please focus on your sweetheart, lest she starts kwetching that you are not paying proper attention to her. Buh-bye and good luck, you’ll need it.

      Like


      • on September 2, 2011 at 8:05 pm Beta and Proud

        Cadnerd, I’m the luckiest of men. I have a beautiful young woman who loves me. I just showed her your comment about the champagne – she laughed heartily. She said that players aren’t as polished as they used to be. (She’s outgrown players).

        She is funny. She has a sense of humour. I have her. The ring on her finger is my seal.

        What do you have? Listen. Learn.

        Like


      • 5 young women (younger than yours, 19 to 25 range) all beautiful, funny and loving. I’m quite content with my serail. Once a while, I am being a nicey guy, too.

        To each their own, I guess.

        Like


      • Cadnerd,

        you have 5 lovers aged 19-25? And you’re about 50 aren’t you? How is this even possible???

        Like


      • I’m 57, but look a bit youger, maybe 10 years younger and I must have some internal viagra production, genes I guess.

        More than 2 years ago, I would likely ask the same question. In my mind I had this idea that I could get 35 yo at best. And then a happy accident happened. A 24 yo woman saw something in me. I had no idea what, to tell you the truth. I realized that there is no boundary but in my own mind. I started thinking in “what if” terms. Then a social proof worked its way. It was quite a steep learning curve, but with some initial fumbling, after I got a second LTR going, the “what if” kicked in and I set myself for 5. That is about the limit, managing more may be too complicated. I may go down to 3, in a couple of years. I don’t know yet.

        Like


      • Cadnerd,

        “and I must have some internal viagra production, genes I guess.”

        Haha. You think this is enough for a young girl to give her body to an old man? So what can you offer besides your erection?

        Btw, how is it possible to have 5 girlfriends simultaneously – do they know for each other and are OK with that?!?!

        Like


      • What is this “old body” stuff? Despite some wear and tear I keep it in a good shape and many 35yo’s would be glad to have it. I mentioned my equipment because that is the first thing people usually ask.

        Else, I’ll ask them, it’s puzzle to me. Heh, half kidding.
        It’s a bit like amongst blind, the one-eyed is the king. Their complain: a lotta boyz & gays and effeminates but a dearth of men. I am easy going, warm, yet firm. Teaching them valuable life skills. Making them giggle. That kind of stuff.

        Of course they know of each other. All voluntary, they know the rules before getting on board. It wouldn’t work otherwise. Two of them are very good friends, in the femalian sense of the term.

        Like


      • Cadnerd,

        OK, but aren’t they in love with you? Don’t they love you? How is it still possible then that they agree with you having so many other lovers? Also, if they love you – what are you going to do when you’ll have to break up with them? Won’t you feel guilty?

        Like


      • “Don’t they love you?”

        The question you’re really asking is “don’t they feel entitled to exclusivity”?
        No. Once each of them went through an initial period when they may have felt the urge to possess exclusively, they realized that I’m not a zero sum game.

        “what are you going to do when you’ll have to break up with them? Won’t you feel guilty?”

        The pre-LTR agreement is that at their 26th birthday, the LTR dissolves. They know it, I know it. They need to move on. The main reason is that in my view, they should be thinking then about family, not that I’d think they may be getting closer to a wall. The sexual aspect ends. It’s a mutual breakup. They can still call on me if hey need help, a company and such, provided that I’ve got free time. The first one is already past the breakup, and we do see each other once a while as friends. She’s got a BF about a month ago, a decent guy, based on what she conveyed.

        Why would I feel guilty? A guilt is a result of breaking rules or conventions. That is not the case here.

        Like


      • “The pre-LTR agreement is that at their 26th birthday, the LTR dissolves.”

        So at some date you stop loving her and she stops loving you? That’s impossible … Unless there was no love. Are you sure you’re not paying them for sex?

        “Why would I feel guilty? A guilt is a result of breaking rules or conventions. That is not the case here.”

        I would feel guilty for breaking someone’s heart. It’s so cruel to throw people away like that …

        Like


      • Cadnerd,

        “Why would I feel guilty? A guilt is a result of breaking rules or conventions. That is not the case here.”

        I would feel guilty for breaking someone’s heart. I don’t understand how can you stop loving someone at a certain date?!

        Like


      • I would feel guilty for breaking someone’s heart.

        What if you don’t break hearts. The sunset cause works its miracles.

        I don’t understand how can you stop loving someone at a certain date?!

        One doesn’t. The relationship shifts into another form.

        Like


      • Cadnerd,

        Why would a young girl decide to offer sex (you said there’s no love!) to some granddad for free? Are you sure you’re not paying them for sex?

        Like


      • you said there’s no love!>

        Never said that. Quit putting words in my mouth an reinterpreting me.

        Like


      • Good thing she out earns you, you’re all set bro,

        Like


      • on September 2, 2011 at 9:43 pm Beta and Proud

        Yes, in my own way, I am quite the player!

        Like


      • Except that little mistake posting as Mexican Pete one minute after B&P comment, with the same content. Maybe on purpose, though, testing whether people are paying attention, I reckon.

        Funny… that last sentence about sock puppetry.

        Like


    • So basically you feel like youre on top of the world because a women finally settled for you after she was smashed by plenty of alpha cock. Did you ever think that maybe most men simply dont want a worn out woman who finally settled because she failed to snag a alpha? You look down on us for trying to be like the players who got to have fun with your women for free when she was 19. If youre so happy being beta, forgiving her for her wild past, and paying for her for the rest of your life, why not let us fellas who want to rise above that be?

      Like


    • Reading your initial comment, I was genuinely unsure as to whether it was satire mocking brainwashed chivalrous males or whether you were serious. I guess now you are probably serious.

      Like


    • lol

      “she’s tired of players”

      enjoy your sloppy 32nds

      and enjoy paying for something 32 other guys got for free
      and tighter and lighter

      Like


  19. Cadnerd,

    You’re not living in South East Asia, by any chance are you?

    Because building a harem there isn’t much of an achievement.

    Like


    • Canuckistan.

      Like


    • Building a harem anywhere isn’t much of an achievement, if you go for low hanging fruit.

      Building a harem anywhere is an achievement, if you don’t go for low hanging fruit.

      There is no place on earth where all girls are low hanging fruit.

      Like


  20. Not bad going then.

    Like


  21. Not born yesterday, I’ve been around.

    Like


  22. I believe you would use ‘chide’ in this instance.

    Like


  23. Beta and Proud.

    Why’re you here, troll?

    Like


  24. Recent Example for me…girl I’m gaming…I’m dancing with her…her skin tight dress starts to hike up her thigh.

    Me: In low tone with sly smile…”Seems to be doing that by itself…Good to know…”

    Her: pause…wide eye…starts laughing

    Weak delivery would make that line sound lame

    Like


  25. i like how on this blog, the comments are as useful as the post. Except this thread..

    Like


  26. A significant yet often overlooked aspect of game is Logistics.

    Having a place that you can take a woman back to that is;

    – reasonably clean and tidy
    – reasonably close by (less than about 40 min by car)
    – transport (car)

    Like


  27. Excellent post.

    Non verbal communication (appearance, voice tonality/inflection, body language) is essential to being alpha and consistently meeting/attracting/seducing hot women.

    Good resources:
    *Body Language Secrets, R. Don Steele
    *Reading People, Jo-Ellan Dimitrius
    *http://www.fastseduction.com/guide/02_How_to_Get_Started/bodylanguage.shtml
    (The above link is an awesome quick reference guide)

    When at bar/club night venue, notice how all the beta schlubs will keep their glass up by their chest and take a sip and nod like fool after anything the chic says. Totally communicates betaness. Wouldn’t matter how good looking the guy was or what the content of the conversation was…it’s gunna be a short exchange.

    When in a comfortable, relaxed state, projecting a solid frame and alpha non verbal…’what’ you say is just food for her front brain to chew on; while your sub-communication is dropping the love hammer up her hind brain mud trail.

    I believe it was another recent post here at CH, yet a great suggestion. It went something like: “Stare laser focused at one of her eyes and while she is talking imagine yourself pounding her wet hole up against the wall…” err something like that…

    @Beta and Proud: BEAT IT NERD!

    Like


  28. The obvious thing then is to keep things as simple as possible and act as you imagine you would if you were having tons of success already.

    Like


  29. The SimplePickup routines don’t seem to coincide with the advice seen on here…

    Like


  30. Why are people bashing or judging somethng based on ONE guy’s results?

    Maybe it was his first time talking to a girl. Maybe he’s an idiot. Maybe he dresses like shit. Maybe he dresses like everyone else. Maybe she’s a total prude who wouldn’t have responded to anyone. etc.

    Like


  31. “But my issue with the Horse Opener had more to do with the idea of foisting it on unready newbs in unwelcoming circumstances.”

    It’s not supposed to be for total newbies, but that particular opener is BradP’s big claim to fame so it’s been spread around like crazy and newbies stumble onto it thinking it’s a magic opener the way a child stumbles onto his dad’s gun and plays with it because it wasn’t locked up. That same child will be able to handle the gun properly when it grows up.

    “It’d be best to teach these guys the right nonverbal cues with a much simpler opener that won’t have them straining to recall all the details or rushing to get the words out and then crashing and burning in DLV dorkhell.”

    That’s the direction the PUA community is heading now, focus on the internals and subcommunication instead of the externals. The external method still works and gets you to the same place, it’s just a lot more mental work to memorize a long opener than to go in with the advice of “just be cool”.

    Two things to consider with long complicated openers though:

    1) It gives you a ton of reference points to improve on. Horse Guy in that gym story can go back home and say “ok I lost her after this part of the story, what did I do there that BradP doesn’t do? Oh, okay, I was rushing it, next time I’ll make a mental note to slow it down…why does slowing down make a difference anyway?” and study that. Or if he runs the opener twice and one time it goes over awesome and the next it bombs he can look at it and go “I said the EXACT same words both times, but the results were way different…so what was I doing, thinking, feeling, speaking, etc. that was different between the two times because THAT’S where I should be focusing.

    2) New guys tend to over-think. Often they’re computer nerds. As they’re talking to a girl they’re over-thinking everything and talking themselves out of continuing. Giving them something to occupy their brain keeps them from doubting themselves because they’re thinking “trust the opener, just keep talking, the punchline is coming” and they stick in a little longer than they would have if they were just going up and saying “Hi……..umm…” and they learn to deal with a little social pressure, they learn girls aren’t super scary and getting shot down isn’t a big deal, etc.

    I think these days guys are looking for a quick guaranteed move where they can leap out of the shadows, say a magic line, have it work on the first go, and get the girl, but that’s like trying to become a boxer without taking a few punches in the ring on your way.

    “Based on YaReally’s checklist, I can easily imagine how the aspiring PUA in the failed Horse Opener attempt blew his shot.”

    Yep. You nailed them all. The girl in the story will just see him as “scattered” or “weird” and only remembers the vibe of the interaction, not the details of what he was saying, because his subcommunications were fucking him up from the start and drowning out anything he was saying. But when you know what to look for, even just from her description of the interaction you can tell where the guy went wrong and form a pretty accurate visual of how it probably went down.

    Hot girls have amazing frame control, they develop it because the world works differently for them while they’re young and hot:

    Same way the former high school jock who was always good with girls has amazing frame control:



    Your chick-friend had better frame control than the guy approaching her, and she would never be able to articulate that because she didn’t consciously develop it.

    Like


    • Good post. I agree there is much learning value when reflecting upon a failed long opener, and even more value in comparison with a successful long opener.

      “I think these days guys are looking for a quick guaranteed move where they can leap out of the shadows, say a magic line, have it work on the first go, and get the girl, but that’s like trying to become a boxer without taking a few punches in the ring on your way.”

      In my view there always was and there will always be instant gratification seekers. I see it as a sign of general ignorance, immaturity and poor learning skills. Setting the instant gratification frame on almost anything is recipe for dissapointment. One must roll with the punches before being able to throw some good ones.

      “Hot girls have amazing frame control, they develop it because the world works differently for them while they’re young and hot:”

      So true. 2 things:
      1) So gratifying when you topple over their frame with your dominant frame. Sometimes it just takes a swift and simple verbal ninja kick: DHV/pedestal remove combo. After reciept of a hot chic snubb I always like this response: [pregnant pause/stare down,turn head to her friend and point to target “she always like this?…what did you feed her before you guys came out?” Sometimes all you need is the first part. Credit to Mystery on this one (first part).
      2)when you encounter a past-their-prime hot girl and they try the same attitude, then you ninja kick their pedestal and watch them fall on the floor and ooze around in approval seek mode. They fall pretty hard.

      Like


    • No Kenny Powers mention should go without referencing his latest job:

      Respect The Alpha Mullet.

      Like


  32. A Pretty College Girl talks about race 🙂

    Like


  33. Men need to get it through their heads that women simply don’t react to a man’s physical attractiveness with the same urgency or lustfulness that men react to female beauty
    ^ true women aren’t as shallow as men and aren’t so fixated on youth/beauty but that doesn’t mean most don’t react the same to an ttracive peron.

    lol at guys getting called out on pua I love to call guys out on it quite funny to see their ego take a huge beating

    Like


  34. as much as people crow on here about physical looks not mattering, my experience has been very different. i just lost 40lbs and am now in the best shape of my life after a total 6 month transformation. i now have 7’s and 8’s give me STRONG IOI’s everywhere i go and opening me in many situations. i am throwing away #s of cute girls 10 years my junior (im early 30s). this never happened before. most of my gfs have been in the 6 range so ive basically seen the chicks i can get jump up 2 points.

    luckily, i was born with some natural game due to my father’s genes and my upbringing. ive also devoured this blog over the last couple years which if you are a naturally abstract thinker is perfect..that said, body language is HUGE. i do yoga and salsa dancing and this allows for my movements to be fluid and yet composed at the same time. i notice that chicks notice this inner stillness when im just sitting in class and they notice how slow and fluid my movements are when i walk and they are definitely taken in by it.

    maybe my body transformation gave me more inner game. regardless, full body transformations in my experience especially if they go for what i did ( Michalengelo’s David proportion aka Da Vinci’s golden ratio of 1.6) then you will attract women from all walks of life. women are biologically and culturally programmed to respond to those proportions. also everyone here likes to talk about the cost/benefit ratio, well, in my view the actual time spent in the gym versus the dramatic change in every single facet of my life, getting into shape has been a no brainer.

    Like


    • on September 4, 2011 at 2:50 pm Obstinance Works

      Yeah looks and The Look in your eyes matters, just like money, just like power, just like badassness, just like fame. But you try to act like a pussy and look “good” and see where that gets you.. You are also in your sexual prime @ 30 and admit to a knowledge of game, so too many factors to prove it over others.

      How did you lose weight? Inquiring minds want to know.

      Like


  35. “I came, I saw, I conquered [the poon]”

    Don’t be timid with your delivery people. Own the show. Cowards die many times before their actual deaths- choose not to be a coward in the realm of pickup.

    Like


  36. Hey , how do you feel about the SimplePickup guys?

    http://www.youtube.com/user/SimplePickup

    They seem to rock a very goofy laid back approach.

    Like


    • Nickelodeon for pu.

      Like


    • They are certainly entertaining to watch- I spent a couple of hours watching all their videos yesterday, just for laughs.

      However, it’s impossible to tell how many of the girls in question give false numbers, or just give their number and never reply.

      One thing is for certain though: they have mad confidence. Well at least the white guy and Kong, the asian dude, have a lot of confidence. The Indian looking guy often appears quite nervous and taken aback, in my opinion.

      Like


    • Interesting, but he talks like a sated lion who is ready to make unnecessary concessions.
      Negs are necessary when the bitch shield is radioactive. But otherwise, he’s right, teasing is enough.

      Like


    • on September 4, 2011 at 2:42 pm Obstinance Works

      Don’t neg for no reason.

      Like


    • Disagree. A neg is not a fashion article. As if ‘so many guys are doing it these days’ that women will recognize it and respond “omg, is that a neg?, that’s so 2004 pua tactic…omg.”

      The challenge with a neg is really within the gamer himself and his application of it.
      1) Having the frame that you need to bring her value ‘down’ to yours by negging is not helpful. Rather, as stated above, have an objective. Sometimes a quick neg jab to the ribs is necessary so you can disarm her (IOD,disqualify yourself as hitting on her, etc.) and have a positive exchange.
      2) A neg is not an insult.
      3) The proper response to a neg is laughter.

      I think the notion that you ‘have to neg with every exchange’ is what’s outdated. Sometimes they are just not needed.

      Like


  37. another example of Alpha Delivery I used today in gaming girl…

    Me: Come Tuesday, I’m leaving Wednesday..

    Her: Pausing…where you going?

    Me: away. see you then.

    Will advise if she shows up or flakes but am sure she’ll be where is suggested she meet up with me.

    Like


    • Update: She came out. We hung out. She sat with me, worked on the “Comfort” stage, asking questions.

      At one point I asked her to dance, she declined.

      Me; Boring

      Her; qualifying herself. “Not boring just tired…”

      We discussed travel, places we’d been to, fashion, and she was leaning into me as we sat there.

      So…Alpha delivery then comfort….

      Like


  38. Request

    I beseech Chateau Heartiste to write a book (or perhaps various volumes of books concerning game). Imagine not only the millions of relationships and marriages you could help but the money that you would make. I would very much appreciate your input.

    Like


    • Had this thought myself.

      On one hand it’d be an amazing encyclopedia of knowledge and a reading I would buy in hardback.

      On the otherhand I feel it would devalue CH and pigeon hole him into just another PUA derivative now pushing a commercial angle.

      Kinda like this dude: http://www.practicalpickup.com while there is much good info he writes, I always cringe at the auto generated footer at the bottom of his posts when it says: “if you found this post helpful, then buy my book blah blah…”

      However admittedly, if CH published a book, fuck ya I’d buy it…as opposed to torrenting it…

      Like


  39. on September 4, 2011 at 2:34 pm Obstinance Works

    This post is gold.

    Aspiring PUAs just have to enjoy agitation and challenging women and their responses. It’s just a damn game, so fuck it. Have fun. You’re just a greasy balls salesman trying to get your stick waxed.

    One other factor is the venue. If you in a conservative situation, say at church or work, you need to fly under the radar and be subtle as fuck. No sexual stories or kino. I think kino is overplayed a lot. I’m getting women to kino me first now a lot more. You have to use your eyes looking in her eyes and at her lips. Don’t have to always smile of course, but it’s kind of like a “pull” technique to approve by smiling or verbally saying like “well done.” Just use your ‘magination and stand there like The Man. Johny Drama body language. Bitch you know you want what’s on my mind and all that.

    It depends on you of course, that’s why you have punch the walls until you know what works for you. You have to take those risks until you know the limits. Just be a man about it. You don’t have to be a pink shirt dipspit. Wear all black or whatever you want. It doesn’t matter as long as you like your style. I was pmpn a red DC shirt with matching soft-texture shorts and some all-black skate shoes. Just find your identity then pmp it with alpha body language. You don’t have to be silly, just in control of the flow.

    Like


  40. on September 4, 2011 at 7:20 pm Dead Eyed Dick

    Negs work. Savoy is a wise man but I think his downgrading of negs is an attempt to separate his new LoveSystems material from the Mysterymethod.

    Personally, his book is very well done apart from this baffling rejection of an important tool

    Like


  41. Maybe Heartiste will realise what a great idea writing a book is when someone else steals all the ideas/material, writes a book and cashes in.

    Like


  42. yeah, ch should write a book but he should go out of his way to distance himself from the pua associations and elevate himself into a cultural critical who gleans his observations vis a vis male/female dynamics. more voltaire and less neil strauss.

    i never read anything pua related, the whole enterprise is pretty cornball if you ask me. if it has helped some men, great, but i get the sense that its mostly marketing gimmick razzle dazzle. i do give credit where credit is due, the mystery method seems to be an achievement on the analytic front although i’ve never read it i respect those who respect it. that said, what keeps me reading ch is the quality of thought and writing behind the enterprise, nothing more. thats why he should write a book, because honestly i read the high brow stuff, and ch has the chops to be in that game if he really wanted. sometimes i get the sense though he doesnt want to be in that game and would prefer to be that asshole acerbic kid in the back of the class who always makes everyone laugh with his insight and wit but would prefer to leave it at that.

    Like


  43. on September 12, 2011 at 12:24 pm Obstinance Works

    if it has helped some men, great, but i get the sense that its mostly marketing gimmick razzle dazzle.***

    Yeah right. Step out with some cold reads during the comfort stage and then tell me it’s all razzle-dazzle marketing bs.

    Like