False Dichotomy Dorks

The list of hater logical fallacies is never ending. I’d have to devote three weeks’ worth of posts to debunk them all. Here’s one that’s particularly blockheaded:

< sperg >
“When you spend all that time chasing skirt, you miss out on the genuine feeling of accomplishing something real as a man.”
< /sperg >

If the either-or presupposition was banned from discourse, I predict half of the haters’ oeuvre would disappear overnight.

Fallacy: There’s nothing about pickup that automatically disqualifies a man from pursuing other interests or goals in his life. Richard Feynman helped create the atom bomb (what have you done lately?) while being a notorious womanizer.

Seducing babes feels great. So does getting a big promotion, creating a work of art, being the life of the party, fixing a motorcycle so it’s purring like a kitten, upgrading a kitchen by the sweat of your own brow, and chopping wood for the fireplace. None of these achievements are mutually exclusive. All of them induce the same powerful feelings of manliness.

All of them, too, are signatures of the alpha male.





Comments


  1. on June 22, 2012 at 4:46 pm Professor Ashur

    Yep, the female mind-camera is black-and-white, and has but a single pixel.

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  2. There’s a popular culture need to put men’s desires in their place. You can’t be whole if you are too successful with women. You know, you’ll end up alone and old because … um I guess old bitches wouldn’t want to marry you or something when you’re Hugh Hefner old. So, the player has to be empty on the inside. Speaking of which, I don’t think the host watches TV, but on Suits, the idiot lead started dating a girl and just had-had- to get a big secret (as in possibly resulting in disbarment, jail, etc.) off his chest because he couldn’t stand dating someone with a pinge of secrecy. Just shows how far the host’s message has yet to soak through mainstream life. mystery=good, not bad.

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  3. Erwin Schrodinger was another great physicist/womanizer.

    Indeed, there is no contradiction between achievement and chasing skirts. Whoever says there is probably spends way too much time playing something like Halo, which also takes time away from real achievements. (But a avid Halo player can also be an achiever, of course.)

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  4. Hahah! One of the Greatest Players of All Time was Benjamin Franklin. He hardly missed accomplishing something “as a real man”.

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    • He had 70 children. Quite literally the father of our country. (Rimshot.)

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    • It’s amazing how many of the other founding fathers come across as serious Betas. Both Washington and Madison married single moms.

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  5. on June 22, 2012 at 5:02 pm ThatNorwegianGuy

    Right. This is obviously fucking retarded. Since when is pickup necessarily a full-time job? And I actually tend to genuinely like sex; otherwise I wouldn’t spend time pursuing it.

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  6. Citation?

    The criticism doesn’t claim pursuits are mutually exclusive. It cautions against the damage of monomania and skewed priorities. It is essentially a warning against gluttony. “Too much of a good thing” applies to pussy just as it applies to a fat chick’s piece of cake. Your implication that one particular good — chasing women — is immune from ever being “too much” is the target of this brand of criticism. The critics poorly express themselves but they are essentially correct.

    The pussy pursuit doesn’t preclude others, but, undisciplined and unchecked, it can devolve into a state of mind that does. It’s the difference between social drinking and alcoholism. If booze or pussy is your ultimate raison d’être, it will eventually crowd out the desire for (and the ability to achieve) other goals.

    But look, we’re making progress here, you have to admit. I’ll take it. Not a one of your “signatures of the alpha male” includes anything sex-related, which has been our point all along, at least since Steve Sailer’s comment here years ago:

    The next and more important stage in the evolution of Game is for smart, logical, hard-headed nerdy guys to move beyond just figuring out how to persuade girls in bars that they are alphas to figuring out how to persuade men in boardrooms that they are alphas.

    After all, if important men think you are an alpha male, then you are an alpha male, and you get all the rewards that go along with it, like power, money, prestige, and women who are attracted to men with power, money, and prestige.

    In other words, why stop with the conquest of babes in bars when the conquest of the world is waiting?

    September 19, 2009

    Like the great man says, there is more to alpha than gaming broads. I realize you’ve cornered a niche here and a “hobby” can only expand so far — there are serious disincentives against expanding your wisdom to bigger subjects. But only so much reiteration is possible before the non-monomaniac goes mad. Not to mention that the culture sorely needs intelligent direction up out of the feminist pit they’ve dug for us. If not you, who? If not now, when?

    Matt

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    • Ummm, why not you? 😀

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    • on June 22, 2012 at 7:53 pm Always Be Fucking

      For those who enjoy pussy ( and not just
      talk about it) biology protects against “monomania”, as there is only limited number of times a man can fuck in a day/week/month.

      For non-biological pursuits there is no protection against monomania. So real concern should be any other pursuit ( religion, feminist agenda , in fact every other agenda out there ) which you might be putting effort into.

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      • Wait, so for a kleptomaniac (a type of monomania), there is no shortage of opportunities to steal at all times?

        Just because it’s biologically limited, doesn’t mean it’s not possible for it to be monomania.

        You could still overdo it pursuing women/sex, such as in sex addiction.

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    • The problem is that Alpha to women is non-Alpha and often repellent to men. Example: Russell Brand. See also Leonardo DiCaprio. The techniques that work on women are irrelevant or cause for a fight among men. Which is why Game is so HARD for many guys.

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      • Celebrities are in a category of their own. Their rules are different than ours. Fame is the greatest aphrodisiac.

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      • Agree. Being a dick to women causes them to react like women. Being a dick to dudes causes all but the fags to rebel. A little bit of cockiness doesn’t hurt, of course, and being too nice to other guys is loser behavior, but you can’t really fake your status with other guys; they’re going to see through your bullshit.

        Girls, on the other hand, it turns out, have a much harder time seeing through a guy’s bullshit as long as they seem like assholes.

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      • That’s just flat false. “When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” When all you have is “being a dick to women,” every woman looks like she wants you to be a dick.

        So you have discovered the utility of jerkiness. That doesn’t preclude the complementary utility of other techniques.

        “Being a dick to women” is the chili pepper in the recipe. It gives the dish a healthy zing in controlled measures, but overdoing it can ruin dinner.

        Most important of all: what our feminized culture calls “being a dick” is actually normal masculine behavior. I am a supreme dick with my brothers and friends. It bonds, it doesn’t divide. To think otherwise means you have no experience of the locker room. I tease men (Did you get that haircut on a dare?) just as I tease women (Flip-flops? In public? Are you serious?). The difference is, well-adjusted men grew up on a steady diet of being mocked and ridiculed “[f]rom the military school of life – What does not kill [him], makes [him] stronger.” Men take derisive banter with a grain of salt. Women, on the other hand, may be outwardly scandalized by the neg or shabby treatment, but they are inwardly pleased by a taste of that masculine “stronger.”

        Humorless feminist shrikes with inverted penises cannot fathom the salutary effect of teasing. No, they noted that the activity seemed to be a talent largely exclusive to the male sex, and so they automatically classified it as “evil.” That’s the feminist revaluation of all values! Whatever men do well — such as war, violence, directness, honesty, comedy (Q: How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb? A: That’s not funny.), hardship, leadership — was labeled evil in itself. Same with the uniquely male brand of teasing. It was relabeled “asshole” and “jerk.” The game community is just reclaiming those terms, much like queer and nigga were reclaimed by groups who exhibited taboo and marginalized behavior.

        In other words, being a “blunt asshole” (in the modern idiom) has always been a trait of leaders of men, and men follow men with that quality. In another age it would have been called “resolute” and “decisive.” If you don’t think so, you’ve never met a true leader, and/or you are not a man.

        Matt

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      • I agree with what you said except for your first sentence. As a thought exercise, take being a dick to its extreme. A cold-blooded murderer both scares and attracts women, but other men just want to kill the dude. You’re right about teasing with regard to both men and women, but there is a point beyond teasing which will excite a woman but push another man to physically fight. You tease your male friends, sure, but do you make your male friends your bitch? Are there many stories of guys who get physically beaten by their male friends yet keep coming back to them?

        So if men and women react differently to the extremes of dickish behavior, then it seems likely (if the psychology is a continuous function) that they react differently to moderately dickish behavior. I.e., There’s a line beyond which you wouldn’t put up with your male friends’ shit, but where many women happily would.

        Sailer’s idea of Game in the boardroom doesn’t get any traction for the exact reasons you state: men already behave that way around men. There isn’t much to learn or unlearn regarding interactions with other men. (Though maybe with all the anti-bullying rhetoric these days and less in-person social interaction, the next generation of men *will* have to learn & unlearn normal male interactions they should have learned on the playground.)

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      • men already behave that way around men.

        BZZZT. Wrong answer. Today’s “man” is a wispy, neckbearded hipster ginger with an NPR lisp and an instinct for supplication. He can stand a little more education in manliness.

        Of course “Game in the boardroom” requires a very different execution than “Game in the bedroom,” but the point is that they share the same essence. “The extremes of dickish behavior,” where “dickish behavior” is defined by feminism, is not “cold-blooded murder”! What a femmcunt calls “dickish” is normal masculine teasing — only she will imagine it turns into sociopathy and serial killing at the extremes. It is a dynamic she simply doesn’t understand and therefore can’t abide.

        No, the “extremes of [manly] behavior” produce the apex alpha, who inspires men first and women as a side-effect. Just because game encourages mimicry of that alpha for purposes of manipulating secondary effects (i.e., bedding women) doesn’t mean the PUA’s focus defines the original or comprehensive scope of alpha. Don Giovanni is a secondary alpha because he exploits only one facet of it, with no access to (or indeed with outright revulsion against) his leadership of men. The primary alpha — kings, dictators, executives, generals — has access to all facets of alphatude, whether or not he exploits the mesmeric hold he has over women.

        Matt

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      • Also, there’s masters of the boardroom who are clueless with women. Game is about understanding female psychology. Male psychology is easy enough. For instance, in the workplace, males usually judge other males by ACTUAL MERIT. The female mind, on the other hand, doesn’t judge a man by his worth to society but by his worth to biology.

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    • only reason to get power and prestige is to have access to women, so your argument is: don’t focus on women so much, focus on things that will get you women. And fyi, bars aren’t the only place to met women. But they are a reliably source for dtf women.
      incidentally, I don’t see the point of being alpha if you’re not using it to get laid.

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      • You are an unwitting, feminized tool. The world does not revolve around “access to women.” Though women are quite happy you think so.

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      • Evolution would argue otherwise. The only commonality between ALL of your ancestors is that they successfully gained access to reproductive opportunity. Meaning everything you have in you is there because it was reliably attractive. Meaning EVERYTHING you do is designed to gain access to the opposite sex (in our case women). All your goals, accomplishments, and artistic expressions, anything you have ever done, has been towards the ultimate goal of reproduction.

        Any other purpose you think you have is a pretty lie which, ironically, keeps you running along the path to reproduction.

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      • This is the monomania I’m talking about. There are other ways to skin a cat. But worshipers of your particular brand of Evolutionary Dogma actively crowd out the possibility of any other explanation for what drives men.

        “The only commonality between ALL of your ancestors is that they successfully” breathed. “Meaning everything you have in you is there because it was reliably” oxygenated. “Meaning EVERYTHING you do is designed to gain access to” air. “All your goals, accomplishments, and artistic expressions, anything you have ever done, has been towards the ultimate goal of” respiration.

        Your reductio ad absurdum can be played many ways. Substitute “eating” or “warmth” (or anything at the bottom of Maslow’s hierarchy) for “fucking,” and you can make your straw man speak any way you need him to.

        Or more to the point, there is a difference between necessary causes and sufficient ones. It’s necessary for you to breathe before you attempt to create a masterpiece, but it isn’t the only ingredient in the mix. Yes, you had to have been born before you could attempt greatness, but as 99% of the male population demonstrates, you need more than mere existence to make a mark.

        Why are you fixated on one of the drives of men as the explanation for “EVERYTHING”? Because that’s how monomania works. Your partial education doesn’t help much springing you from that particular prison.

        Matt

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      • Attempting to discredit me by pathologizing my use of evolution is not going to stop me. You also know nothing of my education, so that ad hominen does little to phase me. You seem to be a respectable opponent, so I will write off your personal attacks as the ego defense of a man pinned between the truth and a truth-teller. I only ask you turn around and see what your back is up against.

        I do not base my argument on evolutionary theory because I am blindly following some academic or Game dogma. I use evolution because it is a concept with unbelievable explanatory AND predictive power. It offers blatant and potent truths. It seems to me to explain not only how ALL current life came to be, but why it does what it does. Does it conclude with certainty what our purpose is? No, but it offers a far better working hypothesis than any poetic existential philosophy.

        The are multiple problems with your misinterpretation of my argument.

        One being that what you are substituting for reproduction (not “fucking”) are not absolute commonalities. Not all of your ancestors breathed or ate. Evolution traces your ancestry all the way back to the first microscopic living thing, a thing which had vastly different needs than you do. Reproduction, however, IS a commonality all the way back.

        Another is that you are leaving out the finalizing nature of reproduction. Many things survived that did not reproduce. Nature wrote those things off as failed experiments. There have doubtlessly been many incredible mutations that did not reproduce; stunning color schemes, novel ways to absorb nutrients, or hyper-efficient breathing, to imagine a few. As admirable as some of these failures may have been, they account for exactly 0% of the genetic makeup of the life on earth. Survival without reproduction does not survive.

        However reproduction necessarily includes survival. Nothing can reproduce if it didn’t survive long enough to do so. Meaning survival value is merely a subcategory of reproductive value. An organism cannot gain survival value without gaining reproductive value. It CAN gain reproductive value without gaining survival value. An example? A peacocks tail.

        A peacocks tail offers nothing to survival value, in fact it detracts from it. It demands wasteful nutrient expenditure and it makes the peacock a highly visible target for predators. However, it offers enough of an increase to reproductive value that it was selected for, and all peacocks now have one. Why waste the resources and increase the risk? Because a peacocks tail is a great indicator of its current and past health. Sickly peacocks grow sickly tails, and are easily disqualified as mates by the peahens.

        My argument is that any capability that humans have that does not directly increase survival value, is there because it increases reproductive value. Art, music, intellectual or spiritual achievement, all exist because they were attractive. The incredibly complex nature of the human brain means there is certainly some survival value in all of these uniquely human achievements, but they were selected more as a display of reproductive fitness than as means of survival. Becoming a successful musician indicates you have so easy of a time surviving that you have plenty of spare time to practice, you have the extra resources to burn on a survival value-less venture like music, and you have a healthy enough body and mind to learn and perform.

        Reproductive goals are not only necessary to explain human achievement, but sufficient as well. Lofty philosophical values are neither. I would rather follow truth into a damp filthy hole than follow lies into a cushy castle in the sky.

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      • @Rayge

        You reduce Kinga’s incoherent, jejune rambling to shreds – very eloquently done!

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      • I would’ve had a counter-argument, but on June 26, 2012 at 5:39 pm, Rayge layed the smack-down on your candy ass.

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    • on June 23, 2012 at 2:09 pm Frank Meyer Lives

      Whiskeyspace is right on the money here. Being capriciously demanding to a woman you’re dating may result in her working harder and harder to try and please you, but being capriciously demanding to other male co-workers/subordinates causes your best performers to jump ship at the first chance they get to make the same $$$ without having to deal with the workplace equivalent of “shit tests” and “negs” — as it should.

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  7. The other point is that, it’s not just that high career success and Alpha success with girls can cooexist – the fact is that they both stem from high T, plus higher than average IQ and ambition…

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  8. Without hyperfocusing on pickup your game will only ever reach a limited level of what it could reach.

    That’s fine for most guys, they’ll bang a few 6s and 7s, maybe an 8 here and there and a single 9 and then settle down with a 7 and tell themselves hot girls are all crazy and drama and it’s too much hassle so they’re happy with their 7 who will probably end up a 6 or 5 a few years into the relationship when they put on some pounds and shit.

    And that’s cool. Whatever floats your boat.

    But if you want to get good, like really good, at this, ESPECIALLY if you’re starting from a really socially-crippled place, you need to focus on it hardcore for a few years. That’s not a couple hours when you’re out with your bros every fri/sat night. That’s 5-7 nights a week, doing 30 or 60 day challenges, doing hours of day game before heading to the bar to do night game etc.

    But that’s only if you consistently want the girls that other guys have only spanked their monkey thinking about.

    “well actually Yareally my ex GF turned QUITE a few heads! I have dated women that other men drool over so trust me when I say–”

    lol there are no 10s in Bumblefuck Idaho or on eHarmony.

    In the end no one gives a shit what you do, you’re not important. Are any of the guys who are whining on Internet forums about how guys should focus on being real men and not focus on women going to do anything truly Ben Franklin level significant with their lives? haha fuck no.

    Hey which one of those MGTOW guys did something we’ve all heard about in the news and admired? Oh wait, that was none of them lol how’d they get up on that high horse again exactly?

    In conclusion: If you like chopping wood, chop wood. If you like chasing pussy, chase pussy.

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    • P.S. it’s Friday. Go out tonight instead of chopping wood. There are girls out there.

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    • “That’s 5-7 nights a week, doing 30 or 60 day challenges”

      So fucking true. Like bodybuilding, you need this type of consistency to achieve results (although it’s more 4-5 than 7. 7 nights a week, that’s scary, man).

      Keep kicking our asses like that, it’s really helpful. I’m doing the 1 night a week kinda thing, with very few if any approaches during week days, and it’s clearly not enough to achieve mastery, although I have a satisfying sex life and I’m not the clueless greater beta that I used to be anymore.
      The only way to become the super smooth talking casanova that we all want to become is through practice.

      Fuck all this theory stuff, I’m out.

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      • “(although it’s more 4-5 than 7. 7 nights a week, that’s scary, man).”

        What’s scary? Socializing with your fellow human beings? Interacting with the world around you? You don’t have to go get hammered and party for 4 hours on a Tuesday night. Spend 20 minutes to an hour out and about and open a few sets

        Social skills are like a muscle. If you don’t work out, you lose your muscles. But once you get into a regular routine it’s not “scary”. Ya a bodybuilder is pretty excessive in his training but is the guy who’s just doing his daily morning workout for an hour some crazy obsessed monomaniac? Nah he’s just a guy who’s said “this is a priority in my life so I make time for it in my daily routine”.

        That’s how it levels out after you get to a certain skill level. You socialize with the people around you wherever you go. It just becomes a normal thing to not be trapped in the “don’t say hello or speak to anyone, pretend to be txting on your phone” society we live in these days.

        But if you want to master it, just like the bodybuilders who want to break personal records and push their bodies to the limits etc, you have to put effort in.

        If you go out a couple times a week/month and whine about your results, you’re the girl who won’t change her diet and exercises half-assed once a week and then bitches about her weight.

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    • Without hyperfocusing on pickup your game will only ever reach a limited level of what it could reach.

      This is why I’m glad for people like yareally who “hyperfocus[]” on pick-up. I have no reference for the monomania aspect, and apparently that frame is what certain young initiates need if they want to overcome their deficiencies.

      But as an ideal, or as the only way to go? No way. Here two schools of thought diverge. If you are the average beta shmo with zero natural game, then yeah, “focus on it hardcore for a few years.” “Thirty or sixty day challenges, doing hours of day game before heading to the bar to do night game” sounds like pointless torture for little reward to me, but then again I was never 450 pounds in need of a crash diet just to make average weight. Blessed with a healthy metabolism, I guess.

      It explains why I can’t suffer much of yareally’s lengthy (and smart) workout-regimen posts. Different experiences, different advice. But I can say that, one way or another, the well adjusted man evolves past the need for hypergame just as the proper Marine graduates boot camp. For recruits? Solid guidance. For combat veterans? Annoying and almost insultingly repetitive.

      My question is — where do veterans go to compare notes? It’s true: some men don’t need to be condescended to. We know “it’s Friday.” We knew to “go out tonight instead of chopping wood” even before the Disney Mascot of Pick-Up reminded us.

      Further (and this may blow your mind), alpha applies to much more than women. It’s not sacrilege to acknowledge as much. In fact, it might be just the incentive to “hyperfocus” through those initiate years. Believe it or not, “getting the girls that other guys have only spanked their monkey thinking about” only works as an incentive until you consistently do get those girls without the effort you seem to believe is necessary across the board at every stage of life. Those men who are not manic eventually require higher mountains to scale. The audience here isn’t exclusively a gaggle of eager post-college quasi-players looking to get rid of the “quasi.” What do you have for the day after tomorrow?

      Really — it’s axiomatic to state a goal and then work backwards from it to discern a first step toward that goal. The ultimate purpose of these crash diets in game are never spelled out, other than a general ridicule for those who acknowledge finitude and the possibility of evolving past the basics. What is the benchmark for these recruits? Banging ten tens? A twelve-girl harem? Fifty different women a year? When can we say they’ve graduated? There is always more and better, but the point of this post is to say “to each his own” in terms of pick up, and those of us who have chosen something less than monomania might have done it on purpose.

      In the end no one gives a shit what you do, you’re not important. Are any of the guys who are whining on Internet forums about how guys should focus on being real men and not focus on women going to do anything truly Ben Franklin level significant with their lives? haha fuck no.

      Perfect encapsulation. Maybe even projection: What significant things has yareally done with his life, and where did he get the idea that significance was unattainable? Not only doesn’t yareally respect men who apply themselves beyond the pussosphere, he finds the very attempt absurd and faggy. All I can say to that is: loser. If you can’t imagine a world of greatness beyond gaming women, forget monomania, you are socially retarded.

      “No one gives a shit what you do.” You hear that Brad Pitt, Tom Brady, George Clooney? “You’re not important,” Ernest Hemingway, Edmund Hillary, Werner von Braun. Yareally says you should be day-approaching sixty women a day.

      Matt

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      • “sounds like pointless torture”

        Yes, it would to you. This is exactly how people who are anti-social and don’t enjoy their fellow human beings see going out. PUAs learn to have fun with meeting new people and view the world through a completely different and, personally I’d say healthier, lens than people like you who see chatting with the checkout clerk about their day or the cab driver about their shift or joking around with the people in the elevator or bus stop as a chore and torture.

        We see all that as opportunity to make new friends, relationships, brighten people’s day, give them an ear to vent to, have fun with life, make our community around us more personal, unstifle a

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      • “sounds like pointless torture”

        Yes, it would to you. This is exactly how people who are anti-social and don’t enjoy their fellow human beings see going out. PUAs learn to have fun with meeting new people and view the world through a completely different and, personally I’d say healthier, lens than people like you who see chatting with the checkout clerk about their day or the cab driver about their shift or joking around with the people in the elevator or bus stop as a chore and torture.

        We see all that as opportunity to make new friends, relationships, brighten people’s day, give them an ear to vent to, have fun with life, make our community around us more personal, unstifle a room full of socially nervous people, lighten the mood in a bleak situation, etc.

        And past a certain skill level we LOVE it. And thrive off it. And excel at it.

        “For combat veterans? Annoying and almost insultingly repetitive.”

        You have an ego that holds you back because you see yourself as a pro and not a student, and that limits your ability to evolve. It reflects in your writing. “combat veteran” lol

        “We know “it’s Friday.” We knew to “go out tonight instead of chopping wood” ”

        And DID you go out? Did you chat some strangers up? Flirt with some girls even just to keep your skills sharp if you’re married? Or did you read manosphere blogs because you’re such a super combat vet?

        “alpha applies to much more than women.”

        No shit. But this is a blog about interacting with women, despite you treating it like a soapbox for whatever elaborate tangent-filled strawman-building rant where you just re-assert how much better than other people you are, that you feel like making today.

        “the effort you seem to believe is necessary across the board at every stage of life”

        This is that straw-man thing where you just make shit up so you can go off on a tangent rant and act superior and be a bully I was talking about up above.

        Never said “every stage of life”. Tyson isn’t still fighting but do you think he’d have been as good as he was if he wasn’t training like a motherfucker? If he hit the gym once a week and did a half-assed workout? I’m saying if you want to master this skillset, you have to put in the work.

        Talking on bodybuilding forums doesn’t make your muscles grow.

        “What do you have for the day after tomorrow?”

        A smile on your face? Fun stories? New memories beyond “debated on an Internet forum”? New relationships? New friendships? Funny blowout stories? A wider social circle? A larger network of friends and associates that can lead to new opportunities and adventures?

        But ya, no, you’re right, going out is just a shallow nightmarish hell for crazy monomaniacal who think pussy is the end all be all of the worth of a man despite the PUA community expressing the opposite message and in fact one that lines up with your “do something with your life beyond women”, but you’d have to do some actual research to realize that.

        “What is the benchmark for these recruits?”

        Whatever they want it to be. That’s the point. Your goals evolve as you evolve. Do you still want to eat a box of Oreo cookies for dinner every night and be a ninja like when you were a kid? No. Because you re-assessed your goals as you grew and evolved.

        We do the same thing. Guys like you who decide they’ve “made it” and think practicing or training further is all condescending and just for “newbs” stagnate and solidify in one spot as they form their ego around a static identity.

        I still consider myself a student with plenty to learn and lots of skills to work on. I’ll always consider myself a student because there’s always more to learn and experience and more evolving to do as a man.

        “and those of us who have chosen something less than monomania might have done it on purpose”

        Jesus. So basically you posted that whole thing to justify something you COMPLETELY IMAGINED I said lol you can pick whatever you want to focus on in life. Your goal can be to be the best muffin baker in the universe and ride a magic pony, I don’t give a shit, but that won’t master your social/pickup skills.

        You literally just take a couple snippets from people’s posts, exaggerate them into something ridiculous and make up points for them that they aren’t even saying, so that you can then argue with those points and be right since the points you made up are easily argued against which is why no one made them in the first place lol I’ve seen you do this a bunch in your posts. You are literally arguing with yourself lol I’m not even sure you realize you do this.

        “Not only doesn’t yareally respect men who apply themselves beyond the pussosphere,”

        See? Not only does King A love raping children but he ALSO likes wearing women’s underwear!!

        “You hear that Brad Pitt, Tom Brady, George Clooney? “You’re not important,” Ernest Hemingway, Edmund Hillary, Werner von Braun”

        Hook me up with your blockbuster movie will ya? Or the books you’ve written that society regards as genius. Or the invention you’ve made that’s changed everyone’s lives. I mean, you’re so amazing and focused on being great, let’s see your results. Anything? No? A big archive of posts on the manosphere? Is that the greatness that you’re trying to attain with the whole not focusing on women thing?

        I mean, my goals might be different than yours…but I’m achieving mine instead of wasting my time talking. 🙂 you are literally on a forum about seducing women, not focusing on being a success, while ranting about how everyone should focus on being a success.

        You gotta see the humor in this lol

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      • Brother, you’re trying to use me as a foil, and it just doesn’t work. I tell you I have been where you have been, you simply declare it non-credible and continue operating as if it were impossible for me to have moved past your peppy, post-college, everything-devolves-to-game stage.

        You would do better to overestimate those who disagree with you than underestimate them. Then all the surprises will be pleasant rather than nasty and credibility-destroying.

        The difference between you and me is I respect the phase you are working your way through. The manner with which you are working does not have to be dismissive of advancement past what you can currently fathom. You are so certain you have nothing to learn from those who have grown out of your peculiar obsessions, and while that may be helpful for today’s goals (and Friday’s and Saturday’s), it is generally retarding you as a man.

        Matt

        Like


      • I have lots to learn. From men who have lots to teach.

        Your problem is you decided you were one of those men when you haven’t done anything with your life to earn that title. You overestimate yourself rather than underestimate yourself.

        And to keep from realizing it, you label me with random shit so you can feel better about yourself. You cast me as a 20yo with no life experience who’s obsessed with game 24/7 the same way feminists paint all MRAs as whiny women-haters so they can ignore them entirely instead of discussing their very real concerns with men’s rights…it’s a standard bullying tactic by someone who has their head deep in the sand with a solidified and crystallized world view and doesn’t want to hear anything that would suggest they’ve been wrong. My age, who I really am, and the things I do outside of seduction would surprise you. 🙂

        Like


      • @Ya,

        Beware, Kinga is a whiny little bitch, totally delusional and autistic… he will never understand anything you, me or anybody says – he’s mind is that of a bicameral zombie.

        Oh and BTW, he has the entire unabridged King James stuffed up his ass sideways!

        Like


      • How’s that “ignore list” working out for you, chief?

        Like


      • @Kinga,

        Better than that bible up your ass!

        Like


  9. The Duke of Wellington: conquered a huge chunk of India, outnumbered the whole time he drove the French out of Spain, finished off Napoleon at Waterloo, became the leader of the Conservative Party, became Prime Minister, spent the last 20 years of his life as an elder statesman consulted on all major decisions. And he was a well known lover of the ladies, particularly the beautiful young wives of people in his elite social set, as well as having a series of LTRs. There have been great men in all fields who are casanovas, and others who were happily married and did not cheat, some who were happily married AND pursued women on the side, and some who seem to have been married to their work. Success and great achievement come as a result of innate gifts, drive and ambition and courage and perseverance and also opportunities and luck. Pursuing lots of women can be compatible with that, and has been on many occasions. The record is unambiguously clear on this.

    Like


  10. I’d say “when you spend your time doing only what your good at, youll never get anything else”.

    Like


  11. Feynman lost his wife young which may have damaged him. Von Neumann had an eye for the ladies, although I am not sure he actually did much. Crick liked women. Einstein too. On the other hand, Watson just wanted one decent looking female. Dirac had just his wife (“Paul, what would you do if I left you?!” “I would say, goodbye Dear.”)

    Godel married a dancer, but their marriage was very square.

    Science is a demanding profession as regards time, including turning up at the lab at regular times. It is not really conducive to chasing a lot of skirt. Also, very intelligent men tend to be bored by women.

    I have a PhD in science. I only ever wanted one woman. I went for quality not quantity.

    Like


    • > I only ever wanted one woman. I went for quality not quantity.

      What a crock. There is only one way to pick up a quality female and that’s through practice, practice, and more practice.

      If you found scoring easy, it means you aren’t aiming high enough.

      Like


  12. Feynman was actually in love with a girl who died of TB when they were both young. In fact, he even married her knowing that she was going to die. He did his greatest work – Atom bomb Manhattan Project (although credit should be given to the team leader Robert Openheimmer), and Quantum Field Theory (Nobel Prize in Physics) when he was in love with that girl. He became a womanizer later on in life and although he did really good work after that he is not notable for any of the later work.

    Like


    • The girl was Arline Greenbaum. The team leader was J. Robert Oppenheimer. Other scientists and mathematicians were equally important, such as John von Neumann who worked on the mathematics for calculating shockwaves used to induce an implosion used in a nuclear device.

      Like


  13. In fact, for a few womanizer / great scientist examples, there are tons of great (noble prize winning, famous) scientists who led a conventional domestic life. (One wife, family, etc.)
    If you want examples, John Bardeen (two nobel prizes in Physics), William Shockley (Nobel Prize in Physics – inventor of the transistor) and many others..
    Scientific pursuits consume enormous amount of time and dedication and result in frequent disappointments..which needs support of a stable family to succeed. You cant add to that the disappointments and somewhat not so deep satisfaction attained in the carefree lifestyle of a player..

    Like


  14. Don’t chase skirts. Become such a super fucking alpha that skirts chase you.

    Like


    • Skirts chased me. Not interested in most skirts. Most skirts no brains, not worth the trouble.

      Like


      • Most skirts aren’t worth 2 dates, much less 3. Completely agree with David on this.

        Like


      • I was good-looking enough to attract a fair number of women. One of my sister’s friends asked me to take her virginity. No thanks. Other women in college came onto me. No thanks. Too much risk of drama. I did have a brief affair with one of the more interesting girls, the wife of a friend in college. That was a mistake.

        My advice. Select a pretty virgin who will make a good wife.

        Like


      • And speaking from experience, even that doesn’t always work. Or rather, when selecting a pretty virgin, make sure that her mother isn’t a domineering shrew who’s husband had long-ago lost his manhood. The first-time your lovely virgin becomes friends with a ‘blue-pill-whore’ and tries to assert herself… the results will be a phone call to the shrew who’s relationship advice will create never-ending stream of confrontational bullshit.

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      • Yes, there are no guarantees in life. Luckily my pretty virgin had a mother who has always liked me. In fact, she has set my wife straight a few times. Her father had lost some of his authority, due to a bout of alcoholism, and my MIL gave him a lot of shit, but she seems to like me.

        I did have a previous fiancee who, I eventually realised, had been getting a lot of bad advice from her friends and family.

        If the girl doesn’t listen to you first and foremost, and she has divided loyalties from the start, that makes for a very bad prognosis. My wife’s friends are most boring librarian types. So I think she is not exposed to too many bad influences.

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      • I made the mistake of marrying my ex-wife even when her mother didn’t particularly like me. My ex was also extremely at odds with her family and we all-but-eloped… then my ex-MiL turns on the “I was so wrong… I’ve changed” manipulative BS… but yeah, divided loyalties are bad.

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  15. I went out with a girl for more than a year who was always for lack of a better word… “gaming”….

    She would always play innocent, smile and beta orbiters would flock to her with presents, offer their numbers etc. But when girls threw themselves at me she would go crazy.

    At one point after we broke up she invited a guy she just met to a private party and screening of a film.

    She later told me: “I didn’t invite him…he asked if there was anything going on tonight so I gave him the address. He just showed up”…

    But she insisted it wasn’t an “invitation…”

    She said this with a genuine straight-faced innocence…

    Like


  16. And what would you make of this one?

    I verily believe that a man’s way with women is in inverse ratio to his prowess among men. The weakling and the saphead have often great ability to charm the fair sex, while the fighting man who can face a thousand real dangers unafraid, sits hiding in the shadows like some frightened child.

    However, I guess the quotation may be familiar to at least some of your readers, and even if not, nothing can stop you from googling it, right? =)

    Like


    • It is in fact often true. The qualities that men prize in leaders, straightforwardness, trustworthiness, lack of mystery, one who keeps his word, supports his friends, punishes his enemies, and produces victories and success, are things that women don’t care about or often despise. A man wishes to know if his leader will cast him away, and will not follow one he suspects will. A woman will often fall for just such a man.

      Like


      • I respect this way of thinking, although it is conjecture contrary to my experience. All things considered, it’s not controversial to say that men of unimpeachable stature — rock stars, CEOs, world-class athletes, generals, professors — have little trouble with the ladies; in fact, their only trouble with women is handling the overabundance. Does this mean the charming rogue can’t score by flashing some dark triad on a floozy? Of course not.

        But now it becomes a matter of what kind of man one wants to be. How little that all-important question is posed in places like these. If you have already concluded the apex is unattainable, the sociopath option becomes your best bet. Here’s one problem with pushing the sociopath on rising betas: it sucks to be a detached monster who worships evil. It eventually hollows you out and isolates you from all good things. Sociopaths are only attractive (to men as well as women) from the relative stability of normality: look at that stud! He gleefully breaks all the rules! But no beta knows what it’s like to be the bad man behind blue eyes.

        If you are promoting this life, at least be honest about the trade-off. Are you even aware of the trade-off?

        Moreover, it isn’t just women who are attracted to the dark. Anyone who ever had a bipolar girl knows that (and what man hasn’t? our abusive culture is lousy with them). They are some kind of fun. If only we could extract those good polar moments from the bad! But we can’t take the positive without any blowback — PUA claims notwithstanding — so it becomes a matter of risk assessment.

        There’s the rub. Even average men have experience with the highs that accompany deeply damaged women, just as the average woman is attracted to the appearance of dark-triad traits. But who has the experience of the apex alpha, who attracts undamaged women without effort? Exceeding few. It’s just not salable to the general pick-up public that the extreme devotions of an undamaged woman might surpass the temporary fun of a crazed chick, with the added advantage of no baggage. (In fact, that kind of woman is considered by cynics to be as real as a unicorn.) Inspiring those devotions is not easy for even lesser alphas. Is it even worth it to try? is an open question. Let’s treat it as such.

        Most important, though, is the recognition of our historical anomaly. It’s not easy to score undamaged women because there is more damage than ever among the distaff populace. It’s worth putting some effort into reversing the tide, because otherwise, the viciousness simply feeds on itself and becomes stronger.

        For all the fun nights and discarded women, there is a percentage in the salvage effort: the ability to heal women creates an attraction even more fundamental, more intimate, more stable, more sexual, and more than sexual. I can report that the attraction is eternal and transfiguring to the subject. It blows away the fleeting, fading circus-show of pumping and dumping a freak chick. But why would any eager-beaver beta take my word for it when the carnival barkers promise a short cut?

        Zarathustra, however, turned sad, and said to his heart:
        They do not understand me: I am not the mouth for these ears. Perhaps I have lived too long in the mountains; I have hearkened too much to the brooks and trees: now I speak to them as to the goatherds. My soul is calm and clear, like the mountains in the morning. But they think I am cold, and a mocker with terrible jests. Now they look at me and laugh: and while they laugh they hate me too. There is ice in their laughter.

        Matt

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      • OK we get it. You wifed up a slut and you’re proud of yourself.

        Get this: it’s easy to fix damaged women. It’s ridiculously easy to make women fall in love.
        Someone who is proud of being a capt’n save-a-ho is no better than a cuckold.

        Like


      • Like I said. Not the mouth for these ears.

        “It’s easy to fix damaged women.” You’ve never experienced bipolar disorder, child.

        As a matter of fact, I do save hos. Quite incidentally, usually. All it requires is not exploiting their wreckage for five minutes to at least send her on a healthy trajectory. Isn’t leaving a woman better than you found her a boy-scout PUA principle? You wouldn’t know that it’s possible to incidentally improve a girl’s life because you have to jump in and snatch whatever substandard pussy stumbles wounded and bleeding across your rifle scope. Desperate betas in alpha clothing like you can’t afford to discriminate. You might not get another chance at a meal.

        The rest of us, who don’t have to scattershot-daygame “30 to 60” women for one potential close? You can’t relate to us. Both damaged and undamaged girls stream magnetically to my pole. It’s no great achievement to attract a broken doll, and it’s positively pathetic to brag about how easily you broke her further. It takes nothing to give a beggar a dime when you have plenty in your wallet. You low-bred mongrels savage each other over nickels that drop to the pavement. You Jerry Springer Maury Povich audition reject.

        I won’t pretend it’s possible for you to be me. But I won’t suffer your type either.

        Matt

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      • “I won’t pretend it’s possible for you to be me. But I won’t suffer your type either.” Firstly: Thank God. And for the second sentence: does that mean you will stop inflicting us all with your needlessly verbose writing?

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      • Verbose. And yet your quotation indicates you read all the way to the bottom.

        I said I was not the mouth for your ears, chump. Better men than you have the capacity to hear and, not incidentally, a far greater discipline over unintentionally revealing their stupidity/inability to comprehend.

        “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

        Matt

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      • @Anonymous,

        I’ve added GayBooks and Kinga to my Ignore list.

        Both write comments which are tl;dr and bloviate for it’s own sake.

        Kinga waits till a post has 30-50 comments, then attempts to repeat/summarize them, in a long winded epistle. It’s called Echolalia… look it up.

        At least GayBooks has some solid points – which he read elsewhere and copies furiously here – the rest is purely tinfoil hat territory.

        I suspect they are both religious virgins, who can’t abide sex – with girls that is 😉

        Like


      • It’s never right to kick people when they’re down. Dumping on a fallen woman is the same thing.

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      • I’m sure I’m not the only one listening attentively.

        “What I must do is all that concerns me, not what the people think.”
        – Emerson

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      • I appreciate your candor, That Guy. It’s simpler when irrational haters self-identify. It allows less time to be wasted on treating you as a proper critic. Although, any sort of non-substantive, dismissive grunt does the trick just as well. Declaring “I’m Putting You On Ignore” is a very different thing than just ignoring; it shows your neediness.

        If you can’t manage the much more dismissive act of simple silence, at least provide some substantial reason why we should give half a flying fuck what you think.

        Matt

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  17. Once you reach a certain level of maturity, you realize how much effort it can take to chase girls and get laid. If you are dating many women, you might devote a lot of thought to them and what you need to do. Going out and drinking late is a big investment of time.

    When you are younger, you just do these things and they come naturally. If you are a nuclear physicist — or whatever profession — spending time chasing girls can affect your professional life. It can tax your health and other relationships, too. (Not saying it’s bad, just that it can affect other things.)

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    • Agreed. Women are simply not worth the trouble. One woman may be, if she makes your life easier and she wants to be with you. But most women are not very clever or interesting, with a few exceptions, and it can be a real strain trying to talk at their level. I noticed, when I was in the marriage market, that most men were interesting to talk to. Even the less intelligent ones seemed to have something to contribute. But most women are dull.

      It is not as if they are different where it counts anyway.

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      • Sad, but true. I’ve never even thought of that. You can take almost any guy of any significant intellect and have a decent conversation. (I’m excluding native Mexicans.) As for chicks, all thought seems to be devoted to status and consumption. What is the next move, is this guy good enough for me, what purse should I buy, etc.

        Now if I were rich enough and still single, I think chasing skirt all the time would be fun, and there would be nothing morally or ethically wrong with it. Just saying that it takes time and energy, both of which are exhaustible resources.

        Like


      • I suspect the problem I have is that women generally don’t have much capacity for abstract thought. So their conversation tends to be on concrete issues. Men, even unintelligent men, want to discuss generalities and have opinions to share. Women, not so much.

        If I were a very wealthy man, and my present wife died, I would select one pretty, feminine, intelligent woman, with a sense of style, who wouldn’t mind keeping house for me. I wouldn’t bother with having sex with random women. And since I am now 57, I would probably look for a MILFy kind of female of about 40.

        For example, I like my MIL, but she is a terribly limited woman in terms of her interests, and there are many worse than her. I can talk to her for about 5 minutes before I get bored. My wife is a bit more interesting, thank God.

        Like


      • @David,

        Too true!

        If you want intelligent, witty conversation – don’t look to your gf/wife

        Like


      • Yes, look, my wife is not dumb. She has an Arts degree in history and so on. I had hoped to have intellectual discussions with her, as well as everything else a man wants from a woman. Sometimes we do. She reads and thinks. But such a life of the mind has never been a major part of our marriage. Women seem to lose their girlish enthusiasm and intellectual curiosity pretty quickly. I suppose it has meant, as National Lampoon once memorably put it, that she has made a good transition to the ironing board. But you have to wonder why we bother educating even intelligent women. Heaven alone knows what living with a real bimbo would be like.

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    • @Turnip,
      I always flirt with girls, but I’ve always been more chased than chasing. If I had to do all the chasing, I wouldn’t have time for much else.

      When I was in college – maintaining a 4.0 GPA – and holding down a full-time job, I once got up to 5 concurrent gf’s – but I was suffering from serious lack of sleep and becoming unhealthy, so decided to cut it down to no more than 2 at a time.

      Like


  18. Here’s the problem with that.

    Exceptional men can and have done exceptional things and bedded lots of women. No denying that.

    However, most men are average, and there are so many hours in the day. While the skills learned in game can help in work depending on your job, and making money certainly helps with the ladies, trying to be an uber-player can cut into the time you spend on your job, and vice versa. So there are real tradeoffs most men have to make.

    Like


    • Heartiste must have missed 90% of the guys that take chasing girls way too seriously in this community.

      [heartiste: reproduction is the most serious business there is.]

      Like


    • Exactly. To mass-market a technique one has to appeal to the lowest common denominator. The shortest short-cut that every man can achieve. “YOU TOO CAN BED THE HOTTEST WOMEN!”

      All well and good, except

      1) for most men and for the most part, it’s snake oil,

      2) there is no warning label about the “real tradeoffs” that go beyond “the time you spend on the job,” namely, of one’s personality and character, and

      3) the general call for men to be selfish, insensate, and destructive (I Have Stolen Many Prime Years of Girls’ Lives) contributes to the very causes of the undersupply of attainable and non-disgusting women.

      Which makes a perverse sense individually and short-term. There is little to persuade the player to undergo the mighty effort of adjusting course once his horse has gathered momentum and gravity down down down.

      What rein can hold licentious wickedness
      When down the hill he holds his fierce career?
      We may as bootless spend our vain command
      Upon the enraged soldiers in their spoil
      As send precepts to the leviathan
      To come ashore.

      He has committed to a trajectory, and he is all in. Until the long-term consequences begin coming a-cropper. But by then age has hardened the heart and he becomes constitutionally incapable of detecting the sclerosis, much less the advantage to and possibility of softening.

      Good news is, there is only so much damage any individual can do. The danger is attempting to turn it into a creed for the masses. When the masses fail to achieve what is promised to them — as sheer numbers dictate — they will be inspired to revenge themselves on our daughters who don’t deserve the treatment. All the sloppy skeezy treatment and none of the reward. This is what happens when one attains a great power with no ability to direct it toward deliberate ends.

      Matt

      Like


    • Pretty much this, if you’re not a man of exceptional caliber you need to make tradeoffs in order to accomplish something worthwhile. And getting to bang a lot of skanks is not a ‘worthwhile accomplishment’, merely a fun pastime.

      Like


  19. OBVIOUSLY, if you are a government employee or time is not scarce, go be a player. BUT, if your time is scarce, this is problem. World of Warcraft or Chase Tail, Chase Tail.

    There is also the investment thesis. Be a monk, build your life, chase tail later (and be better at it). Great to find a wife in your 30’s after you have built a career after years of toil.

    Like


  20. If a guy is happy with one woman, there is nothing wrong with that. I think this post is merely arguing that if a guy is happy with lots of constantly new women, there’s nothing wrong with that either. Jesus Christ our society has inverted values to the point where sluts are OK and cool but a womanizer should be shamed. Good job, dorks.

    Like



  21. “When you spend all that time chasing skirt, you miss out on the genuine feeling of accomplishing something real as a man.”

    “Sperg” is right.

    Starting to get with women adds to a man’s confidence such that he is able to do more in his life’s calling, not less.

    In fact, I’ll go so far as to say that if a man gets a woman and starts doing less with his vocation, it’s because he’s settling.

    Like


  22. My ex is a hot 19-yr-old california girl. Dumped her because she’s beneath me by now thanks to Heartiste’s teachings, but she’s got enough value that she’s good practice for aspiring alphas, so I thought I’d be generous and share some contact info: Kik her at Brycechick. Sure, she puts out (only digitally to strangers) easy, but it’s not like you’re looking to her for something more than a convenient way to practice game, and the promise of custom porn should push you to perform.

    If you don’t have a Kik, you should get one. It’s clogged up by kids, but that means the of-age females have a more innocent and trusting mindset, less baggage, all that good stuff. All good for practicing Game.

    Like


  23. Well in one aspect the person quoted in the article is correct. IF ( notice how big that if is? ) a guy is going out every night 7 nights a week to go pickup women, then yes, there is no time to work on a car or chop firewood or go to a ballgame or take a hike etc, because every night from Happy Hour to Bar Close, you are in the bars/clubs trying to pick up women. Extreme example but valid to the person’s point.

    Like


  24. So you PUA guys finally admit there’s more to life than chasing pussy?

    Like