Overgaming, Part 2

A reader asks:

Is it possible to win back an ex after overgaming?  My cocky/funny became cocky.  The only time I was beta was at the three week mark when I tried to ger her back – I cried.  Is there a more long-term strategy to win an ex back?

Have you ever been with a girl who was incredibly sarcastic? Where every word out of her mouth was some sort of cutting riposte, usually of the annoying “exaggerate for effect” kind of sarcasm, her sneer permanently plastered to her face? What did you think of her? You probably thought she was amusing at first, but then, after a full night listening to her bitter ironies, you became irritated by her company. She was obnoxious, and, more importantly, less feminine than when you knew her before she opened her mouth.

Girls feel the same thing when they meet a man who is too cocky. They are attracted at first (who is this guy who dares speak with such insolence!), then, as it becomes clear that cockiness is the only gear he knows, he loses his alpha allure. Finally, the girl will want to get away from him and his arrogant posturing.

Cockiness that isn’t leavened with knowing humor or calculated flashes of vulnerability can quickly burden a man with the perception that he is an arrogant, insecure prick. Or worse, a weak, insecure try-hard. These things are anathema to women’s attraction triggers. A woman is likely to think an overly cocky man to be compensating for some shortcoming. An overly cocky man reveals his flaws just as surely as a supplicating man does; approval seeking is at the heart of all insecure behavior. Whereas the supplicating man’s “tell” is obvious, the cocky man’s tell is discernible through the thick smokescreen of caustic one-liners he belches up around himself.

If you watch the great alpha male characters on TV (Don Draper comes to mind, atm), ask yourself how often they are verbally cocky? The answer is not often. (Nonverbal cockiness, otoh, is a trait that should wear on you like a custom-tailored suit wherever you are.) They will intersperse their cockiness with, in turns, humor, sincerity, wit, genuine anger and laconic bemusement. In general, per screen minute, they speak less than other male characters, but when they do speak their words carry weight. They are not dancing monkeys or butthurt douchebags, which are impressions the perpetually cocky man usually brings upon himself.

This reader has problems with his frame of neediness that go way beyond excessive cockiness. A man who cries to a girl three weeks after a breakup is a man who is far too emotionally invested and clingy to effectively imbue himself with the proper tingle-generating mentality of pussy abundance. No amount of tactical game will help him with his ex. He needs to rebuild from the ground up.

Once he’s mastered the correct frame (or masculine psychological balance, in more explanatory words), he’ll find it effortless, and natural, to tinge his cockiness with humor, to approach women, including his ex, from a place of emotional distance, and to set the stage for a reconciliation should one be possible.

In his case, I do not think one is possible. He needs to extract his ex from his life at once, and begin the journey away from her and toward other women. How will a man know when he’s got the right frame? Here’s a simple test: One hour after a breakup, are you able to go outside, meet a new woman, smile at her and have a conversation with her like a normal cool dude? And after that conversation, do you mentally rewind to yourself “Boy, I wish my ex could’ve seen me with her”, or do you say to yourself “Cool chick. I should have gone for the number close.”

Get the answers to the above right, and you’ll be in the winning headspace.


  1. Or do you say to yourself, “Cool chick. I hope that even better looking girl I’m going to talk to now is just as cool.”


  2. Three weeks? How is it possible to give that much of a fuck about a girl in three weeks? Unless the reader is a character in some bullshit rom-com.


  3. I do find contrast works wonders. Often I’ll respond to what a girl says with some witty humour. She’ll laugh, and ask what I really think. And I’ll say some meaningful serious mumbojumbo which she’ll lap up like a thirsty dog.


    • This works very well for dealing with the typical SWPL BS progressivism.


      • Yeah. I’ve made some efforts to read silly magazines like Cosmo and Vogue so I can understand how female philosophical views form and speak like a progressive. When I give advice in the same style as an advice column women love it.

        Most white women are fairly dysfunctional too, so it’s easy to give advice. I could say. “Men don’t like it when you repeatedly insult their manhood and rarely laugh.” Orr.

        “There are certain special things men crave to be satisfied in a relationship. Most men are quite tight lipped about this, but I like you so here goes. Life, as you know, isn’t like in the movies. Bad things happen. If you get hung up on a mishap and start advising him, that’ll ruin the mood. But if you laugh with him, you can bond with him.”


  4. Having an alpha attitude is equal to breathing: you can’t really over-consume air, and you can’t over-game those around you.

    The issue at hand in dealing with subordinates, be it employees, friends or women, is that you have to only deal with people who are replaceable, and learn from those who appear to be not replaceable until you’ve learned enough and can replace them.

    As long as a woman knows she’s not replaceable, you lose. The minute that she realizes she is replaceable, she’ll fall into line, and YOU can decide when to replace her.

    You don’t “win back” an ex. You win back your own time, money and power by making her replaceable, and then replacing her.


    • Excellent thought! I’m going to have to use this mindframe. Independence is freedom.


    • She’s replacable, and you let her know that – but only to get something from her.

      The rest of the time you make her feel she’s irreplaceable.

      You make her feel loved, cherished, special, AND replaceable in an instant.

      Merely replaceable won’t make a devoted love slave out of her. Nor will merely cherished.


    • Well said. I’ve never thought about “replacability” being the key to having hand in a relationship, but you’re completely right. That’s what it comes down to.


  5. Yup – exactly right. There is no worse feeling you can bestow on a man than being too emotionally invested in a woman. It is self defeating, it is powerless, it is devastating to your sense of value and it will totally destroy you. Your comment of “you need to build from the ground up” is so right. You must extract yourself from the cancer that is your ex. She has destroyed your self worth and self being which in turn caused you to kill the attraction. The only way out is up. Get back to basics, get back to the newbie mission and start punching the clock, working the bars and lounges four nights a week, 10 approaches a day minimum. Only then will you return that cancer of a woman to the value she deserves; which is just another piece of pussy in a long line of pussy that is out there to tap.

    Man – great post.


  6. A girl I know recently said, “There are two types of guys in this world: the ones that want to marry you, and the ones that are so ‘chill’ they’re icy.”

    Moderation, my friends.


  7. Have you ever been with a girl who was incredibly sarcastic? Where every word out of her mouth was some sort of cutting riposte…

    Women always – always – get this part wrong: they insult and use sarcasm for social standing’s sake. Not so much to advance courtship or seduction.

    Because they suck at humor, they give the impression of shrewishness. Many are one-trick ponies.


  8. Iron Rule of Tomassi #7
    It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. Never root through the trash once the garbage has been dragged to the curb. You get messy, your neighbors see you do it, and what you thought was worth digging for is never as valuable as you thought it was.



    • It’s a common weak spot – one I share with most of us. I put it down to lazyness and habit. The ex who went nuts who we could ring up and fuck.

      But we know it wouldn’t be the same. And we know that the spark could happen again – but with a fresh girl.

      Lazyness and habit.


  9. I have a big overgaming problem, especially in my small-ish town. Difficult for me to not give off the player vibe. I tend to go for self-deprecating, silly humor to lighten this and show I don’t take myself seriously. Doesn’t work great though, probably because i’m still being too much of a comedian.

    Would be interested to hear your thoughts on effectively transitioning to a place where i’m not verbally sparring with a girl all the damn time. Getting stuck there way too much lately.


    • Never spar with a woman, then. If you do, you’ve made her your focus and then-priority.

      Always have a reason to turn your back towards a woman, even if you’re both alone on a deserted island. She: “I really hate it when you say another woman’s name while railing me, it’s not like anyone else is here.” You: (turn) “Whoa, look at the size of those coconuts!”


    • If you think of NLP principles, to manipulate the girls mind, you weave into the conversation positive associations.

      Direct confrontation has it’s place, but it’s the same place that punishment has.

      Generally you want to be a vibe that she enjoys.


    • I gamed 3 women today – and was cocky with all 3. Cockiness is a useful tool in your arsenal. But I leavened it with genuine warmth, a little humor, all of these interwoven into the threads of the conversation we were having (in fact, 3 separate 1-on-1 conversations). The frame I would suggest to you is this: she is not important enough to spar with – dont pedestalize the pussy – the ripostes have to be from a position of bemused mastery where – in your mind – the relative importance of the two parties – you and the pussy – is crystal clear. When it is clear, you will find the words you need to leaven the jousting in a way as to avoid overgaming.


    • If your conversations with a girl resemble a game of ping pong, you aren’t taking a wide enough view. She says something, you hear it, and riposte back to her side of the table a different way to look at things, she returns your volley with another counterpoint, and so on.

      You want instead to have an ariel view, and play from both sides of the table at once. Be the ball. Be the girl. Be the table. She says something, you internalize her frame of reference and understand her motivations – preferably better than she understands her own motivations. The you respond not to what she says, but to her motivations. So you might respond with silence. Or you might take what she says and agree with it, but twist her words just a bit so that what you are agreeing with is a completely different viewpoint to what she originally said. You want to focus on the mood, the underlying direction of the mood, the tone, and her motivations. And above all – don’t let her suck you into her wordplay. Use non sequiturs and silence more than witty ripostes. Control the frame, and the mood – don’t win the argument.


  10. Another test of internalized bad-boy attitude. Can you soulfully belt out a full voiced rendition of Leanord Skynard’s Freebird to a hot woman you are currently in love with?

    And mean it?


  11. Flashes of vulnerability are key here. If you are acting cocky and deflecting questions as usual, you need to sprinkle in legit conversations that show vulnerability. Not vulnerability in the sense you are crying because your daddy touched you at age 8, but in the sense of being real and exposing something she wouldn’t expect you to expose.

    The key, as with everything with game, is to do it from a confident frame and the way to do that is to offer such flashes of vulnerability without expectation of anything in return. It is almost universal that even with the bitchiest of bitches, girls cannot help but respond to such expressions, but it is pure gold when done after establishing an alpha frame.


    • Once I was gaming a girl pretty hard in a bar. Being overly cocky and sarcastic. Playfully nitpicking every little thing she did. Of course we all know that this meant I was a “challenge” or whatever so I eventually leave the bar with her to head back to her place.

      On the way there, we were walking/talking (verbal sparring, playing around, etc.) through the dorms and I paused for a second letting her walk a bit in front of me. She turned around and was like “What is it?” and I said “I have something to tell you”. She sort of rolled her eyes and was like “uh oh, what is it now” as though I was going to let rip some other cocky or sarcastic comment. Instead I walked up to her slow like and looked at her and said “your eyes catch light like two blue diamonds”.

      Cheezy shit, I know (I said it kinda slow and dramatically), but her jaw dropped and her eyes lit up… and she basically threw me up against a wall and started making out with me pretty intensely after that. Of course, though, I continued on with more cockiness afterwards, even while f*cking.

      Vulnerable (or even romantic) crap has its place in game. It’s the icing on the cake really: but you can’t have an entire cake made up of icing; there’s gotta be a huge amount of other substance there.


  12. ” Here’s a simple test: One hour after a breakup, are you able to go outside, meet a new woman, smile at her and have a conversation with her like a normal cool dude? And after that conversation, do you mentally rewind to yourself “Boy, I wish my ex could’ve seen me with her”, or do you say to yourself “Cool chick. I should have gone for the number close.””

    How about option 3:

    You get her number so you can fuck her later?

    Or option 4:

    After breaking up with your ex, a few days later you are banging a new girl you met at a club?


  13. Should you ever tell a girl you think she’s pretty or something along those lines in the first minutes of meeting? Stupid question?


    • I’ve heard disagreement about this question. The game principle I’ve heard described is that if the girls is hotter than you, she’ll need to look up to you, and so you have to be very cautious not to put out vibes that you consider her a stretch to reach, or even the prize.

      However I’ve found that you can show strong sexual appreciation, without putting the girl on a sexual pedestal. I’m not confident that eloquence will convey the frame and attitude, but here goes:

      Step 1) previously have fucked a lot of pretty girls, in an intimate way, with many of those being passionate love affairs, many being flings, many being fuck buddies, many being anonymous one night stands.
      Step 2) Look at the girl as if she is perfectly attainable, and hold the mood that you are the sun – just beaming down on a lovely piece of beauty that has presented itself. You are neither grasping nor trying not to grasp. You are lustily holding her in your experienced, warm, friendly and sexy gaze. She is being appreciated by your attention.


  14. Thank you for the situational alpha lessons, this one is well-timed for me.



  15. oneitis is bad, m’kay?


  16. David Deangelo fucked up alot of guys by turning them into over-cocky fools. His book isn’t bad. I still refer it to new guys but also explain that over gaming is really strange.

    I used to date this hot little number, and she was just like you described: An annoying little testy thing. At first I found it endearing and was eager to discover my blind sticking points, but later realized she was just an insecure mess.


    • I agree, though this blog does cause the same as well. Not enough attention is focused on actual relationship details and DeAngelo’s “Become Mr. Right” program strays too much from cocky/funny.


  17. I like the distinction b/w verbal cockiness versus non-verbal cockiness. That follows from the understanding that nonverbal cues i.e. what she does rather than what she says, are the more important aspect of Game – the seducer side versus the seducee side.

    There are then 4 choices:
    1. Non-cocky demeanor and non-cocky speech
    2. Non-cocky demeanor and cocky speech
    3. Cocky demeanor and non-cocky speech
    4. Cocky demeanor and cocky speech.

    In order from worst to best, IMO, 2, 4, 1, 3.


  18. OT: hilariously misandrist article about fathers and testosterone in today’s NYT:


    It’s disgusting to read through the anti-male inanities spoken by feminist “scientists” and their maginae enablers.

    These people are f’ing monsters.


    • ““Humans give birth to incredibly dependent infants. Historically, the idea that men were out clubbing large animals and women were staying behind with babies has been largely discredited. The only way mothers could have highly needy offspring every couple of years is if they were getting help.” ”

      I love how this scientist is implicitly implying strict monogamy is how hunter-gatherer societies worked.


  19. The PUA wannabees who become too cocky are overwhelmed with the asshole concept. They hear that bad boys have it all, so they act in the worst possible ways they can imagine.
    They simply forget the most important rule :”be charming”. Yes, be fucking charming because that’s the foundation of any seduction process.
    The pussyhound assholes are charming assholes. They use their assholery with parcimony and they know how to mindfuck a girl. Mindfucking requires ruthlessness, charm and creativity.
    That’s why i’m still on the pua blogs. Being an asshole is easy, I get it. The other aspects need regular updates.


    • Agree. Its the same thing that happens when AFCs get the idea that being alpha is being an asshole to everyone, and that will help them bang chics.

      Agree, being an asshole is very easy. And is useful from time to time, but being an asshole ball the time is not alpha, nor effective pu strategy.


    • Overgaming still works because the law of supply and demand never fails in an unencumbered market.

      Take two massive oversupplies: 1) throngs of sheepish betas who have swallowed the feminist lie about the nature of women, and 2) mobs of ideologically confused girls with an open-slot policy. The median transaction will therefore be a woman playing easy-to-get matching with a guy who, from birth, needs only to play down to the low level of female standards. Why try so hard when chicks get drunk and fuck the closest, passable dick available? Just be in the right place at the right time, like Seth Rogan in Knocked Up.

      Now here comes The Asshole Autodidact who gleaned one killer PUA revelation by reading one website one time. Putting his secret wisdom into action marginally distinguishes him from the drab gray sausage party, and he corners the market of trim in his little burg on the cheap.

      So Matador hits on something important. You don’t have to be much better to beat your competition, and it’s not hard to outpace the competition when they are a gaggle of sad awkward social retards or an entourage of hopped-up fratboy spazzes. Beating those boys by a red cunt hair is still winning. But your victory is false and short-lived, and your conquests of lower quality than you are capable of conquering if you aren’t striving for mastery.

      Why try so hard, though, when a few calculated mindfucks will work just fine?

      Throwing your rod into an overstocked pond of starving snappers doesn’t make you a champion angler. Lay down a dragnet in this skank-thick environment and you’ll catch enough clam for a clambake.

      There is relative game and then there is absolute game. Relative game: you don’t have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun your friend. Absolute game: you wrestle the bear, tear its heart out, and wear his skin as a robe, his head a crown.

      (Also: turn your “competition” into collaborators. Cooperation can be manly, be they wingman, sniper spotter, co-pilot, or Alec Baldwin-who’s-banging-your-wife-in-this movie.)


  20. @random

    Just speak less. Practice holding eye-contact with a woman without feeling like you need to say anything.


  21. Concerning the last tweet, if this is what comment moderation means (waiting for the host to log in, and have a whole bunch of new comments at once), i prefer to put up with the undesirable comments.
    Or maybe this is just wordpress fucking up. It would be better to let the comments appear normally, and then erase those that the host deems unnecessary.


    • Obviously he shut down comments in solemn observance of September 11, 2011.

      He’s proud to be an American, where at least he knows he’s free. And he’s proud to thank the men who died who gave that right to him. So he proudly stood up next to us and defended her yesterday. There ain’t no doubt he loves this land. God bless the USA.


  22. […] sort of, over at Citizen Renegade, is this snippet from a piece on over-gaming: Have you ever been with a girl who was incredibly […]


  23. The important thing is to be genuinely relaxed, without which nothing else can work. 50mg of Atenolol will genuinely relax you.


  24. Isn’t overgaming the kind of problem that you only acquire when your game is beginning to improve? It’s a dodgy habit, but it’s also one most folks naturally grow out of when they learn to calibrate social interactions.

    In other words, don’t recovering betas face greater threats? What to do when conversations lag, for example.


  25. This clarification was wayyy overdue. Excellent post. Keep them coming.


  26. Also, seems to me that our commenters main issue is his oneitis which is poisoning his game


  27. Random

    Develop the art of hitting the girl/woman with a comment she was not expecting and cannot fully understand. Then be willing to be silent for a while as she struggles to process your meaning.
    In other words, never “spar” with a female. Always aggress; frequently surprise them with what you say. It is really not hard to surprise them. At least well enough to tamp down any “sparring”.
    Learn to keep them a little off-balance. It is not so different than learning to be a successful wrestler or kick-boxer.


  28. I’m glad you mentioned the symptom of men overgaming and the primary reason’s why some inexperienced men or boys engage in this behavior: insecurity. I watched many a newb PUA attempt to so-called DHV, and at least 85-90% of the time these dudes appear as if they are trying too hard to impress the women that are within there surroundings, and lack the main ingredient when interacting with women: emotional rapport. You have to placing the women in the frame of mind that you want her to experience.

    When I see guys display these types of behavior I can tell they just discovered David DeAngelo or Mystery,quite pathetic. Verbally sparring with a chik is cool if there is sexual tension developing throughout these displays of persona, if not your wasting your time. As a man develops his own unique perspective on life, his need for intimacy for the sake of intimacy diminishes.
    Side note I was watching Divorce Court with my chik, and there was this particular couple on the program that kind of intrigued me. The woman was stating she was no longer happy within her relationship, yet refused to get a DNA test on their daughter. Finally this told her husband the dark truth that the child wasn’t his. I kept repeating to my chik that this skank knew she had tricked a man into taking care of her bastard seed. I next stated that most men have no idea that their women could have given birth to another man’s seed, and like an unsuspecting schmuk, he( the gameless dude) is raising,providing benefits for and nuturing some other man’s child. Then in my best Snoop Dogg impersonation I declared ” That’s why a player can’t trust these hoes,you gotta be Magnum PI. wit’ a bitch!” Then she started laughing her ass off! Men once a woman knows that you know the game and can see it, call ,it and respond accordingly to any given situation, the ratio of shit tests/nagging to penile maintainance by cheerful lip service is inversed. I purposely do shit just to see how my chik is goning to react,and never give into her unless I feel it suits my purpose. My last 3 chiks have told me besides the customary I love you, that the primary reason they love me is because I don’t let them win in the relationship, and that they wished they had met me sooner in life. Game, gentelmen will aleviate many a headaches in a relationship and life period. Plus when you know you can leave a woman and find another one just as hot if not hotter, your mind set goes from supplication to that of a postion of power.


  29. > a place where i’m not verbally sparring with a girl all the damn time

    I’ve fallen into this now and then because I can talk rings around them. Are you enjoying the sparring too much? Know when to say when.


  30. I wrote about this about a year ago. A cure for it is to disappear or simply shut up.

    A girl I’m gaming and constantly busting on recently came over to chat with me….I dropped the whole cocky-funny and just played it more cool and calm.

    The cue for this was she sat down to chat…so she dropped her guard.

    If you over-game, don’t suddenly under-game…..pull-back gradually so that when you go back to cocky-funny it doesn’t seem like such an act.


    • I don’t warm up unless they’ve already proven themselves at least partially.

      There are just too many pretty AND low maintenance women. If she even hints at high maintenance, I don’t warm up, I play hard to get, I LJBF and I use her insanity for social proof.

      How many women pass your first contact tests? 5%? 3%? Then again, I spend my time in 5 big cities, so there’s multitudes to go through. If you’re in a smaller town, tight knit reputation has more importance.


  31. I sent two messages on facebook to two girls the other day asking to meet them for coffee this week. Both girls go to my uni. One of them actually suggested coffee earlier but I didnt have time. The other one was really eager/flirty/giggly/puppydog eyes etc etc the last time I saw her, which was just for 5 min in between lectures.

    Fucking NEITHER of them replied. I was positive both would. What the fuck.

    I have no idea what happened but I can accept it and move on, BUT…

    It is so fucking hard to be confident when you’ve had very little success and no sex in 10 months. God damn. How the fuck am I supposed to tell myself “all women want me” etc when I’ve been flaked on and ignored like this? How do I do it? I dont have that sort of cognitive dissonance.

    [Heartiste: Whoa, settle down. Perspective my friend. Two girls. TWO girls. That’s a sample size too small. One’s ex came back and she opened her anus for him. The other changed her mind after a bout of PMS. Nothing you did. Now get back to us after hitting up twenty girls and we’ll see if it’s something with your game.]


    • Chief,

      It happens to everyone. And most of us have to approach way more than 2 girls. Not even a super alpha gets 50% of girls he approaches.

      So get back on the horse. But do try to avoid Facebook, it tends to give women an inflated sense of self-esteem.

      And happy hunting. Chances are your game is grand


    • Facebook?

      The medium is the message. Facebook is for women, minorities, and Friends of Dorothy.

      You’re so money and you don’t even know it, brah! What are you doing diddling your love bean on social media?

      Virtual social structures are efficient, sometimes necessary, and often the most effective means of communication. But they are also a simulacrum, where the hard work of socializing is made entirely too easy. They make you flabby.

      Worse: they constantly connect you. How do you demonstrate aloofness being attached to everything 24-7? Facebook is game kryptonite, made by and for omegas with social anxiety. Use it sparingly or in last resort, and make that policy of detachment the primary statement of your superiority in a world of autistic keyboard cowards.

      I know it’s different for the generation coming up, who never knew a world without texting and tweeting. All the more reason to pursue the rock solid basics of human interaction with which we all eventually must reckon, unless you’re sure we are mere moments away from achieving the teledildonic singularity.


      This ain’t Demolition Man, young apprentice. We’re not in the Brave New World of feelies and soma. At least not yet. Learn the ways of the ancients and your elders, because just when everybody thinks technology has made your skills irrelevant, you will be the one-eyed king in the land of the blind.


    • on September 13, 2011 at 8:52 pm Obstinance Works

      Take them for ice cream and a walk in a park. Coffee no good unless she’s sitting at Barnes and Nobles (Buns n’ Nipples as I call it). But otherwise move forward. Always be going one step more in the seduction phase. If you are having trouble setting up a date after a good open, establishing value, rapport, then comfort; then contemplate what part of your game is slowing you down. Read some material on that aspect and hone it for a month or more. Make a game of it. It’s all play it’s all fluff. Yes like work in a way, but never serious.

      No shame in rubbing one out after a long day with no play. Find a way to take the edge off and excite the senses. And no I don’t mean booze or drugs. Find someone or something that inspires you.

      Stay steady on your path. You can only get better.


    • The first one who suggested coffee earlier got back to me, like 5 days late. Apparently she didnt see the message. Hmm


  32. I will keep trying but I dont think I’m giving it 100% when shit like this happens.

    I’ll build up a social circle from uni eventually, and I’m sure by then I’ll have less girls flake on me, but fuck… How the hell do I smile and move on from something like this? Its really hard


    • I did the same as you, years go when I had FB, except with ten women. Got three responses: One rejection, one flake and one date. “Approaches” are cheap on facebook, common for women to receive, and inexpensive for men to execute. You weren’t there in person, so she couldn’t observe your body language, the tone and tempo of your voice, or piercing eye contact. FB is just a proxy. You may as well have asked her out through her grandmother.


    • > How the hell do I smile and move on from something like this? Its really hard

      Call the girl you didn’t have time for on the phone. Ignore the giddy flake. FB is a hall of mirrors, so get out of it. You’re developing a bad habit of one-itis by investing each individual approach with too much expectation. (You probably also have too high an opinion of their worth.) Detach and develop the counter-habit: every time you ask one girl for a meet-up, wait one day, and then ask another. If the first girl is silent or flakes, you’ll have another expectation to fall back on.

      Girls have the most power when they’re not being physically confronted by a man. Get off FB. Text as little as possible. Don’t let them turn you into a figment, a plaything. Confront them physically.


      • Thanks for the responses.

        I used Facebook on the first one because I was just finishing up an essay and I wanted to seal the deal for a meetup that week by asking her early.

        I used it for the second one because I didnt get her number (silly me) and I didnt know when I was going to see her again – I’m not in any of her lectures.

        I do very much prefer to ask in person, because of the mentioned body language, tonality etc. I feel much stronger, much more confident to ask in person, but I didnt know when I was going to see them again. Its a shame because it looked like I had it in the bag with the second one.

        I think I’ll just not send messages on Facebook anymore. I never commented anyones photos or made status updates in the first place, but now I’ll use it even less; I’ll just use it to dhv (photos of me and women).


    • Ask us out in person. Much more social pressure to say yes (god it’s hard for me to reject guys – even though my rock solid excuse has been ‘I have a boyfriend’ for years), much higher possibility of sexual tension which makes us *want* to say yes. I’d assume first dates via text, email and FB have a very low success rate even if girls do like the guy asking.


  33. on September 12, 2011 at 11:09 pm Finger's Breath

    This was a great post. I wish Heartiste would make more relationship posts so I would read him more often. With so much emphasis on pickup, I feel like I have an arsenal of tools for the field. I still would like to know a more long-term strategy to win an ex back though.


    • If you are still seeking a “long-term” way to win back an ex, you clearly need to go back to post #1 and re-read all of the archives here.

      When you “win” an ex back, you don’t win.


    • on September 13, 2011 at 9:02 pm Obstinance Works

      A relationship is a building. You are the foundation. You have to be strong enough to hold it up. If you’re too weak to handle the rejection of one women, you are now at square one. There may be tactics, but no long-term strategy.


  34. on September 12, 2011 at 11:15 pm Obstinance Works

    Maybe this is my problem, but I feel you can never be too cocky to a woman whoever she is. Break that bitch and mold her. Of course you can’t be the be the man in every situation, sometimes you have to placate to the higher powers. That’s when I slink like a snake to get what I want. But that’s just me.


  35. on September 12, 2011 at 11:20 pm Obstinance Works

    Don’t approach women. Just have something to say when something should be said—and only then. You can consider this something carefully, but don’t compose. A simple idea will do. With failure—honest failure—the lesson alters vision and vision becomes instinct, a means of navigating your way through any conversation.

    –Don Draper


  36. i find it incredibly sweet that he could cry trying to win her back after only three weeks. she may not appreciate it or find it attractive. so what? her loss.

    we all try ever so hard to tell the world that we are strong and independent without realizing, perhaps, we are overpaying for that strength and independence. there comes to a point when we have managed to convince ourselves that people are interchangable, and we are fine with anyone or rid of anyone. i am sure that is the right attitude if life span is infinite. but in a limited life time, luck matters a great deal. it is possible or even plausible that one born believing there is that special someone dies happy and lucky still believing it. a weak moment of crying and trying to win someone back is a nice assurance that one has not lost his optimism. those tears are worth it even though they may not save the relationship.


    • on September 13, 2011 at 12:00 pm Wang Chung Long

      If this was only how women work. A man gets bit enough he sees the dark side of women which is her laughing at this poor fella as he is pouring his hear out. Not only is she laughing, she probably texted some asshole ex who screwed her over a while back asking him if he wants to bang friday night. Women are women. You can’t ignore reality.


    • “i find it incredibly sweet that he could cry trying to win her back after only three weeks. she may not appreciate it or find it attractive. so what? her loss.”

      This post can serve as a warning to all aspiring puas. Never listen to what girls say they find sweet or attractive; there are a shit ton of assumptions girls undergrid their responses with that, if you aren’t aware of, will completely demolish your game.

      When a girl makes a comment like this, the first thing she imagines is some completely unattainable alpha like Jesus or Superman; someone whose loss of alpha points due to tears at 3 weeks is
      infinitely negligible compared to their original sum total alpha ideation.

      No one is as alpha as what our imagination produces, because what’s not real will always be more powerful than what’s real.

      You can bet 3 high end whores and a trip to the Carribean that she’s not presupposing your average beta bumkin down the street when she dreams of having a man cry over her only after knowing her for 3 weeks.


      • This is exactly it.

        “a girl” has a vision of the perfect male in her mind (Superjesus but probably with cooler clothes and a better sense of humor) for her sweet, sweet crybaby.

        Name a dude besides me that can shed a single tear after 3 weeks and still be alpha in a girl’s mind. I’m not even sure I can pull it off.


      • Btw ladies, I accidentally put my email in the name place (even Superjesus fucks up now and then). But please don’t email me at that address. I rarely check it and it is not even synced with my iPhone.


      • “Name a dude besides me that can shed a single tear after 3 weeks and still be alpha in a girl’s mind. I’m not even sure I can pull it off.”

        You’re a pussy.


      • That was a good comment. Why not dignify it with an auth ors name? A post is more of a post when it is a post said by someone.

        We have the rule of thumb that you can tell a girl you love her once for every three times she tells you. If the girl would not cry for you three times, she has too much hand if you cry for her once. Suck it up and swallow.


    • Perfect generic epigram from “a girl,” befitting her generic name.

      Your new agey chick-crack space religion will avail you about as well as it did Marshall Applewhite on his courageous exodus to Hale-Bopp.

      You are sympathetic for tears because they remind you of you, a sisterly affection bordering on pity that is poison to true male-female attraction. Every reformed beta who ever cried in front of a woman knows this in his gut, and he cringes to remember those days. And when you are honest with yourself, you cringe just as much.

      Your boyfriend cries after sex, but that’s no justification for a categorical imperative, babydoll, no matter how well it justifies the domestication of your sad little helpmeet beta eunuch, who snuggles and sniffles and spoons with you while watching Lifetime Movie Network.

      My God, girl! Make it a challenge! You are a big fat fish in a barrel. It’s not just your faulty assessment of the dynamic that’s dangerous for you. It’s your firm belief that you’ve got it all figured out. When reality hits you, it will be like stepping off a curb in front of a bus, probably in the form of a fuck from a guy you “hate.” Why oh why is the sex so good? Why can’t sweet, harmless, vulnerable, crybaby Ethan make love to me like that? What a terrible contradiction! What coincidence!


    • hey, guyz, you might have misunderstood me.

      i was not advocating that you guyz should cry in order to save a relationship. neither was i fantasizing about an alpha, beta, omega or jesus while making that comment. what i tried but failed to say was that “don’t cry over the crying; it’s really not that bad.” treating it as a knee-jerk test, the fact that he cried in that situation suggests there is a good chance that he believes in love, and has got the instinct to fight for it. in a limited life span, believing in love and willing to fight for it can be a happiness enhancing strategy… if he is lucky enough. that’s all.


      • Nope nope nope.

        Sincere crying is always bad. You are attempting to turn it into a virtue because it is a vulnerability you can exploit. You have been made privy to his weakness, which yes indeed is “attractive,” but only attractive insofar as you feel privileged to have rare access to an otherwise strong man’s secret. Like being the only person in the world who can be trusted to know that kryptonite kills Superman. Wow, you sense, I must be special!

        Crying is not just a candid admission of a vulnerability; every man has flaws, and admitting one’s limits is a sign of strength. No, more than admitting weakness, crying indicates a loss of control over that weakness. It is emotional incontinence. Admitting and handling one’s disadvantages is manly, like a paraplegic who walks with his hands and makes jokes about putting his “best foot forward” even as the condescending effete want only to pity him.

        “I find it incredibly sweet” is so condescending and so natural to you that you have no idea of the damage such an attitude creates. But thank you for the reminder of female nature, and the opportunity for us to rip off your mask. Despite being mocked since its inception, the sensitive male mythos has persisted like a hard-to-eradicate weed. The idea will vanish completely with the death of the boomers. See how far clinging to that myth gets you as a practice, and report back to us your progress. Your case study in rationalization will help us.


  37. Completely off topic but relevant to the blogs main theme:

    Fatherhood ‘lowers testosterone to keep men loyal’



  38. Very true. A little cockiness gets you noticed. Too much cockiness is a sign of insecurity.


  39. It’s so good to have you back. You have had a profound positive effect on my life. When the other site went down, I had a sense of regret that I never dropped a quick message telling you so.

    Thank you for all you do. You saved my life. If you ever make it to Atlanta, the first round is on me.


  40. I had a similar experience, although I did not cry. I engineered an amazing pickup of an HB9 by setting a date and F-closing in less than 24 hrs. We dated for 2 months after that, and I was just sailing along but let my cockiness get in the way. I pushed too hard for sex one night and she freaked out because I was too pushy and her abusive past came into play. She said her ex raped her and when I was pushing for sex when she wasn’t feeling it, it triggered her defenses. After that, it was all downhill. I became over-apologetic and she became more and more distant. It eventually ended in a fizzle and I tried the 3 weeks method of contacting her again and it just didn’t work.

    I came off as desperate, needy, and soft after that night and that, coupled with her abusive past and emotional wreck of a disposition, really made for a horrible cocktail of failure. Ever since then, I have not gotten my inner game back in line because it was a huge blow to my confidence. In fact, I gave up on game altogether for about 2 months and took a step back and removed some pressure from myself to pick up women all the time. Im finally back in a headspace where I am gonna go back to the drawing board and start picking up new women again. It sucks when you are dealt a blow like that, but you can come back stronger and learn from it. I know I have.


    • I have a take on this you might find interesting. Not the usual PUA take.

      We know that women are attracted to the bad boys spinning many plates. But what we often forget is that women also like to bond with real romance.

      When you take a few months out, this is re-setting your system so that you can fall in love again.

      PUAs will usually put down such an attitude. Get innured, they will say. Find and fuck 20 other girls. The mood of the aspiring PUA seems to be to learn to avoid feelings like rejection and attachment.

      But my experience has been that the ability to love and bond is VERY attractive – when it’s combined with the alpha traits PUAs commonly discuss.


  41. So what is the long-term strategy to get back with an ex?


  42. “Have you ever been with a girl who was incredibly sarcastic? Where every word out of her mouth was some sort of cutting riposte, usually of the annoying “exaggerate for effect” kind of sarcasm, her sneer permanently plastered to her face? What did you think of her? You probably thought she was amusing at first, but then, after a full night listening to her bitter ironies, you became irritated by her company. She was obnoxious, and, more importantly, less feminine than when you knew her before she opened her mouth.”

    This so correctly describes a girl that I work with on occasion. It’s so annoying. It makes me wish we’d never let women in the workplace. The teasing/nitpicking for “entertainment” gets old so fast. Some people just don’t know how to hold back for the sake of a smooth work environment/process. Go figure, she’s in her early 20’s.