Beta Of The Year Contest

Randall Parker, writer of two blogs that I read (Parapundit.com and Futurepundit.com), suggested I run a BOTY on-going contest in which the readers submit links to beta candidates. I liked the idea, so I’ve set up a separate page at the top and right of my blog where you can leave your links to betas in the comments.

At the end of each month, I will select two betas from among the monthly reader submissions for a vote to determine the Beta Of The Month (BOTM) winner. If your link is the winning BOTM, I will buy you a beer and sarge with you if you’re in town.

At the end of the year, there will be a final reader vote to crown the illustrious Beta Of The Year all-around winner from the twelve BOTM winners. Prize for the winning BOTY link has yet to be decided.

Happy hunting!

Tip: If you like to win, you want to keep a sharp eye for the most pathetic, cringeworthy betas possible. The New York Times is usually a good source for stories involving these kinds of betas.





Comments


  1. NOTE: Don’t submit your beta links in the comments to this post. Submit them in the comments to the separate page titled “Beta Of The Year Contest Submissions” at the top and right of the blog.

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  2. Roissy, I bet this works well.

    Keep an eye out for omegas getting submitted as betas. That Army private marrying that really fat chick was an omega. You might need to intervene and “promote” some of the reader submissions into a separate omega category.

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  3. So what’s the line between beta and omega?

    Omega is just “had no chance in life” like born with downs syndrome and beta is just “let the world walk all over you”?

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  4. good point on drawing a distinction between betas and omegas. in a way, the beta is a more contemptible creature than the omega, because some of his failures with women are self inflicted.

    i’ll filter out the obvious omega candidates. for example: homeless bums, extremely ugly underclass men who hook up with obese whales, and furries.

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  5. Hey Roissy, this is a submission for your Bitch of the Month contest that I hope you start soon.

    http://www.theledger.com/article/20081224/NEWS/812240286?Title=Woman_Accused_of_Biting_Hubby_s_Thingy_#

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  6. thought experiment:

    if i were to submit a link to either david alexander’s blog or one of his comments on this site in each one of the twelve months of 2009, in how many of those months would i be in the running for BOTM?

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  7. Roissy, you have ruined my Omega brand watch for me!

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  8. if i were to submit a link to either david alexander’s blog or one of his comments on this site in each one of the twelve months of 2009, in how many of those months would i be in the running for BOTM?

    all of them, which is why i have preemptively disqualified any and all DA submissions by the readers. he’s a low hanging fruit.

    Roissy, you have ruined my Omega brand watch for me!

    watch fobs are alpha.

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  9. i vote seal, for not only
    * not blinking an eye at her nonchalant revelation of her pregnancy by another man,
    but also
    * supposedly falling more in love with her for it.

    yes, i know, i know, but just let these sink in:

    (1)
    “And she had a surprise for the singer after their first night together – she was expecting a baby.
    Seal says, “I laughed and said, ‘Already? That’s amazing!’ She said, ‘Not with you stupid’. ” (here)

    (2)
    “We couldn’t do the casual dating thing any more, because in four months there was going to be a baby. I hadn’t seen her for a bit because we were both working, and the next time I saw her, she had a bump. I was like, ‘Wow! You really are pregnant.’
    That was the moment I really fell in love — and I fell in love with both Heidi and the baby. Up until that point, the baby hadn’t been a reality, but seeing Heidi like that brought everything into focus. Itwasn’t a big step to make; it was more a case of, ‘My number’s being called and I’d better be worthy of this.’ ” (here)

    (3)
    “I actually think [actual father Flavio Briatore]’s great in many ways, because a selfish man might want to disrupt the child’s set-up, and he’s clearly not a selfish man. He obviously sees the set-up and leaves it alone.” (same source as #2)
    …so, in seal land, not wanting to see your own kid makes you “great”.

    heidi klum schmeidi klum.
    in my eyes, this is even more beta than it would be for an everyday person, because seal’s celebrity status could get him basically any woman under the sun.
    and if “not with you, stupid” is really what she said, then i think we all know who’s going to wear the pants in this particular setup.

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  10. johnny five, that was one of the most vomitus stories i have ever read. congratulations, you have just submitted the first qualified BOTM candidate.

    et tu, seal?

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  11. “If your link is the winning BOTM, I will buy you a beer and sarge with you if you’re in town.”

    Great prize. A beer and a night out on the town in DC during the winter time.

    Sounds like hell.

    – MPM

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  12. “‘I actually think [actual father Flavio Briatore]’s great in many ways, because a selfish man might want to disrupt the child’s set-up, and he’s clearly not a selfish man. He obviously sees the set-up and leaves it alone.’ (same source as #2)
    …so, in seal land, not wanting to see your own kid makes you ‘great’.”

    Since you all think that stepfathers are beta-providers I’d think you’d find an abandoning father like Briatore fabulously alpha.

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  13. Since you all think that stepfathers are beta-providers I’d think you’d find an abandoning father like Briatore fabulously alpha.

    stop with the strawmen. he NEVER said stepfathers are automatic betas. it’s the specific circumstances of how he became a stepfather that make him beta.

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  14. johnny five, that was one of the most vomitus stories i have ever read. congratulations, you have just submitted the first qualified BOTM candidate.

    et tu, seal?

    Agreed. It’s even worse if you follow their public appearances, where he basically acts like a worshipful whupped puppy dog in tow and makes an ass of himself.

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  15. How about Jon from Jon and Kate plus 8 and the book _Multiple Blessings_. I don’t want to know any of the details about them, but just not saying “the twins are enough, no more fertility drugs for you,” automatically qualifies him.

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  16. I was chatting up a girl at a cosmetics counter when I as at the mall. How do you number close in these kinds of situations?

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  17. I half-jokingly/half-seriously submit Half Sigma for being too chickenshit to allow un-moderated comments on his blog. I guess his feelings got a tad too hurt one too many times.

    I applaud you for keeping blog moderation free (you generally do a good job of using your detractors to make the blog more entertaining).

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  18. What did they say to him to make HS moderate?

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  19. Half Sigma has a lot of weak arguments, and some of his commenters had many strong arguments to counter him. I suspect he became embarrassed, so now he blocks people with good arguments, lets the weak counter arguments through , and just argues with those. (And it goes without saying, if you agree with him, your post will be allowed through) It’s almost like a weird strawman.

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  20. Hello, Flavio Briatore was Naomi’s old squeeze. If I’m not mistaken, Naomi’s mother dated Flavio’s brother as well. They were together for a few years back in the day. Seal is Tyra’s ex. According to rumor, Naomi wanted to rip Heidi apart for digging through her trash.
    There was also a story rumor about Seal fathering a baby with German model Tatiana Patiz. She was the other blonde in the Freedom 90 video. She was in the Supermodel group but never made it as big as the other girls. From what I’ve read, she had a struggle with her weight

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  21. Interesting idea. I think shaming flagrant beta men is a social service to American men in general. In fact, many flagrant betas are simply posing and think it will get them laid more. Sadly, they are sometimes correct.

    BTW, that post on the Catholic Church is right on. I was thinking about the exact same thing recently. However, you have to keep in mind that 1968, as far as the CC is concerned, is pretty much contemporary. Such institutions require a long time to change course, and that requires a great deal of thrust. This being the case, Roissy’s value should be apparent to thinking men.

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  22. In fact, many flagrant betas are simply posing and think it will get them laid more. Sadly, they are sometimes correct.

    do elaborate.
    by whom exactly?

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  23. do elaborate.
    by whom exactly?

    I can’t afford to get that personal at this point. All I can say is that one very wealthy uber-beta told me to my face that he was a “feminist.” His sister writes for the NY Times, and you would recognize his work. He was a teacher before he went big time, and he used to enjoy calling high school boys sexist while he made moves on the fifteen-year-old female students with big tits. If that’s alpha, he took the beta path to get there.

    Heard him on the radio the other day and he hasn’t changed a bit. Still a hardcore feminist liberal. Seattle is possibly the most beta town in the United States, so maybe things are a bit topsy-turvy here.

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  24. on December 25, 2008 at 9:38 am Recovered beta

    In fact, many flagrant betas are simply posing and think it will get them laid more. Sadly, they are sometimes correct.

    I’ve been thinking about and observing this behavior a lot. It is very counter-intuitive, because it mostly seems not to work. Like you, I believe that it is a strategy to get pussy, but to me it seems it is not a deliberate and conscious strategy.

    From your example, I get the feeling that the teacher is using two vulnerabilities of the girls to get into their pants: ideology and automatic dominance position teacher has relative to students. I would not categorize that behavior as beta. Beta would probably have difficulty approaching even 16 year olds from dominant position, and would have problems confronting sexuality of these girls. I would not characterize this as a common example.

    To me it seems that more common problem with most betas is that they are asperger-ish, meaning that they take everything very literally. When woman says something, they think she is talking about the reality and not just expressing her emotions by moving her lips.

    Most women (starting from your mother) can and will use their emotions very manipulatively. If you take everything literally and are not otherwise very careful, you can easily be manipulated into worshipping women before you grow up as a man. I think saying you are a feminist is partly an expression of the belief system that men should sacrifice everything to worship women.

    I believe this behavioral pattern can be partly understood by seeing it as an expression of will power. It is common human tendency to want to exert your will power to force other people to be submissive. People do it to everybody else they can, whenever they can, just like all other herd animals. In apes, those in submissive position often try to appease those in higher position. For example, lower status chimpanzees groom higher status individuals.

    Chimpanzees also use grooming and bribery with meat to form political alliances. I think that inter-group behavior explains the other part why men declare themselves a feminist, or take feminist viewpoints on arguments.

    Betas seem to believe that feminism/non-feminism defines a real in-group and out-group boundary. They know (correctly) that that women only choose partners from their in-group. They also know (correctly) that most women believe men should worship them, in other words most women are feminists. From these three tenets they conclude that best strategy to get pussy is to be a feminist. This strategy does not seem to be conscious.

    The obvious problem with this strategy, as we all know, is that it is submissive behavior. And women tend to hate submissive behavior in their partner much more than they like nice behavior. Also, empirical evidence seems to verify that feminism/non-feminism is really not the in-group/out-group boundary that women use when choosing their partners.

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  25. Recovering Beta, to pick up on what you’re saying, women are very conformist and prefer men who appear to be in line with the prevailing and fashionable attitudes. So a guy who says that he is a Feminist is showing the girls that he is “with it” and in tune with what’s popular.

    This guy, if he’s an Alpha, does not need to actually believe in feminism. On some level he knows it’s nonsense. But he also knows that professing feminism’s tenets will make him look like he’s in the in-group. Alleged near-rapist Bill Clinton is a prime example of that.

    A Beta, on the other hand, will also spout feminist talking points but unlike the Alpha, he will also believe in them.

    The argument that women choose men who are in tune with fashionable attitudes may seem contradictory in light of the fact that women also like “bad boy” nonconformist rule-breakers. I think the way it in fact breaks down is that women never liked rebels. And by rebels I mean guys who take on the fashionable prevailing attitudes.

    As far as real rebels go, guys find them cool, women find them creepy.

    What women like is a guy who functions within the established order of things but is above it in some way, but not outside of it. A Bill Clinton, who played by the rules by putting feminists in the Pentagon, but also was “above the nonsense” in his personal life when he sexually assaulted regular women.

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  26. PA, yes good point. Women seem extremely conformist, even with regards to their preference to non-conformism. For example, where I live, everybody in the “alternative” crowd has the same kind of different clothing and accessories. Even respected rebels, such as James Dean in the 50s, have always been highly popular among women. It is not very non-conformist to prefer individuals preferred by everybody else.

    Another interesting counter-intuitive meme related to this is the popular counter-argument to the argument “men like sex more than women”. I have recently encountered several discussions where some woman tells an anecdote from her group of 30ish girlfriends, where everybody complains about the lack of sex in their relationship. This, according to the woman, proves that actually women like sex more than men.

    I really believe that these group-therapy sessions have really happened. I also think that anybody who has some experience with female sexuality understands that most of these women are lying. But this is a really good example how much women can bend the reality to conform to some perceived group norm.

    Here’s an interesting take on these male bashing sessions:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/21/resist-the-urge-to-trash-husbands/

    (btw, my I chose nick name Recovering beta, and this is first time I am writing on this site, are you confusing me with some other person? Perhaps I should choose different nick name?)

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  27. Recovered beta, my bad, I’m not confusing you with some other person, I just misread your nick.

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  28. Speaking of Seattle, Welmer…

    I would like to propose a Social Dynamics Law. That is: the fewer uber-betas that exist in an area, the better the women there treat ALL men, Alpha or Beta or whatever.

    Seattle has a freakishly high percentage of men who genuflect before women, especially those who “embrace their inner goddess”. Which translates into:
    – spending disposable income on aromatherapy candles and crappy artwork instead of cosmetics and clothes
    – treating well-dressed professional men like panhandlers
    – engaging in occasional gangbangs with bikers

    Another blogger described the place as one “where women have made dressing down, being crunchy, and embracing their inner gender-free human an art form.”

    Of all the places I’ve visited, none comes close to Seattle in the number of women who are chilly or outright condescending to men. For a second opinion — http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/soundoff/comment.asp?articleID=246818&page=2 (check out “TheKid”s comment at the bottom).

    And the middle-aged to elderly women are actually WORSE than the youngest ones.

    Cities like Houston, Austin, Kansas City, Chicago, even D.C. are a sensual paradise compared to this dank pit of despair. It’s a shame, because the city itself is attractive, safe, and has some great Asian food.

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  29. Huge,
    According to The Game, the idea is that you want to keep the Woman engaged and talking to you. Her doing so is in fact an IOI. This is why, until or unless you learn how to be a witty conversationalist on your own, “canned” material such as Routines are important, also being able to seamlessly shift from one Routine to another.

    Additionally, you want to *give her a reason* to give you her phone number. This is where DHV comes in. You must show why you’re special enough to warrant continuing the conversation later. The book has examples of DHV that need not be explained here.

    And finally, you want to make use of a FTC. You have to know when to cut things short-Woman love suspense. After a bit of time (first you annouce that you’re on the move & don’t have a lot of time-a busy man is an important man), you simply state that the conversation was fascinating and ask how what steps should you two take to continue it. That’s when she’ll offer you her number.

    Be sure to have a working pen and scratch paper in your pocket.

    Salaam
    Mu/The Obsidian

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  30. Totally off-topic and unrelated to your post, here is a Christmas Day thought-experiment for Roissy.

    Suppose you are a slightly short, dark-haired Austrian man with a smallish rectangular mustache living after the first World War. For various reasons, you conceive a virulent hatred for Jews. In fact, you feel you hate Jews so much that it would give you great pleasure to have all the Jews gassed. It seems to you that having the Jews gassed would give you more pleasure than all the gazillions of women that you (the actual Roissy living in DC) have had sex with combined. Do you:

    A: Form a political party, take over Germany and Austria, construct death camps, and begin implementing the Final Solution.

    B: Refrain from killing Jews.

    If (B), why? Is killing Jews wrong, in your opinion? Or merely less pleasant than not killing them? Is there something other than pleasure to consider in how you interact with others?

    I suppose what I’m curious about is whether you believe in any sort of morality, the concept of some things at some point being “right” or “wrong,” whether circumstantial and transitory depending on a given situation, or perennial and universal as a general rule by which to guide decisions. Are there acts you’d look at and say to yourself you wouldn’t do them, not just because they would be unpleasant, but because they would seem wrong?

    I can’t help being curious (if not amused) when someone professes pure unalloyed hedonism, particularly when he also clearly prides himself in rigorous intellectual honesty.

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  31. Groggie invokes Godwin’s law –

    “As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law

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  32. Groggie,

    Hitler hated a lot of people. Jews shouldn’t feel so special.

    For example, gypsies got gassed, too.

    The problem for the Jews was that the Nazi’s set up a bureaucracy to kill the Jews and steal their money, like the Spanish inquisition. It was quite profitable.The Jews had a lot to steal. Note the Madoff story. No matter how stupid the policy became, it didn’t matter. The German army sometimes argued against killing the Jews because some groups of Jews were very useful to the Army (logistical areas.) For example, the Warsaw ghetto was in the business of making German Army uniforms at a lower price than available elsewhere. However, the bureaucracy was going to keep doing its job to stay in existence. Heck with the Army and the war effort.

    You will experience a somewhat similar situation if they set up a bureaucracy to control carbon emissions.

    One reason people have never heard about why Hitler killed the Jews. There was simply not enough food in Europe to feed everybody. British blockade and all that. Really. Food was in short supply. Murdering people who were “useless” freed up food for everybody else, especially Germans. If your read accounts of that unhappy time, you will be impressed by how concerned Germans were in getting enough food to eat, even when they were “winning” .

    Such is war.

    Anyway, I think Mr. Seal is a find example of a beta male, but, he seems to have gotten a beautiful woman. So what.

    She seems to be a good example of a white woman hanging out with an idiot because he is a big idiot. She says she fell for his body. Of course, the counter argument is they are both idiots. But, I haven’t noticed any Jews or Asians acting like this “supermodel.” So, my point from a previous post is reinforced by this situation: Asian and Jewish women, but not so much white women, respect intellect.

    Such women are a real argument against judging a woman by how she looks. However, I guess they are both getting what they want, so if they are happy, be happy for them.

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  33. “I was chatting up a girl at a cosmetics counter when I as at the mall. How do you number close in these kinds of situations?”

    I mean, you only wave a minute to talk to her b/c she’s busy, how do you get the number in so short a time?

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  34. A Hitler analogy? seriously?

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  35. I must invoke the LOLRUS… http://www.slate.com/id/2166338/slideshow/2166369/fs/0//entry/2166374/ to counter the Hitler comment. =)

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  36. on December 25, 2008 at 6:43 pm Awesome Bill from Dawsonville

    Seal is gay. Next question?

    BUMP: open the girl and make a good impression quickly, use a false time constraint and get the # before you dip.

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  37. I know, I know, it’s terribly cliche. OK, for variety’s sake, let’s make it Stalin instead:

    You’re a Russian man with a mustache resembling a small rodent. You feel it would be like an earth-shattering, cataclysmic, year-long orgasm to be able to cause mass starvation and imprison zillions of people in Gulags. Continue on with rest of thought-experiment …

    Meanwhile another thought experiment for Roissy:

    You are a girl, and a very good-looking one. You are also very sensible, with a good head on your shoulders, and have all kinds of good qualities – kindness, generosity, honesty, modesty, non-sluttiness, you can cook, you’re reasonably good in bed (but not too good, as that would require more sluttiness than would be appropriate for a woman of your quality, but for someone with your limited experience, you’re something of a natural) & all that. Which guy would you rather spend time with (ceteris paribus)?

    A. A guy who brags openly in a very public forum about all the zillions of girls he has slept with, and writes posts about how Western institutions should be more patriarchal, and how women should be cool with their husband’s mistresses but themselves be models of fidelity.

    B. A guy who has only slept with like 6 people, and would never talk about having slept with them, and who feels that feminism, while certainly a mixed bag for everyone, is not necessarily the harbinger of doom for civilization as we know it, and who believes in mutual marital fidelity.

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  38. I would think roissy’s morality is: “Never initiate force or fraud” and “Mind your own business”, something much superior to the idiocy espoused by the Abrahamic religions.

    Anyone not a libertarian by now deserves poverty and starvation.

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  39. The one with the bigger tits.

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  40. “…you’re reasonably good in bed (but not too good, as that would require more sluttiness than would be appropriate for a woman of your quality, but for someone with your limited experience, you’re something of a natural”

    What the hell makes women think that them getting fucked by lots of guys gives them skill at getting fucked?

    Women’s “ability” in bed = 90% how she looks, 10% her enthusiasm. The second isn’t increased by getting slammed by miles of cock in a lifetime. The first isn’t either.

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  41. Women’s “ability” in bed = 90% how she looks, 10% her enthusiasm.

    Alright, I have to respectfully disagree here. It truly is possible to have a woman with genuine skills in bed outside of just her looks and enthusiasm.

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  42. betas, deltas, epsilons.

    what really matters is that this dog is the biggest alpha of 2008:

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  43. You are a girl, and a very good-looking one. You are also very sensible, … Which guy would you rather spend time with (ceteris paribus)?

    By “spend time with”, I’m assuming you mean “fuck”.

    The answer is A. He has the higher level of social proofing (assuming she knows about his sexual past). Why do you think he has sex with so many women? Because women don’t dig him? Obviously A has more game.

    Anyway, you’re assuming that she’ll know about his past, and she might not.

    Of course, if you literally mean “spend time with” in a platonic, non-sexual sense, then B might have some chance, I suppose.

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  44. Oh, and when I say that A has more game, I’m assuming that he’s telling the truth about all the women he’s boned. If he’s just some exaggerating beta or lying omega, then he’s at the bottom of the pile with B.

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  45. Groggie, the dirty little secret of feminism is that it makes women more prone to picking the Big Man than classic Western “strong women” who are independent and and so on.

    Feminism (which is really the Pill and Condom + better earnings/freedom for women) = soft polygamy, more rigid sex roles, and so on.

    Geez, that Seal story was vomitous. Yeesh.

    Raging Betas would include, Joss Whedon of Buffy the Vampire Slayer fame. Same kind of dynamic — pose as “feminist” ala Bill Clinton while being the same kind of Big Man. Hollywood is Ground Zero of beta-type attitudes just the way Seattle is. Both btw are hotbeds of gays.

    Gays are found in large numbers wherever there are lots of betas and women dominate. You don’t see too many Gays for example in occupations like Electrical engineering.

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  46. on December 26, 2008 at 2:29 am ROISSY = FRAUD

    I nominate Roissy as BETA OF THE YEAR because he clearly spends more time writing geeky blog posts and commenting on geeky blogs all over the web than he does picking up chicks.

    Why has Roissy not posted a picture of himself here yet? is it because of his geeky betaness?

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  47. Groggie is not only a fat unwanted female, she is a Jew (meaning she is also ugly – Jews are a very ugly ethnic group) – god what a terrible situation she was born in to.

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  48. Lol —

    Would you consider Alona Tal, Laura Prepon, Michelle Trachtenberg, Amanda Bynes, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Selma Blair, Claudia Black, Amber Benson, Elizabeth Berkeley, Neve Campbell, Jennifer Connelly, Chelsea Handler, Scarlett Johansson, Alyson Hannigan, Kate Hudson, Amanda Peet, Alicia Silverstone, Nikki Reed, Natalie Portman, Ashley Tisdale, Mila Kunis, and Sarah Michelle Gellar attractive?

    Guess what, they are all Jewish.

    If anything, the list of Jewish actors at Wikipedia would tend to show EXTREMELY attractive women, and either “funny” guys like Chris Kattan or Fred Savage or Zachary Levi (“Chuck”), and brooding leading men like Wentworth Miller or Michael Rosenbaum or Robert Downey Jr.

    Nevertheless, the list is long, and instructive. The people there listed are at the top of the attractiveness spectrum. Gina Gershon, for goodness sakes, is Jewish. Bill Goldberg is … well Goldberg. Capable of picking up the Big Show over his head. And Cindy Margolis was the most downloaded woman on the internet in 1999.

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  49. Being how divorce-theft comes up here a lot… I’m sure y’all have read the news about that guy in Santa suit, Bruce Jeffrey Pardo, who killed eight people and himself on Christmas Eve. It looks like he crashed a party at his former in-laws, killed eight people includng his ex-wife,and torched the house.

    The news are talking about it having been “an acrimonious divorce.” “It was not an amicable divorce,” police Lt. Pat Buchanan said.

    The guys seems like a classic beta: apparently professionally employed, and a nice guy. “He was the nicest guy you could imagine. Always a pleasure to talk to, always a big smile,” says a woman who knew him.

    An eight-year-old girl opened the door when he rang and he shot her in the face.

    I don’t know much else about this. I don’t know for a fact that his wife eviscerated him in that divorce… but it’s not an unlikely scenario.

    It’s a horrible thing he did, but it confirms a lot of the things that people like Whiskey warn about.

    Note to self: don’t attend parties where a recently-divorced woman is hanging out.

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  50. http://www.newsday.com/iphone/la-me-santa-shooting26-2008dec26,0,6690481.story

    He shot a 16 year old girl in the back who, I presume, had nothing to do with his divorce.

    Men (when was the last time you heard of a woman doing this?) snap and go on shooting sprees for all kinds of reasons: Foreclosure on their homes, losing their jobs etc.
    Remember the post office shootings?

    Should banks leave people on their homes whether or not they pay their mortgages, and should employers never lay off or fire people who are burdens to the companies in order to prevent mass shootings?

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  51. Just to cosign what Whiskey said…

    One of the *hottest* Women Mu has ever laid eyes has got to be Nigella Lawson. She looks mighty fine to me, PLUS she can cook. She can get it all day, every day, in every way, from Mu.

    Yes, Lawd.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  52. Men (when was the last time you heard of a woman doing this?) snap and go on shooting sprees for all kinds of reasons: Foreclosure on their homes, losing their jobs etc.

    Thinking of this milleniums’ shooting sprees in Finland, it’s only 2-1 for men and the only one where the shooter didn’t know the victims was the one with a female shooter (IIRC she killed “only” 3 or 4, though).

    Remember the post office shootings?

    Let’s try. First link when googling “woman postal shooting”:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-01-31-postal-shooting_x.htm

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  53. Hello,

    I know the demographics on mass shooting well; it relates to my old line of work. You don’t want to play this game. Most involve either genuine mental illness (a la the Virginia Tech case), or extreme financial or marital strain (often both).

    To the Jew thing,

    What, is everyone three years old? Mentally deficient neo-nazi smacktards? Jews are neither any more attractive nor any less attractive than any other group of women in terms of inherent nature, I suspect; cultural conditioning turns many Jewish women into fucking banshees, but that’s a learned mental disability, not an inherited one.

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  54. If Roissy’s code is “never initiate force or fraud” and “mind your own business,” okay, that’s not too bad as far as it goes. Much better than “allow the vagaries of penile sensation to dictate your moral decision-making.”

    You know, this whole pickup artist thing, I don’t think it’s so bad if it’s something like charm-school for men. The trouble lies in that its a kind of erotic sophistry, the effort to seem good or worthwhile, divorced from the concept of actually being good or worthwhile. Of course we all know that in this world (more than anywhere in the world perhaps, in this town of DC), it’s not enough merely to be good and have something of substance to offer – one also does need to seem good.

    But to seem good without have something of substance to back it up is, to my way of thinking, rather fraudulent, to say the least.

    Cheers!

    Like


  55. And, I still wonder where Roissy would come down on the issue of treating human beings as means to an end vs. treating them as ends in themselves. I’m sure he has something clever to say on that topic and I wait with bated breath for some enlightening bon mot.

    Like


  56. “What, is everyone three years old? Mentally deficient neo-nazi smacktards? Jews are neither any more attractive nor any less attractive than any other group of women in terms of inherent nature, I suspect; cultural conditioning turns many Jewish women into fucking banshees, but that’s a learned mental disability, not an inherited one.”

    Sorry dude, personality and physical differences between ethnic groups are real.

    Go peddle blank slate bullshit somewhere else.

    Like


  57. “Let’s try. First link when googling “woman postal shooting”:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-01-31-postal-shooting_x.htm

    The academic they spoke to said that it was “highly unusual” for a woman to do this.

    Jackson,
    Even if it woman shooters aren’t unknown aren’t such shootings overwhelmingly male dominated?

    According to the DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics:

    In recent years –

    About one third of female murder victims were killed by an intimate.

    About 3% of male murder victims were killed by an intimate.

    Of all female murder victims, the proportion killed by an intimate has been increasing.

    Of male murder victims, the proportion killed by an intimate has dropped.

    Now this does indeed prove Whiskey’s point but if I were married to a man who is capable of this I think it would be worth risking this to get away from him.

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  58. hello, now you’re quoting statistics on murder, not shooting sprees. You asked whether women ever snap and go on shooting sprees and talked about shooting completely unknown people, implying that you meant shootings with no obvious motive – not revenge, politics, money, whatever. I don’t see the evidence that women would be less likely to “just snap” and start shooting.

    In fact, I still don’t know of a case where a man would’ve just snapped and gone on a motive-less shooting spree while I do know of a woman who did that. (I don’t follow the news from foreign countries that closely, but the school shootings etc I’ve seen in other countries seem to be like ours, sort of revenge killings by bullying victims and dateless nerds – a lot like what whiskey keeps talking about, actually.)

    Like


  59. I recommend this book on the subject school shooting sprees:

    http://www.socresonline.org.uk/10/3/reviews/davies.html

    Harvard sociology professor Newman did a very thorough study of all the school shootings. Basically she ends up making the same case as jaakkeli and whiskey, but with a twist.

    The shooters are definitely bullied. But there is a difference between school shooters and all the other kids who are bullied in school but do not go on rampage. Newman makes the case that although the killers also had low status, they still thought they deserved high status.

    Newman stops the analysis at this, but it begs the question, who taught them to deserve the high status? And only then it becomes clear: our society teaches that people who behave well and study hard will do well, and end up with high status.

    And when these killers do well in school they still get bullied in school. And they see that the jocks get all the girls, and teachers encourage bullying and the status differences.

    For example, Columbine school had no-car policy, expect for the football quarterback, who had a reserved parking spot on school yeard. He parked his SUV there, who was bought by his parents.

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  60. “hello, now you’re quoting statistics on murder, not shooting sprees.”

    This is both a mass shooting and an intimate partner murder.

    “In fact, I still don’t know of a case where a man would’ve just snapped and gone on a motive-less shooting spree while I do know of a woman who did that.”

    Sometimes women with severe psychiatric problems to murder without rhyme or reason as do mentally ill men. The real question is among relatively normal people (i.e. people not communicating telepathically with aliens) do men do this more than women?

    “I’ve seen in other countries seem to be like ours, sort of revenge killings by bullying victims and dateless nerds – a lot like what whiskey keeps talking about, actuall”

    That’s the point. Dateless women typically just watch chick flicks and scarf down gallons of ice cream. Women rarely respond to romantic frustration with murder.

    I think the divorce rate in this country should be lower and that couple should try and tough it out through rough patches. But we don’t know anything about this marriage except that the husband was a frequent church-goer. So was Dennis Rader, the BTK killer.

    I’m not suggesting this guy was a serial killer but you never know what goes on in someone else’s marriage. She could have pulled monthly Lois Feldmans just as easily as he could have been beating her bloody but they’re both dead so unless an investigative reporter decides to research their marriage we’ll never know. However, unless he was on drugs I really doubt that he just put on a Santa suit and shot an 8 year old in the face with no history whatsoever of violent behavior or psychological problems. Do you all really think that his wife should have stayed with an obviously unstable man on the shaky premise that her presence would keep him from being violent?

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  61. My point was not about the gender of shooters, it was about the motivation of the shooters.

    There is no such thing as a motive-less shooting spree, after all (as opposed to, say, individual accidental shootings); there may be shootings where we don’t know the motive, but that doesn’t mean one never existed.

    To Steve:

    Try tangling with my actual argument and not a strawman, and perhaps we can have some kind of discussion. I stated, specifically, that I doubted Jewish women were any more or less physically attractive from a purely biological perspective than any other group, and that it was learned cultural behaviors (such as being a vicious harpy or getting fat based on an ethnically specific set of food, though even that is a bit tenuous as it’s more of an American issue tied to the obesity epidemic that Roissy speaks about) that caused them to be unattractive.

    There’s no blank slate statement in there other than to say that Jewish women are neither unusually ugly nor attractive. All of these arguments are a nuanced combination of things like cultural learning, evolutionary biology, and behavioral psychology; there is never a simple and clear answer in any direction or someone would have figured all this shit out already and Roissy wouldn’t need this blog.

    Cliff Notes Version: Don’t fucking misrepresent me.

    Like


  62. My understanding of Whiskey’s analysis is that historically high populations of single men have been easily recruited into military action, like al-Qada and various militant movements in China. He doesn’t demonstrate that maritally frustrated but otherwise normal men have historically become violent against their own societies save the odd bar brawl.

    Like


  63. Marital, or mating, frustration is not an isolated incident, Hello. It’s inexorably intertwined with the goings on of a society, because there has to be a reason that people are maritally / mating frustrated!

    For men, this usually ties in with things like low status, lack of social power, lack of education, lack of potential upward mobility, lack of money, etc. Along with the trio of tall, dark, and mysterious, these are the things women look for in men.

    Not having those things available to large populations of men causes marital / mating frustration. They also cause revolutions. You are focused on this like it is the disease when, in fact, it’s a symptom of the disease.

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  64. “Do you all really think that his wife should have stayed with an obviously unstable man on the shaky premise that her presence would keep him from being violent?”

    The better question is why did she marry a guy who would shoot an 8 year old in the face? Gee, think women have a taste for violent, unpredictable men?

    Jackson

    “I stated, specifically, that I doubted Jewish women were any more or less physically attractive from a purely biological perspective than any other group, and that it was learned cultural behaviors (such as being a vicious harpy or getting fat based on an ethnically specific set of food, though even that is a bit tenuous as it’s more of an American issue tied to the obesity epidemic that Roissy speaks about) that caused them to be unattractive.”

    Nonsense.

    1) Personality traits are a large portion genetic in origin, including those that are present in Jewish women.
    2) Physical traits are genetically controlled to such an obvious and huge degree that even blank-slaters have to admit this. Claiming that Jewish women don’t have specific physical traits is like claiming that black people don’t have darker skin than white people.

    Now, saying that Jewish women are unattractive is a matter of taste but claiming that there aren’t traits that Jewish women have as a result of their genetic heritage is absurd.

    Here’s a test to see if the women of a group are attractive. What percentage of successful men of that group marry women in the same group?

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  65. The better question is why did she marry a guy who would shoot an 8 year old in the face?

    Or, did she try to destroy him in the divorce?

    (I have no idea. Could be that she tried to leave amicably and he went psycho. But chances also are that she overreached and humiliated him, Judith-on-Alan-Harper-style, as in “I get the whole house plus both cars, plus the dog, plus he pays my an my boyfriend’s gym membership for life. Oh, and he once grabbed my arm.”)

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  66. “Marital, or mating, frustration is not an isolated incident, Hello. It’s inexorably intertwined with the goings on of a society, because there has to be a reason that people are maritally / mating frustrated!”

    Of course

    “For men, this usually ties in with things like low status, lack of social power, lack of education, lack of potential upward mobility, lack of money, etc. Along with the trio of tall, dark, and mysterious, these are the things women look for in men.”

    This is a big problem in China where women, due to their scarcity, are very picky about selecting educated men but in the countryside most men are illiterate. In the US, however, not pursuing education is usually a choice.

    “Not having those things available to large populations of men causes marital / mating frustration. They also cause revolutions. You are focused on this like it is the disease when, in fact, it’s a symptom of the disease.”

    Marital and mating frustrations aren’t the same thing. Casual sex is more difficult to come by for nerdy and/or unattractive men but even if they don’t fare well on the meat market most such men can find wives or long-term girlfriends by lowering their standards for beauty. Whether or not they do that is a different matter altogether.

    Like


  67. Happy New Year everyone. Miss me!

    Like


  68. On a lighter note… Can I get Ur Number? Can I have it? Can I?
    Damn girl… your skin is fresh.. you must use that Noxema shit huh? LOL…


    and

    Like


  69. Whiskey, while I’m sure there are many beautiful people who are Jewish, the list of people you mention are hardly of completely Jewish ancestry. Particularly someone like Scarlett Johansson whose father is Danish. Those people whose ancestors are all Levantine, look unmistakeably Mediterranean. There are not as many tall, slender, light-skinned people among them as there are in Northern Europe. If you’re into people who look like Heidi Klum, then you will not find as many attractive people among the peoples inhabiting the shores of the Mediterranean as among Northern Europeans. But of course, you may prefer another type altogether.

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  70. @Welmer, Mason: My god, you’re making me want to get out of the human wasteland that is Seattle even more. There are few other places where women are lacking in the soul and passion that makes being human worthwhile. And wouldn’t you know, the economy tanks just when I start sending out resumes. I went to a bar a few weeks ago where the lead singer of the band took time to “entertain” us with a poem he wrote called (no lie), “The Goddesses Among Us”. The bar was a little too noisy for me to hear all the words, but the last line was something to the effect of, “…and the Goddess walks by us on the street, and we are left trying to understand.” I had to fight the urge to throw my beer glass at him. After he finished reciting his drivel, it shouldn’t surprise anyone to know that many of the (clearly beta) men clapped more enthusiastically than the women did.

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  71. [i]Pardo, 45, had no criminal record and no history of violence, according to police, but he was angry following last week’s settlement of his divorce after a short marriage.

    A court summary of the divorce case shows that Sylvia Pardo filed for a dissolution of marriage on March 24, 2008. The summary indicates she and Bruce Pardo reached a settlement on Dec. 18 and were separated after about two years of marriage.

    Court documents show Sylvia Pardo got the couple’s dog, the wedding ring and $10,000 in the settlement agreement, while he got the house. In June, the court ordered Bruce Pardo to pay $1,785 a month in spousal support and put him on a payment plan of $450 a month for $3,570 that was unpaid.

    Pardo’s attorney said the man had trouble making the payments after he lost his job in July, but spousal support was waived in the settlement signed earlier this month.[/i]

    I think it was probably both the loss of the job and the marriage rather than him getting screwed over in the settlement.

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  72. I’m not sure the violence model is predictive on an individual, i.e. a guy gets divorced or can’t get a date and THAT PARTICULAR guy gets violent.

    More to the point of if men can’t compete on being a “good husband” through earnings, stability, etc. which are in control mostly in an opportunity society they will compete on average, socially, by being the hardest hard boy. As T AKA Ricky Raw has pointed out, particulary in his post “the Myth of the Alpha Ghetto Male” the pattern of female selection (Google “Lauren London Thugs”) tends to encourage competition by men to position themselves as the most dangerous, high-testosterone thugs. Black America was not always violent and dangerous. Within living memory it was a place where children could play in the street unmolested and violence was relatively rare. What changed was female selection through the Pill, Condom, and better earnings/freedom. Away from stability, good earnings, and towards uber-macho stuff.

    Hello — Exactly, that was my point (single men can be used for violence against neighbors). That’s the whole point of Jihad. Single guys without women seeking slaves in this life or virgins in the next. Understandable when you look at Mohammed Bin Laden’s life: 22 wives, he’d get tired of them and pawn them off after having a child with them to a subordinate. Happened to Osama at age 9, and his step-father both hated and feared Osama. Treated Osama’s mother as a cast-off sex slave from another master. Not exactly the model of Western Romantic Love that creates a stable and orderly society without lots of personal violence. It’s important to note that Osama was no aberration — in 1979 armed gunmen took over the Mosque in Mecca of all places and turned the place into an abbatoir. Muslim societies are inherently violent because violence remains the one reliable tool for men without wealth and power to compete for women. And in polygamous societies that’s always a problem.

    But the larger issue is that men tend to “cheat” in competition for women by violence, not the least of which is that women reward it and it does indeed “win” more often than not. A man can’t suddenly change to a rock star but any guy can be a Scott or Drew Peterson, or a Johann Van Der Sloot, before their murders. The most dangerous guys in the room. Dalrymple noted how even his nurses chose dangerous and violent abusers over nice, decent men who they found “boring.”

    Men ARE dangerous, female preference for nice, decent, stable guys reduces the violence against women, but at a cost of “boring” sex partners. Dangerous bad boys give lots of thrills, but social encouragement of that model equals lots more violence against women and children for obvious reasons. I’m not arguing for a “return to Patriarchy” which is both impossible and non-productive, but rather having most men in a society having a wife of roughly equal attractiveness and a relationship based on Romantic Love, of free choice by both (demonstrating committment) With female choice based on stability and fidelity and decency, not danger and excitement.

    That is of course a pipe dream. I think women will simply have to put up with lots of violence in society as men seek to “cheat” and up the ante in competition for women by engaging in violence generally which in practice means women and kids get it in the neck (as usual).

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  73. Markuu — Louis Armstrong said there were two kinds of music, good and bad. There are likely two kinds of women, hot and not.

    Most men would find dark-skinned beauties like Salma Hayek or Charisma Carpenter as beautiful as Johannsen or pale-skinned beauties such as Michelle Trachtenberg or tanned but light colored eyes beauties such as Amanda Bynes or Sarah Michelle Gellar. Sanaa Lathan is probably as attractive for most men as Kate Hudson.

    Historically, however, Jewish women have been renowned for their beauty from the Bible onward (to descriptions by Western European writers and American ones, nearly all Gentiles). While it’s true a subset of Jewish women in NYC’s literati and fashionista scene as shown in the movie “Crossing Delancey” (discussed on Half Sigma’s site) play promiscuous mating games based on power-status, it’s interesting to approach the women listed above as a group.

    While there are outliers, most of the women in the group are considered “nice,” stay out of the tabloids, don’t act promiscuously, have monogamous long term relationships with “nice” husbands or boyfriends, They tend to be highly verbal (no surprise there), with a good command of language, understanding of believable human behavior, and higher future time orientation. There are few Lindsay Lohans among them and far more Sarah Michelle Gellars (noted consummate professional). They are also extremely hot.

    Of course, their behavior and choices may be indicative of the social setting (Hollywood) where it’s clear to anyone who observes closely that Hollywood’s bad boys are a total disaster and nice, decent guys of equal social status are in short supply given Hollywood’s over-supply of Gays related to total population. Those are probably strong constraints. If so, it’s telling.

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  74. *****
    He shot a 16 year old girl in the back who, I presume, had nothing to do with his divorce.

    Men (when was the last time you heard of a woman doing this?) snap and go on shooting sprees for all kinds of reasons: Foreclosure on their homes, losing their jobs etc.
    ******

    “That is my ambition, to have killed more people-more helpless people-than any man or woman who has ever lived.”
    –Jane Toppan

    Also, it’s really is kinda hard to find out what set him off. You see, there is a lot of lying going on.

    http://www.ksat.com/nationalnews/18360209/detail.html#-
    ****
    She got $10,000, their dog and her wedding ring in the settlement. He kept the house.

    Bruce Pardo’s attorney, Stanley Silver, said his client was still trying to pay the $10,000 as recently as Tuesday.

    He says his client also fell behind on spousal support payments after he lost his job in July.
    ****
    Now, of course, “spousal support” is, you know, MONEY. So the “settlement” stated above is odd… because it doesn’t mention the spousal support. Of course, do to poor lying, it is then mentioned two sentences latter. However, the deliberate lying is fairly obvious.

    And this is Associated Press.

    My guess is they were going to put him in jail for being in violation of a ‘court order’. Debtors prisons are like, way cool. Right Hello?

    Like


  75. ASDF December 24, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    “Roissy, you have ruined my Omega brand watch for me!”

    In Australia GM has a model of their best selling large car, the Commodore, badged as the ‘Omega’.

    Like


  76. whiskey – you are probably only defending the ugliness of jews because you are one.

    jews are clearly the ugliest ethnic group on planet earth – most of the women you name are only partially jewish in an ethnic sense, many of them barely jewish at all. but of course a few attractive jews exist here and there – but OVERALL an attractive jew is a VERY rare thing.

    also, the people you mention are not natural beauties…they have the advantage of hollywood trickery when it comes to their looks – all kinds of beauty treatments with their money, loads of plastic surgery, massive amounts of makeup, hollywood trick lighting and camera angles, sympathetic (jewish) paparazzi who only use the best photos in magazines, and so on.

    yes, it is clear that jews are the ugliest ethnic group that ever existed on planet earth.

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  77. on December 27, 2008 at 1:22 am Days of Broken Arrows

    Damn! Deery beat me to it, but I was going to nominate the Santa Suit Killer, Bruce Pardo for Beta of the Year.

    He was married a scant two years and was forced to pay $1,785 a month in spousal support.

    How is this fair? And isn’t prostitution more cost-efficient? I mean, seriously: Two years and almost two thousand a month for life?????

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  78. Solar (definitely not Man of the Atom) — it would shock my Irish Catholic Mother and Scots-German Protestant father that I was Jewish.

    Though I am in fact very grateful to the Jews who founded Comic book characters and movies, as I am to Blacks who created Jazz, Blues, and the foundations of Rock and Roll, as I am to the Italians who created some of the world’s greatest Opera, and of course Pizza.

    Go look through the list. Many of the women there have no plastic surgery whatsoever, which is why they look distinctive. Gellar and Trachtenberg with distinctive noses, Bynes with her large cheeks, Gershon with her mole. Nearly all celebrate Hanukah (though also Christmas, which is quite common among Western Jews).

    Natural selection would in fact imply that Jews, facing persecution constantly for most of their existence, would have something going for them that makes them remain Jewish instead of simply converting to Islam or Christianity. One of those things is high levels of physical attractiveness coupled with reasonably high levels of intelligence, which in fact makes Jewish women (and men) desirable as mates by Gentiles.

    The high levels of intermarriage speak to the desirability of Jews by both sexes, as a matter of sore points among Jews in America. Dumas Pere et Fils both wrote of the power and sensuality of Jewish women, as did Twain, as did Arthur Conan Doyle, as did noted Irish dramatist Sean O’Casey.

    If Parisian Frenchmen, Missouri Southerners, Scotsmen, and sons of the Sod like O’Casey saw it, and agreed upon it, it must be true.

    Given that the women listed don’t show up in magazines (that’s Scots-Irish girls like Lohan, or Spears, or Simpson, or Greek origin women like Aniston, or Italian-Norwegian gals like Jolie) your point is irrelevantly stupid. Moreover all those women who do show up are shot by the paps to be as ugly as possible, since the female audience they cater to loves to laugh at “fugly” female celebs.

    Moreover, Tel Aviv is noted for it’s hot bods. Israeli women routinely end up ranking high in the Eurovision contests, despite hatred of Israel/Jews, because the women are hot. Gals like Alona Tal are standard fare for Israel’s contribution.

    Some of the most beautiful girls are English schoolgirls age 15-18, and some of the ugliest women are the same girls a few years later, as they’ve packed on the pounds and acquired coarse, drunken ways in their early twenties or so. Arab women are known to be remarkably ugly, though that was also not always so. In the ancient world pre-dating Islam, Arab women were considered among the hottest and most desirable, from the Greeks to the Romans to the Jews to almost every observers. Arab Christian Lebanese women participating in the Cedar Revolution were observably hot.

    However, lack of exercise, restriction to a tent, focus on household duties alone, produce babushkas or the equivalent. The way Russian women were depicted during Reagan’s term (and might well have been accurate). Culture matters a LOT in the aesthetic component of women, and the radical harems of the Middle East tends to produce ugly women, while Westernization (and sexual competition) produces very beautiful women. As Jews are the most modern of any population as a whole (excluding the ultra-Orthodox) they unsurprisingly have had very beautiful women, and either “smart/slim” men like Siegel and Shuster (created some character called Superman) or brooding guys like Wentworth Miller.

    If one were to look at an ugly family, that would be the Hapsburgs. The Emperor Maximillian, retarded and epileptic, bawled during a State dinner, “I am the Emperor and I want noodles!” The British Royal family before Diana was little better.

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  79. DOBA:

    I mean, seriously: Two years and almost two thousand a month for life?????

    in california, unless the marriage is deemed “lengthy” by the court (usually 10 years or longer), the standard is for spousal support to last 1/2 the length of the marriage. so that’s for one year, not life.
    still, that’s over $20,000 in payments.
    anybody wondering why they neglected to mention that figure, which is more than twice the lump-sum payment from the settlement?
    things that make you go hmm….

    Like


  80. i’m johnny five, and this is your 5:00 a.m. geek update.

    today we’re going to look at steve johnson’s standard of women’s beauty, as stated thus:
    What percentage of successful men of that group marry women in the same group?

    steve, go take a course in basic probability and statistics, and then get back to me, please.
    two things are very wrong here:
    (1) you’re ignoring the effects of cultural norms and sociallfamily pressure, which differ widely from ethnic group to ethnic group (confounding variable).
    (2) you can’t use this standard without correcting for (a) the relative size of each group, as well as (b) the extent to which “successful” people from that group encounter women of other ethnicities (non-normalized metric).
    examples:
    (1) if you need examples of this, i don’t even know if you can be helped.
    (2a) if white men mated randomly, they’d still be very likely to land white women, because white women constitute a large % of the population. if, say, hmong men mated randomly, they’d almost never bag hmong women, because hmong women are such a small % of the population. (does DC even have hmong people?)
    (2b) “successful” men tend to encounter a disproportionate number of women of higher social class. if these “successful” people are white or asian, they are thus more likely to run into women of their own kind than are their counterparts of other ethnic minorities. this effect will artificially inflate your attractiveness score for white and asian women, and will artificially deflate all the other scores.

    i’m johnny five, and this has been your 5:00 a.m. geek hour.

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  81. Most men would find dark-skinned beauties like Salma Hayek or Charisma Carpenter as beautiful as Johannsen or pale-skinned beauties such as Michelle Trachtenberg or tanned but light colored eyes beauties such as Amanda Bynes or Sarah Michelle Gellar. Sanaa Lathan is probably as attractive for most men as Kate Hudson.

    in my experience, this isn’t true at all. most men i know have distinct tastes among the different races of females.
    in fact, of all the guys i know well, only one places hot women of all races on the same indifference curve – and that’s my 12-year-old cousin.

    i believe i stand with mu’min, at least, on this one: i think all the women you’ve mentioned above are pretty, but they’re not striking enough to make the grade of “hot” in my opinion.
    i prefer the type of woman who can accelerate puberty in preteen boys with her mere presence – the type who can be summed up, in one word, as “va-voom!” this means either (a) irresistibly voluptuous**, (b) having a distinctly bad-girl look, or (c) both. i’d take kim kardashian, coco austin, gemma atkinson, denise milani, sophie howard, heather carolin, or … any of my last four girlfriends, over any and all of the women mentioned in the blockquote above.
    i like raw sexuality in my women. i like them to still be Women, with a capital “W” – a preference that rules out most of david alexander’s favorite brazzers starlets – but the beauty of gellar, trachtenberg, et al. is just too … subtle for me. i like in your face.
    if i had a woman with the gellar/trachtenberg look, and she got dolled up all slutty for bed the way i like, i’m afraid it would just come across as try-hard, rather than sexy. on the other hand, with the girls i go for (and who, fortune of fortunes, go for me right back), i can gaze lovingly upon them and whisper sweet little nothings such as, “damn girl, you were made for one thing“.

    enough of that little digression, though. i think this whole argument about which race’s women are hotter is just stupid. every race has a few stunningly hot women, a lot of average women, and a lot of ugly women. true story. once you get past that, it starts to remind me a lot of arguing about the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

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  82. forgot the footnote:

    **as is the actual meaning of “voluptuous”, before the term was hijacked by fat chicks.

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  83. I’d have to agree w/Whiskey’s assessment insofar as Jewish gals are concerned. Of course all of em ain’t the bomb, but quite a few of em are.

    Sanaa Latham, definitely can get it.

    Salma Hayek, not bad.

    I’m having trouble though w/this “darkskinned” title; to me, Hayek IS NOT a “darkskinned beauty”; Serena Williams is. And so was (and to a large extent, still it) Anita Baker in her prime. And Leila Rochon.

    And, one of my all-time faves: Pam Grier. Whew!

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  84. on December 27, 2008 at 9:44 am ironrailsironweights

    However, lack of exercise, restriction to a tent, focus on household duties alone, produce babushkas or the equivalent. The way Russian women were depicted during Reagan’s term (and might well have been accurate).

    One theory says that World War II was responsible for the present beauty of Russian women. Millions of Russian men died in the war, a high percentage of whom were young and unmarried, and as a result in the postwar years only the better-looking women had a reasonable chance of marriage. Today their daughters and granddaughters carry on their inherited beauty.

    Peter

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  85. whiskey, caution, you have been trolled

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  86. Now Johnny, we’re gonna have a weebit of a problem w/the terms, “Voluptuous” & “Fat Chicks” because they have different meanings to me than apparently, to you, and evidently, to a whole lot of other men here.

    Personally, I can’t do much w/a Keira Knightly type. She too small, I’d probably break her in half.

    Having said that though, Jennifer Holliday before she lost all the weight is definitely too much.

    So for me there has to be a middle ground. Personally I like the gals a bit on the heftier side, provided they don’t have guts and so on. Although a belly dancer’s belly is cute.

    I’ve said before that I think both Queen Latifah and Jennifer Hudson are quite attractive to me, and would hop on either before Beyonce’, whom for some reason, seems “fake” to me. I feel the same way about Rhianna, less so to an extent wrt Keisha Cole, but still she don’t do much for a bruh.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  87. Damn, Whiskey, I’m impressed. You beat me to the punch about noticing the physical effects of a “cloistering” culture. Very well put.

    When I am in the Anglo-Saxon world, esp. the U.S., I would say that there are percentage-wise perhaps twice as many noticeably attractive women as noticeably attractive men.

    In my limited travels in the Islamic world, I found a much higher percentage of good-looking men (unless one has an extreme aversion to body hair). The women were approximately the same on average as women in the U.S., and that’s after discounting their drab clothing styles.

    I wondered about that after returning and chalked it up to social differences. Except for Westernized sections of international cities like Istanbul, women spend a lot more time indoors than men, and adolescent girls tend to wear long sleeves even on fairly hot days. Tank tops and shorts, much less hot pants, are basically nonexistent there.

    Contrast this with South Florida, where there are TONS of gorgeous women. The teens down there probably set the world standard for “least amount of fabric worn over a 365-day period”.

    Spending much of your youth running around half-naked may not be sufficient for great beauty, but it sure seems to help.

    Probably more the “running free” aspect than the lack of clothing. Word on the grapevine is that the women in Edinburgh (Scotland) are gorgeous and that’s not exactly bikini country.

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  88. One theory says that World War II was responsible for the present beauty of Russian women.

    Supposedly this same effect would have been produced in France and England after WW1 and in Iran/Iraq after their 1980s war. Is there an “uptick” in female beauty in those countries?

    Also, are Russian women as a whole all exceptionally beautiful? Dunno myself, I’ve never been to Russia. However, I’ve been to most east-central Euro countries and you don’t really see much of a parade of beauties there. You’ll see a few 9s and 10s, but at about the same rate as you’d see at any American college campus — not that many.

    What you do see a lot of in EC Europe is tons of really cute 6s & 7s. Who are in fact ordinary girls who (a) aren’t fat; (b) carry themselves with a feminine “push-pull” air of coyness and flirtation; and (c) dress very stylishly – not necessarily expensively (nice clothes are much more expensive in ECE than in the US) but in a very flattering way.

    Those same natural 6s and 7s in the US have let themselves get fat and coarse of manner.

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  89. PA,
    Thought experiment for ya: which is *worse* to you: “coarseness in manner”, or, the ladies “letting themselves get fat”? Just curious.

    Holla back

    Salaam
    Mu

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  90. Seriously, not sure. Both make a girl unattractive to me. Which is worse, when a car is dented up or moldy inside?

    Incidentally, my o m e g a male friend recently visited a Central American country for “fun” and came back on cloud nine.

    A few days later, he and I walked through a mall, behind a small grop of fat and coarse-mannered young girls. My friend said:

    “This is exactly what I’m talking about. Look at those vulgarians! A Latin American whore has more class that a middle class American girl.”

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  91. on December 27, 2008 at 10:42 am ironrailsironweights

    One theory says that World War II was responsible for the present beauty of Russian women.

    Supposedly this same effect would have been produced in France and England after WW1 and in Iran/Iraq after their 1980s war. Is there an “uptick” in female beauty in those countries?

    Not that I ever heard of, which is why the theory sounds a bit dubious to me. Another point which casts doubt on its validity is the fact that Russia suffered huge numbers of civilian deaths during WWII. That would have caused a reduction in the pool of single women, as well as single men. If anything, the effect should have been more pronounced in France and Britain after WWI, as their deaths were almost entirely of men in combat.

    Also, are Russian women as a whole all exceptionally beautiful?

    My guess is that people in America think Russian women are beautiful, probably because Russia is the main source of mail order brides.

    Peter

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  92. j5:

    Of course you take into account the numbers. If successful black men disproportionately marry black women (who, on average, are more successful than black men) that says something clear about how attractive black men think black women are.

    Black people are a large minority and Jewish people are a small minority (but since Jewish people are concentrated, there is large community of co-ethnics everywhere Jewish people live).

    There is always social pressure to marry within your ethnic group and stronger social pressure to marry within your race. As men get successful, they both have more choices in partners as well as increased isolation from pressure. The choices these guys make are a better sign of tastes than the choices of average guys who are far more constrained.

    Getting back to the original point, in the Jewish community, the pressure to marry another Jew is huge. If successful Jewish men tend not to, well…

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  93. Now Johnny, we’re gonna have a weebit of a problem w/the terms, “Voluptuous” & “Fat Chicks” because they have different meanings to me than apparently, to you, and evidently, to a whole lot of other men here.

    my tastes have, it seems, much more in common with yours than with those of the run of posters heree

    Personally, I can’t do much w/a Keira Knightly type. She too small, I’d probably break her in half.

    with ya.
    keira knightley’s physique could actually deflate an erection for me.
    she looks like a sophomore at auschwitz.

    So for me there has to be a middle ground. Personally I like the gals a bit on the heftier side, provided they don’t have guts and so on.

    oh, me too, but i don’t often encounter “hefty” girls without guts.
    recall my paean to the lovely size 12 volleyball player on whom nothing so much as jiggled. hot damn.

    what’s even hotter, as i’ve remarked previously, is pregnant with my baby. sweet lawd, there’s no way my babies are gonna be born more than 9.5 months apart.

    I’ve said before that I think both Queen Latifah and Jennifer Hudson are quite attractive to me, and would hop on either before Beyonce’, whom for some reason, seems “fake” to me. I feel the same way about Rhianna, less so to an extent wrt Keisha Cole, but still she don’t do much for a bruh.

    hmm.
    queen latifah’s a bit too big for me, but beyonce, to me, TOTALLY falls into the “comes across as try-hard when she tries to be sexy” category. if i had to choose one of them for a thrill ride, yeah, i’d probably choose royalty.

    the only really _skinny_ chick on my list is heather carolin. for some reason, i just can’t resist redheads.

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  94. PA, ironrails –

    I just got back from visiting Moscow and Russia for my first time.

    I was pretty shocked because, despite all the hype, I was *not* that impressed at all with the appearance of the young Russian women, on the whole.

    Granted, I only saw a very small sliver of Moscow and didn’t go out clubbing anywhere. I did take the Metro a lot and so I was able to see thousands of Muscovites streaming past at every stop. The thing that impressed me most was the sameness of people’s expressions and the plainness of the faces, on both the men and the women. Not ugly, just plain.

    Also, even in the shops, the girls were unimpressive. And there are a lot of what I would call “internal immigrants” in Moscow — people from the Central Asian former Soviet republics, who somehow ended up in Russia when the USSR split, or came to Moscow later. These people have Asiatic or Eurasian features, and generally tend to be very short. (They kind of reminded me of our own Mexican and Central American immigrants, even down to the menial jobs they mostly held, and the way white Russians seemed to treat them dismissively.)

    The other thing that I felt was that people seem to pass from youth to old age (or at least, looking old) relatively quickly there. You see a lot of young people and young adults, and a lot of older, haggard looking people of both sexes with grey hair and wrinkles, but the long period of healthy, robust middle age that Westerners take for granted seems to be missing there — at least, I didn’t see much of it in examining the people on the streets and the Metro.

    I actually found the girls in Moscow much more plain and unexciting, on the whole, than the girls of Kiev, Ukraine.

    Maybe it was just the time of year I visited, though — middle of December for Russia, while all three times I visited Ukraine were in the summer.

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  95. Steve Johnson –

    Is it me, or have I noticed that successful Jewish men often marry outside the Jewish faith, while Jewish women tend to always look for the stereotypical “nice Jewish fella”, and put a lot of energy into searching for mates in places like J-Date (or whatever), Jewish social functions, etc.

    Pardon if this sounds like another stereotype, but it seems that many Jewish women, in general, are obsessed with the whole issue and dynamic of dating, finding a perfect mate, using matchmakers, reading and writing dating columns, and intellectualizing dating (not that WE don’t do any of that here, eh?)

    Whereas successful Jewish guys just find some cute shiksa and marry her, like Dan Senor (former Republican Hill staffer, journalist and investment banker) married Campbell Brown.

    And by the way, although Brown is older than Senor by about 3-4 years, she’s hella better looking than him… Woof. Has anyone SEEN this guy??? He looks like the apotheosis of nerddom.

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  96. “He looks like the apotheosis of nerddom.”

    yes so many jewish men are massive nerds, dorky beyond belief – and many jewish women are too, but while jewish men tend to be very skinny and pasty with no muscles because of all the book learning jewish women tend to be very overweight and flabby, and have annoying personalities – jews evolved in cities only and never developed bodies that were meant for hard work (farming), thus their bodies are very weak and spindly (they were merchants, bankers, scholars) while their minds are more sharp. most jews have extremely offputting personalities, and faces that look very threatening and rat-like though some jews have nice eyes. overall yes jews are not a very attractive ethnic group except maybe a few jewish teenage females.

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  97. VDV — Like Goldberg, Wentworth Miller, and Rob Morrow? You mean guys like that?

    FWIW in social observation, most professional class Jewish women in SoCal don’t make special efforts to date inside the small cluster of fellow Jews. They are not very stand-out from most professional class women in SoCal. They watch their weight, work out, tend to date in various professional circles (lawyers to lawyers, etc.). Same for Jewish Men.

    JDate and the like seem to fill the nice of older Jewish women who have not found LTR or husband material. And wish to satisfy various family members about good faith efforts. The same thing has happened to the Nisei.

    YA, yep should have seen it coming.

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  98. J5,
    Dang, small world-you got a Jones for the Redheads too, huh? You know, while most of our brothers just love em some Blondes, I’ve always prefered the Brunettes and Redheads, in fact, I consider the latter to be Mu’Min’s Kryptonite.

    LOL. I chatting w/Brown Sugar earlier this evening, and she said something that immediately reminded me of a recent convo we had. She said that I seemed very placid and smooth on the surface but got the distinct impression that just under that was a pot of boiling lava…and that’s what attracted her to me.

    Obsidian, indeed.

    Anyway, we share a lot more in common than we don’t. Always good to run accross another guy who don’t see nothing wrong with a size 12.

    And for my part, I love to see that booty jiggle.;)

    Salaam
    Mu/Obsidian

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  99. on December 28, 2008 at 11:15 am ironrailsironweights

    Here’s something new:
    a frat house (of sorts) for nerds.

    Peter

    Like


  100. J5keira knightley’s physique could actually deflate an erection for me.
    she looks like a sophomore at auschwitz

    *dead*

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  101. Whiskey, I have to tell you something
    *whispers in whiskey’s ear,”Wenworth Miller is Black”.

    Campbell Brown
    *shudders*
    Such an awful name for such a cute woman.
    vdv- Jewish women tend to have small waist on average. That gives them points in my book.

    Joe TYou see a lot of young people and young adults, and a lot of older, haggard looking people of both sexes with grey hair and wrinkles, but the long period of healthy, robust middle age that Westerners take for granted seems to be missing there — at least, I didn’t see much of it in examining the people on the streets and the Metro

    I think this may be partly diet and environmental. From what I’ve read, the climate is very harsh and the diet lacks wide variety of fruit and vegtables.

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  102. Hands down I am the winner with my top pics. Seriously, you cannot deny that the biggest betas are those who marry and then have half of their assets stolen through divorce.

    Paul McCartney’s divorce from Heather Mills was settled for $48.6 million.

    Talk about a bad investment. No pussy is worth 48.6 million, for that amount of money he could have had two 3p with smoking 10/10 hookers everyday. Of course he didn’t since he believe in “marriage” and “true love” like a dumb baby boomer. The generation that introduced feminism and killed chivalry in the process. It would be a travesty Roissy not to pick a beta born and raised during the rise of feminism, since it caused the rise of the biggest pussy whipped betas in America.

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  103. Roissy, here is the Beta of the Month right here. The story is about his wife, but the article talks about how she tightly clutches his hand while in court. This after sleeping over 300 times with a 13-year old boy, right under his nose! I wish there was more on the husband, but he’s obviously staying with her.

    http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1144341&srvc=home&position=1

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  104. Pathetic how these molesting women so often walk with probation while men get sent up the river for the same. Prime example of how men are told they have to fend for themselves while women are protected by the system, even when said man is a thirteen year old child. Insane. These women should be put away forever a long time just as a man would.

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  105. […] 30, 2009 by roissy When I introduced the Beta Of The Year contest, readers were very enthusiastic. I got more submissions than I expected and sifting through them […]

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  106. uhh… jewish people can be hot. Keep in mind that

    A. Many people of jewish ethnicity either do not know that they are jewish or know but it means little to them. Also, jews have been around a long time, and have lived in many cultures, thus creating a very wide variety of jewish ethnicities. Most of the jewish chicks I know of bangable age are reasonably cute/attractive. In fact I would say they are more attractive on average than the average american girl. This is in part due to their better upbringing, which equals a cleaner, more wholesome girl.

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  107. […] Bardamu Last week, Slumlord suggested that I launch a contest similar to Roissy’s Beta of the Month Award, only featuring dumb women instead of sackless men. After mulling it over, I’ve decided to […]

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