Marilyn Monroe Was Skinny

I really love these posts that rip feminist mythology to shreds (a fun and easy sport even the kids will love!). You can just imagine their porky forehead veins throbbing with rage as they read the following article by Virginia Postrel:

We should never again hear anyone declare that Marilyn Monroe was a size 12, a size 14 or any other stand-in for full-figured, zaftig or plump. Fifteen thousand people have now seen dramatic evidence to the contrary. Monroe was, in fact, teeny-tiny.

The 15,000 were the visitors who turned out over eight days to oooh and aaah at the preview exhibit for the June 18 auction of Debbie Reynolds’s extraordinary collection of Hollywood costumes, props and other memorabilia.

The two comments heard most often in the crowded galleries were (to paraphrase), “Wow, they were thin” and “It’s such a shame. These things should be in a museum.” […]

The auction’s top-ticket item was Monroe’s famous white halter dress from “The Seven Year Itch,” the one that billowed up as the subway passed. It sold for almost $5.66 million (including the buyer’s premium) to an unknown phone bidder. Sharing a rotating mirrored platform with Hedy Lamarr’s peacock gown from “Samson and Delilah” and Kim Novak’s rhinestone- fringed show dress from “Jeanne Eagels,” Monroe’s costume was displayed on a mannequin that had been carved down from a standard size 2 to accommodate the tiny waist. Even then, the zipper could not entirely close.

But that’s just one dress. Perhaps the star was having a skinny day. To check, you could look across the room and see that Monroe’s red-sequined show dress from “Gentlemen Prefer Blondes” was at least as petite, as were the saloon costume from “River of No Return” and the tropical “Heat Wave” outfit from “There’s No Business Like Show Business.

In fact, the average waist measurement of the four Monroe dresses was a mere 22 inches, according to Lisa Urban, the Hollywood consultant who dressed the mannequins and took measurements for me. Even Monroe’s bust was a modest 34 inches.

That’s not an anecdote. That’s data.

The other actresses’ costumes provided further context. “It’s like half a person,” marveled a visitor at the sight of Claudette Colbert’s gold-lame “Cleopatra” gown (waist 18 inches). “That waist is the size of my thigh,” said a tall, slim man, looking at Carole Lombard’s dress from “No Man of Her Own” (a slight exaggeration — it was 21 inches). Approaching Katharine Hepburn’s “Mary of Scotland” costumes, a plump woman declared with a mixture of envy and disgust, “Another skinny one.”

The pattern she noticed was real. At my request, Urban took waist measurements on garments worn by 16 different stars, from Mary Pickford in 1929 (20 inches) to Barbra Streisand in 1969 (24 inches). The thickest waist she found was Mae West’s 26 inches in “Myra Breckinridge,” when the actress was 77 years old.

The average waist size of American women in 2011?: 34.5 inches.

The insistence by fatty fat fatty apologists and the misfit motley crew of “cultural conditioning” feminists that Marilyn Monroe was a plump woman, a chubby chick, Rubenesque, zaftig, or, (my personal favorite), cuuuuuuurvy is nothing but the oinks of lying propagandists who want you to believe that men have since been somehow magically programmed by… who, exactly? Government agents? Hollywood? Frat boys? Stuxnet?… to prefer anorexic chicks over their true preference for supposed chubsters like Monroe.

For a long time this claim went unanswered; one, because no one bothered to fact check its self-evident PC truthiness, and two, because loudmouthed, ugly femcunts have cowed journalists and pundits into abject submission. But now the facts are in: Marilyn Monroe was a SLENDER BABE. There wasn’t a BBW bone in her skinny sexy body.

Women REALLY WERE thinner back in what the feminists call the bad old days. There wasn’t some fairytale fatopia in the 1950s when the men lusted for rotund mamas, and women were real women with curves and meat on the bones. Nope, women of the past were definitely thinner, and they were even thinner than what we would consider a thin girl today! That’s how warped our professed standards in female beauty have become. Men and women alike have drunk the feminist Koolaid, and coupled with the inability to avoid the sheer numbers of fat chicks rumbling over our frappuccino plains the result is a grudging, deflating acceptance that bigger, fatter, heftier women are here to stay, and baby you better believe they are HOT STUFF. A lot of men, seeing how few options they have when 9/10s of their prospects roll with a mushroom cloud top, are gonna revert to the one face-saving ploy in their arsenal: sour grapes.

“Hey man, I don’t want some anorexic bag of bones. Fat-bottomed girls make the rockin’ world go round. A whole lotta woman needs a whole lot more. Big girls you are beautiful!”

Nice try, JoeBob, but I know what you’re really thinking.

(Ever notice how gay male rockstars love to sing the praises of fat chicks? Wazzupwitdat?)

This is all part and parcel of a cultural plumping up of the American woman over the last half century to go along with her actual plumping up. Dress sizes have changed to accommodate the tender egos of the lardasses thundering around clothing stores now, so that, for example, what once was a size 10 dress is now a size 6 dress. What was considered a really fat chick in 1950 might’ve worn a size 15, but today the typical fat chick is so much fatter than her 1950s counterpart that she slips into the equivalent of a dainty size 38 number.

You can’t blame the retailers and clothing manufacturers, though. They just want to turn a profit, and if that means giving fatties an artificial high from being able to claim they wear a smaller size than they really do, then they’ll minimize dress sizes forever. If present trends are indicative of future results, a size 0 dress will soon be able to double as a mosquito net.

The fattening of American women is a goddamned fucking TRAGEDY. It robs the country of beautiful women, and thus robs American men of tactile sexual pleasure and aesthetic visual pleasure. A direct analogy would be if the nation’s men all decided to quit their jobs, shart on first dates, act like nervous dweebs and change diapers for a hobby. Yeah, don’t sound so hot, does it ladies? Now maybe you can grasp why every evangelical equalist effort to normalize expanding waistlines and rolling waves of blubber is a sin committed against beauty, and thus, against truth.

Game isn’t so much about being able to play the field in perpetuity as it is about navigating a shrinking dating pool of sexy slender chicks getting squeezed by an advancing army of fat chicks. It’s been written here before: as the expendable sex, men react to conditions in the sexual market; they don’t create those conditions. And right now conditions are Code Well-Fed, mothafuckaaaaaa.

PS I’d like to start a new advocacy group called the National Association for the Advancement of Half-Weight Women. God bless those half-weight women we’ve lost to the tidal wave of sugar and midnight snacking. Boners unite under the banner of Half-Weight Women! Raise your flag and smite the enemy Double-Weight Women! Smite them with a cupcake avalanche!


  1. no one bothered to fact check its self-evident PC truthiness, and two, because loudmouthed, ugly femcunts have cowed journalists and pundits into abject submission.

    Sort of like the feminazi lie about wife-beating on Superbowl Sunday.

    It’s almost like the media likes to repeat these (no-so pretty) lies to make an absurd point.


  2. Code Red indeed.

    I’m glad to be dating my former stripper gf, even though she is crazy as shit. I seem to attract hot and insane girls like flies to honey, but better hot and crazy than fat and passive aggressive.


    • Hey, are we dating the same girls? Mine are usually hot blondes and all are nuts.


      • No. Mine are usually hot brunettes or redheads.

        All chick are crazy as loons, so in the grand scheme of things, they’re pretty much the same. A realization of this fact is a sure prevention of oneitic infection.


    • asdasdfasd said: “…better hot and crazy than fat and passive aggressive.”



  3. But thank God! Marilyn Monroe was skinny, huzzah!
    On this note, the new hot chick in Transformers 3 is smoking hot in a size XSP, 5’7″ way. Let’s make Rosie the new standard of female beauty.


  4. If that is less than a 22 inch waist I will eat the crotch of that bathing suit. Having said that the wimmins of today overall are definitely of hog sized proportions as compared to yesteryear.


    • That’s too funny.


    • “before anorexia and implants, attractive women naturally had small waists and big titties.”


      • In fairness, before implants the chances of having a rack like that with a waist like that were one in a million.

        Thanks to implants, you can see that combination a dozen times over in any strip club in the world. Hooray?


    • that’s not what she looked like in Some Like it Hot (the one MM movie I saw). I also think that picture is enwidened.


  5. My mom’s waist was 18″ in ’59 when she married my dad. Mom is (and was) 5′ 8″ tall. I’ve seen the pics in their wedding album.


  6. Women used to be forced against their will to learn how to cook when they hit puberty. That was the overwhelming factor in keeping them slender (they sure weren’t hitting the gym in 1955).

    Now, doing so is sexist.

    Well guess what hun – let’s forget the fact that your appearance disgusts me.

    If we get hitched, there are going to be tough spots where I’m going to need to count on you having self discipline. Your inability to control what you put in your mouth and lack of willpower to exert your body indicate that you don’t have that.

    If we have kids, if that’s what you’ve done to yourself, what are you going to do to them? There are now rumors that some of you, already incredibly fat, let yourself go so completely during pregnancy that you are now causing an epidemic of pre-natal diabetes.

    Liked by 1 person

    • That was the overwhelming factor in keeping them slender (they sure weren’t hitting the gym in 1955).

      Well, it may not have been “hitting he gym”, but here’s Marilyn Monroe doing a bit of lifting back about then.

      marilyn monroe doing dumbbell chest press


  7. “Game isn’t so much about being able to play the field in perpetuity as it is about navigating a shrinking dating pool of sexy slender chicks getting squeezed by an advancing army of fat chicks. It’s been written here before: as the expendable sex, men react to conditions in the sexual market; they don’t create those conditions. And right now conditions are Code Well-Fed, mothafuckaaaaaa”

    “navigating a shrinking dating pool of sexy slender chicks”

    Nah, The range is just being pushed downward.
    Instead of half +7, (in my case, 24 +7 = 31),
    it’s now just half, or half minus 3.


  8. on July 1, 2011 at 10:58 am chaoserrant

    What worries me is that obesity acceptance is self-replicating as if it is on an evolutionary path. More to the point, in my circle of friends, an obese lady kept trying to hook me up when I was single. And she kept showing me overweight or obese eligible women asking me whether I want to get in touch with them although she knows perfectly well that I am turned off by obesity.
    The sad part of this is that instead of losing weight which requires effort and different life-style the tendency is not only to surrender oneself but also to seek to replicate your trait by promoting and nurturing other overweight/obese people.

    In other words, the theory of evolution says that if people who are getting fat will keep increasing in number, those who cannot be turned on by fatties will not be able to reproduce and all you have left are fat people that are able to get used to the problem. My guess is that the only way obesity will decrease is if it becomes recognized as dangerous as smoking and the health problems will create such a financial burden to the state that they will have to get past any political correctness B.S. and fight the epidemic head on.

    [Editor: You’re onto something. And this feeds my worst nightmares.]


    • Of course, obese people are also less fertile, and even their children are less fertile. Thank god.


      • Sadly, Marilyn Monroe was also infertile, so we are denied her genes today.

        What a shame. The daughter of Marilyn Monroe and Joe DiMaggio probably would have been hot as hell *and* have a hell of a right arm.


      • Marilyn wasn’t infertile. She was a slut who had abortions.


      • And got jacked-up by an ectopic pregnancy.


      • Reminds me of the entire premise of the movie WALL-E from Disney. Acceptance of inactivity and fatness became so pervasive that the entirety of the surviving human race couldn’t even get out of a lounger.


      • Eh, how ’bout Idiocracy…


    • Luckily your Darwinist nightmares are echoes of a half-baked metaphysic having little or nothing to do with reality.

      Aiee, this blog would be great if it wasn’t trying to build a fortress on sand. What does a nigga have to do to get some solid epistemology up in this bitch?

      You’ve seen WALL-E one too many times, son. C’mere, you can sleep in papa’s bed tonight.


    • it may be worse than you think: in chapter 12 of Gary Taubes’ book Why We Get Fat he explains that overweight women will give birth to children predisposed to become insulin resistant and overweight at an earlier age.


    • Obesity is not being accepted. It’s being classed as a disease, for which the government and medical science has $olutions they will try to convince taxpayers to shoulder.

      It is already happening here in Israel. Women are getting gastric bypass and other weight loss surgeries for free. If Obamacare had gone through, you’d be paying for this now in the U.S.

      …and the same thing will happen there that is happening here. You’ll have more skinny women whose sense of entitlement is through the roof.

      It all shifted within a year. A few months ago, I was marvelling at how so many women got so fat. Now I’m looking around, and most of the fat women have suddenly lost weight and very quickly.

      I feel like a dinosaur doing it the old fashioned way.

      Liked by 1 person

  9. No fat chicks!


  10. Jerry, the government is developing a race of mutant pigwomen, half woman, half pig.


    • Oft I have to wonder about that ratio, my guess would be that there’s more of a hog in that mixture. There are other experiments going on–woman/rhino and woman/elephant.


    • on July 2, 2011 at 10:10 am Dr. Kenneth Noisewater



    • Actually, they’re developing a race of drug addicted cyborgs who absolutely depend on the infrastructure to survive.

      They create a problem, and then offer a solution that requires dependency.

      Liked by 1 person

  11. on July 1, 2011 at 11:05 am John Norman Howard

    I’m pretty sure there was a movie where Marilyn allowed some guy at a party or night club to take her top measurement “to settle a bet”… the guy gleefully announced “Thirty-nine!”… and she did look every inch of it.

    And her bottom looked nice and zaftig in The Misfits and Gentlemen Prefer Blondes.

    Anyway, I don’t think I’ve ever heard Monroe described as ‘skinny’ or ‘thin’… anyway, she always looked gorgeously fulsome to me.

    [Editor: Normal weight women look gorgeously fulsome. It’s the “new normal” of today that looks fat and bloated.]


    • Marilyn was tiny.

      Normal sized boobs & ass on a tiny frame = voluptuous.


    • on July 1, 2011 at 1:26 pm Basil Ransom

      The number in “36D” indicates the circumference around the chest, just underneath the breast. A girl can have huge breasts and a small circumference. That is voluptuous.

      I screwed around with a 32F/32G for a time. 5’8,” thin as sin, with huge natural, albeit pendulous, tits. 32 is thin, 34 is fine, 36+ is pushing it. 2″ allowance if she does any serious lifting.


      • on July 3, 2011 at 11:01 pm Betadyermom

        Just like dress sizes, brassieres have been vanity sized to hell. An old girlfriend who was fairly petite and busty would complain that her size *should* be 34C, but due to grade-inflation, she was forced to buy “boutique” sizes like 30DD. (Victoria’s secret was apparently the worst about this.)

        So who knows what Marilyn’s 36D would translate into in modern terms. My guess with her small waist, she would be in that low-bandsize/super-large cup area.


  12. PS I’d like to start a new advocacy group called the National Association for the Advancement of Half-Women.

    Sounds like a shemale advocacy group.

    [Editor: Yeah, I suppose out of context it would sound like that. How about National Association for the Advancement of Half-Weight Women?]


  13. on July 1, 2011 at 11:07 am John Norman Howard

    And her bottom did look nice and zaftig in The Misfits…”

    Not to mention “Bus Stop”.


  14. You guys see this?

    “When you are a guest in another’s house, you do not declare what you will and will not eat – unless you are positively allergic to something.

    You do not remark that you do not have enough food.

    You do not start before everyone else.

    You do not take additional helpings without being invited to by your host.

    When a guest in another’s house, you do not lie in bed until late morning in households that rise early – you fall in line with house norms.”


    • Seems pretty reasonable to me.


    • This is very reasonable advice and I’m always glad when people point out (in a sensible manner) where I went wrong with the etiquette. Coming from a poor family, I never did have many chances to learn about these kinds of things or to have someone point them out for me, so I even avoided going to a cafe for lunch with anyone at work, being afraid of doing something silly.

      The comments on the article show a pretty clear gender divide: all the women are supporting the bride, while the men and seemingly older women are wondering if the mother-in-law actually was correct.


    • Yep, the soon-to-be mother in law was dead on right. The bride was a rude biatch.


  15. on July 1, 2011 at 11:09 am John Norman Howard

    From some website:

    According to measurements from Marilyn Monroe’s dressmaker:
    Height: 5 feet, 5½ inches
    Weight: 118-140 pounds
    Bust: 35-37 inches
    Waist: 22-23 inches
    Hips: 35-36 inches
    Bra size: 36D

    In other words, whatever her size, her figure was an unusually dramatic hour-glass, which makes it kind of strange for women to compare themselves to her anyway.


  16. Fat is bad…but there is nothing worse than fat and Irish.


  17. Chaosserrant, no. The solution is not to force everyone to see being fat as dangerous. Everyone outside of ancient Greek sculptors and Buddha worshippers knows that being fat is not healthy.

    What needs to be done is we allow people to make their own choices, and exercise our own freedom of speech by laughing our asses off. Obesity is not an epidemic. And, evem arguing that is how the FDA and CDC justify getting additional funds and wasting as much of our tax dollars as Rosie O’Donnell wastes on Dunkin’ Donuts.


    • on July 1, 2011 at 11:37 am chaoserrant

      What I wanted to say is that I would like to see obesity treated like smoking. With smoking you still have freedom of choice to smoke but now it is made socially unacceptable in the sense that smokers are forced out of public buildings or confined in tiny smoking lounges at the airport without anyone (besides smokers) complaining about discrimination.

      However, when Southwest airlines wanted to impose buying an extra seat for obese passengers there was a lot of crying about cruel treatment and discrimination although in the case of jetliners it is a mathematical fact: the fuel consumption is sensitive to the weight carried which is the reason why planes never carry more fuel than they need for a trip. In fact I read somewhere that an increase in the fuel consumption in the commercial aviation is linked to the upsurge of obesity.


      • You will see “fat discrimination” when health insurance companies start using BMI and other factors to determine health care premiums. Congress won’t be able to stop this, because preventative care will the the mantra for bringing down health care costs in the future. There are so many weight-related diseases that cost hundreds of billions of dollars to treat that there is no way that preventative care won’t be on the menu (pun intended).


  18. FYI, manufacturer’s are lying about the waist sizes on mens pants as well. “36” inch waist pants are typically 39″ or more. Same applies to smaller sizes.

    I think a lot of guys like plump chicks because they can be lazy as well. So sad to see so many people just give up on themselves.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I always assumed that men’s sizes were just what they said they were and thought how silly women’s fashion was for not being as honest. However, after reading your comment I went and got out the tape measure and measured my own waist. I must say that I’m shocked at the results.

      As a man one expects measurements to be accurate. I don’t understand the need for this deception. What kind of man would be upset at an accurate measurement?


      • Fuck, I wondered why my pant sizes kept getting bigger!! I haven’t even gained any weight for about 5 years now and I found it pretty odd when I’d try something on and I’d have to get the next size up. Messed up dude, good find.


    • There’s been a ton lately on how men’s sizes are growing an inch every few years. I’m down to a 29″ waist (paleo/primal) and my jeans measure 31.5″.

      One of my ladies is a vintage shopper and she found some jeans I might like, so I went over to the store (29″) and they didn’t fit. I pulled out my pocket tape measure and it was 30″. Those pants were maybe 10 years old.

      When guys tell me that they’re wearing the same size as in high school, I tell them to measure their waist. I’ve seen 36″ jeans measuring 41″.

      Metabolic syndrome, anyone?


      • I’m definitely not the same size I was in high school—but that’s a good thing. My waist is 33-34…but my shoulders are 42. And my body fat is now under 10 percent.

        For women it’s all about waist/hip ratio—but for guys it’s waist/shoulders ratio…or just not having a huge beer gut.


      • on July 1, 2011 at 4:39 pm veritas mundi

        Pardon me, but what is “paleo/primal?”
        Do you mean raw veggies and meat?


      • Primal – see, for example, Mark’s Daily Apple.


      • Yep, although I am more of an Archevore guy myself — ultra high fats (saturated when possible). On some days I’m pushing 70% of my caloric intake from fat alone. It’s diesel fuel for the body machine.


    • I always had a problem with a six inch drop between jacket size and waist size in men’s suits. I have a 12 inch drop (44″ jacket and 32″ waist). Nearly impossible to find suits.


  19. Norma Jean wasn’t naturally skinny. There’s a famous set of pictures of Ms. Monroe doing weights to get and keep the body she leveraged to get famous. She was simply blessed that she could keep her breasts while losing weight elsewhere (most women do it the other way). Her body type now is usually the result of naturally skinny girls dieting while getting implants.

    IMHO, going back to Pickford or Mae West isn’t fair to anyone. My grandfather (related through adoption, but still…) hit 6′ 2″ in college in the 20s, and was a giant among men. I hit 6′ 2″ in high school, and was only moderately tall. Number One Son just hit 6′ 5″ at 14 (and isn’t stopping yet) and he too is only moderately tall. Little Miss at 10 is significantly bigger than Pickford in all dimensions, and has only a small amount of baby fat she’s working on ditching.

    Anyone born before 1940 was essentially starved compared to people today, given our overloading of nutritional content. Barring an overabundant blessing of petite genes, women now can’t develop that small. You can’t get a 20 inch waist out of a girl fed as well as we feed kids now (again, barring lottery-perfect gene combinations); the organs and hips are just too big.

    However, there should be a difference between big and fat (a line I’m currently looking for with binoculars *sigh*). A “bigger” person (man or woman) can be at a healthy BMI (or “fat percentage”, or however you wish to measure it) for their weight. We shouldn’t use the excuse of being bigger people as an excuse to become or remain fat. The BMI explosion people are tolerating now is insane.


    • Your son is 6 foot 5 at age 14, and you describe him as only “moderately tall”?! He’s “moderately tall” for a god-damned professional wrestler.

      Liked by 1 person

  20. A photo of Marilyn in a swimsuit placed next to Christina Hendricks in the same sort of swimsuit shows how much slimmer Marilyn was, see this article.

    There was a fluctuation of 1-2 stone in Marilyn’s weight at points in her career e.g. in Some Like It Hot when she was pregnant (though she was still below average by today’s standards) but most of the time she was about 8 stone 6 lb at 5 foot 5.

    Liked by 1 person

    • christina is on the verge of becoming a land whale.


    • From the quoted article:
      It’s those marvellous breasts that get me – those glorious, generous scoops of vanilla, ladled into curvy cups. And the hips: proper, padded hips with a little bit of sway and a whole lot of soul. No matter how you cut it, Christina Hendricks looks incredible in her Lake Como swimsuit. Not slender, not skinny, not underfed like a stray cat or a catwalk model. Not, in fact, any of the things we’re accustomed to seeing when we gaze at pool-side celebrities. She just looks lovely”

      Ladled? Padded? Lovely? No, she looks like a bunch of kids are going to come running by screaming “Free Willy!” and try & shove her back in the water.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Bah. Christina Hendricks looks hot like hell. Actresses usually look too skinny to look at without craploads of clothing on but she’s hot.


      • Noo, Marilyn looks hot as hell. Christina looks oddly misshapen around the midsection. In fairness, that’s a paparazzi shot as opposed to Marilyn’s photo-shoot shot, so a pro photographer could make Christina look a lot better.

        Hendricks does look pretty good in Mad Men though. It could be weight fluctuations… or it could just be a triumph of 1950s undergarment engineering that redistributes that misshapen lower abdominal mass to places where it looks better.


      • She looks fat… shut up.

        Liked by 1 person

  21. I have had my debates on this topic. Oh do the fatties love to claim her as one of their own. If that is not enough, they go with the maximum weight as if that has anything to do with the weight they establish themselves as a sex symbol.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. A fat woman according to my wife has more than once given cookies to our boy which my wife said she had to confiscate. Its war now. I don’t give a fuck about polite society when you try to destroy my child with that shit. Fuck you all you fat fucks…


    • on July 1, 2011 at 12:08 pm chaoserrant

      I agree but I simply CAN’T fuck them:))


    • Who the fuck is she to give your kid anything without asking you folks first?

      I’m a rabid weightist (maybe one of the most well known in Chicago). I won’t just not date fat women, but I don’t even want them in my social circle.

      You can lose weight just by cutting grains. It’s that easy. There’s no excuse for being overweight unless you’re one of the 0.5% of Americans who actually DOES have a genetic flaw that underregulates hormones.


      • I’ve known one person that got huge because of his body going nuts on him. Even with doctors help, and a starvation diet of about 500 calories a day, his body didn’t want to drop the weight.

        But the rest that claim it’s their genes, I have one simple response when they say that. “If you don’t know exactly how many calories you eat in a day, it’s not genes; you’re just a lazy slob.”


      • No you didn’t one person who ate 500 calories a day and didn’t lose weight.

        You knew one person who measured 500 calories and excluded all the food that she discounted as “snacks”.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Correct. The US Government is at a loss as to the explosion in obesity in the past 20-30 years. Gee, maybe because the idiots push breads, pasta, etc. instead of meat, eggs, and lower-glycemic foods as the correct diet and the media are zombie-like in spouting the same junk. When I was in school in the 1960’s-1970’s, my friends and I would talk about the fat boy or fat girl in school, that’s how rare it was to see one.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Theres a dj on the local radio that I listen to who always jokes and talks about his fatness. Says things like, “never go anywhere without a sandwhich”…ect.


  23. Before you get all medieval… “some like it hot” was shot when she was preggers.

    The problem is that weight correlates with age, so if you want a hot skinny girl you end up trolling the high schools and freshman orientations. Between obesity, feminist indoctrination, bitterness and promiscuity, female appeal goes through a staggering collapse past 17.


  24. My last Oneitis gained 52 pounds since we broke up. The feeling I got when I saw her was a mixture between extreme Euphoria and sympathy.

    The rate at which obesity is spreading across America is going to make this blog soon extinct. We’re not going to need game to get girls in a couple of years, only harpoons.

    Long Live Big Girls.


  25. one point of contention, not having to do with the fact that waist size was absolutely smaller 50 years ago. feminists will often dredge up advertisements for products that assist skinny women in plumping up. of course this is mendacious, because the ideal body type in that era was a small waist, tits, and nice hips. so, whilst you’re focusing on the waist component in your post, i wouldn’t be surprised if the proportions were pretty exaggerated (thanks to corsetting, in large part) i would hesitate to equate “skinny” as desirable in the context of the monroe-era, when their conception of skinny was stick-figured, not feminine.

    of course by modern standards, anyone with a healthy weight (according to BMI) is “skinny.”


    • I use the BOM metric. Men have a device going back to the bone age that detects appropriate ratios with surprising accuracy. Any exaggerations that were not frequently seen in nature are easily detected by BOM.


  26. “The average waist size of American women in 2011?: 34.5 inches.”

    Jesus motherfucking Christ.

    Liked by 1 person

  27. Women are eating too much because there’s too many damn food commercials on TV. Sitting and eating, sitting and eating, sitting and eating.


  28. Nice read. But I wonder if you right wingers would support the gutting of the industrial/processed food complex and the corporations responsible for the larding of America. For this is the only way back from the dark pit of fatness we’ve fallen into. Or is that “anti-American?” Careful what you wish for…politics can be a double edged sword.

    [Editor: I would support ending government subsidies to the agriculture industry, yes. Is that right wing enough for ya?]


    • “But I wonder if you right wingers would support the gutting of the industrial/processed food complex and the corporations responsible for the larding of America”

      No need to. At least, not until they go around SHOVING the food down your gullet. Until then, learn to do “push-aways”. As in “push the fuck away from the table.”
      No one is forcing them to eat “industrial/processed food”.


    • Nice attempt at trying to deflect blame for land whales onto conservatives. You can blame them for Iraq, but the responsibility for the culture of freedom w/o accountability that women now use to look like Jabba the Hut falls squarely on the American left and their north western european allies.


    • Aww, and here was I thinking that maybe individuals had some control over what food they shovel into their mouths.

      Maybe you’d prefer that the government steps in to control what you eat? (Of course if that actually happened then in twenty years from now we’d all be 400 lb, because folks would just vote for whichever politician promised the largest chocolate ration.)


    • @Crawdad Yes, get the government completely out of the agriculture industry, end subsidies, allow healthy food producers to advertise the benefits their food provides, and allow people to bring lawsuits when big corporations make false claims that end up causing harm to health. Diet soda already has been proven to increase weight gain and severely impact health. Let the lawsuits get started!


    • no need to attack the corporations crawdad. obamacare gave us the weapon we needed when an individual’s health choices became everyone else’s business. commerce clause bitch. we’ll just mandate that fatties march on the government treadmill.

      Careful what you wish for…politics can be a double edged sword indeed.


    • I expected a better rebuttal than that. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that there wouldn’t be government subsidies for agriculture (or Wall Street, the military industrial complex, etc.) if there wasn’t a big fat corporation with thousands of lobbyists and lawyers destroying our democracy first. It goes without saying they should end. And please spare me the “shove away” argument. When a Big Mac coats less than a couple vegetables, there’s a problem that goes way deeper than “choosing” what to eat. There is no choice if you can only afford the worst food.


      • If you have a big government with lots of subsidies, it will be co-opted by interested parties, regardless if the libs succeed in gutting the first or not.

        In any case, the story of how the US food supply was destroyed reads like a libertarian wank fantasy. Leftoid vego freaks, paternalistic scientists, big gov-big corps in lockstep. I think I just came in public.


  29. Editor said “How about National Association for the Advancement of Half-Weight Women?”

    If the evidence at the pool I frequent means anything then you will need to change that title to The National Association for the Advancement of 1/8 size women. I kid you not. It is no longer just simply obese, but quickly going the route of morbidly obese. The sad thing is, I go to a pool that is associated with a gym.


  30. Coincidentally, I just watched “Clash by Night” yesterday. Norma makes an early career appearance as a sprightly, nappy headed youngster. The exhibitive silver screen telegraphed presence of milk fed, ivory snow girl baby fat.


  31. Being a foreigner I cannot get over how fat americans are (both men and women), they are disgusting giant pieces or lard. But the problem is that it seems to be “rude” to point out how nauseating it is. Heck, I discriminate fatties, it’s just wrong to hate on someone because of their race or gender, they were born that way and there’s nothing they can do about it, but overweight people are like that because they chose to, one cupcake at a time.


    • Don’t you know? You’re supposed to accept fat people for who they are, otherwise you’re being insensitive. Well, then I’m an insensitive @sshole. So sue me. And if you do, I’ll make sure your eating habits are front and center at the trial.


  32. on July 1, 2011 at 12:56 pm traditional girl

    Nice post. I’d simply like to add that Marilyn Monroe was almost certainly wearing a tight girdle under her dresses, like nearly all women of her time. A tight girdle whittles the waist 2-4 inches. Thus Monroe’s waist would have measured 24-26 inches — still slender and lovely for her frame.


  33. The fat arguments are ludicrous.


  34. Dammit, you can’t have a post title like that and not follow up with some pictures! I demand pictures of Marilyn Monroe. Preferably wearing as little as possible, so that we can really judge precisely what her size was.


  35. For the record I can enjoy fucking a chubby girl… the right type of chubby. Round ass, big titts and a cute face. She has to be young so the fat is dispersed even on her body and still has some firmness. I would much rather fuck that girl than a skinny twig girl with no titts or ass.


    • When she’s face down, butt up, her tits & face don’t matter.
      And when she’s face down, butt up, even a skinny ass widens out.


  36. This is still hugely dependent on social class and talking about “American women” lumps in a huge number of fat poor people. I’m very fortunate to live in a high income suburb and essentially all the women are normal size, very few are overweight and a large minority are actually thin. And this is moms in their 40s with school age children I am talking about. Plenty of them are working moms too, so it’s not that they all stay home and work out all day. They’re just not lower class.


  37. In her movie The Misfits, Clark Gable’s character asks if she’s a size 12 to which she replies, yes. I understand about vanity sizing blah, blah, blah, but saying Monroe was skinny is about stupid as saying she was fat.

    [Editor: So let me get this straight. To you, a line uttered by Marilyn Monroe’s character in a movie is more valid data than the actual dress sizes she wore. Got it.]

    The point is, she was a healthy weight and didn’t look like a malnourished pre-teen boy.

    [Leave your idiotic feminist talking points at the door. A slender sexy babe does not look like a malnourished pre-teen boy, no matter how often you say it.]

    It’s contrast to the 0% body fat models people are always saying clothes looks so good on and are so beautiful.

    The fact is, if Marilyn Monroe walked down any red carpet event today, people would label her fat and she would probably end up starving herself until you could count the majority of the bones in her body.

    [The data say otherwise. A 22″ waist Marilyn would be drooled over by leering men. The only ones labeling her would be sourpuss fat femcunts displeased that she isn’t one of them.]

    There needs to be a happy medium between obese and skinny.

    [The ideal BMI for women is 17-23, depending on frame size. The higher you go from BMI 23, the less attractive you will look, until a BMI wall is hit where you are repulsive to almost every heterosexual man alive. This wall is lower than you think. For most women, that fat wall is hit somewhere between 25-30 BMI.]


    • “The fact is, if Marilyn Monroe walked down any red carpet event today, people would label her fat and she would probably end up starving herself until you could count the majority of the bones in her body.”

      OK, fair enough. Homosexual’s in the fashion and entertainment industry judge women by their own desires – leading to a focus on women who look like 12 year old boys. The end of the starlet men lust after and household name supermodels is pretty well correlated to the rise of internet pornography, where men are free to shop for the images of the women they truly desire. However, I can assure you that there is a very large market for women who have 23 inch waists and 36 inch hips in the porn world.


    • I often see these “looks like a teen boy!” or “she looks anorexic, throw her a cheeseburger!” comments leveled at women with perfectly fine slender frames, and sometimes its men saying it. God its annoying.

      As if there’s something wrong with you for liking thin women, either you’re gay or haven’t been sufficiently politically corrected like a good little feminist soldier.

      It happened when you posted my picture of this tall and thin model:

      She looks likes a transvestite, its a trap!

      Yeah right. Nothing wrong with men preferring a little more meat on the bones than this woman has, and I won’t shame them for it, but don’t lie and say you wouldn’t be attracted to this woman if she were standing in front of you. Bullshit.


      • And yeah I’m not talking about the heroin addict models on catwalks, just regular thin women.


    • [Editor: So let me get this straight. To you, a line uttered by Marilyn Monroe’s character in a movie is more valid data than the actual dress sizes she wore. Got it.]

      No, I’m saying with all the speculation about what size she really was, there is an example of a size she must have been close to from her own mouth. I doubt it would’ve been included if she were a totally different size.

      [Editor: Again, that was a scripted line in a movie. So it was not from her own mouth. There’s no need for speculation on this matter. We have the dresses she wore and we know the sizes of those dresses. It’s game set match for the feminist fat apologists and their mythologizing of Monroe’s weight.]

      [Leave your idiotic feminist talking points at the door. A slender sexy babe does not look like a malnourished pre-teen boy, no matter how often you say it.]

      I’m not a feminist.

      [If you think like them, you’re halfway there.]

      Slender and sexy *is* beautiful, and that’s what Monroe was; however, to say that women haven’t been bombarded with images of malnourished looking women as ideal is not being truthful.

      [Another myth. They haven’t. The only super skinny chicks you see are those hand chosen by gays in the fashion industry to model ridiculous clothing. In contrast, wherever straight men have a say, the women featured in their preferred media outlets are slender, healthy and height-weight proportionate.]

      Monroe’s body type is not being epitomized as a reason to be fat, but as an archetype of a normal size, a soft, feminine look, and a body considered beautiful by society – specifically, men.

      [By today’s standards, Monroe would be considered too skinny. But she wasn’t. Today’s standards have shifted up into the fatosphere because there is now a giant constituency which gets a soothing ego boost from having those strict standards relaxed.]

      [The data say otherwise. A 22″ waist Marilyn would be drooled over by leering men. The only ones labeling her would be sourpuss fat femcunts displeased that she isn’t one of them.]

      Fashion police types consistently take stabs at celebs like Scarlet Jo., Jennifer Lopez, Beyonce, and Drew Barrymore (to name a few) for being sizes 4, 6, and 8. I know most men don’t share this opinion, but women believe it when they hear the message over and over again. Even if it is coming from other women and gay men.

      Regarding the 22” waist, I’d like to know if that was measured without undergarments.

      [The ideal BMI for women is 17-23, depending on frame size. The higher you go from BMI 23, the less attractive you will look, until a BMI wall is hit where you are repulsive to almost every heterosexual man alive. This wall is lower than you think. For most women, that fat wall is hit somewhere between 25-30 BMI.]

      For *all* women that wall is 25-30 BMI, being that 30 is clinically obese. I’m not arguing that being fat is attractive.


      • Women’s dress sizes are totally meaningless, especially over time. She may well have been a “size 12” for its time, but would probably be size 2 or 0 in some dress shops today. The higher the price of the dress, the smaller “size” it is labeled as.


      • Definitely not. I’m a size 0-2 (depending on the brand) and believe me, clothing companies draw the line at this point. They’re not going to make me wear a size 000000 so some people can feel less fat. Marilyn was NOT a size 0 or 2–she was bigger–not fat, but certainly not Audrey Hepburn (who would have been my size).


      • They’ve already done it. Size 0 is a recent invention, as is 00.


      • If you actually care about what men think, memorize this formula:

        0.62 <= [female waist circumference]/[female hip circumference] <= 0.70

        Scream and calls us pigs and misogynists and nazis to your heart's content – in the end that's the only thing we care about


    • Point of information: Marilyn Monroe’s BMI was between 12 and 15, well below a healthy one. Also, some of us have been shouting from the mountaintops that she was skinny since long. The difference between her and anorexic models promoted as ideal today is that she had feminine proportions despite being startlingly small. It’s about the fat distribution, not the fat…at least for me anyway.

      The current ideal is unrealistic not because it’s low fat but because it’s masculine, and most women can’t masculinize themselves without severely negative consequences to their health.


  38. The ease of food production and availability have made the country fat and simultaneously weak.

    Struggle and hardship are good for a nation’s people.

    [Editor: Exactly. Hormesis is good for the soul.]


  39. on July 1, 2011 at 1:47 pm The Alchemist

    One thing that never ceases to amaze me is women who are attractive in the face, yet let themselves get fat. Whenever i see it, i’m baffled as to how somebody could take such a gift and throw it away. Do they not realize how much power they hold by being attractive and in shape? Especially in today’s day and age when every other girl has waddles of fat swinging where their triceps should be. Being good looking and relatively fit puts a girl in the top 1-5% of females. They could, literally, write their own ticket for life. They’d have multiple high status men to choose from. They’d be happier with themselves. Be more apt to get hired for the good jobs. Life is a cake walk for a hot, fit, chick. Whenever i spot this wretched phenomena, i shake my head in disgust and think what a shame; a complete and utter waste of a beautiful face.

    The single, easiest thing a girl can do to improve her lot in life is to simply lose weight; good things will follow.


    • Totally agree. Glad to see that I am not alone thinking so.

      There is a redhead that I know who is a friend of a friend. She is horribly overweight due to eating food like “chorn” – which is mac & cheese mixed with canned corn. But you see her face and take off 50 pounds and realize that there is a stunningly beautiful face under all that flab – we’re talking magazine cover beautiful. When I bump into her I’m mixed with a sense of disgust and heartbreak.


      • “She is horribly overweight due to eating food like “chorn” – which is mac & cheese mixed with canned corn.”

        she eats high carb meals all the time? She needs to go low carb/primal ASAP. The longer she waits the slower the weight will come off. Tell her to check the success stories on


      • Alex speculates, “It’s not a conscious decision. Occam’s Razor – weight does a great job of protecting women from players, removing them from this sort of “game”, and they don’t have deal with marriage and long term LRT compromises.”

        It’s not usually a conscious decision, but it does not protect a woman from players. It makes them more vulnerable to the lowest of the low level dirty dogs.

        I should know. I’m a recovering fatass.

        Fat is just like any other kind of defect to a player. They pick women purposefully who have a lower sense of entitlement. Regardless of the lipservice to the contrary, fat or otherwise ugly women do not feel they deserve as much as others.

        So while the betas are kvetching about their pool of possibilities blowing up, alphas and betas with higher than normal testosterone who can successfully get a stiffy for a woman who isn’t pretty or who has the socially inconvenient defect du jour, are cleaning up.

        Having been on the wrong end of that a few times is why I don’t think shaming the fat as opposed to what’s behind it, is a good solution. It’s just feeding the dragon. All the girls you reject and shame will find at least temporary comfort in the arms of some alpha who tells her she’s pretty and has the frequent erections to prove it.

        Imagine a scenario in which hideous women are constantly making fun of you and treating you like crap, and hot chicks think you’re wonderful, and regularly pursue you for sex, whether they’re married or not. This is a fat or otherwise ugly woman’s life.

        Betas come in three flavors for the fat chick: chubby chasers, the indifferent, and hostile guys who call her names. Alphas come in two: interested and not interested. If they’re interested, she’s in for the night of her life, which will be the plural nights of her life if she’s pleasant to be around. If not, they just blend in with the majority, who are indifferent or hostile.

        Social dominance is for women what beauty is for men. If only the hottest, albeit skankiest, women gave you the time of day, how bad would you feel about your options? Sure, you would wish that someday you could find one who wasn’t such a slut, but you’d still be pretty busy.

        Those of us who care about happy long term relationships and living well over 40 are worried about our weight. Most American women though, are told that there is almost no such thing as a marriage that lasts for life anymore.

        So it’s the overly high sense of entitlement, yes, but don’t underestimate the hammer of hopelessness when those Hollywood dreams don’t materialize.

        When the alpha won’t be seen with you because you’re 130 lbs. then what’s the difference between 130 and 250?


      • Hey Nicole the Nutcase — even alphas with the highest testosterone levels tend to stay away from real fatties.

        Sure, they go for middling, mediocre 5s and 6s, when necessary. And sometimes they go for somewhat plump-ish girls with cute faces.

        But the real whales? Nope. Alphas stay away.

        That’s why they’re alphas. Because even with their very frequent sexual needs, they can still pull decent pussy that’s not 200 lbs.


      • What is a “real whale” to you?

        What is an alpha to you?

        Guys tell you what you want to hear, and parade their hoes in front of you, and this makes you think that this is who they always shag. It’s simply not the case.

        When I was even heavier than I am now, I attracted all manner of hardcore assholes, some of whom were scary on the level of Russian and Cyprian ex cons complete with corresponding tattoos. The skinny chicks are status symbols. When a rough guy who likes a good shag and not origami in bed, wants to let it all out, he finds himself a sturdy woman because she can take it and because she’s not so full of herself.

        I used to be kind of “grass is greener” about that before I came to this blog, but in time I learned to understand how things work and accept that I am just not going to be the arm candy.

        …but make no mistake that any woman who is clean and pleasant can get alpha dick. Submission turns them on.

        A fat chick may not be the preferred dish, but it’s like the difference between champagne and water. A guy may prefer champagne girls, but he needs water to stay alive.

        Some guys are only ever around skinny women, and if it’s common to be slim in that area, they won’t have such a high sense of entitlement because of that…but in absence of fat, he is looking for a bit of tomboyishness, or maybe a scar, or some kind of a defect that indicates a woman is down to earth, plus a pleasant personality and willingness to do what other women won’t.

        Predators go for the weak and the sick first because this is their nature.


      • “Predators go for the weak and the sick first because this is their nature.”

        Those who hunt for food! If you want to have babies it’s better to hunt the healthier girls.


      • Maya, I prefer not to live in a world of shoulds. Shoulds aren’t really relevant in nature. Is’s deserve the most attention.

        In the real world, men like vulnerability and submission and are severely allergic to drama.

        What men find most beautiful is what is most feminine. However, ideals are for art and superalphas’ trophy wives, arm candy, and betas for whom shagging someone close to ideal makes them feel like they’ve arrived.

        Also, please read anything I have to say about alphas in the context that I don’t like the hardcore alphas. I much prefer someone who can beta it down enough to sustain a respectful long term relationship in which I don’t end up being the unpaid combination bitch-therapist-accessory-to-whatever-crime.

        Attracting dirty dogs is not a good thing for me, and this is most of what I was attracting when I found myself in the sexual market again. Even before I was fat, this was most of who I was attracting due to looking like a boy with boobs.

        The guys who liked me most until I learned how to look more indie-but-matronly were scary thugs. If I don’t watch myself and purposefully act a little flaky when I’m out, they still gravitate towards me. Even the ones who don’t want to shag me or don’t seem to anyway, want to take care of me for some reason.

        Nobody looks the way they do in a social or biological vacuum. Men are evolved to be able to take in a lot of information visually in milliseconds. Certain flaws indicate that a woman can keep secrets, isn’t high on herself, likes whatever kind of sex, etc. Also, guys who had good mothers are often attracted to women who remind them of their moms.

        This does not mean that a woman should not try to look her best. In fact looking good is a woman’s best bet for getting a strong, but more conventionally wired type of guy. If you don’t love thugs, you need to not look like thug bait.

        If a woman is big or burly, she has to kind of overcompensate with the pink and unicorns unless she loves gangsters…and even with them, you would really rather be the snack stripper or something, than the long term emotional and/or physical punching bag.

        So it’s really better just to avoid all that and stay slim. Then by the time you get older you’ll be safely in a stable relationship with someone who’s alpha enough to keep you interested, but beta enough to keep you close.


      • Nicole,

        I have the problem you mentioned. God. I attract so many dirty dogs, especially recently. In the past I thought it was because I am ugly and stupid, but I found out that it might be because I am being too nice, willing to put up with just anything, have no self respect, willing to spent my precious time with dirty losers and letting them hit on me. And because I look lonely, weak and afraid, like an easy target. If you read my other posts you can find out that for my whole life I thought that I should be polite all the time and that I shouldn’t say no to anyone. Even in sexual context. Even when I felt terrible and disgusted. That’s what they taught me in my family, unfortunately.

        I think I should also behave more flaky than I do … I’m sad that I couldn’t do that in the past because I felt I’m worthless sexually and I was sure no man could love me … But now I don’t really know why these ‘dirty dogs’ are hitting on me? Do they think they have chances with me? Should I be more flaky and ignore them or should I accept that my SMV is that low? I don’t know. But I know that I HATE the fact that my SMV was once high and I didn’t use it. I’m sad looking back and seeing how little self respect I had.


    • deep down, i think all women know (or ‘sense’) that they are judged by the way they look. it’s in their core programming. the extent to which they consciously realize this depends on the efficacy of their social brainwashing (especially feminism).

      when you hear a fat woman say something like ‘i tried to lose the weight but it didn’t work’, it’s evidence that she’s aware that being fat is unattractive/unhealthy.

      and i’ve never heard a woman who successfully lost a lot of weight and became fit say that she wished she could be fat again.


    • Some women are addicted to food, some are depressed, and some just don’t really know that they can loose weight.

      But a certain number of women – they don’t this “ticket”. A certain number of women use weight to force men to ignore them sexually. For various emotional or familial reasons they don’t want what you think would make them happy.

      It’s not a conscious decision. Occam’s Razor – weight does a great job of protecting women from players, removing them from this sort of “game”, and they don’t have deal with marriage and long term LRT compromises.

      Let’s say you grew up in a family where somebody like CH was her father — somebody who saw no value in her other then her looks. She might think all het men are like him — and her future husband would think she was over the hill after the age of 30. So this girl thinks to herself: Do you want that for your future or would you rather be alone? Fat removes having to make a conscious decision about it.


    • “Especially in today’s day and age when every other girl has waddles of fat swinging where their triceps should be.”

      Including all of her friends. She’s more interested in having friends than in being hot.


      • As we all know, be careful of approaching the hot girl who’s out with her fatty/ugly friends. When a guy approaches and speak to the hottie or gets her number at the end, BITTER city….

        There’s only so long a hot girl could put up with that.


  40. I agree with this post. But American men must also look at themselves. Most American men disgust me with their fatness. I hesitate to even call them men – they have weak minds, weak personalities, and weak bodies. I give credit to those few American men who have it together. But I stress, there are only a few. I guess, in many ways, American men deserve American women.


    • on July 1, 2011 at 3:06 pm The Alchemist

      You may be right about american men having weak minds. But, in terms of bodies, that’s not what i observe when i go out to the bars. In fact, i think sterioids and weight lifting has become very mainstream in the US for men. Bars are packed with muscle head’s. In comparison to females, the males always appear to be way more in shape. Perhaps when you get outside the bar scene this changes…but, for most guys on hear talking about game, the bar scene is what’s most relevant.


      • Alchemist — there’s a big split taking place in American life.

        Yes, the bars and nightclubs and beaches are packed with ripped dudes who work out all the time and eat well.

        But the suburbs and rural areas are full of lard-asses. (And that even includes a lot of single men, who are hurting their chances…. Fortunately for them, there are fatty women ready to give some lovin’.)

        These lard-ass men do have an effect on game, though. They make it easier for guys in shape, by pushing themselves out of contention. frequently, they won’t even bother showing up to the bar to approach women. And when they do, they have less of a chance.


  41. on July 1, 2011 at 2:15 pm WaggingFinger

    “Boners unite…” errrr, I don’t think that’s a good way to put it.


  42. slightly OT,but my buddy and i were driving through s. williamsburg nyc and marveling at the hustle and bustle of the hasidic community there, everyone out and about, walking with strollers and gazillion kids. and then it occurred to us! here were real outliers, not only in the religious sense but in their slenderness. we could count on the fingers of one hand the number of obesity cases, these middle aged.

    so we tried to figure out why. surely the fact they lived in a walking city helped, but such is the case for other nyers such as ourselves and we didn’t benefit to the extent they apparently did. maybe running around after all those kids was the difference lol.

    then there are the kosher rules. surely no hasidic jew woud claim his diet is healthy (chicken fat? latkes?), but it does keep them from patronizing fast food.

    also there could be a genetic cause. they may as a group have the skinny gene in a really big way. they are after all pretty inbred, coming from an isolated part of europe and forbidden to marry out of their small cult.

    just throwing this out there.


    • i’ve seen plenty of fat trollish looking older hasidic women in other nyc areas, though.


      • so have i when i lived near boro park. but the hasids i saw in williamsburg belong to the satmar cult, the ones in boro park are of the bobov cult. they do not intermarry and are in fact implacable foes as ridiculous as that sounds.

        the more i think about it the the more plausible the genetic theory seems. perhaps some genius scientist could resolve the issue of genetic influence once and for all. compare these groups who are subpopulations of a small founder population who departed from the main body of eastern european jewry about 400 years ago. i bet there’s the element of genetic drift that may explain the difference. i’d love to know.


    • They cook for themselves. I’ll bet you the latkes are tempered by other foods that keep their overall calorie intake low.


      • i said that half in jest. i’ve been exposed to their food having lived as their neighbor in brooklyn, and while it’s not strikingly low cal, it is better than the fast food diets many of the rest of us eat. and they do prepare it themselves, something we should emulate for the sake of our looks and health.

        still,the hasidic diet is probably roughly the same among the cults (bobover,satmar, lubavitcher in brooklyn) as is all of them living in a walkable environment, as well as their adherence to kosher laws and avoidance of fast food.

        and so here we have a near perfect natural experiment. all it would take is a scientist to figure out what explains the variation in obesity rates.


  43. when you hear a fat woman say something like ‘i tried to lose the weight but it didn’t work’, it’s evidence that she’s aware that being fat is unattractive/unhealthy.

    and i’ve never heard a woman who successfully lost a lot of weight and became fit say that she wished she could be fat again.

    I think almost all women know they look best fairly thin (not emaciated).

    The Hollywood Golden Age look is the perfect weight for a short to average woman – a taller girl at that weight & waist size would probably be too thin.

    There is such a thing as too thin, when the thinness starts to show on the face, particularly after a certain age. Kate Middleton as she is today would look 10 years younger with 10 extra pounds on her. However this is rare enough these days.


  44. on July 1, 2011 at 2:36 pm Woman from Finland

    There’s pictures of MM at the age of 36. If someone says that’s fat they need eyeglasses fast.


  45. It appears the author was feeling quite jovial when typing out this post. teehehe!

    mosquito net joke made me-hehe!


  46. Interesting that you mention “rubenesque” among the euphemisms. Indeed this word is very popular as self-description of just plain obese women. But actually, most of Rubens’ girls were just a little on the chubby side, though he did feature a few chunky ones.

    In this context, not only Monroe is a common misexample of the big ladies of olden times. While there is some variation in ideals of varisome features, the venusian sculptures, paintings, pictures over the ages always show non-euphemsitically curvy, youthful bodies.

    [Editor: Not only that, but Ruben was the only artist of his time painting chubby girls. His contemporaries painted conventionally slender babes.]


    • What they really mean is reubenesque. Its also too vague a description since I would need to ask them if they fattened up with the beef or pastrami variants as well as choice of the russian or thousand Island dressing.


  47. Gomen, what about those famous Renassiance paintings of women. Some of them look slightly on the bigger end of the size scale to me. Or maybe it’s possible to be that curvy and be a small size (however you define small).


  48. While we are in the subject of weight (and I mentioned the pool earlier) what are the fellas thoughts on women in bikinis? I was always of the thought that to wear a bikini your body had better be near perfect, but I look around the pool and there are lots of women and teenage girls wearing bikinis that may not be fat but are chunky. Is a bit chubby acceptable in a bikini?

    [Editor: No.]

    I, personally, would not be comfortable like that.

    [Self-awareness is the first step to self-improvement.]


    • That’s what I don’t understand is the number of women with no so great bodies wearing bikinis. I wore a bikini when I was a slender teenager and a few years beyond that. After that I switched to a one piece. These women would look so much better by not showcasing all their figure flaws.


      • “These women would look so much better by not showcasing all their figure flaws”

        …and their character flaws.

        Oh, wait, I repeat myself.


      • oh please.

        i’ve never noticed a correlation between moral character and bmi. i’ve met too many nasty but slender SOBs.


      • Exactly.


    • For all I care, they can strut the streets nude. Just don’t expect me to appreciate their sexiness.


  49. I think beta_plus hit the nail on the head, female concepts of fat/thin are being driven by a fashion industry that emphasies straight as a rail stick figures. Back in the day, MM and other movie stars had real female bodies with real curves so compared to modern anorexic fashion models they look ‘fat’. Studies consistently show that men prefer a woman with an hourglass body, not one that looks like a test-tube. Think about that the next time a femi-nazi rags on men’s maganzines for promoting an unhealthy body image.


  50. People are often surprised at how short actors, actresses, and es-
    pecially pin-up models are in real life. The reason is simple: it’s
    easier to make them look good on camera.

    One man, Beverley Goodway, shot most of the “Page 3” girls who
    appeared in “The Sun.” Here’s what he had to say on the subject.

    “Height is important – the shorter the better. The average Page Three girl is 5′ 4″. Shorter girls have the curves we’re looking for. ”

    No fatties here


  51. Think you guys would have better luck here in Cali – significantly more pressure to be thin here, hence less fatties – and this view is really becoming predominant, despite the attempts by the obese to normalize their condition.
    Look at all the shit Michelle Obama’s gotten with her childhood obesity stuff, etc – there’s really a growing recognition that obesity is a dangerous choice.

    (in LA, though, one often sees older women who try to hang on to a too-skinny frame for too long – especially past 40, women look better with a little fat to pad out their faces and all, or they just look like bony zombies in person)

    Also -interesting on changing sizes over time – the average Civil War soldier was 5’5″ and weighed 120, women were commonly under 5 ft.

    Its well known among most women that clothing sizes have gone up – “vanity sizing” – but the more expensive the clothing, the smaller and more true to original sizing – due to the fact that the poor are more significantly ore likely to be overweight.

    I got my neg of the day, though – i thought I had a pretty decent figure at 36″-26″-36″ — until I discovered I have the same waist size as Mae West at 77!


    • I don’t know where you get your info, but I just spent three days in Gettsyburg with an archeologist/anthropologist/Civil War Historian and this very questions came up. The average Civil War soldier was not 5’5″ nor did he weigh 120lbs. He was appx. 5’8″ and weighed over 160lbs.


      • Huh – got my info from a ‘soldier’ at a Civil War reenactment (I can be painfully dorky). Thought I had an accurate source, but I’ll believe yours’


      • You were probably thinking of cavalry, rather than an infantry. The weight limit for cavalry was 150 lbs (thus, the typical cavalryman was around 140 lbs) because horses cannot carry a lot of weight for long periods of time.

        Don’t forget that the horse is carrying 75-100 lbs of gear in addition to the rider, and that they traveled for weeks at a time without a break, so the lighter the rider, the better. Which is why there was a weight limit for cavalry.


      • I’ve also heard 5’8″ and 160 pounds. Napoleon was also of average height for his day- 5’8.” He wasn’t a short man for his day at all, just not especially tall. The short myth comes from the mens’ nickname for him “The Little Corporal.”


      • Civil War average for men was 5’7″ and 147 lbs.

        “Men living in the Civil War era had an average height of 5-foot-7 and weighed an average of 147 pounds. That translates into a body mass index of 23, well within the range deemed “normal.”

        Today, men average 5-foot-9½ and weigh an average of 191 pounds, giving them an average body mass index of 28.2, overweight and edging toward obesity.”


  52. on July 1, 2011 at 4:14 pm Hellborn 20

    Most of those women wore girdles, which gave the impression of a wider set of hips than usual. Wider hips generally equated to being easier to carry and deliver a child, thus was one of the reasons men found it attractive.

    My father was in high school in the 50’s. Just flipping through his yearbook showed that more women were slender then than now. Of course, the beehive hairdo’s and glasses straight out of Far Side comics didn’t do most of them justice in the looks department.

    As far as Monroe went, anyone who saw her Playboy photo from ’53 could figure out she wasn’t fat, regardless of what fat slag feminists said.


  53. You’ll like this picture.


    (Testing picture imbed code)



    • not all that surprising. in the before pic, you can already see the flab on her arms.


      • on July 1, 2011 at 3:12 pm The Alchemist

        This is exactly what i was talking about above. Fat will absolutely devastate a girls looks. She went from 6.5-7 range in the before to 3-4 range after simply by putting on weight. She was a little chubby in the before photo but still cute. If at that point in time in the before photo, she had decided to hit the gym instead of Dunkin Donuts, she’d probably be an 8 with the world at her feet. Instead, she elected to go the sedentary, stuff your face route and now couldn’t get the attention of any half way decent guy who has options.


      • on July 1, 2011 at 3:55 pm Some Bullshit Handle

        I would not be surprised if her eating habits did not change at all. For one, look at her arms, as has been said. But two, I can not tell you how many girls (and guys, I suppose) I see that are under 22 that are not technically overweight, but already have that slight bulge in their stomach.

        Like, if they had any other diet, they would look like all of those thin girls you see in Eastern Europe.

        So, many of these fatter adults had pretty bad diets when they were young, but their youthful metabolism burned much of the damage. Then, given a few years and, bam, you are fat and ugly.


      • I agree, they don’t have the teenage metabolism to save them anymore. They’re disgusting and repulsive by the time they hit 22 years old (ugh)

        But I saved the best for last, here it is …

        (if anyone knows the code to imbed an image let me know)


      • Dear god… yeah if she had just hit the gym hard, she’d have the world.


      • I will wager that the “before” photo is at her bachelorette party, and the “after” photo is after 2-3 years of being married.


      • This is what happened to me, add my diet getting worse because Mom wasnt cooking for me anymore.

        Guy btw.

        Oh well, hookers are easier than losing weight so I’ll stick to them.


      • Sad thing is, she may not have hit the Dunkin Donuts at all. She may have hit the Snackwells, or the low-fat pasta dishes with the occasional boneless skinless chicken breast, or even the rice cakes. She may have also started jogging or some other “cardio” exercise. Many women rigorously follow the weight-loss recommendations pushed by everyone from the US government to Oprah, and find themselves just getting fatter and fatter, because those recommendations are crap.

        Fitness and health require more than willpower and desire today; they require rejecting mainstream advice that’s screamed at you dozens of times a day, and doing your own research to find out the truth. Most people aren’t ready for that.


  54. Women were a lot thinner back then.

    I was at an old woman’s funeral recently. They had a picture of her as a young woman, at her engagement, around 1950. She was very slim.

    Then I saw a picture of her with her nursing class (year, circa 1945). Most of the ladies were slim and really pretty as a result.

    I asked an old fellow – he said that the housework and running errands was the secret. Also, they didn’t gorge themselves like stranded manatees.

    [Editor: There is likely something to that. Housework kept women thin and sexy. So they traded the housework for status-conscious careers and spreading asses. Great job, feminists!]


    • And the work that women do is typically not manual labor, it’s pencil-pushing in a desk job.


  55. [Editor: Not only that, but Ruben was the only artist of his time painting chubby girls. His contemporaries painted conventionally slender babes.]

    Rubens was an outlier- you’d find him at a NAAFA mixer today, chatting up a 30 stone mama.

    If you look at Cranach the Elder, who was the Old Master most associated with painting nude chicks for “erotic” purposes, the girls have slim waists and big bosoms.

    No Fat Chicks is not a modern invention.


  56. Marilyn had a beautiful figure. Lots of pictures at different ages here

    She has a nice slim proper woman’s woman one with a good WHR. Proper curves and hips. And she had a woman’s stomach too, just right to signify fertility. This fashion for totally flat or not concave stomaches and tits on sticks.
    Why is this? Gay fashion designers? Porn? Cheapness of breast implants?

    [Editor: Flat stomachs on chicks are sexy. What’s not sexy are six packs on chicks. I don’t want to feel rippling muscles on any girl I’m sexing.]


    • “Editor: Flat stomachs on chicks are sexy.”
      What do you think of Marilyn Monroe’s stomach in those pictures?


  57. I love flat stomach on chicks. I also like the way the curves of a slender girl’s tits are clearly defined. Great contrast.


  58. All women should look like the tall thin big titted flowing long hair playboy models of the 70’s. With or without the bush, I don’t care. They were fucking gorgeous and had big fluffy looking titties. These women are no more!

    Well, no, they look like that in Eastern Europe but they’re money hungry bad teeth hookers who get rough-fucked by Rocco Siffredi when rent is due.


  59. I think Fred Thompson had to explain this once: Actors are not the people they portray, so just because I portrayed a bad guy in a movie once doesn’t mean I have killed people. That’s like saying Vivien Leigh had green eyes because Scarlet O’hara said she had green eyes.

    Also, if you look at the MM playboy photos, she wasn’t a chub. And that was what Hef felt would sell magazines to the horny.

    Thin’s always in.


  60. I’m verklempt. Just tossing this out there, discuss amongst yourselves, male weightlifting and bulking up is in response to fatty fat fatsos so as to maintain sexual dimorphism


    • At 300 pounds of roids, her 250 pounds will seem svelte. Tip to the modern american man.


  61. By today’s standards, Monroe would be considered too skinny.

    Hmmm… Okay, I’m done.



  62. I know this girl I’m tempted to pound when I’m drunk because she exists in this weird quantum state of almost hot/ugly because she was clearly hot as shit a couple years and 20 pounds ago but now has succumbed to the disease of caloric intake. She’s 27 and I’m sure when she was 24 she was fucking hot as shit: she’s clearly in denial over what has happened to her body. When I look at her it makes me want to sob. Why, Lord? Why take this flesh from the earth so young?

    It’s like invasion of the body snatchers.


  63. i’m old enough to remember a time when fat people stood out (born ’51) and it was tough to find larger size clothes. now? no problem. What changed? ch, given his thunderous condemnations, appears to think the american moral character has declined precipitously in the last 50 years or so. is this possible?

    i don’t believe so, here’s why:

    -we’ve always been programmed to finish what was on our plates. to waste was a sin. but portions are bigger now and we’ll finish even if we’re full.

    -fast food and carb-laden meals have pushed many into metabolic dysfunction that eventually snowballs. go into the countryside and observe the number of young fat women that did not exist there even 30 years ago (trust me) and ask why they are tremendously fat instead of merely a couple pounds overweight. I’m more likely to believe archer, daniels and midland are poisoning the food supply than those young women are insufficiently conscientious.

    -culturally we eat to live, instead of, like the french, live to eat. this hasn’t changed in 50 years. to sit down to a leisurely lunch on a workday is still guilt-inducing. so we bolt fast food, more accessible and cheaper to get than it was in the past, in order to get on with the next task our bosses assigns us. see above for consequences of metabolic syndrome.

    -finally a cause ch alluded to. there is little or no social penalty to being fat in some circles. geography and SES class seem to have an effect here.

    my 2 cents.


    • I think you have hit most of the key factors. Good post. I lived abroad for 23 years. I have returned to live here for the last year. I’m amazed at how many people actually look forward to fast food on a near daily basis. I cringe at the thought.


  64. Let’s examine this video, courtesy of the blog of a renouned liberal creationist, liberal atheist propagandist, and (in his spare time) biology professor. I’m referring to PZ Myers:

    If your eyes are still intact and you can still read this, I want to point out to you that the landwhales pictured therein are probably atheist not because of reason, but because this kind of prozelytizing brand of aggressive atheism it comes bundled with some other leftist memes, like feminism, which the landwhales probably employ to salvage their own, miserable self-esteem.

    One commenter (clearly on our side) notes:

    “Have you noticed that there are no attractive people here? I noticed that a lot, PZ’s visit to creation museum with hundreds of students, no attractive people, and sloppily dressed too with weird sloppy haircuts.
    Why is that, why is it when I look at young christians I see mostly attractive people well dressed with well maintained haircuts and when I look at young atheists I see the exact opposite? What’s going on?

    And the result is, predictably:

    “[Goodbye, Segmentum. You’re done. –pzm] ”

    The visceral response from egalitarian beautyphobes is sure to follow on this leftist, liberal creationist stronghold (that, to its merit, still allows some measure of free speech – which is nowadays something to be commended when it comes from liberals):

    “You’re so stupid that your sense of esthetics gets completely overwhelmed by a comb, a bit of cloth, and a bit of makeup. That’s what’s going on.
    Oh, another thing that’s going on: you like rambling about utterly irrelevant issues – not merely off-topic in this instance, but globally irrelevant ones.
    Good riddance. ”

    “at the risk of committing a major faux pas, I’ll have to comment on that, too. Not on the first part, which is pointless whingeing about other people having a different aesthetic. On the second part, re: well groomed (by business-culture standard, even) Christians. Because that’s a real thing: when you’re selling a shitty product, you very much rely on personal charisma including personal appearance to make the point. Especially true in the cases of Mormon missionaries (who only come in extra-neat, as far as I can tell), and interestingly enough it also applies to those Christians trying to proselytize among youth and alternative cultures (at which point they adopt the preferred style of that subculture)
    IOW: it’s a sales tactic practiced by snake oil salesmen since the invention of snake oil”

    “That was an astonishingly superficial statement. So much so that it Roman-candles teh stoopid in every direction.
    And a display of bad taste, and a cheap objectification of everybody out there.
    You asked three questions:
    1. No, I didn’t. Nor would I have agreed. Nor would I have expected to define people the way you just did. Makeup makes the woman? Dry-cleaning and a “Welsh comb” makes the man?
    2. Because you are a superficial person. A superficial person who can’t think for yourself to see past social conventions that have no meaning except that they are formulaic–tie, polyester, hairspray, caked-on makeup. Ooooh, “Sunday best!” If you were an old Shinto, you’d deprecate the lack of a shaved head, topknot, and laquered hair or a kimono and wig; if a Muslim, you’d be apoplectic at the lack of a burqa; if an old-time Taoist, you’d be deploring the demise of foot-binding; if a Hindu, you’d be appalled at a woman not in a sari with henna tattoos and a nose ring. And so forth.
    3. What’s going on is that you have skewed values, dishonest biases, are grossly superficial, and can’t think for yourself.
    This is a site where people think for themselves. That’s the key point. You fundamentally [sic] don’t get that. Sometimes we err, and get jumped on. That’s fine, its a corrective. But you are incapable of thinking for yourself; so much so that you can’t even see that it is there to be seen…so much so that you can’t even try.”

    I’m an atheist myself, but I can stand the arrogance of those who replace a theistic religion with a non-theistic one and then brag about their superiority, while not realizing that they’re infected with an even uglier (both literally and metaphorically) virus.


    • “On the second part, re: well groomed (by business-culture standard, even) Christians. Because that’s a real thing: when you’re selling a shitty product, you very much rely on personal charisma including personal appearance to make the point.”

      They might want to try it sometime. Because of the shitty product they have, they couldn’t even give it away, much less sell it.


  65. on July 1, 2011 at 7:13 pm Original JB

    I think part of the blame has to be placed on the USDA pyramid and the guidelines that have been popular for quite awhile now.

    That diet (counting calories) is a recipe for failure. They need to switch to the Harvard pyramid diet, talk up “good calories, bad calories” concept, warn about the fattening effects of processed carbs and potatoes and explain what the unprocessed (whole grain carb) alternatives are.


  66. on July 1, 2011 at 7:16 pm Master Dogen

    Part of the problem, too, is that even the few girls that *do* stay in shape are thick and manly. Girls are encouraged to do athletics throughout childhood and high school. They eat like offensive linemen at an NFL training table, and swim (or row, or whatever) 4 hours a day.

    They are “in-shape” in the sense that they have low body fat and strong hearts and lungs. But their bones grow very thick and hardy. The “girls” are just … BIG. So even the ones that aren’t that fat have thick waists and torsos, broad shoulders, etc.

    Organized sports is a good way to keep your daughter out of trouble in a world that desperately wants her to be a little coked-out slut before she’s 16. So I understand why SWPL parents push their daughters to become athletes. But there’s a severe price to be paid: she loses her femininity forever.


  67. Correction: “I CAN’T stand the arrogance of … ”

    BONUS: A hot atheist prozelytizer from a country not yet fully under the sway of political correctness and feminism (Romania):


    • It’s Kant in a sundress. Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Morals with tits and a peroxide bottle. Best translation yet, accent and all.


  68. People talk about this diet and that diet and maybe one is better than another but people don’t get fat because they ate the wrong food they get fat because they eat too much. It’s pretty easy to get feedback on if you’re eating too much: get on a fucking scale. If you weigh more than you should, eat less of whatever the fuck it is you’re eating. It’s pretty simple.


    • Losing weight is harder than you make it sound. The body likes fat. It is stored energy. The body is programmed to react fiercely against deprivation and starvation. You are locked in a death-struggle with yourself.

      Add to that a culture of superabundant food, the first in human history where fatness is a mark of the poor rather than the rich.

      Only Jap-level shame and a complete reversal of the self-esteem culture has any chance of defeating these primal impulses. And what is more primal than hunger? Breathing? Thirst? That’s about it. In other words, we don’t need a cultural shift so much as a revolution, so severe that it counteracts one of our body’s basic urges.

      The logic of the scale is impotent against the animal pangs of our gut. It’s silly to waste breath on the obvious.

      Stop yelling at their metabolic instinct; it’s not listening. Rather aim your ire at the enablers who say “You are beautiful / No matter what they say / Words won’t bring me down” or “Pretty, pretty please / Don’t you ever, ever feel / Like you’re less than fucking perfect” or “I’m no beauty queen, I’m just beautiful me / You got every right to a beautiful life, come on / Who says, who says you’re not perfect?” It’s everywhere, putrefying kids’ minds the minute their old enough to listen to the radio.


      • on July 2, 2011 at 10:25 am Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

        Bullshit, read _Good Calories Bad Calories_ or _Why We Get Fat_ and get educated on the “calories in calories out” myth. It dovetails into Paleo, and how the human body has evolved over millions of years into an opportunist omnivore but has not yet reconciled the last 10,000 or so years of grain and fruit cultivation and breeding. IMO the sort of folks who “can eat anything they want and not get fat” are actually the vanguard of evolutionary adaptation to the modern grain/carb-based diet. There are essential proteins and fatty acids, but there are no essential carbs.


      • Holy shit! I completely agree. I decided to boycott the radio after hearing two songs in a row extolling perfection as a state of mind. I’ve decided that my little girl will never have a radio or TV in her room. Ever. I don’t have to worry about my son…they don’t write those kinds of songs for boys.


    • You don’t gain weight because you eat too much; you eat too much because your body is trying to gain weight. Your fat cells and hormones like leptin are in charge. They decide when to store energy in fat cells — or muscle or bone or organs — and they trigger hunger and cravings to get you to provide that energy. Good luck trying to battle your own metabolic processes with sheer willpower. Much better to figure out why it’s happening and change the underlying cause.


      • “Good luck trying to battle your own metabolic processes with sheer willpower.”
        If you can’t do that, you’re a sorry-assed excuse for a human being.
        We are humans. As humans, it is our prerogative to keep our biological preferences in check. Otherwise we’d be animals, and humans would just be a more sunburn-prone form of animal. A willingness to set aside baser desires and wants is what makes us great. When you forget that, you’re left with slobs, psychopaths, and politicians. Also bitches.
        It’s amazing to me how few people these days can survive the simple pangs of hunger without freaking out. Your body wants you to eat. What do you do? Act like a human, not a dumb animal. Decide if a temporary relief of hunger pains is worth looking like Michael Moore.


  69. Geez, I just made the most insipid comment a person could make.


  70. You know why guys like big boobs in America? Because it’s the only way they can be sure it’s not just an extra roll of fat. A B-cup thin asian woman is hot.


    • There, there. You just keep consoling yourself that asian pussy is just like the real thing. I’m sure it is.


  71. I’ll just add that the reason why Marilyn Monroe sometimes seems “fat” to contemporary Americans is that her clavicles don’t hang across her shoulders like towering bridges. Here’s a picture of Monroe:

    Compared to some random chick I found on Google:

    As you can see, the other chick’s clavicles really strut off her chest, and that look is not particularly uncommon among today’s celebrities. Beauty icons from yesteryear don’t have such pronounced bones. I suppose it’s that today’s beautiful, slender women complement their dieting with chest presses in the gym.


  72. on July 1, 2011 at 8:00 pm White Woman

    Also, most Americans don’t get enough Iodine in their diets. The thyroid gets sluggish…metabolism is super slow…add in a sedentary lifestyle, processed foods etc and voilà!-millions of fat women and a number of fat men too.

    Probably not the best article but it will get people started if their interested.

    If I save Western Civilization by posting this, I want credit.


  73. I like Britney Spears body more than Angelina Jolies….should I kill myself now?


  74. on July 1, 2011 at 8:39 pm College Grad

    I can’t count the number of times I’ve have this discussion about fatties in my social circle. They all know where I stand. It always starts with “My God you are so superficial!” or “You basically like anorexic chicks.” But somewhere along the conversation someone, maybe even a girl, will have worked up enough courage to say “Yea, honestly fat people kinda gross me out.” Suddenly the tone will change and the discussion turns toward stories about seeing fat people everywhere.

    The feeling is out there. People are just so brainwashed into political correctness and self-delusion about what is attractive that an obvious truth would get so much flack. Shame the fatties gents, it’s for their own good. Seriously.


  75. Normally, I disagree with most of your posts, but this is a real sore spot for me. On an individual level, I would never discriminate and/or hate other women for being overweight, but at the group level, I really hate fat women (and for the record, fat, entitled men who think they deserve a 10). As a natural size 0-2, I’ve had to deal my entire life with fat girls who have called me “anorexic,” and I’ve had to deal with snide comments and stares from chubbters every time I order a salad (because, surprise! I actually love dark-leaf lettuce) or a small ice cream (because the normal size is usually too big for me to finish). In addition to this, I eat healthy and workout because most of the food I like happens to be healthy, and working out feels good–and I respect my body.

    I am so sick of all the reverse discrimination that takes place. I’m not anorexic, “boy-shaped,” or unwomanly, and I am sick of fat women telling me otherwise. Most women to be fair, will never be able to be as thin as I am without a lot of hard work, because I hit the genetic jackpot, and some won’t be able to even if they work really hard at it, but that doesn’t mean they can’t embrace a healthier lifestyle. I am so sick of all rationalizing and the petty name calling.


    • You pinpoint the real problem here: not only is there not enough pressure on women not to be too fat (for their own good as well as others), there is social pressure on women by women not to be skinny!

      Weight has been pointed out as a network effect: if you’re fat your friends on facebook are more likely to be fat — and now that the whole fucking world is networked together every time another wildebeest eats a cheeseburger in Buffalo another whale is beached in Miami.


      • It’s female-female mind games. You deserve that extra pound of cake, he doesn’t love you and you’re so fabulous you should get a divorce, and all that.

        Great way to fake out the BFF competition, or drag them down to your level.


  76. on July 1, 2011 at 9:08 pm Anonymous coward

    True incident-I was looking at a locally authored,locally printed history book,and since the guy that wrote it was a retired teacher,and the son of another teacher,a lot of the images in this book are class pictures of various elementary schools,ranging form the late 1800’s to maybe the very early 1950’s.

    About the third time I was looking through this book,I finally figured out what I wasn’t seeing in those pictures.

    Fat kids. There weren’t any.

    I looked a couple of more times,to be certain,and there were NO fat kids. Not one.

    And these were farm kids that ate pork sausage,beef steak,and most likely nearly anything else they could get their hands on. Bread universally had butter on it,and baking was done using lard as a fat. And when something got fried,the fat used was – again – either lard or butter. No low calorie,low fat anything of any kind,and their diet also had a hell of a lot of salt in it,as well as a bunch of other stuff that would have the average 21st century nutritional expert throwing a screaming fit,but there wasn’t anything wrong with those kids,and I’d comfortably bet a paycheck that they were all in better shape than most of the current citizens of the U.S.

    Of course these kids also had things to do like working on the farm when they weren’t walking to school or riding a mule to class ( if they came from a family that could afford to do without a mule ) and there is never,ever a shortage of work to do on a farm. So there weren’t any excuses for not doing some kind of work.

    My take is that most people have no idea how sedentary a life they really live. Calorie burning takes work,and work is something most 21st century Americans would rather not do.


    • They were healthy (partially) because of those animal fats, not despite them.

      Another good bit of research is to watch any documentary from before 1970 with crowd scenes of ordinary people walking around. I was watching one from about 1965, and people were pretty dressed up, so there could have been a few extra pounds hiding here and there; but there were no obvious fatties. Not one.

      1977 was when the US government, with Senator McGovern riding point after becoming enamored of the Pritikin diet, officially got behind the vegetarian-inspired anti-animal-fat myth. The obesity explosion since isn’t a coincidence.


  77. Feminism involving anything related to the dating world (ie, more than just voting rights) was always led by ugly women or women who lost out in the appearance stakes.

    It’s consistent. Naomi Wolf was one of the few non-fugly feminists and she was very gingerly embraced by standard feminism; they didn’t quite know what to make of her in her heyday. The reason? She said nothing they didn’t agree with: what they disagreed with was that she wasn’t repulsive. This didn’t make her attractive – it’s just obvious to even insiders at the time that most hard-core feminists were extremely ugly or fat.

    Look at Dworkin. She needed a forklift to move.

    The”Fat Acceptance” movement goes beyond the generalized refusal to accept responsibility in this culture. At it’s core it’s a rejection of standards by women who lost out on the dating market.

    In fact, if you look further, you’ll notice something else. The bitterness that typifies the feminist radicals is characteristic of the bitterness old women or women who marry betas have: the only men they ever get to commit to them are ultra-appeasers and personalityless betas. Either they emasculated these men or the only men who associate with these women are gameless.

    All the hard-core feminists I knew drifted away from their feminist absolutism as soon as they scored some asshole or alpha guy – suddenly they didn’t think in lock-step with the sisterhood. This happens so rarely because the feminist Sisterhood is almost universally unattractive to the opposite sex.

    Of course, the feminist sisterhood is also filled with self-determined political lesbians, too; but the distinct lack of sex among “lesbians” as a rule tends to imply that they’re not fundamentally very sexual or much attracted to each other, either.

    I’m comfortable with twice daily sexual episodes of reasonable duration. Spiced up with more. I’m approaching 40. The vast majority of lesbians I’ve ever spoken to – and this is a large number, given college and the fact that I work with hard-core SWPLs in television and media – have all insinuated that there’s a tragic lack of sexual interest among women who (claim to) like other women.

    Sex surveys consistently show that lesbians have, by far, almost an order of magnitude; the least sex of any sets of couples. It could be the lack of testosterone, the wonderful sex hormone.

    But I suspect it’s because the Alpha Fuck Me reflex isn’t activated, either, and hence the burning desire to be held down and pounded by a big, strong male (or in their cases, female) is also absent.

    So they end up cuddling, … or not even that.

    I strongly suspect that lesbians are no different at their core from straight women, and hence the hard-core lesbian / feminist almost “prohibitionist” attitude towards sex: all things sexual are anathema. Deviance is harshly punished. Aggression is forbidden. Power-play (the be-all and end-all for most human sexual interaction) is forbidden – we end up with boring genital massaging to the goal of weak orgasms when the random associative factors add up sufficiently to enable two people to engage in wholly mutually enthusiastic sex. God forbid that one might want sex slightly more at one moment than another.

    All of this feminism and the attitude towards sex and the lack of sex among lesbians and the feelings of negative self-worth among the fat and the increasing fatness of America all connect in the real world when it comes to accepting fat people.

    I’ve never shown the slightest bit of interest in fat chicks. I’ve nearly straight-out told one woman who harassed me at work with hints of a suggestive nature for half a year, finally, that I’m rarely attracted to women at work because I dislike overweight women. I didn’t address it to her, but she got the message immediately and I never again had the slightest hint of interest from her.

    Incredibly, despite the fact that I’ve show up to social events with one of two extremely slender, attractive women when I showed up with someone at all has had no impact on what women perceive as what my personal interests might be. I still field conversations like this:

    “What do you think of X or Y ex-co-worker? She’s gotten fat.”
    “You’re kidding? She was always fat.”
    “She used to be fat and attractive, now she’s just fat.”
    “No, she was always fat and unattractive. You can’t qualify that.”
    “There’s fat and there’s fat and cute.”
    “No there isn’t. There’s just fat and ugly. I have a dick, it tells me what I need to know.”

    Inevitably, the chick in question isn’t obese (they never, ever talk about this; obese women are terrified of these conversations). Usually, she’s not obese, just chunky, without much of figure.

    What’s worse is when they start going on about how X or Y has such a good figure. Inevitably, these women are fat, but have attached large breasts or a really round ass, as if it makes up for the rolls of fat and the lack of a waist.

    Of course the tits are huge. The woman can’t see her ankles. Everything is huge.

    The recent wacko “all men are rape supporters” post by that insane crazy feminist troll claimed that among a long list of bizarre “pro-rape” positions a man could hold one was “If you have a “type” or “typical” female form that you’re attracted to, then you’re a rape supporter”– exactly, perfectly clarified the issue.

    Women resent being judged by men. Specifically, women who lose out in the sexual market by being fat and unattractive resent it. if you judge them, you view them as objects. If you view them as objects, you’re a rape supporter.

    Well, women are sexual objects to men, have been since the dawn of time, always will be. The reverse is also absolutely true. Despite her claims, that has nothing at all to do with rape: People objectify everything.

    But her argument pointed out what’s really at stake, here. it’s not some pure ideological war of right against wrong, or hetero versus homosexual aesthetics. Lesbians I’ve known have bemoaned the total lack of attractive women to date because they’re all as fat as moo moo cows: one lesbian I knew for years used to make mooing-like noises to ridicule women behind their backs. She said she spent most of her time admiring straight chicks and wondering if they might be bi. Non-fat lesbians all seem to lament the grotesque porking-out of increasingly asexual lesbians after the age of 30.

    What’s really at stake here is the socio-political battle of women versus men in the dating market. The “opt out” men-are-evil-fish-bicycle-divorce-him!-Alpha-Rider women, all different, are united in their need to exaggerate female-centered power over male power in all circumstances.

    When it gets to fat women, the argument gets into a subset of this. Since the most vocal anti-sex / anti-male propagandists are *fat* women, especially voluntary non-heteros (ie, not the real from-birth lesbians) and heterosexual women, the fatties get their gargantuan panties into bunches because the only way they have to equalize the disaster that is their SMV is to “normalize” their disgusting conditions.

    They can do this to some extent, but a quick check on the sexual marketplace always brings down their delusional machinery. This is why the endless, continual activism: the Flaccid Penis effect isn’t susceptible to remedy through Self-Criticism Sessions and Public Denunciations.

    Their husbands still would rather masturbate to hot internet babes or, in worst-care scenarios, to memories of college babes they once knew. The men who dump fucks into them after they get their poorly-thought-out divorces barely feel the need to engage them in conversation; all they’re doing is masturbating into their holes, when their holes are visible.

    Those who scream loudest get heard. Those with the motivation to scream are those who lose consistently. These were first, ugly women; then fat women.

    Take a look. How often do you see non-lesbian hot women leading the feminist brigades? Virtually all feminists of that ilk that I knew were notoriously frumpy (but expecting men to like them) or fat, often both.

    “Not into fat chicks” is a much worse crime than almost anything else. A serial criminal is okay, so long as he’s into fat chicks.

    Anyone with eyes can see that all of these debates have nothing to do with inherent rights or social justice or anything like that at all.

    They’re nothing more than power plays for the women (and sometimes men) who are weak and pathetic players in the sexual marketplace. Women who, at best, never turn any male eyes and have to work like bastards to get the slightest recognition from the men in their lives – and often go months without having sex, if not longer, even when they’re with a guy.

    There are almost no exceptions. Go find some and see if I’m wrong.


    • #1. “I strongly suspect that lesbians are no different at their core from straight women, and hence the hard-core lesbian / feminist almost “prohibitionist” attitude towards sex: all things sexual are anathema. Deviance is harshly punished. Aggression is forbidden. Power-play (the be-all and end-all for most human sexual interaction) is forbidden”

      Two words: Penis envy.

      #2. “Lesbians I’ve known have bemoaned the total lack of attractive women to date because they’re all as fat as moo moo cows”

      That’s what happens when they all try to be butch.


    • You have a blog or something?


  78. BTW, women: If you’re maybe thinking that you’re overweight, check to see if this is true and bypass your hamster whee.

    If yave a BF, and he doesn’t spontaneously approach you for sex more or less all the time, as in whenever he’s free and has some time to spare and isn’t exhausted, then it’s almost guaranteed that he’s either gay, much less sexual than most men or has a physical problem. Or that he’s not sufficiently physically attracted to you: Enough to be with you, basically, but not enough to motivate his sexual circuitry on a regular basis. This kind of guy will always be desperately thinking about banging some other chick. It’s these men who go to prostitutes, out of a kind of sexual desperation, men clinging on to liferafts in a sea of sexual self-denial. Prostitutes act like release valves for desperate men who, for whatever reason, can’t stomach more sex with their women.

    That accounts for almost every single female complaint of lack of male sexual interest. The whole “My husband never touches me” meme, like from Married with Children if anyone unfortunately remembers it, can be summed up this way:

    Wife: “You never notice me. Sex!”
    Husband: “Ahem. I’m tired.”
    Wife: “Sex!”
    Husband (grimace): “No.”

    (husband might get it together to give you some tongue; but if the penis doesn’t respond, or he continues to drown himself in alcohol/work/looking after kids/whatever, you should start to take a look in the mirror; He’s assiduously avoiding your fat ass).

    Bitch and whine about how useless men are. In their 20’s, non-fat women bich about how easy and stupid men are. In their 30’s-40’s, they bitch and whine about how hard it is to get even their husbands to look at them.

    Take same guy and put him in with hottish 25 year-old girl: Scwhing. How about 40 year old non-fat woman. I’ve seen 40 year-olds that get me hard from time to time. Not often, but it happens. These women are always slender and graceful. When young men fantasize about older women, it’s always about slender, graceful, poised women with authority and charm. These women of fantasy are never, ever fat.

    Most of America’s male impotence could likely be cured through the careful and measured application of non-fat women.

    They don’t even have to be 18-24 to have that effect.


  79. ANd for guys tired of the American Land Cows we’re plagued with, same effect in Germany, …

    Get on a plane and expatriate. Go to Asia, my friends. In Asia, women know their whole social value depends on their sexual market value, and their sexual market value depends on their appearance, and their appearance depends primarily on not being fat.

    Men know it, too, and they now their SMV depends on their authority and money, and they work their whole lives to acquire this.

    As men, we can cheat this: Be a cool foreigner; be interesting; trigger other “alpha” signals. As women, women have appearance to fall back on.

    Women in places like China and Korea and Japan know this. They know their social value depends on being attractive, even when it comes to other women.

    They haven’t bought into the lies in America or the West.

    We believe the same things, as our celebrity culture shows: We just have deliberate counter-reactions that endlessly try to run upriver. We deny our animal natures in a liberal-creationist-fundamentalist attempt to make biology and human socibiology “fair”.

    We didn’t evolve to be fair. Even our intelligence didn’t evolve for political or social fairness. We evolved to breed. There’s nothing else in it. Religious or liberal fantasies of “correctness” are exactly that.

    If you’re a white guy, seriously consider ditching bitchy white women. Asians from NE Asia have high IQs; your own white women are among the most racist people around (see actual dating stats), and the conservative / raist white women are the most shaming when they see good white men with non-whites.

    Fuck them. Ditch the useless hags.

    if you’re 20-something, get the fuck out of the West and go somewhere where it’s still possible to be a Man and have Male Interests.

    You don’t need to find submissive little Asian girls. Rule: They’re not submissive. They can be bitchier and you’re getting into a relationship-war situation. They come with expert fighting skills, too. Far from being submissive little women, these are women with a capital W.

    The advantage is that they know their value and they know what motivates men. They know how to make the root centers of your brain activate. They know how to project value to you.

    American women, in their fight for “equality of outcome / absolute equality of consideration”, have made themselves net liabilities to men. They also don’t understand Men or Maleness at all, as abundantly shown by feminist delusions like the Fat Acceptance movement or the “I’m Tough and Independent why doesn’t he like me? He must be weak for not liking strong women” movement.

    That hot, slender, tempting Asian girl will crush your balls if she can – exactly like an American woman, she’ll emasculate you if she gets the chance. She’s a WOMAN: All women do this. There are no “Weak Women” in Asia.

    On the other hand, the average dress size in HK is 0; in Korea, it’s 2. Japanese women are legendary for being hot, and all the guys I know who date them are happier than rats with cheese.

    Somebody call you a White Traitor? Tell her to fuck herself. Feel bad about leaving the White Cows behind because you’re abandoning your race?

    Fuck it. White women abandoned white men and elevated themselves to the height of arrogance.

    Go to Asia or somewhere where women and men know what women and men are actually about, and what we’re actually for.

    If you end you end up with a non-white chick, tell racists where to stuff it up their wives’ fat white lardasses or tell the White Women! to take their bitter Feminist pill and shove it up their unfindable bunghole.

    The absolutely best advice it’s possible to give to a young 20-something white guy in America with any moxy is: GET THE FUCK OUT.

    Let your penis do the voting. That’s guaranteed, I tell you, to be the route to most male happiness. And we all know it.


    • My penis vote no fat chicks, and NO ASIANS!


    • on July 20, 2011 at 12:55 am Fortitudinal

      Thank you Mr Gorbachev.

      I did it.

      Im sharing my experiences because this blog has been tremendously informative and a source of endless, well articulated, fascinating discourse.

      I went all of July to China, prospecting and getting a feel for the land. Went, as Mr Gorbachev suggested, to Shanghai, Nanjing, Suzhou. Then West to Chengdu. Southeast to Kunming, further southeast to Hong Kong.

      Long time reader, and lurker, first time to post something lengthy. Bear with me.

      By this blog’s standard, I am a lesser alpha. Im 31, in shape, good looking on a good day. My game is not what it could be, but there are good moments here and there. Id like to think I have vastly improved. Yet China handed me generous humble pies left, right and center. But what a great learning experience.

      Gentlemen, as you know, game is universal. I have a degree in Anthropology; Game has always interested me for academic and personal reasons. But in China it became evident that Game really is beyond culture, and that it cuts deeper into our programming than what most people and academicians would care to admit. Alpha and Beta exist here and in China. Peacoking, negging, HDV, its done there too. It works there too. Few guys have any notion of Game, and women are very receptive to a cocky guy who knows how to deal with women.

      I base my observations in participant observation (really fancy way of saying just trying to get laid) in bars, nightclubs, cafes and restaurants. Night game seemed easier, daygame was a lot of hit and miss. Mostly miss. I tried to engage at least as many dames as possible, for fun and profit. I didnt care either way of the outcome, since my time was limited there, but I had some pleasant surprises. I still had a somewhat hard time ‘letting go’, the old ‘wherever you go, there you are’ played tricks with my mind.

      The language barrier didnt make things any easier. But with decent kino, body language, physical comedy, I managed makeouts here and there. No closes. I fucked up a threesome in ways I dont know. A phrasebook didnt help all that much, since it had some of the worst lines Ive ever heard (Lonely Planet, lol irony).

      The nightclubs in China are as you would imagine: small, crammed with dudes, and expensive for the average local. But the dudes have no Game (they will resent you, so watch your back), the locals will try to get you drunk (for being a foreigner), and the dames will be curious why are you all the way there. Win-win-win. Oh, and dont dance. Dudes arent supposed to dance. Found out the hard way (I suspect this killed the 3way).

      What Gorbachev said in previous posts is as true as day follows night.

      There is a saying that goes somewhere along the lines of ‘ a girlfriend from Nanjing, a hooker from Shanghai, and a wife from Chengdu’. I can see why.

      Nanjing: Gorgeous town, great layout, clean. Beautiful women (NO FAT CHICKS), friendly to foreigners. Tall, fine features, more refined than Shanghai girls. They do expect you to ‘bring it’, as Mr Gorbachev said. I ended spending here more time than anticipated. Would be a good stepping stone for those not ready to go full native.

      Shanghai: you will get shanghai’ed here. Good looking town, but not my style. Too big. Too heartless. Dames were hit and miss. Very western for China.

      Suzhou: enjoy the gardens, they will rattle your cage. Sleepy town otherwise. People were nicer than Shanghai, no question.

      Chengdu: Its remote. A 28 hour train ride from Nanjing on the regular train. But by god, what a town.
      I have found my Shangri-la.
      This city is known as the ‘model capital of China’. The stories are true, there are beautiful women as far as the eye can see. Nightclubs packed with models. Dont expect big asses, but long legs, tall and shapely dames are the norm. Big tits for their frame are not unusual. Most importantly, NO FAT CHICKS was the first thing I noticed. Girls were well coiffed and feminine. Oh, what a delight to go for a walk.
      Not only attractive, they are Women. They have a reputation in all of China for their fiery temper, so keep that in mind.They will drink at (almost) your pace, eat whatever is going, charm and humor you. Great at flirting. A pleasure to hang out with.They do aim to please. And lots of them, fostering competition.
      The language can be an issue, since they speak a dialect not all that related to Mandarin, but everyone understands Mandarin. Some will revert to dialect, unless you mention it. English is spoken to varying degrees by young people. Older people wont, but are more amenable to sign language and phrasebooks.
      The city itself is well laid out, and has gorgeous teahouses, Great food (cheap, interesting, available everywhere, SPICY), a subway (only one line, but its clean and cheap). The commerce is organized by trade, so there are blocks of bikes, electronics, etc. Propaganda is subtle, but everywhere. Taxis are fairly cheap. Public gardens that rival those of Europe, for when you need a break from the city hustle.

      Kunming: maybe not as hot, but still NO FAT CHICKS. Small dusty town compared to Chengdu. I went here mostly to see the midget town.

      Hong Kong: Crammed, busy, hot. Not as hot girls, average seems to drop. Very westernized, a tropical NYC with a British twist, if you will. Chicks were cute (but less than Chengdu) and small. But they have a reputation all over China for being gold digging whores. Beware.

      I am in the process of settling things here (Canada) to move at least for a few years to Chengdu. Here I play sommelier, but Im bored. No more stupid cold weather, fat entitled chicks, taxes that I barely make. I dont have a wife, kids or anything too serious, so I should be able to elope by December. Im learning Mandarin, both by myself and in classes.
      I might be there at the bottom of the pole, but with decent game, my good looks and testicular fortitude, I know I can make a decent living there. Not to mention getting laid like a rockstar.

      So, a big, heartfelt Thank You to Mr Gorbachev, CH, Et. al., for showing me the light. This is the challenge I needed. And I’ll make it happen. I hope to find a way to buy you guys a great bottle of wine. Something you can say you got from your sommelier, who now lives in China, after you did him a favor.

      And you can say it with not a word of a lie.


  80. I posted pics of my live-in here . I’ll keep them up for a day or so.


    • Very nice.


    • oh god, i imagine from the pix that she’s a sweet young thing. please don’t abuse your power by abandoning her when she ages out as is inevitable despite our best efforts. honor her by making her the mother of your children as you’ve been fantisizing. the best case scenario for the both of you,

      i wish you both the best.


      • I was looking at pics of a girl I lived with for a few years ending a few years ago. Wow. At 23 she was cute. At 28 she is a mess. Unbelievable change. A nasty bout of acne caused facial scarring, which despite my liberal spending on treatments is still noticeable. And she just aged fast and badly. Ten wows and twenty holy cows.

        This girl is just recently 22, and if i leave her for aging, that would be my longest relationship ever.

        And contrary to the virginity freaks, this one is MUCH improved under my hand. We’re in that lovey dovey stage where there isn’t thought of breaking up, but I’m a high socio-sexual guy, so, no promises.


  81. This post is nonsense. Audrey Hepburn was skinny. By that standard of the day, Marilyn was not skinny. Nobody then thought so either. I know, I was around then. Nobody looking at a Marilyn Monroe movie today would think she was skinny. She had a zaftig ass, no matter how you looked at it.


  82. on July 2, 2011 at 12:02 am Survivorman

    If American men would collectively *STOP fucking* fat American women, in 6-8 weeks.. there would be no more fat American women.


    • We mostly do, Survivorman.

      Check out a typical big-city U.S. bar near last call/closing time. You’ll find that even the big crowd of desperate guys makes only the most half-hearted, tepid efforts at picking up the fatties.

      And earlier in the night, or at work, or at church/the park/etc, men rarely make efforts to talk to them.

      But any sense of shame the fatties feel doesn’t materialize into weight loss, unfortunately.


    • Exactly. Even for a pump and dump, fat chicks are out! Have some self-respect, gents.


  83. Nice find, blogger, nice find.


  84. @Exsplat,

    Despite the critics that come out and will try to humiliate you, because she’s not a 9 / 10, your lover is-

    Not fat
    Is likely nicely enthusiastic in bed
    is loyal

    Should all men be so lucky.

    Enjoy it.


    • I’ve said before that her face could be considered a nine or 10, and that I doubt most men would rate her as less than an 8.

      I’ll stand by that.

      I’m sending her to the gym today to tone up her ass.


    • Oh, by the way, the strangest sexual fetish is arising in me. I’m fantasizing about making the girl pregnant when fucking. How twisted is that?

      Very strange biological urges going on. Kids?!!!


      • No, it’s not strange at all. It’s deeper than biology. It’s spiritual. Mere biology says bust a nut wherever you are inspired to: on a pretty girl’s face, on her brown nipples, up her tight shitter. But the spirit says drop your seed where it is likely to take root.

        Even the monstrously selfish can’t so completely denature themselves to imagine being severed from the great chain of existence stretching back to the first sentient creature and forward to eternity. The procreative impulse rears its head in unlikely places and inconvenient times.

        Has the “selfish gene” has taken hold of xsplat? It’s what Darwinist doctrine insists. But why can’t you fool it? Why is it taking residence in your sex fantasy instead of the reservoir of your prophylactic? Because you can run, but you can’t hide from the essential purpose of your life. You can lie, you can bury yourself in positivist theory, but you can’t completely suffocate this particular hamster. You are called to co-create or pro-create: spilling your genes out to the world so that they may exist in your absence doesn’t quite trip your id. You positively want to generate something new, something yours, like an artist or a builder or the Creator of all things does himself. (CCC 2367)

        Run, run, run, atheists. Hide. Sneer, snicker, lash out. The spirit will hunt you down. “Kids?!!!” No. Something much more unfathomable: God?!!!

        P.S. Brown nipples suck. -1. God does not prefer dingy aerolae. They’re staring at me right through her trashy negligee. Pink or GTFO.


      • Her lips are naturally pink. That rare pink that seems to only occur on young girls with no lipstick on. That color will give a man a boner.

        As for brown nipples, there are shades. And there are shapes. I get huge emotion riding on those pillows, man, and my fingers have never found better nipples.

        I love her for her tits, her smell, and her face, in that order. Coming in at 4th place is her immense romantic feeling for me. We’re still in that phase where sleeping in the same bed means nearly sharing the same dreams, our bodies are so close.


      • It’s wuvvv. Look at you, you’re a poet. Sharing dreams, huge emotions, what more evidence is needed?

        Forget the jimmy hat. You know that a specimen like that was made to take it raw.


      • Too much unfiltered drugs in the drinking water.


      • You said it. Anyone who believes in ghosts and “spirits” should lay off the pixie dust.


      • Assuming Xsplat isn’t sarcastic, I have felt the same way towards some girls in the sense that the idea of impregnating her put me in another level of horniness compared to merely fucking her. The way I see it, however, it’s because impregnating a girl is the supreme act of power over her, as if you were sealing her destiny: “no longer you will seek another man, for I end your quest here and now; no more you will roam in the sex market, for I take you definitely off it. Here your availability and freedom comes to an end, and now you lend yourself in your entirety for the inception and raising of my seed” all of it the girl will be the happiest to oblige if she is truly in love. This is how I currently see the act of parenthood and I’m still fully aware that the kid itself is irrelevant as it is only the inception itself and only what it means to the girl is what interest me. This is worrying, as I’m sure this is the path to marriage and betaness. Above all, it is the supreme act of materialism (perpetuation of genes rather than ideas) and essentially proves that parenthood is nothing but the pinnacle of narcissism.


      • I have felt the same way towards some girls in the sense that the idea of impregnating her put me in another level of horniness compared to merely fucking her.

        Me too, though it proved that my subconscious isn’t such a great judge.


      • You’re not talking about parenting a child, you’re talking about siring a child.

        The two things are very different.


      • I’ve totally got that one.

        Talk about ownership and defilement. It’s the ultimate.

        Sterile sex is laaaaaaaaaaaame


      • The better her figure and the younger she is, the more the urge to knock up.

        Try it with a 19 year old with 32E-24-34 body. Roar!


  85. I have a different take. Women are FAT because they can afford to be FAT. A Fat chick can still score a higher beta, with little penalty. Because most women won’t touch a Beta male.

    Look at the UK. It’s “thar she blows,” and “Free Willy!” Fatties everywhere, left and right. All over the place. By a time a girl hits 18, she’s already fat as a house. Why?

    Because she can AFFORD being FAT! She can still have a thin, in shape guy just not an Alpha. The preference by women for Alphas means that those not competing for Alphas, can afford to be a giant fat whale. And they’ll still get married. Because Betas are desperate. [To some extent porn is a substitute or coping mechanism.]


    • on July 2, 2011 at 1:37 am Good Luck Chuck

      Another thing you have to take into account is the fact that almost any woman can get laid anytime, anywhere, but landing a commitment with a high value man is a different story.

      Women today have an inflated sense of SMV in large part because they mistakenly assess their market value based upon how much sexual attention they get as opposed to their ability to land a commitment.

      As long as women can ride the carousel until they are past their use-by date this will continue to be a problem.


      • They also base it on what they would see as attractive, such as a good job and an education. Totally off-base, of course.


    • Totally agree,
      whilst women often whinge about the unrealistic figures in fashion magazines and adverts – blaming the media for manipulating the idea of female beauty, the real social conditioning that has taken place is that men are commonly chastised if they call fat women unattractive, as though it’s both insensitive and unenlightened – fat models on catwalks & nigella lawson on tv apparently prove that fat girls are every bit as hot as the size 10s in playboy, right?

      No, never ever. It’s impossible to actually feel primal lust for fat chicks. Men lose their vitality when around them, and the fat chicks involved lose out by not being part of the attraction game.

      Betas are getting their minds reprogrammed en masse, whilst their inner lizard mind is headed full speed towards hourglass figures, whilst their cerebral cortex is getting all sorts of crazy shit jammed in its pipes and decides that Jabba is a close enough match.

      Women, put down the pies and walk away slowly.


      • To be fair, models do lie tremendously about their weight and current culture forces them to. I’m 5’8 and weigh 120 lbs–but I look healthy and have curves. It’s ridiculous to see a playboy model my height (and with curvier bodies-aka more fat) list their weight as 110. It’s just not true. I can easily see how women who have to worry about their weight would be insecure and feel hopeless when they see that.


  86. Like

  87. OT: I just had anal for the first time with my alpha fuck buddy.

    Didn’t know who else to tell, since both him and the sex are a secret from my friends. Haha.


  88. Are mad these Americans!
    I woder Rossiy what do YOU consider skinny?
    For me skinny are sizes 32, 3
    Size 38 is normal and size 40 is fat! And by prpotions written somewhere on the top of comentary Marilyn was ranging from 32 to 40, meaning that by the end of her life she WAS fat.


  89. on July 2, 2011 at 3:48 am Rock Granite


    Because most women won’t touch a Beta male.

    You poor pathetic dumb freak. You can’t help yourself can you.

    Every fuckin post you make on every fuckin website is your psychotic fantasy that women hate so called beta males.

    Whiskey women don’t want YOU because you are an OMEGA dork.

    Women in the real world LOVE, like, date, marry BETA males ALL the fuckin time.

    You know why? Because BETA males are NORMAL. Normal, average, regular guys. Not pimps, gang members, biker felons and other misfits who scare the shit out of you.

    Normal = Something you will never be. You omega freak.


    • Compare and contrast:

      What modern women want: a beta male
      by KATE MULVEY, The Sunday Times
      Men are surrendering in the sex war, taking on the supporting role


      Duped out of motherhood
      by KATE MULVEY, Daily Mail
      Painful reality: Kate Mulvey believes she will never have a baby



      • These lines from the second article constitute the counter-argument to women who often argue that men won’t grow up (the “kidults” slur)

        “Looking back, I think I was suffering from delayed maturity syndrome. I was so used to acting like I was 27 that I had convinced myself I was in the prime of my life.

        The trouble is no matter how much botox we inject into our faces or how many miles we run on the treadmill, we cannot change our biological reality.
        Delayed maturity means that many women out there waste their narrow window of fertility. Right up until last year I was in denial, telling people that I was a “free spirit” as if it were some kind of badge of honour.”


    • see a shrink


      • I read the linked articles by Kate Mulvey. You should too. Then do a google
        search and read about the face lift she had at age 40. Look at the pictures.


    • Women increasingly don’t marry beta males. Those that do, regret it and harbor ill concealed contempt for “Kitchen B*tches” as they call them. No, women don’t like Beta Males at all. Edward Cullen, Dracula, the pouty guys on Gossip Girl, any male “hot” character on a women’s TV show or movie, those guys are not Beta Males. They are Alphas.

      Yeah of course women HATE HATE HATE Beta Males. They find them as repulsive as guys find fat chicks. Maybe even more so. Play a game of “Marry/F–/Kill” with any ordinary woman, and see how they really feel about Beta Males. Or watch any TV advertising (aimed at women) or anything female-dominated (Lifetime, Oprah, etc).

      Yes Beta Males are normal. But guess what, women don’t WANT those guys. They’d rather be in a soft-harem with a biker or gang member or semi-pimp or low-rent Russell Brand [the favorite bad boy of UK ladies.] Women don’t dream about a “nice supportive guy” and do about bad boys.

      Sorry to burst your pathetic bubble of illusions. Your pretty lies are just that, lies.

      Women can afford to be fat. If women really valued Beta Males they’d stay in shape to compete for them. Beta males don’t get women competing for them like Alphas — they just Land Whales who openly loathe them.


    • While yes, omegas get little action, your ideas about betas are wrong.

      Beta and alpha is just about the notion that some men are better at getting pussy than others. An alpha can be a law abiding, normal guy, a beta can be a biker felon who’s a member of a gang. In all walks of life there are alphas and betas.

      The issue is more than women have shorter, less fulfilling and less sexual relationships with betas. They do of course have relationships and fall in love, as most men are betas.


      • I’ll second the second.


      • TheSecond, I can understand why you’d have the opinion that you do, but Whisky is right. I’d add to that the reason they feel they can afford to get fat isn’t just because alphas and higher betas will screw them anyway. It’s a kind of a shit test or punishment to her beta partner if she gets stuck with one or finds herself feeling she can’t get any better. Her dreams are dashed against the reality that she is not the cream of the crop, and in a very Darwinian sense, does not qualify for an ltr with an alpha, so she implodes. She’s miserable, and going to make her partner miserable too. Being fat is a good way of avoiding sex with a beta who doesn’t have high enough testosterone to override both his natural aversion to unhealthiness and social programming.

        I didn’t want to believe it because I’m apparently weird and wouldn’t get into or stay in a relationship with a guy I didn’t respect and admire…but many women would and do, for the status, the money, or the opportunity to make children.


      • @Nicole I wasn’t arguing with whiskey. I agree with whiskey. I was arguing with an earlier poster who said this.

        “Women in the real world LOVE, like, date, marry BETA males ALL the fuckin time.

        You know why? Because BETA males are NORMAL. Normal, average, regular guys. Not pimps, gang members, biker felons and other misfits who scare the shit out of you.”

        As you and I know, this is not the full story. They do fall in love, but they fall out of love pretty fast too and start hating their hubbie. And get fat and ugly.


      • Okay, I understand now, and I agree. The hate of the beta husband is something relatively new, and it is worse, in my opinion, then men having “unrealistic standards”.

        The vast majority of men under 50 are horny enough not to demand perfection. Most western women though, want to have their cake and eat it too.

        Even guys I know who fit the stable-enough alpha profile catch hell if a woman’s friends convince her to go to therapy or start dripping poison in her ears. The mental health community today is just a feminist mill that hates all men and tries to break up relationships and feminize men.

        Nothing a man does seems to be good enough anymore. I will say however, that being more alpha and laying down the law about diet and exercise will at least give a guy something good to look at when wifey’s mouth is closed or…occupied. 😉


  90. 34.5 is downright scary. A 33 is a little big on me and I’m 5’11 ~200lbs.


  91. I will throw the feminists a small bone: Porn stars and girls in the 120-135lb range are far more attractive (to me anyway), than the fashion model types who are under 100lbs and over 5’7 and wear a-b cups.


    • Welcome to the good life
      Where we like the girls who ain’t on TV
      ‘Cause they got more ass than the models



  92. on July 1, 2011 at 1:14 pm | Reply

    ◦ lurker
“before anorexia and implants, attractive women naturally had small waists and big titties.”

    ◦ Joe Eoj
    ◦ In fairness, before implants the chances of having a rack like that with a waist like that were one in a million.
    ◦ Thanks to implants, you can see that combination a dozen times over in any strip club in the world. Hooray?

    This is only true for white women; you could always get a black woman built like this.


  93. If the pool of decent women is shrinking then their buying power just keeps going up which in turn means it’s makes it easier to give up or lower your standards.


    • This is very true.

      “Fat recruitment.” The more fattiest that the fatties make, the higher quality the man that the recruiting fatties can find. If you’re the only fatty in town, you get the last omega male. If 80% of the women in town are as fat or fatter than you, then you can get a greater beta.


      • “If 80% of the women in town are as fat or fatter than you, then you can get a greater beta.”

        They can try. I’ll just shop in another town.


      • Not when the “town” is the entire country. 😉


  94. I’d never heard anyone claim Marilyn Monroe was fat, what a laughable idea.


  95. i want to punch any one touting that god damned quote can’t even brin myself to type or copy and past it.



  96. In MM time curvy meant round hips and breasts with a small waist. Now it means lots of fat rolls! Very sad 😦

    That said, men are also disgustingly fat too today! I’m not just talking about beer guts either. Also Americans aren’t the only ones packing on the pounds! I’ve seen way too many fat ugly bloated “men” trying to hook up with beautiful slender women, because they think they are entitled. Blame tv shows like The King of Queens.


    • The reason such “fat” men can hoook up with beautiful, slender women is because of two things – Money and/or Power. For many women, those are aphrodesiacs.


  97. I remember back in the day when I was younger my parents shamed me for disliking fat women. For a while it worked in the sense that I tried to appreciate the chubby girls: I gave up eventually because all that damn conscious effort to ignore their rolls just made more obvious the fact that my boner and I NATURALLY (here’s the key: no evil intended) preferred slender girls.

    Of course, I also have to deal with a bunch of these lies as well. I’m thin and currently working out, so at least girls can’t say I look for something I don’t stand up to. The inherited fatness is BS, as I’ve seen that fat parents make their children fat by making them used to full large dishes of food since infancy (and then they become the most vocal about discrimination to obese people). But above all, I blame the food industry for flooding the supermarkets and the media with all those damn light products and 0 % fat food: most women have fell in that marketing trap, and now “being on a diet” merely consists on changing the regular Corn Flakes for the “slender babe in the pack” Fitness or a eat less routine with zero excercise. If girls knew how possible is to lose weight on a medium term and how much power and attention they can get just by doing so, we could see much of the food industry (especially the grain derived one) going broke. I don’t have high hopes considering how sensibles girls are to merly suggesting they need to lose weight.


  98. I would rather be celibate than bang fat broads.


    • Yep. Part of the process of my ongoing beta recovery is gaining the ability and willingness to reject. My opening criteria – you must be attractive, slender, and have no tats that will show while wearing evening wear. The maddest I’ve ever seen girls is when I tell them this to their face (as part of “no, I won’t go out with you”). You can tell that they’ve very little experience with rejection.

      In principle, this should interest their hotter friends.


  99. Thoughts of the typical woman:


  100. Back at home I am considered slightly overweight but here people tell me how “overly skinny” my figure is. It most definitely is not. Yet, women have a subconscious desire to lower sexual value of their competition. It makes the ones here uncomfortable to learn I am doing the p90x program and stay away from any kind of processed foods (ie. “dieting” by American standards). If only they knew the surprises that awaited them overseas…living in your own bubble of ignorance is easy while residing in this country.


  101. Cannot make this stuff up:
    Kobe sued by his hooker for breach of marriage proposal…


  102. Time for some Al Bundy.


  103. Skinny with T+A>Normal weight with T+A>Normal Weight without exceptional T+A>Skinny with no T or A>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fat anything.


  104. on July 2, 2011 at 3:05 pm Abelard Lindsey

    Young women in the late 70’s and early 80’s were slimmer than most of those today. We really do have an obesity problem in the U.S. I noticed it dramatically between 1991 and 2001. I left the U.S. in 1991 and returned in 2001. I rarely visited the U.S. during that period. Each time I did visit, I noticed people were somewhat fatter than they were the previous time. I noticed this even when I first arrived in LAX, for example.


  105. I suggest male chauvinism as a DHV

    A recent study by the University of Florida reports that men who have sexist attitudes make $8,500 more per year than their pussy-whipped counterparts. That’s enough money to buy 42 decent prostitutes! 60 if you live near UCSD! In terms that even a woman could understand: that’s enough money to have sex almost every week.

    Take that all of you obnoxious, uptight school marms out there with sticks up your asses and imaginary psychology degrees in your hands. The University of Florida just proved that chauvinists like me have no trouble getting our gear greased. If $8,500 can’t get you laid, no amount of “progressive pretending” will. That is because you are on a deserted fucking island with no women around for 500 miles. If one was any closer, she would swim the gap to take a bite out of your cold hard cash.


  106. > If you’re a white guy, seriously consider ditching
    > bitchy white women. Asians from NE Asia have
    > high IQs;

    Yeah, but they are Asians ! Mongoloid eyes and faces, they don’t even look human.


  107. Now you need some of this to clear your mind of all the chub:

    Skip to 1:00 or so 😀


  108. I’m not sure how feminism and fattness go together. Most of the hottest chicks I’ve ever met were feminists. The ones who want men to take care of them have always been the laziest and fattest I’ve known.

    I’d have to say that fattness and lesbianism often go together though. Most of the dykes I’ve known have been quite large and unattractive.


    • I’m guessing the phenomenon fat lesbians who care not one iota for their attractiveness, and the gay guys who go shopping & apply night moisturiser has something to do with R & S values, and the mechanics of the brain when trying to pursue a mate. Gay guys brains know that men are driven mainly by attraction, and tart themselves up accordingly. Dykes know that… actually I have no idea how their brains work and I don’t care. Peace.


  109. on July 2, 2011 at 6:12 pm Throbbing Gristle

    Holy living fuck, comrades, check out the hamster on this skank:


    • She probably genuinely has PTSD. Whether or not the trigger for sharing her violent rape fantasies is because of her high stress job, or her desire to mold her feminist ideals with the submissive nature of her sexual fetish is up for debate.

      She was never actually raped, so a sort of by proxy hysterical episode because of one possibly disingenuous Haitian. Anything could’ve led up to the assault and mutilation of the woman in a post natural disaster environment that was already a third world shithole. It could’ve been self-inflicted, just like that crazy attention seeking women who burned her own face with acid.

      I’m not going to bother chasing down her other articles to see if rape and violence are a common theme of the other devastated areas she’s reported on. It’s something you can take at face value and say, “Yeah she’s telling the truth because that one episode was the trigger for her complete disinterest in normal sex” or “What a hobag, using the pain of some third world peasant to rationalize her hardcore rape fantasies. Fantasies brought to the forefront by the terrible realization of the power men can wield when they aren’t being restrained.”

      Some guys can get obsessed with certain positions, acts, or kinks; so her disinterest in normal sex may be because of her obsession with the sex that most turns her on, or because of the reasons she explains in the story. The vivid retelling of the rough sex if not arousing to her at least probably sent some women over the edge though, hence the peanut gallery of “you’re so strong!” from fat housewives who couldn’t even get their husbands to beat them legitimately they’re so disinterested in them.


  110. Surprisingly Swedish girls are the hottest and generally thin despite the feminist influences in this country.
    I think American feminism is far more destructive to women than Swedish feminism which seems more political and less focused on allowing women to be fat or lazy. I didn’t see any fat chicks walking around in Sweden or any pajamas, women were dressed very well with high heels and were fairly feminine. The only American girl I met there was mediocre looking and her voice was annoying and masculine, I could tell she hated Sweden because of the competition. Needless to say, the only reason I was talking to her was because I wanted her much hotter Swedish friend.

    CH, perhaps you could do a post on the differences between America and Sweden in terms of the impact of feminism.


    • Yes, please. I’d be interested too (into differences between American and Swedish feminism).


    • Well, I think she should’ve a least asked people who actually have women like this in their families before being so dismissive…


  111. The book “Mr. S: My Life with Frank Sinatra” lends a few pages to the topic of Marilyn Monroe. The book, written from the perspective of Sinatra’s long-time black driver/assistant George Jeffries, is an excellent read & insight into the life and times of Mr. S.

    ” …Mr. S had a ton of misgivings about Marilyn. She was a total mess. She was usually drunk, which he could deal with. She was also usually filthy, which he couldn’t. She was frequently too depressed to bathe or wash her hair, she ate in bed and slept among the crumbs and scraps, she would wear the same stained pants for days. She was too miserable to care. Furthermore, she was usually fat, twenty pounds overweight, which she would lose on mad crash diets right before starting a film, like drugging herself into a near coma for a week at a time so she wouldn’t eat…the image was glorious, the reality was squalid.” – Page 153.


  112. Went for a weekend trip with the GF. Every time she left (bathroom, etc), she returned to see me talking with a new chick (tour guide, cashier, etc) I was opening game where ever we went. Art galley, I was talking (teaching) to a chick about her camera. Salon chicks handing out their flyer on the store stoop? Gamed them hard. Eating out of my palm.

    Most guys would shy away from “gaming” with the GF right there. Not a CH reader. She’s never seen this side. She even said “Wow, you sure know how to make new friends” Nope, it’s 100% safe, b/c clearly you’re not “trying” anything with her right next to you. Instead, you’re showing her just how easily she can be replaced.

    She’s never seen this side. She even said “Wow, you sure know how to make new friends”


  113. on July 2, 2011 at 10:54 pm Lionel Manboobs

    My neighbor is a podiatrist. A few years back, he told me about a woman he saw with sore feet. The first thing he told her after the exam was that her shoes were two sizes too small. She became indignant and insisted she had small feet and that the shoes were the right size. WTF?


  114. Weight is a serious weak point for modern feminst women. A fat woman is priveledged. She a rich western woman with great access to food. Thus depriving her 3rd world sistren, and thus is evil.

    On the other hand, 95% of all these same women are fat if not obese.

    This contradiction, plus the fact that being a fasto is ugly as hell, kills them.

    Oh well. Pretend you live in some imaginary European world where they loved hippos.


  115. I’d like to see a post on the ideal body measurements for men. Also the weight of those measurements on dating value. Obviously height is not really manipulable…but belly fat, shoulders, arms, pecs, etc can be changed.


  116. Marilyn Monroe was in her 30s before she first learned to masturbate. Actually, it was a Beverly Hills Psych Doctor who first taught her how to do it.
    First of all, how fucked up is that?
    Second, Those must have the years of the Golden Age for American Medicine. A glory-ous time when Doctors could just do what was right without having to look over ones shoulder at all times.


  117. […] Heartiste – “Diversity + Proximity = War“, “An Old Chateau Concept Confirmed by Science“, “DSK and False Rape Accusations“, “Why Most Libertarians Stupidly Embrace Open Borders“, “Marilyn Monroe Was Skinny” […]


  118. Glengarry

    It’s female-female mind games. You deserve that extra pound of cake, he doesn’t love you and you’re so fabulous you should get a divorce, and all that.

    He he.

    Deliciously twisted.

    “Have another piece of pieeeeeee! Bwaaa haaa haaaaa!”


    • It’s not though. God, you all are ridiculous. It’s not suggested in a sinister -oh-good-now-I-can-make-her-fat-too because-I’m-an-evil-fat-woman way. It’s just one person trying to comfort another. No one is subconsciously thinking that they can make the other fat. There are no “mind games.” Also, this wouldn’t even work for me because I don’t gain weight and don’t view food as a reward and neither do my friends). This is such a one-sided view.


      • Chuckle.


      • I have always been suprised at how women will remain friends with the very people who are so obviously encouraging them to completely fuck up their lives.


      • Not misery loves company, but company loves misery or something like that. Feel better by making your friend whom you secretly envy and dispised for being less fucked-up than you feel worse than you do.


      • So then why is divorce contagious? Sorry, you are wrong.


  119. OT: Do you ever feel sort of in awe when the principles of game prove themselves over and over again?


  120. Moo!


  121. The average waist size for an American woman is 34.5 inches? That’s ridiculous. There are probably a lot of middle-aged hippos jacking that number up, though. I’d like to see what it is for women under 30. I agree with the earlier posters that a larger modern woman who wasn’t starved in childhood by the Great Depression will probably not have a 22-inch waist, but I’m a 31.5 (measured myself, not by jeans size), and if she’s bigger around than I am she’s got a serious problem.


  122. Now I am aware of the game, I’m suprised how many men play it. Before I just thought they were arrogant shits. Now I know there’s method behind the cockiness.

    I stop short of saying ‘nice negging tactic’ in front of them. I act sweet and demure and play along for a bit. I wouldn’t want to be rude or embarass them. I just excuse myself to get another drink/use the bathroom in a polite manner.


    • Are you implying that only natural alphas may penetrate your asshole, and that you can tell the difference?


      • Yep. I have one alpha fuck buddy and he’s enough for me.


      • You do realize that no girls don’t think this? And yet PUAs continue to get laid.


      • It is rare for a woman to be pro game and consciously reward guys for playing, but some of us do. I’ve even complimented a guy and informed him that he could do better than me.

        Unfortunately, his beta instincts got the better of him, and he’s now got oneitis for a nutbar. I should have played crazy myself and shagged the nonsense out of him.

        …but I’m too proud. 😦


  123. on July 3, 2011 at 4:49 pm msexceptiontotherule

    Having to spend time sitting in front of my sewing machine (not to mention the time it takes to carefully take out a garment’s mfg-stitching so as to not create holes in the material, and avoid being stuck with sloppy looking results) every time I buy clothing was turning out to be roughly equal to how long it takes for me to simply make my own with a modified pattern adjusted for the height and ‘atypical’ (the woman at the sewing store’s choice of words, not mine…just for reference she was a taller woman without a discernible waist) b-w-h measurements. I don’t give a f&$K about so-called vanity sizing, the most important feature in clothing for me isn’t a stretchy waist or something designed to be loose and flowy from right under the bustline. The decision made by the majority of clothing manufacturers to depart from the figure style and measurements they used during MM’s days followed by adjustments to accommodate ‘curvy’ women and their egos (I suppose I can’t blame them – the clothing makers – for wanting to make money) has cost me time and money. Of course I’M the one who supposedly has the problem when mentioning the difficulties that I have with clothes, I’m just diametrically opposed to making the changes so I’d be able to wear stuff o.t.r….well except for the length because I’m not likely to get any taller.


    • Congrats for taking matters in your own hands – sounds like a big money-saver too. Too bad I’m def not dextrous enough for that..

      I’d never heard anything about them changing the measurement ratios, though – in the right size, whatever that is, the proportions seem about right to me, if you try on styles flattering to your figure type – wouldn’t average weight/hip ratios stay the same, even if they shifted upwards in size?

      Do have the problem of needing to hem pants sometimes, but can’t blame the manufacturers when they can make a pair of pants that fit me and taller skinnier girls too


    • I’m diametrically opposed to fatties. Good one.


      • Good for you then and thanks for sharing.

        Most people with a very basic grasp of physical laws can understand how clothing fits in this way – I’m 5’5″, 125lb, and wear the same pants size as my friend who is 5’9″ and 125.
        So even people who are not muumuu-wearing “fatties” can be different body sizes and yet share clothing sizes


    • Go vintage.


  124. on July 3, 2011 at 8:40 pm Get Off My Lawn!

    “The decision made by the majority of clothing manufacturers to depart from the figure style and measurements they used during MM’s days followed by adjustments to accommodate ‘curvy’ women and their egos (I suppose I can’t blame them – the clothing makers – for wanting to make money) has cost me time and money.”

    Besides increased weight, by far the biggest change in the last fifty years is the fact that women no longer routinely wear girdles. Girdles and their modern equivalents (“body shapers”) do not take off weight, but they do redistribute it and, most importantly, keep it from bulging unattractively.

    Yes, women today are fatter than they were in MM’s day, but if they wore the same foundation garments that MM’s contemporaries wore, they’d look a hell of a lot better than they do. This problem has been exacerbated by the trend toward comfortable but clingy knits rather than stiffer but more concealing woven fabrics and the general tendency for women to wear much more revealing clothes. Frankly, I wish women in general dressed less like sluts, but I especially wish it when the woman in question is not young and thin.

    Women of my mother’s generation would rather have died, I think, then be seen in public with visible rolls of unrestrained fat under a clingy, too-short top – and that’s true even if they were of average (for the era) weight. What has happened that women now think it’s great to expose their flab – and let it bounce around, too – for all the world to see?


  125. Chateau:

    Monroe was a size 12 dress pattern size, which corresponds to her 34″ bust. See traditional dress sizes here:

    Monroe was a traditional girl from Iowa. She most certainly would have been taught to sew her own dresses in school during the 1940’s. My mom was taught that in the 1960’s. When sewing a dress, one always starts with the bust size, and modifies the waist and hips according to the actual figure by cinching in or spreading the waist and hips. Monroe most certainly was quite aware of her dress size and how dresses were made for it, since most of hers were tailored for her.

    Dress pattern sizes have no relation to Ready To Wear sizes that one sees at a store. Monroe would need a modern size 2 or possibly a tailored size 4 Ready To Wear dress, as she had an exaggerated hourglass figure compared to the average woman. Size 0 is a recent invention of vanity sizing in Ready To Wear that has essentially dropped 6 sizes off the traditional US Catolog sizes to help make fatsos feel better about themselves. A very slim woman 20+ years ago would have been a catalog Size 6 – like Julia Roberts self-declared size in “Pretty Woman”. That would be a Size 0 today. Monroe could not fit a modern ready to wear size zero because her bust was too big. She would need a size 2 or 4, and the waist would need to be taken in to fit her figure.


  126. “The average waist size of American women in 2011?: 34.5 inches.”

    watdafak!!! that’s 5.5 inches bigger than my waist! and i’m a guy!
    american women are FAT!!!



    I think CH will find this useful somehow………



    • What an interesting story! Everyone should read it carefully! I can’t resist commenting on it, even though I’m off topic again (as usual).

      The (girl) journalist was having PTSD after witnessing sexual violence in Haiti. She was emotionally hurt, afraid and was having rape nightmares, so she decided to heal her pain by engaging into violent casual sex to prove herself she can endure it and make the pain go away.

      She didn’t enjoy it, but she could endure it.
      “I did not enjoy it in the way a person getting screwed normally would. But as it became clear that I could endure it, I started to take deeper breaths.”
      “And my mind stayed there, stayed present even when it became painful, …”
      “My body felt devastated but relieved; I’d lost, but survived.”

      It helped her to become numb.
      “A few months after that, I would report from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, where every interview would be about sexual violence or murder, but I would function just fine. I’d see the French peacekeeper again in another country, where his big weight would feel appropriately weighty as I engaged him in absurdly sweet—like, European-earnest—sex.”

      But now she feels she is strong.
      “But at the moment, Isaac pulled my hair away from my wet face, repeating over and over and over something that he probably believed but that I had to relearn. “You are so strong,” he said. “You are so strong. You are so strong.””

      Hope the authors notice this story, it really is worth reading.

      In my opinion it’s really sad that she decided to heal the pain and fear with violent casual sex. At least she should have done it with her boyfriend/husband. But sadly, she continues to have casual sex (with French peacekeeper at the end).


    • Oh, shit, I miss some comments here, but I write mine all the time … I haven’t noticed that you were already discussing this story. Sorry.

      (but my comment disappeared anyway, so I’m sorry just in case it appears somewhere …)


  128. The Casey Anthony trial: Ironclad proof of the R. Maxim – The gina tingle is the strong force driving all female concepts of morality, truth, justice, etc. etc.


  129. Andrew

    MM grew up in LA. Her mom was a show business wannabee. Somewhere in her teens she became aware of her true sexual market value – which was realistically a 12 or 13 on a ten to one scale.
    Why do you imagine we are even discussing her life — 50 plus years after her murder if this were not so


  130. @Schmoe

    as a tax lawyer, i can tell you she won’t win b/c marriage contracts require
    1. consideration in the form of assets given up or forbearance of some sort
    2. marriage contracts need to be in writing under the Statute of Frauds


  131. Anyone want to guess why Tom Hanks and Julia Roberts in “Larry Crowne” has bombed at the box office? I’ll take a stab at it: in the tradition of Forrest Gump, it presents a middle aged man as a harmless fool who ends up being “lucky” enough to win the middle aged woman who accepts his bumbling as cute (while viewers understand that she really doesn’t have much choice left either way). Then again, like everyone else, I didn’t actually see it.


  132. Why the hell did I think she was from Iowa? Now I am confused about something.

    Still, girls were taught to sew back then.


  133. on July 4, 2011 at 1:27 pm colombian guy

    colombian guy here again wiht the whale watching.

    9:00 am: im at a resort and some american guy in broken spanish asks for directions, he looks like g.i joe. i gladly help him

    11:00 we meet again, he is thankful and asks me for nice places to dine, he is hungry and he is just out of the gym. i take him to steak house where i am suposed to meet with my family. all the girls are cheking this guy, all of them colombian hotties all of them naturallyy thin. he tells us, he just quitted the navy and he is on vacation with family (weird, he is alone)

    6:00 pm i see him far form were i am,… local girls want him.

    next day 9:am he is sitting at the resorts restauarant waiting for break fast, besides him there is a 6foot 300 pound thing that seems to be a woman, she calls him “honey”

    9:15 there is also a girl, maybe his daughter , probably 9 …also huge, everyone looks at them as freaks.. i go say hello, and they invite me to sit.
    break fast arrives…mostly fruits. the huge ehale refuses to eat, she says its disgusting….she leaves, in her tight outfit…she can barely walk. our navy muscled guy , realizes whats happening and he looks sad and pissed.

    9:20 whie we chit chat , he asks his daughter to try the break fast, the girl starts crying as if she was pushed to eat dog shit. sad, when its just feijoa(south american delicacy,)with bananas and some light yoghurt made of peaches.

    9:22 the girl is puking,….

    9:50 off to golf….

    11:00 i meet the 2 whales again and the little one asks me…. why all the girls here look as if they have never eaten…?? AND her mom replys.. (they are all anorexic) i dont know what to say… they are all average hot girls who dotn starve themselselves just eat right.

    10:00 pm i meet a chick and we and her friend go to a disco…

    10:15 pm there we meet our american friend… even tough he can get the chik he wants for free, he hires 4 hookers to party hard wiht him…

    his wife does not know it, but the guy now hangs wiht “ANOREXICS”


  134. on July 4, 2011 at 1:28 pm colombian guy

    whats wrong with americans?


  135. My ex-girlfriend when she was 19 = hot, nice waist, big tits…..8.5/10

    Same girl at 38, butt ugly, 200+ lbs., enourmous tits……………0.01/10

    I shyt you not. Saw her on the subway the other day and was traumatised for several hours. Yes folks, I cannot even give her a 1/10 now.

    Sigh. I can’t believe I used to fuck that when I was 21. I almost feel like I’ve been violated, even though she didn’t look remotely like that back then, it’s like a trophy that I was proud of has been taken away from me all these years later.


    • This happened to me in the grocery about two years ago. Didn’t recognize her at first because of all the weight. This fat girl was starring at me with this look of shame/embarrassment/anger and I had no idea why. Then it hit me who she was like a sinking feeling in my stomach. Im still in shape, gym twice a week. She recognized me long before. We passed without speaking. It was like seeing a sickly ghost. It’s almost an indescribable emotion seeing something so repulsive you were once attracted to. We should give it a name. Traumatic whale resurgence syndrome.


    • Seriously, I can’t wait until I hit 40 years old. Then I facebook book the hos and see how they look in middle aged – nasty and fat.

      What’s sad is that you don’t even have to wait that long. I’ve known 18 years old that look fat now that they’re 22 years old.


  136. on July 4, 2011 at 3:06 pm Experienced Father

    Feminist’s — Marilyn Monroe was fat.

    Reality — Well, if you won’t believe your lying eyes, that Marilyn Monroe really was thin — See her dresses.

    Feminists — WhaaaaaahhhH!

    And in other news from Instapundit, Real women like Sugar Daddy’s:


  137. @Get Off my Lawn – “This problem has been exacerbated by the trend toward comfortable but clingy knits rather than stiffer but more concealing woven fabrics and the general tendency for women to wear much more revealing clothes.”

    That’s a good point. Anytime there’s a crowd of people I see so many obese women wearing shorts and sleevless shirts. Basically flaunting the fat. Nasty. Makes you wish for the Mad Men days.


  138. on July 4, 2011 at 3:14 pm msexceptiontotherule

    To clarify…since all my sewing skills are self-taught, meaning that because I was doing a trial and error method, if a project turned out well I was overjoyed and quite proud of my accomplishment. When it didn’t quite end up like it should have, at least I could get a few new cleaning rags out of it when the project looked horrible and if I was off a bit towards the larger end that could be fixed fairly easy – when it was off a bit too small there was a neighbor (before she had a kid) to give it away to since the family didn’t have much money for those kinds of things. It’s a shame that at her age she’s already got a daughter that’s getting close to 2 years old, hopefully the father will continue to stick around but that’s never for certain when dealing with the crap going on because his baby’s mama is all kinds of crazy.

    But back to my sort-of point; clothing for women in stores today typically have a bust measuring 2″ smaller than the hips and the waist is about 5-6″ smaller than the bust measurement. If I shop in the petites section due to height, the clothes usually are too tight around my shoulders, bust, and hips, but then there’s extra fabric bunched around my waist. In the misses dept everything is so long I look like a 3 year old playing dress up in some tall lady’s clothes (I’d have said the clothes were my mother’s but she’s only 5’4 herself). These days my sewing skills have improved significantly in the time since I first started teaching myself how to sew things; I can make a pattern from something bought at places like forever21 that I’ve taken apart, and of course I’ve acquired many sources to get tips from, particularly at the times I’ve been waist deep in a mountain of fabrics because fabric stores with back areas require some work just to browse their “we don’t give a f&k that’s why everything goes anywhere in the back section, you want order not chaos then stay where the fabric is on a bolt” area. By putting in a little time and effort dealing with the situation going on in the back of the store, you can find the same stuff that they’re charging a few dollars more if it’s off of a bolt from the front section. The Armenian ladies only made ‘the face’ until they’d realized that I always put everything back where it was after I’d gone through it and picked out what I wanted to buy.


  139. I need a Advice, please, CH, walawala, Doug, Gorbachev, and the Alphas(Sorry, but i don’t remenber all at this moment).

    I have been very very alpha with a girl, pehaps even exageratted to the point where she always ask me if i want to end our relationship because i’m always hurting(she says it constantly).

    And while i thought i was alpha at the right point i discovered that she was lied to me in my last days.

    She lied to me yesterday saying she was in a ceremony in the morning with his family(mother, Brother…etc) when in fact she was in a party drinking with alpha males(I know) and Sluts(Hard Sluts). In the same day, after the party, we had sex in the night and she send me in the next day a message “I missed you today”.

    In other day, i disappeared and she go out with friends at night. In the day after, she asked me where i had gone the night before and said that:- You do not care for me, i have a good night with my friends(Hard Sluts) and you don’t worry.


    How shoud i deal with this lie ? I thought of creating rapport slowly but not know if is the right time(After her lying). I wonder if the relationship can still be saved after this disrespects or mean the end mandatory.

    How to proceed ?


  140. Off-topic for this, but otherwise…

    “Confessions: 7 Reasons Why Women Cheat,” by Chelsea Kaplan, via Yahoo!

    Reason #1 “no passion”… as in “he was a really nice guy, and I enjoyed being with him, but there wasn’t a ton of passion” justified by “things ended up for the best,” etc.


  141. what a sad sight


  142. A 34.5 inch waist on an average 5’4″ woman is really fat! I know that a lot of American woman let themselves go, but I would never guess that the average waist would be that large. In fact, it is a little difficult to believe unless the sample pool included a lot of black women.


    • For real. So fat. At least black girls can claim to be legitimately sexually appealing to black dudes.


  143. Now this is what I would call a 9:

    But what’s with the American women’s propensity to do black dudes? Just sayin


  144. I have a few lesbian friends and theyre soooo fat! Like super fat. I feel horrible for being so judgmental but its so hard to hang out with really fat girls.

    Had to get that off my chest.


    • The attention-whoring knows no bounds, or shame.


      • Almost like the bad plot of a porno: War correspondent Tory lane needs a dose of big cock therapy from Dr. Lexington Steele to overcome her war zone trauma.


    • My comment about this story disappeared, can’t resist commenting again … This is such a sad story. I hope everyone reads it. It’s so sad that she wanted to become numb. And it really “helped” her – she could continue reporting about sexual violence without being hurt emotionally – and she continued to have casual sex, too 😦


    • Who knew the cure to PTSD was to get powerfucked to hell by your friendly neighborhood alpha male?


    • Oops just saw Ollie’s above.


    • The chick is clearly a nut, I don’t know why everyone cares about her shitty article. If every broad had the ability to reach a wide audience you’d see some really wacky ramblings. Doesn’t mean they mean anything of interest to anyone but the author though.


  145. Crazy bitch uses pussy-pass to beat murder rap:,0,1425780.story

    No doubt she will begin a tireless search for the ‘real killer’ just the same as OJ after his trial…


  146. have you dudes and dudettes seen “last tango in paris”? i’d not seen it until this weekend. it is a pretty powerful movie and is very well-acted by brando (natch), though the main chick is merely ok.

    anyway, basically the whole plot revolves around brando raping this chick no less than 5 million times (including one anal rape scene that makes liberal use of butter) and telling her he doesn’t want to know anything about her, etc. for whatever reason, she keeps coming back. eventually, however, brando professes his love for her and when he does that, she kills him and plots to accuse him of attempting to rape her (though this time, for a rape he didn’t actually commit).

    another important detail is that this chick is engaged to be wed to this really nice dude who is a filmmaker who basically worships her and wants to document how radical she is on film. she basically loathes this nice guy, though she ultimately agrees to marry him.

    the movie is a pretty interesting meditation of various principles that come up around here. but, more interestingly to me was the reaction i got from my gf after we finished watching. now, she’s russian, so maybe she’s just a heartless, cold-hearted bitch, but i doubt it. when we started talking about what we liked and didn’t like about the movie, the VERY FIRST thing she said she didn’t like about the movie was the nice guy fiance. i pressed her on this, pointing out that he seemed to genuinely love her and had dedicated himself entirely to her. isn’t that what girls want, i ask, ever-so-devilishly? she really struggled to come up with even one reason for why she felt the way she did. eventually, she said something to the effect of, “well, i just didn’t like him. he was creepy.”

    mind you, no part of this guy was actually creepy. he was good-looking, full of energy, and utterly devoted this the heroine. however, i can only assume that when compared to the animal power displayed by brando, the good-guy bf just came off looking like a needy doofus. even still, why would my gf dislike him so much? i guess it isn’t too much of a surprise to readers of this blog, but i still found it pretty funny to see her try to rationalize her visceral response.


  147. In the end there is no reason to be cruel. Please just lose the fat so that my eyes no longer suffer such cruelty.


  148. The fat girl virus is spreading to Canada.


    • Canada was already infected back in the mid 1990s. Maybe not America-style, but bad enough.


  149. I’m just going to leave this here:

    Post-Traumatic Stress Cure: Writer Stages Her Own Rape


  150. on July 5, 2011 at 7:37 pm Emma the Emo

    Marilyn Monroe wasn’t fat, judging by her pictures, but I’d never call her “skinny”.


  151. Here’s from a young female adult explaining why she’s fat as fuck, in her own words.

    “Because I have no self control. But it’s not really my fault. I mean, it’s definitely not anyone else’s it’s just…

    You know that feeling when you hold your breath for a long time? Your lungs start to almost spasm as they cry for air and you get a really horrible sensation in your chest. That is the feeling I feel every second I’m awake and not eating. My appetite is so insanely out of control that I doubt any person who says that have will power would be able to ignore it. Seriously, I being to cry I’m in so much pain. It doesn’t go away until I eat and it returns seconds after I stop.

    I have no idea how to stop it.

    As far as exercise, I have exercised induced asthma but have never been able to get an inhaler. Plus everyone, my family included as well as doctors, usually think I’m lying when I talk about health issues. It really sucks when you go to a doctor for help and they tell you you don’t need an inhaler and you’re young enough to deal with it.

    But everyone in my home town is a fucking psychopath.

    I made a pact with myself long ago that if I wasn’t thin by the time I was 25 I’d kill myself. I’d rather not do this but no one is willing to help me and I don’t want to turn into one of those people that has to be taken out of their house by a crane and weighed using an elephant scale. This will guaranteed happen to me too.

    So I don’t know. I feel fucked. Doctors won’t help and everyone else just bitches at me and says ‘just don’t eat.’ Well apparently I am fucked up to the point that just don’t eat isn’t good enough advice.”


    • on July 6, 2011 at 10:57 pm Emma the Emo

      Sounds like food addiction. Possibly depression. She’s right – she has no control over her life whatsoever, and at this point it probably doesn’t even matter whose fault it is, it sounds more serious than what regular fat people deal with. Where did you find this quote?


  152. Men will get a similar cultural adjustment when women agree that a salary of $100,000 is really a salary of $200,000.


  153. on July 6, 2011 at 3:31 pm Reactionary_Konkvistador

    Sinister male privilege discovered in the atheist and sceptics community!

    Extra! Extra read all about it Richard Dawkins denounced and shamed because he thinks men shouldn’t be held responsible for random women’s interpretation of polite invitations to coffee. Dangerous heresy, what might he question next?

    First read about it at this ridiculously Liberally slanted discussion in the following science blog:

    Whatever you may think of him, Richard Dawkins deserves a thumbs up for being the voice of common sense in this debate.

    A polite invitation to coffee is not just “not very bad” compared to some practices that some might call misogynist, but “zero bad” in his words. We’re sorry you find the guy creepy miss but that dosen’t entitle you to expect sympathy for us or any shaming of him. Why should men be shamed for such actions?


    • The woman never said that being propositioned by that guy was “bad” at all, nor did she ask for sympathy in any way.

      Actually, her exact statements were a “word to the wise” about how propositioning her under those circumstances was a dumb move- she was more giving the guy friendly advice than shaming him or expecting sympathy for anything.

      Dawkins’ and your reactions seem more a reflection of your own bitterness at having been shot down by some women you’ve propositioned in the past than her passing reference to some dweeby guy’s awkward attempt to hook up with her at 4 am in a hotel elevator.
      She wasn’t the one to make a big deal out of this encounter – its Dawkins etc. who are exhibiting suspicious sensitivity about the subject by setting up straw-man arguments against a non-issue – very irrational


  154. on July 6, 2011 at 9:26 pm colombian guy

    there is hope


  155. Somewhat off topic:

    I just watched Daniel Tosh’s Happy Thoughts, and his last few jokes were making fun of ugly/fat girls. The last line he said was, “Being an ugly girl is like being a man: you’re gonna have to work.”


  156. Just saw an article on “The Top 10 Fattest States in the US.” 9 out of the 10 were red states. Republicans, look to yourselves.


  157. This blog is the most hateful, vile, bilious fountain of utterly misogynistic bullshit I have ever had the misfortune to stumble across. The sheer bigotry displayed here only further serves to fuel my complete despair for humanity as a species and it makes me ashamed to be called a man. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for encouraging this kind shallow, disgusting behaviour. You are the excrement staining the drawers of society.


    • Nobody’s perfect —> that’s why we talk here and try to find out the truth.
      I’m a girl and can’t have enough of this blog. They told me that this is because of my unfortunate past, but I believe that this is not the real reason.
      I like it because it’s very emotional, yet tries to be scientific. I’m sure you’ll start to like it, too. Welcome 🙂

      PS: We’re not ashamed of ourselves and we’re not encouraging any disgusting behaviour.


      • Sorry, I wanted to say ”we don’t need to and are not going to be ashamed of ourselves …”


    • You’ve made a powerful argument. I’ve changed all my views and erased my years of personal experience. I am reborn.

      Thank you, pink pre-pubescent pony!


    • Dude! You like totally need to get laid! Seriously though, your post reminded me of something Matt Miller of the WaPo, who is also one of Broken Britain’s most nauseating exports, would write. Have a look:

      Funny stuff.


    • So, wait. You’re a dude and your avatar is a pink mermaid or something?


      • Isn’t he cute? 🙂 I’m not joking. Besides, “girly” guys can be alpha, too. I really mean it. Pink is a nice colour for a guy! Don’t hate everything girlish if you want to attract girls!


    • Oh wait guys, its okay. He’s a fictional character


    • Do you take it up the ass?


    • Take a bow, CH. There can be no higher compliment or witness to the effectiveness of your work.

      The end will be noisy. Feminism was but a walking shadow, a poor player that strut and fret its hour upon the stage and soon will be heard no more: it was a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.


    • Lol @ all the people (including ch) falling to this extremely obvious and lame attempt. Check your troll-o-meter, guys.



    • @majere616

      We love you too sweetie.


    • I find fantastic that a blog that calls men “disposable” can be called “misogynistic bullshit”.
      Has human stupitidy a limit?

      [Editor: The brainwashed see what they want to see.]


  158. Majere616 you should go here –> These ball-less whining crybabies sound like your type of guys.


  159. You sully the great Raistlin’s name with your self-debasing, misandric attitude.


    • Raistlin was, among other things, a highly cynical misanthrope who’d certainly sneer at this entire blog AND its useless commentary. Neither was he a stranger to self-doubt or even self-hatred. You yourself, sir, don’t do him much justice if you imply otherwise.


      • Exactly, he wouldn’t be a pussified faggot who bashes his fellow men but enshrines women, he hates humanity as a whole.


  160. Maya, I’m answering your post about attracting the dirty dogs outside the thread because the threads make it difficult for me to find newer posts. Anyway, don’t knock the experience you gained making mistakes, just learn from the mistake. You can’t be accountable for information you don’t have, but once you are aware, you have a duty to yourself to fo the best you can with what you have now. Focus on the future.

    If you are a loving and longsuffering person, you deserve to be loved, but as CH often says, “Deserve’s got nothing to do with it.”

    After a certain age, where it may be possible to find a long term partner, it’s not like when you were young. The dick fairy isn’t going to just drop a guy in your lap. You have to get out there and find one.

    Since your competition is younger girls, you have to have something they don’t, but that doesn’t attract messed up guys looking for an easy target. One thing that works well for me is having hot, younger female friends to whom I’m a kind of a mentor. At first glance, because I don’t look my age, some guys assume I’m the fat girl in the group. Then when whoever is supposed to jump the grenade starts trying to chat me up, I get all matronly and treat him like a kid. I have literally pinched young men on the cheek in clubs.

    You want to avoid the milf or cougar label, but also avoid the bitter old hag label too. If you’re older and single or available due to being in a celibate marriage, how you relate to younger people is really important in how well you’ll attract guys in your target range, which is around 3+ years older than yourself.

    At the same time, you’re being a good role model for younger women. Hopefully they’ll marry or cohabit with someone for life, but if stuff happens and they end up on the market again, seeing a woman who conducted herself with a truly feminine type of dignity will help them to not end up being pathetic.

    …but being a little pathetic is a good thing. When you do meet a decent guy in your age range, too much pride is not your friend. This is where you’ll get to relax and be yourself because with a decent guy, not being able to say no to him isn’t a real problem. He’s responsible enough not to lead you into a mess, and likes the fact that you let him lead.

    So your problem isn’t being soft. It’s in bad selection.


  161. Whiny men complaining about being rejected. You’d almost feel sorry for the posters here if they weren’t so bitter.


  162. Deutsch is right. Trolls ^^^ crawl from under their stones with predictable utterances. It’s like they can’t do anything better but repeat whatever talking points their hive mind supplies.


  163. Thanks for sharing this. I never realized feminists tried to cast Marilyn as a BBW…that should be an obvious lie to anyone who’s actually seen her picture.

    I have heard the line that she’d have to loose weight if she wanted to model today though.

    The interesting thing I noticed from the WebMD article you linked to was that the average woman’s waist size back then was 24″-25″ which puts Marilyn’s dimensions pretty close to the average woman.

    Today, because the population has gotten fatter while models are expected to be rail thin with the body shape of adolescent boys, the gap between “real” women and models is a lot wider than it was back then.

    So when they say that Marilyn was a “real” woman, and that models today aren’t representative of “real” women they are telling the truth in a disingenuous way which is probably one of the reasons it’s easy to believe the lie.

    To be fair though, American men have also gotten fatter – although maybe not is as great of numbers. According to this US News article released in 2005, 39% of men are carrying too much belly fat vs. 60% of women.