The Importance Of Male Style

If you follow the conventional wisdom closely, (or just leave your apartment once in a while), you’ll come under the impression that a good sense of style is more beneficial to women than it is to men. Women are the ones who lacquer themselves in lotions potions liners and rouges, spend exhorbitant amounts of green on fashionable attire, and coif their hair to perfection down to the last flyaway strand.

Men, in contrast, are the ones who throw on a pair of jeans and an ill-fitting button-down.

Now, the CW makes some sense, at least in the big picture. Women, being the sex whose primary attractiveness derives from their looks, would want to focus on maximizing the display of those looks. Men, whose primary attractiveness derives from status and attitude, don’t get as much SMV bang for the buck from ken dolling themselves up. But I’m here to tell you that for some men, particularly ugly men, style can play a huge role in boosting their perceived attractiveness.

Maxim #77: The role of style in diverting attention from male ugliness is severely underplayed by most ugly men.

I was at a party and noticed down at the other end of a long hall a small congregation of girls swirling around one man. I stepped closer to check out the scene, and if any of the girls were ones I knew. I didn’t know anyone, but I did notice the guy, and he was one ugly-ass mofo. Bug eyes, big ears, blotchy skin, beak nose, and horrible teeth, some of which were snaggletooths jutting out at angles like broken glass.

Now I’ve been around long enough that the sight of an ugly man holding court with one or more hot babes is nothing surprising to me. I know a man’s can-bang attitude can compensate for poor facial structure genes. But I also know it can only compensate so much. There has to be something else that distracts girls from the ugliness. And in his case, it was his flashy style.

He was decked out in what looked like Italian shoes, a fitted metallic gray suit, red socks, vest, blood red tie with some sort of iridescent pattern, and big tortoise shell designer sunglasses. He sported a very minor fauxhawk, and was well-tanned. He was a skinny white guy, average height. He smiled like he knew he was the go-to guy at that party. I could have sworn he had a gold cap on one of his miserable teeth.

No homo here, but I have to tell you, the combined sight of the girls swarming around him like he was a maypole (manpole?) plus his impeccable dress played with my powers of observation. The ugliness that assaulted me at first began to dissipate, and suddenly I was looking at a guy who left me with little doubt he knew how to seduce women. Now imagine that perception-warping power quadrupled when used against women, who are after all the sex with the more easily manipulable acumen.

Great style — the kind of style that says you are confident enough to outshine other men and that you have exquisite taste for the finer things in life — is ugliness-reducing. If you are an ugly man, you WILL become less ugly to women if you dress like you’re a leading man. Coupled with game and a totally un-self-conscious attitude, girls will not even notice they are falling for a troll.

NOTE: Does not work for women. Ugly women can maybe… MAYBE… add a quarter point to their rank with good style, but unfortunately for them men are so piercingly attuned to women’s facial features and body that not even the best tailored fashion can alter the trajectory of their target designators. Ugly men have options that ugly women do not.

If you are an average-looking man, the right style will help, but you won’t see as much of a benefit from it as the ugly man. There are diminishing returns to dressing to excess. If you are a good-looking man, you are almost better off *downscaling* your style, so that you don’t intimidate girls into thinking you’re unattainable. Very good-looking men with game who also dress with flash should focus on 9s and 10s, because those will be the only types of girls who won’t give such a man undue grief for making them feel like he is out of their league.

I later learned the ugly guy worked for Prada, and he was wearing one of their suits. I also learned something which only one other person knew at that party: he was bi. Those girls smitten by his style and charm were in for disappointment, unless they like to share.





Comments


  1. I’m mostly in agreement, but there are some things that couple with male style that are important:

    1. Be fit. A fat guy can still land a 9 with great game, but if you’re fit, it opens the door to women initiating randomly because a fit guy is so rare — even in Chicago or NYC. I’ve had a few women compliment me on my physique even though I’m short, I have a pretty glitched face and teeth, and I tend to scowl a lot.

    2. Tailor everything. IF you’re fit, you will never be able to shop for clothes. I can not go into a Target and buy anything because T-shirts that fit my waist don’t fit my chest or shoulders, and forget about dress shirts. I pay my tailor only $10 per shirt to have it taken in, and she does my pants and even T-shirts. Don’t get clothes fit TOO tight because you look like a muscle head — just get them fit for style.

    3. If you’re short, avoid horizontals because you’ll look shorter. Don’t hem the bottom of your pants with a cuff, and look for things with vertical stripes. It makes a difference.

    4. Wear a belt, always.

    5. The clothes don’t make the man, but if you’re wearing clothes that are tailor fit, you WILL feel sexier. If you wear dress shirts that poof all around you, you’ll feel sloppy and that may come out in your actions. This is even true of a simple short sleeve dress shirt and jeans.

    6. If you’ve never bought a pair of bespoked jeans, do so once. Your package will look gigantic, and every women (even nuns) will look. It’s a great IOI, actually, and fuck what the fat men think.

    I don’t let style define me, but it can encourage me.

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    • I need to move. I’m really fit, but live in Denver, one of the fittest cities in the country.

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    • ailor everything. IF you’re fit, you will never be able to shop for clothes. I can not go into a Target and buy anything because T-shirts that fit my waist don’t fit my chest or shoulders, and forget about dress shirts. I pay my tailor only $10 per shirt to have it taken in, and she does my pants and even T-shirts. Don’t get clothes fit TOO tight because you look like a muscle head — just get them fit for style.

      Too true, the difference in wearing a button up that doesn’t billow out around the belly and/or shows off the pecs will affect the mood like night and day, best $10 spent, turns a $50 shirt into $150 shirt.

      The question the host should also deal with are us not-quite muscle head types, white guys who aren’t up to the VK level (and not at 5% body fat either) but still can move iron. I think I have to wear tight t-shirts because otherwise, I feel like a mess.

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      • Hell, go to a freaking thrift store and find some shirts you like for $5 and have THEM tailored. As long as there are no frayed hems, the collars are flat, and there’s no gross dirt on the pits or the neckline, even a broke guy can look good.

        There are only two brands of clothes that fit me off the rack — Emporio Armani (eurosport brand) and Ted Baker UK. The good news about Ted Baker is that Nordstrom Rack always clears out his dress shirts for $30 becaus no one fits in them. So I pick up a $200 dress shirt, new, for $30, and it needs almost nothing done to it.

        Jeans are impossible to find — I’m a size 29 and I hate baggy pants, so I generally buy cut-and-sew jeans with unfinished hems and just have them put together.

        I also refuse to wear zippered jeans — a gal’s gotta fight with buttons if she wants them off of me.

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    • 4. Wear a belt, always.

      Never listen to someone who says always.

      A belt will break the visual line from a man’s top to bottom. You may or may not want this depending on the occasion. In the case of a suit or a tux, where the jacket is cut from the exact same cloth as the trousers, you will lose formality if you wear a belt. If your suit or tux pants fit you at the waist, don’t have belt loops, and have a tab closure where there isn’t an exposed button, that’s as clean and formal as you can get.

      Also, if you’re a fat guy, and I’m talking dunlap syndrome (where your stomach done lap over the waist of your pants), wearing a belt will push your pants down further and give you diaper-butt. Suspenders will be a lot better for you as they’ll keep the waist of your pants closer to your natural waistline. Just make sure, as with ties, your suspenders aren’t clip-ons.

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    • > 4. Wear a belt, always.

      I agree that pants with belt loops and without a belt look sloppy. However, after trying suspenders, I’m never going back to belts. Unless you are wearing jeans – which I never do – with suspenders your trousers will always hang perfectly, and without a belt clipping your figure, you’ll look taller (another trick besides avoiding cuffs). Of course, avoid suspenders with clips. Buttons always!

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  2. Is it possible for a Straight man to look stylish? It’s always gay dudes with great style.

    [Heartiste: Sure is. But like gays, he has to feel comfortable in his swanky threads. Girls can sniff discomfort through lead walls.]

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    • Really, as the description went on, my assessment of our Chaz-Bonorific hero went from alpha student to metrosexual to dabbling gay to queen at her court. Then the clincher: “…worked for Prada…”

      The fact that he manages to maintain his bisexuality is a small triumph for man, the biggest surprise of the anecdote. Maybe he chugs cock as a occupational requirement and tickles pussy on the weekends?

      The trick is to be stylish without being fastidious. Like women and make-up, the signals of effort are off-putting.

      Gays and metros have their wires crossed: their understanding of sexuality is a blur. Their assessments of what constitutes masculinity or femininity must always be held with suspicion.

      Masculinity is what attracts women. When you ask a woman to define her attractions it is either completely inaccurate, or (the more honest answer), “Je ne sais quois.” In step gay men and their metro-mimics with no such womanly indecision to foist an amalgamate sexuality on the definition of attractiveness. We get a pastiche of the male and the female: Strong looking fellows … who depilate like girls. Or hairy round dudes … who mince and lisp like 50-year-old Jewesses. A scrambled-egg sexuality makes for a confused aesthetic.

      The natty demi-queer may have simply been sending out fag-hag signals, which would explain his magnetism more than alpha style would. Gay men are approachable to women because they are … gay.

      Ladies say: “Gay men are the best friends to have! ‘Cuz they don’t want anything from you, you don’t want anything from them, you just hang out, you can be with them and it’s fun and you can talk to them” and all that bullshit.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYNDVaPrTMs#t=3m54s

      Now this might be Chaz’s bait-and-switch game, God bless him. But to emulate it would mean to adopt a bent broadcast signal, which is only partially magnetic to women insofar as alluring-but-intimidating manliness is mixed in with the approachable poofery.

      There is a manly equivalence to female style, but it eschews the high-maintenance vibe that top women and smoldering gays exhibit. Men adopt a devil-may-care look (celebrated here by the occasional Chateau hymn to sloppiness) that does not devolve into geeky self-unawareness. It is every bit as subtle as female style, but with different aims.

      Women are built to be displayed, men to observe. If you make a display of yourself, you are being feminine. If you transmit the aloof casual style of the observer, you indirectly throw out the mating call: “That guy over there has nothing to prove.”

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  3. on October 14, 2011 at 2:10 pm (r)Evoluzione

    Word. This has been an area I’ve been working on for some time now, and I feel strongly it’s payed off.

    Plus, a man who wants to handle this area in his life needn’t spend a lot of green. Thrift stores and vintage joints can be a source of sweet threads, if one has the eye for style. Spending $50 total the other day, I got: a used high end suit (pants need tayloring, but the jacket fits like a glove), a sweet, UK-made wool sweater, 2 pairs of designer jeans, and a well-fitting, like-new designer button-up that matches the suit.

    The difference has been noticeable, and much of it may be found in my own self-confidence in feeling like I look good, stylish, and wearing well-fitting clothes. At a wine-tasting the other night, I finally had the balls to open a large mixed group set. This itself is a win for me, since I was such an introvert for a long time.

    This guy’s website has been very helpful (as has yours, H.)

    http://www.kinowear.com/blog/

    Also, find a good taylor. Almost no off-the-shelf item is going to fit well on you without some tayloring.

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  4. “He was decked out in what looked like Italian shoes, a fitted metallic gray suit, red socks, vest, blood red tie with some sort of iridescent pattern, and big tortoise shell designer sunglasses. He sported a very minor fauxhawk, and was well-tanned.” Here in California we would call this a douche/guido ensemble.

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    • on October 14, 2011 at 2:17 pm (r)Evoluzione

      Makes a good point–there is a regional language of clothing. Here in the intermountain west, a piece of high-end technical outerwear is a major DHV. A nice down vest from a high-end brand, a ski jacket of great quality, or casual boots made by a mountaineering company all provide solid street cred. It’s also a huge bonus when this is just the natural way you’d dress due to your hobbies, etc.

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      • Good point. I’m in Indonesia, and I never see anyone suited up. I find it a struggle to find a style that speaks both casual and high status. I bought a $25 tee shirt the other day that came close.

        I work out but have no need for fitted shirts – there is no obvious triangular shape that needs special accommodation. I’m one of those thin little runts at the gym who somehow manages to handle weights as heavy as the big dudes, and no one knows why. I guess that’s called being wiry.

        So I’d love a style guru to give me tips suitable for my build and location, but in the meantime just shop at department stores and aim to look not too young, nor too old.

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  5. on October 14, 2011 at 2:15 pm (r)Evoluzione

    Also, recommendations on essential qualities in watches as a prop would be appreciated.

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    • I have small wrists, but I always wear the same 3 watches that work well on my physique:

      1. Movado Sapphire Black PVD — no big dials, no crazy logos, not even any numbers. This is my favorite watch. I bought a second one and had the silver hands changed to matte black hands so only I can read the time. It’s a slim face so it fits under my cuffs of dress shirts. Business casual or better.

      2. Bell & Ross Phantom Aviation — this is a bigger watch, matte black, This is definitely more of a sporting watch. I’ll wear it when I’m hunting, or on a boat, or just doing something social in nature in general. Not a good watch for dress shirts, because it’s pretty imposing and I have my cuffs tailored to fit my #1.

      3. Longines Men’s Heritage — this is a silver watch, typically with a light brown leather band. It’s good for when you want to see the time but don’t want anything too flashy. Solid build, looks great, thin so it fits under tailored cuffs, and the band is easy to replace should you need an upgrade.

      I tell younger guys to do the following:

      1. Start saving some money at 16. Aim to saver $20 a week.

      2. At 21, you’ll have saved approximately $5000. Buy one nice, tailored imported suit ($1500), and one nice watch ($2000) and some shirts to go with it. Don’t go too excessive on the suit, get something where the jacket can double as a sport coat with jeans and a casual shirt. $5000 for stuff that CAN last you a lifetime. I have a suit I bought when I was 20 — it still looks fantastic, and it’s conservative cut so it’s never out of style. Since I’m the same size I was at 20, it still fits great, although my shoulders are bigger.

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      • “2. Bell & Ross Phantom Aviation”

        nice.

        “1. Start saving some money at 16. Aim to saver $20 a week.”

        Good advice, but i would quibble on the watch. unless you have money to burn (or a generous gf, heh) i would suggest investing in something other than jewellery. perhaps an ounce of gold, as a good intro to smart investing.

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      • Gold has always been my primary topic of discussion for men — always. I was a proponent of gold since 1996 (the late Harry Browne introduced me), and I’ve always always said to keep 25% of your long term assets in gold (per Browne’s investment guidelines). If a kid earns $20k a year working retail, he can still save around $400 a month in gold (I recommend the 0.5 or 1.0 gram gold bar cards, even at the spot premium).

        Still, a great watch is a watch you CAN pass down to a son — even if it’s “only” a $2000 watch. I have an actual expensive watch, but I never wear it — it’s the size of my head and it’s too garish. Sure, women notice the Movado, but the men I respect notice the Bell & Ross — and I don’t wear watches for the attention, specifically why I prefer slim under the cuff versus a big bulky one.

        I get ALL of my cuffs tailored for my watches (I wear the watch on my right hand so that cuff is wider), and I wear them to actually tell the time. I don’t like using a smart phone for attention or for game — I prefer to toss my phone in my glove box and maybe check it when I bounce between venues. That’s why we wear watches, so we can tell when it’s time to bounce.

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      • That, by the way, is my comment.

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      • lol is your ego that big?

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      • Yes, three lines in I was thinking, “This guy is doing a GREAT A.B. Dada impersonation.”

        I can offer the best negative proof of ABD’s sage counsel on fashion. I live in Miami, but I wear Dickies, t-shirts, and extremely weathered Converse. Have no car, nor watch, and am just barely employed.

        I bang at most two girls per year, and it’s nearly always substandard, if not purely regrettable.

        If banging is what you really care about, buy the watch, tailor the shirts, look as sharp as you can and they will be all over you — because you will like yourself more.

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      • Crikey that’s over-paying for a watch. The Seiko Monster, particularly the Orange Monster, and really any automatic Seiko Diving Watch, and a number of the Swiss Army/Victorinox watches, are big, heavy, classic, and cost under in many cases (well) $500.

        That’s also over-paying for a suit. You can probably get one tailored, for around $800 or so. There’s a tailor advertising in the WSJ, he’ll custom fit you in a number of cities, and most cities of major size have guys who do custom tailoring.

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      • I’m interested in the idea of having a slick suit, but can’t imagine where I’d where it.

        SE Asia is to hot for all those layers, and I know of no venue where I’d go where it would be appropriate.

        Which is why I’m trying to come up with some casual suit substitute plan. Still thinking.

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      • See the –great– seventies film “Saint Jack.”

        Many things dealt with here dealt with there. With one of the most genuinely alpha actors who ever lived.

        And, btw — for hot, sweaty climates like SA nothings beats *linen.*

        Linen, even crumpled, is a matchlessly cool fabric in every sense of the word.

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      • xsplat doesn’t have to see Saint Jack. Because he wrote it. It’s his autobiography.

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  6. When I wear a tailored suit to my social circle night outs…the girls who give IOI’s or outright tell me they enjoy hanging with me after meeting me for a few minutes increases vs if I’m just out wearing decent jeans and cool shirt.,

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  7. If you are a good-looking man, you are almost better off *downscaling* your style, so that you don’t intimidate girls into thinking you’re unattainable.

    Even fat chicks nowadays consider no man unattainable. See for example, today’s guest post at Roosh’s site. Keep the asshole quotient low, and there’s little risk of coming off as unattainable to almost *any* woman, in my experience.

    Strong style is like a screen. It can put off a few chicks at first, but ultimately you’ll bang more quality girls.

    Dada, good list. Especially number 5. I feel a little disgusting wearing my non-trim dress shirts. Re 6, do you just mean designer jeans? Any pointers?

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    • Indi Custom -> Mens Jeans -> Rigid/Raw -> Gun Metal -> Straight (unless you actually wear boots) -> Button -> Coin Pocket (if you use it) -> Standard Pocket -> $155

      It’s a good start.

      It’s hard to find good cut and sew denim. I do prefer Emporio Armani’s cut-to-size, but they’re expensive ($495 to start, I think). I have two pairs of EA jeans I bought 10 years ago when I was fat that I had cut down twice and they still look amazing.

      Try searching for custom denim (cityname) or tailored jeans (cityname) — Yelp typically has good pointers for places that focus on tailored jeans.

      I’m not kidding, you’ll feel like a million bucks and they’ll last longer than Gap’s $50 jeans.

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  8. “There are diminishing returns to dressing to excess. If you are a good-looking man, you are almost better off *downscaling* your style, so that you don’t intimidate girls into thinking you’re unattainable. Very good-looking men with game who also dress with flash should focus on 9s and 10s, because those will be the only types of girls who won’t give such a man undue grief for making them feel like he is out of their league.”

    Goddamn it. I am a very good looking guy with an extremely refined taste in style. I am finishing up college, and I’ve come to realize what I consider my casual style (dark blue jeans, fitted button down with sleeves rolled up, flashy watch, dress shoes) is absolutely intimidating to most girls. I noticed that a lot of girls would give me attitude that I wouldn’t get at a club, and this perplexed me. I now see its because I’m walking around dressed and acting like Tony Stark on a college campus where every other male is an omega or beta (including profs, this is a technical institute).

    In this case, should I tone down my game when opening girls to LJBF mode? As in, give off the vibe that I want to be their friends, and let my body language, vocal tone and eye contact do the attraction? Input appreciated.

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    • i don’t think its the style, but how you rock it.

      to my eye, there’s big hints when you write the following:
      “I am a very good looking guy with an extremely refined taste in style”

      btw, your description does not necessarily match the style you gave as an EG. id say you’re casual prep, there’s no flash or unique style there. watches should not be flashy, unless you’re a rapper, drug distributor or other OC OG, or firebreathing GS exec from texas (tru stry).

      you might be good looking and all that, but if you’re a vain nancy boy girls will be more put off than intimidated.

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    • Are you sure you’re not gay?

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    • Ok but what is your girth?
      – hntr

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    • Dark, you remind me of one of my friends. Tall, good looking, and actually had a contract with Ford Modeling for a little over two years.

      He and I have the same style: nice jeans, fitted button-down, nice shoes, sport coat when it’s cool enough, etc. I’m constantly told how handsome-but-casual I look by the ladies, while he is revered from afar like a God. Most women won’t approach him, and when he goes in, he damn near has to talk to a 10 to get anywhere.

      Fool has no game, which is sad…

      In the end, I hook up with a different 7 or 8 every two or three months (I tend to keep them around – not trying to bang 50 women a week) while he dates 9s and the occasional 10 for 18 to 24 months at a time.

      I’d rather be me.

      I think he needs to tone it down a bit, but the asshole just looks good in anything. Only his baggy workout gear and old t-shirts make him look semi-normal, and he cant really go out in that, now can he? I did notice that he started wearing black shoes only instead of the tasteful-yet-flashier styles he used to wear, and I havent seen him in a sport coat in a few months.

      I don’t know why, and maybe our esteemed host answered it in this article, but 6’s and down seem to hate him for existing, 7s and 8s are extremely intimidated by him and will never approach, and only 9s and 10s are open to his advances – but how many of those do you see in a fat and disgusting America?

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  9. One of the things about dressing with style is that it creates a certain self discipline. People tend to give a little more respect to people with self discipline as they assume they are higher up the feeding chain.

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  10. on October 14, 2011 at 2:49 pm Hung One On You

    Men can start by not wearing freakin pleats…… I work on the hill and you see some ugly ass suits and pleated pants – i don’t get it. And the one comment about cuffing the bottom of your pants….dude is so right. Cuffs are stupid.

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    • Pleats = fat dude.

      My Italian tailor in Chicago (my backup, actually) refuses to pleat pants. He tells me I’m too fat, and I’m a size 29 waist. Love that bastard.

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      • @Dada, my tailor is Shanghai trained, does all the finishing by hand.

        The key to a tailored suit is the way the lapels fit, should be flat,appear tight.

        Interesting because Hong Kong is full of tailors including the chain Ascot Chang which is in the US.

        But my tailor had to tailor my Ascot Chang bespoke suit to taper it so it didn’t look so…in the words of one of my female friends “so 80’s”

        I”m slim so I always wear double-breasted, tapered with the shoulders straight and the lapels flat.

        It fits like a Marine honour guard uniform.

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    • Pleats are fine. “Pants today are like a little church in the valley — no ballroom” — Roger Stone

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  11. I agree. Game is not limited to charisma, confidence or conversational skill and whatnot. Part of game is your lifestyle, your fashion sense, your purpose in life, your hobbies and sometimes even your career (if you’re a Marine, rock star or athlete, etc). I once sarged with some guy a long time ago when I first got into the whole PUA stuff, and his game was tight, but my very much mediocre game was far more effective because I have a great fashion sense and a much more attractive lifestyle. This other guy could talk his way out of murder, but it didn’t really matter in his dirty winter coat, 90’s era ball cap, ill fitting Wal Mart jeans and a poofy sweater. He blamed his failings on his foreign accent, when it was clearly his style. Presentation, presentation, presentation! While we always have things we need to especially work on, we have to focus on the entire package, and not expect one aspect to be the end-all-be-all magic bullet.

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  12. My mom says I have great style.

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  13. Attitude is style. Maybe what you really mean to say is a good attire breeds confidence but that shouldn’t say clothing is what makes the man. I’m a jeans and t-shirt guy and actually use it as a way to screen. I think women that notice a man for the way he carries himself is more important that what carries him. And women that notice me when dressed down are actually more down to Earth.

    I can also where a nice fitted suit and have a few of them in the closet. But jeans and a t-shirts are what I’m most comfortable in. Regardless I am who I am and the older I get, the less I’m willing to conform to women in order to get them to like me. Either they like or don’t.

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  14. Cue Manboobz thumping away at his pud on description of this ‘bi-sexual’ dude. Speaking of which, I still maintain there’s no such thing as a ‘bi-sexual’ man. If you suck cock – you’re gay.

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  15. When attempting to be stylish, a guy has to be careful that they don’t cross a line. If it appears that a guy is trying hard to have style or be flashy, then I wonder, “What are they lacking that they have to make up for it by attracting attention through their clothing, designer sunglasses, fancy car (etc.)?” Some style is OK, but if the style appears to have been obviously meticulously thought out, then it is unattractive.

    I don’t think it was so much the Prada guy’s “material” style that attracted the ladies. 80% of it was probably the strong, confident vibe he was giving off (“intangible” style); or, when one girl started talking to him, then another became intrigued that one girl was talking to him, and so on. However, he still needed to attract at least that initial girl. A strong vibe from an ugly guy is very intriguing. It makes me ask the opposite question: “What is it that this ugly guy has that allows him to be so confident when he is so damn ugly?” He must have something going for him.

    My favorite look of all time on a guy is a slim-fitting white t paired with decent blue jeans. Simple, yet flattering and very masculine. Kind of cowboy-esque.

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    • Well, when I said “intangible style” I suppose this is simply referencing the alpha vide.

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    • ““What are they lacking that they have to make up for it by attracting attention through their clothing, designer sunglasses, fancy car (etc.)?” Some style is OK, but if the style appears to have been obviously meticulously thought out, then it is unattractive.”

      Translating from girl-speak: Do not dress too flashy, it makes us worried that you’ll be aiming higher and run off with another.

      Men – never stop bettering yourself. You’ll hear it a lot from the girls – “I don’t like my men muscley”, “I like you the way you are”, etc. Make sure you ignore. This comes from their fear that a better man will want a better woman.

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      • You’ll hear it a lot from the girls – “I don’t like my men muscley”, “I like you the way you are”, etc. Make sure you ignore. This comes from their fear that a better man will want a better woman.

        My girl used to giggle nervously when I took my shirt off, and compliment my muscles. As out time together has made her feel more monogamously attached, she tries to get me to stop working out.

        Of course it’s not because she doesn’t like muscles. It’s because she’s aware other girls do.

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  16. This goes well with my blog post about buying quality, good looking clothing. The guy who taught me this lesson looked like the Penguin from the Batman movie. Yet, he always wore stylish clothing. When he passed away, he had several women at his funeral, and none knew of the others until that moment.

    He gave me some of his garments. Mostly coats. One coat in particular, a leather jacket has caused more women to open me than I can count.

    It is banana yellow and black. The top half black, the bottom half yellow. The separation of the two colors is zigzag. Guys comment it reminds them of Charlie Brown, but women comment it looks native American. He bought it in Manhattan for between $1500 – 2500.

    Like


    • I just bought my winter coat, and it’s literally something out of Mystery’s peacock wardrobe I think. It’s a huge (think Costanza’s Gore-Tex) jacket in gold, down-filled. It’s a one-of-a-kind piece from a fashion show in Europe last winter, and I picked it up for “cheap”. I can’t wait to rock the bastard, but only because it is so garish (which isn’t me, typically) and Chicago winters suck. The original sticker on it was over $4500, but I bought it because it was tailored to the model and no one else fit in it in over 14 months of them trying to sell it, ha. ABN: Always Be Negotiating, and then negotiate more.

      Like


      • Lol taking a page out of Mystery’s play book can be fun.

        But $4500 is friggin ridiculous bro!

        Guessing from what you wrote,the price was reduced?

        Like


      • They offered a 66% haircut, I ended up with more than 90% off but I also picked up 3 shirts, socks, boxers at retail.

        Trust me, I would’ve spent their asking discount price. I’ve been searching for a winter coat for 3 seasons, tried on a gross count of coats, and this one just fit perfectly. Plus, every employee at the boutique and customer came to gawk at the fit.

        Like


  17. and compare this maxim to what we know of Roosh…doesn’t he always rock simple jeans and T-shirt?

    Like


  18. “There are diminishing returns to dressing to excess. If you are a good-looking man, you are almost better off *downscaling* your style, so that you don’t intimidate girls into thinking you’re unattainable. ”

    so true.

    i once went to a work party at a bar and i wore a fitted & stylish (french cuff w knot cufflinks) dress shirt w a hideous lambo orange Jaegermeister tie loose @ the neck. it had a rather noticeable mounted deer head on it. 100% polyester, made in china, naturally.

    i wasn’t wearing it for the birds, but it helped up my average significantly. it also attracted a slutty pest or two, but that in itself is a good ice breaker when chatting up the gorgeous beer bucket girl (“now i know how hard ur job is”).

    Like


  19. Like many deluded betas, I used to think that a sense of style is a sign of shallowness and lack of character. lol.
    Therefore i grew up clueless about fashion. And learning how to dress properly was a pain in the ass. I recommend Brad P’s “fashion bible”. It helps a little bit, but one still gotta go shopping, and i hate shopping.

    Like


  20. I look at lack of style as a luxury that only men who are unusually good looking can afford.

    Like


  21. CH:
    You’ve discussed the importance of style on this blog before, and while I agree both with your emphasis on the significance of male image and the specific tastes which your provide, there is something missing from this conversation. The greatest source of a man’s attraction to a woman are his eyes. The way he looks not only at her, but the way he looks at other individuals, and at the world. Killers, or those inmates that are not mentally insane, are often noted for a certain element in their gaze that sends shivers though anyone who makes eye contact. Women respond hysterically to this kind of gaze; the gina tingles immediately. The ‘Killer’s eyes are characterized by a steadiness of vision—their eyes don’t move often, and are laser-like in precision. The gaze conveys a fundamental fearlessness, with a touch of ‘back the fuck off’to anyon who dares to tread without caution. This, above all, is the essence of a man’s image. A man can have all the style in the world, but his beta gaze will give him up in a matter of seconds.

    Like


  22. on October 14, 2011 at 5:25 pm Proud-to-be-an-Omega-Male

    I guess it depends on this one… Like I said, I’m ripped, and my body is over 90% rock hard muscle, which means that I’m probably less than 5% body fat. I’m a bodybuilder and could probably compete on stage as a pro for some muscle mag if I wanted. I also don’t wear too much, just a lot of wifebeaters, because my muscles are so huge and I like advertising how perfect I am physically. Yet I’m Omega with a capital O; when most bitches see me, they get intimidated and run, cuz I’m so ripped and huge. I even get attacked and sworn at by giant fat bitches for doing nothing. I always get hit on by guys though, so I guess I’m doing something right.

    Like


    • If you’re serious and not trolling there’s a simple answer: stop wearing wifebeaters. It’s tryhard.

      You’re dressing with all the sophistication of a prostitute in skeevy lingerie.

      An undershirt is like saying “This is all I’ve got. Come and get it!” Whereas, a fitted shirt on a muscular guy actually emphasizes his physique while muting his garishness and availability.

      Seduction is based on the principle of strategically hiding your assets in such a way that they can be discovered by your target in a manner ingratiating to your target. Think of AB Dada and his beautiful timepieces tucked neatly behind tailored sleeves.

      My friend who owns a chain of health clubs tells girls he’s a trainer or that he works “in fitness.” That’s one reason why a famous actress showed up at his flagship and chased him for months before she married some even wealthier guy.

      Also, if you’re 20 years old, just ignore everything I said for another five years or so. Frat parties are no place to stand out like a sophisticated sore thumb.

      Like


    • u do know that roided up guys with extremely low bf% are considered unattractive by most women, right?

      Like


  23. “I also learned something which only one other person knew at that party: he was bi. Those girls smitten by his style and charm were in for disappointment, unless they like to share.”

    Huh? Bisexuals do like women. You’re confusing bisexual with homosexual, I think….

    Like


  24. My two cents.

    Being 5’4, I’m at a disadvantage in classical terms of male looks. I’m not stupid enough to wallow in misery though. So, what do I do:

    – Very physically fit – 30 pullups, 300lb deadlifts, running 3.5 miles three times a week.
    – Tailored clothes
    – a no-nonsense attitude
    – being able to laugh at the world and funny things I do myself

    hindsight 20/20 being a Marine taught me all of this. But, for any guy looking to improve his looks, fit is everything. Get tailored, get in shape, be your own advocate for life improvement.

    Like


  25. Yes be very fit. Tailored clothes help. Basically if you have style you are at a great advantage over shorts-wearing, casual slobs. A suit, no tie, is a great look. Particularly in urban areas, you get almost constant blend-in but looking good style. That is to say, you can blend with businessmen and women, don’t look like a schmoe, yet among casual after hours look like a guy with authority, without being too stuffy [lose the tie.]

    Shoes deserve some careful consideration. Make sure you have properly shined, cared for shoes. In winter however, leather soles plus rain/snow don’t mix. You can’t style flat on your ass.

    Like


  26. Another point about style…when my inner game is down, or I’ve been flaked on or whatever and get out of the funk, first thing I now do is suit up and go out.

    That cool suit becomes my cool persona. I don’t have to be cocky funny I can just go out and chill out.

    It’s the same as a super hero putting on a costume and becoming that new person with super-human powers.

    Like


  27. There is a very important maxim in men’s fashion: the more someone weighs, the more expensive the suits they need to wear.

    Like


  28. http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/13/living/mothers-salary-wendy-luhabe/

    Save the world, pay women to stay home and take care of the kids.

    Like


  29. “I later learned the ugly guy worked for Prada, and he was wearing one of their suits. I also learned something which only one other person knew at that party: he was bi. Those girls smitten by his style and charm were in for disappointment, unless they like to share.”

    For a male audience, the equivalent of this would be a guy that works for Apple, BMW or The Playboy Mansion and could potentially throw some freebies or sweet deals your way if you sucked up hard and long enough.

    [Heartiste: Funny, but the girls didn’t know he worked for Prada. I had inside info.]

    Like


  30. NOTE: Does not work for women. Ugly women can maybe… MAYBE… add a quarter point to their rank with good style

    Oh I don’t know Heartiste… I tend to expend considerable effort undressing women with my eyes, imagining what they’re like without their makeup and their sexy attire, maybe even giving them a silly haircut. I’ve come to the conclusion that, provided they meet basic standards of health, skin clarity, nutrition and height (I like ’em tall), they all look pretty much the same without their clothes on. Ever notice how some women with stupid, trendy, school-boy haircuts can look hot as hell after some months of letting their hair grow? So I beg to differ… women absolutely depend on their scaffolding to make them look good. A woman without said scaffolding, with a silly, unsexy haircut, in comparison to a man with only status, posture and BL to rely on, is about as drab as a female peacock in comparison to the male peacock. I think that a woman’s reliance on fashion and cosmetics can be so comprehensive, so much a part of her identity and her lifestyle, that even seasoned PUAs seem to be suckered by it. “Style” for women can be the difference between a 5 and a 10… or maybe a 1 and a 5 for the least gifted.

    [Heartiste: No way. I have rarely seen or met a girl who bumped herself up higher than 1 point on the looks scale with clothes or makeup. These female illusionists do exist, but not more than 5% of the population. And anyhow, what good is it to fool a “PUA” if he’s only going to see her true unmade-up self a few hours later the next morning? Unlike men who engage in out and out lying to get laid, the window for women to fool men is not open for long.]

    Here’s a tip that a buddy of mine (married to a woman most would categorize as a 15) proffered when we were sitting outside having a coffee… the best women are the ones who haven’t discovered how hot they are. They dress unspectacularly, but in the genes department, they stack up. Use your imagination… dress them up with your eyes, realize that they can look as good as any dimwitted hotty with the looks but no brains. As my buddy says, train them well, and you will become the envy of all men.

    Like


  31. I’m probably a little older than most of the commenters here, so here’s some hard-earned advice:

    Don’t confuse looking sharp with being fashionable. Clothing makers have been trying for decades to sucker men onto the “this year’s style” treadmill like women. Ignore it. Buy classics: cotton button-down shirts with collars, wool suits, tweed or corduroy sport coats, leather shoes. Don’t dress like a celebrity.

    Learn the (quite simple) rules about what to wear on what occasion, and follow them. You’ll be confident, knowing you’re properly dressed, and you can start laughing inside at the douchebags who are getting it wrong. Women will wonder why you’re amused . . .

    And don’t worry about being “overdressed.” When everyone else is wearing team jerseys and cargo shorts, the guy in a sport coat looks like the adult in a crowd of junior high school boys. Save sports gear for when you’re actually playing a sport (and if you don’t play a sport, wearing sports gear is no different from Trekkies dressing up as Klingons). Save the hiking gear for when you’re hiking. STOP DRESSING UP IN COSTUMES LIKE A FUCKING FOUR-YEAR-OLD AND DRESS LIKE A FUCKING ADULT.

    Like


  32. There are certainly things that can help improve a woman’s looks, but style definitely ain’t it.

    Like


  33. on October 15, 2011 at 1:28 pm NonmysteriousStranger

    The point of ugliness is that you don’t look good no matter what you do. I’ve wasted so much time and money trying out different clothes you wouldn’t believe. I’ve asked numerous people for advice and they all eventually gave up and said that nothing looks good on me.
    As I see it, there are no right styles for truly ugly people, only wrong styles for attractive people.

    Like


    • Self limiting and defeating. With that attitude you may as well declare yourself a pussy and bend over to be fucked by the world.

      ANY man looks fantastique in a tailored suit. Or clothes that are well fitted with colours that compliment his complexion. As roissy’s post shows, it will remove an ugly face from the equation. Admittedly bespoke costs a great deal. However, anyone, with an hour of searching or a trip to the bookshop, can figure out how to measure for his correct shirt/trouser size and find his colour palate. The only problem is if you are fat. Good clothes will take eyes from your face. Good clothes will not take eyes from the love handles billowing over your trousers.

      Like


      • on October 16, 2011 at 5:00 am NonmysteriousStranger

        I have a boyish face and curly hair. I look silly in a suit. Any suit, even a tailored one. And before anyone says “But you haven’t tried”, yes, I fucking have.

        Like


    • Your inner game is weak my friend.

      Like


      • on October 15, 2011 at 10:36 pm NonmysteriousStranger

        My inner game is okay – I know what my standards for awesomeness are and I know I’m a pretty awesome individual. Apart from sexual and social success, I have my life in order – I’m reasonably fit, have a job that I love, own a home and generally feel pretty good waking up every morning. It’s only when I meet a woman I’m attracted to that I get really frustrated because whenever I try to approach women as something more than a polite acquaintance (not even a friend, dammit, I’m not even allowed that) they just won’t give me the time of day. And yes, many times they stated my looks as the primary reason. One even told me that I’m an awesome guy all-around and its’ easy to like me, but it’s not possible to fall in love with me because I’m just too ugly.

        Like


      • Have you considered a venue change? Another country?

        Like


      • Re-read your post from an objective eye. It certainly is not okay.

        Like


      • Come on, you can’t be that ugly.

        (Seeing your picture)

        Sweet baby jesus! Dude, this is disgusting. Can someone provide tips about balaclava game or something?

        Like


      • Seriously though, you might wanna read this:

        https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/09/20/day-bang-review-plus-day-game-thoughts/#comment-274886

        And you might wanna learn how to properly seduce women. Even your outer game sounds weak.

        Like


      • on October 16, 2011 at 12:53 pm NonmysteriousStranger

        I’ve read my share of game websites and books but found none of the advice implementable. I’m not shy when approaching women (a rejection is frustrating but it’s not the end of the world) – they just shoot me down the very moment I do or say anything suspect. Literally. Most often they just start ignoring and avoiding me. Sometimes they straight up tell me to fuck off.

        [Heartiste: If’ you’re extraordinarily ugly, you’re going to have a tougher time getting a girl to listen to your pitch than an average looking man would. My advice is to practice on 3s and 4s to get the hang of spitting game, and then catapult right past the 5s 6s and 7s and try it out on 8s and 9s. There is a nontrivial number of hot chicks who jones for ugly men.
        Also, I would need to see you approach. I suspect it’s not so much your ugliness as your body language and voice tone that is hurting you.]

        Like


  34. I don’t know how long I have been writing about this.

    “Very good-looking men with game who also dress with flash should focus on 9s and 10s, because those will be the only types of girls who won’t give such a man undue grief for making them feel like he is out of their league.”

    Bingo.

    And that is how it’s done.

    – MPM

    Like


  35. Style is very important for men. In terms of Game, it is a force multiplier.

    Personal presentation experts talk about the “eight second rule”. People make up their mind whether they want to engage with you in the first eight seconds. At that point you may not even have had time to open your mouth. So appearance, body language and intention are all very important – Game understands this instinctively. Style and appearance is one of the easiest things to work on.

    The commenter who talked about fitted clothing had it right. Studies show that women are subconsciously impressed by men in fitted clothing. Men in tailored suits, shirts, clothes, are perceived by women as more attractive, more prosperous and more interesting. Part of this is the eye-brain interaction, that fitted clothing flatters the body and the brain (both men and women) sub-consciously picks up on that. Part of it is that women grow up with a huge consciousness around clothes and appearance that men do not have. When a man dresses well, it triggers appreciative emotions in women.

    I have two sets of suits, high quality off-the-peg (Zegna, Canali, Corneliani, Gieves and Hawkes) and bespoke (Kilgour of Savile Row, a tailor in Turin, a tailor in Bond Street, London). I always get more approaches from women, when I wear the bespoke tailored suits.

    Shoes are key. Women always look at a man’s shoes. Good shoes well-kept, (clean) say that a man has style and substance. There are lots of good brands (Church, Ferragamo, Ralph Lauren) who do good shoes, without them being stuffy. You can dress them up and dress them down. Dirty, busted shoes send women a subconscious message saying poor personal hygiene, possible bad sexual manners. It is not fair but it is a fact. If a woman thinks you have bad hygiene the first thing that she feels is vulnerable, that you might put your dirty hands/penis on her intimate places. Vulnerable and fearful is not what you want.

    Do not get me wrong here. I now understand Game enough to know that presenting yourself to women as wealthy is death. However, what we are talking g about here is attracting them, good clothes are an enabler, they signal to women. How you work the approach is yours to decide.

    I am a regular visitor here under the name John Dark (have posted recently) and have learnt a great deal from the Chateau and have decided to post under my web name. I am so very grateful for what I have learnt here. I have a website where I and a couple of other guys write about men’s clothes, style and grooming. We have history and experience in this field and are very willing to share it. The website is at http://www.whatmakesaman.net. We will shortly be publishing two articles on clothing style do’s and don’t’s for men, when around women.

    Finally, I was at a champagne reception and I was trying to game a beautiful Chinese woman, who was in a group of three women (Chinese women are so very difficult to game!). I was well dressed as always. The four of us were getting on well. At one point I realised that one of the friends was watching my hands. Shortly after, she reached out, slid back my jacket sleeve, held and looked closely at my cufflinks. She smiled at me, batted her eyes, giggled and then looked down submissively. Complete surrender.

    The point here is that the cufflinks were cut silver and strikingly original and yet only cost me $30.00. I got them from an obscure but talented jeweller, for not much money. The way to do this is learn your style (consultants can do this for you for very little money) and dress with individual style. Do not wear what the other guy is wearing. Find original clothes that suit you (it’s easy) and stand out.

    Many thanks.

    Like


  36. G Manifesto/Alex – If a chic reschedules, you plan to meet her at the same place?

    Like


  37. http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/game/chateau-bullshit/

    Jesus Christ. You would think that this guy would get it, but no, apparently, the whole point of game went wayyy over his head. I appreciate all the work that Elam has done, but seeing this out of him just makes me depressed.

    The difference between the MRM world and the PUA world is like the difference between Science and Engineering. One has the underlying theory and the other is the useful real-world application of that theory. Please understand that without science, engineering gets no results,
    while,
    without engineering, science gets no respect.

    Elam, if you’re reading this, you need go back and take a closer look at what Game is really all about. God knows you’ve got better things to do than go off on PUA’s, whom, by the way have been handing out a whole lot more red pills than MRM at large.

    Alexa doesn’t lie.
    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/avoiceformen.com#

    For God’s sake man, point those rhetorical cannons back at the front!

    Like


    • He does have a point, though: Getting too wrapped-up in the PUA culture is damaging and not very different from being a pussy beggar. The way I see it, Game is a tool and not a cult.

      Like