Yet More Proof That A Few Men Are Getting Most Of The Action

Vox Day writes:

It’s not an 80/20 rule, it’s a 90/10 rule.

“Percent of all women 15-44 years of age who have had three or more male partners in the last 12 months, 2002: 6.8%

Percent of all men 15-44 years of age who have had three or more female partners in the last 12 months, 2002: 10.4%”

Sexual Behavior and Selected Health Measures: Men and Women 15–44 Years of Age, United States, 2002, CDC

That’s the CDC, folks. Hard data providing evidence for the reality of female hypergamy.

Here are some more related soul-ripping statistics:

“Median number of female sexual partners in lifetime, for men 25-44 years of age, 2002: 6.7
Percent of men 25-44 years of age who have had 15 or more female sexual partners, 2002: 29.2%

Median number of male sexual partners in lifetime, for women 25-44 years of age, 2002: 3.8
Percent of women 25-44 years of age who have had 15 or more male sexual partners, 2002: 11.4%

NOTE: Includes partners with whom respondent had any type of sexual contact (anal, oral, or vaginal intercourse)

That footnote is important. The Chateau has argued before that social survey data like the GSS are compromised by the fact that modern women are more likely than generations past to preclude mouth, hand and ass love from the definition of sexual partner. Le Hamster Version Deux, he is working overtime, non?





Comments


  1. I like this stat, it sums it all up neatly.

    I always thought, with observation, that about 30% of the men were getting almost all of the poon.

    “Median number of female sexual partners in lifetime, for men 25-44 years of age, 2002: 6.7
    Percent of men 25-44 years of age who have had 15 or more female sexual partners, 2002: 29.2%

    Like


  2. foist!

    Like


  3. on August 4, 2010 at 1:13 pm The Rational Male

    Still doesn’t account for the fact that a woman’s value is directly tied to her sexual past which gives them:

    A) A perfectly natural reason to lie about their “number”

    and

    B) The ability to believe their own lies which makes them all the better able to disguise the truth, even on an “anonymous” survey

    Women as a whole will never, EVER tell the truth about their sexual past, I don’t care how well assured they are that it will not negatively impact them.

    Like


  4. You should probably dumb this down for your female readers, as they can barely add and subtract.

    “But how can a male have more partners than a female? It doesn’t make sense”, they’ll say.

    Like


  5. on August 4, 2010 at 1:25 pm greatbooksformen

    lozlzzozllzzozlzl

    i gots so mucha pussyo dat i have lzozozozzozzozozolzozo

    nows i’drather get a good nights sleep lzozozlz

    one thing you learn as you get more and more piussy is dat there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch

    espeically wi8th today’s womenz!!!!!

    after you learn about it some

    and see how even teh most innocent

    have lotsa baggae from lotsa cocka ro even lot lotsa cocka but just baggage baggae baggeage

    and you have to hear it feel it taste it otuch it

    hear them sya stoooopid thionsg like :wuere are akkl the good men?”

    and you knwo that you’ll never be able to tell them nor treally connect with them beyond your cock in tehir gina going in and out lzozlzozlzl

    and you kinda get bored

    and it seems like its a greater risk putting your cock in der

    it could catch something

    her boyfirend could coum home who is paying for her place and get pissed

    she could say stooopid tyhings after sex and not let you sleep lzozlzozozo

    you miss all dis sleep sll the good sleep all to bang a skanyky snkanikikifed paranoid man hationg dfederal-resever bernakified desouled chcika lzozlzlozlzllz

    so you get pickier and pickier and pickeier lzozlzlzol

    unitl you relaize that lie 99% of dem have been assocked in secrteibve tapings fo butthex fundeded promotoed by the nocnes mags rags and publsihging house lzozzllz

    lzozozlzozlzzozllz

    i think dat girls who have been assocked need to wear t-shrits that say “i have been assocked and secretilt taped in a neoncon asscoking sessions” to help GBFM out because then i can just go on to the next chcik who iwlll have less assocking bernanke abagggeage.. lzlozlzloz

    Like


  6. on August 4, 2010 at 1:26 pm J (second one)

    Editor

    It’s not an 80/20 rule, it’s a 90/10 rule.

    “Percent of all women 15-44 years of age who have had three or more male partners in the last 12 months, 2002: 6.8%

    Percent of all men 15-44 years of age who have had three or more female partners in the last 12 months, 2002: 10.4%”

    Dude, how do you get 90/10?

    7 gals out of 100 had 3 or more boners

    10 dudes out of 100 had 3 or more partners.

    I don’t see where you get your math to get the 90 10 rule.

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  7. Here is all the proof that a few men are getting most of the action I need:

    In my mid-twenties, after I got out of the Army, I finished my senior year of college at a huge party school. I had a live-in girlfriend but was looking for something new. Did not mix much in the college scene at that point, except for casual friendship with a few somewhat younger classmates. My social life was excellent, but was not tied to the university.

    Anyway, I made good buddies with a really cool guy in one of my classes who was in one of the better frats. Better, as in, they were banging all the hot sorority girls. I once made an off-hand remark about how there is so few decent looking girls at this school.

    He looked incredulously and said, “dude, what are you talking about? there’s gotta be somethign like three hot girls for every guy on this campus!”

    Like


  8. on August 4, 2010 at 1:30 pm J (second one)

    More from the CDC.

    This means women are truly fucked in the head.

    Nonvoluntary sexual intercourse

    Of females 18-24 years of age in 2006-2008 who have had sex before age 20, percent whose first intercourse was not voluntary: 7.1%
    (Based on the question: “Would you say then that this first vaginal intercourse was voluntary or not voluntary, that is, did you choose to have sex of your own free will or not?

    These females are more or less saying that they were raped. That’s 7 out of 100 females.

    That’s just fucking bullshit. They’re fucking lying delusional fuckheads.

    Like


  9. that median lifetime number is so low. unless the guys have multi-year relationships it’s a miserable existence.

    Like


  10. on August 4, 2010 at 1:34 pm Vincent Ignatius

    Women as a whole will never, EVER tell the truth about their sexual past, I don’t care how well assured they are that it will not negatively impact them.

    Those deluded creatures probably believe most of the lies they tell. The rationalization hamster is half the female brain.

    As more research reveals the truth behind what gamesmen have been saying all along, expect the rationalization hamsters to hit overdrive. But girls will still believe their own lies. Chicks wouldn’t know truth if it was squirting right at the back of their throats.

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  11. The no sex stats are:

    Women: 8%

    Men: 10%

    So even horrific loser chicks are out-banging their males

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  12. on August 4, 2010 at 1:38 pm J (second one)

    Fox

    I wouldn’t say that was a standout stat though. In fact I’m a little shocked it’s so close.

    Like


  13. @ el chief
    I obviously can’t speak for the other female readers, but I didn’t need this post to tell me that, like most fairly socially-aware people, it was pretty obvious by age 17 that some guys got most of the attention from the females.. it’s not exactly rocket science 🙂 I’d probably known younger if I hadn’t gone to an all girls boarding school so didn’t really know enough boys before then.

    Ah, I can still remember the 5 wanted boys out of the 20 or so boys we knew well by 17. Two were twins though, I feel a bit sorry for one as he was hot compared to the other 25, but his twin was super hot so everyone liked him instead. The less-hot one then grew his hair floppy which was all the rage and peacocked with a poncho (I don’t recommend doing this unless you’re part south american incan look like they were), still not as hot as his twin but differentiated himself from the cocky and funny blonde posh boy and the boy who was good at playing guitar (also part of the 5).

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  14. “the fact that modern women are more likely than generations past to preclude mouth, hand and ass love from the definition of sexual partner. Le Hamster Version Deux, he is working overtime, non?”

    Those modern women MUST score really low on REALITY TESTING!!

    Denial!

    Guys,

    you can go for these, but remember Glen Close in FATAL ATTRACTION? Easy targets, but there’s a price to pay!!haha! good luck!

    Like


  15. Roissy, we’re all waiting to hear your views about the mosque near the WTC site.

    Like


  16. these stats provided quite an ego-boost to yours truly.

    Like


  17. and agreed that, especially today, not calling oral sex–or even fingering, though this is more of a gray area–sex is basically a matter of semantics.

    In some ways, isn’t putting your mouth, where you eat and talk out of, on someone’s genitals even more intimate than putting your own genitals there?

    I want to see votes on whether an HJ (to orgasm) counts as sex. I think it does.

    Like


  18. I miss the year when I had three chicks in a day for about 270 days that year.

    All were geographically separated by about 8-10 miles and 10 years of life experience and social circles, so there was little chance of overlap.

    Good times, good times.

    Like


  19. ^ Nice e-stats!

    If I include blowjobs and any situation where I extracted my throbbing shlong, I’ve been with about 30-40 chicks. Most of them hew-ers.

    I’m in my late 20s, so it’s not that studly.
    But 6.7… Wow.

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  20. Why is this topic so important? Quite frankly, I am a little over the statistics. Numbers can be cut in so many different ways to get the results you want.

    Are the stats adjusted for the ratio of men/women in that age category?

    Who really cares? Are you going to assign those percentages to your boyfriend/girlfriend’s likelihood of cheating? Probably not, so this is all irrelevant and frankly is a waste of research dollars.

    Like


  21. on August 4, 2010 at 2:58 pm Obstinance Works

    More nails in the coffin.

    Like


  22. Sorry, but, to me, the stats on median number of partners tend to prove the opposite proposition (i.e., that a handful of women are really sutting it up with a lot of different guys). Because it suggests that a guy sitting at the midpoint (i.e., a half of the guys are above him and half below him) has more partners than a woman at the midpoint. If a handful of guys were getting nearly all the sex with a broad pool of different women, then, intuitively, the guy at the midpoint should be below the woman at the midpoint.

    But I am skeptical about the accuracy of the stats, and I suspect they don’t tell a complete picture (part of which would have to take into account the fact that the woman at the midpoint generally doesn’t wish for more partners but the guy at the midpoint probably wishes he had 3 or 4 times as many).

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  23. here is pupu’s dumb-down version of the statistics above:

    1. if you can count the number of your sexual partners in one hand, you are not promiscuous

    2. if one hand is not enough, but two hands are, you are somewhat promiscuous

    3. if two hands are not enough, but hands and feet together are, you are promiscuous but not wild

    4. if hands and foot together are still not enough, you know you belong to the wildest top 10 percent

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  24. @ pupu

    “4. if hands and foot together are still not enough, you know you belong to the wildest top 10 percent”

    I don’t think I buy this. I’ve easily exceeded 20 sexual partners and I highly, highly doubt I’m in the “wildest top 10 percent” when there are guys like PUAs, rockstars, athletes, Bill Clinton, etc. who have to be well into the triple digits.

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  25. If your partner is intentionally trying to cause you to ejaculate, and you do, I consider that a sexual encounter.

    I think that’s a pretty safe definition.

    Like


  26. I’ve got to disagree in throwing in oral and hand as someone’s number. Vag sex is the only real sex…procreative, biological sex organ on/in sex organ…The only reason anal should count is because its a big deal for a chick to take it like that. Only a really religious wack chick would have partners that were anal-only anyway. 99% of chicks who have done anal with a guy have also banged him. LOTS of high school and young college girls do oral only with guys they date. Vag sex is a bigger deal and is the only kind that should count IMO

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  27. Bounder, I agree that is a sexual encounter, but that is not having sex with someone. If I went out with a chick, and you asked me if i had sex with her, it would not be accurate for me to say yes if she wacked me off.

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  28. on August 4, 2010 at 3:28 pm gunslingergregi

    Well put it like this no man has ever whipped my ass by himself. So think caveman times and my ability to kill almost any other guy. Even in army I could physically beat everyone I worked with. Even in iraq I could pysically beat everyone I worked with.

    So I deserve more pussy or I’ll fucking kill you and take it he he he
    j/k somewhat he he he

    “Percent of all women 15-44 years of age who have had three or more male partners in the last 12 months, 2002: 6.8%

    Percent of all men 15-44 years of age who have had three or more female partners in the last 12 months, 2002: 10.4%”

    Key term here is

    ”””””””’week””””””

    Banner three post day.

    Yea looks like fucking same chick sometimes but thats not all bad shes just spreading love he he he

    Like


  29. dragnet,

    You are right! Pupu has made a mistake. What she dumbed down was for girls. For guys, if hands and foot won’t do, you are only the wilder top 30 percent.

    Like


  30. on August 4, 2010 at 3:33 pm gunslingergregi

    Yes even the huge fucking dude in kuwait who was built like a monster out of a fucking horror movie.

    He crushed my head in headlock like it was a grape and it hurt and I could not breath but I just waited until he got tired and then started punking his tired ass.

    All in good fun though he he he

    Like


  31. fucking lol at the men and women on this blog who think handjobs and blowjobs “don’t count” (?!)

    Like


  32. Hey Roissy, what do you think about giving out business cards like these to girls?

    Like


  33. on August 4, 2010 at 3:47 pm gunslingergregi

    Oh wait key term is 12 months lol

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  34. @ pantha

    Unctuous? Check. Approval-seeking? Check Check. Try-hard? Check Check & Check.

    BETA.

    ________________________________________________

    The only thing that saves this ill fated mission to get pussy from being completely FUBAR is that Steve Martin is a famous & wealthy actor—and thus alpha in the extreme. So his Game can sustain this kind of beta fuck-up with little damage. For regular guys though, this would be epic fail.

    Like


  35. on August 4, 2010 at 3:48 pm gunslingergregi

    oh shit that is funny.

    Like


  36. @pupu

    “1. if you can count the number of your sexual partners in one hand, you are……4. if hands and foot together are still not enough, you know you belong to the wildest top 10 percent”

    What if you factor in age? A 13 year old with five partner is off to a bad start in life. A 35 year old, not so much… Now supposed that the 35 her old lost her virginity at 20 and had one partner a year. Again, not so much… Not what I’d advocate, but I can see how it might happen.

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  37. Sidewinder–

    I’ve got to disagree in throwing in oral and hand as someone’s number.

    Hand jobs are certainly way less bonding for girls than bjs given are. Bj’s received can be another matter. But the full magilla is the full magilla.

    After all I learned in elementary school that hand jobs were second base. BJ’s of course being third. That was the wisdom of the ages, being whispered among the select few (at first) on school buses back then.

    If a girl has given 25 guys hand jobs cause it was the thing for good girls to do, that will likely harden her far less than having had full on vaginal and oral intercourse with 20 prior guys, in combos of relationships that broke her heard, one’s she coldly left, and lots of casual sex as well.

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  38. So in conclusion if full on vag plus oral sex counts as one, hand jobs count 0.212222 in a girl’s slut meter. Recalibrate accordingly.

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  39. @Sidewinder

    “LOTS of high school and young college girls do oral only with guys they date. Vag sex is a bigger deal …”

    It wasn’t always like that. How and when did that shift? Was it with Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky?

    Like


  40. If the author’s past conquests are to be believed, then, doesn’t that mean he’s one of those rarest of males getting all the tail and leaving the scraps for the rest of us?

    Isn’t life that way though? There are a few haves and a lot of have-nots? There can only be a few winners and a lot of losers? If everyone won a major award then the award wouldn’t be as prized or desired.

    Love stinks.

    Like


  41. You are about to get married. Would you rather your bride to have, in her sexual history, to have:
    1. Sucked off 10 different guys
    2. Fucked vaginally 10 different guys
    3. Fucked anally 10 different guys
    And has done nothing else.

    Which would you find least favorable?

    Like


  42. on August 4, 2010 at 4:13 pm The Rational Male

    “The rationalization hamster is half the female brain.”

    At least.

    Like


  43. 3 post today. Going on holidays?

    Like


  44. Xcite,

    That link makes me alternatively enraged and physically disgusted. Bile raising disgusted.

    Fucking gross.

    Like


  45. “That link makes me alternatively enraged and physically disgusted. Bile raising disgusted.”

    Clearly, you must not have as high of an IQ as that really really smart guy who likes to jerk off and feel terribly about himself while his gets ravaged by Big Jim Slade. Your loss.

    Like


  46. @XCite

    There is actually a reason for this. Its just gone off the rails. These men are addicted to a sexual pleasure brought on by male competition. Their brains are dipped in batter and fried, but the sex organ reacts on its own by increasing sexual pleasure to get the man in the game. However it went overboard and now these guys are after the reactionary sexual high. These human brains are still just prototypes you know, and some go off the rails.

    Like


  47. @Miley_Cyrax

    I would find [2.] least favorable (what horrible choices, thank you for bumming me out lol)

    Because just in case one of my babies pops out of that orifice in the future, it would be nice to not have to think a dozen dicks had been there before my offspring had landed.

    Like


  48. @ XCite

    Pretty sickening—but, believe it or not, I actually don’t have a problem with the cuckoldry phenomenon. Some guys are pathetic, omega cuckolds and enjoy it—fine. The real problem is that mainstream media is trying to make this phenomenon out to be much, much more common than it really is. Cuckoldry has gotten a lot more attention in the media in recent years and I think it’s giving undue oxygen to what is really still a mostly fringe phenomenon. I’m worried that this onslaught of unjustified coverage will have the impact of socializing boys & young men to think that this is actually an acceptable, dignified thing for a guy to tolerate.

    Like


  49. on August 4, 2010 at 4:36 pm Cannon's Canon

    GBFM,

    one thing you learn as you get more and more piussy is dat there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch

    are you having secretive Chicago School sessions with milton f. while murray r. watches?

    as long as jmaynard k. isn’t videotaping without conthent, i can dig it. (that dude was a perv)

    Like


  50. @J,

    the statistics above was on men and women age 25-44.

    but, yeah, pupu agrees with you that even in that age range, the absolute age still matters. some late bloomers only start in their mid 20s but catch up quickly. so a 25 year old who claim to have had 10 partners is likely more promiscuous than a 44 year old who makes the same claim.

    Like


  51. @Xontrarian

    Depedestalize to this: http://heterohj2.net/hjfiles/cfnmP1to5/P2/images/20020217wankpics1143_jpg_jpg.jpg

    Dammit, that was entirely unnecessary. Disgusting.

    Please, never do that again.

    Like


  52. @The Truth

    Fred on the hookup culture:
    http://www.fredoneverything.net/HookingUp.shtml

    This says it all. For those of you who say: We’re hypocrites for complaining about it and then ploughing the fields of pussy, … well, we didn’t do the landscaping.

    Seriously.

    Like


  53. @Miley_Cyrax:

    “Which would you find least favorable?”

    The part which goes:

    “You are about to get married.”

    @Bounder:

    “That link makes me alternatively enraged and physically disgusted. Bile raising disgusted.”

    I was laughing my ass off imaging some pseudo-intellectual liberal arts faggot listening to his femicunt she-bitch of a wife explaining to him that this is what she wants to do ergo this is what he needs to want to do and the poor bastard just sucking it up learning to like it.

    Like


  54. Editor, the stats you cite do not support your hypothesis. They support a different hypothesis, namely that there exists a small percentage of highly promiscuous women.

    That said, I don’t believe even anonymous sex surveys because we all know that women lie to themselves and everyone else about their sexual history.

    Like


  55. Hey, Nate, stop stealing my points!

    Kidding aside, I made the same point above, and it’s good to see someone else reach the same conclusion. I’m starting to wonder if the stats aren’t skewed by prostitutes and the guys who occasionally use them.

    [Editor: The stats prove the post’s point. Just because there is a smaller minority of women slutting it up doesn’t mean there isn’t a small minority of men with access to lots of poon. The slutty women aren’t necessarily sleeping with those 10% of alpha men. More likely, the alpha men are sharing the wealth among many women, slut to non-slut.

    If anything, a smaller group of slutty women indicates that women are more averse to sleeping around than men.]

    Like


  56. Huh? Far from being “soul-ripping”, this hard data from the CDC is a thorough rebuttal of the glorious Chateau worldview. Normal men get laid on the regular and the harsh dystopian world of loser virgins and entitled harem kings is a figment of Chateau’s imagination. 93 percent of men between 15-44 were having sex in the last 12 months, and their female partners were not slutting it up either. Less than 7 percent of women had three or more partners within the last 12 months. Even for peak slut-it-up age of 20-24, 90 percent of women had two or fewer partners in a year.

    [Editor: Nice strawman, gaywad. Maybe in your beta world, “action” means monogamous pairings, but in normal man world, action means having sexual access to lots of babes. Btw, your 93% number is wrong.]

    Like


  57. I remember my friend once telling me that her and her sorority sisters would all sit around talk about this guy that had graduated last year. They were all still in love with him.

    Like


  58. J,

    No, it was that way in high school for me and that was before Clinton/Monica. It seemed like if you dated a girl for more than 6 months, and worked from 1st base to 3rd base, you got stuck in a bj holding pattern until or if they decided they wanted to lose their virginity to you. Pretty standard.

    Like


  59. “1. if you can count the number of your sexual partners in one hand, you are not promiscuous

    2. if one hand is not enough, but two hands are, you are somewhat promiscuous

    3. if two hands are not enough, but hands and feet together are, you are promiscuous but not wild

    4. if hands and foot together are still not enough, you know you belong to the wildest top 10 percent”

    pupu, are you counting with your fingers and toes or are you writing check marks on your palms and feet?

    Like


  60. I can probably walk into a room and within minutes point out to you which man most women would be attracted to.

    Like


  61. @dragnet

    Cuckoldry is essential.

    “Cuckolding is rapidly emerging as the alt-sex fetish of choice for American intellectuals. Just check out the online forums like OurHotWives.org/forum, where letter-perfect postings celebrate cuckoldry as a cerebral pursuit, transcending ordinary voyeurism and S&M as a dangerous game involving jealousy, misery, gratitude, shame, sharing, sublimation, lust, and trust.”

    I cannot think of anything better. A mere tissue works like a lymph node trapping a wretched dribble that will finally do something about ending the reproductive cycle of these chest waxing “intellectuals”. They exude lethal biological agents that destroy entire civilizations. Their genetic grok is like juvenile hormone puked on an ant colony. Finally a solution. I would like to be there for the christening final act when the children of cuckoldry come of age and savagely beat their pale and weak ersatz p-uncles.

    Like


  62. “Editor, the stats you cite do not support your hypothesis. They support a different hypothesis, namely that there exists a small percentage of highly promiscuous women.”

    it’s the same hypothesis

    Like


  63. “[Editor: The stats prove the post’s point. Just because there is a smaller minority of women slutting it up doesn’t mean there isn’t a small minority of men with access to lots of poon. The slutty women aren’t necessarily sleeping with those 10% of alpha men. More likely, the alpha men are sharing the wealth among many women, slut to non-slut. If anything, a smaller group of slutty women indicates that women are more averse to sleeping around than men.]”

    In the sense that the male numbers tend to represent “access” whereas the female numbers tend to represent “willingness”, i agree with you. But 29% with more than 15 partners is higher than I would have expected. And I was more struck by how a very small number of women must really be getting around, even more than the alphas.

    Like


  64. Laura, that being the case, what is the process by which the girls then evaluate who they want to receive attention from? Even girls 8 and up are not going to focus solely on the hottest guy in the club. So what is the female strategy? To find the top 3-4 guys that catch their attention and send them all receptive signals? Or do girls evaluate the room and their approximate market value, and seek the best guy they think their market value will attract?

    I think what is often missed on this site and in the PUA mindset generally, is that while women want the alpha, they really want a relationship (leading to marriage, kids,…). At a certain point, a girl needs a date to the dance, and she’s not going to sit at home if Jonny Hot Guy doesn’t ask her. Girls want the relationship more than the alpha and they will adjust accordingly to maximize their chances at success.

    Like


  65. “And I was more struck by how a very small number of women must really be getting around, even more than the alphas.”

    how does the data show that?

    Like


  66. Sidewinder,
    You’re right. Most women are smart enough to realize they are never going to end up with the alpha male so they will settle for their 2nd, 3rd, whatever choice. Women do tend to all like the same man for some reason, but they also can fall in love with someone who wasn’t the guy that they were initially most attracted to.

    Like


  67. @AHE

    Every time a male gets a new partner, so does a female, so the overall collective numbers for each sex have to be the same (assuming the numbers are accurate). If the female median is below the male median, and if a relatively smaller number of females have reasonably high counts (in this case 15 lifetime), then it stands to reason that some subset of those women with higher counts must have REALLY high counts in order to bring the overall average up.

    Like


  68. Truth, Gorb–

    Gorbachev

    @The Truth

    Fred on the hookup culture:
    http://www.fredoneverything.net/HookingUp.shtml

    This says it all. For those of you who say: We’re hypocrites for complaining about it and then ploughing the fields of pussy, … well, we didn’t do the landscaping.

    That funny but biting post by Fred on Everything is golden.

    It should be required reading of all commenters on here, particular female ones. (Hi Audrey.)

    Like


  69. Laura,

    At a certain point, however, I think girls will write off the alpha as someone they’re not attracted to at all. It’s part of the hamster-wheel rationalization thing. A girl that’s a cute 6 knows she isn’t going to get the hottest alpha on campus, so she doesn’t even consider him. In fact, she may convince herself that she doesn’t like “big meat head jocks” or “preppy frat guys”, or whatever other category she can put the guy in in order to justify why she isn’t wasting her interest on a guy who she knows will never return her interest. In my experience, girls seem to have almost an innate sense of where they and a guy rate on the dating market value scale, and act accordingly.

    Now, if on a random night a drunk alpha were to dumpster dive for a 6, she’d probably rationalize why she allowed herself to sleep with him, but even then would probably not expect much if any relationship with him after the fact. IMO, she would go right back to the guys within a point or so of her on the 1-10 scale.

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  70. Sidewinder,
    Hypergamy isn’t great for women either. When you and tons of other women like the same guy you know it is going to be almost impossible to make him exclusively your own. That’s when you grow up and become more realistic about what you can get.

    Like


  71. Hi Doug!

    That post was wonderful and scintillating! Lol

    Like


  72. You are right about that also. You know you can’t get him so you tell yourself he isn’t that great anyway. Women are more realistic then I think a lot of the men on here give them credit for.

    Like


  73. That funny but biting post by Fred on Everything is golden.

    It should be required reading of all commenters on here, particular female ones. (Hi Audrey.)

    doug i think you mistakenly believe that people have issues with hte fact that you are “banging lots of hot pussy.”

    when really people are just making fun of you because you think that hitting one gf, one fling, and having an “emotional affair” with someone you’ve never met makes you alpha.

    when all it really makes you is some guy who is so much of a loser that he can’t even carry on two relationships in real life.

    more power to the guys who are “polygamous.” you are not one of them.

    Like


  74. Laura, I agree, but I think girls figure this out really early on. In 8th grade, they all want the best guy. By the end of high school, in my experience, they seemed to know where they kind of fit in the dating hierarchy, and they usually found pretty close to the equivalent male to be intimate with. Guys on the other hand, never stop believing that they can land a hotter girl. How old am I now?

    I lived in several different towns, and have been in several different social settings through different levels of school, or workplaces, and it has always surprised me how I ended up dating the girl that was pretty much my equivalent. Very rarely have more unattractive girls made moves, and very very rarely have more attractive girls even appear to have considered me. There appears to be a sense of the social dynamic that women pick up on that is more difficult for men to see. Your post about spotting the alpha in the room reminded me of this ability.

    Like


  75. AHE

    “pupu, are you counting with your fingers and toes or are you writing check marks on your palms and feet?”

    it’ll depend on the size of the pen point.

    Like


  76. “In my experience, girls seem to have almost an innate sense of where they and a guy rate on the dating market value scale, and act accordingly.”

    lmao

    Like


  77. I have always ended up with my equivalent also. That seems to be the way it always works out.

    Like


  78. @mark
    I don’t know your story so I’l give you the benefit of the doubt of glass houses and stones.

    All of Doug’s women know about the others and are ok with it. And he’s a man of much experience so no doubt he has had harems in the past.

    Some of the PUAs who brag about their MLTRs and/or harems have not bothered telling the women involved. So the women think they are in a monogamous relationship for months or years. Where I come from, this is not some lifestyle choice to aspire to, it is called cheating.

    Like


  79. “Sorry, but, to me, the stats on median number of partners tend to prove the opposite proposition (i.e., that a handful of women are really sutting it up with a lot of different guys). Because it suggests that a guy sitting at the midpoint (i.e., a half of the guys are above him and half below him) has more partners than a woman at the midpoint. If a handful of guys were getting nearly all the sex with a broad pool of different women, then, intuitively, the guy at the midpoint should be below the woman at the midpoint.”

    wait. this is a good point about the median. if male promiscuity follows a power law distribution, which has generally been expected here, the median number of partners should be LOWER for males than the median for females.

    the best test for how honest the respondents were would be to show the mean number, which of course would be exactly the same if all respondents were honest.

    a more telling study would divide men into quartiles. then you could easily see if there is a power law distribution.

    Like


  80. @Sidewinder
    “Guys on the other hand, never stop believing that they can land a hotter girl.”

    Probably just as well if it doesn’t happen too much, maybe their sensitive feelings would be hurt when they realised they were the object of ‘dumpster diving’..;-)

    Like


  81. When you come from a place of abstaining from sex because you think it’s special and want to share intimacy with as few people as possible, then all of the above does count, in my opinion. If it were all just about ways to avoid having vaginal intercourse, that would be different, but, really, what’s the point in that situation?

    Like


  82. @AHE

    That is why I suggest that, to my surprise, there appears to be a small set of uber sluts that are skewing the numbers even more than the alpha males. What I can’t figure out is if that subset is mostly comprised of hookers, since I don’t know if (i) hookers responded (or even could reliably respond) or (ii) the male respondents were including visits to hookers in their numbers.

    Like


  83. @Gunslinger

    “I will probably make a business type card.
    ..
    On that card it will probably state my goal of fucking every bitch on planet.
    ..
    I will hand that card out to about half the bitches on planet.
    ..
    Or I could probably just have chicks hand out the card for me. Kind of multiply myself and my time.”

    Could you not put it on Twitter? Would save a lot on printing costs.

    Like


  84. I would love to see a survey with a breakdown on female/male partner count according to location, occupation, age (within five year bands) & ethnic group. Has anyone come across any?

    In the alternative, a survey showing a breakdown of sexually transmitted infections according to the above might provide some assistance.

    Like


  85. lily

    i don’t understand how people continue to think that my problem with doug is that he has sex with multiple women. my problem with doug is that he thinks he is having sex with multiple women, and he is not.

    i would have more respect for doug if none of his women knew about each other…if they were at least real.

    Like


  86. the uber slut conclusion would only be true if female and male reported mean are the same. but women are more likely to under claim than men on such issues.

    Like


  87. @mark
    Where has Doug said he thinks he is having sex with more than two women (his live in and his summer weekend fling)? He freely admits the other one is an emotional affair conducted over phone and net. Although isn’t two a multiple?

    “i would have more respect for doug if none of his women knew about each other…”
    Ah. With all the stuff I read on here about women being such amoral evil creatures, it’s so nice to see such high moral standards amongst men.

    Like


  88. … so the female reported mean is likely lower than the male mean

    Like


  89. @Sidewinder
    I think what is often missed on this site and in the PUA mindset generally, is that while women want the alpha, they really want a relationship (leading to marriage, kids,…). At a certain point, a girl needs a date to the dance, and she’s not going to sit at home if Jonny Hot Guy doesn’t ask her. Girls want the relationship more than the alpha and they will adjust accordingly to maximize their chances at success.

    While this is true, you forget the behaviors we see all the time, and the actual actions of women:

    1) They have “minimum standards”. The important this about these standards are that they’re relative to the men they see giving them attention: They usually stick to the top 10% of the men they have in their field. If there’s a sudden influx of super-hot men, the standards just go up. It’s the female ego thing. It’s automatic.
    So: Even if 5-15% of the men are whoring it around and serving the whole bunch, this is fine: They’re the top 5-15% and those are the guys that matter. The rest have nicely sorted themselves out of the running.

    Best place to be to pick up women: where there are no men or the men are socially inept. Unavailable means nothing: women will see some great guy, and even if he’s not available, will measure others around him against him as the level to beat. It’s why internet dating is so difficult with game: Looks are literally everything. Job is a distant second, but appears on the radar. Character is less important than the dust on the bottle of lube beside the bed.

    2) They can play with the 10% most interesting/attractive men while they wait for a good guy to come along. Riding the cock carousel. Women now do this, it’s standard and normal. I’ve met SWPLs who had 20-40 partners by the age of 35. Not counting non-vaginal sex. The ultimate goal is to get one of the 10% to commit, but as this is unlikely, they settle.
    The ones who settle are the most dangerous: You’re their second prize. They always wanted – and always will want – first prize.
    That only 10% of the men are first-prizes means that most relationships are, at the very best, distant seconds, if not thirds. These men get cheated on easily. They’re the Betas. I know they get cheated on. The pattern is always the same.

    3) Time runs out: Women will often choose to be single for as long as possible until their time runs out (around 30-35). Then their standards drop precipitously: The actual *man* as an individual matters nothing. The *fact* of his presence is now all that maters: She has a Husband and a Father for her children that she stamps out with her sperm donor. The man serves a function, nothing else. There’s a risk of this when she’s 24, too, but it’s lower. By 35 it’s huge.

    Remember: For the woman looking for the “Man I Can Have” versus “The Man I Want In My Pussy”, the “Man I Can Have” is nothing more than a placeholder. Like the little digit “0”.
    He’s a bank account, a Working Stiff to provide money, and his sperm may do for children (but cuckolding is also fine, and if she can convince him it’s okay, then even better).

    The thing of it is, … as the man approaches 40, he’s at the top of his game. As the woman approaches 40, … she’s way, way past her prime.

    While women may want the relationship, the “relationship” is desired only with the attractive guy (measured by what makes her gina tingle). There was a time when women weren’t as picky. Now, they’re like ADHD shoppers. Lots of women know this about themselves and other women.

    Look at Sex and the City: Come on Men, Dance! Dance! Dance for me!

    And if the man doesn’t tingle her gina, you can trust me on this: A huge percentage of those women, unpredictably and randomly sorted, will get that gina tingled elsewhere.*

    * Divorce after 4-8 years for reasons of “He doesn’t make me tingle any more” is effectively bailing or welching on the deal, and are cheating in extended time; the man has given up his money, labor and support for her ( children and child support and alimony), will likely give up access and decision-making control over his kids, and she gets to get everything she wanted – and can now chase Alpha Big Cock. Same sad pattern that bites all kinds of men in the ass.

    The Internet

    The Internet is absolutely filled, filled to bursting with women chasing the Alphas they remember riding from a decade before. If you want these women, it’s not even work. It’s so absurdly easy any man who isn’t ugly or stupid can get them.

    What the hell does that say?

    It says to men, and me, and all the males I talk about it with: If I get married, it’s going to be from a position of power. She’s going to provide me with a fair exchange. I expect to be the Man. I’ll be the judge of what’s fair. And cuckoldry- cheating – any of the behaviors that are fine when there’s no agreement are A#1 reasons for ditching the entire kaboodle immediately, and using maximum vengeance in the legal system and among friends and family.

    She cheated on you? Advertise it. Make it known publicly what a shameful slut she is. Make it absolutely clear to everyone that *she* ruined the marriage, that *she* sabotaged it, that *she* ran it aground. Don’t just say this: Be above reproach. Be willing to go to counseling. Be the Good Guy.

    Best, make sure, in a gentle way, that your kids know it, and always remember it, and be courteous and nice to your ex: See to it that when she’s 65, and her grandkids ask why she left, they and every other member of your family talks about it. That she did it because some bad-ass dude came by and offered her his dick, and she gutted the family on the blood-stained altar of narcissistic self-fulfillment.

    (Corollary: Your job is to keep her sexually interested and satisfied as a partner. Fail this, and the blame then falls to you, and your humiliation is your own).

    I’d get married now, largely because I know what “hand” is in a relationship, and how to maintain it. Its why it’s a Holy Task to spread the word of Game. This Roissy blog and Assanova and the whole fine crew may be the only cures for what ails a decaying social order.

    This is the only condition in which I’d do it again.

    That women don’t realize what their behavior generates and are so readily able to fool themselves never ceases to amaze me. Feminists have truly poisoned the social well. And they have no idea that they did it. And ironically, they’re just as much victims as anyone else.

    Online:

    The one attractive guy on a site can fuck almost all of the women. One fellow I worked with says he never dates or sarges or meets women outside of the internet. He’s handsome, and this gets him automatic responses from every woman he ever messages. He can bed almost any of them whenever he wants. Another fellow has a hard time getting 10% response rates, and he’s not ugly – hardly. He’s just not handsome like guy #1.

    So women in their 30’s are doing exactly the same thing online that they did when they were in their 20’s. The responses they get give them delusions about their sexual value.

    I have an acquaintance running a speed-dating service (meet and greet); 10 men sit across from 10 women, they talk, change, and at the end of the evening, you indicate on a piece of paper who you’d like to talk to again.

    She says maybe 10% of the men get 90% of the “I’d like to communicate with him” responses. These men are never predictably the richest or most interesting. They’re the most flamboyant and outgoing and usually the most handsome. The women aren’t picking from a “general” standard – they’re picking from the men *at the table*. They’re not even conscious of this.

    The males responses: She knows when she meets a client whether or not they’ll get responses. Fat: no. Smoker: 50% what it might have been. Children: 50% what it would have been (but she said women always, always lie about this).

    But even so, the women get much more evenly distributed responses. So long as they pass certain filters, the men respond to more than 70-80% of the women. If the women are all ugly, then they all get no responses.

    How’s that number?

    Men’s standards are far more honest, and you can call them vain, but actually, they’re far less so. Attractive? Yes. Unencumbered? Yes. Good to explore.

    The women’s standards are: Top 10-15% of the Men I Can Maybe Have? Yes. Good to explore. But these are variable and change by whatever environment she’s in.

    Men think women are capricious and don’t understand the concept of Fair or Making a Deal (marriage).

    Female mating habits: Men, Dance, Dance, Dance for me!
    In Marriage: What have you done for me – lately?

    Sounds bitter, and overly harsh. But absolutely true.

    Any man who marries without knowing exactly what he;s getting into, or who thinks HIS woman is different, is in for a world of pain.

    In the long-term sense, women know nothing of loyalty or devotion or respect, unless it’s to a more powerful male who commands it from her.

    Whereas men will throw their lives away for devotion and loyalty.

    All of this is basic evolutionary sociobiology. There’s no point in hating women: They are their programming. They’re as much machines running off their instincts as men are. OF course women aren’t loyal (a priori), they don’t understand fairness or deal-making or true reciprocity. Neither should they. Their reproductive strategy as the female animal emphasizes other things.

    So, men, the best thing: Know the bitter animal you desire to court. Know it when you hunt it. Understand the female brain. Don’t ever listen to what they say: they lie to themselves every minute of every day.

    Know how they behave.

    And for women, … as a male, I have no idea what you should understand about men (they will cheat, but this doesn’t mean they’ll leave?). Men are simpler and less convoluted and less complex.

    But any man in a relationship needs to wake up and make one crucial realization: his woman is a creature, an animal that is unaware of its own motivations almost all the time. The man may be the same, but his motivations are really fucking simple (food, sex, sleep, status, achievement). He’s not too picky about any of it, relatively speaking.

    Know your creature. Understand her. Love her for it. But never, ever forget what she is. The more you know her and love her for the flighty, capricious monster she can be, the more you can make sure it’s you that she loves.

    And the word for this: GAME. Tell every male person you know. Save the world.

    Like


  90. Sidewinder

    @Laura

    At a certain point, however, I think girls will write off the alpha as someone they’re not attracted to at all. It’s part of the hamster-wheel rationalization thing. A girl that’s a cute 6 knows she isn’t going to get the hottest alpha on campus, so she doesn’t even consider him. In fact, she may convince herself that she doesn’t like “big meat head jocks” or “preppy frat guys”, or whatever other category she can put the guy in in order to justify why she isn’t wasting her interest on a guy who she knows will never return her interest.

    I gotta start with the caveat that who seems hottest especially in high school but also in college can and really does change considerable, though usually not totally later on. Success or clearly headed there including the changes in confidence that can bring makes a big difference in some guys, while other small pond athletes fizzle and don’t get and run with that higher end sales job that some do well with and so on.

    That said what you’re constructing here is the American world of the mid 60s and prior. There remain survivals of this today and did through the intervening period but less and less unto today, with no stop yet away from this model.

    What’s changed is the sluttification of so many middle and upper class American girls. (There’ve always been a fairly large number of lower class and lower middle class ones.) That and the really extended period before first marriage of so many upper middle class and lower upper class girls unto thirty and even middle thirties. That leaves a whole hell of a long time for semi slutty and then slutty girls rated 6’s and up to be chasing alpha cock, and they do. Often interspersed with upper beta or lesser alpha relationships, which they not infrequently cheat on, giving them practice for marriage.

    Like


  91. mark–

    doug i think you mistakenly believe that people have issues with hte fact that you are “banging lots of hot pussy.”

    I’ve never said I’m doing that currently. I’ve settled down pretty much. I’m older than Roissy and most of the guys on this board.

    Like


  92. Miley_Cyrax

    You are about to get married. Would you rather your bride to have, in her sexual history, to have:
    1. Sucked off 10 different guys
    2. Fucked vaginally 10 different guys
    3. Fucked anally 10 different guys
    And has done nothing else.

    +++++++++
    BJ would be preferable. Anal in the Era of AIDS is a definite turn off. Woman I know told me she had unprotected anal sex with a guy who was mostly gay, and it was wonderful. I looked at her and decided she was completely insane.

    Like


  93. @pupu

    “the uber slut conclusion would only be true if female and male reported mean are the same. but women are more likely to under claim than men on such issues.”

    The validity of my Uberslut Hypothesis would depend on how drastic the female underreporting was. A little underreporting wouldn’t change it. But, yeah, I did previously mention the assumption that the data is valid (which is a big assumption).

    But perhaps it’s not so surprising since, for the small number of women who decide they want a lot of meaningless sex, they can pretty much get it on demand, even more so than alphas. If a warpig like Jaclyn Friedman can get a bunch of casual hookups on craigslist, imagine what even a 5 could get.

    Like


  94. @Anon

    I looked at the PDF on the site, which shows that the median is higher for men than women in every single age group. Since this is in America and the same hold for 15-19 year olds, I doubt hookers are playing a material a role.

    The study also mentions that the data is based on in person (!) surveys, which would encourage lying the most. At any rate, CR’s best argument would be that this data shows how much girls lie about sex, because if this data is to be believed sex is more egalitarian for men than for women.

    Like


  95. You are about to get married. Would you rather your bride to have, in her sexual history, to have:
    1. Sucked off 10 different guys
    2. Fucked vaginally 10 different guys
    3. Fucked anally 10 different guys
    And has done nothing else.

    Having done any of these options would preclude only one response here:

    Don’t Get Married.

    There is only one reason why any man should subject himself to the institutional clusterfuck that is marriage 2.0 – to have legitimate children.

    Why would you want the mother of your children to be a slut?

    Like


  96. This, together with your inception post, has resulted in me downward revising my estimate of your iq by about 5 points. The statistic about the median contradicts the case you’re trying to make – if the distribution of number of sexual partners for men had a fat right tail, the median should be low relative to the mean, not high.

    Also this is rendered completely unbelievable by systematic reporting errors.

    I actually believe what you’re trying to say wholeheartedly, but these statistics don’t prove shit.

    Like


  97. The effects I see – of women always picking for the hottest guys – might be be a unique American city thing.

    The non-fat girls (so very few) think they’re *much* hotter than they actually are – so they think they’re 7-9’s when in fact they’re 4-6’s.

    So if a 5-7 guy comes up to them, they scoff; they wait lonely and biding their time because a man 1 point above what they actually are is disgusting to them.

    And so many women are fat and gross, that in college, the alphas had fewer women to take down – meaning that they got hotter guys than they could ever, ever keep in a LTR.

    So maybe the cause of the effect I see is the epidemic of obesity and fatness in American society.

    50% of women are just not fuckable; the remainder get too much attention, and think they’re hotter than they are.

    I tell you this: Going overseas is eye-opening. When I was in Asia, the white girls, normal white girls from the States, and especially the black girls, were shocked at how fat, ugly and unapproachable they were. Within a month, the white guys had hot younger Asian girlfriends; the women often spent the entire time without any sexual attention at all.

    The white guys all had what were, by relative standards, super hot girlfriends. Slim, feminine, obliging, sexy. The more game or cultural adaptivity and looks you had, the bigger and hotter your harem, but they all had harems. I knew a guy – not attractive, a weenie, shy – who had GFs who were ridiculously hot compared to his *no* girlfriends at home. And he wasn’t ugly. He just wasn’t attractive enough in the US and didn’t want to fuck fat women.

    The white women in Korea all got the occasional guy (who just arrived), but they had to go abroad to buy clothes. And the white men had harems of painfully hot pussy.

    So I subtract some of what I said earlier. I think it’s the fatness of America that has fucked over the brains of some women.

    Like


  98. Original comment got stuck in moderation, so paring back:

    As Anon suggests, look at the median data. In an alpha/harem society, you would expect the median # of partners for women to significantly exceed the median # of partners for men. In fact, the survey shows the opposite – 6.7 partners for men, 3.8 partners for women.

    I don’t disagree with the Chateau hypothesis about alpha vs. beta sexual access, but I don’t think we’ll ever find the data to support it in sex surveys because females will tend to understate their true numbers.

    Anon also makes a good point about prostitution. Ideally, to get a cleaner look at mating dynamics, we would want to exclude sex workers and sex acts with those workers.

    AHE, to your point about the mean – as I recall from other sex surveys, the means are never the same (which of course means that either some people are lying, or they are not basing their answers on the same premises – i.e., including/not including paid sex, oral, anal, etc.). Predictably the mean for men is higher than the mean for women.

    Like


  99. Mark–

    more power to the guys who are “polygamous.” you are not one of them.

    Your deliberate misreading of me and endless efforts of gotcha for personal attack is tiresome. Just who are you around here anyway? What contributions have you made? Who finds you fun to talk to?

    I’ve didn’t say I was polygamous. Nicole may have. Roissy talks a lot about soft polygamy (first time I’d ever heard the term or idea) so yeah I recognized that in what I have done in the past and am doing this summer.

    As for my online etc. emotional thing (which started as light playful flirting here and just developed into something long lasting due to B’s religious and cultural situation and just how fun she is), of course that isn’t a physical full relationship. I’ve a couple of times mentioned it as a kinda quasi polygamy since it’s gone on as long as it has. But of course I’m not living Big Love. Don’t think I’d want to either, actually.

    Like


  100. Gorby, that’s a depressing post. You’re right, fatties boost the perceived attractiveness of non-fat women.

    For more depressing thoughts, especially for the marriage and child-rearing minded man, consider this. I live in Manhattan, which probably has the highest concentration of hot women anywhere in the US. Yet even here, there is no shortage of fat girls. And I’m near a university and it’s just amazing how many of the coeds are fat or well on their way.

    Once you subtract the sizeable number of fatties, you still have problems. For one, many of the non-fat girls are smokers – a habit guaranteed to ruin their appearance in the long run. And many of the rest have tattoos. Do you really want the mother of your children to have a tramp stamp?

    The pretty, not fat, no tattoo, non-smoker is the rarest of birds, even in NYC.

    Like


  101. Gorby–

    Fatness too. Fatness and sluttiness caused by feminist permission. Sluttiness has it’s upsides. Fatness has none.

    Like


  102. @Chainring

    Manhattan has the most attractive women in the country. Alas, they know it, and they know that most of the women men can meet are fat. So they’re happy all dating the same few hot men, until they can get one of them.

    And you’re right about the smoking. I don’t know – it’s not as bad as Europe, but too many NYC women smoke.

    American women, generally, just have more revolting habits than most of the foreign women I’ve met. Though it can be hard to find a non-smoker in France or Germany.

    Like


  103. @ anon

    “A little underreporting wouldn’t change it.”

    if the question was asked in multiple choice format with lumped-up categories, the effect of underreporting could be great.

    Like


  104. Gorb,
    Your beta stripes are really showing through with that bitter diatribe.

    Like


  105. Forgive me for being dense, but why would you say fat women are un-fuckable? Particularly if you’re a fat man?

    Fat people appear to be reproducing which would offer evidence against the idea of fat = unfuckable.

    Like


  106. “Fat people appear to be reproducing . . .”

    THERE OUGHTA BE A LAW AGAINST THAT!

    Like


  107. However, CR could still be right if he adjusts his theory slightly. Say only the top 10% of the population of both sexes are short-term trading in the sexual marketplace. As said on Seinfeld: “Only 5% of the population is datable.” Perhaps the power-law distribution for males only occurs at the top of the range.

    Some more data from that PDF hints this could be the case:

    Age 15-44, how many sex partners in last 12 months:

    # partners: % Males
    0: 16
    1: 63
    2: 8
    >3:10

    Females
    0: 15
    1: 68
    2: 8
    >3: 7

    So most of the population of both sexes is having about the same number of partners for counts 0, 1, and 2. Then at >3 we cross into an unknown wilderness. Except for one suggestive fact (again, if the data is to be believed, and it probably shouldn’t be): 68% of women have one partner whereas only 63% of men do, which implies male polygamy, but that only about 5% of women are taking part in it. For 90% of the population, life looks pretty boring for both sexes.

    Like


  108. on August 4, 2010 at 7:19 pm gunslingergregi

    ”””””’So I subtract some of what I said earlier. I think it’s the fatness of America that has fucked over the brains of some women.”””””

    Boooo yaaaaa
    If all the girls look good then yea all the girls look good he he he

    Just like if there is only a few looking good chicks.

    I travelled the east coast of us and saw about the same amount of good looking woman as I saw on my trip to the grocery store the other day.

    But yea where I am at the chicks all thin with decent bodies and the dudes all brad pit body look alikes.
    You tell me the us is wealthy. he he he

    Dudes marry virgins and the chicks get dude with the tight body.

    Like


  109. @Laura

    Gorb,
    Your beta stripes are really showing through with that bitter diatribe.

    The memory of a bitter beta dies hard. And if I can’t let lose on a blog site that beta males read, then where can I?

    Like


  110. @LJ
    Forgive me for being dense, but why would you say fat women are un-fuckable? Particularly if you’re a fat man?

    Fat people appear to be reproducing which would offer evidence against the idea of fat = unfuckable.

    Okay. How many non-fat people are chasing after fat ones?

    I was making a few assumptions here, of course.

    Like


  111. on August 4, 2010 at 7:24 pm College Grad

    Off topic a bit but a gold mine for this site:

    http://larrykinglive.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/03/sugarbabe-favors-negotiated-infidelity/

    So is this the next step for marriage in the 21st century? God I hope not.

    Although I can’t seem to find it, the interview is outrageously entertaining.

    Like


  112. on August 4, 2010 at 7:25 pm gunslingergregi

    The us uses social fucking engineering to creat wealth not based on human happiness but based on unhappiness.

    When people are content and happy they don’t work their asses off to become happy they just enjoy their lives.

    Like


  113. pupu, you’re killing me here. I had visions of publishing my UberSlut Hyphothesis in some fancy pants journal of sexology. The fame would have instantly raised my alpha cred.

    Like


  114. I’m not saying either fat women or men get chased after, but if obesitiy is equally prevalent in men and women, then it removes an equal number of people from the “chased after” category. And I think your average fat man would happily fuck a fat woman, even if it’s not his first choice, and vice versa.

    [Editor: Lemme fix that for ya…

    “your average fat man would happily fuck a fat woman”

    any portly in a storm.]

    Like


  115. Laura

    Gorb,
    Your beta stripes are really showing through with that bitter diatribe.

    horseshitte.

    Caustic and bitter aren’t the same thing.

    Bitter as used cuttingly by feminists/women implies loser, especially in the relative competition for women. (Of course they vastly overuse it as a weapon and as a shield.)

    Besides he’s in social observation mode.

    American women HAVE gone to shiite due to excessive feminist entitlement in multiple ways. There are many exceptions sure as he more than said. But the trends are only getting worse. The fact that the exceptions know that they’re that gives them a scarcity value relative to equally hot men that they don’t deserve.

    Like


  116. Laura–

    Explain to me if you will why all these burgeoningly fat 5s and 6s and some 7s don’t lose weight for an enormous increase in their dating game success? Unlike with what game works to unlearn in feminist indoctrinated white guys of gen Y, it’s not like the entertainment media isn’t constantly telling them the opposite of what works for girls. (I guess schools often kinda are at least officially though, and they’re certainly a key extended phase of indoctrination of girls at formative ages. You’d think the evidence of the hallways though would be enough to counteract that feminist fat permission.)

    Like


  117. @ anon,

    make sure you do not register as “anon” in that fancy pants journal of sexology, otherwise the appreciation of your alpha cred would only lead to a dissipation of the alpha median 🙂

    Like


  118. Ok, well whether they’re happy about it is beside the point anyway. If I don’t like ham sandwiches, but that’s the only food in the house, I’ll eat a ham sandwich even if I’d rather have a lobster. The effect is the same. Fat men might prefer to fuck skinny beautiful models but they’ll take what they can get.

    I was replying to Gorb who was claiming that fat women are unfuckable and should be removed from any consideration of the sexual marketplace. Since they are clearly participating in it, as evidenced by the number of fat American children, that doesn’t make any sense. Further, if obseity is equally prevalent across the genders that doesn’t really give skinny women any kind of advantage because they don’t want to fuck fat men and more than fit guys want to fuck fat women.

    Like


  119. I just don’t understand why men aren’t more sympathetic to women because of their hypergamous nature. It’s lousy to know the man you love the best is also loved by most of your pretty girlfriends and many others. We know we’re interchangeable for the most part. I’ve spent so many nights drinking wine, listening to tortured love songs and thinking about someone I’ll never be with. It isn’t that much fun for us either.

    Like


  120. “Further, if obseity is equally prevalent across the genders that doesn’t really give skinny women any kind of advantage because they don’t want to fuck fat men and more than fit guys want to fuck fat women.”

    I suspect a fat guy with pretty tight game would do better than a fit guy with horrible game. That’s the theory, anyway, and I think we some evidence of that (cough, Sodini, cough).

    Like


  121. sorry, what pupu wrote above was mathematically wrong

    Like


  122. Laura:

    I thought you were married. Does your husband know you are still spending these tortured nights thinking of Great Books 4 Men? Or am i thinking of another Laura?

    Like


  123. Gorbachev–

    The memory of a bitter beta dies hard.

    What made you beta back in the bad old days do you suppose? You’re articulate, personable, and have a feel for women. I have a strong feeling I know but would like to hear your take on it, if you don’t mind. Might help guys too.

    Like


  124. @LJ

    I was replying to Gorb who was claiming that fat women are unfuckable and should be removed from any consideration of the sexual marketplace. Since they are clearly participating in it, as evidenced by the number of fat American children, that doesn’t make any sense. Further, if obseity is equally prevalent across the genders that doesn’t really give skinny women any kind of advantage because they don’t want to fuck fat men and more than fit guys want to fuck fat women.

    Women are the gatekeepers. There may be equal levels of fatness, but the effects on men (because women are the gatekeepers) are more than the effects on women.

    And one man can service several women. One woman doesn’t usually concurrently service several men (if there’s even a pretense of a relationship).

    And women do make men dance. Dance! Dance! Dance for me! And then they pick the ones they like. Over time, women pick the few that dance nicely. The rest don’t get picked, or get picked far less.

    Sad but true.

    And the fatness, as Roissy so blithely puts it, prices the pussy out of the marketplace. So now, only the Alpha Alphas will do.

    So fewer and fewer men service all the attractive women. And women get the entitlement feeling: I had that hot guy. I want only hot guys.

    And they’ll go without until some hot guy recreationally fucks them. And the perfectly good 5-7’s around them get ignored because the 9 Alpha won’t fuck them today.

    Dear God this is happening everywhere. The colleges are poon factories for guys who can pick up women or who are hot. And it’s all casual sex, and the women are getting pegged by the same 10-15% of the guys.

    If you don’t see this, you’re blind.

    I just speculate that the fatties have cut themselves out of the market and given that so few Americans are therefore sexually attractive, the ones that are left – the female gatekeepers – aren’t spreading it around. They’re found that 50 of the men (fatter than they should be) want them, AND all of the other men want them. Why? Because there are – again – fewer attractive women to date.

    So 100% of the men want them for fucking.

    But for relationships – while their Fucking Desirability Quotient has gone up, their Relationship Desirability Quotient is the same.

    Hence – cats and vibrators at 35 and delusions of Most Attractive When We Reach 31.

    Like


  125. on August 4, 2010 at 7:52 pm Markku Koponen

    Pupu: Does your screen name mean what I think it means? If you don’t immediately know what I’m talking about, then the answer would be no.

    Like


  126. Markku Koponen: Does your screen name mean what I think it means? If you don’t immediately know what I’m talking about, then the answer would be no 🙂

    Like


  127. @Laura
    I just don’t understand why men aren’t more sympathetic to women because of their hypergamous nature. It’s lousy to know the man you love the best is also loved by most of your pretty girlfriends and many others. We know we’re interchangeable for the most part. I’ve spent so many nights drinking wine, listening to tortured love songs and thinking about someone I’ll never be with. It isn’t that much fun for us either.

    This is why I don’t hate women and I always tell men: Don’t hate them.

    It also means that when they say I Love You and I’ll Love You Forever and Let’s Get Married (Forever!) I know exactly what they mean.

    You know the old saying: Never believe thieves or womens’ promises. And trust is something different when it comes from a woman.

    Keep control. Love them – but understand them.

    * A piece of advice: All that wine you’re drinking on your own dreaming of the guy who you can’t have or who, more likely, doesn’t exist? Give it up now and accept – and appreciate – the men who are around you and are, um, shall we say, *real*.

    If you know your hypergamous instincts are betraying you, then own it and don’t let them own you. Women tell men all the time to stop cheating or looking at pretty girls. If we’re supposed to alter our natures to make it possible to live with us —

    Maybe you should too.

    So go out and share that bottle of wine with actual men.

    Like


  128. on August 4, 2010 at 8:01 pm Markku Koponen

    If you did know what I was talking about, then the answer would be yes.

    Like


  129. Doug1 wrote:
    “Laura–

    Explain to me if you will why all these burgeoningly fat 5s and 6s and some 7s don’t lose weight for an enormous increase in their dating game success?”

    I find this mind-boggling. With the amount of female competition for (alpha) men that goes on in modern/feminized America, you would think fat single women would do whatever it takes to get in shape, and thus attract more alpha males. Yet plenty of single fatties do not. Color me confused.

    Like


  130. on August 4, 2010 at 8:07 pm Some hotties 4U

    Get ready to feast your eyes…(or bleach them)..

    This chick scored a 6.8 on hotornot:

    http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=BEHUASR

    ↑Any takers?

    This one scored a 9.5:
    http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=EEOUKYO

    A 3.0 who is rated a 5.4:
    http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=OQAYSYN

    This one scored an 8.6:
    http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=OQSEKRE

    I think this chick’s cleavage scored the 9.2:
    http://www.hotornot.com/m/?=55767&vt=1&state=vote&votee=2246880

    An 8.4 (I think I know this chick lol):
    http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=BUNUNU

    This one cannot be a woman (I’m calling tranny):

    http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=OEEUE8O

    No way in hell is she a 9.5:
    http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=BMKZOMH

    She scored the prize 9.9:
    http://www.hotornot.com/m/r/?emid=EMGSE8

    No wonder women are delusional.

    Granted, these women are not airbrushed and photoshopped to hell but c’mon. Reality cheque!

    Like


  131. obviously the male attention they ARE getting IS satisfactory

    that’s the most elegant explanation

    Like


  132. @Doug1
    Gorbachev–

    The memory of a bitter beta dies hard.

    What made you beta back in the bad old days do you suppose? You’re articulate, personable, and have a feel for women. I have a strong feeling I know but would like to hear your take on it, if you don’t mind. Might help guys too.

    I was a twisted crippled male: Indoctrinated, obliging, the very epitome of the feminist Male.

    I had a great feel for women. I had relationships aplenty before I got married (though I’d say, … beta relationships). I was the Nice Guy. I was a pleasant memory for my ex-GF’s. I lived with two women. Then I got married.

    I was doting, fun, funny, good (enough?) in bed, a good cook, multitalented, able to do lots of things. great guy to be with and popular enough. Not super handsome but not ugly, the nice guy. Every woman’s friend.

    I was the supreme Doctor in the House and Superfriend.

    I failed every shit test: I supplicated and bowed down. Everything she ever wanted, I gave her. I was always reasonable. I never once raised my voice in anger; she did all the time. I accepted it.

    I was exactly the man the magazines said women wanted.

    I was *EXACTLY* the man my wife didn’t want. Her list of BF’s after the divorce included a crazy musician who treated women like bitches and whores, a trainer at the gym who fucked everything that moved and was famous for it (broke her heart), a weenie guy who rode a motorcycle, and this awesomely decent guy who *also* treated her like gold – and who she left. I knew the guy (long ago) and heard about him. Really, capital fellow, nice guy, couldn’t do better. Maybe better to her than I was.

    Left him. She only wanted the bad boys. Then I learned about game and realized: I don’t know shit about women. I really don’t.

    So I started to learn, treated women the way they needed to be treated (instead of how they said they wanted to be treated), and then – I realized I wasted 10 years of my life.

    I probably could have had all the hot babes in college, too, if I’d known what I was doing and hadn’t been the Nice Guy.

    Now – I see it. It’s the Red Pill, for sure.

    Women fool themselves, don’t blame them.

    Any man who believes the lies of the feminists and the women in their lives is doubly a fool: He’s believing the fools.

    Like


  133. The 9.2 and 9.9 are fuckable. The 9.9 is genuinely hot.

    The rest no.

    Some are … well.

    Like


  134. on August 4, 2010 at 8:20 pm gunslingergregi

    ””””Lily
    @Gunslinger

    “I will probably make a business type card.
    ..
    On that card it will probably state my goal of fucking every bitch on planet.
    ..
    I will hand that card out to about half the bitches on planet.
    ..
    Or I could probably just have chicks hand out the card for me. Kind of multiply myself and my time.”

    Could you not put it on Twitter? Would save a lot on printing costs.
    ”””””

    Well I think that the personal touch might help and make sure word got out but if you send me a plane ticket I’ll give ya some passion he he he

    Like


  135. Gorb

    The women’s standards are: Top 10-15% of the Men I Can Maybe Have? Yes. Good to explore. But these are variable and change by whatever environment she’s in.

    Therefore the number one major component of game is controlling your environment, and your woman’s environment..

    Game at places where you stand above the crowd. Don’t let her hang out with sluts and whores. Find a girl too busy with work to have options, then continue to limit her options. Move to a place where your value increases.

    Like


  136. Dana wrote:
    “obviously the male attention they ARE getting IS satisfactory

    that’s the most elegant explanation”

    Right. So does this comport with the Roissy worldview? I suppose a case could be made that since even the fatties can get an alpha for a lay, they are somewhat satisfied, and don’t find the effort involved in losing and maintaining weight to be worth the benefit of landing a beta.

    For example, take your average 25yr old single fattie who rates a 5. Let’s say she can get up to 7 by losing the excess fat. From her perspective, even as a 7, she doesn’t think she can keep an alpha because there’s just too much competition from 8s, 9s and 10s. So the best guy she can keep is a beta. And maybe for her, the upside of landing a commitment from a beta isn’t worth the effort involved, given that she can still occasionally fuck an alpha.

    Like


  137. on August 4, 2010 at 8:31 pm gunslingergregi

    ”””’a good cook,””’

    ”””I never once raised my voice in anger; she did all the time. I accepted it.””””’

    Dam bro,

    “gives gorb the manly hug”

    Remember this no matter how much you feel you have learned or feel you could learn unless you are willing to follow through on killing a western bitch for fucking you up in a divorce. All those things you think would be remedies of shaming and getting family involved and all that crap is not going to stop a woman from doing the same thing. The only thing that stops a woman from fucking up a mans life is true male power. The only true male power is the ability to kill. If you are not willing to do this do not marry under the western rule set. There is nothing else in your arsenal as a man that will or can stop the bitch.
    Unless maybe you have enough money to split and both be ok. Maybe.
    But then once the ring goes on the woman your hand goes away.
    And I am sure your experienced enough to know that even when you are fucking like rabbits the shit goes away after a while and you fuck less. But yea it is a cruel and viscious world.

    Like


  138. American men must be the laughing stock of the world. Witness Miss Plus Size America: http://www.missplusamerica.com/

    Like


  139. Doug,
    I see what you are saying. Since it is so important for young women to be seen as attractive you don’t know why they would ever allow themselves to be overweight. Most of the women I know do put a lot of effort into staying thin and in shape.

    Like


  140. high systematizing males often can’t see the trees for the forest, everything said on these websites is a perfect generalization of the truth, in that everything accurately describes the hump of the bell curve of normal human behavior

    in reality sluts, betas, and all manner of outliers weirdos and ugly fat people get married all the time, love each other, have sex, go to cosplay conventions together and basically live their lives

    Like


  141. “Remember this no matter how much you feel you have learned or feel you could learn unless you are willing to follow through on killing a western bitch for fucking you up in a divorce. All those things you think would be remedies of shaming and getting family involved and all that crap is not going to stop a woman from doing the same thing. The only thing that stops a woman from fucking up a mans life is true male power. The only true male power is the ability to kill. ”

    Cuz nothing says “I’m an alpha” like getting repeatedly ass raped in prison after going to the Big House for killing your ex wife.

    Like


  142. on August 4, 2010 at 8:39 pm gunslingergregi

    There is a reason my first wife just left and didn’t have an accidental baby nor ask me for money.

    She agreed to the gun prenump before marriage which doesn’t use a lawyer but is only based on the true power of a man. The thing that can never be taken away.

    Like


  143. on August 4, 2010 at 8:41 pm gunslingergregi

    ”””””anon,
    Cuz nothing says “I’m an alpha” like getting repeatedly ass raped in prison after going to the Big House for killing your ex wife.

    ””””’

    I have been to jail coolest group of guys I have ever met.

    Like


  144. “I have been to jail coolest group of guys I have ever met.”

    Yeah, I saw that Beavis and Butthead episode when they tried to “scare them straight”, but they ended up wanting to come back so they could hang with the guys in prison and get cool tats and stuff.

    Like


  145. Dana makes a good point. While all the social dynamics talked about on here are true to a large extent there are many shades of grey. People do still mange to get together in spite of all our difficulties relating to each other.

    Like


  146. on August 4, 2010 at 8:50 pm gunslingergregi

    honestly I could have made some good bros in jail if I would of had to stay there. Playing spades and shit. Kind of like an army deployment except I didn’t have to work.

    Like


  147. Some hotties 4 U,
    I think that second to last girl is really cute.

    Like


  148. its amazing how people have internalized the assrape in prison meme

    you do understand fear of going to jail with assraping black thugs is how the elite frightens regular men into not socking their cheating whore shrews in the jaw, right?

    my husband was in jail a few times, he says its bullshit–if you stay out of everyones business and dont get involved with prison politics you are left alone. he also said the fags weirdos and child molesters all had to hang out together because no normal prisoers would relate to him at all

    Like


  149. relate to THEM, god i cant fuckin type anymore

    Like


  150. I know someone that spent time in a local jail and he told me there wasn’t any raping going on there. These guys were all doing a year or less time and someone told me that happens in prisons where the men know they are going to be there for years. Even so, it wasn’t a pleasant experience being locked up like that.

    Like


  151. Well, I suspect the elite has more important conspiracies to attend to that prevent them from worrying about how I handle my cheating shrew, but it is comforting nonetheless to hear that the prison rape thing is largely a myth. There are a few other people I may want to kill, and I don’t want my shrew to have to worry about the tender rosebud of my anus while I am locked up.

    Like


  152. im not saying it doesnt happen mind you, im saying its overblown in the GAY FANTASY media both as basically homoerotica, like the fagfest OZ, and as social control

    Like


  153. Gorb–

    I was a twisted crippled male: Indoctrinated, obliging, the very epitome of the feminist Male.

    Your story is exactly what I thought it would be. Though you gave it great detail which should be very instructive to betas here. You seem to me to have clearly been a higher beta. Would could and did marry an attractive woman, who also sounds highly sexual/impulsive. And then it all fell apart because you didn’t do married game. (maybe did’t chose perfectly too.)

    My story is similar only I wasn’t as fully indoctrinated, but enough. Always resistant to “the personal is political” side of feminism. I’m older so it was easier to resist for higher SES guys but still real hard, due to less completely saturated programing then. But still I had plenty of good guy chivalrous programing to make up for the lack of total feminist immersion.

    Guys read what Gorb said to me above.

    My opinion btw is that the number of total alphas in a society isn’t always fixed because it’s always relative, comparing one guy to another. I think the ranks of higher beta and beta males have greatly swollen due to feminism, and that a whole lot more guys would be perceived by women as lesser alpha and very doable if feminism had been confined to the 1st wave and what was evolving along simple “equal rights” lines from that tradition in the early sixties. The whole social engineering,change human nature, ram through equality of gender results (as if that’s a good thing) of the cultural Marxist feminists has been an entirely and completely bad thing. Repeal it all.

    Like


  154. on August 4, 2010 at 9:19 pm gunslingergregi

    But you guys make good money. Now imagine a guy who is like that who doesn’t lol

    And still gets fucked by system.

    That is the true bleeding motherfucker.

    He is making 10 bucks an hour and has to pay half his income on alimony/child support. Plus doesn’t get the fucking refund check for the kids like the wife does plus doesn’t get the free house and plenty of food like the wife does.
    What is his life like?

    Like


  155. i just drew a couple quick and dirty curves on my blog showing how i conceptually visualize the partner count curves, which is both consistent with the CDC data and with the idea that the power law ratio for men exists at the tail of the curve but not for most of it (the curves cross twice). the curves are exaggerated for conceptual effect and sloppily drawn for masculine effect.

    http://ahappinessexperiment.wordpress.com/2010/08/04/sexy-curves/

    of course it all becomes meaningless if the girls in the survey just happened for some shocking reason not to have been telling the whole complete truth. but a thought experiment anyway.

    Like


  156. gun

    what my husbands life was like, plus being on the lam

    fuck the VAWA and child support

    Like


  157. experiment

    Like


  158. Getting in the system like that can really mess up your life. This person I know has turned his around, but it took years.

    Like


  159. i just drew a couple quick and dirty curves on my blog showing how i conceptually visualize the 2 partner count curves, which is both consistent with the CDC data and with the idea that the power law ratio for men exists at the tail of the curve but not for most of it. the curves are exaggerated for conceptual effect and sloppily drawn for masculine effect.

    of course it all becomes meaningless if the girls in the survey just happened for some shocking reason not to have been telling the whole complete truth. but a thought experiment anyway.

    Like


  160. on August 4, 2010 at 9:26 pm gunslingergregi

    I mean really there are the rich guys who get divorced and fucked and middle class but when you squeeze half of the money out of an average guy there wouldn’t be much left for him to even eat.

    Then people look down on those poor bastards.

    That is when the shit kills me.

    These are the guys loading 1600 boxes a day into fucking trailers and 58 pallets in an 8 hour day for ten bucks an hour.

    Getting fucked like this.

    So I guess really better to get the good job and be an ass licker and make the dollars and have more of an opportunity to change than a poor dude who has same shit happen he he he

    Like


  161. on August 4, 2010 at 9:30 pm gunslingergregi

    ””””””dana
    gun

    what my husbands life was like, plus being on the lam

    fuck the VAWA and child support

    ””””’
    Well yea murder suicide only way to go. Go let god be the judge of that shit. I think god would understand a situation where you were gonna become a slave. I think I could plead a pretty good case under those circumstances.

    Like


  162. Fat chicks listen up. Oh and you fat dudes too. Go Primal/Paleo. Cut out sugar, grains, starch, legumes and a few other things. I’ve done it now for a few months, the results are amazing (still a bit to go). But the best part? You don’t crave food, in fact it’s kind of hard to eat enough. Once your blood sugars even out you are not a slave to food. Tru stry.

    I’m with Doug, why not increase your market value when you’re dating? My market value increased. ( Break-up currently taking place aside…ahem)

    Like


  163. he still has PSTD after we fixed his situation

    the court ordered anger management was fun though, we still take out the book and flip through it for a laugh

    Like


  164. on August 4, 2010 at 9:35 pm gunslingergregi

    Although I suppose if he made it through to you I might be wrong.

    Like


  165. Doug1, re: the waves of feminism, an important thing to keep in mind is that by giving women suffrage (19th Amendment to the Constitution), all the rest is inevitable.

    It is easy for politicians to appeal to emotions (where women are more easily manipulable), and women are more cooperative (voting blocks), so suffrage and the march of technology made it inevitable that patriarchal societies will become feminized and destroy themselves.

    The only way a patriarchy can withstand this erosion is to keep women disenfranchised. For all the railing that goes on against Islamic culture in this blog’s comments section, the Muslims have figured this out, while the supposedly higher IQ Europeans did not.

    Like


  166. They put him through hell and then can’t understand why he is so angry.

    Like


  167. actually we like to say that since anger management he “manages to get angry” lol id tell you the story but ive bored ppl here enough with it

    im sure you can imagine it if you know whats going on in the us

    Like


  168. on August 4, 2010 at 9:41 pm gunslingergregi

    ”””””dana
    he still has PSTD after we fixed his situation

    the court ordered anger management was fun though, we still take out the book and flip through it for a laugh””””

    How did you fix it?

    Like


  169. I’ve read some stuff and I never realized how unfair the family courts can be to men. It definitely needs to change.

    Like


  170. on August 4, 2010 at 9:44 pm Markku Koponen

    Christians always had the way out – the monastery. Eventually secular society will follow. But it will be the opposite. Like a pussy monastery. You have to mount at least four different girls a week or you’re out.

    Like


  171. on August 4, 2010 at 9:48 pm gunslingergregi

    Yea really though I should be getting paid for ptsd for what happened after my dads divorce. I mean I could have been making the million per year if I would have gone to school as planned. Probably still will. Or you know paying me for not being able to kill myself and the us having no problem ruining my life anyway.
    noone actually gives a fuck about the kids in a divorce and what they have to see.
    It is all bullshit. I just can hope asians take over to end american pain. We don’t know how to let people be free.

    And at 50 percent divorce it is not some hump it is half of marriage.

    Like


  172. gun,

    when i met him he was “wanted” on a warrant for breaking probabtion and failing to go to anger management and failing to pay his fines. having been repeatedlt areested for low level bullshit had rendered him homeless several times (not when i met him) and he lost all of his shit a bunch of time

    i though he was just a weirdo and being one myself i figured that was okay lol (he couldnt understand why i answered the door with weapons and told me at first he thought ‘is she wanted too’?)we lived together about a year when he finally broke down and told me the truth about everything because he couldnt take it anymore . he thought id hate him and turn him in or hold it ove rhis head like so many others had, but all i said was “we’ll fix it!” (a fond memory in our household 🙂 )

    we had to get him ready to turn himself in, psychologically and his step father cropped back into his life out of the blue and paid his fines and dropped the bogus burglary charges he had filed against him–it was really scary for him, he was sure he’d go to jail and his life would be ruined again but instead he got probation and anger management, and since he had a stable home and a job and a loving gal who helped him every single way possible he was able to complete the whole course and be done with it, that was 5 years ago now and we’ve been married 2 🙂

    Like


  173. 2xsplatGorb
    The women’s standards are: Top 10-15% of the Men I Can Maybe Have? Yes. Good to explore. But these are variable and change by whatever environment she’s in.

    Therefore the number one major component of game is controlling your environment, and your woman’s environment..
    Game at places where you stand above the crowd. Don’t let her hang out with sluts and whores. Find a girl too busy with work to have options, then continue to limit her options. Move to a place where your value increases.

    This is actually very good advice.

    Like


  174. Chainring–

    For example, take your average 25yr old single fattie who rates a 5. Let’s say she can get up to 7 by losing the excess fat. From her perspective, even as a 7, she doesn’t think she can keep an alpha because there’s just too much competition from 8s, 9s and 10s. So the best guy she can keep is a beta. And maybe for her, the upside of landing a commitment from a beta isn’t worth the effort involved, given that she can still occasionally fuck an alpha.

    Yeah but. First of all she’s only gonna be able to get a solid alpha once in a blue moon, and that’s only if she hangs out in bars etc a whole lot getting ignored by all hot guys all the the time. Then it will only be entirely on his term and her treat her with veiled or unveiled disgust after and want to hide that he did her. Plus he’s likely to be utterly uninspired in how he plugs her. She might get less alphas more often but under the same conditions.

    If she lost weight she could likely snag a relationship minded lesser alpha for a LTR if she’s also a fun charming person and compatible in intelligence and some interests. As well there’s a continuum beteen higher betas and alphas, and higher betas with backbone and not too lean over backwards an attitude can really do it for a lot of 7s, if other things click well.

    In sum she pays an enormous price for being fat. Less so in the black community, but she does in either the white or E. Asian ones. I think S.Asians guys are somewhat more forgiving about thickness in their women, from homeland attitudes tied up with arranged marriages with status and money being everything, but that that’s really not true anymore of S.Asian guys born in the US who are catches. (It still seems though that male game is less important to S.Asian girls than other ones, with money more important, generally speaking. But any S.Asians here, correct me please.)

    Like


  175. on August 4, 2010 at 9:56 pm gunslingergregi

    ””””’on August 4, 2010 at 9:44 pm Markku Koponen
    Christians always had the way out – the monastery. Eventually secular society will follow. But it will be the opposite. Like a pussy monastery. You have to mount at least four different girls a week or you’re out.
    ”””””
    lol that is where I am now.

    Yea you can get out ya just save money to where you can chill and relax till death.

    I laid down on my wifes tits with her arms around me and my arms around her and I felt at peace with the world for the first time in a long time.

    Maybe love will kill the demon per natural born killers.

    Like


  176. on August 4, 2010 at 9:58 pm Markku Koponen

    lol that is where I am now.

    Do you wear a robe and introduce yourself with “I am a pussy monk and I would like to worship with you”?

    Like


  177. 50% of women are just not fuckable; the remainder get too much attention, and think they’re hotter than they are.

    Amen to that Gorby.

    I live in the Midwest, so I see more than my share of fatties. They’re fucking bold too.

    Like


  178. @gunslingergregi

    Remember this no matter how much you feel you have learned or feel you could learn unless you are willing to follow through on killing a western bitch for fucking you up in a divorce. All those things you think would be remedies of shaming and getting family involved and all that crap is not going to stop a woman from doing the same thing. The only thing that stops a woman from fucking up a mans life is true male power. The only true male power is the ability to kill. If you are not willing to do this do not marry under the western rule set. There is nothing else in your arsenal as a man that will or can stop the bitch.
    Unless maybe you have enough money to split and both be ok. Maybe.

    Um, … killing the bitch was a little off the menu. I don’t think I want that to start up again. Some advances in the last 500 years have been actual improvements.

    Actually, I blame myself: I made the mistake of listening to my wife (what she said she wanted), listening to other people, and listening to my culture. Only one friend told me to get the hell away from her. And no man told me how women really work, just how mysterious they were. The counselor blamed me for everything, so I became even more of a mangina. That drove her away faster.

    She was incredibly frustrated.

    So: The fault with Betas lies entirely with the Betas for being ignorant or unwilling to change.

    On the other hand, her family loved me and there’s no way she could rape me in court. We split everything 50-50, no alimony, and no kids, so it was all good. One year and done. I moved out of state, then out of the damned country.

    I tell you: Murder is unnecessary. Living well is the best revenge.

    (I do feel sad about it from time to time – from a “lost hopes” kind of thing – but it’s long since dead and buried and gone. In fact, I’m not all that upset about it in fact; my life improved immensely after divorce. I recognize that this, however, might NOT have been the case, and *that* pisses me off. I’m very upset for all the other men I know, meet, or hear about).

    Like


  179. Hotornot’s numbers are as bloated as the peeps. I keeping thinking that someone needs to wheel in all that butter into the cooler before it melts. Wasn’t interested in the natives. What for?

    Like


  180. @Doug1,

    @My opinion btw is that the number of total alphas in a society isn’t always fixed because it’s always relative, comparing one guy to another. I think the ranks of higher beta and beta males have greatly swollen due to feminism, and that a whole lot more guys would be perceived by women as lesser alpha and very doable if feminism had been confined to the 1st wave and what was evolving along simple “equal rights” lines from that tradition in the early sixties. The whole social engineering,change human nature, ram through equality of gender results (as if that’s a good thing) of the cultural Marxist feminists has been an entirely and completely bad thing. Repeal it all.

    I have no problem with first-wave feminism. I even have no problem with female cops. I’ve seen some state troopers and most recently a female Ontario Canada state trooper (?) who was a woman: I’d never mess with these chicks (But damn, would I have fucked the Canadian one: she looked like fun). What I have a problem with is this Marxist garbage that spews like pusillanimous bile out of the anus of every university and humanities/social sciences department in this damned country.

    Equality: I’m all for equality. Results-based equality? What retard thought that shit up? Humans just don’t work that way. It’s counter to human nature.

    Racial differences – gender differences – individual differences – if we play our cards properly, and let the chips fall where they’re supposed to, feminism along those lines is fine. Equality before the law makes huge amounts of sense. Equality of results does not.

    If we did it right, I predict: A lot fewer female engineers, but some. A lot fewer female mathematicians, but an occasional one. A lot more female schoolteachers. A lot of comfy jobs in air conditioned offices with women in them. A few high-testosterone female CEOs, ballbreakers but respected by men. A lot of mushy middle-management women. A lot more housewives and hard-working men.

    And a lot more fucking happy people.

    Like


  181. Gorb,
    That wasn’t so bad that you got to walk away with no obligation to her. You’ll probably end up better off than her in many ways. I don’t even know if I would have any hard feelings toward her since it doesn’t sound like she treated you that unfairly. I know a few women who got divorced in their 20’s without children because they just weren’t into being married. In a way maybe they did the guy a favor.

    Like


  182. @dana
    we had to get him ready to turn himself in, psychologically and his step father cropped back into his life out of the blue and paid his fines and dropped the bogus burglary charges he had filed against him–it was really scary for him, he was sure he’d go to jail and his life would be ruined again but instead he got probation and anger management, and since he had a stable home and a job and a loving gal who helped him every single way possible he was able to complete the whole course and be done with it, that was 5 years ago now and we’ve been married 2 🙂

    Dana,

    Good for fucking you.

    Seriously, nice job. Lucky man.

    Like


  183. im a lucky gal, i think the sun rises and sets on him

    Like


  184. Gorb—

    I don’t see how splitting your assets 50/50 was fair at all, at least theoretically. Maybe it didn’t make much difference. They should have been split according to who earned them or was gifted them, as in a living together arrangement. The idea that marriage is automatically a 50/50 economic partnership no matter what is an outrage. Take the red pill against feminism here too. It never had been even after 1st wave feminism and it shouldn’t be now. It was a brand new 2nd wave feminist invention that only starting gaining wide currency in the 80s, though it began being lobbied and put through by feminists in the 70s and maybe in Cali in the late 60s iirc. It was only implemented in Britain in family court effect, though not yet by statute, in 2000, copying America.

    This is what gave Paul McCarthy’s worthless wife her huge millions and Tiger Woods Erin her absurd payout for being a pretty housewife, arm candy and presumably good mother. (Yeah there was a prenup, but feminists have got the public to start from the assumption now that half is fair for the woman just for being a rich man’s woman. Ridiciulous. Huge emasculation of successful men’s power.) The results of this law with really wealthy men are hugely unjust but they are as well with upper middle class ones. When it happens young enough and the guy isn’t making that much more or more it doesn’t make much difference but it often inherently hands huge power to highly successful men when and if they marry.

    Like


  185. Laura,

    Some hotties 4 U,
    I think that second to last girl is really cute.

    I agree. Maybe not a 9.5, but the quality of the photo looks like it was taken with her camera phone or some equivalent. If she had a professional photo taken, like the last 9.9 seems to have, it might have made a difference. I think she has a cute face.

    The 9.2 would be much prettier if she took the hardware off her face and didn’t look kinda mean. She also looks like she might benefit from some exfoliating, even though her skin isn’t that bad.

    Like


  186. i think the 50/50 split arose with good intentions when it was MEN who cast off women who were the mothers of their children when they aged, thereby not only depriving them of what would have been theres but for, bu talso basically paying them for their used up youth

    that the ABANDONING spouse gets a dime in the no-fault age is the grave injustice THEN there should be equitable distribution by contribution

    bored cuz your husbands too nice and likes to stay home playing xbox honey? wanna divorce so you can bang jerks? go for it but NO SOUP FOR YOU!

    Like


  187. on August 4, 2010 at 10:39 pm Cannon's Canon

    OZ was a good show though

    no homo

    Like


  188. @LauraGorb,
    That wasn’t so bad that you got to walk away with no obligation to her. You’ll probably end up better off than her in many ways. I don’t even know if I would have any hard feelings toward her since it doesn’t sound like she treated you that unfairly. I know a few women who got divorced in their 20′s without children because they just weren’t into being married. In a way maybe they did the guy a favor.

    I know it’s not that bad. But at the time, it crushed me: I did literally everything to save the marriage. She was pretty (7 at the time, I would say, but aging badly); smart; educated; and charming. We were well-matched (she was prettier than I was handsome, though not by much; her friends thought I was a good catch, all things in). And she … just… kept… testing… me.

    Seriously, the shit-tests were brutal, and came fast and furious. Anger, complaints, weird requests (“You’re not supposed to just do what I want. You’re supposed to know what I want.”) Guilt trips for everything, literally everything.

    The more I gave her – did for her – performed for her (even in bed) – the more she despised me.

    I recall the one time I actually cried, after a 3-hour lecture about something utterly insignificant, with serious attacks on my pride and dignity, with complaints about how frustrated she was, her tears, and when I cried with her she started shouting even louder.

    One time, I said, “Now you’re being a bitch.” And I walked out. I stayed out for 2 days. When I came back, I noticed that we got along much better for about a month. Not only that, but our sex life improved. But it went inevitably back down the tipper. At the time, I credited it to her being more reasonable. But she never did apologize, or say anything about it.

    In fact, this was it: I was a feminized mangina. I listened to her. And her friend. And other women. All of these women knew Shit about what my wife wanted, including my wife.

    It was all naked lies. Even the counselor, three degrees and all, had no business opening his mouth in public to say anything about relationships.

    The bad boys she rode like a rodeo star after we split treated her like absolute crap and she lapped it up, loved it. The musician she dated crushed her absolutely and she whined about him to a friend (and once to me, even: we remain “friends”, of a limited sort) for two years.

    On the other hand, I descended into a nightmare of self-hatred and self-denial for 8 months, from which I barely escaped, and then a very nice woman dragged me out of it and introduced me to game. Within a year I was dating much hotter women than my wife, and a year after that I was on a crazed shopping spree beyond my wildest imagination in another country, where my only thought was “Holy shit.”

    So in a way, she did me a favor. On the other hand, she crushed me and forced me to rebuild myself. She could have saved us all the trouble and been a decent human being.

    Or actually done and felt the way she *said* she felt.

    Had she also trashed my income and future, like lots of other men have had happen to them, it would have likely made me a criminal socially or actually.

    All for her Gina.

    So: Her reward is a barren late 30’s with bitter memories. She once called me up a couple of years ago and asked me for man-advice. As her ex-husband. I laid it out for her, and told her why and what she was doing. And the mistakes she’d made with this guy.

    And then she dated this wonderful, truly awesome guy, really, a better catch than me, and he had some money, too (I need to work; he had 16 weeks off a year). But he Betaed himself right out of her life. One of her friends said she was being a retard over this, and eventually she was the one who spilled it all to me. At that point I was tempted to sleep with the friend, just because I was being small-minded, and it became obvious as the conversation and evening wore on this was more than possible, but I didn’t want to be a total dick and she wasn’t that attractive. But it occurred to me.

    I tell you: womens’ hypergamy instinct is poison to them, and if they don’t control it, it fucks them up. And the men in their lives, too.

    So my bitterness is more theoretical at this point than anything else. I’m angry at what the legal system does, I’m angry at what people say (and the rampant hypocrisy of it all), I’m angry at how women claim *any* moral superiority for their gender, I’m angry at the delusions I lived under.

    I’m angry when I see other men being taken advantage of.

    I truly think there should be a marriage strike. The laws as they are are just killing many men. It’s repugnant.

    I’d say it was better elsewhere, but:
    the Canadians I’ve met seem *WAY* too PC for me and happy and comfortable and complacent. I can’t believe they make this PC crap work up there, but the facts on the ground are pretty damned impressive, it has to be said; I just wonder what the real social dynamics are, because it can’t be what I saw. Happy and complacent and a lot wealthier than American society is, by and large (except for the potholes, the damned potholes, I nearly needed to get my wheels realigned).
    The South Koreans have their own problems aplenty and there’s no improvement changing locations by going there, the Japanese are, well, Japanese, and their social problems and their legal system are fucked in ways it’s hard to explain without volumes of books, and the French and Germans are locked in their own little EU worlds with unique sets of problems I don’t think America should have.

    And Sweden – the most bizarre stories come out of there.

    So being bitter about all this is all theoretical for me. But theoretically real.

    And there’s not really anywhere else to run to.

    How’s Australia looking these days?

    Like


  189. dana–

    dana

    i think the 50/50 split arose with good intentions when it was MEN who cast off women who were the mothers of their children when they aged, thereby not only depriving them of what would have been theres but for, bu talso basically paying them for their used up youth

    Sure in that case she should get a reasonable amount if it’s truly a case of the man just casting her off without he say refusing to sex him anymore, as courts had been deciding for a long time before 2nd wave Marxism based feminists invented the fifty fifty split in the 70s. But not half if that’s more than her reasonable needs. A no I don’t think that should amount to fully everything she had grown accustomed to . If she continues to be a good life partner to him and good to live with the vast majority of highly successful men would continue to remain married to their first wives and simply have mistresses later on, as had always been the real world custom in western society, if not the letter of Church law. It was forgiven.

    Like


  190. on August 4, 2010 at 10:52 pm too late for romance

    Laura at 7:12

    Gorb,
    Your beta stripes are really showing through with that bitter diatribe.
    ____________

    Regardless of the validity of your shaming language, he’s absolutely right.

    Like the man said, “The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.”

    Taking the red pill isn’t the easiest thing to do, but the world is what it is, and it doesn’t give a shit about anyone or anything. So a man might as well accept it, use it to his advantage, and enjoy the ride. If that’s a bitter pill for a man to swallow then that’s the way it goes.

    Like


  191. Doug1 wrote:

    If she lost weight she could likely snag a relationship minded lesser alpha for a LTR if she’s also a fun charming person and compatible in intelligence and some interests. As well there’s a continuum beteen higher betas and alphas, and higher betas with backbone and not too lean over backwards an attitude can really do it for a lot of 7s, if other things click well.

    Sure, that’s what might be possible for her. But empirical evidence suggests that many single women are foregoing this option. Why?

    My post offered an explanation for this seemingly highly suboptimal behavior that comports with the Roissy worldview, namely that single fatties don’t view landing a beta as sufficient reward for the sacrifice involved in losing/maintaining weight, especially in light of the fact that all but the morbidly obese can lay a guy several notches above them in status. So they get their cake (‘gina tingles) and eat it too (the actual cake).

    This game only works in their teens, 20s and maybe early 30s, but we all know that women tend not to be particularly future time oriented in the first few decades of life.

    I’m not saying this is the definitive explanation for the single fatty phenomenon, and I certainly welcome others. Note other explanations exist that are not compatible with some of the precepts of the Roissy worldview.

    Like


  192. @Doug1
    Gorb—

    I don’t see how splitting your assets 50/50 was fair at all, at least theoretically. Maybe it didn’t make much difference. They should have been split according to who earned them or was gifted them, as in a living together arrangement. The idea that marriage is automatically a 50/50 economic partnership no matter what is an outrage. Take the red pill against feminism here too.

    I agree now. I was glad not to have to pay alimony. My lawyer had a machine-gun nest set up and was all hunkered down, ready for the assault that never came. He said that, in retrospect, I got off really easy. He didn’t give me a discount, though, I recall.

    It never had been even after 1st wave feminism and it shouldn’t be now. It was a brand new 2nd wave feminist invention that only starting gaining wide currency in the 80s, though it began being lobbied and put through by feminists in the 70s and maybe in Cali in the late 60s iirc. It was only implemented in Britain in family court effect, though not yet by statute, in 2000, copying America.

    I agree now: I think it should be based on income. But let’s split hairs here: If we could trash alimony, I’d take a 50/50% split on income made during the marriage as the lesser of two evils. Total it all up and hack it down the middle. And stop all the other bullshit.

    That would be a step forward for men. Alimony definitely has to go: There’s no justification for it at all, at all, at all, ever. Even traditionally, it was just chivalry and White-Knightism.

    And also get rid of no-fault divorce. That has to get right the fuck out. Though women can still make shit up or provoke men into becoming the villain (very common).

    I’m quite bitter about the state of marriage, and with the ability to get poon, unless I meet a truly mind-blowing woman who wants to get married, that’s off the table permanently. And then, of course, it happens. WTF. Well.

    This is what gave Paul McCarthy’s worthless wife her huge millions and Tiger Woods Erin her absurd payout for being a pretty housewife, arm candy and presumably good mother. (Yeah there was a prenup, but feminists have got the public to start from the assumption now that half is fair for the woman just for being a rich man’s woman. Ridiciulous. Huge emasculation of successful men’s power.)

    We both know this is shit. Women will defend it up the wazoo, but there’s no reason for it. I’ve yet to see even one solid argument for splitting assets 50-50. The only justification I can see is: as a sop to the feminists to let us get rid of no-fault divorce and alimony, which are frankly greater crimes.

    The results of this law with really wealthy men are hugely unjust but they are as well with upper middle class ones. When it happens young enough and the guy isn’t making that much more or more it doesn’t make much difference but it often inherently hands huge power to highly successful men when and if they marry.

    I think these men should basically never marry. They need to pull what rich Asian guys do and keep mistresses.

    For rich men, marriage is truly for suckers. It’s unnecessary and useless. You can will things to your (genetic) children.

    Why rich men don’t see this I don’t know.

    They can pay a woman an allowance if they want to keep some crazy hot girl around them, call her their mistress and treat her properly (well). If she acts out, cheats or screws around, dump her. No consequences.

    The whole idea that she’s entitled to any more money from him is some sort of feminist man-hating training.

    Women just don’t see it. Why? The same thing as always:

    “More for me! More for me! You owe me!”

    Like


  193. Chateau, this post makes you look like an idiot. What these numbers suggest (as other commentators have stated) is the following:

    1. most women aren’t slutty

    2. there is a small group of extremely promiscuous women (perhaps not coincidently, a similar number of women lost their virginity through rape as minors: a common reaction of sexually abused girls is to become slutty; for example, 60%-80% of strippers were sexually abused as children)

    3. if you are a man with many partners, the chances are very good that you are sleeping largely with these extremely promiscuous and possibly psychologically damaged women

    I would suggest these facts contribute largely to your cynicism about women.

    Like


  194. Alpha track of the night:

    (WITH NUBIAN VOCALS — for our boy Dragnet)

    (yeah, I had a minor altercation tonight)

    Like


  195. Grace, that’s an interesting argument. But it would fall down if players had a number of virgins in their count, wouldn’t it?

    Like


  196. Gorvachev–

    I don’t think women should get either alimony or a 50/50 split in a breakup unless they have a prenup where men agree to give all or some part of that.

    Women now make up almost almost 60% of college graduates and have the right to compete for almost any job, at women’s insistence. They should have to support themselves if they can’t hold the marriage together. That would put the pressure for it do so back where it should be and always was. At feminist insistence marriage is no longer for life but at will. Overwhelmingly at women’s will with divorce having in half of all marriages and initiated 2.5x as often as men.

    Women would still get, if they have minor children at home, child support=stealth alimony at 50% or more of her ex husband’s after tax take home pay all in in high tax states. That’s plenty of extraction from him for his divorcing her or forcing him to by cheating and not stopping or wanting to go hunting for a badder boy while he supports her. Just wrong. No she shouldn’t live as well after divorcing her ex husband if he makes a lot. Tough. She doesn’t get his lifestyle or close to it if she’s giving him nothing in return.

    Women shouldn’t be able to live off men by court order.

    Like


  197. Gorbachev–

    In the typical case among upper half people where a woman marries an at least somewhat older guy who makes more money than she or soon will (since that’s far more important to a guy’s continuing attractiveness to a woman than the reverse and guys know this in their bones) just what is it that the woman enforcable promises to her husband in today’s feminist America.

    Certainly not that she’ll stay with him and make him a good partner and wife forevaandeva.

    Certainly not that she’ll always provide him a reasonable amount of sex when not significantly ill, or even any at all after a time of her chosing. If he were to insist too much on what used to be his marital rights as a core quid pro quo in his marry in fact, feminists have now made that marital rape, among other things to drive home the point.

    Certainly not that she’ll forsake all others. What are the consequences if she doesn’t?

    What exactly Gorbachev?

    So explain to me again why a man should be forced by courts to help support his ex wife after marriage when she’s no longer giving him anything? And why should he be forced to give her half of what he hasn’t already given her from his earnings during marriage either? In return for what should he constructively promise to give her this when she’s no longer giving him anything?

    Like


  198. From the stats I think we can say that some men and women fuck more often. Regardless of how you define attraction for hook up sex, (looks for women or game and status and looks for men), it’s the hot men and women who are fucking most. Because they can.

    The bulk of women don’t fuck around much with Alphas, or otherwise. The bulk of men get far less action and of far lower quality than they want.

    So pick a strategy. Marry a religiously indoctrinated virgin and keep her in your house, or learn to compete on the sexual marketplace with all the beautiful people and enjoy multiple partners or serial monogamy.

    Find out your propensities, learn your strengths, and aim for what will get you what (you think) you want.

    My feeling is that most men have a terrible time understanding women. We think of them from the only vantage point we can – from our own. This puts us at a terrible disadvantage. They don’t think in terms of fair bargain, as men do. They don’t talk in terms of accuracy and truth, as men do. They don’t say what they mean, or know what they mean, and they don’t stay the course – they stay in the moment, and bargain for best advantage in the moment only. So if your strategy is marriage, you probably have no clue what you are getting yourself into.

    Women are built variously, and it helps if you know that you aren’t likely to find a unicorn. If your mate value is 50 points, you get to build your ideal character from these conflicting available points:

    10 points) sex drive
    10 points) faithfulness
    10 points) rationality
    10 points) femininity
    10 points) fun loving, flexible, open personality
    10 points) easily satisfied
    10 points) funny and flirtatious and sociable
    10 points) likes to stay at home with you
    10 points) smoking hot
    10 points) doesn’t attract too much attention from other men
    10 points) emotionally stable
    10 points) passionate

    You don’t have 120 points to spend, and even if you did, there are no women with 120 points. There are either or trade offs. Basically, you choose madonna or whore. Hot sex or stability.

    Like


  199. @Grace, most women are slutty

    Like


  200. Grace–

    for example, 60%-80% of strippers were sexually abused as children

    I will state with high confidence that this is yet another in the endless string of feminist lies on topics they calculate will generate an emotional response. The trail of feminist lying misused of social science is legion.

    Like


  201. Summary of Grace’s post:

    – Women are sluts: men’s fault

    – Women strippers: men’s fault

    – Everything: men’s fault

    Like


  202. Cuckoldry will have zero takers, statistically speaking. You’ll get your odd nutjob, the kind that’s into self-asphixiation, but other than that, no.

    What WILL happen is total pump-and-dump for EVERY guy. Cuckoldry heralded by women (which naturally it is) just moves EVERY guy into pump-n-dump and that’s it. A nation of Levi Johnsons. Which women would not be happier with.

    I would reckon, that at least 90% of women under 40, and perhaps more, would prefer to have a whole bunch of Levi Johnsons, or Josh Whatevers (the guy who had a girl kill his other girlfriend) and multiple kids by multiples of them, than a boring beta guy. They’d prefer the sex now, with guys actually HOT, (idiot bad boys) than boring commitment which is so 20th Century. Yeah women know they won’t get the Alpha in marriage. They don’t care. They get his kids, and part-time sex. That’s enough.

    What America really needs is for every boy to be taught to be as much like Levi Johnson as possible. The guy seriously is a role model.

    Like


  203. Z-Dg,

    the average woman 30-44 (and thus presumably past peak sexual activity) has had 4 lifetime partners (and 31% of women have had one lifetime partner). This is not slutty unless you are using some sort of weird religious definition.

    Doug1,

    I suggest you look up “childhood sexual abuse effects” on google scholar. You will find a wealth of research by peer-reviewed scientists documenting the relationship between sexual abuse and promiscuity, reckless sexual behavior (including teenage pregnancy and exhibitionism), and prostitution. Sexually abused girls may even sexually mature earlier.

    I find it ironic you accuse me of lying when you haven’t even troubled to do the minimum of research.

    Like


  204. So what’s the point of this post?

    You said this is proof of female hypergamy, but only a few number of men and women are getting any action, with men edging out women by a small amount.

    Of course there’s the likelihood of female underreporting and maybe even male overreporting. Either way, as mentioned, in both sexes the percentages are low.

    So are you really ONLY focusing on the male percentages to point out female hypergamy, because since only a few men and women are having that much sex, then I would say that the rest of us are in the same boat.

    Like


  205. @Grace:

    I guess its all the lying feminists have done in the past that made him dismiss you like that out of hand. I basically do the same, because everything feminists say boils down to men=bad and women= good and all that is wrong with the world is due to men. Facts be damned. Personal responsibility be damned, personal accountability be damned. Human nature be damned. Your science has less credibility than the APGW movement. Its like that with most Progressive i.e Communist causes really.

    I look forward to sending all of you to gulags one day. I’d work you all to death in arctic camps building a trans polar monorail. I’d perhaps allow the few attractive ones to be comfort women for our heroic and victorious forces overseas, but that would be it and only for as long as they were attractive. I think you underestimate how much hatred you have earned for yourselves.

    Like


  206. Montzilla, men should get some kind of award for living in this part of the country. It shouldn’t even be up for debate where the worst women in this country live.

    I have no idea where this whole “nice midwestern girl” thing started, but that time has come and gone. Now you have mostly a bunch of corn fed fatties, who due to the fact that there is nothing else to fuck around here have very high self-esteem. Yes, the South probably has fatter women but at least that is last part of this country to be corrupted by feminism.

    I would put the “I’m fucking hot” complex of your typical beefy midwestern gal up against any other.

    Like


  207. on August 5, 2010 at 1:41 am AGUARDIENTE ANTIOQUEÑO SIN AZUCAR

    Gorbachev:
    And also get rid of no-fault divorce. That has to get right the fuck out

    ah sí … pero noooo, no en eso environment, eso would be muy bad idea. irónicamente, el divorcio no-fault puede ser viewed as a protective measure, porque las cortes make judgments demasiados based on los principios de feminism.

    por ejemplo, imagínate que wifey has just returned de embarrarla con unos de los huevones from the local cantina, así que usted give her a good beatdown.
    with el divorcio por fault, you would probabilmente face worse consecuencias, porque, after el beatdown, you would be caracterizado como an abusive asshole, y la culpa would be assigned to you.

    on the other hand, si las cortes were administrados por lox paixax ANTIOQUEÑOX (hijox de la tierra no xomox de bogo77a!!), then a return al divorcio sin fault would be a better idea.

    Like


  208. Tyrone,
    I basically do the same, because everything feminists say boils down to men=bad and women= good and all that is wrong with the world is due to men.

    You know, I often wonder whether ONLY feminists are guilty of this. Like….isn’t true that the Victorian era and maybe even before that viewed women as these perfect, good beings?

    Like


  209. on August 5, 2010 at 1:51 am AGUARDIENTE ANTIOQUEÑO SIN AZUCAR

    for example, 60%-80% of strippers were sexually abused as children

    ah sí … pero noooo

    la estadística correcta es que 60-80 por ciento de todas las women, no just las strippers, would like la oportunidad to dress up as schoolgirlx y … to be sexually abused por un maestro poderoxo

    although certainly esta estadística podría to be correcta, if you use la definición de “sexually abused” que es favorito de las feministas. according to esta definición, i myself mismo xoy sexually abused cada y every vez que las hotties tratan de abrirme at the bar!!

    Like


  210. This post seems sort of weak, plus the numbers havent changed in about twenty years, see here.

    Like


  211. damn it’s only women who are smugly trying to tear down this post? who would’ve thought!

    Like


  212. on August 5, 2010 at 5:13 am Jack the Ripper

    Stats from Norway, 2-4 years old, made on 35-years olds.

    Men:
    Average number of partners: 12
    Median number of partners: 7

    Women:
    Average number of partners: 9
    Median number of partners: 6

    Distribution of number of sexual partners

    Men:
    1 : 9.9%
    2 : 10.2%
    3-5 : 21.5%
    6-10 : 25.0%
    11+ : 33.4%

    Women:
    1 : 12.7%
    2: 9.5%
    3-5: 23.4%
    6-10: 27.4%
    11+ : 27.1%

    Like


  213. on August 5, 2010 at 5:19 am Jack the Ripper

    I’d agree that most women are not that slutty. If they were, they would have fucked 100+ considering what’s available to them. In the lower brackets you have plenty of hot women who are just very picky or rarely or never do casual sex.

    These stats also tells that a third or so of men are doing decently.

    Of course, the really players with 100+ are probably only 5% or less.

    The 50% of men with 4 partners or less are beta like – they would obviously have liked to bang more, but haven’t been able to.

    Like


  214. on August 5, 2010 at 5:21 am Jack the Ripper

    Reference – it’s in Norwegian, but you’ll recognize the numbers.

    http://www.fhi.no/dav/917F03B512B94037B579FDF6F4631EF5.pdf

    Like


  215. on August 5, 2010 at 6:02 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    Jack —

    Stats from Norway, 2-4 years old, made on 35-years olds.
    The
    Men:
    Average number of partners: 12
    Median number of partners: 7

    Women:
    Average number of partners: 9
    Median number of partners: 6

    The “average” numbers should be equal, unless there are vastly more/fewer men than women. Therefore, the differential between the male figure (12) and the female figure (9) gives some indication of how much the respondents are stretching the truth. (Or, in the case of the female respondents, tightening up the truth. Ha ha.)

    Also, if there’s more older man / younger woman sex than there is younger man / older woman sex — which I think is a reasonable assumption — then the women’s average should actually be higher than the men’s average, thus indicating an even higher BS factor.

    If you skew the numbers appropriately, inflating the women’s figures and/or deflating the men’s figures by an appropriate constant factor, then the distributions actually look strikingly similar.
    Therefore, Jack, I’m not sure which side you’re on here, or even whether you’re on a side — you just posted a bunch of numbers — but your figures are pretty strong evidence against the thesis of this post.

    Oh, and, this:
    The 50% of men with 4 partners or less are beta like – they would obviously have liked to bang more, but haven’t been able to

    I feel you, dude, but I’ve actually met my share of low-libido-type guys who actually had no interest in casual sex. It just wasn’t even on their radar.

    Like


  216. on August 5, 2010 at 6:09 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    The “average” numbers should be equal, unless there are vastly more/fewer men than women

    Shit, I just realized that this is wrong — I was thinking of the total # of encounters, not the total # of partners. The total # of partners could be different.

    My observation about the older man / younger woman factor still stands, though. Even if the debauchery is the same on both sides, women that are X years old should report more sexual partners than should men who are X years old.

    Like


  217. I remember having arguments with liberal woman about the Clinton Monica Lewinsky broo-hah-hah, and being amazed at the argument that oral sex was not really sex.

    At the TIME, I merely thought that it was rationalization for the sake of ideological partisanship.

    Little did I know that there was a much more personal stake to the argument for them.

    Jeez, I REALLY wish this blog had existed at least 10 years ago…

    Like


  218. OT:

    Legalized gay marriage: Good, bad, or no affect on nascent PUAs? I’m leaning towards no effect.

    Like


  219. on August 5, 2010 at 7:53 am Jack the Ripper

    No, you are right – the average number should be equal.

    So yeah, a bit bullshitting there probably is (men inflating it, women deflating it – so we could conclude it is somewhere between 9 and 12, anyhow), though I think men have more sex abroad which would skew the number.

    And yeah, I am somewhat arguing against the thesis of the board. I think the lays are somewhat more evenly divided amongst men, and I do not think most women are that slutty (which the average numbers here would confirm).

    Like


  220. doug

    i will always respectfully disagree with your belief that women should marry, serve, love, fuck, care for, bear kids with, respect, adore, emotionally support and submit to men who INSIST openly that they are just going to cheat no matter what and the woman just has to accept it and suck it up. it has been since women came to believe this that female infielity has shot through the roof, and please don’t tell me anglosphere women just always accepted this–they most certainly did not. even if men did cheat as their wives aged it was hidden and women were much more naive, the men made the women FEEL like they were faithful. so few people understand that hypocrisy is the backbone of civilization, thats why they love to expose the seamy underbelly of golden eras like the 50sand victorian times–they don’t understand the importance of maintaining the ironclad APPEARANCE of the best possible traits while allowing for the release of man’s worst nature on the sly. this same way they don’t understand the role of exaggerated politeness in male dominated societies as peacekeeping–it smacks of “phoniness” to civilization destroying “authenticity” mongers like cultural leftists

    much as fidelity and femininity needs restored on my side of the aisle–honor needs restored on your guys side or things can never be righted between the sexes

    Like


  221. “much as fidelity and femininity needs restored on my side of the aisle–honor needs restored on your guys side or things can never be righted between the sexes”

    Correct.

    There are good men–I know–but they may not be serving this site.

    Like


  222. well said dana. I would very likely forgive my husband if I found out he was unfaithful to me, for a lot of reasons. In fact, I think my family would encourage me to do so although it would be better if they never found out about it. Giving my approval to infidelity beforehand just seems weird. I don’t understand open relationships, they don’t seem romantic to me. If you are going to be unfaithful I would guess your wife really doesn’t want to know about it. Hypocrisy does serve a purpose.

    Like


  223. Besides all this sexual freedom really isn’t all that sexy anyway.

    Like


  224. on August 5, 2010 at 8:50 am unlearning genius

    “Editor: The stats prove the post’s point. Just because there is a smaller minority of women slutting it up doesn’t mean there isn’t a small minority of men with access to lots of poon. The slutty women aren’t necessarily sleeping with those 10% of alpha men. More likely, the alpha men are sharing the wealth among many women, slut to non-slut.

    If anything, a smaller group of slutty women indicates that women are more averse to sleeping around than men.]”

    Actually Roissy is right on the mark on this one. If you model sexual relationships as a scale free small world network .. you will see that a few guys and few girls slut it up big time and everybody else basically gets not much .. so the sluttiest girls and alphaest guys do all the fucking .. so mostly it will be among themselves .. but ocassionally others enter and leave ..

    also just as in a network the more partners you have the higher your odds of getting even more partners..

    Like


  225. on August 5, 2010 at 8:56 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    No, you are right – the average number should be equal

    Yeah, OK, I was right the first time. Every time you add a new partner combination, it adds 1/N to the average number of partners on each side.

    I was just testing you, with that other post. Heh.

    But remember that it shouldn’t be equal — it should be somewhat higher on the women’s end, depending on the average age difference between sex partners, since the survey deals only with one specific age of respondents (i.e., 35).

    Like


  226. on August 5, 2010 at 9:04 am Jack the Ripper

    Epoxytocin No. 87:

    True, but at 35 I think it has pretty much evened out.

    If it was done on 20 year olds, the average should definitely be higher for girls, but not so much at 35 me thinks. 30 year old women are not screwing 50 year old men to the degree 20 year old girls are screwing 30 year old guys.

    Anyhow, the stats speak for itself. One third of guys have at least banged 11 chicks, which is more than twice the median.

    Like


  227. on August 5, 2010 at 9:15 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    This whole board needs to stop sucking Silvio Berlusconi’s cock so hard — jesus aitch christ, you guys are going to start pulling the contents of his rectum out through his urethra. It’s not like Berlusconi is pulling any more than, say, JFK did — and his exploits are a lot less impressive than JFK’s, given that he lives in a country where all that is a lot more OK than it is in anglosphere countries.

    Diaboli, in your link, the bitch who’s pictured in lingerie looks completely like a man.

    Like


  228. Epoxytocin No. 87:

    I don’t understand the obsession with Berlusconi, either. As far as I know, most of his “conquests” are with professionals–how is that an example of alpha game? Also, it’s not like he’s doing this while his wife dutifully stands by his side, nor is he managing some harem of sexy ladies. And it’s not like Italy is exactly in the running for superpower of the century, either.

    Like


  229. @Esteri and @ Epoxytocin No. 87 &

    LOL. Agreed. They are hookers and not even hot hookers and he couldn’t keep his wife, even in Italy.

    As for anyone who says Berlusconi popular in Italy, er, he owns half the media. That’s probably the most alpha thing about him.

    Like


  230. Oh. I always thought it was half, that shows what I get for watching the BBC & Italian tv.

    But seems like it could be closer to 90%
    http://blog.soros.org/2010/03/berlusconis-chilling-effect-on-italian-media/

    Like


  231. I’m not super impressed with Berlusconi, although he does seem like he is likable. Possibly the guys on here admire him so much because he is an unrepentant womanizer which is hard to get away with in a feminized society. Personally I’m not all that upset that we hold our politicians to a higher standard in this country, though.

    Like


  232. “Legalized gay marriage: Good, bad, or no affect on nascent PUAs? I’m leaning towards no effect.”

    The decision will be overturned anyway. One judge in California doesn’t decide for the entire country. This is another chapter in the “crisis of consent” saga that’s bringing America to a boil. And when the water spills over, it will be our enlightened elites who get scalded.

    As for whether it is “good or bad”, it’s brought to you by the same people who brought you all the other social “innovations” of the last 40 years, so draw the appropriate conclusion as to its desirability.

    Like


  233. @Laura

    Men would be much more forgiving w/regard to female hypergamy if women actually owned it. It’s the self-delusions and rationalizations that lead to what amount to lies that piss guys off, because most of us here have bought those lies at one point or another. Such a blatant lack of self-awareness. Instead we get the typical responses like, “not all women are like that, I’m different,” or “only low-quality women are like that”. The longer a guy believes that shit, the more bitter he’ll be when he learns the truth.

    Men, on the other hand, are pretty open about their preferences. We openly acknowledge that we value looks over everything else. We’re also vilified for it.

    I don’t know…to me, the truer it is, the scarier the implications. I don’t LIKE the idea that the gross majority of women are totally unaware of their true nature and live in a delusion. I’d feel better knowing that they know the truth and are just trying to avoid censure for it.

    Like


  234. @Sox

    Interesting comment. I’m quite curious on it.

    According to Wikipedia
    “Hypergamy (colloquially referred to as marrying up) is the act or practice of seeking a spouse of equal or higher socioeconomic status, or caste status than oneself”

    Emphasis mine.

    How many women do you know who deny that they would ideally like to marry someone who is the same or higher socioeconomic status than themselves?
    Wouldn’t seeking to do anything else be seeking to marry ‘beneath’ them?

    In Disney, doesn’t the frog always turns in to a prince, never into an agricultural worker?

    Like


  235. Note: I made this comment over at Cucks in response to an interesting post of his, but want to copy it over to here as well:

    http://glpiggy.wordpress.com/2010/08/03/taking-the-a-out-of-pua/#comment-3665

    Excellent piece. You’re touching on something very important here, and have many very interesting insights into how the artistry of game is being lost sight of, in the pursuit of maximum advantage in scoring maximum high numbers of acceptably hot girls. My objections to the way Roissy and it seems most other PUAs regard gaming girls is somewhat different, though strongly overlapping.

    My objection (and this has been in the back of my mind for a long time) is that even once the skills are acquired and internalized as natural game, Roissy largely advocates that one’s number count of hot chicks is really the be all and end all object of life – though with a nod to periods of being in love. Everything else is a means to that end and should be evaluated on a cost benefit basis in its utility for that purpose. That includes the type of work one does or does next, even male friends it seems, activities one likes to do, any recreational intellectual pursuits, and even vacations as well. It’s as though Roissy’s taken an explanation a number of evolutionary psychologists have given as to what’s behind some observed gender differences, and used it as the central prescriptive of his life. Sow the maximum number of seed with hot chicks as is humanely possible. To me that’s whacked. It feels like a serious coke addiction after awhile, or being addicted to internet porn. I think George Clooney has probably scored fewer hot chicks than Mystery — though with a much hotter average, and a much more varied life. (Though without this single minded motivation, we wouldn’t have in Roissy such an endlessly insightful teacher of game and gender realism, most likely. Well that DOES create another purpose, doesn’t it?)

    Take a greater beta who has laid a few girls but usually only after a considerably drawn out courtship while often feeling like he had to jump through hoops, with a girl who if he was being perfectly honest he liked but never really loved and vice versa, cause she was what he could get to get laid and she was minimally hot enough for him. I can well understand his feeling a real urge to go on a game notch numbers splurge, when and if he has honed his skills. That will make his game even more natural for him. That’s what I did when I taught game to myself in high school from observing those naturally really good at it and analyzing my own successes and failures. After some high school successes that’s what I did in college and law school. And I can understand returning to that from time to time. I’ve done that too.

    But it seems to me for most men, most horny high sex drive men, the goal of game should ultimately be to release yourself from the iron grip of pussy over you, rather than let it increase that grip. Not by meditating away the coil of such earthly desires, but by being able to quite easily get those desires satisfied. Perhaps as well during single periods, by having a back up f*ck buddy on tap for convenience. One goal should be that when you move to an exclusive relationship it only be a real love one, rather than a kidding yourself ‘cause you’re so thirsty one. ‘Cause you were in no pussy desert in the meantime, but in a singles pussy oasis. It should be not clutching onto her and hence doing her bidding, and so letting her gain hand and control as her desire dissolves away, but being willing to let her go; as you relationship game her to maintain hand over her, from that frame.

    The goal as well should be to flirt with the hot cashier or barista or other person you bump into in day to day life, effortlessly just for the fun of it whether in a relationship or not, getting her number if you want but only if you do. It should be the ready ability to opportunistically chat up hot girls that life puts before you, rather than structuring your life around maximizing locations and times to hang out to try to score. The goal should be living with pussy on demand, almost, even when not in a relationship, while you go about your challenging, rewarding and fun life, rather than having your life controlled by the compulsion to drive your notch count ever higher, in an endless devotion of hours and money to the chase.

    Contrary to Roissy I think most men do and should have goals in life other than attracting a hot top quality mate or proving to themselves they readily can, and sowing wild oats as well. Until that ability is secured it does rank right up there after survival on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, and he’s right. But once that ability’s secured, different pussy maximization to the exclusion of all else, is a compulsive addiction; particularly in an age of birth control, and failing that near ruinous child support=alimony. It’s not like you’re gonna sow Genghis Khan’s level of seeds into fertile wombs in contemporary America if you’ve got anything to lose.

    The object of game as taught by Roissy is indeed to game hot girls successfully so that no one woman can get mastery over you. You’ve got options. But ironically the aggregate of hot girls, the compulsion to always up the notch count of hotties, does continue to have hand over Roissy and most PUA’s who write for the community. Game should be used to have easy mastery over hot pussy in variety as wanted, or in mutual strong love as wanted, rather than having pussy continue to rule over you, just in a different way.

    If we can achieve that, then we’ve really achieved an artistry level of game.

    Like


  236. Lily,
    I think most women would be honest about the fact that they prefer men they perceive as being higher status than them. Higher status can mean different things to different people.

    Like


  237. Hypergamy might also explain why women like to lose if they ever have to compete with a man for something. We like it when you’re better than we are.

    Like


  238. Lily,

    Disney is the issue. Men are giving women that suite of traits only to realize that they’re screwing themselves over if they haven’t established their alpha-cred first (or come from a position of power). In real life, the Disney villains would be stealing all the princesses away by the dozen.

    The hypergamy we discuss here isn’t strictly related to socio-economic status- there are other indicators, psycho-social dominance seeming to be the most telling. That’s why we have white-knighting-disney-loving-beta-types who could be pretty wealthy and popular being supplanted by thugs from a “lower caste”. Hypergamy —> dominance, and many women are VERY hesitant to admit that what turns them on a) runs counter to their disney upbringing and b) often contains the traits most commonly seen in the dark triad.

    Like


  239. @Laura
    Yes, you’re right, it means different to different people. Actually I found the description as ‘higher’ status’ (without the equal or in front of the higher or status without socioeconomic in front of it) quite emotive.

    I’m actually really baffled by this thinking as expressed by Sox (and I’ve seen hints of it elsewhere) that women don’t admit that they want to marry someone of the same or higher socioeconomic status. And that all these women are unaware of their ‘true nature’. Please.

    Where I come from, all the women would admit it. You want to marry the best fit for you (that you can get) out of the guys after the filter. But it’s not unique to women, guys do it too.
    Sure both genders may have flings with people who don’t pass the filter, but hypergamy relates to marriage.

    I just can’t imagine any woman I know if asked about it replying with “not all women are like that, I’m different,” or “only low-quality women are like that”.

    Though I can imagine if someone said ‘all women cared about was money’ or ‘all women are goldiggers’ or ‘all women are whores’ that they may well be more likely to answer like that.

    Like


  240. We’re not talking about marriage though, despite the fact that it doesn’t fit the wikipedia definition.

    A woman may never want to marry that agricultural worker, but if he’s got Game, she’ll sleep with him right under the princes’ nose.

    Sure, men are guilty of this to an extent, but they’re much quicker to settle.

    Like


  241. pupu–

    “1. if you can count the number of your sexual partners in one hand, you are not promiscuous

    2. if one hand is not enough, but two hands are, you are somewhat promiscuous

    3. if two hands are not enough, but hands and feet together are, you are promiscuous but not wild

    4. if hands and foot together are still not enough, you know you belong to the wildest top 10 percent”

    –Brilliant! 🙂

    Like


  242. @Sox

    I used that definition of hypergamy as a woman who recently posted on here saying aren’t the men on here hypergamous in their way because they want to have sex with better looking women and she was promptly told off for not ‘understanding’ what the term meant.

    I don’t think you should redefine words. What you’re talking about is different.
    And it really isn’t anything new.

    Like


  243. Riddle me this?

    Why do some guys lament not getting any “poon” and then when they finally do they call the girl a whore or a slut and then you wonder why women don’t want to give it up?

    So, if you are “getting some” she is automatically a skank and if you are not she is a stuck up bitch?

    Am I missing something in this contradiction in terms?

    Like


  244. “If we can achieve that, then we’ve really achieved an artistry level of game.”

    To be direct, game is about POWER – in a good way.

    Like


  245. “A woman may never want to marry that agricultural worker, but if he’s got Game, she’ll sleep with him right under the princes’ nose.

    Is your objection that she
    1. the woman might have sex with the agricultural worker (either because he’s hot or had some charisma which turned her on)
    or
    2.she cheated on the prince (I’m asking as she may have had sex with the worker before she met the prince)

    Oh maybe your objection is the agricultural worker may not never know he had a chance with having sex with the woman because his family and friends never told him he could and the village voice newspaper didn’t have a guest column by Neil Strauss.

    So he ‘settled’ by marrying the the milkmaid.

    Aww, what a sad story.

    What a shame they didn’t have some good books Lady Chatterley’s Lover at their local library. Must have been that damned prince and his budget cutting.

    Like


  246. “So, if you are “getting some” she is automatically a skank and if you are not she is a stuck up bitch?

    Am I missing something in this contradiction in terms?”

    where’s the contradiction?

    Like


  247. Lily—

    Let me explain hypergamy to you and sox both. And many others here who often get it muddled.

    The way Roissy and evolutionary psychologists use hypergamy is slightly different from the broader public dictionary definition, though it’s based on that and incorporates that core. Female hypergamy is used as the dyad to male polygamy, in substitution for monogamy. That is, it’s not that males are naturally by instinct polygamous and females monogamous; rather it’s that males are polygamous and females are hypergamous. American culture preaches girls are naturally monogamous and that if anything breaks that on her side in a marriage, it must necessarily be the husband’s fault, in all normal cases. That’s one of the crocks guys realize after reading here.

    What’s meant by hypergamous here is that yeah one she’s made her choice she’s naturally inclined to be monogamous with him and not seek simultaneous relationships with two other guys. That is until someone notably better comes along and woes her, in which case she’s hypergamously likely to go off a begin a new serial monogamy with new better guy. This is refined by saying if it really was or became a love bonded match, she’s not likely to have eyes for another for a 2 to 4 year period from time of first deep bonding, but then she might. That is unless culture or strong social rules and sanctions or child raising responsibilities preclude her from starting down that road. Once she does tread down it, for most women it’s hard to continue her strong love bond with her husband, although she may be able to continue in a loving close friendship and partnership. Continued sex with him or anyway enthusiastic sex is the rub.

    There’s a second difference in the way Roissy uses hypergamous from that of the dictionary. Dictionaries talk about mating up in status and money. Roissy talks about the criteria in order for girls regarding guys: status, game, looks, money. I think that’s right for young girls who feel secure about money for one reason or another but for 25 and older in the US and probably earlier on the continent and elsewhere one should flip the places of male looks with money.

    (He leaves out such things as loving, compatibility, easy to live with, faithfulness and good with children, as criteria since he’s focused on gina tingle, hot pickup attractors, not marriage considerations. When he does talk about those things he tends to suggest they’re beta qualities and necessarily, rather than just usually, a trade off with degree of alpha gina tingles. I think that’s wrong headed and that two scales are need, the alpha scale and the mate/dad scale.)

    The last thing is to ask who’s doing the hypergamous deciding. Dictionaries have in mind the way it happens in most societies and in ours historically, and that’s by the parents and perhaps other family in an arranged marriage, with some input only from the girl. Roissy has in mind a US environment in which the girl is hypergamous entirely on her own, with friends’ input. Besides he’s talking pickup, hookup, fling kinds of hypergamy, not the marriage sort.

    Hope that clears some things up.

    Like


  248. Doug-

    “The object of game as taught by Roissy is indeed to game hot girls successfully so that no one woman can get mastery over you. You’ve got options. But ironically the aggregate of hot girls, the compulsion to always up the notch count of hotties, does continue to have hand over Roissy and most PUA’s who write for the community. Game should be used to have easy mastery over hot pussy in variety as wanted, or in mutual strong love as wanted, rather than having pussy continue to rule over you, just in a different way.

    If we can achieve that, then we’ve really achieved an artistry level of game.”

    –Again, agreed. Game is relevant to all types of relationships/needs with the opposite sex. There is a grouping of men, just under the male slut category that holds sexiest alphas that don’t whore around (not judging those that do, just a personal preference). These men are the Crème de la Crème. Alphas who can love and can maintain long terms. They are very good company as a result of being alpha in character, whether innate or self-made.

    Like


  249. Riddle me this.

    Am I missing something in this contradiction in terms?

    Yes. And the contradiction is only in your red herring terms.

    Like


  250. G-d damn, so many Yank women are simply nasty. I mean, Canadian women are nice and thin but are probably bigger feminist bitches, especially in Toronto and Vancouver.

    Like


  251. Laura

    “Hypergamy might also explain why women like to lose if they ever have to compete with a man for something. We like it when you’re better than we are.”

    what? getting beaten by a man for whom a woman doesn’t have hypergamous instincts for, is, to put it mildly, an abhorrence.

    Like


  252. “G-d damn, so many Yank women are simply nasty. I mean, Canadian women are nice and thin but are probably bigger feminist bitches, especially in Toronto and Vancouver.”

    Add quebec
    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/760692–quebec-judge-calls-marc-lepine-blogger-troubling

    Like


  253. @namae nanka
    Laura
    “Hypergamy might also explain why women like to lose if they ever have to compete with a man for something. We like it when you’re better than we are.”
    what? getting beaten by a man for whom a woman doesn’t have hypergamous instincts for, is, to put it mildly, an abhorrence.
    Laura, what are you smoking?

    Like


  254. @Sox
    @What
    @Laura

    Men would be much more forgiving w/regard to female hypergamy if women actually owned it. It’s the self-delusions and rationalizations that lead to what amount to lies that piss guys off, because most of us here have bought those lies at one point or another. Such a blatant lack of self-awareness. Instead we get the typical responses like, “not all women are like that, I’m different,” or “only low-quality women are like that”. The longer a guy believes that shit, the more bitter he’ll be when he learns the truth.

    What makes me angry, as a man, is how women dissimulate and effectively lie because they don’t understand their own behavior. The entire cultural construction, the substructure of what we understand as female behavior, is a lie. What women do – why women do it – how women do it – it’s all a lie.

    The problem is, they lie to themselves and make excuses. This extends to whole fields of endeavor – and women rationalize and make excuses and refuse responsibility like champions. This includes in workplaces, which is why I suspect they like credentialism and middle-management, so that buck-passing is easiest. Their social order is different – its about perceptions and feelings.

    Men are different. We’re polygamous – check. We’re selfish – check. We’re often emotional and chest-beating – check.

    We *ADMIT* these things, our culture owns it, women remind us of it all the time. Yet the harsh, brutal reality of the female world is off-limits because women don’t even realize it.

    That’s what pisses me off. And other men. It’s the lies.

    You women don’t understand this, because you don’t see it as a huge, massive cultural lie that deceives men (and women) and gives women a pass for their “bad” behavior, while men are strung up for their basic natures.

    This is why the feminization of the world is a bad thing. By all acknowledged standards, men are more honest, more straightforward, have less guile and rationalize much less.

    Why?

    We don’t fool ourselves about ourselves.

    Like


  255. @Original JB

    “Legalized gay marriage: Good, bad, or no affect on nascent PUAs? I’m leaning towards no effect.”

    As for whether it is “good or bad”, it’s brought to you by the same people who brought you all the other social “innovations” of the last 40 years, so draw the appropriate conclusion as to its desirability.

    This is irrelevant to everyone. Why? It directly affects a tiny percentage of people. The institution of marriage has been destroyed by white-knighting conservatives and marxist feminists. In the second case, it was deliberate – the old idea of marriage was anathema to them. They set out to dismantle and undermine any concept of marriage, and have succeeded.

    Conservatives have destroyed marriage by white-knighting and reducing men to penury. They’re as much at fault for the destruction of marriage as anyone.

    And we’re going to obsess about whether or not gay people are going to be able to ride this dead horse?

    Please. A non-issue bigger than this has never been found.

    Like


  256. Median number of male sexual partners in lifetime, for women 25-44 years of age, 2002: 3.8

    How can this be? To get the median, you would sort all women from fewest to most partners, and pick the value of the middle woman.

    Unless they happened to hit a woman in the middle who did three guys and a large midget, something funny is going on here. Are they averaging medians? Or taking the median of averages? There must have been an averaging operation in the process to get something other than a whole number of partners. The data could still be legit, but as presented it doesn’t make sense.

    Like


  257. “I just don’t understand why men aren’t more sympathetic to women because of their hypergamous nature. It’s lousy to know the man you love the best is also loved by most of your pretty girlfriends and many others. We know we’re interchangeable for the most part. I’ve spent so many nights drinking wine, listening to tortured love songs and thinking about someone I’ll never be with. It isn’t that much fun for us either.”

    I can understand that, but keep in mind all the guys who can’t get ANY female attention. They feel like a complete genetic loser instead of just unlucky in the high stakes game of love. Also, all men want to by polygimous, so even if you get a good women, a man is never satisfied. The only way for a man to be sexually content is to be able to have sex with any women he sees, and the only way for a women to be sexually content is to monopolize the best man she sees, but at least she knows she isn’t at the bottom of the totem pole if this doesn’t happen, just not the top. Men who get no play think of themselves as completely worthless, not even on the totem pole.

    Guys have it worse.

    “Well put it like this no man has ever whipped my ass by himself. So think caveman times and my ability to kill almost any other guy. Even in army I could physically beat everyone I worked with. Even in iraq I could pysically beat everyone I worked with.”

    I’m a bit of a scrapper myself, although I’ve gotten shit for talking about it sometimes on blogs. The whole internet tough guy thing. I can’t help it I’m a badass in real life. People who want to hate on people who grew up enjoying fighting, ignore this self agrandizing ego masturbation.

    Do you mind if I ask you your stats:

    Mine are:

    25 street fights 80ish% win record
    6′ 0”
    220 pounds (fighting weight about 200, I’ve let myself go)
    Training: Gymnastics, wrestling, Tang Soo Do, kickboxing, Mixed martial arts under Adam and Rory Singer, Jeet Kune Do (and studied most of Bruce Lee’s books), Brazillian Jiu Jitsu with Alliance gyms

    I have shitty cardiovascular, but when I win a fight its from overwhelming the opponent early. I have quick hands and punch hard and can take a punch. No ground fights ever go the distance on the street so I don’t know how those would play out, but I can safely grapple a bigger guy long enough for someone to intervene if I need to. Of course, when someone intervenes on the other guys behalf, I’ve gotten myself kicked in the head a few times.

    Best fight ever: I successfully fought off about 5 guys and sent one to the hospital. I got arrested because the police officer refused to believe that “they” jumped “me” since I didn’t have a scratch on me. I also made a guy shit on himself once when I put him in a guillotine and told him he was going to die. I have rage issues, but I like it.

    Like


  258. BTW: Kicking peoples ass never got me laid…I take that back, it did make a few girls gina’s tingle, but I was already dating them. I don’t think being a badass counts for much anymore unless your making money with it, ie. thug, enforcer, professional fighter. Its all about the money.

    Like


  259. “What makes me angry, as a man, is how women dissimulate and effectively lie because they don’t understand their own behavior. The entire cultural construction, the substructure of what we understand as female behavior, is a lie. What women do – why women do it – how women do it – it’s all a lie.

    The problem is, they lie to themselves and make excuses. This extends to whole fields of endeavor – and women rationalize and make excuses and refuse responsibility like champions. This includes in workplaces, which is why I suspect they like credentialism and middle-management, so that buck-passing is easiest. Their social order is different – its about perceptions and feelings.”

    +10

    Well said. Nailed it.

    Like


  260. Re: Alpha/beta and “settling”

    Since we’re airing our big picture philosophical differences with CR and PUA’s generally, I thought I’d note a key difference of mine regarding women settling for “betas”. For background, see my previous posts on this thread to Laura, and Gorb’s response.

    My position can be summed up as this: for women, it isn’t alpha or nothing. In fact, having a relationship is more important than having the alpha. The fact that the vast vast majority of women consider, date and marry men that aren’t the absolute top dog alpha is not an indication that they are “settling” in any kind of negative way. It can be argued semantically that anyone agreeing to a relationship with anything less than their absolute top choice is settling, but as described in posts between Laura and I, humans do this naturally as part of normal socialization. Subjectively, the vast majority of humans do not perceive it as settling at all when they end up with someone fairly close to them in dating market value.

    That doesn’t mean that a negative form of settling doesn’t happen. There are gold diggers, single mothers acting out of desperation, and other examples of women who subjectively do feel that they are settling for something significantly less than their market value. And I agree whole-heartedly with Gorb that this is a bad thing and likely to lead to an unhappy end.

    The point I want to emphasize is that there is a fairly wide latitude of behavior, looks, status, income, occupation, personality type that women will be attracted to in men. Beta/herb demasculating behavior is a real pitfall, and it should be avoided, but commentators often give the impression that the path of being alpha is a narrow one. It really isn’t. Gorb takes a nuanced view, stating that it isn’t alpha or nothing, but that it is something like top 10% or nothing. This may be true in the population as a whole, but if you’ve got a high school diploma, a full time job, a house, a car, average looks, healthy body, you are already pretty close to the top 20% anyway.

    The dating arena is truly a marketplace: there is a spectrum of value, and buyers and sellers for almost every value. Every participant should seek to maximize their value, and an understanding of game is beneficial to men in this regard. Every participant should avoid value-damaging beta/herb behavior. Marriage is not a refuge. Maintaining dominant frame (hand) is essential. But its not dominant, bad boy alpha or nothing for the vast majority of women. It is not inconsistent to be a man and to be yourself. Maximize what you’ve got, and don’t be a pussy. Confidently be yourself. You will find a buyer for what you’re selling.

    Like


  261. Barely interesting short story, but I’m bored.

    I’m a warehouse manager and one of the warehouse workers under me is an ex-drug dealer who used to move some serious weight. Well, me and him talk about sex, drugs, and fighting and shit, and because he has always juggled quality pussy his whole life, I asked him:

    “You know I was a Niceguy for most of my life and struggled with women, right?”

    “Yeah man.”

    “So were you a badboy because you knew it would get you laid alot, or was that just how you were?”

    “Thats just how I was. I just didn’t give a shit. I never thought about it or anything.”

    “So do you feel like its unfair that all the hot girls got with your type instead of the Niceguys?”

    “Yeah man. That seems pretty unfair.”

    Now this is someone who is in the process of turning his life around. He was basically like, “It was time to go straight or end up dead or in jail.” And by straight, he means getting a job and only selling drugs on the side. Now, I can say my life has probably worked out better than his when looking at our current situations in life, both around 30, but still, my notch count will never equal his and it just reminds me of all the bullshit about the mating game. He’s actually an incredibly smart guy (He’s told me about some pretty impressive scams), but he has a temper. If school dealt with masculinity and channeled aggression appropriately, he might of been a very successful legit businessman. If I we could all do it over again knowing what we know now…….would he and I trade places?

    Like


  262. on August 5, 2010 at 3:02 pm gunslingergregi

    ”””””””Um, … killing the bitch was a little off the menu. I don’t think I want that to start up again. Some advances in the last 500 years have been actual improvements.

    Actually, I blame myself: I made the mistake of listening to my wife (what she said she wanted), listening to other people, and listening to my culture. Only one friend told me to get the hell away from her. And no man told me how women really work, just how mysterious they were. The counselor blamed me for everything, so I became even more of a mangina. That drove her away faster.

    She was incredibly frustrated.

    So: The fault with Betas lies entirely with the Betas for being ignorant or unwilling to change.

    On the other hand, her family loved me and there’s no way she could rape me in court. We split everything 50-50, no alimony, and no kids, so it was all good. One year and done. I moved out of state, then out of the damned country.

    I tell you: Murder is unnecessary. Living well is the best revenge.
    ””””””””””””””

    Well no not in that case. That was a woman excercising her free will and doing something diferent. I couldn’t justify killing a chick just because she chose not to be with me only if she wanted to disrespect me and our past love by trying to enslave me against my will.

    ””””So: The fault with Betas lies entirely with the Betas for being ignorant or unwilling to change.”””’

    How is it your fault that she excercised free will to live her life how she wanted?

    The fault lies in an institution that is unrealistic about human behavior.

    50 percent of marriages don’t work out.

    Men blame themselves for it.
    But it is just a fact of life.
    It hurts to fail at something you wanted to do enough.
    But yea the guys like the ones I have met my whole life in army and in the shit job I worked at the warhouse are being mass punished for something that is just a normal thing. Relationships don’t work out and people move on.
    It hurts but no biggie. Just life.
    Except in us they got to put the govs and lawyers noses into every fucking little thing.

    Here is the problem for most men.
    They look at the woman as being the prize and it is their responsability to keep her happy or whatever or there responsibility if she excercises free will.
    It is not and you cannot stop her from excercising free will. She is a human being with that right.

    Why I come up with a list of a womans responsibilities before marriage that they need to meet. Because I do not just expect them to provide pussy and that is all. I expect them to provide a lot and I tell them what I expect.

    First one did not meet her responsibility of working and us being able to save her paycheck.
    She failed in her responsibility.

    Second one I was allowed to have other pussy.
    So the fact that she now wants to change those rules somewhat is her failure in her responsibility. I can choose to excercise free will and change some aspect if I choose to or I can not. But she is the one that has deviated initially from the line. I can choose to see this as a dealbreaker or I can choose to do whatever the fuck I want because I am a free man.

    Woman set no preconditions on me before marriage.
    Isn’t that interesting. It is to me.

    Therefore it is not my responsibility to make them fucking change their mind.
    They have a choice if they do not like the rules to leave.

    The key is to not have the woman get away with not having any responsibility in the marriage so that she can then only blame you for not doing yours because it is true if you hold her responsible for nothing then you are responsible for everything but that is only if you think woman are children who have no free will.

    I believe woman are adults and can be responsible for their own actions be they bad or good.

    ””””’She was incredibly frustrated.”””

    She was only incredibally frustrated because she was incredibly frustrated. Get it?

    Say it with me.

    Woman are human beings.
    Woman over 18 are adult human beings.
    Woman can make pacts and keep them or face consequences just like a man.
    Woman can be held responsible for their actions.
    Everything that happens to woman is not the fault of a man.
    Every bad thing woman do is not because a man made them.

    Like


  263. LOL. I was just talking with my warehouse helper and I told him he should be an MRA and help fight against the feminsts, and he said:

    “I’ve done my part. I’ve cum inside them and then told them they ain’t shit.”

    I said “Unlike you, I’ve still got a score to settle.”, so he replied:

    “Oh, my works not done yet.”

    The guy is a natural Alpha.

    Like


  264. on August 5, 2010 at 3:29 pm Stud Dynamite

    late to the party, but Sidewinder, don’t buy this Laura’s hypergamy stuff. It’s all very fluid and relative, sometimes I’m on top of (pussy) world and beta friends are asking “how do you do it, man” and sometimes I feel like shit and avert eye contact myself. Just play the field, bring out the inner bad girl in them and be golden. Here, have an epiphany:

    same man, great actor. To be the guy women are attracted to all you need is game basics and *practice*.

    Laura – it never happened to you? You spot the guy you and everyone else is “attracted to” and then he whips out a big beta happy-to-be-here smile and attraction is over?

    Like


  265. on August 5, 2010 at 3:37 pm gunslingergregi

    ”””””””on August 5, 2010 at 3:07 pm Jabberwocky
    LOL. I was just talking with my warehouse helper and I told him he should be an MRA and help fight against the feminsts, and he said:

    “I’ve done my part. I’ve cum inside them and then told them they ain’t shit.”

    I said “Unlike you, I’ve still got a score to settle.”, so he replied:

    “Oh, my works not done yet.”

    The guy is a natural Alpha.””””

    Yea but I bet he can’t load 1600 boxes and 58 pallets a day into 5 to 7 trucks from back to front floor to ceiling and puzzle boxed together with almost 0 airspace in trailer like I can. he he he

    Don’t worry nobody else I worked with could either.
    It is why they made me a trainer and I had to retrain everyone that the top dude trained because he was only faster because he half loaded trucks he he he
    Still a fast mutherfucker but not correct fast motherfucker.

    It is kind of amazing sometimes what the human body can do though. I mean I was loading semi trailers full in 7 and half hours by hand for gods sake coming off conveyor but convetor only went halfway down truck.

    Kind of like with pussy. I always fucking want to be the best at whatever I do.

    I want to fuck the best.

    I want to have the best relationship.

    I have to have the best life.

    I have want to have stayed in the best hotel with the best fucking room.

    Now that I am raising a son I want to be the best at that too.

    Because life is just too shitty to accept anything less than the best and actually be worth living.

    Like


  266. on August 5, 2010 at 3:38 pm Stud Dynamite

    more so, I’m starting to think the whole “absolute top dog alpha” worship is just some inner insecurities – there must be these mythical top dog alphas who live the happy life you dream about. Nobody’s that f’n alpha. You spit on the street people will think you’re a thug, while you still might be (and likely are) a big pussy inside. You sit in a catapult pose in a meeting – you’re a dominant boss… same shit. Everyone has insecurities and buttons. But as a real man it’s not about what you feel, it’s what about you *do*. Have some game, don’t chase, collect some notches and have a little harem going – and then what do you care about that shit and what women want and who they settle with? Read Bang, Roosh’s definition of alpha though blasphemy in evo-psych voodoo terms, is the most correct for practical good life.

    Like


  267. Doug:

    If we can achieve that, then we’ve really achieved an artistry level of game.

    Beautifully said, your whole comment there.

    Chateau does show more of a romantic mix than your typical notch count advocate, doesn’t he? He seemed more addicted to infatuation, although not so much evidence for that lately.

    Like


  268. on August 5, 2010 at 4:59 pm gunslingergregi

    ””””””””Stud Dynamite
    more so, I’m starting to think the whole “absolute top dog alpha” worship is just some inner insecurities – there must be these mythical top dog alphas who live the happy life you dream about. Nobody’s that f’n alpha. You spit on the street people will think you’re a thug, while you still might be (and likely are) a big pussy inside. You sit in a catapult pose in a meeting – you’re a dominant boss… same shit. Everyone has insecurities and buttons. But as a real man it’s not about what you feel, it’s what about you *do*. Have some game, don’t chase, collect some notches and have a little harem going – and then what do you care about that shit and what women want and who they settle with? Read Bang, Roosh’s definition of alpha though blasphemy in evo-psych voodoo terms, is the most correct for practical good life.
    ”””””””””

    Well yea everyone probably does have insecurity. Mine is that life is not even worth the effort of living.

    But if there is no real guy to aspire to be a mythical one must be created and a collection of real top guys traits must be looked at and some books must be read so that you have something to aspire too.

    And day by day piece by piece action by action I become the man in the mythical superman dream I want to be.

    Like


  269. Riddle me this?

    Why do some guys lament not getting any “poon” and then when they finally do they call the girl a whore or a slut and then you wonder why women don’t want to give it up?

    So, if you are “getting some” she is automatically a skank and if you are not she is a stuck up bitch?

    Am I missing something in this contradiction in terms?

    Thank you.

    You basically summed up what bothers me about subject matter like this. You hit the nail right on the head.

    [Editor: Yes, the original commenter is missing something. Numbers matter. A few partners isn’t going to cause men to call a girl a slut. Ten or twenty might give them pause.]

    Like


  270. Stud Dynamite,
    I know what you mean. Before this concept of game was around I think it was called being cool. When I hear a hypergamy I think of this story my mom told be. She went to visit her brother at college in the early 70’s when she was still in high school and she went to a Hawaiian themed fraternity party and there was this man there in a white suit (he was supposed to be the mayor of the island) that was clearly the alpha of the party. She told me the following year when she attended the same school and he had already graduated if his name ever came up all her sorority sister would say, “Oh we loved him.” Some men just have what I’ve heard called animal magnetism.
    Yeah, if he’s cute, but acts beta I lose interest fast.

    Like


  271. Renee,

    I think it’s very simple: all (young) men are willing to have casual sex but they won’t have any respect for the women who give it to them easily. In other words: they are willing to pump & dump these women but won’t consider them girlfriend material. That is, from a male POV, the definition of ‘slut’.

    On another one: I think an accurate definition of the 80/20 rule is in order. AFAIK it means that 20% of all men ‘get’ 80% of all (i.e. pre-marital and marital) heterosexual intercourse. For example: if a man has sex with his young hot wife 3 times everyday, he belongs to that 20%.

    Judging by all the stats it seems to me that a small minority of men (the alphas) are essentially ‘passing around’ between themselves a somewhat equally small % of all women (the sluts). The big difference is that alphas are willing to have casual sex with women below their own SMV but pretty girls aren’t having sex with men below their own SMV. That is, IMO, the main cause of the imbalance.

    Like


  272. So, if you are “getting some” she is automatically a skank and if you are not she is a stuck up bitch?

    Reminds me of a joke which might help shed some light on this:

    What’s the difference between a bitch and a whore?

    A whore blows every guy at the party. A bitch blows every guy but you at the party.

    Like


  273. on August 5, 2010 at 6:32 pm Stud Dynamite

    well, Laura, I know what you mean too 🙂 But this animal magnetism:
    a) can be learned.. well, scratch learned, internalized. When you actually have options, you automatically behave like you do. Can be faked too,
    here’s another magnetism epiphany:

    b) in the eye of the beholder. Everybody hurts and has buttons. What I mean is, yes, it exists, but it doesn’t mean whoever has it is some kind of Brad Pitt-in-Troy demi-god.

    There’s really not that much to it, it’s just hard to overcome beta instincts. My big stumbling point (result of high IQ rationalizations I believe) was to grow up and start taking myself seriously. Not be dull, but not take myself and my desires with some kind of irony. Be able to tell a girl she’ll get a spanking and I want mine in hers ASAP without some remnant of beta smirk (again refer to Visualizing Beta post). It is indeed in some sense “being yourself”.

    Like


  274. Höllenhund

    Judging by all the stats it seems to me that a small minority of men (the alphas) are essentially ‘passing around’ between themselves a somewhat equally small % of all women (the sluts). The big difference is that alphas are willing to have casual sex with women below their own SMV but pretty girls aren’t having sex with men below their own SMV. That is, IMO, the main cause of the imbalance.

    The stats are VERY coarse grained in their categories.

    The way it works is that alphas of some type (lesser and solid alpha for the most part, male 10s are scarce) are willing to have casual sex down to 6s, though naturally they want 8s and 9s the most. The distribution is roughly bell curve shaped so there are a whole lot of 6s and a lot of 7 girls too. These for the most part are the real sluts, some portion of them, in their quest for alpha.

    Most 6s and 7s aren’t real sluts though and are either in committed relationships for a time with greater betas (male 7s) or waiting for their alpha of some sort (lesser alpha) to find them, or be introduced to them, and for love to descend upon them.

    Probably a smaller percentage of 8 and 9 girls are sluts, but they’re often in bars and clubs and at events because they get such great feedback. Their attention whore is feed and feed big when they go. Whether they want that or not depends on their personality. They can always get a LJBF to take them to some event, and they can always get suitors wanting to. 9s in particular don’t have to adhere to any three date rule if they don’t want to.

    Like


  275. Hollenhund,

    I think it’s very simple: all (young) men are willing to have casual sex but they won’t have any respect for the women who give it to them easily. In other words: they are willing to pump & dump these women but won’t consider them girlfriend material. That is, from a male POV, the definition of ‘slut’.

    See, stuff like this doesn’t sit well with me. Women are sluts if they give it up easily, but guys are guys for having sex with just about any woman who offers and for not being selective themselves. Hope that made sense…..

    Like


  276. Chainring:

    “I find this mind-boggling. With the amount of female competition for (alpha) men that goes on in modern/feminized America, you would think fat single women would do whatever it takes to get in shape, and thus attract more alpha males. Yet plenty of single fatties do not. Color me confused.”

    Modern Feminism teaches women they are entitled to all the benefits of heterosexuality with having to do anything to get them.

    Like


  277. withOUT having to. sorry.

    Like


  278. @Renee

    Hollenhund,

    I think it’s very simple: all (young) men are willing to have casual sex but they won’t have any respect for the women who give it to them easily. In other words: they are willing to pump & dump these women but won’t consider them girlfriend material. That is, from a male POV, the definition of ‘slut’.

    See, stuff like this doesn’t sit well with me. Women are sluts if they give it up easily, but guys are guys for having sex with just about any woman who offers and for not being selective themselves. Hope that made sense…..

    Ah, you got it: Feminism doesn’t like the double-standard. But women themselves love the double standard.

    They judge other women as sluts; but the men they want are the men who get around.

    The whole point: The double-standard is natural.

    Like it or lump it, the dudes who don’t get around don’t get any, and definitely not with the attractive women. The women who get around also get to have sex with the attracive guys.
    BUT
    The men don’t want relationships with the women who get around.

    Two tracks: Who you’ll fuck, and who you’ll settle down with.

    We seem to be programmed this way.

    It’s not fair. Neither is the fact that some women and men are hot and some are not.

    You can’t wallpaper over the massive lump of human nature: It always pokes out. The whole idea that you can re-engineer basic human instincts to eliminate unfairness in the mating game is marxist-feminist blank-slate garbage.

    And part of that basic nature is the unfairness of it all: nature and evolution never tried to be fair.

    So if you have a problem with this, take it up with evolution. That’s how it’s going to be.

    Like


  279. “So if you have a problem with this, take it up with evolution. That’s how it’s going to be.”

    I think the first stage of grief is “but… but.. sputter!”

    Like


  280. Gorbachev,

    Ah, you got it: Feminism doesn’t like the double-standard. But women themselves love the double standard.

    They judge other women as sluts; but the men they want are the men who get around.

    Well I must be in the minority then. I’m not one to judge anybody and I don’t find men getting around attractive. You do have a point though. If women didn’t find cads/male sluts/sluts/what have you attractive, then there wouldn’t really be a double standard.

    With me, it has more to do with religion and my beliefs than “marxist-feminist blank-slate garbage”. Like I said, having sex with loads of women isn’t attractive to me.

    Citing evolution and human nature as a reason is fine, but using it as an excuse to be promiscuous isn’t. Just saying “oh it’s human nature” doesn’t mean that I have to agree with it.

    I guess that’s the question in the end. Does one agree that it should be that way?

    But then again, I seem to look at this from a religious, moral standpoint (like I tend to do on matters such as this) so how about we agree to disagree 😉

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  281. doesn’t mean that I have to agree with it.

    “It” being the double standard and ‘the way things are’.

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  282. And no, I don’t think that women should be promiscuous either.

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  283. Renee,
    I think the point is that men will be disgusted by a promiscuous woman whereas women will not always feel the same way about a promiscuous man. For me it depends on the man. If he was able to attract a lot of high quality women, which is not easy to do, I would find him more attractive. If he is just desperate and will do anything for easy sex it is less attractive. The most desirable men don’t seem like they have to work that hard at getting women to like them. Men that spend every waking moment chasing tail are not very appealing either, he should have other interests. Also, I prefer men that don’t talk too much about the other women they have been with.

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  284. @Renee
    Gorbachev,
    Ah, you got it: Feminism doesn’t like the double-standard. But women themselves love the double standard.
    They judge other women as sluts; but the men they want are the men who get around.

    Well I must be in the minority then. I’m not one to judge anybody and I don’t find men getting around attractive. You do have a point though. If women didn’t find cads/male sluts/sluts/what have you attractive, then there wouldn’t really be a double standard.

    Men like sluts fine; for sex. For relationships, less.

    Women like the “slutty” men just as much. They want the cad to be devoted to them.

    With me, it has more to do with religion and my beliefs than “marxist-feminist blank-slate garbage”. Like I said, having sex with loads of women isn’t attractive to me.

    Ah. Your opposition comes from the other quarter.

    Citing evolution and human nature as a reason is fine, but using it as an excuse to be promiscuous isn’t. Just saying “oh it’s human nature” doesn’t mean that I have to agree with it.

    This is true. I concede. Your moral standpoint, while alien to me, is internally consistent.

    I guess that’s the question in the end. Does one agree that it should be that way?

    But then again, I seem to look at this from a religious, moral standpoint (like I tend to do on matters such as this) so how about we agree to disagree 😉

    Like I said, I respect the moral judgment and the consistency. I don’t agree with it, but I can respect where you’re coming from.

    This is what marxist-radical-feminism lacks.

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  285. @Laura
    Renee,
    I think the point is that men will be disgusted by a promiscuous woman whereas women will not always feel the same way about a promiscuous man. For me it depends on the man. If he was able to attract a lot of high quality women, which is not easy to do, I would find him more attractive. If he is just desperate and will do anything for easy sex it is less attractive. The most desirable men don’t seem like they have to work that hard at getting women to like them. Men that spend every waking moment chasing tail are not very appealing either, he should have other interests. Also, I prefer men that don’t talk too much about the other women they have been with.

    Laura,

    You’re describing good PUAs with this.

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  286. A couple of decades ago, I sent a letter in to The Playboy Advisor, after they’d published some stats about average # of partners for males and females, and pointed out that if their medians and averages were correct then either a lot of women were liars or a few women were fucking around in numbers that put gay men to shame, or both.

    They rejected my analysis on grounds so innumerate that I didn’t bother to continue the argument.

    Et tu, Playboy.

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  287. A key that opens many locks is a master key.

    A lock that is opened by many keys is a shitty lock.

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  288. Laura. Great contribution from the female viewpoint.

    “I just don’t understand why men aren’t more sympathetic to women because of their hypergamous nature. It’s lousy to know the man you love the best is also loved by most of your pretty girlfriends and many others. We know we’re interchangeable for the most part. I’ve spent so many nights drinking wine, listening to tortured love songs and thinking about someone I’ll never be with. It isn’t that much fun for us either.”

    Here is why:

    1. Because that women had the chance to have sex with that man, even if she was not exclusive. Sex has a value to us men, regardless of where it leads. Men don’t have the choice to be ‘used’ by the alpha female in bed.

    2. For every girl with a broken heart over a player, there are 4 beta males who never even had a chance to get a broken heart. They are available, but women would rather fight over the pre-selected alpha male. In this case, nobody really wins, but you still got to get attention and have sex! Better to live a short lie than not live at all, I suppose.

    I used to be an alpha back in HS, but I’m beta now. Working on the alpha status again now.

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  289. Forgot to add the thesis here:

    Men do not want to marry a woman who would not have been interested in him back when she was being passed around by alpha males.

    Slut or no – Most men don’t want to be the second choice for a woman.

    I guess women don’t mind being second choice to a man.

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  290. PS (promise this is the last one):

    The only way for women to win is to stop going after men for shallow reasons and try to get to know men for their true personalities.

    The only way for men to win is to avoid committing themselves to a girl who has mated with alpha males. Being the second choice means she will never truly love you more than she loved the players.

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