The Anti-Cockblock

I was out at an 80s night at one of DC’s popular nightclubs with a couple of women. We had earlier bounced from a lounge to dance the weeknight away in the middle of a crowd dressed in Top Gun aviator suits. Reader “maurice” had assisted yours truly at the lounge when he introduced a cute blonde and her friend. We had a great time, and sparks were flying between me and the blonde, thanks to my incessant teasing. If she had 100 ponytails, my game was the equivalent of pulling all 100 on the playground.

“Maurice” departed when we left for the next club, leaving me to entertain to the fullest extent of my capability the two women in my company. Unfortunately, I was dog tired, so my game was less than sharp. At the club, I took it easy, leaning back and enjoying the spectacle of the crowd, (although not enjoying so much the ear-piercingly loud music). Meatheads were hitting on the blonde in my company all night — I was getting AMOGed (Alpha Male Other Guy) like it was going out of style — but because of my listlessness all I did was smirk from the bar and raise my glass to her as guy after guy came up behind her grinding into her ass. This was maximum aloof game, and it worked because my aloofness was genuine.

After a while, the blonde’s friend, who I had been talking with off and on during the night, leaned into my ear and shouted over the cheesy music that the blonde needed “a lot of attention” and I had to be “really aggressive” if I wanted to have a shot with her. At first, I was skeptical. Don’t all girls “need attention”? But she offered this insider information with such sincerity that I put aside my doubts and decided to shake off my lethargy and march in strong, with Eye of Tiger. I grabbed the blonde, ran my hands up and down her body, danced with her, spun her around, gave her sexy compliments (not too many), and made out. Very nice lips.

The advice was money. It worked. Later, I reflected on the night. The world is full of cockblockers — bitter girls who live and breathe for their chance to sabotage a budding romance between their friend and a cool guy — but once in a while you will have the pleasure to meet an anti-cockblocker. She is the rare woman who truly wishes to help her friend meet a great guy, and if you pass the perfunctory initial tests she will go out of your way to help you.

So here’s to you, cockbuddy, cock accomplice, cockbacker, you make the world a better place, and you made this demon’s heart grow three sizes that night.





Comments


  1. I’m first! Fuck yeah! Wish I had something good to say. Go Maurice!

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  2. Hey, fuck bitches!

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  3. I’m drunk on scotch.

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  4. Okay, I’m going to go back and watch my pirated copy of Angels and Demons . . . go anti-cockblockers! There’s true Americans!

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  5. Cockbacker saying the blonde needed “alot of attention” and that a suitor had to be “really aggressive”. Now, there a woman under no illusions about how the world works!!

    LR and her apprentice Emme are scowling, trying to come up with a suitably scornful (and off the mark) response…

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  6. Isn’t that the advice that any girl would give – pay more attention to her?

    Or is it the difference between “aggressive”-fawning game and aggressive-caveman-type game?

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  7. “I was out at an 80s night”

    Did you really go to one of those?

    I don’t doubt that there are girls there (after all, the majority of girls have horrible taste in nightlife), but I would have a difficult time respecting myself after one of these.

    Or not slicing my wrists.

    As far as the “The Anti-Cockblock” it is an amazing thing when it happens.

    Also amazing:

    When a girl you are spitting Game to introduces you to her friend who is more fly for the lay up.

    A guy friend of a girl who helps you swoop the girl. (the Anti-hater).

    In all my nights that has only happened once.

    But she was a fly model girl from OZ, so it worked out well.

    – MPM

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  8. Seeking_Alpha: I’d read Roissy’s description of the cockbacker as advising more than just a generic “pay more attention to her” (which, as you say, is par for the course).

    I’d read the “alot of attention”, and “really aggressive” (note the strong qualifiers in both cases) as painting a woman – the blonde – as one who was *very* feminine…in that she expected a suitor demonstrate dominance and assertiveness, and high levels of it to boot.

    The friend had obviously seen what worked on the blonde in the past, and what hadn’t. And to her credit, she gave Roissy LEGIT advice. Not mealy-mouthed “be-yourself”ism, or “show-her-proper-respect”ism. No, there was no vibe-killing feminist bs from the cockbacker..just accurate, realistic advice that spoke of an understanding of human nature and the relations between the sexes unclouded by wishful thinking.

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  9. The anti-CB sounds like a better LTR material than the blond, provided she is a 7+.

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  10. a-bax:
    I’d read the “alot of attention”, and “really aggressive” (note the strong qualifiers in both cases) as painting a woman – the blonde – as one who was *very* feminine…in that she expected a suitor demonstrate dominance and assertiveness, and high levels of it to boot.

    this is exactly right. the blonde was indeed very feminine, with curvy hips, big boobs, large eyes, and a disarmingly coy demeanor. her friend gave good advice. she knew the blonde well, and possessed a sharp eye for what would turn her on.

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  11. count your blessings roissy

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  12. I had a girl friend help a guy secure my attention recently. A girlfriend and I were flying back from Vegas, I was by the window, she was in the middle, this stranger dude was on the isle. I wasn’t feeling too well and wasn’t really paying attention to the two of them. I joined in the conversation when he started asking her about my previous boyfriends. Rather than run my choices down (she could have) she impressed him with my number of options which I think gave him a desire to pursue me even harder. At one point when I went to use the restroom I came back to find they’d moved their seats to give me the isle and he took the middle. She willingly allowed him to sit right next to me and flirt and neg me (apparently I was too fancy) the rest of the flight home. He kissed me at the airport and we still communicate. That’s a great girlfriend. Good women do exist.

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  13. on June 29, 2009 at 1:36 pm mandy been here a while

    The girl probably was already interested in you to begin with. She nudged her friend to nudge you to test the waters and see if the feeling was mutual.

    She was a good friend indeed. 🙂

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  14. @mandy been here a while

    I didn’t tell it too well, I’m a girl too, she was a girl friend, we were sitting with a dude.

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  15. on June 29, 2009 at 1:41 pm mandy been here a while

    aoefe

    You told it fine. I was replying to Roissy’s original blog 🙂

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  16. What a heart warming story, roissy. How about this scenario: You’re at a lounge to celebrate a friend’s party on a Saturday night. The venue is teeming with beautiful Russian women. You have a huge smirk on your face because you know you possess a very powerful skill set acquired through this blog and other PUA forums, and anticipate the damage you’re about to do. One of your friends, a beta with balls, announces that he’s heading toward a nearby table seated with hotties. A split second later, you’re standing alongside your friend about to open the set. But the table gets up and only one hottie stays seated. You’re friend wanders off — presumably to hit on the chicks that got up — but you soldier on and approach the one hottie left at the table. “I think I’m good for now,” she tells you. You find her rejection amusing. You reach for a nearby chair and position yourself in front of her. You begin a routine. She’s about to start investing in the interaction when one of her friends, a girl who left the table moments before, reaches for your target’s hand and quickly pulls her away. Off they go to the dance floor. You turn around and move on to greener pastures.

    How do you neutralize the cockblock in the above scenario?

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  17. The opposite happens a lot of times, when you get in the rescue squad to help you out of delicate situation, meaning you ask your friend to cockblock the annoying guy or vice versa.

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  18. A lot of truth to this post. The traits of the anti-cock blocker are pretty basic.

    She is hot, but not too hot. (meaning she isn’t an attention whore)

    She usually talks sports or some other male dominated bullshit during the night. (which most dudes hate.)

    She internally has accepted that she doesn’t get laid a lot, so why not make sure someone else is getting plowed. A real christian – you know?

    You are right Roissy – they are a rare bread.

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  19. no one cares about what you two broads are jibber-jabbering about. Get bent.

    well done, Roissy. Just a q: how did you know it was real truthful advice, and not just the friend being a devil, trying to get you to fuck up on your own? I’ve known many a best friend intentionally giving a guy bad advice, because best friends and bfs are in constant competition for the girl.

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  20. Is the friend so unique because she knew what would actually work, or was her simple sincere desire to help also that unusual? As in, do a lot of women really try to not help? I mean, I have a few friends who are such a pain that I know I have to get them hooked up before I can even look like I’m having fun when we’re out, but most of my friends, I think, try or would try to be helpful.

    And I agree with mandy long term, that the blonde probably did some nudging of her own.

    I’ll freely admit that if I was asked how to score one of my lady friends I’d respond with “… ? … be funny?”.

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  21. This is why it pays to have female friends that you’re really cool with. About the 80’s music, we have a bar that plays that on Thursday nights in my town, and it gets the most women on any night of any bar. Men may hate 80’s music, but women love it.

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  22. It is SO MONEY when a girl who’s good friends with a hot target girl likes you and has your back.

    Either gives you tips as here, or whispers encouragement to her hot friend or both.

    It’s just absolute gold. I suppose it’s possible to blow these setups and not get laid, but it’s hard.

    Mandy’s interpretation is possible too. Or it could be some of both. Put differently, the girlfriend of the hottie was tell Roissy to finally get off his tired ass, go perform some closing game already, and she’s yours. You lazy asshole.

    Roissy had two cockbuddys that night actually. The other was maurice.

    Kudos maurice, with the 15 yrs younger Brazilian wife!

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  23. just your heart? 😉

    a little backdrop, for what it’s worth, for the edification/discussion of the board. i was early at the lounge waiting for roissy to show up for drinks. the blonde and i were the only ones sitting at the bar. we were both waiting for friends to show up, so i started chatting her up – she was friendly and responded well. roissy arrived almost immediately thereafter and the three of us chatted at the bar for maybe 10 minutes until the girlfriend showed up and they got a table for dinner. (accordingly, i guess I only get a partial assist.) later, the blonde invited the two of us to join them at the table as they were finished eating – we enjoyed about 20 minutes of happy flirting banter in which we were enthusiastically pressed to go to the 80s night with them. social proof: two devilishly handsome men effortlessly attracting interest from attractive females in a matter of minutes: boo-ya!

    the blonde was indeed more feminine and bubbly, but the girlfriend, also attractive, was a little more reserved and socially observant, if just as friendly. she made a point of immediately guessing our ages (correctly), for example. so i wasn’t surprised to read of the anti-CB behavior from her. the blonde was new in town, mildly insecure, a little more obviously on the prowl: the gf, a local, was evidently happy to play a supporting role in this instance, for a girl she can’t have known for longer than a few months, even though her night didn’t really start out that way. (my dropping out early didn’t help the dynamic much, unfortunately.) as roissy noted, a sign of good character.

    what would have happened had i gone along? other than bopping along to some wistful-in-retrospect michael jackson songs? (this was wednesday of last week.) i guess i missed the chance to get to know this rare creature a little better. if you’re out there, gf, you know how to get in touch with us…

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  24. meaning you ask your friend to cockblock the annoying guy or vice versa

    this is what I understand as cockblock. the girl already said no, but due to some girlishness, she wasn’t able to say it openly. anyone can look and see that the guys stands no chance, except him.

    so her friends come to her rescue.

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  25. @doug- yes, that’s why i had to drop out early. i get a few nights out drinking a week – mainly networking happy-hours, that kind of thing. i am a lot more social than she is – but if i’m out too often or if i get home really late, she gets understandably pissed. i did tell her the story and she was amused by it. she’s still not too happy with my roissy fandom- can’t get past the superficially misogynistic aspects. but she’s smart enough to get it if she would ever put in the effort.

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  26. G Money: “Did you really go to one of those?”

    Dude, Roissy’s white:
    http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/27/29-80s-night/

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  27. Maurice

    how was the game yesterday?

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  28. Off-topic, but I really would like to know if Roissy has herpes by now.

    Is it possible to be a “player” and not get herpes? Because otherwise, I would probably rather just use my hand.

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  29. I think it also depends on the girl’s relationship status. Maybe the girlfriend was taken, and she wanted to help her insecure single friend find a guy. A year ago, when my friend and I would go to parties, she was pretty anti-cock block. Though, her way of doing that was to disappear as soon as a guy approached me, and sometimes that left me in an awkward sitaution.

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  30. gig —

    Well that’s one version of cockblocking. The benign one.

    Other versions are where the friend has decided you’re a PUA, a rake, or are moving to fast, and are in danger of (or have been) making entirely too much progress with her friend who’s pussy is pulling her towards you, but the cockblock believes her mind should be telling her to stay away. So cockblock intervenes.

    This might happen because the target has a bf, or has just broken up with one and “is too vulnerable right now”, or it’s supposed to just be a girls night out and she doesn’t want to lose her gf’s attention to some PUA, and so on. Or just jealousy.

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  31. Lupo–

    Yeah, I too immediately thought of that item from the SWPL site when Roissy mentioned the 80s night thing and again when the G man objected.

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  32. ‘So here’s to you, cockbuddy, cock accomplice, cockbacker, you make the world a better place, and you made this demon’s heart grow three sizes that night.’

    haha sounds like one of those Budweiser ‘Real Men of Genius’ ads

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  33. @gig – well, we dominated the first half, but Brazil came back strong in the second. that imediate first goal in the second half really changed the psychology. also, Brazil really had one more goal that was not called correctly.

    so, felicidades – Brazil is one of the strongest teams in the world, and I think Team USA played pretty well. Goalkeeper Howard especially is a star.

    just you wait til next year though – the U.S. has never really been a big World Cup power, but as more white kids grow up with the game and more immigrants contribute to its popularity, you’ll see the U.S. doing better and better. we made the quarterfinals in ’02, don’t forget…

    also i thought it was kind of a joke that the Brazilian players were wearing gloves and scarves even though it was only about 50F. see what happens in a country when there is no winter… the guys are just not that tough! (kidding, kidding… 🙂 )

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  34. white people love 80s nights because it allows us to break out of our shell for a little while, and almost all whites know almost every 80s hit song.

    it is interesting to note that white’s theme parties generally seem to be classed-down events. we have 80s parties, white trash themed parties, etc while black’s themed parties are usually classier affairs. they have black-white parties, white parties (where you wear all white) etc.

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  35. “Men may hate 80’s music, but women love it.”

    Eh. white men like 80s music for the most part. they know most of the songs, and the songs are goofy enough to warrant shitty dancing and over-acted lip-synching.

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  36. “Eh. white men like 80s music for the most part. they know most of the songs, and the songs are goofy enough to warrant shitty dancing and over-acted lip-synching.”

    Must be a regional thing. Over here, it’s mostly gays and white women that go to 80’s night. Most of the white guys like Led Zeppelin, Dave Matthews Band, Bon Jovi etc. But you’re right: they like music that allows them to dance shitty and lip sync.

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  37. @G Manifesto – the ‘anti-hater’ has only happened to me once too , and it was a beautiful thing . a couple yrs ago i was at a house party waiting in line for the bathroom and the guy behind me out of nowhere tells me how his really cute blond friend downstairs wouldnt stop talking about how hot she thought i was (mind you me and the girl hadnt spoken at this point , i didnt even know what she looked like) and that he would introduce me to her later on in the night . within 10 min of meeting the chick we were making out . cheers to that man

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  38. @maurice

    http:// kibeloco.com.br/kibeloco/2009/06/28/suck-it/

    but Luis Fabiano can!

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  39. @gig – hehe. well, Obama is a basketball guy anyway. One of these days we’ll do it – you’ll see. we’ll beat the rest of the world at a game that 95% of americans don’t really care about. *that’s* alpha …

    btw, did you see the other final game that day? south africa vs spain? that was a very good one too – 5 goals in the last 15 minutes.

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  40. Butters,
    How would *I* stop or at least slowdown and disrupt the cockblocker?

    *By closing the physical distance between me and the Target as quickly as I can.*

    This follows along the same idea as Kino escalation, and is vitally important in venues such as clubs and bars, because usually you’ll have have at best, minutes to make your pitch. Its harder to flag a guy who’s right beside your than a guy who’s a table accross from you.

    Never, ever, sit accross from a Woman if you can help it; you wanna be sitting where your thighs are touching.

    Also, you want to be sitting on the “outside” of her-this “boxes in” the Target, and makes the cockblock’s job much harder, as now she must cross over you to get to the Target-now giving *you* more lverage in the situation, because yo can come at her neck for being so rude in interrupting you. By what you said, it seemed like your Target woulda been hooked; doing the above would I think sealed the deal.

    Holla back.

    The Obsidian

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  41. Wow, so how many e-tabs did R go through for this story? Fly Members Only jacket? Pimped out Le Car?

    You were getting AMOG’d as a guy that was already in the group? So, it goes the other way too? You had a series on attacking the AMOG, how do you defend yourself?

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  42. @Chuck:
    “white people love 80s nights because it allows us to break out of our shell for a little while, and almost all whites know almost every 80s hit song.”

    80’s music is terrible. You know it.

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  43. 80’s music is terrible. You know it.

    @Mandy! XD —

    Compared to what era?

    I prefer classic rock myself, rather than pop, but I don’t think, as far as pop goes, that the 80s were particularly bad.

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  44. There are many sharp observations in this post:

    “although not enjoying so much the ear-piercingly loud music”……………….Why do they DO THAT? Its like a conspiracy amongst club-owners to wreck the hearing of their clientele or something while investing in hearing aid companies and taking very long positions. I know they want to create a “wall of sound” so private speech remains private and to provide an air of anonymity, but making people have to yell to hear each other isn’t suave, its blunt. People can lean in when they want to say something in confidence.
    I wish the volume was cut by a third………….my hearing is fine.

    “Meatheads were hitting on the blonde in my company all night – I was getting AMOGed (Alpha Male Other Guy) like it was going out of style “———

    This is why its a labor to take a girlfriend/wife out to clubs, they get reminded of all the other men who would happily fuck them, but read it in their minds as “all these guys would happily marry me—–I wonder if they stack up better than the guy I have.” Women typically will not do this to a guy (except with glances) if he is with a girl regardless of how “hot” he is until he is alone, but men will do it right in front of other men. This is one of the few areas where men really are ruder to their own gender than women are.

    ” leaned into my ear and shouted over the cheesy music that the blonde needed “a lot of attention” and I had to be “really aggressive” if I wanted to have a shot with her.”

    …………………..One wonders how many women sloughed off genuinely great husband/father-material guys and wound up desperately settling for shmucks because the authenticallly great guys didn’t provide enough entertainment/drama in club circumstances, but was willing to rest on his personal/professional achievements/interesting conversation, but failed to be dramatic enough to get her the attentions of others (that she will never meet again) in da’ club? I mean really, here is Roissy, a nice looking, intelligent man of obvious learning……………………but her need for the dramatic forced him to “peform” publically to make her more of the centerpiece of attention than she already was. Men are not like this (usually anyway). Women might ought recognize this as a gender-wide-character fault, just like too many of us guys like to eat cheetos and watch too many baseball games (even when our team is out of pennant contention and the games are meaningless), but they never will.

    ” bitter girls who live and breathe for their chance to sabotage a budding romance between their friend and a cool guy — ”

    Youre worst enemy is someone who poses as your friend so they can give you a lifetime of bad advice. Women do this to each other all the time, especially older women befriending younger women they are jealous of. I suppose they want to make sure the kitten makes all the same stupid assed mistakes they did so they wind up equally miserable so they can really bond at the retirement home.

    “but once in a while you will have the pleasure to meet an anti-cockblocker. She is the rare woman who truly wishes to help her friend meet a great guy”

    ………………That might be a girl really worth getting to know right there.

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  45. Everything was good accept the 90’s, miserable..

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  46. btw, for whiskey, nova and others who were all over the Tsing Loh piece the other day: Douthat covers it today in the NYT. I like his introduction suggestions at the end …

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/opinion/29douthat.html?_r=1

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  47. Why did Roissy go out with maurice? Previous acquaintance or did this meet-up occur through the blog?

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  48. 80’s night is popular precisely because every 15-25 demographic generation fetishizes the music/style/culture from about 15-20 years before. I usually say 20 years for the sake of simplicity.

    This probably has to do with 2 factors: 1) many were small children at the time, so the world really began for them there, and now, as budding adults, they can appreciate and understand all the hilarity and sexual undertones of the time and, when children, they watched in awe as the cool people of their teens and 20s used the pop culture aritfacts of that era;

    and 2) their parents were hooking up/having them at that time, and were vastly involved in that time period; now the parents are reminscing fondly along with the kids, during their now mid-life crisises and now with expendable income to pursue the reminscing (careers are now set).

    Really its all very cyclical. The 70s fetishized the 50s (most notably with Happy Days and Grease); the 80s fetisihized the 60s (Family Ties, suddenly remerging of Paul McCartney and George Harrison with popular songs and music videos, Cheech Marin’s “hippies in the sewer” movie); and the 90s had the 70s (Eagles reunion, Dazed and Confused, Scream (rehashing 70s slasher Horror), That 70s show, coelescing of classic rock as the 70’s sound, return of bellbottom-like pants and platform shoes), etc. And we’ve had 80s nostalgia now for a few years.

    Perhaps a 3rd reason is this: those people who were teens of 20 years ago are now in power in popculture (movie heads, writers, actors, comedians). Denis Leary, I remember, emerged into the pop spectrum then, and has a entire schtick about the 70s (“there we were in the middle of sexual revolution, wearing clothes guaranteed not to get laid!”).

    Now in power (at 30-45), these culture movers can push their own ideas, which, not surprisingly, includes things they think are cool, which, again not surprisingly, involves all the things they loved or hated-but-loved about their formative years.

    These trends seem to affect women and gays more than men; those groups love fashion and kitsch way more than men. Men, on the other hand, are more likely to love smaller genres from the past (only certain forms of hard rock/rap, old video games). Women, who embrace a “love everyone” ethos, cast their net wider. Gays seek culture acceptance through being more with it than the straights.

    So women and gays loving 80s night more than men isn’t surprising, given they are predisposed to loving everything about the 80s, and men only select choice bits.

    It won’t surprise me when we shift to 90’s nostalgia in the next 5 -8 years. It would be sooner, but the cultural line between decades isn’t so clear cut (much of what we remember about about “60s” actually only happened between 66-72; the early 60s (60-65) actually were much more like the 1950s than movies represent.)

    But fetishizing early 90s hip hop has already begun, usually the first sign (the first sign of real 80s nostalgia was Blondie being brought back—music geeks are far more ahead of the curve than most, probably becuase they are less discriminatory era-wise).

    Soon enough, we’ll have some throwback grunge and Kirk Cobain biopics, along with movies set in other classic flashback popculture situations that we’ve all forgotten but will come back to—-Mariah Carey’s Musicbox seems like prime fodder, along with Big screen remakes of 90s sitcoms (Home Improvement, the movie?), fashion (90’s night, complete with Grunge/flannel wear, and guys with bowl haircuts with parts down the middle), and reunions (pick your famous 90’s band that broke up for artistic difference).

    And lets not forget remakes and sequels to long-dead 90’s movies. Independence Day 2?

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  49. @novaseeker:

    “Compared to what era?

    I prefer classic rock myself, rather than pop, but I don’t think, as far as pop goes, that the 80s were particularly bad.”

    meh, Depeche mode is good.

    I like 90s music.

    From the 2000s I like New Young Pony Club. I also have been listening to The Bird and the Bee recently, along with CSS.

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  50. @lurker:

    Holy crap, you wrote that post.

    “And we’ve had 80s nostalgia now for a few years.”
    Skinny jeans and off the shoulder sweaters.

    fail fail fail.

    If people start bringing back big hair, oh goodness.

    I really think girls like 80s night so they can dress bad and get away with it. (fishnets fail fail fail)

    “their parents were hooking up/having them at that time, and were vastly involved in that time period; now the parents are reminscing fondly along with the kids, during their now mid-life crisises and now with expendable income to pursue the reminscing (careers are now set).”

    My dad was a teen in the 50s/60s so it’s totally different for me. But we don’t really obssess over old music in my house.

    “we’ll have some throwback grunge”
    Alice in Chains.

    yeah!

    Although, to be honest, judging by all the guys in rockbands wearing tight skinny jeans, I don’t think anyone could hit those notes anymore. The average male voice has raised in pitch by two octaves.

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  51. @seeking_alpha- through the blog. i had been reading it since about Dec-Jan, and recognized Roissy at Neil Strauss’s booksigning in DC in March. (I kinda know Neil through one of his bookclubs.) we have stayed in touch since then and occasionally get together for drinks etc. we have different favorite places in DC so it usually works out well. in pickup situations, my married status relegates me to wingman, which is fine. but it unfortunately means i usually am out a bit earlier in a given evening than he is.

    I can attest to those few remaining skeptical readers that he is pretty much who/what he seems to be. and the events posted above went down as described, which lends credence to the other stories that some have suggested are made up.

    @lurker- excellent, interesting post. i thought of that when the Biggie Smalls biopic “Notorious” came out a few months ago: the leading edge of ’90s nostalgia.

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  52. lurker: Dead-on with each era’s fetishization of 15-20 years prior. Good examples.

    “It won’t surprise me when we shift to 90’s nostalgia in the next 5-8 years.” The Grand Theft Auto series has already done this a bit with *San Andreas*, complete with an early-90s soundtrack and Kid ‘n Play style hairstyle available to the protagonist, CJ. Also, one of the greatest movies of all time, The Big Lebowski, was set in the early 90s. (This aggression against The Dude will not stand!)

    I’ll definitely know I’m getting old when they have compilations albums out called “Sounds of Seattle”, or something. (All your favorite hits, on 1 CD!!)

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  53. There have been 80s nights for at least 15 years.

    One good indication that American pop hit its peak in the 80s is that everywhere on the planet that does pop, it sounds like a bad copy of 80s American pop.

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  54. Good call, Mo. The music geeks leading the way seems to be very solid in my mind; I remember when the 90s first started, a number of stations in Boston (where I grew up) switched suddenly to hard 70s classic rock formats.

    Notably most went out by the end of the 90s (as the nostalgia died off), but there was a time in the mid 90s you couldn’t drive in the summer without hearing “Sweet Home Alabama” “Whole Lotta Love” or “The Wall” coming out of someone else’s car or ina convenience store.

    If you think the Biggie Bio was interesting, wait till black filmakers make Tupac into a fucking saint. Little doubt Spike Lee’s not gonna grab that and run (malcolm X, anyone?), probably in response to a Cobain biopic that claims he’s the voice of the generation. It’ll be like the Ray/Johnny Cash competing biopics of the last few years.

    Course Spike could end up doing MJ’s now that he’s gone, but Tupac seems more like Spike’s speed.

    Like


  55. Big Lebowski was not early 90’s; it was set during its contemporary time period (1998). It was the Cohens showing the weirdness of then Hollywood.

    Like


  56. 90’s music was not pleasant. Alice-in-Chains was a highpoint of a bleak decade. The Stone Temple Pilots had a handful of listenable stuff, Pearl Jam had what…….3 or 4 songs (sung by a singer with an unlikeable voice), Nirvana had about 5 catchy songs that got heavy radio play (Teen Spirit, Come as You Are, Lithium, Heart Shaped Box, All Apologies, what else?) , and thats roughly it. “Agnst-ridden” music isn’t all that pleasing to the ear or mood. “Aeroplane” by the Red Hot Chili Peppers, “Im not Afraid” by Fleming and John, “Here and Now” by Letters to Clio, “Hobo Humpin’ Slobo Babe” by Whale were some “stick-in-your-head” songs from that era………………but otherwise there really wasn’t much.

    Very little grunge band music will be played on classic-rock radio 20 years down the line. Most likely, it will just be forgotten. There is very little audience for it. Agnst-ridden-lametation-filled music just isn’t very exhilirating. From the beginning of recorded time, songs have been about love, good feelings, optimism, stories about likeable (there is that word again) people, heartbreaking people of both sexes, and the like. Songs describing how lousy the current social scene or how terrible the free market is or whatever aren’t naturally legion.

    Like


  57. mandy:

    “80’s music is terrible. You know it.”

    every music era gets defined by its extremes. the 80s had the pixies, the cure, u2, tom petty’s best work, guns n roses, and on and on.

    the crapiness of 80s music is imprinted on our brains because that was the beginning of the MTV era where we saw these bands on TV in all their corny theatrical display. this is also the main reason that era of music remains so popular for parody today.

    someone said it before, but the 90s had more *bad* songs than the 80s.

    also, don’t forget, journey. listen to “don’t stop believin'” and tell me that 80s music sucks. better yet, get a little sloshed and then listen to it…it will take you to another dimension.

    Like


  58. A-bax, otherwise, dead on agree. I felt old when Family Ties went Nick at Night.

    Like


  59. “btw, for whiskey, nova and others who were all over the Tsing Loh piece the other day: Douthat covers it today in the NYT. I like his introduction suggestions at the end …”

    @Maurice —

    Yep, I blogged on it as well. I loved the joke at the end!

    Like


  60. Z, while “classic rock” still considered 70s, and the hair bands were routinely mocked by music critics and classic rock purists….remember now that Van Halen, Poison, Bon Jovi, Warrant, etc. get good airplay on classic rock stations (which themselves have back to the 80s theme nights).

    Trust me, Cobain, et al. from the 90s have more “70s” sound than the hair bands, so they should get more airplay.

    Like


  61. @A-Bax- that rug really tied the room together, did it not?

    @lurker- for your information, the Supreme Court has Roundly Rejected PRIOR RESTRAINT!

    @mandy- Do you like sex, Mr. Lebowski? Sex, the physical act of love, Coitus? I like it too. It is a male myth about feminists that we hate sex. It is a natural, zesty enterprise – however, there are some – it is called satryiasis in men, nymphomania in women, who engage in it compulusively and without joy. (Oh yes, Mr. Lebowski). these unfortunate souls cannot LOVE in the true sense of the word. Our mutual acquaintance (Tara Reid) is among them.

    Like


  62. @z:

    I think grunge music is a state of mind. You’re going to meet people who listen to nothing but that, and will listen to nothing but that for the rest of their lives.

    There was also Third Eye Blind.

    And you can’t forget the dance music that came out then either. Everybody Dance Now? Children? Yeah, awesome songs.

    And the 90s was the era of boy bands and girl groups (NSync, Backstreet Boys, Destiny’s Child) but one of those disappeared, and the other two had their best members go solo.

    Like


  63. lurker:
    “Big Lebowski was not early 90’s; it was set during its contemporary time period (1998). It was the Cohens showing the weirdness of then Hollywood.”

    Hate to nit-pick here, but remember (very) early on in the movie when The Dude was buying milk with a check, and he glanced over at the TV? It showed George HW Bush talking about Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait, saying how this aggression against Kuwait “will not stand”. The Dude then subconsciously co-opts Bush I’s phrasing when talking with Walter about how the rug-pee-ers had gone too far. Walter then suggests he track down the *other* Lebowski to get $ for his rug back, and we’re off to the races…

    And yes, I’ve seen this movie WAY too many times…

    Like


  64. “also, don’t forget, journey. listen to “don’t stop believin’” and tell me that 80s music sucks. better yet, get a little sloshed and then listen to it…it will take you to another dimension.”

    @chuck —

    Hehe, that’s true about Journey.

    To me the 90s is really only about a few bands: Dave Matthews Band, Pearl Jam, Oasis. Most of the rest seem pretty unimpressive when compared with the 70s and 80s (leaving pure pop aside).

    Like


  65. z:

    “Alice-in-Chains was a highpoint of a bleak decade.”

    you’re forgetting Radiohead. all of their albums are packed with good songs. they remain relevant and original as well. yes, a band like ‘Alice’ may have had a large impact, but it was very short-lived.

    not to get off on a tangent (i know radiohead fans are kind of like the ron paul fans of music), but radiohead is often overlooked for their cultural impact. radiohead is one of the few bands that have captured the angst of the down-trodden male. just listen to their first hit “Creep”. riding the post-grunge wave, they took that movement to a more cerebral level. they combined a simmering unease with life, society, and culture and gave an intelligent voice to it (their best album “OK Computer” has many underlying Orwelian themes, and a song on “Hail to the Thief” is titled 2+2=5 which is straight from ‘1984’.)

    i should point out though that i’m often annoyed by their (and most bands) focus on liberal policies like free/fair trade and going green. if i was too principled in those things though, i couldn’t listen to *any* bands.

    Like


  66. lurker

    “80’s night is popular precisely because every 15-25 demographic generation fetishizes the music/style/culture from about 15-20 years before.”

    Its true.

    During the early 90’s there was a 70’s revival of sorts, bell-bottom type jeans on girls, disco, Drug Store Cowboy (personal favorite) and that movie Rush. Heroin got popular again. Heroin models etc.

    z

    “90’s music was not pleasant.”

    90’s music was a direct backlash to the feel good, dorky 80’s excess. An 18 year old kid in 1990 hated the 80’s. He was looking to break things, skateboard and do heavy drugs and swoop mad girls. Grunge and Rave music (along with hip hop) gave that outlet. Punk had a revival as well. Real punk I am talking about.

    Which is why 80’s music is so popular now; this decade has been very excessive and dorky. Office worker in the club. Mortgage brokers in striped shirts. Kenneth Cole shoes. Zero edge. Corporate as king.

    I am surprised we are not seeing a more negative tone in music like the 90’s right now.

    Perhaps in the next year or so.

    But now the hipsters and wimpsters dominate.

    And I cannot understand that subculture for the life of me.

    Please someone explain.

    Do they even do drugs?

    – MPM

    Like


  67. @lurker re Lebowski- nope, it came out in ’98 but is set in ’91 during runup to first Iraq war. Not so much about the wackiness of Hollywood- of LA, maybe. it has many layers and works on very many levels. it’s one of the few comedies i’ve ever seen that reliably get better on EACH reviewing. and the funny quotable lines are without equal. hence the geeky quote-post above. i could probably recite the entire screenplay from memory. too much info, i know …

    Like


  68. on June 29, 2009 at 4:24 pm the_alpha_male

    I saw Alice In Chains when they opened for Van Halen. Front row in front of EVH.

    Hardly anyone heard of Alice in Chains and we booed them off the stage.

    A few months later i got into them.

    Tool was also a good 90’s band imo.

    Like


  69. A-bax, fair enough, didn’t know that. Certainly had all the other time period set pieces; maybe they just inserted it to allow the Dude to say that? After all, CNN did replay Bush speeches when Clinton went after Saddam via air strikes/sanctions. And we also had Sarajevo, which Clinton invoked Bush on.

    i would disagree because Walter/et al. calls the Germans “germans” and “Nazis” and “anti-semites;” in the early 90s, Walter, a Vietnam vet, would mostly have gone off on their being “commies” or specifically said “east german” or “west german.”

    but that’s just nitpicking. I could be acting like Donnie here: “Shut the fuck up, Donnie, you’re in WAY over your head here.”

    Like


  70. novaseeker

    “To me the 90s is really only about a few bands: Dave Matthews Band, Pearl Jam, Oasis.”

    Dave Matthews Band, Oasis, late 90’s.

    You are missing the boat on all the smaller grunge bands, punk (bad religion, pennywise) and the golden era of east coast hip hop.

    Not to mention the rise of West coast hip hop, LBC, snoop etc and Rave music.

    Rave parties were really the most significant movement to happen during the 90’s.

    Often overlooked.

    And a great place to swoop girls in pigtails.

    – MPM

    Like


  71. Lurker–

    That long post of yours was interesting.

    It’s good to see you being constructive, and how constructive you can be, when you want to be.

    Like


  72. Mo, prior restraint? not getting the reference, sorry.

    I wonder if we’ll finally get a Duke Nukem sequel.

    Like


  73. @Maurice: So many good lines!! Arguably Jeff Bridges’ and John Goodman’s career performances, and arguably the Coen Bros’ best flick (although the competition is stiff what with Raising Arizona, Fargo, and Miller’s Crossing out there).

    Too many unreal lines and bit’s of dialogue to quote, so I’ll just leave it with:

    “Calmer than you are, Dude”.

    Like


  74. Tazzy Bee

    “@G Manifesto – the ‘anti-hater’ has only happened to me once too , and it was a beautiful thing .”

    Yeah it really is.

    Its like hitting a last second fade away for the win.

    – MPM

    Like


  75. “I can get you a fucking toe man. I can get you a toe by 3 o’clock.”

    Like


  76. “You are missing the boat on all the smaller grunge bands, punk (bad religion, pennywise) and the golden era of east coast hip hop.

    Not to mention the rise of West coast hip hop, LBC, snoop etc and Rave music.

    Rave parties were really the most significant movement to happen during the 90’s.

    Often overlooked.”

    @The G Manifesto —

    Yeah I was married at the time, so rave parties were not really happening, but I agree there were some other musical things going on. It’s just that, to my ears at least, they paled in comparison to the previous two decades.

    I also think that the development of rock music over the period has mirrored developments relating to masculinity and perceptions of masculinity — something I’ve written too much about elsewhere 🙂

    Like


  77. @GMan re lurker post: OK, but even though some 90s music may have been depressive, edgy, punky, whatever – 90s corporate culture was more or less the same as it was in the 80s or 00s. you had a small recession early in the decade and the dot-com boom at the end – each of which undermined the corporate ethos in a different way – but not fundamentally. contrast the 70s, my childhood, which had much more anti-establishment feeling throughout society than the 90s.

    i think the generational argument is stronger. the kids coming up want something different than their elder brothers or parents, so whatever is in fashion goes out of fashion. the wheel turns, and the hipster/wimpster is a reaction against what came immediately before. the 20 year cycle lurker identified is the generational wheel turning full circle- 40-somethings using their positions of authority as cultural arbiters to elevate the pop music and culture of their youth.

    Like


  78. lurker
    “Mo, prior restraint? not getting the reference, sorry”.

    -Another great Walter quote from when they’re bowling early on in Big Lebowski.

    Seriously lurker, that post was damn good. I remember being surprised when I was a kid to learn that Happy Days was NOT set filmed in the 50s, but that it was 70s-era nostalgia. And now that you mention it, Family Ties was definitely saturated with hippie-dippie nonsense in the forms of the parents.

    I just hope Spike Lee gets someone else to write the Tupac biopic he’ll end up directing. Except for “Do The Right Thing”, Spike kinda sucks when he’s directing his own material. Someone’s else’s story though? Fucking awesome. (Remember 25th Hour? A modern classic.)

    They just need to keep Puffy and Kanye away from the Tupac movie.

    Like


  79. lurker,

    Great post.

    “the early 60s (60-65) actually were much more like the 1950s than movies represent.)”

    Very true.

    The SE Hinton books cover this “transitional” era very well.

    The greaser losing ground to the hippie and the drug culture.

    White gangs being marginalized etc.

    – MPM

    Like


  80. @The G manifesto:

    I’m not sure if it still is, I don’t think hipster culture is that popular where I live, but being straight edge was really popular for a while. straight edge= no sex, drugs, or alcohol.

    Also, emo music is supposed to sound peppy and happy but not all of it is. “Face down in the dirt, she says this doesn’t hurt…” Wow, that sounds really cheery. Although grunge music was more…angsty overall.

    Oh yeah, and My Chemical Romance is the band that exclusively has fans that are 13 (or 14) year old ex-cutters.

    Although, I’m wondering why people are saying that no one listens to grunge. I think most people could sing along to at least four or five songs by Nirvana. And like them too.

    Like


  81. interesting run-downs by lurker and G.

    “Please someone explain.”

    one difference between music today and the cycles of the past couple decades is the emergence of hip-hop. european style techno and electronica has melded with rap and hip hop to form the stuff we hear in Lady Gaga and Ne-Yo. The stuff on top 40 radio is heavily invested in keeping kids dancing and ambivalent to the shitty economy and the other problems of the world.

    Like


  82. on June 29, 2009 at 4:41 pm russell rodriguez

    that very good roissy im glad you find a good looks girl like that wirth help from her friend

    Like


  83. “obviously, you’re not a golfer.”

    “nobody fucks with the Jesus.”

    “enjoying my coffee…”

    “do you see what happens, Larry …?”

    “nice marmot.”

    “it is our most modestly priced receptacle….”

    Should I go on? I better stop, because i could clearly go on all afternoon …

    @A-Bax – all those movies are different. i thought “no country for old men” was awesome. but it’s harder to make timeless COMEDIES. they are usually more topical and age very quickly. the coens have had misses with comedies (hudsucker proxy, burn after reading) but that one is pure and everlasting gold.

    Like


  84. “I’m not sure if it still is, I don’t think hipster culture is that popular where I live, ”

    Hipsters and wimpsters have completely taken over southern california.

    They were around before, but they staged a coup Almost immediately once the economy dipped.

    The striped shirted office guy can barely be found. Bottle service is RIP.

    “being straight edge was really popular for a while. straight edge= no sex, drugs, or alcohol.”

    Yeah, another 80’s throwback. DC’s own Minor Threat started that crap.

    – MPM

    Like


  85. A-Bax: “Family Ties was definitely saturated with hippie-dippie nonsense in the forms of the parents.”
    —yep, and Keaton, the Reagan conservative, was a direct critique of all of their failings. Family Ties was actually set out as a more interesting sitcom of societal political arguments before it devolved into the star vehicle for breakout character Michael J. Fox. Although Nick rocked as a recurring boyfriend for Mallory; a really funny impression Stallone.

    But Spike just isn’t a good director; Do the Right Thing showed talent, but he’s never done anything with it. He’s Kevin Smith or Guy Ritchie: one promising movie, then a lot of unwatchable crap that’s either a rehash of the old or just tired preaching.

    I just thought of another great 20 year throwback: hipsters wear converse sneakers, right? Converse all but disappeared after the 1980s from the NBA as Nike and Reebok took it over, but during the 80s (especially early) they were ubiquitous…especially on their spokesman’s feet….Larry Bird. And I believe Magic had a pair, too. G?

    Like


  86. don’t forget that “Happy Days” was a direct spinoff from “American Graffiti” – with some of the same cast – an unexpected, breakout hit of 1972. (George Lucas’s first big hit, which gave him the clout with 20th C. Fox to make “Star Wars”.)

    the point is, they didn’t really expect 50s nostalgia in the early 70s- it was kind of a surprise. there was no 40s nostalgia in the 60s, after all – that was the big generational break in terms of youth-music style. so maybe that phenomenon set the template for the 30-year recurring pattern.

    Like


  87. mandy–

    Since I wasn’t around when these things were being discussed but have done some scanning, perhaps you’ll allow me to comment on some things others said re you.

    First I think it’s quite smart of you to be reading this board as a girl of 17. I believe you alluded to others around you in RL often being older. I wonder if that’s because you’re a real smarty and have skipped a grade or two. Obviously intelligent and thoughful for your age regardless. There’s nothing or not much that’s salacious on the board and anyway 17 isn’t really that young and lord knows plenty of girls younger than you are looking at hard porn etc.

    Second, LILGRL’s advice on taking full bore sex on only when you really want to and as others have said is in accordance with your religious or other belief’s as you interpret them, is right on. I don’t share those conservative religious beliefs myself but I respect them. LILGRL is herself an example of a very flirty, sexy and fun girl who I’ve long realized, from things she’s said if not highlighted, has had very few sexual partners. Lots of flirting anyway, and she’s GOOD at it. And has got herself a very good looking alpha and apparently smart Silicon Valley fiance. Listen to her. (Or me.) Not bitter betas.

    As you already know, the board is a mixture of a number of alphas (other than Roissy himself of course) offering game advice (or getting some additional ideas themselves) or commenting on the gender realism and anti-feminism sides to the info and ethos around here, and a much larger number of betas at various stages of game or non game, here to learn and often commiserate. Some betas can be pretty bitter and a few really do tend to lash out at girls, especially newcomers, who show up here for little good reason. (There’s plenty of reason to lash at such as Emme.)

    There is something of an anti-white knighting ethic here too, so it can get a little rough. Realize that and let it roll off your back. A few attackers here and there doesn’t mean that most commenters here don’t like you or like you a lot. Despite the ethos, if a real gang up occurs for no good reason or it’s way excessive, some of us will step in some if we’re around. But it’s a rather rough and tumble place. You’ve shown you can handle yourself well here, in any event.

    I think you are the youngest girl commenter on the board, but Bhetti (who’s been doing exams in London but will probably be back at least some soon) is 20 and Kim is 22.

    A belated welcome. It’s nice to have you here and to hear your perspectives.

    Like


  88. “I don’t roll on fucking Shabbaz!”

    “I no fuck you on Saturday, I fuck you on Wednesday.”

    “What does anything have to with fucking Vietnam, Walter?!”

    “I hate the fucking Eagles man!”

    “I’m a brother Seamus!” “You’re an Irish monk?”

    “Mind the beverage, man!”

    “It aids in concepcion.”

    “Give us the money, Lebowski!”

    Like


  89. Mo, I would argue that there was some 40’s nostaligia in the 60s: that’s when Casablanca (from the 1940s) because the be-all-end-all-quote-it-forever movie of the time, much like we’re doing to Lebowski. And WW2 nostaligia was kicking in, with plenty of killer movies on the subject. And Woody Allen began cribbing Bob Hope (who rose to fame in the 1940s).

    but I generally agree with your premise: mass media (TV, movies, pop music) + increased leisure time & money + college (laziness, time for meaningless meandering)=ability for cultural nostalgia.

    Like


  90. @Maurice: “He fixes the cable?” Dig it. I’d put Raising Arizona up there as a timeless comedy classic, only this time Goodman is paired with a rangy, slow-talking Nic Cage (in a seriously underrated performance).

    No Country slipped my mind, that was defintely awesome. As was O Brother. They have so many good flicks it’s hard to know where to start.

    @ Mandy! XD: I’m biased, but I’m glad to see that grunge is still listened too (even if only a little bit) by the youngins. Nirvana songs definitely translate well to other mediums, as they were melodically strong and most singers have a very un-Kurt like delivery, so they can make them their own.

    I’d like to think there are dozen or so of AIC, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and Stone Temple Pilots tunes that most people would know pretty well. (Anyone hear Johnny Cash’s version of “Rusty Cage”, or “Hurt” by NIN? Unreal.)

    Also, novaseeker makes a good point that the 90s were a veritable renaissance of solid rap. (late) Ice-Cube, Snoop, Tupac, Biggie, (early) Jay-Z, Nas, and towards the end of the decade you had DMX and Eminem. And you can’t forget about the short-lived but inimitable Bone Thugs n’ Harmony.

    The 90s ruled.

    Like


  91. This was the song that signalled the end of 80’s hair metal to me (in 1988):

    I remember thinking “this whole thing is so formulamatic now, they are all doing the same thing”, when I seen that in 1988. Hairspray, hair color, make-up (and no, not like KISS make-up, pretty-boy make-up), outrageous clothes you would not wear anywhere, eye-shadow…..EYE SHADOW!!!!!, all arranged around a guitar riff with lyrics that really didn’t make much sense, just carefully arranged cliche’s that somewhat rhymed.
    I think a little later a band named Warrant came out with a ridiculously silly song and video called “Cherry Pie” that was dumb, dumb, dumb.

    BUT,………………….the reaction was so far the “other” way. Guys in flannel shirts who looked unbathed using simple chord progressions and yelling and kvetching.

    I was a Led Zeppelin/Journey/Aerosmith/Boston/early Van Halen/Heart/Fleetwood Mac/Deep Purple/KISS kinda music listener. I was into bands that were “before my time” because I wasn’t into the bands that were of my time (Ratt, Motley Crue, etc). I mean a few of those hair metal bands did have a handful of catchy songs, but listening to their entire SECOND albums usually revealed a lack of creativity******

    ****** Anybody else ever notice how many of those hair metal bands (Im thinking Ratt here) had a pretty damn good first album, where they got to record the songs they had been working on for years (usually 7 or 8 pretty good ones), only to release material on later tapes with 3 singles and the rest rather “filler”-like material? Their stuff didn’t get better with time, or even different…………it sort of slowly melted like ice cream in the sun.
    To contrast, Led Zeppelin’s synthesizery “In Through The Out Door” might not have been as much liked as some of their earlier work by many, but nobody would accuse them of not constantly striving and creating and looking ahead with the effort. The melodies and song structure (and the lyrics of a thing like Carouselambra) were very time-intensive. The had to -work- on something like that. Hair metal bands seemed to wheel stuff off quickly as an excuse to tour and fuck groupies. Grunge bands seemed so drug-addled that they could only work when enough members were reasonably clean and sober enough to do so, despite some of them having real talent (Alice in Chains especially—-and STP).

    Like


  92. lurker is right on with the twenty-year lag. i came of age in the ’90s and we tended to look to the ’70s whenever we wanted something cool(music, clothes, sayings). by the end of the ’80s, that whole scene just seemed like it had run out steam. when people say ‘hair bands’ they seem to mean def lepard and bon jovi, but i think of trixter and firehouse. eventually every era runs out of steam and the new jacks are looking for something original. they find it by simultaneously looking forward and backwards. the watershed moment of the ’90s was when nevermind knocked michael jackson’s dangerous of the top spot of the billboard charts.

    here’s my question? was the grunge and alternative music of the ’90s the last legitimate pop culture movement that actually developed on it’s own. the biggest acts of the last 10-15 years have been corporate in a way they never have before. even though the ’80s is associated with pop music look at its two biggest stars. michael jackson got his start with a group his dad started and made it big on motown, which i think was still an independent label at the time. madonna got her start slutting her way around the lower east side in the early ’80s.

    Like


  93. The G Manifesto

    And I cannot understand that subculture for the life of me.

    Please someone explain.

    Do they even do drugs?

    early disciples of The Subculture wannabe black. after downloading, dancing and clubbing to 20,345 lil’ john and jay-z mp3s.

    they realize they’ll never be bruthas. it’s the DNA, but they were never explained this in school; there was no time in between the homework on MLK and guest feminists lecturing on The White Man Raping Indians with smallpox infected blankets.

    you know the familiar phases: anger, denial acceptance blah blah.

    upon reaching the anger phase at non-blackness, they all go EMO and start cutting themselves to My Chemical Romance songs.

    that’s pretty much it.

    Like


  94. lurker:

    the converse that hipsters wear today, the “Chucks” were popular in the 1950s although they were popular in the 1980s as well.

    your post earlier was very good. but i have to throw out one thing that i’ve been thinking on regarding it, and your chucks comment brought it up.

    the 1980s seem to me to fetishize the 1950s in many ways instead of the 1960s. the 80s had reagan, the 50s eisenhower. both seemed to paint a somewhat quant picture of American family life. people seemed more in a state of euphoria and it seems they turned to superficial means of escape (the 50s saw the rise of doo-wop and rock music and the 80s saw the rise of hair metal, both of which were bubble-gumish in their own ways).

    also, the 1970s only seemed to fetishize the 1950s through “Happy Days”. in my eyes, the 1970s were merely a reckoning of the 1960s culture wars.

    fast forward to today. our pop culture rests on the diverse genres developed in the 1950s and decades thereafter. i believe that we have basically run out of ideas for these genres. since it is easier to play copy cat and adopt the styles of past generations, that’s what we have done. but since we have so many templates to choose from, there are many different styles that people adopt, and they have become jumbled and mixed up.

    it has come to a point where it is hard to sort out the cycles that have occured in the past. the recursive feedback loop that is pop culture moves to fast, and there is too much history there for one certain genre to gain a stronghold over pop culture the same way grunge did in the early 1990s.

    just random thoughts, i enjoyed your post though.

    Like


  95. minor corrections:

    “there’s a beverage here, man!”

    “it increases the chances of conception”

    but yeah, that’s the spirit.

    “Ulli doesn’t believe in anything – he’s a nihlist” “Oh? Sounds exhausting.”

    “I was in the music business briefly…Roadie for Metallica. (Speed of Sound tour … bunch of assholes…)”

    “This is our concern, Dude.”

    “They were nihilists? Fuck me. Say what you will about the tents of National Socialism. At least it’s an ethos.”

    “At least I’m housebroken.”

    She’s not my special lady – she’s my lady friend.”

    Like


  96. Re: setting of Big Lebowski:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=4zO2BS4FiE4C&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=Big+Lebowski+set+in+the+early+90s&source=bl&ots=Xph9TWdbrn&sig=dYmIIVZxW0i0uNhp9Yc6Qw7UXdI&hl=en&ei=hStJSu6_PKCw8QTK2OGTDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2

    The third graph has Ethan Coen coming out and saying it was set in the early 90s.

    No big deal dude…your larger (and insightful) thoughts vis a vis 15-20 year cyclical nostalgia remain intact.

    Like


  97. @lance, others – isn’t the williamsburg-hipster-wimpster phenomenon a kind of echo of the 90s grunge cobain thing?

    Like


  98. I thought the true end of the 1980s came with Last Action Hero (1993); Def Leppard got to write/sing “the song” from the soundtrack that in the 1980s would have been a radio hit (“Two Steps Behind”). Yet it barely made a dent pop culture wise, though it rose pretty high; talk about it today and people look at you blankly.

    I was young, but I sort of got the feeling that something was over. It was the first Arnold movie that truly bombed, it fittingly putting an end to the over the top 80s action movies genre (Rambo/Lethal Weapon, as it itself was a crtique of the genre, and the song died on everyone’s lips.

    The movie that killed it was Jurassic Park, which signalled the beginning of CGI and the death of stunt-movie-guy action movies.

    Like


  99. As I’ve written elsewhere, the critical thing about the 1980’s was there were enough teens and young people to support a youth culture music. You had a lot of styles of music, and in the 1990’s far fewer, now it’s just coasting with Punk or Rap Revivals, Crunk, etc.

    The 1980’s had about 3 million more (White) teens than now, and yeah, it does make a difference. Teens even in hard times want new music, and bands now can create tours easier and cheaper, make money off live performances, and sell music direct on their website with minimal capital costs.

    Yet who makes money? Nostalgia groups like the Eagles and Hannah Montana, both with $100 tickets to live events. Even that has fallen away in hard times, tickets going unsold and Disney in crisis because the business model of extracting cash from Tween girl parents has fallen apart in hard times.

    There are plenty of musical opportunities, brass and woodwind instruments create different sounds than just guitars for a Rock beat, people can borrow classical melodies, or and so on, with a dance beat. None of that will IMHO happen because first there’s not enough young people to form a large enough pool to provide innovation (as opposed to copying) and second there is not enough of a market to make it profitable.

    After all, what the hell was 80’s Music? Synth heavy (new technology) “lush” stuff designed to evoke emotional responses ala Bryan Ferry or more uptempo Duran Duran, roots oriented rockabilly/psychobilly played even FASTER, various punk stuff designed to evoke raw masculine aggression and DIY ethos, metal/hair bands designed to incorporate both fast-aggressive masculine music and a lush synth sound (Van Halen’s Jump).

    Music designed to be danced slow, or fast.

    Like


  100. @Obsidian:

    The target wasn’t hooked yet; I had about 20 seconds before her cockblocking friend came to the rescue. The “investment” I spoke of was the fact that she interjected two lines into my routine and asked me if I was an actor (acting ability was a topic of the routine). (Relatedly, when a target mistakes you for some high value personage, how do you pass the shit test without fibbing?) I said I wasn’t and proceeded with the routine. Nary a word was uttered before the cockblock swooped in and stole my dessert.

    So the heart of the problem is that this was a pre-attraction cockblock. You’re totally right that I should’ve sidled up to her and used my thighs to work some magic. But I wasn’t sitting across the table from her. Here, I thought it would be loads of fun to diagram the scenario for you: http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4042/cockblock.png

    Like


  101. Chuck: Can’t believe I forgot about Radiohead, and your absolutely right. (Their first 2 albums at least. I just couldn’t get into the Kid A and beyond stuff. Call me a philistine, but they lost me with that stuff.)

    Again, I’m biased, but Alice in Chains’ Dirt was the crowning achievement of grunge, from where I’m sitting. People forget how innovative and influential that band was (4th interval harmonies, the dark vibrato of Layne, the twangy-yet-sabbathy arrangements by Cantrell.) It only seems formulaic now because it reached admittedly short-lived perfection with Alice, and tons of bands adopted the style.

    Like


  102. likeI said, never noticed, not hurt. I guess I was way outta my league there, Donnie.

    Chuck, I think the general formula is this: X decade loathes/insults decade X-10, but reveres and yet also lovingly mocks/treats as kitsch X-20.

    American Graffiti was also a 70s movie which heralded the 50s, don’t forget. And Laverne & Shirley (set in the 1950s). And the re-emergence of a black muscial genre (disco), just as the 50s had rock and roll (which gradually became white dominated through the 60s).

    And the cultural love yet mocking of X-20 might be because of reversed situations; the 60s preached liberalism, while the 80s pointed out the failings of 60s liberalism in justifying conservatism; the 70s were poor economically, while we had the roaring 90s.

    Like I said, its not so rigid, but the formula fits well enough.

    Like


  103. Mo, the hipster thing largely reveres (or claims to revere) “punk” music from the 1980s, which is portrayed as New York, poorly dressed, and with tatoos, weird hair, tight clothes, etc.

    Grunge would have these guys living in a moderate sized west coast city in loose, comfortable clothing signing blase songs about depression, not trying for one upsmanship.

    Like


  104. I meant first 3 Radiohead albums. They lost me after OK Computer (which is their masterpiece). Or, maybe my acid-mushroom days were just behind me by then.

    Like


  105. By heart you mean penis right?

    Like


  106. there are a couple musical phenoms that don’t quite fit the template – disco was mentioned. where the hell did that come from? cheesy, yes, but especially painful for me because i was old enough in the late 70s to understand perfectly the casual-sex ethos but to young to partake. so the 90s nostalgia for the 70s didn’t really include any of that – right? unless you include “Mamma Mia”.

    also, what about the huge synthetic-manufactured- teen star music of the ’00s? britney spears, the boy bands, spice girls, etc. are they an echo of anything in the 80s, or something cooked up by record labels, a deliberate mix of styles cooked up to be maxiially commercial.. hmm, wait- sounds like the stuff i’ve been reading about michael jackson’s music in his obits – the way quincy jones pulled together motown, soul, rock, disco and other styles … hmm…

    Like


  107. @A-Bax – OK, Raising Arizona is a masterpiece as well, and Nic Cage is indeed great in it. O Brother was the first thing I ever liked Clooney in.

    @lurker – OK, but i recall punk as being a lot angrier and more aggressive than these hipsters are. they seem to be channeling the angst-emo thing a lot more.

    Like


  108. Mo,re: disco

    well the 90s nostalgia did, as did the first vestiges of 80s nostaliga (remember, disco night didn’t happen till I believe 83; its not a solely 70s phenom.).

    Whitney Houston’s remake of “I’m every Woman” from Shaka Khan does it. Donna Summer, if I remember, was briefly back in the news in the 90s. As does Blondie at the beginng of the 80s kick (being an early 80s disco band). And Mamma Mia. And I am not making this up, severl straight men I know starting singing hte praises of ABBA in the mid 90s.

    Heck, OJ Simpson, 70s football star, was back in the 1990s news for some strange reason.

    like I said, though, its not perfect one for one, but yeah, they did come back.

    On the emrgence of Disco: Disco emerged from the black club scene of the late 1960s, which sought to rebel against the whiteification of rock n roll. Rock had become the smelly, unkempt money-rejecting hippie folk –one guy with a guitar and stoned on LSD and MJ music. And no dance music (which of course was chronicled in “American Pie” by Don Maclean).

    SO black music went the other way: stylish, expensive outfits; rejectign MJ for cocaine/uppers; no folk music, only dance; rejection of the single guitar music in favor of synthetic, loud, big band type music with electronica (foreshadowing the 80’s obsession with the keyboard); lots of heavily made up women; songs about sex and no politics allowed. And while the hippie concerts were unruly because they allowed everyone in, the basis of Disco was that you had to be cool enough to get into the club to hear the music.

    In any event, Disco Sux.

    Like


  109. @mo:

    i agree with lurker that hipsters are more ’80s punks than ’90s grunge. their clothes are tighter and their music more electronic. and the whole unkempt and unaffected look of the hipster, ‘ironically enough, is one that is carefully and painstakingly constructed. grungers really were broke slackers.

    of course, hipsters are more a marketing demographic than a subculture. when i think grunge the first thing i think of is seattle, followed by nirvana and pearl jam. when i think of hipsters, i think of williamsburg followed by american apparel and urban outfitters.

    i would also argue that grunge was much more masculine than hipster culture, which is cartoonishly feminine

    Like


  110. Mo, true; punk was actual poor kids, these are trustafarians.

    but that explains why they can indulge in nostalgia: they have the means to live in punk-camp. But they are wusses alone, true enough. The kids in the 90s going to 70s parties were only pretending the part; the dropped nothing meaningful on the culture. It was the grunge and gansta rap etc. that we will hear about in the next round of nostalgia.

    Like


  111. ps – disco was a more radio-friendly form of funk. and funk was a big part of ’70s nostalgia in the 90s. think of kool and the gang’s jungle boogie on the pulp fiction soundtrack.

    Like


  112. yeah, Lance, hipsters exist in that scared SWPL land of ironic self-deatchment in the face of trust funds and lack of goals. They call them quarter-life crisis dopes, but really its just spoiled rich kid itis. And lance is dead on: like the term Latino, hipsters are media created, marketing ploys rather than a true subculture.

    Don’t worry, Mo, they’re younger brothers will soon enough enthrall you with their impression of grunge kids while wearing $200 flannel shirts and paying $90 for the bowl cut; oh, and beware of the Thong song in late 2019: it will be everwhere, again.

    Like


  113. here’s my take on punks and hipsters. velvet underground and some other bands of the 1960s were the forefathers of punk. they took the “drop out” mantra of that decade to a new level. they just didn’t give a shit about anything, including underlying political and social unrest. they didn’t perform at woodstock for the sake of peace etc.

    the punk genre, in general, is anarchist. see the Dead Kennedys. they seek overthrow of *anything* merely for the sake of overthrow. they enjoy destruction. period. no reconstruction needed.

    hipsters support more “democratic” means of cultural change. they would like to destroy the underlying societal monoliths, but they’d also like to recreate. they are no fan of the status quo, but they are less anarchist because they have more of a stake in society.

    they have a common enemy in the mainstream, but their ultimate goal is different. in writing this little comment here i think a good parallel for punk versus hipster is embodied by the differences in Malcolm X and MLK.

    Like


  114. Reading this, I just realized that I got cockblocked by a homosexual friend of a woman the other day. Are gay men even worse about running cockblocks for their girlfriends than straight women?

    Like


  115. chuck, I disagree: I don’t think hipsters really want to destroy the underlying societal monoliths; I think that’s just lip service. hippies did in the 60s, but hipsters are unwashed, unorganized kids in small pockets of highly visible cities. About the only thing I can think them ever doing en masse is supporting Obama, but even that was about cultural one upsmanship and keeping up with the joneses; the hipster vote did not move the 2008 election.

    hipsters, to me, are just the natural extension of lazy college kids; now with life expectancy growing and wealthy parents unable to say no, hipsters are able to extend the college layabout way of life beyond college. And like college kids with political views, their viewpoints are largely unrealized, based on false logic, and not seriously taken by themselves; they would easily cast them off if everyone else did it, too. it is only their situation that allows them to roll in their filth.

    Like


  116. welmer:

    yes, and because straight chicks know that their gay friends will cockblock them, it is almost impossible to pick up a straight chick with a gay friend, even if he isn’t cockblocking. the gay socializes the chick to where she won’t even think about going after guys when she’s with her hag.

    Like


  117. wlemer, probably; the last thing a gay man wants is a woman to find a man and be happy with just him, because she might settle down and get happy with a family and start thinking about being more conservative.

    Like


  118. *whoops, i meant “when she’s with her gay friend” at the end there.

    Like


  119. whoops, looks like I was wrong on disco night: it was 1979.

    Like


  120. Chuck

    “the 1980s seem to me to fetishize the 1950s in many ways instead of the 1960s. ”

    Yes.

    Remember Back to the Future (1985 I think)? Of all the places to go in time, they went back to the 1950’s.

    I personally would have gone back to the 40’s when International Playboys like myself were most appreciated.

    maurice

    “@lance, others – isn’t the williamsburg-hipster-wimpster phenomenon a kind of echo of the 90s grunge cobain thing?”

    Seems to be. Only they seem like they are more fluff and not self destructive and drug heavy.

    grunge-lite if you will.

    – MPM

    Like


  121. lurker:

    true enough. they pay lip-service indeed, but they are still rebeling, in their own little way, against mainstream society.

    the problem is, since they are usually weak-minded, they don’t rebel far enough. they merely rebel to the same point that others like them rebel, and they end up becoming a mainstream fad themselves. since they do have more of a stake in society, they can’t afford to rebel too far though, as punks and other anarchists are willing to do.

    as you and someone else pointed out, the hipster is akin to the boy band. it is a genre created purely for the sake of selling goods to a large audience. the hipster didn’t evolve on its own accord, but hipsters have borrowed ideas and ways of life from other genres to create a template for how they should behave. this merely coalesces into herd mentality.

    Like


  122. Are gay men even worse about running cockblocks for their girlfriends than straight women?

    No; all my gay male friends do is throw pity parties for me because I don’t get to/won’t have as much free sex and give out my number to any guy who shows interest, without asking me.

    Half my gfs require significant male attention before any other girl, unless the man is “gross” or “conservative” in which case they’ll block even harder.

    Like


  123. They true end of the 80’s was when Cobain dissed Axl Rose on one of those award shows.

    And the metal guys realized the grunge guys played harder, were louder, and partied harder.

    In a word, more hardcore.

    Less glam.

    The metal guys were finished.

    – MPM

    Like


  124. on June 29, 2009 at 6:06 pm Tupac Chopra

    z:

    “Here and Now” by Letters to Clio

    Letters to Clio?

    I’ll have to audition for them.

    Like


  125. Firepower

    “upon reaching the anger phase at non-blackness, they all go EMO and start cutting themselves to My Chemical Romance songs.

    that’s pretty much it.”

    Thanks for the explanation.

    It really did help.

    I have often asked my little brother what is up with these hipster/wimpsters. Cause I just don’t get it.

    He said much like you did, “there is nothing to get”.

    – MPM

    Like


  126. yeah, is there any music gayer than ABBA? I know the songs because they were all over the radio back in my day, but .. yeesh. (side note: if anyone wonders if Europe will ever be a true superpower, the answer is no – and exhibit A is the Eurovision music contest. Horrifyingly cheesy music, roll-on-the-floor funny cheesy, totally without irony. ABBA is the foundation of shitty, cheesy Europop the way the Beatles are the foundation of all subsequent rock-and-roll. Europe simply does not have enough black people to create a truly great and relevant strain of pop music. end side-note.)

    Nobody took on my Britney Spears challenge – fair enough. It’s more fun to talk about punk and to mock hipsters. But I remember wondering at the time what that phenomenon was all about – musically, not visually.

    How’s this for a thesis: the visual image – the sexy teen star, the pretty young boy-bands, etc. – were the main selling point, and the music a secondary, necessary evil. (the heirs to this would be the Jonas Brothers and Hannah Montana – see roissy’s post from yesterday). maybe that’s the sense in which it was an echo of the 80s: MTV and music videos were new then, and viewed as basically marketing for music sales. but 20 years later, in a more media-saturated culture, the visual image (young hot britney, etc.) had primacy.

    make sense?

    Like


  127. it’s hard to say anything meaningful about hipsters because they’re such a slippery demographic. it’s like one big game of hot potato. none of them wants to get caught liking something that suddenly goes out of style, so they take on a affected disregard towards almost everything.

    Like


  128. Chuck,

    Yeah, I think hipsters and punks have little in common.

    Real punks were more violent and had more energy than hipsters.

    And like drugs way more.

    Hipsters just seem like weaklings.

    – MPM

    Like


  129. on June 29, 2009 at 6:10 pm Tupac Chopra

    Nova:

    To me the 90s is really only about a few bands: Dave Matthews Band, Pearl Jam, Oasis

    The Gallaghers from Oasis are totally alpha. I love watching their interviews. Their alphatude is infectuous.

    Like


  130. on June 29, 2009 at 6:12 pm Veteran's Day Poppy

    Rating attractiveness: Study finds consensus among men, not women

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-06/wfu-ra062609.php

    Like


  131. http://www.somethingawful.com/d/your-band-sucks/field-guide-north.php

    This is fucking gold and hilarious to boot. It’s about the differences in the different genres ranging from punk, hipster, emo etc.

    Like


  132. hipsters are the most feminine demographic, they’re not really a sub-culture, i can think of in recent memory.

    by the way, ever notice that whenever a group becomes “androgynous”, that really mean it becomes dominated by female tastes, styles, and attitudes. more proof that societies go to shit when you remove the influence of strong male personalities.

    of course, judging by parts of the islamic world, removing female influences from society has an equally ruinous effect. the world really does require a balance of feminine and masculine.

    Like


  133. on June 29, 2009 at 6:21 pm Tupac Chopra

    Fuck Lebowski.

    Repo Man in where it’s at.

    Like


  134. “What’s in the trunk?” “Ohh… you don’t want to look in *there*”

    “What about our relationship? “Fuck that”

    Like


  135. on June 29, 2009 at 6:29 pm Tupac Chopra

    Regarding the ever accelerating loop between present trends and former nostalgia, see: Moore’s Law.

    Perhaps we really are approaching Singularity.

    Could Terrence Mckenna have been right?

    Shroom on.

    Like


  136. on June 29, 2009 at 6:33 pm Tupac Chopra

    A-Bax:

    Again, I’m biased, but Alice in Chains’ Dirt was the crowning achievement of grunge, from where I’m sitting. People forget how innovative and influential that band was (4th interval harmonies, the dark vibrato of Layne, the twangy-yet-sabbathy arrangements by Cantrell.) It only seems formulaic now because it reached admittedly short-lived perfection with Alice, and tons of bands adopted the style.

    Agreed 100%.

    Although, I do believe Tool were the breakout wonders, who still have relevance today.

    Those guys are in their forties and rock harder than most up and commers.

    Like


  137. The G Manifesto

    Firepower

    “upon reaching the anger phase at non-blackness, they all go EMO and start cutting themselves to My Chemical Romance songs.

    that’s pretty much it.”

    Thanks for the explanation.

    It really did help.

    I have often asked my little brother what is up with these hipster/wimpsters. Cause I just don’t get it.

    He said much like you did, “there is nothing to get”.

    You’re welcome.

    Without being flippant, there really is a Zen quality in grasping their social hollowness.

    Glad to share with a fellow who lays down tight advice in his blog.

    Like


  138. Who said Fuck Lebowski????

    Walter Sobchak would like a polite word with you, anti-semite.

    But not on fucking Shabboz. Never on fucking Shabboz.

    Like


  139. on June 29, 2009 at 7:01 pm Gunslingergregi

    ””””””””””””””””””””””””’Firepower
    The G Manifesto

    Firepower

    “upon reaching the anger phase at non-blackness, they all go EMO and start cutting themselves to My Chemical Romance songs.

    that’s pretty much it.”

    Thanks for the explanation.

    It really did help.

    I have often asked my little brother what is up with these hipster/wimpsters. Cause I just don’t get it.

    He said much like you did, “there is nothing to get”.

    You’re welcome.

    Without being flippant, there really is a Zen quality in grasping their social hollowness.

    Glad to share with a fellow who lays down tight advice in his blog.””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    Well I guess it comes down to do you really want to rob people and kill for no reason or rob and kill for a few dollars. You see a few real drug houses and they are shitholes. You see people go down for shit and just make a little change but go to jail for long term. People robbing convenience stores for freaking a 100 bucks. Robbing individuals for same what they got out of atm that day. Logic kicks in and you can logically see the end of the trail. In jail no freedom still on the planet. Still with problems but escalated. You realize less hassle to get rich legit if you are going to be on the planet. You may also have some ingrained morals of some sort. If not going to be on planet yea none of it matters.

    So yea prob depends on how lucky you where young so you don’t go carreer don’t give a fuck completely.

    Like


  140. @doug1:

    “…A belated welcome. It’s nice to have you here and to hear your perspectives.”

    Thank you. That made me feel all warm and fuzzy.

    😀

    You actually strike me as someone on here who has very, very intelligent things to say. I mean, almost everyone does, but I appreciate reading what you write. It’s very well thought out.

    @G:

    “Hipsters and wimpsters have completely taken over southern california.

    They were around before, but they staged a coup Almost immediately once the economy dipped.

    The striped shirted office guy can barely be found. Bottle service is RIP.”
    Do the hipsters jerk now? That’s become really popular.

    Along with that annoying song. “You’re a jerk you’re a jerk you’re a jerk.”

    gah.

    Also, are hipsters and scene kids the same thing, or are hipsters more recent? I know scene kids are like emo kids without the cutting.

    Some of the bands that spurred the scene/emo movement (AFI and HIM) come from the 90’s. Most of them started in the early 90’s. I wonder why that is.

    But yeah, now I don’t hear much about AFI or HIM anymore.

    WARNING: Do you not pick on a scene or emo or hipster kid. They will get in your face and fake drama will ensue.
    comebacks-“Your jeans once belonged to a hipster kid in their past life!”
    “Man, you’re a bitch!”
    “Why are you so mean, don’t you understand how I’m suffering inside?”

    It’s true.

    Like


  141. a-bax Also, novaseeker makes a good point that the 90s were a veritable renaissance of solid rap. (late) Ice-Cube, Snoop, Tupac, Biggie, (early) Jay-Z, Nas, and towards the end of the decade you had DMX and Eminem. And you can’t forget about the short-lived but inimitable Bone Thugs n’ Harmony

    Most of those people you named are apart of the downfall of rap. Rap music hasn’t had a renaissance yet.

    Like


  142. They have dudes like that in Miami? I thought it was a municipal rule that they have to have slicked-back hair and listen to salsa.

    Like


  143. @al —

    unless the man is “gross” or “conservative” in which case they’ll block even harder.

    Yep. Being a conservative white male is like having full blown AIDS with many young women, it seems.

    Like


  144. on June 29, 2009 at 7:21 pm Tupac Chopra

    They have dudes like that in Miami? I thought it was a municipal rule that they have to have slicked-back hair and listen to salsa.

    Like


  145. maurice

    “They have dudes like that in Miami? I thought it was a municipal rule that they have to have slicked-back hair and listen to salsa.”

    Mad hipsters in Miami.

    They are everywhere.

    – MPM

    Like


  146. maurice

    “They have dudes like that in Miami? I thought it was a municipal rule that they have to have slicked-back hair and listen to salsa.”

    BELLA ROSE Miami

    Same crap everywhere, only the girls are prettier in Miami Beach.

    – MPM

    Like


  147. Oh, I know about south beach. Scene, models, drugs, etc. architecture too- it’s one of the prettiest resort towns around, something that often gets overlooked. Has sentimental value for me as well for a different reason: it’s where I first nailed my wife and cemented our love. I just can’t see hipsters fitting into that cool, high-end,trendy (in the opposite way), heavily Latin American scene. Unless they live under the freeway overpasses or something.

    Like


  148. on June 29, 2009 at 7:52 pm Tupac Chopra

    The hipsters in Miami are in the gentrified downtown area.

    Wynwood, Design District, etc.

    Like


  149. @Tupac
    “The hipsters in Miami are in the gentrified downtown area.

    Wynwood, Design District, etc.”
    Yeah, kids who go to school in the Design District, or Gables, are most certainly hipster.

    Everywhere else…idk.

    For the longest time, almost every girl in Miami wore shorts with boots. I don’t mean ugg boots, I mean actual leather boots. It was weird.

    Like


  150. I cant believe you guys have gone down this music tangent.

    – the fact is roissy can f-close the friend as well…

    ..keep your eyes on the prize

    Like


  151. Great article on just how much women hate beta males, written by a hagged out harpie who is divorcing her beta husband. Long but worth reading. You can find it here: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200907/divorce/3

    Money quotes:

    Leaning forward heavily across the bar, she swirls her glass and huskily drops the bomb: “I have to tell you—since we talked, I too have started thinking divorce.” “No!” we girls exclaim. With a stab of nausea, I suddenly feel as though now that I’ve touched my pool of friends with my black pen, a cloud of ink is enveloping them.

    “You can’t!” Renata cries. “Ian—he’s the perfect father! The perfect husband! Look at this … kitchen!

    “Ian won’t have sex with me,” Rachel says flatly. “He has not touched my body in two years. He says it’s because I’ve gained weight.” Again, we stoutly protest, but she goes on. “And he thinks I’m a bad mother—he says I’m sloppy and inattentive.”

    Racer X: Men are not attracted to middle age fatties.

    Rachel sees herself as a failed mother, and is depressed and chronically overworked at her $120,000-a-year job (which she must cling to for the benefits because Ian freelances). At night, horny and sleepless, she paces the exquisite kitchen, gobbling mini Dove bars. The main breadwinner, Rachel is really the Traditional Dad, but instead of being handed her pipe and slippers at six, she appears to be marooned in a sexless remodeling project with a passive-aggressive Competitive Wife.

    “You know, it’s funny,” says Ellen, after a moment of gloom. (Passing note: Ellen has been married for 18 years, and she also, famously, never has sex. There were the hot 20s with Ron and the making-the-babies 30s, and in the 40s there is … nothing. Ellen had originally picked Ron because she was tired of all the bad boys, and Ron was settle-down husband material. What she didn’t know was that after the age of 38, thanks to Mr. Very Settled-Down, she was never going to have regular sex with a man again.)

    Racer X: She was tired of all the bad boys, i.e., fucked a lot alphas then married a beta. Now hates beta.

    “To work, to parent, to housekeep, to be the ones who schedule “date night,” only to be reprimanded in the home by male kitchen bitches, and then, in the bedroom, to be ignored—it’s a bum deal. And then our women’s magazines exhort us to rekindle the romance. You rarely see men’s magazines exhorting men to rekindle the romance.”

    Racer X: Got to love he phrase “male kitchen bitches” to describe the dutiful husband who loves to cook for his wife.

    “Interestingly, according to EnlightenNext magazine, some northern European women are reportedly eschewing their progressive northern European male counterparts and dating Muslims, who are more like “real men.”

    Racer X: It would only make sense that most Northern European women would despise the hyperfeminized Euro male of today and go for the more masculine Muslims. Just another indication that Europe is finished. They really need to get over Adolf Hitler over there and grow some balls again.

    I am sure the women in this article have turned into overweight middle age bitch hags but it sheds light upon the mindset of the upper middle class world of beta husbands and their unhappy, malcontent wives. It also reminds me of the article Roissy had a while ago on the NY Times reporter who spent all his income on his ungrateful, 40 something wife who now despises him. You know, the one who wanted his wife to hold him in her arms and tell him everything was going to be ok. Herbus maximus.

    Don’t marry. Ever. Most modern American women are to be avoided except for a good fuck. Women will despise you if you are a beta provider. I think that pretty much sums up Roissyism..and correctly so.

    Racer X has enjoyed many years of quality pussy and intends to do so as long as he can. It can be done.

    Like


  152. Racer X:

    They really need to get over Adolf Hitler over there and grow some balls again.

    Don’t marry. Ever. Most modern American women are to be avoided except for a good fuck.

    a-fucking-men

    Like


  153. @Max A – maybe, maybe not. didn’t quite go down that way.

    @GMan, Tupac – any shots of you guys in your respective Miami clips? Gman, it wasn’t you who stabbed that club chick in the rest room, was it? all for a vodka promo. at least she died for a good cause…

    @RacerX – whiskey and Nova both posted that here last week and have some good stuff about it on their blogs. Evil hags indeed.

    Like


  154. Racer X

    Getting divorced in your 40’s is really a great deal for a guy, the fact is as long as he’s in shape*

    1) he can get a bachelor pad in the city
    2) bring back a new one each night for a sleep over
    3) avoid the massive financial liability of supporting an old woman for your whole life . (as distinct from looking after your kids to age 18)

    Like


  155. I think Roissy is too busy to read this sort of thing now, but for interested observers of today’s man-destroying feminists and their ways, check out Ross Douthat’s current essay in the New York Times:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/opinion/29douthat.html

    According to Douthat, one Sandra Tsing Loh, a writer for the Atlantic who had an affair and then dumped her husband, is one “of the nation’s finest essayists.” Judge for yourselves.

    (Yes I know this isn’t really relevant to this post but I know that many of you will get a bang out of it)

    Like


  156. one “of the nation’s finest essayists.”

    who only earns a measly $120K – what a joke – thats not what I call a “career” – face it honey its a Job

    Like


  157. on June 29, 2009 at 9:18 pm Gunslingergregi

    “”””””””””””””””””””””Max A
    Racer X

    Getting divorced in your 40’s is really a great deal for a guy, the fact is as long as he’s in shape*

    1) he can get a bachelor pad in the city
    2) bring back a new one each night for a sleep over
    3) avoid the massive financial liability of supporting an old woman for your whole life . (as distinct from looking after your kids to age 18)””””””””””””””””””

    Max he doesn’t have to be in shape. My dad pulled a decent blond after his divorce/anullment. Anyway his moral christian upbringing fucked his head on really getting with other woman. Plus fucked his head on what happened after 25 years marriage. I go to a resteraunt with the dude on R&R and he has some chick working on her masters degree fauning on him. Anyway he is not in shape and 60 he he he

    He is natural storyteller though of life experiences and been through some crazy shit.

    Like


  158. on June 29, 2009 at 9:21 pm Gunslingergregi

    ps he wasn’t taking advantage of this shit. Catholosism can mess you up. Luckily I don’t have that problem or maybe not luckily time will tell. I just don’t see how it is better to get screwed over after 25 years without doing all the stuff you really want to do and be honest about it.

    Like


  159. aha

    the NYT doing what it does best: sneering autopsy on fresh, topical, stinking corpses

    …skip the diagnosis on the next living problem in the waiting room

    Like


  160. Butters,
    Thanks for the “grahic”, lol! I liked that, maybe I’ll include some of my own in the future.
    From what I can tell, *you’re still in a “Mexican standoff”* w/her, & if the cockblock moves from your right and swings around the table the long way around to your Target, she simply snatches her up. Your “boxing in” the target, by getting right next to her while she’s still next to the table makes the cockblock’s job much harder, more arkward, and that’s the point. I think you could have pulled it off if you had a few more minutes, doing what I suggested could potentially have bought that crucial time.

    As for “pre-attraction”, when it comes to what I consider Solid Game-killers like bars and clubs, I say whatever works to get you more facetime, lol. I get mistaken for somebody all the time, and I’ve learned to use that over the years to my advantage. So yea, definitely use it if you can, it doesn’t mean act like you’re so and so, you know what I mean.

    As for bars and clubs, like I said, they’re tougher to work Game in because their very nature is such that you’ve gotta get some kind of hook really quick, and that’s *hard*. Some guys are really in their element in this environment and more power to em; for me, I don’t like em. The only reason why I go to clubs/bars is either to hangout w/my team, or, to run some social experiments, or to do more observational research. But to actually meet and pickup Women? Nah. if such a thing happens, that’s only gravy.

    But again, that’s just me.

    As to the larger topic of 80s period music, I’m personally a BIG fan of 70s & 80s R&B, Soul/Funk music: of course Michael Jackson/the Jacksons, Chic, the Ojays, the GAP Band, the Ohio Players, the Isley Brothers, the Brothers Johnson, Tower of Power, Mandrill, WAR, Cheryl Lynn, Stephanie Mills, Denise Williams, Teddy Pendergrass, Rick James & Teen Marie, Chuck Brown & the Soul Searchers, Vaughn Mason & Crew, GQ, Frankie Beverly & Maze, Cameo, Earth, Wind & Fire, etc. Much of the music of the period was influenced by the Disco sound, which itself got its start actually in the Black & Latin Gay community (where House music also originated) and sprung from there. It was political to the extent that previously ignored or neglected segments of society were striving to be heard if you will. It also had a big influence on the styles and fashions and overall “mood” of the period, extending into the early 80s, where synth-heavy funk came in.

    I should also say that Hip Hop really began to take root here as well, I’m talking about the early 80s-the Sugarhill Gang’s “Rapper’s Delight” was set to Chic’s “Good Times” track, while Africa Bambatta & The Soul Sonic Force’s “Planet Rock” was based in large part by Germany’s Kraftwerk, particularly their techno-electronica hits “Numbers” and “Trans-Europe Express”.

    Here in Philly, and in many Black areas of America’s inner cities, caberet dance parties happen all the time, and I say to all reading this you OWE it to yourself to attend. Be ready to see an older crowd, 40 and above usually, but don’t get it twisted they have a great time dancing the night away. Personally, the 70s and much of the 80s was arguably thee singlebest period for sheer dance music along the lines of the groups and artists I mentioned.

    O

    Like


  161. I think that music per se is extremely important but I think we are overlooking the role of personal context. I mean, the best songs you will ever hear in your life might have croaked & screeched out of cheap AM radio in a rusted out Chevy as you got it on with Mary Sue in the backseat.
    Likewise, to make the car stereo system sound better get a faster car.
    Do any of you play guitar? If you do, you will know that 95% of R&R is built on a few basic 3 chord progressions. If you can play “Wild Thing” (1965) you can instantly figure out “Smells Like Teen Spirit”(1995) and at least half of todays catelog just by transposing a few bits..

    Like


  162. on June 29, 2009 at 10:08 pm FANATICAL SELFISHNESS OF MODERN AMERICAN WOMEN

    Good example:

    “But this—the unhappy husband—this is but collateral damage for twenty-first-century women, because at its core, maintaining a vibrant sex life with one’s man, woman, or even joy-giving appliance (and there’s no shame in that) is, like anything, all about us.” – http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200703/loh-libido

    Like


  163. “They really need to get over Adolf Hitler over there and grow some balls again.”

    Even better, instead of them getting over Hitler they should get another Hitler.

    Like


  164. @Options:

    okok, I’m all for jokes…but what?

    Like


  165. on June 29, 2009 at 10:26 pm Multiracial hellohole USA

    About that above linked Loh article – http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200907/divorce/3 – it is clear that Loh is some mega-materialistic 95% lesbian Asian-American. And her ex husband is probably some stupid dorky WASP-American.

    Still though, research has proven over and over again that multiracial relationships, especially long term ones like marriages, have a MUCH higher probability of FAILURE. The trust and overall similarity factor is the key, and both things are lacking in couples who aren’t of the same race.

    The lesson here? Marry/breed with your own racial or ethnic kind (long term relations), but pump and dump the racial-ethnic others (short term relations).

    Like


  166. Yeah the Loh article is just another of a few from her where her own self-absorption and narcissism are just displayed as a kind of textual theater, really.

    She has no clue who she is as a person. And at 47, that’s pathetic.

    Like


  167. Ok, since we’re putting up articles about mean women.

    http://www.fmylife.com/love/3331987

    wth.

    Poor guy.

    “Today, I planned a romantic dinner with rose petals, the whole lot, for my ex-girlfriend to win her back. When I took her to my house I told her to guess what I had planned, to which she replied “I hope it’s not a stupid romantic dinner with rose petals and shit.” FML”

    Like


  168. “According to Douthat, one Sandra Tsing Loh, a writer for the Atlantic who had an affair and then dumped her husband, is one “of the nation’s finest essayists.” Judge for yourselves.”

    I think he was talking about Nehring when he said that, but still. Douthat is following David Brooks in being the “nice conservative” token non-liberal white guy routine over at the NYT.

    The NYT should just rename itself the SWPLT.

    Like


  169. “wth.

    Poor guy.”

    @Mandy! XD —

    She wanted him to take her. He was being beta. It’s the way many women are — just the reality of life. That rose petal stuff only works once you have established alpha-ness. Then it is cherished. But if you are reading as beta to her (and I suspect this guy was, given her words), that kind of thing reeks of betatude and desperation.

    Like


  170. on June 29, 2009 at 10:46 pm By: HL Mencken

    RacerX: “Don’t marry. Ever.”

    Great advice, RacerX…HL Mencken agrees:

    “One of the results of all this is a subtle reinforcement of the contempt with which women normally regard their husbands–a contempt grounded, as I have shown, upon a sense of intellectual superiority. To this primary sense of superiority is now added the disparagement of a concrete comparison, and over all is an ineradicable resentment of the fact that such a comparison has been necessary. In other words, the typical husband is a second-rater, and no one is better aware of it than his wife. He is, taking averages, one who has been loved, as the saying goes, by but one woman, and then only as a second, third or nth choice. If any other woman had ever loved him, as the idiom has it, she would have married him, and so made him ineligible for his present happiness. But the average bachelor is a man who has been loved, so to speak,
    by many women, and is the lost first choice of at least some of them. Here presents the unattainable, and hence the admirable; the husband is the attained and disdained.”

    http://infomotions.com/etexts/gutenberg/dirs/etext98/ndwmn11.htm

    Like


  171. Mandy

    The thing is, I do not see the chick in that story as “mean”. She just blurted out the truth, which is usually a good thing for a guy to hear – if he can hear it.
    Some women have found me to be fascinating and others have never even noticed me. I have a very imperfect understanding of why it has happened that way in most cases.
    The main thing is to go with what works whether or not you can analyze it in depth.

    Like


  172. You left out the most revealing quote from that Loh article, RacerX; it reads: “If high-revving women are sexually frustrated, let them have some sort of French arrangement where they have two men, the postfeminist model dad building shelves, cooking bouillabaise, and ignoring them in the home, and the occasional fun-loving boyfriend the kids never see.

    Goodbye Western civilization.

    Like


  173. @novaseeker

    Yeah the Loh article is just another of a few from her where her own self-absorption and narcissism are just displayed as a kind of textual theater

    those damn asian girl scribblers always cheat with their mirror then stab their poor guy in the back when they smell Pulitzer

    plus, they all drive 30mph on the freeways

    Like


  174. on June 29, 2009 at 11:28 pm Tupac Chopra

    Women are whores.

    For us men, the “trick” in all this is in pretending to be gentlemen.

    You must never rub women’s noses in what it is they truly want. They *must* help them keep their illusion of pride. It is our job to help them maintain that illusion.

    You must talk with civilty to their Mind, paying lip service to “Romance” and “Equality”, while at the same time treating their Pussies in the manner they truly desire.

    Which is to say —

    beating those pussies up with your dominance and aloofness.

    Many reformed and reforming betas on this blog are still stuck in the overt asshole stage.

    That only works for so long.

    It’s true that women prefer wolves over sheep.

    But what REALLY works is being a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

    Like


  175. @Tupac:

    “But what REALLY works is being a wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

    I thought that was only for Halloween.

    Like


  176. I thought that was only for Halloween.

    boring.
    the comments lately have really degenerated into dull shit.

    Like


  177. My apologies.

    Like


  178. Although, not to be offensive, perhaps the quality of the comments are a reflection of certain…blog posts.

    Like


  179. smarmbitch:
    Although, not to be offensive, perhaps the quality of the comments are a reflection of certain…blog posts.

    no, it’s you, and the rest of the tard crew. they know who they are.

    don’t push it mandy, or you’ll be on my shit list.
    and you don’t want to be there.

    Like


  180. What did I do? :/

    Like


  181. i don’t know that it’s necessarily the blog posts. a lot of the people who comment simply lack roissy’s subtlety and rhetorical ability. that’s what happens when you write a blog like this; the sycophants come out.

    you may be a victim of your own success, roissy.

    Like


  182. on June 29, 2009 at 11:50 pm Tupac Chopra

    I rather enjoyed this walk down the musical memory lane, Roissy.

    Anti-cockblockers?

    Rare enough to be a non-issue.

    Assume the best, prepare for the worst, I say.

    Like


  183. Women are whores. . . .

    And here I thought the point was the lovely surprise of that woman who helped a fellow out, helped two people get to know each other better (even if a certain author enjoys writing about women in a lyrically intermittently-offensive way.)

    So this post, at least, is about how ladies can rock. The cockbacker ain’t acting whorish. And perhaps a little lady love is also awesome.

    (also, the friend sounds awesome (the target high maintenance); if I get off my duff and move back maurice may need to hook a girl up. )

    Like


  184. the sycophants come out.

    all i want are commenters who are clever, witty, funny, interesting, insightful, and/or SUCCINCT, whether it comes from sycophants or sworn enemies.
    is that too much too ask?

    Like


  185. on June 29, 2009 at 11:57 pm Tupac Chopra

    And here I thought the point was the lovely surprise of that woman who helped a fellow out, helped two people get to know each other better

    Beta-bait, even if true.

    FWIW, I’ve known women to say the same thing to a beta to get him to invest in a chick who is a known thug-lover, in the hopes that the dupe will think his efforts mean anything other than getting drawn into the reformed whore’s web.

    So this post, at least, is about how ladies can rock. The cockbacker ain’t acting whorish. And perhaps a little lady love is also awesome.

    It’s nice when it happens.

    (also, the friend sounds awesome (the target high maintenance)

    You mean, “the target sounds hot”

    Like


  186. on June 29, 2009 at 11:59 pm Tupac Chopra

    all i want are commenters who are clever, witty, funny, interesting, insightful, and/or SUCCINCT, whether it comes from sycophants or sworn enemies.
    is that too much too ask?

    The center cannot hold.

    Like


  187. is that too much too ask?

    probably

    Like


  188. roissy-

    Was that a rhetorical question? If the majority of men are betas, the majority of women stupid whores, then the number of people who will be able to fit that criteria is rather…miniscule.

    Like


  189. The center cannot hold.

    sigh, i know. the id unleashed cares not for satisfactory reading experiences.

    then the number of people who will be able to fit that criteria is rather…miniscule.

    i’ve met many a whore who were delightful company.
    and many a beta who could be insightful when the subject moved them.

    Like


  190. roissy-

    “i’ve met many a whore who were delightful company.
    and many a beta who could be insightful when the subject moved them.”

    In the road of life, you’ve covered more miles than I have.

    Like


  191. In the road of life, you’ve covered more miles than I have.

    it’s not the number of miles that matters as much as it is

    the style in which you’ve traveled them.

    life is lived with the top down and the rearview mirror busted.

    Like


  192. At least a few forms of Beta life are lived gazing into the rearview mirror.

    Like


  193. roissy

    “it’s not the number of miles that matters as much as it is

    the style in which you’ve traveled them.

    life is lived with the top down and the rearview mirror busted.”

    Live fast and die young then, eh?

    I prefer to walk.

    Like


  194. Eventually this discussion will get around to the horrible/great movie “Natural Born Killers” (the directors cut)

    Like


  195. Live fast and die young then, eh?

    i prefer live fast and never die. why sell yourself short?

    I prefer to walk.

    walking is for closers.

    Like


  196. in the hopes that the dupe will think his efforts mean anything other than getting drawn into the reformed whore’s web.

    I don’t know what this means, and it sounds implausible, but then I think about some embarrassing high school/college exploits, and I still don’t understand but I’m thinking ‘sure’.

    It’s nice when it happens. I think so too; I also think it happens ineptly more often .

    You mean, “the target sounds hot” At least until they’re 36, and then it just means “difficult”.

    Like


  197. roissy-
    “i prefer live fast and never die.”

    You’re preparing yourself for disappointment.

    Although, in essence, everyone has that mentality.

    “walking is for closers.”

    Or for people who would rather not drive along a set road.

    Like


  198. You’re preparing yourself for disappointment.

    speak for yourself.

    Or for people who would rather not drive along a set road.

    who said anything about set roads?

    Like


  199. roissy-

    “speak for yourself.”

    So have you discovered the philosopher’s stone?

    Or do you believe in the eternal existence of the soul?

    “who said anything about set roads?”

    You did say you were driving.

    Now I feel terribly uncomfortable about walking. Are pedestrians 5 points or 10 points?

    Like


  200. Oops, just noticed that the Sandra Tsing Loh piece has already been mentioned hereabouts. Hope Roissy reads it instead of wasting all that time banging hot chicks.

    Like


  201. […] I just read the story about the anti-cockblocker. […]

    Like


  202. @Katto:

    “Hope Roissy reads it instead of wasting all that time banging hot chicks.”
    I highly doubt that most normal men find that past time a waste of time.

    Like


  203. Women are whores.

    For us men, the “trick” in all this is in pretending to be gentlemen.

    Or you can maintain your dignity and not indulge in their crap and hold out for an adult.

    Like


  204. on June 30, 2009 at 12:52 am Tupac Chopra

    DA:

    Women are whores.

    For us men, the “trick” in all this is in pretending to be gentlemen.

    Or you can maintain your dignity and not indulge in their crap and hold out for an adult.

    “Hold out for an adult”?

    How’s that working out for you, DA?

    Do you think you will find your “adult” and finally be happy?

    Rhetorical.

    Even if she was an adult, she wouldn’t be wearing those nails and trashy clothes nor have that tranny adams apple you so cherish.

    So, what was your point again?

    BTW:

    http://www.amazon.com/Final-Exit-Third-Practicalities-Self-Deliverance/dp/0385336535

    hth

    Like


  205. go go trollzilla!:
    Or you can maintain your dignity and not indulge in their crap and hold out for an adult.

    too much time on my hands….
    da da da da daa
    too much time on my hands….
    ooh i don’t know what to do…

    Like


  206. on June 30, 2009 at 1:00 am Tupac Chopra

    I say we all start a Death Pool on DA.

    Like


  207. It makes you wonder when DA has time to masturbate to the pr0n he worships. >.>’

    Like


  208. “It makes you wonder when DA has time to masturbate to the pr0n he worships.”

    Perhaps he is typing one handedly.

    While you chat with him.

    🙂

    Like


  209. @cptnapalm:

    You just had to do it, didn’t you?

    Like


  210. on June 30, 2009 at 1:18 am Gunslingergregi

    Need a post on when male boss that amazon treated like shit leaves and she is now your boss for a few weeks and what to do. Just start the ass beating or should it be more subtle.

    Like


  211. on June 30, 2009 at 1:22 am Gunslingergregi

    a. Ask for transfer because there are no people who look like you within office environment.

    b. Quite and sleep long hours while doing nothing.

    c. Threaten to kill her kids if she tries to treat you like the other guy

    d. Sick same lady on her that took care of last issue.

    e. Make fun of her hair at least once a day.

    Like


  212. on June 30, 2009 at 1:23 am Gunslingergregi

    Cross out c she has no kids at over 30 years old she has nothing to lose.

    Like


  213. Mandy

    If you are with a guy and you want to have sex, just grab his package and give it a stroke or two. If you are with him and don’t want to fuck, just grab it and stroke a few hundred times.
    It is simple how to communicate with a guy.

    Like


  214. How’s that working out for you, DA?

    Much better than your quest for a non-flakey white girl in South Florida.

    Even if she was an adult, she wouldn’t be wearing those nails and trashy clothes nor have that tranny adams apple you so cherish.

    Then I guess I’ll have to forgo sex and long-term relationships. I’m just not willing to compromise or endure silliness and stupidity from people who should act like adults.

    trollzilla

    I appreciate your new nickname. 🙂

    It makes you wonder when DA has time to masturbate to the pr0n he worships.

    Between the hours of 3 and 6 AM in the morning. Mind you, I’m basically on de facto abstinence since my niece and nephew are staying over for the next week or so.

    Like


  215. on June 30, 2009 at 1:34 am Tupac Chopra

    How’s that working out for you, DA?

    Much better than your quest for a non-flakey white girl in South Florida.

    Oh, so you’ve found an “adult” who meshes with your personality.

    Tell us more.

    Even if she was an adult, she wouldn’t be wearing those nails and trashy clothes nor have that tranny adams apple you so cherish.

    Then I guess I’ll have to forgo sex and long-term relationships. I’m just not willing to compromise or endure silliness and stupidity from people who should act like adults.

    “Forgo sex and long-term relationships”?

    But I thought you recommended holding out for an “adult”…?

    I’m confused.

    Are you saying one should not engage in game behavior and wait for an “adult”?

    Or are you saying there is no such thing as an “adult” and it’s better to wank your you Ebony Toothpick by the flickering glow of your computer monitor?

    Please clarify — I thought you were offering an alternative to my proposal — an alternative that made at least some sort of sense in the reality the rest of us normal people inhabit.

    Like


  216. Mandy:

    Sorry, but you just had this huge flashing neon sign attached to your head, positively screaming “DO IT”

    I do rather like you, btw. Considering the last couple of exchanges, I could certainly see how that might not be entirely clear.

    Like


  217. Oh, so you’ve found an “adult” who meshes with your personality.

    A failed joke on my part. Sadly, you win by default

    But I thought you recommended holding out for an “adult”…?

    Since apparently per your comments, there are no female adults, then the only choice is to abandon any idea of a relationship with a woman. If you’re willing to put up with childishness, then one should learn game and deal with the it.

    Like


  218. Roissy: “boring. the comments lately have really degenerated into dull shit.”

    Uh oh…is this here bright-star of the blogosphere, Roissy’s, finally beginning to fade?

    Nah – Roissy, you of course have a definite talent for writing. Why write it for free here on the internetz? Why not start submitting some of what you think is your best work to some various social or cultural magazines, like some of those fancy-schmancy NYC ones?

    They might pay you for some of your stuff, ya know.

    Like


  219. All the best works have been cranked out in rehersals – from Shakespeare to Rocky Horror Picture Show. A whole gang of creative thugs can push certain boundaries harder than a lone freak working entirely on his own.
    Maybe Mister Roissy is inviting us to help him write his book? Is so, he will be in good company.

    Like


  220. @cptnapalm:

    “Sorry, but you just had this huge flashing neon sign attached to your head, positively screaming “DO IT”

    With an arrow pointing to me?

    “I do rather like you, btw. Considering the last couple of exchanges, I could certainly see how that might not be entirely clear.”

    I just assume the best of everyone until they prove otherwise.

    I hope you realize that you’ve probably just labled yourself as part of the “tard crew” by association. It’s not too late to back out. 😛

    Like


  221. I can’t recall getting too much help from “anti-cockblockers” but the parents of nearly every chick I dated or merely befriended when I was in highschool/college used to push their daughters to go out with me. I’d break up with the chick and I’d see her parents in the store or something and they’d light up to see me and ask all sorts of nosy questions.

    Back then I couldn’t for the life of me understand what kind of parent would trust me with their daughter? I’m must have exuded some sort of pussy wussy vibe or something.

    Like


  222. Goodbye Western civilization

    I missed the part about France not being western. seriously, the french model even comes with better food.

    Like


  223. Perhaps he is typing one handedly.

    this scene is as repulsive as the sex between the aliens in that sigourney weaver movie.

    Like


  224. on June 30, 2009 at 9:44 am Dr. Grzlickson

    “this scene is as repulsive as the sex between the aliens in that sigourney weaver movie.”

    Please tell me you mean Galaxy Quest and not Aliens.

    Like


  225. @al- i’m with you, this wasn’t really a girl-hate post. although there are enough of those, here, i suppose. having witnessed the events, both girls were attractive and nice, and neither seemed high-maintenance on first encounter – not a reliable indicator, i know. both were early 30s so not remotely in that screaming-despration/cusp-of-cougardom zone. it was really nice all around, actually – a pleasant evening and a pleasant post to reflect that.

    hook you up? aww.. now i’m the yenta of the board, at least this week. sure, if you come back to DC I/we can wing for you — if you’re good-looking enough. (send a pic- heh.) the women of roissyworld, who come and contribute despite the topic of strong male prerogative, are a special breed – one to be appreciated.

    Like


  226. also, @mencken – wanted to acknowledge that great quote from the Sage of Baltimore. I’ve only read excerpts/collections, and his total writings are too enormous to get through. but it looks like he perfectly described the alpha/beta divergence in female psychology perfectly, in the 1920s. same thing we discuss here every week. not bad for a guy who lived at home with his mother his whole life.

    Like


  227. I got bored reading this article but it’s certainly relevant to this site and maybe even enough for a blog post (considering how low the bar is):

    http://chronicle.com/free/v55/i40/40sommers.htm

    titled “Persistent Myths in Feminist Scholarship” and its written by a female scholar.

    Like


  228. I once was required to read H. L. Mencken (and Thurber) and count those times as rewarding experiences. I recall, HLM did marry some young stuff.

    the anti cb is a rare enough event to warrant discussion

    when one encounters a near extinct species, it must be reported.

    an exception to the rule is always of interest

    Like


  229. @maurice, highly unlikely but thank you for be willing to help a girl out, assuming I pass muster. 🙂 I think we should all just assume I do, benefits us all.

    Like


  230. @al- well, you asked, i obliged. although hard to see how you’d miss if you go to museums of sex with your dates … 🙂 and what about those gay buds in NYC? don’t they do as good a job setting you up for dates as any straight guy could …?

    Like


  231. Generally, you ignore what a woman says and focus on what she does. They usually over-promise and under-deliver.

    Like


  232. Ha, I wanted to meet the cool female friend! Someone who requires that little maintenance is a gem. Especially now as some of my favorite pals have started becoming that aging career girl; I swear, it’s get ’em a toy stat or wait for the meltdown. 5 years ago martinis led to fun times, now they = crying meltdowns if there isn’t a clear prospect in sight.

    Like


  233. @al – sigh. men age like wine, women age like milk. brutal and unfair, but true. roissy’s lesson is that girls should be less picky and start “settling” (= being a little more interested in nice-guy males) at much younger ages, instead of partying around. if so, then is “toy” really the right concept for your pals in that situation? or is it a more-of-the-same approach, with a shortening shelf-life? see, you get free advice here as well as matchmaking services …

    i liked the cool gf too. what, you think *she* would fix you up in DC better than us? ha. maybe, maybe not. or maybe you just wanted to hang with her to avoid crying over your appletinis yet again …

    Like


  234. No no, just straight friendship. I’m not yet seeking the hook up from any of y’all, especially since I’ve already experienced a “put out in three or you’re out” sitch and my heart was not pleased.

    Toys is being a wee bit flippant, but as they’re still not, imho, being honest with themselves about what they want and how, I think it best describes their behavior. Regardless, they’re good friends to me and lovely when not obsessing over men, and have fabulous shoes. I’ve just had to learn how to manage them at after work cocktails.

    And yes, they (at least superficially) fit some of the “bwahaha, just wait until you’re old slag!” around here. A real wake-up call for me.

    Like


  235. on June 30, 2009 at 1:28 pm Gunslingergregi

    ””””””al
    5 years ago martinis led to fun times, now they = crying meltdowns if there isn’t a clear prospect in sight.”””””””””””””””””””””

    Dang things are changeing that is for sure. Truth is starting to flow like a river. Yea sometimes you don’t want to know certain things but it will set you free or will it.

    Like


  236. An interesting article talks about firefly PUAs who ensnare their female targets by mimicking the flash rhythms of other alpha fireflies. But firefly game is not for the faint of heart; those same flash rhythms that endear male fireflies to females also attract nasty predators. Think twice before responding to a female firefly’s shit test.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/30/science/30firefly.html?8dpc

    Like


  237. @LR – i’m partially with you on this, actually. i don’t like how the some of comments can tend toward crudeness or misogyny here – pickup is not really formisogynists, after all. i stick around because the regulars are emphatically not like that. but you have to take the bad with the good, i suppose. if you look carefully, most comments are actually not “tearing up” women.

    @al- shoe obsession? aging, dissatisfied-with-men gf’s? cosmo happy hours? please tell us you’re not a total SATC cliche … oh wait, you’re from SoCal, so probably not.

    so, i guess you didn’t put out in three? why not, if you liked the guy? if your heart was not pleased it must have meant that the little organ was happy to have him around. but you have two other organs to consider: brain (hardest to please) and loins (easiest). heart can follow if these two are happy. no?

    Like


  238. “no, it’s you, and the rest of the tard crew. they know who they are.”

    The comments have been getting progressively worse here for months. Without intense moderation (why bother) it won’t change.

    I just scroll through most until people worth reading show up.

    Like


  239. LR in agreement with Roissy that our collective trip down memory lane degenerated into “dull shit”?

    Sycophancy or Combativeness, you be the judge!

    PS – @ chic noir: I’d love to follow up on your comment about what you’re calling “the downfall of rap”, but I dare not further offend the surprisingly delicate sensibilities of our beleaguered entertainer-in-chief. 🙂

    Like


  240. the problem with comments is the purge of the haters. kthlullah is not here anymore, TJF is a truly missed hater, the SWPL beta boys like Paul LJBF Gowder and Ian cuckolded in Hamburg are not commenting anymore, the feminist harpies do not show any consistent presence

    I really miss the haters

    Like


  241. If Roissy posts something NICE about a woman

    by “nice things about a woman” I understand “porn”

    Like


  242. on June 30, 2009 at 2:11 pm Gunslingergregi

    I don’t know roissy we have had honest thought from al and lr.

    Arpagus has actually french kissed a woman. What the fuck could make it bettter.

    At default how do you look up the stats for teh blog on hits.

    Maybe you should toss a couple adds up. You were talking about loot in the last few.

    Like


  243. As per Mystery Method, and my own experience of multiple examples, if you handle the seduction competently, it will take an average of 7 hours to bed a woman, from the time you first meet her.

    There is absolutely no need for a man to buy dinner for a woman, or even buy her a drink. This entitlement mentality of women is itself a shit test, and even airheads like Chic Noir insist that buying things for a woman is a must.

    It is not. It is a shit test, that can be easily dismissed.

    Like


  244. @obs – i agree with you, but non-slutty women are a little more complicated in their motivations, i think. for guys it’s mostly about sex in the beginning, but for women that’s only one of several decision-triggering areas. she may be attracted but know he’s not LTR material, in which case alpha game can be viewed as turning those other switches off. ASD plays a role- putting out early goes against what most women were taught, parts of their biological programming, and powerful peer pressure. etc. for girls just out to get laid, you are right. i read al’s post a little differently.

    Like


  245. on June 30, 2009 at 2:14 pm Gunslingergregi

    Roissy didn’t even get a fuck close on the apocalypse. I think it is dissapointing really. But yea do you want to quite do you fucking feel tired then quite you slime sucking fuckwad quuuuuiiiiiittttt do it now. Don’t fucking wait jump in your car and drive a 120 into a brick wall and live in infamy.

    Does that help?

    Do you feel better?

    Are you done being a whiney bitch?

    You even have lr cosigning your shit for gods sake he he he

    Like


  246. start “settling” (= being a little more interested in nice-guy males)

    Even if you discount sub-human males like myself, who would *really* want to date boring, fuddy-duddy, herbish beta males?

    Like


  247. @DA – boring, fuddy-duddy, herbish females? these may want the alphas the same way the average beta wants the 9s and 10s. in the end, both sides have to settle for mates in their own attractiveness range, which usually includes shared social class/race and common intersets, background, etc. again am not talking about the bar scene, cock carousel, etc. here – about LTRs.

    the problem is because some women can fuck the alphas when they’re young and attractive, they think they can eventually marry one of them, one significantly above their natural pair-bonding range. this is the source of their pain and confusion. but others among them realize they’re not going to end up with a brad pitt clone, just as most men realize they’re not going to end up with a 9.

    that doesn’t mean they can’t be happy with who they end up with, as long as that mate exhibits generally masculine qualities and LTR game – it just means being realistic, which most people are able to do.

    Like


  248. @DA:

    obviously masturbation and the verbal lashings you receive here are not enough to meet your deep-seated need for abuse. you should just bite the bullet and spring for a professional dominatrix.

    it might help you purge all that self-loathing and allow you accomplish something in your life.

    Like


  249. “the problem is because some women can fuck the alphas when they’re young and attractive, they think they can eventually marry one of them, one significantly above their natural pair-bonding range. this is the source of their pain and confusion. but others among them realize they’re not going to end up with a brad pitt clone, just as most men realize they’re not going to end up with a 9.

    that doesn’t mean they can’t be happy with who they end up with, as long as that mate exhibits generally masculine qualities and LTR game – it just means being realistic, which most people are able to do.”

    @maurice —

    Yes.

    The most problematic ones are the ones who were riding the alpha cock carousel in their 20s. As you say, these often develop an alpha-cock entitlement syndrome, such that when the time comes to actually find someone for an LTR/marriage, they are aiming well out of their LTR league. I think at some point it dawns on them that the alphacock guys will more than happily bed them, but would never commit to them — in other words that there are two markets: the casual sex market, on the one hand, and the LTR/commitment market, on the other. Realizing that their ability to stretch “up” is more limited in the latter than in the former can make some of these women rather bitter, and also make them a bad risk for cheating and divorce.

    But having said that, there are many other women who are realistic, and who know that committed LTRs are most often going to be with well-matched partners.

    I honestly think DA prefers to think the way he does so that he can avoid doing the work required to attract a compatible mate in his league. If you convince yourself that doing this has no value, it absolves you of the need to do it, I think.

    “you should just bite the bullet and spring for a professional dominatrix.”

    @Lance —

    Chuckle. Now that would be funny.

    Like


  250. I truly love women- I absolutely adore them.
    All game does is teach women how to love me back.

    And, all it takes is acting like a cocky asshole.
    So what’s wrong with that?

    Like


  251. @nova – yeah i’ve never taken a run at DA, because i’ve seen everyone else do it without result. not sure what’s going on there. an obviously bright and good-looking guy constantly calling himself “sub-human” is a sign of some kind of fucked-up mental state, or internet troll persona. which only he can address, if and when he’s ready to. accordingly, it’s not really up to any of us to offer suggestions, despite our intermittent goodwill (obs, others have offered great advice). so i don’t.

    Like


  252. boring, fuddy-duddy, herbish females?

    Who wants them too?

    but others among them realize they’re not going to end up with a brad pitt clone, just as most men realize they’re not going to end up with a 9

    Yes, but the presence of those Brad Pitt clones, 9 and 10 women, and in my personal case, (trashy) women with near pornstar appearance detracts from what the boring, fuddy-duddy partner offers, especially if there’s an easier method of obtaining orgasm (porn, prostitution, chasing alphas) that doesn’t require the work and routine destroying that a relationship requires.

    as long as that mate exhibits generally masculine qualities and LTR game

    If you have those qualities, why are you wasting them on relationships instead of on pump and dumps.

    Like


  253. obsidian – I don’t have a simple answer to your points, and I think that there is some variation to the answers women give. The below is based on me, and god knows if it’s accurate.

    I will say it had nothing to do with money. I do think I wanted a demonstration of an investment of time, which may be the money correlation. I liked him, and I know that I tend to get sex and intimacy entangled. There is also a lot more emotional vulnerability is sleeping with someone you like than with a random, and as such feeling safe (for lack of a better word) matters. That usually translates into knowing someone longer for me.

    I also think girls respond differently to a guy based on if she’s feeling like he’s fun for one night or that he could be good LTR.

    Individuals may also just vary; I did my level best to fly a slut flag in honor of my lovely liberal feminist upbringing, and I’ve always had to rely on innuendo and implication rather than actions. Meh, doesn’t mean I can’t be seduced into a one night stand, but it’s never been with someone I’d consider a ltr with.

    I also say that once he laid it on the line I was out. I don’t care what the reality is, my head is staying buried in the sand with regards to what I bring to the table. I have almost nothing to do with my looks, thanks mom & dad, but I feel like I have a lot to do with the rest of me. Make me feel like that is immaterial and I’m out. I got to live the dream as a pretty little doll once and that it was not conducive to my self-worth.

    Like


  254. on June 30, 2009 at 3:27 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea need both ltrs and pumps and dumps. It is like the 2 food groups.

    Like


  255. @al- i was with all of that except the following:

    “my head is staying buried in the sand with regards to what I bring to the table. I have almost nothing to do with my looks, thanks mom & dad, but I feel like I have a lot to do with the rest of me. Make me feel like that is immaterial and I’m out. I got to live the dream as a pretty little doll once and that it was not conducive to my self-worth.”

    the burying your head in the sand part makes no sense, but your conclusion doesn’t follow. how do you know the rest is immaterial? did he tell you so? did you assume? just because a guy wants to have sex with you doesn’t mean he views you solely as a pretty little doll. he probably liked the rest of you as well, or you wouldn’t have been in that kind of situation. in fact, withholding sex may have come off as the unnatural element if you both liked each other and were attracted to each other. in which case explaining your feelings above, as you did so readily for obs and the rest of us here, might have been better for both of you than “i’m out of here”.

    Like


  256. The conversation was bit a more blunt than all that. More of a ‘now or beat it, bc this is the true value.’ I wasn’t ok with that; different delivery might have gotten a different response.

    burying head in sand was meant in that if all men fundamentally feel that 99.9% of value is sex, then I’m going to chose to ignore that, bc it makes me feel about thiiis big. Accepting 90% is enough for now.

    On a re-read though I think I sound bitter. Hmmm. Either way, enough hijacking by me.

    Like


  257. on June 30, 2009 at 4:07 pm Gunslingergregi

    Sex is a big part but every day shit I mean my house ain’t gonna clean itself. Food doesn’t cook itself. My clothes don’t magically get clean. There are lots of things some guys need woman for. I can’t cuddle with myself.

    Like


  258. these often develop an alpha-cock entitlement syndrome

    I’d argue that these girls have become used to the great orgasms delivered by alpha males, so beta males and sub-humans are incapable of competing due to their inability to replicate the alpha sex experience. These women may love their beta husbands in the way that Athena enjoys my friendship (or tolerates my existence), but they’re just not happy with their sex life.

    I honestly think DA prefers to think the way he does so that he can avoid doing the work required to attract a compatible mate in his league.

    That’s generally because the work isn’t worth it when there are easier ways of securing orgasm. There is no incentive to disrupt my routine in order to go chase an orgasm. Why work to maintain a twenty year old car when WMATA is cheap and easy to use?

    But yes, nova, you’re catching on. Unless I can get a girl who meets my sexual needs without effort on my part or disruption to my routine, then it just isn’t worth it.

    you should just bite the bullet and spring for a professional dominatrix

    The secret dream of the beta isn’t the submissive girl, but of the dominant, in-charge woman who tells you how to have sex with her. None of that fumbling around or figuring out what she wants. Just do what she explicitly wants, and everybody gets their happy orgasm.

    Like


  259. @Obsidian:

    “As I’ve said earlier and elsewhere in the forum, Women know early and often if they’re sexually attracted to a Man; it doesn’t take three dates, or even one, for them to know this. Of course, just because a Woman is sexually attracted to a Man doesn’t mean she’ll follow through on said impulse, hence Game, the goal of the Man to seduce her to following through on a decision she’s already made.”

    It’s quite possible to be attracted to someone whose personality you hate in at least 30 different ways, and that attraction will transform itself into revulsion.

    “I’ve always been intrigued by how Women wil recoil at the notion of a Man giving them a “three date minimum” to decide if they want to put out or not. I say that because it seems that the revulsion isn’t based on actual fact, but more that they’re being called on their BS.”

    Setting that sort of ultimatum, tells me at least, that all he cares about is sex. And if that is his only goal, well then, good bye. LTRs only work if they are about the same thing; yes, sex does happen in LTRs, I understand that. But when a man sends a “three date minimum” he’s saying that all he cares about is sex. Get in, get out, then disappear. At least, that’s how I interpret it. That may not be what he is saying. But I don’t want that kind of person in my life. I don’t want someone who thinks that there is a mathematical formula to winning over my affections.

    As it is though, I think dating is…strange.

    Like


  260. @al- ah. in that case your heart shouldn’t have been as affected. your pride, maybe. you need not exhibit ostrich behavior about your appeal/value. sure looks are important, very important, but personality, character, compassion/nurturing, shared values, etc. are just as important for most men in LTRs than they are for most women. i bet you could name a half dozen posters on this PUA-oriented board, as i could, that regularly say the same thing. so this guy may not have been looking for an LTR, you were. move on – that’s life in the big city.

    gee, maybe you *should* let us fix you up …

    Like


  261. an obviously bright and good-looking guy constantly calling himself “sub-human” is a sign of some kind of fucked-up mental state, or internet troll persona

    David will never be really happy because he never finished college on time which destroyed his career plans, meeting more Wellesley Queen types and other affiliated whiter people, and prohibits him from properly taking care of his mother and brother. The only thing that will make David is a time machine to change the past. Even in his darker moments, he’d trade away all of his friends and experiences in the past just for a chance at the idealized world he sometimes longs for.

    Plus, David generally presumes that he’s ugly based on dirty looks given by women of all races and the fact that he doesn’t look like the pretty people, and the absurd premise that if girls really liked him, they’d come up to him and say so.

    Like


  262. on June 30, 2009 at 5:11 pm Tupac Chopra

    DA:

    The secret dream of the beta isn’t the submissive girl, but of the dominant, in-charge woman who tells you how to have sex with her. None of that fumbling around or figuring out what she wants. Just do what she explicitly wants, and everybody gets their happy orgasm.

    You just perfectly described the mentality of a feminine woman with regards to her desire for a man’s masculine leadership.

    Note: I said woman.

    Congratulations, faggot.

    Like


  263. on June 30, 2009 at 5:14 pm Tupac Chopra

    Mandy:

    But when a man sends a “three date minimum” he’s saying that all he cares about is sex.

    No, it means he’s protecting himself from being played by the woman as a provider-chump.

    A sexual relationship without romantic feelings can be tumultuous indeed, but such bonds are usually *quite* strong.

    A committed relationship with little sexual fire is usually doomed at the outset.

    Like


  264. You just perfectly described the mentality of a feminine woman with regards to her desire for a man’s masculine leadership.

    The difference is that she explicitly tells me what she wants versus me trying to figure out her demands and the resulting blowback from the potential screw up.

    Like


  265. @Tupac:

    And maybe the woman not giving into it right away is her way of protecting herself of being played as a pump and dump.

    All this arises out of people not trusting one another. And you can’t have love without trust.

    “A committed relationship with little sexual fire is usually doomed at the outset.”
    I agree with this.

    I’m not exactly advocating to not have sex, it’s just that three dates is soon. Again, I don’t think that men should HAVE to spend money on women. Those women who expect certain dollar minimums for dates are…gold diggers. I could describe them in some other ways but I’d like to keep this post void of profanity.

    I think spending time with one another is important. Part of building trust, of building seduction. And then you can have hot sex later. idk. :/

    Like


  266. on June 30, 2009 at 5:22 pm Tupac Chopra

    The difference is that she explicitly tells me what she wants versus me trying to figure out her demands and the resulting blowback from the potential screw up.

    Part of betatude is caring too much about what the woman wants to the detriment of knowing what YOU want.

    Women can sniff out second-guessing, supplicative behavior at 12 parsecs.

    Like


  267. @Tupac:

    Everyone except for the person behaving that way can.

    They’re in denial.

    Like


  268. on June 30, 2009 at 5:25 pm Tupac Chopra

    Mandy:

    And maybe the woman not giving into it right away is her way of protecting herself of being played as a pump and dump.

    Indeed it is.

    There is always that subtle negotiating strategy going on underneath the surface.

    Many men here will tell you there are women who have no compunctions about sleeping with someone they just met. Some require an extra day.

    But the point is, there has to be a reasonable standard, lest the man become the fool.

    I think 3 “dates” is more than sufficient for the woman to suss out if the guy is “safe.” or potential LTR material.

    You on the other hand are probably hoping to gather every scrap of evidence in order to have a 100% perfectly informed decision before you spread your legs.

    Not very realistic. That’s not how the world works.

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  269. @Tupac:

    “You on the other hand are probably hoping to gather every scrap of evidence in order to have a 100% perfectly informed decision before you spread your legs.

    Not very realistic. That’s not how the world works.”
    Yeah, I normally take a strand of hair so I can run a DNA test on them; gotta make sure they have the best genes possible.

    I kid.

    I’ve heard how guys talk about girls. Maybe it’s different when people are older and there’s a certain level of maturity about sex, like it’s something people do and there’s no need to scream about it to the world. But until then.

    Like


  270. Part of betatude is caring too much about what the woman wants to the detriment of knowing what YOU want.

    What I want from her is a quick orgasm that doesn’t require much work on my part. Since I have no clue as to what she would want, it’s much easier to ask her what she wants so I can both get our orgasm and walk away happy. But just doing what I want with no regard for her just doesn’t work.

    Women can sniff out second-guessing, supplicative behavior at 12 parsecs.

    Then I guess I have no choice but to maintain the use of my right hand and a mixture of Johnson & Johnson baby oil and lotion.

    Like


  271. Max A

    Racer X

    Getting divorced in your 40’s is really a great deal for a guy, the fact is as long as he’s in shape*

    1) he can get a bachelor pad in the city
    2) bring back a new one each night for a sleep over
    3) avoid the massive financial liability of supporting an old woman for your whole life . (as distinct from looking after your kids to age 18)

    Yeah but a lot better option is not to get married in the first place.

    If you want kids, there’s essentially no way around child support which for two is going to run you 25-33% of your pre tax income, increase by 50% for the after tax estimate, and it can’t be capped.

    However if you don’t get married or have a prenup the financially mimics living together without being married, then you can avoid all alimony even if she doesn’t work, and giving her any of your accumulated wealth incl retirement accts. She can keep her own of course.

    Like


  272. maurice–

    Oh, I know about south beach. Scene, models, drugs, etc. architecture too- it’s one of the prettiest resort towns around, something that often gets overlooked.

    Yeah I had this long running client situation that took me to Miami regularly for about four years in the middle of the 90s. I was soon arranging to stay in South Beach and frequently extended my stay over the weekend, etc. This was during and just after getting divorced (no kids) so I did have fun. Took gf’s down there a few times. Mostly not. Fun times.

    Like


  273. It’s changed a lot since the 90’s. More construction, more buildings, more condos and apartments on the beach.

    Like


  274. If high-revving women are sexually frustrated, let them have some sort of French arrangement where they have two men, the postfeminist model dad building shelves, cooking bouillabaise, and ignoring them in the home, and the occasional fun-loving boyfriend the kids never see.

    Yes.

    As I said elsewhere, she’s openly advocating for cuckoldry, without using that word.

    Further she doesn’t even offer the socially accepted quid pro quo. That is that in different marriages sexually frustrated men (who by all survey information are greater in number) sees an occassional fun loving girlfriend with his wife’s tacit or explicit approval.

    Such is the hold of feminism on the modern American media that French style opened marriages or tolerated affairs, which have always happened a lot more on the male than the female side but some on both, can only be bandied about and get any sympathetic hearing when it’s advanced by a feminist in a one sided female way.

    Like


  275. on June 30, 2009 at 7:36 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    David McTroll

    The secret dream of the beta isn’t the submissive girl, but of the dominant, in-charge woman who tells you how to have sex with her. None of that fumbling around or figuring out what she wants. Just do what she explicitly wants, and everybody gets their happy orgasm.

    First, you’re implying that “figuring out what she wants” is difficult, which is laughable.

    The one place where essentially all women are the same is the bedroom. The only major differences exist in their acknowledgment of, resistance against, and/or acceptance of this common nature.

    Second, if she gets a happy orgasm from this arrangement, that won’t be the case for long. Soon, if she gets a happy orgasm in your presence at all, it’ll happen as you watch her dominant lover plow her. She may even make you be his fluffer.

    David, before you reply in your usual ignorant limpdick style, a THOUGHT EXPERIMENT:

    Think about (a) the number of women who want casual sex, no strings attached, with a dominant man, in which they are submissive and essentially powerless.

    Then, think about (b) the number of women who want casual sex, no strings attached, with a submissive man, in which they hold the sexual power.

    Answers:
    (a) is a big number.
    (b) is zero. Women will only do this when they receive some sort of compensation, usually financial or material. You’re probably enough of a poor sap that you’d sexualize that as part of the submission, too. Wouldn’t you.

    Like


  276. on June 30, 2009 at 7:48 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Further she doesn’t even offer the socially accepted quid pro quo. That is that in different marriages sexually frustrated men (who by all survey information are greater in number) sees an occassional fun loving girlfriend with his wife’s tacit or explicit approval.

    I took that same deliberate** omission as implying that “high-revving” (her words) men shouldn’t even get married. In other words, only provider cuckold chumps should sign up for marriage in the Loh country, so that fly types like myself can remain a “public good”.

    **It’s possible that the author is so self-absorbed that the quid pro quo didn’t even occur to her, but I think it was more likely a deliberate omission.

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  277. DA: Even if you discount sub-human males like myself, who would *really* want to date boring, fuddy-duddy, herbish beta males?

    I’m sure you didn’t mean that.

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  278. To attain the zen of game, the beta first has to discard his illusions concerning womanhood.

    “The Way in the Game is found in the approach. When it comes to either/or, ther is only the quick choice of approaching. It is not particularly difficult. Be determined and advance. To say that getting shot down without reaching a close is to die a dog’s death is the frivolous way of sophisticates. When pressed with the choice of standing off or approaching, it is not necessary to gain one’s aim. … To approach without gaining one’s aim is a dog’s death and fanaticism. But there is no shame in this.” — Hagakure.

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  279. Re: Epoxy

    When I was with my mistress, it was much easier to simply do whatever she wanted than to attempt to determine what she wanted or needed. I just did as I was instructed, and she got her orgasm. It was far better than screwing it up and making a fool of myself.

    Since I can’t be that dominant man that women want, then I guess that serves as an excellent reason to opt-out of the market.

    I’m sure you didn’t mean that.

    I seriously mean it. I see no real compelling reason to date a beta male.

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  280. on July 1, 2009 at 6:54 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    When I was with my mistress, it was much easier to simply do whatever she wanted than to attempt to determine what she wanted or needed. I just did as I was instructed

    Conflating “what she says she wants” with “what she wants” is Cardinal Sin No. 1 in seduction, and in dealing with women in general.

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  281. Conflating “what she says she wants” with “what she wants” is Cardinal Sin No. 1 in seduction, and in dealing with women in general.

    If she wanted something remotely aggressive, the only way she’s getting that is if she tells me explicitly that’s what she wants. Otherwise, instead of some half-assed beta version of dominant, she’ll just get default operating mode which would probably scare her off.

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  282. Just another night at Tattoo…lol..

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  283. Mad1- is that you, sweet cockfriend? does your name begin with Z ?

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  284. Heh, the cockbacker… Always love the much appreciated – “Hey you know my friend is not from around here… you should ask her to dance”

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  285. Roissy,

    Excellent article on how to play it cool and take the girl home anyway. There is something sage about simply raising your glass and giving a wink while knuckle draggers are grinding on your girl like they just got a new hair cut.

    I’ve been working on a series of “anti-cockblocking” articles. The methods are designed specifically for situations like yours. I only advocate their use in ‘defensive’ situations though. I never try to ruin another guys night for no reason. It’s like martial arts… of cock blocking.

    Love the blog, and my gosh, what an active community you have.

    Josh

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  286. on July 8, 2009 at 4:37 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea but some think that if there were 6 posts it would be great. Like if you took the opinions of 6 people a day like every other blog has. Because you know the people who talk about other peoples posts have the important posts somehow. It is always the people who complain who have the most important shit going on. Just like in america where minorities complain the loudest so they get all the breaks. White males complain the least so they get to be 80 percent of the firings.

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  287. […] only time a girl will *help* her friend with a guy (i.e., she’ll be a cockbacker) is when none of the above conditions are operational; she isn’t getting signaled to […]

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