Two Conversations: Update

The answer to yesterday’s post:

The “do me in the ass” conversation was first. If she had said she was married first, I may or may not have proceeded with the dirty bang, but I would have thought a little less lowly of her. A married woman disenchanted with her husband, who lets you know up front she is about to cheat on him with you, is lying to just one man, instead of two. She would have at least given me the opportunity to decide for myself whether to facilitate her whoring.

Commenter Welmer captured the spirit of the moment perfectly:

She told him she was married second. Some women like surprising men with that crap. It’s kind of a power trip.

I had the distinct impression at the time as she was telling me what a bad person I would think she is once she revealed the truth about herself that she was indubitably relishing the high drama. I did not get the feeling she truly felt very bad about her cheating, or that she actually cared if I thought she was a bad person. Instead, she was sticking it to her beta husband, as well as to me (though of course if fucking a girl in the ass is akin to being used, then use me bitch). She was enjoying a power trip.

She was Russian.





Comments


  1. We’re all going straight to hell.

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  2. I had the distinct impression at the time as she was telling me what a bad person I would think she is once she revealed the truth about herself that she was indubitably relishing the high drama. I did not get the feeling she truly felt very bad about her cheating

    Of course she was “relishing the high drama.” If she wasn’t, she wouldn’t have prefaced her confession wth the “you’ll think I’m a bad person” line. Fake guilt can be spotted a mile off.

    Peter

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  3. It’s like when a small child leads into a plea for attention (usually getting a shitload of free stuff) with, “Hey Dad…. well, wait, no nevermind… you’re probably just going to say no anyway… OK, I’ll ask if you promise you’re not going to say no like always…”

    As long as we remember that a woman’s brain remains infantile into adulthood (whatever may be happening to her youthful appearance), we won’t be so shocked by the mischief they love to get into.

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  4. Russian as in Russian ethnicity, or actually from Russia? (seeing as you mentioned her ethnic extraction at all, I’m guessing that it’s the latter, but clarification would help).

    I ask because the former Soviet bloc is one of the main trawling areas for foreign wives, and I’ve long suspected that women of the bloc aren’t much better than the domestic shit we encounter right here at home.

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  5. Russian as in Russian ethnicity, or actually from Russia?

    from Russia. One of the central asian former satellites of soviet russia.

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  6. I had voted that she asked you to fuck her in the ass first. My reasons where not clear beyond that I felt their was a connection from a some sort of punishment (taking it in the ass) followed by why she needed cleansing pain absolution for cheating.

    I was unsure if it came from a perverted sense of justice or if it was part of stupid drama game she was playing.

    Definitely an interesting case.

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  7. on December 19, 2008 at 11:21 am Large Hadron Collider

    Da

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  8. “One of the central asian former satellites of soviet russia.”

    Are you speak of the most glorious nation of Kazakhstan?

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  9. Ho-Missy,
    Yesterday I was on the Metro and some guy roughly elbowed his way off, pushing me into the lap of an elderly gentleman to the amusement of his wife. I couldn’t help but wonder if it was you.

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  10. did you bust yer nut in her ass?

    god i hope so…

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  11. Good question, KAB. Always on point.

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  12. I’m glad I called it with the ass fuck. I think her telling you she was married after all of it, is so you both can have a clean break after it was done. If you continue with more later on you have a no string attached card to play.

    Regardless you win, even if she thinks she has the upper hand.

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  13. i’d love to know if she’s married to a russian guy (i’m guessing no) and how she met her hubby.

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  14. Eastern European women (Russian, Polish, and Ukranian) have a bad rep for cheating. Whether that is nature or nurture I’m not sure. I don’t think the Westernized ones have quite the same rep. I live in a Canadian province with a lot of Ukranian settlers and women here of Ukranian descent are not known for any particularly bad behaviour. On the other hand, recent immigrants in the Toronto area are notorious for their cheating and running around.

    From my limited experience, East European women, at least those fresh off the plane, are also very feminine and give free reign to their emotions. Charming, if a little dangerous.

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  15. I think this illustrates why one shouldn’t uncritically laud foreign women as some kind of paragon of womanhood. Yes, there are lots of things wrong with North American women, but women from other cultures have their own bad habits too, sometimes really nasty ones.

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  16. Eastern European women (Russian, Polish, and Ukranian) have a bad rep for cheating.

    I can’t speak that well for Russian or Ukrainian women but I’ve never heard of this in Poland. In fact, it’s the husbands in Poland who have a rep for cheating, and depending on the generation or the social class the wives don’t mind too much as long as he’s discreet about it.

    There is also a selection bias at play when the only EE women you know are over here in North America, since you’re gonna be dealing with women who are more likely to be adventurous (au-pair) rich/spoiled (students) or mercenary (brides)

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  17. I’ve never heard of this in Poland.

    Polish immigrants in the Toronto area have a bad rep. More than that I cannot say.

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  18. Ho-Missy,

    nope. you still suck at this.

    Yesterday I was on the Metro and some guy roughly elbowed his way off, pushing me into the lap of an elderly gentleman to the amusement of his wife.

    are you a fatty? maybe you were blocking his exit.

    I couldn’t help but wonder if it was you.

    you’re always wondering about me. stalker.

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  19. Roissy, you see all this behavior through the prism of gender. Another prism is that of the hobbyist-psychiatrist. Consider Histrionic Personality Disorder. A lay version of the symptoms:

    * seeking to be the center of attention
    * dressing flamboyantly or wear outrageous hairstyles
    * acting or dressing sexually to get attention
    * exaggerating every action and reaction
    * getting bored quickly and craving excitement and new situations
    * having rapid shifts of emotion that may seem phony
    * being overly trusting and easily swayed by others
    * manipulating others to try to get your needs met
    * believing friendships and relationships are more intimate than they are

    Consider if this constellation reminds you of anyone:
    DSM-IV Criteria:

    A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:[1]

    1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
    2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
    3. believes that he or she is “special” and unique
    4. requires excessive admiration
    5. has a sense of entitlement
    6. is interpersonally exploitative
    7. lacks empathy
    8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
    9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

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  20. Whoa…I am going to forward this post to three of my crawlbacks.

    Thank you, Roissy. 🙂

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  21. PA is right on. Locally EE men have a reputation for cheating, women don’t, but there’s the obvious merciless gold-digging subset among them. It’s not too surprising for cutthroat women who marry total betas for their money to end up cheating and it’s not too surprising if you end up familiar with mainly that set in NA.

    To some extent it seems to be so even there. Here’s some fun data from the US

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  22. * seeking to be the center of attention
    * dressing flamboyantly or wear outrageous hairstyles
    * acting or dressing sexually to get attention
    * exaggerating every action and reaction
    * getting bored quickly and craving excitement and new situations
    * having rapid shifts of emotion that may seem phony
    * being overly trusting and easily swayed by others
    * manipulating others to try to get your needs met
    * believing friendships and relationships are more intimate than they are

    Hey, it’s your average woman. 😉

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  23. Histrionic personality disorder is much more common among gals than guys. Men tend to veer in the direction of sociopathic narcissism (power/ego baloney), where women tend to veer in the direction of neediness and self-dramatization. it’s one reason there are so many talented actresses — being an actress is (from one p-o-v anyway) just an extreme version of being a (normal, self-centered, sensitive, attention-demanding) woman.

    Google “Sam Vaknin” — he’s great on narcissism, and on the varieties thereof.

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  24. Thursday: “Eastern European women (Russian, Polish, and Ukranian) have a bad rep for cheating.”

    Pupu wonders whether it is due to a selection bias. Many eastern European women in the U.S. came here through marriage, which suggests they are willing to barter sex for purposes other than love or romance. In other words, they view their sexuality as a tradable commodity and a source of power. Marriage created this way is a sham one and more prone to cheating. Once the woman has her U.S. citizenship, the trade is concluded from her perspective. Feeling dissatisfied with her husband, she is more likely seeking more productive use of her sexuality.

    Being comparatively poorer, estern Europe has given their women more incentive to leave, but less financial means to support themselves overseas. China is in a similar situation, but somehow, more young Chinese immigrants came here through graduate schools. Perhaps, the demand for Chinese mail-brides is too limited for talented Chinese girls to put all their eggs in that one basket.

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  25. Engaging in disgusting and homo-imitative sex just to say you’ve scored? Doesn’t really count. In a league with fatty-porking, at best.

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  26. Thanks for sharing that little story. You’ve helped me regain my faith in humanity.

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  27. Thursday said, “Eastern European women (Russian, Polish, and Ukranian) have a bad rep for cheating. ”

    I agree with PA. I’ve never heard this about Polish women, as far as I know, they tend to be quite Catholic and probably the most moral of all Slavic girls, with maybe Slovakia (not the Czechs by any means) in second place and Slovenia in 3rd.

    This is totally true however, for Russian and Ukrainian girls. I’m just surprised that since this girl was Russian, she didn’t say she was married first and then proceed to Roissy’s reaming.

    I know several Russian guys in America married to Polish girls and the reasons they give are (1) cultural similarity and (2) having a girl they could actually trust not to cheat when they weren’t around.

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  28. The best story I ever heard was of the woman who was drunk-date-raped by the guy she was “in love with” and with whom she planning to cheat on her boyfriend.

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  29. Thursday said, “Eastern European women (Russian, Polish, and Ukranian) have a bad rep for cheating. ”

    I agree with PA. I’ve never heard this about Polish women, as far as I know, they tend to be quite Catholic and probably the most moral of all Slavic girls, with maybe Slovakia (not the Czechs by any means) in second place and Slovenia in 3rd.

    This is totally true, however, for Russian and Ukrainian girls. I’m just surprised that since this girl was Russian, she didn’t actually say she was married first and then proceed to Roissy’s reaming, because all of my acquaintances/friend that were nailing married Russian girls were told in advance… usually not because the girl cared, but either because they thought the guy should know, in case the husband was a big goon/criminal, etc that might wipe the guy out if the cheating was discovered or because they thought it was a power trip.

    I know several Russian guys in America married to Polish girls and the reasons they give are (1) cultural similarity and (2) having a girl they could actually trust not to cheat when they weren’t around.

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  30. they tend to be quite Catholic and probably the most moral of all Slavic girls, with maybe Slovakia

    You bring up a great point. Religious traditions are a huge differentiator among various Slavic groups. The Catholic Poles, Slovaks, western Ukrainians are similar in having rather strong moral beliefs with regards to sex and patriotic feelings, among others.

    This is in contract to Czechs, whose religious traditions are less than skin-deep. I’ve seen studies that showed Polish and Czech students being at polar opposites in terms of values such as religiosity or nationalism. While Poles and Czechs get along well, Czechs see their Polish friends as religious fanatics and Poles see Czechs as bloodless atheists.

    Even within Poland, which is a monolithic nation, you have subcultures like Silesians, Kashubians, Highlanders, “Kresy” folk (descendants of people resettled / ethnically cleansed form present day Ukraine and Lithuania)

    Russians and eastern Ukrainians are from the Orthodox tradition. From what I remember reading in that study, and this fits with my casual observation as well, are more casual with regards to sexual mores but strong with regards to nationalistic feeling.

    A similar thing can be seen among the (non-Slavic) Balts, in contrasting the Protestant, Scandinavian-influenced Latvians and the Catholic, Polish-influenced Lithuanians. It kinda parallels the Czech/Polish thing.

    There is even a Soviet-era joke: A Latvian shouts at an anti-Soviet rally sometime around 1989: “Freedom or death! to the last Lithuanian!

    Eastern Europe is a pretty interesting place.

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  31. PA said, “You bring up a great point. Religious traditions are a huge differentiator among various Slavic groups. The Catholic Poles, Slovaks, western Ukrainians are similar in having rather strong moral beliefs with regards to sex and patriotic feelings, among others.”

    Reading your post, I realized I should have rephrased my statement. I shouldn’t have lumped the 2 types of Ukrainians together by using the imprecise word “Ukrainians”. In my post, I was referring to native Russian speaking Ukrainians from Kiev, Donbass region, Lugansk, Odessa, Crimea, etc. Native Ukrainian speakers from Western Ukraine are a totally different breed and far more like Polish people in regards to religion and morality.

    Guys in Kiev looking for a quick pickup/lay know that one of the first questions you should ask a girl is, “Where are you from?” If the girl responds that she’s somewhere from Western Ukraine, all the guys know instinctively to move on and try to find another girl.

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  32. Great comment PA, but can you explain this part:

    A similar thing can be seen among the (non-Slavic) Balts, in contrasting the Protestant, Scandinavian-influenced Latvians and the Catholic, Polish-influenced Lithuanians. It kinda parallels the Czech/Polish thing.

    There is even a Soviet-era joke: A Latvian shouts at an anti-Soviet rally sometime around 1989: “Freedom or death! to the last Lithuanian! ”

    It’s the only part I didn’t quite get.

    Eastern Europe is a pretty interesting place.

    The more I learn about it, the more I’m inclined to agree.

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  33. Thanks!

    You mean the joke? It’s the Lithuanians being seen as more Romantic and traditionalist, vs Latvians who are reputed as more “protestant” about their worldviews.

    So a Latvian anti-Soviet protester isn’t so much sticking his own neck out as he’s “volunteering” the Lithuanians to die for his freedom.

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  34. Ahhh, gotcha PA, rereading now the joke is actually pretty obvious! Duh on my part.

    Do you guys have any more insights on the idiosyncracies of Latvians versus other Eastern European groups?

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  35. I don’t know too much else about Lativans. I’ve been to Lithuania and even speak a smidgeon of the language (“hello” “one pack of Camels please” “thank you” etc.) but not Latvia. I believe that their languages are virtually identical to each other.

    Also, Latvian rock music is pretty cool, in my opinion the best in post ’89 Eastern Europe, with the possible exception of stuff out of former Yugoslavia, if that’s your thing.

    There is a Latvian band Tumsa (pron. TOOM-she) that’s awesome.

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  36. ATC:
    Engaging in disgusting and homo-imitative sex just to say you’ve scored?

    are blowjobs from girls homo-imitative? after all, gays have mouths, too.

    Doesn’t really count. In a league with fatty-porking, at best.

    no. fatties are disgusting. fucking the fine ass of a slender hot babe is an imcomparable pleasure.

    sara:
    Thanks for sharing that little story. You’ve helped me regain my faith in humanity.

    this must be the thousandth time you’ve lost and regained your faith in humanity. aren’t you a little old to be a flake?

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  37. fucking the fine ass of a slender hot babe is an imcomparable pleasure.

    I’m not knocking your thing, seriously. But what’s the pleasure? is it mainly the idea of it, or does the Johnson feel good in that hole?

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  38. Like PA, I don’t much else about Latvians either. I’ve only met a handful of ethnic Latvians, although I’ve met tons of ethnic Russians that used to live in Latvia. There is still some huge ongoing controversy there about closing Russian language schools in favor of entirely Latvian speaking schools. Latvia has some huge % of ethnic Russians, while Estonia and Lithuania do not.

    From what I know Latvia and Lithuanian languages are very similar, except one is (I think Lithuanian?) a more ancient form of the other, although I think Latvians and Lithuanians argue over who were the “Original Baltic People” all the time.

    The Latvians I’ve met seem pretty normal as in not having attitudes too radically different from your standard Western European — but again, I don’t have enough data to even make a judgment from even casual, personal observation.

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  39. on December 19, 2008 at 3:56 pm Carlos From Anaheim

    The revelation that she is Russian was a a bit of a shock. I wholly expected it to be an American woman. Wait- I just, right now, remembered an earlier post about the difference between an American woman and a European and how the latter will gleefully ask for anal. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

    Do you know if she was married to an American man? My money is on yes.

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  40. A similar thing can be seen among the (non-Slavic) Balts, in contrasting the Protestant, Scandinavian-influenced Latvians and the Catholic, Polish-influenced Lithuanians. It kinda parallels the Czech/Polish thing.

    Estonians are the Scandinavian-influenced Evangelic-Lutheran Protestants. Roughly a half of ethnic Latvians are Lutherans. The rest are Catholics. The Orthodox Christians in the Baltic countries tend to be ethnic Russians. None of the three Baltic countries are very deeply religious these days.

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  41. PA:
    I’m not knocking your thing, seriously. But what’s the pleasure? is it mainly the idea of it, or does the Johnson feel good in that hole?

    where one hole is good, two is better.

    or: no sweeter sound than the squeals of a woman pierced in a place the good lord didn’t explicitly design for piercing.

    or: why do i bother kissing a woman on the lips when i could just plunge straight away into her pussy? same reasoning.

    or: yeah, it feels damn fucking fine! and looks good from the overhead camera angle.

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  42. Roissy said: “where one hole is good, two is better.”

    I’m surprised; I would have guessed that the idea was to reinforce your alphatude by dominating her in this way.

    YMMV but anal is 3rd or 4th choice for me. Sticking my dick in a shit hole, even wrapped, is not an attractive option.

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  43. roissy,

    this must be the thousandth time you’ve lost and regained your faith in humanity. aren’t you a little old to be a flake?

    Never.

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  44. Roissy, how is her being Russian relevant? Are you saying Russian girls want a power trip more than an average girl?

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  45. About Russian women:

    If you follow the linux computer world, Dr. Reiser, of the linux reiser file system fame (which I am using right now) was recently found guilty of murdering his wife. She was Russian. He met her in Russia while working over there. Brought her here (an upgrade over Russia I suspect) and married her. I guess that deal wasn’t enough for her. When she cheated on him, he killed her. Some would call that murder.

    Imagine: In the old days she would have been shamed, shunned, and divorced without a penny, and shipped back to Russia. I wonder what would have happened if he just asked for a divorce? He owned a computer business. I suspect she and the boyfriend would have wound up owning most of it.

    But, I digress.

    That make two Russians at least fooling around on their husbands in my limited knowledge of this world.

    What’s the saying? Once is luck. Twice coincidence. Three times is skill.

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  46. Can you possibly be surprised that this is the sort of woman you would attract, given your bleak, repugnant worldview?

    If a woman came along who was generous, sweet, and honest, what would you of all people have to offer her, other than being the object of her pity?

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  47. Groggie, I contend that he wouldn’t want such a woman if she wasn’t “hot”. So it’s kind of a moot point.

    The man enjoys screwing around. Let him. So long as he’s honest, it’s not harming anyone other than him, if that.

    The problem is here is that she wasn’t honest. Maybe he shouldn’t be surprised, but then maybe people shouldn’t be surprised if they get mugged in NYC. Still doesn’t make it right. They don’t deserve to get mugged just for walking around, and he doesn’t deserve to possibly run afoul of someone’s jealous husband just for wanting to get laid.

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