A Test Of Your Game: The Judging

It’s time to revisit the last “Test of Your Game” and see how the commenters responded to the challenge. How would you handle an outdoor pickup attempt under the gaze of a beautiful setting sun over the ocean, briefly interrupted by a potential cockblock?

Anonymous wrote:

FIRST!!!!! :))))

I like the assumed sale. But the excitability sounds too eager.

Grade: E for effort

The G Manifesto wrote:

“The Pacific sun glared off the sand”

Being that you are on The Wessyde, spark up a Chronic jay and say:

“Stick around for a while, you don’t want to miss the sunset. It is going to be a “green flash”.

To which she will respond:

“What is a “green flash?”

Maneuver as usual from there. Final destination: your bedroom.

An excellent segue, if she isn’t a local. Actually, this is a decent topic even if she knows what you’re talking about. If she says “I’ve seen it already”, you could say “Yeah, but not with my color commentary.”

Grade: B+

DiamondEyes wrote:

“Does David know you try to pick up strange men at the beach?”

whatever she says, cut her off with –

“Your friend is kind of cute.”

There is no need to mention David at all. That’s taking the focus off you and putting it on some other dude. We don’t know if David is a BF, an ex, a herbly friend, a brother, a roommate or none of the above. Plus, this abrupt conversational change doesn’t flow well from her last words to you as she was packing to go. As for the driving arrangements hinted at by the girl friend, well, it could be a girls’ night out, so no boyfriend presence required. Otherwise, I like the flirty nature and the disqualification of this segue, and a girl who was feeling you might pick up and run with this.

Grade: Gentleman’s C

Miley Cyrax wrote:

Hesitate like a deer in the headlights, until the sight of her walking away spurs you into action. Yell “wait!,” while getting up to chase after her, before tripping over your beach chair and falling on your face.

She turns around.

Trying to DHV as you pick yourself up (flexing the triceps as you push yourself off the ground), you sheepishly ask “has anyone told you that you have a C-shaped smile?”

Neil Strauss wept.

Grade: A+ for slapstick humor

E wrote:

“How long have you and her been dating?”, completely straight faced.

Assuming she’s not actually dating that girl, she’ll probably start qualifying. If she is dating that girl, you can ask if they’ve ever shared a man.

Man, this is an ingenious neg/disqualification. But for it to work you have to say it with sincere naïveté. Any smirking will convince her you’re a douchebag. This is a line that could function in any situation where a cockblock is present.

Grade: B for balls

Marc wrote:

Flirt with the pale girl, says I. Make magazine girl, who probably already thinks she’s the shit, wonder if you might actually like her friend better. Plus y’know, if you’re in with her group, it’s less awkward to try to get her to peel away.

It’s always advisable to flirt with other girls (an alpha male is always “on”), but if you aren’t ambiguous about your intentions, or you overdo it, she might really think you want her less attractive friend and try to set you two up. But I get that this is a classic disqualification maneuver used on hot babes to make them doubt your attraction for them, and thus to slightly lower their status relative to yours. I’m just not sure that the “I like your friend” red herring tactic won’t backfire as often as it works as intended.

Grade: C-

Anonymous wrote:

A classic close I learned from this blog:

Double middle finger in the face of all. Stunner. Stunner. Stunner.

Walk away to the sound of breaking glass.

Bonus: and whistling the “Battle Hymm of the Republic.”

Double Bonus: steal her wallet. spend her money at the strip club.

Are some of you guys looking to pick up chicks or audition for the new Game movie?

Grade: Hell yeah!

Marx wrote:

As the perceptive charmer different from the rest of the pack, I can smell the moisture tingling her ‘gina. She *wants* to be late; she *wants* to dismiss David; and she *wants* to showcase her sass (and ass).

Response: eradicate that sense of urgency, prolong her stay at the beach, keep teasing, get her to jump in the water, and take the rest from there.

Me: “So you came to the beach to read a magazine? Come on… you’re more fun than that.”

Magazine girl: “No, I was tanning too. But I gotta go now.”

Me: “Yeah, I noticed the tan lines. Seriously, what’s the urgency for? Beautiful day, beautiful sand, beautiful sharks.”

M-G: “I gotta get ready for that dinner.”

Me: “Do you also have trouble telling time? You have hours before dinner. Come on. Do you know how to swim?”

M-G: “Yes.”

Me: “I don’t believe you. Show me.”

M-G: “…..”

**More witty banter to expunge that urge to leave**

Me: “I’m jumping in. Tag along.”

**I grab her gently by the hand and pull her into the water**

Commenter Ben Runkle had a good reply to this commenter’s suggestion, so I’ll just post that:

“I like this because it seems like you’re going for the same day lay, by keeping her around and moving to another spot (the water). That said, I feel like this would work better at night, after she’s already out, maybe at a bar on the beach. The thing that sucks about day game is it’s a lot harder to isolate (without coming off as creepy or pushy) due to the fact that the girl may just have a legitimate excuse for leaving. other than timing, this is solid.”

Yup, day game is a different beast than night game.

Grade: B

(Another) Anonymous wrote:

“Well, I’ve gotta go. It was nice talking about invisible sharks with you.”

This is a shit test. Agree & amplify, and get her contact info with a single retort, with a simple, efficient phrase:

“Yeah, we should do it again sometime, over drinks.”

Clean and clear and relevant to her departing salvo. Remember, MagGirl is getting up to leave. There just isn’t time or context for continuing along a conversational path that requires a lot of flirty banter. A lot of commenters wanted to press on with the shark theme, but that would sound forced. One, you’re trying to pump life into an overworked subject matter, and two, you’re forcing her to banter when she’s given the unspoken signal that a change in topic is appropriate.

Grade: B (Not the best game, but doesn’t pussyfoot around, either.)

John Ryder wrote:

“Well hold it now, I’ve got all kinds of dangerous animals to show you… not all of them invisible…”

Sexual innuendo always comes across better on paper or in the movies than it does in real life.

Grade: D for dadgam horndog!

Maya wrote:

my piece of advice.

Ignore her shit test, don’t say anything, just look at her and make a smirk. When, in the next second, she’s about to go, I’d say “Do take the cold shower at your friend’s place” (or something like that, I can’t really make lines in English, but the important fact is that she’s just met a super hot alpha guy and she needs to cool down)
Her: “Why?”
You: “You’ll cool down.”
Her: “I don’t need to … I’m not upset at all”
You: “Try it. You’ll feel the difference”
Her: “I think you’re the one who should take a cold shower, you’re seeing the sharks where there are none … this is worrisome”
Now you can change the subject of the conversation abruptly again.

It’s always interesting to hear a girl’s perspective on pickup, if only to learn what not to do. Occasionally, though, a girl’s advice isn’t horrible. This example is a little overwrought, but the catch-her-off-guard line of “Yeah, you’d probably want to take that cold shower” is pretty good if you wanted to go direct and assume that she’s into you. A risky gambit, to be sure.

Grade: Lady’s B- (so conscientious, so workmanlike, but where’s the genius?)

Killer Instinct wrote:

This is an interesting case, and the PUA is presented essentially with two sets of options: disqualification or qualification. The first decision that needs to be made is which direction to go in. Given the fact that the girl is quite hot (8-9?) and that up to that point she is relatively uninterested, disqualification tactics are the best bet. Add the fact that she is ready to leave, disqualification presents a kind of higher-risk, higher-reward method: if it works, instant attraction can be triggered. So, how to go about disqualifying? Neg can work, but needs to be very calibrated—not too strong as to piss her off, and not to soft as to prevent attraction. My tactic would be something like this:
“hey, before you go, any chance you can introduce me to your cute friend?”

This is a good middle ground that is very likely to get a response, put her in a qualifying frame, and lay the foundational seeds of attraction.

Traditional game theory does support Killer Instinct’s advice to pursue a disqualification strategy. The success of this technique hinges on, as KI mentioned, the hotness of the target and her interest level. She was hot, but how interested was she? I got the sense there was incipient attraction because she didn’t try to escape our conversation before her pale friend showed up. There was momentum. Would a qualifying number close work better? Maybe it comes down to personal preference; a lower-risk but low-backfire rate method could appeal more to guys who style themselves aloof seducers.

Grade: B+

YaReally wrote:

Jesus, it’s like Game circa 2004 in here.

1. Why did she come sit down in the first place if she were only going to stay 5-10 minutes?

Because she wants his cock. She sits by him but won’t open him because she’s a hot alpha chick and she’s giving him a chance to have the balls to open her.

2. The friend leaves, and then slightly later, magazinegirl goes to leave. If she were going to leave her stuff at her friend’s apt, wouldn’t she have left with the friend?

Because she wants his cock. She stayed behind so he could at the least grab her number.

3. Who would this David be that Maggirl would 1) see him before going to her friend’s house but 2) not leave her stuff there and 3) not invite him along to dinner?

Who the fuck cares who David is? Maggirl clearly doesn’t. He’s the guy that’s totally irrelevant. Her friend tried to toss a “remember your boyfriend” cockblock in to fuck with him but Maggirl herself blew it off. Because she wants his cock.

4. The “don’t wait up if I’m late” is a little strange since Maggirl doesn’t know where the dinner is going to be. You would think she would ask her friend where if only out of politeness so that she could have said, “ok, and I’ll try to catch up with you there if I’m late” or something like that.

That’s because they were having a girl-code conversation. Cockblock was saying “Here’s your chance to come with me to escape this guy if he’s creepy” and Maggirl was saying “It’s cool, I want this guy’s cock and I’m giving him a chance, go on ahead without me” and Cockblock threw in a last “Just don’t forget about your boyfriend!” because she knows Maggirl does what she wants and all she can do is try to guilt her a bit and make it awkward for the guy.

Anyway, in response to what to do: There’s not enough comfort for a kiss at this point since she’s all alpha and still testing you, but there’s enough for a number for sure, and possibly a small insta-date (she probably won’t blow her friends off entirely, but she’ll give you some time to build more comfort with her).

If you want the number, you just tell her “So give me your number and we’ll go shark hunting by moonlight after your dinner.” as you pull out your phone. Text her flirty but not too sexual during her dinner so she’ll meet up without feeling like she’s admitting she wants sex, and escalate in person. David and the cockblock chick might fuck it up though, so an insta-date would be better.

For an insta-date just tell her you’ll walk her to her car so she doesn’t get eaten by the invisible sharks. Once her shit is tossed in the car so she doesn’t have to lug it around and you’ve built a little more comfort, push for the insta-date and make her late for dinner.

Easy peasy.

I like YaReally’s frame (it’s good for your game to assume girls want to interact with you), but just to clarify, there weren’t that many open chairs, so she likely sat where she did out of necessity. Points (2) and (3) are well taken, and honestly ones I hadn’t thought of at the time. There’s a lot going on that’s easy to miss when your brain is revving to get a girl’s contact info with the clock ticking.

Anyhow, YaReally’s analysis and prescription sounds spot on, even in hindsight. (YaReally also has some other comments in that thread you’ll want to check out.) The only quibble I have is walking her to her car to help carry her stuff as part of an insta-date to build comfort. I was reclined in a chair with my feet propped up as she was packing to leave. I imagine it would have looked try-hard for me to get up and offer assistance, unless I offered a plausible excuse for why I had to leave as well. But hey, no guts no glory, right?

Grade: A

***

What I did

MagGirl had begun collecting her stuff and shoving it into a gargantuan canvas bag. She glanced sidelong at me for a second, full of sass and flourish, signifying everything.

She smiled, or maybe smirked. “Well, I’ve gotta go. It was nice talking about invisible sharks with you.”

I hesitated before replying, watching her pack for a full five seconds. It was a hesitation that likely cost me a number close.

Finally words jumped out of my mouth. “Hey, you learn something new every day. Before we’re done…”

My sentence was interrupted when her phone buzzed in her hand. She checked a text message and her perky face drooped sullenly. Did her mom just die in a car accident?

She quickly jerked her head around at me, and muttered “Bye”, taking off in a rush, her sandals clapping loudly along the ground with each rapid stride.

The exigencies of game. It rarely goes as smoothly as you think it will in your imagination. If you aren’t prepared to deal with the possible failure of any one pickup attempt, you aren’t cut out for this game.





Comments


  1. Casey at the Bat

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  2. I’m truly honored that my comments make the modcut
    along with anonymous’ “first!!!”
    and those gems of gbfm’s.

    I need a minute *sniff*

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  3. she seems like a self-absorbed b****. Why reward her by giving her attention?

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    • Because he wants to bang her?

      Moral of the story: don’t play with fire if you’re not ready to get burned and even more importantly, no matter how many novels these people write online and theorize about their approach, learn to be dynamic enough to deal with any turn in situation.

      I feel like too many people on here are too methodical; focusing more on step by step instead of developing their alpha instinct.

      Instict > method.

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      • *nods words of wisdom.

        you can imagine a scene unfold ideally in your mind all you want, but in the end it can too easily just be self-appreciating daydreaming. working on yourself and your attitude is what works.

        human behavior is too nuanced for scripts

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    • Can’t really hate on her behavior here, it was standard. In fact, I would argue her attempts at banter put her slightly on the more positive side of neutral. Had there been less obstacles, our story may have found a different ending.

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  4. Hesitate and thou art lost,..

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  5. good moral, no guts no glory. Hesitation or no, there’s no cock block like the family tragedy text cock blox. At that point, the whole enterprise was doomed to failure unless a completely different, high intensity tack was taken.

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  6. “If you aren’t prepared to deal with the possible failure of any one pickup attempt, you aren’t cut out for this game.”

    Pure, unrefined truth.

    The road to success is paved in failure.

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  7. oh, cool. who gets the tickets? me? 😉

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  8. on September 13, 2011 at 4:48 pm Wang Chung Long

    I want to say i was just walking through a park over by Union Station here in DC. Saw this pretty decent looking girl, not absurd hot, but definitely in the “i’d bend her over the bed” level. When i was standing there trying to figure out how what to say, i got lock jaw and then I thought about this post from your blog that forever stained my psyche….

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/just-say-something/

    and said “you ever twist your ankle in those heels?”

    She paused for second and gave a half ass “ha….and than a…no.”

    God i wish i had a transition but nothing was on my tounge and i just bowed off another direction and that was the end of the conversation. I still call it a win. Thanks R. Changing men one day at a time.

    God Bless ya

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    • wang

      Too bad you asked a yes/no question. With that, you’re likely to get a merely yes/no answer. Next time, ask a who what where when why or how question.

      Better odds.

      Like


      • on September 13, 2011 at 10:42 pm Wang Chung Long

        Thanks man – you’re right. It should have been a “how do you not turn your ankles in those heels on these sidewalks” and then some sort of transition…..

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    • Ya, I’d call it a win too.

      I’m not sure what percent of guys here approach regularly, but you can tally me as one of those guys who didn’t think of anything to say and walked on. So for guys like me, any step in the right direction is a big step.

      Like


    • on September 13, 2011 at 11:35 pm Obstinance Works

      Better is “You probably get into trouble in those heels.”

      But after her “ha no.”: No? You say that with such exaggerated denial. Your eyes are telling me yes.

      *Control the flow.*

      Like


      • Good stuff OW, a provocative statement most always beats a question. My style would be terser:

        “You probably get into trouble in those heels.”
        “Ha … no.”
        “Pity.”

        I was once at an airport bar reading a book. This fresh out of college 8/9 gal sits down next to me, tired. I look at her, smile faintly, resume reading. She puts down her stuff, looks around a little bewildered. I bookmark the book, put it down, look at her again, then look straight ahead and say, “God, I love airports. Don’t you?” She can’t tell if I’m serious or joking. She’s waiting to unload: “I hate them. I’ve been on business for the last six days, etc.” Then she asks me what I’m reading. I toss off something, and it helps that I know the author. The book is about traveling. The gal starts to get wistful. She orders a drink, leans into me, her body language is open. We build rapport for about fifteen minutes. “Travel? I love the rush,” I say, “the adrenaline, the getting away from whatever’s familiar, having an adventure, you know?” She’s nodding, looking into my eyes, fingering her wineglass. She could be a model. “I should really let myself have a vacation,” she says with resignation. Maybe she could change her ticket. Maybe she could really let loose this time! “There ya go,” I say. “Once you start making a living, you can’t really stop there and not, um, live a little.” “That is so true,” she says, staring directly at my mouth. Then it was time for me to board. Her expression was as if someone had just shaken her awake. She looked a little panicked. I’d never see her again, and I didn’t really care, so I boarded without any exchange of name or number. I guess you’d call this “day game,” batting practice. Airports are great for this.

        Have fun.

        Like


      • Good stuff OW. A provocative statement most always beats a question. My style would be terser:

        “You probably get into trouble in those heels.”
        “Ha … no.”
        “Pity.”

        I was once reading a book at an airport bar, right in the middle of a concourse. This fresh out of college 8/9 gal sits down next to me, tired. I look at her, smile faintly, resume reading. She puts down her stuff, looks around a little bewildered. I bookmark the book, put it down, look at her again, then look straight ahead and say, “God, I love airports. Don’t you?” She can’t tell if I’m serious or joking. She’s waiting to unload: “I hate them. I’ve been on business for the last six days, etc.” Then she asks me what I’m reading. I toss off something, and it helps that I know the author. The book is about traveling. The gal starts to get wistful. She orders a drink, leans into me, her body language opening. We build rapport for about fifteen minutes, just talking. “Travel? I love the rush,” I say, “the adrenaline, the getting away from whatever’s familiar, having an adventure, you know?” She’s nodding, looking into my eyes, fingering her wineglass. She could be a model. Her bra strap looks expensive. “I should really let myself have a vacation,” she says, drooping her shoulders. Hey, maybe she could change her ticket! Maybe she could really let loose this time! “There ya go,” I say. “Once you start making a living, you can’t really stop there, and not, you know, actually live a little.” “That is so true,” she says with sudden vehemence, staring directly at my mouth. Then it was time for me to board. Her expression was suddenly as if someone had just shaken her awake. She looked a little panicked. I’d never see her again. I didn’t really care, so I boarded without any exchange of name or number.

        I guess you’d call this “day game,” batting practice. Airports are great for this. Have fun.

        Like


      • Good stuff. I like the opener. “God, I love airports. Don’t you?” And I noted all the positive suggestions and frame setting NLP stuff in your conversation.

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  9. I just confused the battle hymn of the republic and the Star Wars Imperial March.

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  10. No sour grapes, but does Hartiste have a mancrush on YaReally or what? They’ve been tickling each others’ balls with featured comments for weeks. Yes, we were all caught in a 2004 time warp before this alpha rogue swooped in to liberate us with his Secrets of the YaReallyBrotherhood. Please. Make your comment without feeling some urgent need to Demonstrate your contrived Higher Value against us wretched urchins of the combox.

    The “test” was an essay exam with no correct answer. The scenario was too impressionistic to do anything with but lay out proper frame. Success chiefly depends on vibe — or “exigency” — and the only way to answer fully is to fabricate details that weren’t communicated.

    The true test of game is improvisation based on strong principles and applied with courage. The precise formulation of what you say is hardly ever as important as how you say it. If I recall, “Just Say Something” was a blog post here once. I suspect if you had real time transcripts of our best interactions, we’d look at the words on the page and think, “Huh? How did that work?” But it does.

    Sixty percent of all human communication is nonverbal, body language; thirty percent is your tone. So that means that ninety percent of what you’re saying ain’t coming out of your mouth.

    (A fortune cookie of wisdom in a film that, like all attempts to portray game, ultimately devolved into the poo-poo platter.)

    Like


    • “does Hartiste have a mancrush on YaReally or what?”

      lol

      “They’ve been tickling each others’ balls with featured comments for weeks.”

      ‘Cuz I’m awesome.

      “The scenario was too impressionistic to do anything with but lay out proper frame.”

      Not if you have a lot of experience. Quit KJ’ing and spouting theory and go out more and you’ll find you run into a lot of the same situations over and over and can extrapolate from “impressionistic” scenarios based on that experience.

      “The true test of game is improvisation based on strong principles and applied with courage. The precise formulation of what you say is hardly ever as important as how you say it.”

      Blah blah blah. This is true, but shit like this is why I “Demonstrate my contrived Higher Value against you wretched urchins of the combox”, ’cause you’re just mentally masturbating with this mentality. “90% of communication isn’t words, so I’m not going to work on words!!!” “I bet no one is smooth when they succeed, so I’m not going to work on being smooth!!!” “Looks don’t matter so I’m going to dress like a slob!!!” “Money doesn’t matter so I’m going to live like a bum!!!” “Game is overthinking, I’m just going to barrel in like a bull in a china shop and cross my fingers!!!”

      Ya, it can work here and there. But if you actually worked on all aspects of your game, you’d get more consistent results. That’s all PUAs strive for: consistent results.

      “I suspect if you had real time transcripts of our best interactions, we’d look at the words on the page and think, “Huh? How did that work?””

      Not if you understand the concepts of game. This goes back to what I said about the Horse Girl opener and watching the Simple Pickup guys. If you don’t understand game, it looks/sounds silly. If you understand game, you see a dozen consistent attraction concepts that form the structure of why the “silly thing” worked.

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      • YaReally wrote: “I bet no one is smooth when they succeed, so I’m not going to work on being smooth!!!”

        Always work on being smooth. The silkier the better. But smoothness is more execution and state of mind than it is the choice of words. You implied as much in your Horse Girl opener commentary. So basic a lesson may seem obvious to you, but it’s apparently a big stumbling block for initiates.

        Yes, work on all aspects of your game — combining the right words with the right frame and the right tone is the holy grail. But in a pinch, we all prioritize. Until you develop a total facility with all facets of the game, concentrating on the essentials is your best bet. Forget practicing the 360 Gorilla Dunk if you’re having trouble with the dribble.

        Better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. If repartee isn’t your forte, work on your je ne sais quois. (Eat my French, le Chateau.) The tingly intangibles are more vital than the quality of your script. The confidence and mastery that is conveyed by a sure delivery animates the tingle, not the words themselves. Often confidence is best conveyed laconically, or even in silence.

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      • “Until you develop a total facility with all facets of the game, concentrating on the essentials is your best bet. Forget practicing the 360 Gorilla Dunk if you’re having trouble with the dribble.”

        I concur. I think we just have different definitions of which part are the essentials. Body language is more important than words for sure (Hitch’s 90/10 ratio I’d agree with), but words are a lot easier to get a newbie to fix than body language.

        For example: A newbie who walks into a bar standing up straight with his head up who knows to speak slowly and make eye contact when he talks to someone is still going to stand there not talking to anyone. He could go out a hundred nights and he’s still going to feel as socially akward as before.

        Reversed: A newbie who walks into a bar looking akward, but can open 10 chicks and tease/flirt to keep a conversation going for a few minutes is going to naturally start to feel less nervous about approaching or being in a social environment because he’s got a guideline to follow to throw himself into 10 interactions. A hundred nights later, he’s probably going to have a lot more confident body language and relaxed tone of voice.

        Environment counts too. James Bond doesn’t get laid at a nightclub, Stiffler does. But James Bond would rock less chaotic environments like daygame.

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    • Also, because you quoted Hitch:

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      • This is the good part of Hitch, before he inexplicably turns into a herbly weirdo. I haven’t been able to revisit the movie since the last half shits all over the first and left me with the taste of dookie in my mouth. Thanks for the post, I had a dim memory of the good parts.

        But it also goes to my point. This is a great dialogue scene that presents pick-up in its ideal Platonic form — an artistic rendering of what you call “KJ’ing,” “spouting theory,” and “blah blah blah.” These conversations are only possible because one screenwriter is composing both sides of the exchange. The scene artistically approximates the feeling we get after a successful approach, but be totally honest — nobody talks like that. Nobody talks like Grace Kelly and Cary Grant in To Catch A Thief either. Or Romeo and Juliet, for that matter. Life is improv, and improv is not seamless. Better to internalize that truth and roll with it so that hiccups in your delivery don’t throw you completely.

        The long, involved third-person references, the rapid exchange of perfect witticisms, the eliciting of precise reactions from the mark — these things happen but never with such high gloss. That’s why most responses to “A Test of Your Game” were insufficient: commenters were playing screenwriter rather than the extemporaneous master of “exigency.”

        Or, to coin a phrase, “It rarely goes as smoothly as you think it will in your imagination.” That was Heartiste’s ultimate takeaway that strengthens real game — the practical skill set that comes in handy when you “go out more” — rather than wasting effort on a quixotic attempt to make the world into a movie in which you play the lead role.

        Le Chateau has endowed you with plenty of web cred to call out my criticisms, so get down with your bad self. My narrow point about the mutual scrote tickle was this: Your responses are strong — strong enough to stand alone without needlessly calling attention to the contrast. “Try-hard” put-downs of journeymen are beneath you.

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      • “These conversations are only possible because one screenwriter is composing both sides of the exchange. The scene artistically approximates the feeling we get after a successful approach, but be totally honest — nobody talks like that.”

        No. YOU don’t talk like that. It takes a certain combination of personality types: The guy has to have sharp verbal wit, and the girl has to have a certain level of sarcastic shit-testing verbal wit, but it’s not some magical alignment of the planets.

        If your personality type is the “the less you say, the cooler you are” James Bond type, then you won’t have interactions like this. If your personality type is the over-the-top Stiffler party-caveman, then you won’t have interactions like this. But if your personality is more Ryan Reynolds, John Mayer, etc. dry/sarcastic wit, you’ll have tons of them.

        If the girl’s personality type is the “shy, quiet girl” type, you won’t have interactions like this. If her personality type is the “out-going friendly nice girl” type, you won’t have interactions like this. But if her personality type is the “confident, sarcastic shit-testing” type, you’ll have tons of them.

        This is why I call KJ theory on what you posted. You’re making absolutes about “that’s not how it really works” the way someone who hasn’t visited Africa says “they all live in mud huts”. If you had more experience socializing and meeting and befriending tons of different personality types, you wouldn’t make those absolutes. Notice that I’m not making an absolute saying that you’re wrong, I’m just saying you’re right but in a very small section of the puzzle and you don’t seem to have glanced over the rest of the puzzle yet.

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      • YaReally wrote: No. YOU don’t talk like that. It takes a certain combination of personality types: The guy has to have sharp verbal wit, and the girl has to have a certain level of sarcastic shit-testing verbal wit, but it’s not some magical alignment of the planets.

        This is how women argue, from the particular. Instead of discussing the universality of the principle, they spend all their energy on hunting black swans, focusing on exceptions to the rule rather than the integrity of the rule itself. “You’re making absolutes,” you say. No, I’m deducing a principle that is so overwhelmingly applicable (no matter the NAWALTesque exceptions) that we may treat it as universal.

        People in normal conversation, or even in extraordinary conversation, simply do not speak in pristine cinematic dialogue. Do you find that a controversial statement?

        Look at transcripts of extemporaneous speaking. The run-on sentences and fragments, the repetitions, the ums and uhs — all of those infelicities that our brain filters out remain as blots on the dialogue that simply never occur in omniscient, omnipotent screenwriting. In fact, our filter is so strong that they’re hard to detect, much less admit to their ineradicability.

        … you won’t have interactions like this. But if her personality type is the “confident, sarcastic shit-testing” type, you’ll have tons of them.

        Speaking from experience, I do have “tons of them.” It’s my normal mode to be gregarious enough for the whole group until everyone’s approach-anxiety relaxes, and frankly, it’s hard to shut off. But it’s pointless to compare the perfection of art and the rough-edges of experience with regard to anything except the way the former vicariously captures the thrill of the latter.

        The Hitch clip accomplishes its artistic purpose — yes! say spectators who have experienced a similar victory (or defeat), that’s how it feels! But to emphasize the script is to detract from the style, which not only is harder to develop than words are to memorize, but is also more important to success by a factor of some three or four to one.

        I guess everything seems like “KJ theory” under a certain set of assumptions. We’re all tap-tapping away on them here.

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      • The woman in that video looks like my grandmother.

        Like


      • Eva Mendez is spicy. Muy caliente. See her in the great little Denzel Washington flick “Out of Time.” (Latinas seem to be racially interchangeable, she’s paired with dark meat as often as white bread.)

        What’s Granny’s phone number?

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    • Yeah, I hate this YaReally, I’m so jealous. At least Heartiste noticed my effort but it’s so hard to compete with men. It doesn’t help if I remind him regularly how much I like him – he’s still crushing on this YaReally. Hope they’ll have fun watching the movie together.

      Like


  11. i appreciate your candor here. great examination of an intriguing moment.

    Like


  12. on September 13, 2011 at 5:25 pm So, Do the Zonk

    Since this is really a group blog now anyway (2 or 3 people posting?), the Chateau should get YaReally to be a regular poster right out on the blog. The guy’s advice is solid.

    Like


    • Ya, he writes well, and seems to have put in the time to study and practice the material. A lot of us just give our life impressions about subjects, but he brings in more game theory (as he has practiced it in life), which can be helpful.

      Like


    • lol I’ve just been around and know my shit. I like the Chateau, men in today’s society need a site like this. I only originally chimed in to clear up the Horse Girl opener. Now I’m in love with you all. But, you know, only in a gay way.

      Like


  13. on September 13, 2011 at 5:30 pm So, Do the Zonk

    “too many people on here are too methodical … Instict > method …”

    Much of the readership here is goofball guys who have crashed and burned with girls and want to do better. Being methodical is what makes them good at everything in life EXCEPT the whole poontang business. (I raise my hand. Nothing invidious about these comments.) Guys like that (like us) have to start somewhere, and instinct can only be build out of method and practice; walk before you run, etc. People who are already naturals and have good instinct are too busy banging hot women to bother with this blog, except out of intellectual interest.

    Like


  14. Rejection, as well as the approach anxiety, becomes manageable after a while. I don’t really mind rejection anymore, it’s part of the game, and the key is to channel that little anger of being rejected into fueling your desire.

    The thing is, when you have an alpha frame, you get rejected courteously, sometimes for valid reasons. When you’re a flagrant beta, there is this cruel look that goes with many rejections, like if the bitch is trying to say “why the hell are you alive?”

    My favorite rejection so far was : “I’m happy with someone”. That’s how I want my girl to respond to any dirty-dick pua, other than myself.

    Like


    • “I’m happy with someone”.

      Assuming that the woman does not want to hurt the guy, this is the best line I have ever heard/seen to accomplish this.

      30-40 years ago “I am seeing someone” would have worked as well but it has become almost a given that today a woman saying that is just throwing up a sh*t test. Well, that and even if she is seeing someone it doesn’t mean that she won’t see someone else if she is attracted enough.

      Like


  15. I love your analysis and honesty as well (I know plenty of people who would conclude the blog post with something like “and then I went up, kissed her and fucked her there on the sand. And she swallowed the cumshot”).

    Also. this really makes me think that those posters advocating phone signal blockers might be on to something.

    Like


  16. This was fascinating to read. You should do more of these. Especially ones where it turns out well.

    Like


  17. I recently was shot down, hard, in front of 2 guy friends, my favorite bartender and a distant relative. Ego? Not harmed. I smiled, knowing that winning always tastes better with the risks involved.

    A friend tried to cover for me, saying “Dude, her ass looked huge when she got in the cab.” I responded, “She was hot. Her ass was fine. If I didn’t give it a try, I’d still have no number. Let’s go get a drink.”

    Later that night, I number closed on a less attractive but much calmer gal — who I continue to see to this day. Egos aren’t easily crushed.

    Like


    • on September 13, 2011 at 11:50 pm Obstinance Works

      I was at a point once where girls weren’t even rejecting me for a couple of months. I was on top of the world, but the last couple of weeks I would just stop the approach mid-stride, because I was actually missing some resistance. I’m still of that mindset today. Girls are being turned down who give too many IOIs at first. You would not believe some of the situations I’ve traversed with little or no effort. It’s like breathing. Sex doesn’t drive me from a social perspective anymore, because I know I can have it when my body craves it.

      I need to make it hard as possible sometimes, because I love improving my game as much as winning. It feels like a profession. A profession that I will always love. A hobby with no limits. Hell. I think I’ll start a blog of my own in another year (my goal). As soon as I get my business ideas off the ground. Oh yeah. Many thanks to this blog of course.

      Like


      • Would you be interested in telling us more about your path to master game-hood? As an apprentice gamesmen, I am eager to hear more.

        Like


      • I can’t disagree here, but curiously I was on the receiving end of not one, not two, but three flakers in the past month. The last time I had a gal flake on me was… 2 years ago?

        In some ways, it was more than a curiosity, causing me to self-reflect on why that may have happened. The gals I’m seeing solidly still show massive interest, the gals I’ve LJBF’d still want to spend time on my schedule and call, so what was it about the 3 new ones who flaked, all in a row?

        Then I realized: it’s back-to-school season, they’re all young, and it’s standard form for college-aged and college-attending gals to flake. I think it was the mighty Roosh that had a calculator for flake potential (under 25 -1 point, etc), and had forgotten that flaking is even an option.

        The high point of this story is that it’s given me that challenge I guess I was missing. Not a challenge to chase a flaker (dating is dodgeball, not baseball, it’s one strike and she’s out), but a challenge to meet more gals in those age groups who won’t flake. I do love me a challenge when the seasons change.

        I did see a correlation in flakers: if they’re young and average, they don’t flake. If they’re young and really hot, they don’t flake. If they’re young and cute, they almost always flake. It’s like the cute-but-not-hot young gals have way more orbiters or something.

        Like


    • A motto I created for myself concerning rejection is:

      A blade is best after it’s been scraped against the whetstone.

      Like


  18. Well, been waiting for this one for a while just to see how well my own ratings (in the comments) matched up with those of the mighty C. And, yes, this IS a transparent effort to get you to go back and read them.

    Like


  19. Nice reframe of the “first” comment. The game never stops!

    Like


  20. Holy frick, A.B. Dada is….handsome. Always interesting to see some nice looking men in my world of ugliness.

    Like


  21. On the Beach in the Setting Sun Game?

    Just be wearing a black leather biker jacket with no shirt under it, just your manly chest, and with the stunningly cute face of a Tea-Cup Poodle looking fearfully out over the zipper at the cruel, dangerous world that you are protecting her from.
    Even the CB will want to have your babies.

    Like


  22. @ Luka;preacher

    “I feel like too many people here are too methodical…instinct is greater than method.”

    Perhaps. I do agree that honing your instincts and re-wiring your ‘inner game’ is the ultimate level at which to be at. A well refined PUA doesn’t need lines or scripts and can improvise on demand using the environment.

    However I still firmly believe that methodology and process are important aspects of game to study for any level. As men we are logical, rational and analytical beings. We like to use the scientific method to collect data, process it to information and apply it so it becomes knowledge. This should be embraced.

    ‘one has to start somewhere.’ This why I believe the MM is great for beginners. Not memorizing all the crap, but the process. The goal at which is to reach unconscience competence with just “knowing” where you are at in the seduction cycle.

    Like


  23. “MagGirl had begun collecting her stuff and shoving it into a gargantuan canvas bag.”

    All women carry these huge bags. I use this as an opener, a playful tease during conversation or on a date, all the time:

    “Woh that’s a huge bag, are you having a yard sale?” Depending on compliance you can then peek in the bag and murmur “what is all this crap/do u really need all this?” From here you can go anywhere…after grabbing 6 lip gloss containers and other crap and makeup shit I’ll start askin “why do u need so many, how many sets of LIPS do you have?” (Ignore responsec continue digging in bag) etc. Etc. Or act playfully confused, “I don’t understand what this is for?

    Very fun and playful gambit. Used it today on a date when the waitress came up to the table, had both women laughing…

    Like


  24. Off topic, but here’s what someone had to say about R’s blog during an argument about fat chicks. I linked him to the epic “Obesity to Blame for Game post”. Pretty amusing.

    “The link is a joke…it’s a word press blog which looks like it was written by a frat boy.

    I just noticed you are 19. Makes more sense now. You have a lot to learn my friend. Being superficial is usually a trait associated with youth. As you age you will learn to judge women by their character rather then their bodyfat. Good luck.”
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=138058183&p=750110523&viewfull=1#post750110523

    Like


  25. Miley Cyrax wrote:

    Hesitate like a deer in the headlights, until the sight of her walking away spurs you into action. Yell “wait!,” while getting up to chase after her, before tripping over your beach chair and falling on your face.
    She turns around.
    Trying to DHV as you pick yourself up (flexing the triceps as you push yourself off the ground), you sheepishly ask “has anyone told you that you have a C-shaped smile?”

    Heartist wrote:

    Neil Strauss wept.
    Grade: A+ for slapstick humor

    Man, that was seriously funny. I almost burst my gut laughing out loud.

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  26. Excellent post.

    I think in general, the responses placed a bit more emphasis on the minutiae than necessary.

    What I’ve realized after years of trying to get good at this crap, many failed attempts, dates, & closes, is that once you understand the basics, you can run on principles:

    Tease. Don’t take yourself too seriously. Don’t take her too seriously. Stay positive. Don’t give a shit about results. Worry about amusing yourself.

    And how do you get to that point where you can focus on these things instead of what the next string of words out of your mouth?

    Practice, practice, practice. There is absolutely no other solution.

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  27. One of the key learnings…never be over-invested in the outcome.

    In this case, the honesty of the learning is key.

    If you hesitate you lose momentum.

    If you go for it and get shot down…keep your crap together.

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  28. I like how you’re sincere all the time R.

    Best of them Regards and all that

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  29. Just consider the alternative…

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44506819/ns/world_news-europe/#.TnBeYb_UCMI

    Ill take 1000 failed attempts over this opposite extreme of beta cuckoldry any day.

    In the situation with the interrupting girl, you have to realize the manquation(tm):

    coldness of bitch * money – skill of game + time = cost of lay. Cost of lay + genetic compatibility = awesomeness of sex.

    You’ve got balls for going into that one Roissy. I would have fucked up but only because of the five minutes of waiting for that “hey”. My alpha burns in the silence of not approaching. When I see a girl I want to stick it in, I hadly let myself burn in the fire of their beauty. I either approach someone else first, or approach them as soon as I seem them. I am waaaay too impatient to look at something I want and not have it.

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  30. “Been getting criticism from valued commenters that comment quality has tanked. Should comments be moderated? Send your informal vote.”

    Original commenters may be nostalgic about the mix of personalities from twi-three years ago, so things changing there as the blog becomes more popular is inevitable. Also, in 2008-2009, this was a very new kind site, combining Game with alt-right politics. This quality hasn’t been surpassed by any other blogger, but it’s not something new anymore.

    Many comments today are still very good, and moderating comments at least for the time being will be a good way of cutting down on insipid back and forths.

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  31. Chateau Heartiste, where people talk about invisible sharks.

    Kidding, but props for going on even after her being an overconfident whore became clear.

    Like


  32. Much respect for posting a story where it didn’t work out. It’s a good reality check lesson for those guys who think anything close to a 100% success rate is ever possible.

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  33. Hey! I’m the one that wrote FIRST!!! :)))

    I’m not a guy, I’m a girl. I feel famous. That was fun! 😀

    Like


  34. In “Get the Girl” Mehow writes that, if a woman resurrects a theme that was going on before an interruption, it won’t be lame to continue with it. In fact, he notes that you’ll want “to bring her into your world” where a fantasy world or past or future world that you both share is great.

    This is why YoReally’s idea of taking the woman shark hunting after her dinner won first prize. It sure beat the silence that really happened.

    It wouldn’t be lame because she’d resurrected the theme herself.

    Mehow writes that, otherwise, a man should not resurrect any theme he was discussing before an interruption. He has to think of something entirely new, which could be difficult in the field but life’s a bitch, just do it.

    But after resurrecting the theme herself, she’d have been game on the hunting idea (although it’s forever a mystery what the text was that sent her running). If she’d been game, he could even stay in frame, saying that the sharks tend to swarm after 10pm and he’d meet her then at the scallop bar on the wharf where he’d instruct her on the invisible harpoons. It might sound lame in print but fantasy talk works in the field as long as there’s a positive feedback loop going on. And, in this case, he’d be using it to close, not to flog a used theme as if he was still trying to establish attraction.

    Finally, it actually is OK, if a woman had shown signals that “signified everything”, to run after her, stop her and close if he’d hesitated enough to let her walk away. The only reason why a man would not do that is if other hotties are watching or he can reasonably expect to see her again. The biggest things that any man will regret his entire life is not doing that in certain instances. I don’t know what that text said that changed her mood so badly, but the host probably still had an excellent chance of number closing (20%?, 40%?) even after she hurried away. Most women aren’t that sharp. She sounded like a keeper (in relative terms of course).

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  35. Dude! I was going to say the same thing as you! “Before you go…”. Bottom line is it that it is hard to think of fancy shit when a 9 unexpectedly shows up in the middle of your day. So if she is IOI’ing you, just be direct and unfiltered. “Before you go… give me your phone number… sit down for a drink… give me a sip of your water… let me have that magazine…” Whatever! If it goes somewhere, great. If not, there are a thousand girls just around the fucking corner!

    Like


  36. Golden rule from all this:

    Always flirt with other girls.

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  37. 50% success is pretty damned impressive, let alone 100%. If you can consistently get 1 of 5 hits, then you’re pretty sharp.

    Day game and social context makes it much easier. If you haven’t, try it out some time.

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    • Like batting average. Strike out seven of ten tries and you’re in the Hall of Fame. Six of ten and you’re indisputably the best player of all time.

      Or it’s like slugging power. Or both: OPS.

      Full disclosure: watching lots of baseball lately.

      Like