Female Rapists

Reading about these horror stories left a bad taste in my mouth:

Patrick Connaro, a 42-year-old robotics engineer living in Colorado Springs, was sitting in the bleachers one warm Saturday afternoon in 2003, watching his son’s Little League game, when the ground opened beneath him.

“My little boy was there, he was up at bat, and I started yelling for him, ‘Go Matthew [not his real name]! Knock it out of the park!’ And another man started screaming for Matthew. Louder than me. I looked over, and I looked at him, and I was like, Who is this guy? And I looked at my son, and I looked at him … and they were identical.”

After the ball game, Connaro ordered a paternity test. The results came back 2 weeks later. “I opened up the letter from Labcorp, and it said, ‘ … 99.9 percent chance you are not the biological father of this child.’ I started crying. My head started spinning.”

Patrick, good provider beta male, dutiful husband, and doting father, was cuckolded by his wife and spent years of his life raising another man’s child.  Would his wife, whom he knew so well and loved so deeply for her outer and inner beauty, ever own up to her monumental lie?

Connaro admits that the possibility had crossed his mind before, given his son’s dissimilar facial features, but each time he questioned his wife about it, she vehemently denied the suggestion. Even when he showed her the test results, she still denied it. “She said, ‘You forged this,’ ” Connaro recalls, shaking his head in amazement.

Ethicists are baffled!

Cuckoldry is, at least from the gene’s point of view, the worst thing that can befall a man outside of getting killed.  We are here on this earth to serve one purpose — the propagation of our genes.  Everything we do is either designed to push us toward that goal or is a byproduct of that purpose.  So when a wife cheats on a husband, bears another man’s child, and then monopolizes the time and resources of her husband toward the raising of that child, she has stolen his reproductive sovereignty just as surely as hers would be stolen if she got pregnant by a male rapist and was forced to raise a child she didn’t want.

She has committed the equivalent of female rape.

While rape is associated with horrible physical trauma which mercifully lasts for minutes on average, cuckoldry embodies the lower-intensity but longer-duration physical trauma of exerting oneself for years to accumulate resources for child rearing.  Psychologically, both are traumatic.  In fact, cuckoldry is actually worse than rape in one noteworthy respect — opportunity cost.  A woman raising a rapist’s child is still propagating her genes, unlike a cuckolded man who propagates nothing for the time he is deceived into raising a bastard child.

Keep in mind that a man’s resources are equivalent to a woman’s body.  Both are the bread and butter of their respective sexes for fulfilling the prime directive of DNA replication.  Rape is universally despised because the violation cuts right to the core of a woman’s essence.  Cuckoldry does the same to a man, so why is it not nearly as universally despised?  Where are the marches and policy discussions and gender studies departments to right the wrongs of cuckoldry?

The answer is simple.  In genetic terms, men are expendable, and this deeply rooted awareness trickles up into the social and political sphere where indifference to male issues rules the day.  If you think the indifference stems from the low incidence of cuckoldry, think again:

And research shows that it’s a lot more common than we might believe.

After recently reviewing 67 studies on the subject, University of Oklahoma researchers found that PD rates tend to be much higher among men who have reason to believe there’s been more than one dog in the yard. No surprise there. But leave out these men and you end up with a number that can safely be assumed to represent the rest of us. That number is 3.85 percent. Another review of 19 studies by a group at Liverpool John Moores University backs this up, putting the figure at 3.7 percent of dads. It may not seem like a lot—until you do the math. According to a 2005 U.S. Census Bureau report, there are 27,940,000 fathers nationwide with a child under 18. That means over a million guys out there are taking care of some other man’s kid.

This number is about 10X higher than the number of forcible rapes committed against females in 2005.

So what are we, as a just and moral nation, doing about this epidemic of reproductive theft?  Well, according to the article, forget about doctors giving their help to the forces of light; they are in on the fix.

The fact is, the overwhelming majority of physicians will not tell a man the truth about PD.

“Most doctors are going to say to themselves, Jeez, I don’t want to cause a problem in this family by disclosing this information that I just stumbled across,” says Alan Meisel, J.D., director of the Center for Bioethics and Health Law at the University of Pittsburgh. “Why create problems if I don’t have to?”

And the law?  Men are being forced to pay child support for children not their own.  As usual, the law is an ass.

My solution to the scourge of cuckoldry is quite simple, which means it will never be implemented.  A marital pre-nup should require all mothers submit to a paternity test upon the birth of any children.  If paternity is verified, pass the cigars.  If not, the man has the legally sanctioned choice to immediately leave his wife with ZERO obligations, financial or otherwise, plus the wife will be required to remit his portion of the investment in her during her pregnancy.  A deal is a deal.

If the law raises the stakes for women intent on committing cuckoldry, there may be some blowback in the form of women opting to forego marriage to a beta provider entirely if she cannot exercise her historical option of getting him to foot the bill for the product of her indiscretion with the bass player.  While this structural change in the mating system may be bad for the health of society as a whole, for the individual unfortunate betas, this side effect at least affords them a chance to improve themselves as men without being saddled with unwanted fatherhood.

Like rape, cuckoldry is the soulkilling dis.  Women who commit these vile acts and then perpetuate them with lies piled atop of lies ought to be shunned — culturally, legally, and financially.  They do not even deserve the courtesy of a kiss while getting pumped and dumped.  If they don’t experience painful consequences for their actions, nothing will change.





Comments


  1. sugarpie…
    cockoldry is bad…..but i dont think its rape..
    and as ANY dominatrix will tell you..some men ASK (even pay extra)..for it….
    xoxo

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  2. I think saying that that is the same as rape is just classifying it in the wrong way. Its more like a husband having a secret life the entire time he’s been with his wife, cheated on her regularly and had children with another woman and then denies it when the other woman comes a calling.

    Its a matter of time, money, energy and secrets.

    Rape is a brutalizing thing that many women and men take years and often a lifetime to move on from. Its about physical and emotional violation, pain, control and humiliation.

    While what these women do is completely vile, its just not the same thing.

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  3. “Rape is a brutalizing thing that many women and men take years and often a lifetime to move on from. Its about physical and emotional violation, pain, control and humiliation.”

    Actually studies have shown that raped women lead normal enough lives, they get on with it. Indeed given how common rape has been throughout human history it would be unusual if it could completely destroy a woman’s willpower and life. And your second sentence is incorrect, rape is about none of these things, it is entirely about sex. As an all or nothing genetic strategy for zeta males facing reproductive oblivion rapist genes will have, and will probably continue to endure somewhat in the population, although abortion is making this less likely.

    “Its more like a husband having a secret life the entire time he’s been with his wife, cheated on her regularly and had children with another woman and then denies it when the other woman comes a calling.”

    No it’s not like this at all. If he can maintain children with another woman, all well and good, this doesn’t affect his wife much. Maybe she has less resources, but the resources the man uses on his other children belong to him anyway. On the other hand in the cuckoldry scenario the woman steals resources from the man in order to raise a child that shares none of his genes. In the mistress scenario the man spreads HIS OWN resources, in the cuckoldry one the woman STEALS his resources and time.

    Now some guys can grow to be ok with raising another mans child (although a depressing literature shows that the greatest predictor of whether a child will be abused or not is the presence of a stepfather), especially if they’ve been lead to believe the child is his own, but then when he’s older say, finds out this isn’t true. A man can continue to love this child. We are genetically pre-programmed to enjoy raising children in and of itself, the ACT pushes various pleasure buttons in the brain, hence the concept of adoption.

    However, from the genes-eye-view this is nothing but masturbation, pushing the nice pleasure buttons the genes designed without actually fulfilling ‘your’ side of the bargain and spreading those genes further.

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  4. If real men trained their sperm in the art of sperm warfare as I have, this type of shit wouldn’t happen. That’s all I’ll say. That’s why my boys are doing two a days now, shit is getting for serious in the streets. You gotta protect your house.

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  5. The idea that ‘rape is about humiliation, degrading women etc’ is a quite recent feminist one that seems to have spread like wildfire through the entire western memeplex. It’s complete nonsense. I think it was Steven Pinker who pointed out the real reason why feminists invented this. Basically feminists assumed that men and women were the same, and enjoyed sex the same.

    But taken to its logical conclusion this meant that the idea that rape was a ‘bad thing’ was problematic. If women wanted cheap sex as much as men, then surely they should enjoy rape! After all, men wouldn’t say no if a woman forced herself on them. Modern feminism, good product of the sixties that it was, could not say anything bad about the sex act itself, which must always be good (because only evil right-wingers say its bad in some situations). So to plug this gap feminists invented another rationale for rape – it wasn’t about sexual pleasure – it was about humiliating and degrading women, nice feminist buzzwords.

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  6. That rape can be both about sex & about humiliating/degrading the victim. They’re not mutually exclusive – do you seriously believe that the prospect of taking someone by force, or of sexually humiliating & completely dominating others cannot be experienced as deeply erotic?

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  7. One flaw in the piece I noticed. You can’t compare the total number of men raising children not their own unawares to the total number of women raped in a year. They bear no association. If you compared the total number of men who began their cuckoldry in a given year and compared that to rape of women, then you might have a comparable figure. If the numbe was men raising children under 18 not their own, then you must necessarily divide the number by 18 before you compare to rapes in a year – meaning that there are two rapes of women by men for every woman having a child with a man she is not married to.

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  8. Ben–Agreed, they should be shunned.

    Cuch–Yikes. You can believe rape is about whatever you want to believe its about but as a female, I don’t want a group of men forcing themselves upon me or ANYONE forcing themself upon me EVER.

    If you were gang raped at gunpoint by men, AS A MAN, would you assume that was about sex? I doubt it.

    Besides the obvious of degradation, the idea of the pain, fear and humilation are pretty much natural instinct.

    So TO THE MAN rape may not be about that but it sures feels that way to the victim.

    Just saying. Life isn’t cut and dry. Its not always about one thing or another.

    There is a reason rape is used as a tool of destruction in many wars. Because it destroys the victim.

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  9. PS–I don’t condone what women like this do…its disgusting. So please don’t assume that I do. This is shit that I couldnt do in my wildest dreams.

    And in terms of the alternative situation, I meant that its more similar in terms of the humiliation and waste of time for the wife if the husband had a whole other wife and other kids.

    That is humiliating and she would have wasted her best years on a man who didnt give a shit about her…you are assuming she would stay with that guy…I am assuming she would have to start over from scratch.

    Just like this guy. Wasted life, lies, embarrassment.

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  10. No, it’s because you’re trying to breed the enemy population out of existence. No soldier has any interest in destroying/humiliating women. IDF notwithstanding.

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  11. Why’re we discussing women? Why’re you even mentioning women? What’s with the obsession with women? Why’re you COMPARING this to something that happens to women?

    This is vile. Absolutely vile. She’s using a guy for his resources. It’s horrible, it’s terrible. Each crime has its own reasons for being vile. You comparing it to rape is because of two things I can see: a) trying to bring in the same negative feelings to the crime b) showing how women play the victim much better, in your view.

    Yes, men have a lot of neglected rights. Their rights in divorce, their rights in paternity (http://www.fathers-4-justice.org/f4j/ — you can see exactly what lengths the guys have been to in the first paragraph on there. Batman suits and invading parliament!!). When people talk about, in literature or in statistics, about rape, they don’t talk about men being raped. They don’t come forward? Their accusations aren’t taken seriously?

    So, what is a person meant to do? What. Am. I. Meant. To. Do. About. IT?

    Yes, make paternity tests mandatory(although there might probably be a minority of cases where the labs get them wrong — because things like that happen in this world). But how do you get this action happening, hm?

    Perhaps we need to stop relying on the law (because it’s so difficult to change) and try to enforce a few things ourselves. You can start by telling all your pals exactly who’s cheating on who. Go, you.

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  12. Er, you may want to actually read some of the accounts of the mass rapes in Bosnia, Darfur, etc. – that many of the men involved in this were not getting off on sexual humiliation of women while carrying out their ethnic cleansing duties is ridiculous.

    And why not? Sexually humiliation / total control/overpowering others/non-consensual sex are fairly common fantasies & kinks (which most people don’t act on of course). Why would a rapist, who actually acts on this fantasy, be any different?

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  13. Sex is not a weapon of war. It is the ‘bounty’ of war. In hunter gatherer societies the purpose of most wars on other tribes is usually to acquire more women, not to ‘humiliate’ women, but to sire more children. Read the Illiad.

    And obviously rape feels that way for the victim, and obviously women don’t want to be raped, where did I argue against that? I only said that the main purpose of rape is sexual gratification for the male, not the humiliation or degradation of the woman.

    “I meant that its more similar in terms of the humiliation and waste of time for the wife if the husband had a whole other wife and other kids.”

    But if the husband continues to invest in the wife and children, then does the wife really lose that much overall? Studies have shown that women are far more tolerant of male infidelity than men are of female infidelity, and genetic data shows that polygamy was a major force for most of human history. Mistresses were common until after the war, and are still tolerated in places like France. Male infidelity doesn’t hurt the wife directly, unless he gets up and leaves her for the other woman.

    A woman is always certain that she is raising her own genes, and a man helping her raise them is good for her and her genes in and of itself, even if he has another family. But a woman tricking a man into raising another mans genes – female infidelity – is much worse. As I’ve said, the man wastes time and resources. It isn’t the same because in your example the woman does not waste her time and resources, she is still raising her own genes and getting help too, the fact that he has another woman is irrelevant.

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  14. Ben–I don’t see any problem with that…but I also don’t see anything wrong with pre-nups. I am a romantic by nature but a realist at heart….sometimes you need to take precautions.

    So if my fiance asked for a paternity test, that would be no problem.

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  15. Look, fellas, until quite recently (the period between 1880-1920), the whole of society in the English-speaking world was organized around preventing cuckoldry and ensuring that men raised their own children and not someone else’s. English law assumed that any child born in a marriage were the husband’s, it’s true, but the corollary of that was that he could take them away from his wife and send them to be raised wherever he saw fit. Women had NO custodial rights at all if they wanted a divorce (even if their husbands were cheating), or if their husbands divorced them for their adultery. In many parts of the world, society is still organized that way.

    I think adultery and cuckoldry are terrible, wicked things – not just because of what they do to men, but what they do to children. But the attitude by some (not all) feminist types towards cuckoldry is recent, and it’s never spread very far outside of those circles. I think an interpretation of the law that forces men to pay support for children who aren’t biologically theirs is also very unjust, but it may yet be challenged. The point is that these trends are very recent and may not last much longer; after all, most of these people haven’t had many children to pass their attitudes on.

    And by the way, there were and are situations parallel to a cuckold supporting another man’s child that can happen to women. Until the passing of the Married Women’s Property Act in 1882, a wife’s property at the time of her marriage became her husband’s, as did any money, gifts, or salary that she earned after marriage. (It was possible to draw up marriage contracts or “settlements” so that some money remained in the wife’s control.) So if he wanted to, he could quite easily use her money to support a mistress, a number of illegitimate children, a gambling habit, or whatever took his fancy. And even today, a husband could quite easily use his wife’s money in the same way, if she’s a trusting soul and allows him ready access to it. And none of these things was or is especially rare. Be outraged at cuckoldry if you like, but cut the dramatics.

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  16. No soldier has any interest in destroying/humiliating women.

    Correct, no soldier has any interest in destroying / humiliating women; but he does have an interest in humiliating their brothers and fathers.

    Interviews with many black rapists of white women show a pattern where often the rapist’s hate of white men was a stronger motivator behind the crime than their sexual atraction to their direct victims.

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  17. To quote you Kassy:
    “Rape is a brutalizing thing that many women and men take years and often a lifetime to move on from. Its about physical and emotional violation, pain, control and humiliation.”

    To me, as a man, what these women have done sounds exactly like something that is a brutalizing thing and that a man could need years and often a lifetime to move on from. And it sounds very much like a physical and emotional violation, filled with plenty of humiliation. An event like this pretty much destroys all aspects of a man’s life. I agree with her that they ought to be shunned completely.

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  18. Rape is women completely losing what sexual power they have, that’s why it’s so bad. Women controlling access to themselves is a form of power.

    Men on the other hand usually give up some power in order to enter into a relationship like marriage. He limits his own options a symbolic gesture to the female.

    Thus I have to disagree they’re too fundamentally different, but both bad occurrences.

    Rape is about disenfranchisement, while cuckolding is about betrayal of trust.

    So unless you get raped by a close family/friend/relative, etc it won’t really be the same thing.

    Usually at the point of getting married, there’s a significant level of trust involved.

    Trust is not a good thing, if you ever ask a computer scientist. Trust is something that must be given as an axiom for things to work. Thus, it’s difficult to earn and once it is lost after being earned, it’s very difficult to regain.

    Something like cuckolding is an extreme destruction of trust, while rape is just a violation. I see rape on the level of physical violence, while cuckolding is on the level of emotional and psychological damage. If some random guy rapes you yeah, you might get some sort of weird disorder just like a solider experiencing trauma on a battlefield.

    It’s an entirely different thing if like you’re platoon leader betrays your platoon and gets everyone killed for money or something. Something like that is far more scarring then just get shot. That’s shit that fucks you up permanently, because it really makes you question humankind as a whole.

    Thus cuckolding is much worse than rape from a psychological point of view. There’s also no way to train yourself guard against in it like taking cuckolding self-defense classes.

    Unless, of course you’re VK and have commando sperm that take out the competition.

    That’s just unfair.

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  19. I would make sure to get a paternity test for any kid I had. That way, you never question it after that. Even if I was married. And no woman should be against that, because it doesn’t hurt her if she’s being faithful. If you find out that kid ain’t yours, kick that slut out your house and piss all over her stuff.

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  20. “purpose of rape is sexual gratification for the male, not the humiliation or degradation of the woman.”

    The point is that for many rapists, the humiliation of the female PROVIDES the sexual gratification for many rapists & heightens the pleasure of the act. Do any of you guys watch porn? Non-consensual scenarios are not exactly unusual for the simple reason that many people find it to be a turn-on.

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  21. Coming late to the comment discussion, but cuckoldry and years of child support for a child that isn’t yours is at least equivalent to, if not in excess of, physical rape. Why? Because it comes down to TIME. Money/Resources = Time. This is a very realistic equation for the average man who is the primary breadwinner for his family. The money spent raising another man’s child must be earned through YEARS of labor. On top of the money, those same years could have been spent raising the man’s own child and on a faithful wife. Thus, cuckoldry is twice as bad as rape, because it costs the man money and time — neither of which he can ever get back. Actually, it may even be three times as bad because unlike rape, there are few if any penalties suffered by women for engaging in cuckoldry. The State always looks to the “best interests of the child”, and generally turns a blind eye towards fraudulent conduct on the part of women.

    Now it’s arguable that a cuckolded man who raises a child as his own is getting some of the experience of being a father. But the point of raising a child is NOT simply to experience fatherhood. It is about propogating genes, which as others have pointed out, does not happen when the child is not his.

    As for solutions, paternity testing at birth would go a long way towards creating a disincentive for cuckoldry. Indeed, society used to look upon adulterous women with extreme scorn (Scarlet Letter anyone?), casting them and their cuckolded offspring out of society. Right now, however, the State doesn’t have any incentive to implement paternity testing because it would have to support children who are the product cuckoldry. This is why purported fathers are pretty much forced to put their name on the birth certificate right outside the delivery room. Hospitals actually get payments from the State for getting men to sign birth certificates (I’ve heard that it’s $10 per birth certificate).

    If a doctor discovers that a child is not the offspring of the husband, I think he has an ethical duty to disclose such information to the husband. Why? Because the information pertains to the child, and until the State says the husband has no responsibility towards the child, the husband is one of two legal guardians for the child, thereby giving him access to the child’s medical records.

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  22. What do the women who read this think of her idea of having paternity tests mandatory when a kid is born?

    Unless a woman had plans of cheating after she got married I don’t see why this would be objectionable.

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  23. If I find out after the fact that the kid is not mine, I would divorce my wife, and use my powers to sue for custody of the children. Even if it’s not my child biologically, I’m not going to squander my investment in that child irregarless of its orgins, but I’ll make sure that bitch suffers with out her children.

    Otherwise, the classic fight with the biological father works should be sufficient revenge for me…

    BTW, for those of you worried about your genes not propogating, as long as your sperm is still motive and functional, it’s not as if you can’t have children. Besides, spreading genes is so highly overrated in the modern world. If you guys were so highly interested in spreading your genes, why haven’t you gone around to spread your seed in multiple women?

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  24. The pre-nup paternity test clause only seems appropriate to me if you’ve agreed to have an open marriage & know you’re both going to be screwing around, which I’m guessing is going to be her situation if he marries.

    Otherwise, you’re basically saying that you harbor the suspicion that your future wife may be a liar, amoral, basically a lowlife & you don’t trust her. In which case, why marry her?

    If she’s actually a good person who would never do this & you still feel this way, then you’re so deeply cynical & untrusting that you are unable to see her clearly; the way she deserves to be seen. So again, why bother getting married? Marriage is not an institution for people who are going to enter into it suspiciously eyeing their spouse.

    It reminds me of those women who test their men’s faithfulness by hiring honeypots (i.e. many private detective agencies offer the service of sending a beautiful woman out to meet the target man & proposition them, to see if they’ll say yes or no) If a woman did that to me, I’d be out of there – she is clearly showing that she mistrusts & thinks poorly of me, so why bother?

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  25. on August 29, 2007 at 2:57 am longtime lurker, first time commenter

    As a male that has personal experience with forced sex, I can say without reservation that cuckoldry is not the same as rape. If males were forced to have sex by another male (think Shawshank, Deliverance or forced sodomy, if you must), I think the arguments over this analogy would cease. The denigration of self is different. But my question is why do we need an analogy/comparison at all? They both can be and often are emotionally devastating. But lets not go too far out on this. The analogy seems designed to plumb the depths of blogging controversy without really illuminating very much at all. What is worse on the relative scale of injury and insult to the person, forcible sex or mistaken deceptive parentage (“DP”)? Whose blues is worse and why? What is worse for evolutionary or monetary resources? What about forced sex that results in DP? The combination would be a gene pool nightmare that waste resources for both the man and woman.

    The analogy is unnecessary because it does little to clarify the issues surrounding either. DP is not often discussed and probably not discussed enough when it comes to public policy issues. Its drain on resources is clear for the man, but the law has decided that this is where the burden falls. In essence the burden is on the man to protect his genes before the child is born. But what does comparing it to rape actually do? We treat women issues differently precisely because women and men are different (as this blog and Rooshv.com often and sometimes eloquently discuss). Decrying this inequality says little about either issue (unless the relative seriousness of one is somehow related to the seriousness of the other). The comparison invites a worthiness question that is probably not necessary – but does make for damn good blogging comments and controversy. (like roosh blogging that date rape is a myth)

    So here is my take, there are spouses that cheat and spouses that cheat with relatives of their spouse. There are wives who leave husbands for other women and vice versa. I have heard of a lesbian who married a guy (and hid her lesbian past), had twins, then left what she would call a beta male for her previous lesbian lover. There are levels of deception that are crushing to the spirit. A husband who has a child outside of his marriage and a woman who deceptively has DP child within marriage. Having a child and deceiving the male about parentage is right up there with the worst and possibly most destructive thing that could occur to a family. The longer the deception the deeper the harm. I think the latter is possibly the worst form of deception that could exist in this hierarchy. It strikes at the heart of that over used and under examined word “family.” It is far more destructive than “gay marriage” or some other so-called denigration of marriage between a man and woman. It is worse than cheating. It is giving human form to the betrayal.

    So I disagree with the comparison, but she and the article raise very good questions that should be addressed after we give up this nonsense about rape versus dp. What should our societal response be to this issue? Forced testing, severing of parental rights, eliminating child support, genetic clarity? Should geneticist and doctors deal with this or is this a public health problem that should be legislated? If her numbers are correct, it would seem to be a problem worthy of more attention from us all. More disclosure, but when and how to do so remain. Horrible, yes? Its relationship to rape on the scale of genetic horribles and evolution issues, why does it matter?

    Since society puts the man in the position of protecting his genetic legacy from monetary harm, then a contract or pre-nup would be wise. A visit to a lawyer to set up a contract requiring testing or punishing DP could help right the burdens of cuckoldry.

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  26. What should our societal response be to this issue? Forced testing, severing of parental rights, eliminating child support, genetic clarity? Should geneticist and doctors deal with this or is this a public health problem that should be legislated?

    I’ll also add that IIRC, the reason why the courts designate the deceived father as responsible for the child support is that in many cases, there’s an existing bond between the parent and child and that’s more important than any perceived biological bond.

    IMHO, if a man determines that he has been deceived, he should be eligible to opt out of his parental bonds including child support. There are some men like myself who probably wouldn’t take that option, but there are certainly others who would. In addition, once paternity is established, the biological fathers should pay child support. Of course, the problem with that portion of the solution is that some men are unware of their offspring being rasied by other children. Thus, if he has sex with a married woman, should he (or any other man) be held responsible if she lied about birth control methods and her marital status? The child support issue gets thorny because if nobody pays it, then the taxpayer ends up paying for it via child support or via some child living in substandard housing and attending poor schools and underperforming in the future.

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  27. on August 29, 2007 at 11:02 am Cynically yours

    I wonder whether the doctors that prefer to hide the truth may face some legal liability. Anyone try it?

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  28. on August 29, 2007 at 11:10 am Cynically yours

    I just got to the end of that article. Wow.

    Still, Davis didn’t claim his right to a paternity test. “I didn’t want to raise the issue, for fear of what the judge would say if I came forward and said, ‘I don’t think those kids are mine.’ Yet at the same time, I wanted as much custody of those kids as I could get.” The end result: In 2002, Davis was ordered by the court to pay more than $1,000 a month in child support. And 5 years later, he’s still paying, even though any relationship he had with the twins has long since disintegrated.

    Poor sap. Sometimes you just have to hold your nose and do it.

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  29. on August 29, 2007 at 12:17 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    This is an extroardinarily perceptive and articulate post. This situation — women deceiving men about paternity — is getting more publicity thanks to talk show host Tom Leykis (check his podcasts at 97.1 Free FM) and men’s advocate Glenn Sacks (google him and see his blog).

    Right now in California there are elected officials and feminists who are making sure that men who learn they are not the bio dad are forced into paying 18 years child support (this is the law currently on the books). What’s worse, a woman can randomly name any guy as “dad,” and the government gives him a tiny window in which to protest, after which he’s “locked into” payments.

    This is, in essence, financial rape.

    I wish these comments, though, did not get sidetracked into a discussion on rape. As a note to posters, the old school idea (still taught in women’s studies) is based on a quote by a writer: “rape is a crime of violence not sex.” THIS WAS A QUOTE A FEMINIST SAID WITH NO RESEARCH BEHIND IT.

    Also, women who repeat the above quote have little understanding as to why men get erections: if a man was solely being violent he would not be erect. If he was, why are men not erect playing football? Thus, there has to be some sexuality behind rape. This disengagement shows how little women understand men. It also shows they don’t like to take responsibility and think anything THEY could do could influence a rape.

    We now have scientific facts behind why men rape — done by actual researchers. Here is a link to the main study, which has been very controversial: http://iranscope.ghandchi.com/Anthology/Women/rape.htm

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  30. First off not rape. Once you are raped yourself then you can try to classify it in the same thing. It’s not.

    2nd off, he probably deserved it. Whether it was something he did recently or not, karma’s a bitch.

    3rd off, she’s probably denying it because she’s in denial and so shocked and ashamed of herself for slutting it up.

    That’s my 3 cents.

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  31. @ Genevieve: What? What the fuck???

    He probably deserved it? Damn, girl. You may want to look at yourself. Your hatred is showing. You don’t even know this guy, but because he has a penis, he’s automatically guilty. Of what, we don’t know. Must be something, right?

    As for your first “point”, I have been raped. Repeatedly. As a small child. Do I qualify to comment? What this woman has done to this man is worse. Those rapes that happened to me are over. This man will always have this boy, for whom he has been father, and he knows the child is a result of a cheat and a lie. What about the boy himself? What would that be like, to know your mom is a whore, and your dad didn’t figure it out? Wait, his mom is a slut. Whores are honest about what they do. And they get paid for it.

    @ cuchulkhan: Men do, indeed, turn down women. You sound like you believe that a man has no control over his penis. We can’t help what turns us on. We can choose whether or not to act on it – and men do. Every day.

    Oh, and by the way, men can and do get raped.

    Liked by 1 person


  32. Genevieve, when I rape you, you will deserve it.

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  33. Quite a few posters seem to denigrate him and other men who have commented based on the logic that if you haven’t been raped (or aren’t female), you just don’t understand how devastating it can be. The same logic can be used in response, namely, that if you haven’t been cuckolded (or aren’t male), you just don’t understand how devastating it can be. Suffice it to say, they are both horrible crimes that should be punished severely. However, cuckoldry isn’t punished severely anymore (if at all) because the concepts of honor and shame are no longer as important as they once were.

    The government now looks at things from the perspective of whether they are good or bad for society as a whole, rather than whether they are good or bad for the individual. Perhaps this is considered “progress”, but I’m not so sure. Personal integrity will always have a place in society because it is our individual behavior that forms the basis for society itself. You cannot outsource personal responsibility to the government. Doing so gives control over your life to someone else, which history teaches us is very rarely a good thing. British statesman Edmund Burke once said “All that’s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.”

    It’s time we do something.

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  34. Check out WWDN…I hear you’re a sci fan anyways with all those Dune references.

    That clown is the definition of beta. He is cheerfully raising someone else’s progeny.

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  35. Excellent comments by JG.

    One bright point in the circumstances of cookolded men, particularly ones who continue to support the kid: they can still hope to rely on the child’s support in old age.

    In evol-psych terms, an adult doesn’t care if his elderly parent is biologically his or not. Supporting an elderly person is an act of gratitude, or debt-repayment.

    This is why the best thing someone like Davis can do is to continue raising the child as his own, particularly is there already is a good bond between them. Then, he can either have his own child with the same wife, or remarry.

    Another point is that while I agree with his overall premise and argument, I would have tossed out this sentence: “We are here on this earth to serve one purpose — the propagation of our genes.”

    Yes, he qualifies it by saying that this is from the gene’s point of view. Nevertheless, this is a nihilistic point of view, which defeats the point of an argument on ethics. It alienates anyone who believes that human life also has a transcendent dimension. It also ventures into philosophy, which is beyond the scope of this post.

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  36. Getting married involves giving up some control, taking some risk, opening yourself up, and putting trust in your spouse. That’s the nature of marriage. If you are unable to get married without subjecting your wife to paternity tests or your husband to infidelity tests, then DON’T GET MARRIED.

    No one needs to get married nowadays – if you cannot take that leap of faith, then marriage is not right for you. If you find yourself seriously considering this kind of prenup, then you are either marrying the wrong woman, or your mindset/worldview is not suited to creating a successful marriage.

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  37. Once you are raped yourself then you can try to classify it in the same thing.

    “once you are cuckolded yourself then you can try to classify it in the same thing.”

    2nd off, he probably deserved it.

    the rape victim probably deserved it. karma’s a bitch.

    3rd off, she’s probably denying it because she’s in denial and so shocked and ashamed of herself for slutting it up.

    yes, so shocked and ashamed… for seven years.
    no, she’s just a filthy lying whore taking advantage of a legal and cultural system rigged in her favor.

    Liked by 1 person


  38. Alan,

    One way to live by the “trust but verify” credo is to look at your chilrdren. Do they look like you? do they have your quirks, movement, temperament, etc? If you have doubts, then take a paternity test. Success in every aspect of life involves always sleeping with one eye open.

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  39. Alan, by your line of reasoning no one should ever get prenups of any sort ever. Because if you think the woman you are marrying will one day want to divorce you and take all the riches you earned before marriage then you probably shouldn’t marry her, right?

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  40. Another thought about the initial factual scenario she quoted. Based on the first quote, it seems like the real-dad knew his son was playing baseball. Where did he learn that information? I’ll bet the wife told him years before, but also told him to stay away from “her” son for various reasons. These reasons probably involve some negative characteristics on the part of real-dad (e.g., drug or alcohol abuse; physically violent; criminal past; etc…) and some positive characteristics on the part of fake-dad (e.g., good provider, solid career, better father-figure, etc…)

    Whatever the reasons, it’s clear that the wife was a scheming bitch. This is borne out by the subsequent quote where she is confronted with her lie. She knew she had lied to fake-dad about the paternity, but rather than be honest, she compounded things by calling fake-dad a liar! She can come up with all of the justifications for why she lied initially, which may include: (1) real-dad was a loser with no resources; and (2) she didn’t have the resources to raise “her” son alone. She has no justification for perpetuating her lie by calling fake-dad a liar. Whether or not he wants to continue supporting “his” son should be his choice alone — not hers, and not the State’s.

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  41. It’s amusing to see all the people who claim that paternity tests in marriage are a violation of trust… yet the fact of the matter is, without paternity tests, you have no recourse in the US legal system. Only 12 states even have paternity fraud laws, and many of these have statute of limitations from the birth of the child where you can still get out if it’s not yours.

    Here’s a deal: when the US legal system and society allows a man immediate opt-out and restitution when cuckolded, we’ll start trusting. Until then, the only way for a man to protect himself is a paternity test. And with over a million cuckolded men, it’s hard to call it a small problem– or call men who want a test overly paranoid.

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  42. Sorry, I can’t imagine how asking your wife to submit to paternity tests after each of your children are born can be (rightly) taken as anything other than a great insult by any woman worth marrying & a sign of serious problems in the relationship.

    If you seriously believe that you need to do this & are that worried about it, than you just shouldn’t be married. I’m bewildered as to why you think you (or anyone else who agrees with you) should be, in light of the fact that you will always believe that the woman you are married to is capable of this kind of behavior.

    I can see it now – you make her take paternity tests, you have each other trailed by private eyes to find out who’s having affairs, everyone undergos regular STD testing and reads each others emails, all in the name of trusting, but verifying. Meanwhile, the only thing you’ve proved is your mutual contempt.

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  43. Make the paternity tests compulsory, as she proposed, then no woman can feel slighted by having to submit her child to one.

    As for the comparison of cuckoldry to rape, there has been a case where women were subjected to paternity fraud in a way enough like a cuckold’s to bear comparison.

    A technician working at an artificial insemination shop substituted his own sperm for those of the anonymous donors, and became the father of many children. He was found out, and when the women, who thought they were getting someone else’s sperm, were informed, they were mortified. They realized they had been defrauded into raising the child of a man they had not consented to be the biological father.

    It was non-consensual reproduction, not non-consensual sex, the means of reproduction. But it was not consensual nonetheless. How did the women feel about this? Why, several of the women said that they felt as if they had been raped.

    So I’m with the people who think the comparison is valid. Both involve the radical imposition on another of one’s own sexual and/or reproductive agenda, the reduction in a fundamental sense of another to an object fit only for the worst kind of exploitation. I think a case can be made that women who do this kind of shit to men should be jailed. For a long time.

    And remember, the cuckolding whore-wife is inflicting paternity fraud on someone she has sworn to love and protect and nourish and all that. At least the rapist hasn’t made any big promises of love to his victim. And the rape victim doesn’t have to look back on years of a relationship with the rapist and realize that the whole time she has been a dupe and a mark. Or pay money for 18 years to the rapist because he got her with child.

    Still…the story rings somehow a bit false. Didn’t the bio father of the boy know the dupe dad would be there? Why hadn’t he shown up at any earlier games? I dunno. Something ain’t quite right there.

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  44. mq-
    What I was saying was that insecurities about power dynamics is small potatoes compared to all the other ways being cuckholded fucks with a guy. Do you really think that when guys read those stories we are thinking about “loss of control” or power? No, we’re thinking about how bad it would suck to waste all that time and money and be made a fool of.

    ps- The expression “JV” refered to “Junior Varsity”. I’ll try and make my comments more home-school friendly for you.

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  45. on August 30, 2007 at 7:26 am trainmaster01

    In third world countries, the only way an indigent woman can guarantee – at least hope to guarantee – that she’ll have a man around to till the soil and help her stay alive, is to get pregnant.

    In the “civilized” west, where woman are presumed able to fend for themselves, pregnancy is an acquired choice – who cares who the father was.

    The net effect is that any man who is raising a child, whether his or not, is to be commended.

    And routinely, with the high rate of divorces and second marriages, men (and women, too) are actively taking on the duties of raising children born of a different father or mother. And yet, in most cases, those children are just as much loved and cherished by the “new” family as the one that conceived them.

    To compare a woman’s adulterous behavior with rape is ignorance. In the first, there is a deliberate intentional act of abandoning long-standing civilized practices, and a choice by the woman. In the second, there is a deliberate intentional act of controlling another through the use of force. There is NO choice at all for the woman.

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  46. mq:
    returns to this ultimate nightmare scenario again and again as a way of expressing his insecurities about women

    total security is a pie-in-the-sky illusion in a fickle universe. people can change in the intervening years.
    or:
    and then the ostrich stuck its head in the sand.
    or:
    is wearing a seat belt a sign of insecurity?

    if he actually bonds with one of them.

    my love is like KrazyGlue.

    someone who was ACTUALLY confident that he was loved by a woman wouldn’t really worry about this scenario

    it is possible to be confident in love and still be betrayed.
    just ask patrick connaro.

    because he would trust that the woman he loved wouldn’t do this to him.

    famous last wedding vows.

    Obsessing about unlikely nightmares women might inflict on you is a sign of insecurity.

    is it obsession to brush your teeth every day to prevent cavities?
    anyhow, 4% isn’t exactly a miniscule number. 1 in 20 odds are pretty good but not good enough to run the risk of cuckolded metadeath.

    But it’s always scary to be intimate with people

    nah, it’s the greatest pleasure in the world.
    which is why i do it all the time!

    they really do get a lot of power over you.

    and you them.
    at least, if you’re confident the other person loves you back.

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  47. If we’re here on earth to “serve one purpose?” Then why aren’t you seduction artists propogating? You “win” because you get to SIMULATE evolutionary behavior with the naive, Disney-fantasy-duped 22-year-olds who fall for your lines? If you really believed the stuff you’re saying, you’d have 12 kids by 4 moms by now.

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  48. We’re got way off topic here in the last several comments. The issue is paternity fraud, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with a husband trusting his wife BEFORE he marries her. That is simply shifting the blame to the husband, which women usually try to do when they have no defense for their inappropriate conduct.

    The issue is the behavior of the husband’s allegedly trustworthy wife. People cheat on their spouses all the time, that in itself is despicable. But the wife’s breach of her marital vows is compounded exponentially by getting pregnant, falsely leading her husband to believe that the child is his, and requiring that the husband spend time and money raising the child. Women can come up with all the excuses in the world for engaging in such deceitful behavior, but the bottom line is that the ends do not justify the means. The husband must be given the choice to raise a child as his own, just like women have the choice whether to give birth or abort the child. Thus, I think a closer analogy would be that paternity fraud is like denying a woman her abortion rights.

    Paternity testing at birth to prevent paternity fraud will not, in and of itself, be implemented any time soon. Doing so would be tantamount to the State assuming that all women are cheating whores. Paternity testing could, however, be implemented under the broader umbrella of genetic testing for diseases, donor compatibility, etc… so that records exist well in advance of a need for determining whether the husband or one of his family members might be a close enough match genetically for various disease therapies. Eventually, such genetic testing at birth would allow doctors to design genetic therapies to prevent diseases from even occurring. While it is true that genetic information could be misused by insurance companies to raise premiums or deny coverage, laws could be enacted (and there are already some on the books) to prevent this from happening.

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  49. GATTACA!

    I had an orgasm when I realized, that the name of the movie was a DNA sequence.

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  50. Why trust is something bad, that must be done for the coherency of a system.

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9D0CE0DA1F3DF932A3575BC0A967958260

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  51. Trust is an illusion. Even the saintliest person in the word can’t be trusted. Each human being is a mere hair’s width from giving in to desires. We all have an Achilles Heel, at the very least.

    Trust is a word for people with emotional issues. You have no understanding of a human being’s inner self if you really believe you can trust someone. Trusting someone is placing a huge expectation and responsibility on them that is almost unfair.

    I don’t “trust” people. I simply accept that I’m going to have a relationship where I don’t bother to try and dig up the crap.

    But you should always, always understand that no human being is infallible.

    I’m training as a doctor. On behalf of men everywhere, I promise to do my best to divulge information to the dad in question should I come across such data.

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  52. dizzy8:
    Then why aren’t you seduction artists propogating?

    the purpose is served through sex. in the past before contraceptives were invented having sex meant having kids so evolution designed us to pursue sex to do the bidding of our genes. the brain still receives the same pleasurable rewards from the act of sex despite our ability to now thwart the reproductive goal.

    the naive, Disney-fantasy-duped 22-year-olds who fall for your lines?

    i know you’ll never believe this, but in my experience it’s the smartest women who fall hardest for a well-executed seduction.

    If you really believed the stuff you’re saying,

    believing’s got nothing to do with it.

    you’d have 12 kids by 4 moms by now.

    just 12?

    gatsby – well said.

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  53. Abominations of family law that force cuckolds to support other men’s children are supposedly designed to protect the children’s interests. I see no reason why the children’s interests necessarily conflict with the cuckold’s. Lacking the cuckold’s support, the mother has incentive to identify the real father, who would then be forced to support his own children.

    The “child’s interest” has produced another abomination in case law – a kid can have three parents if two of them are a lesbian couple and the third is a sperm donor.

    Pennsylvania
    http://tinyurl.com/yonxm8

    Ontario
    http://tinyurl.com/yw7y5x

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  54. You know, one of the issues that goes unexamined here is that an unfaithful woman won’t always know whether a child is her husband’s or that of another man. It may not begin to be apparent until the child starts to get older and his eyes change from blue to brown (this does happen, for those unfamiliar with babies), or his hair gets darker, or his features change from generic “baby” to those of a recognisable adult. It may not ever be obvious at all.

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  55. you’d have 12 kids by 4 moms by now.

    just 12?

    Oddly, I’d suspect that the urban ghetto would have 12 kids, but by 6 mothers, and he’d still manage to not pay a dime of child support from his drug dealing empire.

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  56. In the current era of good but imperfect birth control, the Casanova approach is the evolutionarily superior one. Some women will get pregnant despite their best (or “best”) efforts. Some of these preggers will not abort. Many of those who bear these illegitimate children will find beta husbands, and may even end up with a mixed brood of alpha and beta offspring.

    And in the process of romancing many woman, if a man finds one he really thinks he loves, then he gets to settle down and properly raise some of his alpha offspring.

    So don’t knock her evolutionary strategy. Lots of sex always beats not a lot of sex, all things being equal.

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  57. In the current era of good but imperfect birth control, the Casanova approach is the evolutionarily superior one. Some women will get pregnant despite their best (or “best”) efforts. Some of these preggers will not abort. Many of those who bear these illegitimate children will find beta husbands, and may even end up with a mixed brood of alpha and beta offspring.

    Interesting question for the gallery. If the cuckolded beta male raises the alpha’s children and the child(ren) go on to great success in life, who should take credit? The beta who raised the kids and blew money on their development or the alpha who gave the genes?

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  58. “You know, one of the issues that goes unexamined here is that an unfaithful woman won’t always know whether a child is her husband’s or that of another man.” — Alias Clio

    Irrelevant. She was still unfaithful. End-of-story. If she has any inkling whatsoever that the child might not be her husband’s she has an obligation to disclose her infidelity to him and that the child may not be his. If that ends their marriage and dooms the child to poverty, so be it. That was the mother’s choice when she cheated on her husband.

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  59. DA asks: “If the cuckolded beta male raises the alpha’s children and the child(ren) go on to great success in life, who should take credit?”

    It is completely dependent on your value system.

    If you believe in karma, or that God is taking notes, then the beta gets “credit”.

    If you do not believe in such things and/or mainly value the propagation of one’s own genes, then bio-daddy gets “credit”.

    In a few hundred years bio-daddy’s genes will probably still be around and beta-daddy’s won’t.

    In a few bajillion years the earth will be consumed by the sun and nobody will be around to care what happened to their genes.

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  60. Wow, a very meaty thread indeed.

    It’s unfortunate that so many entries on this thread address the comparison of paternity fraud with rape. The rape comparison is a red herring and irrelevant to this issue.

    I won’t make judgment calls about cheating. People do it all the time, and that’s their business. The big difference between cheating and paternity fraud is that mere cheating does not involve deception for purpose of theft. Paternity fraud does.

    Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary of Law defines fraud as:

    “1 a : any act, expression, omission, or concealment calculated to deceive another to his or her disadvantage; specifically : a misrepresentation or concealment with reference to some fact material to a transaction that is made with knowledge of its falsity or in reckless disregard of its truth or falsity and with the intent to deceive another and that is reasonably relied on by the other who is injured thereby”

    If paternity fraud isn’t deception for gain, then what is it? The woman deceives, and gains financially from duping a man to pay for her illegitimate child(ren). Legally and morally it is wrong. Wrong. Jesus, it’s wrong as hell.

    It’s outrageous that feminazis across the land are working hard to force men duped by cheating wives to PAY for the upbringing of children who aren’t theirs. I read one article, and the argument was like, “The child will suffer if the duped dad doesn’t pay.” Maybe the child will suffer. But so do a lot of kids born into unfortunate families. But does it make sense to yank poor schmucks randomly off the street and stick them with bills for all the kids born into poor families? No, it doesn’t. That would be arbitrary and unjust. But that’s exactly what’s happening with PF. Not only that, but it’s worse — the guy they pick to pay is the same guy who got duped. Talk about adding insult to injury.

    This is about choice, which is something feminists love to prattle on about when it comes their pet issues. Simply, a man has a right to know if a child he has been led to believe is his is in fact another man’s. If he chooses to support the kid then that’s his business. If he chooses not to support the kid that’s his business. After all, THE KID IS NOT HIS.

    I don’t understand all the handwringing about the need for mandatory testing. My understanding is that it’s quite easy to get paternity tests discretely and without the mother’s knowledge. A few seconds and a swab inside the cheek, and presto you know if junior is yours or the pool boy’s.

    In my view, paternity testing falls into the same ambiguous moral territory as a pre-nup. The consequences of blind trust in marriage heaven can be brutalizing. I’m pretty sure when I have kids I’m gonna get them tested quietly.

    One of my buddies knows a guy who got the shaft because he was so in love he didn’t think to test. Now he’s writing checks to pay for another man’s children while struggling to support a new family of his own.

    Protect yourselves, boys. Knowing beyond the shadow of a doubt is peace of mind.

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  61. By the way, no one has hit the right parallel for a wife yet.

    The parallel situation for a wife would be if she discovered her husband had knocked up a floozie a couple times during their marriage. Shocked, she divorces him only to discover that she has to pay the floozie child support. After all, the children were conceived by and born to her husband while she was married to him.

    Stinks to high heaven, don’t it girls?

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  62. Feminism was once about equality. Now, it’s about anger. I don’t think the anger is justified, or justifiable, but I also don’t see the present situation going on indefinitely.

    Laws regarding child support for children born within a marriage date back to the time (not that long ago; the early 1990s, I think), when there was no certain way to determine the paternity of a child, except if the child’s blood type was neither that of the legal father or the biological mother. When that was still true, the law had a vested interest in ensuring that husbands couldn’t arbitrarily decide that a particular child wasn’t theirs, and refuse to support it. Some day, the courts will acknowledge the change and act accordingly.

    Although there is one current issue that threatens the possibility of such a change: the growing tendency of some courts to recognise any sexual partner of a parent who has been involved in a child’s upbringing as a quasi-spouse, and therefore entitled to parental rights and bound by parental obligations.

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  63. the absurdity becomes crystal clear once you realize that feminism is not about equality.
    it’s about power.

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  64. In a few hundred years bio-daddy’s genes will probably still be around and beta-daddy’s won’t.

    None of us have unique genes. Our genomes are made up of some tens of thousands of loci each occupied by a particular allele. We inherit all of our alleles from our parents who in turn are inheritors of alleles from their parents. After ten generations, no reproductive decision will have affected anything but the allele distribution of one’s gene pool in a minuscule way.

    Paternity fraud is a serious matter, however. It’s a violation of trust of the gravest kind. With rare exceptions, people want their children to be their own flesh and blood. Our genes are a major part of who we are.

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  65. I find your idea of compulsory paternity testing repugnant as it assumes that the woman has cheated on her husband/partner. Where there is suspicion then sure, ask for the test but I tell you what, if my husband dared to ask me for a test I would have the test but when the results came back (with him as the father as he is the only man I have ever been with sexually) I would leave his sorry backside.

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  66. on May 12, 2009 at 2:16 pm Kick a Bitch

    No doubt… can a brotha get an Amen?!?!?!

    Like


  67. That was a painful, infuriating post to read.

    God…….fucking whores

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  68. on August 11, 2009 at 12:27 pm Martian Bachelor

    Two words: chastity belts!

    I’ve seen about this exact same debate before and can say some, women in particular, will never get it because they simply lack the evolved module men have which relates to paternity uncertainty concerns, and how crucial it is to a male’s willingness to invest in, and devote his limited time and resources to, a given child.

    I see evidence for this all the time in forums on singles sites: lots if not most women can’t fathom why men might have a problem dating women with (other men’s) kids; often they resort to likening it to racism or some other inherently bad/ignorant discriminatory practice or pathological psychological “issue”. You’ll even see women who are currently pregnant (or have a very young infant) seemingly regarding men as merely replaceable relationship objects, the last one just happened to have left her with a baby. A clear majority actually think being a new mother, or a good mother, makes them more attractive to men, that the love they have for their child somehow makes them more valuable to some anonymous man. That’s the level of dysfunction going on out there in women who have been improperly socialized, or, rather, hardly socialized at all. It’s all about them.

    Whereas previously a man declared his willingness to support a woman and her children to the best of his ability by marrying her, because he could be sure society supported his right to be almost 100% sure the kids were his, and to be there in the first place for the duration, as well as the importance of this to him, today all it takes in the legal sense is for him to be willing to have sex with her — like that’s some great accomplishment (oh, wait, actually it is now, judging from the number of women who can’t even find a decent date). The whole sex/love/commitment thing has been turned into a big game of “Gotchya!!” perpetrated by women against men. Not inevitably, but in enough instances to be of serious concern to men.

    From the standpoint of evolutionary psychology, the rape analogy is entirely appropriate (if unavoidably not precise) because both rape and cuckolding are about subverting the reproductive choice of the other person.

    One might naively think that “reproductive choice” is such a hallowed concept that people would easily get this, but as it applies only for women in today’s world it’s easy to see why they don’t. Such a one-sided right translates directly into “Girls can do ANYTHING!” (The Barbie Mantra), which implies what men may or may not want is entirely irrelevant, their designated role is simply to be “supportive” of the woman. Because, after all, she is a mother, or potentially one. This is such a Big Deal because the Feminine Mystique has been replaced by the Motherhood Mystique. All this might be more tenable if there was a corresponding Fatherhood Mystique, but there isn’t, and most certainly not in either the legal or the societal sense.

    Adopting the 60s radical’s tactic of fighting absurdity with absurdity seems to me to be the way to go. “Choice For Men” (C4M) attempts to appeal to people’s sense of justice, which is plausibly lacking in 80+% of the population; thus it will never catch on in a big way, which is not the same as saying it’s not right or important. What MRAs should do instead is create what “progressives” like to call a “teachable moment” (whether it’s a “learnable” one or not is another matter) by coming up with a spoof campaign to decriminalize rape based on the following reasoning:

    1) The laws derive from A Dark Time when “women were literally men’s property” (Feminist Fairy Tales 101), and are thus embarrassingly archaic and outdated, and obviously only designed to benefit men in the first place by making women out to be weak widdle helpless creatures in need of men’s paternalistic protection.
    2) Sex theft doesn’t deprive the woman of any appreciable amount of her supply of sex — unlike the situation with being robbed of your wallet, even continually over years like being cuckolded is. After a little cleanup and being remonstrated to “just suck it up and move on” she can be right back out there at all the finer nightclubs scamming men for free drinks and dinner dates. The penalties for minor forms of theft such as this should be, well, minor (or non-existent), just like they are for minor forms of fraud.
    3) Plus, with both Depo-Provera and abortion as backstops, there’s zero cause for any rape to result in a child/burden for the woman. So what’s the Big Deal? It’s not like he’s kidnapping her and keeping her locked up in the basement and having his way with her until she produces his child.
    4) The only valid concern left would have to do with STDs, so extra leniency should be shown to rapists who use condoms.

    With the current situation as it relates to cuckoldry as an example, this would be a shining example of equality as it relates to subverting the reproductive choice of another person. If women are allowed (some would say encouraged) to treat men callously in so many situations, why isn’t it fair and just for men to treat women equally callously?

    “…as women shake off their ancient disabilities they will also shake off some of their ancient immunities, and their doings will come to be regarded with a soberer and more exigent scrutiny than now prevails. The extension of the suffrage, I believe, will encourage this awakening; in wresting it from the reluctant male the women of the western world have planted dragons’ teeth, which will presently leap up and gnaw them. Now that women have the political power to obtain their just rights, they will begin to lose their old power to obtain special privileges by sentimental appeals. Men, facing them squarely, will consider them anew, not as romantic political and social invalids, to be coddled and caressed, but as free competitors in a harsh world. When that reconsideration gets under way there will be a general overhauling of the relations between the sexes”
    – H.L. Mencken (1917)

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  69. ”””””””””””””“…as women shake off their ancient disabilities they will also shake off some of their ancient immunities, and their doings will come to be regarded with a soberer and more exigent scrutiny than now prevails. The extension of the suffrage, I believe, will encourage this awakening; in wresting it from the reluctant male the women of the western world have planted dragons’ teeth, which will presently leap up and gnaw them. Now that women have the political power to obtain their just rights, they will begin to lose their old power to obtain special privileges by sentimental appeals. Men, facing them squarely, will consider them anew, not as romantic political and social invalids, to be coddled and caressed, but as free competitors in a harsh world. When that reconsideration gets under way there will be a general overhauling of the relations between the sexes”
    – H.L. Mencken (1917) ””””””””””””””””””””””

    Yea real equality where stupid laws that men deal with begin to apply to womans personal freedoms as well. Better to not infringe opn anyones freedom but pandoras box is open.

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  70. @nullpointer

    “So unless you get raped by a close family/friend/relative, etc it won’t really be the same thing.”

    FYI you just made the case that PD is more like female rape than not as the the vast majority of rapes are by people the women already know and are often someone they’re close to.

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  71. I can’t believe some of the responses here. Other than being murdered, what else can happen to a man that would be more devastating? He has been robbed of his right to reproduce, his right to the fruits of his labor and the damage lasts a lifetime.

    After 29 years of marriage, I discovered that two of three children my wife had were not mine. Just what the hell do I do to overcome such a hedious thing? It not only destroyed me, it also destroyed the entire family including the one child that was mine and the other two innocent children.

    Some of you people need to get a little reality.

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  72. Why the HELL is everyone talking about “making HER ‘submit’ to a paternity test”?????
    A paternity test involves ONLY the child and the father. She doesn’t have to do anything whatsoever.

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  73. Rape and cuckoldry are nothing like each other. To suggest that rape comes anywhere close to the sheer living hellishness of life as a cuckolded male is to be ridiculously ignorant of the spiritual consequences of both.

    Rape is a crime. A rape victim has the law on her side and a multitude of resources at her disposal to aid in her recovery. Granted, she may never recover, but she still has a better than fair chance if the perpetrator is brought to justice. Justice is a powerful ointment for victims of violent crime.

    Cuckoldry is very different. It is not a crime. To the cuckolded man it is unmerciful, unjust and unfaithful in every moment of its cold, shabby existence. Yet to the cuckold and the law it is entirely justified by the fact of the child. The absolute hopelessness of the cuckold’s situation: the genetic blockage juxtaposed with the child’s need for support; the zero escape provided him by the law and his sense of decency – is utterly, utterly damning.

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  74. that’s why 99% of situations when father kills child or other way round is when he is not the biological one.

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  75. I’m late here as usual, but still wanted to add an idea for those who really do read comments in hopes of useful info. What I plan to do is explain the need for a paternity test not because SHE is untrustworthy, but because the HOSPITAL is untrustworthy.

    Babies get switched around in the maternity ward and they all look so similar as “generic babies”. A paternity test will confirm that we got the right baby back from the hospital. As a stupid man who lacks the intimate mother-baby bond, but as the purported father, I need to know this in order to make sure I’m investing in the correct child.

    So, men, don’t frame the issue as having anything to do with your wife at all. Trusting her is not the issue. The issue is human error at the hospital, so that is where we should focus. Ideally, point to news articles on the web, like:

    http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=baby+switched+in+hospital&aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=634607d52d82d8c1

    Discuss the horrible effects this has on families and how this simple test can make absolutely certain the hospital did not screw up. Hospital, hospital, hospital. Drill it into her head quite a few times, expressing this concern about the possibility of having your baby switched out, before even bringing up the paternity test as a solution.

    If she just can’t see your point of view, I think that’s a major red flag. As for me, I will be bringing it up just before actually getting married, i.e. after I give her the engagement ring so she’ll see the actual marriage about to happen.

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  76. I haven’t read all the comments yet but KassyK’s comment just proves CR’s point.

    KassyK you vile fucking cunt 🙂

    But seriously…talk about validating the point.

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  77. YOU SAID:
    Cuckoldry is, at least from the gene’s point of view, the worst thing that can befall a man outside of getting killed. We are here on this earth to serve one purpose — the propagation of our genes. Everything we do is either designed to push us toward that goal or is a byproduct of that purpose. So when a wife cheats on a husband, bears another man’s child, and then monopolizes the time and resources of her husband toward the raising of that child, she has stolen his reproductive sovereignty just as surely as hers would be stolen if she got pregnant by a male rapist and was forced to raise a child she didn’t want.

    *** this is not true.
    The raped woman still rears her OWN flesh and blood, her OWN genes, her own child. Her evolutionary genetic loss is minor.

    She only lost the chance of picking the father of her choice.

    Without trivializing rape, but rape takes an hour, cuckolding takes 20 years worth of hard work and dedication.

    Except prison rape, which usually is years of sex slavery, a fact women dutifully overlook.

    This is why old habits of marrying the rapist made sense. She had a child with her own genes, she only needed a father to care for the child.

    Please, before you attack, I am not defending rape.

    I am stressing that cuckolding is taking away a life’s work and dedication. Stealing a man’s entire life. It is about the worst crime there is. It is like enslavement and castration at the same time (even a slave might be able to have his OWN offspring)

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  78. on January 2, 2011 at 2:45 am Guest commenter

    Everyone is assuming that the “cuckolded” husband has somehow wasted, say, 20 years of his life. But this isn’t evern close to the truth. First, he has probably formed a relationship with the child that has been rewarding and may continue to be rewarding. The child may be a source of support in his old age. Second, it isn’t as if he has been condemned to solitary confinement and hard labor those 20 years. He presumably has been able to enjoy other aspects of life and even father children of his own.

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  79. on March 29, 2011 at 2:15 am Common Sense.

    This whole issue is quite ridiculous. While I agree that cuckolding is close to murder, I can say that the writer went about the wrong way comparing rape and cuckolding. When you write any type of article like this, you have to make sure you don’t have any gaps in your argument. When you put in the word rape, you have allowed an army of feminists to come in and attack. Be careful with your diction. Secondly, be more direct. Just say that unless a man has a biological offspring with his partner, or they decide to adopt, he must pay for the child and take care of the child. BUT, if the man’s partner cheats, he in no way, shape, or form, should pay support for that child.
    For all the guys, honestly, from me to you, before you get married. Get the prenup (MUST) and tell your partner face to face, if you have a child, I will get a paternity test to make sure it’s my child. If its not, our marriage is over and I will not pay child support or any kind of support towards you. If she accepts, get it in writing, go to a lawyer, get it notarized, show in court, do all the legal nonsense you need to do. So if she ever does cheat (god forbid) you have a legal document that protects you and your income, assests, etc. The United States has turned marriage into all out warfare. Be educated, use the law.

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