Vision Of A Feminist Utopia

I will now present to you a vision of hell as dreamed up in the minds of the man-hating women who litter internet toilets like Feministing and who live in countries like Sweden, once proud nation of Viking warriors. This is what the world would look like if feminists had their way.

Men commit most of the criminal violence against women so it only makes sense according to feminists to tax them for the stress they place upon the social order by their existence. Think tanks (and I use the term loosely) in the USA are seriously considering this measure. Naturally, law-abiding beta males would contribute the most to this anti-man wealth redistribution scheme from men to women. I’m assuming as part of the deal to win passage of this tax real criminals would be let out of prison to ravish the feminists and impregnate them with their dangerously sexy seed.

  • Thought Crimes

Let’s face it: Hate crime legislation is really a Trojan Horse for thought crime laws. These kinds of laws will never be applied fairly or objectively. They will be targeted against men, particularly straight white men, and the ultimate purpose of such laws will be to break their spirits, just like Big Brother did. The justice system was fine before “hate crimes” when criminals were prosecuted for the hateful acts they committed, and not the truly grievous sin of thinking bad thoughts. By the way, I’m wishing Whoopi Goldberg gets run over by a bus. Lock me up!

Porn, the coming sexbot revolution (and it will be a revolution greater than the advent of the Pill, mark my words), and sweet foreign ass all achieve, directly and indirectly, to chip away at female sexual market power. More sexual choice for men means less mating choice prerogative for women. Feminists loathe the idea of men having freedom of choice in the sexual market.

  • Mandatory Castration for Crimes Against Women

If a man hits a woman during a domestic dispute, it’ll be straight to the snippity snip chair for him. Sounds implausible? Oh, my naive readers, you just lack imagination. Given complete freedom to mold the world in the way they see fit, I predict the majority of self-declared feminists would passively welcome this kind of draconian anti-male society. Sure, the beta males would bitch and moan, but who cares about them?

  • Rape = Death Penalty

Feminists are usually leftwingers who are against capital punishment, but they’ll make an exception for rapists. This includes “date rapes” where the girl and guy were drunk and banged one out on a grimy couch in a frat house and she regretted it the next morning, and he neglected to be responsible for her morning-after feelings before he funneled eight cans of Miller Lite. But don’t worry, feminists will still be against the death penalty for mass murderers as long as their targets are mostly other men.

  • Better Pay

Even though the supposed injustice of “equal pay” is a farce, feminists in a perfect feminist world won’t be happy with anything less than “better pay”. They will justify this as a reparations plan to rectify the pain and suffering women have had to endure at the hands of men for thousands of years. And they will insist that women deserve higher pay for the same work because they juggle career and family.

  • Legalized Polygamy

The soft polygamy that has metastasized throughout Western society since the sexual revolution will be codified in law. The West will slowly return to a primitive state of nature, where 60% of the men got no pussy at all. Eventually, the pendulum will swing back once basic infrastructure begins to crumble as the betas decide their services are no longer appreciated. The masterworks of beta cooperation will be a relic of the past.

  • Ban on DNA Paternity Testing

This is as good as done if countermeasures aren’t taken. There’s a reason feminists are beginning to advocate against paternity testing — the smarter ones among their ranks understand that it shifts the balance of power decidedly in favor of beta males. Feminists want to retain the privilege of cuckolding. It is a power too good to abdicate, because it offers complete freedom from compromise with men to pursue sex and resources in the way they want. Paternity testing will mean an end to fucking alphas on the side and tricking betas into footing the bill. It will mean women will have to be more responsible and forward-thinking, instead of blindly following their vaginas.

  • Sexual Harassment Laws Expanded

If you are an unacceptable male who looks one second too long at a woman you can be tried for sexual harassment. The penalties, of course, will be more severe. If you are an alpha male who can read women’s minds and know which women will welcome your advances, you are free to harass with impunity. The laws are meant to make the job of attracting alpha attention and shaming beta attention more convenient for women.

********

Don’t think for a minute feminists wouldn’t welcome this dystopian femicentric world where betas are utterly emasculated and serve only as goo fodder for women and the alpha males they’d fuck on a rotating basis. I used to think such a world was an impossibity, but Sweden is now requiring that their men sit to pee. It’s no longer in the realm of fantasy.





Comments


  1. You think women will make us carry the babies for 9 months – I read that a guy at some university volunteered in an experiment to do that (he deserves to date a swedish girl who will make him sit down to piss).

    Liked by 1 person


  2. The ban on foreign brides won’t work. I’d have stayed in Japan, or moved to Australia.

    What’s next, a ban on interracial dating? Is it possible to move so far to the left that you end up on the right? I think this man tax would violate the equal rights provision of the Constitution, but all it takes is five wierd Justices and anything goes. Men might want to think long and hard about who might do what to them before they hit that voting booth.

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  3. on October 28, 2008 at 1:19 pm the_alpha_male

    In case you haven’t noticed, the feminism of the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s is dying.

    Liked by 1 person


  4. To the “Ban on Porn, Sexbot Research, and Foreign Brides” category, you can include “a ban on any vas-occlusive contraception device”, e.g. the ones here:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article4788191.ece

    The (real) rationale for it will be that men can’t be allowed to control their fertility, otherwise it would become harder for women to “accidentally” get pregnant.

    And, speaking of foreign wives, you could also include IMBRA as a pefect example of a creeping ban on foreign wives.

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  5. on October 28, 2008 at 1:39 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    Mark D. said “The ban on foreign brides won’t work.”

    It already has Mark. Please read the link below of an op/ed from 2006, “Mail Order Bride Law Brands U.S. Men Abusers.”

    It’s about the International Marriage Broker Regulation Act of 2005. This limits who men can date and is the first time ever, the gov’t has successfully “banned” US citizens from contacting other citizens from abroad. Think about that, Mark. Think we’re more “free” than Cuba? Of course, only men are banned:

    http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2006/0111.html

    PS — Even if you all think only losers and nerds want “mail order brides,” (as do I, to a degree), there is a civil rights issue here as well as an issue of branding people — specifically men– guilty on assumption. This would have been unthinkable years ago, but thanks to Joe Biden and his (unconstitutional) Violence Against Women Act, this is now law.

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  6. on October 28, 2008 at 1:50 pm Give Me a Break

    You forgot to mention the legalization of rape and domestic violence if directed against men.

    After all, according to these “men’s rights” nuts, alphas will get sexually harrassed and raped by hordes of old fatties who then sue them for child support.

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  7. PA makes a good point about feminsim just being a tool of Marxism. Just look at how feminsim ignores Islam for the purposes of furthering the Marxist agenda.

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  8. I think this man tax would violate the equal rights provision of the Constitution, but all it takes is five wierd Justices and anything goes. Men might want to think long and hard about who might do what to them before they hit that voting booth.

    MarkD, indeed. Its possible that we may have at least three retirements from the Supreme Court in the next few years. Scalia, Stevens, and Ginsburg. It would be unfortunate to see Scalia go but anyone think Obama will appoint conservatives to the bench to replace him? I don’t think so.

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  9. Boring.

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  10. Oh, you mentioned Sweden? PC world record: Swedes want to legalize intentionally spreading HIV.

    If that makes no sense, you have to first realize that Europe has been receiving lots of African prostitutes lately, so now it’s double-super-victim-black-women infecting white men. Next step, they’ll probably put the men in jail. Oh, no, wait, they’re already doing that.

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  11. Somewhat off topic, but since this blog leans conservative at times and election day is approaching, here are endorsements from various contributors to The American Conservative.

    http://www.amconmag.com/article/2008/nov/03/00006/

    Like


  12. on October 28, 2008 at 11:12 am Days of Broken Arrows

    Nice write up. As someone who looks into this stuff regularly. I think you’re on the mark here.

    However, your arguments would have been stronger had you provided links to some of the ideas you present. Some of your readers may think these concepts are paranoid fantasies. They’re not.

    To those who want evidence of what he is saying, go to Glenn Sacks (www.glennsacks.com) — a blogger who deals with issues like paternity fraud, the “Female seneencing discount” (women do way less time for the same crimes), parental alienation, bogus sexual harrassment and rape claims (check his stats on this) and the way the Western educational system marginalizes boys.

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  13. this sort of stuff just serves as proof that contemporary liberals are anything but. the idea that people should be held collectively responsible is fundamentally at odds with the Enlightenment principles upon which modern democracy is founded.

    Hayek was right. Progressivism is, at its heart, a return to feudalism; where power is taken from individuals and put in the hands of the ‘representatives’ of whatever constituency to which they happen to belong.

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  14. Even if you all think only losers and nerds want “mail order brides,” (as do I, to a degree), there is a civil rights issue here as well as an issue of branding people — specifically men– guilty on assumption.

    What I hate about these laws is that feminists rally for them under the guise of caring about these women. It’s such a sham. That foreign bride law is the female dating version of protectionism: these chicks don’t want the competition from foreign chicks. With competition from foreign chicks, American feminists (at least the hetero ones) will be forced to stay n shape, be less shrill, learn to cook a meal and not be such ballbusters.

    Someone here made a brilliant point…I think it was Joe T…that it isn’t that American chicks want to stop foreigners from taking the best men. Like Days says, most of the people who take advantage of foreign brides are probably betas and nerds. It’s that they don’t want their fallback option, beta providers, taken out of the dating pool. They want to fuck around with alpha males and work on grad school and their career or do whatever until they get tired of it all, and have beta providers waiting in the wings ready to wife them up. If those socially awkward but financially comfortable betas are now taken out of the dating pool, there will be no one left to marry them when they are past their prime and either can’t attract or are tired of fucking alphas who won’t commit. American women don’t care about the safety of these foreign brides, they just don’t want anyone taking their fallback men.

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  15. One thing above I’m unsure of. Why does he think a soft polygamy is going to turn off betas from contributing?

    Polygamous societies are worse for beta males because in societies where men can have multiple women, high status alphas tend to hog the women.

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  16. Re thought crimes/sexual harassment:

    Something called Dawn Hill, a state representative in Maine, is already on the case.

    Hmm, note the name of the police officer quoted in the story.

    http://swfreedomlover.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/maine-is-getting-weirdor-maybe-it-always-was/

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  17. i would have to agree with the_alpha_male. i don’t honestly think any of this crap is going to come true.

    btw, in germany they call men who sit to pee “sitzpinkler”. which is hilarious AND sad.

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  18. Dudes, y’all sound like you’re living in 1972.

    Like


  19. Good list. With the caveat, that Feminism is boutique politics, froth on the surface of a comfortable and decadent society.

    If Hillary Clinton’s unceremonial shoving aside for The One is any indication — along with an airbrushing out of Geraldine Ferraro for thinkcrime, and now a most un-feminist media savaging of Sarah Palin — Feminism bows before Racial Marxism. And with the demographic trends, we’re more likely to see politicians like Hugo Chavez than Hillary Clinton in future election cycles. Keep in mind that Chavez is basically Obama without the nice manners.

    Feminism is Cultural Marxism. It’s a useful tool for destroying traditional society, but like any tool, it’s no more than a means to an end, not an end in itself. It’s tossed aside when no longer needed. Those who study the history of Communism, recall that once Stalin consolidated his power, he purged the Cultural Marxists and ran the USSR as a Socialist cult of personality.

    None of this is to take away from his excellent outline above. The United States is a long way from a Leftist victory, and as such, it’s a mistake to imagine that Feminism is a spent force. As long as there are still millions of “beta” men with traditional beliefs and traditional families, they will be targets for the left wing Alphas who use Feminism as one of many hammers to smash them and their American way of life with.

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  20. @21 & 22

    you’re both absolutely wrong. firstly, none of us, ok most of us, aren’t trying to channel the spirit of archie bunker. it’s about the difference between power politics and real equality.

    and for those who think these things can’t happen, think again. we’re looking at least two years of a democratic congress, with perhaps a filibuster-proof majority in the senate, and four years of a democratic president, who will likely have a couple-few supreme court appointments, and even more appointments to lower courts.

    read this op-ed: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122455083611552585.html?. think about the policy implications of an idea like comparable worth

    http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/ComparableWorth.html

    or ratifying the CEDAW

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Elimination_of_All_Forms_of_Discrimination_Against_Women

    or universal pre-school… or laws against ‘hate’ speech… the list goes on.

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  21. David Alexander –

    As to the “mistress” – a married alpha male probably does not have mistresses that are too long term. The institution of “mistresses” isnt what it was 50 years ago in America. Every woman believes that she is entitled to some Prince Charming. IF she does get mesmerized by a married Alpha, it’s usually for a short term. Then she bristles at fact, usually. Although this may be changing – see popularity of sugardaddies.com

    As to the guy – if he is alpha enough, he probably gets bored with the same piece of ass.

    Its unclear that 9s are going to be someone’s long term mistress for too long. Possibly a short term thrill fling (say a 24 year old 9 with a married 38 yr old Alpha). I imagine the 9 wants to and eventually can nab her own Alpha husband.

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  22. Hate crime is certainly a vehicle for thought crime. And polygamy IS the natural result of legalized gay marriage I have yet to hear a cogent defense of why one modification to the definition is more reasonable than another. I’m kind of lost on the Man Tax issue. If the basis for the tax is the comparative ‘burden’ by one class of people, what is to prevent the tax on other classes? And I don’t think even Ginsberg can shove the 14th Amendment THAT far up her ass.

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  23. And polygamy IS the natural result of legalized gay marriage

    dude, i’m down with multiple wives… bitches better have high-paying jobs though. i mean seriously, wtf would i work if i had multiple wives? feed them dick would be a full-time job anyway.

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  24. I’d imagine that even without sex, most men would keep working in exchange for money as the other things that men like aren’t magically free. Hell, by your logic, my sexless status for nearly three years should have forced me into perpetual unemployment.

    My interest in employment has dropped steadily with the ease of picking up. Why bother? A middle class income is mainly needed for a family and I don’t really want one.

    The really angry men are those who keep working, respecting women and doing everything that society tells them to do and then find out that such people get nothing in life.

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  25. “Rape = Death Penalty”

    Rapists should get the Death Penalty.

    And I am not a huge advocate of the death penalty.

    – MPM

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  26. @30 – Some people want money for more than to raise a family. Just watch a rap video.

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  27. Why bother? A middle class income is mainly needed for a family and I don’t really want one.

    A middle class income without a family can ensure a very comfortable lifestyle. If I was making say, $60K, I’d buy a condo or help my parents pay their mortgage, buy a nice car, go on frequent vacations, spoil my niece and nephews, buy lots of photography equipment, and support my favourite charities. If you can’t think of anything that you can do with a middle class income as a single male, then one could argue that you’re simply sex-obsessed with no other interests in life.

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  28. @30 – Some people want money for more than to raise a family. Just watch a rap video.

    Yeah, but the end goal is still to pick up the women, as shown by the plethora of hoes in the video. That’s jaakkeli’s point, once you can pick up women without needing all that dough, AND if you don’t want to raise a family, it becomes less important.

    Also, don’t sleep on rappers and the desire to raise families. All those guys tend to have multiple (usually illegitimate) kids. They just don’t parade them around because it’s not a very sexy image.

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  29. Am I reading all this stuff right?

    Where do you guys live? (you don’t really need to answer)

    Not to be obnoxious or anything, but how could one live on 60k or less?

    I was talking to my friend the other day, and we were talking about how making $250,000 a year where we live is “just scrapping by”.

    Serious.

    I do understand that making 250k in some places is a lot of dough. (I just never hang out in those spots).

    But I don’t understand how people do it on anything less.

    (One of the reasons I give to the poor.)

    – MPM

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  30. Agreed with the G. DA I have no idea what you’re talking about; you can’t even buy a condo in the ghetto on 60K a year in DC. I thought you were a New Yorker. And a good vacation that isn’t keeping it budget will run you a couple K. But I have had some *great* budget vacations. But that’s mostly due to me doing things you wouldn’t ever do.

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  31. “If you are an alpha male who can read women’s minds and know which women will welcome your advances, you are free to harass with impunity.”

    What about ugly women? In this scenario, alphas will be more than ever required to bang them. And there should some penalty for failure. Unless alphas are protected in court by their harems who testify in favor of them or if some portion of the “man tax” is diverted towards fundings free Viagra pills for “deserving (=ugly) women” so that alphas con bang them without rosk of failing

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  32. on October 28, 2008 at 3:00 pm Peregrine John

    God, if only H were making this up…

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  33. on October 28, 2008 at 7:03 pm Give Me a Break

    you can’t even buy a condo in the ghetto on 60K a year in DC.
    Exaggeration alert!

    Even the median income in DC is less than that: http://www.city-data.com/city/Washington-District-of-Columbia.html

    Most parts of the city (not only the SE ghetto) are doable with less:
    http://www.21csf.org/csf-home/DocUploads/DataShop/DS_30.pdf

    And even Montgomery County – the eighth highest household median income in the United States – comes down to a median income for males of $66,415 versus $52,134 for females. The per capita income for the county was $43,073:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_County,_Maryland

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  34. I’m not with H on all his views – but the above is largely on the money –

    H is doing a service for the Men of America with this blog because his utter fearlessness in speaking the no B.S. truth is a scarce commodity.

    Men are simply not hearing his “Correct View on Matters Masculine” in many other places at all, outside here.

    One thing above I’m unsure of. Why does he think a soft polygamy is going to turn off betas from contributing?

    Fear the weak beta masses only if the weak masses can actually retaliate.

    Our institition of monogamy – and I dont want to rehash this because it was already discussed prior – is a Christian one. Other forms of organization are possible. Most recently, the largely “monogamous” America with a “look the other way,” “alpha married Men will have mistresses” culture of the patriarchal 1950’s.

    The French still believe every man worth his salt has 3 women in his life: a wife, mistress, and mother.

    Social unrest doesn’t occur if Alpha norms are accepted as the way things are. There are always isolated examples of societal unrest. But if a society reflects back to its citizens – in its laws, in its social norms – that “this is the way things are, the alphas get the women,” then the danger is much less.

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  35. i’m curious. where are all the woman who usually comment? i want to hear their perspective on some of these things; especially on the equal pay issue. it’s always interesting to hear what non-radical women think of some of these so-called feminist ideas.

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  36. Higher Power —

    You can’t have widespread polygamy (do the math) without lots of men with no wives/girlfriends. If they have no wives, girlfriends, they become slackers or simply don’t bother. The reason they do stuff like build bridges or things of that nature is to get and keep women. In polygamous nations, men do the least amount of work possible.

    They’ll become merely video game playing slackers, doing nothing. Alpha norms = West Africa or Saudi Arabia. Western Monogamy is the only proven social model that produces a wealth-producing civilization.

    Social unrest in Muslim countries is mostly due to polygamy, and the inability of men to find wives. It produces a “winner take all” society, where men kill each other (like Osama bin Laden did his mentor, Azzam, and Azzam’s sons, in Pakistan, for control of AQ). The harem DEMANDS violence to prevent another Big Man from simply seizing it. It creates a tribal, violent society that can get little done and has not much cooperation.

    Gee, it’s not as if I’ve ever blogged on this subject. [Alphas ALWAYS face retaliation by Betas. Even the weakest beta can kill an Alpha, with a weapon. Look at Billy the Kid, Hicock, Jessie James, John Wesley Hardin — or Pitcairn Island where Fletcher Christian was murdered along with all the other men but one as they fought over the women.]

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  37. outside of manhattan, or NYC in general depending on your lifestyle, 60K isnt terrible. think of a teacher’s salary – in the best states its not even at 60K. you wont have a luxurious life but its perfectly comfortable. a quarter million a year is a lot of money, though maybe not after hyperinflation sets in.

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  38. That leaves Straight White guys and singling them out is too politically dangerous.

    Not really, thanks to white beta liberals. So many of the laws on the books now like hate crime laws are basically made to target straight white guys. First, with gays, immigrants, and people of color having the numbers they have and reproducing at a faster rate, whites are having a smaller voice. Within the ranks of whites, you have feminists and big city women working to politically castrate straight white men all the time. Throw in the self-hating straight white liberal men and the betas who just go along with whatever feminists demand in hopes of a pity fuck and the fact that mocking straight white men is the only group left that is politically correct to mock and I think targeting straight white guys is the most politically safe to mock.

    Ask Barack Obama. His book is incredibly anti-white male and white people are some of the biggest supporters of the guy.

    Thought Crimes: Yes this is already happening. However, the backlash is that it can be applied to Blacks and Hispanics, by ambitious young White attorneys in mostly White voting districts, so expect it to vanish from both Europe and America because that sword has two edges.

    Won’t happen. Thanks to political correctness hate crimes are not a two-edged sword. Black-on-white crimes against racism will always be swept under the carpet and not called hate crime. And some of the biggest supporters of this double standard are white people.

    I think you are overestimating the will of White westerners to stand up for themselves politically. Liberalism has basically emotionally and intellectually castrated them.

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  39. @ T – Didn’t mean to sound like I was hating on rappers. But let’s take an example. I’m seeing Jay tonight at Izod. When he talks about that yacht with the triple deck, it’s not because when he’s on the yacht he can pull bitches. The rose, the yachts, the trips, the clothes… we don’t do this shit to get girls, we do it because it’s fun and feels good.

    Quality denim feels nicer than shitty denim, and linen in 80 degrees feels better than both. Good wine tastes better. Fast cars are more fun to drive. Gambling at the lounge in The Cove is more relaxing than with 1000 people in Atlantic City.

    Maybe it seems different from the other side, but once you’ve got money, you understand that it’s about a lot more than the women.

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  40. “outside of manhattan, or NYC in general depending on your lifestyle, 60K isnt terrible”

    Key phrase I guess is “depending on your lifestyle”.

    After taxes 60k is about $2500 a month. Hell, I have suits that cost more than that (I am not trying to brag, just putting things in perspective).

    60k is a few days work (case and heist a drug dealer, hit a commodity trade etc.). Or a weekend at the tables at Wynn (up or down).

    Try surviving in Miami Beach, coastal Southern California, or really any big city around the globe on 60k a year and you will go bust quicker than hitting on 20.

    – MPM

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  41. I think you are overestimating the will of White westerners to stand up for themselves politically.

    An empty stomach, a dying kid, and feeling of having nothing left to lose changes the equation.

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  42. “Maybe it seems different from the other side, but once you’ve got money, you understand that it’s about a lot more than the women.”

    Yes it is. But you have to understand that most never married men in America are not in a situation where working harder will yield significant benefits. The masses never will be. If you’re in a career/job where harder work will bring you fantastic trips and fast sports cars and even yachts, go for it! I would. For most men in most careers across most of the country, especially with our tax system, that’s just not the case. Even with a college education it’s just not the case. Trust me on that one. I thought I made a great career pick and got a great degree. And there’s just not much incentive for me to work harder than I do. I don’t have a bad life by any means, but I’m not going to bust my balls for the little improvement I might see after taxes. Not unless I had to.

    Married men have to. That contributes to society. Take that pressure away and you lose that economic productivity. For the masses, it’s that simple.

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  43. The Key is you need to figure out how to make CASH without hard work (I know it sounds simple, but my Godfather always told me that…sometimes its smarter to simplify things).

    That way you have time for fun, travel, fly models, smoking and boozing.

    You don’t mind making over 250k and being taxed heavier.

    You just make more money.

    – MPM

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  44. The way I see most people who climb up using the extra money is that they keep buying fancier cell phones, bigger houses, more expensive cars, fancier clothes… if their expensive clothes keep them warmer, it’s just a marginal difference. What they’re really paying for is the extra status and I’m not going to work hard for status.

    Of course, if I could be really wealthy, I mean George Soros levels, it would be different, since then I could buy Iceland or something instead of just getting the same stuff in fancier versions.

    Travel is the only place where being broke really hurts. More money would open up stranger destinations, it wouldn’t just be a minor improvement over what I’m doing now.

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  45. @ T – Didn’t mean to sound like I was hating on rappers. But let’s take an example. I’m seeing Jay tonight at Izod. When he talks about that yacht with the triple deck, it’s not because when he’s on the yacht he can pull bitches. The rose, the yachts, the trips, the clothes… we don’t do this shit to get girls, we do it because it’s fun and feels good.

    Quality denim feels nicer than shitty denim, and linen in 80 degrees feels better than both. Good wine tastes better. Fast cars are more fun to drive. Gambling at the lounge in The Cove is more relaxing than with 1000 people in Atlantic City.

    Maybe it seems different from the other side, but once you’ve got money, you understand that it’s about a lot more than the women.

    Mike, I didn’t say you were hating on rappers. I just think you are giving them too much credit. I think most of what men do when it comes to being competitive is to get women, whether it’s buying the nicest shit to running for US President. Quality denim feels better than shitty denim, but if you could get primo sex with zero effort or status from girls like Scarlett Johannsen and Beyonce, you probably would just skip denim altogether and just wear sweatpants with holes in them.

    Say what you want about Jay-Z, but he always makes sure you know he can get hot chicks. All the rappers do. He brags about landing the “hottest girl in the game” in his rap songs to this day. Listen to people gossip about him and you’ll notice people envy/hate on him more for landing Beyonce than having a yacht.

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  46. Maybe it seems different from the other side, but once you’ve got money, you understand that it’s about a lot more than the women.

    Tell that to Trump, Clinton, Aristotle Onassis, Henry VIII and the tons of other superrich, highly competitive alpha guys that could never keep it in their pants when it came to accumulating women.

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  47. @46 – That is a good point, although I think anyone can become an entrepreneur in this country and get truly wealthy, but you’re right that if you’re relying on someone else for your salary, there aren’t many times where that makes a difference.

    @48 – I think for a lot of people that’s not the case. If anything, it’s usually the women who care more about status. Having a pool at your house is more than a little better. Being able to host your entire extended family for a BBQ and pool in the summer is tangible. With clothes, it’s usually about texture. The best stuff is the most understated. The most expensive luggage or shoes aren’t the ones with the brand name plastered all over it.

    I’ll agree with travel though. That’s definitely the best way to spend money and where it makes a real difference.

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  48. @ T – I don’t disagree that women are one of the best things money can buy. Just saying it’s not the only thing.

    I’m sure Jay is proud of B, but if he’s hanging out by the pool at home, with just a couple friends and no chicks, do you think he busts out the shitty champagne since there are no girls around to see him drink the nice stuff.

    I had a free night last night to just relax, and I didn’t open the cheaper than usual bottle of wine. Shit, I didn’t even go with the usual… I went with the more expensive bottle because I know I’ll appreciate it more than my girl would.

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  49. Although, to play devil’s advocate, I will say that while it seems real attractive sometimes to say fuck it for a couple years and go back to my college lifestyle of being a bum and just relaxing and doing nothing all day, the reason I would never do it is because it’d be selfish and I want my family to have the nice life.

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  50. DA I have no idea what you’re talking about; you can’t even buy a condo in the ghetto on 60K a year in DC

    The theory is that I probably buy a cheaper suburban or outer boros condo. As an example, my grandmother’s two bedroom condo in Eastern Queens was purchased for $120,000, and that was back during the peak of the housing boom. There’s no way that a $60K salary would purchase a Manhattan condo, but it’s certainly enough to pay for a cheaper condo or co-op in a safe, but boring area of Queens.

    And a good vacation that isn’t keeping it budget will run you a couple K

    One could argue that we have different standards for a good vacation. A $100/night hotel in the ‘burbs near transit is good enough for me, and most of my planned vacations are basically de facto urban exploration of “whiter” people neighbourhoods and riding the local rail system. I’m not big on tropical resorts or third world nature exploration because my aunt owns her own home in the countryside of Haiti which gives nearly the same feel. Mind you, more money can obviously change aspects of the trips, such as nicer hotels with more luxurious rental cars, longer stays, and first class flights instead of coach.

    Remember, I’m the weirdo who wants to spend Spring Break in cold ass Montreal and Toronto instead of in Cancun or South Beach.

    people of color having the numbers they have and reproducing at a faster rate, whites are having a smaller voice

    T, while I’m well aware of your conservative politique, I’m rather surprised that you openly stated that whites have a smaller voice due to various demographic changes. I’m not saying that it’s wrong, but I’m surprised that even a black conservative would say that…

    What they’re really paying for is the extra status and I’m not going to work hard for status.

    I’ll bite, why are you somehow immune to being a status-whore?

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  51. Mike, I do agree that you should care about yourself more than women. I just think most guys don’t.

    Ask the average guy what he’d rather have: be middle class but swimming in hot chicks until the day he dies, or be filthy rich but marry and be monogamous to a 5. No side chicks, nothing, just sex with the same 5 until you die.

    Once again, the Jay-Z example. A lot of women liked him because he was rich and had a lot of swagger. But that was nothing compared to how his stock rose as a sex symbol after getting social proofing from Beyonce.

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  52. “i’m curious. where are all the woman who usually comment?” – Lance

    I dont usually comment but the absence of female input is interesting here.

    Personally I think this post is just ridiculous, some kind of vagina dentata type phobia not really worth serious consideration.

    boohoo the poor white man is being targeted by his own legal systems, deal with it, bitches!

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  53. T, while I’m well aware of your conservative politique, I’m rather surprised that you openly stated that whites have a smaller voice due to various demographic changes. I’m not saying that it’s wrong, but I’m surprised that even a black conservative would say that…

    Why are you surprised? I don’t understand…

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  54. Why are you surprised? I don’t understand…

    It’s hard to explain, but one would never suspect that a black conservative would identify with positions that are sometimes espoused by race realists or white nationalists. I guess one suspect that black conservatives would be “pro-black”, but just in a different way from their black liberal counterparts.

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  55. What I hate about these laws is that feminists rally for them under the guise of caring about these women. It’s such a sham. That foreign bride law is the female dating version of protectionism: these chicks don’t want the competition from foreign chicks.

    To put it more bluntly, just imagine a world run by a bunch of cockblockers — that’s an ambitious woman’s default setting, as she turns off all guys she meets.

    Power feminists shame, badger, and pressure the normal women into going against their own interests. If normal women were rational, they wouldn’t be so easily duped. But if they’re as gullible and susceptible to peer pressure as they are, power feminists can exploit them.

    Women have better memories, on average, so I could see them serving as advisors or providing a reality check to decision-makers and negotiators, if they learned all the relevant facts (rather than absorbing the Da Vinci Code, Deepak Chopra, etc.). Though if they had high enough T and were not wackos, then they could make decisions too.

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  56. 30 jaakkeli:

    The really angry men are those who keep working, respecting women and doing everything that society tells them to do and then find out that such people get nothing in life.

    Agree. I don’t think I’m “really angry” about it, but I *am* at least kind of pissed to have discovered the hard way that so much of the stuff I’ve worked for (money, education, career, etc.) has little to no value in attracting women. Certainly not young, attractive women.

    I still think that stuff has value aside from that, but I do get the sense that society sold me a bill of goods, and I’m far from happy with society for having done so.

    I really do try to keep a positive attitude about it. Hey, it could be worse: I could be married!

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  57. Like Ive said before (on this blog), feminism’s main “outcome” will be many lonely, single, post-menapause females who were born from 1960-1980 in the next decade or two. After that, look for it to really start to wither away, as young women will see what it leads to: lonely childless lives, divorces, resentment, an old age bereft of grandchildren.

    Feminism was started by Marxists, but I wont bore you with all the links that attest to that. It was a cultural front in the Cold War, grown out of the Frankfurt School, that attained a life of its own. You can’t put such things back in the box.

    One other “thing” that will destroy feminism in the coming decades is demography. Young hispanic and black women will not be forgoeing their wombs, and as white females become more and more outnumbered socially in the clubs, cafe’s, resturaunts, and schools, they will inherently know the social risk that comes with being a man-hating feminazi. It leads to your obsolescence as a people, and a severe lessening in your own group’s social power. Paris Hilton could not play “alpha female” in a black high school, as nobody would give a tinker’s damn about her. There is strength in numbers, and once you lose them, no matter how alpha you may be personally, you are marginalized.

    The ban on DNA paternity testing, if brought to fruition, would be a profound legal setback for honest justice. No man should be made to pay for some other man’s child. If anything, this should be expanded and not contracted. Constititionally its legal sophistry of the highest order to think that something that could prove paternity and assign child support payments to the real father could ever be infringed upon, no matter what is financially best for the woman.

    I have met very few “feminist” women in the past several years personally. There were a lot more of them back in the eighties. CH probably comes in contact with a ton of them, but that is like seeing a lot of Orcs in Mordor. Thats where they are. Out here in flyover country, they are a peculiar exotic species that others simply avoid and ignore, because they are pathetic.

    The left will have a chance to prove its not loony-ass nuts in the Obama administration. If they fuck it up by pushing for anything on this list and Obama signs some of it into law, the electoral backlash in 2012 would be pretty severe. Im not all that worried about it in the United States.

    Sweeden will be a Muslim country in 120 years time if immigration from the Middle East isn’t stopped in that nation. I dont think the Mullahs would be all that fond of feminist, and they’d be one of the first groups up against the wall. Feminism will die there at that time.

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  58. 51 Michael:

    That is a good point, although I think anyone can become an entrepreneur in this country and get truly wealthy

    I thought this was where pretty lies perished…

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  59. It’s hard to explain, but one would never suspect that a black conservative would identify with positions that are sometimes espoused by race realists or white nationalists. I guess one suspect that black conservatives would be “pro-black”, but just in a different way from their black liberal counterparts.

    How is my post “anti-black?” The influence of straight white men is shrinking. That’s just a fact. Not pointing it out as a good or bad thing, just saying that white straight men are not as dangerous to politically cross as before. And it’s not just because of demographics, but also because progressive liberalism and white guilt have undermined their will to fight for things. The only whites willing to fight for themselves are proles. They have the will to win but not the means. The elites have the means to win, but not the will.

    None of this is particurly anti-black or pro-white or pro-black or anti-white, it’s just reality.

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  60. 61 zorgon:

    I still think that stuff has value aside from that, but I do get the sense that society sold me a bill of goods, and I’m far from happy with society for having done so.

    I’m curious: since “society” is an abstraction, and “society” does not speak with one voice, could you briefly outline just who in actual practice sold you a bill of goods?

    Just asking.

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  61. @62 – Given the long list of dirt poor people who became wealthy through their own intelligence and hard work, I’d say that’s not a pretty lie. You’re right in a way. If you’re lazy and dumb, you probably can’t get very far. But race, class, or sex isn’t an insurmountable barrier… just an obstacle.

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  62. I have so much white guilt 😦

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  63. Eventually, the pendulum will swing back once basic infrastructure begins to crumble as the betas decide their services are no longer appreciated. The masterworks of beta cooperation will be a relic of the past.

    I don’t know. I’d imagine that even without sex, most men would keep working in exchange for money as the other things that men like aren’t magically free. Hell, by your logic, my sexless status for nearly three years should have forced me into perpetual unemployment. Instead, I’d like more money to provide a comfortable lifestyle for myself, and I’d imagine many men would agree with me. Besides, maintaining a girlfriend isn’t cheap, and the cost of eating out with the non-date girlfriend every two weeks at some chain restaurant is frigging bothersome on my current pay levels.

    decadent society

    PA, IMHO, a decadent society is a superior society…

    alpha married Men will have mistresses

    If alpha males are married with mistresses, doesn’t that mean that the women are hoarded by the alpha males? At least when he acts like a non-committed player, he just pumps and dumps the girl, and I get to loot the emotional benefits without any of the messier portions of a real relationship. A married alpha male in contrast locks up his wife and long-term mistresses, and knowing most alpha males, the women who are locked up aren’t 4 and 5s, but 8s and 9s. In other words, regardless of the period, most beta males will never luck out with hot girls without “game” or faux-alpha/player techniques or financial wealth.

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  64. David, I don’t understand your issue with T at all. If group X is becoming a lesser proportion of the nation, their influence will wane. That should be blindingly obvious and not indicative of anyone’s sympathies or antipathies. If I point out that Russians are becoming a minority in Russia with a simlar timetable, does that make me sympathetic to Russian nationalists? (I’d be giggling in delight if we weren’t similarily screwed.)

    And I don’t know why I’m not so interested in status, I just am not. Genes, maybe. My family is mostly made up of very talented slackers. Another thing is that the people who I see obsessing with status most are people who rose from “low” origins and want to emphasize their newly non-blue-collar status. My paternal line has been on the steady way down since great-grandfather, so no reason for that…

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  65. 35 The G Manifesto:

    Not to be obnoxious or anything, but how could one live on 60k or less?

    I don’t know what your lifestyle looks like, but here in Austin, TX, as a single guy with no family/kids to support, you could live a very comfortable if not extravagant lifestyle on $30K/year after income and payroll taxes.

    That’s $2500/month. Here are some roughly accurate numbers for me:

    – $800/month rent
    – $100/month utilities+phone+internet
    – $150/month insurance (catastrophic health insurance, renter’s insurance, car insurance)
    – $200/month groceries plus other household day-to-day essentials
    – $100/month gas plus all other car expenses (insurance was covered above, but maintenance, state registration fees, etc.)

    That still leaves $1150/month for discretionary spending on anything else you want and for your retirement savings. And that’s as a self-employed guy who has to buy his own health insurance (I pay $45/month).

    And at this income level you won’t be paying much in taxes. Payroll tax is less than 8% for your half. No state income tax here. Federal income taxes are minimal if your income is that low (a quick calculation showed a single filer with income of $40K with 1 exemption and taking the standard deduction pays $4260 in income tax? less if you contribute to a 401k, qualify for ANY tax credits, etc.). Maybe a percent or two for unemployment insurance tax and other junk.

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  66. 64 tupacchopra

    I’m curious: since “society” is an abstraction, and “society” does not speak with one voice, could you briefly outline just who in actual practice sold you a bill of goods?

    I don’t know what zorgon’s experience is, but I was raised in the church and it was drilled into me that Nice Guys were valued and whoever married me would be very lucky. Now, I’m arrogant enough to think that the last part of the previous sentence is true, but in the meantime I was never taught anything useful about how to sell myself so a worthwhile girl would want to marry me in the first place, and it was implied that it was sinful, or at least a path of lesser faith, to “sell myself” instead of just “being myself.”

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  67. zorgon, from G Manifesto’s other comments on other blogs, I’ve gathered he’s anti-Texas and anti-flyover and only likes the big destination cities.

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  68. We’re not posting b/c we want to see what bubbles forth to the surface at this type of tantalizing bait being thrown into the river. If you want to see the fish, you have to be quiet.

    Although to T., more numbers doesn’t necessarily mean an equal weight in terms of influence. Money talks. And a lot of the people popping out the children leading to a changing demographic don’t have a lot of money.

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  69. 64 tupacchopra:

    I’m curious: since “society” is an abstraction, and “society” does not speak with one voice, could you briefly outline just who in actual practice sold you a bill of goods?

    Just asking.

    You got me. I should be more careful about my choice of words.

    I did distinctly lack helpful advice on women, be it from my parents, older brothers, extended family, friends, coworkers, teachers, other adult mentors, etc. That left me to mostly just suck up whatever I absorbed from the media, which was far from helpful.

    I was raised on values of “study hard, work hard, and you will succeed.” Great advice, except that it failed to mention what you will succeed at and what you will *not* succeed at. That advice made me lots of money (and if my business takes off, it will make me a lot more). It did not get me laid, and it probably even made me more enemies than friends.

    I can’t exactly blame my parents (both born in 1947, married in 1969; my dad went straight into his career, my mom got her PhD and then went into her career and had us three kids in 78, 80, 82) for not knowing how the dating world has changed, though.

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  70. I agree with z #25, that in most of America, very few women self-describe as “feminists”. It is regarded as a historical or international (Islamic women, African women) term. I regard the vestigial feminist groups as an arm of the Democratic Party; they’re about being Democrats.

    The only shared concerns I’ve had with feminists, are (1) understanding and defining rape, and (2) FDA approval of Plan B contraception, which was blocked by the Bush administration for may years.

    re: “equal pay” IMHO, most women want more flexibility, both for themselves and for their husbands. Women are willing to sacrifice income for flexibility. I am not fluent to describe which labor laws could be changed to increase flexibility for both genders.

    The other bullet points seem silly.

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  71. And a lot of the people popping out the children leading to a changing demographic don’t have a lot of money.

    But they have votes. Big groups of voting poor people are a valuable political commodity, and have been since Tammany Hall and the the first waves of Irish in NY. Look at how both candidates bend over backward to pander to the hispanic immigrants right now. Many people don’t know this, but there are tons of immigration-related spanish-language ads flooding the hispanic radio and television stations from both McCain and Obama pandering to Hispanics like crazy. This is why they never discuss immigration in English-language debates anymore. They avoid the issue in Enlgish language to avoid alienating their non-hispanic base, then go to town on pandering to hispanics via hispanic media and the average joe has no idea. Obama’s campaign has spent over $20 mil in spanish-language ads to pander to hispanics:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/latino/2008/09/19/2008-09-19_obama_and_mccains_spanishlanguage_ads_ar.html

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  72. zorgon,

    That is pretty incredible. I was just having a conversation with a friend about Austin and have heard Austin is crazy cheap.

    You wouldn’t go broke there but you wouldn’t be taking trips to Moscow or flying in Stone Crabs from Joe’s either.

    $1150 barely supports a drug habit. I mean, you can’t even get in the drug dealing Game with a Bankroll like that.

    Just playing.

    And as T correctly says “I’ve gathered he’s anti-Texas and anti-flyover and only likes the big destination cities.” Austin seems like a good move if you don’t have those Anti-isms.

    And if you don’t mind being near the ocean.

    – MPM

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  73. 70 T:

    zorgon, from G Manifesto’s other comments on other blogs, I’ve gathered he’s anti-Texas and anti-flyover and only likes the big destination cities.

    Probably, but I know how the numbers would scale were I back in San Jose, CA, and you still wouldn’t quite need $60K/year to get by.

    Maybe I just have a more modest lifestyle. My parents are upper-middle-class but never spent money the way many other upper-middle-class folks do. They’ve started splurging now that my dad retired, but mostly on travel and wine, and they can easily afford to with the rather substantial savings they built up.

    I was taught that you don’t spend money you don’t have, or on things you don’t need. I buy everything I possibly can at either Walmart or Costco and only go to other stores if there’s something specific I want that I can’t get there. I cook most of my meals. I don’t buy techno-gadgets that go obsolete in 6 months — I own a $50 TV I got off Craigslist when I moved here. I subscribe to unlimited Netflix for $10/month rather than stockpiling hundreds of DVDs. I drive a very basic car that gets good mileage (for which I paid cash) and have always lived close to where I work. I have never carried a credit card balance.

    Now, I grant that I am far from typical in this respect.

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  74. zorgon: It did not get me laid, and it probably even made me more enemies than friends.

    Hey, that’s a good point for David, since he’s so afraid of everything. If you have money, a lot of people will hate you. If you get a new cell or a car, you’ll just have to watch out for muggers.

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  75. T,

    Interesting article (good Tammany Hall reference as well).

    Also of note, because of our economy, many Mexicans are returning to Mexico.

    – MPM

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  76. 75 The G Manifesto:

    I was just having a conversation with a friend about Austin and have heard Austin is crazy cheap.

    Not really. It’s considered “expensive” by Texas standards compared to Houston or Dallas. I mean, a good house here can cost, what, a whole $250-300K!

    This is hardly the cheapest place in the country. It’s just that if you are used to NYC, DC, SF, LA, etc. prices I would say your idea of “normal” is kind of skewed. All of those expensive, major metro areas have been experiencing “white flight” for many years now. Millions of people have moved out of these big coastal cities to places where land and housing is cheap and plentiful. Your average “provider beta” middle class white guy is more likely to live in an exurb or outer-ring suburb like, say, Apple Valley, MN or Round Rock/Cedar Park, TX than in downtown St. Paul/Minneapolis or downtown Austin, much less downtown Manhattan.

    That suburban lifestyle can be quite affordable. Its downside, as I’ve found, is social isolation. You’re not going to meet a lot of young, hip girls in these car-centric suburbs filled with married coupled with kids.

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  77. How is my post “anti-black?”

    Your post wasn’t anti-black either, but as I said, something about your post sparked something in my response towards it, but it’s been nearly impossible to explain why in a coherent and sensible manner. Regardless, it’s rare to see blacks regardless of political leanings point out what some have considered the dying influence of white men. It’s generally a topic that’s left to be discussed among race realists and white nationalists.

    but also because progressive liberalism and white guilt have undermined their will to fight for things

    OTOH, progressive liberalism is what makes it relatively easy for us as the children of black immigrants to live here in the States relatively peacefully and to enjoy the fruits of our labour. Personally, I’m really hesitant to go hate on liberalism when it was liberalism that gave civil rights to non-whites.

    If group X is becoming a lesser proportion of the nation, their influence will wane.

    That’s true, but such an effect can be tempered by the concentrations of wealth, power, and media influence. If the argument is that whites are losing influence to lower IQ non-whites who tend to be poorer, one could argue that whites will remain power with most of the wealth and influence that comes with wealth and power. Besides, one could argue that the low IQ non-whites can be easily swayed…

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  78. The elites have the means to win, but not the will.

    A quibble perhaps, but in my view the elites have tons of will to fight. It’s just that for more than half a century now, they’ve been fighting non-elite whites, using blacks and non-white immigrants as their hammer.

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  79. DA, I didn’t mention anything about IQ.

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  80. Look at how both candidates bend over backward to pander to the hispanic immigrants right now.

    Just for the fun factor alone, I’d like to see the voter turnout levels for non-whites. It would be interesting to see both campaigns spending millions on what could be a low-turn out group…

    Hey, that’s a good point for David, since he’s so afraid of everything. If you have money, a lot of people will hate you.

    Yes, but when you have money, you can retaliate by spending your money to hurt the people who don’t like you. Hell, with money, you can pay people to kiss your ass which certainly mitigates much of the fear factor when it comes to dealing with people, IMHO.

    If you get a new cell or a car, you’ll just have to watch out for muggers.

    A good ignition cut off switch works wonders along with staying the fuck out of high crime areas.

    BTW, my ’95 Saturn with mismatched colour panels was stolen in high-crime area of the Bronx while high end German luxury sedans were left untouched.

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  81. Mankiw and Weinzierl recently published a paper on a height tax and showed how a height tax follows very logically from a number of standard economic principles of efficient taxation that many mainstream economics have long accepted. If you buy the paper’s argument, you must either reject those principles, or you must accept a height tax. (The point of their paper was not to actually advocate a height tax, but to start a discussion on those principles.)

    A tax on men is not a whole lot different in concept than the height tax. In both cases, you’re substituting a direct tax on income with a tax on a factor correlated with income. For a given amount of tax revenue, this causes the tax to have less adverse effect on economic efficiency.

    My guess: you’ll need a better argument than “no, no, THAT could never happen!” to prevent a man tax. I certainly think it’s much more likely than a height tax.

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  82. T — a couple of things. First, hate crimes cannot single out just straight white males because they are and will be for the foreseeable future (10-20 years out) the majority. For example, working class white men are the biggest (25%) slice of the electorate.

    Second, it’s too dangerous — you could have Muslim or Black or Hispanic men on trial for hate crimes against Gays, or Women. Can’t have that because it causes multiculturalism to collapse.

    My own take is that straight white men will fight HARDER and become more identity politics driven as they see their numbers decline and their missed opportunities and such become more costly. Particularly in a lingering recession.

    We have had a politics of “good times” and that is coming to an end. Joe the Plumber is just one aspect of this — the elites are a thin group in terms of numbers, and the institutions they control are plummeting in trust, and influence.

    The media is losing readers, viewers, and so on. Losing money and power and even if money is pumped into them by Dems, it will be like the State Owned Enterprises in China, places just propped up that are drains not productive places making things nobody wants. Same for the judiciary, lawyers, the legislatures.

    Under economic stress, people including the largest demographic, Whites, will demand goodies. That’s a train-wreck collision between Affirmative Action demands and various money going to community groups and demands for stuff direct to Whites.

    Example: the Ohio Child Services Head, one Jones-Kelley, a Black woman and Maximum Obama donor, illegally pawed through Joe the Plumber’s computer records, and then illegally released the records to the Press.

    Now, how do most White people feel about that? That Government is both Uber-Liberal, and “Black” and hostile to Whites. Blacks are only 12% of the population, and Hispanics are about 13%. The stuff White People like crowd is small. They have lots of media exposure because they resemble the Media elites, but a rising economic history, good times, followed by a sudden and permanent drop in incomes/status, and a particular set of “minorities” as preferred and special groups, is a textbook definition of “pre-Revolutionary” conditions.

    This is particularly true if the men are priced out of the wife-market, so to speak. I don’t think there will be civil war, but already the model I predicted, grass-roots, military veteran based candidates, explicit White populism, is growing. Efforts are underway to create this as part of the Republican party.

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  83. DA, I didn’t mention anything about IQ.

    Yes, that’s true, but once you begin to mention non-whites, the main thrust of the debate tends to focus around the low IQ of non-Asian minorities.

    But why would feminists want polygamy? Based on the going-ons among LDS fundamentalists and Muslims, it’s not an institution that is to the benefit of women.

    One could argue that it’s not married polygamy that women want, but a slight modification of the system we have now where women aim for the high end players and alpha males, but maintain financial independence to avoid being forced into marrying men.

    As I’ve noted, under polygamy, beta males like myself lose out, but under “playerogamy”, spongy emotional beta males like myself leech off women for emotional benefits in platonic relationships without any of the downsides of a real relationship.

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  84. BTW, my ‘95 Saturn with mismatched colour panels was stolen in high-crime area of the Bronx while high end German luxury sedans were left untouched.

    They were probably afraid the sedans belonged to a drug dealer who wouldn’t be shy about getting revenge.

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  85. 88 David Alexander:

    As I’ve noted, under polygamy, beta males like myself lose out, but under “playerogamy”, spongy emotional beta males like myself leech off women for emotional benefits in platonic relationships without any of the downsides of a real relationship.

    “Emotional benefits”? You’re not even a beta.

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  86. on October 28, 2008 at 10:40 pm Large Hadron Collider

    or tell feminists to shut the fuck up and “suck it”

    *Which releases more pent up energy than fission –
    but less than fusion.

    All in the interest of physics, of course.

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  87. Don’t get me started on the suburbs. Hell on earth.

    I would rather be in the middle of a race riot on the yard in Pelican Bay.

    – MPM

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  88. Yes, Feminists want this. I want to win the Superlotto, and a date with Michelle Trachtenberg. Neither is likely to happen.

    In fact, we are seeing the division of men and women even further, as Republicans pick up more and more men and Democrats more and more women. Let’s examine these:

    Man Tax: non starter because can you imagine Black guys paying this? Or Hispanic guys? Gay guys? That leaves Straight White guys and singling them out is too politically dangerous. It’s a closely divided election, and feminists are not that much in numbers. Even in Europe, can you imagine a Swedish tax collector making the rounds of the Muslim ghettoes? And if Muslims can ignore it, so too can others if they are violent enough.

    Thought Crimes: Yes this is already happening. However, the backlash is that it can be applied to Blacks and Hispanics, by ambitious young White attorneys in mostly White voting districts, so expect it to vanish from both Europe and America because that sword has two edges.

    Porn/Sexbot/Foreign Brides: Porn is not going away, it’s too much big business, and too desired by women as well. Heck watch any Showtime “Diary of a Call Girl” or “True Blood” show — women like it as much as men. Sexbots, IMHO, are very long way away, and will never really satisfy. Foreign brides are going away anyway with the global competition for women and native countries forbidding it.

    Castration: NEVER happen because it would castrate many Blacks and Hispanics. Apply only to White Men? Again, far too dangerous politically. Substitute Muslim in Europe for Black/Hispanic, that’s the political reality.

    Rape = Death Penalty? Never happen because see above. Heck a LA case involving Child Rape was ruled unconstitutional by the Liberals on the US Supreme Court.

    DNA testing: Bans are unlikely because there are too many cheap places to do it, and like drugs it’s too easy to supply. No technology has been outlawed for long. There is also the means to collect money from NBA/NFL players, etc. So don’t expect that to happen any time soon.

    Polygamy: Yes. Already happening, as you note.

    Better Pay: Yes, Already happening.

    Like


  89. seriously, david alexander, not to take this too off course, but whats with the constant woe-is-me bullshit. youve really just resigned yourself to being a failure at destroying pussy? or at least in getting some at all? i understand having “beta” tendencies, or being in a rut, or whatever, but its fucking sad to think of just giving up like that. have a little self respect.

    also on the income tangent, chicago is a big city that is pretty easy to live in on the cheap. 60K a year you can splurge on a lot – including a drug habit. make it 100K and you can live very comfortably. especially – as guy from austin points out – as a single guy.

    Like


  90. 76 zorgon

    Now, I grant that I am far from typical in this respect.

    No, you aren’t, at least in comparison with The G Manifesto…

    Like


  91. The only whites willing to fight for themselves are proles. They have the will to win but not the means. The elites have the means to win, but not the will.

    this must be why a handful of elite financial services types just gave themselves $70 billion in bonuses after getting $700 billion in taxpayer money through the bailout.

    Believe me, there are rich elite white people who know exactly how to protect their interests and do it very effectively.

    Like


  92. They were probably afraid the sedans belonged to a drug dealer who wouldn’t be shy about getting revenge.

    The sedans were parked behind a non-profit that aids the poor in locating housing. The sedans belonged to the white collar employees who worked second jobs to pay for the cars. The drug dealing and prostitution are commonplace in areas only a few blocks away in an industrial area. Regardless, I’m still unable to understand why thieves would take a barely running Saturn with obvious accident damage over any of the other cars in that parking lot.

    “Emotional benefits”? You’re not even a beta.

    It’s nice having platonic female friends who I can be open and candid with while not having to bother having sex with them.

    Like


  93. this must be why a handful of elite financial services types just gave themselves $70 billion in bonuses after getting $700 billion in taxpayer money through the bailout.

    Believe me, there are rich elite white people who know exactly how to protect their interests and do it very effectively.

    I’m talking about white, straight men fighting for their rights as white, straight men. What you are talking about is a class issue. Sure most of the people who benefited where white but there were people of all races who cleaned up with that. It wasn’t straight white men fighting for their rights as straight white men. It was rich people of all races (majority white, but still all races) making more money. Look at Stan O’Neal for example:

    Or check out the amount of super-rich people who are voting for Obama, an ultraliberal marxist:

    Those are rich people fighting for rich people, not straight white people fighting for the rights of straight whites. My point is that elite straight white people won’t fight for or against something strictly on the basis that it benefits or hurts straight, white men. The straight white proles will, but for elite whites, being progressively liberal is more important.

    Like


  94. Several people have taken issue with this quote:

    “Eventually, the pendulum will swing back once basic infrastructure begins to crumble as the betas decide their services are no longer appreciated. The masterworks of beta cooperation will be a relic of the past.”

    The point is not that beta men will lie down in their own filth until they die once they realize that they will never have wives or families. They will still work for money to buy things. They just won’t work nearly as hard.

    Don’t underestimate the impact this will have on our society should we return to polygamy where Alpha males horde the women. Or should sexbots replace women for most betas.

    I have never married friends, married friends, and divorced friends. I’m in the never married category. Without exception, my married/divorced friends work twice as hard as my never married friends. At least. I have a friend right now who is pulling every overtime shift he can to pay for recently discovered water damage to his home. The repairs don’t actually cost that much, but they upset the delicate balance that is his family budget. And now he must exert a tremendous amount of effort to hold everything together. He was working hard before, for the next few months that’s all he’s going to do.

    Me? I don’t work half as hard as I should, which would still be half the work of any of my married/divorced friends. Why bother? I like money for “things”, but whether I get a new toy (camera, TV, whatever) in one month or have to save for 3 is not that big of a deal. I have no real commitments. Why put in overtime? Why push hard for the promotion? With our progressive tax system the incremental costs of working harder for higher pay really aren’t worth it unless you HAVE to have that higher pay to take care of a wife and kids. I would rather have more days off to enjoy myself or pursue something I’m passionate about than get a tiny bit more after-tax money for another 10-20 hours of work a week.

    I’ve actually been feeling pretty lazy and down on myself recently because of this very attitude, but it didn’t take me long to figure out why I have this attitude. And the more I think about it, the more I wonder if I should care. What is my goal? I love women, but what are the odds that I’ll find a good wife in America? Do I really want a wife who can destroy me at will in a divorce? Do I really want to put in 60+ hour weeks to try and provide for kids, after the government busts my balls in taxes for all that hard work? Is this really how I want to spend the next 20-30 years I have before age starts to tear me down and I realize my life is slowly coming to an end? Do I really want to wake up one morning with a home mortgage that never ends, bills stacked high, kids running off to college, and a wife saying “We need to talk…you just don’t make me feel the way I want to any more…”?

    If you’re married and love your wife, or at least your kids, you’re going to put in whatever work effort is necessary to provide for them and hold that unit together. That becomes everything. If you’re not married, you feel like society should kiss your butt for even bothering to show up at work at all. There’s a mountain to hike or a wave to surf.

    H is right on this one. Productivity is correlated with marriage and family. Take that away from betas and you might as well have a third world country.

    Like


  95. It’s nice having platonic female friends who I can be open and candid with while not having to bother having sex with them.

    DA, serious question: are you sure you’re not gay?

    Like


  96. Anyone with a link to fems who seek to ban DNA testing?

    Like


  97. If DNA testing is banned, all you have to do is do 15 minutes of internet reserch for genetic labs in Asia or Europe, and send some hair strands there.

    Like


  98. DA’s not gay, he’s masochistic. He’s like a guy in an s&m relationships who actually wears a male chastity belt because part of him gets off on being at the mercy of the dominant partner. Only difference is, womankind at large is involuntarily his dominant partner. He likes to look womankind in the eyes and say, look, you can torment me, but since I refuse to act like it hurts, I win in some moral sense.

    As a fellow Christian, my advice to you, DA, is to join a monastery, as a lay brother if you don’t have a vocation. Don’t waste your life masturbating in your parents’ basement and pretending that your platonic female friends don’t have justified contempt for you.

    Like


  99. jaakkeli saidIf that makes no sense, you have to first realize that Europe has been receiving lots of African prostitutes lately, so now it’s double-super-victim-black-women infecting white men

    Is someone putting a gun to the heads of Swedish men and making them approach African prostitutes? Why are they not raping up if they are sleeping with working girls? Do you think it may be that some Swedish men like blk women? *

    * I would say yes. I was given the eye quite a bit while in Sweden and the Netherlands. While in France I received male attention but far less than in either of the two before mentioned countries

    Like


  100. BTW, I like the very subtle way men from the Netherlands approach.

    Like


  101. Kick a Bitch
    And polygamy IS the natural result of legalized gay marriage

    dude, i’m down with multiple wives… bitches better have high-paying jobs though. i mean seriously, wtf would i work if i had multiple wives? feed them dick would be a full-time job anyway.

    Something tells me you are one the nicest guys before you long on to this site.

    Like


  102. […] Vision Of A Feminist Utopia I will now present to you a vision of hell as dreamed up in the minds of the man-hating women who litter internet […] […]

    Like


  103. G man said was talking to my friend the other day, and we were talking about how making $250,000 a year where we live is “just scrapping by

    Ah, a wall st banker snob in the comment box!

    animus saidBut I have had some *great* budget vacations. But that’s mostly due to me doing things you wouldn’t ever do

    Like What???

    Like


  104. @55 – I hear you. Given those two choices, most would probably take the first. It’s just not so black and white. But if you switch the 5 to a 7 switch swimming in hot chicks to a relatively steady stream of decent looking girls, I think it’s not such an easy choice.

    This is what happens when we get these so-so posts. We end up talking about something else.

    Like


  105. 101 canty:

    DA’s not gay, he’s masochistic.

    He’s a momma’s boy. He has yet to push away from the teat and become a man.

    His gooey platonic friendships with women are his way of keeping mommy around, stroking him and telling him what a wonderful little boy he is.

    Like


  106. I’m not a feminist, but how ’bout a vision of a Troll Utopia?

    Like


  107. Micheal saidQuality denim feels nicer than shitty denim, and linen in 80 degrees feels better than both

    Michael, I think the high priced denim lines are one of the biggest “getovers” in the fashion business behind 2k+ handbags & shoes. I really can’t tell the difference between levi’s and seven jeans. I gladly buy upscale denim at Felines Closet and/or any other discounter I can find for no more than 70 bucks. Stores like Jcrew sold denim for 50 bucks one year and increased their prices to 100 bucks 12 months later. SMH we Americans will waste money on anything, even when it is clearly of inferior quality just to “be down”.

    If a woman judges you for not wearing name brands I got something you can tell her.

    Like


  108. sara I
    I’m not a feminist, but how ’bout a vision of a Troll Utopia?

    What?

    Like


  109. 109 Chic:

    I really can’t tell the difference between levi’s and seven jeans.

    Really? I’m no fashion hound but even I can appreciate the difference in quality. The fit and hang is a lot better.

    Your statement would be more accurate if you replaced “Levi’s” with, say, Guess or Mavi.

    I agree that paying much more than 100 bucks for jeans is overkill, but paying much less is not a bargain, IMO.

    Like


  110. on October 29, 2008 at 1:04 am Comment_Whatever

    Nobody here is being blunt enough. Now the people who say “men work” are thinking very bluntly. Viscious thug style. That is “you work hard or die”.

    But that’s a pathetic joke.

    For the top 20% of the population, they can slack easy, and still feed themselves. The only way to put them ‘under pressure’ is to liquidate the lowest 20% of the population. Because as long as the lowest 20% can feed itself and survive, the highest 20% doesn’t have to work hard to survive.

    Does fairness matter? It matters if I decide it matters. We’ve already established that I, and far more than 20% of the population, don’t have to work real hard to survive. So I work hard if I feel like it. And if I decide unfairness means I don’t feel like it, well, that’s mate in one.

    It doesn’t matter what all these posters think “I should feel” or their garbage about how “working harder would really help me”. I doesn’t matter how much they love me.

    I have a feeling which I have decided to act on. And no, I don’t ‘feel’ that having to compete with imported Hindu Slaves and wages dropping over 20% for engineers in the last eight years alone is ‘fair’.

    And that’s not changing no matter how much certain posters love me and want to help me. Of course, I don’t believe them.

    Like


  111. 110 chicnoir

    Trolls deserve equal rights too, is all I’m saying.

    Like


  112. A troll is kind of like a feminist without feminism.

    Like


  113. His gooey platonic friendships with women are his way of keeping mommy around, stroking him and telling him what a wonderful little boy he is.

    Tupac Chopra peut voir le mal qui se cache dans le cœur de cet homme.

    Like


  114. 100 PA

    If DNA testing is banned, all you have to do is do 15 minutes of internet reserch for genetic labs in Asia or Europe, and send some hair strands there.

    Well, yes. But I haven’t seen any evidence that there’s a danger of a ban in the first place, and I asked you earlier to provide a reference to the contrary and you didn’t notice. So, I’ll ask again: why is this a concern in the first place?

    (That said, I am concerned that the US might ban some important forms of genetic research.)

    Like


  115. I just realized something DA….you recently talked about “lowlife niggers” in one of your comments. Yet my comment here offended you? Seems kind of inconsistent there…

    Like


  116. DoJ
    *big smile*

    🙂

    Like


  117. PA, I think DNA paternity testing should be mandatory before any man is allowed to sign a birth certificate or pay child support. As a woman, I am shocked at the number of women who are irresponsible when it comes to bringing another life into this horrible world.

    Like


  118. CZ — I think you underestimate the ability of even White guys to make trouble. Among the easiest — recall politicians.

    Amnesty was supposed to be a done deal, the posters upthread are correct on the Spanish-language stuff. Yet the angry white guys made Amnesty dead.

    Because Congress critters were afraid of being defeated or recalled. Simple as that.

    Moreover, look at history. FDR excluded Blacks along with the AFL from labor unions, deported Mexicans, and required citizenship for the New Deal. This was to maximize his patronage and prevent wedge issues from making their play by various rivals. I.E. “the New Deal is for the minorities, not you.”

    It’s worth noting that both Indonesia and Malaysia exclude the dominant Chinese diaspora minority from most government jobs, and require the majority Malays or Indonesians to be given Affirmative Action jobs … as part of the Majority.

    We’ve had “good times” politics in plenty. It will be different story moving ahead.

    Like


  119. 118 – PA: Apparently, it can be very hard to get a court order for a DNA test. Especially if your doubts creep in some time after her conception. Most men are dumb enough to sign Paternity Acknowledgment Forms in good faith while DNA paternity tests are available OTC at any CVS store:
    http://www.canadiancrc.com/Newspaper_Articles/The_Australian_Magazine_Whos_Your_Daddy_06NOV04.aspx

    Like


  120. That said, I am concerned that the US might ban some important forms of genetic research.

    Don’t be concerned. They’re only going to ban the work that makes people cry.

    Yet my comment here offended you?

    I was never offended by your comment.

    Interestingly, I’ve heard a few black conservatives, particularly immigrants, use the “stupid nigger” remark. The whole (poorly crafted) intellectual underpinnings behind the “lowlife” remark is that reducing the number of failed and broken social pathologies in the black community will serve as the firewall against white nationalism.

    I simply suggested that there would be ways of circumventing such bans via foreign DNA labs.

    If the practice is illegal in the United States, would it be a crime to use the public mail system to ship various materials overseas for DNA paternity testing?

    Like


  121. Whiskey,
    Why not?
    Man Tax: Far more Black and Hispanic guys are already out of the straight, white, digital, paper-trailed, verifiable, steady, easily-taxable economy than (straight) white guys. If the economy further tanks, that fall-off increases. If the economy improves, that fall-off reverses but the financial lot of beta’s improves… so “they can afford it.” Look up “anarcho-tyranny”: government tyrannical primarily to those who play by the rules; anarchy primarily for all others. Read Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag, specifically the parts about how the socialist/cultural-marxists gave the thugs and real criminals (robbers, murderers, rapists) a pass, even within the prison system, but doled out 10 and 20-year hard-labor arctic circle sentences for the political equivalent of a parking ticket. Actually, not even a parking ticket; for telling the truth. Why wouldn’t it keep on trending the way she has described it? Why wouldn’t taxing Straight White (Beta) Guys be a starter? There’s (still) a lot of money there. (There’s a lot of ruin in a nation.) Why wouldn’t a feminist redistributive government direct a tax at them? Indeed, you answer the question: “[I]f Muslims can ignore it, so too can others if they are violent enough.” White guys are presently the least violent and the wealthiest. Q.E.D.
    The rest of your criticism is similarly flawed.
    Addendum: Solzhenitsyn on the Chechens: “There was one nation which would not give in, would not acquire the mental habits of submission — and not just individual rebels among them, but the whole nation to a man. These were the Chechens… The Chechens never sought to please, to ingratiate themselves with the bosses; their attitude was always haughty and indeed openly hostile… And here is the extraordinary thing: everyone was afraid of them. No one could stop them from living as they did. The regime which had ruled the land for thirty years could not force them to respect its laws.”

    Like


  122. Your writings on polygamy are similar to future Chinese society. You are going to have tens of millions of frustrated beta males who can’t find women because of the one child policy that favored baby boys. The government will have to find some way to keep those betas complacent, possibly through a militaristic foreign policy.

    But why would feminists want polygamy? Based on the going-ons among LDS fundamentalists and Muslims, it’s not an institution that is to the benefit of women.

    Like


  123. 11minutes: wow, that article was horrifying. Of course it all comes back to welfare-statism: the responsible must be forced to take responsibility for the actions of the irresponsible. Because if we cut off child support for these kids from men who are not their fathers… then the kids could be harmed! And the state would have to kick in the money instead! Never mind the responsibility of the mother or of the true biological father…

    Like


  124. 123 David Alexander

    Don’t be concerned. They’re only going to ban the work that makes people cry.

    Well, it’s time for me to push back hard.

    Last time I checked, the work you refer to is on what is easily the best pathway to ameliorating the most distressing genetic inequalities. You cannot entirely solve Africa’s IQ problem without understanding and finding some way to address its genetic components. (Of course, we should deal with the known environmental components first, e.g. get iodine to everyone and get the word out about breastfeeding, now.)

    Every year this work is delayed is one more year of Chinese imperialism there (which may not be worse than European imperialism, but it sure isn’t something I’d like my cousins to live under).

    Like


  125. To quote Norman Mailer …

    Feminists should be locked up in cages.

    LOL

    Like


  126. #123 David Alexander: If the government outlaws that, then yes, it would be a crime. And quite frankly there’s no reason why they can’t and no reason why they wouldn’t.

    Anyway, the point of banning paternity testing isn’t to keep betas from finding out that they’ve been cuckolded (although I suppose that’s still a hassle for the anti-beta types). The point of banning paternity testing will be to ensure that DNA paternity results can’t be brought up in court. That way, beta males are still on the hook for child support.

    That means that, explicitly or (as I just described) implicitly, DNA paternity results will eventually become inadmissible.

    Like


  127. Is someone putting a gun to the heads of Swedish men and making them approach African prostitutes? Why are they not raping up if they are sleeping with working girls?

    I’m having some problems understanding where these questions came from…

    The simple reason Europe is getting African prostitutes is that Africa has lots of desperately poor people. It’s reaching the north only recently, I’m guessing because it’s mostly illegals who couldn’t travel freely before the EU.

    Do you think it may be that some Swedish men like blk women?

    How should I know? From local stereotypes I’d assume that Swedish men like black men.

    Like


  128. I see this post as being half tongue-in-cheek. Feminist power in the US is located primarily in moldy academic and government bureaucracies. They certainly have the power to give people grief, but not enough for mandatory castration. Some would probably go for the list but castration enthusiasm would have to be reserved for the absolutely looniest of feminists. I personally care more about people’s actions than their fantasies.

    Like


  129. 127 Smiler:

    The point of banning paternity testing will be to ensure that DNA paternity results can’t be brought up in court. That way, beta males are still on the hook for child support.

    Any person, male or female, expressing support for such legislation should be shot in the fucking head. On sight.

    Like


  130. If any of you fellows want to tweak feminists on their home turf, try going to equalwrites.blogspot.com

    Like


  131. DA – what’s your goal in posting here. You don;t really seem to want to change your plight, but you aren’t like one of those guys that is here to bash the mindset or game either. In fact, I’ve seen you even admit that game and the alpha theories have merit.

    So if you don’t want to change yourself but don’t come here to discredit his theories of game either, what is your goal? Seeking out abuse? Pity? Comedy/performance art?

    Like


  132. Well, it’s time for me to push back hard.

    The problem is that if the research is done and proves low genetic IQ, but that there’s nothing we can do about it with current technology in the short to medium term, then we’re stuck with public knowledge of this information, which IMHO, fuels the sentiment of white nationalists and allows them to gain more influence over the other whites. The last thing that I want is more recruiting material for white nationalists.

    get iodine to everyone

    Given the low IQ and average SAT scores of blacks in the US, the iodine is good at pushing IQ scores upward, but nowhere near close enough to white IQ levels…

    Like


  133. chicnoir,

    “G man said was talking to my friend the other day, and we were talking about how making $250,000 a year where we live is “just scrapping by

    Ah, a wall st banker snob in the comment box!”

    Come on. I aside from a few, I can’t stand bankers.

    Plus, they work too hard for two little dough anyway.

    – MPM

    Like


  134. DoJ: I don’t know anything about the legality of DNA paternity tests. This isn’t a concern of mine. But since H and a few commenters mentioned the possibility of it being banned, I simply suggested that there would be ways of circumventing such bans via foreign DNA labs.

    Like


  135. CZ — as for B, I would say that we are seeing more polarization and gender divides than ever before, but the wild card is marriage rates.

    Single men, and married ones, don’t vote Democratic or Leftists. As Steyn notes, even in 1996, Dole carried Men. Married women as you note vote their sons and husbands interests. Hispanics as they become more numerous will absolutely crush feminists, also PETA, and many other cherished leftist and feminist causes.

    Leftists and feminists bet that the “Janissary effect” of White culture will make all young men and women hard left, true in DC/NYC/LA metro areas of the young, hip, and white, but totally untrue just a few miles from the hipsters in various Latino barrios. You can go from the scene of Skybar in LA to say, a barrio bar a few miles away and find totally different attitudes that will not change, even with their sons and daughters immersed in Anglo culture. Believe me.

    The Republican Party is getting Whiter and more male, the kicker is that women might in a serious depression flock to it as the opportunities are given to Blacks and Hispanics that make up the Democratic Party core coalition. Among European parties, a lingering depression would force choices for Muslim minorities first, over native European women.

    Women do want the soft polygamy of urban centers, sharing the few Alpha males of high status and power, but those are “good times” politics of say, 1965-now. Put in a lingering recession and/or depression, and you get a different story. Women will still WANT what they want (sex with a few Alpha men they share with other women) but won’t be able to afford it.

    As you say, the temporal power of birthrate differentials of evangelical Christians, Latino Catholics, and Mormons will also play a part. Terminally hip yuppie men and women don’t reproduce, and rely on the “Janissary effect” of culture. Recession and less status-striving on expensive clothes/etc. will hurt that effect greatly.

    David Alexander — Europe was nothing before the Romans (and Greeks). Who considered themselves apart from the barbarians who surrounded them. The Greek “barbar” was the equivalent of Team America: World Police’s “durka durka durka” bit. The gibberish that Europeans around the Greeks made. Europe was nothing after Rome fell, until the rise of Monogamy and free-holding.

    Simple cultural rules show the path to success: monogamy, freeholding, cooperative societies where Big Men are held down (nearly all of Western Culture has rebels against “Big Men” from Robin Hood, Sir Thomas More, Thomas Becket, etc. along with deliberate “limited” men who show proper surrendering of power when it’s time: King Arthur, Sherlock Holmes, Beowulf, Wyatt Earp, Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Daredevil, etc.)

    Along with the limiting of the Big Man is the rule of law, property rights, and family formation for the average man, which increases male cooperation greatly, and directs resources towards a “deep-wide” model of wealth increases instead of guarding against being seized by the Big Man.

    THIS MODEL WORKS! It is simple, but very difficult to pull off, as it requires lots of social strictures against the “default setting of human evolution” which is Big Man and harems, lots of resentful betas plotting revenge and overthrowing. Which of course takes up all the energy of society.

    Africa never produced a Wright Brothers, because all the creative energy went into displays (music, physique, etc) or plotting against the local Big Man, or trying to stay out of his way. Japan, China, and Korea, all bound by Big Men themselves, have successfully thrown off the Big Man.

    Conceptually, there is no reason Africa could not be as wealthy as the US, IF they threw off the Big Man society and built a small, freeholding, monogamous society built on male cooperation, with careful limiting of male and female sexuality.

    In other words, a good dose of Victorian Christianity and zeal for science and technology. This is proven to work. Even with Europeans, who were for most of history naked barbarians practicing awful human sacrifice (THor and Odin were always hungry for blood and the Celtic gods were just as bad).

    Remember: humans are incredibly adaptable. This is our advantage over other hominids.

    Like


  136. built a small, freeholding, monogamous society built on male cooperation, with careful limiting of male and female sexuality.

    So in other words, to have a functioning civilization, one needs to swap an decadence and alpha collusion for the boring humdrum reproductive-only sex of Victorian times. Shudder. One would suspect that humans are much better and smarter than that, and that a much better arrangement could be developed given our flexibility as you point out. As I’ve pointed out, I’m sexless and I don’t go around coming up with plots of revenge on attacking alphas and stealing women.

    Africa never produced a Wright Brothers, because all the creative energy went into displays (music, physique, etc) or plotting against the local Big Man, or trying to stay out of his way. Japan, China, and Korea, all bound by Big Men themselves, have successfully thrown off the Big Man.

    Some would theoretically argue that the big difference between Africa and the East Asian nations that you listed is the IQ factor. Even if you were to have the quasi-Victorian society that you discuss, if the intellectual power is lacking, it doesn’t really provide for the ability to develop science and technology.

    Like


  137. Whiskey,
    If I have it correctly, your argument is: Feminists will not have their way, and the trends in the feminist direction will not come to the CH described dystopian fruition because of two reasons: On the one hand, (a) the reforms would have to be, for some unstated reason, instituted across the board against all males, thus including blacks and hispanics, who would, presumably, throw a permitted or excused shit-fit –permitted or excused because, well, uh, you know, they’re black and hispanic; this revolt would stop the particular feminist programs in their tracks, or at least derail them, as it were. On the other hand, (b) white men actually aren’t yet totally neutered, gelded, or impotent politically, e.g. the scuppering of the immigration amnesty.
    As for (a), I responded, and here I summarize: so what?; the powers that be could simply not focus on the blacks and hispanics but pick-off the comparatively more pliable/compliant whites first. As for (b), I now respond, also, so what?; as long as it’s not rushed things might come along (think frog in pot). That may or may not be a deal-breaker. People have been wiped out before.
    In the interests of fair debate, I agree that it’s just a dystopian nightmare and won’t happen, but for a different reason: the temporal element. Which is just a BS way of saying women won’t and instinctually can’t pull it off for more than a generation or so. They won’t raise their sons that way. Or if they do some other bitches who raised their sons to kick ass –including their sisters’ asses in some instances, will take over. It’s self-defeating. As all lies are. BTW, can you guess which religious, ethnic, and cultural groups I am thinking of as potential Sabine takers?

    Like


  138. #69 DoJ

    Your post caused me some painful flashbacks…

    It has taken me way, way, WAY too long to realize that girls aren’t sweet and innocent things made of sugar and spice to be placed on pedestals and worshiped. And that being a “nice guy” won’t get me any where near what I want in terms of women and sex.

    The only saving grace is that the nice guy syndrome protected me from attracting and marrying a woman who would later crush me in court during my delusional phase. I’ve watched that happen to too many friends. I’m older and wiser now and while I’m still struggling to move from beta to alpha, at least when I get to alpha I’ll have a better idea of what I want…and what I want to watch out for.

    Like


  139. animus said
    But I have had some *great* budget vacations. But that’s mostly due to me doing things you wouldn’t ever do

    Like What???

    Partying, drinking and hitting on chicks. Note that I was talking to David Alexander. Given his nature, I’m fairly certain that he’s not going on trips, getting smashed and picking up Spring Breakers. Which is what he pretty much confirmed.

    Like


  140. Dudes — so much fear and anger here. Let it go. Feminism won. Get over it.

    Like


  141. Want to see my utopia? Dig this scene from Black Caesar:

    Like


  142. Feminism won? Not in my world.

    The fear of competition from foreign women is, IMO, well founded. There are plenty of nice American women out there, but disrespectful behavior is way too tolerated and common here. I won’t say it never happens in Japan – I recall my landlord’s wife tossing his mistresses’ stuff into the street one evening – amusing until the cops came and took her away (the wife, not the mistress) – but it is rare.

    Like


  143. Will not happen. A 9mm to the back of every feminist’s little head would be the more likely outcome if they ever tried something like this.

    Like


  144. This is pretty stupid. You ‘alphas’ seem pretty scared and paranoid. Women are not an enemy. They are an easy comfort and a source of joy. Do you get a dog in order to beat it? No, you get a dog and treat it with kindness and it is source of happiness and it is the same with human beings. It is the same with women. There is an antagonism but it is the soft antagonism of sport not of the hard antagonism of war. You should seek victory without malice.

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  145. Michaelfoody – you need to differentiate between women and radical feminists. Women are not the enemy, but radical feminists are. And they are not just the enemy to men, they are the enemy to women too. The only people they are truly friends to are other Marxists.

    Like


  146. 144 michaelfoody

    OMG. Where the heaven did you come from?

    Are you for real, or just posing?

    Like


  147. 146 – You really like being compared to dogs, don’t you?

    Like


  148. Analogies are not syllogisms. There only needs to be a single illuminating parallel. Women are like dogs in some ways and women are like wine in others. And a thousand other things, and there are good and bad ways to be like a dog and women are like dogs in a good way. I am not insulting the sex with my comparison.

    Like


  149. > All fictional characters, LOL. You should put the greatest historical example of this — George Washington — on your list.

    There’s a whole possible list: Washington, Cincinnatus, etc. Not that the complete list would be limited to Westerners. Asoka, for example, definitely qualifies.

    Like


  150. It’s no wonder whiskey can’t get laid when he’s idolizing Spiderman.

    And I like hanging out with the enemy, whether it’s sex, politics or some great nerd debate on the relative merits of superheroes. There’s gotta be conflict or it gets boring.

    Like


  151. Wyatt Earp was a fictional character?

    Like


  152. on October 29, 2008 at 6:42 pm atheist_messiah

    Scrapping by on 250K?

    How do I live on 60K/year? Easy. I don’t do as much coke and meth as you. Anyone can scrape by on 250k when they’re addicted to coke.

    Like


  153. #153

    Um, Wyatt Earp was a real person.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyatt_Earp

    When I was young, I always thought that all the stuff of western lore was just legendary. It wasn’t until a lot later that I discovered that there WAS a Shootout at the OK Corral, and that there WAS a Billy the Kid and Jesse James, and that there WAS a Wild Bill Hickok who was murdered in a poker game in Deadwood, SD, where he is buried.

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  154. If you make 250,000 and feel you are just scraping by you have a serious mental health problem. Like a girl who weighs under a 100 pounds and feels she’s not thin enough.

    Like


  155. I seriously friggin’ doubt anyone here makes $250K.

    Like


  156. And let’s not forget an Age of consent at 18 instead of puberty…wait a moment, the US already has that.

    Like


  157. PA:

    I seriously friggin’ doubt anyone here makes $250K.

    Why would that be so hard to believe? A pretty decent percentage of the population makes $250K/year or more when you add up all sources of income, not just salary. Given the demographic on this site, I suspect there are more than a few.

    I’ve certainly filed a few tax returns reporting income well in excess of that number. This year will be below that, and most likely next year too, but that’s another story.

    Gannon:

    Age of consent at 18 instead of puberty…wait a moment, the US already has that.

    Depends on the state. 17 here I believe.

    Like


  158. along with deliberate “limited” men who show proper surrendering of power when it’s time: King Arthur, Sherlock Holmes, Beowulf, Wyatt Earp, Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Daredevil, etc.)

    All fictional characters, LOL. You should put the greatest historical example of this — George Washington — on your list.

    Women are not the enemy, but radical feminists are.

    he finds women in general the enemy, at least that’s the attitude expressed in his posts here. Slightly below the surface, but only slightly.

    Like


  159. — You should put the greatest historical example of this — George Washington — on your list.

    Of surprising examples, Richard Nixon will do too. When he saw that he wouldn’t prevail in an impeachment trial, he stepped aside. In a different kind of society, he may not have.

    — he finds women in general the enemy, at least that’s the attitude expressed in his posts here.

    An overwrought point. He probably sees women as the adversary — a counterpart to men in the ying-yang of life. A part of what’s good and natural.

    The feminist, on the other hand, is who he sees as the enemy, an unnatural, unwholesome creature.

    Like


  160. Why can’t life be like it was in the 1950’s?

    Like


  161. Jaakeli said
    How should I know? From local stereotypes I’d assume that Swedish men like black men.

    SMDH
    This is a sterotype of Swedish men. I came across a whole line of sterotypes that Europeans have of each other. In America ugly men acuse goodlooking men of being gay because unattractive men are jelous.

    It’s no wonder whiskey can’t get laid when he’s idolizing Spiderman.

    *dead faint*

    I like Whiskey. He and I don’t agree on much but he is alright. He has never laid into me and I tease him often. Maybe he gives me a break since he knows I’ m a baby. I will add that he has a real alpha quality in that he is not overly sensitive.

    Whiskey saidRemember: humans are incredibly adaptable. This is our advantage over other hominids
    I agree

    DA saidSome would theoretically argue that the big difference between Africa and the East Asian nations that you listed is the IQ factor. Even if you were to have the quasi-Victorian society that you discuss, if the intellectual power is lacking, it doesn’t really provide for the ability to develop science and technology

    DA, have you had any continental Africans in any of your Math and Science classes? Do they not “clean the clock” of most other students?

    sara I
    144 michaelfoody

    OMG. Where the heaven did you come from?

    Are you for real, or just posing?

    Sara you just beat me to it.

    Like


  162. For some reason that ^^^comment posted as anon.

    Like


  163. on October 29, 2008 at 11:36 pm misterdobalina

    I seriously friggin’ doubt anyone here makes $250K.

    I do! And I’m 6″1, 180, all muscle, and completely and hopelessly beta.

    Like


  164. ^^^Do you like blk girls 🙂

    *looks for gold digging shovel*

    j/k

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  165. From local stereotypes I’d assume that Swedish men like black men.

    Yes, but the important question is if Swedish women like black men? 🙂

    DA, have you had any continental Africans in any of your Math and Science classes? Do they not “clean the clock” of most other students?

    I’ve had some in my community college math and science classes and they didn’t do any better than the other students. Of course, my sample may be biased.

    Like


  166. This thread is wack.. 2 females and a thousand men cyber hi fiving it. As a feminist, its only fair to give a little feedback for your utopia 🙂

    Man Tax – You may not have gotten the memo, but feminism is actually about equality. A tax based on sex is a bit ludicrous and makes everything we fight for hypocritical.

    Think Crimes – Kinda goes with above, feminism is a liberal philosophy aimed at giving more rights not taking away.. Feminists have nothing in common with George Bush, we don’t go to war with people for what they *could* have done.

    Ban on Porn, Sex bots blah blah – A ban on the porn that is in distribution right now, yeah. That shit is fucked up. On average in one scene are 11 aggressive acts towards the woman (or women). When it starts being less violent (and you know that shit is violent and aggressive, don’t act like you don’t watch it) then it would be acceptable. Sexbots? Seriously if you want or need a sexbot, we don’t want you. Do your thing son. Better on them than on me.

    Mandatory Castration – Are you sure your not thinking of the church (and the patriarchy you so love)? They’re the ones messing with your dicks, not us. We argue against male and female genital mutilation (circumcision for you religious ones). Its fucked up and its values are mythical.

    Rape = Death penalty – You already said it, we’re liberal in philosophy and against capital punishment. Don’t make this so easy for me.

    Better pay – It is *better pay* because we ARE paid less than you guys, not that you would care because its not your problem right? Once again, we want equality not superiority.

    Legalized polygamy – I don’t even get what you’re saying here. You think we would want this? You know polygamy means more than one wife right? If a woman is dumb enough to let herself be exploited by a man who wants more than one wife, all power to her, seriously I don’t care.

    Ban on Paternity testing – I’ve read a lot of shit and I’ve never heard of this.. If you’ve seriously heard of it from feminists than I’m sorry, that is fucked up, you’re right. I think any serious and logical thinking feminist would understand that this is a breach of mens rights and be against it.

    Sexual Harassment laws expanded – Clear definitions are always good for laws in society & rights. I wouldn’t mind some expansion, but I’m not in the US – it may be different there. I actually think the laws are pretty effective except in the case of stalking (especially when its women trying to escape an abusive relationship). Over here, you pretty much have to be bashed or your life threatened explicitly before you can even get a restraining order (and women are often to scared to face the man in court to get one, because theres nothing stopping him yet).

    Anyway thats my opinion, sorry if it came off abrasive.

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  167. On average in one scene are 11 aggressive acts towards the woman (or women).

    Is not sex, by its very definition, an aggressive act by a man towards a woman?

    I guess in Feminist Utopia, we will have porn without sex!

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  168. @165, well, for a consulting fee of $30,000, tell me where you live, and I’ll research bars, the right stuff, square dating, social groups, and help you get started. B/c if you make 250+, are over the median male height, are “actually” physically fit, and STILL can’t make it happen, it’s time to pay up for results.

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  169. I believe the going rate for a bootcamp is $1500, not $30K.

    Mind you, I’ve considered the bootcamp route. I certainly could afford it.

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  170. I’m defining an aggressive act as what it was defined in with that particular study that I quoted the statistic from, so they counted an aggressive act as a slap, a bite, a kick, choking and so forth. It was a video, that I could link to if you like? It goes for an hour so you may not want to sit through it all.

    I don’t know what sex your having, but I don’t see sex as something that should be violent. And anti-porn doesn’t mean anti sex, although people confuse that a lot.

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  171. @169 Zorgon

    Careful: they’ll accuse you of using a patriarchal definition of sex, which is exactly the type they seek to outlaw. And no, it doesn’t. Andrea Dworkin ruled that it was perfectly okay for a man to have sex with a woman, as long as HE wasn’t excited. Feminism doesn’t know what to do about heterosexual women who enjoy P-in-V sex with men, because the theory breaks down at that point. “Orgasm with a man is…eroticizing her own oppression”–Sheila Jeffrys.

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  172. zorgon
    On average in one scene are 11 aggressive acts towards the woman (or women).

    Is not sex, by its very definition, an aggressive act by a man towards a woman?

    I guess in Feminist Utopia, we will have porn without sex!

    Um, recent “stuff” is very aggressive towards women. Look at movies from the mainstream movies 80’s and early 90’s and compare it to the mainstream stuff that is produced now there is big difference. Back then the couples looked like they really liked or at least respected one another, now the men often behave as if they hate women(Mr. Marcus aside). The overly aggressive and painful way which the actors handle women is the reason that some st8 women prefer to watch G.aY (2 men)stuff instead.

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  173. @171, This wouldn’t be bootcamp, (and don’t fat camps cost more than that?) but a personalized point plan. As the saying goes, “You can’t put a price on personal satisfaction” (but I’ll take 30 grand to get you there). And, let the man know where he can go to these bootcamps, at least as an initial alternative.

    Like


  174. LuLi: Choking? OK, apparently we aren’t watching the same porn. I would not consider choking to be a turn-on.

    My main objection to most of the porn I’ve seen is how fake it is. No one looks like they’re having any fun.

    Grace: I don’t know about fat camps. I’m talking about PUA bootcamps. If I linked to any particular ones I could be accused of shilling for a particular instructor/company/methodolody, so I think I’ll pass on that; interested parties can find plenty of PUA bootcamps with a simple web search.

    As for myself, I’m 6′, ~170, have a decent amount of muscle and not much fat, have a good pile of money, and all that has gotten me very little in terms of success with women. So, yes, if it worked, shelling out $1500 would be well worth it to me. I’m a little skeptical as to how well it would work, though, and whether I’d just regress back to old habits without the instructor egging me on. I’m still tempted, though. I’m making progress on my own, but if I could make progress faster with outside help, that would be a good thing.

    It’s kind of sad to have a society where there are lots of guys who basically have their lives together in most respects, but can’t get a woman; whereas there are plenty of guys whose lives are a complete train wreck and yet have more women than they know what to do with. The fact that these bootcamps are *needed* should tell us that there’s a problem.

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  175. 176 zorgon

    It’s kind of sad to have a society where there are lots of guys who basically have their lives together in most respects, but can’t get a woman; whereas there are plenty of guys whose lives are a complete train wreck and yet have more women than they know what to do with. The fact that these bootcamps are *needed* should tell us that there’s a problem.

    Yes. As another person who expects to have $250k years ahead of me (though, unlike you, I don’t have any behind me), I would be willing to pay far more than $1500 for a bootcamp that could all but guarantee achievement of my romantic goals. But I have no reason to believe they could do any such thing.

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  176. @zorgon-check out something with Mr. Marcus, Cuba and oBsession. The two guys are known for putting their costars at ease and Obsessi0n looked like she really enjoyed herself for the most part. OBsession has done stuff with Mr. Marcus and from what I’ve seen they look like a real couple.

    There is an Italian actor who is drop dead gorgeous(body is a 10++) but he is known for being rough with his costars. The two movies of his I watched, I was so turned off*. I don’t like the idea of a man slapping a woman for any reason. Belladonna is another one of the sickos. That woman’s self-esteem must be below the subway. Sometimes money is not enough. Mandingo, westly pipes, and lexington steele(not so much) disgust me too

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  177. As for myself, I’m 6′, ~170, have a decent amount of muscle and not much fat, have a good pile of money, and all that has gotten me very little in terms of success with women.

    Wow what does your face look like? Are you often called handsome? If other men compliment on your looks then you are indeed truly good-looking because most men(American) don’t hand out beauty compliments to other men.

    the Italian actor’s name is Rocko(?)

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  178. chic noir, check your email.

    I would find it rather creepy if a guy called me “handsome.”

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  179. Dude, paying 30+K would MAKE you want to ensure that that was money well-spent, and so you’d be more likely to actually stick with the program.

    How are you guys not succeeding? B/c as you’ve attested (if it is true), you’re good on paper. I’m going to assume that you’re both college educated, or at least business-oriented to be 1/4 mill a year and under 30 so….

    Relationships (or flings, which is what a lot of the men here are looking for), involve two people. Namely, if you want flings, you need to seem fun. If I’m throwing caution to the wind, I want a good time. If there’s too much pressure in a pick-up situation, or expectation, or you seem too nervous, (you being men in the general sense) my first thought is, “What is going on here, why DON’T you know how to flirt, etc…?”, because at this age, that level of awkardness should be gone. If it isn’t, I’m wondering what kind of problem may be present. After college, to be blunt, no woman wants to be some dude’s experiment or learning tool on the road to dating. I/most women dealt with all of that in high school and college, and if the skill set isn’t present at this age, it usually speaks to a larger issue. And most women will come up with the worst scenario possible that relates to her past experiences. So the thought process is PASS on THAT! And it is hard to get back in the game so to speak, once you’ve gotten the pass flag.

    Do you have shifty eyes? Too eager? Fidgety? How’s your voice? High and trembly, or low and modulating tones? Do you let your friends do the talking for you while you’re still in eyeshot (this is a BAD move if you don’t have the personality and looks to back it up) ? What about your friends and social set? Is anyone good-looking? Good talker? Do you eat out? Have you chatted up the bartenders? Waitresses? Go to your neighborhood bar, and if you don’t HAVE a neighborhood bar, cab to one. If you don’t have friends already who head out or know any women with whom you could possibly date, get to know your local wait staff at your favorite places. Find out where the industry guys go after their shift gets out. And then get yourself invited.

    Invest in a good cologne. (Fresh’s scents aren’t too heavy). Burberry for men is good for the fall. Creed is also good (Silver Mountain Water works well). Cool Water works.

    Learn to look just as good in ratty jeans and dirty T-shirt as you would in a suit. (Posture’s a bit different in each outfit).

    Any volunteer work (don’t knock it, great conversation starter)? Or just donate to something, like the Red Cross.

    Walk with your chest out, shoulders back and down, and roll on the balls of your feet. Don’t shuffle.

    Buy a pretty girl a drink, and then DON’T go over to talk to her, give a smile from the end of the bar, and go about your business (but don’t be unapproachable).

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  180. Grace: whoah, whoah, slow down there! Too many questions.

    I have zero desire for a relationship. Been there, done that. Anything beyond “friends with benefits” would be more commitment than I would want to deal with.

    I can’t speak for the other guy, but I think what you’re missing is that I was a social train wreck growing up. A woman who comes up with “worst scenario possible that relates to her past experiences” will probably badly *underestimate* how bad I was back in the day. I’ve fixed much of the worst stuff, but some women still have an uncanny way of lumping me into the geeky category.

    My friends are 100% male and 99% nerds. Mostly betas/omegas, with a few rare “alpha male nerds” here and there (they do exist). Some may well be worse socially than me at this point. These guys’ idea of fun is go over to each others’ houses and drink beer and play Rock Band. Sure, that may be fun, but I’m not going to meet any women doing that. Heck, I don’t play video games (except when hanging out with them) and I don’t even like computers that much any more. As a general trend, they are either married/all-but-married provider betas who don’t go out much, or single omegas/lesser betas who I wouldn’t want to be seen with in public (this would make me “king of the dorks”).

    Apparently I do at least sometimes pass the geek test. One girl some months back (she started giving me a BJ at her place and then freaked out partway through; nothing more came of it) asked me how many women I had been with, and I answered truthfully. She thought I was joking. “Come on, tell the truth, there’s no way… a decent-looking guy like you, at your age…”

    I’m 26. I’m very cheap right now because (1) my investments are WAY down this year and (2) I have no regular source of income: my business is not currently earning any money, at least yet. Anything that involves spending lots of money is out of the question for now. I eat out once a week and otherwise cook for myself at home. I live in an apartment with no roommates in a fairly suburban area. North Austin is not exactly where the young, attractive women hang out — it’s a 10-15 minute drive downtown to get to where things are happening. A “neighborhood bar” around here would definitely *not* be my kind of scene.

    And no, I’m not going to “buy a pretty girl a drink,” especially not without talking first. That would make me a chump.

    Like


  181. on October 30, 2008 at 10:26 pm misterdobalina

    My problems, Grace:

    1. I’m a big dork. (having game is a condition of being exactly who I am not)
    2. I dislike about 95% of the people I meet. (really, I can’t stand most women, and I can’t fake well enough to get laid)
    3. I live in Manhattan. (so 300K isn’t really deep in the money)
    4. I’m on the wrong side of thirty. (and I probably have a bit of a complex about it)
    5. My friends are bigger dorks than me. (bankers, mostly, who’d rather go to a strip club than try to actually pick up a girl)

    Like


  182. PLEASE tell me that you don;t consider wrong side of 30 to be OVER 30. Because if so, you are insane. And 300K is enough if you live in Manhattan. Hell, living in Manhattan alone should be enough to give you status.

    Like


  183. 181 Grace

    Zorgon is looking for flings or short-term relationships right now; I’m the reverse. The advice you’ve offered isn’t very relevant to me, though Zorgon may find bits and pieces of it to be useful. (Seeing as how I’m looking for a very smart and intellectually honest woman, and don’t care much for beauty, I’m pretty sure barhopping is not the right strategy for me.)

    Any volunteer work (don’t knock it, great conversation starter)? Or just donate to something, like the Red Cross.

    I’ve volunteered to help teach math to gifted high school students before… I suppose you could also count some free software I’ve written. And I’ve donated… to Steve Sailer, because I’m pretty sure he offers better bang for the buck than the likes of the Red Cross.

    Do these make good conversation starters? Not with most women.

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  184. Buy a pretty girl a drink, and then DON’T go over to talk to her, give a smile from the end of the bar, and go about your business (but don’t be unapproachable).

    I was with you until that one.

    Like


  185. on October 30, 2008 at 11:33 pm Comment_Citing_Your_Rights

    Typical Feminist wrote:
    ****
    Ban on Paternity testing – I’ve read a lot of shit and I’ve never heard of this.. If you’ve seriously heard of it from feminists than I’m sorry, that is fucked up, you’re right. I think any serious and logical thinking feminist would understand that this is a breach of mens rights and be against it.
    ****
    Here we witness the powerful technique where a person has a right, so long as the right means nothing.

    In Russia someone is held in contempt if “they have been reduced to citing their rights”.

    So, to the Feminist, yes, as I’m sure you know, men have the ‘right’ to a paternity test. But then the extra special super rules come into play. A Law is cited saying the paternity test ‘doesn’t matter’ because of some time limit, or piece of paper, or better yet, an ‘expectation of support’. Or maybe a feminist at Child Services simply decides they aren’t going to follow the law. Or maybe a ‘clerical error’ happens. Or maybe a judge says “I am the law”.

    A DNA testers speak honestly here, that proof that a child isn’t yours doesn’t necessarily mean much to the state:
    http://www.paternitynet.com/art31.html

    Slightly more than a quarter of US states stop child support if you prove the child isn’t yours! WOO-HOO!

    A Right without a Remedy! WOO-HOO!

    Like


  186. T saidI’m talking about white, straight men fighting for their rights as white, straight men

    What rights as white st8 men? What are my rights as a blk st8 female. MQ made a very valid point about the financial group.

    Like


  187. Grace post #181 was on the money

    Do you have shifty eyes? Too eager? Fidgety? How’s your voice? High and trembly, or low and modulating tones? Do you let your friends do the talking for you while you’re still in eyeshot (this is a BAD move if you don’t have the personality and looks to back it up) ? What about your friends and social set? Is anyone good-looking? Good talker?

    When a guy seems too nervous* & shifty I become fearful. Thoughts of a rapist, serial killer or pervert start entering into my mind**. The majority of women in my circle say the same or something very similar.

    If you look at the VH1 pickup artist show, as soon as one of the contestants behaves in an overly nervous manner, the women put distance between themselves and said contestant. It’s like a set of internal alarms go off inside of a woman’s head telling her to flee because of possible danger.

    Good-looking men attract women. Your better-looking friend may have first choice but you are bound to get some runoff if are at least presentable and you have a personality with the ability to draw women in.

    *Remember I like a little nervous.
    ** I’ve never gone off with a man I just met. I think I may be more paranoid than the average young woman when it comes to having something awful happen to me.

    Like


  188. <a http://www.soaps.com/guidinglight/actor/615/Daniel_Cosgrove

    <a http://www.soaps.com/daysofourlives/cast/703/Rafeal_%28Rafe%29

    <a http://www.soaps.com/daysofourlives/cast/562/Jeremy_Horton

    <a http://www.soaps.com/generalhospital/cast/319/Jasper_Jax_Jacks

    The four guys I linked to above are the type who can pull in a wide range of women. They have very masculine but at the same time very pretty faces. There was a study I read some time ago about how women choose feminine faced men for long-term and masculine faced men for short term relationships*. Agnostic will post a link to the study I’m writing about.

    I guess we can add Rob Loewe ,Jesse Metcalfe, hoish douch bag broody jenner, blk male model Garfield, Will Demps to the list.

    zorgon- I can’t open your pics for some reason.

    Like


  189. DoJ saidAnd I’ve donated… to Steve Sailer, because I’m pretty sure he offers better bang for the buck than the likes of the Red Cross

    😯

    *withdraws marriage proposal*
    *calls judge judy for the return of my ring*

    Like


  190. @181 Grace

    Basic basic. (But still useful.) Do all of that appropriately, and with 100 approaches you will get 1 girl of roughly the same appearance and same socio-economic class as you. Assuming you do everything linear right. Including knowing when to go non-linear. Game is so much more.

    You will also have the time to be grimly amused by rejection by ugly, nervous, socially-awkward women. The vag will bring the next guy along in 3 minutes, while you, well, you ARE some other woman’s next guy.

    Game is all about NOT being “the next guy.”

    Like


  191. 181 Grace:

    What about your friends and social set?

    What about them?

    In what ways do you size a man up by his social set?

    Like


  192. 188 Chic:

    I think I may be more paranoid than the average young woman when it comes to having something awful happen to me.

    You think?

    Like


  193. Typical Dick Says whatever about Paternity testing

    Excuse me mo, what exactly is your point? Are you arguing about human rights in Russia? What exactly are you trying to prove about paternity testing, coz that all just looked like a bunch of baseless speculation to me..

    Feminist values have absolutely nothing to do with paternity testing, you’re using a scare tactic thats based on nothing but propaganda to smear a cause, much like they do during your presidential campaigns. I think if feminists are such a big enemy to you boys it would probably pay to do a little research to back up the claims.. just sayin.

    I have a name, you don’t have to be so rude that you ignore it.

    Like


  194. ********
    Typical Dick Says whatever about Paternity testing

    Excuse me mo, what exactly is your point? Are you arguing about human rights in Russia? What exactly are you trying to prove about paternity testing, coz that all just looked like a bunch of baseless speculation to me..

    Feminist values have absolutely nothing to do with paternity testing, you’re using a scare tactic thats based on nothing but propaganda to smear a cause, much like they do during your presidential campaigns. I think if feminists are such a big enemy to you boys it would probably pay to do a little research to back up the claims.. just sayin.

    I have a name, you don’t have to be so rude that you ignore it.
    **********
    I like my last link, but I found an even better article.
    http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=guy.wisdom&category=family.guy&conitem=4a096f83c9821110VgnVCM10000013281eac____

    Here are some gems:
    Kentucky, married ‘father’:’Paternity’ is final once birth certificate is signed
    The same is true for 19 other states.

    A ‘fraud’ law has been added for a super-special rich and important exception. Proles without +100,000 dollars to spend on lawyers can bug off.

    Califonia, married ‘father’:’Paternity’ is final 2 years from birth; court can still deny ‘non-Paternity’ if not in child’s best interest
    Several other states as well.

    As for the first link, the professional opinion of DNA testers who perform the testing acording to the legal rules of evidence for the sole purpose of making the results admissable in court is hardly ‘speculation’.

    Next you’ll tell me carpenters don’t know anything about wood, or bricklayers about bricks, or plumbers about copper pipes.

    I quote from the site:
    *************
    “Richardson, with the help of DADS of Michigan founder Murray Davis, is lobbying for support of legislation that would offer relief, including requiring courts to nullify child support orders, where DNA tests have proven paternity fraud.

    Such a law would add Michigan—where more than a quarter of 2005’s nearly 10,000 out-of-wedlock DNA paternity tests were negative—to the list of at least a dozen states with similar legal protections. Georgia law, for instance, allows for termination of child support obligations for men with proof of non-paternity. Maryland has abolished the time limit for paternity challenges—a measure under consideration in many other states.”
    **************

    Now, I know LuLi need to play stupid because while LuLi doesn’t care about the male slave-animals, this particular topic makes them act as if they had feelings…

    Now we both know male slave-animals don’t have feelings, and should be punished when they fake them, but still, best not to push this particular point to hard. Probably would be a bad idea to revel in your fellow sisters amoral-whoreness.

    Like


  195. Nice, you got step 1 down, find some statistics.

    Now all you need to do is tie it to feminist theory. And I mean feminist theory, not just some nutbag extremists.

    I do prefer quotes with the linking, cheers mo!

    I did look at your link and it seems like you’re arguing that paternity fraud exists. I’m not stupid, I know women do this, but women don’t equal feminism. Theres actually a bit of distinction between us. And like I said before, this has nothing to do with us and everything to do with your cumbersome laws relating to the institution of families which is something you should be arguing with right wing christians about. They are the ones who don’t want to give you the easy route out of the typical nuclear family. Feminists reject this notion of ‘family’. It infringes on the right to be a lesbian, remember?

    And btw, I love that you’re trying to get an emotional response with the whole ‘male slave’ whatever, but honestly are you that wack you actually believe all feminists hate men? Me and my ‘fellow sisters’ are not all lesbians, we still have male partners, or in our families, male friends, male co-workers and most of the problems we blame on institutions, not the men themselves who simply live the way they were taught. We argue for teaching and endorsing a better way, not jailing men and torturing them.. What kind of liberal movement would we be then? This is about humanity, not just women being on top.

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  196. Thanks for reminding me why I hate feminists. I plan to vote for McCain now. Not that it’s going to do any good, but it’ll be fun to piss in the wind.

    Remember that betas hate feminists as much as alphas do, perhaps more. After all, it’s you guys they want to date.

    The paternity issue brings up a good question: should truly game-less, borderline Asperger types such as myself not date at all given the risks, or else play the other side of the street? Another man can’t sue me for child support.

    Like


  197. As if I care, I’m Australian. Do your thing, you’re living with it.

    Like


  198. @196

    Paternity really isn’t an issue if you use condoms with someone you trust not to “steal” your seed and inseminate herself. (Paternity is strict-liability, meaning the court doesn’t care how it got there.) Tom Leykis does suggest you pour Tabasco into any used condom you leave in a woman’s wastebasket. But you probably shouldn’t have sex with someone you can’t trust.

    I am very borderline-Aspie myself and had to train myself for years to get rid of social phobia and watch social cues, and the development of Game has been a godsend. You might only have relationships with women who are themselves odd, but nothing about being non-neurotypical prevents two people from working things out except totally untreated severe mental illness, and very very few (even of the ill) are that ill.

    Like


  199. Game sure does attract us Aspies, doesn’t it?

    Like


  200. I am also someone who makes more that $250K/year.

    And I also give money to Steve Sailer on a regular basis. I’m neither white nor American.

    Bootcamps are worth it. They slashed years off my learning curve.

    The most f’ed up thing about bootcamps is how high achieving most of the guys are there. The last one I went to (and it will be my last since I’ve gotten out of the game since) there were a handful of doctors, 2 lawyers, 2-3 millionaire business owners, and some average joe types. It beggars belief that these men can’t get in the serious relationships with the quality women that most of them want… but that’s what modern feminism has reduced them to: attending “bootcamps” so they can compete with the thugs and get up to speed with women who don’t value the time-honoured things that their grandmothers did.

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  201. SFG saidThe paternity issue brings up a good question: should truly game-less, borderline Asperger types such as myself not date at all given the risks, or else play the other side of the street? Another man can’t sue me for child support.

    use condoms! If your girlfriend is on birthcontrol-use condoms!

    Like


  202. zorgon
    Game sure does attract us Aspies, doesn’t it?

    Yes it does 🙂

    Like


  203. JAM: Interesting perspective on the bootcamps. Anyone else have any feedback on attending them? I’m hesitant to shell out the money this very moment, but once I have some steady income again I may have to seriously look into it.

    It beggars belief that these men can’t get in the serious relationships with the quality women that most of them want… but that’s what modern feminism has reduced them to: attending “bootcamps” so they can compete with the thugs and get up to speed with women who don’t value the time-honoured things that their grandmothers did.

    Interestingly, when I look at the females in my family, I come from a good lineup of high-achieving females, too — women who have some real substance to them. My mom is a PhD chemist with an MBA; in addition to raising us 3 boys, she’s worked a wide variety of jobs. She knows how to cook, values living a healthy lifestyle, is financially savvy, is well-informed about the world, etc.

    In turn, her mom (on top of raising 6 kids!) ran a boarding house for University of Minnesota students, which she took over from *her* mom.

    My brother’s wife is also an extremely high-achieving woman. A PhD/postdoc biologist who is obsessed with healthy living, physical fitness, and outdoor activities.

    I’ve found these kinds of women who value substance over style to be exceedingly rare. One of the reasons I’ve concluded that, for now, searching for an LTR is just not worth the trouble.

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  204. 203 zorgon

    I’ve found these kinds of women who value substance over style to be exceedingly rare.

    *sigh* yes. How did your brother meet her, anyway?

    Like


  205. DoJ: they met at Scripps Research Institute when he was a grad student and she was a postdoc there. I believe a mutual friend invited them along on a hiking trip.

    A random thought: how many women under age 30 appreciate classical music? There are uncultured women, and there are hipster SWPL women whose idea of culture is whatever’s trendy, but how many young women have an idea of culture that extends back past, say, 1960?

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  206. 203 zorgon

    I’ve found these kinds of women who value substance over style to be exceedingly rare.

    We’re not all that rare, but a lot of us aren’t raving beauties, which puts us immediately out of the running with 98% of men.

    176 zorgon

    It’s kind of sad to have a society where there are lots of guys who basically have their lives together in most respects, but can’t get a woman; whereas there are plenty of guys whose lives are a complete train wreck and yet have more women than they know what to do with. The fact that these bootcamps are *needed* should tell us that there’s a problem.

    And it’s equally sad that there are lots of unspectacular-looking women who basically have their lives together in most respects but can’t get a man; whereas there are plenty of hott women whose lives are a complete train wreck and yet have more men than they know what to do with…no matter how crappily they treat those men.

    The knife cuts both ways, guys. And we don’t get any bootcamps.

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  207. 203 zorgon
    That’s pretty impressive! The women in your family sound admirable in so many ways.

    For me, the hard part was finding a girl who wanted a large family and was accomplished and intelligent in her own right. I did manage to find one that all the important traits (pediatrician, classical dancer, intact and strong family, religious and spiritual without being overly so, wants four kids, sends me sweet txts for no reason) so I took her. She’s cute and fit, but not a raving beauty…. but I value her for her other attributes. We’re going to be married in a few months.

    206 Anonymous
    > The knife cuts both ways, guys. And we don’t get any bootcamps.

    You get all of modern Western jurisprudence. Wanna trade?

    Like


  208. 206 Anonymous

    And it’s equally sad that there are lots of unspectacular-looking women who basically have their lives together in most respects but can’t get a man; whereas there are plenty of hott women whose lives are a complete train wreck and yet have more men than they know what to do with…no matter how crappily they treat those men.

    The knife cuts both ways, guys. And we don’t get any bootcamps.

    Except that I don’t really care how the woman looks, and indeed I spent most of the last year focused on one most would rate as somewhere between plain and ugly. You’re implying that by relaxing my standards in this manner, I’d have no problem finding a good mate. My experience so far suggests that you’re very wrong, though obviously I’d like to see evidence to the contrary.

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  209. Anonymous: most young women who are not overweight are at least 6’s. 6’s are not “out of the running” for me. Nor even are 5’s. 4’s are where it starts to get questionable, but 4’s also tend to have a significant number of extra pounds.

    Mind you, I’m not looking for an LTR with them — but I’m not looking for an LTR with a 10, either. I’m just not looking for an LTR, period. Maybe in another 5 years or something, but not now.

    All that a 6 would have to do to virtually *guarantee* an approach from me would be to give me blatant eye contact with a smile. As long as she was able to carry on a vaguely interesting conversation and didn’t otherwise flake (e.g. if I call and leave a message, she needs to CALL BACK if she’s interested), she would be all set.

    there are lots of unspectacular-looking women who basically have their lives together in most respects but can’t get a man

    Is it that they can’t get a man… or is it that they can’t get a man to commit? I suspect it’s the latter.

    I’d be perfectly happy to have a casual fling with a 5 or 6. More than just a one-night stand, but if there was any hint that emotional commitment was involved, I’d be gone.

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  210. Paternity really isn’t an issue if you use condoms with someone you trust not to “steal” your seed and inseminate herself. (Paternity is strict-liability, meaning the court doesn’t care how it got there.) Tom Leykis does suggest you pour Tabasco into any used condom you leave in a woman’s wastebasket. But you probably shouldn’t have sex with someone you can’t trust

    Oh, I used to flush ’em down the toilet after use. I already heard about the sperm stealing case!

    Some of them bitched. I ignored them.

    Like


  211. anon 206 saidAnd it’s equally sad that there are lots of unspectacular-looking women who basically have their lives together in most respects but can’t get a man; whereas there are plenty of hott women whose lives are a complete train wreck and yet have more men than they know what to do with…no matter how crappily they treat those men.

    The knife cuts both ways, guys. And we don’t get any bootcamps.

    I tried to make this point with the men here but many of them don’t want to hear it.

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  212. congrats JAM 🙂

    zorgon saidbut 4’s also tend to have a significant number of extra pounds
    zorgon what is your idea of overweight? Are Beyonce and America Ferrai(UB) too chunky for you?

    <a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mVEGfH4s5g

    Like


  213. JAM saidYou get all of modern Western jurisprudence. Wanna trade?

    Why not:)

    You get to walk down the street anytime of the night without fear of some rapist or pervert attacking you. You rank almost last in the way violent criminals choose their victims women>children> men>elderly*. In the event that you are attacked, it is more of an even fight in contrast to me since the average man has 3x the upper body strength of the average woman*.
    Thank God for my height(5’9.5) and thick(size6-8) frame. I think that has helped deter crazies from trying me. I have friends who are 5 feet even and 100 lbs soaking wet and they have some strange stories when it comes to weird men.

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  214. sestambli said:There isn’t a female alive between the ages of 15 and 35 (see Gannon) who can’t find a sex partner ON DEMAND. Your premise is as insulting as it is outrageous

    DEAD
    *climbs in coffin*

    Sestambli, you are missing the point. She does not want only sex anon 236 wants a relationship. Women(as a group) are different. For the most part, constant sexual conquests* are not very fulfilling. We can use the examples of gay men vs. lesbians too fully understand how different the two genders are when it comes sex.*

    *I’m not saying that some women don’t like to experiment but sleeping with someone different every day of the week holds now special appeal to most women.


    One thing working in your favor is that looks, like intelligence, is distributed normally. That means that there are lots of 5’s and 6’s, and few 9’s and 10’s. But think of this too: there are also few 1’s and 2’s. Really, now–if you set out specifically to find a 1 or a 2 you would find it just as hard as finding a 10.

    Excellent point

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  215. >>JAM saidYou get all of modern Western jurisprudence. Wanna trade?

    > Why not:)

    AWESOME! I get first dibs on divorce law! To be nice, though, I won’t insist on Islamic divorce law. (Talaq, talaq, talaq!).

    Also, I’m with dougjnn — if a woman can abort I child I want to keep or bring to term a child I don’t want to have (and thus force me to pay child support for that child for 20 years), then I get to abort my financial responsibility if I so choose. After a mandatory paternity test, of course.

    Alternatively, I keep the child and get child support as a default position.

    And I’m going to have disagree with your ranking of crime at least with regards to rape. Rape frequency rises rapidly at 12 until about 17 or so. It then starts dropping precipitously. After 25-30, the likelihood of a woman being raped is near nil, though you do hear about the odd man-bites-dog stories about pensioners getting raped in burglaries.* What we need to do is protect children from their elders.

    I’m also reasonably sure that a plurality of physical violence is man-on-man, but I could stand corrected with a reasonable cite.

    * I tried to dig up the chart of this that was on gnxp (I believe) a while back, but I can’t seem to find it. Does anyone have the link?

    Like


  216. 207: You get all of modern Western jurisprudence. Wanna trade?

    Sign me up! If I’m going to live alone and stay celibate, I may as well do it being able to make more money and climb higher professionally on the basis of my intelligence and talent rather than looks or youth.

    208: You’re implying that by relaxing my standards in this manner, I’d have no problem finding a good mate. My experience so far suggests that you’re very wrong, though obviously I’d like to see evidence to the contrary.

    I’m not implying anything about your standards. I simply pointed out that for every decent guy who’s having a hard time finding a decent girl, there’s a decent girl having a hard time finding a decent guy. That you’re having difficulty finding us doesn’t mean we don’t exist.

    210: There isn’t a female alive between the ages of 15 and 35 (see Gannon) who can’t find a sex partner ON DEMAND. Your premise is as insulting as it is outrageous.

    This doesn’t become more true the more times you chant it, you know. I’m speaking as a plain-looking woman in her early 30s, and regardless of what Gannon says, the reality — and I say this as someone who’s actually living it, not theorizing about it — is not as you describe. Every trollish schmuck out there thinks he deserves a supermodel, and will blow off an honest, friendly, less-than-perfect girl so he can keep his options open for perfection in the form of a virgin hottie (surely just around the corner) who’s just dying to give him a blowjob, bake him a pie and have a bunch of his kids, requiring nothing thing of him in return. He’ll hold out forever, and when his dream-girl doesn’t come along, will bitterly blame all women for not living up to his fantasy.

    Guys like that are everywhere. You might even know some of them.

    And Chic is right: we weren’t talking about sex on demand — we were talking about finding a mate who values substance over style.

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  217. 215, 217

    Yes, but the advantage of being able to get it on demand also brings the opportunity to choose, and there are plenty of men who aren’t in tune with the premise of the site either.

    You will never have the substance if you toss aside man after man because he wore the wrong color shirt or (gasp!) voted for McCain or Bush, and all the other trivial bullshit I’ve heard. And you sure as hell will never have the substance if you think you’re just as desirable at 35 as you were at 20.

    Before I met my wife I averaged about one date per year over the prior ten. These were not giggly teen-aged cockteasers, but grown women in their thirties who thought so. This didn’t surprise me because they had self-selected themselves. Women who get married early and have kids on time just plain settle, and those who won’t will live alone and have no regrets about it.

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  218. Anon 217 saidThis doesn’t become more true the more times you chant it, you know. I’m speaking as a plain-looking woman in her early 30s, and regardless of what Gannon says, the reality — and I say this as someone who’s actually living it, not theorizing about it — is not as you describe. Every trollish schmuck out there thinks he deserves a supermodel, and will blow off an honest, friendly, less-than-perfect girl so he can keep his options open for perfection in the form of a virgin hottie (surely just around the corner) who’s just dying to give him a blowjob, bake him a pie and have a bunch of his kids, requiring nothing thing of him in return. He’ll hold out forever, and when his dream-girl doesn’t come along, will bitterly blame all women for not living up to his fantasy.

    This is so true of many of the guys who comment here. I want you get a name so I can stop calling you anon. Anon you remind me of former commenter Elizabeth. I wonder what happened to Elizabeth, I think she ran off with Mu.

    sestamibi
    Yes, but the advantage of being able to get it on demand also brings the opportunity to choose, and there are plenty of men who aren’t in tune with the premise of the site either
    Choose a partner for the night yes, a husband no.

    Like


  219. 217 Anonymous

    …I’m speaking as a plain-looking woman in her early 30s, and regardless of what Gannon says, the reality — and I say this as someone who’s actually living it, not theorizing about it — is not as you describe. Every trollish schmuck out there thinks he deserves a supermodel, and will blow off an honest, friendly, less-than-perfect girl so he can keep his options open for perfection in the form of a virgin hottie (surely just around the corner) who’s just dying to give him a blowjob, bake him a pie and have a bunch of his kids, requiring nothing thing of him in return. He’ll hold out forever, and when his dream-girl doesn’t come along, will bitterly blame all women for not living up to his fantasy.

    …we were talking about finding a mate who values substance over style.

    If this is really what you are looking for, I am interested in getting to know you.

    219 chic noir

    I wonder what happened to Elizabeth, I think she ran off with Mu.

    Well, Mu will be back soon enough; I’m just waiting for his final confirmation on the name of our upcoming group blog. 🙂 Elizabeth… we’ll have to wait and see about her.

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  220. 209 zorgon

    One thing working in your favor is that looks, like intelligence, is distributed normally. That means that there are lots of 5’s and 6’s, and few 9’s and 10’s. But think of this too: there are also few 1’s and 2’s. Really, now–if you set out specifically to find a 1 or a 2 you would find it just as hard as finding a 10.

    206 Anon

    Are you serious “And we don’t get any bootcamps”???!?!

    There isn’t a female alive between the ages of 15 and 35 (see Gannon) who can’t find a sex partner ON DEMAND. Your premise is as insulting as it is outrageous.

    I got married late in life, and had to put up with major shit for many years because I wasn’t quite perfect. I really grieve for younger men who have to put up with it with even more intensity and enhanced technology available to women with which to humiliate them (voice mail and e-mail not responded to, etc.)

    In the years to come, feminism will indeed have the impacts of which he speaks. He is right when he talks about the West returning to a primitive state of nature. Only it won’t be slowly, it will be in the next twenty years. And it will be more like 80% and not 60% of men getting no pussy at all.

    Like


  221. LuLi:

    As a non-US feminist you may be forgiven for being a bit ill-educated about what feminism IS at least in practice as oppposed to theory:

    First, concerning the “man tax”.

    Apparently it didn’t pass, but it was indeed proposed by a living, breathing, relatively powerful and respected feminist:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gudrun_Schyman
    And easy to google more about the specific proposal.

    Thought crimes:
    In America the vast majority of professed feminists (feminism is a dirty word here) support not only the Democratic party but what we call “hate crimes” legislation, legislation which increases penalties if there seems to be any motive based on prejudice at all. Sounds good, except that this motive is often ASSUMED and that not every group gets the “extra” protections. Insofar as the work environment, courts have constantly ruled that speech crosses the line into discrimination based solely on the impression on the complainent. Instead of “Reasonable person”, “Reasonable woman” don’t you know. Both the 3rd prong of the 3 prong harrasment model and the concept of punishing murderers diferent depending on their motives are examples of thought crimes and both enjoy feminist support here.

    Ban on porn:

    In the US, at least, we have two competing camps: sex positive feminists and sex negative ones. You obviously fall into the ‘negative’ one if you are inclined to believe a single study rather than investigating for yourself.

    Here’s an example of a sex positive feminist:
    http://renegadeevolution.blogspot.com/

    And a sex negative one:
    http://doingfeminism.com/2008/03/22/biting-beavers-rapist-checklist/
    Biting beaver was a rad fem who got “run off the internet” by 4chan’s “anonymous” after she made a post wondering if she should hate her potentially rapist to be son. His crime? At 13, he was looking at porn. I fear for the kids mental sanity. That damn EVIL male sexual urge!

    Note also that this “radical” definition of rape would fit square in with his “death toe rapists” comment. Redefine the word, and we have far more people going to the executioners room. As an example of real world application of the more nutty elements of the checklist you might wish to check this out:

    http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article1572898.ece

    And note that BOTH had been drinking! Here’s some “real world” feminism for you! Man and woman both drunk and only the man is responsible. Disgusting this guy spent years in jail. As for the woman that brat either needs the spanking of a lifetime or better yet the removal of her rights to do autononomous things as an adult as she is obviously incapable of making her own choices.

    I will agree with you that the majority of self described feminists here in the US *and probably UK* are against the death penalty.

    Equal pay?

    The wage gap is a myth. That is, when women do the exact same jobs as men they get the exact same wage.

    One could write a book detailing studies about this, indeed, Warren Farrel has:

    http://www.amazon.com/Why-Earn-More-Warren-Farrell/dp/B001EJZHM2/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225468606&sr=1-24

    Most of the lifetime gap between men and women in the workplace is due to women’s choices, not discrimination.

    Anyway, here is a thread about feminism over on the *and it sounds scarier than it is* feminist critics blog:

    http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2008/10/18/are-we-feminists/

    It asks the question and answers it in a surprising way. I’m not sure you will like the answer as to what “feminism” is in most of the western world, but there you go.

    Lastly, behold the glory of male reproductive rights in a “patriarchy”:

    http://www.childsupportguidelines.com/articles/art199903.html

    Basically, we have none.

    Anyway, I’m sure to you feminism is all about equality and etc. I used to believe that two, back when I was a teen and young man. But that’s not what the modern western movement is about, not at all, and all you have to do is note that most feminist groups (not blogs, not individuals, but the political groups) are against shared parenting.

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  222. Oh thanks Doj for the info :). Is there a love connectionforming here??? Is my darling Doj going to leave me??

    Like


  223. chic noir:

    Are Beyonce and America Ferrai(UB) too chunky for you?

    Beyonce overweight? Say what???

    I’m talking about girls who have a serious pile of blubber hanging off of their midsection. I see all too many who aren’t all that old and yet have at least a good 30 pounds, sometimes more, extra on, let’s say, a 5’2″ frame — say, 160-170 lbs, which is just barely below what I weigh at slightly above 6′ (I’m ~170). It’s pretty disgusting. If they’re that bad in their 20s, can you imagine how bad it’s going to get when they’re 40 and married?

    Anonymous:

    Every trollish schmuck out there thinks he deserves a supermodel, and will blow off an honest, friendly, less-than-perfect girl so he can keep his options open for perfection

    I have never observed anything even remotely close to this. I frequently observe girls who are 3s and 4s getting a huge amount of male attention.

    As for myself, if a girl is a 5 or higher, I’m extremely unlikely to blow her off on account of her looks. I don’t blow off women frequently. Women do blow me off frequently.

    The rejections I get definitely don’t have anything to do with my unwillingness to commit. It’s only in the last few months that I started really following this blog, etc., and I rapidly became convinced that I do *NOT* want to get married. The rejections tend to happen long before that would even become an issue.

    Note that if a girl does not return a voicemail, I consider that a rejection. A “The Rules” girl will not get very far with me.

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  224. As a woman living in Sweden, I broadly agree that the pendulum on feminism in Sweden has swung too far (Hofstede’s cultural indices proves some in this aspect), with mainstream bordering on radical these days. But this trend has not gone unnoticed by Swedish women themselves, as some recent PhD work from Gothenburg University has shown.

    Political feminism, when taken to the extreme, infests the very foundation of cooperative relationships. Women are ingrained by hegemonic feminist political ideology to pitch themselves against other women and men alike. A non-constructive, perhaps even long term destructive approach to the continued building of a collaborative social fabric.

    As a feminist linguist myself, I have yet to find a corresponding word to “feminism” in the literature. Best I have arrived at is “men’s movement” or “men’s studies” (works by Kimmel for example) which have a slightly different angle of study.

    Cheryl M. Cordeiro

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  225. 218: You will never have the substance if you toss aside man after man because he wore the wrong color shirt or (gasp!) voted for McCain or Bush, and all the other trivial bullshit I’ve heard. And you sure as hell will never have the substance if you think you’re just as desirable at 35 as you were at 20.

    I totally agree. But there are those of use who have never, and I mean never, done this in our lives, primarily because it’s shallow and rude, but also because having multiple men at our disposal is no more a realistic option than leaping off a building and expecting to fly. There are those of us who were never terribly physically desirable even at 20, so it’s not like we ever got used to basking in male attention. We skewed to substance over style very early on, but that’s a niche market, at best, and growing moreso all the time.

    Everyone has to do the best they can with what they’ve got. I can’t be taller, I can’t be brown-eyed, there’s nothing I can do about being in my 30s; if you want a tall, brown-eyed, 20-year-old then have at it. If all men want a tall, brown-eyed, 20-year-old (chic noir, you’re up!) then I’m SOL. Well OK, that stinks on ice, but I’m not going to throw myself from a tall building or spend the rest of my life torturing myself because I’m not enough of a dreamboat. Life goes on. Not every pot gets a lid, you know?

    220: If this is really what you are looking for, I am interested in getting to know you.

    You sound like a rare one, indeed. I, however, am on indefinite hiatus from the whole pair-bonding thing. I just can’t see trusting anyone after the last colossal waste of my time, effort money & heart, and I don’t know if I ever will again.

    222: I have never observed anything even remotely close to this. I frequently observe girls who are 3s and 4s getting a huge amount of male attention.

    Perhaps it varies a great deal by location, but I’ve sure never seen that! I see unremarkable guys constantly on the prowl for Something Better, and ignoring perfectly nice, interesting & interested women in the process. But our not seeing the other’s experiences also might be a shared blindness to the others’ POV. Men and women don’t really discuss this stuff openly with each other, so neither is really aware of the hurdles the other faces.

    As for myself, if a girl is a 5 or higher, I’m extremely unlikely to blow her off on account of her looks.

    Then you’re also a rare find. I hope you find someone worthy.

    The rejections I get definitely don’t have anything to do with my unwillingness to commit. It’s only in the last few months that I started really following this blog, etc., and I rapidly became convinced that I do *NOT* want to get married. The rejections tend to happen long before that would even become an issue.

    Can’t say I blame you. I’m increasingly convinced that I never want to get married, either.

    Note that if a girl does not return a voicemail, I consider that a rejection. A “The Rules” girl will not get very far with me.

    I think game-playing like The Rules is absolutely ridiculous, but I’m hardly one to judge. If it gets them the results they want then I guess it works for them, so who am I to criticise?

    Like


  226. How did you get the idea that men prefer brown eyes? IMO brown eyes are a big minus.

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  227. 225: It was just a hastily-chosen example, not any kind of belief.

    Like


  228. 205 zorgon

    DoJ: they met at Scripps Research Institute when he was a grad student and she was a postdoc there. I believe a mutual friend invited them along on a hiking trip.

    Oddly enough, my ex worked at Scripps Research Institute before as well. Guess I should make more of an effort to meet biologists (though this time, I should screen out the crazy ones…).

    217 Anonymous

    I simply pointed out that for every decent guy who’s having a hard time finding a decent girl, there’s a decent girl having a hard time finding a decent guy. That you’re having difficulty finding us doesn’t mean we don’t exist.

    There is nothing guaranteeing that for every “decent” guy there is a “decent” girl, or vice versa, unless “decent” is meaningless…

    224 Anonymous

    You sound like a rare one, indeed. I, however, am on indefinite hiatus from the whole pair-bonding thing. I just can’t see trusting anyone after the last colossal waste of my time, effort money & heart, and I don’t know if I ever will again.

    …and, let’s just say that it’s no longer clear whether you are actually a “decent” girl. If your problem really was valuing men of substance but not getting attention from them because of plain looks, you would unquestionably want to get to know “rare ones” even during a hiatus, since that would vastly improve your position if/when the hiatus ever ended.

    What does calling me a “rare one” and then expressing disinterest say about how much your words can be trusted?

    Like


  229. Hazel eyes are the best.

    Thus Spake Tupac.

    Like


  230. 224 Anon

    Sorry, but I think you’re full of shit. I’m a lot older than you with a lot more sad experience to the contrary (luckily with a happy ending).

    225 jaakkeli

    Hey, it was good enough for Van Morrison, no?

    Like


  231. Anon 224, she how fast the men here turn on you if you don’t dance to their tune.
    SMH

    Like


  232. DoJ: Biology was one of the more popular majors for girls at MIT. I think it was one of the rare few to have more than 50% women. (My major, CS, was at the other end of the spectrum, right up there with physics.)

    If these supposedly decent girls who can’t find a man exist, just send them my way. I’m just skeptical of their existence.

    And I agree, no one single is ever completely “not looking.” You may not be actively looking, but if something really good came along, you’d go for it, right?

    Like


  233. On Legalized Polygamy …

    … what Whiskey said in post 42 plus biology.

    Monogamy and polygamy aren’t just cultural traits and don’t have just cultural effects. There are real, biological outcomes that need to be taken into consideration.

    A population with wide-spread polygamy will necessarily have a narrower gene (allele) pool than a population practicing a greater degree of monogamy — obviously because fewer men will be passing on their genes, the variety of genes (alleles) in the population will be fewer. Another way of looking at it is that or more people will be more closely related to each other than in a monogamous society.

    The problem, then, is how the levels of genetic relatedness within a polygamous population would affect the behaviors of the individuals of that population, both toward their fellows and toward outsiders.

    Whiskey said in post 42: “Social unrest in Muslim countries is mostly due to polygamy, and the inability of men to find wives.”

    No (but yes, a bit). Social unrest in Muslim countries is not due mostly to polygamy — rather, it is mostly due to the levels of inbreeding in those countries (i.e. very high levels of cousin marriage):

    http://www.isteve.com/cousin_marriage_conundrum.htm

    Inbreeding over generations within extended families leads to “tribal” behaviors between these families (think Hatfields and McCoys for an American example). Since polygamy does add to the inbreeding in a way (only a few males get to pass their genes on, thus narrowing the gene pool), the practice likely also contributes to social unrest between the “tribes”.

    Don’t know what the behavioral effects a polygamous society without the cousin marriage (or other inbreeding) would be — the two very typically go together. I would think it would lead to some degree of “tribal” behavior within the society, which is basically the social unrest that Whiskey talked about.

    Institutionalized polygamy should be avoided for a stable society. Informal polygamy — probably not a big problem, especially if other forms of inbreeding are avoided.

    Of course, if one doesn’t care about the structure of society and how stable or not it is, then this argument doesn’t apply. However, since the Great Game of Life is about passing on the greatest number of your genes to the next and future generations, then perhaps one should be concerned about creating/maintaining a stable society.

    Then again, there’s always the Genghis Khan approach:

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_6_163/ai_97997816

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  234. 232: …and, let’s just say that it’s no longer clear whether you are actually a “decent” girl. If your problem really was valuing men of substance but not getting attention from them because of plain looks, you would unquestionably want to get to know “rare ones” even during a hiatus, since that would vastly improve your position if/when the hiatus ever ended.

    I don’t believe the hiatus is ever going to end, dude. I’ve given up, removed myself from the market, am no longer even entertaining the notion. That’s not about you. And it hasn’t a single thing to do with my decency or lack thereof.

    If you are truly as you describe yourself, you are rare, and I meant that as a compliment. If you want to take it differently than it was intended, that’s entirely on you.

    234: Sorry, but I think you’re full of shit. I’m a lot older than you with a lot more sad experience to the contrary (luckily with a happy ending).

    224 was chic noir, not me. But if you were referring to me: well, OK, you’re entitled to your opinion. Your lack of belief isn’t going to render me nonexistent.

    235: too true, chic!

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  235. (I’m “DoJ”, but I’ll be posting under “Chris” from now on.)

    239 Anonymous

    I don’t believe the hiatus is ever going to end, dude. I’ve given up, removed myself from the market, am no longer even entertaining the notion. That’s not about you. And it hasn’t a single thing to do with my decency or lack thereof.

    If you are truly as you describe yourself, you are rare, and I meant that as a compliment. If you want to take it differently than it was intended, that’s entirely on you.

    Actions speak louder than words.

    Zorgon and I have frequently had the misfortune of encountering women who claim we are valuable, but don’t actually have any interest in us. Not only that, they don’t bother to introduce us to their friends, either.

    There is a principle in economics called “revealed preference.” According to it, such women, including you, actually place no real value on us. Which, by itself, is understandable; we’re just strangers you’ve never met, after all. But DON’T insult our intelligence by “complimenting” us. The only compliments that mean anything to us are the ones supported by action.

    The rare woman who figures out and admits what they really think at least gets our respect, and the other things she says gain far more credibility. You? You’ve basically disproven all the points you were trying to make earlier. How can there be a “decent girl for every decent guy” if you’re at all typical of decent girls, and you’re taking yourself entirely off the market in your early 30s? I assure you that guys like me do not give up anywhere near that early.

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  236. As for guys giving up in their early 30s, there are some guys who do that. The spectacularly unsuccessful ones, mostly. The older they get, the more they think of themselves as damaged goods, and the more women think of them the same way. Sometimes they truly stop trying because they believe there is no chance anything good can come from it. As a guy, “not trying” virtually guarantees failure. At least a girl can sit back and wait for approaches, and as long as you give out your phone # and say “yes” to offers of dates, you don’t have to do very much to meet men. You may not be able to get them to commit, but that’s another story.

    I was worried I was on this “damaged goods” path a few years back. Repeated failure with women does serious damage to a guy’s self-esteem, even for someone like me who tends to have high natural self-esteem and who rarely gets bogged down in negative feelings. Intellectually I may be pessimistic about many things, say, a Barack Obama presidency, but emotionally I know that my life will continue on just fine.

    I wonder what percentage of 30-year-old virgins die a virgin.

    Like


  237. Chris: I’ve fallen into the “pen pal” trap before. I would not recommend it. It had all the downsides of a relationship (time sink, prevented me from shopping around for other girls, emotional pain when it failed) with none of the upsides.

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  238. 244 zorgon

    Chris: I’ve fallen into the “pen pal” trap before. I would not recommend it. It had all the downsides of a relationship (time sink, prevented me from shopping around for other girls, emotional pain when it failed) with none of the upsides.

    Understood, but for the next year and a half or so, the alternative is to meet Californian girls. I’m not sure which is the lesser of the two evils.

    Like


  239. Real is always better than online. And if you do meet people online, it has to be a priority to meet in person ASAP. No endless emailing back and forth.

    You won’t always be in school. Take advantage of the opportunities school presents for as long as you can. I wish I had.

    To those who say that online allows you to “screen” girls better for desirable personality traits: I’m doubtful. Online you can pretend to be whoever you want. A quick look through the profiles on any dating site should convince you that the profiles have little value. They all say the same things. (The stereotypical “I like long walks on the beach.” Well, at least in Austin you know if they say that it’s a fake because it’s a long ways to the nearest beach.) It’s in person that someone’s real personality comes out.

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  240. Chris saidNot only that, they don’t bother to introduce us to their friends, either.
    Don’t read into that^^^. Many women don’t introduce men to their female friends for fear one of them could take him away.

    Zorgon said Although, now I think that’s just how the West Coast is — in California, strangers are not very friendly to one another
    Wow, I would of thought the opposite.

    I’ve also heard NYC is like that
    NYC is like that because some women are chasing a Mr. Big from Wall St.

    I wonder what percentage of 30-year-old virgins die a virgin
    Better to die of old age than AIDS.

    Understood, but for the next year and a half or so, the alternative is to meet Californian girls
    Or me 🙂
    How old are you btw?

    Like


  241. Chris: while I find Anonymous’s decision to “remove herself from the market” mysterious at best (and I have my doubts as to whether this is truthful: again, if something good came along, you’d take it, right?), let’s be real: I have no illusions that I’m going to meet a woman through the blog! The most I would realistically hope for is to meet a wing. About 0.5% of the US population lives in the Austin metro area. This blog and its commenters are urban-centric, though, so not a lot of Texans here.

    As far as there being a guy for every girl and vice versa, I think whiskey questioned this over at his blog, saying that there are more boys than girls at young ages (before longer female life expectancy kicks in, and even ignoring the China problem with the one-child policy, or the impact of immigration). Further, if we assume that most guys are usually looking for someone the same age or younger, whereas girls are usually looking for someone the same age or older — this sets up a dynamic where young guys and old women are disadvantaged. If a guy age 25 is looking for girls age 20-25, some of those girls may have been snatched up by guys age 30, leaving behind fewer prospective targets. His competition is not guys age 20-25, it’s guys age 20-40.

    Also depends a lot on where you live. In some places there really are a lot more guys due to migration patterns. The Bay Area is the stereotypical example: it’s been flooded with an endless influx of computer guys. In the Bay Area, women who are rather ordinary don’t just have their pick of (often very rich) suitors… many also seemed to have an attitude problem, that because there are so many more guys out there, it’s OK for them to treat guys like shit. Although, now I think that’s just how the West Coast is — in California, strangers are not very friendly to one another. (As if California didn’t have enough going against it economically and politically, it’s also a culturally undesirable place to live.)

    All those guys move from somewhere, so it would stand to reason that there are places with ratios tipped in the opposite direction. Several commenters here have said DC also has a high ratio of single women to single men. I’ve also heard NYC is like that.

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  242. 241 zorgon

    let’s be real: I have no illusions that I’m going to meet a woman through the blog!

    Yes…

    so it would stand to reason that there are places with ratios tipped in the opposite direction. Several commenters here have said DC also has a high ratio of single women to single men. I’ve also heard NYC is like that.

    …but I’ve explicitly chosen a career path that gives me the ability to take advantage of this and seize any “geographic arbitrage” opportunity that arises. I’m in California now, but I would prefer not to stay here for the reasons you describe. So it’s worthwhile for me to get to know the unattached women of substance I run into, almost regardless of distance.

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  243. 240: How can there be a “decent girl for every decent guy” if you’re at all typical of decent girls, and you’re taking yourself entirely off the market in your early 30s?

    I didn’t say there was a decent girl FOR every guy, like, a perfect match out there waiting! I said that for every guy who’s having a hard time finding someone of quality, there’s a girl having similar difficulty, i.e. a lot of women, despite popular opinion around here, do not get to just sit back and wait for likely prospects to come to them. I never said anything about them being guaranteed to meet.

    And I never said anything about me being representative or typical. I said decent women exist. That doesn’t mean they’ll all make the same choices. Sheesh.

    we’re just strangers you’ve never met, after all.

    Yes, which is why it’s odd that you take it so personally.

    But DON’T insult our intelligence by “complimenting” us.

    Yes, that was dreadful of me, to hazard expressing a vaguely positive sentiment like that. Forgive me. Look, if you consider it an insult to your intelligence, you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. If I somehow offended you, I do apologise, but you might also want to look into getting over yourself just a little.

    241: and I have my doubts as to whether this is truthful: again, if something good came along, you’d take it, right?

    No, not anymore. I don’t have time, energy, or money to be squandering in pursuit of a pipe-dream with such lousy odds.

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  244. you would have no problem landing a single guy who values substance over style in San Jose even if you have plain looks; you just can’t be an unrepentant warpig. (Even then, who knows.) If moving isn’t practical, there are ex-programmers like me who would like to actually start a family at some point and are willing to relocate essentially anywhere to make that possible.

    Agree 100%. There is a literally endless pool of such “provider beta” guys in the Bay Area.

    Anonymous, let me issue you a challenge. Post a (real) ad on the Bay Area Craigslist w4m section. If you don’t live there, just say that you don’t live there but that you’re interested in a long-distance “pen pal” relationship (the exact kind I just earlier said I have no patience for) that might turn into something more later. Let’s see how many replies you get. I’d bet that you will get a number of replies from *very* eligible men who are willing to jump through any number of hoops to even have the *chance* to have a “provider beta” relationship with you.

    Oh, sure, you’ll get the random penis picture too in the replies, but we can ignore those and count serious replies only.

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  245. zorgon:

    in California, strangers are not very friendly to one another.

    wtf?
    have you ever been to, inter alia, new york, boston, miami, chicago, detroit, providence, or philadelphia?

    i think austin is skewing your perspective on the reality of most of the united states, as louisville once did mine.

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  246. I lived in Boston for 4 years for school, and I’ve been back a few times since. California is definitely the odd man out as far as peoples’ openness to interacting with people outside their immediate social circle.

    My brother currently lives in DC, formerly lived in SF and San Diego, and has made the exact same observation independently: East Coast people are more open to interactions with strangers than are West Coast people.

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  247. 247 chicnoir

    Don’t read into that^^^. Many women don’t introduce men to their female friends for fear one of them could take him away.

    You’re ignoring the context. Yes, if they didn’t introduce me to their friends, but they tried to get to know me themselves, that could have positive implications. But that’s not what’s happening. They’re mouthing platitudes that they demonstrably do not believe, and that’s offensive.

    Or me 🙂
    How old are you btw?

    I’m 29. I’ve been scared of you ever since you threw Judge Judy at me, though; that wasn’t fun.

    248 Anonymous

    Yes, which is why it’s odd that you take it so personally… Yes, that was dreadful of me, to hazard expressing a vaguely positive sentiment like that. Forgive me. Look, if you consider it an insult to your intelligence, you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. If I somehow offended you, I do apologise, but you might also want to look into getting over yourself just a little.

    See above. I have essentially no tolerance for empty platitudes or pretty lies. Neither do several of the other local denizens (note the blog subtitle).

    I’m not taking it personally — you’ve already demonstrated that you’re quite a bit below the caliber of former commenters Elizabeth and Hope, so any disinterest is mutual. What I am doing is highlighting the fact that, when you were given an actual choice, you behaved exactly as H would have predicted, and against what your earlier blog comments would have predicted. You have discredited your own claims, and others see this even if you aren’t willing to admit it.

    No, not anymore. I don’t have time, energy, or money to be squandering in pursuit of a pipe-dream with such lousy odds.

    You have not justified your “lousy odds” claim, and in fact, I’m certain it’s wrong. As Zorgon said, you would have no problem landing a single guy who values substance over style in San Jose even if you have plain looks; you just can’t be an unrepentant warpig. (Even then, who knows.) If moving isn’t practical, there are ex-programmers like me who would like to actually start a family at some point and are willing to relocate essentially anywhere to make that possible.

    Either you are somehow ignorant of the plight of these nerds, in which case you’d do well to learn about it and discover that what you’re depicting as a pipe-dream is actually very much within your reach; or you are being dishonest, don’t value these faithful and smart and industrious men, and know that an awful lot of other “decent” girls don’t either. In both cases, your claims of parity between men and women in this context have little credibility (though in the first case, you could acknowledge your ignorance, and then probably proceed to achieve your “pipe-dream”).

    And no, this is not misogyny on my part. I never attacked Elizabeth in this manner, because she was intellectually honest and backed up her words with her actions.

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  248. Chris saidI’m 29. I’ve been scared of you ever since you threw Judge Judy at me, though; that wasn’t fun

    Are you joking? Are you afraid of Judge Judy?

    Like


  249. 249: See above. I have essentially no tolerance for empty platitudes or pretty lies. Neither do several of the other local denizens (note the blog subtitle).

    It was an observation. Not a platitude, not a lie. IF you actually behave the way you claimed to do, then you are unusual. Or to put it another way, rare. It was not intended as an insult. It was not an assessment of you as a person, since you are a complete stranger. It was an observation made on the basis of your statement. If you took it the wrong way, that’s neither my fault nor my problem. It still has bupkes to do with my decency or credibility.

    What I am doing is highlighting the fact that, when you were given an actual choice, you behaved exactly as H would have predicted, and against what your earlier blog comments would have predicted. You have discredited your own claims, and others see this even if you aren’t willing to admit it.

    This is a comment section on a blog. There are no “actual choices” here! I’ve related my own experiences. If you disbelieve, well, OK. That doesn’t suddenly change the past.

    You have not justified your “lousy odds” claim, and in fact, I’m certain it’s wrong.

    There’s nothing to justify. It wasn’t a claim: that’s been my personal experience. The odds are lousy! The results of getting into relationships are most emphatically not worth the time, effort, money & emotion invested. YMMV.

    If moving isn’t practical, there are ex-programmers like me who would like to actually start a family at some point and are willing to relocate essentially anywhere to make that possible.

    Not interested in starting a family, and will not pull a bait & switch on someone who is.

    Either you are somehow ignorant of the plight of these nerds, in which case you’d do well to learn about it and discover that what you’re depicting as a pipe-dream is actually very much within your reach; or you are being dishonest, don’t value these faithful and smart and industrious men, and know that an awful lot of other “decent” girls don’t either. In both cases, your claims of parity between men and women in this context have little credibility (though in the first case, you could acknowledge your ignorance, and then probably proceed to achieve your “pipe-dream”).

    I’ve dated nerds almost exclusively. I vastly prefer them, which is why I’m amused by all the blathering here about women only wanting alphas. I’m very familiar with their plight, as it’s so similar to my own. WHICH WAS THE POINT OF MY POST IN THE FIRST PLACE! But “nerd” does not automatically equal “saint”, and you’re off your rocker if you think they’re all faithful, admirable paragons of virtue.

    Look, I posted to let you know that some of us on the other team have similar problems, despite the well-worn tales here of how easy women have it. If you don’t believe that, fine. It’s not my job to convince you. It does often seem like the commenters here actually dig the victim mentality and the divisiveness it creates. If you want to treat all women as The Enemy who couldn’t possibly understand anything you’ve gone through, go right ahead, but I doubt such defensiveness and hostility will serve you all that well in the long run.

    Are you this argumentative in real life? That’s probably a much bigger strike against you than any amount of nerdiness could possibly be.

    250: I’d bet that you will get a number of replies from *very* eligible men who are willing to jump through any number of hoops to even have the *chance* to have a “provider beta” relationship with you.

    Until they see that I’m not the 8+ they think they deserve, that is, nor interested in a no-strings sexual arrangement. And until you can verify that they actually want a relationship, what does measuring the responses prove? Is it not true that guys will say pretty much anything at all if there’s even a remote possibility that it will eventually lead to them getting pussy? That’s been suggested in these comments, and if that’s true, then no amount of Craigslist responses mean a damned thing.

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  250. 254 Anonymous

    I didn’t realize you had replied, since this comment thread has died. Anyway, you probably won’t see this, but I’m a sucker for completeness, so…

    Not interested in starting a family, and will not pull a bait & switch on someone who is… I’m very familiar with their plight, as it’s so similar to my own. WHICH WAS THE POINT OF MY POST IN THE FIRST PLACE!

    Now that you’ve mentioned the whole “not interested in starting a family” thing, that’s clear. You’re in roughly the same position as a nerd who’d feel psychically mutilated if they changed their social behavior enough to stand a reasonable chance of attracting women. In light of this, you’re probably right to not pursue relationships with men any more.

    (On the other hand, you aren’t really in the same sort of boat as zorgon and I. We are trying to change our social behavior.)

    But “nerd” does not automatically equal “saint”, and you’re off your rocker if you think they’re all faithful, admirable paragons of virtue.

    Well, yes. No population is like that. But it is easy to find an unattached, faithful nerd, whereas it is not so easy to find an unattached, faithful guy of most other types.

    If you want to treat all women as The Enemy who couldn’t possibly understand anything you’ve gone through, go right ahead, but I doubt such defensiveness and hostility will serve you all that well in the long run.

    Are you this argumentative in real life? That’s probably a much bigger strike against you than any amount of nerdiness could possibly be.

    I’m not hostile or particularly argumentative in person; if anything, I have been too openly accommodating instead.

    Until they see that I’m not the 8+ they think they deserve, that is, nor interested in a no-strings sexual arrangement.

    Er, maybe my closest high school friends are a biased sample, but none of them think they deserve an 8+ (unless you’re speaking of brains and character rather than beauty, anyway), none of them are interested in no-strings sexual arrangements… and none of them are married (though, okay, one of the three is in a LTR so stable that he may as well be married; but again, it’s with a girl who everyone would rate as 8+ in brains and character but nobody would rate as 8+ in beauty).

    And until you can verify that they actually want a relationship, what does measuring the responses prove? Is it not true that guys will say pretty much anything at all if there’s even a remote possibility that it will eventually lead to them getting pussy? That’s been suggested in these comments, and if that’s true, then no amount of Craigslist responses mean a damned thing.

    Well, we were working under the assumption that you would want to start a family with the “right guy.” A guy willing to commit to that with you would unambiguously prove our point, since nobody just looking for pussy would do that.

    Anyway. Bottom line is, I respect your self-knowledge in knowing you don’t want a family, and your honesty in not baiting and switching guys about the matter. But you should understand that you’re not in the same sort of boat as me — raising a good family is one of my fundamental goals in life, so I cannot “give up on women” the same way you have on men.

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  251. This could NEVER happen because feminists don’t reproduce.

    There is antimatter in this world that can negate the feminist matter. It is a religion, that in this age of globalization, is rapidly spreading in the West :

    Islam.

    Muslims reproduce, feminists don’t. A 50 year old Muslim woman might have 4 kinds and 15 grandkids, while a 50 year old feminist white woman has zero. It only takes 16-17 years for a baby boy to become a fighting-age militant, and it only takes 16-17 years for a baby girl to start cranking out her own babies.

    It does not take long to see which side overwhelms the other.

    The future belongs to those who show up.

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  252. Prediction : More Beta men start converting to Islam.

    Islam is the only other force powerful, determined, and comprehensive enough to bury feminism.

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  253. As the son of Muslim converts I’d say

    “ditto”.

    Sufism, in particular the “traditionalist” schools of sufism (see the writings of the french philosopher Rene Guenon” are particularly potent avenues for white folk.

    Many of the general social beliefs, metaphysics, and outlook of Islam is fairly similar to the pre-modern West’s anyway. The differences are more matters of nuance.

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  254. The only thing that can effectively destroy feminism is Islam. Islam is the answer.

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  255. on May 17, 2009 at 4:29 pm Gunslingergregi

    Tood my muslim buddy says in europe there already a ton of conversions going on.

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  256. The feminist known as The G Manifesto wrote,

    Rapists should get the Death Penalty.

    And I am not a huge advocate of the death penalty.

    Speaking as a likely rapist (if involuntary celibacy continues past a certain point), if I risked the death penalty, I would probably kill the girl as well. The only reason not to would then be the loss of reproductive potential, but feminists have already assured that the girl almost certainly would have an abortion anyway, so that is a moot point. In theory rape is already a more serious crime than murder in Norway, but sentencing is still lagging behind feminist legislation in most cases, so the girl will live.

    You may hate my guts, but your opinion will make the world a more dangerous place for women. Indeed the widespread feminist sentiment itself that beta male sexuality is so despicable that a woman’s right to avoid it is worth more than her life engenders contempt for women.

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  257. on June 2, 2009 at 9:13 pm John David Galt

    Even if none of this silly stuff happens, giving women the vote was a bad idea because it is the reason the US changed from a free country to a near-absolute nanny state over the course of the 20th century. In particular, the alcohol prohibition (“temperance”) movement and the women’s suffrage movement were mostly the same people; that’s why those amendments passed within a year of each other. (Why did prohibition come first? Because most states had already given women the vote.)

    Like


  258. Interesting take, I agree on the sexual revolution of sex aids for men.

    But, what about Polygamy? I’ve always liked that idea. I mean, isn’t it something feminists hate? The whole idea of a harem?

    I personally know many intelligent women, and very few men that I would ever deem fit to be with them, therefore I think the idea that women would like to share a male with an unfathomable libido and thirst for pleasuring women.

    Honestly, I am a male feminist who sees 99.9999999999% of all feminism online as outright hate speech and malignant idiocy. I have a number of concerns, such as teaching chicks about their bodies, free access to birth control and consulting that is unbiased.

    I am for giving access to abortions, AGAINST every fucking argument any fucking idiot has made up until now as to why though. I am very much against abortion – but hey, I can play devil’s advocate and say it lowers crime, even hint at promoting abortion as a means to better society (see how feminazis react to that, lol, the left-right no brain conflict will kill them), I am against abortion like I am against amputating legs and shooting dogs, but sometimes you have to do it. I am not against stopping people who want to perform them (hopefully for reasons women want / need them) performing them on women who need them.

    What about age limits? You can’t say ‘free abortions below 25’, because, fuck, there wouldn’t be an STD free 18 year old to fuck ever again. (lol) but, really, there is a distinction between women who use abortion as birth control, and teenagers, victim of the evil feminazi schemes that fuck up their minds, and the lack of education, end up pregnant.

    At the end of the day I am only arguing this on tax reasons – I don’t like the idea of paying for women to demand rights to use abortion as a cheap form of birth control.

    But I also don’t think teenage chicks should get a piece of candy and be told ‘it will all be ok’ – I think they need to be told the reality of their choice and NOT more lies from feminazis (did I hear that real scientific fact has been forced to be withheld from girls wanting abortion, in case it ‘makes them feel bad’? Look, I know girls who, if they somehow got pregnant, I agree they should have an abortion, and they would be comforted, at no point they should be lied to though)

    Anyway, the crime here is the lack of education for women, and information available to them (and to guys). And giving feminazi fucktards the voice in the orgasm debate… what the fuck… anyway. (I wonder what the stats say about sexual dysfunction in feminists and sexual dysfunction in women not reporting to be feminists (then strip obesity and lesbianism out of the equation as a control of sorts))

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  259. Abortion would be a fun topic to discuss with feminists if they were all SO FUCKING IGNORANT of the shit they scream out.

    Talking with a feminazi:

    f: RT bit.ly/somefaggotarticle haha this is so true!
    u: @f why is that true?
    f: @ubecause XYZ wrote it lol omg
    u: @f why do you think it is true?
    f: OMG STOP RAPING ME LOL RT @u @f #rapistwarning

    Yeah. Ignorance of the issues they blindly support pisses me off.

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  260. And I will say, I see most of the guys responses on here as fucktarded as most women’s responses – we all have to come to the understanding that humans are stupid, and most likely, you are all stupid too – and accept that.

    Idiots arguing with idiots, that is the biggest problem.

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  261. […] parity in this arena.  Still, the specter of the double standard looms large.  Some men fear that women will act to stop research and development of all sexbot technology to retain their control in the Matrix-like sexual market.  Men with the current equivalent of […]

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  262. “The West will slowly return to a primitive state of nature, where 60% of the men got no pussy at all. Eventually, the pendulum will swing back once basic infrastructure begins to crumble as the betas decide their services are no longer appreciated.”

    Yeah, that will be good for our society; 60% of the young men walking around angry, resentful, and agressive, with nothing to lose, because they have nothing to look forward to. Sounds like a recipe for violence at worst, societal decline at best.

    China, thanks to its past policies of favoring male over female births, is running a massive experiment in just this; millions upon millions of young Chinese males have no prospects for wives.

    Since I am a monogamous male, married for many years and happy in that state, I am a relic of the past, apparently. However, the future may be a rough ride for young men and women alike if the dark vision of this article comes to fruition.

    As the Chinese proverb says “May you live in interesting times…”

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  263. I don’t agree with you! The fight between man and woman is old, but let’s face – there is no winning side. Why? Because we are different and this is the best thing. I can show you areas in which women have advantages:

    – money – for a woman today is not big issue to be hired and to get money. Did you read the articles showing increase of the american families where only the woman is working and the man is unemployed? This is due to the fact that psychologically is more hard to fire a woman. Besides this one girl could have money by dating the right rich guy…You have seen this ladies with expensive clothes, right? Well, they are the ones who don’t work and have a lot of money. Imagine a man dating a rich lady because of the money! It’s impossible.

    – life – you live longer, because you don’t worry as much as man.

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  264. […] men more than men depend on women. If every woman died today, men would invent artificial wombs and get on with things. If very man died today, civilisation would begin to end when the first light bulb burned […]

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  265. Great discussion, although offering your personal agenda as evidence can lead to error. That Swedish thing about making boys sit down to pee was briefly true. The janitor at an elementary school complained that the little guys seemed never to hit the bowl and the principal, a woman, accommodated him by telling the boys to use the toilet and sit to pee, rather than stand at the urinal. Next day, she rescinded the instruction possibly because of the loudly complaining mothers who didn’t want their boys to pee like girls. Now it’s all back to normal.

    Except now they have a new janitor, because the old one quit when the principal decided that to avoid eliminating like girls completely, the boys should from now on stand at the urinals to drop a deuce. [Actually I made up that last part, because it seemed so logical.]

    Hang in there guys. The emasculating man-bashing that passes for feminism these days is a far cry from Betty Friedan and Germaine Greer wanting equal opportunity and liberated sex. Now it’s all about being part of the She-Woman Man-Haters Club. Like that show on Lifetime called Snapped, where each day you’re told the story of a woman who just had it with her man and killed him. Can you imagine the uproar over a show like that from a male POV? Its signature closing would be the host asking the same question every time, why the husband had beaten his wife to death, and always getting the same answer: “She made me.”

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  266. Well they don’t get my vote! I’m a feminist, and I think sex bot research is the perfect ticket to freedom! If men could have all the sex they wanted with bots, they’d leave us be and we could all just be friends. As soon as a guy wanted a woman for more than sex, or wanted a child we’d still be there and I love men as friends, and would never wish all those horrible Draconian measures on them. They could just get all that male sexual aggression out on non-sentient beings who can’t suffer so much, and only seek out real women if they wanted to be nice. THAT would be UTOPIA!!! Bring on the sex bots!

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  267. “and only seek out real women if they wanted to be nice”

    that would be women’s dystopia lozlzl

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