What’s Wrong With Japanese Men?

The herbification of the Western world is not just an American phenomenon; Japanese men — heirs of Samurai and Kamikazes — are herbifying straight into an anime-tastic fantasyland of celibate extinction.

Reader Eric sent me a link to a videogame blog discussing an article written by a BBC reporter called “Is Japan a dying nation?”

I’m no social psychologist, so I wouldn’t dare to come up with an explanation for why Japanese couples aren’t having enough babies. But one theory is that Japanese women are increasingly reluctant to marry, because they think Japanese men have shown themselves unable to adapt to the needs of a new, more flexible society – and have retreated into a fantasy world of comics, video games and animated pornography where they feel less threatened.

The BBC article is all the talk on the internet in Japan, and has riled dishonored Japanese men to stand up and defend their manliness. The blog at the link highlights the reactions of indignant Japanese men to the article by posting a representative sampling of the comments they’re leaving on a popular bulletin board:

-Make reality more interesting than games please.
-Yeah I can live on games alone.
-If everybody became obsessed with games then we would live in a peaceful society.
-Reality does not want to deal with me you idiot.
-The world in the monitor is reality. The world we live in is just imaginary.
-To be honest, I don’t want a (real) woman.
Love Plus is reality.
-There are too many Japanese people anyway so decreasing the population would be just right.
-But the 2D world is ideal.
-Oh and its OK to be obsessed with movies and books then?
-My (2D) girlfriend is Aika-san. She lets me meet her whenever I want and greets me with a smile if I forget a date – and she does not cost money. Thats all I need.
-His words are racist.
-I’m 30 and earn 3.5 million yen (35K USD) – how am I supposed to get married?
-Why is somebody from a declining country (England) telling me this?
-The decline of the population has nothing to do with games or manga.
-My partner is Hatsune Miku. I would do anything for her and we are thinking of having kids.
-I tried to face reality and it became Love Plus.
-We must fight reality!
-They should make a game for the DS called “lets face society”
-A country of Neets (England) being worried about Japan?
-Not sure about England but the hurdle to getting married over the past 20 years in Japan is gone up too high – socially and financially.
-Unless there are more job positions then I cant face reality.
-Girls in games wont cheat on us.
-The solution is to make reality in games.
-I’m too busy with work to think about getting married.
-But Sanya is too cute.
-Solution is simple – make it so that anime and manga characters can get pregnant.

To my Euro and American readers, any of these complaints sound familiar? The Japanese, Rushtonian K-style, have simply taken the Great Beta Retreat one step further. I would say that Japanese men need game, but really, when you’re this far gone (“make it so that anime and manga characters can get pregnant”) you’re not ready to accept the Good Word of Game into your life.

If China wanted to invade and occupy an aging and increasingly celibate cartoon porn-addicted Japan right now, they would find an easy go of it. I think the Chinese know this.





Comments


  1. This is not what MacArthur wanted. Just ask Goto Dengo.

    Liked by 1 person


  2. on October 5, 2009 at 11:18 am Anonimus041277

    “…Japanese men — heirs of Samurai and Kamikazes — are herbifying straight into an anime-tastic fantasyland of celibate extinction.”

    I’m half-Norwegian, another nation in steep decline which at one time had a glorious Warrior Tradition (Vikings!) so seeing essentially the same thing/ parallel happening to another Great People is very saddening.

    The only conclusion one can come to is that our World needs more Yukio Mishimas and Varg Vikerneses. (both Alpha?)

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  3. With so many men locking themselves in and obsessing over World Of Warcraft, we aren’t far behind.

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  4. I think the question here is what exactly started this disturbing trend, Japan in particular? When they lost in WWII and were forced to adopt non-aggressive traits (i.e., could only have a military for defense purposes)?

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  5. The answer is simple. A diet high in carbs and soy, and low in protein and saturated fats and cholesterol, which are important for testosterone production.

    This is nothing new. The vast majority of the Japanese population (the peasants) always lived mostly on rice, while the Samurai elite got the lion’s share of the protein.

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  6. Chris-Who knows?

    On a side note, has anyone seen The Great Happiness Space? It’s a film about Japanese male prostitutes.

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  7. Guys are not what they used to be, it’s probably all that plastic we wrap the food in.

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  8. I’ll bone the Japanese ladies. Always thought WASP-Asian hybrids were the master race…

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  9. My theory is that when a society reaches a point at which all survival and comfort needs are satiated and seem immovably secure, masculinity is seen as a pathology, and men dandify and soften.

    This theory is work-in-progress on my part, more off-the-cuff than thoroughly thought out… but look at analogous places and their men:

    Vermont dudes with ponytails and sandals; Scandinavian dudes who pee sitting down (unfair point, as it’s more complicated than that, but you get my point)

    In contrast, look at guys in Alabama or Russia — no twinks there. But then again, per Nicole’s observation, Israeli men are letting Palis get all their girls. So… wtf?

    The Japan thing… I don’t think Korea, a similarly-advanced country, is showing signs of demasculinization, as far as I know.

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  10. It’s making money though. The more people things in life people have to buy to feel happy, the more money rolls in to the manufacturers of these “necessities”.

    It’ll implode with a population decline, but who cares when it’s filling pockets today?

    I think Gabby’s right about the food. Encourage people to follow a diet that will make them more docile, and it’s easy to manipulate their other drives after that.

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  11. Feminists refused to play teh biology game as it is – and these men are reacting to it.

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  12. I wonder if urbanization tends to do this over time to men. Everything is neat, orderly and controlled. Social circles and shopping. Nothing to explore, nothing to hunt. Please don’t walk on the grass. Never be out of eye shot of mom. Sit still. Do what you are told.

    What are the city areas like where the boys turn into caricatures of men? Crime ridden. Shattered. Disorderly. Populated by the lazy, the fearful and the feared. Time is vaguer, less authoritarian. With the nuclear family having exploded, there does remain an extended family with cousins, other boys to run around with.

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  13. KM, Japan doesn’t really have a feminism problem. Japanese girls are kind of easy and very submissive at least in behavior.

    We’re talking, will clean their boyfriends’ roomates room and do all their laundry if you let them submissive.

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  14. I saw Tokyo Drift and the Japanese seemed plenty virile and oversexed.

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  15. This is nothing new. The vast majority of the Japanese population (the peasants) always lived mostly on rice, while the Samurai elite got the lion’s share of the protein.

    Interesting point. Not sure about the diet, but in Japanese movies there always seems to be a very drastic contrast between the strong Samurai alphas and the general populace rife with grovelling pathetic omegas.

    It’s likely the same today, an exaggeration of Roissy’s oft-mentioned scenario where a small cadre of alphas are getting all of the action while everybody else laments in hopelessness.

    Articles I’ve seen about Japanese culture back this up. Hordes of young girls rejecting the men around them as weak to go hunting at clubs for successful businessmen. Even the mediocre ones past their prime will persistently show up at the clubs to get used or rejected rather than give any scraps to lesser men.

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  16. I should mention that in the article I read (I should find it) the girls will still reject the sharpest-dressed man if he is ‘boring’ (beta) after they gulp expensive drinks on his dime.

    Also I suspect many of the guys that pump and dump them aren’t as rich as they appear, just well-dressed enough to open with them and run some game.

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  17. I believe there’s a mixture of genetic predisposition, culture, and modern living which produces males susceptible to betaization at various velocities. Most Asians have much lower circulating testosterone than western men and the high consumption of soy in their diet is not likely to help. Culturally, the Japanese have a Shintoist heritage which more readily allows them to embrace the inanimate as a substitute for flesh and blood. Lastly, as PA had mentioned, the convenience of modern living does produce men which do not have to struggle for survival and thus can subsist with little or no effort.

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  18. The Japanese don’t seem to do anything half way. When they were feudal, they were more stereotypically feudal than Europe ever was. Then they decided to become imperialist, and turned themselves into some of the most fearsome people to ever walk the eath. Of course, being fierce doesn’t help much against tanks and nuclear weapons, so after the war they took the corporatism we taught them and in only a couple decades were doing it better than we ever did. Of course, corporatism doesn’t actually work in the long run, so now that it’s fallen apart they seem to be absorbing the post masculinity/industrial/whatever society and running with that.

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  19. “The Japan thing… I don’t think Korea, a similarly-advanced country, is showing signs of demasculinization, as far as I know”

    I’m skeptical that they’re that different, but this article says Korean nerds aren’t quite as hopeless as Japanese nerds because Korea still has compulsory military service::

    “There are many Japanese otaku who shun real women because they find them “scary” or “difficult” compared to virtual reality girls, but again Korean otaku find such an idea hard to comprehend. Thanks perhaps to compulsory military service, few young Korean men have not experienced women in some way and when it comes to relieving sexual frustration, no punches are pulled”

    http://www.theblackship.com/forum/japan-tabloid-news/490-korean-otaku-turn-aprons-up-moe-warm-fuzzy-feelings.html

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  20. DF, a solution could be rites of passage that involve tests of manhood and the like. I suspect that Japanese guys who participate in martial arts or other traditional activities on a regular basis, don’t have these problems.

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  21. Korean nerds aren’t quite as hopeless as Japanese nerds because Korea still has compulsory military service

    I totally forgot about this. Very few Korean males avoid conscription, if any, and that’s in part because this would be an extreme handicap in their civilian career. One way Korean corporations get around discrimination claims in not hiring enough women is by requiring military service on an applicant’s CV.

    South Korean conscript military service is no joke. Sleeping on a straw mat on a concrete floor. Nasty beatings for small infractions. I once watched two ROK privates doing punishment-pushups while a sergeant stood over them and kicked them in the chest and ribs if their form began sagging.

    The few lucky/connected Korean guys can hope to be assigned to US Army units, normally something that rich Ivy-equivalent students get an inside track on.

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  22. If Japanese women have failed to make themselves more attractive than a video game, whose fault is that?

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  23. This could be the wholly nihilistic endgame I denied that would happen as a result of not implementing normative gender roles. (LOL)

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  24. on the Korean thing, they also have the option of arranged marriage. So, even a beta or ugly chick can get hooked up. I never heard about Japanese arranged marriages.

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  25. I’ve seen a number of very extroverted and healthy-looking Japanese guys on “Ninja Warrior.” They ranged from professional gymnasts, to business executives, to fishermen, to garbage men. Is “Ninja Warrior” competitions where all the Japanese alphas are?

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  26. Japan is experiencing “Beta Drift”.

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  27. a group of counter-cultural japanese male youths will likely arise to make up this disparity. unless japanese men have had all the testosterone zapped out of them, these guys will clean up with the ladies. a sexually permissive society will develop as a large group of japanese males have effectively taken themselves out of the sexual marketplace. all the better for the counter-cultural type.

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  28. In Response to PA :

    I absolutely agree with you.

    I think your theory sounds about on par with Zed’s theory of our REAL modern cultural conflict being Agrarian vs. Urban Lifestyles & Values.

    http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/09/29/the-secret-of-life-shut-up-and-shovel-the-fuckin-gravel/

    One of the most basic tenants of Evolutionary Psychology that I think all students of the discipline can agree to is that human nature is such that we’re hardwired to satisfy our immediate basic needs rather than seek long-term happiness.

    The types of Japanese men described in that article demonstrate this perfectly — They’ve found digital and remote outlets, completely divorced from reality, that satisfy their needs.

    Extending this theory closer to home, it seems that modern SWPLs and suburban white youth are starting to show the same symptoms. Various stages of “White Flight” throughout recent years by rationally concerned parents have resulted in the sad and dangerous insulation of white kids of this socio-cultural bracket from the harsh realities of everyday life.

    Just from interacting with such teenagers and young adults on a daily basis and comparing them to their rural, foreign, more experienced and realistically raised counterparts, I shutter to think how terribly unequipped and unprepared the new generation of mainstream middle-class whites are for the challenges facing them in this new century…

    [Note: This isn’t a racial criticism, just an honest lamentation that yet another cultural facet of this country that has had a strong history is failing to adapt to an ever-changing and ever-hostile world.]

    In Response to Roissy :

    Do you think that “Globalization” and sexual issues prevalent in the West and the lack of desirable and capable men in some parts of the East and Global South will result in more couplings between these two groups — ala post-WWII?

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  29. From the Kotaku message board from whence this post originates:

    Why can’t young men wed anymore? I think it is because men can no longer say to women, ‘I can always protect you,’ in this dog-eat-dog world of restructurings and layoffs – such words are now unreal.

    Women as a result now target two groups of men: “ikemen” (handsome, cool men), and rich men, the so-called ‘Hills tribe’ (referring to the ultra-prestigious Roppongi Hills residential tower).

    But most men have neither money nor good looks, and as a result women will no longer consider them. Surprisingly, I’ve heard of cases where a chosen man will end up dating dozens or hundreds of women.

    Since the ikemen and the rich monopolise the women, all that remains is a sterile desert, where normal men can no longer find a partner, so they flee to Akihabara and find love in the arms of an anime character.
    – Nikkei Business Publication

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  30. askjoe, you are merely ignorant — see o-miai.

    Also to all Roissy’s ball-lickers here: it’s kind of stale news, but the economic foundation of traditional marriage and family is no more. You want your women to be many, barefoot and pregnant, go to Africa or Islamic Asia.

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  31. I spent a good chunk of my career working for the Japanese. i can assure you, they were herbified DECADES ago.

    I would go with them on occasion to their hostess bars, where we would get drunk, sing karaoke, and they would pay women to sit and talk with them. No touching, no nothing, just talk.

    One guy spent years and thousands of dollars taking one of these girls out to dinner after dinner, and never got so much as a peck on the cheek. This was not your typical nerd banker, either. This guy had style, good looks and a really hot wife that he got himself, not through a marriage broker.

    A lot of these Japanese banker types end up getting their wives through marriage brokers, the modern equivalent of an arranged marriage.

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  32. Asians are further to the left on the beta bell curve than whites, so you get syndromes in Asia that just aren’t on the beta radar in the West.

    Betas are socially awkward, but rarely are Western nerds so socially uncomfortable that they lock themselves in their room for their entire life, avoiding even their parents.

    It’s like even talking to your mom is characterized by approach anxiety.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

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  33. Twenty-year recession, anyone?

    Young Japanese men of today grew up in a time of Japan’s economic recession, and have known nothing else. They saw their fathers get beat down by the recession, their standard of living stagnate, the unrelenting hopelessness of improving their situation, and all that.

    Men need to have jobs. They need to feel that they can protect and improve their families’ lot. Being unemployed — or severely underemployed — is extremely demoralizing for a man. Add hopelessness that things can change, and you have the world of Japan as described.

    It’s not low levels of testosterone based on a high soy diet, LOL. If that’s the case, then why do Asians make up 20% of the world’s population? What accounts for the continuing rise of China? Don’t see a trend of docility there.

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  34. Kamikaze’s were lower betas, no? Or at least people who didn’t have a lot options.

    PA – “My theory is that when a society reaches a point at which all survival and comfort needs are satiated and seem immovably secure, masculinity is seen as a pathology, and men dandify and soften.”

    I would argue that these needs are met, but at high cost. Its very expensive to live in a city and this is a big disadvantage for young men who have to wait in line for good positions when the economy is bad. You can circumvent this problem with the many ways Roissy presents, but in collectivist, tradition-bound and very expensive Japan this problem is magnified.

    Emigration might be a good solution for the Japanese, but I think they have some naturally disinclination for that compared to say the English, for instance.

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  35. Some this is insane. I find it hard to believe we are looking at a cultural phenomenon. Something biological is in the works here. Emasculated men. Girl getting their period at 11.

    Something is literally in the water.

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  36. Sounds like a good opportunity- if this is the competition in Japan, it’s time to put on a Custom Suit, fly to Tokyo and lend some comfrot to these deprived Japanese women.

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  37. From Wike “As of 2007, it is estimated that between 10-30% of marriages in Japan are arranged”

    Ok, fine, O-mial is still practiced. What the fuck then?

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  38. I don’t remember if roissy commented on it last year, but Game seems to have popped up independently and at the same time in Japan as it has in America.

    Here’s a 2008 article from Wired talking about the emergence of the Japanese seduction community. Do see the slideshow.

    http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2008/02/pick_up_school

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  39. Natasha F said:

    “Twenty-year recession, anyone?

    Young Japanese men of today grew up in a time of Japan’s economic recession, and have known nothing else. They saw their fathers get beat down by the recession, their standard of living stagnate, the unrelenting hopelessness of improving their situation, and all that.

    Men need to have jobs. They need to feel that they can protect and improve their families’ lot. Being unemployed — or severely underemployed — is extremely demoralizing for a man. Add hopelessness that things can change, and you have the world of Japan as described.”

    What normally happens when economies stagnate and men cannot find jobs to provide for themselves and their familes? The crime rate skyrockets. Most men do not submit to their own genetic death like sheep. But they do in Japan because they are fed a testosterone killing diet. You only object to this because you are a vegetarian.

    “It’s not low levels of testosterone based on a high soy diet, LOL. If that’s the case, then why do Asians make up 20% of the world’s population? What accounts for the continuing rise of China? Don’t see a trend of docility there.”

    People work their asses off in China because they don’t want to starve to death.

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  40. Game seems to have popped up independently and at the same time in Japan as it has in America.

    Popped up? I’ve read quite a bit of back Roissy now, and I can say most of this was conventional wisdom when I was in high school. There was more emphasis on “chivalry” but certainly there was an imperative to appear masculine no matter how nervous you felt on the inside.

    Now I grew up in the South which is perhaps a bit different in terms of gender expectations. However, I think most of this is a remembering of expectations that were lost only a few decades ago.

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  41. Kamikaze wasn’t anything to be proud of. They were just brainwashed suicide bombers.
    Just sayin

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  42. on October 5, 2009 at 1:08 pm Carolus Reconditus

    Rushtonian

    As a Rushton fan, and a personal friend of Chris Brand (IQ and PC), Roissy rises in my estimation to alpha ++.

    Despite the occasional ueber-mysogynic tantrum …

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  43. Lee, the Kamikazes were fighting a declared enemy, not targeting civilians engaged in non-war activities.

    I feel honestly quite bad for East Asian men, because they get the worst sexual rumors and stereotypes, and yet contribute a million times more than others with the best stereotypes.

    They are in the same boat as the Jews once were, but Jews got out of it with 1) Israel, a very tough nation, with required military service and chauvinistic culture; and 2) the emergence of bad boy Jews (Rick Soloman, Ron Jeremy) who fight the stereotypes, er, openly.

    Japan’s demilitarization probably had a lot to do with it.

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  44. Kamikaze wasn’t anything to be proud of. They were just brainwashed suicide bombers.

    If you ain’t afraid to die, you ain’t afraid to approach and say anything to anyone.

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  45. on October 5, 2009 at 1:12 pm rabbitsareyummy

    I nominate myself as beta of the month.

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  46. I don’t think there can be any one cause for this. I would point out one thing, maybe overlooked elsewhere.

    Traditionally, like most extreme patrilineal-patrilocal societies, Japanese families craved sons and tolerated caughters who were treated like the financial liabilities they were. Additionally, because of arranged/brokered marriages, the husband/wife connection was more of a business relationship than emotional bond. In such a society, women tend to form their strongest and most intimate emotional ties with their sons rather than their husbands.

    Strong emotional connections to mommy and a general dislike of girls do not make for good husbands.

    If the society is poor enough that families are necessary to survive, this model works as most young men and women are married off whether they want to be or not. But with increasing prosperity, and increased female choice, more women will decline the whole marriage route and the inevitable emotional conflicts with a mother-in-law about who hubby’s heart really belongs to (to mom, always to mom).

    I think the idea of Korean military service helps there (where you get the same dynamic) along with the stark model of North Korea staring them in the face (South Koreans don’t perceive themselves as belonging to a rich society the way Japanese do).

    Western ideas of not favoring sons or daughters make for better husbands (though son favoring and coddling Italy is having population problems of its own as Italian women don’t want to compete with Mama anymore than Japnese women do).

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  47. “I can say most of this was conventional wisdom when I was in high school.”

    Difference between game and Game. People knew how to punch and kick before karate. The seduction community and pick up schooling really has popped up over the last 10 years or so.

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  48. Oh, come on, Roissy. Don’t you know that these men are dregs? So far as games (and hookers) take care of them (as Wendy Schwartz once said in her infinite wisdom), why bother with them? Girls hate the idea of these men getting uppity about their shots with the Precious Princesses, so they want them out of their faces, anyway.

    Obviously, when you were reading these fellows’ comments, you forgot to crank up the wonderful feminist device called “you-sound-bitter-o-meter.” Then you would have spotted instantly that this is blown way out of proportion.

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  49. on October 5, 2009 at 1:25 pm Cannon's Canon

    oh, herro preez! CHING CHONG!

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  50. There’s a wealth of Daoism

    in American puas soberly blog commenting
    on the decline of anime-infected Japanese males
    as documented by
    a BBC commenter named “Robin”

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  51. Pupu seconds (and thirds) Natasha F and Uncle Gabby’s macro-economic explanation.

    Here is an article on the herbivore men of Japan
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/06/05/japan.herbivore.men/index.html

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  52. The Japanese situation is very very interesting for a number of reasons.

    Explanations that place too much emphasis on lower testosterone levels are highly suspect. There is very little reason to think that’s changed substantially, at least by any means other than the effects of cultural change. (Success including with women but also in other social victories, and working out and muscle building, increase testosterone, while failure and celibacy lower it.) Explantations based on soy or rice and carbs or too little fat are almost certainly bogus. The Japanese diet hasn’t changed much with modernity, unlike many other ones.

    The Japanese Samurai warrior tradition which goes back more than a thousand years truly is impressive. So too was the dogged and fearless, or fear suppressing anyway, performance of average Japanese military soldiers against Americans and Aussies etc. in the Pacific campaign of WWII, or for that matter going back to their stomping of the Russians in the Japanese Russian war ending in 1905. (Which humiliating defeat for the Russians started the process of overthrowing the Tzar, which culminated int the Russian revolution of 1917.)

    So forget testosterone levels in the Japanese, or even the average former peasant (and non Samurai) Japanese, as the explanation.

    As well something often used as exhibit A, alongside the pernicious effects of feminism in the media and schools, as the explanation in America and the Anglosphere doesn’t work nearly as well in Japan. That’s job and salary parity, or near parity. That hasn’t happened to nearly the same extent in Japan. Far from having affirmative action for girls there, they often still have a fair amount of soft or even hard gender discimination in Japan still. That is changing, but it hasn’t so far changed nearly as much as in the US.

    Japanese girls often live with their parents so that their lower salaries from not terribly ambitious or high level jobs can go for clothes, other fashion accessories, clubbing and other fru fru purchases. The big money is still made mostly by men in the US; that’s WAY more true in Japan.

    So what’s my explanation? I think it IS mostly a cultural/ideological change in mid stream. I think it IS mostly US and western influences, only partly absorbed.

    I DO thing it’s the result of the wide scale rejection by Japanese girls of the traditional Japanese cultural role for women as being not very attractive. If it’s something they have to do eventually, they want to put it off as long as possible and many don’t get to it. In Japan’s case this often/usually has to be enabled by the girl’s parents. Her mother really. (I dont’ think the fathers, born soon after WWII, have much say in those things in even still somewhat traditional Japanese homes of that generation unless maybe he’s very high status.)

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  53. on October 5, 2009 at 1:53 pm gauisuticensis

    While I do tend to hold some stock in the Ruston-ite view of East Asians as more prone to be beta, those who subscribe too strongly to such views should read up on the Japanese and World War II. Western war crimes cannot even compare to some of the depraved things that Japanese army did in Manchuria and to captured Russian POWs. Also read up on the first kamikaze pilot and Hiroo Onada, a soldier in the Imperial Army who played guerilla warrior on the Phillippines’ Lubang Island, never formally surrendering until 1974. I wonder how they lost such a proud and fearsome heritage so quickly.

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  54. btw, by all accounts I’ve heard, American white guys of even moderate amounts of masculinity by American standards, can really clean up in Japan. As in REALLY clean up. I’m talking higher beta heaven. May be even beta heaven if the guy even just reads about game.

    Great place to be an expat. Well all of East Asia seems to be. (Maybe a bit less in Korea for various reasons.)

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  55. Roissy, per our Nobama as alpha/beta male discussion:

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/10/did_we_elect_a_beta_male_as_pr_1.html

    “Did We Elect a Beta Male As President?” by Greg Lewis.

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  56. Why should they care? What is in it for THEM?

    A society that does not treat a group of people humanely cannot expect those people to contribute to it. Feudal societies have low productivity, widespread misery and insecurity precisely because of these reasons. Most feudal lords do not die of old age, even after accumulating a lot of wealth.

    Feudal societies cannot sustain anything more complex than basic agriculture and building cathedral-type buildings. Anything more complex than that level requires the majority to people to derive some benefit from playing with the system.

    Essentially, younger japanese men seem to have understood that their elders and women do not care about them. They do not benefit from playing with the system.

    It is just easier to let the world around you rot and collapse from neglect. Just ask most black men, who will get the short end of the stick even if they want to play nice.

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  57. gauisuticensis,

    People will play with the system only as long they benefit (or think they can benefit) from playing.

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  58. Yeah, well.

    These people are not as unhappy as you’d think.

    They’re basically tricking their baser instincts into being satisfied, rather than playing an unfulfilling and idiotic game. I don’t think any real relationship compares to finally finishing Ever17, and getting the true ending.

    You will never see real beauty in the human form.

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  59. Well all of East Asia seems to be. (Maybe a bit less in Korea for various reasons.)

    I don’t know Japan very well but my impression of the Korean scene is that ordinary Korean girls on the street (actually, Seoul doesn’t have streets — it has flowing rivers of pretty, stylish, elegent young women) may be fascinated and attracted to young American guys, but thery are unapproachable.

    Titanium-grade prude shields. If you smile at one, she and her girlfriend, who walk holding hands, will lower their eyes, clutch each other closely and speed up their walk to avoid you. Two worlds.

    On the other hand, any Korean girls that have contact with Americans, such as working on the military base, or in any services connected with tourism or military, will be liek Doug says, a great place for an expat.

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  60. Regarding soy, even the Japanese and East Asians are aware that soy consumption can have an emasculating effect. The traditional diet of Buddhist monks in East Asia has been soy (sometimes exclusively so) for a long time, precisely for the emasculating, testosterone reducing effects it has. Buddhist monks are all about reducing desire, will, etc., so soy is perfect for them.

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  61. fuck it.

    more asian pussy for us.

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  62. You don’t approach on the street in Korea- Koreans are a lot more shy about strangers, so that’s not a good idea. If you go to one of the major nightlife areas, the women there are open to meeting Western. I also know some men had good luck with online game there.

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  63. I was in Japan for the whole summer and just got back. Japan is interesting because their culture isn’t very feminist. In tv shows the guys regularly smack and push around chicks that are being annoying. That’s the one thing I like about it, no crazy feminist run networks and crap, but I guess that’s true of anywhere but America.
    But the one thing that surprised me was how metro the clothing style in Japan was. Like dudes carry around purses and shit. Not like messenger bags, if I didn’t see a dude carrying one, I’d thing it was a woman’s handbag. Like I’m talking all out leather bag with straps and gold things on it and shit like those 500-600 dollar womens’ fashion bags or what not. Like one dude I knew who was totally straight put glitter in his hair. They take what metro is in America to a totally new level. It’s like beyond gay at this point.

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  64. Ceeltic, that’s correct. The best way to meet Korean girls in Korea who aren’t already connected with the American presence there, is to make friends with a few cool Korean guys through whom you’ll meet girls.

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  65. nycsamurai, the feminist movement never caught on there—its largely Irish and Jewish-female driven, as those two cultures are both hegemonic here and also have a long history of matriarchial dominance.

    In Japanese culture, men have traditionally been held superior/in charge, and a patriarchial cultural woudl find feminine dominane and aberration.

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  66. If you go to one of the major nightlife areas, the women there are open to meeting Western

    I never tried that

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  67. the offspring of East -Asian/WHite couples is indeed a master race, with high IQ, beautiful and with delayed-aging.

    I wonder if the future Ms. gig will be 50% Japanese.

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  68. @PA – this is a race thing in Korea. I used to live there. Japan and Korea are both quite racist societies that continue to heavily disapprove of miscegenation (to use a term that is mainly outdated and disapproved of in the West, but still alive and kicking there). The prostitutes and mixed-race kids that spring up around U.S. military bases only prove that point: there’s a huge stigma and social/political disapproval of it. So white guys don’t do too well at all in Korea. (Black guys even less so). Can’t speak for Japan, never having lived there, but I understand it’s fairly similar. The kind of American guy thagt does best in Korea is … a Korean-American, especially if they speak the language. They have all the American cultural attitudes and allure but are racially Korean, so can be brought home to mom & dad. These guys are *truly* in tall clover in Seoul – and PA is right, Korean girls are among the best looking in Asia.

    On the theme of the post: I actually tend to agree with the economic argument put forth by Natasha/Gabby/Pupu above. It’s an extreme version of the “beta withdrawal” phenomenon that comes up here from time to time: average (beta) men know that the rules – in money, love, and status – are all rigged against them, and society (both women and the alpha men they always go for) doesn’t give two shits about them or their happiness. (Obsidian’s posts about black men being the canary in the coal mine for this phenom in the U.S. are also on this point. ) So they either become antisocial thugs or criminals, or withdraw as much as possible from normal social interaction and the institutions of society that historically have needed them.

    Thugs are deeply frowned upon in conformist Japan, so it’s the latter. It takes a particularly strange form because… well, because the Japanese, let’s face it, are pretty much the strangest people on the face of the earth. No disrespect – strange in a mainly interesting, cool, and smart way. But … strange.

    The “Lost Decade” of the 90s in Japan, after the bursting of *their* real-estate bubble in 1989, was much more than just that: it marked the end of decades of post-war growth. Just flattened, from 8-10% a year to 0% a year, basically, for most of the 90s. The successful model of export-led growth, “salarymen,” keiretsu, etc. simply stopped delivering growth, for a variety of reasons. This implies static or falling living standards – ultimately the latter. So the next generation of potential businessmen get all the downsides (narrow, conformist corporate culture, etc.) with none of the upsides (upward mobility, job stability, prosperity). No wonder they stop caring.

    Is this our future? Stay tuned…

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  69. I agree with a commenter above that soy may be a small contributing factor to this. It’s like taking estrogen supplements.

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  70. Japan and Korea are both quite racist societies

    I agree, per my own observation, except that I see that as a good thing, as in, good for the Koreans and Japanese. Good for humanity, in fact.

    Interestingly, I once talked with a very attractive Korean girl in college (in the U.S.) and it was clear that she was very attracted to me, and the conversation veered toward mixed-race GI-children in her country. She said that one of her girlfriends in college (in Korea) is half-white, and “she is very beautiful.”

    She then added, completely unprompted by me that she had a half-black classmate in school and said, with a revolted look on her face “she was very ugly, nobody liked her.”

    Our conversation then turned to bunnies and fluffy things, and continued nicely.

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  71. Dennis Mangan has a great post about Japanese standard of living in 1989-2009. It seems very likely that it increased a lot, since wages didn´t fall as much as the cost of services, specially modern services (broadband, cell phones, PC speed…)

    Japan´s problem is the prohibite costs of housing. Decline in population is good for them. I see Japan much better 20 years from now, but it cetainly sucks to be a Japanese -man-born between 1970 and 1990

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  72. Korea has mandatory military service for all young men out of high school. The basic training is very tough. Sometimes recruits die in “live” fire exercises or of exposure in mountain survival training. This makes for a more “militaristic” society and helps maintain the masculinity of Korean men. Their birthrates, however, are even lower than that of Japan.

    Chinese men are tough, but not as tough as Koreans. The Chinese are becoming soft over time as well. The Koreans are the toughest of the three nationalities. Also, China has below replacement birthrate, though higher than Japan and South Korea (N. Korea’s birthrate is non-existent). China will not be invading anyone anytime soon.

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  73. I’m surprised. 74 posts and no one has used the word “heroic” yet.

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  74. Has no one posted the great Felicia Day video yet?

    “Do you Wanna Date My Avatar?”:

    Danger, song is likely to get stuck in your head.

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  75. Korean girls are among the best looking in Asia.

    I agree. With this additional explanation: Korea has the highest baseline level of average female attractiveness. While in Korea (I spent a lot of time there) I actively observed that you simply will not see an ugly or fat, or even a plain-looking girl under 24.

    Japan, on the other hand, has a much lower baseline female attractiveness; lots of gaunt-toothy types, for example. But their extremes in beauty reach higher peaks and descend to lower lows, than they do in Korea.

    While Korea is a river of 8.5s, Japan is a rocky shore with diamond-like 10s among the rocks.

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  76. @PA- true, agreed. when were you there..?

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  77. gig

    I wonder if the future Ms. gig will be 50% Japanese.

    Just be sure it’s the only 50% of a woman that matters.

    Me, I prefer Koreans: they make the best 50″ plasmas

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  78. Maurice, I’ll say it was sometime during the 90s. Don’t wanna get too specific.

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  79. Wo. So many things to say. But, I’m getting bored of this so I’ll just say this:

    – You will “clean up” in Japan if you go to the right places, have no issues with prostitutes/escorts, and have moderate-to-low standards. As with most cultures in Asia, if you’re a westerner, you WILL NOT MEET THE MAJORITY OF WOMEN. You will meet girls who are very liberal (think, the equivalent of coastal city girls in the US), girls who are ex -prostitutes, -escorts, -etc., and girls who are generally sluts. Sorry, but it just doesn’t happen that way.

    – Most Japanese girls are after your money if you’re a Westerner. Okay. Most girls (period) are after your money (period).

    – Everything you learned in Tokyo Drift is wrong

    – The reason there’s no compulsory military service in Japan is because…Japan has no military. Duh.

    – Hostess bars are reminiscent of geisha. Geisha (who still exist) were never, ever prostitutes. It’s a cultural thing. Think a strip club, except with less nakedness. Same result. Bad example of herbation.

    Japanese girls often live with their parents so that their lower salaries from not terribly ambitious or high level jobs can go for clothes, other fashion accessories, clubbing and other fru fru purchases.

    The exact same can be said of young men. Most young people in Japan who are unemployed/unambitious are this way by choice. It’s a cultural phenomenon and the older generation is very concerned.

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  80. Slightly off topic, but a lot of Asian chicks come over to places like Vancouver, ostensibly to study English, but often just to have a fling with a cool white guy before they go back home to marry someone of their own ethnicity.

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  81. “Japan has no military”

    Very very wrong. $50 billion/year military.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Self-Defense_Forces

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  82. Rain And–

    Korean nerds aren’t quite as hopeless as Japanese nerds because Korea still has compulsory military service::

    Koreans also have a lot more Mongol (Manchu/Jurchen) blood in them, as do Manchurians and others in far northern China. Korean men often are taller than Japanese men and look a lot more hard ass. Overlapping bell curves of course.

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  83. You guys are nuts. There’s nothing wrong with Japanese man. There is plenty wrong with Japanese internet nerds. If you’d actually been to Japan, you’d realize this.

    The do suffer from the same thing which ails all civilized cultures right now: the insanity of the female libido and soft polygamy. It’s overt; watching 14 year old girls making out with their 50-something sugar daddies: kind of bizarre really.

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  84. Ceeltic, that’s correct. The best way to meet Korean girls in Korea who aren’t already connected with the American presence there, is to make friends with a few cool Korean guys through whom you’ll meet girls.

    I can personally vouch for this.

    Korean men are quite aware of the large imbalance between Korean men and women when it comes to out-dating, out-marriage, etc., and the easy success Western men can have with their women. The quality of Korean women that a Western guy has access to if he’s not really in the know is not that great. The types of Korean women that associate in areas where Western/foreign men hang out, or that actively seek out foreign men, are often trashy, low class types that aren’t at the upper levels of attractiveness as far as Korean women go.

    However, if you befriend Korean men, especially established, professional types, they will make it their mission that you get at least a taste of their “private stock” so to speak. They will take you to all kinds of venues, clubs, establishments, etc., that are generally inaccessible to foreigners due to ignorance, price, or just generally being closed off to foreigners who aren’t accompanied by Koreans. You will then have access to higher quality Korean women that are otherwise more difficult or impossible to come by.

    I strongly recommend you befriending Korean men, especially wealthy, powerful, professional types, if you visit the place and want quality. Korean men can be quite contemptuous of foreign men/Korean women couples, but if you get in good with some Korean men and “prove yourself” so to speak that you’re a good guy, they can be quite the enablers/pushers.

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  85. on October 5, 2009 at 3:29 pm gauisuticensis

    The prettiest girls I have ever laid eyes upon — notice I said pretty, as in virginal, white-cloth, pretty, NOT hot — were all Japanese girls, perfect 10s in facial structure and acted femininity.

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  86. on October 5, 2009 at 3:32 pm gauisuticensis

    Well now, by Murphy’s Law, it is only a matter of time before that illiterate moron Gunsligieri or some shit runs in and ruins this informative thread.

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  87. LILGRL recommended:

    You will “clean up” in Japan if you go to the right places, have no issues with prostitutes/escorts, and have moderate-to-low standards.

    pfh. you just described NYC without pachinko

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  88. @PA- 95-96 for me. maybe we were there at the same time. i didn’t live on Yongsan but I was there just about once a week.

    @LILGRL-

    Most girls (period) are after your money (period).

    admirable honesty.

    also, good point about hostess bar girls being basically modernized geishas. (if that’s what you were indeed saying…)

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  89. Maurice: “So white guys don’t do too well at all in Korea. “

    I was there for 2 weeks, and I cleaned up. And, I suffer from the double disability of being an old dude. Secret to Korean women: you have to dress well and look like a “real American” (aka 1950s era white guy). If you’re a scruffy english teacher slob, you will get much less tail. Other secret to Korean women: there are special bars you go to, to meet Korean women who like white meat. There are a few in Itaewon, but in my opinion, those are sketchy and filled with nasty women (probably former hookers, like LIL says, though some are simply women who have been soiled by the white dudes). I prefer the ones in Hongdae. In regular Korean bars, it’s true, not a target rich environment. Part of that is just how Koreans roll: they do everything in groups, and pick ups are simply not done. Part of it is, you’re basically a black man in 1950s white America when you’re picking up K-girls as a white man. OK, at this point, maybe it’s 1960s America over there, but race mixing is still pretty daring for the Koreans.

    Fun thing I plan on taking advantage of: walk in the Irish bar without a Korean girl on your arm, and every white woman in the place will look at you like a starving man looks at a piece of meat. They’re usually not as hot as the Korean girls, but it would be fun to make them jump through some hoops.

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  90. Jameson: Interesting summary.

    Where would you suggest a 32-year-old man go to find a wife, assuming he’s high-beta (80th percentile charm) and wealthy? Thoughts on Poland? Hungary? Croatia?

    A number of my friends have gone to Korea and had great success, with attractive and “high class” women.

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  91. Japan, on the other hand, has a much lower baseline female attractiveness; lots of gaunt-toothy types, for example. But their extremes in beauty reach higher peaks and descend to lower lows, than they do in Korea.

    I lived in Japan and while I spent most of my time swoping the Australian expats chicks, I can confirm the observation above. Many ugly looking Japanese but when you came across a beautiful Japanese girl she was often breathtakingly beautiful. During my time there I hooked up with only a couple of Japanese girls that helped me get over my anti-Asian girl bias. Good god those women were fine. Much to my surprise, black men are something of a commodity in Tokyo too. Especially in the entertainment biz, which was the circle I travelled in.

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  92. lots of gaunt-toothy types
    They actually like that. Those bad teeth are called “Yaeba”. It’s a common fetish. I actually like them quite a bit myself.

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  93. “Korean nerds aren’t quite as hopeless as Japanese nerds because Korea still has compulsory military service “

    The fact that something like 10-20% of the South Korean economy is prostitution probably also helps them break out of their shells a little bit. Seriously: whores are everywhere. All them “barber shops” ain’t giving haircuts.

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  94. Maurice – depending on the month, we may have overlapped our time in Korea. I also did not live in Yongsan but I know it well.

    Lupo – good call on Itaewon. Skankorama.

    Cless Alvein — you’re a decade late to cash in on the eastern european mail order bride boom. But do put the “80th percentile charm” on your t-shirt and you’ll be a rock star in Moldova.

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  95. @lupo- you’re saying the same thing as LILGRL – Itaewon etc. are where those types of girls she identified hang out. also such foreigner-friendly hangouts as hotel bars and clubs, etc. don’t know how long ago you were there, and glad you cleaned up, but as a foreigner you are just not going to have access to most of the female population.

    the irish-bar thing is true for almost any expat scene: expat men do *way* better on any given local market than expat women. any of us here could identify the reasons pretty clearly. this is why american expat women in moscow, when i was there, were miserable, and american expat men thought they had died and gone to heaven.

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  96. Black men do marginally well with native women in SouthEast Asia.

    Less so in Korea and Japan — Mostly due to the bad reputations that raucous Sailors and Marines have made for all U.S. military servicemen.

    More so in the Phillipines, Malaysia, Thailand and Taiwan — Where already ethnically diverse societies tend to see black men as mostly American rather than such stereotypes as “Onyx Thug” or “Black Sexual Satyr”.

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  97. ””””””DF,
    the convenience of modern living does produce men which do not have to struggle for survival and thus can subsist with little or no effort.”””””””’

    No the lack of abillity in modern life to be a man is what is fucking it up. Only the fags and fake men can make it through unscathed. Then again who wants to live in fagland.

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  98. The Kamikaze pilots had it drilled into their heads that it was worse than death to come back alive from a Kamikaze mission. It wasn’t bravery, it was shame on them and their families if they didn’t carry it out. The fact was that they were given a stiff shot of alcohol and sent out on missions where they had enough fuel to get their and not get back. So the brass instructed them to Kamikaze. They were a tool. They were brainwashed suicide bombers. I guess it’s up to you whether or not you think thats something to be proud of. I don’t.

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  99. ””””””””Just from interacting with such teenagers and young adults on a daily basis and comparing them to their rural, foreign, more experienced and realistically raised counterparts, I shutter to think how terribly unequipped and unprepared the new generation of mainstream middle-class whites are for the challenges facing them in this new century…

    [Note: This isn’t a racial criticism, just an honest lamentation that yet another cultural facet of this country that has had a strong history is failing to adapt to an ever-changing and ever-hostile world.]
    ”””””””””””

    They are adapting all ya have to do is follow all the multitude of rules and your name doesn’t end up in system. They are being raised exactly right to live in a world with almost no freedom and where every infraction of a rule has consequences for the rest of your life. It is the ones that see “real” life that are at the disadvantage.

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  100. Its interesting to see how, if a guy from abroad comes to Hungary, how he changes personality, he is not all like the guys in the blog, but more humble, lovable person that women just adore, i hang out with plenty of expats here, and one of my best friends showed me this blog as well, he is from Canada, and has no problem getting women here and date left right and center, but then he is a charming man.
    I dont know what the point of this is, i just saw Class Alveins comment
    i think, if u are not a complete idiot you would be supersuccesful over here 🙂 (if beta with money and a good personality)

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  101. @PA: Not talking about mail-order, but educated, cultured women. The kind you have to spend a few months in a country to meet.

    What about Moldova leads you to recommend it?

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  102. I’ll agree on Itaewon as well, I hooked up with a hot girl in Itaewon while I was there.

    The big challenge in Korea is finding women who are able to talk with you in English. Itaewon is the best spot for that since it’s the international neighberhood there- the only reason girls really go there is to meet Western men.

    Hongdae looked like it was good if you are a good dancer, but it seemed like most of the places were loud clubs where it was impossible to have a conversation.

    Korea provides some real opportunities for Western men. I have one friend who went over there at the age of 24 who had not even kissed a girl- after being there for about 6 months he got married to a girl- he know has a kid lives in Korea permanently.

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  103. PA–

    Vermont dudes with ponytails and sandals;

    Most of those Vermont dudes didn’t grow up in Vermont or anyway most of their parents didn’t. It’s population replacement in Vermont. Traditional Vermonters moved out (or continued to do so, in somewhat greater volume, in search of better economic opportunities, while affluent but dropping out or laying back hippies/new age/natural foods city types moved in.)

    I spent weekends during my childhood from about age 10 on going to Vermont on year round weekends (except high spring mud season) and some summer vacations. I saw the early stages of the population replacement going on in real time.

    Since the 70s Vermont has become the leading place for kids who went to college in the NE to semi drop out to, and live a more laid back life. Natural foods, tourist industry cottage industry style (country inn, restaurant, etc.), country lawyer or doctor for those types, etc. And then of course more middle middle class jobs that these upper middle class pop replacement types opened up.

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  104. Roosh

    “Japan has no military”

    Very very wrong. $50 billion/year military.

    Still, that’s like, ACORN’s yearly Federal grant.

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  105. In “1984”, Orwell predicts society will be controlled via vast quatities of cheap beer, pornography and a national lottery…..

    The NYT did a study on these Japette guys…they call them “shut-ins” and many never leave their parents homes…..

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  106. The average Japanese soldier had the same diet in the period of the Rape of Nanking and the horrors of Manila (as bad or worse than that of Warsaw during the War). So diet is not an explanation — Japanese soldiers committed widespread rape and murder wherever and whenever they went. Using literally babies for bayonet practice. Even Hitler’s envoy to China was appalled.

    Rather, it’s women having enough money and control over fertility and their own lives to pursue Alphas. Note: it’s “World of Warcraft” not “World of Crate and Barrel.” Japanese and Western men are just substituting, because most women don’t want or need beta guys, and most guys are going to be stuck on beta.

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  107. You will “clean up” in Japan if you go to the right places, have no issues with prostitutes/escorts, and have moderate-to-low standards. As with most cultures in Asia, if you’re a westerner, you WILL NOT MEET THE MAJORITY OF WOMEN. You will meet girls who are very liberal (think, the equivalent of coastal city girls in the US), girls who are ex -prostitutes, -escorts, -etc., and girls who are generally sluts. Sorry, but it just doesn’t happen that way.

    This is correct. The girls you run into in Roppongi and Shibuya are very atypical of Japanese girls in general. Maybe 5-10% of Japanese women have interest in foreign men. However, they still way out number the number of foreign men in Japan. So, to foreign men, Japan appears to be awash in women who are interested in them even though only a small percentage really are.

    The women who hang out in places like Roppongi hills are an even smaller subset of all Japanese women who are into foreign men.

    The reality is that the vast majority of Japanese women like their own men and like them just the way they are. The women who are into foreign men are definitely outliers. Japanese culture is quite effective at creating a parallel “gaijin” subculture that exists largely separate from Japanese mainstream culture.

    Most Japanese girls are after your money if you’re a Westerner. Okay. Most girls (period) are after your money (period).

    I disagree (except for the women in Roppongi Hills). Japanese and American incomes are similar and Japanese people who this. Most of the women who are into foreign men want to have a good time or want to live a life free from the social strictures imposed by Japanese culture.

    Everything you learned in Tokyo Drift is wrong

    The latest example of Hollywood cluelessness and delusion about Japanese culture (Hollywood has NEVER, EVER gotten it right about Japan, either historical or modern).

    There is a racing subculture in Japan (I’ve known people who have been in it), both cars and motorbikes. However, this subculture is much more “Japanese” than that depicted in this movie. It also has essential zero contact and influences with similar subcultures in the west. This subculture is actually quite large, or was in the 90’s when I lived there. They used to race on the “Shuto” loop around Chiyoda-ku during late nights, until the cops shut it down. I have a friend (he was in his early 40’s at the time and had a hot American wife) who did 160Km per hour on his bike on the Tohoku expressway, at night!

    The reason there’s no compulsory military service in Japan is because…Japan has no military. Duh.

    No. They actually do have a well equipped military. But the total personnel is limited to around 100,000, most of them being career soldiers. Japan has no mandatory conscription, unlike South Korea.

    Hostess bars are reminiscent of geisha. Geisha (who still exist) were never, ever prostitutes. It’s a cultural thing. Think a strip club, except with less nakedness. Same result. Bad example of herbation.

    The mizu-shobai, as its called, is an aspect of Japanese culture of which there is no western equivalent at all. There is no sex involved (except in rare cases). The men all go there on company expense accounts to get drunk and socialize with colleagues (the enforced group behavior makes it impossible to socialize at work in any other context) with the women existing to serve the men drinks and to stroke their egos. It is also common to take customers and suppliers on these outings as well. The mizu-shobai allows one to reinforce business relationships with ones’ customers and suppliers. It is a part of Japanese business culture, not social life.

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  108. @whiskey-

    “World of Crate and Barrel.”

    LOL. Reminds me of that episode of “Mad About You” when Helen Hunt used a hypothetical virtual-reality machine to get Paul Reiser to admit he was wrong. Really? *that’s* what you would do if you could create your own reality??? *that’s* as far as your imagination goes? gee, no wonder women almost never make any scientific or creative breakthroughs.

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  109. PA

    My theory is that when a society reaches a point at which all survival and comfort needs are satiated and seem immovably secure, masculinity is seen as a pathology, and men dandify and soften.

    This theory is work-in-progress on my part, more off-the-cuff than thoroughly thought out…

    This is an interesting germ of a theory that could be right.

    I’d take that core and modify thus:

    When a society has reached the point you suggest, all manner of cultural spinning out of hard edged competitive mode is made possible and temporarily viable. A society doesn’t HAVE to devalue masculine men under these circumstances and some may not. Latin American upper classes are pretty different from American ones for example.

    But a society that’s achieved the security you describe (the key thing really is that it thinks it has, or that it has for it’s elites) CAN devalue masculine men.

    Or it can have an official ideology of doing so, so that most men are encouraged to be week in competing with or for women, while a few of the more genuinely hyper masculine men, or those enough that who are also cleaver enough to figure out or listen to those who have figured out the score remain to be exciting for hot or even just hottish girls.

    I would guess the reason Japan has gone as far as it has compared to America, despite 1) having a far less feminist culture than America does and 2) there being a far greater earnings gap in Japan including among Gen Y than there is in America, is this. 1) traditional Japanese marriage roles which have not changed radically once marriage actually occurs are now a lot LESS attractive to Japanese women (even though they’re a lot less feminist than American women) than American marriage roles are to American women; and 2) Japanese girls have a considerably lower sex drive than American girls. This last results in fewer sluts chasing fewer alphas for casual or semi casual sex, but also in less pressure for good girls to be in a bf relationship if they can’t find a guy that does excite their naturally tougher to excite gina tingles.

    Thus a lot more Japanese girls aren’t having any sex at all, but instead living at home and spending all their money on shopping and looking cute and won’t deliver flirting. Remove the traditional pressure to marry early and be a good traditional Japanese housewife, and Japanese girls don’t need men at all, so long as their families will keep on letting them live at home.

    If it turns out that Tokyo urban girls 20-35 are actually having more sex than e.g. NY and LA girls in the same age range are (and that’s not just because they’re being more honest about it), then this theory of mine is shot all to hell.

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  110. Roosh —

    It’s a self-defense force. Not the same. Brush up on that WWII history.

    What’s a military that can’t attack?

    (Heh. Beta!)

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  111. Thus a lot more Japanese girls aren’t having any sex at all, but instead living at home and spending all their money on shopping and looking cute and won’t deliver flirting. Remove the traditional pressure to marry early and be a good traditional Japanese housewife, and Japanese girls don’t need men at all, so long as their families will keep on letting them live at home.

    Good observation. Girls don’t have to slut it up with alphas to affect the sexual marketplace. If they can’t have an alpha to themselves, a lot of the good girls will prefer celibacy. I see this a lot with church girls. They aren’t going to bars and clubs, but a lot of them aren’t dating their peers either.

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  112. 2) Japanese girls have a considerably lower sex drive than American girls.

    I don’t think this is true.

    good traditional Japanese housewife

    You’d be surprised at Japanese marriages — it’s very close to real matriarchy. If you’re ever in a relationship, as a Japanese man, with a Japanese woman, you’ll very quickly realize that traditional Japanese women are much more “ball-busting bitches” (though — and this is important — not feminists, because they realized a long time ago where the real power lies) than your typical American female.

    there being a far greater earnings gap in Japan including among Gen Y than there is in America

    Is this true? Cite something, please. Last I heard, Gen Y of Japan wasn’t doing crap — male or female.

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  113. nycsamurai, the feminist movement never caught on there—its largely Irish and Jewish-female driven, as those two cultures are both hegemonic here and also have a long history of matriarchial dominance.

    Typical Jewish dissimulation. Downplay overwhelmingly overrepresented Jewish involvement, leadership, and character in something corrosive like feminism by throwing in non-Jewish group.

    Usually it’s WASPs or something, but I guess the Irish are being thrown in as well now.

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  114. You’d be surprised at Japanese marriages — it’s very close to real matriarchy.

    In Japan, the wife controls the family finances, as well as most other aspect of family life. Western guys who marry Japanese women learn this often to their surprise.

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  115. Most Japanese girls I have met have cartoonishly feminine personalities anyways. They act like pre pubertal Marilyn Monroes. What exactly are Japanese guys expecting of real women?

    Like


  116. You’d be surprised at Japanese marriages — it’s very close to real matriarchy. If you’re ever in a relationship, as a Japanese man, with a Japanese woman, you’ll very quickly realize that traditional Japanese women are much more “ball-busting bitches”

    this is true and absolutely ignored around here. Here people think like liberals, abotu good, honored and pure men who are abused by women.

    the thing is, traditional marriage, whetever monogamy was enforced, ended up in 80% of cases with the women ruling the men, as the book Ricky Raw recommended said (“The anatomy of female power”)

    once pressure to marry evaportaed, the harsh reality of 80% of men being betas hit the world hard

    Like


  117. the thing is, traditional marriage, whetever monogamy was enforced, ended up in 80% of cases with the women ruling the men, as the book Ricky Raw recommended said (”The anatomy of female power”)

    Very true, but because in a traditional society a woman’s interests were wrapped up almost completely with the man’s, she was much more likely to act in ways that benefitted them both.

    Like


  118. I think that SPengler, as supremacist Jew as they get, said it best: “in every place and every time, men and women exactly deserve each other”

    Like


  119. I haven’t read any of the comments, so I may be repeating someone else. However, you and the Western press don’t know squat about Japan Roissy.

    Something the Western gets right, even though it’s only a reguritation of a UN finding.

    A refutation of the 25% of men between the ages of 30-34 are virgins.

    Like


  120. ”””’once pressure to marry evaportaed, the harsh reality of 80% of men being betas hit the world hard””””’

    Instead of beta we should start using the word pussy and its higher than 80 percent.

    Like


  121. Like


  122. ””””””’Is this true? Cite something, please. Last I heard, Gen Y of Japan wasn’t doing crap — male or female.”””””””””””””

    They have 25 percent of worlds savings gen y shouldn’t have to do anything.

    Like


  123. on October 5, 2009 at 5:18 pm Carolus Reconditus

    Hi nycsamurai,

    Can you name just one ethnic Irish feminist of international repute?

    Just one.

    If you can manage to find two or three I’ll eat my Aran sweater

    Like


  124. Whiskey said:

    “The average Japanese soldier had the same diet in the period of the Rape of Nanking and the horrors of Manila (as bad or worse than that of Warsaw during the War). ”

    But the average Japanese herbivore hasn’t been exposed to the extrodinary brutality and humiliation that every enlisted man in the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy suffered since his first day of military training, nor to the terror of actual combat. Defenseless civilians, and soldier who have surrendered their arms are convenient targets for pent up rage and frustration.

    Like


  125. But the average Japanese herbivore hasn’t been exposed to the extrodinary brutality and humiliation

    If Sodini, Dylan Klebold, Mohamed Atta and even our resident losers like AJ Travis, TJF and Lucifer offer any hint, modern men who cannot get laid would, given the chance, unleash another Nanking if they could.

    Like


  126. Jap men ? Feminising for the same reasons as men everywhere. Food, urbanisation, disdain for physical contact sports…see also italian men.

    Like


  127. ” Carolus Reconditus
    Hi nycsamurai,

    Can you name just one ethnic Irish feminist of international repute?

    Just one.

    If you can manage to find two or three I’ll eat my Aran sweater”
    —that was me.

    Patricia Ireland.

    Joan Walsh.

    Tracy Clark-Foley.

    Like


  128. on October 5, 2009 at 5:58 pm gunslingergregi

    Oh no Lurker came off the top rope.

    Like


  129. One more:

    Terry O’Neill.

    Face it, dude: Irish women be bitches.

    Like


  130. gunslingergregi,

    And with a foreign object to. To the back of the head.

    Eat up, Carolus.

    Like


  131. A little peripheral but have you noticed that even kids are treated by adults based on the adult alpha/beta dichotomy for boys and general prettiness for girls. Kids with natural game are lapped up by female relatives.

    Like


  132. Who the hell denies that there are Irish feminists? The majority of Western women today of various ethnic backgrounds are de facto feminists. This is irrelevant. The overwhelmingly overrepresented Jewish involvement, leadership, and character is a separate issue.

    There are millions of Indonesian and Malaysian Muslims. This doesn’t make Islam an Austronesian religion, movement, ideology, etc.

    Like


  133. Lackland, my argument was that jewish and irish women tend to lead the movement in the US, because their cultures are matriarchial in nature.

    Japanese feminists largely don’t exist, mainly because their cultures are patriarchial.

    Like


  134. I think that SPengler, as supremacist Jew as they get, said it best: “in every place and every time, men and women exactly deserve each other”

    Spengler is like a character straight out of one of Kevin MacDonald’s books. See here [pdf].

    Like


  135. lurker

    “nycsamurai, the feminist movement never caught on there—its largely Irish and Jewish-female driven, as those two cultures are both hegemonic here and also have a long history of matriarchial dominance.

    In Japanese culture, men have traditionally been held superior/in charge, and a patriarchial cultural woudl find feminine dominane and aberration.”

    I don’t know about the Jewish women, but you left out the American women of Scandanavian descent, the Norwegians, German and Swedish. These women are bigtime matriarchial/feminist types while the men of these races are real quiet and let them get away with their big mouths but eventually end up divorcing them anyway, heck just look at those countries today. But they get passed over because most of white America is descended from them. As for the Irish banshee, yeah they’re crazy but luckily there is not too many of them in America.

    Like


  136. Uncle Gabby said:

    “What normally happens when economies stagnate and men cannot find jobs to provide for themselves and their familes? The crime rate skyrockets. Most men do not submit to their own genetic death like sheep. But they do in Japan because they are fed a testosterone killing diet. You only object to this because you are a vegetarian.

    ‘It’s not low levels of testosterone based on a high soy diet, LOL. If that’s the case, then why do Asians make up 20% of the world’s population? What accounts for the continuing rise of China? Don’t see a trend of docility there.’

    People work their asses off in China because they don’t want to starve to death.”

    ***********
    No, I’m not a vegetarian. I love a good steak and find vegetarians a humorless lot, on the whole.

    The diet of the average Japanese person has become quite Westernized in recent decades, i.e., lots more protein and Western ways of preparing dishes. There was a study that showed that, within one generation, the height of the average Japanese male shot up by 5 inches or something crazy like that (for females, the height increase was around 2 inches). The study attributed this to diet. However, it also noted that, with all that McDonald’s food getting consumed, rates of heart disease, cancer, obesity, etc. also went up. Surely you have heard of this trend in countries which have Westernized their diets?

    And yet all that extra red meat and its purported testosterone-enhancing, manliness-boosting effects somehow have not saved the young Japanese men of today from their current loveless, herby existence …? Hmmm. Well, at least they’re taller now than those soy-eating samurai.

    If only it were as simple as elevating one’s testosterone level, through diet or otherwise. Has a lifetime of eating double cheeseburgers increased any random white guy’s alpha-tude, as opposed to expanding his gut? Would administering steroids to Japanese men pull the country out of its beta doldrums, as opposed to increasing aggressive, criminal behavior? Does Japan simply need to go on the Atkins diet? R-i-i-i-g-h-t . . . . .

    As for China, they work their asses off because they see what their gangbusters economy will get them if they do. A young Chinese man living in a one-room concrete dorm room, toiling away in a factory, but saving money and coming up with ways to start a factory of his own and dreaming of someday occupying the penthouse of a Shanghai high-rise (or similar abode), feels the thrill of more alpha blood running through his veins than a burger-munching, comics-reading, parents-hating, internet- porn-addicted Japanese guy jerking off to hentai in the air-conditioned comfort of his mom’s basement. Or an American guy doing the same.

    In short: It’s not the soybeans. It’s the economy, stupid.

    Like


  137. gig,

    Nanking could be improved upon.

    Like


  138. But Japan still makes the only video games worth playing…

    Like


  139. The phenomenon of japanese ‘herbivores’ has nothing to do with diet, testosterone or any pseudo-biological BS.

    If anything, the average japanese is much better fed than at any time in their history. Western style influences in their diets (beef, pork, milk products) and affluence (more meat consumption) has increased their protein consumption over the last few decades. The market for porn in japan also belies any testosterone based explanation.

    The real reasons behind this phenomenon are social, some peculiar to asian societies, others universal.

    Like


  140. Stud:

    “As for the Irish banshee, yeah they’re crazy but luckily there is not too many of them in America.”
    —um, Stud? Irish American people are the second most numerous, after Germans:

    http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ADPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-ds_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_&-_lang=en&-_caller=geoselect&-format=

    The scandinavian and Germanic cultures were mostly patriarchial throughout history; the recent shift to sitting-when-you-pee in Scandinavia is sad, but ahistorical.

    Like


  141. Fair enough Lurker. I just run into more women that are Scandanavian, probably a product of region. As for your second comment I am aware of that too, I meant in the present tense.

    Like


  142. Nanking could be improved upon.

    that’s my boy!!

    Like


  143. on October 5, 2009 at 7:12 pm 54-Year-Old-Virgin

    Remember when Chou-en Lai offered Henry Kissinger like about a million young nubile Chinese girls to take home? Tho the offer was tongue in cheek,they had and have a scarey population problem.So… Send a bunch of Chinese country hotties–stump jumpers from the sticks–who dont know any better and will do anything they are told. The J-guys will look like Warren Beatty,theyll have families and the bad boys and the Yakuza can take the spoiled Japanese bitches! (BTW do the Yakuza still chop off a bruthas finger if he fucks up? The widespread dissemination of David Shades Masterful Lover program may put a damper on that!)

    Like


  144. Here are some cultural parallels Pupu sees:

    The Chinese The French
    The Japanese The Germans
    The Koreans The Irish or the Balkans

    Pupu knows many people would think this is b-sh-t. Hey, that is Pupu.

    Like


  145. Pupu Golightly:

    Pupu knows many people would think this is b-sh-t. Hey, that is Pupu.

    You forgot:

    The U.S., Brazil

    Like


  146. on October 5, 2009 at 7:35 pm this_is_sparta!!

    you guys have no idea what you’re talking about. what is it about japan that makes people instant experts on it? the population decline in japan is, in my opinion, a result of certain social mechanisms fostering relationships, marriage, and (eventually) reproduction which disappeared, leaving nothing in their place. japanese people work crazy hours for shit money, and the tacit acceptance of having to live at home until marriage, as well as parents’ hamstringing of their adult childrens’ freedom through feelings of obligation, dependence, and shame further hampers their options. changing social roles and gender identity also havent helped help; the social and cultural implications are far more complicated than anyone on here apparently realizes.. the lack of military service is ridiculous too. while japanese are admittedly “heiwa boke”, so are most americans even if they pretend otherwise.

    if you walk around tokyo you will see what a bunch of raging metros japanese guys are, but j-girls dig that. they consider it “fashionable”. the weirdo japanese guys in the post above, while numerous, are not representative of most japanese guys. waifish hipsters are en vogue here in japan.

    that said, japanese guys with game clean house. it’s a very different kind of game though. running american style game on j-girls will only work with a small cross-section of the population because a lot of the buttons you need to hit are different. that said, there are still some universals (relative social value, etc) which are the same. however, most japanese guys who are actually out there trying to get some action have zero game. they brutally cockblock, get chicks drunk, and do the ole’ sleep ‘n’ creep, nammean.

    ps: whoever said that interracial relationships in Japan are stigmatized is full of shit. maybe in the countryside. most people dont give a shit and think it’s pretty cool, though they’re a little slow to accept black people (and koreans :p) but hey, wtf do i know. ive only lived and studied in japan for over 6 years, worked in bars, and chased countless amounts of tail.

    Like


  147. Tupac,

    Yes, the land of promise, and it will always be.

    Miss Golightly had flown to Rio.

    Like


  148. Maybe there is nothing wrong with these men. Maybe they are doing the smart thing.

    During WW II, normal men went off to fight, and get killed. Abnormal men avoided the war.

    Who was right?

    Like


  149. Hey gig,

    Couple weeks ago I fucked one of my former flings – a brazilian chick. Carioca. She swallowed my load. Said she likes gringos better than Brazilians. She said they’re stupid.

    Like


  150. Gig:

    There is a lot of truth in that, and Miss Carioca admits to it, but Roosh is totally wrong about the lack of sensuality and beauty in my case. All this chick loves to do is fuck and ride my cock like she’s dancing on it. She doesn’t expect anything else out of me. She’s told me she worries about her horniness sometimes. Maybe I should give her your number to take her off my hands.

    Like


  151. In Response to Caligula :

    Your link is broken. Let me repost it for you:

    http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/2009/10/05/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/

    Let me just say — As a young black man, those statistics sting just a bit as they mirror my real life experiences and similar experiences of friends of mine.

    Taking all this in however, I’m now thinking that there SHOULD be a new type of taught “Game” aimed at black men that want to successfully cross racial and cultural bounds sans the company and sexual involvement of lower-tier girls of those respective races and cultures.

    So let me ask this question: For fellow NAMs and AMs, how do y’all deal with picking up women of other races?

    Like


  152. Ruby

    So let me ask this question: For fellow NAMs and AMs, how do y’all deal with picking up women of other races?

    10 homies, 6 guns and one batting order card

    Like


  153. because it’s called a “self defense force” you think it’s not considered a military? lol
    1984, orwell, etc.

    Like


  154. you guys have no idea what you’re talking about. what is it about japan that makes people instant experts on it?

    SRSLY.

    Like


  155. What do you know, LIL’LIAR?

    Like


  156. A few things to consider about business life in Japan and its contribution to this phenomenon.

    a) The Japanese economy saw fantastic post-war growth primarily because of a government-planned export driven manufacturing economy. No significant entrepreneurship took place in the way it does in the US, or, to a lesser extent, in other countries. Men in business learned to find their place in the master plan and execute it, not run risks.

    b) The Japanese decision making culture in business is that of consensus-building. Men are taught not to question the majority’s desire and to avoid confrontation. An interesting case is that of Nissan’s turnaround under the leadership of Carlos Ghosn (a brazilian). While analyzing this case, Japanese colleagues agreed that it took an outsider to ignore the status quo and existing rules to bring about much needed change. The incumbent leadership was unable to break this cycle of consensual decision making.

    Like


  157. Natasha F. said:

    some interesting stuff and some more craziness.

    First, I never said that America was the model for the high Testosterone diet. And you need to drop the binary thinking. The choice isn’t between vegetarianism and McDonalds, or the Fatkins diet. Humans evolved eating meat, vegetables and fruit. Unfortunately, that is not the “western diet” as you call it, or at least it isn’t anymore. In the last 40-50 years, from bacon and eggs to sugary sweet cereal for breakfast, and the average american man has shrunk an inch and our average life expectancy is going down, not up. And yet our doctors keep pushing grains down our throat like we’re cattle being fattened for the slaughter, and there’s fucking high fructose corn syrup in everything.

    Of course your average Japanese gain five inches when you’re compairing them to their protein deficient ancestors. But no one should immitate the US if they want to keep their balls healthy.

    Second -I’ll bow to your point that having a growing economy that offers the chance for personal gain is far betting than having a stagnant economy in which the average man doesn’t think he can get ahead. But the average Chinese man isn’t thinking about opening his own factory, he works 90+ hours a week for $1 an hour because he doesn’t want to starve to death. The Japanese have reached a level of material wealth and security that the Chinese can only dream about. That material wealth gives young Japanese betas a choice to drop out that their Chinese counterparts don’t have.

    Like


  158. All the reasons that are posted are probably guesses, or even the imagination conjured up by the mind. There could be several reasons, but my guess would be that Japanese men found another way to satisfy their appetite, so to say.
    Examples are..
    -building robots that look like Japanese women
    -consuming themselves with so much porn that a woman becomes obsolete.
    – and so on..

    Someone said once that if there weren’t any women we would live in utopia. Because as soon you add a woman to the equation everything goes wrong. Even if the Japanese men did learn game I seriously doubt that would help them. I wouldn’t mind if the Japanese continue with their robot designs and produce a female android. No diseases, she gives it up to you any time and if you want a challange, just switch her on to bitchy mode.

    Yes, if they continue this path they will be extinct, but who cares. How long do you expect our species to live. We got to die out eventually. It’s either this or some stupid war that gets started by 2 guys fighting over one pussy.

    Like


  159. Silver Fox

    In “1984″, Orwell predicts society will be controlled via vast quatities of cheap beer, pornography and a national lottery…..

    even though he sounds like a Democrat, this orwell guy’s sure got my vote in 2012

    Like


  160. Tupac —

    Wo, A.J. in the hizzouse.

    Dude, I’ve spent a good 18 or so years learning about Japanese culture.

    Like


  161. I don’t believe anything a L’ILLIAR says.

    Like


  162. @ Tupca

    your sudden outburst of anger makes me slightly suspicious that your balls havent been swallowed by a sexy girl. also, your nicknaming of LILGRL as LI’LIAR wasn’t exactly cool, to sáy the least. People here may check here profile and wonder if she does’nt know more about Japan than the average poster ……

    I first thought that my slight anti-semitic comment unleashed your anger, but then you turned on LILGRL , so I ask you, what is hurting you so deeply?

    Like


  163. I’m just fucking with you Gig.

    I like you.

    And no, I have no particular love for Jews.

    Where did you get that idea.

    Boiola.

    Like


  164. But, yes, everything happened exactly as I described.

    I just felt like crowing about it.

    Sue me.

    Like


  165. HA! “boiola” LOL!
    gig may be a lot of things but boiola hm…I guess not Tupac.

    Like


  166. on October 5, 2009 at 10:01 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    “Why is somebody from a declining country (England) telling me this?”

    I loled at this. It’s sort of true though… lower class english men, chavs, have reacted to the new way things are by thugging it up, selling drugs, and killing people to get women. That might be worse than Japanese retreating into porn and anime, but anime is just so fucking gay I have a hard time convincing myself of this.

    Like


  167. Uncle Gabby said:

    First, I never said that America was the model for the high Testosterone diet. And you need to drop the binary thinking. The choice isn’t between vegetarianism and McDonalds, or the Fatkins diet. Humans evolved eating meat, vegetables and fruit. Unfortunately, that is not the “western diet” as you call it, or at least it isn’t anymore. In the last 40-50 years, from bacon and eggs to sugary sweet cereal for breakfast, and the average american man has shrunk an inch and our average life expectancy is going down, not up. And yet our doctors keep pushing grains down our throat like we’re cattle being fattened for the slaughter, and there’s fucking high fructose corn syrup in everything.

    Of course your average Japanese gain five inches when you’re compairing them to their protein deficient ancestors. But no one should immitate the US if they want to keep their balls healthy.

    *********

    I agree 100% that the average U.S. diet is unhealthy, if current obesity rates mean anything. But your original point was that modern Japanese men’s herbiness was “simply” due to their high-carb, high-soy diet, relative to, I presume, the American diet. I mean, really?? Are you a spokesman for the national beef ranchers’ industry or something?

    So what to you is the ideal diet? Whatever it is, I’d still wager that the diet of the average Japanese person, carbs, soy, and all, is still healthier — in terms of living a long, low-disease, low-infirmity life — than just about any other nation’s. Everytime you read a news story about the oldest damn 113-year-old person in the world, it’s a little old man on a Japanese island.

    Things aren’t so, in your words, “simple” after all.

    Like


  168. How long do you expect our species to live. We got to die out eventually. It’s either this or some stupid war that gets started by 2 guys fighting over one pussy.

    No truer word. Good meta-analysis.

    Like


  169. Whiskey wrote:

    “Rather, it’s women having enough money and control over fertility and their own lives to pursue Alphas. Note: it’s “World of Warcraft” not “World of Crate and Barrel.” Japanese and Western men are just substituting, because most women don’t want or need beta guys, and most guys are going to be stuck on beta.”

    This is probably about right. When women have enough money to have apartments/houses and go bar hopping, they almost inevitably wind up getting passed around by the top 20% of men for ten years after college (roughly 22-32), and then are really resentful that they have to “settle” for a man in their own percentile of attractiveness (if she is in the top 45% and he is in the top 45%, she is dissappointed and thinks she should have been able to do better because she got to fuck plenty of guys in the top 20% in her younger years), and end up only having TIME to have one kid. The first generation to do this probably saw a lot of divorces, which the next generation of men observed……………..so they hold off until their late 30’s to marry making sure she can only have ONE kid because he doesn’t want the risk of a second one.

    I hate to say this on a game blog, but if you want to see birthrates rebound…………..close all the bars and legally punish premarital sex. Make the top 20% of alphas settle for one girl, and marry that girl. Then the women who are from the top 21% down to the the top 65% will HAVE to settle.

    Men dont complain about getting dates/having girlfriends in high school, because the top guys can only have ONE girlfriend, forcing the lesser girls to choose one of the rest of the guys if they want a boyfriend at all. But if you let the top 20% of men string along 3 girls each constantly for months on end, they are tying-up the top 60% of women most of the time. The gals get desperate after about age 31, but by then the “average” guys are good-and-pissed off about several six-month long dry spells and have developed a bad attitude towards females in general. Ridiculous divorce-theft-bonanza laws make them more apprehensive still. They are glad to see Jennifer Anniston’s go childless (and really glad to see the same chicks who used to snub them end up begging them for dates when they are in their mid-thirties). The situation we have now in developed countries ends up putting emnity between man and woman.

    Its not going to end though for at least another generation. We will probably have a breeding generation about half the size of the current one in another 30 years, and I imagine the umpteenth generation feminists will (when they are getting seriously outnumbered ethnically and the data cascade is overwhelming) start to look long and hard at what they have advocated and how its ended up being a de facto 100-year natal genocide of advanced nations. Then there will be the political will to do something drastic (if science doesn’t step into the void first). I imagine Japan will be a nation of about 80 million of so before the powers that be there step in and do something.

    BTW—-there was a fascinationg article in the American Conservative about what happened to the Persian Empire (Sassanid) and how they had (like one commenter here once said) wife swapping and communism as advocated by one influential prophet. It hurt the birthrate and softened the populace in the 5th century AD there, making them easy pickings for Islam. Persia used to be the most liberated place in the ancient world (and probably the wealthiest), but the “carnival” wrecked it near the end. The baboon-pack social arrangements we see out there now are probably just a characteristic of late-stage civilizations as they are in their last century before they fall to younger, hungrier groups.

    Like


  170. man it’s probably because they got nuked (twice) and the fallout is still in the water supply

    Like


  171. I´ve been living for 4 years in Japan, and most of the causes for herbization here are quite accurate.

    But I tell you something guys: Even alphas here suck. Japanese people, don´t matter how alpha (which normally equals metro here) just don´t have sex. Been told thousands of time of people having never fucked more than once in one night, guys holding girls hand and just sleeping. Or guys having weird fetishes with saguaros and stuff. Its creepy.

    A good friend of mine asked me what was wrong with her boyfriend, a rich guy with game, who would sleep next to her with a boner and don´t touch her! “What should I do to make him fuck me?”

    Guys, if any of you can master japanese game (its very hard, but doable) you get ALL the pussy in the world. And its grateful, passionate pussy. They´ll worship your cock.

    Like


  172. ruby that was one hell of an article on okcupid’s racial preferences; mind blowing really but totally in line with what is known on the subject.

    Like


  173. anybody who really thinks white men are getting the short end of the dating/sex stick needs to read ruby’s article: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/2009/10/05/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/

    Like


  174. Great link freak show.

    Like


  175. Japanese militarism during WW II did NOT rely on Japanese men being “alpha”. Pray tell, how is being a rank and file soldier in a modern war “alpha”? What the hell has that got to do with social dominance? The strenghts of the Imperial Japanese Army relied on the very “beta” traits of its soldiers. The Japanese have always had a very low threshold for experiencing shame. The Japanese military forces had very harsh discipline. The Japanese conscript fighting in WW II would rather die than be captured because of an intense fear of social death resulting capture.

    Like


  176. KOREAN BIRTHRATE (probably) WORLD’S LOWEST…

    …but nobody actually seems to know for sure how many babies are REALLY being born; check a variety of

    sources for yourself, online, and you will see significant discrepancies in reported fertility rates. For example:

    1. From The Korea Times: “The [World Health Organization]’s annual health statistics for 2008 showed

    Wednesday that the birth rate, or the number of babies a woman gives birth to during her lifetime, was 1.2 for

    Korea as of 2006.”

    2. From a 2008 paper by a member of a major Korean economic think tank, the Korea Development Institute:

    “Fertility rate for Korea in 2004 is 1.08 (1.13 in ’05), the lowest level in the world”

    3. The Korea National Statistical Office reports a fertility rate of 1.5 for the year 2000, and projects 1.2 for the

    year 2010.

    4. A 2006 Korea Times article states that “the National Statistical Office (NSO) has announced that the South Korea’s total fertility rate dropped to 1.08 last year, and reports the number of newborns has also dropped nearly 8 percent to 438,000. The fertility rate is the lowest in the world, and broke South Korea’s 2004 record of 1.16.”

    In any case it’s clear that Koreans are now among the most baby-averse nations on Earth.

    Sources:

    1. http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/05/117_24521.html

    2. “International Conference on Public Finance/Social Security System and Intergenerational Issues in De-

    Population” — Tokyo, June 3, 2008; this paper in particular is “Economic Impacts of Demographic Changes in

    Korea”, by Hyung-Pyo Moon of the Korea Development Institute (a major economic think tank first set up in

    1971). Download here: http://www.mof.go.jp/jouhou/soken/kenkyu/h20/adbi0806/s_e_07.pdf

    3. OECD Economic Surveys: Korea 2007. Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Find it

    on books.google.com.

    4. The Korea Herald, “Birthrate hits record low”, by Ko Kyoung-tae, 08/25/2006 (use Korea Herald’s archive search)

    Like


  177. Chinese men are tough, but not as tough as Koreans. The Chinese are becoming soft over time as well. The Koreans are the toughest of the three nationalities. Also, China has below replacement birthrate, though higher than Japan and South Korea (N. Korea’s birthrate is non-existent). China will not be invading anyone anytime soon.

    No shit, Sherlock. The Chinese are not clamoring for WW III and a nuclear holocaust for themselves and everyone else on the planet.

    Like


  178. on October 6, 2009 at 7:23 am almost 40 year old virgin

    So let me get this straight.

    The guy (or even people here) who compulsively has to nail one broad after the other, makes fun of the “herbification” of Japanese men. Who decided that ANYTHING is better than to bend over backwards for some chick. Just so that you are allowed to rut in her for a bit, and have to endure her inanes for the other 95% of the time ?

    Talk about having it back asswards.

    At least these “herbs” are staying true to themselves(however fruity it is) and don´t have to CONSTANTLY game some slut. Just so she doesn´t loose interest in the sacred dick.
    Yes, I know.
    It doesn´t matter if the poon jumps ship, there´s always another one the horizon.

    Talk about waste of time.

    Fuck, even the make believe “experience” bar in WOW shows you more accomplishment than this endless procession of failed relationships(aka fucks).

    Usually I love these posts. But often you brush with to broad a stroke roissy.

    Like


  179. “If China wanted to invade and occupy an aging and increasingly celibate cartoon porn-addicted Japan right now, they would find an easy go of it.”

    And it would be pretty sweet revenge for all the fucked up shit the Japanese have done to them, like, you know, the rape of nanjing, etc…

    Like


  180. on October 6, 2009 at 7:36 am almost 40 year old virgin

    @kurt9&Marku
    “China will not be invading anyone anytime soon.

    No shit, Sherlock. The Chinese are not clamoring for WW III and a nuclear holocaust for themselves and everyone else on the planet.”

    No shit you two Sherlocks. I wonder what the Chinese communist bureau has in store the 37 MILLION surplus Chinese men.

    http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90776/90882/6212115.html

    Like


  181. But, yes, everything happened exactly as I described

    LOL

    Brag to me about banging Brazilian girls, given where I live, is not exactly a winning strategy !!! Even more given Roosh´s analysis of the diaspora in the US and the sort of comparative advantage I enjoy. Brag to Lucifer, he likes it ! He´ll answer you that he banged an escort who told him she had never seen a bigger penis before

    Like


  182. I wonder what the Chinese communist bureau has in store the 37 MILLION surplus Chinese men

    same thing the Japs are doing with their men (though there ain´t a surplus of them): video games, ever more realistic porn, take home food, ever faster broadband internet connection.

    the high carb diet, as take home food, also serves to keep the population fat and lazy, even more ashamed of going out and easy to control.

    Opium and Marijuana will also help keep China´s excess males lethargic and dumb, as it always had. Guys I know who smoked pot regularly from 15 to 25 moved from Pentium 4 to 486 in terms of mental speed.

    Like


  183. Natasha F said:

    “But your original point was that modern Japanese men’s herbiness was “simply” due to their high-carb, high-soy diet, relative to, I presume, the American diet. I mean, really??”

    You have the attention span of a gerbil. We just went over that.

    “So what to you is the ideal diet? Whatever it is, I’d still wager that the diet of the average Japanese person, carbs, soy, and all, is still healthier — in terms of living a long, low-disease, low-infirmity life — than just about any other nation’s.”

    There you go advocating vegetarianism again. Carbs and soy are what the medical profession and the main stream media is shoving down our throats and we are only getting fatter. But no one here besides you is talking about over all health or longevity. We are talking about testosterone levels.

    Listen fruitcake, which part of basic biology do you deny? That hormone production is dependant on diet, or that hormone levels affect personality? Find the flaw in your thinking and educate yourself. I’d post links, but it’s obvious that this conversation has wasted enough of my time already.

    Like


  184. I’ve only tried to Game one Brasileira, which was here in the US. She was full-blooded german by descent, but had a very pretty Portuguese first name and that languid, sensual, slightly lispy manner and way of talking that was 100% Brazil.

    This was before I knew of Game. She was working at at office near mine, and showed early signs of interest. We had lunch, things were going well, but then out of the blue she dropped the B-bomb. (“my boyfriend blah blah”). I probably did a beta error unawares.

    Like


  185. “The only conclusion one can come to is that our World needs more Yukio Mishimas and Varg Vikerneses. (both Alpha?)”

    The latter was an arsonist and convicted murderer (I stabbed him 23 times in self-defense!) and the former frequented gay bars and seemed to prefer the pole to the hole. Your call.

    Like


  186. on October 6, 2009 at 10:29 am this_is_sparta!!

    “roosh
    because it’s called a “self defense force” you think it’s not considered a military? lol
    1984, orwell, etc.”

    oh shit, is roosh talking out of his ass about something? that’s new.

    read article 9 of the japanese constitution.

    being in the JSDF is a low status, low paying job. they are underfunded and generally uninterested in what they do. shame, dependence, and blame avoidance makes them a pretty ineffective force. so does the fact that the constitution prevents them from identifying themselves as a military, having military ranks, etc..

    you knew this already though right? cuz you’re a buddhist now? stick to beefy farts and not getting pussy. it’s much more your speed.

    Like


  187. on October 6, 2009 at 10:36 am this_is_sparta!!

    ps: yukio mishima was a pedophile

    Like


  188. No shit you two Sherlocks. I wonder what the Chinese communist bureau has in store the 37 MILLION surplus Chinese men.

    I’m pretty sure it doesn’t have in store for them the full-scale nuclear holocaust of the Earth, which an invasion of South Korea or Japan would no doubt invite. If you think WW III is going to be like WW I, think again. Manpower needs in conventional warfare have gone consistently down during the past century or so, thanks to increasingly more powerful weapon systems and the economics of war.

    Like


  189. almost 40 year old virgin

    I wonder what the Chinese communist bureau has in store the 37 MILLION surplus Chinese men.

    Replacement NYC cabbies and a
    new Dem voting bloc for Schumer & Obama

    Like


  190. The Japanese along with 90% of humanity, it appears, is simply zombified by media. This is nothing new.

    Like


  191. “ps: yukio mishima was a pedophile”

    Surely a hebophile (attracted to post-pubescent adolescents) instead of a pedo, he apparently liked them young, but only after their balls dropped. I’d never heard of him being into kids. He was also into all kinds of sado-maso kinkiness.
    The Schrader movie about him was pretty cool, especially the stylized story sections ( with Kyoko’s House being the best – too bad there’s not more of it on a popular video site).

    A strange, disturbing genius was Mishima, but I can’t think of anyone who’d want him as a role model.

    Like


  192. No shit, Sherlock. The Chinese are not clamoring for WW III and a nuclear holocaust for themselves and everyone else on the planet.

    China’s working age population peaks around 2013, then gradually declines. Their total population peaks around 2030 or so. China may have an excess of 37 million males. However, that is a small percentage of the total population of young people. Probably around 11 guys for every 10 women, which is not that big of deal. India and Pakistan are much worse, with a male/female birth ratio of 1.3.-1.4 to 1.

    I expect China to continue to growth economically (and technologically) and to remain a relatively peaceful society. I expect much different for South Asia (both India and Pakistan), including a possible nuclear war.

    Don’t worry about China. Worry about South Asia instead.

    Like


  193. Cliff Arroyo

    a hebephile (attracted to post-pubescent adolescents)

    This is why I find KassyK so irresistible:
    That minx is a double threat

    Like


  194. on October 6, 2009 at 5:42 pm You Know I'm Right

    A main problem in Japan is overcrowding. The Japanese elite even realized this 75+ years ago, hence the reason why they started wars in order to try and take over more land in Asia.

    Overcrowding has devastating social effects – you ought to look it up. In John Calhoun’s experiments with rats, what happened to experimentally overcrowded rat colonies is basically the same thing that is happening to humans in very overcrowded places like Japan, NYC, London, Netherlands, Bangladesh, etc:

    Initially the population grew rapidly, doubling every 55 days. The population reached 620 by day 315 after which the population growth dropped markedly. The last surviving birth was on day 600. This period between day 315 and day 600 saw a breakdown in social structure and in normal social behavior. Among the aberrations in behavior were the following: expulsion of young before weaning was complete, wounding of young, inability of dominant males to maintain the defense of their territory and females, aggressive behavior of females, passivity of non-dominant males with increased attacks on each other which were not defended against. After day 600 the social breakdown continued and the population declined toward extinction. During this period females ceased to reproduce. Their male counterparts withdrew completely, never engaging in courtship or fighting. They ate, drank, slept, and groomed themselves – all solitary pursuits. Sleek, healthy coats and an absence of scars characterized these males. They were dubbed “the beautiful ones”.

    The conclusions drawn from this experiment were that when all available space is taken and all social roles filled, competition and the stresses experienced by the individuals will result in a total breakdown in complex social behaviors, ultimately resulting in the demise of the population. – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun#1963-1983

    Like


  195. Uncle Gabby said:

    Natasha F said:

    “But your original point was that modern Japanese men’s herbiness was “simply” due to their high-carb, high-soy diet, relative to, I presume, the American diet. I mean, really??”

    You have the attention span of a gerbil. We just went over that.

    “So what to you is the ideal diet? Whatever it is, I’d still wager that the diet of the average Japanese person, carbs, soy, and all, is still healthier — in terms of living a long, low-disease, low-infirmity life — than just about any other nation’s.”

    There you go advocating vegetarianism again. Carbs and soy are what the medical profession and the main stream media is shoving down our throats and we are only getting fatter. But no one here besides you is talking about over all health or longevity. We are talking about testosterone levels.

    Listen fruitcake, which part of basic biology do you deny? That hormone production is dependant on diet, or that hormone levels affect personality? Find the flaw in your thinking and educate yourself. I’d post links, but it’s obvious that this conversation has wasted enough of my time already.

    *********

    Let me quote your first post, Uncle Gabby:

    “The answer is simple [to what caused the disturbing trend of Japanese men’s herbification as described in the blog entry]. A diet high in carbs and soy, and low in protein and saturated fats and cholesterol, which are important for testosterone production.

    This is nothing new. The vast majority of the Japanese population (the peasants) always lived mostly on rice, while the Samurai elite got the lion’s share of the protein.”

    Is that what you said? Yep, that’s what you said. But then you concede that today’s Japanese men eat more protein than ever before — more protein than the admittedly alpha, presumably high-testosterone Samurai (or are you going to dispute that now?). You just contradicted yourself in a big way.

    There have been some interesting theories posited here about the decline of Japanese manliness, but I have to say that your “high carbs, high soy diet leads to Japanese men being less alpha than _________ in comparison” is just about the least compelling, if not demonstrably false theory out there. — At least if you are to fill in the blanks with “Samurai” or “the general American male population.” (And you do have to fill in the blank there. The judgment that any population of men is suffering a decline in alpha-tude cannot be made in a vacuum.)

    There’s something interesting about the idea of a nation of men being fed a testosterone-killing or otherwise docility-inducing diet consisting of x, y, z. But if you are looking for an Exhibit A to support your particular theory about how a relatively high-soy, high-carb diet leads to a decline in alpha behavior, Japan ain’t it!

    Of course “hormone production is dependant on diet, or that hormone levels affect personality?” Duh!! A high-anything diet is bad and will affect your personality! I never disputed that. I’m disputing your assertion that the modern Japanese man’s relatively high-carb, high-soy diet is what is responsible for their relatively low alpha-tude.

    But if it makes you feel better to set up straw man arguments, back-pedaling, and attributing ideas and opinions I never advocated (and indeed don’t hold), then go ahead.

    P.S. And again, I’m not a vegetarian. I could not care less about advocating any vegetarian’s agenda. So who has the attention span of a gerbil? You seem particularly touchy about the subject of vegetarianism. What’s up with that??

    Like


  196. on October 6, 2009 at 6:22 pm Cannon's Canon

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.128903?page=1

    sodinis a-brewin’… don’t sleep on japan’s beta revolution

    “Back in February, a listing on Amazon.com for a Japanese hentai game called RapeLay – where you play a stalker who rapes and enslaves a mother and her two daughters – caused outrage. After some controversy here in the States, the game’s home country of Japan dealt with the controversy on its own, even if the Ethics Organization of Computer Software couldn’t seem to make up its mind.

    When the dust settled, though, it seemed that rape games had been unofficially banned, and the manufacturers thereof now had to do their best in order to adhere to the ban as lightly as they possibly could. Some responded by changing the titles (Gang Raped by the Entire Village ~Girls Covered in Milky Liquid~ became The Trap Set by the Entire Village ~Bodies Covered in Milky Liquid~) without changing the content, and some responded by assuming that the games wouldn’t offend our delicate foreign sensibilities if we couldn’t access their site. “

    Like


  197. “I wonder what the Chinese communist bureau has in store the 37 MILLION surplus Chinese men”

    Let’s hope for our sakes that some charismatic leader doesn’t re-direct all that male frustration in a way that involves putting automatic weapons in their hands, telling them they are special and on a special/holy mission, and convincing them that virgins are awaiting them in heaven if they do as he says.

    Like


  198. Natasha F. said:

    ‘”This is nothing new. The vast majority of the Japanese population (the peasants) always lived mostly on rice, while the Samurai elite got the lion’s share of the protein.”

    Is that what you said? Yep, that’s what you said. But then you concede that today’s Japanese men eat more protein than ever before — more protein than the admittedly alpha, presumably high-testosterone Samurai (or are you going to dispute that now?). You just contradicted yourself in a big way.’

    I usually don’t resort to name calling on the internets, but you’re an idiot.

    This is the last time I’m going to try to explain this to you. The Samurai were not the average japanese men of their day. Only about 5% of the population belonged to the Samurai class. As the ruling elite, they would have gotten the best of everything, especially food. That left the other 95% of the population as peasants, artisans and merchants, with the vast majority being peasants. Peasants were chronically malnourished, not good for testosterone.

    The diet of the average Japanese man has improved remarkably in the last 100 years, and is undoubtably far better than the diet of PEASANTS. Better than the diet of Samurai? I doubt it. The modern Japanese may get more protein, but the Samurai were never cursed with processed foods, and plastic shrink rap (Xenoestrogens, look it up).

    “But if it makes you feel better to set up straw man arguments, back-pedaling, and attributing ideas and opinions I never advocated (and indeed don’t hold), then go ahead.

    Haven’t done any back-pedaling or any of that other crap. The only straw man in this exchange was your assumption that I was advocating an American style McDonalds/Fatkins diet.

    I keep accusing you of being a vegetarian because you keep advocating the health benefits of a high carb diet and you insinuate that the consumption of meat is unhealthy.

    “Are you a spokesman for the national beef ranchers’ industry or something?”

    I wish. The job would probably come with a lifetime supply of steak. But alas Sam Elliot is one of the few men on earth with a manlier voice than me, so that’s not happening.

    Instead of a vegetarian, you might be a “nutritionist” or a doctor or one of the other legion of quacks who keep pushing the high carb/low fat dogma because it’s what you’re told to do.

    Like


  199. holy shit ruby, that okcupid article is hilarious and telling.

    Like


  200. Uncle Gabby said:

    “The Samurai were not the average japanese men of their day. Only about 5% of the population belonged to the Samurai class. As the ruling elite, they would have gotten the best of everything, especially food. That left the other 95% of the population as peasants, artisans and merchants, with the vast majority being peasants. Peasants were chronically malnourished, not good for testosterone.

    The diet of the average Japanese man has improved remarkably in the last 100 years, and is undoubtably far better than the diet of PEASANTS. Better than the diet of Samurai? I doubt it. The modern Japanese may get more protein, but the Samurai were never cursed with processed foods, and plastic shrink rap (Xenoestrogens, look it up).”

    ********

    By what measure do you say that the diet of today’s average Japanese man is likely inferior to the diet of Samurai? Longevity? (Modern men win). Height? (Modern men win).

    But nevermind that. Let’s say that, in terms of self-confidence, aggressiveness and/or other stereotypically alpha traits, the modern Japanese men lose to the Samurai on this score. But if so, this loss wasn’t because, in your words, the elite Samurai “got the lion’s share of the protein” whereas modern Japanese men eat “a diet high in carbs and soy, and low in protein and saturated fats and cholesterol, which are important for testosterone production.” (By the way — soy is a high protein food. Did you know that?)

    So now, in the face of the fact that today’s Japanese men eat more protein than the Samurai, you refer to a diet’s overall quality. You now speak in terms of who had the “better” diet (and not specifically of that diet’s carb, soy, or protein content), throw in the effects of processed food and plastic chemicals, and even that the Samurai had the “best of everything.” You’re not even limiting yourself to food now, much less carbs/soy/protein, as the “simple” or over-arching cause of the state of modern Japanese men. Way to back-pedal there.

    Again — let’s say that a high carb/low protein diet leads to low testosterone which leads to beta behavior. Is that your thesis? OK. You can try to find support for this proposition in any manner of ways and places. But if you cite the herbiness of today’s Japanese men as support — well then, you don’t have much talent in proffering back-up for your thesis. That’s not even weak support. That is NO support.

    I’m glad to hear you don’t advocate a McDonald’s / Fatkins diet. I don’t advocate for or against any diet. I just advocate against faulty logic and absurd notions that, insofar as Japanese men are more herby than Samurai, or presumably the average American man with their average American diet (whatever that is), it is some sub-optimal percentages of carbs and proteins in their diet that are responsible for the decline and/or disparity — as opposed to Japan’s economy, rigid social structure, modernization and its psychological effects, or just about everything else others here have posited.

    [editor: there are other environmental factors besides diets rich in estrogen-boosting soy that may be affecting men’s T levels. water polluted with the runoff of flushed birth control pills is one such claim i’ve read about.]

    Like


  201. Natasha,

    You’re still hung up on the same crap. This is the last time I’m going over this. The average japanese was not a Samurai. The Samurai were not the average japanese. I don’t “now speak in terms of who had the better diet” it has been contention from the beginning of the discussion that the Samurai always got the best food, which allowed them to rule over the chronically malnurished peasants.

    You are the one who is hung up on Samurai vs. Modern Japanese. I don’t give a fuck, and haven’t for the course of this conversation. It is irrelevant. You can even compare the testosterone levels of Samurai vs. their contemporaries in europe and africa and I’m sure any culture who ate more red meat would have higher test levels than the Japanese and their Samurai. Also irrelevant.

    You falsely claim that I have been inconsistent, but that is a transparent attempt by you to win points in the debate. For some reason, I keep having to elaborate the same basic facts to explain this to you, go ever the most elementary shit to dispell your assumptions. I don’t know why I’m even doing this any more. Maybe I feel sorry for you because you are borderline retarded.

    You keep talking about longevity and height. The average japanese have gone from chronic malnourishment (not the samurai, idiot, but the other 95% of the population), to an adequate caloric intake. Of course they got taller. Of course they live longer. No fucking shit. If you go from starvation to non starvation you will be healthier. Testosterone levels go up from practically non-existent to below adequate. That is an improvement.

    The reason large numbers of Japanese men retreat from the world is they have low testosterone. They have low testosterone because their diet consists mostly of rice, vegetables, seafood (protein, duh, but little cholestorol or saturated fats, which are necessary for testosterone production) and soy. Soy has protein. It also has estrogen. Estrogen bad.

    You keep wanting to compare the Japanese to the Americans. “But the Japanese are eating more like Americans! More McDonalds!” McDonalds is about the worst shit that America exports. If they’re eating more of that I feel sorry for them.

    There are Xenoestrogens in plastic, there may be estrogen in water, as roissy says. The economy sucks and they can’t get a job. Those are problems. I never said they weren’t, I just don’t agree that they are the central problem. Any way, you can correct those, even eliminate soy from the diet, and you are still faced with the fact that the Japanese diet is a Low-Testosterone diet.

    If you’re not convinced, it’s because you’re ignorant. That’s your problem, not mine. I wash my hands.

    Like


  202. I said I wouldn’t come back, but the source of the confusion acurred to me while I was taking my morning shit.

    Roissy said:
    “The herbification of the Western world is not just an American phenomenon; Japanese men — heirs of Samurai and Kamikazes — are herbifying straight into an anime-tastic fantasyland of celibate extinction.”

    Incorrect. Samurai were only ever a tiny percentage of the population. Japanese men are the heirs of chronically malnourished, and often physically abused peasants. They haven’t fallen from grace because they were always groveling face down in the mud to begin with.

    Like


  203. Uncle Gabby said (in further revision of his original answer):

    “The reason large numbers of Japanese men retreat from the world is they have low testosterone. They have low testosterone because their diet consists mostly of rice, vegetables, seafood (protein, duh, but little cholestorol or saturated fats, which are necessary for testosterone production) and soy. Soy has protein. It also has estrogen. Estrogen bad.”

    ________________

    Getting snippy arn’cha?

    The original article was about the current generation of Japanese men, who retreat from the world in a way their fathers’ and grandfathers’ generation presumably did not. But those older generations ate even more rice and less animal protein than the modern men do.

    So what does that say about your argument regarding the centrality of the Japanese diet on herby behavior? Let me guess — you would respond by going off about a whole host of other factors that, according to you, would play a role that overwhelms whatever testosterone-lowering effect the Japanese diet of that generation might have, such as different living conditions, no video games, etc. etc. etc. But when it comes time for someone else to proffer a theory that the uniquely herby character of today’s young Japanese men might be mostly due to a host of other factors playing a role that overwhelms whatever testosterone-lowering effect the modern Japanese diet might have (recession, modernization, social structure, etc.) — you just throw a tantrum and insist that no, this time (your time), it’s the diet above all else.

    Does the Japanese government know about this? Would raising the collective testosterone level of their men through making them modify their diet solve the current problem of the men retreating from the world, the consequent low marriage and birth rates, etc.? What a simple and brilliant plan! Ingenious!

    I wonder, though, why hasn’t the high-carb, high-soy diet made the modern Japanese woman more docile as well? Women naturally have a testosterone level, too. Today’s women seem to be the most aggressive generation of women in Japan’s history. Oh nevermind — you’ll just come up with some non-diet factors to explain why that example doesn’t count, and then insist once again that, when it comes to modern Japanese men’s behavior, all non-diet factors are insignificant.

    So what does that say about your way of thinking and defending an argument? I see a lot of emotional (as opposed to reasoned) thinking, and defensiveness. And not much else.

    Like


  204. But Japan still makes the only video games worth playing…

    The Grand Theft Auto people are a NYC company I believe.

    Like


  205. on October 8, 2009 at 3:48 am You Know I'm Right

    Testosterone levels are also negatively affected by population overcrowding, a factor not considered by most. Biology, genetics, and nutrition accounts for most behavior, but not all – social factors also play a huge role. The results of the experiment noted above pretty much mimic the behavior of modern males and females in overcrowded cities and suburbs:

    “Among the aberrations in behavior were the following: expulsion of young before weaning was complete, wounding of young, inability of dominant males to maintain the defense of their territory and females, aggressive behavior of females, passivity of non-dominant males with increased attacks on each other which were not defended against. After day 600 the social breakdown continued and the population declined toward extinction. During this period females ceased to reproduce. Their male counterparts withdrew completely, never engaging in courtship or fighting. They ate, drank, slept, and groomed themselves – all solitary pursuits. – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun#1963-1983

    Like


  206. @ You Know I’m Right:

    That link kinda blew my mind. Fascinating, and scary … thanks!

    Let me include a few other sentences after what you excerpted from that wikipedia article:

    “After day 600 the social breakdown continued… [The males] withdrew completely, never engaging in courtship or fighting. They ate, drank, slept, and groomed themselves – all solitary pursuits. ***Sleek, healthy coats and an absence of scars characterized these males. They were dubbed “the beautiful ones”.****

    The conclusions drawn from this experiment were that ***when all available space is taken and all social roles filled,*** competition and the stresses experienced by the individuals will result in a total breakdown in complex social behaviors, ultimately resulting in the demise of the population. Dr. Calhoun saw the fate of the population of mice as a metaphor for the potential fate of man.” [emphases mine]

    A valid conclusion to be drawn from this, I submit: Men need jobs. Jobs that are commensurate with their abilities, endow them with a place in society, make them feel that society benefits in more than a superfluous way from their efforts. Jobs, not busywork. Other posters here alluded to this, I think, with their thoughts on the effects of modernization and how men get “dandified and soft” when it appears all material needs are met, and traditional masculinity then becomes considered a pathology. It reminds me of the metrosexual phenomenon.

    It makes me more convinced than ever that human beings (men and women) need to struggle maybe just a **little** bit for their survival in order to be truly happy. I’m not saying that we should all revert to caveman days where we struggle to put mastadon on the dinner table and see half our kids make it past past infancy before we die at 30, but … maybe Calhoun has foreseen the fate of “civilized” man …

    Like


  207. on October 9, 2009 at 2:39 am You Know I'm Right

    Hey Natasha:

    You make a lot of good points.

    Mass-industrialism and easy urban/suburban living has indeed made most modern humans in the most ‘advanced’ countries very soft. This is made worse by the fact that all humans alive today descend from peoples who were the most successful in the past in terms of passing their genes on to us (either the strongest, or the slickest, or the scummiest, or a combination of those qualities), those who survived all the terrible hardships – and so we modern humans feel a compulsion to continue being strong and active like our ancient ancestors who were that way, but there is no need to do that for most people because, as I stated, in modern societies everything is already relatively figured out and we live very easily compared to the past.

    Yes, men do indeed need productive jobs/work to feel like they are contributing, and we are all definitely meant to struggle more than just a little in order to survive, but in mass-industrial societies nearly all of the hardest or most routine work is now very easily done with machinery. In many respects we are victims of our own socioeconomic success, and the machines took our jobs.

    Now a major problem which confronts us is the massive propagation of inferior humans who now swarm all over the Earth and to which my previous comments alluded to…in the past, these weaker elements would’ve been culled from the population or kept in check, but nowadays they thrive through the relative easiness of modern living and we continue to fall deeper in to this nightmarish “behavioral sink” to use Calhoun’s terminology. Thus, while in the past human evolution tended to be mostly eugenic wherein only the strongest survived, nowadays it has unfortunately become very dysgenic. This does not bode very well for the future.

    There is a lot more info out there about Calhoun’s experiments, but a good read from earlier this year that I found recently is @ http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/economicHistory/pdf/FACTSPDF/2308Ramadams.pdf

    Like


  208. on October 9, 2009 at 2:53 am You Know I'm Right

    Some of the following scenes are reminiscent of some modern overcrowded urban/suburban areas in many densely populated nations. From the above-linked PDF:

    “Dominant males became aggressive, some moving in groups, attacking females and the young. Mating behaviors were disrupted. Some became exclusively homosexual. Others became pansexual and hypersexual, attempting to mount any rat they encountered. Mothers neglected their infants, first failing to construct proper nests, and then carelessly abandoning and even attacking their pups. In certain sections of the pens, infant mortality rose as high as 96%, the dead cannibalized by adults. Subordinate animals withdrew psychologically, surviving in a physical sense but at an immense psychological cost. They were the majority in the late phases of growth, existing as a vacant, huddled mass in the centre of the pens. Unable to breed, the population plummeted and did not recover. The crowded rodents had lost the ability to co-exist harmoniously, even after the population numbers once again fell to low levels. At a certain density, they had ceased to act like rats and mice, and the change was permanent.” (page 2) – http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/economicHistory/pdf/FACTSPDF/2308Ramadams.pdf

    Like


  209. […] Zustimmung: “A society that does not treat a group of people humanely cannot expect those people to […]

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  210. It’s the fluoride in the water. Fluoride is a neurotoxin known to make people become docile and effeminate men, meaning it changes brain chemical which make men less aggressive.

    Do you know that Hitler put Fluoride in the detention camp’s water supply, to make prisoners docile and less aggressive? That way the guard has easier time keeping them in line and less likely to take risks from making an escape.

    Like


  211. on January 5, 2010 at 11:50 am Dr. Grzlickson

    Fluoride prevents tooth decay, this docile crap is a bunch of Yak crap.

    Like


  212. Do you know that Hitler put Fluoride in the detention camp’s water supply

    Hitler lives below my bed and that bastard stole all my teeth that I lost when I was a child.

    Also, he told me, speaking from below my bed, that he only lost the war because Russia remains frozen for half of the year, so he couldn´t put fluoride in its rivers

    All his victories, Poland, France, Holland, so on, were won while those places were not frozen so that he could emasculate their soldiers through fluoride. And he lost in africa not because it was frozen, but because it lacked water

    Like


  213. CR,

    I hate to break it to you, but Chinese men are only a few years behind.

    I’m amazed they even think about sex.

    I keep telling my fellow Americans to get thee to Asia, …

    But
    No
    One
    Listens
    To
    Me.

    Like


  214. Go

    To

    Asia.

    Like


  215. dont copy
    my style
    ok

    Like