Number One Asset

I once had to get rid of a girl for a shallow reason.  It’s a shame, too.  I didn’t want to… she was cute, considerably younger, sweet… but some things are non-negotiable deal killers.  I was finger banging her during foreplay and, because I like the full experience, I brought my fingers up to my nose for a big sniff.

DAMN!  PEW!

Her vaginal odor instantly ruined the mood.  I don’t know what produced it — natural musky scent, yeast infection, old chicken wings — but a foul genital smell is right up there with brandishing an ice pick for making me walk away from sex and finish up later to pics of Lois from Family Guy.

I butched up and endured for as long as I could, but every time we changed positions and her bush passed through my smell zone I got blasted in the face with toxic fumes.  Doing her doggy style I was forced to press her ass cheeks together to keep the odor trapped.  Afterwards, I was afraid to smell anything on me.  I scrubbed my hands like a surgeon prepping for an operation and hours later the stank was still on my fingers.

I spent the next day smelling my own farts to get rid of the memory.  Then I shaved my pubes because I figured there was no way her sticky pungent juices would ever leave my groin.  It was like radical lice therapy.

I like going down on very attractive girls.  But even a Russian 10 would stop me cold in my tracks if her pussy smelled that strongly.  If I can’t go down on her without suppressing a gag and crying like I was peeling onions with a clothespin on my nose she will never be a long term prospect.  I may as well cut my losses.

I had a nightmare that night about being tortured by Central Asian Islamists who forced my face repeatedly into this girl’s snatch while yelling PUSSY IS GREAT! LICK IT DRY! over and over.  They called it beaverboarding.

Here’s Chateau Tip #14, ladies:  Your vagina is your number one asset.  Treat it as such.

Maybe girls can’t smell their own pussies the way we can’t smell our own bad breath.  In that case, it’s the duty of every man to inform his stinky girl she has issues down there.  If she can’t be bothered to fix a problem with her number one asset then that tells me she does not care for my desires as a man.  If she refuses because of a hippie belief in going au naturel then dump her.  Feminist mother earth hippie chicks with unkempt overgrown bushes will never treat you like the king you are.  Selfishness is a major character flaw in women.





Comments


  1. Wow, that was harsh, but it goes both ways. An overgrown jungle emitting a noxious odor is a major turn-off for both guys and girls. I definitely won’t go down on a guy if he doesn’t practice good hygiene.

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  2. I don’t think it was a matter of cleanliness or anything. Some women just smell stronger down there than others.

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  3. I am compelled, of course, to champion the cause of unshaved natural women. Leave aside the pedophilic appeal of the hairless look. The fact remains that the presence of hair, even in its glorious natural untrimmed state, does *not* cause foul odor. Odors come from inside, from naturally hairless nooks and crannies.

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  4. Wait, can we conclude from this that feminists have stinkier snatches?

    *pulls pin from imaginary grenade and tosses it into group of susceptible bloggers*

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  5. I completely agree that people should take pride in clean genitals- it is a sign of respect for the other person and the act itself. Similarly, some men have particularly nasty tasting cum. If a woman has ever grimaced after you came in her mouth, you should seriously consider rectifying the situation with more fruit in your diet. And lay off the asparagus. She will be much more willing to go down again. Trust me.

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  6. Lexi: pineapple juice

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  7. That graffito looks like “MB”.

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  8. At least you go there at all.

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  9. You know what sucks, it’s always the hot ones you’d least expect it from. I’m surprised sometimes when you go home with a mudturtle and you’re expecting the worse but then when the pants come off it’s all butterball smooth and smells like butterscotch. But you go home with a skinny dime, pant’s come off, and there’s a the biggest 70’s bush you’ve ever seen + the smell of decaying chipmunks!?!

    It’s like look girl, you’re kinda hot, your vagina is going to be seen more often than the average chick, can you shape it up or at least shave a VK in it for a brotha?

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  10. I am compelled, of course, to champion the cause of unshaved natural women. Leave aside the pedophilic appeal of the hairless look.

    What about pits and legs? If you prefer these to be shaved, by your own logic, you’re a pedophile. A man preferring a shaved woman is no more pedophilic than a woman who prefers a man with a clean-shaven face.

    The fact remains that the presence of hair, even in its glorious natural untrimmed state, does *not* cause foul odor. Odors come from inside, from naturally hairless nooks and crannies.

    It may not cause cause odor, but it sure as hell traps it. Haven’t you ever had your — or your girl’s — hair smell like smoke after going to a bar? Or smell like shampoo even hours after washing it? Pubic hair does the same thing.

    It’s great that you prefer a natural look, but that doesn’t mean anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong.

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  11. *pulls pin from imaginary grenade and tosses it into group of susceptible bloggers*

    Next time don’t toss the pin.

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  12. A man preferring a shaved woman is no more pedophilic than a woman who prefers a man with a clean-shaven face.

    Indeed. I can’t stand men with facial hair more than a stubble.

    Neoteny is a well-known trait in the human species.

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  13. I was wondering, does the “gender is a social construct” position still have any life in feminist cirlces, or is it completely dead now?

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  14. the idea that my vagina is my number 1 asset makes me sad. i had this idea that my #1 asset was my right boob, and i’m afraid i can’t part with it. the idea, that is, not the boob

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  15. I was wondering, does the “gender is a social construct” position still have any life in feminist cirlces, or is it completely dead now?

    Not to open a whole new can of worms, but my evolutionary psychology prof actually liked this phrase, because his specialty area of research was homosexuals, transsexuals and those who are not genetically XY/XX (for example XXY). He’s a rather controversial professor, known for antics like bringing cross-dressers and people who have had sex changes into his lectures and paying undergraduate women money to view porn for his research.

    Seriously cool guy, though. Out of my entire undergrad experience, I adored his classes the most.

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  16. Gender is still viewed as a social construct (by many, not all feminists), biological sex is not.

    Most feminists I know agree that there are some general male/female sex differences, but most have to do with biology. Also, there is a focus on taking people as individuals, okay, so men have more testosterone, testosterone is linked with aggression, but that does not mean that an individual woman is less aggressive than an individual man, or that her aggression should be given any more (or less) respect than his.

    I will give you that due to hormones, it is easier for most women to cry than most men. (Although some men in their 40’s-50’s experience hormonal changes that make them suddenly very lachrymose, to their chagrin.)

    To give an example of gender vs. sex: wearing hair long–gender expression, usually feminine, having hair that can grow long, sex expression.

    But I was actually the only *person* who did not cry during basic training in my flight of 30-odd, all but four of whom were men. That doesn’t make me a better person, it makes me one who doesn’t cry much.

    Hope,

    Your prof. sounds awesome.

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  17. She may have had an STD:

    Cervicitis Overview
    Cervicitis, a common infection of the lower genital tract, is the inflammation of the cervix (this is the neck and outlet of a woman’s uterus).

    Inflammation may be caused by infection from certain sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) or by injury to the cervix from a foreign object inserted in the vagina, from birth control devices such as the cervical cap or a diaphragm, or by cancer.

    Many cases of cervicitis go untreated because women who have the infection do not know they do. Often there are no obvious symptoms.

    Cervicitis often develops in young women, younger than age 25 years who are not married but sexually active. In fact, more than half of all women may develop cervicitis at some point in their adult lives.

    Cervicitis Causes
    A vaginal infection or a sexually transmitted disease (such as gonorrhea, chlamydia, and trichomoniasis) can cause cervicitis. HIV, infection with the herpes virus (genital herpes), and human papillomavirus (HPV, genital warts) are additional STDs (also now called STIs) that put you at risk for developing cervicitis.

    You are at increased risk if you have sexual relations at an early age or engage in high-risk sexual behavior with many partners or have a history of sexually transmitted diseases.
    Injury or irritation (a reaction to the chemicals in douches and contraceptives or a forgotten tampon) also can cause the disease. The objects may simply cause irritation and make the cervix more susceptible to infection.

    Cervicitis Symptoms
    In the mildest form of cervicitis, you may not notice any symptoms at all.

    A more severe case of cervicitis can cause a profuse, almost puslike, discharge with an unpleasant odor, accompanied by intense vaginal itchiness or abdominal pain.

    etc, etc. etc.

    http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/cervicitis

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  18. Cuchulainn,

    If it was a yeast infection, shouldn’t the girl at least give the guy a heads up? I mean it’s almost like women being on their period, yes it’s natural, but I think us guys should know BEFORE we wake up to bloody sheets and think we were in the prom scene of Carrie.

    Also I used to think that women having complications period, infection or other with their vagisnipps shouldn’t be allowed in singles bars or clubs but that’s just rude of me. Now I think that they should be forced to wear an pink V badge with a line through it on their chest or as an arm band.

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  19. The MS tag looks legit to me. The next time you make it down to the far away, remote, and exotic land of El Salvador Del Norte, a.k.a. South Arlington, I can show you a whole slew of MS tags right here in my own neighborhood. Keep an eye out for skinny teenage Hispanic boys in black and blue tracksuits. That would be them.

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  20. VK,

    How about putting a sign on men who haven’t been tested for, or who actually have, asymptomatic STDs that can cause infertility in women?

    Your proposal is so much less sexy than earlier “hanky codes.”

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  21. on November 29, 2007 at 9:06 pm Silent Observer

    Roissy — why are you feeding your own trolls? Things have gotten a lot less fun around here since you started engaging with feminists.

    I can assure you that if this were real life, these are not people we’d be talking to. So why address them on here.

    Come back David Alexander! We didn’t know when we had it good.

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  22. Yes. We just don’t get your sense of humor. THAT”s why your arguments appear so garbled and your comments are little more than, again, “That’s what SHE said…” attempts to pander to your nimrod base.

    And it’s amazing how fast a woman’s asset depreciates in your estimation when she makes it clear that asset never was, or will be, available to you.

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  23. And Silent Observer is right. Logical argument is not your strong suit. You’re not keeping up your end, and the board is suffering. Please go back to your core skill set, entertaining us with stories of all those women who want you soooo much…

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  24. M. Bradwell aka Hedonistic Pleasureseeker,

    If you couldn’t tell that I was just joking, you’re a fucking idiot. Unlike everyone else on this fucking blog that takes everything TOO SERIOUSLY, I don’t really care to get into fucking gay arguments that come down to boy’s rule girls drool or vise versa. Jesus fucking Christ, does being a feminist mean you’re not allowed to joke around?

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  25. VK,

    Do you know what a hanky code is?

    I try. I really try.

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  26. Dizzy- you always sound so angry. Why do you keep coming back to this blog when it is clearly harming your mental health? Stress is bad – take a jog or something and release your tension in other ways.

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  27. I don’t get where the angry “feminists can’t take a joke comments” are coming from now. I’ve been very amused, since Roissy’s first “Hey Dizzy you suck” post. And the only people I see on here making angry generalizations about an entire sex, are, again, the men.

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  28. roissy,

    You’ve got to give me more to work with if you want a real response.

    Oh, and why am I a hedonist all the sudden?

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  29. I asked this question in the comments on the last post, but thought i’d post again here to see if anyone else will help me out:

    “Could someone define “feminism” for me?

    To me it means ensuring that women have the same respect and equality that men have. I’d equate it with simple equality for all humans – male, female, black white etc.

    It obviously means something much worse to some people on this board.”

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  30. I agree with your def.

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  31. Roissy — why are you feeding your own trolls?

    crisis and observation.
    i enjoy sticking the cornered pigs and listening to their squeals as they lash out in pain.

    dizzy lubed up at the thought of me hitting her walls and working the middle:
    And it’s amazing how fast a woman’s asset depreciates in your estimation when she makes it clear that asset never was, or will be, available to you.

    so i mock you and you take that to mean i want you?
    interesting logic.
    here’s a tip: i don’t expect you to care about my judgement of your repulsive afeminine personality and your mistaken beliefs about the sexual marketplace. after all, i’m just one guy on the internet. unfortunately for you my opinions are calibrated quite closely to the prevailing standards of what kind of personality most men find attractive in women.
    and that is where you have to worry because you just don’t make the cut.

    Logical argument is not your strong suit.

    you’re beginning to hurt. good. let your hate consume you…

    Please go back to your core skill set, entertaining us with stories of all those women who want you soooo much…

    i understand you are in your mid-30s and still single.
    that explains a lot.

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  32. Could someone define “feminism” for me?

    This is like asking a group of people to define “conservatism” or “liberalism.” Ask ten different people and you will likely get ten different answers.

    Oh, and why am I a hedonist all the sudden?

    I think they are mistaking you for another commenter that used to post more frequently.

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  33. My fellow judges, I was barely in my teens when I put on this badge. When it is time for me to take it off, please let me do so, knowing that it still stands for freedom. Not oppression.

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  34. “This is like asking a group of people to define “conservatism” or “liberalism.” Ask ten different people and you will likely get ten different answers.”

    That’s fine with me.

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  35. Oh, come on, Roissy, you know Dizzy wasn’t talking about you wanting her. She was talking about you denigrating women as uptight bitches just because some of us don’t want to play your game.

    But then you describe (metaphorically) fucking her? Please tell me that your real sex life, if committed to paper (or the internets) wouldn’t be that clinical and unsexy. Or don’t. But I will hold out hope that it doesn’t.

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  36. I don’t care what everyone else thinks. In my view, natural is FAR preferable to shaved.

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  37. jk:
    Could someone define “feminism” for me?

    modern feminism has no definition that matters. it’s merely a convenient ideology for has-beens, dykes, wannabes, dregs, warpigs, headcases, ballcutting bitches, burned losers in love, aging harpies, and left-behinds to avoid facing up to the cruel realities of human nature and to acquire power at the expense of those they have convinced themselves are depriving them from the happiness they imagine they are owed.
    i mean, take a look at the murderers’ row of fuglies who founded and perpetuate the feminist movement.

    the best things to come out of feminism were the pill, loose women, and easy sex.

    hedonistic:
    Oh, come on, Roissy, you know Dizzy wasn’t talking about you wanting her.

    the implication was clear.
    the “you want me!” debate tactic is straight from the cunty playbook.

    She was talking about you denigrating women as uptight bitches just because some of us don’t want to play your game.

    you and dizzy are not all women.
    hth.
    and your premises are false. i don’t denigrate women for not “playing my game” (if you mean what i think you mean); i denigrate those women who spread lies about the nature of the game.

    But then you describe (metaphorically) fucking her?

    it’s a pop culture web 2.0 reference.
    please do keep up.

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  38. In my view, natural is FAR preferable to shaved.

    Mind if I ask if you had a particularly good past lover that was all natural? And at what age?

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  39. Roissy-
    Here’s a female’s response along the same lines of what you wrote here, entitled:
    “Your Vagina is your Center, Always Remember That”

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  40. paully – great find.

    “The first thing you must do is wash that coochie good. Don’t be all cute and throw some soap and water down there and think it’s clean. No, you have to open them lips up.”

    true that. hey dizzy, here’s woman who agrees with me that your pussy is your purpose!

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  41. How does “some of us” = “all women”?

    Really? You don’t denigrate us? Like when you said:

    “If you want to know why American women have such unrealistic expectations, ridiculously out-of-sync standards, neurotically overblown egos, schizophrenic flakiness, and chronic selfishness.”

    And I’m the one that generalizes about “all women”?

    Like when I said that some women are rude when approached in bars b/c we want to be left alone, and aren’t if we are nice, and then later may get groped (yay!), and you stated:

    “what we are talking about is a woman’s hysterical bitchiness at being approached IN A BAR where approaches are a regular occurence and being unwilling for reasons that are all too obvious to anyone with a basic understanding of female psychology to avail herself of the one remedy that is guaranteed to spare her the emotional turmoil of horny men — staying the fuck home.”

    I’m not that other poster, btw, check my IP address. I posted once or twice here under Ismone, but other than that, it has been M Bradwell all the way.

    But the bad sex writing? Is that some pop culture reference?

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  42. I have to say, Tiona Tee Smalls is awesome. Now there’s some *loving* realism about life. Roissy seems to be getting all bitter and angry and vicious lately.

    Thanks for the link, Paully.

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  43. “modern feminism has no definition that matters. it’s merely a convenient ideology for has-beens, dykes, wannabes, dregs, warpigs, headcases, ballc……

    the best things to come out of feminism were the pill, loose women, and easy sex.”

    That really doesn’t help.

    As I said before I always thought feminism was simply trying to ensure equality between the sexes.

    Is it the female equality that you don’t like? Women being lawyers and doctors?

    I’m not baiting you or anyone else, I’d really like to know why you seem to dislike the notion of feminism.

    (Actually feminism seems to be an outdated word, should we not just use the phrase equality?)

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  44. Peter: I don’t care what everyone else thinks. In my view, natural is FAR preferable to shaved.

    That’s cool. Just don’t call people pedophiles if they disagree.

    And Roissy, you said:

    so i mock you and you take that to mean i want you?

    Isn’t that the whole idea behind negging? Mocking to raise your status in relation to hers?

    I don’t know what to think of this blog. On the one hand, you raise some interesting points. On the other, there’s a certain contempt for women present that’s difficult to ignore.

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  45. How does “some of us” = “all women”?

    you wrote: “She was talking about you denigrating women…”.
    i don’t see “some” in there.

    And I’m the one that generalizes about “all women”?

    generalizations are useful. i don’t claim to not generalize about men and women based on what i observe and what science is discovering that verifies my observations. what i lavishly wrote in that quote was a description of a trend i see in american women that i don’t see in foreign women. as such, it was descriptive rather than unjustly denigrative. case in point: i have dated, am dating, and will continue to date american women.

    obviously generalizations have exceptions. only a person like yourself, a self-proclaimed old school battle-hardened feminist, would identify with her entire gender and take offense even if my observations don’t personally apply to you.
    but if they do apply to you, then i can understand why you bristle when you read it.

    furthermore, i take some artistic license on my blog. it helps get the point across in a maximally entertaining way.

    Like when I said that some women are rude when approached in bars b/c we want to be left alone, and aren’t if we are nice, and then later may get groped (yay!), and you stated

    you seem to keep deliberately talking around my point. i don’t want to start an inquisition to get rude women tossed out of bars, i want to impress on them that their decisions have consequences, and one such consequence is that they will be pestered more in bars at night by men looking for sex. therefore, if it bothers them THAT MUCH, they should stay home to avoid the headache.
    very simple solution.
    most normal women understand this social dynamic, yet you seem to get your panties in a bunch at the mere suggestion that sometimes the world isn’t going to be this pretty place that will placate your every unspoken need.
    nowhere in what i wrote did i say or imply that men have a right to grope women who act bitchy to them in bars.

    I posted once or twice here under Ismone, but other than that, it has been M Bradwell all the way.

    you and hedonistic share the exact same writing style and fevered opinions. the resemblance is uncanny, which is why i wondered if you cliched feminists are poured from the same mold.

    Is that some pop culture reference?

    search youtube for alexyss tylor.

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  46. Roissy seems to be getting all bitter and angry and vicious lately.

    you’re mistaking performance art cruelty for bitterness.

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  47. jk:
    As I said before I always thought feminism was simply trying to ensure equality between the sexes.

    it was.
    not anymore.
    and there really is no such thing as “equality between the sexes” except in the strictest legal sense. the goal feminism pursues is a chimera. men and women are no more equal, at least in the sense of the word that feminists suppose it means, than a dog and a cat.

    Is it the female equality that you don’t like?

    actually female “equality” has been a boon for my sex life.
    yay sexual revolution!

    Women being lawyers and doctors?

    describing a social phenomenon is not the same as advocating its reversal.
    though it would do some women a world of good in the dating market if they refrained from following career paths that will limit their choices in men.
    life is a series of trade-offs that many are not willing to accept.

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  48. Isn’t that the whole idea behind negging? Mocking to raise your status in relation to hers?

    good lord, no. negging has nothing to do with mocking. playful teasing is another phrase for negging. the idea is for the guy to raise his status through confident flirting, not lower it with sarcastic put-downs.

    On the other, there’s a certain contempt for women present that’s difficult to ignore.

    substitute “women” with “some women like dizzy and bradwell” and you may have a point.

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  49. raw-see,

    Ah, the bait-and-switch. Why bother continuing to talk about my original quote when you can come up with another quote–that still doesn’t support your argument.

    When I say “women” that means more than one. It is one of those plural thingies.

    Battle-hardened? To that, I say, huah, but I am not battle-hardened in the way you think.

    Nah, I was one of the women who turn down those who aspire to be like you (and by you I mean this performance-art Casanova you are online) and fail. So I was speaking for me. But I stick up for my girls, even the many who are nothing like me.

    You keep telling me you’re not a groper. Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.

    Just like getting hit on is a “consequence” (jeez, you don’t think highly of yourselves) of going out, getting turned down is a consequence of propositioning (or pre-propositioning, as it may be) women. If y’all know why we do it, you can adjust your strategies to match. Or stop wasting your time with women who won’t get won over. I don’t get all butt hurt if a gorgeous man doesn’t want to talk to me—what makes you so special?

    I meant your description of sex. I hope to God you don’t experience sex the way you wrote about it when you were ad-homming dizzy. Because I’m nice like that. ;P

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  50. Roissy there’s a record. So we can see what you said, this time. And what you said before. When the two don’t match up, I can’t be the only one who’s noticed.

    PS – You sound, if possible, even a little more desperate, scattered and spittle-sputtering about nothing that anyone has actually said in these last posts. Is something getting to you?

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  51. “and there really is no such thing as “equality between the sexes” except in the strictest legal sense”

    Of course there is. Men and women are different, but they can still be equal.

    If you would rather a woman without a high powered career, that’s fine. You are allowed to have preferences.
    Equality simply ensures that a woman (like anyone else) can choose that career if she wishes.

    I am (obviously) no expert on feminism, so I’m trying to get some insight into why it is so reviled on this board.

    I don’t see what people here are complaining about when they talk of these crazy mad feminists. They must go around torturing puppies babies for all the abuse they get here!

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  52. in that new pic you posted of yourself on your blog both your boobs look fantastic. don’t ignore the left one… it gets lonely.

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  53. i dunno, being a tad howard hughes no? if it was THAT BAD, it was probably, like you said, a yeast infection, candida or whatever, curable in the short term. is that really a good reason to turn down a russian ten? happens to most girls at least once, it’s a moist area.

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  54. They seem to hope they’re being all gross and outrageous. But the “Number 1 Asset” comment is the only thing that offends me, as well.

    The feminists I know could give a shit who these guys want to sleep with. “Men should want THIS” is just not on the agenda.

    Actually, if anyone is upset about the role personal preference plays in choosing a sexual partner, it would be him and all the other guys complaining about rejection from “castrating bitches” who are “afraid of the male sex drive” and inexplicably resistant to “seduction.”

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  55. dizzy, you know what your problem is? you don’t get enough fun out of life.

    ps: your pussy is your #1 asset in the sexual market. yours is massively depreciated thanks to the personality it’s attached to.

    m bradwell (AKA hedonistic pleasureseeker) – do you humorless feminists roll off the same factory line? i swear it’s like you’re all cut from an identical man-hating mold. i can predict what you’ll write before you write it.

    cuchulainn – the 2nd and 3rd times i went back to her well, the odor was still there. this was weeks apart. i wanted it to work, but this was too much. luckily, there are enough fresh-smelling pussies in the universe to satisfy me.

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  56. on November 30, 2007 at 5:04 am InterestedParty

    You keep telling me you’re not a groper. Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.

    WHAT?!

    Anyway, here’s a question – what’s wrong with a raw sexual relationship between a man and woman? None of this psychological warfare bullshit. Just sex and that’s it. I think a lot of problems would be solved, but society has conditioned us to think this is wrong.

    Like


  57. “here’s a tip: i don’t expect you to care about my judgement of your repulsive afeminine personality and your mistaken beliefs about the sexual marketplace. after all, i’m just one guy on the internet. unfortunately for you my opinions are calibrated quite closely to the prevailing standards of what kind of personality most men find attractive in women.
    and that is where you have to worry because you just don’t make the cut.”

    Dude. This is the internet. I am a complete hypothetical. The only thing you know about me is that I laughed at you and your attempts to argue when you called me names and yelled at me on your big ol’ blog and tried to pretend you know jack about those scary feminists (or read a non-“seduction”-related book in the last five years). And yeah, maybe you’re right and no one wants me. Or maybe the other guys (at least the ones who aren’t Gannon) just think you’re funny too.

    It’s interesting, also, that you’ve settled on a theme of, “I don’t want to sleep with you” to put me in my place. (Again, INTERNET here, for all you know I’m a 12 year old boy!)Because your whole blog is about overcoming the “bitch shield” of a woman who has made that same decision about you.

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  58. tizzy weirded out on everyone again:
    Yes. Feminists are so awful.

    some are ok, even if their beliefs are misguided.
    you, on the other hand…

    That’s why he dates women who can’t annoy him with their ability to speak the same language he does.

    my girlfriend is standing over me right now laughing as i type this. she says her english is pretty good for an american.

    Then they can’t understand when he tells them they’re worthless because he doesn’t want to sleep with them.

    you just love putting words in my mouth, don’t you? was this debating tactic covered in your gender theory class on the oppressive patriarchal system of logical argumentation?
    here’s a hint, sparky: if i don’t want to sleep with a woman, i simply won’t pursue her. i don’t tell her she’s worthless.
    but you keep right on creating an image in your head of the roissy you want me to be if it helps you sleep at night.

    (Because they’re too bitchy to want to sleep with him, of course).

    it’s kind of funny when you post high.

    How will they ever survive without some sort of rating system to determine their worth?

    they’re doing it now, with or without my special lessons.
    there is no escape from the pitiless judgement of the human marketplace.
    the frontline is everywhere.

    Like


  59. dizzy goes round and back again:
    It’s interesting, also, that you’ve settled on a theme of, “I don’t want to sleep with you” to put me in my place.

    that depends on your answering a few of my leetle questions:

    how old are you?
    how tall are you?
    how much do you weigh?
    how would you rate your facial attractiveness?
    do you do anal?

    if you fit my criteria, i’d hypothetically do you. sticking around to enjoy your other… qualities… is a different matter entirely.

    as for the point at hand which you seem to have again missed so stubbornly, let me spell it out for you:
    men share a great deal in what they find attractive in women, including a feminine personality. you have made your rather unappetizingly bitchy attitude obvious on this board for all to see. while yer narrator’s ‘umble opinion doesn’t matter to you here, in the big picture you have got problems, because my opinion on what constitutes a fun, sexy girl is in line with the opinions of the majority of men, and it is those men you will be dealing with in the dating market.
    here’s a suggestion to start: try to curtail the feminist bloviating on the first couple of dates.

    Because your whole blog is about overcoming the “bitch shield” of a woman who has made that same decision about you.

    false premise squared.
    how’s that strawroissy workin out for ya?

    1. the “whole blog” is much more than about overcoming bitch shields.
    2. “bitch shield” is a term of art. in fact, a woman throwing up a bitch shield is a sign that she is giving the guy a chance to impress her. it should be welcomed by him.
    3. women who choose not to sleep with me do not express this through bitch shields. they do in with indifference. bitch shields happen before the decision is made, not after.

    you have much learning to do, tizzy. i am the light and the way. those who follow me shall be seated at the right hand of my pimped out waterbed. amen.

    yours in loving money shots to the face,

    roissy

    Like


  60. InterestedParty,

    Absolutely nothing is wrong with a raw sexual relationship.

    I do see a problem with engaging in sexual relationships, and then expressing contempt for those who deign to sleep with you. That is how roissy expresses himself, regardless of what sort of ‘performance art’ he thinks he is engaging in. If you don’t believe me, read the post about double standards.

    I’ve said I have no problem with the whole sex thing on other threads, just for having contempt for people you sleep with, and trashing ex-lovers online (be it directly or passive-aggressively), and describing women who don’t play things your way as “bitches.”

    Like


  61. roissy,

    I could respond line-by-line, but anyone who reads your last bit of malformed snark and scrolls back up won’t need my assistance.

    Here’s the deal. You aren’t entitled to any woman’s attention. The way you see things, if women don’t like the way men behave, the women have a problem. If men don’t like the way women behave, the women have a problem.

    Men have no problems. But you complain about these problems you don’t have on the internet.

    Plus, you apparently need our approval to have alpha status. But you can game us even if we aren’t attracted to you. You can create attraction, so you say. So how does your alpha status mean anything if it can be gained by acquiring women who do not recognize your inherent worth, but rather respond, like magpies, to the shiny whether it is foil or platinum?

    You express a dark, hollow, view of the world, and the only way it stays in place is if you feel superior to someone. So those lady-magpies suffice. If we aren’t taken in or charmed, then you don’t want us anyways, so that leaves you feeling superior to everyone female, unless they defer to you.

    The circularity of your arguments must be what gave our girl her name.

    Either you can’t write, or your world is dark, depressing, and flat, like some emo-goth kid’s high school pen drawing. Or like this second-to-last sentence.

    Like


  62. (Actually feminism seems to be an outdated word, should we not just use the phrase equality?)

    ::throws up in mouth::

    Feminism has had nothing to do with equality for at least the last 25 years. If it did, then feminists would be clamoring for:
    * equal numbers of women and men on the front lines, in coal mines, and in other dangerous occupations
    * general societal expectation of going dutch, in accordance with their beliefs about income
    * a long, long prison sentence for Debra LaFave
    * a long, long prison sentence for Crystal Gail Mangum
    * the chair for Mary Winkler (who is now being allowed visits with her children)
    * men to have the right to waive child support, in much the same way as women can drop their babies off at a shelter no questions asked
    * acknowledgment of the fact that women commit as many, if not more, acts of domestic violence then do men
    * television shows and ads that mock and ridicule women as often as they do men
    * etc.
    * etc.
    * ad infinitum

    Needless to say, feminists clamor for none of these things.

    I also challenge the feminist posters on this board to name ONE area of American society in which women still have it worse than men do. And don’t give me the thoroughly debunked ‘glass ceiling’, ‘$0.77 per $1’ or ‘so-and-so % of CEO’s / senators’ arguments, all of which are easily explained by *self-selected* differences in ambition and career commitment between men.

    Just one is all I ask.

    The motto of modern feminism is ‘Women have rights; men have responsibilities.’

    Like


  63. bradwell/hed waned poetic:
    I do see a problem with engaging in sexual relationships, and then expressing contempt for those who deign to sleep with you.

    i don’t advocate this nor do i know any men who do this.
    i mean, really, think mcfly. if i’m sleeping with a woman i like her.

    That is how roissy expresses himself, regardless of what sort of ‘performance art’ he thinks he is engaging in. If you don’t believe me, read the post about double standards.

    is does not equal ought.
    in my post ‘double standards’ (a ripping good yarn, i might add) i described the difficulties that men and women face in a world where the basic psycho-sexual differences between the sexes mean they will have to utilize oftentimes opposing strategies to get what they want. our goals are not always the same. this tension creates pain as well as joy.

    and describing women who don’t play things your way as “bitches.”

    bitchiness is an attitude independent of a woman’s desire to “play things my way”.
    there are many women who comment here who agree with you more than they agree with me and yet i wouldn’t call them bitches like i do you and dizzy.
    for example, i like alias clio.
    and rina is adorable.
    both of them probably sympathize a lot more with your viewpoints than they do with mine.
    i’ll leave it as an exercise for the reader why i treat them better than i treat you.

    Here’s the deal. You aren’t entitled to any woman’s attention.

    no, but it helps to act like i am. 😉

    The way you see things, if women don’t like the way men behave, the women have a problem. If men don’t like the way women behave, the women have a problem.

    non, simplisme!
    i have written extensively about the problems that men have which may make them less attractive to women. it’s unavoidable since getting notches requires improving oneself so that women become interested.
    i also write about those things that make women unattractive to men.
    funny thing is, most of my male readers don’t whine about my harsh judgements of their gender. they read and apply the lessons they feel are worthwhile.
    the female readers, otoh, react with great indignation and insults.
    my theoretical side says this is because women are the choosers and men the chosen, so men have a natural inclination to learn how to better themselves while women have a natural inclination to non-judgmentally support each other in a big bad world.

    plus, this blog is ultimately about game and sex, so much of my writing will exuberantly attack sacred cows and skewer conventional wisdom with great artistic relish.
    that you get offended tells me i’m doing something right.

    Plus, you apparently need our approval to have alpha status.

    i must’ve missed that memo.

    So how does your alpha status mean anything if it can be gained by acquiring women who do not recognize your inherent worth, but rather respond, like magpies, to the shiny whether it is foil or platinum?

    what makes you think they’re not seeing my inherent worth? good game means i am expressing my best qualities in the most effective way that will allow her to be receptive to them and open to learning more about me.

    You express a dark, hollow, view of the world, and the only way it stays in place is if you feel superior to someone.

    correction: i express a view of the world that makes you angry and defensive, and the only way you can rationalize the truth of what i say is to impugn my motives and moral compass.

    So those lady-magpies suffice.

    have you ever been in love, bradwell?

    If we aren’t taken in or charmed, then you don’t want us anyways, so that leaves you feeling superior to everyone female, unless they defer to you.

    if the woman isn’t taken in, i move on to another prospect. sour grapes is not my bag, man.
    and what’s with all this feeling superior talk? i mean, it’s self-evident, i don’t have to wait for a woman to spurn my advances to feel superior.

    The circularity of your arguments must be what gave our girl her name.

    no, it’s her agitated response to my care packages of love.

    Or like this second-to-last sentence.

    a part of me thinks you are a sock puppet. if so, i was amused. beats watching the local news.

    Like


  64. Yes. Feminists are so awful. He knows all about it. That’s why he dates women who can’t annoy him with their ability to speak the same language he does. But wait! Then they can’t understand when he tells them they’re worthless because he doesn’t want to sleep with them. (Because they’re too bitchy to want to sleep with him, of course). What then? How will they ever survive without some sort of rating system to determine their worth?

    Like


  65. bradwell/hedonistic:
    that still doesn’t support your argument.

    your obtuseness is not my problem.

    Nah, I was one of the women who turn down those who aspire to be like you (and by you I mean this performance-art Casanova you are online) and fail.

    i’m sure their hearts will go on.

    But I stick up for my girls, even the many who are nothing like me.

    my cuntry, right or wrong.

    You keep telling me you’re not a groper.

    keep?
    this is the first time i’ve brought it up, and it was in response to your mangling of my opinions.
    seriously, what planet are you on?

    Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.

    methinks you’re retarded.
    (somewhere, alias clio just tut-tutted this most rude lack of chivalry.)

    I don’t get all butt hurt if a gorgeous man doesn’t want to talk to me—what makes you so special?

    my golden cock.

    Because I’m nice like that. ;P

    your emoticon can’t save you now.

    Like


  66. tizzy:
    there’s a record. So we can see what you said, this time.

    come get me copper!

    PS – You sound, if possible, even a little more desperate, scattered and spittle-sputtering about nothing that anyone has actually said in these last posts. Is something getting to you?

    so tell me. are you really still single and in your mid-30s?

    Like


  67. What does a guy have to eat to make his cum tastier?

    Like


  68. jk:
    Of course there is. Men and women are different, but they can still be equal.

    that’s what i mean by equal in the legal sense. i don’t support any laws that would limit what career paths a woman can pursue.
    i simply point out that this freedom comes with costs… unintended consequences… and a big reason for that is the inherently different psychological makeups of men and women.

    If you would rather a woman without a high powered career, that’s fine.

    i never said this. in fact, looking back, i can’t remember more than two girls i’ve banged in the last few years who *didn’t* have high status careers.
    i personally have no problem dating women of any occupational stripe. well, except lawyers. they are the cuntiest of the cunts.
    what i do note on this blog is how a woman in a high powered career will naturally limit her dating pool of men and that this will have ramifications for age of marriage, number and health of children, and general success with dating. and that the types of women found in competitive jobs are more apt to be less feminine than women in more traditionally female jobs.
    many women have a problem with me pointing this out.
    i wonder why…

    Equality simply ensures that a woman (like anyone else) can choose that career if she wishes.

    sure, but if she chooses to get a phd and become a college professor odds are she will still be childless at age 40.

    I am (obviously) no expert on feminism, so I’m trying to get some insight into why it is so reviled on this board.

    what is reviled by me, and by most men who aren’t cowed into toeing the party line or angling to get in some leftwing girl’s pants, are the women who proudly carry the banner of early 21st century ideological feminism despite mounting scientific evidence that nearly all its core beliefs are wrong and despite the growing realization that its political goals are no longer about equality but acquiring power through the heavy-handed levers of the federal government, media, and the wymyns studies clusterfuck of the ivory tower.
    tizzy and bradwell, with their hackneyed DOA anti-male arguments and cultish adherence to the discredited school of gender deconstructionist social critique siphoned through their estrogen deficient afeminine personalities, perfectly encapsulate the archetype of this particular breed of bitch.

    oh yeah baby, i’m in the zone, don’t stop me now!

    I don’t see what people here are complaining about when they talk of these crazy mad feminists. They must go around torturing puppies babies for all the abuse they get here!

    they get what they give.

    Like


  69. “What does a guy have to eat to make his cum tastier?”

    It’s overlooked…but mostly it’s a texture issue?

    Don’t forget that taste is largely a function of smell, so smell is important, especially on a woman. And on a man, taste is mostly going to be a function of texture b/c you aren’t really smelling the jizz before it hits your tongue. Therefore for a man, taste is mostly a function of texture. If your cum is snotty then she’s going to want to spit it out regardless of taste.

    And regardless of what anyone says, I doubt there’s much fix for texture…except in the brain of the person doing the tasting. This goes both ways y’all.

    However, aside from the aforementioned “avoid asparagas and drink pineapple juice” here is from my personal experience:
    1. Lay off the meat and dairy. In the digestive tract, meat rots and dairy ferments, which gives you a stronger overall unpleasant smell.
    2. Tuna really does make you smell fishy.
    3. Corn tortillas make you smell like tortillas — which is a deliciously good thing…maybe this is why Mexicans refer to a woman’s pussy as her bread?
    4. Drink plenty of water.

    Like


  70. Also, to Peter: Way to fight the good fight.

    Like


  71. Thanks Lisa. You mean I have to turn vegan?? Damn!
    I’m not sure about tortillas but drinking lots of water is doable.

    Like


  72. VG: Fruits.

    However, the question really is what fruits can a feminist eat to make her personality attractive?

    Answer: None known to mankind.

    Like


  73. And for the last time: I don’t have some “version of ideologically-driven, untested seduction.” Your feminist straw man is NOWHERE in evidence on this board.

    I know what I will and won’t go home with. That is all. I would never pretend it matters much to anyone but me.

    You called me out when I laughed at you. (Again, a YEAR ago) I kept laughing. And you’ve continued to pretend this whole discussion matters. It doesn’t. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You don’t know how to talk about anything more substantive than ugly-stick jokes. And you’re boring people.

    Like


  74. The way you keep changing my name, so clever.

    And yes, you know how to pick up women but you can only tell us about the ones who will fall for your lines (Or let you think they do). But who knows more about a woman’s motivations and vulnerabilities? Me, a woman, or you, someone with all the charm and net presence of a weed whacker?

    So just to keep track, I’m 30, I menstruate (or aspire to, anyway) no man wants me, feminists say “blah blah blah” in some source you have yet to produce, you magically “know” that rape victims are pretty, I’ve failed to appreciate your “performance art,” and my personality is soooo bad… Is that all? Did I miss anything? Because you REALLY showed me.

    Like


  75. Oddly, 78 and 77 were supposed to be reversed. Your board,, which appears to share your challenges with linear thinking, cut out halfway through a post, then posted the next one before the one that was cut off.

    Like


  76. Roissy says: “as i said before, but which you conveniently bothered to overlook, who is going to know more about how to seduce a woman:

    a. me, a man who actually picks up women for sex.
    b. you, a woman who is not picking up other women for sex.”

    Interesting loophole in picking up women for sex: A female can actually do it pretty easily. Women are pretty easy as it turns out. Picking up straight women that is, I’ve never picked up a self-proclaimed lesbian. I only did it a few times for research and knowledge purposes and to prove I could, but the results were compelling. Apparently: I’m a female, therefore I don’t have a penis, therefore I’m not just looking for sex…and even if I am, there’s no hard feelings b/c….wait for it….I’m a female and therefore could not possibly be an asshole!

    So Roissy, being a male may just be your handicap. 😛

    However, this begs the question, where does the satisfaction really come from in the conquest? Because I’m here to tell you taking home the girls is not the best part. It’s the part up to then, when you see them falling under your spell that’s fun. It’s the attention that’s fun. I can totally see how it can go to a guy’s head and he builds his whole self worth around it. So what’s this about biology and spreading your seed around again? What’s this about merely being Mom Nature’s worker bee?

    Like


  77. He’s just a victim of over-generalization. Like this post: “The key is to distract her from logical thinking and make her focus on her runaway emotions, which is every women’s Achille’s heel. “ The women who sleep with him are emotional (which he preys on) so he thinks all women are. And later in the same post, he gives some gag-inducing line and says, “It works,” with something about how, again, he knows that all women will fall for anything if you say it smoothly.

    He only knows that the women he’s slept with fell for it. The rest of us, the ones who didn’t/wouldn’t, are cruel cockteasers, aggressive bitches or, I dunno, English speakers.

    Like


  78. Well my main point was that hurt is in the eye of the beholder, and also a product of conditioning. Me and Roissy could work the same game on you and you’d automatically demonize him and not me. Why, b/c I’m a female. That has been my experience.

    Now that doesn’t justify or make gaming an acceptable and mentally healthy lifestyle. That was my second point.

    Like


  79. Ah, good point. Also, I’m just guessing, but you seem unlikely to conclude that any resistance would be that much more proof of my flaws, and “unnatural” preferences.

    Like


  80. Ah, good point. Also, I’m just guessing, but you seem unlikely to conclude that any resistance would be that much more proof of my flaws, and “unnatural” preferences.

    Like


  81. Huh, WordPress cut out on me again…

    Anyway, refusing you doesn’t seem to come with a penalty. But refuse Roissy, and he spends weeks theorizing on cougars, feminist conspiracies, and testosterone surges.

    Like


  82. tizzy menstruated:
    And for the last time: I don’t have some “version of ideologically-driven, untested seduction.”

    do you believe game can make a man attractive to a woman he is hitting on if she does not initially find him physically attractive?

    Your feminist straw man is NOWHERE in evidence on this board.

    your hatred for men, sex differences, and universal standards of beauty drips like ochre pus from every word you write.

    You called me out when I laughed at you. (Again, a YEAR ago)

    we talked a year ago? this blog wasn’t even in existence then.
    are you stalking me? careful, people will think you’re in love!

    I kept laughing.

    oh look, your nose wiggles when you laugh.

    You don’t know how to talk about anything more substantive than ugly-stick jokes.

    how much do you weigh?
    how tall are you?
    do you do anal?

    And you’re boring people.

    and yet you keep coming back for more of my very special lessons.

    Like


  83. tizzy unleashed a torrent of menstrual blood on all the kittens in the world:
    But refuse Roissy, and he spends weeks theorizing on cougars, feminist conspiracies, and testosterone surges.

    you refused me? i must’ve missed the part where i hit on you.

    a cougar has never refused me because i have never hit on one. yet i write eloquently and devastatingly about the cougars’ low dating market value and pathetic club antics.
    so wassapwitdat, d.?

    Like


  84. cuntery continued:
    But who knows more about a woman’s motivations and vulnerabilities?

    i didn’t ask who had more knowledge of a woman’s motivations and vulnerabilities. i asked who would know better how to pick her up.

    Me, a woman, or you, someone with all the charm and net presence of a weed whacker?

    don’t mistake my rubbing salt in your gaping, bleeding wounds and pissing in your face for evidence that i lack the charm to entice women i like.

    ps:
    psssssssssssssss………….. ahhh!

    Like


  85. Feminism has had nothing to do with equality for at least the last 25 years. If it did, then feminists would be clamoring for:
    * equal numbers of women and men on the front lines, in coal mines, and in other dangerous occupations

    I’m an old-fashioned feminist, I suppose. I think that the west has been “feminist” ever since the chivalry tradition and the abolishment of polygamy by the church. I subscribe to Robert Heinlein’s take on women and equality. According to his main character Lazarus Long in Time Enough for Love,

    Whenever women have insisted on absolute equality with men, they have invariably wound up with the dirty end of the stick. What they are and what they can do makes them superior to men, and their proper tactic is to demand special privileges, all the traffic will bear. They should never settle merely for equality. For women, “equality” is a disaster.

    What Heinlein means is that because women are the only ones who can have children and ensure the continuation of the species, they should be protected and be elevated above men. A society that kills off most of its female babies will not survive long, but a society with ample women and a few men to impregnate them will have a balanced population in just a few generations.

    Women who demand to be exactly equal to men are really dragging down society as a whole. I saw a pregnant woman who was standing up in a crowded train, and not a single man sitting down offered her a seat, so I gave my seat up for her. Society has lost so much of its accumulated wisdom about how to take care of its future. Here’s another passage by Heinlein:

    All societies are based on rules to protect pregnant women and young children. All else is surplusage, excrescence, adornment, luxury, or folly, which can — and must — be dumped in emergency to preserve this prime function. As racial survival is the only universal morality, no other basic is possible. Attempts to formulate a “perfect society” on any foundation other than “Women and children first!” is not only witless, it is automatically genocidal.

    I have spoken to women in the military, and my husband has known them when he was in the marines. When he was younger he complained that women got to shower daily whereas he did not. Then he later learned that women have to protect their reproductive tract and ward off urinary infections by cleaning on a regular basis. Personally, I think they should not have been at boot camp in the first place. Women are not meant to suffer physical trauma to such an extent, because their reproductive apparatus for childbearing is fragile.

    There are countless more stories coming out of the recent wars about women in the military getting raped by their fellow soldiers. When I hear stories like these I am saddened. Here are women in their prime reproductive years doing soldiers’ work when are countless able-bodied men sitting idly at home, watching sports. Not only that, but these women welcomed it onto themselves because they felt like it is a great “opportunity.” Feminism has really deluded so many young women into believing that “true equality” is a good thing.

    I can’t help but think back to Heinlein’s words. For women, equality is a disaster.

    Like


  86. Also, to Peter: Way to fight the good fight.

    Thanks for the support.

    Struggling against the Tyranny of the Razor is a very difficult task, but I am going to keep at it until victory – or death.

    Like


  87. “your hatred for men, sex differences, and universal standards of beauty drips like ochre pus from every word you write.”

    I have not said one word about “all men” or “hatred of universal standards.”

    “do you believe game can make a man attractive to a woman he is hitting on if she does not initially find him physically attractive?” No. I think you spin fairy tales about the ability to control a process which is, and should be, essentially uncontrollable. It helps men feel safe from rejection. And any success a man has with this is similar to the “success” a domestic abuser has in gaining compliance. You got what you wanted by using psychological manipulation. Yay. You. You’re so smart. Everyone like you is impressed. Everyone not like you is kind of grossed out.

    “and yet you keep coming back for more of my very special lessons.” I’m fascinated. Your argument non-techniques are exactly like the training I received for dealing with domestic abusers – incarcerated domestic abusers, actually. It’s spin, negate, disorient, demand, insult, ignore, switch topic, lather, rinse, repeat. And you’re not going to quit. You’ll keep this up until everyone is bored because you can’t handle anything that could in any way diminish your ego. Every little threat – even a post I wrote a year ago which you quoted extensively and now want to pretend doesn’t exist (?!?!) – is WWIII to you.

    Like


  88. Dizzy & M Bradwell:

    “Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity.”
    -Marshall McLuhan

    I have to say I’m disappointed. At least feminists in past generations were better debaters than what I’m seeing today. You sound almost like politicians popping out talkings points and spin then actually saying anything meaningful against Roissy’s argument.

    Are you guys political campaign workers? I’m not saying that as a personal attack. I’m just wondering, because that would explain ALOT.

    Like


  89. “don’t mistake my rubbing salt in your gaping, bleeding wounds and pissing in your face for evidence that i lack the charm to entice women i like”

    Come on Roissy, less of the invective. You can fight better that that.
    Language like that really overpowers any good points you might be making, and comes across as childish.

    Like


  90. dumbass dumbassed:
    So just to keep track, I’m 30,

    ok, so we have that. not quite expired, but definitely past your prime.

    now let’s move on to the other questions:

    how tall are you?
    how much do you weigh?
    how do you rate your face on a scale of 1 to 10?
    do you do the reverse spider monkey?

    I menstruate (or aspire to, anyway)

    TMI.

    no man wants me,

    soon enough, tizzy, soon enough.

    feminists say “blah blah blah” in some source you have yet to produce,

    it’s not like they’re hiding their wretched little opinions from the world.

    you magically “know” that rape victims are pretty,

    back to putting words in my mouth, i see.
    what i said, since repeating my points a hundred times seems necessary before that coconut you call a head can read for comprehension, is that the majority of rape victims are in their prime fertile years, a fact which comports precisely with evo psych theory that rape is an alternative male strategy for passing on his genes.
    since the victims are in their prime years, there are better than average odds that they would be prettier on the whole than a randomly chosen set of women across all age ranges would be.
    this is not the same as saying that i “know rape victims are pretty”. you must be confusing me with one of your phantom roissys.

    I’ve failed to appreciate your “performance art,”

    of course you did. that is because it is at your expense.

    and my personality is soooo bad…

    well there we agree on something!

    Is that all? Did I miss anything? Because you REALLY showed me.

    how’s your love life?

    Like


  91. It’s hard to argue with “points” about menstrual blood on kittens. I try to correct the most obvious falsities. Other than that, what’s the point? He just “knows” that I hate universal standards, all men and the male sex drive – no evidence like a quote or whatever required.

    And where are my talking points and spin and moral outrage, again? So far it’s been Roissy trying to be insulting and everyone else asking, “What the hell?” Or reminding him, “No, you did say that.” Or speculating on why, exactly, the “emotional” little girls he supposedly rejected FIRST are all so… unnaturally… able to resist his charms.

    Like


  92. And Roissy says “blahhhhh” again, even while I’m posting about his inability to do anything more…

    Like


  93. Dizzy: “I’m just guessing, but you seem unlikely to conclude that any resistance would be that much more proof of my flaws, and “unnatural” preferences.
    Anyway, refusing you doesn’t seem to come with a penalty.”

    Excellent point.

    Not one ever did. Refuse me that is. 😀 In my admittedly short career. Which is why, after that initial success a single failure probably would have shaken me considerably. Yes, to survive you have to assume it’s THEIR problem to a large extent.

    Nullpointer: “I have to say I’m disappointed. At least feminists in past generations were better debaters than what I’m seeing today.”

    I thought we all knew the way to win an argument is to find something they can agree with you on and work from there. And the way to Change people’s minds is to find something you can agree with them on and work from there.

    Like


  94. Well, once more, we survived the threat of war and found a fragile peace. I thought I could give you all the gifts of the freedom from war, but.. I was wrong. It’s not mine to give.

    Like


  95. Silly Lisa. The way to win an argument is to change the first letter of the other person’s name and then say hopefully, “I’m getting to you, right? Right?” Maybe throw in a bloody kitten comment, too.

    Like


  96. lisa:
    So Roissy, being a male may just be your handicap.

    you have touched upon a profound truth.
    being male is, in a way, a handicap, and it was designed so by nature so that men may demonstrate their fitness to women by overcoming the handicap of being a guy just looking for sex.

    that is why a woman’s advice on how to pick up women, including herself, is so often at odds with the reality.

    Because I’m here to tell you taking home the girls is not the best part. It’s the part up to then, when you see them falling under your spell that’s fun.

    i agree.

    So what’s this about biology and spreading your seed around again?

    falling in love is the best.
    but picking up girls for flings is also fun.

    Me and Roissy could work the same game on you and you’d automatically demonize him and not me.

    dizzy is a product of her pain.

    Now that doesn’t justify or make gaming an acceptable and mentally healthy lifestyle.

    it’s different for men. we feel quite happy being in love and having sex with lots of hot women.
    after all, which lifestyle is more likely to be mentally unhealthy for a man:

    a. involuntary celibacy
    b. polyamory

    Like


  97. Goody. We’re off the kittens, and back to bald, unsupported assertions.

    Once again, what you want and prefer is not, necessarily, universal. YOU like to have sex with a number of different women more than you like to develop a relationship (can’t imagine why, or that you have any other option, given the maturity shown of late). YOU try to “demonstrate your fitness” to women through psychological manipulation. And it works, for you, but only with the women who (you say) sleep with you.

    Your experience is your own. It has little-to-nil to say about the universal mating process.

    And I don’t give a damn how many suitably skinny women you try to sleep with, as long as you could sort of maybe admit they might be something called “human” too, and so entitled to establish their own preferences, which may not include you.

    Like


  98. Dizzy – “It helps men feel safe from rejection. ”

    What the hell is wrong with that?

    Like


  99. Hope no. 89: I agree completely.

    Like


  100. This makes me sad. I can see Dizzy and M Bradwell telling young male kids, be yourself and don’t worry about it you’ll find the right person for you.

    She’ll just be ugly, have a terrible personality, and bust your balls.

    I think the ultimate irony is that people like Dizzy and M Bradwell were the catalyst for the creation of the seduction community and Roissy. Of course you’ll never believe, but here the madman fell silent and looked again at his listeners; and they, too, were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern on the ground, and it broke into pieces and went out. ‘I have come too early,’ he said then; ‘my time is not yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering; it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time; the light of the stars requires time; deeds, though done, still require time to be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than most distant stars—and yet they have done it themselves.

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  101. Bradwell too: ‘If we aren’t taken in or charmed, then you don’t want us anyways, so that leaves you feeling superior to everyone female, unless they defer to you.’

    Do dizzy and bradwell want guys who strike out to wallow in their loss or something?

    Like


  102. cat toy squeaked:
    He’s just a victim of over-generalization. Like this post: “The key is to distract her from logical thinking and make her focus on her runaway emotions, which is every women’s Achille’s heel. “

    generalizations are a useful way for navigating the world.
    for instance, old women are sexually worthless.
    chicks dig jerks.
    guys value looks more than any other attribute.

    The women who sleep with him are emotional (which he preys on)

    your choice of words to describe the beautiful process of seduction between two people is telling.

    so he thinks all women are.

    on average, women are more emotional than men.

    And later in the same post, he gives some gag-inducing line and says, “It works,” with something about how, again, he knows that all women will fall for anything if you say it smoothly.

    i never said all women will fall for anything.
    i said, in various ways and at various times, that saying the right things and acting the right way will increase a man’s mating prospects.
    why are you being intentionally dense?

    He only knows that the women he’s slept with fell for it.

    “fell for it”. telling, very telling.
    women respond consistently to certain stimuli, just as men do. that is why i know that what worked on the previous ten girls will have a better than average chance of working on the next girl i meet.

    The rest of us, the ones who didn’t/wouldn’t, are cruel cockteasers, aggressive bitches or, I dunno, English speakers.

    you didn’t have to reject me for me to peg you accurately as a high priestess of cuntiness.

    Like


  103. “I can see Dizzy and M Bradwell telling young male kids, be yourself and don’t worry about it you’ll find the right person for you.” But you admit we didn’t say anything like that, did we?

    And I think the “ultimate irony” is that if, as you say, the seduction community was created for women like me, Roissy just spend sixty posts frothing about what a bitch I am and how no one wants me or anyone like me. You just want us to want you, huh?

    Like


  104. “you didn’t have to reject me for me to peg you accurately as a high priestess of cuntiness.”

    Your debate skills are, as usual, breathtaking (and forever based on nothing more than your own fantasies and projections).

    Like


  105. So, um, since I’ve just been so mean to you on all these threads. I mean wow. The way I blew up and got all emotional spazzy and name-calling and kitten-threatening. (It’s because of my period, you know). And I can’t believe I may have suggested, seventy-five times or so, that you have no chance in the sexual arena because no one would ever want you. Or all those generalizations and accusations I made about “men everywhere.”

    It’s sad, really. Now I’m so *ashamed* of my poor behavior, inability to debate coherently, and blatant falsehoods, that I’m signing off and leaving you to your *fun.*

    Enjoy.

    Like


  106. PS – That was sarcasm Roissy. Because it was YOU who did all those things… See what I did there? Wasn’t that clever? Doesn’t that make me sooooo smart? Aren’t you sorry you’re not me? (although now you can quote the above and pretend it’s not sarcasm) Anywhoo *insert long, pointless rambling full of over generalizations about something or other related to sex here, instead of argument, with point* And there! I showed ya!

    Like


  107. Roissy!: “which lifestyle is more likely to be mentally unhealthy for a man:

    a. involuntary celibacy
    b. polyamory”

    Much as I love sex, I’d have to say either instance is mentally unhealthy if you are letting your sex life, or lack thereof, define you.

    Also let it be known that Dizzy started that last round.

    Like


  108. Who is agitated? Where is the “tizzy?”

    You can’t debate. You think it’s some clever, shaming retort to comment on the possible attractiveness of someone you can’t see. And you can’t handle someone who would question your version of a “seduction.” That’s all that’s going on here.

    Like


  109. tizzy tanked:
    I have not said one word about “all men” or “hatred of universal standards.”

    when i bring up the fact of universal beauty standards you have an epileptic fit right on cue.

    “do you believe game can make a man attractive to a woman he is hitting on if she does not initially find him physically attractive?” No.

    and that is why no man should ever take advice from you on how to pick up women.
    i have seen with my own eyes ugly men turn attractive women around with their game. the spark of attraction in a woman’s eyes is unmistakeable.

    I think you spin fairy tales about the ability to control a process which is, and should be, essentially uncontrollable.

    “should be”. you have just proven that your view of seduction is ideologically grounded in wishful thinking. you, like many women, want to believe it is a magical, unknowable process out of men’s hands, because if it were otherwise that would mean men had some POWER to control and alter the path to sex. and power is the last thing clacking, bitchy, feminist harpies like yourself want men to possess.
    i am here to tell you that your whole worldview is a pretty lie. the seduction process can be steered in a successful direction with the right maps.

    It helps men feel safe from rejection.

    you have no idea what you are talking about.
    the prerequisite of learning game is to open oneself up to MORE rejection, not to feel safe from it.
    eventually, a man gets so good that no one rejection bothers him.

    And any success a man has with this is similar to the “success” a domestic abuser has in gaining compliance.

    here you again with the inane domestic abuser analogies.
    were you, dizzy, beaten by a past lover?

    You got what you wanted by using psychological manipulation.

    “psychological manipulation”? you make women sound like impressionable defenseless frail creatures! and you wonder why i say you have a neurotic fear of masculine desire.
    no, WE got what WE wanted by my genuinely expressing myself in a way that the courtship could move forward.

    Yay. You.

    yay, me!

    You’re so smart.

    indubitably.

    Everyone like you is impressed. Everyone not like you is kind of grossed out.

    you want to hear something that will tear at your soul? i bet that the majority of *women* reading this secretly agree with my assessment of you.

    “and yet you keep coming back for more of my very special lessons.” I’m fascinated.

    of that i have no doubt.

    Your argument non-techniques are exactly like the training I received for dealing with domestic abusers – incarcerated domestic abusers, actually.

    and back to the domestic abuser smear by association.
    you are truly a bitter, revolting, man-hating piece of shit.

    It’s spin, negate, disorient, demand, insult, ignore, switch topic, lather, rinse, repeat.

    i answered all your insipid points. it’s not my problem if you refuse to acknowledge the truth.

    And you’re not going to quit. You’ll keep this up until everyone is bored because you can’t handle anything that could in any way diminish your ego.

    you are my cat toy. i like batting at you with my sharpened claws and watching you squirm.

    Every little threat – even a post I wrote a year ago which you quoted extensively and now want to pretend doesn’t exist (?!?!) – is WWIII to you.

    that quote wasn’t from a year ago. my blog started last spring. and don’t flatter yourself — whatever you say here in no way resembles a threat.
    blocklike stupidity, yes. threat, no.

    ps:
    cunt.

    Like


  110. lisa:
    Much as I love sex, I’d have to say either instance is mentally unhealthy if you are letting your sex life, or lack thereof, define you.

    answer: a. involuntary celibacy is metadeath for a man. he becomes a walking corpse, a shell of a human, a husk of nothingness crying out to the heavens and to his flickering computer screen of 2d wank material for salvation from his everlasting torment. otoh, polyamorist men and men who fuck on the daily are some of the most well-adjusted and happiest people i know.

    Like


  111. cuchulainn,

    Heck, no. No wallowing. Just realizing that people who aren’t interested aren’t bad people. If you chat up someone in the line in a coffee shop (male or female, friendly, not flirty), and they don’t seem interested in conversation, do you think you’re better than them? Or do you think that they’re busy or preoccupied or just not chatty?

    nullp0inter,

    have you noticed all the nasty, foul invective that roissy has directed my way? Have I even called him an asshole, even after he personally attacked me, and called me a “nottie” (directly) and a hysterical woman (indirectly). He referred to american women, saying:

    “American women have such unrealistic expectations, ridiculously out-of-sync standards, neurotically overblown egos, schizophrenic flakiness, and chronic selfishness.”

    I have never made such a nasty generalization about men, or even a subgroup of men, IN MY LIFE. And I’m the one who despises the opposite sex?

    Regarding advice to men about dating, I would give the same advice I gave a good friend of mine. He has no problem getting women, but he tends to attract the messed-up (albeit beautiful) ones. He does the fling thing as well, and his flings still are friends with him after the fact, but he really likes being in a relationship. His problem is that it is immediately apparent that he has no boundaries. What I mean by that is that he becomes really emotionally wrapped up in a woman (more so than typical falling in love), and does not give any thought to whether SHE is meeting HIS needs. He supports her interests, but doesn’t mind if she insults his hobbies, or selfishly drags him away from them. He wants to know what is going on in her life and career, but she is too self-involved to care much about his. (This “she” I describe is a generic “she”–there has been more than one woman in his life like this.)

    So, I told him that he needs to start thinking about whether the women he dates and gets involved with are as good to him as he is to them. That if they act like jerks, he’s got to call them on it, and if they don’t stop, he’s got to walk. I told him that if he spends any length of time with a woman, he will get to know her well enough that he will find her interesting (because he really is good at getting people to open up and at learning the interesting things about them.)

    I knew to tell him this because in my first relationship, I had been just like him. And like you were, in the relationship you describe on your blog. I put a lot of energy into learning all of the good and interesting things about my first boyfriend, and when he did jerky things, I forgave him without even bringing it up. Because I had never been so in love before.

    Yes, ideally, we should all be with people who treat us as well as we treat them. But even though it is not our fault if our significant other acts like a jerk, we need to learn to talk about it with them, and walk away if they keep it up.

    It was really hard for me to tell my second boyfriend that he needed to make time for me if he wanted me to stick around. It wasn’t just that he was busy with work, it was that he wasn’t even willing to ask me to stick around, be patient, wait for him until work got better. But he was adamant that we should remain together and be exclusive. Between that and the fact that he went from being super-supportive the day my uncle died (when I was still in shock and the grief hadn’t hit yet), to all but forgetting about it the next week when I came home from attending his funeral. He didn’t even ask how I was, and I looked like hell. This is the guy who used to notice that my mood was off when my coworker was being a dick.

    It sucked when I broke up with him, despite all that. But it was SO MUCH BETTER than sticking around like I did the first time. Since then, I’ve been lucky enough to date men who are just as much there for me as I am for them. I think I’ve gotten better at screening out the others on the first couple of dates.

    So I wouldn’t tell anyone to “just be themselves.” My first ex was himself, and he was a cheater and a coward. I was myself and I got utterly heartbroken, and I was a wuss, too. I didn’t stick up for what I wanted. So I would tell anyone who wanted my advice that they should learn how to present the most interesting side of themselves, that they should be self-critical and look at how they treat others, and that they need to be willing to tell the person they’re dating when there is a problem, even if it feels unloving. To realize that the other person is different, and may not always be considerate and giving in the same way you are, but to also make sure that the other person is at least in the same kindness-ballpark as you are.

    The hardest part is walking away from someone you love who just doesn’t deserve you.

    And nullp0inter, I read your blog, and your ex-girlfriend was not good enough for you. She never was. Sucks that you and I both had to learn that lesson the hard way.

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  112. tizzy:
    And you can’t handle someone who would question your version of a “seduction.”

    as i said before, but which you conveniently bothered to overlook, who is going to know more about how to seduce a woman:

    a. me, a man who actually picks up women for sex.
    b. you, a woman who is not picking up other women for sex.

    now unless you are a lesbian who hits on straight women i would like you to tell me why you think your version of ideologically-driven, untested seduction would be any more effective than mine which has been field-tested and is informed by evolutionary science.

    That’s all that’s going on here.

    you wish.
    ps: you write like a single mid-30s loser in love.

    Like


  113. Back to the original topic. In response to post #71 and #73…I’m vegetarian. A guy once told me (unprompted) that I tasted good, and said that it was probably because I was vegetarian.

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  114. lisa –

    i admit i am a narcissistic prick!
    but i truly do believe that a long term relationship with someone you love is the best thing in the world.

    as for prolonged involuntary celibacy, i don’t expect you to empathize because you are a girl, but the male sex drive is the most powerful force in the universe and when it’s denied a man loses his sense of self. he becomes a machine with all switches set to self-denial in avoidance of the crushing knowledge that the most important piece of being a full man is missing from his life — the love of a woman and the trust she places in him with the gift of her body.

    Like


  115. I’m gone. I’m not going to bother engaging with someone who peppers the dialog with his own addled iterations of the c-word.

    I think roissy has a lot of good, interesting things to say. But the way he deals with dissent is pathetic. I was here for a while because I wanted to see what kinds of conversations I could start up with the others posting on this board, after it became clear to me that r. won’t honestly reevaluate anything he says. (And yes, r., the half dozen studies I cited re: BMI did not use it as a proxy for WHR, they measured both, and performed a regression.)

    If anyone is still in doubt about who had the moral high ground in this series of exchanges, I propose the following exercise. Count up the number of times r. directed profanity at me, and count up the number of times I used profanity at all. Count up the number of times he impugned my sexuality, and the number of times I impugned his. (Unless disagreeing with him is impugning his sexuality, I think the number is zero or close to it.) I’m not hurt by the fact he did these things, because he is some guy on the internet whose game I would fend off if I met him in real life. But I am baffled that some people here seem to think he still has the moral high ground.

    The problem with wrestling a pig is you both get covered in mud, and the pig LIKES it.

    Hope you outgrow your male chauvanist piglet stage, kid.

    Oh, and I really liked hearing what Irina had to say. And Hope’s take on things. I see the world pretty differently than the two of you, but you gave me a lot to think about. And PA and sestamibi–I really respect the fact that both of you seemed to think I was really WRONG, but were really above-board and willing to be nice about it.

    Oh, and here’s looking at you, dizzy. 😉

    Like


  116. I’m hurt M Bradwell that there are no goodbye words for me.
    At least you agreed with me that US ages of consent are too high.

    Like


  117. Gannon,

    I’ll miss you too. Even though I don’t think I’m a reproductive dead end since I didn’t marry the guy I fell in love with at sixteen. (He was 26. I thought you’d approve.)

    And rhymenocerous and PA and alias clio and peter and nullp0inter, and pretty much everyone else here I talked with. Lisa. 🙂 Even if you think I’m not sexy sometimes. And David Alexander. Okay, this is becoming like that scene in labyrinth. Bye!

    Like


  118. “Gannon,

    I’ll miss you too. Even though I don’t think I’m a reproductive dead end since I didn’t marry the guy I fell in love with at sixteen. (He was 26. I thought you’d approve.)”

    I don’t believe that at all. But the law should not criminalize true love. It’s normal for teen HS girls to fall in love with twentysomething men. It’s the kind of love which can lead to lifetime romance and marriage. And teen girls (14 and above) are mature enough to consent, specially if the man is young (below30/35) childless and unmarried.

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  119. bradwell bleated:
    after it became clear to me that r. won’t honestly reevaluate anything he says.

    translation:
    “after it became clear to me that King Roissy My Master, Stealer Of My Heart And Burner Of My Loins won’t honestly capitulate to my version of the truth.”

    (And yes, r., the half dozen studies I cited re: BMI did not use it as a proxy for WHR, they measured both, and performed a regression.)

    as i explained, nothing in those studies refuted the universal tendency for men to prefer a 0.7 WHR +- 0.5. about the only thing you could point to would be that melanesian men like their WHR a little higher around 0.78.
    and the BMI preferences in those studies perfectly conform with the universal standard of 17 – 22 BMI being the most appealing to men.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/11132007/news/nationalnews/learning_curves_102877.htm

    i suppose if you’re a fatty built like a sausage you could travel to melanesia and pick yourself up a grateful man.

    one wonders why you and the rest of your feminist sisters are so emotionally invested in disproving the well-documented fact that men prefer a tight range of weight and hourglass figure proportions in women the world over.
    could it have anything to do with the fact that it bothers you that women are as beholden to the merciless machinations of the sexual marketplace as men are?
    mmmmmm……. could be!

    If anyone is still in doubt about who had the moral high ground in this series of exchanges, I propose the following exercise.

    there’s something you don’t seem to get.
    i have never held myself out as some piously moralistic gentleman of the court who strives to win your approval and a nice little pat on the head.
    to that, madam, i say fuck you gently.
    you see, i am here to have fun and pushing your buttons is part of that. if readers are gravitating to my side that is not because i am a moral paragon but because what i say has the ring of truth.
    oh, and i do it with style.

    The problem with wrestling a pig is you both get covered in mud, and the pig LIKES it.

    a better analogy is “if you ride on the back of a scorpion crossing the river…”

    Hope you outgrow your male chauvanist piglet stage, kid.

    i am a man.
    i believe that men and women differ psychologically and that those differences are inborn and as much a part of our natures as our limbs and eyes and desire to love and be loved.
    if this makes me a male chauvinist pig, then so be it.

    Oh, and I really liked hearing what Irina had to say.

    i like irina too.

    And Hope’s take on things.

    hope, redirect any jpegs of yourself to [email protected].
    it’s the courteous thing to do for all the entertainment i give you here.

    Oh, and here’s looking at you, dizzy.

    i knew there was something between you two!
    careful, people will think you’re in love.

    Like


  120. nothing in those studies refuted the universal tendency for men to prefer a 0.7 WHR +- 0.5.

    uh, 0.05?

    Like


  121. “Your debate skills are, as usual, breathtaking (and forever based on nothing more than your own fantasies and projections).”

    I’ve seen this technique employed a few times on this clusterfuck of a thread already.

    If you argue that someone else’s argumentation is illogical, it helps to give specific examples of how a statement doesn’t follow from another…or how it’s appealing to an authority…or whatever logical fallacy they teach you in freshman logic or philosophy.

    To my mind, nothing he said here doesn’t follow from some clearly laid out contentions. Not that I agree with them every single time, but you can’t say the arguments don’t have logical consistency.

    You can disagree with a contention or statement, but snarkily calling someone’s argument “illogical” or “breathtaking” or whatever is the telltale sign that you’ve lost the argument.

    nullpOinter may have been right ezrlier on, maybe these ladies work in advocacy or politics. Would explain a lot.

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  122. 2nd amendment.

    You don’t know shit about firearms, son. I can skin a buck, I can run a trout line…

    BTW, let’s see some of the gorgeous women you’re banging. Roosh is a total fraud, you are no different.

    Like


  123. H: “involuntary celibacy is metadeath for a man. he becomes a walking corpse, a shell of a human, a husk of nothingness crying out to the heavens and to his flickering computer screen of 2d wank material”

    Somatic narcissism:

    http://samvak.tripod.com/faq29.html

    And on reaction to loss:

    http://samvak.tripod.com/faq28.html

    Don’t get me wrong you’re still cool. That’s just what it seems to add up to is all.

    Like


  124. I’ll try to give you some positive advice Dizzy. Go out and marry some guy 10 years older and have a nice pair of children, it’s not yet too late for you to find happiness. And let go out all that bitterness.

    Like


  125. Gannon,

    I only hope the FBI is monitoring you. You’re a sick pup and if I caught you near my 14 year old daughter I’d have you locked up and would be present for every parole heariing.

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  126. To Jane
    1. I don’t live in the US. Different countries are ruled by different laws, or is the law of the US to rule the whole world?
    2. Average age of consent in the US is 16. I’m advocating a political proposal which would lower it to 14 for heterosexuals
    (just like in Canada, and tons of European countries), because I consider it just and according to natural law. Two years less is not a radical proposition. Americans should be ashamed of incarcerating young men. Or do you think it was fair for that 17 year old black guy (who was recently released) to get 10 year of jailtime for a blowjob from a 15 year old girl?
    3. When I’m in the US, I obey American legislation.
    4. What age of consent do you consider fair and why?

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  127. Or do you think it was fair for that 17 year old black guy (who was recently released) to get 10 year of jailtime for a blowjob from a 15 year old girl?

    It wasn’t quite as simple a story. If I recall correctly, the 17-year-old forcibly raped the girl, in what was some sort of gang situation. The prosecutors were concerned that the girl wouldn’t testify, or would be a very poor witness (again, I don’t remember all the details), and therefore the defendant might escape punishment entirely if they tried him for forcible rape. As a fallback plan, the prosecutors instead tried him for statutory rape, as that would be easier to prove. They figured that even though his punishment would be lighter than would be the case for forcible rape, it would be better than risking it all.

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  128. Canada’s age of consent laws are a little more complicated than you suggest, though you’re essentially right, Gannon. Here’s the relevant passage:

    “The Criminal Code does not now criminalize consensual sexual activity with or between persons 14 or over, unless it takes place in a relationship of trust or dependency, in which case sexual activity with persons over 14 but under 18 can constitute an offence, notwithstanding their consent. Even consensual activity with those under 14 but over 12 may not be an offence if the accused is under 16 and less than two years older than the complainant. The exception, of course, is anal intercourse, to which unmarried persons under 18 cannot legally consent, although both the Ontario Court of Appeal(3) and the Quebec Court of Appeal(4) have struck down the relevant section of the Criminal Code.” http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb993-e.htm#CURRENT%20LAW(txt)

    The fact is, though, that an adult man or woman is unlikely to meet persons of 14-18 unless these are indeed “in a relationship of trust or dependency” on the older person.

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  129. The fact is, though, that an adult man or woman is unlikely to meet persons of 14-18 unless these are indeed “in a relationship of trust or dependency” on the older person.

    relationship of trust or dependency,
    That means teacher, pastors, and even neighnors entrusted with the care and so on. Meeting HS girls in malls, on the street, at college parties (yeat, in my country HS girls like to attend University activities), parks, restaurants and so on is easy.

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  130. You would be much less likely to meet unsupervised teenage girls in any of the places you name here in Canada, Gannon, or even the US, with the exception of malls.

    In North America, families with children live in large suburbs far from the city centre, and public transportation is often poor, so until they’re old enough to drive at age 16, the young have to be driven everywhere by their elders. So unless you make a habit of wandering around the streets of suburbia, which would look odd and provoke comment,
    you couldn’t meet girls alone in the street. Nor in restaurants: laws regarding underage drinking make it unlikely that teenage girls under 19 would eat in restaurants without an adult present. The same laws would make it difficult for girls between 14-19 to get into most university pubs, and private parties on campus often require student ID for admission. Parks? Perhaps, but iffy. Men who hang out in parks and chat with girls are looked on with suspicion. Even malls are too busy and crowded to permit actual “meeting”, and again, a grown man approaching teenage girls on a shopping spree would be noticed and provoke comment – unless he looked old enough to be their father.

    I just don’t see many opportunities for men who aren’t teachers, etc., to try this kind of thing in North American social life, and on the whole, I’m grateful.

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  131. Yeah, several interesting points.
    In suburbia if you walk on the streets you are either a drug dealer, a homeless or a nut. The point is that in my country once you are in HS and around 15 you are treated as a young adult, and people in their early twenties don’t differ so much from people in their late teens anyway. It ‘s relatively socially accepted for a 15 year old girl to have a boyfriend as old as let’s say 26, and nobody really cares. In the urban area I live in there are tons of private all female HS girls, and these girls in their pretty uniforms (jumper, miniskirts) frequent fast food locals, music stores, clothing store and love being invited by handsome young men. For example, a friend of mine works in a clothing store (a relative owns the store). Just by spending some time with him you meet tons of girls. Also, HS girls go to college parties. So it’s easy .

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  132. alias:
    The fact is, though, that an adult man or woman is unlikely to meet persons of 14-18

    that’s what mall game is for. 😉

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  133. I must say Dizzy and H sounded like a couple so in love having one of those little fights…happens in every relationship.
    So, good luck to both of you! And Dizzy, like that ancient Indian saying goes, ‘may you be the mother of a thousand sons’
    As for age of consent, I think 16 is ok, 12 is a little way too low…14, it depends. i mean, human females are hardwired to have babies at puberty, which happens around 12 -14…if not, what’d they be having puberty for?

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  134. gannon – i would have no problem watching your public castration. Being BIOLOGICALLY able to have kids at the beginning of puberty does not make it RIGHT to engage in relationships with these preteens. Especially in the modern day where girls are getting their period as early as 10 years old. You are a sick F**k. Sure I had crushes on older men when I was a preteen guess what if anything would have happened I would be emotionally scarred like some other people I know. Majority of teenage girls are not EMOTIONALLY EQUIPPED to handle the emotional repurcussions of sex. While there are “some” sexually aware/advanced/mature teens NO MAN should EVER look as that as some excuse to satisfy their pedophilic lusts. You disgust me and I would not hesitate to take a wack at any man who so much as thought my future pre-teen/teen daughter was “mature” enough to CONSENT – then I’d let my husband a go at it.

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  135. It ’s relatively socially accepted for a 15 year old girl to have a boyfriend as old as let’s say 26, and nobody really cares.

    That may be the case where you are (Argentina? Uruguay? Chile?), but in the United States it would be considered statutory rape.

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  136. alias clio–

    How much will you bet that those laws will be dumped on the say-so of Muslim vermin living in Canada?

    Isn’t multiculturalism wonderful?

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  137. I don’t think the laws will be dumped any time soon, sestamibi. If nothing else, the conservative type of Muslim parents to whom you refer (I expect that’s who you mean by “vermin”) have too much of a vested interest in being able to dictate their children’s choice of sexual partners. They would undoubtedly prefer to tolerate later marriages among their offspring, than watch a 12-year-old daughter, emancipated from the need to ask her parents’ permission, accept the courtship of an 18-year-old Hindu or Christian or atheist.

    And if they do want their children to marry really young, they tend to send them back to their countries-of-origin to do so.

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  138. I’ll try to give you some positive advice Dizzy. Go out and marry some guy 10 years older and have a nice pair of children, it’s not yet too late for you to find happiness. And let go out all that bitterness.

    Before, she was “barren” and useless, now she’s “useful” for some fourty-something year old male? Maybe she doesn’t want children, or maybe she would prefer somebody from her own age.

    that’s what mall game is for.

    Gannon hitting on girls at Pentagon City or some other DC mall. I can already imagine the Dateline NBC footage…

    you couldn’t meet girls alone in the street. Nor in restaurants: laws regarding underage drinking make it unlikely that teenage girls under 19 would eat in restaurants without an adult present. The same laws would make it difficult for girls between 14-19 to get into most university pubs, and private parties on campus often require student ID for admission. Parks? Perhaps, but iffy. Men who hang out in parks and chat with girls are looked on with suspicion

    I still can’t get over your desire for teen girls. I find them to be rather immature and silly, and too cute and childish looking to have sex with. I’d much rather have a girl who’s older and more mature, and can actually discover her orgasm. Even if her fertility peaks at 18, I’d rather wait until she’s 24. There’s a sweet spot of sex appeal that girls get when they enter their early twenties, it peaks at their mid-twenties, can slowly decline, and not really appear to be noticeable until her mid-thirties and sometimes early-fourties.

    In suburbia if you walk on the streets you are either a drug dealer, a homeless or a nut.

    In a black or Hispanic suburb, you’re more likely to see people walking, especially since bus service is better in those neighbourhoods for obvious reasons. In my suburb, you’ll periodically see people walking or biking to the 7-11 especially in the summer or walking their dogs, but otherwise, more affluent the suburb, the less likely you’ll see people walking around. Even running for exercise is something you do inside your home or at the gym.

    It ’s relatively socially accepted for a 15 year old girl to have a boyfriend as old as let’s say 26, and nobody really cares.

    As I’ve said, it’s generally presumed that a man that age dating a girl that young is presumed to be some type of predator and loser. As I’ve said, there’s a difference between a 21 year old college student and a 15 year old girl. Even amongst adults, some Americans have a bit of a unease with a ten year difference between a 40 year old man and a 30 year old woman even if both are successful and in the same social class.

    You’ll frequently bring up stories of men who are shown divorced women with children, but it’s because society deems that these women are in “need” of husbands more than the single women.

    The point is that in my country once you are in HS and around 15 you are treated as a young adult

    In the US, even though legally, one is an adult at 18, and drinking legally begins at 21, one can argue that for many middle class youth, adulthood really doesn’t begin until 25. There’s a growing legion of those who stay at home and live off their parents into their mid-twenties, and many parents are increasingly subsidizing their childrens lifestyles into their adulthood to prevent them from struggling, and living in bad neighbourhoods like “failures”. So-called hellicopter parents who involve themselves in every aspect of a child’s life into college now are commonplace for the middle class. It’s really only the poor (and especially children from single parent homes) who become “adults” at the age of 18 or in some cases, younger. Similar trends have been observed in other Western nations, but it’s especially commonplace in Japan, hence by theory that child-rearing costs have increased due to the need to subsudize children to have the appearance of success. In certain circles, if your children attend public university, it makes the parents into de facto social outcasts for failing to put their children in a “proper” private university. Given the high costs of tutoring and private schooling and housing to live in the right neighbourhoods, in some upper middle class circles, women work in high powered careers, and stay-at-home and career women have less children in general to have enough money to pay for these children. $40k per year tuition for four years for three children adds up.

    In the urban area I live in there are tons of private all female HS girls, and these girls in their pretty uniforms (jumper, miniskirts) frequent fast food locals, music stores, clothing store and love being invited by handsome young men.

    I went to private school for 12 years, and those uniforms are not pretty or sexually enticing. What do you guys see in them?

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  139. Going back to feminists for a moment, what’s up with left wing groups like NOW? I just came across this little newsbit on the topic of the Teddy Bear Jihad:

    When asked by FOX News for a comment about the situation, a National Organization for Women spokeswoman said they were “not putting out a statement or taking a position.”

    I’ve come across evidence of similarly passive attitudes on part of Swedish and Norwegian feminist groups in response to the surge of Muslim immigrant rapes of native girls.

    Thankfully, at least in the US, organized left wing Feminism is a spent force and somethign of a joke. (Sadly, that seems not to be the case in Scandinavia.)

    I believe that their influence in the US has diminished for three reasons:
    1) Feminism’s now-untenable position on gender as a social construct, combined with their inconsistent views of women as men’s helpless victims;
    2) strategic miscalculations such as their many outrageous statements related to the Promise Keepers’ rally in 1997 — feeding the perception of their complete alienation from normal women;
    3) standing by their man during the Lewinsky scandal, revealing themselves as little more than cynical operatives;
    4) the wide and probably accurate perception of organized feminism being packed to the gills with redical lesbians.

    All in all, it ain’t about women’s rights, is it?

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  140. Raising other men’s children is generous, but a biological suicide.

    Not necessarily. Speaking in terms of evol-psych, if your step-kids are of the same ethnic group as you, there is plenty enough similarity between your and the biological fathers’s genes to make your investment worthwhile.

    Also, the step-children will bond with you, so hopefully you’ll be able to count on their support in old age.

    Obviously, marrying a woman who already has children is not an optimal situation, but it’s not necessarily so bad as to call it a biological suicide. Especially if you have a couple of your own with her too.

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  141. Obviously, marrying a woman who already has children is not an optimal situation, but it’s not necessarily so bad as to call it a biological suicide. Especially if you have a couple of your own with her too.

    That’s true. however
    1. raising children nowadys is very expensive
    2. Most women are not willing (or able) to have another 3 or 4 kids with you, but usually only 1. That’s not enough.

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  142. And dealing with the exdad is horrible. Also, I would feel like I stole a woman form another man. Divorced women really still belong to their ex husbands. Widows are an exception. Marrying divorced women means promoting the divorce industry. Don’t do it. Divorced women will divorce you too. Society should punish socially(not criminally) divorced women.

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  143. Even amongst adults, some Americans have a bit of a unease with a ten year difference between a 40 year old man and a 30 year old woman even if both are successful and in the same social class.

    That’s being a bit extreme. The 30-year-old woman would be within the man’s half-your-age-plus-seven dating range, which in any event is more a rule of thumb than a strict social custom.

    Even running for exercise is something you do inside your home or at the gym.

    You can cross “at the gym” out of that sentence. At least, that is, if the gym where I go is at all representative, and I see no reason why it shouldn’t be (it’s also the largest of its type in the area). The vast majority of the people who run on treadmills are under age 25, 30 tops, with women trending somewhat older than men. Actually, gym-goers in general tend to be very young. If you’re a man over age 30, your sole exercise normally consists of slumping in front of the idiot box watching The Most Important Sport in the World* while sucking down massive amounts of beer, chicken wings and nachos, with the occasional round of cartball.

    * aka the Almighty NFL

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  144. I’ve come across evidence of similarly passive attitudes on part of Swedish and Norwegian feminist groups in response to the surge of Muslim immigrant rapes of native girls.

    That’s because “Third Wave” feminism, which began in the early 1990s, is less about gender than it is about race and class. Upper / middle class white women are afraid to offend those from another culture. They want to “respect” ethnic women’s own opinions, and many Muslim women say that they love their veils and to be treated like property by their husbands.

    Personally I think it’s a load of bullshit, as these women only say what they are taught to say. The veiled and oppressed Muslim women are too afraid to admit that their situations are untenable. The white women are too afraid to offend people to try to change the situation. Moral relativism is silly in many cases. If westerners can experience outrage at ancient Chinese practices of foot binding, then why not about Muslim practices of rape?

    I believe that their influence in the US has diminished for three reasons:
    1) Feminism’s now-untenable position on gender as a social construct, combined with their inconsistent views of women as men’s helpless victims;

    I do not necessarily think gender can be understood in the extreme essentialist or social constructionist viewpoint. It is somewhere in the middle, just as the nature vs. nurture debate is not 100% one way or another. I’ve argued in the past that nature and nurture interact to produce the observable data. That got me quickly labeled as a dirty liberal who won’t look at “facts,” yet I’m a passionate subscriber to evolution and sociobiology. The grinding ax hits pretty hard.

    I think there, too, seems to exist an interaction between a socially constructed category and the individuals that are actually or potentially included in that category. Men who cry easily and are emotional will be seen as “feminine,” and might be subjected to taunting even if the reasons are justified (a dead parent or offspring). Such men may modify their behavior, and perhaps even their attitudes towards emotions in general, in order to lose the stigma of being a “crybaby” and be (re)classified as a “man.” It is not exactly natural for a person to suppress intense feelings in the event of a trauma, but because society has narrowly defined categories of behavior, people must squeeze into them or risk being castigated.

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  145. To dre
    I think you are a confused, and rather supid woman. I clearly said that preeteens are granted sexual indemnity. What I said is that age of consent should be lowered form 16/18 to 14, because at that age young females have essentially adult IQ and developed bodies. That’s the age of consent in most of the world by the way. Pedohiles like girls under 12 by the way, so start using the appropiate language. And don’t think if needs arises I can’t defend myself.

    To sestamibi:
    you are right, muslims are demanding sharia as family law, specially in Europe. According to Sharia, girls can marry at 9 years of age (so people here on this board can see how moderate 14 really is).
    that’s what mall game is for.

    Gannon hitting on girls at Pentagon City or some other DC mall. I can already imagine the Dateline NBC footage…

    Actually, I prefer girls over 16. (At 16 and 17 women are very attractive).
    Most middle class people are supported financially until they are 25 here too. Since wages for non qualified labour are low, there is no other way. But at around 15 you start making your life without parental supervision.

    You’ll frequently bring up stories of men who are shown divorced women with children, but it’s because society deems that these women are in “need” of husbands more than the single women.
    Raising other men’s children is generous, but a biological suicide. I can understand that 45 year old men are presented 28 year old divorced women with kids, but such a proposal for a young man looking for a first marriage is offensive.

    I’ll try to give you some positive advice Dizzy. Go out and marry some guy 10 years older and have a nice pair of children, it’s not yet too late for you to find happiness. And let go out all that bitterness.

    Before, she was “barren” and useless, now she’s “useful” for some fourty-something year old male? Maybe she doesn’t want children, or maybe she would prefer somebody from her own age.
    Men her age are dating college girls.

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  146. I think you are a confused, and rather supid woman. I clearly said that preeteens are granted sexual indemnity.

    I don’t think she’s confused and stupid. She did state “pre-teen” and “teenage” in her post. There are studies that point out that decision making abilities of girls at that age are not at adult level yet, so it remains to be seen if a female at that age with full adult IQ can make a decision to have sex with an adult who can easily goad her into sexual activity. From my experiences, the harsher demands of the adults on young 14-15 year old girls does leave some emotional damage on the girls.

    Fun question for you Gannon, if 25 year old men can have sex with 14 year old girls, should 25 year old women have sex with 14 year old boys, or is that “molestation” for you?

    But at around 15 you start making your life without parental supervision.

    Again, that’s a big difference between Argentina and the US. Parents play a big role in controling their children until 18 or so. The parents who let their children run freely in their teen years are deemed to be “bad” parents. Most parents would never do that for fear of their children becoming drug-addicted, pregnant, or criminally involved.

    Actually, I prefer girls over 16. (At 16 and 17 women are very attractive).

    Some of them are attractive, but a good number of the girls at that age still look too childish for my tastes. Their older counterparts have that bit of maturity in their looks that makes them sexually appealing to me. My porn collection has quite a bit of MILFs and mature looking 18-21 year old women, but very little in terms of porn where the girls look young.

    Raising other men’s children is generous, but a biological suicide. I can understand that 45 year old men are presented 28 year old divorced women with kids, but such a proposal for a young man looking for a first marriage is offensive.

    But it’s for the good of the community! 🙂

    Seriously, you’re rather obsessed with genetic purity, and it fuels your thoughts to what I would consider a dangerous degree. My dad married my mom who had one child, and he had two more children, and they married at 30. It’s not a dead end, and if they love each other, who cares about they’re arrangement if they’re both consenting adults, and the children get along with the new step-parent?

    Oddly, PA brings up some good points about being a step-father. If you stumble upon a single mom, marry her, and the kids become rich and important, you can take some pleasure in noting that you played a role in that.

    Most women are not willing (or able) to have another 3 or 4 kids with you, but usually only 1. That’s not enough.

    For some people, that’s more than the number of kids they would have had if they didn’t pool around single mothers. Your example of the 40-something male with no prexisting children, marrying the single mother applies, since she too would be less likely to have more children as well.

    Men her age are dating college girls.

    In the United States? Maybe Dizzy doesn’t want some crusty old man touching her? Maybe she’d prefer somebody of her own generation that she would have something in common with. Marriages are really best friendships between men and women who share a common bond. They’re no longer simply government sanctioned and supported unions designed for breeding.

    Society should punish socially(not criminally) divorced women.

    That’s the second to worst thing that I’ve heard from you. There is no need to punish divorced women for any reason. Many people break up for various reasons, and it’s not my right to chastise them for their choices. There’s no need for people to stay in unhappy marriages together.

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  147. raising children nowadys is very expensive

    It’s interesting to note that you’ve finally realized this. The problem is that even though, you believe that young women and older men should date, it doesn’t solve the problem that in some places, two incomes are needed to achieve a middle class lifestyle, and your system doesn’t allow for that since early child birth nukes career opportunities. So, in the interests of satiating my own curiosity, what are your plans for “solving” that problem?

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  148. gannon –

    i stand by what I said you are asick F++K

    Me stupid? No

    Selfless aren’t you – of course YOU would know what a 14, 15, 16 year old CAN HANDLE as far as sexuality is concerned –

    Also, while I dont condone kids having sex – kids having sex with each other and “experimenting” is a far cry from a “YOUNG” man of under 35/36 engaging in sexual activity with a KID – thats right you heard me – Adult IQ? Sexual fertility? You are an example of scum – Have you heard of emotional maturity? Physchological maturity? RARE is it to find that in kids 14-16. And frankly even 17-18 is suspect – but you know what – I understand some leeway, especially with girls closing the gap to 20 BUT you speak as someone WHOSE ONLY DESIRE is to fulfill your maximum desire regardless of the mental state or maturity of a girl.

    What about concern for her? NO you are more interested in maximzing your erection. Of course girls between 14-18 are beautiful – they are full of youth, vibrant, full of life, AND for the MOST PART INNOCENT of real world (depending on how they grew up)

    You would rather take that from them when they are least able to handle the repercussions then cool your “pedophilic” desires – thats right you heard me – as far as im concerned pedophiles dont just go for children – but for sexually developing kids – its a subset of pedophiles – dont kid yourself into thinking that a difference of a year or 2 (14 versus 12 or 13) somehow makes you less sick.

    For all you assholes talking about biology and touting its supremecy – why dont we make it ok for any man to have sex with girls the moment they are able to sexually produce. Its a “logical biologically backed” step isnt it?

    Men who are substantially older who feel its ok to go after under 20 girls are predators – simple is that. While there are RARE examples of lifelong lovemates – I guarantee you at the heart of these rare relationships was the man’s concern for the girl’s emotional and well-being and his desire NOT to take advantage of her but to also guide her. I understand love to a point is ageless. But only to a point – genuine love exists rarely and even less so when its a man who bases his driving attraction and selection of a woman on her “peak” beauty at the age of 14-18.

    I dont believe men and women are the same – I do believe in biological and psychological/emotional differences btween the sexes. I also believe something separates us from the animals and gave us dominion over them – call it soul, self-reflection, thought, whatever … the point is for all you MEN – we are not mere animals and to base your dumb ass rationalizations PURELY on biology is clearly wrong when so much of what makes humans uniques from other non-primates is our ability to think and feel in a way that for all intent and purposes makes us less ANIMAL or a hybrid of sorts of both biological and spiritual (Im not religious) impulses.

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  149. and one more —-

    maybe instead of MEN doing analysis on what a women is or isnt able to handle – why dont you ask a woman…

    NO one would ever think to ask a woman what goes on in a man’s mind or tell him what he needs or wants to achieve happiness

    yet somehow men are so fucking secure in their ability to tell a women who she is and what she wants and what she can or cant do.

    I ‘ve read alot of posts and comments and I generally find them interesting if somewhat cruel and tasteless or even plain wrong or misguided – but that whole nonsense on the lowering the age of consent and childrens sexual maturity level – I draw the line.

    Its not female sexual jealousy (as I am sure men would like to characterize it) but its understanding and seeing the damage that can do. Especially in a day and age where men wont hesitate to fuck a girl he desires and rejoice in his victory and turn around and call her a used up SLUT for spreading em in the first place. Bunch of fucking hypocrates.

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  150. One of these days Gannon is going to stop hijacking threads to talk about lowering age of consent to 14. When is that going to happen? Don’t know but I can guess. When you finally spawn and have your little bundle of joy grow up to the magical age of 14, you can get back to us about her 23 year old boyfriend who lives with his parents, has no job, watches anime all day and has a steady diet of poptarts and weed…but damn does he enjoy tappin that ass. Cause you know 14 year old girls are so goddamn rational, nah mean.

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  151. Oddly, PA brings up some good points

    Oddly? Don’t you mean “as usual” ?

    Upper / middle class white women are afraid to offend those from another culture.

    Blogger Mencius Moldbug promotes a qiurky but interesting theory about how the Western upper class “Brahmin” caste, which includes virtually all left wing organizations, is in a de-facto alliance with non-white criminals and non-Western immigrants who serve as paramilitary castes against the middle and lower class whites, the Brahmin’s real enemies.

    Looking at the feminists’ attitude toward rapes from this angle makes it plausible that some Pakistanis’ gang rape of a Swedish girl whose parents can’t afford to move out of Malmo isn’t entirely something they would be outraged by.

    And some dopey English schoolteacher doing God-knows-what in Khartoum? Better throw her to the wolves… especially since said wolves are friends that must be cultivated.

    Interesting theory anyway, take it or leave it. As far as respecting or offending other cultures? My view is truly multicultural: I don’t give a fuck if women in Saudi Arabia wear burkas; I just don’t want them (or their men) in my own country.

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  152. By the way dre, you are wrong about me. I’m 24 and my gf is 17, which I think is still acceptable for your standards. And I intend to marry her. I’m an honorable man.

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  153. I’m 24 and my gf is 17

    I still think that’s too young, and I think you’re depriving her of enjoying her life, and doing all the fun stuff that young people do, like travel, drink, and fuck around and have few responsibilities.

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  154. It’s her choice you know. Her freedom.

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  155. As long as we dont talk about (promoting/rationalizing) adult men having sex with children I am cool…enough said. Like I said things get hazy once the girl is around 20…I can’t say anything about that. At that age they all think they are “ADULT.” Until they get older and realize they were kids.

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  156. dizzy:
    Total lie. Which you seem unable to quite repeating.

    that is because i know it gets under your skin.

    I agreed with you that they exist. I don’t care about them beyond that.

    of course you don’t. it’s your last gasp defensive posture.

    The problem is, you are talking about exerting power and control over another person.

    it figures you would equate seducing a woman with exerting power and control over her.
    what i am talking about is control over the direction and pace of the seduction itself by APPEALING to the woman’s needs.
    unless you’d care to argue that a woman wearing makeup is akin to exerting control and power over men.

    Yet you expect women to put up with your “seduction” and feel honored?

    for “puttiing up” with my charms they sure have a big smile on their faces.

    And you think you want to fall in love, someday?

    love and learning how to seduce a woman are not incompatible.

    But, well, you seem to be working on making some money/getting some attention from men

    no, i am here for fun.

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  157. “Total lie. Which you seem unable to quite repeating.

    that is because i know it gets under your skin.

    I agreed with you that they exist. I don’t care about them beyond that.

    of course you don’t. it’s your last gasp defensive posture.”

    It gets under my skin because I never said anything like it. And it’s not my last gasp defensive posture – I was never defending the point, at all. Because I never argued it.

    “But, well, you seem to be working on making some money/getting some attention from men

    no, i am here for fun.

    Now it’s fun to repeatedly call people c—s? (as long as they don’t make fun of you back…) Or it’s fun to get some attention by pretending there’s this big bugaboo of bad, bad women out there and you, you can protect the men! Just memorize this line, date only foreign women who don’t have “American hangups” (like a crazy expectation of respect), and you’ll be powerful, boys! Sure. Good times.

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  158. “The problem is, you are talking about exerting power and control over another person.

    it figures you would equate seducing a woman with exerting power and control over her.”

    That’s your equation. You repeatedly say women “can’t be trusted to say what they want.” Are “emotional” and respond to “triggers” predictably. Oh, and that they only gain power when they gain the attention of a man (your female alpha post, your comments about number-one-asset) That’s not saying they respond to control? Because god knows you’re not listening to them or treating them like equals.

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  159. “for “puttiing up” with my charms they sure have a big smile on their faces.”

    That’s what you say. On a board where you get money/attention/whatever for making such claims.

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  160. Wait a weekend, come back, and it’s still as bad as I thought it was.

    Roissy: You don’t seem fond of mockery, or as you call it, “performance art,” when practiced by someone else. It sort of turns you into a misogynistic Donald Duck, “c—, c—, c—, c—!!!!!!!” And stop trying to say feminists care about objective standards of beauty. They don’t. I’ve never been upset about it. It’s nowhere on this or any thread. You got caught on this lie in your first rant, when you misstated “The Beauty Myth,” I shouldn’t have to keep correcting you.

    DCDP: Way to wait til the smoke clears to add your two cents, and no, I’m the furthest thing from a campaign professional. Also, Roissy’s points only hang together when he’s doing a red herring. He can’t argue, otherwise. His comments are all: red herring, ad hom, affirm the consequent, red herring, ad hom, ad hom, ad hom.

    Gannon: Give it up. This insistence on your “right” to date a 12-14-year-old is nothing more than a long rationalization for pedophilia. But I do think it’s interesting that you’re Roissy’s biggest supporter. Way to show how much you all care about women.

    As for a point-by-point “answer” to such cleverness and “logically-together” arguments as Roissy’s repeated name calling, as requested, who has the time? (And no one noticed that I called Roissy’s debate skills “breathtaking” in reference to yet another c— comment of his?) But I did pick up on this:

    Roissy: “when i bring up the fact of universal beauty standards you have an epileptic fit right on cue.”

    Total lie. Which you seem unable to quite repeating. I agreed with you that they exist. I don’t care about them beyond that.

    Roissy: “here you again with the inane domestic abuser analogies. were you, dizzy, beaten by a past lover?”

    It’s not an analogy. I’m flat-out telling you: You reason (loose use of the term), attack and base your arguments on the assumptions used by domestic abusers. One of the best examples is when you say, “I’ll leave it up to the reader to determine the difference in treatment,” regarding why you’re nice to women who agree with you, and repeatedly refer to women who disagree with you as c—-s. It shows that you think a woman has to earn the “special” treatment of not being called a c—– You don’t have the self-control to say, “I don’t treat women poorly because I’m not that kind of person.” You act like it’s up to THEM whether or not they get called a c—-. And you, you’re just this innocent victim.

    It’s sad. I doubt you’ve ever hit a woman. But I’m pretty sure that every woman you’ve been involved with managed to “deserve” you doing something humiliating and anger-based to her. Maybe changing the answering machine message on her phone. Yelling at her in public. You know, your basic “Put you in your place” stuff (and something you’d be pretty upset about if you heard a woman doing to a man).

    Roissy: ““should be”. you have just proven that your view of seduction is ideologically grounded in wishful thinking. you, like many women, want to believe it is a magical, unknowable process out of men’s hands, because if it were otherwise that would mean men had some POWER to control and alter the path to sex. and power is the last thing clacking, bitchy, feminist harpies like yourself want men to possess.”

    This is you playing to your base. POWER to men, right? The feminists want to take it all away, wah! The problem is, you are talking about exerting power and control over another person. You don’t have the right to do that. There’s a lot on this board about “harpies” and “nags.” Because no one likes to be controlled. And I wouldnt’ expect you to put up with a woman’s board where we talk about how to manipulate you boys into doing what we want either. (I’m picturing posts like, “Men are so emotional, it’s easy to play on their wittle feeligns to get them to take out the trash. And don’t believe them when they say they don’t want to. They don’t know what they want….) Yet you expect women to put up with your “seduction” and feel honored?

    You can keep calling it a “beautiful process.” But, well, we only have your word to rely on regarding all the “wonderful fun” the women you “pump and dump” are having.

    And you think you want to fall in love, someday? That’s great. But with what? All you’re ever going to get when you manipulate people is someone being manipulated (my first point, if you remember).

    So what’s in it for you, besides the “fun” of watching people “fall under (your) spell” (your words)? Obviously not true love, which requires equals making a choice from free will. Otherwise it’s like a man and his dog. One’s in charge, one’s there as long as she’s fed.

    But, well, you seem to be working on making some money/getting some attention from men who need to hear your “message.” I think it’s pretty clear that, and not some new world order with men keeping the upper hand through memorizing “patterns” and whatever else, is what you’re really after.

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  161. Dizzy, I’ve disagreed quite sharply and persistently with Roissy concerning perhaps 2/3 of what he writes here. And I always find the language a bit much for my tastes. But since I keep reading, I don’t figure it’s my place to make an issue of it.

    But back to the disagreement question: Roissy has not been hostile and verbally abusive to me (though some commenters have been, from time to time), presumably because I have tried to be polite when I show up here. I think he’s been too harsh with you and to some degree has misread you, but then, you haven’t been esp. polite or read him that closely either.

    Another point: I’ve discovered as I’ve kept on reading this site that “game” isn’t quite what I thought it was at the start. It isn’t a series of tricks and deceptions. It’s a way for men to increase their self-confidence when meeting women, so that they are able to pursue a courtship without coming unglued by self-doubt. I think Roissy means it when he says it isn’t supposed to make anyone feel bad.

    I suspect it probably does end up hurting people. But then, I begin with the assumption that the pursuit of casual sex nearly always does hurt someone, and probably both the parties who engage in it, even if this is not immediately apparent. However, it’s especially likely to cause hurt if it’s pursued dishonestly, by men and women who do not make their intentions plain. From what I’ve read of Roissy, he doesn’t misrepresent himself (though he keeps some things concealed) and doesn’t encourage his, er, acolytes to do so, either.

    As you don’t appear to have any animus against casual sex as such, let me ask you how you think it can happen, without “game” strategies of some kind? It takes some courage, practise, and smoothness for a man to approach strange women repeatedly. Women can be quite as severe in their judgments about a man’s income, personality, and prospects in life as men are in their judgments about a woman’s appearance.

    I think the emphasis on looks here is excessive, and perhaps lacking in nuance. But it’s not unrealistic: men do tend to attach greater importance to women’s appearance than women do to men’s. Women care more about personality traits. The point of “game” is to develop the kind of personality and self-presentation traits that women tend to find appealing. In any case, it seems to me that once again, the emphasis on looks (as upon “game” – i.e. smoothness) is inevitable in the context of casual sexual encounters.

    My point here is that unless you take on the whole apparatus of casual sex and the moral issues it raises, there’s no point complaining about the role that either beauty or “game” have in making it possible.

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  162. “But back to the disagreement question: Roissy has not been hostile and verbally abusive to me (though some commenters have been, from time to time), presumably because I have tried to be polite when I show up here. I think he’s been too harsh with you and to some degree has misread you, but then, you haven’t been esp. polite or read him that closely either.”

    Roissy wrote a post about me. Before that, I was quite polite too. And I have read him and respond to what I can. But I do have to just ignore the points that are obvious (and generally repeated) lies, such as his “You get all upset about universal beauty standards.”

    “The point of “game” is to develop the kind of personality and self-presentation traits that women tend to find appealing. In any case, it seems to me that once again, the emphasis on looks (as upon “game” – i.e. smoothness) is inevitable in the context of casual sexual encounters.”

    I can agree with the idea that a man should improve himself, and take steps to increase his confidence. I just question as to why this has to be paired with comments like, “Pump and dump.” And I agree that a woman’s attractiveness is more important to a man than vice versa. I just think it’s really uneducated to imply or outright say that a woman only has power when she attracts a man, which Roissy has claimed repeatedly.

    And I’m more saddened than anything else by his dichotomy here. “Men get money so they can have sex with women who diet.” Yay. That’s fine as far as it goes. But if Roissy believes that’s all there is to it, why the completely out-there anger? He has something like 60 posts using the c— word, making direct, personal attacks. Whereas I implied that his reasoning is not all that it could be, and said I laughed at him. I don’t think it’s comparable at all. Especially considering, again, that he wrote an entire post about me. Then made a series of obviously false claims.

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  163. “Roissy wrote a post about me. “ Make that, “Roissy wrote a verbally abusive post, about something that I honestly cannot remember writing, directed at me.” Thanks 🙂

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  164. And let’s not pretend that there’s some level where it becomes ok to act the way Roissy has on this, and other, threads. You don’t refer to women as c—- and cum-dumpster, no matter what they say to you, unless you want to be known as someone who will refer to women that way. Being nice enough to you to not “deserve” to be raged at is not the woman’s job. It’s the man’s job to decide how to act. Roissy’s made it clear how he acts. I don’t think I, or any woman, should have to be nicer to him to avoid the abuse. And I would question any woman who treats men the way Roissy treats women.

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  165. Well, I do think that Roissy has made you a bit of a straw-woman feminist. It’s that figure he’s reacting to, rather than your actual words, in many instances.

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  166. Yeah, I agree. He keeps saying, “You always say…” when I haven’t said it once, or have even said the opposite. And he started his first post about me by saying I’m “afraid of male desire” and will call him “master.” He doesn’t know me. It seems like he pretended I was something he could yell about, just to get more attention for his site.

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  167. pissy:
    Now it’s fun to repeatedly call people c—s?

    if the wizard sleeve fits…

    (as long as they don’t make fun of you back…)

    is that what you’re calling it?

    Or it’s fun to get some attention by pretending there’s this big bugaboo of bad, bad women out there

    it’s clear from years of femfanatic brainwashing that you have an impossible to dislodge image in your head of guys such as myself who won’t toe your misandrist, gender egalitarian party line.
    for instance, i don’t claim there is a big bad bugaboo of women. i describe reality and tensions in the dating market that result from innate male-female differences as well as pressures from social trends like the increase of careerism among fertile age women.
    or: describing reality != moral judgement.

    and you, you can protect the men!

    i’m not here to protect the men from anything. i give advice gleaned from personal experience and buttressed by science on how to score with women and they can take it or leave it.
    if i could have my way, i’d rather all the men turn gay and leave me with my choice of the women.

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  168. Roissy, again. No one on here said anything like what you’re claiming. If you want to keep making these claims, come up with a cite. Otherwise, you’re just noise.

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  169. And yes, your advice is personal experience, about the women who you say are willing to sleep with someone like you, and nothing more. That’s what I’ve been saying all along.

    But if you really want men to all turn gay, why work so hard to get more attention for the site, then? Why not hog all the girls who you say respond to this, for yourself?

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  170. another torrent of menstrual flow:
    You repeatedly say women “can’t be trusted to say what they want.”

    slight correction:
    the best way to figure out what a woman truly wants in the *sexual marketplace* is to watch what she does rather than listen to what she says.
    most men who have lived a day in their lives understand this basic truth.

    Are “emotional” and respond to “triggers” predictably.

    true. most women are more emotional than most men. alert the media.
    and both men and women respond to triggers. the difference is the type of gun the trigger is attached to.

    Oh, and that they only gain power when they gain the attention of a man (your female alpha post, your comments about number-one-asset)

    not quite.
    a woman can get the attention of men simply by flashing her tits.
    alpha female power derives from securing commitment from a top quality man.

    That’s not saying they respond to control?

    it’s not surprising that you see courtship and seduction through the pinched prism of control and coercion and manipulation. either you must have been hurt by a man very badly who walked away with your heart in tatters, or you have been utterly brainwashed by too many “take back the night” marches.
    i suspect you are of scandinavian ancestry.

    Because god knows you’re not listening to them or treating them like equals.

    men and women are not equal in the way that feminist like yourself want them to be.
    they are different.

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  171. But if you really want men to all turn gay, why work so hard to get more attention for the site, then?

    work?

    Why not hog all the girls who you say respond to this, for yourself?

    the practical reality is such that i can afford to dispense my wisdom to the masses without seriously impacting my love life.
    or maybe i’m a humanitarian after all!

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  172. another torrent of menstrual flow:”

    Either you want a “performance art” piece of verbal slams and comments like this one, or you want a debate. But don’t try to pretend you can have both.

    “the best way to figure out what a woman truly wants in the *sexual marketplace* is to watch what she does rather than listen to what she says.”,/i>

    Now we’re back to my original comment: YOU can only tell us about women who, you say, sleep with you. Your experience is not universal. You can only educate us on how a man such as yourself, who refers to women as cum-dumpsters and pump-and-dumps, can talk a woman into going home with him. And then you can assure us it was a lot of fun. You have to realize your stories are only valid as a personal anecdote.

    “alpha female power derives from securing commitment from a top quality man.”

    This is not better than what I said you said (and I understood you the first time, too). A woman’s power as an alpha, someone with influence, in your estimation, can only be achieved by her corresponding influence over a man. That’s really not healthy (no wonder you think women tend to be nags, too). You are denying a woman personhood, when you say she can only get power by getting attention from someone else. You are also saying, indirectly, that a woman’s only access to power is through men.

    “it’s not surprising that you see courtship and seduction through the pinched prism of control and coercion and manipulation. “

    I’m just quoting you dude. You use the language of control and certainty and power, then you try to backtrack and say, “No, I just mean attract and it’s fun for everyone.” You’re not describing fun flirting, you’re claiming “it works. I have seen it.” There’s a difference and you know it. I could claim, “A miracle bra works, I have seen it…” but we both know I would only be attracting men who aren’t looking for anything more than window dressing, and can’t control themselves. And I would never be so disrespectful to men as to imply that.

    “men and women are not equal in the way that feminist like yourself want them to be.
    they are different.”

    I agree men and women are different. But I don’t think the difference is that “Women will do what I want if I talk down to them.” (Again, you SAY you have seen women react to this, I say you’re seeing what you want to see). Women have different bodies, different communication styles. If you instead said, “Women are great and I like talking to them…” that would be one thing. But you’re on here calling them stupid and saying they are only worth your time if they have a certain BMI, then claiming your narrow mind is the result of biology. Biology may make you more attracted to thinner women. But it doesn’t force you to consider all women only in terms of sexual attractiveness. Recognition of humanity is not the same thing as sexual attraction. Again, no feminist here cares who you find attractive. We just care that you treat women like people. You seem to have really misunderstood this point. (Unless you’re deliberately misstating it, in another pretense at “debate.”)

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  173. Ok, I’m signing off again. I’m guessing that the next comment is going to be just pure verbal abuse, maybe a bit of tortured pretense, again, that I said, or feminists say, something on which the record has been repeatedly corrected. Who needs it.

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  174. “dre – if the love is genuine, explain difference between a 30 year old man and a 16 year old boy having sex with a 15 year old girl without resorting to appeals to morality.”

    Uh I dont think I have to…

    The mind of a 30 year old man versus the mind of a 15 year old boy…engaging in sex with a 15 year old….hmmm

    I dont have to use morality – a 30 year old MAN engaging in sex with a 15 year old girl KNOWS BETTER but chooses to do it anyway. There is a clear imbalance in power, intellect, persuasion, experience, not to mention intimidation factor.

    A 15 year old boy is still a boy, a kid, a peer, im not saying that a 15 year old jerks don’t exist or couldnt pressure a 15 year old girl in to sex , or that they can’t commit assault because they can and have but those who do generally have some serious pschological issues or are just plain bad.

    Did I mention I am in law school ? (yeah I know in SOME eyes that makes me the “cuntiest of the cuntiest”- whatever) Why do I bring this up? The legal justice system is based on legal parsing – its not hard to come up with a rational argument that is inherently wrong but passes muster. Ok so that is morals based but its true. Pure rationalization is not and should not be the stand bearer for how humans act or should act, or should have the right to act. Logic applied to clearly illogical and non-quantifiable aspects does not produce logic but twisted justifications wrapped in the guise of logic.

    And as for genuine love – I did say it is rare – and while I do believe there MAY be exceptions, it is even RARER with that kind of age difference. We are not talking about 10 or 15 years (arbitrary range) but the starting point of each individual. There is a HUGE difference between the mind of a 15 year old girl and the mind of a 30 year old man. Exponentially (arbitrary way of saying even more MASSIVE) different then say the 25 yo female and 40 yo man, or even the 20 yo woman and the 35 y.o man.

    Just get off trying to rationalize having sex with children – it aint right any way you cut it – im not going to argue about older teenagers because of the fuzziness but people seriously have to have boundaries. Some boundaries may be fuzzier than others but WE clearly know when something is WRONG or is taboo…ok so I did use morality…sue me.

    Just step away from the kids and I’ll pipe down with my rants.

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  175. A 15 year old young woman is not a child. 15 year old women enjoy sex and can choose who to sleep with. You are insulting all 15 year old women.

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  176. You are either flame – Gannon – or your are psychologically beyond repair. Either way – I wont continue on the whole child sex thing – your last statement alone says everything and it is a waste of my time to argue with someone who is clearly OFF. Lastly, I am certain that if your current relationship were to end for any reason at any point – you would start right back up again with some new teen no matter how old you are because you are clearly not well. I only hope that one day you get whats coming to you.

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  177. Wait a weekend, come back, and it’s still as bad as I thought it was.

    H: You don’t seem fond of mockery, or as you call it, “performance art,” when practiced by someone else. It sort of turns you into a misogynistic Donald Duck, “c—, c—, c—, c—!!!!!!!” And stop trying to say feminists care about objective standards of beauty. They don’t. I’ve never been upset about it. It’s nowhere on this or any thread. You got caught on this lie in your first rant, when you misstated “The Beauty Myth,” I shouldn’t have to keep correcting you.

    DCDP: Way to wait til the smoke clears to add your two cents, and no, I’m the furthest thing from a campaign professional. Also, His points only hang together when he’s doing a red herring. He can’t argue, otherwise. His comments are all: red herring, ad hom, affirm the consequent, red herring, ad hom, ad hom, ad hom.

    Gannon: Give it up. This insistence on your “right” to date a 12-14-year-old is nothing more than a long rationalization for pedophilia. But I do think it’s interesting that you’re his biggest supporter. Way to show how much you all care about women.

    As for a point-by-point “answer” to such cleverness and “logically-together” arguments as his repeated name calling, as requested, who has the time? (And no one noticed that I called his debate skills “breathtaking” in reference to yet another c— comment of his?) But I did pick up on this:

    H: “when i bring up the fact of universal beauty standards you have an epileptic fit right on cue.”

    Total lie. Which you seem unable to quite repeating. I agreed with you that they exist. I don’t care about them beyond that.

    H: “here you again with the inane domestic abuser analogies. were you, dizzy, beaten by a past lover?”

    It’s not an analogy. I’m flat-out telling you: You reason (loose use of the term), attack and base your arguments on the assumptions used by domestic abusers. One of the best examples is when you say, “I’ll leave it up to the reader to determine the difference in treatment,” regarding why you’re nice to women who agree with you, and repeatedly refer to women who disagree with you as c—-s. It shows that you think a woman has to earn the “special” treatment of not being called a c—– You don’t have the self-control to say, “I don’t treat women poorly because I’m not that kind of person.” You act like it’s up to THEM whether or not they get called a c—-. And you, you’re just this innocent victim.

    It’s sad. I doubt you’ve ever hit a woman. But I’m pretty sure that every woman you’ve been involved with managed to “deserve” you doing something humiliating and anger-based to her. Maybe changing the answering machine message on her phone. Yelling at her in public. You know, your basic “Put you in your place” stuff (and something you’d be pretty upset about if you heard a woman doing to a man).

    H: ““should be”. you have just proven that your view of seduction is ideologically grounded in wishful thinking. you, like many women, want to believe it is a magical, unknowable process out of men’s hands, because if it were otherwise that would mean men had some POWER to control and alter the path to sex. and power is the last thing clacking, bitchy, feminist harpies like yourself want men to possess.”

    This is you playing to your base. POWER to men, right? The feminists want to take it all away, wah! The problem is, you are talking about exerting power and control over another person. You don’t have the right to do that. There’s a lot on this board about “harpies” and “nags.” Because no one likes to be controlled. And I wouldnt’ expect you to put up with a woman’s board where we talk about how to manipulate you boys into doing what we want either. (I’m picturing posts like, “Men are so emotional, it’s easy to play on their wittle feeligns to get them to take out the trash. And don’t believe them when they say they don’t want to. They don’t know what they want….) Yet you expect women to put up with your “seduction” and feel honored?

    You can keep calling it a “beautiful process.” But, well, we only have your word to rely on regarding all the “wonderful fun” the women you “pump and dump” are having.

    And you think you want to fall in love, someday? That’s great. But with what? All you’re ever going to get when you manipulate people is someone being manipulated (my first point, if you remember).

    So what’s in it for you, besides the “fun” of watching people “fall under (your) spell” (your words)? Obviously not true love, which requires equals making a choice from free will. Otherwise it’s like a man and his dog. One’s in charge, one’s there as long as she’s fed.

    But, well, you seem to be working on making some money/getting some attention from men who need to hear your “message.” I think it’s pretty clear that, and not some new world order with men keeping the upper hand through memorizing “patterns” and whatever else, is what you’re really after.

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  178. “I only hope that one day you get whats coming to you.”
    Actually, I always respect the law. And, like I said before, check out legislation of other countries. 15 years as age of consent is pretty standard, including western ones. It’s the US who thanks to feminists and and religious nuts deems sex as inherently wrong. But I know you just hate young men and probably love these cool rump riders. Study Aristoteles or even Kant. just a simple question: why should a young woman choose him http://www.comcast.net/data/news/photoshow/html/news/786508.html
    instead of a handsome 25 year old man form example. What happened about true love and choice? What happened about respecting cultural differences?
    And even in the US the issue isn’t that clean cut. I remember seeing in Big love a 16 year old girl who had a boyfriend which was ten years older.

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  179. dre – if the love is genuine, explain difference between a 30 year old man and a 16 year old boy having sex with a 15 year old girl without resorting to appeals to morality.

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  180. You know, Gannon, one reason not to get involved with very young women is that they tend not to have acquired any self-protective ability to detach from their feelings yet. (Nor do they tend to be sufficiently cautious about pregnancy prevention.) This is, I suppose, a good thing if you want the freshness of young love for yourself, but it would be very unfair to provoke such feelings in a girl in whom one was not seriously interested. If she became so unhappy after it was over that it interfered with her schooling, it would be a terrible loss for her and could indeed injure her future prospects in both work and love. That’s why I tend to support a relatively high age of consent.

    There’s also the fact that while the young are still dependent on their parents, and especially if they still live with their parents, it makes sense that the parents should have some say in their children’s decisions about sexual expression. As far as the law is concerned, I think that only fully independent young people should be free to engage in sexual relations until the age of 16 at least.

    It’s a mistake to think that it was feminists who set the age of consent laws so high in the US. Feminism doesn’t speak with a single voice on this or any other issue – but it was American feminists who first insisted, contrary to custom, on referring to every girl-child who had reached puberty as a “woman”, no matter how young she might be.

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  181. It’s a mistake to think that it was feminists who set the age of consent laws so high in the US.

    Yep. It’s the parents who got these legislations passed.

    If I had grown up with a father in the household, I probably would not have had relationships with older men at the age I did. My husband, who was 21 when he first met me when I was 15, often jokes about how he would not let any future daughter of his date until she was 24.

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  182. It’s a mistake to think that it was feminists who set the age of consent laws so high in the US. Feminism doesn’t speak with a single voice on this or any other issue – but it was American feminists who first insisted, contrary to custom, on referring to every girl-child who had reached puberty as a “woman”, no matter how young she might be.
    ????????????????????????????????????
    I’m pretty sure it were feminists who in the late 19th century started to raise the age of consent from 12 to 16, alonside with trying to ban alcohol and prostitutes (feminists are antifun).

    If I had grown up with a father in the household, I probably would not have had relationships with older men at the age I did. My husband, who was 21 when he first met me when I was 15, often jokes about how he would not let any future daughter of his date until she was 24.

    The main reason why your bond to your husband is so strong is because you met him at that age. Young women at age 15 are designed by nature to form a strong bond to a somewhat older man and start making babies. You own to your youth the strong feelings you have toward your husband.

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  183. This is, I suppose, a good thing if you want the freshness of young love for yourself, but it would be very unfair to provoke such feelings in a girl in whom one was not seriously interested.
    Sure. Men should be honorable with younger girls, and only use sluts like dre for fun.

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  184. Hope –

    Was your husband the first person you became involved with as a teen and was it continuous? Its not surprising that young girls without father figures would end up looking for a older male – the problem is sometimes they are just looking for a father figure and not a sexual partner but they confuse both – because it means love right? – because they must really care about you? um no.

    Pre-teens/teens are aware of sexual feelings but are not aware enough of what to do or what they exactly are. I was sexually aware (but not active) at a young age and it made my interactions with men incredibly awkward and fearful because I sensed, unfortunately, that often I was being viewed in a manner that was sexual as opposed to just being a kid. Even then I knew there was something unsavory about this attention that was different from boys my own age.

    I live in NYC and I cannot tell you the amount of times I have seen men old enough to know better look at a young girl in such a way that makes me want to bludgeon him. Unfortunately, girls these says are dressing sexually provocatively because thats whats in fashion(courtesy of britney spears and their enabling parents). But no matter the super tight jeans and tube tops on skinny little girls or the makeup – no amount of dress or undress, makeup or unmakeup – could ever disguise the fact these girls are children, sometimes over developed but nothing more than children.

    And Parents were the most important factor in raising the age of consent – why is it that when men have a little girl all of a sudden it becomes off limits until a certain age if ever but if no kids its free game? COMPLETE UNABASHED SELFISHNESS about satisfying your own needs at the expense of others because its your desire you need to fill and not someone else’s well being.

    Men are more than free to think with their members and nothing else as far as im concerned but definitely keep it to women who are old enough to know better.

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  185. Its also interesting to note that other reasons that some men focus almost exclusively on young girls is their own insecurity in their masculinity or ability to provide on par with a woman their own age. Instead of being mates or equals these women are sluts, toads, used up bitter shrivelled and emasculating, unfeminine, calculating. Or maybe its the fact that they can’t deal with the fact that they can’t “own” or “possess” the woman in the same way he can a child. There are no feelings of insecurity regarding better lovers, friends, providers, other passions, because the child does not know better and has not been allowed to develop independently without being the other HALF. She accepts the older man as omnipotent and of course these men enjoy this. Yet, we forget that youth itself is temporary and someone’s child will eventually be someone’s mother.

    Often times the reasons men come up with why they prefer young girls is there “freshness” (cringe), their vulnerability, (cringe), innocence (cringe) – its not just physical beauty of the young but traits attached to youth that SOME men find sexually arousing not in themselves – but in their DEBASEMENT – look at all the porn based on barely legal whatever – the porn stars who look underage…its the sexual thrill of doing something that in current society is taboo – sex with children. Forbidden fruit… right. I wouldnt be surprised for men who champion and rationalize these views to at some point start looking at their own daughters as sexual creatures. Whether or not they would actually do anything would depend on their separate view on incest. But I wouldnt be surprised if there was a correlation between incest and pedophilia, as I am sure access would be easier.

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  186. Yes Gannon, if you go back that far. But more recent feminists – starting with the ones from the 1960s generation – have taken a rather different approach to any number of issues, and have little in common with their 19th century sisters, who also did not support either contraception or abortion.

    Probably the only issue the two groups would have agreed upon is abolitionism – but that doesn’t matter because there’s no slavery any more, thanks to the original feminists.

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  187. Was your husband the first person you became involved with as a teen and was it continuous? Its not surprising that young girls without father figures would end up looking for a older male – the problem is sometimes they are just looking for a father figure and not a sexual partner but they confuse both – because it means love right? – because they must really care about you? um no.

    No. My first boyfriend was only a year older than me, and the relationship lasted for a week. My husband was not my first sexual partner, and we never actually made physical contact until a few years later. We first met online in an IRC chatroom, and he thought I was at least 19 based on the conversation, until I told him my age.

    He felt rather guilty for talking to me, and he told me that he didn’t want to be with me because he didn’t want to ruin my life or waste my youth. We still felt strongly for each other, but nothing could really be done due to the age and distance factor. He had other relationships after meeting me, and I dated guys closer to my age as well. When I finally did get together with him in college, I was more mature and more or less his equal.

    The main reason why your bond to your husband is so strong is because you met him at that age. Young women at age 15 are designed by nature to form a strong bond to a somewhat older man and start making babies. You own to your youth the strong feelings you have toward your husband.

    I think that had society allowed me to “bond” with my husband without interference, we might not actually be together right now. I was way too immature in my late teens and early 20s to have committed to him for life after the rush of falling in love had receded. The initial romantic feelings I had toward my husband went away after a few years of living with him.

    I can understand why statistically, people who marry young also have higher rates of divorce. In another time when divorce was not so easy and socially acceptable, then a younger age of marriage certainly makes more sense. Although personally I still feel like I should have been allowed to make that choice without having the man I love be persecuted. I think it should be a decision between the girl’s family, herself and the man, rather than a legal issue every time (laws don’t make exceptions for love).

    The main reason why I am still bonded with him is not because of the age of the initial contact, but because we’d been through a lot together. We stuck by each other through a lot of things that might have broken others apart. There have been times when it seemed like we might end, too. We’ve both changed and compromised a lot — he gave up drinking/smoking; I stopped being high strung and suicidal. If I had met him when I was in college and been with him for 5+ years, it would have probably been better — I know married couples that are like this.

    15 year old girls are a crazy lot. I know because I was one. I was not suitable for parenthood or marriage whatsoever, but I did obsess about love, and in a way that bordered on psychosis. I enjoyed that older men liked me, and young girls usually only like older men anyway. That love can be easily won, but it can also be easily lost. Before him, I was having conversations with college guys around 20ish in my local area. And it was only three months after I fell in love that I started developing feelings for a different guy at school. It’s a bit embarrassing, but that’s the way love goes for a schoolgirl.

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  188. I wrote, “My first boyfriend was only a year older than me, and the relationship lasted for a week.”

    My goodness, was that Freudian slip or what? It lasted for a year. A year!

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  189. Hope –

    I am actually curious about:

    “The main reason why I am still bonded with him is not because of the age of the initial contact, but because we’d been through a lot together. We stuck by each other through a lot of things that might have broken others apart. There have been times when it seemed like we might end, too. We’ve both changed and compromised a lot — he gave up drinking/smoking; I stopped being high strung and suicidal.”

    Why did you feel you stuck by each other? Love, fear, commitment, faith in making it through…I am curious about this because of the number of long term dysfunctional relationships I see (not saying yours was because I know nothing) where from an outsiders perspective these people are latching on to each other out of fear or laziness and they seem unhappy or – I dont know – resigned to the relationship but pursue outside interests (usually men) and the women stick by them and then all of a sudden they end up getting engaged, married – and the guy says its because she stuck by me all those times I dogged her …I dont know – it just seems so perverse. I often wonder at what point should someone stick around in the belief that things will get better when all common sense says get the hell out or let it go…

    Granted I dont know what the future of these relationships hold – enough time has not passed by but…Just curious what your thought is on that as someone who stayed in a relationship that went through hardtimes whether from internal or external pressures…

    Not too long ago I had a conversation with someone a few years younger than me and I was surprised to find out she was married – her response to that was well why not even though they had their issues…and I got the distinct feeling tha her feelings were based on liking and caring about him but no deeper than that. Actually more than a feeling – she pretty much admitted as much.

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  190. where from an outsiders perspective these people are latching on to each other out of fear or laziness and they seem unhappy or – I dont know – resigned to the relationship but pursue outside interests

    I have received similar comments from people — most notably men — while I was in the relationship. They said it seemed like I only stayed with him out of familiarity, fear and laziness, and one of them in particular said that the relationship seemed unhealthy, too co-dependent, and just doomed to failure. Perhaps they are right. As two people living together for almost 7 years, we did start to need each other.

    I think the key thing missing from these people’s assessment of the relationship was that it had ceased to be just a “relationship.” He and I became family somewhere along the way. Not all families are perfectly happy 100% of the time. Families often fall apart nowadays, too. Everyone knows that it’s hard to get along with family. But getting married is just another way of setting up a family, or the formal acknowledgment that two people are a family.

    Just curious what your thought is on that as someone who stayed in a relationship that went through hardtimes whether from internal or external pressures…

    People don’t usually treat their mother or father like disposable diaper once they no longer give financial support, so why would you drop your spouse like a bad habit when they stop making you as excited as before? If your brother or sister went through some financial troubles, a normal person’s first response is not to cut all ties. Maybe I was more affected by this 90’s pop song than I realized.

    I got the distinct feeling tha her feelings were based on liking and caring about him but no deeper than that. Actually more than a feeling – she pretty much admitted as much.

    Being with him feels like “coming home,” if you can grok that. A good spouse is family and friend and lover all in one. The kind of love we feel for each other has a kind of quiet but visceral intensity, and what we provide for each other we would miss only when we’ve lost it… like the way he comforts me after I have a nightmare, or the way I help him fall asleep at night. This is an incredibly deep feeling, but society has elevated the feeling of sexual lust above all else. I was blind to everything but the sexual feeling when I was younger, and I thought that only arousal mattered. It’s not that simple.

    I think this is why the fabric of modern society is often said to be more fragile now. It is torn not only at an individual level but at a cultural level. Neighbors no longer care so much for each other, nor do families, nor do friends, nor do lovers. Humans are a biologically tribal creature, but now most of us are alienated from the rest of our “tribe,” so to speak. I yearn sometimes to be close to more people, the way I was when I was little and being with my grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins. But they’re all far away now. So I cherish what I have, and even though things do get difficult, they can always be worked through if I want them to be.

    There are emotions just as powerful as romantic love that exist between people, and the Greeks knew this and distinguished them: agape, eros and philia:

    Although eros is initially felt for a person, with contemplation it becomes an appreciation of the beauty within that person, or even becomes appreciation of beauty itself. It should be noted Plato does not talk of physical attraction as a necessary part of love, hence the use of the word platonic to mean, “without physical attraction”. Plato also said Eros helps the soul recall knowledge of beauty, and contributes to an understanding of spiritual truth.

    Agape is used in ancient texts to denote feelings for a good meal, one’s children, and the feelings for a spouse. It can be described as the feeling of being content or holding one in high regard. The verb appears in the New Testament describing, amongst other things, the relationship between Jesus and the beloved disciple. In biblical literature, its meaning and usage is illustrated by self-sacrificing, giving love to all–both friend and enemy. It is used in Matthew 22:39, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” and in John 15:12, “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you,” and in 1 John 4:8, “God is love.”

    I’m not a religious sort, but after experiencing both eros and agape, I now have a much deeper understanding and appreciation of more forms of love.

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  191. Hope –

    That was a great post. I ask because I was in long term relationship which I wanted to keep but only as a platonic one but my ex did not feel the same way and I out of fear, uncertainty, but also comfort stayed until I could not silence my own internal guilt from my duplicity and desire for freedom. In the end I realized that while I was willing to ALMOST commit myself to someone who I cared for as a friend – he would not hesitate to cut me out if I did not give him the relationship he wanted. I sensed a great sense of relief and happiness when we broke up even though I panicked at the idea of separateness. I have not been in a relationship since (2 years) and I realize how hard it is to find someone to even date – and I wonder if this is why some people will latch on and not let go, even though they may want to, even though they are not really happy.

    I know too many couples where there is one person who would do anything to be with the other, but the other just sort of drifts and accepts it for lack of finding something better that he/she wants AND because they dont want to take the effort/struggle in meeting and finding someone else. So then all of a sudden they are this “model” couple except how they got there is just really distasteful to me.

    I know of another couple where they are in a open (because he wants it so and hopes to find someone and she thinks they will end up together in the end). It seems like either both parties are co-dependent – or there is one person who truly loves another person and would have them no matter what while the other person settles because of passage of time or other failed romances and because of the years of comfort developed “settles”.

    I dont think this is your example – as it seems like there were personality and growing up issues between you and your spouse as opposed to a point where you really questioned each other’s commitment to each other because of acts that said as much.

    I just find the whole process by which people decide to marry each other are interesting because people assume that if you married or are in a long term committed relationship that its based on this ideal notion of romantic love when in reality there are a lot of other reasons that could lead people to make this commitment some less noble or even romantic.

    I went off tangent or I have just been writing for a long time – either way I hope that made sense. My attention span sucks.

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  192. dre,

    gannon does come accross a bit creepy, but you’ve outed yourself as a feminist detatched from reality.

    you’ve brought up child and preteen, but all he talks about is teens and above, and you talk about being angry at men for looking at women who admit are sexed up because of their age.

    you went as far as saying that men who watch pr0n featuring young women might end up wanting to fuck their own daughters!!

    it’s pretty clear that biologically men want to fuck atractive healthy fertile women. it varies, but that starts somewhere in the teens and tends to end before 30 or 35. you are ignoring the moutain of reality and focussing on the mole hill of real perverts who want kids or might be “scared” of “real” women like you put it. men’s errection comes from what they see smell feel and hear, and it just so happens that young women posses the traits that get men horny.

    you consider your own emotional reactions and your interpretation of society over biology, and that’s a big mistake.

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  193. Thank you for your support Che Che. First of all, I think Dre is overstating things. All I said is that 14 is more realistic and just then 16 or even 18. we are talking about 2 years here. It should even be as low as 12 if the other party is also still somewhat inmature (definitively if the other party is under 18, and maybe even if he is under 21). A few reservations though:
    1) I’m talking about heterosexual sex here. Teenage boys must be protected from predatory homosexuals, so age of consent for gays should be at 18 allowing for a five years age gap.
    2) In the case of a relationship of dependency (stepfather, teacher, boss) it should be allowed to invoke abuse if it happended. Absue should not be presumed but might be proven in this particular case.

    I have a classic ethic. I simply can’t understand why Americans for example allow abortion. (killing is wrong)

    “it’s pretty clear that biologically men want to fuck atractive healthy fertile women. it varies, but that starts somewhere in the teens and tends to end before 30 or 35.”
    That’s why I can’t understand why some many 28-35 year old US women believe they are great marriage catches (for men their age that is).

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  194. 2) In the case of a relationship of dependency (stepfather, teacher, boss) it should be allowed to invoke abuse if it happended. Absue should not be presumed but might be proven in this particular case
    This applies to minors between14-17. below 14, rape or abuse is legaly presumed. At 18 or above, this would not apply.

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  195. I have a classic ethic. I simply can’t understand why Americans for example allow abortion. (killing is wrong)

    Killing itself as an act is not inherently, always, universally wrong. Ask the lion who rips apart its prey bit by bit. Ask the eagle that swoops down on a hapless rabbit. Ask the spider who traps insects in its web and eats male spiders after mating.

    In the case of abortion, it’s also not wrong in every case. A woman who has a genetic defect whose fetus in her womb will be born without a face and thusly die because it cannot breathe needs to have an abortion. A woman whose fetus began developing in her fallopian tubes needs to have an abortion.

    Laws are mere guidelines for behavior, and even morality itself can change over time. The Romans and Greeks practiced infanticide unabashedly. The Spartans in particular killed all weak or deformed newborns to ensure that only the strong used up that society’s resources.

    A black and white view of morality vis-a-vis abortion is just as militant as the feminist views about having sex with teens/pre-teens, which you lambast for being too rigid. Personally I take a more case-by-case view on everything. What are the extenuating circumstances? I don’t advocate murder, but it’s not always wrong to kill, especially if you are acting in self-defense.

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  196. Abortion is generally wrong because the natural protector (the mother) instead of protecting and nurturing her decendant is killing him/her, a completely INNOCENT being. Abortion could only be justified if the pregancy endangers the life of the mother (selfdedence). But these are rare cases. Maybe extreme illness or malformation of the fetuses also justify abortion, but inconvenience, economic need or rape does not.

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  197. Abortion is generally wrong because the natural protector (the mother) instead of protecting and nurturing her decendant is killing him/her, a completely INNOCENT being.

    Nature, god — or whatever you want to call it — is actually the largest abortionist there is. Most abortions are spontaneous, and people never know it. Of course, this is natural, so it’s not wrong in your view.

    But humanity is all about going against what’s “natural.” Humans constantly override natural urges in order to conform to societal pressures. All the ways in which humans have constructed artificial apparatuses in order to push nature back, like shelter, clothing, adornments, plastic surgery, heart surgery, contraception…

    As for innocence, I don’t really subscribe to any religious notions about it. If people routinely kill animals to eat them for convenience and comfort, then it’s not that far of a stretch to kill fetuses for convenience and comfort, since animals are also “innocent.” Animal killing for fur / leather / food / products, destruction of the rain forest, insecticides, spaying and neutering pets, etc. should all be wrong.

    At some point, the greater good might possibly deviate from black and white morality. To not to stop using condoms altogether, have every child that could possibly ever be conceived, and allow rapists to pass on their genes — would result in a disaster globally and more human suffering than already in existence. Look no farther than modern Africa for some examples.

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  198. Not to turn this into an abortion thread, but rape in my opinion most certainly justifies an abortion. And my sensibilities are pro-life in general.

    Yes, the child is innocent, but the rapist must not be rewarded with a child, which an unwilling woman will bear and an unwilling man will raise.

    In a way, I could see requiring such a fetus to live only if the raped woman’s father or husband was permitted to personally dole out to the rapist any and all punishment he chose.

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  199. Unborn babies (fetuses) are not animals, but humans (although not yet persons, you become a person (subject of rights and obligations) with birth.

    have every child that could possibly ever be conceived
    Potential and reality are different things. I’m not against contraception.

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  200. “In a way, I could see requiring such a fetus to live only if the raped woman’s father or husband was permitted to personally dole out to the rapist any and all punishment he chose”
    Punishment for crimes are defined by law.
    Rape is a serious crime, but not on the same level as murder. The child is innocent and doesn’t have to pay for the crimes of his/her father. If the mother doesn’t want the baby he can give him/her up for adoption.
    Why should a innocent baby be murdered for the crimes of somebody else?

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  201. But humanity is all about going against what’s “natural.”

    Well, we’ve turned this into a life ethics thread.

    In support of Hope’s post above, I’d cite the Terri Schiavo case: a brain-dead woman years in a vegetative state, kept “alive” with machines.

    My wife was arguing this case with someone who said “Turning off the machines is wrong; only God should be able to take a human life,” or something to that effect. My wife retorted with “God is calling her back — but the machines won’t let go.”

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  202. Unborn babies (fetuses) are not animals, but humans (although not yet persons, you become a person (subject of rights and obligations) with birth.

    have every child that could possibly ever be conceived
    Potential and reality are different things. I’m not against contraception.

    I admit, since I’m Chinese, my views on abortion, which I got from my mother, are probably even more severe than the average American woman’s. It’s a cultural issue as much as it is a moral issue. The Chinese literally see nothing wrong with abortion. Their entire population percentages are shifting to be almost a 1.3 ratio of men to women as a result of abortion.

    In Latin America and many other parts of the world, abortion is unthinkable. In China it is a routine, even a necessity due to the massive overpopulation issues. Just do a search on the images coming out of the population centers in China, and you will see why it is a cultural necessity there. With their population and modernization comes issues of intense pollution.

    In most areas of the world, abortion is frowned upon because if women are not having children, then the future of the country is endangered, as in Europe. In China, the issue is diametrically opposite: if people have too many children, then the future is jeopardized, with the possibility of hyper pollution and famines. You see why this is such a relative issue in terms of culture?

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  203. Questions for hope:
    1.Their entire population percentages are shifting to be almost a 1.3 ratio of men to women as a result of abortion
    What’s your take on this? Having tons of young men without access to sex is a huge problem. Also, US men can get women elsewhere (thanks to their high living standard and much lower overall population and women shortage). That shit will bring problems. How wll the PRC solve it’s woman shortage?
    2.Why does China opt for the one child policy intead of the 2 child policy? To maintain population you need around 2.1 children per female, so does China want to shrink it’s population while it’s rival enemy is growing? China’s population is rapidly aging by the way.
    3. Do you like Japanese, or do you also hate them like some of your countryman? I ask because you like anime.

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  204. i;ll admit I skimmed the posts so I have a gist and may miss some points but here goes and I am having computer issues at work.

    I find it amusing you consider me a feminist out of touch with reality – I see reality all around me. Seeing reality and wishing it were different does not make me out of touch with reality. Reality is most people don’t give a fuck and won’t hesitate to sell you down a river if it meant they got something they wanted. Hoping for something different no matter how unrealistic does not make me out of touch – it makes me an idealist , but not delusional. Just because I want it so does does not make it so.

    Also, of course men want sexually attractive healthy young women – and yes if biology were exclusively considered I can see why once a girl is sexually able to reprouduce she should by all means be available for the sexual market if someone so desires.

    And yes I guess I am relying on moralistic and idealisitc ideas – in the idea that perhaps men despite their desire should hold off a bit at least when it comes to the age of a very young partner.

    I just think it is so interesting and self serving how when it comes to certain desires biology should be allowed to reign free, but when it comes to something else – such as say the desire to kill someone or seriously beat them people are more will to concede to other “non-biological” reasons as to why.

    If you are to believe the idea that Certain characteristic are considered male and other female – and that the union of those represents a balanced union – a happy medium – why do so many people on this board spend so much time trying to completely push that balance completely out of wack in to the male territory? Its no different than you bashing women for their “unrealistic/idealistic – women are god’s special creature and should be catered to views….

    unfortuantely – I did not have the luxury of having a coherent, connected thought because I am about to throw my mouse at the computer but perhaps someone can make sense of that since this was typed with too many gaps in berween writing

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  205. Questions for hope:
    1.Their entire population percentages are shifting to be almost a 1.3 ratio of men to women as a result of abortion
    What’s your take on this? Having tons of young men without access to sex is a huge problem. Also, US men can get women elsewhere (thanks to their high living standard and much lower overall population and women shortage). That shit will bring problems. How wll the PRC solve it’s woman shortage?

    The woman shortage will just push more men into crime, which feeds the prison system in China that in turn performs a lot of cheap, hard labor. It also means more young men for the military, which is not a bad thing from an official perspective. Homosexuality is also on the rise in China, so the problem is not access to sex per se, but heterosexual sex. In my view the PRC likes having a surplus of men and the potential for a decreasing population.

    2.Why does China opt for the one child policy intead of the 2 child policy? To maintain population you need around 2.1 children per female, so does China want to shrink it’s population while it’s rival enemy is growing? China’s population is rapidly aging by the way.

    Yes, they want to shrink their population. They have over 1 billion people, which is more than the combined population of all of Europe. I don’t think that the Chinese officials are worried about underpopulation any time soon. They are most worried about the horrible traffic resulting from so many people in the cities owning cars, and the pollution this causes. Their cities — with buildings housing hundreds of people in the same building, trash disposal, water, electricity, etc. — must be a nightmare to manage. A lot of India’s problems with poverty stems from their overpopulation as well, and China wants to head these off before they turn catastrophic.

    3. Do you like Japanese, or do you also hate them like some of your countryman? I ask because you like anime.

    I love Japanese culture, manga, anime, etc. I don’t hate them at all. I also don’t think young Chinese hate the Japanese to nearly the extent that my grandparents’ generation does, and vice versa. A lot of those racial tensions have gone away since China opened up and is doing much more business trading with the rest of the world. Even my mother’s favorite brands are Japanese. She only buys Japanese electronics and cars.

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  206. Back to the subject at hand, grooming and good hygiene. I knew a girl in high school who had the smelly cooch problem. She also suffered from dryness and the inability to orgasm. I have no idea what her problem was or if she was able to fix it, but of course she was miserable. Dear men: if you run across a women with an odoriferous crotch, please tell her as kindly and honestly as you can. She’s probably not aware of it and I doubt her girl/women friends are either. She may be relieved to know that it’s nothing about her personally that you find intolerable. Just be honest! It may hurt in the short run, but you will be doing her a huge favor. I doubt very much it’s an incurable condition.

    As far as pubic hair goes, my first husband simply told me he preferred a trimmed bush, so I began trimming mine with small scissors and have since advanced to the “Silk Epil”. It’s a fabulous epilator and has a shaver/trimmer attachment which trims pubes and arm hair quite nicely. You might offer to trim your woman’s pubes in a nice heart shape. She’ll love the focused attention to her greatest asset. For the face I use a women’s facial hair and eyebrow trimmer. A woman can never be too well groomed.

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  207. Rape is a serious crime, but not on the same level as murder. The child is innocent and doesn’t have to pay for the crimes of his/her father.

    Why should the mother live with the legacy of this rape for the rest of her life? To deal with a child she never wanted, and wasn’t prepared to have?

    I’m obviously pro-choice, and one could even say, pro-abortion. Sometimes contraception fails, and abortion is the last ditch effort to get out of pregnancy. It’s not ideal, but I know of a few women who were glad that they had a safe & legal, option available. As I’ve said, I have no right to force a woman to raise a child she doesn’t want into a world that she feels isn’t right for her child.

    If the mother doesn’t want the baby he can give him/her up for adoption.

    Adoption is considerably more traumatizing than an abortion. Look at all those mothers who go hunting for their children years after they’re given up for adoption. As far as I’m concerned, women who give up their children for adoption should be well compensated if they choose it as an option due to the lost wages, health risks, and psychological damage caused by giving birth and giving up the child for adoption.

    In Latin America

    I’d imagine if Latin America would have more abortions, it would free up enough resources to finally push their nations into the first world. Mind you, Gannon may lose out on the large labour pool for servants and maids.

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  208. Bay the way guys, check out Roosh’s page to get an idea why Argentina/Uruguay are so great.

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  209. Is this the thread that won’t die? goddamn!

    I don’t know Gannon, you’ve got a strong track record. Why don’t we do a quick review.

    1. In your twenties and obsessed with anime – sign of a beta

    2. Post-graduate age but you can’t land a girl that is a high school graduate – sign of a beta

    3. Self-prophesed chubby chaser – sign of a beta

    4. In your twenties and think 14 year old girls and even 12 year olds are hot – sign of a beta

    5. Anti-abortion – sign of a beta

    6. Thinks knowledge of philosophy compensates for something – sign of a beta

    7. Anti-feminists – OK, so you’ve redeemed yourself here but I’m afraid that point will be taken away because I’m willing to bet cash you’ve never been with a girl that qualifies as hot so, bam!

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  210. To Che Che

    “gannon does come accross a bit creepy, but you’ve outed yourself as a feminist detatched from reality.”

    +++++++++++++++++
    -And why am I all of a sudden revealing my “feminist delusional” ideas? NUmber one how do you define a feminist? And are you so sure that the entirety of my views would even fit YOUR definition of what that is? based on a limited sampling of my views on a complex topic? Are you “MANIST” ideas any better?
    +++++++++++++++++++++

    you’ve brought up child and preteen, but all he talks about is teens and above, and you talk about being angry at men for looking at women who admit are sexed up because of their age.

    you went as far as saying that men who watch pr0n featuring young women might end up wanting to fuck their own daughters!!

    it’s pretty clear that biologically men want to fuck atractive healthy fertile women. it varies, but that starts somewhere in the teens and tends to end before 30 or 35. you are ignoring the moutain of reality and focussing on the mole hill of real perverts who want kids or might be “scared” of “real” women like you put it. men’s errection comes from what they see smell feel and hear, and it just so happens that young women posses the traits that get men horny.

    you consider your own emotional reactions and your interpretation of society over biology, and that’s a big mistake.
    ——————————————————————————

    GANNON supports lowering the age of consent to 14 that is his view. Why did he choose the age of 14? What’s the rational? Sexual maturity…ok The reality is that there are differences even within teens. Teendom can cover 12-19 by some views. Or maybe teens cover kids who become sexually mature. I havent come across any hard age as to when a child becomes a teenager so I use pre-teen/teen interchangeably and maybe I shouldnt.

    I cant say anything about 17-19 – autonomous decisions should be exercised at some point when growing up. And even if I think its distasteful for older men to be dating teens (18-19) it happens. Aberrational no – morally wrong no – questionable yes.

    What I am concerned about are men rationalizing sex beyond this under the idea that girls are sexually mature and should make their own decisions. I dont deny ANYONE’s right to be with someone sexually desirable (to a point – I think we all know what that point is) What is so difficult about understanding I am not talking about 17-19 (hazy age and boundary) but men who rationalize its OK to have sex with girls because they get their periods and look somewhat womanly? And if you were to extend the logic of girls being able to make sexual decisions as soon as they get their periods then truthfully a 10 year old is plausible because girls these days are physically maturing at younger and younger ages. I was sexually capable of reproducing at 12 years old does that mean I have the right to make sexual decisions at that age AND that a MAN has the right to sleep with me. Why are people being so dense when it comes to this.

    And the point about some men eventually turning to their daughters was confined to pedophilia and connection to incest and opportunity – not to men world wide.

    Also, as far as this case by case business – no – I do believe there should be a rigid line when it comes to consent – case by case assumes there are many valid reasons for why a 15 year old or younger can have sex with an adult male and I just think its more the exception than anything else. And as a future parent – I’ll be damned if I am going to give my 15 year old that kind of autonomy because of course “she knows” what shes doing.

    Lastly, I am not completely ruled by my emotions I do use some restraint.

    Being a women on this blog automatically tilts the scales against me – for obvious reasons – simply because of the main focus of the content and writer’s views and the supporters who read it. I will not pretend to be one of the boys in a sad attempt to be more well liked and not considered one of those “crazy” feminists.

    Although, lately I am beginning to realize that some people are born without a real moral compass or its seriously lacking….whats even crazier about this is the fact that I am an atheist. So go ahead call me a religious wacko.

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  211. CHe che –

    you’ve brought up child and preteen, but all he talks about is teens and above, and you talk about being angry at men for looking at women who admit are sexed up because of their age.

    I missed this one –

    um you used the word “woman” – when I clearly meant children – pre-teens/teens (10,11,12,13,14) girls who everybody and their mama knows are children who are unfortunately dressed inappropriately.

    Like


  212. holy shit dre you are babbling.

    you obviously are emotional about this and you don’t understand how men work, which is sad because it ain’t exactly rocket surgery.

    men wanna fuck hot young women because they are programmed to. if you had a better grasp of this you wouldn’t be so upset about it.

    Like


  213. not babbling – che che –

    frustrated yes … you know what go ahead fuck all the teens you want – you are missing the point I havent missed anything. scum of the earth indeed.

    Like


  214. What’s a “dosis”?

    Like


  215. dosis is the amount of medicine you take. Dosis are adjusted sometimes for weight. Children can sometimes take smaller dosis of adult medicine. In the cases of children adjusting for weight is not necesarily enough. Some medicines can not be taken by children. 14 year olds and above take adult dosis of medicine.

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  216. fucking hell dre, i’m not the one fucking the high school girls, gannon is.

    you are as dumb as a post.

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  217. fucking hell dre, i’m not the one fucking the high school girls, gannon is.

    Just for the legal record:
    I have never said that I was fucking High school girls. I also haven’t necesarily implied that. I was just talking in general about age of consent. I have never talked here about my personal sex life.
    I think dosis is called dosage in english and adult medicine can harm children by the way.

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  218. Er… I think he meant doses.

    When I was 14 I weighed about 98lbs and didn’t always take full adult doses of medication. (When I calculated my BMI for adults with my height it came out underweight.)

    Like


  219. Hope
    Er… I think he meant doses.

    When I was 14 I weighed about 98lbs and didn’t always take full adult doses of medication. (When I calculated my BMI for adults with my height it came out underweight.)

    But you took adult medication. Lots of adult medication isn’t safe for children.

    Like


  220. Lots of adult medication isn’t safe for children.

    They make aspirin or tylenol for both adults and children. I never took medication that was safe for adults but not for children (never took oral contraceptives).

    Like


  221. on December 5, 2007 at 2:10 am Silent Observer

    I wouldn’t mention thing that happened when you were 14, Hope. You’re gonna whip Ganon into a sexual frenzy.

    Like


  222. Bay the way guys, check out Roosh’s page to get an idea why Argentina/Uruguay are so great.

    The women in this photograph are admittedly, beautiful, but I think these women are fuckable. The Argentine girls don’t even have nails!

    BTW, you seem to paint Argentina as some place where every girl is dating some guy who is ten years older. According to Sudamerica, it’s not as common as you paint claim it is there, so one may think you’re over exagerating your claims.

    As for the early marriage factor, Argentina must suck for guys who just want to have sex and not deal with the mess of a relationship.

    So what if I like Anime? My problem. I also like Nintendo, mountainclimbing, long distance running, art, music.

    So, you’re a geek? If anything, it’s starting to prove my hypothesis that geeks date younger women to look more alphaish and compensate for their tastes in what some have considered childish levels of intensity in certain pursuits.

    I love women with BMI’s between 21-26. I like round bottoms and nice cleveages.

    I’m hoping that my weight estimates are correct, but according to the so-called weights of the porn stars that I like, we have similar tastes in body shapes. I think I’m going to puke…

    I never said that I find 12/13 year old girls attractive. However, some 12-13 year old girl do chase after 17-18-19 year old men. These guys do not deserve jailtime. 12-13 year olds are very childish, so mature guys (over 21) have definitively no business with them.

    Dude, it was a 19 year old guy who traumatized one of my friends when she was 12. She slowly found out what “love” means from an older jackass who used young naive women for sport. Those girls are way too young to be with guys that old. I don’t see what any 17-19 year old guy would see in a girl that young.

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  223. Gannon can’t say whether he has had sex with a minor or not for obvious reasons…it would be easily prosecutable by the state even if the girl didnt want to press charges especially if the statute of limitations hadnt elapsed…it wouldnt be too hard to figure out who he is if you had the tech know how.

    To everyone else who doesnt get the inappropriateness of engaging in sexual activity with young teens under 17 as an adult male – screw you. I hope you have female children and lets see where you stand on that issue.

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  224. Can we just put it out there that pedophilia is the sexual desire for persons without secondary sex characteristics?

    One can argue about the morality of sex with females under age 17 ( I personally think it’s inappropriate, even if in many states 15 or 16 is the age of consent).

    But let’s not take anything away from the horror of true pedophilia.
    ————————————————————————–
    p.s. dre: no one is forcing you to read and or post to this blog. If you don’t like it, quit whipping up the frenzy (either real or imagined) and just call it a night.

    Or could it be you enjoy lording your sense of righteousness and uncomprimising moral superiority over everyone else as much as the men here do? Interesting newsflash, you’re not a special little snowflake. You don’t have unique access to moral truth just because you think you do.

    Like


  225. To DF:
    I don’t know why you are using ad hominem attacks at me, but hey, a few things.
    Is this the thread that won’t die? goddamn!

    I don’t know Gannon, you’ve got a strong track record. Why don’t we do a quick review.

    1. In your twenties and obsessed with anime – sign of a beta
    So what if I like Anime? My problem. I also like Nintendo, mountainclimbing, long distance running, art, music.

    2. Post-graduate age but you can’t land a girl that is a high school graduate –
    In my early college years I slept with some women my age, usually 1 or two years younger. I chose to date a HS girl, it would have been easier to date a college girl, in fact HS girls are choosier than college girls. This is an alpha sign

    3. Self-prophesed chubby chaser – sign of a beta
    I don’t like them as thin. I love women with BMI’s between 21-26. I like round bottoms and nice cleveages. I don’t believe that the BMi ranking I’m giving can be considered as BBW or warhog.

    4. In your twenties and think 14 year old girls and even 12 year olds are hot – sign of a beta
    I never said that I find 12/13 year old girls attractive. However, some 12-13 year old girl do chase after 17-18-19 year old men. These guys do not deserve jailtime. 12-13 year olds are very childish, so mature guys (over 21) have definitively no business with them.

    5. Anti-abortion – sign of a beta
    More like a sign of a moral person.

    6. Thinks knowledge of philosophy compensates for something – sign of a beta
    Better than watching NFL or soccer alll day

    7. Anti-feminists – OK, so you’ve redeemed yourself here but I’m afraid that point will be taken away because I’m willing to bet cash you’ve never been with a girl that qualifies as hot so, bam!

    GANNON supports lowering the age of consent to 14 that is his view. Why did he choose the age of 14? What’s the rational? Sexual maturity…ok

    It’s standard age in a lot of great admirable countries like Canada, Germany (it’s a little bit more complex), Chile and lots of others. Also, at 14 people start HS, so they are supposed to have a minimum of maturity. Finally, women reach their adult IQ’s at around 14, stop growing in height. At 14 women have already developed breats and asses and nearly 99% are bleeding. Even physicians know this, that’s why antibaby pills are not handed out earlier than 14/15. At 14/15 people already take full dosis of medicines and not dosis of children. Adult medicine can be taken without problems.

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  226. To DA
    I always thought you were my friend!!!!!!
    By the way, try to read my comments in Roosh’s page titled
    Re school of argentinian girls (10 comments).Roosh himself confirms what I’ve been saying. (That is most argentinian girls are willing to date up to 12 years older, although average age difference is probably closer to 2-5 years older the male).
    Also, the terms jocks/geeks don’t really translate well to other countries. In the end, I get what I want, and that’s the important thing. I would probaly clasify myself as a lesser alpha or a greater beta.
    To DRE:
    stop thinking in American legal terms. A person can be a minor but be above the age of consent. Age of consent is related more to criminal age of responsibility than to age ofcivil majority.
    To DCDP: finallys someone here on this blog who thinks with logic and moderation. Congratulations.

    Like


  227. DCHP:

    p.s. dre: no one is forcing you to read and or post to this blog. If you don’t like it, quit whipping up the frenzy (either real or imagined) and just call it a night.

    Or could it be you enjoy lording your sense of righteousness and uncomprimising moral superiority over everyone else as much as the men here do? Interesting newsflash, you’re not a special little snowflake. You don’t have unique access to moral truth just because you think you do.
    ——————————————————-

    start talking morality and all of a sudden you are a zealot or think you’re morally “superior” . I have my own moral dilemmas its surprising so many dont think about theirs.

    even more surprising considering the nature of the issue – ie sex with girls. DHCP – yup your an asshole – you know shit about my overall moral spectrum/or personal beliefs save for this one. so go fuck yourself and your own self righteous objectivity.

    Like


  228. on December 5, 2007 at 2:42 pm The Real Ganon

    Hey Hope,

    You had mentioned something about being 14 — do you have, um, photos you can send?

    The Real Ganon

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  229. My fame has become so great that imitators have appeared.
    But DHCP is completely right. Dre is actively undermining the truth of real pedophiliaby comparing such acts to faux crimes like statutory rape. By the way, dre, I think you need a good fuck form a real man like me. If you ever visist Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, put up a message here. I will make you scream out of lust and wet your panties.

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  230. dre:

    It’s hard to believe you just disinterestedly “started talking about morality” and all of a sudden were labeled a zealot. I refer you to your own words:

    “To everyone else who doesnt get the inappropriateness of engaging in sexual activity with young teens under 17 as an adult male – screw you. I hope you have female children and lets see where you stand on that issue.”

    I agreed with you on the inappropriateness point as I wrote in my own post. I also purposely included the notion that the men on this board exhibit the same sense of unabashed self-righteousness when it came to morality, so I don’t know or can’t understand your contention that I don’t have my own moral quandries or the capacity to understand that there is one.

    What I DO know is that you’re so wrapped up in your own unearned and unargued sense of “objectivity” that you just told some guy on the internet who you don’t know, who agreed with you, and have never met that he should go fuck himself and that he’s an asshole.

    Enjoy fighting your culture battles whilst chained to the copier at your soul-sucking corporate law gig. I’m sure your boss is going to really be interested in your unique and special views, after which he/she will tell you to shut up and cite check until 11:00 tonight so he/she can go be rich.

    Welcome to the adulthood.

    Like


  231. on December 5, 2007 at 7:27 pm David Alexander

    To DA

    I know that concepts of geeks and nerds don’t translate well outside of North American culture, but it seems that as beta tendencies increase, increasing age tends to act as a way to “create” alphaish tendencies to compensate for being a beta.

    BTW, the 16/18 year old age of consent does interestingly coincide with the fact that in many states, minors can be charged with crimes as an adult at 16, and sometimes as young as 14. Irregardless, I really don’t feel comfortable with the idea of 20 college students and high school students having relationships. I think you severely over-estimate the “good-intentions” of many men.

    As you’re starting to point out that the average age difference between males and females is 2-5 years, which is rather common here in the States. Even in High Schools, it’s not uncommon to find a high school senior dating a freshman. The relationships usually fail miserably once the student graduates and goes to college. In terms of wide gaps, they exist, but more so with 30 and 40-somethings, not with 20 somethings.

    So do stop painting Argentina as the land where every 15 year old girl dates a 25 year old guy. 🙂

    Personally, I can’t consider the idea of dating younger, since its “cheating” and just reinforces my poor prospects. And yes, even my feminist female friends think I’m silly for adhering to such strict age segregation.

    By the way, dre, I think you need a good fuck form a real man like me.

    Dude, that was highly uncalled given that you claim to take the high road, and it’s comments like that the prevent a “friendship” between the two of us. Can we please have a discussion without dropping the c-bomb or presuming a lack of sex as a alternative to actual discussion of a topic?

    But DHCP is completely right. Dre is actively undermining the truth of real pedophiliaby comparing such acts to faux crimes like statutory rape

    The problem is that you’re making statutory rape out to be some type of victimless crime. It’s not a victimless crime, and there are plenty of unreported cases of young women who have been left scared due to the abusive nature of older men who viewed these young women as easy game.

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  232. “even more surprising considering the nature of the issue – ie sex with girls. DHCP – yup your an asshole – you know shit about my overall moral spectrum/or personal beliefs save for this one. so go fuck yourself and your own self righteous objectivity.”

    everyone on here knows everything they need to about you and your beliefs. you’re (note that you are retarded with your use of “your an asshole”) a cookie cutter boring lefty cunt. you are a law student in new york city for christ, anti pr0n (guys who watch “barely legal” shit fucking their own daughters, god you’re a dunce) emotional self important feminist. i have no idea what dizzy and H are bitching each other out about, but from what i’ve seen she’s a CUNTtender and you are the undisputed CUNTINGweight champ.

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  233. Hope #89

    Heinlein expanded on that in The Number of the Beast, with his usual omnipotent protagonist saying that she expects the men in the world to put their strongest muscles to work for her benefit, and she’d put her strongest muscle to work for theirs.

    In other words, play for pay. Is that what you aspire to?

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  234. Heinlein expanded on that in The Number of the Beast, with his usual omnipotent protagonist saying that she expects the men in the world to put their strongest muscles to work for her benefit, and she’d put her strongest muscle to work for theirs.

    It doesn’t surprise me. Heinlein liked to praise women’s childbearing prowess. It also makes completely sense from an evolutionary, sexual dimorphism perspective that the man uses his muscles to make a better place for the woman to have children.

    In other words, play for pay. Is that what you aspire to?

    Play for pay? Play should be for fun, even if you do happen to get paid. I aspire to no greatness personally, but making a family is at least one of the more meaningful things a person can do in life. Though, people aren’t really caring about it so much anymore. Children are a burden rather than a blessing in modern society.

    We sure like to talk about the processes that supposedly lead to children, though.

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  235. I’m nitpicking a bit here but you’re right only when the guy is past his college years. That’s when it gets tougher to pick up a younger girls as their shit tests become relentless and the older you get the harder it gets as the age gap increases. If a guy in his thirties regularly picks up girls as young as 18, 19 or early twenties, the social proof demonstrated is far greater than when he focuses his attention on 16 year olds. You want social proof to work in your favor, not against you, and I feel it backfires when you dip below 18.

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  236. This conversation was one that I had with a friend of a friend at, of all places, the after-service get-together after my friend’s father’s funeral.

    Lovely woman, mid-40’s, confessed to dipilating her bush at the tender age of 14, and has ever since. She now is seeing a guy who seems to have a bit too much fur on his yard, which bothers her no end when fellating. She wanted to know if I thought that her dropping a helpful hint to him would be taken the wrong way. I opined that hey, you’re BLOWING him, and a request to manscape in order to keep getting BLOWN is a reasonable one. Doesn’t need to be the full, porno stud Brazilian, just a bit of lawn care.

    So the question is asked-is genital upkeep a two-way street?

    Re: odor. When I first met my ex-wife she had the funkiest snatch that I’d ever come (pun intended) across. As soon as she started wearing cotton undies under her onmipresent pantyhose and stopped using products that were meant to FIGHT stink-hole, rug-munching was a pleasure again.

    So watch out for those pantyhose beavers!

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  237. DA:
    it seems that as beta tendencies increase, increasing age tends to act as a way to “create” alphaish tendencies to compensate for being a beta.

    da, you’re completely off the reservation on this hobbyhorse of yours. a guy who can land a girl considerably younger than himself is an alpha. period. which reminds me of a joke:

    what do women and dog shit have in common?

    the older they get the easier they are to pick up!

    it is not a beta compensatory tactic for a guy to date a younger girl. it is in fact an alpha prerogative that is NOT AVAILABLE to betas. your mistake is in forgetting that younger women are generally more attractive than older women, and older women know this which is why picking them up requires no big effort. i run very little game on women older than 28. it’s the young ones who test my skills to the limit.

    when you see a guy with an older woman usually that guy is either:

    a. a teenager or virgin looking to get his first notch.
    b. a total beta.

    hth.

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  238. By the way DF, are you a man or a woman?
    In countries were dating below 18 is legal it is considered a legitimate behaviour. There isn’t much difference between a 16 year old and an 18 year old anyway. In Argentina, Chile, Uruguay that feeling would not be true. However, 16 year old girls don’t really date guys who are above 30 in my experience. However, they do date 25 year olds.

    “the social proof is far greater”
    Some women on this board here think that mken date women for social prestige. That men date younger women because that increases their social ranking. These are only secondary reasons at best. Men date women because they are hot and lovemakeable, that’s it.

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  239. Hown does the US differ from Argentina? Small anecdote:
    In Argentina, if a 30 year old man publicly kisses his 15 year old girlfriend still clad in her highschool uniform in a public downtown city square, nothing will happen (it’s not that common, but seen from time to time). If you would do something like that in the US people would call the police or even try to hurt you.
    In Argentina, if you kiss your homosexual friend in a public downtown square, you would be called a maricón at least and maybe even beat up if any neonazi youth is close if you have bad luck. In fact, I have never seen homosexuals kissing publicly in Argentina, unless you go to relatively well hiddden gay bar. Gay bars and discos do exist, but are hidden. Seeing fags kissing and dancing together in the US was a daily sight.

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  240. on December 6, 2007 at 1:47 pm My Father's Son

    Ganon sez: “Seeing fags kissing and dancing together in the US was a daily sight.”

    Where in the holy hell could you have been in the US that this was a DAILY SIGHT? Fire Island? San Francisco? A Catholic Church?

    Like


  241. Answer: New York, Memphis,TN; Dallas, Tx; Washington DC; Baltimore (close to DC); Chicago: mind you, I’m talking about downtown, not suburbia.

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  242. I really don’t get the fuss made by men on this board over really young girls – the ones under 18, I mean. I could understand if it were a question of 18-25 year-olds, but girls of between 13-18, in my experience of myself and memory of others, are seldom what any of you would call “hot”, unless you have a peculiar definition of it. (Leaving out moral issues for the moment.)

    Even the pretty ones tend to be awkward, gangly, badly-dressed, and more likely to have skin problems. Most young women become much prettier and certainly sexier in a more obvious way, a little later in their youth than the mid-teen years. The best example of what I mean is the late Princess Diana. I happen to have thought she was beautiful as a gangly teenager, but I’m a hetero female. Most men her age and older hardly noticed her in that period of her life, according to stories I’ve seen. Unless you happen to have a taste for that awkward, coltish look – and some men do, I know – it’s unlikely any of the men here would have found her hot. It wasn’t until later, as late as her mid-20s, that she developed a way of presenting herself that made her look sexy according to conventional standards.

    And as far as I can tell, that example is fairly typical. It’s a rare beautiful woman who reaches her peak beauty in that period of her life. A woman who isn’t a great beauty to begin with is perhaps more likely to be a pretty teenager than to develop her looks later on, but I assume you’re speaking of those who are beautiful. Self-presentation counts for a great deal, even if you’re lucky enough to have natural beauty, especially because most men aren’t observant enough to “see through” the bad haircuts, clothes, makeup, and posture of first youth to see the potential beauty underneath them. And I’m not speaking of “spiritual” beauty – just the physical kind.

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  243. Look DF, my question wasn’t meant to be taken as an insult.
    I just haven’t been that long on this blog.
    Frankly, I don’t give a shit if you consider me an alpha or a beta. But frankly, when dating a girl I don’t do it for social gain or whatever. I’m not obsessed to show the wolrd how cool I am. In my experience, girls around 16-21 are the choosiest, because they are in their natural party years, experiencing sex for fun, and dating the funniest, best looking guys. At least where I live at around 22 (when finishing college) the average girl (read Roosh if you don’t believe me) if she hasn’t a steady boyfriend starts seriuosly looking for a husband and is willing to make concessions she wasn’t willing to give at 17/18. In the US were women marry 4 years later probably 22/23 year old girls don’t make these kind of concessions.
    “I would cripple you”
    Why do people love to make threads? Seriously speaking, I’ve said that I was mountainclimber, so I’m much stronger than you think.
    My dating advice on how to get that 22 year old: college libraries are actually a pretty good place to seduce off guard good looking coeds.

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  244. To Alias Clio: there is a reason why a lot of beauty peagants ban 16-17 year old women from entering. But I think you make a mistake both genders make. To project their desires onto the other gender. Most women like their men a little bit older, so it’s difficult to understand why men like them younger.
    Women seek resources, and therefore prefer somewhat older men. Men, on the other hand, seek fertility, and women’s peak fertility is around 16-25, so that’s the average age range prefered by men, varying from man to man. So some man will prefer a 17 year old, and others a 24 year old.

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  245. on December 6, 2007 at 3:17 pm My Father's Son

    I’m surprised no one has mentioned anything about “prostitots,” those elementary school girls dressed up by their moms to look like 40-year-old hookers.

    It must be hard work for the regular old softball playing 8-year-old girl to have to come up against the classmates who have stilettos, belly shirts and power names like “Jonbenet.”

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  246. I don’t know, Gannon. I was trying to imagine this issue from a male point of view, and I brought up a specific example to make my point.

    Tell me, which pictures of the late Princess of Wales do you find more sexually attractive? The ones that show her in her fluffy Laura Ashley dresses (“terrifying Laura Ashley maternity smocks” as one wag observed then), or the overalls that made her look like a boy, her pretty but slightly plump face disguised by heavy bangs and a very blank and dreamy expression? Or her later, sleeker self-presentation?

    There are certainly some men who would prefer the former vision – but they tend to be the type who dislike “sexiness” altogether, or who have redefined it as pure semi-androgynous innocence. I suspect most men do prefer her later incarnations.

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  247. To be honest, I’m not really that attracted to Diana. But it depends on the woman. Some women look better at 16, and some look better at 22. It depends. A woman’s beauty peaks between 15-25, and the exact point is a matter of personal choice.

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  248. Well, Diana is an example I chose because she was the rare public figure whose teenage appearance is as well-known to the public as her later and more glamorous incarnations. But if you could take a look at the teenage photos of almost any North American or English actress/model famous for her beauty as a young adult of 24 or so, you’d almost certainly find a similar arc of development in her looks, from awkwardness to polish. Teenage poise is really much more a Latin than a North American cultural tendency.

    Really, what I’m trying to say here is that many men’s taste in female beauty is more shaped by fashion conventions than they know, and many simply do not perceive even quite obvious physical beauty unless it is presented in a conventional form. As teenage girls seldom know how to present themselves in this way, and make many mistakes in learning, their beauty is often all but invisible. The exceptions tend to be the rich girls who are rigidly forbidden by parents and private schools to spoil their looks with makeup or do strange things to their hair, or wear revealing clothes. On the other hand, it didn’t quite work that way for Diana.

    On the other hand, there are grown men who like the gawky and unpolished look, and they’re the ones who may truly have pedophile tendencies.

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  249. on December 6, 2007 at 7:01 pm David Alexander

    da, you’re completely off the reservation on this hobbyhorse of yours. a guy who can land a girl considerably younger than himself is an alpha. period. which reminds me of a joke

    I think I’m conflating the friendly interest to prevent bordeom at work by some white single mothers, skanky suburban girls, and black women who are younger than me as romantic interest.

    As DF said, I think, there’s a difference between a younger 8 and a younger 4. The younger 8 would think the beta is a loser, but for the 4, the older beta is the best she can do.

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  250. on December 6, 2007 at 7:33 pm David Alexander

    Interestingly, Latina women in the US seem to age rapidly when compared to other races, and I wonder if this is true in Argentina. The downside of aging so rapidly is the fact that some Latinas tend to look much older when they’re in their 30s and 40s. In contrast, many black girls rather childish into their twenties, but look younger than their white counterparts in their 50s.

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  251. I think dat older men are kewl. Y’all r dumb. Leave mah boy alone. He da bomb-biggity!

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  252. on December 6, 2007 at 8:18 pm David Alexander

    Where in the holy hell could you have been in the US that this was a DAILY SIGHT? Fire Island? San Francisco? A Catholic Church?

    I live on Long Island, so I visit Manhattan frequently, and I can count on one hand how many gay men that I’ve seen kissing. Even when I visited Cherry Grove on Fire Island, I saw guys holding hands, but nearly no kissing.

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  253. To 254: you suck at sarcasm. It seems you have a redneck fetish.
    To my friend DA:
    “As DF said, I think, there’s a difference between a younger 8 and a younger 4. The younger 8 would think the beta is a loser, but for the 4, the older beta is the best she can do.”
    That’s a feminist lie. Period. Younger women are more coveted than older women, so dating a significantly younger woman is a sign of success. The guru nailed it. By the way, I would consider my gf a 7-8.
    “Interestingly, Latina women in the US seem to age rapidly when compared to other races, and I wonder if this is true in Argentina. The downside of aging so rapidly is the fact that some Latinas tend to look much older when they’re in their 30s and 40s.”
    That ‘s because
    1) they tend to be lower class.
    Lower class people age much worse than higher class people all over the world
    2) they have more children: childbirth takes a toll on women.
    Sorry DA, but I honestly think that black women age the worst off all races. Black girls hit menarchy earlier than white women. Have bigger breast and asses at a younger age. Get fatter than white women. Die earlier than white women. If you compare young black and white women, specially when in their teens, the average black girls will look older. Asians age the best probably. In fact, because Argentinian women are thinner they look younger than their US white woman counterparts.
    The biggest factor on aging however as I said isn’t race but social class.
    By the way, small, thin man like you rather tend to age well.

    “Really, what I’m trying to say here is that many men’s taste in female beauty is more shaped by fashion conventions than they know, and many simply do not perceive even quite obvious physical beauty unless it is presented in a conventional form. As teenage girls seldom know how to present themselves in this way, and make many mistakes in learning, their beauty is often all but invisible. The exceptions tend to be the rich girls who are rigidly forbidden by parents and private schools to spoil their looks with makeup or do strange things to their hair, or wear revealing clothes. On the other hand, it didn’t quite work that way for Diana. ”

    Agreed on that. To much US girls ruin their looks by becoming grundge, punk, gothic or whatever. Luckily, usually only the ugly ones follow these fashions. But you know, some women are early bloomers and some women are late bloomers.

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  254. You’re late for dinner again. Please come home at once. Your biscuits and gravy are hot and ready.

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  255. To 257: like I said , your mockery is boring. You are a coward. If you disagree with any of my posts, you are free to respond.

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  256. “I want to talk to you about going out to play with some kid named Ganon.”
    Completely wrong. Gannon always respects the law. Gannon strongly advises anyone to respect the law. Gannon advocates for a reform of the law. However, Gannon lives in a diferent kingdom with diferent laws, and is pissed that the neighboring kingdom tries to impose it’s feminist anti men hate laws onto other kingdoms.

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  257. Gannon, are you too stupid to figure out whether I’m a guy because you haven’t been able to look past this one issue and see any previous comments I’ve ever made on this site, and I’ve been a visitor here from the get-go then consider yourself lucky you don’t live in the states. I would cripple you. You’ve got tunnel vision kid and you’ve got the stench of beta all over you.

    I’m sure you’ve latched on to this comment to make you feel good about yourself:

    “a guy who can land a girl considerably younger than himself is an alpha. period”

    …but it’s not that simple kid, and he knows better. What’s the quality of that younger girl? Can you consistently land that quality? Do you have options in that range of quality (seeing more than one girl)? And of course, is she younger relative to you?

    I don’t dig on 16 year olds, we don’t see eye to eye on that. They are coquetish no doubt, but they are still awkward and remarkeably immature, add several years and they change a girl a lot. Compare the shit tests of a 19 or 20 year old to that of a 16 y.o. and you’ll see what I mean. Those are 3 to 4 years that build a girls confidence from having been hit on by all kinds of men of all ages and the barriers get tougher as she goes into her mid twenties. A 16 y.o. only has her school and peers and is easy to impress once you’ve penetrated that microcosm. A 22 or 23 y.o. college grad who grew up attractive, is a much tougher target, by light years.

    If you don’t know what social proof is, I won’t explain it but because you don’t know – sign of a beta

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  258. on December 6, 2007 at 10:08 pm David Alexander

    That’s a feminist lie. Period. Younger women are more coveted than older women, so dating a significantly younger woman is a sign of success. The guru nailed it. By the way, I would consider my gf a 7-8.

    I think you may have missed my point. A hypothetical beta if given the choice between a 4 who’s 5 years younger, and a 4 who’s the same age, would give more consideration to the younger one. The 8 who is five years younger does not want an older beta, but an older alpha who meets her rank, but a beta female would find the older beta to be suitable for her needs, and almost desirable when compared to the beta males of her age group.

    As for Latinas in the States, I’ve noticed similar traits with those who lived relatively middle class lifestyles as well. At my church, the white women age terribly, the Latinas age early, but stay relatively youthful, and the middle class blacks and Asians age relatively well. As you said, class and lifestyle plays a heavy role in aging, and my observations will vary, especially since you stated you spent time in Mississippi, which is down right poor…

    IIRC, my mom mentioned that she and her sisters hit puberty around 16-17. Mind you, they grew up in Haiti, and not the US. OTOH, early menopause is commonplace in our family. Ealy menarche is a trait of single parenthood, so I’d suspect that would occur more with black (and Latino) families in the States, especially now.

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  259. 16-17??????
    This is intended as a serious questions. They only could hit puberty that late if they were starving for a lot of years. Sorry, someone is not telling the whole truth. Menarchy average used to be at around 12. Now its at 11.5 thanks to better nutrition. Some girls get their menarchy as early as 8, some as late as 14. Sorry, I just don’t buy it. In fact, black women tend to get their menarchy earlier than white women and asian women later than white women. Blacks die a lot earlier too, which suggests that they age worse. Of course, class and lifestyle is everything. And hardwork isn’t that healthy, hardworking peasants die earlier than their sedentary citycounterparts.

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  260. especially since you stated you spent time in Mississippi, which is down right poor…
    Mississippi, what a shithole…
    No. most of the time I spent in Atlanta (FEDEX) and Memphis, the new south… There I befriended a nice black nerd, you remind me of him a lot. This guy worked privately as a mover (moving furniture form one house to another) with a white friend of his and made surprisingly good money. The US is a paradise for blue collar workers.

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  261. This is intended as a serious questions. They only could hit puberty that late if they were starving for a lot of years. Sorry, someone is not telling the whole truth. Menarchy average used to be at around 12. Now its at 11.5 thanks to better nutrition.

    Maybe I head incorrectly, but my mom didn’t starve. She (and her sisters) went to private schools and had maids in Haiti, and she certainly didn’t starve in the US. I suspect it’s a nutrition issue since first world foods that are fortified with nutrients weren’t commonplace in 1950-60s Haiti.

    I’ll ask my grandmother if she remembers anything next time I meet her if she remembers anything about this.

    Blacks die a lot earlier too, which suggests that they age worse. Of course, class and lifestyle is everything. And hardwork isn’t that healthy, hardworking peasants die earlier than their sedentary citycounterparts.

    I suspect that the low life expectancy is due to poor diet and health. Diabetes, heart disease, substance abuse, and obesity or a lack of good food do not help in life expectancies.

    Anecdote Zone: My grandfather died at the age of 92, another at 70. One grandmother is 78, another is 88.

    in my observation the pace of aging goes like this

    As I’ve said, Latinas age earlier, but white women age poorly. Middle class and thin black women can stay relatively youthful, and middle class Asian women barely age at all.

    No. most of the time I spent in Atlanta (FEDEX) and Memphis, the new south… There I befriended a nice black nerd, you remind me of him a lot. This guy worked privately as a mover (moving furniture form one house to another) with a white friend of his and made surprisingly good money. The US is a paradise for blue collar workers.

    If he’s a nerd, then he’s underemployed. Otherwise, he probably gives off the impression of being nerd.

    The South and the West tend to be paradises for blue collar workers since housing and taxes are very low, nor is there an elitist mind-set amongst the locals. In contrast, in the Northeast, taxes are high, housing is expensive, and blue collar wages buy considerably less than they would down south. A $250K house in Atlanta may sell for $750K in New York. no
    Plus, in the Northeast, there’s a very elist undercurrent that’s very anti-bluecollar. In effect, around here, if you’re blue collar, you’re a “nigger” who does lowly work because they’re too “lazy” to go to college and get a real job.

    Interestingly, many blacks are leaving New York and are considering moving back to the South for the ample employment opportunities and cheap housing. I think I’m the only black person who has not considered and refuses to move to Atlanta, Florida, Texas, the Carolinas, or Virginia.

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  262. Actually, in my own grandmother’s generation (she was born in 1899), menarche was more likely to occur around age 16 or thereabouts. One of the factors which staves it off, you know, is exercise: it tends to happen later to female athletes. Girls who did a great deal of walking, and didn’t eat much fat or sugar, might have experienced later menarche even without starving or the heavy exercise routine of athletes. Also, of course, the hormones present in meat and milk today weren’t there 70 or 100 years ago. Who knows what effect those may have?

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  263. on December 7, 2007 at 12:50 am Gladys Knight and the Pips

    “Interestingly, many blacks are leaving New York and are considering moving back to the South for the ample employment opportunities and cheap housing.”

    When they do that, they take the proverbial “Midnight Train to Georgia” y’all!

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  264. Actually, in my own grandmother’s generation (she was born in 1899), menarche was more likely to occur around age 16 or thereabouts.
    Sorry, I’m skeptical. But I promise I’ll investigate it.
    Minimum age of consumation of marriage in roman times and the middleages used to be 12, because that’s was the average age for a girls menstruation. It’s well known that thin girls and undernourished girls sometimes have their first menarchy at 14. In fact, all historical documents establish a woman¡s menatch at around 11-13 (roman documents, Torah, Koran, bible)
    And found: that 16-17 year old girl first menarche study for northern women is feminist bullshit and was probably used to raise ages of consent:

    “But, he continued, the Tanner data do not support the conclusion that the average age of menarche was 17 in the 19th century. He said that Mr. Tanner’s only source was based on a small, isolated sample in Norway in 1844 that might not be representative. Dr. Bullough said that Mr. Tanner had stated in another report that menarche occurred at 15 in Norway in the 19th century.

    He said that many historical documents had set the age of maturity for girls as low as 12 to 14 in the Middle Ages, and that a home medical manual widely sold in the United States in the late 1800’s gave the same age.”

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  265. According to historians I’ve read, it was not uncommon for girls in ancient Rome to be married and pregnant before menarche. Ovulation can happen before bleeding begins.

    I cannot be certain of the source at the moment, but I believe it was likely the respected historian of late antiquity, Peter Brown.

    I mentioned my grandmother because I happened to know, from her own lips, that menarche happened at sixteen for her, and she did not appear to believe that that was an unusually young age when she told me.

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  266. Son, can you please call home?

    I want to talk to you about going out to play with some kid named Ganon. I don’t want you hanging out with him.

    I mean, David Alexander was a bad enough influence, but this Ganon character will land you in the pokey on a jailbait charge. I don’t want our family to go through the legal hell that Hope’s boyfriend’s family went through.

    Oh, and someone named Dizzy called. She wants to take you to the dance and asked if you wanted HER to buy YOu a corsage. I didn’t know what to tell her.

    By the way, who is someone named Lisa? She left a message on the machine about “things you can eat to taste better.” This shocked your Auntie grace who was visiting. This is weird, son. Please call home at once!!

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  267. Er, that should be “unusually late age” in post #269.

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  268. Now its at 11.5 thanks to better nutrition. Some girls get their menarchy as early as 8, some as late as 14. Sorry, I just don’t buy it. In fact, black women tend to get their menarchy earlier than white women and asian women later than white women. Blacks die a lot earlier too, which suggests that they age worse.

    More factors affect age of menarche than merely nutrition. Stress plays a role; among women who have an early menarche, the study found that 57% had divorced parents. Other studies link absence of father figure to earlier menarche.

    Modern developed nations are more prone to divorce, cultural indicators of sexual promiscuity, and more stress on young people. The situation of fatherless families is especially common in the American black community. These factors may well lead to an earlier age in menarche that have little to do with healthier diets.

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  269. in my observation the pace of aging goes like this:

    fastest – white women
    fast – latinas
    moderate (as long as they don’t bloat up like blimps) – black women
    slow – asian women

    the bloom on white women truly is a short-lived thing of beauty.

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  270. Somebody: Snag Gannon’s IP address and notify 20/20, or Perverted Justice.

    You know, Gannon, both mothers and fathers might feel as though you should be minus a body part if found with our children. CHILDREN – 14 is a child.

    Forget it, I’ll notify the FBI myself.

    And to the others on this site who think a 14 year old is ‘game’ for older adults, listen carefully – MANY men do not think 14 year olds are anything other than children and tese men behave accordingly. MANY men. This site draws only one type of man – hardly representative of the whole gender – Thank GOD – I also have a son, father, brother who don’t think anything like the men on this site.

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  271. To Jane:
    Have you ever been in Canada, Spain or Argentina?
    Laws change form country to country. Second, I was having here a political debate. Laws can be debated and reformed if deemed necesarry. Third, of what crime are you accusing me?
    As I have said hundred of times, I don’t live in the US, so the FBI has no jurisdiction anyway, and debating isn’t ilegal you know. And in my opinion 14 year old females are women, because they can get pregnant and have healthy babies. You on the other hand are just a menopausic women frustrated by the fact you can’t have babies and probably you also have zero sexual value and are an ugly fat swine.
    Greetings
    Gannon

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  272. on December 9, 2007 at 3:56 am Weatherman Says

    Ganon is right — and anyway you can’t arrest somebody for freedom of speech/ He’s talking about this, remember.

    Americans always want to crack down on everything, be it drinking, teen sex, etc. And it turns out Americans have the highest rates of teen pregnancy and alcoholism in the world. The system doesn’t work — look to Europe for a better one.

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  273. Weather: you’re on shaky ground, agreeing with a pedophile.

    Gannon: Your upset would be amusing if you weren’t a danger to children everywhere. You KNOW how wrong your thoughts are, and that is precisely why you are so upset that someone has spoiled the affirmation you continually seek on this site.

    To those of you who continue to affirm his dangerous bent with your silence: your welcome. Now you can go back to ignoring him while he interprets the silence as agreement.

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  274. To Jane:
    Your ignorance of the things is amazing. Men who are attracted to teen girls are not pedophiles: consult medical book you wish: medically the line is drawn at 12 or 13, depending on the author. Even the law distinguishes: the punishment for true pedophiles and statutory rape is different. Statutory rape is a hate crime against young men and must be abolished.

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  275. on December 9, 2007 at 11:27 pm Weatherman Says

    Jane,

    A pedophile is someone who has or seeks sex with a child who has no secondary sex characteristics. Ganon does not fit that description. He favors women who are post-puberty but young — women who were considered legal before statuatory rape laws got out of control in the 1970s.

    We now have a society so steeped in feminism that when Monica Lewinsky had an affair with the president, she was referred to as a “23 year old child.”‘

    So, Jane. if you want women to be characterized as children up to their twenties, fine. just don’t turn around and tell me these women are “adults” and should be in the workplace. You can’t have it both ways.

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  276. “He favors women who are post-puberty but young”
    For the record: I don’t really favour women that young. My favourite age for women is probably around 16-22. I have had serious 20 and 22 year old girlfriends. My current gf is 17. However, I personnaly believe that women at around 14 can consent, specially to young men below 30. It’s an issue of justice for me. And thank you for your support weatherman: statutory rape laws are hate laws supported by feminists but also by most (religious) conservatives, people who really should know better. And the bible states as marriageable age for women 13, so these christians are somewhat hypocritical.

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  277. In point of fact, Monica L. was a “23-year-old child”, as far as maturity is concerned. That doesn’t mean Clinton was a pedophile for getting involved with her, though. He was merely a man who lacked self-control, decency, and common sense. He ought to have known he was setting himself up for emotional and actual blackmail – which is exactly what happened.

    Most people misunderstood the Lewinsky situation. Strictly speaking, she wasn’t a victim of sexual harassment. She was a beneficiary of sexual favoritism, which is every bit as damaging to the “social fabric”.

    A pedophile is a man or woman who finds pre-pubescent children attractive. Gannon does not indicate that he is among this group. I still happen to think it’s wrong for grown men (that is, those over 21) to get involved with younger adolescents, but it’s not necessarily criminal, nor a mark of pedophilia, depending on the circumstances.

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  278. I’ve noticed in the 3 girls I dropped after SPS (sour pussy syndrome) manifested (HB 8, HB8.5, and HB8 respectively)…

    2 out of 3 of them have gone from mild cynic to uber obama loving feminst “dont take my vagina away” bitchier versions of their former selves, posting shit on dreww petersen and any other feminst topic du jour.

    I think it is a safe bet that these girls have a serious genetic problem and dont realize it – they then after getting P&Dd for the umpteenth time decide to channel their woman power and become feminist or something close to it.

    I just share this in response to poster about feminst’s having stinkier #1 assets then the avg girl… I think that this dynamic could drive most SPS into feminazi camps, therefore boositng liklihood that if you swoop a feminst, you better not smell what she’s cooking. Add a laxer attitude about hygiene and I bet you can guarantee a smelly ass et experience if you dabble with the hillary loving crowds.

    For completeness of post…#3 is still a sweet awesome HB8, and I dont think its as much hygiene as ethnicity differences (persian). She was tough drop.

    I swear there is something to this genetic coding and matching, there are some hotties that I just want to walk away from after the first kiss. I will usually soldier on if tolerable tho – to represent!

    SPS is a heartbreaker, no doubt about it…

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  279. also, if you breed with the feminstas, you deserve all the shit you get in the future for propogating their emasculating culture of hate.

    Dont let her get your alpha bits soup!
    (I should trademark that line, eh?)

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  280. JANE!
    …get your fat ugly anti-first amendmant ass out of this blog.Threatening judicial bullying and abridgement of rights isnt what america or the internet is about – it is what obama and you lefty commie liberal dirtbags are about though.

    I dont even know what was said to set you off, but it doesnt matter. krystallnacht isnt here in the US (yet) notwithstanding the threats from the left for the “fairness doctrine” and related crap that is worthy of a revolution. So stop your blog bullying and stfu.

    Just leave the blog you idiot, Jane. Go find a nice omega who doesnt smell your #1 asset to propagate your trailer occupant gennetic carriers. Obama will take care of them for you and feed you your pretty lies… for a while..

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