Ugly Is Not The New Beautiful

In an effort to be edgy, capture niche advertising markets, and generate buzz, there is a modeling agency in New York that claims to only scout for “ugly” models:

Too ‘ugly’ to model?

Not according to one talent agency in New York City. “Ugly,” founded in 1969, looks for unique models who are not considered traditionally beautiful. According to agency founder Simon Rogers, “beauty really does come in all shapes and sizes,” and in the modeling industry, there’s room for all.

Unique.

All shapes and sizes.

Room for all.

Let’s take a look at what the modeling agency considers ugly.

Here is one of their ugly female models:

i've seen ugly. this isn't it.

i lie to boys.

The only thing ugly about her is the tattoo. She may not be a 10 but she’s pretty hot. Her underlying facial bone structure and features are that of a good-looking girl, and most guys would agree. The rest of the “ugly” female models at this agency follow the same pattern — attractive to beautiful faces that can be marketed as diverse and “unique” because of superficial non-genetic attributes like ugly tattoos, unusual make-up, weird clothing, or multicolored hair.

Other than the few freak show midgets the agency includes in its lineup (obviously for specialty assignments that specifically require the services of a midget), the general trend is the same as it is at every modeling agency — girls that have been blessed by birth to look better than 90% of women.

So, no, beauty does not come in all shapes and sizes, nor is there room for every girl to be a model, as this modeling agency’s founder fraudulently claims. Lip piercings and tattoos don’t turn a beautiful girl into an ugly girl, just like they don’t help ugly girls become less ugly.

Here is a picture of an actual ugly woman:

no wonder she hates men.

no wonder she hates men.

You will never see women who look like this in an “edgy” modeling agency’s portfolio. At least, not for long. Heh.

Now let’s take a look at the men in this agency’s ugly portfolio.

Here is one of their ugly male models:

getting closer.

i'm wearing a buttplug!

Now we’re getting somewhere. This guy isn’t repulsively ugly, but he’s not beefcake either. Take some time to browse through the photographs and you’ll notice a distinctly different pattern emerge with the male models. Most of the men fall into two categories — either good-looking guys who “uglify” themselves with bad tattoos and piercings (like the women models), or genuinely ugly guys. But the ugly men are ugly in a goofy way, instead of an actively obnoxious way.

Unalterable Universal Law: Ugly men can push product (and sitcoms). Ugly women can’t.*

Yet again, this shows that the penalty for physical ugliness is more severe for women than for men. People make fun of ugly men, but they simply don’t want their visual field polluted by ugly women. Not even at modeling agencies that claim to scout for beauty in “all shapes and sizes”.

Level of bullshit exposed on a scale of 1 to 10: 7 (a septic tank’s worth).

*Ugly Betty is the only current exception to this rule I can think of, but even in this case the show’s title doesn’t live down to its standard, for three reasons:
1. Betty isn’t *that* ugly. She’s a little under average for an American girl.
2. There are lots of other hot women in the show to neutralize Betty’s “ugliness”.
3. Betty’s love interests are borderline platonic. Kissing scenes with Betty kept to a bare minimum.
4. Ratings are slowly falling. Even good writing can’t save a show with an unattractive lead.





Comments


  1. on August 14, 2008 at 4:29 pm frederick lenore gustafson IV

    Betty from “Ugly Betty” really isnt that ugly…in real life. The actress who plays her is hot!! they just make her at least “homely” for the show. (the mismatched togs they have her wear on the show are NOT sexy)

    Like


  2. Way to include a dead woman. I can’t believe she was a prostitute.

    And yes, if that’s an ugly model, that agency is bullshit.

    Like


  3. Oh, it’s Andea Dworkin, not Howard Stern’s younger brother.

    Like


  4. Typical movie/TV “ugly” – a hot girl with oversized glasses and hair pulled tightly into a ponytail.

    Like


  5. Why don’t they just rename themselves the “hipster” modeling agency ’cause that’s what it really is anyway.

    Like


  6. It’s like when they take the glasses off a nerd in a teen movie, and suddenly, she is hot.

    I always wonder about “ugly” or out of mainstream casting, especially when it comes to children in movies. There is always a really fat, red cheeked loser in every comedy involving kids. Can you imagine the psychological mind fuck those kids must go through? And what the hell is wrong with parents who sign their kids up for this? I really hope if I have a troll for a kid, I a. am blinded by my maternal love and cannot see what a beast my child is; and/or b. would never try capitalize on my freak baby by peddling out his ugliness for cash.

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  7. on August 14, 2008 at 4:56 pm Sara loves the internet

    The ugliest thing about ‘i lie to boys’ is the expression on her face. Other than that she has beautiful hair and skin and that beguiling beauty mark, but inside she looks hard and ugly and as roissy pointed out, the tatoo is a huge red flag. Sounds like there are enough hard ass women out there now to warrant a whole new marketing demographic.

    Like


  8. The prettiest girl in the bunch is the one you posted in your article.

    I wouldn’t qualify half of the girls in that slide show as better looking than 90% of women. 8, 23, and 25 were all either fat, old, or facially ugly; or some combination of the three. However, I didn’t find any of the men to be attractive.

    Your sample ugly woman is obese and her face is contorted into a stupid expression. I don’t think that her underlying facial bone structure is so bad.

    Like


  9. University of Toronto philosophy professor Mark Kingwell has a great essay on tatoos etc. in his book Dreams of Millenium. Great quote: “Never underestimate the erotic charge of a piece of barbaric jewellry stuck into a beautiful girl.” Suicide Girls has been mining this territory for a while now.

    Like


  10. On the other hand there really are some not so great models out there, who were chosen for their unique look, not necessarily their hotness. Have a look here at some of them with and without makeup:
    http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/f47/francois-nars-make-up-your-mind-647.html

    Like


  11. Why don’t they just rename themselves the “hipster” modeling agency ’cause that’s what it really is anyway.

    This is really just next season’s cast of “Ace of Cakes”.

    Like


  12. The fact that Ugly (the agency) has been around for almost 40 years indicates that the attempted beautification of ugly (the appearance) is not a new concept. It also may be worth noting that it doesn’t appear that many other model agencies have tried to get into the same market.

    Like


  13. Steve Sailer has a great little post where he puts out his theory of the beautiful:
    http://isteve.blogspot.com/2005/04/theory-of-beauty.html

    Great quote:
    “There’s no question that [Tilda] Swinton, even in her mid-40s, is beautiful in the objective sense . . . , but the reason she’s not a big star is because her beauty is more androgynous than feminine, which is why she gets roles as angels rather than as romantic leading ladies. She looks a lot like Cate Blanchett (who won the Oscar playing Kate Hepburn), but Swinton makes Blanchett look like Sophia Loren in the ripe womanhood department.”

    Like


  14. tattoos are so fucking stupid sometimes…

    Like


  15. Praise God that this agency exists and not what could have existed: a modeling agency that put out truly ugly people, offending the senses. That’s important anytime we expose benign hypocrisy — there are plenty of wackos who think you’re saying, “This isn’t fair — we demand an agency that features truly ugly models, not fake ugly models!”

    Just checked Hot Topic’s website for the adolescent version. Same thing, all pretty, some with bad multicolor hair. Not this one, though. Mmmmm.

    http://www.hottopic.com/hottopic/store/product.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302028385&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442183094&bmUID=1218734246978

    Like


  16. this is another example of how the fashion industry is one big joke. i once saw this magazine article about how the ideal body type for women models has undergone all these changes over the years: first it was ridiculously skinny women with big boobs, then ridiculously skinny women with no boobs, then, lo and behold, ridiculously skinny women with giant boobs.

    women, and now increasingly men, need to wake up and stop taking their cues from a bunch of ridiculously narcissistic women and gay men who don’t so much want an actual female body as a walking clothes hanger.

    Like


  17. another downfall of their gender….overweight, inarticulate men can be successful…..very rare is the woman who can do this and still pull the kind of action their male counterpart could.
    i’ve always marvelled @ the point Lance made….most fashion designers are gay….what do they know about what a heterosexual man wants in a woman?

    Like


  18. According to agency founder Simon Rogers, “beauty really does come in all shapes and sizes.”

    Jesus, I can’t imagine anyone saying this with a straight face. We live in an Age of Lies.

    Like


  19. on August 14, 2008 at 6:20 pm random passerby

    You linked to one of your older posts (Same Three Girls) where you said this:

    “You don’t need scientific studies to prove what common sense already tells you — that beauty is not subjective if men all agree on which girls are beautiful.”

    I don’t know if you’re ever participated in forum threads where people post pictures of women they find attractive, but there isn’t any absolute consensus there. Sure, some of the same generic celebrities keep popping up, but there’s a lot of variety. Personally, I overwhelmingly prefer Asians and find the selections of other people mostly boring (I’m so sick of Jessica Alba).

    You also asserted that culture, the media and Hollywood have no bearing on who men find attractive. As I said before, the same celebrities keep popping up in those forum threads over and over again. If you go to Korea or Japan you’ll be sure to find a different set of celebrities that everyone likes. Beauty standards have also varied in different times and places. In China they used to practise foot binding, and Japanese women once dyed their teeth black. Even the beauty standards of Hollywood were quite different half a century ago. Hard-wired preferences exist, but they’re not mutually exclusive with those shaped by society.

    But yes, the notion that beauty comes in all shapes and sizes is still bullshit if it’s meant to imply that everyone is equally beautiful.

    Like


  20. The men are clearly “character” models, like character actors, chosen for their ability to fulfill visual expectations of certain types of people, often ethnic.

    The women are almost always attractive. I noticed two unattractive older women in the A-B section (Andi and Bari…what’s with “i”s?). But the women were generally attractive in a way that was human, approachable (not friendly, just approachable in the sense of not being evidence of alien parentage), not so beautiful as to be threatening.

    Which is pretty much how I would describe female character actors in the US: they’re never really ugly, but they’re not so beautiful as to seem inhuman; and they have some kind of character to their faces that lets them fulfill visual expectations in the audience…they look like what the role they’re playing should look like…even as in the case of the tatooed gal Sara #7 called hard and ugly inside. She looks like the part. So do Andi and Bari…like grandmas on a sitcom.

    Ugly is just an agency that sells character models. That’s why it’s been around for 40 yrs. There’s always a need for that kind of model…think cast of characters in a street scene photo shoot, for example. Where are you going to get a plausible bunch for the role of the gawkers/passersby/crowd? Call Ugly!

    Their talent roster says nothing about ideals of beauty or ugliness. Nothing at all. The only revealing thing is that they call themselves “Ugly” and not, say, “Characters”.

    Like


  21. on August 14, 2008 at 6:41 pm Usually Lurking

    As far as I can tell, the Fashion Industry (and, to a lesser extent, Hollywood) has a major bought of schizophrenia. Since they are so concerned and interested in being hip, they are mostly Leftists, but, their entire business-model is centered around thin and somewhat attractive women (you heard me, many of the “top” models are fucking freaky looking with no ass).

    They then gather in only the most elite places (Milan, Paris, NYC, LA, etc) and need to find a way to get there Leftist ideas out somehow.

    Each decade they attempt to break down the dominance of White Model by featuring a black model in Cosmo, or, having an all Black issue of some fashion magazine. Then, they go right back to their light-skinned European looking models (have you ever noticed how ALL of the top Brazilian models are light skinned when a huge portion of Brazil is not).

    It is one of the few industries that can actually say that they rely on genetic superiority (for models, at least) and nothing else.

    Even most sports don’t rely on genetic dominance that much.

    Like


  22. on August 14, 2008 at 6:44 pm Usually Lurking

    I’m so sick of Jessica Alba

    Are you sick of her, or do you find her unattractive? There is a big difference.

    I guarantee you that if you had absolutely no idea how she was and she walked into your class/office/whatever, your head would snap to attention.

    Like


  23. on August 14, 2008 at 6:46 pm Patrick Bateman

    Tattoos usually make me want to fuck a girl more, but that Frankenstein tat is an exception.

    Anyone else notice the genuinely ugly chick is begging for a cock in her mouth? These feminists chick love to be dominated by the type of man they claim to hate. Feminists desire dominant men even more than average girls do.

    Like


  24. Feminists desire dominant men even more than average girls do.

    Yes, because as Roissy puts it, young women prefer to date upwards when it comes to personality, intelligence, and financial status. If you’re already dominant, you’re going to need an even more dominant male to meet your needs.

    Like


  25. on August 14, 2008 at 7:15 pm Usually Lurking

    Anyone else notice the genuinely ugly chick is begging for a cock in her mouth?

    I believe that she was a hardcore lesbian. And, if anything, it was food that she craved.

    Like


  26. on August 14, 2008 at 7:21 pm random passerby

    Usually Lurking, she’s not my type, and I’ve never been interested in her.

    Like


  27. on August 14, 2008 at 7:23 pm Steve Johnson

    Chicks don’t want to see ugly women because they put themselves in the woman’s shoes.

    Guys don’t want to see ugly women because they prefer to look at hot women.

    When it comes to preferences in guys, that’s another story. Women appreciate looking at a hot guy (young women like more girly hot guys, older women more masculine hot guys) but they don’t mind seeing less attractive guys because they only really empathize with the women on television / in movies. For example, the typical sitcom with the schlubby guy and hot wife. Guys see it and think, “cool, a hot chick”. Girls see it and think, “look, a hot girl (like meeeee!) with a schlubby guy, I guess I really am hot because my b/f is schlubby too!”.

    Ugly women don’t cater to anyone’s preferences. Personally I wish they would all go away. Except at bar close. Then I don’t mind.

    Like


  28. on August 14, 2008 at 7:27 pm Gunslingergregi

    She just needed a double basball bat that is all.

    I was dissapointed woman were ok guys mostly in shape what happened? They where just all posing in wierd unatural angles is about it.

    Like


  29. on August 14, 2008 at 7:31 pm Patrick Bateman

    I believe that she was a hardcore lesbian. And, if anything, it was food that she craved.

    Those hot dogs she crammed down her throat were obviously Freudian substitutes for the cocks she truly craved.

    Like


  30. on August 14, 2008 at 7:44 pm Usually Lurking

    I was dissapointed woman were ok guys mostly in shape what happened?

    What happened to that sentence?

    Like


  31. No way Roissy! Ugly people have hit TV shows…

    The number one show on earth is American Idol and it features:

    Two really ugly men ( Randy Jackson and Simon Cowell )

    and

    Two so-so looking women ( Paula Abdul and Ryan Seacrest )

    …but even with its cast of “ugly” charaters they are ratings numero uno!

    Like


  32. I believe that she [Andrea Dworkin] was a hardcore lesbian. And, if anything, it was food that she craved.

    She was married (to a man), granted in a rather odd relationship.

    Like


  33. on August 14, 2008 at 7:57 pm Gunslingergregi

    lol lurking

    Like


  34. on August 14, 2008 at 8:04 pm Usually Lurking

    She was married (to a man), granted in a rather odd relationship.

    Yes, I know. I stick by my assertion.

    I am no Dworkin expert, but she was very odd. AFAIK, she chose to go into “prostitution” even though 1.) she had no interest in men, 2.) she was not born poor, and 3.) who the hell did she think wanted to have sex with her.

    I am not so sure that she was ever and actual prostitute. Also, I think that the guy she married was gay, though, my memory is foggy.

    Like


  35. on August 14, 2008 at 8:05 pm Usually Lurking

    Gunslingergregi, I was just playin’. I know that English is not your first language.

    Like


  36. on August 14, 2008 at 8:18 pm Gunslingergregi

    I am thinking about teaching it too lol it is my first.

    Like


  37. And speaking of ugly: An ugly black woman flight attendant accused the attractive Mrs. Osteen(married to Joel Osteen, a wealthy televangelist who would have been a high eccliastic in the Middle Ages or Renaissance, no doubt) of assaulting her. Wasn’t there a post here about ugly on the outside=ugly on the inside? And years ago, you had to be pretty to be a stewardess too.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080814/ap_on_re_us/osteen_s_wife_lawsuit

    Like


  38. goggle Gema Ward, she was the number 1 high fashion model for a good 4 years.

    High fashion models are often unattractive in terms of conventional beauty.

    Like


  39. random passerby said:
    You also asserted that culture, the media and Hollywood have no bearing on who men find attractive. As I said before, the same celebrities keep popping up in those forum threads over and over again. If you go to Korea or Japan you’ll be sure to find a different set of celebrities that everyone likes. Beauty standards have also varied in different times and places. In China they used to practise foot binding, and Japanese women once dyed their teeth black. Even the beauty standards of Hollywood were quite different half a century ago. Hard-wired preferences exist, but they’re not mutually exclusive with those shaped by society.

    I totally agree, and I am sick of Jessica Alba too. Really, I’m just sick of most of Hollywood. Most of the actresses who people think are beautiful are usually average American women (face) women.

    Some stunners:
    Gabrelle Union
    Katherine Zeta Jones
    Courtney Cox
    Eva lingoria before she got the mom bob and started jacking up her face with treatments

    Like


  40. on August 14, 2008 at 10:14 pm frederick lenore gustafson IV

    even that bald guy isnt truly UGLY, per se, but they gave him this dorky bowtie and he’s got this clownish expression on his mug that screams “dateless”

    tone down the cartoon aspect and he actually looks decent (forgetting the fact that hes bald and probably fat)

    Like


  41. Each decade they attempt to break down the dominance of White Model by featuring a black model in Cosmo, or, having an all Black issue of some fashion magazine. Then, they go right back to their light-skinned European looking models (have you ever noticed how ALL of the top Brazilian models are light skinned when a huge portion of Brazil is not).

    Not 100%

    You are right about most Brazilain models being lighter complected. The last crop of brazilain models almost all have blonde hair and blue eyes. They are not as nice looking as the group from which Adrianna Lima and Giselle came from.

    . American Vogue only features models on the cover two times a year. Foriegn editions of vogue have blk models on regulary. Even read *gasp* very dark blk models a couple of times a year. Black models did very well in the seventies, eighties and nineties btw. Anna Wintour Editor and Cheif of American Vogue has her own agenda for keeping out blk models.

    Like


  42. 19 Random Passerby
    Regarding forumites views – I guarantee if you offered a celebrity/model they didn’t vote for, they would take her over 95% of all other women, at least.

    Or, guys have different types that they like, but if you sorted women into these different types, gradations would become very clear. If you’re picking between models/celebs of the same type, you’re already choosing among the top 5% (at least), aka a restriction of range*, yielding bullshit results. But with the entire span of a population represented, it would become very obvious.

    *Restricting range distorts results. Eg, you’ll find a correlation between height and skill in basketball, or weight and success as a linebacker in the population at large, but if you study the professional players of the respective sports, the connection is strongly reduced.

    Like


  43. on August 15, 2008 at 1:25 am random passerby

    The point is that there is no absolute standard for beauty, and that who people are most likely to find beautiful depends on their culture. Yui Aragaki is popular in Japan, not Jessica Alba.

    “All men” do not agree on what’s beautiful.

    Like


  44. If I were more entrepreneurially oriented I might consider starting a model agency. All the women would have to meet one specific requirements.

    And you all know what that would be.

    Like


  45. A few of you seem confused. Fashion, and fashion models, don’t exist to turn men on. Fashion could care less about men, especially straight men. It’s a game for a certain kind of gal (and the gayguys who attend to them). Many women love tinkering with their looks purely for its own sake, in much the way that many guys love tinkering with cars or computers. You do it ’cause you love it, and/or you love the way it brings you into a world of like-minded people (other fashion-obsessed women and gayguys, maybe — or other computer buffs). Fashion caters to these gals, and to the gals who enjoy daydreaming about the whole scene.

    And you’re complaining about models as clothes-hangars? Hey, dudez: That’s what they’re paid to do, to show off the clothes. They aren’t there to turn you on. You aren’t even on the radar screen.

    And, incidentally, bony tall girls tend to show fashion-type clothes off beautifully. That’s the main reason there are so many of them in the fashion biz.

    Like


  46. on August 15, 2008 at 10:59 am SovereignAmericanMale

    Alias Clio:
    Stunner…
    Katherine Zeta Jones

    Is not American. She is a welsh beauty who exemplifies the celtic-gaelic look commonly called “Black Irish” something about the greek sailor injecting a bit of the Med into the high borne tribes to take beauty to the next level.

    She has a mind and a half on her as well. She locked Micheal Douglass (a Scot) up with a pre-nup that includes, among other things, a five million dollar penalty for each time he sleeps around behind her back. Given his worth is north of 153 million he can do it a few times, but damn… no woman on the planet is worth a 5 million dollar one night stand. Not with a wife as beautiful as that, like that.

    Its like passing up Kobe Steak for a burger at mc donalds.

    Like


  47. Catherine Zeta-Jones had some extensive plastic surgery done on her face, especially the nose, some time in the 90s. Watch her in her early 90s stuff: she looks like a nice girl next door, not a stunner. Then, a few years later she suddenly looks like a classic beauty. Aside from the surgery, losing a few pounds also helped.

    I think the idea that the “Black Irish” have Mediterranean ancestors is a myth not backed by DNA studies.

    Like


  48. Sovereign American Male, you seem to be confused. I’ve made no comments on this post (until now). I think you’re thinking of Chic Noir. With whom I disagree, by the way, because she says that Gemma Ward is not beautiful.

    I’ve said this before: there is a classic underlying structure, harmony, and proportionality that defines beauty, probably in all societies across time. But there are also many frills, fads, or fashions that come and go. These are favoured by some societies but not others, which is why some people are deceived into thinking that beauty varies so much from culture to culture.

    For example: Lips like Angelina Jolie’s or Jessica Alba’s would have been thought ugly in the United States just a couple of generations ago. Slightly full lips like those of Elizabeth Taylor were good; full lips resembling those of a black person were unacceptable.

    Clio

    Like


  49. on August 15, 2008 at 1:05 pm Patrick Bateman

    I think the idea that the “Black Irish” have Mediterranean ancestors is a myth not backed by DNA studies.

    It’s a myth that they are any closer genetically to Mediterraneans than other Northern Europeans are, but much of Northern Europe was populated by Mediterraneans at some time. The black Irish and other dark Britons have just retained more of the Mediterranean phenotype, though their genotype gives them away as Northern.

    The Spanish armada has also been used as an explanation for the black Irish, but the number of Spanish sailors that ended up in Ireland was too small to have much of an impact. I have met one Irish person with a Spanish surname.

    Like


  50. on August 15, 2008 at 1:57 pm SovereignAmericanMale

    In the words of a gunslinger, I cry your Pardon, Alias Clio as I incorrectly addressed my party.

    Like


  51. The fat ugly was the late Andrea Dworkin who presented herself as a hard-core lesbian, but was nothing of the sort. She was obsessed with the erect penis to the point that she wrote about virtually nothing else. She was in some respects a talented writer, and would have made a superb pornographer (which her writings resembled in any case). You haven’t read such lovingly detailed descriptions of hard cocks raping weeping, sopping vulvas even in porn that can match the obsessive stylings of Ms. D.

    At the end of her life, her repressed longing for rock-hard bone took over what was left of her mind, and she fantasized what she had wanted for so, so long: that she had been raped and used and used and raped by (IIRC) several thick veiny cocks that just wouldn’t take no for an answer. Nothing of the sort happened, of course.

    Andrea Dworkin was no more a lesbian than Catherine Zeta-Jones. The difference is CZJ got the cock-stuffings that AD could only dream of. AD was a tragic nut-case whose effect on feminism was almost entirely destructive.

    And she was fucking ugly! Inside and out. Beauty is skin deep, but AD’s ugly went right to her heart.

    Like


  52. on August 15, 2008 at 2:52 pm Patrick Bateman

    She was obsessed with the erect penis to the point that she wrote about virtually nothing else.

    I rest my case.

    Like


  53. on August 15, 2008 at 3:00 pm SovereignAmericanMale

    Selected excerpts for the Greek-Black Irish Link

    DNA science overrides oral tradition and speculation. Cf.
    http://www.dnatribes.com

    —–Original Message—–
    From: Tony Scully [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 9:19 PM
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: [BLACK-IRISH] Mystery Solved

    My immediate ancestry (all 16 great-great grandparents) were born in Ireland. Genealogical research reveals, in some cases, expected lines of descent from Scots and Normans and presumably Vikings.

    I’ve heard the phrase “Black Irish” my whole life, with many people routinely asking me if I was Italian because of my brown eyes and black hair, in a predominately Nordic looking family.

    I’ve also listened to the faintly absurd explanations about the Spanish Armada. Some in my family claimed we had Native American blood; naturally I wondered if some of my predecessors had lied about their country of origin.

    ——————————————————

    I knew where my immediate ancestors were born. I just
    wanted to know where my brown eyes came from. My results were astounding, with the predominant DNA from Berber (Morocco — the north African Caucasians, probably Semitic ), followed by northern Greek, and Flemish (probably some of the Normans)

    DNA showed top 3 concentrations of dna as being
    1. Beber (as in the barbari coast) Well known for Greek sailors.
    2. Northern Greek specific markers
    3. Normans (Flemish)

    ——————————————————

    The PBS series on Ireland of about five years back makes the point that in its roughly 8000 year history, especially early on, people came to Ireland in boats from all over the world. The Arthurian legends supposedly emanate from these early Irish,

    specifically from its northern Greek population.

    My own name, “Scully,” is really the Greek word
    for “scholar,” so I’m not surprised about the Greek DNA.

    The above is one of many cases. As such, I rest my case.

    Like


  54. on August 15, 2008 at 3:05 pm Usually Lurking

    She was obsessed with the erect penis to the point that she wrote about virtually nothing else.

    Like I said, I was no expert. BTW, where did you learn this stuff? Was it in a particular book or article?

    Like


  55. on August 15, 2008 at 3:10 pm SovereignAmericanMale

    @52 PatrickH

    Damn your eyes for writing that.

    Forever more there is a Pavlovian link etched into my mind, I now have a synaptic connection between (1) CZJ, (2) AD and (3) her lovingly detailed descriptions of hard cocks raping weeping, sopping vulvas.

    Now I will have nightmares of AD with a hard cock-like strap on raping the weeping sopping vulva of the delectable Angelic CZJ.

    Damn you!

    Like


  56. That ain’t Frankenstein on her shoulder- not exactly, anyway. I think it is Herman Munster.

    Like


  57. on August 15, 2008 at 3:40 pm SovereignAmericanMale

    Clio
    Do you mean 40 years when you say generation?

    And when you say:

    Lips like Angelina Jolie’s or Jessica Alba’s would have been thought ugly in the United States just a couple of generations ago

    Would 80 years suffice for your context?

    So, the phrase “bee-stung lips” which predates 1928, to describe a beautiful woman is irrelevant to the discussion?

    bee-stung adj. (of a woman’s lips):
    antedate 1953
    (now antedated to 1858)

    http://www.oed.com/readers/appeal.html

    Like


  58. on August 15, 2008 at 3:40 pm Patrick Bateman

    SAM

    I wouldn’t trust their tests too much without knowing their methods. Recently published results on European genetic diversity demonstrate that genetic differences follow geography pretty well. If a certain DNA test concentrated on genes for eye color, hair color, etc. then a Northern European could very well group with Mediterraneans when a more thorough evaluation of his genome would reveal a closer affinity with the red haired, green eyed girl next door.

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  59. As my post explains, SAM, “bee-stung” or full lips, meant something more like Liz Taylor’s or Marilyn Monroe’s, or even, in the 1920s, Betty Boop’s (the cartoon character), or Jean Harlow’s little red pout.

    NOT Angelina Jolie. NOT Jessica Alba. Those mouths would have gotten the label “n****r lips” in a flash, once upon a time in America. Europeans were less critical because that old American fear of miscegenation was less strong there.

    As late as the 1970s, models had thinnish lips by today’s standards: Christie Brinkley; Cheryl Tiegs; Shelley Hack; Farrah Fawcett etc. I can’t speak for the women in men’s magazines because I seldom saw them, but Christie B. and Cheryl T. both posed for Sports Illustrated in the late 70s/early 80s.

    Clio

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  60. 55 Usual L:

    I had the misfortune of being exposed to the inner life of Ms D when she was much much more current than in the last fifteen years. Back around 1990 or so, she was at the vanguard of the anti-porn movement, which at the time looked like it might actually succeed in outlawing porn. Remember, the Web was nowhere to be found, and there seemed to be at least a possibility that Ms D and her freakazoid lesbitious allies might hook up, so to speak, with fundie Xtians, also more influential then, and get some serious statutory restrictions passed–they succeeded for a time in Minneapolis, I believe. This period was also the height of man-bashing, which operated at a level of intensity that needed to be experienced to be believed. I read some excerpts from, and descriptions of, Ms D’s work, including by sympathetic reviewers. They all commented on Dworkin’s obsession with penile/vaginal “rape”, and her hyper-detailed descriptions of fucking.

    As for 56, Sovereign A. M.: there’s no use damning my eyes for writing that, since your absolutely sick-making image has caused me to gouge my eyes out with a railroad spike. Nothing but bleeding sockets left to damn, I’m afraid.

    Thanks a lot, buddy. Payback’s a fat-hog bitch with a strap-on, as they say. And you paid me back good.

    Now…Catherine MacKinnon, Dworkin’s major intellectual ally, was much more presentable, even cute. Seeing her work CZJ over with a strap-on…that would be acceptable in this quarter. It might even erase the memory of…

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  61. on August 15, 2008 at 9:54 pm SovereignAmericanMale

    @61 PatrickH

    Now…Catherine MacKinnon, Dworkin’s major intellectual ally, was much more presentable, even cute.

    Ahh mz. Kitty “women/group consent all hetrosex is rape” MacKinnon.

    Dizzy/Dizzy8 calls her stupid, and discretely implied that her work was too.

    I’d wager that you have read “Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women’s Studies”.

    I have some hard questions for this one lady.

    For example:

    Since they love to throw the rape card, oh so much, lets look at this following item. (never mind the invisible crime of lesbian on lesbian rape)

    Here are some challenging thoughts for you.

    Q. If a warpig forces sex on a man, is it really rape?

    Don’t ask for how the scenario played out. Think a kidnapped Nick Styles (Denzel Washington) in a 100 meter empty pool (Ricochet 1991) getting raped by a hooker.
    Or worse.

    If the PC and Feminist lines is “Man” has sex with drunk “woman” = rape.
    Or worse, is at a collage party with a hooker and doesn’t even have sex with a woman, but she claims nonconsentual sex happened = rape. (think Duke U.)

    Correct?

    Methinks pretty much yes. Such extreme Feminazis think that “erection implies consent”.

    But the same logic of “lubrication implies consent” does not apply for them, for whatever reason.

    Pay it no mind that an erection is an autonomic (like blinking) biological function and has nothing to do with consent. (a meeting of the minds)

    A. The correct answer would be yes, warpig is a rapist.

    Q. Do women commit the crime of rape?

    A: PC line says “No”. Current legislation says through case law and legistlative acts “No” Re: Rape.

    Q. Do women batter and commit violence on men?

    A: Domestic violence laws are changing in the better for male victims, enforcement of these new laws is quite slack.

    Q: Where is the “EQUALITY”?
    Q: Why no corresponding analog for Male on Female rape?

    A: “Some are more {class groups} are ‘EQUAL’ then others” -Animal Farm,
    George Orwell.

    What say you, PatrickH?

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  62. “She is a welsh beauty who exemplifies the celtic-gaelic look commonly called “Black Irish” something about the greek sailor injecting a bit of the Med into the high borne tribes to take beauty to the next level.”

    Actually, she looks…*Welsh*.

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  63. on August 15, 2008 at 10:46 pm SovereignAmericanMale

    @60 Alias Clip

    NOT Angelina Jolie. NOT Jessica Alba. Those mouths would have gotten the label “n****r lips” in a flash, once upon a time in America. Europeans were less critical because that old American fear of miscegenation was less strong there.

    The malefolks call them DSL (dick sucking lips) in the case of A.J.

    Its nice to see a liberated mind not shackled with a subconscious censor, as some even now feel guilty of a thought crime for thinking thoughts you have dared publically express.

    Furthermore as a member of the Female class, you can get away with it, whereas a white male member of neo-conservitive party line radio talk (Rush Limpdick) would be roasted alive.

    I don’t now if its on the banned/censored list in Canada, with its big brother grip on the media, hate speach and other thought crimes.

    But a very good book and a decent author who writes about about, the word that shall not be named/used without ***s:

    http://www.amazon.com/Nigger-Strange-Career-Troublesome-Word/dp/0375713719

    (Better not disparage Islam, or question the holocaust in print or on the net for profit. The cops are on the job.)

    Clio

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  64. SAM, in #64 you’ve managed to make it look as if I signed my name to your post. I assume you inadvertently stuck your text between my message and my name when you copied my post into your message. No matter. Just noting for the record that it wasn’t my comment.

    I don’t know why anyone would assume that citing other people’s bizarre prejudices should imply that one shares them, but it’s an odd world we live in now, and I suppose stranger things have happened. I mentioned the matter only because I recall reading about comments of that kind when the first really full-lipped models (blond and blue-eyed like Kim Bassinger) began to appear on the scene: they often remarked that people had called them “mean names” because of their lips when they were in high school.

    Clio

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  65. 62 SAM:

    All true. And of course, women can use threats of accusations of assault or rape (!) in today’s zero tolerance environment in order to coerce sex from men.

    And very true about the issue of lubrication as an indication of consent. Of course it isn’t, any more than are the orgasms that women sometimes experience during rape (see the story of a campus rape over at 2blowhards). So neither are erections. But remember, SAM, we “males” are biologically expendable, and our survival and welfare is simply a lower priority for our “patriarchal” society. Nobody gives a damn if we’re bent, folded, spindled, mutilated, or roasted alive over mesquite and served with a tangy mole sauce to the homeless.

    Feminists of the Dworkin/MacKinnon ilk simply don’t give a damn about anyone who’s not like them. They don’t even care about women outside their own little North Am campus world (MacKinnon herself, to be fair, has spoken out against the treatment of women in the third world; her epigones are sickeningly indifferent on the whole.)

    Anyway, [SEGUE ALERT] good luck with Emily. Maybe something magic will happen with you two. Absolute Power Exchange anyone?

    If it does, can I watch?

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  66. Sorry Clio, I just don’t get the appeal of Gemma Ward. I think 54* year-old Christie Brinkley is better looking , than twenty year- old Gemma.

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  67. @clio comment 65- Julia Roberts and Hunter Tylo have both been quoted as having been called mean names because of their lips. SMH at SAM, he didn’t get your comment but I understood.

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  68. Ugly Betty is a remake from a colombian show, and in the colombian show the actress really is ugly (http://dailycandor.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/betty-la-fea.jpg)

    but she is hot when they make her beautiful (Ana María Orozco Aristizábal)

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