Serial Seducer

I have found my twin ego – platonic soulmate – in New York City. He’s a self-proclaimed serial seducer who has just outed himself on national TV. Despite the anti-romance subversion of his message, his fifteen minutes of fame will guarantee a doubling of his current notch count. His steely-eyed pursuit of the pussy earns him my respect.

“Either you acknowledge reality and use it to your benefit, or it will automatically work against you.”
– Robert Ringer

He has written a short e-book outlining his pickup philosophy and field tactics. Standard fare for those of us in the know, but a wider audience would probably find his advice scandalous. I noticed a lot of what he writes parallels my experiences in the field. For instance, he agrees with my assessment of the best night of the week to go out for picking up chicks:

My schedule is drinks with girls Sunday night through Wednesday, and often Friday as well because it’s an early night because I work at 8:30 on Saturday morning. Thursdays, perhaps the best night of the week to go out, I usually go “window shopping” with a buddy, a wingman. We usually go out to check out the hot scenes and look at the girlies all done-up. We may meet a couple girls, even get digits or get laid, but the bulk of my work is not accomplished here.

He also agrees with me on the value of building intrigue in a woman by not talking too much when you first meet her:

The less than one-minute engagement works for a number of reasons. First off all, it prevents the guy from doing anything stupid or awkward, or revealing too much. A nervous guy can torpedo a promising situation by talking too much and turning the girl off, or freaking her out, perhaps by mentioning he lives at home with his folks, or something like that. The less talking you do, the better. Women, as well as men, like the fantasy or “romance” of meeting “that guy”, and since almost no guy is ever going to live-up to some bullshit Prince Charming archetype (who wants to, anyhow) at least prolong the fantasy for your benefit. This leads to the second reason the one-minute engagement works: it maintains the intrigue. “Who was that dashing stranger I just met in the rain?” she thinks as you walk off with your raincoat trailing and your umbrella extended. As they are reeling from the encounter, trying to process what just happened and remember the fine details of what you said, and how you looked, and just how you stood, you’re already gone, not there to fuck it up. They’re hooked. Their mind is already working on you.

Luck favors the laconic. Until you’ve had sex with a woman, it’s my experience that less talking is better. Women tend to be better talkers and can intuit a tremendous amount from some guy who is yapping his gums off. Keep things unspoken, or refuse to divulge stuff; above all, keep it playful, flirty and mildly combative. The French have a word for it – badinage – which means playful, verbal banter.

Keep in mind that this guy is a Harvard grad, so it’s not stupidity that necessitates his economy of words.

I was not surprised to see he’s a big fan of text messaging, like I am, which flies in the face of some of the conventional wisdom that texting is beta:

It is the era of the text message, and men all over the world should be thanking their lucky stars. Not only is this the most effective way to control the conversation and avoid missteps, but you can now reach a larger audience. As my friend Nathan says, “Text messaging has got to be the worst thing that has happened to women in a long time.” It removes that old filter that used to prevent all types of guys from getting laid, something we call “Women’s Intuition”. You know what I’m talking about. You leave a pleasant voicemail on some chic’s phone after meeting her, but you ramble a bit and the tone of your voice becomes increasingly less confident and unsure of itself. You hang up, dissatisfied with the call. It’s the Swingers dilemma – do you call back, etc. (Never call back, by the way). She senses your nervousness, gets turned off, and deletes your number.

Getting little text messages via phone gets them excited in the way a little girl gets excited about a letter from Daddy when he’s away. There is something more fun or romantic, and mysterious about texting, I don’t know. Plus you can make outrageous propositions that you could never deliver with aplomb over the phone, much less in person.

From the video, Janka is a good-looking guy, and that, coupled with the power of dropping the H-bomb on dates, probably gives him a leg up over the average schmo. However, he says his success rate with women only skyrocketed after he learned game — or what he calls “having fun and maintaining my integrity as a man” — which is really just another way to describe the heart of game. This, too, comports with my personal experience. No matter how much objective value a man brings to the dating table, if he doesn’t have a grasp of female psychology and how to handle it his interactions with women will feel like a grind — cajoling, compromising, begging, pushing, pleading, pursuing — just to get a taste of pussy.

Reading further into Janka’s e-book, it turns out he makes little money as an SAT tutor and lives in a glorified closet in Manhattan. In NYC, this is enough to negate his advantage in looks and educational credentials. So clearly game is his biggest asset.

In a related article, a frigid man-hating bitch psychiatrist offers the following helpful advice to a 41 year old man who loves making love with women and being happy as a man:

For your own sake and for the sake of everyone else unfortunate enough to have their lives intersect with yours, you need help. If you don’t stop this behavior, you will likely contract a disease, get yourself arrested or enrage someone so much that you are harmed. If you want to try living a normal life — something beyond a life governed by sexual addiction — you need treatment, either individual treatment or group treatment.

Yes, did you get that? If you are a man who is not afraid to be a man and likes sex with a variety of women you need professional help. I wonder if I counseled women who were addicted to commitment from the men they dated that they should seek treatment for their conditions how they would take it? Offended, I’m guessing. And if the women I counseled complained that they can’t help themselves, I will say “You have free will, right?”

Older women on the precipice of sexual extinction – like this wretched psychiatrist – especially loathe men who are able to exercise their options in the sexual market because these men, through their actions seducing multitudes of women, remind them of their rapidly diminishing market value and interchangeability. A free man who can get pussy when he wants undermines the greatest source of women’s power. To the keepers of polite society, it cannot stand, so men who are able to satisfy their sex drives must be demonized and declared unfit for normal life.

I am wishing this desiccated cunt psychiatrist labial cancer with my mind.

In other news, Chelsea Clinton is still dog ugly. I predict she will have her first… and only… child at the tender age of 36. The Bush twins, meanwhile, will be very fertile.





Comments


  1. I’m wary of this guys advice because of his movie-star looks. Also, he appears to contradict one of Roosh’s cardinal rules in ‘Bang’ (never compliment a girl because it increases her value relative to yours) with his opener advice ‘i think you’re really cute’.

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  2. Yeah, I agree with cuchulainn: this guy bases his succcess with women on his looks, but obviously the denial mechanism kicks in and he thinks it’s because of his game. That’s why I like about Roosh’s dating advice: they come from an average guy who struggles with women, so his advice how to succeed is very valuable.

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  3. Text messaging is the best–and the worst thing–to ever happen to dating, game, whatever you want to call it. It allows easy access, which is clutch. Also, women get to obsess over the deep meaning behind every text, which we all secretly love. But, socially retarded men and dumb women can hide behind texts and it takes a long time to figure out you are dealing with a dud. I guess thats the whole point–if you are just trying to bang, doesn’t matter all that much if they guy can barely tie his shoes–but if there is any sort of real interest, it can be maddening. Also, pussies hide behind texts. I dated a guy for 6 months and never talked to him on the phone. ONCE. I would call, he would text back. Very beta, methinks.

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  4. i’m glad you’ve found your soulmate. i think i finally had my roissy fill. i wish you a v. happy and health 2008. sorry i’ll miss the masterpiece. but then i’m pretty sure it will the normal roissy heat. tschuss.

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  5. While I have zero problem with anyone openly pursuing persons of their preferred gender with whatever frequency suits them best, I note that you neglected to mention that the individual chastised by the psychiatrist is married.

    One wonders if she’s advising him to seek help because he’s clearly conflicted – he chose to get married and vow to forsake all others, he’s choosing to stay that way at least outwardly, but can’t seem to face those decisions on a daily basis.

    Regardless of what the psychiatrist says, it’s the inability to man up to his own decisions that’s unappealing in my book.

    As for Janka, I suppose there is something admirable about anyone who can engage in such singleminded pursuit of a goal, but I’ve found it’s the ones who don’t need to talk about themselves, who can actually deliver when it counts. Meh.

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  6. I wonder if Alphaness for picking up women and Alphaness with regards to the male pecking order are the same thing. Watching Janka on video suggests that they aren’t, even if there usually is a strong overlap. I’d be nervous to leave a girlfriend alone with him, but I wouldn’t worry about him as, say, a competitor at the office. He looks intimidating as a competitor fro women, but not as a man.

    That’s not to say that he’s a dud. I liked his relaxed, non-intense bearing. I was also impressed by how he stared down the psychiatrist who was sitting on his right — not aggressively; more like attentively listening to her — which had an intimidating effect on her.

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  7. whatever makes you happy is my motto. just don’t spread player-love advice to people who are looking for the real deal. it’s not nice.

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  8. OK so this bears some discussion. First of all, plowing her with liquor while you drink seltzer? I’m not saying get bombed, but one or two to loosen up never hurts.

    Second, he seems to suggest lying to get her back to his place. This seems completely counterproductive, and an especially dramatic woman might even call it “kidnapping.”

    I respect his direct game; no lines, makes your intentions obvious straight from the gate, no time wasted.

    I’m curious about what you think.

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  9. on December 31, 2007 at 6:28 pm David Alexander

    In other news, Chelsea Clinton is still dog ugly. I predict she will have her first… and only… child at the tender age of 36. The Bush twins, meanwhile, will be very fertile.

    She’s not dog ugly, and the Bush twins are not hot. Hell, the Bush twins’ mom only had one successful pregnancy, and it’s not like she had a career getting in the way. IMHO, John McCain’s daughter, Meghan, is hot.

    Besides, Roissy, where are your kids? There are plenty of (stupid) women who’d love to marry you, but somehow you’re spending your days in DC having endless sex with women you’re not too fond about…

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  10. Besides, Roissy, where are your kids?

    If I’m guessing Roissy’s age correctly (early 30s), then he’s at the peak of his pick-up powers. Returns diminish abruptly after 40-45.

    A good age for a man in our society to marry and have children is 33-35. At such age he can easily marry a 23 to 24-year-old woman, and won’t be an old fuck when his kids hit their teenage years.

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  11. Is it me or has the field of professional psychology become completely corrupt? I get the distinct impression that the Today show producers needed a salacious topic for early morning consumption and the right professionals vacant of any ethics to deliver.

    Shit, I just realized I sound like the flake Tom Cruise.

    Incidentally, Janka’s description of women in New York is as precise as it gets.

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  12. A good age for a man in our society to marry and have children is 33-35. At such age he can easily marry a 23 to 24-year-old woman, and won’t be an old fuck when his kids hit their teenage years.

    It wouldn’t be so easy. Many women in that age range would consider those men to be too old for them. For one thing, the men would be at the outer limit of the half-your-age-plus-seven rule, which at least some women follow. Many women would realize that a 10- to 12-year age gap would become more and more significant as both spouses grow older. After age 40 or so men age much more quickly than women and have this pesky habit of dying young.

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  13. I wonder if Alphaness for picking up women and Alphaness with regards to the male pecking order are the same thing.

    To elaborate a bit, one thing that I found striking about Janka is that, as a man, I don’t find him intimidating in the least, the way I would, say, a cocky young Marine captain, however I definitely see him as formidable with women. Those two types of Alphaness typically go hand-in-hand, but that’s not the case with Janka.

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  14. i agree with pa but am unsure. he doesn’t seem to have much desire to climb the status ladder, usually an indicator you’re dealing with a pure alpha. he’s got a degree from harvard yet is mickeymousing around tutoring.

    but i still question his advice. no way would me going up to a woman and saying ‘you’re cute’ get me a number in under a minute. an instant compliment, is that not soooo beta?

    by the by, check out the female commentators, most of them seem attracted to him in spite of it all.

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  15. Peter: a lot of this depends on the way a man ages. Some very normal and healthy 25-year-old men look like weathered and grizzled 40-year-olds. In their case, they would seem ickily old for a 23-year old girl (and her parents). Richard (Tom Selleck) and Monica in “Friends” are fictional, but they are credible, as far as I can tell.

    However, many men retain a youthful and energetic appearance well into their 30s and are very attractive to women in their early 30s.

    Anecdotally, my wife and I were 23 / 34 respectively, when we married; my sister and her husband 27 / 37, and my best friend was 31 when he married his 23 y.o. fiancee. I know, this is all anecdotal, but to me we seem to “work” better than couples more closely matched in age. And we’re all mainstream, middle class Americans.

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  16. I meant “…attractive to women in their early 20s. “

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  17. re: direct v indirect game.

    direct game is like swinging for the fences. a lot of misses but when you connect it’s a home run. and yes, a good-looking guy will have an easier time getting numbers with direct game, but he’ll still need solid game to close the deal.

    as for janka, he’s not really paying the girls the type of compliment betas use. saying a girl is “cute” is an acceptable and vaguely affectionate compliment that works well for direct game.

    a couple of examples of direct game i like to use:

    “i noticed you from across the room and i just had to come over and say hi.”

    “i hate to think i’m the type of guy to brazenly flirt with a girl, but yeah, i’m that type of guy.”

    other than the differences in approach style, janka’s basic advice is similar to roosh’s advice in his book. janka even uses some terminology that tells me he is at least peripherally familiar with the seduction community.

    rina: just don’t spread player-love advice to people who are looking for the real deal. it’s not nice.

    player-love and the real deal are not mutually exclusive.
    you need the one to experience the joy of the other.

    pa: I wonder if Alphaness for picking up women and Alphaness with regards to the male pecking order are the same thing.

    i think there is something to this. the kind of female-centric gift of gab that lotharios possess is often at odds with the brusque talents required to excel amongst men.
    some of history’s best ladies men presented themselves as deliberately androgynous.

    da: Besides, Roissy, where are your kids?

    soylent green.

    peter: After age 40 or so men age much more quickly than women and have this pesky habit of dying young.

    you’ve mentioned this a few times. i think you are dead wrong on this matter. in my observation it is women who age much more rapidly and deleteriously than men after the age of 40.

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  18. I also meant: “In their case, if they were 35, they would seem ickily old for a 23-year old girl”

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  19. peter: After age 40 or so men age much more quickly than women and have this pesky habit of dying young.

    you’ve mentioned this a few times. i think you are dead wrong on this matter. in my experience it is women who age much more rapidly and deleteriously than men after the age of 40.

    I don’t agree. Many, many women these days are staying fit and youthful-looking well into their 50’s and beyond, just as many, many men are fat and pathetically out of shape before they hit 40. Of course there are many exceptions on both sides, but I am convinced the general rule is as I state. Consider, for example, the fact that the huge fitness and diet industry/culture is aimed largely at women. What may account for the belief that women age more quickly is the fact that they lose their fertility at a relatively young age. That’s undeniable, but it’s far from being the whole story.

    As for the fact that men die so much younger than women, well, that’s a proven fact.

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  20. A good age for a man in our society to marry and have children is 33-35. At such age he can easily marry a 23 to 24-year-old woman, and won’t be an old fuck when his kids hit their teenage years.

    Planning is fun! Also, I have yet to meet a couple with such an age discrepancy. 90% of the girls my age dating men ten years older are not of the right state of mind, if you know what I mean.

    I don’t think that psychiatrist analyzed this man correctly. He doesn’t suffer from sexual addiction. Rather, he suffers from the male equivalent of upper class teenage girl anorexia.

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  21. What a great man you are Roissy! I hope & pray to meet an uber-seducer like you or this “Janka” in the field. (Is that pronounced “Yanka”?) I’m sure it would be so fulfilling. And should you ever have a daughter you can teach her exactly what to look for in a man, and you’d definitely want her to be on the lookout for only the most skilled seducers like you and Yanker, so she can make herself more easily available. Why waste time on amateurs?

    “THE BASIS OF LIFE IS FREEDOM. THE PURPOSE OF LIFE IS JOY. THE RESULT OF LIFE IS GROWTH.”

    Reptiles need not apply.

    http://www.abraham-hicks.com

    Don’t kid yourself, Roissy. Not all women who think men like you are scum, are feminist man haters. Non-feminists hate you because you in particular are scum, not because they hate all men. I love real men, but hate phony, exploiting sub human reptiles like you; male or female. Don’t flatter yourself. The fact that you look up to this Yanker because he is a Harvard Grad proves what an ass kisser you are.

    The basis of life is freedom, and just watch what happens when you use your freedom for this kind of life deadening shit. I guess to you the pussy is worth selling your soul for. Enjoy!

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  22. If you have yet to meet a couple with such an age discrepancy, then how do you know that 90% of the girls your age dating men ten years older are not of the right state of mind?

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  23. “..but the bulk of my work is not accomplished here.”

    I love the way he calls what he does “work”. Maybe he can win a Nobel Prize for his “work”. 😀

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  24. a couple that comes together just as you described: a presumably sane couple, where the man played the field and then settled down with some normal, attractive girl.
    i guess i should have specified that.
    i’ve met a lot of couples where the man is 10 years older, and dating a girl my age. but one or both is is totally insane and/or had a very hard time meeting people of the opposite sex up until they found each other as “soul mates”.
    what i’ve seen more of is older men marrying women only a few years younger than them.

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  25. peter: What may account for the belief that women age more quickly is the fact that they lose their fertility at a relatively young age.

    i was thinking more along the lines of skin tone and texture. women lose the luster of youth from their skin far sooner than men do because men literally have a thicker epidermis than do women.
    also, given equal exercise and diet habits, men hold onto their muscle tone longer than women, who tend to sag and droop at an earlier age.
    i highly implore all women to take up the habit of weightlifting.
    please.
    for the love of my rock hard rigid member.
    you don’t realize how fast you’ll lose the firmness of your delectable bodies once you’ve passed the age of 28 or so.

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  26. PA is completely right. A age gap of around 10 years is optimal to maintain a lifelong commitment. Truth is, men will always be attracted to younger women. The American way of doing things (marry a woman your own age, divorce and marry a woman 10 years younger) is incredibly destructive to the institution of marriage.
    Men die younger statistically than women, but if you take out violent deaths and workplace deaths the difference isn’t that much. men tend to be stronger and more vigorous than women until they are 65 or so, but then wear out much faster then women. That’s probably the price for staying more vogorous than women for two decades.
    Why can a 40 year old woman be attractive and not a 40 year old woman? The answer is easy, attraction is based on reproduction, and because women after 40 can’t get pregnate they become invisible for men. A healthy, goodlooking and rich 40 year old man can be an interesting father for a young woman’s future children.

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  27. irina: Also, I have yet to meet a couple with such an age discrepancy. 90% of the girls my age dating men ten years older are not of the right state of mind, if you know what I mean.

    funny, i’ve met tons of these couples. and not a one of them struck me as mentally or emotionally unstable. perhaps your observations are more indicative of the social circle you swim in?

    in my experience, about 60% of women don’t mind — and even prefer — dating 5+ years older men than themselves. the remaining 40% who have issues with it i have learned to quickly filter so i don’t waste my time.

    for the record, i routinely date girls 5 to 10 years younger than myself. in fact, in the past four months i have dated 5 girls who were over 10 years younger than myself and all of them were extremely sweet, fun girls. my last long term relationship was with a woman 9 years younger. the LTR before that was with a woman 10 years younger.

    for men, it’s not their age so much that matters but their outlook on life and their youthful exuberance. personality is the biggest asset a man brings to the table.

    Rather, he suffers from the male equivalent of upper class teenage girl anorexia.

    or maybe, like most men, he likes having sex with lots of women. no armchair psychoanalysis needed.

    sara: Non-feminists hate you because you in particular are scum, not because they hate all men.

    you sound like you need a good root.

    The fact that you look up to this Yanker because he is a Harvard Grad proves what an ass kisser you are.

    i admire his purity.
    his ivy league credentials ain’t got nuttin’ to do with it.

    I guess to you the pussy is worth selling your soul for.

    define soul.

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  28. “Rather, he suffers from the male equivalent of upper class teenage girl anorexia.”

    most girls probably don’t want to be anorexics. most guys want to be this guy.

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  29. roissy, need i say more.

    upper class girls become anorexic as part of the attempt to control everything in their life. they may not want to be anorexic, but they sure want to be skinny.

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  30. This is all I can come up with: hahaha

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  31. Roissy, to engage in some stupid “define soul” analysis with you is to miss the point, which you (of course) are bound and determined to do regardless. So like I said, ENJOY. No one is stopping you. You think you’re so far above it all in your ivory tower of superior indifference and secret society of seducers separated from the rest of us mere humans. Well, some of us mere humans see through your intellectual posturing and find there’s nothing beyond it. The thing that’s amazing, you look up to “men” like Yanker and likewise guys here look up to YOU!!!

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  32. Also Roissy, your comment about me needing a good “rooting” was priceless though predictable. Frankly “rooting” doesn’t appeal to me. I can do better than a mere “rooting”. “Rooting” is what creeps like you and Yanker engage in. Been there and trust me, from a woman’s point of view, it’s not that great!!.

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  33. damn, i already feel bad. i’m not calling you insane. just anorexic. eat something

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  34. I agree with PA with respect to age. In NY, where many men are on average more affluent than the rest of the country, it is almost deriguer for a man to date a much younger woman. That financial stability is coupled by the fact that men can maintain themselves quite well into their 40s and women just can’t do the same for a host of reasons. I know plenty of men in their 40’s pulling girls in their 20s. One of my close friends, a triathlete whom I train with is in his mid 40s and just married a 25 year old.

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  35. The guy who is married and seeing multiple women on the side is a man, but half-alpha – a whole-alpha would man up and tell his wife the truth.

    Why is he hiding his flings – a real man needs variety, it’s a biological fact. He needs to lay down the law with his wife and tell ALL. If she doesn’t accept that he’s just his hometaker, SHE’S the psycho delusion one… I bet he’s never told his wife to “bring me a beer I’m watching the game, b*tch.” P*ssy man

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  36. As long as a man swore to fidelity during his wedding vows, he is not an Alpha if he cheats on his wife, openly or otherwise.

    A true Alpha understands that honor is the most important thing, and he won’t compromise it by breaking his word.

    Cheating on a faithful wife is to Alphaness as rape is to seduction.

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  37. (By the way I’m female) Sorry if those were strong words… but this blog has really OPENED MY EYES.

    So… I’m 27, my boyf (mostly alpha, let’s say 85%) is 26. He’s talking about marriage… according to this blog, I should probably say no, right? It’ll never work out since he’s not 5-10 years older? Especially because he is so alpha (lawyer working in private equity, lots of girl “friends” – I know what they really are).

    Why he wants to settle down with a 7 like me, who knows… but I’m definitely not into being a starter wife and divorce in general. Money isn’t that important to me, I’m still naive and want true lasting love! And to marry the guy I’ll spend my whole life with… But alas according to you all I’m old already, maybe I should give up.

    Any tips on where females who don’t deny game but want to thrive in it can get help? Especially if we’re over 24?

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  38. And yes I’m trying to not be bitter… but fact is fact, and if this how God created man and woman, well I’m just going to do my best to be in harmony with the laws of nature.

    😦

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  39. “So… I’m 27, my boyf (mostly alpha, let’s say 85%) is 26. He’s talking about marriage… according to this blog, I should probably say no, right?”

    Not necesarily. it could be true love. The risk however, that when he is 40 he will at least get a 28 year old lover is very high. There is no way a 28 year old woman can compete with a 42 year old (unless we are talking about things like obesity or srong ugliness).
    But it’s a risk. ON the other hand, it could be true love.

    “I know plenty of men in their 40’s pulling girls in their 20s. One of my close friends, a triathlete whom I train with is in his mid 40s and just married a 25 year old.”
    20 years age difference tend to be to much. Women tend to see father figures if the age difference is over 20 years, and the woman will end up soon with an old man. I would advice to every men to look very carefully when marrying a woman who is more than 15 years younger. I’s not healthy to cross the 15 years age limit. For sex it doesn’t matter, but it dos for marriage. I don’t understand why so many people would oppose a 27 year old with a 15 year old woman (an optimal age diference and age of the female for a future marriage when she will form strong bonds), and don’t say anything when a 45 year old man dates a 21 year old girl (where the man is too old for the woman to form a family).

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  40. Roissy, I recently wrote a post on the Janka affair for my blog, which I think you will appreciate.

    Yet after doing some more research, I am not sure how much I want to be defending this guy in particular. I think my general points stand, but after reading about his tactics to get women “liquored up” (his term), I don’t think he is really someone I want to defend as an innocent victim of misandry.

    From his book:

    Tell the bartender how it is – she works for you for the 2 hours or so you’ll be there. I tell them I don’t drink but that I am meeting a lady, and that I don’t want her to feel uncomfortable so could they please bring me seltzer waters, in a high-ball glass, with a lime. And call it a Tom Collins. Or a Gin and Tonic if you prefer. Never leave your drink, and don’t let the girl sip it – she will freak out, I guarantee you. If you go to the bathroom, take it with you. When done, take both her glass and yours to the bar and give them to the bartender. Also, I find that drinking 2 or 3 seltzers on top of the meal I ate an hour before (solo or with a buddy) can be a challenge; I usually tell the bartender to make mine almost entirely ice; hers, little ice and stiff.

    Bring the drinks back (it’s best to order at the bar while she’s sitting on the couch so she can’t hear the conversation) and do a nice little toast, making strong eye contact when the glasses clink. Avoid giving orders to the waitress out loud because she may here you say “Tom Collins” and respond, “I thought you were drinking seltzer” or something worse. Advise them to NOT announce your drink when they hand it to you, as they often do: “Apple Martini for the Lady and a seltzer for the Gentleman”. You’ll be fucked if they do that – not the good way. Also, and I learned this the hard way, don’t let the girl see the bill. Sure drinking water keeps the cost down, but she’ll flip when she reads, “Seltzer – $4.00” after you’ve been drinking “G&T’s” all night. I was able to avoid terrible embarrassment one night when precisely this happened by looking sheepishly at Nicky, and saying “Look at that – they undercharged us. Should I mention it?” She was still suspicious. Save yourself a huge problem – keep the bill private.

    I greatly enjoyed most of the rest of his book, but I’m really not down with this part. Notice that it requires several layers of doing something behind the woman’s back: talking to the bartender, avoiding giving orders to the waitress, avoiding letting the girl sip your drink (wtf? I love sharing drinks with girls), and making sure she doesn’t see the bill. I don’t think that consent is destroyed if both parties get a little buzzed, but getting one person unilaterally intoxicated while remaining sober (when they believe that you are drinking too) is morally questionable. It’s exactly this kind of shit that give players a bad reputation.

    Moreover, it’s just not solid game. Janka should be working on his game, rather than on these shenanigans to get around a need for game. He says elsewhere that he has stopped using this tactic because he calculated that it wasn’t cost effective, which is comforting, but lack of cost effectiveness wasn’t the only problem with what he was doing.

    I still think the Today show segment was a total hack job, and I found a lot of what Janka said inspiring, but I am afraid that he is not the person that I wanted him to be. He isn’t the figurehead that I wanted, and I don’t think that he is really your twin ego either based on what I’ve seen of your writing.

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  41. whole-alpha would man up and tell his wife the truth.

    I disagree. When a man stoops down to cheating, it can be to his credit that he maintains enough discretion to keep the betrayal quiet. Telling his wife the truth is just rubbing her face in it.

    I have little respect for cheaters. It can’t be that hard to resist the temptation, go home, and jerk off.

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  42. HughRistik: good points. I also had that WTF reaction to Janka’s non-drinking. There are few things as fun as rolling into bed with a girl, both parties happily buzzing — or even equally shitfaced. The stealth-sobriety is just too wierd.

    Maybe Janka has a problem with alcohol, and can’t allow himself even one drink.

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  43. Is the first “tip” in this guy’s rulebook to go to a plastic surgeon and have your face rebuilt to look like his?

    Because I think 3/4 of this guy’s “game” is his looks, not anything that needs to be put down in the form of a book.

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  44. soylent green.

    You’re better than that. Come up with a better answer next time.

    I know, this is all anecdotal, but to me we seem to “work” better than couples more closely matched in age. And we’re all mainstream, middle class Americans.

    Women tend to see father figures if the age difference is over 20 years, and the woman will end up soon with an old man.

    I don’t understand how you guys can prey on women who are that young. I’m 24, and most of the younger women seem immature and gullible, and the I don’t see how I can date ten years younger when my niece is ten years younger than me. It comes across as something that’s rather creepy to me, IMHO. I’d much rather hold out for a woman of my own age to affirm my self-worth than to go slumming for a girl that will overlook my shitty factors due to her lack of experience.

    BTW, I have had two friends date in the ten-year age rage. One female friend is 35 with her 46 year old b/f, and their relationship has been rather stable, and devoid of anything that one would consider abusive. The other friend was 22 and her b/f was 37, and the relationship seemed okay from what I remember about it. Interestingly, both of these women were feminists, so I we can’t argue that feminists are all evil manhaters who want to ban sex.

    I don’t understand why so many people would oppose a 27 year old with a 15 year old woman

    Because the 15 year old is a girl, and not a real adult, IMHO.

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  45. peter: What may account for the belief that women age more quickly is the fact that they lose their fertility at a relatively young age.

    i was thinking more along the lines of skin tone and texture. women lose the luster of youth from their skin far sooner than men do because men literally have a thicker epidermis than do women.

    Men may have thicker skin, but women take better care of theirs. And cosmetics can do a pretty good job of covering the signs of aging that do appear.
    In any event, it’s not necessarily true that the average man of, say, 55 has more youthful-looking skin than the average woman of the same age. It might just be that we notice the woman’s skin and not the man’s.

    also, given equal exercise and diet habits, men hold onto their muscle tone longer than women, who tend to sag and droop at an earlier age.

    It’s the “given” part that makes the difference. Past age 25 or 30, women are much more likely to be physically active than men. You can get confirmation of that by looking at the clientele in almost any gym or fitness center. There even are some major fitness center chains that are exclusively for women, and which tend to attract a somewhat older crowd, vs. basically none just for men. Women also comprise a substantial majority of the people who attend weight-loss programs such as Weight Watcher and Jenny Craig. And note that Nutri-System had to start up a men’s program, the one with those ridiculous ads with Dan Marino and Mike Golic, in an attempt to avoid being an all-women bunch.

    Sure, there are some super-fit older guys, like the triathlete mentioned in another comment, but for most guys after 30 or 35 “exercise” consists of slumping in front of the TV watching the game while sucking down vast amounts of beer, chicken wings and nachos, with maybe a weekly round of cartball during the season. Even getting exercise from doing yard work is largely an obsolete notion, now that men use ride-on lawnmowers to mow their 1/8th-acre yards or simple hire Mexicans to do the work.

    In addition to what I’ve already mentioned, there are three important reasons why men age faster than women, especially past 40 or 45:

    1. Weight distribution. Both men and women tend to put on weight as they age, and even if you overlook the fitness gap noted above weight gain looks worse on men. For various physical reasons men carry excess weight on their abdomens (the classic beer belly) while women carry it on their hips and rear ends. Wearing the right clothing can go a long way toward minimizing a woman’s excess hip and posterior fat, while a beer belly is nearly impossible to conceal. And this isn’t to mention the fact that excess abdominal fat is very dangerous to one’s health.

    2. Hair loss. Lots of men have thinning hair, while few women do. While a fully shaved head’s okay, partial baldness (e.g. the George Costanza look) makes the typical man look old before his time. Unless a balding man is willing to shave his head, there’s not much he can do; hairpieces never look quite right, and comb-overs are ghastly.

    3. Gray hair. Both men and women go gray, of course, but women have a much greater ability to color their hair. Dyed hair on a man, like a hairpiece, usually looks weird and unnatural.

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  46. Maybe Janka has a problem with alcohol, and can’t allow himself even one drink.

    That could be, though that’s not the impression I got from reading his piece. If it is true, however, he’d be much better off telling the woman upfront, and making it clear that he’s drinking nonalcoholic beverages. His deception with the seltzer water is just too dishonest.

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  47. This guy is the human equivalent of the “sneaky fucker” that is ubiquitous in nature. Some males are monogamous providers, others are violent harem-guarders, and then there are sneaky fuckers — the ones who fly under the radar, mate with females, and get out. They are usually smaller than the other males and tend to look like females from afar — the better to avoid detection by the skull-crusher males.

    I compared these types to human strategies here:
    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/09/popularity-of-pretty-boys-and-frequency.php

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  48. Men die younger statistically than women, but if you take out violent deaths and workplace deaths the difference isn’t that much.

    Cite please.

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  49. “I don’t understand how you guys can prey on women who are that young. I’m 24, and most of the younger women seem immature and gullible, and the I don’t see how I can date ten years younger when my niece is ten years younger than me.”

    In ten year, when you are 34 you still willl be craving to fuck 22 year olds DA, believe me.

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  50. In ten year, when you are 34 you still willl be craving to fuck 22 year olds DA, believe me.

    I assure you, it’s not going to happen. If I haven’t committed suicide by that age, and I don’t marry, I’ll stay single and not “cheat” by using women who don’t know any better irregardless of their advances.

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  51. Found it ok but difficult to digest

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  52. I wonder what this guy hoped to achieve by agreeing to appear on this show. Dominated by PC dogma as it is, mainstream media is hostile to social improvement and seduction. They do their best to make him a monster, although he holds his own ok.

    I suppose all publicity is positive. Maybe his bang factor will go up as women who see the story will love the challenge of “reforming” him. Women are highly susceptible to social influence — if they see other women pursuing a guy they want him too.

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  53. Oh and by the way, what is everyone crying about? This guy likes to lay lots of women. Jeez, who doesn’t? He pursues this objective with chutzpah and verve. I admire that.

    From the story, he doesn’t tell lies or sell women false fantasies like they are the only one for him forever. He’s direct and leads forcefully. So he pretends to drink, so what? And women stuff their bras and wear fake eyelashes, big deal. He’s not lying. If he were, that wouldn’t be right.

    I don’t understand people like DA who say that picking up, charming and seducing a woman is “preying” on them. Has this guy lied to her? No. Does me make promises he does not intend to fulfill? No. Does he force her? No. We have two consensual adults enjoying each other’s company. Ahem, where is the problem?

    Some folks on this thread seem to think that women are incapable of taking responsibility for making adult choices, that they are fragile human beings who need to be “protected” from their own decisions. Gimme a break. I give women more credit than that.

    Grow up and take responsibility. And remember that women, like men, enjoy a good roll in the sack from time to time.

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  54. I hear you Azuzuru, but I don’t think stuffing bras is equivalent to fake drinking. One is image enhancement, the other is lulling someone into a less than sober state of mind that isn’t mutual. This, in my opinion, is bad game and starts creeping toward the line of “preying.”

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  55. You sound like the male form of me…I like the part about the belittling remarks by the psychiatrist. I think ugly or sexually inactive people are definitely out to ruin our sexually-charged parade. They turn our sexual escapades into morally wrong acts because of it. Ballzy post, i like it

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  56. sarah, did you sit on a corn cob or something ?

    there is a lot of “i can’t get it so i don’t want anyone else to get it” but there is something else too. a lot of people just can’t be happy no matter what. maybe their pleasure center is shrivled or something. these kind of people are highly toxic, ala this shrink.

    roissy, are you familiar with this part of the brain ?

    the pleasure center is a positive feedback mechanism to get organisms to do the things they are meant to do, like eat, reproduce, etc. this is why femminists are always so effing miserable — they act contrary to their own needs and so never get rewarded.

    i read an article once; i don’t remember all the details, whether it was during a real operation or for research purposes, but a woman had her pleasure center stimulated directly with electrical current. she went into ballistic ectasy and got violent with the doctor when he refused to give her another jolt.

    maybe this is something sarah should look into, while she is having a cobectomy.

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  57. I don’t understand people like DA who say that picking up, charming and seducing a woman is “preying” on them.

    My problem is with guys like Ganon who prey on girls who I believe are much too young for him. I believe he prefers younger women because they are unaware of whatever flaws prevent women closer to his age from finding him attractive.

    Otherwise, if a girl finds Roissy and his game attractive, then it’s not any of my particular business. If Roissy hurts the girl, I may think he’s scum for doing so, but they are two consensual adults. It isn’t much of my direct concern. I just choose not to use game since it’s not in my personality to do so. If I end up alone because I don’t ask women out or because I choose to stay fixed with my rigid bizzare hyper-porn star tastes, then quite frankly, I have nobody but myself to blame.

    And remember that women, like men, enjoy a good roll in the sack from time to time.

    I used to think that wasn’t true, but I slowly learned that not being approached by women does not equal a lack of sexuality in women. If anything, we might as well just let the alphas take all the women, and let the betas fester in their own cespool of failure. Let the women get what they want! 🙂

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  58. My problem is with guys like Ganon who prey on girls who I believe are much too young for him. I believe he prefers younger women because they are unaware of whatever flaws prevent women closer to his age from finding him attractive.

    That staement is unfair DA. I don’t prey on younger women. My current relationship has lasted 1.5 year and is still going strong. I do not prey, I look for sex.

    “whatever flaws prevent women closer to his age from finding him attractive.”
    No david, completely wrong. I have had a girlfriend which was 1 year younger than me and also a gf which was only 1 year younger. I also had sex with a woman older than myself. I chose this time to date a younger woman, and honsetly, i HAVE FOUND THE EXPERIENCE BETTER. Woman my age (24), if they aren’t engaged already are a little bit burned out.

    “If anything, we might as well just let the alphas take all the women, and let the betas fester in their own cespool of failure.”
    DA, I’m definitively not an alpha, more something like a beta plus or a lesser alpha. But if you want a gf, the aproaching must be done by you. If she rejects you, come back sometime later but understand that you have to move on. Sooner or later you will get lucky.

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  59. I do not prey, I look for sex.
    Should say: I look for a relationship.

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  60. Hm. I only started dating because my lack of dates was hurting me in the career sphere (nobody wants to promote a nerd). If I were independently wealthy, I probably never would have bothered. There’s clearly some correlation between alpha among men and alpha among women. Still, you have plenty of pickup artists who aren’t that successful financially and then there are guys like Bill Gates.

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  61. i have noticed on more than one occassion there is a certain kind of male that has all these pre-conceived ideas about women and relationships. inevitably they end up un-married and alone. eventually, if they live long enough, they start scoring granny poon (shudder).

    chelsea clinton is in fact butt ugly; the illicit spawn of webb hubbell and the grand bitch. webb was lucky to get out of that one with his head still attached to his body.

    one of saddam’s sons had a collection of pictures of one of the bush daughters, funny enough.

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  62. agnostic said:

    This guy is the human equivalent of the “sneaky fucker” that is ubiquitous in nature.

    agnostic, is there something that makes you say that other than his alcohol tactics? His personality seems like a smooth variant of alpha male to me.

    David Alexander said:

    I just choose not to use game since it’s not in my personality to do so.

    Every guy has elements in his personality that are conducive to game, and that detract from it. In my case, gaming with my personality sometimes feels like trying to saw wood with a toothbrush. Yet other elements of my personality, or moods I can be in, are more attractive, and I try to bring those out. Consequently, I am substantially more successful with women than I would be otherwise.

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  63. “chelsea clinton is in fact butt ugly”
    Really? Not to be offensive, but she just seems like an average (american) white woman in her late twenties, and at least isn’t obese. The bush’s bitches are pretty goodlooking, but also nothing to die for.

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  64. honsetly, i HAVE FOUND THE EXPERIENCE BETTER. Woman my age (24), if they aren’t engaged already are a little bit burned out.

    In other words, they’re less likely to say no to you, and much more willing to bend over backwards to meet your needs while you have to do nothing to appease to them? You’re always saying how relationship bonds are stronger with women in that age range, it seems like you’re taking advantage of such traits to create an addiction in the female for you.

    But if you want a gf, the aproaching must be done by you. If she rejects you, come back sometime later but understand that you have to move on. Sooner or later you will get lucky.

    Yes, that’s what I get for waiting for the tooth fairy to give me a girlfriend like it was an entitlement.

    There’s a 100% chance of (white, hell, all) women saying no. It’s fruitless to try and bother at this point. I’m simply too every quality bad to even really try, and I like myself too much to change and become him

    Every guy has elements in his personality that are conducive to game, and that detract from it.

    I don’t think so. There’s an element of the male population, while not fundamentally broken, will just simply be unattractive to women irregardless of game or whatever else they do. I suspect that I’m in that segment, and I don’t mind. It’s just how life turns out for some people.

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  65. 57, “sarah, did you sit on a corn cob or something ?”

    I just checked, and nope nothing there. Not even constipated.

    “..she went into ballistic ectasy and got violent with the doctor when he refused to give her another jolt.” “maybe this is something sarah should look into, while she is having a cobectomy.”

    Fascinating comeback…yawn.

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  66. There’s an element of the male population, while not fundamentally broken, will just simply be unattractive to women irregardless of game or whatever else they do.

    This is complete nonsense.

    You have what we call an “inner game” issue.

    A big one.

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  67. Every and I do mean every, poster on this board has some inner game issue. Why is everyone still caught up in “game”? Being natural is the way to go. It isn’t beta to give a compliment to a woman if that is truly what you want to do. As long as it’s coming from a place of self-amusement who cares? It was really funny when I saw the post that said: “Giving compliments is beta, right.” honestly the first thing that came to mind was 12 year olds playing video games that scream hahahahaha nooob when someone inexperienced comes and asks a stupid question.

    Roissy, Sara is right, you are creating an ivory tower for yourself, you need to justify your reality to others (beta as you would call it) and this blog is partly a personification of that. I don’t dispute your allure to women. Fuck your game could be a 10, but you still lack the power of a true natural. Not the naturals that occasionally pull, but the real naturals, the rockstars of this world that have 1000’s of girls begging for their dick without much effort. Part of this is lifestyle, but the other half is having natural game which is to unwire all the stupid socially constructed rules the seduction community has plugged into you. You jumped from one restrictive society (our general society) to another equally contrived and restricted one (the seduction society).

    As far as all this morality is concerned, 15 is too young in my opinion, but biologically nature wanted girls to have sex starting at puberty so… the morality question is yours (along with the legal considerations of course). Anyway, all this evo-bio talk is usually just a clever way of distracting from the main arguments which are usually about biology on a macro level. Unless you have a supercomputer that is only going to be built 10 years down the road, don’t pretend to know how DNA (microbiology) affects personality (macro biology). It’s mental masturbation in the end.

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  68. Oh one more thing. It is the mass medias job to keep us sad little beavers so we buy more shit to plug the hole in ourselves. We try to fill a bottomless bucket by fueling the GDP. So if you want to blame someone, blame the consumerism that befalls us all, not the feminists, they are just a pretty whipping boy, just like other traditional “villains.” It’s a beautiful scheme really.

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  69. David Alexander said:

    I don’t think so. There’s an element of the male population, while not fundamentally broken, will just simply be unattractive to women irregardless of game or whatever else they do. I suspect that I’m in that segment, and I don’t mind. It’s just how life turns out for some people.

    It’s quite possible that things are just hopeless for some guys. However, I think that the set of genuinely hopeless guys is much smaller than the set of guys who just think that they are hopeless. Consequently, I would wager that you are in the second set. I once thought my life would be a never-ending stretch of celibacy, at least until my 30s, but that was before I could envision a way that things could be different.

    I’ve seen many guys who need a lot of work (I was one of them), but I be hesitant to say that any of them was hopeless, because in each case I could think of even just superficial changes to his behavior or appearance that would make him substantially less unattractive.

    I’m not going to try to convince you to do anything differently, but it’s important for you (and other guys reading this) to know that there are resources available, should you want to give it a whirl. And that’s the only way to know for sure how things would play out.

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  70. “Women, as well as men, like the fantasy or “romance” of meeting “that guy”, and since almost no guy is ever going to live-up to some bullshit Prince Charming archetype (who wants to, anyhow) at least prolong the fantasy for your benefit.”

    Roissy, if this isn’t conscious betrayal I don’t know what is. Try to think outside your analytical little box for once. The truth is quite simple and I think that’s why you keep missing it. You’re too “smart” and over think everything.

    Could there possibly be a healthier “twin ego” to aspire to than dismal characters like Janka or Mystery? Would YOU be O.K. with “game, target, and ammunition” being used to describe a woman’s intentions toward YOU?

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  71. Let’s be clear; LOVE is a game. A beautiful game. This is ugly. This is not the game of love. I’m not saying the women aren’t asking for it on some level. Women’s instincts tell them they must PLEASE men to survive even if they in fact don’t need them to survive anymore. This is DNA programming at a very deep level. You think women use sex to control men when WE are the ones who are highly likely to get bonded like super glue (SEE OXYTOCIN FOR DETAILS) to ONE man and he can fuck around worry free–who has the real power over whom? Who suffers more direct emotional pain from “casual” sex? Not you, so carry on.

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  72. Sara,

    Some women can get “bonded like super glue” to one man. Some do not – it varies from woman to woman. I recognize that some of this is possibly due to genetics but I’ll bet that it has a lot more to do with the expectations of modern Western society.

    Anyone who does not believe that women play more head games than men do is living in a fantasy world. After all, women are much better than men at intuitively knowing how to maneuver in social situations. When the little boys are running around in the yard throwing rocks at each other, the little girls are in the house playing social games and learning how society works.

    The other thing to consider is that women, typically, have much more latitude in choosing a mate than men do. Even an average looking girl in say, a bar on a weekend night, is going to have her choice of 2 or 3 potential suitors. The power scale may tip to the male side after a couple has had sex, but before that happens the power of choice is pretty much all on the female side.

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  73. The only thing worse than a serial seducer is a serial monogamist.

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  74. 73: “Some women can get “bonded like super glue” to one man. Some do not – it varies from woman to woman. I recognize that some of this is possibly due to genetics but I’ll bet that it has a lot more to do with the expectations of modern Western society.”

    Read up on OXYTOCIN. It will save you a lot of time wasting analysis. As long as we inhabit physical bodies we’re going to behave in ways associated with our particular species. And specifically whether the bodies are male or female. To say that not ALL women bond from sex is true only in the strictest definition of the word ALL. Are we going to discuss the exceptions to the rule or the rule?

    As far as “expectations of modern Western society”. Well, that is quite ridiculous actually since women have been the bonders (hence we give birth and raise children, remember?) since the human species came into existence.

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  75. 37 PA: “A true Alpha understands that honor is the most important thing, and he won’t compromise it by breaking his word.

    Cheating on a faithful wife is to Alphaness as rape is to seduction.”

    Thank you PA, you’re a prince among peons and have redeemed yourself. 😀

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  76. [smoothvirus said to David Alexander]
    “You have what we call an “inner game” issue.”

    No doubt, but what is causing the inner game issue is a “low-status, low-weight, plain-looking black male in a wealthy country” issue. One must have money and/or macho-confidence and/or looks and/or celebrity…*something* to offer. Otherwise one is repellant to females. (Ugly chicks, on the other hand, can at least get laid, at least when they’re young and willing to cater to the beer-goggled crowd.) With a serious wad of cash and a plane ticket to a third world black country, David would be sexable. Also getting past 35 will be a plus, since it will add some meat to the small frame.

    Gannon, you rock. David, he’s right. Of course there are many instances of a guy going for a naive young thing because he’s insecure, but Gannon’s recurring point–which seems to simply go over the heads of so many readers–is that girls are biologically wired to fall in love at a young (under 23, ideally in the teens) age. If a girl falls for you at her raging-hormone stage, she imprints on you like a duckling to its mother, is literally brain-wired to dig you and want to be with you forever, even if you’re twenty years her senior. Such relationships work fine provided that, when the girl comes out of the ether of idealistic youth, her logical brain backs up her youthful intuiton (i.e., the guy is in fact decent and not a pathetic loser, and is compatible in basic ways).

    David, here’s your book:
    http://www.amazon.com/Love-Sex-Robots-Human-Robot-Relationsh ips/dp/0061359750/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=119932 6080&sr=8-1

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  77. The link at the end of my comment above only works if you copy and paste the whole thing (simply clicking your mouse on it won’t work).

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  78. I would like to recommend a movie, that i think is on-topic, and would be enjoyed by anyone who reads this blog regularly:

    The Men’s Club

    In it, the Roy Scheider character is a retired pro-ball player who has a healthy appetite for the ladies. Some of his buddies can’t stop bugging him about (to them) his oversized sex drive. Finally he gets fed up trying to tell them why they are are wrong and says “I just like to fuck”.

    And that’s it in a nutshell; we just like to fuck. Doesn’t mean more, doesn’t mean less. See that guy looking at you, the one over there; I can tell you what he’s thinking: “i’d fuck that!”.

    All this dorm room philosophizing is so trite and worn out. The universe outside your navel is so much richer than the universe inside it. I wish Roissy wouldn’t indulge all the nonsense you post here, lest it dull his exhuberance for life.

    Instead of trying to make him as miserable as (some of) you are, why not try an make yourself as happy as he is.

    One last thing, I have never read one thing here, from our host, that had even a hint of malice in it towards women. Specific replies have some time carried a little heat, but nothing remotely mysogisnistic. A couple of the female posters are clearly unhinged though, probably too much melissa ethridge or something (there might be some unhinged male posters too, I just don’t pay that close attention).

    Go back to your wanking, Hillary is calling for the #6 birtch, and I need to warm my arm up…swish, swish, swish

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  79. 41 Hughristik: “I greatly enjoyed most of the rest of his book, but I’m really not down with this part. Notice that it requires several layers of doing something behind the woman’s back:”

    You then go on to say, “It’s exactly this kind of shit that give players a bad reputation.”

    What the fuck exactly gives them a GOOD reputation?

    Isn’t this just passive-aggressive fence sitting? Do you approach all of life with this level of decisiveness and integrity? Is it really that hard to just call this Janka a dismal failure as a human being?

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  80. 79: “A couple of the female posters are clearly unhinged though, probably too much melissa ethridge or something”

    I can only hope you’re talking about me, but I’m not a melissa etheridge fan. I do know someone who is, though. Hmmm I guess the corn cob comment didn’t quite get the desired response so now you’re trying the “melissa etheridge: approach. Keep trying. I’m shamelessly unhinged so you’ll have to do much better than that.

    Are you another one who thinks Roissy should run for president? Oh yeah, he’s a great humanitarian. 😀

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  81. 79 CJM says: “I have never read one thing here, from our host, that had even a hint of malice in it towards women.”

    Roissy: “His steely-eyed pursuit of the pussy earns him my respect.”

    Yes, we women just adore having men in steely-eyed pursuit of our pussies. Especially the steely-eyed part. Wow. I get wet just thinking about steely eyes. I had a wet dream about it last night in fact.

    Roissy: “He has written a short e-book outlining his pickup philosophy and field tactics.”

    This part is great. Especially the “field tactics” part. Immensely flattering.

    Roissy: “I wonder if I counseled women who were addicted to commitment from the men they dated that they should seek treatment for their conditions how they would take it?”

    The “addiction” as he puts is nothing more than chemical oxytocin bonding. Roissy is still under the illusion that women are choosing their behavior to thwart men just because we enjoy it so much. Men on the other hand just can’t help the way they are.

    The mistake women make is that if they were more aware that they’re going to want a commitment after sex, that’s what they should get BEFORE sex, because 9 times out of 10 they’re not going to get it after because then they are too hormonally “desperate” for it. And that’s a big turn off. Isn’t it?

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  82. @Yakking Guy:
    Thank you Yakking Guy for your support:
    Some people here have accused me of supporting pedophiles, which I do not. I consider sex with prepubescent girls a serious crime. I also always advice my readers to follow the law, even though I consider US ages of consent way too high. Age of consent should be at 14, and even as low as 12 if the other partner is below 21 (12 and 13 year old girls tend to be still very childish, but are atttracted to 17, 18 and 19 year old men, these guys do not deserve jail. Classicaly, a woman’s nubile age has been between 14 to 22 years old. This is the age when women form lifelong bonds with men, these are her bonding years. The bond between a woman and her first love will be specially strong. Some women in their middteens strongly crave for babies and become teen mothers, something society deems as a failure. The truth is there is nothing wrong with women becoming mothers in their teens, it is we as societry that have failed them, because we didn’t allow them to marry young adecuate men in their twenties. Young men (18-early thirties) are desperately attracted to teen girls, but instead of letting them become honorable husbands we criminalize them. Spungen says that teen girls aren’t mature enought to spot losers, that’s what parents (specially mother’s) are for. Parents should approve a teen girls suitor. Women in their late twenties who have had multiple serious sex partners will form a much weaker link with you, and a divorce will likely follow.
    Havinb said all this, I don’t recommend the men being more than 15 years older than the women. The woman will start to consider him and old men. Ideal age difference would be around 5-12 years.

    @DA: I first thought that your sexrobot issues were a lot of bullshit, but the Japanese are making real advances on the subject, While the US combats greying and low birthratyes with inmigration, the Japanese are investing heavily in robots. Still, I believe that you would be happier with your neighbors daughter next door.

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  83. sara, you really shold calm down, getting up in arms doesn’t help anyone understand your point

    you touched on “oxytocin” bonding, do you have any links or further info on this?
    that seems interesting, i alsmost missed it buried under all the ranting.

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  84. “Some people here have accused me of supporting pedophiles, which I do not.”
    Yes, it’s common (particularly among man-hating hag feminists, who love it when journalists propagate the belief) in the West to equate pedophilia with hebephilia, which is of course absurd; what is today called hebephilia was until very recently known as “getting married” (and still is in parts of the world).

    “Parents should approve a teen girls suitor.”
    Yes, that’s the key. Teens have a way of falling in love with any male close at hand (due to the raging hormones that contribute to the fairy-tale feelings), so it’s important for parents to carefully control who gets near as well as who can proceed to woo.

    “Young men (18-early thirties) are desperately attracted to teen girls”
    Yes, and the ones over thirty-three that say they aren’t are lying! : )
    Fifteen to nineteen is the physical peak for females, for males it’s early-twenties to mid-thirties. A couple who are separated by ten or fifteen years are more compatible and the man is less likely to stray when he isn’t looking across the table at a fifty year-old woman when he’s fifty.

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  85. Unclench Sara but I do see your point.

    Ideally, my kind of loving commitment is someone who is my best friend and partner. Do you know how long it takes to genuinely build that kind of rapport? Do you know how long I’d have to go without sex if I were holding out until that moment? Something has got to give and for me it is not going to be my loving commitment standards. If I have sex with people who don’t end up meeting the standards so be it. Better than tring to force that role onto every guy I happen to want to have sex with.

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  86. 15 years age difference is still acceptable, but if you pass the 15 year gap you are walking on very thin ice, and divorce is much more likely. Ideally, it shouldn’t even been greater than 12 years (8-12 years older the male is probably ideal).While it’s true that some men past 35 are attracted to teen girls, the truth is that most teen girls aren’t attracted to men over 35 (whereas a lot of 15 year old girls are attracted , and even prefer a 25 year old man over a boy their own age), and the age difference is just too much. It depends of course how the man has aged. So for a guy in his late thirties, his ideal wife would be around 25.

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  87. you touched on “oxytocin” bonding, do you have any links or further info on this?

    I’m not her, but I’ve read into the neurochemistry of love long before I came upon this blog. There are very few truly monogamous mammals, and the prairie vole is one of only a few. Humans tend to be socially monogamous, but like birds are sexually polyamorous.

    “Oxytocin is a hormone associated with emotional safety and security. It down-regulates stress hormones and encourages positive social behavior. This in turn feeds back and opens the way for more sociality.”

    The feeling this produces is often called the “mature love” or “bonded” feeling, rather than the initial rush of dopamine of “falling in love.” Ecstasy is linked with oxytocin production.

    Oxytocin induces feelings of trust, social ease and friendliness among non-sexual partners. However, without the initial dopamine rush, this chemical tend help people remain strong friends rather than lovers. It is inherently sensual rather than sexual.

    Spungen says that teen girls aren’t mature enought to spot losers, that’s what parents (specially mother’s) are for. Parents should approve a teen girls suitor.

    They can certainly spot losers, but what are considered losers by society generally appeal to a primal side of young women. They just aren’t able to override their feelings of love and adoration for the “loser.” Drug users, criminals and unemployed writers / artists / musicians are wildly popular with teenage girls.

    My husband had a combination element of all three of the aforementioned. I was a goodie two shoes who corrected him to some extent, and he was a bad boy who corrupted me to some extent. We meet somewhat half-way; I’m never going to be experimenting with hallucinogenics, and he’s never going to like authority. But not all men or women have the willpower to overcome their infantile habits. If he hadn’t quit smoking or drinking, and still made minimum wage, I seriously doubt we’d still be together today.

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  88. Spungen says that teen girls aren’t mature enought to spot losers

    spungen is wrong. whatta surprise!
    girls mature faster than guys. what the commissars of proper sexual behavior like spungen oppose is what TYPES of guys youger women are attracted to. they often are sexually drawn to older men for their power. this offends feminist bitches like spungen.

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  89. Links to some great men’s organizations.

    For men who don’t have the stomach for the likes of Janka, Mystery, and our “well meaning” host. Yes, I’m clenching Lisa and will unclench when I’m ready. The venting helps actually. As you know I’ve been through a lot.

    http://mkp.org/

    http://www.landmarkeducation.com/

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  90. Posted the previous comment and up pops “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” Is that you, Roissy? Passive-aggressive much?

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  91. wordpress has been holding random comments in moderation lately. i don’t know why. although in your case it was because you posted two links.

    btw, landmark is a scientology-like cult.

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  92. [Gannon said] “While it’s true that some men past 35 are attracted to teen girls, the truth is that most teen girls aren’t attracted to men over 35”

    Yes, and at any rate I was of course referring to the mere fact of physical attraction, not acting on it which is a whole different ballgame even where legal. After a few drinks a male elementary school teacher admitted to me that some of his seventh-grade girls were great to look at, but “I’m revolted the instant they open their mouths.”

    See Mischa Barton in Lawn Dogs. A lot of mature males find her fetching in that film (more than would publicly admit it I’m sure), not because of her age (which is actually pre-pubescent in that movie) but because she (in the film, which is totally unrealistic but it’s a movie) carries herself like a 25 year-old. A man turned on by that isn’t pedo, he’s just responding directly to the imagery of a fresh, witty girl. Confronted with a girl that young in person, normal (non-pedo) men would experience her as merely cute, not sexy.

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  93. Found this quote about oxytocin which definitely applies to me, being a very high estrogen type:

    “Estrogen enhances sensitivity to oxytocin, and thus women with more estrogen are more likely to experience the positive effects of oxytocin—and perhaps its negative effects, too. According to Theresa Crenshaw, MD, author of The Alchemy of Love and Lust, oxytocin diminishes the capacity to think, reason, and remember.”

    “Premenopausal women sometimes become attached to a man with whom they have had sex, even if the man isn’t good for them, because the sexually induced secretion of oxytocin encourages this binding.”

    “t has been termed the “cuddle chemical” because it promotes snuggling, pair-bonding, and the desire to please others.”

    From this link:

    http://www.sunherb.com/men_woman.htm

    “Higher levels of oxytocin in women enable them to be good mothers and respond to the emotional needs of their spouse, children and friends.

    During sex the increase in oxytocin causes a woman to bond intensely with her partner, creating romantic attachment. About the only time a man experiences a surge of oxytocin is during orgasm which allows him to bond with his partner as well. However, after orgasm, a man’s oxytocin levels return to their normally low levels, while the woman’s levels remain consistently higher than the man’s. This is why a man may be compelled to say, “I love you” during sex, but may not feel like saying it much afterwards when the woman is longing to hear reassuring words of love and affection.”

    Why am I so “unhinged”, “clenched”, etc.? I had a man move in with me (unwisely), we had sex on an average of twice a day for a year, I became incredible attached, and he axed the relationship and my heart, without warning one night and I haven’t been the same since. Even though he didn’t want a real relationship with me he kept me attached with on/off sex for 5 more years before I could finally (6 months ago) break away completely. Whereas to me, he was the love of my life, he “liked ME” but “LOVED having sex” with me. Get the picture? So I do take the gaming advice a little personally.

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  94. on January 3, 2008 at 7:29 pm David Alexander

    While the US combats greying and low birthratyes with inmigration, the Japanese are investing heavily in robots.

    The problem with sexrobots is that while they solve the problems of tight labour supply, they don’t solve the falling birthrate issue. Japan is the worst-case scenario, and it’s the country where feminism has played very little role in its culture when compared to the US, and it’s where the age of consent is at 14 and prostitution is de facto legal. In effect, the women would rather just live at home, and buy expensive luxury goods than to get married and have kids. As I’ve said, solve that problem. 🙂

    Still, I believe that you would be happier with your neighbors daughter next door.

    I’ve seen her here. She’s pretty, remotely attractive, but she’s Jewish and thus can do better than me. Plus, her mom appears to be some racist bitch. It’s simply easier to stay away and not date than to play the interracial game, or to deal with black women that I’m not attracted to in a long-term way.

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  95. 92 Roissy: “btw, landmark is a scientology-like cult.”

    Nice sound bite, Roissy but as usual the truth is probably a little less sexy. I found this blog site where the debate rages on about Landmark. Here’s the link and an excerpt. I heard about it from a book on tape I heard and liked a lot “Keys to the Kingdom” by Allison Armstrong. It is a VERY man friendly and supportive book about the stages of development men go through in their life times that women do NOT go through. So it’s meant to foster love and understanding of MEN. The opposite of feminist man bashing you so rightfully hate. Anyway, I don’t have personal “Landmark” experience or know anyone who does but it may not hurt to keep an open mind about it and not get too caught up in the paranoia.

    ” should be a case by case investigation because people have diverse motivations and unrealistic expectations etc. also, hurt egos must find a way to defend themselves. at landmark you have to become transparent to your own bullshit and that’s a difficult and painful process for most of us. with the wrong timing and mindset you can experience an internal resistance that sends you into denial and your only way out would be to find fault with your environment and the people who participated in pushing you that far. it takes a strong, self-aware person with clear goals to benefit from landmark, or perhaps it can also work if someone is totally at a loss with their life and needs a reawakening for their soul and a new way of percieving their situation. i have friends who did the forum, and other courses in landmark. some have been involved in it over many years. they are great people who have gone through much growth because of their self-development courses. yes, they also annoyed the hell out of me at times by trying to recruit me for the courses they loved. so what! i just explained them that it wasn’t my thing. the forum gave me what i could take away for myself and i have moved on. i also have friends like myself who did the forum and worked on integrating some of the principles they learned and never got interested in any other courses. we never talk about landmark, and i’m not interested in it anymore. i’m not fond of some of their methods but the principles they teach are real and can be found at the core of every spiritual tradition.”

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  96. on January 3, 2008 at 8:29 pm David Alexander

    seventh-grade girls were great to look at, but “I’m revolted the instant they open their mouths

    That’s the sentiment that some of my male friends have about women in that age range. They’re silly, crazy, and they’re not mature. Plus for a good number of us, the girls at that age remind us of younger sisters or close relatives that we protected from the older guys.

    Ganon, fun facts, Lilly Allen, who’s 22, is pregnant (and unmarried) with some guy from the Chemical Brothers who’s 37. Hayden Pannettiere is dating some guy from Heroes who is nearly 15 years older than her. I guess if it’s popular with celebrities, it will become trickle down to the commoners. Maybe there is hope for the Ganon World Order…

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  97. Even though he didn’t want a real relationship with me he kept me attached with on/off sex for 5 more years before I could finally (6 months ago) break away completely.

    Five years! Wow. He didn’t keep you attached; you kept yourself attached. It can be hard, but when you meet people who do not respect you, tear yourself away. You may already be doing these things, but build up self-respect, and know to walk off when you’re getting humiliated and hurt.

    Yes, that includes online interactions. If this place angers you, leave it alone. Don’t keep poking at old wounds, and certainly don’t create new ones. The outlook espoused here is a tiny one, pertaining to one narrow aspect of relationships (the initiation), and relevant to a small subset of men and women. It’s amusing to me, but it seems like it’s upsetting you.

    Love is, as you know, biochemically an addiction. If the person whom you’re addicted to is addicted to you in return, then great (although it still takes a great deal of work to make it into a viable long-term relationship). But if not, you have to quit cold turkey, like quitting heroin. Love is also a lot like heroin, and too many of us are like ex-heroin addicts, seeking that next high.

    Find solace in other things other than relationships — funner, brighter, more wonderful things. Life is short. When you’re having a good time engaging in activities you enjoy, you might find someone attracted to your energy — if not, you were enjoying yourself anyway. You project too much negativity right now from your wounds… let them heal and move on with your life.

    Sorry for the therapist tone of this post, but I can’t help but feel that you must stop even giving a crap about men like Janka and Roissy. I visit this blog to engage in the same kind of unrealistic bantering as I do when I play a video game (time for rebuff). Take control of your emotions, your mental states, and your actions. American and western society in general are so favorable for one’s happiness right now compared to other societies, including the one I came from. To be unhappy is to not take advantage of the great things that are all around you.

    You only have one life to live. Roissy’s living it how he wants to, so let him be. If you happen upon men whom you find distasteful like those in the pick-up artist community, just avoid them. Live your life how you want to live it, and stop being sad!

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  98. “Maybe there is hope for the Ganon World Order…”
    By the way, It’s Gannon with double n gaNNon, to distinguish myself.
    No Da, it’s not Gannon’s world order, it’s the law of nature (or God, if you prefer). Men dating females their own age is essentially a femininits dogma, achieved through coeducation, high age of consent laws, social pressure (you are dating a woman 7 years ytounger than yourself? you are the loser who can’t handle a grown up woman) and general expectations.

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  99. 99, Hope

    “He didn’t keep you attached; you kept yourself attached.”

    Of course that’s true. I had father issues come up that completely blew me away, I had no idea…stuff that kept me from doing what all common sense, intelligence, and all of my friends and family told me to. Though believe me, I was not a complete push over or victim though it certainly sounds that way. Who can explain everything in a blog?

    “Live your life how you want to live it, and stop being sad!”

    Great advice and thank you for your thoughtfulness and encouragement.

    Besides my daughter, family, amazing friends, business associates, clients, pets, music, and the beautiful place I live, these are my 3 favorite resources for enlightenment and happiness:

    http://www.abraham-hicks.com/
    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/
    http://www.osho.com/

    I know it would give you a jaded image of me reading my comments, but for example, on New Year’s Eve I danced for five hours with wonderful people that I’ve known for 12 years who’s love for me and vice versa keeps growing with the years. I come here to vent and maybe even influence someone.

    I’m an enneagram type eight. It will explain a lot. Highly recommended wisdom and teaching.

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  100. 99 Hope, I responded to your comment but somehow it didn’t get posted. In summary, I appreciate your encouragement and thoughtfulness. Of course you’re 100% right about ME keeping myself attached and about most of what you said. What I realize is life is about more than right or wrong. It’s about awareness and waking up. A lifelong process. Who can describe everything in a blog? I knew intellectually what was “right” and did my utmost to live by that. Being “right” and being “in love” or “true to your feelings” or “moral”, etc., are not necessarily in sync. Father issues came up…I had no idea!! Have done my best as far as I am concerned but obviously not as far as everyone will ever be concerned.

    My 3 favorite sources of wisdom and enlightenment:

    http://www.osho.com/
    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/
    http://www.abraham-hicks.com/

    Someone will undoubtedly put these down too. They’ll call it a cult or some such (to me) bullshit. I have great joy in my life from many sources. Danced my ass of New Years Eve with long time friends. A six year tradition. Christmas was with my best friend and her family. Many things to appreciate in my life. Am NOT a joyless, pleasureless, man hating person as some misperceive me.

    Am an Enneagram type eight. Read that and it will explain a lot.

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  101. it’s the law of nature (or God, if you prefer).

    Making moral appeals to the law of nature is tenuous at best. You could say that it’s natural for men to want to fuck young, nubile girls. Women could say that it’s the natural way of things for them to want social monogamy with cuckoldry on the side for optimal sperm. I don’t think you’d be too happy if your future wife had unprotected sex with another man, no matter how “natural” it may be for her to be aroused by a man with supremely alpha genes.

    Human beings have a rather large frontal cortex for a good reason. We often rise above our instincts, despite our frequent wallowing in them. Indeed, much of the advances in science have been made because of our desire to make nature our little bitch, rather than remain at the mercy of nature’s fury. Modern medicine, vaccines, air conditioned rooms, and the computers on which we’re typing. Let’s not forget birth-control and viagra.

    Just because it’s “natural” to want to fuck doesn’t mean you drop your pants in public all the time to attractive women. Right?

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  102. on January 3, 2008 at 9:59 pm David Alexander

    Men dating females their own age is essentially a femininits dogma, achieved through coeducation, high age of consent laws, social pressure (you are dating a woman 7 years ytounger than yourself? you are the loser who can’t handle a grown up woman) and general expectations.

    Irregardless of feminist leanings, for me, it seems rather weird and creepy to date women who are just older children as far as I’m concerned. I’d be just as creeped out if you were hitting on neice. I just simply don’t trust your intentions. The fact that you consider their ease in falling in love with you as a benefit only reaffirms my suspicions of the men who date at that age. I don’t think the fertility of their female partners is the concern, but the ease in manipulating them into being compliant and pliable and subserviant to their needs is probably the main concern. They’re young, pretty, and easy.

    Now, do the vast age differences hurt those of who are feminist sympathizers? One can argue that putting such an early emphasis on having children pretty much ruins the career plans of women, and it destroys their independence. It seems highly unfair that I can party around and exploring the world, and have fun until I’m 30 while my close female friend has to be burdened with children which are not easy to raise. Ganon may say lower the “party” age for girls, but how many parents will let their 15 year old girls go travel to Europe unsupervised? Hell, many parents freak out about their adult daughters doing the same thing.

    In contrast, as one feminist friend pointed out, early marriage and childbirth after college in the early twenties when fertility is still relatively “good” with an older partner may make it easier for women to stay at home with kids, but, it would require a radical change in corporate and American society to not write off women who enter the workforce at later stages. Personally, I don’t see that happening at all since careers are built when there are no children in the way.

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  103. “In contrast, as one feminist friend pointed out, early marriage and childbirth after college in the early twenties when fertility is still relatively “good” ”
    I agree with that. 22, 23 is a great age for women to marry. But if we want women to marry at that age we must let them party between 14-22 and let them meet somewhat older guys who will be their husbands. If you want your daughter maary that 30 yeat old at 22, allowing her to date a 24 year old at 16 is just part of the reality.

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  104. If you want your daughter maary that 30 yeat old at 22, allowing her to date a 24 year old at 16 is just part of the reality.

    And like I said earlier, how many parents are willing to let their daughters (or sons) party at age 14-16? American middle class parents are afraid that their children will become swept up in drugs, alcohol, get pregnant, raped, or killed (at the hands of some dirty Negro). It’s just not going to happen unless you make American parents less (over) protective.

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  105. And like I said earlier, how many parents are willing to let their daughters (or sons) party at age 14-16?
    If I had a 15 year old daughter I would prefer she would date a responsible, mature 25 year old medical or law student than an irresponsible 15 year old who only wants to fuck her and in case of pregnancy can’t take responsibilty like the older suitor would.

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  106. “Making moral appeals to the law of nature is tenuous at best.”

    social norms have to compatible with human nature or they will fail. Actial social norms have produced a divorce and childless society.

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  107. social norms have to compatible with human nature or they will fail. Actial social norms have produced a divorce and childless society.

    The social norms that you’re advocating are similar and less extreme to those used by “inferior” societies that are regularly referred to by some posters here. Besides, what’s so bad about divorce and childlessness? Maybe some people are happier that way? Maybe they don’t feel the world is a good place right now to bring children? I mean I’d like kids, but maybe it’s better than I don’t breed and create more screwed up low-IQ children into a world that will never really accept them because of their skin colour and ancestry?

    If I had a 15 year old daughter I would prefer she would date a responsible, mature 25 year old medical or law student than an irresponsible 15 year old who only wants to fuck her and in case of pregnancy can’t take responsibilty like the older suitor would.

    In America, the law or med student would be dating somebody he meets in school, and is likely to find the average teenager too stupid and immature for his purposes.

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  108. Does anyone “make love” anymore or are we supposed to just fuck now? From the posts here you would think it was all about fucking.

    Found this interesting blog interaction and wanted to share it.

    “Shaku: I must confess to being a bit pro-passive-aggressive. When I’m trying all this pop-psychology openness and vulnerability and directness and so on, well, it only then just ends up that I’ve put all my cards on the table, then the other person uses the information to their advantage, and then they further conclude that I’m a pushover and a doormat.

    response #1. (fighting passive-aggression with even more passive-aggression)

    Like about romance, tell a romantic partner that you’re hurt that they don’t call, and sure enough you’ll get jerked around forever. However, in each of those cases I have a rule, not to talk about not calling, but to have me be the most passive of non-callers, and I say do it till the other person breaks.

    That’s the one thing about passive-aggressive behavior, don’t do it unless you really think you can outlast and wear down the other person. I never complain at work, no matter how shitty they’re being, until I determine the abuse is worthy of my leaving.

    response #2. (fighting passive-aggression with aggression)

    Fuck all that passive shit.

    You are still caught up in the pop psych belief that “negativity” and “aggression” are “bad.”

    I don’t have the time to waste on assholes and I don’t care about their attention.

    Make real moves romantically and if the other person won’t step up then get on with your life and leave them behind.

    If you are worrying about what they are getting or what they are winning or anything at all about *them,* you’ve already missed the point that players aren’t worth the time to consider their shinanigons.

    The point of direct, honest and vulnerable talk has nothing to do with players or winners. The point is to be the kind of person that other direct, honest and vulnerable people can be friends and lovers with.”

    I vote for the 2nd response, though there’s probably a 3rd even better choice and that would be, don’t get involved with passive aggressive people in the first place. Flush them out well before you get involved.

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  109. Hope: One day soon I will drift into oblivion, roissy having served his purpose. I’m one of those people who represses nothing and has to indulge like a sonofabitch before I can completely drop something. Might I say that although you’re well intentioned your tone is a tad condescending? Not that I blame you, of course. Am wondering if you might be a personality type 7 or 1.

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  110. Whoops, 109 is me as if you couldn’t tell.

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  111. Might I say that although you’re well intentioned your tone is a tad condescending?

    I don’t communicate well with females, but I was trying to help.

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  112. ^ You were helpful. Thank you!

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  113. Would anyone here possibly agree that Janka is a cad? Found these synonyms:

    “CAD: bluff, charlatan, chiseler, con man, conniver, crook, deceiver, decoy, defrauder, double-crosser, double-dealer, enticer, fake, hypocrite, impostor, masquerader, pretender, rogue, scammer, shark, shyster, trickster.”

    Doesn’t sound real impressive, but I don’t know, roissy seems to know a lot more about this……

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  114. Hope just rocked it as far as I’m concerned. A few more thoughts: basically we can deduce that Sara 1, is hot. 2, has men wanting her. and 3, has been hurt. Good god woman, 2 out of 3 ain’t bad! Also I had already gotten the impression that you’re taking out aggression on Roissy that is really meant for the man in question who hurt you- and now it’s sure. Well that’s not going to help you heal. It’s really not which is why Hope was so right on with her advice. You’re transferring your energy to something else emotionally similar to what you claim to be getting away from. It keeps the feeling alive, keeps you closer to what you miss dysfunctional as it is. Hey your reaction is well within normal behavior so it’s okay. But it’s not going to heal you.
    You know what’s really satisfying? Making friends with players. Not bashing them. But not fucking them either. Real friends. I think it helps them as much as it helps us. They get their generally condescending view of women tempered a little and for us, it is as if by finding the redeeming qualities in them we can make peace with ourselves.
    Of course, on the Kubler-Ross scale you’re still firmly entrenched in anger. All in good time though. (I believe that the Kubler-Ross emotions are things we experience on any given day and not just during terminal illness.)

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  115. Why am I so “unhinged”, “clenched”, etc.? I had a man move in with me (unwisely), we had sex on an average of twice a day for a year, I became incredible attached, and he axed the relationship and my heart, without warning one night and I haven’t been the same since.

    What your guy did is against the Seduction Community viewpoint of how men should handle relationships.

    Read Allen Roger Currie’s Mode One.

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  116. 116 Lisa, Thank you. That was sweet. What happened is I was taken in by a very charming “rascal” (putting it nicely) who was very seductive and charming when he needed to be to get his “needs” fulfilled, but when it came time to “step up” he stepped down and would give me the classic silent treatment. I could see so clearly the mind fucking games he was playing with me, but being the hot high estrogen major bonding type that I am, it just made me insane. When he would not respond he would let time go by until I “cooled off” and come sniffing around again. Me being the “life is too short, forgive, and forget, love cures all type” would get sucked back into the vacuum of his dismal world so to speak.

    He’s just a coward as far as I can see and deep down I always knew it. Sorry, dad, but he’s just like you. My mother has played the role of mom to my dad for 50 years and as handsome and charming as my own father is (I love him very much) he’s highly neurotic and passive aggressive. My mother is in fact a rather heavy drinker and no saint herself though she plays the role of one. Psychology! Don’t you love it? But rest assured-not that you aren’t-this is the last go round with this one. And also rest assured that the on/off nature of our “romance” was by FAR more off than on. Believe it or not, I’m intelligent enough, with enough self esteem to see through his bullshit AND react strongly to it. I caught him lying so many times, it was laughable, but still I was an idiot and loved him like I’ve never loved before. No such thing as unconditional love? Well, I certainly felt that with him.

    The only women he’s been able to stay with long term are Jewish mother types and he’s got himself another one. I’m more of a bitch goddess type. I need a real man!! Which unfortunately for me-in some ways-attracts men like a magnet but not for my loving heart, passion for life, ability to commit, and fun, interesting, and straight forward personality. So I’ve been used, yes. In fact I dated four different men during my “off” times from the cad. Two were in process of divorce, I never slept with them and we parted amicably. One was a great friend (much older than myself). Unfortunately when we tried to take it “to the next level” I could not get into it sexually. I very regrettably broke his heart. He truly did love and know me for myself as well as my body. The other, pursued me for a year before I dated him. We dated for 3 months, he did and said all the right things, so we began having sex, naturally I got very bonded..started falling in love with him. After 3 more months he admitted that from the beginning he didn’t think we were compatible but really wanted to keep having sex with me. The only reason he finally “came clean” is because a number of bad things were happening to him that he felt were karmic pay backs. A car accident for one. So I cried for two days and got over it, but feeling hurt and horribly used once again.

    The good news; I’ve learned body language and doubt I’ll ever be fooled into submission again. And yes, I am taking it out on roissy, but he’s a big boy and he probably likes having a worthy opponent. Keeps things spicy. Truly though, I do not want what happened to me to happen to another woman. If I can get even one man to think twice before justifying his deceiving another human being (male or female) I’ll be glad. I’m just that way; protective of innocence as I love animals and children and mourn the loss of my own innocence actually.

    Am an Enneagram personality type eight. Look it up. The whole system is highly fascinating. Roissy would love it, he’s a five. ;D
    That’s my little story. And too long I know. Thank you.

    P.S. I do in fact have a player friend. Funny story I won’t go into it. Suffice it to say I caught him in his “game” mode before I got hurt, he was embarrassed, apologized, and we became friends. Still I have hard time respecting him.

    And Hope, are you man or woman? Thank you again. You spent your valuable time trying to make me feel better. I was just commenting on the parental tone, though you were aware of it.

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  117. P.S. Lisa, as far as taking it out on the man in question; I have. In the form of emails which he amazingly doesn’t block and actually reads. I get my point across though I know he gets perverse pleasure out of them too. His mother was very abusive and it’s what he brings out in a woman. Poison! The minute I would start to feel that way with him, I was outta there, but anger lingers. Because of his mother, who effectively squashed his spirit, he can’t handle ANY anger. It’s quite pathetic, because we all know anger does get expressed and passive-aggression just puts me over the edge. I tried to deal with it. I really, really tried and don’t give up easily; but have finally admitted defeat. Hooray! Something much better awaits me.

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  118. I think you done already done told us the player friend story already. Chattermouth. 😛 That’s okay I still accept kisses missus.

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  119. 120 Lisa, big kissy kiss! Mwaaaaaah!

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  120. sara, why don’t you start your own blog, so i can not read your incessant postings there. type “logorhea” into websters.com

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  121. No thanks, cjm. Don’t read them if they’re bothering you. Easy enough, eh? Free country. ;D

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  122. Dear Cjm 122: #1 you misspelled logorrhea. Don’t you have spell check on? I love words as you can tell. This is a good one. Here is my favorite definition:

    “pathologically excessive and often incoherent talkativeness or wordiness that is characteristic especially of the manic phase of manic-depressive disorders”

    Keep trying, you’re on a roll.

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  123. How did I miss this? “logorrhea was Word of the Day on March 8, 2000.”

    You see, when you try to make something go away it only gets worse. If anyone knows that I do. There is no assertion in all the universe. Only attraction.

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  124. I saw the Pickup Artist show on TV and didn’t realize that guys were taking it so seriously. It made for good TV, but real life? It was great seeing the guys get more confidence in dealing with women, but the general tone, to me anyways, was pretty arrogant and immature. Is this really a positive thing?

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  125. I just wanted to add this since we’re so into reality TV and may be stuck with it for awhile; it would be interesting to see a show where the “playees” of the “players” got to share their experiences of being played.

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  126. The whole thing is so practiced and orchestrated. I love play. I’m a very playful girly woman, but BEING played? Decidedly un-fun. For me, anyway. Do other women like it? I’ve never met one who does. It makes me feel like there is a winner and a loser and I’m the loser if I get played. Games are for playing, but what game is being played? Is it a win-win? Or a win-lose?

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  127. This is just disrespectful. Doesn’t everyone just want to be respected?

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  128. After reading this my legs are permanently closed! Perhaps this should be a men’s only blog site!!!

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  129. This is a test. Test test 123.

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