September 2008 Comment Winner

The last comment winner was back in July because you guys stunk up the place in August and I couldn’t choose a winner for that month that met my standard for excellence. But you pulled through in September.

So here it is, the September 2008 Comment Winner. Dinamo Kiev gives his insight into Russian women and the Slavic sexual market in the comments to this post, funnily enough, the February 2008 Comment Winner:

First off, it’s nuts to think that an EE woman would naturally prefer an American man.  Since when did women become big risk takers?  The World’s greatest explorers, first big waves of migrants, etc. were all men.  Adventure is in a man’s blood, but women are conservative.  All things being equal, they’d rather find someone with high status in their own society, rather than move to some other country.  You want a Russian girl?  Move here and bring all your money.  EE was bad enough 10 years ago that any American man could have come here and been a god and then taken a girl home.  No so anymore.

Most of the dudes I saw in America with Russian wives had no idea that their girlfriend/wife was fucking some Russian guy behing their back.

Game is for American men in America.  You don’t need game in Eastern Europe.  You don’t score points for witty banter here.  You gain points for being tough, macho, solid, and rich.  And not fake tough, like in America.  You’d better be ready to knock out immediately anyone that gets in your way, as a minimum.    How do you think the Russian oligarchs got rich?  By being nice guys?  They are all bandits and murderers.  And guess what?  Their girlfriends and wives don’t care that they are criminals.  Sad, but true.  Criminality doesn’t carry the sense of shame that it does in America — it doesn’t make a man here untouchable.  They were tough in an alpha sense, ruthless to everyone, and made the big bucks.  Everyone here is an Alpha — i.e. there are no Betas in the sense that someone is too shy to approach a girl.  The difference between Alpha and Beta here is: how much are you willing to push around other men and stomp them into the ground to get your way?

Your hot Russian girl will be grabbed and approached by no less than 15 men a day here, and half of the men will probably physically grab her and not accept no as an answer.  There’s no room for subtlety here.  There is no need for “approach” or “opening” here.  See a girl you like?  “Come sit with us girl.”  “Come ride in our Mercedes with us, girl.”  That’s it.

American men who come here get gamed so badly by the women, it’s amazing.  These idiots pay for dinners, Louis Vuitton bags, new clothes… and more than half of them aren’t even getting laid!   

You want a beautiful Russian girl?  Find one that is 27+ and bring her to America.  At that age, over here, she’ll be scared to death that her sponsor and/or husband, if he’s rich enough, will be looking to replace her with a younger and more beautiful model, preferably around age 19.  She’ll realize she can find some American sucker that will love her for the next 20 years, even after her beauty fades.    She can continually Diva him and turn him into her slave.    You can’t do that to a Russian man.  He’ll just turn around and say, “Next!”

All Russian girls know instinctively that they can not compete beauty wise with the new generation of girls that comes up every few years.    How do you think charming and beautiful young Russian girls turn into such bitter hag babushkas?  Because when your time is up here, your time is up, so might as well get bitter about it.

Women here are beautiful because it’s a Darwinistic society.  They know men go for looks, so they all compete on looks.  If you’re over 50 kg and a young woman, you must lock yourself in your bedroom and not leave until you’ve lost the weight.    American women are quite ugly, but I think it’s mainly because they are fat and dress poorly.    Subject them to the same kind of pressures they’d face here and I’m sure they’d gain 2.5 points of beauty within a few years.

As a side note, I’ve witnessed no less that 6 American women having nervous breakdowns here, usually at cafes talking to some male coworker, saying things like “I can’t take it here anymore!  The girls are such sluts!”   

What she really wants to say is: “I can’t take it anymore.  I can’t compete on any level with these women.  I was so popular with men in America even as a warpig, but here, not only do all Russian guys ignore me, but all the American men can’t be bothered either.”

I hear there is a term in Iraq for American women working in the green zone.  “GFB — Good for Baghdad.”  And that these women have the same kinds of nervous breakdowns upon return to America, when even the guys they were dating in Baghdad, that were so attentive to them there, no longer pick up the phone or respond anymore.

Of course America is a more civil place and a much better society, thanks to all the beta people, of course.  If you’re past 30, it’s much better to live there than here.  But if you want to see human nature at its basest, stripped of all subtleties:  to see what people really want — there’s no place better than here.

Don’t flame me girls, I’m just reporting it as I see it.

Well said, Padawan Kiev. I like his advice to fat girls to stay locked in their bedrooms starving themselves until they’re fit to be shown in public. Call it environmental activism; you don’t want your vista ruined by unsightly mounds of garbage.

As for his claim that all Russian men are alpha, I don’t buy it. But I relish a challenge, especially one involving beautiful women. My Russian trip will be like a safari to an exotic land where no one’s heard of PC or feminism or Gossip Girl, and where the women have a decent grasp of reality.

The Runner-up September 2008 Comment Winner award goes to Kick a Bitch, for his trenchant observations on the social interplay between man, woman, and flip-flop:

i like it though… i’ll have to use it sometime soon. i’ll even be so bold as to use it despite the fact that i’m also wearing flip-flops. i can already smell the musk that will accumulate from the juices of my prey’s vaginal canal as i spit forth the hypocrisy.

Sara just came.

Finally, a very strong Honorable Mention goes to Cynizen for her(?) comment on the post Top Two Rules For Dating Younger Women:

Men like you do not have any intention of a monogamous relationship and take advantage of the stupid, reckless girls with low self-esteem and bad taste. Yeah, that’ll add plenty to the gene pool should you slip up or your old balls produce enough over-eager swimmers. Men like you use pseudoscience to promote your agenda, yet ignore the advantages children  have if their fathers are not assholes or aged. 

While age differences do not inherently bother me, people who make age a fetish and those who exploit others are disgusting and are obviously overcompensating for their small dicks or latent homosexuality.

I regret finding yet another shitty blog that makes me despise people.

Stupid girls with low self-esteem falling for game? Check. Small dick compensation? Check. Latent homosexuality? Check. It’s oddly comforting to see my incredulous foes sticking to the script.





Comments


  1. Dinamo Kiev, I salute you.

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  2. Dinamo Kiev’s comment was indeed very good. I’ve spent some time in Kiev, and the women there are truly the most beautiful I’ve ever seen, and mainly for the reason that Dinamo said that American women are ugly: the Ukrainians try much, much harder. Sure, there may be some genetic advantage – blond hair and blue eyes never hurt – but you’ll never see an overweight young woman w/o makeup and wearing a sweatsuit. They put on dresses and high heels to go grocery shopping over there!

    What is it with American women? 99% of the women I see around me look like they don’t care, and maybe they don’t. Put down those donuts and Big Gulps, girls, take the gum out of your mouths, lose whatever weight it takes, don’t walk the dog in your pajamas.

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  3. — My Russian trip will be like a safari to an exotic land

    I don’t know Russia that well, but I do know it’s conventional wisdom in Eastern Europe that drawing too much attention to yourself in a wrong kind of way, and in the wrong place is very likely have consequences.

    If you’re seen as an annoying AMOG in a Georgetown bar, they worse that will happen is that some frat boys will try to give you shit, or a drunk one will take a sloppy swing at you and then ten bouncers will break it up.

    In Eastern Europe, you might get followed to your hotel and get beat up or killed. The local bouncers, cab drivers, and hotel clerks might even help those fellows out in following you. And Russian police is known for its nonchalance with regards to murdered foreigners.

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  4. on October 6, 2008 at 1:58 pm ironrailsironweights

    Women here are beautiful because it’s a Darwinistic society. They know men go for looks, so they all compete on looks.

    One theory attributes the beauty of Russian and Eastern European women to World War II. A high percentage of the male population died in the war, so in the postwar years there was quite a man shortage and the survivors pretty much had their pick of women. In turn, this meant that only the more attractive women had a reasonable chance at marriage, and they often passed their “beauty genes” down to their daughters and granddaughters.

    I don’t know if this theory has ever been proven correct or if it’s just speculation. Sounds plausible, however.

    Peter

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  5. Those were some great comments. Another reason I think Eastern European women are hotter, based on the Russian guys I met when I was over in Western Europe, is that they do not think a woman is doing them a favor just by having conversation with them. They are willing to have high demands from chicks in how they should look, dress, etc. Their girls will wear heels and be dressed up to the nines to go anywhere, with no complaints about whether or not their shoes are comfortable. Here a girl will wear flip-flops to dinner, be well over 30 and put no effort into her looks and still feel entitled to a wedding proposal after a few months of marriage. And the guy will still give it to her and feel like HE was the lucky one that got a catch because she has a 4 year degree from a good school that his mom can brag about. We’ve become such women that we even evaluate our mates the way women do now.

    I always wonder how our Judd Apatow movies showing betas like Michael Cera and Seth Rogen as the face of the modern American male fare in Eastern Europe and other places where being macho is still king? Do they think the average American male is a geeky, slacker flabby pothead playing X-Box all day in his underwear and socks that’s afraid to talk to women? Or worse yet, is that actually the truth about what the average American male has become now and I’m just in denial about it?

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  6. — How do you think charming and beautiful young Russian girls turn into such bitter hag babushkas?

    I get DK’s larger point, but ‘babushka’ is a rural thing. A lifetime of farm labor. I saw a similar thing in Korea, where every woman over 30 outside of the cities was stooped over and withered-looking. Instead of “babushkas,” they were known as “ajimas.”

    — One theory attributes the beauty of Russian and Eastern European women to World War II.

    It sounds plausible, but don’t forget that as late as early ’90s, “Eastern European Woman” was synonymous with “ugly.” Do you remember a TV commercial in the US, beer I think, in the 1980s, that showed a mock Soviet fashion show and elephanitne models showcasing “svimm vyerr, eeevening vyerr.”

    Part of this had do do with drab and dowdy Communist realities, part of it had to do with steroid-abusing female athletes. But still.

    Interestingly, I recently looked at an old photo album from my kindergarten and elementary school days in early 1970s Poland. There were tons of photos from various shcool occasions dances and rallies, which were attended by many adults (teachers, moms).

    Looking at this album a few weeks ago, I was curious if the adult women in those photos were attractive in ways I obviously hadn’t appreciated whan I was 5 or 7 years old.

    They weren’t. Very few, if any, were fat or sloppy looking, but almost none had facial features that struck me as beautiful. The girls (my classmates) however, almost every single one, seemed very pretty.

    So perhaps the hot EE woman phenomenon came about with the Gen X-Gen Y cohort, for some reasons other than post WW2 selection?

    My personal opinion is that genes count for something — perhaps Slavs tend toward slenderness and fair features? But then again, EE is not uniformly fair (I am a Slav and have dark hair and dark eyes). Also, Balts and Hungarians aren’t even closely related to Slavs, and they too seem to enjoy the “hot EE woman” reputation.

    However, I thing the bigger factor here is the fact tha tEE women stay slim, and try harder to look attractive. I woudl guess that there would be very little difference in the overall desirablility of EE women in the 199s vs. American women in late 1950s/early 1960s.

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  7. I menat “I would guess that there would be very little difference in the overall desirablility of EE women in the 1990s vs. American women in late 1950s/early 1960s.”

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  8. haha, no doubt… Cynizen going for the default man insults.

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  9. roissy:

    As for his claim that all Russian men are alpha, I don’t buy it.

    You shouldn’t. I’m a Finn. Russia is right next door. I know many Russians, and I’ve been there many times. Russians are mostly not the bandits Dynamo Kiev says they are. Instead, they’re mostly regular folks working 9-to-5 jobs. Overall, the guys are no more alpha than they are in the West, except with respect to their women because they can afford to be. And that is so because Russian men are in the habit of dying young in great numbers than Russian women. There is a chronic man shortage. Russian women have to compete hard for high quality Russian men. A decent non-alcoholic of a man, even a beta, who can hold a decent job can expect to marry a much better looking woman than his Western counterpart. What Dynamo Kiev says about the superior looks and sexiness of the average Russian woman compared to Western Women is absolutely true.

    Maybe what he says is somewhat more applicable to the Ukraine, a much poorer country than Russia where life is bound to be harsher nowadays.

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  10. It sounds plausible, but don’t forget that as late as early ’90s, “Eastern European Woman” was synonymous with “ugly.” Do you remember a TV commercial in the US, beer I think, in the 1980s, that showed a mock Soviet fashion show and elephanitne models showcasing “svimm vyerr, eeevening vyerr.”

    That was from the 80s, during the Cold War. Anti-Russian propaganda during the Reagan era was very strong (think Rocky IV and Red Dawn), and came from a time when most people’s impressions of Russia came from Yakov Smirvov jokes (“In Russia, we have a saying…Rusian woman is like bus….that’s the whole saying!”). After the Cold war was over and communism fell and more Russian women actually came into America and us American men had a chance to actually meet some flesh and blood Russians, we were pretty surprised to find out they weren’t the fat, dowdy creatures we were told they were all through the 80s.

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  11. on October 6, 2008 at 2:45 pm ironrailsironweights

    Do they think the average American male is a geeky, slacker flabby pothead playing X-Box all day in his underwear and socks that’s afraid to talk to women? Or worse yet, is that actually the truth about what the average American male has become now and I’m just in denial about it?

    Heh, I’m half-convinced it is the truth.

    Peter

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  12. I went back to the original February 2008 comment of the month thread that gave birth to the gem that is this month’s comment of the month and found this comment by Gannon:

    Great comment. Really, there is nothing more funny than watching US women in their thirties and forties believing that they are hot.

    Honestly, it’s not that sad given how many guys buy into it too. Look at Ashton Kutcher with Demi Moore or A-rod chasing Madonna.

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  13. Master T,
    I too have thought about the Apatow movies and have read Whiskey’s take on them at his site. I’m not sure what to make of them, but you make a good point in brining them up. Of course, the question has to be, “who benefits?”. Somebody is gaining from having this POV out there. Obviously the moviehouses and stars, etc. But beyond that. I’m just not sure what, or who, that is.

    Also, as a fellow African American, I find it interesting that there’s no, nor historically that I can think of, any Beta-style equivalent in Black America. For whatever reason, brothas don’t go in for that kind of thing. Maybe our White brothas should take heed?

    As for American women, I agree, there is something to be said for the overall slovenly look there. And I attribute a lot of that to the simple fact that too many guys just accept that. Instead of putting their foot down and demanding some baseline standards. Clearly in the Black community,there’s some heavy sisters, and this is coming from a brotha that likes a gal w/some meat on her bones. But when you see an otherwise thin gal w/a gut, you know something’s wrong.

    I think the solution, in part, is to divest. Simply pull the plug on funding and attention, just you would in any other area of life when you feel you’re being mistreated. If a store mistreats you, you don’t go back. Same deal here.

    Holla back

    Salaam
    Mu

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  14. on October 6, 2008 at 3:02 pm Peregrine John

    Meat, yeah. Fat, less so. I prefer the fat to be strategically located. But generally, I’m with you, Mu. Divest and conquer, gentlemen. Basic economics.

    Though, for the record, I do know more than 2 or 3 Black Betas.

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  15. Though, for the record, I do know more than 2 or 3 Black Betas.

    I don’t want to put words in Mu’s mouth, but I think he means black betas as an all-out media movement. I mean, we’ve had some black betas in the media before from JJ Evans to Urkel to Carlton Banks, but hardly the all-out betaization propaganda campaign white guys have going in the media now from the likes of Kevin Smith, Judd Apatow and Joss Whedon.

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  16. PJ 14,
    Yea. I mean I know there’s some slightly divergent views wrt what the guys here consider beautiful and its all good insofar as I’m concerned. But me, I like a gal w/a curvy figure. Zaftig, not Zeppelin is my motto, and the problem, in ever increasing numbers, is that the American females of both colors, Black and White alike, are looking more and more like Goodyear, if you know what I mean.

    But on top of that, as T points out, there’s the lack of caring how they look, too that really adds insult to injury. In the hood for example, a lot of sistas wear these, the best way I can describe it is a fabric version of a showercap? I think its supposed to keep the woman’s hairdo from getting messed up in bed.

    Well, anyway, A LOT of sistas wear this outdoors, like it ain’t no thing at all. And that’s just for starters.

    Yesterday I was taking breakfast at one of the local coffee shops on Broad St, and in comes this sista w/a gut that could rival any Hell’s Angel. Disgusting! And the thing about it is that the woman is young too. So yea, my White brothers may be much more hardline about the Female Obsesity issue than I am, but even I gotta admit it, it IS an issue.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  17. — I find it interesting that there’s no, nor historically that I can think of, any Beta-style equivalent in Black America.

    How ’bout Carlton (“Fresh Prince of Bel Air”) or Urkel?

    — I too have thought about the Apatow movies and have read Whiskey’s take on them at his site. I’m not sure what to make of them

    Whiskey, I think it was, who drove home a good point about Apatow’s movies being the market’s response to lonely males’ demand for, essentially, romance fantasy.

    “Knocked Up” in particular can get one thinking. The baby thing goes beyond basic nerd wish-fulfillment, and actually promotes natalism. It also makes a case for a woman’s happiness in settling with a sub-Beta non-Provider!

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  18. on October 6, 2008 at 3:23 pm ironrailsironweights

    Some of the stereotyping of Russian/EE women as beautiful might just be because they’re viewed as relatively available to non-Alpha men.

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  19. T,
    You’ve summed up my thoughts perfectly, sir. That’s exactly what I was saying, and in reply to PA, yes, Urkel and Carlton were a part of Black sitcoms and so on, but they were more like props or foils for the main charaters, WHO WERE NOT BETA, than anything else.

    Also, I think Whiskey may be onto something in his analysis of these kinds of movies, and personally I thought that The 40 Year Old Virgin and Knocked Up were quite profound, on its face. I mean, think about it-we are having more and more 40 year old virgins, or at the least guys who are for all intents, disconnected to women, which means, family, community, and ultimately, nation. What can that mean, longterm? What impact can that have on social policy, national securty policy? Economic policy? No one talks about it, and even the movie by the same name treats it like a joke.

    As for Knocked Up, I think while its interesting to consider the male side of the coin when it comes to parental responsibility, the basic premise I just couldn’t accept-a super hottie winds up in bed w/dude in the flick to begin with?

    Nah…

    Holla back

    Salaam
    Mu

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  20. American females of both colors, Black and White alike, are looking more and more like Goodyear, if you know what I mean.

    You mean like the Michelin Man.

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  21. You mean like the Michelin Man.

    Actually, he meant Goodyear as in the huge Goodyear Blimp, but Michelin Man actually works too! 😀

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  22. on October 6, 2008 at 3:38 pm Peregrine John

    Michelin Man is good, too, Markku, but I think he was talking about the blimps. Either works for the imagery…

    Zaftig, not Zeppelin

    Geez, I’m laughing hysterically now. That’s perfect! We are entirely on the same page after all, Mu. My own motto is: curves good, rolls bad. Hip:waist ratio is a beautiful thing.

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  23. on October 6, 2008 at 3:39 pm Large Hadron Collider

    As a Large Hadron Collider (living the European dream!)
    I keep my game tight by overpowering lesser American cyclotrons every day. Of course by doing around 360 million protron laps a day, my abs are pretty tight too.

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  24. Master T,
    You interpreted my remarks correctly again, sir. Sure you’re not reading my mind? LOL!

    BTW: Excellent Race & IQ series you’re doing, and I think your arguments are very well laidout & presented. I take a differing tack, that those who wish to use the IQ argument to kick Black folks off Affirmative Action, must if they are intellectually honest, start by kicking off White Women, as it has been proven that males consistently have the higher IQs required for the top jobs at universities. Anything less than this only reveals White Males Scapegoating and Hatin’ on Black & Brown Folks.

    But that’s another subject. I’m just sayin’ though.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  25. Some of the stereotyping of Russian/EE women as beautiful might just be because they’re viewed as relatively available to non-Alpha men.

    I’m not so sure Pete. I think they are on average more attractive than American women but I’ve said this more times than I can remember and DK reinforces it. These women know what they want (financial stability) and they will do whatever it takes to get it using all the tools at their disposal. Beta providers are just easy prey.

    How ’bout Carlton (”Fresh Prince of Bel Air”) or Urkel?

    I always felt Carlton and Urkel were not examples of beta black men per se but black men devoid of their black heritage. They were parading as white and thus a subtle jab at the betaness of white men, the converse of the white man in black face.

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  26. Mu,

    My point in the Race and IQ series is that using Race and IQ figures as an argument to end entitlements for blacks is a waste of time since there are so many better and less volatile arguments against affirmative action that don’t involve IQ discussion at all, and that I think a lot of the policy justifications put forth by people who obsess over race and IQ has more to do with ego, namely getting acknowledged as being naturally smarter. Also, I am against affirmative action for women too of all races, including white.

    So I don’t think our views are as different as you may think.

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  27. Good point about Carlton being a foil for an Alpha character, and not a true example of betaization in Black culture.

    Lately you see more TV commercials with dopey Black husbands, but that’s about all.

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  28. I always felt Carlton and Urkel were not examples of beta black men per se but black men devoid of their black heritage. They were parading as white and thus a subtle jab at the betaness of white men, the converse of the white man in black face.

    Fuck, that’s brilliant. They are beta because they “act white,” meaning they are actually further examples of white betahood and just another example of white manhood being insulted. Never thought of it like that before.

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  29. PJ 22,
    Yea, see the thing for me is that a larger gal is OK, so long as her figure is clearly defined, as you noted in the HWR. Also, when, from the side profile, the woman’s gut is as far out there as her bosom, then that’s a problem. A man should be able to see his belt buckle when he looks down fully clothed; a woman’s hips and waist should be clearly defined fully clothed, and like I said, the bustline/gutline issue.

    You know what, I’d say, that a sturdy, well built lass is just what the doctor ordered…yea, that’s the ticket…

    Salaam
    Mu

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  30. I’m sensing the hypocrisy-meter off the wall.

    Would every responder using the word “fat”, please link to a photo of his own belly? An image of his last Form 1040 would suffice as an alternative.

    Thanks.

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  31. Russian women are more attractive because they tend to be slender. Their faces are inferior to western european women, in my taste at least. Too round or something.

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  32. Anony,
    Only if you’ll go first. Please make certain to send profile shot as we may assess the bustline to gutline ratio.

    Thank you.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  33. Russian women are more attractive because they tend to be slender. Their faces are inferior to western european women, in my taste at least. Too round or something.

    This may or may not be true, but I think we’re talking about in relation to US women, who tend to be inferior in both categories.

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  34. to # 32.
    you missed my point.
    I addressed hypocrisy, not chest dimensions.

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  35. Great comment.

    “You gain points for being tough, macho, solid, and rich. And not fake tough, like in America. You’d better be ready to knock out immediately anyone that gets in your way, as a minimum. ”

    So true. I have a few good friends from Russia, Bulgaria and Hungary. And I have met some guys at the top levels of those places.

    Most of them had some connection to the secret police, KGB, or were Olympic wrestlers, weightlifters or boxers (or sons of those).

    Harder than a coffin nail.

    For those guys, enjoying a little bit of torture, went a long way.

    I have also swooped some insanely beautiful girls in that scene.

    Well worth it, but watch your back and stay armed.

    Serious.

    – MPM

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  36. stay armed

    Are you being figurative or literal? Did you pack heat over there?

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  37. In terms of self esteem:
    . American women are the nouveau riche
    . EE women are the humbled (and newly poor) aristocrats from the socialist era.

    Their appearance and attitudes are merely reflections of their past and present status in the society.

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  38. don’t forget that as late as early ’90s, “Eastern European Woman” was synonymous with “ugly.”

    I don’t think this impression was simply anti-commie propaganda. The Eastern bloc’s entertainment industry did not have a Western audience to speak of; in most of the West, basically only the people who viewed arthouse movies knew what attractive Eastern Europeans looked like as emigration restrictions prevented large expatriate EE communities from being formed. If you watch old EE movies there are some gorgeous actresses there.

    Moreover, Communist culture did not generally seek to make celebrity women into sex objects. This was not because of any feminist concerns, but because Communism as practised in EE was in many ways sexually rather conservative. Cultural Marxism was crushed by Stalin in the 1920s, and the ideal society that the communists attempted to build from then on was rather Victorian in some respects.

    During the Cold War, athletes were basically the only EE women who could become international celebrities, and they were often steroid-stuffed freaks. This is where the stereotype mostly originates. Today’s EE athletes look a lot better.

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  39. There is something to Pupu #38. The end of Communism was cataclysmic for many in Eastern Europe. Think former Moscow national symphony flutist playing for spare change at a Berlin train station.

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  40. A Russian friend gave me a very interestign insight on Russian people in general. That they are a very smart people, but based on their past trials and tribulations much of their smarts is focused not in the direction of intellectualism but in the direction of cunning, strategy, hustling and street smarts. And they use this dog-eat-dog smarts in every discipline they’re in, not just the criminal enterprises. For example the con games a Russian street criminal uses utilizes the same meta-strategizing cunning that a Russian golddigging woman uses in seducing rich men which is the same meta-strategizing cunning that Russian chess champions use to outplay their opponents. This metastrategizing can be applied in everything from crime to chess, explaining why they are such a strong force in both areas. You really have to understand human nature to go toe-to-toe with Russian people, and thanks to our culture of political correctness and preferring convenient fictions over harsh truths, American men are usually woefully outclassed in the mental warfare department when faced with a Russian woman. I used to do Immigration Law and I encountered many an American beta who was cuckolded and blindsided by a hot young Russian bride that totally played him for a sucker.

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  41. JL – I agree with what you say, but I do think the need in the US to portray everything about the USSR as inferior, including its women, did play a major part back then. I vividly remember the real fear among the people that the USSR would end up winning the war of ideology.

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  42. on October 6, 2008 at 4:56 pm Turkeybaster115

    I would like to say that I have an american girl freind, and she’s great. I used to date a girl from the ukraine. She was a lot more physically fit, and became increasingly obsessed with her weight as she was more exposed to american society. Date them if you can stand the acents, but if they will live here with you in the states, you might as well date american women, as these solviets bitches will change with time.

    my 2 cents

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  43. Anony,
    There is no hypocrisy, so long as the man doesn’t have a Hell’s Angels style gut, women by and large do not care. Looks and beauty matter more to men, this is even true among gay men. Women like you really should recognize.

    T,
    Excellent points about Russia. Up till now I’ve been largely silent on the question of Eastern European women, largely because I can’t recall any direct experience I’ve had w/them, and I’ve yet to travel to Easter Europe myself.

    Having said that I have found that often the women of Czech Repubic, certain parts of Russia, Poland and so on tend to be quite voluptuous and busty. Of course, this is a very limited view as again, I’ve not been to these countries myself, but just wanted to note this limited observation nonetheless.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  44. To elaborate my point @ 38, capitalism benefits men disproportionally because men have more time to work in paid positions, and each working hour is paid more in a capitalist regime than in a socialist one. A transition to capitalism will therefore increase the relative power of men.

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  45. T #41, It would be impossible for me to say it any better than you just have. Your comment supports strongly what I have seen, experienced, and have stated consistently. If you want to pull a Russian girl, prepare yourself for machinations unlike any you’ve ever experienced with a woman on this earth. I think however, that they are gaining a reputation among so many men now that beta providers are being scared off and looking to the Far East as a replacement source.

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  46. Whatever the historical or cultural origin…its the disparity in fitness which primarily accounts for the perception of Eastern European (and western European) being more beautfiful then American women. The tenancy to be fat is across the board in the the US…not just with the women. If you’re fat…no clothing will really help you look sexy so the fashion argument is negligible. People way overgeneralize on this post. Ive traveled to many European destinations and yes the (young) women were on average seemingly better looking that the US. However, dissect the US: take for example New York (manhatten) and Miami. The women in these cities are stunning when compared to DC or other parts of the US. I’d say at least as good as any European city… as a bonus there is a variety of genetic types to choose from.

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  47. @T.
    Movie stars are not representative of the general population: the women you mention were exceptionaly attractive in their youth, have aged well through special care and look younger in the movies through make up and special lightning. I have seen some famous people in the real world, and they never look as good as they do on film. A few women are still attractive in their early thirties, after that they are only shadows of their former beings. Women past 35, aka past their childbearing age are only attractive through analogy, that is how much they still resemble a fertile female. The best looking women I have ever seen were by the way in Austria, Italy and Argentina. Although I admit that the average slavic girl looks pretty hot.

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  48. However, dissect the US: take for example New York (manhatten) and Miami. The women in these cities are stunning when compared to DC or other parts of the US. I’d say at least as good as any European city…

    STRONGLY disagree brother, at least as far as NY goes. Yes, NY women may be better than DC and other parts of America as far as weight and looks, but no way are they up there with the top European cities. NY, you must understand, has more hot women due to sheer population, the population density is insane. But per capita, I’d say we have some of the lowest per capita hotness out there. If you go to an ultra exclusive club or social circle filled with C and B-list models and athletes and celebs, you can surround yourself with beautiful people that help give the illusion the city is more beautiful than it actually is, but walking in the city day in and day out and taking public transportation will set you straight fast. In contrast when i was in Sweden and Amsterdam I didn’t have to go to an exclusive, trendy place to see hot women. They were everywhere, working as cashiers in cell phone stores, behind the counter at a 7/11, as street performers, drinking in local pubs and dives… I also met a lot of Latvians, and the women were consistently 9s. I don’t know what is in the water of that place Latvia, but I never met anyone from there that was an 8 or less.

    And yeah, NY may have more diversity, but I don’t see why that in and of itself is an automatic plus. There was diversity in Europe too, just not as much as in the US, but they were all universally hotter than what I saw here. Somali and Ethiopian Africans, Middle Eastern Women, a few Asian women, all gorgeous. Here, dozens upon dozens upon dozens of dozens of nationalities, but much more mediocre in average attractiveness. If i was single I’d rather have 5 races of hot chicks to choose from than dozens of races of mediocre chicks at my disposal.

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  49. Gannon, which comment of mine are you responding to?

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  50. Would every responder using the word “fat”, please link to a photo of his own belly?

    As someone who has cricitized the fatties in other threads: uhhh, have you considered the possibility that some of us have earned the right to criticize the average obese American by (ahem) working out ourselves? And no, I don’t need to prove myself to a random Anonmyous.

    For the record, I find obesity disgusting in guys, too; it’s just that I don’t really care, because it’s their problem, not mine.

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  51. Number 12

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  52. Do they think the average American male is a geeky, slacker flabby pothead playing X-Box all day in his underwear and socks that’s afraid to talk to women? Or worse yet, is that actually the truth about what the average American male has become now and I’m just in denial about it?

    At least among the guys I know, it is not far from the truth.

    Geeky? Check.
    Slacker? Check.
    Flabby? In most cases, check.
    Pothead? Nah.
    Playing X-Box? Nah, they seem to all have PS3s. 🙂
    Underwear and socks? Can’t speak for what they do and don’t wear when I’m not around.
    Afraid to talk to women? Not all, but a good number, yes. The rest seem to have gotten married and become good old provider betas.

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  53. on October 6, 2008 at 5:50 pm Usually Lurking

    I am with T on this one. Montreal, for instance, blows NYC outta the water.

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  54. on October 6, 2008 at 5:52 pm ironrailsironweights

    Hey Roissy,

    WTF happened to the comment I just tried to post in the “Recession means better sex” thread? It was a serious question, but got tagged as “awaiting moderation.” Please try to moderate it as soon as you can, because it is a serious question.

    Peter

    Like


  55. Agreed on Montreal.

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  56. STRONGLY disagree brother, at least as far as NY goes. Yes, NY women may be better than DC and other parts of America as far as weight and looks, but no way are they up there with the top European cities. NY, you must understand, has more hot women due to sheer population, the population density is insane. But per capita, I’d say we have some of the lowest per capita hotness out there.

    This is extremely true. Per capita, NY is one of the uglier major cities in the U.S. Even Northwest / Capitol Hill DC women are better. The Midwest is not as good, but the West and Southwest are better are better than NYC.

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  57. T 41: I used to do Immigration Law and I encountered many an American beta who was cuckolded and blindsided by a hot young Russian bride that totally played him for a sucker.

    True, but aren’t the guys who go East to buy their brides not betas but gammas? Aren’t they precisely the kind of pathetic sucker who’d fall for a scam artist (in these cases a hot Russian fox scam artist) anyway? I saw a doc on some guys doing the bridal buy-thing, and hoo-boy, losers to the last. Genuinely bottom of the barrel.

    Now, there are guys who don’t go the formal bridal purchase route, but they strike me as the same pathetic type: even warpigs won’t have them over here, so they head somewhere far away trolling for whores. And they get them.

    And the main comment about Russian men being alphas: poppycock. Alphas don’t drink themselves to death at third-world ages of Mortal Coil Shuffle-Off. Alkie alphas aren’t unheard of, but this is a mass phenomenon. Russian men are overwhelmingly betas heading gamma-ward, and probably get the shaft even worse than American betas.

    Drinking themselves into the grave probably provides them the only pleasure they have in life.

    Like


  58. Oh, and about Dinamo Kiev…methinks the boy was grousing sour grapily about the rep of EE women being easy pickings for foreigners. Doesn’t say much about the prowess of EE men if that’s true. DK was defending his compatriots, I think. EE guys aren’t desirable, have no rep anywhere as being such. Russian guys in particular seem to be targets of avoidance to their ladies. I don’t buy DK’s comment at all.

    I mean, c’mon:

    Your hot Russian girl will be grabbed and approached by no less than 15 men a day here, and half of the men will probably physically grab her and not accept no as an answer.

    Even discounting DK’s Slavic Imaginative Inflation Factor by 90%, that means hot Russian women are banged against their will 3 or 4 times a week, each time by a different guy.

    Sure.

    Like


  59. In contrast when i was in Sweden and Amsterdam I didn’t have to go to an exclusive, trendy place to see hot women. They were everywhere, working as cashiers in cell phone stores, behind the counter at a 7/11, as street performers, drinking in local pubs and dives…

    That is the barometer of a city’s talent pool. In NY where I live beautiful women don’t hold menial jobs. Their beauty is in too much demand for them not to leverage it for higher status and that is telling. That dynamic would not exist if the supply of beautiful women were greater. What you do have a lot of here is average to slightly above average women on a professional track. Stateside, I believe the women in Miami are on average hotter but the US as a whole doesn’t hold a candle to the depth of the talent abroad.

    I also met a lot of Latvians, and the women were consistently 9s. I don’t know what is in the water of that place Latvia, but I never met anyone from there that was an 8 or less.

    Latvian AND Estonian women, the best kept secret in all of EE. When I asked a friend, an American of Estonian heritage who married an Estonian woman (her beauty goes without saying), he postulated that the region is sort of a crossroads with a history of invasion and warfare that gave birth to the talent now apparent in the region.

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  60. Regarding the Apatow movies topic:

    I think most of us here agree with Whiskey in regard to his observations of the accelerating rate at which women are attempting to snag the brass ring of an Alpha (and sometimes falling off their horsies).

    If the future that Whiskey envisions is truly coming to pass, i.e., more and more women ignoring betas in favor of the upper 10-20 % alpha elites, he is correct that there will be large mass of men with “nothing to lose.” Such men could possibly be a disruptive force to the The Powers That Be.

    One of my friends has a theory that many of these new cultural signifiers, i.e., Apatow movies and other glorifications of Betatude, are being pushed by TPTB on the masses as a kind of Soma for the encroaching future.

    Could it be, to parahrase Marx, that Apatow is the opium of the betas?

    Like


  61. on October 6, 2008 at 6:43 pm a lokomotiv man, myself

    Not a pussy does not mean alpha. Dynamo’s point is that all men in Russia are not pussies. They are not however, as a statistical matter, ALL alphas. A lot of betas think alpha means “tough-guy”, and Roissy (who by his own admission is deep-down not a true thug) can verify this. (Incidentally, black men in America are also not pussies. They are also not all alphas). Dynamo makes great points about the nuances of textbook game being useless in Russsia. But his analysis does highlight the underlying theory behind “negging” – and just not being an accommodating pussy with SlavBabes, generally. I think the fundamental lesson is simple: bring your A-game with them; don’t ever be a pussy; in other words, swing for the fences, and don’t worry about “number-closing”. Number closing means I’ll take you to dinner later. Tonight, do a red bull and vodka, unleash the beast. Let the cards fall as they may.

    And if you see a gigantic hammer-wielding, tight black t-shirt wearing guy coming at you, get the fuck out of dodge.

    Simple enough.

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  62. Could it be, to parahrase Marx, that Apatow is the opium of the betas?

    Part of me thinks it is this, but part of me also wonders if its a brainwashing campaign as well, because at least in gentrified Brooklyn, the beta is being considered the superior catch. It’s increasingly common to see a very attractive hipsterette (they do exist, think Dita von Teese) with a pasty schlub that goes against everything we talk about as far as alphas, betas, evolution, etc. And no, they aren’t rich or powerful either. I think a positive reinforcing loop is forming in our pop culture – beta glorification in media, reality among media savvy big city women starts reflecting the beta glorification, which in turn leads to more beta glorification media…and so on and so on.

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  63. on October 6, 2008 at 7:09 pm levi johnston

    Interesting comments by PA in this thread, a commenter whose rants I usually distaste.

    I live with a 1.5 generation Polish chick – born there went to HS in the US. While her body is impressive: 5’7, blonde, slender with C breasts, her facial features are very sharp (perhaps some genetic remnant of the huns?). When I see her during the week in adidas shorts and a shirt, she’s a 6 or a 7 but when she gets dolled-up in heels, make-up, etc. it’s easy to see how a beta or someone with a buzz might look past her face and think she’s an 8 or a 9..

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  64. I’m not convinced Apatow (it’s really only him) is a Powers That Be conspiracy. Against him is Jeffrey Wells, of Hollywood Elsewhere, who laments that the guys are unattractive and wants Josh Hartnett and Ryan Reynolds types. Many other semi-metrosexual or “sorta-gay” types have pushed this as well. And pretty much every Joss Whedon show has the uber-Alpha male shoving around in one form or another betas to get to the women. Then there is the vampire-porn stuff for women, the “Twilight” and “True Blood” stuff.

    Gays (wildly overrepresented) and women in entertainment constantly promote a more feminine viewpoint. Desiring hard Alpha men and hating the beta guys. Katherine Heigl’s big objection to “Knocked Up” was that the Seth Rogen character was out of her league, as a beautiful woman (w/o makeup, she’s ordinary). [Note btw the specialty of Gossip Mags having unflattering pics of female “beautiful” celebs.]

    Other than Apatow, almost no entertainment pushes “beta” guys, and Apatow himself snagged just a D-list hottie. “Chuck” is probably the only significant show that deals with beta-tude: a guy derailed from a successful career, with a hottie pretending to be his girlfriend, who makes him seem instantly more successful. Even though in reality she’s wayyyyyy out of his league.

    As far as deeper patterns go, as women and children are for Alpha men, the betas won’t care much about them. Eroding public consensus for education, childcare, maternity leave, daycare etc.

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  65. Except as far as i can see, Apatow, Rogen and Michael Cera get celebrated way more on magazine covers, internet buzz and print articles and puff pieces than Hartnett and Ryan Reynolds. Nick and Norah and Juno and Pineapple Express related commercials and articles are in my face nonstop. I can’t even recall the last movie Reynolds or Hartnett were in, or what they’re next movie is.

    Like


  66. Mu’Min:
    Also, as a fellow African American, I find it interesting that there’s no, nor historically that I can think of, any Beta-style equivalent in Black America. For whatever reason, brothas don’t go in for that kind of thing. Maybe our White brothas should take heed?

    mu, i’m currently reading ‘black rednecks, white liberals’ by thomas sowell on the suggestion of T. outstanding read so far. basically, the current afro-american culture is directly descending from the scottish borderlands culture of the colonial era. this culture died out among white people and was dying out among black people until the 1960’s welfare reforms, which has done more to destroy black men’s lives than the kkk ever could. you’re a smart guy. when you get a chance, read up on this subject. urkels and carltons, as a rule, can’t exist in black redneck culture.

    I take a differing tack, that those who wish to use the IQ argument to kick Black folks off Affirmative Action, must if they are intellectually honest, start by kicking off White Women, as it has been proven that males consistently have the higher IQs required for the top jobs at universities. Anything less than this only reveals White Males Scapegoating and Hatin’ on Black & Brown Folks.

    1) the gap in performance isn’t as great between white men and white women, as it is between blacks and whites, on average, of course. 2) also, white men have more of a vested interest in providing for the good of white women since they probably know or are related to a white woman they love. 3) white women don’t need affirmative action as much to be represented well at most elite undergrad institutions.

    that said, out of principle, i wouldn’t have a problem getting rid of affirmative action for all. the greatest drop in black poverty was occurring before the civil rights initiatives of the 1960’s according to dr. thomas sowell. after a temporary period of disruption, black people and women, as a whole, would adjust for the better without entitlement programs. some would fare worse, but the good of the many have to outweigh the good of the few.

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  67. Master T,
    Ah, I see exactly what you’re saying now. Well, because so many White Males have seriously lost their mojo, they are incapable of being straight about things, and this is deeply problematic on a host of levels, effecting public policy, demography, and just overall happiness.

    For my part, I take White Male concerns seriously, one because they are fellow American citizens, and two because they are my brothers of another color. And clearly, the first and foremost problem they’re having is they don’t bust nearly enough nuts as they should, this is why I give thanks for the likes of and others to help these men out.

    The analysis on Urkel and Carlton, etc, is excellent, I agree. Deep.

    Holla back

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  68. T 61: What’s a gamma?

    Um, the letter after beta?

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  69. Oh, and before delta. That too.

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  70. 12 T

    Honestly, it’s not that sad given how many guys buy into it too. Look at Ashton Kutcher with Demi Moore or A-rod chasing Madonna.

    There’s immense propaganda in the US telling guys that. It’s everywhere. It’s considered the politically correct viewpoint — that older women are hot. And that younger ones are just too silly and unseasoned to appeal to any right thinking older guy, supposedly, who’s subject to fashionable and lefty influences anyway.

    If there’s one thing you can absolutely count on, it’s women pulling out their biggest and best emotional snootiness and disdain guns around the mention of a guy their age going after girls say a decade younger. It’s quite amusing actually.

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  71. Meh, I think the introduction of the term gamma is pretty unnecessary. Seems beta covers it pretty well.

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  72. Gannon @ 52:

    Okay, I understand now. I think you misunderstood, I’m not saying that older women are really as hot as they think they are, just that it’s not as delusional for them to think they are as hot as they have ever been thanks to the young desperate betas out there who will actually wife them up. Ashton Kutcher is the Hollywood version, but there are plenty of real life versions too. Political correctness has it so that men are actually ashamed to date 10 years younger in this country, but feels almost no stigma for dating 10 years older. I wasn’t saying that older women are really as hot as they think they are but that you can’t blame them for believing so when a growing number of guys actually treat them that way. That’s what’s really sad, how low men’s standards have sunk.

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  73. I’ve had direct experience with Russians female and male, both here and abroad, in bed and out of bed. It’s a big topic — look at all those fat Russian novels, then multiply that length to deal with American/Russian relationships. In general, the men are more macho. I didn’t find the degree of gangsta tough mentioned in the winning comment, but even intellectuals, artists, professors, and poets are more old-school macho than men here. It would be hypermacho, probably, in construction, business, backdoor politics. I imagine it to be more like 1930s to 1950s in the US, where you had to hold a drink and throw and take a punch to matter. Russian women, speaking to me and perhaps bullshitting me, said the Russian men are more direct, more passionate and more upfront about what they want. To my face, they said they liked American men better, who were less vain, less brutal — we generally don’t beat our women folk — and more in control. We’re also supposed to have bigger dicks, but that’s another species of Russian hustler bullshit, I suspect.
    Russian women? Killer pussy. Well known fact. They’ll work you with their ultra feminine wiles. Oddly like Vivian Leigh in Gone With the Wind. Moody. Sexual. Pouty. Girly. Brooding. Poetic. Dramatic. They really know how to fuck — no puritanical frigidity, no hang ups, no chilliness. They oddly lack finesse, though — not that I’ve scored enough of that killer pussy to say definitively, but they tend to be really enthusiastic and kind of clumsily so. You can get hurt if you’re not careful. That said, there’s great tenderness, too. Poetry, maybe. But they’re rough — not like Western European girls — the Russians always have this combination of crudeness and refinement.
    Also, if you don’t find your inner iron, if you don’t bring a strong backbone and a willingess to stand your ground, throw shit around and meet operatic drama with even greater blasts, you’ll be eaten alive. You’ll still be eaten alive anyway, but you’ll get a little more respect from her. It took me a long time to realize this; you really have to be a fucking asshole sometimes, or they’ll make you a tiny little smudge on the floor.
    One of my acquaintances tried to threaten suicide when his Russian doll was about to leave. She though he was just stupid and weak when told me about it.
    It’s like living in a Dostoyevsky novel. I always thought old Fyodr was a little operatic in his scenes, but it’s just sober realism — the outburts, the soulful declarations, the wild passions. All before breakfast.
    And they’re shrewd, both males and females, to echo the excellent points about intellegence brought to bear on survival. They’re hustlers, both sexes. They have to be; they live in much tougher society, and unless they’re oligarchs, have a greater degree of daily struggle that most people can imagine. We live in Fat City; most middle class or even blue collar people here don’t have to live on their wits. So, yeah, streetwise. (I notice that blacks and Russians have an affinity for each other that seems deep and sincere and not just digging each other’s exoticism). I’ve seen some russo-yank marriages work well. Alot of the time they don’t, but its more about expectations and culture that ripoffs — at least, now, in my experience. I’ve heard of others disentegrate because the woman used the guy. Some others are directed clearly by women past their prime — but still, very beautiful — settling down for a guy several years older. They seem happy — don’t discount the pleasures of security and domesticity on the one side or the pleasures of nailing some 35 year old when you’re 60. Puts the roses back in those flabby old cheeks.
    And he’s lucky. Because he won’t have to look at her ass gradually balloon in a pair of sweatpants or hear her thudding round the kitchen in flips. Ever.
    Anyway, these are large generalizations. But I’ve never regretted a moment spent with a Russian girl, even when she drove me closer to insanity than I’d care to admit. I bear my scars with pride.

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  74. Freak Show 68 —

    Affirmative action for women should end immediately.

    It’s an absolute no brainer.

    Politically however it’s a very different story.

    Like


  75. Mr. Primitive 74 —

    Great read — practically poetry.

    So I take it you haven’t ended up with a Russian chick yet? Are you still headed back to that well?

    Like


  76. Mr. Primative,

    I enjoyed your description of Russian pussy, especially the Vivian Leigh comparison. There is so much to be said for the depiction of female sexuality and feminine wiles in some of these older movies such as Gone with the Wind.

    What about Clio? Isn’t she Canadian?

    Like


  77. Mr. Primitive that is…

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  78. 77 Racer X:

    What about Clio?

    Indeed.

    What ABOUT Clio?

    I ask myself that every day…

    Like


  79. 74 Mr Primitive,

    great stuff! thanks for sharing!

    Pupu

    Like


  80. freak show 68 —

    white women don’t need affirmative action as much to be represented well at most elite undergrad institutions.

    They don’t need it at all for that. In fact there are larger percentages of women attending and graduating college today than men. However, the diff. is mainly or entirely at the non elite colleges.

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  81. Tsaid:I always wonder how our Judd Apatow movies showing betas like Michael Cera and Seth Rogen as the face of the modern American male fare in Eastern Europe and other places where being macho is still king? Do they think the average American male is a geeky, slacker flabby pothead playing X-Box all day in his underwear and socks that’s afraid to talk to women

    Who would want to live in that type of enviroment? I don’t. You would always have to look over your shoulder. Even most projects in America are not that bad.

    Like


  82. on October 6, 2008 at 11:16 pm ironrailsironweights

    Then there is the vampire-porn stuff for women, the “Twilight” and “True Blood” stuff.

    Well I’m not a woman, and I enjoy watching True Blood. It doesn’t seem like a chick show to me.

    Like


  83. Freak 68,
    Yea, I’ve read Sowell’s Black Rednecks & White Liberals, and found it to be a very good and thought-provoking read. I remember in particular the point you raised about Black folks adopting the behavioral norms of the Scots, and as well, the high-achieving nature of the Paul Lawreance Dunbar school in DC, despite it being at the height of Jom Crow and having a fraction of the funding today’s public schools get. Of course, as he notes, to point something like this out in our time is to risk one’s job. So they don’t.

    As for Affirmative Action, the point is that White Women, as a bloc, have far and away more influence in just about every sector of American life, far and away than African Americans ever could; NOW is far stronger and influential and organization for special interest group lobbying than the NAACP ever could be. My point is simply that if White guys were really serious about getting rid of Affirmative Action, they’d start w/the group most likely to directly challenge them for jobs and status, and for the most part that ain’t Black folks, its White women. But the reason why they’ll be no such clamoring, the Summers incident easily comes to mind, is because its y’all mama, daughter, sister, wife and potential hottie you trying to put in the Three Point Stance. I can dig it, but like I said to Ryder, some of us Darkies are smart enough to get the joke. So we can cut the crap if we really serious. Sure, a good number of Black folk probably don’t belong where they are-but at least as many, and if not more, White women really don’t belong there either, getting limited and valuable monies to create intellectual ghettos, who go virtually unchallenged and then go on to have a hand in actually shaping public policy, again, virtually unchallenged. I defy you to come up with a challenge to White Feminism in that comes anywhere near close to that of Affirmative Action, which really should be called Anti-Black and Possibly Brown Affirmative Action, because that’s what so many White Mals really mean when they utter the term.

    Holla back

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  84. chicnoir 82–

    There are many places where macho is still king where it’s better to live as a male, and certainly as an upper professional male, than the US.

    France and most of the rest of Western Europe, x Britain (too much like the US) and maybe x Sweden too. Maybe. Not so macho but the pulchritude! Latin America. Hong Kong.

    Single for any kind of alpha isn’t bad in the US, though it’s better in Western Europe and Latin America. However, America has the worst marital deal in the world, rivaled only elsewhere in the anglosphere.

    American men, particularly alphas, should wage a marriage strike. Resist altogether for a long time. Live together for awhile, or for a long time, instead. If you really must, and want kids, then get a serious prenup, made to look like living together if she decides to split, with joint custody and no child support payments, instead split direct support and split care.

    THAT would change things.

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  85. So perhaps the hot EE woman phenomenon came about with the Gen X-Gen Y cohort, for some reasons other than post WW2 selection?

    One must remember that the post-war children of Eastern Europe grew up deprived when compared to their counterparts in Western Europe. I suspect that development lagged considerably in the Communist Bloc, and didn’t meet “decent” standards until the 1970s. Hell, Russia’s development in the 70s was fueled by Nixon delivering grain so they wouldn’t starve and oil sales during the petro-boom of that period.

    Honestly, it’s not that sad given how many guys buy into it too. Look at Ashton Kutcher with Demi Moore or A-rod chasing Madonna.

    Hollywood is admittedly not mainstream and filled with bizzare traits, but it does lead one to question why these men are choosing non-standard choices when they have the ability to bang whatever they want.

    Also, as a fellow African American, I find it interesting that there’s no, nor historically that I can think of, any Beta-style equivalent in Black America.

    Jude Apatow grew up in Syosset, a rather heavily upper middle class Jewish neighbourhood on Long Island. It seems that these beta movies are really a proxy for the lives of neurotic Jewish males.

    And I attribute a lot of that to the simple fact that too many guys just accept that. Instead of putting their foot down and demanding some baseline standards.

    The girl that I’m currently “dating” admittedly reeks of this slovenly look. I could demand that she go out and update her wardrobe, that would require her spending money that she may not have to go shopping, and she may not feel comfortable in skirts and high heels all the time, and it would destroy the shit out of her already low self-esteem. I’d feel guilty for that, but I’d imagine that many other men would feel somewhat remorseful about doing that.

    OTOH, I’d imagine that some men fear that “fixing” their girlfriends would turn them into targets for better men…

    JJ Evans to Urkel to Carlton Banks

    Those three as black betas managed to score more girls than their white beta counterparts. Hell, even Urkel had Myra who was better looking than Laura…

    the basic premise I just couldn’t accept-a super hottie winds up in bed w/dude in the flick to begin with?

    Like Half Sigma, I thought the movie was stupid because in real life, she would have had an abortion or raised the child as a single mother.

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  86. Doug,
    Although I disagree w/the degree to which White Males will suffer directly or indirectly at the hands of Blacks and even Browns, I do most definitely agree w/your views on marriage and child custody, divorce, etc, as noted above.

    I think a “marriage strike”, while a good idea, is in a sense already happening, but its not just with the men but of course, the women, too.

    Question: what do you make of all these single men, virtually cutoff from the rest of society? What can that mean in public policy terms?

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  87. True Blood is done by Alan Ball, the gay guy behind “American Beauty” and “Six Feet Under,” based on the “Sookie Stackhouse” novels by some gal whose name I can’t remember.

    Yes, it is seriously chic-gay porn. Hunky guy who can grant immortality, with “tortured” background who beats up or kills guys in front of his chick? Who has sort of icky vampire sex with her? Who has no family, no inconvenient in-laws, brothers, sisters, other annoying relatives, or any sort of obnoxious, frat-boy friends, or loser slackers, and a dull, boring job?

    Yeah. It’s gay-female porn. No guy in that show is even remotely realistically male, any more than Milla Jojovich movies where stuff blows up is realistic in depicting women.

    As for AA, men’s support of it is directly proportional to the point where their wives and daughters benefit. Given our drift to soft polygamy, it’s a no-brainer that about 37.5% of the population (White Males) are going to be against it. Particularly since AA means an illegal immigrant from Mexico is instantly qualified for all sorts of special goodies, in the informal alliance of a few Alpha White guys (Edwards, SF Mayor Gavin Newsome) plus White Women, Blacks, and Mexicans. [Asian guys are generally lumped in with White guys, both are suing, AGAIN, UC for being discriminated against.]

    In a Depression, you’ll see something analogous to the Bonus Army marching for their own deal, mostly White guys, and getting suppressed just like they did. AA hurts White men, so with women chasing Alphas, there will be an ugly struggle to kill it. It will stick around, but that battle will only increase the hostility betas are going to express to the winners.

    Ashton Kutcher is the exception, and he married Moore because both are at heart bad actors who are excellent producers and business people. Ryan Reynolds married Scarlett Johannson, most of these actors screw everything in sight, get married at around 40 to a woman ten years younger, who is a producer, keeps things grounded. Attractive but not bombshell. Charlie Sheen, Downey Jr, etc. all fit that mold.

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  88. Mu’minsaidAnony,
    There is no hypocrisy, so long as the man doesn’t have a Hell’s Angels style gut, women by and large do not care. Looks and beauty matter more to men, this is even true among gay men. Women like you really should recognize

    Stomach is the most talked about male body part behind *wink wink* when women talk amongst themselves about men. Don’t fool yourself. Most ugly men are bitter for a reason.

    Like


  89. Mu’min 87 —

    Although I disagree w/the degree to which White Males will suffer directly or indirectly at the hands of Blacks and even Browns,

    Where does this come from?

    Like


  90. We’re also supposed to have bigger di*Ks, but that’s another species of Russian hustler bullshit, I suspect.

    A mandingo is not necessary if you have the basics down pack. I really don’t get why women make a big issue out of it. I mean if it’s well below average then okay, but average is not a problem.

    Like


  91. mr. Primative said:They really know how to fuck — no puritanical frigidity, no hang ups, no chilliness

    They have schools for that.

    (I notice that blacks and Russians have an affinity for each other that seems deep and sincere and not just digging each other’s exoticism).
    Very true from my experience.

    Like


  92. t said:I think a lot of the policy justifications put forth by people who obsess over race and IQ has more to do with ego, namely getting acknowledged as being naturally smarter
    you’re right.

    Mu said:Also, as a fellow African American, I find it interesting that there’s no, nor historically that I can think of, any Beta-style equivalent in Black America. For whatever reason, brothas don’t go in for that kind of thing. Maybe our White brothas should take heed

    Blk men who may be betas in the eyes of some:
    1. Lupe Fiasco
    2. Kayne West
    3. Pharrel
    4. Mos Def
    5. Talib Kweli

    I always felt Carlton and Urkel were not examples of beta black men per se but black men devoid of their black heritage. They were parading as white and thus a subtle jab at the betaness of white men, the converse of the white man in black face.

    I’m not sure I understand your point. Are they betas because they are not thugs?

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  93. I always felt Carlton and Urkel were not examples of beta black men per se but black men devoid of their black heritage.

    I find it interesting that black men who don’t “act black” are supposedly devoid of black heritage. I assure you that those of us who act similarly aren’t devoid of our black heritage…

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  94. DA, I don’t get that either and I can waiting on a response for clarifacation. I guess Michelle Obama and Condi are devoid of blk heritage because they are not baby mamas on welfare with 5 children.

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  95. @ Chic 93

    if Pharrel = beta, sign me up 😉

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  96. DA, I don’t get that either and I can waiting on a response for clarifacation. I guess Michelle Obama and Condi are devoid of blk heritage because they are not baby mamas on welfare with 5 children.

    Oh geez, will you get off it already? Part of the obvious joke about Carlton, wrongfully or rightfully, was that he stereotypically ‘acted white” and “danced white.” It has nothing to do with saying that not being a thug makes you inauthentically black. Will smith’s character was not a thug in the least on the show, but it was obviously implied that he was more “authentically” black culturewise that Carlton. That was the show’s obvious intention. Pointing out the show’s obvious intention does not make the messenger racist.

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  97. 94 The Omega Man:

    I assure you that those of us who act similarly aren’t devoid of our black heritage…

    You’re not kidding.

    As soon as I saw the decor in the background of your picture I knew you were without a doubt Haitian. 🙂

    Like


  98. There are many places where macho is still king where it’s better to live as a male, and certainly as an upper professional male, than the US.

    In theory, it may be good if you’re a macho male, but is it good for your highly intelligent and skilled daughter? I’d question if such a macho environment is good for men like myself.

    STRONGLY disagree brother, at least as far as NY goes.

    It’s interesting to note that my trips to Boston and SFO have showed that NYC has spoiled me with beautiful high end women, and Nassau County’s hot young white women with nails have ruined me.

    Admittedly, what explains the differences in hotness between American and European women? I won’t even entertain reasons why, but there has to be some explanation. SWPL New York isn’t filled with fat whites, nor is San Francisco, so something must explain the difference…

    I am with T on this one. Montreal, for instance, blows NYC outta the water.

    Another reason to visit Montreal besides the Metro. Allegedly, the white girls love black guys up there… 🙂

    Part of me thinks it is this, but part of me also wonders if its a brainwashing campaign as well, because at least in gentrified Brooklyn, the beta is being considered the superior catch.

    Will this spread to the rest of America or will this remain limited to some bizzare subculture?

    BTW, Dita von Tesse is not attractive…

    I notice that blacks and Russians have an affinity for each other that seems deep and sincere and not just digging each other’s exoticism

    When I go railfan or walk around Brighton Beach or Sheepshead Bay, I note the dirty looks from the Russians…

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  99. @96- I am in love with Pharrel but he is considered a beta by some. I forgot to add Puffy and Damon Dash.

    Um T, again what is sterotypically acting white??

    Will smith’s character was not a thug in the least on the show, but it was obviously implied that he was more “authentically” black culturewise that Carlton

    Yes because will was dumb as a bag of rocks and Carlton got good grades. How much did Will Smith’s character know about black history if he was “authentically black”? he grew up in the hood & his father was not around*. I guess that is all you need to the authentically blk.

    Pointing out the show’s obvious intention does not make the messenger racist

    Who did I call racist T????

    Have I ever called anyone on this blog racist???

    As I’ve said many times before, there are 38 million of us in this country and we don’t always agree or have the same experiences. Please don’t put words in my mouth.

    Ignorance is not always equal to racism!

    Like


  100. Women in Montréal(more so) and Toronto are thinner than American women but not better looking.

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  101. @DA-m Naw they just mean mug like the guys in the hood. Do you speak to them or wave?

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  102. You said:

    I guess Michelle Obama and Condi are devoid of blk heritage because they are not baby mamas on welfare with 5 children.

    when you accuse people of thinking that black heritage consists of being a baby mama on welfare with 5 kids, how is that different than accusing them of being a racist? Are you saying someone that associates black culture with beingon welfare with 5 kids is somehow NOT racist?

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  103. Women in Montréal(more so) and Toronto are thinner than American women but not better looking.

    Sorry, they are.

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  104. We must agree to disagree on the women thing T.

    My comment about Condi and Michelle was different than your comment on Will Smith’s chracter.

    Like


  105. T said:when you accuse people of thinking that black heritage consists of being a baby mama on welfare with 5 kids, how is that different than accusing them of being a racist?

    Part of the obvious joke about Carlton, wrongfully or rightfully, was that he stereotypically ‘acted white” and “danced white.” It has nothing to do with saying that not being a thug makes you inauthentically black. Will smith’s character was not a thug in the least on the show, but it was obviously implied that he was more “authentically” black culturewise that Carlton

    Some people are very ignorant when it comes to African-Americans and AAculture. There is a difference between ignorace and racism. If you went to a small rural town in China and a Chineese woman, who has had no contact with blk people besides what she has seen on tv, asked you, how many baby mama’s do you have, would the person be ignorant or racist?

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  106. Do you speak to them or wave?

    No, I usually just either wait on the platform, sit on the bench, or walk about minding my own business.

    Like


  107. Thanks for the complimentary comments on my comment.
    I don’t pretend to understand, or speak for, race relations between blacks and Russians, just my limited experience. For sure, Russians are often vocal racists, particularly the first wave Russian Jews who came over in the late 1970s in pre-Guiliani NYC. My theory is that it’s mostly generational, apart from the various nationalist/skinhead streaks that run wide and deep. I’d hate to be a Chechen or Muslim in St. Pete’s or Moscow or a smaller city up north. At the same time, among people under 30 who are more cosmopolitan, yeah, I see some real affinities. Kind of a rhyme. It’s worth noting that uptight biz-schooled American expats used to call Russians (sorry for the word) “sno nigs.”
    For me, the main difference between European women, east and west and their American sisters is … fuck, where to begin? but it’s primarily about the demonization of pleasure here. I spent a lot of time in a lot of cafes and bars (and not enough in bed) arguing the opposite point of view, that America isn’t just a Puritanical Anglo-Saxon ice palace with a pervy underside. But, the longer I’m around and the more I travel and the more I fuck, I have to say: they’re right. American women (sorry, again, I know there are a lot of my fellow countrywomen who can prove me wrong, and bless you every one) BUT a lot of them don’t take pleasure in eating, in reading, in listening to good music and when it comes to fucking and their bodies, they’re corkscrew twisted. It’s all homework and duties and tasks and goals. They feel strange about their cunts, the shape of their ass, the smell of their armpits, how they sweat, the flatness or lack thereof of their bellies. (for contrast, one French guy I know makes sure his girlfriend doesn’t take a shower for a day or two before they get it on — do you say eww to that or hmm? try it sometime, but only with someone you really like)
    For me the main problem is, the Americans want to lay some pop-psychological wrapping paper on the encounter, or worse, they want to unburden their complexes on you when another woman from another country is content to smoke or to eat a strawberry or to, I dunno, admire the angle of sunlight coming across the bed. And these Americans generally do this in a voice that’s hopelessly nasal and flat, like that archetypal screechy schoolmarm Hillary Clinton yakking away about fuckall. (I’ll take a heavy, husky EE accent any day of the week, no matter how thick). I don’t exempt myself as an American man from this fucked up relationship with pleasure, either. But classically, Latin cultures looked to regulate pleasure, not to ban it, not to exorcise it and not to worship it, either. And while it’s a practice more aimed at that realized, it seems like a better way to try to live than either excess or denial or, more usually, some stupid binging because you’re keeping all that under a lid. Russians, however, are as fucked up as we are in relationship to pleasure; they just approach it from the opposite extreme a lot of the time. So, there’s a nice intersection between our two delapidating superpowers.

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  108. Mr. Primative —

    Alright, as a prior praise you to the skys guy, and one prepared to do so again on the basis of reading a little bit into your post, I first have to SLAP YOU IN THE FACE.

    What’s up with this NO PARAGRAPHS shit??? Ain’t gonna fly.

    Give us a freakin break.

    Break it up in other words.

    If you can’t figure out where, throw a dart. Just break it up.

    ‘Kay???

    Like


  109. 108 Mr. Primitive:

    BUT a lot of them don’t take pleasure in eating, in reading, in listening to good music and when it comes to fucking and their bodies, they’re corkscrew twisted. It’s all homework and duties and tasks and goals. They feel strange about their cunts, the shape of their ass, the smell of their armpits, how they sweat, the flatness or lack thereof of their bellies.

    And Elizabeth wept.

    for contrast, one French guy I know makes sure his girlfriend doesn’t take a shower for a day or two before they get it on — do you say eww to that or hmm?

    I will confess that I do find the musky aromas of a day-without-bathing vagina to be arousing sometimes. Must be the pheremones or something. (This only applies to women of color. For some reason they tend to have pleasant odors downstairs as opposed to the more “sharp” aroma of her whiter sisters. Just my observation along with those of other men I’ve spoken to)

    But classically, Latin cultures looked to regulate pleasure, not to ban it, not to exorcise it and not to worship it, either.

    I am so grateful for my mixed race heritage. My father is a tense, stick-up-his-ass WASP. If it weren’t for the earthy, pleasure-loving relatives on my mother’s side of the family, I shudder at the thought of who I might be today.

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  110. T,

    “Are you being figurative or literal? Did you pack heat over there?”

    Both.

    And I kept it off safety, cause a lot of fools hate me.

    – MPM

    Like


  111. Based on my own experiences with Russian chicks, I definitely do sense the connection with blacks that Primitive mentions. There is a respect I felt from Russian chicks that I felt they didn’t give to the more betaized American white guys. VKs recent story on Russian chicks seems to lend more credibility to this theory too.

    Like


  112. Mr. Primitive 108 —

    Puritanical Anglo-Saxon ice palace

    This is such prefab utter crap.

    The issue in America is all about Feminist politics. Which are way more huge here than anywhere else on earth.

    Jews are some of the worst about the politics. Catholics are often the iceist. Sure some of them break big and hot, esp. Italians, but others don’t, esp. some Irish.

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  113. Mu’Min 84:
    Sure, a good number of Black folk probably don’t belong where they are-but at least as many, and if not more, White women really don’t belong there either, getting limited and valuable monies to create intellectual ghettos, who go virtually unchallenged and then go on to have a hand in actually shaping public policy, again, virtually unchallenged.

    this is a point we simply & continually disagree on. i don’t believe white women need as much affirmative action as black people do. you seem to suggest otherwise. i’ve posted a link on T’s site about how more than 2 out of 3 black undergrads to elite universities would have likely not been admitted sans affirmative action (based on a comprehensive study of academic profiles, esp. standardized test scores, of these universities). i strongly doubt that such a correlation is shown to this degree among white women.

    having said that, we agree more than we disagree. i thought most of what you said in post 84 was on the mark, except maybe that the NOW is stronger than the NAACP. basically, i think women and black people would be better off in the long term without affirmative action or the welfare state. nothing has been worse for black men, in particular, than the welfare state.

    Like


  114. Hey roissy, how about a comment loser award? I would vote for myself and you.

    Like


  115. Chic Noir 87-
    Two words in response: Stanley Crouch. Gets more ass per capita than a toilet seat. Three wives, White, Black Latina, hit the Trifecta. He makes Yoda look handsome. Holla.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  116. Never Fake The Funk With A Nasty Dunk

    On Vaginal Aromas…

    I don’t like a lot of perfume on a woman. Messes up the signal. I don’t know if I would so far as Pierre from Paris, but but yea, excessive washing, perfuming and douching is no good. Nothing is better than a woman flush in her Ovulation, giving off aromas that she’s fir for the mounting.

    Amin.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  117. on October 7, 2008 at 12:52 pm yourfavoritewritersfavoritewriter

    The observation about eastern europe was very astute. id like to note that the generic american meat head however would do better in eastern europe than the average ee brute. that is bc if dominating physical appearance and disregard for manners is valued, ur average ee caveman is just working out with standard gym equipment. ur nj guido or midwest hs football jockey has superior access to workout regimes. they have access to all sorts of whey protein regimes, roids, and just a general superior workout culture. our country is divided by the beautiful, in shape, clever and the have nots. its just much more invisible and easily penetrated. that caveat aside, ur standard bar in belmar, nj prizes hair gel, tanning salons and being overly meatheaded.

    if you take your nj guido and place him in an ee european city, he’d do better than if you took the ee guy and placed him in bemar. not to say the ee guy would do bad, but he just wouldnt be as dominant.

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  118. At the same time, among people under 30 who are more cosmopolitan,

    That’s probably true across any place and time. Young people often are “cosmopolitan” because they have no stake in society, are less likely to have children (which makes one more conservative), are still in some stage of youthful rebellion against their parents, and haven’t had as many jading experiences with “the other.”

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  119. When I go railfan or walk around Brighton Beach or Sheepshead Bay, I note the dirty looks from the Russians…

    Russians don’t have our kind of PC to any degree, which means they are allowed to be openly racist. Russians call Georgians and other Caucasians “black asses” (chernyi rech) and black people “negros” (nigr). Large Russian cities are infested with skinhead gangs who beat up dark-skinned people which crimes are not very enthusiastically investigated by the militsiya.

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  120. 72 T:

    “Gamma” should have been “omega”, the term used to describe males at the bottom of the hierarchy. Betas are second, not bottom. If beta was good enough in itself then why the distinction between greater and lesser betas here?

    So edit the above and the term stands.

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  121. @104

    Co-signed.

    Montreal’s got that northern touch!

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  122. […] 10, 2008 by roissy It’s time to reveal the life-affirming, spiritually uplifting comment winners for the month of […]

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  123. […] second opinion, from occasional Roissy commenter Dynamo Kiev: Your hot Russian girl will be grabbed and approached by no less than 15 men a day here, and half […]

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