Beta Of The Year Award: Husband “Supports” Wife’s Whoring

Previously, I awarded BOTY to the man who petitioned the state to change his last name so he could take his wife’s maiden name in marriage. It’s difficult to write while choking back vomit, but I managed to tough out my nausea and bring his story to the readers in hopes that I could save the life of even one man from such a horrible self-inflicted castration.

I may have been too hasty bestowing the ignominious BOTY award to “wife’s last name” guy. The year isn’t over and we have recently had a new contender for the crown. He’s the husband of a 38 year old woman who got drunk at a college football game and fucked a random dude in the men’s bathroom as people gawked and cheered them on, while he sat oblivious in his seat watching the game.

Feldman, a married mother of three, has been the target of Internet jokes and prank telephone calls today. She was fired this morning from an assisted living center, where she had been an administrator.

Feldman said her husband, Kelly, has been supportive. She said he faults himself for not going with her when she left her seat to use the restroom before halftime.

There are only two things a man should do if confronted with a humiliating betrayal of this magnitude:

  1. Say nothing to your wife except these two words: “Goodbye, whore.”
  2. As one of my commenters suggested, get retroactive paternity tests done for all “his” children. Odds are high that not all his kids are his.

That’s it. Other than a well-deserved slap across the face before walking out, (something I don’t recommend as American law as currently constituted will not be lenient toward a husband exacting righteous retribution on a whoring wife), this is all he needs to do. Anything more, and he has effectively acceded to his public emasculation. Unfortunately, the “man” in this story has done just the opposite, and so has earned a year-end berth to challenge the reigning champion for Beta Of The Year.

You, the readers, will vote to decide on the winner below.

A couple things jumped out at me when I read this sorry tale of ho. Betas love that word “supportive”. They cling to it like a piece of driftwood in a stormy sea, probably figuring that “being supportive” of their cheating spouses will spark a renewed love they never really shared. Or that this stupidly magnanimous act of phony generosity in the face of such a monumental infidelity will silence the taunting of the alphas that haunt their nightmares. I can’t think of a more counterproductive… or cringlingly pansy-assed response… than to “support” a cheating wife, especially one who cheats so flagrantly. At least avowed masochists derive some pleasure from the whippings.

This is the woman the husband is supporting:

Police ticketed Feldman, 38, and Ross Walsh, 26, of Linden for indecent conduct Saturday night.

A security guard who said he saw the two having sex through a gap in a men’s restroom stall flagged down campus police, according to the police report.

Men’s restroom? Was she really on her way to the ladies’ room and got pulled aside? Or did she have fucking in mind and loitered around the men’s bathroom until an acceptable prospect strolled by?

By the time an officer arrived, about a dozen people were cheering and laughing in the bathroom while Feldman and Walsh were inside the stall, the report said.

The officer pushed his way through the crowd, opened the door and separated Feldman and Walsh, the report said.

Police described both Feldman and Walsh as upset, drunk and uncooperative.

It doesn’t matter that she was drunk. Plenty of married women get drunk and don’t fuck strangers in public bathrooms while hubby dutifully waits for her return. The alcohol was a hindbrain serum, throwing into stark relief her craving to take the cock of an alpha male. Liquor is not a disabler of reason; it is an enabler of desire. Without the alcohol, she might have been a little more circumspect in where and how she cheated.

Then there was this:

She said he faults himself for not going with her when she left her seat to use the restroom before halftime.

Read that line again. Let the sickening gravity of it hit you in the chest with a thud. You are witnessing a peek into the shriveled, neutered, microphallic mini-id of a man who has utterly surrendered his masculinity. A man whose only concept of himself is through others — and specifically through whatever woman will give him the time of day. You want to reach out, grab this schmuck by the shoulders, and open-handedly slap him silly across the face until he comes to his senses. Faults himself?! For her getting drunk and fucking the first guy she deemed an alpha on her walk to the bathroom while onlookers cheered? This is the inwardly twisted thinking of a soulkilled wastrel. This is how a man reacts when he has no confidence in himself to stand up and stare down a woman who has wronged him.

If we were discussing politics, the analogue to this guy is the man who reflexively blames his countrymen for the evil committed by foreign enemies.

What kind of man would willingly accommodate his own dishonor? I’ll tell you what kind of man — a man who lives in fear. A man afraid to lose a woman because he believes he cannot get another. A man who is scared shitless to WALK.

In other words, a beta.

Why do women love cads? The answer is above. Women love men who live without fear.

Who is the Beta of the Year winner?






Comments


  1. Note that Lois Feldman says that her husband has been supportive and that he blames himself. It would be interesting to know whether he really thinks that way himself. For all we know, he might be ready to give her the boot.

    Peter

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  2. I think he can’t be Beta Male of the Year because that would be too charitable. Even a beta would punk that guy. What’s below Beta? Gamma male I remember someone mentioning? Or is that omega male?

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  3. Other than a well-deserved slap across the face before walking out,

    I don’t endorse violence against women but I have a funny story.

    I used to work with a 40-somethign Asian guy at a blue-collar job. He was an immigrant with some f’kin amazing stories from his home country. Civil war, kills in street-fights, communist reeducation camp, escape, refugee camps, settling in America with his compatriot wife.

    A hillarious guy, but tough as anything, and a hard worker. Anyway, he once caught his wife cheating on him here in the U.S., and beat her up in rage. I don’t know to what extent, but as far as I know, there were no serious injuries.

    He was arrested, and appeared in court. As he told us, this is what he said to the judge when confronted with the charges of domestic battery:

    “Your Honor, she broke my heart, so I broke her nose.”

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  4. I don’t think this dude is a beta male…he sounds like a wierdo cuckold who gets off on this sort of stuff. The name change guy is an actually pussy beta.

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  5. — What kind of man would willingly accommodate his own dishonor? I’ll tell you what kind of man — a man who lives in fear. A man afraid to lose a woman because he believes he cannot get another. A man who is scared shitless to WALK.

    As the Greek saying goes, a brave man dies once while a coward dies a thousand times.

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  6. This is omega. I’d like to think a beta would at least let himself off the hook for this.

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  7. No fucking contest.

    “Your Honor, she broke my heart, so I broke her nose.”

    ENDORSE.

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  8. on December 1, 2008 at 12:37 pm atheist_messiah

    He’s a delta, for sure.

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  9. Pics of Lois: http://www.bittenandbound.com/2008/11/27/lois-feldman-fired-after-metrodome-sex-arrest-photos/
    of Ross: http://www.bustedcoverage.com/?p=9162

    Ross looks pretty beta. Look at his embrace of his girlfriend, his girlfriend is ugly, doey eye expression.

    Damn, what a missed opportunity. I’d hit it.

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  10. Photos of the involved:

    http://www.bustedcoverage.com/?p=9162

    If you want to put a face to the story.

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  11. PA:

    No, your Asian friend said: “Youl Honol, she bwoke my healt, so I bloke hel nose.” ;<

    Also, regarding this Lois Feldman’s husband, he reminds me of that mental case, David Alexander, who always posts here; there seems to be a common streak of psychological masochism in them.

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  12. You know somewhere there is a feminist cunt waiting to say it WAS the husbands fault. Just give him the “American” Male of year award and be done with it.

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  13. by the way, here is the article roissy is quoting from

    to complete this tale of male degradation, her fucking shyster lawyer is telling her to turn her whorishness on the 26 year old, and claim she was “raped” in her compromised state. you’ve got to be fucking kidding me.

    “Lois Feldman said her attorney has encouraged her to fight the ticket.

    “He feels I was taken advantage of in my state of mind,” she said. “This is not me. We’re a very good family. This shouldn’t happen.”

    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20081126/NEWS/81126006/-1/SPORTS0301

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  14. That is the oldest looking 26 year old I’ve ever seen. His deep facial lines make him look 48.

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  15. Why do women love cads? The answer is above. Women love men who live without fear.

    Once again you egregiously misuse the word “love”.

    Have you read this, roissy? You could have penned it.

    Cad: Confessions of a Toxic Bachelor

    http://www.amazon.com/Cad-Confessions-Bachelor-Rick-Marin/dp/0786887672/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228152905&sr=1-1

    The Amazon.com reviewer says “….the book’s swinging, ring-a-ding-ding Rat Pack attitude feels noticeably forced and uninspired, leaving a flat aftertaste to the whole affair.”

    Kind of like this blog.

    As far as other reviewers; this from one of his “victims”.

    ‘He never called me again’: a British victim writes

    In the 1990s, while I was living in New York, a friend introduced me to Rick Marin (…) Over the next year or two we became, I thought, friends. We went out to the movies, to dinner, to parties. We told each other about the people we were dating, and he said flattering things about my prose style. A recurrent theme in his conversation – one to which I should have paid more attention – was the craziness of Manhattan women, with the flattering implication that I was exempt from the general rule; he once congratulated me on being one of the three women in New York who wasn’t in therapy.

    One night, in the sort of accident that can happen after a night in a well-stocked bar, I thought, “What the hell? We’re both grown-ups. What harm can it do?” and went to bed with him. The sex was the sort that is likely to result after 12 cocktails and two jugs of sangria, but I thought of it as if I was in a French comedy, where adults sleep together casually, almost as a form of exercise. I didn’t think it meant anything; I didn’t expect him to fall in love with me. But nor did I expect never to hear from him again – which is exactly what happened.

    One “crazy lady” story he told me, and which now came back to me with dismaying clarity, was about a woman he knew who’d called him up and said, “We used to be friends, what happened?” “I slept with her once. That doesn’t make us friends,” was how he saw it. So now I was faced with the choice of persisting in trying to revive our “friendship” and being classified as another bunny-boiler, or giving up and facing the fact it had never existed. I had been set up: he’d probably never liked me, or my prose style. He had just been biding his time.

    If some women became chemically bonded to his cock, you can hardly call it love.

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  16. Man who supports his whoring wife, hands down.

    Man that shit is weak.

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  17. her fucking shyster lawyer is telling her to turn her whorishness on the 26 year old, and claim she was “raped” in her compromised state.

    yes, exactly. this is what cunts do when their sluttiness is revealed in the light of day — they attempt to absolve themselves of all responsibility and foist the blame on the nearest available man. it’s a very female trait. the parasitic lawyers, naturally, encourage this.

    if we lived in a normal society, the law would bend over backwards to accommodate the jilted husband, and the whore would live out her years suffering the heavy burden of public shaming.

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  18. From reading that quote, I can’t say that he’s a beta, mostly because the whoring bitch was the one quoted.

    “SHE SAID he faults himself for not going with her when she left her seat to use the restroom before halftime.”

    If she’s willing to fuck a random dude in a public bathroom while her husband waits unknownlingly, she’s also willing to throw anyone under the bus to make herself look “better.” $5 says the conversation went like this:

    Him: What the FUCK?
    Her: It’s your fault for not walking me to the bathroom.

    Odds are though, that you are right on.

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  19. Sometimes Japanese men will take their wives’ name if their wife has no brother, but they’re actually taking their father-in-law’s name so that it won’t die. Very different thing.

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  20. I think the fault obviously lies with the public men’s rooms in Minneapolis. First Larry Craig was framed, and now this poor lady.

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  21. Tough call. I sort of feel sorry for the husband.

    As for his “wife” – she is in for a world of shit. People out in the midwest have no sympathy for this sort of thing. She is ruined, socially and professionally. I doubt anyone in her town will ever speak to her again. She probably won’t be able to get service at a restaurant anywhere in the state. Shit, she’ll be lucky to get an oil change at Jiffy Lube after this. She’s going to need to move someplace far, far away from Iowa.

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  22. “People out in the midwest have no sympathy for this sort of thing. ”

    “She’s going to need to move someplace far, far away from Iowa.”

    My suggestion is she re-invent herself as a Madam in Los Angeles.

    Or a prostitute.

    Prostitution is up in the Down Economy.

    – MPM

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  23. wow, the first thing that comes to mind is that this guy has most likely tasted the gizz of another man. seriously, if his wife is willing to fuck some random drunkard at a football game, in a fucking bathroom stall no less, than I wouldn’t doubt for ONE second that she’s choked down the nut-butter of some random schlub at a nearby bar and then stumbled home to share the tasty goodness with her husband.

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  24. I’ll continue to stand by my prior comment and point out that we haven’t yet heard from the husband. All we know is what the wife says. It is entirely possible that he is not quite so forgiving, in fact he might be consulting with a divorce lawyer, or at least insisting that she attend marriage counseling.

    Peter

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  25. “…or at least insisting that she attend marriage counseling.”

    That, too, would be very beta. Marriage counseling is for when wife nags too much and husband doesn’t communicate, not for drunken fucks in public bathrooms.

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  26. in fact he might be consulting with a divorce lawyer, or at least insisting that she attend marriage counseling.

    seeking marriage counseling falls under the rubric of “support”. if he does that, he confirms his betaness. no doubt the dr. phil-cloned counselor will find some fault with the husband for driving his wife into the genitalia of a punk in a public toilet.

    no, in this case, when the betrayal is so blatant, the sluttiness so absurd, and the dishonor to his manhood so egregious, there is only one choice…

    WALK.

    the kids are irrelevant to this equation. harsh, but true. if the kids suffer, the whore has only herself to blame.

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  27. There is only one solution that can rectify this situation.

    Feed her to the Rancor!

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  28. I have to wonder if the Feldmans are swingers. Yes, the husband should walk. It’s his only chance to save face – at this point if he does not then he’ll go down with his wife and find himself un-employable and a social pariah.

    There has got to be more to this story which we have not found out yet. It just doesn’t make sense. Her side of the story is clearly bullshit. We haven’t heard anything from the husband or the 26 year old.

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  29. in this case, when the betrayal is so blatant, the sluttiness so absurd, and the dishonor to his manhood so egregious, there is only one choice…
    WALK

    One could argue that the wife’s betrayal under these circumstances was less blatant than if she had a regular boyfriend. It’s not entirely dissimilar to a married man who visits a hooker as opposed to having a mistress.

    I’d say that the chances that the Feldman marriage will survive are very poor, but not entirely zero.

    Peter

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  30. She’s 38, her reproductive assets are tiny. Her body tells her – only alpha sperm can get me pregnant again, and that’s how she acted. It’s science, women become more slutty with age to increase the likelihood of pregnancy.
    Women’s promiscuity and lustful thoughts tended to peak in their thirties.”

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  31. I think Peter raises a good point. There are also 3 kids involved in this whole fiasco. Until we hear from the husband we can’t actually know what he thinks about the wife, but unless he finds out that one (or more) of the kids aren’t his, I think it’s pretty safe to assume that he does have very strong feelings for his children and would not want to part with them. And that’s the wrinkle. As this book makes clear, close to 100% of divorce cases involving child custody are initiated by the parent who is confident that they will receive full custody: http://www.amazon.com/Taken-into-Custody-Fatherhood-Marriage/dp/1581825943

    He may very well have consulted a divorce lawyer to find out what the odds of him receiving custody of the children would be. If they are low – yes even considering the flagrant and public adultery; family courts are notoriously biased against fathers – then he may believe that the greater evil would be effectively to abandon the kids to this woman.

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  32. “women become more slutty with age to increase the likelihood of pregnancy.”

    “Women’s promiscuity and lustful thoughts tended to peak in their thirties.”

    Oh come on. This is clearly bullshit.

    no, in this case, when the betrayal is so blatant, the sluttiness so absurd, and the dishonor to his manhood so egregious, there is only one choice…

    WALK

    This has been a public service announcement by Pantera

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  33. “…if the kids suffer, the whore has only herself to blame.”

    She won’t. They never do. She will always be the victim, always.

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  34. I have to wonder if the Feldmans are swingers.

    if this were so, it wouldn’t much budge the husband’s lesser beta status, though perhaps it would make it a little more understandable. in my observation, guys who agree to open relationships are looking for cover for their latent beta tendencies. they pretend they don’t get jealous when they give carte blanche to their GFs/wives to fuck around on the side, but that’s horseshit. they just don’t want to man up to the fact that they’re scared they aren’t alpha enough to prevent their women from cheating. in their fear and loathing of women’s nature, they betray their own.

    One could argue that the wife’s betrayal under these circumstances was less blatant than if she had a regular boyfriend.

    by blatant, i mean public bathroom-level blatant. a wife who is discreet about her affairs at least respects her husband enough to refrain from waving his ball-less weakness in the public square like a bloody rag.

    then he may believe that the greater evil would be effectively to abandon the kids to this woman.

    this is only a difficult choice when the laws are stacked against men, as they are today in the modern west. a healthy legal system would work to ensure a quick and painless divorce while granting the father generous custodial rights and punishing the wife to the maximum extent warranted by her misbehavior, if that is what he wished.

    it would NOT mean — half of his money, perpetual alimony, chilc support while she fucks the new BF who buys his kids toys, or any of the other kinds of divorce detritus we’ve come to expect will land in the laps of the average american man come face to face with the evil of an ex-wife and her divorce lawyer allied with the apparatus of the state against his interests.

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  35. A nit.

    Liquor is not a disabler of reason; it is an enabler of desire.

    Actually it’s both.

    ***

    As to BOTY it’s very close. I think “supporting” a cheating wife is much more beta than taking a name. I’m very old-school. It’s very close for me on the whole kill the man and then kill the cheating bitch, in that order. It’s the Southern Italian genes.

    One woman, on a casual weekend to Vegas, once asked me in a joking falsetto what would happen if she cheated on me. With a straight face and deadly serious tone I told her I would kill the lover while she watched and then her. For the remainder of the 3-hour drive to Vegas I said nothing and neither did she.

    The sex that night was amazing. Let that be an object lesson. Never, ever, surrender your power.

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  36. “this is only a difficult choice…her divorce lawyer allied with the apparatus of the state against his interests.”

    Agree on both counts. A choice between public humiliation and the prospect of losing all contact with one’s genetic offspring – should they all be his – is no choice at all.

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  37. I’ll chime in as a few others have: Beta? I’d call this twinkie of a hubby an omega. Most betas might not go off at her at the game while she’s still drunk. But they’d toss her crap on the lawn and change the locks while she was getting processed. A lawyer with papers that included full custody would be waiting when she walked in the door for the last time, afterwards.

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  38. I’m wondering how the couple managed to hook up in a crowded stadium. Drunk or not, this seems like a highly unlikely encounter – sex between strangers in a toilet stall. It is unlikely that they knew each other, as they come from towns a good 40 miles apart.

    Peter

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  39. While the guy that wanted to take his wife’s name needs to grow a pair, the cuckold clearly deserves the BOTY Award. Sticking by your wife after she let another man plant his seed inside her?

    Despicable.

    Roissy said: “in my observation, guys who agree to open relationships are looking for cover for their latent beta tendencies. they pretend they don’t get jealous when they give carte blanche to their GFs/wives to fuck around on the side, but that’s horseshit. they just don’t want to man up to the fact that they’re scared they aren’t alpha enough to prevent their women from cheating. in their fear and loathing of women’s nature, they betray their own.”

    Roissy’s spot on. Swingers and the open crowd will defend their set up til they’re blue in the face, but I think it’s bullshit.

    Monogamy may or may not be natural, but jealousy sure as hell is.

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  40. It’s science, women become more slutty with age to increase the likelihood of pregnancy.

    “Women’s promiscuity and lustful thoughts tended to peak in their thirties.”

    That’s surely false. The GSS, a large representative national survey, which beats whatever convenience sample Schmitt looked at, shows that a female’s average number of sex partners increases from 18 to 22, where it peaks, and falls steadily after that — not even tapering off — until 82.

    Average number of times a woman has sex in a period of time (with # of partners unspecified) shows a similar pattern: increases from 18 to the late 20s, peaks, then falls steadily until it hits about 0 in the early 80s.

    I made these graphs over the weekend and will post them tomorrow at my blog.

    Levels of testosterone show similar patterns — let’s get real about the “horny old birds” myth.

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  41. While the guy that wanted to take his wife’s name needs to grow a pair, the cuckold clearly deserves the BOTY Award. Sticking by your wife after she let another man plant his seed inside her?

    Despicable.

    Roissy said: “in my observation, guys who agree to open relationships are looking for cover for their latent beta tendencies. they pretend they don’t get jealous when they give carte blanche to their GFs/wives to fuck around on the side, but that’s horseshit. they just don’t want to man up to the fact that they’re scared they aren’t alpha enough to prevent their women from cheating. in their fear and loathing of women’s nature, they betray their own.”

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  42. Roissy said: “in my observation, guys who agree to open relationships are looking for cover for their latent beta tendencies. they pretend they don’t get jealous when they give carte blanche to their GFs/wives to fuck around on the side, but that’s horseshit. they just don’t want to man up to the fact that they’re scared they aren’t alpha enough to prevent their women from cheating. in their fear and loathing of women’s nature, they betray their own.”

    Spot on. The swingers and ope crowd will defend their lifestyles until they’re blue in the face, but it’s bullshit.
    Monogamy may or may not be natural, but jealousy sure as hell is.
    Participating in a open or swinging marriage is like wading waist deep through gasoline holding a torch.

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  43. @Peter,

    On reflection you are right. The odds of this happening strain credulity given the locale.

    These two knew each other somehow and have kept that angle quiet.

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  44. It is unlikely that they knew each other, as they come from towns a good 40 miles apart.

    I’m not so sure. 40 miles isn’t that far. At highway speeds that’s a 30-50 minute trip. Both of them were fans of the same sports team and may have met through that community.

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  45. on December 1, 2008 at 3:29 pm Pope Goaz D'Weezil

    I would bet on him being a knowing cuckold fetishist. Note that it is not necessarily him denying his jealously and shame, but rather being turned on by it. A little more understanding of the fetish here would help. I still think the whole cuckold thing is beta, but it’s not quite what many here have made it out to be.

    What this would be if it were cuckolding would be child abuse, IMO. This would be letting a fetish go way too far. Those kids (whoever they belong to – any of them half-black?) are going to have to move far, far away.

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  46. Roissy

    “in my observation, guys who agree to open relationships are looking for cover for their latent beta tendencies. they pretend they don’t get jealous when they give carte blanche to their GFs/wives to fuck around on the side, but that’s horseshit. they just don’t want to man up to the fact that they’re scared they aren’t alpha enough to prevent their women from cheating. in their fear and loathing of women’s nature, they betray their own.”

    I don’t know about that. Maybe some of them are betraying their nature, but maybe some of them are surpassing it by realizing monogamy is really just unnatural. Possible, yes, but unnatural.

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  47. It was about promiscuity Agnostic, openness to one night stands. Older women are much easier than teens, and are more open to doing crazy shit like this.

    Women are most likely to divorce men in the late twenties and early thirties, the average female age for first divorce is around 31. Also around the age female infidelity peaks.

    Here’s a quote from a Telegraph article:

    “Dr Schmitt told New Scientist that women were more likely to have an affair when their fertility first begins to wane.

    “That’s exactly the point where the odds of conceiving start to drop at a bigger rate, and it’s also the point where the odds of having a child with a genetic problem or birth defect start to go up,” he said.

    Of course plenty of women have babies much later, but Dr Schmitt suggests that women’s increased sociosexuality at around this time reflects an evolved reproductive strategy that maximises the chances of their conceiving and bearing a healthy child. ”

    Maybe its a function of 30 year old women not being approached as much as the fertile cohort. She could be open to an approach, but with three kids it probably doesn’t happen nearly as often as with college girls. This might have been the first time she was approached in a long while. College girls have more sex, at least in part (you must admit), for environmental reasons. Is it really surprising that the sudden rise in promiscuity correlates exactly to the average four year college stint?

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  48. T.:
    I don’t know about that. Maybe some of them are betraying their nature, but maybe some of them are surpassing it by realizing monogamy is really just unnatural. Possible, yes, but unnatural.

    hey, i’m a big fan of polyamory… for me. the girls have to stay within my orbit.

    but on a more serious note, yeah, it’s probably true that monogamy isn’t entirely natural. pairings seem to have an average sell-by date of seven years. and the pair-bonding urge may vary by race (east asians being the most monogamous, africans the least).

    if a polyamorous guy can honestly say he’s not suppressing his emotions and is perfectly fine with his partner(s) fucking other dudes, then by all means have at it. speaking for myself, when i have dated girls i was not entirely into for varying reasons, i was more comfortable ignoring the thought that they may be catting around on the off-roissy time. they were the classic fuckbuddies. but if i’ve been dating a girl for a while (+ 2 months) and i catch her cheating i know not to invest anymore resources in her. she will, at best, be a toy to play with. but as a long term steady prospect, she’s a write-off.

    no good can come from dating a girl long term who isn’t wholly satisfied with the singular glory that is your cock, and your cock alone.

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  49. This guy represents the sorry state of American masculinity today, especially men in the big Northeastern cities, who have surrendered all their erstwhile power to women, in an effort to score whatever meager amounts of pity sex these women will deign to bestow.

    Might I add that the couple’s last name suggests they are members of the “Tribe”. While I highly respect the Tribe’s intelligence and contributions to humanity, one of their more questionable aspects is the meekness and pussy-whipped nature of their men, and the hegemonic feminism of many of their women.

    Perhaps some of their brethren can enlighten us as to how this phenomenon developed?

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  50. on December 1, 2008 at 4:35 pm ironrailsironweights

    Might I add that the couple’s last name suggests they are members of the “Tribe”.

    Perhaps not always in Iowa.

    Peter

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  51. Joe T:

    Might I add that the couple’s last name suggests they are members of the “Tribe”.

    Well, according to Ms. Feldman she goes to church every Sunday, so they’re Germans, and almost certainly not Jewish. 99.8% of rural Midwesterners with German names are Gentiles, as opposed to the large coastal cities where at most 40-50% are.

    Nevertheless, your observation about pussywhipped Jewish men and their snarling battleaxe women is almost entirely correct, with a few exceptions.

    Like


  52. Whether this is related or not: Vanity Fair magazine just put Tina Fey on its cover, with an article inside (Must be the Sarah Palin impression, more than her low-rated TV show). Anyway, they interview her, and her husband, who’s some music producer. Some quotes from her husband about her:

    “I remember the biggest trouble I ever got into—” says her husband, Jeff Richmond, a short, puckish man of 48 in jeans and a T-shirt, cutting himself off mid-thought at the mere memory of Tina’s wrath. “Oh, my God.” (He calls himself “the Joe Biden of husbands” because he’s prone to “drop the bomb” in interviews.)

    Other stuff:

    “What are you gonna tell?” she teases her husband. “Think this through.”

    Richmond wades in. “When we were first dating,” he says, harking back to Chicago in 1994, “some of the guys at Second City said, ‘Hey, wouldn’t it be a hoot if we go over—”’

    ”’—over to the Doll House,”’ Fey finishes. “ ‘We’ll go to this strip club ironically.’ I was like, ‘The fuck you will.”’

    The rest here:
    http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2009/01/tina_fey200901

    ALL of this suggests that this guy is some beta-on-steroids, henpecked to death at home. He makes David Alexander seem like a Mandingo. She obviously earns much more money than him, and he composes music for that 30 Rock show. Really macho profession, there. Apparently, he’s the only guy she’s ever been with, and she seems to give off the impression that she is some ultra-square. Despite becoming a sex symbol, she will supposedly never have the chance to take advantage of it. Or will she?!?

    Like


  53. Anyway, Tina Fey is seen as some sort of feminist comedic icon (her Sarah Palin was hilarious, but her Weekend Update Stint was grossly overrated). I guess the entertainment media needs some minority to push on everyone.

    What kind of pussy-whipped husband tells the interviewer (who I then read was Maureen Dowd of all people) that he’s SCARED of his wife? Yeah, he’s scared because he dated her back when she was still fat and ugly (Look up her high school graduation pictures: she looks like some mentally-retarded Cretan peasant-woman). Which meant that he was no looker himself, and desperately doesn’t want to lose her.

    Like


  54. Jack White and Meg White of the White Stripes were married and then divorced. He was born Jack Gillis and changed his name to Jack White when he married Meg White. I don’t think he is beta, Jack White is a much better name.

    Like


  55. You don’t recommend hitting someone because “modern law” will not understand your rationalizations/justifications/bullshit reasons?

    You’re just a quaint little traditionalist, aren’t you?

    Like


  56. You don’t recommend hitting someone because “modern law” will not understand your rationalizations/justifications/bullshit reasons?

    i’m a utilitarian.

    You’re just a quaint little traditionalist, aren’t you?

    you’re just a quaint little lurker, aren’t you?

    Like


  57. Joe T.–

    That thought occurred to me as well, but given the locale I thought it slightly less likely.

    By the way, I am a member of the Tribe myself, and also have a name that is not always associated with it. In fact, the vast majority of those with my last name are not members. My FIRST name, on the other hand, is a pretty good give-away. . .

    Like


  58. this is nearly as bad the men who “support” the woman who killed their brood, their next line of genes, their young men (or daughters *cough*) in training. part of me wishes to say that a woman who kills your brood has effectively set you free, and while she has also wasted the amount of time and marriage you spent with her by destroying the only remaining part of your legacy, however semi-beta it may be as a product of marriage to a psychopath…..but yeah, this whore-supporting man beats the guy who wants a maiden name. by a mile.

    Like


  59. I would like to see a picture of Feldman’s husband. Perhaps he looks similar to that army guy who married that hideously retarded looking woman a few posts ago.

    Like


  60. on December 1, 2008 at 6:02 pm Cannon's Canon

    Both BOTY contenders are terrible stories to choke down; however, I voted for the “man” who volunteered to take his wife’s surname. Putting aside the conclusions of evolutionary psychology for a moment, one can make the blanket statement that this man has tragic self-confidence issues and thus wishes to reinvent himself vicariously through another, greater man by assuming his name. That the greater man is his father-in-law enables endgame feminism (superiority) and is absolutely congruent to textbook-beta behavior.

    The cuckolded husband suffered an emotional/psychological mugging at gunpoint from his whore wife, and in his moment of pressure, admitted his betaness to the gun barrel. In the context of the news reporting, he didn’t see this coming and could make only off-the-cuff beta decisions as far as doling out “support” and drawing his allegiances with his wife, even if these instinctual decisions were drawn out over a few days. I also recognize that he hasn’t been quoted directly or made a public appearance, as well as that their kids (his own or not) are still in play. If he shows up on Oprah holding his wife’s hand and nodding throughout her tale, I’ll recast my vote.

    The name-changer clearly suggested the idea himself, since it’s a ludicrous presumption for even the sharpest-toothed warpig to ask of a partner. Additionally, he was happy to launch the media campaign congratulating himself for his charity. This struck me as exceptionally Ellsworth Toohey-ish and won me over.

    I think the name-changer’s story is complete, but I am very interested to hear more about the whore wife. I would venture this prediction: if the husband reveals supreme betatude, the media will cover his supposed bravery. If he leaves her, the story will be buried and alphas will be denied a smile upon hearing the news.

    Like


  61. Looking at the picture of her… yea, I’d nail her.

    I’d be even more inclined to nail her in a mens bathroom stall just for kicks.

    I’d be even MORE inclined to nail her in a men’s bathroom stall with a dozen people outside the stall cheering me on! That’s a story for the grandkids.

    Like


  62. It was suggested earlier in the thread: we don’t know all the details about this couple’s relationship. Maybe the husband did something (e.g. a threesome with his secretary and a hooker) that inspired the wife to exact revenge, and the only reason he’s not leaving her ass is that his own deed would let her divorce lawyer fleece him in court.

    Just sayin’.

    Like


  63. Who the hell voted for the guy who adopted his wife’s surname? That guy has *nothing* on the other guy in terms of “holy fucking what-the-shit batman” beta-tude.

    Like


  64. I agree with those who think this is a fetish situation. It sounds like a male fantasy situation; to most women’s minds the stall of a men’s room is only marginally more erotic than a dumpster. Maybe this guy is beta but it would take Charles Martel to persuade me to do that.

    Assuming this is real I typically advocate working it out for the kids sake this combination of sexual betrayal and public humiliation is a form of abuse. Staying with someone like this would be like staying with someone who beats you every night and the kids would suffer.

    And even if the husband gets off on it inflicting this humiliation on their kids is inexcusable. Also, as a conservative these stories demoralize men and damage the reputation of marriage. Look how much we’re talking about it! If people want to practice these fetishes fine, just do so discreetly and leave the kids out of it.

    Like


  65. RagTag –

    You want to nail a 38 year-old, almost menopausal woman, based on a couple of small, grainy photographs?

    Go home! No alpha brownie points for you!!!

    Good day, sir!!

    Like


  66. “Feldman” a Jewish name? She might be a “shiksa”,a quaint term our Jewish friends use to describe non-Jewish(in most cases,it means a white Christian chick)girls involved w/Jewish men–from a Hebrew word meanIng “abominable,unclean,monster.” Ya gotta love those Jews! 🙂 There ARE Jews in Iowa–Ann Landers and her sister Dear Abby hailed from a town in Iowa. (I know,big fucking deal.) Or they could just be goyim with the name Feldman. This bitch obviously has a long history of psycho behavior. It says she “requested” that her hubby accompany her to the ladies room. WTF?? In real life they were probably having a huge fight about something or other(maybe her whore soul??). If he killed her(which is my answer to this conumdrum,:) )I would love to be on that jury!

    Like


  67. Sen. Arlen Specter of PA was also born in Iowa, although his family moved to Russell, KS (Bob Dole’s hometown) shortly thereafter. And Specter is Jewish. So there *are* Jews in Ioway!

    So sue me for knowing congressional trivia, I’m a former Hill Rat!!

    Like


  68. OK, just checked wiki and Specter was born in KS. If I may say so, that’s even weirder. Don’t know how the Iowa thing got planted in my mind. Must have been those radio transmissions from the CIA.

    Like


  69. And people wonder why men aren’t getting married anymore.

    Like


  70. Since this escapade was so stupid, I am inclined to believe she was drunk out of her mind. But, if she was on autopilot, maybe she has been there before.

    For some real beta males, look here:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/3527803/Recession-When-the-money-goes-so-does-the-toxic-wife.html

    Well, hormones make men stupid. We all know that. Even Roissy will wake up someday and wonder why he spent so much time chasing pussy. Ans. Hormones.

    Like


  71. on December 1, 2008 at 8:28 pm Cannon's Canon

    Regardless of heritage, betatude/omegatude, potential fatherhood, or bizarre fetishes, it is safe to assume Mr. Feldman was not laying pipe the right way. Roissy Maxim #something: leave her laying in a puddle of her own satisfied juices.

    Like


  72. Kick a Bitch
    wow, the first thing that comes to mind is that this guy has most likely tasted the gizz of another man

    You see this^^^ is the type of thing that I don’t want to think about. I at least hope, she used a condom with any other partners she may have had.

    Like


  73. Roissy quoted:

    “By the time an officer arrived, about a dozen people were cheering and laughing in the bathroom while Feldman and Walsh were inside the stall, the report said.”

    She cannot say she was just drunk.

    I believe she exchanged glances at least with the is younger man at the game and watched for him to go to the bathroom, or seen him on the way to the bathroom and thought “why not, we wont get caught, and its –exciting”. She is a whore who humiliated her providing husband of her three kids. She also exhibited for her kids how little she cares for them by risking her marriage so brazenly in a public space, at a very public event. Her kids will assuredly repay this insult as they get older and it really hits them that their own mom cares so little for them, that she’d risk breaking up their family and losing at least half-custody of them.

    She is not worth spit as we say down south. 12 people watching you fuck in the bathroom is just plain dirty. The smells of urine and worse percolating in the air……………..its nasty to just think about. Street-level-ho we are dealing with here.

    Like


  74. I truly hope that his children do not follow this model of pathological forgiveness… private disrespect is bad enough… but public disrespect is unforgivable… people get killed for less….

    Like


  75. ps. horny woman that much on the prowl are a fun fuck

    Like


  76. Roissy in some open marriages, the wife has Se* with other women not men.

    Like


  77. smoothvirus
    I have to wonder if the Feldmans are swingers

    Same thought went throught my mind as well.

    Anyone remember the family( two brothers and wife) who were caught having a threesome on a NYC train a few years ago. The brother was a RN and was in danger of losing his nursing license because of the charge.

    Like


  78. Were they hidden or out in the open?

    Like


  79. out in the open Hello. Someone told them to stop but they just kept right at it. There were children and elderly people around.

    Like


  80. “out in the open Hello. Someone told them to stop but they just kept right at it. There were children and elderly people around.”

    *faints*

    Like


  81. The name-changer clearly suggested the idea himself, since it’s a ludicrous presumption for even the sharpest-toothed warpig to ask of a partner. Additionally, he was happy to launch the media campaign congratulating himself for his charity. This struck me as exceptionally Ellsworth Toohey-ish and won me over.

    Yes, that’s why I think the name-changer is the BOTY. He’s obviously a male feminist. As such, his actions contribute to the further erosion of male power and prestige in society. On the other hand, the cuckold’s actions are so far out that he’s not going to be inspiring anyone except a few porn producers. He’s not a beta; he’s a freak.

    Mind you, I’m assuming that the cuckold really is “supporting” his faithless wife and planning to stay with her. It’s also possible that he’s only pretending to support her and is staying with her for now in order to spare their children further public trauma. He may have no intention of forgiving her or staying married to her for longer than it takes for the publicity to die down. If that were true, it would be an honorable choice, although not one I could stomach.

    Like


  82. the wife was monica-ing the husband while bouncing on her brother-in-law.

    smh

    Some men prefer the Jessica Cutler types hello. Most Cutler type women find a husband, and a good one at that.

    Like


  83. How about this fine example of public humiliation, upper west side style ?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/fashion/30love.html?partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

    Like


  84. It was about promiscuity Agnostic, openness to one night stands. Older women are much easier than teens, and are more open to doing crazy shit like this.

    That’s not what people mean by promiscuity, though — which is based on behavior. Thinking and preferring are not doing. I guess that’s why he invented this term “sociosexuality,” but the news article confuses preferences with behavior.

    Rising number of partners from 18 to 22 isn’t due to going to college. I checked the GSS for women who were only of average or below-average intelligence, and the pattern looks the same.

    It’s some kind of maturational thing, probably.

    Like


  85. “Some men prefer the Jessica Cutler types hello. Most Cutler type women find a husband, and a good one at that.”

    Maybe her fiance is the one who finally taught her to Respect The Cock.

    Like


  86. Lorena Bobbitt was acquitted on account of “temporary insanity” after cutting off her husband’s penis. If some enraged beta sliced off his cheating wife’s clitoris, he’d likely get the maximum sentence.

    Like


  87. I think your right hello. I bet he has a mean lick game as well.

    Like


  88. “Older women are much easier than teens, and are more open to doing crazy shit like this.”

    It can be frightening as a teen girl to wake up and be the object of male lust. I think experience and confidence emboldens some women into being kinky. It’s easier to open up when you have a better idea of what to expect.

    Like


  89. on December 1, 2008 at 9:53 pm ironrailsironweights

    Anyone remember the family( two brothers and wife) who were caught having a threesome on a NYC train a few years ago.

    Yeah, it was on an LIRR train, on the Babylon line if I recall correctly. The mere thought of Doing the Dirty Deed on one of those foul trains nauseates me; a stadium toilet stall is surely much more romantic and erotic.

    Peter

    Like


  90. on December 1, 2008 at 9:56 pm ironrailsironweights

    Today’s tasty GNP is a bit unusual. In most cases, multiple tattoos = Bald Eagle, but this one is a rare exception.

    Peter

    Like


  91. @Affe

    I was just about to post the link. He’s probably not a competitor for beta of the year, but he’s certainly a runner-up.

    Like


  92. Affe,
    I don’t know who to feel more sorry for, author of that piece or her husband. He could get away from her sexually repressed craziness, but she has to live with it without even sex to soften the blow.

    Like


  93. Anonymous – you must be desperate to say you’d want to fuck her. She doesn’t even look that good for her age. Based on those photos, I give her no better than a 4 or 5 from those photos. She hardly has any eyebrows (they look painted on), her hair is obviously bleached, and her face has the tight look of too many Botox treatments. You call that fuckable?

    Really, the fact that so many American guys have lowered their standards so much, in their frantic desperation for pussy, has contributed as much to the decline of male power vis-a-vis women as feminism has.

    Like


  94. Joe T,
    You grew up in Italy, right? Perhaps you could offer a perspective here. I’ve been thinking lately that a lot of what y’all discuss here as game describes the personalities of many Italian men. Women around the world love the vain, preening peacocking Italian style, but it pisses off other men so in most countries men may playact to impress women but few make it their full-time personality. Italy seems to be the exception to this rule. Is there a cultural factor that makes Italian men less likely to castigate such behavior in other men? When I was in Italy I was with my boyfriend so I didn’t spend much time with such characters. Also, lest you think I’m disrespecting the culture I’m half Italian but I don’t think my mom would know the answer to this.

    Like


  95. David Alexander is the beta of the year each and every years.

    it was on an LIRR train, on the Babylon line if I recall correctly

    Ahh yes, the Babylon, my home line. 🙂

    I give her no better than a 4 or 5 from those photos

    She’s a 7, IMHO.

    her hair is obviously bleached

    Which is good, IMHO.

    You call that fuckable?

    Yes, compared to the South Americans that Roosh faps to or the Catalan teens that Agnostic thinks are beauty queens. She has more sexuality in her appearance than most women of her age.

    Like


  96. Peter saidYeah, it was on an LIRR train, on the Babylon line if I recall correctly

    The name of the line almost gives it away.

    Like


  97. Hello, French and Italian men seem to set women on fire. Ethopian men are very quite and down to earth but physically, there beauty is off the charts. Sengalese men are good as well, if you like very dark skinned men who are tall,thin and somewhat humble .

    Like


  98. Ha, it would be funny if it were an elaborate Andy Kaufman style prank

    Like


  99. A Senegalese Rasta guy who works at my Trader Joe’s tried to chat me up. This guy has out and out charisma, but I’m leery of anyone from Africa due to AIDS.

    Like


  100. on December 1, 2008 at 10:20 pm ironrailsironweights

    Mind you, I’m assuming that the cuckold really is “supporting” his faithless wife and planning to stay with her. It’s also possible that he’s only pretending to support her and is staying with her for now in order to spare their children further public trauma. He may have no intention of forgiving her or staying married to her for longer than it takes for the publicity to die down.

    As far as I can tell, after doing some Google searching, the husband hasn’t said anything publicly. All we have is the wife’s claim that the husband is sticking by her.

    In fact, there don’t seem to have been any news stories in the past few days. It is possible that the couple has split up. Whatever the case, unless one or both of them decides to speak out we may never know what will happen to their marriage.

    Peter

    Like


  101. on December 1, 2008 at 10:26 pm ironrailsironweights

    A Senegalese Rasta guy who works at my Trader Joe’s tried to chat me up. This guy has out and out charisma, but I’m leery of anyone from Africa due to AIDS.

    HIV infection rates are the highest in southern and central Africa. West Africa, including Senegal, has much lower rates.

    Peter

    Like


  102. hello –

    I was born in Italy, but did not grow up there.

    Nonetheless, I know the culture enough and you are mainly right in what you say. Pretty good analysis.

    However, there are Latin cultures and there are Latin cultures.

    What you say about Italy is actually even truer in much of Latin America.

    I did live in Puerto Rico for two years, and, knowing both cultures, I can say that the macho “preening” style of behavior you associate with Italy exists in a much more powerful and pervasive form in Latin America.

    Also, for those who think Italian culture is that way, you haven’t seen *Greek* culture. For a while I had a Greek girlfriend (not Greek-American but off-the-boat Greek), and she had lots of Greek friends around where we lived.

    I have never seen a more macho culture than the Greeks. They take the macho thing to ridiculous, unnecessary extremes, though, and it actually becomes self-defeating. Which is my theory as to why Greece is has only emerged recently (and slowly) from effective Third World status.

    A lot of what you describe is endemic in *all* Mediterranean cultures. I am used to northern Italy, and haven’t spent much time in southern Italy, where supposedly machismo is more pronounced.

    I think a lot of it has to do with the conservatism of Mediterranean cultures, which treat males and females very differently from birth. Fathers, brothers, and other male relatives are hyper-protective of females (including their chastity), while mothers dote on their sons and baby them until they’re quite old.

    This produces a strong sense of entitlement in males, which I’m sure accounts for the well-known behavior you describe.

    Contrarily in the US, for the past several decades, our society has seen fit to collectively instill a sense of entitlement in young *females*.

    This doesn’t manifest itself in an exact mirror-image of machismo, though. However, what it produces is actually, to my mind, just as mindless and idiotic, and even more unsavory and repugnant, since not only does it elevate one gender over the other, it also puts people and relationships at odds with nature.

    Like


  103. YEA, Peter beat me to it. Senegal has a very low HIV/Aids rate. There are a number of reasons why but one of the biggest is most women are virgins until they are married(80%+).

    *Agnostic wonders how those hig T women remain virgins until marriage*

    BTW, the number of Aids cases in Africa is most likely grossly exaggerated because people are diagnosed according to symptoms not actual testing.

    Like


  104. hello that sounds like it belongs in grouphug.us

    Like


  105. Peter

    Regarding Today’s tasty GNP is a bit unusual. In most cases, multiple tattoos = Bald Eagle, but this one is a rare exception.

    I like that you don’t discriminate against women who aren’t beautiful in the classic sense. Are you European by any chance?

    Like


  106. Joe T,
    I have some experience in Latin America, and I’ve dated Latino guys though I was certain to steer clear of don juans. I know nothing of Greeks, but yes what I refer to is to an extent common in Latin cultures. What piques me is that Game is kind of stylized masculinity that is custom-designed to appeal to women. Other masculine traits that women aren’t aroused by are ignored. For example in the realm of femininity caring for babies isn’t sexy to most men but it is very feminine. The stiff upper lip stoicism of the English of yore cannot quicken the pulse of more than a very few but it is more masculine than feminine.

    Why do you think that Latin/Italian concepts of masculinity so readily appeal to women when the more stalwart masculine virtues of, say, China do not? The Chinese and Italians are both patriarchal cultures with the father as the respected head of the household but there is very little about Chinese culture that excites foreign women.

    Like


  107. “hello that sounds like it belongs in grouphug.us”

    ?

    Like


  108. on December 1, 2008 at 10:53 pm ironrailsironweights

    I like that you don’t discriminate against women who aren’t beautiful in the classic sense. Are you European by any chance?

    All-American.

    As for beauty, I’ve long been of the opinion (pardon the trite expression) that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For some reason, my ideas as to what women are beautiful and what one’s aren’t frequently differ from the general male consensus. To name one example, many men seem to think that Angelina Jolie is stunning, while to me she’s ugly.

    Peter

    Like


  109. agnostic thinks she looks like a tranny. I think she very nice looking.

    Like


  110. I think Angelina is beautiful, but she does have a masculine jaw and I think she will look more mannish as she ages.

    Anne Coulter looks more like a tranny to me, though she is nonetheless pretty and can look great from the right angle.

    Some people think she has AIS

    Like


  111. hello –

    you raise some very good questions, which unfortunately I cannot answer as I’m not a very good amateur anthropologist.

    I think a lot of the questions you raise have to do with subjective tastes, though, and so are, at the end of the day, almost unanswerable.

    It’s often been brought up on this website, that women in non-western cultures (like Russia, Eastern Europe and East Asia) seem much more amenable to the mundane charms of western “beta” males than, for instance, the men of their own cultures.

    I have an old friend with whom I worked on Capitol Hill, who was a self-described “uber-geek”. He was the crystallized essence of every nerdy stereotype — major Star Trek and sci-fi fan, Unix expert, socially awkward. In fact, he was severely autistic as a young child. And not terribly good-looking, either (about a 5, a 6 on a very good day). But he was, and is, brilliant — a linguist who became fluent in both Russian and Mandarin… a policy wonk extraordinaire, etc. On top of that, he had of what Roissy would call the stereotypical “beta” ideas, values, and political and social philosophies, including being a staunch feminist.

    To shorten a very long story, for years, my friend struck out miserably approaching DC women.

    Then after our boss lost an election in 1994, he got a gig at the US Embassy in Moscow (when he was about 30). At one of his first nights out at a club, he met a 19 year-old Russian beauty (most guys would probably rank her a solid 8), who spoke almost no English. He asked her out, and they were married within a year. And they’re still married, and as far as I know, she’s been faithful all the way through. He is now serving at the US Embassy in another major world capital.

    Now, how many people out there can say, with a straight face, that he would ever have met and married a woman of that quality in the US — particularly in a city like DC, where even average young women would never give a guy like this the time of day?

    Like


  112. Joe T.–

    Yes, there are Tribe members in Iowa. The Friedman sisters (Abby & Ann, otherwise known as Esther Pauline and Pauline Esther-although I can’t remember which was which) grew up in Sioux City. And as a Hill rat (although probably of more recent vintage), you may or may not know that a while back Iowa had a landssman in Congress, Ed Mezvinsky. Ed got tossed out by the voters and moved to Philadelphia. His wife, Marjorie Margulies-Mezvinsky, also served in Congress from a suburban Philly district until she in turn was booted in the GOP landslide of 1994, by a Jewish Republican named Jon Fox. So there!

    Like


  113. Joe T,
    I used to meet many Russians in my last job and I saw several such situations. Although I find some aspects of Game as presented on this blog (or at least some descriptions of it in practice) hair-raising I think that it is a bona fide attempt to reconstruct masculinity after the feminist A-bomb.

    However I am worried that it focuses solely on sexual attraction. A man who bases his entire manhood on attracting and controlling women is a pimp whose masculinity serves no greater purpose than himself. Men are set a lot of store by their manhood, so societies have traditionally made serving one’s nation or clan a manly virtue. Now society will inevitably have a few pimps but if every man is, or tries to become, a pimp we’re in trouble.

    A woman who bases her entire feminine identity on being sexually attractive to men would be like one of DA’s porn girls; a grotesque charicature with no real firm identity or purpose. Few women want to be the complete pawns of men like porn stars, but plenty want to spend their lives on fashion, spas, designer cosmetics and an obsessive focus on physical appearance. I like fashion and I like looking good, but what type of femininity has no concept of motherhood?

    I’m all for reconstructing gender roles and teaching people the differences between men and women. But we also have to relearn to value less sexy but constructive variations of masculine and feminine. If that happens beta providers will have a much easier time of it.

    Like


  114. Unfortunately, neither of these articles really tell us much.

    I don’t think they guy who took his wife’s name is so bad. He says he did it because he felt closer to her father than to his own, so it looks like he wants to identify himself with a father figure rather than a bio-dad whom he hates and wishes to spite. That’s a bit different from taking a woman’s name for feminism’s sake.

    The cuckold wins because, even if he didn’t really say what his wife says he did, and even if he is a fetishist who got off on it, the fact of being publicly cuckolded is worse than the other guy’s name change.

    Like


  115. A woman who bases her entire feminine identity on being sexually attractive to men would be like one of DA’s porn girls

    Interestingly, for years, I’ve always complained that women just aren’t sexual, and I’ve stated that if women wanted to be sexual, they’d dress and act like porn stars in order to attract men in order to have sex. Thus, per my horrid excuse for logic, since women dress in mostly non-sexual clothing, they don’t want sex, and women simply use sex as a tool to trap idiot beta providers into marriage.

    But we also have to relearn to value less sexy but constructive variations of masculine and feminine

    The problem is that those less sexy variations are useless for sex. One could careless about motherhood if one is planning on going out to simply bang women.

    Like


  116. BTW Joe T, women with unrealistic expectations are nothing new. In “Emma”, published in 1815, the pretty, sweet but rather dim and unsophisticated Harriet Smith very nearly accepts the proposal of a rather stolid farmer but her best friend Emma convinces her that she’d be throwing herself away in such a marriage. There’s an actual line where the voice of reason declare “There is nothing so easy as to raise a young woman’s expectations!”

    You can’t blame feminism for this.

    Like


  117. on December 2, 2008 at 1:02 am Days of Broken Arrows

    Wife aside, the guys is setting a TERRIBLE example for his kids by staying with her. He’s Marty McFly from “Back to the Future,” a loser whose stupidity infests his family.

    Also, the 26-year-old better hope he doesn’t get Nifonged. Regretted sex = Rape in Feminist America.

    Like


  118. Two stories re Italian guys and their adoring mothers …

    1) Not uncommon for Italian moms to soothe and quiet a tantrummy baby boy by sucking its cock. Really-truly: I’ve heard this both from Italian guys and Italian moms. No wonder Italian guys expect respect and even worship from women.

    2) An American woman friend who spent seven years in Italy — much of it enjoying Italian romance — told me that nothing’s more charming than an Italian guy, but only when he’s in pursuit. They’re apparently some of the world’s great seducers. But once they’ve bedded a gal, they quickly lose interest. (In other words, it’s all about his prowess as a seducer.) She also reported that a lot of her Italians loverboys had a tendency to grunt out “Mama!” as they came. FWIW, my friend wound up moving to Paris and marrying a Frenchman.

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  119. You think that guy is the uber-beta? Go and check out some of the cuckold forums out there (http://www.cuckolds.com/forums/). Makes this story sound normal…

    Like


  120. MB ,

    The Italian men in my family haven’t been good husbands. My grandfather once tried to pick up a waitress at a family wedding where his wife, children and in-laws were all present. His sons, my uncles, have not to my knowledge been that extreme but all have been divorced by their wives for infidelity.

    No disrespect of course, to the Italian men who post here. My relatives are not ambassadors for Italians.

    Like


  121. Joe T —

    “you raise some very good questions, which unfortunately I cannot answer as I’m not a very good amateur anthropologist.

    I think a lot of the questions you raise have to do with subjective tastes, though, and so are, at the end of the day, almost unanswerable.

    It’s often been brought up on this website, that women in non-western cultures (like Russia, Eastern Europe and East Asia) seem much more amenable to the mundane charms of western “beta” males than, for instance, the men of their own cultures.

    I have an old friend with whom I worked on Capitol Hill, who was a self-described “uber-geek”. He was the crystallized essence of every nerdy stereotype — major Star Trek and sci-fi fan, Unix expert, socially awkward. In fact, he was severely autistic as a young child. And not terribly good-looking, either (about a 5, a 6 on a very good day). But he was, and is, brilliant — a linguist who became fluent in both Russian and Mandarin… a policy wonk extraordinaire, etc. On top of that, he had of what Roissy would call the stereotypical “beta” ideas, values, and political and social philosophies, including being a staunch feminist.

    To shorten a very long story, for years, my friend struck out miserably approaching DC women.

    Then after our boss lost an election in 1994, he got a gig at the US Embassy in Moscow (when he was about 30). At one of his first nights out at a club, he met a 19 year-old Russian beauty (most guys would probably rank her a solid 8), who spoke almost no English. He asked her out, and they were married within a year. And they’re still married, and as far as I know, she’s been faithful all the way through. He is now serving at the US Embassy in another major world capital.

    Now, how many people out there can say, with a straight face, that he would ever have met and married a woman of that quality in the US — particularly in a city like DC, where even average young women would never give a guy like this the time of day?”

    ————————

    No offense, but completely bad analysis of the situation my friend. First off, Eastern European girls do not like betas. If anything, in general, they are bigger alpha-hunters, gold-diggers than anyone. They want to go directly to the top. There are plenty of nice ones, but you’ll have to look around a lot.

    Your buddy got to Russia in 1994!! 3 years after the Soviet Union collapsed!! Any Westerner in Russia in 1994 would have been a god and able to pretty much pick any woman. Back then, he probably could have gone to a club in a wheelchair and scored. The fact that he scooped up the first decent chick that even talked to him underlines his beta-ishness. He could have waited another 2 months and landed a supermodel. But either way, good for him.. It’s nice to see a nice guy actually get what he deserves in life, rather than getting shot down and shut-out. It was a once in a lifetime event and he held a winning ticket just by being in the right place at the right time. Also, the age difference doesn’t matter for Russian girls if it’s within reason. One of my exes had a 34 year old multimillionaire boyfriend when she was 16 that used to take her on trips around Europe. And that’s not that unusual if you’re an extremely attractive girl. Suffice to say in this case, my relationship to her was only physical, cuz I can’t really respect a girl like that anyways. 😉

    Secondly, American betas can do well in Asian cultures because your average male there is pretty beta-ish. While Asians can be agressive as hell collectively, as individuals they are pretty mild. So your average American chump goes over there and becomes the most outgoing, fearless, confident person around. Asians are like the European Honeybees that can’t react when the African (American person) Killer bee invades their territory. The more aggressive species crowds them out. I’m pretty sure this is why most Asian countries are xenophobic and quite good at collective action. The fact that American betas score over there doesn’t prove that betas are valued. It just shows that the bell curve vis-a-vis the native population is shifted over and what is beta here becomes alpha there… and alphas still get all the play.

    Your friend wouldn’t have stood a chance with a good-looking Russian girl in the last few years. The expat rallying cry the last few years has been “Bring back the Crisis Days!” which shows you how much more demanding Russian girls have become. However, with the economy tanking, there are already a lot of Russians losing their jobs or haven’t been paid their salaries for 2/3 months now. I’d say this is prime time for foreign men to come to Russia and try to pick up girls. The Ukrainian grivnya is 7.5 to the dollar after being 4.5 in September and prices (in Griven) are plummeting as well, so you get lower local prices and a higher exchange rate, so you’re good to go now.

    I know Roissy’s ready to take a tour!

    Like


  122. Blowhard

    They’re apparently some of the world’s great seducers. But once they’ve bedded a gal, they quickly lose interest. (In other words, it’s all about his prowess as a seducer.)

    As much as I would love to berate Italian men–having been shafted repeatedly by one (in a good and a bad way) I must say that you describe a certain type of personality; one who covers their insecurities through sexual conquest. If I could improve my chances of never encountering this type of insecure asshole by avoiding all Italian men from now till eternity I would surely do so, but alas…..it’s not that simple. My only regret is that he did NOT quickly lose interest.

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  123. 11minutes, holy shit!

    For a while I thought there couldn’t possible be anything weirder than those cuckold forums out there… but then I thought of it… could it be… yes… NO… yes, there’s an even creepier emasculation fantasy out there:

    http://www.eunuch.org

    Like


  124. “@ Joe T. Anonymous – you must be desperate to say you’d want to fuck her. She doesn’t even look that good for her age.”

    nah, man. It’d be fun. How often have you screwed a girl you just met in the bathroom? I’ve done it twice at house parties with locked bathroom doors, and had a great time, both times. She looks younger than her age, and I’ve never fucked with a crowd outside cheering you on. Lighten up — it would be fun.

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  125. Well, first of all it’s as many have said, hard to say what the Husband is doing wrt Feldman. He’s said nothing, smart move, and who knows, maybe he’s quietly testing the kids to see if they are his.

    It’s pretty clear, the woman was drunk, but not so drunk she couldn’t refuse a breathalyzer test, give a false name, and run away from her husband. Her excuse is that she was roofied because “I go to Church every Sunday” (the excuse of every sinner) and her kids were with her husband at the game.

    She thought it was “hot” no doubt, figured she wouldn’t get caught, and it was probably not the first time either (public sex with a stranger). She’s suing because she’s desperate to save her marriage and her relationship with her kids. Both of which are dead.

    Now here’s where I differ from everyone else. Being a man is about a hell of a lot more than how many women you can screw. Or if women screw around on you (something men can’t really control or affect much, other than careful selection, and even then human beings change, or get fooled).

    Bottom line: there are three kids, two of whom are not even teenagers. Leave the kids with Mom, even if they’re not his own, and it’s dead certain Mom’s hook-up of the night will be over, molesting the girls and beating the hell out of the boy.

    A MAN will stick with the kids and keep the marriage going until the youngest is 18. Because a man puts kids first. The guy didn’t ask for it, and maybe the kids are none of them his.

    BUT … if the husband does not look out for them, no one else will. A MAN looks out for more than just his own. It sucks to have stick in a marriage where the wife is a proven ho. If it was me, I’d hope I’d have the courage to do it, just for the kids sake. Grind it out so the kids are not molested and/or beaten to death, a pretty common occurrence with Mom’s “boyfriend” every day on the police blotter.

    Of course no sex with the woman. She obviously needs testing for STDs. But if the husband does not look after the kids, who will? Yeah the kids might not be his. No one else will PROTECT them. It’s up to the husband. Then after the youngest is 18, he can dump her ass.

    It’s interesting to look at the female-oriented forums like Dlisted and so on. Women love the gal and are all “you go girl.” It’s up to women to shame this sort of thing, the more it happens the more men will just do the ‘spread your seed’ kind of thing. Which is probably what a lot of women want, enough of them want it they “set the market” sadly including that for women who want marriage (enough Lois Feldmans and there is no more marriage).

    Like


  126. Sara says, “If I could improve my chances of never encountering this type of insecure asshole by avoiding all Italian men from now till eternity I would surely do so, but alas…..it’s not that simple. My only regret is that he did NOT quickly lose interest.”

    It really is very simple:

    Utterly obliterate any and all victim mentality related to consensual sex. Then proceed accordingly.

    This will make you a bad target because any predator/victim dynamic in consensual sex is an illusion that assholes need to sustain in order to power their ego. They need to feel like they’re damaging, using, and finally harming you.

    Just don’t give them that. Works the same for men by the way.

    I am utterly repellant to flat out jerks, and weak men with integrity issues simply fail to get very close to me, regardless of how long they stay interested, and I choose to trifle with them.

    Remember, pity has no place in mate selection. A guy who doesn’t earn your respect and trust shouldn’t have it. Assholes eventually get frustrated with someone who gives only in proportion to what they’re getting.

    Love people…express that, and don’t mind so much about whether they deserve love. Anybody who hasn’t committed a serious crime deserves some love, and hey it might as well come from you…but just because you love someone doesn’t mean you have to give them actual physical benefits with that.

    Love is free, and the worst risk is that they might not love you back. Sex on the other hand, and a relationship of some kind, makes you vulnerable to them, and is too much risk to take on an irresponsible person.

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  127. whiskey

    it’s dead certain Mom’s hook-up of the night will be over, molesting the girls and beating the hell out of the boy.

    Most of the time when I bang women, including 1 night stands, I don’t beat the kids on the way out. I don’t know anybody who does. Why, do you?

    A MAN will stick with the kids and keep the marriage going until the youngest is 18. Because a man puts kids first. The guy didn’t ask for it, and maybe the kids are none of them his.

    Why, so he can waste his prime dating years being committed to his whore of a wife while she continues to fuck strangers? This woman clearly isn’t mom material. My take – get custody of the kids (if they are his), get a divorce, and get the hell out. No “MAN” would want his children raised by her. I’d rather raise them alone, and at best, she gets a weekend or 2 a month with them.

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  128. I’d be even MORE inclined to nail her in a men’s bathroom stall with a dozen people outside the stall cheering me on! That’s a story for the grandkids.

    *Imagines old gray-bearded RagTag sitting in a rocking chair with a group of innocent little wide-eyed grandchildren sitting around him in a semi-circle telling them about how he “nailed” “a whore” in a men’s bathroom stall with a dozen people outside the stall cheering him on.*

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  129. Dynamo Kiev,
    You missed our discussion about dating Russian men. Below is the link. Any comments?

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/11/18/love-in-the-time-of-game/#comment-37669

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  130. “*Imagines old gray-bearded RagTag sitting in a rocking chair with a group of innocent little wide-eyed grandchildren sitting around him in a semi-circle telling them about how he “nailed” “a whore” in a men’s bathroom stall with a dozen people outside the stall cheering him on.*”

    *vomiting*

    If mom and dad find out about that Grandpa would be sent straight to a home.

    Like


  131. Hi sestamibi –

    I forgot about Mezvinsky.

    This whole topic unearths some funny leads, though…

    http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-03/2006-03-13-voa32.cfm?CFID=73154710&CFTOKEN=52907941

    Like


  132. I give her no better than a 4 or 5 from those photos

    She’s a 7, IMHO.

    As far as I can tell from the somewhat grainy photos of the whoring wife, she’s a fine cougar. She seems to be in reasonably good shape and has a decent facial bone structure. Based on her behavior, she really likes to shag. Of course, she’s 38 years old. Would I fuck her if had no moral (I’m married) and logistical (6000 miles away from her) reasons not to? Of course I would. (I’m 35 myself.) I would wear a condom, though.

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  133. DK,

    your statements about white men and asian women demonstrate the dangers of practicing amateur social science:

    Secondly, American betas can do well in Asian cultures because your average male there is pretty beta-ish. While Asians can be agressive as hell collectively, as individuals they are pretty mild. So your average American chump goes over there and becomes the most outgoing, fearless, confident person around. Asians are like the European Honeybees that can’t react when the African (American person) Killer bee invades their territory. The more aggressive species crowds them out. I’m pretty sure this is why most Asian countries are xenophobic and quite good at collective action. The fact that American betas score over there doesn’t prove that betas are valued. It just shows that the bell curve vis-a-vis the native population is shifted over and what is beta here becomes alpha there… and alphas still get all the play.

    everything i know about this, learned from friends who lived in asian countries, and men who married asian women, points in the exact opposite direction. women in these countries value white men because they tend to make for better providers than the men in their own country, who they often view as lazy and likely to cheat or abandon them. i knew an american living in thailand who married a thai woman. her father had taken a second wife, apparently this was a not uncommon practice at some point, and had a whole other family. she was so worried about a man doing this to her that she basically gave her husband freedom to mess around with other women so long as it didn’t become anything serious.

    this idea of the ‘great white hunter’ going to asian countries and shooing aside kowtowing asian men and bedding their women, it makes for a interesting fantasy, but it doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny. do a google search of ‘thai women western men’ and almost every link will affirm what i’m saying.

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  134. Pupu had a nightmare and woke up crying last night. She dreamt of being dumped out of the blue by an unknown Russian man.

    This tragic event may have been related to three independent events: 1) Pupu’s diligent reading of this blog; 2) her participation in eating a giant male turkey during the past holiday season; and 3) her anxiety with an upcoming event.

    There was no Russian woman involved in the nightmare last night. The tragedy was solely between Pupu and the Russian man who was a tall middle aged blue-eye blond with golden rim spectacles.

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  135. Lance,

    I think both you AND DK are both right. I think much of the problem comes from using “Asian” as a blanket term for a whole bunch of countries that can be quite different from each other. I think the other part of the problem is that in many Asian countries, the middle-class men act like the beta provider stereotype of being less outgoing and bold and individualistic in their public behavior, but in their private lives regarding things like infidelity and child-rearing, they actually fit the alpha sterotypes more.

    Like


  136. T,

    you’re right. most of what i know is specific to thailand. i have, however, noticed similar trends in other places i’ve been. in peru for instance, there’s plenty of local women chasing white dudes in all the tourist spots. and in lima, i met quite a few couples composed of beta white dudes and peruvian women.

    my problem with kiev’s theory is that it wants to posit the men as some sort of sexual conquistador when, quite the opposite, it’s usually the women who are actively pursuing. and it’s not because any of these guys have some sort of individual magnetism, but simply because they’re white and from the developed world and would make for better providers than local men.

    one night i was out in lima with some fellow travelers and some local girls. there was one girl who was quite good-looking and she acted the part. she kept trying to dominate the conversation and get us buying drinks. i ignored her. i put her in her place a couple of times. next thing i know, she jumps in my lap and starts kissing me. typical. after we left the bar she tried to take me somewhere and get me to buy her breakfast. i said no, so she gets on the phone and calls her english boyfriend. he comes, buys her food and takes care of her drunk ass. on whatever continent you’re on, that ain’t alpha.

    ps – good point about angry white male vs. guilty white male. this is an idea i’ve had for some time, but you expressed it much better than i’ve been able to say it.

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  137. hello:

    “*Imagines old gray-bearded RagTag sitting in a rocking chair with a group of innocent little wide-eyed grandchildren sitting around him in a semi-circle telling them about how he “nailed” “a whore” in a men’s bathroom stall with a dozen people outside the stall cheering him on.*”

    *vomiting*

    If mom and dad find out about that Grandpa would be sent straight to a home.

    I thought the grandfather in “Little Miss Sunshine” was pretty damn cool.

    Like


  138. This woman has no one to blame but herself. SHE drank and SHE got herself drunk BUT I am appalled at how no one stepped up to help her. It’s not their responsibility, but GOOD people would help.

    1. She got drunk at a friends house. They could have stopped serving her alcohol, but chose not to. In fact, it sounds as if the hostess continue to fill her glass so that she wouldn’t notice how much she was drinking

    2. Her husband is quoted as saying he thought she was too drunk to go to the game, but took her anyway. He could have taken her home.

    3. She asked her husband to escort her to the bathroom. He refused. He knew she was completely toasted and didn’t want to help her.

    4. She staggered into the men’s room by mistake. Any guy in there could have escorted her back to the women’s room.

    5. The guy who had sex with her obviously knew she was toasted and took advantage of that and her drunken consent. He could have been a bigger man and helped her back to her seat.

    6. A crowd of men cheered them on, despite knowing that she was obviously impaired beyond the ability to think logically. A man, a REAL man would have stopped the event and seen that she got back to her seat where she obviously had friends/husband/someone waiting for her.

    So many opportunities for SO MANY people to act in a way to protect another human being. None did. To me that is the most depressing part of this story.

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  139. — So many opportunities for SO MANY people to act in a way to protect another human being. None did. To me that is the most depressing part of this story.

    Whiskey way overstates his points, but he’s spot-on about his general point that as beta males get pushed out of the mating market, they will feel less invested in doing their part to maintain the social fabric.

    Instead, they’ll become more mysogynistic in various passive ways… like the guys who failed to get the drunk slut out of the men’s bathroom.

    — The guy who had sex with her obviously knew she was toasted and took advantage of that and her drunken consent. He could have been a bigger man and helped her back to her seat.

    I believe he was pretty drunk himself. If that’s the case, I’m with Camille Paglia on the so-called date rape — the man is no more and no less responsible for a sex act than the woman, if they are both drunk.

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  140. on December 2, 2008 at 1:20 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    JaJaJa said:

    “A man, a REAL man would have stopped the event and seen that she got back to her seat where she obviously had friends/husband/someone waiting for her.”

    We’ve already established on this blog that there is no payoff for chivalry. Women spit on men who behave like this and other men will think you’re a chump — if they don’t kick your ass. The only way you can be “chivalrous” is to be in a uniform, but the only reason women like that is “uniform fetish.”

    Chivarly worked pre-1966. We don’t live in that society anymore.

    PS — Go to YouTube and check out the video to Joe Jackson’s old song “Real Men.” Look what happens when a guy tries to do the “right” thing. Jackson was onto this in 1982.

    Like


  141. http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008811270373

    wow, bitch plans on TOTALLY shirking responsibility for her actions.

    A Carroll woman who allegedly had sex in a men’s room during an Iowa Hawkeye football game in Minneapolis last Saturday says she drank before kickoff, that she has no memory of the man, the stall, or the small crowd that cheered until police showed up.

    What Lois Feldman, 38, remembers is the humiliation that followed.

    “It’s I’ve ruined my life,” a tearful Feldman said Wednesday. “Not just the incident but the press.”

    Feldman, a married mother of three, has been the target of Internet jokes and prank phone calls since her story appeared in the Twin Cities media and spread across Web sites there and in Iowa.

    She was fired Wednesday from her job as administrator at a retirement home in Carroll.

    “I don’t know what happened, but I don’t deny that it did happen because obviously there are police reports,” Feldman said.

    Those reports allege that a security guard saw Feldman and Ross Walsh, 26, of Linden having sex in a restroom at the Metrodome during Iowa’s 55-0 win over Minnesota. Police reported more than a dozen people cheered the two.

    The guard flagged down a campus police officer, who pushed his way through the crowd, opened the door and separated Feldman and Walsh, who were ticketed for misdemeanor indecent conduct. Police described both as upset, intoxicated and uncooperative.

    Feldman said she did not know Walsh, who could not be reached for comment.

    A police report said Walsh was at the game with his girlfriend.

    Chuck Miner, deputy chief of the University of Minnesota police department, said officers wrote the citations and tracked down Feldman’s husband.

    “I’m not sure how they made contact with her husband, but they needed her husband to help identify her” because Feldman had given police a fictitious middle name, he said.

    Police didn’t measure either person’s blood-alcohol content, but Miner said Feldman’s claim that she was too drunk to recall the incident is “probably an accurate statement.”

    “That’s why my husband and I feel like somehow I had been drugged,” she said. “At one point, I was fine, and at another point, I was belligerent and combative and didn’t know who I was.”

    Feldman said her husband, Kelly, faults himself because he did not accompany her when she left her seat to use the restroom before halftime.

    Feldman, who describes herself as a light drinker, had wine at the home of friends before the game. Her hosts refilled her glass each time it was low, “so I’m sure I drank a lot,” she said.

    Feldman said her husband accompanied her to the game without their friends.

    “He said. ‘I didn’t realize it was that bad,’ ” she said.

    Feldman said she remembers sitting in the stands one moment and “being slammed around by a cop and screaming” the next. Feldman said her attorney has encouraged her to fight the ticket. She faces a fine or up to 90 days in jail.

    “He feels I was taken advantage of in my state of mind,” she said. “This is not me. We’re a very good family. This shouldn’t happen.”

    Miner, the campus police officer, said a legal challenge would be a long shot.

    “It’s spelled out in the law in Minnesota that intoxication is not a defense to any crime,” he said.

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  142. D of BA,

    I’m not talking about chivalry. I’m talking about being a decent human being.

    If you saw some drunk guy being talked out of his wallet in the men’s bathroom, would you cheer on the guys taking his wallet or would you help the drunk to get back to his friends?

    If you saw a 40 year old man having a heart attack, would you call 911? Or would you say, it’s his own fault, he ate himself into obesity, sat on his ass playing video games and smoked cigarettes every day, let him deal with it himself?

    Like


  143. PA. Adults who blame others for their weaknesses are losers. You had a bad childhood? Get over it. Improve yourself.

    You can not justify being a selfish prig with the statement “Girls won’t date me so I don’t have to be nice”. That is simply a cop out.

    You get what you give in this life.

    Like


  144. on December 2, 2008 at 2:04 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    “You get what you give in this life.”

    This is sheer bullshit, and a remnant of the old superstitious, religious society we’ve discarded.

    This is not a fair world. Some people are born rich and beautiful and get everything. Others are poor and diseased and get nothing.

    You don’t get what you give. It’s a meaningless platitude like that stupid Beatles lyric “the love you make is equal to the love you take.” Some people get it all, some get nothing. Sometimes bad guys win.

    Like


  145. on December 2, 2008 at 2:05 pm Peregrine John

    You get what you give in this life.

    I wish.

    Like


  146. <i PA. Adults who blame others for their weaknesses are losers. You had a bad childhood? Get over it. Improve yourself.

    When did I ever blame my weaknesses on others, you dumb twat?

    Like


  147. PA. Adults who blame others for their weaknesses are losers. You had a bad childhood? Get over it. Improve yourself.

    When did I ever blame my weaknesses on other people, you dumb twat?

    Like


  148. You can not justify being a selfish prig with the statement “Girls won’t date me so I don’t have to be nice”.

    Since it looks like you’re making it about me: I’m married, and had no problems dating when I was single.

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  149. If you saw some drunk guy being talked out of his wallet in the men’s bathroom, would you cheer on the guys taking his wallet or would you help the drunk to get back to his friends?

    except in this case, BOTH of them are drunk. i wasn’t there, i don’t know, but is it clear that one was taking advantage of the other? or did it just look like two drunk people, both of whom had impaired judgment, having a random hookup?

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  150. they will feel less invested in doing their part to maintain the social fabric

    There’s a likely chance of me never having sex again, and yet I’d probably try and get the drunk woman out of the bathroom or at least call security to assist, so why I am a magical fluke?

    date rape

    David’s policy is to stay away from drunk women.

    We’ve already established on this blog that there is no payoff for chivalry.

    The payoff is internal happiness and self-respect.

    Like


  151. yet I’d probably try and get the drunk woman out of the bathroom or at least call security to assist, so why I am a magical fluke?

    You’re probably just a decent guy and virtue is good for its own sake. The point that I think Whiskey keeps making is that a critical mass of Betas will not be as virtuous like you, and for that reason society will suck.

    Like


  152. Society always has sucked for the individual.

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  153. “What kind of man would willingly accommodate his own dishonor? I’ll tell you what kind of man — a man who lives in fear. ”

    Ironic coming from a guy who is clearly terrified of the world around him and deliberately seeks out small ponds to be a big fish.

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  154. on December 2, 2008 at 2:52 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    People keep talking about “rescuing” the woman, but what if the woman did not want to be helped?

    My guess is she would have smacked anyone who tried to open that bathroom stall door. And then the “rescuerer” would have been facing charges for violating privacy, etc.

    Like


  155. anyone know of any cell phone videos or pictures of this going down? would be hilarious to see.

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  156. You’re probably just a decent guy and virtue is good for its own sake.

    So if I’m a decent guy, why aren’t other sexless men decent as well?

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  157. The most decent guy involved was the cop who put an end to their disgusting display and cited the two of them. The last thing I want to deal with when taking my little boy to a ball game is a couple of depraved exhibitionists getting it on in the restroom.

    This is as bad as what used to go down in public parks in San Francisco and Seattle all the time back in the 1980s.

    Anyone who thinks it was the woman who needed to be “rescued” from the situation needs to get their head checked. It’s the general public that needs to be rescued from these whores.

    Like


  158. The pictures are really worth a thousand words.
    1) The dude who boned her, veteran though he may be, was hardly a ripply exemplar of masculinity. He looks like a dork. The fact that he’s draped himself on ugly women in his photos indicates that, in fact, he ain’t some great schlong meister; he just won the lottery that day.
    2) The estimable Mrs. Feldman looks like a first-rate drama whore. The goofball pained smile and wide eyes -not botox eyes mind you; those are neurotic eyes. She’s such a gratuitous “look at me” type as to be beyond parody.

    What happened here is hubby was paying attention to the game, rather than his little snuggle pookums. Snuggle pookums grew gradually more and more petulant that nobody was paying any attention to her, and fueled it up with booze (people generally get really drunk when they’re having a bad time). Mr. Walsh’s seduction technique was probably something along the lines of bellowing, “yeeeaaaah baby, show us your tits.” She probably did, and one thing led to another. Her boning this douchebag in a public toilet was directly an aggressive act against her schnook husband, who wasn’t treating her like a princess. She’s done it before, and she’ll do it again. I’ve banged lots of women like this. Most cheating women aren’t cheating because they’re overwhelmed by anybody’s “alphaness” -it’s an aggressive act against their borefriend. This is a textbook example, both from her appearance and from the nasty setting. You people who think they’re swingers or cuckold fetishists don’t know what you’re talking about.

    While on the topic of physiognomy, the broad whose hubby changed his name looks like she’s never had a proper penis-induced orgasm in her life. Just lookin’ at her deranged avian expression of “pride,” you can tell she don’t have a G-spot. I’d say she’s physically a 7 though, even though she has turkey neck.

    Like


  159. Lupo, I think you are exactly right.

    The fact that she went so far as to blame her husband after the fact only underscores her seething resentment. My guess is she felt jilted herself because her husband lost interest in her.

    Like


  160. @DA
    There’s a likely chance of me never having sex again…

    David’s policy is to stay away from drunk women.

    these two things are intimately related, and not in the obvious way.

    @Nicole
    correction: society has always sucked for the individual who allows his or herself, or is forced, to play a subservient role. the beauty of the modern liberal democracy is that fulfillment is there for the taking. all one needs is the balls and the ability to grab it.

    @Lupo
    don’t you think that you’re jumping to an awful lot of confusions based on a couple of pictures? your take on this situation could be right on, and then again, it could be completely wrong.

    Like


  161. “don’t you think that you’re jumping to an awful lot of confusions based on a couple of pictures? your take on this situation could be right on, and then again, it could be completely wrong.”

    No, actually, I don’t think I’m jumping to an awful lot of conclusions based on a couple of pictures. I’m old and mean and vile; I’ve seen a lot and experienced a lot. I’ve boned both kinds of women lots of times, and their facial expressions reveal a lot.

    For what it is worth, it’s been scientifically proven you can spot G-spot enabled women by their walks.

    “A Woman’s History of Vaginal Orgasm is Discernible from
    Her Walk
    Aurelie Nicholas, MA,* Stuart Brody, PhD,† Pascal de Sutter, PhD,* and François de Carufel, PhD” Journal of Sexual Medicine, 2008 page 2119-2124

    There should be a followup study on spotting avian frigid beeyatches. I know I’ve gotten pretty good at it. And yes, women who don’t come from dicks are broken and should be avoided. Roissy should write a mighty post about this. I know he knows about it, as he’s boned enough rooskies to know what the real problem with American women is.

    Like


  162. RagTag — the woman’s selection criteria pretty much assures various low-life scum being the choice. Not someone like you. You read about this in the papters every day.

    Reality — the guy has to think of the kids first. If HE does not protect them no one will. Simple as that. Mom WILL get custody, if he divorces at best the kids won’t be molested or beaten by whatever low-life guys are over at Mom’s every other weekend. Yes, the guy might have to waste prime dating years. Sometimes Men have to sacrifice.

    JaJaJa — we are talking social aggregates here, public policy, not individuals. If you depend on the individual honesty and integrity of strangers you soon end up with a society like Pakistan’s or the Congo’s. Social institutions, mores, and culture MATTER.

    DA — social expectations don’t just “happen.” It takes a lot of social conditioning for men to wade into conflict and rescue people instead of stand by. Among them, investment in the society. Stuff like Kitty Genovese does not just “happen.”

    Like


  163. Whiskey–

    Kitty Genovese was pretty much a special case, as a fairly “out” lesbian and daughter of the Genovese crime family. It is entirely likely that the neighbors knew who was involved and were scared $#^!less of interfering with mob business, possibly assuming that some other family was trying to send a message to the Genovese clan and any civilians intervening were likely to end up DEAD.

    Like


  164. There’s a much simpler explanation of what happened to Kitty Genovese. it’s called Bystander Effect:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

    There is a paragraph on Kitty Genovese in that article.

    Like


  165. A woman who bases her entire feminine identity on being sexually attractive to men would be like one of DA’s porn girls; a grotesque charicature with no real firm identity or purpose. Few women want to be the complete pawns of men like porn stars, but plenty want to spend their lives on fashion, spas, designer cosmetics and an obsessive focus on physical appearance.

    Epic comment Hello

    Like


  166. whiskey

    Mom WILL get custody, if he divorces at best the kids won’t be molested or beaten by whatever low-life guys are over at Mom’s every other weekend.

    Whiskey, the mom has now been charged as a sex offender, although she may not need to register for the offense. She also has been shown to drink to excess.

    The father has a good shot at custody, and a perfectly legitimate reason to file for divorce. There is no good reason to remain married to such a profligate tramp. Keeping her in the family home may be injurious to the children’s psychological well-being. Hell, I know a convicted felon who won custody of his kids because he cleaned up his act and fought for it. He even faced allegations of sexual abuse of his daughter (proven false of course).

    If the father is an ordinary guy without serious problems of his own, I’d say he’s got better than 50-50 odds of getting primary custody — if he’s willing to take up the burden, that is.

    Like


  167. Being a man is about a hell of a lot more than how many women you can screw. Or if women screw around on you (something men can’t really control or affect much, other than careful selection, and even then human beings change, or get fooled).
    This is the truth. Plenty of people are fooled or have spouses that change on them. If you marry someone when you are 25, chances are you will be married for 50 years if the two of you make it to old age. That’s a very long time for two human beings to stay together and not change.

    Bottom line: there are three kids, two of whom are not even teenagers. Leave the kids with Mom, even if they’re not his own, and it’s dead certain Mom’s hook-up of the night will be over, molesting the girls and beating the hell out of the boy
    A MAN will stick with the kids and keep the marriage going until the youngest is 18. Because a man puts kids first. The guy didn’t ask for it, and maybe the kids are none of them his
    BUT … if the husband does not look out for them, no one else will. A MAN looks out for more than just his own. It sucks to have stick in a marriage where the wife is a proven ho. If it was me, I’d hope I’d have the courage to do it, just for the kids sake. Grind it out so the kids are not molested and/or beaten to death, a pretty common occurrence with Mom’s “boyfriend” every day on the police blotter

    See, the problem is I’m black, 21, and we would fight like cats and dogs at times. Otherwise, I would rethink my no marriage rule. You are a real man. Too many men run away from their responsibilities when it comes to the children they sire. A man does not divorce his children when he divorces his wife. Some men are so backwards that they get a new wife who has children, whom they will spend their last dime on*. Meanwhile, their biological children are going without or just scraping by.

    Like


  168. chic:

    A woman who bases her entire feminine identity on being sexually attractive to men would be like one of DA’s porn girls; a grotesque charicature with no real firm identity or purpose. Few women want to be the complete pawns of men like porn stars, but plenty want to spend their lives on fashion, spas, designer cosmetics and an obsessive focus on physical appearance.

    Epic comment Hello

    Chic, none of that gives you carte blanche to be a frigid penis-hater.

    Hope this helps

    Like


  169. PA, when I used “you” it was used as a generalization and not directed personally at you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

    David Alexander – I hope you are not a fluke. I would hope more people were like you. Getting a security guard is exactly the right thing to do.

    T. Both were drunk and I guess my point is not that we should rescue women, but we should help other people if it’s easily within our power.

    What if the guy had a wife he loved, 8 months pregnant in preterm labor at home on bed rest and had been barred from having sex with her until after she delivered? He’d be easy prey for a slut, but don’t you think he’d appreciate someone stopping him from making a bad choice while intoxicated?

    Where were this guy’s friends? Why didn’t someone tell him it was a bad idea to have sex in the bathroom? First off it’s illegal. As someone else mentioned above, little kids could come in. The woman could have all sorts of nasty diseases. She could cry “rape” later.

    Only one person in that restroom stepped forward and got security. The rest were cheering on BOTH individuals. They had no empathy for either the woman or their fellow man. I would bet most of their pleasure was in knowing that both people were making HUGE mistakes.

    Like


  170. And yes, women who don’t come from dicks are broken and should be avoided

    Ummmmmm

    This would be me.

    😦

    Like


  171. Tupac saidChic, none of that gives you carte blanche to be a frigid penis-hater.

    Hope this helps

    Tupac, I am very afraid of men like you.

    JaJaJa, you sound like a decent person. I think I would try to help the woman or at least command one of the men standing around watching to help her.

    Like


  172. on December 2, 2008 at 7:28 pm ironrailsironweights

    I generally dislike black-and-white photos, too artsy fartsy, but this GNP is just too thick, rich, and luxuriant to pass up.

    Peter

    Like


  173. on December 2, 2008 at 7:40 pm ironrailsironweights

    Where were this guy’s friends? Why didn’t someone tell him it was a bad idea to have sex in the bathroom?

    He probably told his friends, who no doubt were as loaded as he was, that he was going to Drain the Weasel, when in fact he ended up Hiding the Salami.

    Peter

    Like


  174. Chicnoir; you’re like 12 years old or something, so don’t sweat it … yet. If you find yourself in your 30s lying on your back all stuck in your head, holding your breath and saying to yourself, “I may be on my back having penetrative heteronormative sex, but I could be president if I REALLY WANTED TO…” like most Americano women: you’re doing it wrong.

    Like


  175. PA, when I used “you” it was used as a generalization and not directed personally at you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

    No problem, I thought you meant me personally, sorry I was rude!

    Like


  176. Every time David Alexander posts, I want to pick up a knife and stab someone. I have this visceral disgust of such putrid, pandering human weakness.

    Like


  177. “‘Bottom line: there are three kids, two of whom are not even teenagers. Leave the kids with Mom, even if they’re not his own, and it’s dead certain Mom’s hook-up of the night will be over, molesting the girls and beating the hell out of the boy
    A MAN will stick with the kids and keep the marriage going until the youngest is 18. Because a man puts kids first. The guy didn’t ask for it, and maybe the kids are none of them his
    BUT … if the husband does not look out for them, no one else will. A MAN looks out for more than just his own. It sucks to have stick in a marriage where the wife is a proven ho. If it was me, I’d hope I’d have the courage to do it, just for the kids sake. Grind it out so the kids are not molested and/or beaten to death, a pretty common occurrence with Mom’s “boyfriend” every day on the police blotter’

    See, the problem is I’m black, 21, and we would fight like cats and dogs at times. Otherwise, I would rethink my no marriage rule. You are a real man. Too many men run away from their responsibilities when it comes to the children they sire. A man does not divorce his children when he divorces his wife. Some men are so backwards that they get a new wife who has children, whom they will spend their last dime on*. Meanwhile, their biological children are going without or just scraping by.”

    I heart you whiskey!! xoxox

    Like


  178. “And yes, women who don’t come from dicks are broken and should be avoided”

    Chances are they just haven’t been with the right man. The number of guys out there who can last and who know how to go fast, slow, and hard without it impaling you are all too few.

    Like


  179. “Ummmmmm

    This would be me.”

    You’re not broken honey, just find a good one. And then introduce me to his brother.

    Like


  180. You’re not broken honey, just find a good one. And then introduce me to his brother.

    😆

    [email protected]

    Like


  181. Re Chivalry:
    Chivalry would never have protected Lois Feldman in this circumstance. Chivalry only protected chaste women and whores were treated like whores. A drunk woman would have been considered questionable if not a full-blown strumpet. I, however, agree that keeping a drunk woman from being taken advantage of is a decency issue and not a chivalry one.

    Like


  182. chic:

    Tupac, I am very afraid of men like you.

    WHY? You make me sad. 😦

    I guess a handjob’s out of the question, eh?

    Like


  183. “Tupac, I am very afraid of men like you.”

    You fear harmless douchebags? You are too easily frightened.

    Like


  184. Being from rural Iowa, the chance is almost zero that any of the people are Jewish. Not zero, but almost zero. White gentiles can certainly be as beta as Jews, especially in the Midwest where they may still believe that women are essentially good, moral creatures. At least more Northeastern Jews know the truth.

    The guy she fucked is no “alpha”. He’s just a dude in the right place at the right time. We’ve all been there.

    I’d hit it, why not? Bang some blond married MILF? Hell yea. Great story to tell your buddies. I must start attending more college football games.

    Like


  185. Hey Chic, have you seen a pic of Naomi Campbell’s Russian boyfriend?

    http://www.catwalkqueen.tv/2008/08/naomi_campbells_4.html

    *fanning face*

    Apparently he is insisting upon her conversion to Orthodoxy. How anyone could “insist” she do anything is beyond me as I would probably run screaming if I met her, not to mention shielding my face.

    His fortune and battle-ready visage aside, it’s clear that by having the stones to make demands of her that he’s alpha to the level of Peter the Great. She may have met the man who can tame her.

    Like


  186. on December 3, 2008 at 2:07 am Benito Hoover

    Apparently he is insisting upon her conversion to Orthodoxy. How anyone could “insist” she do anything is beyond me as I would probably run screaming if I met her, not to mention shielding my face.
    ———————————————————————————–

    Naomi Campbell is still very attractive, a catch she is not for a man in her target tax bracket. Can she do better than this guy at this point of her life?

    No.

    Like


  187. Good comments, All. I held back for a few days because I wanted to see how tis was gonna play on the (feminist) blogosphere and so on, and sure enough, the still-forming consensus is that she was a “victim” of, you ready for this one?

    “Gray Rape”.

    Talk about a Theatre of the Absurd.

    I was also hoping that Mr. Feldman would have said something by now, but insofar as I know, he hasn’t. So, that doesn’t look good for him.

    Therefore, he gets my vote for the 2008 BOTY.

    Sad.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  188. Mr. Feldman also got my vote.

    As for all of this talk about rescuing the poor, helpless Mrs. Feldman, DoBA’s comment at 2:52 is spot on. The article in the Des Moines Register says the she was “uncooperative”.

    If I had walked into that bathroom, I wouldn’t have stood by and cheered them on. But I also wouldn’t have tried to separate the two drunken morons and possibly gotten myself into an altercation with both of them due to my “chivalry”. I would have just walked right back out and looked for the next closest place to piss. If I had seen a police officer on the way to the next nearest john, I probably would have mentioned something about the incident. Stupid people do stupid things and should face whatever consequences come as a result. It is not my place in the world to try unsuccessfully to make stupid people into smart ones.

    Like


  189. Also, to briefly address JaJaJa’s comments:

    I must concur with DBA, and this comes from Believer. The idea that one gets what they give in Life is a nice idea, but rarely is the case, if one has the guts to see the World as it is, and not as they wish it to be. If indeed what yove said was True, John McCain would be POTUS right now, a man who no matter what you may think of him, has given infinitely more to this country than Barack Obama.
    What Whiskey has spoken to, intense social conditioning of Males, rules, mores and perhaps most importantly, the idea that there was at least *some* fairness on the Dating/Mating Landscape, is all but Dead. It is completely understandable why Women would be wholly oblivious to this sine it doesn’t effect them, but it is brutally, painfully clear to millions of Men. And it is, with all due respect, the kind of thinking that leads to your statement, which also blinds one from seeing the clear and present reaction to such a state of affairs on the part of many Men.

    As I’ve speculated over on the Claire Jones thread, my guess is that we will see much more of this “passive Misogyny” in the months in years to come, and it will not be pretty. On the other end of the spectrum, get ready to hear of shootouts in “respectable” bars, jilted Betas bustin’ a cap in the gal, etc. And the Lois Feldman Affair will only go to cement the notion in the minds of American Men, that being a “Nice Guy” is a Fool’s Errand. Witness the refusal, if not out and out silence, on the part of women’s advocates to even call for accountability in this matter. And of course, there are voices-extremely shrill ones I might add-who cheer on Mrs. Feldman’s actions, as if it were all the fault of the hubbie and none of hers.

    A basic Law of the Universe is that for every Action, there is an equal and opposite Reaction. Indeed, this is the fundamental premise that undergirds Chess.

    Perhaps it is small wonder that few, if any, Women are Chess Grandmasters.

    Salaam
    Mu

    PS: Lupo, could you please explain, in brief, the distinguishing gait of the G-Spot Woman versus the Non-G-Spot Woman? Sounds very, very interesting…

    Like


  190. Hello says, “Apparently he is insisting upon her conversion to Orthodoxy. How anyone could “insist” she do anything is beyond me as I would probably run screaming if I met her, not to mention shielding my face.”

    Then he’d better pray to whatever god he’s serving that she never comes across my website.

    Like


  191. On the topic, I voted for the guy with the potty hoe for a wife.

    The guy who changed his surname could be with a woman who’s worth much more than this.

    The guy who married a woman who would, even piss drunk, shag another man in a public restroom, or at all, is a prime example of crippling betatude.

    Goodness knows how many decent women he passed up in his lifetime, who would have been faithful. A guy who doesn’t feel that he deserves better though, selects someone who will validate his low self image…perhaps his own low quality, but I don’t want to assume the latter.

    Every guy I know who actually married or shacked up with a hoe of the humiliating sort, has been emotionally defective. Every last one.

    It doesn’t matter much who the kids end up with. Neither of the parents have any damned sense.

    Like


  192. “Then he’d better pray to whatever god he’s serving that she never comes across my website.”

    I have a feeling he’ll keep her in check no matter what website she goes to, and if he doesn’t toe the line he’ll toss her out. Naomi’s had her ass kissed for years for being a beautiful model and she’s responded by beating her servants. I can barely believe I’m saying this, but this is a perfect example of what everyone on this blog talks about. Not all of life is like that, but I think Naomi fits this archetype.

    That is, along with his nice blond looks and “don’t mess with me” face is why this guy is HOT.

    Like


  193. — Chivalry only protected chaste women and whores were treated like whores.

    That is an excellent point!

    — I’d hit it, why not? Bang some blond married MILF?

    A man who shags a woman he knows is married forefits his right to remain alive.

    — Apparently he is insisting upon her conversion to Orthodoxy.

    I’ve observed that culture is transmitted by men, and women who date or marry guys of a different culture tend to be absorbed into his world, rather than vice-versa.

    Perhaps this is one of the reasons why people tend to be OK with men of their race/culture dating women of another, but viscerally oppose their women dating others. In the former case, the guy is pulling a new woman into his “tribe,” while in the latter, a woman is taken by another “tribe’s” men.

    In some ways, I’ve felt like I have more in common with black women married to white guys (I’m friends with two white guys who have black wives) than with white women who date/marry black guys.

    — Every time David Alexander posts, I want to pick up a knife and stab someone.

    I find David disarmingly likeable. But I’ve learned not to respond when he solicits sympathy or advice that he will not follow, as those are games of attention-hogging he likes to play.

    — Witness the refusal, if not out and out silence, on the part of women’s advocates to even call for accountability in this matter.

    One of the insights I’ve gleaned on this blog is that Feminism is not about women’s welfare.

    Instead, it’s about a small clique of elite women who like to promote themselves to power for power’s own sake, while waging a war on beta males of their own society for its own sake.

    Once I understood that, everything has fallen into place for me, including:

    1) standing by the sexual predator Bill Clinton while destroying many lesser men on spurious charges of sexual impropriety;

    2) indifference to foreign women’s or their own country’s lower class women’s suffering, except where politically useful. witness the Feminists’ indifference to immigrant rapes of Swedish women, or their venom toward Paula Jones

    Feminism is high school mean girls writ large.

    Like


  194. Hello, there’s alot more to the Jewish thing than I think you’re aware of.

    PA says, “I’ve observed that culture is transmitted by men, and women who date or marry guys of a different culture tend to be absorbed into his world, rather than vice-versa.”

    Not in Jewish/Israeli culture.

    The reason he wants her to convert is quite simply that non Jewish women are considered inherently inferior. I would go into greater detail, but I don’t want to be mislabelled as antisemitic when I’m an equal opportunity despiser of bullshite.

    Suffice to say, if he brings Naomi Campbell to Israel as a non Jew, she may be turned away at the border if she isn’t recognized as a celebrity, and may even be made an example of, as some African diplomats have been. It will be 28 months before the Israeli ministry of interior even recognizes them as legal cohabitants, and neither the Israeli government nor the orthodoxy will recognize them as marriage. On the record, the most she can be is his…well, his bitch, if she does not convert.

    He doesn’t want her to embrace the Jewish faith. He wants her to sell her soul to make it more convenient for him to get her in and out of Israel, and to not bear the social stigma of being married to a donkey.

    Beta to the bone.

    Like


  195. PA:

    A man who shags a woman he knows is married forefits his right to remain alive.

    Shouldn’t the harsher penalty be reserved for the wife? After all, it takes two to tango and it is the woman who has an oath of loyalty to the husband, not the other man.

    Like


  196. I was just responding to a guy who said “I’d hit a married MILF!” But yeah, I have no sympathy for the cheating wife either.

    I’m not about to say that one round in the back of the head at a soccer stadium is a great thing, but let’s just say that internal enforcement of honor is not high on the list of things I’m wary of with regards to the Eastern civilization.

    Like


  197. You THUG, you.

    Like


  198. PA –

    “1) standing by the sexual predator Bill Clinton while destroying many lesser men on spurious charges of sexual impropriety”

    How is Bill Clinton a “sexual predator” all of a sudden? He’s just a married alpha doing what married alphas do. That’s have affairs.

    To my knowledge, he’s never shown any interest in hooking up with underaged chicks.

    It’s funny how on a blog which celebrates or at least defends alpha manhood (even if most of us aren’t alphas we’d still like to be, or still want to practice some alpha traits through “game”), all of a sudden when we’re talking about a political figure we don’t like, but who obviously likes sex and who is obviously an alpha, we brand him as a predator.

    Like


  199. Joe, maybe I should have referred to Bill Clinton as alleged sexual predator instead.

    What I had in mind was his lewd encounter with Paula Jones and two credible-sounding allegations of sexual assault against Kathryn Willey and Juanita Broderick.

    Like


  200. And my original point is that feminists have wrecked men’s careers over a lot less than that.

    Like


  201. Chances are they just haven’t been with the right man. The number of guys out there who can last and who know how to go fast, slow, and hard without it impaling you are all too few.

    haha…. riiiiight

    bitches that don’t cum from dicks typically are the ones that don’t and won’t masturbate. there is a LOT to be said about women who don’t know their own bodies well enough to have a vaginal orgasm.

    blaming it on the man is such the default female defense mechanism.

    tsk tsk Hello… you should be ashamed of yourself

    Like


  202. “— I’d hit it, why not? Bang some blond married MILF?”

    The whole “MILF” phenomenon is something uniquely American, which has developed out of the fever-pitch hypercompetitiveness of the sexual market in the USA for young people.

    The vast majority of heterosexual males would much rather bang a young, nubile college girl than a middle-aged MILF.

    The MILF thing came up because more and more young men in the US are being edged out of the sexual market, or marginalized, by hyper-picky women who only stalk alphas and won’t hook up with a random beta unless the stars are aligned properly and their biorhythms and hormonal clocks are just right… So most men’s value in the sexual market continues to drop, as the average woman’s is artificially elevated.

    Because of this most American men have continually ratcheted down their standards year by year, until now we are celebrating “MILFs” — 44 year-old dried out women with crow’s feet and flabby stomachs, who may look decent from 100 feet when you’re drunk, or in a small grainy photograph.

    This also accounts for the disturbing numbers of 30-something American couples we can see all over the country where the woman outweighs the man by, say, 40-50 lbs. or more.

    In no other country I know do you see this kind of thing, or normal looking men salivating over fucking women who could be their mothers (save perhaps Canada, which actually started the whole “Cougar” trend — it was cooked up by Valerie Gibson, a dating columnist for the Toronto Globe & Mail — but Canada is pretty much a carbon copy of the US when it comes to dating and sex anyway)…

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  203. The MILF thing came up because more and more young men in the US are being edged out of the sexual market

    I agree with you in general on men’s preferences and the dyynamics of the U.S. dating market. But you need to make an allowance for the “Mrs. Robinson” thing. I don’t doubt that a lot of teenage guys find women in their late 20s-early 40s sexually fascinating.

    Heh. In my early teens I had a hot school teacher and a gorgeous adult female neighbor, both of whom drove me starkers mad with fascination on account of my perception that they are flirting/teasing me, including accidental full-view-of-goodies downlbouse peeks.

    Like


  204. “I don’t doubt that a lot of teenage guys find women in their late 20s-early 40s sexually fascinating.”

    Sure, as a high school freshman, I had crushes on several substitute teachers and even 1 or 2 real teachers.

    But when I think back on it now, these were girls of 24-26. I never had any crushes on the 40 year-olds — although I will acknowledge that there are some women in their 40s who can be hot.

    I am not bashing monogamy here as a lifestyle of choice.

    If a guy gets enough young poon in his teens, 20s and 30s, by the time he’s ready to get married, he will have worked out his pent-up desire, and if he finds a decent looking woman, he may choose to be 100% faithful and it’ll be all good.

    But what’s happening today in the US, especially in big cities like NYC and DC, is that the traditional patriarchal sexual pecking order that existed for in the West for thousands of years (with all sorts of niche religious and cultural exceptions), i.e., where males basically got to choose the females they hooked up with, has been turned on its head, and because of feminism and a whole lot of other things, it’s now young *females* who are in the driver’s seat, make all the choices, and leaving most males increasingly frustrated.

    This, in my mind, accounts 100% for the MILF and cougar phenomena.

    If you look very carefully, these phenomena are only happening on a noteworthy scale in the USA and Canada, and to a slightly lesser extent in the UK and Australia.

    In Italy, Silvio Berlusconi is still appointing 25 year-old models to his cabinet and (presumably) banging them with the aid of his penis pump.

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  205. I thought that MILF referred to attractive married mothers in their late 20s to mid-30s or so – and that the reason they were attractive to younger men was that they were better groomed than their juniors but still young enough to look good to men who weren’t in the market for a wife just yet. A 44-year-old married or divorced woman with children is surely a cougar, not an MILF – or have I misunderstood something here?

    Nicole and Hello: Culture is generally thought to be passed on by the mother, not the father, of children. That’s why we speak of someone’s “mother tongue”. That’s also why both Catholic and Protestant propagandists during the Reformation placed so much importance on female religious education and the literacy needed to transmit it. They understood that mothers had far more to do with shaping their children’s religious beliefs than fathers usually did.

    As for Israel demand that people convert to Judaism, surely the reason that this is so important in Israel is that Jews, too, understand this, and in fact understood it before anyone else? That’s why it’s a Jewish religious law that the children of a Jewish mother are automatically Jews, regardless of their father’s faith, while the children of a Jewish father and gentile mother are not. Israel wants to ensure that its citizens are born Jews, and no doubt that’s why it imposes these demands for conversion on non-Jewish women who wish to marry a Jewish citizen of Israel.

    Clio

    Like


  206. on December 3, 2008 at 10:26 am ironrailsironweights

    I’ve observed that culture is transmitted by men, and women who date or marry guys of a different culture tend to be absorbed into his world, rather than vice-versa.

    Dunno ’bout that … women, of whatever culture, tend to retain closer ties to their families after marriage than men do, that would seem to indicate that the men are more likely to be absorbed into the women’s culture.

    In some ways, I’ve felt like I have more in common with black women married to white guys (I’m friends with two white guys who have black wives) than with white women who date/marry black guys.

    White women who get involved with black men tend to be from the lower end of the socioeconomic totem pole. Perhaps that accounts for why you don’t have much in common with them.

    This [MILF factor] also accounts for the disturbing numbers of 30-something American couples we can see all over the country where the woman outweighs the man by, say, 40-50 lbs. or more.

    Or the women might’ve been normal sized at the time of marriage and porked up thereafter. Many women gain significant amounts of weight after having children. In any event, among couples in their 30’s and above I more frequently notice quite the opposite – slim, or at least normal-sized, women married to fat hog husbands who can’t see their d*cks without use of mirrors.

    Peter

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  207. Culture is generally thought to be passed on by the mother, not the father, of children.

    Yes, but she’s passing on her husband’s culture, which in most cases is also her own.

    It’s been my impression that in cross-cultural marriages the husbands culture is what the woman is absorbed into, not the otehr way around.

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  208. Yes, women will usually have stronger family ties with their extendeds, but the children will grow into their father’s culture, not the mother’s, if the two are different.

    This isn’t comething I’m saying with 100% certainty; just something that seems to be a pattern in my observations.

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  209. “I thought that MILF referred to attractive married mothers in their late 20s to mid-30s or so – and that the reason they were attractive to younger men was that they were better groomed than their juniors but still young enough to look good to men who weren’t in the market for a wife just yet. A 44-year-old married or divorced woman with children is surely a cougar, not an MILF – or have I misunderstood something here?”

    I think you are missing something, big time. You are missing the way the arbiters of cultural mores (many of them feminist PR and marketing mavens writing for magazines and ad agencies on Madison Ave. — in a word, “Samanthas”) manipulate public opinion by providing ready-made narratives to answer all our questions about their so-called lifestyle trends.

    Essentially the MILF phenomenon and the cougar phenomenon are the exact same thing, just two different ways of looking at it. They both empower the female sex and disempower the male sex. The way they do this is give more sexual opportunities to women who would have traditionally been thought of as over-the-hill, while encouraging younger males to pursue older females, creating a ready-made mass market for this.

    The shit you read about older women looking better because more are going to the gym, working out, getting Botox and other cosmetic surgery, etc., is just incidental. It doesn’t really change the fact that she’s still a 45 year old woman with a body that’s showing signs of sagging and aging.

    If such women can score nice, decent husbands and care for them in a traditional feminine and respectful manner, than they deserve to have monogamous husbands in their later years.

    Otherwise, the arbiters of cultural mores are fucking with the minds of American males by promulgating and perpetuating this *myth* that lots of younger men are naturally attracted to women a decade or two their senior.

    It just ain’t true.

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  210. on December 3, 2008 at 10:36 am ironrailsironweights

    Clio –

    MILF is a frequently misunderstood term. Even though it hasn’t been around for long – while of course the concept is nothing new, the term itself is less than a decade old – its meaning has changed. It originally was a relative term, in other words it had different meanings for different users. It meant a woman who was a generation older than the speaker, a woman who actually could be old enough to be the speaker’s mother. To a 20-year-old, for example, a MILF would have to be at least in her late 30’s.

    Today, the term has been watered down, and now is often used to describe any woman, however young, who has had a child. An 18-year-old male might refer to a 25-year-old woman as a MILF and no one except a few language snobs (like, you know, me) thinks there’s anything incorrect about that usage.

    Peter

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  211. ironrails said:

    “Today, the term has been watered down, and now is often used to describe any woman, however young, who has had a child.”

    Maybe, but I still see the term used *all the time* to refer to older women, in their 40s, say, who people are just *assuming* have children because of their age.

    “MILF” and “Cougar” are just 2 sides of the exact same coin. They essentially describe the exact same demographic of women, but “Cougar” emphasizes it from the older woman’s standpoint as sexual actor, while “MILF” describes it from the younger man’s viewpoint as sexual actor.

    Let’s be clear, it’s still the same shit being loaded into the crack pipe, no matter how you smoke it.

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  212. Peter, I take exception to your IR dating/marriage remarks. While its true that one can see IR read, Black Male/White Female pairings on the lower end of the spectrum, they can be found at the higher end as well. In fact, a major critique of most Black Women is that once a Black Man has achieved a certain amount of wealth, success and prestige, he is almost certain to either seekout or by sought out by, White Females.

    An apology is in order, but a correction of your statements will suffice.;)

    Salaam
    Mu

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  213. Mu’Min – you’re right… Clarence and Virginia Thomas come to mind at the high-end. But also, the reverse – David Bowie and Iman.

    Like


  214. on December 3, 2008 at 11:01 am ironrailsironweights

    Peter, I take exception to your IR dating/marriage remarks. While its true that one can see IR read, Black Male/White Female pairings on the lower end of the spectrum, they can be found at the higher end as well. In fact, a major critique of most Black Women is that once a Black Man has achieved a certain amount of wealth, success and prestige, he is almost certain to either seekout or by sought out by, White Females.

    That certainly occurs, but it’s long been apparent that most black male/white female pairings (which usually stop short of marriage) involve the lower rungs of the socioeconomic scale, for the women at least.

    Peter

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  215. Joe T,
    Excellent point. However, census figures in this area are clear: Black Male/White Female pairings eclipse the reverse by at least 3 to 1 presently and this trend has been thus for at least the past three decades. And, I might add, that even a moderatelt successful Black Man is found to be an acceptable mate choice not only to Black and White Women, but Latinas, too. I speak not from theory, but experience. The vast majority of the Women Mu has dealt with were NOT Hoochie Mamas.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  216. Peter,
    Barack Obama, regardless of what any of us may think of him, stands as Living Proof in direct contravention of your theory. Moreover I think the Census stats would bear me out, when I say that most of the Black Male/White Female marriages do not emanate from the lower rungs of US Society. I personally can recount quite a few such pairings where the Black Male in question had to be successful before such a pairing could get sanction from the Whiter Female’s parents and social circle. Again, it is true that there are poorer pairings/marriages here. No debate there. But you are looking at this issue through a keyhole, instead of through a door. Perhaps for personal reasons. It is understandable. Intense competition tends to do that.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  217. But I’ve learned not to respond when he solicits sympathy or advice that he will not follow, as those are games of attention-hogging he likes to play.

    Jesteś inteligentny człowiek.

    I’ve observed that culture is transmitted by men, and women who date or marry guys of a different culture tend to be absorbed into his world, rather than vice-versa.

    I’d argue that it depends on numerous factors including the connectivity of each parent to their own culture. I’ve seen mixed Jewish and Catholic marriages were the mother was Jewish and father was Catholic, but the children have adopted in some cases a Catholic identity and in others, a Catholic identity.

    The whole “MILF” phenomenon is something uniquely American, which has developed out of the fever-pitch hypercompetitiveness of the sexual market in the USA for young people.

    I’d argue that it’s grown considerably because a select number of women are single and have aged decently or have access to various cosmetic treatments. If you’re into a short-term relationship and you don’t want the mess of dealing with women of your own age group with their various issues, then banging MILFs is a sensible option, especially if the MILFs are better looking than the women that you’re dating near your own age.

    White women who get involved with black men tend to be from the lower end of the socioeconomic totem pole.

    That’s why David tends to be very discriminating about any girl who shows interest in him. I don’t want to be associated with trashy white girls since that’s embarrassing for me.

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  218. PA,
    One of the problems I have w/DA, is his premise: his position is that, once he has finished college and gotten a successful job, his prospects will or should improve; yet, his notions are wholly wrongheaded. Having a strong education and/or status/money to go along with it will avail you naught if you don’t have the other necesary components, of which Game can afford one, to go along with it. Indeed, Roissy has demonstrated thru his Reader’s Mailbag, just how Dave’s strategem is faulty.

    Every man here knows that what Dave is talking about in this regard is a bunch of bunk. I can accept if he just doesn’t want to chane anything about himself, that’s his right. But to frame his inaction on this is wrongheaded and a betrayal of his intel, which is formidable in my view.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  219. Jesteś inteligentny człowiek.

    Very good David, just don’t forget your Instrumental case:

    Jesteś inteligentnym człowiekiem.

    Like


  220. Joe T., older women – the ones over 40 – do look better now relative to the way they looked 35 years ago, at least if they stay slender and fit, which is a big “if” today, I admit. It’s not Botox that works the magic, though. Careful attention to diet, exercise, and skin care can do most of the work.

    Aside from that, I agree that there’s no way that it’s “natural” for young men to be attracted to women a generation older than themselves, or at least not for any reason other than sexual curiosity. But it seems unlikely that feminism and the media can make this happen, if indeed it’s happening at a rate any greater than before. The media may delude women into thinking that they can attract a much younger mate – it’s always easy to deceive people into believing something positive about themselves – but it’s hardly likely to delude young men into thinking that they are attracted to such women when in fact they are not.

    Random observation suggests to me that on the rare occasions when young men are attracted to much older women, it’s because the women have something to offer that their juniors don’t. I recall one young man of 22 who was intelligent, handsome, and in no way lacking in self-assertion, who disliked dating his female peers because they were so badly dressed, slutty in behavior, and foul-mouthed. He really seemed to prefer women 10-15 years older than himself, and pursued a friend of mine for a while before she started a serious relationship with someone else. She wasn’t attracted to younger men, you see…I suspect that as he gets older and the girls around him mature a little, he’ll find them more appealing.

    Clio

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  221. Mu – I can accept if he just doesn’t want to chane anything about himself, that’s his right. But to frame his inaction on this is wrongheaded and a betrayal of his intel, which is formidable in my view.

    It’s taken me a while to accept that Davis isn’t a put-on by someone very different that who he says he is. At this point, I have little doubt that he is real.

    I believe that he is still under a great deal of influence of his upper-class Haitian background, hence his very genteel-sounding attitudes.

    But he’ll learn. He’s got time on his side. Time, of course, does fly.

    Like


  222. Yes! Clio FINALLY filled in that name field instead of just signing her name! THANK you!

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  223. <blockquoteI believe that he is still under a great deal of influence of his upper-class Haitian background, hence his very genteel-sounding attitudes.

    As a fellow Haitian, I don’t know if you can blame DA’s attitudes on his Haitian background. Haiti is not a very pro-beta culture, even among the elites.

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  224. Clio FINALLY filled in that name field instead of just signing her name!

    It’s funny, when I see “Anonymous” on the recent comments bar on blogs, I’m inclined to ignore them, as they’re often trolls or hit-n-run commenters, or doofuses who are too lazy to sign their name.

    The exception is on this blog, where I usually like to see “Anonymous” appear, as I expect it to be Clio, and agree with her or not, her comments are usually — like Hope’s — a good read.

    Like


  225. Haiti is not a very pro-beta culture, even among the elites

    I wasn’t so much talking about the betaness as the slightly snobby and old-fashioned nature of many of David’s comments. More upper-class than Haiti.

    Like


  226. Clio says, “As for Israel demand that people convert to Judaism, surely the reason that this is so important in Israel is that Jews, too, understand this, and in fact understood it before anyone else?”

    Neither Israel nor the orthodoxy demands that anyone become Jewish. It is just understood that if you don’t, you’re considered a second class citizen.

    This by the way, also applies to children with Jewish fathers and non Jewish mothers even though they, as Jews, are *required* to serve in the army at age 18.

    As one such young man I know put it, “You just know that nobody but another Russian is going to have your back.”

    It isn’t really that important legally. Non Jews have basically the same rights on paper. It’s just that socially, if you’re not Arab, Druze, or Jewish, you don’t fit anywhere except among others of the same designation. Since most Europeans can pass after the army though, it’s kind of something that stays unspoken until the issue of marriage comes up.

    Then you again see who your real friends are, and who really loves you.

    Quite a few people actually go insane here from how they’re treated. It’s like silent racism. People shut you out, and you don’t quite understand why, and by the time you do, you’ve got an inferiority complex from other people’s inferiority complex.

    “That’s why it’s a Jewish religious law that the children of a Jewish mother are automatically Jews, regardless of their father’s faith, while the children of a Jewish father and gentile mother are not.”

    Actually, that’s kind of new. It didn’t come about because they actually believed that maternal influence was stronger. It happened because in some places, Jews were extremely persecuted and enslaved, and many were raped by non Jews.

    So they had this huge crop of technically non Jewish kids living among Jews. It was done because at the time, it would increase their number and the kids wouldn’t cause the social problems that a large group of disenfranchised people will in your midst.

    Now, there’s the same problem because of the matrilineal situation. Men are able to spread it around alot faster than women, and Jewish men are not supposed to do without sex, even if there are no suitable Jewish women around.

    Now there is a growing number of disenfranchised non Arab Israelis.

    …and some of them have become neo Nazis.

    “Israel wants to ensure that its citizens are born Jews, and no doubt that’s why it imposes these demands for conversion on non-Jewish women who wish to marry a Jewish citizen of Israel.”

    Well, here’s where it gets interesting. A convert is a second class Jew. There are many things they won’t be able to do because they weren’t born Jews.

    That’s about like telling someone who got saved that they and their descendents must sit at the back of the church for 10 generations because they’re n00bs.

    …and again, maybe not legal, but socially a Black woman here is dirt. I can be in a business suit carrying a laptop coming out of the IRS, and some asshole is going to make sure that I don’t forget that to him I’m just a Black whore on my way to the car.

    It’s not that bad in most areas, but the general rule here is that Black = trash. At least if she’s Jewish though, she’ll get free Hebrew lessons and be able to tell the 90% of Israeli men who are screwed up like that, “Lech tizdayen!”

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  227. Aside from that, I agree that there’s no way that it’s “natural” for young men to be attracted to women a generation older than themselves, or at least not for any reason other than sexual curiosity.

    Depends on the age of the boys. In junior high and high school it’s not uncommon for boys to lust heavily after their 20 something and early 30-something teachers. It’s not that liking someone a generation older is rare, it’s that liking someone much older than a woman’s peak attractiveness years are rare, regardless of the man’s age.

    Like


  228. I wasn’t so much talking about the betaness as the slightly snobby and old-fashioned nature of many of David’s comments. More upper-class than Haiti.

    Oh ok, agreed then. If you are talking snobbiness rather than betaness, upper class Haitians are INCREDIBLY snobby. Third world elites in general are much harsher, judgmental and exploitative toward their poor brethren than first world elites.

    Like


  229. Clio,
    You make a very powerful point about one of the serious upsides to Womanhood Today. There simply no doubt about it, a 40-plus year old woman can look light years better than her 1968 counterpart, in large part to advances in food, medical and healthcare/beautycare technology, etc. Having said that, I do think its important to keep things in perspective-its a bit foolish for a woman in such a situation to actually think she can compete with the average or even slightly above average man in this regard.
    Here I must respectfully disagree with my White brothers, for I am of the firm view that simply because a Woman is 35 or 40, she isn’t necessarily washed up. A lot depends on if she has taken care of herself, as you have rightly noted. And I’ll admit, Black Woman tend to age more gracefully than do White Women, all things being equal, of course.

    And I agree with your girlfriend’s smitten and much younger suitor, there is A LOT to be said for the utter lack of comportment among the younger ladies of today. Another reason why I was always more into the slightly older ladies myself.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  230. Beatrice:

    Random observation suggests to me that on the rare occasions when young men are attracted to much older women, it’s because the women have something to offer that their juniors don’t.

    Indeed, Clio. Indeed.

    😉 😉

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  231. Tupac,
    Absolutely a more seasoned woman has more sexual experience and fewer sexual hangups. No doubt about it. I’d also like to say, that I doubt few men here would balk at the chance to have a go at Kay Parker back in 1980, LOL.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  232. on December 3, 2008 at 1:57 pm ironrailsironweights

    To follow up on Clio’s latest comment, the cougar phenomenon mostly likely is not so much a matter of younger men being drawn to older women, as it is a matter of older women thinking younger men are drawn to them. In any event, I don’t know to what extent it’s a real phenomenon and to what extent it’s just a media/cultural creation with little basis in reality. Proving anything would be difficult because reliable statistics exist with respect to marriages, and to some extent with respect to cohabitation, but not with respect to more casual relationships. For those we’re forced to rely largely on anecdotes and impressions.

    Peter

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  233. Peter, I wonder if BDSM has anything to do with it.

    Dommes have always run older, and if you don’t know exactly what a couple is doing behind closed doors, it’s fairly easy to assume that it’s as simple as ow/ym and not D/s.

    Maybe Dommes gave vanilla women the impression that lots of younger men adore older women for more than “just sex”. There are a few guys who do prefer ltr’s with older women, but I wouldn’t call this normal…at least not until the guy himself is over 35.

    Like


  234. Peter:

    To follow up on Clio’s latest comment, the cougar phenomenon mostly likely is not so much a matter of younger men being drawn to older women, as it is a matter of older women thinking younger men are drawn to them.

    Well, it seems pretty obvious what a relatively good-looking woman over 35 who wants to play cougar can expect. She’ll easily find much younger OK-looking guys willing to have a one-night stand, fling, or maybe even a short relationship with her — after all, the world is full of handsome guys who aren’t getting much action due to a lack of game. But if she thinks that these guys might be interested in anything more serious than that, she’s out of touch with reality, and if she believes that any of these guys would actually prefer her to a comparably attractive younger girl, she’s even more deluded.

    In any event, I don’t know to what extent it’s a real phenomenon and to what extent it’s just a media/cultural creation with little basis in reality.

    In bars and clubs, one can frequently see women looking well over 30 who try to hook up with younger men, sometimes even hitting on them aggressively. I’m sure that many guys take advantage of such opportunities to break their dry spells. However, the idea that such hookups might develop into meaningful relationships is a media-inspired delusion.

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  235. WTF is wrong with you people with Jew on the brain? Doronin is obviously an Orthodox Christian. What, you think because he has money he must be the jew? Vladimir Doronin is a Russian Orthodox Christian. Personally I think he’s nuts for porking Naomi Campbell, but whatever. At least she’s female. I’m still processing the fact that James Bond is married to a barnyard animal.

    As for Kick a Bitch’s comment about women who jerk off having G-spots; you have it exactly backwards. I was always confoosled by this. The women who come like freight trains from my tiny Irish ding dong rarely touch themselves, and almost never own a vibrator. Stuart Brody, the researcher who did the study about the gaits of women who have don’t have vaginal anesthesia actually did statistics on this phenomenon as well. His conclusion was that clitoral oriented early sexual education has raised a generation of women who can’t have normal sex. They fixate on their clitoris. Mind blowing stuff; the fruitcake conservatives are right: early sex education is poison. Brody isn’t some secret christian loon; he’s a New York liberal who is really horrified at what’s happening to humanity.

    Mu’Min: download the paper. You don’t really need to though. Women who walk like women fuck like women. If you’re attracted to women who walk like feeble mannikin dwarfs: you better learn to lick your eyebrows.

    Being old rocks because I can look at women and determine their capacity for a normal relationship, though I wish someone had told me stuff like this when I was a young man.

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  236. Vladimir says, “…if she thinks that these guys might be interested in anything more serious than that, she’s out of touch with reality, and if she believes that any of these guys would actually prefer her to a comparably attractive younger girl, she’s even more deluded.”

    Human beings who are “off the grid” of the dating/mating scene, are not as easily interchangeable as sheeple. You’d do well to remember that when sticking your nose up at the alternatively oriented. Sticking your nose up doesn’t help your situation, when “the man’s” arse is hovering just above it.

    Though I don’t think it’s normal for a younger man to go for an older woman for more than sex, it does happen.

    Being young and attractive is easy. Being older and attractive takes some work. Being successful is an accomplishment. Power is an aphrodisiac.

    Though in a way, I do see your point. It’s comforting to convince people that they can do what exceptional people do, and have what they have, without actually being exceptional. That is rather funny.

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  237. Hmmmmm. I don’t know about the IRR pairing thing. I’m going to have to agree more with Peter and PA about economic status and cultural influence. My half asian friends (the ones raised in the states) almost exclusively identify as more “white” except for the ones raised in single parent (asian-run) households. Several black guys who post here have stated a preference for lighter skin tones, so wouldn’t that lead to more of an incentive for black men to date women of other races/ethnicities than for white men to do the same? Most black guys I’ve known have been less picky about white women/asian women/etc… that they date than white men that I’ve known that have dated black/latina women. Again, from the South, so some cultural influence may be in play here, but that’s what I’ve seen.
    -Grace.

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  238. *shakes finger at keith*

    @Hello-
    For some reason, I have a soft spot for Naomi.
    Vlad is a good match for Naomi. She has always be very vocal about desiring a very dominant Alpha personality sort of guy. I think that’s why she has dated a lot of Arab royalty. From what I read, Carla Bruni likes them the same way. I think Naomi’s behavior is the result of other things that have gone wrong in her life & earlier coke addiction. She admits and owns up to all of her bad behavior

    Isn’t the Christen chruch called Orthadox in Russia? I think the Greak Catholic chruch is called/named orthadox as well.

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  239. Joe t saiduntil now we are celebrating “MILFs” — 44 year-old dried out women with crow’s feet and flabby stomachs, who may look decent from 100 feet when you’re drunk, or in a small grainy photograph

    This also accounts for the disturbing numbers of 30-something American couples we can see all over the country where the woman outweighs the man by, say, 40-50 lbs. or more
    I agree Joe but I wonder why this is happening in our country. At times I feel like we are being had by the diet and food industries.
    But what’s happening today in the US, especially in big cities like NYC and DC, is that the traditional patriarchal sexual pecking order that existed for in the West for thousands of years (with all sorts of niche religious and cultural exceptions), i.e., where males basically got to choose the females they hooked up with
    Joe, I would think that women chose during earlier times as well because women give the final say so. Even in the romanticized 1950’s, most men didn’t get the 9&10s.
    Have any of you taken the time to think that maybe hormonal birth control affects how women behave in relation to men ?

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  240. In fact, a major critique of most Black Women is that once a Black Man has achieved a certain amount of wealth, success and prestige, he is almost certain to either seekout or by sought out by, White Females

    Mu what Peter was getting at is most WW who marry blk men are from the lower rung. I sure he is aware that many blk men who marry interracially vary in class status. For instance, I think we can count on one hand the number of 5th avenue socialites who would marry a black man. I can only think of one right now.

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  241. Mu’Min:

    Tupac,
    Absolutely a more seasoned woman has more sexual experience and fewer sexual hangups. No doubt about it.

    You got it backwards. I’m hawkin’ Clio because she is as pure as driven snow. I’m not terribly fond of “experienced” women who sportfuck. On the contrary — I love gingerly defusing the landmines that surround women like Clio. What could be better than picking the lock to her Pandora’s Box in order to unleash the Devil Inside? >:)

    I like to be the one doing the teaching.

    And like someone else said, girls today are coarse and base. Clio would be a welcome respite.

    Like


  242. Oh ok, agreed then. If you are talking snobbiness rather than betaness, upper class Haitians are INCREDIBLY snobby. Third world elites in general are much harsher, judgmental and exploitative toward their poor brethren than first world elites.
    agreed
    At least from my experience. I believe it’s part of the reason the third world is so screwed up.

    PeterProving anything would be difficult because reliable statistics exist with respect to marriages, and to some extent with respect to cohabitation, but not with respect to more casual relationships. For those we’re forced to rely largely on anecdotes and impressions
    Peter, if I’m not mistaken, most MILFS and Cougars are only looking for a causal relationship with younger guys. Most have been married or burned before so they only look to men for the good stuff. Marriage is one thing but to lay with a woman is something that most men find very easy unless she is hideous or smells bad.

    Lupo saidWTF is wrong with you people with Jew on the brain? Doronin is obviously an Orthodox Christian. What, you think because he has money he must be the jew? Vladimir Doronin is a Russian Orthodox Christian
    I see you beat me to it. I don’t think many Americans are aware that Orthodox refers to Christianity in some parts of the world.

    Grace, besides DA, what other BM poster has professed a preference for light skin?

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  243. Tupac

    You mentioned enjoying the attentions of such coarse women in the past with your friends. It’s the reason I am very afraid of men like you.

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  244. chic:

    You mentioned enjoying the attentions of such coarse women in the past with your friends.

    Variety is the spice of life.

    Different folks require different strokes. 😉

    It’s the reason I am very afraid of men like you.

    …or afraid of what might be hiding in shadows of your heart?

    Like


  245. Mu what Peter was getting at is most WW who marry blk men are from the lower rung. I sure he is aware that many blk men who marry interracially vary in class status. For instance, I think we can count on one hand the number of 5th avenue socialites who would marry a black man. I can only think of one right now.

    I think a big problem in discussions on interracial dating on this site is that they focus on race in a vacuum without looking at pedigree and class. First blacks make up 13% of the US population, so even if 100% of black males dated interracially with white women, you would still have a small percentage of white women who date interracially. Second, a larger chunk of black males are “proles” than in any other racial group. Since women like to date the same social status or higher, of course most of the white women who date black will be proles too. Because a large percentage of black men are proles. But make no mistake, when a white woman of middle class or upper class can find a black guy of similar pedigree, they are just as open to interracial dating. The 5th Ave types you mention most likely don’t date black men because they rarely come across black men of the proper class, education, status and pedigree in their social circles and not because of some aversion to dating black people.

    Like


  246. tupac or afraid of what might be hiding in shadows of your heart?

    No the disease in your crotch

    Like


  247. T, I think it largely has to do with social stigma for the 5th avenew bunch.

    Like


  248. chic:

    No the disease in your crotch

    That’s no disease — that’s a hunka hunka burnin’ love.

    Like


  249. T, I think it largely has to do with social stigma for the 5th avenew bunch.

    But the social stigma of what? His race or his class? Many people would say his race, but that’s because people have a tendency to conflate race and class. But I’m hard pressed to believe that if a 5th Avenue socialite landed an Ivy educated, eloquent high level executive with an elite pedigree that happened to be black like Richard Parsons, she would turn him down out of hand just based on his race. I’m sure there are many rich and powerful politically connected white women who never have dated a black man in their lives who would gladly marry Barack Obama, even when he was a senator. It’s not the blackness per se that keeps many of these high status women from marrying black, it’s what would most often come with a black man: a step down in class, status, pedigree, etc.

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  250. About inter-racial dating: to judge by what I’ve heard from black male friends here in Canada, it wasn’t difficult for them to date girls who were not trashy and were good students. Most of them ended up marrying white girls, too. They tended to be nice young men of good family originally from the Caribbean, and their great advantage over white teens and early-20s males was that they had nicer manners and they dressed better.

    The same didn’t apply to young men of Jamaican descent, who were/are more prone to getting into trouble, or so it seems, and so were less appealing to “nice girls”. I don’t know the reason for this but assume it has something to do with Jamaican society.

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  251. His race T.

    Besides the 5th avenew bunch,
    there are some enclaves in New England which you can never to marry into. Most of those people can trace their ancestors back to the Mayflower. They have no desire to marry anyone who does not share a similar background much less a blk person. Those people are the true American bluebloods.

    T, I was going to use Richard Parsons. I think even he would find it difficult to marry into the old money set. Most of those Park Avenue princesses are not self-made. They have inherited money and are expected to marry someone from their social set. It’s becoming more common to see white men from that group marry Asian women and some of the white women from that group have an issue with it for good reason.

    Besides, some people want their children to look something like them. People from that set often look highly upon a WASP(?) look of blonde hair and blue eyes. the likely hood of a child from you, DA or I having a child with that type of coloring is minute.

    Like


  252. David’s policy is to stay away from drunk women.

    these two things are intimately related, and not in the obvious way.

    David fears a drunk girl claiming rape and the related consequences of such an action.

    his position is that, once he has finished college and gotten a successful job

    Actually, I want the college degree and successful job in order to build up my confidence, and admittedly, to filter for “good” women who have college degrees for the purposes of a long-term relationship.

    Interestingly, Mu’Min’s exact words were uttered by the non-date girlfriend last night…

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  253. Clio,

    About the Jamaican thing, here’s an article you may find interesting by Malcolm Gladwell:

    http://www.gladwell.com/1996/1996_04_29_a_black.htm

    It talks about how Jamaicans are considered the “bad” blacks in Canada, but here in America they are considered the “good” blacks.

    Chic:

    T, I was going to use Richard Parsons. I think even he would find it difficult to marry into the old money set. Most of those Park Avenue princesses are not self-made. They have inherited money and are expected to marry someone from their social set.

    So if what you say is true, is Richard Parsons out because he’s black or because he’s not from old money? From what you describe, if true, even a white nouveau riche guy would have trouble penetrating. My point is that correlation is not always causation.

    Besides, some people want their children to look something like them. People from that set often look highly upon a WASP(?) look of blonde hair and blue eyes. the likely hood of a child from you, DA or I having a child with that type of coloring is minute.

    I think people care more about attraction and security. Even if your kid has a different race, he will still look like you if he has your genes.

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  254. DA,
    I agree 100% on your position wrt Women and Alcohol, and I counsel my Brothas on this all the time: it is a VERY dangerous combination, the two do NOT mix. Besides, in a huge way, I consider the use of alcohol and other intoxicants on Women in order to tail em to kinda be illegitimate; the Ultimate in Game is having Woman give up the Panties of her own and complete Free Will, in complete control of her faculties. Mu wouldn’t have it any other way.

    Going back to my earlier remarks, and your response: again, you miss the point. Women are fully self-supporting, so for any one of them to try to make a case that YOU need “thus and so” in the way of degrees and such, is a Red Herring and a Jedi Mindtrick. You’re too young to be thinking of anything longterm. Tag it and bag it.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  255. Clio,
    Interesting that you would use the words Jamaican and Canada in the same sentence wrt IR marriage; I happen to know a Jamaican gentleman who met and wed his Eastern European, very Blonde, very Blue-Eyed and very White Wife in Canada, nearly 50 years ago. And ALL of the wife’s girlfriends told her she would never make it with him.

    All of the girlfriends have been divorced at least once. One of them is on her third marriage.

    Hmm.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  256. So to lighten things up… how about Youngest Alpha of the year award… this kid has his instincts on point… well at least for a 9 year old… its impressive how well he has picked up on the real nature of social interaction HA

    “Pretty Girls are like cars that need alot of oil…”

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/12022008/news/nationalnews/i_wrote_the_book_of_love_141817.htm

    Like


  257. So if what you say is true, is Richard Parsons out because he’s black or because he’s not from old money? From what you describe, if true, even a white nouveau riche guy would have trouble penetrating. My point is that correlation is not always causation
    Both T, but his blackness may weight heavier against him.

    I think people care more about attraction and security. Even if your kid has a different race, he will still look like you if he has your genes
    Men attraction and women security then attraction. Even Dick Parsons can’t give an old money chic the type of security she can get from one of her own.

    Actually, Brandon Davis displayed the distaste that they old money(or somewhat old money) set have for the nevou(tp) rich with his comments about Lindsey Lohan in the fire crotch video.

    Like


  258. And ALL of the wife’s girlfriends told her she would never make it with him.

    All of the girlfriends have been divorced at least once. One of them is on her third marriage.

    Mu, marriage is funny. Sometimes the least likely couples make it and those that are perfect for each other don’t. I have a hunch that sicko Marry Kate Latorno & her husband will be together for a long time..

    Like


  259. Listen, all this handwringing about Black Men tailing White Women is a proxy for White Male Sexual Insecurity, OK? God, me and Ricky and even Dave A have heard virtually the same thing from the Sistahood, and there you can be sure to hear all kinds of convoluted theories, too.
    OJ Simpson was proof positive that if you’re able to make it to the top of the foodchain if you’re Black, you too can get a Barbie Wifey. Its been done many, many times. The US Military is RIFE with IR Marriage, probably has more of it than any other sector of American Society, and of the Black Officers in the ranks, quite a few have White or at least Non-Black Wives. And this has been the case for decades.

    What T/Ricky has said about there being more Black Proles is accurate and again as I said to Pete earlier, I don’t deny Black Men hooking up with White Women on the lower ends of the econ ladder. But again, Obama is living proof that it can and DOES happen on the higher ends too. More than we’d like to admit in fact.

    I thought this was a place where “Pretty Lies Perish”? So let’s cut the crap. A lot of White guys get really nervous when faced with the prospect of some Brotha snatching up their Honies. I done seen it a lot, and believe me, the SAs feel the exact same way. Like I said earlier, intense competition can do that.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  260. epiclolz,
    Thanks
    That little boy is such a cutie . I just hope his level of “game” does not progress to the Janka level.
    *shudders*

    *shakes head*
    whenever I think about Janka, I become very angry.
    But with classic plain-spoken advice – like “comb your hair and don’t wear sweats” – it’s no surprise his 46-page book was a hit with boys and girls of all ages

    HA, even a 9-year-old understands that looks do matter to women.

    Like


  261. Jamaican gentleman who met and wed his Eastern European, very Blonde, very Blue-Eyed and very White

    I guess that’s the end of that very Blonde, very Blue-Eyed and very White line.

    Like


  262. Mu, OJ’s wife was not a blue blood. She was from a middle or upper middle class. T and I are disscusing a very small portion of the richest two percent in this country.

    But again, Obama is living proof that it can and DOES happen on the higher ends too
    Please explain

    thought this was a place where “Pretty Lies Perish”? So let’s cut the crap. A lot of White guys get really nervous when faced with the prospect of some Brotha snatching up their Honies

    As Whiskey said, men always fight over pus*Y. I’ve known brothers who don’t date sisters but become angry when they see/hear of a sister who is dating someone non blk -most notably a white guy. ‘women are the same way. Many sisters would not give DA a chance but God forbid he dates a White woman. The same thing can be said of some White women when they see a nerdy looking white guy dating an Asian or black woman.

    Like


  263. You’re too young to be thinking of anything longterm.

    You’re never too young to think long term. From what I’ve seen from the three idiots cherished family members, those short-term relationships can easily turn into complicated long-term arrangements due to a condom or birth control failing.

    Women are fully self-supporting,

    Women may be self-supporting, but they want boyfriends/husbands that they don’t have to hide from their other friends. For a college educated female, a non-college educated boyfriend better have a kickass high paying job, be really good looking, or have the best frigging game in the world capable of slaying her friends. Besides, the college degree is great for winning over the approval of those pesky family members who may detest their daughter affiliating with a lowly “prole”.

    Plus, I need the degree and job to feel “equal” to her. I don’t need paranoid thoughts about her flirting and eventually banging smarter, better looking, or richer guys…

    Like


  264. chiclet:
    HA, even a 9-year-old understands that looks do matter to women.

    just not nearly as much as a woman’s looks matter to men.

    ps: grooming does not create good looks. it only improves (slightly) what is already there.

    pps: has is ever occurred to you that you are the exception to the rule in the overriding emphasis you place on a man’s looks for mating potential?
    naaah…. of course not. you’re a woman. you’re incapable of separating personal feelings from facts.

    Like


  265. Chic,
    Look, let’s not belabour this thing, OK? As T/Ricky said, Obama had an All Access Pass to Blue Blood Poon back when he was a Senator. And Tiger Woods could have and can right now, get access to Hampton Honies. There have always been Black Men like that. Frederick Douglass, anyone?

    As for myself, I couldn’t care less who any Sista, including my own, chooses to get with. God Bless Em. Has nothing to do with my life.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  266. DA,
    More excuses. Bullshit. If you go to college or do ANYTHING else, do it for you. Period. If you’re doing it for the express purpose of trying to score with the ladies in any shape, form or fashion, not only are you an A1 Tool, but you deserve the buttfucking you get. And I mean that.

    From my own personal experience: I couldn’t give a fat rat’s behind what anyone thought of me. All I cared about was being between the particular Honey of the moment’s thighs. Which happened a lot. Her college degree, or her family pedigree had little if anything to do with it. And if you have any kind of Game working, you could do the same thing.

    Believe me, if you’re tagging her right, her friends will like you, because of all the great reports she’s giving em. Stop making excuses and get off the fuckin pot.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  267. @Chicnoir

    Chic, why are you angry about Janka? He’s a hip, cynical New Yorker who talked to about 15,000 women in the past 15 years, got 3,000 phone numbers, and slept with about 173 women. The women were most likely hip, cynical New Yorkers–J estimates they had about 10 partners, minimum, and sociologists tell us that 10-50 is NORMAL for women in NYC, lifetime–as eager to “exploit” him as he, them. It’s true he wound up on Jezebel as grabby and self-centered. It’s true that he has serious boundary issues and is way too touchy, and might do better with less touching, and he has a horrible “conversion rate”–2% phone to bed is considered optimal, and J’s is supposedly ONE-QUARTER of that, but very, very few men can get into the 100+ partners and up club, and it is a monument to his persistence, handling of logistics, (and good looks) if not to his game.

    He’s no angel. But NYC women, AFAIK, don’t want angels.

    Like


  268. Roissy you missed my earlier comment. I acknowledge that men are more looks driven. At the same time, men should not fool themselves into thinking that their looks don’t matter to women because they do.

    ps: grooming does not create good looks. it only improves (slightly) what is already there
    Grooming can take some men up or down three percentage points. You may have heard women make comments about a guy being cute with accessories.

    A good haircut can make an okay guy handsome or unattractive. Think back to how women reacted when Matt Louer(tp) from the Today show cut his hair into a chicken pic style. Matt reverted back to his original hair cut but it doesn’t matter much because he looks old now. His body is very nice thought. A forty year old man with a flat stomach.

    *shudders*

    pps: has is ever occurred to you that you are the exception to the rule in the overriding emphasis you place on a man’s looks for mating potential?
    naaah…. of course not. you’re a woman. you’re incapable of separating personal feelings from facts

    Actually, most women value male beauty just too different degrees. I admit that I am on the extreme end. For some women, a man’s wealth is most important. The guy could look like a wildebeest, as long as he is rich. Some women don’t like very good looking men because of the completion that they bring.

    BTW, maybe you should do one of those makeovers as a 300 man with bad skin to see how women view you when you are not so good looking. Your game may not be of much use to the 7s+ crowd.

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  269. Eurosabra
    @Chicnoir

    Chic, why are you angry about Janka?

    You are aware that I think that Janka is dreamy. At the same time, I find his douche like qualities a complete turnoff. Why is someone who looks so perfect from the outside so rotten on the inside? It’s like when men see a ten but find out she was passed around by all the guys in high school and has 4 children out of wedlock.

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  270. Eurosaba saidIt’s true he wound up on Jezebel as grabby and self-centered

    I think one someone from that site(commenter?) mentioned that she was afraid he was going to raPe her because of his overly aggresive tactics.

    and slept with about 173 women
    Yikes
    *dead faint*
    BTW, maybe you should do one of those makeovers as a 300 man with bad skin to see how women view you when you are not so good looking. Your game may not be of much use to the 7s+ crowd.
    That’s too much hoeing for me. I can’t be with a man knowing he has slept with so many women. I would hate to walk down the street with him and have other women laughing at me because they slept with my man.

    There is no way he isn’t carrying some type of STD after being with that many women. I bet he doesn’t use a rain coat with every partner. I can only pray that he doesn’t contract the big one. That would be a waste and very sad.

    Eurosaba, is Janka Indian or part Indian (not NA)?

    Like


  271. He’s no angel. But NYC women, AFAIK, don’t want angels.

    Hey
    *pouts*
    I’m from NYC.

    very few men can get into the 100+ partners and up club, and it is a monument to his persistence, handling of logistics, (and good looks) if not to his game

    So at the end of the day, this all most men want. To sleep around with many different women. A wife& children is for the birds huh???

    Like


  272. “a Jamaican gentleman who met and wed his Eastern European, very Blonde, very Blue-Eyed and very White Wife”

    Kiddies must be stunning. Of the interracial pairrings I’ve seen in my late 30’s demo (black-white, south indian-white, asian-white) the babies tend to be off-the-chart cuties.

    Like


  273. @Chicnoir

    He’s of Czech heritage. His father is very short and fair-haired, so I assume that the tall, dark looks came from his mother’s side.

    Let me explain something to you: in my life, to date, 20 women “liked” me. Of those, 2 had the moxie to do something about it. For the rest, I’ve been an extrovert, but all of my trying without Game in high school and college netted me maybe 10 serious phone numbers. Basically, the only reason I was able to have 5 partners in college and graduate school was by learning Game, taking women every step of the way to sex. The average woman has become very, very picky indeed, and the average man needs something to avoid being shut out of the sexual marketplace entirely.

    Like


  274. I don’t know about the White Male Sexual Jealousy angle. I would say that it happens with men who are in more strident competition levels with fewer resources to compete with. And perhaps when the woman is viewed as “high value” enough. But most men I’ve known growing up with/raised by there is an awareness of what “white man” means in the lay of the land of sexual conquest and ease of availability. By that I mean that you don’t have to try that hard to get a woman of any ethnicity anywhere in the world. It may not get mentioned out loud by other men, but I’m not a man so… . I have asian friends who wouldn’t/haven’t thought twice about mentioning the white men that they’ve dated, but have kept black relationships from families. It was viewed as more shameful, and monetary status didn’t “change the game” so to speak. Same with higher status latina women.

    These same women preferred white men at times b/c of the status that was involved. Status with family and friends for “getting” one. It is pretty much the same situation as being an American or European in a third world country. Blackness (in America) doesn’t carry that same status. I’m sorry it just doesn’t. Unless you find yourself in lucky circumstances, most people marry someone from a similar background and upbringing. For the most part, trailer park brings about trailer park, 5th Avenue brings about Madison Avenue.

    Again, from what I’ve seen, the black men who have dated friends of mine were either an experiment in youthful defiance, or that particular man was not what the majority views of the “average” black man (he was often better than the same level of ‘white guy’ they can/could get). Blackness does count more than a lot of people would want to believe in terms of the sexual mating game that is often mentioned on this site. If you’ve got enough going on (or someone wants you enough) to it is something that can be compensated for.

    Chic: (I think it was Mu, maybe T) who has mentioned a preference for lighter skin.
    -Grace.

    Like


  275. If you go to college or do ANYTHING else, do it for you.

    No shit, dude. I need the career job to pay for a car for my roadgeeking, photography equipment, and railfanning. The side bonus is that it unlocks women for long-term relationships.

    Like


  276. on December 3, 2008 at 9:41 pm Marvelous Bastard

    FWIW, reporting from the South, the black man with homely white woman is extremely common. Much more common than the white man with homely black woman combination.

    It may be because the black men, mostly poor black men, in my experience, think they are ‘pimpin’ when dating a white woman, however unattractive.

    Or, the black men are more ‘alpha’ than the white men of the same socio-economic status. There is a lot of lower class white trash.

    Or it could be that there are a lot fewer black women into white men than white women who are into black men. I don’t know how prevalent the attitude is, but as many have suggested, black women seem to take race more seriously as a consideration before dating a man than white women do. Despite the stereotype that whites are the racists.

    Go to any college campus and follow the basketball players around. At most college campuses they will be surrounded by swarms of cute, white co-eds. I think the main reason there aren’t more middle and upper class white women into black men is due to the lack of available middle and upper class black men (relatively speaking).

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  277. Lupo:

    Vladimir Doronin is a Russian Orthodox Christian.

    Apparently, the guy’s name is VLADISLAV Doronin (Владислав Доронин), not Vladimir. At least that’s how Russian media refer to him. I never had much respect for most journalists, but have they actually become so sloppy?

    In any case, considering what it takes to become (and remain) an oligarch in Russia, I kinda doubt that he’s a devoted Christian of any sort.

    Like


  278. Re Naomi and Vladimir,
    Yes, Orthodoxy in this context refers to Russian Orthodox Christianity. And Naomi is an original who’s lasted for a long time. Good luck to them!

    Like


  279. “In any case, considering what it takes to become (and remain) an oligarch in Russia, I kinda doubt that he’s a devoted Christian of any sort.”

    Major cosign. You think he’s insisting on the conversion to please his family?

    Like


  280. Eurosaba said The average woman has become very, very picky indeed, and the average man needs something to avoid being shut out of the sexual marketplace entirely

    I think women have always been very picky. I think the fear of becoming a spinster because of the associated stigma along with no birth control made women settle & settle fast.

    Eurosaba, are you looking for a wife or do you want to “hookup” with many different women? Could you enjoy the type of intellectual date that many Dutch people have knowing that seX is most likely out of the equation (according to T)?

    It’s true that he has serious boundary issues and is way too touchy, and might do better with less touching
    I’m glad you can see this^^^.

    He’s of Czech heritage. His father is very short and fair-haired, so I assume that the tall, dark looks came from his mother’s side
    OK
    Does his facial features resemble his father’s?
    I think the dreamed about him that night I saw him on the Tyra show.
    No joke
    :SMH:

    Like


  281. @hello- I love the original supermodels. Of the new crop, only Channel Iman, Coco Rocha, Sasha Sarapova, and Seeilee Lopez have the personality and some of the draw of the original supermodels.

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  282. T., I read the piece by Gladwell on Jamaicans as “good black people” and “bad black people”. Don’t know what to say. I see a tacit reproach in your comment and I am sorry if mine was offensive. But. Newspapers here suggest that when gun-fights break out in Toronto, the perps are more likely to be from Jamaica than any of the other Carib. islands, or Africa. Race-based crime statistics are hard to come by here, but there does seem to be a consensus that Jamaican crime is a real problem. (Not that this should lead to a blanket condemnation of Jamaicans, of course.) Here’s a clip from a piece written for the Globe and Mail, by the well-known Rev. Eugene Rivers from Boston, Dec. 2, 2005:

    Between 1996 and 2002, 10 per cent of all violent crimes committedin Toronto were linked to young men of Jamaican origin. This is high,considering that Jamaicans make up only 3.5 per cent of the city’s population.

    The Jamaican problem in Canada is not imaginary. Having googled Jamaican crime in Toronto just now, I found one suggested explanation for it: Jamaica lies in the middle of the route between drug-producing countries to the south and drug-consuming countries to the north. Perhaps the explanation is as simple as that. No one can really know the answer, of course.

    Meanwhile, Gladwell’s piece was well done, but a bit disingenuous, I thought, because although it may well be accurate as far as it goes, he fails to discuss any actual reasons why some Canadians have come to regard Jamaicans with suspicion. In trying to make his point that Jamaicans here are being scapegoated as the “bad” blacks because there is no other group with which to compare them, he also fails to acknowledge that there was a small but long-established black population in Ontario before Caribbean immigrants began to arrive here in large numbers in the 1970s.

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  283. “Again, from what I’ve seen, the black men who have dated friends of mine were either an experiment in youthful defiance, or that particular man was not what the majority views of the “average” black man (he was often better than the same level of ‘white guy’ they can/could get). Blackness does count more than a lot of people would want to believe in terms of the sexual mating game that is often mentioned on this site. If you’ve got enough going on (or someone wants you enough) to it is something that can be compensated for.”

    This is my observation. And, the images of black men in the media (and frequently, it must be said, in real life) can give women pause e.g. baby mama drama, infidelity, domestic violence. None of this matters in experimenting but long term these factors are dealbreakers. Now there are plenty of white men who do these things and I don’t mean to impugn anyone. Hell, the black guys who post here seem in general less douchey than the white ones. And I’ve known good black men, mostly of Carribean origins. But if pretty lies do perish here then it had to be said.

    Incidentally I think this is why one frequently sees trashy white women with (low class) black guys. The white men available to such women tend to have the same illegitimacy, beating and cheating issues so why discriminate. So I do believe that white women find black men attractive as marriage/LTR prospects if they are as worthy as their suitors of other races.

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  284. and the one black chick is pretty cool too, though not more so than other femmes de Roisy

    Like


  285. I see a tacit reproach in your comment and I am sorry if mine was offensive.

    Oh no, not at all! I wasn’t reproaching you, tacitly or otherwise! It’s just that here in America, Jamaicans are considered the “good blacks.” And in Canada, they are considered the “bad blacks.” And from observing their behavior in both places, both stereotypes have truth to them. I just thought you might find it interesting that the same blacks that are considered the “bad ones” in Canada for some reason are considered the “good ones” here in the US. I don’t know if it’s because Canada attracts a certain type of Jamaican immigrant and America attracts another.

    Like


  286. Chic: (I think it was Mu, maybe T) who has mentioned a preference for lighter skin.

    That may have been Mu. I have no skin tone preference. If I think a girl is hot, I don’t care if she’s pale as porcelain or dark as patent leather.

    Like


  287. Hi Grace,
    Oh, you have nothing to be coy about; you ain’t sayin’ nuttin’ but a word to me.

    I know exactly what you’re talking about. Black men have to be exceptional in order to tag the higher echelon Babes. We all know that. And, actually, I like it.

    Let’s face it-to be successful as a Black Man in a still very much White World, is no small feat. True, there is much handwringing about Affirmative Action and to be sure, I am DEAD SET AGAINST IT, but still, getting to the top of the heap as a Darkface is no joke.

    But I’m a Competitor through and through. I love to fight. I live to fight. I was born to fight.

    Affirmative Action takes the Victory away from me, cheapens, it, defiles it. I want to be able to beat my opponent in a fair and square fashion, so that there can be no doubt about it. So I’m the first in line to want to see it gone.

    All Women love a Winner. This is as true no matter where you go on the Planet. And I like to Win.

    Of the Non-White Women I’ve been with, when I asked them what made them want to hook up with me, they’d tell me things like “well, you’re not like all the rest” kind of stuff. When I pressed them a bit further, it was because of the things I just mentioned above. It makes sense, when you think about it.

    That Jamaican fellow I mentioned who met his wife of nearly 50 years up in Canada? He was the only Black man in his department as a chemical engineer for a multinational pharm company, overseeing several dozen beakers under him. For about three decades. I took some of my inspiration from his example.

    You say that you’re not sure about White Male Sexual Insecurity. You take it from me, I do know. It is there. It is real. As real as the Anger of the Sistahood, and you know something? I feel for them both. Because they do have some legit points of contention.

    Sistas do because a lot of Brothas just won’t Man-Up and simply say, look, I’m sexually attracted to White Women, OK? A lot of Brothas don’t want to brave the onslaught, but that’s the price you gottan pay when you want to opt out of the Race. I can dig it.

    White Guys know of the Woodhandling Skills many Brothas have-and of the curiousity many White Women have. Think about it. Few White Women go back to White guys after they been with Brothas. And there are other things, too. Some of which you mentioned. Women love a direct, deliberate Man. Most Brothas are this. Far too many of our White Brothers, are not.

    Oh, and on the Yellow Sisters: Mu has seen quite a few Brothas score em. One such Brotha is married to a Japanese woman, another to a Cambodian, and Mu himself has dated a half-Filipina. Hot to Death. My God. Her daddy was Black, by the way.

    Can’t speak for T, but yea, I do tend to prefer lighter skinned women as a rule. But I do make exceptions if the Sista is really a looker. Someone Jennifer Hudson’s and Angie Stone’s complexion can definitely get it provided they fine enough.

    But yea, in the main, if you’re a Brotha and you’ve made something of yourself; if you’re relatively good looking, carry yourself well, and so on, you can pretty much write your own ticket in he Dating World. I’m sure T would agree.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  288. I have asian friends who wouldn’t/haven’t thought twice about mentioning the white men that they’ve dated, but have kept black relationships from families
    Read and herd a lot of this from the mouth’s of Asians. For Latina’s it depends on their country of origin. Puerto Ricans & Dominicans are usually more open to dating blks.

    These same women preferred white men at times b/c of the status that was involved. Status with family and friends for “getting” one. It is pretty much the same situation as being an American or European in a third world country. Blackness (in America) doesn’t carry that same status
    I’m glad put in America in parenthesis because things do change a bit once you leave American soil. With a lot of POC, whiteness is seen as a symbol of prestige. Of all groups in America, African-American women are most resistant to that way of thinking. It’s part of the reason why in bf/wm relationships, the two are closely matched in looks(1-10 scale).

    Blackness does count more than a lot of people would want to believe in terms of the sexual mating game that is often mentioned on this site.
    Cosign, this is why I mention that men must know tricks. Cougars are good for something.
    Nothing can make a woman break up with a man she likes faster than a man who is clueless in the sack. Almost every female blogger has a story about some guy who they liked so much until they did the deed. That like turned into disgust and revulsion after the man in question bombed out.
    Unless you find yourself in lucky circumstances, most people marry someone from a similar background and upbringing. For the most part, trailer park brings about trailer park, 5th Avenue brings about Madison Avenue
    I’ve mentioned this a number of times, and it’s very true.

    Again, from what I’ve seen, the black men who have dated friends of mine were either an experiment in youthful defiance, or that particular man was not what the majority views of the “average” black man (he was often better than the same level of ‘white guy’ they can/could get)
    With middle class whites this is usually how goes. I don’t think you will find many whites from middle class backgrounds who date IR, marry the type of blk chic/male you see on Jerry Springer or Maury( paternity test).

    The old money Park Avenue and mayflower set are a very different bred. Genevieve Jones has managed to finagle her way into the former group. The real question is can she marry into that group. She is rumored to have been the mistress of a few men.
    There are a few black women(biracial) who were born into that Park Ave set but Jones is not one of them.

    Experiment in youthful defiance – are usually those who are searching for their very own Mandingo or Jake Napier experience. To bad they are hard to come by(no pun).

    Like


  289. “Few White Women go back to White guys after they been with Brothas”

    Some don’t but I really think that’s a myth. I’ve known white chicks who go through a “black phase” in college and date/marry white men when they’re older. And yes, the white male jealousy/insecurity thing is real, but that’s true in interracial dating of all races.

    Like


  290. FWIW, reporting from the South, the black man with homely white woman is extremely common. Much more common than the white man with homely black woman combination.
    Cosign and I think it’s like that everywhere.
    It may be because the black men, mostly poor black men, in my experience, think they are ‘pimpin’ when dating a white woman, however unattractive.
    1.It has to do more with prestige that whiteness carries to some blk men.
    2. Some black men have mom issues. I really think some blk men are angry with their mothers because their fathers abandoned them.
    3. myths about white people-The belief that white people have it easier. When you are white, all your problems go away. Very few whites are poor or live paycheck to paycheck.
    4. The belief that white women are easy going, sexually open.
    5.Cultural, for black men who grew up in areas where there are few blk people to identify with

    Or it could be that there are a lot fewer black women into white men than white women who are into black men. I don’t know how prevalent the attitude is, but as many have suggested, black women seem to take race more seriously as a consideration before dating a man than white women do. Despite the stereotype that whites are the racists.
    There is truth here.

    Like


  291. Chic,

    I would venture that his facial features most resemble his mother’s.

    I’ve had so many “non-date” dates and “non-sexual” dates that I resemble DA. I’d say I’m less sexual than DA in day-to-day life, and I never touch porn, but I get with women who resemble his “non-date girlfriend” every couple of months. In the 4-6 range. Pale Southern Mediterranean (some Italians, Greeks, & Jews) or straight-up “everything West of Lvov” Czech/Slovak/Magyar/Polish seem to be my types. Either very thin or fat, few in-betweens. No Russians, either, but “subject peoples of the Empire.” Even (may PA forgive me) a Kaszubian and a Sorb. You have NO IDEA what a mind-flip it is to date a Kaszubian woman from Gdansk as a male American Jew. I do most of my sorting according to which women pick ME, because my Game is still pretty haphazard and inchoate. Mainly, I do my work and I sulk about why things aren’t easier.

    Like


  292. “Or it could be that there are a lot fewer black women into white men than white women who are into black men. I don’t know how prevalent the attitude is, but as many have suggested, black women seem to take race more seriously as a consideration before dating a man than white women do. Despite the stereotype that whites are the racists”

    This study shows that women of all races showed a strong preference for their own race in a dating partner, but that men didn’t care. This has been my observation; women are picky, but men take what they can get. Interestingly Asian women didn’t discriminate against white men as black and Hispanic women did, and this is why the wm/af combo is so common.

    http://www.slate.com/id/2177637/nav/tap3/

    Like


  293. Chic,
    Checkout Wolfe’s I Am Charlotte Simmons for more on the whole Black B-Baller/White Groupie thing.

    Also, I think the reasons you stated as to why some Black Men get with White Women are indeed valid. Although I’ll say, that a good number of Brothas feel some kind of way about their Moms because they may feel that she pushed Dad out the door, etc.

    And if Hello’s reading along, with all due respect, I happen to know quite a few White Women, none of whom have gone back “home” after having been with Black Men. Same deal with Latinas. They’ll get a new Black guy, but not go “back” so to speak. Just talked to one via email recently in fact outta Houston. She’s White and Blonde as the day is long and can’t get enough of Brothas. A cute Pisces, I might add.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  294. “That may have been Mu. I have no skin tone preference. If I think a girl is hot, I don’t care if she’s pale as porcelain or dark as patent leather.”

    Interesting, most of the black guys I’ve known either explicitly stated a preference for light skinned women or went nuts for them. Some guys don’t seem to like women who are darker than they but will accept a medium complected girls, for example, if they are dark-skinned. What’s the most important aspect of a woman’s looks to you?

    Like


  295. Mu’Min,
    *shrug* No disrespect taken. Any cliche isn’t going to be 100% correct for every individual. I wonder if anyone has done a study of this. Probably not, as it is a rather explosive topic.

    Like


  296. LOL
    thanks
    Hello there are three of us here. Nicole is also blk and there is an anon who is blk as well.

    Hell, the black guys who post here seem in general less douchey than the white ones. And I’ve known good black men, mostly of Carribean origins. But if pretty lies do perish here then it had to be said
    I will say that from my experience, white men(as a group) are much harder on women when it comes to looks. Some of the biting comments I’ve heard from white men (here and elsewhere)when it comes to a woman’s appearance makes me understand why so many white women struggle with body image issues

    Like


  297. Hello,
    Most men anywhere tend to prefer fairer skinned ladies. Nothing new there. Very few guys like women darker than them, and vice versa.

    As for the whole “Black stereotype” I’ve kinda thought of it in the way Italians were and to an extent still seen in local society. I don’t think you or Chic or any other gal isn’t gonna date an Italian guy for fear that his peeps are part of some crime family, LOL. Of course that sort of thing exists. But somehow y’all manage to make the distinction. Y’all can do the same thing wrt us Brothas.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  298. @ Hello. Yeah, the baby-mama drama was actually a deal-breaker for two friends. It wasn’t important at the start, but for one after it was found out that he had a child (from someone else), and that the guy actually started something up with her before his child was 2 months old, I think her first thought was, “Oh sh*t” and her second thought was “This is NOT what Save the Last Dance was like”, it got not so awesome REALLY fast.

    Although, I’ve heard the princess treatment gets higher if you date minority men. Less competition, more reward, higher platform to be lifted on. Not my words, but I’ve heard enough from a variety of sources to realize that this is true. Also, from my own personal questions.

    Race in the South is a bit more open than in the Mid-Atlantic. I’ve had more than a few black men who’ve tried to pick me up in DC get clammish when I’ve asked when was the last black girl that they’ve dated. I consider that an indicator of family values/self-confidence/wealth. I didn’t know middle/upper class black people who only dated white people in the South. I certainly didn’t know white middle/upper class people who only dated black people. Too many eyes have darted around, for me to take anyone seriously on offers. That and the grabby men in Adams Morgan. I’m not going to paint them as the representative of black men around town, but it doesn’t exactly make one feel comfortable.

    @chic: Yeah, the average woman has become more picky, mostly because she can get a wage to live on without a man. Since eating, renting an apartment/buying a home, basic provisions, and luxuries such as travel, etc… have become more available to the average everyday woman who can get a job, women have been able for the first time, to be picky.

    I.E. you can survive, and at an okay living standard, all on your own (relatively, I expect to hear the rants on govt. and taxes in 5-4-3-2-1). Do you WANT to do this all on your own, is where the pickiness comes in. At some point, a woman is looking for a man to provide something more, whether that be monetary or emotional, or both. That has always been the case, except that this time, the floor of base acceptance is a bit higher. When not enough men meet that threshold, but the illusion of beauty (the power that young women obtain from their looks) obscures that, you get the crazy of today.

    The landscape for marriage is ugly in some parts of the country due to this change, (see DC), but the competition, the fierciest competition for men to marry is for men from good families who actually carry male responsiblity responsibly. They are in LOW supply. Hence, the beginnings of embracement of minority men who look like they are on a successful path (I’m talking to you Mu) due to relaxed social standards. This is why when I’ve seen LTR with black men with women above a certain class, he was usually some sort of a package that is now harder to find. Or a fling that became a “dickmatized” life lesson.

    Something commonly left out of almost all discussions on this site (and I don’t expect it to change, so spare me the crazy) is that life before the feminism movement was NOT so good for most women below a certain income bracket or class level (although that is still true). You picked who you thought wouldn’t beat you, could keep a roof over your head, and wouldn’t spend all the money on gambling and whores. Some results of feminism are part of why American men are seen as such catches amongst women of foreign cultures (also left out of discussion on this blog, but I digress). Chic, take that into account in the “less picky” portion in re: of characteristics of foreign women when reading this blog.
    -Grace.

    Like


  299. Ah yes, I remember posting a link to this a while back.
    Football game dude is my choice. I think “beta” may be too nice a label.

    Like


  300. *blushing*

    Sorry, chicas. Chic noir’s name and photo make her blackness hard to forget.

    “I will say that from my experience, white men(as a group) are much harder on women when it comes to looks. Some of the biting comments I’ve heard from white men (here and elsewhere)when it comes to a woman’s appearance makes me understand why so many white women struggle with body image issues”

    I would say that white American men tend to be very fixated on the Playboy bunny/Hooters girl look and are less open then black, Hispanic, and European men are to other types of beauty. One nice thing about European movies is that many of the actresses still have their original noses 🙂

    I’ve known some white men that like black women over the years. None of them were successful, except one dude with a biracial girl, and were rejected quite contemptuously by the black girls they approached. But these guys were much more open to different aesthetics and styles and didn’t like the bland, Barbie look. And yes, they all loved dreds and natural hair. Just like Simon Baker *fanning face*.

    Like


  301. hello:

    “In any case, considering what it takes to become (and remain) an oligarch in Russia, I kinda doubt that he’s a devoted Christian of any sort.”

    Major cosign. You think he’s insisting on the conversion to please his family?

    Out of curiosity, I googled about this Doronin character, and he seems to be very shady, with almost zero media presence except for the stories about his present relationship. I couldn’t find any biographical information about him even in Russian media, not even a sterilized official story. No wonder that journalists can’t even get his name right. (Even some Russian newspapers wrongly reported his name as “Vladimir”; maybe that’s how the confusion in the Western media started.)

    As for the conversion, I’d hazard the following guess. Chaotic and lawless Eastern European countries are typically characterized by high levels of nationalism, and religious identification is one of the principal ways in which nationalism is popularly expressed. Now, people who rise to the top in these corrupted and brutal systems often get the desire to create a respectable public image, even though in reality they are just extremely smart, ruthless, and lucky nihilistic mafiosos. Ideally, they would want the public to venerate them as Western-style celebrities and at the same time as great patriots, and they may also covet the classy image of Western jet-setters.

    With this relationship, Doronin probably sees a chance to get all of this. He’s bought himself a place in some major global celebrity events and used these opportunities to break into he spotlight in the most positive way possible by romancing a major celebrity and sex-symbol. At the same time, he’s announcing at home that he is such a great and uncompromising Russian patriot that in order to win his heart, even Naomi Campbell will have to convert to Russian Orthodoxy!

    The only problem I see with this plan is that it might turn out that many Russians are still too racist to accept this as a valid nationalist credential (when googling Doronin’s name, I saw some slurs aimed at NC on Russian forums, and believe me, it’s not pretty). But then, I suppose he can also play the card of posing as a new sort of patriotic, and yet modern, enlightened, and cosmopolitan Russian magnate.

    (Also, I can’t escape the impression that surrounded by Western celebrities and rich people, Doronin not only looks like, but actually is a true wolf among sheep. I would guess that he probably enjoys it a lot.)

    Like


  302. on December 3, 2008 at 11:21 pm ironrailsironweights

    It’s just that here in America, Jamaicans are considered the “good blacks.” And in Canada, they are considered the “bad blacks.”

    Britain also has a lot of Jamaicans, and while their community struggles to some extent with crime and other issues they are considered MUCH better than the Pakistanis.

    Peter

    Like


  303. “That and the grabby men in Adams Morgan. I’m not going to paint them as the representative of black men around town, but it doesn’t exactly make one feel comfortable.”

    Oh God, those guys are the worst! I don’t go to Adams Morgan much because of them.

    Like


  304. “But somehow y’all manage to make the distinction. Y’all can do the same thing wrt us Brothas.”

    Let me clarify; There are good black men out there, but for every good black man she meets an attractive white woman will meet 7 or 8 good white men. It’s just a numbers issue. If America were 50% white and 50% black the situation would be different.

    Like


  305. “Go to any college campus and follow the basketball players around. At most college campuses they will be surrounded by swarms of cute, white co-eds.”

    What college campus are you talking about? Most white girls who go for black athletes are lots more likely to go for football players. Who’s better looking – Greg Oden or Reggie Bush? Of course, my college had almost all whites on either team, so what do I know. Anyway, any college girl who looks for some 800-SAT ghetto thug is worthless to me. Maybe why I kind of like the MILFs. I’ll avoid the stupid college girl with her lax attitude towards STD’s.

    Like


  306. “With this relationship, Doronin probably sees a chance to get all of this. He’s bought himself a place in some major global celebrity events and used these opportunities to break into he spotlight in the most positive way possible by romancing a major celebrity and sex-symbol. At the same time, he’s announcing at home that he is such a great and uncompromising Russian patriot that in order to win his heart, even Naomi Campbell will have to convert to Russian Orthodoxy!”

    Yes, this guy is incredibly sharp. I wouldn’t want to have him mad at me, for sure. But I thought there was a tradition of black/mixed people in Russia. Pushkin was part black, and there’s a part black Russian model, Angela Ermakova who produced a uniquely beautiful child after a brief fling with Boris Becker.

    http://www.monstersandcritics.com/people/news/article_1371931.php

    Angela Ermakova wrote a book about how she conceived a celebrity’s child in a broom closet, to the ire of this journalist.

    http://www.russia-now.info/russia/russia_news/angela_ermakova_s_contribution_to_russian_literature_4.html

    Like


  307. Vladimir:

    “I kinda doubt that he’s a devoted Christian of any sort.”

    While your name indicates you may know more about this than I do, all the Russian Orthodox people I’ve known haven’t had any difficulties reconciling their religion with the fact that they’re almost completely without what westerners think of as morality. Really, the idea of Christianity as being constituted of limp wristed milquetoasts is a modern American invention. Orthodoxy is a religion with blood in it.
    Doronin is doubtless a scary guy who worships his god in the same manner than Charles the Hammer did at the Battle of Tours.

    Like


  308. “His conclusion was that clitoral oriented early sexual education has raised a generation of women who can’t have normal sex. They fixate on their clitoris.”

    Of all the bs I’ve read on this blog, that load stinks the worst.

    Like


  309. Re Lois Feldman and Angela Ermakova: sometimes skankiness is like real estate. The vital factor is location, location, location. Cheating on your husband or sleeping with a married man? Slutty. Banging said men in a public toilet or a broom closet? Skanky.

    Like


  310. @Mu: The preference for lighter-skinned black women is still a bit confusing. I understand that it can be on some level, comparable to the blonde fetish in white men (well, all men), but at the end of the day they’re still black. As would you be. So why the chase for the lighter ones? Aren’t you just going to eventually reproduce children your color? Is that the point of going after lighter women? (Serious question here)

    When I see black, I see black. But… another notable difference between here and the South, IRR at home tended to happen amongst lighter black people and white people. In DC, it seems to be mostly really dark black or African men with white women. I can’t see kids on the street with questionable traits. I do see white mothers with black kids though.

    and @chic: Yeah, white men raised on porn and without fathers are overly critical. See: women who can’t eat bread in DC, shock at moderate pubic hair, paleness, underarm stubble within two days. But one of my most contested viewpoints since moving here has been the elevation of women with paperbag faces and disproportionate bodies over women with pretty faces and propotional bodies. I’m not saying the South isn’t fat (we recently got HUGE in some areas), but DC hasn’t exactly bred what you see facewise in North Carolina and Alabama, etc…

    Mu, I don’t know a woman who hasn’t gone “back home” when she’s been welcomed, unless the “overall treatment” was better from “not home”. It really is just easier culture-wise/ kid raising-wise. I think that elevation does have something to do with white women who chase black men. If there is a preference for lighter women, wouldn’t you treat them better to keep them around? Wouldn’t they stay for better treatment if they’re a preferred class after experiencing this? Isn’t this why you see asian women chasing white men ?
    -Grace.

    Like


  311. “But one of my most contested viewpoints since moving here has been the elevation of women with paperbag faces and disproportionate bodies over women with pretty faces and propotional bodies. I’m not saying the South isn’t fat (we recently got HUGE in some areas), but DC hasn’t exactly bred what you see facewise in North Carolina and Alabama, etc…”

    Can you go into a bit more detail about these paper bag faces? Do you mean horse faces?

    Like


  312. Lupo:

    While your name indicates you may know more about this than I do, all the Russian Orthodox people I’ve known haven’t had any difficulties reconciling their religion with the fact that they’re almost completely without what westerners think of as morality. Really, the idea of Christianity as being constituted of limp wristed milquetoasts is a modern American invention.

    A typical modern Russian politician or oligarch is a man who already had some success in Soviet times, either climbing the Communist status hierarchies or making money on the black market, and who then found himself in the right place at the right time in the 1990s and showed enough balls and ruthlessness to climb into the upper echelon of the cutthroat (often literally) world of post-Communist Russian business and politics.

    These people are ultimately products of the Communist system, and as such, they are money and power-hungry nihilists who use religion merely as another cynical way of putting on a mask of respectability in public. Don’t forget that for more than 70 years, Soviet power structures selected for fundamentally ruthless, sly, backstabbing careerists in a way that makes U.S. politics look like a festival of humanitarianism and kindness even at its worst. Not much has changed since in Russian politics and business (which in Russia doesn’t even exist separate from politics in any meaningful way).

    Orthodoxy is a religion with blood in it.

    In Russia, this was only partly true even before 1917. In Czarist times, Russian Orthodox Church had always been torn between outbursts of fanatic grassroots religiosity and the efforts of Czars to turn it into a government tool for enforcing bland conformity. After 1917, it was almost completely destroyed by the Bolsheviks, and afterwards partially reconstituted as a tightly state-controlled institution. The entire priesthood was heavily infiltrated by the KGB, and the upper church hierarchy was staffed entirely by KGB agents (google “Agent Drozdov” for the story of the KGB career of the current Patriarch of Moscow).

    Nowadays, the ROC leadership is 100% in bed with the current regime (they’re all old pals from the KGB anyway), although at lower levels there is probably some breathing space for developing authentic religiosity. In any case, pockets of real Russian Orthodox religiosity have continuously survived only in the Russian diaspora, and they are very suspicious towards the KGB-staffed hierarchy at home.

    Like


  313. “Hello” wrote:
    “Of all the bs I’ve read on this blog, that load stinks the worst.”

    Sucks to be you, I guess. Look it up:

    “Vaginal Orgasm Is Associated with Less Use of Immature
    Psychological Defense Mechanisms ”
    Stuart Brody, PhD,* and Rui Miguel Costa, MA† Journal of Sexual Medicine 2008 pp1167-1176

    Pretty much everything this guy has said has been completely spot on the mark in my experience. My dataset isn’t quite as statistically significant as his, but it says the exact same thing. Another choice quote, which is why no man who respects himself should date a vaginally defective female:

    “… women with a variety of psychiatric and personality disorders had lesser ability to have a vaginal orgasm, but not lesser ability to have a clitoral climax.”

    Like


  314. hello:

    But I thought there was a tradition of black/mixed people in Russia. Pushkin was part black, and there’s a part black Russian model, Angela Ermakova who produced a uniquely beautiful child after a brief fling with Boris Becker.

    If you could read Russian, many of the reader comments about Doronin’s relationship on Russian news websites would raise your hair. It’s worse than you can even imagine.

    Russians are on average *extremely* racist, even for Eastern European standards. Even Russian citizens coming from non-Slavic-populated regions of Russia and the former USSR, who are often physically recognizable as darker or Asian-looking, have always been a target of intense racism in Soviet and post-Soviet times. For occasional non-white immigrants and visitors from abroad, it’s a living hell. If you’re a member of a visible minority, it can be very dangerous to just appear in a public place in Russia. Right now, members of a Moscow skinhead gang are being tried for 20 racially motivated murders (as minors, they’ll likely receive slaps on the wrist). The yearly figures for people killed and seriously injured in racist attacks in Russia are in the hundreds, and nobody even bothers collecting any statistics about less serious incidents.

    As for your examples, Pushkin’s partly African ancestry is an extremely unusual and almost unique historical case. Ermakova, if I’m not mistaken, is one of several thousand (I’m not sure about this figure) half-African Russians who were fathered in Soviet times by foreign students and athletes. (Students from Soviet-aligned countries and athletes who came to international competitions were pretty much the only foreigners roaming around Soviet cities in any significant numbers.) In any case, there is no significant tradition of the sort you describe in Russia.

    Like


  315. Lupo, just because someone with a degree wants to shag Freud’s intellectual corpse, doesn’t mean you have to join them.

    The clitoris extends to the opening of the vagina, and most women who are orgasmic at all can achieve “vaginal orgasms”.

    The problem is of course that women fake it, and that there is such a thing as having enough, but not necessarily orgasming. If you knew the mechanics of orgasm, you’d be able to tell whether a woman was actually orgasming or not.

    Maybe the women who you claim weren’t capable of vaginal orgasms were just not interested in lying to boost your ego…and weren’t assertive enough to show you how to screw in a way that would produce a “vaginal orgasm”.

    Like


  316. Nicole, Lupo,
    Interesting comments. Lupo, will definitely look up the study as you suggested. Although I have to say, having had the good fortune to experience firsthand several Ladies of the G-Sport Kind, that I do not recall anything in particular about their walks that stood out to me. But nevertheless, they did smile a lot.

    Nicole, you’re right about women faking a good bit. And I agree with you that it is not always necessary for a woman to have the Big O everytime out. Having said that, perhaps you’d be so good as to inform us as to how to determine when a woman is and isn’t faking? Thanks.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  317. Grace,
    Yea, I could guess you could say that the whole status/class thing, coupled with lighter/Whiter skin could have something to do with it, never really took it that far. For me, its always been about whether I liked what was in front of me. Period. I’ve never given a fuck what others thought of what I did or didn’t do.

    Hello, and I guess this speaks to some points Grace made too, Obama came under some extremely harsh criticism for stuff he never did, being associated with the actions of the Worst in the Black Race. It was ridiculous, and I say the same thing in your “50% White/Black” reply. Clearly if a Black Man has made it to those levels, he ain’t Snoop or Tupac in terms of demeanor, etc. Moreover, how often do White guys, especially out in the Boonies, kick their White Women’s ass up one side of the street and down the other? So like I said, I make no excuses for the absolutely dumb stuff a good number of Brothas do. But, by and large, and this is sad to say, but true, they tend to do it more to Sistas than anyone else. If a Black Man has made it as far as Obama or Parsons or Woods has, the White Woman on their arm doesn’t have to worry about such things.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  318. Vladimir,
    Very good reading of your points, some of which I was familiar with, notably the levels of Racism in Russian society. I had thought it was more a recent thing, but I see now that its a bit deeper than that.

    Here in Philly there is a significant Russian community in the Northeast. I haven’t heard of many instances of out and out racial conflict on a larger group scale (Philly is majority Black), but I have heard of individual skirmishes.

    One of them involved one my coworkers, Rashid. He had a run in with a Russian guy named Ivan. Ivan had “just come off the boat” and said something very wrong to Rashid. Rashid decided to take the matter up with Ivan after work in the far corner of the parking lot. Ivan had a lot of trouble speakin or doing anything much else after that.

    Maybe its a hometurf advantage thing, but the Russians here locally know good and damn well that Brothas ain’t taking none of their Racist ish lying down, we can be every bit as vicious as they can. So long as they act like they got sense everything will be cool.

    On the other hand, I like Putin.

    And I wish Campbell and the other Vlad well. Perhaps he can straighten her out.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  319. “Maybe the women who you claim weren’t capable of vaginal orgasms were just not interested in lying to boost your ego…and weren’t assertive enough to show you how to screw in a way that would produce a “vaginal orgasm”.”

    No, actually, most of the women I’ve been with who are incapable of vaginal orgasms didn’t believe that any women were ever capable of vaginal orgasms, and that the whole idea of vaginal orgasms was some kind of male porn fantasy, and that women who come this way are “faking it.” You’re probably one of them if you think female vaginal orgasms have anything to do with the external genitalia. Yes, there are tricks a man can do to rub the clitoris with dong while fucking; I learned them in my misspent youth (if anyone’s curious; just move your body a few inches up from where it wants to be -then do yourself a favor and find a woman with a better relationship with her genitalia). Women who fuck that way are still boring pseudo lesbians with vaginal anesthesia. They come once and go to sleep. Lame.

    Vaginas do weird things inside when you hit the spot properly (and sex manuals are wrong; there is such a thing as the g-spot, but vaginal orgasms happen a lot closer to the cervix). Most common is a fluttery vacuum sensation. Sometimes when you go deep, the vacuumy feeling will reverse and actually shove your dong out. Vaginally orgasmic women: they’re all multiple. Women who hold their breaths and concentrate on their clitoris: they almost never are.

    Like


  320. Chic, you had asked me to explain my remarks about Obama.

    Obama’s father was a member of a tribe/clan who was at the higher end of Kenyan society; Harvard grad and a minister in the Kenyan gov’t. His mom’s people worked their up to the point they could live in relative comfort out in Hawaii. As a result, they were able to send Obama to schools, early on, that the vast majority here in this Forum have never been to. That set the stage for him to be able to get into Columbia and then Harvard himself, and the rest, as they say, is history.

    Again, I don’t deny what both T/Ricky and Pete have said: in pure numbers-terms, there are indeed more Black Proles than Whites or Asians. And so it would stand to reason that there is at least a good chance that a good number of Black Male/White Female hookups *could* be on the lower end of the socio econ spectrum.

    But when it comes to Marriages, I think the trend is upward and not downward in econ terms. The Jamaican-Canadian fella I mentioned before, he was and is, hardly a Prole. Today he makes his home of more than three decades in one of the richest counties in one of the richest States in the Union, with his very White, very Blonde, very Blue-Eyed and very Eastern European wife. And I know many other couples like that. Obama ain’t that unusual when you really think about it.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  321. “Sucks to be you, I guess. Look it up:

    ‘Vaginal Orgasm Is Associated with Less Use of Immature
    Psychological Defense Mechanisms ‘
    Stuart Brody, PhD,* and Rui Miguel Costa, MA† Journal of Sexual Medicine 2008 pp1167-1176

    Pretty much everything this guy has said has been completely spot on the mark in my experience. My dataset isn’t quite as statistically significant as his, but it says the exact same thing. Another choice quote, which is why no man who respects himself should date a vaginally defective female:

    ‘… women with a variety of psychiatric and personality disorders had lesser ability to have a vaginal orgasm, but not lesser ability to have a clitoral climax.'”

    I am familiar with the orgasms of only one female, myself, and I’ve never been deficient in vaginal, clitoral or multiple orgasms. I’ll look this up but I really suspect it’s a load of crap.

    Like


  322. “Moreover, how often do White guys, especially out in the Boonies, kick their White Women’s ass up one side of the street and down the other?”

    Of course there are white men who beat their women. I never meant to imply otherwise.

    Like


  323. “On the other hand, I like Putin.”

    Out of curiosity what do you like about Putin?

    “And I wish Campbell and the other Vlad well. Perhaps he can straighten her out.”

    In general I’d think that anyone who dated Naomi was at the risk of getting his ass kicked but I have a feeling this guy can hold his own.

    Like


  324. Chicnoir,

    I wonder whether white men are harder on female looks is because of the fact that white society is more monogamous than black society.

    Like


  325. Hello, I don’t mean to belabour the point, but I am really tired of this notion that somehow Black Men alone have the corner on bad behavior. When it comes to things such as Spousal Abuse, they do not.

    Again, Sistas have more a legit concern of being bopped upside the head, or of dealing with Baby Mama Drama, than you or Grace.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  326. on December 4, 2008 at 8:33 am ironrailsironweights

    eah, white men raised on porn and without fathers are overly critical. See: women who can’t eat bread in DC, shock at moderate pubic hair, paleness, underarm stubble within two days.

    Well, heck.

    Peter

    Like


  327. Lupo says, “No, actually, most of the women I’ve been with who are incapable of vaginal orgasms”

    How do you know they were incapable? Just because they didn’t with you?

    5 minutes of in-out is not going to do it.

    “didn’t believe that any women were ever capable of vaginal orgasms, and that the whole idea of vaginal orgasms was some kind of male porn fantasy, and that women who come this way are “faking it.”

    So you should have proven to them that it’s possible. It’s what I would have done…and if I didn’t succeed, I’d get them close enough that they’d understand how it could happen if they were more receptive.

    …and I don’t even have a penis.

    “You’re probably one of them if you think female vaginal orgasms have anything to do with the external genitalia.”

    You don’t want to go there. I have been doing pelvic floor muscle exercises since I was 12. I can probably tell the difference between a Bic and a Staedtler in there.

    …and I am telling you that orgasm is triggered by a combination of stimulation and oxytocin in women. Since you can’t get into a vagina without going through the opening, there is no way that you can distinguish between a clitoral and vaginal orgasm.

    …and women capable of purely vaginal orgasms, which are only possible with the use of exercise balls or Chinese style vaginal weights or plugs, or some other object that does not touch the opening, are also usually the sort who can think their way to orgasm, or at least get there from nipple stimulation.

    …and by the way, flexing of the muscles in the groin area is still causing clitoral stimulation, however subtle.

    I know my orgasms, and I’m telling you that it’s a bad idea to apply something clinical to an everyday situation.

    “Yes, there are tricks a man can do to rub the clitoris with dong while fucking; I learned them in my misspent youth (if anyone’s curious; just move your body a few inches up from where it wants to be -then do yourself a favor and find a woman with a better relationship with her genitalia). Women who fuck that way are still boring pseudo lesbians with vaginal anesthesia. They come once and go to sleep. Lame.”

    Again, just because you couldn’t do it doesn’t mean it can’t be done. Pelvic override is one of the best techniques to produce multiple orgasms without using your hands.

    You can shag a woman so long and well with it that she could repeatedly orgasm indefinitely until she loses consciousness.

    “Vaginas do weird things inside when you hit the spot properly (and sex manuals are wrong; there is such a thing as the g-spot, but vaginal orgasms happen a lot closer to the cervix). Most common is a fluttery vacuum sensation.”

    No, the cervix dipping is the *result* of the orgasm, not the cause of it…and this happens whether the orgasm is produced by stimulation of the hood or the “wings”.

    “Sometimes when you go deep, the vacuumy feeling will reverse and actually shove your dong out. Vaginally orgasmic women: they’re all multiple. Women who hold their breaths and concentrate on their clitoris: they almost never are.”

    You should really stop shagging women who are starving.

    There are skinny women who exercise, or are just that way from heredity and their normal activity.

    Starving women are less orgasmic. So generally, are women on the pill or other hormonal birth control. Their orgasms are often muted.

    Use condoms with a woman who’s not on the pill, and who actually eats. You’ll see the difference.

    Like


  328. “Maybe its a hometurf advantage thing, but the Russians here locally know good and damn well that Brothas ain’t taking none of their Racist ish lying down, we can be every bit as vicious as they can. So long as they act like they got sense everything will be cool. ”

    Enjoy that for now, blacks. Whites still outnumber you greatly in this country. And will for a long time. Unfortunately, too many whites have completely been emasculated in this society, er go whiterpeople commmitting national suicide by electing a foreign president. Problem is, unlike 40 years ago in the South, whites have decided to give away their country. If whites really had any pride, they’d prevent white women from dating minority men, at any cost. If whites had any pride, any monkey who even touched a white man would be in fear for his life. Now these things will change at some point, as whites become more and more aware of the slow takeover of their country. It’s starting now. At some point, monkeys will know their place again, as they should.

    Btw, white women don’t come back partially because we don’t want them back. Any white woman who has shown the terrible and reckless judgment of dating blacks is pretty much undatable for most white men. Fuckable, maybe, but not worthy of any kind of relationship. White women – when you fuck monkeys, you make your choice.

    Like


  329. I always find it strangely comforting when a xenophobe kvetches about reality.

    Redman, did it ever occur to you that there’s a reason, despite being the majority and most politically and financially influential for a time, White people got “emasculated”?

    Maybe being White isn’t such a wonderful thing to be, in and of itself.

    I encourage you to find your roots and figure out what European country your ancestors were from, and why they ended up in America. It might shed some light on why you, despite being in what you think is the privileged race, you feel alienated.

    If you don’t know where you came from, you don’t know how you got to where you are today. There might be a very good reason for it.

    There were White slaves too. That “indentured servant” stuff is just propaganda to cover the truth. Maybe your ancestors were duped into thinking that Jim Crow laws and whatnot, would actually be helpful to them, but found out the hard way that it still didn’t make any White people with money more willing to share that with your supposedly substandard ancestors.

    They actually wrote pseudoscientific studies back in the day, that “proved” Anglos were inherently superior to the Irish among others.

    So maybe now as then, some White people don’t see mixing with others as such a step down…especially when they’re already basically Black in their way.

    Like


  330. Redman, that was a hilarious comment. Trust me, even if there were nothing but white people left in America, you’d still be powerless, emasculated, bitter and blaming someone else for your feelings of impotence. I know your type well.

    Like


  331. I always find it strangely comforting when a xenophobe kvetches about reality.

    without xenophobia, there wouldn’t be diversity.
    think about it.

    you write a lot of stupid shit, nicole, did you know that?

    Like


  332. I like pie. :-p

    Like


  333. @Hello.
    Paperbag faces being someone you’d think was hot, if they had a paperbag over their faces. In terms of pure facial symmetry or beauty, I don’t always see those women being held up as good-looking in this town. I have seen a lot of average looking women get called beautiful just because they worked out a lot though. (I do not condone obesity by the way)

    For example: There used to be a little crew of women, about 4-5 who were always around a few bars in AdMo about a year or so ago. They were skeletal. Like, actually anorexic. Hair shedding at the bar anorexic (not just into yoga). Only one was actually pretty, and the others were all called hot all of the time. Now I’m not saying these girls were ugly. They were cute. But that’s it. And everytime I saw them, dudes from all around were going crazy over them and these weren’t freshly picked flowers. I think we’ve all seen some hard-run women in their 20’s here. Which is fine. I’ve just never seen them chased so hard as I have here.

    @Mu. I’m not saying that black men have the corner on bad behaivor. I am saying that race isn’t some unimportant factor in mating selection, and that social pressures and status have something to do with that. I don’t know though about the whole, “I just like what I like”, when what you like doesn’t look like you in some way. Or maybe I’m just a narcisist. I tend to get a little uneasy about men who search/seek for something that they are not. I apply the same logic to white men who usually only go for asian girls.

    @Lupo: Not all men are as skilled in some areas as they would like to believe. Nor are all men happy about taking some advice in certain, areas of expertise. But there is probably some truth to this walk issue. In re: men, never had a good dancer who wasn’t a good “dancer”.
    -Grace.

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  334. Nicole opined:

    “How do you know they were incapable? Just because they didn’t with you?”

    Because I asked, dumbass.

    As for “starving” women; most of the frigidaires were on the fat side (a BMI above 22 or so, or waist to hip above 7). I always figured the women who were most in love with themselves were also the most in touch with their bodies. I’ve also speculated about visceral fat causing physical problems inside. Women on the pill are definitely more orgasmic in my experience than those who are not, though I am pretty sure this is sample bias (aka women who like sex like doing it don’t like doing it with a rubber wrapped dong). And no, clitoral orgasms are completely and utterly different from vaginal/penetrative ones; inside and out. This is a well known scientific fact. Where’s your evidence for any of the crap you’re talking about? I’ve given you peer reviewed studies in AMA approved journals.

    “I am telling you that orgasm is triggered by a combination of stimulation and oxytocin in women. ” blah blah non sequitur blah

    Yeah? Who cares? It’s a statistical fact that many women can’t come from dongs, and don’t even know it’s possible. That’s why researchers like Stuart Brody are able to do studies on the subject. I don’t know WTF you think you’re arguing with me about. If you’re not a frigid bitch, shut up and enjoy yourself. If you are, and your whiney castrating Norto Americano innuendos about my alleged inadequacies pretty much fish barrels your fish barrel as a frozen wasteland, shut the fuck up and work on your “pelvic floor exercises” or go to a Lilith fair or something.

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  335. Rose without xenophobia, there wouldn’t be diversity.
    think about it

    Please explain

    Like


  336. T saidThat may have been Mu. I have no skin tone preference. If I think a girl is hot, I don’t care if she’s pale as porcelain or dark as patent leather.

    LOLROF

    Like


  337. “without xenophobia, there wouldn’t be diversity.
    think about it

    Please explain”

    Because we’d all be one race from interbreeding.

    Take a scoop of chocolate ice cream and a scoop of vanilla and put them in a blender. Results, uniform not diverse.

    Diversity used to mean having a variety of (whatever). Now it means the presence of non-white people. Isn’t it odd when a room / company / organization / whatever with nothing but black people is referred to as “diverse”?

    Like


  338. Vladimir,
    Very good reading of your points, some of which I was familiar with, notably the levels of Racism in Russian society. I had thought it was more a recent thing, but I see now that its a bit deeper than that

    Mu, I did too.

    From what I’ve read, racism didn’t really become a problem in Russia until the economy fell apart. I can recall reading about African students who attended university in Russia as well as Paul Roberson visiting Russia. Paul Roberson was a “genius” black actor from the 40-50(?) who excelled at sports, academics as well as acting. He was eventually blk balled because of acceptance of Communism. If I’m not mistaken Richard Wright(author) may have visited Russia as well because he was leaning towards Communism. I can’t recall reading anything negative about the treatment either of the two received while in Russia.

    Grace saidBut one of my most contested viewpoints since moving here has been the elevation of women with paperbag faces and disproportionate bodies over women with pretty faces and propotional bodies. I’m not saying the South isn’t fat (we recently got HUGE in some areas), but DC hasn’t exactly bred what you see facewise in North Carolina and Alabama, etc…”
    I see more blk guys developing this frame of mind. As long as the woman has a big butt, she can get away with having a harsh face.
    hello saidCan you go into a bit more detail about these paper bag faces?
    Do you mean horse faces?

    Hello your question was halirious. For a long time I thought Jennifer Anniston was a paper bag face. Now I can see the girl next door quality that she has.

    Like


  339. Think about it. Few White Women go back to White guys after they been with Brothas
    Mu, some do and some don’t. Those who are open to dating attractive men of any race are more likely to go back. Those who are only attracted to black men, will only date black men.
    Oh, and on the Yellow Sisters: Mu has seen quite a few Brothas score em
    I’ve seen this too Mu but I’ve seen far more white women with blk men . I’ve also noticed that a number of older black men who are war veterans are/were married to Asian women.
    Can’t speak for T, but yea, I do tend to prefer lighter skinned women as a rule
    I glad you can admit that it is largely a prestige thing. Another blk guy has said the same thing. I’ve come across a few black women who only date white, and a couple of them think that somehow being white or with a white man will make life easier. White men don’t beat their wives, cheat, abandon their children, make a good income, educated etc… If they are using this line of thought as their reason for dating white, I think they have it wrong. They should try Asian men.

    I think most people will find attractive people across racial lines. Who most people marry is another story.

    Someone Jennifer Hudson’s and Angie Stone’s complexion can definitely get it provided they fine enough.Jennifer hudson is medium brown but Angie Stone is dark skinned. She runs on the darker side for African-Americans. So I guess you will go dark skinned if the attraction is there.

    euro You have NO IDEA what a mind-flip it is to date a Kaszubian woman from Gdansk as a male American Jew please explain

    hello said And yes, the white male jealousy/insecurity thing is real
    Yes hello, I’ve seen it on this site and well as well as from the horse’s mouth.

    Like


  340. Lupo,
    I actually agree with a lot of what you say, if your prose style could use a little tweaking to be persuasive. Yes, tense stressed out women have trouble functioning sexually. Deep breathing and yoga help with this.

    As far as sex education preventing women from having deep vaginal orgasms this has not been my experience. I did once read a book claiming that there was nearly no sensation in the vagina (!) and I knew that was crap.

    Vaginal orgasms are more personal than clitoral ones. If you don’t trust your man or the relationship is going badly he won’t make you “hit the jackpot” no matter how skilled he is (and it is a skill). Vaginal orgasms pull a man’s semen into the cervix, so basically the woman’s body trusts him to be around to help take care of a baby. Now she may distrust you or the relationship may be going badly because she’s totally neurotic, but that’s the way women are wired.

    For your sake I hope your game is more persuasive than

    “If you are, and your whiney castrating Norto Americano innuendos about my alleged inadequacies pretty much fish barrels your fish barrel as a frozen wasteland, shut the fuck up and work on your “pelvic floor exercises” or go to a Lilith fair or something.”

    But if you teach more men about how to find the g-spot all is forgiven.

    BTW chic, once you get a vaginal orgasm you may very well forget all about cunnilingus 🙂

    Like


  341. Mu said White Guys know of the Woodhandling Skills many Brothas have-and of the curiousity many White Women have
    Yea, not all brothers Mu. Some of you don’t have a clue. Size ain’t everything and all of you don’t have size. Thank God
    Sisters are tried of coming across those of you who don’t “eat”. BTW, one of the stereotypes of wht guys is that they like to “eat”.
    Hello,
    Most men anywhere tend to prefer fairer skinned ladies. Nothing new there. Very few guys like women darker than them, and vice versa
    Grace said “Oh sh*t” and her second thought was “This is NOT what Save the Last Dance was like”, it got not so awesome REALLY fast
    *DEAD DEAD DEAD*
    This is a real contender for December’s comment of the month.
    Although, I’ve heard the princess treatment gets higher if you date minority menDead from her second thought Yes, I’ve heard this and seen it with my own two eyes.
    I’ve had more than a few black men who’ve tried to pick me up in DC get clammish when I’ve asked when was the last black girl that they’ve dated
    I’ve used this or a varation on white guys who have tried to pick me up in the past. Let’s you know what’s really going on.
    Or a fling that became a “dickmatized” life lesson.
    I love it!
    life before the feminism movement was NOT so good for most women below a certain income bracket or class level (although that is still true). You picked who you thought wouldn’t beat you, could keep a roof over your head, and wouldn’t spend all the money on gambling and whores.
    Epic comment grace
    Some results of feminism are part of why American men are seen as such catches amongst women of foreign cultures (also left out of discussion on this blog, but I digress
    Another epic comment. I could of sworn I mentioned something along this line before.

    Like


  342. “Paperbag faces being someone you’d think was hot, if they had a paperbag over their faces. In terms of pure facial symmetry or beauty, I don’t always see those women being held up as good-looking in this town. I have seen a lot of average looking women get called beautiful just because they worked out a lot though. (I do not condone obesity by the way)”

    Ah yes, I know the type. But have you taken a look at the guys they get? As far as I’m concerned they can have them.

    Like


  343. Vaginal orgasms pull a man’s semen into the cervix, so basically the woman’s body trusts him to be around to help take care of a baby.

    So so so wrong.

    Ok, 1/2 right.

    Female orgasms make the cervix more permeable to sperm (as long as the sperm are released within about 2 minutes) but it’s not beta providers that trigger them.

    It’s the alpha she wishes would commit but who’s genes she’ll take as a second prize.

    Hell, it might even be the man she would never want around (because he’s violent and destructive) but who makes her pussy quiver because he’s just so manly.

    Like


  344. Some results of feminism are part of why American men are seen as such catches amongst women of foreign cultures (also left out of discussion on this blog, but I digress

    Just not this one.

    Look at who gets laid in America; it sure isn’t the guys who live up to the stupid ideas of feminists.

    Like


  345. Hello said would say that white American men tend to be very fixated on the Playboy bunny/Hooters girl look and are less open then black, Hispanic, and European men are to other types of beauty
    Hello, you are right. I don’t know why I didn’t separate the two. I’ve mentioned how different French playboy in comparison to American playboy.
    I’ve known some white men that like black women over the years. None of them were successful, except one dude with a biracial girl, and were rejected quite contemptuously by the black girls they approached
    The “greater community” socializes African-American women to not date white men. I think that’s why it’s easier to white American men to date African women.
    Of course there are exceptions and some black parents don’t care who their children bring home as long as the person treats them well. Funny enough, Italians are sometimes given a break.

    Like


  346. When was the last the time you were a woman? As far as what beta men can induce let me tell you it is much easier to get a somewhat beta-ish guy to be aggressive in the bedroom than to get a genuine alpha to be faithful and take care of the kids. You know the saying “Can’t turn a ho into a housewife” also applies to men.

    And no I would not marry a beta-sh guy and shag alphas on the side. I’m sorry you think this way but I know my body and what I respond to.

    Like


  347. P.S. last comment was for Steve Johnson

    Like


  348. “The “greater community” socializes African-American women to not date white men.”

    Ok, here’s the biology view on this stuff because I’m pretty sick of all these ad hoc reasons for stuff that should be obvious.

    Black people are higher testosterone and more muscular than white people who are higher testosterone and more muscular than asian people.

    Women demand partners who are more successful then they are for long term pairings but for short term pairings they want men who are more muscular and aggressive and have more of all those other testosterone related traits than they do. Black women will (mostly) only date black men for the exact same reason that (lots of) black men prefer white women and (some) white women are open to dating black men but (almost) no white women are open to dating asian guys. It’s no mystery about how the “greater community” socializes women to want this or that and men to want something different.

    Black people -> men more sexy, women less so
    Asian people -> women more sexy, men less so

    When everything is opened up you’d expect white guys to clean up with asian chicks and black guys to to quite well with white chicks.

    Like


  349. “When was the last the time you were a woman?”

    Ah, the beauty of women’s arguments.

    You missed the parts about hating my mother and possibly being gay.

    Women’s orgasms are designed to get sperm from the lover she believes has the best genes, not from the best provider. That’s why women who cheat are more likely to conceive with their lovers than their husbands.

    Way to take a general statement, think “this isn’t true about me!” and blurt out that it’s wrong.

    Like


  350. Angie Stone

    I must admit, she’s rather alluring, mind you, when she has “straight” hair.

    Because we’d all be one race from interbreeding.

    And what’s so bad about that. No more racism. 🙂

    I see more blk guys developing this frame of mind. As long as the woman has a big butt, she can get away with having a harsh face.

    It depends on the girl. I think my non-date g/f is beautiful despite most of the men in this blog calling her hideous or worse, while a girl at work with a kick ass body looks like a man, especially when she has short hair.

    Like


  351. Steve Johnson, that’s not true. As I’ve mentioned before, there are very few black women who have never found a white man attractive. If I hear one more black woman who is over 50 go on and on about Robert Redford (in his prime) I’ll kill myself. In addition to the way African-American women are socialized, many of them see white American men as wimpy (personality). It has nothing to due with muscularity testosterone etc.. from Steve Sailor. Otherwise, they would not find French, Italian Russian, and German (occasionally) attractive.

    Like


  352. it is much easier to get a somewhat beta-ish guy to be aggressive in the bedroom

    I laugh at your challenge. 🙂

    Like


  353. Steve Johnson,
    I’m aware of the research as presented in “The Red Queen” and I don’t doubt it’s validity but it doesn’t means that the less than alpha men (if we’re to stay in this black and white dichotomy) are incapable of producing high retention orgasms and that all women cheat. On page 225 Ridley notes that faithful women do have high retention orgasms with their husbands.

    It’s also a leap to assume that all of the adulterous affairs detailed in this study were with alpha males. Look at Lois Feldman’s fling partner. There were no qualifiers in your post so the burden of proof is on you. Where’s the science to prove that 100% of affairs are with the Vladimir Doronins of the world?

    Like


  354. Robert Redford is Robert Redford. He was famous and incredibly good looking. All women will spread for that combination.

    “n addition to the way African-American women are socialized, many of them see white American men as wimpy (personality).”

    Testosterone isn’t just associated with bigger muscles. “Wimpy” personalities are just as much the result of lower test as wimpy bodies.

    “Otherwise, they would not find French, Italian Russian, and German (occasionally) attractive.”

    The key word is “occasionally”. I’ve seen pictures of a wild polar bear playing with dog (you should look for them, they’re pretty amazing). Doesn’t mean that it’s a good idea to adopt a polar bear cub. Occasionally tells you almost nothing in a world with billions of people.

    Like


  355. “If I hear one more black woman who is over 50 go on and on about Robert Redford (in his prime) I’ll kill myself. ”

    I once knew a black lady who thought Warren Beatty was hot. A secretary at work thought Mitt Romney was a looker but she still voted for Obama

    Like


  356. hello,

    Not all women cheat. Some orgasms that women have with their regular partners are of the high retention type. Human sexuality is all about slightly different choices being made by people. We’re not some species of wasp that has an elaborate, specific, genetically coded mating dance.

    Doesn’t change the overall facts:

    Women prefer high test men more when they are more fertile
    When women cheat they are likely to do so with higher test men

    If you enjoyed reading Red Queen, btw, I’d recommend Sperm Wars by Robin Baker as well. It’s exclusively focused on human sexuality and has some seriously eye opening stuff in it.

    Like


  357. Re interracial marriage:
    Josephine Premice was a black actress who married the scion of a WASP Upper East side aristocratic family in 1958.

    http://www.csudh.edu/dearhabermas/faleshill01.htm

    Like


  358. We’re leaving something out here. What is a little strange in all of this sex talk, is that for genetic reasons, wouldn’t some women not have all of the nerve receptors for massive vaginal orgasms? I’m not saying this is a majority, but considering that some bodily traits are genetic, and the fact that only in the past 50 years has it become more widely known that the clitoris stretches through the mons area, couldn’t some women not have the actual ability to have vaginal orgasms? Not everyone can roll their tongue, it’s genetic. Could deep vaginal orgasmisms run the same in terms of genetic ability?

    Also, relaxation and skill from a partner can be KEY deciders here. A lot of men DON’T know what they’re doing. It only takes one to know what you’ve been missing.

    @David, shy men can get REALLY aggressive and creative once given “permission”/not laughed at in intimate situations. They’ve been saving that pent up energy, and are literally ready and willing to try a lot of things that other men wouldn’t do. It’s more of getting them that option than anything else. I mean, you watch porn all the time, and you’re shy.

    Asian men/white women pairings are getting more common, esp. with the high presence at top tier schools. Lots of women want doctors, lawyers, etc, and hapas tend to be cute kids.

    @chic, hell, I’d STILL sleep with Robert Redford. I remember being jealous of Demi Moore when I was a child in “Indecent Proposal”. But Warren Beatty rustled more than a few feathers in my aunts.

    Steve Johnson: Yes, actually quite a few men get laid due to the stupid ideas of feminists. Don’t lump all ideas labled as “feminist” as serving all women. SOME of them (I’m cautious about even bringing this up here), are really some crackpot shit. But most of it has foundations in women having protections that citizens of a society should recieve, and a lot of it has foundations for protections of what happens when men don’t live up to the standard necessary for feminism to not exist. (steps off soapbox)
    -Grace.

    Like


  359. Lupo says, “Because I asked, dumbass.”

    Well, at this point is when I give you the middle finger in my mind because in real life is you spoke to me this way I’d tell you to go fuck yourself because you deserve whatever misery and dissatisfaction you get for being sexually retarded and too much of an asshole to learn anything.

    Like


  360. “I actually agree with a lot of what you say, if your prose style could use a little tweaking to be persuasive.”

    Who’s trying to be persuasive? I’m stating simple facts. I’m sorry some frigid ding dong wants to argue about it because she’s never been fucked properly, but you can hardly expect me to be a cute and fuzzy bunny rabbit when some slag gives me a the business.

    Thanks for your concern and all, but I don’t need game. I’m here for laffs and because Roissy is hilarious.

    Like


  361. Lupo asks, “Who’s trying to be persuasive?”

    Certainly not you…

    “I’m stating simple facts.”

    No, you were making statements. That doesn’t make them facts.

    …though if you weren’t trying to convince anyone that what you were saying was factual, I do wonder what other purpose you had for saying it.

    Do you have some kind of new textual version of Tourettes?

    “I’m sorry some frigid ding dong wants to argue about it because she’s never been fucked properly,”

    ???

    “but you can hardly expect me to be a cute and fuzzy bunny rabbit when some slag gives me a the business.”

    I’d settle for worthy to even be speaking to me.

    Look kid, when you pull your head out of your arse, and read what I actually wrote rather than making up some imaginary villain to suit your self pity, we’ll talk.

    Until then, there’s just one thing you should understand:

    You fail.

    Worse, you gave us graphic details of your failure.

    You know you need game when even a fat old broad doesn’t like you.

    Like


  362. You know, Redman’s antics, and the Nicole/Lupo War aside, there IS a very interesting question here, and one that does not explicitly present itself insofar as Game manuals and the like are concerned…

    And that, is the touchy problem of guys learning how to screw.

    Let’s face it, its the Men who do the Grunt Work in the bedroom; and if he fails, he fails, big.

    The vast majority of men will NEVER admit it, but to let the ladies tell it, there aren’t many who can do the deed.

    So, let’s assume for the sake of this argument, that both you Lupo, and you Nicole, are correct, OK?

    The question for me becomes:

    How does a guy learn this stuff? And I’m being serious. Game will get you to the bedroom, alright;

    THEN what?

    Comments?

    Let’s try to find something constructive here, please. Thanks.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  363. “White men don’t beat their wives, cheat, abandon their children, make a good income, educated etc…”

    In the marriage I referenced above the white husband cheated and the couple eventually divorced. So yes, men are men whatever their race.

    Like


  364. Mu, learning how to shag is kind of like learning how to be a man in general. If you didn’t have a good example, the next best thing is to have a good instructor…and unfortunately sex education has been hijacked by feminists.

    So what I did to find answers was talk to happy people with fulfilling sex lives, read old stuff like translations of the Kama Sutra, and Ovide’s _Art of Love_, and get raw technical information from experts in the field whose clients wanted more than a hole.

    Some of my male friends have taken a similar path in their sexual development, and they have a much better time of gaining and keeping the attention of women who are open minded but not hoes, than those who prefer to remain in ignorance.

    When you are well developed, it affects your confidence in a positive way because it’s based on more than your wishful thinking. So obviously your game will be tighter because you won’t blink.

    The thing is, no matter how good you are technically, the way a man has sex and the way he makes love are two very different things. No matter how good you are, you won’t enjoy the results of inducing the chemistry that comes from making love, and having a woman totally surrender to you, because you won’t be totally surrendered to her. You can however, have a good time and make sure everyone involved had a good time, and this will be enough for people who don’t want to get deeply involved.

    The only problem is that how what you do is received will be relative to the experiences and awareness of the person you’re getting involved with. A woman who had a good father and other strong male role models in her life will usually understand the difference between a touch and a loving touch. Women who had mostly aloof male role models, or absent fathers may not know the difference, and convince herself that you like her just because you gave her a mechanical orgasm.

    If she’s screwed up and has lost her own ability to use sex as at least an expression of bonding, or a bonding mechanism, then she might not realize you care even if you pour your soul out through your lips, hands, and penis.

    So it’s good to have a strong hold of theory before you venture out there, but some things you just don’t find out until you get there…and if you go the wrong direction, you may never.

    It’s one reason I warn against disqualifying people based on irrelevent criteria. It’s not that you’re depriving someone else. You could be depriving yourself.

    …although deep down I think people pursue what they know they deserve, and don’t pursue what they don’t. If someone doesn’t think they deserve mindblowing sex with a deathgrip bonding partner, then they will select people who are less likely to be capable of this.

    Like


  365. “You know you need game when even a fat old broad doesn’t like you.”

    That’s why I don’t need game, icicle-chooch. I have no interest in the high opinions of fat old broads on the internet: I live in a college town. Pissing them off is great fun though.

    “It’s one reason I warn against disqualifying people based on irrelevent criteria. It’s not that you’re depriving someone else. You could be depriving yourself.”

    Bwahahaha. I believe Roissy has already pointed out the epic folly of listening to a woman on the subject of women. The bleatings of a broken female who would be disqualified by any rational filter one could think of. Tell me Nicole: how do you feel about your daddy after the divorce?

    Like


  366. Mu wrote:
    “How does a guy learn this stuff? And I’m being serious.”

    Same way you learn anything else: practise. Older women can be useful as well, but you have to find a good one. Some (usually damaged) older women will try to teach you exactly how to ring their bell using time-motion efficiency studies. This is like learning to dance or fight by talking about it: basically, it’s impossible. If she has to talk about it; she’s retarded: eject. A proper horizontal mambo teacher will teach you without your knowing you are in school.

    Helps for you to be physically fit too. Karate probably did more for my end-game than anything else. It teaches you subtle stuff about picking up on body cues as well. Barring martial arts, I recommend olympic lifting.

    Like


  367. Lupo…c’mon man. I can respect that you disagree and may even dislike the lady; but really, is all that necessary? Yea, I’ll admit it, my Gentlemanly ways are showing, but we don’t have to proceed like this.

    I’m asking the question above because I happen to be something of a mentor to a number of youngbucks who didn’t have anyone around like a dad etc and now find themselves out in the Dating World’s equivalent of the Meat Grinder. And while I do agree w/Roissy and others-we call it the Rule of Ten Percent-about swallowing wholecloth what Women in general say about carnal matters, like everything else in Life, there are exceptions. Maybe an old fat woman, to put it bluntly, and no disrespect to Nicole in anyway, just might have something of merit to add to the conversation. At the very least, it costs me nothing to listen.

    Nor does it diminish your points, Lupo. I like to listen to all sides. Any Wise Man would.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  368. Lupo,
    Just saw your last response. Thanks. I’ve mentioned this before, but I dabbled a bit with Aikido, its a lot like dancing, LOL.

    And I agree, and I must respectfully disagree with Tupac Chopra, one of thee best lays I’ve ever had was back when I was about 20 or so, and I spent the Summer and Fall with a lady about 35 years old at the time; yea, it was like that.

    Keeping in shape is good.

    Thanks again.

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  369. hello
    Re interracial marriage:
    Josephine Premice was a black actress who married the scion of a WASP Upper East side aristocratic family in 1958.

    Yea she was one of the blk women who was born into the 5th ave bunch. She wrote an autobiography detailing her life and the trials and tribulations that her parents suffered to be together.

    Magie Betts and her sister are two who were born into the Park Ave crowd.
    Jacki Reid*,Thelma Golden, and Kim Heirston are three blk socialites who worked their way into that crowd.

    Like


  370. Lupo says, “That’s why I don’t need game, icicle-chooch.”

    You don’t even know how to cuss right yet.

    “I have no interest in the high opinions of fat old broads on the internet: I live in a college town. Pissing them off is great fun though.”

    Yet you are still responding. The hits (of irony) just keep on coming.

    “‘It’s one reason I warn against disqualifying people based on irrelevent criteria. It’s not that you’re depriving someone else. You could be depriving yourself.’

    Bwahahaha. I believe Roissy has already pointed out the epic folly of listening to a woman on the subject of women.”

    That may be true of straight women who have little or no sexual experience with women. That does not apply to me.

    Let that sink in for a moment while you’re re-reading my posts.

    Despite the hype from both ignorant males and unaware females, there isn’t a whole lot of variation in sexual response between women. Barring some actual physical damage or severe psychological problems, almost any woman who is orgasmic at all, is capable of vaginal orgasms. The ones who aren’t are at least capable of extending or enhancing orgasmic level pleasure through vaginal stimulation.

    I’ve never talked with a woman about what she’s capable of before doing it. That is a painfully beta thing to do, even for a girl. If she wants to discuss it first, I consider it a shit test and just ignore it.

    “The bleatings of a broken female who would be disqualified by any rational filter one could think of.”

    People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, padawan. You may want to watch who you accuse of bleating while you’re parrotting Weight Watchers ads.

    Hostility and offensiveness doesn’t make you a rebel. It just makes you hostile and offensive.

    “Tell me Nicole: how do you feel about your daddy after the divorce?”

    I’m not aware of my daddy ever being divorced. Do you know something that I don’t?

    …and you’d be advised not to bring my dad into this. Perhaps unjustifiably, he would laugh at most guys here, and ask me why I even bother posting.

    If I tried to explain to him that it’s half freakshow factor, partly sympathy from having lived in the DC area, and partly a desire to represent the unapologetic non Barbie point of view, he would just tell me I’m wasting my talent here, and should build my own website on the topic.

    When I’d admit to him at that point that I’m not really that motivated to maintain my own site on game and whatnot, he would tell me that this ought to tell me something.

    That something would be the same reason I took in stray cats even back when it was harder on my sinuses.

    Where there are no cats, there are rats.

    …and his answer would be that if people choose to wallow in vermin and soil their own table, I should let them.

    This debate between us is still ongoing…but never you worry, as someday he might win.

    Like


  371. Steve Johnson, occasionally was used for the attractiveness of German men.

    Testosterone isn’t just associated with bigger muscles. “Wimpy” personalities are just as much the result of lower test as wimpy bodies.
    I think the wimpy personalities are more nurture than nature. BTW, parole(hs) Whites and those who didn’t grow up in the suburbs, are less likely to have that sort of wimpy personality that most women find a turn off. People adjust to their surroundings and if one grows up in environment where arguments don’t escalate into fist fights, he/she will probably find fist fighting very scary.

    BTW, having a country where a number of men have “wimpy” certainly has its’ good points. Most notably of which, the fact that we live peaceably in this country, for the most part unlike in countries where male honor is seen as something worth dying for. The average American of any race would find it difficult to hack the body of another human beings apart with a machete, but in some parts of world that’s a normal way to kill an enemy.

    Grace said @chic, hell, I’d STILL sleep with Robert Redford. I remember being jealous of Demi Moore when I was a child in “Indecent Proposal”. But Warren Beatty rustled more than a few feathers in my aunts
    I could not understand why so many older blk women talked about Redford with a dreamy look in their eyes until I googled some older pics of him. I eyes got as big as saucers. Victor Newman from Y&R is another favorite as well as Paul Newman. Tom Jones is also big among older blk women. The first time I saw him in an interview, I thought he was a light skinned blk guy of the Charles Rangel type.

    Like


  372. Lupo that was a bit much. The one thing no woman (but a dysfunctional one) likes is a bitter man who enjoys beating on women.

    Mu said Lupo…c’mon man. I can respect that you disagree and may even dislike the lady; but really, is all that necessary? Yea, I’ll admit it, my Gentlemanly ways are showing,

    I like your gentlemanly ways Mu, they are becoming extinct in the under 40 crowd.

    Like


  373. Lupo saidI’m sorry some frigid ding dong wants to argue about it because she’s never been fucked properly
    Um that would be me but I don’t really like to argue.

    Like


  374. Because we’d all be one race from interbreeding.

    DA saidAnd what’s so bad about that. No more racism

    Da human beings will always find some way to discriminate or create distinction amongst themselves. Furthermore, even if there were total miscegenation, some people would be darker than others. Mel B from the spice girls has a white mom, yet her skin is a bit darker than my own. In contrast, Mariah Carey and Carly Simon are mixed race yet neither look black.

    Like


  375. “Let that sink in for a moment while you’re re-reading my posts.”

    So you’re admitting to being a bitter castrating dyke who hates her daddy. I’m glad we agree on who you are. Why should anyone who isn’t a lesbian listen to your dumb fucked-up ass?

    As for the rest of you telling me to be nice: I am nice to people who are nice to me.

    Like


  376. Steve JohnsonBlack women will (mostly) only date black men for the exact same reason that (lots of) black men prefer white women
    Steve Johnson, men unlike he sleep with almost anything when they can’t get their preferred pick. Whiskey may not like black women but I bet you next month’s rent or mortgage that he would not throw me out of his bed at two in the morning. The black men who prefer white women are for the most part not like DA. In other words they can get it up for a sister and often have children with black women but prefer the prestige and/or looks of a white woman.
    Black people -> men more sexy, women less so
    Asian people -> women more sexy, men less so
    You see the problem I have with things like this is looking at race and sexuality in America and attempting to make it seem as if it’s true of all human beings. When I went to Amsterdam, the black/white couples were overwhelmingly black female/white male. The few Asian/ white couples were almost always non Dutch people(usually American). I am part Ethiopian and as a sort of unwritten rule, Ethiopian men don’t marry out much or even date women who are not Ethiopian or at the very least look Ethiopian. Nature and Nurture are equally important when looking at human sexuality.
    When everything is opened up you’d expect white guys to clean up with asian chicks and black guys to to quite well with white chicks
    I think we can agree Steve that at the end of the day, men like a variety of women to sleep with but look for something different or special in a wife.
    Hell, it might even be the man she would never want around (because he’s violent and destructive) but who makes her pussy quiver because he’s just so manly
    Most men are betas. Very few men have the Clinton effect. Game can’t give you that because it comes from nature. When I see Mystery or Straus(?) on TV I don’t feel any type of physical reaction taking place inside of my body. Now Janka(a pure douche) and Obama on the other hand, pull many women including myself right on in.
    men more sexy, women less so
    Asian people -> women more sexy, men less so
    You see the problem I have with things like this is looking at race and sexuality in America and attempting to make it seem as if it’s true of all human beings. When I went to Amsterdam, the black/white couples were overwhelmingly black female/white male. The few Asian/ white couples were almost always non Dutch people(usually American). I am part Ethiopian and as a sort of unwritten rule, Ethiopian men don’t marry out much or even date women who are not Ethiopian or at the very least look Ethiopian. Nature and Nurture are equally important when looking at human sexuality.

    Like


  377. Thanks, Chic. The irony is, that me and DA’s more “genteel” flow isn’t dying on its own, but being *pushed* out, and by your side of the aisle so to speak. For all the handwringing so many Women I’ve hear lambaste Game, the fact remains true-Nice Guys just don’t finish last, but they get shitted on First.

    Now the meme is, you have to *really mean it* when you’re being a “friend” to a Woman. Now, even without Game, just using your head, that should send all kind of alarms going off right? I mean, the kind of Psy-Ops at work here makes Game’s version look like a skateboard next to a BMW. Not even close.

    More in a sec…

    Salaam
    Mu

    Like


  378. ” I am part Ethiopian and as a sort of unwritten rule, Ethiopian men don’t marry out much or even date women who are not Ethiopian or at the very least look Ethiopian. Nature and Nurture are equally important when looking at human sexuality.”

    Is that your portrait? You look Ethiopian. Most black posters here have immigrant roots. What about you Mu and Nic?

    “Most men are betas. Very few men have the Clinton effect. Game can’t give you that because it comes from nature. When I see Mystery or Straus(?) on TV I don’t feel any type of physical reaction taking place inside of my body. Now Janka(a pure douche) and Obama on the other hand, pull many women including myself right on in.”

    *high five* My fave is Marlon Brando. Game will help a guy if he can’t get girls, but there’s no manual or method on earth that will give a man Clinton-level magnetism because it is inborn. I got very concerned reading the deleriously optimistic reviews of said books on Amazon. If you’re thirty and have never displayed a hint of Brando level charisma you’ll simply have to do without it.

    Also, the most charismatically sexy men are frequently not high T personalities. Clinton was famous for feeling people’s pain, but I’ll bet you anything he gets more booty than Hulk Hogan. Charismatic men don’t have to do or say anything for their charisma to work it’s magic; their mere physical presence does the trick. It is grossly unjust, but that’s the way it is.

    Like


  379. Nicole’s “learning how to shag” comment is first-rate. Technique is necessary but not sufficient — feeling, mood, sympathy and empathy, imagination, sensitivity, etc, all count for a lot. And a person can learn a whole lot by 1) sleeping around some, and 2) looking into the literature and art that’s out there about love and sex. So many books, so many movies …

    A whole lot of wisdom has been accumulated over the eons. Why not explore it? Game is cool, and I certainly wish it had been around when I was younger. But there’s a reinventing-the-wheel quality to it too. All this stuff (and more) was known already, even if it had never been formulated in quite such an aggressive, bullet-pointed sort of way.

    Like


  380. No, I post that pic because the young lady is so innocent looking. I’m just a quater Ethopian but I consider myself African-American.
    I occasionally post my pic here.
    Most black posters here have immigrant roots
    Yea, DA and I commented on that before.
    *high five* My fave is Marlon Brando
    Yea Brando was so fly in his day. He supported the Civil Rights movement too. I think he may have even attended a march once. I can only imagine what went throught those college girls heads when Brando walked into the room.

    Google Russel Wong, he’s started falling apart as he has gotton older but he was very very very good looking during his peak. I wonder if he played the part of super handsome husband in the Joy Luck Club.

    Also, the most charismatically sexy men are frequently not high T personalities
    I buy this in full. They make you feel lightheaded, dizzy, sometimes the people surrounding them will shift out of focus. The “clinton factor” guy will look as if you are looking at him with an Oprah camera.* Your body starts to feel warm, tingly, and aroused. You don’t go into the fight or flight panic that a high T personalities can cause when around a “clinton factor” type. Is it any wonder why I put distance between myself and men with the “clinton factor” .

    By the way hello, it’s said that musician Eyrah Badu has a strong pull on people too. Men in the music industry joke about her sucking them in. They say men should avoid looking Eyrah directly in the eyes for any extended period of time..

    * If you’ve ever watched Oprah you know what an Oprah camera is. It softens your face and blurs any imperfections you may have.

    Mu the fact remains true-Nice Guys just don’t finish last, but they get shitted on First
    Except with me :).

    Like


  381. FWIW, according to one bio of Brando that I read, he treated himself to two or three new girls every day for decades. Early on, he most likely experimented with gay sex. And, yes, Marlon most certainly did have a thing for “exotic” women. They tended to be of the Mexican or South Seas type.

    Like


  382. Yea, his son’s mom is from the South Pacific I think(?)

    Like


  383. Chic,
    “I occasionally post my pic here.”

    Then you’re braver than I.

    “I wonder if he played the part of super handsome husband in the Joy Luck Club.”

    I fucking LOVE Russell Wong! He was so hot and sexy as the wifebeater in the Joy Luck Club. Permanently turned me onto Asian men. And he was a professional ballet dancer for a while!
    *melting*
    If you want to meet girls study ballet. There are lots of beautiful girls there and almost no straight men.

    He has a half-black daughter but I can’t find a good picture of her.

    I like nice guys too, but none of these guys believe us.

    MB,

    “FWIW, according to one bio of Brando that I read, he treated himself to two or three new girls every day for decades.”

    *scouring the Internet for a time machine*

    Like


  384. Funny:

    hello-
    “I like nice guys too, but none of these guys believe us.

    MB,

    “FWIW, according to one bio of Brando that I read, he treated himself to two or three new girls every day for decades.”

    *scouring the Internet for a time machine*”

    Usually people wait a a sentence or two before contradicting themselves.

    Like


  385. And he was a professional ballet dancer for a while!
    *melting*
    😯
    He was, so that means he’s flexible. I’ve always thought there was something very elegant about Russell Wong.

    He has a half-black daughter but I can’t find a good picture of her
    Yea, that’s my daughter
    j/k

    FWIW, according to one bio of Brando that I read, he treated himself to two or three new girls every day for decades.

    *scouring the Internet for a time machine*

    *DEAD*

    Like


  386. Ah, les femmes … So they contradict themselves! It is part of their charm, non?

    Like


  387. Ah, les femmes … So they contradict themselves! It is part of their charm, non?

    Moi non

    hello goggle Tray Tang and Archie David Kao. Kao has that pretty boy look that I love like which Reggie Bush and Jessie Medcafe also share.

    Like


  388. “Usually people wait a a sentence or two before contradicting themselves.”

    Since humor appears beyond you let me spell this out. Although I fantasize about men like Marlon Brando I know that they do not fulfill me emotionally or intellectually. I tend to get emotionally attached to my lovers and I would be worse off by shagging a Marlon Brando character. As Chic noted very very few men are true Alphas and since sharing such a man with his scores of other men would leave me with little real happiness I prefer a nice guy of my own. If you believe that all women are lying faithless whores nothing I say can convince you, but just as most men lust after skanks but marry non-slutty women most women lust after Brando et al but marry nice guys because they know the difference between fantasy lust and real life commitment. Most women know they are not their men’s fantasy Playmate but live with it. As far as infidelity goes men cheat more than women.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17951664/

    Like


  389. “Yea, that’s my daughter”

    you and I must start sharing an alpha 🙂

    Like


  390. Steve Johnson
    Usually people wait a a sentence or two before contradicting themselves
    Now Steve I am sure you know Hello was only joking. As a guy, even you must admit that Brando was gorgeous in his day.

    Like


  391. Pretty boys are absolutely lethal to some women. The love that women feel for children runs even deeper than that they feel for men, and pretty boys thus tap into both sides of our emotional cores. Hence the fainting that chic and I do here on a regular basis.

    Like


  392. Most black posters here have immigrant roots

    Island pride bitches!

    Furthermore, even if there were total miscegenation, some people would be darker than others.

    Interestingly, judging by my friends and family, colour inheritance can be screwy. I’ve seen instances where two dark parents can have light skinned children due to the light-skin of the grandparents and great grandparents. While some mulatto families can have dark skinned offspring.

    No, I post that pic because the young lady is so innocent looking.

    That’s false advertisement, Chic.

    Like


  393. Lupo says, “So you’re admitting to being a bitter castrating dyke who hates her daddy.”

    If it keeps you warm at night, you can believe that if you want.

    However, an accurate description would be drama free, mostly untainted despite very bad nonconsensual experiences, pro men bisexual female who loves her daddy so much she’s accused of having an Electra complex (invariably by men who don’t measure up).

    I sometimes come off as a castrating bitch to men who are less man than me, though I make no claims of being an example of manhood. I’ve scored in some so-called brain gender tests as an extremely male thinker, but I think that’s only because of stereotypes about masculinity and femininity. I see nothing about having a high level of empathy that should preclude one being able to assemble a computer or read maps.

    “I’m glad we agree on who you are.”

    No, you just made assumptions that are in line with a self pitying crybaby who thinks the world owes you something you lack the will to earn.

    Someone who tells you to put a little more effort into it, or open your eyes must be wrong. Now I understand why you like this site so much even though you claim not to need game.

    “Why should anyone who isn’t a lesbian listen to your dumb fucked-up ass?”

    Admittedly, most of what I said is indeed useless to you. It’s not as if you’ll ever be worthy of a sexually healthy woman. If you were lucky enough to encounter one, you’d call her a dumb, fucked up, castrating dyke.

    …and unlike the poor dears you managed to score with, she’d walk away at the first sign of emotional abusiveness.

    “As for the rest of you telling me to be nice: I am nice to people who are nice to me.”

    I never told you to be nice. I told you to be real.

    …but I don’t think you’d know real if it squirted on your fingers.

    Like


  394. hey nic, is your family black American or do you have Carribean or African immigrant roots? Always love your posts.

    Like


  395. Hello, I’m glad someone’s getting something good from them…even if it’s just a good laugh. 🙂

    My family is Native American (Catawba) and African. On my father’s side, his great great grandfather was a slave. We don’t know where he came from, just that he was the only slave of an independent White woman…probably something like a personal attendant.

    My father’s mother though, has a weird history that she never shared much of with us. Officially, it’s like her family never existed until she was born. They are extremely dark people, and their names and surnames are Scandanavian. So we can guess things, but we’re not sure.

    My mom’s side is where the Catawba came from. Many Black people in North and South Carolina are mixed that way…and a few are just Catawba, who purposefully decided to be officially Black even though they could pass for White, before it was a federally recognized tribe.

    What’s interesting is that alot of the turmoil that plagues us now is a result of trying to fit the Catawba mentality into a typical tribal structure. It’s a collection of people from different tribes who joined into one nation, merged languages, mixed genes, and lived in smaller villages and clans that were spread out. It was more a collection of clans that were loyal to one another, than a tribe proper.

    The issues of who is what and to what degree, who owns what, and what a Catawba is, are relatively new, and still hotly debated. Most just give up and live our lives. One of the interesting things about the culture though, is that it seems built for independent thinkers. We didn’t all need to live in the same place, all wear the same things, etc. to consider ourselves a people.

    There’s also a consistent high amount of disdain for people who follow along with crowds and can’t think for themselves. A good bit of our cautionary tales are about the perils of following the wrong influences.

    Identity wise, I consider myself Black, but culturally, I’m closer to Catawba. When things ever got rough for me, the “flavor” of my coping strategies was more corn than cassava.

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  396. David Alexander,
    OT, out of pure curiosity but have you ever been with a prostitute? If not, would you ever do so? Finding a call girl with acrylic nails, heels and who acts in a very sexual manner shouldn’t be hard. Vegas baby.

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  397. Your posts aren’t just for laughs but are very inspiring.

    *hug*

    You could definitely write a fascinating game blog. As, indeed, could many of the regulars here.

    A question on BDSM: I once dated a guy who claimed not to be lifestyle but just liked dominating in the bedroom. When he tried to extend the fantasy role playing to other aspects of the relationship I balked and he backed down.

    However as time went on he got less respectful, demanded complete agreement in all circumstances and started to revel in saying niggling little things to make me feel insecure. And as far as not being lifestyle went I never saw him gracefully yield control or leadership to anyone in any context. The sex was great and although I’ve read that role playing is fine if your partner treats you respectfully when you’re clothed a perusal of Dan Savage’s column suggests that such male doms are the ec. aren’t last

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  398. Hello, the problem with my game blog is that I’d be teaching kids to start developing themselves sexually mid puberty rather than years too late for some things at 18. I don’t worry so much about being lynched. I actually posted a few articles awhile ago.

    Nobody was interested in it except the same people I communicate with in real life or blogs. Most of them didn’t need it.

    The people who need to know this stuff, parents who don’t want their kids to waste themselves, get pregnant, etc. are either caught up in the feministic free-for-all, or opposed to any kind of sex education. Neither feminists nor religious people want to read an essay on why one’s virginity is important that begins with a summary of reports of necrophiliac lab mice.

    Also, many people who have been damaged but may be salvageable are either in denial, or have been fed lies about whether or not they are damaged and how.

    …and speaking of which, the guy you were with isn’t really Dom because he doesn’t seem to be in control of himself. He may be a Top, but I wouldn’t describe a passive aggressive as Dominant. Doms are benevolent-aggressive, not passive aggressive.

    For many, it’s more than role play. A Dom is a natural leader in and out of the bedroom, but they also have to know when to follow and compromise just like any other leader. Also, a leader is a servant of their people, not the other way around. One should be leading in a positive direction.

    There is also a difference between a male and a female style of leadership. Though I don’t presume to know all the ins and outs of manhood, I do know that passive aggression is unmanly in a way that is a deal breaker in many D/s relationships. A sub would find that many times more intolerable than a relatively normal partner.

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  399. Interesting comments, Nicole. I’ve had the chance to observe the S&M world a bit up close and personal, but don’t have any actual longterm experience to be able to speak with any degree of authority on it.

    I just wish we all could learn to agree to disagree without all of the vitriol. This time of year brings back to me just how cruel the world can be in bodycount-terms; I’ve seen enough of that sort of thing to last a lifetime, if not two.

    I have no idea if you are indeed a lesbian or not, but I think there’s something to be said and learned about human sexuality from both the lesbian and gay male communities, even while I disagree philosophically with them. But then, I like to think of myself as a fairly openminded person. Simply listening does not mean that you automatically agree.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  400. I was half-asleep when I wrote my question, so I apologize if it was incoherent.

    This guy was a natural leader in many ways, albeit one who argued with anyone whom he believed to be usurping his position, but his insecurities led him to start berating my job, looks etc. the minute I began to move away even slightly from the relationship. And he knew me well enough to do so effectively.

    This is one reason I am so critical of negs. He tried to convince me that he was the only man who’d ever like me and that I was lucky to be with him even though he grabbed my hand even if I talked to a salesman at a shoe store. What was the worst is that how much he reveled, almost trembling with glee, when he said things to make me squirm with discomfort.

    Is this normal among Dom men, lifestyle and not? As I said Dan Savage implies that such men are aberrations, but he always publishes letters from women is D/s related relationships whose husbands/bfs are emotionally abusing them. I’m not saying this guy was emotionally abusive though it might have gotten to that if he geniunely believed I was cheating on him as he was hyper-paraniod about that and very insecure in his masculinity. This makes me very leery of D/s for all that the Dom men claim that the majority of Doms aren’t abusers.

    Also this guy was a fanatic about Game. Do any of the Game devotees know if it is disproportionately attractive to Doms?

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  401. OT, out of pure curiosity but have you ever been with a prostitute? If not, would you ever do so?

    David Alexander’s real life persona has never engaged in such services for the follow reasons:

    – fear of being caught and going to jail
    – fear of STDs
    – the high cost of said services when compared with one’s meager salary of $11K per year
    – feelings of guilt in having sex with a woman who really doesn’t find me attractive or alluring and would never have sex with me
    – the possibility of a scam pulled by a prostitute and her pimp or madame

    I’ve considered it on a few occasions, and despite having a hotel room all to myself in a airport hotel outside of SFO, I just couldn’t justify a prostitute. Besides, I didn’t have the time (and balls) to drive to Nevada to areas where it is legal.

    So despite the fact that I could get the exact girl that I want physically, I simply can’t go through with it.

    BTW, allegedly, my cousins were planning on sending a prostitute to solve my “virginity problem”, but that panned out once they discovered that I finally had sex.

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  402. she had a desire to act out the public sex scene from Crank

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  403. Hello, I think one reason Dan posts the emotional abuse letters is to keep people aware of the difference between Domination and emotional abuse.

    Domination will involve some degree of manipulation and imposition (for lack of a better word), but the line where abuse begins is pretty clear. If you have to do or say something unethical, dishonorable, or actually damaging to someone, to get what you want, then you’re overstepping.

    Every Dom falters at some point because being in charge doesn’t make anyone perfect, but they’re accountable just as in any other relationship style. You just don’t befoul your own table. If you do, you eat shite.

    Doms with any sense usually operate within a community, or at least have mentors and likeminded people to discuss these things with. It’s very rare for someone to have not been exposed to the issues, and this is one reason the abusive Dom is fairly easy to spot most of the time…but there are some who are abusers who think they’ll find easy targets in the BDSM community, or will get a free pass by saying that they’re into BDSM.

    Be careful of any “Dom” who claims not to be a lifestyler, but doesn’t accurately label themselves a Top. Dom, sub, and switch are terms that describe someone’s sexual orientation, and these people are in some way lifestyle. One doesn’t need to have or attend play parties every weekend and have a dungeon decorated basement to be a lifestyle BDSM’er. They don’t even need to be exclusively into BDSM.

    So a Top running around claiming to be Dom is a bad thing. It’s false advertisement, and indicative of a person not being willing to even study their craft.

    That sort of attitude among so-called Doms and subs is rampant here in Israel. Nobody can tell them anything. They know it all, and drama abounds.

    So your boyfriend who got off on non consensual emotional abuse was not a Dom…just an asshole. There are assholes everywhere but the norm is that Doms take their responsibilities and roles very seriously.

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  404. Nicole,
    It sounds like you are quite well versed in these matters. Are there are books etc that you would recommend?

    Thanks.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  405. DA saidInterestingly, judging by my friends and family, colour inheritance can be screwy. I’ve seen instances where two dark parents can have light skinned children due to the light-skin of the grandparents and great grandparents. While some mulatto families can have dark skinned offspring
    I’ve noticed too. I think it’s funny that Obama’s daughters are as light as he is. LOL They aren’t even medium brown. I’ve always thought that skin color and shape&size of facial features are to blk people what hair&eye color are to white people.

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  406. Looking forward to some book recs from Nicole.

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  407. Nicole, demonstrating her game by posting love letters to me at 2 in the morning on a weekend:
    “I sometimes come off as a castrating bitch to men who are less man than me, though I make no claims of being an example of manhood.”

    Vanity: thy name is bootface.

    You have nothing to teach a heterosexual of any gender: you’re broken. I used to think the fact that loudmouthed witches like yourself inevitably pipe up and contradict people who know what they’re talking about was some kind of sinister plot to create a generation of women as sexually dysfunctional as you are, but the fact of the matter is: you can’t help yourself. I’m sorry for you that you weren’t born with a dick. As a woman: you fail. Just a suggestion: the next time you are tempted to compose a 50 line epistle to Brother Lupo attempting to prove you have a penis, you might try clicking on the little glowing “Lupo” link.

    Brother Lupo teaching moment: any time a woman blathers on about what a “walking contradiction” she is: she is broken. That’s crazy lady talk.

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  408. Mike Blowhard,
    Yes, I’m waiting on Nicole as well. But in the meantime, I imagine a good starting point would be The Story of O; you know what, I’m gonna end up with a serious Erotica Library. Roissy’s Hedonism is starting to rub off on a Brotha, LOL.

    By the way, I’ve always been something of a fan of a huge tome called My Secret Life, a sex diary of a Victorian gentleman who used the pen name of “Walter”. Very interesting stuff from a variety of angles…ahem.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  409. I’ve always thought that skin color and shape&size of facial features are to blk people what hair&eye color are to white people.

    My nephew has pointed out that he like my mom, his older brother, and me are “red” while his other family members are “black”. Mind you, my mom and I despite coming from a culture where pointing out slight variances in skin colour are important for social classification never taught him this stuff. We suspect he learned it from his family who is from Alabama.

    White people just obsess about weight. Black people obsess about which one of us looks white, hence the remarks about “good hair”, “pretty noses”, and light skin.

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  410. Sorry for the lapse, Mu…had to replace old Bessie. She died this morning.

    I have never actually read a BDSM instruction manual. I came up the old school way…from the bottom. My first trainer broke me in at 17. He is probably one of the major reasons for my attitude towards life. I overcame many of my fears about trusting people that year.

    My first mentor as a Domme, when I was 19, was a mostly Gay man who taught me a great deal about men, women, and most of all, about honor and responsibility in the freak context. Folks have a tendency to go wild when the first get out there, and forget that throwing off convention doesn’t mean throwing away your values.

    Since then, I’ve learned mostly from discussions with more experienced people.

    Two books I’ve been told are good for the beginner are _Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns_ and _Different Loving_.

    Fiction that is a must-read for male and masculine or physical type Dommes is John Norman’s _Gor_ series. Although his views come through the stories as a bit overly partiarchal, he does address some realities about male/female relations that are worthy of note. It is one of the things that encouraged me to maintain a modest style of dress.

    If you’re going that direction, be aware that the generalizations abound on both sides. Some Doms are very patriarchal and some Dommes very matriarchal. Bear in mind that what works for some might not work well for all, and that gender itself is not so black and white. So just be prepared to see just about anything at all in the realm of consensual human relations.

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  411. Lupo kvetched, “Vanity: thy name is bootface.”

    Cowardice: thy name is Lupo.

    “You have nothing to teach a heterosexual of any gender: you’re broken.”

    Not by you, that’s for certain.

    “I used to think the fact that loudmouthed witches like yourself inevitably pipe up and contradict people who know what they’re talking about was some kind of sinister plot to create a generation of women as sexually dysfunctional as you are, but the fact of the matter is: you can’t help yourself.”

    Keep digging that hole. Maybe you’ll fool yourself into thinking that it really is impossible to make a woman have multiple orgasms with pelvic override.

    Then again, maybe it is impossible for you, but not for every man.

    “I’m sorry for you that you weren’t born with a dick.”

    I’m not.

    …but if I did have one, I’d make an instructional video and post it for you.

    As a matter of fact, I might ask a friend if he’s got any in the archives.

    “As a woman: you fail.”

    I don’t fail to have vaginal orgasms with and without a partner.

    “Just a suggestion: the next time you are tempted to compose a 50 line epistle to Brother Lupo attempting to prove you have a penis, you might try clicking on the little glowing “Lupo” link.”

    I didn’t see anything less pathetic there than what you post here.

    “Brother Lupo teaching moment: any time a woman blathers on about what a “walking contradiction” she is: she is broken. That’s crazy lady talk.”

    Like I said…if it keeps you warm at night, believe whatever you want.

    …but hating me isn’t going to make your girlfriend cum…at least not more than once. 😉

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  412. “but hating me isn’t going to make your girlfriend cum”

    Hating you would be like hating cholera; an unpleasant consequence of urban life, easily avoidable with proper hygiene. Seriously lard-botty; do you think anyone sane is impressed with your “expert dirty little bird” act? “Pelvic override?” Cowper glands on manual override, Sulu!

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  413. Lupo, I think I’m beginning to understand your confusion. Let me clear some things up for you:

    1. I could give a rat’s arse what impresses you. I’m just making sure that no guy out there gives up hope for themselves just because you’re a lazy shag.

    2. I may be an expert, but I am hardly dirty. If I was easy, and willing to have sex with people who don’t give a crap about me, I wouldn’t be posting here. I’d be getting laid.

    …and be having multiple vaginal orgasms by methods you claim are impossible.

    3. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, try staying out of grown folks’ conversations instead of trying to make others feel bad for knowing more than you.

    It’s called a book. Crack one open every once in awhile, or learn to keep your mouth shut and look pretty, bitch.

    You’re obviously far more dependent on your looks to get you by than I am. It kinda ruins it when a cute guy opens his mouth and turns out to be an ignorant dumbass.

    This, by the way, is why you need game…cause you damn sure don’t have talent.

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  414. Nicole,
    Thanks for the references, much appreciated. What do you think of the film “Secretary” assuming that you’ve seen it, and The Story Of O? (Which I have on order as we speak; should have it by this time next week)

    I do have a bit of direct firsthand experience of the BDSM community; I’ve mentioned it before in the Forum here, but I’ll briefly re-cap:

    Some years back I got into a relationship with a Sista who I soon found out was deeply into the S&M thing. She was a Sub and convinced me to attend a huge Masquerade “Fetish Ball” at one of Philly’s biggest nightclubs. We went and, it was one heck of an education.

    She explained some aspects of it to me, and since I’ve had the chance to discuss it with others-now that I think about it, all Women. Hmm. And insofar as I know, all Subs, wait, I knew one Sis who was a Domme (that’s the Dominatrix, right?).

    Anyway, I was told that the flick Secretary was a good, “safe” way to bring up themes like this to a mainstream audience/public, but also to underscore the fact that the BDSM philosophy is actually more line with Human Nature/Laws of the Universe than divergent from it/them. In other words, I was told, that BDSM, the undergirding philosophy/mechanics, I guess you could say, of it, is actually something that is naturally occuring in all living things/beings, including, of course, us.

    I’d heard of The Story Of O, but never read it until now, which seems to be a time of my life when all of these things are being given study time and examination. I don’t have any desire to actually get involved in the actual lifestyle itself (just like I don’t have any intention of using certain parts or aspects of Game as taught by Mystery, which I’ll explain at a later point); rather, I want to truly understand the theory and mindset, as well as the psychology, behind/underneath BDSM. Its my view that this dynamic is at play, sans all the trappings, in everyday relationships/marriages/hookups/etc.

    And yea, I’ll admit it-I kinda like the idea of Mu being thought of as a Mental Master.;) There is so much to learn.

    So again, thanks for the references. If there’s anything you might want to share here in the Forum from he standpoint I’ve mentioned above, please by all means do so; if not, feel free to email me on the sidelines.

    Thanks again!

    Salaam
    Mu

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  415. “You’re obviously far more dependent on your looks to get you by than I am. It kinda ruins it when a cute guy opens his mouth and turns out to be an ignorant dumbass.”

    Keep the belly laughs coming, icicle chooch. If you had bothered to “crack a book” on Brother Lupo, you’d know what he does for a living and why that’s one of the lamest insults I’ve received in the last decade. I happen to also be reputed as a handsome devil, but winning the genetic sweepstakes isn’t what makes me popular, nor is it the Ph.D. in atomic physics.

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  416. Mu, I’ve never seen _Secretary_ or _The Story of O_. I suppose, with all the opportunities I’ve had to watch more popular BDSM related films and such, I’ve been unconsciously avoiding them…perhaps due to fear of polluting the sample, so to speak.

    I’m glad you managed to navigate your way through the BDSM scene without being recruited. The fetish community is, to me, a nice place to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live there as a person who’s into variety. They say it’s not a race or competition, but well…that’s kind of like, “It’s what’s on the inside that matters.”

    The reality is the same as with any herd. If you’re not easily definable, you confuse people, and end up on the fringes just the same as you were in the vanilla world. My drill sergeant style earned me more than one look of horror from people who just didn’t get it. I had and still have no interest in emasculating men who choose to serve me. Someone who wants to be a sissy is fine, but I don’t think it’s required in order to be submissive.

    I’d rather watch a guy do yard work in a pair of tight shorts, gloves, and workboots, than to see him prancing around in my underwear…though that is cute, it’s speaking more to my inner princess playing dress-up than my inner Domme.

    You and whoever (is not a spammer and) likes are free to email me. Just so I don’t get accused of not reading my email, for the next day or two I’m restoring my old drives, so it might take that long for me to get back to people.

    …and Lupo, again you provide more material that proves why you need game, and why you are at this site despite your claims of not needing game. I’d send you a URL of another physicist who you could learn from, since you don’t want to listen to me, but I don’t like friends to inherit my pet fartknockers.

    Suffice to say, others have been where you’re standing…book-smart in one or two unrelated fields, but without the common sense to realize that intelligence and knowledge in one area does not mean that you know everything about everything.

    If you knew how to relate to women at all, I would probably be the easiest to get along with. As it is, even a woman you consider inferior to you doesn’t consider you worthy to lick her toes because you’d probably do it wrong, and blame her for it.

    Whatever you may have or may be, does not take anything from what I am. Your disliking me takes not a cent from my bank account, nor does it reduce my appeal, my beauty (however little), nor my sex drive and ability to achieve multiple orgasms.

    In fact, you’re a case in point when I warn the young, hot chicks I mentor, against getting involved with guys with the equivalent of “former fatty syndrome”…socially inept, self hating nerds who discover facial toner and the gym. Any true self improvement has to begin with acceptance of yourself, not denial or self pity. There’s nothing wrong with being a nerd, even a socially inept one, so long as you understand that it’s okay, and accept the price that all of us pay for being who and what we are. Play the cards you were dealt.

    Once that sinks in, you’ll have gotten one step closer to being an adult. Until then, you know where you can shove your Ph.D.

    Maybe you’ll have a multiple orgasm.

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  417. “Lupo, again you provide more material that proves why you need game, and why you are at this site despite your claims of not needing game. I’d send you a URL of another physicist who you could learn from, since you don’t want to listen to me, but I don’t like friends to inherit my pet fartknockers.”

    Whatever I get out of this website; the fact remains, nobody is gonna learn anything here from a fat dyke who doesn’t know how to fuck properly and types love letters to brother Lupo at 2am on a Friday night. Somehow, you seem to have a problem with this concept. You have nothing to teach anybody here, dumbass. You might as well lecture me on physics or automotive repair. Stick with being a bitter shrew: it works for you.

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  418. Lupo, let’s say for a moment that you’re right, and I am a fat dyke who doesn’t know how to fuck properly…

    Can you provide a rational argument against what I said that is based on medical science, neurology, and actual peer reviewed research on human sexuality?

    Histrionic hissy fits don’t prove points. Facts do.

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  419. “I believe he was pretty drunk himself. If that’s the case, I’m with Camille Paglia on the so-called date rape — the man is no more and no less responsible for a sex act than the woman, if they are both drunk.”

    No. If the woman is drunk but not comotose, and accepts sex, there should be absolutely no cause of legal action, criminal or civil against a man who fucks her. Whether or not he’s drunk.

    Secretly slipped in her drink roofies are a very different story.

    Being drunk is absolutely no responsibility cutter in the case of people (largely and certainly lawmaker in mind men) who commit intentional crimes when drunk. It’s no defense for accidental but criminally negligent auto and other accidents.

    Those that don’t know that haven’t been paying attention and that’s no excuse.

    It’s general knowledge that being drunk lowers inhibitions and often leads women (and men) to have sex in circumstances and with partners that they wouldn’t when sober. (Men fuck fatties they wouldn’t when sober. Women might/do also trade down, but mostly they drop (already low) emotional involvement requirements to fuck hottish, but maybe ok to be less hot, men when drunk.)

    So if you act like an unbelievable slut when drunk or very drunk but ambulating woman in some sports stadium bathroom, you’re 1) living out the fantasy of predatory males like me (in part and with limits), and 2) cannot justifiably blame anyone but yourself for the act or in actuality (since you loved the act) the fallout.

    Thank god there’s fallout still. In social shaming and firing her I mean. That to my mind was not obvious. Maybe that’s because I live in NYC.

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  420. I don’t see how this would be a big deal, betas get cheated all the time. The only difference in this situation is that she got caught in public. If it was somewhere else then no one would have ever known.

    Personally the name changing is much more betas. Why? Because you are betraying your ancestors and handing your balls to the wife. The linage is GONE and kids will have her LAST NAME! I guess it’s the culture… but it used to be that your last name was probably the most important thing. People judged you and classified you according to your last name. I would kill myself before giving up my last name. Truly pathetic dude, he should be ashamed.

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  421. I nominate the husband from that movie “The Horse Whisperer”. He was so supportive while wife fucks and sucks Redford, and then he takes her back. That guy makes me want to give him a shave with a pair of tweezers… what a beta dork.

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  422. Nice idea! keep up the good work. Beatles

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